McCain Dodges the Palin Question

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
Politics • Mon Dec 15, 2008 at 4:30 pm PST • Views: 206

John McCain enhances his maverick image by damning his former running mate with faint praise: McCain: I can’t promise to support Palin for president.

(CNN) — Sen. John McCain said Sunday he would not necessarily support his former running mate if she chose to run for president.

Speaking to ABC’s “This Week,” McCain was asked whether Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin could count on his support. “I can’t say something like that. We’ve got some great other young governors. I think you’re going to see the governors assume a greater leadership role in our Republican Party,” he said. He then mentioned governors Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota and Jon Huntsman of Utah.

McCain said he has “the greatest appreciation for Gov. Palin and her family, and it was a great joy to know them.”

“She invigorated our campaign” against Barack Obama for the presidency, he said.

McCain was pressed on why he can’t promise support for the woman who, just months ago, he named as the second best person to lead the nation. “Have no doubt of my admiration and respect for her and my view of her viability, but at this stage, again … my corpse is still warm, you know?” he replied.

Not that warm.

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1 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:31:38pm

Bitterness does not become him.

2 Randall Gross  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:31:53pm

McCain's endorsement? Is that followed by a "FWIW" ?

3 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:32:43pm

Senator McCain, go away.

4 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:32:48pm
5 Max Darkside  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:33:32pm

She doesn't need his endorsement. She's more powerful than he.

BTW, -7.5 F and there's DiHydrogen Monoxide crystals all over the ground. OMG.

6 CalBear84  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:33:52pm

GRRR!

7 winston06  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:34:01pm

What an awful creature...

8 TheMatrix31  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:34:43pm

Shut up John.

She was the only one with testicles in this whole race. Ironically, she was the only female.

Go Palin!

9 Wishing  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:35:02pm

Palin was way too conservative for McCain. He never deserved her.

10 Backstaber  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:35:17pm

And I only voted for you because of that woman. Seriously leave, John McCain, forever.

11 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:35:25pm
12 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:35:36pm

He is reminding me daily why I was NOT in his corner up to the point he selected Palin. Trying to think of something nice to say... he was really funny on SNL. In fact he was so funny, I think he should go ahead and pursue that as a career because despite my admiration for his service to our country, I am darn sick of hearing what is coming out of his mouth.

13 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:35:51pm

He had no confidence in his own VP pick. It was a doomed ticket.

14 Wishing  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:35:53pm

LOL buzz

15 LesLein  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:36:02pm

So typical. The erratic ungrateful grandstander only thinks of himself.

I'll repeat my prediction from yesterday. At some point in the next 4 years the GOP will implement a successful filibuster. It will be against a issue with little merit or popularity. McCain will make a deal to break the filibuster and give the Democrats cover.

16 Nevergiveup  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:36:16pm

re: #11 buzzsawmonkey

In other breaking news, John McCain reaches across the aisle to support Republicans.


Yeah, like that will ever happen?

17 Max Darkside  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:36:20pm

She should start a conservative party, since Republicans deserted conservatism. She's probably toast by R's and D's.

Party symbol would be the moose... heh... ok, no, the American Eagle would be better I suppose.

18 winston06  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:36:37pm

any one but McLame in 2010 AZ senate race

19 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:36:38pm
20 Pullus Iulius  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:36:49pm

There's ticking everyone off, and there's biting everybody around you like a mad dog. Senator McCain is getting awfully close to the latter.

21 conservativeChick  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:36:51pm

What a jerk.

22 CalBear84  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:37:08pm

“She invigorated resuscitated our campaign” against Barack Obama for the presidency, he said.

FIXED.

23 Wishing  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:37:09pm

re: #15 LesLein

So typical. The erratic ungrateful grandstander only thinks of himself.

I'll repeat my prediction from yesterday. At some point in the next 4 years the GOP will implement a successful filibuster. It will be against a issue with little merit or popularity. McCain will make a deal to break the filibuster and give the Democrats cover.

My guess is that it will be MUCH closer to 6 months.

24 winston06  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:37:13pm

re: #7 winston06

why the negative ding? LoL

25 summergurl  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:37:21pm

and that's why I did not vote for him but for Palin and against Obama--

26 winston06  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:37:26pm

re: #21 conservativeChick

indeed

27 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:37:28pm

re: #19 ploome hineni

Is he getting some special appointment from The One? Will he and Liebermen go off on some peace making junket? If so, can we give them Carter?

28 Randall Gross  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:37:31pm
McCain was pressed on why he can’t promise support for the woman who, just months ago, he named as the second best person to lead the nation. “Have no doubt of my admiration and respect for her and my view of her viability, but at this stage, again ... my corpse is still warm, you know?” he replied.


Meaning he plans to run in 2012? Good luck on that

29 Taqyia2Me  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:37:44pm

I prefer he NOT support Palin, it would diminish her conservative credentials, imho.

30 Ojoe  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:37:47pm

Well now I really think Palin was the only decent candidate of the 4.

Palin 2012.

31 JammieWearingFool  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:37:47pm

He's holding out for that VP nod after Biden is stricken by foot-in-mouth disease.

32 gop_patriot  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:37:54pm

If Palin is lucky, he'll not endorse or support her in any way.

If she's lucky, he'll just go back to kissing the Democrat's asses and trying to figure out more ways to trump the will of the people with more amnesty bills.

/RINO

33 Max Darkside  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:37:54pm

re: #17 Max Darkside

She's probably toast by R's and D's.


GRRR.. PIMF...

SHE WOULD TOAST the R's and D's.

/I an idiot, I is, um, r

34 rightymouse  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:37:56pm

One of my liberal friends gloatingly sent me this news link today - he actually likes McCain. I replied "I'm glad he lost". He didn't reply.

35 Wishing  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:37:58pm

re: #18 winston06

any one but McLame in 2010 AZ senate race

Hate to say this, but I would like to see his pants beat off him in his race. I sure dont want a Dem, but what's the difference?

36 wrenchwench  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:38:05pm

I wonder whether Palin would support him if he ran again.

37 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:38:12pm
38 x-wing  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:38:18pm

I wish Mac would do the honorable thing and switch to the Donkey party. Let's be rid of this clown once and for all. And hey Arizona, how about running a conservative against him in the next election.

39 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:38:42pm

re: #28 Thanos

He sure is doing a great job warming up to us real Republicans to make THAT happen!

///

40 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:38:42pm
41 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:38:43pm

This was exactly why I was not enthused about supporting mccain once he won the primaries need to ensure the nomination. He's not supportive of fellow republicans, and has gone out of his way to work against the party far too often.

It should come as no surprise that he'd snub a fellow republicans now. He's had YEARS of practice.

I supported him because of Sarah and that I was hopeful he was serious about reforming Washington. Now- I'm sick that I allowed him to bullshit me. I'm going to apologize to the republicans I know that stayed home or voted third party.

42 winston06  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:38:49pm

re: #35 Wishing

I'd rather a Dem to a RINO who back stabs his own party. I'd rather know the lines

43 VioletTiger  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:39:04pm

I think she would be better off without his endorsement. She probably knows it, too.

44 MisterCookie  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:39:08pm

To think I held my nose and still voted for this asshole...with candidates like this, we deserved to lose in 2008.

45 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:39:13pm

Senator McCain is a maverick douche nozzle.

46 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:40:03pm

re: #36 wrenchwench

If I were her, I would be tempted to say some UGLY things about that cat and the horse he rode in on. She is probably better than me in that respect, however.

47 dcbatlle  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:40:09pm

RINO

48 Max Darkside  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:40:33pm

re: #45 Jetpilot1101

Senator McCain is a maverick douche nozzle.

Now THAT's a new one!

/roflmao

49 vapig  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:40:36pm

She was the best thing about his ticket. I have to say though, if he did endorse her, it might well hurt her being the rino that he is.

50 Wishing  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:40:41pm

re: #36 wrenchwench

I wonder whether Palin would support him if he ran again.

As gracious as she is..probably.

51 winston06  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:40:51pm

re: #45 Jetpilot1101

an idiot, at best

52 winston06  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:41:00pm

re: #47 dcbatlle

enemy

53 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:41:04pm

Somebody doesn't want to keep their senate seat in 2010...

54 Joan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:41:14pm

The forever campaign. I'm so sick of hearing from McCain, and honestly, I'm sure I will vote Palin in 2012. We don't know yet what we will need on the ticket. A plague on both their houses for naked, ambitious self-promotion. I hate the sight of Hucklebee too. It is over. Get over it. Let us get on with life.

Stop jumping up and down and pleading and crying, you'll go home with no treats and no supper for your trouble. Quiet! That's not how we behave in public!

55 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:41:23pm

McCain for Retirement '10!

56 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:41:28pm
57 LesLein  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:41:36pm

re: #42 winston06

I'd rather a Dem to a RINO who back stabs his own party. I'd rather know the lines

At least the Dems have the courage to stab the GOP in the stomach.

58 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:41:58pm

re: #54 Joan

I wish Hannity would stop giving lip service to Shuckabee. He makes my skin crawl.

59 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:42:02pm

We were told he was a man of honor.

I seriously question that now.

60 winston06  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:42:06pm

re: #57 LesLein

exactly!

61 winston06  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:42:22pm

re: #59 Sharmuta

what honor?

62 nyc redneck  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:42:25pm

is the crazy old coot so full of anger and jealousy because he knows he would have failed miserably w/out sarah palin on the ticket.
does he know most people were voting for her?
he is really showing what a small person he is.
he is very petty.
he does not understand the concept of allegiance and integrity.

63 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:42:54pm
64 bosforus  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:42:55pm
McCain Dodges the Palin Question...

...like Bush dodges shoes.
Just a random thought, not to get too off topic. Imagine if Bush had caught that first shoe and started yelling at the reporter. What a message that would have sent. Granted, that's not very Bush-like, but it would've been brilliant.

65 Wishing  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:43:12pm

re: #55 jcm

McCain for Retirement '10!! '08!

Fixt.

66 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:43:19pm

re: #12 ArmyWife

He is reminding me daily why I was NOT in his corner up to the point he selected Palin. Trying to think of something nice to say... he was really funny on SNL. In fact he was so funny, I think he should go ahead and pursue that as a career because despite my admiration for his service to our country, I am darn sick of hearing what is coming out of his mouth.

I'm with you.

67 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:43:32pm

re: #5 Max Darkside

She doesn't need his endorsement. She's more powerful than he.

BTW, -7.5 F and there's DiHydrogen Monoxide crystals all over the ground. OMG.

No, they are fluffy-white global warming crystals (tm WLN)

68 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:43:33pm

re: #56 Iron Fist

Like I said- he's bitter. We loved her more than him and he hates her for it.

69 DEZes  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:43:41pm

Oh he could never bother supporting Palin, when he is so busy licking Obamas boots!

70 nyc redneck  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:44:08pm

he is a misguided old fool.
that is the best that can be said abt. him at this point.

71 dcbatlle  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:44:51pm

McCain's busy ingratiating himself with the Liberal media again.

72 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:45:04pm

Just go away already, John.

You've done your damage already.

73 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:45:10pm

John McCain: The Democrats' Favorite Republican

74 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:45:10pm

Someone should put a size 10 steel toe up is ass. Maybe that will jar him back to reality and he'll realize knifing his own party in the back really makes him look bad.

75 Nevergiveup  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:45:20pm

It's so disappointing on all levels. He served his country honorably. Now he should just go away.

76 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:45:24pm

re: #62 nyc redneck

is the crazy old coot so full of anger and jealousy because he knows he would have failed miserably w/out sarah palin on the ticket.
does he know most people were voting for her?
he is really showing what a small person he is.
he is very petty.
he does not understand the concept of allegiance and integrity.

He has to know. Campaign donations went wayyy up once he announced her as VP pick. He must know that whatever support he got, he got because of Palin. And maybe that's why he's so bitter and angry.

77 vapig  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:45:26pm

re: #41 Sharmuta

This was exactly why I was not enthused about supporting mccain once he won the primaries need to ensure the nomination. He's not supportive of fellow republicans, and has gone out of his way to work against the party far too often.

It should come as no surprise that he'd snub a fellow republicans now. He's had YEARS of practice.

I supported him because of Sarah and that I was hopeful he was serious about reforming Washington. Now- I'm sick that I allowed him to bullshit me. I'm going to apologize to the republicans I know that stayed home or voted third party.

If I recall correctly, you weren't fooled. Like the rest of us, you had the same choice of voting democrat or socialist. That's not much of a choice but at least McCain seemed to have genuine love of country. Unlike the other candidate.

78 Joan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:45:54pm

re: #54 Joan

I'm not sure I will vote Palin in 2012.

PIMF

79 Empire1  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:46:16pm

Sheesh -- it was Sarah I voted for. McCain was something I was stuck with to get her, and unfortunately he messed up big-time.

80 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:46:21pm

Damn you John! Sarah fought harder for your victory than you did- and this is how you repay her?! You disgust me.

81 LesLein  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:46:31pm

One of McCain's problems was that he doesn't have any experience opposing Democrats. He should have pretended that Obama was a Republican. It would have been a GOP landslide.

82 jumplandpackrepeat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:46:40pm

Looks like Johnny Boy borrowed Nobama's bus.

83 Taqyia2Me  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:46:44pm

How come I smell Colin Powell when talk turns to McCain, and vice-versa?

84 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:46:45pm
85 nyc redneck  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:46:57pm

at this point, how could anyone trust mccain.

86 CalBear84  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:47:09pm

re: #64 bosforus

...like Bush dodges shoes.
Just a random thought, not to get too off topic. Imagine if Bush had caught that first shoe and started yelling at the reporter. What a message that would have sent. Granted, that's not very Bush-like, but it would've been brilliant.

Caught it, took a full wind-up and nailed him right between the eyes with it! Now that's news worth watching!

87 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:48:02pm

re: #58 ArmyWife

I wish Hannity would stop giving lip service to Shuckabee. He makes my skin crawl.

I can't even listen to Hannity anymore. He continually repeats himself day after day, about how he was poor growing up, his parents couldn't pay for his college, he had to drop and get a job when he ran out of money, blah...blah...blah.

And his incessant use of the phrase "et cetera, et cetera" drove me up the wall.

88 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:48:21pm

re: #56 Iron Fist

fucking McCain is trying to proove that my distrust of him was merited. The fucker is a RINO at best. He doesn't even pretend to being a real Republican. Motherfucker'd better not run again. I voted for the cocksucker because I considered the alternative worse. I still believe that to be the case.

But his picking Palin was the goddamn only thing that he really did right in his pathetic campaign.

So of course, the motherfucker's dissin' her. He woudn't say fucking shit if he had a mouthful of it if it meant saying anything bad about a fucking Democrat. OTOH, it's always open season on Republicans. For Mccain, it always will be.

I'm ready for a good old fashioned purge...this kind of stuff only serves to to illustrate the dire situation the GoP is in...breakout the pitchforks

89 nyc redneck  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:48:31pm

we can't let the msm pick our candidate for pouts ever again.

90 LesLein  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:48:34pm

McCain picked Palin because he needed a Republican to balance the ticket.

91 Taqyia2Me  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:48:48pm

re: #87 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

I can't even listen to Hannity anymore. He continually repeats himself day after day, about how he was poor growing up, his parents couldn't pay for his college, he had to drop and get a job when he ran out of money, blah...blah...blah.

And his incessant use of the phrase "et cetera, et cetera" drove me up the wall.

He also gives WAY too much air time to Buchanan.

92 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:49:13pm

re: #85 nyc redneck

at this point, how could anyone trust mccain.

The Roi had it right from the beginning.
Like Killgore, he was going to sit out this election.
I talked him into voting, and honestly, glad of it, people should vote.
This was McCain's last hurrah - there will not be another presidential race for him. Palin campaigned better, and whatever support he had, much of it came to him because of her. He is a bitter, angry, old man. Kind of like Andy Rooney.

93 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:49:43pm

re: #56 Iron Fist

I am struck by a thought after reading this. McCain isn't so much a maverick as he is a m f'er.

94 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:49:48pm

Jon McCain is a gaseous pontificating windbag that puts Lautenberg to shame. We are all dumber for listening to him. Please John, do us all a favor and SHUT THE F$@& UP!

95 Killian Bundy  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:50:01pm

Pretty hard to believe he was actually the GOP nominee.

/hey, wha happen?

96 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:50:10pm

re: #41 Sharmuta

This was exactly why I was not enthused about supporting mccain once he won the primaries need to ensure the nomination. He's not supportive of fellow republicans, and has gone out of his way to work against the party far too often.

It should come as no surprise that he'd snub a fellow republicans now. He's had YEARS of practice.

I supported him because of Sarah and that I was hopeful he was serious about reforming Washington. Now- I'm sick that I allowed him to bullshit me. I'm going to apologize to the republicans I know that stayed home or voted third party.

I did not vote this year...first time and it really bothered me for a while...I'm cool with it now especially since NM was blown out again

97 winston06  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:50:22pm

McCain is back in his politician suits.

98 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:50:23pm

He did nothing, and she did everything, and this is how he repays her. If that's not damning with faint praise!

99 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:50:34pm

re: #65 Wishing

Fixt.

His Senate term is up in '10 IIRC.

Sooner would be better.

100 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:50:38pm
101 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:50:42pm
102 Ceemack  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:50:43pm

re: #56 Iron Fist
Y'know, if we wanted to read that kind of language, we could go to Daily Kos.

103 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:51:21pm
104 Cato the Elder  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:51:30pm

Why should he support her when she cost him the election?

105 vapig  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:51:33pm

re: #89 nyc redneck

we can't let the msm pick our candidate for pouts ever again.

It wasn't just the MSM. It was independants and dems who showed up at the polls and put him in there for us. It worked and I'm not sure there's anything we can do about that in the future.

106 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:51:36pm

re: #96 albusteve

I did not vote this year...first time and it really bothered me for a while...I'm cool with it now especially since NM was blown out again

Frankly- had Hillary won the nomination, I was considering voting for her because I figured better the devil I knew than the devil I didn't.

Just more proof you can't trust mavericks.

107 PAgirlinNC  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:52:12pm

What an ass jacker.

108 nyc redneck  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:52:19pm

re: #76 reine.de.tout

He has to know. Campaign donations went wayyy up once he announced her as VP pick. He must know that whatever support he got, he got because of Palin. And maybe that's why he's so bitter and angry.

isn't it annoying? this ungrateful jealous old coot. i'm thinking he is not a decent person and he doesn't see us as his "friends".

109 ciaospirit  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:52:48pm

"was"?

McCain said he has “the greatest appreciation for Gov. Palin and her family, and it was a great joy to know them.”

110 Wishing  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:52:59pm

re: #84 Iron Fist

He was still better than the fucking One™, but only by comparison. Hopefully the Right will learn a lesson from this godforsaken election and not split their fucking votes what, five ways?

And only Republicans should be able to vote in a Republican Primary. This letting the Democrats pick our nominee is fucking nuts. It is certainly a way to guarentee that we won't win.

Ok here is my question to the floor:

What can we do NOW to change election law to protect the primaries and make sure another election is NOT STOLEN?

111 TheMatrix31  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:53:18pm

re: #104 Cato the Elder

Why should he support her when she cost him the election?

LOL what?

112 DEZes  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:53:20pm

re: #74 Jetpilot1101

Someone should put a size 10 steel toe up is ass. Maybe that will jar him back to reality and he'll realize knifing his own party in the back really makes him look bad.

I hope its a ladies shoe, And Palin's foot is in it. ;)

113 nyc redneck  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:53:44pm

re: #105 vapig

It wasn't just the MSM. It was independants and dems who showed up at the polls and put him in there for us. It worked and I'm not sure there's anything we can do about that in the future.

we can stop the dems and independents from voting in our primaries.

114 jumplandpackrepeat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:53:46pm

re: #58 ArmyWife

I wish Hannity would stop giving lip service to Shuckabee. He makes my skin crawl.

I agree...he creeps me out, as does his son, David (his picture gives me a baaad vibe). That whole dog-hanging incident had my creep-dar alarmss going off.

115 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:53:49pm

re: #103 buzzsawmonkey

It will not be popular to say this here--especially not in this thread--but had Palin acquitted herself better in the Couric interview she might possibly have dragged McCain across the finish line. That interview, like it or not, seriously damaged her, and (partially) deflated the lift she definitely gave to the campaign.

Part of it, I suspect, was that she adhered to the extremely lame McCain Campaign talking points. I have to wonder whether her halting and in some cases vacuous responses were due to an attempt to remember and cleave to the empty buzzwords that McCain relied on, or due to the "lack of preparation" alleged, post-campaign, by a bunch of disgruntled and disloyal staffers.

Well, perhaps it isn't popular, but it's true.
She seemed stilted, off-balance during that interview. I think she was being "over-managed", and if they had just let her be herself, she would perhaps have done a better job. Water under the bridge.

But for McCain to show her this kind of disrespect is just awful.

116 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:54:07pm

re: #103 buzzsawmonkey

Yes, she should have gone maverick and just spoke her mind. Let the McCain staff fume about their stupid buzzwords after the fact.

117 Joan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:54:10pm

re: #76 reine.de.tout

He has to know. Campaign donations went wayyy up once he announced her as VP pick. He must know that whatever support he got, he got because of Palin. And maybe that's why he's so bitter and angry.

Thanks for expressing this in a way I can sign on to, reine. I am sick of McCain, and feel heartsick at his constant sycophancy towards the media, towards the Dems, Obama.

Still, he's a braver person than I am, and unlike myself, found the strength to make a choice to stay and suffer in order to fulfill his duty honorably. I would have pushed to the head of the line for early release, found a way to square it with myself.

It feels awful even to look at him now.

118 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:54:15pm
119 Wishing  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:54:28pm

re: #103 buzzsawmonkey

I agree with your assessment: she was trying to remember who to PRETEND to be. Once she broke free of talking points, she was the clear winner, hands down.

120 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:54:50pm
121 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:54:54pm

re: #100 Iron Fist

I took issue with his ethical "challenges". Something must be in the Arkansas Governor Mansion water.

122 tackle  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:54:54pm
I think you’re going to see the governors assume a greater leadership role in our Republican Party,” he said. He then mentioned governors Tim Pawlenty of Minnesota and Jon Huntsman of Utah.


Why does McCain (and others) keep mentioning Hunstman as a future leader of the GOP? He's a nice guy and all, but he's moderate at best and has disappointed many conservatives in Utah. Wait, I think I just answered my own question.

123 kcladderman  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:55:02pm

re: #103 buzzsawmonkey

You are more than likely right about that.

124 ciaospirit  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:55:36pm

re: #105 vapig

It wasn't just the MSM. It was independants and dems who showed up at the polls and put him in there for us. It worked and I'm not sure there's anything we can do about that in the future.

It was primarily the MSM. The independents showed up with the MSM talking points.

125 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:55:42pm

re: #106 Sharmuta

Frankly- had Hillary won the nomination, I was considering voting for her because I figured better the devil I knew than the devil I didn't.

Just more proof you can't trust mavericks.

my common sense just went all askew and I came to terms with it the best way I could...I could not have voted for HC but I get your drift...like Buzz just said maybe Palin could have done better with the media but even so I never felt good about any off it...I'm enormously disappointed with the whole thing frankly...

126 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:56:03pm

John McCain's constant spitting on republicans is what cost him the election.

He just can't face the fact that he made a bed for himself and was made to lie in it. He's angry at Sarah for this when he should be looking in the mirror. Asshole.

I never trusted the guy before. Why, oh WHY didn't I heed myself?

127 vapig  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:56:17pm

re: #100 Iron Fist

Yeah, I've never liked Huckabee either. He had some conservative positions (like his stance on gun control), but his Big Government, big spending, fiscally Liberal streak just plain sucks.

Let's hope he takes a pass in 2012.

My first choice was Fred Thompson - but he ws a no show. My second choice was Duncan Hunter. But by the time the primary got to my state McCain had already been chosen. I voted Hunter anyway, because I loathed McCain THAT much.

I considered not voting until he picked Palin. So this betrayal is damning and just sour grapes. He always was a graceless loser! Look what he did to America in the last 8 years for us chosing Bush. Do you really think he's going to be any less vindictive now?

Watch - he will side with the dems on every one of their pet issues to screw America over.

128 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:56:44pm

re: #104 Cato the Elder

Why should he support her when she cost him the election?

because it's the right thing to do as a conservative?

129 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:56:45pm

re: #122 tackle
DING DING DING

McCain can't bear the thought of a real Reagan conservative in our party. It makes McCain's schmuckiness so much the more evident.

130 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:56:56pm

re: #125 albusteve

It's just that I knew what we'd get from Hillary.

Who knows what one will get with a maverick.

131 realwest  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:57:02pm

Hey Y'all - just a drive by (on my way to dinner!) sorta OT comment .
I wrote a polite letter to MSNBC criticizing the shoe throwing "journalist" - I said that while the War in Iraq has undoubtedly been unpopular with a lot of folks, that "reporter" and all those (which was everyone to that point in the feedback section) who supported throwing the shoe, should try to remember that MOST of the Iraqi's who were murdered in Iraq were murdered by the "freedom fighters" not bey US or Coalition Forces.That without President Bush and the US and Coalition forces who went into Iraq with authorization from Congress to enforce some 17 UN Security Council Resolutions which Saddam had violated, that "journalist" wouldn't have had the freedom to throw those shoes and that folks ought to remember that when they cheer this "reporter".
Needless to say, they didn't see fit to publish my letter.
I was SHOCKED!
Almost as shocked as when I heard McCain not support Palin more than he did, especially after SHE supported HIM with great vigor and resolve.
Anyway, hope to see you all later!

132 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:57:04pm

re: #102 Ceemack

Y'know, if we wanted to read that kind of language, we could go to Daily Kos.

A tip for you...

Iron Fist
Registered since: Jun 15, 2004 at 1:19 pm
No. of comments posted: 21,451

Ceemack
Registered since: Dec 24, 2006 at 2:47 pm
No. of comments posted: 527

133 TheMatrix31  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:57:32pm

re: #103 buzzsawmonkey

It will not be popular to say this here--especially not in this thread--but had Palin acquitted herself better in the Couric interview she might possibly have dragged McCain across the finish line. That interview, like it or not, seriously damaged her, and (partially) deflated the lift she definitely gave to the campaign.

Part of it, I suspect, was that she adhered to the extremely lame McCain Campaign talking points. I have to wonder whether her halting and in some cases vacuous responses were due to an attempt to remember and cleave to the empty buzzwords that McCain relied on, or due to the "lack of preparation" alleged, post-campaign, by a bunch of disgruntled and disloyal staffers.

While I agree she was handcuffed by the McCain camp...

Do you really think ONE interview would have made up the 6%difference?

134 kcladderman  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:57:36pm

re: #104 Cato the Elder

Why should he support her when she cost him the election?

Oh is that what cost him the election?

135 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:57:49pm

re: #117 Joan

Thanks for expressing this in a way I can sign on to, reine. I am sick of McCain, and feel heartsick at his constant sycophancy towards the media, towards the Dems, Obama.

Still, he's a braver person than I am, and unlike myself, found the strength to make a choice to stay and suffer in order to fulfill his duty honorably. I would have pushed to the head of the line for early release, found a way to square it with myself.

It feels awful even to look at him now.

A person can be strong and honorable in some areas of his life, but wrong in other areas.

I also think his political career has had a negative effect. Politicians must be flexible, it's part and parcel of getting things done in a group of people who all have completely different views and opinions, but I think McCain got into the habit of going overboard.

136 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:58:13pm
137 Killian Bundy  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:59:21pm

Sources: Obama chooses Chicago schools chief

President-elect Barack Obama has chosen Chicago schools chief Arne Duncan to serve as education secretary, people with knowledge of the decision said Monday.

/well, what could possibly go wrong with that choice?

138 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:59:22pm

re: #130 Sharmuta

It's just that I knew what we'd get from Hillary.

Who knows what one will get with a maverick.

I just cant stand the bitch...she's too dirty for this hayseed

139 PAgirlinNC  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:59:22pm

Palin had to endure the most vile, evil, disgusting barrage of hatefulness from the MSM and the left. And she endured it with grace and class. Which is more than I can say for McCain. He didn't even have the decency to defend her and her family during or after the campaign. He was too busy trying to be politically correct to his opponent...

140 jamie  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 4:59:51pm

Considering that we haven't even sworn in the next President, don't you think it's perfectly appropriate to hold off on an endorsement, at least until after the 2010 midterms?

141 Wishing  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:00:01pm

re: #136 Iron Fist

Photo ID for voters is a must. Anyone who is against it is pro voter fraud, and we need to make sure that the public understands that. No votes for non-citizens, and no votes for the dead.

And drop the hammer on voter fraud wherever we find it.

Those steps alone would bring us a good deal closer not only in Presidential politics, but down the ticket as well.

Ok I 100% agree...at what level must this law be enacted? Is this on state or fed level?

142 DEZes  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:00:02pm
143 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:00:05pm

Here's why many had to "hold their nose" to vote for McCain. BLECH!

144 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:00:14pm
145 kcladderman  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:00:18pm

re: #119 Wishing

I agree with your assessment: she was trying to remember who to PRETEND to be. Once she broke free of talking points, she was the clear winner, hands down.

yea I think a lot of Palins supporters were a little disappointed with that interview. It did not show the real Sarah Palin.

146 Joan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:00:39pm

re: #114 jumplandpackrepeat

I agree...he creeps me out, as does his son, David (his picture gives me a baaad vibe). That whole dog-hanging incident had my creep-dar alarmss going off.

! What? What dog hanging incident?

147 Bobblehead  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:01:09pm

I think he's jealous that Sarah's popularity far exceeds his own. What a jerk.

148 lesbianrainforest  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:01:23pm

I remember getting dinged down in a post just prior to the election for calling this POS a POS. Really had no idea then just how stinky this guy is. I'm glad the other guy won and I'm dead serious.

149 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:01:55pm

re: #133 TheMatrix31

Though I wouldn't hang my hat on this interview being "the cause", it certainly had a deleterious affect. Had Biden or The One's 57 states been given the same due, we might be having other conversations right now.

We had crap for candidates on both sides. There has to be better out there. I shudder to think there are worse.

150 Wishing  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:02:14pm

re: #137 Killian Bundy

Sources: Obama chooses Chicago schools chief

/well, what could possibly go wrong with that choice?

Duncan spent a great deal of his free time at his mother's center tutoring children and sharpening his basketball skills with the neighborhood children.

151 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:02:14pm

re: #144 buzzsawmonkey

The Couric interview was The One Major Interview that Palin got. It went badly--quite badly--and the cloud hung over her for the entire remainder of the campaign. By all accounts, she connected well with live audiences--and was even able to mouth that endless "maverick" and "Wall Street/Main Street" crap without puking or even grimacing, which I would declare a feat of grace indeed. But she never got another serious interview which would allow her to recover from the damage the Couric session inflicted on her.

I really really hate to agree with you on this one...it bodes ill for the whole country...one interview possibly sinks an election...good grief

152 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:02:22pm

re: #148 lesbianrainforest

I remember getting dinged down in a post just prior to the election for calling this POS a POS. Really had no idea then just how stinky this guy is. I'm glad the other guy won and I'm dead serious.

I voted for McCain knowing what he was.

Better a Rhino than a Marxist.

153 J.S.  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:02:22pm

re: #103 buzzsawmonkey

I had the impression (after the election) that Palin had been sabatoged by her own staffers...(for whatever reasons...--getting too much attention? jealous about her "star power"? apparently they kept insisting that she go out and do interviews with hostile media types, as opposed to doing interviews with friendlier sorts..)

154 kcladderman  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:02:26pm

re: #140 jamie

Considering that we haven't even sworn in the next President, don't you think it's perfectly appropriate to hold off on an endorsement, at least until after the 2010 midterms?

Of course not if we are going to follow the time line of the last election there is only a little over one hundred days until the next election starts.

155 TheMatrix31  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:02:30pm

re: #137 Killian Bundy

Sources: Obama chooses Chicago schools chief

/well, what could possibly go wrong with that choice?

I'd love to post this on my Facebook page. Are there any direct statistics, articles, etc to show just how BAD the Chicago education system is run?

156 songbird  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:02:54pm

re: #100 Iron Fist

Yeah, I've never liked Huckabee either. He had some conservative positions (like his stance on gun control), but his Big Government, big spending, fiscally Liberal streak just plain sucks.

Let's hope he takes a pass in 2012.

My Dem friends here in NM say Huckabee could have beaten Obama handily.

157 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:02:58pm

Good thing you won't be running in 2012 John. Please go back to being useless.

158 stuiec  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:03:01pm

Why is everyone so angry that McCain isn't passing on the loser's mantle to Palin? I mean, if he had won, was coming to the end of a successful term and was asked if he endorsed VP Palin as his successor, his reticence would be petty and vile. But seeing as he lost, is his endorsement worth a warm bucket of spit?

159 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:03:08pm

Only a campaign as messed up as McCain's could have had an asset like Palin handed to them, and still choked.

That said, a major problem was still the inability to work around the MSM to get information out. How many people voted who had never heard one of the valid strikes against The One?

160 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:03:25pm
161 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:03:54pm

re: #142 DEZes

Thanks! I've been wanting to find a copy of that poster. :-)

162 wolfie  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:03:59pm

Well, it's all politics. I don't think you can expect McCain or any other Republican to endorse or even seem to be endorsing a candidate for 2012 now, hence the evasive replies.
I was much more ticked off at McCain's silence when Palin was being slandered immediately after the election.

163 Wishing  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:04:15pm

re: #150 Wishing

Duncan spent a great deal of his free time at his mother's center tutoring children and sharpening his basketball skills with the neighborhood children.

LINK

More than just a neighbor of the president-elect, he's a basketball chum who was co-captain of Harvard's hoops squad.

164 CapeCoddah  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:04:16pm

McCain did not deserve to win, he never worked for it. Any support he got was because of Sarah Palin, and as pathetic as his campaign was, we do have him to thank for introducing her to the country. He did not lose the election because of her, she lost the election because of him and his namby pamby politically correct bullshit.

165 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:04:25pm

re: #138 albusteve

I just cant stand the bitch...she's too dirty for this hayseed

And no where have I said anything to the contrary of that. Just that I knew what I would be in for with her.

166 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:04:29pm

re: #158 stuiec

I don't care if he endorses her. I care that he is implying he doesn't.

167 kcladderman  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:04:32pm

re: #141 Wishing

Ok I 100% agree...at what level must this law be enacted? Is this on state or fed level?

It is the states responsibility to make election laws for their state. The Feds need to stay out.

168 DEZes  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:04:39pm

re: #161 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Glad I helped.

169 Jamie  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:04:46pm

re: #141 Wishing

Ok I 100% agree...at what level must this law be enacted? Is this on state or fed level?

Probably state. US Code is remarkably quiet on election law.

170 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:04:57pm

re: #157 NYCHardhat

Good thing you won't be running in 2012 John. Please go back to being useless.

When did he ever take a break from that?

171 FrogMarch  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:05:01pm

while I really like Palin - I think she needs to Govern Alaska for a few years. She was thrown into the political piranha tank with little national experience (and a hostile unprofessional pro-Obama press) -- with the weight of John McCain's campaign on her shoulders. She did as well as anyone considering the circumstances, but now she must mature as a politician. There is a level of sophistication needed to appeal to a wider swath of people. Still, John McCain should show some class here. and he's not.

Certainly Obama might be a left-wing disaster, but when McCain opens his mouth, I don't feel so bad about McCain not winning.

btw - Palin was the only person with the guts to mock Obama. (/how dare she!) She gets huge courage points from me for that. She may have screwed up a few interviews - but she was brave.

172 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:05:12pm
173 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:05:25pm

re: #155 TheMatrix31

I'd love to post this on my Facebook page. Are there any direct statistics, articles, etc to show just how BAD the Chicago education system is run?

Billions in debt and a 40% grad rate.

That's plenty.

174 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:05:28pm
175 Nevergiveup  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:05:30pm

re: #152 jcm

I voted for McCain knowing what he was.

Better a Rhino than a Marxist.

I went to bed at 6:00 PM election night. Enough said.

176 stuiec  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:05:31pm

BTW, same goes for Colin Powell. Call me old-fashioned, but I think that one prerequisite for dictating policy to the Republican Party as a self-labeled Republican is actually endorsing and voting for the Republican Presidential candidate in the general election.

177 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:05:37pm

re: #102 Ceemack

Y'know, if we wanted to read that kind of language, we could go to Daily Kos.

Then why don't you?

178 maddogg  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:05:44pm

McCain's support and 75 cents will get you a cup of decalf...

179 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:05:56pm

re: #163 Wishing

Which, of course, makes one distinctly qualified to be education secretary.

I am going to wake up, right?

180 rightymouse  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:06:03pm

re: #137 Killian Bundy

Sources: Obama chooses Chicago schools chief


/well, what could possibly go wrong with that choice?

I'm glad my kid is in a private school.

181 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:06:13pm

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Aaaahhh! Aaaahhh!

*running around in frustration, knowing this is probably inevitable*

182 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:06:52pm

re: #170 Sharmuta

When did he ever take a break from that?

When he suspended his campaign in order to bail us out.
///

183 Airborn Swine  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:07:26pm

I voted for Palin, primarily to preserve her viability as a national figure, with the secondary bonus of getting John McCain out of the Senate before he could do any more damage.

McCain seriously needs to sit down and shut up.

184 ciaospirit  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:07:33pm

re: #152 jcm

I voted for McCain knowing what he was.

Better a Rhino than a Marxist.

Absolutely. That's why I made the effort for McCain. We may never be able to undo the majority of Obama's socialist policies once he gets them in. The media is painting him as centrist. Bull shit. Another ploy to keep the sheeple sheeping.

185 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:07:34pm

re: #174 taxfreekiller

Get out, join the local party, go to the meetings, join the Republican mens or womens clubs, get on committees, become a prescient chair, get to be a county, state or national delegate. Get on candidate selection committees, get on the platform committee, get on the state party rules committee. Do something like that to stop the ID ones who now rule in Texas, in Penn. Arlen Spector has got to go, in Nevada some one needs to get the R's to get their act together and run a real deal and get that little tart Harry Reid out of our Senate. You guys in Mass. what the hell Kennedy and Kerry, what in the hell is wrong with you, are you all on the dole or what. Shummer is a shame and disgrace to each one of us.

like that
Stand up fight back, just do something.

McCain and the rest of them are giving you the middle finger live on TV .

I intend to, but I'm not giving the Republican party another penny until they start acting like Republicans (which I don't think we will ever see again).

There will be a civil war, with in 20 years.

186 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:07:57pm
187 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:08:01pm

re: #181 EmmmieG

Does she live in New York? Or just shop there?

188 stuiec  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:08:02pm

re: #166 ArmyWife

I don't care if he endorses her. I care that he is implying he doesn't.

"Not weak-willed, bipartisan-obsessive and fawning enough to win McCain's endorsement."

Sounds like a campaign slogan to me!

189 Wishing  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:08:14pm
190 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:08:16pm
191 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:08:36pm

re: #165 Sharmuta

And no where have I said anything to the contrary of that. Just that I knew what I would be in for with her.

I dont imagine you would have openly endorsed her 'pleasantries'...I know what you mean...it was a very tough call yet I dont think I copped out...voting for Mcain was a thing people had to do...you did the right thing imo

192 Joan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:08:36pm

re: #126 Sharmuta

I don't know about you, but for myself--I voted McCain as a place holder, a hold the line candidate, not a Reagan Revolution. I never wanted to let Obama anywhere near the levers of power. That's a good reason, even when McCain was such a zombie.

193 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:08:41pm

re: #137 Killian Bundy

Sources: Obama chooses Chicago schools chief

/well, what could possibly go wrong with that choice?

We know CAC was used push Ayers agenda into Chicago public schools. And that Chicago schools cooperated with this effort.

194 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:09:18pm

re: #185 Walter L. Newton

There will be a civil war, with in 20 years.

Sooner if the national debt gets to the point that we cannot afford the interest.

/Won't be the first one generated by such a thing, I think that's what happened in pre-revolutionary France.

195 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:09:25pm

re: #187 ArmyWife

Does she live in New York? Or just shop there?


I don't know, but there have got to be at least two thousand people in that state who are better qualified than she is to be a US Senator. Nobody is born to be a senator. You have to earn it.

196 DEZes  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:09:25pm

re: #185 Walter L. Newton

There will be a civil war, with in 20 years.

Sometimes I beleive that too, I pray its not true.

197 OldLineTexan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:09:33pm

re: #187 ArmyWife

Does she live in New York? Or just shop there?

Now what does that matter to New Yorkers, or at least the ones that voted Hillary and her carpetbag into the Senate?

198 Silas  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:09:43pm

I wish McCain would just join the Democratic Party and get it over with. He has more in common with them the Republicans.
McCain is like the crazy ole relative that says something mean and stupid at the most inopportune times.

199 Killian Bundy  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:09:45pm

re: #155 TheMatrix31

I'd love to post this on my Facebook page. Are there any direct statistics, articles, etc to show just how BAD the Chicago education system is run?

/try starting here or here

200 Truck Monkey  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:09:48pm

Saracuda gave Johnny Mac a shot. Without her he would have been killed instead of soundly beaten.

201 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:09:50pm
202 ciaospirit  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:09:54pm

re: #160 Iron Fist

Once Obama backed out of public financing, McCain should have done the same.

203 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:09:56pm

re: #174 taxfreekiller

Get out, join the local party, go to the meetings, join the Republican mens or womens clubs, get on committees, become a prescient chair, get to be a county, state or national delegate. Get on candidate selection committees, get on the platform committee, get on the state party rules committee. Do something like that to stop the ID ones who now rule in Texas, in Penn. Arlen Spector has got to go, in Nevada some one needs to get the R's to get their act together and run a real deal and get that little tart Harry Reid out of our Senate. You guys in Mass. what the hell Kennedy and Kerry, what in the hell is wrong with you, are you all on the dole or what. Shummer is a shame and disgrace to each one of us.

like that
Stand up fight back, just do something.

McCain and the rest of them are giving you the middle finger live on TV .

LISTEN TO TFK!

204 cicadajoe  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:10:00pm

McCain is a useful idiot for lefties. At this point his influence is zero and his endorsement is probably detrimental.

My favorite McCain moments are those where conservatives are rightly outraged (e.g. at Blagojevich, Rev Wright, Bill Ayers etc.) and McMoron tells them to stop being angry.

205 Jamie  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:10:19pm

re: #154 kcladderman

Of course not if we are going to follow the time line of the last election there is only a little over one hundred days until the next election starts.

Yes, but you don't exactly see the endorsements flying at this stage. I think it's perfectly appropriate to keep quiet right now. He doesn't know who will be running.

206 eastvillageinfidel  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:10:21pm

Well, John McCain is certainly revealing himself to be a bitter old jerk. Gore at least had the decency to wait until the next election to stab Lieberman in the back. What a grouchy old sore loser.

207 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:10:23pm

re: #197 OldLineTexan

I know, I just thought maybe they learned something. It was just a moment of insanity on my part. It won't happen again.

208 kcladderman  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:10:48pm

re: #205 Jamie

Yes, but you don't exactly see the endorsements flying at this stage. I think it's perfectly appropriate to keep quiet right now. He doesn't know who will be running.

I forgot the sarc tag

209 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:10:51pm

re: #199 Killian Bundy


Stealing for my blog, k?

210 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:10:53pm

re: #185 Walter L. Newton

I intend to, but I'm not giving the Republican party another penny until they start acting like Republicans (which I don't think we will ever see again).

There will be a civil war, with in 20 years.

I'm ready.

211 maddogg  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:10:59pm

re: #185 Walter L. Newton

I intend to, but I'm not giving the Republican party another penny until they start acting like Republicans (which I don't think we will ever see again).

There will be a civil war, with in 20 years.

I believe that too. Things are starting to look too much like the 1850's. Only this time it won't be the north against the south.

212 JeremyR  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:11:03pm

re: #141 Wishing

Ok I 100% agree...at what level must this law be enacted? Is this on state or fed level?

Federal level. The states would come on board by default. It would look wonky as heck to be voting in the state election, but be banned from voting in the federal one. That would create a situation only SeeBS could ignore.

213 DEZes  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:12:14pm

re: #206 eastvillageinfidel

Well, John McCain is certainly revealing himself to be a bitter old jerk. Gore at least had the decency to wait until the next election to stab Lieberman in the back. What a grouchy old sore loser.

WOW, your right.
Gore shows more class than McCain, My head hurts now.

214 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:12:33pm

re: #172 buzzsawmonkey

The overblown elections that we have developed increase the likelihood that one properly-placed error can destroy a campaign. The Couric interview did precisely what it was intended to do; knock the supports out from under Palin to give the Obama campaign time to recover from its initial disequilibrium.

and the GoP didnt see it coming or steer a path otherwise before the fact...pathetic...how in the world can the GoP recover and get some game when they seem so behind the curve?...I'm not optimistic...maybe BO will shoot himself in the foot but if he does who will care...we're DOOMED!...heh

215 ZardozZ  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:12:39pm

McCain is "dead to me"... to quote may infamous movie lines.

216 Wilderstad  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:12:48pm

McCain has shamed himself. Palin did more for his campaign than he did.
Sad, sad, small parsimonious man.

217 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:12:59pm

re: #211 maddogg

I believe that too. Things are starting to look too much like the 1850's. Only this time it won't be the north against the south.

In vs Out?

218 ciaospirit  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:13:04pm

re: #179 ArmyWife

Which, of course, makes one distinctly qualified to be education secretary.

I am going to wake up, right?

Same kind of qualifications Kennedy has to be a Senator.

219 JeremyR  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:13:25pm

re: #153 J.S.

I had the impression (after the election) that Palin had been sabatoged by her own staffers...(for whatever reasons...--getting too much attention? jealous about her "star power"? apparently they kept insisting that she go out and do interviews with hostile media types, as opposed to doing interviews with friendlier sorts..)

remember that those staffers were McCains people, not hers.

220 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:13:54pm
221 nyc redneck  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:13:57pm

re: #89 nyc redneck

we can't let the msm pick our candidate for pouts ever again.

i can't believe i actually wrote "pouts" for potus.
wtf.

222 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:13:59pm

re: #203 Sharmuta

LISTEN TO TFK!

I always do...he's good spirits

223 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:14:38pm

re: #221 nyc redneck

i can't believe i actually wrote "pouts" for potus.
wtf.

Works for me. You've seen Obama, right?

224 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:14:42pm

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but this whole thing seems odd. McCain beats up on the Repubs to get the nomination only to hang back and play the good guy to a Marxist. I feel that this was a setup from the word go.

225 Joan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:14:59pm

re: #162 wolfie

I was much more ticked off at McCain's silence when Palin was being slandered immediately after the election.

That is a good point. It was absolutely appalling. McCain didn't give a rat's ass about her, about the Republican Party, or about his "friends" who didn't carry him on their backs into the Oval Office. Feh.

226 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:15:21pm
227 OldLineTexan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:15:32pm

re: #221 nyc redneck

i can't believe i actually wrote "pouts" for potus.
wtf.

Give it six months; you may be psychic.

228 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:15:41pm
229 maximoso  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:15:58pm

Stephanopoulos: Senator McCain - will you be endorsing John Crist in 2012?

McCain : Si

Please let this man lose his Senate primary Arizona.

230 DEZes  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:16:02pm

re: #226 buzzsawmonkey

The GOP is stumbling around like the Fred Thompson campaign under a Randi Rhodes-level load of alcohol.

Now thats funny!

231 eastvillageinfidel  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:16:14pm

re: #221 nyc redneck

Actually, 'pouts' seems like fair description of McCain. :)

232 Adrenalyn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:16:28pm

McCain: the Potemkin Candidate

there was nothing there
he did not run for POTUS
not even a walk

he sat it out essentially


to harken back to my childhood days

he was the best player on the other team

233 JeremyR  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:16:33pm

re: #185 Walter L. Newton

I intend to, but I'm not giving the Republican party another penny until they start acting like Republicans (which I don't think we will ever see again).

There will be a civil war, with in 20 years.

If anything were to happen to Obamanation, we would erupt into civil war. That is why I'd hate to see Berg et al succeed.
I hope Obama turns out to be the best president ever, but I'm not holding my breath, only my nose.

234 Truck Monkey  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:17:09pm

re: #224 NYCHardhat

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but this whole thing seems odd. McCain beats up on the Repubs to get the nomination only to hang back and play the good guy to a Marxist. I feel that this was a setup from the word go.

Set up is right! Just like Ross Perot was working with Bubba to peel off votes from George H.W. Bush. Bubba would never have been President were it not for Ross Thetroll.

235 maddogg  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:17:13pm

re: #217 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

In vs Out?

Americans vs socialist scum. No clear battle lines except in certain areas.

236 Racer X  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:17:23pm

I'm not gonna pile on. Dude is a war hero.

237 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:17:56pm

re: #226 buzzsawmonkey

The GOP is stumbling around like the Fred Thompson campaign under a Randi Rhodes-level load of alcohol.

right...political party walks out of a bar...now I want a drink

238 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:18:03pm

Who gives a shit?

239 Killian Bundy  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:18:06pm

re: #209 ArmyWife

Stealing for my blog, k?

/I don't care, they're not my links anyway

240 snopercod  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:18:30pm

What a loser.

241 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:18:42pm

re: #236 Racer X

I'm not gonna pile on. Dude is a war hero.

True, but he is not the same man he was back then. Problem is, it shows.

242 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:19:00pm

re: #194 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Sooner if the national debt gets to the point that we cannot afford the interest.

/Won't be the first one generated by such a thing, I think that's what happened in pre-revolutionary France.

And what was the most important innovation of that time that really helped organized the whole affair? Pamphleteering. The printing press opened up the ability of the populace to spread their ideas and concerns.

And we have the same communicative revolution happening right now, you are using it right now, and it has already been used as an enabler of war and fighting.

The Internet.

History always repeats itself.

243 little boomer  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:19:06pm

How can he endorse someone so stupid they don't know when the First World War occurred?

-Wait, that was Obama-

244 mioilman  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:19:24pm

This is why I did not vote. McCain can't endorse someone from outside that pig trough called the beltway. First conservative to light a broom on fire and lead the charge toward "New Moscow" (D.C.) gets all my support. Reelect no one.

245 cincinnati_kid37  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:19:26pm

My McCain/Palin sticker on my car had the McCain portion removed from the start.

246 Racer X  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:19:27pm

Fucking A.

Is this like that Star Trek episode where LGF turns into KOS?

247 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:19:40pm

re: #236 Racer X

I'm not gonna pile on. Dude is a war hero.

good for you...thanks for the reminder...party politics is hardly everything

248 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:20:19pm

re: #242 Walter L. Newton

And what was the most important innovation of that time that really helped organized the whole affair? Pamphleteering. The printing press opened up the ability of the populace to spread their ideas and concerns.

And we have the same communicative revolution happening right now, you are using it right now, and it has already been used as an enabler of war and fighting.

The Internet.

History always repeats itself.

Nice analogy. Upding.

249 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:20:53pm

re: #233 JeremyR

If anything were to happen to Obamanation, we would erupt into civil war. That is why I'd hate to see Berg et al succeed.
I hope Obama turns out to be the best president ever, but I'm not holding my breath, only my nose.

I'm not talking about a "right or left" civil war. I'm not talking about a civil war if Obama gets hurt or killed.

I'm talking about a civil war supported by all flavors of Americans who will not accept the plutocracy that is running this country.

250 Jamie  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:21:20pm

re: #234 Truck Monkey

Set up is right! Just like Ross Perot was working with Bubba to peel off votes from George H.W. Bush. Bubba would never have been President were it not for Ross Thetroll.

Clinton would have won that race without Perot. Perot really only cost GHWB Montana and Ohio, significantly less than the margin of victory.

251 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:21:22pm

re: #236 Racer X

I'm not gonna pile on. Dude is a war hero.

He is a war hero.

But has a politician is not much.

Randy "Duke" Cunningham is a war hero.

As a politician he's a felon.

Just because the served admirably in one venue, doesn't give them a pass in another. Buys them points. But as they say; one aww-shit wipes out a thousand atta-boys.

252 Joan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:21:22pm

re: #185 Walter L. Newton
There will be a civil war, with in 20 years.
re: #210 NYCHardhat

I'm ready.

We all better hope there is not, we can't afford to be that weakened. It may be that events will intervene, to galvanize this country into a semblance of unity. We need to be united to face the real threat of attack, even invasion, from outside our borders--in order to de-fang the fifth column that operates our propaganda machine and milks to money cow.

253 Racer X  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:21:50pm

Despicable.

I'm out.

254 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:21:56pm

re: #246 Racer X

Fucking A.

Is this like that Star Trek episode where LGF turns into KOS?

Only if we see Charles with a goatee. That's the dead giveaway.

255 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:22:04pm
256 JeremyR  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:22:14pm

re: #242 Walter L. Newton

Ding!
Now lets become the ultimate pampleteers.

257 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:22:19pm

re: #248 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Nice analogy. Upding.

you are more than an Orson Wells look alike...good insight...do you have that wrist rocket yet?

258 swamprat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:22:24pm

That politician should have never been saddled with that anchor.

She would have done better on her own, although I still greatly respect John McCain.

259 stuiec  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:22:25pm

re: #241 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

True, but he is not the same man he was back then. Problem is, it shows.

The North Vietnamese used the wrong approach. It's easy to remember that someone is your enemy when he's physically torturing you.

But when he's joking and chatting over your 3,000th bowl of navy bean soup in the Senate cafeteria, he starts seeming like your best buddy.

260 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:23:07pm

re: #246 Racer X

Fucking A.

Is this like that Star Trek episode where LGF turns into KOS?

No. I took mac at his word when he asked us to put country first. I did that. I set aside my personal feelings on the man and voted for him because I felt he'd be better than the alternative.

However- I feel free to now revert to my previous position on the man. God love him for his service to the country. Other than that- he can kiss my ass for being a two-bit back stabber.

261 HoosierHoops  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:23:18pm

re: #236 Racer X

I'm not gonna pile on. Dude is a war hero.

Maybe i read this wrong today..
But I think McCain really tried to deflect any questions about Sarah..
I felt the MSM tried to twist his words..
He humbly said something like..My corps isn't even cold yet and you want me to throw my backing to a possible Candidate?..Call the hoopster crazy but that is a game played during the primary season..not after a national election..It isn't a fair question for any citizen much less McCain..

262 TheMatrix31  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:23:20pm

re: #199 Killian Bundy

/try starting here or here

Appreciate those, KB!

263 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:23:28pm

re: #248 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Nice analogy. Upding.

Thanks. And understand, I am not calling for civil war. But I'm projecting, predicting, making possible assumptions from past history and comparing it to current events.

It's not looking good.

264 eastvillageinfidel  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:23:48pm

re: #236 Racer X


He's not acting like one at the moment. Sorry.

265 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:23:54pm

re: #252 Joan

re: #185 Walter L. Newton
There will be a civil war, with in 20 years.

We all better hope there is not, we can't afford to be that weakened. It may be that events will intervene, to galvanize this country into a semblance of unity. We need to be united to face the real threat of attack, even invasion, from outside our borders--in order to de-fang the fifth column that operates our propaganda machine and milks to money cow.

I hope you're right because I have had enough and sometimes I wonder if we are heading towards a revolution.

266 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:24:09pm

re: #236 Racer X

I respect him for this. I will ALWAYS respect him for this. It does not, however, give him carte blanche to be an ass. If he wants to be a Dem then be one Dammit. I'd respect that, too.

267 summergurl  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:24:59pm

re: #190 Iron Fist

Curiously enough, during the '92 campaign I had a friend that was raised in Little Rock. While Clinton was triangulating his way to the Presidency, this guy kept going on and on about what a disaster Clinton was going to be if he was elected, and how many skeletons were really in his closet.

To be honest, none of us believed him. It seemed too far-fetched. surely if he were that bad the Republicans would be having a field-day with his scandals.

In hindsight, it was clear that my friend knew whereof he spoke. The country has paid a very high price for that mistake.

And now we have Obama. What could possibly go wrong?

Same thing happened to me. I have several associates in Little Rock, apparently Clinton was handled with kid gloves there and tolerated as a horny dog, no one expected him to jump to the national arena with all that baggage and his propensity to seek out willing females. Never underestimate the power of the press to suppress facts when it involves their party - look at how long Edwards was able to hide his love child. And was it the MSM that exposed him? No - a checkout rag did it.

268 maximoso  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:25:11pm
Yes, but you don't exactly see the endorsements flying at this stage. I think it's perfectly appropriate to keep quiet right now. He doesn't know who will be running.

Totally agree, but his comments to clarify his statement were that he admired her. He could have at least said she could be a good Presidential candidate if she chooses - along with Many other Republicans.

But he just said he admired her. For all we know - he was admiring her legs.

McCain just used Palin to lock up Republican support - which he couldn't do on his own. If he never picked Palin - or somebody else conservative - I'd have sat home ELection day. Instead - I voted - and cursed my actions when I got home for supporting such a RINO. Frankly I was kindof relieved when he lost. He'd be a tolerable Democrat - but he's cancer for the party - when he identifies with the Republican party.

McCain is about McCain. Nothing else.

269 wolfie  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:25:15pm

re: #236 Racer X

I'm not gonna pile on. Dude is a war hero.

I'd vote for him all over again for that reason alone. No way I wouldn't vote for the guy who was rotting in the Hanoi Hilton while Obama pals Ayers, Dohrn, et al. were acting out their spoiled brat dramas and openly rooting for the enemy.
I don't doubt McCain's patriotism and I basically trust him as much as any politician when it comes to national defense.

270 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:25:37pm
271 JeremyR  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:26:03pm

re: #249 Walter L. Newton

I'm not talking about a "right or left" civil war. I'm not talking about a civil war if Obama gets hurt or killed.

I'm talking about a civil war supported by all flavors of Americans who will not accept the plutocracy that is running this country.

It would very likely be a war of the working people vs the hands out crowd. People eventually will rebel against being robbed by hte government who then pampers the lazy. That is what is so wrong with the automobile bail out. Let GM and Ford fail. after its over, the union sleeze will have little power and The auto industry can get back to making cars.
Its time now for people to put the "I Love my country but fear my Government" stickers right next to a campaign sticker for a republican candidate.

272 kcladderman  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:26:22pm

re: #233 JeremyR

If anything were to happen to Obamanation, we would erupt into civil war. That is why I'd hate to see Berg et al succeed.
I hope Obama turns out to be the best president ever, but I'm not holding my breath, only my nose.

The only problem with the civil war predictions is the other side always has someone else do their fighting. So beyond some riots so they could all steal booze and tvs they don't have the heart for a real fight. Do they have the courage and fortitude to really fight? Can you see them fighting in the heat of a southwestern summer? Or the cold of a bitter winters night on the plains? No I don't believe they do, the latte swilling leftest or the lazy government moocher are not made of the right stuff to actually fight for what they believe in.

273 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:26:33pm
274 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:26:35pm

re: #263 Walter L. Newton

Thanks. And understand, I am not calling for civil war. But I'm projecting, predicting, making possible assumptions from past history and comparing it to current events.

It's not looking good.

Sometimes a person has to hate living history in the making.

/More often than not, when humans are involved, history leads to heads on sticks and such.

275 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:26:47pm

re: #253 Racer X

Despicable.

I'm out.

he chose politics and will have to take the heat for his choices...it's no more than that...

276 JeremyR  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:27:45pm

re: #255 Iron Fist

I don't think most Americans know how close we came to that in 1994. Instead of going to war, we went and voted, and the Democrats lost the House and Senate for the first time.

There's some hope that we can do the same, but I'll admit it looks grim. The Republicans were a big disappointment in the long run. They had the government, but they didn't really do that much with it. Why should we vote them into power again?

Do much? in hte end they out spent the dems. They ceased to be republicans and were sent packing.
in 2010, the left will have no one to blame for the disaster if it happens.

277 maddogg  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:27:56pm

re: #270 buzzsawmonkey

re: #241 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Allow me to point out that the same qualities which made McCain a war hero--the ability to endure adversity, and to snatch small victories in the face of an overwhelming greater force--are precisely what unfitted him for this campaign.


Without in any way denigrating McCain's suffering as a prisoner of war, or the honor with which he conducted himself, these things did not engender the kind of aggressive attack instincts that would have been necessary for him to succeed against the Obama juggernaut.
Being a POW required taking it, and taking it again, and snatching small dignities in the face of overwhelming and ongoing indignity. That is what loses campaigns, not what wins them; what wins a political campaign is not stolid endurance, but taking the battle to the enemy's ground and routing him on his home turf.

One might surmise that a fighter pilot might have that instinct.

278 Wishing  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:28:10pm

re: #273 Iron Fist

No doubt about that. McCain practically surrendered on the fundraising front. That let Obama do some horrifically expensive things, like buy an entire half hour from the major networks to run a thirty minute infomercial about how great he is.

Maybe he'd have won without all of that, but it hard to imagine that he speant that much money and it had no effect on the results of the election.

if nothing else, the Republicans better not ever make that mistake again.

Seems to me the Zero spent WADS of money..pre-election...via friends at ACORN.

279 swamprat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:28:12pm

McCain just said that he would rather endorse himself for president. I don't find this to be an issue.

280 Empire1  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:28:13pm

As bad as Delaware is politically (e. g. Biden), it does have two things other states would do well to emulate: closed primaries and a photo ID requirement for voting.

281 wolfie  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:28:33pm

re: #261 HoosierHoops

That's pretty much the way I read it, Hoops.

282 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:28:46pm

This is why open primaries are a bad thing.

283 dareya  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:28:52pm

re: #30 Ojoe

Palin is dangerous and scary. So far out of her league that it was painful to watch. (Am I missing something?)

284 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:29:18pm

I have always respected McCain's military service.

Doesn't mean I have to respect his political service.

285 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:29:23pm

Just made a slight change to the avatar. The Babushka is even more pissed off.

286 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:29:52pm

re: #277 maddogg

One might surmise that a fighter pilot might have that instinct.

well he wasnt a fighter pilot..not to split hairs...I dont know if it makes a difference but I think it does

287 HoosierHoops  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:29:53pm

upding Vet.. The tragedy of mankind...
that we thought all we need is love..But we need so much more

288 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:30:01pm

re: #285 Alouette

Just made a slight change to the avatar. The Babushka is even more pissed off.

I like it! Very kewl.

289 JamesWI  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:30:09pm

Although I think it is a bit cold, I also do think it would not be a good move for any prominent politician to make an endorsement this early in the game. We've got a few years before the (real) campaigning starts, and who knows who will actually emerge as the best Republican choice for 2012. If he says he endorses her now, then changes his mind when a better choice comes up, a few things could happen:

1) Palin is still in the race, and uses the previous endorsement by McCain to discredit his future endorsement of another candidate.
2) Palin is completely out of the race for some reason, and someone else uses the previous endorsement to question his judgment on the new guy/gal (although you don't need much to question his judgment).

There are many things for which you can possibly be angry/irate at John McCain. Not giving what amounts to an official endorsement for the Republican candidacy for 2012 before the end of 2008 just doesn't seem like one of them, even if she was his VP candidate.

290 snopercod  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:30:13pm

re: #242 Walter L. Newton

History always repeats itself.


That's because human nature never changes.

291 Outrider  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:30:26pm

re: #270 buzzsawmonkey

re: #241 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Allow me to point out that the same qualities which made McCain a war hero--the ability to endure adversity, and to snatch small victories in the face of an overwhelming greater force--are precisely what unfitted him for this campaign.

Without in any way denigrating McCain's suffering as a prisoner of war, or the honor with which he conducted himself, these things did not engender the kind of aggressive attack instincts that would have been necessary for him to succeed against the Obama juggernaut.

Being a POW required taking it, and taking it again, and snatching small dignities in the face of overwhelming and ongoing indignity. That is what loses campaigns, not what wins them; what wins a political campaign is not stolid endurance, but taking the battle to the enemy's ground and routing him on his home turf.

I suspect someone with a grunt background would have done things a lot more aggressively.

292 OldLineTexan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:30:27pm

re: #283 dareya

Palin is dangerous and scary. So far out of her league that it was painful to watch. (Am I missing something?)

What are you, a moose?

293 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:30:42pm

re: #283 dareya

Palin is dangerous and scary. So far out of her league that it was painful to watch. (Am I missing something?)

You're missing a LOT.

294 Fat Jolly Penguin  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:30:46pm

re: #283 dareya

Palin is dangerous and scary. So far out of her league that it was painful to watch. (Am I missing something?)

WTF!

295 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:30:49pm

re: #277 maddogg

One might surmise that a fighter pilot might have that instinct.

Age and having been tortured can take that out of a man.

I really hoped he had those instincts still and was pretty vocal about it. It really seemed that he had found his stride when that day of the lipstick on a pig over-reach happened.

He never seemed to regain his footing after that.

296 JeremyR  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:31:00pm

re: #272 kcladderman

The only problem with the civil war predictions is the other side always has someone else do their fighting. So beyond some riots so they could all steal booze and tvs they don't have the heart for a real fight. Do they have the courage and fortitude to really fight? Can you see them fighting in the heat of a southwestern summer? Or the cold of a bitter winters night on the plains? No I don't believe they do, the latte swilling leftest or the lazy government moocher are not made of the right stuff to actually fight for what they believe in.

When the fighting starts, expect some foreign power such as a Russian satelite to step in to assist with restoring order.

297 OldLineTexan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:31:04pm

re: #290 snopercod

That's because human nature never changes.

It does not evolve?

///

298 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:31:04pm
299 VegasRick  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:31:09pm

re: #283 dareya

Palin is dangerous and scary. So far out of her league that it was painful to watch. (Am I missing something?)

Nice, 2 posts, -5 karma.

300 wolfie  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:31:13pm

re: #270 buzzsawmonkey

Good insight. I hadn't really thought of that.

301 Outrider  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:31:14pm

re: #283 dareya

Palin is dangerous and scary. So far out of her league that it was painful to watch. (Am I missing something?)

A lot apparently.

302 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:31:43pm

re: #271 JeremyR

Its time now for people to put the "I Love my country but fear my Government" stickers right next to a campaign sticker for a republican candidate.

Too moonbatty IMHO. I understand your idea and agree that's why I like the Gadsden Flag. Conveys the same sentiment, but harkens back to our founding and the ideals we are founded on.

303 Ceemack  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:31:45pm

re: #177 gclaghorn

Then why don't you?


Because I generally like to read posts from people who can make a point without resorting to that kind of profanity.

Which is usually the norm here.

Posts on Kos read like they're all 18-year-old who just discovered they can use the f-bomb without getting in trouble, and now feel like they have to use it every other word.

Folks here are generally a little more grown-up.

304 USBeast  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:32:02pm

While we're all hammering an old veteran allow me to point out two points of fact: He is correct in his assessment of his own metabolic state. He is also correct about the existence of viable Republican candidates for 2012.

Let us remember that John McCain is a fighter pilot. He has been trained to follow the OODA Loop: Observe, Orient, Decide, Act.

We are four years away from the next presidential election. Given John McCain's training he would have to be an idiot to endorse anyone, even his own former running mate, at this time.

Gov. Palin may indeed prove to be the best choice for Republicans four year from now, but damning McCain for not endorsing her at this point is just plain stupid.

305 Wishing  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:32:21pm

Obama;s pick, Arne Duncan challenge


snip: But Duncan failed to mentioned that the “Renaissance 2010 Fund” is a private organization, headed by people from the Civic Committee of the Commercial Club, which controls a great deal of money and which promotes charter schools and other privatization agendas in Chicago.

Board members did not ask Duncan where the Board had approved the delegation of such vast powers — including the power to designate which Chicago public schools to “replicate” — to a private entity over which the public has no control and which most members of the public don’t even know exists.

306 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:32:52pm
307 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:32:54pm

re: #303 Ceemack

Because I generally like to read posts from people who can make a point without resorting to that kind of profanity.

Which is usually the norm here.

Posts on Kos read like they're all 18-year-old who just discovered they can use the f-bomb without getting in trouble, and now feel like they have to use it every other word.

Folks here are generally a little more grown-up.

Posts on Kos are mouthy, I'll give you that. But I don't have a problem with people saying what they want to say as long as they do it in moderation and not constantly.

308 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:33:05pm
309 legalpad  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:33:17pm
310 nyc redneck  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:33:23pm

he is just such a disappointment.
he was a disappointment, in many ways, before he ran.
he was a disappointment during the campaign and he is a disappointment now that it's over.
honestly ,i admire his resolve and courage as a p.o.w. but he has no real focus now.
mccain is floundering around. he is useless, except to the libs. who will continue to take advantage of him.
on the one hand, i almost feel protective of him.
on the other i want to jerk him by the lapels and scream, "snap out of it, crazy old man".

311 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:33:24pm

re: #299 VegasRick

Nice, 2 posts, -5 karma.

A one-day wonder, too.

312 swamprat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:33:28pm

Maverick and "loyal opposition. He can't have it both ways. He caused the republicans more headaches than a jackhammer being used on December 2nd.

313 HoosierHoops  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:33:39pm

re: #280 Empire1

As bad as Delaware is politically (e. g. Biden), it does have two things other states would do well to emulate: closed primaries and a photo ID requirement for voting.

Like Indiana? Glad you are following our lead.. *wink*

314 TheMatrix31  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:33:42pm

re: #304 USBeast

While we're all hammering an old veteran allow me to point out two points of fact: He is correct in his assessment of his own metabolic state. He is also correct about the existence of viable Republican candidates for 2012.

Let us remember that John McCain is a fighter pilot. He has been trained to follow the OODA Loop: Observe, Orient, Decide, Act.

We are four years away from the next presidential election. Given John McCain's training he would have to be an idiot to endorse anyone, even his own former running mate, at this time.

Gov. Palin may indeed prove to be the best choice for Republicans four year from now, but damning McCain for not endorsing her at this point is just plain stupid.

It's not about endorsing her from now, it's about the way he's saying it.

315 dareya  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:33:59pm

re: #301 Outrider

A lot apparently.

Please enlighten. What about the inanity of that which came forth when she spoke?

316 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:34:00pm

re: #255 Iron Fist

I don't think most Americans know how close we came to that in 1994. Instead of going to war, we went and voted, and the Democrats lost the House and Senate for the first time.

There's some hope that we can do the same, but I'll admit it looks grim. The Republicans were a big disappointment in the long run. They had the government, but they didn't really do that much with it. Why should we vote them into power again?

I have stated this before on LGF, in fact so many times, I can't should save this post and just repost it when needed...

It doesn't matter anymore. No one gets to Washington unless they can be of some use to the big money interests, the plutocracy. Either side, any side, any politician, if they get into the Senate or the House, or the President and his Cabinet, they are there at the bequest of the plutocracy, even if they don't realize it.

Voting has become something that makes us feel like we are making a difference. It's to keep the facade of a democratic republic, the make-believe world of George Washington and Thomas Jefferson.

Those values, those people, those "fathers" are long gone and dead, and their value to us is simply to give us some tie to the past, some "screed" with the nations, a flag we can unfurl and wave at the world.

When in reality, those founders and their foundational insights are dusty old stories, relegated to history books. History books that are not even taught in our own schools anymore.

What is wrong with this picture? Nothing, if you can picture a plutocracy.

317 irongrampa  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:34:11pm

Said this before, the pity party's over for me.
We've already started, at my VERY local level, to work on 2010.Do what I can, to change what I can.

I REFUSE to cede my country to these morons.

318 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:34:14pm

re: #289 JamesWI

The right answer was "Sarah Palin is a remarkable and capable individual. s with many fine people in our party, should she decide to run for office in the future, I could not see one reason not to endorse her."

319 doriangrey  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:34:30pm

re: #242 Walter L. Newton

And what was the most important innovation of that time that really helped organized the whole affair? Pamphleteering. The printing press opened up the ability of the populace to spread their ideas and concerns.

And we have the same communicative revolution happening right now, you are using it right now, and it has already been used as an enabler of war and fighting.

The Internet.

History always repeats itself.

Indeed, as I said to you some weeks ago, the internet is the new local pub where Samuel Adams and Benjamin Franklin meet to rouse the public to revolutionary war.

320 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:35:01pm

re: #315 dareya

Please enlighten. What about the inanity of that which came forth when she spoke?

What "inanity"? Please be more specific.

321 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:35:02pm

re: #283 dareya

Palin is dangerous and scary. So far out of her league that it was painful to watch. (Am I missing something?)

What exactly is it that you find dangerous and scary about her?

322 maximoso  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:35:09pm
re: #282 gclaghorn

This is why open primaries are a bad thing.

Right on

I watched all the primaries - and even with Huckabee - and Romney splitting the conservative votes - McCain didn't win a single state if you just looked solely at the Registered Republican voters. If not for Huckabee sticking siphoning Southern Baptist votes - and releasing his voters to McCain in a Caucus after McCain won Florida - Romney would have won the nomination.

323 Joan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:35:09pm

re: #171 FrogMarch

Wish I could double-ding your post. You made the case well.

324 legalpad  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:35:26pm

re: #318 ArmyWife

The right answer was "Sarah Palin is a remarkable and capable individual. s with many fine people in our party, should she decide to run for office in the future, I could not see one reason not to endorse her."

There you go. Simple.

325 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:35:31pm

re: #321 Sharmuta

What exactly is it that you find dangerous and scary about her?

She's a woman.

326 snopercod  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:35:48pm

re: #304 USBeast

Let us remember that John McCain is a fighter pilot.

He sure as hell didn't understand anything about the economy. That's what shot him down.

327 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:35:55pm
328 Fat Jolly Penguin  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:35:55pm

re: #325 NYCHardhat

She's a woman.

A woman who isn't afraid to speak her mind and do the right thing.

329 Outrider  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:36:16pm

re: #315 dareya

Please enlighten. What about the inanity of that which came forth when she spoke?

On the one interview where the edited portions were shown? Came off bad. Other speeches? Public rallies? Public speeches? Great. And the crowds roared their approval as such.

Where is your inanity?

330 maddogg  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:36:36pm

re: #286 albusteve

well he wasnt a fighter pilot..not to split hairs...I dont know if it makes a difference but I think it does

Didn't he fly an A-4? Thats not exactly a job for a pacifist.

331 jwb7605  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:36:37pm

re: #283 dareya

Palin is dangerous and scary. So far out of her league that it was painful to watch. (Am I missing something?)

You're missing what hope and change really means.
I don't consider coming out of a political cesspool change.
I do consider a record of cleaning a political cesspool as change.

Obama fits the first, Palin fits the second, and neither of them have "experience" (gravitas?).

332 Wishing  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:36:45pm

re: #327 ploome hineni

do you know Arne's record of achievement in Chicago?

I have been posting links...not sure about the man, but the schools he oversaw apparently suck. lol

333 VegasRick  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:36:48pm

re: #315 dareya

Please enlighten. What about the inanity of that which came forth when she spoke?

Are you trying to set a record or something?

334 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:36:54pm

re: #314 TheMatrix31

Exactly. You said it better than me! Thank you.

335 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:37:01pm

re: #321 Sharmuta

What exactly is it that you find dangerous and scary about her?

She's hot and has guns.

/That makes her a viable threat to my marriage. (In my dreams...)

336 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:37:06pm

re: #328 Fat Jolly Penguin

A woman who isn't afraid to speak her mind and do the right thing.

I know. I'm all for her. I'm playing with Sharm.

337 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:37:10pm

re: #304 USBeast

While we're all hammering an old veteran allow me to point out two points of fact: He is correct in his assessment of his own metabolic state. He is also correct about the existence of viable Republican candidates for 2012.

Let us remember that John McCain is a fighter pilot. He has been trained to follow the OODA Loop: Observe, Orient, Decide, Act.

We are four years away from the next presidential election. Given John McCain's training he would have to be an idiot to endorse anyone, even his own former running mate, at this time.

Gov. Palin may indeed prove to be the best choice for Republicans four year from now, but damning McCain for not endorsing her at this point is just plain stupid.

he flew A4s...a light agile bomber...no air to air fighter combat...he dodged flak not opposing fighters...different mindset I'm sure...carry on

338 swamprat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:37:11pm

re: #283 dareya

Sense of reality. Other than that; OK.

339 rightymouse  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:37:14pm

re: #292 OldLineTexan

What are you, a moose?

Sounds more like a turkey.

340 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:37:33pm

re: #283 dareya

Palin is dangerous and scary. So far out of her league that it was painful to watch. (Am I missing something?)

And Obambi isn't out of league
A Marxist community organizer is his creds to be POTUS, what's he run other than a Marxist cell in this country?

Dangerous? Everyone in Obama's life is a friggin' Marxist, that's not dangerous?

Scary?
National Health care, National Civilian Security Force, force coal out of business, Nationalized Auto makers? Scary?

What's you been smokin' Willis?

341 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:37:56pm
342 nyc redneck  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:37:56pm

re: #283 dareya

Palin is dangerous and scary. So far out of her league that it was painful to watch. (Am I missing something?)

neither the O nor biden are as qualified as she is.
that is what you are missing.

343 legalpad  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:38:00pm

re: #325 NYCHardhat

She's a woman.

I think that is the simple and pathetic truth.

344 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:38:14pm
345 Fat Jolly Penguin  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:38:46pm

re: #336 NYCHardhat

I know. I'm all for her. I'm playing with Sharm.

Me too! :)

346 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:38:53pm

re: #328 Fat Jolly Penguin

A woman who isn't afraid to speak her mind and do the right thing.

Guess I'm out for running.

347 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:39:13pm

re: #340 jcm

And Obambi isn't out of league
A Marxist community organizer is his creds to be POTUS, what's he run other than a Marxist cell in this country?

Dangerous? Everyone in Obama's life is a friggin' Marxist, that's not dangerous?

Scary?
National Health care, National Civilian Security Force, force coal out of business, Nationalized Auto makers? Scary?

What's you been smokin' Willis?

Face? Meet fist.

348 Outrider  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:39:25pm

re: #341 ploome hineni

#283 dareya

yeah...NObama

that was the alternative


N☭bama N☭bama N☭bama N☭bama N☭bama N☭bama N☭bama N☭bama N☭bama N☭bama N☭bama N☭bama N☭bama N☭bama N☭bama

349 Age Of Freedom  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:39:57pm

oh boy...

350 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:40:20pm

re: #330 maddogg

Didn't he fly an A-4? Thats not exactly a job for a pacifist.

no it isnt but it's not a fighter plane...his were static ground targets...I'm not demeaning the guys service but that's the fact

351 dareya  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:40:33pm

re: #320 gclaghorn

What "inanity"? Please be more specific.

Said Palin: "They are also building schools for the Afghan children so that there is hope and opportunity in our neighboring country of Afghanistan."

As we know there are many others. Bush had some gems too but at least it took him longer to generate so many. Yes, everyone misspeaks at times. And she held her own at the debate. But she was stumped by Katie Couric. Not ready for prime time. She needs to go away.

352 kynna  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:41:30pm

One thing's for sure. If we don't clean up our primaries, we're not going to get a decent candidate AGAIN! Palin definitely won't be on the ticket. Huckabee probably will be.

With an incumbent dem the minions will be all over the Republican primaries in the states where they can do that. It's sickening the the GOP just continues to let that happen.

353 itellu3times  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:41:41pm

Yeah I saw that interview, it was freakin' elder abuse from start to finish.

354 Wishing  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:41:42pm

I think I will go watch band of brothers...
laterz

355 swamprat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:42:00pm

Fire up the coals, boys!

I say a nice lemon-pepper rub.
/something to kill the smell

356 Outrider  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:42:01pm

re: #351 dareya

Said Palin: "They are also building schools for the Afghan children so that there is hope and opportunity in our neighboring country of Afghanistan."

As we know there are many others. Bush had some gems too but at least it took him longer to generate so many. Yes, everyone misspeaks at times. And she held her own at the debate. But she was stumped by Katie Couric. Not ready for prime time. She needs to go away.

You are basing all of this on a misspeak such as "been to 57 states and got four more to go" type thing? ROFL!

357 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:42:19pm

re: #351 dareya

But she was stumped edited and manipulated by Katie Couric.

Fixed.

358 TheMatrix31  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:42:23pm

re: #351 dareya

Said Palin: "They are also building schools for the Afghan children so that there is hope and opportunity in our neighboring country of Afghanistan."

As we know there are many others. Bush had some gems too but at least it took him longer to generate so many. Yes, everyone misspeaks at times. And she held her own at the debate. But she was stumped by Katie Couric. Not ready for prime time. She needs to go away.

Of course, Obama never said anything stupid. That's because he struggled to formulate sentences...ehahehuhuhehahehuhuehahehu--hope!

359 USBeast  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:42:26pm

re: #314 TheMatrix31

It's not about endorsing her from now, it's about the way he's saying it.

How the hell would you like him to say it?

360 dareya  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:42:30pm

re: #329 Outrider

On the one interview where the edited portions were shown? Came off bad. Other speeches? Public rallies? Public speeches? Great. And the crowds roared their approval as such.

Where is your inanity?


Her parrot-like mantra of the evil "elite liberal media", the most tired of all arguements employed to explain away the conservative party's failures.

361 VegasRick  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:43:04pm

re: #351 dareya

Said Palin: "They are also building schools for the Afghan children so that there is hope and opportunity in our neighboring country of Afghanistan."

As we know there are many others. Bush had some gems too but at least it took him longer to generate so many. Yes, everyone misspeaks at times. And she held her own at the debate. But she was stumped by Katie Couric. Not ready for prime time. She needs to go away.

*Channeling Mandy*
Go piss up a rope, idiot.

362 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:43:06pm

re: #351 dareya

Said Palin: "They are also building schools for the Afghan children so that there is hope and opportunity in our neighboring country of Afghanistan."

As we know there are many others. Bush had some gems too but at least it took him longer to generate so many. Yes, everyone misspeaks at times. And she held her own at the debate. But she was stumped by Katie Couric. Not ready for prime time. She needs to go away.

For every one "inanity" you can find for Palin, I can find at least seven from Biden and four from Obama.

363 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:43:06pm

re: #351 dareya

Said Palin: "They are also building schools for the Afghan children so that there is hope and opportunity in our neighboring country of Afghanistan."

As we know there are many others. Bush had some gems too but at least it took him longer to generate so many. Yes, everyone misspeaks at times. And she held her own at the debate. But she was stumped by Katie Couric. Not ready for prime time. She needs to go away.

And 0bama's mis-statement? 57 states? Come on.

364 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:43:12pm

re: #350 albusteve

no it isnt but it's not a fighter plane...his were static ground targets...I'm not demeaning the guys service but that's the fact

A-4 was Air-to-Mud, close air to mud. CAS (Close Air Support) wasn't for wimps. This was mark one mod one eye balls putting dumb bombs on target. No GPS, no laser designators. Get close, line up the bird on target, get close and release.

365 gregg  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:43:49pm

Hey Arizonans, Any chance McCain could face a serious threat in the 2010 primaries? Any rising stars amongst the Republicans that will take him on? I'd send some money his/her way...

366 dareya  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:44:05pm

re: #340 jcm

And Obambi isn't out of league
A Marxist community organizer is his creds to be POTUS, what's he run other than a Marxist cell in this country?

Dangerous? Everyone in Obama's life is a friggin' Marxist, that's not dangerous?

Scary?
National Health care, National Civilian Security Force, force coal out of business, Nationalized Auto makers? Scary?

What's you been smokin' Willis?

So you're saying she's as bad as him then?

367 Fat Jolly Penguin  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:44:07pm

re: #351 dareya

So being "stumped" by Katie Couric kills someone's qualification for the Vice Presidency. Gotcha.

/again, WTF!

368 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:44:12pm

re: #363 Sharmuta

And 0bama's mis-statement? 57 states? Come on.

What about the Auschwitz liberation?

369 Outrider  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:44:47pm

re: #360 dareya

Her parrot-like mantra of the evil "elite liberal media", the most tired of all arguements employed to explain away the conservative party's failures.

Ah. I forgot all about the "most tired of all arguments", the "Evil elite liberal media" didn't I...what? what is this about? Parrot-like mantra? Oh crap. Go away little boy.

370 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:45:07pm

re: #366 dareya

So you're saying she's as bad as him then?

No, that he's worse than her.

371 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:45:16pm

re: #364 jcm

A-4 was Air-to-Mud, close air to mud. CAS (Close Air Support) wasn't for wimps. This was mark one mod one eye balls putting dumb bombs on target. No GPS, no laser designators. Get close, line up the bird on target, get close and release.

It's the get close part that gets 'em... the targets have a bad habit of shooting tons of 20mm rounds at you while trying.

372 summergurl  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:45:45pm

re: #283 dareya

Palin is dangerous and scary. So far out of her league that it was painful to watch. (Am I missing something?)


yeah... a brain.

373 VegasRick  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:45:46pm

re: #362 gclaghorn

For every one "inanity" you can find for Palin, I can find at least seven from Biden and four from Obama.

"Stand up Chuck, let em' all see ya"
Oh, wait!

374 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:45:58pm
375 Joan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:46:00pm

re: #351 dareya

Said Palin: "But she was stumped by Katie Couric. Not ready for prime time. She needs to go away.

Ah. A McCain staffer, are we?

376 Killian Bundy  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:46:25pm

re: #304 USBeast

Let us remember that John McCain is a fighter pilot. He has been trained to follow the OODA Loop: Observe, Orient, Decide, Act.

Yeah, and that experience worked so well in the campaign.

/Obama got inside it and flamed his ass!

377 Outrider  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:46:26pm

re: #366 dareya

So you're saying she's as bad as him then?

You really are pretty selective as to what you infer from someone's writings. I didn't see that anywhere at all.

378 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:46:28pm

re: #364 jcm

A-4 was Air-to-Mud, close air to mud. CAS (Close Air Support) wasn't for wimps. This was mark one mod one eye balls putting dumb bombs on target. No GPS, no laser designators. Get close, line up the bird on target, get close and release.

hey it's a no shit job I know and certainly not for wimps...but air to air is a different thing as you well know...he was not a fighter pilot

379 kcladderman  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:46:30pm

re: #364 jcm

A-4 was Air-to-Mud, close air to mud. CAS (Close Air Support) wasn't for wimps. This was mark one mod one eye balls putting dumb bombs on target. No GPS, no laser designators. Get close, line up the bird on target, get close and release.

Yep about as close as running up and punching the enemy in the nose as you could get in a jet. Fighter pilots get the press but Bomber pilots have some pretty big balls.

380 NYCHardhat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:46:44pm

re: #375 Joan

Ah. A McCain staffer, are we?

No. Just a troll.

381 TheMatrix31  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:46:50pm

re: #359 USBeast

How the hell would you like him to say it?

Not like that. That's a backhanded, political-coated insult.

382 swamprat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:47:02pm

waiting for the "banned books" slander
followed by the 'racist" slander
followed by the "belonged to a separationist party" slander
and don't forget "religious kook" slander
"ruined alaska" outright lie

383 Killian Bundy  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:47:44pm

re: #351 dareya

Said Palin: "They are also building schools for the Afghan children so that there is hope and opportunity in our neighboring country of Afghanistan."

/of course, you have a linky for that, right?

384 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:47:46pm

re: #366 dareya

So you're saying she's as bad as him then?

I'll take a small town mayor, a Governor, one who went after entrenched corruption any day of the week over a Marxist Chicago machine pol.

Apparently you don't have a problem with a Marxist as POTUS.

385 USBeast  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:47:50pm

re: #337 albusteve

he flew A4s...a light agile bomber...no air to air fighter combat...he dodged flak not opposing fighters...different mindset I'm sure...carry on

I stand corrected. He was never in any real danger and his training had nothing to do with his political mindset./

386 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:47:59pm
387 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:48:46pm

re: #382 swamprat

waiting for the "banned books" slander
followed by the 'racist" slander
followed by the "belonged to a separationist party" slander
and don't forget "religious kook" slander
"ruined alaska" outright lie

Calm down, {Dareya} is working on it! Be a little more patient!

/

388 FrogMarch  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:48:58pm

re: #384 jcm

I'll take a small town mayor, a Governor, one who went after entrenched corruption any day of the week over a Marxist Chicago machine pol.

Apparently you don't have a problem with a Marxist as POTUS.

That cannot be emphasized enough.

389 Fat Jolly Penguin  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:49:13pm

re: #346 Sharmuta

Guess I'm out for running.

Sharmuta 2012!

(Pres or VP, I don't much care.)

390 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:49:20pm
391 dareya  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:49:30pm

re: #375 Joan

Ah. A McCain staffer, are we?

McCain? Love the guy. No reservations about him whatsoever - wait, scratch that, he picked Palin and ruined his chances for him and all his supporters. A real shame.

392 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:49:33pm
393 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:49:37pm

re: #368 NYCHardhat

What about the Auschwitz liberation?

The list goes on and on, but we should really hold Sarah to a higher standard. ///

394 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:49:50pm

re: #379 kcladderman

Yep about as close as running up and punching the enemy in the nose as you could get in a jet. Fighter pilots get the press but Bomber pilots have some pretty big balls.

Different skill sets yes. All carried big brass ones.

Biggest brass ones in a cockpit in 'Nam?

Wild Weasels. They were technically air to mud.

395 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:49:59pm

re: #379 kcladderman

Yep about as close as running up and punching the enemy in the nose as you could get in a jet. Fighter pilots get the press but Bomber pilots have some pretty big balls.

yes they do...I'm making the distinction because some people have this idea he was the Red Baron...guns to guns to the last man...but anyone who knows flak knows what a shit yer pants thrill that can be

396 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:50:03pm

re: #389 Fat Jolly Penguin

Sharmuta 2012!

(Pres or VP, I don't much care.)

I've already ordered bumper stickers.

397 maximoso  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:50:11pm
re: #351 dareya

But she was stumped by Katie Couric. Not ready for prime time. She needs to go away.

She was being rolled out horribly by her Presidential candidate - and Sacked by an unfriendly media. There's no way McCain should have agreed upon the format that either of those interviews occurred. Multi-day rollout - with to extend the story for a week. McCain's people were handling her awful and holding her back in her preps. She didn't know how to answer - b/c she was coached by McCain's people in a way that was counter to who she was. As Palin was getting type casted - McCain locked her in a closet rather than let her be herself - so the charactered became what people knew of her.

The Charlie Gibson interview was heavily edited to skew her reasonable responses - to look confused by posting the clarifying second comments to a question - as her actual responses. Newsbusters had the entire transcript before editing - and her responses were fairly intelligent for somebody with zero foreign policy experience prior to being thrust on the national stage.

She handled the media just find in Alaska - and after the General Election - she worked the media just fine.

For the record - I don't recall anybody asking Obama what Supreme Court Decisions he disagreed with - or - what newspapers or magazines he read on a regular basis.

398 gmsc  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:50:12pm

re: #261 albusteve

sorry..I wouldnt have thought of that...you OK?...really

I'm OK now.

I didn't answer right away because I had to lay down, as I usually do after that.

I'm sorry I blew up at you like that.

399 Outrider  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:50:20pm

re: #378 albusteve

hey it's a no shit job I know and certainly not for wimps...but air to air is a different thing as you well know...he was not a fighter pilot

At that period in the VN war, being close air support took a lot more balls than a fighter pilot. There just weren't too many NVA fighter pilots at that time. Getting them fast movers at tree top level and dropping ordinance on the bad guys without whacking your own took some doing all the while not getting hit by ground fire

400 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:50:28pm

I know you guys love Palin but I'm hoping the GOP comes up with a better candidate next time. She's just not presidential material. If she runs she will most likely lose. And she'll probably lose by a wider margin than McCain did. Anything can happen in 4 years but I just don't see her as a serious presidential candidate.

401 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:50:28pm

re: #389 Fat Jolly Penguin

That's sweet, but I'm not electable. For one thing, I'm a woman. Also- I'm a woman who speaks her mind. Not electable.

402 wolfie  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:50:36pm

re: #351 dareya

I was amazed at how few gaffes she had. Far, far fewer than Obama or (heaven help us!) Biden. Leave aside all the Obama idiocies about 57 states and breathalizers for asthmatics, consider his statement that Iran is "a tiny country that is no threat to anyone" or Biden's pronouncement about how we and the French went into Lebanon and cleared out Hezbollah! These are seriously disturbed remarks, not slips of the tongue.

And, BTW, Palin said "THE neighboring country of Afghanistan," in reference to it being a neighbor of Iraq. You need to find a better source of news than the false citation department of the HuffPo.

403 quickjustice  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:50:38pm

John McCain is an American hero, a veteran who suffered barbarous captivity for his country. That said, his staff's treatment of Palin after the election has been petty and scapegoating. His failure to defend her reflects badly on him, and he's not doing himself any favors in the current cycle.

He ran a dreadful campaign, and tanked himself with his reaction to the economic crisis. Palin was one of his few brilliant strokes.

404 kynna  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:50:42pm

I had a dead mouse in the wall this week. The troll smells worse.

But thank goodness Obama's going to be president for 'eight to ten years'. He'll be able to get the UN security council to whip Russia into shape. (in case the troll doesn't get it, these were just two of your own beloved's 'dangerous' inanities).

Dullards hang together, eh?

405 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:51:01pm

re: #351 dareya

But she was stumped by Katie Couric. Not ready for prime time. She needs to go away.

Say, you know who else needs to "go away"?

406 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:51:05pm

re: #391 dareya

McCain? Love the guy. No reservations about him whatsoever - wait, scratch that, he picked Palin and ruined his chances for him and all his supporters. A real shame.

HUH?

McCain had less than zero chance.

Palin is what got him close.

407 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:51:12pm

re: #385 USBeast

I stand corrected. He was never in any real danger and his training had nothing to do with his political mindset./

why do you say that?...I didnt imply that at all...

408 wolfie  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:51:38pm

re: #362 gclaghorn

For every one "inanity" you can find for Palin, I can find at least seven from Biden and four from Obama.

You betcha!

409 Learned Mother of Zion  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:51:43pm

re: #391 dareya

Suicide by Stinky or just generic asshattery?

410 JHW  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:51:54pm

Palin dangerous and scary and unprepared? The woman had only 3 weeks or so of being thrust into the national spotlight and she's expected to be as glib and eloquent as a Mafia lawyer by some. Add to that she was slimed at every turn by absurd B.S. stories at every turn, some which are still trotted out as truth by those who should know better. Add to that a little creative editing and outright misrepresentation by those opposed to her.

Here's what you get when you elect smooth talkers that really, really sound good and smart and all that:

Governor Rod Blagojevich is a polished speaker who can win over elderly women at luncheons in southern Illinois with his earnest attention, and eloquently recite from memory historical passages from the lives of the leaders he says he most admires — Theodore Roosevelt, Abraham Lincoln, Robert F. Kennedy, Alexander Hamilton, Ronald Reagan.


Smooth Talker

Or you get guys like this, another smooth talker that certainly wouldn't deign...the horror...to speak as crudely as someone like Palin.

Investors around the world are counting the spiralling cost of the biggest fraud in history, a $50bn scam that has ensnared billionaire businessmen and tiny charities alike and whose tentacles have stretched further and deeper than anyone imagined

I'll take someone like Sarah any day over these types. A bit more time practicing on her speaking style and a bit more experience on dealing with dishonest media types and she'll be fine. We've had way more than enough of polished speaking, sophisticated sounding...con-men.

411 mattm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:51:57pm

re: #23 Wishing

My guess is that it will be MUCH closer to 6 months.

When (please) they do hopefully they will use it on the most socalis tof the socialist issues that will have the biggest detrimental effect on the American people, say Global Warming, Climate Change or whatever the buzzword of the day is.

412 swamprat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:51:57pm

Don't feel bad, dareya. There were so many lies, spread so quickly, many of us bought 'em. The media appealed to every paranoia they could muster. There was no time to refute, and no time to fact-check.

413 Killian Bundy  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:51:58pm

re: #400 Killgore Trout

I know you guys love Palin but I'm hoping the GOP comes up with a better candidate next time. She's just not presidential material. If she runs she will most likely lose. And she'll probably lose by a wider margin than McCain did. Anything can happen in 4 years but I just don't see her as a serious presidential candidate.

What do you care?

/you're not a Republican and you don't vote anyway

414 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:52:17pm

re: #351 dareya

I see your point and raise your a Biden (or 12).
1. Hillary would have been a better Veep than me (I actually agreed with him, but that isn't the point)
2. "Stand UP!" You know the rest, right?
3.

Let's NOT bail out AIG


4. The wealthy WILL pay more, but that's just patriotic!
5. The McCain Mocking ad was Terrible (what? it was our ad?)
6. Biden says he and Obama do NOT support clean coal - but Obama says he is.
7. Those crazy Bozniaks were something, weren't they?

Need more? Shall we start on Obama?

415 legalpad  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:52:29pm

re: #366 dareya

So you're saying she's as bad as him then?

I would say the attempt to assess her intelligence via media is inconclusive.
The media cannot be the ones to select our candidate if we are to have a Democracy running as it should. Among other things, they have an extreme double-standard applied whenever they wish. They are definitely not qualified to run our country.

Evaluating Palin as a politician is another matter. Both conservatives and Republicans have some decisions to make about who they are going to be.

416 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:52:31pm

re: #395 albusteve

yes they do...I'm making the distinction because some people have this idea he was the Red Baron...guns to guns to the last man...but anyone who knows flak knows what a shit yer pants thrill that can be

Ahh, I get the distinction you're trying to make.
Pure fighter pilot instincts vs. air-to-mud mind set.

417 dareya  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:53:25pm

re: #406 jcm

HUH?

McCain had less than zero chance.

Palin is what got him close.

But McCain maintained an edge in the polls from the beginning through the Palin selection! Donwnhill from there.

418 FrogMarch  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:53:28pm

May we have this in ALL states please? thank you. *oh wait- the dems wont go for it- hurts their prospects for cheating *

419 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:53:28pm
420 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:53:30pm

re: #398 gmsc

I'm OK now.

I didn't answer right away because I had to lay down, as I usually do after that.

I'm sorry I blew up at you like that.

damn I'm glad to hear that...you dont need to feel sorry...I deleted that thing...I had no clue

421 Fat Jolly Penguin  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:53:48pm

{Sharm}

422 Outrider  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:53:58pm

re: #394 jcm

Different skill sets yes. All carried big brass ones.

Biggest brass ones in a cockpit in 'Nam?

Wild Weasels. They were technically air to mud.

They had balls, yeah...I would have to go with meddac Dustoffs. They had a pair so huge they couldn't even walk straight. Could have been the booze though. Nah. They had a pair. Hot LZ, they come in and get the wounded anyway.

423 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:54:13pm

re: #417 dareya

But McCain maintained an edge in the polls from the beginning through the Palin selection! Donwnhill from there.

And the MSM's libel and slander had nothing to do with it, right?

/

424 maximoso  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:54:15pm
re: #391 dareya

McCain? Love the guy. No reservations about him whatsoever - wait, scratch that, he picked Palin and ruined his chances for him and all his supporters. A real shame.

Ah - so you're a Democrat

Got it !

425 engineboss  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:54:48pm

re: #365 gregg
I live in AZ and I havent voted for MCain since his first senate race. After I voted in Nov I had to take a shower. We are trying to press JD Hayworth into running if he can wait. John McCain is a fool. We owe him a lot, but not being president.

426 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:55:03pm

re: #409 Alouette

Suicide by Stinky or just generic asshattery?

This ambitious troll is going for both, it appears.

427 USBeast  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:55:20pm

re: #376 Killian Bundy

Yeah, and that experience worked so well in the campaign.

/Obama got inside it and flamed his ass!

"Flamed"? Yeah, Okay, Obama smoked McCain in the Electoral vote, but the popular vote was a hellova lot closer. I'm not saying he was the perfect candidate or even that he was robbed. I'm just saying that the hammering he's taking here is unjustified.

428 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:55:21pm

re: #399 Outrider

At that period in the VN war, being close air support took a lot more balls than a fighter pilot. There just weren't too many NVA fighter pilots at that time. Getting them fast movers at tree top level and dropping ordinance on the bad guys without whacking your own took some doing all the while not getting hit by ground fire

yes I know...obviously the difference is unimportant...I was just going for acuracy in fact

429 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:55:46pm

How low can its karma go? This troll is like a Rolex watch - takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'!

430 Killian Bundy  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:55:56pm

re: #417 dareya

But McCain maintained an edge in the polls from the beginning through the Palin selection! Donwnhill from there.

Yeah, Palin's fault, that's the ticket!

/couldn't have been the DOW freefalling a few thousand points now could it?

431 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:55:57pm

re: #414 ArmyWife

Get ready for the mother of all ads making fun of my technological skills in my run for POTUS - my links didn't work and it got all wonky. Yikes. The point was made, though.

432 dareya  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:55:58pm

re: #424 maximoso

Ah - so you're a Democrat

Got it !

And what if I were a democrat?

433 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:56:12pm

re: #413 Killian Bundy

I'm a registered independent. If they republicans nominate a lousy candidate I'll vote Dem or stay home again. Palin, Huckabee and Jindal are all candidates that I probably won't vote for.

434 avanti  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:56:15pm

OK, time to be honest, even at the risk of being called a troll. To me and many of my center, and center left friends, Palin seemed at best, a empty vessel. Not stupid, she is bright enough, just ignorant about issues you would not expect her to know as governor of wilderness state. Maybe in 4 years, or eight, she'll be up to speed.
There is no question the base will go nuts over her, but she lost the independents and the center this time around and will again unless she does some homework.
Obama may alo lack experince, but he at least could handle interviews without inspiring a Saturday Night Live skit.
Perhaps she was over handled and would have done better had they had let her go, but the GOP was scared to death to chance it. Just my honest opinion, flame away.

435 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:56:24pm
436 swamprat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:56:28pm

But she did indeed try to get a drunk-driving(twice! While on duty!), child tasering, state trooper fired.

Somehow this was made to be a bad thing.

We must defend the right of our law enforcement officers to drive drunk and taser children.

437 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:56:36pm

re: #417 dareya

But McCain maintained an edge in the polls from the beginning through the Palin selection! Donwnhill from there.

Stay away from the MSM, it's toxic.

Palin boosted McCain, it was the melt down on the Street that finished McCain.

Palin pulled in a lot of conservatives that weren't going to vote period, and a number of independents that were looking for something other than a Beltway insider, and made Chicago Pol.

438 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:56:42pm

re: #432 dareya

And what if I were a democrat?

*pffft* Just spit soda across the room.

439 Spiral  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:56:53pm

Could be the greatest endorsement and highest praise of Palin to date.

440 gmsc  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:57:30pm

re: #432 dareya

And what if I were a democrat?

It would fully explain both why love McCain and can't stand Palin.

441 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:57:33pm

re: #429 gclaghorn


psssttt - that is Timex. I got your back, though.

442 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:57:38pm

re: #434 avanti

No complaints from me.

443 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:57:52pm

{Fat Jolly Penguin}

444 JeremyR  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:58:00pm

re: #350 albusteve

no it isnt but it's not a fighter plane...his were static ground targets...I'm not demeaning the guys service but that's the fact

The A4 was an ATTACK aircraft. it carried cannon as well as bombs. While not nearly as capable as the A-10, it could tackle fighters in 1 on 1. The aircraft also carried aim missles, but the only confirmed kills by A-4s were with Zuni rockets.
It was used as a replacement for f-4 Phantoms with the Blue Angels because of its capabilities. Its most notable weakness was a lack of radar.

445 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:58:27pm

re: #436 swamprat

Its a free country, after all.

///

446 William_Ryan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:58:31pm

Honestly, we're a lot better off that he lost. If he won, he'd sabotage her in every way possible and leave such a bad taste in the country's mouth that she'd have no chance of winning the presidency next election. Obama is reaching over the aisle and honestly, acting a lot more conservative than I'd have ever expected McCain to. If he won, he'd be moving to the left of Pelosi to make sure he was liked by all the people the rest of us hate.

I just wish he'd leave the party. What he did in Vietnam was very honorable and more than I can say I've ever done, but that man is long gone and doesn't even strike a resemblance to who he is now. If he knew this is what he'd end up like when he was a POW, I can only imagine what he'd have done to himself.

447 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:58:33pm

re: #416 jcm

Ahh, I get the distinction you're trying to make.
Pure fighter pilot instincts vs. air-to-mud mind set.

fear, concentration, talent, a will to get it done...it's all the same in that regard...I've read plenty about flak over Europe and what it can do to a brave man...maybe I'm splitting hairs in that regard...I'm not looking for an argument

448 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:58:46pm

re: #441 ArmyWife

psssttt - that is Timex. I got your back, though.

Same difference. ;)

449 dareya  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:58:49pm

re: #437 jcm

Stay away from the MSM, it's toxic.

Palin boosted McCain, it was the melt down on the Street that finished McCain.

Palin pulled in a lot of conservatives that weren't going to vote period, and a number of independents that were looking for something other than a Beltway insider, and made Chicago Pol.

Could very well have been the economy - good point.

450 swamprat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:58:52pm

We would have complained more, but hilary might have a better choice.
She knows where the bodies are buried.
Hell, she...nevermind

451 Outrider  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:59:09pm

re: #428 albusteve

yes I know...obviously the difference is unimportant...I was just going for acuracy in fact

understand. all a question of perspective I guess. Close air support meant much more to me personally than a fighter pilot. More relevance.

452 invictus1  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:59:10pm

re: #406 jcm

HUH?

McCain had less than zero chance.

Palin is what got him close.

I think McCain had a chance but he would have to have run a perfect campaign - there were just so many challenges and setbacks, the fact that it was still actually a pretty competitive race all the way to the end is pretty amazing. I honestly think he did a couple points better than anyone else would have. But after the economic meltdown, it became just about impossible for him to win.

453 jwb7605  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:59:24pm

re: #363 Sharmuta

And 0bama's mis-statement? 57 states? Come on.

Obviously, you are still bitter and religiously clinging to your gun.
How the heck does one get a "Karma rating" of over 46000?
Is it the icon? Can you make me one?

454 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:59:27pm
455 solomonpanting  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:59:35pm

re: #417 dareya

But McCain maintained an edge in the polls from the beginning through the Palin selection! Donwnhill from there.

I seem to recall something about the economy getting just a wee bit worse, perhaps?

456 dareya  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:59:39pm

re: #438 gclaghorn

*pffft* Just spit soda across the room.

Please explain your meaning here?

457 maximoso  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:59:44pm
re: #400 Killgore Trout

I know you guys love Palin but I'm hoping the GOP comes up with a better candidate next time. She's just not presidential material. If she runs she will most likely lose. And she'll probably lose by a wider margin than McCain did. Anything can happen in 4 years but I just don't see her as a serious presidential candidate.

I found her quite refreshing - not committed to voting for her in a Primary - but will give her a solid consideration. I felt she was rolled onto the national stage about 4 years early - and expect her to be a much better candidate in 2012 if she comes out. She probably would have been a solid candidate if she had gone through the 2 year primary like the rest of tthe Pres nominees. But she was launched by McCain with a very specific campaign role - to excite the base and be the attack dog ( Pretty much what VP nominaitons do )

Best thing about Palin - she's principled - and not afraid to promote her principled Republican values as solutions to the days problems. If more Republicans acted that way - the party would be much stronger and America would be better for it.

458 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 5:59:47pm
459 Outrider  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:00:06pm

Damn. Ten posts and a neg 70. He is going to go for AnneFrance record.

460 nyc redneck  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:00:17pm

we have a megalomaniac pres. elect who thinks he can make the oceans recede.
a fool of that magnitude is not qualified to make even basic decisions.
sarah palin has good basic common sense and a deep love of our country.
that is so much more than the ZERO is bringing to the job.

461 HoosierHoops  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:00:34pm

re: #432 dareya

And what if I were a democrat?

No big deal..But how the hell do you make 9 posts and get a -63 karma.. That has got to be a record..
So who's mama did you call fat?
this i have got to see..

462 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:00:35pm

re: #444 JeremyR

The A4 was an ATTACK aircraft. it carried cannon as well as bombs. While not nearly as capable as the A-10, it could tackle fighters in 1 on 1. The aircraft also carried aim missles, but the only confirmed kills by A-4s were with Zuni rockets.
It was used as a replacement for f-4 Phantoms with the Blue Angels because of its capabilities. Its most notable weakness was a lack of radar.

okay...McCain was a fighter pilot...I stand corrected

463 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:00:41pm

re: #456 dareya

Please explain your meaning here?

You're a moron. How's that explanation work for you?

464 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:01:17pm
465 Killian Bundy  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:01:18pm

re: #427 USBeast

I'm just saying that the hammering he's taking here is unjustified.

/maybe if he'd just shut up and stop thumbing his nose at Republicans and stop kissing Obama's ass

466 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:01:27pm

re: #460 nyc redneck

Wait - are you saying my unicorn isn't coming and I'll have to continue making this damn mortgage payment EVERY month?

467 Joan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:02:13pm

re: #360 dareya

Her parrot-like mantra of the evil "elite liberal media", the most tired of all arguements employed to explain away the conservative party's failures.

You don't like her style. It's true, she doesn't come across like an Ivy Leaguer or a political science major, with a minor in journalism and a poker up her ass.

Her accomplishments, her substance, her strength of character and nerve are admirable. She does need polish, and some time spent governing, and she will go from strength to strength. We'll see what the future holds, 2012 is a long way down the road. And, she's in danger of being overexposed--people bore easily.

468 dareya  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:02:19pm

re: #461 HoosierHoops

No big deal..But how the hell do you make 9 posts and get a -63 karma.. That has got to be a record..
So who's mama did you call fat?
this i have got to see..

Sorry but what does -63 karma mean?

469 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:02:19pm

re: #452 invictus1

I think McCain had a chance but he would have to have run a perfect campaign - there were just so many challenges and setbacks, the fact that it was still actually a pretty competitive race all the way to the end is pretty amazing. I honestly think he did a couple points better than anyone else would have. But after the economic meltdown, it became just about impossible for him to win.

The biggest factor IMHO?

The MSM. Level the MSM coverage, McCain wins by 5.

470 legalpad  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:02:44pm

re: #434 avanti

No flame. But all the other candidates actually did worse by the standards with which she was judged. I think people try to sound objective when they are critical of her, but I think it is really simply that they don't like her folksy populist style. I have yet to read any criticism of her on news or forum which does not follow this pattern.

471 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:03:06pm
472 Joan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:03:20pm

re: #402 wolfie

Bulls eye!

473 JeremyR  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:03:29pm

re: #379 kcladderman

Yep about as close as running up and punching the enemy in the nose as you could get in a jet. Fighter pilots get the press but Bomber pilots have some pretty big balls.

Bombers do it from 20,000 feet up. the Attack boys get close and personal. The A-4 was good at close and personal.
That is the one thing I truely respect about McCain. He was a heck of a pilot IMHO.

474 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:03:31pm

re: #468 dareya

Sorry but what does -63 karma mean?

You're not fooling anyone.

475 USBeast  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:03:46pm

re: #407 albusteve

why do you say that?...I didnt imply that at all...

I stand corrected again. Just for the record, what were you implying?

476 dareya  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:03:47pm

re: #467 Joan

You don't like her style. It's true, she doesn't come across like an Ivy Leaguer or a political science major, with a minor in journalism and a poker up her ass.

Her accomplishments, her substance, her strength of character and nerve are admirable. She does need polish, and some time spent governing, and she will go from strength to strength. We'll see what the future holds, 2012 is a long way down the road. And, she's in danger of being overexposed--people bore easily.


Interesting points and I appreciate your ideas.

477 Joan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:03:50pm

re: #468 dareya

Sorry but what does -63 karma mean?

you are busted

478 kcladderman  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:04:09pm

re: #464 Iron Fist

Charles must be out. Or maybe he's enjoying watching the troll humiliate himself. I have to admit I'm amused :-)

Oh I don't think it is doing anything that would get it deleted or banned. Unless of course it turns out to be sock puppet of a previously banned person.

479 FrogMarch  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:04:52pm

Just a little reminder that our new VP is breathtakingly gaffe prone.

Behold, the Gaffe Master.

480 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:05:13pm
481 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:05:13pm

re: #451 Outrider

understand. all a question of perspective I guess. Close air support meant much more to me personally than a fighter pilot. More relevance.

nothing like an A10 in orbit for a ground pounder I bet!...and btw my uncle flew Mustangs over France and Gremany...a magnificent attack plane...

482 VegasRick  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:05:13pm

re: #468 dareya

Sorry but what does -63 karma mean?

It means you suck.

483 Outrider  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:05:16pm

re: #466 ArmyWife

Wait - are you saying my unicorn isn't coming and I'll have to continue making this damn mortgage payment EVERY month?

Don't know. Is your unicorn breathing hard? ;-)>

484 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:05:33pm
485 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:06:29pm
486 JeremyR  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:06:35pm

re: #456 dareya

Please explain your meaning here?

LOL works, or ROFLMAO@U

487 DEZes  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:06:47pm

Picking a VP is not a game, a VP can become POTUS in the event of a tragedy.
That being said, a presidential candidate had better have faith in his running mates ability to be the POTUS, because they damn well maybe.
If John McCain can not endorse her now, he never should have.
He could easily changed his mind in four years, we all could.
But this sends a signal that he used her for his own gratification.

488 jwb7605  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:07:08pm

re: #482 VegasRick

It means you suck.

Good grief. If he has to ask that, his Karma was already below zero.

489 dareya  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:07:14pm

re: #482 VegasRick

It means you suck.

I welcome and respect people's opnions here. You don't suck.

490 HoosierHoops  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:07:18pm

re: #468 dareya

Sorry but what does -63 karma mean?

Oh Lawdy..listen my friend..It's ok you are new here and 63 lizards took the time to say your posting sucks..That's cool.. I don't know what you said in 9 postings but you can make a come back.
I'm pulling for ya...I always find it nice to have an introduction that doesn't place you in your mothers basement on a monday night..But that's just me.

491 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:07:24pm
492 shiplord kirel  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:07:25pm

re: #360 dareya

Her parrot-like mantra of the evil "elite liberal media", the most tired of all arguements employed to explain away the conservative party's failures.

Yes, just dismiss this "mantra" since you have no rational response to the mountains of evidence, analysis, proof, and even confessions that demonstrate the overwhelming presence and importance of media bias.
LGF has poured scorn on this kind of laughably crude media denialism for years. Thomas Frank, a lefty himself, spilled the beans on the media culture over a decade ago when he wrote The Conquest of Cool: Business Culture, Counterculture, and the Rise of Hip Consumerism.
Bottom line: The left/liberal political culture as we know it today is little more than an advertising gimmick run amok.

Some right-wingers are fond of saying that the media are the propaganda arm of the Democratic Party. It is the other way round: The Democrats are the political arm of the media-industrial complex.

493 kcladderman  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:07:39pm

re: #473 JeremyR

Bombers do it from 20,000 feet up. the Attack boys get close and personal. The A-4 was good at close and personal.
That is the one thing I truely respect about McCain. He was a heck of a pilot IMHO.

Just using my flight deck lingo A= Attack=Bombs F=Fighter= no bombs
All Navy planes that carry bombs are called attack aircraft.

494 wolfie  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:07:55pm

re: #434 avanti

I certainly won't fuss at you much. The problem I have is with Obama supporters who express that opinion. Obama's resume is far flimsier than Palin's and his gaffery both wider and deeper.

Palin is still young. She should finish out her term as governor and then maybe run for the Senate. Assuming she doesn't catch the DC virus and become a tool, we could certainly use a reformer like her in Congress.

495 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:08:05pm

re: #475 USBeast

I stand corrected again. Just for the record, what were you implying?

that the A4 is not a fighter regardless of its cannon...it was designed to put steel on target and it was pretty good for that as were it's pilots

496 Outrider  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:08:19pm

re: #481 albusteve

nothing like an A10 in orbit for a ground pounder I bet!...and btw my uncle flew Mustangs over France and Gremany...a magnificent attack plane...

A10s are awesome. I'll never forget looking down from a low ridgepoint at the top of a pair of A10s. Impressive.

A couple of Marine pilots in A10s can open a can of whupass sure enough.

497 So?  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:09:39pm

re: #3 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Senator McCain, go away.

He did, the day he was nominated as the GOP candidate.

498 Killgore Trout  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:09:50pm

re: #487 DEZes

I suspect McCain didn't know how bad she was until after he nominated her. Either that or else he simply couldn't find anyone else willing to take the slot. Either way this story confirms my suspicion that McCain ran a lousy campaign and Palin was not a good VP choice.

499 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:10:31pm

Speaking of Veeps, here's Dick...


In another interview with conservative radio host Rush Limbaugh, Cheney said Guantanamo "has been very well run" and the incoming administration of President-elect Barack Obama would have a difficult time closing it.

"Once you go out and capture a bunch of terrorists, as we did in Afghanistan and elsewhere, then you've got to have some place to put them," he said.

"If you bring them here to the US and put them in our local court system, then they are entitled to all kinds of rights that we extend only to American citizens. Remember, these are unlawful combatants.

"Guantanamo has been very, very valuable," he said. "And I think they (the Obama administration) will discover that trying to close it is a very hard proposition."

Dick remembers why "they" were locked up there, in the first place! Good for you, sir.

500 Joan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:10:53pm

re: #470 legalpad

No flame. But all the other candidates actually did worse by the standards with which she was judged. I think people try to sound objective when they are critical of her, but I think it is really simply that they don't like her folksy populist style. I have yet to read any criticism of her on news or forum which does not follow this pattern.

I have to agree.
For the record, lots of pretty good people in "my world" didn't like Palin, they all say the same things that avanti and dareya were saying here, same attitudes towards her, too--they don't admire the strengths, they don't see the strengths. With all their polish and verbiage, the objections are on superficial qualities, not substance. One critique that bears up for me is that she needs time.

501 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:10:59pm

BBQ is just about ready...

But that's way to much grill for this one.

502 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:11:15pm

re: #485 Iron Fist

It means you are universally loved. The bigger the negative number, the more impressive you are. Keep up the good work.

Well, hon, you must be universally hated, then! LOL.

503 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:12:21pm

re: #470 legalpad

re: #500 Joan

Both of you spot on, imo.

504 dareya  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:12:38pm

re: #490 HoosierHoops

Oh Lawdy..listen my friend..It's ok you are new here and 63 lizards took the time to say your posting sucks..That's cool.. I don't know what you said in 9 postings but you can make a come back.
I'm pulling for ya...I always find it nice to have an introduction that doesn't place you in your mothers basement on a monday night..But that's just me.

Thanks. I enjoy this site and am interested in what people have to say here.

505 JeremyR  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:12:47pm

re: #493 kcladderman

Just using my flight deck lingo A= Attack=Bombs F=Fighter= no bombs
All Navy planes that carry bombs are called attack aircraft.

But the F-4 carried bombs, as did the F-8 in certain rolls. IIRC, the tomcats were also used in a CAS roll in Afghanistan where their tot was longer then the Whorenuts.

506 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:13:04pm

re: #496 Outrider

A10s are awesome. I'll never forget looking down from a low ridgepoint at the top of a pair of A10s. Impressive.

A couple of Marine pilots in A10s can open a can of whupass sure enough.

it's not beyond me that since WWII attack and fighter have melded into some fine planes...both the F16 and the F/A18s are damned good down on the deck...but they dont have the A10 cannon!...WOOK OUUT!

507 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:13:15pm
508 jwb7605  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:13:20pm

re: #493 kcladderman

Just using my flight deck lingo A= Attack=Bombs F=Fighter= no bombs
All Navy planes that carry bombs are called attack aircraft.

Sorry. I was in VF-24 (set the wayback machine), and "we" flew the F-8J Crusader. They routinely would put a couple of 250-pound bombs on the wing. (Kept the Sidewinders on, though). Also kept the 4 20mm cannons armed and ready.

You'd be correct to say "almost all" or "nearly all", and the "F" and the "A" letters are correct. Remember, today, they launch the FA-18 series.

509 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:13:58pm

re: #402 wolfie

I was amazed at how few gaffes she had. Far, far fewer than Obama or (heaven help us!) Biden. Leave aside all the Obama idiocies about 57 states and breathalizers for asthmatics, consider his statement that Iran is "a tiny country that is no threat to anyone" or Biden's pronouncement about how we and the French went into Lebanon and cleared out Hezbollah! These are seriously disturbed remarks, not slips of the tongue.

And, BTW, Palin said "THE neighboring country of Afghanistan," in reference to it being a neighbor of Iraq. You need to find a better source of news than the false citation department of the HuffPo.

And I am puzzled by the complete silence of Biden since the election. Have not heard one peep from him, not one. Where is he?

510 maximoso  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:14:15pm
re: #432 dareya

And what if I were a democrat?

It would explain why you liked McCain. He's done more to advance your party's agenda than his own party.

McCain never speaks bad of Democrats

McCain loves to rip his fellow Republicans when it gives him favor in the media.

McCain never had a chance of winning - b/c teh things Democrats liked about him were the things that would make him an awful president. How did you want him to lead - take a Democratic platform and constantly fight with his own party for the next 4 years - til we were completely decimated. McCain had to pretend to be an actual Republican to win the White House. But the Democrats that support him - do so b/c he's fighting for " their party ".

Hey Derya, Here's a quiz for you

Who are the moderate Democrats that rip their own party - that get invited on Sunday Political shows? You know - the ones that want to reach across the aisle to work for a good idea that the Republicans have come up with.

511 solomonpanting  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:14:40pm

re: #360 dareya

Her parrot-like mantra of the evil "elite liberal media", the most tired of all arguements employed to explain away the conservative party's failures.


re: #434 avanti

To me and many of my center, and center left friends, Palin seemed at best, a empty vessel. Not stupid, she is bright enough, just ignorant about issues you would not expect her to know as governor of wilderness state.


There is a connection here. Palin and McCain were anally vetted BEFORE the election. It's one's guess if Obama and Biden will ever face such scrutiny.

512 JeremyR  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:15:04pm

re: #496 Outrider

A10s are awesome. I'll never forget looking down from a low ridgepoint at the top of a pair of A10s. Impressive.

A couple of Marine pilots in A10s can open a can of whupass sure enough.

What MAW flew the A-10? I thought they were soley an Air Force plane.
IIRC, the Marines flew the a-4, replaced it with the Harrier, and suplemented it with the Whorenut.

513 Geepers  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:15:08pm

jcm (#501),

Now that's a BBQ.

514 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:15:13pm

re: #509 reine.de.tout

And I am puzzled by the complete silence of Biden since the election. Have not heard one peep from him, not one. Where is he?

rehab I think

515 LGoPs  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:15:43pm

Of course McCain will now become the media's favorite republican again...
///

Their favor ain't worth it. As a matter of fact, the media's favor should be a goddammed disqualifier for any real conservative...

516 wolfie  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:16:08pm

re: #509 reine.de.tout

I've been wondering the same thing but am afraid to ask.
I think we are all---left, right, and center-- hoping he has just gone away! And we won't speak his name for fear he may appear!

517 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:16:15pm

re: #514 albusteve

rehab I think

I honestly don't think rehab will fix what's wrong with him.

518 swamprat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:16:46pm

re: #489 dareya

I welcome and respect people's opinions here. You don't suck.

Stick around. It's a tough room. Defend and debate intelligently and you will win respect. Many of us are dems, by the way. Also we have posters from other countries. Atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, deviants of all stripes, retired car salesmen, lawyers, techies, trekies and civil servants.
click on a football or icon to see karma.

519 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:16:49pm

re: #512 JeremyR

What MAW flew the A-10? I thought they were soley an Air Force plane.
IIRC, the Marines flew the a-4, replaced it with the Harrier, and suplemented it with the Whorenut.

what's a whorenut?

520 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:16:53pm
521 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:16:54pm
522 Geepers  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:16:58pm

reine.de.tout (#509),

Obama's ego is too big to share the stage with anyone.

523 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:17:08pm

re: #483 Outrider

Oh dear. I'm blushing.

/believe me?

524 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:17:54pm
525 jwb7605  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:18:02pm

re: #509 reine.de.tout

And I am puzzled by the complete silence of Biden since the election. Have not heard one peep from him, not one. Where is he?

Today that he hired the top Time Editor as his press secretary.

The press will be less biased, apparently, starting today.

526 legalpad  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:18:06pm

re: #500 Joan

I have to agree.
For the record, lots of pretty good people in "my world" didn't like Palin, they all say the same things that avanti and dareya were saying here, same attitudes towards her, too--they don't admire the strengths, they don't see the strengths. With all their polish and verbiage, the objections are on superficial qualities, not substance. One critique that bears up for me is that she needs time.

I agree. But that is more a possibility of hope. One could say that McCain, Obama, and Biden need time also, but they have no actually ability or desire to improve in the areas they need to. She has both.

527 summergurl  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:18:08pm

re: #456 dareya

Please explain your meaning here?


What country are you from? Your syntax is like listening to Hal...

528 USBeast  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:18:32pm

re: #465 Killian Bundy

/maybe if he'd just shut up and stop thumbing his nose at Republicans and stop kissing Obama's ass

For the record let me state that I was completely and utterly opposed to the election of Obama. That said, I cannot be the only one here who has noticed that, so far, he has demonstrated a pragmatism that has infuriated the Left and given the Middle/Right a glimmer of hope.

Everything might change when the swearing in is over and the swearing at begins but it is just barely possible that Obama might not be the beast from hell.

That may change.

529 jwb7605  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:18:34pm

re: #519 albusteve

what's a whorenut?

FA-18 Hornet, I think. Maybe not.

530 Killian Bundy  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:18:56pm

re: #468 dareya

Sorry but what does -63 karma mean?

/it means you'll never get the record unless you try harder

531 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:18:58pm

re: #524 Iron Fist

I think they have him sequestered in an undisclosed location. With a cork in his mouth.

a big ass cork

532 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:19:34pm
533 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:19:53pm

re: #529 jwb7605

FA-18 Hornet, I think. Maybe not.

ah...I get it

534 HoosierHoops  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:19:56pm

re: #523 ArmyWife

Oh dear. I'm blushing.

/believe me?

The only way I'm believing that is you and mr.armywife were caught on a beach in Hawaii Naked..Other than that..Not buying it.
/

535 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:20:17pm

re: #509 reine.de.tout

In the basement. They gave him the very important job of picking out the wood for the new basketball court. A lot of trips to home depot and such are involved with this. He was given explicit instructions NOT to stop to talk to anyone, due to the urgency of his assigment and all.

536 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:20:19pm

re: #522 Geepers

reine.de.tout (#509),

Obama's ego is too big to share the stage with anyone.

Prolly so.

537 nyc redneck  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:20:20pm

re: #466 ArmyWife

Wait - are you saying my unicorn isn't coming and I'll have to continue making this damn mortgage payment EVERY month?

oh, you too, waiting on the unicorn.
i'm so worried i won't get the white one w/ the pink mane and tail.
i've got the stall built in the ct. yard. and bales of hay and feed ready.
i can't wait to ride low over central park, the wind blowing thru my hair.
maybe the O will have them delivered for christmas.
yay.

538 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:20:32pm

re: #529 jwb7605

FA-18 Hornet, I think. Maybe not.

Plastic Bug is about the only alternative I've heard to the -18.

Haven't heard that one.

539 kcladderman  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:20:36pm

re: #505 JeremyR

But the F-4 carried bombs, as did the F-8 in certain rolls. IIRC, the tomcats were also used in a CAS roll in Afghanistan where their tot was longer then the Whorenuts.

That is true but once again I am just going from my flight deck lingo. I know F4s could carry bombs though I could not tell you if the Navy used them for that purpose. We had F 14s A6s A7s and all have been replaced by the FA 18.

540 DEZes  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:20:50pm

re: #498 Killgore Trout

re: #498 Killgore Trout


I think McCain used Sarah simply to offset the minority vote, but hell I have been wrong before.
I like Sarah, I think she is honest and sincere, hopefully she will bloom and grow in wisdom.

541 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:20:51pm

re: #525 jwb7605

Today that he hired the top Time Editor as his press secretary.

The press will be less biased, apparently, starting today.

LOL.
biden has hired a press secretary?
What for?
Has he said anything since the election?

542 JeremyR  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:21:04pm

re: #519 albusteve

what's a whorenut?

F/A 18s. I dislike them for several reasons and think the Navy screwed up when they ditched the Tomcats.
The Tomcat was faster, carried more, better climb, better turn, and longer time over target. The Hornet was not a step down, it was a fall down.

543 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:21:29pm

re: #528 USBeast

For the record let me state that I was completely and utterly opposed to the election of Obama. That said, I cannot be the only one here who has noticed that, so far, he has demonstrated a pragmatism that has infuriated the Left and given the Middle/Right a glimmer of hope.

Everything might change when the swearing in is over and the swearing at begins but it is just barely possible that Obama might not be the beast from hell.

That may change.

*scoff*

544 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:21:32pm
545 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:21:48pm
546 Joan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:22:19pm

re: #468 dareya

Sorry but what does -63 karma mean?

you're out of uniform...forgot your hairy asshat

547 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:22:39pm

re: #537 nyc redneck

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but Unicorns don't fly. Pegasuses (Pegasi?). Maybe Unicorns teleport.

548 Charles Johnson  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:22:45pm

'dareya' is another sock puppet, previously registered under several names, including 'penitentman'.

And with that proper eulogy, I bid him adieu, again.

549 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:22:46pm
550 jwb7605  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:22:49pm

re: #541 reine.de.tout

LOL.
biden has hired a press secretary?
What for?
Has he said anything since the election?

REINE!
Whazzup with the cookbook?

551 USBeast  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:22:50pm

re: #543 gclaghorn

*scoff*

Reason?

552 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:23:33pm

re: #551 USBeast

Reason?

TFK gets it right in #549.

553 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:23:45pm

re: #519 albusteve

what's a whorenut?

Sometimes you fell like a whorenut, sometimes you don't.

554 jwb7605  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:24:00pm

re: #548 Charles

'dareya' is another sock puppet, previously registered under several names, including 'penitentman'.

And with that proper eulogy, I bid him adieu, again.

I think earlier somebody won something guessing it would be quick.

555 DEZes  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:24:07pm

re: #468 dareya

Sorry but what does -63 karma mean?

It means that Guinness will be calling on you very soon!

556 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:24:17pm
557 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:24:20pm

re: #539 kcladderman

That is true but once again I am just going from my flight deck lingo. I know F4s could carry bombs though I could not tell you if the Navy used them for that purpose. We had F 14s A6s A7s and all have been replaced by the FA 18.

EA-6B are being replaced by the a variant of the Super Hornet. EA-18G Growler.

558 Achilles Tang  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:24:46pm

Good grief. Do we really want to start another election campaign for the next four years already? Do we have such blinkers on that there's nobody out there but Palin; already?

She's cool in many ways, but truth is that she has many of the same flaws that Obama did; meaning weak track record. Are there no other Republican governors/senators/congressmen out there with balls and brains? If there aren't, the Republicans deserve to lose next time too.

559 JeremyR  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:25:01pm

re: #539 kcladderman

That is true but once again I am just going from my flight deck lingo. I know F4s could carry bombs though I could not tell you if the Navy used them for that purpose. We had F 14s A6s A7s and all have been replaced by the FA 18.

Sad but true.

560 kcladderman  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:25:14pm

re: #508 jwb7605

Sorry. I was in VF-24 (set the wayback machine), and "we" flew the F-8J Crusader. They routinely would put a couple of 250-pound bombs on the wing. (Kept the Sidewinders on, though). Also kept the 4 20mm cannons armed and ready.

You'd be correct to say "almost all" or "nearly all", and the "F" and the "A" letters are correct. Remember, today, they launch the FA-18 series.

True True what I was actually trying to point out was we did not launch Bombers per say but planes that bombed not bombers but attack aircraft.

561 nyc redneck  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:25:19pm

re: #547 ArmyWife

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but Unicorns don't fly. Pegasuses (Pegasi?). Maybe Unicorns teleport.

he said my unicorn could fly. i believe him.
:D

562 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:25:49pm

re: #542 JeremyR

F/A 18s. I dislike them for several reasons and think the Navy screwed up when they ditched the Tomcats.
The Tomcat was faster, carried more, better climb, better turn, and longer time over target. The Hornet was not a step down, it was a fall down.

re: #542 JeremyR

F/A 18s. I dislike them for several reasons and think the Navy screwed up when they ditched the Tomcats.
The Tomcat was faster, carried more, better climb, better turn, and longer time over target. The Hornet was not a step down, it was a fall down.

I thought the F14 was for fleet security only and that the all purpose cheap to maintain whorenot was the wave of the future...I dont know a whole lot...cute little thing tho.../

563 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:25:52pm

re: #524 Iron Fist

I think they have him sequestered in an undisclosed location. With a cork in his mouth.

re: #531 albusteve

a big ass cork

re: #535 ArmyWife

In the basement. They gave him the very important job of picking out the wood for the new basketball court. A lot of trips to home depot and such are involved with this. He was given explicit instructions NOT to stop to talk to anyone, due to the urgency of his assigment and all.

Are ya'll all in the same room?

564 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:25:57pm

re: #547 ArmyWife

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but Unicorns don't fly. Pegasuses (Pegasi?). Maybe Unicorns teleport.

How dare you dispute the preachings of The One! The Ministry of Truth will be calling on you shortly...

/

565 avanti  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:26:01pm

re: #494 wolfie

I certainly won't fuss at you much. The problem I have is with Obama supporters who express that opinion. Obama's resume is far flimsier than Palin's and his gaffery both wider and deeper.

Palin is still young. She should finish out her term as governor and then maybe run for the Senate. Assuming she doesn't catch the DC virus and become a tool, we could certainly use a reformer like her in Congress.

To be honest, Palin is way too far right socially to appeal to me even though I am a fiscal conservative. The GOP will need to appeal to voters they may not agree with to win. The current trend with the GOP is toward a old, white voter party, and like it or not, that demographic is shrinking. I was ready to support McCain before he moved toward the religious right with the Palin pick. The Catch 22 for McCain, is that he could either have the base and lose the center with Palin or lose the base and pick up the middle without her. Either way, he was doomed, even against a much less experienced candidate.
Let me be clear, I don't want only one party to choose from in the future, but my last vote that you'd approve of was for Reagan.

566 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:26:09pm

re: #556 buzzsawmonkey

Still time to buy Rock 'Em, Sock 'Em Sockpuppets™ for this Christmas!

567 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:26:24pm

re: #563 reine.de.tout

Is your lizard cam not working? We are wearing matching jammies, too.

568 puritanicalrightwingnutjob  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:26:25pm

re: #84 Iron Fist

I'll do you one better. We should have closed *proportional* primaries that last into June so that the McCains on our side can't grab up the early states and coast through the process without a shakedown period. A bit part of the reason that the Wright Card and the Clingergate had no effect during the general election was that Obama had plenty of time to explain it all away in the primaries and it just became old news. McCain didn't have a public trial by fire in the spring and early summer, so not only did he not have a chance to get in the groove of campaigning nationally to a wide and varied audience, it's simply the case that no one was publicizing the dirt on him and he had no time to formulate his answer.

Remember, Wrightgate lasted for several weeks, and the One's polls took a 10-point dive. If that had been fresh news mid-October, it might have been 52-47 the other direction by November.

Survival of the fittest is healthy, in life, in economics, and in politics. It pays off for sports teams, for American capitalism, and it payed off for the Democrats this cycle. We should encourage more of it on our side.

569 OldLineTexan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:26:29pm

re: #524 Iron Fist

I think they have him sequestered in an undisclosed location. With a cork in his mouth.

I think they corked everything, just to be sure.

Joe is locked up tighter than a Spanish virgin with 72 duennas...

570 JeremyR  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:26:53pm

re: #548 Charles

'dareya' is another sock puppet, previously registered under several names, including 'penitentman'.

And with that proper eulogy, I bid him adieu, again.

Just curious, but how do you tell?

571 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:26:56pm

re: #553 Walter L. Newton

Sometimes you fell like a whorenut, sometimes you don't.

ha!...gro-ner

572 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:26:58pm
573 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:27:09pm

re: #567 ArmyWife

Is your lizard cam not working? We are wearing matching jammies, too.

The ones with the footsies?

574 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:27:22pm

re: #564 gclaghorn

I am so highlighted in that Malcontent book. Y'all are gonna miss me, though after I get truthed.

575 swamprat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:27:26pm

re: #541 reine.de.tout

LOL.
biden has hired a press secretary?
What for?
Has he said anything since the election?

It's a filter, stupid.

I mean;

It'a stupid filter.

576 maddogg  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:27:38pm

re: #468 dareya

Sorry but what does -63 karma mean?

Duh. Guess you just dropped in to crap on the carpet.

577 CynicalConservative  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:28:09pm

re: #570 JeremyR

Just curious, but how do you tell?

Ancient Chinese secret... ;-)

578 Geepers  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:28:10pm

buzzsawmonkey (#556),

Still time to buy Rock 'Em, Sock 'Em Sockpuppets™ for this Christmas!

LOL.

579 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:28:14pm

re: #565 avanti

I'm white, but not old. She appeals to me.

580 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:28:31pm

re: #563 reine.de.tout

Are ya'll all in the same room?

I'm here in the Cork Dispensory

581 Joan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:28:54pm

re: #528 USBeast

It is unlikely that he will cease being a socialist. It may be, though, that the changes he wants to make will have to be in slower increments than the hard left would prefer. The country has to be stabilized enough to absorb his change agenda. This is a guy who plans all the way to the end, he is planning on 8 years not 4 years. He will attempt drastic change and the first tier appointments will phase out with his second tier people prepped and ready to move maybe year 3 in the agenda. It's what I think, anyway--he is a genuine, sincere, socialist man of the left.

582 kcladderman  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:29:03pm

re: #557 jcm

EA-6B are being replaced by the a variant of the Super Hornet. EA-18G Growler.

Oh man another one gone now I feel even older.

583 reine.de.tout  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:29:10pm

re: #550 jwb7605

REINE!
Whazzup with the cookbook?

COOKBOOK:
It is about ready. A late submission recipe has to be added, and then it can be uploaded.

JUST TODAY we got a volunteer to do the cover art. So when that's done, the book will be ready to go.

This has been a real team effort, with many contributions of time from folks who've had gone through some tough times - one a layoff.

So it's taken awhile, but I think everyone will like it. It was produced by amateurs, but it was reviewed and edited several times, so I'm hoping there will be very few errors. I think ya'll will like it. I DO.

584 doriangrey  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:29:17pm

re: #468 dareya

Sorry but what does -63 karma mean?

It means pretty much every Lizard signed on right now thinks you are a asshole.

585 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:29:42pm
586 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:29:47pm

re: #351 dareya

Blocked already?

587 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:30:06pm

re: #586 MandyManners

Goners.

588 swamprat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:30:10pm

re: #549 taxfreekiller

Obama is a Chicago machine thug + he is commie to the bone.

He will go way left, into the ditch left, its all he is, commie and dishonest.

I have seen people fly right when something important is dumped in their lap. I think you're right, but I hope you're wrong.

589 LGoPs  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:30:20pm

re: #565 avanti

To be honest, Palin is way too far right socially to appeal to me even though I am a fiscal conservative. The GOP will need to appeal to voters they may not agree with to win. The current trend with the GOP is toward a old, white voter party, and like it or not, that demographic is shrinking. I was ready to support McCain before he moved toward the religious right with the Palin pick. The Catch 22 for McCain, is that he could either have the base and lose the center with Palin or lose the base and pick up the middle without her. Either way, he was doomed, even against a much less experienced candidate.
Let me be clear, I don't want only one party to choose from in the future, but my last vote that you'd approve of was for Reagan.

Yeah, you're right...Palin was almost as bad as Hitler. As a matter of fact, she came to my house and forced me to go to Church and forced me to say grace before meals and...thank Gaia we're rid of her...

///Sheesh

590 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:30:22pm

re: #586 MandyManners

Blocked already?

One-day wonder.

591 JeremyR  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:30:56pm

re: #562 albusteve

I thought the F14 was for fleet security only and that the all purpose cheap to maintain whorenot was the wave of the future...I dont know a whole lot...cute little thing tho.../

In a perfect world, yes. The Tomcats shone in Afghanistan. They could loiter longer then the FA18, and even fight while loaded if they had been forced to.
IN my mind they were a great craft. Their downfall was two fold, costly to maintain, and nothing to fight against. What plane out there flown by our enemies could compare?

592 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:31:27pm

re: #565 avanti

Avanti, Reagan WAS a social conservative.

593 OldLineTexan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:32:11pm

re: #585 buzzsawmonkey

Explain.

Well, see, Palin went to church, and like, she's married with kids, and, uh, er, I think she does santeria with mooses.

//Religious Right my arse

594 kcladderman  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:32:44pm

re: #591 JeremyR

In a perfect world, yes. The Tomcats shone in Afghanistan. They could loiter longer then the FA18, and even fight while loaded if they had been forced to.
IN my mind they were a great craft. Their downfall was two fold, costly to maintain, and nothing to fight against. What plane out there flown by our enemies could compare?

Plus they looked really cool launching at night. Though it did get pretty hot down deck when they went into tension.

595 swamprat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:32:50pm

re: #585 buzzsawmonkey

Explain.

fooled by the MSM
no explanation necessary
probably heard the "banned books" lie

596 jwb7605  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:33:01pm

re: #581 Joan

It is unlikely that he will cease being a socialist. It may be, though, that the changes he wants to make will have to be in slower increments than the hard left would prefer. The country has to be stabilized enough to absorb his change agenda. This is a guy who plans all the way to the end, he is planning on 8 years not 4 years. He will attempt drastic change and the first tier appointments will phase out with his second tier people prepped and ready to move maybe year 3 in the agenda. It's what I think, anyway--he is a genuine, sincere, socialist man of the left.

I respectfully disagree.
With the guvmint owning a 'shareholder' stake in the banking industry, and poised to do the same thing to the auto industry, I think the hard turn will occur before 2010 and will make it through both houses before the public can figure out that an all left-wing guvmint may not be in their interest.
The only thing left is ... wait for it ... health care. Then the guvmint has control of it all.
Remember, it's our only way out.

597 DEZes  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:33:06pm

re: #586 MandyManners

Blocked already?


The Hamsters eated her.

598 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:33:58pm

re: #597 DEZes

The Hamsters eated her.

Oh noes! Hamsters eated sock!

599 LGoPs  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:34:11pm

re: #592 ArmyWife

Avanti, Reagan WAS a social conservative.

I think he first spelled it Raygun but PIMF saved him...
/

600 Geepers  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:34:48pm

OldLineTexan (#593),

I think she does santeria with mooses.

That should be nominated for something.

601 OldLineTexan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:35:04pm

re: #598 gclaghorn

Oh noes! Hamsters eated sock!

Dir Ceiling Cat plz healz my tummy hurts, OK thx bai

602 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:35:19pm

re: #591 JeremyR

In a perfect world, yes. The Tomcats shone in Afghanistan. They could loiter longer then the FA18, and even fight while loaded if they had been forced to.
IN my mind they were a great craft. Their downfall was two fold, costly to maintain, and nothing to fight against. What plane out there flown by our enemies could compare?

I get it...back in Kalamazoo the Air Zoo has one...back in the 90s we had a premier air show and they'd break that thing out...it was the most awsome scariest sob I ever saw just static...it was such a rush to watch it fly then buzz the tarmac at 650mph...good god what a beast!...and huge!

603 JeremyR  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:35:27pm

re: #594 kcladderman

Plus they looked really cool launching at night. Though it did get pretty hot down deck when they went into tension.

I only ever got to see them launch from Ramstein AB. Something about them pointing straight up was memorable.
My favorite fighters are the Tomcat and the Eagle. They just plain look all business.

604 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:35:55pm

re: #587 ArmyWife

Goners.

I see his gamey buttocks were picked clean.

605 Occasional Reader  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:36:08pm

re: #593 OldLineTexan

Well, see, Palin went to church, and like, she's married with kids, and, uh, er, I think she does santeria with mooses.

//Religious Right my arse

Moosedoo?

Wait. That doesn't sound right.

606 DEZes  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:36:29pm

re: #598 gclaghorn

Oh noes! Hamsters eated sock!

Hamsters have tummy ache.

607 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:36:42pm

re: #597 DEZes

The Hamsters eated her.

Poor babies' tummies must be roiling.

608 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:36:45pm

re: #599 LGoPs

I just find it really funny how people have forgotten that.

609 USBeast  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:36:53pm

re: #552 gclaghorn

TFK gets it right in #549.

Yes, Obama is a Chicago "machine thug", but there is the possibility that he knows that Chicago thuggery will not work outside of Chicago. There is also the possibility that his Socialist leanings were devices that got him elected into the Chicago machine.

We can hope.

610 MandyManners  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:37:04pm

re: #606 DEZes

Hamsters have tummy ache.

GMTA!

611 OldLineTexan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:37:27pm

re: #603 JeremyR

I only ever got to see them launch from Ramstein AB. Something about them pointing straight up was memorable.
My favorite fighters are the Tomcat and the Eagle. They just plain look all business.

I watched an Eagle driver go vertical over Highway 3 right out of (former) Ellington AFB at about 300-500ft. I pulled my pick-up over so I could watch without killing someone.

612 albusteve  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:37:30pm

re: #603 JeremyR

I only ever got to see them launch from Ramstein AB. Something about them pointing straight up was memorable.
My favorite fighters are the Tomcat and the Eagle. They just plain look all business.

heh...they want to kill you...they will kill you

613 DEZes  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:37:55pm

re: #607 MandyManners

Poor babies' tummies must be roiling.


GMTA!

614 kcladderman  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:38:52pm

re: #602 albusteve

I get it...back in Kalamazoo the Air Zoo has one...back in the 90s we had a premier air show and they'd break that thing out...it was the most awsome scariest sob I ever saw just static...it was such a rush to watch it fly then buzz the tarmac at 650mph...good god what a beast!...and huge!

You would be surprised how slow they could fly too. Sometimes they would do a fly by over deck and it looked as if they would just drop out of the sky. Though supersonic with the wings swept back it was a bad mother.

615 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:39:32pm

A recent pic of Obama and Biden together has been located!

616 DEZes  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:39:42pm

re: #610 MandyManners

GMTA!

OK, thats 2, lmao.

617 OldLineTexan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:39:55pm

re: #605 Occasional Reader

Moosedoo?

Wait. That doesn't sound right.

Yes, because it's moose crimp.

618 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:39:57pm

re: #603 JeremyR

I only ever got to see them launch from Ramstein AB. Something about them pointing straight up was memorable.
My favorite fighters are the Tomcat and the Eagle. They just plain look all business.

My fav is still the F-4, I know it was a compromise bird and ended up sub par in many roles. I just like it.

619 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:40:58pm

re: #612 albusteve

heh...they want to kill you...they will kill you

Now with the F-22, an enemy pilot is gonna' wonder how he ended up dead.

620 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:41:03pm

re: #548 Charles

'dareya' is another sock puppet, previously registered under several names, including 'penitentman'.

And with that proper eulogy, I bid him adieu, again.

Thanks for letting us bat it around for a while. Nothing like a generous helping of gamy buttocks to get the lizard army in that festive holiday mood.

621 ContraJihadi  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:41:49pm
To be honest, Palin is way too far right socially to appeal to me even though I am a fiscal conservative. The GOP will need to appeal to voters they may not agree with to win. The current trend with the GOP is toward a old, white voter party, and like it or not, that demographic is shrinking. I was ready to support McCain before he moved toward the religious right with the Palin pick. The Catch 22 for McCain, is that he could either have the base and lose the center with Palin or lose the base and pick up the middle without her. Either way, he was doomed, even against a much less experienced candidate.
Let me be clear, I don't want only one party to choose from in the future, but my last vote that you'd approve of was for Reagan.

This post shows some good observations on the political reality. Before I respond to its main point, I wish to say the following:


I have absented myself from commenting on LGF for about six weeks; I needed to reassess my understanding of the relationship between what Charles sees as his mission and how that understanding may or may not inform the range of opinions that the "lizard army" display.

Also, I am keenly aware of what another frugal commentator has presciently remarked regarding the clique that has developed among the acolytes. I have noted this phenomenon, and the awareness has drawn me to caution.

After having gone a-lurking these last few days, however, I note that while there is contention on LGF and some of it downright silly, there remains a serious spirit of inquiry of the sort of center-right pedigree that I believe our republic must see fostered and maintained.

We have all been exercised with respect to the misfortune that will soon put Obama in the White House. I am convinced that his ascension to the presidency will constitute a severe attack on our Constitutional Republic. But I must ask myself whether a McCain presidency would have comprised a noticeably lesser attack, at least with regard to those everyday transactions where partisanship always trumps principle (and has been constitutionally allowed to trump it). True, McCain said he would nominate to the Supreme Court justices in the mold of Scalia and Thomas, and if he were sincere in this, this alone would be reason to prefer his candidacy. But, truthfully, who knows what McCain would actually have done? I am also oppressed by the fact that some (i.e. President Bush's and candidate McCain's) "Republican" proposals for intervention in the economic sphere are not all that different from Obama's.

At their best, comments on LGF offer sage insights into what is going on in the struggle to keep America sane and what moderate conservatives may expect as the new Administration faces those always-vile but never-flagging jihadis as they go about trying to ruin (classically) liberal regimes here and abroad.

Bottom line: Yes, there is a certain "orthodoxy" here at LGF, but there is ample scope for real discussion. Witness the situation with respect to Cognito: most of the lizard army hate him, but his discourse cannot be dismissed as mere moonbattery. It contains enough reason that it must be met head on with counter-reason. Sometimes it has been countered with reason, sometimes merely with vituperation: such is the dialectic.

I hope to participate in and to confine my own remarks to these more rational exchanges. LGF is not perfect--nothing in the public sphere, nay, in the human sphere, is--but Charles has placed his blog firmly in the Civic Republican tradition that old John Adams recommended to our society.

...That said, I feel compelled to remark that regardless of the certainty of fundamentalist faith, it is, on the national level, a politically spent force. On the other hand, in a number states, it remains quite powerful. What the fundamentalists fail to recognize is that the USA is no longer a confederation of states; it has become an empire whose provinces are ruled from the center, and this center is dominated by a secular, socialist clerisy.

622 OldLineTexan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:41:53pm

re: #618 jcm

My fav is still the F-4, I know it was a compromise bird and ended up sub par in many roles. I just like it.

Loud and smoky. What's not to love?

623 HoosierHoops  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:41:57pm

re: #614 kcladderman

You would be surprised how slow they could fly too. Sometimes they would do a fly by over deck and it looked as if they would just drop out of the sky. Though supersonic with the wings swept back it was a bad mother.

I think the TomCat was one of the most beautifully designed Fighter in History.

624 karmasherabwangchuk  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:42:31pm

re: #172 buzzsawmonkey

due respect but she got a frozen deer in the headlight look to the question "what magazines do you read?" how can you draw a blank on that? just make up something. "why Katie, I love to peruse The Ladies Home Journal while the Moose steaks are grilling" or "High Times is a favorite. Love the centerfolds". something. anything.

625 RememberSekhmet?  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:43:01pm

I don't see it as all that smart to invest in one candidate or another for 2012 when 2009 hasn't happened yet. In part, I think what happened in 2008 was that people got invested in their idea of who ought to win, and wouldn't give anybody who wasn't that person half a chance.

Sarah can still screw up, or Trig can be in worse health than anybody knows about right now, and Sarah could be out of the running. And all those people who were "Sarah or bust?" Are they going to stay at home and sit on their hands (again), or settle for who is left with as much loud, whiny protest as they gave to John McCain?

You want Republicans and conservatives to win again, let's start with trying to articulate why you are conservative, instead of sitting with a thumb up your butt waiting for the Next Reagan (TM) to articulate it for you. Don't get me wrong, I do like Sarah, but my misgivings come from the fact that people are counting on her to articulate what people should be articulating in their own lives.

I landed a job in the middle of a recession. Lucky? My ass. Six months of pounding the electronic pavement, years of experience, and the confidence to sell my product--namely me. All these people who make money--lucky? Hell no. Eighty-hour weeks, barely seeing the family, having to be the one guy with eyes on the big picture, sometimes having to be the bad guy---doing it for years, and years and years.

Why don't we want our money taken away? Because every penny you earn is your just reward from every customer who has chewed your butt, every school play you missed, every brilliant idea that saved everybody's bacon, every vacation you logged in and checked the queue. Why shouldn't those who want your money have to put in what you put in for it? Gee, I'm not running for office, and I can articulate that.

626 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:43:39pm

re: #624 karmasherabwangchuk

Why is that relevant? If I was asked this question, my response would be "Eventing, USA". Does that make me more or less intelligent to you?

627 DEZes  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:43:57pm

re: #615 ArmyWife

A recent pic of Obama and Biden together has been located!

I think this might be them too.
[Link: farm3.static.flickr.com...]

628 path  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:45:13pm

re: #29 Taqyia2MeI agree with you; his campaign only came alive AFTER he announced Governor Palin as his Vice Presidential choice. From what I know so far, I could very comfortably vote Governor Palin for President.

629 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:45:56pm

re: #625 RememberSekhmet?


I am not hanging my hat solely on Sarah. Right now she is as close to what I want to see in a candidate. If someone else showed up on my radar, I'd be saying equaly positive things. A lot can happen in a few years, but she shouldn't thrown away just because of that fact.

630 pingjockey  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:46:00pm

Evenin' all. So what do I get for being out way past dark? Missed a troll from reading up thread. McCain can go piss up a rope. If he hadn't had Palin on the ticket, a whole lot of folks, me included may not have held our noses and voted. I am so disgusted at the McCain camp and what they've done after the election. If the repubs don't want to be an after thought they better wake the hell up! That woman flat out had the base howling with glee.

631 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:46:14pm

re: #621 ContraJihadi

I'm not sure after reading that in what regard you hold me in now, but you have been on my mind as of late and I was concerned as to your well being. I'm very glad to see you here and to know that you are well, my friend. As always- I encourage you to join us in our discussions as I feel you have wonderful insights to offer.

632 theheat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:46:33pm

Well, as much as Palin made me retch and cringe and lost my vote, I find it shameful he thinks the woman one banana peel slip away from the POTUS during the election campagn is now not good enough to recommend in 2012. But, when he was running, she was? That's some pretty ***ed up shit, right there. He'd cram her down my throat one minute, now throws her under the bus as an also-ran. Sounds bi-polar, to me. He must not be getting enough nap time.

In the end, I couldn't give a rat's patootie about either one of them. But this really paints him as creepy.

633 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:47:23pm

re: #468 dareya

It means you're in the doghouse, here...

634 DEZes  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:48:05pm

re: #623 HoosierHoops

I think the TomCat was one of the most beautifully designed Fighter in History.

Hell of a swing wing!

635 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:48:21pm

re: #622 OldLineTexan

Loud and smoky. What's not to love?

I remember seeing both the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds in F-4s.
Loud and Smoky! WOOT!

636 RememberSekhmet?  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:48:24pm

re: #629 ArmyWife

I am not hanging my hat solely on Sarah. Right now she is as close to what I want to see in a candidate. If someone else showed up on my radar, I'd be saying equaly positive things. A lot can happen in a few years, but she shouldn't thrown away just because of that fact.

Throw her away? Not at all. But emotional investment in 2012 without knowing what 2009-2011 is gonna look like is just not a good idea, IMHO

637 swamprat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:48:39pm

re: #621 ContraJihadi

Oh, yeah?

638 jwb7605  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:49:43pm

re: #636 RememberSekhmet?

Throw her away? Not at all. But emotional investment in 2012 without knowing what 2009-2011 is gonna look like is just not a good idea, IMHO

I'm also sick of emotional investments. And 2+ year campaigns.

639 Promethea  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:50:14pm

re: #410 JHW

Palin dangerous and scary and unprepared? The woman had only 3 weeks or so of being thrust into the national spotlight and she's expected to be as glib and eloquent as a Mafia lawyer by some. Add to that she was slimed at every turn by absurd B.S. stories at every turn, some which are still trotted out as truth by those who should know better. Add to that a little creative editing and outright misrepresentation by those opposed to her.

Here's what you get when you elect smooth talkers that really, really sound good and smart and all that:


I'll take someone like Sarah any day over these types. A bit more time practicing on her speaking style and a bit more experience on dealing with dishonest media types and she'll be fine. We've had way more than enough of polished speaking, sophisticated sounding...con-men.

It will be "interesting" to see what kind of cons the biggest con man of our time will bring us starting January 20.

I thought it was funny that Richardson is already under indictment, and the new administration isn't even sworn in.

640 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:52:28pm

Re: A-4 Skyhawk

Back in the early 60s, the A-4 was deployed in the air defense role on the CVS (anti-submarine) conversions of Essex class carriers. The reason for this was that the CVS retained hydraulic catapults, which could not cope with the weight and acceleration requirements of the F-4 or F-8. The Royal Australian Navy deployed the A-4 in a similar role on its light fleet carrier

Melbourne

. The Brazilian Navy does so to this day on its fleet flagship, Sao Paolo. The latter ship can deploy considerably heavier aircraft and Brazil is looking at F-18s as a replacement. Even so, they are very pleased with the A-4s and have invested heavily in an update and modernization program.

A-4s were a mainstay of the IDF from 1969 until fairly recently and are still used as the standard advanced trainer. Author Bill Gunston called it the most agile jet in the Middle East until the arrival of the F-16 and asserts that fully loaded A-4s could (and did) out-turn MiG-21s and clean ones could out-turn even the MiG-17. A-4s with the code-name "Mongoose" were in fact used to simulate MiG-17s in the Top Gun program.

641 JeremyR  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:52:39pm

re: #618 jcm

My fav is still the F-4, I know it was a compromise bird and ended up sub par in many roles. I just like it.

There were so many things wrong with the Phantom that it is a wonder they flew like they did. When they were replaced by the falcon, the Air Force did not have an all weather fighter. The Phantom was not truly replaced until block 40 modification in 1985. IIRC

642 blue_like_jazz  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:52:42pm

i'm late to the thread... not that he'll ever read this or care if he did,

BUT

john, shut up and GO AWAY.

643 Austin Conservative  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:55:21pm

The GOP needs to have it's primaries on one day through out the country. They need to make sure assholes can't register and vote the same day too. I'd also go as far as making voters dip their finger in ink that lasts 7 days.

I wanted to move to AZ just to vote against McCain and now I still do. Fricking old bastard. He really did not want to win anyway. Fricking media chose him for us.

644 JHW  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:55:31pm

re: #639 Promethea

Yes. you're right. It's pretty sad to me that some judge far too many of our politicians on their speaking style, polish,oratory or what not, pick apart endlessly every gaffe in speaking,and take so much less notice of character, record and actual policy positions. Sold like a box of soap

645 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:56:05pm
646 avanti  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:56:27pm

Reagan was religious, but did not seem to wear it on his sleeve. Palin was a bit too close to the far right religious types for me to be comfortable.
I live in a blue state,most of us our pro choice, support gay civil unions, live a let live types. I'm a agnostic but don't object to your kids praying in school, just don't lead mine in prayer, nor chose the TV I watch, nor the books I read.
This quote sums it up for me:

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

647 jcm  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:56:46pm

re: #641 JeremyR

There were so many things wrong with the Phantom that it is a wonder they flew like they did. When they were replaced by the falcon, the Air Force did not have an all weather fighter. The Phantom was not truly replaced until block 40 modification in 1985. IIRC

F-4! Proof with enough power a brick will fly!

I know, it's not it's capabilities, I just like the plane. Big, brutish, noisy!

648 RememberSekhmet?  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:57:39pm

Given the fact that, oh, you have to believe that a Senator who won the White House had absolutely no discussions with the governor of his state as to what is to happen to his seat in order to believe Blago is not a scandal for Obama---four years from now, folks may be going, "Umm, and we made fun of Palin for...shooting a moose?"

Like I dsaid, four years---anything can happen.

649 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:58:07pm
650 lifeofthemind  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:58:25pm

Fighter jocks make movies
Attack jocks make history

F/A-18 was the world's best light armored vehicle, then they gave it a gas tank.

F-4 was proof that given a big enough engine a brick will fly.

651 ContraJihadi  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:58:54pm

re: #631 Sharmuta

My dear, if I were to tell you what I wish to imagine about you, the tongues of 20,000 lizards would flicker in astonishment. Best that I keep my anima firmly hidden.

But to the more public task: there has been much too much "opinion" about public events and not enough reason. When George Washington, John Adams, and James Madison look down from heaven this next January 20, they will not exult. Thomas Jefferson will feel ambivalent, for he believed that a little revolution now and then was a good thing; but certainly Hope and Change was not what he had in mind.

There will be time enough to discuss these matters further--as long as the Fairness Doctrine descends not. And, to be truthful, I don't think it will. Oddly, Obama has shown more circumspection than I had imagined.

We'll talk anon, my dear; and you will just have to put up with my whistfullness. I needed to come to a more mature understanding about LGF and this whole business about blog commenting.

Tomorrow is my beloved son's 29th anniversary.

652 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 6:58:58pm
653 zuukie  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:00:15pm

I might have been cool with Palin, but she has been so sweet about Obama and his win I just wonder what she really thinks.

The day of the strong male seems over. Instead of men with ideals in politics, we get humans who have some resemblance to the male species but are so washed out that instead of standing straight they flip and flop and bend and act as if a spine is not an accessory that came with the body. That goes for both Republicans and Democrats. It is so bad that by comparison Palin and that the Clinton person looked strong even though they swayed in the breezes.

The journalists lie, the religious leaders stand for nothing, the Constitution is nothing but a piece of paper, the teachers repeat the nonsense they were taught, entertainment is presented at the fourth grade level, manners have disappeared in civic discussion, owned things are the standard by which we value people, and anyone who tries to live by values is ridiculed.

What would have been shocking is if the Republican leadership actually stood for the things the conservative activists actually cared about and had enough backbone to act on them.

McCain just continues to be the poster boy for the American system we now live under.

654 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:00:21pm

re: #636 RememberSekhmet?

Our party needs to revamp, our message needs to be clear:
1. We protect the true language of our Constitution (strict constructionist)
2. We protect liberty and freedoms - which includes freedom to be religious, and freedom not to be religious. This means science is taught in science class, but I'll defend the teaching of creationism in the home if that is what is wanted. Its OK to say "Merry Christmas" and have a tree at school. Its also OK to have a Menorah. The Ten Commandments on a wall will not harm a soul.
3. Our government is small, they are conservative fiscally in thought, word and action.
4. We are proud of our nation, and of our Armed Forces and are not afraid to shout that from the mountain tops.
5. We protect societal norms.

I am not interested in settling for a watered down version of conservatism.

655 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:00:49pm

re: #651 ContraJihadi

Tomorrow is my beloved son's 29th anniversary.

Congrats!

656 phoenixgirl  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:01:09pm

i hate mccain

657 lifeofthemind  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:01:21pm

re: #645 Iron Fist

Clinton has no real foreign policy experience (she was banging the President?

That is the one thing that no one accuses her of.

658 Joan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:01:36pm

re: #596 jwb7605

I respectfully disagree.
With the guvmint owning a 'shareholder' stake in the banking industry, and poised to do the same thing to the auto industry, I think the hard turn will occur before 2010 and will make it through both houses before the public can figure out that an all left-wing guvmint may not be in their interest.
The only thing left is ... wait for it ... health care. Then the guvmint has control of it all.
Remember, it's our only way out.

Aim for the 2010 elections hell bent for leather. You may be right, I don't want you to be though. /if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride

659 JeremyR  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:02:55pm

re: #647 jcm

F-4! Proof with enough power a brick will fly!

I know, it's not it's capabilities, I just like the plane. Big, brutish, noisy!

I love em too. I also liked the F-8, the last gunfighter. Both planes look kick ass. The F-104 was impressive, but something about two shots and out did not trip my trigger.
I should have gone Air Force, but went Army instead.

660 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:03:02pm

re: #651 ContraJihadi

Again- I am so glad to see you. I was worried some harm had befallen you and am so relieved to know you're well. May you and your family enjoy the wonderful anniversary you have tomorrow, and I look forward to seeing you here again.

661 Joan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:03:16pm

re: #653 zuukie

Grim, but accurate.

662 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:03:57pm

re: #646 avanti

If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under.
- Ronald Reagan

663 JeremyR  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:04:02pm

Gonna run. Catch you all later.

664 lifeofthemind  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:04:23pm

re: #659 JeremyR


I should have gone Air Force, but went Army instead.

You joined the military?
/do I havta or some pinhead will yell?

665 pat  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:04:40pm

McCain is a pig.

666 Ojoe  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:05:25pm

re: #653 zuukie

The day of the strong male seems over. Instead of men with ideals in politics, we get humans who have some resemblance to the male species but are so washed out that instead of standing straight they flip and flop and bend and act as if a spine is not an accessory that came with the body.

Sasquatch, primitive stinker, no like.

667 ContraJihadi  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:05:34pm

re: #655 gclaghorn

Thank you, sir. My son has a gift for me: he and his wife, who now live in Boston, will be coming out my way for the next two years. He has secured a post doc at UC Berkeley. Yes, I know academia is suspect, but at least he will be doing physics, not critical theory!

668 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:06:15pm
669 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:06:44pm

re: #646 avanti


Within the covers of the Bible are the answers for all the problems men face.
Ronald Reagan

Without God, democracy will not and cannot long endure.
Ronald Reagan

670 SteveC  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:06:48pm

re: #645 Iron Fist

Clinton has no real foreign policy experience (she was banging the President?)

She probably wanted to bang him... with a .357!

671 jwb7605  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:07:10pm

re: #658 Joan

Aim for the 2010 elections hell bent for leather. You may be right, I don't want you to be though. /if wishes were horses, then beggars would ride

I hate it when I'm right sometimes, too.
But, given the "disastrous circumstances" we are now in ...

I mean, Bush has used words like "calamity", Chertoff is worse, and now things are being handed off to somebody that promised us the moon and has no problem selling snake oil.

What stopped universal health care in 1992 was largely the non-depth of the "recession".

672 TheMatrix31  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:07:32pm

re: #646 avanti

Reagan was religious, but did not seem to wear it on his sleeve. Palin was a bit too close to the far right religious types for me to be comfortable.
I live in a blue state,most of us our pro choice, support gay civil unions, live a let live types. I'm a agnostic but don't object to your kids praying in school, just don't lead mine in prayer, nor chose the TV I watch, nor the books I read.
This quote sums it up for me:

"But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg."

-Thomas Jefferson, Notes on Virginia, 1782

Palin never pushed her religious views on anyone either.

673 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:07:41pm
674 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:08:55pm

He also said these great lines:
Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives.
Ronald Reagan

Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Ronald Reagan

Governments tend not to solve problems, only to rearrange them.
Ronald Reagan

675 SteveC  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:08:58pm

re: #668 Iron Fist

OTOH there were rumors that Janet Reno was the father...

My eyes! My eyes!

*Runs in circles and falls or ground, crying*

676 hazzyday  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:09:11pm

Sen McCain is alright to me. I was for Giuliani, then Romney. He was my third choice. I think he got kick started by the MSM early on when his campaign was in trouble. And Rudy should have never played a don't vote for me til Florida strat.

What I learned about McCain during the campaign I liked in terms of his service. In terms of policies it's hard to tell. Sen Obama had him outfunded, out organized, and out interneted, and out crooked.

I thought his whole campaign was clueless about the Internet down to the local GOP leadership.

The Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Chuck Schumer, Harry Reid message of creating the financial collapse wasn't strong enough. The anti Ayers message was not delivered well.

But I'm a GWB supporter anyways. And GWB is weak on propagandizing his work.

I'm waiting for PE Obama to buy me a new car and a new house so I don't have to make my life difficult by making payments on anything anymore.

677 lifeofthemind  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:09:18pm

re: #667 ContraJihadi

Yes, I know academia is suspect, but at least he will be doing physics, not critical theory!

Congratualations. Some people get to do both. Bet he knows this and will enjoy you knowing it.

678 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:09:47pm
679 ArmyWife  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:09:57pm

Night all. Sleep well.

680 gclaghorn  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:10:16pm

re: #667 ContraJihadi

Thank you, sir. My son has a gift for me: he and his wife, who now live in Boston, will be coming out my way for the next two years. He has secured a post doc at UC Berkeley. Yes, I know academia is suspect, but at least he will be doing physics, not critical theory!

Again, Congratulations, and good luck to both of you.

681 lifeofthemind  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:10:53pm

re: #668 Iron Fist

Chealsea had to come from somewhere. OTOH there were rumors that Janet Reno was the father...

I'm willing to guess Bill got liquored up and did it but that was during the Cold War.

682 SteveC  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:12:09pm

re: #678 Iron Fist

You do have to wonder what the Secret Service would have done if it had gotten that out of control. Maybe taken a few bets, started a pool...

"The First Lady just shot the President!"

"You gotta be shittin' me! Either take her down or give her a medal, your call!"

683 hazzyday  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:12:34pm

re: #632 theheat

Why would Gov. Palin make you retch? I would say it's more your problem than hers.

684 hazzyday  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:15:26pm

The real Obama comes out once he is in office. We haven't seen that yet. I think he is gonna screw up a lot til, he gets control under world pressure. Cabinet changes, mucked up policy. It's gonna be harder to game the system like he is used to.

685 UberInfidel67  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:16:26pm

re: #548 CharlesDammit man! I was enjoying the "back & forth". Guess I have to find something else to fill my free time : )

686 lifeofthemind  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:17:13pm

re: #682 SteveC

"The First Lady just shot the President!"

"You gotta be shittin' me! Either take her down or give her a medal, your call!"

Careful there now young 'un we don't want to prejudice an investigation. Now you say a crime may have been committed? Well run along and isolate the crime scene, don't want anyone contaminating any evidence. The rest of you should get real busy interviewing people, don't want to overlook and facts or miss any of those, watchmacallit clues. I intend to gather my faculties and proceed in a deliberate and thorough manner.

Now I believe it was my call? Dealer draws two.

687 Joan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:17:42pm

re: #645 Iron Fist

Aim for 2010 elections, keep the Republicans in line, find a way to hold the line. What else can we do? I'm hoping Obama will govern center long enough to prevent permanent and irreversible damage, possible permanent majority for the Dems. Yeah, it is real bad. Obama is a genuine socialist, he sincerely believes his ideology--it trumps almost every other value. That was what I meant by those terms. He is way out of his depth, but he is a good politician. I am really worried.

688 Dancing along the light of day  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:18:13pm

re: #583 reine.de.tout

Please be sure to let us know how we may get one! TIA!

689 avanti  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:21:47pm

re: #662 ArmyWife

If we ever forget that we are One Nation Under God, then we will be a nation gone under.
- Ronald Reagan


Interesting bit of trivia about that quote. The "under God" words were added to the pledge in 1954 under pressure from the Knights Of Columbus. It's just the kind of religious influence that liberal oppose. As a agnostic, or a atheist, why should a pledge to my county be a implicit acknowledgment of someones faith ? We are a secular country and will only become more so. The same with the 10 Commandments, which of the dozen version do you post, and what about the non Christian verses. It's a slippey slope that our founders recognized.

690 ContraJihadi  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:22:47pm

re: #660 Sharmuta

Again- I am so glad to see you. I was worried some harm had befallen you and am so relieved to know you're well. May you and your family enjoy the wonderful anniversary you have tomorrow, and I look forward to seeing you here again.

I thank you for your concern. No harm has befallen me that the restoration of Calvin Coolidge to the presidency cannot cure.

Seriously, I'd like to recommend Hegel's Philosophy of Right: The philosopher suggests that there are three aspects to our ethical life--the family, in which love prevails; civil society, where in the marketplace we satisfy our own material needs by satisfying those of others; and the state, where (when adequate to its concept) objective law guides our communal life on earth.

Our Founding Fathers gave us our Constitution so that the rule of law would control all our conflicts. The greatest abomination of the progressives is that they insist in principle in debauching the law in the name of transcient democracy. So-called Republicans are scarcely better when they bend the constitution to their own ends, but at least they don't make it a principle. When I look for heroes today, I look to Justices Thomas and Scalia.

691 wiffersnapper  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:24:58pm

Who cares what McCain and Kerry have to say?

692 maximoso  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:25:10pm
re: #549 taxfreekiller

Obama is a Chicago machine thug + he is commie to the bone.

He will go way left, into the ditch left, its all he is, commie and dishonest.

Agreed,

But he'll so so under the disguise moderation with Community organizing and manipulating the media. Things like open suggestions from the public on hi sUniversal Healthcare - that he's really implementing what he wants. OR - his massive Jobs Bailout " public works " program that'll line the pockets of all his Power base as they skim for pet projects and groups like ACORN.

The politically disinterested won't know what hit em til their gas taxes go up / til their Energy bills go up / and til unemployment 4 years later is much higher than it stands today. It'll take some good republican leadership to shine the light on Obama's liberalism. If nobody steps up and grabs the mantle - the press will cover for him and he'll get his second term.

693 solomonpanting  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:25:51pm

re: #689 avanti

We are a secular country

Nope. I believe even Tocqueville saw the US as a religious country with a secular government.

694 jwb7605  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:26:51pm

re: #693 solomonpanting

Nope. I believe even Tocqueville saw the US as a religious country with a secular government.

Very well put.

695 revobob  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:31:27pm

There was also a comment by I think George Mason, to the effect that they had produced a constitution that would work for a God-fearing, educated people but would not work for any other.

696 ContraJihadi  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:33:01pm

re: #693 solomonpanting

Nope. I believe even Tocqueville saw the US as a religious country with a secular government.

John Adams said that our Constitution was made for a religious people. I think he meant that the prevailing sentiment must be one in which the majority of the people are convinded that morality is based in a transcendental reality, that it is not a mere construct imposed upon a rude peasantry by a clever, self-serving elite. On the other hand, he did not insist that this transcendent reality must look like the the picture of Moses depicted in the Book of Exodus.

697 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:38:33pm
698 solomonpanting  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:43:17pm

re: #696 ContraJihadi

John Adams said that our Constitution was made for a religious people. I think he meant that the prevailing sentiment must be one in which the majority of the people are convinded that morality is based in a transcendental reality, that it is not a mere construct imposed upon a rude peasantry by a clever, self-serving elite. On the other hand, he did not insist that this transcendent reality must look like the the picture of Moses depicted in the Book of Exodus.

Thank you. I believe both Jefferson and Franklin wanted the Great Seal of the US to depict the Jews leaving Egypt. And both of these fellows are considered to be deists.

699 Outrider  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:43:51pm

re: #512 JeremyR

What MAW flew the A-10? I thought they were soley an Air Force plane.
IIRC, the Marines flew the a-4, replaced it with the Harrier, and suplemented it with the Whorenut.

You know, I honestly do not know. I had seen the pilots at NTC starting in 79 I think, then visiting units at Ft Carson in 79-80 and Korea in mid 80s (for sure AF) I saw various AF and Marines piloting them throughout the 80s and early 90s at different bases. Now, as to whether these pilots were assigned the craft or a pilot swap program? No idea. But, these were Marines in the briefing tents and the FAC was Marine. I know we had the Harriers, and we had F4s down South.

700 Lynn B.  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:44:16pm

re: #41 Sharmuta

This was exactly why I was not enthused about supporting mccain once he won the primaries need to ensure the nomination. He's not supportive of fellow republicans, and has gone out of his way to work against the party far too often.

It should come as no surprise that he'd snub a fellow republicans now. He's had YEARS of practice.

I supported him because of Sarah and that I was hopeful he was serious about reforming Washington. Now- I'm sick that I allowed him to bullshit me. I'm going to apologize to the republicans I know that stayed home or voted third party.

I don't think you owe anyone an apology. You asked people to do no more or less than you did, which was hold your nose and vote for McCain because his choice of running mate seemed to signal a new message from him and in light of the alternative. I've never liked the guy, never trusted the guy and would vote for him again tomorrow if he was running with Sarah Palin against Obama/Biden.

701 Outrider  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:48:48pm

re: #558 Naso Tang

Good grief. Do we really want to start another election campaign for the next four years already? Do we have such blinkers on that there's nobody out there but Palin; already?

She's cool in many ways, but truth is that she has many of the same flaws that Obama did; meaning weak track record. Are there no other Republican governors/senators/congressmen out there with balls and brains? If there aren't, the Republicans deserve to lose next time too.

Sure, name one.

My choice would be Rep Kingston from Georgia. Good solid conservative, no taint.

702 Sharmuta  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:48:57pm

re: #690 ContraJihadi

I will add that to my reading list, my friend. As for political heros- I go with the classics myself. Washington and Franklin top my list.


re: #700 Lynn B.

Thanks, Lynn. I've never trusted him either.

703 uptight  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:49:16pm

His corpse wasn't that warm when he ran for president.

He used Sarah Palin to gather the votes of Republicans who would rather abstain than vote for him. He still lost. It's time for him and other liberal infiltrators to pack their bags and leave.

In this respect it is irrelevant who he endorses, but should he decide to stay then it would be better that he endorses another liberal - clear lines of demarcation - know thy enemy etc.

704 avanti  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 7:58:13pm

re: #698 solomonpanting

Thank you. I believe both Jefferson and Franklin wanted the Great Seal of the US to depict the Jews leaving Egypt. And both of these fellows are considered to be deists.

Interesting point. What chance would either Franklin or Jefferson have in today's Republican party ? i.e. Jefferson made his own under 100 page Bible. He deleted all the things he did not believe in, including Christ's resurrection. Would that act made him a poor President ?

705 shanester  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 8:00:17pm

What ticks me off is reports like the "Cafferty File" this evening that did nothing but diss Sarah.

I don't care if you liked her or not, but results show that she HELPED McCain somewhere between 2-6% in his total popular vote. In other words, it would have been a real landslide without her. Perhaps others would have helped more, nobody knows, but it irks me to see the MSM say she was detrimental to McCain when EVERY study shows she HELPED.

Like her or not, that's the truth, and the MSM is making sure she has no chance later. Gee... wonder why.

706 ContraJihadi  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 8:03:39pm

re: #698 solomonpanting

re: #698 solomonpanting

Thank you. I believe both Jefferson and Franklin wanted the Great Seal of the US to depict the Jews leaving Egypt. And both of these fellows are considered to be deists.

A deist can refuse to believe that the Bible related a literal history but still believe in the moral import of its tradition. The "bottom line" rendition of deism is that the Supreme Being initiated the universe of phenomena, but the laws with which He constructed that universe were so complete as not to require occasional and supernatural intervention. Certainly, however, if that deistic conception be true, the laws in question must not be physical solely, but also moral; for man as a species is much more essentially a moral being than a physical. (At least, such was the understanding of the deists from Alexander Pope to Thomas Paine.)

707 Pietr  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 8:07:26pm

I've been hypnotized by this thread-trying to digest it all-so I never caught up enough to comment. The lizards detecting, and emasculating, troll was especially intriguing. The name was a red flag to me, but it could have been harmless. But the postings supported the SN, so instincts seemed to work there. And then it was identified, named, and dispatched by Charles-having been an admin on a board, I'm jealous of how easy it worked.

That said, I don't believe that Sen. McCain did right by Gov. Palin-not in this case, nor when his staffers were trashing her after the election. He did not give her the same courtesy and respectthat she gave him. He will bear as watching, as the new President and his cabinet will (I still can't believe BO resurrected Daschle-Ecch!).

708 CanuckInMI  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 8:10:20pm

I think its a bit early to be endorsing candidates for 2012 as yet. That being said, would Sarah Palin WANT John McCain's endorsement?

709 solomonpanting  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 8:12:19pm

re: #704 avanti

Interesting point. What chance would either Franklin or Jefferson have in today's Republican party ? i.e. Jefferson made his own under 100 page Bible. He deleted all the things he did not believe in, including Christ's resurrection. Would that act made him a poor President ?


Not any poorer than if Lieberman became President.

710 Pietr  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 8:15:55pm

re: #709 solomonpanting

Joe Lieberman I coulda voted for-I actually believe he is interested in the welfare of this country. And he's definitely not dumb about who the enemies of this country are.

711 [deleted]  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 8:18:14pm
712 Smilin' Jack  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 8:18:18pm

McCain's performance on the campaign was one continuous Red Flag; he didn't appear to be fighting to win. Yet he took our donations, our votes and our confidence plus the best running mate the country could provide and went on to lose it all.

John McCain, the Bernie Madoff of the Senate.
SJ

713 PatrioticNaturalizedAmerican  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 8:19:00pm

McCain was a drag on the Palin ticket.

714 Billy Hank  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 8:20:24pm

re: #103 buzzsawmonkey
I thought the McCain campaign blew the Couric interview and the Gibson interview. They were not prepared for the full court press from the MSM at the start and it wasn't until later that Palin started to adjust, w/o, I might add, much help from McCain.

McCain's slogan "Country First" was deceptive in that he really meant was his own McCain's notion of "McCain's Notions First." Thus his hobby horse issue, campaign finance reform, put his campaign in an impossible position coming out of the gate. He stuck to his notion of running a genteel, Adlai Stevenson campaign, never attacking Obama on a host of issues, to include his red diaper past, unexplained biographical black holes, and his long associatin with the Reverend Wright. As a matter of fact, it was so pervasisve, we might in future days refer to a strategy that spots your opponent all the advantages and then expects to win on the candidate's self perception of personal rectitude as "The McCain Strategy."

Note that at the end of the campaign, they had so little respect for their supporters that they sold all kinds of electronic equipment with personal data still on them.

715 RebelPOW  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 8:27:00pm

This just reminds me all over again why I had such a hard time pulling the lever for McCain.

Such a terrible candidate to run at such a critical time in our history.

Scum.

I always believed that of McCain.

This confirms it.

716 Semi Cartman  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 8:39:16pm

re: #708 CanuckInMI

I think its a bit early to be endorsing candidates for 2012 as yet. That being said, would Sarah Palin WANT John McCain's endorsement?


They started to promote BO for president in '08 after he 'spoke' at the democrat convention in '04. He was a crummy Illinois state senator at the time. It's never too early to organize.

717 sleepyone  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 8:42:31pm

re: #707 Pietr

I've been hypnotized by this thread-trying to digest it all-so I never caught up enough to comment. The lizards detecting, and emasculating, troll was especially intriguing. The name was a red flag to me, but it could have been harmless. But the postings supported the SN, so instincts seemed to work there. And then it was identified, named, and dispatched by Charles-having been an admin on a board, I'm jealous of how easy it worked.

That said, I don't believe that Sen. McCain did right by Gov. Palin-not in this case, nor when his staffers were trashing her after the election. He did not give her the same courtesy and respectthat she gave him. He will bear as watching, as the new President and his cabinet will (I still can't believe BO resurrected Daschle-Ecch!).

In seven years of reading and sometimes commenting (before registration, and later, with a different nic than the one used now) I think this is the most fascinating and interesting thread I've ever read. I have so much work to do but I can't stop reading. I can't put my finger on why this thread has been so enjoyable but it has.

718 the_flying_pig  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 8:50:48pm

Oh, that old crank! He forgot his meds again.

719 nikis-knight  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 8:53:53pm

Lieberman got worse from Gore & his party. Didn't even get support for re-election, let alone his presidential run.

720 avanti  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 8:59:31pm

re: #717 sleepyone

I I can't put my finger on why this thread has been so enjoyable but it has.


I'm a newbie here, but I have to agree. It's the longest I've been able to enjoy a discussion on a right of center forum with out being booted as a troll. A few other sites just seem to be "The other side is all bad, all the time"' and then posts replying "I agree.", usually with red flag labels. It happens on both the left and right sites and seems to be a way to just reinforce preexisting opinions without fear descent or discussion.
I'll try and play nice s long as you'll have me, the "Chosen One" commands me to.

721 notutopia  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 9:02:48pm

McCain has lost my respect. He is not and was not conservative enough for my tastes in a politician and a leader of this country. He sure had a lot of people hoodwinked though with all his talk of Washington reform.
And he used Gov. Palin as conservative bait in this past election. It worked on me. She never failed to support him and sang his praises and gave him credibility as a Maverick.
She was the one who energetically raised his campaign to a point that conservatives could seriously consider him and tolerate him enough to vote his ticket.
I wonder what Palin now thinks about his credibility since she has spent time really getting to learn and know who he is and what he doesn't stand for.
It sure was not returning loyalty to her.
It appears the fix is already in for Pawlenty.

722 Joan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 9:05:04pm

re: #720 avanti

Are you one of the phospholipid and sphingolipid People?

hee. It is getting late--I googled "avanti" to see what it means (Italian?)

I find you are of the Polar Lipid folk, but are you phospholipid or sphingolipid?
No sphingolipid will be tolerated here, away! Phospholipids, however, can be a pleasant change of pace.

pax

723 Joan  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 9:07:22pm

re: #721 notutopia

fix in for Pawlenty...feh

I don't know him, but it irritates me that less than 60 days from losing the election, power players are already trying to "fix" and manipulate. Blah

724 maximoso  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 9:21:29pm
re: #581 Joan

It is unlikely that he will cease being a socialist. It may be, though, that the changes he wants to make will have to be in slower increments than the hard left would prefer..

Apparently you haven't been watching his rollout press conferences. Obama seems to have an affinity for the word " RAPID " when he refers to his change.

Let's not forget the " fierce urgency of now ".

If the process moves slow - it gets public scrutiny and details come out. Obama wants to package his healthcare into the stimulus - as part of the solution to save the economy ( UAW Pension will be used as a leverage point ).

He's onlly going slow right now b/c he has no Presidential authority to move policy on the current date.

725 avanti  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 9:30:11pm

re: #722 Joan

"Avanti" is my handle because of my hobby business. I buy, restore and sell Studebaker cars and parts on ebay. The Avanti was the Studebaker sports car built in 1963-64. Here's my 64:

Avanti...

726 maximoso  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 9:35:31pm
re: #672 TheMatrix31

Palin never pushed her religious views on anyone either.

Right on. She just was asked about it constantly by the media. One thing i liked about Palin was she is genuine. If asked - she's not afraid of her skin - she will openly speak of her position and why. She also has no record of pushing her religion on others.

If she wasn't hidden in a closet by McCain handlers - that would have come out. I think it's safe to assume the opinion that most people think of Palin - isn't Palin - but a hodgepodge of Tina Fey - Rumors from the MSM - and 2 heavily edited videos and a vacuum from having an actual candidate to put out the Real Sarah Palin. McCain put her under wrap pretty quickly.

Post-election - Sarah grabbed the media by the horns and I came to the conclusion that it was a serious mistake - b/c she can handle the media just fine if allowed to do so. She needs to be governor for a while - and come onto the public stage under her own time - without handlers. She's got very good political instincts and I think she can repair her image effectively in her next shot if she choses.

727 2by2  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 9:37:37pm

re: #548 Charles

'dareya' is another sock puppet, previously registered under several names, including 'penitentman'.

And with that proper eulogy, I bid him adieu, again.

Charles, I humbly point out that I kind of had a funny feeling on the open registration thread:
re: #111 dareya

Looking forward to lively conversation.

Welcome there, ..interesting nic,

728 Syrah  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:04:23pm

It was a hopeless campaign till McCain picked Sarah as his running mate.

McCain = Weasel.

729 Syrah  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:12:03pm

re: #283 dareya

Palin is dangerous and scary. So far out of her league that it was painful to watch. (Am I missing something?)

Yes.

730 Syrah  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:21:25pm

re: #13 Killgore Trout

He had no confidence in his own VP pick. It was a doomed ticket.

It was doomed when he got the nomination. McCain's VP pick did not hurt him anymore than Obama's VP pick hurt him. Hell, they ended up having to hide Biden from the press while Palin was able to draw crowds.

731 Syrah  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:31:24pm

re: #434 avanti

I don't down ding people here very much.

I made an exception for you today.

732 Biff  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:33:53pm

McCain's failure of will to attack Obama head on in the debates was the hallmark of his defeat. In an anything goes environment, McCain opted for a novice chess match. He convinced most people that he was too old and incapable of putting up a fight, or worse, that he was just an older and feebler version of Obama. What a mistake for the Republican party. Then he gagged Sarah with "John McCain is the real Maverick." That's great, but most of the folks who watched that show are on SS now or dead. Mitt Romney was a sensational candidate, unfortunately the GOP base seems to have a problem with Mormans. Welcome to the new age of politics.

733 soccerdad  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:35:09pm

just goes to show you...McCain was a poor choice anyway. he's a good American. he's just NOT a conservative leader. HOW did we EVER end up with him as our candidate?

Thanks, MSM

734 soccerdad  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:36:15pm

re: #732 Biff

McCain's failure of will to attack Obama head on in the debates was the hallmark of his defeat. In an anything goes environment, McCain opted for a novice chess match. He convinced most people that he was too old and incapable of putting up a fight, or worse, that he was just an older and feebler version of Obama. What a mistake for the Republican party. Then he gagged Sarah with "John McCain is the real Maverick." That's great, but most of the folks who watched that show are on SS now or dead. Mitt Romney was a sensational candidate, unfortunately the GOP base seems to have a problem with Mormans. Welcome to the new age of politics.


The GOP bas enever got a chance. The MSM anoited him early on.

735 Syrah  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:40:04pm

re: #732 Biff

Romney dropped out of the Primary the day before the Washington State Primary Caucus vote. That left me with the choice of McCain, Huckabee, or Ron Paul.

I did not want to waste my vote on people I thought would represent the party poorly so I gritted my teeth, steeled my nerve, and voted for Romney anyway.

736 Biff  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:47:46pm

re: #735 Syrah
Yeah, I wrote him in in PA. He looked good on MTP Sunday, though the Mich governor was trying to diss him, claiming his auto industry total employee costs had been disproven "some time ago". Liar Democrat.

737 Syrah  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:51:03pm

re: #736 Biff

Yeah, I wrote him in in PA. He looked good on MTP Sunday, though the Mich governor was trying to diss him, claiming his auto industry total employee costs had been disproven "some time ago". Liar Democrat.

Lying is what Democrats do. If they are not lying, they are not talking.

738 Roses  Mon, Dec 15, 2008 10:58:44pm

I'll support Palin if she runs. Anytime anywhere.

Given what McCain was up against, it's amazing Obama didn't win 80/20. Obama had the Chicago machine, the Kennedy Machine and the Soros machine, PLUS the media acting as his bodyguards.

The machine was enough to silence even Hillary and her own prodigious team. But once you see who those players are, you can see why she had to sit down and shut up.

I doubt any of what went on will ever see the light of day.

But without the amazing and wonderful Sarah Palin, anyone would have been toast.

America missed a golden opportunity. I don't know if it will get that second chance - also. :)

739 Smilla  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 1:00:32am

Gee, thanks a bunch, Mac. I have no doubt that Sarah Palin will be POTUS one day.

740 hthierry  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 4:57:45am

Positive proof that this man did not deserve to win. I was one of the many that did vote for him because of Palin joining the ticket. He served his country and do respect him for that, but please Senator show a little more class.

741 jlp309  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 5:29:03am

Jerk.

742 A.W.  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 5:48:30am

First, 2012 is a long way away. He doesn't have to endorse anyone right now.

Second, would she really want his endorsement? Would it really help her?

743 jamie  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 6:40:07am

re: #306 Iron Fist

Have you got a link to that? IIRC Clinton only got 43% of the vote. Perot got nearly 20% of the vote. Maybe Perot pulled some votes from Clinton, but the lion's share of his votes came from Bush Sr. Certainly Bush Sr. made a lot of mistakes, but that is why Perot got such a big percentage of the vote.

Sure. From the 11/8/92 Washington Post:

Ross Perot's presence on the 1992 presidential ballot did not change the outcome of the election, according to an analysis of the second choices of Perot supporters.

The analysis, based on exit polls conducted by Voter Research & Surveys (VRS) for the major news organizations, indicated that in Perot's absence, only Ohio would have have shifted from the Clinton column to the Bush column. This would still have left Clinton with a healthy 349-to-189 majority in the electoral college.

And even in Ohio, the hypothetical Bush "margin" without Perot in the race was so small that given the normal margin of error in polls, the state still might have stuck with Clinton absent the Texas billionaire.

[Link: www.highbeam.com...]

Now notice that the article says only Ohio might have been different. I think if you look at the Montana numbers, there is a case to be made for that state as well. Either way, Clinton wins that race with or without Perot.

744 jasongreenberg  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 8:34:57am

Just because he's not committing himself to endorse her in 4 years (who knows what could happen between then and now), doesn't mean he won't support a republican next election. By then, there could be another candidate who might be better for the job (nothing against Palin- I love almost everything she stands for). It's not worth committing now and then having to retract your words. Sounds to me like he's a smart politician.

745 Maltboy!  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 8:37:44am

The egoMcCainiac can't handle the fact that Sarah was the one bright spot in his failed campaign. This is nothing but bitter whine made from sour grapes.

746 stratergic thinking  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 8:56:42am

Hey John,

Tell you what. Just go away. Not tomorrow, not next week. NOW!

You're already going to go down in history as running the most inept campaign ever. Your opponent had more problems than could be addressed in ONE commercial, and yet you didn't pith him on ANY of them.

You had no passion, no conviction. Just tired ass oldness, you didn't eve ACT like you wanted to win.

Go away.

747 avanti  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 9:04:46am

re: #731 Syrah

I don't down ding people here very much.

I made an exception for you today.

Yea, I didn't notice the Karma thing until just now. Does that mean I'll be booted at some Karma point level for being on the wrong side of a civil discussion ?

748 KitchenQueen  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 9:18:14am

re: #283 dareya

Palin is dangerous and scary. So far out of her league that it was painful to watch. (Am I missing something?)

Your side is pretty worried about how popular she is, aren't you? Every time I read an attack on her it makes me like her more for 2012.

749 jmcgachey  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 9:23:45am

Four words you'll never hear from Sarah..."McCain's got my back."

750 LeePro  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 10:16:17am

McCain said he has “the greatest appreciation for Gov. Palin and her family, and it was a great joy to know them.”

"...was...?" You betcha!

*SPIT!*

I feel dirty to have voted for this self-serving bastard!

PALIN/STEELE '12

751 Zimriel  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 10:40:18am

re: #434 avanti

OK, time to be honest, even at the risk of being called a troll. To me and many of my center, and center left friends, Palin seemed at best, a empty vessel. Not stupid, she is bright enough, just ignorant about issues you would not expect her to know as governor of wilderness state. Maybe in 4 years, or eight, she'll be up to speed.
There is no question the base will go nuts over her, but she lost the independents and the center this time around and will again unless she does some homework.
Obama may alo lack experince, but he at least could handle interviews without inspiring a Saturday Night Live skit.
Perhaps she was over handled and would have done better had they had let her go, but the GOP was scared to death to chance it. Just my honest opinion, flame away.

Wow, a lot of kneejerk whacks on the minus button. Are pro-Palin commenters kneeling over their keyboards or what?

Look, it's fair enough to thump trolls who lob gratuitous insults, jump on speaking missteps, or just plain lie. But avanti made a distinction between stupid (Palin isn't) and ignorant (Palin was).

Palin did lose the moderates. I happen to think that the moderates were and are wrong on principle (they have none), and that most of them were waiting for any excuse to vote for The One We've Been Waiting For. But as long as we're living under a democracy and not a Stuart restoration or whatever, our presidents serve at the pleasure of an electorate - in which a "moderate"'s vote counts the same as ours.

The question has to be how Palin can win over moderates, or better yet convince them that her brand of conservatism is better than fudgy "moderation" and/or Gramschi's progressive socialism. Palin can do that by governing her state for another three years such that people want to move there. She just wasn't ready this year.

752 RayJ  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 11:07:38am

re: #434 avanti

Wow. I'm a pretty big fan of Palin and thought your comment was fair. I disagree with a few points, but it was fair.
I bumped you up a point for all its worth.

753 avanti  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 11:10:31am

re: #751 Zimriel

OK, while I appreciate your comments supporting my right to post my opinion, why the moderates have no principles line from you ?
I happen to think that many folks across the spectrum have principles, love this country and the rest. We may agree or disagree with them, but unless we respect other opinions, we'll never win their vote.
In the Palin example, her principles appealed to the GOP base, but for what ever reason, not to the middle or left. I happen to feel neither side can win without the middle. I think Obama knew that and tossed a bone to the left without scaring off the middle. Now that he's won I can only hope he governs from the middle. Rest assured that if goes goes way left I'll be the first to call him out.
If I were a rabid left winger, I would suggest the GOP move even further to the social right driving off even more voters, but I want a socially liberal, fiscally conservative candidate to choose from at some point and neither party is giving me that.
Again, my rookie question. Is their a negative Karma point that triggers the trap door?

754 h0mi  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 12:03:42pm

I'm not a big Palin fan but in all honesty, I'm really glad McCain lost and I just wish I could take back my vote. Had McCain won, I'm certain he'd be throwing her under the bus right about now (or trying to) and the resulting infighting would be more of a distraction than anything going on these days.

755 martdod  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 12:18:21pm

"my corpse is still warm, you know?”

Barely tepid I would say, and now showing some more of his true color. I am "almost" happy this jerk didn't win. I truly hope his career is almost over. One less RINO to contend with!

756 strangelove  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 12:59:16pm

re: #3 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Senator McCain, go away.

...and take Simpleton Sarah with you...you're both too dumb for the job.

757 Obsidiandog  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 1:04:43pm

Being a classy maverick means never having to say you are sorry. It's obvious that the Palin pick was solely to bring the base back into the fold and McCain knew that she didn't represent his views, then or in the future. McCain's silence while former aides were sliming her is telling. She was a gambit to win the election, like a Hail Mary that came up short. Pawlenty is more McCain's speed but if he had been on the ticket Repubs would have just stayed home.
I also think WAY too much emphasis was placed on Palin's qualifications to be president. She was on the ticket as a vice presidential candidate, she shouldn't be expected to be Dick Cheney right off the bat. McCain will probably live to be 100, but the media and the Dems managed to convince moderate Repubs that Maverick already had one foot in the grave.

758 txleadfoot00  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 1:27:38pm

People of Arizona: please, for the love of God, vote Captain McVain out in 2010! I'm sick of this damn fool.

759 Joan  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 4:39:52pm

re: #724 maximoso

*sigh*
Disturbing. Still, I'm hoping for slow. Maybe that's not going to be the way of it though.

760 Star Tripper  Tue, Dec 16, 2008 5:18:00pm

re: #17 Max Darkside
Maybe the Bull Moose Party? Although Teddy was a bit of a progressive.


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 Frank says:

Here I stand hoping against hope that it's a chick with a low voice. -- At a concert in Beloit, Wisconsin 1968 or 69, when a guy in the audience yelled out, "Eat me Zappa".