Fannie Hurst

Better stand.

To quote redc1c4, "I am not cynical, just experienced".

/or as I used to say, I am not cynical, just a realist.

Cynicism has two parents -- an ideology that fails, and an ego too fragile to admit it.

re: #2 BlueCanuck

Are you experienced? Well, I am.

What would you call an optimistic cynic?

re: #5 Sharmuta

What would you call an optimistic cynic?

Is there such a creature?

re: #6 BlueCanuck

Is there such a creature?

Must be such a creature somewhere. LOL

I am out lizards, tomorrow is a work day.

Sharmuta, I soaked those apples in vodka for the fruit cup. Left them on the side bar for ya...>

Happy Holidays, everyone!

Yeah! Winter solstice has arrived! The days can now start getting longer.

It's darn cold here. We got more than a foot of snow.

re: #9 winston06

Which area of Canuckistan do you hale from?

re: #9 winston06

There was a Lizard on the last thread that I think could use some input from you concerning Iran. Would you mind taking a look?

re: #7 Pvt Bin Jammin

Thanks for the help, Sweetie!

Drive by posting cause I'm off to bed and I know it might be a little late, but:

חנוכה שמח

re: #12 Sharmuta

No problemo ;). Hope Little Old Lady is having a good vacation.

Nite.

re: #10 BlueCanuck

Torontonistan!

re: #11 Sharmuta

sure. I'll be glad. Where?

But, it takes a worried man to sing a worried song.
Good night, Lizards!

The term 'cynic' comes from Cygnus, the Dog Star, and it literally means 'doglike'. And what is Dog Philosophy? "If you can't fuck it, fight it, or eat it, piss on it." It's a bleak, solipsistic, nihilistic view. It tears down everything and builds nothing.

I prefer to consider myself a sceptic. I do uncritically not accept bald, unsupported assertions, but I am willing to be convinced by credible supporting evidence. The best empirical scientists are methodological sceptics.

re: #15 winston06

Hope you aren't driving around out there. The TTC is bad enough. :p

re: #19 BlueCanuck

I did a bit of driving tonight. Awful!

re: #11 Sharmuta

There was a Lizard on the last thread that I think could use some input from you concerning Iran. Would you mind taking a look?

Checked the discussions. FYI: There's no MODERATES within the Iranian regime.

"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing."

Also I am now watching the "War Story on Fox News with LTC Oliver North"

re: #21 winston06

Checked the discussions. FYI: There's no MODERATES within the Iranian regime.

I meant the moderates in the population being oppressed. Not the regime, Dear.

re: #24 Sharmuta

I got that. The regime sponsored reform (aka Khatami, Rafsanjani... etc) is just a big farce. On the other hand, the vast majority of people in Iran are on our side.

re: #24 Sharmuta

I meant the moderates in the population being oppressed. Not the regime, Dear.

Its a cheap excuse. Moderates can organise and challenge any government. It takes a means and will to do so. At the moment they see the current Iranian leadership as a boostrap to a new Persian Islamic Empire. And thats why there are no moderate voices.

re: #26 Buster Bunny

Not when they shoot the opposition at first sight. Not a chance without a strong external support.

re: #26 Buster Bunny

Bootstrap is the missing word.

re: #28 Buster Bunny

You're wrong. There's no LINK between the Persian/Iranian identity of the nation and the Islamic identity. Islamofascists invaded PERSIA 1450 yrs ago and forced all to convert to their barbaric religion. The Persian identity of the people of Iran still resent that invasion

My understanding is a large part of the iranian population is quite pro-American.

re: #17 rawmuse

But, it takes a worried man to sing a worried song.
Good night, Lizards!

Nite R

re: #29 winston06

You're wrong. There's no LINK between the Persian/Iranian identity of the nation and the Islamic identity. Islamofascists invaded PERSIA 1450 yrs ago and forced all to convert to their barbaric religion. The Persian identity of the people of Iran still resent that invasion

And they also resent the Arabs who sit in power at the moment calling themselves the true representatives of the Iranian leadership. They also resent the Persian Gulf being called by the middle east the ARABIAN GULF which is incorrect as far as they are concerned. But it still doesnt mean that these crappy Arabs in power hold the lure of a new 'Persian' presence, and if you actually watched Iranian TV you'd know that.

So that means if you are clever you will be a cynical always but if you are wise you will cynical sometimes?

re: #30 Sharmuta

oh sure... check this one

[Link: www.iranian.com...]

re: #30 Sharmuta

My understanding is a large part of the iranian population is quite pro-American.

Agreed, the Iranians I've met in Thailand, Korea, Japan, Cambodia... are quite supportive of American values of technical excellence, individual freedom, rational responsibility...

...but personally aghast at the rampant sexual profligacy and political corruption they perceive to be so seriously staining the American psyche...

re: #30 Sharmuta

My understanding is a large part of the iranian population is quite pro-American.

You would be amazed - Iran was a strong supporter before Carter.

Those who made it out (large pop in LA) are still so.

re: #35 Karridine

Those stains come from the Liberal side of US.

re: #37 winston06

Those stains come from the Liberal side of US.

For the most part, yes, I concur, Winston!

re: #30 Sharmuta

My understanding is a large part of the iranian population is quite pro-American.

And a large part of the United Kingdom still believes they are living in the remnants of a greater Britain. It doesnt take a genius to work out when they arent.

Adolf Hitler held the possibility of a New Third State, of power and wealth above the heads of the German people. For a people who had experienced massive inflation and devaluation of their living standards, the idea of a POWER grab was something that appealed to a greater majority of Germans.

You are confusing the political move of POWER with the will of the people. Power and money still moves people in ways that morality would only like to.

re: #38 Karridine

Pornography, homosexuality, adultery, theft, corruption are NOT American values, as Hollywood and brown-shirt gays want us to believe. American values are the US military's sacrifices, freedom of speech and religion, liberty and individualism. These good values however are not represented by liberal controlled Hollywood...

re: #39 Buster Bunny

Then conditions in Iran might be ripe for a regime change- if they just had some allies willing to help them, supply them with the means to bring it about themselves, maybe we'd see it.

re: #41 Sharmuta

That will not come from the US under Obama. But Israel can definitely help and I hope they do, once their current PM is gone.

re: #29 winston06

You're wrong. There's no LINK between the Persian/Iranian identity of the nation and the Islamic identity. Islamofascists invaded PERSIA 1450 yrs ago and forced all to convert to their barbaric religion. The Persian identity of the people of Iran still resent that invasion

Don't know. Ayatollah Khomeini took after emulating Mohammed with no problem. The Ayatollah Khomeini of Iran himself married a ten-year-old girl when he was twenty-eight. Khomeini called marriage to a prepubescent girl “a divine blessing,” and advised the faithful: “Do your best to ensure that your daughters do not see their first blood in your house.

re: #39 Buster Bunny

The appeal of eating every day is a strong motivator that will often override morality. It is hard to tell what evil a truly starving population will embrace. Not an excuse just a reality.

re: #43 Outrider

your point?

somebody is dinging down my comments... talking about some cheap personal grudges. LoL

Do we have a liberal here?

re: #44 Metal Man

The appeal of eating every day is a strong motivator that will often override morality. It is hard to tell what evil a truly starving population will embrace. Not an excuse just a reality.

This leadership of Iran has absorbed BILLIONS of dollars in oil revenues and skimmed the top off it quite successfully without any accountability. There are some mullahs in the regime that have more money than Saudi Princes. And they spend it like butter.

going to sleep

good night

re: #45 winston06

your point?

The Ayatollahs Islamic revolution had no problem embracing the worst aspects of the Islamic identity. Overthrowing the Shahs westernization programs and reverting back to the "old ways" of strict Islamic law seems to indicate a connection to the Arabic Islam even though they were not Sunnis.

re: #46 winston06

somebody is dinging down my comments... talking about some cheap personal grudges. LoL

Do we have a liberal here?

Apologies Winston.

I missed one.

re: #46 winston06

somebody is dinging down my comments... talking about some cheap personal grudges. LoL

Do we have a liberal here?

doubt it is the same person down dinging Buster Bunny eh?
///

re: #47 Buster Bunny

But much like me the people of Iran don't know that since they don't spend it on yachts like the Saudis.

re: #51 Outrider

doubt it is the same person down dinging Buster Bunny eh?
///

Thank you Outrider. He may be putting my karma in the crapper. But lets face it .. he has double the posts. I may lose a pint of karma, but he has a gallon to redeem.

re: #52 Metal Man

But much like me the people of Iran don't know that since they don't spend it on yachts like the Saudis.

suspect you are correct as the Iranians don't seem to be a very ostentatious people. But their current regime spends an inordinate amount of money on militaristic funding, although I seem to remember reading they do subsidize everyones gas so it is dirt (sand) cheap there.

Guess I signed on in time to hit the ass end of a dead thread. Bummer. ;-/>

re: #55 Outrider

It's not dead, it's sleeping.

re: #54 Outrider
They buy off the populace just like our politicians do. Since the price per barrel dropped and the fact they need to buy refined gas etc. from abroad it may just put a hitch in their giddy up soon.

re: #56 BlueCanuck

It's not dead, it's sleeping.

maybe it needs a couple of shots of this coffee I got here? ;-)>

re: #57 Metal Man

They buy off the populace just like our politicians do. Since the price per barrel dropped and the fact they need to buy refined gas etc. from abroad it may just put a hitch in their giddy up soon.

I suspect it is putting the regime in a real quandary and I have no problem with that. Some of the sanctions should really start to hurt pretty soon with oil so low.

Most analysts including ex-Iranians say that an invasion to liberate Iran would cause a patriotic reaction, even if they hate the regime. This is even what the Shah's son in California said.

re: #59 Outrider

The entire world economy will make sanctions much more effective. Look for the UN and Obama to try to lessen that effect on the Marxist states as best they can. Iran is close enough for the UN no doubt it will be a test for Obama.

re: #57 Metal Man

They buy off the populace just like our politicians do. Since the price per barrel dropped and the fact they need to buy refined gas etc. from abroad it may just put a hitch in their giddy up soon.

Heh - Ven, China, Iran, and all the rest have their proverbial tit in the ringer since it went below $74.

It's going to get interesting.

I wonder what happened to the tankers floating around when they were stockpiling with when it was high.

Here's a recent US Army-sanctioned paper describing how the US military would justify quelling future US domestic disturbances:

KNOWN UNKNOWNS: UNCONVENTIONAL “STRATEGIC SHOCKS” IN DEFENSE STRATEGY DEVELOPMENT
By Nathan Freier
November 2008

Document Page 18:

"... disruptive civil violence, natural disasters, and epidemics are expected on the near- to mid-term strategic horizon. They will occur around the world. The defense-relevant shock comes when one of these occurs or two or more of these combine in ways that force DoD to fundamentally reorient strategy, capabilities, investments, and concepts in response.

By way of example, realist calculation indicates that epidemics and widespread civil violence might be tolerable in some parts of the world. Shock would result if these occurred inside the United States or inside a key strategic partner to such an extent that they forced DoD to radically re-role for domestic security, population control, consequence management, and stabilization."

Document Page 32:

"While likely not an immediate prospect, this is clearly a “Black Swan” that merits some visibility inside DoD and the Department of Homeland Security. To the extent events like this involve organized violence against local, state, and national authorities and exceed the capacity of the former two to restore public order and protect vulnerable populations, DoD would be required to fill the gap. This is largely uncharted strategic territory.

Widespread civil violence inside the United States would force the defense establishment to reorient priorities in extremis to defend basic domestic order and human security. Deliberate employment of weapons of mass destruction or other catastrophic capabili¬ties, unforeseen economic collapse, loss of functioning political and legal order, purposeful domestic resistance or insurgency, pervasive public health emergen¬cies, and catastrophic natural and human disasters are all paths to disruptive domestic shock.

An American government and defense establishment lulled into complacency by a long-secure domestic order would be forced to rapidly divest some or most external security commitments in order to address rapidly expanding human insecurity at home. Already predisposed to defer to the primacy of civilian authorities in instances of domestic security and divest all but the most extreme demands in areas like civil support and consequence management, DoD might be forced by circumstances to put its broad resources at the disposal of civil authorities to contain and reverse violent threats to domestic tranquility. Under the most extreme circumstances, this might include use of military force against hostile groups inside the United States. Further, DoD would be, by necessity, an essential enabling hub for the continuity of political authority in a multi-state or nationwide civil conflict or disturbance.

A whole host of long-standing defense conventions would be severely tested. Under these conditions and at their most violent extreme, civilian authorities, on advice of the defense establishment, would need to rapidly determine the parameters defining the legitimate use of military force inside the United States. Further still, the whole concept of conflict termination and/or transition to the primacy of civilian security institutions would be uncharted ground. DoD is already challenged by stabilization abroad. Imagine the challenges associated with doing so on a massive scale at home."

--Note that while the author does make a comment in the article re: supporting and defending the Constitution, he doesn't go so far as to openly admit to advocating a suppression of Posse Comitatus.

--Weren't US Army troops used against US civilians during the infamous Janet Reno barbecue in Waco, Texas, and by what Constitutional authority?
.

re: #60 WF Bach

Most analysts including ex-Iranians say that an invasion to liberate Iran would cause a patriotic reaction, even if they hate the regime. This is even what the Shah's son in California said.

I agree. Supporting elements from within is probably the best approach with Iran. Unless them nukes get too advance, then all bets are off.

re: #61 Metal Man

The entire world economy will make sanctions much more effective. Look for the UN and Obama to try to lessen that effect on the Marxist states as best they can. Iran is close enough for the UN no doubt it will be a test for Obama.

I wish the world would cooperate and join together. The regime would collapse in short order. I'm not convinced Obama will take any concrete steps.

re: #65 Outrider

I wish the world would cooperate and join together. The regime would collapse in short order. I'm not convinced Obama will take any concrete steps.

Nonsense! He's taking a huge, concrete step.

/not the best step, mind you

re: #63 Tamron

Here's a recent US Army-sanctioned paper describing how the US military would justify quelling future US domestic disturbances:

KNOWN UNKNOWNS: UNCONVENTIONAL “STRATEGIC SHOCKS” IN DEFENSE STRATEGY DEVELOPMENT
By Nathan Freier
November 2008

--Note that while the author does make a comment in the article re: supporting and defending the Constitution, he doesn't go so far as to openly admit to advocating a suppression of Posse Comitatus.

--Weren't US Army troops used against US civilians during the infamous Janet Reno barbecue in Waco, Texas, and by what Constitutional authority?
.

No problem. They were also used in 1967 in Detroit, when the 82nd Airborne were deployed to quell the riots.

I'm not convinced Posse Comitatus is all everyone thinks it is.

Ya know- I favor one geniuses proposal - give a choice to all airlines - you may land in England and the US or Iran - but not Iran and any other - make your choice. This crap would be over quick.

Girlie men politicians can't seem to get the huevos to call it.

And because I support regime change in Iran does not mean I support invasion. I believe the Iranians are more than willing and able to do it themselves with assistance in gaining the means.

re: #25 winston06

I got that. The regime sponsored reform (aka Khatami, Rafsanjani... etc) is just a big farce. On the other hand, the vast majority of people in Iran are on our side.

Please provide evidence to substantiate your statement.

Here is what I know:
The vast majority of the Iranian population are Shiite Muslims who:
1. Consider America the great Satan.
2. Cant wait for the return of the Hidden Iman who will destroy Islam's enemies and bring peace
3. In overwhelming numbers go to the mosques on Friday and chant death to America.

If they are on our side, I don't want to see what the ones who hate us do.
If they are on

re: #65 Outrider

I'm convinced he will vote present so the Iranian people are screwed as much as us.

I need to go to sleep so goodnight all.

re: #32 Buster Bunny

...But it still doesnt mean that these crappy Arabs in power hold the lure of a new 'Persian' presence, and if you actually watched Iranian TV you'd know that.

Uhhh... What channel is that?

re: #67 Outrider

No problem. They were also used in 1967 in Detroit, when the 82nd Airborne were deployed to quell the riots.

I'm not convinced Posse Comitatus is all everyone thinks it is.

I believe federal troops were also deployed to California in 92 for some riots and they were deployed along the southwest border for immigration patrols in the late 90s and early 00s.

re: #72 Tamron

Uhhh... What channel is that?

I have a friend who has a second cousin who lives in Tehran and sends him MPEG CDs of the latest shows. Nothing like a little bit of Persian Culture to lighten up a boring afternoon !

re: #30 Sharmuta

My understanding is a large part of the iranian population is quite pro-American.

Please provide evidence... what I do see from time to time is that some students make some noise... kind of like Tiennaman Square in China during 1988.

They made a big noise, but they did not represent a majority and the government crushed them ruthlessly without batting a lid. Kind of like saying, nothing of importance here... move along.

Persian culture... the culture that gave us assasins, eunuchs and a myriad of un-enlightened behaviors.
They are barbarians who believe they have a right to conquer, enslave and subjugate other people. They have warred with their neighbors for millenia in the hope of building an empire.
Let us pray they never achieve technological excellence... if they do, then the state of Israel may soon disappear.

re: #63 Tamron

Here's a recent US Army-sanctioned paper describing how the US military would justify quelling future US domestic disturbances:
... ...
--Note that while the author does make a comment in the article re: supporting and defending the Constitution, he doesn't go so far as to openly admit to advocating a suppression of Posse Comitatus.

--Weren't US Army troops used against US civilians during the infamous Janet Reno barbecue in Waco, Texas, and by what Constitutional authority?
.

I was looking for a link, can't find it while I'm working, but there was a large disturbance post-WWI, in Kansas, and the American Army-AirCorps bombed some of the camps/tents of protesting black Americans...

Iranian Police Shut Down Rights Office

re: #70 shanec99

Please provide evidence to substantiate your statement.

Here is what I know:
The vast majority of the Iranian population are Shiite Muslims who:
1. Consider America the great Satan.
2. Cant wait for the return of the Hidden Iman who will destroy Islam's enemies and bring peace
3. In overwhelming numbers go to the mosques on Friday and chant death to America.

If they are on our side, I don't want to see what the ones who hate us do.
If they are on

1. mosque dwellers are ignorant and go with the flow. they can't read.
2. we all have our fantasies.
3. are ignorant and go with the flow
4. the educated want freedom.
5. most are tired of being beaten down by the goons.
6. the majority are secular.

re: #75 shanec99

Totalitarians do tend to crush dissent, but that shouldn't equate that the people's desire for freedom isn't there. They've been conditioned to keep their mouths shut by the tyrants that rule them. I believe it's human nature to want to live free. That oppressed people keep their mouths shut should not be considered support of their oppressor(s).

re: #76 shanec99

I thought that was the Turks.

re: #76 shanec99

Iranians ALSO have some civilized, morally mature people, and they are NOT ALL Baha'is, Shane...

I'll search for a link, but there ARE blogs online you could skim for yourself... Iranians are hardly a group of eunuch-and-death loving people...

re: #80 Sharmuta

Totalitarians do tend to crush dissent, but that shouldn't equate that the people's desire for freedom isn't there. They've been conditioned to keep their mouths shut by the tyrants that rule them. I believe it's human nature to want to live free. That oppressed people keep their mouths shut should not be considered support of their oppressor(s).

Sharm you are making genarlized assumption... you have not presented any hard data.

re: #70 shanec99

2. Cant wait for the return of the Hidden Iman who will destroy Islam's enemies and bring peace

When the Hidden Imam came, in Iran 1850, He was persecuted BY Muslims, and forced in chains to be imprisoned in the Holy Land, Akka/Haifa, irrevocably binding Iran and Israel in a relationship NOW DENIED and belittled by the Muslim 'leaders' of Iran, Shane

They're still 'waiting' because they haven't been allowed to learn that He has come!

re: #81 Sharmuta

I thought that was the Turks.

Read the history of Assasins Sharm.
Read about the Greco Persian wars... OK to use Hollywood, watch 300.

It will open your eyes.

re: #83 shanec99

Sharm you are making genarlized assumption... you have not presented any hard data.

Nor have I - just personal experience - I have been to and worked in Iran. (Shah era) and have kept up with the community here in the US.

re: #83 shanec99

You haven't presented any data to refute me either.

I think a missing factor in Iran's national political attitude, is their women.

Just how long can the mullah's get away with strongly suppressing 50% of an entire culture, without some kind of a severe karma kick-back down the line?

Never underestimate the power of a woman, and we might be talking about a few million potential Ayaan Hirsi Ali's here. They can't continue scamming their ladies forever.

Yeah, I know, not everyone here is of like mind, but dammit, I'm in a Holiday spirit just now, and have trouble agreeing with flushing EVERYONE in Iran down the toilet. Cut the head off a snake? No problem. Blast everyone in the sandbox to kingdom come? C'mon, now.

Agreed, they'd better damn well make some kind of a show of good faith, and pretty damn soon, too.
.

Hard data that people want to live free...? How about the number of East Germans and Cubans who have died trying to get to West Berlin or America?

How many people have died trying to get INTO China? Soviet Russian? Iran?

re: #88 Tamron

I think a missing factor in Iran's national political attitude, is their women.
Agreed, they'd better damn well make some kind of a show of good faith, and pretty damn soon, too.
.

When the others have all the guns - it may take some time. vs. damn soon.

re: #88 Tamron

Following that thought, the current unemployability of women and the financial chronic bad situation has pushed many women (some estimates as much as 20%) into prostitution to afford bare necessities...

Women are key, were declared equal humans in God's eyes, but Iran (and other Muslim nations) hold on fiercely, as if such repression could turn back the Hand of God...

re: #87 Sharmuta

You haven't presented any data to refute me either.

Sharm I love you... but I am being a skeptic about these claims of friendship from Iranians towards America, provide me objective data, real numbers about overwhelming support for America in a Shiite nation that has sent efps and other weapons to kill Americans and I will lower my skepticism.

Until then, I watch them closely.

re: #93 shanec99

Sharm I love you... but I am being a skeptic about these claims of friendship from Iranians towards America, provide me objective data, real numbers about overwhelming support for America in a Shiite nation that has sent efps and other weapons to kill Americans and I will lower my skepticism.

Until then, I watch them closely.

I believe you are mistaking what the government does for the belief and will of the people. Yes the persian empire was brutal in it's time. But it faded, and all empires were brutal in one form or another. In fact equating the Shah's Iran with the Persian empire is equivalant to equating modern Italy with the Roman empire.

re: #93 shanec99

Sharm I love you... but I am being a skeptic about these claims of friendship from Iranians towards America, provide me objective data, real numbers about overwhelming support for America in a Shiite nation that has sent efps and other weapons to kill Americans and I will lower my skepticism.

Until then, I watch them closely.

Militarily - watch absolutely - the masses in the US and there - cut them some slack.

And watch them closely - for their actions in the past and now. I am not talking about the nut cakes - but those who want freedom.

re: #95 Bobibutu

...but those who want freedom.

Concur your analysis. THESE are the freedom-loving Iranians I've been meeting for more than 40 years, Iranians who do NOT hate America and do, in fact, represent at very least, a significant and large minority in Iran...

re: #93 shanec99

Ok- well, you've shifted the goal posts, We were talking about Iran, and then you bring up China, which is a completely different ball of wax. I go on to state my opinion on human nature's desire for freedom and you come back asking for facts. Now we're back to Iran, and I'm dizzy. I guess the Iranians could be pro-Martian for all I care, I still think it's human nature to want to live in freedom.

I also think nations should keep in mind that countries do not have friends- they have interests. A prime example of that would be France. So of course we should be skeptical- no one's going to look out for America's interests but Americans.

I think it's in America's best interest to defend and support freedom around the world. I won't make excuses for thug regimes anywhere at anytime.

re: #96 Karridine

Concur your analysis. THESE are the freedom-loving Iranians I've been meeting for more than 40 years, Iranians who do NOT hate America and do, in fact, represent at very least, a significant and large minority in Iran...

Roger - question to all ... what % of Iraqis were anti US prior to GWl ... GWll?

What % of Iraqis are anti US now?

What % of Iraqis are happy and proud to have what they have now vs. Saddam?

re: #91 Bobibutu

When the others have all the guns - it may take some time. vs. damn soon.

True. Please know that I was speaking from a viewpoint of seeing a lot of itchy trigger fingers wanting it so; I don't have an axe to grind either way.
.

Ah- here is one of the articles that shows the Iranian youth's embrace of the West:

Heavy Metal Madness in Tehran

re: #99 Tamron

True. Please know that I was speaking from a viewpoint of seeing a lot of itchy trigger fingers wanting it so; I don't have an axe to grind either way.
.

Nor do I and I would volunteer to para in with an itchy trigger finger at age 66.

Or ride a nuke down - al la ... yeehawww

The mullas must go.

I had serious doubts about conceiving a child in 1981. I did not want to have the burden of now - shouldered by my offspring. I did - And here we are.

And that is why I am willing.

FRUITCUP! Over there --->

Enjoy!

re: #94 BlueCanuck

I believe you are mistaking what the government does for the belief and will of the people. Yes the persian empire was brutal in it's time. But it faded, and all empires were brutal in one form or another. In fact equating the Shah's Iran with the Persian empire is equivalant to equating modern Italy with the Roman empire.

Yup. Can't paint the populace with a broad brush. I spent 3 years in Japan in the 1960's and made a lot of decent friends who didn't have a clue what their leadership was doing, and didn't really care. They just wanted the basic things in life that we all want, and were decent folks capable of rational happy thoughts and needs etc., not too unlike the people whom I grew up with back in the States.

The world over, decent people simply don't like assholes. Then our only point here should be, what's Iran's ratio of decent people vs. assholes?

(Hi, Blue. We almost went to Toronto for the Holidays, and I was meaning to look you up and say hi. Maybe next time...)
.

re: #103 Tamron

Yup. Can't paint the populace with a broad brush. I spent 3 years in Japan in the 1960's and made a lot of decent friends who didn't have a clue what their leadership was doing, and didn't really care. They just wanted the basic things in life that we all want, and were decent folks capable of rational happy thoughts and needs etc., not too unlike the people whom I grew up with back in the States.

The world over, decent people simply don't like assholes. Then our only point here should be, what's Iran's ratio of decent people vs. assholes?

(Hi, Blue. We almost went to Toronto for the Holidays, and I was meaning to look you up and say hi. Maybe next time...)
.

Don't know if we crossed paths - Camp Zama - 60s - IBM

As well as ... - damn - names escape me but there was a hell of a view of Mt. Fugi.

re: #104 Bobibutu

Don't know if we crossed paths - Camp Zama - 60s - IBM

As well as ... - damn - names escape me but there was a hell of a view of Mt. Fugi.

Heh. Try Atsugi, about 10 miles from Zama, 63 thru 66. Were you around the ASA guys at all?
.

re: #104 Bobibutu

Don't know if we crossed paths - Camp Zama - 60s - IBM

As well as ... - damn - names escape me but there was a hell of a view of Mt. Fugi.

AF First Weather was there - I fixed all their unit record equipment stuff before moving on to VN. Lordy the haircut girls - I never had my hair cut so often.

Optimism is it's own punishment.

re: #5 Sharmuta

What would you call an optimistic cynic?

that's easy: "redc1c4"

i'm sure things are going to get worse, and i've never been wrong yet. %-)

re: #106 Bobibutu

AF First Weather was there - I fixed all their unit record equipment stuff before moving on to VN. Lordy the haircut girls - I never had my hair cut so often.

10-4 on the haircut girls.

Where'd you go in Nam? I dropped in at DaNang off and on, in 66.

re: #105 Tamron

Heh. Try Atsugi, about 10 miles from Zama, 63 thru 66. Were you around the ASA guys at all?
.

Don't think so - but Atsugi brings back a tingle in my leg. ;-)

re: #102 Sharmuta

Thanks Sharmuta. Good work. ;)

re: #22 SurferDoc

"A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing."

nothing isn't worth very much... if it was, it'd be something.

kinda like putting a value on your missing pants. %-)

re: #103 Tamron

Well if you are ever here let me know. Should be able to fit you in my busy schedule somewhere.

/I think I am busy. . . .

re: #105 Tamron

I never hit Zama, being stuck on an island on the NorK DMZ... with a freak-farm full of 'ASA guys'... 65-68

re: #109 Tamron

10-4 on the haircut girls.

Where'd you go in Nam? I dropped in at DaNang off and on, in 66.

Man I was freekin everywhere including Yankee Station - lived in Saigon -

re: #111 BlueCanuck

But I was late!

re: #108 redc1c4

So- something like "I'm positive it will get worse before it gets better"?

re: #102 Sharmuta

FRUITCUP! Over there --->

Enjoy!

Thanks Sharmuta. Better late than never/

re: #114 Karridine

I never hit Zama, being stuck on an island on the NorK DMZ... with a freak-farm full of 'ASA guys'... 65-68

You poor pussy ;-0

I did the gig from 66 - 70.

/

re: #118 Erik The Red

Thanks, Eric! Though my clock here did say "4:00"...

I'll have to make an adjustment.

re: #110 Bobibutu

Don't think so - but Atsugi brings back a tingle in my leg. ;-)

I remember a Japanese named Goro who worked in electronics maintenance at Atsugi. That guy was a real whiz. He'd even re-wind and rebuild electric motors when we couldn't get the Navy to get us a part in time.

Were you around when the C-121 passenger plane landed at Atsugi without a working nose landing gear? As soon as the main landing gear touched down the pilot had all the passengers head for the back of the plane, and it became a tail-dragger and slowed to a stop amid a shower of sparks. They put a flatbed truck under the nose gear and locked the pins, before the passengers could get out. Didn't hardly hurt the plane at all.
.

re: #117 Sharmuta

So- something like "I'm positive it will get worse before it gets better"?

"gets better"?

you dreamer.

re: #114 Karridine

I never hit Zama, being stuck on an island on the NorK DMZ... with a freak-farm full of 'ASA guys'... 65-68

BYW - thank you for your service. I was a tech pussy supporting you guys.

re: #102 Sharmuta

FRUITCUP! Over there --->

Enjoy!

tastes funny... did you leave your socks in the bowl?

/white smoke

re: #122 redc1c4

"gets better"?

you dreamer.

I'm a cynical optimist. You know- like... rock bottom's not so bad, you can only go up from here.

Like that.

re: #124 redc1c4

tastes funny... did you leave your socks in the bowl?

/white smoke

No- I followed your recipe to the letter.

/blue smoke

re: #123 Bobibutu

Thanks in return... we needed you guys, no doubt... I was there following the USS Pueblo... tall mountain, my ears all over the place, snow on 4th of July (THAT tall)... and the equipment HAD to work, so thanks, Bobibutu! :D

re: #121 Tamron

I remember a Japanese named Goro who worked in electronics maintenance at Atsugi. That guy was a real whiz. He'd even re-wind and rebuild electric motors when we couldn't get the Navy to get us a part in time.

Were you around when the C-121 passenger plane landed at Atsugi without a working nose landing gear? As soon as the main landing gear touched down the pilot had all the passengers head for the back of the plane, and it became a tail-dragger and slowed to a stop amid a shower of sparks. They put a flatbed truck under the nose gear and locked the pins, before the passengers could get out. Didn't hardly hurt the plane at all.
.

Missed that one but had a belly landing at Ahn Khe in a C- 130 where we all walked away - go figure -

Sharmuta, so you were off by one minute. I did it once and was off by 5 minutes.

/littleoldlady has it down to an art form

re: #127 Karridine

Thanks in return... we needed you guys, no doubt... I was there following the USS Pueblo... tall mountain, my ears all over the place, snow on 4th of July (THAT tall)... and the equipment HAD to work, so thanks, Bobibutu! :D

Shit - I was ALL OVER THAT ONE - major fuck up on our side.

re: #126 Sharmuta

No- I followed your recipe to the letter.

/blue smoke

there's the problemo: mine's all numbers...

/hence the blue smoke %-)

re: #125 Sharmuta

I'm a cynical optimist. You know- like... rock bottom's not so bad, you can only go up from here.

Like that.

except that someone ALWAYS shoes up with power tools and high explosives, so they keep digging...

they keep saying something about there being a pony somewhere, but it's always just horseshit.

re: #129 BlueCanuck

I'm just not up to filling litleoldlady's shoes, but I'll keep trying.

Gotta have goals!

re: #133 Sharmuta

I'm just not up to filling litleoldlady's shoes, but I'll keep trying.

Gotta have goals!

Well being only three apples high will make filling those shoes a little hard. ;)

re: #132 redc1c4

They shoe up, huh? Is that why there's boot marks on your ass?

/blue smoke

re: #127 Karridine

Thanks in return... we needed you guys, no doubt... I was there following the USS Pueblo... tall mountain, my ears all over the place, snow on 4th of July (THAT tall)... and the equipment HAD to work, so thanks, Bobibutu! :D

Pueb knew where she was - outside of NK waters - Butcher threw his coffee cup in frustration - my hero. We let him down. Course armed with nukes only as a response was jack.

re: #114 Karridine

I never hit Zama, being stuck on an island on the NorK DMZ... with a freak-farm full of 'ASA guys'... 65-68

Check my avatar -- that's a 7-passenger Navy EA3B Skywarrior recon plane, and four of the passengers on that particular bird were ASA. The antennas on the nose were tuned to receive Russian missile guidance-control signals, and there was a handheld video camera up front to record the re-entry of Ivan's ballistic missiles. That plane generally flew out of Shemya, Alaska but it was seen all around the world, wherever the Russkies decided to aim their test missiles.

Those Army guys had pretty good duty, really.

I didn't ride that particular plane, but was an aircrewman on a similar one. We had a dozen of that model in our squadron. We had some fun flying next to Russian Badgers and flying off aircraft carriers, etc.
.

Hey guys, the comment rating system on this site is amazing. Thanks Charles. Does anyone else have problems with the rating systems on other sites like youtube / digg? My ratings never seem to register

re: #136 Bobibutu

Pueb knew where she was - outside of NK waters - Butcher threw his coffee cup in frustration - my hero. We let him down. Course armed with nukes only as a response was jack.

I had a civilian friend who just missed going on the Pueblo that time. He got diverted to another project so late in the game, that his seabag made it and then when the Norks captured the boat and did an inventory of the crew, they saw his bag but not him, and wondered if he'd jumped overboard.

My squadron is the one that lost the EC-121M Super-Connie to the Norks the next year after the Pueblo incident. 32 guys went to Davy Jones locker, on that one. I was out of the USN by that time, and never did find out why we never retaliated against those assholes for that. The news just suddenly went quiet.
.

ECHO
^ECHO
echo
^echo

re: #139 Tamron

I as you always wonder.

And look for closure.

I had the clearance but not the need to know.

re: #139 Tamron

I had a civilian friend who just missed going on the Pueblo that time. He got diverted to another project so late in the game, that his seabag made it and then when the Norks captured the boat and did an inventory of the crew, they saw his bag but not him, and wondered if he'd jumped overboard.

You were much closer than I - the full story is still waiting.

MORE, ON HISTORICAL USAGE OF FEDERAL TROOPS AGAINST CIVILIANS:

"...The anger of the veteran of the First World War, now without work, his family hungry, led to the march of the Bonus Army to Washington in the spring and summer of 1932. War veterans, holding government bonus certificates which were due years in the future, demanded that Congress pay off on them now, when the money was desperately needed. And so they began to move to Washington from all over the country, with wives and children or alone.

They came in broken-down old autos, stealing rides on freight trains, or hitchhiking. They were miners from West Virginia, sheet metal workers from Columbus, Georgia, and unemployed Polish veterans from Chicago. One family- husband, wife, three-year-old boy-spent three months on freight trains coming from California. Chief Running Wolf, a jobless Mescalero Indian from New Mexico, showed up in full Indian dress, with bow and arrow.

More than twenty thousand came. Most camped across the Potomac River from the Capitol on Anacostia Flats where, as John Dos Passos wrote, "the men are sleeping in little lean-tos built out of old newspapers, cardboard boxes, packing crates, bits of tin or tarpaper roofing, every kind of cockeyed makeshift shelter from the rain scraped together out of the city dump."

The bill to pay off on the bonus passed the House, but was defeated in the Senate, and some veterans, discouraged, left. Most stayed-some encamped in government buildings near the Capitol, the rest on Anacostia Flats, and President Hoover ordered the army to evict them.

Four troops of cavalry, four companies of infantry, a machine gun squadron, and six tanks assembled near the White House. General Douglas MacArthur was in charge of the operation, Major Dwight Eisenhower his aide. George S. Patton was one of the officers.

MacArthur led his troops down Pennsylvania Avenue, used tear gas to clear veterans out of the old buildings, and set the buildings on fire. Then the army moved across the bridge to Anacostia. Thousands of veterans, wires, children, began to run as the tear gas spread. The soldiers set fire to some of the huts, and soon the whole encampment was ablaze. When it was all over, two veterans had been shot to death, an eleven-week-old baby had died, an eight-year-old boy was partially blinded by gas, two police had fractured skulls, and a thousand veterans were injured by gas."

(Do a google search and plug in ANACOSTIA MACARTHUR to see a lot more of the disgusting details. Those were starving veterans, for pete's sake!)

Wow. Bill Clinton's and Janet Reno's wet dream.
.

Chirsto - it's 3 + am

nite all - weet dreams.

Night Bobibutu, may your dreams be peaceful.

Pretty darn quiet around here...

Anyway, came across a touching video.. was going to post it in the spin-offs links as a sort of an art entry... but changed my mind...

Here it is: my title for it is Definition of Sad.

Well, things should pick up shortly once the day shift arrives and gets their daily dose of caffeine.

Morning all. Been lurking a while but how's everyone doing? Oh yeah i accidentally downdinged post 23 while checking out the ding war if anyone wants to go rectify my mistake.
Rustler

re: #146 freetoken

Is that going to make me cry?

Good Morning Lizards from Bleepin Illinois. Bleepin Global Warming all over the place.

re: #148 Rancher

Those are correctable now. Just click the +.

Morning Rustler, opnion. Glad to see some other faces this morning.

re: #151 Sharmuta
Coolies can't down ding Olly.

This morning I'm making sloths look fast storm seems to be moving in. Maybe we will get a few inches of globull warming today.

re: #152 BlueCanuck

Morning Rustler, opnion. Glad to see some other faces this morning.

Hi Blue.

re: #141 Bobibutu

I as you always wonder.

And look for closure.

I had the clearance but not the need to know.

BTW, here's a tidbit for you regarding the shot-down EC-121 in 1969:

30 years afterwards, an ex-USN intelligence-type told me the background behind the shoot-down. Seems that Kim Il-Sung's birthday was coming up and his son Kim Jong-Il wanted him to have a special present, so he secretly arranged for two MiG's to be silently posted at a remote airfield, and sit and wait for one of our birds to come along. When it did, the MiG's scrambled and were radar-vectored -- under radio silence -- up to our big recon plane out over international waters, which they drilled full of holes with 20MM cannon fire and murdered a plane full of Sailors (and one Marine) before our guys even knew anything was wrong. As far as I could tell, they got away with it with no repercussion.

Happy Birthday, papa! (Big smiles all around)

Kim Jong-Il is still the Nork asshole in charge, today.
.

re: #154 Rancher

Another storm? Ummm, which state are you in?

/starts shoveling more coal into the furnace. . . .

re: #149 Sharmuta

Is that going to make me cry?

Well... it is pretty sad... but not to the point of gut wrenching.

re: #157 BlueCanuck
New Mexico

Every Vice president has a project. Aol Gore was to "reinvent" government. Biden will head a task force to save the Middle Class.
We're doomed.

re: #158 freetoken

That was very sad. Wonder what happened to them after the video was done.

re: #159 Rancher

Oh good, so that means we probably won't see that disturbance at all.

/already sick of the dihydrogen monoxide crystals up here.

re: #157 BlueCanuck
I also carry a dual citizenship with the State of Confusion.

re: #162 BlueCanuck
I put in a requisition request for 2 or 3 feet of Hydric acid crystals for ya Blue.

re: #163 Rancher

Gotta be better then my semi location in the State of Frenzy.

re: #165 BlueCanuck
I was banned from there for being to rabid.

It is a good thing that the Movement switched terminology from Global Warming to Climate Change, or you know, they could look a little silly now.

re: #166 Rancher

I use anti-foaming agents to keep a lower profile.

re: #167 opnion

And they don't already? I still hear people espousing the perils of global warming.

/the irony of doing that while shivering in the cold seems to pass them by

re: #161 Sharmuta

That was very sad. Wonder what happened to them after the video was done.

Something tells me they went to became dinner...

/ouch... double sad.

re: #169 BlueCanuck

And they don't already? I still hear people espousing the perils of global warming.

/the irony of doing that while shivering in the cold seems to pass them by

Yeah they use the terms interchageably. Climate Change is the default explanation for your environmental guilt when you are freezing & shoveling snow

re: #130 Bobibutu

Well, it certainly WOULD have been IF the ChiCom hadn't started using the tricked-out encryption machine they captured in the bowels of the Pueblo...

You know, that one machine that ALWAYS sent true-value for one key, allowing near-instantaneous breakout of all messages sent on it?

Yeah, THAT one... in the 7 years ChiCom used it to communicate with USSR, they compromised their entire communication web and more than 80% of their spy network...

Cmdr Bucher led his men, heroically, and he COULDN'T know ahead of time... nor could WE, which is why we were all over that! :D

re: #21 winston06

Checked the discussions. FYI: There's no MODERATES within the Iranian regime.

do the moderates in jail count?

Lets start the morning by not being cynical.

Mexican police on Sunday found nine decapitated bodies and the army identified eight soldiers who had died fighting powerful drug gangs and whose murders were seen as a brazen challenge to the government.

That is awful. I guess Jihadists didn't buy the only franchise of "Humanity Haters".

re: #173 yochanan

do the moderates in jail count?

They will all be moderates in the Iranian regime after Obama sprinkles the pixie dust.

re: #174 Fat Bastard Vegetarian Nope drug cartels have been making a strong push for the Monsters of the year award during this last decade or so. Scarface is just looking like a little kid compared to thiese new cartels.

re: #170 freetoken

/ouch... double sad.

Animal sad is the worst kind of sad. Couldn't watch the whole thing.

Morning lizards!
I am badly remembering a quote about the WASP power structure in Bostom where

the Lodges speak just to the Cabots
And the Cabots speak only to God.

Now we have a political story wherre the three main characters are named Blagojevich, Emmanuel and Obama. So much for the old WASP power structure.

re: #73 Outrider

national guard or reg army? national guard can be under state control

re: #178 Jim in Virginia

"We used to be somebody!"

FBV! How is the wife? Are you home this week?

re: #181 Jim in Virginia

Wife is fine. I am home all week. Yay. How's by you?

The top 10 global warming predictions that weren't

GLOBAL warming preachers have had a shocking 2008. So many of their predictions this year went splat.

Here's their problem: they've been scaring us for so long that it's now possible to check if things are turning out as hot as they warned.

And good news! I bring you Christmas cheer - the top 10 warming predictions to hit the wall this year.

Read, so you can end 2008 with optimism, knowing this Christmas won't be the last for you, the planet or even the polar bears.

1. OUR CITIES WILL DIE OF THIRST

TIM Flannery, an expert in bones, has made a fortune from books and lectures warning that we face global warming doom. He scared us so well that we last year made him Australian of the Year.

In March, Flannery said: "The water problem is so severe for Adelaide that it may run out of water by early 2009."

In fact, Adelaide's reservoirs are now 75 per cent full, just weeks from 2009.

In June last year, Flannery warned Brisbane's "water supplies are so low they need desalinated water urgently, possibly in as little as 18 months".

In fact, 18 months later, its dams are 46 per cent full after Brisbane's wettest spring in 27 years.

In 2005, Flannery predicted Sydney's dams could be dry in just two years.

In fact, three years later its dams are 63 per cent full, not least because June last year was its wettest since 1951.

In 2004, Flannery said global warming would cause such droughts that "there is a fair chance Perth will be the 21st century's first ghost metropolis".

In fact, Perth now has the lowest water restrictions of any state capital, thanks to its desalination plant and dams that are 40 per cent full after the city's wettest November in 17 years.

Lesson: This truly is a land "of drought and flooding rains". Distrust a professional panic merchant who predicts the first but ignores the second.

re: #167 opnion

It is a good thing that the Movement switched terminology from Global Warming to Climate Change, or you know, they could look a little silly now.

You're letting facts and reason get in the way of your analysis. Story on NBC news last week; average winter temperatures in Lapland are two degrees higher than thirty years ago. The massive (yeah, right) increase in average temps means more snow falls which means the reindeer can't dig lichen out from under the snow.

re: #182 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wife is fine. I am home all week. Yay. How's by you?

Doing fine. Working this week but pretty quiet at the office. Family is fine, kids are sassy.

Good morning.

The stock market futures are up fractionally this morning, the Nikkei was up 1.57% and the Hang Seng was down 3.34%

re: #182 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I saw a car yesterday with a license plate that said "LUVCAKE" and I figured it was you, so I waved. You looked at me like I was crazy.

[finger]

Global warming update: It is currently -58 in Yakutsk, Russia. Just so you know...

re: #183 Happy Fun Ball

I like the alarmists who stil revere Paul Ehrlich. The guy who said we'd be running out of food and resources by 1980.

any crit. of the left's shaboliths will get you called a bigot. even happens on LGF.

re: #190 yochanan
/// bigot.

re: #191 Rancher
bah sorry left hand was idle to long.

hello rancher

re: #192 Rancher

So, who are you really?
Real Rancher, or Rustler?

Registration was open last night for awhile.
did ya'll catch it?

re: #189 Jim in Virginia

I like the alarmists who stil revere Paul Ehrlich. The guy who said we'd be running out of food and resources by 1980.

He was correct, actually. Back in 1981, I was driving from Wisconsin to Massachusetts. Somewhere on the New York Thru-Way, I ran out of gas! Sitting on the side of the road waiting for AAA, I noticed my cooler that held my sandwiches and beverages was also empty!

re: #184 Jim in Virginia
Reindeer are used to dealing with wet winters normally during wet years they move further north, Problem is environmentalist cram em in these reserves where they can't migrate to the wet year foraging grounds.

re: #195 sattv4u2

He was correct, actually. Back in 1981, I was driving from Wisconsin to Massachusetts. Somewhere on the New York Thru-Way, I ran out of gas! Sitting on the side of the road waiting for AAA, I noticed my cooler that held my sandwiches and beverages was also empty!

The government should bail you out!

Latest Blago news:

Fundraiser seeks immunity in Blagojevich probe

A key figure in Gov. Rod Blagojevich's alleged scheme to sell a U.S. Senate seat has sought immunity from federal authorities in return for his cooperation in their ongoing probe, the Tribune has learned.

Raghuveer P. Nayak, an Oak Brook businessman and political fundraiser, is the unnamed "Individual D" who prosecutors say was being squeezed by the governor for campaign cash in return for appointing U.S. Rep. Jesse Jackson Jr. to the Senate seat vacated by President-elect Barack Obama, sources said.

This brings some potential heat onto JJJ.

The Tribune has reported that Nayak hosted an Oct. 31 luncheon where he discussed raising $1 million for Blagojevich to help persuade the governor to choose Jackson. The congressman's brother Jonathan appeared at a Nayak-sponsored fundraiser for the governor three days before Blagojevich was arrested.

The congressman has acknowledged speaking with Nayak about his desire for the Senate seat but said he did not endorse and was not aware of a fundraising effort to support his bid.

On Sunday evening, Jackson's lawyer, James Montgomery Sr., reacted to the news of Nayak's bid for immunity by saying, "If that is indeed the case, and if that cooperation relates to my client, then [Nayak] is trying to save his own skin. That's all I have to say."

Montgomery is the same guy who said that Jackson is "entitled" to the Senatorial appointment.

re: #194 reine.de.tout Nope missed it its Rustler.

Here's a good opinion piece: Bleeding Heart Tightwads.

That conservatives give more than liberals is well-trodden ground, but this article contains a few points I found interesting:

When liberals see the data on giving, they tend to protest that conservatives look good only because they shower dollars on churches — that a fair amount of that money isn’t helping the poor, but simply constructing lavish spires.

It’s true that religion is the essential reason conservatives give more, and religious liberals are as generous as religious conservatives. Among the stingiest of the stingy are secular conservatives.

According to Google’s figures, if donations to all religious organizations are excluded, liberals give slightly more to charity than conservatives do. But Mr. Brooks says that if measuring by the percentage of income given, conservatives are more generous than liberals even to secular causes.

In any case, if conservative donations often end up building extravagant churches, liberal donations frequently sustain art museums, symphonies, schools and universities that cater to the well-off. (It’s great to support the arts and education, but they’re not the same as charity for the needy. And some research suggests that donations to education actually increase inequality because they go mostly to elite institutions attended by the wealthy.)

Conservatives also appear to be more generous than liberals in nonfinancial ways. People in red states are considerably more likely to volunteer for good causes, and conservatives give blood more often. If liberals and moderates gave blood as often as conservatives, Mr. Brooks said, the American blood supply would increase by 45 percent.

re: #199 Rancher

Nope missed it its Rustler.

Well, good morning then, nic-of-many-personalities!

Hey blue I heard back on that globull warming update for ya the Crystalized Dihydro monoxide will start falling 15-20 minutes after you finish shoveling the walks near your house.

re: #201 reine.de.tout
Morning to you too.

re: #187 Sharmuta

Well, I do like cake.

More on this guy Nayak from my #198 post link:

Federal and state election reports show Nayak, his wife and his businesses for the last decade have donated more than $779,000 and raised hundreds of thousands more for candidates ranging from the Cook County Circuit Court clerk to President-elect Barack Obama. He has contributed primarily to Democrats but has given money to some Republicans as well.

Nayak also has been a notable contributor and fundraiser for three statewide officials who have been among the governor's harshest critics since the scandal broke—Atty. Gen. Lisa Madigan, Lt. Gov. Patrick Quinn and Treasurer Alexi Giannoulias.

And he wants immunity?

Nayak is good friends with the Jackson family:

Nayak's connections to the Jackson family go back years. Not only has he been a longtime political supporter of Rep. Jackson, he's traveled with the congressman's father, Rev. Jesse Jackson, to India and he's partnered with the congressman's brother, Jonathan, on a failed land deal. Records also show Jonathan Jackson's former cellular phone business used office space at a Gold Coast facility owned by Nayak.

Nayak's businesses have faced multiple audits by state and federal authorities since he first opened his Chicago drug stores in the early 1980s, according to interviews and records. In addition, his name came up repeatedly in one of the largest health-care fraud investigations in Illinois history.

Nayak was never charged in that case, or any other.

Nayak has had his problems with the authorities though:

In 1987, Nayak was suspended for 60 days from the state's public aid program after auditors concluded nearly 22 percent of billings at one of his pharmacies were fraudulent. In 1989, state auditors reported concerns that Nayak was giving free airline tickets to doctors who sent business to NR labs, which he has since sold. And in 2001, Nayak returned $20,000 in a federal Medicaid fraud lawsuit in Indiana.

And so the fun will continue.

re: #202 Rancher

You are just a ray of sunshine this morning aren't ya. :D

/besides that's the normal laws up here. it will stop snowing when you finally get home, it will rain when you forget your umbrella. . . .

re: #200 gregg
I finally quit giving blood. Every time I do I get a nice thank you letter from Red Cross Central saying sorry your not elegible due to Anthax yellow fever and the 28 other vaccinations I got prior to shipping to Korea the middle east et al. Yet the dudes in the van always say I'm in hte clear.

re: #204 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Carrot Cake?

re: #204 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

FBV ,, how's your wife doing? (she had a medical problem awhile back IIRC)

Good Morning LGF.

And Happy Channukah to all Jewish Lizards and their scaly families.
Channukah celebrates the armed revolt and successful liberation of Israel by the Jews from under Greek rule, and the rededication of the Great Temple in Jerusalem. Channukah is also known as the Festival of Lights to commemorate the miracle of the burning of the one-day supply of holy oil for eight days during the purification of the Temple, until more oil could be supplied.

Today as Israel stands against the existential threat posed by the Persians and the Arabs, this inspirational holiday has a special significance for the Jewish people.

Lock and load, Israel!

say you support traditional religious values AND THEN JUMP OUT OF THE WAY.

even though I am not a Christian I often feel a lot more comfortable in the company of religious Christians than I ever do with liberal secularists of any background. As some of their values are the same as mine.

re: #207 Rancher

I finally quit giving blood. Every time I do I get a nice thank you letter from Red Cross Central saying sorry your not elegible due to Anthax yellow fever and the 28 other vaccinations I got prior to shipping to Korea the middle east et al. Yet the dudes in the van always say I'm in hte clear.

ummm,,, not to rain on your parade, but if YOU know you're gong to get rejected ,, why go and give?

Took dog out to pee this morning, really cold here (15f or so). Went out a few minutes ago to get trash out (dog, who normally goes crazy and tries to go out with me every time the door opens) dog sat in his blanket pile and just gave the the most animated "are you nuts!?" look he ever gave me.

re: #209 sattv4u2

Doing great.

Good morning, Lizards!

I stop by to ask and verify most of the Vaccinations when administered had only 5 or 10 year wait lists which is what the van documentation usually collaborates but at the top level it get rejected after testing since they always flag my blood as having received the Vaccinations. Plus it should be ok for use on other people who have received said vaccinations.

re: #215 goddessoftheclassroom

Good morning, Lizards!

Welcome GOTC

re: #202 Rancher

Hey blue I heard back on that globull warming update for ya the Crystalized Dihydro monoxide will start falling 15-20 minutes after you finish shoveling the walks near your house.

damn dangerous stuff kills almost as many people as the wet version

re: #215 goddessoftheclassroom

Good morning, Lizards!

Are you on secular holiday?

re: #216 Rancher

and again I ask,, KNOWING that it's always rejected "at the top level",,, (and with no gauruntee that if it did get thru that it would ONLY be administered to someone who has had those vaccinations) ,,, why bother!?!?!

Oh yeah Happy Chistmakwanzanakahnonsecularholiday.

Morning Lizards-

Found a link to the Cheney Fox News Sunday interview--
Biden not my BFF

re: #215 goddessoftheclassroom

Good morning, {goddess}.

re: #220 sattv4u2
Which is why I have since stopped. Giving blood is no big deal takes maybe 15 minutes, doesn't hurt, and my body produces like there's no tomorrow.

re: #198 3 wood

Latest Blago news:

Fundraiser seeks immunity in Blagojevich probe

Montgomery is the same guy who said that Jackson is "entitled" to the Senatorial appointment.

And where is this in my local paper or the MSM? It is apparent that the news that come out from this investigation is being stifled or held to the Chicago area.

re: #219 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Are you on secular holiday?

{FBV}
No, we have a 2 hour delay because the wind chill id down to -20. Our winter break starts Wednesday.

Good morning {goddess}, I am now done for the day. Talk about timing. Well my relief is here and I am out the door looking for that warm bed and pillow. Stay scaly and warm fellow lizards.

re: #223 Sharmuta

Good morning, {goddess}.

{Sharmuta}

re: #223 Sharmuta

Hey Sharmuta!

US-Afghan operation kills 20 insurgents

Go Good Guys, go!

re: #227 BlueCanuck

Good morning {goddess}, I am now done for the day. Talk about timing. Well my relief is here and I am out the door looking for that warm bed and pillow. Stay scaly and warm fellow lizards.

{BlueCanuck}

re: #229 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

LMAO!

re: #224 Rancher

Which is why I have since stopped. Giving blood is no big deal takes maybe 15 minutes, doesn't hurt, and my body produces like there's no tomorrow.

Maybe I'm, not explaining my piont well enough. I give blood at every chance. I would NOT give blood if for some reason the Red Cross started to reject for fear that IF something was wrong with it (even IF people with the innoculations could have it) that it would be ACCIDENTLY administered to someone that it should NOT be administerd too

re: #226 goddessoftheclassroom

{FBV}
No, we have a 2 hour delay because the wind chill id down to -20. Our winter break starts Wednesday.

Then I must ask..."Is is cold enough for ya?"

re: #217 sattv4u2

Welcome GOTC

{satt4u2}

re: #224 Rancher

Which is why I have since stopped. Giving blood is no big deal takes maybe 15 minutes, doesn't hurt, and my body produces like there's no tomorrow.

sort of reminds me of when I went to give blood the day after sept 11 with one of my sons. Over the years I have had so many needles stuck in me I am used to it. the LOUD MOUTHED MACHO BOY all but fainted.

re: #234 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Then I must ask..."Is is cold enough for ya?"

Heh.

re: #233 sattv4u2
Which is why I quit. I may try again in a couple years and see but at the time My belief was I hadn't quite waited long enough. After my 5th rejection they elaborated that antibody levels in my blood were still too high.

I've given gallons of blood. Never had a problem. Don't do it often enough.

re: #239 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I've given gallons of blood. Never had a problem. Don't do it often enough.

Red Cross has me on Speed Dial!

re: #225 summergurl

And where is this in my local paper or the MSM? It is apparent that the news that come out from this investigation is being stifled or held to the Chicago area.

They are focused on making sure you think Obama is from Hawaii.

I ask you, who is the connection between these people?:

1. Rev. Jerimiah ("G** D*** America!) Wright
2. Rod (FU!) Blagojevich
3. William (unrepentant terrorist) Ayers
4. Rahm (FU!) Emanuel

Yet the media is busy trying to re-make his past. If this was a conservative with all these connections, it would be leading he nightly news every day.

re: #236 yochanan

sort of reminds me of when I went to give blood the day after sept 11 with one of my sons. Over the years I have had so many needles stuck in me I am used to it. the LOUD MOUTHED MACHO BOY all but fainted.

Where I used to work, there would be a blood drive about once a year.

It was odd, but the fainters were almost always the men.

I think they would try to be macho and get up too quickly.

re: #241 3 wood 4. Rahm (FU!) (DeadDeadDead)Emanuel. Fixed for ya.

re: #241 3 wood

Mornin' Wood.

Wait. There's a connection between those four? They're so...so...so... diverse.

re: #242 reine.de.tout
Ding ding ding we have a winner. Plus men are usually less well hydrated than women.

re: #242 reine.de.tout

Where I used to work, there would be a blood drive about once a year.
It was odd, but the fainters were almost always the men.
I think they would try to be macho and get up too quickly.

LOL. I have never fainted but I never look when they stick in the needle.

re: #244 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
Lol FBV tmi there go to the potty and get back to us.

re: #242 reine.de.tout

if you have had a I.V. in your arm for 2 weeks the 15 mins for giving blood is a piece of cake.

re: #242 reine.de.tout

Women are always complaining about men being such babies (including my wife).

I have a friend who says, "Never trust anything that bleeds for five days and doesn't die!"

re: #241 3 wood

They are focused on making sure you think Obama is from Hawaii.

I ask you, who is the connection between these people?:

1. Rev. Jerimiah ("G** D*** America!) Wright
2. Rod (FU!) Blagojevich
3. William (unrepentant terrorist) Ayers
4. Rahm (FU!) Emanuel

Yet the media is busy trying to re-make his past. If this was a conservative with all these connections, it would be leading he nightly news every day.

And add Rezko

re: #249 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

expect major incoming for that one

re: #241 3 wood

They are focused on making sure you think Obama is from Hawaii.

I ask you, who is the connection between these people?:

1. Rev. Jerimiah ("G** D*** America!) Wright
2. Rod (FU!) Blagojevich
3. William (unrepentant terrorist) Ayers
4. Rahm (FU!) Emanuel

Yet the media is busy trying to re-make his past. If this was a conservative with all these connections, it would be leading he nightly news every day.

Lets be fair now! Those are all just "people in the neighborhood" that you would just "see" every so often!

Nothing To See Here ,,, Move Along!

re: #251 yochanan

Whaaa? Me? Just repeating what someone else said. That makes me "un-whackable". Wait! It doesn't make me...OUCH!...

re: #251 yochanan

expect major incoming for that one

There are no words to describe what I am feeling right now -

A little stunned---

re: #248 yochanan

if you have had a I.V. in your arm for 2 weeks the 15 mins for giving blood is a piece of cake.

I have a regular IV treatment every 4 weeks, for six hours, for a medical condition.

But they would never take blood from me . . . they tell me I have "scrawny veins".

re: #249 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Women are always complaining about men being such babies (including my wife).

I have a friend who says, "Never trust anything that bleeds for five days and doesn't die!"

Dare you to post that next time Mandys in the vacinity!

re: #250 summergurl

and saul alinsky.

re: #251 yochanan

expect major incoming for that one

LOL!
Do you know how funny you are?

This might be Rustlers last day using my account.

Real Rancher

re: #249 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Women are always complaining about men being such babies (including my wife).

I have a friend who says, "Never trust anything that bleeds for five days and doesn't die!"

Sounds like a great friend ya got, there.
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