I barely survived that one.

Science!

I have always been a freak on this stuff since I was a kid ...I love watching documentaries on the plagues ...science is so great ...

re: #3 JacksonTn

not if you are a ferret.

man I hope that one doesnt get lose again...

I'm sure glad that mystery is solved. I don't wanna get that again. /

Caroline Kennedy Should Be Red Carded From the Game

I hope the DIYers aren't trying this at home.

But a complex of three genes helped to make the virus live and reproduce deep in the lungs.

An irreducible complex?

/Behe mode off

This is just a cock and bull story. We all know Bush caused this.

Some of the recent advances have been the result of finding remains of victims in places like Alaska, where they were remarkably well preserved combined with new DNA and RNA techniques.

One of the most puzzling things about the 1918 flu is that so many seemingly healthy young people died - and often did so within days of contracting the disease.

re: #5 albusteve

That would stink, but, remember, they had no penicillin then. No antibiotics yet, not for 10+ years.

They needn't look for a cure for the flu - Barack Obama can cure the sick.

/

They dug the bug out of frozen corpses of WWI dead buried in Alaska.

re: #10 ArmyWife

i sure hope you didn't unleash a pun thread from your first sentence--just sayin'

re: #12 CapeCoddah

That would stink, but, remember, they had no penicillin then. No antibiotics yet, not for 10+ years.

Bayers repeating.

re: #13 gclaghorn

They needn't look for a cure for the flu - Barack Obama can cure the sick.

/

And it will be free, too.

I got the flu in back in '04, brutal, two weeks of absolute misery.

re: #15 mikeymom

I know not my powers!

This guy lived through it, and a whole lot more. The oldest man in America died today.

One of the many things people should know about influenza: The wonder drug (and it is a wonder drug) Tamiflu can't be taken by small children.

Make sure you protect your kids from the flu!

Someone from 1918 had the foresight to save a sample of sputum from a victim. Now that's brilliant. A grisly murder in the Chicago area from over 15 years ago - the Brown's Chicken murders - were solve a few years ago because a cop had the sense to save the half-eaten chicken dinners of the killers.

re: #12 CapeCoddah

That would stink, but, remember, they had no penicillin then. No antibiotics yet, not for 10+ years.

Yeah.. I think I'm gonna hang out around this time.. maybe go forward in time somewhat.. see how it goes.

re: #18 Tarkus289

I got the flu in back in '04, brutal, two weeks of absolute misery.

Two WEEKS! Oy gevalt, what strain did you have?

re: #20 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This guy lived through it, and a whole lot more. The oldest man in America died today.

Older, but not much wiser. He voted for Obama.

re: #12 CapeCoddah

That would stink, but, remember, they had no penicillin then. No antibiotics yet, not for 10+ years.

pandemics really sorta frighten me I'll admit...so easy to get one started maliciously

#22 - my mistake: sputum not intentionally saved.

He flu away.

re: #20 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This guy lived through it, and a whole lot more. The oldest man in America died today.

You certain it wasn't the flu that killed him?

re: #12 CapeCoddah

Those would not have helped anyway. This was a virus.

re: #10 ArmyWife

This is just a cock and bull story. We all know Bush caused this.

Yes, He's an evil genius... that moron!

FREE THE FERRETS!

Most flu experts agree that a pandemic of influenza will almost certainly strike again. No one knows when or what strain it will be but one big suspect now is the H5N1 avian influenza virus.

H5N1 is circulating among poultry in Asia, Europe and parts of Africa. It rarely affects humans but has killed 247 of the 391 people infected since 2003.
A few mutations would make it into a pandemic strain that could kill millions globally within a few months.

Four licensed drugs can fight flu but the viruses regularly mutate into resistant forms -- just as bacteria evolve into forms that evade antibiotics.

There's your happy thought for the day.

So glad the discovery institute is here to help, aren't you?

re: #26 albusteve

"the stand", andromeda --that kind od stuff? yeah, me too-

The flu. 50 million deaths. Hope we don't take our eye off the ball battling the H5N1 virus which has caused fewer than 200 deaths in 5 years.

Does PA, PB1, and PB2 work on mice?

re: #30 notutopia
The antibiotics would not have put down the pneumonia? It worked for me.

re: #24 David Simon

Don't know what strain, I just know I never want to go through that ever again... Thought for sure I was going to die, and I was starting to see that as relief, but, all better now, thanks.

re: #25 gclaghorn

In his shoes, can not imagine doing any different.

An Oncologist told me once that as science unravels more strains they will find that many cancers are caused by a virus ...every step science takes is so exciting ...

re: #39 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

In his shoes, can not imagine doing any different.

Yes, you're right.

re: #30 notutopia

Those would not have helped anyway. This was a virus.

Secondary infections are not unheard of.

re: #37 CapeCoddah

Only if it was bacterial pneumonia.
Not viral caused pneumonia.

re: #34 mikeymom

"the stand", andromeda --that kind od stuff? yeah, me too-

lalalalalalalalaaa

re: #37 CapeCoddah

The antibiotics would not have put down the pneumonia? It worked for me.

You can have bacterial pneumonia, which does respond to antibiotics. Viral pneumonia however, does not.

re: #4 ArmyWife

not if you are a ferret.

Then again, if epidemiologists can counter these genes' effectiveness, and thus thwart a human epidemic, they may indirectly save the lives of tens of thousands of ferrets. Along with a few dozen million humans.

re: #12 CapeCoddah

That would stink, but, remember, they had no penicillin then. No antibiotics yet, not for 10+ years.

Wouldn't have mattered much. Influenza is a virus. Antibiotics work on bacterial infections. They might lessen secondary infections, but they don't touch "the flu".

re: #43 notutopia

Ah, did not realize the difference.

re: #44 MandyManners

wash yer hands mandy--wash often

re: #33 Sharmuta

There's your happy thought for the day.

So glad the discovery institute is here to help, aren't you?

More proof, as if any more were needed, that the DI has its headquarters deep inside its own hindquarters.

re: #36 Noam Sayin'

(Noam, the answer to your mouse problem is in the previous thread.)

re: #40 JacksonTn

An Oncologist told me once that as science unravels more strains they will find that many cancers are caused by a virus ...every step science takes is so exciting ...

understanding cancer and how it matasticizes will unlock the mysteries to extreme long life...perhaps immortality...so I've heard

Israeli product Sambucol strengthens the immune system against the flu.

[Link: www.sambucolusa.com...]

re: #35 lesbianrainforest

The flu. 50 million deaths. Hope we don't take our eye off the ball battling the H5N1 virus which has caused fewer than 200 deaths in 5 years.

LMAO! Reminds me of a typically contentious family dinner where my aunt wagged her finger in my face while screaming "George Bush has failed to stock the avian flu vaccine!" I calmly pointed out that a vaccine hasn't been invented. (She changed the subject to Manolo Blahniks or something like that.)

re: #46 Clemente

I was kidding about the ferret thing.

As long as we're on this ...

[Link: www.cdc.gov...]

if you're 60 or over just do it.

There is a waiting list.

Call your doc.

re: #37 CapeCoddah

The antibiotics would not have put down the pneumonia? It worked for me.

Depends on what was the cause: a virus or a bacterium.

re: #45 BaseballMom57

Love your avatar, where could I find a large version?

re: #42 MandyManners

the 1918 flu CAUSED severe pneumonia.
The Primary infection.
The virus directly affected the lungs.
This was not a secondary infection.

off topic

re: #57 MandyManners

I'm not a scientist but, I've dealt with this with my mother for many, many years. If she gets hit with either this winter/spring, she'll likely die.

1918 flu map

Cops in Flu masks

Batter Up!

The CDC Weekly Flu Report

Ah, shit. Ignore that last sentence, please.

To avoid any other confusion, I was kidding about Bush, too. And I was kidding about my husband's high school mascot, they were not "The Pantywaists"

re: #49 mikeymom

wash yer hands mandy--wash often

Oh, I do.

re: #61 MandyManners

I'm not a scientist but, I've dealt with this with my mother for many, many years. If she gets hit with either this winter/spring, she'll likely die.

Prayers for your mother.

re: #52 albusteve

understanding cancer and how it matasticizes will unlock the mysteries to extreme long life...perhaps immortality...so I've heard

Will it reverse the effects of gravity?

worst sickness i ever saw--when my then 85 yr old m-il came to live w/us--and f-i-l was in a nursing home--she had 8 weeks of severe diarrhea--had a battery of test and meds--couldnt stop it--we were petrified of catching it--finally figured she got MRSA from visiting pops in nursing home--ended up in insolation at hospital--lost 10 lbs on a 100 # frame--we never did get sick--but we were paranoid about washing and disenfecting-will never forget having to get a stool sample to send to a lab--ewww!

Adam and Eve rode tame flu virii around the Garden of Eden. Man's sin caused the flu virus to turn bad.

Always take your shots with lime and salt...helps the medicine go down.

re: #37 CapeCoddah

The antibiotics would not have put down the pneumonia? It worked for me.

Did you have the rockin' pneumonia or the boogey woogie flu?

re: #50 Dark_Falcon

More proof, as if any more were needed, that the DI has its headquarters deep inside its own hindquarters.

When discussions come up about our science education in this country- this is exactly the sort of thing that should come to mind, our future inability to deal with potentially fatal outbreaks.

re: #61 MandyManners

I'm not a scientist but, I've dealt with this with my mother for many, many years. If she gets hit with either this winter/spring, she'll likely die.

Do you mean the Flu? She can (usually) avoid it by being immunized. And, if you immunize the Kid, he won't bring it home from school either. It's not too late for this year.

Was talking about a "super-flu" with some friends the other night. Have a friend who is getting her PHD in, get this, "Infectious Diseases in Literature and Film".

She, is cool to talk to.

re: #67 MandyManners

Will it reverse the effects of gravity?

only the Oboy can do that...it's all over the street

Evolutionary theory (the Darwinian kind) is a huge factor in discoveries like this. It's the foundation for these kinds of conceptual breakthroughs.

I'm just sayin'.

re: #18 Tarkus289

I got the flu in back in '04, brutal, two weeks of absolute misery.

I had it in '04 or '05. It had me bedridden for about 6 days with 102°+ fever, aches, and an intractable cough. The cough part lasted for about a month. I had never taken a flu shot before that, but I've had one every year since.

re: #61 MandyManners

Best to your mom, Mandy,I hope for the best for you and your family.

re: #59 notutopia

the 1918 flu CAUSED severe pneumonia.
The Primary infection.
The virus directly affected the lungs.
This was not a secondary infection.

I know the difference between the two. I was merely rapidly extrapolating based on my experience with my mom. She gets a rhinovirus, she goes on Lavaquin IMMEDIATELY to prevent the secondary attack.

re: #63 MandyManners

Ah, shit. Ignore that last sentence, please.

Why? You love your mother, as you should. I find it rather touching.

re: #76 Charles

Evolutionary theory (the Darwinian kind) is a huge factor in discoveries like this. It's the foundation for these kinds of conceptual breakthroughs.

I'm just sayin'.

It's hard to make these kind of breakthroughs when your caught up in the notion that cavemen rode around on dinosaurs.

re: #76 Charles

Evolutionary theory (the Darwinian kind) is a huge factor in discoveries like this. It's the foundation for these kinds of conceptual breakthroughs.

I'm just sayin'.

you've got a DI thread up your sleeve?

re: #74 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Was talking about a "super-flu" with some friends the other night. Have a friend who is getting her PHD in, get this, "Infectious Diseases in Literature and Film".

She, is cool to talk to.

One of the most beloved victims of TB: Beth in Little Women. I can still get teary every time I read the chapter "The Valley of the shadow."

re: #76 Charles

Did you think it was too quiet in here?

re: #73 FightingBack

Do you mean the Flu? She can (usually) avoid it by being immunized. And, if you immunize the Kid, he won't bring it home from school either. It's not too late for this year.

IF the vaccine contains the right strain.

re: #76 Charles

Evolutionary theory (the Darwinian kind) is a huge factor in discoveries like this. It's the foundation for these kinds of conceptual breakthroughs.

I'm just sayin'.

See my post above. Must I post an actual photo of Eve riding a tame, friendly flu virus to prove my point? Because I'll do it. Watch and see if I don't!

re: #33 Sharmuta

There's your happy thought for the day.

So glad the discovery institute is here to help, aren't you?

More proof that the DI and their like are not stopping nor going to stop science, as some might have us believe.

re: #83 goddessoftheclassroom

Wasn't that Rheumatic Fever (Strep complications?)

re: #13 gclaghorn

They needn't look for a cure for the flu - Barack Obama can cure the sick.

/

No, he just makes healty smart people wish they could die.

re: #83 goddessoftheclassroom

oh YES! note to self--reread for the hundreth time!

re: #61 MandyManners

I'm not a scientist but, I've dealt with this with my mother for many, many years. If she gets hit with either this winter/spring, she'll likely die.

I asked my Cardiologist "What is the protocol for someone like me (42 year old male w/ heart defect) if the bird flu becomes a pandemic?"

His answer: "Hit the store as soon as possible, stock up on food and liquid, and seal yourself inside of your house. If we have to ration healthcare we'll save the young and heathy first. You are at the bottom of the list."

re: #68 mikeymom

There is a place south of Muskegon, MI called the "Holland Stool Company". Go in there and ask them if they have any samples. No matter how funny you think it is?...they don't laugh. Not at all.

This subject is fascinating - and was even before the DNA of the 1918 flu virus was reconstructed in 2006. Unsolved medical mysteries have always intrigued me, and this is a great what-done-it.

My father, who was born in 1907, had Parkinson's Disease. He remembered the 1918 pandemic, and he told me about it. I also read about it - this sort of thing fascinates me.

The scientists have found no relation to the 1918 flu virus and Parkinson's, since the virus has not been shown to affect the brain in any way. However, there was an outbreak of the encephalitis lethargica virus at that time, which lasted until 1931, and it appears to have a relation to the onset of parkinsonism. Another interesting development is gene therapy for Parkinson's. My daddy has passed away, but lots of people have this afflication, and I am always interested to hear of new things.

re: #92 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There is a place south of Muskegon, MI called the "Holland Stool Company". Go in there and ask them if they have any samples. No matter how funny you think it is?...they don't laugh. Not at all.

Or ask them how they make their stools.

*snicker*

re: #88 FightingBack

Wasn't that Rheumatic Fever (Strep complications?)

I'm pretty sure it was TB. It doesn't state it directly, but her symptoms suggest TB to be. She first became sick while helping out a poor family, but she dies several years later.

re: #92 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

just--wow--you are a sick FBV j/k

re: #92 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There is a place south of Muskegon, MI called the "Holland Stool Company". Go in there and ask them if they have any samples. No matter how funny you think it is?...they don't laugh. Not at all.

Poor bastards, probably had their funny bone abused too often with that one.

re: #96 mikeymom

just--wow--you are a sick FBV j/k

No. Really! They don't laugh.

re: #98 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

yeah --but--you do!

re: #73 FightingBack

Do you mean the Flu? She can (usually) avoid it by being immunized. And, if you immunize the Kid, he won't bring it home from school either. It's not too late for this year.

Oh, she's first in line to get that. I'm talking about the simple rhinovirus.

re: #98 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

and just how many times have you attempted to make them laugh with this?

re: #94 gclaghorn

Or ask them how they make their stools.

*snicker*

or if they are firm or soft.

/okay I will stop now.

re: #102 BlueCanuck

tyvm

re: #102 BlueCanuck

or if they are firm or soft.

/okay I will stop now.

Or what color they are.

/Enough, I say!

re: #97 BlueCanuck

Poor bastards, probably had their funny bone abused too often with that one.

Bought two stools from them, for the guitarists at my church. They are great, very high quality and priced well.

That little commercial may repair my Karma from them.

re: #87 ciaospirit

More proof that the DI and their like are not stopping nor going to stop science, as some might have us believe.

I think it's more in danger of shifting it's shores elsewhere. America will not be a leader in science much longer.

re: #75 albusteve

only the Oboy can do that...it's all over the street

He can't reverse Jack-shit.

re: #98 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

No. Really! They don't laugh.

I wouldnt either...c'mon you can do better than that...

re: #78 CapeCoddah

Thanks!

re: #101 ArmyWife

Been there three times. Wanna guess?

re: #107 MandyManners

but perhaps he could order a stool sample from FBV's haunt.

re: #103 mikeymom

because if you all dont stop. i will go into great detail--and it aint pretty!

re: #108 albusteve

I wouldnt either...c'mon you can do better than that...

Perhaps he could sit on one, complain that it's too hard, and ask for a stool softener...

re: #80 David Simon

Why? You love your mother, as you should. I find it rather touching.

I didn't mean to introduce such personal stuff as that. Thank you.

re: #68 mikeymom

Nursing homes, schools, and hospitals are three places you don't want to be if you or someone you know has a compromised immune system. You can either become a carrier, or get sick yourself. Best defense is to thoroughly wash your hands whenever contacting common items (door handles, bathrooms, elevator/escalators, etc.)

Many hospitals and nursing homes have come to realize the importance of putting purell or other anti-bacterial/anti-microbals in prominent locations to reduce infections - especially since it costs the nation billions annually in medical costs that are potentially avoidable (think longer hospital stays, lost wages, etc.)

re: #113 goddessoftheclassroom

If I could upding 100000000 times I would!

re: #113 goddessoftheclassroom

ok thats a whack

re: #95 goddessoftheclassroom

Strep (back then) would work the same way. Contagion and acute illness, then recovery with Rheumatic heart complications, and damaged heart valves cause death some time later. Tb would have a cough (usually.) I don't recall this in the book?

re: #112 mikeymom

because if you all dont stop. i will go into great detail--and it aint pretty!

Personally, I don't have the time for that sh- {squelch}

re: #91 SteveC

I asked my Cardiologist "What is the protocol for someone like me (42 year old male w/ heart defect) if the bird flu becomes a pandemic?"

His answer: "Hit the store as soon as possible, stock up on food and liquid, and seal yourself inside of your house. If we have to ration healthcare we'll save the young and heathy first. You are at the bottom of the list."

What did you say?

re: #110 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

too hard, too soft and just right?

re: #112 mikeymom

Yes I know, have had to do something similar once myself. But if you can't laugh at it, eventually. . . .

re: #113 goddessoftheclassroom

I. Want. To. Go. Back. There. So. Bad. Right. Now.

Next time someone see's Irish Rose on, ask here if she'll go for me.

re: #20 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

This guy lived through it, and a whole lot more. The oldest man in America died today.

George Frances was born on the same day (June 6, 1896) as Britain's oldest man and oldest veteran, Henry Allingham and was tied with Mr. Allingham as world's second oldest man.
The subject of this string reminds me that Dr. Leila Denmark, the pediatrician who developed the whooping cough vaccine in the 1920s, is still alive at age 110. She practiced medicine until she was 103 and is said to alert and healthy to this day.

My grandmother, who is 104, survived the epidemic of 1918 but 7 of the 23 kids in her high school class died from it.

re: #107 MandyManners

He can't reverse Jack-shit.

he reversed his point of view about Iran...from a small harmless country to a large harmful country...he did

re: #111 ArmyWife

but perhaps he could order a stool sample from FBV's haunt.

LOL! You're fast!

re: #120 MandyManners

What did you say?

I commented on the quality and composition of the local selection of stools.

Another one of those pesky missing links discovered...
Spider Ancestor Made Silk—Possibly Using it for Sex—But Couldn’t Spin a Web

Paleontologists have taken another hard look at the fossilized remains of an arachnid that lived 386 million years ago, and have stripped away its title as the oldest known spider. The creature, Attercopus fimbriunguis, was originally believed to have the capacity to spin webs out of silk, but a reconsideration of the fragmented fossil has led researchers to conclude that Attercopus could make silk, but probably excreted it in sheets. These proto-spiders may have used sheets of silk to line burrows, wrap eggs or even to have sex

Hooray for bondage!
/Science!

re: #113 goddessoftheclassroom

Perhaps he could sit on one, complain that it's too hard, and ask for a stool softener...

Decor by Ducolax?

re: #113 goddessoftheclassroom

Perhaps he could sit on one, complain that it's too hard, and ask for a stool softener...

okay...gettin warmer here

re: #128 Killgore Trout

Another one of those pesky missing links discovered...
Spider Ancestor Made Silk—Possibly Using it for Sex—But Couldn’t Spin a Web

Hooray for bondage!
/Science!

Kinky!

re: #129 MandyManners

Decor by Ducolax?

I won't even bother asking. :)

re: #3 JacksonTn

I have always been a freak on this stuff since I was a kid ...I love watching documentaries on the plagues ...science is so great ...

We have this in common! :D Whenever I purge my books and give some away, my medical mysteries books are keepers.

I heartily recommend anything by Berton Roueche.

re: #124 Shiplord Kirel

Hey, my grandmother will be 102 in Feb...still lives by herself.

re: #125 albusteve

he reversed his point of view about Iran...from a small harmless country to a large harmful country...he did

Well, his POV is plastic.

re: #130 albusteve

Must . . . show. . . .some . . .restraint. . . ..

/that clue by four would really hurt.

re: #127 SteveC

I commented on the quality and composition of the local selection of stools.

*rimshot*

re: #129 MandyManners

Gives a whole new meaning to, "May I push up your stool?"

re: #118 FightingBack

Strep (back then) would work the same way. Contagion and acute illness, then recovery with Rheumatic heart complications, and damaged heart valves cause death some time later. Tb would have a cough (usually.) I don't recall this in the book?

I think you're right. I had to look it up, and I found this on Wiki:

Beth is the sister most involved with charitable works. While her mother is nursing their father in Washington, she contracts scarlet fever from the youngest child of the Hummels, a poor German family. She survives the illness but is weakened greatly, and eventually dies from the afteraffects of the illness.

Scarlet fever is another strep infection, of course, which can lead to rheumatic fever. That makes sense.

re: #115 lawhawk

yes--know we know. she was/is frail herself, and suffered alot--the diarrhea so weakened her that she fell, bumped her head, and ended up 3 months later having a brain surgery to remove a subdural hematoma. all because of bacteria causing diarrhea. t'was a long journey--shes now in asst livinng and not in my house--love her--but--shes 90 now--alz and paranoia setting in

re: #92 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

There is a place south of Muskegon, MI called the "Holland Stool Company". Go in there and ask them if they have any samples. No matter how funny you think it is?...they don't laugh. Not at all.

I once worked on a power plant financing, in which the plant generators were being provided by the German engineering firm Siemens. At one point, one of the lawyers at the table, inquiring about models for engineering contracts, asked (competely seriously) if anyone had any Siemens samples.

re: #128 Killgore Trout

Hooray for bondage!
/Science!

As a noted scientist, I find it quite surprising that the girl blinded me with science!

re: #100 MandyManners

Try and ask her to be careful about touching her face (never.) If she doesn't carry the germ up to her face, it will reduce the chances of infection. It's hard to do, but worth it.
Best of Luck to her.

re: #136 BlueCanuck

Must . . . show. . . .some . . .restraint. . . ..

/that clue by four would really hurt.

will the stool float is the larger question...

re: #138 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Gives a whole new meaning to, "May I push up your stool?"

There's a joke about a polite gay bar in there somewhere.

This is an excellent resource sight. You may want to bookmark it for future use/or preparations.

Flu terms defined
Seasonal flu, avian flu, and pandemic flu are not the same.
[Link: www.pandemicflu.gov...]

re: #56 Bobibutu

Exactly what I would say! Yet people are still afraid of vaccines. I think that the best teacher, sadly, is actually having a severe case of influenza. I would bet that the next year, these people will be the first ones on line to get the shot.

Even though it may not be as effective in our age group, NY Grampa and I still get it as soon as it is available, and our kids do, and make sure that our grandkids also get their shots. The youngest is 2, and now it is recommended for babies 6 months old and up.

The state of NJ has made it mandatory for all public school children, and a lot of parents have their knickers in a knot.

This year's flu vaccine is supposed to be an excellent match to the flu they have seen this year!

re: #124 Shiplord Kirel

George Frances was born on the same day (June 6, 1896) as Britain's oldest man and oldest veteran, Henry Allingham and was tied with Mr. Allingham as world's second oldest man.
The subject of this string reminds me that Dr. Leila Denmark, the pediatrician who developed the whooping cough vaccine in the 1920s, is still alive at age 110. She practiced medicine until she was 103 and is said to alert and healthy to this day.

My grandmother, who is 104, survived the epidemic of 1918 but 7 of the 23 kids in her high school class died from it.

Wow. How horrible. We really are so blessed to live in our era.

re: #145 MandyManners

There's a joke about a polite gay bar in there somewhere.

LOLOLOL! :-)

re: #133 Cattt

We have this in common! :D Whenever I purge my books and give some away, my medical mysteries books are keepers.

I heartily recommend anything by Berton Roueche.

"11 Blue Men." It's what inspired me to become a doctor.

re: #135 MandyManners

Well, his POV is plastic.

just like his personality...he's been molded

re: #145 MandyManners

My finger paused for about 10 seconds before I hit post on that one.

re: #124 Shiplord Kirel

Btw, my grandmother still says that the 1918 flu epidemic was the single most frightening event of her very long lifetime. It was like the end of the world in literal fact: At one point, she and her parents wondered if literally everyone was going to die.
A documentary I saw recently said that the number of deaths registered in the US in October 1918 (ca. 360,000) has not been exceeded to this day, even though the population has almost tripled.

re: #152 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

My finger paused for about 10 seconds before I hit post on that one.

That was the joke I was avoiding.

/of course with this crowd I knew some one would go their eventually.

re: #143 FightingBack

Try and ask her to be careful about touching her face (never.) If she doesn't carry the germ up to her face, it will reduce the chances of infection. It's hard to do, but worth it.
Best of Luck to her.

She knows but, she smokes. (Oh, yeah. That, too.)

I read/heard a long time ago that the members of Britain's royal family are trained from a very early age to never touch their faces.

re: #141 Occasional Reader

I once worked on a power plant financing, in which the plant generators were being provided by the German engineering firm Siemens. At one point, one of the lawyers at the table, inquiring about models for engineering contracts, asked (competely seriously) if anyone had any Siemens samples.

My boys' grandparents got them each a Beckham soccer jersey from Spain--VERY expensive to get here in the States. The only problem is the sponsor. the same company to which you refer.

Try wearing that to junior high...

re: #147 NY Nana

This year's flu vaccine is supposed to be an excellent match to the flu they have seen this year!

I got mine at the same Cardiologist's office back in October. The nurse leaned in the room and said "Have you had your Flu Shot yet? We can do it right here." Three minutes later it was done!

Efficiency!

re: #142 SteveC

As a noted scientist, I find it quite surprising that the girl blinded me with science!

"She binded me with science!"

Well...said I was going to bed two hours ago. Now I mean it.

G'night John-Boy!

It may be a touchy subject but ...this is one reason I do not understand when people do not want to get their daughters vaccinated for the virus that causes cervical cancer ...if enough people get the vaccine we will greatly reduce the spread of the disease ...

re: #152 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

i'm glad it hit the keyboard instead

If I may turn to the war here, I wish to note that Hamas has received scant comfort from President elect Obama.

On Meet The Press on Sunday, David Axelrod reduced the current situation to a rather simple equation:

As Hamas began its shelling, Israel responded

That certainly gives Hamas nowhere to go.

Here the BBC this evening is recalling Obama's statement in a visit in August to Sderot:

"If somebody was sending rockets into my house where my two daughters sleep at night, I'm going to do everything in my power to stop that," said Mr Obama during the visit . "And I would expect Israelis to do the same thing."

I and others noticed yesterday that CNN and the other usual suspects burst out of the gate with Israel hating coverage as their knee jerk reaction over the weekend. Well, I was interested to see this morning that CNN web lead with some bullsh*t human interest story, and then carried some nonsense about sludge pollution during the day. Right now they're leading with the GM bailout. I am dead certain they well into full reverse when they saw President Elect Obama siding with Israel. Dead certain.

The incoming Obama administration has handled this current situation correctly.

re: #58 Tarkus289

Love your avatar, where could I find a large version?

Thanks! I believe I found it on Photobucket when I was looking for something to put on my MySpace for Memorial Day. I've found a couple of good ones there.

re: #150 FightingBack

"11 Blue Men." It's what inspired me to become a doctor.

Awesome!

re: #156 MandyManners

We have our own royalty at LGF.

re: #162 mikeymom

AAARRRGGGHHH!

re: #150 FightingBack

"11 Blue Men." It's what inspired me to become a doctor.

These guys?

Great we can save ferrets.
1) Rudy Giuliani will be furious.
2) I don't like Barney Franks' friends.

Night FBV, sleep well.

re: #151 albusteve

just like his personality...he's been molded

Not really. His narcissistic personality was formed at a very early age.

I'm speaking of the adaptability of his POV in the face of current events.

re: #161 JacksonTn

It may be a touchy subject but ...this is one reason I do not understand when people do not want to get their daughters vaccinated for the virus that causes cervical cancer ...if enough people get the vaccine we will greatly reduce the spread of the disease ...

It also causes Venereal Warts. That usually scares 'em enough to beg me for the vaccine, LOL.

I've probably already had this year's flu. Got it from my patient's wife. Man, worst week in a long time. Coughing and hurting all over, still have a little cough. But i started on Zinc lozenges and L-lysine and cold preparations as soon as I realized what was happening. Mom took the zinc and L-lysine just in case, so hers wan't as bad.

re: #164 BaseballMom57

Thanks, I'll check it out later.

re: #94 gclaghorn

Or ask them how they make their stools.

*snicker*

Probably oughtta be careful how you ask if they float, too...

re: #163 Luigi

[SNIP]
The incoming Obama administration has handled this current situation correctly.

I reluctantly agree.

re: #106 Sharmuta

Right. Notice that these researchers were Japanese. Much of the science done in the United States is not done by Americans.

re: #168 SteveC

Sorry, no.
More like This

re: #177 Jim D

Right. Notice that these researchers were Japanese. Much of the science done in the United States is not done by Americans.

Exactly.

Anyone else think that the year of the pandemic being 1918 had something to do with all the deaths? It's not as if broad-spectrum antibiotics were just a trip to the corner ER away...
Just saying.

re: #161 JacksonTn

I was furious! My daughter got it, my wife was with her. No one asked me. Just don't trust the fucking thing. Sorry. Maybe that puts me in the nutjob camp. But don't trust it. Not enough time.

I saw the movie "Children of Men". Probably was not a good move on my part, but I am completely uncomfortable with the vaccine.

re: #166 FightingBack

We have our own royalty at LGF.

I would aspire to be the court jester.

Silly MSM headline from the silly UN...
UN official says Israel attacked during lull

Karen Abu Zayd, commissioner of the U.N. Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) which helps Palestinian refugees, raised the possible violation of an informal truce in a video press conference with U.N. reporters from her base in Gaza.
...
Abu Zayd said Palestinians in Gaza were surprised when Israeli warplanes sent more than 100 tons of bombs crashing down on key security installations in Hamas-ruled Gaza starting Saturday morning because it was in the middle of the lull.
...
"What we understood here (was) that there was a 48-hour lull to be called, and this was called by the Israelis," Abu Zayd said. "They said they would wait 48 hours. That was on Friday morning, I believe, until Sunday morning, and that they were going to evaluate."
...
When the Israeli offensive began, neither Defense Minister Ehud Barak nor Prime Minister Ehud Olmert made any mention of a lull.

Abu Zayd mentioned the lull when she was asked whether the population of Gaza was aware "that this was all commenced by the Hamas government unilaterally ending the cease-fire and firing rockets."

heh.

re: #182 MandyManners

I would aspire to be the court jester.

Executioner?

re: #182 MandyManners

I would aspire to be the court jester.

I was thinking more on the lines as winsome wench !

(umm,,, you ,, not me ! )

re: #182 MandyManners

I would aspire to be the court jester.

More like the "Sargeant at Arms".

/now FBV, and buzzsawmonkey would probably fight for the motley . . .

re: #182 MandyManners

I would aspire to be the court jester.

You do keep me laughing. Thanks. I need a good joke every now and then.

re: #172 FightingBack

It also causes Venereal Warts. That usually scares 'em enough to beg me for the vaccine, LOL.

Yes, because they cannot see the cancer ...but aren't the warts very early stage of the cancer ..squamous cell ...if you have the warts I would think you already have the virus ...I just do not get it ...if the vaccine was not related to something sexual they would have no problem ...to me it is like people who only want to pray over their children ...

/I say this as a practicing Catholic who believes in evolution ...I am not slamming prayer

re: #178 FightingBack

Sorry, no.
More like This

I stand corrected, I like yours better!

re: #161 JacksonTn

It may be a touchy subject but ...this is one reason I do not understand when people do not want to get their daughters vaccinated for the virus that causes cervical cancer ...if enough people get the vaccine we will greatly reduce the spread of the disease ...

So will teachin our children to not have indiscriminate, unprotected sex!

Note that I didn't say "daughters". Our sons need this lesson, too.

re: #181 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Sigh.
(FB is a doctor)

re: #147 NY Nana

Yes ... and this one ...

[Link: www.cdc.gov...]

Vaccines and Preventable Diseases:
Herpes Zoster Vaccine Q&A
(Shingles) -

is about Shingles.

Shingles occurs in people who have already had chickenpox. Does it matter if a person remembers having had chickenpox?

Anyone 60 years of age or older should get the shingles vaccine, regardless of whether they recall having had chickenpox or not. Studies show that more than 99% of Americans ages 40 and older have had chickenpox, even if they don’t remember getting the disease.

You do not want to have your dormant chickenpox pop up 50 years later and come down with Shingles.

re: #186 BlueCanuck

More like the "Sargeant at Arms".

/now FBV, and buzzsawmonkey would probably fight for the motley . . .

Buzz is more of a bard or a meistersinger.

re: #186 BlueCanuck

More like the "Sargeant at Arms".

/now FBV, and buzzsawmonkey would probably fight for the motley . . .

They'de make a good crue!

I was going to bed, then the vaccine gets mentioned. Now I'm all hopped up!

re: #182 MandyManners

I would aspire to be the court jester.

Nobody fears the fool.

(Name that movie...)

re: #171 MandyManners

Not really. His narcissistic personality was formed at a very early age.

I'm speaking of the adaptability of his POV in the face of current events.

What point of view? He talks out both sides of his face, and when the tough votes are called , he votes present.
Or is that pointless odd view?

re: #161 JacksonTn

Although I think it's a good thing to do, the HPV vaccine protects against only some strains of the virus that causes genital warts that are linked to cervical cancer. There are many. Drs should at least educate patients that this is not a magic bullet for all strains of HPV .

re: #177 Jim D

Right. Notice that these researchers were Japanese. Much of the science done in the United States is not done by Americans.

Wait. Are they Japanese nationals or, are they naturalized citizens?

re: #171 MandyManners

Not really. His narcissistic personality was formed at a very early age.

I'm speaking of the adaptability of his POV in the face of current events.

he's gonna have to be very clever with that once he gets put under a microscope...he doesnt seem to have much conviction except to pander...like Luigi just said and I agree, he saying the right thing now about Hamas, which is really not much...

re: #172 FightingBack

It also causes Venereal Warts. That usually scares 'em enough to beg me for the vaccine, LOL.

Several doctors I know of have given gardasil to their sons. HPV also causes penile cancer.

re: #190 MandyManners

So will teachin our children to not have indiscriminate, unprotected sex!

Note that I didn't say "daughters". Our sons need this lesson, too.

Mandy ...I am all for teaching about unprotected sex for all ...but say a woman is a virgin when she marries but her husband carries the virus he will give her the virus ...science gave us this discovery ...in my opinion we should use it ...

re: #183 Killgore Trout

"I think they saw that Hamas had observed the truce quite strictly for almost six months, certainly for four of the six months, and that they got nothing in turn — because there was to be kind of a deal," Abu Zayd said.

How many rockets can be shot before the truce is not said to be 'strictly' observed?

re: #181 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I was furious! My daughter got it, my wife was with her. No one asked me. Just don't trust the fucking thing. Sorry. Maybe that puts me in the nutjob camp. But don't trust it. Not enough time.

I saw the movie "Children of Men". Probably was not a good move on my part, but I am completely uncomfortable with the vaccine.

Ummm...I can understand your outrage but, teen-aged daughters usually don't consult their fathers in such matters.

re: #161 JacksonTn

It may be a touchy subject but ...this is one reason I do not understand when people do not want to get their daughters vaccinated for the virus that causes cervical cancer ...if enough people get the vaccine we will greatly reduce the spread of the disease ...

People want to avoid that vaccine because they think that allowing their daughters to get it means they approve of teen sex.

Silly, in my mind. We should take advantage of whatever medical advances help us avoid disease.

re: #184 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Executioner?

No.

re: #188 JacksonTn

It's possible to have this virus, and then lose it. So you get another chance to immunize against another attack. The vaccine has a very large experience already (400, 000 doses, about.) and the experience with venereal warts, and cervical cancer is much worse. So take your pick.

re: #183 Killgore Trout

A lull? Where do they get training to just make shit up on the fly?

Crap, time to get ready and go to work. See you folks later on this evening.

/those of you that are still around.

re: #182 MandyManners

I would aspire to be the court jester.

Lady Mandy, Duchess of Trollwhackia, Keeper of the Clue-Bat

(true royals have lots of cool titles)

It could be worse now than in 1918 paradoxically because of modern medicine. Resistances have built up, simple antibiotics that could have saved millions are useless against modern strains.

re: #191 FightingBack

I understand that I am a rube, FB. I have a sister who had cervical cancer caused by the virus. She also had more partners than Solomon.

Doesn't that have anything to do with it?

re: #180 tradewind

Anyone else think that the year of the pandemic being 1918 had something to do with all the deaths? It's not as if broad-spectrum antibiotics were just a trip to the corner ER away...
Just saying.

I have read (and it was a long time ago, so I may not get it right) that they think World War I was a factor, too. You had large groups of people (the armies) and for four years some aspects of science were ignored as we thought of better ways to fight each other. The world's population was, for lack of a better term, "worn out".

re: #199 tradewind

Although I think it's a good thing to do, the HPV vaccine protects against only some strains of the virus that causes genital warts that are linked to cervical cancer. There are many. Drs should at least educate patients that this is not a magic bullet for all strains of HPV .

How many strains of HPV are there? Some cause regular big ugly warts, some cause skin tags, and others cause odd moles. IIRC three are linked to cervical cancer.

re: #159 Killgore Trout

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IlHgbOWj4ore: #159 Killgore Trout

re: #206 reine.de.tout

People want to avoid that vaccine because they think that allowing their daughters to get it means they approve of teen sex.

Silly, in my mind. We should take advantage of whatever medical advances help us avoid disease.

I said it was probably a touch subject ...and I realize it does not cover all strains of the virus but if it keeps one person from getting the disease and helping the spread of the virus ...people do not have the same feelings about chicken pox vaccine ...

re: #183 Killgore Trout

sorta like rejecting the truce never offered...these guys have their backs to the wall...what a bunch of ridiculous tripe...so friggin Arab

re: #206 reine.de.tout

People want to avoid that vaccine because they think that allowing their daughters to get it means they approve of teen sex.

Silly, in my mind. We should take advantage of whatever medical advances help us avoid disease.

We could lie to the parents, say that immunizes them against thinking about teen sex.

re: #40 JacksonTn

An Oncologist told me once that as science unravels more strains they will find that many cancers are caused by a virus ...every step science takes is so exciting ...

My oncologist has told me exactly the same thing.

re: #201 albusteve

he's gonna have to be very clever with that once he gets put under a microscope...he doesnt seem to have much conviction except to pander...like Luigi just said and I agree, he saying the right thing now about Hamas, which is really not much...

What microscope? the press? GMAB.

bbiab--just got an offer for butt rubs--no viruses exchanged-lolol! fascinating discussion tho--will catch up later!

re: #185 sattv4u2

I was thinking more on the lines as winsome wench !

(umm,,, you ,, not me ! )

I'm more Shield-Maiden.

I am off to bed to read a bit. Y'all have a good night!

Speaking of which, gotta' go tame my orc. bbl

re: #219 lifeofthemind

We could lie to the parents, say that immunizes them against thinking about teen sex.

LOL.
Parents who were ever teens themselves know good and well that's just not gonna happen!

re: #207 MandyManners

No.

C'mon...see 211. I like it!

Influenza: Learning from our past...1918

re: #211 Gearhead

Lady Mandy, Duchess of Trollwhackia, Keeper of the Clue-Bat

(true royals have lots of cool titles)

Did you apprentice under George of the Ruth?

re: #213 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I don't view disease as a punishment. I try to prevent disease by teaching behavior, and using whatever means I have. Vaccines are part of the process.

re: #183 Killgore Trout

Silly MSM headline from the silly UN...
UN official says Israel attacked during lull

heh.

I saw this Karen ABuZayd on a news channel answering questions from Gaza. She is anything but impartial. She slammed Israel right and left. Can't say that I'm shocked. It did shock me to hear that she has 11,000 Palestinian employees. I wonder how many of them are Hamas?

I'm just askin' .

re: #226 ArmyWife

Nighty-night!

re: #223 notutopia

Nice!

re: #200 MandyManners

I assume the folks in Japan were indeed Japanese nationals. I have no idea about the one working in Wisconsin.

re: #212 lifeofthemind

On the other hand, left untreated, a certain percentage of URIs, especially in the elderly, will develop into pneumonia, and in 1918, there was limited treatment available.
Antibiotic resistance is a real problem, though. It would help if Drs would quit enabling people who demand RX's for every sniffle and ear infection.

re: #180 tradewind

In Canada, the rapid spread of the flu has already been documented -- it was spread by rail travel -- the soldiers returning from the war (infected carriers) spread the disease (every place the trains stopped and dropped off soldiers, they spread the influenza)...why the flu was so rapidly spread across Canada from coast to coast...

re: #212 lifeofthemind

It could be worse now than in 1918 paradoxically because of modern medicine. Resistances have built up, simple antibiotics that could have saved millions are useless against modern strains.

Antibiotics are antibacterial. Virus are unaffected by antibiotics. The secondary infections that will attack people with weakened immune systems will however be a real problem.

re: #231 SteveC

Did you apprentice under George of the Ruth?

I had a Babe of the Ruth after dinner. Does that count?

re: #220 Dublin(CA)Dude

Why not? We can already prevent some Liver cancer with Hepatitis B vaccine (given at birth these days, hooray) and Cervical cancer with HPV vaccine.

re: #240 Gearhead

I had a Babe of the Ruth after dinner. Does that count?

Did George Of The Jungle ever eat a Babe Of The Ruth!?!?!

re: #220 Dublin(CA)Dude

My oncologist has told me exactly the same thing.

Nice to see you posting ...I have been thinking about you ...every time I watch a comedy ...words are not enough so I won't say anything else ...prayers ...

How many of you read as many books as the President? Kind of hard to say you don't have enough time, when Bush has made time to read this much:

2006: 95 books
2007: 51 books
2008: 40 books

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

re: #225 MandyManners

I'm more Shield-Maiden.

I could definitely see Mandy slaying a fell-beast and kicking the crap out of a Nazgul.

re: #240 Gearhead

I had a Babe of the Ruth after dinner. Does that count?

I think it does. I had a finger of butter!

re: #221 JeremyR

What microscope? the press? GMAB.

probably not but he has alot of people to please now and it cant be done...who knows...he may be the worst nightmare the donks ever elected...he'll have to be a master juggler and he has virtually no experience...the wolves will turn on him...

re: #220 Dublin(CA)Dude

My oncologist has told me exactly the same thing.

I got the same thing, plus the smoking lecture.
Found out later that bladder cancer can be caused by benzene.
On the upside, 2/3 of that engineering department are still alive.
I was the luckiest one -- still have "all my parts".

re: #237 tradewind

It would help if I weren't worried about being sued if it does develop complications.

re: #231 SteveC

Did you apprentice under George of the Ruth?

You know, as a Red Sox fan there used to be a time where I'd have taken offense to a mention of Babe Ruth in a thread about 1918. But thankfully those days are long gone.

/;-p

re: #244 gregg

How many of you read as many books as the President? Kind of hard to say you don't have enough time, when Bush has made time to read this much:

2006: 95 books
2007: 51 books
2008: 40 books

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

See? The number of books per year is decreasing. He's getting dumber! SEE? I TOLD YA!

/Need I say it?

re: #215 JeremyR

There are more than one hundred documented strains of HPV virus.
[Link: www.cancerhelp.org.uk...]

re: #232 FightingBack

I don't view disease as a punishment. I try to prevent disease by teaching behavior, and using whatever means I have. Vaccines are part of the process.

Yes, that's the whole point, imo. Prevent disease by whatever means science and medical advances have provided to us.

I have a immune system deficiency, treated with gamma-globulin and let me tell you - for me, this has been an absolute miracle drug. Thank goodness I live in a day and age and time where this treatment is available.

Same with vaccines - just because a vaccine has to do with preventing a disease that can be caused through sexual activity, doesn't mean people should avoid it, any more than they should avoid a vaccine meant to prevent diseases transmitted other ways (like, the flu!).

re: #232 FightingBack

Not what I meant. Perhaps, I phrased it wrong. Let me try again.

I am under the impression that the HPV is not a problem for sex crazed monogamous couples. It is more for those with multiple partners.

Am I wrong? Please tell me I'm wrong, it'll totally cool my jets about the whole thing.

re: #243 JacksonTn

Nice to see you posting ...I have been thinking about you ...every time I watch a comedy ...words are not enough so I won't say anything else ...prayers ...

Things have changed. I'm living with my cousin in Virginia these days. She's a medical professional and managed to get me a very hard to get appointment with a very well respected oncologist at John Hopkins in Baltimore. He's begun a very aggressive chemo routine, plans some surgery in January and some radiation therapy. He's very optimistic, much more than I have been for a long while.

re: #204 jaunte

"I think they saw that Hamas had observed the truce quite strictly for almost six months, certainly for four of the six months, and that they got nothing in turn — because there was to be kind of a deal," Abu Zayd said.

How many rockets can be shot before the truce is not said to be 'strictly' observed?

It took precisely five days before the hudna was broken by Hamas and their fellow terrorists. Five days.

Five frellin' days. Hundreds of kassams and mortars followed during the so-called ceasefire, which I never considered to have lasted beyond that initial five day period. Of course, I'm a realist, not some pseudorealist diplomat intent on ignoring facts and the history of the terrorist groups involved to try and force Israel to make concessions with groups that want nothing less than Israel's destruction.

But the media and the diplomats all ignored the rockets and the mortars because it was inconvenient to their self-important efforts.

Never mind that those rockets were all fired with murderous intent.

re: #244 gregg

How many of you read as many books as the President? Kind of hard to say you don't have enough time, when Bush has made time to read this much:

2006: 95 books
2007: 51 books
2008: 40 books

[Link: online.wsj.com...]

Seriously? GWB has read "my Pet Goat" 186 times in the last three years?
/ moonbat

Good resource: [Link: whoissick.org...]

Don't ant anyone to feel guilt thinking I repressed a thought for the Dead Thread.
What was nagging the back of my head as really dub about confusing Jews and Juice is that when I was a kid my folks were reluctant to buy store juice drinks because the big brand was Welch's and Welch was the John Birch society guy.
Did anybody else see that connection?

re: #249 FightingBack

Well, people/patients will sue... some of them. But following accepted standards of care/ practice, i.e. the guidelines of the AMA re antibiotic use in URIs, etc, ought to be a defense.

re: #212 lifeofthemind

It could be worse now than in 1918 paradoxically because of modern medicine. Resistances have built up, simple antibiotics that could have saved millions are useless against modern strains.

I'm no expert here, but my understanding is that antibiotics work on bacterial infections, not viruses, and flu is a virus. However, there are now a few antiviral drugs, and the same thing appears to be a problem for them. Example - AIDS antivirals, such as AZT.

re: #254 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

HPV is an infection. Two uninfected partners can't infect each other. But who knows who was infected in the past?