Breaking: Bush Commutes Sentences of Border Agents
US News • Views: 2,376
Just in: President Bush has commuted the sentences of border patrol agents Ramos and Compean…
441 comments
7 |
Wyatt Earp Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:01:47am |
Thank you, President Bush. As usual, you did the honorable thing here.
| 8 |
JacksonTn Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:01:53am |
That is one thing I will celebrate during this vomitfest ...thank you Bush for doing the right thing ...
| 9 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:02:16am |
Can't find anything about it on the net yet.
| 10 |
jjmckay1216 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:02:21am |
YES! Best news all year, or at least since Nov 5th
| 11 |
debutaunt Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:02:28am |
Pardoned or commuted? I'll have different levels of joy.
| 13 |
nigella Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:02:46am |
Thank you President Bush you will be greatly missed,at least in my household.God bless and keep you.
| 14 |
NYCHardhat Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:02:57am |
I'm going to miss GWB. We are ALL going to miss this honorable man.
| 15 |
killerjoe Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:02:57am |
Good move. I just can't help but wonder how the msm will spin this.
| 17 |
pink freud Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:03:03am |
re: #7 Wyatt Earp
Thank you, President Bush. As usual, you did the honorable thing here.
Ya'll savor "honor" on this last day of Bush's presidency. We won't be seeing much of this in the next four years.
| 18 |
jaunte Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:03:10am |
Thank you tfk and Mrs. tfk, and everyone else who kept the emails and letters going on this issue.
| 19 |
JammieWearingFool Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:03:19am |
Just heard that on ABC radio news. Can't find a link anywhere.
| 20 |
x-wing Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:03:19am |
I wish this would have been done sooner. But thank you for doing it Pres. Bush.
| 21 |
Occasional Reader Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:03:23am |
re: #11 debutaunt
Pardoned or commuted? I'll have different levels of joy.
They're saying "commuted".
| 22 |
Sharmuta Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:03:33am |
re: #18 jaunte
Thank you tfk and Mrs. tfk, and everyone else who kept the emails and letters going on this issue.
Heros, they are.
| 23 |
Wyatt Earp Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:03:39am |
re: #17 pink freud
Ya'll savor "honor" on this last day of Bush's presidency. We won't be seeing much of this in the next four years.
Sadly, you are correct.
| 24 |
JammieWearingFool Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:03:45am |
| 25 |
jwb7605 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:03:47am |
re: #8 JacksonTn
That is one thing I will celebrate during this vomitfest ...thank you Bush for doing the right thing ...
NEARLY the right thing. I'm hearing on the radio he commuted the sentence. That lets the conviction stand.
Something is better than nothing, but in this case, my glass is half full.
| 26 |
DistantThunder Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:03:56am |
It's snowing here in South Jersey. Maybe 5000 porta- potties will be too many. However, i do believe moonbats will go out in anything.
| 27 |
monkeytime Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:04:25am |
Something to smile about today for a change!
Hat's off to you Presiden Bush!
| 28 |
tex68 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:04:45am |
It's about freaking time!
Thank you, Mr President you have gained some of your respect back.
| 29 |
JacksonTn Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:04:55am |
re: #25 jwb7605
NEARLY the right thing. I'm hearing on the radio he commuted the sentence. That lets the conviction stand.
Something is better than nothing, but in this case, my glass is half full.
Totally agree ...but to their wives and kids ...I bet this is just great today ...
| 30 |
Wyatt Earp Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:05:04am |
re: #25 jwb7605
NEARLY the right thing. I'm hearing on the radio he commuted the sentence. That lets the conviction stand.
Something is better than nothing, but in this case, my glass is half full.
The important thing, in my opinion, is that they will be released from prison and reunited with their families.
| 31 |
pink freud Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:05:05am |
re: #28 tex68
It's about freaking time!
Thank you, Mr President you have gained some of your respect back.
Never lost mine.
| 32 |
Honorary Yooper Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:05:14am |
re: #15 killerjoe
Good move. I just can't help but wonder how the msm will spin this.
MSM: Evil Bush commutes sentences of two convicted in shooting of good, peaceful migrant world citizen.
/
| 33 |
Noam Sayin' Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:05:23am |
Now, for Scooter Libbey. Perhaps later today?
| 34 |
trailortrash Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:05:24am |
Thank God, and Thank You Pres.Bush :salute:
he will be missed.
| 35 |
Pvt Bin Jammin Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:05:28am |
Wow. This new has made my day! Thanks, Mr. President.
| 36 |
Eowyn2 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:05:32am |
the wife of one of them was on Mike Gallagher one afternoon. They wanted the sentences to be commuted rather than pardoned.
Evidently, to pardon is to imply guilt. Whereas, with the commuted sentence, they are able to go home while their lawyers work on the apeals. They want an INNOCENT verdict.
| 38 |
tappin52 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:05:34am |
It was the right thing to do, thank you President Bush.
| 39 |
SasquatchOnSteroids Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:05:47am |
re: #15 killerjoe
Good move. I just can't help but wonder how the msm will spin this.
I'm guessing they'll call it "controversial", but not make much of a fuss since Holder was just up on the hill. Don't want to bring much attention to that, now do we...
| 41 |
pink freud Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:06:08am |
re: #36 Eowyn2
the wife of one of them was on Mike Gallagher one afternoon. They wanted the sentences to be commuted rather than pardoned.
Evidently, to pardon is to imply guilt. Whereas, with the commuted sentence, they are able to go home while their lawyers work on the apeals. They want an INNOCENT verdict.
Good post. Thanks for the perspective.
| 42 |
yochanan Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:06:17am |
commuted isn't a pardon a pardon means you have no record and can take legal action to get legal redress, a commuted sentence just means you get out of jail but you are still considered convicted.
not excellent but better than nothing.
| 43 |
nigella Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:06:19am |
Commuted is fine with me. I agree the conviction stunk, but they were found guilty by a jury, and they did try a cover up. Don't believe they should have been tried in the first place. In view of a jury conviction President Bush had no real choice other than commuting the sentence.
| 44 |
vapig Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:06:20am |
I wish he would have pardoned them, but I'm glad they'll be getting out of jail. They never deserved that!
| 45 |
dennisw Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:06:22am |
RIGHTEOUS!
My opinion of GW has gone up considerably
| 46 |
JammieWearingFool Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:06:22am |
Here's the story, but the headline misleads.
Bush pardons 2 former border guards
President George W. Bush has commuted the prison sentences of two former Border Patrol guards whose convictions for shooting a Mexican drug dealer ignited debate about illegal immigration.Bush's act of clemency on Monday for Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean was a victory for Democratic and Republican members of Congress and others who pleaded with the president to pardon the men or at least commute their sentences.
Ramos and Compean are each serving sentences of more than 10 years for shooting an unarmed illegal immigrant as he was fleeing an abandoned marijuana load in 2005, then trying to cover it up.
| 47 |
jwb7605 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:06:23am |
re: #29 JacksonTn
Totally agree ...but to their wives and kids ...I bet this is just great today ...
Roger that!
How long do you think it will take for somebody to trash their house, and one or both end up back in jail for the crime of protecting their family and property?
... it won't be presented that way, though ...
| 48 |
Honorary Yooper Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:06:26am |
re: #33 Noam Sayin'
Now, for Scooter Libbey. Perhaps later today?
I thought his was already commuted.
| 49 |
debutaunt Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:06:48am |
re: #36 Eowyn2
the wife of one of them was on Mike Gallagher one afternoon. They wanted the sentences to be commuted rather than pardoned.
Evidently, to pardon is to imply guilt. Whereas, with the commuted sentence, they are able to go home while their lawyers work on the apeals. They want an INNOCENT verdict.
EXCELLENT!
| 51 |
Eowyn2 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:07:00am |
re: #25 jwb7605
NEARLY the right thing. I'm hearing on the radio he commuted the sentence. That lets the conviction stand.
Something is better than nothing, but in this case, my glass is half full.
My impression was that by commutation, the case stays open so they can appeal the verdict. A pardon, by its very nature, is a forgiveness of guilt.
| 52 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:07:07am |
Personally, I think commutation was the right thing to do. Like they say, it's not the crime, it's the cover-up.
| 54 |
Noam Sayin' Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:07:15am |
re: #48 Honorary Yooper
That could be, I haven't heard anything, though.
| 55 |
tappin52 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:07:18am |
re: #33 Noam Sayin'
As I understand it, Libby has not requested a pardon, which is a prerequisite.
| 56 |
MandyManners Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:07:18am |
| 57 |
FightingBack Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:07:22am |
Remember Clinton/Holder? They pardoned Mark Rich.
| 58 |
Wyatt Earp Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:07:37am |
| 59 |
notutopia Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:07:37am |
Thank you President Bush! Thank you Congresspersons in Tx!
Thank you to all who helped by sending emails and letters to free Ramos and Compean from prison!
| 60 |
JacksonTn Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:07:52am |
re: #47 jwb7605
Roger that!
How long do you think it will take for somebody to trash their house, and one or both end up back in jail for the crime of protecting their family and property?... it won't be presented that way, though ...
trashing their houses has already happened ...I would get a few very large dogs if I were in their shoes ...
| 62 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:08:02am |
I hope they can get the hell out of purgatory TODAY!
| 63 |
Athos Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:08:08am |
re: #33 Noam Sayin'
Now, for Scooter Libbey. Perhaps later today?
Libby already got a commuted sentence from the President.
| 64 |
dennisw Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:08:11am |
Yeah..... I would have been really angry if GW couldn't find it in himself to free these two fine Border Agents. Maybe GW was afraid that if he didn't do it 0bama would
| 65 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:08:24am |
| 66 |
Sharmuta Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:08:24am |
re: #46 JammieWearingFool
Here's the story, but the headline misleads.
Accuracy and fact checking from the msm? Those are things I no longer expect, so a misleading headline is par for the course.
| 67 |
pat Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:08:39am |
Pardoned= record cleared
Commuted=Still Felons, but get out of jail
Under any circumstances Bush was a bit cowardly here. I suspect the District Attorney for Texas gave the Justice Department a song and dance. But why would anyone take the word of a drug dealer in the first place. At most these guys should have been convicted of false reporting.
| 68 |
jwb7605 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:08:40am |
re: #60 JacksonTn
trashing their houses has already happened ...I would get a few very large dogs if I were in their shoes ...
That's what I was referring to. This time there will be somebody physically able to defend them.
| 69 |
Wyatt Earp Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:08:49am |
re: #64 dennisw
Yeah..... I would have been really angry if GW couldn't find it in himself to free these two fine Border Agents. Maybe GW was afraid that if he didn't do it 0bama would
NO WAY Obama would have done this. No way in Hell.
| 70 |
mean Gene Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:09:14am |
Does this mean they get out of prison?
I'd sure love to hear from these two.
Best news of the day.
| 71 |
Sharmuta Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:09:22am |
re: #36 Eowyn2
the wife of one of them was on Mike Gallagher one afternoon. They wanted the sentences to be commuted rather than pardoned.
Evidently, to pardon is to imply guilt. Whereas, with the commuted sentence, they are able to go home while their lawyers work on the apeals. They want an INNOCENT verdict.
Thank you- that explains it.
| 72 |
Ford_Prefect Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:09:39am |
About freakin' time!
Good Afternoon Lizards!
| 73 |
vapig Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:10:00am |
re: #36 Eowyn2
the wife of one of them was on Mike Gallagher one afternoon. They wanted the sentences to be commuted rather than pardoned.
Evidently, to pardon is to imply guilt. Whereas, with the commuted sentence, they are able to go home while their lawyers work on the apeals. They want an INNOCENT verdict.
Thank you! I had no idea about this perspective. I also wish for their convictions to be overturned.
| 74 |
monkeytime Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:10:19am |
Well it will sure be hard for the media to put too much coverage on this because that would take the attention off O for 30 seconds and that is just not done.
| 76 |
Noam Sayin' Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:10:30am |
re: #63 Athos
Libby already got a commuted sentence from the President.
When did this happen? I remember people just within the last few weeks imploring Pres. Bush to pardon Libbey.
| 78 |
dennisw Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:10:42am |
Libby is doing just fine
He was never thrown in prison
Of course him being indicted was ridiculous seeing how the prosecutor knew Richard Armitage was the leaker on the fake secret agent Valerie Plame
| 79 |
Ford_Prefect Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:10:49am |
| 80 |
LeePro Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:10:58am |
Free at last!
Thank God Almighty, free at last!
| 81 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:11:04am |
re: #76 Noam Sayin'
When did this happen? I remember people just within the last few weeks imploring Pres. Bush to pardon Libbey.
Right after his conviction.
| 82 |
redstateredneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:11:24am |
re: #11 debutaunt
Pardoned or commuted? I'll have different levels of joy.
I'd much rather have seen a pardon, but at least they'll be out.
| 83 |
bellamags Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:11:24am |
re: #14 NYCHardhat
I'm going to miss GWB. We are ALL going to miss this honorable man.
I cried during his farewell address. I just want to hug him.
| 84 |
Athos Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:11:31am |
| 85 |
midwestgak Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:11:40am |
Thanks Mr. President and Glenn Beck. He worked his ass off to get the message out.
| 86 |
pink freud Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:11:45am |
Rush discussing the Ayers/Canada thing.
"Canceled until the university can sneak Ayers back across the border"
| 87 |
bellamags Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:11:47am |
| 90 |
dennisw Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:12:09am |
Ramos and Compean were commuted with time served. Let go with time served. I think that will be the phraseology
| 92 |
pat Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:12:19am |
Indeed. Not only was Ramos house trashed, but all the gas turned on and the pilot lights off. Only the quick wit of Ms Ramos prevented her son from flipping the light switch. No word yet if the Feds are investigating./
| 93 |
killerjoe Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:12:24am |
re: #79 Ford_Prefect
It's the left coast if you are in canada looking south.
| 94 |
NYCHardhat Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:12:38am |
re: #83 bellamags
I cried during his farewell address. I just want to hug him.
I know what you mean hun.
| 96 |
jcbunga Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:12:41am |
Great news...and one a future Attorney General won't have to explain.
| 97 |
rwmofo Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:12:44am |
This is great. Who could realistically protest this (well, except maybe the guy who they shot in the ass)?
| 98 |
cathypop Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:12:48am |
That is the most wonderful new I have heard in ages. Makes all the fawning over the O disappear
| 100 |
Noam Sayin' Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:13:14am |
| 101 |
gregg Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:13:31am |
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but why do presidents wait for the last minute to issue pardons? I guess I could see waiting until after the November elections, but why the last day in office?
| 102 |
zombie Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:13:41am |
Just in: President Bush has commuted the sentences of border patrol agents Ramos and Compean...
I'm so glad Bush did this.
I'm not particularly involved in the whole immigration issue, and never report on immigration protests and events, but...
This specific case greatly disturbed me, because of the factual details of the incident. Totally aside from one's stance on immigration, these two officers were unfairly imprisoned -- for purely political reasons. A governmental lynch mob mentality.
Bush should have pardoned them long ago, but I suspected that if he was going to do it, it would be on his final day. A nice parting gesture.
| 103 |
lawhawk Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:13:47am |
re: #72 Ford_Prefect
He had to wait until the process was carried out. Justice has to run its course, and the regulations governing the office of the pardon attorney have to be followed, including sufficient time to review the cases, and for final judgments to be entered by the respective federal courts.
| 104 |
jwb7605 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:13:52am |
re: #65 pre-Boomer Marine brat
See this.
You'd already moved over here when I put it up on the prior thread.
I replied to your first question yesterday, after I'd watched the football game.
I didn't really know anybody in 212 -- their line shack was separate. I "knew" a couple of guys by their faces, but that was about it. Once I made E-5, I was (by rule) placed in the AQ shack (my final cruise).
I may have had an adult beverage with several of them on liberty, but you know how that goes.
Speaking of football games, did you catch the hit late in the Steelers-Raven game? I haven't heard anything about injuries, but wow, what a (clean!) hit. Cardinals have no chance, in my opinion.
| 105 |
Ford_Prefect Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:14:16am |
re: #93 killerjoe
It's the left coast if you are in canada looking south.
Why would I want to do that?
/
| 106 |
rightside Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:14:18am |
Have the koskids or huffposters exploded yet? I can't stand to go to those sites.
| 107 |
NeoKong Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:14:21am |
It's about time.What the hell took so long?
What happened to those two men was an absolute disgrace and a slap in the face to all the border enforcement agents.
| 108 |
HippieforLife Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:14:34am |
I am sure their families are so happy! I heard their wives speak on Laura Ingraham on Friday.
I am thrilled that these men will be free.
| 109 |
kawfytawk Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:14:35am |
re: #100 Noam Sayin'
To be honest, I didn't know either, found it on a google search when I was trying to learn the difference between commute and pardon :O)
| 110 |
snowcrash Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:14:40am |
I am amazed but so pleased. 10 and 12 year sentences were ridiculous. Let them out RIGHT NOW with time served.
| 111 |
rwmofo Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:14:40am |
re: #101 gregg
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but why do presidents wait for the last minute to issue pardons? I guess I could see waiting until after the November elections, but why the last day in office?
So they don't have to listen to idiotic crap from stoopid reporters--like in a press conference--while they're still president.
| 112 |
vapig Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:14:43am |
re: #48 Honorary Yooper
I thought his was already commuted.
He was and for the same reason Eowyn pointed out - so his attorney can get his conviction overturned on appeal. A pardon screws that up.
| 113 |
MandyManners Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:14:46am |
re: #36 Eowyn2
the wife of one of them was on Mike Gallagher one afternoon. They wanted the sentences to be commuted rather than pardoned.
Evidently, to pardon is to imply guilt. Whereas, with the commuted sentence, they are able to go home while their lawyers work on the apeals. They want an INNOCENT verdict.
| 114 |
Ford_Prefect Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:14:53am |
re: #87 bellamags
welcome back.
Hello. Yeah, ended up going out to the field to do absolutely nothing. Grrr.
| 115 |
lawhawk Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:14:58am |
This is a full and complete list of Bush's pardons through March 2008. Not included are the last batch in December (including that disputed revocation of a pardon).
| 116 |
Wyatt Earp Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:15:02am |
re: #104 jwb7605
I replied to your first question yesterday, after I'd watched the football game.
I didn't really know anybody in 212 -- their line shack was separate. I "knew" a couple of guys by their faces, but that was about it. Once I made E-5, I was (by rule) placed in the AQ shack (my final cruise).I may have had an adult beverage with several of them on liberty, but you know how that goes.
Speaking of football games, did you catch the hit late in the Steelers-Raven game? I haven't heard anything about injuries, but wow, what a (clean!) hit. Cardinals have no chance, in my opinion.
The Falcons thought that. The Panthers thought that. The Eagles thought that. Do not underestimate the Cardinals.
| 117 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:15:16am |
re: #101 gregg
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but why do presidents wait for the last minute to issue pardons? I guess I could see waiting until after the November elections, but why the last day in office?
They issue pardons/commutations along the way but you don't always hear about them. They often save some controversial ones till the very end so they don't have to take to much crap for them.
| 119 |
NYCHardhat Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:15:22am |
re: #113 MandyManners
the wife of one of them was on Mike Gallagher one afternoon. They wanted the sentences to be commuted rather than pardoned.
Evidently, to pardon is to imply guilt. Whereas, with the commuted sentence, they are able to go home while their lawyers work on the apeals. They want an INNOCENT verdict.
as they should get it.
| 120 |
Sharmuta Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:15:30am |
re: #101 gregg
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but why do presidents wait for the last minute to issue pardons? I guess I could see waiting until after the November elections, but why the last day in office?
Not sure but I would guess because 1) it's their last chance, 2) and fall out is usually swept under the rug due to the events of the next day (the inauguration).
| 121 |
Athos Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:15:33am |
re: #78 dennisw
The fact that Plame and Wilson committed perjury, that Armitage and Powell knew the truth and details yet did not have the moral conviction to step up is just another series of examples of not only their intellectual and moral bankruptcy, but of their willingness to sabotage the government for political gains.
They are lionized just like that pinhead - Mark Felt, aka 'Deep Throat', who not only violated numerous laws, but in partnership with the Washington Post and other elements of the MSM, conducted a coup just because his ego was damaged by being passed over for the Director FBI position after Hoover's death.
| 122 |
The Other Les Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:15:40am |
About F***ing time.
| 124 |
bellamags Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:16:03am |
re: #114 Ford_Prefect
Hello. Yeah, ended up going out to the field to do absolutely nothing. Grrr.
waste of LGF time. damn the luck. ; )
| 125 |
Ford_Prefect Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:16:10am |
re: #103 lawhawk
Well, I am just glad it is happening, whatever the reasoning. These men didn't deserve any of this stuff.
| 126 |
RubyTuesday Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:16:30am |
I jumped up and down, cheered loudly, and cried.
My dog is currently drawing up papers to have me committed.
Thank you (for one more thing), Mr. President!
| 127 |
vapig Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:16:37am |
| 128 |
tex68 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:16:37am |
re: #31 pink freud
Never lost mine.
He did when he expanded the federal government and Republicans spent like drunkin sailors. This is why we lost control of the House and Senate in 2004 and 2008.
Other than that I think he is an honorable man.
| 129 |
Sharmuta Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:16:41am |
re: #103 lawhawk
He had to wait until the process was carried out. Justice has to run its course, and the regulations governing the office of the pardon attorney have to be followed, including sufficient time to review the cases, and for final judgments to be entered by the respective federal courts.
Thanks, lawhawk!
| 130 |
dennisw Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:16:47am |
Glenn Beck was relentless.
So were a few Representatives especially Dana Rohrabacher of California
No Senators, they are all useless
It seemed to me GW Bush loved every Mexican on this planet expect for these two Mexican/American border agents. Thank God they are getting out. Hopefully they write books and make some money they deserve
| 131 |
Athos Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:16:48am |
re: #86 pink freud
Rush discussing the Ayers/Canada thing.
"Canceled until the university can sneak Ayers back across the border"
I wonder how long it will be before the Human Rights Commission of Canada will charge the Canadian Immigration authorities for their violation of a terrorists rights.
| 132 |
Marvo76 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:17:02am |
re: #28 tex68
It's about freaking time!
Thank you, Mr President you have gained some of your respect back.
I second that motion, it has to be the bright spot in this whole week...
| 133 |
realwest Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:17:23am |
re: #66 Sharmuta
Accuracy?
"Bush pardons 2 former border guards
By DEB RIECHMANN – 16 minutes ago
WASHINGTON (AP) — President George W. Bush has commuted the prison sentences of two former Border Patrol guards whose convictions for shooting a Mexican drug dealer ignited debate about illegal immigration.
Bush's act of clemency on Monday for Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean was a victory for Democratic and Republican members of Congress and others who pleaded with the president to pardon the men or at least commute their sentences."
Emphasis added realwest
Do you know any Democrat congresscritters who were pushing for this?
| 134 |
jwb7605 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:17:25am |
re: #116 Wyatt Earp
The Falcons thought that. The Panthers thought that. The Eagles thought that. Do not underestimate the Cardinals.
I'm not. I don't think the Cards have seen a pass rush like that, though. I think the Cardinals will build a decent lead, and see that wither away as the game goes on. 4th quarter will be decisive, and my bet is the Cardinals will be totally worn out.
| 136 |
killerjoe Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:17:25am |
re: #105 Ford_Prefect
I don't know, but I just thougt it was an impotent fact to point out. Anyway, today is a great day for justice.
| 138 |
subsailor68 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:17:59am |
There's an interesting chapter in Casey Tefertiller's biography of Wyatt Earp titled "Law versus Order." In the case of these two border patrol officers, the title seems to fit.
The border is in chaos. These two officers were hired to restore, and maintain order. In the process they shot a drug dealer in the ass.
On the other hand, the "law" out there gave the drug dealer immunity, and it appears, looked the other way when he went back to work doing the same old, same old.
So, law versus order. These agents, while they shouldn't have tried to cover up aspects of the situation, get my vote in this case.
To achieve law AND order, a third element must exist: justice. I'm not sure we've reached justice in this case, but at least we're closer.
| 139 |
Wyatt Earp Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:18:00am |
re: #133 realwest
Accuracy?
"Bush pardons 2 former border guards
By DEB RIECHMANN – 16 minutes agoWASHINGTON (AP) — President George W. Bush has commuted the prison sentences of two former Border Patrol guards whose convictions for shooting a Mexican drug dealer ignited debate about illegal immigration.
Bush's act of clemency on Monday for Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean was a victory for Democratic and Republican members of Congress and others who pleaded with the president to pardon the men or at least commute their sentences."
Emphasis added realwest
Do you know any Democrat congresscritters who were pushing for this?
I do not know of any Dems who were pushing for this. None.
| 141 |
Occasional Reader Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:18:27am |
This is just a blatant attempt by BusHitler to distract the American people from the miraculously historical history-making miracle of The Coming of The One.
| 143 |
kiwiviv Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:18:48am |
Can't wait for the Fiskie award winners to start freaking out over this.
As for mer....I am ecstatic!
| 144 |
Marvo76 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:18:54am |
re: #47 jwb7605
Roger that!
How long do you think it will take for somebody to trash their house, and one or both end up back in jail for the crime of protecting their family and property?... it won't be presented that way, though ...
One of their houses was trashed last week saw it on WND....
| 145 |
tex68 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:18:54am |
re: #85 midwestgak
Thanks Mr. President and Glenn Beck. He worked his ass off to get the message out.
Yes, Glen had a huge part...Glen was the reason I wrote my Senators and House Members. Thanks Glen, you are truly a Great American!
| 146 |
bellamags Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:19:01am |
re: #137 NYCHardhat
LGF opinion poll - Do you think the general public will get sick of hearing about Obama and his supernatural abilities to make everything right with the world?
| 148 |
mikalm Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:19:08am |
Thank you Mr. President!
I hope my email to the White House last month suggesting a pardon for these two agents as a "Christmas gift" for them and their families made a small part in his decision.
| 149 |
tex68 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:19:16am |
| 151 |
Wyatt Earp Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:19:23am |
| 153 |
unreconstructed rebel Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:19:36am |
| 154 |
Ford_Prefect Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:19:38am |
re: #124 bellamags
waste of LGF time. damn the luck. ; )
Exactly. At least it wasn't as bad as the other field crew that drove all the way to Providence, RI, about an hour and half to two hours away, just to be told that they can't get on site. They were supposed to be there all week.
| 155 |
kiwiviv Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:19:46am |
| 156 |
Marvo76 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:19:53am |
re: #60 JacksonTn
trashing their houses has already happened ...I would get a few very large dogs if I were in their shoes ...
they hurt the family dog when they trashed it according to the article I read...
| 157 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:20:04am |
re: #104 jwb7605
I replied to your first question yesterday, after I'd watched the football game.
I didn't really know anybody in 212 -- their line shack was separate. I "knew" a couple of guys by their faces, but that was about it. Once I made E-5, I was (by rule) placed in the AQ shack (my final cruise).I may have had an adult beverage with several of them on liberty, but you know how that goes.
Speaking of football games, did you catch the hit late in the Steelers-Raven game? I haven't heard anything about injuries, but wow, what a (clean!) hit. Cardinals have no chance, in my opinion.
Yeah, I saw your football-delayed response. If you didn't know any of them by name, then my question's moot. I'd remembered that this fellow (who visited me several years later) had told me of the F-8 crash. Said the engine would up in the port side-forward gun sponson.
Re the late hit, no. I haven't followed football since the Cowboys canned Landry.
| 158 |
redstateredneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:20:08am |
| 160 |
NYCHardhat Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:20:18am |
re: #146 bellamags
LGF opinion poll - Do you think the general public will get sick of hearing about Obama and his supernatural abilities to make everything right with the world?
my vote in: give it 2 years.
| 161 |
Fat Jolly Penguin Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:20:36am |
| 162 |
bellamags Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:20:40am |
re: #142 buzzsawmonkey
Buzz - do you have time to be a part time columnist?
| 163 |
Nevergiveup Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:20:49am |
Their prison sentences will now expire on March 20 of this year.
[Link: michellemalkin.com...]
Lawyers--why do they have to stay in prison till March 20th?
| 164 |
JammieWearingFool Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:20:51am |
MSM: We apologize for this brief interruption. Now back to our 24/7 orgasmic frenzy over Him.
| 165 |
MandyManners Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:20:51am |
| 166 |
Dianna Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:20:57am |
I'd have preferred a pardon, but I'll take what I can get.
| 167 |
realwest Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:21:08am |
re: #139 Wyatt Earp
Nope, me either.
But I do know that we all owe TFK a round of applause - he's been in the middle of this fight for those two border guards and deserves at least a nod of recognition for what he's done!
| 169 |
Kaptain Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:21:18am |
re: #146 bellamags
LGF opinion poll - Do you think the general public will get sick of hearing about Obama and his supernatural abilities to make everything right with the world?
When do you think the general public will get sick of hearing about Obama and his supernatural abilities to make everything right within the world?
/fixed it for ya.
| 170 |
Eowyn2 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:21:19am |
re: #97 rwmofo
This is great. Who could realistically protest this (well, except maybe the guy who they shot in the ass)?
all of ms13
| 171 |
Dirk Diggler Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:21:19am |
President Bush may want to pardon himself and Dick Cheney while he's at it.
| 173 |
Ford_Prefect Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:21:33am |
| 174 |
Sharmuta Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:21:36am |
re: #166 Dianna
I'd have preferred a pardon, but I'll take what I can get.
See #36- this move makes sense.
| 175 |
killerjoe Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:21:41am |
re: #139 Wyatt Earp
My original comment was I wonder what the msm spill will be? So there you have it. Perhaps the msm will claim that uncle hussien was responsible for it. Then crissy can get another tingle up his leg.
| 176 |
NYCHardhat Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:22:04am |
| 177 |
bellamags Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:22:09am |
re: #154 Ford_Prefect
Exactly. At least it wasn't as bad as the other field crew that drove all the way to Providence, RI, about an hour and half to two hours away, just to be told that they can't get on site. They were supposed to be there all week.
sux. Is it weather related?
| 178 |
Ford_Prefect Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:22:10am |
re: #146 bellamags
LGF opinion poll - Do you think the general public will get sick of hearing about Obama and his supernatural abilities to make everything right with the world?
I know I am already.
| 179 |
Occasional Reader Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:22:20am |
re: #165 MandyManners
It's twue. It's twue.
Double-upding (which I can't actually give) for the timely Blazing Saddles reference.
| 180 |
redstateredneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:22:21am |
re: #167 realwest
Nope, me either.
But I do know that we all owe TFK a round of applause - he's been in the middle of this fight for those two border guards and deserves at least a nod of recognition for what he's done!
You got that right.
*nod* to tfk!
| 181 |
snowgardendream Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:22:40am |
Thank goodness this has been resolved for these brave men.
| 182 |
subsailor68 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:22:53am |
| 183 |
dennisw Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:22:57am |
re: #121 Athos
Powell and Armitage got their revenge on GW by allowing the Plame turmoil to go on for months. People like Chris Matthews are so ideologically blinded they are probably still blaming Lewis Libby and the nefarious Dick Cheney
The Plame affair hurt Republicans and Bush.
It was death of a thousand cuts via the drive by media
At the end Colin Powell showed his true colors by voting 0bama
Armitage=low life pond scum
| 184 |
vapig Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:23:02am |
re: #142 buzzsawmonkey
He's already aping Carter.
Where's his cardigan? It's *bleeping* freezing here!
| 185 |
bellamags Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:23:11am |
re: #173 Ford_Prefect
Hmm. I would have thought that was above his pay grade.
HA - that would be a good compare and contrast anti-Obama vid.
| 186 |
tex68 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:23:33am |
re: #139 Wyatt Earp
I do not know of any Dems who were pushing for this. None.
the drive by media...don't you just love them. And when BO's sworn in it will be all Sunshine and Roses!
107mill for festives what happen to the crisis?
| 187 |
doppelganglander Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:23:48am |
re: #146 bellamags
LGF opinion poll - Do you think the general public will get sick of hearing about Obama and his supernatural abilities to make everything right with the world?
Undoubtedly. Or more accurately, after a couple of months they'll notice we are not living on the Big Rock Candy Mountain and become angry and resentful.
| 188 |
bellamags Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:23:55am |
| 189 |
unreconstructed rebel Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:24:04am |
re: #182 subsailor68
I saw that article this morning. If Conyer and Pelosi prevail, I fear for the future of this great Country. They're the ones who need to be sitting in front of the committees.
Could prove to be a distraction.
| 190 |
jwb7605 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:24:05am |
re: #157 pre-Boomer Marine brat
Yeah, I saw your football-delayed response. If you didn't know any of them by name, then my question's moot. I'd remembered that this fellow (who visited me several years later) had told me of the F-8 crash. Said the engine would up in the port side-forward gun sponson.
Re the late hit, no. I haven't followed football since the Cowboys canned Landry.
The engine ... didn't know that?
Did the guy ever tell you about the pilot that punched out where the drogue chute deployed, the main chute hadn't quite, and the pilot ended up coming down on the port side of the ship, legs between the railing?
It split the pilot damn near all the way to his navel!
Pilot, believe it or not, "fully recovered".
| 192 |
MandyManners Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:24:27am |
re: #186 tex68
the drive by media...don't you just love them. And when BO's sworn in it will be all Sunshine and Roses!
107mill for festives what happen to the crisis?
It's not our money. Rich moonbats are picking up the tab.
| 193 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:24:35am |
In a comment above, with a quote from a story, it said Democrats and Republicans were asking for some action on this.
Which Democrats?
| 194 |
redstateredneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:24:35am |
re: #187 doppelganglander
Undoubtedly. Or more accurately, after a couple of months they'll notice we are not living on the Big Rock Candy Mountain and become angry and resentful.
No more "unicorns shitting rainbows"?
| 195 |
realwest Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:24:40am |
re: #180 redstateredneck
Hey thanks {red} - TFK does deserve some recongition for helping out on this. And not just on LGF either.
| 196 |
VetteMan Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:24:52am |
Finally! I was getting worried. This was one of the handful of things I've disagreed with Bush on. I believe they deserve a full pardon, but a commuting is better than nothing. Thank you, Mr. President!
| 197 |
Ford_Prefect Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:24:58am |
re: #177 bellamags
sux. Is it weather related?
No. Just a major lack of communication from the client.
| 200 |
subsailor68 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:25:15am |
re: #189 unreconstructed rebel
Could prove to be a distraction.
Well, if it distracts them from passing more spending bills, or passing crap like national health care, maybe it'd be worth it.
| 201 |
experiencedtraveller Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:25:29am |
I hope Bush pardons Noah for killing all those dinosaurs...
| 202 |
Dianna Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:25:31am |
re: #156 Marvo76
they hurt the family dog when they trashed it according to the article I read...
Low lives!
| 204 |
redstateredneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:25:32am |
re: #193 Walter L. Newton
In a comment above, with a quote from a story, it said Democrats and Republicans were asking for some action on this.
Which Democrats?
Prol'ly the ones with Hispanic constituents.
| 206 |
abolitionist Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:25:50am |
A presidential PARDON would have been entirely righteous. As it is, these men stand convicted, no? Perhaps if they had declared war on their own country instead of defending it...
On second thought, better not go there. Live with it George.
| 207 |
Eowyn2 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:26:09am |
re: #159 jwb7605
Cool. Did he learn that by "tagging"?
what does a halfway house for runaways have to do with Martil Luther King ?
| 209 |
x-wing Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:26:20am |
re: #182 subsailor68
I saw that article this morning. If Conyer and Pelosi prevail, I fear for the future of this great Country. They're the ones who need to be sitting in front of the committees.
And that's why I don't see it happening. Pelosi knew all about the enhanced interrogation techniques, she even asked if they were harsh enough.
Go ahead rats, put Bush and Cheney on trail. Just becareful what you wish for.
| 210 |
Ford_Prefect Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:26:21am |
| 211 |
Kaptain Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:26:57am |
re: #192 MandyManners
It's not our money. Rich moonbats are picking up the tab.
And hopefully some enterprising conservatives are facilitating a transfer of wealth...
| 212 |
subsailor68 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:27:06am |
re: #192 MandyManners
It's not our money. Rich moonbats are picking up the tab.
I've heard that. Have you happened to see any breakdown of subscriptions/donations versus tax dollars anywhere? (I mean, is the extra security cost all borne by donations, or are tax dollars involved there.)
| 213 |
Marvo76 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:27:11am |
re: #160 NYCHardhat
my vote in: give it 2 years.
I don't give it that long, but to be honest, I look for someone to try to take him out by June, Not that I want to see it, but they are already watching the White supremes closely, I don't think it will be by a domestic though, I look for a foriegn agent to do the deed. Either way I pray for the Secret service who have to gaurd him, they will be working overtime for their whole tour.....however long it lasts....
| 214 |
FightingBack Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:27:14am |
Inspired by the upcoming Inauguration of President of the World, the outgoing Bush freed two people being held in prison.
/
| 215 |
gadlaw Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:27:26am |
About freaking time. They shouldn't have been prosecuted in the first place.
| 216 |
jwb7605 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:27:28am |
re: #207 Eowyn2
what does a halfway house for runaways have to do with Martil Luther King ?
I saw the picture of Obama with the paint broom and that was my first thought.
No offense intended to the rest.
| 217 |
dennisw Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:27:35am |
LGF opinion poll - Do you think the general public will get sick of hearing about Obama and his supernatural abilities to make everything right with the world?
I'm avoiding all radio and TV tomorrow. As much as possible.
0bama administration will be non stop speechifying and hot air pushing people into accepting a lousy economy because 0bama is hard at work solving the mess he inherited. 0bama will deliver FDR style rhetoric non-stop which will be trumped by the stooge media
Their will be a constant drumbeat to accept 0's socialist solutions to all that ails us
| 218 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:27:37am |
re: #190 jwb7605
The engine ... didn't know that?
Did the guy ever tell you about the pilot that punched out where the drogue chute deployed, the main chute hadn't quite, and the pilot ended up coming down on the port side of the ship, legs between the railing?
It split the pilot damn near all the way to his navel!
Pilot, believe it or not, "fully recovered".
OUCH! No, he didn't.
I'm sure I leaned on that section of railing at some point, wherever it was along that catwalk.
| 219 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:27:41am |
re: #205 realwest
NONE - see my #133 above.
Your #133 didn't answer my question. Or do you know it was "none" as a fact?
| 220 |
unreconstructed rebel Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:27:45am |
re: #200 subsailor68
Well, if it distracts them from passing more spending bills, or passing crap like national health care, maybe it'd be worth it.
The good news is George is tough enough (not that I would wish it.) But, wouldn't it be funny if that turned out to be his revenge, to get that bunch chasing the wrong rabbit?
| 221 |
subsailor68 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:28:30am |
re: #209 x-wing
And that's why I don't see it happening. Pelosi knew all about the enhanced interrogation techniques, she even asked if they were harsh enough.
Go ahead rats, put Bush and Cheney on trail. Just becareful what you wish for.
I sure hope you're right, and they just drop it.
| 222 |
notutopia Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:28:42am |
re: #192 MandyManners
It's not our money. Rich moonbats are picking up the tab.
The Secret Obama List of Funding Contributors is revealed!
[Link: proteinwisdom.com...]
| 223 |
lawhawk Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:29:02am |
re: #133 realwest
Yes, there was bipartisan support for a commutation or pardon:
Four congressmen – Democrats William Delahunt of Massachusetts and Silvestre Reyes of Texas, and Republicans Dana Rohrabacher of California and Ted Poe of Texas – signed a letter to President Bush asking him to commute the sentences of Ramos and Compean.The letter represents a direct bipartisan appeal to Bush to act now on behalf of Ramos and Compean, in the hope the two men could be home with their families for Christmas.
Delahunt, Rohrabacher and Poe earlier sponsored House Concurrent Resolution 267 asking the House to petition President Bush to grant clemency in the case. It now has 37 Democrats and several dozen Republicans as sponsors.
| 226 |
LeePro Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:30:01am |
re: #75 killerjoe
Good afternoon? iT'S 10 AM.
NEWSFLASH ! ! !
The world does not revolve around YOU, killerjoe!
| 227 |
realwest Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:30:06am |
re: #171 Dirk Diggler
To hell with Nancy Pelosi - she and Conyers are the LAST ones to want any memeber of government investigated for criminal wrong doings - btw, Nancy, how'd that trip to Syria work out for ya?
| 228 |
Eowyn2 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:30:15am |
re: #212 subsailor68
I've heard that. Have you happened to see any breakdown of subscriptions/donations versus tax dollars anywhere? (I mean, is the extra security cost all borne by donations, or are tax dollars involved there.)
extra security, extra trips for the city trashmen, extra power & light peoples, extra road workers. Lots of extras on the gvmt payroll.
| 229 |
tex68 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:30:24am |
re: #160 NYCHardhat
my vote in: give it 2 years.
Depend on how the media plays it. The media has already set the bar so low that any improve will be seen as an enormous step forward an the majority of Americas will buy it.
| 230 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:30:31am |
re: #133 realwest
Do you know any Democrat congresscritters who were pushing for this?
re: #139 Wyatt Earp
I do not know of any Dems who were pushing for this. None.
Rahm Emmanuel was one [scroll to bottom]:
If Bush's term expires without his acting on the case, then it's possible the Obama administration might consider it. Rahm Emanuel, Obama's chief of staff, was among the more than 100 U.S. lawmakers who signed House Resolution 563 in support of a congressional pardon for the two men; the entire House has not voted on the proposal.
| 232 |
ladycatnip Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:30:46am |
Late to this thread so haven't read all the posts, but I'm wondering if by commuting their sentences it means they could possibly face more grief and legal expenses. Since they were found guilty in a court of law, wouldn't a pardon cut off any future civil litigation by the drug runners?
| 233 |
Occasional Reader Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:30:47am |
re: #191 buzzsawmonkey
The orgy of race-based Obama-related drivel on NPR is flowing
You're listening to this on NPR?!
And here I thought Jews didn't do the concept of "penance"!
| 234 |
subsailor68 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:30:52am |
re: #220 unreconstructed rebel
The good news is George is tough enough (not that I would wish it.) But, wouldn't it be funny if that turned out to be his revenge, to get that bunch chasing the wrong rabbit?
Oh yeah, he's tough enough. If it ended as you hope - rabbit-wise - at least there'd be some justice.
| 235 |
Ford_Prefect Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:31:13am |
| 237 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:31:43am |
re: #223 lawhawk
Yes, there was bipartisan support for a commutation or pardon:
Thanks Lawhawk, that answers my question. That's why I asked, we can't assume that the info in the article is wrong or misleading.
| 238 |
NYCHardhat Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:31:49am |
| 239 |
redstateredneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:31:52am |
| 240 |
subsailor68 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:32:03am |
re: #228 Eowyn2
extra security, extra trips for the city trashmen, extra power & light peoples, extra road workers. Lots of extras on the gvmt payroll.
Thanks, that's kinda what I thought. Figured donations etc. would fund the balls, dinners, and so on.
| 241 |
jwb7605 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:32:11am |
re: #218 pre-Boomer Marine brat
OUCH! No, he didn't.
I'm sure I leaned on that section of railing at some point, wherever it was along that catwalk.
One other question: Did he ever tell you about the storm we went through on the way to Japan for liberty call? Took off all catwalks on the port side. We got an extra week, because they decided to also replace the flight deck lumber and re-asphalt.
If he told you about that, you're also talking to the guy who discovered it. Midnight watch, and I almost got in trouble for coming up the officer's stairway. I was forgiven, of course, for that minor transgression.
| 242 |
NYCHardhat Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:32:37am |
re: #239 redstateredneck
"Hope for the future". It says it right there in the article.
;-)
I need to grab a scotch.
| 243 |
cathypop Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:32:57am |
| 244 |
redstateredneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:33:09am |
| 246 |
Dirk Diggler Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:33:23am |
buzzsawmonkey,
The orgy of race-based Obama-related drivel on NPR is flowing
Any conservative or anti-idiotarian who regularly listens to NPR must be a masochist.
| 247 |
midwestgak Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:33:36am |
| 248 |
doppelganglander Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:33:49am |
re: #194 redstateredneck
No more "unicorns shitting rainbows"?
Wow, you've got a good memory. Apparently there's a waiting list, the same as for a coupon for your digital TV converter box.
| 251 |
realwest Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:34:43am |
re: #223 lawhawk Well, without going into the veracity of WND, I do note that the link is date December 22, 2007.
Methinks much stronger pressure has been brought to bear on this since then - and it may indeed have been a bi-partisan effort, but I'd be astounded if it wasn't in fact led by Republicans.
| 252 |
redstateredneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:34:45am |
re: #248 doppelganglander
Wow, you've got a good memory. Apparently there's a waiting list, the same as for a coupon for your digital TV converter box.
How could I forget such a descriptive phrase? It's perfect!
| 253 |
notutopia Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:34:52am |
| 254 |
loppyd Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:35:21am |
re: #246 Dirk Diggler
buzzsawmonkey,
Any conservative or anti-idiotarian who regularly listens to NPR must be a masochist.
That would be me before Laura Ingraham came back on the air in Boston.
| 255 |
freedomnut Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:35:44am |
FINALLY!
Really irked me that neither BHO or McCain mentioned their names in their campaigns.
| 257 |
Eowyn2 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:36:17am |
| 258 |
loppyd Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:36:22am |
re: #253 notutopia
It is awesome.
How are you feeling?
Better, thanks. The BF is now couch ridden with the same thing, though.
| 259 |
tfc3rid Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:37:08am |
And if he did not do it, it would never have happened... Tomorrow marks the beginning of our time as Citizens of the World. Ramos and Campeon are one of the last gasps of all we believe in...
| 260 |
NYCHardhat Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:37:08am |
re: #257 Eowyn2
evidently not for anything to do with Bill Ayers who cant go to Canada.
His world approval rating is 90% because he is a toothless dog.
| 261 |
loppyd Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:37:10am |
re: #256 redstateredneck
loppyd feel bad?
:-(
I'm on the mend - had a head cold and the flu. It was lovely.
| 262 |
jwb7605 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:37:11am |
re: #251 realwest
Well, without going into the veracity of WND, I do note that the link is date December 22, 2007.
Methinks much stronger pressure has been brought to bear on this since then - and it may indeed have been a bi-partisan effort, but I'd be astounded if it wasn't in fact led by Republicans.
I've even heard Bob Beckel call for a pardon.
The issue transcended politics.
| 263 |
bellamags Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:37:22am |
| 264 |
notutopia Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:37:31am |
re: #258 loppyd
Better, thanks. The BF is now couch ridden with the same thing, though.
Yech. At least ya'll are safe in each others company.
Mutual admiration society!
| 265 |
Eowyn2 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:37:41am |
re: #232 ladycatnip
Late to this thread so haven't read all the posts, but I'm wondering if by commuting their sentences it means they could possibly face more grief and legal expenses. Since they were found guilty in a court of law, wouldn't a pardon cut off any future civil litigation by the drug runners?
see number 36
it is what the families wanted.
| 267 |
prince of dorkness Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:38:08am |
A BP agent friend of mine who has worked with both Ramos and Compean, said that what they did happens all the time. The question in my mind, is why they were prosecuted in the first place?
| 268 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:38:15am |
re: #241 jwb7605
One other question: Did he ever tell you about the storm we went through on the way to Japan for liberty call? Took off all catwalks on the port side. We got an extra week, because they decided to also replace the flight deck lumber and re-asphalt.
If he told you about that, you're also talking to the guy who discovered it. Midnight watch, and I almost got in trouble for coming up the officer's stairway. I was forgiven, of course, for that minor transgression.
No, he didn't ... not that I can recall. (It was back in the 70's when he spent a week with my ex and I.)
At some point out there (was it after I was back in college?) the Midway's OD forgot to check the status of her elevators before putting her into a turn. One of them was down.
| 270 |
Athos Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:38:25am |
re: #193 Walter L. Newton
In a comment above, with a quote from a story, it said Democrats and Republicans were asking for some action on this.
Which Democrats?
I think the reference is to the Democrats who signed to co-Sponsor HR 563 - Bill calling for the pardon of Ramos and Campeon. I counted 5.
The bill died in committee as the Democrat led leadership wouldn't let it go further.
| 271 |
abolitionist Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:38:30am |
re: #245 Iron Fist
Thank you for that explanation of the legal nuances.
| 272 |
Viking6 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:38:34am |
I am glad that they are going home. However, if they had a little better training with their firearms there would have been one less witness at their trial and more than likely they would have been exonerated.
/gun control is the ability to Kill your target
| 273 |
Eowyn2 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:38:38am |
re: #260 NYCHardhat
His world approval rating is 90% because he is a toothless dog.
its down to 89% because Chavez has not been invited to the innaugeration?
| 274 |
Dirk Diggler Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:38:40am |
redstateredneck,
loppyd feel bad?
I suspect loppyd is trying to get used to the idea of a Super Bowl without her beloved Pats in it.
| 275 |
realwest Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:38:53am |
re: #262 jwb7605
Bob Beckel? Seriously? Well if Rahm Emmanuel and Bob Beckel were in favor of it, I guess the question becomes why didn't Bush do this before today?
Send out the wrong (or right?) signal?
| 276 |
dennisw Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:39:23am |
re: #223 lawhawk
Yes, there was bipartisan support for a commutation or pardon:
I could easily see 0bama letting these guys off the hook if GW didn't. This put the pressure on Bush. 0 is doing all kinds of reaching across the aisle gestures. All kinds of head fakes to the right. All so he can get "free" health care passed which will make all Americans eternally dependent wards of the Federal government
Mark Steyn says national health care is a line that once crossed is irreversible and leads to even more socialism. 0bama's other main objective will be to tilt the electorate leftward by an illegal alien amnesty. These people will vote Democrat forever in gratitude
| 277 |
NYCHardhat Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:39:32am |
re: #273 Eowyn2
its down to 89% because Chavez has not been invited to the innaugeration?
And because Americans don't smell like goats.
| 278 |
loppyd Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:39:35am |
re: #274 Dirk Diggler
redstateredneck,
I suspect loppyd is trying to get used to the idea of a Super Bowl without her beloved Pats in it.
Surely you have some advice on how to go about it.
/ducking
| 279 |
LeePro Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:39:37am |
re: #101 gregg
Sorry if this is a stupid question, but why do presidents wait for the last minute to issue pardons? I guess I could see waiting until after the November elections, but why the last day in office?
backlash.
| 281 |
NYCHardhat Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:40:13am |
| 282 |
redstateredneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:40:33am |
re: #261 loppyd
I'm on the mend - had a head cold and the flu. It was lovely.
Yucky. Glad you're better. Is the BF a whiny baby when he's sick?
| 283 |
Pyrocles Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:40:36am |
My Liberal wife listens to NPR religiously, and yes, it's torture. This morning was the worst so far.
re: #246 Dirk Diggler
buzzsawmonkey,
Any conservative or anti-idiotarian who regularly listens to NPR must be a masochist.
| 284 |
realwest Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:40:42am |
re: #270 Athos
"The bill died in committee as the Democrat led leadership wouldn't let it go further." Really? I mean other posters have indicated that both Rahm Emmanuel and Bob Beckel (I know he's not in Congress) were in favor of it; wonder why the Dem leadership woulnd't let it out of committee?
| 285 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:40:45am |
I will be trying to avoid all journatainment coverage of the deification tomorrow. I need to keep my sanity. Or maybe it would be better if I just went insane first.
Sometimes, I think that it would be better if 0bama turns out to be Lovecraft's Nyarlathotep, and summons the Elder Gods, as I described in an earlier post.
At least then, it would be over quickly.
Instead, I'll watch as the 0ne and his minions erode our liberties and try to let Israel get destroyed.
They'll fail in the latter, though.
| 286 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:40:51am |
re: #251 realwest
Well, without going into the veracity of WND, I do note that the link is date December 22, 2007.
Methinks much stronger pressure has been brought to bear on this since then - and it may indeed have been a bi-partisan effort, but I'd be astounded if it wasn't in fact led by Republicans.
Well, WND, when they do stretch the facts, or report on shaky subject, tend to lean FAR RIGHT. So, I would wonder, why would you think that there is something fishy in their reporting, since in this case it seems fairly balanced and not siding with just the right?
| 287 |
cathypop Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:41:01am |
re: #282 redstateredneck
Yucky. Glad you're better. Is the BF a whiny baby when he's sick?
Aren't all men?
| 288 |
michaelhop Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:41:04am |
Way to go, GW. Now pardon all the Gitmo staff and related CIA folks as a pre-emptive measure.
| 289 |
Eowyn2 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:41:14am |
| 290 |
anotherindyfilmguy Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:41:21am |
re: #37 Iron Fist
I suspect a Jury would throw out any civil case brought on behalf of the drug dealer in this case...
Commuting was correct for these two, for a variety of reasons.
He should pardon Scooter Libby and, IMO, issue a blanket pardon to all his staff and appointees etc so that Pelosi and pals can't go after them for anything, real or (mostly) imagined in any attempt to trump up charges for him after he is gone...
| 291 |
quickjustice Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:41:22am |
One of Bush's last official acts was to grant mercy to two men trying diligently to serve their country. Right in character with this much maligned, yet valorous, man.
| 292 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:41:29am |
re: #259 tfc3rid
And if he did not do it, it would never have happened... Tomorrow marks the beginning of
our time as Citizens ofthe end of the World. Ramos and Campeon are one of the last gasps of all we believe in...
Fixed it.
| 293 |
Sharmuta Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:41:30am |
re: #267 prince of dorkness
A BP agent friend of mine who has worked with both Ramos and Compean, said that what they did happens all the time. The question in my mind, is why they were prosecuted in the first place?
I don't know all the details of this case, but I do know that no citizen is above the law*.
*Except bill clinton
| 294 |
loppyd Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:41:50am |
re: #282 redstateredneck
Yucky. Glad you're better. Is the BF a whiny baby when he's sick?
helpless.
| 295 |
redstateredneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:42:28am |
re: #267 prince of dorkness
A BP agent friend of mine who has worked with both Ramos and Compean, said that what they did happens all the time. The question in my mind, is why they were prosecuted in the first place?
Weren't they prosecuted for the coverup?
| 296 |
wrenchwench Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:42:51am |
re: #275 realwest
Bob Beckel? Seriously? Well if Rahm Emmanuel and Bob Beckel were in favor of it, I guess the question becomes why didn't Bush do this before today?
Send out the wrong (or right?) signal?
See Lawhawk's # 103.
He had to wait until the process was carried out. Justice has to run its course, and the regulations governing the office of the pardon attorney have to be followed, including sufficient time to review the cases, and for final judgments to be entered by the respective federal courts.
| 297 |
dennisw Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:43:16am |
re: #267 prince of dorkness
A BP agent friend of mine who has worked with both Ramos and Compean, said that what they did happens all the time. The question in my mind, is why they were prosecuted in the first place?
To scare the rest of the agents into letting up. Not being aggressive. Plus Mexico demanded it and the story goes that we allow illegal immigration because the Mexicans have been very fastidious on the War on Terror and looking out for border crossers who look Muslim. That's the story take it as you will
| 298 |
Ford_Prefect Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:43:27am |
re: #263 bellamags
WHO CARES WHAT THEY THINK
Aren't they all a bunch of lumberjacks, anyway? Canadian Lizards excepted of course.
| 299 |
lifeofthemind Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:43:51am |
While I am glad that they got the commutation having talked to BP and FBI about this case I do feel that it is unacceptable for any Law Enforcement Officer to
1) destroy evidence
2) lie to their boss
That is why they went to jail. Under the circumstances I do not think that shooting the drug dealers would in itself have resulted in prosecution. At worst they would have faced a little beach time.
| 300 |
realwest Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:43:52am |
re: #223 lawhawk
Please read Atho's comment at #270 and give me your take on it?!
| 301 |
redstateredneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:44:26am |
| 303 |
anotherindyfilmguy Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:44:33am |
re: #267 prince of dorkness
A BP agent friend of mine who has worked with both Ramos and Compean, said that what they did happens all the time. The question in my mind, is why they were prosecuted in the first place?
Because the drug dealer got away and one Prosecuter got wind of it and decided to make an example of them. They screwed up in that they didn't make a corpse out of the drug dealer and got caught later. The Prosecutor did it all for political reasons to promote the Prosecutors career...
| 304 |
avanti Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:44:53am |
re: #211 Kaptain
And hopefully some enterprising conservatives are facilitating a transfer of wealth...
They are predicting 700 million to a billion extra tourist dollars for our area in and around the district.
| 305 |
bellamags Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:45:08am |
re: #249 buzzsawmonkey
I can't reply because of my computer - but you can email me something quick and I will respond. Doppelganglander posted the job opening earlier. Here is the link. AJC looking for columnist.
You would be perfect.
| 307 |
snowgardendream Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:45:39am |
re: #178 Ford_Prefect
LGF opinion poll - Do you think the general public will get sick of hearing about Obama and his supernatural abilities to make everything right with the world?
I don't know...some cults implode; others spread like a virus. The cult of Obama is spread by Ignorance and Want, the two philosophies that cling to the legs of Obama, Christmas "Presents" himself; as Dickens says "Beware them both and all of their degree, but most of all beware this boy (ignorance) for on his brow I see that written which is Doom, unless the writing be erased." How can we erase the writing? Unless the media stops playing lapdog (love the cartoon) and starts doing their job of questioning all governing bodies, the Obama love fever will ravage on.
| 309 |
jorline Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:46:12am |
Late to the Party, but this is the best news I've had all day.
Thank you, Mr. President!
| 310 |
anotherindyfilmguy Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:46:12am |
re: #293 Sharmuta
I don't know all the details of this case, but I do know that no citizen is above the law*.
*Except
bill clintonconnected democracks
fixed that for ya..
| 311 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:46:14am |
re: #281 NYCHardhat
You're right. Why is it reported in our media?
Because they're in a country that is not America, which according to our enlightened media elites makes them, de facto, smarter than Americans.
Say, will us stoooopid Americans suddenly become cultured geniuses by the end of the day tomorrow?
| 312 |
redstateredneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:46:14am |
re: #295 redstateredneck
Weren't they prosecuted for the coverup?
No, here it is:
They were convicted of shooting admitted drug smuggler Osvaldo Aldrete Davila in the buttocks as he fled across the Rio Grande, away from an abandoned van load of marijuana. The border agents argued during their trials that they believed the smuggler was armed and that they shot him in self defense. The prosecutor in the case said there was no evidence linking the smuggler to the van of marijuana. The prosecutor also said the border agents didn't report the shooting and tampered with evidence by picking up several spent shell casings
It was the not reporting it and tampering of evidence I remembered. Of course, they were convicted on the testimony of the POS they shot who was later arrested for smuggling dope again.
| 313 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:46:15am |
Well, thank God for this!
It's almost the right thing to do.
They should never have been prosecuted to begin with, and should have been fully pardoned.
Does the "commutation" mean that the conviction remains on their record?
| 314 |
jwb7605 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:46:22am |
re: #268 pre-Boomer Marine brat
No, he didn't ... not that I can recall. (It was back in the 70's when he spent a week with my ex and I.)
At some point out there (was it after I was back in college?) the Midway's OD forgot to check the status of her elevators before putting her into a turn. One of them was down.
I opened the door I usually took, and saw this big ass wave headed for us. Not wanting to get wet, I closed the door. Whole ship did the "bwaaang" thing.
I re-opened the door, and had the presence of mind to look down. Twice. No catwalk.
Elevator down, and they did a turn? I take it the OD's career was brief!
The Midway exhibit in San Diego is cool. I toured it with my family a few years ago. My wife at one point said "No -- you need to follow the tour arrows". I said "That's for tourists. I'll meet you up at the cats".
I met them up at the cats. My wife said "Oh ... you found it!". At that time, all the Electronic shacks were "closed for refurbishing", so I missed a little bit.
| 315 |
LeePro Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:46:55am |
| 316 |
bellamags Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:47:08am |
re: #281 NYCHardhat
You're right. Why is it reported in our media?
because it is bad for bush and good for obama
| 317 |
Spiker Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:47:36am |
I have been in a foul mood over Messiah week in DC and this just pulled me out of it. Excellent news.
| 318 |
redstateredneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:47:51am |
re: #313 reine.de.tout
Well, thank God for this!
It's almost the right thing to do.
They should never have been prosecuted to begin with, and should have been fully pardoned.Does the "commutation" mean that the conviction remains on their record?
Yeah, but they can appeal it. With a pardon there is no appeal. Or that's what our resident law experts say.
| 319 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:49:09am |
re: #318 redstateredneck
Yeah, but they can appeal it. With a pardon there is no appeal. Or that's what our resident law experts say.
OK.
But with a "pardon", doesn't the whole thing disappear without an appeal?
| 320 |
jwb7605 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:49:23am |
re: #275 realwest
Bob Beckel? Seriously? Well if Rahm Emmanuel and Bob Beckel were in favor of it, I guess the question becomes why didn't Bush do this before today?
Send out the wrong (or right?) signal?
Just after the trial started, Beckel (in one of his rare moments of sanity) said the whole thing was a travesty of justice and he didn't expect it to go anywhere.
and "before today" -- would you spend the capital knowing full well you'd be bashed anyway by the Fiskie nomination, or would you do that as something the public would remember as "a final gesture"?
| 321 |
redstateredneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:49:49am |
re: #319 reine.de.tout
OK.
But with a "pardon", doesn't the whole thing disappear without an appeal?
Apparently not. Upthread someone said that this is what the families wanted.
| 322 |
prince of dorkness Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:50:24am |
| 323 |
redstateredneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:50:51am |
re: #321 redstateredneck
Apparently not. Upthread someone said that this is what the families wanted.
#36^^^
| 324 |
Dirk Diggler Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:50:52am |
loppyd,
Surely you have some advice on how to go about it.
/ducking
As long as your team isn't the Detroit Lions, there's always next year.
HI DIRK!
HI WRITERMOM!
| 325 |
Athos Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:51:24am |
re: #284 realwest
I don't know the reason / motive behind it. It was referred to Committee, but nothing happened from that point on and it died when the 110th Congress ended. In the House, nothing, absolutely nothing, happens without the approval and blessing of the Democrat leadership (Pelosi / Hoyer).
I think the support of Emmanuel and Beckel towards this is still fundamentally a non-starter for the Speaker. Beckel, while a pundit, is still the guy who led Mondale's historic wipeout, so I wonder about his real influence in Dem circles today. In the case of Emmanuel - perhaps the interest was purely political - there was little to gain to not support a call for the President to commute the sentences and credit could be claimed if the President did make the commutation.
| 326 |
jjmckay1216 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:51:55am |
re: #134 jwb7605
as a former Cardinal (albeit 2 pre-season games in the 70's, lol) I still had the bird on my helmet. I think ppl look at them as underachievers and this year is not the case. Warner is great under pressure and the defense is performing very well. That and EDGE with fresh legs, I think Pittsburgh needs to prepare very well for them to win
| 327 |
redstateredneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:52:06am |
re: #322 prince of dorkness
It's twue. It's twue.
Is that a Lili Von Shtupp reference?
I loved Madeline Kahn.
| 329 |
marge45b Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:54:33am |
God Bless W! We will miss your service to our country! History will serve you right.
| 330 |
jwb7605 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:55:21am |
re: #326 jjmckay1216
as a former Cardinal (albeit 2 pre-season games in the 70's, lol) I still had the bird on my helmet. I think ppl look at them as underachievers and this year is not the case. Warner is great under pressure and the defense is performing very well. That and EDGE with fresh legs, I think Pittsburgh needs to prepare very well for them to win
I hope you're right! I remember the Broncos-Washington Redskins Superbowl. Difference is QB leadership, but the Cinderella story is still there.
| 331 |
chemicalcorpse Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:56:46am |
THE most positive aspect of the lame-duck president; this may well identify his legacy.
| 332 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:57:00am |
re: #311 Slumbering Behemoth
Speaking of stupid Americans, I recall when that *ahem* lady that hosted "The Weakest Link" was carrying on in an interview about how dumb us Yanks were compared to all the geniuses in Europe, citing that many of us don't even have a passport as an example.
Pretty tough talk from a woman who pronounces geometry as "jom-tree", and medicine as "med-sin".
Pet peeve.
| 333 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:58:05am |
| 334 |
LeePro Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:58:24am |
re: #157 pre-Boomer Marine brat
...I haven't followed football since the Cowboys canned Landry.
Neither have I (although I can still get excited over a game now and then --- e.g. the Cardinals this weekend!)... but Landry canned? Thought he retired after his fabulous career.
| 335 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:58:58am |
re: #36 Eowyn2
the wife of one of them was on Mike Gallagher one afternoon. They wanted the sentences to be commuted rather than pardoned.
Evidently, to pardon is to imply guilt. Whereas, with the commuted sentence, they are able to go home while their lawyers work on the apeals. They want an INNOCENT verdict.
Ah, I was wondering.
They should have an "innocent" verdict.
| 336 |
jjmckay1216 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:58:59am |
re: #330 jwb7605
i think THIS is the team of destiny
| 337 |
Scannit Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:59:45am |
re: #55 tappin52
As I understand it, Libby has not requested a pardon, which is a prerequisite.
But didn't B.J. Clinton commute/pardon some FALN members that didn't request it? One of many items B.J. did to help Hillarity win her office.
| 340 |
prince of dorkness Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:01:21am |
re: #293 Sharmuta
re: #327 redstateredneck
Well of course it wouldn't apply to Slick Willy. But if the two agents thought the smuggler had a gun, and represented a threat of death or severe bodily harm (to the agents or a third party) then they would have been justified under their Use of Force policy.
| 341 |
jwb7605 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:01:28am |
re: #336 jjmckay1216
i think THIS is the team of destiny
*snicker*
For what it's worth, I did play (second string) defensive tackle for the South Sioux City Cardinal high school football team.
I weighed 140 lbs, and the team was Oh-and-however-many-games-there-were.
| 343 |
Eowyn2 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:03:47am |
re: #299 lifeofthemind
While I am glad that they got the commutation having talked to BP and FBI about this case I do feel that it is unacceptable for any Law Enforcement Officer to
1) destroy evidence
2) lie to their boss
That is why they went to jail. Under the circumstances I do not think that shooting the drug dealers would in itself have resulted in prosecution. At worst they would have faced a little beach time.
The feds PAID the dealer to come back to the US to testify against them.
| 344 |
Fat Bastard Vegetarian Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:04:39am |
WTG President Bush. Why did you keep us on pins and needles so long. Could have done this (or announced this) sooner.
But thank you, sir.
| 345 |
Macker Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:05:41am |
re: #337 Scannit
I thought Marc Rich's ex flashed her bodacious ta-tas in front of Cliinton to get that pardon....
| 346 |
Sharmuta Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:06:28am |
re: #340 prince of dorkness
I'm not trying to argue this specific case- I don't know enough about it to do so.
My point was that law enforcement officers need to be held accountable for their actions- if they're not, then the rule of law means nothing.
Again- not arguing on this case specifically. Just my position on law enforcement in general.
| 347 |
prince of dorkness Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:06:55am |
re: #327 redstateredneck
It's twue. It's twue.
Is that a Lili Von Shtupp reference?
I loved Madeline Kahn.
I always thought she was kinda hot...
| 348 |
prince of dorkness Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:08:34am |
re: #340 prince of dorkness
re: #293 Sharmuta
re: #327 redstateredneck
I'm getting my replies mix up, sorry.
| 349 |
Dream Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:08:46am |
re: #193 Walter L. Newton
In a comment above, with a quote from a story, it said Democrats and Republicans were asking for some action on this.
Which Democrats?
Glenn Beck had his friend on one of his shows who was talking about the support they were getting for a commutation and he mentioned that one of the CA senators were on board with the effort. I want to say that it was Feinstein but I can't speak with 100% certainty on that. Aside from that I don't know of any others.
| 351 |
HolmWrecker Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:09:41am |
I'm kinda torn on this issue. The border cops did break the rules....although putting cops in prison is a bit much.
I'm glad they are free yet disappointed that they did not play by the rules. We must hold ourselves to a higher standard than all other countries.
They should have kept shooting 'til the loser drug mule was very dead, would have avoided a lot of hassles.
| 354 |
Picayune Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:11:57am |
re: #113 MandyManners
Members of the jury that convicted them have now stated that had the jury been given information by the Fed prosecutor about the illegal drug dealer who was shot during escape (hot pursuit) having violated his immunity deal by bringing in more drugs into the USA when he returned to testify - the jury would Not have convicted our Border Agents!
Go for the re-trail, and expose the truth about these political prisoners. I bet they win on appeal/retrial. Best of luck, and let them out of solitary confinement today!
| 355 |
Muadib Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:13:01am |
Thank you Mr. President.
And watch out, the idiot Pelosi and the Marxist henchmen want revenge.
| 356 |
prince of dorkness Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:13:48am |
re: #346 Sharmuta
re: #340 prince of dorkness
I'm not trying to argue this specific case- I don't know enough about it to do so.
My point was that law enforcement officers need to be held accountable for their actions- if they're not, then the rule of law means nothing.
Again- not arguing on this case specifically. Just my position on law enforcement in general.
No argument here. Everyone should be held to the same standard, I was being case specific.
| 357 |
abolitionist Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:13:57am |
re: #328 Iron Fist
Yeah, the Idea that Blinky wants to set up "special" tribunals to indict (and convict) workers in the Bush Administration is really, really very scary.
[snip]
Wholeheartedly agree.
If some people wanted to bring to an abrupt end this great experiment in democracy and centuries-long tradition of peaceful and civil transitions of political power that Pres. Washington helped establish, it would be hard to come up with a more sure way to accomplish it than demonizing and criminalizing and prosecuting an outgoing administration.
| 358 |
kingkenrod Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:14:19am |
I'm very glad the officers had their sentences commuted. I think the prosecution was over-zealous and the sentences too harsh. I also think the officers were operating under ridiculous guidelines, which is the main reason they made poor decisions confronting the smuggler and covering up their actions. I also think their prosecution hurt the morale of the border patrol.
| 360 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:17:36am |
I could stir this thread up by asking about Pollard, but I won't.
| 361 |
reine.de.tout Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:18:37am |
re: #358 kingkenrod
I'm very glad the officers had their sentences commuted. I think the prosecution was over-zealous and the sentences too harsh. I also think the officers were operating under ridiculous guidelines, which is the main reason they made poor decisions confronting the smuggler and covering up their actions. I also think their prosecution hurt the morale of the border patrol.
Agree with you on all points.
| 362 |
Right Wing Wacko Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:18:45am |
I would have preferred that they get full pardons, but one takes what one can get.
| 363 |
LeePro Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:20:45am |
| 364 |
Picayune Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:22:29am |
re: #130 dennisw
Glenn Beck was relentless.
So were a few Representatives especially Dana Rohrabacher of California
No Senators, they are all useless
It seemed to me GW Bush loved every Mexican on this planet expect for
these two Mexican/American border agents. Thank God they are getting
out. Hopefully they write books and make some money they deserve
Yep, our new "Joe the Border Agents"! Sing it boys, as soon as you are legally able to do so. Man have they got a story to tell. Many will listen.
| 365 |
Zim Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:22:58am |
Thank you President Bush. Please take the time to email the White House.
I hope he pardons Libby too. Just to piss off the left!
| 366 |
Sharmuta Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:23:04am |
re: #359 Iron Fist
I've had enough dealings with the law to not have very much use for them, but I thought that this particular case was bullshit. There are people today in places like HRT who need to be in prison, and nothing was done to them. These guys just did their job. They didn't go borrow a tank from the National Guard and start running over people with it. Or shoot an unarmed woman holding a baby in the head. Drop a bomb on the roof of a building and level a city block. And on and on. There's a lot of abuse of power by Law Enforcement.
But these guys were just doing their job.
I'm not saying anything to the contrary. But when law enforcement officers shoot a person in the line of duty (a perp, an innocent) there is usually an investigation, and rightly so. These two men have been commuted and I hope their lawyers serve them well and the process will exonerate them.
Again- I was speaking in generalizations, and not about these two men in particular.
| 367 |
Sharmuta Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:23:15am |
re: #362 Right Wing Wacko
I would have preferred that they get full pardons, but one takes what one can get.
See #36.
| 368 |
lifeofthemind Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:23:56am |
re: #359 Iron Fist
I've had enough dealings with the law to not have very much use for them, but I thought that this particular case was bullshit. There are people today in places like HRT who need to be in prison, and nothing was done to them. These guys just did their job. They didn't go borrow a tank from the National Guard and start running over people with it. Or shoot an unarmed woman holding a baby in the head. Drop a bomb on the roof of a building and level a city block. And on and on. There's a lot of abuse of power by Law Enforcement.
But these guys were just doing their job.
I once talked to a retired Philadelphia cop who worked on the after action report for the MOVE bombing in 1985. He was convinced that Mayor Wilson Goode committed premeditated murder.
| 369 |
DoubleU Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:24:49am |
Remember Bush is for Amnesty, and he is still good friends with Sutton.
| 370 |
Dainn Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:26:07am |
All I can say to this: about frickin time.
Why did it take so long? Why the last day commutation? Why didn't he do it months or years ago? How much has waiting on this poor men gained him?
Great that he did it, but a long time late. Not too late, but late.
| 373 |
descolada9 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:27:20am |
Should have been full pardons and they should receive back pay for the time they missed from their Border Patrol jobs. They have the stigma of felony convictions hanging over them.
| 374 |
astronmr20 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:28:34am |
Glad he finally did it,
Still a bit miffed this was not done a long time ago. Can't help but think Bush was still deferring to his prosecutor buddy by letting the convictions stand.
These guys won't even be able to get security guard jobs- they'll be lucky to get construction with felony convictions on their record.
Still an injustice, but I applaud Bush for going half-way anyhow.
| 375 |
descolada9 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:29:14am |
re: #373 descolada9
Should have been full pardons and they should receive back pay for the time they missed from their Border Patrol jobs. They have the stigma of felony convictions hanging over them.
Just read #36 and it makes sense. Still, they should never have been in jail to begin with!
| 376 |
Athos Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:30:19am |
re: #359 Iron Fist
But these guys were just doing their job.
Based on my understanding of the case, yes. But they also did work to cover up their actions - which IMO should have resulted in nothing more than an administrative punishment, not criminal prosecution.
Unfortunately, agendas based on politics and egos, still will result in simple matters being blown out of all porportion from the core infraction - and the inverse, where truely guilty and reprehensible people gain support and benefits that ignore the real nature of their crimes and are held as heroes.
This is all just another battlefield in the Cold Civil War that you reference.
| 379 |
redstateredneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:37:35am |
re: #371 buzzsawmonkey
I'm not counting my chickens before they come home to roost.
Well, what kind of column is it gonna be anyway? Op/Ed? Advice to the Lovelorn? Helpful Hints?
| 380 |
redstateredneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:39:52am |
re: #377 taxfreekiller
There will be a re-trial.
The drug mule will get put on the stand, he will admit to the deal he got,
he will get more time for perjury, Johnny Sutton should loose his law lis.a and the judge should be sanctioned for her roll.Thank you Pres. Bush,
The Right thing is not all that hard after all is it.
taxfreekiller
and as agent
for ms tfk who called me crying she was so happylater
You helped keep this alive. Bless you, {tfk}!
| 381 |
redstateredneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:40:22am |
Uh-oh. Am I sitting here talking to myself again?
| 382 |
nyc redneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:42:24am |
i heard this on the radio earlier. i felt such a sense of relief.
i am so happy these guys have been set free.
i knew pres. bush would come thru.
tho it should have happened sooner.
| 384 |
nyc redneck Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:44:22am |
re: #377 taxfreekiller
hey {tfk}
i thought of you when i heard the good news.
:D
yay.
| 385 |
Penny T. Wienerdog Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:46:00am |
re: #141 Occasional Reader
This is just a blatant attempt by BusHitler to distract the American people from the miraculously historical history-making miracle of The Coming of The One.
Which one?
| 386 |
tjseagrove Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:46:25am |
Hope they get out today...anyone hear of the timing?
from [Link: www.wnd.com...] "...now are scheduled to end on March 20"
| 387 |
LeePro Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:48:10am |
re: #371 buzzsawmonkey
I'm not counting my chickens before they come home to roost.
hahahahahahahaha
HOPE!
| 388 |
Canoe Train Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:59:04am |
Well done -- and high time the President did such an act. Quite different than some other Administrations in recent memory that we could mention.
| 389 |
babes Mon, Jan 19, 2009 12:00:49pm |
re: #378 Iron Fist
It sure seemed like that to me. What happend was obviously extreme overkill. And the EOD guy who built the bomb had to have a pretty good idea about what it would do. Dealing with explosives is a science. The really good guys with it can blow a door donw and not hurt anyone standing near the door when the explosives go off. Sure as God he knew that the bomb would start a fire. And they didn't let the fire department stop the blaze. They burned down a whole city block trying to make a spectacular arrest to show off for the cameras.
I lived in the Philly suburbs during the Move ordeal. The entire ordeal was televised. The Move ordeal was America's introduction to urban warfare. And, there were many mistakes made. Philadelphia's License and Inspection Department refused to act prior to the confrontation (the house and its residents were in violation of many, many health codes - for example it was a group home and none of the toilets worked.) Youth Services failed to pick-up the kids prior to them returning home that day and on and on. To address letting the fire burn - there were snipers in the neighborhood firing guns at the fireman. The fire chief did not want his men getting shot at while trying to put out a fire. The police were trying to put an end to the stand off - evening was coming on and people were threating to riot - hence, the bad idea of dropping C4 from a helicopter onto the house.
| 390 |
UberInfidel67 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 12:02:29pm |
More on Johnny Sutton.....nad the firing of the US attorneys scandal:
WASHINGTON — A longtime protege of President Bush told former U.S. Attorney David Iglesias that he was fired for political reasons and that he shouldn't fight his ouster, Iglesias says in a new book.
"This is political," Iglesias recalls Texas U.S. Attorney Johnny Sutton telling him shortly after he was ousted. "If I were you, I'd just go quietly."
Iglesias, a former U.S. attorney in New Mexico, is one of nine federal prosecutors whose firings triggered a yearlong controversy at the Justice Department and led to the resignations of Attorney General Alberto Gonzales and 11 other Justice Department officials.
Iglesias cites the exchange with Sutton in his upcoming book, "In Justice," as further evidence that he was forced out because Republicans were displeased with his refusal to prosecute Democrats.
"I couldn't believe what I was hearing: a U.S. attorney all but admitting that a colleague was being hung out to dry for reasons that had nothing to do with performance or professionalism," he wrote in a draft of the book, which McClatchy obtained.
Sutton, who's the top U.S. attorney in San Antonio, didn't return phone calls Thursday seeking comment.
As a result of Iglesias' and several other prosecutors' accusations that they were fired in December 2006 for improper political reasons, the Justice Department turned over thousands of documents, and Congress forced top officials, including Gonzales, to testify.
No one has determined who decided which prosecutors should be fired and why. Democrats say that must mean the White House was calling the shots, while the administration has said it demonstrates that the firings were blown out of proportion.
Iglesias said he asked Sutton how he knew about his firing.
"I saw your name," he quoted Sutton as saying.
Iglesias said in an interview that Sutton refused to elaborate, "but to have one of the most powerful U.S. attorneys tell me my firing was political was confirmation, in my view, that I was fired for the wrong reasons."
During a congressional investigation of the firings, department e-mails revealed that Sutton was given a heads-up about the firings because he was the chairman of the Attorney General's Advisory Committee of U.S. Attorneys.
Justice Department officials said they couldn't comment on Iglesias' account because of an ongoing probe of the firings by the department's inspector general and the Office of Professional Responsibility.
"The department is cooperating with that investigation and has no further comment," said spokesman Peter Carr.
Sutton, whose ties to Bush date back to the president's Texas gubernatorial campaign, has been singled out himself by Republican critics who have called for his resignation. So far, he's weathered the political storm.
The critics have accused Sutton of leading an overzealous prosecution of Border Patrol agents Ignacio Ramos and Jose Alonso Compean, each sentenced to more than 10 years in prison for shooting a Mexican drug courier as he was trying to flee back to Mexico.
"The type of protection from political pressure that Johnny has gotten was the kind of protection that I thought we would get," said Iglesias, who said he bears Sutton no ill will. "And we didn't get it, I think largely because we didn't have a personal relationship with the president."
Iglesias' book, co-authored by Davin Seay, is due out in early June.
McClatchy Newspapers 2008
[Link: www.mcclatchydc.com...]
| 392 |
J.S. Mon, Jan 19, 2009 12:04:58pm |
Wow. That's great news. (I have to say that I will miss George W. Bush)...
| 393 |
bcgirl Mon, Jan 19, 2009 12:13:55pm |
Thank you President Bush,, I just knew you would not leave office and leave those men in prison. You are a just man.
| 395 |
coloradobuff Mon, Jan 19, 2009 12:29:13pm |
Thank goodness; it's about time. Now I can have a decent attitude about President Bush upon his leaving office. Without the commutation, my view of the man would have been greatly diminished. (Not that he would care much about what I think.)
| 396 |
Catttt Mon, Jan 19, 2009 12:30:40pm |
Thank you, President Bush, for doing the right thing. I'm not really surprised, but I am very, very relieved.
| 397 |
joan Mon, Jan 19, 2009 12:33:31pm |
Thank you to the Creator for reaching the heart of America's "Hezekiah"
| 398 |
anna Mon, Jan 19, 2009 12:38:33pm |
Great news for these two guys. They get out of jail. Thank you President Bush.
Though a word of advice, perhaps an Executive Order needs to be issued to protect the people in your administration from any post-Obama inaguration empaneled Congressional kangeroo courts. Just a thought.
| 399 |
jcw46 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 12:39:22pm |
hear, hear. This was the Right thing to do. A commutation was also the way to do it as it WAS a fact that they attempted to cover up what they had done. (it isn't the crime it's the coverup that gets ya)
Thank you George Bush for correcting a miscarriage of justice.
and may that prosecutor fry in hell for the zealot that he is.
| 400 |
Joan Mon, Jan 19, 2009 12:42:12pm |
re: #19 JammieWearingFool
Just heard that on ABC radio news. Can't find a link anywhere.
[Link: www.npr.org...]
I am so relieved by this news. What a terrible injustice for the two agents and their families; and what terrible consequences to the morale and calibre of our law enforcement. Who would take on such a job, knowing that rather than facing law enforcement internal regulation--they would be held criminally accountable? Very similar to lawyerly parsing of U.S. military actions by civilian fifth columnists and media hacks....
anyway
I am so relieved, beyond words.
| 401 |
Code Red 21 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 12:45:21pm |
Finally, thank-you GW. I'm sure the officers and their families are happy they're getting out of prison but they should have been pardoned.
| 402 |
Avery Bullard Mon, Jan 19, 2009 12:49:13pm |
Special kudos to Glenn Beck, Edd Hendee, and Pat Gray who are the unsung heroes who kept the faith for not only the two border agents, but their families as well. They won't seek the praise or the accolades, but these are very special people who chose to make a difference. Thank you Glenn, Edd, and Pat for a job well done!
| 403 |
kansas Mon, Jan 19, 2009 12:57:28pm |
Better than nothing I guess. Too bad he didn't grow a pair a few years ago. When I read he's issued blanket pardons to everyone in his administration to stick it to Conyers and Pelosi, then I'll celebrate. For me too little, too late.
| 405 |
so.cal.swede Mon, Jan 19, 2009 1:12:30pm |
Excellent news on this day where I in the morning got up to throw out the trash and there are four "migrants" sitting in our dumpster, digging through the garbage for bills, credit card applications, etc. that they collected in a big bag.
| 407 |
chilei Mon, Jan 19, 2009 1:25:13pm |
re: #398 anna
Great news for these two guys. They get out of jail. Thank you President Bush.
Though a word of advice, perhaps an Executive Order needs to be issued to protect the people in your administration from any post-Obama inaguration empaneled Congressional kangeroo courts. Just a thought.
Why, an Executive order is repealed the same way it is enacted, any act before the order is written or after it is repealed is still subject to any laws.
They have not been able to even get enough to allow them to be impeached which has a much lower burden of proof... you really think that they will come up with more?
| 409 |
NFLFan Mon, Jan 19, 2009 1:33:13pm |
This was a long time coming. Thanks to President Bush for the commutation of their sentences. They Should have been pardoned!
But why is it going to take a couple of months to release them from custody? What is wrong with today?
Tommorrow, the Kommissar takes over, God help us all then.
| 411 |
kynna Mon, Jan 19, 2009 3:09:55pm |
I've been on info lockdown all day and I'm just seeing this. Oh man. I just got tears in my eyes.
I wish they'd been pardoned, but I'll take what I can get.
God bless these men. They have been so wronged.
| 412 |
tntb Mon, Jan 19, 2009 3:33:17pm |
This is great news! I want to live in a country where the police can hit suspects who have surrendered with the butts of their rifles, shoot at unarmed people, and then lie about it with no repercussions. It's like the third world without all the flies and dying children!
| 413 |
Gretchen G.Tiger Mon, Jan 19, 2009 3:35:06pm |
I can't put into words how happy this makes me. I am so relieved for those men!
| 414 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Jan 19, 2009 3:42:11pm |
Wow, just plain wow. This is something that should never have come to pass, but nevertheless is excellent to hear.
Yet another reason for Leftoids to demand the arrest and conviction of Bush on Crimes Against Humanity. Even Pelosi is beginning to feel the sea change so now she is reportedly willing to consider the idea.
| 415 |
FurryOldGuyJeans Mon, Jan 19, 2009 3:45:00pm |
re: #390 UberInfidel67
What a steaming pile of HORSE SHIT.
But we won't see the end of the witch hunt and kangaroo courts during the next administration, I dare say.
| 416 |
Joan Mon, Jan 19, 2009 4:00:26pm |
re: #39 SasquatchOnSteroids
I'm guessing they'll call it "controversial", but not make much of a fuss since Holder was just up on the hill. Don't want to bring much attention to that, now do we...
Yah. So, tell me agin how stoopid Dubya is?
/sarc
| 417 |
Joan Mon, Jan 19, 2009 4:09:45pm |
re: #135 Slumbering Behemoth
WHAT?!?
ThugLords would love to completely devastate these two families as a warning to all border enforcement officers: to get along go along. "Make America Mexico el Norte!"
| 418 |
Victory Gin For All Mon, Jan 19, 2009 4:46:02pm |
Glad my donations didn't go to waste.
Okay, so make this two things he did right. The other was the war on terror. The rest of his presidency you can have.
| 419 |
Star Tripper Mon, Jan 19, 2009 4:53:37pm |
re: #25 jwb7605
Agree, better than nothing...and it might have been nice to do this before Christmas. Well, I hope these men can get on with their lives. Although the conviction stands, I'll bet there is at least a lucrative book deal.
| 420 |
snopercod Mon, Jan 19, 2009 5:18:19pm |
re: #42 yochanan
commuted isn't a pardon a pardon means you have no record and can take legal action to get legal redress, a commuted sentence just means you get out of jail but you are still considered convicted.
not excellent but better than nothing.
So does this mean that since they remain convicted felons, they will be denied their civil rights?
| 421 |
Obsidiandog Mon, Jan 19, 2009 5:29:01pm |
It's probably for the best, they did break the law and tried to cover it up which is an admission of guilt in itself no matter that their "victim" was a scumbag. Commutation is appropriate.
| 422 |
Cutty Sark Mon, Jan 19, 2009 5:30:16pm |
So George Bush finally grew some kahunes , after it would no longer be any kind of a liability to him. But as everyone knows and have said , IT'S NOT A PARDON , so instead of getting two balls, ole George only managed to grow ONE of them back .
-disgusted .
| 423 |
Fly4zip Mon, Jan 19, 2009 5:33:29pm |
This is my very first post here at LGF after a few years of lurking and finally, finally getting to join the club. Just wanted to say that I will miss President Bush more than I could ever imagine and his commuting the sentences of these fine men. I am NOT watching the coronation tomorrow. It is just too much to stomach.
God bless you, President Bush. We will miss you dearly.
Pray for our country and Israel, too!
| 424 |
NomadOfNorad Mon, Jan 19, 2009 5:42:54pm |
re: #215 gadlaw
About freaking time. They shouldn't have been prosecuted in the first place.
Is it possible for the lawyers and functionaries that brought about their convictions to be put on trial for fraud or such? Apparently there was a lot of crucial information that was deliberately left out of the trial, such as the very fact that these two were border patrol agents, and the fact that the man they shot at was a known, repeated drug smuggler.
Reportedly, when the jurors found out the rest of the details, immediately after the verdict, they felt devastated and betrayed. They felt like they'd been used!
| 426 |
NomadOfNorad Mon, Jan 19, 2009 6:03:04pm |
re: #378 Iron Fist
It sure seemed like that to me. What happend was obviously extreme overkill. And the EOD guy who built the bomb had to have a pretty good idea about what it would do. Dealing with explosives is a science. The really good guys with it can blow a door donw and not hurt anyone standing near the door when the explosives go off. Sure as God he knew that the bomb would start a fire. And they didn't let the fire department stop the blaze. They burned down a whole city block trying to make a spectacular arrest to show off for the cameras.
On top of that, a few innocent little children died in that fire, IIRC.
| 428 |
Right Brain Mon, Jan 19, 2009 6:46:09pm |
re: #412 tntb
You're obviously in the wrong site, PuffHo is three left turns and about a light-year away.
Good ending by President Bush: freeing two border patrol agents who were clearly overcharged. Who would we get to do the job if one snap decision could land one in prison for a decade?
| 429 |
grahamski Mon, Jan 19, 2009 6:49:50pm |
Good, although, they should have received a full pardon.
| 430 |
shiek al beif salami Mon, Jan 19, 2009 6:50:15pm |
memo: all Border Patrol agents
re: Itinerant World Citizen Non-licensed Trans-Legal Pharmaceutical Vendors Making Informal Cross-Border Perambulations
Next time, shoot the bastards in the head instead of the ass. It will save us all a lot of trouble.
| 431 |
claspur Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:22:20pm |
re: #412 tntb
Ramos and Compean were fired at first by the dope smugglers.
You need to study that case.
| 432 |
tntb Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:41:44pm |
I did study it:
1. None of the other agents even drew their weapons.
2. They (Ramos and Compean) tried to cover this up. That is a felony in and of itself.
3. They shot an unarmed man (Um, "unarmed" means he didn't shoot at them).
4. They attempted to hit him with the butt of a rifle when his hands were up.
It's third-world policing. They went to jail for a reason. Bush himself said so and that's why he commuted the sentences instead of pardoning - they did the crime. Bush just felt they had done enough time. I actually don't disagree with that part.
But they were dirty cops, and we should expect more from them.
| 437 |
saxking20 Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:31:50pm |
I tried to send a FAX this morning but could not get through so I'll just post it here.
Dear President Bush,
Thank you so much for all that you have done for the country in keeping us safe, freeing 50 million people and all the other projects you and First Lady Laura have done for us.
One last thing you could do for me: Please pardon the two border guards, Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean that are serving long prison terms.
My best to you and Mrs. Bush and thank you for your service.
Sincerely yours,
Guess there was enough pressure without my FAX!
| 438 |
MJBrutus Tue, Jan 20, 2009 2:27:40am |
It is about flipping time! While late is better than never, Mr Prez, you should have done this years ago and not made those men suffer all this time.
| 439 |
will48 Tue, Jan 20, 2009 4:45:21am |
Still Jonathan Pollard rots in jail, together with the other enemies of USA, just as the Gitmo detainees are about to be set free.
I guess we can all see now clearly just how the US regards Israel - as its ally, or as its target country.
Thanks a lot, the leader of the Free World, for standing tall with the Jewish People in their struggle! Thank you also for refusing to sell F-22s to Israel while providing them to the islamist Turkey.
And the most thanks goes to You dear President for keeping the Iranian Bomb safe!
WHAT A DISGRACE!
| 440 |
Jed Tue, Jan 20, 2009 7:34:46am |
I was hoping also that Pollard would be pardoned. But the border agents certainly deserve it.
| 441 |
BethesdaDog Tue, Jan 20, 2009 8:36:20am |
Great news for the border agents.
Sad that Pollard is ignored. He did wrong, but he's served enough time. A former Assistant U.S. Attorney, who was not sympathetic to Pollard, confided in me that he had an experience with the sentencing judge, the late Aubrey Robinson, in the 1970's, which led him to believe that Robinson was an anti-semite. The incident had nothing to do with Pollard; it occurred years before.
Also inexplicable were the actions of Pollard's attorney, Hibey, who did not do the expected, routine act of filing the notice of appeal, thus leaving Pollard a prisoner for life. It was inexplicable, and despicable. Hibey said something like, "It never occurred to me," or something along those lines. Hibey apparently didn't like his client and exacted revenge by not doing what any rational, responsible lawyer would do.
This has to be one of the great injustices of all time.
Still, I celebrate the action for the border agents. It's too bad Libby was not given a pardon.
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