Pray for snow.

HT jwb7605 last thread.

Obama’s Science Advisor

As Ron Bailey points out, he has been an activist on the ecological left and no friend of free markets. Perhaps more striking is his activism well beyond his own academic specialty, arguing, for instance, that scientists have a responsibility to advance the cause of the elimination of all nuclear weapons and seeking controls on population growth. And he didn’t say all this in the 1970s either—have a good look at the speech he delivered when he assumed the leadership of the AAAS in 2006. It describes a fundamentally activist liberal mentality about the very purpose of science and its place in our kind of society.

whither Gore?

He's blinding us with (faux) science!

The appointments of Harvard University physicist John Holdren as presidential science adviser and Oregon State University marine biologist Jane Lubchenco as head of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, which will be announced tomorrow, dismayed conservatives but heartened environmentalists and researchers.

This is what I live for.....to hearten environmentalists.....
Sheesh

Well.....that's going to cost us!

“The Bush administration has not been respectful of the science. But I think that’s not true of Republicans in general. I know it’s not.”

How do he know?

re: #5 LGoPs

This is what I live for.....to hearten environmentalists.....
Sheesh

Don't look them in the eye, don't challenge them...
Just hand over your wallet......

I'm sure his sugardaddy, Soros, is smiling.

Yeah! - punish America for China's sins.

re: #8 jcm

Don't look them in the eye, don't challenge them...
Just hand over your wallet......

. . . and bend over.

Personally, this does not bode well. Folks said they didn't want politics to dictate scientific policies while Bush was in office, but it seems they won't mind it in Obama's administration.

OH NO- the psycho global warming-climate change losers are in control! Our economy will be wrecked even more than they already did with the Fannie/Freddy mortgage debacle! The Socialist Commie Marxist Terrorists have gained control. We are doomed unless we fight back. Impeach!

re: #8 jcm

Don't look them in the eye, don't challenge them...
Just hand over your wallet......

You lifted that from British policy for homeowners when robbers do a home invasion, right?
My favorite part was that the homeowner should retreat to the bathroom and cower by the toilet.

Some of these people are pure crackpots. Being smart does not immunize one from being a nut. Chu in particular is known for his crazy thinking.

Harvard has a physics professor? Who knew.

In October, Lubchenco told the Associated Press that she believed public attitudes on climate change were shifting,

Public attitudes have nothing to do with the science. All public attitiude measures is the effectiveness of the media's propoganda campaign......

Like lemmings following Al Gore over a cliff, these two are pushing global warming aka climate change to force major economic shifts in distribution of wealth and the international economy.

The science is anything but settled, and there's a big bright orb in the sky that begs to differ over manmade causation of global warming. It's called the sun. There's also evidence that COx is a lagging indicator of global warming, not a leading indicator; and the so called experts continue to ignore the single biggest greenhouse gas - water vapor. Problem is that they can't figure out how to tax water vapor - yet. They've hit upon COx to tax, despite the fact that exhaling COx is a natural byproduct of respiration. Plants benefit from COx, since they turn it into 0² that much of the life on this planet needs to exist.

Of course I'm respectful of the science, but that doesn't include agenda driven
factoids and slanted studies by the most ardently activist pushers of anthropogenic global warming.

-Gallatin

re: #17 LGoPs

In October, Lubchenco told the Associated Press that she believed public attitudes on climate change were shifting,

This is priceless....didn't these same idjits predict climate shift in the wrong direction?!
BWahahahaha!

re: #7 J.D.

How do he know?

How can you respect a science that is all lies? What moon-bat planet is she from?

Can you say depression?

In more ways than one. I just had a flashback to East Germany in the eighties.

Too often, education is just too another form of ignorance, and not necessarily the good kind.

I do have a sneaking suspicion that at the heart of this GW craze, there is a committed band of socialists/communists. They couldn't beat us in the Cold War so they have morphed into a different manifestation - but the intent is the same - to bring America economically to her knees. And they surround themselves with a lot of useful idiots.....

Oh, and Holdren wants zero-population growth - because he's an adherent to the Paul Erlich hypothesis of the population bomb. How's he going to manage that?

Well, if you reduce the wealth available to a nation, destroy the economy, you'll see massive population loss.

These are the people advising Obama.

I'm sitting here in Washington state with temperatures at my house around 15 degrees (about 15-20 lower than average) last night, waiting for an unseasonably large snow fall to hit tonight and they're going to tell me that it's getting warmer?

Screw them and the fake science they rode in on.

re: #14 mean Gene

You lifted that from British policy for homeowners when robbers do a home invasion, right?
My favorite part was that the homeowner should retreat to the bathroom and cower by the toilet.

Yeah......

I have a different policy for robbers....

re: #22 x-wing

At least the East Germans had somewhere to escape to. There is nowhere for us to emigrate/escape to now. It is war.

Warning: The cultists are out knocking on doors, attempting to guilt people into signing petitions forcing the EPA to designate CO2 as a pollutant.
CO2 - the stuff trees need.

Interesting that the more man made global warming is debunked and less people are buying into it the harder these guys want to push through social controls based on the big lie... it seems more like the agenda is hamstring America and screw development in Africa more than address the same sort of "problems" in China/Russia etc etc...

So, will this be combined with a push to outlaw genetically modified crops?
Because then we really will have shortages.

This is not good.

I suppose we can shelve any hope that the economy improves anytime soon. IF Obama signs the Kyoto Accords, the Greater Depression which is coming soon will morph into the Greatest Depression.

I wonder if the messiahs inaugaration will be closed down to snow or freezing weather. Can't take him seriously anyway.

In October, Lubchenco told the Associated Press that she believed public attitudes on climate change were shifting, adding: “The Bush administration has not been respectful of the science. But I think that’s not true of Republicans in general. I know it’s not.”

Stupid shit. Wonder if they call the white frozen crap falling all over the northern part of this country global warming. If so, they can come and shovel it off of my sidewalk.

Politics has absolutely no place in science if science is to remain objective and deal just with the facts. Politicize science and you have the crazies dictating politically correct versions of reality.

re: #25 lawhawk

Thirty years on, we are still waiting for the fulfillment of the Prophet Erlich's predictions. If he was a t.v. weatherman, the station would have canned him long ago.

“The Bush administration has not been respectful of the science. But I think that’s not true of Republicans in general. I know it’s not.”

Just wait until she runs into Sen. Inhofe. He is going to beat these people like rented mules.

re: #26 WitchDoctor

I'm sitting here in Washington state with temperatures at my house around 15 degrees (about 15-20 lower than average) last night, waiting for an unseasonably large snow fall to hit tonight and they're going to tell me that it's getting warmer?

Screw them and the fake science they rode in on.

My sister is a global warming idiot believer and is screeming about being stuck home because of the snow. All I could tell her was "Global Warming" Boy was she pissed at me.

re: #29 FrogMarch

Warning: The cultists are out knocking on doors, attempting to guilt people into signing petitions forcing the EPA to designate CO2 as a pollutant.
CO2 - the stuff trees need.

Have a petition to ban Dihydrogen monoxide handy, they have to sign yours first........

Then explain they are a moron.

Rumors of the Death of Arctic Sea Ice Greatly Exaggerated/Pajamas Media

Maybe these scientists will encourage the use of the scientific method in climate research. That would be a big change. The current approach is to ask oneself "what conclusion would get me the most press coverage and thus more funding?" When that question is answered, one then designs a climate model on a computer to support that conclusion and then presents it.

When successive years of data undermine the original findings, one then screams that their critics are "deniers" and that what we are witnessing is "Climate Change" which is even worse than warming (which peaked 10 years ago). Then insist that the computer you had was not expensive enough and that you need a new one and a staff to run it.

Reiterate.

re: #38 jcm

Have a petition to ban Dihydrogen monoxide handy, they have to sign yours first........

Then explain they are a moron.

That is priceless and a great idea to boot.

re: #21 Cathypop

How can you respect a science that is all lies? What moon-bat planet is she from?

I don't know a single Republican who doesn't at least strongly question "global warming". That's all. Maybe they will show up here? ? ?

The economy is racing to the dump. We are borrowing money from places like China & 'Bailing out" what should be market driven industries & the UAW.
BHO wants to populate his administartion with people who are committed to this Global Warming lunacy & forcing the greening of the economy no matter how many lose their jobs over it.

We had about six inches of global warming fall here in Salt Lake last night. And, as my uncle would put it, it's butt-puckering cold.

re: #24 LGoPs

I do have a sneaking suspicion that at the heart of this GW craze, there is a committed band of socialists/communists. They couldn't beat us in the Cold War so they have morphed into a different manifestation - but the intent is the same - to bring America economically to her knees. And they surround themselves with a lot of useful idiots.....

Oh, you know it.

Don't humans emit CO2 as a result of exhaling? If the libtards just did their part and stopped breathing there wouldn't be any crisis....
//////

Does anyone remember the "Global Cooling" alarmists in the 70's?

What happened to them and their "science"?

re: #2 jcm

HT jwb7605 last thread.

Obama’s Science Advisor

THANKS!

re: #25 lawhawk

Chu is also an anti-capitalist, controlled birth, internationalist. His global warming pronunciations are decidedly unscientific and startlingly pedestrian, much like Gore's.

re: #29 FrogMarch

Warning: The cultists are out knocking on doors, attempting to guilt people into signing petitions forcing the EPA to designate CO2 as a pollutant.
CO2 - the stuff trees need.

I hope they knock on my door.

re: #48 jwb7605

THANKS!

I stole it and put it up at #2....
Did give you a HT!

re: #33 venezuela lover

I wonder if the messiahs inaugaration will be closed down to snow or freezing weather. Can't take him seriously anyway.

Depends largely on whether Algore shows up :-)

re: #44 Fat Jolly Penguin

We had about six inches of global warming fall here in Salt Lake last night. And, as my uncle would put it, it's butt-puckering cold.

We had roughly 8 hit us on Cape Cod. I love Global warming!

re: #44 Fat Jolly Penguin

Same here a few hundred miles north of you. Damn global warming is piling up faster than I can plow it from the driveway and the temp hasn't moved above 20 for the last two weeks.

Global warming my frozen butt.

This could work in in the other way too. If there is congressional hearing on awg, then experts who opose the junk science will get their day in court, so to speak, and that may make an impact

re: #51 jcm

I stole it and put it up at #2....
Did give you a HT!

That's why I said thanks!
I don't remember that happening before.

How does one intentionally submit a link?

From IBD:

“Every billion dollars invested in wind farms creates some 3,350 jobs — nearly four times the 870 jobs created with a similar investment in coal-fired power plants,” said Earth Policy Institute President Lester Brown.

Weatherizing homes is “the most labor-intensive” of energy investments, creating 6,750 jobs per $1 billion, Brown said.

/that's a minimum of $148,000 per job created, your tax dollars on Obama

I think from now on whenever there is a snowstorm predicted, I'm going to "inches of snow" as "inches of global warming" and see how many people I piss off at work? Thanks Lizards, this should make for an interesting winter on the Cape.

re: #32 Jetpilot1101

IF Obama signs the Kyoto Accords, the Greater Depression which is coming soon will morph into the Greatest Depression.

I believe The Goracle signed the thing back in 1998, but it's never been submitted to the Senate for ratification. Is the incoming Senate collectively stupid enough to ratify it? Probably not.

re: #25 lawhawk

Oh, and Holdren wants zero-population growth - because he's an adherent to the Paul Erlich hypothesis of the population bomb. How's he going to manage that?

Well, if you reduce the wealth available to a nation, destroy the economy, you'll see massive population loss.

These are the people advising Obama.

"Planetwad".

*snicker*

re: #25 lawhawk

Oh, and Holdren wants zero-population growth - because he's an adherent to the Paul Erlich hypothesis of the population bomb. How's he going to manage that?

Well, if you reduce the wealth available to a nation, destroy the economy, you'll see massive population loss.

These are the people advising Obama.

Actually I think the opposite is true. Industrialized nations with exetremely good economies tend to have the lowest population growth versus nations with very, very poor economies. Just a guess on my part but I've suspected that when things are super well (modern Japan) people don't feel a need for large families to continue in the gene pool but when then things are always dicey continuance may depend on having lots more kids. Add in cultural biases built on survival needs that can only be eroded over time spent in affluence and viola - some groups have huge expansions while others stabilize and sometimes contract. If the average nuclear family in the US had to start a victory garden and hunt to supplement food ironically there will probably be a rise in births and multi-gen households to increase long term family survival odds.

Check the colors of Global Warming for Western Washington!

Where did I pack those heated long johns?

re: #47 Jetpilot1101

Does anyone remember the "Global Cooling" alarmists in the 70's?

What happened to them and their "science"?

Sure I remember - it was all chicken little and it flopped. And this GW shit is the one instance in all of recorded history that the libtards have learned from experience and applied the lessons from Global Cooling.....i.e., whether it's hot or cold it's still Global Warming. This was the premise of the propoganda piece The Day After Tomorrow, wasn't it......Heads I win, Tails you lose......brilliant technicque if you're on their side......bastards.

This means I have to fire up the old computer and dig up all those links to AGW debate sites.

Going to be a busy day.

re: #59 Opilio

I believe The Goracle signed the thing back in 1998, but it's never been submitted to the Senate for ratification. Is the incoming Senate collectively stupid enough to ratify it? Probably not.

Well, they were collectively stupid enough to allow the treasury to print money like it was toilet paper so I wouldn't put this past them.

I am THIS close to being named to help this position. I sent a detailed letter to The Messiah
I stated that I had definitively discovered that Climat Change IS real!
I also stated that I have scientifically found a fix for it,, WORLDWIDE

I called my discovery SSFW for the following reasons!

Unlike other scientists who have claimed it takes years, I have determined that CLIMATE CHANGE occurs every 3 months or so!

I have titled my theory SSFW (Spring Summer Fall Winter)

The fix for this is as follows

Spring) if it is too rainy for you, stay indoors and wait about 3 months
Summer)if it is too hot for you, stay indoors and wait about 3 months
Fall) if it is too cool for you, stay indoors and wait about 3 months
Winter) if it is too cold for you, stay indoors and wait about 3 months

I expect my gov't grant aproved any time now

re: #17 LGoPs

Public attitudes have nothing to do with the science. All public attitiude measures is the effectiveness of the media's propoganda campaign......

That's exactly right! Feed the public a line of BS, then poll the public to see how well they've accepted the BS and use THAT as proof as to the validity of the BS. It's cynical to the point of being Orwellian.

Perhaps we are experiencing climate change, but it's the height of arrogance to think that it's man-made. This is "junk science" at it's worst and anti-Capitalist at it's core. Sure, Obama's made some pretty "centrist" appointments, but I fear this signals a clear tilt to the Left. Color me unsurprised.

re: #56 jwb7605

That's why I said thanks!
I don't remember that happening before.

How does one intentionally submit a link?

Click on the post number, that will open the post in it's own window, then you can use that link.

re: #50 MandyManners

I hope they knock on my door.

ooo me too.

When he came to my door (a few weeks ago - we get this stuff ALL the time) I looked down to see if any of my neighbors had signed. Sure enough, a few had. But the sheet was mostly empty of signatures. I told him "uh - no, but good luck." Sadly, he probably did well that day.

re: #62 jcm

Check the colors of Global Warming for Western Washington!

Where did I pack those heated long johns?

BLIZZARD warning?
wow.

"Arctic Ice Shrinking. Women and Blacks Hardest Hit"

re: #57 Killian Bundy

Funny, but I guess I should get $148,000 for weatherizing my own home... having spent the week installing additional insulation in the attic and having had a new insulated garage door installed.

There was a time when that was simply called home improvement. Now, everything has a green spin - regardless of whether it's green or even cost effective. Additional insulation is a good idea, so is weatherizing homes - which is part of regular maintenance and upkeep. It's not creating new jobs, just an excuse of claiming that it does so.

re: #59 Opilio

I believe The Goracle signed the thing back in 1998, but it's never been submitted to the Senate for ratification. Is the incoming Senate collectively stupid enough to ratify it? Probably not.

Oh, yes it is stupid enough.

re: #38 jcm

Good idea. I should keep a faux petition handy when the Sierra club stops by.

re: #29 FrogMarch

Warning: The cultists are out knocking on doors, attempting to guilt people into signing petitions forcing the EPA to designate CO2 as a pollutant.
CO2 - the stuff trees need.

Yeah, well the supreme court recently ruled that it is in the EPAs juristiction if they care to do so. They've been getting major blowback from ranchers and hog farmers over their leaked plan to takx methane emissions from the animals - to the point that they've denied they're seriously considering it. But they are and when they try it will be torches and pitchforks time.

Notice what's happening. The "elite" east coast universities have trained up this whole generation of financial people (govt and wall street) who have decided to eliminate the resources of Americans making a decent living. Their approaches have depleted privately saved retirement accounts and rumors fly that their policy is to confiscate all or part of the remainder.

Commentators like Dennis Prager continually to this day say that the science and engineering departments of these universities are not involved in the leftist socialist approach of the other university departments. I don't think that's right. This global warming/climate change effort to confiscate more payment is centered in those science and engineering departments. Regardless of the "errors" in data that are continually found, these departments have not revised their "beliefs" and will not change their statements in fear of losing massive amounts of federal research funding in all fields. According to them, the discussion is over and only deniers are not on board with tanking the American economy to make things more fair, according to a socialist definition.

PS A ray of sunshine in all this tanking is the depletion of revenue that is paid to the (unfriendly) oil producing countries. The plans to bring down the U.S. may take more time, giving us more time to get on a better footing.

re: #47 Jetpilot1101

Does anyone remember the "Global Cooling" alarmists in the 70's?

What happened to them and their "science"?

They found that hole in the Ozone. But then that started shrinking, and that gave birth to ManBearPig.

/I wish their batteries would soon run out.

re: #62 jcm

Check the colors of Global Warming for Western Washington!

Where did I pack those heated long johns?

So glad I don't live there anymore.

The list:

Among the things that scientists have established using scientific research:

Fish catches increasing
Fish catches decreasing

Ice sheets building
Ice sheets melting

More clouds
Fewer clouds

lakes shrinking
lakes growing

more insects
fewer insects

The list goes on and on and on. Nothing like offering predictive theories by covering all possible outcomes.

/Nice science you got there!

re: #47 Jetpilot1101

These guys are slowly figuring out what is going on. Global cooling-warming sort of bounces around from the top of the earth to the bottom of the earth over the course of a year. So in the 1970s, they discovered the cold part. Now they have discovered the warm part. In another thirty years they will discover the cold/warm moving north and south part. And finally, in 2070, someone will connect dots with cooling/warm/top/bottom/calendar year.

re: #69 FrogMarch

ooo me too.

When he came to my door (a few weeks ago - we get this stuff ALL the time) I looked down to see if any of my neighbors had signed. Sure enough, a few had. But the sheet was mostly empty of signatures. I told him "uh - no, but good luck." Sadly, he probably did well that day.

You should've given him the url for LGF.

re: #61 anotherindyfilmguy

I understand your point, but I'm talking about the Mugabe and Chavez way - destroying the economy results in death and misery and the migration of those peoples to other locales, if they can afford to get away. The rest die of starvation, neglect and rampant disease...

re: #55 Walter L. Newton

If they invite them.

Global Warming is such a crock! Anyone who knows anything in this field (and is being honest) has to admit that GW is terrible science and WORSE geology! But then again, hardly any geologists are on the GW lists - they tend to be on the denier lists - and I am one!

re: #41 Jetpilot1101

That is priceless and a great idea to boot.

Penn and Teller did it as part of the Bullshit series episode about the global warming movement...

India and China are rapidly building an infrastructure that burns fossil fuels and emits GW gases much more than America.

America could could completely eliminate it's carbon footprint today. We could go totally dark and turn everything off; go back to the dark ages in one day. And within a few years India and China will have more than made up for our carbon footprint.

So go ahead - buy your 8 pack of fluorescent light bulbs. It will make you feel good. And that is what the GW scam is all about.

re: #47 Jetpilot1101

Does anyone remember the "Global Cooling" alarmists in the 70's?

What happened to them and their "science"?

Hansen at NASA had a big piece of the cooling hysteria, now he's a big warming dude.

He should have his degree's revoked.

The pendulum swings again. The Bush administration ignored science in favor of politics, Obama, might favor science over politics too much.

Yes, it would be great to act on climate change, clean up the environment, switch to wind,solar and nuclear form a scientific prospective, but....
Good science input is important, but we need the bean counters and the rest to assess the cost. So far, his science team picks are top notch guys respected by their peers, especially Chu.

re: #62 jcm

Check the colors of Global Warming for Western Washington!

Where did I pack those heated long johns?

brrrr. Costal coldness is bone chilling.
I visited Port Angles/Sequim a few years ago in the summer. I loved it. drove thru Forks and said "get the fork outa here."

re: #79 karmic_inquisitor

The list:

GREAT SITE. That's one of my all-time favorites. I bought his books, and I'm still working through them (along with about five others, alas).

re: #80 shiek al beif salami

These guys are slowly figuring out what is going on. Global cooling-warming sort of bounces around from the top of the earth to the bottom of the earth over the course of a year. So in the 1970s, they discovered the cold part. Now they have discovered the warm part. In another thirty years they will discover the cold/warm moving north and south part. And finally, in 2070, someone will connect dots with cooling/warm/top/bottom/calendar year.

It's more insidious than that. I personally have discovered that there is an interesting correlation between it warming up and the appearance of the big orange orb in the sky. I haven't been able to scientifically verify it, mainly because when the orange orb disappears, I can't see well enough to take notes.........
*rolling eyes*

re: #40 karmic_inquisitor

Maybe these scientists will encourage the use of the scientific method in climate research. That would be a big change. The current approach is to ask oneself "what conclusion would get me the most press coverage and thus more funding?" When that question is answered, one then designs a climate model on a computer to support that conclusion and then presents it.

When successive years of data undermine the original findings, one then screams that their critics are "deniers" and that what we are witnessing is "Climate Change" which is even worse than warming (which peaked 10 years ago). Then insist that the computer you had was not expensive enough and that you need a new one and a staff to run it.

Reiterate.

The hockey stick disproved. NASA falsifying data... It's too far gone. They are going for the splash headlines and then not publicizing the corrections. The MSM is taking too long to crash. They are still running the agenda for too many people.

re: #86 Racer X

India and China are rapidly building an infrastructure that burns fossil fuels and emits GW gases much more than America.

America could could completely eliminate it's carbon footprint today. We could go totally dark and turn everything off; go back to the dark ages in one day. And within a few years India and China will have more than made up for our carbon footprint.

So go ahead - buy your 8 pack of fluorescent light bulbs. It will make you feel good. And that is what the GW scam is all about.

China is already the biggest producer of CO₂. When that happened the AGW moralists shifted the measure to be per capita. The Chinese will catch us there in about 4 years. Still exempt from Kyoto.

re: #86 Racer X

My carbon footprint is already so small my butt-cheeks leave tracks when I walk.

re: #87 jcm

Hansen at NASA had a big piece of the cooling hysteria, now he's a big warming dude.

He should have his degree's revoked.

How about a size 12 steel toe up his a$$?

Elections have consequences -
The Eco-Socialists have gained full control of the US Fed government.
What is left of the "free" market will be assaulted on all fronts.
Individual liberty will be the primary target of these Radicals.
Freedom to own private property, live where and how an individual chooses has long been the object of these Leftists HATRED.
"AGW" is just the vehicle to destroy the US, the US Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

The lunatics are now in charge of the asylum! You wait, more taxes on the way to stop climate change. Gaaaaaah! Spit!

re: #85 anotherindyfilmguy

Penn and Teller did it as part of the Bullshit series episode about the global warming movement...

It started with a high school's kid science project. Big display and thing on Dihydrogen monoxide.... except his science project wasn't on that it was how gullible people will sign anything if it's pitched right.

Which is the whole point of GW. They are pitching socialism as the cure and people are buying.

Think about another field of scientific inquiry. If the empirical evidence kept refuting your assumptions, would the proper response be that, 'I am correct , the science is settled & the debate is over."
For the advocate of Global Warming , that is just what happens which proves that the whole movement is political.

re: #25 lawhawk

Oh, and Holdren wants zero-population growth - because he's an adherent to the Paul Erlich hypothesis of the population bomb. How's he going to manage that?

Well, if you reduce the wealth available to a nation, destroy the economy, you'll see massive population loss.

These are the people advising Obama.

Don't forget National Health Care could be used as "Soft Eugenics" (that's my quote I don't know how else to describe it) by government bureaucrats dictating who gets what treatment, for how long, and at what price THEY are willing to pay.

President-elect Barack Obama has selected two of the nation’s most prominent scientific advocates for a vigorous response to climate change to serve in his administration’s top ranks, according to sources, sending the strongest signal yet that he will reverse Bush administration policies on energy and global warming.

You can just smell the propaganda on this one.

re: #89 FrogMarch

brrrr. Costal coldness is bone chilling.
I visited Port Angles/Sequim a few years ago in the summer. I loved it. drove thru Forks and said "get the fork outa here."

Forks is great.... if you stand a inch of rain a day.... for 300 days.

re: #79 karmic_inquisitor

That's a keeper! lol!

re: #47 Jetpilot1101

Does anyone remember the "Global Cooling" alarmists in the 70's?

What happened to them and their "science"?

I do indeed!

They either all froze to death in that ice age, or drowned because of Algorewarming ...

re: #94 shiek al beif salami

My carbon footprint is already so small my butt-cheeks leave tracks when I walk.

Pic?

No, wait, don't.

re: #88 avanti
Lets see you put up a wind farm or solar panel array! NIMBY! These are the same people who fly in private jets and tell us 'proles what is best. BULLSHIT! Lets also see you move commodities without semi trucks or diesel trains. Mass transit also works well when it snows in Seattle and Portland.

re: #100 Idle Drifter

You can just smell the propaganda on this one.

I OR they passed a "assisted suicide" bill a decade ago. Patients have gotta public health coverage for suicide meds, but not cancer treatments.

We can see where that one is headed.

So when will CO2 be banned from soda/pop and beer because of glowarm?

karmic_inquisitor (#79),

The list:

Among the things that scientists have established using scientific research:

Fish catches increasing
Fish catches decreasing

Ice sheets building
Ice sheets melting

More clouds
Fewer clouds

lakes shrinking
lakes growing

more insects
fewer insects

The list goes on and on and on. Nothing like offering predictive theories by covering all possible outcomes.

/Nice science you got there!

Beat your data hard enough and it'll confess to anything.

#88
Avanti - Really? Bush ignored science or just the rants of the Eco-Whores ?
The earth is not threatened by Free people and modern technology.

re: #87 jcm

Hansen at NASA had a big piece of the cooling hysteria, now he's a big warming dude.

He should have his degree's revoked.

Science may be Obama's biggest weakness. I'm still steamed at a couple of statements he made during the campaign, he seems to believe all he has to do as ask for anything and a Scientist will . make . it . happen. This would be in keeping with Obama being a true communist in the spirit of Stalinist pseudo-science.

OTOH, I get the hopeful feeling that Obama just might leverage some of that hysteria into more pragmatic moves, like energy independence. As is becoming my motto, We Shall See.

For those who may have forgotten the richness and longevity of Paul Ehrlich’s incompetence, some of his earliest hits:

"Population will inevitably and completely outstrip whatever small increases in food supplies we make."

Paul Ehrlich, biologist, Stanford University -- Mademoiselle Magazine, April 1970

"Most of the people who are going to die in the greatest cataclysm in the history of man have already been born."

Paul Ehrlich, biologist, Stanford University -- "Eco-Catastrophe!" (essay), Ramparts Magazine, Earth Day Special issue (1970)

"By...[1975] some experts feel that food shortages will have escalated the present level of world hunger and starvation into famines of unbelievable proportions. Other experts, more optimistic, think the ultimate food-population collision will not occur until the decade of the 1980s."

Paul Ehrlich, biologist, Stanford University -- "Eco-Catastrophe!" (essay), Ramparts Magazine, Earth Day Special issue

"[A]ir pollution... is certainly going to take hundreds of thousands of lives in the next few years alone."

Paul Ehrlich, biologist, Stanford University -- April 1970 Mademoiselle Magazine (April 1970)

[DDT and other chlorinated hydrocarbons] "may have substantially reduced the life expectancy of people born since 1945."

Paul Ehrlich, biologist, Stanford University --Audubon Magazine, May 1970 issue

"I'm scared... I'm 37 and I'd kind of like to live to be 67 in a reasonably pleasant world, and not die in some kind of holocaust in the next decade."

Paul Ehrlich, biologist, Stanford University --Look Magazine, 1970 Earth Day issue

This is bad. This is George Soros' global socialist movement taking control of our energy policy through populism.

re: #79 karmic_inquisitor

The list:

Among the things that scientists have established using scientific research:

Fish catches increasing
Fish catches decreasing

Ice sheets building
Ice sheets melting

More clouds
Fewer clouds

lakes shrinking
lakes growing

more insects
fewer insects

The list goes on and on and on. Nothing like offering predictive theories by covering all possible outcomes.

/Nice science you got there!

Only one thing is certain.

Algore is getting fatter.

Pollution is a big problem.

Potable water is, and will be a big concern.

Energy is a huge concern.

Global warming is way down on the list.

re: #88 avanti

AGW = good science? Really?

re: #107 shiek al beif salami

So when will CO2 be banned from soda/pop and beer because of glowarm?

Not banned, taxed to fund an offset.

re: #114 Racer X

Pollution is a big problem.

Potable water is, and will be a big concern.

Energy is a huge concern.

Global warming is way down on the list.

Agree 100%.

So what is the breaking point for the AGW alarmist? I mean at what level of taxation and regulation do even those libtards cry uncle? They have to live in this country to and my guess is that not all of the AGW alarmists are members of the elite ruing class. My immediate family is a case in point. They all believe the AGW bunk but are not rich by any means. So when do they realize they have screwed themselves? When do people revolt?

What are either of these people going to do to improve science education? Anything besides pushing AGW?

re: #113 jcm

Only one thing is certain.

Algore is getting fatter.

...and richer.

I would believe in man-made global warming just a little bit more if the main proponent wasn't such a hypocrite and a fear monger, and didn't profit by selling carbon offsets.

So I remain skeptical.

re: #114 Racer X

Pollution is a big problem.

Potable water is, and will be a big concern.

Energy is a huge concern.

Global warming is way down on the list.

You are pragmatic, and need to be re-educated.
//

re: #114 Racer X
In the developing countries. We can and have cleaned up our messes. The air and water are cleaner now than in the last 30 years. We have plenty of energy, except the eco nuts won't let us go get it.

re: #104 Racer X

not to worry; I froze 'um off when I was out shoveling a new 8" of global warming from my driveway. I didn't really mind - they've been cracked for as long as I have owned them.

/sigh. I could have been a plumber.

re: #98 jcm

It started with a high school's kid science project. Big display and thing on Dihydrogen monoxide.... except his science project wasn't on that it was how gullible people will sign anything if it's pitched right.

Which is the whole point of GW. They are pitching socialism as the cure and people are buying.

For all our modern means of gathering and disseminating information and our thinking that we're the most well informed and educated generation in history, we are just plain fucking stupid.......no smarter than the mobs they could whip up in the town square back in the Middle Ages to burn the witch.....Jeeeez Loeeeez.......

How come our socialist/democrats will take millions of dollars in Chinese Communist contributions all while China is polluting and poisoning its own environment and making its people and the world sick?

re: #118 Jetpilot1101

Look what happened when gas hit $4 a gallon. That may be a pretty good marker.

re: #126 FrogMarch

How come our socialist/democrats will take millions of dollars in Chinese Communist contributions all while China is polluting and poisoning its own environment and making its people and the world sick?

Because they are hypocrites. I couldn't come up with a witty quip so I had to settle on the truth.

re: #126 FrogMarch

How come our socialist/democrats will take millions of dollars in Chinese Communist contributions all while China is polluting and poisoning its own environment and making its people and the world sick?

was that a rhetorical question?

re: #114 Racer X

Pollution is a big problem.

Potable water is, and will be a big concern.

Energy is a huge concern.

Global warming is way down on the list.

Yep....

Pollution is a big problem.

The answer to all those is free market capitalism everywhere.

When you're worried about eating to night, it's hard to worry about your shit floating down stream.

re: #105 pingjockey

Lets see you put up a wind farm or solar panel array! NIMBY! These are the same people who fly in private jets and tell us 'proles what is best. BULLSHIT! Lets also see you move commodities without semi trucks or diesel trains. Mass transit also works well when it snows in Seattle and Portland.

A good example of the kind of thinking. Mayor of Denver tells people not to d their Christmas shopping online, get out, run around town, spend money with local merchants.

Same with our governor.

Well, both of them are as far left as they can go. But no on is questioning them about increasing the carbon footprint by everyone running around town in cars, and such

AGW?

The jury is still out.

More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims

“I am a skeptic…Global warming has become a new religion.” - Nobel Prize Winner for Physics, Ivar Giaever.

Warming fears are the “worst scientific scandal in the history…When people come to know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists.” - UN IPCC Japanese Scientist Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical chemist.

“The IPCC has actually become a closed circuit; it doesn’t listen to others. It doesn’t have open minds… I am really amazed that the Nobel Peace Prize has been given on scientifically incorrect conclusions by people who are not geologists,” - Indian geologist Dr. Arun D. Ahluwalia at Punjab University and a board member of the UN-supported International Year of the Planet.

“It is a blatant lie put forth in the media that makes it seem there is only a fringe of scientists who don’t buy into anthropogenic global warming.” - U.S Government Atmospheric Scientist Stanley B. Goldenberg of the Hurricane Research Division of NOAA.

“Even doubling or tripling the amount of carbon dioxide will virtually have little impact, as water vapour and water condensed on particles as clouds dominate the worldwide scene and always will.” – . Geoffrey G. Duffy, a professor in the Department of Chemical and Materials Engineering of the University of Auckland, NZ.

“For how many years must the planet cool before we begin to understand that the planet is not warming? For how many years must cooling go on?" - Geologist Dr. David Gee the chairman of the science committee of the 2008 International Geological Congress who has authored 130 plus peer reviewed papers, and is currently at Uppsala University in Sweden.

“Many [scientists] are now searching for a way to back out quietly (from promoting warming fears), without having their professional careers ruined.” - Atmospheric physicist James A. Peden, formerly of the Space Research and Coordination Center in Pittsburgh.

re: #118 Jetpilot1101

When trucks can't transport food because the truckers are shut down... we were getting pretty close to that point with rising fuel prices at 140/barrel and thankfully we had the credit dry up that nipped the speculative buying/reselling umpteen times of oil while en route from the rest of the world to the US and crashing the price back down to something not resembling a very real economic rape of a Nation.

Just a few short months ago it was warm outside. The leaves trees were green and everything was growing. Then, all of the leaves fell from the trees and they now appear dead. I haven't mowed my grass because it's stopped growing. It's also cold outside VERY cold, and there is what appears to be ice falling from the sky. I've done some rudimentary calculations and, considering the radical change in climate over the past few months, the temperature will reach absolute zero some time in February or March. At that time, all life will cease to exist.

I just wanted to say goodbye since global ecopolypse is clearly upon us.

re: #125 LGoPs

You sound like that guy on Hannity and Colmes last night,. And you're both right.

re: #125 LGoPs

For all our modern means of gathering and disseminating information and our thinking that we're the most well informed and educated generation in history, we are just plain fucking stupid.......no smarter than the mobs they could whip up in the town square back in the Middle Ages to burn the witch.....Jeeeez Loeeeez.......

Education, Education, Education.

We've ceased teaching what made us great.
CRITICAL THINKING!

And substituted ideology for thinking.

re: #13 LEGION

OH NO- the psycho global warming-climate change losers are in control! Our economy will be wrecked even more than they already did with the Fannie/Freddy mortgage debacle! The Socialist Commie Marxist Terrorists have gained control. We are doomed unless we fight back. Impeach!

Impeach?

Try vote instead.

The greatest thing about democracy is that the people get the government they deserve.

re: #87 jcm

Hansen at NASA had a big piece of the cooling hysteria, now he's a big warming dude.

He should have his degree's revoked.

[Link: www.dailytech.com...]

re: #134 MacDuff

LOL!

re: #125 LGoPs

For all our modern means of gathering and disseminating information and our thinking that we're the most well informed and educated generation in history, we are just plain fucking stupid.......no smarter than the mobs they could whip up in the town square back in the Middle Ages to burn the witch.....Jeeeez Loeeeez.......

Yes, but I think there may have been a point when that wasn't the case in the US and a few other countries. I can't pinpoint an exact date, but it certainly was around the time of WWII, when only a tiny minority said we should avoid war at all costs. That generation understood what had to be done, and why, and also understood good science.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the rise in cheap entertainment? I would speculate yes.

Good morning,
There are two (count 'em two) separate questions to answer.
1) Does human activity cause an increase in global air temperatures over a long time with real long term consequences?
2) What is the best way if reducing the impact of people on the environment? That is to say is the answer to restrict capital growth and increase the power of government or is the environment best served by the creative power of Capitalism?
3) Would you trust the people who advocate these controls to competently and efficiently do anything?

Doh!, there are three (count 'em three) separate questions to answer.

and the Judean People's Front are Splitters.

Whenever a weatherman or climatologist start sounding profound and wonderfully brilliant, just remember their computer models and detailed measurements rarely allow them to calculate a three day forecast accurately. When they do, it is usually something like "the last 20 days of freezing weather here in Toronto will continue over the weekend". A two year old could predict that.

O Helios help us.

re: #136 jcm

Education, Education, Education.

We've ceased teaching what made us great.
CRITICAL THINKING!

And substituted ideology for thinking.

Damn right. And I think the removal of critical thinking was a deliberate act. It's a lot easier to control the masses when they don't ask uncomfortable question.......bastards.

re: #110 itellu3times

Science may be Obama's biggest weakness. I'm still steamed at a couple of statements he made during the campaign, he seems to believe all he has to do as ask for anything and a Scientist will . make . it . happen. This would be in keeping with Obama being a true communist in the spirit of Stalinist pseudo-science.

OTOH, I get the hopeful feeling that Obama just might leverage some of that hysteria into more pragmatic moves, like energy independence. As is becoming my motto, We Shall See.

The tendency to see technology as being able to solve anything is a bit naiive. Consider that we have poured billions and billions into AIDS research and don't have a cure let alone a good enough understanding of virology to engineer a cure.

I deal with a lot of software engineers who are certain that they are smart because society tells them they are. These same people tell me with a straight face that we can be petroleum / coal free without using nuclear power if we simply had the political will to battle back the conspiracy of oil / coal / nuke interests. These are people who call themselves engineers but can't do the math to understand how to energize a grid with a base load.

Just as they rely on Powerpoint to prototype an idea and call the gap to a finished product "a mere matter of programming" they have extrapolated such a process to all fields of technical endeavor.

And they all love Obama and he listens to them.

Good grief I'm already sick to death with hussein!..Stupid is as stupid does..(or something along that line)

re: #106 jcm

I OR they passed a "assisted suicide" bill a decade ago. Patients have gotta public health coverage for suicide meds, but not cancer treatments.

We can see where that one is headed.

I remember reading about a man looking for treatment for his cancer and being told they'll pay for his assisted suicide. I need to find that article.

You can't fix STUPID.

As we've been debating creationism and Id, and as its quite clear that religion and science are two totally separate ways of looking at the world, and need to be kept that way - has it occurred to anyone that GW or Climate Change is actually a pseudo-religion, and should thus be kept out of science?

And has it occurred to anybody that mixing science and political ideology is the worst one can do to science?

Lyssenko, anybody?

re: #118 Jetpilot1101

As for the when, I have no idea. But it has to happen. The sooner the better.
All of these green energy products and "markets" that have miraculously appeared all over the business pages remind me of the mid-90's dotcom apogee. Eventually reality sets in.

re: #141 lifeofthemind

Good morning,
There are two (count 'em two) separate questions to answer.
1) Does human activity cause an increase in global air temperatures over a long time with real long term consequences?
2) What is the best way if reducing the impact of people on the environment? That is to say is the answer to restrict capital growth and increase the power of government or is the environment best served by the creative power of Capitalism?
3) Would you trust the people who advocate these controls to competently and efficiently do anything?

Doh!, there are three (count 'em three) separate questions to answer.

and the Judean People's Front are Splitters.

That's the Peoples Front of Judea, damn it.....
:)

Frankly- I'm less concerned about the science around AGW as I am of 0bama and his administration damaging the economy with harmful environmental regulations our businesses can ill afford at the moment.

Conspiracy!

Big oil is lying about global warming!

re: #118 Jetpilot1101

So what is the breaking point for the AGW alarmist? I mean at what level of taxation and regulation do even those libtards cry uncle? They have to live in this country to and my guess is that not all of the AGW alarmists are members of the elite ruing class. My immediate family is a case in point. They all believe the AGW bunk but are not rich by any means. So when do they realize they have screwed themselves? When do people revolt?

It is a moral cause for them - not a matter of objective observation / study.

The people of Iran have yet to revolt. These lemmings won't either as long as the eco-mullahs are waving their fingers and declaring critics to be non-persons.

re: #134 MacDuff

please refer to my #66,,, I'm suing you for intellectual infringement

re: #151 Sharmuta

Frankly- I'm less concerned about the science around AGW as I am of 0bama and his administration damaging the economy with harmful environmental regulations our businesses can ill afford at the moment.

At least he'll only be a 1 term president then. We can pick up the pieces after he vacates the White House and rebuild a nation where the democrat party is a sidenote.

re: #151 Sharmuta
They are gonna do it. It will take years to repair the damage these asshats are going to do to this nation.

re: #134 MacDuff

I hear you. Tomorrow, December 21, I am going to sacrifice a chicken to the Sun God and pray He will start staying longer each. I may even dance around naked in my yard so He will be sure to notice.

I'll let you know if things are any better on the 22nd.

re: #131 Walter L. Newton

and don't get me started on Ritter's stealth union underhandedness.

[Link: ritterwatch.blogspot.com...]

I can't stand Gov. Bill Ritter. He needs to go.

re: #151 Sharmuta

Frankly- I'm less concerned about the science around AGW as I am of 0bama and his administration damaging the economy with harmful environmental regulations our businesses can ill afford at the moment.

The GW scam is ALL about politics.

re: #152 Racer X

Conspiracy!

Big oil is lying about global warming!

Conspiracy!

Big Global Warming is lying about Oil!

I wonder what they will say when the glaciers start moving down over Canada. It's amazing how full of Luddites the ranks of Scientific Academia are. Fallen Angels, indeed.

The green hills of earth, he thought. Now the glaciers-—not rivers of ice, but vast oceans of ice-—were spreading south at tens of miles a year. Hundreds of miles in some places. In the dictionary, "glacial" meant slow; but Ice Ages came on fast. Ten thousand years ago the glaciers had covered England and most of Europe in less than a century. They'd known that since the sixties . . . though no one had ever seen fit to revise his schoolbooks. But what did that matter? To a school kid a century was forever anyway.

As for Gordon . . . He glanced again at his copilot. Well, what the world is like in our lifetimes is what it should be like forever. As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be. It was funny to think of groundside environmentalists desperately struggling against Nature, trying to preserve forever the temporary conditions and mayfly species of a brief interglacial. Alex looked again through the cockpit windscreen and sighed.

"We could have stopped it," he said abruptly.

"Eh?" Gordon gave him a puzzled glance.

"The Ice Age. Big orbiting solar mirrors. More microwave power stations. Sunlight is free. We could have beamed down enough power to stop the ice. Look what one little SUNSAT has done for Winnipeg."

re: #121 Racer X

I would believe in man-made global warming just a little bit more if the main proponent wasn't such a hypocrite and a fear monger, and didn't profit by selling carbon offsets.

So I remain skeptical.

....MAN BEAR PIG MUST DIE! ---Al Gore

re: #147 Jetpilot1101

You can't fix STUPID.

But you can put STUPID out of its misery.

re: #146 Idle Drifter

I remember reading about a man looking for treatment for his cancer and being told they'll pay for his assisted suicide. I need to find that article.

American Thinker.
Oregon's Suicidal Approach to Health Care

Oregon seems to have found a surefire way to lower health care costs: Tell the patient you'll pay for drugs that will end her life, but not those that would extend her life. Here's how it works:

I just shoveled 12 and half inches of global warming out of the driveway...

re: #47 Jetpilot1101

Does anyone remember the "Global Cooling" alarmists in the 70's?

What happened to them and their "science"?

They were 30 years too early.
Timing is everything.
Meanwhile, my, always a mild winter, neck of the woods is snow covered with more to come.

re: #145 Christene

Good grief I'm already sick to death with hussein!..Stupid is as stupid does..(or something along that line)

Are you saying Barack doesn't pass the Forrest Gump test?

*present*

re: #161 Quilly Mammoth
I have that book and a bunch of other Niven/Pournelle.

re: #167 FrogMarch

Are you saying Barack doesn't pass the Forrest Gump test?

*present*

Shrimp Waffles !?!?!?!?

re: #164 jcm

Thanks!

re: #141 lifeofthemind

I only know the answer to question 2: bigger flat screen t.v.s, better airconditioning, and lots of praline ice cream - that's the best way there is to keep people from going outside and ruining the environment.

The real agenda here is social and cultural, to shift the center of gravity of social status to the class represented by the GW alarmists; media professionals, academics, administrators, and away from entrepreneurs and producers. Keep in mind that the average media pro or academic functions at the local and not the global level. It galls them to be lower on the social scale than car dealers, agribusiness brokers, or oil money investors, to say nothing of the ordinary folk who get to drive vehicles that actually take up more of the street than our Lexi and Mercedes. This subculture is composed of people who are actually completely ignorant of global history, culture or traditions; substituting academic media sound bites and standardized tropes for facts. They actually are not thinking of some global agenda, at least the rank and file is not. They would realize they are courting disaster if they did.

re: #156 pingjockey

They are gonna do it. It will take years to repair the damage these asshats are going to do to this nation.

And business will of course pass the cost on to the consumer. How are people supposed to afford this? We won't- we'll stop buying some products, and those business will suffer even more at that point.

We can't afford this!

re: #155 Jetpilot1101

At least he'll only be a 1 term president then. We can pick up the pieces after he vacates the White House and rebuild a nation where the democrat party is a sidenote.

The only way any of this will be stopped is a third party. The Dems and the Repubs are broke, and their warranty has run out.

You want more of this, keep supporting either party and you'll keep getting the same shit.

Ah, that's insanity, if you haven't recognized it.

Most of the stuff they want to do wouldn't bother me in the least:

Alternative energy so when my son gets to Marine-joining age, he isn't off trying to keep the oil supply going and so we aren't giving $billions to mischievous countries.

Clear out air pollution (after all, I lived in L.A. in the early '70s so I know air pollution!).

Work on clean water for everybody all over the world.

Light up the dark continents ( [Link: www.hyperionpowergeneration.com...] )

Not bad things. The bad part of their program is using people's unwarranted guilt to "spreading the wealth" around by enforced confiscatory fees, taxes, credits, etc.

The TV weather used to be delivered by a chiropractor or literally a former clown or by the weather honey. It was good enough to get us out the door. Farmers and pilots needed more professional information and paid for it. Now we ran the purveyors through professional training in undergraduate meteorology and communications majors at State Universities and are allowing them to set regulatory policy, write laws and spend billions of tax payer dollars.

re: #158 FrogMarch

and don't get me started on Ritter's stealth union underhandedness.

[Link: ritterwatch.blogspot.com...]
I can't stand Gov. Bill Ritter. He needs to go.

I won't. But as a local, you know where I'm coming from.

Good Morning Lizards ...

Wonder who we send the bill to for the 1 million (no joke) seedlings we lost in a late freeze last year on our farms ...Global Warming ... no I am not buying it ...and I am sick of being regulated to death ...

I also am very worried about Obama's labor pick ...when she started speaking spanish in her speech yesterday I almost threw a shoe at the television ...

So - last year my very liberal niece (who really has made a religion out of GW) was at the family reunion trying to scare everyone about how they have to be green or we are all going to die. My brother-in-law gets me and says "Moogie, please put some sense into her and tell her it isn't so!" I knew it would be a lost cause, but I started to try to give her the "good news" that there really isn't any good science behind GW, that Al's movie was full of junk, etc, etc.... Well, she ran out of the room crying because she WANTS to believe in GW and I was being mean trying to give her hope! Go Figure......... Anyway, while all the GW snow is falling all over creation in the US and Europe - I sure am glad I live in Florida! :)

re: #140 vxbush

Yes, but I think there may have been a point when that wasn't the case in the US and a few other countries. I can't pinpoint an exact date, but it certainly was around the time of WWII, when only a tiny minority said we should avoid war at all costs. That generation understood what had to be done, and why, and also understood good science.

I wonder if it has anything to do with the rise in cheap entertainment? I would speculate yes.

I think it's a by-product of affluence. There's an old saying that adversity builds character - look at the greatest generation and what they went through and what they wrought. After the war, the 60's generation was spoiled rotten and we are living it's result. There's a lot of bastards around with too much time on their hands and a corresponding obsession to inflict their idiocy on all of us. I know I'm rambling but this really lights my fuse.......

re: #161 Quilly Mammoth

I wonder what they will say when the glaciers start moving down over Canada. It's amazing how full of Luddites the ranks of Scientific Academia are. Fallen Angels, indeed.

I was about to mention Fallen Angels. This was written in 1991, demonstrating once again that GW is not a new idea, though it didn't come to the attention of the media-masses until AlGore adopted it in the late 90s.

re: #163 Cathypop

But you can put STUPID out of its misery.

That's a whole lot of stupid to put out of it's misery.....

re: #173 Sharmuta

And business will of course pass the cost on to the consumer. How are people supposed to afford this? We won't- we'll stop buying some products, and those business will suffer even more at that point.

We can't afford this!

You are right, we can't afford this. But I don't think Obama and his band of flunkies will get their chance. Once the glut of cash that the treasury has printed hits the market, get ready for Weimar Republic 2. Mugabe will be laughing his socks off at us. Remember the 100 Grand candy bar...get ready because it's coming back only this time it will be the price not the name.

re: #132 Racer X

AGW?

The jury is still out.

More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims

Before putting too much credibility on that report, please note that it's from the website of Senator James Inhofe, a fundamentalist and young earth creationist connected to the Pat Robertson branch of the far right.

He is not the best source for honest criticism of climate change.

re: #154 sattv4u2

please refer to my #66,,, I'm suing you for intellectual infringement

Sorry 'bout that, have your people contact my people and we'll do lunch. ;)

re: #175 Sunlight

Light up the dark continents ( [Link: www.hyperionpowergeneration.com...] )

But I think the same people who believe in AGW are also the types who think that Africa should remain the way it is, with no running water, no electricity, etc. It doesn't help that dictocratic thugs like Mugabe have raped countries, but no one is putting pressure on Africa to reform and push these guys out of office. We did it in Haiti once, didn't we? We can't we do that elsewhere? I know, it didn't fix the problems in Haiti, but I would love to get the worst of the bunch out.

re: #115 Fat Jolly Penguin

AGW = good science? Really?

If you are going to fight the climate change guys you can't emulate the ID/evolution debate.

You'll need to fight peer reviewed research with peer reviewed from you side.

You need to stop using silly arguments like it's cold outside today, so GW is bunk, or we breath out C02 or lists of 650 truthers that are not in the field.
I'd start by trying to disprove the science that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, the science that shows it is increasing and the earth is warming faster then in a few 1000 years..

Basically, you need to fight science with science or you'll look as loony as the ID guys and lose.l

re: #179 moogie

Fluffy White Global Warming Crystals (TM)

Its colder than shit here in Kansas and my brother in ND is having a bitch of a winter. Easiest thing in the world to fix is something doesn't exist.

re: #176 lifeofthemind

My point earlier - you can't educate out stupid. Just because someone passed through the oven of education doesn't mean they will ever be a biscuit.

I can the oceans rising, ice expanding and Polar Bears having a Coke toast as I type. Happy, green days are here to stay! Cost? How can the world not afford this?

re: #153 karmic_inquisitor

It is a moral cause for them - not a matter of objective observation / study.

The people of Iran have yet to revolt. These lemmings won't either as long as the eco-mullahs are waving their fingers and declaring critics to be non-persons.

The interesting point here is that these eco-mullahs use what they declare to be 'science' and have obviously not understood the first thing about scientific endeavour: that nothing is written in stone, that debate and experiment are the lifeblood of scentific discovery - and that shutting dissenters up just emphasises that they're about politics (stalinist ones, at that!) and not about science.

re: #156 pingjockey

They are gonna do it. It will take years to repair the damage these asshats are going to do to this nation.

The bastards figured out a way to take us down without firing a shot. Kruschev did say that they would bury us from within......and our own useful idiots are carrying the shovels......

re: #179 moogie

I sure am glad I live in Florida! :)

Do you know if any property I can buy in the Pensicola area? I really am starting to like the idea of being a snow bird. Of course, I work for a living, but soon I'll be able to do that from anyplace....

re: #186 vxbush

But I think the same people who believe in AGW are also the types who think that Africa should remain the way it is, with no running water, no electricity, etc. It doesn't help that dictocratic thugs like Mugabe have raped countries, but no one is putting pressure on Africa to reform and push these guys out of office. We did it in Haiti once, didn't we? We can't we do that elsewhere? I know, it didn't fix the problems in Haiti, but I would love to get the worst of the bunch out.

You flaming Imperialist! 0bama will heal Africa with sheer will. And chit chat.

re: #136 jcm

Education, Education, Education.

We've ceased teaching what made us great.
CRITICAL THINKING!

And substituted ideology for thinking.

I often work with people whose only education experience has been inner city public education. Occasionally they say things that are so mindbogglingly stupid and illogical I first wonder if they've had an education at all. Then I think that someone would have to be taught to say things so stupid.

re: #175 Sunlight
Your last sentence hits the nail on the head. They will use confiscatory practices to 'spread the wealth. Also it is extremely difficult to get a person who is trying to feed his family to give a rats ass about deforestation or water pollution. China and India have damn near half the worlds population. Who's gonna tell them to lay off coal and other pollution when they have 3 billion mouths to feed?

I think the sun heats the planet according to solar cycles and we're lucky to be here during this interglacial period. Warming creates co2 and always peaks before glaciation. The planet spends most of its life frozen over and I don't think we're going to interrupt the next glacial cycle, which many scientists say is due right about now.

re: #186 vxbush

But I think the same people who believe in AGW are also the types who think that Africa should remain the way it is, with no running water, no electricity, etc. It doesn't help that dictocratic thugs like Mugabe have raped countries, but no one is putting pressure on Africa to reform and push these guys out of office. We did it in Haiti once, didn't we? We can't we do that elsewhere? I know, it didn't fix the problems in Haiti, but I would love to get the worst of the bunch out.

They want Africa to jump straight from 3rd world, near stone age to solar and wind.

The key in Africa isn't environmental. It's political, as long as most of the states are run by Mugabe's nothing else matters. It's gonna' suck, big time suck.

Holdren and Lubchenco have argued repeatedly for a mandatory limit on greenhouse gas emissions to avert catastrophic climate change.

That ought to kill the economy, but good. Welcome to the Third World! I wonder what Ol' Plugs thinks of all this?

Biden: U.S. Economy in Danger of 'Absolutely Tanking'

Vice President-Elect Joe Biden said the U.S. economy is in danger of "absolutely tanking" and will need a second stimulus package in the $600-billion to $700-billion range.

"The economy is in much worse shape than we thought it was in," Biden told me during an exclusive interview -- his first since becoming vice president-elect-- to air this Sunday on "This Week with George Stephanopoulos."

Well, that cheery news ought to help market and consumer confidence, don't ya think? Ho, Ho, Ho, Merry Christmas!

/back to Bedrock

Oh! Wait! I know why the global warming is so deep in my yard: it's not January 20 yet. That's the day when the rise of the oceans will cease and Gaia will begin to heal.

How did I forget about that?

re: #171 shiek al beif salami

I only know the answer to question 2: bigger flat screen t.v.s, better airconditioning, and lots of praline ice cream - that's the best way there is to keep people from going outside and ruining the environment.

Poor people and socialist economies trash the environment. Rich people protect it.

re: #184 Charles

Before putting too much credibility on that report, please note that it's from the website of Senator James Inhofe, a fundamentalist and young earth creationist connected to the Pat Robertson branch of the far right.

He is not the best source for honest criticism of climate change.

Here are 31,000 scientist that disagree with global warming, they are not connected with ID or religious fundamentalism in any way shape or form.

re: #163 Cathypop

But you can put STUPID out of its misery.

Putting stupid out of its misery also heals the shooting pain in my neck—a two-fer.

re: #187 avanti

If you are going to fight the climate change guys you can't emulate the ID/evolution debate.

You'll need to fight peer reviewed research with peer reviewed from you side.

You need to stop using silly arguments like it's cold outside today, so GW is bunk, or we breath out C02 or lists of 650 truthers that are not in the field.
I'd start by trying to disprove the science that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, the science that shows it is increasing and the earth is warming faster then in a few 1000 years..

Basically, you need to fight science with science or you'll look as loony as the ID guys and lose.l

How will this happen if any grant proposal suggesting the type of research and analysis that you suggest would have the PI banned as a denier? Ruin his/her career. How could the work be done? Nights and weekends? Green time?

Civilization is the period between Ice Ages.

re: #197 David IV of Georgia

I often work with people whose only education experience has been inner city public education. Occasionally they say things that are so mindbogglingly stupid and illogical I first wonder if they've had an education at all. Then I think that someone would have to be taught to say things so stupid.

Well, If BHO does not succeed right away, it is because the Criminal Bush is not letting them move into Blair House early. It is interfering with the Force.

re: #204 doriangrey

Here are 31,000 scientist that disagree with global warming, they are not connected with ID or religious fundamentalism in any way shape or form.

Right at the bottom of that page: a link to the Discovery Institute. Uh oh.

re: #197 David IV of Georgia

I often work with people whose only education experience has been inner city public education. Occasionally they say things that are so mindbogglingly stupid and illogical I first wonder if they've had an education at all. Then I think that someone would have to be taught to say things so stupid.

Modern version.
Precision questioning

Media stories survive only a curisory PQ round.
I'd love to get a GW type in a PQ session.

re: #204 doriangrey

Here are 31,000 scientist that disagree with global warming, they are not connected with ID or religious fundamentalism in any way shape or form.

Beat me, I was just going off to look for that....
Thanks.

re: #192 yma o hyd

The interesting point here is that these eco-mullahs use what they declare to be 'science' and have obviously not understood the first thing about scientific endeavour: that nothing is written in stone, that debate and experiment are the lifeblood of scentific discovery - and that shutting dissenters up just emphasises that they're about politics (stalinist ones, at that!) and not about science.

Exactly.

What gets me is that, when the pendulum swings back, the reaction will unfortunately end up wiping out some good environmental regulation. Furthermore, I don't think that industrial activity has a ZERO impact on the climate. I'd like to know what impact it does have and then go about managing it. But when that idea becomes the basis of an oppressive moralist regime, expect it to lose all credibility when the masses revolt.

Those sincerely concerned with AGW who aren't of the alarmist bent should be leading the charge to get rid of the moralists and stop delegitimizing critics with "debate is over".

In a healthy, rational society the debate will never be over.

re: #211 ploome hineni

so, in the era of affirmative action, rewarding excellence is seen as racist,

the agenda is not excellence , the agenda is equality

/lowest common denominator

Equality of Outcome....
Marxism in Education.

re: #196 Sharmuta

You flaming Imperialist! 0bama will heal Africa with sheer will. And chit chat.

Egads. How stupid of me.

/barf

re: #184 Charles

Before putting too much credibility on that report, please note that it's from the website of Senator James Inhofe, a fundamentalist and young earth creationist connected to the Pat Robertson branch of the far right.

He is not the best source for honest criticism of climate change.

I hear ya.

I'm just pointing out there is NOT a consensus among scientists; the AGW debate is clearly political. There are more important issues facing mankind right now than AGW.

re: #184 Charles

Before putting too much credibility on that report, please note that it's from the website of Senator James Inhofe, a fundamentalist and young earth creationist connected to the Pat Robertson branch of the far right.

He is not the best source for honest criticism of climate change.

But the people who are quoted _aren't_ young earthers and are quite credible.

re: #212 jcm

Beat me, I was just going off to look for that....
Thanks.

See Charles' No. 209.

re: #209 Charles

Right at the bottom of that page: a link to the Discovery Institute. Uh oh.

This just in..
The climate is always going to change!
Al Gore has a job for life

The Obama administration will evidently be making some big changes in US policy on climate change

/it's the Sun stupid!

re: #208 opnion

I'm so glad they didn't let B.O. move into the Blair House early.

Yet another Obama way to max-tax every American, the poor included...Barack's socialism train has left the station...all aboard! Next stop Washington, DC...final destination...the World!

re: #199 MacGregor

I think the sun heats the planet according to solar cycles and we're lucky to be here during this interglacial period. Warming creates co2 and always peaks before glaciation. The planet spends most of its life frozen over and I don't think we're going to interrupt the next glacial cycle, which many scientists say is due right about now.

Och mun, ye don't get it!
If the GWers can get a nice little ice age going, it just shows how well they've done.
And then they can get cracking on that little bit of ice age, heh - they're experts now.

/and anyway, to save the planet its best to get rid of those pesky homo sapiens littering the environment.

This may be really far off base, but I think I've noticed something about the way Obama is putting together his team.

In areas that really matter, he is tapping slightly left of center people, and even some moderates. Most of people have been around the block a few time. And a lot of his appointments have upset his more far left base.

In the areas that are less important to the overall scheme, he has padded those positions with moonbats, that will keep the salivating looneys at bay a bit.

And when Obama has to decide what gets priority, I think you are going to find that these far left causes are not going to be getting anything much to do except make busy work.

Just a thought.

I am among that group of scientists, numerous but under-publicized, who postulate that anthropogenic GW is real enough, but that it may not be a bad thing.
Much of the harm assumed by the alarmists is based on hysterical and abysmally ignorant claims by non-scientists, ie Ted Turner and Al Gore, or on the conflation of GW with ozone depletion, an unrelated issue.
The real results would include an expansion of temperate and tropical agricultural zones, an extention of growing seasons, an increase in precipitation, and an overall increase in potential agricultural production. This would allow for continued population growth, and further improvements in the standard of living of the former working and peasant classes; that is, the very things the environmental movement exists to oppose.

re: #209 Charles

Right at the bottom of that page: a link to the Discovery Institute. Uh oh.

Wonderful, just freaking wonderful.

re: #220 Killian Bundy
Ya mean that big yellow ball of light and heat? Who'd a thunk it?! Sheesh we have an on going hydrogen bomb going off 93 million miles away and it might affect the climate on this planet? Does manbearpig know this?

re: #218 MandyManners

See Charles' No. 209.

Saw it......
*spit*

Their f'in pollution's is cropping up everywhere.

re: #217 Quilly Mammoth

But the people who are quoted _aren't_ young earthers and are quite credible.

Not all of them:

[Link: scienceblogs.com...]

And there are people on that list who have asked to be taken off, but weren't.

[Link: gristmill.grist.org...]

re: #224 yma o hyd
Yep. Must remove the carbon based infestation.

re: #228 pingjockey

Ya mean that big yellow ball of light and heat? Who'd a thunk it?! Sheesh we have an on going hydrogen bomb going off 93 million miles away and it might affect the climate on this planet? Does manbearpig know this?

HUSH YO MOUTH! It's letting out carbon dioxide.
/;-P

re: #211 ploome hineni

so, in the era of affirmative action, rewarding excellence is seen as racist,

the agenda is not excellence , the agenda is equality

/lowest common denominator

Lowest common denominator is the very essence of socialism and communism and political correctness &c.

/ "&", an ampersand, is a sloppily written ligature of "et" which in Latin means "and".

re: #190 shiek al beif salami

My point earlier - you can't educate out stupid. Just because someone passed through the oven of education doesn't mean they will ever be a biscuit.

Yes but sometimes the results are more pleasant than other times.
The Weather Channel seems to have two types of presenters. First are the retired Air Force Meteorology officers. These are the guys who can wave a stick at a map and tell you that the mission is a go and good luck on bombing Schweinfurt. The other group are the most beautiful women on the babble box. They don't get me angry. Either way they are better than the gang that now seeks to set policy. Obama's mob from the advocacy groups and enviro think tanks are like the HR/race hucksters who have been sucking off the economy for 40 years. They've simply opened up another vein.

re: #232 jcm
Snowing over there yet? Weather Channel says you westsiders are gonna get snow, high winds, then...freezing rain. Get all your stuff now!

re: #215 vxbush

It's just highly unlikely we'll see 0bama do anything to truly help Africa- he can't even help his African family!

re: #209 Charles

Right at the bottom of that page: a link to the Discovery Institute. Uh oh.

The Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine (http://www.oism.org/pproject/) linked to a presentation by Dr. Noah Robinson, but the Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine is not the originator of the Petition Project, (http://www.petitionproject.org/index.html) nor are they connected to the Discovery Institute.

Several members of the Institute's staff are also well known for their work on the Petition Project, an undertaking that has obtained the signatures of more than 19,000 American scientists opposed, on scientific grounds, to the hypothesis of "human-caused global warming" and to concomitant proposals for world-wide energy taxation and rationing. The Petition Project does not utilize any Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine resources or funds. It also has no funding from energy industries or other parties with special interests in the "global warming" debate. Funding for the project comes entirely from private donations by interested individuals, primarily readers of the newsletter Access to Energy that is independently published.

re: #235 pingjockey

Snowing over there yet? Weather Channel says you westsiders are gonna get snow, high winds, then...freezing rain. Get all your stuff now!

Few hours yet....
I'm all ready and buttoned up.

Holdren and Lubchenco have argued repeatedly for a mandatory limit on greenhouse gas emissions to avert catastrophic climate change.

/that giant sucking sound you hear is the sound of major U.S. corporations tripping over each other in a race to reincorporate in countries that aren't hostile to free markets

re: #213 karmic_inquisitor

The worst-case scenario is that once people realise they've been sold down the river with this 'scientific' GW, they will lose all confidence in further scientific work and discoveries.

And that is indeed scary, because civilisation is built on science and technology, not on all that New Age stuff.

Mind - its another huge indicator that the people behind this agenda want to see the western world - not just the USA, but Europe as well - brought down to the level of Africa, to better manipulate, rob and tyrannise people.

re: #134 MacDuff

Just a few short months ago it was warm outside. The leaves trees were green and everything was growing. Then, all of the leaves fell from the trees and they now appear dead. I haven't mowed my grass because it's stopped growing. It's also cold outside VERY cold, and there is what appears to be ice falling from the sky. I've done some rudimentary calculations and, considering the radical change in climate over the past few months, the temperature will reach absolute zero some time in February or March. At that time, all life will cease to exist.

I just wanted to say goodbye since global ecopolypse is clearly upon us.

Rush was doing something similar to that yesterday.
He ran the computer models and said that at the rate we were losing daylight (beginning the model in October), the US would totally run out of sunlight around June 2009.
Very frightening. ;-)
re: #156 pingjockey

They are gonna do it. It will take years to repair the damage these asshats are going to do to this nation.

It took several years to elect them to positions of "leadership" (read: power)
In theory, that can be undone in a single 4-year timespan.
In practice, though, since it took so long to develop, 4 years is optimistic.

re: #209 Charles

I'm glad you posted that, Charles.
I was starting to think that there was an uncanny similarity here between the way the ''science'' and scientific method are attacked to fight the warmists and that of the methods used by 6-Day Creationists and (from what I've learned here) the ID'ers.
Now I understand it.

re: #236 Sharmuta

It's just highly unlikely we'll see 0bama do anything to truly help Africa- he can't even help his African family!

He'll help them when the political climate is right and all the cameras are in place.

I'm a Global Warming skeptic so I'm not thrilled with some of Obama's choices. However, Bush has not been a science friendly president and I hope to see Obama increase research and science education.

re: #236 Sharmuta

It's just highly unlikely we'll see 0bama do anything to truly help Africa- he can't WON'T even help his African family!

Of course, the "worst" case scenario for GW really would result in the eco-elite losing their beachfront property, but I personally would count that as a bonus.

re: #235 pingjockey

It's snowing pretty good here in Portland..

re: #187 avanti

If you are going to fight the climate change guys you can't emulate the ID/evolution debate.

You'll need to fight peer reviewed research with peer reviewed from you side.

You need to stop using silly arguments like it's cold outside today, so GW is bunk, or we breath out C02 or lists of 650 truthers that are not in the field.
I'd start by trying to disprove the science that CO2 is a greenhouse gas, the science that shows it is increasing and the earth is warming faster then in a few 1000 years..

Basically, you need to fight science with science or you'll look as loony as the ID guys and lose.l

Get yer fightin' gear here.

Maybe Obama can send some of his advisors to Aspen, where there is a ton of new snow but it is too friggin' cold to enjoy the slopes....
GWMA.**
**globalwarmingmyass

re: #24 LGoPs

The term you're looking for is "watermelon": green on the outside, red on the outside.

re: #209 Charles

Right at the bottom of that page: a link to the Discovery Institute. Uh oh.

They are referencing the Oregon Petition which was actually started by Robinson's father, Arthur B. Robinson. It was first started in 1999. Dad and son became hardcore young earthers after the Oregon Petition was started. I'm sure quite a few of the people who are currently associated with it wish the Robinsons weren't associated with it. Arthur Robinson used to enjoy a great deal of respect forst as an associate of Paulings and later as the main researcher who disproved many of the claims that Paulings made later in life about Vitamin C.

The roots of the Oregon Petition go back to the 1992 Statement by Atmospheric Scientists on Greenhouse Warming,

re: #238 jcm
Good. My bro is up in Burlington and he's all set too. We're supposed to get hit tomorrow night. Whoop dee damn doo.

re: #247 Killgore Trout

It's snowing pretty good here in Portland..

That's so weirod - it's bright and sunny here in the Puget Sound and so clear I can see the Cascades....meh, it'll probably change in an hour or so....

re: #240 yma o hyd

The worst-case scenario is that once people realise they've been sold down the river with this 'scientific' GW, they will lose all confidence in further scientific work and discoveries.

And that is indeed scary, because civilisation is built on science and technology, not on all that New Age stuff.

Mind - its another huge indicator that the people behind this agenda want to see the western world - not just the USA, but Europe as well - brought down to the level of Africa, to better manipulate, rob and tyrannise people.

A million updings.

When climate moralizing is sold as science then it looks no different from the DI. It is as if there was a wedge strategy to undermine rationality.

re: #247 Killgore Trout
Yah. Been watching NWCN. Y'all on the west side of the Cascades are supposed to get zapped good.

re: #240 yma o hyd

The worst-case scenario is that once people realise they've been sold down the river with this 'scientific' GW, they will lose all confidence in further scientific work and discoveries.

And that is indeed scary, because civilisation is built on science and technology, not on all that New Age stuff.

Mind - its another huge indicator that the people behind this agenda want to see the western world - not just the USA, but Europe as well - brought down to the level of Africa, to better manipulate, rob and tyrannise people.

What? John Q. Public will just find another cause to latch on to. They don't care about science to begin with or else they wouldn't be attaching themselves to this junk science.

The worst case scenario has already happened.

re: #244 Killgore Trout

Bush has not been a science friendly president and I hope to see Obama increase research and science education.

Obama May Cancel Space Shuttle Replacement

U.S. President-elect Barack Obama's NASA transition team is asking U.S. space agency officials to quantify how much money could be saved by canceling the Ares 1 rocket and scaling back the Orion Crew Exploration Vehicle next year

.

/science!