Another Ride on the Ceasefire Merry-Go-Round

Middle East • Views: 2,270

Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal, safely hiding from Israel in Syria, is talking tough with absolutely nothing to back it up.

DOHA, Qatar – Hamas’ political chief rejected Israeli conditions for a Gaza cease-fire Friday and demanded an immediate opening of the besieged territory’s borders, taking a tough line as he asked a summit of Arab countries to back him by cutting off any ties with Israel.

Despite the hard-line comments by the Syrian-based Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal, Israel and Egyptian mediators were expressing optimism a cease-fire could be reached. Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev said he was hopeful that Israel is “entering the endgame” on its Gaza offensive and that a “sustained and durable” stop to Hamas rocket fire on southern Israel was near.

Hamas is threatening Israel with waves of suicide bombers, and at the same time demanding that Israel open the borders and let the murderers in. It’s a surreal kind of insanity, and the “international community” doesn’t even blink at it.

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228 comments
1 Sharmuta  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:34:58am

I hope the IDF calls his bluff.

2 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:35:15am

Poor, poor palis. All tressed up, and no place to go.

3 Gretchen G.Tiger  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:35:32am

have a great day all!

4 Age Of Freedom  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:35:44am

Well said, Charles.

5 DeafDog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:35:46am

Nuts

6 jaunte  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:36:20am

Cave life's got Khaled Mashaal looking a bit pale.

7 paybacktime  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:36:24am

The only way Israel should agree to any ceasefire is for hamas to first surrender unconditionally to Israel.

8 tfc3rid  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:37:45am

This 'international community' is what our incoming Commander in Chief wants us to be more a part of... Wonderful...

9 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:38:20am

I'm sure a cease-fire can be arranged.
Once all the Hamassholes are dead.
(Note to people who try to make LGF look bad - I said "Hamassholes", NOT Palestinians or even inhabitants of Gaza. I mean the hard-core members of Ham-ass who cannot accept the existence of Israel.)

10 notutopia  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:39:29am

Go get Khaled Mashaal out of Syria and bring him back to his beloved Hamas Gaza in a body bag!

11 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:39:30am
"Did we do wrong, by rejecting a truce that let the blockade continue?" Mashaal said. "Don't the people of Gaza deserve to live free? ... They want to live free without blockade or occupation, just like all the Palestinian people do."

What about the Israelis' right to live free of constant bombing?

12 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:39:46am

re: #7 paybacktime

The only way Israel should agree to any ceasefire is for hamas to first surrender unconditionally to Israel.

I think too many nutjobs ended up with free "Hamas" t-shirts. Surrender won't work either (IMHO).

13 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:40:35am
Israeli government spokesman Mark Regev said he was hopeful that Israel is “entering the endgame” on its Gaza offensive and that a “sustained and durable” stop to Hamas rocket fire on southern Israel was near.

This could mean anything - but I hope it means Israel will keep on keeping on with they've been doing.

14 BlueCanuck  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:40:41am

Well I think that Israel will get a cease fire. I mean, how much more munitions does Hamas have?

/cease fire = hudna = reload.

15 Ojoe  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:40:45am

Peace follows victory. Victory requires defeat.

16 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:41:16am

re: #10 notutopia

Hey Not! Wife just got second kidney stone pulverized. I'm in the waiting room.

17 bombarafat  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:41:22am

t's amazing the Baghdad Bob syndrome is all over the Islamofascist world. Here is this moron who is not in any position to be making demands, doing just that, making demands.

No deal without Gilead Shalit.

18 reine.de.tout  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:41:52am

re: #17 bombarafat

. . .

No deal without Gilead Shalit.

amen.

19 lifeofthemind  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:41:55am

Israel should destroy the Syrian airforce on the ground 1967 style and drop JDAMS on the top 10 of Hamas hiding in Syria.

20 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:42:20am

The IDF, and to a lesser extent the political leadership, preformed much better than in Lebanon 06. The had a plan and inflicted significant damage to Hamas. HOWEVER, if they agree to any cease fire,truce, or call it what you want with out iron clad verifiable conditions in place to totally prevent Hamas from rearming and/or firing any missiles into Israel, then I think they are making a huge mistake.

21 PayBackTime  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:42:40am

On a more realistic note, ANY ceasefire between Israel and hamas must be predicated on hamas giving the ICRC (International Red Cross) access to captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit to verify that Gilad is being treated humanely.

[Link: www.icrc.org...]

"10-12-2008 Interview
Gaza: still no ICRC access to Gilad Shalit
It has been almost 900 days since the Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit, was captured by Palestinian armed factions from Gaza. To date, the ICRC's attempts to visit him and to establish contact between him and his family have been unsuccessful."

22 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:43:08am

Clinical Definition of Insanity
DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER YET EXPECTING A DIFFERENT RESULT!
I pray for Israel on a daily basis, but if they don't take this opportunity to wipe out the leadership and "army" of an enemy that wishes nothing short of their destruction I will be dismayed

23 Racer X  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:43:20am

"Open up your borders with us so we can keeel you, or we will keeel you!"

Got it.

24 guftafs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:43:28am

Any kind of diplomatic solution will only lead to the next round in Israel's struggle for survival. Unfortunately, Israeli politicians have a difficult a time as US politicians to envision what victory would mean in operational terms, and how to reach it.

25 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:43:34am

An IDF presence and close monitoring of rocket lauch sites by armed predators would be a great way to insure the cease fire works.

26 funky chicken  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:43:46am

same as it ever was.....

well, same as it's been since George HW Bush and pals brought back Yasser Arafat from Tunisia. I didn't pay a whole lot of attention before that point. So perhaps that didn't really change much, but it's been Groundhog Day since that point, IMHO.

27 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:43:53am

Why would the international community blink at this; they've condoned such behavior for years. They demand Israel act in ways that none of the so-called betters ever would. None would ever tolerate thousands of kassam attacks without responding with the kind of force that would level Gaza. That goes double for the likes of Syria - who not only plays host to Hamas and Hizbullah, but is calling for the world to boycott and cut ties to Israel.

That's particularly rich.

And Syria is yet another country that the diplomats want Israel to make peace with? What exactly is Syria doing to show that it can be trusted? They're hosting Hamas leaders so that they can make the inane statements that their thugs in Gaza will make the streets run red with the blood of Israelis. From the comfort of apartments in Damascus.

Hamas thugs also say that Israel has lost it. That's the first sign that Israel has started towards regaining its deterrence capabilities. Making Hamas think that Israel is a little unhinged means that the terrorists can't be convinced that Israel will tolerate even a single rocket fired without a significant response. That's why Israel has to increase the pressure on Hamas now with additional attacks against the leadership.

Also keep in mind that Meshaal is trying to list conditions for a ceasefire, all while he and the media and diplomats ignore that it was Hamas that never abided by the ceasefire in the first place; Hamas continued attacking Israel all through the ceasefire, and they accelerated the pace and level of attacks the moment it was over.

Hamas cannot be trusted. Period.

28 Dainn  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:43:54am

The rest of the world has opinions about the Isreali/Hamas issue for their own reasons which have nothing or very little to do with the real conflict. Hamas (all terrorists) know and use this fact as a tool against Isreal. Isreal just does what we would do if a hostile terrorist nation was bombing out cities.

Hamas has received the mother of all passes from the one-world community and the MSM: a nation state that fires hundreds of missiles into a neighbor during a "truce" is seen as the real victim. Gotta give them credit for a propaganda win there.

29 pat  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:44:14am

The only point of negotiations would be to appease the UN.

30 the_flying_pig  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:44:34am

Hamas = Epic FAIL.

31 Shr_Nfr  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:44:57am

Lol cutting off Arab ties with Israel. I am sure that would devastate them.

32 FQ Kafir  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:45:00am

Will the US give overfly rights to Israel to strike Iran?

Seriously, Israel and the US are signing a "Memorandum Of Understanding," which is typically used in international law regarding aviation.

Here's the AP article.

[Link: www.google.com...]

Here's a site on "Memorandum of Understanding."

[Link: www.nationmaster.com...]

The important sentence:

"Although MOUs in the multilateral field are seldomly seen, the transnational aviation agreements are actually MOUs."

33 Age Of Freedom  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:45:02am

Tayyip Erdogan, the Islamists PM in Turkey said:

'How can a country that does not implement Security Council resolutions be allowed to enter through the gates of the UN headquarters'

Turkish PM says Israel should be barred from UN

Even IF he was right, and Israel was committing war crimes (when in fact it's the hamas that shoots as civilians, at civilians while hiding cowardly behind civilians - especially women and children), Turkey is among the lines of Germany - as in really friggin' far up at the top 5 or 3 on the list - as far as having pure absolute zero moral right to criticize others of "war crimes".

Maximum Fuck you, Turkey, you fomented liars.

34 notutopia  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:45:12am

re: #16 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey Not! Wife just got second kidney stone pulverized. I'm in the waiting room.

Go lithotripsy! Give her a big hug from me, (not around her waist). I pray for her full recovery and to be comfortable and painfree.
Did they give her a discount on being a loyal return customer?

35 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:45:17am
36 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:45:38am

Before any cease fire, the IDF needs to clear out the cockroaches from the basement of the Shifa hospital.

37 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:45:51am

re: #21 PayBackTime

My honest beleif is that Galid Shalit is with God. I cannot see fanatics holding him 'safe" for 900 days.
(I pray that I am wrong)

38 funky chicken  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:45:56am

re: #22 sattv4u2

Clinical Definition of Insanity
DOING THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER YET EXPECTING A DIFFERENT RESULT!
I pray for Israel on a daily basis, but if they don't take this opportunity to wipe out the leadership and "army" of an enemy that wishes nothing short of their destruction I will be dismayed

Prepare to be dismayed. They would have to kill tens of thousands, and the Israeli political class in power won't allow it, and they are out of time. I figure Obama's "crack (smoking) foreign policy team" will put the hurt on Israel within a week of inauguration.

39 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:45:57am

I think I have figured out how the Israelis will keep Hamas in line after a cease fire.

They have worked out a plan with Pelosi and Reid in which the state of Israel will become an FDIC insured bank at which point they will have $865 Billion in dollar bills delivered to them. They will then seal the borders with Hamas by piling the money in a giant wall running the length of the border. No Hamas missile will be able to get enough altitude to get over the wall. Plus, the Israelis can threaten to push over the wall and flood all of Gaza in cash 9 feet deep.

That is the plan.

40 FQ Kafir  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:46:03am

re: #32 FQ Kafir

If the US lets Israel fly over Iraq, Iran may soon get a spanking.

41 DaddyG  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:46:11am

re: #29 pat

The only point of negotiations would be to appease the UN.

I thought the only thing that appeased the UN were child prostitutes and 5 star hotel stays in disaster areas?

42 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:46:13am

re: #11 Ford_Prefect

What about the Israelis' right to live free of constant bombing?

The media, the left, and the Palestinians couldn't care. All the human rights groups and violations are all perpetrated by Israel. Thousands of war crimes by Hamas (each and every rocket attack is a war crime) are ignored. The UN pushes resolution after anti-Israel resolution and ignores the terrorism and those who support the terror war against Israel.

Iran gets put in charge of the UN Development Program and no one bats an eye. Terror regimes and totalitarian dictatorships sit on the UN HRC, and no one notices. Yet, we're supposed to listen to these organizations?

43 Ojoe  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:46:25am

re: #35 Iron Fist

It has taken over 1,000 years to learn that.

If we even have.

44 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:46:32am

re: #36 Mich-again

Before any cease fire, the IDF needs to clear out the cockroaches from the basement of the Shifa hospital.

As soon as that shit hole was publicized, I am sure they flew the coup.

45 DeafDog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:47:01am

Khaled Mashaal is trying to buy 4 days, and 'hoping' that the the new POTUS will 'change' Israel's resolve.

46 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:47:05am

re: #26 funky chicken

same as it ever was.....

well, same as it's been since George HW Bush and pals brought back Yasser Arafat from Tunisia. I didn't pay a whole lot of attention before that point. So perhaps that didn't really change much, but it's been Groundhog Day since that point, IMHO.

I thought it was Dhimmi Carter that brought Arafat back. Or at least set the stage for him to come back, like a turd that just won't go down the drain.

47 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:47:18am

re: #35 Iron Fist

Total war until unconditional surrender. That should have been our position vis the Mohammedans from day one.

That's how it works in the real world.

This "little fighting till UN Ceasefire... see you guys next time when we do it again" nonsense in the post WW2 world is an annomoly.

48 funky chicken  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:47:24am

re: #32 FQ Kafir

Please. Bush refused them before, and got caught. Now they're trying to make nice....the Obama admin can just void anything done now.

It's all a farce.

49 Shr_Nfr  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:47:31am

re: #25 DaddyG

Personally, they need a corridor between Egypt and Gaza to control the arms smuggling. I could care less about them getting goats and condoms through, but the weapons are something else. A nice corridor with seismic sensors to listen to the gophers might keep the re-arming down. You dig, we collapse the tunnel on you.

50 Racer X  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:47:46am

Lets flip this.

Say Israel had claims on Syrian territory, and for years had been lobbing small rockets into Syria hoping for CIVILIAN casualties (and in fact causing injuries and deaths of civilians).

How much "restraint" do you think Syria would use?

51 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:47:49am

re: #37 sattv4u2

My honest beleif is that Galid Shalit is with God. I cannot see fanatics holding him 'safe" for 900 days.
(I pray that I am wrong)

Sad, but most likely true.

52 Muadib  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:47:50am

This cartoon sums it up.

Lets get a bigger hammer.

53 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:47:52am

re: #45 DeafDog

Khaled Mashaal is trying to buy 4 days, and 'hoping' that the the new POTUS will 'change' Israel's resolve.

If I were Hamas, I wouldn't sign any truce until after the 20th!

54 Dainn  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:48:23am

re: #32 FQ Kafir

Not a chance. If Bush didn't do it, Obama won't, and very soon it will be an Iraqi decision on US. Israel's ability to attack Iran is going to be based on their floating airpower, which I believe is negligable.

The only way Israel will attack Iran is to invade the airspace more than a few neighbors. They may still do this, but it is the only way. Maybe after the USA gets out of Iraq and Iraqis are flying defense in thier own countries then Israel will be able to muscle through.

55 SFGoth  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:48:50am

Arab advertising slogans:
Bullshit, it's not just what's for dinner
Bullshit, it's not just for breakfast anymore
Bullshit, it's not just a job, it's a way of life

You know, it really is unfortunate SNL didn't have Saddam's spokesfool as a guest host. It could've been their best episode ever.

56 MJ  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:48:50am
"It’s a surreal kind of insanity, and the “international community” doesn’t even blink at it."

The "international community" is all in favor of murdered Jews. It's the only role which Jews can play in their collective imagination...that of victim.

57 Sharmuta  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:49:04am

re: #42 lawhawk

The media, the left, and the Palestinians couldn't care. All the human rights groups and violations are all perpetrated by Israel. Thousands of war crimes by Hamas (each and every rocket attack is a war crime) are ignored. The UN pushes resolution after anti-Israel resolution and ignores the terrorism and those who support the terror war against Israel.

Iran gets put in charge of the UN Development Program and no one bats an eye. Terror regimes and totalitarian dictatorships sit on the UN HRC, and no one notices. Yet, we're supposed to listen to these organizations?

Because Evil is the victim of Good- and we should have sympathy for victims.

This is how the left thinks.

58 funky chicken  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:49:10am

re: #46 Kosh's Shadow

Nope. It was George HW and James Baker after Gulf War I, at least from what I recall. Perhaps I'm a decade and a half off on my timing, but....

59 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:49:16am

re: #45 DeafDog

Khaled Mashaal is trying to buy 4 days, and 'hoping' that the the new POTUS will 'change' Israel's resolve.

Like everyone else who wanted policy changes from "the Bush years" he will be disappointed. Obama will only do the PR differently from Bush because his ego fears failure. He has never done anything bold other than create the appearance of bold.

60 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:49:39am

re: #38 funky chicken

I figure Obama's "crack (smoking) foreign policy team" will put the hurt on Israel within a week of inauguration.

I'm praying that with 300 of them (Obamas foreing policy "advisers") the polls that they use to decide what to do are mixed, resulting in a food fight in the discussion room. By the time the last banana cream pie is tossed, Israel has completed its mission

61 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:50:07am

Hi Charles! "It’s a surreal kind of insanity, and the “international community” doesn’t even blink at it."
Do ya think it's cause their so used to it now?

62 faraway  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:50:08am

Cease Fire terms:
1. Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal must turn himself in
2. Hang Mashaal publicly

63 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:50:14am

re: #38 funky chicken

Prepare to be dismayed. They would have to kill tens of thousands, and the Israeli political class in power won't allow it, and they are out of time. I figure Obama's "crack (smoking) foreign policy team" will put the hurt on Israel within a week of inauguration.

You mean this team?

According to the report, Obama is planning a “diplomatic offensive, which could include the appointment of special envoys,” and which “contrasts sharply” with President Bush's approach to the region. “Bush put less emphasis on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict early in his tenure and tended to deal with Middle East problems separately,” the report explained.
64 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:50:20am

In just a few days, Israel and "Palestine" will not exist to the MSM, American public, and most of the European public.

All eyes will be on the HISTORICAL events in Washington.

No one will give a sh*t about what is going on in the midEast.

Americans already have a short attention span and my radar suggests that the media spasm has begun to subside.

It would be a HUGE mistake for Israel to stop now.

They should do what they're always accused of doing anyway and TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE INAUGURATION DISTRACTION AND ESCALATE UNTIL THERE IS NO LONGER A HAMAS TO NEGOTIATE WITH.

America is at the mall, and for the next two weeks at least, it will be ALL OBAMA ALL THE TIME.

IMPOSE PEACE.

65 alegrias  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:50:21am

OT, re the usual propagandists for murderers:

BBC's main page sarcastically calls yesterday's life saving US Aiways pilot "Hero" with scare quote apostrophes--
but they describe mass murderer of North Koreans Kim Jong Il as Dear Leader, with a straight face.

66 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:50:28am

Well, it's pretty easy for this Mashaal (pronounced "Michelle," I'll bet) to talk tough. I wonder what he'd be saying, were he in Gaza right now.

67 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:50:30am

re: #60 sattv4u2

I figure Obama's "crack (smoking) foreign policy team" will put the hurt on Israel within a week of inauguration.

I'm praying that with 300 of them (Obamas foreing policy "advisers") the polls that they use to decide what to do are mixed, resulting in a food fight in the discussion room. By the time the last banana cream pie is tossed, Israel has completed its mission

Nice analysis.

68 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:51:15am

re: #57 Sharmuta
Yep. Good morning Sharm. You are absolutely correct.

69 funky chicken  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:51:24am

re: #54 Dainn

Not a chance. If Bush didn't do it, Obama won't, and very soon it will be an Iraqi decision on US. Israel's ability to attack Iran is going to be based on their floating airpower, which I believe is negligable.

The only way Israel will attack Iran is to invade the airspace more than a few neighbors. They may still do this, but it is the only way. Maybe after the USA gets out of Iraq and Iraqis are flying defense in thier own countries then Israel will be able to muscle through.

Iraqis own their own airspace as of Jan 1 of this year. My husband flies in it now, and that's NOT a good thing.

Bush really has not been such a great commander in chief. Of course Gore and Kerry would have been worse. And I am pretty sure Obama will be worse.

McCain would have been better. sigh

70 Kragar  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:52:09am

There will be no real ceasefire as long as Hamas exists.

71 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:52:33am

re: #65 alegrias
Hi alegrias! Well, it is the Beeb for cryin' out loud!
They wouldn't know a genuine hero from John F. Kerry.

72 Ojoe  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:52:37am

re: #65 alegrias

BBC HQ is in hell IMHO.

73 jcm  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:52:47am

re: #10 notutopia

Go get Khaled Mashaal out of Syria and bring him back to his beloved Hamas Gaza in a body bag!

Locate his Hamass and special delivery a JDAM.

74 itellu3times  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:52:47am

re: #64 Ben Hur

In just a few days, Israel and "Palestine" will not exist to the MSM, American public, and most of the European public.

All eyes will be on the HISTORICAL events in Washington.

No one will give a sh*t about what is going on in the midEast.

Americans already have a short attention span and my radar suggests that the media spasm has begun to subside.

It would be a HUGE mistake for Israel to stop now.

Yeah, but Hamas knows this, too. That's why they're just waiting for the Obamanation, too, their offers are not reallly serious.

75 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:52:51am

re: #66 Guanxi88

Well, it's pretty easy for this Mashaal (pronounced "Michelle," I'll bet) to talk tough. I wonder what he'd be saying, were he in Gaza right now.

I think he'd be saying "Is there any more clean underwear?"

76 alegrias  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:53:00am

re: #21 PayBackTime

On a more realistic note, ANY ceasefire between Israel and hamas must be predicated on hamas giving the ICRC (International Red Cross) access to captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit to verify that Gilad is being treated humanely.

[Link: www.icrc.org...]

"10-12-2008 Interview
Gaza: still no ICRC access to Gilad Shalit
It has been almost 900 days since the Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit, was captured by Palestinian armed factions from Gaza. To date, the ICRC's attempts to visit him and to establish contact between him and his family have been unsuccessful."

* * * *
No no no, IDF should be given soldier Gilad Shalit in person.

The ICRC is no "fair" humanitarian party to this conflict. ICRC is partisan pro jihadis.

77 opnion  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:53:46am

If the Hamas leadership is left standing it will look like they won, withstanding the Zionist Entity. Nothing but uconditional surrender with a weapons give up will do.
Oh, & I would make them take down the Obama yard signs, the election is over.

78 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:54:03am

re: #67 jwb7605

Nice analysis.

Thanks. I'm just figuring thats how many of Obamas decisions will be made. Much like Clinton, he'll wait to see which way the political wind is blowing and do the "popular" thing. The "popular" thing often turns out to be the emotional thing, not the wise thing.

79 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:54:04am

Photo time:

Is that how you carry an injured Palestinian boy whose arm is bandaged?

Dead ambulances. Israel blamed for attacking poor defenseless ambulances, but let's not forget that Hamas has used 'em for carrying their terrorists around town in the past to attack Israel.

Celebrating a mass murderer in Gaza.

Gee, we're supposed to listen to the OIS when they invite the Sudanese leader who's overseen the Darfur genocide to the table?

80 Mich-again  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:54:41am

re: #49 Shr_Nfr

Personally, they need a corridor between Egypt and Gaza to control the arms smuggling. I could care less about them getting goats and condoms through, but the weapons are something else. A nice corridor with seismic sensors to listen to the gophers might keep the re-arming down. You dig, we collapse the tunnel on you.

the border between Gaza and Egypt needs a ratwall.

81 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:55:02am

re: #63 Kosh's Shadow
"“Bush put less emphasis on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict early in his tenure and tended to deal with Middle East problems separately,” the report explained."
Oh, yeah, that's it. Iran, Syria,Egypt, Lebanon and formerly Iraq are not part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
It's gonna be a LOOOONG four years.

82 Dainn  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:55:13am

re: #60 sattv4u2

By the time the last banana cream pie is tossed, Israel has completed its mission

I'm sure this is why the attack happened during the time between the US election and the inauguraton. Obama will likely do nothing about Israel except try to broker an agreement and foment peace, which won't work as Hamas is a terrorist state with clear goals for the distruction of Israel. Hamas will keep trying to incite a world war against Israel, Israel will periodically bomb their leadership into mush, rinse and repeat.

The only hail mary pass for peace in that region is if the Palistinians rise up and demand a change in the government they elected in. Let this be a lesson to all who would elect a terrorist government.

83 alegrias  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:55:25am

re: #40 FQ Kafir

If the US lets Israel fly over Iraq, Iran may soon get a spanking.

* * *
2 Democracies of the Middle East, UNITE!

84 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:55:45am

re: #72 Ojoe

BBC HQ is in hell IMHO.

Or vice versa.

85 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:55:51am
86 funky chicken  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:56:12am

re: #64 Ben Hur

do you really think they will? dunno why I'm so pessimistic, it's just that the news articles seem identical to me to the stuff I've read for 15 years.

87 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:56:21am

re: #70 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

There will be no real ceasefire as long as Hamas exists.

But a bankrupt Iran will equal a bankrupt Hamas. Once this is over, Hamas will have nothing to rebuild with and will rely on donations from abroad. Not sure much of the Arab world, while posturing otherwise for the cameras, is actually eager for Hamas to continue making trouble. Iran, of course, wants to stir the pot and exert influence over the region. But with no oil money, that ain't likely to happen. Bankrupt Iran and the world becomes a marginally better place.

88 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:56:22am

re: #79 lawhawk

[Link: www.daylife.com...]
Bandaged? Looks like when my kid tries to put on his T-Shirt in the dark and stuck his head thru the arm hole and arm through the head hole!

89 tokyobk  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:56:23am
Mashaal lay down Hamas' view of the conflict, trying to fend off suggestions from Egypt and Saudi Arabia that its rocket attacks were to blame for sparking the Israeli assault, in which more than 1,100 Palestinians have been killed, according to Gaza medical officials. Israel says it launched its Gaza offensive because of continued Hamas rocket fire against southern cities.

Almost a flying lamb shwarma moment.

They know where this is going, and they know Iran has always been one step removed from the Arab sphere, with as deep an attachment to Islam but not the deference to the Saudis.

BTW, do the Jews get law of return for Mecca and Medina, by the logic waged against Israel.

90 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:56:34am

I hope Israel continues to tell the world to go piss up a rope.

91 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:57:02am

re: #21 PayBackTime

On a more realistic note, ANY ceasefire between Israel and hamas must be predicated on hamas giving the ICRC (International Red Cross) access to captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit to verify that Gilad is being treated humanely.

[Link: www.icrc.org...]

"10-12-2008 Interview
Gaza: still no ICRC access to Gilad Shalit
It has been almost 900 days since the Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit, was captured by Palestinian armed factions from Gaza. To date, the ICRC's attempts to visit him and to establish contact between him and his family have been unsuccessful."

I really hate to say this, but I believe Shalit has been deceased from day 1. There is no way these savages could restrain themselves from murdering him.

92 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:57:17am

re: #83 alegrias

* * *
2 Democracies of the Middle East, UNITE!

What about Turkey?

93 DeafDog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:57:27am

re: #53 Nevergiveup

If I were Hamas, I wouldn't sign any truce until after the 20th!

Maybe. It depends on who you are in Hamas.

All reports are that Israel is kicking the stuffing out of Hamas right now.

If I were a Hamas foot soldier, I'd want a ceasefire as soon as possible - even if it meant surrender. The foot soldiers, seeing carnage around them, must be questioning the leadership at this point. I would speculate that resolve there is greatly weakened.

The leadership, on the other hand, perhaps still has more resolve - particularly the ones vacationing in Syria. They want a traditional ceasefire (re-arming period) ASAP. If they could get it now, then great. If they can't get it now, they figure that Clinton - Arafat's Stooge - will strike the deal. So they need to keep the troops encouraged that the end is in sight.

If Obama/Clinton continue the Bush policy, their base will deflate - since it will be an immediate admission that Bush's aggresiveness has merit. Obama and Clinton have a big decision looming.

94 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:57:28am

re: #77 opnion

If the Hamas leadership is left standing it will look like they won, withstanding the Zionist Entity. Nothing but uconditional surrender with a weapons give up will do.
Oh, & I would make them take down the Obama yard signs, the election is over.

Nice!

95 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:57:47am

re: #90 MandyManners

I hope Israel continues to tell the world to go piss up a rope.

...as it tightens that rope around the neck of Hamas.

96 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:58:19am

re: #81 realwest

"“Bush put less emphasis on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict early in his tenure and tended to deal with Middle East problems separately,” the report explained."
Oh, yeah, that's it. Iran, Syria,Egypt, Lebanon and formerly Iraq are not part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
It's gonna be a LOOOONG four years.

Makes it look like my story where 0bama brings back Lovecraft's Elder Gods might be a good scenario. At least, it would be over quickly.

97 Texas Heathen  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:58:19am

Geesh. I just get caught up on one thread and everybody jumps to another thread.
I've jumped more threads this week than a Dragon of Pern.

98 Opinionated  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:58:29am

Cease fire or no cease fire, Israel is in for a world of hurt beginning next week.

But before history begins again with Obama- before the Israeli American relationship is shattered- it should be acknowledged that Bush/Rice prepared the table for what Obama will do.

You can not be a supporter of Israel and a loyal American and not have your heart broken by what will be and what already has occurred.

Read Caroline Glick and weep., And be afraid.

Bush's parting lesson

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

99 faraway  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:58:35am

re: #70 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

There will be no real ceasefire as long as Hamas exists.

You left out fatah, hezbollah, Chechen "rebels", cair, wahhabis, muslim brotherhood...

100 Dainn  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:58:53am

re: #69 funky chicken

Iraqis own their own airspace as of Jan 1 of this year. My husband flies in it now, and that's NOT a good thing.


Israel won't bully their way through Iraq to attack Iran until we are out. The last thing they want is a confrontation with their only world ally, and we are still there in force. I assume we still constitute a large part of their air defense, especially with our Awaks and other air control capibilities.

My guess is that the USA has given a very clear message to Israel: don't fly over Iraq without prior Iraqi permission. And they'll get that the day the temple is rebuilt in Jerusalam.

101 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:59:01am

re: #92 MandyManners

What about Turkey?

It's not Thanksgiving. Can we have Rooster instead?

102 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:59:20am

re: #79 lawhawk

Notice this in nearly every photo explanation:

Israel said its Gaza offensive could be "in the final act" on Friday and sent envoys to discuss truce terms after Hamas made a ceasefire offer to end three weeks of fighting that has killed more than 1,100 Palestinians.

No bias there.///

103 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:59:27am

They showed a Interview with the Capt. of that US AIR wife on TV. I think it was his wife and if it was, He either waited a while to marry or it's his second wife. She looks alot younger than he is. Just saying.

104 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 8:59:59am
105 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:00:08am

re: #79 lawhawk

Photo time:

Celebrating a mass murderer in Gaza.

You would think, that if the Israelis are really the genocidal monsters that the moonbats claim they are, they would have carpet bombed this target of opportunity.

106 Fat Jolly Penguin  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:00:17am

re: #72 Ojoe

BBC HQ is in hell IMHO.

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."

~Gen. William T. Sherman

107 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:00:17am

re: #90 MandyManners

I hope Israel continues to tell the world to go piss up a rope.

It can and will, but the USA is another story and the cast of characters changes in 4 days.

108 DeafDog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:00:28am

re: #59 karmic_inquisitor

As I mentione in #93, if Obama/Clinton continue the Bush policy, their base will deflate - since it will be an immediate admission that Bush's aggresiveness has merit. Obama has big domestic policy plans, and maintaining that political base is important. He may not do what you expect.

Obama/Clinton have a big decision looming.

109 midwestgak  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:00:28am

re: #93 DeafDog

If Obama/Clinton continue the Bush policy, their base will deflate - since it will be an immediate admission that Bush's aggresiveness has merit. Obama and Clinton have a big decision looming.

Hey Deaf - took me a minute to realize you were referring to H. Clinton. Automatically though of Bill and thought, why would Bill be involved? lol

110 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:00:38am

re: #102 Ford_Prefect

Notice this in nearly every photo explanation:

No bias there.///

Sure was nice of Hamas to extend the olive branch, wasn't it?

/

111 notutopia  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:00:43am

re: #79 lawhawk

Photo time:

Is that how you carry an injured Palestinian boy whose arm is bandaged?

Not the greatest of carries.
But if the arm is dislocated or fractured at the head of the humerus, it's actually better than just letting his arm dangle.
[Link: www.fotosearch.com...]

112 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:01:09am

re: #95 goddessoftheclassroom

...as it tightens that rope around the neck of Hamas.

Nasty but, appropriate.

113 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:01:24am

re: #74 itellu3times

Of course the offers from the hamasthugs sitting safe in Damascus are not serious.
Of course they think it'll be to their advantage once the Inauguration is over.

There are hwoever two aspects which they (and a lot of the MFM!) are overlooking:
* meanwhile, the IDF is creating facts on the ground, and I would not be surprised if some more Gazan hamassholes will join the others to gaze at the 72 virgins (no touching, see!) for all eternity - perhaps even over the weekend.

* last night we briefly pondered if the Israeli politicians may not already have some back channels to the B0 administration - with the lovely shining proze for B0 to 'make peace in the ME if he goes along with the aims of the IDF. Not for public consumption, naturally, but I think this is not beyond the realms of possibilities.

Finally - any israeli politician right now agreeing to a cease fire as its on the table at the present will not get re-elected. thats a certainty - and they know it!

114 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:01:39am

re: #101 sattv4u2

It's not Thanksgiving. Can we have Rooster instead?

Turkey: It's not just for Thanksgiving any more.

115 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:01:42am

re: #97 Texas Heathen

Geesh. I just get caught up on one thread and everybody jumps to another thread.
I've jumped more threads this week than a Dragon of Pern.

QUICK EVERYBODY! NEW THREAD!
//

116 alegrias  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:02:18am

re: #71 realwest

Hi alegrias! Well, it is the Beeb for cryin' out loud!
They wouldn't know a genuine hero from John F. Kerry.

* * *
Hello Realwest Sir,

Yes, they're for ZEROS, not heroes! (It's not our parent's pro-allied victory BBC for sure)

And may I say, IDF are heroes, not zeros.

117 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:02:20am

re: #108 DeafDog

As I mentione in #93, if Obama/Clinton continue the Bush policy, their base will deflate - since it will be an immediate admission that Bush's aggresiveness has merit. Obama has big domestic policy plans, and maintaining that political base is important. He may not do what you expect.

Obama/Clinton have a big decision looming.

Obama can afford to have his base "deflate" right at the start of his term. I find that "origressives" generally have short memories. Obama will do things in years 3/4 that will thrill the base all over again!

118 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:02:26am

re: #95 goddessoftheclassroom

...as it tightens that rope around the neck of Hamas.

But not too tight, you know. Don't soap or oil the rope, but the knot dead-center in nape of neck, and make the drop about 6 inches.

Do it right.

119 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:02:51am

Screw Mashaal. Keep it up, IDF!

120 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:03:00am

re: #87 karmic_inquisitor
Isn't it a tad strange that the only Persian nation in the ME is the Main supporter of Hamas/Hezbollah? The Arab states have - on rare occasion - made pro forma protests about Israel, but you could tell they didn't really blame Israel. But the Persian state of Iran did.
Ya know, my biggest - or one of my biggest disappoitments with Bush was the same one I had with his father and, sad to say, Ronnie: Iran declared war on the US in 1979 and none of us have taken them up on that.

121 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:03:04am
122 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:03:09am

re: #109 midwestgak

If Obama/Clinton continue the Bush policy, their base will deflate - since it will be an immediate admission that Bush's aggresiveness has merit. Obama and Clinton have a big decision looming.

Hey Deaf - took me a minute to realize you were referring to H. Clinton. Automatically though of Bill and thought, why would Bill be involved? lol

Hillary will be in charge of foreign policy, and Bill will handle the foreign affairs.

123 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:03:21am

re: #110 karmic_inquisitor

Sure was nice of Hamas to extend the olive branch, wasn't it?

/

Yes, and how many of the 'Palestinians' were actually members of Hamas, family of Hamas or being used as human shields by Hamas? I would say roughly 1,100.

124 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:03:24am

re: #117 sattv4u2

Obama can afford to have his base "deflate" right at the start of his term. I find that "origressives" generally have short memories. Obama will do things in years 3/4 that will thrill the base all over again!

PROGRISSIVES

damn thumbs

125 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:03:52am

Proportionality and hypocrisy

"There is always a cost to defeat an evil. It never comes free, unfortunately. But the cost of failure to defeat a great evil is far higher."

Jamie Shea, NATO spokesman, BBC News, May 31, 1999

It was in these words that the official NATO representative chose to respond to criticism regarding the numerous civilian casualties incurred by the alliance's frequent air attacks during the war in Kosovo between March and June of 1999. He insisted NATO planes bombed only "legitimate designated military targets" and if civilians had died it was because NATO had been forced into military action. Adamant that "we try to do our utmost to ensure that if there are civilians around we do not attack," Shea emphasized that "NATO does not target civilians...let's be perfectly clear about that."
However, hundreds of civilians were killed by a NATO air campaign, code named "Operation Allied Force" - which hit residential neighborhoods, old-aged sanatoriums, hospitals, open markets, columns of fleeing refugees, civilian buses and trains on bridges, and even a foreign embassy.

Exact figures are difficult to come by, but the undisputed minimum is almost 500 civilians deaths (with some estimates putting the toll as high as 1500) - including women, children and the elderly, killed about in 90 documented attacks by an alliance that included the air forces of Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Holland, Italy, Turkey, Spain, the UK, and the US. Up to 150 civilians deaths were reportedly caused by the use of cluster-bombs dropped on, or adjacent to, known civilian areas.

By contrast, the military losses inflicted by NATO on the Serbian forces during almost 80 days of aerial bombardment, unchallenged by any opposing air power, were remarkably low - with most estimates putting the figure at less than 170 killed.

Meanwhile, NATO forces suffered… no combat fatalities! This was mainly due to the decision to conduct high altitude aerial attacks which greatly reduced the danger to NATO military personnel in the air, but dramatically increased it for the Serbian (and Kosovar) civilians on the ground. Moreover, the civilian populations of the countries participating on Operation Allied Force were never attacked or - even threatened - in any way by Serbian forces.

126 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:03:53am

re: #118 Guanxi88

But not too tight, you know. Don't soap or oil the rope, but the knot dead-center in nape of neck, and make the drop about 6 inches.

Do it right.

Now there is some stuff they don't teach in freshman college courses?

127 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:03:56am

re: #124 sattv4u2

PROGRISSIVES

damn thumbs

PROGRESSIVES ,,, third times a charm!

128 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:04:05am

re: #79 lawhawk

Photo time:

Is that how you carry an injured Palestinian boy whose arm is bandaged?

Dead ambulances. Israel blamed for attacking poor defenseless ambulances, but let's not forget that Hamas has used 'em for carrying their terrorists around town in the past to attack Israel.

Celebrating a mass murderer in Gaza.

Gee, we're supposed to listen to the OIS when they invite the Sudanese leader who's overseen the Darfur genocide to the table?

But for the presence of kids in the photograph of Said Siam's funeral procession, it looks like a target-rich environment.

129 lifeofthemind  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:04:16am

re: #89 tokyobk

Almost a flying lamb shwarma moment.

They know where this is going, and they know Iran has always been one step removed from the Arab sphere, with as deep an attachment to Islam but not the deference to the Saudis.

BTW, do the Jews get law of return for Mecca and Medina, by the logic waged against Israel.

Medina was the Jewish city of Yathrib, Mecca was the home of the polytheists.

130 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:04:27am

re: #111 notutopia

Well, it's not like those Hamassholes have any brains.

131 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:04:28am

re: #123 Ford_Prefect

Yes, and how many of the 'Palestinians' were actually members of Hamas, family of Hamas or being used as human shields by Hamas? I would say roughly 1,100.

I hate to keep reminding you, but the term isn't "human shields." They use their people as sandbags and back-stops, effin' beasts.

132 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:04:55am

re: #74 itellu3times

Of course the offers from the hamasthugs sitting safe in Damascus are not serious.
Of course they think it'll be to their advantage once the Inauguration is over.

There are hwoever two aspects which they (and a lot of the MFM!) are overlooking:
* meanwhile, the IDF is creating facts on the ground, and I would not be surprised if some more Gazan hamassholes will join the others to gaze at the 72 virgins (no touching, see!) for all eternity - perhaps even over the weekend.

* last night we briefly pondered if the Israeli politicians may not already have some back channels to the B0 administration - with the lovely shining proze for B0 to 'make peace in the ME if he goes along with the aims of the IDF. Not for public consumption, naturally, but I think this is not beyond the realms of possibilities.

Finally - any israeli politician right now agreeing to a cease fire as its on the table at the present will not get re-elected. thats a certainty - and they know it!

133 Shr_Nfr  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:05:12am

re: #80 Mich-again

My only concern is that the IDF folks stationed in it would be a rather compact target for Hamas.

134 midwestgak  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:05:16am

re: #122 Kosh's Shadow

Hillary will be in charge of foreign policy, and Bill will handle the foreign affairs.

lol

135 DeafDog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:05:46am

re: #109 midwestgak

If Obama/Clinton continue the Bush policy, their base will deflate - since it will be an immediate admission that Bush's aggresiveness has merit. Obama and Clinton have a big decision looming.

Hey Deaf - took me a minute to realize you were referring to H. Clinton. Automatically though of Bill and thought, why would Bill be involved? lol

The Clinton Foundation wants their Arab donations to continue. As long as the Saudis are supporting the action, Clinton will support it.

On the bright side - I am going to get a chuckle when the Gaza War protesters start with the Obama/Hitler posters.

136 Age Of Freedom  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:06:04am

re: #92 MandyManners

What about Turkey?

Turkey?
Read post 33 NOW!

137 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:06:34am

re: #108 DeafDog

As I mentione in #93, if Obama/Clinton continue the Bush policy, their base will deflate - since it will be an immediate admission that Bush's aggresiveness has merit. Obama has big domestic policy plans, and maintaining that political base is important. He may not do what you expect.

Obama/Clinton have a big decision looming.

The assumption underlying all of that is one that I am not sure of. I don't think Obama's base thinks critically. If they did, "Bush lied, people died" would not have rung true to them. They'd have seen matters for how they played out. Instead, they wanted a narrative where republican = bad and democrat = good.

The "base" for the democrats is not a cohesive whole - it is a gaggle of folks with their eyes closed and ears covered bent on "fixing things" that were never broken.

As long as Obama blows his magic smoke up the right asses the "base" won't revolt. The socialist/marxist/code pinkers will but they will share the fate of Cindy Shehan and learn that they were just a prop on a stage that they never owned.

138 Shr_Nfr  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:07:05am

re: #126 Nevergiveup

Short drop? Oh well, if its good enough for the Iranians its good enough to use on Hamas. Rather nasty way to do it though.

139 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:07:06am

re: #126 Nevergiveup

Now there is some stuff they don't teach in freshman college courses?

Eh, one sort of picks these things up as one goes along. (I was privileged to meet a serviceman who personally dispatched a number of Nazis to Hell on the end of a rope in Nuremberg. He said he always did it to specifications, except for the one guy who spit in his face. Seems he misplaced the knot on him. Awful, simply awful.)

140 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:07:08am

re: #127 sattv4u2

PROGRESSIVES ,,, third times a charm!

It is getting origressively PROGRISSIVELY PROGRESSIVELY better.

141 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:07:10am

re: #136 Age Of Freedom

Turkey?
Read post 33 NOW!

Well, disregard my No. 92.

142 itellu3times  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:07:16am

re: #113 yma o hyd

I dunno, I'm still really sour on this entire action. I give it a grudging C grade, simply because it has apparently been pulled off with fairly low Israeli casualties.

143 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:07:34am

re: #135 DeafDog

The Clinton Foundation wants their Arab donations to continue. As long as the Saudis are supporting the action, Clinton will support it.

On the bright side - I am going to get a chuckle when the Gaza War protesters start with the Obama/Hitler posters.

And right now, the Saudis want Hamas hit hard, to take down Iran a few notches. They might even be willing to support an attack on Iran's nuclear program.

144 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:07:45am

re: #131 Guanxi88

I hate to keep reminding you, but the term isn't "human shields." They use their people as sandbags and back-stops, effin' beasts.

Same result.

145 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:07:50am

re: #113 yma o hyd
Good afternoon {yma}! "any israeli politician right now agreeing to a cease fire as its on the table at the present will not get re-elected. thats a certainty - and they know it!'
Absolutely correct. Hamas MUST be destroyed. Totally and completely and frankly fuck BO if he doesn't like it.

146 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:08:08am

re: #140 Ford_Prefect

It is getting origressively PROGRISSIVELY PROGRESSIVELY better.

Hey ,, ya think it's easy being me !?!?!

147 lifeofthemind  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:08:32am

Speaking of target rich enviornments, Isrealycool linked to a JPost article that there is a meeting in Doha Qatar with Hamas leaders and the Presidents of Iran, Lebanon, and Syria.

148 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:08:35am

re: #120 realwest

Isn't it a tad strange that the only Persian nation in the ME is the Main supporter of Hamas/Hezbollah? The Arab states have - on rare occasion - made pro forma protests about Israel, but you could tell they didn't really blame Israel. But the Persian state of Iran did.
Ya know, my biggest - or one of my biggest disappoitments with Bush was the same one I had with his father and, sad to say, Ronnie: Iran declared war on the US in 1979 and none of us have taken them up on that.

I will never understand why we have never cleaned Iran's clock. The Arabs would probably be willing to pay for it (as long as they'd be allowed to condemn us on camera first).

149 Kragar  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:09:25am

re: #145 realwest

Good afternoon {yma}! "any israeli politician right now agreeing to a cease fire as its on the table at the present will not get re-elected. thats a certainty - and they know it!'
Absolutely correct. Hamas MUST be destroyed. Totally and completely and frankly fuck BO if he doesn't like it.

Conversely, they have to appear to be interested in a ceasefire to keep international powers happy and the pressure off or at least down.

150 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:09:35am

re: #140 Ford_Prefect

It is getting origressively PROGRISSIVELY PROGRESSIVELY better.

Do me a favor! DOWNDING me for making a mistake in my 1st fix! I deserve it

(bows head in shame!)

151 Dainn  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:09:48am

re: #120 realwest

I agree. Reagans approach to terrorism actually strengethend it. Pulling out of Lebanon after the Marine barracks incident and arms-for-hostages with Iran. Bush 41 was much better: never negotiate. When I saw hostages released during that administration and thanking HW Bush for not negotiating, it was clear to me: negotiation with terrorists means more terrorism. The sad thing about this is that a lot of people will die if you don't negotiate, but it prevents future attacks.

This is what scares me about Obama. Will he have the stones to face down terrorism? I hope so, but I doubt it.

BTW I loved Reagan and would have voted for him (my first vote was for HW Bush). But his terrorism policy was horrible.

152 Texas Heathen  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:10:32am

re: #140 Ford_Prefect

It is getting origressively PROGRISSIVELY PROGRESSIVELY better.

I thought origressively was a new obama term. didn't realize it was a typo.

153 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:11:01am

re: #147 lifeofthemind

Speaking of target rich enviornments, Isrealycool linked to a JPost article that there is a meeting in Doha Qatar with Hamas leaders and the Presidents of Iran, Lebanon, and Syria.

Note that Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia stayed away.
Maybe this could get the Arabs and Persians fighting amongst themselves for a while. Not good for oil prices, though.

154 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:11:10am

re: #147 lifeofthemind
Auugggh! The temptation must be overwhelming for Israel (and should be for Bush as he walks out the door!).

155 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:11:15am

re: #150 sattv4u2

Do me a favor! DOWNDING me for making a mistake in my 1st fix! I deserve it

(bows head in shame!)

No can do. We all have been there before. Just remember, spell check is our friend.

156 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:11:17am

re: #33 Age Of Freedom

Tayyip Erdogan, the Islamists PM in Turkey said:

Turkish PM says Israel should be barred from UN

Even IF he was right, and Israel was committing war crimes (when in fact it's the hamas that shoots as civilians, at civilians while hiding cowardly behind civilians - especially women and children), Turkey is among the lines of Germany - as in really friggin' far up at the top 5 or 3 on the list - as far as having pure absolute zero moral right to criticize others of "war crimes".

Maximum Fuck you, Turkey, you fomented liars.

Turkey has an Islamist problem they're dealing with. They're currently also one of Israel's closest ties in the world, and IAF and Turkish air force train together. You think Turkey is going to give that up? I don't think so.

That message is for domestic consumption, but you're right that Turkey has zero moral authority to talk. Throw in their absolutely horrific treatment of Armenians and Kurds, and they should pipe down.

Add to that the current meetings in Qatar where they've invited the Sudanese thugs responsible for the Darfur genocide. Yeah, I'm really going to listen to them moralize on Israel's conduct when Darfur has been home to ethnic cleansing and genocide of hundreds of thousands, and the displacement of millions of Sudanese. The government in Khartoum has done everything to obstruct aid to Darfur and blocked humanitarian relief.

Yet, they're lecturing Israel.

Right.

The media ignores all this.

157 DeafDog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:11:45am

re: #117 sattv4u2

re: #137 karmic_inquisitor

Good points. If the calculation is that victory can come soon and without 10k deaths, then you could be right. Obama/Clinton might let this continue. If the calculation is that the campaign will need to go on for a substantially longer time, then they will cut and run.

All bets are off if Joe Biden is involved with the decision. He'll bring back the Fwench like they say at katie's Diner.

158 PayBackTime  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:13:06am

More like progressively WORSE.

The lefties and neo-commies think that "progressive" is always better.

Like progressive blindness.

159 pegcity  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:13:07am

re: #33 Age Of Freedom

when are the Turkish military going to overthrow this asshole already?

160 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:13:20am

re: #155 Ford_Prefect

No can do. We all have been there before. Just remember, spell check is our friend.

I'm too old fashioned for that. Hell, if it were up to me we'd all be writing on our screens with the Palmer Method of Penmanship!

(too bad Goddess wasn't here ,, SHE'D give me an upding for that!)

161 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:13:42am

re: #148 karmic_inquisitor

I will never understand why we have never cleaned Iran's clock. The Arabs would probably be willing to pay for it (as long as they'd be allowed to condemn us on camera first).

Everybody (nearly all mideastern countries) wanted Saddam's clock cleaned. They feared Saddam, and bought into the WMD ruse.

At the time, Iran was all talk, and nobody feared them.

Now, the sentiment is "U.S.A get out of Iraq". Iran is currently only threatening the popular villain in the area -- Israel.

The whole deal is "get rid of our nightmares, then get out", and we get criticized both ways.

162 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:14:18am

re: #157 DeafDog

re: #137 karmic_inquisitor

Good points. If the calculation is that victory can come soon and without 10k deaths, then you could be right. Obama/Clinton might let this continue. If the calculation is that the campaign will need to go on for a substantially longer time, then they will cut and run.

All bets are off if Joe Biden is involved with the decision. He'll bring back the Fwench like they say at katie's Diner.

FWIW, Joe Biden will be a "please go attend the funeral of xxxxx dignitary in yyyyy country. And don't talk to any reporters en route" Vice President.

163 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:14:21am

re: #145 realwest

Good afternoon {yma}! "any israeli politician right now agreeing to a cease fire as its on the table at the present will not get re-elected. thats a certainty - and they know it!'
Absolutely correct. Hamas MUST be destroyed. Totally and completely and frankly fuck BO if he doesn't like it.

Hiya, {rw}!

Here is something which the MFM won't report, even though its in a proper newspaper, albeit an israeli one:

A Wednesday survey by Tel Aviv University reported the support at a staggering 94 percent among Israeli Jews. But hearing this first-hand offers an insight the polls can't give: the rationale for that support despite international condemnation and images of carnage out of Gaza.

(From 'a Reporter's Notebook/Jerusalem Post)

164 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:14:28am

re: #160 sattv4u2

I'm too old fashioned for that. Hell, if it were up to me we'd all be writing on our screens with the Palmer Method of Penmanship!

(too bad Goddess wasn't here ,, SHE'D give me an upding for that!)

Here ya go. Even the Goddess can't be everywhere.

165 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:15:23am

re: #151 Dainn Well keep in mind that while Reagan was President, terrorism as we now know it wasn't really in view. My disappointment was more directed at his not taking military action against Iran for the '79 takeover of the US Embassy and the holding of US citizens hostage for 444 days. The Marine Barracks thing was a mistake which I think could be laid at the feet of the Joint Chiefs of Staff - US Armed Forces are not and to the best of my knowledge have never been really trained as peacekeepers.

166 Dainn  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:15:46am

re: #157 DeafDog

re: #137 karmic_inquisitor
All bets are off if Joe Biden is involved with the decision. He'll bring back the Fwench like they say at katie's Diner.

Biden will be locked in the room under the stairs in Hillary's house till Feb 2017

167 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:15:51am

re: #162 karmic_inquisitor

FWIW, Joe Biden will be a "please go attend the funeral of xxxxx dignitary in yyyyy country. And don't talk to any reporters en route" Vice President.

If he does talk to reporters, though, our worldwide image will sure improve.
//

168 goddessoftheclassroom  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:16:15am

re: #160 sattv4u2

I'm too old fashioned for that. Hell, if it were up to me we'd all be writing on our screens with the Palmer Method of Penmanship!

(too bad Goddess wasn't here ,, SHE'D give me an upding for that!)

I am here! :)

Seriously, handwriting is falling to keyboarding skills in elementary schools.

169 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:16:39am

re: #165 realwest

Well keep in mind that while Reagan was President, terrorism as we now know it wasn't really in view. My disappointment was more directed at his not taking military action against Iran for the '79 takeover of the US Embassy and the holding of US citizens hostage for 444 days. The Marine Barracks thing was a mistake which I think could be laid at the feet of the Joint Chiefs of Staff - US Armed Forces are not and to the best of my knowledge have never been really trained as peacekeepers.

But the Hostages were released the day Reagan took the oath of Office?

170 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:16:46am

I think lunch just arrived. I will be back later. Play nice, Lizards!

171 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:16:58am

re: #153 Kosh's Shadow
"Note that Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia stayed away.
Maybe this could get the Arabs and Persians fighting amongst themselves for a while. Not good for oil prices, though."
I'm willing to pay higher oil prices if we take advantage of that target rich environment.

172 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:17:22am

re: #156 lawhawk

Erdogan is a closet Islamist - his party abrely survived judicial condemnation for trying to dismate the secular state.
He send his daughters to the USA, btw, because they can wear the hijab at American Universities, something which is illegal at Turkish universities ...

173 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:17:26am

re: #157 DeafDog

Obama/Clinton might let this continue

And they can always pull a Carter. Make the peace terms so untenable to one side or the other (most likely Israel) that a side will have to refuse. Then Obama/Clinton can sit back and blame Israel for not accepting the plan that the Messiah came up with

174 Texas Heathen  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:17:46am

re: #165 realwest

YET

175 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:18:00am

re: #106 Fat Jolly Penguin

"I hate newspapermen. They come into camp and pick up their camp rumors and print them as facts. I regard them as spies, which, in truth, they are. If I killed them all there would be news from Hell before breakfast."

~Gen. William T. Sherman

All due respect, but Sherman never really said this, it is apocryphal, just like his famous "War is Hell" quote. He did cause a reporter to be arrested and put on trial before a military tribunal for espionage (the reporter was acquitted of espionage, but convicted on two lesser counts). When a steamboat full of reporters sank in the Mississippi, Sherman supposedly quipped, "Great! We'll have dispatches from Hell before breakfast!"

176 DeafDog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:18:39am

re: #151 Dainn

With the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, one could say that Reagan also dropped the ball in Afghanastan, too. We just didn't realize back then all that was happening.

That changed 9/11/2001.

177 kay1212  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:18:48am

re: #17 bombarafat

t's amazing the Baghdad Bob syndrome is all over the Islamofascist world. Here is this moron who is not in any position to be making demands, doing just that, making demands.

No deal without Gilead Shalit.

It's not only Baghdad Bob but the Black Knight from Monty Python. I didn't link because you all know it.

"You've got no arms left".

"Yes, I have"

"No, you don't".

"it's just a flesh wound."

178 redstateredneck  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:18:49am

re: #168 goddessoftheclassroom

Seriously, handwriting is falling to keyboarding skills in elementary schools.


My 18 yr. old has terrible handwriting, but she can text and keyboard her ass off.

179 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:19:17am

re: #151 Dainn

I agree. Reagans approach to terrorism actually strengethend it. Pulling out of Lebanon after the Marine barracks incident and arms-for-hostages with Iran. Bush 41 was much better: never negotiate. When I saw hostages released during that administration and thanking HW Bush for not negotiating, it was clear to me: negotiation with terrorists means more terrorism. The sad thing about this is that a lot of people will die if you don't negotiate, but it prevents future attacks.

This is what scares me about Obama. Will he have the stones to face down terrorism? I hope so, but I doubt it.

BTW I loved Reagan and would have voted for him (my first vote was for HW Bush). But his terrorism policy was horrible.

I agree. As much as I loved Reagan (I voted for him twice), putting the Marines in Lebanon, and negotiating with the mullahs in Iran, were terrible ideas.

180 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:19:41am

re: #168 goddessoftheclassroom

I am here! :)

Seriously, handwriting is falling to keyboarding skills in elementary schools.

They tried to teach me penmanship in elementary school, but I'm left handed and they didn't explain the differences in the way us sinister people need to write. Besides, I find it hard to write well. I have to be slow and careful.
So I learned to type on an old (1920's) Underwood standard. My mother drew a chart of the keys and had me look at that while I typed.

181 DeafDog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:20:02am

re: #166 Dainn

Biden will be locked in the room under the stairs in Hillary's house till Feb 20172012

Bite your toungue!

182 Digital Display  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:20:19am

re: #168 goddessoftheclassroom

I am here! :)

Seriously, handwriting is falling to keyboarding skills in elementary schools.

Good Afternoon Goddess!
Snow day today?

183 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:21:18am

re: #161 jwb7605

Everybody (nearly all mideastern countries) wanted Saddam's clock cleaned. They feared Saddam, and bought into the WMD ruse.

At the time, Iran was all talk, and nobody feared them.

Now, the sentiment is "U.S.A get out of Iraq". Iran is currently only threatening the popular villain in the area -- Israel.

The whole deal is "get rid of our nightmares, then get out", and we get criticized both ways.

Lotsa trepidation about Iran in places like The Magic Kingdom. Read a report a while back that alleges that the Saudis paid for the Pakistani nuclear weapons program so that they could have access to nukes if Iran became a problem. Iran represents more of an existential threat to the Sauds than Israel does - Israel doesn't want to take over Mecca and Medina. Amadinnejad sees such a takeover by Shia as inevitable.

184 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:21:51am

re: #173 sattv4u2

Obama/Clinton might let this continue

And they can always pull a Carter. Make the peace terms so untenable to one side or the other (most likely Israel) that a side will have to refuse. Then Obama/Clinton can sit back and blame Israel for not accepting the plan that the Messiah came up with

I can't see 0bama coming up with a plan that would be acceptable to Israel. And there's no way any Pali "leader" will take less than Arafat was offered.

185 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:22:45am

re: #168 goddessoftheclassroom

Mwwaaaa :)

186 Nevergiveup  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:22:52am

re: #183 karmic_inquisitor

Lotsa trepidation about Iran in places like The Magic Kingdom. Read a report a while back that alleges that the Saudis paid for the Pakistani nuclear weapons program so that they could have access to nukes if Iran became a problem. Iran represents more of an existential threat to the Sauds than Israel does - Israel doesn't want to take over Mecca and Medina. Amadinnejad sees such a takeover by Shia as inevitable.

I remember reading the same thing about the Saudi's paying for the Paki Nuclear program for those reasons also.

187 Dainn  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:23:04am

re: #165 realwest

Well keep in mind that while Reagan was President, terrorism as we now know it wasn't really in view. My disappointment was more directed at his not taking military action against Iran for the '79 takeover of the US Embassy and the holding of US citizens hostage for 444 days. The Marine Barracks thing was a mistake which I think could be laid at the feet of the Joint Chiefs of Staff - US Armed Forces are not and to the best of my knowledge have never been really trained as peacekeepers.

If anything, Reagan helped create the modern terrorist movement by not recognizing the power it would have. The Marine barracks incident showed the world's terrorist rabble that they could change US policy with the death of one man in a truck. We became the paper tiger, and we have been trying hard to prove that we are serious ever since. And negotiating with Iran for the release of the embassy hostages: unforgivable. This is all clear now, but it should have been clear back then too.

Anyways, Obama should learn from their mistakes. Don't negotiate with terrorists. And Hamas = terrorist.

188 jcm  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:23:18am

re: #151 Dainn

I agree. Reagans approach to terrorism actually strengethend it. Pulling out of Lebanon after the Marine barracks incident and arms-for-hostages with Iran. Bush 41 was much better: never negotiate. When I saw hostages released during that administration and thanking HW Bush for not negotiating, it was clear to me: negotiation with terrorists means more terrorism. The sad thing about this is that a lot of people will die if you don't negotiate, but it prevents future attacks.

This is what scares me about Obama. Will he have the stones to face down terrorism? I hope so, but I doubt it.

BTW I loved Reagan and would have voted for him (my first vote was for HW Bush). But his terrorism policy was horrible.

That was one of the few bones of contention I had with RWR, not pursuing the hostage issue with Iran, the Lebanon strategy and pull out, the poor handling of the captives in Lebanon.

189 Blackacre  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:23:47am

re: #21 PayBackTime

On a more realistic note, ANY ceasefire between Israel and hamas must be predicated on hamas returning giving the ICRC (International Red Cross) access to captured Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit ....

Fixed that for you!

190 Digital Display  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:23:57am

re: #180 Kosh's Shadow

They tried to teach me penmanship in elementary school, but I'm left handed and they didn't explain the differences in the way us sinister people need to write. Besides, I find it hard to write well. I have to be slow and careful.
So I learned to type on an old (1920's) Underwood standard. My mother drew a chart of the keys and had me look at that while I typed.

dang nuns.. I'm a lefty also..They worked me over for hours on my handwriting to make me look like a righty..Hated it! But I do get complements when people see my technique..

191 Dainn  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:24:03am

re: #176 DeafDog

With the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, one could say that Reagan also dropped the ball in Afghanastan, too. We just didn't realize back then all that was happening.

That changed 9/11/2001.

I completely agree. I hope that stays changed.

192 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:24:24am

re: #163 yma o hyd
Excellent post and superb link yma! 94% support of anything political in a democracy is almost unheard of.
And that's partly why the "World Community" hasn't lashed out at Israel more than it has (I exclude Human Rights Watch and the IRC from the World Community). Hamas mis-underestimated the support it would get for indiscriminately killing Israeli civilians from it's Arab brethren much less how viciously opposed to it Israel was.
That's why Hamas MUST DIE. Period.

193 sattv4u2  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:24:38am

re: #180 Kosh's Shadow

They tried to teach me penmanship in elementary school, but I'm left handed

My mothers left handed also. In school they forced her to learn to write with her right hand.

194 samsgran1948  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:24:47am

IMHO, Israel needs to sneak into Damascus and off Mashaal as a demonstration of its reach. Take out Whatzzizname of Hizbullah at the same time. That would really take the wind out of a lot of sails.

But since that doesn't look like happening, the next best thing is for the IDF to completely wipe out the senior ranks of Hamas on the ground in Gaza -- starting with Haniyeh.

Accepting a hudna now is not in Israel's best interest. It needs to seize and maintain possession of the Philadelphi Corridor with the promise that it will be thoroughly mined with sound detecting devices that will trigger bunker busters -- or worse -- at the first hint of tunneling.

I wish Israel would also outright annex the West Bank, then give each Arab a financial settlement as he or she is escorted out of the country. The West Bank was supposed to be part of Israel at the time of partition, and the Arabs illegally occupied it. Allowing the West Bank to continue as an Arab out station is suicide -- as would be giving back the Golan Heights. Israel needs to tell Syria to go pound sand because the Golan Heights are now and ever will be a part of Israel.

195 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:25:39am

re: #176 DeafDog

With the benefit of 20-20 hindsight, one could say that Reagan also dropped the ball in Afghanastan, too. We just didn't realize back then all that was happening.

That changed 9/11/2001.

Just so everyone is clear, the Democrat narrative (as made clear in Charlie Wilson's War) is that the Democrats are responsible for the Soviets getting kicked out of Afghanistan and the subsequent collapse, and that Democrats (in the form of Charlie Wilson) wanted to fund nation building in Afghanistan afterward so that a modern, secular state would emerge, but the evil Republicans blocked that.

So it is the Republican's fault. Entirely.

That is the Democrat narrative courtesy of a Hollywood rewrite of history.

196 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:26:34am

re: #187 Dainn
Hindsight is always 20-20.

197 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:26:42am

re: #186 Nevergiveup

I remember reading the same thing about the Saudi's paying for the Paki Nuclear program for those reasons also.

I will have to try and find the article.

And how else could have Pakistan paid for it? Soccer ball exports?

198 Digital Display  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:28:21am

re: #196 realwest

Hindsight is always 20-20.

If that is true then why do people keep getting sent back to jail?
LOL

199 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:29:09am

re: #193 sattv4u2

They tried to teach me penmanship in elementary school, but I'm left handed

My mothers left handed also. In school they forced her to learn to write with her right hand.

They did that to an aunt I had. By my time, they had stopped.

200 Dainn  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:29:54am

re: #194 samsgran1948

IMHO, Israel needs to sneak into Damascus and off Mashaal as a demonstration of its reach. Take out Whatzzizname of Hizbullah at the same time. That would really take the wind out of a lot of sails.

If the Mossad gets the bead on that target they will take the shot. I'm sure they have been trying for years.

201 Dainn  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:32:12am

re: #196 realwest

Hindsight is always 20-20.

Then our asses need glasses.

202 alegrias  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:34:06am

re: #92 MandyManners

What about Turkey?

* * *
Turkey's no democracy in my opinion. Plus they were no ALLY when our troops needed to access Baghdad through Turkey.
Turkey can go stuff itself.

203 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:34:32am

re: #174 Texas Heathen

YET

If the U.S. military isn't (aren't?) being trained as peacekeepers, Michael Yon and Michael Totten have been misleading us in their diaries and war reports.

And David Petraeus has been concealing his real strategic purposes.

204 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:35:17am
205 imtoast  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:36:03am

re: #58 funky chicken

Nope. It was George HW and James Baker after Gulf War I, at least from what I recall. Perhaps I'm a decade and a half off on my timing, but....

[Link: www.questia.com...]
Arafat returned to the West Bank in 1969. George HW Bush had nothing to do with his return.

206 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:39:59am

re: #187 Dainn
"This is all clear now, but it should have been clear back then too."? How so? Clinton suffered the Cole, the first bombing of the WTC, and Somalia - all after Reagan "should have known" - and all he did was bomb an aspirin factory.

207 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:40:15am
208 wiffersnapper  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:48:49am

Fuck that. Israel should be asking them to surrender. No exceptions.

209 Dainn  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:49:49am

re: #206 realwest

"This is all clear now, but it should have been clear back then too."? How so? Clinton suffered the Cole, the first bombing of the WTC, and Somalia - all after Reagan "should have known" - and all he did was bomb an aspirin factory.

I don't give Clinton a pass. He proved the paper tiger myth for them.

Maybe I'm a victim of my era and can't imagine clearly what it would be like to make decisions in that time (I was 11 when the hostage crisis began), but it just seems irrational to think that when someone takes a hostage and demands something from you that giving it to them (or anything to them) would actually make them NOT want to do it again?

We reinforced the tactic.

210 Old Guy  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:50:04am

In my opinion there will never be peace in the middle east until the money stops flowing to the terrorists.
Look, there is nothing new here with respect to the hate of Jews and Israelis. Ever hear of Gen George Marshall? Yeah, the guy who helped re-build the country that allowed the world's second greatest mass murderer to thrive. But, he refused to agree with President Truman's decision to allow the birth of Israel. Why, not sure, but I believe it had to do with some black liquid in the ground of some 7th century middle east countries.
It is not in the interest of most of the United Nations countries for Israel to be left alone. Israel becomes a scapegoat and allows the fingers to be pointed at them by the muslim dominated countries as rationale for the all there problems. Historically nothing new here. Eygpt, that country receives massives amounts of money from the US and most likely would do our bidding--seeing as it's not costing us anything.
As I would bet my Redskins season tickets (big deal!) that not only will there not be peace in the mid-east in our lifetime, but there will be a disastrous war! Unless, Syria and Iran and humbled and brought to reason and democracy.

211 PayBackTime  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:50:56am

Hanan Ashrawi is the palestinian Medusa.

212 So?  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:51:41am

re: #207 buzzsawmonkey


JOURNALISM IS DEAD. RIP.

213 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:53:14am

re: #208 wiffersnapper

Fuck that. Israel should be asking them to surrender. No exceptions.

No. It should be "I don't want you to surrender, Mr. Meshaal. I want you to die."

214 So?  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:54:54am

re: #211 PayBackTime

Hanan Ashrawi is the palestinian Medusa.

She makes my skin crawl. I've never seen so many lies come out of one person's mouth over the years.

215 Old Guy  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:55:18am

PIMF - hysterical typing at # 210. Delete the before all. There should be their. Worst mistake--seeing as it's not costing "them" anything.

216 pegcity  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:55:58am

re: #213 Kosh's Shadow

i wish they killed that bastard instead of giving him that antidote

217 PayBackTime  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:56:16am

Speaking of BILLIONS of dollars, the banks asking for bailout money and the US Auto makers asking for billions of bailout money,

there should be a Regime Change of the banks and US automakers as part of the deal.

After all it was the poor decision making of the leadership of the banks and automakers that got them into trouble.

US automakers produce product that Consumer Reports says, after collecting data from owners, is inferior to foreign automakers. When to save a few bucks, US automakers use inferior designs, inferior parts in US cars, the result is inferior cars.

218 alegrias  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:56:51am

re: #207 buzzsawmonkey

Oh, but the government media are vile.

Last night: Charlie Rose, with Rashid Khalidi, the good buddy of the President-to-be, vibrating hatred over Israel daring to kill 1000 in 20+ days, and clearly furious that his cohorts were so much less successful at murdering Israeli civilians. Khalidi was joined by Roger Cohen of the New York Times, who blandly recounted the lie that there are "separate dirt roads for Arabs and paved roads for Jews."

This morning, on NPR, Hanan Ashrawi repeating lies about "Israel violating the cease-fire with Hamas."

None of this, of course, with any challenge by Rose or the NPR interlocutors. They swallow/promulgate this stuff in a torrent of bullsh*t.

* * *
No WONDER the Los Angeles Times wouldn't release the party video of Khalidi & Obama, before the election!

219 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:58:42am

re: #209 Dainn
Well I was all of 34 when the hostages were taken. And after Jimmy Carter fucked up ANY chance we had of getting 'em back alive, the Mullahs released them after the "cowboy" Reagan was elected.
AFTER we got 'em back is when I think Reagan should have said "not good enough". But when I said hindsight is 20-20, I was also thinking of current Israeli actions where they release hundreds of proven terrorists to get back the remains of Israeli soldiers.
Definitely not a good policy, that one.

220 mean Gene  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:58:57am

The mixed signals out of Hamas (depending, it seems, on where they are located) is the exact reason they cannot sign a Ceasefire Pact.
There is NO controlling legal authority in either Islam or Hamas.
One leader, a set of commanders, a whole bunch of soldiers can say one thing while another group does the opposite.
Hamas cannot even control itself.
It cannot police itself.
It simply has to go.
It has to be removed from power like the taliban was in Afghanistan.
Then, if a Hamas cell acts up BOTH IDF AND the Gazan governmental authority must kick it to the curb.
I think Israel knows this.

221 Age Of Freedom  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:29:50am

re: #156 lawhawk

Turkey has an Islamist problem they're dealing with. They're currently also one of Israel's closest ties in the world, and IAF and Turkish air force train together. You think Turkey is going to give that up? I don't think so.

I think if the world knew the overwhelming amount of hatred the Turkish mob harbors for Israelis and Jews, especially during the war in summer 06, and now, Turkey would have been permanently barred from EVER joining the EU. There have been dozens and dozens of millions of Turks protesting pro-Hamas / Hizballah / Palestinian slogans, while burning apogys of Olmert and Israel.
They have shown their true colors repeatedly. Why should Israel take it lightly?

Israel must return its ambassador from Turkey and remind the Islamists we really really don't need their favors to call us "friends" when getting top tips from IAF during training.

222 Age Of Freedom  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:31:26am

re: #221 Age Of Freedom

There have been dozens and dozens of millions of Turks protesting pro-Hamas / Hizballah / Palestinian slogans, while burning apogys of Olmert and Israel.

Clarify:
Dozens of protests, ending up in the millions of Turks protesting.

223 jcbunga  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:31:36am

It all makes sense when you define the players--

-The UN is the hippie baby time-out parent.
-Hamas is the tantrum-throwing crack baby.
-Israel is the rational, just wanna get along future Nobel Prize kid.

When the crack baby misbehaves, the time-out parent won't control them because the crack baby doesn't know any better. The crack baby screams at the store, disrupts movies, and basically makes life hell for everyone around them. In fact, to discipline the crack baby is to be insensitive to its needs. (see sensitivity training)

So, who gets punished? The rational kid, of course, because they're rational and because the hippie baby time-out parent can say they should know better.

Now, being the middle of 7 siblings, I would advise Israel to push the crack baby into the path of a bus and be done with it.

224 efuseakay  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:40:58am

Ugh no more rooster cam? :(

225 Just Another Four-letter Word  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:41:34pm

re: #147 lifeofthemind

Speaking of target rich enviornments, Isrealycool linked to a JPost article that there is a meeting in Doha Qatar with Hamas leaders and the Presidents of Iran, Lebanon, and Syria.

Yeah, as much as I'm sure the IDF would loooooooove to, it would be an act of war to go to Qatar and bomb the batsnot out of the meeting place...

...and notice the meeting was unannounced and at the last minute.

I wonder why?

But, can you say, "Industrial Accident"? I knew you could...

JAFLW

226 the_flying_pig  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:49:44pm

re: #223 jcbunga

It all makes sense when you define the players--

-The UN is the hippie baby time-out parent.
-Hamas is the tantrum-throwing crack baby.
-Israel is the rational, just wanna get along future Nobel Prize kid.

When the crack baby misbehaves, the time-out parent won't control them because the crack baby doesn't know any better. The crack baby screams at the store, disrupts movies, and basically makes life hell for everyone around them. In fact, to discipline the crack baby is to be insensitive to its needs. (see sensitivity training)

So, who gets punished? The rational kid, of course, because they're rational and because the hippie baby time-out parent can say they should know better.

Now, being the middle of 7 siblings, I would advise Israel to push the crack baby into the path of a bus and be done with it.

Beautiful analogy.

227 allah this  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 2:11:27pm
Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal, safely hiding from Israel in Syria, is talking tough with absolutely nothing to back it up.

Like Mugniyah?

/ just sayin'

228 norar  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 9:14:08pm
It’s a surreal kind of insanity, and the “international community” doesn’t even blink at it.

O well, it's not surpriseing considering that the "international community's" motto is: the Jews have no right to defend themselves if somebody wishes to exterminate them.


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