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Christmas Becomes a Holiday in Iraq

World | Thu, Dec 25, 2008 at 10:42:03 am PST

A pretty amazing gesture from the Iraqi government to the country’s Christians: For first time, Christmas official holiday in Iraq.

BAGHDAD — Iraq’s Christians, a scant minority in this overwhelmingly Muslim country, quietly celebrated Christmas on Thursday with a present from the government, which declared it an official holiday for the first time.

(Hat tip: Lawhawk.)

But many Christians in Iraq remain under constant threat from omnipresent Islamic militias: At Christmas, Iraq Christians eye uncertain future UK.

Christians, who with Yazidis, Shabaks and others make up Iraq’s fragile minorities, marked perhaps their safest Christmas since 2003 on Thursday, but many still talk of a precarious future in a nation at risk of backsliding into civil war.

Iraqi Christians, believed to number around 750,000, have been targeted like others in Iraq’s 28-million, mainly Muslim population by the horrific violence since the 2003 invasion. Their plight often gains heightened attention in the West. Reliable figures are hard to find on how many Christians are among the millions who have fled the country, but some Christian leaders warn of a threat to the existence for their community.

A series of high-profile attacks against Christians in the northern city of Mosul this fall prompted the flight of thousands of families and fuelled a fear of being singled out.

“Christians have no political ambitions and they don’t have militias to defend themselves. They are peaceful people,” Thaier al-Sheikh, the pastor of the Sacred Heart church, said as he sipped tea in his rectory.

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69 comments

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1 opnion  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:42:46am

uh huh, hope that it lasts

2 TheMatrix31  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:43:45am

So proud of it. Merry Christmas to all!

3 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:45:18am

That this was even contemplated shows the breadth of change that has happened and what is possible.

4 Sharmuta  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:45:39am

Righteous are those persecuted in His Name's sake.

May the Iraqis and everyone have a beautiful Christmas.

5 JohnnyReb  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:45:46am

A very nice gesture, but I wonder how long it will last when we leave?

6 debutaunt  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:45:51am

The tyranny that Iraq has been is evolving, slowly.

7 shanec99  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:46:47am

Isnt it wonderful. Christianity was well established in Mesopotamia well before Islam was founded... and people are upset that Christians can celebrate Christmas... isn't it ironic?
[Link: gatewaypundit.blogspot.com...]

8 quickslow87  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:47:19am

Merry Christmas!

9 shanec99  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:47:21am

re: #4 Sharmuta

You hit it right on the head.

10 lifeofthemind  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:48:10am

They may be a "scant minority" now but that is only because of genocidal cleansing by Islamists. 60 years ago Baghdad was almost a third Jewish and the country was almost a quarter Christian. The relentless pressure on other communities is built in to Islam. It defines what the religion is.

11 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:48:25am

It's certainly not a perfect situation but considering the neighborhood (Saudi Arabia, Iran, et al) it has turned out pretty well. We should all be counting our blessings that we tied up Iraq before Obama got into office. This could have turned out very badly.

12 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:48:46am

re: #9 shanec99

You hit it right on the head.

Hope it didn't leave a mark. ;)

(Just couldn't resist a bit of PUNishment)

13 yochanan  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:49:23am

well there is no future for jews in muslim or euro countries. so christians should see what happens to us as a example.

14 gettinby  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:49:46am

re: #11 Killgore Trout

And...let's hope and pray that when he IS in that he doesn't eff it up.

15 shanec99  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:50:06am

re: #12 FurryOldGuyJeans

Hope it didn't leave a mark. ;)

(Just couldn't resist a bit of PUNishment)


She can hit me anytime she chooses... marks or not.

16 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:50:21am

re: #11 Killgore Trout

It's certainly not a perfect situation but considering the neighborhood (Saudi Arabia, Iran, et al) it has turned out pretty well. We should all be counting our blessings that we tied up Iraq before Obama got into office. This could have turned out very badly.

It still can, but at least the Iraqis are a bit more secure in their footing so it will indeed make it harder for Our Messiah-King to tip them over.

17 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:50:56am

re: #7 shanec99

Zombie mentioned the other day that it's odd that they adopted a Westernized version of Christmas (trees, Santa, etc) instead of maintaining indigenous Christmas traditions. It is odd.

18 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:51:52am

re: #16 FurryOldGuyJeans

It's still possible but I think Iraq is stable enough now that it's very unlikely that Obama will screw it up.

19 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:52:17am

re: #17 Killgore Trout

Zombie mentioned the other day that it's odd that they adopted a Westernized version of Christmas (trees, Santa, etc) instead of maintaining indigenous Christmas traditions. It is odd.

I would guess it would make it more palatable to import than resurrect age-old traditions.

20 swamprat  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:52:44am

A gesture, maybe, but it's a start. a very welcome start.

21 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:53:03am

re: #18 Killgore Trout

It's still possible but I think Iraq is stable enough now that it's very unlikely that Obama will screw it up.

Not for lack of trying on His part, I would conjecture.

22 shanec99  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:53:26am

re: #13 yochanan
I lived in Italy for a while... didnt notice any anti-semitism there... I am sure there is some, because there are still people who think Mussolini was great... but they are a tiny minority, and I never heard of any anti-semitism come out of their party.

23 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:54:02am

re: #19 FurryOldGuyJeans

It would at least be interesting to know what those traditions were. I'd guess it was a little more like Coptic Christianity.

24 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:54:20am

re: #20 swamprat

A gesture, maybe, but it's a start. a very welcome start.

Mighty oaks come from little acorns, and this is not something little. Official recognition of anything not Islamic is momentous.

25 Hooray for Captain Spaulding  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:54:49am
“Christians have no political ambitions and they don’t have militias to defend themselves. They are peaceful people,” Thaier al-Sheikh, the pastor of the Sacred Heart church, said as he sipped tea in his rectory.

Maybe they should have both.

26 shanec99  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:55:26am

re: #17 Killgore Trout

Zombie mentioned the other day that it's odd that they adopted a Westernized version of Christmas (trees, Santa, etc) instead of maintaining indigenous Christmas traditions. It is odd.

At least they are doing what they want to. TV sattelite dishes are ubiquituos in Iraq... they can't help but see and be influenced by the western images of Christmas.

27 David IV of Georgia  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:55:53am

Bagdad used to have a huge Christian population 800 years ago and be the residence of the Nestorian Patriarch...
This is a great achievement, but it seems almost silly praising them for allowing Christians to be Christians. But considering the history of the region, this is a huge concession.
I hope this kind of tolerance doesn't fade away when the West is no longer looking...

28 BeckoningChasm  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:57:26am

Iraqi Christians...have been targeted like others in Iraq’s 28-million, mainly Muslim population by the horrific violence since the 2003 invasion.

Yeah, Muslims never targeted members of other religions before 2003. (Rolls eyes.)

Merry Christmas, everyone, and Merry First Christmas to the Iraqis.

29 Erik The Red  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:57:28am

Good night Lizards and a very Merry Christmas to you all. Boxing Day for me tomorrow. Have to work in the AM than off to the beach. Thank you Charles for this wonderful forum, hope you have a good one.

30 lifeofthemind  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:57:53am

re: #17 Killgore Trout

Zombie mentioned the other day that it's odd that they adopted a Westernized version of Christmas (trees, Santa, etc) instead of maintaining indigenous Christmas traditions. It is odd.

The most distinctive tradition in Mesopotamian Christianity was Nestorianism. However the region has always had a vitality that came from being a melting pot where trade and ideas connected. Otherwise they would still be worshipping a rock. Oh, never mind that.

Related for NY area lizards or bearers tourist dollars, go see the Beyond Babylon exhibit at the Met.

31 shanec99  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:58:15am

re: #25 Hooray for Captain Spaulding

Maybe they should have both.


That is not true... Christianity has a strong political tradition in Iraq... Tariq Azzis for example (he was Saddam Hussein's Foreign Minister) was Christian.

32 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 10:59:28am

re: #28 BeckoningChasm

It's yahoo! doing the reportage, so any breadth of historical background beyond the Dictatorship of Bush would be a moot point.

33 Catttt  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:00:14am

Merry Christmas, Iraq! Another step forward in the direction of tolerance.

I paged through the Yahoo pics. My favorites were the Iraqis on the street grinning at the GI in the Santa hat and mask (he also had the right basic shape). Also, two claws up for the brave Iraqi cops protecting the Christian churches.

34 Bubblehead II  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:00:28am

OT, but some good news out of Lebanon.

LAF defuses 7 Katyusha rockets on verge of being launched

Lebanese troops on Thursday discovered seven Katyusha rockets set up with timers that were on the verge of being fired near the border with Israel.

35 lifeofthemind  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:00:57am

For what my opinion is worth (crickets...crickets) I thought that giving Iraq a constitution that enshrined sharia was a big step back. It gained us no friends and weakened the position of religious minorities.

36 swamprat  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:01:41am
37 lifeofthemind  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:02:05am

re: #34 Bubblehead II

OT, but some good news out of Lebanon.

LAF defuses 7 Katyusha rockets on verge of being launched

Lebanese troops on Thursday discovered seven Katyusha rockets set up with timers that were on the verge of being fired near the border with Israel.

Terrific, what a surprise, bet that none career enhancing move has repercussions.

38 opnion  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:02:34am

If Bush has created a stable democracy, that is tolerant in the heart of Arabia, he will deserve praise. It would go a long way in helping in the WOT.

39 Dustyvet  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:03:31am

re: #31 shanec99

That is not true... Christianity has a strong political tradition in Iraq... Tariq Azzis for example (he was Saddam Hussein's Foreign Minister) was Christian.


Tariq Aziz,
member of the Iraqi Revolutionary Command Council
5th Deputy Prime Minister[1]
In office
July 16, 1979 – April 9, 2003
Succeeded by Jay Garner, as Head of the Coalition Provisional Authority
Foreign Minister
In office
1979 – 1991
Born April 28, 1936 (1936-04-28) (age 72)
Tel Keppe, Iraq
Political party Ba'ath Arab Socialist Party
Religion Chaldean Catholic

The Chaldean Catholic Church or the Chaldean Church of Babylon (Arabic: الكنيسة الكلدان& #1610;ة‎, al-kanīsä 'l-kaldāniyyä) is an Eastern particular church of the Catholic Church, maintaining full communion with the Bishop of Rome and the rest of the Catholic Church. The Chaldean Catholic Church presently comprises an estimated 600,000 - 700,000 Chaldean Christians.[1]

40 Killgore Trout  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:03:41am

re: #30 lifeofthemind

Interesting. Thanks for posting that.

41 shanec99  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:04:02am

re: #35 lifeofthemind

For what my opinion is worth (crickets...crickets) I thought that giving Iraq a constitution that enshrined sharia was a big step back. It gained us no friends and weakened the position of religious minorities.


The Iraqis wrote their constitution... we could not force them to mirror ours, they are a sovereign nation, they will make mistakes, hopefully they will learn from them and become responsible players in the ME, and so much American blood will not have been spilled in vain.

42 lifeofthemind  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:04:21am

Wish we could finish up some loose ends before BO moves in, Assad in particular.

43 notutopia  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:05:11am

Merry Christmas to President George Bush, Each and Every Soldier, Contractors, Volunteers, Engineers and Health Care personnel that have made the celebration of Christmas in Iraq Possible.
May they forever enjoy and share our Joy in Christmas!

44 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:06:34am

re: #35 lifeofthemind

For what my opinion is worth (crickets...crickets) I thought that giving Iraq a constitution that enshrined sharia was a big step back. It gained us no friends and weakened the position of religious minorities.

The Iraqis didn't have the luxury of an Islamic Reformation and Renaissance when they wrote their constitution; but they wrote the thing, not us.

45 lifeofthemind  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:07:29am

re: #41 shanec99

The Iraqis wrote their constitution... we could not force them to mirror ours, they are a sovereign nation, they will make mistakes, hopefully they will learn from them and become responsible players in the ME, and so much American blood will not have been spilled in vain.

I'll disagree with you here, agreeably I hope. We are as responsible for the Iraqi constitution as we were for the Japanese. We fought the war for a purpose. They were not occupied by a foreign invader, their polity was broken from the inside and needed correction.

46 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:10:25am

re: #36 swamprat

semi zydeco

Great!

47 shanec99  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:12:41am

re: #45 lifeofthemind

I'll disagree with you here, agreeably I hope. We are as responsible for the Iraqi constitution as we were for the Japanese. We fought the war for a purpose. They were not occupied by a foreign invader, their polity was broken from the inside and needed correction.


The structure was different in WWII, we had an army of occupation, and Gen MacArthur had sweeping powers... we did not choose to set up an army of occupation in Iraq... we had a transitional government, and the goal was to return sovereignty to the Iraqi people as soon as possible. They wrote their own constitution... and they will do as they like... Iraq belongs to the Iraqis. My hope is that they will become responsible world players.

48 swamprat  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:16:15am
49 fclass308  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:24:11am

re: #48 swamprat

excellent choice.

You get an upding for that one. :)

50 Dublin(CA)Dude  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:25:37am

I posted this on the last tread, only to realize it was a dead thread, so I repost it now, please indulge me


On this very rainy Christmas day, I'd like to thank all the friends I have here at LGF for your support and caring. You have helped me through a difficult year and given me hope for the one to soon come. God works in His own mysterious way, but caring friends have made a huge difference. To all, thank you, and Merry Christmas. God bless you all.

51 reine.de.tout  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 11:51:09am

re: #48 swamprat


and now for something entirely different and beautiful

their voices are so beautiful.

52 Cutty Sark  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 12:21:09pm

Talk is cheap and bullshit goes to the cleaners ...token sympathy will soon wear off , and christians in Iraq will catch hell again .

53 NelsFree  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 12:30:20pm

re: #44 FurryOldGuyJeans

The Iraqis didn't have the luxury of an Islamic Reformation and Renaissance when they wrote their constitution; but they wrote the thing, not us.

An "Islamic Reformation" would not result in more respect for other religions. Every country where Islam has gained a majority, all other religions populations drop. EVERY COUNTRY.

54 psyop  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 1:25:17pm

This is a wonderful thing. Congratulations to the people of Iraq for their new found freedom to celebrate (or not, as they choose) the official holiday of Christmas.

I look forward to seeing what addition they will make to the tradition of Christmas. So much of Christmas is a combination of old and new, and each country adds something unique. Hopefully, this will continue to inspire freedom.

I am proud for the very tiny part I was able to play in the freedom and democracy that Iraqis now enjoy.

55 Pelayo  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 1:28:59pm

Of course neither the Renaissance nor the Reformation were centrally about religious liberty - an idea that seemed to gain traction only in the 17th century.

56 snopercod  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 1:40:39pm

Typical AP article - accentuate the negative as much as possible

57 mattm  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 2:56:46pm

But Saddam would have let them celebrate Christmas.

/moonbat

58 Cutty Sark  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 3:30:27pm

#57 you have stated a great irony ....and a true one at that ...and even if you meant it as a sarcasm ...it WAS nonetheless TRUE .

59 Karridine  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 4:36:58pm

When May 23, (1844, His Return) or July 9 (His martyrdom, 1850) are celebrated, THEN send me a memo, for it will be a great and unifying day, indeed!

60 Cutty Sark  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 4:47:56pm

As long as thee is Sunni and shia , there will be no unified Iraq , the bloodletting and carnage will continue , until another dictator puts his heel on both their necks .
There are no "great days " ahead for Iraq .

61 swamprat  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 4:59:16pm

re: #60 Cutty Sark

Garbage, troll. And waiting an hour between posts will not keep you from geting outed. At some point you will have to defend your unfounded allegations.

62 Cutty Sark  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 5:14:05pm

#61 swamprat -sychophant ......what 'allegation " ?

do you even know what you're talking about ? I suggest a survey of Iraqi history ,maybe then you won't blurt nonsense based in your own ignorance .

p.s. I 'm not sitting on the computer , waiting to input something ....anything ....in order to make noise .

63 daledog  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 5:32:26pm

This is welcome news. A next great step would be for Iraq to establish relations with Israel. This would be an earthquake in the region. Let's hope it happens.

64 mindy1  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 5:55:26pm

#60 I hope you are wrong, but sunni and shia have fought for so long i wonder.. but this is good news for the iraqi's, and I wish them well

65 Cutty Sark  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 7:02:48pm

Sad to say , Sunni and Shia consider each other to be apostate . There will be no reconcilliations between the two sects .
What's more , there will never be any recognition of Israel coming from Iraq .
There are great tensions and disagreement amongst the arab/muslim nations , but the one thing they can all agree upon , is ,the destruction of Israel .
I hate to rain on anyone's parade , but the reality is rather harsh ...and bleak .
Nothing short of an Epiphany on the part of Islam , will change things .

66 Zimriel  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 7:29:01pm

re: #23 Killgore Trout

It would at least be interesting to know what those traditions were. I'd guess it was a little more like Coptic Christianity.

Coptic doctrine is Monophysite and there are some Monophysites left in Syria (the "Syrian Church", aka Jacobites) and, I hear, Iraq. However Coptic culture is so steeped in Egyptian antiquity that I suspect that its services are not like Monophysite services outside Egypt. And the "Assyrian Church" is Nestorian, pretty much the opposite of Monophysitism.

Have you read "The Lost History of Christianity" by Philip Jenkins? Jenkins thinks that most practices we consider Islamic (e.g. domed mosques with towers, prostrations, sung sura-verses) are ports from Syrian/Iraqi Christianity.

67 psyop  Thu, Dec 25, 2008 9:00:51pm

re: #65 Cutty Sark

Sad to say , Sunni and Shia consider each other to be apostate . There will be no reconcilliations between the two sects .
What's more , there will never be any recognition of Israel coming from Iraq .
There are great tensions and disagreement amongst the arab/muslim nations , but the one thing they can all agree upon , is ,the destruction of Israel .
I hate to rain on anyone's parade , but the reality is rather harsh ...and bleak .
Nothing short of an Epiphany on the part of Islam , will change things .

Freedom is the best cure. If one side doesn't fear repression though theocratic governmental domination by the other, and is free to worship as they choose, things can go very well.

This is why Sunni and Shi'ite Muslims in the U.S. and (to a lesser extent) the U.K. manage to get on without killing each other. With a stable government that by law (and thusly, through threat of force and imprisonment) does not hold one ideology above another, you no longer feel you have to gain the upper hand through violence. This is one reason why the Iraqi Government granting Christians the holiday of Christmas is so promising, and a good sign all around. It means anything is possible, even for a minority religion.

'Course, what do I know? I only watched as many Sunni, Shia, Orthodox Christian, Catholic, agnostic and those of indeterminate religion worked together with the U.S. Armed Forces to create a better future for their county, and were proud to work together.

68 Cutty Sark  Fri, Dec 26, 2008 4:28:22am

I do not doubt nor question the sincerity nor the nobility of US Forces in Iraq , nor their mission.
I do however doubt this "token announcement " regarding christians in Iraq and their treatment by the indigenous majority of Sunni and Shia muslims .
Christians are presently bearing the brunt of persecution in Iraq to the point of embarrassment and shame of the Iraqi Government . This is not based in any "politik" since it originates in muslim religious doctrine .
The presence of US Forces in an of itself is the determining factor of how far this persecution will go . As for Egypt , it is even worse , as the copts see their churches burnt to the ground , worshippers attacked in and out of their churches .
As for Lebanon , it has not been forgotten , that 10,000 Lebanese Christians were slaughtered in 1982 ,at the hands of idigenous muslim groups , and this is systemic behavior in muslim societies , in this respect Iraq is no different .
Therefore I am highly suspicious of token announcements , such as the one regarding recognizing any christian /[infidel ] holyday .

69 Rightwingconspirator  Fri, Dec 26, 2008 11:14:26am

Might be the first Christmas there since Mohamed... No lack of irony there.


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