Congress Gives Itself a Raise

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
Politics • Fri Dec 19, 2008 at 9:39 am PST • Views: 189

The headline says it all: With economy in shambles, Congress gets a raise.

A crumbling economy, more than 2 million constituents who have lost their jobs this year, and congressional demands of CEOs to work for free did not convince lawmakers to freeze their own pay.

Instead, they will get a $4,700 pay increase, amounting to an additional $2.5 million that taxpayers will spend on congressional salaries, and watchdog groups are not happy about it.

“As lawmakers make a big show of forcing auto executives to accept just $1 a year in salary, they are quietly raiding the vault for their own personal gain,” said Daniel O’Connell, chairman of The Senior Citizens League (TSCL), a non-partisan group. “This money would be much better spent helping the millions of seniors who are living below the poverty line and struggling to keep their heat on this winter.”

However, at 2.8 percent, the automatic raise that lawmakers receive is only half as large as the 2009 cost of living adjustment of Social Security recipients.

(Hat tip: jorline.)

UPDATE at 12/19/08 9:53:05 am:

Meanwhile: Approval of Congress Drops to Single Digits Again.

Approval of Congress’ job performance is down to single digits again for the first time since early September.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of likely voters found that only nine percent (9%) give Congress good or excellent ratings, while 54% give the legislature poor marks. Just one-out-of-50 voters (2%) think Congress is doing an excellent job.

(Hat tip: Killgore.)

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448 comments

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1 Sharmuta  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:40:44am

I think Congressional pay raises should be subject to electorate approval.

2 apachegunner  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:40:45am

ahhh fresh air

3 ArmyWife  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:40:54am

Because they've done one hell of a job!

4 gclaghorn  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:41:09am

Absolutely disgraceful.

5 Golem Akbar  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:41:13am

Didn't JFK believe in less taxes? Camelot?

6 apachegunner  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:42:15am

if only their raises were based on their popularity. they'd be loosing a few buck in their checks.

7 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:42:35am

Meanwhile, FedEx management has decided to take pay cuts rather than do layoffs.

Quite the contrast.

8 Golem Akbar  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:42:48am

From Lilek's Twitter: Just got more complicated - a new Coleman legal challenge. In Doom difficulty terms, This just went from Hurt Me Plenty to Ultra-Violence.

9 cathypop  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:42:56am

re: #2 apachegunner

ahhh fresh air

Smells more like doo-doo to me

10 Shug  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:43:04am

I suggest they pass a law that any congressperson with a net worth of 10 million dollars, donate 100% of their salary to either charity or national debt reduction. their choice.

time to get patriotic. you first nancy

11 CapeCoddah  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:43:10am

re: #5 Golem Akbar

Didn't JFK believe in less taxes? Camelot?

JFK was no crown jewel, but, I suspect todays democratic party would make him roll in his grave.

12 nyc redneck  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:43:29am

why didn't they ask us how we feel abt. that? lol

we pay their salaries.
they need a pay cut. and many need to be pink slipped.
is a 9% approval rating now?

13 apachegunner  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:43:37am

breath through your mouth cathy re: #9 cathypop

14 Shug  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:43:39am

re: #3 ArmyWife

Because they've done one hell of a job!

Clowny you're doing a helluva job

15 Racer X  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:43:43am

Lets see:

The country is in financial crisis, many politicians are embroiled in scandal, healthcare is a mess, social security is bankrupt.

I know - lets give our politicians a raise!

/cause they're doing such a fine job.

16 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:43:45am

re: #7 karmic_inquisitor

Meanwhile, FedEx management has decided to take pay cuts rather than do layoffs.

Quite the contrast.

When it absolutely positively has to be done the right way.

17 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:43:47am

What's the congressional approval rating these days? 15%?

18 VegasRick  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:43:54am

re: #7 karmic_inquisitor

Meanwhile, FedEx management has decided to take pay cuts rather than do layoffs.

Quite the contrast.

Congress should be laid off.

19 wiffersnapper  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:44:03am

Country first, eh?

20 Opilio  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:44:13am

Voting oneself a raise during bad economic times is arrogant and callous. Doesn't matter if it cost the taxpayer $2 or $2B. It's wrong. If they got paid $40K + room and board, you'd have far fewer professional politicians.

21 little boomer  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:44:30am

Congress is too big to fail!

22 River Rat  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:44:30am

I don't and can't draw from SSI and don't get COLA, And I don't get a raise. Fuck Congress.

23 Sharmuta  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:44:41am

What have any of these people done to warrant a pay increase?!

Because I'm coming up blank. Anyone? Anyone?

24 Czarny_Smok  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:44:46am

Their pay increases should be actual positive achievement based, and any screw ups should be cause for either deductions or decreases. Also, put them on the same Social Security plan all of us plebeians have to face!

25 Racer X  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:44:46am

re: #17 Killgore Trout

What's the congressional approval rating these days? 15%?

It just hit zero with this news.

26 maddogg  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:44:46am

Never have so few made so much while deserving so little.
But then again I have trouble understanding why someone gets paid millions of dollars to run a company into bankruptcy.

27 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:44:57am

re: #23 Sharmuta

What have any of these people done to warrant a pay increase?!

Because I'm coming up blank. Anyone? Anyone?

Beuller?

28 Ojoe  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:45:00am

If you vote them out of office you won't have to pay them

29 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:45:01am

re: #11 CapeCoddah

JFK was no crown jewel, but, I suspect todays democratic party would make him roll in his grave.

I think the consensus here is that the Democratic Party fundamentally changed after LBJ.

30 wiffersnapper  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:45:02am

YES THEY DID

31 Killgore Trout  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:45:04am

Approval of Congress Drops to Single Digits Again

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of likely voters found that only nine percent (9%) give Congress good or excellent ratings, while 54% give the legislature poor marks. Just one-out-of-50 voters (2%) think Congress is doing an excellent job.

Great job, guys!

32 cathypop  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:45:07am

re: #20 Opilio

Voting oneself a raise during bad economic times is arrogant and callous. Doesn't matter if it cost the taxpayer $2 or $2B. It's wrong. If they got paid $40K + room and board, you'd have far fewer professional politicians.

And it will never happen because it makes too much sense.

33 CapeCoddah  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:45:11am

re: #18 VegasRick

Congress should be laid off.

Congress should be subjected to a mass perpwalk.

34 Golem Akbar  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:45:11am

re: #11 CapeCoddah

JFK was no crown jewel, but, I suspect todays democratic party would make him roll in his grave.

Oh agreed. But there have been Democrats in history who were for low taxes and were also pro-America/democracy/anti-fascist. Today they are called Republicans.

35 VegasRick  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:45:22am

re: #19 wiffersnapper

Country first, eh?

36 hermit  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:45:23am

re: #17 Killgore Trout

What's the congressional approval rating these days? 15%?

There's the answer...your salary is commensurate with the approval rating...they can have 15% of what they're due -- heh.

37 gclaghorn  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:45:43am

re: #23 Sharmuta

What have any of these people done to warrant a pay increase?!

Because I'm coming up blank. Anyone? Anyone?

They can't afford their illegal immigrant butlers in their mansions in the Hamptons anymore. *sob*

/

38 philosophus invidius  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:45:51am

This doesn't bother me. These guys/gals would make a lot more money in the private sector, and the more underpaid they are in the public office, the more incentive they have to use their office to make up the difference in "other ways"--like Blagojevich.

39 VegasRick  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:46:02am

re: #28 Ojoe

If you vote them out of office you won't have to pay them

Sure you do!

40 CyanSnowHawk  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:46:09am

re: #28 Ojoe

If you vote them out of office you won't have to pay them

Since all their pay raises only take effect after an intervening election, IIRC.

41 little boomer  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:46:14am

Hey 2.8% approval, 2.8% pay hike, seems fair to me.

42 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:46:24am

It's half as much as those getting Social Security? Like we're supposed to compare apples to oranges?

Members of Congress work for us, and they've done an abysmal job. If you do a bad job, you shouldn't be getting a raise. You should be getting fired. Despite that, most members got sent back to Congress - a typical election sees roughly 90% reelected. This, despite the most unethical Congress in years and ratings that make Bush look downright heroic in comparison.

That speaks poorly of the voters around the nation that continue to stand for this nonsense election after election. Some of it is the product of one-party domination. Some of it is the result of conditioning to vote D or R regardless of who we're talking about.

Pelosi and Reid have taken Congressional ratings and dropped them lower than anyone could possibly imagine - though there's still room for them to drop which gives them hope to achieve the impossible - a negative poll rating.

43 hermit  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:46:31am

re: #24 Czarny_Smok

Their pay increases should be actual positive achievement based, and any screw ups should be cause for either deductions or decreases. Also, put them on the same Social Security plan all of us plebeians have to face!

New Program! No Congressman Left Behind

44 Desert Dog  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:46:32am

re: #11 CapeCoddah

JFK was no crown jewel, but, I suspect todays democratic party would make him roll in his grave.

He was living in today's world he would have trouble making it through the primaries with the current crop of Demokraps running things now. His views were more Republican than Democrat using the standard of today. That added, I still think he was a mediocre President, at best.

45 ArmyWife  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:46:36am

re: #31 Killgore Trout

They gave themselves a raise in correlation to the people who think they are doing an excellent job! I suggest we do a cut in correlation to the percentange who think they suck.

46 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:46:53am

re: #23 Sharmuta

What have any of these people done to warrant a pay increase?!

Because I'm coming up blank. Anyone? Anyone?

What do you mean?

Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi have cleaned up Washington and saved us from a "culture of corruption". No that politics is no longer partisan (another thing they promised) we can be certain that congress only makes laws that are needed.

/

47 maddogg  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:47:03am

re: #28 Ojoe

If you vote them out of office you won't have to pay them

Sorry, but we will be paying for them til they croak. (pension, healthcare, etc.)

48 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:47:13am
However, at 2.8 percent, the automatic raise that lawmakers receive is only half as large as the 2009 cost of living adjustment of Social Security recipients.

So, Social Security recipients will be getting 4,700 in adjustments? What a stupid comparison.

49 nyc redneck  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:47:23am

and just in time for christmas. what a bunch of scrooges.
while we tighten our belts.
greed is so ugly.

50 Racer X  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:47:25am

I'm pretty sure we could find plenty of average Americans willing to do congress' jobs for much less. They couldn't possibly fuck up the country any worse.

51 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:47:42am

re: #8 Golem Akbar

From Lilek's Twitter: Just got more complicated - a new Coleman legal challenge. In Doom difficulty terms, This just went from Hurt Me Plenty to Ultra-Violence.

Ah, memories!

52 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:47:42am
53 Shug  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:47:45am

Rush discussing Global Cooling

54 ArmyWife  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:47:56am

re: #46 karmic_inquisitor

Dam! I hadn't noticed all they did. Silly us. =)

55 LGoPs  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:48:02am

I think what we're developing here in America is a Mandarin class of bureaucrats...out of touch with the people and an insult to the term 'Public Servant'...

56 Desert Dog  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:48:05am

re: #31 Killgore Trout

Approval of Congress Drops to Single Digits Again

Great job, guys!

I vote for Nancy Pelosi as the absolute worst Speaker of the House, ever...Harry Reid is a good choice for most worthless Senate Majority Leader too.

57 Eowyn2  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:48:26am

re: #31 Killgore Trout

Approval of Congress Drops to Single Digits Again


Great job, guys!

unfortunately, too many people think that since a Republican is President, obviously the Republicans have been controlling the house and senate for the past 8 yrs as well.!

58 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:48:29am

re: #33 CapeCoddah

Congress should be subjected to a mass perpwalk.

I've been screaming that for months now. There has been CRIMINAL activity going on in DC, shit that you or I would have been locked away A LONG TIME AGO.

59 Sharmuta  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:48:52am

re: #31 Killgore Trout

Approval of Congress Drops to Single Digits Again

Great job, guys!

Let's give them a state raise!

60 Racer X  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:48:55am

re: #38 philosophus invidius

This doesn't bother me. These guys/gals would make a lot more money in the private sector, and the more underpaid they are in the public office, the more incentive they have to use their office to make up the difference in "other ways"--like Blagojevich.

You're kidding right? Politicians would starve clear to death in the private sector.

Accountability.

61 ArmyWife  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:49:00am

re: #50 Racer X

I volunteer! I KNOW I could do a better job than the disgraces Maryland has up there. Plus, I am a mother.

62 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:49:09am

re: #42 lawhawk

It's half as much as those getting Social Security? Like we're supposed to compare apples to oranges?

Members of Congress work for us, and they've done an abysmal job. If you do a bad job, you shouldn't be getting a raise. You should be getting fired. Despite that, most members got sent back to Congress - a typical election sees roughly 90% reelected. This, despite the most unethical Congress in years and ratings that make Bush look downright heroic in comparison.

That speaks poorly of the voters around the nation that continue to stand for this nonsense election after election. Some of it is the product of one-party domination. Some of it is the result of conditioning to vote D or R regardless of who we're talking about.

Pelosi and Reid have taken Congressional ratings and dropped them lower than anyone could possibly imagine - though there's still room for them to drop which gives them hope to achieve the impossible - a negative poll rating.

And this is the one area that De Tocqueville, for all his foresight and magnificence, could not see: GERRYMANDERING.

63 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:49:19am

Scum...

64 Eowyn2  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:49:23am

re: #38 philosophus invidius

This doesn't bother me. These guys/gals would make a lot more money in the private sector, and the more underpaid they are in the public office, the more incentive they have to use their office to make up the difference in "other ways"--like Blagojevich.

most of us work in the private sector.
In he private sector, people expect results.

65 DaddyG  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:49:29am

So Senators and Representatives could make more in private industry?

So what is the hourly take for a pimp these days?

66 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:49:34am

Let's say it all together...

P L U T O C R A C Y !

67 philosophus invidius  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:49:36am

re: #60 Racer X

Did Rahm Emannuel starve to death?

68 CapeCoddah  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:49:47am

re: #38 philosophus invidius

This doesn't bother me. These guys/gals would make a lot more money in the private sector, and the more underpaid they are in the public office, the more incentive they have to use their office to make up the difference in "other ways"--like Blagojevich.

They are anything but underpaid. None of these jackasses could hold a job in the private sector. Most never have. If I performed like that in my job, I would not have one. They do not deserve a tenth of what they are paid. The constitution was set up so that community leaders would go to congress to represent their neighbors for a term or two, leaving their own business while they served, then they were meant to go back home and the next guy was to go. It was NEVER meant to be a career, and certainly never meant to be dynastic.

69 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:49:53am
70 Eowyn2  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:50:05am

speaking of results, I best get some work done.

71 maddogg  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:50:16am

re: #65 DaddyG

So Senators and Representatives could make more in private industry?

So what is the hourly take for a pimp these days?

Ask Barny Frank.

72 Desert Dog  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:50:40am

re: #69 buzzsawmonkey

I'm just guessing here, but I bet that single digit was the middle one.

Yes, and they are aiming it at us, as they pass themselves a raise

73 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:50:49am

Since it was the Congress that set off the defationary cycle we are now in by turning the mortgage market into a speculative playground for overleveraged hedge funds, shouldn't a "cost of living" increase be a negative number?

74 wiffersnapper  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:50:55am

And this pay raise makes america better how?

75 Occasional Reader  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:50:56am

Hey, cheer up. That 2.8% raise will be quickly consumed by the runaway inflation they're stoking!

Wait. That's not so cheerful, is it?

76 DaddyG  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:51:38am

re: #67 philosophus invidius

Did Rahm Emannuel starve to death?

No - lack of exposure to light.

77 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:51:45am

re: #70 Eowyn2

speaking of results, I best get some work done.

Me too. C ya.

78 Shug  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:51:46am

now maybe Barney Frank can afford to get some freaking teeth

79 SFGoth  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:51:48am

Time to invoke Jefferson, no? At least Bush'll be gone next month. I'd prefer he abandon his cumpashionit conservatism than the free market principles he never had. Aside from tax cuts and maybe Iraq - I'd like to know what he really thought about the post-war period and who would finance it - what a disaster. He's the executive equivalent of David Souter.

80 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:52:04am
81 JammieWearingFool  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:52:06am

If the Republicans have half a clue they refuse the raise, allow the Democrats to take it and then pound it over their heads for two years.

82 subsailor68  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:52:29am

re: #31 Killgore Trout

Approval of Congress Drops to Single Digits Again

Great job, guys!

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey of likely voters found that only nine percent (9%) give Congress good or excellent ratings, while 54% give the legislature poor marks. Just one-out-of-50 voters (2%) think Congress is doing an excellent job.

Okay, ya wanna know somethin'? I really, really, really hope I never meet those morons in the 2% who think Congress is doing an excellent job. Especially if they're a) driving or b) running with sharp objects.

Bleh.

83 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:52:35am

re: #38 philosophus invidius

This doesn't bother me. These guys/gals would make a lot more money in the private sector, and the more underpaid they are in the public office, the more incentive they have to use their office to make up the difference in "other ways"--like Blagojevich.

What. So, you are saying you would prefer to see them fuck up, see them participate in criminal activities, that they break the law.

You sir, are no philosophus invidius.

Geeessshhh.

84 Shug  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:52:45am

re: #81 JammieWearingFool

If the Republicans have half a clue they refuse the raise, allow the Democrats to take it and then pound it over their heads for two years.

or donate the raise to the children of fallen soldiers

85 Steve  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:52:45am

s**theads, the lot of them.

Sorry for the profanity but I could not express it any other way.

86 Occasional Reader  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:52:59am

re: #68 CapeCoddah

The constitution was set up so that community leaders organizers would go to congress

Change!

87 Racer X  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:53:02am

re: #67 philosophus invidius

Did Rahm Emannuel starve to death?

Don't distract me with facts.

;-)

OK, most politicians would starve to death in the private sector.

88 LGoPs  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:53:08am

re: #57 Eowyn2

unfortunately, too many people think that since a Republican is President, obviously the Republicans have been controlling the house and senate for the past 8 yrs as well.!

Good point. We really are living in the Age of Stupidity. Ironic that we fancy ourselves the most informed and educated in history, yet many have about as much awareness as any mob in the Middle Ages - makes me think of the crowd gathered to burn the witch in Monty Python's Holy Grail...'she turned me into a newt"...

89 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:53:10am

re: #78 Shug

now maybe Barney Frank can afford to get some freaking teeth

But would his boyfriend like it?

90 irongrampa  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:53:14am

Actually, they SHOULD receive a raise for their unflagging efforts to reduce approval ratings.
It's only fitting to reward hard work.

91 ArmyWife  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:53:17am

re: #76 DaddyG

Is he hanging out with Biden somewheres?

92 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:53:39am

re: #85 Steve

s**theads, the lot of them.

Sorry for the profanity but I could not express it any other way.

I didn't see the profanity. If you can't, I will...

SHITHEADS.

93 Hard Right  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:53:42am

They need a pay CUT, NOT RAISE!

94 jwb7605  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:53:42am

re: #81 JammieWearingFool

If the Republicans have half a clue they refuse the raise, allow the Democrats to take it and then pound it over their heads for two years.

Exactly.
Won't happen.
Reason bolded.

95 SFGoth  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:54:10am

BTW, what is the range of predictions for when all this funny money causes rampant inflation? I'm in the process of re-financing my mortgage from 30 year fixed 5.5 to 30YF 4.9 (no points, $1200 closing costs) for a drop of $190/mo ($229,000 balance on a Noe Valley, SF condo) and my equity line is prime -.25% Just trying to plan ahead, if that's possible, so for now I'm hoarding cash.

96 Steve  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:54:13am

re: #92 Walter L. Newton

thanks;P

97 Hard Right  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:54:17am

re: #88 LGoPs

Good point. We really are living in the Age of Stupidity. Ironic that we fancy ourselves the most informed and educated in history, yet many have about as much awareness as any mob in the Middle Ages - makes me think of the crowd gathered to burn the witch in Monty Python's Holy Grail...'she turned me into a newt"...

A newt?!
I got better...

98 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:54:18am

re: #81 JammieWearingFool

If the Republicans have half a clue they refuse the raise, allow the Democrats to take it and then pound it over their heads for two years.

A thousand up-dings!

99 Racer X  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:54:23am

re: #92 Walter L. Newton

SHITHEADS.

Bastages!

100 doppelganglander  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:54:35am

re: #31 Killgore Trout

Approval of Congress Drops to Single Digits Again

Great job, guys!

They're pretty excited, because they're still a point or two above Blagojevich.

101 CapeCoddah  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:54:36am

re: #86 Occasional Reader

Change!

That is all they should be paid!

102 Sharmuta  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:54:37am

I'd love to see this in the real world:

Hey boss- the other employees and I took a vote, and you have to pay us more even though we're less productive, but hey- it's only half the rate of the cost of living increase for social security benefits, so don't whine. Merry Christmas!

103 SFGoth  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:54:50am

re: #81 JammieWearingFool

If the Republicans have half a clue they refuse the raise, allow the Democrats to take it and then pound it over their heads for two years.

They don't and they won't. Cowards and hypocrites, with one or two exceptions.

104 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:55:02am

re: #96 Steve

thanks;P

Happy to help. I'm a heathen, so, no problem.

105 Desert Dog  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:55:17am

re: #93 Hard Right

They need a pay CUT, NOT RAISE!


Pay cut? They need to REFUND last years salary back to the taxpayers for screwing things up so badly!

106 Cap'n DOC  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:55:45am

re: #83 Walter L. Newton

I regret that I can only afford one upding for that.

107 DaddyG  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:56:08am

re: #81 JammieWearingFool

If the Republicans have half a clue...

I see the problem with your premise. If I only had a brain.

108 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:56:49am
109 Stonemason  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:56:59am

Posted on last thread, boy I am slow!

re: #116 Opilio

It seems to me that the COLA raise they get was put in place to get around the constitutional amendment that prohibits the voting of ones-self a raise while in office. This is much like side-stepping the constitution to allow Lloyd Bentsen (SP?) and Hillary to become an appointed official whose salary was increased due to the vote of the party involved.

I don't think we should be allowing Congress to be side-stepping the constitution in this manner which is why I am a huge proponent of voting them all out and starting fresh.

110 Big Steve  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:57:06am

So lets start a movement...since Congress wants the Bailout CEO's to take no money, they shouldn't either. I vote we ask our congressman to agree to a 1$ salary for 2009.

111 CapeCoddah  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:57:16am

re: #102 Sharmuta

I'd love to see this in the real world:

Hey boss- the other employees and I took a vote, and you have to pay us more even though we're less productive, but hey- it's only half the rate of the cost of living increase for social security benefits, so don't whine. Merry Christmas!

Sharm, That is called a Union.

112 apachegunner  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:57:22am

re: #78 Shug
I suppose he is better without them during sex. maby he had them all pulled out.

113 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:57:40am

re: #102 Sharmuta

I'd love to see this in the real world:

Hey boss- the other employees and I took a vote, and you have to pay us more even though we're less productive, but hey- it's only half the rate of the cost of living increase for social security benefits, so don't whine. Merry Christmas!

Who the fuck does public relations for these asswads? This is proof that there isn't even a shallow vail of pretense with these people any more (I like that phrase, shallow vail of pretense (tm))

They have gone all out shit bat crazy.

114 VegasRick  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:57:56am

PAY RAISE? PAY RAISE? WE"RE TALKIN ABOUT A PAY RAISE?

Jim Mora reference.

115 alegrias  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:57:57am

Sarah Palin TURNED DOWN a pay raise, if you haven't seen this in today's news yet.

What a patriot, not a porker.

116 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:58:02am

re: #80 buzzsawmonkey

Let alone a drunken careen.

You can have my taxes but keep your hands off my ambulatory drunken careening...

117 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:58:11am

re: #106 Cap'n DOC

I regret that I can only afford one upding for that.

His karma's in the shit can anyway. Thanks.

118 Shug  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:58:18am

shhh. nobody wake up senator Byrd and tell he didn't get a raise.

119 JHW  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:58:20am

Very OT, but at this moment I'm also watching a History Channel presentation
"Wake Island",seeing those very aged USMC vets that served us so well almost drives me to tears even thinking about Reid, Pelosi. et al, and their "service" to this nation. What a contrast.

120 Sharmuta  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:58:23am

re: #111 CapeCoddah

Sharm, That is called a Union.

You're right. Silly me, I'd forgotten.

121 wiffersnapper  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:58:45am

Wonder what the exhange rate on the euro will be after all this socialist nonsense is over.

122 Shug  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:58:55am

re: #114 VegasRick

PAY RAISE? PAY RAISE? WE"RE TALKIN ABOUT A PAY RAISE?

Jim Mora reference.


PAYOFFS ?
PAYOFFS ?

are you kidding me?
PAYOFFS ?

123 wiffersnapper  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:59:11am

re: #114 VegasRick

Mora ftw

124 wiffersnapper  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:59:26am

re: #122 Shug

even better

125 avanti  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:59:27am

Speaking of the auto industry, the news is that GM is selling off it's Heritage Auto collection to raise money. As a car collector, I find it sad that GM would sell off it"s history to make a few token dollars to impress Congress.. To me, it shows that GM's management are not car guys.
It's like the US auctioning off the Statue of Liberty to reduce the deficit, once it's gone, it's gone for ever.
As a Studebaker collector. I'm glad to say the company gave it's collection to the city of South Bend to save it and we have a first class Studebaker Museum. Info on buying some of GM's proud history here.

Pick over the bones.

126 realwest  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:59:35am

I'd say I'm shocked by this, but sadly I'm not. I notice that this was posted two days ago and not a freaking peep out of the MSM. Not. One. Word.
Thanks for bringing this to our attention Charles.

127 Occasional Reader  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:59:51am

re: #121 wiffersnapper

Wonder what the exhange rate on the euro will be after all this socialist nonsense is over.

Hard to say, since the euros engage in plenty of socialist nonsense themselves.

128 CapeCoddah  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:59:52am

re: #113 Walter L. Newton

Who the fuck does public relations for these asswads? This is proof that there isn't even a shallow vail of pretense with these people any more (I like that phrase, shallow vail of pretense (tm))

They have gone all out shit bat crazy.

PR? They don't need no stinkin PR, They can do whatever they wish, and screw anyone who objects! Just WHO THE HELL are we to object? /

129 jamgarr  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:59:55am

re: #113 Walter L. Newton

shallow vail of pretense (tm)

Ooooh. I'll play. How about "diaphanous pail of water"

/just kidding

130 DaddyG  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:00:14am

re: #121 wiffersnapper

Wonder what the exhange rate on the euro will be after all this socialist nonsense is over.

It will be 1:1 and one in the same if the nonsense socialists get their way.

131 VegasRick  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:00:15am

re: #122 Shug

PAYOFFS ?
PAYOFFS ?

are you kidding me?
PAYOFFS ?

Good one!

132 Stonemason  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:00:33am

re: #38 philosophus invidius

This doesn't bother me. These guys/gals would make a lot more money in the private sector, and the more underpaid they are in the public office, the more incentive they have to use their office to make up the difference in "other ways"--like Blagojevich.

Bull*(&

Let them go to the private sector then. This salary is only the tip of the iceberg in what they are paid. Travel, living, food, healthcare we can't even begin to think about, retirement that is NOT social Sceurity, the list goes on.

Politicians SHOULD NOT be career oriented, we should have the guts to let new people try every few years.

133 jwb7605  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:00:40am

re: #115 alegrias

Sarah Palin TURNED DOWN a pay raise, if you haven't seen this in today's news yet.

What a patriot, not a porker.

Yeah, but it's because she is too busy having a baby tomorrow in secret. Ya see, it was actually Trig that turned down the raise.

My greatest fear is that the pundits who say Palin has no political future might be right.
I mean, that is truly one of my fears.

134 Kragar  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:00:46am

Well, my plan was to pay off all my debts come January, but at this rate, I'll be picking up that carbine I've been wanting first off.

135 Cap'n DOC  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:00:52am

re: #113 Walter L. Newton

You're on a slippery ski slope there, Walter.

shallow vail of pretense

I believe you meant veil.

136 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:01:02am
137 realwest  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:02:00am

re: #59 Sharmuta
Nah, you were right the first time Sharm - let's give 'em a state, how about Minnesota?!

138 Occasional Reader  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:02:22am

re: #132 Stonemason

This salary is only the tip of the iceberg in what they are paid. Travel, living, food, healthcare we can't even begin to think about

Okay, but, counterargument; if Congress' salary really were capped at $40K plus room and board (as someone suggested previously), that would pretty much guarantee that only millionaires or people owned by Soros would wind up in Congress.

139 yma o hyd  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:02:26am

re: #130 DaddyG

It will be 1:1 and one in the same if the nonsense socialists get their way.

Blimey.
$$ in parity with the Euro? or even lower, as the ££ is well on its way?

Euro euro ueber Alles, like, innit ...
Who won the war again?

140 JacksonTn  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:02:27am

I am always one thread behind ...I posted this in the last thread ...

One thing that needs to be changed NOW ...is that they should not be paid while they are campaigning ...if you look at the voting records of all candidates during the last election the amount of times they did not vote is crazy ...how long was the campaign for prez going on 2 years almost ...Obama rarely voted during that time ...almost none of the candidates did ...I say pay them by the vote ...

141 SFGoth  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:02:41am

re: #136 Iron Fist

Guns and ammunition are also sound investments. They are not likely to go down in value, and if things go dramatically wrong, they might be worth their weight in gold.

LOL, I don't care if they're worth *their* weight in gold, I care if they're worth *my weight*, since that's what they're protectin' - you betcha!

142 Lincolntf  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:04:01am

They've got balls, I'll give them that.

143 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:04:05am
144 realwest  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:05:04am

re: #132 Stonemason
Great post! Their health care is or at least should be, the envy of the World - free doctor, dental, medical, eye care, hospital etc. FREE they don't pay a nickel for it.
And their pensions are truly obscene.
And a lot of them have never held anything but a government job. Career lawmakers is NOT a good idea at all.

145 subsailor68  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:05:19am

I know it's kind of a generalization, perhaps with some rose-colored glasses thrown in, but is seems like the folks who constituted (no pun) the Congress in the early years of the Republic didn't really want to be there. They considered it a duty to go, serve, then go home. They all had other pursuits and never considered making it a career.

Things seemed to work just fine back then. Not now.

146 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:05:48am

re: #138 Occasional Reader

Okay, but, counterargument; if Congress' salary really were capped at $40K plus room and board (as someone suggested previously), that would pretty much guarantee that only millionaires or people owned by Soros would wind up in Congress.

As it stands, Congress is turning into a millionaires club - including woman of the people Nancy Pelosi.

Here's a breakdown of the net worth. Even the poorest members of Congress are rich.

147 jwb7605  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:06:04am

re: #138 Occasional Reader

Okay, but, counterargument; if Congress' salary really were capped at $40K plus room and board (as someone suggested previously), that would pretty much guarantee that only millionaires or people owned by Soros would wind up in Congress.

Wrong tense?

148 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:06:09am

re: #135 Cap'n DOC

You're on a slippery ski slope there, Walter.
I believe you meant veil.

That to.

149 yma o hyd  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:06:50am

re: #138 Occasional Reader

Okay, but, counterargument; if Congress' salary really were capped at $40K plus room and board (as someone suggested previously), that would pretty much guarantee that only millionaires or people owned by Soros would wind up in Congress.

We don't know that, do we.
One could, for example, stipulate that only those who have run their own successful business, or have served in the Armed Forces/Police/Emergency Services are allowed to stand - and only for two terms of four years.

Basically, the whole process needs to be shaken up - and before you think I'm pointing the finger, elt me tell you that it is as bad here in the UK as it is in your country.
Worse, actually ...

150 Kragar  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:07:00am

Damn, just looked it up online and Ruger doesnt offer the carbine I was hoping to get anymore

151 Stonemason  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:08:00am

re: #138 Occasional Reader

Okay, but, counterargument; if Congress' salary really were capped at $40K plus room and board (as someone suggested previously), that would pretty much guarantee that only millionaires or people owned by Soros would wind up in Congress.

Ahhh, but why? Wouldn't you do it for that money? I would, and I make over 70 now. The honor to serve the country should come first.

I know, human nature is not that way, but there are plenty of people who love this country enough to do the job for that money.

How many people love their communities enough to sit on School Boards, Township Boards, or other non-paid elected positions?

really, the $6 per day that was first paid wasn't enumeration, it was to cover expenses in getting to and from Congress. Most of those guys needed to get home to work to feed the family.

I know, another pipe dream post from Stonemason

152 Noam Sayin'  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:08:15am
153 ArmyWife  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:08:38am

re: #115 alegrias

I bet she bamboozled those congress critters to TAKE the pay raise so she could turn hers down, and then make this all about her.

///

154 Occasional Reader  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:08:51am

re: #149 yma o hyd

One could, for example, stipulate that only those who have run their own successful business, or have served in the Armed Forces/Police/Emergency Services are allowed to stand

Um... no thanks. Anti-democratic, very slippery slope.

155 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:08:56am
156 maddogg  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:09:19am

Congressional pay raise, the first increase in welfare payments of the new administration.

157 hermit  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:09:57am

Okay, let me get this right...

Congressperson = $169,000+
US avg income 2005 = $46,000

perhaps if the congressional pay were directly tied to the mean income of the citizens of the country, they would work harder to improve the economy?

158 Duke6855  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:09:57am

re: #10 Shug

Here's part of the problem though - while members of Congress do get paid well, those who would do the best job in congress can get much better salaries elsewhere. It seems to me that if you increase the paycheck a member of congress gets it makes it more likely we'll have politicians who are actually able to serve their country well. Instead now with our current campaign finance laws it is all too easy for a family with a lot of dough to get a scion elected to the Senate - and to them the paycheck is chump change anyway.

159 Steve  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:10:05am

re: #150 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Damn, just looked it up online and Ruger doesnt offer the carbine I was hoping to get anymore

Try:
[Link: gunbroker.com...]

or
[Link: www.gunsamerica.com...]

160 Shug  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:10:14am

Caroline Kennedy doesn't even vote.

She'll make a GREAT senator

161 yma o hyd  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:10:28am

re: #146 lawhawk

Staggering! Breath-taking!

Why can't they 'work' for free?

162 caligal  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:10:39am

what little respect I had for them is now gone...poof!

163 SFGoth  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:10:51am

re: #158 Duke6855

Here's part of the problem though - while members of Congress do get paid well, those who would do the best job in congress can get much better salaries elsewhere. It seems to me that if you increase the paycheck a member of congress gets it makes it more likely we'll have politicians who are actually able to serve their country well. Instead now with our current campaign finance laws it is all too easy for a family with a lot of dough to get a scion elected to the Senate - and to them the paycheck is chump change anyway.

It's the cost of running that's the gatekeeper, not the cost of staying in office.

164 PISSED  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:11:01am

Hi all and MERRY CHRISTMAS!

My only comment is the lemmings KEEP electing these BOZOS!

Sorry if i disparaged any clowns in my rant : )

165 DaddyG  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:11:04am

re: #160 Shug

Caroline Kennedy doesn't even vote.

She'll make a GREAT senator

Not even present?

166 rawmuse  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:11:13am

re: #81 JammieWearingFool

If the Republicans have half a clue they refuse the raise, allow the Democrats to take it and then pound it over their heads for two years.

Can they do that? Sounds fitting.

167 VegasRick  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:11:42am

re: #155 Iron Fist

Watch your fuckin' mouth. We don't allow that kind of bullshit here.

Who are you talking to? I must have missed it.

168 Occasional Reader  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:11:47am

re: #151 Stonemason

really, the $6 per day that was first paid wasn't enumeration, it was to cover expenses in getting to and from Congress. Most of those guys needed to get home to work to feed the family.

Actually, most of those guys were wealthy, and didn't have to do much of the way of physical "work". Sure, they could perfectly well accept a small stipend in return for serving in Congress, because they were rich. That's the trap.

I work a lot with Latin America, and for wonderfully "populist" reasons, Latin America is full of presidents and parliamentarians whose official salaries are set are ridiculously low levels. This leads directly to a combination of corruption and plutocracy.

169 Shug  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:12:18am

re: #158 Duke6855

Here's part of the problem though - while members of Congress do get paid well, those who would do the best job in congress can get much better salaries elsewhere. It seems to me that if you increase the paycheck a member of congress gets it makes it more likely we'll have politicians who are actually able to serve their country well. Instead now with our current campaign finance laws it is all too easy for a family with a lot of dough to get a scion elected to the Senate - and to them the paycheck is chump change anyway.


I'm just using their own mantra against them. The whole Democrat Rich can pay their fair share garbage means that the rich in congress can work for nothing.

you know , to be patriotic.

those who don't have an enormous net worth can get paid a few hundred thousand dollars a year. I have no problem with that.

I want to use their own logic against them

170 CapeCoddah  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:12:26am

BBL, gotta go p/u payroll. For folks who have actually WORKED for and EARNED it.

171 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:12:33am
172 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:12:40am
173 subsailor68  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:12:50am

re: #150 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Damn, just looked it up online and Ruger doesnt offer the carbine I was hoping to get anymore

I know. Seems like it's harder and harder to find the weapons you want. I've been talking to more knowledgeable friends and they all seem to think that a good survival collection should include at least a 12 ga shotgun (pump), a hunting rifle (such as a 30-30), a .22 cal varmint rifle, at least one semi-auto pistol, and at least one revolver.

I've got some work to do. (And finding "no longer" available isn't helping.)

174 Occasional Reader  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:13:08am

re: #155 Iron Fist

Whom are you addressing?

175 Duke6855  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:13:12am

re: #151 Stonemason

The honor to serve is well and good and all - but you would find it very difficult to put together a cohesive campaign simply on small donations from your peers. Families who can afford to drop a couple million on a campaign will generally have a pretty clear advantage over Joe six-pack who earnestly wants to serve his country for a term.

176 yma o hyd  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:13:23am

re: #154 Occasional Reader

Um... no thanks. Anti-democratic, very slippery slope.

Is it any less democratic than having a system where only millionaires and/or those with 'friends' like Soros can actually afford to run for Congress?

177 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:13:50am

Oh crap. I just heard on the news that Al Franken has pulled ahead of Norm Coleman in the MN Senate race. Looks like Franken may steal that seat after all.

178 Occasional Reader  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:13:56am

re: #150 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Damn, just looked it up online and Ruger doesnt offer the carbine I was hoping to get anymore

Have you tried finding it used at CarbineMax?

/

179 Stonemason  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:13:57am

re: #158 Duke6855

Damnit, then let them work in the private sector. Having money doe not make one a better leader than those of us that do not have money. Just because I never finished my law degree does not mean I am not bright enough to serve, just because that inner city kid had to drop out to feed his family does not mean he is not bright enough to serve.
I am tired of the elitist feeling that we get the best and brightest because the salary is high, that is pure and utter bullcrap.

180 Desert Dog  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:14:06am

re: #168 Occasional Reader

Actually, most of those guys were wealthy, and didn't have to do much of the way of physical "work". Sure, they could perfectly well accept a small stipend in return for serving in Congress, because they were rich. That's the trap.

I work a lot with Latin America, and for wonderfully "populist" reasons, Latin America is full of presidents and parliamentarians whose official salaries are set are ridiculously low levels. This leads directly to a combination of corruption and plutocracy.

Well, ours are set higher and we have the same combo here, corruption and plutocracy...maybe it's just the nature of politics and it does not matter where or when?

181 pat  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:14:32am

I seriously doubt that these corrupt halfwits care what the public thinks.

182 Stonemason  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:14:50am

re: #164 PISSED

Hi all and MERRY CHRISTMAS!

My only comment is the lemmings KEEP electing these BOZOS!

Sorry if i disparaged any clowns in my rant : )

Bingo

183 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:14:56am
184 Desert Dog  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:14:58am

re: #171 buzzsawmonkey

Great; we're turning into colonial Africa of eighty to a hundred years ago, when rock salt and cartridges were considered valid mediums of exchange, along with Maria Theresa thalers.

Senate seats are now a viable commodity too! (Unless you get caught!)

185 Kragar  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:15:17am

re: #173 subsailor68

I know. Seems like it's harder and harder to find the weapons you want. I've been talking to more knowledgeable friends and they all seem to think that a good survival collection should include at least a 12 ga shotgun (pump), a hunting rifle (such as a 30-30), a .22 cal varmint rifle, at least one semi-auto pistol, and at least one revolver.

I've got some work to do. (And finding "no longer" available isn't helping.)

Got a Mossberg 12ga, and a Ruger P-series .40cal. I was hoping to grab a PC4 carbine since it uses the same magazine and ammo as the pistol. Seems there are a few of them still out there, just go to track them down and get one into the PRCA.

186 Duke6855  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:15:52am

re: #163 SFGoth

Oh, I agree entirely. And forgive me if I'm wrong, but McCain-Feingold reinforced that, right? So it's a two-part problem: those of high ability can get paid better elsewhere, and those of low net-worth cannot get the campaign donations they need to compete.

187 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:16:00am

re: #178 Occasional Reader

Have you tried finding it used at CarbineMax?

/

"Owned by a little old lady, who only fired it on Sundays."

188 VegasRick  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:16:05am

BBL

189 Occasional Reader  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:16:14am

re: #171 buzzsawmonkey

Great; we're turning into colonial Africa of eighty to a hundred years ago, when rock salt and cartridges were considered valid mediums of exchange, along with Maria Theresa thalers.

Mistah Kurtz, he dead.

190 realwest  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:16:23am

re: #146 lawhawk
Didja notice that the top six US Senators - in terms of net worth, are all DEMOCRATS - you know, the party of the poor, and the Republican at #7 has about HALF the net worth of the Senator Fienstien at #6.
Just absolutely disgraceful.

191 So?  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:16:53am

Let's see now: 700 billion in bailouts...another 15 billion for the auto industry... these figures are probably 5 times lower than the actual amounts doled out.

A pay raise for congress? Yeah, that makes sense. Keep up the good work.

192 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:16:56am
193 rexatosis  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:17:21am

I like how Congress waited until after the election to vote themselves a raise. Neat trick. Now none of the brain-dead voters that constantly re-elect these idiots (like Sen. Dodd, any and all Kennedys in Congress, etc.) will remember this by the time we get to 2010. Of course by then the giant monolith by Jupiter will have altered our conciousness (a gratuitious Sci-Fi reference untainted by Keanu Reeves.)

194 Steve  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:17:22am

re: #185 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

[Link: gunbroker.com...]

[Link: gunbroker.com...]

195 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:17:31am
196 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:17:32am

re: #181 pat

I seriously doubt that these corrupt halfwits care what the public thinks.

Most observant thing said so far on this thread. When we start actually understanding that these people in no way care anything about what they are doing and the effect it can have on us, then we can start working on how to solve these problems.

We still are playing good guys/bad guys.

They are all bad guys.

197 Duke6855  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:17:46am

re: #179 Stonemason

I believe in the markets though, and that ability is generally (key word) rewarded with pay - or anyway, there's a correlation. If you don't believe that fine - I won't ask you to accept it on faith.

198 subsailor68  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:17:50am

re: #185 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Got a Mossberg 12ga, and a Ruger P-series .40cal. I was hoping to grab a PC4 carbine since it uses the same magazine and ammo as the pistol. Seems there are a few of them still out there, just go to track them down and get one into the PRCA.

Ah! Very good point on the same magazine/ammo issue. My friends also made that comment. Thanks for reminding me!

199 loppyd  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:18:00am

OT: Michelle Malkin

No mercy for Jihad Johnny


If it’s December, it’s time for the Left to throw another shameless pity party for convicted American jihadist John Walker Lindh (aka Suleyman al-Faris, aka Abdul Hamid). Every Christmas season for the last four years, the Taliban accomplice and his parents have asked President Bush to pardon him. This country should save its tears and mercy for the defenders of freedom.

200 Occasional Reader  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:18:08am

re: #190 realwest

DEMOCRATS - you know, the party of the poor

Hey, enough of that sarcasm, mister! The Democrats are the party of hardworking, salt-of-the-Earth, Just Plain Folks, like George Soros and Alec Baldwin and Barbara Streisand.

201 Stonemason  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:18:14am

re: #175 Duke6855

Hence the reason for publicly funded campaigns only, no personal money at all, none, zero, zilch. That would allow a dishwasher to run for office, that would allow a stock broker to run for office and the decision would be made on actual ideas, not on slick packaging bought and paid for by donors that can not be tracked down.

202 Kragar  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:18:25am

re: #194 Steve

[Link: gunbroker.com...]

[Link: gunbroker.com...]

Wont have the cash on hand till january. Waiting till next year to defer any taxes.

203 Cap'n DOC  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:18:37am

re: #148 Walter L. Newton

LOL. I forgot about your proximity to slopes...

204 Occasional Reader  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:19:07am

re: #192 Iron Fist

I was addressing re: #85 Steve

. He apologized for using foul language. It was a joke.

No f***ng problem, you f***g [bleep]!

/Blago Universal Translator Off

205 Steve  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:19:07am

re: #155 Iron Fist

That sounds just like the profanity lecture I got from my DI in the AirForce.

206 gop_patriot  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:19:13am

re: #160 Shug

Caroline Kennedy doesn't even vote.

She'll make a GREAT senator

She doesn't vote? Really? Good grief.

207 realwest  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:19:14am

re: #155 Iron Fist Uh, Fist? To whom were you addressing that remark?!

208 DaddyG  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:19:35am

re: #193 rexatosis

I like how Congress waited until after the election to vote themselves a raise. Neat trick. Now none of the brain-dead voters that constantly re-elect these idiots (like Sen. Dodd, any and all Kennedys in Congress, etc.) will remember this by the time we get to 2010. Of course by then the giant monolith by Jupiter will have altered our conciousness (a gratuitious Sci-Fi reference untainted by Keanu Reeves.)


I thought Keanu Reeves played the monolith?! The acting style is so similar.

209 So?  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:19:58am

re: #182 Stonemason

Bingo

The sad thing is you have only bozos to choose from at all levels of government. It always come down to voting for the lesser bozo.

210 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:20:36am

re: #191 So?

Let's see now: 700 billion in bailouts...another 15 billion for the auto industry... these figures are probably 5 times lower than the actual amounts doled out.

A pay raise for congress? Yeah, that makes sense. Keep up the good work.

Gee, what do the bailouts and the collapse of the credit markets, real estate markets, and auto industry (like the steel industry before it and all the other manufacturing and industrial operations going forward) have in common with each other?

Congressional meddling distorting the markets and changing the calculus of risk of loss that spurs ever riskier behaviors.

211 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:20:40am

re: #207 realwest

Uh, Fist? To whom were you addressing that remark?!

That was post #85 from Steve.

212 Occasional Reader  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:20:41am

re: #195 buzzsawmonkey

A Plutocracy governed by a Mickey Mouse Congress doing the bare Minnie-mum?

No wonder the country is going to the dogs, when mice, not men, are in charge.

No, you're all mixed up. Our current Congress is a Plutocracy. But you could squeeze a better Congress out of Uranus.

213 Steve  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:20:46am

re: #202 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Keep looking because they always have something. Gunsamerica is also a good place to buy.

I purchased my DPMS 6.8spc from gunsbroker and had it in my hands with in a week.

214 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:20:51am

re: #203 Cap'n DOC

LOL. I forgot about your proximity to slopes...

But I really did spell the word wrong.

215 uncc_compman  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:20:54am

re: #1 Sharmuta

I think Congressional pay raises should be subject to electorate approval.

I'd like to take that one step further, I think that any politician's pay should be subject to the electorate approval. Maybe calculate it on the difference between the percentage of people who voted for them and their current approval rating.

216 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:21:15am
217 ROPMA  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:21:15am
218 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:21:17am

Franken +265.

Another crooked leach goes to DC.

219 Shug  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:21:25am

re: #199 loppyd


Release him, preferably near Camp Pendleton
Hold a big celebration party for him. Advertise it in the local paper. and on TV too.
Let everybody know when he gets out so the Marines can throw him a welcome party.

220 Steve  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:21:41am

re: #207 realwest

I believe that was me.

221 Stonemason  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:22:00am

re: #193 rexatosis

They did not vote themselves a raise, this is the yearly increase based on some COLA equation. This COLA was instituted to get around the recently ratified 27th amendment. The 27th says they can't benefit from raises they pass while in office, this negates that.

222 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:22:04am
223 gearhead  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:22:18am

It's 2.8% only if you don't include unlimited check-kiting privileges.

224 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:22:32am

re: #208 DaddyG

I thought Keanu Reeves played the monolith?! The acting style is so similar.

IMHO, the peak of his career was the two Bill & Ted movies. They're stupid, but I like 'em.

225 Lincolntf  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:22:48am

re: #138 Occasional Reader
re: #218 karmic_inquisitor

Unbelievable. I guess today will be one of those days when I can't watch the news. Hate those days.

226 Kragar  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:22:55am

re: #216 Iron Fist

What were you looking for? Have you tried Gunbroker? Sometimes they have the arcanist weapons. Of course the price may be sky high...

They've got 2 for about the price I expected. Just waiting on having the cash on hand.

227 Occasional Reader  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:22:55am

re: #222 buzzsawmonkey

Certainly the Founding Fathers didn't planet that way.

It Mars our constitutional order, if you ask me.

[lunch]

228 loppyd  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:23:07am

This should be entertaining...

Blagojevich to hold 2 p.m. news conference

229 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:23:16am

re: #218 karmic_inquisitor

Franken +265.

Another crooked leach goes to DC.

Every court need a court jester!

230 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:23:23am

re: #218 karmic_inquisitor

Franken +265.

Another crooked leach goes to DC.

Where the f*ck did they find all those votes?

231 jwb7605  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:23:33am

re: #217 ROPMA

OT

Obama's lapdog named Media.

Last frame: The Fairness Dog Train.
LOL!

232 Shug  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:23:41am

re: #228 loppyd

This should be entertaining...

Blagojevich to hold 2 p.m. news conference


I question the timing. Right after The Limbaugh show ends

233 loppyd  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:23:47am

re: #219 Shug

Release him, preferably near Camp Pendleton
Hold a big celebration party for him. Advertise it in the local paper. and on TV too.
Let everybody know when he gets out so the Marines can throw him a welcome party.

I like the cut of your jib...

234 Lincolntf  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:23:55am

Sorry about #138. Accidentally included.

235 loppyd  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:24:04am

re: #232 Shug

I question the timing. Right after The Limbaugh show ends

Not here!

236 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:24:19am

re: #228 loppyd

This should be entertaining...

Blagojevich to hold 2 p.m. news conference

I heard that he's going to complain about the wiretaps, that they were illegal.

237 No. Just, no.  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:24:29am

C'mon everyone, they need this money. Without it, they would have to eat at the same restaurants as the little people. Their wives would have to shop at the same stores as the seething masses. They would have to vacation side-by-side with us, and drive the same kinds of cars.

Let's pull it together and keep our congresspeople where they belong--on a desert isle above the rest of us.

Do I need a sarc tag? Here it is:

238 Shug  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:24:49am

re: #235 loppyd

Not here!


But the live show ends at 2 PM central.

239 loppyd  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:25:06am

re: #236 Ward Cleaver

I heard that he's going to complain about the wiretaps, that they were illegal.

Hard to be illegal if they were issued by a judge.

240 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:25:13am

re: #234 Lincolntf

Sorry about #138. Accidentally included.

WHAT!

241 Steve  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:25:23am

re: #226 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I know yu are waiting until afet the first of the year but Ruger.

242 Stonemason  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:25:33am

re: #197 Duke6855

I believe in markets too, to a point. There are many above me that should in no way be managing people, and that is the truth in many instances. Sometimes it is family, sometimes it is just length of service. There are more people who ,,made a few poor choices as adolescents (myself included) who would do very well in government. There are many that were at the right place at the right time that make lousy politicians.

243 loppyd  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:25:35am

re: #238 Shug

But the live show ends at 2 PM central.

Ahhh. I get it.

DUH! :~)

244 DaddyG  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:25:40am

re: #224 Ward Cleaver

IMHO, the peak of his career was the two Bill & Ted movies. They're stupid, but I like 'em.


Most Excellent

245 jwb7605  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:25:59am

re: #239 loppyd

Hard to be illegal if they were issued by a judge.

AND they have him on tape inviting wiretaps.

246 Kenneth  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:26:02am
247 So?  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:26:17am

re: #228 loppyd

This should be entertaining...

Blagojevich to hold 2 p.m. news conference

Will Bernie Madoff be the Opening Act?

248 Kragar  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:26:18am

re: #219 Shug

Release him, preferably near Camp Pendleton
Hold a big celebration party for him. Advertise it in the local paper. and on TV too.
Let everybody know when he gets out so the Marines can throw him a welcome party.

Similar to my plan, which would be in deep woods of West Virginia during hunting season. To keep with the Christmas season, I say let him loose in a jingle bell harness.

"Dashing thru the snow..."

249 realwest  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:27:02am

re: #211 Ward Cleaver
Ah, ok, Fist was just joking! I think! LOL!

250 Racer X  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:27:21am

re: #246 Kenneth

Do you think I'm sneezy?

Aah-chooo!

/boing!

251 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:27:32am

re: #247 So?

Will Bernie Madoff be the Opening Act?

No.

252 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:27:45am
253 BigMoo  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:28:01am

Ladies and Gentlemen, I 'proudly' present to you, America's "Ruling Class", where single-digit approval ratings still ensure job security, where gutting a nation's economy (CRA, Fannie, Freddie, Social Security) ensures job security, where holding us hostage to foreign energy sources ensures job security, where holding your Senate seat open for your son (Biden) ensures job security.
Hell yeah, they deserve a raise...it's takes HUGE gonads to take more money for the job they've done (to us-not for us).

254 Stonemason  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:28:09am

re: #237 EmmmieG

And the kids would have to go to public schools

255 realwest  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:28:16am

re: #229 Walter L. Newton
Hey Walter! I hope Franken does for Minnesota what he did for Air America.

256 uncc_compman  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:28:22am

re: #230 Ward Cleaver

Where the f*ck did they find all those votes?

In the trunk of Al Franken's car, and they're all legimate of course.

/

257 Desert Dog  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:28:33am

re: #246 Kenneth

Do you think I'm sneezy?

I guess I should stop with the Claritin then!

258 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:29:06am

re: #257 Desert Dog

I guess I should stop with the Claritin then!

Is that why snuff is making a comeback?

259 Right mind left  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:29:14am

re: #102 Sharmuta

I'd love to see this in the real world:

Hey boss- the other employees and I took a vote, and you have to pay us more even though we're less productive, but hey- it's only half the rate of the cost of living increase for social security benefits, so don't whine. Merry Christmas!

re: #111 CapeCoddah

Sharm, That is called a Union.

And, the UAW is very, very upset about the bailout, so will probably get the payoffs they lobbied for in the elections, etc...:

Auto Union Asks Obama To Reverse `Unfair' Bailout Terms
Last update: 12/19/2008 12:03:59 PM
DETROIT (AFP)--The United Auto Workers union said Friday it would try to reverse "unfair conditions" imposed in a government bailout package when President-elect Barack Obama takes office in January.
"While we appreciate that President (George W.) Bush has taken the emergency action needed to help America's auto companies weather the current financial crisis, we are disappointed that he has added unfair conditions singling out workers," UAW President Ron Gettelfinger said in a statement.
"We will work with the Obama administration and the new Congress to ensure that these unfair conditions are removed as we join in the coming months with all stakeholders to create a viable future for the US auto industry."
(END) Dow Jones Newswires

REAL (chump) CHANGE!

260 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:29:31am

re: #239 loppyd

Hard to be illegal if they were issued by a judge.

Hey, don't confuse him with facts.

261 Steve  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:30:05am

re: #246 Kenneth

Do you think I'm sneezy?

No just, Happy, Doc, Dopey, Sleepy, Grumpy, and Bashful

262 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:30:13am

re: #255 realwest

Hey Walter! I hope Franken does for Minnesota what he did for Air America.

He will have the support of a Democratic heavy house and congress. He can do no wrong. I don't agree with you. He'll come up smelling like roses every time. This swing in winning votes is proof of what I am saying.

263 Steve  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:30:37am

I will be back. Got to take my son to work.

264 tfc3rid  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:30:44am

re: #140 JacksonTn

If you think about it, from 2011 until Nov 2012, all Obama will be doing is campaigning for 2012...

265 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:31:23am

Cut defense spending, give limousine liberals more to power to steal your income with taxes, try to abolish right wing radio and a honest cable news network, destroy the 2nd amendment, charge the Republicans who tried to save Americans with violating prisoners of war rights to people who are not in any military but they kill civilians instead? Apparently we have allot of people who like to play with matches while pouring gasoline. As someone who saw the Twin Towers still smoking after 9/11, I will have no pity to the idiots who want an even worse repeat caused by their gross stupidity.

266 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:31:34am

Wanna hear a joke?

These two Irishman walked out of a bar.

267 FightingBack  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:31:41am

re: #264 tfc3rid

If you think about it, from 2011 until Nov 2012, all Obama will be doing is campaigning for 2012...

It starts now.

268 reine.de.tout  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:31:51am

re: #218 karmic_inquisitor

Franken +265.

Another crooked leach goes to DC.

Is that the final count?

269 realwest  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:31:52am

re: #252 Iron Fist
Yeah, I know bro', Ward Cleaver told me!

270 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:32:19am
271 Stonemason  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:32:30am

re: #266 Walter L. Newton

Wanna hear a joke?

These two Irishman walked out of a bar.

Hey...I resemble that statement!

272 jwb7605  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:32:30am

re: #266 Walter L. Newton

Wanna hear a joke?

These two Irishman walked out of a bar.

That's the most absurd thing I've heard all day.
UPding.

273 tfc3rid  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:32:45am

re: #199 loppyd

Hey Loppy... You know Obama will pardon him...

274 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:33:06am

re: #244 DaddyG

Most Excellent

"Sixty-nine, dudes!"

275 mattm  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:33:07am

I would say 9% is a little hugh for me. 0 is more like it.

276 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:33:23am
277 Shug  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:33:34am

re: #272 jwb7605

That's the most absurd thing I've heard all day.
UPding.

They must have emptied it of all its booze.

What's the difference between an Irish wedding and an Irish Wake?

one less drunk

278 mattm  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:33:35am

OT

Obama to reach out to Iran with special post

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

279 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:33:42am
280 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:33:51am

re: #266 Walter L. Newton

Wanna hear a joke?

These two Irishman walked out of a bar.

Was their last name "Kennedy"?

281 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:34:04am

re: #265 hous bin pharteen

Oooh, SCCA!

282 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:34:47am

re: #268 reine.de.tout

Is that the final count?

They're still counting.

283 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:34:49am
284 Kenneth  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:35:11am
285 subsailor68  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:36:09am

re: #280 Honorary Yooper

Was their last name "Kennedy"?

Looking at Teddy's face? I'd have to say, Nope.

286 Kragar  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:36:24am

re: #266 Walter L. Newton

Wanna hear a joke?

These two Irishman walked out of a bar.

Hear about the 2 Irish homosexuals?

Patrick Fitzhenry and Henry Fitzpatrick.

287 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:36:35am

re: #277 Shug

They must have emptied it of all its booze.

What's the difference between an Irish wedding and an Irish Wake?

one less drunk

What about the Irishman that designed the high-rise bomb shelter?

Or the Irishman that went to the dentist, to have wisdom teeth put in?

288 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:36:52am
289 realwest  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:37:29am

re: #279 Iron Fist
Huh? Did we (the government, I mean) bail out Air America?! Ya know the radio station with that premier drunken liar Randi Rhodes doing drive time commentary?

290 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:37:40am

re: #268 reine.de.tout

Is that the final count?

No. Running total via [Link: www.startribune.com...]

291 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:37:49am

re: #284 Kenneth

Merry Christmas Everybody!

Ha, a Batboy Christmas Card...

Well, that bit of phony bullshit saved that paper. Maybe Congress needs Franken.

292 lostlakehiker  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:38:13am

“As lawmakers make a big show of forcing auto executives to accept just $1 a year in salary, they are quietly raiding the vault for their own personal gain,” said Daniel O’Connell, chairman of The Senior Citizens League (TSCL), a non-partisan group. “This money would be much better spent helping the millions of seniors who are living below the poverty line and struggling to keep their heat on this winter.”

However, at 2.8 percent, the automatic raise that lawmakers receive is only half as large as the 2009 cost of living adjustment of Social Security recipients.


In other words, Congress is not giving itself much of a pay raise.
The money would not be better spent on helping seniors, etc.

Real help for seniors etc. will depend on Congress making good decisions. Good decisions result from having good men and women in Congress.

Congressional pay is too low. The responsibilities are immense. We need high-grade people in those jobs. In a free nation, the standard way you match good people up with important work is that you offer higher pay for the more important work, and then you pick and choose the best from among the many candidates who would like that higher pay.

If you have a bad police force, part of the reason might be that the only guys who will take the job are the ones who see the salary as just part of their compensation---they're looking for tips, the kind motorists will sometimes offer when pulled over. A professional pay scale helps bring in the better job candidates, and means that the guy who's thinking about supplementing his income has more to lose and less to gain.

Same with Congress. The possibilities for cadging tips here and there are enormous. But with an income of around 200K, the Congressman can afford to live in DC, keep his kids in school back in the home district, and still lay something away for a rainy day.

Krauthammer's essay U.S. House of Lords?on why Caroline should not be the junior Kennedy from New York (excuse me, Junior Senator) is right on point. There have to be any number of good men and women in New York, even among Democrats, who already know more about government than Caroline will ever learn, and who have done something with their lives beyond attend parties. If they could afford to run, and afford to win, we'd have a better pool of candidates for the office.

293 Dustyvet  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:38:58am

Now who didn't see that one coming eh?

294 jwb7605  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:39:15am

Current (big red lettered) Drudge Headline:
STICKER SHOCK: BUSH BILLIONS FOR AUTOS
FORD SAYS 'NO THANKS'

I just became a fan of Fords.

295 jcm  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:39:28am

The five horsemen.
White, conquest.
Red, war.
Black, famine.
Pale Green, death.
Pink, congress.

296 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:39:35am

re: #288 Iron Fist

I'm with you. I can't, for the life of me, understand why people are still voting Democrat. I can understand why black people might have voted for Obama, but why would anyone else? The man is the very definition of an empty suit.

Sorry, I can't keep the ball just in the Dems court anymore. All sides of the aisle have been responsible for their own crap.

297 Harry Tuttle  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:40:03am

Bend over people it ain't gonna get better until it gets worse.

Q is, how much worse has it got to get, cause it can get plenty worse.

You think they give the slightest crap what the people think about this? They are only there to gain and keep power and power means your private property and liberty which has all but been forfeited many years ago by the likes of Ted Kennedy and the whole crowd.

This is just the beginning of the end.

We are screwed.

298 foxsecret  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:40:08am

Why am I not surprised...

299 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:40:12am

re: #292 lostlakehiker

They get a boat load of allowances and per diems. Plenty of cash for the apartment in DC. They do OK, IMO.

300 Kenneth  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:40:54am

re: #291 Walter L. Newton

Whadday mean "phony"? Batboy & I are going bigfoot hunting with Sarah Palin next week.

301 realwest  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:41:04am

re: #294 jwb7605
Link? Please?

302 jcm  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:41:18am

re: #299 karmic_inquisitor

They get a boat load of allowances and per diems. Plenty of cash for the apartment in DC. They do OK, IMO.

Obama wants everyone to "volunteer."

How 'bout congress?

303 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:41:19am

re: #294 jwb7605

Current (big red lettered) Drudge Headline:
STICKER SHOCK: BUSH BILLIONS FOR AUTOS
FORD SAYS 'NO THANKS'

I just became a fan of Fords.

If I'm correct, aren't a ton of heavy duty vehicles made by Ford, and they already make a LARGE amount of their profits from government contracts?

304 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:41:23am

re: #294 jwb7605

Current (big red lettered) Drudge Headline:
STICKER SHOCK: BUSH BILLIONS FOR AUTOS
FORD SAYS 'NO THANKS'

I just became a fan of Fords.

Ford has around $19b in cash, and a $10b credit line.

305 Kragar  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:41:48am

Thousands join Hezbollah rally in Beirut against Gaza siege

BEIRUT (AFP) — Tens of thousands of people gathered in Beirut on Friday for a mass protest organised by Lebanon's Shiite Hezbollah movement against Israel's crippling blockade of the Gaza Strip.

Streets in the southern suburbs were cordoned off as demonstrators waving Palestinian flags and yellow Hezbollah flags poured into the Hezbollah stronghold as loudspeakers blasted out a speech by its chief, Hassan Nasrallah.

"We are are responsible, like all Arabs and Muslims, to completely liberate Palestine, from the river to the sea," Hezbollah's deputy head Naim Kassem told the crowd.

"The Palestinian cause is a just cause," he said from a platform on a main road in the area.

Bomb them. Seriously, bomb the fucking rallies already, for fucks sake.

306 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:42:00am

re: #300 Kenneth

Whadday mean "phony"? Batboy & I are going bigfoot hunting with Sarah Palin next week.

Right, and I'm dancing on the head of a pin with a bunch of angles on Christmas day.

307 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:42:09am

re: #306 Walter L. Newton

Right, and I'm dancing on the head of a pin with a bunch of angles on Christmas day.

ANGELS

308 jwb7605  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:42:11am

re: #301 realwest

Link? Please?

http://www.drudgereport.com/

309 ArmyWife  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:42:28am

re: #278 mattm

Perfect.

310 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:43:20am
311 MandyManners  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:44:00am

re: #283 buzzsawmonkey

Al Franken will be the first Senator in history to take the oath of office on a custard pie.

Not if Michael Moore is there: he'll steal it and eat it.

312 jwb7605  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:44:09am

re: #303 Walter L. Newton

re: #304 Ward Cleaver

The point is that Ford was offered bailout cash, and they are refusing it.

How they can do that with basically the same UAW contracts escapes me.

313 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:44:30am
314 realwest  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:44:37am

re: #303 Walter L. Newton
"If I'm correct, aren't a ton of heavy duty vehicles made by Ford, and they already make a LARGE amount of their profits from government contracts?".
I don't know about the government contracts, but, iirc, GM has the largest amount (dollar wise) of contracts but SO WHAT?
At least Ford isn't looking to you and me to bail them out of trouble.

315 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:44:48am

If we want real reform of the House of Reps, we should not have them meet in Washington.

They should convene 3 times a year for 2 weeks each time. Each time in a different city at their convention facilities. The rest of the time they can video conference for sub committee work from their districts.

That way, big costs are cut (because staff get local salaries, not DC salaries) and the Rep is in the district dealing with local issues rather than getting caught up in the DC culture.

Law making is an information based activity. We have had a revolution in information technology. We should be willing to put it to work.

316 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:45:00am

OT:
Russian ships enter Havana harbor.

Three of 'em - and one of them was busy polluting Gaia with thick black smoke.

Oh, and here's the kicker - to make room for berthing the three Russian warships, a ship used to ferry US agricultural aid was being moved out of the way.

Yeah, and we're the imperialists and warmongers.

317 Hard Right  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:45:46am

re: #105 Desert Dog

Pay cut? They need to REFUND last years salary back to the taxpayers for screwing things up so badly!

They should be thankful their salary isn't based on performance. They'd starve.

318 lawhawk  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:45:48am

re: #312 jwb7605

re: #304 Ward Cleaver

The point is that Ford was offered bailout cash, and they are refusing it.

How they can do that with basically the same UAW contracts escapes me.

It's called having the cash on hand to not need a bailout. The GM burn rate was much higher, and they had not only less cash on hand, but the GMAC exposure to the credit crisis hit them even harder.

319 Attaboid  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:46:28am

OT Internet problems Undersea cables...

320 sleepyone  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:46:39am

re: #125 avanti

Speaking of the auto industry, the news is that GM is selling off it's Heritage Auto collection to raise money. As a car collector, I find it sad that GM would sell off it"s history to make a few token dollars to impress Congress.. To me, it shows that GM's management are not car guys.
It's like the US auctioning off the Statue of Liberty to reduce the deficit, once it's gone, it's gone for ever.
As a Studebaker collector. I'm glad to say the company gave it's collection to the city of South Bend to save it and we have a first class Studebaker Museum. Info on buying some of GM's proud history here.

Pick over the bones.

I don't know if it's been mentioned but does anyone recall a movie (I think it was a made-for-TV thing) from either the late 70s or early 80s called Americathon? John Ritter plays the president of a broke USA set in a not too distant future. Chief Dan George plays a billionaire who loans the country some money to stay afloat and now he's calling the debt in. President Ritter decides to hold a telethon to pay back the loan. I don't remember the outcome but there were some funny moments, such as gasoline being either too expensive or non-existent and everyone jogs or bikes to work. Whole herds of people in velour jogging suits on the freeways!

Anyway, your statement about selling the Statue of Liberty reminded me of that flick for some reason. Sort of like selling ad space on the capitol dome or something.

321 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:47:25am
322 rexatosis  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:48:11am

re: #208 DaddyG

You owe the monolith an apology, it's performances have a much greater depth of emotion than Keanu's ;)

re: 221 Stonemason

Congress voted for the COLA to get around the 27th amendment and they did it in a manner so the announcements of their raises would come after the elections 'cuz they know the voters would not approve. They are slimy, sleezy, slippery, scumbucket drinking swine who are more self-centered than Miss Piggy on her worst day. They deserve to be heckled from the balcony then forced to eat Jeremy Priven's private stash of sushi.

323 UFO TOFU  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:48:14am

re: #306 Walter L. Newton

Speaking of head of a pin.

324 uncc_compman  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:48:53am

The thing that drives me nuts about all the "intent" drivel is this. If you are unable to follow the directions which they give you when casting a ballot, I really don't want you picking who is running the the government. If you screwup and pick the wrong guy on accident, there are ample chances to fix the mistake, or ask for a new ballot. There should be no excuses. Think people! Which is part of the problem, too many people don't think when voting or choosing who to vote for. Both left and right.

IMHO, there should be no such thing as a straight ticket, advertisements should be banned (I know, I know, Freedom of speech. I didn't say it would happen.), and there would be no mention of political party on the ballot at all. This way people would have to do at least a little amount of homework on who they are voting for. People spend more time picking out their flat screen TV's than who is running their government.

/rant off

325 Noam Chumpski  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:48:53am

Yeah! I tell ya, I just can't think of a more deserving, hard-working group of people. If they don't deserve a raise, then who does?

/does this post really require a tag?

326 jwb7605  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:49:18am

re: #319 Attaboid

OT Internet problems Undersea cables...

Comments are priceless.
I wonder if somebody will think of using satellites as a backup?
/

327 realwest  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:49:43am

re: #308 jwb7605
Thank you kindly!

328 jcm  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:49:59am

re: #325 Noam Chumpski

Yeah! I tell ya, I just can't think of a more deserving, hard-working group of people. If they don't deserve a raise, then who does?

/does this post really require a tag?

I got a raise for them, up on a rail and outta' town.

329 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:50:35am

re: #281 Ward Cleaver

Oooh, SCCA!

Cool! They do some really neat races.

330 realwest  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:51:03am

re: #313 Iron Fist
Even the Fairness Doctrine won't help 'em - unless it make THEM put a conservative on air!

331 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:51:14am

re: #319 Attaboid

OT Internet problems Undersea cables...

Looks like Asia is getting hit the hardest.

Region
Current Index
Avg. Response Time (ms)
Avg. Packet Loss (%)
Asia
56
385
15 %
Australia
77
209
2 %
Europe
76
229
6 %
North America
85
140
7 %
South America
85
143
0 %

332 gop_patriot  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:51:20am

re: #323 UFO TOFU

Speaking of head of a pin.

Speaking of a pinhead.

333 jcm  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:51:27am

re: #326 jwb7605

Comments are priceless.
I wonder if somebody will think of using satellites as a backup?
/

Satellites bandwidth is pretty spendy. Most are dedicated to other stuff already.

334 Dustyvet  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:51:36am

re: #326 jwb7605

Comments are priceless.
I wonder if somebody will think of using satellites as a backup?
/

Damn Sand crabs!

335 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:51:42am

re: #292 lostlakehiker

I was wrong on per diem. They no longer get one. Instead they submit their expenses for reimbursement -

[Link: www.thecapitol.net...]

336 Kragar  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:52:20am

re: #321 Iron Fist

With cluster bombs and napalm. Repeat as necessary until the Jihad is gone.

I was thinking a few dozen of these babies

337 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:52:21am

re: #326 jwb7605

Comments are priceless.
I wonder if somebody will think of using satellites as a backup?
/

It doesn't matter. Almost everything ends up using a network for some part of it's journey.

338 UFO TOFU  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:52:38am

re: #332 gop_patriot

Dammit, I knew I shouldn't have clicked that one.

339 So?  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:53:18am

Hey Congress has turned into an open thread.

340 gop_patriot  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:53:18am

re: #338 UFO TOFU

Dammit, I knew I shouldn't have clicked that one.

Sorry. lol

;)

341 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:53:19am
342 Taqyia2Me  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:53:21am

I support congress with a single digit. Guess which one!

343 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:54:04am

re: #326 jwb7605

Comments are priceless.
I wonder if somebody will think of using satellites as a backup?
/

Too much bandwidth for satellites. Undersea cables can transfer much more, and much larger packets of information in the same time span.

344 DaddyG  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:54:27am

re: #322 rexatosis

re: #208 DaddyG

You owe the monolith an apology, it's performances have a much greater depth of emotion than Keanu's ;)


True... true... it is full of stars.

345 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:54:31am

re: #281 Ward Cleaver

Yes. It is pretty funny. All my racing experience and driving skill and I end up in a coma for 2 months and have been going to rehab every week since after getting t-boned by an asshole in a pick up truck. I am just glad he hit me instead of some mom taking her kids home from school.

346 realwest  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:54:42am

re: #342 Taqyia2Me
Ooh, ooh, I know - pinky finger, right?!
:)

347 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:54:50am

And so it starts ...

Chicago Democratic Machine (eg Blago) To Challenge Legality of Wiretaps

Throw those out and Fitz can only charge him with "attempted nothing" and everyone gets to pretend nothing happened, including Obama / Emanuel.

348 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:55:08am

re: #342 Taqyia2Me

I support congress with a single digit. Guess which one!

So do I, after watching their fiascos of the past couple of months. And I give both the House and Senate Republicans and Democrats the same digit.

349 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:55:20am
350 So?  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:55:25am

re: #319 Attaboid

OT Internet problems Undersea cables...

There was a report on Drudge about Eygpt's internet cables being completely cut.

351 Dustyvet  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:56:00am

re: #342 Taqyia2Me

I support congress with a single digit. Guess which one!

I just give them the whole frigging flock!

352 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:56:16am

re: #341 taxfreekiller

Need another memo from the ink factory - we can't fill the order for Green Ink because we are trying to fill the previous order for Red Ink.

353 LGoPs  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:56:17am

What Congress really needs is a Raze...like in us Razing Congress...
/

354 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:56:20am
355 Hard Right  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:56:32am

It sickens me to think the psycho and tax cheat Franken is going to successfuly steal the election. Damn the stupid Minnesotans that voted for him!

356 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:56:33am

re: #347 karmic_inquisitor

And so it starts ...

Chicago Democratic Machine (eg Blago) To Challenge Legality of Wiretaps

Throw those out and Fitz can only charge him with "attempted nothing" and everyone gets to pretend nothing happened, including Obama / Emanuel.

Blago's lawyer is trying to get the wiretaps thrown out, but I think he'll lose. Fitz is very careful, and would've done everything in his power to make sure they were perfectly legal.

357 Taqyia2Me  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:56:38am

re: #346 realwest

2 more guesses left, RW!

358 realwest  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:56:40am

re: #345 hous bin pharteen
Geez, sorry to hear about that horrible accident. When did it happen?

359 So?  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:56:48am

1 hr. 4 min. to FLAGO BLAGO SHOW

360 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:57:33am

re: #349 taxfreekiller

Iran

Oil

$35.15 current, down last hour $1.15.

Did you hear that the World Bank thinks Putin may need a bailout if oil keeps falling? Unreal. Next thing we'll be helping Hugo Chavez.

361 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:58:03am

re: #354 Iron Fist

The Republicans certainly have their own problems, but I have yet to hear a Republican Senator calling the Troops Nazis because they hurt the tender feelings of the poor, misunderstood al Qaeda terrorists. It's not limited to just Durbin, nor is it only a product of BDS. Teddy Kennedy was giving PR tips and tricks to the fucking KGB during the Reagan Administation.

The Democrats have been siding with America's enemies since the death of JKF. And they don't really make any effort to hide it.

I understand what you are saying, but I don't care anymore. For me, it's no longer trying to place these idiots on some sort of scale and saying one is not as bad as another.

That's what has gotten us into this state of affairs. Accepting the lessor of two evils.

We have to stop that, NOW.

362 rawmuse  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:58:57am

re: #350 So?

There was a report on Drudge about Eygpt's internet cables being completely cut.

I blame Mr. Limpet.

363 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:59:24am
364 realwest  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:59:43am

re: #347 karmic_inquisitor
Indeed. From your link:

Federal prosecutors' case could be undermined - or at least greatly complicated - if Illinois lawmakers compel certain witnesses to testify. Following the Iran-Contra scandal of the 1980s, the convictions of Oliver North and John Poindexter were thrown out after the courts determined that the cases against them were built too much on testimony they gave to Congress under a promise of immunity.

The impeachment committee sent Fitzgerald a letter Thursday formally asking for information about people mentioned by pseudonyms in the criminal complaint, and requesting his guidance on who can be called to testify. Fitzgerald refused to comment.

When the panel returns Monday, its members hope to discuss any guidelines or restrictions Fitzgerald may place on them.

All get a "Get out of Jail Free" card!

365 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:59:52am
366 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 10:59:55am

re: #319 Attaboid

OT Internet problems Undersea cables...

And, this has happened before, 3 cables in the Med Sea, cut. With in the last two years.

367 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:00:01am
368 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:00:35am

This is GREAT NEWS!

You could not have asked for a more tin eared response from Congress.

Even though Americans are feeling hardship everywhere, the Congressional dems celebrated their victory by urinating in the voters faces. And wait until you get your tax bill next year!

The biggest difficulty is finding a new crop of Republican congressional candidates committed to smaller government and Six Sigma political integrity.

After two years of seeing the US building high wall on our sea coasts to prevent flooding by global warming, unlimited immigration for Somali pirates and Iran's upcoming nuclear test (June is my bet), US voters may finally heed the call and have a massive throw the bums out party in November 2010.

And we should broom the lot of the them.

369 realwest  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:01:22am

re: #355 Hard Right
I agree completely.

370 badbear  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:01:26am

re: #321 Iron Fist

With cluster bombs and napalm. Repeat as necessary until the Jihad is gone.

Exactly. What about "kill the enemy" have we forgotten since 1945?

371 hermit  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:01:34am

re: #361 Walter L. Newton

That's what has gotten us into this state of affairs. Accepting the lessor of two evils.

Well, now I get it!
I had no idea they were leasing evil -- that's why it's always fresh and new evil.
See if they had bought evil, it would be the same evil until they bought new evil.
It all makes sense now...

372 Harry Tuttle  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:01:46am

re: #361 Walter L. Newton

I understand what you are saying, but I don't care anymore. For me, it's no longer trying to place these idiots on some sort of scale and saying one is not as bad as another.

That's what has gotten us into this state of affairs. Accepting the lessor of two evils.

We have to stop that, NOW.

They are just two cheeks on the same smelly ass. Throw them all out.

373 vxbush  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:01:46am

re: #366 Walter L. Newton

And, this has happened before, 3 cables in the Med Sea, cut. With in the last two years.

Sorry, but I have a really hard time believing this is an accident. It just begs belief. And I don't have any left after the election.

374 LGoPs  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:02:05am

We've always been at a disadvantage to liberals in that since we're generally working and producing, we can't muster the effort to do 'million man marches'. However, if the economy keeps sinking and we lose our jobs (heaven forbid) I suggest we all use the time to march on Washington, tar and feather Congress and run them out of town on rails. Then we pick 535 numbers out of a hat and re-populate Congress. I would wager we'd do a better job...
/

375 realwest  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:02:12am

re: #357 Taqyia2Me
Nah, I know which one - the same one I gave 'em! LOL!

376 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:02:19am
377 Kragar  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:02:31am

re: #363 Iron Fist

That's blocked at work. Was it a MOAB? Personally, it wouldn't hurt my feelings if they used a few tactical nukes on them. Thin out the herd, so to speak.

Fuel Air Bomb

378 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:02:32am

re: #368 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

This is GREAT NEWS!

You could not have asked for a more tin eared response from Congress.

Even though Americans are feeling hardship everywhere, the Congressional dems celebrated their victory by urinating in the voters faces. And wait until you get your tax bill next year!

The biggest difficulty is finding a new crop of Republican congressional candidates committed to smaller government and Six Sigma political integrity.

After two years of seeing the US building high wall on our sea coasts to prevent flooding by global warming, unlimited immigration for Somali pirates and Iran's upcoming nuclear test (June is my bet), US voters may finally heed the call and have a massive throw the bums out party in November 2010.

And we should broom the lot of the them.

I favor a full diaper change in the House, almost all 435 of the twits. Unfortunately, we can only get rid of 1/3rd of the Senate then.

379 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:03:02am

re: #288 Iron Fist

I agree. I understand the black vote, but even I question that. I does not matter to me the color of someone skin, it is the character underneath that matters.

380 DaddyG  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:03:02am

re: #366 Walter L. Newton

And, this has happened before, 3 cables in the Med Sea, cut. With in the last two years.

All this back to back global warming and global cooling is stressing them.

/

381 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:03:11am

re: #368 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

...The biggest difficulty is finding a new crop of Republican congressional candidates committed to smaller government and Six Sigma political integrity...

Still under the impression that the right can work it out. Nope, there's no good guys left, and the lessor of two evils strategy has only increased the problem.

It's us against all of them.

382 No. Just, no.  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:03:13am

re: #307 Walter L. Newton
I don't see why you wouldn't want to dance with an angle. As long as it's acute one.

383 tfc3rid  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:03:16am

re: #378 Honorary Yooper

I favor a full diaper change in the House, almost all 435 of the twits. Unfortunately, we can only get rid of 1/3rd of the Senate then.

I'm as mad as hell and I would run...

384 hermit  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:03:49am

re: #376 buzzsawmonkey

GMTA; see #365.

yah and I f*ed it up, lessee would have fit my comment not lessor.
Intelligence IMF

385 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:04:03am

re: #371 hermit

Well, now I get it!
I had no idea they were leasing evil -- that's why it's always fresh and new evil.
See if they had bought evil, it would be the same evil until they bought new evil.
It all makes sense now...

I I used the wrong word, or misspelled, I'm sorry. My point is the same.

386 realwest  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:04:03am

Woops, LUNCH - hope you all have a GREAT DAY and that I get the chance to see you all down the road!

387 razorbacker  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:04:25am

re: #38 philosophus invidius

This doesn't bother me. These guys/gals would make a lot more money in the private sector, and the more underpaid they are in the public office, the more incentive they have to use their office to make up the difference in "other ways"--like Blagojevich.

Tell me, dear Lizard, just what the good Ms. Pelosi would do in the private sector?

Mr. Franks?

Mr. Jesse Jackson Jr.?

Mr. Reid?

Short of lobbying the government, that is. What marketable skill have these folks demonstated?

388 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:05:21am

re: #373 vxbush

Sorry, but I have a really hard time believing this is an accident. It just begs belief. And I don't have any left after the election.

That was my point. The last time the story went to ground REALLY fast.

389 badger1970  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:05:31am

Congress gets paid a goodly sum to avoid having the temptation to accept bribes- Mr. Collins, Social Science teacher Waupun High School circa 1988.

The human mind has unlimited needs and wants- Mr. Wuchler, Psychology teacher Waupun High School circa 1988

Greed has no boundaries. We're so screwed.

390 hermit  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:06:01am

re: #385 Walter L. Newton

Great point, too! I just send up the occasional spitball from the back of the class since I have little of salient value to offer. No offense to you or your point intended.

391 Buck  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:06:10am

Just announced:

No surprise, the remains of the toddler found in FL are Caylee Anthony.

Cause of death listed as homicide.

392 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:07:50am

re: #390 hermit

Great point, too! I just send up the occasional spitball from the back of the class since I have little of salient value to offer. No offense to you or your point intended.

I didn't know if you were just "funnin'" or not. No problem.

393 Honorary Yooper  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:07:53am

re: #383 tfc3rid

I'm as mad as hell and I would run...

If I had the money, I might likewise. I'm very pissed off, myself.

394 vxbush  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:07:57am

re: #388 Walter L. Newton

That was my point. The last time the story went to ground REALLY fast.

Why can't we call terrorism what it is? Or a coordinated attack by one of our lesser acquaintances, like, say, China?

395 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:07:59am
396 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:08:11am
397 DaddyG  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:08:12am

re: #387 razorbacker

Tell me, dear Lizard, just what the good Ms. Pelosi would do in the private sector?

Mr. Franks?

Mr. Jesse Jackson Jr.?

Mr. Reid?

Short of lobbying the government, that is. What marketable skill have these folks demonstated?

Given their core competencies I'm not sure I want to contemplate how they would make money outside of politics.

398 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:09:32am
399 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:10:31am
400 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:10:34am
401 Promethea  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:10:43am

re: #55 LGoPs

I think what we're developing here in America is a Mandarin class of bureaucrats...out of touch with the people and an insult to the term 'Public Servant'...

We're turning into France! No joke.

402 LGoPs  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:10:51am

re: #38 philosophus invidius

This doesn't bother me. These guys/gals would make a lot more money in the private sector, and the more underpaid they are in the public office, the more incentive they have to use their office to make up the difference in "other ways"--like Blagojevich.

These people would be insatiable regardless of what you raised their salary to. There would always be the drive to get more...
We need to figure out a way to figure out how to reinvigorate the term 'public servant'. It's beyond me how to reinstitute that...it comes from character and virtue...traits that are sadly at best viewed as quaint and at worst as being for chumps...
/

403 jwb7605  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:11:04am

Let's see:
JWF Post About Trig Palin Brings Out the Nirthers
followed by
Congress Gives Itself a Raise,
and this just in:
And Now, An Iranian Outreach Coordinator

I have to take a break.
See you later?

404 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:11:12am

re: #398 taxfreekiller

Senate:

10 Democrats worth a shit.

25 Republicans worth a shit.

Thats 35, they need to join the American People and form a third party,
"We the People can provide them with the needed 20 more for 65 total,
House:
100 Democrats worth a shit,
200 Republicans worth a shit.
The good ones, leave the two party cult to join up in the open, sort of make honest two party evil money cult members of a minority party of one, they can oppose U.S. all they want then.

"It is current a two party evil money cult".

Just take a look at McCain's lap dog performance after he got his Mr. Nice guy ass cleaned by the Chicago Commie Thug.

It's called a Plutocracy. Simple.

405 ArmyWife  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:11:16am

re: #391 Buck

Not a surprise, but horribly sad just the same.

406 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:12:39am

re: #336 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I was watching the Military Channel last night and saw the new M12 they are coming out with for infantry use in urban combat. It is, I think, a 12 guage automatic shotgun with grenade type rounds that go through a wall and then explode.

407 subsailor68  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:13:02am

re: #391 Buck

Just announced:

No surprise, the remains of the toddler found in FL are Caylee Anthony.

Cause of death listed as homicide.

So sad, but not surprising. After all, what were the odds that the remains of a little girl, close to the Anthony home, at about the right degree of decomposition, with similar hair color, were going to be those of some other little girl?

It's tragic.

408 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:13:08am
409 uncc_compman  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:13:23am

re: #361 Walter L. Newton

I understand what you are saying, but I don't care anymore. For me, it's no longer trying to place these idiots on some sort of scale and saying one is not as bad as another.

That's what has gotten us into this state of affairs. Accepting the lessor of two evils.

We have to stop that, NOW.

I agree, too many times have people voted AGAINST someone and not FOR someone.

410 Long Nics are Looonnng  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:13:34am

If they were actually good? I wouldn't think we could pay them enough. But they're not. So, eff 'em.

411 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:14:32am

re: #364 realwest

Indeed. From your link:

All get a "Get out of Jail Free" card!

It is interesting that the Democrats on that panel can pretty much compromise the Fitzgerald investigation by subpoena, thereby getting blago off the hook and thereby themselves if he has any dirt on them.

Gotta love Chicago politics.

412 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:15:49am
413 Long Nics are Looonnng  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:15:53am

re: #208 DaddyG

I thought Keanu Reeves played the monolith?! The acting style is so similar.

Not fair. What the character was supposed to be.

I wanted that kid to get eaten by those swarmy things.

414 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:16:14am

re: #410 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

If they were actually good? I wouldn't think we could pay them enough. But they're not. So, eff 'em.

This doesn't even go to good/bad or anything. Just the fact that they would do this AT ALL at this time is a fucking slap in the face of EVERY AMERICAN, period.

They are really heartless. Their raise, 4,700 is 1/3 of my yearly GROSS right now.

415 Promethea  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:16:37am

re: #109 Stonemason

Posted on last thread, boy I am slow!

re: #116 Opilio

It seems to me that the COLA raise they get was put in place to get around the constitutional amendment that prohibits the voting of ones-self a raise while in office. This is much like side-stepping the constitution to allow Lloyd Bentsen (SP?) and Hillary to become an appointed official whose salary was increased due to the vote of the party involved.

I don't think we should be allowing Congress to be side-stepping the constitution in this manner which is why I am a huge proponent of voting them all out and starting fresh.

In November's election, I voted against every single incumbent. I wish more people would do this. Unfortunately, I live in a one-party state, but maybe some lizards live in two-party areas.

416 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:16:42am
417 rawmuse  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:17:35am

Welcome to the new Kleptocracy.

418 ciaospirit  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:18:50am

re: #303 Walter L. Newton

If I'm correct, aren't a ton of heavy duty vehicles made by Ford, and they already make a LARGE amount of their profits from government contracts?

Americans love their big vehicles. And rightfully so.

The Best-Selling Cars and Trucks in the U.S.
Believe it or not, the Ford F-150 is still the best-selling vehicle in the U.S.

419 Basho  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:20:39am
With economy in shambles, Congress gets a raise.

!@#$ these clowns. This is the type of trash that turns people toward anarcho-capitalism... Hell, I'm starting to consider it.

420 Basho  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:23:23am

re: #406 hous bin pharteen

I was watching the Military Channel last night and saw the new M12 they are coming out with for infantry use in urban combat. It is, I think, a 12 guage automatic shotgun with grenade type rounds that go through a wall and then explode.

*drool*

421 Kenneth  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:23:41am

Would it be over-the-top to suggest a handful of congressmen be tarred and feathered? In a bipartisan spirit, a few from each party.

422 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:27:23am

re: #358 realwest
Thanks.
Last November. So I have not raced this year. I am pushing hard on the rehab to get back to work and make the next racing season.
I am great-full for the Doctors and medical personal who have helped so much.

423 HippieforLife  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:28:05am

Oh gag me! The lady Solis just gave a very nice speech in Spanish!

This is America, what the hell is wrong with these people?

424 badbear  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:28:30am

re: #398 taxfreekiller

Senate:

10 Democrats worth a shit.

25 Republicans worth a shit.

Thats 35, they need to join the American People and form a third party,
"We the People can provide them with the needed 20 more for 65 total,
House:
100 Democrats worth a shit,
200 Republicans worth a shit.
The good ones, leave the two party cult to join up in the open, sort of make honest two party evil money cult members of a minority party of one, they can oppose U.S. all they want then.

"It is current a two party evil money cult".

Just take a look at McCain's lap dog performance after he got his Mr. Nice guy ass cleaned by the Chicago Commie Thug.

There is no doubt that the third party / new party option is becoming more attractive daily. The good guys need a real stud to raise the standard and it can be off and rolling. Unfortunately I can't figure who that person could be yet.

425 reine.de.tout  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:28:51am

re: #391 Buck

Just announced:

No surprise, the remains of the toddler found in FL are Caylee Anthony.

Cause of death listed as homicide.

I'm glad they have made the identification.
But it is no surprise.

426 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 11:38:11am
427 shane  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 12:08:14pm

So what you are saying is, one of ten people is almost too stupid to remember to breath.

428 jamie  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 12:13:31pm

re: #426 Iron Fist

Yeah, I am kind of surprised by how solidly the black vote went for Obama. It was so close that they might have just as well said he got all of the black vote. There were very few black conservatives willing to put aside the "first black" thing and vote for the ideology that they support. Juliette did a real good post about that several months ago.

At the same time, it's worth noting that in 2006, neither Michael Steele in his MD Senate run, nor Lynn Swann in his PA GOV run fared particularly well in the African-American community. This tells me that party ID is a stronger force for a lot of blacks than race.

429 Dr. Shalit  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 12:32:34pm

...and Gov. Palin refused a $25,000 raise, a 20% increase from $125,000 to $150,000. With the cost of living in Alaska her salary is more like $85,000 in the lower 48 if that. Seems that Alaska taxpayers are getting a bargain, even with per diem payments.

-S-

430 littleO  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 12:33:44pm

Automatic Pay Raise!

431 littleO  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 1:16:56pm

re: #398 taxfreekiller

I don't believe a third party movement would have any staying power. What is needed is a restucturing of the GOP. There is, after all, a well reasoned party platform. All that is needed are motivated grass roots organizatios that can come together nationwide to kindle a rebirth of real conservativism.
Arguements can be gleaned from people like Buckley and M. Freidman.We have past politcians such as Gingrich and Lott. We have even a few younger pol's who really believe in conservative principles.
After all, You do not advance the poor if you devalue the currency faster than the productivity of the country. (thats the basis for supply side economics.The bubble cycling which was fostered by Greenspans' failed medling and the disastrous congressional miscreance-is that a word- has exploded the sub-prime bubble.)
Also, Socialism has never worked anywhere it has been tried. But, since socialist leaning subject matter is what more than a generation has been fed.( What do you think people like Obama's friend Bill Ayres have been involved in?)
These are just two topics that need to be unscrambled and make sure the American electorate are no longer deluded by Envy and Class warfare strategies of the left.
These are constuctive and do-able things. Yet, very hard things.

432 uptight  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 1:19:25pm

Can I suggest that Barney Frank gets a special extra payment for fucking up, not just the US economy, but the economies of every Western country too?

It normally takes socialists several decades to screw up successful empires, Barney has achieved so much in the name of left wing politics within just a couple of years.

433 Harlequin  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 1:22:40pm

Guess they're hoping to have more change in their pockets.

I spent some time in DC and may move there, and folks have told me, its another world economically. No matter what is going on in the US, DC is doing well because the government is -always- growing and building. These people don't even live anywhere affected by this crisis so is it any wonder they're doing this?

Hey, dems... how's that sweeping reform bull doing for you?

434 [deleted]  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 1:43:32pm
435 gringo69  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 1:46:56pm

Are we already living in anarchy? A raise? WTF? Ford refused bailout money and repubs better refuse their raise. It will go a long way politically speaking.

436 Kobyashi Maru  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 3:50:53pm

This won't be popular but living in DC and at home costs a ton. By limiting pay, we ensure that only rich people can serve. Nobody can keep two places and travel and survive on that salary. I'm not happy about the situation, but we kinda get what we pay for...

437 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 3:53:48pm

re: #426 Iron Fist

Sad, but true. They should wake up about him. They get the first black president who is a screw up? That is not good for them in the long run.
I hope he improves. It reminds me of the first Irish American. First we Irishmen had JFK, but ended up with The Drunk One as a higher-up in the Senate. The Mad Man form Chappaquiddick.

438 astronmr20  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 4:51:51pm

Fuck this shit.

Who's with me on not paying taxes anymore?

439 shiek al beif salami  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 5:35:42pm

I am late to this thread because I was out plowing two feet of global warming off my driveway and - - -

How the hell did they get such a high approval rating?
And the only raise they've earned is one where they hang by the neck from a gallows somewhere.

But I'm just upset because I expected I wouldn't need to shovel global warming anymore.

440 Ron Shaw  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 6:05:32pm

C'mon give 'em a break...lyin', cheatin', stealin', whinin', cryin', moanin' and groanin', teeth gnashin', horse beatin', dog kickin', lobbyist-butt kissin', hornswagglin', melingerin' and predtendin', tax money givin', constituent rapin', bad loan makin' and general short sheetin' of the citizenry is hard work worthy of proper compensation.

441 CJPro  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 8:40:32pm

I always tell my students that the people get the government they deserve. If their government stinks it is the fault of the electorate. I keep trying to vote the idiots out, but the pathetic majority mindlessly vote incumbent. There should be a single term limit for all offices, and a ban on the "Royalty" of certain political dynasties. Just look at all the progeny of the "Hero of Chappaquiddick" filling and attempting to fill offices.

442 Timbre  Fri, Dec 19, 2008 9:19:51pm

I am proud to say I voted last month against my incumbent Congressional Representative Conaway and Senator Kay Bailey Hutchison. I am sad to say my vote yielded poor results. Both were re-elected.

443 Smorgasbord  Sat, Dec 20, 2008 2:32:02am

You have it backwards. We give them a pay raise every time we vote them in. Here is how I would like them to be paid:

POLITICIANS (ONE PAY CHECK)
I want my politicians to get one paycheck, and I want it to be from me. The way it is now they can get it from too many sources, such as speaking engagements, book deals, etc. I want my politicians to be loyal to me first, not special interests who want some favors for themselves. No other source of income allowed except from prior investments, 401Ks, etc. They shouldn't be allowed to accept one penny from anybody.
The one exception would be they would get a percentage of the Gross National Product. It would be paid each January for the previous year. If the economy goes up, their bonus goes up. If the economy goes down, their bonus goes down. This way they have an incentive to get the economy going.

POLITICIANS (THEY PAY THEIR OWN BILLS)
Their paycheck would be several million dollars because they will pay all of their own expenses. They will pay the wages of their employees, air flights, and any perks they want. If they can operate efficiently they can keep any money left over.

POLITICIANS (NO GIFTS ALLOWED)
Even if we allow one person to give only $1.00, big corporations could still funnel thousands of dollars to politicians. So no gifts of any kind can be accepted by any politician. If another country or individual wants to give a gift to a politician, it will be the property of the United States of America and be kept by the USA.

POLITICIANS (AIR FLIGHTS WOULD BE SAFER)
Since the politicians will have to pay their own bills and fly on commercial planes (unless they charter a flight), I am guessing more money will be allocated to update outdated computers at our airports. Some airports are using computers so old they don’t make parts for them any more.
I am guessing the planes would be more secure. After the Lockerbie Scotland flight was blown up, a committee was set up to keep it from happening again. One woman on the committee lost her husband on the flight. The committee came up with many suggestions. Some of the suggestions were straightening the cockpit doors and airport screening of luggage.
The airline industry paid Al Gore to have the items rejected by congress. Israel has never had a hijacking since their major one years ago. They did all the things the committee suggested and more. Maybe we could learn from them, or hire them for security.

POLITICIANS (UNDER THE SAME REGULATIONS AS BUSINESSES)
The politicians should be under the same regulations as a business. They would have to withhold payroll taxes, meet OSHA requirements, file tons of needless paperwork, file impact reports, and whatever else a similar company has to do.
This will give the politicians an incentive to cut as much red tape out of operating a business as possible instead of increasing the bureaucracy to create jobs so they can get more votes. If the politician can operate efficiently they would have more money left over for themselves if they get only one paycheck.

444 jmcgachey  Sat, Dec 20, 2008 7:24:34am

re: #33 CapeCoddah

Good one! That's one conga line I'd like to see.

445 Christene  Sat, Dec 20, 2008 9:57:55am

Maybe this is the real reason the Military is walking our streets- Congress,Senate and Hussein will continue to live lavish lifestyles while screwing the tax payers so bad we will have no choice but to stand up against THEM!
Could someone PLEASE remind them THEY WORK FOR US?!?
And inform them that some Americans are working two & three jobs to put food on the table!
Really people, look how they abuse our tax dollars..this is ridiculous!

446 po8crg  Sat, Dec 20, 2008 11:02:19am

What happened to the 27th Amendment?

447 Muadib  Sat, Dec 20, 2008 6:52:39pm

Our government has lost all fear of us. We may loose our freedom.

448 martdod  Mon, Dec 22, 2008 9:14:42am

philosophus invidius, said>

"This doesn't bother me. These guys/gals would make a lot more money in the private sector, and the more underpaid they are in the public office, the more incentive they have to use their office to make up the difference in "other ways"--like Blagojevich."

If these people hadn't had the good fortune to be elected in the first place I doubt they could make more money in the private sector. Most of them seem to be imbeciles IMHO. The only thing that makes them attractive to the private sector is the political influence they have after leaving the Congress or Senate.

Just my two cents worth.


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 Frank says:

A lot of things wrong with society today are directly attributable to the fact that the people who make the laws are sexually maladjusted. -- from "I Seem To Be a Verb" by R. Buckminster Fuller, 1970.