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Counterknowledge: Pat Buchanan Flirts with Holocaust Revisionism

Opinion | Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 5:52:32 pm PST

Counterknowledge’s Michael MacConnell has an excellent takedown of Pat Buchanan and his latest hobby horse, a sort of squishy Holocaust revisionism: ‘For the six years before Britain declared war, there was no Holocaust’: Pat Buchanan flirts with revisionism.

If the option had been available to him, would Hitler, instead of commit genocide, simply have expelled all such “undesirables” from Germany and the areas he occupied? I suppose he might, but such a question is moot, because it introduces an element which was not open to the German leader. It was not open to him because he had chosen to wage an aggressive war on two fronts. Buchanan seems to believe that if only Britain had been more compliant with militant German expansionism and the British Navy not quite so powerful, Hitler would have simply sent all the Jews to Madagascar, where they’d have lived happily ever after.

This is unsupported by the available evidence. Hitler had every opportunity to remove the eventual victims of the T4 program from Germany. He had been killing them from the beginning of 1939 – before the war with Poland, Great Britain and France. He could have shipped them off to Africa or wherever, but it was cheaper to kill them. There is no reason to believe that Hitler would have accorded the Jews, Gypsies or Slavs any greater degree of consideration. That is the kind of man Hitler was. It is perhaps time Buchanan realised that.

Buchanan in fact seems unable to recognise Hitler as a supreme sociopathic murderer. Surely any study of Hitler’s actions must originate with the basic moral consensus that ethnic cleansing is wrong. In the same way he blithely overlooks the right of non-Europeans to live independently of European Imperial overlordship, Buchanan overlooks the basic criminality of genocide and cheerfully goes straight to the mechanics of ethnic cleansing. The logic seems to go like this: Hitler can’t just ship them out; those horrid allies are making that impossible by fighting back against his war of aggression, so therefore it is the fault of the western allies that Hitler decided to kill off millions of civilians. That is patently absurd and morally reptilian.

Hey, that’s an insult to reptiles.

For our past entries about Pat Buchanan and his paleocon antisemitic agenda, here’s an LGF search.

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412 comments

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1 saberry0530  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 5:53:06pm

Just like Pat.

2 NYCHardhat  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 5:53:35pm

Pat Buchanan. Thats a Repub that should just shut the f*** up.

3 gmsc  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 5:53:49pm

"It's time for Holocaust kookery . . . It's Pat!"

4 gclaghorn  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 5:54:12pm

Does anyone take Pat seriously anymore?

5 LilyGecko  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 5:55:20pm

Talked with a Holocaust survivor a few months ago. I'm sure he can tell you how Pat is all correct.

6 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 5:55:21pm

re: #4 gclaghorn

Does anyone take Pat seriously anymore?

Hannity does. He's on his show about every other day it seems.

7 Bloodnok  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 5:55:43pm

re: #4 gclaghorn

Does anyone take Pat seriously anymore?

FNC, unfortunately.

8 OldLineTexan  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 5:55:46pm

I call a patwa on his arse.

9 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 5:56:18pm

Any post on Pat Buchanan is, by definition, a boob thread.

10 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 5:56:27pm

re: #5 LilyGecko

Talked with a Holocaust survivor a few months ago. I'm sure he can tell you how Pat is all correct.

I studied about the 13 million who weren't able to tell us or him about it.

11 Silhouette  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 5:57:09pm

Let's head off the inevitable confusion with Pat Robinson by reminding people at the beginning that they are two different people.

12 saberry0530  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 5:58:09pm

Has anyone figured out if Pat is just plain fuckin stupid, or just plain fuckin evil.

I vote C. BOTH

13 winston06  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 5:59:41pm

He is America's Ahmadinejad now? WHat a low life scumbag...

14 winston06  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:00:23pm

re: #2 NYCHardhat

he ain't a republican. he is a lunatic KKK

15 nightintheruts  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:00:32pm

pat buchanan
pat robertson

both patently insane.

16 winston06  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:00:59pm

re: #12 saberry0530

both?

17 winston06  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:01:17pm

re: #7 Bloodnok

MSNBC

18 stevieray  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:01:20pm
As for his constant and bizarre attacks on Mr. Churchill, I can but ascribe them to jealousy.

I don't think its jealousy of Churchill that drives Buchanan. I think its a growing revulsion with democracy. He seems to be on some sort of "will to power" bender for the last decade.

"In Search Of... the Right Benevolent Dictator"

19 NYCHardhat  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:01:29pm

re: #14 winston06

he ain't a republican. he is a lunatic KKK

Unfortunately, crazy knows no bounds.

20 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:01:34pm
....Hitler would have simply sent all the Jews to Madagascar, where they’d have lived happily ever after.

I was In Mauritius (near Madagascar) a few months ago and I learned there was a concentration camp there. Oddly enough It was run by the British.....
The Virtual Jewish History Tour: Mauritius

The detainees were made up of 800 Jews from Vienna, the remnants of the Jewish community of Danzig (Gdansk) and a Maccabi-He-Halutz transport from Czechoslovakia. The men were held in a former jailhouse and the women in adjacent iron huts. Though not maltreated, the refugees suffered from tropical diseases and inadequate food and clothing. After the ban of interactions between the sexes was lifted, 60 children were born in the camps. During the internment, the South African Jewish Board of Deputies and other Jewish organizations such as the Jewish Agency and the Zionist Federation sent aid to the refugees in the form of food, clothing, medicines, and religious items. Through the Zionist Association of Mauritius, they worked for the release of the refugees and for them to be sent to Palestine. In all, 128 prisoners died in the camp and were buried in the "Jewish section of the cemetery of St. Martin," approximately a mile away from the campsite. At the end of the war, the refugees were allowed to either return to their former homes or make aliyah, but most chose the latter.

21 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:01:38pm

Buchannan has really gone downhill over the last twenty years or so. He has gone stark, raving mad. It's time his 15 minutes are over, and then let him fade into the background noise.

22 winston06  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:01:52pm

re: #19 NYCHardhat

He's just an awful man.

23 opinionated  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:02:01pm
If the option had been available to him, would Hitler, instead of commit genocide, simply have expelled all such “undesirables” from Germany and the areas he occupied?

If there is a Hell, Pat, you can put the question to him personally.

24 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:02:09pm

re: #12 saberry0530

Has anyone figured out if Pat is just plain fuckin stupid, or just plain fuckin evil.

I vote C. BOTH

I think he is probably very smart and very evil.

25 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:02:15pm
26 rightymouse  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:02:21pm

Pat Buchanan and Oswald Mosley would have been bestest friends back in the 30's.

27 Blackacre  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:02:22pm

Buchanan's statements read better in the original German.

28 NYCHardhat  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:02:26pm

re: #22 winston06

He's just an awful man.

This is true.

29 Thanos  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:02:26pm

The important part is where he thoroughly rubs Buchanan's nose in the facts that that Holocaust started well prior to the Wannsee conference.

30 mean Gene  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:02:49pm

You know, the way businesses are going under, if we don't have classical historical works (1st person accounts) in hand now we might have a next generation who believes this garbage!
Publishers, bookstores and even libraries are pathetic!

31 FrogMarch  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:03:08pm

NOW - will Fox news stop having him on as a "guest"?

32 jcm  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:03:18pm

Pukecanan's two brain cells couldn't flirt with each other.

33 winston06  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:03:21pm

re: #28 NYCHardhat

U know what is more awful? That the ignorant people think he represents GOP or Conservatives.

34 NYCHardhat  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:03:46pm

re: #33 winston06

U know what is more awful? That the ignorant people think he represents GOP or Conservatives.

Exactly.

35 bellamags  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:03:53pm

re: #28 NYCHardhat

I'm home. and I agree with you Pat just needs to be quiet.

36 LilyGecko  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:04:14pm

It'd be a nice Christmas present from Fox, right?
re: #31 FrogMarch

NOW - will Fox news stop having him on as a "guest"?

37 NYCHardhat  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:04:27pm

re: #35 bellamags

I'm home. and I agree with you Pat just needs to be quiet.

Hi hun. So far, everyone here wants to be invited to the wedding.

38 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:04:41pm

re: #30 mean Gene

You know, the way businesses are going under, if we don't have classical historical works (1st person accounts) in hand now we might have a next generation who believes this garbage!
Publishers, bookstores and even libraries are pathetic!

Steven Speilberg's Shoah project is getting it all on tape from the survivors so that cannot happen.

39 CapeCoddah  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:04:59pm

I hope some interviewer someday has the nerve to hit him square with this, and expose him for what he is, an despicable Nazi/ Hitler sympathizer, who continually makes excuses for the heinous, inexcusable and unforgivable murder and torture of millions of innocent human beings. Only problem is he would not know he should be embarrassed and ashamed of himself. He is a disgrace.

40 snowcrash  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:05:10pm

re: #31 FrogMarch
He is a regular contributor on MSNBC Morning Joe show with Joe Scarborough. Unbelievable.

41 OldLineTexan  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:05:11pm

re: #33 winston06

U know what is more awful? That the ignorant people think he represents GOP or Conservatives.

That is the plan.

42 itellu3times  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:05:24pm

re: #4 gclaghorn

Does anyone take Pat seriously anymore?

No. Can't. Sorry Pat, you jumped the shark. Just move to Massachusetts, marry Alan Shore, and let the mad cow run away with you.

43 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:05:44pm

re: #31 FrogMarch

NOW - will Fox news stop having him on as a "guest"?

Probably not but it would be nice to see more guests refuse to be on the show with him.

44 bellamags  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:05:58pm

re: #37 NYCHardhat

Hi hun. So far, everyone here wants to be invited to the wedding.

Ok. If we get married, everyone is invited. Shouldn't we meet first? LOL

45 itellu3times  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:06:29pm

But wait, back in the real world, oil went below $40/barrel at the same time the dollar lost big against the Euro? This is good, but holy mad cow, wtf is going on.

46 NYCHardhat  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:06:53pm

re: #44 bellamags

Ok. If we get married, everyone is invited. Shouldn't we meet first? LOL

Hold your horses. Of course. I'm just saying, look at the previous thread. Our footrub sparked a riot.

47 Luigi  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:07:00pm

I think this sort of thing is why Buchanan is welcome on MSNBC as a political analyst. He's against the war. He's against Israel. Functionally, he's the same as a liberal.

48 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:07:30pm
49 LilyGecko  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:07:30pm

re: #38 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Steven Speilberg's Shoah project is getting it all on tape from the survivors so that cannot happen.

Just looked at the website. Good for them. Here's the story from the guy I talked with.

"When I got to New York, I wanted copies of my Holocaust photo. I had trouble with copying it, so a man had to come help. He saw my photos and asked if they were mug shots. I told him I was a Holocaust survivor.

He said, 'What's that?' "

50 DistantThunder  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:07:38pm

No one recovers from this kind of warped.

51 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:08:01pm

re: #44 bellamags

Ok. If we get married, everyone is invited. Shouldn't we meet first? LOL

There's no spontaneity if you do that! C'mon! You only live once! GO FOR IT!

52 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:08:54pm

re: #41 OldLineTexan

Yeah, it is almost as though Buchannan wants to irreparably damage the Conservatives. He keeps going further and further off the deep end. He needs to STFU, and stand down.

53 notutopia  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:09:00pm

Buchanan: Diary of a Madman v2.0

54 Thanos  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:09:18pm

Earlier Kilgore mentioned that a search for "Fjordman" at Stormfront brings up three pages worth of indexed individual posts mentioning him. A search for "Pat Buchanan" brings up 19 pages...

55 bellamags  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:09:23pm

re: #46 NYCHardhat

Hold your horses. Of course. I'm just saying, look at the previous thread. Our footrub sparked a riot.

I still need a footrub. he he he . I have three questions for you. What are your favorite pair of shoes, What is your favorite funny movie of all time and What was your last music purchase?

56 Tarkus289  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:09:27pm

re: #49 LilyGecko

Good grief

57 runrabbitrun  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:09:42pm

re: #31 FrogMarch

NOW - will Fox news stop having him on as a "guest"?

Not so long as the 'evil' viewing demographic (demon-graphic?) keeps tuning in to watch him. Sadly they too count when Fox pitches their audience numbers to advertisers. They are not principled when it comes to ratings.

58 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:09:45pm

re: #25 buzzsawmonkey

There is nothing else that need be said about him.

Sure there is - he is an asshole. There. Now there is nothing else that can be said about him.

59 Yankee Division Son  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:10:14pm

Pat's thinking is absolute crap. A large smelly pile of it. Many Jews tried to escape Germany through countries like Switzerland, but were turned away at the border by the Swedes for fear of inducing Hitler's anger. In fact, Germany paid to have them shipped back to their doom in the camps.

Hitler knew war was the time to get away with "the final solution", and no one could protest (if Germany won, of course).

"Who remembers the Armenian massacres (during WW1) now?"
- Adolf Hitler (while planning the final solution to "the Jewish question")

60 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:10:15pm

re: #53 notutopia


Thou shalt not dis the Prince of Darkness :-)

61 HoosierHoops  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:10:26pm

re: #46 NYCHardhat

Hold your horses. Of course. I'm just saying, look at the previous thread. Our footrub sparked a riot.

This is getting better than the 4th quarter of the Celtics game.
/
And kind regards Bella.. You rock

62 maddogg  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:10:27pm

re: #25 buzzsawmonkey

Pat Buchanan is a Coughlinite; he grew up in, and adheres to, the now-discredited wing of the Catholic Church which, prior to WWII, was openly antisemitic.

There is nothing else that need be said about him.


Institutional lunacy.

63 bellamags  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:10:43pm

re: #58 karmic_inquisitor

Sure there is - he is an asshole. There. Now there is nothing else that can be said about him.

LOL. rotating title nom.

64 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:10:44pm

re: #54 Thanos

Fjordy has some catching up to do.

65 nightintheruts  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:11:05pm

re: #55 bellamags

I still need a footrub. he he he . I have three questions for you. What are your favorite pair of shoes, What is your favorite funny movie of all time and What was your last music purchase?

Hey, those are the "tougher" questions they're going to ask Obama!

66 bellamags  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:11:15pm

re: #61 HoosierHoops

This is getting better than the 4th quarter of the Celtics game.
/
And kind regards Bella.. You rock

Hoops. That is soooo sweet. You guys rock.

67 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:11:37pm

re: #60 Iron Fist

Thou shalt not dis the Prince of Darkness :-)

That's for sure. Diss Ozzy and his wife will tear your hair out!

68 Tarkus289  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:11:44pm

re: #59 Yankee Division Son

"Who remembers the Armenian massacres (during WW1) now?"

I do, my Grandmother was there, she escaped by the skin of her 7 year old teeth.

69 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:12:41pm

re: #64 Killgore Trout

Give him time. He's new at this racism thing. Well, OK, he's been doing it for a while, and it looks like he's gotten the hang of it.

70 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:13:00pm

I guess "morally reptilian" is a roundabout way of saying "cold blooded." :-|

71 nightintheruts  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:13:07pm

re: #67 Dark_Falcon

That's for sure. Diss Ozzy and his wife will tear your hair out!


LOL...I saw where she just did that to some little blonde person...

72 Thanos  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:13:52pm

re: #64 Killgore Trout

Fjordy has some catching up to do.

It's all the flowery fluff verbiage he hides the hate in, he's beyond the reading comprehension level of the average stormfronter.

73 fclass308  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:14:09pm

re: #6 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Hannity does. He's on his show about every other day it seems.


Tweedle Dum and Tweedle Dummer.

74 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:14:12pm
75 Killgore Trout  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:14:14pm

OT: Scientists find way to turn cheap plonk into premium wine

Scientists have found a quick way to turn cheap plonk into something pleasantly drinkable.

With a burst of electricity, a young acidic wine can be rapidly aged, creating something more mellow and aromatic.

So promising are the results, that no fewer than five wineries have invested in the technology which could allow them to get their wines into the shops faster and cut the costs of storage.

Science!
/cheers!

76 Salamantis  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:14:27pm

re: #40 snowcrash

He is a regular contributor on MSNBC Morning Joe show with Joe Scarborough. Unbelievable.

Along with Mika Brzezinski, daughter of Zbigniew.

77 NYCHardhat  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:14:29pm

re: #55 bellamags

I still need a footrub. he he he . I have three questions for you. What are your favorite pair of shoes, What is your favorite funny movie of all time and What was your last music purchase?

Fav shoes: My Fitzwell hiking shoes so comfy
fav funny movie: dumb and dumber
last music purchase: Bonnie "Prince" Billy Lie down in the light

78 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:14:48pm

re: #68 Tarkus289

I wouldn't have known about the Armenian genocide except for the fact that I went to school with an Armenian kid. He filled in a lot of the details that history class left out.

79 Cutty Sark  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:14:51pm

" Pat " needs to flushed down the toilet , and this is nothing new for Buchannan . He's no better than the worst of Holocaust deniers . He has an anti-semitic, anti Israel agenda .
How he manages to remain 'respectable ' is a wonder . But looking at it objectively , HE HAS AN AUDIENCE .

But what do you expect from Tricky Dicks # 1 speechwriter ? Not to mention some of [ the crook ] Agnew's more infamous speeches .

LOL...."meandering nabobs of negativism " a Buchanninism if there ever was one .

Face it , he's a Conservative bigot and anti-semite , and there is absolutely no reason to handle him with kidd gloves .

80 Bloodnok  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:15:08pm

re: #64 Killgore Trout

Fjordy has some catching up to do.

Those 3 pages are probably only the posts where those fuckwits could figure out how to spell his name correctly.

81 NYCHardhat  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:17:15pm

re: #55 bellamags

I still need a footrub. he he he . I have three questions for you. What are your favorite pair of shoes, What is your favorite funny movie of all time and What was your last music purchase?

And you?

82 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:17:16pm

re: #64 Killgore Trout

Maybe fjordy and pukeanan could work together on a new book or something.

Wouldn't that be nice?

83 notutopia  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:17:21pm

re: #70 NomadOfNorad

poikilotherm: Buchanan qualifies...but, He'll never even make it to gamey buttocks in the Lizard world.....

84 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:17:45pm

re: #79 Cutty Sark

Please don't tar Nixon too much by associating him with this moron. Nixon broke the law, it is true, but he never lost his grip on reality, something that cannot be said of Patrick Buchanan.

85 rightymouse  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:18:16pm
Buchanan in fact seems unable to recognise Hitler as a supreme sociopathic murderer.

Unfortunately, Buchanan's not alone in this failure to recognize Hitler for what he was even early on.

But one would think that Buchanan, at least, has the facts of history at hand. Appeasers like Chamberlain did not. He just had a failed political approach that will always fail with anyone like Hitler. One can never appease sociopathic types. Ever.

/except if you die by their hand, of course. Then they win and are appeased.

86 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:18:26pm

re: #54 Thanos

Earlier Kilgore mentioned that a search for "Fjordman" at Stormfront brings up three pages worth of indexed individual posts mentioning him. A search for "Pat Buchanan" brings up 19 pages...

re: #74 buzzsawmonkey

BTW, I want it clearly understood that I am not attacking the Catholic Church in my #25 above. Whatever its attitudes or problems in the past, the Church since WWII has made a concerted effort to address and expunge antisemitism from itself.

It is to Buchanan's discredit that he has resisted, and continues to resist, the Church's efforts in this regard.

As a Catholic I didn't take it that way at all. You are right.

87 joecitizen  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:19:13pm

re: #79 Cutty Sark it is 'nattering nabobs of negativism'.

88 hazzyday  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:19:43pm

I am willing to call Pat a crypto-nazi if there ever was one. He has good friends at Fox News. Sean Hannity. I was viewing Pat as a Hannity mentor when I watched the show.

89 Victory Gin For All  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:19:44pm

re: #6 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Hannity does. He's on his show about every other day it seems.

re: #10 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

I studied about the 13 million who weren't able to tell us or him about it.

Alex, I'll take "Butt Ugly" for $1000.

"This legendary Canadian bass player's mother was a holocaust survivor."

90 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:19:58pm

re: #82 Sharmuta

Maybe fjordy and pukeanan could work together on a new book or something.

Wouldn't that be nice?

Working Title: 'Two Heads, No Brains". The previous working title was: "I Left My Soul at the Klan Rally".

91 pat  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:20:20pm

Buchanan is simply wrong.

92 saberry0530  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:20:20pm

re: #75 Killgore Trout

OT: Scientists find way to turn cheap plonk into premium wine

Science!
/cheers!

JUICE+JUICE=GOOD JUICE

93 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:20:26pm

Hey Pat.

Please shut up.

Thank you.

94 hazzyday  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:20:27pm

And I was a fan of Pat's on CNN Crossfire. He's taken the big left turn in life.

95 NYCHardhat  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:20:54pm

re: #89 Victory Gin For All

Alex, I'll take "Butt Ugly" for $1000.

"This legendary Canadian bass player's mother was a holocaust survivor."

Who is Geddy Lee?

96 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:21:09pm

re: #54 Thanos

Earlier Kilgore mentioned that a search for "Fjordman" at Stormfront brings up three pages worth of indexed individual posts mentioning him. A search for "Pat Buchanan" brings up 19 pages...

Woops on the prior response ...

Was going to say that I sometime think that Fjordman is a paid agent of Seagate - the more his stuff gets indexed, the more drives people have to buy. Quantity over Quality = bigger profits for Seagate.

/

97 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:21:22pm

re: #83 notutopia

poikilotherm: Buchanan qualifies...but, He'll never even make it to gamey buttocks in the Lizard world.....

ROFL ! ! !

98 Thanos  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:21:25pm

Just to point out that Michael could use some support in the comments there, from Johann:

How on earth do you dummkopfs work out that the most popular man of the 20th Century was in any way against England? This Great Statesman used to admire the British Empire and point out quite rightly how a small band of British soldiers controlled millions in India.

He had no designs whatsoever on England, and could with the might of the German Army have smashed England in 1941. After repeated peace overtures he even sent Rudolf Hess to sue for peace, a man not even involved in any war crimes (this did not stop him being murdered after spending 50 years in prison).

History is written by the victors, but wait: the truth will be seen in time. Napoleons in his time was branded ” The Monster of Europe”. In times to come Der Fuhrer will be vindicated and cleared and be seen in his true light, the bulwark against Bolshevism and American Capitalism, once more taking his place as the greatest visionary and most popular man of the 20th Century. The 200+ nations that fought on the Axis side couldn’t have been wrong.

I am no historian, but I know right from wrong. My own father was a proud member of the Leibstandarte and was vilified after the war (after of course the American carpet baggers had stolen his hard earned medals and dagger).

99 nightintheruts  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:21:30pm

re: #84 Dark_Falcon

Please don't tar Nixon too much by associating him with this moron. Nixon broke the law, it is true, but he never lost his grip on reality, something that cannot be said of Patrick Buchanan.

True...and compared to what was just voted in, we could now call him St. Nixon.

100 Hobbes  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:21:46pm

Ah, Pat, ah... what about the whole Master Race Theory?

101 bellamags  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:22:24pm

re: #77 NYCHardhat

Fav shoes: My Fitzwell hiking shoes so comfy
fav funny movie: dumb and dumber
last music purchase: Bonnie "Prince" Billy Lie down in the light


I just listened to the music. Pretty enjoyable. Never heard of them before. Dumb and Dumber is in my top five. Like your shoes answer.

102 snowcrash  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:22:35pm

re: #55 bellamags
Hurry up and answer nyc hardhat. LOL

103 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:22:43pm

re: #89 Victory Gin For All

Alex, I'll take "Butt Ugly" for $1000.

"This legendary Canadian bass player's mother was a holocaust survivor."

I've got a friend who is putting out a cd of music written by people effected by the Holocaust.

She told me, "It's not all depressing. Really!"

104 NYCHardhat  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:22:59pm

re: #102 snowcrash

Hurry up and answer nyc hardhat. LOL

ha!

105 Bloodnok  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:23:04pm

re: #93 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey Pat.

Please shut up.

Thank you.

This has a certain understated genius.

106 CapeCoddah  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:23:12pm

re: #102 snowcrash

Hurry up and answer nyc hardhat. LOL

Very subtle, snow.

107 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:23:13pm

re: #84 Dark_Falcon

Please don't tar Nixon too much by associating him with this moron. Nixon broke the law, it is true, but he never lost his grip on reality, something that cannot be said of Patrick Buchanan.

Course, now they've got this new movie taking potshots at Nixon. Probably full of revisionism and probably telling only half the story. Hopefully it tanks.

108 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:23:28pm

re: #89 Victory Gin For All

Alex, I'll take "Butt Ugly" for $1000.

"This legendary Canadian bass player's mother was a holocaust survivor."

You're Geddy Lee?

109 yochanan  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:23:41pm

asshat PUKEANAN.

110 Yankee Division Son  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:23:56pm

re: #68 Tarkus289

"Who remembers the Armenian massacres (during WW1) now?"

I do, my Grandmother was there, she escaped by the skin of her 7 year old teeth.

God bless her, (perhaps he already did, long ago)

111 Egfrow  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:24:05pm

It appears Pat is a Social Libertarian. Definitely not a conservative, then what current politician really is anymore. He's Social Libertarian with a tinge of Socialist Dictator tendencies. Oh, yes my dear Liberals, Nazi's are Socialists and are Left Wingers not Far Right wingers as you Orwellian want us to believe. Pat is so freaking annoying. He's is starting to rank up there with Sharpton nowadays in my book.

112 nyc redneck  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:24:19pm

pat blames the people who fought hitler for hitler's rabid cruelty to those he said he was going to kill in his book "mein kamp" written in l925.
pat is a lunatic to imply that had we coddle hitler he would have let the "undesirables" go w/ a happy cheerful wave. he has no way of knowing that.
pat should be blaming hitler himself for the horrible deeds he did.
and hitler might be rolling over in his hellish grave, anyway w/ stupid pat trying to run interference for him and diminish his true intent and goal to murder in a mass way. hitler was proud of his deeds.
pat should quit shilling for hitler. he is a meddlesome idiot.

113 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:24:36pm
114 bellamags  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:25:09pm

re: #81 NYCHardhat

And you?

Enzo black boots, Tommy Boy and Enya's Christmas album (not sure of the title).

115 3 wood  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:25:22pm

OT:

Blagojevich was bookie, says federal informant

The ABC7 I-Team has learned that an attorney who went undercover for the FBI in the late 1980's says he told federal authorities years ago about wrongdoing by Blagojevich.

His name is Robert Cooley.

Cooley was a criminal defense lawyer in Chicago in the late 1980's who became one of the most potent witnesses against Chicago corruption, testifying for federal prosecutors in cases that resulted in dozens of convictions.

Cooley says that before Rod Blagojevich got into politics he was a bookmaker on the North Side who regularly paid the Chicago mob to operate.

It just keeps getting better and better. If he ran book he also collected, if you get my drift. The shake down is part of his DNA.

116 rightymouse  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:25:43pm

re: #88 hazzyday

I am willing to call Pat a crypto-nazi if there ever was one. He has good friends at Fox News. Sean Hannity. I was viewing Pat as a Hannity mentor when I watched the show.

My take is that Hannity wants to keep the channel of communications open to everyone so he has access.

He's not stupid.

I don't always care for the 'open mike' to the likes of Buchanan and others that we don't care for, but consider the alternative.

Silence.

/do we really want that?

117 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:25:44pm

re: #108 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

You're Geddy Lee?

PIMF- WHO'S Geddy Lee?

118 Basho  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:26:02pm

re: #79 Cutty Sark


How he manages to remain 'respectable ' is a wonder . But looking at it objectively , HE HAS AN AUDIENCE .

It's his economic nationalism that has gained him an audience. When I'm watching The McLaughlin Group and I hear him talking about economics I can't help but agree. It's rare to hear something like that in the media. He's in a niche that I suspect people like him are having an easy time currently filling in Europe. Sad, I know...

119 Cognito  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:26:19pm

From Buchanan's actual essay:

The Brits kicked away their empire. Through colossal blunders, Britain twice declared war on a Germany that had not attacked her and did not want war with her, fought for 10 bloody years and lost it all.


That's an astonishing assertion, to me. He argues about Britain's involvement in the Second World War as though it happened in a vacuum.

120 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:26:32pm

re: #111 Egfrow

It appears Pat is a Social Libertarian. Definitely not a conservative, then what current politician really is anymore. He's Social Libertarian with a tinge of Socialist Dictator tendencies. Oh, yes my dear Liberals, Nazi's are Socialists and are Left Wingers not Far Right wingers as you Orwellian want us to believe. Pat is so freaking annoying. He's is starting to rank up there with Sharpton nowadays in my book.

I would say pat is a anti-Semitic f*ck-wad, but that's just me.

121 OldLineTexan  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:26:34pm

re: #117 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

PIMF- WHO'S Geddy Lee?

Infidel.

122 CapeCoddah  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:26:37pm

re: #115 3 wood

OT:

Blagojevich was bookie, says federal informant

It just keeps getting better and better. If he ran book he also collected, if you get my drift. The shake down is part of his DNA.

It certainly explains why he prefers to dress like a thug.

123 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:26:42pm

re: #105 Bloodnok

This has a certain understated genius.

Not so much. I have repeated the exact same post; probably, oh five times.

It doesn't work. But I'll keep plugging along.

124 notutopia  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:27:01pm

re: #107 NomadOfNorad

And Our greatgrandchildren will be watching the new vid movie on The Obama Presidency: How he saved the world in 30 days.....

125 NYCHardhat  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:27:23pm

re: #114 bellamags

Enzo black boots, Tommy Boy and Enya's Christmas album (not sure of the title).

Tommy Boy is great. Enya is quite good. Enzo black boots? Are they combat boots? JK.
Very nicely done.

126 Egfrow  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:27:45pm

re: #120 Sharmuta

I'll go with that one as well. I just felt like typing it the nice way. It gave me odd sense of solace.

127 notutopia  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:27:46pm

re: #113 buzzsawmonkey

We hope too Buzz. Sleep tite.

128 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:27:56pm

re: #123 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Not so much. I have repeated the exact same post; probably, oh five times.

It doesn't work. But I'll keep plugging along.

What doesn't work?

129 bellamags  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:28:02pm

Sorry it took so long - i was listening to re: #125 NYCHardhat

Tommy Boy is great. Enya is quite good. Enzo black boots? Are they combat boots? JK.
Very nicely done.

combat boots? i like Doc Martens.

130 The Shadow Do  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:28:05pm

Pat Buchanan? Oh, that likable conservative guy? Real, I dunno, 'gregarious' fellow I see on TV sometimes? That guy?

/typical viewer reaction

131 NY Nana  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:28:22pm

re: #120 Sharmuta

/Pat Buchanan is a Jew hater?!?!?!?!?!?!
Who knew?

I may be short, but I know how to use my good knee.

132 bellamags  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:28:39pm

wow don't know what happened there. LOL

I'm all flustered.

133 NYCHardhat  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:28:44pm

re: #129 bellamags

Sorry it took so long - i was listening to

combat boots? i like Doc Martens.

As do I. Oh you are getting better by the minute.

134 Basho  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:28:51pm

re: #120 Sharmuta

I would say pat is a anti-Semitic f*ck-wad, but that's just me.

LOL
You have such a way with words ;-)

135 Bobibutu  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:28:53pm

re: #4 gclaghorn

Does anyone take Pat seriously anymore?

I actually enjoyed listening to him ... but that was a long time ago in a Universe far away.

136 NYCHardhat  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:29:06pm

re: #132 bellamags

wow don't know what happened there. LOL

I'm all flustered.

Why is that?

137 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:29:13pm

re: #128 Walter L. Newton

What doesn't work?

Asking Pat (politely) to shut up.

138 bellamags  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:29:13pm

re: #131 NY Nana

/Pat Buchanan is a Jew hater?!?!?!?!?!?!
Who knew?

I may be short, but I know how to use my good knee.

LOL. that is great.

139 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:29:28pm

re: #124 notutopia

And Our greatgrandchildren will be watching the new vid movie on The Obama Presidency: How he saved the world in 30 days.....

That one will tank, too.

140 notutopia  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:29:33pm

re: #122 CapeCoddah

He does dress odd for a governor...thuggish...

141 CapeCoddah  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:29:41pm

re: #132 bellamags

wow don't know what happened there. LOL

I'm all flustered.

Somebody stand by with a bucket of water...

142 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:29:44pm

re: #137 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Asking Pat (politely) to shut up.

That doesn't work!

143 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:29:51pm

re: #119 Cognito

He argues about Britain's involvement in the Second World War as though it happened in a vacuum.

He is an utter nutjob revisionist. He is recasting the UK to then draw a parallel to the US and what mistakes we should no longer make. Like attack states that "don't want war with us".

144 yochanan  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:29:53pm

re: #52 Iron Fist

Yeah, it is almost as though Buchannan wants to irreparably damage the Conservatives. He keeps going further and further off the deep end. He needs to STFU, and stand down.

PEOPLE LIKE PUKEANAN are why some rational jews stay away from the gop.

145 NYCHardhat  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:29:58pm

re: #141 CapeCoddah

Somebody stand by with a bucket of water...

Ha!

146 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:30:01pm

re: #129 bellamags

Sorry it took so long - i was listening to

combat boots? i like Doc Martens.

I'm old enough to remember when someone said "Your mother wore combat boots" it was an insult....

147 DEZes  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:30:05pm

Stupid is as stupid does.

148 Egfrow  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:30:13pm

McCain, Huckabee, Buchanan, Powell... The New Voices of Conservatism. ;-/

149 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:30:23pm

re: #142 Walter L. Newton

That doesn't work!

As I have found. But, I do try to be polite.

150 Salamantis  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:30:46pm

re: #140 notutopia

He does dress odd for a governor...thuggish...

It's like he stole Joe Pesci's wardrobe...

151 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:30:47pm

BTW - this Pat Buchanan thread reminds me ...

Have I mentioned recently that John Kerry is an utter and complete idiot?

152 bellamags  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:30:58pm

re: #136 NYCHardhat

Why is that?

people are watching. ; ) LOL

153 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:31:09pm

re: #150 Salamantis

It's like he stole Joe Pesci's wardrobe...

...and language.

154 jwb7605  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:31:21pm

re: #151 karmic_inquisitor

BTW - this Pat Buchanan thread reminds me ...

Have I mentioned recently that John Kerry is an utter and complete idiot?

I heard he was in Vietnam.

155 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:31:30pm

re: #126 Egfrow

I believe one reaps what the sow. I feel no need to be polite to a man using revisionism to deny the Holocaust, because that is what buchanan is doing.

156 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:31:41pm

re: #148 Egfrow

McCain, Huckabee, Buchanan, Powell... The New Voices of Conservatism. ;-/

Don't forget Christie Todd Witless.

157 maddogg  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:31:45pm

There are perhaps thousands of Hitlers in the world. Like a virus, the proper conditions are required for one to rise to prominence. Whenever these conditions arise, a Hitler will grow like an infection. These conditions are developing in Europe right now.

158 NYCHardhat  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:32:03pm

re: #152 bellamags

people are watching. ; ) LOL

*blush*

159 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:32:11pm

re: #150 Salamantis

It's like he stole Joe Pesci's wardrobe...

And added helmet hair to the ensemble!

160 Cognito  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:32:12pm

re: #148 Egfrow

McCain, Huckabee, Buchanan, Powell... The New Voices of Conservatism. ;-/

Take it easy, there.

As they say on Sesame Street, "One of these things is not like the others."

161 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:32:15pm
162 Bobibutu  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:32:15pm

re: #154 jwb7605

I heard he was in Vietnam.

But just for a "short time."

163 NY Nana  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:32:20pm

re: #138 bellamags

Thanks. I was just trying to be polite. If I posted what I was really thinking? Oy!

164 VegasRick  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:32:20pm

re: #154 jwb7605

I heard he was in Vietnam.

That's why we won!
/nutters

165 wolfie  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:32:35pm

re: #25 buzzsawmonkey

Pat Buchanan is a Coughlinite; he grew up in, and adheres to, the now-discredited wing of the Catholic Church which, prior to WWII, was openly antisemitic.

There is nothing else that need be said about him.

The one extra thing I would say, buzz, is that he is also carrying on the specifically Irish Catholic tradition of Anglophobia, hence his disdain for Churchill.

166 notutopia  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:32:36pm

re: #141 CapeCoddah

Ammonia salts....stat!

167 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:32:38pm

re: #154 jwb7605

I heard he was in Vietnam.

Was he? Did he win any medals?

168 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:32:39pm

re: #131 NY Nana

I love you, {Nana}.

169 yochanan  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:32:48pm

re: #119 Cognito

he PUKEANAN is blameing the west for snicklegrubers crimes in the same way the left blames the west for the islmo fascists crimes

170 FrogMarch  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:32:52pm

OT: Chrystler shutting down for a month. UAW members will get the month off with 95% pay.

Hard to imagine why Chrysler is hemorrhaging cash.
& Golly - no wonder democrats support unions. Getting paid for not working is democrat socialism. /All businesses should be forced into such a horrid practice.

171 notutopia  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:33:16pm

re: #158 NYCHardhat

We do have private rooms in the lounge......

172 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:33:29pm
173 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:34:04pm

re: #153 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

...and language.

What?! Are you saying I don't talk nice? Is that what you're sayin'?!

/Goodfellas & Blago

174 NYCHardhat  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:34:06pm

re: #171 notutopia

We do have private rooms in the lounge......

I may need one.

175 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:34:22pm

re: #144 yochanan

Yeah, with his increasingly pro-Hitler fetish it's kind of hard to blame them. But Buchannan hasn't really been part of the GOP for, I don't know, fifteen years or so.

It's way past time to dust the motherfucker off of our coattails.

176 bellamags  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:34:25pm

re: #171 notutopia

We do have private rooms in the lounge......

are there really?

177 nightintheruts  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:34:31pm

re: #151 karmic_inquisitor

BTW - this Pat Buchanan thread reminds me ...

Have I mentioned recently that John Kerry is an utter and complete idiot?

And he smells like ketchup.

178 Egfrow  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:34:42pm

re: #153 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

...and language.

Would that be the Leo Getz Joe Pecsi or the Tommy DeVito Joe Pecsi?

179 NY Nana  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:35:01pm

re: #151 karmic_inquisitor

BTW - this Pat Buchanan thread reminds me ...

Have I mentioned recently that John Kerry is an utter and complete idiot?

It bears repeating every day....or every second. Can't remember. ;)

180 nyc redneck  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:35:19pm

is love blossoming on lgf?

181 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:35:27pm

re: #167 karmic_inquisitor

Was he? Did he win any medals?

Yep, Order of the Lying Weasel, 1st class.

182 notutopia  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:35:52pm

re: #160 Cognito

But Cog, they all ARE starting to look like Banana, plantain, banana, plantain...

183 NY Nana  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:35:56pm

re: #168 Sharmuta

Love you, {Sharm}.

184 rightymouse  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:36:03pm

re: #120 Sharmuta

I would say pat is a anti-Semitic f*ck-wad, but that's just me.


Not just you.

The unmitigated horror of what Hitler and his Germany did at that time escapes Buchanan.

The blame is squarely on Hitler and his willing minions/appeasers.

185 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:36:04pm

re: #170 FrogMarch

OT: Chrystler shutting down for a month. UAW members will get the month off with 95% pay.

Hard to imagine why Chrysler is hemorrhaging cash.
& Golly - no wonder democrats support unions. Getting paid for not working is democrat socialism. /All businesses should be forced into such a horrid practice.

So I guess this means if Chrysler goes belly-up the UAW workers think they will get 95% of their pay for the rest of their lives?

186 snowcrash  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:36:15pm

re: #106 CapeCoddah
I am enjoying this. I just know my kids will drag me away before I find out if there is a holiday romance thing going on so forgive my impatience. Now hurry up with the Q and A bella and NYC..

187 albusteve  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:36:19pm

Pat lost his little square moustach when he became a celebrity...where's yer stash Pat?

188 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:36:19pm

re: #180 nyc redneck


Love already has. I met the current Girlfriend on LGF.

189 OldLineTexan  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:36:29pm

re: #160 Cognito

Take it easy, there.

As they say on Sesame Street, "One of these things is not like the others."

Nobody who ever really listened to Powell would ever call him a conservative.

190 CapeCoddah  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:36:33pm

re: #166 notutopia

Ammonia salts....stat!

Hell with that, we need to get a nun in here immediately!

191 rightymouse  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:36:42pm

re: #148 Egfrow

McCain, Huckabee, Buchanan, Powell... The New Voices of Conservatism. ;-/

Add Haig in there.

192 notutopia  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:36:43pm

re: #176 bellamags

For true... follow the right upper header to the lounge and ya'll can have a private chat there...

193 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:36:49pm

re: #171 notutopia

We do have private rooms in the lounge......

Stay out of room 4, though. It was an accident, I swear!

194 bellamags  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:36:57pm

re: #188 Iron Fist

Love already has. I met the current Girlfriend on LGF.

no way. that is so cool.

195 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:37:05pm

re: #155 Sharmuta

I believe one reaps what the sow. I feel no need to be polite to a man using revisionism to deny the Holocaust, because that is what buchanan is doing.

Is Trashcanan denying the Holocaust or saying that "gee, what else could Hitler do?"

I ask that, because I'm not sure if I've actually read or heard him totally deny that it happened?

196 OldLineTexan  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:37:07pm

re: #180 nyc redneck

is love blossoming on lgf?

Are you trying to seduce me, Mrs. Robinson?

197 yochanan  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:37:23pm

re: #175 Iron Fist

when hannity keeps putting him on the show the ave viewer will not sept him from the rest of us.


one of the reasons i stopped watching ol'bannity

198 nightintheruts  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:37:59pm

re: #180 nyc redneck

is love blossoming on lgf?

199 notutopia  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:38:01pm

re: #190 CapeCoddah

LOL !

200 wolfie  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:38:10pm

re: #130 The Shadow Do

Yep!
That's the problem. He's a good TV talker, a real pro, so he gets a lot of airtime.
Show biz. Sigh.

201 CapeCoddah  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:38:26pm

re: #186 snowcrash

I am enjoying this. I just know my kids will drag me away before I find out if there is a holiday romance thing going on so forgive my impatience. Now hurry up with the Q and A bella and NYC..

You need to read faster, snow, they are headed to a private room already.

202 Thanos  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:38:44pm

re: #160 Cognito

Take it easy, there.

As they say on Sesame Street, "One of these things is not like the others."

Yes, but if you had to choose just one on a mensa test which would it be? :)

203 rightymouse  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:38:53pm

re: #148 Egfrow

McCain, Huckabee, Buchanan, Powell... The New Voices of Conservatism. ;-/


And Gingrich.

204 jwb7605  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:39:01pm

re: #195 Walter L. Newton

Is Trashcanan denying the Holocaust or saying that "gee, what else could Hitler do?"

I ask that, because I'm not sure if I've actually read or heard him totally deny that it happened?

Buchanan does not deny it happened.
He typically justifies it, and makes it sound like it was something less than 'holocaust' proportion.

205 NY Nana  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:39:15pm

re: #167 karmic_inquisitor

Remember Medalgate?

206 Egfrow  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:39:42pm

re: #160 Cognito

Take it easy, there.

As they say on Sesame Street, "One of these things is not like the others."

True but none of them are Conservatives.

207 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:40:15pm

re: #189 OldLineTexan

I don't see any of them as really ponying up to Reagan-style Conservatism. McCain isn't really much of a Conservative, and Huckabee is a Big Government lover even though he's fairly Conservative on most social issues.

208 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:40:17pm

re: #204 jwb7605

Buchanan does not deny it happened.
He typically justifies it, and makes it sound like it was something less than 'holocaust' proportion.

That's what I thought. Thanks for reconfirming that.

209 Thanos  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:40:24pm

I was just at PB"s site, no surprise that he's got Taki Theocrapulous in the sidebar.

210 snowcrash  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:40:43pm

re: #201 CapeCoddah
She shouldn't go if she just met him. She should stay here, where there is safety in numbers. Huge numbers. 2200 on line as we speak. LOL

211 3 wood  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:40:58pm

re: #170 FrogMarch

I volunteer to stop working today for 95% pay.

No problem.

212 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:41:01pm

re: #178 Egfrow

Would that be the Leo Getz Joe Pecsi or the Tommy DeVito Joe Pecsi?

Either.

213 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:41:33pm

re: #211 3 wood

I volunteer to stop working today for 95% pay.

No problem.

I'm there. Can we start a movement.

214 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:41:37pm

re: #195 Walter L. Newton

Is Trashcanan denying the Holocaust or saying that "gee, what else could Hitler do?"

I ask that, because I'm not sure if I've actually read or heard him totally deny that it happened?

He is revising history in an attempt to minimize the atrocities of nazi germany. It's a form of denial to minimize the Holocaust IMO. "Well- it wasn't that bad". Really- it's almost worse than denial in that it's more sinister.

215 Joan  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:41:49pm

squishy Holocaust revisionism: ‘For the six years before Britain declared war, there was no Holocaust’

For the six years before she sought a restraining order, the beatings were not fatal. So, she should just have tried to be a more dutiful wife. After all, that restraining order was what really set him off.

Ain't no cure for stupid.

216 Salamantis  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:41:56pm

re: #197 yochanan

when hannity keeps putting him on the show the ave viewer will not sept him from the rest of us.

one of the reasons i stopped watching ol'bannity

Joe Scarborough is usually worth watching...Pat Buchanan and Mika Brzezinski aren't.

/Glenn Beck can be worth the time on occasion, too. But not Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, or Lou Dobbs.

217 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:41:56pm

re: #194 bellamags

Yep. We started talking on the phone with each other around four years ago. At the time she lived in California. She moved out here over two years ago. So far, so good.

218 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:42:57pm

re: #214 Sharmuta

He is revising history in an attempt to minimize the atrocities of nazi germany. It's a form of denial to minimize the Holocaust IMO. "Well- it wasn't that bad". Really- it's almost worse than denial in that it's more sinister.

I was just wondering how you were using it. Thanks.

219 NYCHardhat  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:43:20pm

re: #217 Iron Fist

Yep. We started talking on the phone with each other around four years ago. At the time she lived in California. She moved out here over two years ago. So far, so good.

That is cool.

220 wolfie  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:43:51pm

re: #155 Sharmuta

He is not denying it. He's blaming it on the English and therefore apologizing for Hitler. That's scarier and more pernicious, IMO, because historical illiterates are more likely to buy his line than an outright denial.

221 jwb7605  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:43:58pm

re: #216 Salamantis

Joe Scarborough is usually worth watching...Pat Buchanan and Mika Brzezinski aren't.

/Glenn Beck can be worth the time on occasion, too. But not Sean Hannity, Bill O'Reilly, or Lou Dobbs.

I'm waiting for Beck's new show on Fox.
I like Glenn Beck, but he can be depressing.
Unfortunately, he's been pretty accurate with his predictions -- especially the economic ones.

222 HoosierHoops  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:45:10pm

re: #204 jwb7605

Buchanan does not deny it happened.
He typically justifies it, and makes it sound like it was something less than 'holocaust' proportion.

How do you justify the death of 6 million people? How do you justify a war that killed 54 million people? Is there any justification for taking these people?
Greed..Power..Politics..hate...racism..

223 wolfie  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:45:41pm

re: #172 buzzsawmonkey

I saw that! You're always a step ahead of me! :)

224 NY Nana  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:45:58pm

re: #144 yochanan

Shrillary and Hussein will do a good enough job on Israel and the Jews to wake up those who still have active brain cells. As Condi, President Bush and Hussein rush to give away Israeli land to the 'Palestinians'...../whoops. forgot that the Jews under 30, is it, do not give a damn about Israel and most of them are Demonrats.

225 yochanan  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:46:11pm

re: #214 Sharmuta

it is the same kind of revisionism i had a fight about on another thread a couple of days ago. Sniklegruber was the legal head of Germany, and the SS was a totally voluntary org that had a million members. And every member of the SS was guilty of war crimes. But very few of them ever were punished.

226 jwb7605  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:46:31pm

re: #222 HoosierHoops

How do you justify the death of 6 million people? How do you justify a war that killed 54 million people? Is there any justification for taking these people?
Greed..Power..Politics..hate...racism..

I don't, and wouldn't know where to start.
Buchanan is smarmy enough to try, though.
Calling Buchanan a 'conservative', to me, is an insult.

227 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:46:39pm

re: #220 wolfie

He is not denying it. He's blaming it on the English and therefore apologizing for Hitler. That's scarier and more pernicious, IMO, because historical illiterates are more likely to buy his line than an outright denial.

That's why I told Walter it's more sinister than outright denial.

228 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:47:31pm

re: #209 Thanos

I was just at PB"s site, no surprise that he's got Taki Theocrapulous in the sidebar.

Had to look that one up...

"Taki has been criticised for using ethnic slurs by the newspaper The Guardian,[10] and he has been investigated by Scotland Yard for some of his racial comments.[11] Due to Taki's characterization of himself as a "soi-disant antisemite",[12] coupled with strong criticism of the Israeli government and its supporters in the United States, The Spectator no longer permits him to write about Israel or Jewish affairs. "

Well, that's nice. The Spectator doesn't want his anti-semite politics to come out on their pages, so they say, go ahead and write, just keep it in the closet.

Boy, with all the VB stuff, and Geert and so on, these things are less and less of a surprise to me.

It's hail and hearty right here in our own country, and getting more "screed" every day.

If anyone wonders how it could have happened in the 1930's, get on board and take a looky.

229 Salamantis  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:47:49pm

Full disclosure: Joe Scarborough used to be my congressman. He voluntarily left Congress for his media gig. Many of us with that he had stayed there. His approval rating while in office never dipped below 70%.

230 yochanan  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:48:45pm

re: #216 Salamantis

glen beck one time brought my wife to tears. he used a gas chamber/cremitory in the graphics when he was talking about abortion. I wrote him a letter about it but i guess I wasn't important to him he never gave me the time of day.

as much as i can understand those who are against abortion it isn't the holocoust

231 rightymouse  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:48:46pm

re: #220 wolfie

He is not denying it. He's blaming it on the English and therefore apologizing for Hitler. That's scarier and more pernicious, IMO, because historical illiterates are more likely to buy his line than an outright denial.

That's what scares me too.

Do people read William Shirer's works?

He documented the nightmare.

Do people read what Oswald Mosley, Diana Mitford and her silly sister Unity were doing at that time to help Hitler?

It boggles the mind.

232 solomonpanting  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:48:58pm
“…for the six thousands years before Britain declared war, there was no Holocaust Hitler, and for two years after the war began, there was no Holocaust a Pat Buchanan.”
233 wolfie  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:49:16pm

re: #227 Sharmuta

Yup. Sinister is a perfect word for it.

234 3 wood  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:49:23pm

Market news:

Something very interesting in the market today.

Even though the DOW and S&P 500 dropped, if you looked at the numbers of stocks that advanced (1,751), the decliners (1,279) and unchanged, (91) you had 56% of the stocks in the NYSE go up.

This is not yet any thing to hang a hat on and say the market has turned a corner, but if you keep getting that kind of a ratio, even on down days, it's a good sign.

That is the kind of technical detail that the MSM will not publish (at least until January 21st) and in any event generally does not understand.

235 marwan's daughter  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:50:22pm

Man the harpoons at Counterknowledge.

236 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:50:50pm

re: #228 Walter L. Newton

Had to look that one up...

"Taki has been criticised for using ethnic slurs by the newspaper The Guardian,[10] and he has been investigated by Scotland Yard for some of his racial comments.[11] Due to Taki's characterization of himself as a "soi-disant antisemite",[12] coupled with strong criticism of the Israeli government and its supporters in the United States, The Spectator no longer permits him to write about Israel or Jewish affairs. "

Well, that's nice. The Spectator doesn't want his anti-semite politics to come out on their pages, so they say, go ahead and write, just keep it in the closet.

Boy, with all the VB stuff, and Geert and so on, these things are less and less of a surprise to me.

It's hail and hearty right here in our own country, and getting more "screed" every day.

If anyone wonders how it could have happened in the 1930's, get on board and take a looky.

And I have to add an addendum to my comment above. The current economic situation, where as not a mirror image of what was happening world wide in the 1930's, it's certainly has it own unique momentum to act as a good substitute.

And then you have those who want to beat up on EVERY Muslim, well folks, we got ourselves a perfect storm arising here again.

237 Ojoe  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:51:55pm

Yes, and for TWO WHOLE YEARS the United States let England face the nazis ALONE, because of fools like Buchanan.

238 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:52:27pm

re: #179 NY Nana

It bears repeating every day....or every second. Can't remember. ;)

What gets me laughing is that the Obama transition team has tapped John Kerry to do [drum roll] nothing! Even they acknowledge he is an idiot!

239 straitcircle  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:53:04pm

"before the war with Poland, Great Britain and France. He could have shipped them off to Africa or wherever, but it was cheaper to kill them. "

Actually Hitler sent Jews on ships to America and other countries to prove to the world that they did not want Jews. The US turned on such famous ship around and would not allow it to dock. He then tried to put them on trains and send them off to southern eastern European countries, and they told him no – we do not want them as well. Then it became cheaper to kill them. As far as genocide, this took place well after allied forces entered the war. Yes, Jews were put in concentration camps, but genocide was not the original plan. The invasion of Poland, which included Stalin as well, both sides killed Jews at random. Stalin also, it has been claimed too much success, genocide Ukrainian Jews. The Ottomans too, as well as the other major groups such as Armenians. Mussolini did not want to kill Jews until forced late in the war by German unity front. None of Mussolini’s pre-unity treatise on Fascism communicated Jews not being allowed in Italian society and government. This he could have shipped them off is an old and tired argument. The US had strict migration polices and did not want them when Hitler was sending them on ships to other countries. By denying this, people can say that America was not to blame. Unfortunately, that is not the case. The U.S. was well aware of what was going on internationally in regards with Jews no longer wanted in northern Europe.

240 jwb7605  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:53:06pm

re:

241 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:54:03pm

re: #204 jwb7605

That's as obscene as it is wrong. There was something, well, more evil about the Nazi deathcamps than even Stalin's USSR. Stalin killed a lot more people. Kolyma gold mine had something like three million dead over the course of Stalin's rule. Roughly one death for every ounce of gold the mine produced.

It's not even the cold, calculated nature of the death camps. Stalin deliberately manufactured famine in the Ukraine with the intent of killing millions of people. There is no doubt that Stalin's USSR was, as Reagan said, an evil empire.

But there's something uniquely horrific about the Nazi death camps. I can't really enumerate what or why that is, but it is still the truth.

242 Joan  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:54:14pm

re: #214 Sharmuta

He is revising history in an attempt to minimize the atrocities of nazi germany. It's a form of denial to minimize the Holocaust IMO. "Well- it wasn't that bad". Really- it's almost worse than denial in that it's more sinister.

Like the people drawn to Vlaams and excusing BNP, Buchanan wants to minimize the clear symptoms of rot as much as possible, in order to try to salvage their own atavistic, old-world political instincts. Expedience and fear drives such people to delude themselves. The think that they can have the ready-made political movement, the fervor, the exulting triumphalism for the great cause, and sanitize the stench by their benevolent influence. Very similar thinking to some of our American leftists. They believe the problem is not communism as an ideology, but the bad sorts of people who tried to implement it in the past. If "our sort" were the vanguard, it would be ultimate utopia rather than a gulag.

243 jwb7605  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:55:35pm

re: #240 jwb7605

Vanished in the ether!
I wanted to add Bush and Condi Rice to the current "voices of conservatism" rant.

re: #148 Egfrow

McCain, Huckabee, Buchanan, Powell... The New Voices of Conservatism. ;-/

244 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:55:47pm

re: #234 3 wood

Market news:

Something very interesting in the market today.

Even though the DOW and S&P 500 dropped, if you looked at the numbers of stocks that advanced (1,751), the decliners (1,279) and unchanged, (91) you had 56% of the stocks in the NYSE go up.

This is not yet any thing to hang a hat on and say the market has turned a corner, but if you keep getting that kind of a ratio, even on down days, it's a good sign.

That is the kind of technical detail that the MSM will not publish (at least until January 21st) and in any event generally does not understand.

There were some strong movers today - nuts and bolts companies like CF. The Keynesian approach is being interpreted as shoring up a base level of consumption, IMO, which will allow some companies to recover to their pre-October prices.

245 2by2  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:56:31pm

Hitler made very clear what his aim was regarding Jews, as early as in 1925.
'Mein Kampf'has all the references one needs to understand the nature of his "Kampf"
Shut up Buchanan,
you are not a Nazi sympathizer, you appear more and more like a Nazi.

246 Salamantis  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:57:03pm

re: #237 Ojoe

Yes, and for TWO WHOLE YEARS the United States let England face the nazis ALONE, because of fools like Buchanan.

One such fool was Charles Lindbergh and his isolationist America Firsters:

[Link: www.charleslindbergh.com...]

247 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:58:41pm

re: #237 Ojoe


It's a wonder (some might say a miracle) that we didn't lose the war because of that. It was only through terrible mistakes on the part of Hitler that England didn't fall before we finally got around to finally doing something about it.

248 NY Nana  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 6:59:23pm

re: #238 karmic_inquisitor

It appears that Hanoi John will be the head of the Foreign Relations Committee....another Hussein selection that will go down in history as a disaster of a choice.

249 rightymouse  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:00:57pm

re: #241 Iron Fist

That's as obscene as it is wrong. There was something, well, more evil about the Nazi deathcamps than even Stalin's USSR. Stalin killed a lot more people. Kolyma gold mine had something like three million dead over the course of Stalin's rule. Roughly one death for every ounce of gold the mine produced.

It's not even the cold, calculated nature of the death camps. Stalin deliberately manufactured famine in the Ukraine with the intent of killing millions of people. There is no doubt that Stalin's USSR was, as Reagan said, an evil empire.

But there's something uniquely horrific about the Nazi death camps. I can't really enumerate what or why that is, but it is still the truth.

Stalin killed more people than Hitler did. Mao killed more people than Hitler did. Hitler killed more people than Pol Pot did.

They were still killers.

250 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:02:00pm

re: #239 straitcircle

You're blaming America for the Holocaust?!

251 Ojoe  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:02:39pm

re: #247 Iron Fist

And the civilized world sits on its ass today and lets the insane have whole countries as sanctuaries where they can build any weapon, raise any army, hatch any plot.

We will pay.

Good night.

252 NY Nana  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:02:48pm

re: #239 straitcircle

This video breaks my heart..it is about the St. Louis.

253 jwb7605  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:03:01pm

re: #246 Salamantis

One such fool was Charles Lindbergh and his isolationist America Firsters:

[Link: www.charleslindbergh.com...]

I learned about Lindbergh's view when I was about 16.
What a letdown.

re: #237 Ojoe

Yes, and for TWO WHOLE YEARS the United States let England face the nazis ALONE, because of fools like Buchanan.


I have mixed emotions about that.
If the US had gotten involved "early", I often wonder if it wouldn't have turned out like Korea, Vietnam, or quite possibly what Iraq might become.

By the time we got involved, we (the USA) were pissed enough that political correctness and/or mercy were not part of the equation.

And yes, I do find it fortuitous and curious that we had all of our carriers out of Pearl Harbor on a training exercise.

254 wolfie  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:03:40pm

re: #237 Ojoe

I'd cut those fools some slack for not having all the cards face up in front of them. No one knew the extent of Hitler's evil then.

Buchanan has the privilege of hindsight, which makes him worse.

255 Victory Gin For All  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:03:49pm

re: #95 NYCHardhat

Ding ding ding ding ding ding!

However, I think his wife is a blond bombshell, so the jokes on us.

256 pingjockey  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:04:05pm

re: #248 NY Nana
I really didn't think it possible that we'd see an administration at the ouset that has the potential to be worse than Jimmah Carters. So far Obambi is batting about .975 with his choice of feckless fools.

257 3 wood  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:04:13pm

re: #244 karmic_inquisitor

There were some strong movers today - nuts and bolts companies like CF. The Keynesian approach is being interpreted as shoring up a base level of consumption, IMO, which will allow some companies to recover to their pre-October prices.

I think a year from now the issue will be inflation. Ultimately I think we will see double digit inflation.

Byt he way, the overnight futures are starting to edge into positive territory and the Nikkei and Hang Seng are positive as well.

258 gclaghorn  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:04:27pm

re: #239 straitcircle

Yeah, like it was all America's fault. Puh-lease.

259 pingjockey  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:07:10pm

re: #239 straitcircle
Ummm...NO! One ship is not 6 million people. Plus Hitler murdered gays, Gypsys, convicts, the mentally ill, anyone deemed unworthy. The camps were murdering people before the war started.

260 Victory Gin For All  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:07:27pm

re: #108 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

You're Geddy Lee?

It wouldn't suck to be him.

261 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:08:30pm

re: #243 jwb7605

Bush was never signed on with a good many Conservative principles, although he didn't run from being called a Conservative. He was a "compassionate" Conservative, as though he bought into the Leftist bullshit that since Conservatives would rather teach a man to fish rather than giving him a free mackrel they don't care about the poor.

On the contrary, by encouraging a business climate that in turn encourages businesses to expand and thus provide the jobs that enable to raise themselves out of poverty that is truly compassionate. The Leftist's policies effictively trap the poor into a permanent underclass with no hope of them or their families ever escaping poverty. LBJ's "war on poverty" did nothing but trap the poor in poverty and hoplessness. How compassionate is that?

262 rightymouse  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:08:48pm

re: #245 2by2

Hitler made very clear what his aim was regarding Jews, as early as in 1925.
'Mein Kampf'has all the references one needs to understand the nature of his "Kampf"
Shut up Buchanan,
you are not a Nazi sympathizer, you appear more and more like a Nazi.

I read Hitler's 'Mein Kampf' - the translated version of course. Still have it on one of my bookshelves. Hitler's ideology was very clear even then when he was in prison.

263 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:09:16pm

re: #258 gclaghorn

Yeah, like it was all America's fault. Puh-lease.

No. It was not America's fault, but there was certainly knowledge of what was happening before and more so after we entered the war.

Look up the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee and the Holocaust.

264 revobob  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:10:08pm

re: #79 Cutty Sark

" Pat " needs to flushed down the toilet , and this is nothing new for Buchannan . He's no better than the worst of Holocaust deniers . He has an anti-semitic, anti Israel agenda .
How he manages to remain 'respectable ' is a wonder . But looking at it objectively , HE HAS AN AUDIENCE .

But what do you expect from Tricky Dicks # 1 speechwriter ? Not to mention some of [ the crook ] Agnew's more infamous speeches .

LOL...."meandering nabobs of negativism " a Buchanninism if there ever was one .

Face it , he's a Conservative bigot and anti-semite , and there is absolutely no reason to handle him with kidd gloves .

Actually, I recall iot as being "nattering nabobs of negativity" but it was a long time ago...He was a crook, but really good at alliteration- not so much onomatopeia/

265 nyc redneck  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:10:11pm

re: #151 karmic_inquisitor

BTW - this Pat Buchanan thread reminds me ...

Have I mentioned recently that John Kerry is an utter and complete idiot?

he must feel so small inside and worthless.
it is pathetic how he so flagrantly tries to impress people.
he has no idea who he is. he has no real values.

266 Taqyia2Me  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:10:26pm

If we don't see through the WoT to the end, ALL the other wars we fought and won will have been for naught.
Buchanan can kiss my hairy white (blagojevich)!

267 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:10:35pm

re: #259 pingjockey

Ummm...NO! One ship is not 6 million people. Plus Hitler murdered gays, Gypsys, convicts, the mentally ill, anyone deemed unworthy. The camps were murdering people before the war started.

And before the camps were the euthanasia programs.

268 Victory Gin For All  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:10:54pm

re: #121 OldLineTexan

Infidel.

It's actually Gary Lee Weinrib. Now that sounds jewish :)

269 pingjockey  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:11:10pm

re: #263 Walter L. Newton
Yep. I figure the WH knew, probably the Joint Cheifs and certainly the OSS.

270 nyc redneck  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:11:10pm

re: #188 Iron Fist

Love already has. I met the current Girlfriend on LGF.

yay, how sweet.
;)

271 2by2  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:11:40pm

re: #262 rightymouse

I read Hitler's 'Mein Kampf' - the translated version of course. Still have it on one of my bookshelves. Hitler's ideology was very clear even then when he was in prison.

yep, and he made good on almost all of his promises regarding the Jews, just didn't succeed to wipe us out completely.
Am Israel Chai !

272 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:12:23pm

re: #269 pingjockey

Yep. I figure the WH knew, probably the Joint Cheifs and certainly the OSS.

So did the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee.

273 Loshos  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:12:35pm

Back in 1990, Buchanan wrote a New York Post column defending accused World War Two war criminal John Demjanjuk. An allegation against Demjanjuk was that he operated diesel engines used to exterminate death camp prisoners. In the column, Buchanan went out of his way to defend Demjanjuk by arguing diesel engines did not emit enough carbon monoxide to kill anyone. In his column, Buchanan supported his feeble conclusion that diesel engines could not be used in gas chambers based on a 1988 event where 97 children survived in a train tunnel while two diesel locomotives supposedly continued to operate. Now, if I understand correctly, Buchanan has gone out of his way to characterize Hitler as a benevolent landlord who only wanted to relocate his troublesome Jewish tenants but was forced to exterminate them because those nasty Brits went to war against Germany. Geez, when will Fox News and MSNBC rid themselves of this Nazi apologist?

274 NY Nana  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:12:46pm

re: #256 pingjockey

Tragically you are right, and it will only get worse.

My grandchildren will live in a very different world than we grew up in, and my 4 kids did. I do not even dare to guess how long it will take to repair the damage this disastrous election has caused, but McCain did nothing to help, damn it. This election, and what it has already done before Hussein takes an oath that he will ignore, is the very worst of the worst in my nearly 71 years on this planet.

And now? He is doing even more damage. Why? WTF is his problem?

I wish that Rudy had run a stronger campaign that did not stop, essentially, in FL.

275 pingjockey  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:12:47pm

re: #267 Walter L. Newton
Thank you, couldn't think of the term and didn't they start involuntary sterilization of 'undesirables'?

276 gclaghorn  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:13:14pm

re: #263 Walter L. Newton

No. It was not America's fault, but there was certainly knowledge of what was happening before and more so after we entered the war.

Look up the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee and the Holocaust.

True, there was knowledge and we did hesitate to get involved.

277 pingjockey  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:13:20pm

re: #272 Walter L. Newton
Not familiar with that group.

278 2by2  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:14:22pm

re: #273 Loshos

Maybe Pat can proof this to us by submitting himself to the Diesel test?

279 pingjockey  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:14:58pm

Nat Geo is running something on 'Ol Adolph' now.

280 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:15:18pm

re: #262 rightymouse

Without question. Hitler told the world what he was going to do, even told them how he was going to accomplish it, and still even Stalin was shocked when Hitler went and actually did it.

Kind of like the World is ignoring Iran persuing nuclear weapons while under the leadership of a nutcase that says that they are going to use nukes once the get them. I imagine that they'll be shocked (shocked!) when Iran goes and does exactly what they've promised that they will do.

281 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:15:22pm

re: #263 Walter L. Newton

No. It was not America's fault, but there was certainly knowledge of what was happening before and more so after we entered the war.

Look up the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee and the Holocaust.

There are many countries who should be ashamed they did not do more to help, but the blame begins and end with the nazis.

282 NY Nana  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:16:16pm

re: #245 2by2

Shut up Buchanan,
you are not a Nazi sympathizer, you appear more and more like a Nazi.

He must have a room full of uniforms and nazi memorabilia.

283 pingjockey  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:16:28pm

BBIAB, laundry calls!

284 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:16:35pm

re: #273 Loshos

Back in 1990, Buchanan wrote a New York Post column defending accused World War Two war criminal John Demjanjuk. An allegation against Demjanjuk was that he operated diesel engines used to exterminate death camp prisoners. In the column, Buchanan went out of his way to defend Demjanjuk by arguing diesel engines did not emit enough carbon monoxide to kill anyone. In his column, Buchanan supported his feeble conclusion that diesel engines could not be used in gas chambers based on a 1988 event where 97 children survived in a train tunnel while two diesel locomotives supposedly continued to operate. Now, if I understand correctly, Buchanan has gone out of his way to characterize Hitler as a benevolent landlord who only wanted to relocate his troublesome Jewish tenants but was forced to exterminate them because those nasty Brits went to war against Germany. Geez, when will Fox News and MSNBC rid themselves of this Nazi apologist?

All Buchanan would have had to do was to read a booklet, published in 1944 called Rok w Treblince (A Year in Treblinka) and he would have had all the info needed about killing prisoners with engine fumes.

I have the book right here in my hand.

285 nyc redneck  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:17:00pm

re: #196 OldLineTexan

Are you trying to seduce me, Mrs. Robinson?

lol,
no, tho i do think you're cute.
;p

286 Victory Gin For All  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:18:25pm

re: #203 rightymouse

And Gingrich.

I used to love Newt until he sat on that couch at the beach with Nancy one-too-many-face-lifts Pelosi and endorsed this fraud called Global Warming. Now I only like him a lot.

287 pingjockey  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:20:08pm

Going up to look at the astronomy pics! Pat Buchanan can go piss up a rope!

288 nyc redneck  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:21:23pm

re: #237 Ojoe

Yes, and for TWO WHOLE YEARS the United States let England face the nazis ALONE, because of fools like Buchanan.

that is a very good point.
and the brits did a valiant job in the face of that nazi blitz that came nightly for over a yr.

289 rightymouse  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:21:29pm

re: #271 2by2

yep, and he made good on almost all of his promises regarding the Jews, just didn't succeed to wipe us out completely.
Am Israel Chai !

And thank G-d that he didn't succeed!

290 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:21:36pm

re: #277 pingjockey

Not familiar with that group.

This Wiki entry does not explain this...

"The Joint helped 250,000 German Jews and 125,000 Austrian Jews emigrate between 1933 and 1939 and continued underground relief efforts throughout World War II to Yugoslavia and Poland. It assisted Jewish refugees wherever possible; one such effort was helping thousands of European Jews in Shanghai ghetto to survive the war. The organization moved its European headquarters from Paris to Lisbon and then back to Paris when it was liberated."

Yes, they help, by sending money to Europe, basically graft, to bribe all kinds of people in helping, but they refused to get involved in any sort of way that included support of resistance groups or arms.

And they knew what was happening. They had some of the best inside contacts in Eastern Europe than anyone had.

I'm not condemning them at all, just making my point that knowledge of what was going on was available in the States.

291 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:22:11pm

re: #267 Walter L. Newton

Including euthanasia for people with disorders like Down Syndrome. I think it is interesting that one of the things the Left hated Sarah Palin so much for was that she didn't abort her child when she learned the child had Downs.

Were I someone with Downs, I'd find it a rather frightening position to take. I'm rather skeptical that people in that demographic think it would have been better if they'd aborted.

292 jwb7605  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:23:02pm

re: #261 Iron Fist

Bush was never signed on with a good many Conservative principles, although he didn't run from being called a Conservative. He was a "compassionate" Conservative, as though he bought into the Leftist bullshit that since Conservatives would rather teach a man to fish rather than giving him a free mackrel they don't care about the poor.

On the contrary, by encouraging a business climate that in turn encourages businesses to expand and thus provide the jobs that enable to raise themselves out of poverty that is truly compassionate. The Leftist's policies effictively trap the poor into a permanent underclass with no hope of them or their families ever escaping poverty. LBJ's "war on poverty" did nothing but trap the poor in poverty and hoplessness. How compassionate is that?

I started out liking Bush.
Not so much lately.

The housing and banking crisis was recognized and predicted by several people a long time ago, I don't like the bailout, and the concept of funding the automakers is beyond the pale given the current union situation.

Instead of trying to "reach across the aisle" (capitulate), I think it would have been wiser to shine a big spotlight on the problems. I especially believe that if Bush is serious about not worrying about being popular, but doing the right thing.

His failure (or the administration's failure) to act before things got to 'crisis mode' will only help trap a lot of people in the 'poor' category for quite a while. I have no faith that Obama will help the situation at all.

293 2by2  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:23:53pm

re: #282 NY Nana

Hi Nana,
hope you're ok,
what makes me so mad about Buchanan is that he is probing into the level of resistance he will get with these outrageous statements, just like his idol AH, who wasn't brave enough to take on the whole world just at once, he tested the level of resistance of the free world, by slowly becoming more and more daring with his quest for the "Volk ohne Raum", first the Ruhr, than Alsace Lorraine, Austria, Czechoslovakia and Poland.
That's how they operate, and it has certain similarities with our current foe the ROP, who are doing just the same.

294 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:26:38pm

re: #286 Victory Gin For All

I've never really liked Newt. There's something about him that just rubs me the wrong way. I was glad when he didn't throw his hat into the Presidential ring this cycle.

295 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:28:12pm

re: #291 Iron Fist

Including euthanasia for people with disorders like Down Syndrome. I think it is interesting that one of the things the Left hated Sarah Palin so much for was that she didn't abort her child when she learned the child had Downs.

Were I someone with Downs, I'd find it a rather frightening position to take. I'm rather skeptical that people in that demographic think it would have been better if they'd aborted.

And it started as a voluntary program. Bring your sick family member in and the doc will write an order to have them killed.

Voluntary... equals first step.

296 rightymouse  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:28:15pm

re: #263 Walter L. Newton

No. It was not America's fault, but there was certainly knowledge of what was happening before and more so after we entered the war.

Look up the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee and the Holocaust.

Roosevelt really, really did not want to be involved in what he perceived as a European 'problem'.

The Isolationists/Nazi sympathizers at the time were banging on his head and public mood as well, including the likes of Joseph Kennedy Sr. and Lindbergh.

When Japan attacked Pearl Harbor, all bets were off.

I think Churchill was brilliant then in getting Roosevelt off his duff.

297 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:28:55pm

Since we're discussing the nazis shipping Jews off to other countries, it should be noted this is the sort of thing advocated by certain neo-fascists we've all come to know and "love". And like the past, it's very likely that if we see ships of the undesired leaving europe again, we'll see similar rejections of those on board by the countries they're shipped to.

298 rightymouse  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:29:20pm

re: #286 Victory Gin For All

I used to love Newt until he sat on that couch at the beach with Nancy one-too-many-face-lifts Pelosi and endorsed this fraud called Global Warming. Now I only like him a lot.

I don't like him at all now.

299 jwb7605  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:30:26pm

re: #297 Sharmuta

Since we're discussing the nazis shipping Jews off to other countries, it should be noted this is the sort of thing advocated by certain neo-fascists we've all come to know and "love". And like the past, it's very likely that if we see ships of the undesired leaving europe again, we'll see similar rejections of those on board by the countries they're shipped to.

Just to cheer you up, we'll see similar public apathy about it, too.

300 NY Nana  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:31:46pm

re: #288 nyc redneck

FDR was an isolationist until Pearl Harbor gave him no choice. American men went to Canada to enlist in the British military...and he was no friend of the Jews.

301 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:31:56pm

re: #297 Sharmuta

Since we're discussing the nazis shipping Jews off to other countries, it should be noted this is the sort of thing advocated by certain neo-fascists we've all come to know and "love". And like the past, it's very likely that if we see ships of the undesired leaving europe again, we'll see similar rejections of those on board by the countries they're shipped to.

I mentioned it above, there is a hell of a lot of similarity now to what was happening in the 1930's, including the economic stuff. It's building up to be a perfect storm.

302 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:32:38pm

re: #300 NY Nana

FDR was an isolationist until Pearl Harbor gave him no choice. American men went to Canada to enlist in the British military...and he was no friend of the Jews.

Not in any way, shape or form.

303 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:32:55pm

re: #301 Walter L. Newton

I mentioned it above, there is a hell of a lot of similarity now to what was happening in the 1930's, including the economic stuff. It's building up to be a perfect storm.

And I dinged you up for it. The similarities are striking. And troubling.

304 legalpad  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:33:06pm

re: #291 Iron Fist

Including euthanasia for people with disorders like Down Syndrome. I think it is interesting that one of the things the Left hated Sarah Palin so much for was that she didn't abort her child when she learned the child had Downs.

Were I someone with Downs, I'd find it a rather frightening position to take. I'm rather skeptical that people in that demographic think it would have been better if they'd aborted.

I think it was noted once that many advancements in science have come from trying to help people with various disabilities. It would seem that the eugenics types think we should just give up.

305 gclaghorn  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:33:31pm

re: #296 rightymouse

I think Churchill was brilliant. Period.then in getting Roosevelt off his duff.

Fixed

306 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:33:53pm

re: #300 NY Nana

FDR was an isolationist until Pearl Harbor gave him no choice. American men went to Canada to enlist in the British military...and he was no friend of the Jews.

The original three stooges...

[Link: www.aref.de...]

307 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:34:25pm

re: #292 jwb7605


Bush was certainly better than the alternatives that the Democrat Party gave us. Can you imagine the Gorecle as President in the aftermath of 9-11? And think of what would have happened if Kerry had won in 2004. Losing in Iraq would have been a hell of a price to pay because we felt he wasn't Conservative enough, and decided to punish the GOP for that.

All in all, Bush's positives outweigh his negatives. As much as anything, Bush is where he is in terms of approval ratings because he doesn't see any point in reminding everyone how wonderful he is every five minutes.

I doubt that Obama will overlook that. Although if he did happen to forget to praise Himself, the lapdog media would be there to do it for him.

308 revobob  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:38:04pm

re: #241 Iron Fist
Fist, I know what you mean. I think that the difference between at least Stalin and Hilter was that Stalin was basically callously indifferent to the suffering and death he inflicted on Soviets who were NOT of his ethnicity. Hitler took an active role in a program (pogrom?) designed for the sole active purpose of eliminating Jewry from Europe. I think active evil always is more frightening than 'passive' evil because it is so hard for most of us to imagine investing the effort in hating that much.
I think it is also worth noting that America in the 30s and 40s was a very different place than what we live in now. As one example recognizable local accents are much less obvious now than then because of the homogenizing effect of mass audio media. Societies all over the world were more localized and 'strangers' were more likely to be fair game for ridicule or injury.

309 Straitcircle  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:38:32pm

re: #259 pingjockey

Ummm...NO! One ship is not 6 million people. Plus Hitler murdered gays, Gypsys, convicts, the mentally ill, anyone deemed unworthy. The camps were murdering people before the war started.


I never implied it was six million people on a boat? Can six million people fit on any boat in history? Or are you calling me stupid because it fits your non ability to analyze what I had wrote. Surely it was communicated as a symbol, as understood by the USA. To try to say that USA had no idea is to deny historical facts. Like other people were pointing out, Hitler had written his book many years before. And no genocide was not started before the war; Murders, yeah, but not genocide – and, another thing people never take issue with -- as to the populous that chanted and paraded on their own free will about their own identity and militaristic pursuits in Germany. Leaders never lead; they are supported by a population. Bush did not get into power because no one supported his ideology. Neither did Obama’s win. Neither did Mussolini nor Hitler. They were supported by their populous.

Gays, mentally Ill, and other things ( he also advocated and past animal right's laws, considered the forefather of modem animal rights organizations today) was not solely people other than blond and blued eyed. Hitler, during the final year of the war, had 1:4 brown colored people fighting on his side (namely the opportunist Muslims, from North Africa and near Middle East, in the eastern theater). Try not to imply only the white blue eyed and hair ideology was some sort of monolithic program. Hitler had brownish hair and some say he was born of the Jews. His birth name is actually recorded in a local newspaper of that of Hittler. He changed the spelling in his late teens to avoid WWI conscription. Many Germans did not have blue eyes or always blond hair. The Nordic or Aryan supremacy argument was not what made Germany build a military and attack other states. That is mythmaking. It was a contingent coincided ideology to rationalize and unify a wide-diverse body of people to take by imperialism what most of the European nations, including England had already done – that is imperialism by killing other foreign populations and subjecting them to servitude.

Murdering and genocide are two different things. The British Murdered many different Indian groups to get control of land in South Asia – that is actually what Germany wanted to do was to take land and make money. Genocide was a reaction later in the war to frustration of attempts to secure Germanic equal prosperity with the intending industrialized imperialist powers. Getting rid of the Jews was soley not because of blue eyes and blond hair ( that is a myth); but because they like all other Europeans, Germans wanted to make money too. After WWI, the treaties were so harshly enforced against Germany that photographs did show many Germans dying of malnutrition. They rationalized it was due to the Jews, but in reality it was England's, and France's and to some extent the U.S.A's fault.

310 jwb7605  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:39:11pm

re: #307 Iron Fist

Bush was certainly better than the alternatives that the Democrat Party gave us. Can you imagine the Gorecle as President in the aftermath of 9-11? And think of what would have happened if Kerry had won in 2004. Losing in Iraq would have been a hell of a price to pay because we felt he wasn't Conservative enough, and decided to punish the GOP for that.

All in all, Bush's positives outweigh his negatives. As much as anything, Bush is where he is in terms of approval ratings because he doesn't see any point in reminding everyone how wonderful he is every five minutes.

I doubt that Obama will overlook that. Although if he did happen to forget to praise Himself, the lapdog media would be there to do it for him.

I don't disagree with any of that.
I also think McCain would have been farslightly better than Obama.

I'm just tired of picking which option sucks the least.

In a perverse way, I almost wish Gore would have pulled a Norm Coleman and subsequently taken the hit for 9/11. Makes me wonder what national and press attitudes might be like 8 years later.

311 Zimriel  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:39:28pm

Just a few days after my dad was born his parents had to evacuate him to Wales. Because of the indiscriminate bombing of English civilians. By Hitler's luftwaffe.

Meanwhile over in Palestine, the Mufti was whipping up his boys to exterminate my grandma and her entire race. Also inspired by Hitler.

That I was born is no thanks to Pat Buchanan, who needs to FOAD already.

312 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:40:17pm

re: #303 Sharmuta

And I dinged you up for it. The similarities are striking. And troubling.

Thanks. Most here know. I've been all over Poland, spent weeks there in 2004 researching my Holocaust play. When you go there, to ground zero of the Holocaust, you learn to start your observing from their perspective.

And you come back, and you start your search over here, trying to understand using the mind of a European of that time, from that point of view.

A lot of "new" things start to make themselves known to you, things that have always been there, but has not become part of the popular meme of the Holocaust.

It those little details, those "hidden" facts and features, that contain the roots of what you are looking for.

That was the advice I got from a Polish LGF commenter named "Marcin." And he set up all my contacts in Poland, the archives I went to, the university and so on.

In part, it was because of Charles and LGF that the play got written.

313 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:40:55pm

re: #297 Sharmuta


One thing that never gets mentioned in the mainstream media is the fact that no Arab or Islamic country has offered to let the Palestinian "refugees" come and settle in their wonderful Islamic paradises. In fact, it has kind of been the opposite with Islamic countries dumping their undesirables in Gaza and the West Bank.

314 rightymouse  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:42:32pm

re: #280 Iron Fist

Without question. Hitler told the world what he was going to do, even told them how he was going to accomplish it, and still even Stalin was shocked when Hitler went and actually did it.

Kind of like the World is ignoring Iran persuing nuclear weapons while under the leadership of a nutcase that says that they are going to use nukes once the get them. I imagine that they'll be shocked (shocked!) when Iran goes and does exactly what they've promised that they will do.

Stalin was planning to open a can of whoop-ass on the Soviet Jews before he died. It was part of his 'scapegoat' commie/totalitarian strategy because things sucked so bad due to his own failed policies. He figured that if Hitler could do that, he could too.

Read Edvard Radzinksy's book 'Stalin'.

We cannot afford to ignore an Iran with nukes. That's for sure.

315 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:44:28pm

re: #297 Sharmuta

Since we're discussing the nazis shipping Jews off to other countries, it should be noted this is the sort of thing advocated by certain neo-fascists we've all come to know and "love". And like the past, it's very likely that if we see ships of the undesired leaving europe again, we'll see similar rejections of those on board by the countries they're shipped to.

Give me some references? What are they proposing, and who 'is' they?

316 Egfrow  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:44:52pm

Everything is coming together just like 1930. All we need now is some kind of Civilian Special Service that has as much power and funding as the Military and we are good to go. I wonder if anything like this has been considered yet? ;-/

317 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:45:01pm

re: #309 Straitcircle

So now you're blaming capitalism?!

Never mind there was deep ethnic nationalism at work.

318 rightymouse  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:45:44pm

re: #305 gclaghorn

Fixed

I truly believe that if Churchill had not been there on the world stage at the time, history would not have turned out the same way.

319 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:47:34pm
320 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:48:18pm

re: #317 Sharmuta

So now you're blaming capitalism?! Never mind there was deep ethnic nationalism at work.

Almost 2000 years of Christian/Ethnic nationalism at work. Anti-semitism just didn't appear out of some witches caldron in Germany in the 20's. The whole continent was racked with anti-semitism for centuries, mainly fostered by Christians.

321 2by2  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:49:05pm

re: #318 rightymouse

I truly believe that if Churchill had not been there on the world stage at the time, history would not have turned out the same way.

yes, I believe that too. Churchill was the one who grasped the threat at once, and he was the one to push FDR to enter the US into the war.
It was not your ordinary situation, it needed extraordinaire people like Churchill to make the difference. He faded quickly after the war, but he was crucial to the defeat of Nazi Germany.

322 revobob  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:49:47pm

re: #318 rightymouse

I truly believe that if Churchill had not been there on the world stage at the time, history would not have turned out the same way.

Uhhhh... If Churchill had not been there, history would already have been different..

323 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:49:52pm
324 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:51:10pm

re: #315 SanFranciscoZionist

I would use the LGF Tag Storm and read up on euro-fascism if you'd like to learn more. I think it's best to point people in that direction and allow you and others to reach your own conclusion(s).

325 onlinegangsta  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:51:12pm

[Link: www.nj.com...]

Ummm, you name your 1 kid "Adolf Hitler" and the other is named "Aryan Nations"?

Nahhh, there's not a racist bone in your body sir.

/ (like i need to put this here).

326 2by2  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:52:11pm

re 319
you must remember Jews were only allowed citizenship in ALL OF EUROPE by Napoleon....not before that
....and it was revoked by many of the German principalities, not to speak of Poland or Russia after Napoleon was defeated.
Uhm, and yes Jews had been in the heart of Europe for almost 2000 years when Hitler struck.

327 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:52:20pm
328 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:54:04pm
329 onlinegangsta  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:54:27pm

Ploome -

That's actually Wilford Brimley.
Not that I'm much better looking but at least I don't have glowing eyes.

Yet. :)

330 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:54:47pm

re: #319 ploome hineni

My apologies if it seemed as though I was saying Jews are undesirable. I meant it in the respect of european thought at that time, not my feelings. I also doubt much has changed in europe. I think the anti-Semitism never went away.

331 rightymouse  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:55:38pm

re: #321 2by2

yes, I believe that too. Churchill was the one who grasped the threat at once, and he was the one to push FDR to enter the US into the war.
It was not your ordinary situation, it needed extraordinaire people like Churchill to make the difference. He faded quickly after the war, but he was crucial to the defeat of Nazi Germany.

He also despised Stalin and saw him for what he was while Roosevelt called him "Uncle Joe" and sucked up.

But Churchill understood the times and they were dangerous for his country. Roosevelt always came across in his dealings as more cavalier/jaunty regarding America.

Can you tell I don't care for Roosevelt? lol!

/and don't get me started on Eleanor.

332 SaneinMN  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:55:44pm

re: #292 jwb7605

To be fair, the President did recognize the crisis at Fannie and Freddie as far back as 2003. The Administration drafted legislation in attempt to reign these fools in, and it went nowhere...even when "Republicans" controlled both house's of Congress. Barney Frank actually accused the President of "engaging in class warfare", and some other Donk labeled the legislation "racist". The President's current "spending spree" is a disgrace, but it could have been averted if congress would have done their job.

333 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:56:41pm
334 Zimriel  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:56:45pm

re: #309 Straitcircle

Like other people were pointing out, Hitler had written his book many years before. And no genocide was not started before the war; Murders, yeah, but not genocide ...

Murdering and genocide are two different things. The British Murdered many different Indian groups to get control of land in South Asia – that is actually what Germany wanted to do was to take land and make money. Genocide was a reaction later in the war to frustration of attempts to secure Germanic equal prosperity with the intending industrialized imperialist powers. Getting rid of the Jews was soley not because of blue eyes and blond hair ( that is a myth); but because they like all other Europeans, Germans wanted to make money too...

I've removed your handwaving distractions, like the comment about ordinary Germans (which doesn't help your case) and Versailles (irrelevant).

Hitler made plain in his books that he hated Jews (and blacks, and Slavs). The initial murders were designed to destroy Ashkenazi civilisation in his corner of Europe, after which the survivors would flee "somewhere". Most of us here who aren't obtuse call this locally genocidal ("ethnic cleansing"), on the level of the Assyrians did in Israel.

Moreover Hitler's actions and his writings should have made clear even by 1938 that Hitler had a globally genocidal intent. Going back to 700 BC, sure there were Jews left in Jerusalem, but it wasn't for lack of trying by Shalmanezer and his boys - and those clowns wanted to conquer the world: they went on to invade Egypt and Persia.

Hitler's Germany, like Assyria, was a scourge of mankind. I'm not sure why you feel like defending the Nazis on LGF, of all places. You need a better hobby.

335 rightymouse  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:56:49pm

re: #322 revobob

Uhhhh... If Churchill had not been there, history would already have been different..

Was there something you said that was different than what I said? :)

336 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:57:05pm

re: #310 jwb7605

I think Gore would have completely fucked up after 9-11. Nobody is really ready for that kind of challenges presented by something like that, but Gore would have been a disaster. He wouldn't have know whether to shit or go blind, and he's not the kind of person that surrounds himself with people that would be able to pull it together.

I've met Gore, and I was underwhelmed with him. He's not the sharpest knife in the drawer. He wasn't the flaming asshole he became in his persuit of Presidential power. The kind of asshole he wouod have become by the time 9-11 rolled around.

The Press might would have helped carry water for him, but it is unlikely that they would have done for him what they are now doing for Obama.

I agree that it sucks having to vote for the cabndidate we thinks would be the least bad, but that is where we are. There's no one on the Democrat side of the aisle that inspires my confidence, but the Republicans aren't much better. Palin is the best that they have to offer right now, but I can't think of anyone that I'd want as her VP. Our bench isn't real deep.

I feel like Theoden in the Lord of the Rings. "How did it come to this?" Why have both Parties failed the Country so badly?

337 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:57:31pm

re: #323 ploome hineni

what?

Ploome. I was waxing a bit poetic. I started writing "A Field of Buttercups" in 2003, here in the States. I was working from biographical material, historical etc. I had about 25 pages of the script completed by Sept. 2003, but, reading it over, I realized I only had facts and figures on the page, not feeling.

So, I booked a trip to Poland. Learn about what I was writing about from people who new some of my players (in the script), had insight about the times and trouble, stuff like that.

All I was trying to say was I got to understand some things in a way that I would probably not have if I simply sat at home and tried to write the story.

See...

[Link: home.comcast.net...]

This script had a public reading on Nov 12th, 2008, selected and sponsored by the Colorado Theatre Guild.

338 onlinegangsta  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:57:36pm

Ploome -

He's a actor...
See here - [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

339 NY Nana  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 7:58:49pm

re: #302 Walter L. Newton

Not in any way, shape or form.

The saddest part (I was born in '38) is that he was looked upon as the father of the country during the war...it was quite a while afterwards that we saw the truth. No TV, etc., in those days, and he had polio, but not everyone realized he was in a wheel chair...very different world.

Eleanor Roosevelt was a patrician, and she later was a true friend to the Jews. I admire her still.

This article is excellent, IMHO....

340 jwb7605  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:00:06pm

re: #332 SaneinMN

To be fair, the President did recognize the crisis at Fannie and Freddie as far back as 2003. The Administration drafted legislation in attempt to reign these fools in, and it went nowhere...even when "Republicans" controlled both house's of Congress. Barney Frank actually accused the President of "engaging in class warfare", and some other Donk labeled the legislation "racist". The President's current "spending spree" is a disgrace, but it could have been averted if congress would have done their job.

Heckuva job pursuing the issue further, too.
That basically sums up my beef with him.

341 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:01:05pm
342 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:01:32pm

re: #320 Walter L. Newton

Almost 2000 years of Christian/Ethnic nationalism at work. Anti-semitism just didn't appear out of some witches caldron in Germany in the 20's. The whole continent was racked with anti-semitism for centuries, mainly fostered by Christians.

Actually, it was fostered by a heresy that had gone mainstream within Christianity: Replacement Theology. (Google it!)

343 rightymouse  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:01:43pm

Bed time for moi!

344 NY Nana  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:02:18pm

re: #312 Walter L. Newton

Thank you so much for what you have done.

345 2by2  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:02:50pm

re: #328 ploome hineni

and she tries to compare what happened to the Jews with what she claims some wackjobs are suggesting for muslims

cattle cars and 'showers'?

Jews tried for at least 500 years in what later would become Germany to assimilate into the general population, in a sometimes stupid and sometimes heartbreaking way (look at Heinrich Heine's story of conversion).
A good source to read up on is Amos Elon : The pity of it all. (about German Jewry between 1750 and 1933)
To speak of a Jewish attempt to take over Europe from 325 to 1933 is completely out of whack, Jews were subjugated, dominated, routinely murdered by the hundreds and squeezed for whatever assets they had.
Quite different from the comfy state financed way the ROP'ers live in PC Europe today .

346 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:03:20pm

re: #339 NY Nana

The saddest part (I was born in '38) is that he was looked upon as the father of the country during the war...it was quite a while afterwards that we saw the truth. No TV, etc., in those days, and he had polio, but not everyone realized he was in a wheel chair...very different world.

Eleanor Roosevelt was a patrician, and she later was a true friend to the Jews. I admire her still.

This article is excellent, IMHO....

I read it, very nice summary. I also bookmarked it. Thanks.

I have always had an open invitation to any Lizard who wants a copy of any of my scripts, click on my name, click on the play and see the email instructions.

347 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:03:37pm

re: #313 Iron Fist

One thing that never gets mentioned in the mainstream media is the fact that no Arab or Islamic country has offered to let the Palestinian "refugees" come and settle in their wonderful Islamic paradises. In fact, it has kind of been the opposite with Islamic countries dumping their undesirables in Gaza and the West Bank.

Well- it might start raising uncomfortable questions for the pali-apologists. They might have to look into the source and if that's not uncomfortable for their pre-existing world view, what is?

348 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:04:39pm
349 jwb7605  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:05:03pm

re: #338 onlinegangsta

Ploome -

He's a actor...
See here - [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

My wife is a Days Our Lives addict.
Every time I see 'Marlena', I also see Wilford Brimley.
I'm amazed he didn't know Stephano had her kidnapped.

350 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:05:05pm

re: #344 NY Nana

Thank you so much for what you have done.

You welcome.

351 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:05:32pm

re: #322 revobob


I don't think that there is any question that Churchill was pivotal. A lesser leader would have tried to make a seperate peace with Nazi Germany after the Miracle at Dunkirk. And everything that I've studied has made it clear that Hitler would been receptive to such an offer.

That would have freed up important parts of the Wermacht to fight on the Eastern Front when the inevitable Nazi invasion of the USSR happened.

It was close, real close. Those troops could very well have made the difference between success and failure.

352 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:06:33pm

re: #342 NomadOfNorad

Actually, it was fostered by a heresy that had gone mainstream within Christianity: Replacement Theology. (Google it!)

I know it very well. Paul basically spoke against this, explaining that the Gentile had been "grafted into" the community of the Jews, but it didn't take long for that to go south, did it?

353 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:06:55pm

re: #337 Walter L. Newton

Hey, man, congrats.

354 J.S.  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:07:30pm

There's an interesting chapter in the text, "Explaining Hitler" by Ron Rosenbaum (the chapter is "To the Gestapo Cottage".."in which the philospher Berel Lang closes in on the locus of Hitler's evil in his identity as an artist." Rosenbaum notes that Lang believed that the lengthy dehumanization process (the keeping inmates in concentration camps prior to their extermination/murder) was done with "knowingness, deliberation, consciousness of the process of wrongdoing..." in other words (as Rosenbaum suggests) it was doing evil because one knows it to be evil...(and some of this is further evidenced by the "inventiveness of nazi lies about the genocide" -- some of the other conclusions made by Berl Lang are too disturbing to discuss...those interested, read the chapter.) Anyway, one other thing -- what this Pat Bastard states is nothing new at all -- it's what nazis have been alleging ever since WWII ended...(the only thing "new" here is that the nazis lies are going mainstream -- thanks to the MSM.)

355 Thanos  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:07:31pm

re: #309 Straitcircle

WTF? We are supposed to appreciate Hitler because he made use of Islamist murderers? We are supposed to like him because he formed an animal society?

He also painted roses, but he was still one of the most genocidal figures in all of history, he knew what he was doing in 39 as the article states if you would read it.
His second book also points this out -- as I suspect you know already as you are another revisionist and apologist like Pat.

356 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:08:22pm

re: #355 Thanos

WTF? We are supposed to appreciate Hitler because he made use of Islamist murderers? We are supposed to like him because he formed an animal society?

He also painted roses, but he was still one of the most genocidal figures in all of history, he knew what he was doing in 39 as the article states if you would read it.
His second book also points this out -- as I suspect you know already as you are another revisionist and apologist like Pat.

But- the nazis just wanted to make money!

357 SaneinMN  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:08:26pm

re: #340 jwb7605

How do you pursue it when your own party refuses to make the case? Same thing with Social Security reform. How much political capital did the President spend on that issue, going town to town, giving speeches, etc. And where was the calvary? NTBS, thats where. And, how can we forget the "Gang of 14", one of McCain's many gifts to the President. Look, I'm not defending every decision President Bush made. Signing that campaign finance reform bill, expanding Medicare, ineptness on the border, etc...all disgusting. But you cannot overlook the role congress, and especially congressional Republicans, played during the last 8 years.

358 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:10:55pm

re: #353 Iron Fist

Hey, man, congrats.

Thank you.

359 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:12:14pm

re: #352 Walter L. Newton

I know it very well. Paul basically spoke against this, explaining that the Gentile had been "grafted into" the community of the Jews, but it didn't take long for that to go south, did it?

This Replacement Theology heresy came from St Augustine, who apparently had been listening to some gnostics at the time... :-|

360 2by2  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:12:27pm

re: #337 Walter L. Newton

I don't know your play, and I give it the benefit of the doubt, I'm sure you come with the right motivation.
I though, don't believe in making a work of art about events one did not experience.
Nothing in my imagination compares to what the generation of my parent and grandparents went through. It doesn't do justice to research, I am a believer in authenticity, if you read 'Night', and I'm sure you did, you know what I'm talking about.
All what's left for us to do is to be historically correct and keep the memory alive.

361 NY Nana  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:13:20pm

re: #325 onlinegangsta

I just saw the family on TV...the nazi tattoos were so vile on the father that they were blurred by the cameraman...Child Protection in NJ should take the kids away..sickening. Child abuse.

And we shop at a Shoprite near us, and I am so proud of them for refusing to make the cake..a Walmart in PA did make it.

362 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:16:12pm

re: #341 ploome hineni

We (America) had better learn from their mistakes before it is too late for us. To have started out as basically plagerism from Jewish and Christian religious traditions, Islam is fairly unique among the Religions of the world. There's something of the Shinto/Japanese warrior ethic in the Religion of Peace, but even the Kamakazi pilots weren't trying to blow up little girls so that they could pick up their 72 raisens in the afterlife.

The Death worship that forms the core of Islam for the world's billion or so Mohammedans is like nothing else I've ever ran across.

363 NomadOfNorad  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:17:04pm

Hmmmm.... speaking of gnosticism... does this symbol look familiar? :-|

364 CanuckInMI  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:17:44pm

This guy needs to go away. I can't stand the idea that he is on my side of the aisle. What a moron.

365 Zimriel  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:18:31pm

re: #354 J.S.

There's an interesting chapter in the text, "Explaining Hitler" by Ron Rosenbaum (the chapter is "To the Gestapo Cottage".."in which the philospher Berel Lang closes in on the locus of Hitler's evil in his identity as an artist." Rosenbaum notes that Lang believed that the lengthy dehumanization process (the keeping inmates in concentration camps prior to their extermination/murder) was done with "knowingness, deliberation, consciousness of the process of wrongdoing..." in other words (as Rosenbaum suggests) it was doing evil because one knows it to be evil...(and some of this is further evidenced by the "inventiveness of nazi lies about the genocide" -- some of the other conclusions made by Berl Lang are too disturbing to discuss...those interested, read the chapter.) Anyway, one other thing -- what this Pat Bastard states is nothing new at all -- it's what nazis have been alleging ever since WWII ended...(the only thing "new" here is that the nazis lies are going mainstream -- thanks to the MSM.)

Sadism is personal: "give me just five minutes with this child molester". Evil done for political ends wouldn't be sadistic: "we need to bomb Hiroshima to break the will of the Japanese and to scare the Soviets".

Does Lang explain how the two get comingled? For some reason I'm thinking of the Operative in Serenity; he believes he's a monster who is serving a greater good, and that he must do monstrous acts so that his masters won't have to.

366 jwb7605  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:19:45pm

re: #357 SaneinMN

How do you pursue it when your own party refuses to make the case? Same thing with Social Security reform. How much political capital did the President spend on that issue, going town to town, giving speeches, etc. And where was the calvary? NTBS, thats where. And, how can we forget the "Gang of 14", one of McCain's many gifts to the President. Look, I'm not defending every decision President Bush made. Signing that campaign finance reform bill, expanding Medicare, ineptness on the border, etc...all disgusting. But you cannot overlook the role congress, and especially congressional Republicans, played during the last 8 years.

Good points.
Absolutely true.

What's your take on his latest interview where he said he regrets that he had to compromise his principles to save the economy?

367 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:20:25pm

*waiting for "straightcircle" to blame Darwin next*

368 NY Nana  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:20:57pm

re: #317 Sharmuta

/Straitjacketcircle has left the buiding.

Boy, did I ever mis-judge it!

369 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:20:58pm

re: #360 2by2

I don't know your play, and I give it the benefit of the doubt, I'm sure you come with the right motivation.
I though, don't believe in making a work of art about events one did not experience.
Nothing in my imagination compares to what the generation of my parent and grandparents went through. It doesn't do justice to research, I am a believer in authenticity, if you read 'Night', and I'm sure you did, you know what I'm talking about.
All what's left for us to do is to be historically correct and keep the memory alive.

Some of the best memories of the Holocaust have been kept alive by plays, books, movies, songs, pictures, paintings... you are kidding, right?

What about Yad Yashem? I guess that should not exist. Let's shut it down, take out all the artwork and memories and pictures and...

By the way, my play is about Janusz Korczak. His orphanage ended up behind the walls of the Warsaw ghetto during the invasion of Poland.

The is a whole wing dedicated to him at Yad Yashem, let's get rid of that too.

370 Ojoe  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:21:21pm

re: #362 Iron Fist

The Death worship that forms the core of Islam for the world's billion or so Mohammedans is like nothing else I've ever ran across.

I have read a lot of history. Their death worship is the worst thing I have seen, worse than the Aztecs.

What course will it run? There must be a totally miraculous change of heart in the islamic world, or it will eventually lie in ashes. They have been committing hugely addictive sins, and every time they do, they are goaded on by the powers of darkness to top what they have just done.
It seems to me that this will end very badly.

371 Thanos  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:22:02pm

re: #362 Iron Fist

There are only three groups in history I can think of that were akin to Islamonazis only in their worship of death in battle.

The Samurai, the Ghost Dancers, and the Odinists. The distinction you made is what makes the Islamists more evil than any of the above.

372 Cutty Sark  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:23:03pm

# 84 , in response to your statement about Nixon ......WHAT ?


Nixon was detached from reality as far back as "Checkers " , and in his most inglorious and ignominious end ......Buchannan wrote his speeches ....before , after and while the ship was sinking .

373 Zimriel  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:24:08pm

re: #367 Sharmuta

*waiting for "straightcircle" to blame Darwin next*

Pat and 'straightcircle' - Dumbbell and the Little Dumbbell

374 USBeast  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:26:51pm

Buchanan is a fossilized remnant of a group of Americans who really wanted to believe that Hitler was the hero who would save Europe from Communism. They (along with Churchill and Marshal Foch) recognized that the Treaty of Versailles was a recipe for disaster and knew that a strong and vibrant Germany was essential to keeping Soviet Russia at bay.

What Buchanan and his ilk refuse to acknowledge is that Hitler spelled out his program in "Mein Kampf". Buchanan, in trying to sell his fallacious argument, is counting on the fact that very few people have read Hitler's book.

I have. It is a hard slog, almost as hard as the Qur'an.

375 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:28:14pm

re: #364 CanuckInMI


Take comfort that he is no longer on our side. He left our side long ago. It's kinda like finding out an old girlfriend has sold her soul for a glass dick, and is turning tricks for crack money. The love is long gone, but in the echo of it there's still a twinge of pain that someone with a promising life, someone you used to care about, has wadded their life up and flushed it down the shitter.

And in that twinge there is guilt. Not guilt from the feeling that "if only she'd stayed wirth me she wouldn't have gotten into drugs", but the guilt that comes from deep inside the mind where you are thanking God (or a reasonable substitute for God) that she is no longer your problem.

376 2by2  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:30:18pm

re: #369 Walter L. Newton

Some of the best memories of the Holocaust have been kept alive by plays, books, movies, songs, pictures, paintings... you are kidding, right?

What about Yad Yashem? I guess that should not exist. Let's shut it down, take out all the artwork and memories and pictures and...

By the way, my play is about Janusz Korczak. His orphanage ended up behind the walls of the Warsaw ghetto during the invasion of Poland.

The is a whole wing dedicated to him at Yad Yashem, let's get rid of that too.

That's certainly not what I said, I spoke about art. No need to get defensive.
Yad Vashem is a memorial dedicated to the victims, just what I said should be done in keeping the memory of the Shoa alive.
As much as art is concerned, I am tired of second and third hand 'investigations', if it is historical, that's different, if it is about concepts, that's different as well.

377 solomonpanting  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:31:32pm

re: #360 2by2

I though, don't believe in making a work of art about events one did not experience.

Really? That would eliminate quite a bit of what has come down the pike.

378 2by2  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:32:55pm

re: #377 solomonpanting

what's coming down the pike?

379 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:33:27pm

re: #376 2by2

That's certainly not what I said, I spoke about art. No need to get defensive.
Yad Vashem is a memorial dedicated to the victims, just what I said should be done in keeping the memory of the Shoa alive.
As much as art is concerned, I am tired of second and third hand 'investigations', if it is historical, that's different, if it is about concepts, that's different as well.

There IS ART in Yad Vashem. The whole installation is art. Have you ever been to Warsaw? You'll trip over memorial art. And my play is historical. And it's the first ENGLISH telling of the history in a staged form.

What is wrong with that?

380 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:34:02pm
381 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:34:26pm

re: #379 Walter L. Newton

There IS ART in Yad Vashem. The whole installation is art. Have you ever been to Warsaw? You'll trip over memorial art. And my play is historical. And it's the first ENGLISH telling of the history in a staged form.

What is wrong with that?

Correction - And it's the first ENGLISH telling of the story (of Janusz Korczak) in a staged form.

382 solomonpanting  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:38:58pm

re: #378 2by2

what's coming down the pike?

According to your statement no one should have written a book, made a movie, sculpted a piece, painted a masterpiece or whathaveyou unless having participated in said subject?

383 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:39:34pm
384 Sharmuta  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:40:52pm

Guess we'll never get that "it was Darwin's fault" comment. Pity.

NOT

385 2by2  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:41:44pm

re: #379 Walter L. Newton

There IS ART in Yad Vashem. The whole installation is art. Have you ever been to Warsaw? You'll trip over memorial art. And my play is historical. And it's the first ENGLISH telling of the history in a staged form.

What is wrong with that?

I have been to Yad Vashem and to Poland. To Poland as recently as this summer.
(Krakow, Auschwitz, Poznan and a lot of former shtetls in Galitzia)
Nothing wrong with a historical play. I would like to get a copy of your play.
I was referring to a different brand of 'concerned' art, tons of it out there, specially in the visual arts. Stuff which exploits history and Jewish victims. I.e. Anselm Kiefer, whom I abhor, precisely because of it's in authenticity.

386 Iron Fist  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:44:45pm

re: #370 Ojoe

I agree. Baring true divine intervention, I don't see a path to any conclusion that doesn't pile the dead bodies in stacks along the roads and leave blood running red and strong in the gutters. I don't see any way to keep the conflict from escalating very quickly to the point nuclear weapons are used.

They are addicted to war. That is something that is easy to do. It was Robert E Lee that said that it was a good thing war was so terrible, for if it were not we would grow to love it. Wars aren't terrible to our enemy. Warfare has been adulterated by religion to the point that Mohammedans believe if they die while killing "infidels" they hit the Death lottery and go immediately to heaven where 72 women who only exist for the purpose of pleasing you will help you while away eternity.

That's a damn tempting offer, if you believe it's legit. Put me up close to the front so I can start racking up my fragged count. Sure it's dangerous. It wouldn't be as much fun if it wasn't.

387 J.S.  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:46:00pm

re: #365 Zimriel

There's not a lot of detail about Lang's thoughts...(and I haven't read Lang, other than in Rosenbaum's text)...Lang suggested that Hitler had "an artistic temperament" (but it was an "artistic", perverse imagination used for evil ends.) And, Lang (in some essays) suggested that evil has a progression...and that perhaps Hitler wasn't even the final phase, but that one could go even beyond Hitler...but this future "development" is also unpredictable...(Lang disputed Hannah Arendt's claim about the "banality of evil", as if the perp acts with a "heedlessness of moral questions" -- Lang believed that nazis were conscious of evil, their acts were "full of thought (of the roads taken and not taken) of deliberation, and imagination." Rosenbaum also notes that it was "Thomas Mann [who] was one of the first to recognize that at the heart of Hitler's appeal to the German people was his presentation of himself a a mythmaking artist rather than as a politician." And, Hitler surrounded himself with "collaborators who saw themselves as artistic in some form" (Rosenbaum then lists the "artistic" aspects of Heydrich, Goebbels, Goring, Speer, etc.)

388 2by2  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:51:02pm

re: #382 solomonpanting

According to your statement no one should have written a book, made a movie, sculpted a piece, painted a masterpiece or whathaveyou unless having participated in said subject?

Not exactly, I was talking about the holocaust and I believe that this 'event' was singular and can't be experienced through art. Specially not through art made by a generation removed from it by birth.
We can memorize it, that's all.

389 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:53:40pm

re: #383 ploome hineni

what is left to say

Read my script. Ok. There are numerous Polish and French language plays about him, an opera in the works and a children's play (in English) not about him, but just about the orphans called "Korczak's Children" written by Jeffery Hatcher of Chicago.

I don't understand what the why anyone would have a problem with a the fact that I adapted his life story for the stage.

390 wiffersnapper  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:53:58pm

Pat being Pat versus McCain bashing Palin: Race to the bottom

391 wiffersnapper  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:54:49pm

Does he not realize that anti-semitism was one of the focal points of the NSDAP?

392 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:55:11pm

re: #385 2by2

I have been to Yad Vashem and to Poland. To Poland as recently as this summer.
(Krakow, Auschwitz, Poznan and a lot of former shtetls in Galitzia)
Nothing wrong with a historical play. I would like to get a copy of your play.
I was referring to a different brand of 'concerned' art, tons of it out there, specially in the visual arts. Stuff which exploits history and Jewish victims. I.e. Anselm Kiefer, whom I abhor, precisely because of it's in authenticity.

Ok, then if you want, please click on my name, go to the "Field of Buttercups" link and click on the email link. I will be happy to email you a copy. Tell me if you want it in WORD or a PDF if you email me.

393 wiffersnapper  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 8:55:46pm

Speaking of which, here's some required reading.

394 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 9:00:33pm
395 Ojoe  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 9:04:26pm

re: #393 wiffersnapper

You might also read the book "The Occult and the Third Reich."

These guys were in the grip of the real power of darkness.


Be back tomorrow.

396 ploome hineni[deleted]  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 9:09:02pm
397 Zimriel  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 9:09:29pm

re: #395 Ojoe

You might also read the book "The Occult and the Third Reich."

These guys were in the grip of the real power of darkness.

Erk. No. No! The occult and Adolf had nothing to do with one another. Indiana Jones is not a historical primary source.

398 Haverwilde  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 9:15:59pm

re: #6 Ozark Mountain Daredevil

Hannity does. He's on his show about every other day it seems.

Sorry to come late. But Buchanan is just one topic I can't keep quiet about. The more Hannity gives credence to that azz-whole the less I watch his show. I started emailing Fox every time he came on the show. I said I refused to watch any show that gave that fascist a platform for his insanity. Finally gave up. Took too much work and never seemed to have an effect.
But if the entire Lizard Nation were to email them maybe we could get him off the air.

399 2by2  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 9:27:58pm

re: #394 ploome hineni
it is a problem with making the slaughter of Jews into an artistic/theatre experience
That's according to what I tried to say, maybe a bit more in pointing out that the Shoa is in my view a singular event, which doesn't compare to any other genocide, precisely because of the industrial way it was applied.
No one has come even close, Rwanda, Kurdistan, Armenia, all of these horrible slaughters were at least done with some tribal emotion.
The murder of 6 million Jews was done in cold blood, trying to achieve efficient killing methods, by unconcerned 'civilized' people.
There are a lot of concepts buried in the narrative:i.e.
like how did one arrive as a German soldier standing in front of a pit, shooting Jews? There were steps to be taken, little steps of accepting more and more bits of the dehumanizing effort of the Nazis, in order to end up being part of a firing squad or a Concentration Camp guard.
All I'm trying to say is that we can not fathom how we would have acted/reacted fared if we would have been exposed to this.
Up to this day, when I meet a real survivor of the camps, I view them as someone who has been in hell, beyond my feeble judgment.
And that is part of the respect we owe all of them. They have experienced the unspeakable, who are we to make 'art' about them?

400 2by2  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 9:29:04pm

re: #396 ploome hineni

nope he doesn't
I do like Francis Bacon though, and yes yum.

401 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Dec 17, 2008 10:01:39pm

re: #394 ploome hineni

it is not a problem with your play, per se

it is a problem with making the slaughter of Jews into an artistic/theatre experience

it's really a little sickening

especially since most European countries and peoples were saying for the past 60 years, it wasn't us it was the Germans

and are now saying, they don;t want to hear about it anymore

and actually trying to compare Israel to nazis

there are so many subjects for theatre, but maybe not the Holocaust

I understand what you are saying. It has been a 60 year old debate as to art and the Shoa.

Let me recount a little story. In northeast Poland, the field that was Treblinka, are 17 thousand monumental stones, each on with the name of a city, town or hamlet where the Jews were removed from. There is not a single stone with a personal name on it except one. And that one says "Janusz Korczak and the Children"

The is one stone in the field that heads the other stones, and on that one, in seven different languages are the words "never again."

Telling the story, in English, to Americans about Janusz Korczak and his children is my contribution to "never again."

But, as I said at the beginning of this comment, I understand what you are saying and I respect that.

402 Lance o Lot  Thu, Dec 18, 2008 3:18:49am

Pat Buchanan is an egotistical idiot. It's been years since I finished reading anything he has written. Ususally, by the third paragraph I realize the fragmented logic must belong to a nut-case, look up to see the authorship, shake my head and move on.

403 Arkay  Thu, Dec 18, 2008 6:19:00am

Any post on Pat Buchanan is, by definition, a boob thread.

Utterly untrue. Boobs are by definition *good* things.

I'd use a term far more scatalogical than boobs, but this is a family newspaper.

404 Yashmak  Thu, Dec 18, 2008 7:07:51am

re: #402 Lance o Lot

Pat Buchanan is an egotistical idiot. It's been years since I finished reading anything he has written. Ususally, by the third paragraph I realize the fragmented logic must belong to a nut-case, look up to see the authorship, shake my head and move on.

Same here. He's repugnant.

405 A.W.  Thu, Dec 18, 2008 7:16:21am

And this is why all the networks but fox like to talk to him, becuase they can hold this idiot up as the face of the republican party. sigh.

406 Noam Chumpski  Thu, Dec 18, 2008 7:40:36am

Pat's searchin' for relevance in all the wrong places.

Didn't he write a book on the premise that WWII wasn't necessary?

407 J.S.  Thu, Dec 18, 2008 7:47:57am

re: #405 A.W.

It's Fox "News" Network which (i hear) has been the network most likely to feature Pat Bastard. (btw, off topic, Obama has appointed another "republican" to his cabinet -- LaHood -- a Lebanese descent person and stridently anti-Israel, etc. Now that's the kind of "republicans", like Pat Bastard, that Obama fawns over.)

408 Thom  Thu, Dec 18, 2008 8:47:27am

re: #407 J.S.

It's Fox "News" Network which (i hear) has been the network most likely to feature Pat Bastard.

Buchanan is an MSNBC regular (e.g., on "Morning Joe"). I can't recall seeing him on Fox.

409 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 18, 2008 8:49:02am

re: #408 Thom

Buchanan is an MSNBC regular (e.g., on "Morning Joe"). I can't recall seeing him on Fox.

Hannity has had him on quite a few times. So glad I don't pay for that "pleasure".

410 Thom  Thu, Dec 18, 2008 8:55:58am

re: #409 Sharmuta

OK. I did a quick google and it looks like the last time he was on was in June on O'Reilly. But my point was that Fox is not the network that features Buchanan, it is unquestionably MSNBC.

411 J.S.  Thu, Dec 18, 2008 9:03:10am

re: #410 Thom

I've also seen Pat B. on a number of occasions on PBS...(he pops up all over...) (I never watch MSNBC, and I don't subscribe to Fox News, yet I still catch this dude on other channels...pretty disgusting...)

412 aaron's rantblog  Sun, Dec 21, 2008 2:13:59am

I'm sickened that the TownHall columnists don't go on strike and refuse to submit content until Pat Buchanan is removed. Ditto WND.


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