WSJ: Iran’s Manhattan Project Rushing Ahead

World • Views: 2,635

The Wall Street Journal has an article on Iran’s increasing efforts to obtain the materials needed to manufacture nuclear weapons and long range missiles: Fresh Clues of Iranian Nuclear Intrigue.

The United Arab Emirates has informed the U.S. that in September it intercepted a Chinese shipment headed to Iran of specialized aluminum sheets that can be used to make ballistic missiles. A month earlier, UAE officials also intercepted an Iran-bound shipment of titanium sheets that can be used in long-range missiles, according to a recent letter to the U.S. Commerce Department from the UAE’s Washington ambassador.

Evidence of Iran’s efforts to acquire sensitive materials also is emerging from investigations by state and federal prosecutors in New York into whether a number of major Western banks illegally handled funds for Iran and deliberately hid Iranian transactions routed through the U.S. One focus of the inquiries is the role of Italy, including the Rome branch of Iran’s Bank Sepah and Italy’s Banca Intesa Sanpaolo Spa. Banca Intesa said it is cooperating in the inquiries.

The developments could present President-elect Barack Obama with an early test in responding to what many Washington security officials now say is a rapidly growing threat to the region, including U.S. allies Israel and Saudi Arabia.

All of the high-performance metals Iran has been acquiring also have industrial uses such as commercial aviation and manufacturing, making it difficult for intelligence agencies to be absolutely certain how the materials are being used. “We can’t say we know it would, or would not, be used for military purposes,” said proliferation expert Gary Milholland of the nonprofit Wisconsin Project on Nuclear Arms Control, noting that broad economic sanctions on Tehran led by the U.S. mean Iran has to go to unusual lengths to find high-grade materials for industrial use as well as weapons.

Still, he added, “There doesn’t seem to be any real doubt or debate whether Iran is going for the bomb or whether Iran is using front companies to import things. Everyone agrees on that around the world.

Everyone agrees Iran is going for the ultimate weapon. That’s nice. Is there a point when this agreement would translate into real action to stop it, or does “everyone” just resign themselves to do nothing as disaster approaches?

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513 comments
1 Opinionated  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:25:41am

Iran goes nuclear just as the US inaugurates the man least likely to do the right thing.

Hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhheeeellllllllllllllllllllllllllllllpppppppppppppppp

2 alegrias  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:25:50am

Thank you for reporting this, Charles.

3 pegcity  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:26:08am

So When Newyork or L.A is a smoking hole will people say why didn't we do anything to stop it?

4 snuffyword  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:26:35am

Maybe the UN should send in inspectors - just to be sure
/

5 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:27:10am

We are in grave danger. The winds of war are blowing......and the new captain at the helm is a rookie
*shiver*

6 alegrias  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:27:11am

Our friends the Chinese--who supply terrorist regimes--can take their Pandas and cheap crap & shove it.

7 jake341  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:27:11am

Oh, don't be such an alarmist. All we have to do is have Obama and Hillary sit down and have a nice chat over tea with those poor misguided souls....

/need I?

8 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:27:39am
9 mean Gene  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:27:50am

I wonder how ''the 0ne'' is planning on responding?
Does he even have plans?
Can he be sweet talked by anyone who hated Bush?
His advisers ( the Woodrow Wilson Center for Scholars and the Iraq Study Group) are the very ones who said the surge wouldn't work.
[Link: www.americanthinker.com...]

10 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:27:54am

Maybe as part of the stimulus package Pelosi and Reid can fund the development of the ultimate laser weapon - an extremely intimidating laser printer that produces the most harshly worded letters ever!

Come on Nancy and Harry - spend a couple billion on that!

11 jcm  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:27:57am

Time to bring out the MOP!play_article/282449/32/NEWS/none/none/Air-Force-ready-to-deploy-30,000-pound-%27super-bomb%27-on-stealthy-B-2-jet-bomber/

12 red satellite  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:28:01am
Everyone agrees on that around the world.

Give or take a few thousand in Hollywood and at the NY Times.

13 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:28:11am

re: #3 pegcity

So When Newyork or L.A is a smoking hole will people say why didn't we do anything to stop it?

We'll at least be able to take comfort in the fact that we didn't waterboard anybody. Except our own SEALS, in their training.....but I guess that's ok.......
/////

14 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:28:32am

Semi-OT: "Iranian Unit" Destroyed, Hamas was Suprised

The so-called "Iranian Unit" of Hamas has been destroyed, according to Gaza sources cited Thursday by the Haaretz daily. The sources said most of the unit's 100 members were killed in fighting in the Zeytun neighborhood of Gaza City.

The terrorists had been trained in infantry tactics, the use of anti-tank missiles and the detonation of explosives, among other skills, by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard at Hizbullah camps in Lebanon's Beka'a Valley, as well as sites in Iran.

15 winston06  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:28:33am

Only an ultimate regime change in Iran will save us all. Israel and US won't find peace until the Mullahs of Iran are gone for good.

16 tfc3rid  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:28:48am

re: #3 pegcity

So When Newyork or L.A is a smoking hole will people say why didn't we do anything to stop it?

They will say George Bush didn't do anythign to stop it...

17 winston06  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:28:50am

re: #14 Killgore Trout

thats good news

18 alegrias  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:30:08am

re: #15 winston06

Only an ultimate regime change in Iran will save us all. Israel and US won't find peace until the Mullahs of Iran are gone for good.

* * *
Well, the Chinese who supply Iran with "dual use" exports are also topple-worthy! And their little North Korean puppet too.

19 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:30:21am

re: #3 pegcity

So When Newyork or L.A is a smoking hole will people say why didn't we do anything to stop it?

It's FEMA's fault.
/

20 itellu3times  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:31:36am

re: #14 Killgore Trout

Heads-up fighting is just not what they want to do. Even if they were competent, which I doubt, they are outgunned 100:1. no air assets, etc.

So long, you Iranian units, have a nice time in hell, you love death, the place is made for you.

21 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:31:50am

re: #14 Killgore Trout

Semi-OT: "Iranian Unit" Destroyed, Hamas was Suprised

Very interesting that these guys were trained by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. Might that be an indication that the IRG ain't all it's cracked up to be?

(One can only hope?)

22 Kragar  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:32:26am

My prediction on how the first Iranian Nuke will be tested.

Another situation like Gaza or Fallujah or Afghanistan. Jihadis fighting a conventional military, loosing badly and falling back. When enough regular troops are in the area, the Jihadis pop the nuke, wiping out the troops, the city and themselves. Its a no lose situation for them.

23 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:32:30am

re: #19 Walter L. Newton

It's FEMA's fault.
/

re: #19 Walter L. Newton

It's FEMA's fault.
/

COme to think of it, where was FEMA yesterday when that jet crash landed on the Hudson? Why didn't FEMA respond faster!

/

24 ThinkRight  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:33:21am

re: #4 snuffyword

Maybe the UN should send in inspectors - just to be sure
/


Nothing to see here /move along

25 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:33:40am

re: #9 mean Gene

I wonder how ''the 0ne'' is planning on responding?
Does he even have plans?
Can he be sweet talked by anyone who hated Bush?
His advisers ( the Woodrow Wilson Center for Scholars and the Iraq Study Group) are the very ones who said the surge wouldn't work.
[Link: www.americanthinker.com...]

He has a plan:

He'll sit down with the Iranians and they will be amazed and made peaceful by the power of The One. HOPE! CHANGE! (Puke!)

26 maddogg  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:33:44am

Its OK, Barry will talk sense into the psychotic blood swilling death seeking Mullahs running Iran. Donchathink? He is a lightworker, after all...

/man, I think I hurt myself..

27 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:33:51am

Thanks for this thread Charles - extemely disturbing though it is.

28 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:34:18am

re: #9 mean Gene

I wonder how ''the 0ne'' is planning on responding?
Does he even have plans?

Yes, he does have plans. He'll let Haifa, Tel Aviv, and any other city with the misfortune of being hit by an Iranian nuclear warhead burn to a cinder. (This goes for European cities, too, but for Israeli cities, it goes double.)

He won't do one damned thing to stop this; the Iranian regime will have its nukes and the means of delivery very soon. They won't have to fire a single shot in anger after that; the mere prospect that they might get trigger-happy would be enough to intimidate the One and his minions/priests.

Take a look at the Clinton foreign policy record for a pretty fair indication of how things will go worldwide: Deciding to nation-build in Somalia, we take casualties due to PC rules of engagement, and run. Yugoslavia? We bombed the bejeezuz out of Yugoslavia in support of Albanian jihadists seeking the creation of a state ripped from Yugoslavia after explicitly telling the Yugo's we would not support further secessionist movements. NATO became the KLA's airforce, and the genius Allbright decided to bomb the Yugos and THEN try diplomacy to negotiate the surrender of Yugo territory to Albanian drug-smugglers and/or jihadists mobbed up with AQ.

Yeah, I think we can count on a complete and total clusterf**k. On wheels.

29 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:35:07am

Dinnerjacket wants a functional bomb by the 20th... 21st (maybe)... if the scientists can't make delivery, heads will roll.

30 Age Of Freedom  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:35:16am

Present.

31 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:35:34am

re: #25 Dark_Falcon

re: #26 maddogg

You guys are both right. What are we worrying about?

Obama gets in office on Tuesday, so all of the problems in the Middle East should be solved by Friday prayers.

32 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:35:58am

re: #21 subsailor68
Well I don't know - remember how "great" the vaunted Iraqi Republican Guard was supposed to be?
Methinks we in the West are chary of calling anyone or any group "special" whereas those in Persian or Arab states seem to always have these vaunted groups of special warriors who turn out to be.........not so special at all!

33 alegrias  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:36:15am

OT, meanwhile Cuba attacks the female president of the region of Madrid Spain, calling her a terrorist-financed stooge of the US. (Hint: Ms. Esperanza ("Hope") Aguirre is NOT affiliated with socialist Zapatero's party)

Cuba, the paradise Gulag with millions of inmates jailed internally.

Viva Esperanza Aguirre for telling Fidel to shut up!

[Link: www.larazon.es...]

34 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:36:17am

re: #27 realwest

Thanks for this thread Charles - extemely disturbing though it is.

Hi RW. I'll second that. I just don't understand people who think the Iranian regime (and the mullahs) having this technology is no big deal, or that it can't be stopped anyway, or - my personal (spit) favorite: other countries have nukes. It's madness.

35 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:36:17am

re: #29 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Dinnerjacket wants a functional bomb by the 20th... 21st (maybe)... if the scientists can't make delivery, heads will roll.

Linky?

36 Kragar  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:36:29am

re: #21 subsailor68

Very interesting that these guys were trained by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. Might that be an indication that the IRG ain't all it's cracked up to be?

(One can only hope?)

"Two captured terrorists interviewed by Maariv/NRG say that Hamas was not expecting Israel's response to the escalation in missile attacks on Israeli targets that preceded Operation Cast Lead. One of them, a 52-year-old victim of a premature detonation who had already done time in an Israeli jail, said, "Hamas took a gamble. We thought, at worst Israel will come and do something from the air - something superficial. They'll come in and go out. We never thought that we would reach the point where fear will swallow the heart and the feet will want to flee. You [Israel] are fighting like you fought in '48. What got into you all of a sudden?""

Dont start shit you can't finish. Worthless fucking scum. When they identify guys they've caught a second time, it should be summary execution. BLAM, 2 strikes, you're out.

37 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:36:44am

re: #29 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Dinnerjacket wants a functional bomb by the 20th... 21st (maybe)... if the scientists can't make delivery, heads will roll.

No time pressure - it isn't like Obama is going to do anything aggressive.

Or did you mean January 20, 2013?

38 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:36:54am

re: #32 realwest

That would be "EliteRepublicanGuard" one word. Get it right.

Thank you.

--MSM

39 yma o hyd  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:37:08am

re: #21 subsailor68

Very interesting that these guys were trained by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. Might that be an indication that the IRG ain't all it's cracked up to be?

(One can only hope?)

Might also send a few shivers down the spine of Hissssbullah - their 'military' is trained by the IRG as well ...

40 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:37:15am

re: #35 Walter L. Newton

Linky?

My crystal ball. :-)

41 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:37:29am

re: #18 alegrias
I agree completely, but think the chance of "Regime Change" are somewhat better in Iran than in China!
But one can dream!

42 ThinkRight  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:37:37am

re: #26 maddogg

Its OK, Barry will talk sense into the psychotic blood swilling death seeking Mullahs running Iran. Donchathink? He is a lightworker, after all...

/man, I think I hurt myself..

I bet he would help them get the materials and knowledge to build them

43 tfc3rid  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:37:43am

re: #37 karmic_inquisitor

the World won't like us if we do something 'aggressive'. The world will support us making nice with Iran and understaaaaaanding them.

44 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:37:47am

re: #14 Killgore Trout

Semi-OT: "Iranian Unit" Destroyed, Hamas was Suprised

One of them, a 52-year-old victim of a premature detonation who had already done time in an Israeli jail, said, "Hamas took a gamble. We thought, at worst Israel will come and do something from the air - something superficial. They'll come in and go out. We never thought that we would reach the point where fear will swallow the heart and the feet will want to flee. You [Israel] are fighting like you fought in '48. What got into you all of a sudden?"

This is priceless.

45 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:37:50am

re: #23 karmic_inquisitor

COme to think of it, where was FEMA yesterday when that jet crash landed on the Hudson? Why didn't FEMA respond faster!

/

Because the NYPD, and FDNY don't need FEMA, they know how to handle a situation like that. The real villains were captured on video:


Terrorist honcos.

46 Kragar  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:37:55am

re: #38 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

That would be "EliteRepublicanGuard" one word. Get it right.

Thank you.

--MSM

They keep using that word "Elite". I do not think it means what they think it means.

47 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:37:57am

re: #37 karmic_inquisitor

No time pressure - it isn't like Obama is going to do anything aggressive.

Or did you mean January 20, 2013?

Can't waste a good minute of free empire building...

48 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:38:13am

re: #32 realwest

Well I don't know - remember how "great" the vaunted Iraqi Republican Guard was supposed to be?
Methinks we in the West are chary of calling anyone or any group "special" whereas those in Persian or Arab states seem to always have these vaunted groups of special warriors who turn out to be.........not so special at all!

Spot on! Yeah, the Iraqi Republican Guard lasted - what was it? - about 30 minutes?

49 JammieWearingFool  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:38:20am

Coulter is now beating up on Soros, Huffington and Kos.

Heh.

50 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:38:23am

re: #38 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret) Yes Sir LT, thankew for the correction!
LOL!

51 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:38:33am

re: #32 realwest

Well I don't know - remember how "great" the vaunted Iraqi Republican Guard was supposed to be?
Methinks we in the West are chary of calling anyone or any group "special" whereas those in Persian or Arab states seem to always have these vaunted groups of special warriors who turn out to be.........not so special at all!

The 10,000 Immortals comes to mind. Seem to recall that a few hundred Spartans cleaned their clocks......

52 jcm  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:38:40am

re: #21 subsailor68

Very interesting that these guys were trained by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. Might that be an indication that the IRG ain't all it's cracked up to be?

(One can only hope?)

Carnage and Culture Landmark Battles In the Rise of Western Power
Victor Davis HansonT

he Western way of war is so lethal precisely because it is so amoral shackled rarely by concerns of ritual, tradition, religion, or ethics, by anything other than military necessity." Ranging from Salamis in 480 B.C. to the Tet offensive in Vietnam, Hanson, a California State at Fresno classics professor, expands the scope of his The Western Way of War: Infantry Battle in Classical Greece, offering a provocative look at occidental aggression as illustrated by nine paradigmatic battles between Western and non-Western armies. Hanson sheds the overly romanticized view of battles as nationalist or ethnic honorifics and vividly portrays the deadly killing machines Western powers evolved for the destruction of non-Western opponents.
53 alegrias  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:39:29am

re: #38 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

That would be "EliteRepublicanGuard" one word. Get it right.

Thank you.

--MSM

* * *
Like the Hardy Heroic Hamas they also champion!

54 ThinkRight  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:39:32am

re: #49 JammieWearingFool

Coulter is now beating up on Soros, Huffington and Kos.

Heh.

Good friday huh ?
LOL

55 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:39:35am

re: #45 Dark_Falcon

Because the NYPD, and FDNY don't need FEMA, they know how to handle a situation like that. The real villains were captured on video:


[Video]

Terrorist honcos.

You mean honkco's

56 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:39:39am

re: #48 subsailor68

Spot on! Yeah, the Iraqi Republican Guard lasted - what was it? - about 30 minutes?

Same goes for the "Arab street."

57 jcm  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:39:52am

re: #38 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

That would be "EliteRepublicanGuard" one word. Get it right.

Thank you.

--MSM

EffeteRepublicanGuard

FIFY!

58 jwb7605  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:40:02am

What is this, some kind of replay to the lead-in to Iraq?
Everybody agreed about Iraq, intentions, and capabilites back then, too.

Problem was, only intentions were proven.
Those were largely suppressed upon discovery.

Which makes any action against Iran problematic.

59 alegrias  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:40:03am

re: #49 JammieWearingFool

Coulter is now beating up on Soros, Huffington and Kos.

Heh.

* * *
Bring it on!

60 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:40:04am

re: #36 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Thanks for that post! I especially liked this line:

One of them, a 52-year-old victim of a premature detonation...

(That must have been a real date killer.)

61 Tumulus11  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:40:23am

. Robert Morgenthau should grab Banca Intesa, Barclays, Credit Suisse, Deutsche Bank and the others firmly by the moneybags and squeeze 'til all the jihadis jump out.

62 Opinionated  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:40:40am

re: #56 karmic_inquisitor

Same goes for the "Arab street."

I always think of it as the Arab gutter.

63 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:40:45am
64 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:40:47am

re: #51 LGoPs

The 10,000 Immortals comes to mind. Seem to recall that a few hundred Spartans cleaned their clocks......

Errr... slowed them down for a couple of days, then turned into a grease-spot.

The real hero of that campaign as the Athenian Navy which kept the Persians at bay (literally). The Spartans just got the press.

65 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:40:47am

re: #49 JammieWearingFool

Coulter is now beating up on Soros, Huffington and Kos. Heh.

Er, where?

66 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:40:49am

re: #38 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

That would be "EliteRepublicanGuard" one word. Get it right.

Thank you.

--MSM

Don't forget vaunted........
/

67 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:40:50am

Specialized aluminum and titanium sheets for missiles? Just homegrown ones, not meant to do any harm eh? Let's just ignore Iran's hopes to develop medium and long range missiles with range to hit Europe and everywhere in between (1,200-1,800km).

Let's ignore that Iran continues spinning the centrifuges to build up a reserve of enriched uranium. It refuses to open the doors on its program, which is compartmentalized and underground so as to lessen the likelihood it would be destroyed in a single air raid as happened to Syrian facilities (Sept 6 raid) or Osirak in Iraq (1981). Iran has 6,000 centrifuges running, and many are the P2/IR2 variety, which are more advanced and more efficient at separating uranium into enriched form. Enrichment is just one step - weapons grade is just a function of time.

Iran has also benefitted from the AQ Khan network for plans for weapons, and the scientists there have had time to work on them.

The countdown clock is ticking, and Obama will be dealing with this regime before long. A nuclear Iran would hold the entire region hostage - not just Israel.

68 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:40:59am

re: #48 subsailor68

Spot on! Yeah, the Iraqi Republican Guard lasted - what was it? - about 30 minutes?

Assuming they even bothered to stand and fight I don't think they lasted a minute longer than that

69 bulwrk  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:41:09am

Super O will save the day.


///

70 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:41:10am

re: #60 subsailor68

Thanks for that post! I especially liked this line:

One of them, a 52-year-old victim of a premature detonation...

(That must have been a real date killer.)

Yeah, well, ya know, he just got so excited, and he hadn't had a lot of experience, and he forgot to think about baseball.

71 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:41:18am

re: #51 LGoPs

The 10,000 Immortals comes to mind. Seem to recall that a few hundred Spartans cleaned their clocks......

GET SOME!

72 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:41:18am

re: #48 subsailor68
Well all I do know - from an LGFer who was there - is that they launched a 200 tank attack on an advanced unit of some 16 M1A1's and at the end of the fight, the score was: US - one tank rendered inoperable; Iraqis: 200 tanks blown to pieces. Just priceless. Said the ammo trucks were running back and forth like crazy trying to keep up with the Abrams' tanks rate of fire!

73 opnion  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:41:24am

There is an irony that this story breaks while Eric Holder is on the brink of Senate confirmation to become Attorney General.
Among his malfeasance's was getting financier Marc Rich a pardon from Clinton. Rich helped Iran sell it's crude during the embargo, while they held our hostages.

74 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:41:51am

re: #52 jcm

Ouch! Would love to have a copy of that, but the link shows only two available - one new and one collectible.

75 Desert Dog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:41:58am

re: #21 subsailor68

Very interesting that these guys were trained by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. Might that be an indication that the IRG ain't all it's cracked up to be?

(One can only hope?)

The IRG are OA (Overrated Assholes). Just like the "Elite Republican Guard" of Saddam. They looked really "elite" after the US Army and Air Force smacked them down like bugs. They are good at hiding IED's and hiding behind women and children. The IRG are to be feared if you are an unarmed person living in Iran. I hope the day comes when the mighty Revolutionary Guards have to face the US Army or the IDF. Then the entire world shall all see what a bunch of losers they really are.

76 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:42:00am

re: #55 Walter L. Newton

You mean honkco's

Honkco's?

You mean drivers from Jersey?

77 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:42:06am

re: #57 jcm
ROFLMAO! Great one jcm!

78 Silhouette  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:42:23am

The whole world including our American Democrats knew Saddam was working towards the bomb. But now they all act like they've forgotten.

So we have two options: 1) Wait until they blow someone up, or 2) Take them out beforehand and forever be condemned for illegally attacking where there were no WMD.

I'll take #2. I'd rather be hated and alive that justified and dead.

79 Dainn  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:42:27am

I think everyone also agrees that nothing can be done about it.

(Wait, I don't agree.)

80 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:42:30am

re: #55 Walter L. Newton

You mean honkco's

Different spellings, same wild goose chase.

81 ThinkRight  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:42:35am

Coulter could take Obama / Biden out at the same time and not even break a sweat
LOL

82 alegrias  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:43:08am

re: #44 MandyManners

One of them, a 52-year-old victim of a premature detonation who had already done time in an Israeli jail, said, "Hamas took a gamble. We thought, at worst Israel will come and do something from the air - something superficial. They'll come in and go out. We never thought that we would reach the point where fear will swallow the heart and the feet will want to flee. You [Israel] are fighting like you fought in '48. What got into you all of a sudden?"

This is priceless.

* * *
"1948 was Great"

Has a nice ring to it.

83 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:43:12am

re: #45 Dark_Falcon

Because the NYPD, and FDNY don't need FEMA, they know how to handle a situation like that. The real villains were captured on video:



Terrorist honcos.

What am I missing? Why can't we buy goose in the store like we buy chickens and turkeys? I bet there are plenty of delicious recipes for goose!

84 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:43:37am

re: #21 subsailor68

Very interesting that these guys were trained by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. Might that be an indication that the IRG ain't all it's cracked up to be?

(One can only hope?)

They suck at photoshop.

85 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:43:43am

re: #52 jcm

Haven't read this book of Hanson's yet but I've read others. He should be National Security Advisor.

86 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:43:49am

re: #72 realwest

Well all I do know - from an LGFer who was there - is that they launched a 200 tank attack on an advanced unit of some 16 M1A1's and at the end of the fight, the score was: US - one tank rendered inoperable; Iraqis: 200 tanks blown to pieces. Just priceless. Said the ammo trucks were running back and forth like crazy trying to keep up with the Abrams' tanks rate of fire!

Battle of 38 Easting, IIRC. Might be something else, one company, maybe a platoon, tore the guts out of an Iraqi division in the dark...

87 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:43:52am

re: #60 subsailor68

Thanks for that post! I especially liked this line:

One of them, a 52-year-old victim of a premature detonation...

(That must have been a real date killer.)

Known to his friends as "Stumpy"

88 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:43:55am

re: #82 alegrias

* * *
"1948 was Great"

Has a nice ring to it.

Did you read the quote from the second captured terrorist? Just as telling.

89 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:44:32am

re: #38 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

That would be "EliteRepublicanGuard" one word. Get it right.

Thank you.

--MSM

The Elite Republican Guard is neither Elite, nor Republican. (Holy Roman Empire)

90 Desert Dog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:44:41am

re: #73 opnion

There is an irony that this story breaks while Eric Holder is on the brink of Senate confirmation to become Attorney General.
Among his malfeasance's was getting financier Marc Rich a pardon from Clinton. Rich helped Iran sell it's crude during the embargo, while they held our hostages.

Yes, but he gave heavily to the Clinton Comic Book and Porno Mag Parlor Presidential Library, so that makes up for all of that "traitor stuff", right?

91 Dainn  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:44:48am

The USA will take action against Iran once a nuke is exploded as a terrorist weapon somewhere in the world. Then we will all "unite" briefly and forget all the PC crap. We won't do a think, nor will we help those who will (Israel) until someone (probably Israel) gets attacked.

Sigh.

92 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:44:53am

re: #68 Leonidas Hoplite

It appears you are correct sir - given RW's post:
re: #72 realwest

BTW, RW, that actually brought a tear to my eye - one of pride, not sadness.

93 bulwrk  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:45:21am

re: #3 pegcity

So When Newyork or L.A is a smoking hole will people say why didn't we do anything to stop it?

democrats say its George Bushes fault?

94 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:45:29am

re: #74 subsailor68

Ouch! Would love to have a copy of that, but the link shows only two available - one new and one collectible.

Try alibris.com

95 JammieWearingFool  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:45:38am

re: #65 Walter L. Newton

Er, where?

On Rush's show.

96 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:45:56am

re: #83 Alouette

What am I missing? Why can't we buy goose in the store like we buy chickens and turkeys? I bet there are plenty of delicious recipes for goose!

I don't know. Geese used to be a common sight in farmyards.

97 legalpad  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:46:06am

re: #21 subsailor68

Very interesting that these guys were trained by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard. Might that be an indication that the IRG ain't all it's cracked up to be?

(One can only hope?)

Well beyond hope. They have no chance. It is the Media who hopes - for them, and tries to bluff in their behalf. I think we can view the Israelis as capable as the U.S. military, just smaller, therefore - for your consideration.

98 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:46:32am

re: #93 bulwrk

democrats say its George Bushes fault?

Hows about that? Preemptive buck-passing and blame-shifting. Now THAT'S Progressive!

99 Desert Dog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:46:38am

re: #87 Alouette

Known to his friends as "Stumpy"

either that or "Lefty"

100 opnion  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:46:50am

re: #90 Desert Dog

Yes, but he gave heavily to the Clinton Comic Book and Porno Mag Parlor Presidential Library, so that makes up for all of that "traitor stuff", right?

Well, I suppose that it does balance the scales.

101 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:46:59am

re: #67 lawhawk

Specialized aluminum and titanium sheets for missiles? Just homegrown ones, not meant to do any harm eh? Let's just ignore Iran's hopes to develop medium and long range missiles with range to hit Europe and everywhere in between (1,200-1,800km)...

That's is why you don't hear much out of Western Europe, because they have become so infiltrated with radical Muslims, that any "peep" out of them causes massive upheavals in day to day business. (IE: car cooking parties).

When we see British cops, a gaggle of cops, RUNNING away from Muslim protestors while the protestors taunt them, then you know that country is not in any position to put down any internal unrest.

So, the die is cast. Anyone who wants to stop Iran is going to have to go at it alone, with maybe only token support from any other Western country.

Now, with a little help from our Eastern European friends...

102 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:47:40am

re: #78 Silhouette

The whole world including our American Democrats knew Saddam was working towards the bomb. But now they all act like they've forgotten.

So we have two options: 1) Wait until they blow someone up, or 2) Take them out beforehand and forever be condemned for illegally attacking where there were no WMD.

I'll take #2. I'd rather be hated and alive that justified and dead.

I agree with you 100% but the treasonous actions of the Democrats precludes a pre-emptive strike/war ever again. At least as long as they are in power.

103 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:48:35am
104 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:48:45am

re: #94 Leonidas Hoplite

Phew. Thanks, there appear to be quite a few available there - at reasonable prices.

105 jorline  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:48:48am

Iran's delivering an congratulatory Yellow Cake to Mr, Obama in celebration of his Inauguration

106 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:48:49am

re: #101 Walter L. Newton

That's is why you don't hear much out of Western Europe, because they have become so infiltrated with radical Muslims, that any "peep" out of them causes massive upheavals in day to day business. (IE: car cooking parties).

FIFY

107 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:49:02am
108 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:49:15am

re: #72 realwest

Well all I do know - from an LGFer who was there - is that they launched a 200 tank attack on an advanced unit of some 16 M1A1's and at the end of the fight, the score was: US - one tank rendered inoperable; Iraqis: 200 tanks blown to pieces. Just priceless. Said the ammo trucks were running back and forth like crazy trying to keep up with the Abrams' tanks rate of fire!


Wow.

109 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:49:26am

re: #75 Desert Dog
Indeed, see my #72 above!

110 Silhouette  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:49:56am

re: #85 Leonidas Hoplite

Haven't read this book of Hanson's yet but I've read others. He should be National Security Advisor.

But then first thing you know, we'd be attacking Syracuse, and no one would be quite sure why, but it seemed so clear when the NSA explained it.

111 WriterMom  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:50:39am

It's 1948 again, b*tches.

112 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:51:07am

re: #86 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret) Don't know how many tanks per Tank Plt or Company, but he was sure there were 16 of 'em!

113 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:51:17am
114 WriterMom  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:51:20am

re: #60 subsailor68

Premature Splodeytation!

115 Opinionated  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:51:30am

Are the Iranians throwing an Inaugural Ball?

They should. If anyone should be celebrating, it should be the Mullahs and Ahmadinejad.

116 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:51:42am

re: #97 legalpad

Well beyond hope. They have no chance. It is the Media who hopes - for them, and tries to bluff in their behalf. I think we can view the Israelis as capable as the U.S. military, just smaller, therefore - for your consideration.

Very interesting article. This line kind of made my day:

Why are we so deadly? Like European armies, American weaponry and special forces reflect the fruits of secular research, the bounty of capitalism, the discipline of civic militarism, and the spirit of egalitarianism sanctified by America's real concern, both spiritual and legal, for its soldiers in the field.

117 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:51:46am

re: #113 taxfreekiller

When the nuke goes off, where will the commie Democrats go to hide?


Crawford, Texas.

118 blindy  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:51:51am

Is it too late to vote for ElBaradei as the winner of this year's Fiskie?

119 Opinionated  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:52:11am

re: #111 WriterMom

It's 1948 again, b*tches.

I thought 1967 was a pretty good year.

120 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:52:27am

re: #91 Dainn
I hope you're right even in that scenario. Not all of us are so sure that CiC Obama would do that.

121 Rancher  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:52:33am

According to the left it's not fair that the US is the only superpower, Iran has just as much right to nukes as the US, and preemptive strikes for the defense against terror strikes is immoral and against international law. GITMO will be closed and vigorous interrogation methods will cease. NSA phone intercepts between terrorists and numbers in America will also be curtailed. America voted overwhelmingly for Obama and this mind set so one could say that when we get hit we had it coming. I'm sorry for that but New Mexico probably wont be hit so I'll survive. At least once we're hit law enforcement will take over and the perps will have their day in court.

122 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:52:59am

re: #111 WriterMom

It's 1948 again, b*tches.

You're beautiful when you talk tough.

123 jcm  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:53:01am

re: #74 subsailor68

Ouch! Would love to have a copy of that, but the link shows only two available - one new and one collectible.

Highly recommend reading. Paperback is available.

124 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:53:08am

re: #114 WriterMom

Premature Splodeytation!

LOL! Sure hope there's no treatment for that!

125 opnion  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:53:26am

re: #107 Iron Fist

That motherfucker just gets better and better the closer we look at him. Soon it will come out that he tortures puppies and rapes children, and the Democrats in the Senate will smile and rubber-stamp him while the Republicans cower in the corner. This is going to be a long four years.

Holder is a very sleazy dude. The MSM just loves the guy though, so they paper over Marc Rich & the FALN terrorists.
Holder actually said that he will be a 'better" Attorney General becuse of his "mistake" with Marc Rich.

126 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:53:27am

re: #112 realwest

Don't know how many tanks per Tank Plt or Company, but he was sure there were 16 of 'em!

Back in the day (M60A3), a platoon had 5... if that still holds, then a company would have 15 (three platoons) plus one for the CO = 16 tanks at full strength.

127 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:53:32am

re: #87 Alouette

Known to his friends as "Stumpy"

His friends Slashful, Gimpy, Slappy, Sleezy, Dopey and DOA.

128 lifeofthemind  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:53:44am

The Democrats already have a plan on how to respond to a nuclear attack by Iran. They intend to form a committee. Then pin the blame on Bush.
Professional outfit, crack team of screenwriters are getting right on it.

129 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:54:19am

re: #126 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Back in the day (M60A3), a platoon had 5... if that still holds, then a company would have 15 (three platoons) plus one for the CO = 16 tanks at full strength.


What rank officer would be in command?

130 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:54:26am

re: #92 subsailor68
Yeah, I got a lump in my throat talking to him about it. Apparently much to our surprise - the Iraqi tanks opened fire when the Abram's were at least 600 meters outside of the max effective range of the IRG Tank Guns! He said "I just kept telling my gunner, keep on killing 'em" and he did!

131 Silhouette  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:54:29am

Premature explosion? I rather think that it exploded at just the right time.

132 WriterMom  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:54:53am

re: #119 Opinionated

I used to as well. The victory was excellent (Six Days, Bitch), however-1967 also was a disaster for Israel and the Jewish people. Instead of delivering finalizing the "Palestinian" issue-Israel absorbed a metasticizing menace bent on its destruction. Plus-the collosal disaster of Moshe Dayan, enabling Muslim control of the Temple Mount area and autonomy through the Waqf set the stage for endless battle.

1967 was a blessing and a curse for Israel.

133 legalpad  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:54:54am

re: #119 Opinionated

I thought 1967 was a pretty good year.

I'm sure it was. But 1948 was damn good.

134 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:54:58am

re: #129 Leonidas Hoplite

What rank officer would be in command?

O-3, Captain.

135 jcbunga  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:55:00am

WSJ: Iran's Manhattan Project Rushing Ahead

They shouldn't rush. You can put your eye out with one of those.

136 WriterMom  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:55:18am

re: #122 MandyManners

I'm just getting started!

137 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:55:22am

re: #129 Leonidas Hoplite

What rank officer would be in command?

Tank companies are led by captains.

138 opnion  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:55:34am

re: #113 taxfreekiller

When the nuke goes off, where will the commie Democrats go to hide?

They will all flee to Oak Park, IL to pile in with other Libs. Oak Park is a nuclear free zone, so it is like really safe!

139 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:55:44am

re: #108 Leonidas Hoplite
Exactly my reaction!

140 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:55:47am
141 notutopia  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:55:47am

re: #92 subsailor68
Here are cheaper versions of VDHanson's book
[Link: product.half.ebay.com...]

142 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:56:02am

re: #135 jcbunga

WSJ: Iran's Manhattan Project Rushing Ahead

They shouldn't rush. You can put your eye ion out with one of those.

fixed

143 jcm  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:56:02am

re: #115 Opinionated

Are the Iranians throwing an Inaugural Ball?

They should. If anyone should be celebrating, it should be the Mullahs and Ahmadinejad.

We have video........

I think not.

144 CommonCents  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:56:12am

"I don't care if Iran kills myself and everyone I know as long as it doesn't happen while I'm still in office."

--typical politician.

145 Wishing  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:56:16am

What is today's gaza-cam link?

146 dhg4  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:56:17am

re: #67 lawhawk

Specialized aluminum and titanium sheets for missiles? Just homegrown ones, not meant to do any harm eh? Let's just ignore Iran's hopes to develop medium and long range missiles with range to hit Europe and everywhere in between (1,200-1,800km).

Let's ignore that Iran continues spinning the centrifuges to build up a reserve of enriched uranium. It refuses to open the doors on its program, which is compartmentalized and underground so as to lessen the likelihood it would be destroyed in a single air raid as happened to Syrian facilities (Sept 6 raid) or Osirak in Iraq (1981). Iran has 6,000 centrifuges running, and many are the P2/IR2 variety, which are more advanced and more efficient at separating uranium into enriched form. Enrichment is just one step - weapons grade is just a function of time.

Iran has also benefitted from the AQ Khan network for plans for weapons, and the scientists there have had time to work on them.

The countdown clock is ticking, and Obama will be dealing with this regime before long. A nuclear Iran would hold the entire region hostage - not just Israel.

I heard Walid Shoebat on the radio the other day. He was asked point blank if he figured that Israel would be the first target of Iran. He said that he thought Saudi Arabia would be. Egypt may think the same thing too!

147 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:56:18am
148 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:56:37am

re: #125 opnion

Holder is a very sleazy dude. The MSM just loves the guy though, so they paper over Marc Rich & the FALN terrorists.
Holder actually said that he will be a 'better" Attorney General becuse of his "mistake" with Marc Rich.

Gag me. Holder's logic is something like:

"That little problem with that pesky decimal point will only make me a better NASA engineer. Sorry about missing the moon by seven hundred gazillion light years."

What a weasel.

149 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:57:17am

re: #107 Iron Fist

That motherfucker just gets better and better the closer we look at him. Soon it will come out that he tortures puppies and rapes children, and the Democrats in the Senate will smile and rubber-stamp him while the Republicans cower in the corner. This is going to be a long four years.

I heard a snippet of that bastard Patrick Leahy questioning Holder about waterboarding and I almost drove off the road. He was making the point that we should never use extraordinary techniques like that against civilized countries. These bastards don't understand that using this type of technique has never been intended against soldiers of opposing nations. It is to be used against those barbarians who refuse to align with and comport themselves with civilized standards of warfare.
These bastards are willing to sacrifice untold numbers of us on the altar of their sanctimonious sensitivities. My question is...if we get hit again, can we come after the bastards that are writing these checks that they can't cash.......

150 midwestgak  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:57:17am

re: #138 opnion

They will all flee to Oak Park, IL to pile in with other Libs. Oak Park is a nuclear free zone, so it is like really safe!

It is a No Parking Free Zone as well.

151 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:57:21am

re: #136 WriterMom

I'm just getting started!

Do you know if there was any seething in the mosques across the world today?

152 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:58:00am
153 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:58:04am
154 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:58:10am

re: #130 realwest

Ya know, when you posted that, it reminded me of George C. Scott standing on the bluff in N. Africa yelling "Rommel you magnificent bastard! I read your book!"

155 Desert Dog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:58:24am

re: #143 jcm

We have video........

I think not.

That looks just a little too staged for my tastes. I prefer the spontaneity of a good old fashioned car swarm.

156 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:58:38am

re: #145 Wishing

What is today's gaza-cam link?

I've had nothing but trouble.

157 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:58:56am

re: #141 notutopia

Here are cheaper versions of VDHanson's book
[Link: product.half.ebay.com...]

Cool! Thanks very much.

158 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:59:02am

re: #154 subsailor68

Ya know, when you posted that, it reminded me of George C. Scott standing on the bluff in N. Africa yelling "Rommel you magnificent bastard! I read your book!"

Hold 'em by the nose and kick 'em in the ass...

159 WriterMom  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:59:13am

re: #151 MandyManners

Why would there not be seething?

160 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:59:15am

re: #154 subsailor68
Ha! That's exactly what I thought when he told me!

161 Silhouette  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:59:23am

re: #146 dhg4

...he figured that Israel would be the first target of Iran. He said that he thought Saudi Arabia would be. Egypt may think the same thing too!

From the above story, the UAE thinks it may be a target, too.

Or at least, clearly the UAE think it is in their best interest to NOT have a nuclear Iran.

162 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:59:23am

re: #156 MandyManners

I've had nothing but trouble.

...and trouble's plenty for me.

163 jcm  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:59:34am

re: #130 realwest

Yeah, I got a lump in my throat talking to him about it. Apparently much to our surprise - the Iraqi tanks opened fire when the Abram's were at least 600 meters outside of the max effective range of the IRG Tank Guns! He said "I just kept telling my gunner, keep on killing 'em" and he did!

My former BIL was a Cav. Scout in GWI. They caught a bunch of IRG tanks heading north, they were road bound because they could navigate out in the desert. It was raining and the smoke from the oil well fires was really thick. The Iraqis IR sights were not as effective as ours. Our guys lined up on a ridge and started at the rear IRG tank, and plinked 'em all. He said is was easier than the range at Ft. Knox.

164 Opinionated  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:59:56am

re: #143 jcm

I just don't understand these people. We gift them with Obama and they don't appreciate what we've given them.

Unfortunately, they soon may.

165 realwest  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:00:18am

Well y'all gotta go eat some lunch. Sure hope you all have a good day and that I get the chance to see you all down the road!

166 x-wing  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:00:37am

re: #126 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Back in the day (M60A3), a platoon had 5... if that still holds, then a company would have 15 (three platoons) plus one for the CO = 16 tanks at full strength.

With the M1 I think they went to 4 per PLT. IIRC.

167 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:00:44am

re: #164 Opinionated

I just don't understand these people. We gift them with Obama and they don't appreciate what we've given them.

Unfortunately, they soon may.

I do. And it causes me to lose sleep at night and fear for my children.

168 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:00:51am

re: #165 realwest

Have a great weekend! See ya soon.

169 opnion  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:00:53am

re: #148 subsailor68

Gag me. Holder's logic is something like:

"That little problem with that pesky decimal point will only make me a better NASA engineer. Sorry about missing the moon by seven hundred gazillion light years."

What a weasel.


Well, his lolgic is good enough for the Senate Democrats & the Republicans will not oppose a black cabinet pick.

170 CommonCents  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:01:06am

re: #151 MandyManners

Do you know if there was any seething in the mosques across the world today?

Is that a rhetorical question?

171 x-wing  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:01:16am

re: #129 Leonidas Hoplite

What rank officer would be in command?

Capt.

172 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:01:28am

re: #166 x-wing

With the M1 I think they went to 4 per PLT. IIRC.

Still three platoons per CO?

173 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:01:28am

re: #163 jcm

My former BIL was a Cav. Scout in GWI. They caught a bunch of IRG...

It would be nice if some of the military minded Lizards here would spell out some of these acronyms (gee, I spelled that right the first time) for us.

174 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:01:33am

re: #169 opnion

Well, his lolgic is good enough for the Senate Democrats & the Republicans will not oppose a black cabinet pick.

Sigh. You're right.

175 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:01:33am

re: #159 WriterMom

Why would there not be seething?

Well, I was thinking of extra-spayshul seething. Were the mosques in Gaza full?

176 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:01:48am

re: #151 MandyManners

Do you know if there was any seething in the mosques across the world today?

It's open-seethe Friday!

177 Kragar  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:01:53am

re: #166 x-wing

With the M1 I think they went to 4 per PLT. IIRC.

Marines were using 3 tank platoons with 1 extra for a Company CO for 10 per company IIRC.

178 Silhouette  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:02:09am

I would really like to know which

"major Western banks illegally handled funds for Iran and deliberately hid Iranian transactions routed through the U.S."

I hope none of these banks are getting bailout monies.

179 x-wing  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:02:20am

re: #156 MandyManners

I've had nothing but trouble.

Ditto here.

180 notutopia  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:02:28am

re: #157 subsailor68

Cool! Thanks very much.

: ) Most welcome.

181 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:02:28am

re: #162 Walter L. Newton

Break a leg this weekend!

182 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:02:29am

re: #166 x-wing

With the M1 I think they went to 4 per PLT. IIRC.

You're correct 3 platoons x 4 tanks each. In addition they have one for the CO and one for the XO. Total is 14 per company

183 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:03:09am

re: #170 CommonCents

Is that a rhetorical question?

See my No. 175.

184 CommonCents  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:03:11am

re: #178 Silhouette

I would really like to know which


I hope none of these banks are getting bailout monies.

It would be nice if they published the names of Citibank et al.

185 Silhouette  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:03:16am

re: #148 subsailor68

"That little problem with that pesky decimal point will only make me a better NASA engineer. Sorry about missing the moon by seven hundred gazillion light years."

That's how the promote the people at my office, it seems. Rise to the level of your incompetence.

186 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:03:20am
187 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:03:36am

re: #146 dhg4

I heard Walid Shoebat on the radio the other day. He was asked point blank if he figured that Israel would be the first target of Iran. He said that he thought Saudi Arabia would be. Egypt may think the same thing too!

That's a point I've been making for some time. Iran's nuclear program isn't merely aimed at the US or Israel.

It's aimed at the Sunni nations of the Middle East. It's setting up for a Sunni-Shi'a showdown, and if Iran gets the bomb first, it doesn't matter that Sunnis outnumber Shi'a 10-1. It's a plan within a plan, and Iran can threaten the House of Saud just as surely as it can Tel Aviv.

188 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:03:40am

re: #182 LGoPs

You're correct 3 platoons x 4 tanks each. In addition they have one for the CO and one for the XO. Total is 14 per company

The XO gets a tank? Oh, for the day when the bastard had the flit around the battlefield in a jeep. :-)

189 CommonCents  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:03:44am

re: #185 Silhouette

That's how the promote the people at my office, it seems. Rise to the level of your incompetence.

It's the same all over.

190 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:03:49am

re: #172 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Still three platoons per CO?

Yes, but I think they went to 4 companies per battalion.

191 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:04:25am

re: #181 MandyManners

Break a leg this weekend!

Whose?

Yes, we had a slow opening weekend last week, but the reviews that came out this past week were all VERY positive, so we are hoping the run picks up by our third weekend (next weekend).

People are certainly cutting back a bit on entertainment such as live theatre, which of course doesn't bode well for my job.

But, we'll see.

192 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:04:29am

re: #185 Silhouette

That's how the promote the people at my office, it seems. Rise to the level of your incompetence.

Oh yeah, I've worked in a couple of those myself over the years. Give my best to Dilbert!

:-)

193 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:04:45am

re: #176 Alouette

It's open-seethe Friday!

Don't you mean "open-seethin'"?

194 Kragar  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:04:47am

I was wrong, 4 tanks per platoon for USMC as well.

195 jcbunga  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:04:50am

Iran's just fission for attention.

196 CommonCents  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:04:50am

re: #187 lawhawk

That's a point I've been making for some time. Iran's nuclear program isn't merely aimed at the US or Israel.

It's aimed at the Sunni nations of the Middle East. It's setting up for a Sunni-Shi'a showdown, and if Iran gets the bomb first, it doesn't matter that Sunnis outnumber Shi'a 10-1. It's a plan within a plan, and Iran can threaten the House of Saud just as surely as it can Tel Aviv.

They've got the masses of Sunni Pakistan right next door with nukes. They just can't figure out how to launch them yet because the manual is written in Korean.

197 Opinionated  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:05:01am

Kadima and Labor rushing to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Cabinet to decide on unilateral ceasefire Saturday evening

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

"Unilateral ceasefire". Crazy.

198 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:05:45am

re: #188 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

The XO gets a tank? Oh, for the day when the bastard had the flit around the battlefield in a jeep. :-)

Yeah. I was in Bradley's back in my day and we started with 3 platoons x 4 Brads each for 12. Then the CO had a Brad for 13. But my XO used a 113. Eventually they gave the XO a Brad as well so the total became 14 per company.

199 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:05:46am

re: #193 MandyManners

Don't you mean "open-seethin'"?

That's dedicated to the IDF.

200 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:05:47am

re: #196 CommonCents

They've got the masses of Sunni Pakistan right next door with nukes. They just can't figure out how to launch them yet because the manual is written in Korean.

Wonder where tech support calls for them are routed?

201 splat  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:05:53am

Oh, everyone should just deal with this problem as the UN has.

1. Wring hands and say how terrible it is
2. Place your head FIRMLY in the sand
3. Place fingers FIRMLY in your ears
4. Shout IT'S THE JOOOOOOOZ FAULT

( ok, #4 is hard to do with your head in the sand )

Possible future steps are
5. Wait for Iran to blow something up and repeat step #1

202 Kragar  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:06:03am

re: #190 LGoPs

Yes, but I think they went to 4 companies per battalion.

Plus a support company of course.

203 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:06:12am
204 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:06:18am

re: #191 Walter L. Newton

Whose?

Yes, we had a slow opening weekend last week, but the reviews that came out this past week were all VERY positive, so we are hoping the run picks up by our third weekend (next weekend).

People are certainly cutting back a bit on entertainment such as live theatre, which of course doesn't bode well for my job.

But, we'll see.

People need relief from the work-a-day worries.

205 x-wing  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:06:22am

re: #172 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Still three platoons per CO?

Not sure, probably. Been out for over 20years, but I think with the M1 they were able to downsize the amount. Or maybe they just dropped brigades.

Now I need help. Sorry about that.

206 notutopia  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:06:28am

re: #193 MandyManners

Don't you mean "open-seethin'"?


Looks like " open season" !

207 Silhouette  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:06:37am

re: #197 Opinionated

Kadima and Labor rushing to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Cabinet to decide on unilateral ceasefire Saturday evening

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

"Unilateral ceasefire". Crazy.

Aren't the rockets still landing in southern Israel?

How can they think of stopping? /rhet

208 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:06:46am

re: #187 lawhawk

That's a point I've been making for some time. Iran's nuclear program isn't merely aimed at the US or Israel.

It's aimed at the Sunni nations of the Middle East. It's setting up for a Sunni-Shi'a showdown, and if Iran gets the bomb first, it doesn't matter that Sunnis outnumber Shi'a 10-1. It's a plan within a plan, and Iran can threaten the House of Saud just as surely as it can Tel Aviv.

Why is it that SA doesn't have a nuke (or maybe they do?). I mean, these guys have enough money to by just about anything they want, they've purchased our soul to run their oil industry.

Why don't they have a bought and in place nuclear program sitting in one of those sand traps over there.

Makes me wonder.

209 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:06:55am

re: #195 jcbunga

Iran's just fission for attention.

Isotope it doesn't work.

210 CommonCents  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:07:02am

re: #200 Guanxi88

Wonder where tech support calls for them are routed?

sweet. If their luck is like ours, they would have to call India.

211 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:07:06am

re: #195 jcbunga

Iran's just fission for attention.

Let's hope they'll be spinning in their graves soon.

212 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:08:04am

re: #210 CommonCents

sweet. If their luck is like ours, they would have to call India.

Yeah, but, the world being so whacky as it is, I imagine Kansas City, or Topeka. There's just a certain symmetry to the idea.

213 x-wing  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:08:23am

re: #182 LGoPs

You're correct 3 platoons x 4 tanks each. In addition they have one for the CO and one for the XO. Total is 14 per company

Thank you. I was starting to cofuse myself ;>}

214 lawhawk  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:08:25am

re: #197 Opinionated

Kadima and Labor rushing to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Cabinet to decide on unilateral ceasefire Saturday evening

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

"Unilateral ceasefire". Crazy.


Unilateral ceasefire; just like the unilateral disengagement in Gaza, which led to Hamas unilaterally firing on Israel for years without much of an Israeli response.

Israel needs unilateral victory - its own. Each of those 3-hour ceasefires has only extended the conflict needlessly and the world couldn't care less how much aid Israel let into Gaza. They're still going to think Israel is evil. Victory is the quickest path to a ceasefire.

215 Last Mohican  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:08:29am

re: #203 ploome hineni

So much for "Turkey, Israel's moderate Muslim friend in the Middle East."

216 Opinionated  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:08:37am

re: #207 Silhouette

Aren't the rockets still landing in southern Israel?

How can they think of stopping? /rhet

Because they're the same retards who withdrew from Gaza in the first place?

217 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:09:01am

re: #191 Walter L. Newton

Whose?

Yes, we had a slow opening weekend last week, but the reviews that came out this past week were all VERY positive, so we are hoping the run picks up by our third weekend (next weekend).

People are certainly cutting back a bit on entertainment such as live theatre, which of course doesn't bode well for my job.

But, we'll see.

Hang in there, Walter. There's nothing better than live theatre (and I've had the wonderful experience of playing in the pit for numerous shows here in the Hill Country).

Don't ever give up. What ya do is very important - for now and for posterity.

218 saberry0530  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:09:47am

re: #202 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Plus a support company of course.

Back in the day (80's and the 90's), USMC also had the anti tank platoon attached to the tank battalion 48 Hummvees with Tow II missile systems.

219 Desert Dog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:09:59am

re: #208 Walter L. Newton

Once Iran gets one (not "if" they get one), the gulf states will have to respond in kind. It will start a nuclear arms race in the Arab world. I think the Saudis are reluctant to get one as they do not really need one right now. They "have" the USA, afterall. But, if Iran get a nuke and then starts bossing everyone around in that part of the world, make no mistake the Saudis will get one of their own as well.

220 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:10:07am

re: #156 MandyManners

I've had nothing but trouble.

Same with me. I need my Gazacam fix :P

221 Opinionated  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:10:09am

re: #214 lawhawk

In a month the Israeli voters go to the polls and announce whether they are as insane as Kadima and Labor.

222 Wishing  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:10:17am

Thanks Mandy-

Does anyone have a gaza-cam link, please?

223 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:10:21am

An interesting Paliwood production....
Embedded With The Gaza Medics.

There's also an interview with the family of one of the terrorists killed while firing from the UN school.

224 x-wing  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:10:41am

re: #188 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

The XO gets a tank? Oh, for the day when the bastard had the flit around the battlefield in a jeep. :-)

When I was in the XO's tank hand the mine clearing blade on it. M60A3's

225 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:11:01am

re: #186 buzzsawmonkey

A+, Buzzsawmonkey! Their ought to do an SNL musical episode consisting entirely of your songs. THey are that good!

226 Wishing  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:11:36am

re: #203 ploome hineni

meanwhile

The best thing Israel could do is to be banished by the UN, only surpassed if the US is also asked to depart.
I would throw a party!

227 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:11:44am

re: #221 Opinionated

In a month the Israeli voters go to the polls and announce whether they are as insane as Kadima and Labor. ready for HOPENCHANGE.

No charge.

228 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:11:52am

Got out my 1987 copy of FM101-10 looking for the TO&E of an M1 company.

Didn't go down that far... oh well.

229 CommonCents  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:11:53am

re: #214 lawhawk

Unilateral ceasefire; just like the unilateral disengagement in Gaza, which led to Hamas unilaterally firing on Israel for years without much of an Israeli response.

Israel needs unilateral victory - its own. Each of those 3-hour ceasefires has only extended the conflict needlessly and the world couldn't care less how much aid Israel let into Gaza. They're still going to think Israel is evil. Victory is the quickest path to a ceasefire.

Not everyone is blind to the way Israel has handled Gaza. Check this out in Italy...

230 experiencedtraveller  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:11:56am

re: #163 jcm

My former BIL was a Cav. Scout in GWI. They caught a bunch of IRG tanks heading north, they were road bound because they could navigate out in the desert. It was raining and the smoke from the oil well fires was really thick. The Iraqis IR sights were not as effective as ours. Our guys lined up on a ridge and started at the rear IRG tank, and plinked 'em all. He said is was easier than the range at Ft. Knox.


I cleaned up a mess that you describe maybe the same one. Highway of death also. Biggest turkey shoot since the Marianas.

231 Desert Dog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:12:31am

re: #229 CommonCents

Not everyone is blind to the way Israel has handled Gaza. Check this out in Italy...

Momma Mia!

232 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:12:32am

re: #217 subsailor68

Hang in there, Walter. There's nothing better than live theatre (and I've had the wonderful experience of playing in the pit for numerous shows here in the Hill Country).

Don't ever give up. What ya do is very important - for now and for posterity.

But this is not like the 30's, when entertainment actually did well during the depression. Then, they had less choices.

Now, for one dollar, you go to McDonalds, pick up a one-off DVD, for another 19 dollars pick up enough calories, and you go home, sit down, and have an evening of a surround-sound, widescreen adventure.

Our tickets are 20 dollars each (very reasonable price), and you don't get food or a drink.

Big difference.

233 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:12:39am

re: #226 Wishing

The best thing Israel could do is to be banished by the UN, only surpassed if the US is also asked to depart.
I would throw a party!

I would prefer that we just walk out on them without being asked. And then kick them out of NY.

234 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:12:40am
235 maddogg  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:12:57am

I have to wonder, if someone (and I'm not saying I am advocating this) were to drop a deep penetrating high altitude precision guided tactical nuke on a specific underground Iranian nuclear facility, could it be passed off as a work accident?

236 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:13:09am

re: #224 x-wing

When I was in the XO's tank hand the mine clearing blade on it. M60A3's

Nice. He can be more useful than just dragging up beans and bullets that way.

237 CommonCents  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:13:15am

re: #221 Opinionated

In a month the Israeli voters go to the polls and announce whether they are as insane as Kadima and Labor.

It would be better if they held their unilateral cease-fire vote for 3 weeks from now. Then the election would be a direct result of that decision. I saw somewhere that >90% support the operation.

238 Wishing  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:13:28am

re: #233 Ford_Prefect

I would prefer that we just walk out on them without being asked. And then kick them out of NY.

Here, here!

239 splat  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:13:35am

re: #187 lawhawk

That's a point I've been making for some time. Iran's nuclear program isn't merely aimed at the US or Israel.
It's aimed at the Sunni nations of the Middle East.

Well the Persians did have a vast empire through the whole region in antiquity ! Perhaps they want it all back, the Turks better worry too.

240 jcm  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:13:35am

re: #155 Desert Dog

That looks just a little too staged for my tastes. I prefer the spontaneity of a good old fashioned car swarm.

Iran doesn't have spontaneous protests, it's all staged and many times the crowd is paid.

241 Silhouette  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:13:38am

re: #216 Opinionated

Because they're the same retards who withdrew from Gaza in the first place?

"Giving concessions to them has only failed the last 439,234 times. Maybe THIS time it will work!"

There is optimism and then there is insanity.

242 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:14:00am

re: #220 commadore183

Same with me. I need my Gazacam fix :P

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's missing the rooster!

243 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:14:21am

re: #238 Wishing

Here, here!

Where? Where?

244 Kragar  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:14:36am

re: #218 saberry0530

Back in the day (80's and the 90's), USMC also had the anti tank platoon attached to the tank battalion 48 Hummvees with Tow II missile systems.

They were part of the weapons batallions assigned to regiments as well. Combined Anti-Armor Team. Would be 4 hummvees, 2 with M-2 or Mk19s, 2 with TOWs and usually an infantry squad split amongst them for support. The SOP was for the machine guns to engage and force the armor to button up and then the TOWs could get the easy shots.

245 Ojoe  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:15:00am

"You cannot avoid war. You can only put it off to the advantage of your opponent."

—Niccolo Machiavelli.


"In my opinion you should never give your opponent a choice."

— my youngest, age 14.

246 Peacekeeper  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:15:10am

re: #242 MandyManners

I'm glad I'm not the only one who's missing the rooster!

You're a rooster booster?

247 Silhouette  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:15:20am

re: #243 Ford_Prefect

Where? Where?

There, there.

248 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:15:32am

re: #219 Desert Dog

Once Iran gets one (not "if" they get one), the gulf states will have to respond in kind. It will start a nuclear arms race in the Arab world. I think the Saudis are reluctant to get one as they do not really need one right now. They "have" the USA, afterall. But, if Iran get a nuke and then starts bossing everyone around in that part of the world, make no mistake the Saudis will get one of their own as well.

The Saudis sheiks don't trust their own people to not steal the nukes and threaten the sheiks with it.

249 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:15:33am

re: #202 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Plus a support company of course.

Yes, but consolidated under HHC (Headquarters and Headquarters Company).

250 jcm  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:15:59am

re: #173 Walter L. Newton

It would be nice if some of the military minded Lizards here would spell out some of these acronyms (gee, I spelled that right the first time) for us.

Brother In Law. BIL.

Calvary Scout, the point end of the point end. Remember the Big Arrow going around the left side of and swinging to the right in GWI? My BIL was the tip of that arrow. Scouting the way.

IRG, Iraq Republican Guard.

251 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:16:09am

re: #246 Peacekeeper

You're a rooster booster?

I'm a rooster booster!

Free the Gaza Rooster!

252 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:16:20am

re: #215 Last Mohican

So much for "Turkey, Israel's moderate Muslim friend in the Middle East."

Turkey's departure from moderation has been building for a long time. At base it comes down to numbers: The harder-line Muslims simply have more children than the moderates. Over time, this population growth imbalance has shifted Turkey in an Islamist direction.

253 midwestgak  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:16:24am

re: #197 Opinionated

Kadima and Labor rushing to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Cabinet to decide on unilateral ceasefire Saturday evening

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

"Unilateral ceasefire". Crazy.

hummmm. Ceasefire. Ya, let's try that.///

254 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:16:26am

Hamas brags about firing rockets near civilian buildings.....

255 Spiritualized  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:16:52am
U.S. allies Israel and Saudi Arabia

Come again?

Only one of those is an ally.

256 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:17:13am

re: #246 Peacekeeper

You're a rooster booster?

RAH! RAH!

257 Kragar  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:17:28am

re: #249 LGoPs

Yes, but consolidated under HHC (Headquarters and Headquarters Company).

Yes, but they would all fall under Batallion Command.

258 jorline  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:17:31am

Chinese Mom Who Had Son Strangled Sentenced to Death

A court in central China has sentenced a woman to death for hiring someone to strangle her 9-year-old son so she could have another child with her new husband without violating population laws, a court official and reports said Friday.

The children of China pray their mothers never get remarried.

259 Peacekeeper  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:17:33am

re: #256 MandyManners

RAH! RAH!

don't go off half cocked.

260 Spenser (with an S)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:17:48am

OT- Has anyone read Clive Cussler's book Plague Ship? I'm reading it now and I hope it's going where I think it's going re; the bad guys. There's a group that's kind of a Scientology meets Margaret Sanger (Planned Parenthood founder) and it looks like they're the bad guys. True?

261 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:17:59am

re: #251 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

I'm a rooster booster!

Free the Gaza Rooster!

FREE THE GAZA ROOSTER!

262 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:18:00am

re: #232 Walter L. Newton

I know what you're saying. Sadly, it's all true.

(And gotta agree, $20 is very reasonable.)

I wish more parents would start their kids in theatre as early as possible. My wife got into it around age six, and ended up majoring in theater at Stephens.

(Of course, there were far fewer plays back then. - oops, don't tell her I said that.)

263 Digital Display  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:18:00am

re: #251 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

I'm a rooster booster!

Free the Gaza Rooster!

Hey Lt. ! I just rented tropic thunder...looks like a good movie..
Hope today finds you well

264 Wishing  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:18:19am

re: #243 Ford_Prefect

Where? Where?

NY, NY !

265 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:18:21am

re: #223 Killgore Trout

An interesting Paliwood production....
Embedded With The Gaza Medics.

There's also an interview with the family of one of the terrorists killed while firing from the UN school.

Israeli TV spoofs the BBC

266 Dianna  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:18:23am

Woot!

One of the contributors to this article is Siobhan Gorman! Woot!

I danced at her wedding!

Yay, Siobhan!

267 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:18:29am

re: #256 MandyManners

RAH! RAH!

Watch out... Mandy's got her pom-pom's out!

Give me an R... etc. etc.

268 Opinionated  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:18:30am

re: #241 Silhouette

Maybe THIS time it will work!"

Well this time we will have Obama and his magic wand. At least I think it's a wand.

269 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:18:33am

re: #245 Ojoe

"You cannot avoid war. You can only put it off to the advantage of your opponent."

—Niccolo Machiavelli.

"In my opinion you should never give your opponent a choice."

— my youngest, age 14.

Your child has wisodm beyond his (her?) years. You have done well.

270 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:18:33am

re: #259 Peacekeeper

don't go off half cocked.

Nyah, nyah. You can't ruffle my feathers!

271 Maximu§  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:19:08am

We have (5) Carrier battlegroups floating around the Persian Gulf, billion dollar missile submarines cruising the depths, armed bombers sitting on the tarmac and trained pilots waiting for orders and Iran is laughing at us.

272 AuntAcid  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:19:17am

I'm thinking that early on 01/20/09 would be a good time for the IDF to give Iran a licking that stops their ticking.

273 Broomer  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:19:34am

re: #186 buzzsawmonkey

re-posted from the bottom of the now-dead thread next door:

The Battle of Gaza Strip
--with apologies to "The Battle of New Orleans"

Copyrighted? I want to post it on Facebook.

274 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:19:36am

re: #260 Spenser (with an S)

OT- Has anyone read Clive Cussler's book Plague Ship? I'm reading it now and I hope it's going where I think it's going re; the bad guys. There's a group that's kind of a Scientology meets Margaret Sanger (Planned Parenthood founder) and it looks like they're the bad guys. True?

Sounds like James Rollins book The Judas Strain.

275 Peacekeeper  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:19:40am

re: #270 MandyManners

Nyah, nyah. You can't ruffle my feathers!

I chickened out.

276 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:19:50am

re: #263 HoosierHoops

Hey Lt. ! I just rented tropic thunder...looks like a good movie..
Hope today finds you well

Yeah, far better than I would have thought. Hollywood poking fun at itself. I was very pleasantly surprised.

All is well here, but damn cold.

277 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:20:07am

This is cute. Hamas fighter does interview holding an RPG with children behind him.....

278 Desert Dog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:20:11am

re: #235 maddogg

I have to wonder, if someone (and I'm not saying I am advocating this) were to drop a deep penetrating high altitude precision guided tactical nuke on a specific underground Iranian nuclear facility, could it be passed off as a work accident?

Nuclear Bunker Buster

The problem with using this type of weapon is it leaves tell-tale evidence behind. The world would find out quickly the "accident" was not so accidental. Plus, the Iranians have facilities all over the place and we are not even certain what is what or where it is even is. To take out the nukes program, you almost have to take out the entire echelon of leadership. Other wise, we will have to continually bomb all the known sites with the best earth penetrating weapons we have. It would not be one bomb, it would be thousands of them.

279 Last Mohican  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:20:24am

re: #187 lawhawk

It does seem that, besides the U.S. and Israel, the Arabs are also very afraid of Iran's obvious nuclear ambitions as well. It's amazing to see how virtually all involved parties have such a huge stake in preventing Iran from building a nuclear bomb (except for Russia, of course, who pretty much appears to be selling them the parts). And yet absolutely nothing whatsoever is going to be done about it.

How can so many countries be unanimous in their stance on such an important issue, and yet also so unanimous in their steadfast refusal to take any action?

My guess is that everyone is hoping and assuming that Israel will take care of the problem by preemptively starting a war with Iran. That way, the Arab governments will eventually be made safe again, and they can all join together in issuing an angry condemnation of "another aggressive, unprovoked attack on a sovereign Muslim country by the evil Zionist state." And that should help to keep their own seething Islamist populations reasonably quiet, and lessen the likelihood of a Hamas-like grassroots group emerging to wrest power from the corrupt dictators that currently run things.

One thing's for sure: having the entire Muslim world reduced to medieval levels of social development by spending the past twenty years in Saudi-funded madrassas has not turned out well.

280 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:20:30am

re: #275 Peacekeeper

I chickened out.

No, you fowled out.......

281 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:20:33am

re: #271 Maximu§

We have (5) Carrier battlegroups floating around the Persian Gulf, billion dollar missile submarines cruising the depths, armed bombers sitting on the tarmac and trained pilots waiting for orders and Iran is laughing at us.

And nobody home at the command link willing to give the Go Code.

282 Kragar  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:20:43am

re: #271 Maximu§

We have (5) Carrier battlegroups floating around the Persian Gulf, billion dollar missile submarines cruising the depths, armed bombers sitting on the tarmac and trained pilots waiting for orders and Iran is laughing at us.

All that means jack shit if no one ever commits it to battle and we just elected Barry O.

283 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:20:52am

re: #275 Peacekeeper

I chickened out.

Did that admission stick in your craw?

284 Peacekeeper  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:21:30am

re: #280 LGoPs

No, you fowled out.......

Let that be a feather in your cap

285 midwestgak  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:21:43am

re: #258 jorline

Chinese Mom Who Had Son Strangled Sentenced to Death


The children of China pray their mothers never get remarried.


Hey {jorline} - lol - The Chinese population is reduced by at least 2./

286 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:21:44am

re: #280 LGoPs

No, you fowled out.......

No harm, no fowl.

287 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:21:51am

Out of here. Got to get ready to put on a show tonight. See you all on the backside.

288 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:21:52am

re: #283 MandyManners

Did that admission stick in your craw?

Well, he did sound eggs-aspirated.

289 Desert Dog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:22:01am

re: #240 jcm

Iran doesn't have spontaneous protests, it's all staged and many times the crowd is paid.

No doubt that is for the western press to splash all of the screens of TV's in Europe and the USA. Do they not realize their unsophisticated techniques are very oblivious?

290 Peacekeeper  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:22:02am

re: #283 MandyManners

Did that admission stick in your craw?

Not craw, CLAW!

291 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:22:13am

re: #287 Walter L. Newton

Out of here. Got to get ready to put on a show tonight. See you all on the backside.

Have a great show!

292 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:22:13am

re: #284 Peacekeeper

Let that be a feather in your cap

Hey, keep it down.

293 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:22:14am

re: #283 MandyManners

Did that admission stick in your craw?

If Charles had chosen chickens rather lizards for his brood, we'd all be gizzards.......
:)

294 Silhouette  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:22:37am
Mr. President, it is natural to man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts. ...

I have but one lamp by which my feet are guided, and that is the lamp of experience. I know of no way of judging of the future but by the past.

And judging by the past, I wish to know what there has been in the conduct of the (Hamas) for the last years to justify those hopes with which gentlemen have been pleased to solace themselves?

- funny how the classics are always applicable

295 Wishing  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:22:53am

re: #277 Killgore Trout

This is cute. Hamas fighter does interview holding an RPG with children behind him.....

Dead link: video removed

296 pink freud  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:23:01am

re: #292 Ford_Prefect

Hey, keep it down.

Aw, let 'im crow about it.

297 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:23:12am

re: #269 Dark_Falcon

Your child has wisdom beyond his (her?) years. You have done well.

PIMF

298 midwestgak  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:23:13am

re: #263 HoosierHoops

Hey Lt. ! I just rented tropic thunder...looks like a good movie..

There are some laugh-out-loud moments.

299 Peacekeeper  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:23:17am

re: #292 Ford_Prefect

Hey, keep it down.

You're just feathering your nest.

300 Desert Dog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:23:36am

re: #293 LGoPs

If Charles had chosen chickens rather lizards for his brood, we'd all be gizzards.......
:)

The Chicken logo had already been taken by DKos

301 David IV of Georgia  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:23:40am

re: #197 Opinionated

Kadima and Labor rushing to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.

Cabinet to decide on unilateral ceasefire Saturday evening

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

"Unilateral ceasefire". Crazy.

A general with a specific strategic goal might have a good reason for deciding on a unilateral ceasefire.

A politician that promotes one should be labeled a fool and a traitor. How many Israelis will this kill, I wonder.

302 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:23:57am

re: #299 Peacekeeper

You're just feathering your nest.

The future of this thread looks pretty beak.

303 Kragar  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:24:04am

re: #299 Peacekeeper

You're just feathering your nest.

Not that old canard.

304 Silhouette  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:24:05am

re: #289 Desert Dog

Do they not realize their unsophisticated techniques are very oblivious?

They write all their signs in English, and STILL the average American LLL doesn't realize that they are being played by these protests.

305 jcm  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:24:17am

re: #271 Maximu§

We have (5) Carrier battlegroups floating around the Persian Gulf, billion dollar missile submarines cruising the depths, armed bombers sitting on the tarmac and trained pilots waiting for orders and Iran is laughing at us.

Not if.
When.

Now, no nuclear card in Iran's hand the Iran economy is in rough shape. The Mad Mullah's aren't that popular.

Later, playing against the nuclear card with someone who is more than willing to use it, and accept the reprisals. In other words they are not deterred.

Seems like a no-brainier to me.

306 Peacekeeper  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:24:40am

re: #302 Ford_Prefect

The future of this thread looks pretty beak.

running out of cluck.

307 Desert Dog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:24:51am

re: #304 Silhouette

They write all their signs in English, and STILL the average American LLL doesn't realize that they are being played by these protests.

They spell better than the protesters here

308 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:25:02am

re: #302 Ford_Prefect

The future of this thread looks pretty beak.

Stop crowing about it.....

309 MandyManners  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:25:11am

Well, I gotta' get my dumplings moving. bbl

310 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:25:37am

re: #306 Peacekeeper

running out of cluck.

oh yeah.....well cl**k you........
:)

311 Peacekeeper  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:25:39am

re: #303 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Not that old canard.


I was just parroting something I had read before.

312 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:25:48am

re: #254 Killgore Trout

Hamas brags about firing rockets near civilian buildings.....

[Video]

I notice the cameraman had the presence of mind to film from a distance.

313 kcladderman  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:25:49am

The president-elect has declared Monday a National Day of Service. Want to help out? We highlight one organization that helps you find ways to get involved.
Hurry before all the good positions are gone!


//////////////////////

314 Wishing  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:26:11am

Presstv, Israel, I think:
Your text to link...

315 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:26:11am

re: #299 Peacekeeper

You're just feathering your nest.

When the IDF finally reachs the Gazacam, they should have the rooster sent to the Clintons. Hillary knows how to cackle, and Bill would enjoy spending time with something that shares his desire for a harem.

316 Texas Heathen  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:26:14am

re: #274 Alouette

Sounds like James Rollins book The Judas Strain.

I read The Judas Strain.
Pretty good book.

317 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:26:24am

re: #310 LGoPs

oh yeah.....well cl**k you........
:)

Eggcellent!

318 Peacekeeper  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:26:56am

re: #309 MandyManners

Well, I gotta' get my dumplings moving. bbl

When the going gets tough, the tough get Mandy

319 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:26:56am

re: #302 Ford_Prefect

The future of this thread looks pretty beak.

Then let's goose it into overdrive.

320 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:27:26am

re: #311 Peacekeeper

I was just parroting something I had read before.

I wouldn't mynah if you repeated that.......

321 maddogg  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:27:29am

re: #278 Desert Dog

re: #235 maddogg


Nuclear Bunker Buster

The problem with using this type of weapon is it leaves tell-tale evidence behind. The world would find out quickly the "accident" was not so accidental. Plus, the Iranians have facilities all over the place and we are not even certain what is what or where it is even is. To take out the nukes program, you almost have to take out the entire echelon of leadership. Other wise, we will have to continually bomb all the known sites with the best earth penetrating weapons we have. It would not be one bomb, it would be thousands of them.

Yes, it leaves evidence, but would the mullahs admit to the world to having their facility blown out from under them? The weapons will likely be assembled in only one facility, that is the one more intelligence is needed to pinpoint. No need to take them all out. After the threat is setback a couple of years, the time should be used to undermine the regime using all possible resources. Because if they get the bomb, and a method of delivery, they will use it.

322 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:28:45am

re: #317 Ford_Prefect

Eggcellent!

Egg zachary......

323 jcm  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:28:53am

re: #289 Desert Dog

No doubt that is for the western press to splash all of the screens of TV's in Europe and the USA. Do they not realize their unsophisticated techniques are very oblivious?

The media laps it up and presents it to US without comment, other than protests against GWB. And the folks at home, say, "see GWB" has made us unpopular around the world. We'll seldom see an anti Obama protest.

324 lobo91  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:29:27am

re: #314 Wishing

Presstv, Israel, I think:
Your text to link...

Umm, no.

Presstv is an Iranian "news" agency.

325 avanti  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:29:27am

re: #281 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

And nobody home at the command link willing to give the Go Code.

OK, I just have know since I'm trying to understand everyone. If your dream President gave the "go code" for a mission, who is the target, why, and what would be the expected result.
I'm a tad conservative when it come to going to war, I'd like to know what aggression we are responding to, and what will be the end game.

326 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:29:45am

re: #322 LGoPs

Egg zachary......

HA! The yokes on you!

327 Wishing  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:29:59am

It is Shabbat, so there may be no gaza-cam for about 26 hours.

328 AuntAcid  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:30:15am

re: #293 LGoPs

If Charles had chosen chickens rather lizards for his brood, we'd all be gizzards.......
:)

...and would that make trolls chopped liver?

329 Wishing  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:30:28am

re: #324 lobo91

Umm, no.

Presstv is an Iranian "news" agency.

Thanks!

330 Spiritualized  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:30:56am

re: #265 Alouette

Israeli TV spoofs the BBC

Genius, less extreme than al-BBC though.

331 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:31:07am

re: #326 Ford_Prefect

HA! The yokes on you!

I poached that last joke from another lizard.......

332 legalbgl  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:31:13am
Still, he added, “There doesn’t seem to be any real doubt or debate whether Iran is going for the bomb or whether Iran is using front companies to import things. Everyone agrees on that around the world.”

Umm, everyone agreed that Iraq had WMDs too. So what does this mean? Don't get me wrong, I too believe Iran is going for the bomb, or has it already. But don't give me this concensus crap. The rug comes out from the consensus when the going gets rough.

333 Texas Heathen  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:32:39am

If the pun war continues ya'all better Duck!

334 pink freud  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:33:16am

re: #331 LGoPs

I poached that last joke from another lizard.......

Robin' ain't fair.

335 Silhouette  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:33:19am

re: #327 Wishing

It is Shabbat, so there may be no gaza-cam for about 26 hours.

I thought gazacam was ran by gazans, for some reason.

336 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:33:23am

re: #333 Texas Heathen

If the pun war continues ya'all better Duck!

Just be careful not to quack your head on the table......

337 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:33:30am

re: #261 MandyManners

FREE THE GAZA ROOSTER!

Can we make Jewish Penicillin out of it? ....or would it be Palipenicillin?

338 General Nimrod Bodfish  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:33:49am

re: #327 Wishing

It is Shabbat, so there may be no gaza-cam for about 26 hours.

Ah, okay. Sucks though. Hope the rooster is resting up for his next appearance :)

339 lobo91  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:34:07am

re: #332 legalbgl

Umm, everyone agreed that Iraq had WMDs too. So what does this mean? Don't get me wrong, I too believe Iran is going for the bomb, or has it already. But don't give me this concensus crap. The rug comes out from the consensus when the going gets rough.

Makes about as much sense as people yapping about some supposed "consensus" of scientists who believe in man-made global warming.

When you're talkig about science (or intelligence, for that matter), consensus is irrelevant. What matters is the truth.

340 Kragar  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:34:07am

re: #325 avanti

OK, I just have know since I'm trying to understand everyone. If your dream President gave the "go code" for a mission, who is the target, why, and what would be the expected result.
I'm a tad conservative when it come to going to war, I'd like to know what aggression we are responding to, and what will be the end game.

I'd start with the assassination of all project heads, mullahs and military officers involved with the nuclear program, coupled with a complete blockade and support for insurgent and resistance movements for Iranian groups who would support the US. Aim for the destabilization of the Islamic Republic and replacing it with a more open system.

341 faraway  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:34:08am

Buy your Obama thong?

This is getting out of hand. Yesterday, someone was talking about birth orgasms.

I think the MSM is going to have an "inauguration orgasm" Tuesday.

342 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:34:14am

re: #334 pink freud

Robin' ain't fair.

If these full-fledged pun wars continue, I think we'll all go stark raven mad. It's simply starling the way some folks carrion.

343 jcbunga  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:34:21am

Iran must give the UN un-feathered access to its nuke program.

That's all I got.

344 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:34:34am

re: #295 Wishing

Huh. It still works for me, let me try again....

345 Texas Heathen  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:35:14am

re: #328 AuntAcid

...and would that make trolls chopped liver?

Actually chopped liver is already taken.
I am chopped liver #69
I believe Aussiemagpie is chopped liver #2

These designation were from a long time ago so most lizards probably have no idea what i'm talking about.

346 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:35:38am

re: #342 Guanxi88

If these full-fledged pun wars continue, I think we'll all go stark raven mad. It's simply starling the way some folks carrion.

Hey, that's not fair.....you hogged 3 good puns in that one. Pun hog.
:)

347 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:35:48am

re: #342 Guanxi88

If these full-fledged pun wars continue, I think we'll all go stark raven mad. It's simply starling the way some folks carrion.

Up till now I've just been winging it, but pretty soon I'll be fried.

348 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:35:59am

re: #344 Killgore Trout

Interesting...."Embedding disabled by request"

349 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:36:23am

re: #346 LGoPs

Hey, that's not fair.....you hogged 3 good puns in that one. Pun hog.
:)

re: #347 Ford_Prefect

Up till now I've just been winging it, but pretty soon I'll be fried.

Ha! I went to pun camp!

350 Desert Dog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:36:27am

re: #321 maddogg

Yes, it leaves evidence, but would the mullahs admit to the world to having their facility blown out from under them? The weapons will likely be assembled in only one facility, that is the one more intelligence is needed to pinpoint. No need to take them all out. After the threat is setback a couple of years, the time should be used to undermine the regime using all possible resources. Because if they get the bomb, and a method of delivery, they will use it.

I am not privy to any intel, but I would guess we are not certain where the "main facility" is. Maybe we are, but I think if Bush knew, he might have done it himself. Perhaps they clued Israel in on what is happening?

After Tuesday, it will not matter as the the Iranians will have a new leader of the Great Satan to deal with. I seriously doubt our new President is going to do ANYTHING preemptive. I am afraid will have to wait until Tel Aviv is incinerated, or even worse, New York or Washington vanishes in a mushroom cloud. Then and only then will our Hopey-Changey Messiah raise his mighty hands.

351 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:36:38am
352 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:37:03am

re: #334 pink freud

Robin' ain't fair.

I don't know why Batman even hung out with him.

353 lobo91  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:37:04am

re: #349 Guanxi88

Ha! I went to pun camp!

"One time, at pun camp..."

354 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:37:14am

re: #349 Guanxi88

Ha! I went to pun camp!

"This one time, wren I was at pun camp."

355 Texas Heathen  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:37:31am

re: #342 Guanxi88

If these full-fledged pun wars continue, I think we'll all go stark raven mad. It's simply starling the way some folks carrion.

I give up....There is no way I can compete with that level of punning.
LOL

356 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:37:31am

re: #348 Killgore Trout

Interesting...."Embedding disabled by request"

What about feather bedding?

357 avanti  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:37:34am

re: #332 legalbgl

Umm, everyone agreed that Iraq had WMDs too. So what does this mean? Don't get me wrong, I too believe Iran is going for the bomb, or has it already. But don't give me this concensus crap. The rug comes out from the consensus when the going gets rough.

What I don't get is the single minded attention to iran's nuke program and especially the rush to war fans. Yes, the program should be stopped at al costs, but Iran is a small threat to the US and it's allies compared to Russia, China, or even North Korea or Pakistan. North Korea is as loony as Iran, has nukes, a delivery system and so does Pakistan which is a footstep away from terrorist rule.,

358 Desert Dog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:37:39am

re: #348 Killgore Trout

Interesting...."Embedding disabled by request"

worked for me

359 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:38:15am

re: #352 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I don't know why Batman even hung out with him.

That's a fairy good question......

360 Desert Dog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:38:25am

re: #357 avanti

What I don't get is the single minded attention to iran's nuke program and especially the rush to war fans. Yes, the program should be stopped at al costs, but Iran is a small threat to the US and it's allies compared to Russia, China, or even North Korea or Pakistan. North Korea is as loony as Iran, has nukes, a delivery system and so does Pakistan which is a footstep away from terrorist rule.,

Why do you say Iran is a small threat?

361 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:38:27am

re: #354 Ford_Prefect

"This one time, wren I was at pun camp."

Ford_Prefect got himself a...

Smack!

362 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:38:32am

re: #345 Texas Heathen

Actually chopped liver is already taken.
I am chopped liver #69
I believe Aussiemagpie is chopped liver #2

These designation were from a long time ago so most lizards probably have no idea what i'm talking about.

Well I, for one, remember it ..... never made chopped liver status, but I remember ;~)

363 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:38:44am

re: #356 Dark_Falcon

What about feather bedding?

Sheet, let's not go there.

364 AuntAcid  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:38:46am

re: #342 Guanxi88

If these full-fledged pun wars continue, I think we'll all go stark raven mad. It's simply starling the way some folks carrion.

LGF is pate to play.

365 lobo91  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:39:06am

re: #360 Desert Dog

Why do you say Iran is a small threat?

He's just quoting his Dear Leader.

366 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:39:10am

The Iranians have paid ElBaradei well.

367 Silhouette  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:39:17am

re: #323 jcm

The media laps it up and presents it to US without comment, other than protests against GWB. And the folks at home, say, "see GWB" has made us unpopular around the world. We'll seldom see an anti Obama protest.

Yep.

A quick check at google news shows hundreds of stories around the globe, each one saying that "the world" is thrilled with the Change.

Searching for "Obama protest" gave me a story about GOP congress critters protesting some action, how Obama is dealing with anti-Israel protests, anti-Bush protests, etc. But not one story of any real protest of Obama.

Maybe there aren't any, you may think.

Yet just yesterday we saw a photo from Iran of a protestor painting bloodly vampire teeth on a picture of Obama.

368 faraway  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:39:35am

The Nuke project keeps humming along.

You would have to be a loon to believe its going to be peaceful. It's going to be an albatross around Obama's neck.

369 jcm  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:39:38am

Interesting how the tune changes at the NYT with the Messiah taking office.

Court Affirms Wiretapping Without Warrants

In a rare public ruling, a secret federal appeals court has said telecommunications companies must cooperate with the government to intercept international phone calls and e-mail of American citizens suspected of being spies or terrorists.
370 Wishing  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:39:41am

re: #344 Killgore Trout

Huh. It still works for me, let me try again....

I am using Firefox, says video disabled. Oh well.

371 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:39:50am

re: #363 Ford_Prefect

Sheet, let's not go there.

Aw come on! Box-spring into action!

372 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:39:52am

re: #366 Ward Cleaver

The Iranians have paid ElBaradei well.

Why pay when he'd spout his shit for free?

373 Ayeless in Ghazi  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:39:58am

Orders, civilians and bombs

Read how the story of an Israeli pilot aborting some targets to avoid civilian casualties becomes, in the words of Iran's press TV :

"An Israeli Apache helicopter pilot is refusing to take part in the ongoing onslaught against the civilians in the Gaza Strip."

374 Silhouette  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:40:39am

re: #352 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I don't know why Batman even hung out with him.

You see, when a super hero and a sidekick love each other very much...

375 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:41:00am

re: #363 Ford_Prefect

Sheet, let's not go there.

Flocking-A......

376 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:41:02am

re: #371 Dark_Falcon

Aw come on! Box-spring into action!

Tempur(pedic) your enthusiasm.

377 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:41:20am

re: #373 Jimmah

Orders, civilians and bombs

Read how the story of an Israeli pilot aborting some targets to avoid civilian casualties becomes, in the words of Iran's press TV :

"An Israeli Apache helicopter pilot is refusing to take part in the ongoing onslaught against the civilians in the Gaza Strip."

Ha! That headline could have come from Reuters!

378 razorbacker  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:41:31am

This explains so much. People who take in the caffeine equivalent of three cups of brewed coffee (or seven cups of instant) are more likely to hallucinate, a new study suggests.

Cause you see, I drink quite a bit of coffee. Sometimes a pot a day. And I've got to tell you, things have been looks kinda Kafkaesque lately.

A couple of months ago, I even thought that America had elected a socialist, terrorist-coddling Chicago Machine Pol as President.

It's the coming down off the buzz that is always the worst.

379 shane  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:41:46am

Having spent 20 years in the nuclear industry I have found it puzzling that people wonder whether or not Iran has a nuclear weapon. The construction of such a weapon is just not that difficult. The only part that presents a challenge is the enrichment of the Uranium to get the Uranium 235 out. U235 is only .1% of the Uranium in naturally occuring Uranium. That said, we did it with crude instruments and technology in 1943. Why, with all the technology available today, would anyone think they haven't done it? The real question isn't if they have it, it is how many do they have and what is the method of delivery? Iran will have to have assurances from China and Russia before it uses a nuke that they will interfere with us retaliating. That is what they are waiting for. They need to know before they use one that they have us in check with another super power. Currently, they don't have that so they will hold off until they feel they are in a position to launch one without retaliation from us. But that is just the opinion of someone who has worked with Uranium for 20 years. Maybe some socialist economist at the UN who works in the Nuclear arms area knows more.

380 jcbunga  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:41:50am

re: #373 Jimmah

Orders, civilians and bombs

Read how the story of an Israeli pilot aborting some targets to avoid civilian casualties becomes, in the words of Iran's press TV :

"An Israeli Apache helicopter pilot is refusing to take part in the ongoing onslaught against the civilians in the Gaza Strip."

or..."Gazan civilians denied martyrdom by heartless jooooooos..."

381 faraway  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:41:55am

re: #374 Silhouette

You see, when a super hero and a sidekick love each other very much...

There are gay superheros now, of course.

382 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:42:27am

re: #375 LGoPs

Flocking-A......

That's a cardinal sin.

383 AuntAcid  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:43:04am

re: #345 Texas Heathen

Actually chopped liver is already taken.
I am chopped liver #69
I believe Aussiemagpie is chopped liver #2

These designation were from a long time ago so most lizards probably have no idea what i'm talking about.

"Getting old is not for the weak."
Darwin

384 Kragar  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:43:27am

re: #357 avanti

What I don't get is the single minded attention to iran's nuke program and especially the rush to war fans. Yes, the program should be stopped at al costs, but Iran is a small threat to the US and it's allies compared to Russia, China, or even North Korea or Pakistan. North Korea is as loony as Iran, has nukes, a delivery system and so does Pakistan which is a footstep away from terrorist rule.,

Russia and China both have nukes, but have no desire to destroy, but rather to control. For them, their nukes arsenals are a bargaining chip for controling others. For North Korea, its an exportable resource and a threat they can use to extort their neighbors and gain concessions with. Pakistan is indeed highly dangerous, but the powers that be understand the dangers that the Indian nuclear arsenal holds, but could change. Iran on the other hand feels it has a holy duty in acquiring and using nuclear weapons to destroy their enemy. The other countries are indeed dangerous, but Iran is bat shit fucking insane.

385 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:44:11am

re: #382 Ford_Prefect

That's a cardinal sin.

Fills my heart with deep sparrow..........

Yeah - I know, that one's a stretch.....

386 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:44:15am

If we were known as Birds instead of Lizards, would new members be known as "nuthatch-lings?"

387 J.S.  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:44:21am

re: #348 Killgore Trout

Is there a "work around" for that?

388 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:44:32am

re: #373 Jimmah

Orders, civilians and bombs

Read how the story of an Israeli pilot aborting some targets to avoid civilian casualties becomes, in the words of Iran's press TV :

"An Israeli Apache helicopter pilot is refusing to take part in the ongoing onslaught against the civilians in the Gaza Strip."

You know, this would be a great game for Charles to start on LGF. Lizards could find a story, and rewrite the headline to make it completely the reverse of what's in the story itself. (Or vice versa.)

389 jcm  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:44:33am

re: #357 avanti

What I don't get is the single minded attention to iran's nuke program and especially the rush to war fans. Yes, the program should be stopped at al costs, but Iran is a small threat to the US and it's allies compared to Russia, China, or even North Korea or Pakistan. North Korea is as loony as Iran, has nukes, a delivery system and so does Pakistan which is a footstep away from terrorist rule.,

NorKo is semi-rational. Kim wants to retain power, hence deterrence works with him.

Pakistan is still somewhat friendly, and we cooperated with them on nuclear security. Ergo since we know the security, you can bet your bottom dollar we have an extrication, disablement plan.

Iran is not rational in our terms. The Mad Mullahs and Dinnerjacket belong to the cult of the 12th Imam. Armageddon will bring the Madhi back, which is a good thing to them. Flipping a nuc at Tel Aviv and suffering the retaliation is RATIONAL to Dinnerjacket.

A nuclear Iran is more than a small danger. It cannot be allowed to go nuclear without serious very dangerous ramifications.

390 Texas Heathen  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:44:44am

re: #368 faraway

The Nuke project keeps humming along.

You would have to be a loon to believe its going to be peaceful. It's going to be an albatross around Obama's neck.

way to pun and stay on topic. LOL

391 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:44:45am

re: #316 Texas Heathen

I read The Judas Strain.
Pretty good book.

James Rollins is good. His books would make great movies.

392 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:45:19am

re: #385 LGoPs

re: #386 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

We better stop this or people will start to think we are boobies.
.
.
.
Wait for it...3...2...1...

393 Kragar  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:45:40am

re: #381 faraway

There are gay superheros now, of course.

I dont see what the big deal is. They had a gay superhero for years. Canadian superhero in Alpha Flight, think it was Northstar, was supposed to have been gay since the late 80s.

394 maddogg  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:45:47am

re: #350 Desert Dog

re: #321 maddogg


I am not privy to any intel, but I would guess we are not certain where the "main facility" is. Maybe we are, but I think if Bush knew, he might have done it himself. Perhaps they clued Israel in on what is happening?

After Tuesday, it will not matter as the the Iranians will have a new leader of the Great Satan to deal with. I seriously doubt our new President is going to do ANYTHING preemptive. I am afraid will have to wait until Tel Aviv is incinerated, or even worse, New York or Washington vanishes in a mushroom cloud. Then and only then will our Hopey-Changey Messiah raise his mighty hands.

Doing nothing preemptive means being reactive. That guarantees at a minimum, a crippling loss, and if the enemy is capable enough, total capitulation. Barry is so lost, he has brought back the Clinton administration in hopes of some guidance. We are so screwed, and many of us deserve it, but not all of us.

395 Silhouette  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:45:49am

re: #384 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

The other countries are indeed dangerous, but Iran is bat shit fucking insane.

Just because it needs to be said again.

396 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:46:02am

Hamas has rejected the Israeli ceasefire terms.
Livni makes a show of signing an unenforceable memo with Rice, which Obama will probably use for toilet paper.

Israel is delusional if it thinks that anyone in the world believes their idiotic claim that they are not indirectly negotiating with Hamas through Egypt.

If Olmert/Livni/Barak declare an Orwellian "unilateral ceasefire" then that will be correctly viewed throughout the world as a military and political defeat for Israel.

And where is Gilad Shalit?

Israel must finish the job of destroying Hamas and ending the missile attacks BEFORE there is any talk of ending the Gaza operation.

397 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:46:27am

About these poultry attempts at humor, with particular reference to that Al-Qapon:

GUTMAN: You mean you don't know what that bird is?

SPADE: Well, I know what it's supposed to look like. I know the value in human
life you people put on it.

398 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:46:39am

re: #384 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Russia and China both have nukes, but have no desire to destroy, but rather to control. For them, their nukes arsenals are a bargaining chip for controling others. For North Korea, its an exportable resource and a threat they can use to extort their neighbors and gain concessions with. Pakistan is indeed highly dangerous, but the powers that be understand the dangers that the Indian nuclear arsenal holds, but could change. Iran on the other hand feels it has a holy duty in acquiring and using nuclear weapons to destroy their enemy. The other countries are indeed dangerous, but Iran is bat shit fucking insane.

Which is precisely why the argument 'other country's have nukes' doesn't apply to them..........
Sheesh....how hard is it to understand that.

399 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:46:41am

re: #392 Ford_Prefect

re: #386 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

We better stop this or people will start to think we are boobies.
.
.
.
Wait for it...3...2...1...

One.

400 avanti  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:46:44am

re: #360 Desert Dog

Why do you say Iran is a small threat?

'compared to Russia, China, or even North Korea or Pakistan. "


They are years away from nukes, have no long range delivery system while the others have both. If we able to deter the Soviet Union with 1000's of war heads for decades, we can surly deal with a piss ant Iran even if they manage a program without us or Israel taking them out.
They may become a threat to Israel, Europe and the mid east in a decade, but why is it the US's responsibility to be the cop for them.

401 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:46:48am

It was Said Siam's brother who attacked the US Airways flight in revenge for Israel's Gaza ops.

His name (get ready for it): Ohwa Tagoo

402 J.S.  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:47:14am

re: #187 lawhawk

I think it should be fairly obvious that if Iran goes nuclear, then it means a nuclear arms race (and proliferation of nuclear weapons) in the Middle East has just gotten the go-ahead.

403 Killian Bundy  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:47:28am

Parrot mimics owner's voice to boss around her other pets

Barney, an African Grey Parrot, calls Margaret Sullivan's three dogs – Harry, Tilly and Bluey – by name.

The bird, 10, squawks out orders like "come here" and even offers praise to his favourites such as "good dog".

/dogs are so dumb, a cat would just consider it food that makes noise

404 kcladderman  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:47:33am

re: #293 LGoPs

If Charles had chosen chickens rather lizards for his brood, we'd all be gizzards.......
:)

Would that make some of us too cocky?

405 Killgore Trout  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:47:54am

re: #387 J.S.

I did a direct link at #351.

406 CommonCents  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:48:42am

re: #367 Silhouette

Yep.

A quick check at google news shows hundreds of stories around the globe, each one saying that "the world" is thrilled with the Change.

Searching for "Obama protest" gave me a story about GOP congress critters protesting some action, how Obama is dealing with anti-Israel protests, anti-Bush protests, etc. But not one story of any real protest of Obama.

Maybe there aren't any, you may think.

Yet just yesterday we saw a photo from Iran of a protestor painting bloodly vampire teeth on a picture of Obama.

Google is part of the Obamatron camp so they probably have a filter in place to exclude O- stories from the query results.

407 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:49:17am

re: #393 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I dont see what the big deal is. They had a gay superhero for years. Canadian superhero in Alpha Flight, think it was Northstar, was supposed to have been gay since the late 80s.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
/Being gay, I mean. Being Canadian, however...

408 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:49:33am

re: #399 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

One.

I suppose if we don't thrush into it, and all take out tern, then this lark won't be so bad.

409 Texas Heathen  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:50:48am

re: #391 Alouette

James Rollins is good. His books would make great movies.

I read a lot of books when I travel.(field service)
The Judas Strain is the one with the Hi-jacked cruise ship and glowing people right?

410 Ayeless in Ghazi  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:51:52am

re: #388 subsailor68

You know, this would be a great game for Charles to start on LGF. Lizards could find a story, and rewrite the headline to make it completely the reverse of what's in the story itself. (Or vice versa.)

The reverse version sounds like a good laugh. "See if you can decipher from this bullshit headline what actually happened?"

411 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:52:01am

re: #408 Ford_Prefect

I suppose if we don't thrush into it, and all take out tern, then this lark won't be so bad.

Hey, chick it out. Ford_Prefect wrens the pun prize.

412 Silhouette  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:52:31am

re: #398 LGoPs

Which is precisely why the argument 'other country's have nukes' doesn't apply to them..........
Sheesh....how hard is it to understand that.

But Obama said that Iran was a tiny threat, and some people are operating under the delusion that Obama knows things.

They must have missed when Obama reversed himself (probably after having his ass handed to him by handlers who couldn't believe he said that about Iran) and said

Barack Obama on Wednesday said Iran is a "great threat"

Of course, he still thinks the cure to this great threat is more talking. He is sure he can talk Iran out of it with his "direct diplomacy."

413 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:53:09am

re: #411 LGoPs

Hey, chick it out. Ford_Prefect wrens the pun prize.

WooHoo!

/dances around like loon.

414 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:53:30am

re: #374 Silhouette

You see, when a super hero and a sidekick love each other very much...

We're talking about Batman and Robin, not Ace and Gary.

415 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:53:38am

re: #412 Silhouette

Of course, he still thinks the cure to this great threat is more talking. He is sure he can talk Iran out of it with his "direct diplomacy."

We are in such trouble.........

416 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:53:39am

re: #408 Ford_Prefect

I suppose if we don't thrush into it, and all take out tern, then this lark won't be so bad.

Stop robin my puns.

417 zelnaga  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:54:12am
All of the high-performance metals Iran has been acquiring also have industrial uses such as commercial aviation and manufacturing, making it difficult for intelligence agencies to be absolutely certain how the materials are being used.


I think that's the real conundrum, however, in lieu of more information (which is probably classified and will only be revealed to the general public twenty years from now), I guess I'm just going to have to withhold judgment for now.

418 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:55:23am

re: #416 Spare O'Lake

Stop robin my puns.

Sparrow me your outrage.....
:)

419 Desert Dog  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:55:46am

re: #394 maddogg

I hear ya, Brother......we are in the hand basket and going down

420 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:55:48am

re: #416 Spare O'Lake

Stop robin my puns.

I didn't eider!

*Quailing with rage.

421 subsailor68  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:55:59am

re: #410 Jimmah

The reverse version sounds like a good laugh. "See if you can decipher from this bullshit headline what actually happened?"

Oh man, great idea for a mod to the original idea. Lizards (on their honor, of course), would guess what the real story was, then click on the link to see if they were right.

I love the idea for two reasons. First, of course, because it would be fun - and lizards tend to be pretty creative folks. Second, because it would, in a tongue-in-cheek way, point out how the MSM actually tries to pull this crap off.

422 jcm  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:56:05am

re: #400 avanti

'compared to Russia, China, or even North Korea or Pakistan. "

They are years away from nukes, have no long range delivery system while the others have both. If we able to deter the Soviet Union with 1000's of war heads for decades, we can surly deal with a piss ant Iran even if they manage a program without us or Israel taking them out.
They may become a threat to Israel, Europe and the mid east in a decade, but why is it the US's responsibility to be the cop for them.

Iran learned how to launch missiles from ships in Caspian Sea. Put a Shahab III on ship and we are threatened, an 300km high air burst would shut down the Eastern 2/3rds of the US. Or simply lob it at DC or New York in a fractional orbit tracetory and our response time would be 3-8 minutes instead of 20.

423 revobob  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:56:05am

re: #302 Ford_Prefect

The future of this thread looks pretty beak.

Oh! Wattle we do?

424 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:56:26am

re: #420 Ford_Prefect

I didn't eider!

*Quailing with rage.

Hope you all have a pheasant day.........

425 VioletTiger  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:56:40am

re: #400 avanti

But the Russians don't blow themselves up, do they? There are way too many wackos in Iran just looking to be martyrs. 'Small' country, big on stupid.

426 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:57:06am

re: #423 revobob

Oh! Wattle we do?

We are in a peck of trouble.

427 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:57:59am

re: #425 VioletTiger

But the Russians don't blow themselves up, do they? There are way too many wackos in Iran just looking to be martyrs. 'Small' country, big on stupid.

So many martyr's, so few targets. What's a mullah to do?
/////

428 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:58:33am

I will murder the next person who crows about bird puns.

429 revobob  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:58:53am

re: #333 Texas Heathen

If the pun war continues ya'all better Duck!


So,... you're a dove?

430 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:59:00am

re: #428 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I will murder the next person who crows about bird puns.

Such unkindness at a time that calls for an exaltation.

431 avanti  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 11:59:04am

re: #389 jcm

jcm, good points all and thanks for a rational reply. Your main point is that Iran's leadership is nuttier then Korea's, and Pakistan is nominally pro US as we speak, and I agree.
However, Pakistan especially is troublesome to me and I'm not sure that either might slip a nuke to the terrorists at some point. My main point is the US seems to be the country expected to expend it's blood and money to protect countries near the threat while they sit back and watch.
The rush for the US to bomb the crap out of Iran and bear al the costs just goes against my grain.

432 maddogg  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:00:17pm

Just say no to bad habits, such as foul language, nose picking, ass scratching, and puns.

433 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:00:21pm

re: #418 LGoPs

Sparrow me your outrage.....
:)

It takes a lot of gull to say that.

434 Silhouette  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:00:38pm

re: #414 Dark_Falcon

We're talking about Batman and Robin, not Ace and Gary.

Have you seen Batman and Robin here? And Superman is with them.

This is an actual comic book.

435 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:01:21pm

What's that children's nursery rhyme about 12 and 20 SR-71's in a pie?

436 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:01:27pm

re: #433 Spare O'Lake

It takes a lot of gull to say that.

Albatross!

437 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:01:49pm

re: #428 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I will murder the next person who crows about bird puns.

You hawks are always so violent.

438 WriterMom  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:01:52pm

re: #306 Peacekeeper

YOU!

Shabbat Shalom...

439 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:02:05pm

re: #433 Spare O'Lake

It takes a lot of gull to say that.

Don't cormorant here with that stuff.

440 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:02:32pm

re: #432 maddogg

Just say no to bad habits, such as foul Fowl language, nose picking, ass scratching, and puns.

fixed. ;-)

441 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:02:42pm

re: #435 LGoPs

What's that children's nursery rhyme about 12 and 20 SR-71's in a pie?

COOLEST FREAKIN' PLANE EVAH!

442 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:02:43pm

re: #437 Ford_Prefect

You hawks are always so violent.

And I'm told that you're pretty cheep.......
:)

443 maddogg  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:03:15pm

re: #440 Ford_Prefect

fixed. ;-)

I wondered how long it would take for that to happen.

444 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:03:34pm

re: #442 LGoPs

And I'm told that you're pretty cheep.......
:)

You just egret you can't keep up.

445 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:03:35pm
446 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:03:40pm

re: #436 Guanxi88

Albatross!

OK, just keep pigeon 'em in here.

447 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:04:06pm

re: #444 Ford_Prefect

You just egret you can't keep up.

In all condor, it's time to quit and move to the next thread.

448 revobob  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:04:10pm

re: #371 Dark_Falcon

Aw come on! Box-spring into action!


Wish you all would quit squab-bling- it's puttin me on a quilt trip!

449 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:04:24pm
450 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:05:00pm
451 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:05:09pm

re: #449 ploome hineni

keep parroting that line, dont budgie

Jeez! Charles is definitely not gonna like folks like you, gamehen the system.

452 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:05:18pm

Let's all go over and flock up the next thread............who's with me
/*Bluto*

453 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:05:18pm

re: #441 Guanxi88

COOLEST FREAKIN' PLANE EVAH!

Yeah, but they make a mess leakin' all over the driveway.

454 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:05:30pm

re: #436 Guanxi88

Albatross!

455 revobob  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:05:34pm

re: #386 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

If we were known as Birds instead of Lizards, would new members be known as "nuthatch-lings?"


Only the tit-mice

456 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:06:21pm

re: #434 Silhouette

Have you seen Batman and Robin here? And Superman is with them.

This is an actual comic book.

Damn, I wish I could find a photo of the worst comic cover ever. There's a WWII issue of Brave & Bold with Batman, Robin & Superman, each straddling a gun barrel of a battleship turret. NTTATWWT.

457 kcladderman  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:06:33pm

re: #431 avanti

jcm, good points all and thanks for a rational reply. Your main point is that Iran's leadership is nuttier then Korea's, and Pakistan is nominally pro US as we speak, and I agree.
However, Pakistan especially is troublesome to me and I'm not sure that either might slip a nuke to the terrorists at some point. My main point is the US seems to be the country expected to expend it's blood and money to protect countries near the threat while they sit back and watch.
The rush for the US to bomb the crap out of Iran and bear al the costs just goes against my grain.

I agree with you on the Pakistan threat. They have nukes and are just a coup away from them falling into the wrong hands.
As for the US protecting other countries. Thats the way of the world we live in. If the US doesn't step up no one else will. Unfortunately we need to keep the oil flowing from the Middle East for the next several years.

458 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:06:52pm

re: #436 Guanxi88

Albatross!

459 avanti  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:07:17pm

re: #406 CommonCents

Google is part of the Obamatron camp so they probably have a filter in place to exclude O- stories from the query results.

I don't think having our President popular everywhere except in the radical Muslim world is a bad thing, even if you don't like the guy. If the British, French or whoever like the guy, that does not automatically make him a bad guy, they could be right, or just sucked in by the hope and change thing and he'll have a short honeymoon.

460 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:07:21pm

re: #458 Guanxi88

I think your cuckoo.

461 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:07:50pm

re: #450 ploome hineni

you wood pecker!

Fly down?

462 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:08:02pm

re: #460 Ford_Prefect

I think your cuckoo.

That one flew right over my nest.

463 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:08:23pm

re: #458 Guanxi88

Albert Ross....wasn't he Betsy's husband?

464 maddogg  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:08:23pm

re: #457 kcladderman

I agree with you on the Pakistan threat. They have nukes and are just a coup away from them falling into the wrong hands.
As for the US protecting other countries. Thats the way of the world we live in. If the US doesn't step up no one else will. Unfortunately we need to keep the oil flowing from the Middle East for the next several years.

Yes, and Barry and his merry men will make damn sure to keep it that way too.

465 Guanxi88  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:08:25pm

re: #436 Guanxi88

Albatross!

466 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:08:25pm

Just had a thought on the airliner landing in the Hudson....

Could it be that the Hamas Rooster had a sleeper cell in the New York goose population and the downing of the plane was a suicide mission?

467 revobob  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:09:53pm

re: #428 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I will murder the next person who crows about bird puns.


And I'll put a gag-gle order on you, silly goose!

468 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:10:03pm

Perhaps a Teroist attack by Honcos?

469 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:10:13pm

re: #462 Guanxi88

That one flew right over my nest.

Shrike 3....you're out!

470 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:10:30pm

re: #465 Guanxi88

What flavor is it?

471 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:11:29pm

re: #469 LGoPs

Shrike 3....you're out!

*Cranes his neck to see who you're talking too.

472 avanti  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:12:14pm

re: #457 kcladderman

I agree with you on the Pakistan threat. They have nukes and are just a coup away from them falling into the wrong hands.
As for the US protecting other countries. Thats the way of the world we live in. If the US doesn't step up no one else will. Unfortunately we need to keep the oil flowing from the Middle East for the next several years.

You nailed it with the oil issue. It's a damn shame that we even have to consider war because we are at the mercy of a few mid eastern countries. I dream of the day when we don't need a barrel of their damn oil and they can piss off back to the 12th century if they like.

473 revobob  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:12:47pm

Hey Buzz- if you charged for puns, what would your phoebe?

474 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:13:31pm

re: #471 Ford_Prefect

*Cranes his neck to see who you're talking too.

Weren't you heron me......I was talkin about Guanxi88

475 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:13:51pm

re: #473 revobob

Hey Buzz- if you charged for puns, what would your phoebe?

LOL.......good one

476 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:14:07pm
477 jcm  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:15:28pm

re: #431 avanti

jcm, good points all and thanks for a rational reply. Your main point is that Iran's leadership is nuttier then Korea's, and Pakistan is nominally pro US as we speak, and I agree.
However, Pakistan especially is troublesome to me and I'm not sure that either might slip a nuke to the terrorists at some point. My main point is the US seems to be the country expected to expend it's blood and money to protect countries near the threat while they sit back and watch.
The rush for the US to bomb the crap out of Iran and bear al the costs just goes against my grain.

I can't argue with you there. Pakistan slipping toward the radicals is very worrisome.

I would be in a rush to bomb Iran either. Except I'm convinced Iran will use a nuclear weapon if they obtain one, most likely against Israel. That will brew up into a full scale mid-east war IMHO.

I hope and pray I'm wrong.

478 jcm  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:16:25pm

re: #472 avanti

You nailed it with the oil issue. It's a damn shame that we even have to consider war because we are at the mercy of a few mid eastern countries. I dream of the day when we don't need a barrel of their damn oil and they can piss off back to the 12th century if they like.

Drill here.
Drill now.

Absolutely.

479 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:17:14pm
480 LGoPs  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:18:08pm

Ostrich'd that pun thread as far as it would go........

481 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:18:55pm

re: #476 ploome hineni

booby thread

Is that chickadee cup?

482 revobob  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:25:01pm

Careful- you'll ruffle her Ploome-age!

483 Amer-I-Can  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:26:11pm

Iran will continue after the "prize" while those around them just keep crapping themselves. As soon as they are close I would expect Israel to do a bit more than just talk.

484 Rancher  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:27:32pm

re: #472 avanti

You nailed it with the oil issue. It's a damn shame that we even have to consider war because we are at the mercy of a few mid eastern countries. I dream of the day when we don't need a barrel of their damn oil and they can piss off back to the 12th century if they like.

What we need is a nuclear program to generate energy like Iran is researching. Oh, wait... BTW, aren't we getting close to fusion power yet? Will the left let us use it?

If successful, the plasma fusion energy can provide the carbon-free energy to humankind for over a million years

NYU Professor Choong-Seock Chang

485 avanti  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:27:37pm

re: #422 jcm

Iran learned how to launch missiles from ships in Caspian Sea. Put a Shahab III on ship and we are threatened, an 300km high air burst would shut down the Eastern 2/3rds of the US. Or simply lob it at DC or New York in a fractional orbit tracetory and our response time would be 3-8 minutes instead of 20.

So they they knock out our communication for a few hours, while we lob in a few 20 megaton warheads as payback. Even for the nut jobs, seems a zero sum game. I worry more about them, the Pakistani's or Korean's supplying a portable nuke to a non government terrorist group to make it hard to know who to vaporize.

486 avanti  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:31:46pm

re: #478 jcm

Drill here.
Drill now.

Absolutely.

Catchy quote, but there's not near enough oil to make up the loss of mid eastern oil. We need more nuke, solar and wind plants to make a dent.

487 alegrias  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:32:14pm

re: #307 Desert Dog

They spell better than the protesters here

* * *
Silly wabbit, it's because they're probably elite Harvard and Columbia graduates or employees, like Professor Rashid Khalidi.

488 debutaunt  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:34:50pm

re: #345 Texas Heathen

Actually chopped liver is already taken.
I am chopped liver #69
I believe Aussiemagpie is chopped liver #2

These designation were from a long time ago so most lizards probably have no idea what i'm talking about.

Excellent tradecraft.

489 eschew_obfuscation  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:37:52pm
484 Rancher
1/16/09 12:27:32 pm reply quote

re: #472 avanti

You nailed it with the oil issue. It's a damn shame that we even have to consider war because we are at the mercy of a few mid eastern countries. I dream of the day when we don't need a barrel of their damn oil and they can piss off back to the 12th century if they like.

What we need is a nuclear program to generate energy like Iran is researching. Oh, wait... BTW, aren't we getting close to fusion power yet? Will the left let us use it?


Of course not, silly. It wouldn't cripple our economy. //

490 Rancher  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:41:19pm

re: #485 avanti

So they they knock out our communication for a few hours, while we lob in a few 20 megaton warheads as payback. Even for the nut jobs, seems a zero sum game. I worry more about them, the Pakistani's or Korean's supplying a portable nuke to a non government terrorist group to make it hard to know who to vaporize.

Nuclear weapons, once exploded, have a distinctive "signature" that can be traced back the country of origin. The only problem is if some crook in Russia sells one of theirs to the terrorists. We can retaliate if Pakistan, Korea, or Iran do it but Russia poses some problems.

491 Rancher  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:46:10pm

re: #489 eschew_obfuscation

Of course not, silly. It wouldn't cripple our economy. //

Obama and the Military - Industrial - Scientific Complex

Dwight Eisenhower’s farewell address as president 48 years ago is famous for his warning of the rise of a “military-industrial complex” in the United States. In fact, the original draft of the speech warned not only of a “military-industrial complex” but of the “military-industrial-scientific complex.” Only because of the plea of Eisenhower’s science advisor, James Killian, was the word “scientific” eliminated.

The “military-industrial-scientific complex” was the far more accurate description of the complex of vested interests manipulating the U.S. then—and now. As the incoming president, Barack Obama, draws from this federal scientific establishment for appointments, the warning needs to be sounded again.

Obama has named as his secretary of energy Dr. Steven Chu, a physicist and director of Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory and a staunch advocate of nuclear power—typical of the sentiment of those in the national nuclear laboratory system. At his confirmation hearing Tuesday before the Senate’s Energy and Natural Resources Committee, Dr. Chu declared that nuclear power “is going to be an important part of our energy mix.” He also spoke for an $18.5 billion loan guarantee program for new nuclear power plants.

492 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:46:53pm

re: #485 avanti

So they they knock out our communication for a few hours, while we lob in a few 20 megaton warheads as payback. Even for the nut jobs, seems a zero sum game. I worry more about them, the Pakistani's or Korean's supplying a portable nuke to a non government terrorist group to make it hard to know who to vaporize.

avanti, an emp does a lot more than knockout communications. Everything non-hardened, ie civilian, that contains microchip technology goes bye-bye - everything. Whether it's on or off makes no difference. Cars, generators, radios, pumps, you name it...AMF...and since there's no power to produce or run machinery your SOL for a real.long.time.

493 avanti  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:50:51pm

re: #484 Rancher

NYU Professor Choong-Seock Chang

The new energy secretary is pro nuke:
"Steven Chu said on Tuesday that he would push as the new energy secretary to help the nuclear energy and clean coal industries jump-start their contributions to battle the nation’s energy crisis.

The Nobel Prize-winning physicist told the Senate Energy and Natural Resources Committee during his confirmation hearing that he’d help streamline nuclear loan guarantees that would help the industry construct several new plants to produce low-emission energy and would push the Energy Department to examine options for recycling nuclear waste.

“I’m supportive of the fact that the nuclear industry should have to be part of energy mix in this century,” Chu said. “And recycling [nuclear waste] in the long term can be part of the solution.”

494 Ben Hur  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 12:54:18pm

The United Arab Emirates has informed the U.S. that in September it intercepted a Chinese shipment headed to Iran of specialized aluminum sheets that can be used to make ballistic missiles, which, instead of sending to the Iranians, the UAE sent to Hamas. A month earlier, UAE officials also intercepted an Iran-bound shipment of titanium sheets that can be used in long-range missiles, which, instead of sending to the Iranians, the UAE sent to Hamas.

More likely.

495 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 1:07:02pm
Think about this scenario: An ordinary-looking freighter ship heading toward New York or Los Angeles launches a missile from its hull or from a canister lowered into the sea. It hits a densely populated area. A million people are incinerated. The ship is then sunk. No one claims responsibility. There is no firm evidence as to who sponsored the attack, and thus no one against whom to launch a counterstrike.

But as terrible as that scenario sounds, there is one that is worse. Let us say the freighter ship launches a nuclear-armed Shahab-3 missile off the coast of the U.S. and the missile explodes 300 miles over Chicago. The nuclear detonation in space creates an electromagnetic pulse (EMP).

Gamma rays from the explosion, through the Compton Effect, generate three classes of disruptive electromagnetic pulses, which permanently destroy consumer electronics, the electronics in some automobiles and, most importantly, the hundreds of large transformers that distribute power throughout the U.S. All of our lights, refrigerators, water-pumping stations, TVs and radios stop running. We have no communication and no ability to provide food and water to 300 million Americans.

496 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 1:27:47pm

It's pretty funny, when you think off it. These moonbat lib's are sitting ducks. Blind ignorants. All it will take is a suicide freighter or two going up the Hudson and the Potomac. And they worry about car bombs? Yeah, right. And they worry about global warming? Like 2,000 degrees in Manhattan. Nothing to worry about. Move along. After the 1st truck bombing at the WTC, nothing could be worse, can it?

497 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 1:36:17pm

As a lover of Key West.
How does that song go?
Jiimmy Buffets new song:

"Wasting away in moonbatville.
Looking for my radioactive shaker of sallt.
Some people say there is a woman to blame, (Hilary)
But I know, it's my own damn fault"

498 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 1:47:00pm
499 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 1:50:26pm
500 Basho  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 1:51:44pm

re: #400 avanti


They may become a threat to Israel, Europe and the mid east in a decade, but why is it the US's responsibility to be the cop for them.

Agreed. Let the EU actually put to good use those Eurofighter Typhoons.

501 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 1:53:48pm
502 Basho  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 1:57:55pm

re: #484 Rancher

BTW, aren't we getting close to fusion power yet? Will the left let us use it?


As one cynic put it: Fusion is the energy of the future and always will be.

503 avanti  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 1:58:12pm

re: #492 aboo-Hoo-Hoo

avanti, an emp does a lot more than knockout communications. Everything non-hardened, ie civilian, that contains microchip technology goes bye-bye - everything. Whether it's on or off makes no difference. Cars, generators, radios, pumps, you name it...AMF...and since there's no power to produce or run machinery your SOL for a real.long.time.

The direct effect is limited. A air burst 200 miles high is equivalent to a lighting strike at 7 miles, it's the multiple pulse on the grid that can cause a cascading effect over a large area. Cars and electronics not on a grid would only shut down very close to ground zero.Even if it did shut down the grid and the like, no nation state is going to trade that disruption for their vaporization.
They'd be better off just dropping the nuke on NYC, if they wanted to kill us before the 30 minute wait for them to go to the virgins. As was stated,the safest choice would be the anomalous bomb on a freighter in a cargo container.

504 avanti  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 2:02:11pm

re: #499 Iron Fist

The thing is that an EMP weapon is orders of magnitude greater than a Hiroshima-level weapon. As a practical matter, I think an EMP weapon has to be a thermonuclear bomb. I'm not saying that the Iranians will never be able to do it, only that there are some more hurdles they will have to clear.

I don't think the Iranians will be able to hold off using their wonderful new toys that long.

Good point, it takes a big ass bomb to work. The Hiroshima type bombs would not even knock out the receivers on the Enola Gay although they felt the shock wave.

505 So?  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 2:19:04pm

THE WHOLE WORLD IS HELPING

THE WHOLE WORLD IS HELPING

THE WHOLE WORLD IS HELPING

(nobody's watchin')

506 So?  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 2:20:31pm

re: #2 alegrias

Thank you for reporting this, Charles.

I posted it in the spinoff links before Charles and only got 1 ding.

Charles got 42

507 Smorgasbord  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 2:21:15pm

You all have forgotten how Obama said he is going END the nuclear arms race. He plans to do it peacefully without harming anybody. He is going to reduce OUR nuclear arsenal little by little. The other countries will be so EMBARRASSED that they have more nukes than we do that they will do the same.

Maybe our police forces could try this. Tell the crooks our police officers are going to carry fewer bullets, then gradually reduce the number to zero, then get rid of their guns. I know the crooks will be so EMBARRASSED that they have more bullets and guns than the cops that they will be crying themselves to sleep until they give up their bullets and weapons.

If we do that with our military too, we could eliminate ALL wars and live in peace. So let's try his way first and "Give peace a change." Besides, if THE MIGHTY OBAMA'S way fails, we can always, um, ah, ....

508 mdaspinall  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 5:02:13pm

why, when obama got elected did i suddenly start to feel uneasy over here in the uk ?

509 Cutty Sark  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 7:10:58pm

So it's the Chinese again ? hmmm, specialized aluminum sheeting for missiles eh ?

This may be a good thing ! If these parts are as good as the baby milk formula and the dog food and cell phone batteries the make ...those missles dont have a chance in hell .

510 Cutty Sark  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 7:15:44pm

re #502
dont worry about the left on fusion , worry about the oil Companies .
It already has become quite clear that the recent highest oil price jumps in history were perpetrated by speculators , who skirted the rules due to deregulation "pioneered " by Enron , so the energy moguls could do just about anything they wanted to , in steering the energy markets .


These people are hardly on the left .

511 teleskiguy  Fri, Jan 16, 2009 10:53:37pm

Nuclear Iran will f&%# $#@& up royally in the world. I'm surprised North Korea hasn't done anything crazy yet.

512 Westward Ho  Sat, Jan 17, 2009 12:34:26am

re: #379 shane

Shane, sound analysis, I only disagree with one thing neither china nor Russia will risk nuclear conflict with USA over Iran.

513 SpiritOf1683  Sat, Jan 17, 2009 2:54:27am

re: #16 tfc3rid

They will say George Bush didn't do anythign to stop it...


Not just Bush, but every President over the last 30 years dating back to Khomeini's takeover in Iran. We have known about Iran's ambitions since 1979, but nothing has been done about it. Innumerable lines have been drawn in the sand and crossed by the Iranians without any repercussions. Soft power has failed just as absolutely with Iran today as what it did with Nazi Germany 70 years ago. And sometime in the next two or three years, our chickens will come home to roost.


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