Gaza Video Supplier Responds

Middle East • Views: 4,260

This is an email sent to us by Paul Martin, who supplied Western media with that Gaza hospital video. Martin demands an apology from bloggers, and insists that we have no reason to be suspicious of video footage that comes from a Hamas-linked photographer and a radical Marxist doctor. We created an LGF account for him to post comments, but he apparently decided not to jump into the pool with the lizard army.

In the email, all eight paragraphs are in bold text; I’ll spare you that.

WORLD NEWS & FEATURES, which has been operating in zones of conflict since 2001, is responsible for the supply of video material to a number of major television stations during this Gaza conflict, and we are very careful to ensure we work only with people we know and trust in the Gaza Strip. Ashraf Mashharawi is probably the most respected independent producer in the Gaza Strip. We have worked with him, and with his late brother Ahmed, an excellent cameraman, on and off there for at least five years, and throughout the Mashharawis have been fair and accurate. We would expect even the most objective Western journalist to be somewhat upset when he has to carry his own 12-year-old brother to hospital, fatally wounded by a rocket while playing on the roof of his own home. No-one in their right mind would suggest that any person would allow doctors to play games with a dying or dead younger brother. The idea is bizarre and deeply insulting, and actually damages the credibility of your blogger’s scrutiny of TV output in general - a scrutiny which in principle we would strongly applaud.

The tape was fed to London and used by several outlets, without WNF itself actually having the facility to watch it beforehand. But having now done so we continue to stand by the complete genuineness of the footage. What is shown is just the very final stage of doctors’ failed efforts to save Mahmoud. I suppose the reason their effort as shown is so gentle is that they have already in effect concluded that it is futile. And I think your blogger’s understanding of TV is somewhat flawed in this respect: no-one would need to ‘dramatize’ any such death, gently or vigorously. The death itself and the fact that Ashraf’s cameraman had filmed all the PREVIOUS events, and the subsequent return to the home with the body, and the funeral, would have been dramatic enough… in fact the hospital post-death concluding effort by the doctor(s) in no way enhanced the power of the filming - if anything it weakened it… just a body lying there and Ashraf mourning over his dead brother’s lifeless corpse would have been more powerful.

So there is absolutely no reason to suspect this doctor was playing to the camera - let alone that Ashraf would have asked him to do so. The hospital has confirmed that Mahmoud Mashharawi, aged 12, was brought in still breathing but subsequently was pronounced dead. There is therefore not the slightest indication of any faking.

I think a decent apology to Ashraf might be in order.

I might also add that trying to suggest Ashraf has some political agenda is also a false trail. He does not. He was (but is no longer) employed by a company that produced the .ps suffix, and just as anyone can sign up for a .com or a .info or a.tv suffix on payment of a small fee, so can anyone buy a .ps suffix - even Little Green Footballs. All Palestinians like the .ps suffix so anyone can sign up, including affiliates of Hamas. So what WNF has also used this company’s services, because it has a big US-based server that can contain a lot of video, and it is quite cheap! We are happy with this web hosting service - which has no influence at all on our editorial output - we can switch to any commercial provider whenever we wish. The fact that we have had both a personal and a commercial relationship with Ashraf Mashharawi is one good reason why we are relying ONLY on his services during this current conflict while I myself and our other people cannot enter Gaza itself. We have other Palestinians offering to work for us there but have turned all of them down so we can rely only on someone about whose integrity we have certainty.

Finally, an attempt was made by one of your bloggers to show that one of the doctors wanted to make a film with Ashraf. His brother, who died in a car crash, was hosted by a family in Norway and that is probably how he came to know about Ashraf’s production services. The idea that this somehow resulted in this same doctor and Ashraf acting out some faked scene over his dying or dead youngest brother is ludicrous and sickening. Ashraf’s father, who is a medical doctor too by the way, deserves better than to have the death of his child portrayed in any way other than the truth - Mahmoud died because a rocket hit him while he was playing on the roof of his apartment. It is a legitimate story for the media to cover.

I would however suggest that it is vital for the media also to cover why such events occur, and to give balanced and fair overall coverage. Some filmed reports may show one aspect of the complex events, while another should show another side. For example, WNF is investigating whether unmanned drones have cameras which produce only fuzzy pictures and therefore cannot or did not distinguish whether figures moving on a roof are fighter or just kids. That may well be the case. WNF is proud to be a very independent producer of news and current affairs from ALL sides of a conflict. Presently I am in Israel filming with the Israeli medical teams who go to the sites of rocket attacks, for example.

Finally, we welcome and encourage and salute scrutiny of the media, but we urge bloggers first to think before they leap to the keyboard, and then to be moderate and considerate, especially when alleging things that will be hurtful to other human beings. Anyone with further queries (or apologies) is welcome to contact me on worldnf@gmail.com.

This point really strikes me:

The tape was fed to London and used by several outlets, without WNF itself actually having the facility to watch it beforehand.

So the supplier of video from a war zone governed by a terrorist organization did not even look at it before it was sold to and used by Western sources? Wow. And we wonder why there’s so much Hamas propaganda in the media.

The most important question, though, and the one that started this whole controversy, is whether the “CPR” shown in the video is genuine, or whether it was cynical propaganda — a fake “resuscitation” attempt. This is Martin’s explanation:

What is shown is just the very final stage of doctors’ failed efforts to save Mahmoud. I suppose the reason their effort as shown is so gentle is that they have already in effect concluded that it is futile.

I’ll let the doctors among us weigh in on this, but it seems ridiculous beyond belief to say that once you’ve decided a patient is dead, it’s a good idea to gently massage his abdomen with the tips of your fingers — and call it CPR.

There are other serious questions that have been raised about the video as well. This CNN article claims that the boy suffered shrapnel wounds in his head and all over his body:

Raafat Hamdouna, administrative director at Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, said Friday that “Mahmoud Khalil Mashharawi, a 12-year-old, was brought to the hospital, and he was breathing, but he was hit in the head and all over his body by shrapnel.”

But in the video shown on Channel 4, we see the child’s head from several angles in several different scenes and there is absolutely no sign of wounds or blood. For example, this is the photo on that CNN page:

Given the background and the situation, it’s completely justified to suspect staging in videos such as this, and the terrorist groups who run Gaza have demonstrated over and over that they are willing and able to engage in it.

As I’ve written previously, the death of a child is a terrible thing — but groups like Hamas are not above using their own children to manipulate the feelings of Western audiences.

Jump to bottom

387 comments
1 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:14:17am

Well, now that is made clear; he doesn't have to come here. Thanks Mr. Martin.

2 phoenixgirl  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:14:20am

doth he protest too much?

3 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:14:25am

No crayons on the Internet?

4 uncle_monkey  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:15:46am
I’ll let the doctors among us weigh in on this, but it seems ridiculous beyond belief to say that once you’ve decided a patient is dead, it’s a good idea to gently massage his abdomen with the tips of your fingers — and call it CPR.

Yes, once you've lost the patient it's usually time to start accupuncture.

5 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:15:48am

Does the truth really matter since children are dying? You know--fake but accurate.

6 x-wing  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:16:23am

Apology? I got your apology right here Mr. Martin ;>}~

7 jaunte  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:16:25am

I'll say I'm sorry.

"I'm sorry you're a liar, Mr. Martin."

8 Bobblehead  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:16:39am

The more he explains, the deeper hole he digs for himself.

9 Spiny Norman  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:16:44am

It was a "re-enactment" at best, but that video was staged, there's no getting around that obvious fact.

10 SurferDoc  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:16:59am

He has faith in his source. No facts to support the story, but lotsa faith.

11 freedombilly  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:17:25am

Coward. He asked for an account and to post his side of the story and backed out. Freaking coward.

12 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:17:47am
13 jaunte  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:17:51am

"...the supplier of video from a war zone governed by a terrorist organization did not even look at it before it was sold to and used by Western sources..."

Note to all future customers: Caveat Emptor.

14 Cathypop  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:18:16am

I'm sorry that idiots will believe this moron

15 VegasRick  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:18:33am

re: #8 Bobblehead

The more he explains, the deeper hole he digs for himself.

I look forward to him saying "yea, yea, that's the ticket!"

16 jwb7605  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:19:14am
fatally wounded by a rocket while playing on the roof of his own home


I still think that's the key.
Whose rocket?

17 Sharmuta  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:19:23am
The death itself and the fact that Ashraf’s cameraman had filmed all the PREVIOUS events, and the subsequent return to the home with the body, and the funeral, would have been dramatic enough...

So the cnn version is accurate and Ch 4's is edited?

18 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:19:25am
For example, WNF is investigating whether unmanned drones have cameras which produce only fuzzy pictures and therefore cannot or did not distinguish whether figures moving on a roof are fighter or just kids.

Who made that allegation?

19 opnion  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:20:01am

"Mahmoud is dead becuse a rocket hit him?" ther would hvae been only parts & no need to perform CPR.
I'm sure that he didn't mean to say it that way, but read what you wrote

20 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:20:01am
We would expect even the most objective Western journalist to be somewhat upset when he has to carry his own 12-year-old brother to hospital, fatally wounded by a rocket while playing on the roof of his own home.

I would expect any civilized person to be horrified and aghast at the use of a film of a dead relative, and a very young one at that, to be used in this way.

21 VegasRick  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:20:13am

re: #16 jwb7605

I still think that's the key.
Whose rocket?

It was not a rocket, more lies.

22 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:20:26am

Why didn't he run spell-checker or proof-read this before he sent it? I think it's indicative of his whole operation.

23 phoenixgirl  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:20:34am

a rocket hit him or the roof? if a rocket hit him, i doubt any thing would be left of to resuscitate

24 jwb7605  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:21:02am

re: #21 VegasRick

It was not a rocket, more lies.

No, I think it might have been a rocket. Work accident.

25 x-wing  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:21:31am

re: #4 uncle_monkey

Yes, once you've lost the patient it's usually time to start accupuncture.

I ran Medical Assist some years ago, and got a call for a guy that had a tree fall on him(a big one). The Medics hooked up ringers to him,and pumped his chest until ringers were coming out of the nose tubes.
I fail to see where a tummy massage would help. Maybe the guy is a perv.

26 VegasRick  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:21:43am

re: #20 reine.de.tout

I would expect any civilized person to be horrified and aghast at the use of a film of a dead relative, and a very young one at that, to be used in this way.

Therein lies the rub.

27 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:21:52am

re: #7 jaunte

I'll say I'm sorry.

"I'm sorry you're a liar, Mr. Martin."

Permit me to add my own condolences:

"I'm sorry you're a liar, Ashraf Mashharawi."

28 Sharmuta  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:22:01am
Finally, we welcome and encourage and salute scrutiny of the media, but we urge bloggers first to think before they leap to the keyboard, and then to be moderate and considerate, especially when alleging things that will be hurtful to other human beings

So emotions should trump facts. Gottcha.

29 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:22:25am

His email the Charles and his post at Augean Stables (#13) are almost identical but he left this part out of his email.....

Oh yes, by the way when the war is over and I can get into Gaza myself, I will get thea full video of the original filmed tape, and make it available to all on our website. We would then welcome honest analysis.

Anyone wanna bet this ain't ever gonna happen?

30 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:22:25am

re: #25 x-wing

*whack*

31 Bloodnok  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:22:50am

re: #18 MandyManners

Who made that allegation?

It's to show that they are balanced in their editorial outp-.......Oh wait. No it doesn't.

32 jemima  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:22:52am

Since Jews won't submit, they have to be killed. Since infidels are stupid, they can be convinced of anything.
Have I got that about right, Mr. Martin?

33 invictus1  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:23:09am

I never really thought Mr. Martin would come on here and actually answer the real questions. I'm sure the account is still open in case he ever wants to use it - but I doubt it.

34 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:23:10am

Mr. Martin -
Both the CNN and the BBC news stories indicated that Ashraf was out working and got a phone call, leading him to return home to find this tragedy had occurred.

In your written piece here you state:

Then an unmanned Israeli aircraft fired two small rockets.
Ashraf rushed upstairs and took the boys to hospital, but it was hopeless. They were buried the same day.

So - was Ashraf and his cameraman away and working and had to return, OR were they already there and able to run upstairs when the rockets hit?

35 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:23:13am
36 VegasRick  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:23:14am

re: #29 Killgore Trout

His email the Charles and his post at Augean Stables (#13) are almost identical but he left this part out of his email.....


Anyone wanna bet this ain't ever gonna happen?

-990

37 opnion  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:23:18am

re: #20 reine.de.tout

I would expect any civilized person to be horrified and aghast at the use of a film of a dead relative, and a very young one at that, to be used in this way.


I agree with that. I don't care what your cause is, you just don't film the death of a dying brother for propaganda.
Whatever did or did not happen the film is a fraud.

38 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:23:20am

re: #28 Sharmuta

So emotions should trump facts. Gottcha.

Am I the only one who had "Feelings" start playing in my mind when I read that part?

39 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:23:44am

re: #34 reine.de.tout

Another nice catch.

40 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:23:50am

re: #29 Killgore Trout

His email the Charles and his post at Augean Stables (#13) are almost identical but he left this part out of his email.....

Anyone wanna bet this ain't ever gonna happen?

I'm curious as to how the managed to get the snippets of video out, but can't get the full video out.

41 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:23:52am

re: #29 Killgore Trout

His email the Charles and his post at Augean Stables (#13) are almost identical but he left this part out of his email.....

Anyone wanna bet this ain't ever gonna happen?

Yer gonna have a long list. Got a legal pad ready?

42 jwb7605  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:24:16am

re: #32 jemima

Since Jews won't submit, they have to be killed. Since infidels are stupid, they can be convinced of anything. Otherwise, they have to be killed.
Have I got that about right, Mr. Martin?


close.

43 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:24:28am

re: #31 Bloodnok

It's to show that they are balanced in their editorial outp-.......Oh wait. No it doesn't.

The very idea that a military would intentionally use fuzzy technology is ludicrous.

44 Sharmuta  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:24:34am

Wait- didn't cnn base the authenticity of this video off of Martin's reassurances, and now he admits he didn't even view the tape?!

45 x-wing  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:24:40am

re: #30 MandyManners

*whack*

Was that for the mental pic.? If so sorry.

46 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:24:59am
No-one in their right mind would suggest that any person would allow doctors to play games with a dying or dead younger brother. The idea is bizarre and deeply insulting, and actually damages the credibility of your blogger’s scrutiny of TV output in general - a scrutiny which in principle we would strongly applaud.

Yes...but we aren't talking about people who are in their right minds, are we? Using children, dead or otherwise for propaganda purposes, is not above the Palis, let alone Hamas.

TV video output can be laughable. Really. And so are your lame excuses. lol!

BTW - perhaps you should read up on rigor mortis so the next time you endorse a video of a body that's been 'dead' for a while, the head isn't flopping around. That's just for starters.

47 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:25:05am

re: #33 invictus1

I never really thought Mr. Martin would come on here and actually answer the real questions. I'm sure the account is still open in case he ever wants to use it - but I doubt it.

I'd like to know his nic ... just in case.

48 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:25:26am

re: #41 pre-Boomer Marine brat

There's very little chance we are even going to see that video. His constant demands for apologies are making me much less sympathetic. He's stonewalling.

49 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:25:44am

re: #39 Killgore Trout

Another nice catch.

They expected this thing to be accepted without question.

It wasn't.

And now they're getting completely tangled up in their stories.

Doesn't give me a lot of confidence in the credibility of these stories.

50 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:25:58am

re: #34 reine.de.tout

Good Catch!

51 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:26:00am

re: #44 Sharmuta

Heh, it seems so.

52 phoenixgirl  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:26:06am
especially when alleging things that will be hurtful to other human beings.

which group are you including/excluding as "human beings"?

53 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:26:08am

re: #44 Sharmuta

Wait- didn't cnn base the authenticity of this video off of Martin's reassurances, and now he admits he didn't even view the tape?!

Who was narrating the video? I thought that was Martin?

54 invictus1  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:26:12am

re: #18 MandyManners

Who made that allegation?

The videos posted by the IDF don't look that fuzzy to me.

55 eaglewingz08  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:26:36am

Given what happened eight years ago with another fake Mahmoud death for which the French news agency is still in litigation over and which lost a libel suit (the false claim was that Israel shot to death a kid in the arms of his father) I'd say yes palis will stage deaths of their relatives in order to libel Israel. They are the current banner holders of blood libels against Jews and they overall have no conscience. Ninety percent voted for genocidal killers for their representatives, they have sown the wind and are reaping the whirlwind. I have no sorrow for them at all no matter what age.

56 yma o hyd  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:26:40am

This was the first thing in mr martin's apologetic which stuck in my craw:

'We would expect even the most objective Western journalist to be somewhat upset when he has to carry his own 12-year-old brother to hospital, fatally wounded by a rocket while playing on the roof of his own home.'

Yeah - we would expect that, indeed.

What we would not expect is that said, emotionally upset journalist has another cameraman handy to film this very personal scene.

(Not that I could detect much grief here, but that is by the way ...)

57 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:26:41am

re: #44 Sharmuta

Wait- didn't cnn base the authenticity of this video off of Martin's reassurances, and now he admits he didn't even view the tape?!

hee-hee!
Why yes!

They are getting sooo tangled up in their stories - no wonder he didn't want to come here!

58 sarastro27  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:26:52am
What is shown is just the very final stage of doctors’ failed efforts to save Mahmoud. I suppose the reason their effort as shown is so gentle is that they have already in effect concluded that it is futile. And I think your blogger’s understanding of TV is somewhat flawed

Oh come on!
You cant dismiss criticism on footage of clearly fake cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) by stating that the doctor's (or should i say actor?) effort was "gentle".

59 VegasRick  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:27:15am

re: #47 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I'd like to know his nic ... just in case.

I think he goes by "DumbAssLyingPieceOfShit".
I think.

60 invictus1  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:27:24am

re: #44 Sharmuta

Wait- didn't cnn base the authenticity of this video off of Martin's reassurances, and now he admits he didn't even view the tape?!

Yep! And then posted an article based on him defending it. We don't even know if he saw the tape by that time.

61 Ojoe  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:27:24am

To practice CPR & get a red cross CPR card, we used a dummy & we locked our hands together, palms down, & put them in the center of the dummy's chest, and then positioned ourselves over the dummy, and pressed down with our whole upper body weight onto the dummy, which gave downward about two inches. It was tiring to keep this up. One compression every second or two.

I got my card.

62 jaunte  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:27:28am

re: #49 reine.de.tout

Freudian slip:
"The tape was fed to London..."

63 pious agnostic  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:27:30am

The earlier shots of the roof where the explosion happened (assuming they are accurate, are actually the roof, there actually was an explosion, etc.) showed a fairly small area of disturbance, less than what would be expected from an actual missile.

I wonder, just wonder, if what happened is that the two boys were fooling around with some sort of ordnance, a grenade or explosive device they'd found somewhere. And, like boys all over, they wanted to make it go. And they did.

Boom. Explosion on roof, adults come running, two boys hurt and dying. Obviously, it couldn't be that they'd snuck some stuff from Uncle Achmed's private store of explosives; it must have been a devious Jew missile. Anybody hear a plane? No? Must have been a devious Jew drone missle.

Could this have been what happened?

64 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:27:36am

re: #45 x-wing

Last sentence.

65 rightwinger3  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:27:45am

re: #37 opnion

I agree with that. I don't care what your cause is, you just don't film the death of a dying brother for propaganda. Whatever did or did not happen the film is a fraud.

Ding, Ding, Ding! We have a winnah!

Just too many contradictions between what Martin and Mashharrawi are saying and the voiceovers and timelines on the videos.

66 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:28:23am

re: #49 reine.de.tout

They expected this thing to be accepted without question.

It wasn't.

And now they're getting completely tangled up in their stories.

Doesn't give me a lot of confidence in the credibility of these stories.

I'm mystified about why he (apparently) wanted to come here.
Why did he post #13 at the Stables?
We are not the intended audience.

67 opnion  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:29:01am

re: #65 rightwinger3

Ding, Ding, Ding! We have a winnah!

Just too many contradictions between what Martin and Mashharrawi are saying and the voiceovers and timelines on the videos.

Yup

68 Perry  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:29:09am

My ACLS has been expired for several years, but I've been in I don't know how many codes. Codes are not run this way.

69 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:29:12am

re: #54 invictus1

The videos posted by the IDF don't look that fuzzy to me.

I wonder if he's even seen them. I doubt it.

70 x-wing  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:29:21am

re: #64 MandyManners

Last sentence.

Well ok, sorry for that.

71 rightwinger3  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:29:25am

re: #53 rightymouse

Who was narrating the video? I thought that was Martin?

No. Two different voices on CNN and CH4.

72 jcm  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:29:51am

Demands an apology. But offers not confirmation that the story is true.

73 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:29:58am

re: #55 eaglewingz08

Given what happened eight years ago with another fake Mahmoud death for which the French news agency is still in litigation over and which lost a libel suit (the false claim was that Israel shot to death a kid in the arms of his father) I'd say yes palis will stage deaths of their relatives in order to libel Israel. They are the current banner holders of blood libels against Jews and they overall have no conscience. Ninety percent voted for genocidal killers for their representatives, they have sown the wind and are reaping the whirlwind. I have no sorrow for them at all no matter what age.

I read here that the vote was 44/41 Hamas/Fatah.

74 CIA Reject  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:30:30am
"...we are very careful to ensure we work only with people we know and trust in the Gaza Strip. Ashraf Mashharawi is probably the most respected independent producer in the Gaza Strip."

That's an admission of either complicity with Hamas or complete stupidity.

Not sure which it is- yet...

75 toon  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:30:32am

oh yea i'm fucking convinced. i'm sorry
for all those media covered and defended your crap.

76 yma o hyd  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:30:45am

re: #44 Sharmuta

Wait- didn't cnn base the authenticity of this video off of Martin's reassurances, and now he admits he didn't even view the tape?!

Who did the voice-overs for both CNN and Channel4?
Someone yesterday suggested it was Mr Martin himself - anybody know?

77 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:30:45am

re: #62 jaunte

Freudian slip:
"The tape was fed to London..."

heh.
And so, a riddle: Why can't they "feed" the entire unedited tape?

78 Maximu§  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:30:45am

Martin demands an apology from bloggers,

How about my size-11 foot in your Ass Mr. Martin!

79 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:30:54am

re: #63 pious agnostic

An explosion would have left a residue. There was no blast residue.

80 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:31:04am

re: #71 rightwinger3

No. Two different voices on CNN and CH4.


Ok - then who wrote the scripts?

81 Sharmuta  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:31:45am

Gaza video genuine, journalists say

"He's a man of enormous integrity and would never get involved with any sort of manipulation of images, let alone when the person dying is his own brother," Martin said. "I know the whole family. I know them very well. ... [Mashharawi] is upset and angry that anyone would think of him having done anything like this. ... This is ridiculous. He's independent."


BUT

The tape was fed to London and used by several outlets, without WNF itself actually having the facility to watch it beforehand.

So cnn stood by the tape on Martin's word alone. cnn must have a lot of trust in raw, unviewed video.

82 jaunte  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:32:03am

re: #77 reine.de.tout

Reasons of ... um... security?

83 experiencedtraveller  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:32:04am

Blago meet Mr. Martin.
Mr. Martin meet Blago.

84 jcm  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:32:13am

re: #77 reine.de.tout

heh.
And so, a riddle: Why can't they "feed" the entire unedited tape?

It's a Pallywood production, only the edited version fits the narrative, the full tape would expose the fraud.

85 Racer X  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:32:21am

So Ron Paul Martin chickened out.

Surprise!

There are lots of questions over this whole incident, and any legitimate journalist would want to find the truth. But then again when the truth may show you and your friends to be propaganda whores for a terrorist organization financed and run by Iran, it is probably better to keep the truth hidden.

86 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:32:35am
87 lawhawk  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:32:35am

So, he's going for the fake but accurate spin? We don't check the videos before they're distributed, but we vouch for the contents? Really? That's how you do business? Amoral doesn't begin to describe this cretin. He's allowing propagandists to shill for the enemies of Western civilization.

He doesn't vouch for what happened on the video, but claims that he trusts the videographer. Sorry, but that doesn't fly, and that doesn't address the concerns with the video which purports to show doctors attempting CPR, but in fact does no such thing.

88 Kronocide  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:32:55am

As I rushed to post some obvious questions, it seems the Lizard Army has fully eviscerated the story already. Sorta like giving CPR to an already dead child. Mr Martin should drop the obvious obfuscation and shaddup.

89 subsailor68  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:33:05am

From the response by Mr. Martin:

"The tape was fed to London and used by several outlets, without WNF itself actually having the facility to watch it beforehand. But having now done so we continue to stand by the complete genuineness of the footage." (Emphasis mine.)

This is, to me, a very odd comment. First, they disseminate without viewing. If - and this is what he wrote - that's the case, they would have no way of knowing whether or not it was genuine, as they hadn't seen it. So, what's the reason behind his using the word "continue"? Wouldn't it have made more sense to say something like:

"But having now done so, we are convinced the footage is genuine."

In short, how can you "continue" to believe something before you are aware of it?

90 phoenixgirl  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:33:06am

i wonder if the full version has "action!" "cut!" "make up!"

91 rightwinger3  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:33:23am

re: #80 rightymouse

Who knows? Local guys at CNN and CH4 in London. Martin said the video was "fed to London" without him seeing it. But the fed to London part is bullshit too. Clips of this video were first shown on NBC Nightline on Jan 4th.

92 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:33:30am

re: #81 Sharmuta

Gaza video genuine, journalists say

So cnn stood by the tape on Martin's word alone. cnn must have a lot of trust in raw, unviewed video.

Shar - no one has the entire video, that I know.
What was "fed" was snippets that matched the story they wanted to tell.

Either way, Martin says he didn't see any of it.
But CNN stands by their version based on his assurances.
This is so circular it's driving me nuts.

93 Arbalest  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:33:39am

"Ashraf Mashharawi is probably the most respected independent producer in the Gaza Strip." did what he did.

The tape is obviously staged.

Was the ER scene actually a dramatization, a recreation? You, CNN, represented it as actual events.

The indicated explosion scene does not fit any explosive device. The debris is simply piled up, and the large moved-and-split concrete block (how much explosive, detonated 1.2 meter away, would be needed?), clearly indicated as a result of the explosion, contrases sharply with the un-affected chair close by.

Remember, the explosion must move and split the concrete block without scattering debris, shredding the corpse or moving furniture.

Was this scene scene actually a dramatization, a recreation? It was represented as Truth, when clearly it is a fraud.


"We have worked with him, and with his late brother Ahmed, an excellent cameraman, ..."

You (employees of CNN) are accomplices.


In order for CNN to start trying to regain some of its credibility, Paul Martin should be publicly fired from CNN.

94 smokefire  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:34:06am

I’ll let the doctors among us weigh in on this, but it seems ridiculous beyond belief to say that once you’ve decided a patient is dead, it’s a good idea to gently massage his abdomen with the tips of your fingers — and call it CPR.

Thank you Charles.
As someone that has done CPR, in ambulances, at the scene, and in an ER, you NEVER repeat NEVER, quit CPR, until instructed by the lead physican. The gentle massage, seen in the video, is just that, window dressing for the camera. PURE AND SIMPLE. When told, by a doctor, that "it's over", it's over. Dramatics are over the top, and disgusting.

95 opnion  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:34:31am

re: #90 phoenixgirl

i wonder if the full version has "action!" "cut!" "make up!"


"What's my motivation? How can I emote, if I'm playing dead?"

96 SpartanWoman  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:34:54am

The code was a farce. If you are still breathing you have a pulse, no pulse no breathing. A good fake tape would have had the docs venting the patient, this was not even adequate hollywood fake. Just shameful.

I have read many comments elsewhere about how these docs (the one doing the compressions was a total fraud) are probably exhausted and over burdened. These guys looked clean as a whistle and hardly like people with an ER full of "victims".

As for the frequent BS that the docs have to "put on a show" for the family. No. Total lie.

97 VegasRick  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:35:04am

re: #90 phoenixgirl

i wonder if the full version has "action!" "cut!" "make up!"

Yep. With acting coaches (although they weren't very good)

98 opinionated  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:35:08am

One can dissect each and every sentence and respond in a manner that evidences the lies and absurdity.

But that is not needed. One sentence says it all. It is so crazy, it is so absurd, it is so against any behavior that human beings experience. It is contrary to the innate nurturing instinct of normal families and societies, that it tells you all you need to know.

Mahmoud died because a rocket hit him while he was playing on the roof of his apartment.

Who the hell allows children to play on a roof in a war zone? In what human society would not family and even total stranger make sure that as much as humanly possible children are out of harms way?

Surprisingly, today the NY Times tells you why the may have been on a roof.

A new Israeli weapon, meanwhile, is tailored to the Hamas tactic of asking civilians to stand on the roofs of buildings so Israeli pilots will not bomb. The Israelis are countering with a missile designed, paradoxically, not to explode. They aim the missiles at empty areas of the roofs to frighten residents into leaving the buildings, a tactic called “a knock on the roof.”

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Imagine. Israel developed a system because they care more for Arab children then their own barbaric and savage people species.

99 yma o hyd  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:35:12am

re: #72 jcm

Demands an apology. But offers not confirmation that the story is true.

The apology is not for us doubting the story - its demanded for the wrong we do mr Mashharawi in actually doubting him!

And that, imho, is a typical islamic attitude: right or wrong don't matter, what matters is hurting somebody's feelings by doubting him.

100 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:35:21am

re: #90 phoenixgirl

i wonder if the full version has "action!" "cut!" "make up!"

Gee!
Ya think .... ?
(-:

101 lawhawk  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:37:01am

re: #61 Ojoe

To practice CPR & get a red cross CPR card, we used a dummy & we locked our hands together, palms down, & put them in the center of the dummy's chest, and then positioned ourselves over the dummy, and pressed down with our whole upper body weight onto the dummy, which gave downward about two inches. It was tiring to keep this up. One compression every second or two.

I got my card.

I have been certified in child and adult cpr, and the newest dummies have sensors that let you know when you're hitting the correct position on the body, and when the compressions are the right intensity. As I noted the first time viewing the video and every time since, the man applying compressions is doing so on the victim's abdomen.

They're supposed to be chest compressions, not stomach massages. If he was doing them correctly, Mads Gilbert would not be able to put the leads on the victim because they'd be in the same place.

Throw in the fact that there's a lack of evidence that the victims were hit by a missile, that the location where the airstrike was claimed shows no sign of a current incident (pockmarks rusted - items do not rust overnight) and a lack of blood on the scene, despite multiple photos from other airstrike locations which shows that when Israel hits a site with missiles, there's blood, shrapnel, and other actual evidence.

The victim may well have died - but the circumstances are hardly what they allege.

102 jaunte  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:37:15am

For a video purportedly about the death of a child, the producers have gone to a lot of trouble to avoid a clear picture of the boy at center of the activity. It's like watching the dance of the seven veils. That aspect alone should raise the suspicion of anyone who doesn't automatically accept the truth of the story.

103 smokefire  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:37:19am

Who the hell allows children to play on a roof in a war zone? In what human society would not family and even total stranger make sure that as much as humanly possible children are out of harms way?

Yeah, they love their children SO much. Please.

104 Sharmuta  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:37:25am

I don't doubt the boy died. My hunch, though, is that this video is a reenactment.

105 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:37:29am

re: #96 SpartanWoman

. . .
As for the frequent BS that the docs have to "put on a show" for the family. No. Total lie.

If one is going to "put on a show", one would do it for - what, cameras perhaps? To illustrate a story? The video was staged for the sole purpose of getting that scene out of Gaza and to the rest of the world.

106 Kronocide  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:37:36am

re: #98 opinionated

Hmm... interesting. This is where the real story may lie.

107 VegasRick  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:37:38am

re: #98 opinionated

I think it was a one of the jooos new uterus bombs.
/

108 abolitionist  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:37:53am
But in the video shown on Channel 4, we see the child’s head from several angles in several different scenes and there is absolutely no sign of wounds or blood. For example, this is the photo on that CNN page:

I noticed dark stains (blood?) on the floor in the background in that living room scene --just in front of the other sofa, not the one where the older brother was holding the boy --at 1:03 into the CNN video.

109 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:38:03am

re: #95 opnion

"What's my motivation? How can I emote, if I'm playing dead?"

(-:
There is method in your acting.

110 yma o hyd  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:38:03am

re: #79 pre-Boomer Marine brat

An explosion would have left a residue. There was no blast residue.

He does not address this point at all.
He repeats that it was an Israeli rocket which killed these two lads, and basically demands that we accept that because a) he says so, and b) his Gaza stringer, Mr Mashharawi says so.

111 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:38:13am

re: #91 rightwinger3

Who knows? Local guys at CNN and CH4 in London. Martin said the video was "fed to London" without him seeing it. But the fed to London part is bullshit too. Clips of this video were first shown on NBC Nightline on Jan 4th.

I have a headache now.

112 Aye Pod  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:39:05am
What is shown is just the very final stage of doctors’ failed efforts to save Mahmoud. I suppose the reason their effort as shown is so gentle is that they have already in effect concluded that it is futile.

How is this a defence against the claim that the doctor was not performing a genuine cpr procedure in the video? It's actually an affirmation, what he has done here is claim that a little bit of faux cpr is part of normal procedure.

113 summergurl  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:39:22am

What is shown is just the very final stage of doctors’ failed efforts to save Mahmoud. I suppose the reason their effort as shown is so gentle is that they have already in effect concluded that it is futile.

Sounds vague and misleading - more likely scenario is he came in fatally wounded and all attempts to bring him back failed. At this point you and I would be beyond ourselves in grief not think "Here is an opportunity! Someone go get a camera and let's do it again."

114 opnion  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:39:37am

:"Mahmoud, sweetheart, you can't have lines if your part is playing dead.
If this was a Swedish art film, you could pop up & give a speech, but stay focused. OK everyone , take 5 & then Mahmoud back to dead."

115 rwmofo  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:39:38am

re: #44 Sharmuta

Wait- didn't cnn base the authenticity of this video off of Martin's reassurances, and now he admits he didn't even view the tape?!

Martin assured them that his tape would make "Da Jooooos" look bad. CNN doesn't really require anything else.

116 itellu3times  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:39:54am

re: #63 pious agnostic

Yeah, I had similar thoughts from the start, but since it would still be the Joos fault just for existing, it doesn't really matter.
/

117 Mike in Georgia  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:40:02am

Has Israel admitted that it was their drone that fired the rocket?
What kind of rocket was it?
What kind of drone was it?
Does the IDF have video from the drone?

Just curious.

118 Smorgasbord  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:40:02am

You can apologize to Paul Martin by creating a Fauxtography Of The Year award and nominating him for it. You should make it clear to him there will be stiff competition for the award. There is a lot of good faked stuff out there. Since you have revealed more of this faked stuff than anyone else, I think you should start it, and make it a yearly event. I am sure the other blogs would link to it.

119 gymnast  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:41:00am

re: #8 Bobblehead

The more he explains, the deeper hole he digs for himself.

Not all brass is used in faucet valves, some is used in the propaganda industry. Seems that Gazastans primary natural resources are brass and Islamic fanaticism. With enough catsup, some people are able make a steady diet of it.

120 Bloodnok  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:41:01am

Sorry Paul. Your trust:throw ratio is not good enough for me to buy this.

121 jcm  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:41:59am

I have an slightly different narrative to the story.

The boys are playing on the roof.
A rocket does hit killing or wounding them.
However the rocket is not Israeli, it's a Kassam.
Compare the footage of the roof and the small gouge in the roof with this picture of a Kassam impact (HT jaunte). The damage is very similar, much close than what a Hellfire or any other IDF missile would do.

From there the narrative is fairly accurate. Ashraf gets called home, the decision is made at that point to produce the story.

122 redc1c4  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:42:09am

"....we are very careful to ensure we work only with people we know and trust in the Gaza Strip."

that would be Hamas.

as for the appology: "We're sorry we fact checked yo' ass, but that's how we roll here @ LGF. HTH. HAND. ESAD."

123 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:42:13am

re: #66 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I'm mystified about why he (apparently) wanted to come here.
Why did he post #13 at the Stables?
We are not the intended audience.

I think he posted over there because it was a slow thread in the middle of the night, and no one would be around to question him.

he had to know we were all here anxiously awaiting his appearance. So he goes there? No reason for it, other than to be able to claim he answered the questions, without really putting himself into a situation where he would be really scrutinized.

Every time he says or writes something, there are more questions.

124 smokefire  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:42:25am

........still waiting for Mr. Martin to do expose on Hamas using hospitals, schools, mosques, and human shields to protect them while firing missiles.

.................................waiting, and waiting,and waiting

125 Kohenan The Barbarian  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:42:33am

This video is a sham --as a Physician I can Confirm that the CPR provided was useless ineffectual and incompetent-another use of a "dead child martyr "killed by the evil Zionists--this is but one of many staged theatrics to garner political and moral support for a Terrorist Muslim Gang that has no interest for respect for any human life including their own in the name of martyrdom and jihad murder---the Lebanon experience in 2006 with the "green helmet guy"popping up holding unscathed but dead child corpses directly points to the use of previously dead children from non trauma causes and kept in cold storage for this powerful and successful propaganda weapon to furthur the chances of survival of Hamas under fire from a vastly superior power--yet another degenerate Islamis Nazi operation that deserves total inihilation while ignoring this type of negative PR.

126 Sharmuta  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:43:03am

re: #92 reine.de.tout

Shar - no one has the entire video, that I know.
What was "fed" was snippets that matched the story they wanted to tell.

Either way, Martin says he didn't see any of it.
But CNN stands by their version based on his assurances.
This is so circular it's driving me nuts.

cnn "assured" us the video was genuine because Paul Martin said so.

Now Martin himself tells us WNF didn't view the video.

Perhaps cnn would like to reconsider at this point.

127 itellu3times  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:43:18am

re: #98 opinionated

tailored to the Hamas tactic of asking civilians to stand on the roofs of buildings so Israeli pilots will not bomb

holy shit

128 redc1c4  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:43:41am

re: #94 smokefire

I’ll let the doctors among us weigh in on this, but it seems ridiculous beyond belief to say that once you’ve decided a patient is dead, it’s a good idea to gently massage his abdomen with the tips of your fingers — and call it CPR.

Thank you Charles.
As someone that has done CPR, in ambulances, at the scene, and in an ER, you NEVER repeat NEVER, quit CPR, until instructed by the lead physican. The gentle massage, seen in the video, is just that, window dressing for the camera. PURE AND SIMPLE. When told, by a doctor, that "it's over", it's over. Dramatics are over the top, and disgusting.

yup: when they call the code, everything stops and the clean up begins.

BTDT.

129 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:43:53am

re: #121 jcm

I have an slightly different narrative to the story.

The boys are playing on the roof.
A rocket does hit killing or wounding them.
However the rocket is not Israeli, it's a Kassam.
Compare the footage of the roof and the small gouge in the roof with this picture of a Kassam impact (HT jaunte). The damage is very similar, much close than what a Hellfire or any other IDF missile would do.

From there the narrative is fairly accurate. Ashraf gets called home, the decision is made at that point to produce the story.

Nope.

Look at the blast residue on the roadway.
There was NONE of that on the roof.

130 irish rose  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:44:05am
groups like Hamas are not above using their own children to manipulate the feelings of Western audiences.

And they do... frequently.
Continue to question.

131 yma o hyd  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:44:25am

re: #112 Jimmah

How is this a defence against the claim that the doctor was not performing a genuine cpr procedure in the video? It's actually an affirmation, what he has done here is claim that a little bit of faux cpr is part of normal procedure.

Yep - this actually does admit that the CPR scene was faked.

132 smokefire  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:44:29am

"....we are very careful to ensure we work only with people we know and trust in the Gaza Strip."

that would be Hamas.

talk about conflict in terms.

Trust-Hamas, they are a conflict in terms

133 VegasRick  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:44:35am

re: #127 itellu3times

holy shit

Monsters.

134 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:44:44am

re: #126 Sharmuta

cnn "assured" us the video was genuine because Paul Martin said so.

Now Martin himself tells us WNF didn't view the video.

Perhaps cnn would like to reconsider at this point.

Perhaps they SHOULD reconsider at this point, regardless of whether they "would like to".

Are you going to contact CNN?

135 Idle Drifter  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:44:47am

Apology? I'm sorry I'm suffering from joke overload at this time to place an appropriate comment without getting banned from LGF. Please do not make any more apology demands until irony and sarcasm levels return to optimum operating capacity. However, there is no guarantee that resuming such demands will garner an appropriate response as irony and sarcasm levels could skyrocket at any time due to any action on the demander's part and/or his partners. Best course of action for the demander of the apology should be an expediant departure from propaganda on the world scene. Thank you and have a nice day.

136 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:44:53am

re: #121 jcm

I agree. It's very possible that the boys were killed by a Palestinian rocket or small mortar misfire.

137 Perry  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:44:57am

There's not enough people or equipment aoound for an emergency. No intubation gear at the head, no one drawing blood to see if ventilations are effective, no one DOING any ventilations, no central line for the proper drugs, one puny IV with no one doing anything to it, and they're all watching a monitor that is for monitoring only. In an emergency, he'd be on a 12-lead and they'd watch that. And he's very clean for a wounded child.

138 CIA Reject  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:45:29am
"And I think your blogger’s understanding of TV is somewhat flawed in this respect: ..."

Indeed. My understanding of TV is that it is, in the words of Edward R. Murrow, a medium to "inform and entertain". This stands in stark contrast to Martin's understanding of it which is, apparently, a medium to deceive and mislead.

IMHO it is Martin's understanding that is flawed, not mine.

139 swamprat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:45:34am

re: #34 reine.de.tout
Are we up to version 3 or version 4? I have lost count. The story is evolving, but I knew it would. We need more investigation of the roof scenes, There are pali-giblets scattered from one side of the roof to another. Has anybody done a splatter analysis of the material? And what the heck is that stuff supposed to be? Brain? Poo? It looks like cow manure.

140 opnion  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:45:44am

I will bet you that this whole thing will be turned into a play, you know like 'I am Rachel Corey". It could be called 'I am Mahmoud & dead as far as you know.' Maybe it could be a rock opera.

141 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:45:56am

re: #129 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Nope.

Look at the blast residue on the roadway.
There was NONE of that on the roof.


Where were the rocket parts too?

142 smokefire  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:46:02am

re: #125 Kohenan The Barbarian

BAM, thank you Doc.

143 itellu3times  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:46:03am

Mr. Martin, you getting any of this?

144 VegasRick  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:46:05am

re: #139 swamprat

Are we up to version 3 or version 4? I have lost count. The story is evolving, but I knew it would. We need more investigation of the roof scenes, There are pali-giblets scattered from one side of the roof to another. Has anybody done a splatter analysis of the material? And what the heck is that stuff supposed to be? Brain? Poo? It looks like cow manure.

Plan 9

145 Spiritualized  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:46:11am

ROPers about to get pissed! (Okay, more pissed than usual):

Prince Harry 'Paki' row: MoD launches formal inquiry over video gaffe

The Prince of Wales has also spoken to his son about the footage in which he also refers to Muslim insurgents as "[bigoted word]s" and makes a spoof telephone call to the Queen.

The 24-year-old Household Cavalry Lieutenant has issued a public apology but his comments were widely condemned as "sickening" and racist in tone.

The Ministry of Defence indicated that the prince could face disciplinary action and announced that the matter would be dealt with "in line with normal Army procedures".

146 Kronocide  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:46:33am

re: #121 jcm

Very compelling. Since the narrative delivered from the Disproportionality Drones says that the Hamas rockets are so minimal as to 'pester' Israel, that rooftop looks like it was hit with one of those smaller rockets.

I'm pretty sure and IDF missle would have leveled the building, if not destroyed the roof.

good catch.

147 redc1c4  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:47:22am

re: #98 opinionated

One can dissect each and every sentence and respond in a manner that evidences the lies and absurdity.

But that is not needed. One sentence says it all. It is so crazy, it is so absurd, it is so against any behavior that human beings experience. It is contrary to the innate nurturing instinct of normal families and societies, that it tells you all you need to know.

Mahmoud died because a rocket hit him while he was playing on the roof of his apartment.

Who the hell allows children to play on a roof in a war zone? In what human society would not family and even total stranger make sure that as much as humanly possible children are out of harms way?

Surprisingly, today the NY Times tells you why the may have been on a roof.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Imagine. Israel developed a system because they care more for Arab children then their own barbaric and savage people species.

wanna bet the Times misspelled "....forcing them onto the roofs...."?

148 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:47:22am

re: #112 Jimmah

How is this a defence against the claim that the doctor was not performing a genuine cpr procedure in the video? It's actually an affirmation, what he has done here is claim that a little bit of faux cpr is part of normal procedure.

EVERY TIME this guy Martin says or writes something, it just generates more and more questions.

Where there is truth, questions are eventually answered satisfactorily, in my experience.

Also in my experience, where truth does not exist - stories get tangled up, new explanations don't match up with older ones, and there are just more and more questions.

149 Wilderstad  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:47:24am

Lots of appeals for sympathy, fairness, apologies, respect and faith in the honesty of his 'reporter'.
It's all baloney, and a attempt to deflect justified criticism.

Mr. Martin, I'll put it to you plain. With all the staged photoshoots, photoshopping of images, misleading captioning and other visual fun and games we've been noticing, you're just not credible.
YOU NEED TO EARN OUR TRUST. You haven't done that. In fact what you've done with your statement is to make the initial story reek even more of manipulative tactics, an agenda and propaganda.

If you can't provide us with the real deal with no embroidery, we're not interested in listening to your protests.

150 Aye Pod  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:47:43am

We have to remember of course that the idea that this child's death could have been exploited for propoganda purposes is just too ugly to consider, and anyone who does is evil and sickening./

151 Spiritualized  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:47:47am

Ah, LGF auto-sensor is in place, Harry didn't say "Arabs".

152 Opinionated  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:48:12am
No-one in their right mind would suggest that any person would allow doctors to play games with a dying or dead younger brother.

Hamas has no problem with using their own as human shields, deliberately creating these "dead and the dying".

The dead and the dying are produced, one, to hinder Israel, and two, Mr Martin, to supply you with props for your productions.

My question for you, Mr Martin, who in their right mind, with an ounce of decency, would be- like you- a consumer of such a grotesque product.

153 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:48:23am

re: #136 Killgore Trout

I agree. It's very possible that the boys were killed by a Palestinian rocket or small mortar misfire.

Nope. (unless the projectile was inert, or was a dud)

See the photo of the road.
See my #129 pre-Boomer Marine brat
Go back and look at the videos of that roof.

There were only the three dark, oval-ish marks close to the marred concrete. Those black marks didn't exhibit the radiating pattern of an explosion.

154 phoenixgirl  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:48:33am

re: #137 Perry

There's not enough people or equipment aoound for an emergency. No intubation gear at the head, no one drawing blood to see if ventilations are effective, no one DOING any ventilations, no central line for the proper drugs, one puny IV with no one doing anything to it, and they're all watching a monitor that is for monitoring only. In an emergency, he'd be on a 12-lead and they'd watch that. And he's very clean for a wounded child.

his body seemed pretty flexible as well...i thought rigor mortis set in within hours of death.

155 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:48:38am

re: #151 Spiritualized

Ah, LGF auto-sensor is in place, Harry didn't say "Arabs".

What did he say? Can you post a link if you can't post the word with blanks?

156 Maximu§  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:49:03am

I'm outta here, gotta pick up dog s**t..........:(

I gotta get me one of those Robot Dogs.

157 phoenixgirl  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:49:56am

re: #155 goddessoftheclassroom

had to do with head wear

158 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:50:11am

re: #157 phoenixgirl

had to do with head wear

Ah. Thanks.

159 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:50:15am

re: #137 Perry

There's not enough people or equipment aoound for an emergency. No intubation gear at the head, no one drawing blood to see if ventilations are effective, no one DOING any ventilations, no central line for the proper drugs, one puny IV with no one doing anything to it, and they're all watching a monitor that is for monitoring only. In an emergency, he'd be on a 12-lead and they'd watch that. And he's very clean for a wounded child.

Yes. And Gilbert is shown placing the lead-pads ... *cough* ... rather late in the proceedure, apparently AFTER they already figured he was dead.

160 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:50:34am

re: #148 reine.de.tout

Also in my experience, where truth does not exist - stories get tangled up, new explanations don't match up with older ones, and there are just more and more questions.

Reminds me of conversations with teenaged children when they were caught being somewhere other than where they said originally.

161 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:50:39am
162 opnion  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:50:42am

Global Warming coming down again in the Land of Blago.
I am so sick of clearing the driveway.

163 Perry  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:50:53am

re: #154 phoenixgirl

Several hours. And if compressions were done well he might still have some color, but the compressions being done were crap.

164 Spiritualized  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:50:59am

re: #155 goddessoftheclassroom

What did he say? Can you post a link if you can't post the word with blanks?

I linked to the actual story in the first post, what he actually said is on there.

165 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:51:02am

re: #155 goddessoftheclassroom

Still laughing from your "first" joke yesterday. Top comment of past 24 hours. Your funniest post ever!

166 AmeriDan  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:51:07am

re: #145 Spiritualized

Muslim insurgents as "Arabs"

Can't have that, ol' chap. Not crickey at all.

167 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:51:11am

Let's assume, just for argument's sake, that Mr. Martin isn't lying. So asking, what kind of freaking morons lets their kids play on a rooftop during air raids?

Did British kids play on the roof during the Blitz?

Is there anyone on the planet more freaking arrogant, and stupid, than this media asshole?

168 Maximu§  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:51:23am

re: #145 Spiritualized

ROPers about to get pissed! (Okay, more pissed than usual):

Prince Harry 'Paki' row: MoD launches formal inquiry over video gaffe

My opinion of Prince Harry went up after reading this....Pakistani rioters are on the streets of London calling for the Death of England, but no one is allowed to insult them?

169 Dar ul Harb  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:51:23am

Reposted from the overnight:

Mr. Martin appears to respond to a number of the questions that I asked in the earlier thread, so here are the questions and answers again:

Your company is apparently well known for its remarkable access to areas of conflict, particularly the Middle East. Do you feel any obligation (journalistic or otherwise) to inform your customers (or their viewers) what censorship restrictions your sources operate under in producing the stories you offer?

[Comment: No response yet.]

Could you provide any examples of stories your company has produced that present the stories of families of Israeli civilians killed or wounded by the Palestinian "resistance"?

WNF is proud to be a very independent producer of news and current affairs from ALL sides of a conflict. Presently I am in Israel filming with the Israeli medical teams who go to the sites of rocket attacks, for example.

[Comment: Well, at least we're glad you're going there, even if you didn't cite any particular examples that your company has already produced.]

If you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be?

[Comment: No response yet, but Mr. Martin is obviously a very busy man, without time to respond to questions beyond issuing a prepared statement.]

Does your company perform any editorial review of the stories your sources provide, or are they just edited together and offered to clients like CNN and U.K. Channel 4 News without any corroboration or editorial verification?

The tape, filmed by Ashraf’s cameraman, was fed to London and used by several outlets, without WNF itself actually having the facility to watch it beforehand. But having now done so we continue to stand by the complete genuineness of the footage.

.

[Comment: Indeed, we wouldn't have expected you to do otherwise.]

.

And a followup, what sorts of editorial quality control measures do you have in place, if any?

The fact that we have had both a personal and a commercial relationship with Ashraf Mashharawi is one good reason why we are relying ONLY on his services during this current conflict while I myself and our other people cannot enter Gaza itself. We have other Palestinians offering to work for us there but have turned all of them down so we can rely only on someone about whose integrity we have certainty.

[Comment: Well, thanks for not being with us this morning. We appreciate your time.]

--
I appreciate how Mr. Martin's latest comments provide an out not only for himself (I don't have the raw footage -it's in the war zone, and I didn't see it, and didn't edit it), but for his bereaved friend (the video was shot by his cameraman), in case the whole thing completely falls apart.

Can't hardly blame Mr. Martin for having second thoughts about showing up here, though.

It's quite formidable to think that you'll be cross-examined and whatever you say will be instantly picked apart by a jury of thousands of intelligent folks with centuries of combined experience in a vast array of different vocations...

(Doesn't quite seem fair, does it?)

170 ted  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:51:31am

"What is shown is just the very final stage of doctors’ failed efforts to save Mahmoud. I suppose the reason their effort as shown is so gentle is that they have already in effect concluded that it is futile."

I'm a doctor. This is absurd on so many levels. There is no such thing as "gentle", "compassionate Palestinian" CPR. It's all or nothing. The goal is to pump blood. Do you continue CPR on a dead person...?

Martin wants us to believe this. Why doesn't he quit. Stop digging the hole deeper.

171 stevieray  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:51:34am

If anybody had any doubts, they can now be put to rest. CNN believes in the "Fake but True" school of journalism.

Any evidence that fits their pre-existing narrative, no matter how flimsy, is useful... anything that refutes the narrative must go through layers of fact-checking -- an information biopsy -- before it will be trusted.

... and CNN has decided the Palestinians are the "good guys", so they get the benefit of the doubt. More Arabs than Israelis, you know... bigger future market!

172 splat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:52:24am

re: #155 goddessoftheclassroom

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Harry is JUST like his grandfather, if anyone remembers the thing Philip said about the Scotts and the Chinese. I doubt it's malicious and he probably thinks he's been humorous in context, but just not very appropriate for someone in his position.

173 Opinionated  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:52:31am

On the subject of hospitals:

The Israeli intelligence chief, Yuval Diskin, in a report to the Israeli cabinet, said that the Gaza-based leadership of Hamas was in underground housing beneath the No. 2 building of Shifa Hospital, the largest in Gaza.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

174 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:53:02am

re: #149 Wilderstad

Lots of appeals for sympathy, fairness, apologies, respect and faith in the honesty of his 'reporter'.
It's all baloney, and a attempt to deflect justified criticism.

Mr. Martin, I'll put it to you plain. With all the staged photoshoots, photoshopping of images, misleading captioning and other visual fun and games we've been noticing, you're just not credible.
YOU NEED TO EARN OUR TRUST. You haven't done that. In fact what you've done with your statement is to make the initial story reek even more of manipulative tactics, an agenda and propaganda.

If you can't provide us with the real deal with no embroidery, we're not interested in listening to your protests.

Quoting because I think this deserves a repeat.

175 jcm  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:53:14am

re: #129 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Nope.

Look at the blast residue on the roadway.
There was NONE of that on the roof.

True, but they had to clean up the Kassam parts so they would show..... They roof was too staged IMHO, the blocks the chair etc...

176 redc1c4  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:53:27am

re: #162 opnion

Global Warming coming down again in the Land of Blago.
I am so sick of clearing the driveway.

then i won't tell you it's going to be 80+ here today.....

/white smoke

177 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:53:39am

re: #165 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You are so kind!

178 jaunte  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:53:49am

The message is more important than the people.

"Two Norwegian doctors have worked hard for seven days to save lives in Gaza. But to report to the outside world about what is happening in the war assessing the more important. - Our witness function and to convey what is actually happening have been more important [than actually delivering competent medical care]," says the doctor Erik Fosse to VG Nett.
[Link: blogg.svansbo.se...]

179 Dar ul Harb  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:53:52am

Also from the overnight:

WNF is investigating (and has also asked the IDF) whether unmanned drones have cameras which produce only fuzzy pictures and therefore cannot or did not distinguish whether figures moving on a roof are fighter or just kids. That may well be the case.

While you're doing that, Mr. Martin, could WNF bother to investigate whether the IDF in fact has any armed unmanned drones, and identify which if any of the missiles in the IDF inventory are likely capable of causing such little apparent damage as was shown on the roof of your source's apartment building, while at the same time being lethal to two children playing on the roof?

180 jwb7605  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:54:43am

OT:
7-5 Philly.
The perfect football game would end with a score of 4-2.

181 opnion  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:54:56am

re: #176 redc1c4

then i won't tell you it's going to be 80+ here today.....

/white smoke

Thank God, you didn't tell me!(:

182 yma o hyd  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:55:05am

Here's another fine weaselly paragraph from thet e-mail:

'For example, WNF is investigating whether unmanned drones have cameras which produce only fuzzy pictures and therefore cannot or did not distinguish whether figures moving on a roof are fighter or just kids. That may well be the case. WNF is proud to be a very independent producer of news and current affairs from ALL sides of a conflict. Presently I am in Israel filming with the Israeli medical teams who go to the sites of rocket attacks, for example.'

A 'very independent' producer?
So one can be semi-independent? Or dependent?
Use of superfluous adjectives always is detrimental to what one wants to convey ...(might ahve said something stronger, but I'll refrain ...!)

The other interesting points are his hints that the IDF may have pictures of this, fuzzy or not, which he imlies ought to be released.
Heh - was it really the IDF who killed those lads, or more hamas?

And see his last point - filming with Israeli medical teams going to sites of rocket attacks.
Really?
Where are those videos then? Its not as if there haven't been any such attcks recently ... and funnily enough, the Israeli TV channels do quite a good job putting these on youtube already - not that any MFM is using that footage ...

False excuses - which have nothing to do with the subject at hand, and are used to obfuscate the issue.

183 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:55:31am

re: #28 Sharmuta

especially when alleging things that will be hurtful to other human beings

So emotions should trump facts. Gottcha.

So calling Jews "the new Nazis" isn't hurtful?

Oops, forgot that to these "people" Jews aren't really human beings.

184 splat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:55:37am

re: #7 jaunte

I'll say I'm sorry.

"I'm sorry you're a liar, Mr. Martin."

Alternatively...
"I'm sorry you're a naive terrorist enabling stooge Mr.Martin."

185 jaunte  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:56:18am

re: #184 splat

You're a nicer person than I am.

186 newsjunkie_ky  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:57:18am

Thank goodness we now can be shown the truth behind the propaganda. Just wondering how many fake 'news' items we were shown, and we believed, before there was a way to debunk them? It's scary to think about all the fake 'facts' we have been subjected to prior to the Internet.

Before LGF the 'memo' would have been believed by all, and rather would never have been exposed.

187 vagabond trader  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:57:39am

Mr. Martin, the fact that you have "reliable" Hamas sources pretty much says it all.The same Hamas which hides itself and murders rivals in hospitals, stashes its weapons amongst civilians, including children, and does absolutely nothing to advance life while worshipping death. This Jewess will apologize when your Arab friends leave Israel in peace and cease threatening the destruction of my people.

188 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:57:52am
189 Perry  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:58:40am

re: #187 vagabond trader

Oxymoron of the day------reliable Hamas sources

190 yma o hyd  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:58:50am

re: #150 Jimmah

We have to remember of course that the idea that this child's death could have been exploited for propoganda purposes is just too ugly to consider, and anyone who does is evil and sickening./

Yeah - and need to apologise forthwith!

/

191 swamprat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:59:26am

Poor Mahmoud and......wait who is the other one? You know, the one not mentioned in this incarnation of the tragedy? The one who has no picture, or record of death at the hospital? The other person who died on the roof, who no one wants to talk about? poor Achmed, or Ahmed, or something?
I think I found a Christmas photo; Achmed

192 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 10:59:31am

The last paragraph:

Finally, we welcome and encourage and salute scrutiny of the media, but we urge bloggers first to think before they leap to the keyboard, and then to be moderate and considerate, especially when alleging things that will be hurtful to other human beings.

Would Mr. Martin please ask Hamas to follow this approach?

193 Fat Jolly Penguin  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:00:11am
No-one in their right mind would suggest that any person would allow doctors to play games with a dying or dead younger brother.

Applicable phrase bolded. These sick freaks so rarely are.

194 Racer X  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:00:11am

CBS: Fake, but accurate.
CNN: Fake, but accurate.

MSM: Fake, but INaccurate.

Do we have to call bullshit on everything they feed us?

195 Perry  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:00:46am

re: #194 Racer X
Yep. No naps.

196 jcm  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:00:52am

re: #194 Racer X

Do we have to call bullshit on everything they feed us?

Until they stop.

197 VegasRick  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:01:25am

re: #196 jcm

Until they stop.

Until they go out of business.

198 VegasRick  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:02:01am

Damn! No boom, boom on Gazacam.

199 yma o hyd  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:02:39am

re: #167 Alouette

Let's assume, just for argument's sake, that Mr. Martin isn't lying. So asking, what kind of freaking morons lets their kids play on a rooftop during air raids?

Did British kids play on the roof during the Blitz?

Is there anyone on the planet more freaking arrogant, and stupid, than this media asshole?

as Mr martin is in israel right now, and is, according to his own words, filming with israeli emdical teams attending site of Hamas rocket attacks - he might perhaps care to ask where the Israeli children are playing - and where they have been playing for the last eight years?

Certainly not on rooftops. Nor in playgrounds ...

200 MIRV  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:03:12am
"We would expect even the most objective Western journalist to be somewhat upset when he has to carry his own 12-year-old brother to hospital, fatally wounded by a rocket while playing on the roof of his own home."

Hold on a second... What the? Oh, it's ok. Just my kid playing on the roof of the house again. Good thing there's not a war on. Somebody could get hurt.

201 AmeriDan  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:03:15am

Mr Martin,

Your benefactors see you as an infidel and have one of three plans for you once sharia is in place.

1. Death

2. Conversion to Islam

3. Slavery to Islam

Which we be your pick, and do you believe that being last in line will make it seem easier?

202 guftafs  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:03:32am
groups like Hamas are not above using their own children to manipulate the feelings of Western audiences.

It's an old tactics (at least using children counting on the decency of the enemy):

In the 12 year civil war in Lebanon, Arafat recruited eleven year olds to become what was described by the press as RPG kids. An RPG (Rocket-Propelled Grenade) is a shoulder fired missile, used against ground vehicles. An RPG doesn't know that the finger on its trigger is just 11 years old. Their eyesight is young and clear; the weapon fires and people are killed. What a lesson for kids! Arafat's motive was that Israeli soldiers would hesitate to shoot kids. It worked. Many Israelis became victims as they did, indeed, hesitate in defending themselves against armed kids.

203 mean Gene  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:03:50am

If this guy honestly believes his camera man is fair and balanced we are in for a shock to the left/Islamist convergence once Congress passes that Fairness Doctrine here, aren't we.
And look at the qualifiers in his email:
probably
I suppose
I think
He was (but is no longer) employed

Finally he says:
Mahmoud died because a rocket hit him while he was playing on the roof of his apartment. It is a legitimate story for the media to cover.
No.
If any Israeli rocket had ''hit him'' there would only be bits of Mahmoud all over.
Therefore he was killed by being near something that hit the roof.
All the examining of the evidence in the video leads to one conclusion: Hamas' own Qassam-type rocket hit that roof.
THAT is the legitimate story for the media to cover.
Also the ''gentle'' ''CPR that could never have helped?
That, also should be big news inside Gaza.
All the poeple of Gaza should learn that doctors play at treating them in Gaza's hospitals under the governance of Hamas.

204 Bloodnok  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:04:07am

re: #182 yma o hyd

"WNF is proud to be a very independent producer of news and current affairs from ALL sides of a conflict."

I agree with you. If 'ya gotta say you are....you're not.

205 Racer X  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:04:23am

re: #198 VegasRick

Damn! No boom, boom on Gazacam.

Damn thing is not working for me. It loads for a few minutes. When I click play, video streams for about 2 mins then loops back to the beginning.

206 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:04:44am
The death itself and the fact that Ashraf’s cameraman had filmed all the PREVIOUS events, and the subsequent return to the home with the body, and the funeral, would have been dramatic enough... in fact the hospital post-death concluding effort by the doctor(s) in no way enhanced the power of the filming - if anything it weakened it... just a body lying there and Ashraf mourning over his dead brother’s lifeless corpse would have been more powerful.

This is what sickens me. This entire paragraph analyzes the death from one standpoint, "How can we win an oscar in the 'grievance theater'?

Sick.

207 imogene  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:05:28am

Looks like inciting violence against the competition pays.

That's just not right.

VOTE

208 swamprat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:05:34am

Why is everyone so tigh-lipped about Achmed getting instantly killed on the roof? No pictures. No death certificate.No mourning.

"Achmed, he died too."

209 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:05:38am

I just read a Mark Steyn post on "The Corner" at NRO ([Link: corner.nationalreview.com...] He's posted a reader's response that makes me sick:

[UPDATE: A reader responds:

You and Hinderaker can rationalize all you want. These little mites are still very dead and their images are plastered around the world. Folks can do the math. It's about 825 Palestinians versus 12 Israelis of whom 8 were soldiers. The world is recoiling in revulsion. Even Jewish communities in Europe, and some I've spoken to in the US, are appalled from genuine abhorrence but also possibly from a fear of the demons that this is unleashing. Truman wasn't far off the mark in his comments about the Jewish mentality of which you are alas a prime example.]

I have to calm down before I start tearing this apart.

210 yma o hyd  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:05:45am

re: #172 splat

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Harry is JUST like his grandfather, if anyone remembers the thing Philip said about the Scotts and the Chinese. I doubt it's malicious and he probably thinks he's been humorous in context, but just not very appropriate for someone in his position.

You all saw, I hope, that this video is three years old ...
In fact, he ought to be put into the tower straightaway, as he's also making fun of his own Granny!

211 Last Mohican  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:06:11am

I have spent some time pursuing the links provided by morning star, with respect to the “Norwegian Connection” to the events depicted in the CNN and UK Channel 4 videos. I’ll summarize them in a four-part document that I’ll post here, as I have time to do so. As you’ll see here, there are some interesting conclusions to be drawn, mainly that Mads Gilbert and Ashraf Mashhrawi were probably not strangers when they apparently met in a Gaza hospital during the tragic events of the apparent death of Mashharwi’s young brother. My main intention in posting this is to provide some names and links, in case others would like to investigate further. There’s nothing definite to be learned about the events in the hospital, other than what we already know: the resuscitation scene in the hospital was definitely fake.

212 Dustyvet  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:06:51am

re: #109 pre-Boomer Marine brat

(-:
There is method in your acting.

Wear the right costume, and the part will play itself...:)

213 swamprat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:06:59am

re: #208 swamprat

tight-lipped

214 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:07:02am

Well -
CNN can "stand by" this footage and the story all they want.

I believe it was staged for the purpose of the emotional impact of the story, and nothing more.

If that child was dead, and I have no reason to believe otherwise, then using that dead body in this way was a particularly gruesome and horrific insult to the preciousness and sanctity of human life and death.

CNN says Mr Martin vouched for the truthfullness of that video. Mr Martin has admitted that the video was used before he saw it; and says he believes Ashraf because they've worked together for several years and he likes Ashraf.

CNN is satisfied with that, despite all the very reasonable questions about the video and the story.

This is not reporting. This is editorializing and propagandizing on behalf of HAMAS, and CNN should be deeply embarrassed and ashamed. But they don't appear to be. They think the American public is completely stupid.

215 AmeriDan  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:07:13am

And Iran continues to build their bomb.

Can you say diversion?

216 jayzee  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:07:28am
I suppose the reason their effort as shown is so gentle is that they have already in effect concluded that it is futile.

10 years ago (Dec 8,2000) I arrived at the hospital to see my father being worked on after he coded. I will never forget that. He was in multi organ system failure, and had been sick for years, but I cannot forget the noise, the energy that went into attempts to revive him.

I watched a team of nurses and doctors work on him for 10 minutes to no avail. He passed away. I know there may be a difference in the way adults are worked on compared to children, but still, the excuse above seem insane!

217 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:08:17am

re: #216 jayzee

10 years ago (Dec 8,2000) I arrived at the hospital to see my father being worked on after he coded. I will never forget that. He was in multi organ system failure, and had been sick for years, but I cannot forget the noise, the energy that went into attempts to revive him.

I watched a team of nurses and doctors work on him for 10 minutes to no avail. He passed away. I know there may be a difference in the way adults are worked on compared to children, but still, the excuse above seem insane!

{jayzee}

218 Opinionated  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:08:32am

I just watched the British 4 report for the first time. I will ignore the blood libel- imagine, even in the 21st Century- that Israel DELIBERATELY targeted this kid for murder, and simply ask, how the kid who looks uninjured when in his brother's arms in the living room, is shown to be bloody as he is going to be lowered into the grave.

And on a side note. We have all unfortunately seen mourning. We know what it looks like. We know how tears look as the flow freely. Something odd about the behavior of people at the grave. It looks fake.

219 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:09:16am

re: #199 yma o hyd

as Mr martin is in israel right now, and is, according to his own words, filming with israeli emdical teams attending site of Hamas rocket attacks - he might perhaps care to ask where the Israeli children are playing - and where they have been playing for the last eight years?

Certainly not on rooftops. Nor in playgrounds ...

Israeli children have bomb shelters to go to in the event of a missile strike, and warning systems in place to let them know when to get to a bomb shelter.

The government of Israel has built a system to protect its citizens.

Why does Gaza not have such protections? They apparently have been able to build undergound bunkers for their leadership. So they have the know-how. Don't you think it would occur to any rational person to provide the same thing for citizens in danger?

220 swamprat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:09:22am

re: #209 goddessoftheclassroom

I just read a Mark Steyn post on "The Corner" at NRO ([Link: corner.nationalreview.com...] He's posted a reader's response that makes me sick:


I have to calm down before I start tearing this part.

"Their" images?
Really?
Show me tragedy #2.
Picture of Achmed?

221 Longbow  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:09:52am

Paul Martin is a very lousy and incompetent liar . I have seen the resuscitation part of the video and I don't give a damn if what we saw was the very end of the rescue effort because if they are coding a trauma victim especially a child in the ER , there should be blood products infusing into the patient , there should be at the very least more than three people assisting in the code , the team leader should not be putting cardiac leads at the tail end of the said code . Also , when we do a code , the patient is going to be naked from the waist up and not covered up with a blanket while doing chest compressions , modesty is the least of the patient's problem . Also , when the code team leader orders , stop CPR , the code team and the rest of the staff members will then cease the rescue effort , family or no family present .

222 Perry  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:10:17am

re: #216 jayzee
I am very sorry you had to see that.

223 AmeriDan  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:10:35am

re: #219 reine.de.tout

That's a rhetorical question, right?

224 yma o hyd  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:10:54am

re: #203 mean Gene

If this guy honestly believes his camera man is fair and balanced we are in for a shock to the left/Islamist convergence once Congress passes that Fairness Doctrine here, aren't we.
And look at the qualifiers in his email:
probably
I suppose
I think
He was (but is no longer) employed

Finally he says:
Mahmoud died because a rocket hit him while he was playing on the roof of his apartment. It is a legitimate story for the media to cover.
No.
If any Israeli rocket had ''hit him'' there would only be bits of Mahmoud all over.
Therefore he was killed by being near something that hit the roof.
All the examining of the evidence in the video leads to one conclusion: Hamas' own Qassam-type rocket hit that roof.
THAT is the legitimate story for the media to cover.
Also the ''gentle'' ''CPR that could never have helped?
That, also should be big news inside Gaza.
All the poeple of Gaza should learn that doctors play at treating them in Gaza's hospitals under the governance of Hamas.

Yes - and to further the aims od Hamas, not to help their kids survive.

225 BBev  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:11:08am

re: #197 VegasRick

Until they go out of business.

I think that time is close at hand

226 VegasRick  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:12:02am

re: #225 BBev

I think that time is close at hand

Me too, and not soon enough.

227 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:12:07am

re: #210 yma o hyd

You all saw, I hope, that this video is three years old ...
In fact, he ought to be put into the tower straightaway, as he's also making fun of his own Granny!

Harry was acting like any other young man in that age group would act.

I didn't find he was particularly disrespectful in the scene where he's on the phone with "Granny". It seemed to me he was just trying to be "one of the guys".

228 Last Mohican  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:13:16am

The Norwegian Connection
Part One: Tromsø, Norway and Vennskap Tromsø-Gaza

Tromsø is the eighth largest municipality in Norway, although its population is less than 65,000. It lies in the very sparsely populated far North of Norway, nearly 200 miles above the arctic circle, near the northern tip of Scandinavia. A glance at Google Maps will show you how isolated the place is; the largest cities in Norway, Oslo and Bergen, are both over a thousand miles away.

Tromsø’s size and geographic isolation should be taken into account when considering the remarkable extent of the town’s involvement in Palestinian affairs, especially with respect to Gaza, and the likelihood that any two pro-Palestinian activists in Tromsø knowing each other. This small town claims to have sent more health care workers to the Palestinian territories than any other city in the world, thanks largely to the efforts of Dr. Mads Gilbert, an anesthesiologist by training, and a professor of Emergency Medicine at the University of Tromsø since 1995. Gilbert has dedicated much of his life to working in Palestinian hospitals, and to championing the Palestinian cause, often by expressing his support for Palestinian terrorist groups. Tromsø is a frequent site of pro-Palestinian demonstrations and other events, and on July 23, 2001, Tromsø officially entered into a Twinning Agreement with the City of Gaza.

During the past few years, many of Tromsø’s numerous pro-Palestinian activities have been organized and funded by a group called Vennskap Tromsø-Gaza, or “Friendship Tromsø-Gaza.” I will abbreviate this group’s name as FTG. Its website, which contains abundant, detailed information about its activities, is here. The website is in Norwegian, but reasonable translations can be obtained by going to the website via Google's Language Tool and then navigating through the site after that. The easiest way to navigate the website is to go first to its home page through the Google language tool, and then navigate around the website. For that reason, rather than posting direct links to parts of the site, I’ll just explain which links to follow from the home page. When quoting from FTG’s site in English, I’ll actually be quoting Google’s translation.

Though FTG collects small quantities of funds from its few members in the form of membership dues, it is almost exclusively supported by project grants from its parent organization Vennskap Nodr/Sør (“Friendship North/South”) a Norwegian group that promotes dialogue by supporting cultural exchange between Norwegians and people elsewhere in the world via region-specific groups like Friendship Tromsø-Gaza. For example, in its 2007 budget, FTG’s only sources of revenue were 400 (dollars, I assume, maybe krone?) from dues that were paid by its 18 members, and 79,600 (again, dollars?) from Friendship North/South. (on their website, click “board” and then “accounting 2007” for budget information, and “minutes from the annual 21 february 2007” for the number of members ). Friendship North/South, in turn, appears to be largely supported by NORAD, the Norwegian Agency for Development Cooperation, a directorate for cooperation operating under the Norwegian Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

229 newsjunkie_ky  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:13:23am

re: #207 imogene

Looks like inciting violence against the competition pays.

That's just not right.

VOTE


wasn't andysullivan's blog on there, where is it now?

230 Dustyvet  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:13:36am

re: #220 swamprat

"Their" images?
Really?
Show me tragedy #2.
Picture of Achmed?

Image: Achmed.jpg

231 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:13:51am

re: #223 AmeriDan

That's a rhetorical question, right?

of course.

232 jayzee  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:14:35am

Perry and Goddess,

Thanks. I actually begged them to let me into the ICU-it's a long story but I had to be there. I could've done without reliving the visual just now though. ;)

233 DEZes  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:14:50am

"I might also add that trying to suggest Ashraf has some political agenda is also a false trail."

Just how deep in Hamas pocket is this stooge?

234 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:15:03am

re: #232 jayzee

Perry and Goddess,

Thanks. I actually begged them to let me into the ICU-it's a long story but I had to be there. I could've done without reliving the visual just now though. ;)

I'm glad they honored your request.

235 AmeriDan  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:15:24am
re: #197 VegasRick

Until they go out of business

re: #225 BBev

I think that time is close at hand

A Jihadi Closeout Blowout!

236 Last Mohican  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:15:35am

Persons listed as having served on FTG’s board, or attending its board meetings since their beginning in 2006 through 2008, include:

2006
Founding board members: Inger Hilde Trandem, Knut Borud, Anja Roth Niemi
Other attendees: Magnus Maeland, Mads Gilbert (October 30, 2006), Aina Sinjer, Kristina Torbergsen, Astrid Eriksen

2007
Attendees: Inger Hilde Trandem, Magnus Maeland, Knut Borud, Anja Roth Niemi, Christiane Kolberg, Magne Amundsen

2008
Board members: Inger Hilde Trandem, Knut Borod, Christiane Kolberg, Sunniva Andreassen, Ehab Khalil, Stephen Jorstad
Other meeting attendees: Silje Ryvold, Nehal Afan

Because of Tromsø’s small size and geographic isolation, it seems reasonable to suspect that prominent members of its pro-Palestinian activist community might know each other well. Furthermore, FTG’s website contains several mentions of Mads Gilbert. The earliest of these is in the minutes from the FTG board meeting of August 29, 2006. Apparently, Gilbert worked with the Municipality of Tromsø and Gaza to arrange the cooperative establishment of a “prosthetic center” in Gaza. The minutes specifically state that “this has happened without the involvement of Friendship Tromsø-Gaza, but has undoubtedly been very positive in relation to the activities we want to create friendship between the cities.” The nature of the communication between FTG and Gilbert at this time is unclear, and it may only have been a letter or a phone call.

The second mention of Gilbert on FTG’s site is in the minutes from the board meeting of October 30, 2006. Mads Gilbert attended the meeting. It is reported that Gilbert had contacted the mayor of Gaza on behalf of FTG, regarding the establishment of internet contact between Tromsø and Gaza, a project for which FTG intended to seek financial support from Friendship North/South.

The third mention of Gilbert on FTG’s site is in the minutes from the board meeting on November 11, 2008. The minutes describe FTG’s intention to hold, on November 19, a public meeting, in which the group would report on events in Gaza. The order of speakers at that meeting was: (1) Christiane Kolberg, (2) Silje Ryvoll, and (3) Mads Gilbert. It appears that the meeting actually took place on November 26, and involved those three speakers. It is mentioned in the “news” portion of FTG’s site, and it apparently took place at someplace called “the LO-built, Skippergata 41.” The notes of November 11, 2008 mention that Christiane Kolberg had not been able to travel to Gaza recently, and therefore it would be Made Gilbert, who had been in Gaza from the end of October to November, would report on behalf of FTG regarding recent developments there.

FTG was first organized in 2003, when it was not yet part of Friendship North/South. The first grant received by FTG from Friendship North/South that is mentioned on FTG’s website occurred in 2004. (see the “Friendship Group” portion of FTG’s website). The only use of that money mentioned by FTG on its site was an allocation to Anniken Hoel, a Norweigian filmmaker, whose earlier credits had included a 2003 film about the last days in Baghdad before the war broke out. Hoel traveled to Gaza and met with “filmmakers who wanted to use the film to describe their situation.” Hoel brought some of these films back to Tromsø, and they were used to accompany a concert of Palestinian music in Tromsø in Spring 2006. Hoel’s meetings began what was to become a major theme of Friendship Tromsø-Gaza’s activities: supporting the Palestinian struggle against Israel by supporting the work of Palestinian filmmakers.

237 swamprat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:15:43am

re: #214 reine.de.tout

Correction;
Those children
Two.
I Will not let poor Achmed go unmourned!
We must find out all we can about poor cousin Achmed!

Of whom I have seen no pictures, or any facts at all for that matter.

Don't fall for the magicians trick. Don't look where he points. Look "behind the curtain". The girl with the curves is there for a reason.

238 jcm  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:16:56am

re: #227 reine.de.tout

Harry was acting like any other young man in that age group would act.

I didn't find he was particularly disrespectful in the scene where he's on the phone with "Granny". It seemed to me he was just trying to be "one of the guys".

We have no idea how isolated the "royals" are in British society. And how desperate a young man would be to fit in with is peers in a military unit.

239 yma o hyd  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:17:20am

re: #209 goddessoftheclassroom

I just read a Mark Steyn post on "The Corner" at NRO ([Link: corner.nationalreview.com...] He's posted a reader's response that makes me sick:

I have to calm down before I start tearing this apart.

Makes me sick and effen angry.

Its the age-old ugly lie, that the Jews are guilty for everything, and anything they do makes them more guilty.

Was it not sufficient that six million Jews did nothing and went to their death because of it?
It cannot be this fact which the world cannot forgive the Jews - this hate started much much earlier.

And why is it that the World howls about the death of terrorists?
Yes, according to the UN a quarter were civilians who were killed in Gaza - what does this make the other three quarters?
Play-group leaders? Community organisers?

240 coquimbojoe  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:17:49am

re: #238 jcm

You flooded out or you OK? Hoping all is well...

241 BBev  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:17:56am

re: #227 reine.de.tout

Harry was acting like any other young man in that age group would act.

I didn't find he was particularly disrespectful in the scene where he's on the phone with "Granny". It seemed to me he was just trying to be "one of the guys".

Hell they have to be raging about something all the time. It really must suck to be them.

242 Morganfrost  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:19:05am
I might also add that trying to suggest Ashraf has some political agenda is also a false trail. He does not.

Wow! An "independent" Palestinian cameraman without a political agenda. Now that would be a news story!

243 Last Mohican  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:19:54am

The Norwegian Connection
Part Two: Friendship Tromsø-Gaza’s Early Involvement in Pro-Palestinian Film

As the host of not one but two annual international film festivals, Tromsø provides a fertile environment for international activism through filmmaking. One of these festivals is the Tromsø International Film Festival, held annually in January. TIFF appears to present films with a wide range of subject matter. The other festival, the Nordic Youth Film Festival (NUFF or NYFF), began in 1991, takes place annually in May or June, and appears to take a decidedly far-left-wing political approach to film, evidenced not only by the content of its films, but by the fact that some of NUFF’s posters have featured a large “worker’s fist” or the term “filmrevolusjon,” and by the fact that the top of its website features a Palestinian propaganda photo from the current Israel-Hamas war, and a pro-Palestinian film produced at NUFF 2006. Before each year’s NUFF international film program and competition, small groups of aspiring filmmakers from around the world (ages 15-25, according to FTG’s site), are assigned into small groups, in which they produce their own films, with the help of more senior filmmakers who have gathered for the festival.

Since it was first organized into its present form in May 2006, Friendship Tromsø-Gaza has used NUFF to promote pro-Palestinian activism through film. Indeed, the minutes from FTG’s very first board meeting, which took place on June 12, 2006, mention only one specific project: “Nordic Youth Film Festival (NUFF), and visits from Gaza in that regard.” (Click the “board” part of the website, then navigate to the minutes from the 2006 board meetings) Along with NUFF, the Palestine Committee in Tromsø, and the Municipality of Tromsø, FTG was a co-sponsor of the “focus on Palestine” (click the “projects” part of the site) which NUFF incorporated into its 2006 Festival, which took place between June 6 and June 15.

The “focus on Palestine” had several elements. Three young Palestinian filmmakers were brought to Tromsø for the project: Nehal Afan, Badreia Sugar and Ahmed Mashharawi, who is also sometimes listed as Ahmed El-Mashharawi or Ahmed Khalid Mashharawi. An older, more established Palestinian filmmaker, Rashid Mashharawi, was also brought to the festival, and served on its panel of judges. Although Rashid and Ahmed are both from Gaza, there is no mention of whether they were related or knew each other. One of the student groups’ films made before the festival was, according to FTG’s August 29, 2006 meeting notes, inspired by the situation in Palestine, and was on the subject of “crossing borders.” That may be the film that is now on NUFF’s homepage.

During the festival itself, three films about “Palestine” were shown. One was made by Anniken Hoel, whom FTG had sent to Gaza as early as 2004, with a cast of two Palestinians:

Mohajaba
Norge/Palestina 2006 doc 17'00

Prod: Ingeborg Solvang

Dir: Anniken Hoel

Script: Anniken Hoel

Music: Rune Lindbæk, Bjørn Harald Bøe 

Cast: Nehal Afana, Badreia Sukkar

244 Athos  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:20:45am

Why am I reminded, reading this, of the same double-faced, mealy mouthed excuses explanations from other media organizations - ranging from SeeBS on Rathergate, to CNN on Eason Jordan, to Reuters and AP on their fauxtography, to France 2 on their complicity in the al-Dura hoax.......

Despite his explanations and assertions of trust - the core fallacies and questions around the facts as they are presented remain unanswered. The fact that they still lack cogent explanations combined with the history of media organizations being willing arms of the propaganda wings of Fatah, Hamas, Hizbollah, and other terrorist organizations still have me convinced that this is just another case of propaganda.

245 mean Gene  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:21:25am

re: #242 Morganfrost

Wow! An "independent" Palestinian cameraman without a political agenda. Now that would be a news story!

AND Hamas let's him run around with his knees intact!
Hard to imagine!
They don't let others who are not PRO-Hamas do that.
I even read about a man who they shot 26 times in one leg and 6 times in the other.
Just for being SUSPECTED of not being PRO-Hamas!

246 DaMav  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:22:00am

Paul Martin comments give one pause.
OK, having gotten the pause over with can we agree that Martin has just insulted our intelligence again by painting a propaganda pig with lipstick and trying to pass it off as a beauty queen.

Anyone with any significant medical training won't be taken in by Martin's propaganda movie. When I saw it I was reminded of rehearsal for a high school skit. For Martin to come back all indignant that anyone would dare question the authenticity of such an obvious fraud from the home of Pallywood is simply larding on another layer of dishonesty. Surely Martin is aware of the numerous cases of Fauxtography and staged events, yet he even admits he passed the video on to the gullible western media without reviewing it.

Take your 'apology' and shove it Mr. Martin. Anyone treating a dead 12 year old as a trophy prop for a propaganda video deserves all the opprobrium we can give them.

247 Last Mohican  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:22:25am

Another of the “Palestine” films was called “Tension,” and was directed by Rashid Mashharawi. No other credits are available on NUFF’s website. According to NUFF’s program listing:

Rashid Masharawi was born and raised in Shati refugee camp, Gaza Strip. He is a self-taught filmmaker, at eighteen beginning to work in the cinema industry and acquiring skills on over twenty films before starting himself to write and direct his own. Masharawi's films portray his knowledge of living under the Israeli Occupation in refugee camps, the new space of the intifada, as well as his constant reflection on cinema narrative:
"What I have been trying to do is make out of the Palestinian situation a cinema. I have something like fifteen films, between features, shorts, and documentaries, and together I feel they can offer a mirror and document of the Palestinian life in the last twenty years, in the same time to try to make cinema."

After a decade of work and establishing a name as a filmmaker, Masharawi founded in 1996 the Cinema Production and Distribution Center (CPC) in Ramallah, as a way for Palestinians to have the opportunity to acquire knowledge of the field of cinema by working in actual productions. The CPC also initiated the Mobile Cinema, which brings screenings to refugee camps in the form of an annual "Kids Film Festival."
NUFF will show his film "Tension".

CPC's website appears to be defunct at this time.

The final “Palestine” film was made by the younger Palestinian filmmaker, Ahmed Mashharawi, who was born in 1983, and therefore was 22 or 23 years old at the time of NUFF 2006. This film was called “The Young Boy and the Sea.” Here is NUFF’s program entry:

The Young Boy and the Sea
Palestina 2006 doc 15'00 

Prod: Nepras
Dir: Ahmed El-Mashharawi 

Script: Nehal Afana

Music: Badreia Sukkar

Cast: Mohammed Ali

Mohammed is a young Palestinian boy ,who lives in Der-El-Balah Camp in Gaza and works as a fisherman(boy). The film talks about one day of Mohammed's life. We film one day of Mohammed's life from the early morning until the end of the day. Mohammed is a yound boy who works as a fisherman(boy) in the morning then he goes to the school and continue his daily life.The film talks about the details of his life and the problems that face him in the Camp.

Ahmed Al-Mashharawi is a Palestinian fimmaker. He did a lot of documentaries for Arabic & Western channels e.g. - (Mashel ala Tareq El-Quds ) It's about eventes in El-Aqusa Revolt. - (Invasion) It's a documentary. - (Gun Men)& (Tunnels) They are two documentaries for (BBC4).
Ahmed, Nehal and Badreia will be at NUFF to present there film and participate at the workshops.

248 yma o hyd  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:22:27am

re: #219 reine.de.tout

Israeli children have bomb shelters to go to in the event of a missile strike, and warning systems in place to let them know when to get to a bomb shelter.

The government of Israel has built a system to protect its citizens.

Why does Gaza not have such protections? They apparently have been able to build undergound bunkers for their leadership. So they have the know-how. Don't you think it would occur to any rational person to provide the same thing for citizens in danger?

That is a question Mr Martin and his ilk will never ask.
Yes - hamas has bunkers for their leaders, and vast systems of tunnels - to fight the IDF.
So they ahve the technical know-how.
That tehre are no shelters for the Gazans just underlines the fact that for Hamas, its not about the civilians who alledgedly voted them into government - it is only, and was ever only, about eradicating Israel.
Nothing else.

249 VegasRick  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:22:27am

re: #242 Morganfrost

Wow! An "independent" Palestinian cameraman without a political agenda. Now that would be a news story!


"independent" Palestinian cameraman = terrorist sympathizer/enabler

250 Opinionated  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:22:56am
I might also add that trying to suggest Ashraf has some political agenda is also a false trail.

What about today? If Mashharawi believes that Israel deliberately murdered his brother can Martin still say with a straight face that Ashraf Mashharawi is an objective journalist?

You would have to be retarded to believe that claim.

So I assume Martin- nor any other Western news outlet- will no longer use any of Mashharawi's videos propaganda.

Is that a fact Mr Martin?

251 DEZes  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:23:30am

re: #242 Morganfrost

Wow! An "independent" Palestinian cameraman without a political agenda. Now that would be a news story!


The camera man is a Hamas propagandist at the very least and Martin knows it, no one on this site owes an apology to either of these terrorist shills.
I hope they like birds, because I gladly offer them 2 of those.

252 mean Gene  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:23:31am

And what per cent of people killed since IDF began ops were Gazans killed by Hamas, anyway?
One day alone Hamas murdered 35 men.
At that time it came to a full 10% of all deaths.
Where did they count?
Civilians?
I guess so.....they certainly were NOT Hamas!

253 Wilderstad  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:23:48am

Last Mohican.
Thanks for the digging into the background. Interesting. Very.

254 AmeriDan  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:24:09am

re: #237 swamprat

Don't fall for the magicians trick. Don't look where he points. Look "behind the curtain". The girl with the curves is there for a reason.

re: #215 AmeriDan

And Iran continues to build their bomb.

Can you say diversion?

255 jcm  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:24:27am

re: #240 coquimbojoe

You flooded out or you OK? Hoping all is well...

We're good, up on top of the bluff over looking Puget Sound and a bit inland so view, view properties start 6 blocks away. On top of a little hill in the neighborhood, it's downhill every way, on to the west down to Puget Sound.

Only "difficulty" for us is the goat milk for lactose intolerant kids. The shipment was on the other side of the floods so it's late.

The 10 month old went back to family, but we got a late night delivery of a 5 week old girl. Adjusting to losing one, and getting used to a new one.

256 smokefire  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:25:00am

the cynic that I am.
Palestinians/Arabs, are so concerned about their children (sarcasm), I mean honor killings, human shields, chronic lying, how much of a stretch would it be for this child to have been killed by his own, and then used for propaganda purposes? I mean, come on here, MSM, blaring about the atrocities of Israel, garnering sympathy for Gaza, is it that much to consider here?

257 gracie1  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:25:00am

Mr Martin, what kind of stupid morons do you think we are? Or better yet, what kind of stupid moron are you? The days when the MSM can air any kind of crap and fully expect the sheeple to accept it (it's on TV, it must be true!) is long gone. Get over yourselves! I'm a nurse, experienced in countless code situations, and that video is a FAKE. The boys head obviously suffered no trauma. The CPR was obviously pantomimed. Of course the monitor showed a flat line, the leads weren't even on the boy.

Next is the issue of the damage caused by the missile. I'm no expert in weapons, but it seems to me that it caused minor damage to the roof. Aren't the IDF missiles supposed to be vastly more powerfull than the ones being fired by Hamas? So which is it?

Charles is gracious enough to allow you an account here to "plead your case". The least you could do is stick around and respond to and take some responsibility for your crappy reporting.

258 FloridaAnole  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:25:20am

This Paul Martin dude is either astoundingly cynical, or else he has unintentionally written a comic masterpiece.

259 UberInfidel67  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:25:35am

re: #209 goddessoftheclassroom If you really want to be pissed off, I should reprint the letter to the editor that was in my local paper today. It goes on and on about how the US bends over for Israel because of religious beliefs. Also, did you know that the Jews are trying to rid the Middle East of all Arab presence? I am thinking up my response to this letter. I need information though. How big is Israel..what is her population compared to other muslim countries that surround her....things like that.

260 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:25:58am

re: #256 smokefire

the cynic that I am.
Palestinians/Arabs, are so concerned about their children (sarcasm), I mean honor killings, human shields, chronic lying, how much of a stretch would it be for this child to have been killed by his own, and then used for propaganda purposes? I mean, come on here, MSM, blaring about the atrocities of Israel, garnering sympathy for Gaza, is it that much to consider here?

I have no trouble believing that the child died as a result of Hamas, but I don't think he was intentionally killed.

261 yma o hyd  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:26:02am

re: #220 swamprat

"Their" images?
Really?
Show me tragedy #2.
Picture of Achmed?

You're putting the finger on an important point here - and your question needs to be asked repeatedly.

Why are there no pictures of Achmed?
Where is his grieving family?
Is he of no account - as all the other civilian dead?
Is it because he doesn't make for a good propaganda film?
Or are they 'saving' him for another edition?
Or was it indeed him we're being shown - and Mahmoud is only seen at the end, covered up totally?

262 Last Mohican  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:26:05am

FTG continued its patronage of pro-Palestinian filmmaking after NUFF 2006. The FTG board meeting minutes from March 27, 2007, shortly before NUFF 2007 occurred, describe how FTG planned to spend a new 150,000 dollar grant that it had received from Friendship North/South. Among these were “from Visit Gaza to NUFF: 45000 krone (the page is actually translated as “45000 million, but it appears that Google’s translator sometimes translates “krone” as “million”) . The minutes from the subsequent meeting, on April 30, 2007, mentioned that there would be three participants from Gaza coming to NUFF 2007.

One of these was Ahmed Mashharwai, who returned to Tromsø the following year for NUFF 2007, at which he presented his film “From the Camp.” That film can be viewed in its entirety here.

That film’s credits are as follows:

Cameraman & Director: Ahmed Mashharawi
Script: Raid Dawoud
Editing: Ashraf Mashharawi
Narrator: Paul Martin
Translation: Ismail Rabah

The film’s editor, Ashraf Mashharawi, is the man of the same name who later emerged as a “free lance photographer” working for UK Channel 4 in the Gaza war of 2008.

“From the Camp” earned Ahmed Mashharawi second prize at NUFF 2007. The details of his life thereafter are summarized in a brief memorial tribute made to him by friends whom he met at NUFF. After NUFF 2007, he decided to move to Norway permanently, in order to pursue his dream of becoming a professional filmmaker. However, he was involved in a serious car accident on May 25, 2008, while driving from Oslo to Bergen, in order to pick up his wife and two young daughters at the airport on May 27. By May 27, he was comatose, and he died on June 10. He died without ever having seen his younger daughter, Ayah, who was four months old. The video actually doesn’t specify whether these events happened in May or June of 2007, or 2008. However, it must have been 2008, because (1) Ahmed was at NUFF 2007, which didn’t finish until June 10, 2007, and (2) a May 16, 2007 article in the Washington Times quoted him as an observer of the internal power struggles that were then going on between rival factions in Gaza. If he had died on June 10, 2007 rather than June 10, 2008, he presumably would have seen his younger daughter before dying. Incidentally, Gaza stringer who wrote the Washington Times article was Ismail Rabah, who was also the translator for the English subtitles in “From the Camp.”

[end of part 2]

263 DistantThunder  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:26:28am

There are none so blind as they who refused to see.

264 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:26:54am

re: #243 Last Mohican

It almost sound like the whole goal in this was to win a TIFF-y!

Moonbat self righteousness and loathing...

265 LGoPs  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:27:01am

I predicted yesterday that Martin wouldn't come on and face the fire.....cowards and propogandists never do......the truth is their enemy.

266 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:27:17am

re: #259 UberInfidel67

If you really want to be pissed off, I should reprint the letter to the editor that was in my local paper today. It goes on and on about how the US bends over for Israel because of religious beliefs. Also, did you know that the Jews are trying to rid the Middle East of all Arab presence? I am thinking up my response to this letter. I need information though. How big is Israel..what is her population compared to other muslim countries that surround her....things like that.

PLEASE write a reply and share it with us.

267 mean Gene  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:27:25am

Maybe Paul Martin will have it dawn on him that in Israel there are bomb shelters for everybody.
But in Gaza only Hamas can hide from the bombs.
Gee, under those circumstances, why so many civilian casualties, Paul?
Think, man, think!

268 DEZes  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:27:37am

re: #257 gracie1
Bravo!

269 yma o hyd  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:27:57am

re: #227 reine.de.tout

Harry was acting like any other young man in that age group would act.

I didn't find he was particularly disrespectful in the scene where he's on the phone with "Granny". It seemed to me he was just trying to be "one of the guys".

Exactly - and he's been like one of the boys, drinking culture included, for some time.
But anything to have a nice spat of Royals-hating!

270 Higgs Boson  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:28:39am

re: #131 yma o hyd

Yep - this actually does admit that the CPR scene was faked.

I thought that all of the Gazan E.R.'s were over-crowded and over-worked?!
If that IS the case, then WTF are these E.R. M.D.'s doing wasting their time and energy trying to re-animate a DEAD person?!


/...or, is it just me?

271 smokefire  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:28:46am

re: #260 goddessoftheclassroom

stranger things have happened. Hamas is not above killing one of their own to advance their purposes.

272 itellu3times  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:29:07am

The tragedy is that the kids were up on the roof, because the people of Gaza voted for Hamas, who insist on attacking an Israel fifty times stronger than they are, and their guardians did not protect the kids but put them in harm's way. The kids' tragedy is in their choice of parents and community. Exactly what happened thereafter, is of small consequence. Their deaths are real, and are on the heads of Hamas, and indeed, of Mashharawi.

If he is all broken up at his own guilt, well, there it is.

I admit this is not the most likely interpretation of the film, but it is the one most true. What do you say to that, Mr. Martin?

273 UberInfidel67  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:29:48am

re: #266 goddessoftheclassroom
Will do Goddess : )

274 DistantThunder  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:29:55am

Self-deception is the bases for all human problems: the ability and willingness to lie to yourself about reality. When confronted with the truth, people become defensive and angry. Anger is the telltale sign.

275 yma o hyd  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:30:33am

re: #233 DEZes

"I might also add that trying to suggest Ashraf has some political agenda is also a false trail."

Just how deep in Hamas pocket is this stooge?

Very deeply - probably his sole source of income ...
And as we know where Hamas gets its money from - its tainted.

276 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:30:33am

re: #274 DistantThunder

Self-deception is the bases for all human problems: the ability and willingness to lie to yourself about reality. When confronted with the truth, people become defensive and angry. Anger is the telltale sign.

You must know my EH!

277 Last Mohican  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:30:33am

The Norwegian Connection
Part Three: FTG’s Involvement in Pro-Palestinian Filmmaking After NUFF 2007

The minutes from the first post-NUFF FTG board meeting are missing from FTG’s site. However, the minutes from the next meeting, on September 26, 2007, mention the looming deadline for applying for project grants from Friendship North/South. Two potential projects are proposed, one of which is "Editor of footage from Gaza, so that they can be used, among other things, in schools in Tromsø."

The minutes from October 10, 2007, mention that FTG is planning to ask for a grant of 20,000 Euros to pay for travel for Nehal Afan, one of the Palestinian filmmakers, for “travel” which will include a visit to Tromsø in December.

The minutes from October 26, 2007, indicate the Knut Borud, one of FTG’s board members, had submitted project grant applications to Friendship North/South for five projects, totaling 190,000 krone. Among those was a $20,000 grant, to pay “Palestinian Film Workers” for “Films from Gaza.”

The minutes from March 11, 2008 announce that FTG had received 100,000 dollars from Friendship North/South. The board resolved to allocate 40,000 krone (about 5,600 dollars) to NUFF. The specific use of that money was not made clear in the minutes from this meeting. It’s possible that the idea was merely to contribute to NUFF’s revenues. It’s also possible that FTG intended to pay for Palestinian filmmakers’ travel to Tromsø, or just to pay for filmmakers’ expenses incurred while making films in Gaza.

The meeting minutes from March 25, 2008, revive the idea, first mentioned in the minutes of October 26, 2007, of using FTG money to pay for a movie to be made in Gaza. Again, as on October 26, the same exact figure of 20,000 dollars is mentioned. Again, no specific filmmakers is mentioned. Knut Borud, a board member, is to follow up on this. It appears that Borud serves in the role of “kirkeverge” at a church in Tromsø. However, someone by the name of Knut Borud is also mentioned, at least in one place on the web, as a filmmaker. It’s not clear whether this is the same Knut Borud, but if it is, this might explain why Knut Borud, rather than other FTG board members, was assigned to pursue the filmmaking project.

At the meeting of April 28, 2008, Knut Borud briefed the board on the progress of the film project: “Anniken Hoel and Hermann Greuel has agreed willing to be part of a producer group. We look for us to ask Nehal [Afan] to be with making the movie while she is in Tromsø (May-November).”

At the June 17, 2008 meeting, it is announced that, unfortunately, no participants from Gaza were able to attend NUFF 2008 (listed here as “NYFF”), because Gaza’s borders were closed. Therefore, because FTG couldn’t pay to fly participants from Gaza to Tromsø for NUFF, it incurred unexpectedly low NUFF-related expenses this year. There is mention, poorly translated by Google, of what FTG intends to do with the unused funds: “We work on to get support from omdisponert Friendship North-South that were not used.”

278 BBev  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:30:43am

re: #243 Last Mohican

good work

279 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:30:50am

re: #107 VegasRick

I think it was a one of the jooos new uterus bombs.
/

I am the Jewish uterus bomb!

280 DistantThunder  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:31:08am

re: #272 itellu3times

The tragedy is that the kids were up on the roof, because the people of Gaza voted for Hamas, who insist on attacking an Israel fifty times stronger than they are, and their guardians did not protect the kids but put them in harm's way. The kids' tragedy is in their choice of parents and community. Exactly what happened thereafter, is of small consequence. Their deaths are real, and are on the heads of Hamas, and indeed, of Mashharawi.

If he is all broken up at his own guilt, well, there it is.

I admit this is not the most likely interpretation of the film, but it is the one most true. What do you say to that, Mr. Martin?

Link above says Hamas is calling on children to form human shields - a war crime.

281 Opinionated  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:31:16am

Come on in, Mr Martin. Lets discuss the matter.

You're should not be afraid. We are less dangerous then Gaza.

Or maybe not.

In Gaza you only have to avoid precision Israeli bombing. Here you would need to avoid being bombarded with facts and the truth, and we know how dangerous that can be to a liar.

282 jcm  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:31:51am

re: #279 Alouette

I am the Jewish uterus bomb!

RUN!.........
/;-)

283 DEZes  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:31:59am

re: #275 yma o hyd

Very deeply - probably his sole source of income ...
And as we know where Hamas gets its money from - its tainted.


Iranian cash I think you mean, and tainted is a far kinder word than I would use. ;)

284 DistantThunder  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:32:12am

re: #274 DistantThunder

Self-deception is the bases basis for all human problems: the ability and willingness to lie to yourself about reality. When confronted with the truth, people become defensive and angry. Anger is the telltale sign.

285 subsailor68  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:32:35am

re: #279 Alouette

I am the Jewish uterus bomb!

Hmmm....is it ironic that an anagram of uterus is suture?

286 VegasRick  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:32:48am

re: #279 Alouette

I am the Jewish uterus bomb!

Really!

287 jcm  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:33:14am

re: #281 Opinionated

Come on in, Mr Martin. Lets discuss the matter.

You're should not be afraid. We are less dangerous then Gaza.

Or maybe not.

In Gaza you only have to avoid precision Israeli bombing. Here you would need to avoid being bombarded with facts and the truth, and we know how dangerous that can be to a liar.

Nothing to discuss, other than an apology.
/Martin

288 Last Mohican  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:33:30am

The minutes from the September 9, 2008 meeting, are particularly relevant to understanding FTG’s plans for funding Palestinian filmmaking in the near future. A financial report, presented by board member Inger Hilde Trandem, states that FTG has received from Friendship North/South 15,000 dollars in “information support,” and 100,000 kroner in “kulturstøtte.” Based on the minutes from earlier board meetings, it seems that the former is probably money that is meant to support FTG’s infrastructure (perhaps web site hosting, fees for posters and mailings, etc.) while the latter is meant to be transferred to specific projects. The minutes state that 60,000 dollars (or krone?) of the “kulturestøtte” money has been allocated: “10,000 to the picture show, 40,000 of NYFF, 20000 to the Gaza-film.”

The second of the four sections from the September 9, 2008 meeting announces that Palestinian filmmaker Nehal Afan has submitted an application for support for the making of his film “The Freedom.” The board reviewed the application, and decided to provide 35,000 dollars in grant money to Nehal Afan.

The minutes from the September 9, 2008 meeting also provide the first mention of the name of Ashraf Mashharawi, the Palestinian filmmaker whose documentation of the apparent death of his own brother appeared on CNN and UK Channel 4 in January, 2009. It appears that Mashharawi was, in 2008, engaged in a film project for which FTG intented to pay him. As this is listed separately from Nehal Afan’s grant, it now appears that Mashharawi may have been the intended recipient of the 20,000 dollar grant that had been described in prior meetings. However, it is now clear that Mashharawi didn’t finish the project by the end of 2008, and therefore FTG hadn’t paid him yet. Therefore, FTG intended to continue their contact with Mashharawi, and to pay him to make the film in 2009.

The exact excerpts from the September 9 minutes are:

(English)
Item 1: Economic overview
Since there was someone from Gaza to the NYFF, and we do not get finished film from Gaza in time to payout this year (see case 3 [i.e. Mashharawi’s film, see below), we have a lot of money to omdisponere.
(Norwegian)
Siden det ikke kom noen fra Gaza til NUFF, og vi ikke får ferdig film fra Gaza i tide til utbetaling i år (se sak 3), har vi mye penger å omdisponere.

Item 3: “At the end of the movie” (Regarding Ashraf Mashharawi’s film):
(English)
Filmprosjektet our, where Ashraf Mashharawi is asked to take up the film in Gaza, has Unfortunately, stopped, and we prefer not to have done some shooting in time to this financial support in 2008. We aim to apply for funds to implement project in 2009.
Resolution: Knut contacts Ashraf about the board's decision.
(Norwegian)
Filmprosjektet vårt, der Ashraf Mashharawi er spurt om å ta opp film i Gaza, har dessverre stoppet opp, og vi rekker ikke å få ferdig noen opptak i tide til å kunne støtte dette økonomisk i 2008. Vi tar sikte på å søke om å få midler til å gjennomføre prosjektet i 2009.
Vedtak: Knut kontakter Ashraf om styrets beslutning.

289 BBev  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:33:35am

re: #257 gracie1

I agree come here and plead your case where we can have a discussion.

290 smokefire  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:33:43am

Anger is the telltale sign., as well as raising your voice, and screaming uncontrollably.

291 DEZes  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:34:12am

re: #282 jcm

RUN!.........
/;-)


Shes gonna explode?

292 fmfnavydoc  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:34:44am

Paul Martin is nothing but a propaganda merchant for Hamas...the CPR scene in the ER was an act, pure and simple (as a health care professional for 26 years, with ICU/ER experience, I've done my fair share of CPR on adults,, children and infants)...fair and balanced my pasty white butt - CNN has been nothing but smear/tabloid journalism for quite some time. Remember their story about chemical weapons being used in Vietnam?

Mr. Martin - are you a graduate of the Fascist/Communist school of Journalism? Inquiring minds want to know!

293 VegasRick  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:34:44am

re: #287 jcm

Nothing to discuss, other than an apology.
/Martin

I'd apologize if he could prove us wrong.
(can't be done)

294 CapeCoddah  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:35:04am

Good Afternoon everyone!
To Mr. Paul Martin...Bullshit.

295 Last Mohican  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:35:27am

At the meeting of October 8, 2008, FTG’s board again confirms its intent to pay Ashraf Mashhrawi to make a film in Gaza in 2009. This time, the board also states that board member Christiane Kolberg plans to meet with Mashharawi personally, in Gaza, to discuss the film. Christiane Kolberg plans to travel to Gaza on October 26, to attend a “conference on psychological and social consequences of the obstruction of the Gaza,” on October 27 and 28.

Excerpts from the minutes of the meeting of October 8, 2008:

(English)
3. Rendered with Ashraf Mashharawi.
As referenced from the previous Board meeting, we aim to apply for funds to
implement filmprosjektet with Ashraf in 2009. In connection with that Christiane visiting Gaza, we are trying to get to a meeting where she can
talking with Ashraf about the opportunities we see for us.
(Norwegian)
3. Filmprosjekt med Ashraf Mashharawi.
Som referert fra forrige styremøte tar vi sikte på å søke om å få midler til å
gjennomføre filmprosjektet med Ashraf i 2009.
I forbindelse med at Christiane besøker Gaza forsøker vi å få til et møte der hun kan snakke med Ashraf om hvilke muligheter vi ser for oss.

The minutes from the next board meeting, on November 11, do not mention Ashraf Mashharawi’s film project. However, they do state that Christiane had not been able to travel to Gaza as planned, and therefore presumably was unable to meet personally with Ashraf Mashharawi. It is also mentioned that, unliked Christiane, Mads Gilbert was in Gaza from the end of October until an unspecified time in November. Therefore, it will be Gilbert who will report on recent events in Gaza, along with two FTG members, at the public meeting that FTG is planning for November 19 (see part one, above).

[End of part 3]

296 swamprat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:35:31am

re: #261 yma o hyd

We aren't looking at the roof much, either.
The debris there seems to cow poop, it looks greenish brown.
Flesh is stringy, except for brain and organs. One of those kid was blown to pieces! AND NO MISSILE PARTS! Look at the roof. Pieces of people (supposedly) all over. No missile debris!

297 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:35:44am

Ed Wood and that there 'Plan 9 from Outer Space' has better production values than Mr. Martins hackjob.

298 Higgs Boson  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:36:36am

"The tape, filmed by Ashraf’s cameraman, was fed to London and used by several outlets, without WNF itself actually having the facility to watch it beforehand."

W.T.F.? I call B.S.!

Every camera has the built-in capability to review the video which has been shot. Even my cell phone has that function.

/This guy sounds like Joe Biden.

299 AmeriDan  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:36:46am

re: #272 itellu3times

The kids' tragedy is in their choice of parents and community.

They did not choose this "lifestyle".

Their deaths are real

That has not been established in this video.

300 BBev  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:37:14am

re: #292 fmfnavydoc

Paul Martin is nothing but a propaganda merchant for Hamas...the CPR scene in the ER was an act, pure and simple (as a health care professional for 26 years, with ICU/ER experience, I've done my fair share of CPR on adults,, children and infants)...fair and balanced my pasty white butt - CNN has been nothing but smear/tabloid journalism for quite some time. Remember their story about chemical weapons being used in Vietnam?

Mr. Martin - are you a graduate of the Fascist/Communist school of Journalism? Inquiring minds want to know!

I know very little about CPR and I saw how fake it was.

301 Last Mohican  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:37:43am

The Norwegian Connection
Part Four: Conclusions

Mads Gilbert, the Norwegian doctor who appears as the supervisor of the obviously staged resuscitation efforts in a Gaza hospital depicted in the CNN and UK Channel 4 videos of January 2008, has practiced medicine in Tromsø, Norway, at least since 1995.

In light of Tromsø’s small size (fewer than 65,000 inhabitants) and geographic isolation, it is reasonable to suspect that the members of its pro-Palestinian activist community might know each other and communicate frequently. The government-funded group Vennskap Tromsø-Gaza (“Friendship Tromsø-Gaza,” or “FTG”) is a prominent entity in that community.

Mads Gilbert has had at least three contacts with FTG. In 2006, he called the mayor of Gaza to help arrange an internet project for which FTG was planning to seek government funding, and Gilbert reported on this communication while attending an FTG board meeting on October 30, 2006.

FTG’s involvement in Palestinian filmmaking began as early as 2004. In 2006, they brought Palestinian filmmakers to Tromsø for a film festival, including Rashid Mashharawi and Ahmed Mashharawi. They also brought Ahmed Mashharawi back to Tromsø in June 2007, when he presented a film that he made in collaboration with his brother Ashraf Mashharawi, the man who made the videos presented by CNN and UK Channel 4 in January 2009.

By October 26, 2007, FTG indicated its plans to, at some point in the future, spend $20,000 on the production of a new film in Gaza. It was established at the board meeting of September 9, 2008, that the producer of this film was to be Ahsraf Mashharawi.

Mahsharawi did not complete his film by the end of 2008, nor is it clear that he had even begun the film by that time. Therefore, FTG planned to pay him to produce his film in 2009. An FTG board member, Christiane Kolberg, planned to travel to Gaza on October 26, 2008, for purposes including meeting personally with Ahmed Mashharawi to discuss FTG’s collaboration with him on the making of a film. Kolberg was unable to travel to Gaza as planned. However, Mads Gilbert was in Gaza at that time. Therefore, Gilbert filled Kolberg’s anticipated role in reporting on recent developments in Gaza at a public meeting that FTG held in Tromsø on November 26, 2008.

There is no specific indication that Gilbert also performed the other task that Kolberg had intended to perform on FTG’s behalf in Gaza, namely meeting personally with Ashraf Mashharawi to discuss the film that he was to make with FTG’s funding. It is possible that he might have done so. In any case, in light of the ongoing relationship between the FTG and Ashraf Mashharawi that had existed for some time before January 2009, it is very likely that Gilbert and Mashharawi knew of each other before that time, and that Gilbert knew of Mashharawi’s intention to make a film in 2009 with the financial backing of FTG, a group with which Gilbert had had contact over several years.

[end of document]

302 DEZes  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:37:50am

re: #297 Oh no...Sand People!

Ed Wood and that there 'Plan 9 from Outer Space' has better production values than Mr. Martins hackjob.


A bigger budget to maybe.

303 Athos  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:40:37am

re: #281 Opinionated

Come on in, Mr Martin. Lets discuss the matter.

You're should not be afraid. We are less dangerous then Gaza.

Or maybe not.

In Gaza you only have to avoid precision Israeli bombing. Here you would need to avoid being bombarded with facts and the truth, and we know how dangerous that can be to a liar.

It appears that in addition to being morally and intellectually bankrupt, Martin is also a coward.

304 jcm  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:41:06am

re: #293 VegasRick

I'd apologize if he could prove us wrong.
(can't be done)

He said it was the truth. That's not good enough for you?
/

305 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:41:23am
306 Athos  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:41:28am

re: #287 jcm

Nothing to discuss, other than an apology.
/Martin

Sounds like a Hamas negotiation - there is nothing to discuss except your unconditional surrender to us.

307 gracie1  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:41:40am

re: #289 BBev

I lurked here for years before I was able to sign up. The least he could do is stick around and explain his self

308 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:43:45am

re: #301 Last Mohican

Hey, you pretty much started all this and Martin's pretty much calling you a liar.

/what do you have to say for yourself?

309 Athos  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:44:03am

re: #301 Last Mohican

Kudos on the excellent research and reporting.

One wonders what the msm would be like if they followed the same example as opposed to publishing only what fits and promotes their biases.

310 itellu3times  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:46:17am

re: #299 AmeriDan

That has not been established in this video.

True, but they seem likely, and I was on a roll.

311 babes  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:46:27am

re: #247 Last Mohican

Thank you for your extensive research. It is research like this that is very much needed.

312 yma o hyd  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:46:34am

re: #301 Last Mohican

Thank you very much indeed for all your work here, showing up the threads which seem to link Mr Mashharawi and Dr Mads Gilbert.

And thank you for doing this dispassionately, showing up that apologist fofr Hamas, Mr Martin, for the fake he is. He is just as fake a journalist as that video he sold to the MFM is a fake.

Thanks.

313 imogene  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:50:00am

re: #229 newsjunkie_ky

wasn't andysullivan's blog on there, where is it now?

different category

314 BBev  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:51:05am

re: #307 gracie1

I lurked here for years before I was able to sign up. The least he could do is stick around and explain his self

I agree, we could have a discussion and keep it clean but I don't think he has the BALLS to do it, Fucking pussy, Maybe I should invite a good friend of mine from Lebanon into the discussion also ( his whole family was murdered by Hezbollah) I'm sure he would have a few things to say to this ass wipe!

315 Blackacre  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:52:29am

I've said it earlier today, I'll say it again, and amplify it just a bit:

Paul Martin's response is larded with self-serving statements of objectivity and feigned umbrage over the criticisms directed at this propaganda, but precious little in terms of facts that address the many red flags in the scenes that have been aired.

The most that Martin offers is a lame excuse -- which never actually comes to grips with (i) the lack of physical vigor of the CPR, (ii) the lack of contemporaneous ventilation, (iii) the disconnected leads on the medical equipment, (iv) the absence of larger quantities of blood on the sheets, or (v) the presence of clothes remaining on a body in an ER that was supposedly inflicted by various shrapnel wounds -- that is nothing more than his supposition that the CPR was gentle because the White Lab Coat GuysTM had already concluded that their "efforts" were futile.

What is shown is just the very final stage of doctors’ failed efforts to save Mahmoud. I suppose the reason their effort as shown is so gentle is that they have already in effect concluded that it is futile.

Notwithstanding his rhetoric, Martin has failed to come forward with any facts demonstrating that this video production is anything other than stage-managed Pallywood propaganda. His indignation, righteous or otherwise, does not suffice.

316 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:53:24am

re: #301 Last Mohican

Great report!

317 LGoPs  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:54:59am

re: #292 fmfnavydoc

Paul Martin is nothing but a propaganda merchant for Hamas...the CPR scene in the ER was an act, pure and simple (as a health care professional for 26 years, with ICU/ER experience, I've done my fair share of CPR on adults,, children and infants)...fair and balanced my pasty white butt - CNN has been nothing but smear/tabloid journalism for quite some time. Remember their story about chemical weapons being used in Vietnam?

Mr. Martin - are you a graduate of the Fascist/Communist school of Journalism? Inquiring minds want to know!

I nominate Mr. Martin for the Joseph Goebbels Chair at the Columbia School of Journalism.......

318 Promethea  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 11:58:13am

re: #149 Wilderstad

Lots of appeals for sympathy, fairness, apologies, respect and faith in the honesty of his 'reporter'.
It's all baloney, and a attempt to deflect justified criticism.

Mr. Martin, I'll put it to you plain. With all the staged photoshoots, photoshopping of images, misleading captioning and other visual fun and games we've been noticing, you're just not credible.
YOU NEED TO EARN OUR TRUST. You haven't done that. In fact what you've done with your statement is to make the initial story reek even more of manipulative tactics, an agenda and propaganda.

If you can't provide us with the real deal with no embroidery, we're not interested in listening to your protests.

Well stated.

319 fmfnavydoc  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 12:00:00pm

re: #317 LGoPs

I nominate Mr. Martin for the Joseph Goebbels Chair at the Columbia School of Journalism.......

SECOND THE MOTION!

320 Treesarie  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 12:00:13pm

As a hospice nurse I was struck that the boy is so "pink" in the cemetary,
no one who is dead is pink. Also the facial muscles all become flaccid and he does not seem to have that "hanging jaw" and the muscles do not seem to have dropped, however there are not a lot of good pics of his face. Aside from the obviously staged CPR, no doctor would ever play for a camera like Mads, unless, he was mad. Death by extreme bradycardia, sounds like moronic language, and why would they be speaking English.
Also, the roof does not seem to have any burn marks, just wet with the pool of "blood." These people have no shame.

Good job, Mohican and Charles.

321 DisturbedEma  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 12:00:13pm

re: #22 MandyManners

Why didn't he run spell-checker or proof-read this before he sent it? I think it's indicative of his whole operation.

He had faith in his grammar. . .

322 Lynn B.  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 12:05:20pm

This is linked to by a commenter over at Augean Stables in the thread Paul Martin dropped into, from his own (the commenter's) blog:

ENGLISH VERSION:

Children die!

and Hamas hides its activities in civilian houses and schools, where children are numerous. The Israeli Army has found a map, which shows us just that. But the Icelandic media doesn‘t tell us about such findings. Icelanders obviously do not need to know such things. Most of them believe Hamas rather than the Israelis. Just like many Icelanders were fascinated by Hitler and hated Jews before WWII. Little has changed.

Have at look at the CNN coverage of the death of the 14 year old brother of a Gaza cameraman on 7 January 2009, in which a professor of anaesthesiology at the University of Tromsø in North Norway, Mads Gilbert, declares the boy dead. Look at he boy´s wounds, and please note that the CNN reporter, Michael Holmes, says that the boy and his cousin were killed by an Israeli drone during the truce, which that day was between 1 and 4 PM. The boy was hit by the drone, brought to the hospital, died there, brought to a last farewell in his home and buried in the afternoon, all in the same day, i.e. between 1 and 4 PM on 7 January. Sunset on Gaza this day was around 16.30 PM. Was all that possible in three hours?

Then, please listen to an interview with Mads Gilbert on the Icelandic news program Kastljós (Spotlight) on the evening of 7 January 2009, and listen to him describe (in Norwegian) the wounds of two 14 year old boys, who arrived to his hospital during the truce the same day. Do you see head wounds on the boy in the CNN feature?

- - - -

Viðbót 11. janúar/Addition 11 January : This is what Mads Gilbert told an Icelndic reporter about the 14 year old boys on 7 January 2009:

Reporter: “How was it like during the truce?”

Gilbert: “Yes, there was a three hour truce today and there was sunshine and we all hurried out. It was wonderful to be free to hear the bombs but we heard some bombs though. But there were much fewer bombs. We received two patients then, “aargh” or more, they [the Israeli] didn’t actually respect the truce. One of the boys, a 14 years old, lost both eyes and had his entire face crushed. We do not know whether he will survive. He has been operated. The other boy got bomb shrapnel through the scull and the brain and is operated and is in a respirator, they are both in a respirator.”

Se also the Augean Stables Blog /Comment #25

323 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 12:14:17pm
324 Sunlight  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 12:17:14pm

If this guys is filming in Israel right now, I would request that Israel take his video and stop working with him. Israel needs to know that this guy is not trustworthy and that his productions constitute incitement, which is causing Jews problems all over the world. Be our friend. Don't let this guy do your filming and distribution. Let the IDF Spokesperson bloggers do it.

325 SummerSong  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 12:19:45pm

Mahmoud is dead because Hamas cannot control itself.

I pray Mahmoud finds peace, at last.

326 Salem  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 12:20:46pm

After brightening the picture I can see where there might be a small injury, and with the brain the fragment can can be very small indeed and do terrible damage. I will say that it appears that the body would have had to be scrubbed and then allowed to dry before this picture. And what would be the point in doing that at a point when there is supposedly a frantic effort to resuscitate him underway?

My impression is that either the subject was already dead and prepped for burial when the footage is taken, or he's not dead. But there is far to little evidence provided for me to confidently assert it was a staged. I can only go with a hunch, abetted by this idiot Martin's veritable admission that it was.

327 Oh no...Sand People!  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 12:21:46pm

Just release ALL of your footage. Everything. That would either:

A. Shut us up.
or
B. Show you are amongst the most vile, heinous, disgusting, fecal matter infested sub human beings to walk the earth.

My money is on B.

328 swamprat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 12:23:45pm

re: #325 SummerSong

Don't forget ACHMED. The other brother no one talks about!

329 debutaunt  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 12:27:41pm

re: #260 goddessoftheclassroom

I have no trouble believing that the child died as a result of Hamas, but I don't think he was intentionally killed.

I doubt that he was intentionally protected either.

330 Red Pencil  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 12:45:27pm

CNN: The Most Busted Name in News.

331 Rancher  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 12:48:12pm
The idea that this somehow resulted in this same doctor and Ashraf acting out some faked scene over his dying or dead youngest brother is ludicrous and sickening.

Well it is certainly is sickening.

332 hazzyday  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 12:50:50pm

Paul Martin used his time to try and corroborate his story and his Gazian friends were not helpful to him. However Paul Martin due to his naive nature still wished to take the words of liars at truth. He must suffer from trooerism.

Anything Hamas related in the media is suspect as propaganda designed to manipluate western perception.

Anything the Hamas does with kids is a death cult related activity. Just the week before we see children being lined up in photo after photo as a tool of the death cult. In these cases the sympathies of naive westerners are being used to kill these kids. Hamas perceives value in using kids as terror weapons because western audiences lap it up.

333 Dar ul Harb  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 12:51:52pm

So, how does CNN respond to Mr. Martin's account that he sent the pre-packaged video on out the door to Western media outlets without any editorial review? Is this an acceptable level of professionalism for CNN, to just slap that footage on the air?

Apparently.

Curious isn't it that Mr. Martin's friend in the war zone has the facility to view and edit the video, while Mr. Martin, who runs the video distributor is outside of Gaza, and doesn't?

The parsimonous explanation is that Mr. Martin needed to come up with some explanation as to why the raw source video is unavailable "until after the war."

Yet the obvious counter to that is, how's he getting his video out now, and why can't he use the same means to provide the footage that will make us all look like heartless bastards, as Mr. Martin seems to argue we are?

334 swamprat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 12:55:38pm

re: #322 Lynn B.

Viðbót 11. janúar/Addition 11 January : This is what Mads Gilbert told an Icelndic reporter about the 14 year old boys on 7 January 2009:

Reporter: “How was it like during the truce?”

Gilbert: “Yes, there was a three hour truce today and there was sunshine and we all hurried out. It was wonderful to be free to hear the bombs but we heard some bombs though. But there were much fewer bombs. We received two patients then, “aargh” or more, they [the Israeli] didn’t actually respect the truce. One of the boys, a 14 years old, lost both eyes and had his entire face crushed. We do not know whether he will survive. He has been operated. The other boy got bomb shrapnel through the scull and the brain and is operated and is in a respirator, they are both in a respirator.”
Se also the Augean Stables Blog /Comment #25

Doctor didn't get the story straight. He may have to leave town.
Both boys died. But they buried one quickly because they had a 3 hour truce window.

335 LeePro  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 12:57:53pm

Here is my ongoing hmmmmmmmm.............

I am not a doctor or medical professional, but it just seems to me that (IF) the patient is already suffering from multiple open, gaping, bleeding, shrapnel wounds... why would you do vigorous, heart-pumping CPR — without supplying ventilation — on a patient who is bleeding to death anyway? ...especially before closing the profusely bleeding wounds!?!?!?

336 akak  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 12:58:47pm

There is so much in this video that seems fake, but when I see the dude crying and looking at the camera - it is then I know it is total fake.

337 arier_tzvi  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 1:01:01pm

wasnt the Hamas / palestinian Bee and mouse also named Mahmood?

338 Dar ul Harb  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 1:01:39pm

Mr. Martin doesn't have to provide much video, either. Just a couple minutes of the heroic medical intervention of Dr. Mads Gilbert and company that were supposedly filmed prior to the footage that was actually shown.

You know, the part where the patient is actually being respirated, has real chest compressions performed, and generally is provided with the standard of care that would be medically appropriate to his alleged presentation?

Judging from the remarkable condition of the bedding and the ER team's relatively pristine clothing and gloves, that earlier footage can't have been too grisly to be shown.

339 LeePro  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 1:03:24pm

re: #332 hazzyday

EXACTLY!

...which is also why all the "protest" signs in all those non-English-speaking countries are printed in... ENGLISH!

340 LeePro  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 1:07:22pm

re: #333 Dar ul Harb

Excellent points!

OT: Hey, Dar! We'll be having another Memphis Lizards meet-up soon. Is there a good time for you?

Email. My nic is blue.

341 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 1:13:44pm
What is shown is just the very final stage of doctors’ failed efforts to save Mahmoud.

The video shows Doc taping what appears to be 2 ekg leads onto the body. Why would leads be attached in the final stage of treatment - wouldn't the time to attach the leads be at the outset?

342 Dar ul Harb  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 1:19:16pm

re: #340 LeePro

I don't check that email unless I have a reason to, so my apologies for not responding to your earlier messages.

343 columbus  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 1:24:26pm

This might be a silly question - And already asked before;

Why is any young childl playing on the roof of a house when rockets are flying overhead?

344 Abu Bin Squid  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 1:30:45pm

Mahmoud died because a rocket hit him while he was playing on the roof of his apartment.

This poor boy died because of a suicidal belief system which he was yet unable to comprehend, thus his ignorance/innocence was Hamas' fortune.

My blood boils at those who practice Islam at the expense of this boy and countless others.

/plus they hate women - I like women

345 Abu Bin Squid  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 1:33:11pm

re: #343 columbus

I just had to self-delete my response.

346 Dar ul Harb  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 1:36:22pm

re: #343 columbus

This might be a silly question - And already asked before;

Why is any young childl playing on the roof of a house when rockets are flying overhead?

Hamas, humanitarians that they are, have not built underground shelters for the Gaza residents, though they have provided bunkers for the Hamas leadership, and have built an extensive network of arms-smuggling tunnels. Apparently the attitude is, Allah will protect the people from the Juice, inshallah, and if not, we know the Juice don't deliberately target civilians, so building shelters for the leaders is sufficient. Besides, whoever gets killed will be a glorious shaheed anyway, and a P.R. problem for the Zionist entity, so it's all good.

Run along and play on the roof, Mahmoud. Never mind the flak.

347 swamprat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 1:52:14pm

re: #343 columbus

This might be a silly question - And already asked before;

Why is any young childl playing on the roof of a house when rockets are flying overhead?

Israel had a three hour truce that day. This has not been mentioned in any of the tapes. The deaths, attempted treatment(note; accounts vary as to whether one child, or both children were taken to the hospital) and burial(s) took place within the three hour truce period.That is why Mahmoud was buried in a dirty sheet with fully flexible motion in all of his limbs. Please note that in channel 4's tape, they clearly state that Ma(c)hmoud (and Achmed!) had died THAT DAY! This means that the the scenes from the rooftop were filmed before sundown!
So. Rush two dead or dying 14 year olds one 14, and one 12 year old children to the hospital, get incompetent treatment for him or them depending on whether you believe the tapes or this account:

Reporter: “How was it like during the truce?”

Gilbert: “Yes, there was a three hour truce today and there was sunshine and we all hurried out. It was wonderful to be free to hear the bombs but we heard some bombs though. But there were much fewer bombs. We received two patients then, “aargh” or more, they [the Israeli] didn’t actually respect the truce. One of the boys, a 14 years old, lost both eyes and had his entire face crushed. We do not know whether he will survive. He has been operated. The other boy got bomb shrapnel through the scull and the brain and is operated and is in a respirator, they are both in a respirator.”
Se also the Augean Stables Blog /Comment #25


(hattip to LeePro, The Augean Stables, and Dr Gilbert)

Unless there were a parade of 14 year old boys who got blown up by missiles that leave no physical trace of themselves and splatter cow manure on tin privacy fences.

348 Dar ul Harb  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 2:00:24pm

re: #347 swamprat

So, Mads Gilbert says the Gaza hospital has at least two respirators.

Yet no ventilation was apparently done on the patient in the video? Why not? Even if, as Mr. Martin tells us, the doctors had "given up" by that point, the respirator will not "give up" until you turn it off.

349 swamprat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 2:03:20pm

re: #347 swamprat

Continued. Once to the hospital, rush at least one child to the gravesite, bury him, then back home to film to scene of the attack. Then get the film to your boss.
A very full day because the pictures got to London in time for channel 4 to say "today".

This stinks like a three day old fish.

350 swamprat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 2:05:01pm

re: #348 Dar ul Harb
Couldn't have been on for long. Sunset reportedly at 4:30 pm

351 Dar ul Harb  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 2:10:04pm

re: #350 swamprat

Couldn't have been on for long. Sunset reportedly at 4:30 pm

I wonder, is it possible to determine the approximate time of day the outdoor scenes were shot, based upon shadow length?

I don't recall how the shadows looked in the rooftop scenes.

352 Dar ul Harb  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 2:15:41pm

Shadows rather long on the rooftop, looks like late afternoon, an hour or two before sundown.

353 swamprat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 2:16:14pm

re: #351 Dar ul Harb
Shadows were very long.

354 Dar ul Harb  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 2:19:37pm

Sun angles look higher in the cemetery scene (I'm looking at the Channel 4 version).

355 swamprat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 2:22:51pm

And nobody wants to talk about Achmed, the guy who got blown up trying to launch a Kassam I mean, the other child in the tragedy.

356 Render  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 2:24:37pm

Perhaps the cameraman stopped being independent when HAMAS sent him a message by killing two of his family members?

Either way, Paul Martin is still a liar.

===

Apologize?

For not rushing to the ovens quickly enough?

For exposing the lies of CNN, HAMAS's propaganda arm?

For cheering as the IDF destroys the people who have been screaming for the extermination of my family and my religion?

Apologize for being Jewish?

Go to hell Paul Martin.

STAY
THERE,
R

357 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 2:34:53pm

Here's why Paul Martin is a liar.

There is no indication that IDF drones are armed. IDF drones are small and able to be carried by one man. Yesterday someone posted a video of an embed reporter in the IDF. During the filming you can see an IDF soldier carrying a drone past the camera. I promise you that they are not capable of carrying rockets.

One of the reasons that video from IDF drones has to refocus constantly is that they are so light and small that they get "bounced" up and down which ruins the focus. Small wings on a light airframe.

Here's a picture of one used by front line forces. Here's the Hermes 450, a more robust drone..yet not capable of carrying rockets. Nor is the Heron series.

That leaves the Harpy. The MSM calls it a drone. It is not. It is a operational loitering attack weapon, that means that it is tasked to a specific area to watcg for and then attack, a specific target....almost always a rader system. It _is_ the weapon system. Had a Harpy hit the roof that building not only would more damage have been done, but identifiable remains would have been paraded by Hamas.

So until someone shows me a picture of an armed IDF drone I call bull shit!

358 captain joe  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 2:38:50pm

There is little difference between what Mads was doing and the what green helmet guy was doing or Reuters stringers were doing with photoshop. It is all propaganda designed to sway western minds against the Jews.

359 morning star  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 2:51:09pm

re: #76 yma o hyd

Who did the voice-overs for both CNN and Channel4?
Someone yesterday suggested it was Mr Martin himself - anybody know?

Good question.

360 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 2:52:54pm

re: #61 Ojoe

To practice CPR & get a red cross CPR card, we used a dummy & we locked our hands together, palms down, & put them in the center of the dummy's chest, and then positioned ourselves over the dummy, and pressed down with our whole upper body weight onto the dummy, which gave downward about two inches. It was tiring to keep this up. One compression every second or two.

I got my card.

Seaking of CPR: a recent University of Illinois study found that, at 103 beats per minute, the Bee Gees' "Stayin' Alive" has almost the perfect rhythm to time chest compressions by per the AHA and ARC standards.

Kinda ironic, ain't it?

361 formercorpsman  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 3:01:02pm

CNN is paying for this service.

I'm beginning to think there might be some Iranian help in this as well.

Forget this buffoon, CNN is who needs to be squarely in the cross-hairs.

362 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 3:02:50pm

RE: On the subject of "What kind of people let their children play on roof tops in a war zone"?

I had the great fortune of being born in America. California, 1971, to be more specific. Growing up here as a child, (for my entire life, actually) there was never, not even once, the threat of missiles, mortars, or any other deadly military ordinance falling on our heads.

Considering the fact that I was privileged to grow up in an area of such great peace and security (big THANK YOU to all U.S. Service members, past and present), I was still forbidden from playing on a roof top. Any roof top. Ever.

Sure, I still did. But you can bet that there would be some serious discipline coming my way if I were ever caught. And I was, on many occasions, and sometimes by adults that weren't even relatives of mine.

What kind of people, indeed.

363 MittDoesNotCompute  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 3:08:01pm

re: #219 reine.de.tout

Israeli children have bomb shelters to go to in the event of a missile strike, and warning systems in place to let them know when to get to a bomb shelter.

The government of Israel has built a system to protect its citizens.

Why does Gaza not have such protections? They apparently have been able to build underground bunkers for their leadership. So they have the know-how. Don't you think it would occur to any rational person to provide the same thing for citizens in danger?

Because we know that the Palestinian leadership, whether Fatah or Hamas, doesn't really give a rat's ass about their citizens, other than the big money from the UN (and from us, unfortunately) that comes their way because of their perpetual "refugee" status. If they did and built shelters for their citizens, then they'd have less dead Palestinians to parade in front of the cameras in order to paint Israel as the aggressor in the court of international public opinion.

364 swamprat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 3:09:23pm

I am shocked to discover that Mads Gilbert is a honored doctor. His beliefs aside, he must have known his acts on camera would be scrutinized. I now wonder if he was coerced. He may not be safe. I sure wish I cared, but he plays with sharks.

365 rumcrook  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 3:09:52pm

everything that needs to be said has been said about this fake

the only thing I can add is,

I call bullshit!

366 KSK  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 3:10:44pm

I'll be very polite as asked:

"No-one in their right mind would suggest that any person would allow doctors to play games with a dying or dead younger brother."

Definitely correct. But we are talking Hamas here and they have done JUST THAT time and again.

What is shown is just the very final stage of doctors’ failed efforts to save Mahmoud. I suppose the reason their effort as shown is so gentle is that they have already in effect concluded that it is futile.

I have worked for a first responder ambulance rescue unit time ago. And with all respect I call BS.

I've performed CPR on an almost daily basis. And no, the "very final stage" does not look like this. Never. Ever. Period.

When you decide to end it because it's futile, you stop, you gently remove the oxygen mask and that's that. You don't do more stupid light tappings on the thorax without oxygen mask. You are exhausted. You let go.

I challenge Mr. Martin to find me one doctor (outside Gaza and probably the Arab World) to say otherwise.

One single doctor

367 swamprat  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 3:28:29pm

Hello mother,
hello father.
I'm a refu-gee in Gaza
There are missiles
and propaganda
we might even get to blow up the zoo's panda

wait a minute
there's a buzzing
guys are yelling
then they're sailing!
If I'm shortest
I'll get a sportvest
I sure hope it is not plaid cause I'm not Scottish!

368 morning star  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 3:30:47pm

re: #211 Last Mohican

I have spent some time pursuing the links provided by morning star, with respect to the “Norwegian Connection” to the events depicted in the CNN and UK Channel 4 videos. I’ll summarize them in a four-part document that I’ll post here, as I have time to do so. As you’ll see here, there are some interesting conclusions to be drawn, mainly that Mads Gilbert and Ashraf Mashhrawi were probably not strangers when they apparently met in a Gaza hospital during the tragic events of the apparent death of Mashharwi’s young brother. My main intention in posting this is to provide some names and links, in case others would like to investigate further. There’s nothing definite to be learned about the events in the hospital, other than what we already know: the resuscitation scene in the hospital was definitely fake.

Thanks, Last Mohican!

369 Colin Nelson  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 3:33:00pm

In his BBC piece, Mr. Martin writes: "it was too dangerous outside Ashraf's family home in the deserted side streets. So the children played innocently on the family home's flat roof."

What level of idiocy does he think we subscribe to?

Kids playing on the streets might quite easily not be seen by a drone - i.e. lots of vertical surfaces so a drone camera angle other than straight above a street might miss the kids.

But, kids playing on an open flat roof... a no brainer.

For the record, my heart goes out to all Pali kids who are being sacrificed to hatred.

370 Render  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 3:49:34pm

re: #357 Quilly Mammoth

Good comment but...

Hermes 450 can carry a single Hellfire at the expense of carrying a sensor package. Testing on that was supposedly completed in 2005. Supposedly the newer Viper Strike missile was also tested with the Hermes 450 in late 2007. The missile itself receives its targeting information from other sources.

Heron TP and Heron 900 can carry as many as four Hellfire, Viper Strike, or LAHAT anti-tank missiles. This was shown at the 2007 Paris air show.

[Link: defense-update-events.blogspot.com...]

However...

None of those three missiles, designed to destroy main battle tanks, would have done so little damage to that rooftop. The blast alone would have removed everything not bolted down. Those chairs would be blackened puddles of melted plastic. The laundry would be vaporized and all of the cinder blocks in the blast range would have been cracked, broken, and scorched. The two children would have been shredded beyond recognition. Those anti-tank rounds would have punched a hole through the roof and then exploded, or sprayed molten shrapnel in the room below, or both.

That's what they are designed to do.

There is nothing precision guided in the IAF's aerial armory that would have done so little damage.

===

/-alert...

I have zero doubt that this story is being played in the Arabic press as proof of Israel's deadly "child-seeking" missiles. Clearly developed by the same Jewish company that made the Muslim only womb exploding weapon and the Muslim only penis shrinking chemical weapons. All of which are so secret that only the Arabic press knows about them...

TRIPLE
REVERSE,
R

371 tobariv  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 5:04:34pm

I'm an M.D. and I've run codes and this looked like a complete sham. The M.D. pointed to the monitor- what was that about? One would have been bagging this child to get oxygen to his brain and body. Where was the defibrillator ?Most docs do not calmly give up on a child, so the argument that this was the end of the code is also false. Even if it were the end the compressions would have been performed properly,

372 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 5:11:29pm

re: #370 Render

I'm unaware that the Heron TP or the Heron 900 has actually been through a directed fire program, such as the Predator. That is, a UAV "sees" a target and engages it via remote command.

But yes, all those weapons deliver a huge amount of energy to the target...however, it is said that there is a version of the Hellfire with a much reduced explosive payload resulting in a much smaller damage radius. Pretty tricky stuff because you have keep the warhead weight the same.

373 Heathen  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 5:27:17pm

re: 371

I am also a physician. What we see in this video is a man in a white coat simulating chest compressions. He is exagerrating his shoulder movements to give the impression he is performing chest compressions but in the frames that show his hands we can see he is only lightly touching the patient, at times only with his fingertips.

Also, no one is ventilating the patient. Chest compressions without bagging the patient (with a mask or ET tube) do no good whatsoever.

Also, CPR is simply a technique to keep oxygenated blood flowing to the brain while you attempt to restart the patient's heart. Usually, it's done with drugs or a defibrillator. In a trauma case, it may require other procedures, e.g., a needle decompression of a tension pneumothorax or pericariocentesis to relieve a cardiac tamponade.

Nowhere in this video did I see anyone attempt to actually resuscitate the patient.

To be 100% clear, this is not a poorly performed resuscitation or the winding down of a code. This is a simulation of chest compression only.

374 Efoster  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 5:38:33pm

re: #46 rightymouse


I was going to suggest that very thing.

375 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 5:56:22pm
376 RaiderDan  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 5:59:17pm

As a former EMT and firefighter who has performed CPR on dozens of adults (thankfully no children) this is completely fake.

In previous threads we've been over before the numerous flaws in the video about incorrect bended elbow compressions, incorrect hand placement, incorrect depth, lack of IV access, lack of ventilations, bagging, lack of endotrachial tubes, and the biggest, in my view, the performance of CPR in a hospital bed, not on a backboard, along with the general lack of intensity and staffing at this alleged "code"

Unfortunately, we've unwittingly given the Hamas propagandists a checklist when they want to fake their next "code."

I challenge any doctor, nurse, EMT, paramedic, trauma surgeon, to say this is real and not staged.

But the one I REALLY want to challenge is Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN's Chief Medical Correspondent and Surgeon General Nominee. Hopefully some Republican Senator during his confirmation hearings will ask him (I'm thinking Senator Tom Coburn, the only doctor in the Senate currently) whether he thinks this scene is real.

If he says "yes"
during testimony, its correct performance for a "code" and CPR his credibility as a neurosurgeon and doctor is shot and he knows it. If he does the right thing and says "no" CNN's news credibility has been given a fatal dagger to the heart.

I'm betting his reputation as a doctor and a surgeon is more important to him than defending CNN. If he wants to be Surgeon General, CNN needs to retract this NOW.

(CNN is of course standing by this, not because they believe its true, but if they retract it now, their reporters and producers in Gaza will probably face retribution. Thats what happens when you make a deal with the Devil known as Hamas)

As Terrell Owens said. "Get your popcorn ready."

377 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 5:59:41pm
378 Colin Nelson  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 6:08:09pm

re: #377 ploome hineni

Good one! Guess you are right - what an ethical nightmare these poor pawns have to live.

Just a thought about the reporting of 'civilian' and 'child' casualties: last I recall, (possibly 3/4 years ago), the demographics for Gaza shows that 50% of the population is under 15 years of age!

Makes it kind of tough to avoid casualties in that group.

379 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 6:20:26pm
380 tsionguy  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 7:38:58pm

Paul Martin said he was filming videos in Israeli hospitals, to show all sides of the conflict. If I was working in the same Israeli hospital, I wouldn't take my eyes off of Martin for a second. I would also assign a medical student to film the same scenes in parallel with Martin, in order to analyze the editing of Martin's final product.

381 tsionguy  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 7:52:55pm

re: #376 RaiderDan

"CNN is of course standing by this, not because they believe its true, but if they retract it now, their reporters and producers in Gaza will probably face retribution."

I have to politely disagree. Remember that CNN's reporters and producers are not allowed into Gaza, thanks to the IDF's good sense. The Gazans providing the videos are probably members of Hamas anyway, so they are not at risk. I also think you give CNN too much credit by implying they are unwilling participants in this fraud. CNN's track record of anti-Israel biased journalism has been so consistent, that one can't help but imagine how they were more than willing to spread this video around the world. By scrutinizing this, and other suspicious videos, we can avert future "Al-Dura" hoaxes, and eliminate the pretext for more needless riots.

382 Effy  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 7:53:02pm

This video, produced by an Arab, gets sort of graphic, but does clearly show Hamas' atrocities against their own people.

383 Ledger1  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 8:09:23pm

Paul Martin is just trying feed us taqiyya. Worse, he is bolstering hairabi barbarians to use more children in future propaganda films.

Why doesn’t Mr. Martin bring his own children in Gaza and let his kids play with explosives? The medical treatment is wonderful!

Mr. Martin, you are disgusting, lying sleazeball!

384 GT Charlie  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 8:18:51pm
...groups like Hamas are not above using their own children to manipulate the feelings of Western audiences...

Hamas is not above using their own children in much the same way that the ocean is not above the sky (to paraphrase Douglas Adams).

Is this guy really a medical doctor? I'd like to say that's hard to believe, but I work with medical students every day. A bigger bunch of egotistic jerks would be hard to find.

Charlie

385 tsionguy  Sun, Jan 11, 2009 9:50:27pm

Here's an interesting update. In the Augean Stables blog:
[Link: www.theaugeanstables.com...]
one of the commenters (#25. Comment by Dr. Vilhjalmur Örn Vilhjálmsson — January 11, 2009 @ 11:19 am) translated a CNN telephone interview with Dr. Mads Gilbert on 1/7/09. In the interview, Dr. Gilbert claims that both boys suffered severe head trauma, and both were on respirators. Clearly the boy in the video did not match either of these descriptions.

386 mcdonald2012  Mon, Jan 12, 2009 7:02:48am

As it did others above, the following quote struck me.

No-one in their right mind would suggest that any person would allow doctors to play games with a dying or dead younger brother. The idea is bizarre and deeply insulting…

This is true. No one in their right mind would do such a despicable thing. Unfortunately, we aren’t always dealing with people in their right minds. In the Palestinian territories, we are quite often dealing with people that are out of their minds. This is a culture that holds suicide bombing as a moral achievement; where proudly sacrificing your children and celebrating their deaths gets you elected to office. Faking a CPR attempt is hardly beyond them.

And Charles, you asked for expert doctor opinions regarding the CPR in the video, but it doesn’t take an expert to see that the scene could have been staged. Anyone that has taken a CPR class could tell you that. As a day care/camp counselor for several years, I had to take CPR classes and renew my credentials every year or two. During instruction, I remember them telling us that what they show in TV shows is not how it’s done. We were taught to keep our arms straight and locked at the elbows, to lean over the patient, and to use our body weight to push in the chest a few inches. Clearly, that isn’t happening in the video.

387 ceemack  Mon, Jan 12, 2009 1:11:52pm

So if I've got this right, we're supposed to believe that the video is genuine because darn it, Paul Martin really, really believes it is. There are no actual facts in this rant that would prove its authenticity.

Meanwhile, looking at the video again, I'm struck by one thing more than any other: where's the blood?

The boy was supposedly killed by multiple shrapnel wounds resulting from a nearby hit from an Israeli "rocket".

But no wounds on the front of the boy's torso are visible in the video. When they roll him over and wrap him up in the sheet, there is only one small spot of blood visible on the table.

It's possible that the wounds were in the boy's legs, out of view, but the doctors weren't working on the boy's legs at all. They were still wrapped up in a blanket or comforter.

And I don't see a bag or bottle of blood hanging anywhere around the bed. If the boy was badly wounded, wouldn't he be getting a transfusion?


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