IDF Invasion of Gaza Imminent?

Middle East • Views: 1,786

The IDF may be about to launch that ground invasion of Gaza: IDF begins shelling northern Gaza for 1st time since op began.

For the first time since the start of Operation Cast Lead, the IDF began firing artillery shells into northern Gaza on Saturday afternoon, IDF officials said.

According to reports, the artillery units were attacking targets in northern Gaza from where Palestinian terrorists had been firing rockets at southern Israel. The shelling was seen as a possible signal that a ground invasion could be nearing.

Warplanes, gunboats and artillery units blasted more than 40 Hamas targets throughout Saturday, including weapons storage facilities, training centers and Hamas leaders’ homes.

Air strikes that had waned during the day gathered pace after dark. One raid hit a mosque in the northern Gaza town of Beit Lahiya, killing 10 people and wounding 33, seven critically, according to a Palestinian health official. Other Palestinian reports said that the mosque was hit by an artillery shell.

The IAF also hit a mosque in northern Gaza and the home of senior Hamas commander Abu Zacharia Al-Jamal. A Hamas spokesman announced that al-Jamal was killed in the attack, which would make him the third senior operative in the group to be targeted in the past three days.

Fox News is reporting that Israeli tanks are repositioning around the Gaza border.

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598 comments
1 Sharmuta  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:02:25am

Go IDF!

2 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:02:55am

Let's roll!

3 Nevergiveup  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:03:27am

Do you think Israel gives Fox better access than others since they tend to be on our side?

4 jcm  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:03:42am

Rock Hamas' world!

5 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:03:47am

I hate war. But I hate terrorism more.

6 quickjustice  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:04:10am

A New Year's blast! ;-)

7 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:05:03am
8 Broomer  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:05:09am

What do you use to follow Twitter? For example can someone decipher this: [Link: twitter.com...] Keyword #Gazawar ?

9 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:06:02am

re: #7 holyzodiac

You don't know the rules, do you...

"Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal."

Charles, cleanup.

10 reggie  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:06:39am

May god protect IDF troops, and any innocent Gazans that sincerely tried to oust Hamas and now find themselves to be propaganda tools.

11 clgood  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:06:39am

If Israel moves on Hamas, I hope it's decisive. If they go in, they need to finish the job.

12 theadmiral  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:07:02am

Light'em up IDF! No repeat of 2006.

Finish.The.Job.

13 Erik The Red  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:08:14am

re: #7 holyzodiac

First part OK. Second part NOT COOL.

14 clgood  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:08:54am

re: #8 Broomer

Just sign up on twitter.com (it's free). Once you have an account, you can follow that link and you'll find a "Follow" button. Click it and you'll see updates from that user any time you refresh your Twitter page. You can also set it up to have the "tweets" go to your mobile device if you so choose.

15 itellu3times  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:09:27am

Sounds like a feint to pull whatever heavy forces Hamas may have out of the woodwork, what can Hamas do but respond?

Still haven't heard what the tanks or troops would *do* inside of Gaza.

16 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:09:35am

General note to all new Lizards.

Where as there is a lot of support for Israel and the IDF, Charles doesn't not like Lizards calling for the death of anyone.

"Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal."

Please make note of that.

17 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:10:19am

Moving armor at the border... firing field artillery. Too expensive for shits and giggles.

It's go time.

Godspeed IDF.

18 red satellite  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:10:25am
One raid hit a mosque in the northern Gaza town of Beit Lahiya, killing 10 people and wounding 33, seven critically, according to a Palestinian health official.

Health Official? Hmmm...must be another name for MORTICIAN.

19 angst  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:10:31am

re: #3 Nevergiveup

Do you think Israel gives Fox better access than others since they tend to be on our side?

I think the others just don't want to report anything from Israel's point of view.

20 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:10:49am

re: #13 Erik The Red

Gone! Comment and him!

21 yma o hyd  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:10:53am

Re-posting from the thread below:

I'd say that if the IDF really are going in right now, we'll not be getting anything, nor will we be getting stuff from the bloggers.

I'd expect a total news blackout, for the time being.

Remember the use the Mumbai terrorists made of cellphones and internet.
I'm sure the IDF would not want to alert the hamassholes to whatever they're planning and doing.

22 Sizzlack  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:11:08am

Alright... Go kick some Hamass!

23 6pat6  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:11:47am

Glad to see the IDF getting in there! Let's see if the "rest of the world" jumps in there to help the "po' wittle helpwess Palwistinians" and see if Egypt and Jordan open their borders to what is THEIR people, or if it's all more BS from the "world community".

There is NO "Palistine"!

24 Nevergiveup  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:11:53am

re: #19 angst

I think the others just don't want to report anything from Israel's point of view.

I know all my friend's and family in Israel appreciate FOX.

25 jcm  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:12:10am

re: #20 Walter L. Newton

Gone! Comment and him!

Gotta' be a record 0 comments, and -5 Karma!

26 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:12:26am
Fox News is reporting that Israeli tanks are repositioning around the Gaza border.

At 8:12:47 am FOX flak jacket boy reported that he saw IDF vehicles crossing into Gaza in force.

Whatever, expect many hours of disinformation.

/if this is a ruse, it's a really stupid ruse that serves no purpose whatsoever

27 notutopia  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:12:26am

It is inevitable. But, if you listen to the MSM, you'd wonder if the ground forces are even capable of moving into Gaza.....
putzes!
*spit*

28 6pat6  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:12:58am

IDF - Go stomp their Ham-asses!

29 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:13:02am

re: #21 yma o hyd

Re-posting from the thread below:

I'd say that if the IDF really are going in right now, we'll not be getting anything, nor will we be getting stuff from the bloggers.

I'd expect a total news blackout, for the time being.

Remember the use the Mumbai terrorists made of cellphones and internet.
I'm sure the IDF would not want to alert the hamassholes to whatever they're planning and doing.

But Al-Jazeera and the BBC both have active offices in the Gaza strip, and they are reporting away this morning. So, it's not a news blackout, no matter if the IDF wants one or not.

Of course, it's not going to be fair reporting from those two groups.

30 nyc redneck  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:13:24am

they brought it on themselves.
w/ their incessant hatred and commitment to terrorism.
here's hoping israel crushes these savages.
and ends their evil ways for good.

31 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:14:03am

re: #25 jcm

Gotta' be a record 0 comments, and -5 Karma!

So evidently a Moby, Troll, what ever, waiting to drop a "bomb" like that.

32 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:14:24am

Ynet and jpost have better news.

[Link: www.ynetnews.com...]

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Hamas has to cry uncle and if Israel continues as it is, eventually it will.
Israel is beginning the ground invasion (or so it would seem). The idea is to surprise them as was the air offensive and get them to stop sending rockets into Israel. Put the fear of Israel's military might back into them. Israel doesn't want to conquer them, nor really kill them, but unfortunately that's what will happen. I have 3 cousins in the IDF and I fear for them.

Anyway, I suspect it to continue until Hamas surrenders and that Israel has the heart to get them to that point.

A deterrence works in a lot of ways. It puts the skids on the Hizzy too.

33 yma o hyd  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:14:48am

re: #26 Killian Bundy

At 8:12:47 am FOX flak jacket boy reported that he saw IDF vehicles crossing into Gaza in force.

Whatever, expect many hours of disinformation.

/if this is a ruse, it's a really stupid ruse that serves no purpose whatsoever

Heh.
It serves at least to enhance the 'standing' of that FOX boy in the eyes of certain ME nations and organisations not known for their amiable intentions towards Israel!

34 opinionated  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:15:06am

Everyone preparing.

The IDF readying their equipment to move forward.

Hamas readying their children to sacrifice for propaganda purposes.

35 Boogberg  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:15:24am

It's not a video game, folks. Just sayin'.

36 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:16:25am

BBC reporter says bombing of pick up trucks with "missiles" were really oxygen tanks...

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Pay close attention to the tag at the end of the article. Some one questions his reporting and the reporter never answers the comment.

37 Erik The Red  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:16:39am

re: #31 Walter L. Newton

So evidently a Moby, Troll, what ever, waiting to drop a "bomb" like that.

First comment newbie. Maybe he has not read the rules? But I lurked here long enough so there should be NO excuse for his/her first comment.

38 yma o hyd  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:16:50am

re: #29 Walter L. Newton

But Al-Jazeera and the BBC both have active offices in the Gaza strip, and they are reporting away this morning. So, it's not a news blackout, no matter if the IDF wants one or not.

Of course, it's not going to be fair reporting from those two groups.

It'll never be fair reporting from that lot!

However, I would doubt if they can see much right now - it is dark now in Israel and Gaza - and unless the IDF tanks are right on top of them, all they can do is speculate and regurgitate the hysteric tales of hamassholes.

39 notutopia  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:16:59am

re: #31 Walter L. Newton

So evidently a Moby, Troll, what ever, waiting to drop a "bomb" like that.

Yep. And squashed like the bug it was.
Number 7 comment was not a lucky number for him today...

40 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:18:02am

re: #35 Boogberg

It's not a video game, folks. Just sayin'.

I'm sure the residents on the Israeli side of the border who have been enduring daily indiscrimenant shelling from Hamas for months are aware of this!

41 6pat6  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:18:14am

Hopefully, Israel does not cave in to the hand-wringers and worrywarts in the "world community" ( I hate that term!), and finish the ass-stomping that should've been finished up in '06! The only thing terrorists recognize is strength. The stronger the IDF response is and the more Hamas idiots meet their moon-god, the more likely peace might actually result.

Notice, after the '67 war, Israel was not fuc*ed with for a bit, because their neighbors decided (wisely) to stop before they were completely annihilated!

42 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:18:18am
43 Nevergiveup  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:18:38am

re: #39 notutopia

Yep. And squashed like the bug it was.
Number 7 comment was not a lucky number for him today...

The mick deserved better!

44 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:18:49am

Ground operations until 1.20.09.

Watch what Iran does at 12pm EST 1.20.09.

45 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:19:39am
46 jcm  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:19:43am

OT but somehow relevant.

BLESSED is the MATCH
the life and death of hannah senesh

Safe in Palestine in 1944, Hannah joined a mission to rescue Jews in her native Hungary. Shockingly, it was the only military rescue mission for Jews during the Holocaust. Hannah parachuted behind enemy lines, was captured, tortured and ultimately executed by the Nazis. Incredibly, her mother Catherine witnessed the entire ordeal - first as a prisoner with Hannah and later as her advocate, braving the bombed-out streets of Budapest in a desperate attempt to save her daughter.

With unprecedented access to the Senesh family archive, and through interviews, eyewitness accounts and the prolific writings of Hannah and Catherine Senesh, Blessed Is the Match recreates Hannah's mission and imprisonment. The film explores Hannah's childhood against the backdrop of significant historical events resulting in a rich portrait with several interlocking strands.

47 solomonpanting  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:20:24am

re: #19 angst

I think the others just don't want to report anything from Israel's point of view.

I sure wouldn't want to be in a position to see what's happening from a Hamas POV at this time.

48 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:20:32am

re: #34 opinionated

Everyone preparing.

The IDF readying their equipment to move forward.

Hamas readying their children to sacrifice for propaganda purposes.

/after a certain point excessive "readying" defeats the element of surprise and costs lives

49 Opinionated  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:20:39am

Meanwhile Obama who comments on everything- and had today a Saturday address- says nothing.

Isn't that odd?

50 Fearless Fred  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:20:55am

re: #27 notutopia

It is inevitable. But, if you listen to the MSM, you'd wonder if the ground forces are even capable of moving into Gaza.....
putzes!
*spit*

MSM keeps telling me "Bush says Israel does have the right to defend itself".
What type BS is that? I really don't get their agenda with that retarded statement. Why would anyone question whether they have the right?

51 jcm  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:21:25am

re: #48 Killian Bundy

/after a certain point excessive "readying" defeats the element of surprise and costs lives

And give Hamas more time to stage another Sana photo op for the world.

52 6pat6  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:21:39am

re: #49 Opinionated

No, not odd. He doesn't want to appear to "take sides".

53 opnion  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:21:43am

Israeli soldiers have to do whatever they have to do to avoid capture.
I am sure that hostages wii experience a horror movie.

54 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:21:49am

re: #49 Opinionated

Meanwhile Obama who comments on everything- and had today a Saturday address- says nothing.

Isn't that odd?

No... he doesn't want to let on what he'll do.

/and he's busy trying to figure out what that might be.

55 What, me worry?  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:21:49am

re: #42 Banner

They don't want Gaza and they don't want to rule them. And they certainly won't be "wiping them out". Who would want to put up with them anyway? That's why they left Gaza in the first place. They just want them to live Israel alone. And let them know what it means by "enough is enough."

56 Nevergiveup  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:21:54am

re: #49 Opinionated

Meanwhile Obama who comments on everything- and had today a Saturday address- says nothing.

Isn't that odd?

He doesn't know dick about the Middle East, and his advisers might still be on vacation.

57 yma o hyd  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:22:01am

re: #36 Walter L. Newton

BBC reporter says bombing of pick up trucks with "missiles" were really oxygen tanks...

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Pay close attention to the tag at the end of the article. Some one questions his reporting and the reporter never answers the comment.

And in stark contrast, look at the report from Sri Lanka.

Has the UNSC been called, to work for an immediate cease-fire?
Were there any world-wide demonstrations against the Sri Lankan government, and for the 'brave' Tamil Freedom fighters?
After all - the principle on which the Tamil Tigers operate is the same as for Hamas ...

Bias? What bias!
Anti-semitism? What anti-semitism ...

58 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:22:08am

re: #35 Boogberg

It's not a video game, folks. Just sayin'.

/it's not anything unless someone engages the enemy

59 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:22:37am
60 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:22:39am

Lizardim -

For all intents and purposes - Israel has about two weeks to finish this job - AND will be without friends in the US Government for the next Four Years. Do what must be done - QUICKLY!

-S-

61 yma o hyd  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:23:09am

re: #37 Erik The Red

First comment newbie. Maybe he has not read the rules? But I lurked here long enough so there should be NO excuse for his/her first comment.

Stupidity also is no excuse - or so my teachers told me in school.

62 notutopia  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:23:49am

re: #50 Fearless Fred

MSM keeps telling me "Bush says Israel does have the right to defend itself".
What type BS is that? I really don't get their agenda with that retarded statement. Why would anyone question whether they have the right?


Throw away your TV! Use it for a boat anchor. I would say donate it or give it away to someone else, but, it would only be spreading the MSM cancer to another....

63 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:23:54am

re: #51 jcm

And give Hamas more time to stage another Sana photo op for the world.

/we can only hope lead elements are already across and exploiting

64 ruexperienced  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:24:08am

Meanwhile, over on CNN, it's all Palestinian victimhood and nothing about the secondary explos from all that baby milk they were storing up on for the long, mosque winter...

Grrrrrrrrrr...

65 sneezey  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:24:19am

Does anyone have a link to the article Charles posted in 2007 which discussed a poll taken of American Muslims where many felt Muslims were either partly or completely not responsible for 9/11?

66 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:24:31am

Methinks we are about to find out just how much GWB was holding back a dangerous world.

/not that the NYT will notice.

67 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:24:49am

re: #49 Opinionated

Meanwhile Obama who comments on everything- and had today a Saturday address- says nothing.

Isn't that odd?

Hey Obama, how's that policy of 'being everything to everyone' workin out for ya?

Still struggling with which side to pick? Let us know when you finally decide.

68 rwmofo  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:25:04am

I think that the Israelis ought to negotiate - right after Hamas surrenders unconditionally.

69 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:25:43am
70 Opinionated  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:25:49am

re: #52 6pat6

No, not odd. He doesn't want to appear to "take sides".

Right. The cowards way.

But Obama is supposed to be a Superhero and Superheros can tell the good guys from the bad guys.

Obama's silence speaks volumes.

71 yma o hyd  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:25:51am

re: #49 Opinionated

Meanwhile Obama who comments on everything- and had today a Saturday address- says nothing.

Isn't that odd?

Aww - is he scared of saying something wrong, perhaps?

//

72 Maximu§  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:26:00am

Good Hunting to the IDF's.

73 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:26:08am

re: #42 Banner

Your comment stinks. "Wipe them all out" is not the answer nor the way civilized people wage a battle.

74 strangelove  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:26:11am

Ask yourself (and any anti-Israel person) one simple question:

If the Palestinian leadership were to publicly declare in English and Arabic...a unilateral permanent cease-fire and that no attacks of any kind will be tolerated from their side, what would Israel's response be?

Because when Israel declared a unilateral withdrawal from the west bank, Hamas launched rocket attacks within 2 hours, as Ariel Sharon predicted.

75 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:26:19am

re: #37 Erik The Red

I missed the comment, and don't miss missing it. If it was so horrible it got deleted that quickly, and if it is how he/she really felt, than he/she would have been gone sooner or later.

76 slokat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:26:21am

Juxtaposed News

Jerusalem Post

Arab News

77 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:26:23am

Prayers for Israel.

-Oh no...Sand People!-

78 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:26:48am
79 jcm  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:26:49am

re: #66 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Methinks we are about to find out just how much GWB was holding back a dangerous world.

/not that the NYT will notice.

If anyone had said on 9/12/01 there would not be any further attacks on the US through 2008 we all would have laughed.

That is a the measure of GWB presidency.

He kept this country safe from attack.

80 rwmofo  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:27:05am

re: #64 ruexperienced

Meanwhile, over on CNN, it's all Palestinian victimhood and nothing about the secondary explos from all that baby milk they were storing up on for the long, mosque winter...

Grrrrrrrrrr...

Hmmm. My kids are grown now, but I sure am glad that their "baby milk" never exploded. Being a parent is tough.

OTOH, my older one almost made my head explode a time or two.

81 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:27:23am

re: #68 rwmofo

I think that the Israelis ought to negotiate - right after Hamas surrenders unconditionally with a property developement firm to make the Gaza strip what it should have been all along. A 5 star beach resort! .

Hey ,,,, once you get the land, ya might as well make a profit off of it !

82 6pat6  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:27:26am

BHO's foreign policy machine must be sputtering and stalling, knowing it can't do shit to install themselves full into Israel's business yet. And BHO isn't going to say shit about it yet, because he doesn't know a damn thing about the ME...just like Carter.

83 unclassifiable  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:27:47am

There are a lot of well wishers on this thread but...

... it disturbs me that our government has seen fit to similarly play armchair quarterback for Israel's security and general cooperation in ME affairs. How may times have we been "careful" in making sure we did not base operations in Israel or that Israel did not receive "undue" support from us or any freedom-loving nation for that matter?

Make no mistake. Hamas was elected but they would be more than happy to make this the last election in Gaza. They want to be the new Taliban and they want Israel to be their first conquest.

84 Boogberg  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:27:48am

re: #69 Banner

Here we go again.

85 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:27:53am
86 6pat6  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:28:05am

re: #70 Opinionated

Maybe my sarcasm was not evident in my comment.

87 Ay, Caramba  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:28:34am

HOPE, CHANGE, Blah, Blah, Blah

88 rightymouse  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:28:36am

May G-D watch over Israel and the IDF while they go kick terrorist butts.

89 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:29:14am

re: #79 jcm

If anyone had said on 9/12/01 there would not be any further attacks on the US through 2008 we all would have laughed.

That is a the measure of GWB presidency.

He kept this country safe from attack.

And the tryannies the world over are rubbing their hands with glee at the chance to move without worry about interference from the US.

90 Banner  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:29:23am

re: #73 Walter L. Newton

Your comment stinks. "Wipe them all out" is not the answer nor the way civilized people wage a battle.

Excuse me? Being civilized means you get rid of evil, and you get rid of barbarians. You don't keep letting them kill your people again and again. It means you win, and you do whatever you must to protect civilization.

Being civilized does not mean being a bunch of wimps.

91 Nevergiveup  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:29:29am

re: #83 unclassifiable

There are a lot of well wishers on this thread but...

... it disturbs me that our government has seen fit to similarly play armchair quarterback for Israel's security and general cooperation in ME affairs. How may times have we been "careful" in making sure we did not base operations in Israel or that Israel did not receive "undue" support from us or any freedom-loving nation for that matter?

Make no mistake. Hamas was elected but they would be more than happy to make this the last election in Gaza. They want to be the new Taliban and they want Israel to be their first conquest.

We base more in Israel than is announced publicly. For the last 8 years President Bush has been a pretty stalwart supporter of Israel.

92 rwmofo  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:30:11am

re: #81 sattv4u2

Hey ,,,, once you get the land, ya might as well make a profit off of it !

From one greedy capitalist to another, I'll drink to that. Wait, it's only 11:30 here. Oh well, I have something to look forward to today.

93 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:30:38am

re: #90 Banner

Excuse me? Being civilized means you get rid of evil, and you get rid of barbarians. You don't keep letting them kill your people again and again. It means you win, and you do whatever you must to protect civilization.

Being civilized does not mean being a bunch of wimps.

So in your scenario, there would be no Germans or Japanese left in the world post WW 2!

94 Maximu§  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:30:49am

re: #90 Banner

Excuse me? Being civilized means you get rid of evil, and you get rid of barbarians. You don't keep letting them kill your people again and again. It means you win, and you do whatever you must to protect civilization.

Being civilized does not mean being a bunch of wimps.

Than head out to your local Army recruiter today.....I want to see you in full combat gear in 4 months ready to fight "evil".

95 itellu3times  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:30:50am

Suggestion I heard yesterday, was that Israel will briefly reoccupy Gaza and turn the whole thing over to some "international" authority.

Wadday'all think of that?

96 Opinionated  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:30:53am

re: #74 strangelove

Ask yourself (and any anti-Israel person) one simple question:

If the Palestinian leadership were to publicly declare in English and Arabic...a unilateral permanent cease-fire and that no attacks of any kind will be tolerated from their side, what would Israel's response be?

You can ask a more simple and fundamentally question.

What would happen to all the Arabs if they completely disarmed?

What would happen to all the Jewish Israelis if they completely disarmed.

97 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:31:05am

re: #92 rwmofo

From one greedy capitalist to another, I'll drink to that. Wait, it's only 11:30 here. Oh well, I have something to look forward to today.

It's after noon here. Have a drink on me !

98 yma o hyd  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:31:09am

Here is something from Carl in Jerusalem ...

99 Fearless Fred  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:31:11am

re: #62 notutopia

Throw away your TV! Use it for a boat anchor. I would say donate it or give it away to someone else, but, it would only be spreading the MSM cancer to another....

Haven't had tv now for many years. It's this damned retarded bleeping radio ... every station! Even the FOX news here on KLBJ 590 AM ... it's completely ridiculous (to me anyway). Why do they endlessly tell me Israel has some 'right'. OF COURSE THEY DO!

100 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:31:17am

re: #62 notutopia

Throw away your TV! Use it for a boat anchor. I would say donate it or give it away to someone else, but, it would only be spreading the MSM cancer to another....

yup

101 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:31:22am
102 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:31:29am
103 ryannon  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:31:42am

re: #95 itellu3times

Suggestion I heard yesterday, was that Israel will briefly reoccupy Gaza and turn the whole thing over to some "international" authority.

Wadday'all think of that?


Like Iran?

104 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:31:46am
105 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:31:53am

re: #95 itellu3times

Suggestion I heard yesterday, was that Israel will briefly reoccupy Gaza and turn the whole thing over to some "international" authority.

Wadday'all think of that?

if by "international" they mean some UN agency ,,, FEH!

106 Opinionated  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:32:17am

re: #71 yma o hyd

Aww - is he scared of saying something wrong, perhaps?

//

Easy solution. Let him say something right.

107 Nevergiveup  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:32:29am

re: #95 itellu3times

Suggestion I heard yesterday, was that Israel will briefly reoccupy Gaza and turn the whole thing over to some "international" authority.

Wadday'all think of that?

They don't want to rule over Gaza for even a minute. problem is neither does anyone else with half a mind.

108 Erik The Red  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:32:53am

re: #85 Banner

Be careful Banner. We all have strong feeling and support for Israel. But don't start advocating killing people here. It will get you BANNED.

109 Sol Roth  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:33:08am

Anybody else get the "working" circle that hangs forever when they click on avatars, comment count or dings?

I'm using Safari 3.2.1 and it's been going on for about a week now.

110 Maximu§  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:33:41am

re: #108 Erik The Red

Be careful Banner. We all have strong feeling and support for Israel. But don't start advocating killing people here. It will get you BANNED.

Hence the name Banner.

111 Nevergiveup  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:33:41am

re: #105 sattv4u2

if by "international" they mean some UN agency ,,, FEH!

Well "fuck that" comes to my mind, but I guess feh works also.

112 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:33:41am

re: #108 Erik The Red

Be careful Banner. We all have strong feeling and support for Israel. But don't start advocating killing people here. It will get you BANNED.

That's what I was implying to him, but he doesn't seem to get the message.

113 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:33:42am
114 6pat6  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:33:49am

re: #107 Nevergiveup

Suggestion I heard yesterday, was that Israel will briefly reoccupy Gaza and turn the whole thing over to some "international" authority.

Wadday'all think of that?

They don't want to rule over Gaza for even a minute. problem is neither does anyone else with half a mind.

Oh, I'm sure the UN will be all over that, and add Gaza to their list of "successes" that they are so famous for!

/do I really HAVE to?

115 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:33:52am

re: #107 Nevergiveup

They don't want to rule over Gaza for even a minute. problem is neither does anyone else with half a mind.

BINGO ,,,, send in Blagojevich to govern!

(beats the taxpayers footing a 50K + a year bill to incarcerate him)

116 Fearless Fred  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:33:58am

re: #68 rwmofo

I think that the Israelis ought to negotiate - right after Hamas surrenders unconditionally.

Is there anything else that would make sense?

117 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:33:59am
118 Nevergiveup  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:34:27am

re: #112 Walter L. Newton

That's what I was implying to him, but he doesn't seem to get the message.

He will or he will get something else.

119 unclassifiable  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:34:36am

re: #95 itellu3times

Suggestion I heard yesterday, was that Israel will briefly reoccupy Gaza and turn the whole thing over to some "international" authority.

Wadday'all think of that?

It's the best of several really crappy alternatives. Unfortunately they will need personnel for their northern border so that move may free some forces up.

It's a crap sandwich.

120 Luigi  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:34:39am

Thousands of Shoes Appear on Miami Freeway
Mystery: Who dumped thousands of old shoes on Miami highway?
[Link: news.google.com...]

Mystery solved:
Thousands march over Gaza strikes

Up to 12,000 demonstrators took to the streets in London, hurling shoes at the gates of Downing Street in protest.

121 Banner  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:34:43am

re: #94 Maximu§

Than head out to your local Army recruiter today.....I want to see you in full combat gear in 4 months ready to fight "evil".

I'm a veteran, but if they'd take me back at my age, I'd go. I have no qualms about fighting for my country.

122 michael78244  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:34:46am

re: #79 jcm

If anyone had said on 9/12/01 there would not be any further attacks ...

That is a the measure of GWB presidency.

He kept this country safe from attack.

It wasn't for lack of trying. There were several attacks that were planned and foiled due to outstanding surveillance in the "domestic spying" program. I hope it continues in the next regime, but I'm skeptical.

123 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:34:47am

re: #95 itellu3times

Suggestion I heard yesterday, was that Israel will briefly reoccupy Gaza and turn the whole thing over to some "international" authority.

Wadday'all think of that?

not much...I'm with the school that that says occupation...at least for a coupla years

124 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:35:19am

re: #69 Banner

Are you nuts?

125 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:35:38am
126 ROP?LOL  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:36:09am

re: #73 Walter L. Newton

Your comment stinks. "Wipe them all out" is not the answer nor the way civilized people wage a battle.

Hamas was elected by the Egypto-Jordanians that occupy Gaza. They all share responsibility, and should all be dealt with.

127 Venflon  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:36:10am

According to local news services, hamas has built some sort of line of bunkers, trenches, tunnels(Vietnam style) along the gaza strip border, 3 km inside.
Apparently the artillery being fired at the open areas is meant to soften up that defensive line.

Personally I'm not that eager for an entry, unlike the initial airstrikes that were a total surprise in their timing, the IDF is not capable of doing a surprise ground attack at this time, as everyone is expecting it. (The Politicians to blame for the delay with the entry.)
Thus, hamas has a plan/strategy in place, as primitive as it may be, to counter it. in the past, they have planted explosive charges UNDER the road itself and then coated it back up with asphalt for remote detonation when/if IDF forces pass over it. So we can expect them to have those in place at this time as well... Along with other surprises.

This is where the main advantage hamas has over the IDF comes into play: Hamas has a very high tolerance rate for casualties on their side, as witnessed last week. A win scenario in their perspective has no relation to the number of people they may have lost.

On the contrary, IDF win/lose perspective is all about the number of soldiers lost in the offensive, more so than objectives achieved, due to immense public pressure.
Obviously, a ground entry increases the risk of that happening.
Currently, only the most liberal left (and Israeli arabs) are against the operation in Gaza, with every casualty, the number of objectors increases, creating pressure on the government to end it already...

As said above.. I'm not that eager for this to unfold.

128 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:36:21am

re: #117 Killian Bundy

/c'mon, you've got one comment left, if you hurry, make it memorable

LOL ,,, go out with a BOOOOMMMM,, not a whimper!

129 Banner  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:36:28am

re: #112 Walter L. Newton

That's what I was implying to him, but he doesn't seem to get the message.

? Okay, I get it, you're not supposed to talk about what actually goes on in a war. Excuse me, ex military and all that. I'll shut up now and not post on this again.

130 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:37:16am

Bunch of idiots outside City Hall protesting Israel. I'm sure 100 college dumbasses & aging hippies gathering in Philadelphia will stop the war! If I didn't have to work, I'd do some reporting from the protest.

131 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:37:29am

re: #90 Banner

Excuse me? Being civilized means you get rid of evil, and you get rid of barbarians. You don't keep letting them kill your people again and again. It means you win, and you do whatever you must to protect civilization.

Being civilized does not mean being a bunch of wimps.

/I'm amazed you were still able to post that, no way you get to 125

132 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:37:33am

re: #129 Banner

? Okay, I get it, you're not supposed to talk about what actually goes on in a war. Excuse me, ex military and all that. I'll shut up now and not post on this again.

that's weak!

133 Westward Ho  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:37:40am

The night sky is lit with flares, what does that signify military lizards?

134 rightymouse  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:37:43am

re: #113 Banner

You is asking for whack stick on yerself.

135 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:38:00am

re: #129 Banner

? Okay, I get it, you're not supposed to talk about what actually goes on in a war. Excuse me, ex military and all that. I'll shut up now and not post on this again.

slaughtering boat loads of Gazans is not the point....Japan and Germany are irrelevent now....

136 Maximu§  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:38:43am

re: #121 Banner

I'm a veteran, but if they'd take me back at my age, I'd go. I have no qualms about fighting for my country.

Veteran?

LGF is full of veterans and you will have to talk to alot of us vets in here before we're convinced you served in the armed forces.

137 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:38:57am
138 Dark_Falcon  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:38:59am

re: #31 Walter L. Newton

So evidently a Moby, Troll, what ever, waiting to drop a "bomb" like that.

One roast troll coming right up! It's around lunch time here in Chicagoland so today's troll ought to make a tasty meal.

139 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:38:59am

re: #127 Venflon

According to local news services, hamas has built some sort of line of bunkers, trenches, tunnels(Vietnam style) along the gaza strip border, 3 km inside.
Apparently the artillery being fired at the open areas is meant to soften up that defensive line.

Personally I'm not that eager for an entry, unlike the initial airstrikes that were a total surprise in their timing, the IDF is not capable of doing a surprise ground attack at this time, as everyone is expecting it. (The Politicians to blame for the delay with the entry.)
Thus, hamas has a plan/strategy in place, as primitive as it may be, to counter it. in the past, they have planted explosive charges UNDER the road itself and then coated it back up with asphalt for remote detonation when/if IDF forces pass over it. So we can expect them to have those in place at this time as well... Along with other surprises.

Is an amphibious assault out of the question?

140 Opinionated  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:39:07am

re: #107 Nevergiveup

They don't want to rule over Gaza for even a minute. problem is neither does anyone else with half a mind.

I was vehemently against the Gaza withdrawal.

But there was one argument that would have convinced me- if I believed it was true.

The argument was that if Israel completely surrenders Gaza, and the Arabs don't behave as civilized people, it would be absolute proof to everyone, everyone, even knee jerk Israel haters and International diplomats, that nothing satisfies the barbarians.

It was a valid argument if you were in a rational world.

But in the World in which we live, there is nothing Israel can do-and there is nothing the barbarians demonstrating their depravity could do- that will result in the World siding with Israel. Ever.

With the exception of the good people of the United States.

141 Maximu§  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:39:26am

re: #133 Westward Ho

The night sky is lit with flares, what does that signify military lizards?

It means drop down and don't move.

142 yma o hyd  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:39:58am

re: #106 Opinionated

Easy solution. Let him say something right.

'Obama - Obama - say something - anything - anything at all!'

Waffle ... waffle ... waffle ...

143 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:40:02am

re: #139 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Is an amphibious assault out of the question?

entrenching themselves is suicide

144 itellu3times  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:40:10am

Maybe if the UN supported Egypt? Not that they're any prize, and we know they don't want to do it. And it would set up the precedent of possibly turning the west bank back to Jordan at some point.

Just thinking out loud.

145 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:40:26am
146 itellu3times  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:40:43am

re: #133 Westward Ho

The night sky is lit with flares, what does that signify military lizards?

On which side of the border?

147 rwmofo  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:40:48am

re: #129 Banner

? Okay, I get it, you're not supposed to talk about what actually goes on in a war. Excuse me, ex military and all that. I'll shut up now and not post on this again.

Grow some nads, sport.

148 opnion  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:40:54am

FNC just had a Plai jounalist on. He is screming about Israeli war crime.
Jamie Colby pushed him back, but he went right back to his talking points.

149 Erik The Red  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:41:13am

re: #127 Venflon

Thank you for the in site. Keep it coming and be safe.

150 MJBrutus  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:41:16am

What is Israel's longer term solution for this? I mean, they can't exterminate all the Pallies, vermin though they are. They can't move them all to some other place where they would be less of a threat. What do you do with a population of millions on your border who hate you more than they love their own children? What do you do with violent Jihadi savages who love death the way we love life?

The only answer I can come up with is quarantine them. The wall has been great in keeping them away from civilized people who they seek to kill by suicide bombing, but it can't stop the rockets which are getting more and more capable of hurting and killing more and more people. The Israelis cannot keep them quarantined for ever. So what can be done?

151 CofactorMatrix  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:41:29am

Finish the job this time.

152 Opinionated  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:41:37am

re: #86 6pat6

Maybe my sarcasm was not evident in my comment.

You may consider it sarcasm, but it's likely the truth.

153 Nevergiveup  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:42:19am

re: #137 Killian Bundy

/all 1.5 million of them?


Besides the inhumanity and immorality of mass murder, what many fanatics forget is how difficult it is to kill on such a mass scale. Hitler severely compromised his war effort by diverting so many resources to the Holocaust. Just a small historical statement.

154 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:42:38am

re: #144 itellu3times

Maybe if the UN supported Egypt? Not that they're any prize, and we know they don't want to do it. And it would set up the precedent of possibly turning the west bank back to Jordan at some point.

Just thinking out loud.

No one wants the West Bank or Gaza. Egypt & Jordan were glad to be rid of their Pali problems & foist them on Israel. Let's not forget that the PLO almost overthrew the Jordanian Monarchy (Black September).

155 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:42:53am

re: #129 Banner

? Okay, I get it, you're not supposed to talk about what actually goes on in a war. Excuse me, ex military and all that. I'll shut up now and not post on this again.

Look asshole, stop whining, what a fucking little creep. I will clip and paste the rules ONCE more...

"Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal."

If you're ex-military, then you understand rules, don't you soldier? Well, respect the rules here.

You don't like it, speak to the owner, Charles.

156 babes  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:43:20am

re: #120 Luigi

Thousands of Shoes Appear on Miami Freeway
Mystery: Who dumped thousands of old shoes on Miami highway?
[Link: news.google.com...]

Mystery solved:
Thousands march over Gaza strikes

Great. Now the world will suffer outbreaks of hurling shoes.

157 Spare O'Lake  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:43:46am

re: #139 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Is an amphibious assault out of the question?

*glub glub*
Ssshhhhh!

158 itellu3times  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:43:49am

re: #150 MJBrutus

What is Israel's longer term solution for this? I mean, they can't exterminate all the Pallies, vermin though they are. They can't move them all to some other place where they would be less of a threat. What do you do with a population of millions on your border who hate you more than they love their own children? What do you do with violent Jihadi savages who love death the way we love life?

The only answer I can come up with is quarantine them. The wall has been great in keeping them away from civilized people who they seek to kill by suicide bombing, but it can't stop the rockets which are getting more and more capable of hurting and killing more and more people. The Israelis cannot keep them quarantined for ever. So what can be done?

In times of peace, plenty of Gazans apparently worked in Israel proper, and had sufficiently cordial relations.

Not so much that they wouldn't vote for Hamas, it seems.

But that vision of coexistence still persists, I guess.

159 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:44:15am

re: #153 Nevergiveup

Besides the inhumanity and immorality of mass murder, what many fanatics forget is how difficult it is to kill on such a mass scale. Hitler severely compromised his war effort by diverting so many resources to the Holocaust. Just a small historical statement.

Actually, one of the many sick features of the Holocaust was just how little effort the Germans had to put out to pull it off.

160 Nevergiveup  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:44:19am

re: #144 itellu3times

Maybe if the UN supported Egypt? Not that they're any prize, and we know they don't want to do it. And it would set up the precedent of possibly turning the west bank back to Jordan at some point.

Just thinking out loud.

When the Israelis gave Sinai back to Egypt, they practically begged Egypt to take Gaza also.

161 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:44:23am

re: #150 MJBrutus

What is Israel's longer term solution for this? I mean, they can't exterminate all the Pallies, vermin though they are. They can't move them all to some other place where they would be less of a threat. What do you do with a population of millions on your border who hate you more than they love their own children? What do you do with violent Jihadi savages who love death the way we love life?

The only answer I can come up with is quarantine them. The wall has been great in keeping them away from civilized people who they seek to kill by suicide bombing, but it can't stop the rockets which are getting more and more capable of hurting and killing more and more people. The Israelis cannot keep them quarantined for ever. So what can be done?

I'm pretty much all talked out about it but....colonize Gaza and retain total control of the people and the borders...it's going to be Israels problem....there is no other way to protect herself from any other corrupt overloards

162 yma o hyd  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:44:40am

re: #120 Luigi

Gawd - and here I was, hoping to see a video of shoe-throwing!

163 itellu3times  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:44:52am

re: #139 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Is an amphibious assault out of the question?

Gigantic Zionist frogs are lining up at this very moment ...

164 Salamantis  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:45:04am

OT: If anyone here wants to watch the Bill Maher film Religulous for free on their puter screen, it's up in its entirety here:

Google Video

I don't know how long it will remain up before it's discovered and taken down.

165 CofactorMatrix  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:45:06am

re: #73 Walter L. Newton

Do you really think we're discussing civilized people here?

166 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:45:15am

re: #127 Venflon

According to local news services, hamas has built some sort of line of bunkers, trenches, tunnels(Vietnam style) along the gaza strip border, 3 km inside.

167 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:45:28am

re: #154 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

No one wants the West Bank or Gaza. Egypt & Jordan were glad to be rid of their Pali problems & foist them on Israel. Let's not forget that the PLO almost overthrew the Jordanian Monarchy (Black September).

Actually, the Gaza strip is PRIME real estate. (it could be one of THE most attractive beach resorts in the entire world). What nobody wants is the "Pali Problem" that goes with it!

168 Erik The Red  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:45:29am

re: #150 MJBrutus

What is Israel's longer term solution for this? I mean, they can't exterminate all the Pallies, vermin though they are. They can't move them all to some other place where they would be less of a threat. What do you do with a population of millions on your border who hate you more than they love their own children? What do you do with violent Jihadi savages who love death the way we love life?

The only answer I can come up with is quarantine them. The wall has been great in keeping them away from civilized people who they seek to kill by suicide bombing, but it can't stop the rockets which are getting more and more capable of hurting and killing more and more people. The Israelis cannot keep them quarantined for ever. So what can be done?

Status Quo until the Arabs except Israel. Will never happen so who the Fuck knows.

169 rwmofo  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:45:29am

In case anyone didn't notice, my troll detector found more than one lurking this morning.

170 Joan  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:45:33am

“War is evil, but it is often the lesser evil”

171 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:45:34am

re: #127 Venflon

According to local news services, hamas has built some sort of line of bunkers, trenches, tunnels(Vietnam style) along the gaza strip border, 3 km inside..

/you can bet every square meter of Gaza territory required for vehicle movement is bore sighted and/or mined/boobytrapped

172 debutaunt  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:46:04am

re: #133 Westward Ho

The night sky is lit with flares, what does that signify military lizards?

4th of July? Disneyland?

173 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:46:05am

Mandy! Good to see you. I wanted to respond to your post the other day, but I didn't see you.

What the Palestinians do to their kids, and what we do to ours, these are not unrelated things. They are very much intertwined, or maybe juxtaposed. I hate disciplining my kids too, but as you and I know cute widdle baby boys grow up to be great big six footers, capable of great deeds, or terrible deeds.

We mothers are literally the front line for western civilization. I mean that. It is up to us to teach our children the values of western civilization and to treasure those values.

To me, that means willingness to go to war, and to send your sons to war, if the alternative is to grovel and give up your traditions, your faith, and your culture. It doesn't mean loving war.

It means self-control, restraint, and a cultured mind that seeks out truth.

Okay, I'm getting soap-boxy here, but my point is I know it sucks to have to be the mean Mom. Trust me, I know, I know, I know. However--that is the difference we are fighting for. Teach them discipline and strength so they will have a life worth living, in a world worth living in, rather than teaching them that there is nothing more valuable than dying for revenge.

Okay, soap box put away. Good job on the Mom-front.

174 Venflon  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:46:08am

re: #139 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Is an amphibious assault out of the question?

Interesting idea, though Israel's navy is its weakest link, I can't imagine any major moblization of units via the sea.
However, special forces ambhibious attacks are quite likely.

175 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:46:24am

re: #165 CofactorMatrix

Do you really think we're discussing civilized people here?

yes...we are civilized

176 Dianna  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:46:42am

I know I'm late, but I just wanted to say: Go, IDF!

And why doesn't the report mention that those mosques are ammo dumps?

177 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:46:43am

This is going to be a "banner" day.

/not

178 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:46:49am

re: #165 CofactorMatrix

Do you really think we're discussing civilized people here?

It doesn't matter. I don't care if we were discussing monkeys. Charles' owns this place, and it's his rules. Do you understand rules?

"Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal."

One idiot got the stick already this morning.

179 wiffersnapper  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:46:52am

Hamas is gonna get their butts whooped.

180 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:47:02am

re: #133 Westward Ho

The night sky is lit with flares, what does that signify military lizards?

That the Palis lack night vision equipment...

181 rwmofo  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:47:03am

re: #164 Salamantis

OT: If anyone here wants to watch the Bill Maher film Religulous for free on their puter screen, it's up in its entirety here:


[Video]I don't know how long it will remain up before it's discovered and taken down.

I'd rather eat liver with the ex-wife.

182 Nevergiveup  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:47:09am

re: #159 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Actually, one of the many sick features of the Holocaust was just how little effort the Germans had to put out to pull it off.

The diverted alot of resources to the Holocaust. They delayed many train loads of supplies to the Eastern front because the transportation of "Jews" and others destine to be exterminated had transportation priority.

183 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:47:37am

re: #156 babes


Consider it an economic stimulus package for the shoe-makers.

184 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:47:49am

re: #173 EmmmieG

Mandy! Good to see you. I wanted to respond to your post the other day, but I didn't see you.

What the Palestinians do to their kids, and what we do to ours, these are not unrelated things. They are very much intertwined, or maybe juxtaposed. I hate disciplining my kids too, but as you and I know cute widdle baby boys grow up to be great big six footers, capable of great deeds, or terrible deeds.

We mothers are literally the front line for western civilization. I mean that. It is up to us to teach our children the values of western civilization and to treasure those values.

To me, that means willingness to go to war, and to send your sons to war, if the alternative is to grovel and give up your traditions, your faith, and your culture. It doesn't mean loving war.

It means self-control, restraint, and a cultured mind that seeks out truth.

Okay, I'm getting soap-boxy here, but my point is I know it sucks to have to be the mean Mom. Trust me, I know, I know, I know. However--that is the difference we are fighting for. Teach them discipline and strength so they will have a life worth living, in a world worth living in, rather than teaching them that there is nothing more valuable than dying for revenge.

Okay, soap box put away. Good job on the Mom-front.

((((((EmmmieG))))))

185 CofactorMatrix  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:47:59am

re: #175 albusteve

Yes, but we're discussing savages.

186 Dianna  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:48:11am

re: #169 rwmofo

In case anyone didn't notice, my troll detector found more than one lurking this morning.

I just got up, so, no. I didn't notice.

187 unclassifiable  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:48:29am

re: #176 Dianna

I know I'm late, but I just wanted to say: Go, IDF!

And why doesn't the report mention that those mosques are ammo dumps?

It confuses the "narrative".

188 Opinionated  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:48:38am

re: #154 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

No one wants the West Bank or Gaza. Egypt & Jordan were glad to be rid of their Pali problems & foist them on Israel. Let's not forget that the PLO almost overthrew the Jordanian Monarchy (Black September).

There were Arabs and there were Jews.

The Palestinian identity was created in the 1960's as a tool to use against Israel.

What the creators didn't anticipate is that their evil monstrosity of a creation would be uncontrollable and would even turn on them.

189 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:48:45am

re: #127 Venflon

According to local news services, hamas has built some sort of line of bunkers, trenches, tunnels(Vietnam style) along the gaza strip border, 3 km inside.

(Let's try this again)

According to reports I saw last week, Hamas has built a total of 50 kilometers of defensive tunnels.

190 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:48:58am

re: #178 Walter L. Newton

It doesn't matter. I don't care if we were discussing monkeys. Charles' owns this place, and it's his rules. Do you understand rules?

"Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal."

One idiot got the stick already this morning.

No. 7?

191 Maximu§  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:49:05am

Off to do yard work, see you all later.

Please weed out the trolls while I'm gone (take out the trash).

192 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:49:08am

re: #185 CofactorMatrix

Yes, but we're discussing savages.

speak for yourself amigo...

193 FlightERDoc  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:49:11am

Hamas and the rest of the terrorists use their children as targets and bomb-carriers.

We protect ours.

No comparison.

194 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:49:13am

re: #129 Banner

? Excuse me, ex military and all that. I'll shut up now and not post on this again.

/branch, unit, rank, MOS, service period?

195 MJBrutus  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:49:18am

re: #161 albusteve

I'm pretty much all talked out about it but....colonize Gaza and retain total control of the people and the borders...it's going to be Israels problem....there is no other way to protect herself from any other corrupt overloards

An interesting thought. I don't see yet how it improves things for the Israelis though. For example, is Israel to maintain martial law over Gaza for the foreseeable future? In what way is this different or better than the occupation they abandoned in '05?

196 rwmofo  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:49:27am

re: #176 Dianna

I know I'm late, but I just wanted to say: Go, IDF!

And why doesn't the report mention that those mosques are ammo dumps?

It depends on the source. The MSM edits out the obvious to fit their agenda.

197 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:49:43am

re: #190 MandyManners

No. 7?

Yes!

198 CofactorMatrix  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:49:50am

re: #178 Walter L. Newton

It doesn't matter. I don't care if we were discussing monkeys. Charles' owns this place, and it's his rules. Do you understand rules?

"Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal."

One idiot got the stick already this morning.

Ok, so just so I understand, is cheering on the IDF advocating violence?

199 itellu3times  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:49:52am

re: #175 albusteve

yes...we are civilized

indeed. according to vdh, that means in part we're better at killing, than anybody else.

or, as Captain Kirk says in "A Taste of Armageddon", "I am a barbarian, and I intend to prove it to you."

200 debutaunt  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:50:26am

re: #162 yma o hyd

Gawd - and here I was, hoping to see a video of shoe-throwing!

It will be a summer and winter Olympic event.

201 rwmofo  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:50:55am

re: #186 Dianna

I just got up, so, no. I didn't notice.

Keep watching. It's kinda like whack-a-mole.

Whack-a-troll?

202 realwest  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:51:10am

re: #127 Venflon A very thoughtful comment. Thank you for that.
But it does lead, I think, to a fairly logical question: How does Israel insure that no rockets or mortars are ever fired on Israel again from Gaza if it doesn't use ground forces (and I am a Vietnam infantry combat grunt and am not looking forward to the IDF's "grunts" job either)?

203 LC LaWedgie  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:51:10am

re: #176 Dianna

It's part of the U.N.'s "Ammo for Allah" program.

204 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:51:17am

re: #182 Nevergiveup

The diverted alot of resources to the Holocaust. They delayed many train loads of supplies to the Eastern front because the transportation of "Jews" and others destine to be exterminated had transportation priority.

Effect? yes... Severe Effect, no... that's my point, that and one should never think that a evil of that magnitude is hard to perpetrate because it requires an enormous effort.

We'll have to agree to disagree... Not really wanting to spend the thread's time on checking sources.

205 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:51:17am

re: #194 Killian Bundy

/branch, unit, rank, MOS, service period?

/supply clerk? ..... (if that)

206 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:51:25am

re: #197 Walter L. Newton

Yes!

It was a very young one.

207 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:51:29am

re: #195 MJBrutus

An interesting thought. I don't see yet how it improves things for the Israelis though. For example, is Israel to maintain martial law over Gaza for the foreseeable future? In what way is this different or better than the occupation they abandoned in '05?

Gaza will be weapons free...Gazans will be occupied with food water and power...they can leave if anyone will take them...Israel will be secure and thats the prime directive...but it cant last forever that way....it will evolve

208 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:51:34am

re: #198 CofactorMatrix

Ok, so just so I understand, is cheering on the IDF advocating violence?

Hey smart ass. Go to the top of the page, see the "contact" option. Well, use it and ask Charles yourself.

Careful.

209 Erik The Red  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:51:39am

re: #198 CofactorMatrix

Ok, so just so I understand, is cheering on the IDF advocating violence?

No it is not. Advocating killing people is. Easy.

210 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:51:48am

re: #194 Killian Bundy

/branch TREE , unit SMALL , rank YES , MOS MOUSE, service period MONTHLY ?


:)

211 irongrampa  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:51:52am

As I see this, you'll never defeat an ideology militarily, only reduce the threat it presents.
Israel CAN crush Hamas, my question is what will happen afterwards? Uneasy truce? Regression in time to the previous? What looks likely to be the scenario?

212 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:52:15am

re: #206 MandyManners

It was a very young one.

Yes, first comment -5 karma before he got the stick.

213 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:52:46am

re: #199 itellu3times

indeed. according to vdh, that means in part we're better at killing, than anybody else.

or, as Captain Kirk says in "A Taste of Armageddon", "I am a barbarian, and I intend to prove it to you."

HA!....good one...did Kirk really say that?

214 alegrias  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:52:51am

Spanish news is quoting Iraqi president Al Maliki hanging out with Ahmadinejad in Iran AND calling Israelis criminals--for defending themselves against terrorists.

F.U., Al Maliki, for siding with terrorists like Saddam Hussein did.

Jewish Americans also serve in the US military and helped liberate your sorry ass--which your islamist brothers wouldn't do.

215 Maximu§  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:53:07am

re: #194 Killian Bundy

/branch, unit, rank, MOS, service period?

Don't hold your breath waiting for that answer....civilians get easily tripped up when trying to google search military occupational specialties and type answers at the same time.

216 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:53:28am

Does anyone have a good map of the area?

217 alegrias  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:53:36am

re: #185 CofactorMatrix

Yes, but we're discussing savages.

* * *
We're discussing persons who choose to become terrorists and terrorist enablers.

218 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:54:02am

re: #212 Walter L. Newton

Yes, first comment -5 karma before he got the stick.

So young that there wasn't enough meat to make a good "horse-deavers".

/still hungry

219 debutaunt  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:54:06am

re: #183 EmmmieG

Consider it an economic stimulus package for the shoe-makers.

Used shoes - an amazing economic opportunity!

220 Eclectic Infidel  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:54:09am

Hamas must be destroyed.

221 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:54:09am

re: #215 Maximu§

Don't hold your breath waiting for that answer....civilians get easily tripped up when trying to google search military occupational specialties and type answers at the same time.

Ouch.

/Hi Maximus!

222 itellu3times  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:54:16am

re: #213 albusteve

HA!....good one...did Kirk really say that?

You betcha, followed by "general order 24".

223 Nevergiveup  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:54:21am

re: #216 MandyManners

Does anyone have a good map of the area?


Google Gaza or Gaza city etc

224 Emperor Norton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:54:53am

Gaza: 139 sq mi, Population (July 2007) 1,481,080
Philadelphia: 135 sq mi, Population (July 2007) 1,449,634

Frank Rizzo would have this mess cleaned up in no time.

225 Maximu§  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:55:04am

re: #221 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Ouch.

/Hi Maximus!

Hey you Old Warhorse....Happy NewYears!

My son made it to Fort Drum.

226 Osama Bin Asshat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:55:05am

re: #155 Walter L. Newton

Look asshole, stop whining, what a fucking little creep. I will clip and paste the rules ONCE more...

"Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal."

If you're ex-military, then you understand rules, don't you soldier? Well, respect the rules here.

You don't like it, speak to the owner, Charles.

There are plenty of comments on here that advocate violence. Why is Banner being raked over the coals? There is almost a collective cheer leading section when Charles posts an IDF bombing video. Be careful with the moral equivalence and lecturing. War is a terrible but necessary thing at times. The IDF will be entering a region where the enemy has no uniform but instead a collective hatred for anything Jewish. Banner's solution is certainly extreme, and against the rules here, but it also happens to be the policy of Hamas, Iran and even Hezbollah.

227 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:55:08am

re: #216 MandyManners

Does anyone have a good map of the area?

I do. On the wall where I work!

(oh ,, wait ,, you wanted sumfin online that would help ya ,, neveahmind!)

228 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:55:29am

re: #222 itellu3times

You betcha, followed by "general order 24".

ok I'll bite...what's that?....vaporize a planet or something?

229 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:55:47am

re: #225 Maximu§

Hey you Old Warhorse....Happy NewYears!

My son made it to Fort Drum.

And you, too!

Excellent. When does he deploy to Trashcanistan?

230 jcm  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:55:49am

re: #202 realwest

A very thoughtful comment. Thank you for that.
But it does lead, I think, to a fairly logical question: How does Israel insure that no rockets or mortars are ever fired on Israel again from Gaza if it doesn't use ground forces (and I am a Vietnam infantry combat grunt and am not looking forward to the IDF's "grunts" job either)?

As you have point out before. Only one way.

Muddy Boots On the Ground.

Do a house to house clearance of Gaza is most likely too costly.

Alternatively is the utter removal of Hamas. Occupation. And strict control of everything that moves in and out, and around Gaza.

231 Maximu§  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:56:14am

re: #223 Nevergiveup

Google Gaza or Gaza city etc

Just type in "Shithole" and Gaza should pop right up.

232 LC LaWedgie  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:56:17am

re: #216 MandyManners

Try here.

233 Westward Ho  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:56:18am

re: #146 itellu3times

Al Jazeera has reporters inside so I presume that it is inside Gaza.

234 Airborn Swine  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:56:20am

re: #112 Walter L. Newton

That's what I was implying to him, but he doesn't seem to get the message.

Somewhat confused...what do all the cheering for the IDF think is the purpose of a military force ? My retired gunnery sergeant drill instructor from ROTC days often stated that it is "to kill people and break things".

The purpose of the IDF ground invasion is to get in personal and kill people, hopefully the right people who desperately need killing, and hopefully ALL of the right people with as few of the wrong people (civilians) as possible. So the heartfelt statement of "kill them all" could easily be read as kill every last Hamas terrorist and leader...just sayin.

235 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:56:20am

re: #224 Emperor Norton

Gaza: 139 sq mi, Population (July 2007) 1,481,080
Philadelphia: 135 sq mi, Population (July 2007) 1,449,634

Frank Rizzo would have this mess cleaned up in no time.

an excellent analogy....there is some perspective right there

236 Dianna  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:56:34am

re: #205 pre-Boomer Marine brat

/supply clerk? ..... (if that)

Excuse me? My father was a supply clerk. He did not claim to be Chesty Puller's aide.

237 Venflon  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:56:36am

re: #189 pre-Boomer Marine brat

(Let's try this again)

According to reports I saw last week, Hamas has built a total of 50 kilometers of defensive tunnels.

Hmm, I haven't seen that report, I wonder who the source for that information is.
It's quite possible though I guess, they have had a lot of time to prepare for a ground incursion.. Which is why I'm hoping the IDF has some sort of surprise instore.

238 realwest  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:57:01am

re: #150 MJBrutus
That's the million dollar question, isn't it. I honestly don't have an answer to that, but sure wish I did.
.
.
.
.
BTW - do any of y'all think that if President Elect Obama made a clear, unequivocal statement of support of Israel TODAY, it might well reshape both the MSM coverage of this war and indeed the "world opinion" being currently voiced?

239 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:57:02am

re: #216 MandyManners

Does anyone have a good map of the area?

UTexas Perry/Casteneda Collection is a major resource

Scroll down to Maps of the Middle East, click and follow in.

It also has links to OTHER map sites on the web

240 rwmofo  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:57:12am

re: #198 CofactorMatrix

Ok, so just so I understand, is cheering on the IDF advocating violence?

Just so you don't get off track...

Last week the Israelis sat around doing nothing while their neighbor launched rockets into their yard every day with the sole intent of killing innocent civilians. Schools were targeted.

This week the Israelis are responding accordingly.

241 cincinnati_kid37  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:57:25am

You're a Hamas Commander, and you're at home ?

242 Nevergiveup  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:57:33am

re: #231 Maximu§

Just type in "Shithole" and Gaza should pop right up.

Map here

[Link: www.mideastweb.org...]

243 itellu3times  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:57:47am

re: #228 albusteve

ok I'll bite...what's that?....vaporize a planet or something?

yep.

244 CynicalConservative  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:57:57am

All sorts of clean-up happening here, gets jumpy on every comment check.

245 Opinionated  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:58:08am

re: #211 irongrampa

As I see this, you'll never defeat an ideology militarily, only reduce the threat it presents.
Israel CAN crush Hamas, my question is what will happen afterwards? Uneasy truce? Regression in time to the previous? What looks likely to be the scenario?

There is no good scenario. It pains me to be pessimistic.

If Israel crushes Hamas, the "good" terrorists of Fatah will take over.

Israel will be forced by the World, including the US to make suicidal concessions to the "good" terrorist.

A Palestinian State, surrounding Israel from the East and West, will become highly militarized. With Hezbollah in the North, Israel will be in constant mortal danger.

If Israel is forced to war, and wins, the scenario gets replayed.

If Israel loses................

246 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:58:13am

re: #226 Osama Bin Asshat

Why is Banner being raked over the coals

For an earlier comment to "wipe tham all (Palistinians) out". Every single one of the 1.5 million people residing in Gaza

247 alegrias  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:58:25am

re: #198 CofactorMatrix

Ok, so just so I understand, is cheering on the IDF advocating violence?

* * *
Cheering on the IDF is cheering the forces of freedom & liberty who are defending innocents from tyrants, in my opinion.

248 Dianna  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:58:28am

re: #215 Maximu§

Don't hold your breath waiting for that answer....civilians get easily tripped up when trying to google search military occupational specialties and type answers at the same time.

I'm giggling madly. I shouldn't, but I am.

249 Maximu§  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:58:35am

re: #229 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

And you, too!

Excellent. When does he deploy to Trashcanistan?

He's in the 2nd Battalion and rumor has it they deploy in November, I heard the 3rd Battalion just deployed to Afghanistan. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

250 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:58:59am

re: #226 Osama Bin Asshat

...Banner's solution is certainly extreme, and against the rules here, but it also happens to be the policy of Hamas, Iran and even Hezbollah.

You answered your own question above. Geeeesssshhhhh.

251 Erik The Red  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:59:13am

re: #226 Osama Bin Asshat

There are plenty of comments on here that advocate violence. Why is Banner being raked over the coals? There is almost a collective cheer leading section when Charles posts an IDF bombing video. Be careful with the moral equivalence and lecturing. War is a terrible but necessary thing at times. The IDF will be entering a region where the enemy has no uniform but instead a collective hatred for anything Jewish. Banner's solution is certainly extreme, and against the rules here, but it also happens to be the policy of Hamas, Iran and even Hezbollah.

He posted a number of times about killing people. That is not on. We all know what Hamas advocates but that is not what Charles wants to be associated with on HIS blog.

252 itellu3times  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:59:27am

re: #243 itellu3times

ok I'll bite...what's that?....vaporize a planet or something?

yep.

One will note, however, that in the event, that does not actually happen. I recommend the episode, here's a summary.

253 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:59:32am

Thanks, Lizards!

254 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:59:42am

re: #239 pre-Boomer Marine brat

UTexas Perry/Casteneda Collection is a major resource

Scroll down to Maps of the Middle East, click and follow in.

It also has links to OTHER map sites on the web

wow!re: #243 itellu3times

yep.

...what a cool site for a maphead....thanks very much

255 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:59:43am

re: #236 Dianna

Excuse me? My father was a supply clerk. He did not claim to be Chesty Puller's aide.

That would make an excellent name for a Porn Starlet/ MAssage "Therapist"

256 irongrampa  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 9:59:54am

re: #245 Opinionated

Pretty much thought the same, and was hoping I missed something a smarter person than I was aware of.

257 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:00:08am

re: #236 Dianna

Excuse me? My father was a supply clerk. He did not claim to be Chesty Puller's aide.

ouch!
No offense, please ... :-)

/ESPECIALLY with the Chesty Puller reference!

258 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:00:20am

re: #243 itellu3times

yep.

see?...I have potential :)

259 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:00:23am

It's show time, mf'ers!

260 MJBrutus  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:00:26am

re: #207 albusteve

Gaza will be weapons free...Gazans will be occupied with food water and power...they can leave if anyone will take them...Israel will be secure and thats the prime directive...but it cant last forever that way....it will evolve

You may be on to something here :-)

261 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:00:42am

re: #236 Dianna

Excuse me? My father was a supply clerk. He did not claim to be Chesty Puller's aide.

Without supply clerks, an army would be in a whole lot of trouble.

262 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:00:45am

re: #249 Maximu§

He's in the 2nd Battalion and rumor has it they deploy in November, I heard the 3rd Battalion just deployed to Afghanistan. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Sorry to say, but I'm willing to bet that deployment schedule gets sped up when Obama takes office.

263 CofactorMatrix  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:00:49am

re: #209 Erik The Red

No it is not. Advocating killing people is. Easy.

I'm honestly lost here. All I said was, in essence, "Go IDF".

Oh, on reviewing comments, I see. You think I was supporting a "kill them all" sentiment. Not in the least. My point was more that it is the least "civilized" (which, when discussing war, is an abuse of the term) side in a conflict will pretty much set the tone, and, in my view, Ham-ass doesn't really rise to the level of being "civilized" under any non-trivial definition.

Apologies for the crossed wires, I need to make my points more explicitly when posting on a list full of people who can't read minds ;)

264 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:01:09am

re: #18 red satellite

Health Official? Hmmm...must be another name for MORTICIAN.

Does he wear a green helmet?

265 rwmofo  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:01:22am

re: #259 Who Watches the Watchmen?

It's show time, mf'ers!

Who ya callin' an mf'er?

/

266 Dasher  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:01:46am

Are the tanks positioning or repositioning?

-- Were they out of position or something? /sarc

267 jcm  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:01:48am

re: #253 MandyManners

Thanks, Lizards!

Google maps is pretty good, with satellite views.

268 SpiritOf1683  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:02:00am

re: #36 Walter L. Newton

BBC reporter says bombing of pick up trucks with "missiles" were really oxygen tanks...

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Pay close attention to the tag at the end of the article. Some one questions his reporting and the reporter never answers the comment.


Oxygen cylinders for welding torches you can bet. And we certainly know what those welding torches will be used for.

269 Erik The Red  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:02:09am

re: #253 MandyManners

Thanks, Lizards!

Welcome. For what 2M/

270 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:02:31am

re: #255 sattv4u2

That would make an excellent name for a Porn Starlet/ MAssage "Therapist"

CP is sacred turf bro...careful :)

271 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:02:37am

re: #263 CofactorMatrix

Where is this list full of people who can read minds?

Actually, that would be quite dull. Lots of "yeah", "Right on," "That's what I was thinking," and nothing else.

The flame wars would be really boring. Just a lot of "Same to you, pal."

Just kidding with you.

272 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:02:40am

re: #237 Venflon

Hmm, I haven't seen that report, I wonder who the source for that information is.

Don't have a link. Saw it last week (maybe mid-week?) in an article on either JPost, YNet or Ha'aretz.

273 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:02:57am

re: #34 opinionated

Everyone preparing.

The IDF readying their equipment to move forward.

Hamas readying their children to sacrifice for propaganda purposes.

Very sad and very true.

274 unclassifiable  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:03:51am

re: #211 irongrampa

As I see this, you'll never defeat an ideology militarily, only reduce the threat it presents.

It's a sticky question. Clearly we fought fascism in WWII but it is debatable if the war itself really defeated the ideology (VB and their ilk still exist) as much the publicizing of the brutal and shameful ordeal of the concentration camps.

The Aztecs are gone but only when their terrorized neighbors saw a chance to rally around a group of Conquistadors (equally brutal in their own right).

Ideologies are fought on battlefields that are not of one's choosing -- that is an individuals mind. The battles often result in the longest most protracted campaigns and usually end up doing as much harm to the victors as the vanquished.

/on a lighter note -- time to watch football. Later lizards.

275 yma o hyd  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:03:54am

re: #237 Venflon

Hmm, I haven't seen that report, I wonder who the source for that information is.
It's quite possible though I guess, they have had a lot of time to prepare for a ground incursion.. Which is why I'm hoping the IDF has some sort of surprise instore.

Thats what I'm hoping as well!

Thing is though that we'll not get to know until afterwards - this is an ongoing military operation, and the internet/cellphones/twitter have made it easy for terrorists to keep up with what police forces plan, see what happened in Mumbai!

As the IDF has been using misinformation, to the detriment of Hamas, very well indeed, I think we're all reduced to speculating here.

Mind - I think there may well be special forces already operating inside Gaza, only we will not learn about this until much mich later, when its all over, and probably not even then.

So, good times for armchair generals like me, but lets be aware that we know nothing, and that on no account must we provide information to the hamassholes, even if inadvertently.

276 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:04:16am

re: #267 jcm

Google maps is pretty good, with satellite views.

I have Live Search but, it doesn't go very close with the satellite.

277 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:04:19am

re: #245 Opinionated

There is no good scenario. It pains me to be pessimistic.

If Israel crushes Hamas, the "good" terrorists of Fatah will take over.

Israel will be forced by the World, including the US to make suicidal concessions to the "good" terrorist.

A Palestinian State, surrounding Israel from the East and West, will become highly militarized. With Hezbollah in the North, Israel will be in constant mortal danger.

If Israel is forced to war, and wins, the scenario gets replayed.

If Israel loses................

Samson

278 Maximu§  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:04:28am

re: #248 Dianna

I'm giggling madly. I shouldn't, but I am.

Go right ahead an giggle your cute little butt off....we, who actually served in the military can smell a liar miles away. I could be wrong tho, Banner...have you finished your Goggle Search yet?

If I'm wrong, I'll admit it, but I'm calling you out. Any Lizard who steps in here claiming to be a vet and is proved a liar, should be booted.

279 Dianna  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:04:50am

re: #234 Airborn Swine

Not really. Your formulation - kill those who desperately need killing and as few who don't as possible - is quite correct.

"Kill them all" is out of line.

280 Maximu§  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:05:43am

re: #262 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Sorry to say, but I'm willing to bet that deployment schedule gets sped up when Obama takes office.

I'm not gonna sleep a wink while he is deployed in Afghanistsn....:(

281 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:06:08am

What time is it in Gaza and when is BMNT?

282 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:06:31am

re: #278 Maximu§

Any Lizard who steps in here claiming to be a vet and is proved a liar

I once pulled a thorn from my dogs paw,, so i'm sorta kinda like a VET ,,,,

ummm,, wha? VETERAN ,, oh ,, not VETRANARIAN ,, oh ,, ummm, well ,,, nevahmind !

283 rwmofo  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:06:37am

re: #278 Maximu§

Any Lizard who steps in here claiming to be a vet and is proved a liar, should be booted.

Maybe he's a Salvation Army vet - or something.

284 Mr. Pizza  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:06:47am

Israel is alway asked to "use restraint", and it's rarely mentioned who started this in the first place.

B.O. is silent, for almost a week now. I'm hoping it's a trend.

285 Osama Bin Asshat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:06:49am

re: #251 Erik The Red

He posted a number of times about killing people. That is not on. We all know what Hamas advocates but that is not what Charles wants to be associated with on HIS blog.

But war is about killing people. Is there a threshold number that the IDF needs to achieve, in terms of killing, and then back off? How do you differentiate Hamas from the average Palestinian? Remember, were talking about collectively the most dysfunctional peoples on Earth, with an average age of 17 that are completely indoctrinated against Israel.

286 CofactorMatrix  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:06:57am

re: #271 EmmmieG

It's my personal list. Has only one member.

287 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:07:04am

re: #280 Maximu§

I'm not gonna sleep a wink while he is deployed in Afghanistsn....:(

I understand... my boys are almost to military age. That shit sucks. I'd rather go in their place.

288 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:07:16am

re: #260 MJBrutus

You may be on to something here :-)

I honestly think Gaza could be turned into some kind of free trade zone, maybe lure foreign money and get some recontruction and capitalism goin...we've discussed this for almost a week and few people think it would work...I do but local sentiment toward Islamofascism must change...can it is the question

289 Nevergiveup  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:07:37am

re: #281 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

What time is it in Gaza and when is BMNT?

7 hours ahead

290 Dianna  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:07:39am

re: #255 sattv4u2

That would make an excellent name for a Porn Starlet/ MAssage "Therapist"

Clearly, you are not the child of a Marine. Particularly not of the Korean era.

291 alegrias  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:08:23am

re: #273 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Very sad and very true.

* * *
Hamas terrorists who have four wives and many children--whom they hold hostage to die on camera, or send off to be suicide bombers--are selfish pigs.

Children don't deserve to be used as jihad propaganda and jihad cannon fodder.

Using children in jihad is a WAR crime. Liberals ought to be ashamed of defending Hamas' right to abuse children thus.

292 Bobblehead  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:08:24am

re: #284 Mr. Pizza

Israel is alway asked to "use restraint", and it's rarely mentioned who started this in the first place.

B.O. is silent, for almost a week now. I'm hoping it's a trend.

He doesn't have a clue.

293 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:08:32am

Well, now FOX flak jacket boy is reporting that Israeli infantry, in full combat gear, are moving ALONG the Gaza border.

/gimme a break, why would they be doing that, do they need PT, why aren't they mounted on vehicles?

294 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:08:48am
295 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:08:54am

re: #281 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

What time is it in Gaza and when is BMNT?

I don't know about the latter but, it's 8:08 p.m..

296 jcm  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:09:00am

re: #276 MandyManners

I have Live Search but, it doesn't go very close with the satellite.

Northern Gaza Checkpoint in Google.

297 irongrampa  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:09:17am

Back in the day, when I used to frequent AOL political chat rooms, it was nearly a cottage industry exposing posers. Never could understand why people would do that. It's not a crime to have not served, that person's opinion is every bit as valid as a veteran.

298 buzzdroid  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:09:18am

sky news : tracer fire being reported. parachute flares.
electricity being cut off to parts of gaza.

troops and tanks moving up to the border.

reporter estimates that the ground forces will move in tonight.

299 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:10:04am

re: #255 sattv4u2

That would make an excellent name for a Porn Starlet/ MAssage "Therapist"

With respect, sir, ... (-: ... you are treading on VERY thin ice in disparaging that name.

300 realwest  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:10:15am

re: #226 Osama Bin Asshat
"it also happens to be the policy of Hamas, Iran and even Hezbollah."
Which is precisely why it is NOT THE LGF POLICY.

301 yma o hyd  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:10:16am

re: #278 Maximu§

Agree.
Not because I am a vet, but because it demeans the service all you vets have done for your and my country when liars try to cloak themselves with totally undeserved glory.

302 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:10:39am

re: #285 Osama Bin Asshat

Get a clue. He was being non specific, which equates to genocide. Anyone advocating that here quickly gets the boot, and before it descends a good mauling from the resident lizards.
If someone wants to advocate legitimate military tactics and strategy that's never frowned on here.

303 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:10:42am

re: #290 Dianna

Clearly, you are not the child of a Marine. Particularly not of the Korean era.

I am a child of a WW 2 sailor, and am well aware of who Lt. Gen Puller is, as well as his distinguished and long carrer

304 rwmofo  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:10:46am

Chesty Puller.

Wow. "...the most decorated Marine in history."

I didn't know this. No Chesty Puller jokes from me.

305 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:10:48am

While Israel is busy on the Gaza front, any one got anything recent about Syria/Lebanon/Hezbollah and Iran with it's nuclear program and Israel?

306 Venflon  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:10:50am

Thanks, Erik The Red, though personally I'm in a relatively safe area of the country.

re: #202 realwest

A very thoughtful comment. Thank you for that.
But it does lead, I think, to a fairly logical question: How does Israel insure that no rockets or mortars are ever fired on Israel again from Gaza if it doesn't use ground forces (and I am a Vietnam infantry combat grunt and am not looking forward to the IDF's "grunts" job either)?


Indeed, a very important question.
What *could* be a viable solution is deploying international forces in Gaza or at least along its border area with Egypt to decrease smuggling (Which I think the government is pursuing), going along with the assumption that Israel has regained its deterrence factor (If the IDF stops now while having the upper hand thus far) , I think it's safe to assume Hamas won't try firing rockets again, at least in the near future, hopefully until a more permanent agreement is achieved.

307 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:11:12am

re: #299 pre-Boomer Marine brat

see my 303

308 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:11:23am

re: #296 jcm

Northern Gaza Checkpoint in Google.

Oh, thank you! That's what I was looking for.

309 Erik The Red  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:11:32am

re: #285 Osama Bin Asshat

But war is about killing people. Is there a threshold number that the IDF needs to achieve, in terms of killing, and then back off? How do you differentiate Hamas from the average Palestinian? Remember, were talking about collectively the most dysfunctional peoples on Earth, with an average age of 17 that are completely indoctrinated against Israel.

So your answer is to kill them all? FOAD

310 Maximu§  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:11:33am

re: #291 alegrias

* * *
Hamas terrorists who have four wives and many children--whom they hold hostage to die on camera, or send off to be suicide bombers--are selfish pigs.

Children don't deserve to be used as jihad propaganda and jihad cannon fodder.

Using children in jihad is a WAR crime. Liberals ought to be ashamed of defending Hamas' right to abuse children thus.

The CNN coverage is dripping with sympathy for Hamas. Mosque's are being bombed, children are being hurt and there is a humanitarian crises going on.

311 jwb7605  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:12:00am

re: #297 irongrampa

Back in the day, when I used to frequent AOL political chat rooms, it was nearly a cottage industry exposing posers. Never could understand why people would do that. It's not a crime to have not served, that person's opinion is every bit as valid as a veteran.

Did you know John Kerry was in VietNam?
(Sometimes non-military opinions are even more valid!)

312 itellu3times  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:12:02am

re: #288 albusteve

I honestly think Gaza could be turned into some kind of free trade zone, maybe lure foreign money and get some recontruction and capitalism goin...we've discussed this for almost a week and few people think it would work...I do but local sentiment toward Islamofascism must change...can it is the question

This was the premise of the Camp David accords, that Arafat and the PA would be bribed and coopted into profitable peace.

Didn't work.

It is often the way of the world, people have to be dragged kicking and screaming into a better situation for themselves.

313 96RoadKing  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:12:10am

re: #283 rwmofo

Maybe he's a Salvation Army vet - or something.


He's 'something' alright!

314 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:12:11am

re: #290 Dianna

Clearly, you are not the child of a Marine. Particularly not of the Korean era.

Earlier. Puller was on Guadacanal and Peleliu.

315 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:12:20am

re: #298 buzzdroid

sky news : tracer fire being reported. parachute flares.
electricity being cut off to parts of gaza.

troops and tanks moving up to the border.

reporter estimates that the ground forces will move in tonight.

Does Hamas have night-vision thingies?

316 Osama Bin Asshat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:12:20am

re: #309 Erik The Red

So your answer is to kill them all? FOAD


How do you win then?

317 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:12:21am

re: #289 Nevergiveup

7 hours ahead

Ahead of where? I'm in CST... BMNT at Tel Aviv (Gaza City not listed) is 0415 local time...

318 avanti  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:12:22am

re: #70 Opinionated

Right. The cowards way.

But Obama is supposed to be a Superhero and Superheros can tell the good guys from the bad guys.

Obama's silence speaks volumes.

What should he say as President elect while Bush is at the helm ? He's already spoken out of Israels right to strike back when attracted. I have to believe that you would disapprove of any comments about upcoming policies before he has any real power. His silence does speak volumes. On this issue at least, he gets where the buck stops, and it's with our current President.

319 BakiShamil  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:13:01am

IDF and Israeli Navy must work together for ground assault...IDF should also try ground assault from the sea. Please stay united to protect our homeland. Please pray for save return of our soldiers from the battle. World will never learn from the past, thats why I urge jews and friends of Israel to unite behind IDF.

Israel, Jerusalem, Zion forever

320 buzzdroid  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:13:02am

lots of war protestors Hamasshole moonbat brownshirts on the streets of london today.

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

321 Dianna  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:13:02am

re: #299 pre-Boomer Marine brat

With respect, sir, ... (-: ... you are treading on VERY thin ice in disparaging that name.

Yes, but Satt's a good guy - he just isn't from the tradition.

322 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:13:05am
323 Erik The Red  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:13:34am

re: #297 irongrampa

Back in the day, when I used to frequent AOL political chat rooms, it was nearly a cottage industry exposing posers. Never could understand why people would do that. It's not a crime to have not served, that person's opinion is every bit as valid as a veteran.

Small dick complex.

324 yma o hyd  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:13:38am

re: #293 Killian Bundy

Well, now FOX flak jacket boy is reporting that Israeli infantry, in full combat gear, are moving ALONG the Gaza border.

/gimme a break, why would they be doing that, do they need PT, why aren't they mounted on vehicles?

Gawd - I bet he is soiling his pants on the one hand, and is panting to record gory details on the other.
Its sickening - that bloke should be recalled, as unfit for his job.

325 Dianna  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:13:46am

re: #303 sattv4u2

I am a child of a WW 2 sailor, and am well aware of who Lt. Gen Puller is, as well as his distinguished and long carrer

Great!

Please...be a little more careful.

326 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:13:52am

re: #315 MandyManners

Does Hamas have night-vision thingies?

Goggles.

327 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:14:09am

re: #307 sattv4u2

see my 303

Yeah. I did. You are forgiven.

/ ... :D ... my dad was "Old Corps"

328 irongrampa  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:14:13am

re: #311 jwb7605

I understand he also received 3 purple hearts.

329 CapeCoddah  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:14:16am

re: #36 Walter L. Newton

BBC reporter says bombing of pick up trucks with "missiles" were really oxygen tanks...

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

That oxygen tank did NOT take a direct missile hit. And their pics are sooo reliable.

330 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:14:17am

re: #304 rwmofo

Chesty Puller.

Wow. "...the most decorated Marine in history."

I didn't know this. No Chesty Puller jokes from me.

heh...awsome guy huh?

331 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:14:34am
332 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:14:37am

re: #322 ploome hineni

arrgggh!

333 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:14:43am

OT

Ha, Maisey the Parrot likes tomato soup. Just gave her some on a spoon, she was lapping away at it.

Ok, back to our regularly scheduled war coverage.

334 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:14:54am

re: #294 ploome hineni

eastern time + seven

8 pm

OK... that answers it... BMNT will be 2015 EST. Wish I knew how many hours of darkness are built into the initial operation.

5 pm EST would be midnight, if the staff planners were not very imaginative.

335 bj  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:15:11am

Shabbot (in Israel) is over so them tanks be rollin'. Mozel tov, go get 'em guys!

336 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:15:21am

re: #322 ploome hineni

no, but here is some helpful news

Report: Abbas to release hundreds of Hamas prisoners

I just read the transcript for GW's speech and he goes to denounce Hamas and yet give Abbas the pass...

Crazy times we live in.

337 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:15:26am

BBC falls for the gas canister story.....
Propaganda war: trusting what we see?

Israel has tried to take the initiative in the propaganda war over Gaza but, in one important instance, its version has been seriously challenged.

The incident raises the question of how to interpret video taken from the air.

Israel released video of an air attack on 28 December, which appeared to show rockets being loaded onto a truck. The truck and those close to it were then destroyed by a missile.
....
It turned out, however, that a 55-year-old Gaza resident named Ahmed Sanur, or Samur, claimed that the truck was his and that he and members of his family and his workers were moving oxygen cylinders from his workshop.
.....
The Israeli propaganda effort is being directed to achieve two main aims.

The first is to justify the air attacks. The second is to show that there is no humanitarian calamity in Gaza.

Of course BBC does no investigation or critical analysis. They just repeat the Paliwood claims.

338 Nevergiveup  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:15:29am

re: #317 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Ahead of where? I'm in CST... BMNT at Tel Aviv (Gaza City not listed) is 0415 local time...

EST--it is 1:20 pm here so it is 8:20 pm in Israel

339 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:15:32am

re: #321 Dianna

Yes, but Satt's a good guy - he just isn't from the tradition.

A very good guy.

340 Venflon  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:15:39am

re: #150 MJBrutus

What is Israel's longer term solution for this? I mean, they can't exterminate all the Pallies, vermin though they are. They can't move them all to some other place where they would be less of a threat. What do you do with a population of millions on your border who hate you more than they love their own children? What do you do with violent Jihadi savages who love death the way we love life?


Well said, I've been wondering that myself for a while now, maybe there just isn't a permanent solution?
There's work being done on obtaining defensive weapons to intercept those rockets, though then it's only a matter of time until they come up with something new..

341 realwest  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:15:41am

re: #230 jcm Yeah but jcm, really, how can you hope to even begin to "clean out Hamas" without doing a house by house search?
And even if you do, I'm pretty damn sure Israel doesn't want to occupy Gaza and doesn't want to station troops there on any kind of semi-permanent basis.
And, assuming that Venflon is correct about Hamas having mined all the roads (no doubt with those horrible tank killer mines Iran supplied to Hezbollah in '06) then what? I've never been there, but can Merkova tanks trundle across the desert there and avoid the roads? Without armor and close in air support (think Apache) house to house gets even bloodier and takes SO much longer.

342 Osama Bin Asshat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:15:46am

re: #331 ploome hineni

by talking to them, convincing them


Are you joking? Or do you mean after the IDF kicks ass up to the "kill threshold"?

343 Erik The Red  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:16:07am

re: #316 Osama Bin Asshat

How do you win then?

There is No win here. Everyone loses.

344 Reign of Witches  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:16:13am

I have always been disgusted by those who attempt to paint Israel as being at fault for defending herself... it has always been a battle between Israel's far superior military and the Palestinian tolerance of sacrificing women and children before the camera.

I think the entire country is stoned out of their minds right now, because the media's reflection of the reality out there is so twisted that it is now becoming quite fearful... like maybe even *normal* people might be convinced that Israel is at fault, and not just the moonbats.

May God protect the IDF and women and children of Gaza from the terrorists of Hamas.

345 buzzdroid  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:16:30am

re: #315 MandyManners

Does Hamas have night-vision thingies?

Hezbollah certainly have them - supplied by Iran.
so i wouldnt be surprised if Hamas also have them.

346 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:16:31am

re: #224 Emperor Norton

Gaza: 139 sq mi, Population (July 2007) 1,481,080
Philadelphia: 135 sq mi, Population (July 2007) 1,449,634

Frank Rizzo would have this mess cleaned up in no time.

Emperor -

Interesting comparison. I don't think, however, that Mayor Rizzo was facing too many people armed with AK's, RPG's, Mortars and Homemade Missiles. There lies the RUB.

-S-

347 Dianna  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:16:57am

re: #310 Maximu§

The CNN coverage is dripping with sympathy for Hamas. Mosque's are being bombed, children are being hurt and there is a humanitarian crises going on.

Unfortunately, Hamas chose it. When you choose an action, such as launching rockets at Israel, you choose the consequences of that action, such as a "humanitarian crisis".

I'm sorry for the kids, and anyone who just wanted to keep his or her head down and get on with his life. Sorry. I hope you make it and get a chance to do something decent with your life.

348 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:17:05am

re: #337 Killgore Trout

I claim that I'm Empress of the Universe. Will BBC report it?

349 Joo-LiZ  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:17:24am

[Link: www.theisraelproject.org...]

Graphic of the Injuries and Fatalities from Gazan rockets over the last 8 years.

While few Israeli's have been killed, this graphic shows that hundreds have been wounded.

350 viciouscircledammit  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:17:27am

re: #155 Walter L. Newton

It seems the kangaroo court here is being a little selective on what advocates violence and what does not. When rooting for Israel in this conflict, is that not indirectly advocating violence? When saying "finish the job" does that not advocate violence? When saying "crush Hamas" does that not advocate violence?

I think the intent of the rule lies more along the lines of making direct threats towards individuals. I don't know what's in Banner's heart, but I think you all pile on a little too swiftly around here. Now bring the downdings.

351 realwest  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:17:30am

re: #241 cincinnati_kid37
Who's a Hamas "commander" who's sitting at home?
(sorry for the late post but this thread is zooming along!).

352 96RoadKing  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:17:32am

re: #331 ploome hineni

by talking to them, convincing them


How do you 'talk to' and 'convince' a fanatic who's only objective in life is to eliminate those who don't believe the same thing?

353 Osama Bin Asshat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:17:38am

re: #343 Erik The Red

There is No win here. Everyone loses.

I guess you're right. So there is no solution? Ever?

354 jwb7605  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:18:15am

re: #319 BakiShamil

IDF and Israeli Navy must work together for ground assault...IDF should also try ground assault from the sea. Please stay united to protect our homeland. Please pray for save return of our soldiers from the battle. World will never learn from the past, thats why I urge jews and friends of Israel to unite behind IDF.

Israel, Jerusalem, Zion forever

Do the Israelis have Amphibious Assault Vehicles?
Believe it or don't, I have it on good authority that we used them taking out Saddam ... from the water. That was the group that stalled out for several hours assaulting the southeast part of Baghdad (the bridge was mined and they needed to cross the river and take out what was left of Saddam's forces), which means they will go over land, as well as stay on the beach.

355 Opinionated  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:18:15am

re: #318 avanti

What should he say as President elect while Bush is at the helm ?

Bush is making all sorts of Israel supporting statements.

There is no excuse for Obama to not associate himself with Bush's statements. [As he did when Bush bailed out the car companies]

In that way he supports the current Administration and indirectly supports Israel.

What does his silence say? That he doesn't support Bush and indirectly Israel?

That he is neutral -at best- between terrorists and Israel.

356 Maximu§  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:18:21am

re: #301 yma o hyd

Agree.
Not because I am a vet, but because it demeans the service all you vets have done for your and my country when liars try to cloak themselves with totally undeserved glory.

When I meet a vet face-to-face and we start talking "shop talk", its easy for me to verify that this person actually served, but online its not so easy. We see some people online saying "I'm a Vet", but their gonna have to provide some details of their service to fellow vets in here before we accept them as a brother (or sister).

357 alegrias  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:18:23am

re: #288 albusteve

I honestly think Gaza could be turned into some kind of free trade zone, maybe lure foreign money and get some recontruction and capitalism goin...we've discussed this for almost a week and few people think it would work...I do but local sentiment toward Islamofascism must change...can it is the question

* * *
Remember those great Gaza Greenhouses? The UN Quartet of geniuses "invested" your money in them, and the Gazans stripped & looted the "free" trade zone where they USED to work and used the copper pipes for pipe BOMBS.

Some "jihadist work" ethic.

358 jaunte  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:18:38am

re: #337 Killgore Trout

No word about what the Sanur's metalshop was welding.

359 Dianna  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:18:40am

re: #314 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Earlier. Puller was on Guadacanal and Peleliu.

I know - but my father was too young for that party. He was in Korea, and deeply admired Chesty Puller.

360 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:18:46am

re: #353 Osama Bin Asshat

I guess you're right. So there is no solution? Ever?

To paraphrase Golda Meir, the solution will come when they love their children more than they hate the Jews.

361 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:18:48am

re: #281 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

What time is it in Gaza and when is BMNT?

/Current local time in Jerusalem

362 rwmofo  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:18:54am

re: #315 MandyManners

Does Hamas have night-vision thingies?

If they do there probably isn't much time to reflect on the last (incoming) missile that they'll ever see.

363 Joo-LiZ  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:19:03am

re: #337 Killgore Trout

BBC falls for the gas canister story.....
Propaganda war: trusting what we see?

Of course BBC does no investigation or critical analysis. They just repeat the Paliwood claims.

But only on the terrorist side.

If it's an Israeli claim, they investigate, re-investigate, and then come up with at least three tin-hat conspiracy theories that show Israel is lying.

364 buzzdroid  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:19:10am

sky news - some arab guy is on now as a commentator saying OUTRIGHT LIES - that Hamas had a ceasefire and kept to their side of the deal.

utter bollocks did they do so. they kept launching rockets PLUS they declared all out Jihad on Israel about a week before Israel responded.

of course the dumb sky news presenter doesnt pick up on this.

365 sattv4u2  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:19:23am

re: #346 Dr. Shalit

Emperor -

Interesting comparison. I don't think, however, that Mayor Rizzo was facing too many people armed with AK's, RPG's, Mortars and Homemade Missiles. There lies the RUB.

-S-

You apparantly don't know Philly very well!

//

366 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:19:40am

re: #359 Dianna

I know - but my father was too young for that party. He was in Korea, and deeply admired Chesty Puller.

Wasn't Chesty also in the pre-war USMC in China?

367 yma o hyd  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:19:41am

re: #306 Venflon

Just want to thank you for your service - and thank you for your posts.

368 Airborn Swine  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:20:24am

re: #316 Osama Bin Asshat

This is the modern liberal version of warfare...you take a suitable number of casualties, declare victory, and come home. Actual killing of the enemy would indicate that this is indeed NOT a video game or an A-Team episode.

I repeat..."kill em all" is quite easily read as "kill every last terrorist soldier and leader" , which does NOT automatically include women, children, and household pets.

369 Erik The Red  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:20:24am

re: #350 viciouscircledammit

It seems the kangaroo court here is being a little selective on what advocates violence and what does not. When rooting for Israel in this conflict, is that not indirectly advocating violence? When saying "finish the job" does that not advocate violence? When saying "crush Hamas" does that not advocate violence?

I think the intent of the rule lies more along the lines of making direct threats towards individuals. I don't know what's in Banner's heart, but I think you all pile on a little too swiftly around here. Now bring the downdings.

Who the fuck are you calling a kangaroo court? The whole of LGF or just some of us?

370 Osama Bin Asshat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:20:26am

re: #350 viciouscircledammit

It seems the kangaroo court here is being a little selective on what advocates violence and what does not. When rooting for Israel in this conflict, is that not indirectly advocating violence? When saying "finish the job" does that not advocate violence? When saying "crush Hamas" does that not advocate violence?

Exactly my point...we have to be careful with moral equivalence. No one should promote genocide, but there is a lot of cheerleading going on where the result will be extreme violence against a group and individuals.

I think the intent of the rule lies more along the lines of making direct threats towards individuals. I don't know what's in Banner's heart, but I think you all pile on a little too swiftly around here. Now bring the downdings.

371 jcm  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:20:38am

re: #341 realwest

Yeah but jcm, really, how can you hope to even begin to "clean out Hamas" without doing a house by house search?
And even if you do, I'm pretty damn sure Israel doesn't want to occupy Gaza and doesn't want to station troops there on any kind of semi-permanent basis.
And, assuming that Venflon is correct about Hamas having mined all the roads (no doubt with those horrible tank killer mines Iran supplied to Hezbollah in '06) then what? I've never been there, but can Merkova tanks trundle across the desert there and avoid the roads? Without armor and close in air support (think Apache) house to house gets even bloodier and takes SO much longer.

No good options. But is has to be done, eliminate Hamas as an effective force, remove them from control. Then exert sufficient control to prevent any further attacks.

372 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:20:40am

re: #348 MandyManners

Only if you're also a Palestinian with photo "evidence".

373 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:21:21am

re: #350 viciouscircledammit

It seems the kangaroo court here is being a little selective on what advocates violence and what does not. When rooting for Israel in this conflict, is that not indirectly advocating violence? When saying "finish the job" does that not advocate violence? When saying "crush Hamas" does that not advocate violence?

I think the intent of the rule lies more along the lines of making direct threats towards individuals. I don't know what's in Banner's heart, but I think you all pile on a little too swiftly around here. Now bring the downdings.

As a aged Lizard, I can sum it up this way. Direct statements of violence to single person, no, no. Direct statement of violence to a whole group of people, as in ALL Palestinians, no, no.

As in IDF, go get Hamas. ok. They are enemy combatants.

374 Osama Bin Asshat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:21:24am

re: #360 MandyManners

To paraphrase Golda Meir, the solution will come when they love their children more than they hate the Jews.

Mandy... I love that quote, use it all the time in debate

375 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:21:26am
376 jwb7605  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:21:33am

re: #366 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Wasn't Chesty also in the pre-war USMC in China?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

377 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:21:44am

re: #359 Dianna

I know - but my father was too young for that party. He was in Korea, and deeply admired Chesty Puller.

I figured that from the way you worded your earlier comment. Did he make a career of the Corps after Korea?

378 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:21:57am

re: #350 viciouscircledammit

No, his problem is being non specific. Kill Bin laden is fine around here. Crush HAMAs is fine.

When you start using words like "all" without any indication of what that set includes, then you are just being stupid.

379 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:22:07am
380 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:22:08am

re: #358 jaunte

I suspect they're been watching his shop for quite some time.

381 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:22:10am

re: #355 Opinionated

Bush is making all sorts of Israel supporting statements.

There is no excuse for Obama to not associate himself with Bush's statements. [As he did when Bush bailed out the car companies]

In that way he supports the current Administration and indirectly supports Israel.

What does his silence say? That he doesn't support Bush and indirectly Israel?

That he is neutral -at best- between terrorists and Israel.

by not having a pricipled statement and by being an anti-Semite at heart he has boxed himself in...I love it

382 bj  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:22:35am
IDF Spokesperson January 3rd, 2009

Summary of Today's Events

Since the early morning hours the IDF has attacked over 40 targets in the Gaza Strip, all integral parts of the Hamas terror organization's
infrastructure, including a training camp, weaponry storage facility,
smuggling tunnel, an armed launcher and launching bases.

Also since the morning, terror groups have launched over 14 Qassam rockets and Grad missiles towards Israel. One Grad missile hit an apartment building in the city of Ashdod, wounding two Israelis. A short time after the attack IAF aircraft identified and destroyed the launchers used in the attack.

IAF aircraft struck the vehicle transporting senior Hamas commander Mohammed Ma'aruf and an additional Hamas operative in Khan Younis early Saturday afternoon. Ma'aruf was part of Hamas' military wing and served as an officer in the terror organization's ground forces.

The IDF will continue operating against the Hamas terror organization and its infrastructure in the Gaza Strip.

There was a call up of several thousand IDF reservists last week.

383 96RoadKing  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:22:47am

re: #364 buzzdroid

sky news - some arab guy is on now as a commentator saying OUTRIGHT LIES - that Hamas had a ceasefire and kept to their side of the deal.

utter bollocks did they do so. they kept launching rockets PLUS they declared all out Jihad on Israel about a week before Israel responded.

of course the dumb sky news presenter doesnt pick up on this.

The only reason Hamas will declare a ceasefire is because they're out of ammo and they need time to replenish!

384 Opinionated  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:22:48am

re: #360 MandyManners

To paraphrase Golda Meir, the solution will come when they love their children more than they hate the Jews.

Or in other words - and languages:

[Link: www.omniglot.com...]

385 Erik The Red  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:22:49am

re: #353 Osama Bin Asshat

I guess you're right. So there is no solution? Ever?

No there is no solution. The only solution is not acceptable to modern western values. It will not happen.

386 greenmiler  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:22:54am

My prayers are with the IDF,... as they get some!

387 Dianna  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:23:27am

re: #337 Killgore Trout

BBC falls for the gas canister story.....
Propaganda war: trusting what we see?

Of course BBC does no investigation or critical analysis. They just repeat the Paliwood claims.

To say nothing of the logical problems with that tale!

Why so many oxy tanks, and why were they so big? Why would you transfer oxy tanks from other trucks and put them in the pick-up? Oxygen is energetic, yes, but I don't believe it would have blown like that; I'm no expert, but that didn't look like an oxygen explosion.

And so on, and so forth.

388 buzzdroid  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:23:27am

re: #344 Reign of Witches

I have always been disgusted by those who attempt to paint Israel as being at fault for defending herself... it has always been a battle between Israel's far superior military and the Palestinian tolerance of sacrificing women and children before the camera.

I think the entire country is stoned out of their minds right now, because the media's reflection of the reality out there is so twisted that it is now becoming quite fearful... like maybe even *normal* people might be convinced that Israel is at fault, and not just the moonbats.

May God protect the IDF and women and children of Gaza from the terrorists of Hamas.

yup. that "stoned out of their minds" effect led directly to the first holocaust.

do you honestly think that ANY of the leftie moonbats in the MSM will shed a tear if Tel Aviv is NUKED by a HamasoNazi with a nuke supplied by Iran?

389 jaunte  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:23:38am

re: #380 Killgore Trout

You would think the BBC would ask what they did for a living, for the record.

390 realwest  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:23:53am

re: #297 irongrampa
You are correct. However to some of us veterans, claiming to be a veteran is a "crime". People who aren't vets certainly are entitled to their opinons and they should be given equal value (unless discussion is about something particularly and unusually military - like what's the killing range of a Claymore mine).

391 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:23:58am
392 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:24:03am

re: #364 buzzdroid

sky news - some arab guy is on now as a commentator saying OUTRIGHT LIES - that Hamas had a ceasefire and kept to their side of the deal.

utter bollocks did they do so. they kept launching rockets PLUS they declared all out Jihad on Israel about a week before Israel responded.

of course the dumb sky news presenter doesnt pick up on this.

And you realize that Sky news is owned by Murdock? Who also owns Fox, which should make it easy to understand that the mass media is only interested in profits, nothing more, nothing less, there is no "fair and balanced," it's what sells, that's all.

393 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:24:05am

Hot Air headlines.....
Do Israel pilots feel happy killing innocent women and children?

394 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:24:30am

re: #376 jwb7605

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Thanks... an amazing man.

395 jwb7605  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:24:57am

re: #388 buzzdroid

yup. that "stoned out of their minds" effect led directly to the first holocaust.

do you honestly think that ANY of the leftie moonbats in the MSM will shed a tear if Tel Aviv is NUKED by a HamasoNazi with a nuke supplied by Iran?

Depends on which way the wind blows after the blast.
/not kidding.

396 96RoadKing  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:25:32am

re: #379 ploome hineni

ask the monitor crowd here

I was being sarcastic


Then I stand corrected. It's sometimes hard to tell when someone is being sarcastic during a quick read.

397 alegrias  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:25:34am

re: #310 Maximu§

The CNN coverage is dripping with sympathy for Hamas. Mosque's are being bombed, children are being hurt and there is a humanitarian crises going on.

* * *
Why patronize propagandist CNN? Why buy Washington Post products Newsweak, etc.?

Last night I saw a rerun of Bill O'Reilly's interview with Ted Turner, CNN's founder--who admires Fidel Castro. Ted Turner ignored O'Reilly's factual statements that Fidel imprisoned & murdered people Fidel disagreed with, and Ted also claimed he didn't know much about the millions of Cambodians slaughtered by Fidel's fellow communist Pol Pot--while images of pyramids of thousands of skulls scrolled on screen.

Turner pretended not to know about the evil his "heroes" did because there wasn't much reporting about that evil. LIAR!

Lying CNN chooses sides and ignores facts and reality it disagrees with.

398 Benthoven  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:25:39am

re: #285 Osama Bin Asshat

But war is about killing people. Is there a threshold number that the IDF needs to achieve, in terms of killing, and then back off? How do you differentiate Hamas from the average Palestinian? Remember, were talking about collectively the most dysfunctional peoples on Earth, with an average age of 17 that are completely indoctrinated against Israel.

Yeah, there's my dilemma - we ALL KNOW the folly of trying to fight a LIMITED war - it always fails. The only historical examples of successful wars being fought that I can think of is when the enemy was killed in enough numbers and their stuff blown up in sufficient quantity as to extract their unconditional surrender. The victors DICTATE the terms under which they may continue to exist.

If Israel is to ever successfully defend itself for the long haul, how else could they conduct a war, other than to inflict sufficient damage on their enemies as to force their unconditional surrender? If I can't advocate for that here, then what's the alternative, other than advocating for more of the same half-assed tit-for-tat warfare, ad infinitum?

399 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:26:10am
400 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:26:10am

re: #385 Erik The Red

No there is no solution. The only solution is not acceptable to modern western values. It will not happen.

Product of painting ourselves into a corner. How true.

401 Osama Bin Asshat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:26:11am

re: #393 Killgore Trout

Hot Air headlines.....
Do Israel pilots feel happy killing innocent women and children?

Are Palestinian women innocent?

402 Opinionated  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:26:15am

re: #393 Killgore Trout

Looking at that picture I need to conclude that the......

Humanitarian Crises Diet

.....is not effective.

403 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:26:32am

re: #383 96RoadKing

The only reason Hamas will declare a ceasefire is because they're out of ammo and they need time to replenish!

not sure...they are not proven in a stand up fight...and the IDF is very very good at what they do....with all due respect toward Allah...spit...Hamas has to be shitting their pants right now

404 bj  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:26:43am

re: #350 viciouscircledammit

It seems the kangaroo court here is being a little selective on what advocates violence and what does not. When rooting for Israel in this conflict, is that not indirectly advocating violence? When saying "finish the job" does that not advocate violence? When saying "crush Hamas" does that not advocate violence?

I think the intent of the rule lies more along the lines of making direct threats towards individuals. I don't know what's in Banner's heart, but I think you all pile on a little too swiftly around here. Now bring the downdings.

You do realize that hamas is a terrorist organization, don't you, one that has vowed to kill all Jews and destroy Israel? Their charter has in writing to destroy Israel .. what is that inciting? Israelis are fighting for our very survival. It is not with a light heart that we say, "Never Again!".

405 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:26:46am

re: #387 Dianna

They also must have been magical oxygen tanks to survive a direct strike. Didn't dent them and barely wore off some yellow paint.

406 Westward Ho  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:26:59am

Sky reporting that IDF has started the ground invasion.

407 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:27:12am
408 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:27:29am

re: #393 Killgore Trout

Hot Air headlines.....
Do Israel pilots feel happy killing innocent women and children?

Another fine piece from the INN... Islamist News- Stringer Network...

/

409 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:27:33am

re: #350 viciouscircledammit

Easy, hatchling.

410 Dianna  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:27:35am

re: #366 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Wasn't Chesty also in the pre-war USMC in China?

I do believe so.

411 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:28:11am

re: #390 realwest

However to some of us veterans, claiming to be a veteran is a "crime".

For instance, I'm a Vietnam vet (carrier in the Tonkin Gulf, 63-66), who takes pains when appropriate to make it clear that I was never in-country. There are Vietnam vets ... and Vietnam vets.

/*salute* to you!

412 rwmofo  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:28:49am

re: #393 Killgore Trout

Hot Air headlines.....
Do Israel pilots feel happy killing innocent women and children?

It's 2009. So why am I still perplexed as to how this idiocy could be published in The Guardian as a news article?

413 alegrias  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:28:49am

re: #319 BakiShamil

IDF and Israeli Navy must work together for ground assault...IDF should also try ground assault from the sea. Please stay united to protect our homeland. Please pray for save return of our soldiers from the battle. World will never learn from the past, thats why I urge jews and friends of Israel to unite behind IDF.

Israel, Jerusalem, Zion forever

* * *
Amen, am praying for troops' safe return and victory against terrorists.

414 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:28:50am

re: #406 Westward Ho

Sky reporting that IDF has started the ground invasion.

Get in line.

/what news organization hasn't in the last three hours?

415 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:29:00am
416 jcm  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:29:07am

re: #350 viciouscircledammit

You're a noob. So listen up for some pointers.

Advocating genocide of the Palestinian people (or any group). NOT COOL, ever under any circumstances.

Advocating the crushing of our enemies. That's okay.
HOWEVER!

Under normal rules of war, I don't mean the PC rules. I mean you break their things and kill their people until they give up. While exercising due caution to avoid civilian casualties.

The wholesale mass slaughter is NOT OKAY. If they choose to fight to the death it's one thing.

This blog is under scrutiny. We need to be careful in what we say and how we say it.

Advocating a military victory and utter defeat for Hamas so they never function again is one thing. Saying kill everyone in Gaza is over the line.

Pay attention to how folks here, especially the ones who've been around awhile say things. They old lizards know how to do it.

417 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:29:11am

re: #398 Benthoven

... If I can't advocate for that here, then what's the alternative, other than advocating for more of the same half-assed tit-for-tat warfare, ad infinitum?

Look, there is nothing wrong with advocating that Israel beat Hamas, but some comments here this morning has been geared to killing ALL PALESTINIANS and that ALL PALESTINIANS are savages.

That's wrong, period. And if you don't like it, speak to Charles.

418 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:29:19am

re: #408 Thanos

Another fine piece from the INN... Islamist News- Stringer Network...

/

I dare the partriarchal Islamist Hamas apes to think through the consequences of firing rockets day in and out and how that will effect their women and children.

Oh, they already have and don't care what the consequences are.

Animals.

419 realwest  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:29:25am

re: #306 Venflon I do very much appreciate your insights but

going along with the assumption that Israel has regained its deterrence factor (If the IDF stops now while having the upper hand thus far)

doesn't seem to have stopped Hamas thus far (though it has GREATLY reduced the number of rockets).
And I'm concerned about the reports that Hamas has obtained significantly longer range rockets from Iran. Indeed, JPost,iirc, indicated that those missiles could reach Dimona.
I truly wish I had an answer - stopping the smuggling is MAYBE the most important thing Israel could do at this juncture.

420 jwb7605  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:29:25am

re: #411 pre-Boomer Marine brat

For instance, I'm a Vietnam vet (carrier in the Tonkin Gulf, 63-66), who takes pains when appropriate to make it clear that I was never in-country. There are Vietnam vets ... and Vietnam vets.

/*salute* to you!

That makes two of us, same "experience", same sentiment.

421 yma o hyd  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:29:44am

re: #389 jaunte

You would think the BBC would ask what they did for a living, for the record.

Oh no they wouldn't - that would be so patronising, and not taking proper account of their different cultural sensibilities!

/

422 Dianna  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:30:07am

re: #377 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I figured that from the way you worded your earlier comment. Did he make a career of the Corps after Korea?

No, but you know the rule: Once a Marine, always a Marine.

423 Venflon  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:30:08am

Local news is reporting the ground incursion has begun almost an hour ago, showing videos with nightvision.
I have a lot of friends currently deployed in the gaza parameter as medical teams, I'm hoping so bad they stay unemployed.

424 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:30:08am

CNN has a live stream of gaza. Nothing much going on.

425 realwest  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:30:10am

re: #311 jwb7605
ROFL! How true!

426 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:30:15am
427 Osama Bin Asshat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:30:15am

re: #398 Benthoven

Yeah, there's my dilemma - we ALL KNOW the folly of trying to fight a LIMITED war - it always fails. The only historical examples of successful wars being fought that I can think of is when the enemy was killed in enough numbers and their stuff blown up in sufficient quantity as to extract their unconditional surrender. The victors DICTATE the terms under which they may continue to exist.

If Israel is to ever successfully defend itself for the long haul, how else could they conduct a war, other than to inflict sufficient damage on their enemies as to force their unconditional surrender? If I can't advocate for that here, then what's the alternative, other than advocating for more of the same half-assed tit-for-tat warfare, ad infinitum?

My point exactly. We have to be careful with moral equivalence. Cheerleading for an IDF ground offensive is NOT promoting genocide, but the result could be catastrophic death of Palistinians, not just Hamas. Very difficult situation there, maybe impossible.

428 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:30:28am

re: #411 pre-Boomer Marine brat

For instance, I'm a Vietnam vet (carrier in the Tonkin Gulf, 63-66), who takes pains when appropriate to make it clear that I was never in-country. There are Vietnam vets ... and Vietnam vets.

/*salute* to you!

As a post-Nam kid, with a mission of personally welcoming home every Nam vet I run into...

Welcome home, buddy!

429 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:30:38am

re: #406 Westward Ho

Sky reporting that IDF has started the ground invasion.

WoooHA!

430 Killgore Trout  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:30:46am

re: #415 ploome hineni

Heh, good point.

431 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:30:52am

re: #401 Osama Bin Asshat

Are Palestinian women innocent?

Yes asshole, some are. Or do you know something we don't know. Once again you just group EVERYONE into one bucket. You are a bigot.

432 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:30:59am

re: #288 albusteve

I honestly think Gaza could be turned into some kind of free trade zone, maybe lure foreign money and get some recontruction and capitalism goin...we've discussed this for almost a week and few people think it would work...I do but local sentiment toward Islamofascism must change...can it is the question

albusteve -

Definitely, ever heard of the "JORDAN Q.I.Z.?" Levi Strauss, the clothing company, certainly has. To do it, you need a regime dedicated more to economics than revanchism. In that respect, HAMAS has been a total failure and therefore MUST GO before this is possible.

-S-

433 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:31:08am

re: #420 jwb7605

Don't think I got you...

Welcome Home!

434 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:31:10am

re: #384 Opinionated

Or in other words - and languages:

[Link: www.omniglot.com...]

I am sure there are parents in Gaza who do love their kids more than they hate Jews.

435 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:31:14am
436 jcm  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:31:28am

re: #393 Killgore Trout

Hot Air headlines.....
Do Israel pilots feel happy killing innocent women and children?

*spit*

IAF is going to great pains to avoid that. I've seen numbers to the effect 75% of the dead are Hamas terrorists. In crowded Gaza, where the terrorist intentionally blend in with civilians. That is an astonishing number!

437 rwmofo  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:31:31am

re: #427 Osama Bin Asshat

My point exactly. We have to be careful with moral equivalence. Cheerleading for an IDF ground offensive is NOT promoting genocide, but the result could be catastrophic death of Palistinians, not just Hamas. Very difficult situation there, maybe impossible.

War is hell, but the Israelis didn't start it.

438 Stacela  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:31:38am

Roseanne Barr called Israel a nazi state in Worldnetdaily.com and also in Jerusalem Post

439 jaunte  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:31:51am

re: #421 yma o hyd

It is curious the number of news reports that mention 'metal shops' in Gaza without any detail about what products they produce.

440 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:31:54am

re: #417 Walter L. Newton

Look, there is nothing wrong with advocating that Israel beat Hamas, but some comments here this morning has been geared to killing ALL PALESTINIANS and that ALL PALESTINIANS are savages.

That's wrong, period. And if you don't like it, speak to Charles.

one wonders why the distinction is so difficult to grasp...

441 yma o hyd  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:32:03am

re: #393 Killgore Trout

Hot Air headlines.....
Do Israel pilots feel happy killing innocent women and children?

Blydi 'eck!

Why does that idiot not ask if hamassholes feel happy trying to kill innocent Israeli women and children?

442 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:32:04am
443 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:32:48am

re: #442 ploome hineni

FOX ASSHOLES IDENTIFYING ISRAELI GROUND MOVEMENTS NOW

Which is why I hate the MSM. Nothing is sacred.

444 realwest  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:32:49am

re: #315 MandyManners
"thingies?" LOL! Well I don't know Mandy, but since they've apparently obtained some very sophisticated rockets (with a possible range to reach Dimona) I wouldn't be surprised if they did; I KNOW the IDF has them!

445 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:33:10am

re: #401 Osama Bin Asshat

Are Palestinian women innocent?

Some are. Some aren't. Merely possessing a uterus does not make you innocent.

446 jwb7605  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:33:33am

re: #439 jaunte

It is curious the number of news reports that mention 'metal shops' in Gaza without any detail about what products they produce.

130 mm lawn chair frames.

447 greenmiler  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:33:39am

re: #423 Venflon


Thanks for your service venflon

448 Maximu§  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:33:44am

re: #442 ploome hineni

FOX ASSHOLES IDENTIFYING ISRAELI GROUND MOVEMENTS NOW

Time for the IDF's to shut down these operations....loose lips sink ships.

449 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:33:45am

re: #438 Stacela

Roseanne Barr called Israel a nazi state in Worldnetdaily.com and also in Jerusalem Post

Fuck Roseanne. And, her candidate for president, McKinney.

450 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:33:51am

Finally, the embargo is off after three hours. The IDF has been inside Gaza all along.

/do the urban combat up right

451 realwest  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:33:55am

re: #319 BakiShamil
"Israel, Jerusalem, Zion forever"
Amen.

452 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:33:58am

re: #442 ploome hineni

FOX ASSHOLES IDENTIFYING ISRAELI GROUND MOVEMENTS NOW

And why not. Fox News, Sky News, New York Post, The SUn and so on, all owned by Murdock.

You can't trust big media period.

453 Dianna  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:34:10am

re: #405 Killgore Trout

They also must have been magical oxygen tanks to survive a direct strike. Didn't dent them and barely wore off some yellow paint.

I missed that aspect!

You're right; that's...egregious. Even by BBC standards.

454 BigDog  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:34:22am

Fox says they've crossed the border

Get some, IDF!

455 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:34:35am

Let's pray for the IDF and the children. Oh, dear Lord, the children.

456 jaunte  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:34:42am

re: #446 jwb7605

130 mm lawn chair frames.

Sewer pipe recycling.

457 rwmofo  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:34:59am

re: #438 Stacela

Roseanne Barr called Israel a nazi state in Worldnetdaily.com and also in Jerusalem Post

Yawn.

458 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:35:13am

re: #432 Dr. Shalit

albusteve -

Definitely, ever heard of the "JORDAN Q.I.Z.?" Levi Strauss, the clothing company, certainly has. To do it, you need a regime dedicated more to economics than revanchism. In that respect, HAMAS has been a total failure and therefore MUST GO before this is possible.

-S-

of course...that's presumed...and all firearms as well....gonna be a fun place!...fireworks and unicorn rides!...just need to convince the Gazans they have to work to eat...

459 realwest  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:35:20am

re: #326 MandyManners
And tank firing sights as well.

461 Teacake!  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:35:41am

Roseanne is a psychotic narcissistic bitch who thinks she is the expert on Kaballah and has been a self hating Jew for years.

She used to have a blog a few years back and man did she hate me! LOL

462 bj  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:35:43am

Your text to link...

463 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:35:45am

re: #428 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

As a post-Nam kid, with a mission of personally welcoming home every Nam vet I run into...

Welcome home, buddy!

Thank you, sir.
And thanks VERY much to you for your service.

464 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:35:47am

re: #438 Stacela

Roseanne Barr called Israel a nazi state in Worldnetdaily.com and also in Jerusalem Post

Well, nuts do come from a nut tree. Fruit come from a fruit tree.

Roseanne appears to be a whole orchard.

465 Venflon  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:36:02am

Thanks for your kind words yma o hyd .
re: #419 realwest

I do very much appreciate your insights but

doesn't seem to have stopped Hamas thus far (though it has GREATLY reduced the number of rockets).


Indeed, though I meant that IDF has the upper hand now and can negotiate a cease fire in its own terms.
And AFTER the cease fire takes place, that's when I meant Hamas will think 10 times before starting this again. No one's expecting them to stop firing rockets while the combat is ongoing.
But of course, that's not a permanent solution.

466 Maximu§  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:36:09am

Good Hunting to the IDF's.

467 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:36:13am

re: #435 ploome hineni

HAMAS, THE JIHADIS

LOVE

DEATH

we'll see....

468 Osama Bin Asshat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:36:27am

re: #431 Walter L. Newton

Yes asshole, some are. Or do you know something we don't know. Once again you just group EVERYONE into one bucket. You are a bigot.

I was alluding to female suicide bombers...sorry I didn't specify that...you need to chill buddy.

469 itellu3times  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:36:45am

KFWB radio reporting Israeli ground troops in Gaza.

And I still cannot figure out why. Just because, I guess.

470 Killian Bundy  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:37:16am

re: #442 ploome hineni

FOX ASSHOLES IDENTIFYING ISRAELI GROUND MOVEMENTS NOW

/no they're not, they're just stating, in generic terms, what everyone's already known for hours now, there's no [expletive deleted] maps involved

471 realwest  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:37:26am

re: #355 Opinionated
Hello my friend - what do you think of the second part of my #238 above?

472 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:37:27am

BREAKING:

Sean Penn spotted on the ground fighting for Hamas.

/sarc

473 notutopia  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:37:42am

re: #393 Killgore Trout

Hot Air headlines.....
Do Israel pilots feel happy killing innocent women and children?


This Guardianuk reporter/editor can go suck donkey dicks!

Do Israel pilots feel happy killing innocent women and children?
A Palestinian in Gaza chronicles life under Israeli bombardment

**SPIT**

474 Joo-LiZ  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:37:59am

re: #465 Venflon

Thanks for your kind words yma o hyd .

Indeed, though I meant that IDF has the upper hand now and can negotiate a cease fire in its own terms.
And AFTER the cease fire takes place, that's when I meant Hamas will think 10 times before starting this again. No one's expecting them to stop firing rockets while the combat is ongoing.
But of course, that's not a permanent solution.

My concern is that that won't bring an end.

There will be peace and quiet, maybe for a month, maybe half a year. Once Hamas has rebuilt with the foreign aid that will pour in, they will fire three rockets. Just a test run. Blame it on some uncontrollable other terrorist group. Israel won't respond for fear of international backlash, and the cycle repeats itself.

475 Dr. Shalit  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:38:03am

re: #365 sattv4u2

You apparantly don't know Philly very well!

//

satt4 -

Notice that I said "too many" - not NONE. Philly is a tough town for sure, AND I also don't see a "DizzyDean Martyrs" militia in control of the Police Force.

-S-

476 avanti  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:38:08am

re: #355 Opinionated

Bush is making all sorts of Israel supporting statements.

There is no excuse for Obama to not associate himself with Bush's statements. [As he did when Bush bailed out the car companies]

In that way he supports the current Administration and indirectly supports Israel.

What does his silence say? That he doesn't support Bush and indirectly Israel?

That he is neutral -at best- between terrorists and Israel.

I agree, that it certainly the perception since both the Arab's and the Israelis want him to take a stand and are disappointed with his silence. He's made pro Israeli statements during the campaign, but nothing since the current conflict began.
His advisers may be being too pragmatic by wanting him to not muddy the waters by appearing to lean too far to one side or the other. Personally, I don't think he can a avoid at least a general statement of support for the President without seeming to make new policy even if that makes it more difficult to appear as a honest broker for peace later.

477 Jetpilot1101  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:38:10am

re: #472 Oh no...Sand People!

BREAKING:

Sean Penn spotted on the ground fighting for Hamas.

/sarc

Cindy Sheehan and Cynthia McKinney were spotted in close proximity.

478 Dianna  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:38:31am

re: #435 ploome hineni

HAMAS, THE JIHADIS

LOVE

DEATH

Do they, or do they just love to say that?

I ask because I keep noticing a distinct diminution in their enthusiasm whenever the bombs start dropping and the bullets begin to fly.

479 jwb7605  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:38:51am

re: #470 Killian Bundy

/no they're not, they're just stating, in generic terms, what everyone's already known for hours now, there's no [expletive deleted] maps involved

They need to get Geraldo to draw maps in the dirt.
(and Sean Penn in a fourteen-foot flatbottom boat would be nice ...)

480 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:39:06am

re: #468 Osama Bin Asshat

I was alluding to female suicide bombers...sorry I didn't specify that...you need to chill buddy.

try to remember to be specific....

481 yma o hyd  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:39:16am

re: #423 Venflon

Our thoughts and prayers are with Israel, with your friends in the IDF and all your brave soldiers.

Lets hope your friends in the medical service are indeed not being needed tonight!

{Venflon}

482 Dianna  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:39:24am

re: #438 Stacela

Roseanne Barr called Israel a nazi state in Worldnetdaily.com and also in Jerusalem Post

Roseanne needs to spend some time in Gaza.

483 jcm  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:39:31am

re: #455 MandyManners

Let's pray for the IDF and the children. Oh, dear Lord, the children.

If Israel can control Gaza, the children will stop dying. On both sides.
As long as Hamas is in charge they will sacrifice their children and seek to kill the Jewish children.

484 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:39:34am
485 itellu3times  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:39:35am

re: #474 Joo-LiZ

My concern is that that won't bring an end.

There will be peace and quiet, maybe for a month, maybe half a year. Once Hamas has rebuilt with the foreign aid that will pour in, they will fire three rockets. Just a test run. Blame it on some uncontrollable other terrorist group. Israel won't respond for fear of international backlash, and the cycle repeats itself.

Y'know, I saw several video reports on the news over the last day or so of missiles launching, supposedly kassams or whatever. At least one, looked to me like it was going to impact within fifty yards of launch.

Says a lot about the mentality involved.

486 bj  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:39:36am

re: #472 Oh no...Sand People!

BREAKING:

Sean Penn spotted on the ground fighting for Hamas.

/sarc

Oopsie, I thought he was the hamas-leader-in-hiding ....

487 realwest  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:39:41am

re: #373 Walter L. Newton
Well said, Walter!

488 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:39:50am

re: #468 Osama Bin Asshat

I was alluding to female suicide bombers...sorry I didn't specify that...you need to chill buddy.

Then be more careful with your comments. Do you know why Charles' doesn't like that kind of blanket statements made here? Because there are lurkers here that just love to clip and paste and link to statements that make LGF sound like KOS or any of the other extreme blogs.

So, we make a concerted effort to be careful that our statements don't come across the wrong way.

If we are being sarcastic, normally we end a comment with a forward slash "/" or "/s" or "/sarcasm" or something in the statement itself explains that it is a satirical comment.

Now, do you understand?

489 Jetpilot1101  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:39:59am

re: #478 Dianna

Do they, or do they just love to say that?

I ask because I keep noticing a distinct diminution in their enthusiasm whenever the bombs start dropping and the bullets begin to fly.

That's because they are used to fighting with rocks, TV cameras and a platoon of useful idiots. When real weapons are involved, they don't have a clue what to do.

490 Joo-LiZ  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:40:16am

re: #473 notutopia

This Guardianuk reporter/editor can go suck donkey dicks!

Do Israel pilots feel happy killing innocent women and children?
A Palestinian in Gaza chronicles life under Israeli bombardment

**SPIT**

It's only echoing Gideon Levy at Ha'aretz.

That guy is 100% a self-hating jew. He wrote two articles that I saw, one was the "neighbourhood bully" one, and the other was one on the IAF pilots being soulless bastards.

Everytime I mention neighbourhood bully, I just have to link to this Bob Dylan song: "Neighbourhood Bully"

Youtube Video
491 alegrias  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:40:23am

re: #452 Walter L. Newton

And why not. Fox News, Sky News, New York Post, The SUn and so on, all owned by Murdock.

You can't trust big media period.

* * *
Sorry Walter, gotta disagree with you.

Rupert Murdoch's dad was either an honorable soldier or war reporter in the Crimean or other wars, I think. Murdoch was as courageous as David against Goliath to take on the liberal, US-hating networks head to head and start his own network, Fox News.

Murdoch ain't no CNN creature like its founder Ted Turner who loves Castro, HugoChavez, Jihadists and their "progressive" apologists.

492 Dianna  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:40:37am

re: #441 yma o hyd

Blydi 'eck!

Why does that idiot not ask if hamassholes feel happy trying to kill innocent Israeli women and children?

Um...because the answer is obvious?

493 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:41:15am

re: #461 Teacake!

Roseanne is a psychotic narcissistic bitch who thinks she is the expert on Kaballah and has been a self hating Jew for years.

She used to have a blog a few years back and man did she hate me! LOL

She still has a blog. I linked to it a while back.

494 marsl  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:41:26am

re: #477 Jetpilot1101

Cindy Sheehan and Cynthia McKinney were spotted in close proximity.

What Cindy and Cybthia are:
Options:
1. Hamas members
2. Human shields
3. Useful idiots
4. Just running away from the 7th century barbarians asking for the IDF to rescue them?

495 undhimmicratic  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:41:29am

The ground operation has begun [Link: www.jpost.com...]

496 buzzdroid  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:41:35am

re: #406 Westward Ho

Sky reporting that IDF has started the ground invasion.

as in tanks/troops moving from their jump off assembly points?

dear God.. if true , my prayers and thoughts are with them all.

Godspeed IDF - and give them HELL!

497 filetandrelease  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:41:50am

re: #238 realwest

That's the million dollar question, isn't it. I honestly don't have an answer to that, but sure wish I did.
.
.
.
.
BTW - do any of y'all think that if President Elect Obama made a clear, unequivocal statement of support of Israel TODAY, it might well reshape both the MSM coverage of this war and indeed the "world opinion" being currently voiced?

It might, but IMO the reason BO has not made a statement is that he does not want to contradict a sitting president.

498 itellu3times  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:41:53am

re: #492 Dianna

Um...because the answer is obvious?

And the counter-answers are obvious, too - the Islamic position is that there are no innocent Israelis. You do the math.

499 Alberta Oil Peon  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:42:01am

re: #161 albusteve

I'm pretty much all talked out about it but....colonize Gaza and retain total control of the people and the borders...it's going to be Israels problem....there is no other way to protect herself from any other corrupt overloards

I think that is the only answer. Like it or not, Israel will have to take complete control of Gaza, and run it as a giant prison camp, at least for a while. And they will have to weed out the Hamasniks, the Wahabbist and Salafist Imams, and the perverted school teachers, and the propagandists for Jihad. And they will have to provide some sort of benign nationalist structure for a future free Gaza. They have to break the cycle of hatred, which means raising at least one generation of children that aren't indoctrinated with hatred in the schools.

Sure, the "international community" will protest. But when do they not protest anything that Israel does?

500 Joo-LiZ  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:42:04am

Venflon;

Sorry if I missed it earlier, but I can't find it in this thread.

What service is everyone thanking you for?

I appreciate the updates.

501 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:42:04am
502 SaneInMN  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:42:13am

Can the West, waging 21st century warfare, abiding by complicated ROE's and international conventions, providing aid to its enemies during battle, win against a 7th century opponent who follows no rules? Not a ceasefire, not a DMZ, but an actual victory? For ex., we have crushed Al-Qaeda and other terrorists in Iraq, and we win every battle with the Taliban/Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. The Israelis surely can decimate HAMAS, but what is victory? I wonder if the West must start walling off large sections of the world (figuratively and literally) and simply stay on guard. Unfortunately, the posters who believe WWII is irrelevant when discussing the wars we face today have a point. What wars have the US decisively won? WWII and the Civil War. (No, we had to beat the British twice in order to kick them out for good). What do WWII and the Civil War have in common? Total war, total destruction, horrible death, unbelievable human suffering, but a better world in the end. But that raises the question of who/what would the West wage "total war" against, even if the will where there to do so?

503 Fearless Fred  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:42:21am

Israel Shells Gaza and Drops Leaflets, Seemingly to Prepare for a Ground Offensive
The Israeli Army also dropped thousands of leaflets into some residential districts warning inhabitants to evacuate their homes. Because of “the activity of terrorist groups,” the leaflets said in Arabic, the army “is obliged to respond quickly and work from inside your residential area.”
~NYT

Hmm, so not quite resorting to Banner's suggestion quite yet.

504 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:42:26am

re: #491 alegrias

* * *
Sorry Walter, gotta disagree with you.

Rupert Murdoch's dad was either an honorable soldier or war reporter in the Crimean or other wars, I think. Murdoch was as courageous as David against Goliath to take on the liberal, US-hating networks head to head and start his own network, Fox News.

Murdoch ain't no CNN creature like its founder Ted Turner who loves Castro, HugoChavez, Jihadists and their "progressive" apologists.

And 49 percent of Fox is owned by an Arab.

505 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:42:55am

re: #483 jcm

If Israel can control Gaza, the children will stop dying. On both sides.
As long as Hamas is in charge they will sacrifice their children and seek to kill the Jewish children.

Does Israel want to govern Gaza?

506 Joo-LiZ  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:43:01am

re: #500 Joo-LiZ

Venflon;

Sorry if I missed it earlier, but I can't find it in this thread.

What service is everyone thanking you for?

I appreciate the updates.

Nevermind, just clicked the avatar... combat medic.

I'll echo everyone else; thanks for your hardwork and please stay safe!

507 realwest  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:43:14am

re: #393 Killgore Trout
Yeah, and written by "Fida Qishta is a freelance Palestinian television producer and writer based in Gaza's southern township of Rafah"
Why the fuck would Hot Air publish that?

508 buzzdroid  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:44:25am

re: #461 Teacake!

Roseanne is a psychotic narcissistic bitch who thinks she is the expert on Kaballah and has been a self hating Jew for years.

She used to have a blog a few years back and man did she hate me! LOL

Roseanne Barr is carved from the same "self hating Jew" tree that DIRECTLY led to the extermination of 6 million Jews in WW2.

thank God for the Zionists.

509 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:44:27am

re: #499 Alberta Oil Peon

I think that is the only answer. Like it or not, Israel will have to take complete control of Gaza, and run it as a giant prison camp, at least for a while. And they will have to weed out the Hamasniks, the Wahabbist and Salafist Imams, and the perverted school teachers, and the propagandists for Jihad. And they will have to provide some sort of benign nationalist structure for a future free Gaza. They have to break the cycle of hatred, which means raising at least one generation of children that aren't indoctrinated with hatred in the schools.

Sure, the "international community" will protest. But when do they not protest anything that Israel does?

well said...need to think positive...I have great admiration for Israel and believe they can pull something like this off....who could complain and why?

510 Venflon  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:44:29am

re: #474 Joo-LiZ

My concern is that that won't bring an end.

There will be peace and quiet, maybe for a month, maybe half a year. Once Hamas has rebuilt with the foreign aid that will pour in, they will fire three rockets. Just a test run. Blame it on some uncontrollable other terrorist group. Israel won't respond for fear of international backlash, and the cycle repeats itself.


Absolutely, which is why I mentioned the need for some kind of international force in gaza or atleast on the border passage with Egypt, make the smuggling of weapons much harder. but of course that's only buying time.
Do you have any ideas for a viable permanent solution?

511 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:44:33am

FNC: It's On.

God bless the IDF.

512 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:44:39am
513 realwest  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:44:40am

re: #399 Iron Fist
Very well said my friend.

514 itellu3times  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:44:41am

My browser just sensed a disturbance in the force, someone must have been deleted up north.

515 manker  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:44:42am

UPDATE:

ISRAELI TROOPS HAVE ENTERED GAZA

516 alegrias  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:44:49am

re: #472 Oh no...Sand People!

BREAKING:

Sean Penn spotted on the ground fighting for Hamas.

/sarc

* * * *
Sean Penn's buddy Ahmedinejad and US-ally Iraqi President Al Maliki, however, are spotted in Tehran calling Israel criminals.

May Al Maliki get the shoe assault treatment & be toppled by a better, pro-Israeli Iraqi someday.

Yes, at some point 30% of Iraq was jewish Iraqis. Read that somewhere...

517 deeedo  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:44:49am

Invasion started.

518 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:44:58am

A throw-out on Chesty Puller (from memory, so I might be wrong on details)

Puller commanded the First Marines at Peleliu -- first wave, at the end of White Beach closest to The Point. (The most decorated Marine commanding the most decorated Regiment.) A company of the First Marines took and held The Point, though cut off for a day and a half and down to about 60 effectives at the end of that time. The rest of the regiment repulsed a major Japanese counter-attack during that period, one in which two-dozen-or-so Japanese tanks took part. The regiment was pulled out of action after 5 days on Peleliu because of its severe losses.

519 Osama Bin Asshat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:45:02am

re: #488 Walter L. Newton

Then be more careful with your comments. Do you know why Charles' doesn't like that kind of blanket statements made here? Because there are lurkers here that just love to clip and paste and link to statements that make LGF sound like KOS or any of the other extreme blogs.

So, we make a concerted effort to be careful that our statements don't come across the wrong way.

If we are being sarcastic, normally we end a comment with a forward slash "/" or "/s" or "/sarcasm" or something in the statement itself explains that it is a satirical comment.

Now, do you understand?

Ya, sorry, I assumed people would be able to infer from my comment...but I guess I'd be overestimating a moonbat.

520 jcm  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:45:16am

re: #484 Iron Fist

We I say give up, I mean the unconditional surrender type of give up.
And agreed any member of Hamas who does surrender should not see daylight again.

Any Hamas in active contact don't get the option.

They have to walk out in their skivvies to get the surrender option.

521 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:45:27am

re: #507 realwest

Yeah, and written by "Fida Qishta is a freelance Palestinian television producer and writer based in Gaza's southern township of Rafah"
Why the fuck would Hot Air publish that?

They didn't publish it, it's in their headlines section. Just like you see moonbat articles in spinoffs here sometimes.

522 Walter L. Newton  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:45:41am

re: #514 itellu3times

My browser just sensed a disturbance in the force, someone must have been deleted up north.

Who?

523 akak  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:45:45am

re: #504 Walter L. Newton

And 49 percent of Fox is owned by an Arab.

The other portion just does propaganda such as Hamas rocket video's.

524 DIZZY26  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:45:45am

re: #365 sattv4u2

You apparantly don't know Philly very well!

//

ROTFLMAO!

525 LC LaWedgie  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:45:48am

re: #438 Stacela

The shallow reasoning on the lefty part must be that they consider the whole thing a tv script. Next they'll dream Jimmah Carter out there with a bullhorn directing Hamas to victory -- a Nobel Prize-winning performance for the Screen Actor's Guild to savor.

526 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:45:53am

re: #508 buzzdroid

Roseanne Barr is carved from the same "self hating Jew" tree that DIRECTLY led to the extermination of 6 million Jews in WW2.

thank God for the Zionists.

I did not know that woman was Jewish....well

527 realwest  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:46:22am

re: #416 jcm YOU TELL 'EM jcm! Very well said!

528 buzzdroid  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:46:23am

re: #502 SaneInMN

Can the West, waging 21st century warfare, abiding by complicated ROE's and international conventions, providing aid to its enemies during battle, win against a 7th century opponent who follows no rules? Not a ceasefire, not a DMZ, but an actual victory? For ex., we have crushed Al-Qaeda and other terrorists in Iraq, and we win every battle with the Taliban/Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan. The Israelis surely can decimate HAMAS, but what is victory? I wonder if the West must start walling off large sections of the world (figuratively and literally) and simply stay on guard.

one example - the Paris-Dakkar rally.

This year its being held in South America, cos last year Islamists threatened to kidnap and kill the drivers.

529 Jetpilot1101  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:46:29am

re: #501 Osama Bin Asshat

That is a lot of killing!

Sometimes you got to do what the Romans did to Carthage in the Punic Wars. Sometimes the only way to combat evil is to utterly destroy it. I wouldn't indiscriminately kill everyone in Gaza but I think that given enough resources, Mossad could make it quite profitable for innocent Gazans to ensure they stay alive and the cowardly terrorists in the next apartment over has a meeting with allah arranged.

530 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:46:35am

re: #520 jcm

We I say give up, I mean the unconditional surrender type of give up.
And agreed any member of Hamas who does surrender should not see daylight again.

Any Hamas in active contact don't get the option.

They have to walk out in their skivvies to get the surrender option.

I was with you until the last one... do we really need to see these fat bastards in their torn and stained skivvies?

Yuck.

531 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:46:36am

re: #519 Osama Bin Asshat

Remember: Everything you say can and will be used against Charles. That's why he gets to delete comments and ban users.

532 Truck Monkey  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:46:49am

re: #438 Stacela

Roseanne Barr called Israel a nazi state in Worldnetdaily.com and also in Jerusalem Post

Well that settles it then.

/

533 buzzdroid  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:47:02am

re: #515 manker

UPDATE:

ISRAELI TROOPS HAVE ENTERED GAZA

God Bless the IDF!

Give them hell!

534 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:47:13am

re: #477 Jetpilot1101

Cindy Sheehan and Cynthia McKinney were spotted in close proximity.

Hopefully, that's the flat-out truth!

/this way to the bulldozer, ladies

535 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:47:26am

/invasion thread upstairs

/invasion thread upstairs

536 itellu3times  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:47:36am

re: #522 Walter L. Newton

Who?

I dunno, ... maybe #484?

537 quickjustice  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:47:37am

re: #393 Killgore Trout

A: No, it's the crews servicing the rockets directed at Israeli population centers that Israeli pilots feel great about killing! ;-) It's tantamount to an execution using military, rather than judicial, means. It's what we did, or tried to do, to Al Qaeda.

Hamas and Hezbollah have deliberately blurred the distinction between "military" and "civilian" in warfare. That distinction was created by European diplomats during the seventeenth century. If extremist Muslims didn't want women and children harmed, they'd play by the same rules. They don't.

Harm to their women and children is exploited by Hamas by holding the West to its own moral standards. Hamas doesn't share those standards. Hence the dilemma.

538 Joo-LiZ  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:47:46am

re: #510 Venflon

Absolutely, which is why I mentioned the need for some kind of international force in gaza or atleast on the border passage with Egypt, make the smuggling of weapons much harder. but of course that's only buying time.
Do you have any ideas for a viable permanent solution?

I guess that's everyone's problem isn't it? No good solutions. I wouldn't trust an international force. They would turn into another UNIFIL or UNRWA.

It is just so frustrating because I think we all wish the Palestinians could monitor themselves! If only they had the leadership and willpower to give themselves a good life!

539 MandyManners  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:47:58am
Youtube Video
540 Flying Dutchman  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:48:11am

Ground troops move into Gaza

541 alegrias  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:48:35am

re: #504 Walter L. Newton

And 49 percent of Fox is owned by an Arab.

* * * *
Not that there's anything wrong with that, you Bigot! (sarc)

542 Osama Bin Asshat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:48:37am

re: #531 E
mmmieG

Remember: Everything you say can and will be used against Charles. That's why he gets to delete comments and ban users.

Good point....while were on the topic of the media being used against us. Can we drop the Rosanne Barr talk, is she really relevent? This is serious shit!

543 Airborn Swine  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:48:37am

re: #504 Walter L. Newton

And 49 percent of Fox is owned by an Arab.

You sir are a bigot. Not all Arabs are enemy combatants, or even enemies. How dare you imply otherwise. Or were you being sarcasistic ?

We typically indicate such by using /, or a /s, or a /sarc.

Now do you understand ?

544 yma o hyd  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:49:05am

israellycool is back online, and confirms the ground incursion.

The Beeb said earlier that there was a three-hour news black-out imposed by the IDF - and that the IDF has gone into North Gaza to take the rocket-launching positions from the hamassholes.

545 Oh no...Sand People!  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:49:26am

re: #516 alegrias

* * * *
Sean Penn's buddy Ahmedinejad and US-ally Iraqi President Al Maliki, however, are spotted in Tehran calling Israel criminals.

May Al Maliki get the shoe assault treatment & be toppled by a better, pro-Israeli Iraqi someday.

Yes, at some point 30% of Iraq was jewish Iraqis. Read that somewhere...

The Israeli's have steel in their spines. Being surrounded on ALL sides by those who want genocide and time and again taking all they dish out and rising above it.

Amazing. They are a light in the darkness and the world can't comprehend it.

546 realwest  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:49:43am

re: #438 Stacela
Who gives a shit what Rosanne Barr says about anything? Really, she's nothing but an uniformed Anti-Semite.

547 jcm  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:49:43am

re: #505 MandyManners

Does Israel want to govern Gaza?

I don't see an option frankly. Like it not, they are the only rational players in this game.

The Palis of Gaza are not capable of self rule at this point. The elected Hamas, and got this thing rolling. Egypt not willing and won't exert the needed control. Israel has it's own security at stake.

Israel pulled out, hoping for the best. Didn't work out. Gaza should cease as a separate entity. The government started a war, and will lose. Tough shit.

I'm all ears if anyone else has a scenario that secures Israel's security while they don't occupy and control Gaza.

548 Westward Ho  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:49:52am

re: #496 buzzdroid


Israeli defence spokeswomen confirming the operation.

549 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:50:12am

re: #542 Osama Bin Asshat

Well, making fun of some people is shooting fish in a barrel (See: McKinney, Cynthia).

As I have said before, the collective sense of humor of manking is all that keeps us sane.

That said, it is a serious time.

550 Flying Dutchman  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:50:14am

GO IDF !

Root out this terrorist bastards !

551 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:50:26am

re: #545 Oh no...Sand People!

The Israeli's have steel in their spines. Being surrounded on ALL sides by those who want genocide and time and again taking all they dish out and rising above it.

Amazing. They are a light in the darkness and the world can't comprehend it.

just to be blunt...the world cant comprehend jack shit

552 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:50:34am

JPost is talking about a limited operation, against rocket launching sites in the north.

553 alexknyc  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:50:54am

re: #50 Fearless Fred

MSM keeps telling me "Bush says Israel does have the right to defend itself".
What type BS is that? I really don't get their agenda with that retarded statement. Why would anyone question whether they have the right?

Because it's the Jooooooos.

And all too often, anti-Israel really means anti-Semitic.

554 jcm  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:51:00am

re: #530 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

I was with you until the last one... do we really need to see these fat bastards in their torn and stained skivvies?

Yuck.

ROFL.

555 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:51:06am

Ack. Sorry. Mankind. I really can spell, I promise.

556 Erik The Red  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:51:10am

re: #499 Alberta Oil Peon

I think that is the only answer. Like it or not, Israel will have to take complete control of Gaza, and run it as a giant prison camp, at least for a while. And they will have to weed out the Hamasniks, the Wahabbist and Salafist Imams, and the perverted school teachers, and the propagandists for Jihad. And they will have to provide some sort of benign nationalist structure for a future free Gaza. They have to break the cycle of hatred, which means raising at least one generation of children that aren't indoctrinated with hatred in the schools.

Sure, the "international community" will protest. But when do they not protest anything that Israel does?

Great dream. Wake up that will never happen. I sound like a broken record. I have only one solution to this on going war and that will never happen. Our great great grand kids will be sitting around a fire and be having the same dilemma. Peace in the Middle East NEVER

557 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:51:10am

Off to the invasion thread ------>

558 albusteve  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:51:21am

re: #546 realwest

Who gives a shit what Rosanne Barr says about anything? Really, she's nothing but an uniformed Anti-Semite.

agreed...gettin pissy bro?

559 Fearless Fred  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:52:17am

re: #484 Iron Fist

I disagree with you somewhat on that. I think Israel should kill everyone who is affiliated with Hamas, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, al Aqsa, etc. wherever they find them. That includes the prisoners that are currently incarcerated waiting for the next time Israel will swap living terrorists for the bodies of dead soldiers.

Most especially the latter. No terrorist in custody should ever be allowed back on the street, where he'll be greated as a "hero". The problem with the way Israel has prosecuted the war to date is that it doesn't make war unsustainable for the terrorists. They need to find a Sherman, and let him march through Gaza to the sea, burning as he goes.

Lesser measures have failed. Repeatedly.

VDH wrote about this a few years ago ... I can't find the piece. Looking ...

560 notutopia  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:52:24am

re: #495 undhimmicratic

The ground operation has begun [Link: www.jpost.com...]

The IDF said that the purpose of the ground operation was to eliminate launching pads in northern Gaza from which specific long-range rockets had been fired into southern Israel.

This means the munitions are deeply embedded beneath the ground, that IAF airstrikes could not simply take out these launchpads.

561 Dianna  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:52:38am

re: #507 realwest

Yeah, and written by "Fida Qishta is a freelance Palestinian television producer and writer based in Gaza's southern township of Rafah"
Why the fuck would Hot Air publish that?

To make the point that there are vile idiots out there.

562 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:52:49am
563 DIZZY26  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:52:53am

re: #368 Airborn Swine

82nd-101st --------- either/or?

/Bragg 1960-01 (leg:-)

564 Truck Monkey  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:52:58am

re: #505 MandyManners

Does Israel want to govern Gaza?

Nobody does.

565 realwest  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:53:30am

re: #497 filetandrelease
I sure as hell hope you're wrong about that but fear you are correct.
Damnit.

566 Broomer  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:53:46am

re: #483 jcm

If Israel can control Gaza, the children will stop dying. On both sides.
As long as Hamas is in charge they will sacrifice their children and seek to kill the Jewish children.

Upding!

567 alegrias  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:54:07am

re: #525 LC LaWedgie

The shallow reasoning on the lefty part must be that they consider the whole thing a tv script. Next they'll dream Jimmah Carter out there with a bullhorn directing Hamas to victory -- a Nobel Prize-winning performance for the Screen Actor's Guild to savor.

***
Remember Ronald Reagan was President of the Hollywood Screen Actors Guild--where he learned to fight red-sympathizers & leftists!

568 Venflon  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:54:34am

Some reports in the local media the objective of ground forces is only to secure the areas hamas uses to launch rockets...
Only thing that would achieve is reduce the rocket range...
At the same breath, they're announcing the recruitment of tens of thousands of reservists...

569 notutopia  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:54:37am

re: #504 Walter L. Newton

And 49 percent of Fox is owned by an Arab.


Thus the Fox motto...Fair and Balanced. 49/51

570 filetandrelease  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:55:11am

re: #348 MandyManners

I claim that I'm Empress of the Universe. Will BBC report it?


I glad you came out of the closet.

571 realwest  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:55:47am

re: #521 Thanos
So Hot Air's Headlines = LGF's spin-off links? Damn long "headline" if you ask me.

572 Abu Bin Squid  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:56:00am

re: #488 Walter L. Newton

So you called Osama Bin Asshat a bigot and instead of showing remorse you lectured him, as if it's your place. He said he was sorry he wasn't more specific. But he wasn't sorry enough until you had your say, right? Name calling, lecturing, is this what Charles wants?

You owe Osama Bin Asshat an apology. I'll not hold breath, Mr. Newton, as you're too full of yourself for shame.

573 LC LaWedgie  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:56:30am

re: #567 alegrias

Yep, they'll never make the mistake of appointing one of those to their little party again. ;)

574 realwest  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:58:01am

Well I reckon y'all are off to the next thread, but I gotta leave now, darn it.
Anyway, I hope you all have a great day, that the IDF kicks Hamas ass hard, fast and continuously and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.

575 jcm  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:58:38am

re: #562 Iron Fist

The thing is, we haven't seen any unconditional surrender from Hamas, et al. The most they've ever done is try to call a time out when they start to lose. And for the most part, Israel has cooperated with them on that.

If the goal is some kind of peaceful co-existance, I'd say that what's been done so far has failed spectacularly. The only thing that's kept the Mohammedans from wiping out all the Jews in Israel is the simple fact that they don't have the military ability to actually do that.

They certainly give it a "good faith" effort. Is there any doubt that if Iran develops atomic weapons they will use them? The clock is ticking.

It's up to Hamas. They can choose to die to the last man (preferable), and the expected outcome IMHO.

Iran is the big issue. And needs to be dealt with. Iran however there is an option. There is a segment in Iran, I call it the Persian segment, that is sick and tried of the Mad Mullahs.

Iran we can hit the weapons, and the Mad Mullahs and ilk and not alienate the Persian segment.

576 notutopia  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:59:02am

re: #506 Joo-LiZ

Nevermind, just clicked the avatar... combat medic.

I'll echo everyone else; thanks for your hardwork and please stay safe!

{Venflon} Thank you for all that you have done and continue to do for Israel.

577 AuntAcid  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 10:59:56am

re: #413 alegrias

* * *
Amen, am praying for troops' safe return and victory
against terrorists.

"enie, meanie, minie, mo..."
I bet the Palis are praying to the same god for the same outcome.

578 alexknyc  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 11:03:04am

re: #176 Dianna

I know I'm late, but I just wanted to say: Go, IDF!

And why doesn't the report mention that those mosques are ammo dumps?

Because that would make them legitimate military targets and prevent the MSM from following its anti-Israel line.

579 Randall Gross  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 11:03:53am

re: #571 realwest

So Hot Air's Headlines = LGF's spin-off links? Damn long "headline" if you ask me.

They reworded the headline in their snarkastic manner, at hot air the article appears as:

"Guardian Working Hard to Keep its Gaza Coverage Fair and Balanced"

580 alexknyc  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 11:04:30am

re: #188 Opinionated

There were Arabs and there were Jews.

The Palestinian identity was created in the 1960's as a tool to use against Israel.

What the creators didn't anticipate is that their evil monstrosity of a creation would be uncontrollable and would even turn on them.

Evidently, Mary Shelley's Frankenstein was never translated into Arabic.

581 DIZZY26  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 11:06:05am

re: #491 alegrias

right on

582 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 11:10:22am
583 ryannon  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 11:10:42am

In Paris, 20,000 + Pro Pali demonstration degenerates, approximately 200 'uncontrolled elements' attempt to storm Israeli Embassy and are beaten back by riot police. Shops and cars torched, injuries on both sides.

Come what may, we'll always have Paris....

/shit

584 alexknyc  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 11:11:03am

re: #238 realwest

That's the million dollar question, isn't it. I honestly don't have an answer to that, but sure wish I did.
.
.
.
.
BTW - do any of y'all think that if President Elect Obama made a clear, unequivocal statement of support of Israel TODAY, it might well reshape both the MSM coverage of this war and indeed the "world opinion" being currently voiced?

No, it would simply alienate even more of his far-left moonbat support.

585 CofactorMatrix  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 11:11:26am

re: #417 Walter L. Newton

Look, there is nothing wrong with advocating that Israel beat Hamas, but some comments here this morning has been geared to killing ALL PALESTINIANS and that ALL PALESTINIANS are savages.

That's wrong, period. And if you don't like it, speak to Charles.

Did anyone say that all Pali's are savages? Didn't see that.

586 Fearless Fred  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 11:13:05am

"Israel has targeted mosques before saying that Hamas had used them as command posts and fire bases."~Reuters
So, Israel's up to old tricks yet again, "saying" Hamas misused mosques. Those Jews will just say anything won't they?
In London, 10,000 protesters led by singer Annie Lennox marched with Palestinian flags and placards with slogans such as "End the siege on Gaza" and "Stop the massacre."

587 Alberta Oil Peon  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 11:14:36am

re: #387 Dianna

To say nothing of the logical problems with that tale!

Why so many oxy tanks, and why were they so big? Why would you transfer oxy tanks from other trucks and put them in the pick-up? Oxygen is energetic, yes, but I don't believe it would have blown like that; I'm no expert, but that didn't look like an oxygen explosion.

And so on, and so forth.

Besides, if one were doing welding, there would be cylinders of acetylene as well, which are generally shorter and stouter than oxy cylinders. I have a set in my shop, so I ought to know. All the "cylinders" on that pickup appeared to be the same size. And one normally transports oxygen cylinders upright, for safety reasons, too.

588 jcm  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 11:15:56am

re: #582 Iron Fist

We've been hearing that the Iranians were fed up with the Mad Mullahs for eight years. The only real change in that time is that Iran has moved closer and closer to developing their own nuclear weapons. Which the President of Iran has repeatedly said will be used to destroy Israel when they are acquired.

In other words, we are slowly losing to Iran, and will continue to slowly lose to Iran up to the point when we suddenly completely lose to Iran. MAD doesn't appear to work on genocidal Mohammedan terrorists and their sponsors.

And frankly, I'd say that there is good reason to doubt that we would actually retaliate with nuclear arms even if we are attacked with them. Especially if the "triggerman" is a non-State actor like al Qaeda or Hezbollah.

Very true. And I don't see BHO doing anything to improve the situation. It's needs the type of operations we did in Poland. Combine with use of force against selected targets.

Not gonna' happen in the next 4 years on our account. And in that time Iran will have the bomb.

*shit*

589 [deleted]  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 11:17:05am
590 alexknyc  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 11:26:06am

re: #318 avanti

What should he say as President elect while Bush is at the helm ? He's already spoken out of Israels right to strike back when attracted. I have to believe that you would disapprove of any comments about upcoming policies before he has any real power. His silence does speak volumes. On this issue at least, he gets where the buck stops, and it's with our current President.

Given Obama's pronouncements on practically everything else, it seems the buck stops with our current president ONLY with regard to Israel.

591 alexknyc  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 11:35:12am

re: #412 rwmofo

It's 2009. So why am I still perplexed as to how this idiocy could be published in The Guardian as a news article?

Because it's the Guardian.

592 alexknyc  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 11:38:02am

re: #441 yma o hyd

Blydi 'eck!

Why does that idiot not ask if hamassholes feel happy trying to kill innocent Israeli women and children?

Because we all know that they do.

593 alexknyc  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 11:50:26am

re: #516 alegrias

* * * *
Sean Penn's buddy Ahmedinejad and US-ally Iraqi President Al Maliki, however, are spotted in Tehran calling Israel criminals.

May Al Maliki get the shoe assault treatment & be toppled by a better, pro-Israeli Iraqi someday.

Yes, at some point 30% of Iraq was jewish Iraqis. Read that somewhere...

Jews were tossed in 1948.

594 SpiritOf1683  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 12:12:55pm

re: #503 Fearless Fred

Israel Shells Gaza and Drops Leaflets, Seemingly to Prepare for a Ground Offensive
The Israeli Army also dropped thousands of leaflets into some residential districts warning inhabitants to evacuate their homes. Because of “the activity of terrorist groups,” the leaflets said in Arabic, the army “is obliged to respond quickly and work from inside your residential area.”
~NYT

Hmm, so not quite resorting to Banner's suggestion quite yet.


I don't recall us dropping leaflets to the people of Ouistreham on June 5th informing them to evacuate their homes because we were about to invade France the following morning. But this is how the MSM expects Israel to conduct a war.

595 6pat6  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 1:05:37pm

re: #453 Dianna

T

hey also must have been magical oxygen tanks to survive a direct strike. Didn't dent them and barely wore off some yellow paint.

I missed that aspect!

You're right; that's...egregious. Even by BBC standards.

Oxygen tanks are green, anyway. Those yellow "tanks" could've been welding gas, but I doubt they were that.

596 cincinnati_kid37  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 2:54:25pm

re: #351 realwest

Who's a Hamas "commander" who's sitting at home?
(sorry for the late post but this thread is zooming along!).

From the original post - The IAF also hit a mosque in northern Gaza and the home of senior Hamas commander Abu Zacharia Al-Jamal. A Hamas spokesman announced that al-Jamal was killed in the attack, which would make him the third senior operative in the group to be targeted in the past three days.

597 Reign of Witches  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 4:18:15pm

I SUPPORT ISRAEL! HAMAS BRINGS TEH SUCK!1

598 Reign of Witches  Sat, Jan 3, 2009 4:35:58pm

By the way, they aren't terrorists, but the San Diego Chargers are going down tonight, too. :)


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