This ought to help win back the affections of the angry left.

And for the media’s purpose, I happen to love gays and straights.

What is that supposed to mean?

“If we’re going to look at suspects, we should look at the groups that benefit the most from these kinds of incidents, and I think we should put the state of Israel on the suspect list because I think this diverts attention from what’s happening in the Palestinian territories so that they can go on with their aggression and occupation and apartheid policies.”

Does Warren know about this?

Birds of a feather.

No wonder BHO picked him.

re: #2 Sharmuta

What is that supposed to mean?

I'm still puzzling over that one. Was he putting the media on notice that he didn't hate gays?

Religion and politics - what a nifty mix-o-fun.

Don't forget, folks. His association with CBBHO goes back to 2002.

re: #4 Bubblehead II

Birds of a feather.?

PIMF!

re: #6 MandyManners

I'm still puzzling over that one. Was he putting the media on notice that he didn't hate gays?

Or straights! Which one is it? Perhaps we're all supposed to be asexual?

He loves muslims. Not much I can add to that. People who want to kill me, I don't actually love them so much.

Will he change the name of his church to Camelback to please his new overlords?

re: #7 debutaunt

Religion and politics - what a nifty mix-o-fun.

I came over to this thread after reading (and posting) on the Boy Scouts.
I'm not sure which side I should be forced to take on Rick Warren.
So I won't.
see ya all later!

re: #8 MandyManners

Don't forget, folks. His association with CBBHO goes back to 2002.

I was WRONG. It's 2006.

While writing his best-selling book "The Audacity of Hope," Obama asked Warren, author of the 2002 bestseller "The Purpose Driven Life," to review the chapter on faith.

The audience cheered him, and many people rose to their feet.

Among the first to stand was singer Melissa Etheridge, a lesbian, who performed for the audience.

/oh noes, something's wrong here!

And for the media’s purpose, I happen to love gays and straights.

So- is he admitting to his own form of taqiyya? "I love gays!" *wink wink*

re: #10 Sharmuta

Could be he means that publicly he loves em, but in private, when the media isn't around he loathes them.

re: #10 Sharmuta

Or straights! Which one is it? Perhaps we're all supposed to be asexual?

I'm beginning to think that Warren wants to have it both ways.

he's still an infidel.

Do the members of that congregation know what Islam calls for?

Bookseller ...meet ...Bookseller ...

re: #2 Sharmuta

What is that supposed to mean?

I think it's just the response to all the "He's a HATER!" rhetoric going on right now. That's just a guess, of course. Maybe he's trying to say something else, wink wink, nudge nudge.

/heh

re: #17 Bubblehead II

Could be he means that publicly he loves em, but in private, when the media isn't around he loathes them.

That's what I was thinking, but why add "straights"? Why add "for the media’s purpose" at all?

Feeding Muslims and Moonbats will soon leave Mr Warren empty.

re: #23 Sharmuta

That's what I was thinking, but why add "straights"? Why add "for the media’s purpose" at all?

Self promotion.

I certainly hope Warren doesn't have sexual indiscretions in his past 'cause someone will drag them up.

We're not going to find him tapping his foot in the men's room, I hope.

re: #25 BignJames

Self promotion.

I'm beginning to think so.

re: #26 MandyManners

I certainly hope Warren doesn't have sexual indiscretions in his past 'cause someone will drag them up.

The media certainly won't go dumpster-diving for his info now that he's BHO approved.

re: #20 MandyManners

Interesting question, The answer is yes. The Assemblies Of God regularly sponser "awareness" seminaries on Islam and show flicks such as Submission and Ali Hirsi's lectures.

re: #26 MandyManners

I certainly hope Warren doesn't have sexual indiscretions in his past 'cause someone will drag them up.

Delicious ...

Did he tell the audience that Jesus is the Son of God? If not, why not? That is at the heart of Christian belief.

re: #30 pat

Interesting question, The answer is yes. The Assemblies Of God regularly sponser "awareness" seminaries on Islam and show flicks such as Submission and Ali Hirsi's lectures.

I hope they start educating themselves.

re: #3 MandyManners

“If we’re going to look at suspects, we should look at the groups that benefit the most from these kinds of incidents, and I think we should put the state of Israel on the suspect list because I think this diverts attention from what’s happening in the Palestinian territories so that they can go on with their aggression and occupation and apartheid policies.”

Had to jump back up to this so I could respond with this.

Israel fires back at Gaza, as Israeli PM vows more

So Israel should just sit back and suck it up when they are being bombarded on an almost daily basis?

I don't think so moron.

re: #31 JacksonTn

Delicious ...

Yes, the irony would be.

re: #25 BignJames

Self promotion.

I was watching this video earlier, where Warren said he had the biggest best seller of all time. It's like he forgot about the very book that gave him a job- the Bible. Not very humble, imo.

re: #30 pat

Is Warren a Pentecostal?

What about the Muslim convention he's gonna' speak at in two weeks?

OK, I think I get where Warren is coming from with Muslims, lets fous on areas of agreemnt & get past where we disagree. So, focus on his & their common agreement about things like the Garden of Eden & get past that stuff about establishing a New Caliphate. That about it?

re: #34 Bubblehead II

“If we’re going to look at suspects, we should look at the groups that benefit the most from these kinds of incidents, and I think we should put the state of Israel on the suspect list because I think this diverts attention from what’s happening in the Palestinian territories so that they can go on with their aggression and occupation and apartheid policies.”

Had to jump back up to this so I could respond with this.

Israel fires back at Gaza, as Israeli PM vows more

So Israel should just sit back and suck it up when they are being bombarded on an almost daily basis?

I don't think so moron.

I don't know what Warren thinks about Israel.

re: #37 BignJames

Assembles are Pentocostal, the largest denomination.

I don't know much about him but what is the difference betwen Jerry Falwell and Rick Warren ...because I know Melissa would never have sung at anything he was speaking to ...

And Charles is right. Warren and his church are big time creationist.

re: #41 pat

Is his church AoG?

Chris Muir gets it right again for today's Day by Day.
In the spin off links. [Link: www.daybydaycartoon.com...]

re: #39 opnion

OK, I think I get where Warren is coming from with Muslims, lets fous on areas of agreemnt & get past where we disagree. So, focus on his & their common agreement about things like the Garden of Eden & get past that stuff about establishing a New Caliphate. That about it?

And, the submission of women and homosexuals and Jews. The bagging of women when they're not confined to the house. The raping of "unchaste" women. The execution of teen girls. The marriage of young girls to older men.

This is why "interfaith dialogue" always makes me nervous. Muslims are very happy to share in the benefits of the Disco Institute's "Academic freedom" bills, Bush's "conscience protection" for medical workers. The common causes between Christians and Muslims often involves hatred of gays, science and atheists. These are not causes I'd like to see advanced.

re: #38 MandyManners

What about the Muslim convention he's gonna' speak at in two weeks?

Do you have a link to that, Hon?

re: #44 pat

And Charles is right. Warren and his church are big time creationist.

Churches generally are, aren't they?

re: #43 buzzsawmonkey

For one thing, Rick Warren is not dead.

spew

re: #48 Killgore Trout

This is why "interfaith dialogue" always makes me nervous. Muslims are very happy to share in the benefits of the Disco Institute's "Academic freedom" bills, Bush's "conscience protection" for medical workers. The common causes between Christians and Muslims often involves hatred of gays, science and atheists. These are not causes I'd like to see advanced.

And occasionally, anti-Semitism.

As a Christian, I am not a fan of Rick Warren at all. I do not like the fact that he is called "America's Pastor" because he sure isn't mine. He espouses some philosophies that do not jive with evangelical Christianity; the emergent church idea is one of them.

Disclaimer: evangelical evolution believing Christian.

re: #49 Sharmuta

Do you have a link to that, Hon?

I first posted this topic on the dead thread right after I heard it on FNC. Gonna' go look for the link.

re: #32 MandyManners

Did he tell the audience that Jesus is the Son of God? If not, why not? That is at the heart of Christian belief.

Is he a Chirstian Preacher/Minster?
Too lazy to Google it. What faith is he?

re: #47 MandyManners

And, the submission of women and homosexuals and Jews. The bagging of women when they're not confined to the house. The raping of "unchaste" women. The execution of teen girls. The marriage of young girls to older men.

Well said. This idea that a few thological agreements are enough to look past all of the heinous things that you just mentioned makes no sense to me.

OT ...GO TITANS!

re: #53 Jetpilot1101

the emergent church idea is one of them.

What's that about?

re: #21 JacksonTn

Bookseller ...meet ...Bookseller ...

Add Oprah to the mix and you have a bookseller's convention --- I wonder if she introduced the two?

re: #52 Sharmuta

That too.

re: #50 capitalist piglet

Churches generally are, aren't they?

The Catholic Church supports the teachings of evolution.

re: #49 Sharmuta

Do you have a link to that, Hon?

The only thing I've been able to find all morning are links to stuff from about 12 days ago. However, I DIDN'T HALLUCINATE what I heard this morning.

re: #55 LindaMarie

Is he a Chirstian Preacher/Minster?
Too lazy to Google it. What faith is he?

He's a Christian preacher.

re: #56 opnion

Well said. This idea that a few thological agreements are enough to look past all of the heinous things that you just mentioned makes no sense to me.

That's what makes me think he's either not read up on Islam or he's into this for self-aggrandizement.

More reasons to love our new hopey changey overlords.

emphasizes need to find common ground

Finding common ground with Muslims is easy and can be done in only two steps.

One. Everything you Infidels do must be done through the prism of Islamic sensitivity. In other words, it's their way or you deserve to die.

Two. Agree that all the evil in the World in the fault of the Jews.

Simple. And it's the only way.

Every other attempt is hopeless.

Now who wants to line up to find common ground with Muslims?

I'm not religious, nor agree with Warren on a lot of issues, but I don't see the problem with reaching out to those you disagree with on some things.
For example, Warren does not agree with BHO on everything and he reverse.
Warren, nor BHO agree with Muslims on all issues. A perfect example is the fact that not only did the Muslims invite Warren, the had lesbian singer perform. They accepted that the singers voice was more important then their disagreement with her sexual orientation.
If we only associate with those we agree with on all issues, we'll have a small group to deal with. As a agnostic, I should not be using Christ as a example, but my impression was that he did not shun sinners, he loved them.

re: #40 MandyManners

I don't know what Warren thinks about Israel.

Take a wild guess.

Some info about Rick Warren ...his father was a Baptist preacher ...

[Link: christianity.about.com...]

re: #55 LindaMarie

Is he a Chirstian Preacher/Minster?
Too lazy to Google it. What faith is he?

He's obviously not read the Qur'an which, in the spirit of anti-Christ, denies the Father and the Son.

re: #50 capitalist piglet

Churches generally are, aren't they?

Not all churches. The Kid goes to a school that is based on a fundamentalist church but, they teach evolution in science classes, and the Bible in chapel.

re: #58 Killgore Trout

What's that about?

Essentially it's trying to create the Kingdom of God on earth prior to Jesus' return through human works. It also preaches really melding with the current culture rather than living apart from it and trying to convert others to christianity. Watered down Christianity is the best way I can describe it.

Emergent Church

The link above is a good summary of the differences between emergent church folks and Calvary Chapel who believes in a more traditional Christianity.

I wonder if Rick loves Bukhari from MPACUK:

UK Muslim Extremist Exposed on Facebook
Asghar Bukhari, a regular speaker for Muslim Public Affairs Committee of the UK appears frequently on television as a “moderate” muslim in interviews. This week he got caught out in a rant on facebook, and Damian Thompson of the Telegraph has confirmed with Bukhari himself that he stands by the statement :

“Muslims who fight against the occupation of their lands are ‘Mujahadeen’ and are blessed by Allah. And any Muslim who fights and dies against Israel and dies is a martyr and will be granted paradise … There is no greater oppressor on this earth than the Zionists, who murder little children for sport.”

[Link: noblesseoblige.org...]

re: #72 Jetpilot1101

Essentially it's trying to create the Kingdom of God on earth prior to Jesus' return through human works.

Ah, ok. These are the folks that tend to view Israel as their own personal doomsday machine, We get them here on occasion.

re: #68 opinionated

Take a wild guess.

From what I found this morning.

Here’s Rick’s FOX commentary:

Hannity: Ahmadinejad denies the Holocaust, wants to wipe Israel off the map, is seeking nuclear weapons…I think we need to take him out.

WARREN: Yes.

HANNITY: Am I advocating something dark, evil, or something righteous?

WARREN: Well, actually, the Bible says that evil cannot be negotiated with. It has to just be stopped. And I believe…

HANNITY: By force?

WARREN: Well, if necessary. In fact, that is the legitimate role of government. The Bible says that God puts government on earth to punish evildoers…

[Link: www.richardsilverstein.com...]

Separation of church and state! IT'S A THEOCRACY!

I think there is a difference within all denominations and faiths of individuals who beelive they are one of many ,called to do G-d's work and those who believe they are individually chosen to benefit from doing G-d's work.

re: #63 MandyManners

He's a Christian preacher.

Not sure at all he is anyway near the Catholic Church I grew up in or the other Christian Churches I have visited with friends

So he believes in a young earth, big deal.
I am more concerned with his acceptance of speaking to MPAC.

re: #71 MandyManners

Not all churches. The Kid goes to a school that is based on a fundamentalist church but, they teach evolution in science classes, and the Bible in chapel.

Well, thanks - I guess I was thinking more of sermons on Sunday, and less about schools. That makes sense.

re: #23 Sharmuta

I really don't know. Maybe it's because he is a politician in preachers cloths?

re: #78 LindaMarie

Not sure at all he is anyway near the Catholic Church I grew up in or the other Christian Churches I have visited with friends

A link to his church.

Down the page at No. 30 is his opinion on evolution.

re: #68 opinionated

Take a wild guess.

Agin?

re: #81 Bubblehead II

I really don't know. Maybe it's because he is a politician in preachers cloths?

Please. The young-earth creationist has no clothes.

;)

re: #73 Thanos

MPACUK just put up a new defense for that one this morning...
MPACUK Glorify Terror ?

In yet another Islamophobic attack by the so-called ‘Centre for Social Cohesion’ an MPACUK spokesperson, Asghar Bukhari, stands accused of ‘glorifying terrorism’.

But then again anyone who supported the French Resistance in World War II was also glorifying ‘terrorism’. And Ronald Reagan glorified ‘terrorism’ when he honoured the Afghan Mujahedeen who fought the Russian occupation (he even dedicated a space shuttle in honour of them!).

Most people share the belief that when you are attacked it is right to defend yourself and to defend innocent children and those too weak to protect themselves. This is a basic teaching of Islam which all Muslims will agree upon. In fact the UN charter also enshrines the right to self-defence, and the Geneva Conventions protect the right to resistance against Occupation.

…However when Muslims fail to agree that Palestinians should just passively accept the Israeli occupation then we are labeled as glorifying terrorism!

MPACUK is rapidly becoming more radical.

re: #41 pat

Assembles are Pentocostal, the largest denomination.

Warren's church is not AoG...nor is he Pentecostal.

re: #80 capitalist piglet

Well, thanks - I guess I was thinking more of sermons on Sunday, and less about schools. That makes sense.

It's a church-based school, and The Kid attends one of the congregations of that church on Sundays/Wednesdays. I don't recall growing up, or hearing nowadays, that our church got all that fired up about evolution.

re: #34 Bubblehead II

“If we’re going to look at suspects, we should look at the groups that benefit the most from these kinds of incidents, and I think we should put the state of Israel on the suspect list because I think this diverts attention from what’s happening in the Palestinian territories so that they can go on with their aggression and occupation and apartheid policies.”

Had to jump back up to this so I could respond with this.

Israel fires back at Gaza, as Israeli PM vows more

So Israel should just sit back and suck it up when they are being bombarded on an almost daily basis?

I don't think so moron.

US and global media policy toward Israel is breathtaking in its hypocrisy. If the Mexican army decided to lob rockets into El Paso some fine morning, there wouldn't two boards left nailed together or one brick standing on another in Ciudad Juarez by sundown. Yet Israel is supposed to just absorb provocation that would be cause for general war anywhere else.

Btw, I predict a gradual decline in academic and media support for "the Palestinian cause" as falling oil revenues dry up the supply of fellowships, gifts, venture capital, inflated speaking fees and other bribes that have been thrown around so liberally in recent years.

re: #74 Killgore Trout

Ah, ok. These are the folks that tend to view Israel as their own personal doomsday machine, We get them here on occasion.

I think you are correct and basically they believe that if can all just get along and really love Jesus or whatever God you believe in, then God may not have to whack the world. Nice idea but it doesn't jive with the fundamentals of the Christian Doctrine.

re: #40 MandyManners

I don't know what Warren thinks about Israel.

Looks like he's a Christian Zionist. I wonder if he does any work with John Hagee.

re: #52 Sharmuta

And occasionally, anti-Semitism.

I just have to say I don't know any anti-Semitic Christians. I honestly don't.

re: #80 capitalist piglet

Well, thanks - I guess I was thinking more of sermons on Sunday, and less about schools. That makes sense.

Oh, and that school would not teach something with which the church disagreed.

re: #90 Sharmuta

Looks like he's a Christian Zionist. I wonder if he does any work with John Hagee.

Beats me.

re: #89 Jetpilot1101

I think you are correct and basically they believe that if can all just get along and really love Jesus or whatever God you believe in, then God may not have to whack the world. Nice idea but it doesn't jive with the fundamentals of the Christian Doctrine.

Some of the hardcore end-timers are trying to force the Rapture.

Gotta' go. bbiaw

"Although the article doesn’t mention it, Warren has another thing in common with fundamentalist Muslims: a belief in young earth creationism."

Which is PRECISELY the reason why BO is cozying up to him. So he can cast ALL people of faith as young earth creationist nuts.

/*SPIT*

re: #85 Killgore Trout

Thanks, I will update with that.

re: #75 MandyManners

And who is Iran's best friend? Syria. Every bit as evil if not more.

[Link: www.debbieschlussel.com...]

Rick Warren Fetes Syrian Terrorist Tyrant Bashar Assad

re: #40 MandyManners

Well if he is ok with that quote and is hang with muslim organizations, I would have to venture that he ISN'T a friend of Israel.

I could be wrong though.

I suppose Warren and Hagee might not do much with each other- kind of competing for the same audience, though Hagee is more anti-islamist, iirc.

re: #90 Sharmuta

Looks like he's a Christian Zionist. I wonder if he does any work with John Hagee.

He is not a Christian Zionist.

He is not a friend of Israel.

re: #90 Sharmuta

Looks like he's a Christian Zionist. I wonder if he does any work with John Hagee.

I think he is more interested in fame and fortune than actually spreading the message of Christ. I'll bet he teaches tithing as something you need to do to be a good Christian so he can keep the money flowing in.

I personally believe in tithing but it's done out of my own desire to bless God with 10% of the 100% He has given me rather than because I am told to do it.

re: #92 MandyManners

Oh, and that school would not teach something with which the church disagreed.

I'm sure you're correct about that. My original remark was to say that you'd have a very hard time finding a Christian church that did not advance a view of God as Creator. Maybe I'm missing some semantics of the term "creationist".

re: #90 Sharmuta

Looks like he's a Christian Zionist. I wonder if he does any work with John Hagee.

I think the point here is his gullibility in buying the idea that MPAC is moderate.

re: #36 Sharmuta

I was watching this video earlier, where Warren said he had the biggest best seller of all time. It's like he forgot about the very book that gave him a job- the Bible. Not very humble, imo.

Warren's changed over the years. At first, God blessed him with the knowledge and thought processes that allowed him to write The Purpose Driven Life, and he hoped that it would help you put things in perspective and become a better person. But it has "evolved" into something else entirely. If you aren't developing into a better human being, then you aren't following Rev. Warren's system correctly.

re: #91 capitalist piglet

The text book from which my husband and I taught "sunday school" had Judaism and Christianity under the same heading in the chapter of world religions. The others were separated out. I thought that was refreshing. The textbooks were chosen by a very old-fashioned RC nun.

In RC school, as a child, I was taught that Jew's were G-d's chosen people and entered into the first Covenant with him. Christians entered into the 2nd. Both are still valid.

You can be gay and attend his church ...but you are not considered a "member" ...

From his website ...

Because membership in a church is an outgrowth of accepting the Lordship and leadership of Jesus in one’s life, someone unwilling to repent of their homosexual lifestyle would not be accepted at a member at Saddleback Church. That does not mean they cannot attend church – we hope they do! God’s Word has the power to change our lives.

A real danger to all of us political and spiritually is the drive in the UN to ban the defamation of religions. It is being pushed primarily by the Islamic countries in the UN.

I could just see The Obama signing on to it.

[Link: blogs.wsj.com...]

[Link: www.dawn.com...]

[Link: www.theamericanmuslim.org...]

This Rick Warren character and his "New age" evangelism (WTF is that?) seems to me to be just the kind of sucker to play into that as well.

A brave new world awaits us where you must not utter a defamatory word or have an impure thought. Submission to the global state and its most predatory religion will be mandated from on high.

Too many will go too willingly into that darkness.

Christians are susceptible to putting their heads on to chopping blocks. Sometimes they think they will get brownie points in heaven for doing so.

I am not one of those types.

re: #107 JacksonTn

Maybe with all the gay people going there he should change the name to the Saddlesore Church.

Have a great day all!

re: #109 rawmuse

Christians are susceptible to putting their heads on to chopping blocks. Sometimes they think they will get brownie points in heaven for doing so.

I am not one of those types.

Hallelujah and Amen!

re: #82 MandyManners

A link to his church.

Down the page at No. 30 is his opinion on evolution.

re: #77 ggt

I think there is a difference within all denominations and faiths of individuals who beelive they are one of many ,called to do G-d's work and those who believe they are individually chosen to benefit from doing G-d's work.

There may be something profound in what you just wrote. A thought to explain some of the world's insanity and inhumanity.
I am, just now, too tired to really think about it. I will email your comment to myself for tomorrow. 10:45 PM and tomorrow is a work day.
After rereading while emailing I do believe you have verbilized a fundamental truth.

re: #85 Killgore Trout

MPACUK just put up a new defense for that one this morning...
MPACUK Glorify Terror ?

MPACUK is rapidly becoming more radical.

what pap. so now war = terrorism. Going to war with uniforms to fight an enemy is the equivalent to a surprise terrorist attack on innocents. Screw him. (There should be a Godwin rule for bringing up Ronald Reagan)

re: #108 Syrah

There's another one of their "common causes". Altough it basically a Muslim effort many Christians will see that as an opportunity to shut down Piss Christ - type artists, comedians, etc. Once again, these common causes are not things that we want to see advanced in Western society.

re: #82 MandyManners

A link to his church.

Down the page at No. 30 is his opinion on evolution.

oops - let's try this again

Apparently he thinks Catholics are misguided - see number 36--

doesn't give much credence to the belief that Christ gave the keys to his kingdom to Peter who was the first Pope and the succession of Popes in the Church continues to this day.

re: #27 capitalist piglet

We're not going to find him tapping his foot in the men's room, I hope.

he'll be washing feet

re: #113 summergurl

The funny thing is both Scripture verses he quotes support evolution and God's creation working side by side 100%.

Again, Rick Warren along with a bunch of other bible scholars want to pigeon hole God into what they think he should be rather then expanding their minds and realizing that it's tough to box God up if you teach he is all omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. Come on Rick, you got to do better than that.

re: #117 summergurl

oops - let's try this again

Apparently he thinks Catholics are misguided - see number 36--

doesn't give much credence to the belief that Christ gave the keys to his kingdom to Peter who was the first Pope and the succession of Popes in the Church continues to this day.

Nor does it give much credence to his belief in "sola scriptura"- a doctrine which is not found anywhere in the Bible...

re: #117 summergurl

oops - let's try this again

Apparently he thinks Catholics are misguided - see number 36--

doesn't give much credence to the belief that Christ gave the keys to his kingdom to Peter who was the first Pope and the succession of Popes in the Church continues to this day.

There are many many folks who think Catholics are misguided.
Listen to very late-night talk radio. Just spin your dial around, and listen to what you hear.

re: #117 summergurl

oops - let's try this again

Apparently he thinks Catholics are misguided - see number 36--

doesn't give much credence to the belief that Christ gave the keys to his kingdom to Peter who was the first Pope and the succession of Popes in the Church continues to this day.

I had to come back.
#36 was the one that startled me, also:

There are many great Christians in the Catholic Church and there have been for thousands of years.

Gee, I really feel better now.

re: #90 Sharmuta

Looks like he's a Christian Zionist. I wonder if he does any work with John Hagee.

What makes you think that?

He's been quoted as saying that Syria is a moderate state that does not support terrorism and treats it's Jewish population well.

He's no friend of Israel.

re: #116 Killgore Trout

There's another one of their "common causes". Altough it basically a Muslim effort many Christians will see that as an opportunity to shut down Piss Christ - type artists, comedians, etc. Once again, these common causes are not things that we want to see advanced in Western society.

I hear you on that.

The Piss Christ does not diminish Christians. It diminishes those who would call it art.

As a hard core radical Christian myself, I would prefer a world where non-believers can insult me freely than one where some "Authority" with a gun can decide who can insult who.

Wow. A whole lot of vituperation here for a guy who is almost inclusive and non-offensive to a fault.

re: #125 Cognito

Wow. A whole lot of vituperation here for a guy who is almost inclusive and non-offensive to a fault.

He wants everyone to hold hands and sing kumbaya without realizing that he is being used as a pawn to spread a global caliphate. I guess he'll figure it out when the axe is about to impact his neck.

Warren, like many Muslims, opposes abortion and same-sex marriage. Lekovic said he was introduced to the council by Orange County Muslim leaders who held an interfaith picnic with his congregation.

But Melissa Etheridge got up and cheered. /Hope and change are blinding.

...

Among the first to stand was singer Melissa Etheridge, a lesbian, who performed for the audience.

re: #126 Jetpilot1101

...he is being used as a pawn to spread a global caliphate. I guess he'll figure it out when the axe is about to impact his neck.

Holey moley, man.

To use the religious term.

re: #125 Cognito

I don't see any violent denunciation Cog, I do see a lot of facts and questioning what's up.

Well- someone got upset with me this morning for mentioning the alliance between some Christian groups and the islamists via ID/creationism. They just don't see the issue as a threat, and they are of course entitled to their opinion.

However- this goes hand in hand with ID in that Warren, with his speech, is helping to mainstream MPAC even while MPAC is radicalizing itself. Is the mainstreaming of jihadist front groups and the spreading of islamist ideology where ever we find it not part of the problem?

re: #125 Cognito

Wow. A whole lot of vituperation here for a guy who is almost inclusive and non-offensive to a fault.

Almost? To a fault indeed!

I'm offended that a well known Christian would stand up before an organization whose founding text denies the deity of Christ and ask (essentially), "Why can't we all get along?"

Unfortunately, a lot of people see him as an example of a believer like I.

Rick Warren on Syria:

"Syria's a place that has Muslims and Christians living together for 1,400 years. So it's a lot more peaceful, honestly, than a lot of other places because Christians were here first.

"In fact, you know Saul of Tarsus – Saul was a Syrian. St. Paul, on the road to Damascus, had his conversion experience and so Christians have been here the longest, and they get along with the Muslims and the Muslims get along with them. There's a lot less tension than in other places.

"It's a moderate country, and the official government rule and position is to not allow any extremism of any kind."

The audio clip can be found here:
[Link: worldnetdaily.com...]

Over the last 7 years, we have been told ceaselessly by the left that George Bush was going to turn the US into a Theocracy.

I guess when democrats want to play footsie with religious folks, it's all good.

re: #125 Cognito

A whole lot of vituperation here for a guy who is almost inclusive and non-offensive to a fault.

See the problem I have with that Cog, is that I don't personally think it's right to be "all inclusive" especially not with people who want to kill you, convert you, or subjugate you. I don't want to be inclusive with them at all.

Good Morning/ afternoon everyone! I just got back from my weekly Sunday breakfast date with an 88 y/o neighbor/friend/client, and few minutes after we sat down, two of her neighbors came in and joined us. A 65 y/o woman and her 90 y/o mom. Both, it turns out are political internet junkies, and conservative. I told them about LGF, and they assured me they will begin lurking today. It came up when they brought up the 0 nitrh certifikit mess, which I explained, and they left with a much clearer understanding of who the troofers were pushing this mess and realizing it was a conspiracy theory with no credibility, which made them eager to come here and lurk. I thought that was pretty cool.

re: #123 MJ

What makes you think that?

He's been quoted as saying that Syria is a moderate state that does not support terrorism and treats it's Jewish population well.

He's no friend of Israel.

Because when I searched his name with "Israel" that what came up. So called Christian Zionism makes me nervous. When I read things like some Christian Zionists are trying to bring about the Rapture, I don't see it as being friendly to Jews. I find it sinister, frankly.

re: #129 Thanos

I don't see any violent denunciation Cog, I do see a lot of facts and questioning what's up.

I took it Cog was referring to Warren.
If so, I tend to agree with Cog.

re: #108 Syrah

This Rick Warren character and his "New age" evangelism (WTF is that?) seems to me to be just the kind of sucker to play into that as well...Too many will go too willingly into that darkness.

Joel Osteen. A lot of my friends almost jump out of their skin when they hear he is going to be appearing in the area, but I can't recall any time I've heard him give a salvation/redemption type message. I don't think it is in him.

"He said people ask him what he prays for when it comes to Obama. “I pray for the president the same things I pray for myself: integrity, humility and compassion,” he said."

0 out of 3 ain't good.

re: #137 jwb7605
I too thought Cog was referring to Warren when I wrote my #134 - I do not wish to be "inclusive" with jihadist. Period.

Rick Warren might be a good guy, I don't know, but I do not like the idea of "Celberty Clergy." It seems to full of hubris for a humble servant of Christ.

re: #139 VegasRick
Yep, Pastor or Rev Manning needs to pray a whole lot harder for Obama and for himself. Especially those integrity and humility things.

re: #141 opnion

Rick Warren might be a good guy, I don't know, but I do not like the idea of "Celberty Clergy." It seems to full of hubris for a humble servant of Christ.

I linked to a video up-thread where Mr. Warren seems to think he has the biggest best seller of all time. That is not humility nor accurate. A real slap in the face of his "Boss" if you ask me.

re: #139 VegasRick

"He said people ask him what he prays for when it comes to Obama. “I pray for the president the same things I pray for myself: integrity, humility and compassion,” he said."

0 out of 3 ain't good.

In Warren? Or in Obama? Both of them are lacking, IMHO.

re: #141 opnion

Rick Warren might be a good guy, I don't know, but I do not like the idea of "Celberty Clergy." It seems to full of hubris for a humble servant of Christ.

I believe there are many motivational speakers who should remain just that without wrapping themselves around religion ...

re: #132 MJ

Rick Warren on Syria:

"Syria's a place that has Muslims and Christians living together for 1,400 years. So it's a lot more peaceful, honestly, than a lot of other places because Christians were here first.

"In fact, you know Saul of Tarsus – Saul was a Syrian. St. Paul, on the road to Damascus, had his conversion experience and so Christians have been here the longest, and they get along with the Muslims and the Muslims get along with them. There's a lot less tension than in other places.

"It's a moderate country, and the official government rule and position is to not allow any extremism of any kind."

The audio clip can be found here:
[Link: worldnetdaily.com...]

What a crock of Sh*t. They are just more subtle then Saudi Arabia (women denied any rights) and Pakistan (in flames).
Syria is not moderate, just bidding it's time and using Lebanon as the "goat".

re: #140 realwest

I too thought Cog was referring to Warren when I wrote my #134 - I do not wish to be "inclusive" with jihadist. Period.

Doesn't sound like I'll be on this thread long ...
I thought Cog's comment was sarcasm.
I got the impression Cog meant that Warren will say one thing for public (favorable press) exposure, but deep down seems to believe and behave otherwise.

COG :: Don't make me defend you here! Gets me in trouble every time.

re: #138 SteveC

I will look into it more. Thanks for the lead.

/ This is just ducky

'Russia sending S-300 parts to Iran'

The S-300 is one of the most advanced multi-target anti-aircraft-missile systems in the world today and has a reported ability to track up to 100 targets simultaneously while engaging up to 12 at the same time. It has a range of about 200 kilometers and can hit targets at altitudes of 90,000 feet.

re: #143 Sharmuta
"I linked to a video up-thread where Mr. Warren seems to think he has the biggest best seller of all time. That is not humility nor accurate. A real slap in the face of his "Boss" if you ask me."
Amen to that! I agree with opnion, it just doesn't seem "right" somehow to have a "celebrity" clergy.

Warren is to religion as Dr Phil is to psychiatry

re: #129 Thanos

Sure, there's that. But there's also the very personal insinuations that he only tithes in hopes of richness, that is in cahoots with radical Islamists, that he is practicing 'taqiyya,' that he is proud instead of humble, and about -- bizarrely -- his sexuality.

Those aren't a carefully reasoned examination of Rick Warren. Those are spit balls.

re: #143 Sharmuta

I linked to a video up-thread where Mr. Warren seems to think he has the biggest best seller of all time. That is not humility nor accurate. A real slap in the face of his "Boss" if you ask me.

Just so. High profile clergy always make me suspect hypocrisy.

re: #141 opnion

Rick Warren might be a good guy, I don't know, but I do not like the idea of "Celberty Clergy." It seems to full of hubris for a humble servant of Christ.

Fox news reporter described Rick Warren as "America's Pastor." Oh, no, he didn't just go there.

As long as Billy Graham breathes, he's the closest thing to America's Pastor that we have.

i wonder if mpac believes him when he says "i love moslems."
it's like being in front of an mpac of hyenas and saying i love hyenas.

re: #145 jacksontn
"I believe there are many motivational speakers who should remain just that without wrapping themselves around in religion ..."
There, fixed that for you!

Pastor Rick Warren, the “new age fundamentalist” preacher picked by Barack Obama to deliver the invocation at his inauguration, gave a speech last night to the new age radical Islamic front group MPAC: Pastor Rick Warren addresses Muslim group, emphasizes need to find common ground.

We are projecting weakness to our enemies even before Jan 20.

This can lead nowhere good.

We are going to repeat the mistakes of the 1930s I am afraid.

By "Here" I'm assuming that Cognito meant here in comments, since his usual first comment criticizes either Charles or LGF commenters, so if I'm misinterpreting please do correct me Cognito. It can be read either way and there's not a sarc tag.

re: #152 Cognito

Here we go...anyone's negative opinion is a "spit ball"

re: #133 FrogMarch

Over the last 7 years, we have been told ceaselessly by the left that George Bush was going to turn the US into a Theocracy.

/that'd take one hell of a series of Constitutional amendments, someone should write a fiction bestseller about it

re: #154 SteveC

Amen! I remember thinking that we were all in deep doo-doo when both '08 presidential candidates declined to meet with the Rev. Graham. Sad, very sad.

See? I told you so.

America doesn't need a pastor

re: #142 realwest

re: #144 SteveC

I agree that they both are lacking, difference is that on a scale of one to ten Warren is about a five while Dear leader is a zero if not worse.

Oh lord, grant me the serenity to ignore the trolls,
the courage to debate with honest opponents,
and the wisdom to know the difference.

Amen

re: #163 Shug

America doesn't need a pastor

But we sure could use a leader.

re: #48 Killgore Trout

The common causes between Christians and Muslims often involves hatred of gays, science and atheists.

You know Killgore, I can't be the only one that tires of your projecting what I feel as a Christian. You're an atheist and I have never tried to profess what your morals, goals or overall agendas are. For you to make this sweeping generalization that Christians hate gays, hate science and hate atheists is absurd and childish.

And at the same time, to try and group Christians with islamic jihadists is beyond the pale.

Grow up.

re: #165 Sharmuta

Oh lord, grant me the serenity to ignore the trolls,
the courage to debate with honest opponents,
and the wisdom to know the difference.

Amen

Gee, wonder where you got that from?

re: #147 jwb7605
Well I don't see why you'd get in trouble over this?!
I mean, usually when one is being sarcastic out here, they use the "/" . Perhaps you're right and Cog thought that his words were sufficiently sarcastic to not require a "/". But I didn't read what he said as being sarcastic at all.

re: #147 jwb7605

I'm all for criticism of public figures -- it's an American tradition. And Warren is a very public figure. I just hope people stay focused on reality, instead of veering off into fantasies about Warren's sexuality, for instance, or his willingness to usher in the caliphate.

That's crazy talk.

re: #168 reine.de.tout

Gee, wonder where you got that from?

Searched high and low for it today.

re: #150 realwest

"I linked to a video up-thread where Mr. Warren seems to think he has the biggest best seller of all time. That is not humility nor accurate. A real slap in the face of his "Boss" if you ask me."
Amen to that! I agree with opnion, it just doesn't seem "right" somehow to have a "celebrity" clergy.

About 30 (maybe 40) years ago, I developed that opinion on Billy Graham, and decided to not draw a conclusion I couldn't justify.
After that length of time, my conclusion is that there is a difference on "Billy Graham" celebrity and "Rick Warren" celebrity (and Joel Osteen celebrity ...), but I can't seem to codify the differences.

Some of it is how Graham didn't go out of his way to get press coverage on his 'sessions' with multiple presidents (and he announced his retirement with Obama ...).

I don't think it will take me 30+ years to evaluate Warren.

I think it would have been far more "honest" if The Obama had picked Jeremiah Wright to give this speech instead of this Rick Warren.

20 years should count for something.

Kudos to Ratzinger...
Pope praises Galileo's astronomy

Pope Benedict XVI has paid tribute to 17th-Century astronomer Galileo Galilei, whose scientific theories once drew the wrath of the Catholic Church.

The Pope was speaking at events marking the 400th anniversary of Galileo's earliest observations with a telescope.

He said an understanding of the laws of nature could stimulate appreciation of God's work.

In 1992, Pope John Paul said the church's denunciation of Galileo's work had been a tragic error.

re: #170 Cognito

Yes, but you are practicing your own brand of it. I find "a lot" and "vituperative" to be a bit over the top.

re: #159 BignJames

Here we go...anyone's negative opinion is a "spit ball"

Not at all. Negative opinions get the job done.

But not all negative opinions were created equal.

re: #169 realwest

re: #170 Cognito

I rest my case and throw myself on the mercy of the court.

100% of Top International Terrorists are Muslim-- But Please Don't Equate the Two

re: #167 ornery elephant

And at the same time, to try and group Christians with islamic jihadists is beyond the pale.

Uh, have you noticed the topic of the thread?

It's all just another chapter in "The Profit-Driven Life." Warm, fuzzy, New Age pseudo-spirituality with a veneer of Christianity. He very shrewdly saw the tide turning to socialism and decided to position himself as a Christian that leftists could approve of, which basically makes him no Christian at all, IMO.

re: #118 Shug

he'll be washing feet

Yes, probably. I was making a joke, I kind of regret it now.

re: #107 JacksonTn

You can be gay and attend his church ...but you are not considered a "member" ...

From his website ...

Because membership in a church is an outgrowth of accepting the Lordship and leadership of Jesus in one’s life, someone unwilling to repent of their homosexual lifestyle would not be accepted at a member at Saddleback Church. That does not mean they cannot attend church – we hope they do! God’s Word has the power to change our lives.

CHANGE!

re: #166 Sharmuta

But we sure could use a leader.

Direct and to the point. Sharmuta wins!

re: #172 jwb7605
Yeah, I was thinking about Billy Graham when I wrote my comment.
And I don't think anyone can seriously deny that he was a "celebrity" but the difference - at least to me - between him and Warren is that Graham never seemed to me to be all about Billy Graham - although I must confess that I never really listened to him very much, nor did I read his books.

re: #172 jwb7605

About 30 (maybe 40) years ago, I developed that opinion on Billy Graham, and decided to not draw a conclusion I couldn't justify.
After that length of time, my conclusion is that there is a difference on "Billy Graham" celebrity and "Rick Warren" celebrity (and Joel Osteen celebrity ...), but I can't seem to codify the differences.

Some of it is how Graham didn't go out of his way to get press coverage on his 'sessions' with multiple presidents (and he announced his retirement with Obama ...).

I don't think it will take me 30+ years to evaluate Warren.

What I found out about Billy Graham is that he is a very humble man. He considered himself more of a sinner than a saint.

re: #177 jwb7605
LOL! But we still don't know if Cog was being sarcastic with his post!
From this end,mercy granted! LOL!

re: #184 realwest

I think it's the humility coupled with sincerity - people tell Billy Grahm jokes all the time, including many Christians, but I"ve never seen a Rick Warren joke.

re: #184 realwest

I think the big difference between Graham and Warren -- and why I so favor Graham -- is that he steadfastly focused on Christ, and resisted powerful efforts to drag him into the political realm. Warren hasn't resisted in the same way, and I think that's a mistake.

re: #184 realwest

Yeah, I was thinking about Billy Graham when I wrote my comment.
And I don't think anyone can seriously deny that he was a "celebrity" but the difference - at least to me - between him and Warren is that Graham never seemed to me to be all about Billy Graham - although I must confess that I never really listened to him very much, nor did I read his books.

Ditto.
When he was 'just getting started', I saw huge potential for downsides.
He pleasantly surprised me, although I also confess to paying as much deep attention as yourself.

re: #173 Syrah
Not to even mention that Obama credits Wright, in Obama's first book, as his (Obama's) personal savior and the man who brought him back to Christianity.

re: #173 Syrah

I think it would have been far more "honest" if The Obama had picked Jeremiah Wright to give this speech instead of this Rick Warren.

20 years should count for something.

Now THAT would have been one helluva inaugurational motivational verbiageational program!

/Wonder what he would have said.

re: #191 gettinby

Now THAT would have been one helluva inaugurational motivational verbiageational program!

/Wonder what he would have said.

"g-d damn amerika"

re: #168 reine.de.tout

Gee, wonder where you got that from?

Hey Toots! You asked me a question on the thread downstairs. I will answer it here.

No. Red Velvet cake has healing properties (much like the "Essence" or the Fifth Element). Had you sent me real cake, I am sure I would be fine today.

So.

It is your fault.

re: #179 Killgore Trout

Uh, have you noticed the topic of the thread?

I thought the thread had to do with Rick Warren specifically, reaching out to Muslims.

Lots of folks here seem to think Mr. Warren has created his own "brand" of Christianity, that has little in common with the Christianity practiced by - well, at least me, and perhaps many others here.

To say that "Christians" are allied with islamic jihadists just isn't accurate at all.

I want to know what in the hell happened that it seems like many people are finding the need right now to go speak to muslim groups ...I mean why now ...so Obama is going to pick a site to speak to muslims ...what kind of photos will that make ...if he is before 200,000 muslims like in Berlin ...I am for peace but I am not so sure about this ...

re: #190 realwest

Not to even mention that Obama credits Wright, in Obama's first book, as his (Obama's) personal savior and the man who brought him back to Christianity.

Obama's chicken, coming home to roast.

Billy Graham wasn't in the business for himself (not that I'm a Graham expert). For example, when he moved his headquarters our of Mpls, a local paper did a story on it. One of the jobs done there was to give away money and other assistance to those in need who requested it. Few knew this as he didn't put out a press release telling everyone when money was given out.

As far as avoiding controversy...he wouldn't even get on an elevator with a female type, unless there were others on said elevator.

re: #193 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Oh, so sorry FBV!
Next time, promise, I'll send a real one.

re: #185 Steve
and
re: #187 Thanos
and
re: #188 Cognito
and
re: #189 jwb7605
Wow - four folks actually agreed on something in writing in the comments! LOL!
I think all those posts and comments are Spot On.

Americas preacher, to me, would be a preacher no one had ever heard of. Preaching to Gospel of Christ to people that would not be allowed to clean Rick Warrens pool or detail his Mercedes. He would be humble in spirit and be completely Christ centered... in other words, not Rick Warren. I'm sorry if I've offended those who like a preacher like Rick Warren, but I just do not buy into the egocentric world of todays TV evangelists.

re: #172 jwb7605

Graham never sought out presidents to advise them. They came to him.

I saw him speak at one of his crusades in the early '90s. He was mesmerizing.

re: #170 Cognito

I'm all for criticism of public figures -- it's an American tradition. And Warren is a very public figure. I just hope people stay focused on reality, instead of veering off into fantasies about Warren's sexuality, for instance, or his willingness to usher in the caliphate.

That's crazy talk.

For the record, my comments regarding Warren and sexuality were jokes, based on the way he expressed himself at this gathering. I was not just kidding, I was one-hundred percent kidding.

I regret it now, because he's taking a lot of criticism on this thread (nothing compared to DU - he doesn't seem to have a single advocate there). I didn't realize there was so much genuine misunderstanding regarding Christianity/Christians here, and I'm disappointed to see that some actually seem hostile to Christians. I usually keep my mouth shut about it, but that doesn't mean I don't see it.

I don't know that much about Rick Warren, but if he's a typical evangelical pastor, he's probably used to this sort of reaction from people. It's not that friendly a job at times.

re: #192 Steve

"g-d damn amerika"

My fellow un-Americans...

The c-h-i-c-k-e-n-s have come home to roost. I told you so, and you and you and you and you who didn't believe me shall ROAST in hell.

/Yum...roasted chicken.

Wow - four folks actually agreed on something in writing in the comments! LOL!
I think all those posts and comments are Spot On.

I guess genius is blind?

re: #190 realwest

Not to even mention that Obama credits Wright, in Obama's first book, as his (Obama's) personal savior and the man who brought him back to Christianity.

Wright died for Obama's sins?

/really rolling downhill now!

re: #171 Sharmuta

Searched high and low for it today.

Why didn't you look here?

re: #194 reine.de.tout

To say that "Christians" are allied with islamic jihadists just isn't accurate at all.

And Killgore didn't say that in #48.

re: #205 SteveC
Wright died for Obama's sins?

Didn't you know, Obama threw him under the bus.

Obama is trying to erase the memory of Rev. Wright by picking a fresh new replacement. I'm quite sure Warren will become the new "presidential spiritual advisor," the role the Billy Graham filled for so many years in decades past, and which people feared Rev. Wright would fill -- at least until Obama threw him under the bus.

But is Warren any better than Rev. Wright? He's certainly different, but he's noxious and kind of creepy in so many other ways, and has a bizarre set of beliefs that don't seem to hang together.

If Warren was a true Christian, wouldn't he want to bring the world to Christ? By saying he "loves Muslims," and speaking enthusiastically at their convention, is he abandoning them to an eternity in Hell, since he quite obviously is doing nothing to convert them? At least Billy Graham was consistent, whether or not you liked him. He was an actual old-fashioned Christian Christian, with an emphasis on salvation and conversion. Warren is one of those phony-seeming gurus who just put on a Christian mask to assume the aura of sanctity.

I don't trust him one bit. Yet he is going to have access to the White House. When Obama has to pray with someone before nuking Pakistan, it's Rick Warren he's gonna call in to help him make the decision.

re: #201 doppelganglander

Graham never sought out presidents to advise them. They came to him.

I saw him speak at one of his crusades in the early '90s. He was mesmerizing.

Excellent point.
My mother was one of those "mesmerized" by him when I was very young.
Later, my mother became Catholic.
[Link: WWWT?...] (_{what would warren think})

re: #198 reine.de.tout

But, FYI, that was one of the few times my wife has ever laughed out loud when I showed her a link from here.

re: #207 Sharmuta

And Killgore didn't say that in #48.

Maybe the word "some" might have helped in that comment ...

re: #190 realwest

Not to even mention that Obama credits Wright, in Obama's first book, as his (Obama's) personal savior and the man who brought him back to Christianity.

Its seems that for The Obama the other people in his life and world are disposable props valued and used for what he can profit from them at any given moment.

Wright has become an embarrassment not because Wright has done or said anything out of his character, but because it no longer profits The Obama to have others associate him with Wright's brand of spiritualism.

20 years of close association mean nothing to The Obama. The Obama is about the Now, the Moment, the Immediate Goal. He is a most pragmatic person.

re: #194 reine.de.tout

To say that "Christians" are allied with islamic jihadists just isn't accurate at all.

Interfaith dialogue and the common causes between Muslims and Chistians (cited above) make me nervous. I have yet to see Christian/Muslim interfaith dialogues produce any ideas which I endorse. Seethe all you want but I still don't like the results.
See also: Evangelical Leaders Pledge Common Cause with Islam

You can endorse these ideas or pretend they don't exist, that's your choice. To claim that I'm an asshole for not liking it is absurd.

re: #48 Killgore Trout

The common causes between Christians and Muslims often involves hatred of gays, science and atheists. These are not causes I'd like to see advanced.

Where do you get this crap?

re: #209 zombie

He should have picked this guy, it would have been fun!

re: #204 Steve
I am NOT blind.
Nor, apparently, very humble!
:)

re: #212 jacksontn

I probably should have kept my nose out of it.

“Let me just get this over very quickly. I love Muslims. And for the media’s purpose, I happen to love gays and straights.”

Tell how you feel about Jews, too, but first be sure to leave the auditorium so the audience's boo's can't be heard.

re: #207 Sharmuta

And Killgore didn't say that in #48.

Of course I didn't. Seething and claims of hurt feelings is a tactic to stifle debate.

re: #137 jwb7605

I took it Cog was referring to Warren.
If so, I tend to agree with Cog.

I'm always amazed that cog (a writer) writes such confusing statements.

re: #209 zombie

But is Warren any better than Rev. Wright?

I'd say that's a big 'yes.' Any way you examine it.

If Warren was a true Christian, wouldn't he want to bring the world to Christ? By saying he "loves Muslims," and speaking enthusiastically at their convention, is he abandoning them to an eternity in Hell, since he quite obviously is doing nothing to convert them?

Loving them may be the best way to bring them around. After all, Jesus himself spent a great deal of time loving people.

At least Billy Graham was consistent, whether or not you liked him. He was an actual old-fashioned Christian Christian, with an emphasis on salvation and conversion. Warren is one of those phony-seeming gurus who just put on a Christian mask to assume the aura of sanctity.

Very possibly true. Although I would argue that Graham spent just as much energy and time loving people. 'Witnessing' and 'loving' do not exclude each other.

re: #48 Killgore Trout

The common causes between Christians and Muslims often involves hatred of gays, science and atheists. These are not causes I'd like to see advanced.

Muslims are taught to hate, period. Christians are taught to hate the sin. If a Christian hates the sinner then I would challenge their Christianity or their interpretation of the Bible.

re: #209 zombie
Hey zombie! Another excellent comment!

re: #215 ciaospirit

I've cited examples. Charles provided examples up top, and others on this thread have provided examples. Read the thread.

re: #209 zombie

Good post. Both Obama and Warren are a bit too calculating for my liking.

the (mpac) moslems have come so far. what great 'moderates.'
they are able to tolerate the presence of melissa etheridge,
in order to further their stealth jihad.

re: #217 realwest

I am NOT blind.
Nor, apparently, very humble!
:)

Have a merry Christmas! ;-)

re: #213 Syrah
Hi Syrah! The Obama is about the Obama. Period.

I notice that everybody edits the examples out of my quote then wants to seethe about lack of evidence.

re: #210 jwb7605

Excellent point.
My mother was one of those "mesmerized" by him when I was very young.
Later, my mother became Catholic.
[Link: WWWT?...] (_{what would warren think})

I don't know what Warren would think, but I'm pretty sure Billy Graham would be pleased. The anti-Catholic bigotry is another thing I dislike about certain stripes of evangelical Christianity.

re: #228 Steve
Same to you!

A Common Word

re: #220 Killgore Trout

Of course I didn't. Seething and claims of hurt feelings is a tactic to stifle debate.

Well, and so are claims that a person's response is "seething" or expressed "hurt feelings", when my post was neither.

For Palin fans, a team of their own

Across Shannon McGinley's hometown of Bedford, N.H., this fall, women were talking about politics.

At school gatherings and Bible study groups, women who had never followed political affairs were talking about a woman like them -- a conservative mother trying to balance family and career.

It started when the Republican presidential nominee, Sen. John McCain of Arizona, selected Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin for his running mate.

Now, more than a month since the political spotlight has turned away from the failed GOP ticket and the running mate who rallied so many conservatives, some of those whom Palin drew to the political arena are seeking to keep a conversation going. This includes TeamSarah.org, a social networking site launched in September.

Palin's emergence in national politics touched a group of women who hadn't connected with other female politicians, who usually were Democrats, said Barbara Burrell, a researcher at Northern Illinois University who focuses on women and politics.

/on noes, this uppity Christian woman just won't go away!

re: #230 Killgore Trout

I notice that everybody edits the examples out of my quote then wants to seethe about lack of evidence.

Yes, your post was indeed edited, and I responded based on part of what you wrote that someone else posted.

However, my response was not "seething", nor did it express "hurt" feelings.

I'd be more comfortable if people would use words like "appears to be" rather than "is". We can not possibly know what is in people's hearts until we see their fruits.

We saw the fruits of Wright, his church does some good, but his church also teaches to hate. Warren has a pretty gentle way about himself. I've read one of his books, was not self-serving in the least.

Just my opinion. Say what you want to say.

re: #36 Sharmuta

I was watching this video earlier, where Warren said he had the biggest best seller of all time. It's like he forgot about the very book that gave him a job- the Bible. Not very humble, imo.

Did he surpass this?

The familiar observation that the Bible is the best-selling book of all time obscures a more startling fact: the Bible is the best-selling book of the year, every year.

re: #214 Killgore Trout

Interfaith dialogue and the common causes between Muslims and Chistians (cited above) make me nervous. I have yet to see Christian/Muslim interfaith dialogues produce any ideas which I endorse. Seethe all you want but I still don't like the results.
See also: Evangelical Leaders Pledge Common Cause with Islam

You can endorse these ideas or pretend they don't exist, that's your choice. To claim that I'm an asshole for not liking it is absurd.

Well, I made no such claim (that you are an asshole). Please show me where I did. Please link to where I said you were an "asshole". Please link to my "seething".

I am not in favor of Christian/Muslim interfaith dialogues, and you are correct, they do not produce results that I like at all.

But again - show me where I "seethed", show me where I expressed "hurt" feelings, show me where I said you were an asshole. Go ahead. Provide the link, dammit.

Maybe Obama should have just his said his own invocation ...he tried to speak like a preacher in many of his speeches so I am thinking he has it down pretty good ...

re: #238 ciaospirit

O'Reilly is giving it a run ...
;-)

Killgore, I think the problem is that people read your comment and felt that you were not merely criticizing aspects that happen to be common to Christianity and Islam -- a dim view of abortion, for instance -- but rather people think you were equating the two religions.

The first possibility -- common aspects -- is debatable. I would argue that no, Christians don't hate gays, atheists and science. I'd say, indeed, that hatred is perpendicular to the Christian faith. There will, of course, always be crazies.

The second possibility -- the equation of Christianity and Islam -- is not debatable, and I'm assuming it would be a misinterpretation of your post.

re: #222 Cognito

Loving them may be the best way to bring them around. After all, Jesus himself spent a great deal of time loving people...Very possibly true. Although I would argue that Graham spent just as much energy and time loving people. 'Witnessing' and 'loving' do not exclude each other.

If the members of MPAC thought for one second that Rick Warren was up there on stage at their own all-Muslim convention and was trying to convert everyone in the room to Christianity, either overtly or using "stealth evangelism," they'd kick him out the door in two seconds flat. I'm quite sure that Warren agreed (it was probably his idea to say so, even) to NOT say anything that could be construed as anything even remotely evangelical.

re: #221 debutaunt

I'm always amazed that cog (a writer) writes such confusing statements.

It's the passive agressive poet trapped inside...

re: #237 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'd be more comfortable if people would use words like "appears to be" rather than "is". We can not possibly know what is in people's hearts until we see their fruits.

We saw the fruits of Wright, his church does some good, but his church also teaches to hate. Warren has a pretty gentle way about himself. I've read one of his books, was not self-serving in the least.

Just my opinion. Say what you want to say.

Yes, good point. Those fruits, as your put it, are not to be overlooked.

re: #230 Killgore Trout
Well I think the problem is, Killgore, that you seem to lump Christians who are "Creationists" and "Biblical Literalists" as being the same as ALL Christians and that quite clearly - if nowhere else but in the comments to all of the ID/Disco threads - is not correct.
I am a Christian. I believe in God and in Jesus Christ. I also believe in Evolution. I don't believe that the ID'er's or early earth or whatever (usually also lumped, I think unfairly,with all evangelicals) people represent "Christian's" in general.

[Link: www.powerlineblog.com...]

Have we discussed?

Those European "youths" are at it again, this time in Sweden. That's how the BBC identifies them: "Swedish city hit by youth riots."

The city is Malmo, in southern Sweden, where vehicles and barricades are burning for a second consecutive night:
...
In the caption to this photo, Reuters helpfully explains that the fire is being extinguished by policemen because "the fire department considered the area to be too risky to enter with their personnel:"
...
She said the trouble was linked to the closure of an Islamic centre. The owner of the building, in an immigrant neighbourhood, had decided not to renew the centre's lease. The centre, which included a mosque, had to move out.

re: #244 Thanos

It's the passive agressive poet trapped inside...

Anything can be misunderstood.

re: #243 zombie

From appearances, if you are an MPAC Muslim, Warren is there to affirm Dhimmitude. That is what pisses me off.

re: #225 Killgore Trout

I've cited examples. Charles provided examples up top, and others on this thread have provided examples. Read the thread.

So a handful of "examples" on one blog makes it universal truth? The crockpot simmers.

re: #248 Cognito

Anything can be misunderstood.

I don't understand.

/

re: #238 ciaospirit

Did he surpass this?

According to himself- yes.

re: #243 zombie

If the members of MPAC thought for one second that Rick Warren was up there on stage at their own all-Muslim convention and was trying to convert everyone in the room to Christianity, either overtly or using "stealth evangelism," they'd kick him out the door in two seconds flat. I'm quite sure that Warren agreed (it was probably his idea to say so, even) to NOT say anything that could be construed as anything even remotely evangelical.

A sellout?

I would LOVE to actually hear or read his speech. Is it available (did I miss something)?

re: #248 Cognito

Anything can be misunderstood.

Obtuse much?

re: #243 zombie

If the members of MPAC thought for one second that Rick Warren was up there on stage at their own all-Muslim convention and was trying to convert everyone in the room to Christianity, either overtly or using "stealth evangelism," they'd kick him out the door in two seconds flat. I'm quite sure that Warren agreed (it was probably his idea to say so, even) to NOT say anything that could be construed as anything even remotely evangelical.

No, he would be an idiot to stand up and announce the hell-bound nature of each person in the room. It wouldn't bring anyone to Christianity; indeed, it would harden their hearts against it.

I'm outta here for lunch y'all - have a great day!

Folks, Rick Warren is doing what Jesus did: he walked among the outcasts, ate with publicans and sinners, stopped the stoning of an adulteress. While we (and I) disagree with some (many) of his actions and statements, he is spreading the Word of God.

Jesus said," Go into all the world and preach the Good News to all creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned" (Mark 16:15).

So he talks to Muslims and Lesbians. WWJD?