Ooooo.......................Aahhh

Those secondary explosions are a bitch. Makes it so hard to pray.

...and then BLAMMO!

Heh.
.

_{I miss that guy, btw. He was one of our funniest minions...}

It is turning into a great new year for all infidels
Thank you IAF

What the media is not talking about.

Yippie ki-yay Mofos!

The secondary wasn't quite as big as the one on the first mosque/bunker vid.

It's occurred to me that it might be hard to convince some kinds of eejits that this is what's going on, because on TV everything that crashes explodes dramatically.

Are these mosque videos not some of the most damning of Hamas yet?

re: #5 Devil's Advocate

What the media is not talking about.

[Video]

The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.

What?

I am curious
are these videos being shot by drones, F15's/F16's
or surveilance satellites ?

I would not rush in with a politically correct ground invasion designed to spaere Arab lives and would therefore endanger Jewish lives. Keep bombing the hell out of them.

re: #9 freedombilly

Are these mosque videos not some of the most damning of Hamas yet?

They should be, but won't.

re: #11 Adrenalyn

I am curious
are these videos being shot by drones, F15's/F16's
or surveilance satellites ?

Not sats.

Wow.
Korans are explosive

/

I would love to know where the IDF is getting their G2 wrt weapons storage.

re: #13 Spiny Norman

They should be, but won't.

Sadly I think you are 100% correct.

re: #2 pat

Those secondary explosions are a bitch. Makes it so hard to pray.

or prey

re: #11 Adrenalyn

I am curious
are these videos being shot by drones, F15's/F16's
or surveilance satellites ?

Drones, I am quite certain.

The real question is what sorts of weapons does Hamas have left still hidden.

There is concern that they may have advanced Iranian anti-tank mines and other such weapons that could cause serious problems for an Israeli ground incursion.

re: #11 Adrenalyn

I am curious
are these videos being shot by drones, F15's/F16's
or surveilance satellites ?

The cameras on the planes dropping them probably f16

re: #11 Adrenalyn

I am curious
are these videos being shot by drones, F15's/F16's
or surveilance satellites ?

They appear, for the most part, to be shot by the targeting camera.

re: #16 unreconstructed rebel

I would love to know where the IDF is getting their G2 wrt weapons storage.

You look for the minarets?

re: #11 Adrenalyn

I am curious
are these videos being shot by drones, F15's/F16's
or surveilance satellites ?

They're probably being shot by the bombers doing the dropping.

re: #11 Adrenalyn

I am curious
are these videos being shot by drones, F15's/F16's
or surveilance satellites ?

On lot C Warner brothers studios
The middle east is as peaceful as the Vatican
/

re: #9 freedombilly

Are these mosque videos not some of the most damning of Hamas yet?

no, the media, I mean THE AMERICAN MEDIA, will cover for them and say that these are special UN-banned bombs with extra payloads designed in just ot target women, children, rescue workers, priests and other non-combatants

the left will NEVER be swayed
they have to be defeated

and you can quote me on that

re: #15 Shug

Wow.
Korans are explosive

/

"Volatile" medical supplies.

/

re: #16 unreconstructed rebel

I would love to know where the IDF is getting their G2 wrt weapons storage.

Without getting into specifics, they have informants on the ground.

good shot

re: #5 Devil's Advocate

What the media is not talking about.

[Video]

Very good.

re: #16 unreconstructed rebel

I would love to know where the IDF is getting their G2 wrt weapons storage.

Please translate? G2, WRT?

Now for a real provocative comment.
At what point do you remove the normal deference given to religious structures from mosques and start subjecting them to increased surveillance in places outside of Gaza, such as in the US?

discuss

Gee, why doesn't Hamas store their weapons in an armory, like civilized people would? Could it be that they actually need Israel to bomb the mosques for PR or propaganda purposes?

/

re: #22 pat

They appear, for the most part, to be shot by the targeting camera.

This one is really spooky. Catches the handlers red-handed.

22:47 UN chief seeks monitors to enforce Gaza cease-fire (AP)

22:00 Rights group Amnesty International: U.S. response to Gaza `lopsided` (Reuters)

Assholes!

There is a strange disconnect with this REALLY happening half a world away........
Like, it could never happen here.......9/11/2001, hmmmmmmm, now what was that about?...
Now I hear The Big "0" wants to eliminate nukes......why is my stomach squirming?

This is how you win wars.....you can't let your enemy get a time out or claim that he's on base....flatten the SOB's.

re: #33 rawmuse

Gee, why doesn't Hamas store their weapons in an armory, like civilized people would? Could it be that they actually need Israel to bomb the mosques for PR or propaganda purposes?

/

They have dual purpose armory/mosques.
Saves on rental costs that way.

No more hiding behind your religion, mosque can mean target.

re: #31 Walter L. Newton

Please translate? G2, WRT?

Intelligence; with respect to

re: #34 unreconstructed rebel

This one is really spooky. Catches the handlers red-handed.

I have watched this one numerous times. It isn't getting old yet!

re: #33 rawmuse

Gee, why doesn't Hamas store their weapons in an armory, like civilized people would? Could it be that they actually need Israel to bomb the mosques for PR or propaganda purposes?

/

Civilized people would hide their weapons, too.

But Hamas is a religiously-based organization, and I think they get a little extra thrill out of "hiding" them there, where everybody knows they will be.

re: #36 IslandLibertarian

Eliminating nukes is a profoundly pessimistic thing, it means you think humanity cannot ever grow up. It is very unchristian in a way, because it denies the perfectibility of man.

re: #33 rawmuse

Gee, why doesn't Hamas store their weapons in an armory, like civilized people would? Could it be that they actually need Israel to bomb the mosques for PR or propaganda purposes?

/

Well, their "armories" have already been obliterated, and Hamas know the Media and international "diplomats" will have a case of the vapors if the IDF bombs a "holy mosque"...

Any wagers their next step will be hiding their munitions in schools?

re: #41 freedombilly

I have watched this one numerous times. It isn't getting old yet!

True, it's a few days old. But, I don't see the same sort of imaging in the others.

re: #34 unreconstructed rebel

This one is really spooky. Catches the handlers red-handed.

That has to sting. . .

re: #39 Ojoe

No more hiding behind your religion, mosque can mean target.

Those bearded sons of dogs use Mosques to hide weapons and terrorists because Islam it's always really been a Ropma™.

re: #45 Spiny Norman

Well, their "armories" have already been obliterated, and Hamas know the Media and international "diplomats" will have a case of the vapors if the IDF bombs a "holy mosque"...

Any wagers their next step will be hiding their munitions in schools?

They have already done that

At the end, the facade of the mosque is shown in exquisite detail.
This mosque is, if you believe the MSM, standing in a 'refuge camp'.

Perhaps they might like to explain how come Hamas is able to build such mosques while its population is eating grass and shivering in tents?

/Didn't think so.

re: #37 GuinnessMan

This is how you win wars.....you can't let your enemy get a time out or claim that he's on base....flatten the SOB's.

What is this "win" you speak of?

re: #31 Walter L. Newton

Please translate? G2, WRT?

G2 is shorthand for intelligence......
WRT = with regard to........

re: #24 looking closely

They're probably being shot by the bombers doing the dropping.

I think it depends on which video you're talking about. Some videos show the bomb/missile coming from a different direction than the video perspective, suggesting either a UAV or another manned aircraft. Others show gun camera footage from the aircraft firing the weapons.

re: #44 Ojoe

Eliminating nukes is a profoundly pessimistic thing, it means you think humanity cannot ever grow up. It is very unchristian in a way, because it denies the perfectibility of man.

I didn't think it was Christian doctrine that man can be perfected (at least in this life), but that it is a Utopian Marxist/Socialist view?

re: #52 LGoPs

G2 is shorthand for intelligence......
WRT = with regard to........

Thanks. My military jargon knowledge is limited to things like Hogans Heroes.

I wonder what was used to make it go *BANG*.

re: #32 lifeofthemind

Now for a real provocative comment.
At what point do you remove the normal deference given to religious structures from mosques and start subjecting them to increased surveillance in places outside of Gaza, such as in the US?

discuss

I don't think the Israelis do give Gazan mosques any special deference.

The answer to the second part is that Mosques in the USA receive no special deference either, with the added burden of probable cause and a warrant from a judge necessary for surveillance.

IE, if you are in law enforcement and believe a mosque is being used for criminal activity you can do the same sorts of things you'd do to any other building you suspected of such. That sort of surveillance is not so PC, but if you have probable cause, you have probable cause.

re: #50 yma o hyd

Perhaps they might like to explain how come Hamas is able to build such mosques while its population is eating grass and shivering in tents?

Ask the money people at UNWRA.

/not that they'll want to answer you

re: #9 freedombilly

Are these mosque videos not some of the most damning of Hamas yet?

Nope, because Hamas considers it its religious obligation to kill Israelis and destroy Israel. Hamas would likely recut the video footage to attempt to recruit more jihadis to the cause.

There seems to be less of a hullabaloo over bombing a mosq that there was about a koran being defiled in a university or Gitmo.

re: #54 Spiny Norman

With accepting the grace of God we would be freed from sin, rendering nukes harmless.

Can't post a lot now; work to do. But that's the gist of it.

re: #48 Age Of Freedom

Those bearded sons of dogs use Mosques to hide weapons and terrorists because Islam it's always really been a Ropma™.

They're just doing what their iranian masters tell them to.
Wasn't there a huge explosion in an Iranian mosque earlier last year?

Wonder how many mosques elswhere, in Western countries, also are weapons stores.

re: #57 taxfreekiller

best intel most likely is down loading the msm hacks cell phones after
they go all "in-bed" with some ham-ass's,,,,

or bug trace where they go,
traitors will do that for you

The Israelis have multiple methods of determining what is happening on the ground in Gaza, some of them rather mundane.

(Use your imagination).

Hey Achmed, let's be going by mosque today. Should be a blast!

re: #58 looking closely

I don't think the Israelis do give Gazan mosques any special deference.

The answer to the second part is that Mosques in the USA receive no special deference either, with the added burden of probable cause and a warrant from a judge necessary for surveillance.

IE, if you are in law enforcement and believe a mosque is being used for criminal activity you can do the same sorts of things you'd do to any other building you suspected of such. That sort of surveillance is not so PC, but if you have probable cause, you have probable cause.

Wrong. In NYC during the bad old days, known to archeologists as the Dinkins Ear, it was known that mosques were being used to cover criminal acts and the police were ordered to keep out. Al Sharpton showed up and escorted the police out of a mosque.

Destroy the Masques.

These mosques are weapons warehouses & would be safe houses for criminal activity. They are exempted from protection under the Geneva Convention

Just hit every mosque. That way, they'll blow the entire Gaza Strip up.

In these videos I've noticed an arrow-like mouse (in this video it's a circle) moving around on the screen. What is that? Is it a cursor of some sort or something the drone's camera is creating? Thoughts?

re: #65 opnion

Hey Achmed, let's be going by mosque today. Should be a blast!

SILENCE! I KEEL YOU!

re: #72 HoosierHoops

SILENCE! I KEEL YOU!

Allah Akbar!

I know of no other religion that views their houses of worship as an armory -- even the medieval church kept their weapons in their castles and their religion in their cathedrals.

If Muslims find this sort of dual use building to be acceptable, it says a multitude of things about their faith -- all negative.

re: #74 stevieray

I know of no other religion that views their houses of worship as an armory -- even the medieval church kept their weapons in their castles and their religion in their cathedrals.

If Muslims find this sort of dual use building to be acceptable, it says a multitude of things about their faith -- all negative.

This is a very depraved enemy. Imagine sending your kid on a SUICIDE mission!

I'm sure the explosives were just in the mosque because they give it away as door prizes at Friday night bingo.

/

re: #75 opnion

The freakazoid they offed the other day sent his kid off to be a suicide bomber.....

re: #74 stevieray

I know of no other religion that views their houses of worship as an armory -- even the medieval church kept their weapons in their castles and their religion in their cathedrals.

If Muslims find this sort of dual use building to be acceptable, it says a multitude of things about their faith -- all negative.

Probably says loads about how they see their "Muslim" faith as well, if they're willing to use their "houses of worships" as weapons stashes. But of course it's all for the propaganda--they'll probably say the secondary explosions are from the bombs or something.

re: #76 bulwrk

I'm sure the explosives were just in the mosque because they give it away as door prizes at Friday night bingo.

/

What did you win? All I got was another stupid RPG.

re: #66 lifeofthemind

Wrong. In NYC during the bad old days, known to archeologists as the Dinkins Ear, it was known that mosques were being used to cover criminal acts and the police were ordered to keep out. Al Sharpton showed up and escorted the police out of a mosque.

That's a political decision, not a legal one.

As mentioned, surveilling minorities isn't PC. If the chief executive in a given jurisdiction lacks the 'nads to pursue certain criminals, that's on his/her head.

Analogously, political (not tactical or military) considerations are likely restraining Israel's imminent ground invasion into Gaza right now.

But despite the non-PC nature of such work, mosque surveillance probably does happen. Allegations that the FBI was monitoring certain mosques raised a stink in Southern CA about 6 months ago.

Unfortunately, this is nothing new. During Gulf War I, the Iraqi government knew that in our air campaign we were systematically annihilating their command and control and intelligence structure. We blew up their Defense Ministry. They moved it. We blew that up. They moved it to a hospital basement. We blew the shit out of the hospital. The papers didn't skip a beat showing full page color pictures of hospital gurneys and wounded civilians buried in rubble. Conveniently, the mention of the command and control being positioned in the hospital basement was a single line at the end of the article, if mentioned at all.

Funny thing, I sat in a lecture in high school were the guest lecturer presented a slideshow on the "Powers of Media to Impress Human Opinion". His whole slideshow was pictures like that. He got flustered when me and a friend kept interrupting his presentation with those little inconvenient "facts". He showed a picture of a child missing both arms and my buddy stood up and yelled if Saddam hadn't put his intelligence HQ in the bottom of the school, then that child would still have arms.

Israel is going to be blamed for this and so much more. So be it. If opinion of this is left up to the media and those who base their entire moral code on the six o'clock news, I'd rather live and be a son-of-bitch than die being considerate neighbor.

What?
No media discussion of the breaking of the Geneva Conventions by Hamas' putting munitions inside Mosques?

re: #78 davinvalkri

Probably says loads about how they see their "Muslim" faith as well, if they're willing to use their "houses of worships" as weapons stashes. But of course it's all for the propaganda--they'll probably say the secondary explosions are from the bombs or something.

Let's see those gi-normous crowds now chanting the glories of Hamas.

re: #77 WhiteRasta

The freakazoid they offed the other day sent his kid off to be a suicide bomber.....

That's actually what made me think of it, but it seems common among the ROP.

re: #79 HoosierHoops

What did you win? All I got was another stupid RPG.

If you get 3 you can trade up for an exploding vest.

re: #79 HoosierHoops

What did you win? All I got was another stupid RPG.

Lucky bastard--I just got some 7.62 mm bullets.

So how's the gameplay, and are the characters all angsty?

/Role Playing Game or Rocket Propelled Grenade*?
*Yeah, I know it's something in Russian.

re: #45 Spiny Norman

Well, their "armories" have already been obliterated, and Hamas know the Media and international "diplomats" will have a case of the vapors if the IDF bombs a "holy mosque"...

Any wagers their next step will be hiding their munitions in schools?

They already do so, I'm pretty sure.

It is a war crime to use a mosque to store weapons. When a mosque is used to store weapons it loses its immunity under international law:

Protocol II
Additional to the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949, and relating to the Protection of Victims of Non-International Armed Conflicts, 8 June 1977

Art. 16. Protection of cultural objects and of places of worship

Without prejudice to the provisions of the Hague Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict of 14 May 1954, it is prohibited to commit any acts of hostility directed against historic monuments, works of art or places of worship which constitute the cultural or spiritual heritage of peoples, and to use them in support of the military effort.

Drop your bombs between the minarets ... down the Gaza way

re: #88 SaracensAtTheGates

It is a war crime to use a mosque to store weapons. When a mosque is used to store weapons it loses its immunity under international law:

We all know that! I'll bet Hamas knows it too. Too bad the media doesn't, or if it does it's sitting on it.

re: #74 stevieray

I know of no other religion that views their houses of worship as an armory -- even the medieval church kept their weapons in their castles and their religion in their cathedrals.

If Muslims find this sort of dual use building to be acceptable, it says a multitude of things about their faith -- all negative.

This isn't for religious reasons, but rather for tactical ones.

The classic reason to do this is because if a mosque is destroyed, it creates a public relations coup for the Muslim group in question. "Evil Israelis are destroying our houses of worship"!

I'll bet you cash money Hamas literally has arms caches inside of kindergardens in Gaza, for much the same reason. If their arms cache gets destroyed, at least it will make the Israelis look bad.

re: #55 Walter L. Newton

Thanks. My military jargon knowledge is limited to things like Hogans Heroes.

Didn't you ever do a production of "South Pacific"?

Media spin:

On Monday morning, Israeli planes bombed a mosque. The house next to the mosque ‎collapsed and inside, five sisters aged 2 to 10 years old were killed.‎
Two weeks prior to this carnage.....

Richard Falk.

I yi yi!

re: #91 looking closely

Bet they also have arms in the hospitals, too.

Houses of the Holy

re: #74 stevieray

I know of no other religion that views their houses of worship as an armory -- even the medieval church kept their weapons in their castles and their religion in their cathedrals.

If Muslims find this sort of dual use building to be acceptable, it says a multitude of things about their faith -- all negative.

Two threads ago I posted this.
Scary thought to me.

The whole place is a powder keg for crying out loud.

re: #82 mean Gene

What?
No media discussion of the breaking of the Geneva Conventions by Hamas' putting munitions inside Mosques?

Hamas isn't a signatory to the Geneva conventions.

But by doing this, yes, they forgo some of the protections potentially offered to them by ISRAEL's adherence to the rules.

re: #88 SaracensAtTheGates

It is a war crime to use a mosque to store weapons. When a mosque is used to store weapons it loses its immunity under international law:

nice job...

re: #54 Spiny Norman

Most of the people who want to "get rid of the nukes" really mean that they want to be able to hit the USA without being nuked in retaliation. I've not heard of one prominant "Peace" activist calling on Pakistan to unilaterially get rid of her nuclear weapons.

And all we hear about Iran is how we shouldn't hit them before they get nukes. No one is really calling on Iran to stop working on them.

re: #93 mean Gene

On Monday morning, Israeli planes bombed a mosque. The house next to the mosque ‎collapsed and inside, five sisters aged 2 to 10 years old were killed.‎
Two weeks prior to this carnage.....

Two weeks prior to this carnage a Hamas official married four of the five sisters, the 10-year-old being rejected as too elderly.

I really do hope that Israel goes all the way this time, and eliminates Hamas completely, even if it means a house to house search following a ground invasion. World opinion be dammed. I'd rather have Israel condemned and alive, then dead and eulogized.

re: #92 Alouette

Didn't you ever do a production of "South Pacific"?

Actually, I played Sgt. Johnson in South Pacific in 1982. But I didn't learn much military jargon, but I did do a lot of neat dancing and macho poses.

re: #94 WhiteRasta

Bet they also have arms in the hospitals, too.

They've been documented smuggling arms from place to place inside of ambulances, a clear violation of the rules of war.

Not only does Hamas certainly store arms inside hospitals, I just read a report that senior Hamas leaders are currently hiding in said hospitals disguised as physicians.

re: #74 stevieray

I know of no other religion that views their houses of worship as an armory -- even the medieval church kept their weapons in their castles and their religion in their cathedrals.

If Muslims find this sort of dual use building to be acceptable, it says a multitude of things about their faith -- all negative.

Did the IRA even stoop so low as to store weapons in a cathedral?

I honestly wonder, that's why I'm asking.

re: #63 yma o hyd

They're just doing what their iranian masters tell them to.
Wasn't there a huge explosion in an Iranian mosque earlier last year?

Wonder how many mosques elswhere, in Western countries, also are weapons stores.

There's really only one way to tell.

Well, they finally admitted it: he was a XXXXXX.....

Dane held for 'shooting Israelis'
Police outside scene of shooting in Denmark
Police said they were unsure of the motive for the shooting

A Danish man of Palestinian origin has been arrested on suspicion of shooting and wounding two Israeli salesmen at a shopping centre in Odense in Denmark.

Police said they were unsure what the motive was, but Danish media have speculated it may have been a protest against Israeli air raids in Gaza.

The 27-year-old suspect turned himself in. He reportedly denies trying to kill the men but admits carrying a gun.

The men were shot on Wednesday while selling hair products.

One was hit in the arm and the other in the leg.

They were both still in hospital on Thursday but their injuries were not life-threatening, Reuters news agency reported.

Police said the pair had been in Denmark for about a week.
[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

I'm a little late to this post and I posted this to the last thread.
Late last night, early morning EST, while several LGF ers were posting and monitoring Ynet,
It was hacked!
Israeli Domain Registration Server Hacked

re: #104 looking closely

Disguised as physicians and doing vigilante murders too.

There is no end to their depravity.

re: #91 looking closely

This isn't for religious reasons, but rather for tactical ones.

I think its both.

I seem to remember the former Prime Minister of Turkey [Erdogan?] calling the minarets of Europe "missiles" and the mosques "fortresses". The use of the mosque as an extension of the military has a long history in Islam... in both imagery and reality.

re: #104 looking closely

They've been documented smuggling arms from place to place inside of ambulances, a clear violation of the rules of war.

Not only does Hamas certainly store arms inside hospitals, I just read a report that senior Hamas leaders are currently hiding in said hospitals disguised as physicians.

I'm not a Hamas supporter by any means, but it almost sounds like Hamas has Israel in zug zwang. No matter how Israel plays, she's going to lose--if she doesn't bomb these positions, command and control is intact and Hamas gets to fire more rockets. If she does, Hamas plays propaganda and gets new weapons and supporters from all over the world.

Why did they store their arms in the mosques?
(1) Allah will protect their arms.
(2) The stupid infidels would never suspect that the arms are in the mosques.
(3) When the arms storage places are attacked, they can scream about it and make up new lies, and use those lies as recruiting propaganda for new jihadis.

re: #107 mean Gene

Police said they were unsure what the motive was, but Danish media have speculated it may have been a protest against Israeli air raids in Gaza.

But really, he was just pissed that they sold him a load of Dead Sea cosmetics for $400.

re: #107 mean Gene

Well, they finally admitted it: he was a XXXXXX.....

Dane .

Police said they were unsure what the motive was, but Danish media have speculated it may have been a protest against Israeli air raids in Gaza.

/Boy, they're sure going out on a limb there.

Seriously, Danish police aren't that stupid. They know DAMN WELL what prompted the shooting, just can't say it for reasons of political correctness.

re: #86 davinvalkri

Lucky bastard--I just got some 7.62 mm bullets.

So how's the gameplay, and are the characters all angsty?

/Role Playing Game or Rocket Propelled Grenade*?
*Yeah, I know it's something in Russian.

My wife said there is a kid (8th grade) who has chosen Alexander Kalashakov as his choice of a person who has impacted the world the most.

The teachers, of course, are totally freaked out that the kid will learn how to build an AK-47. The kid wants links on Alexander's biography for his report.
(I was forced to ask my wife if she thinks Kalshakov has had less impact than the guy who invented 2% milk ...)

I casually searched the 'net, and indeed found various and sundry links on how to build an AK-47, but I can't find a decent biography (promising sounding Russian sites have viruses).

Personally, I think the kid is correct in his assesment of "having a worldwide impact". Anybody know of any decent links on a biography?

re: #97 Osama Bin Asshat

The whole place is a powder keg for crying out loud.

the other reason why the IDF needs to go in...they absolutely must de-weaponize the entire strip....how and why would Israel negotiate from a point anywhere less?....everything, small arms and ammo, RPGs, explosives, all of it...then they can sit back and ask...okay! who wants to talk?...I dont want to sound cavalier buy they must do ythis with extreme prejudice so to speak

Good Afternoon everyone! I hope the Israeli leadership keeps leading, they are doing a great job.
O/T, anyone seen this? The Dem leadership plans to have Gov. Blagojevich's senate pick physically barred from the senate floor. This is gonna be good.

[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

re: #90 davinvalkri

We all know that! I'll bet Hamas knows it too. Too bad the media doesn't, or if it does it's sitting on it.

I have been paying careful attention to all news broadcasts, on every channel that I can get. So far I have not found one outlet that will inform the viewers of this one salient point.

Not one. Not one since this conflict started.

re: #117 CapeCoddah

Good Afternoon everyone! I hope the Israeli leadership keeps leading, they are doing a great job.
O/T, anyone seen this? The Dem leadership plans to have Gov. Blagojevich's senate pick physically barred from the senate floor. This is gonna be good.

[Link: politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...]

Blagojevich has the Democrat Party over a barrel.

HOLY CRAPOLA!
Says alot about their faith when they are storing bombs in their "churches"
At least the women aren't at risk, they half to stay home and raise the little terrorists and make falafel

So where's the outcry from "moderate" Muslims about Ham-ass profaning mosques by using them as armories?
This could lead to suggestions that mosques all over the world get searched for weapons. You'd think CAIR would care about that.

Do I hear any condemnation? No, only a soft buzzing, like mosque-itos.

When you worship the god of death, hate and slavery, it is only fitting that you grace his temple with idols of death.

re: #100 Iron Fist

It was a truism of the cold war that both sides' "peace" movements wished the West to disarm. End of sentence.

re: #114 looking closely

/Boy, they're sure going out on a limb there.

Seriously, Danish police aren't that stupid. They know DAMN WELL what prompted the shooting, just can't say it for reasons of political correctness.

PC is going to be the death of all of us. It's a perfect weapon in that it prevents us from even naming the enemy, let alone fighting him. Brilliantly evil and as such it needs to be eradicated.....

re: #120 unreconstructed rebel

Blagojevich has the Democrat Party over a barrel.

What does he have tattooed on his forehead?

re: #111 davinvalkri

I'm not a Hamas supporter by any means, but it almost sounds like Hamas has Israel in zug zwang. No matter how Israel plays, she's going to lose--if she doesn't bomb these positions, command and control is intact and Hamas gets to fire more rockets. If she does, Hamas plays propaganda and gets new weapons and supporters from all over the world.

Yup.

Unless Israel suddenly grows a new set of 'nads, and is willing to create unprecedented collateral damage in Gaza, Hamas is going to "win" this war, the same way Hizb'Allah "won" the recent Lebanon war. I wouldn't bet on Olmert and his cronies having more nads this time than the last time, either.

All Hamas has to do to "win" is have some leaders survive and declare victory. And for that to happen, all it has to do is wait things out until international pressure against collateral damage makes Israel withdraw.

Hamas may have most of its weapons destroyed, and even much of its leadership, but the weapons will slowly be replenished, as will the leaders. Making rockets is so cheap and easy its virtually impossible to eliminate Hamas' ability to do so, short of entirely eliminating Hamas.

Explosives? Nope. Pop rocks.

re: #129 Hard Right

Explosives? Nope. Pop rocks.

Coke/Mentos?

re: #82 mean Gene

What?
No media discussion of the breaking of the Geneva Conventions by Hamas' putting munitions inside Mosques?

Apparently there were few, if any mosques in Geneva in 1949. Therefore the media must be breaking new ground each and every time they bring this up without discussing whether the Arab Street advocates the Geneva Conventions.

I'm positive that Israel cannot leave this without a ground invasion - as far as I can tell, the number of Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades (Hamas military wing) fighters actually killed so far has been minimal - i think the majority have been Hamas police. The fact that there are so many more rockets and smuggling tunnels left is reason enough but I think this is also Israel's chance to go in, surround Gaza City, and then send in special forces to FINALLY start taking out every single one of Hamas' top leadership and commanders.

If the IDF should knock off say 30 Hamas leaders and commanders in a few days, I think the Green Hamas Flag would soon be blazing white.

re: #128 looking closely

Israel should declare that even a single rocket attack after they're done will mean Israel will annex Gaza. Residents will not be eligible for Israeli citizenship, but will be encouraged to leave. If they engage in terrorism, they will be arrested, and the family deported.

If the UN bitches and moans, too f*ing bad.

re: #115 jwb7605

My wife said there is a kid (8th grade) who has chosen Alexander Kalashakov as his choice of a person who has impacted the world the most.

The teachers, of course, are totally freaked out that the kid will learn how to build an AK-47. The kid wants links on Alexander's biography for his report.
(I was forced to ask my wife if she thinks Kalshakov has had less impact than the guy who invented 2% milk ...)

I casually searched the 'net, and indeed found various and sundry links on how to build an AK-47, but I can't find a decent biography (promising sounding Russian sites have viruses).

Personally, I think the kid is correct in his assesment of "having a worldwide impact". Anybody know of any decent links on a biography?

I have nothing to offer, except, from this high school teacher, a shriek of laughter. That's a pretty smart eighth grader, with a sick and twisted frame of mind. He must be hell on wheels in class. What's the actual assignment? Paper, presentation, etc.?

Sadly, I think he can make the case for worldwide impact. Maybe next year they should specify "positive" worldwide impact.

re: #132 ornery elephant

I'm positive that Israel cannot leave this without a ground invasion - as far as I can tell, the number of Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades (Hamas military wing) fighters actually killed so far has been minimal - i think the majority have been Hamas police. The fact that there are so many more rockets and smuggling tunnels left is reason enough but I think this is also Israel's chance to go in, surround Gaza City, and then send in special forces to FINALLY start taking out every single one of Hamas' top leadership and commanders.

If the IDF should knock off say 30 Hamas leaders and commanders in a few days, I think the Green Hamas Flag would soon be blazing white.

Not so easy.
Gaza has 1.5 million residents, and the Hamas members look like everyone else.

Missed it in the previous thread, but if Yochanan is still around...

MAZEL TOV!

re: #123 Kosh's Shadow

So where's the outcry from "moderate" Muslims .....

"Moderate" and "silent" apparently have the same translation "over there".

Other synonyms include "reasonable", "civilized", etc.

It's an efficient language

re: #135 looking closely

Gaza's people elected hamas. Gaza is hamas.

re: #130 jamgarr

Coke/Mentos?

Yup. Upper floor Coke, Bottom floor Pop Rocks. Darn those Joooooooos!

re: #135 looking closely

Not so easy.
Gaza has 1.5 million residents, and the Hamas members look like everyone else.

If we could just get evil to SHOW somehow...

re: #135 looking closely

Not so easy.
Gaza has 1.5 million residents, and the Hamas members look like everyone else.

I'm thinking that Israel may have an "in" on some of these tunnel systems.

If they can get their troops into the tunnels and bunkers, they don't have to worry about who is civilian and who is not, it is safe to assume anybody they see is an enemy combatant.

The major problem underground would be booby-traps, the major problem above ground would be ambushes.

I still harbour the arguably naive view that Israel has some unforeseen tricks up it's sleeve. I've got faith in Gabi Ashkenazi's military reforms.

re: #135 looking closely

Not so easy.
Gaza has 1.5 million residents, and the Hamas members look like everyone else.

I agree it's not an easy task but in the past, when several Hamas leaders have been taken out, their backbone turns to jelly. I have no doubt that if Israel turns back now, sure they've done real damage, that the situation will be the same in six months. For me it comes down to two choices, Israel either takes out Hamas leadership once and for all or they have to hope for some miracle that these new rockets can't come in anymore from Egypt.

I bet that evil Sarah Palin has explosives stored in her church. I wonder why they didn't blow last week when it was set fire?

/

re: #133 Kosh's Shadow

Israel should declare that even a single rocket attack after they're done will mean Israel will annex Gaza. Residents will not be eligible for Israeli citizenship, but will be encouraged to leave. If they engage in terrorism, they will be arrested, and the family deported.

If the UN bitches and moans, too f*ing bad.

colonize Gaza, strictly control all crossings, ignore Fatah, police it with IFD troops then start cleaning up the water front and put in some money making enterprises...scew Islam and allow anyone to leave that wants to...if they have nowhere to go scream humanitarian crisis

re: #115 jwb7605

My wife said there is a kid (8th grade) who has chosen Alexander Kalashakov as his choice of a person who has impacted the world the most.

The teachers, of course, are totally freaked out that the kid will learn how to build an AK-47. The kid wants links on Alexander's biography for his report.
(I was forced to ask my wife if she thinks Kalshakov has had less impact than the guy who invented 2% milk ...)

I casually searched the 'net, and indeed found various and sundry links on how to build an AK-47, but I can't find a decent biography (promising sounding Russian sites have viruses).

Personally, I think the kid is correct in his assesment of "having a worldwide impact". Anybody know of any decent links on a biography?

I can help him learn how to build an AK-47 (semi-auto). It's fairly easy. >:)

re: #133 Kosh's Shadow

Israel should declare that even a single rocket attack after they're done will mean Israel will annex Gaza. Residents will not be eligible for Israeli citizenship, but will be encouraged to leave. If they engage in terrorism, they will be arrested, and the family deported.

If the UN bitches and moans, too f*ing bad.

This is fantasy tough-talk. .

So far, Israel has NOT proven resistant to pressure from the UN and others. I'm not sure what's changed now.

Assuming Israel does have the political wherewithall to do what you say (and I assure you, it doesn't), what the hell would Israel want with Gaza anyway? The place is a s@#thole. Annexing it would mean Israel would have to police it. Then EVERY problem in Gaza would be Israel's problem. Not worth it.

Encouraging the Gazans to leave sounds nice, but don't forget, there are 1.5 *million* of them, and most are dirt poor. Where are they going to go? Egypt won't have them, and neither will any other Arab nation.

re: #2 pat

Those secondary explosions are a bitch. Makes it so hard to pray.

Resisting the urge to mention "flying carpets"...

CNN Header....
Protests against Gaza violence at Israeli Embassy in D.C.
Watch Now: Live on CNN.com »

re: #135 looking closely

Not so easy.
Gaza has 1.5 million residents, and the Hamas members look like everyone else.

no weapons, no problem

re: #142 ornery elephant

I agree it's not an easy task but in the past, when several Hamas leaders have been taken out, their backbone turns to jelly. I have no doubt that if Israel turns back now, sure they've done real damage, that the situation will be the same in six months. For me it comes down to two choices, Israel either takes out Hamas leadership once and for all or they have to hope for some miracle that these new rockets can't come in anymore from Egypt.

Seriously doubt that miracle is going to come around, and I'm not sure Israel could take out all of Hamas' leadership.

re: #134 SanFranciscoZionist

I have nothing to offer, except, from this high school teacher, a shriek of laughter. That's a pretty smart eighth grader, with a sick and twisted frame of mind. He must be hell on wheels in class. What's the actual assignment? Paper, presentation, etc.?

Sadly, I think he can make the case for worldwide impact. Maybe next year they should specify "positive" worldwide impact.

If he's one of the kids involved in projects from last year, there may be hope for the next generation.
My favorite from last year's projects was the presentation on Eugenics.
I was on a 3-judge team (several teams, of course), and the other two judges were totally, seriously, dedicated liberals.

They were unaware that such a thing ever existed, totally shocked that it started from one of Darwin's relatives, and couldn't deal with the Nazi pictures on some of the history.
That was just barely better than the student who interviewed his Grandmother, a survivor of Auschwitz. The judges wouldn't accept his premise until he produced original (genuine 1940 era) photographs and letters from a scrapbook.
The title of that project was "Never Again". That was the hard part for the other two judges.

Nytol.

A War About Truth and Lies

Official Hamas goal- the destruction of the Zionist entity using Islamic means.

Official Israeli goal and the stated objective of every Israeli government since the State's formation- to live in peace in Middle East.

Hamas shoots rocket designed to maximize casualties and fires them indiscriminately into Israel without regard for civilian or noncombatant considerations. Hamas is shooting everything it can into Israel without any apparent effort to target ANY military target. Hamas sends text messages to Israelis taunting them they are going to die.

Israel, with overwhelming firepower, uses a fraction of her available firepower and has managed to avoid as many civilian deaths as possible. She uses phone calls and texts to warn civilians in danger areas to evacuate. News reports confirm the overwhelming majority of Palestinian casualties are military.

Hamas accuses Israel of genocide, collective punishment and crimes against humanity.

Israel is sending relief columns through, allowing people to leave, sending food and water and taking casualties to her hospitals.

The contrasts could not be more clear. War is a horrible thing, the Palestinians are suffering and their suffering will get worse before it gets better, but I can predict with 100% certainty that, at worst, all but 10-15000 Palestinians in Gaza will survive this war and 90% of those who fall will be fighters. That is not genocide, that is not a war crime, that is 21st century warfare. Unlike the all the history of warfare up until late in the last century, modern warfare seeks the military defeat of the enemy with the fewest possible casualties to all involved. Even as recently as WWII fights like the Battle of the Hurtgen Forest and Iwo Jima, to say nothing of the 25 mission requirement for bomber pilots were utterly inhumane by current standards. Only the precision of modern weaponry coupled with modern military training standards makes lower casualty war possible. It should be a badge of shame and dishonor to fight in the old way of war, yet we routinely expect no better of those we fight- and they never seem to let us down on this score.

But from all this we can clearly see right from wrong, who deserves to win and who deserves to lose, which is a society that deserves the peace that comes through a convincing victory and which desperately needs the shame and ignominy of defeat to destroy their worthless leaders and open the doors to new ones who will actually value the lives of their own people enough not to bring the cataclysms of war fighting a fight they cannot possibly win and this is doubly true when no effort whatsoever was expended seeking peaceful resolution and justice.

We should not shirk from wishing Israel a full and great victory but we should take no joy in Palestinian suffering and no less equally wish it over for them soon.

Enjoy the weekend.

re: #149 albusteve

no weapons, no problem

I read a hair-raising account by an Israeli whose unit went into Jenin. In a culture where suicide belts are common, figuring out who is unarmed and who's about to blow is hard and dangerous.

re: #133 Kosh's Shadow

Israel should declare that even a single rocket attack after they're done will mean Israel will annex Gaza. Residents will not be eligible for Israeli citizenship, but will be encouraged to leave. If they engage in terrorism, they will be arrested, and the family deported.

If the UN bitches and moans, too f*ing bad.

Repost from earlier...

skip ahead to about 5:47, and listen to Netanyahu's response.

What do you think?

Hamas is storing weapons in schools and even under its main hospital! It is also launching mortars from UNRWA school grounds and the roofs of residential buildings.

It's my understanding that Israel has taken out about 2/3 of Hamas's munitions stockpiles, but the 1/3 that remain are deep inside civilian areas in residential buildings, schools, etc. The only way Israel is going to be able to eliminate them is by sending in ground troops, who will be met by fanatical women and children wearing bomb vests. No wonder Israel is in no big hurry to send its boys into that hellhole.

re: #138 WhiteRasta

Gaza's people elected hamas. Gaza is hamas.

Well, I agree that the Palestinians collectively bear responsibility for electing Hamas, but by this logic, you and I are both Democrats.

Don't forget, Hamas took control of Gaza in a violent coup. They're a bunch of thugs, and they control the place by force of arms and physical intimidation. I think a lot of Gazans would be quite happy to be rid of Hamas, but they don't really have the ability to do anything about it.

Let's hope this time Israeli military officials don't get all Colin Powell on their big success--and UNDO it.

Never Quit while you're ahead.

Why doesn't Israel use the Hamas Charter against itself

There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.

Every that believes in peace, report to Sector X. Everyone that believes in the Hamas Charter, stay put and fight like a man.

re: #115 jwb7605

My wife said there is a kid (8th grade) who has chosen Alexander Kalashakov as his choice of a person who has impacted the world the most.

The teachers, of course, are totally freaked out that the kid will learn how to build an AK-47. The kid wants links on Alexander's biography for his report.
(I was forced to ask my wife if she thinks Kalshakov has had less impact than the guy who invented 2% milk ...)

I casually searched the 'net, and indeed found various and sundry links on how to build an AK-47, but I can't find a decent biography (promising sounding Russian sites have viruses).

Personally, I think the kid is correct in his assesment of "having a worldwide impact". Anybody know of any decent links on a biography?

I think you have the wrong guy.

If he means the creator of the AK-47, google "Mikhail Kalashnikov"

Lots of info on him.

Ooohhhh....Allahh
If you watch the black smoke column at 20, 21, 22
You can see Allah vacate the building.
Check it out. Radical.

re: #149 albusteve

no weapons, no problem

Gaza has 1.5 million residents.

You're going to strip search all of them, and all their homes, and all their place of work, and run metal detectors over every empty field, etc?

Assuming that sort of search were even physically possible (it
isn't) *AND* you somehow managed to seize every weapon in Gaza (you can't) how are you going to prevent new ones from being smuggled in?

How are you going to prevent the Gazans from building rockets, given that said rockets are literally made in home garages from common PVC pipes, sugar, and fertilizer?

re: #159 faraway

Why doesn't Israel use the Hamas Charter against itself

Every that believes in peace, report to Sector X. Everyone that believes in the Hamas Charter, stay put and fight like a man.

Those who believe in the Hamas Charter will follow those who believe in peace into Sector X.

Then bitch and moan and those who believe in peace are killed.

re: #157 looking closely

Well, I agree that the Palestinians collectively bear responsibility for electing Hamas, but by this logic, you and I are both Democrats.

Don't forget, Hamas took control of Gaza in a violent coup. They're a bunch of thugs, and they control the place by force of arms and physical intimidation. I think a lot of Gazans would be quite happy to be rid of Hamas, but they don't really have the ability to do anything about it.

I agree with you that there are probably quite a number of Gazans who are very unhappy with Hamas but are being held hostage to its suicidal theology. The evidence of this is that when Hamas called for human shields to protect a Hamas thug's house, they didn't show up.

If you remember the movie Top Gun you certainly remember the scene where they were watching the film footage of attack planes in Vietnam. The one hotshot pilot said to the other:

"This is giving me a hard-on"

That's exactly how I feel watching this film :) -tm

re: #84 opnion

Its called paradise insurance. They believe that if you die as a "martyr" you get to name 70 people to join you in paradise. I can just see the conversation now:

Dad: "Son, I want you to go blow yourself up and take a couple of Joos with you. When you get to paradise, just remember the old man. Ok?"

Son: "Sounds like a plan Dad."

If they droped wp, on hamas, then "BLAMMO" no more hamas.

re: #157 looking closely

Don't forget, Hamas took control of Gaza in a violent coup. They're a bunch of thugs, and they control the place by force of arms and physical intimidation.

I tend to believe that a large percentage of gazan households have at least one weapon in them and if they truly wanted hamas gone it could be done.Hamas is there because the palestinians want them there.

re: #151 jwb7605

That was just barely better than the student who interviewed his Grandmother, a survivor of Auschwitz. The judges wouldn't accept his premise until he produced original (genuine 1940 era) photographs and letters from a scrapbook.
The title of that project was "Never Again". That was the hard part for the other two judges.

Eugenics they'd never heard of?

And they couldn't deal with a student interviewing a survivor? I don't know. I'm a dedicated liberal myself, but all that comes to my mind is that these are pretty sophisticated subjects for middle-school kids. Good on them.

Must be a long generation in that family somewhere. One of my high school kids lost his great-grandfather last year, and told me proudly that GG had been on Iwo Jima. I mentioned this to my father who looked shocked. "His GREAT-grandfather? You mean his grandfather."

Well, Dad, YOUR father was in the Pacific, that makes him my GRAND-father, and this boy's mom is about my age, because not everyone waits until they're thirty-four to get married, so yes, GREAT-grandfather.

I don't like scientology much but John Travolta's son died in an accident. I would not wish that on anyone.

re: #165 Tazzerman

If you remember the movie Top Gun you certainly remember the scene where they were watching the film footage of attack planes in Vietnam. The one hotshot pilot said to the other:

"This is giving me a hard-on"

That's exactly how I feel watching this film :) -tm

Too much information...
; )

re: #162 looking closely

Gaza has 1.5 million residents.

You're going to strip search all of them, and all their homes, and all their place of work, and run metal detectors over every empty field, etc?

Assuming that sort of search were even physically possible (it
isn't) *AND* you somehow managed to seize every weapon in Gaza (you can't) how are you going to prevent new ones from being smuggled in?

How are you going to prevent the Gazans from building rockets, given that said rockets are literally made in home garages from common PVC pipes, sugar, and fertilizer?

Of course Israel isn't going to be able to get every last weapon. However, Israel has now set a precedent for bombing smuggling tunnels along the border with Egypt, which is a good thing. If they try to rebuild the tunnels, Israel can send its planes over to blow them up again. As for the rockets made in home garages, sure they are a problem, but not as much of a problem as the sophisticated Iranian missiles being smuggled in that can reach Be'er Sheva and possibly Dimona and Tel Aviv.

re: #169 bulwrk

Don't forget, Hamas took control of Gaza in a violent coup. They're a bunch of thugs, and they control the place by force of arms and physical intimidation.

I tend to believe that a large percentage of gazan households have at least one weapon in them and if they truly wanted hamas gone it could be done.Hamas is there because the palestinians want them there.

[Link: www.honestreportingcanada.net...]

Excellent Video by the CBC (of all places) from back in September.

Clearly shows what these "Hamas Police" look like (they dont' look much like police to me), and gives a good understanding of the situation on the ground in Gaza.

I for one am very grateful Iraqis are stepping up to their plate & taking responsibility for the Green Zone which US/Coalition troops did until yesterday.

There is a rose in Iraqis' Green Zone!

May Hamas persons of good will throw off their Hamas oppressors.

re: #146 looking closely

This is fantasy tough-talk. .

So far, Israel has NOT proven resistant to pressure from the UN and others. I'm not sure what's changed now.

Assuming Israel does have the political wherewithall to do what you say (and I assure you, it doesn't), what the hell would Israel want with Gaza anyway? The place is a s@#thole. Annexing it would mean Israel would have to police it. Then EVERY problem in Gaza would be Israel's problem. Not worth it.

Encouraging the Gazans to leave sounds nice, but don't forget, there are 1.5 *million* of them, and most are dirt poor. Where are they going to go? Egypt won't have them, and neither will any other Arab nation.

we are suggesting radical changes for Gaza...it's been proven that they cannot rule themselves...the UN is an enemy to Israel...Fatah is a terrorist group no less than Hamas...the population is not beyond manageable or the area...Israel has made pizza pie out of horseshit before...there is nobody else to take over that wil ensure Israels security...they can colonize it and capitalize on it...do you have a better idea?....

What is really interesting about the IDF bombing all these places is that they know where everything is hidden.

re: #171 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

I don't like scientology much but John Travolta's son died in an accident. I would not wish that on anyone.

* * *
Rat packer Dean Martin's son was a pilot in the Reserves and died when his plane disappeared over California in 1987. (Read this in "The Reagan Diaries").

Bless our troops and all who serve their country.

re: #162 looking closely

Gaza has 1.5 million residents.

You're going to strip search all of them, and all their homes, and all their place of work, and run metal detectors over every empty field, etc?

Assuming that sort of search were even physically possible (it
isn't) *AND* you somehow managed to seize every weapon in Gaza (you can't) how are you going to prevent new ones from being smuggled in?

How are you going to prevent the Gazans from building rockets, given that said rockets are literally made in home garages from common PVC pipes, sugar, and fertilizer?

It was done in Iraq. Fallujah was the most violence prone area in Iraq.
Special ID's, finger printing... yep basically tear everything down, and only let the good guys stay. A similar program also met with success in the city of Ramadi.

Faluja

re: #176 albusteve

we are suggesting radical changes for Gaza...it's been proven that they cannot rule themselves...the UN is an enemy to Israel...Fatah is a terrorist group no less than Hamas...the population is not beyond manageable or the area...Israel has made pizza pie out of horseshit before...there is nobody else to take over that wil ensure Israels security...they can colonize it and capitalize on it...do you have a better idea?....

Excuse me for butting in, but it's just not going to happen. Israel has no intention of re-occupying, let alone re-colonizing, Gaza. The PA is actually cooperating with the Israelis w/re security in the WB and not letting Hamas take firm hold there. If the PA takes over in Gaza, there is no reason to believe it won't continue to cooperate with Israel to keep Hamas down. Who do you think is giving Israel all that excellent intelligence in Gaza?

re: #173 Amy

However, Israel has now set a precedent for bombing smuggling tunnels along the border with Egypt, which is a good thing. If they try to rebuild the tunnels, Israel can send its planes over to blow them up again.

That's not unprecedented. As you know, Israel has never had a problem destroying these tunnels before, and has done so many times in the past. The limiting factor isn't destroying them, its FINDING them. On the second point, its a given that the Gazans will rebuild these things. Smuggling is major industry in Gaza, and tunnels are a huge part of it.

As for the rockets made in home garages, sure they are a problem, but not as much of a problem as the sophisticated Iranian missiles being smuggled in that can reach Be'er Sheva and possibly Dimona and Tel Aviv.

No disagreement there. I think the biggest thrust of the current assault is to reduce Gaza's arsenal of these sorts of weapons.

re: #171 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

I don't like scientology much but John Travolta's son died in an accident. I would not wish that on anyone.

Same here and I am the father of a sixteen year old. It would break me to lose my son.

Took note of this at a blog I check in on occasionally. For some reason, it struck a nerve--maybe because I get told quite a lot of that Israel is 'racist'.

Israel will need to immobilize hostile crowds, possibly with explosive launched cargo nets from a fishing vessel. Every structure that stores weapons must be destroyed. Hopefully the UNRWA will be expelled from Gaza and the West bank. Of course the targeting of the mosques, schools and hospitals that Hamas uses to shield their operations will cause a panic. That response is more desired by then than the actually weapons, but only up to a point. Islam counts on a perceptual victory. It gains adherents because it claims to be "the strong horse." Proof of divine favor in Islam is based on the fact that their enemies surrendered during the first two centuries. If Israel does not stop, if the abuse of the mosques by Hamas is not only exposed as criminal but much more important exposed as ineffective, then Hamas will be humiliated. Once humiliated and exposed as losers the people will begin to reject it. They will scream and yell and complain, like an addict in withdrawal, up to the moment when they realize that you will not stop. Then they will simply move on to the next battle.

re: #162 looking closely

Gaza has 1.5 million residents.

You're going to strip search all of them, and all their homes, and all their place of work, and run metal detectors over every empty field, etc?

Assuming that sort of search were even physically possible (it
isn't) *AND* you somehow managed to seize every weapon in Gaza (you can't) how are you going to prevent new ones from being smuggled in?

How are you going to prevent the Gazans from building rockets, given that said rockets are literally made in home garages from common PVC pipes, sugar, and fertilizer?

yes yes and yes...it will take some time but it can be done...smuggling is probably the easiest part to deal with...call me naive...all you point out are serious problems but not insurmountable....the only thing preventing it from happening is will power or a big gang up on Israel fight....the biggest obstacle is the attitude of the Gazans themselves and if they dont comply they will simply have to go elsewhere

Those secondary explosions weren't weapons, they were fireworks and pinatas for little Ahmed's birthday party.
/

re: #134 SanFranciscoZionist

I would use published research on international arms trade and then correlate that data to where the wars and slaughters of the last 60 years have been. Basic military funding of units of any kind begins with the guns. The movie Lord of War had a great montage of the manufacture of an AK round and followed it right into the forehead of a boy in East Africa.

While Kalashnikov did not have much influence, his brainchild certainly did. The cheap, nearly indestructible gun was instrumental to US defeat in Vietnam and has fueled revolutions and destruction all over the world.

Good luck on the project.

re: #153 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

When I never again see pali men and women celebrating and giving out candy over senseless terror attacks which destroy innocent lives will I give a big shit about their suffering the consequences of their actions.

re: #186 albusteve

if they dont comply they will simply have to go elsewhere

I think that's how we got into this mess to begin with... ;)

I predict another stage of "shock and awe":

Israel goes ALL IN with EVERYTHING at her disposal and re-occupy Gaza and obliterate Hamas.

Anything less than that, Hamas can declare victory.

The only way for Israel to declare victory and to retain deterrence is to extinguish Hamas.

re: #162 looking closely

Gaza has 1.5 million residents.

You're going to strip search all of them, and all their homes, and all their place of work, and run metal detectors over every empty field, etc?

Assuming that sort of search were even physically possible (it
isn't) *AND* you somehow managed to seize every weapon in Gaza (you can't) how are you going to prevent new ones from being smuggled in?

How are you going to prevent the Gazans from building rockets, given that said rockets are literally made in home garages from common PVC pipes, sugar, and fertilizer?

False premise, the problem is not homemade weapons with a 2 mile range, the problem is professional weapons with a 20 mile range. Chinese design shipped from Iran.

Oh great, singer Annie Lennox is calling for Israel to stop the bombing.
Where was this idiot while Hamas and Hezbollah were bombing Israel.

re: #183 Steve

it is the unthinkable to anyone who ever held a child in their arms and watched the child grow with all their hopes

re: #191 broomer

I predict another stage of "shock and awe":

Israel goes ALL IN with EVERYTHING at her disposal and re-occupy Gaza and obliterate Hamas.

Anything less than that, Hamas can declare victory.

The only way for Israel to declare victory and to retain deterrence is to extinguish Hamas.

The problem is the next morning, though, isn't it? Now Israel is the occupier again, in a no-win situation. Who runs the place? If Iraq's got a rocky road to a functional democracy, Gaza has quicksand.

re: #193 Steve

Oh great, singer Annie Lennox is calling for Israel to stop the bombing.
Where was this idiot while Hamas and Hezbollah were bombing Israel.

* * *
Silly Wabbit! Like all her "progressive" cohorts, she was celebrating Shoe Throwers' assault on Infidel President Bush.

re: #176 albusteve

we are suggesting radical changes for Gaza...it's been proven that they cannot rule themselves...the UN is an enemy to Israel...Fatah is a terrorist group no less than Hamas...the population is not beyond manageable or the area...Israel has made pizza pie out of horseshit before...there is nobody else to take over that wil ensure Israels security...they can colonize it and capitalize on it...do you have a better idea?....

Honestly, I don't think Israel is politically/emotionally capable of doing what needs to be done to permanently get rid of Hamas at this time, no.

Israel isn't going to level Gaza, carpet bomb it, seize the entire place in an imperialist military invasion, expel everyone into Egypt, etc. Those are really non-starters.

The only strategy I could see that might work is a "scorched earth" type approach, where *ALL* Hamas members are targeted for death or capture, as are anyone helping them. Since Hamas will use human shields as much as it can, Israel also has to be willing to inflict significant "collateral damage" of non-participants including women and children. Futher, Israel has to be willing to absorb large numbers of its own casualties in the process of going door-to-door to clean out the place. Lastly, Israel would have to spend weeks (at least) doing this, in the face of ever-worsening international public opinion, something it has been proven to be susceptible to.

So, I don't really see this happening.

re: #194 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

Ditto. I heard that Trivolta's son had a seizure or hit his head in the bath tub. Could have been both.

re: #193 Steve

Annie who? Never heard of her, if I did, I'd boycott her and let her know it! Hit them in the pocketbook- that's the only thing these dumb libs understand.

re: #182 looking closely

That's not unprecedented. As you know, Israel has never had a problem destroying these tunnels before, and has done so many times in the past. The limiting factor isn't destroying them, its FINDING them. On the second point, its a given that the Gazans will rebuild these things. Smuggling is major industry in Gaza, and tunnels are a huge part of it.

Has Israel done so at the Rafah crossing on the border with Egypt (vs in the north on the border with Israel) before? I was not aware of that; I thought Israel did not want to step on Egypt's toes. I would think that Israel can send drones over to monitor and detect renewed activity in the area. After all, they have to dig them along the border for them to be of any use, and the border with Egypt is limited in length.

Maybe I'm too much of an optimist, but I think the Israelis can harass the tunnelers sufficiently (if Egypt continues to give them a free hand) to make tunneling an extremely hazardous activity.

re: #196 alegrias

She was joined by Mick and Bianca Jager(sp).

re: #199 LEGION

Annie who? Never heard of her, if I did, I'd boycott her and let her know it! Hit them in the pocketbook- that's the only thing these dumb libs understand.

* * *
Yes--To the dustbin of music history she goes.

re: #160 Joo-LiZ

I think you have the wrong guy.

If he means the creator of the AK-47, google "Mikhail Kalashnikov"

Lots of info on him.

I've been alive with the wrong information for 20 years and nobody told me?
Thanks! Links and info are going to the appropriate place.

... and he started selling Vodka in 2004!

re: #180 Buck

It was done in Iraq. Fallujah was the most violence prone area in Iraq.
Special ID's, finger printing... yep basically tear everything down, and only let the good guys stay. A similar program also met with success in the city of Ramadi.

Faluja

I prefer the 'Carthage' solution. Leave no two stones on top of each other and then salt the earth so nothing can grow there. Worked pretty effectively for the Romans. They didn't have to deal with Carthage anymore after that.
I know that in today's times that's not practical but the image sure as hell appeals to me......

re: #181 Amy

Excuse me for butting in, but it's just not going to happen. Israel has no intention of re-occupying, let alone re-colonizing, Gaza. The PA is actually cooperating with the Israelis w/re security in the WB and not letting Hamas take firm hold there. If the PA takes over in Gaza, there is no reason to believe it won't continue to cooperate with Israel to keep Hamas down. Who do you think is giving Israel all that excellent intelligence in Gaza?

there is no butting in with me...your are most likely right...Israel will swap Hamas for Fatah or the Pa or some combination...in the longest run what good will that do them?...what is the historic track record of those guys?....whatever happens with Gaza the Israelis must maintain absolute final control...at least for the forseeable future...is the PA gonna like that?...is the PA gonna control the borders?...is the PA gonna squash out Islamofascism, genocide and the rest?

re: #199 LEGION

Annie who? Never heard of her, if I did, I'd boycott her and let her know it! Hit them in the pocketbook- that's the only thing these dumb libs understand.

[Link: www.annielennox.com...]

Prep fire at it's best.

Get some IDF

re: #200 Amy

Has Israel done so at the Rafah crossing on the border with Egypt (vs in the north on the border with Israel) before? I was not aware of that; I thought Israel did not want to step on Egypt's toes. I would think that Israel can send drones over to monitor and detect renewed activity in the area. After all, they have to dig them along the border for them to be of any use, and the border with Egypt is limited in length.

Maybe I'm too much of an optimist, but I think the Israelis can harass the tunnelers sufficiently (if Egypt continues to give them a free hand) to make tunneling an extremely hazardous activity.

Israel originally kept control of the crossing and the Philadelphia strip to prevent just this problem, then Olmert (****) turned it over to the EU who promptly ran away when Hamas took power. Now Olmert is talking about repeating again, inserting foreign observers into Gaza where they would serve to shield Hamas from the Israelis.

re: #206 Steve

Ugh.

Why is there no international outrage against Hamas's misusing civilian facilities?

The injustice of the criticism levied at Israel is infuriating, and every fairness and justice-loving person should feel the same why. Sadly, there are some on the left who valued their prejudiced hatred more than justice.

re: #209 LEGION

Sorry about that. Should have put a warning up.

Everyone is making their moves now that Obama is taking over. Like Russia cutting off Ukraine's gas.

re: #205 albusteve

there is no butting in with me...your are most likely right...Israel will swap Hamas for Fatah or the Pa or some combination...in the longest run what good will that do them?...what is the historic track record of those guys?....whatever happens with Gaza the Israelis must maintain absolute final control...at least for the forseeable future...is the PA gonna like that?...is the PA gonna control the borders?...is the PA gonna squash out Islamofascism, genocide and the rest?

I think that the PA has learned its lesson with Hamas's coup and the murder and torture of Fatah members in Gaza. I think the PA realizes that if it wants to have and hold on to power, it has to be at Hamas's expense. I'm talking pure self-interest here. Of course Fatah are also a bunch of terrorists, too, but at least they are more pragmatic terrorists who are showing some degree of interest in having a state and building a viable economy. Hamas is not interested in any of that; its entire and only reason for existing is to destroy Israel.

re: #210 goddessoftheclassroom

Why is there no international outrage against Hamas's misusing civilian facilities?

Same reason like always.

How do you pray next to a bomb anyway? Unless, of course, you are trying to disarm it.

Do they pray like those mole people on that Planet of the Apes movie?

re: #210 goddessoftheclassroom

Why is there no international outrage against Hamas's misusing civilian facilities?

The injustice of the criticism levied at Israel is infuriating, and every fairness and justice-loving person should feel the same why. Sadly, there are some on the left who valued their prejudiced hatred more than justice.

I think there is a general unconscious (false) belief that Hamas does it because they have no choice.

They (falsely) think of Hamas installations as being inevitably next to civilians, because the Israeli's have laid seige to Gaza, and Gaza is just THAT small.

It is up to us, and any other supporters of Israel and civilization to declare loud and clear that Hamas war crimes are completely unacceptable.

re: #190 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that's how we got into this mess to begin with... ;)

I've said it since last week...Israel must drag Egypt, Jordan and the UN into this mess in terms of proactive aid for disenfranchised Gazans...Egypt has been well paid to lay low and now it's payback for them...if it's declared neither Jordan nor Egypt or any Arab nations will 'rescue' the Gazans the Israel is stuck with it and will feel free to deal with the situation however they pleas...at that point they will own the stri and everybody in it....most other posters wont agree but what else can be the fate of Gaza?...it's easy to say that never worked or we dont want them....time for a major paradigm shift

re: #189 Soona'

Hear, hear!

MY sympathy meter is stuck at zero since September 11, 2001.

Barbarians.

The ground war is coming and soon people.

Let me help explain why: yesterday, I was wrong (even Islamic scholars occaisionly get items wrong) in saying 500,000 Israelis are in Hamas rocket range, its a million.

Now, go stand in front of your home and ask how long you would be willing to be in rocket range of the humanitarians that run Hamas. Now imagine places near you are actually being rocketed. Are you going to call your government to make kumbaya with the genocidal war criminals firing ball bearing rockets in your direction or do you want the problem permanently dealt with?

Israeli civilians are paying the full price for not taking Hamas' arming itself seriously enough. Deterrence did not work with these freakzoids.

The IDF is going in and my understanding is the skies over Gaza are clearing, goodbye Hamas, I shan't miss you.

re: #33 rawmuse

Gee, why doesn't Hamas store their weapons in an armory, like civilized people would? Could it be that they actually need Israel to bomb the mosques for PR or propaganda purposes?

/

Your point is well taken - and the Ottoman Turks may have started this practice by storing gun powder and explosives in the Parthenon and Propylaea. In 1640 the Propylaea went boom followed by the Parthenon in 1687.

It would seem the same disregard and attitude is alive and well today within the radicalized Muslim community.

re: #204 LGoPs

I prefer the 'Carthage' solution. Leave no two stones on top of each other and then salt the earth so nothing can grow there. Worked pretty effectively for the Romans. They didn't have to deal with Carthage anymore after that.
I know that in today's times that's not practical but the image sure as hell appeals to me......

If I remember correctly, the Romans did something similar to Tyre: They tore down the buildings and threw them into the sea. Then they dug up the dirt and threw it into the sea so that now what was ancient Tyre is just bare exposed rock.

re: #208 lifeofthemind

Israel originally kept control of the crossing and the Philadelphia strip to prevent just this problem, then Olmert (****) turned it over to the EU who promptly ran away when Hamas took power. Now Olmert is talking about repeating again, inserting foreign observers into Gaza where they would serve to shield Hamas from the Israelis.

Right. I had forgotten about that. Well, Olmert is not going to be in power much longer, thank God. I hope that Bibi can pull it out; he's far from perfect, but he's much preferable to Kadima at this point.

re: #212 faraway

Everyone is making their moves now that Obama is taking over. Like Russia cutting off Ukraine's gas.

Everyone in the world knows the O is an empty suit. (Well, except for the doey-eyed lefists in this country)

re: #216 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How do you pray next to a bomb anyway? Unless, of course, you are trying to disarm it.

Bomb #20

Israel set to begin ground war against Hamas in Gaza

Israel is poised to launch a major ground offensive into Gaza tonight after allowing hundreds of foreigners living in the devastated territory to evacuate.

After a week of air strikes that have killed at least 420 Palestinians and left scores of buildings in rubble, the Israeli army was set to fling hundreds of troops and tanks into a blitz to stamp out Hamas’s military wing, The Times understands.

I hope Hamas doesn't have any of these.

/Israel got chewed up by them in Lebanon two years ago

re: #190 SanFranciscoZionist

I think that's how we got into this mess to begin with... ;)

Jews were kicked out from all over and welcomed into Israel. When the palis voluntarily left thinking they'd be back soon after the Jews were all slaughtered and then were stuck where they were, the countries where they ran to did not absorb/welcome them. They were used as pawns to spawn hate in filthy camps. They were unwanted by countries sharing their own religion. THAT'S how this mess began.

I just want to warn Israel that if the force of the explosion caused a Koran to fly into a toilet, there will be hell to pay.

re: #210 goddessoftheclassroom

Why is there no international outrage against Hamas's misusing civilian facilities?

The injustice of the criticism levied at Israel is infuriating, and every fairness and justice-loving person should feel the same why. Sadly, there are some on the left who valued their prejudiced hatred more than justice.

I agree.... I don't understand how the moonbats can get courts to listen to them regarding war crimes this and war crimes that... BUT we can't seem to find one lawyer to try and get these Hamas leaders tried for War Crimes.

re: #227 Killian Bundy

Israel set to begin ground war against Hamas in Gaza

I hope Hamas doesn't have any of these.

/Israel got chewed up by them in Lebanon two years ago

They got slowed down by them. The majority of tanks damaged by them were up and running in 24 hours, and only a few were permanently destroyed.

re: #212 faraway

Everyone is making their moves now that Obama is taking over. Like Russia cutting off Ukraine's gas.

Gun sales are WAY up since his bogus election, even the bo camp noticed it and pathetically sent out a reassuring statement saying gun rights would not be trampled. After which, sales went even HIGHER!

re: #229 opinionated

I just want to warn Israel that if the force of the explosion caused a Koran to fly into a toilet, there will be hell to pay.

I had to upding that.
Sage advice.

Good to see Israel doing what needs to be done. But the real answer is to take out the hive of terrorism Iran. Or they will be fighting wars like this over and over. I have been watching this same kind of scenario for 40 years. Blow them up they rebuild.

Inside the Hamas Mosque.

re: #232 LEGION

Gun sales are WAY up since his bogus election, even the bo camp noticed it and pathetically sent out a reassuring statement saying gun rights would not be trampled. After which, sales went even HIGHER!

Just try and find anyone selling 7.62x39 ammo. IF you find some it will cost you.

re: #213 Amy

I think that the PA has learned its lesson with Hamas's coup and the murder and torture of Fatah members in Gaza. I think the PA realizes that if it wants to have and hold on to power, it has to be at Hamas's expense. I'm talking pure self-interest here. Of course Fatah are also a bunch of terrorists, too, but at least they are more pragmatic terrorists who are showing some degree of interest in having a state and building a viable economy. Hamas is not interested in any of that; its entire and only reason for existing is to destroy Israel.

A thought here - Israel could "occupy" Gaza with the permission of Fatah to ensure the complete removal (as much as one can), of Hamas. To have an alliance between Fatah and Israel to render Hamas impotent in Gaza would be tremendous.

re: #230 Buck

Either no money in it or they are afraid if they do they'd have to hire someone to start their car every morning. I bet its the latter.

re: #224 Amy

Right. I had forgotten about that. Well, Olmert is not going to be in power much longer, thank God. I hope that Bibi can pull it out; he's far from perfect, but he's much preferable to Kadima at this point.

Israel can seal and control her borders easily...no tunnels, no weapons, no problem

re: #226 Dustyvet

Bomb #20

[Video]

Dark Star - let there be light

Now that's what I'm talkin' about!

The accuracy and effectiveness of the Israeli and the US air forces is astounding. Nothing in the world compares to them, and never before in history has there been such precision and destructive accuracy.

Are the any militaries in the world with as good a targetting and command-and-control system as the Israelis and the US? Who matches up?

Britain?
China?
Russia?
France?
...anybody?

re: #241 ploome hineni

Just sayin'.

re: #227 Killian Bundy

the devastated territory

Note, now the West Bank is the "occupied" territory and Gaza is the "devastated" territory?

Dumb and dumber:
George Clooney is dating Paris Hilton!

I'm just guessing that from time to time he needs to place a decorous female on his arm for PR purposes.

re: #237 summergurl

A thought here - Israel could "occupy" Gaza with the permission of Fatah to ensure the complete removal (as much as one can), of Hamas. To have an alliance between Fatah and Israel to render Hamas impotent in Gaza would be tremendous.

Fatah are terrorists...they already got creamed by Hamas two years ago....are you suggesting Israel sanction some revenge fatwa between the two?...I find that pretty distaseful....Israel neednt take marching orders from anyone...especially Fatah

re: #243 zombie

The accuracy and effectiveness of the Israeli and the US air forces is astounding. Nothing in the world compares to them, and never before in history has there been such precision and destructive accuracy.

Are the any militaries in the world with as good a targetting and command-and-control system as the Israelis and the US? Who matches up?

Britain?
China?
Russia?
France?
...anybody?

And has there EVER been such forces who take such extraordinary care to minimize civilian causalities, even at greater risk to their own troops and objectives?

re: #222 Bobibutu

Your point is well taken - and the Ottoman Turks may have started this practice by storing gun powder and explosives in the Parthenon and Propylaea. In 1640 the Propylaea went boom followed by the Parthenon in 1687.

I'm not sure about the Propylaea, but the Parthenon was in quite good shape and had been used as a Christian church dedicated to St. Mary the Theotokos for a few centuries before the Turks requisitioned it as an armory.

re: #232 LEGION

Gun sales are WAY up since his bogus election, even the bo camp noticed it and pathetically sent out a reassuring statement saying gun rights would not be trampled. After which, sales went even HIGHER!

I just checked ammo prices today. They're going higher and higher as well. In all my life (today is my 60th b'day) I never imagined that my Constitution would be so ravaged as I'm sure it soon will be.

re: #247 mean Gene

Dumb and dumber:
George Clooney is dating Paris Hilton!

I'm just guessing that from time to time he needs to place a decorous female on his arm for PR purposes.

With respect, I think you mean "decorative." I don't think anyone would consider Ms. Hilton "decorous."

quick - we must send them prayer rugs!

/

re: #247 mean Gene

Dumb and dumber:
George Clooney is dating Paris Hilton!

I'm just guessing that from time to time he needs to place a decorous female on his arm for PR purposes.

He's old enough to be her father!

re: #246 ploome hineni

:D

That's the "Jolsen" smiley face.

RACIST!

re: #254 Dianna

Lord, pleeeeeeze don't let them breed.......

This may sound naive, but where is the pressure on Eygpt to shut the smuggling tunnels from their side? They seem not at all happy to have Iranian tools on thier border. Since the smuggling of weapons comes through the tunnels, I would think serious pressure on Egypt might have some effect.

re: #223 David IV of Georgia

If I remember correctly, the Romans did something similar to Tyre: They tore down the buildings and threw them into the sea. Then they dug up the dirt and threw it into the sea so that now what was ancient Tyre is just bare exposed rock.

Gotta give it to the Roman Army in war - they had their sh*t together in strategy and tatics - and when they took care of business - that's just what they did without being distracted.

re: #249 goddessoftheclassroom

And has there EVER been such forces who take such extraordinary care to minimize civilian causalities, even at greater risk to their own troops and objectives?

hail to the techno geeks!...bless em all

re: #247 mean Gene