Texas Creationists Now Attacking Earth and Space Sciences

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
Science • Mon Jan 19, 2009 at 6:54 pm PST • Views: 219

We’ve had several posts about the creationist fanatics in Texas who are trying to push creationism/intelligent design/whatever into public school biology classes, but biology isn’t the only field they’re attacking. Earth and Space Science (ESS) courses are now a target as well, because they deal with scientific concepts like radiometric dating: Young Earth Creationist Attack on the New Earth and Space Science Course.

The new Earth and Space Science (ESS) course standards (and all other science course standards) will be up for approval before the State Board of Education (SBOE) during January 21-23. Some SBOE members—the seven who are Young Earth Creationists (YECs)—will attempt to make changes to the ESS standards in ways that will damage the scientific integrity and accuracy of the course. In particular, these SBOE members will try to negatively modify or delete the standards that require students to understand the following topics that deal with scientific topics they consider controversial: age of the Earth and universe, radiometric dating, evolution of fossil life, and the origin of life by abiotic chemical processes. These topics are the ones that YECs consider to be controversial; indeed, they are obsessed with them to the exclusion of everything else.

Texas citizens should write letters to the individual SBOE members and ask them to adopt the new ESS standards without change. That’s the simple message of your letter: to accept the proposed ESS standards without editing or modification, because I strongly suspect an effort will be made to do exactly that by members of the SBOE. A group of ten individual Earth scientists worked together for a year during several intense meetings to create these standards. These individuals worked to make the new ESS standards the finest possible. They sometimes had disagreements that were resolved by patient discussion and often compromise. Their very careful effort and hard work should not be derailed by the actions of nonscientists who have ideological and political agendas. Under the Texas Constitution, the SBOE members are politically-elected officials who actually have the power to write whatever science standards they wish, and several have expressed their intention to modify certain standards to align with their religious and ideological agendas. These standards would include the ones identified above.

In addition to writing letters to each of the 15 SBOE members asking that the ESS standards—indeed, all the science standards—not be modified in unscientific ways against the intentions of the scientists and science teachers who wrote them, I also request that you write to your colleagues and ask them to do the same. We need a tremendous outpouring of support from Earth scientists in both academia and industry to counter the probable equal outpouring of support from critics of science among the citizens of Texas.

Read the whole thing. It’s a glimpse at the inside tactics used by the groups who promote pseudo-science in America.

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913 comments

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1 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 6:56:27pm
2 HelloDare  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 6:57:45pm

If life is discovered on Mars, heads will explode.

3 Shug  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 6:58:54pm

Any supporters of these people still want to tell us that the creationists ideas aren't dangerous... ?

just debate? Present both sides, let the kids decide?...

Bullshit : These people are dangerous

4 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 6:59:31pm

I can understand why they don't like Radiometric Dating - Radiometric dating has been shown to lead to Radiometric pre-marital sex, and you can't have that.

/

5 Shug  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 6:59:46pm

re: #2 HelloDare

If life is discovered on Mars, heads will explode.


New Mars Creationists will be pushing ID in Martian classrooms before you know it

6 HelloDare  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:00:20pm

re: #2 HelloDare

If life is discovered on Mars, heads will explode.

They'll just say life on Mars came from the Earth. Hitched a ride on a rock thrown into space by an exploding volcano. Yeah, that's the ticket...

7 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:00:27pm

They really and truly are determined to cripple this nation. Shame on them! If they wanna' live in a theocratic nation, might I suggest they move to Afghanistan or Iran?

8 Fat Jolly Penguin  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:00:44pm

re: #2 HelloDare

If life is discovered on Mars, heads will explode.

They found a whole bunch of methane up there; it's a long shot, but it could be microscopic underground life forms producing it.

Now, if these creationists had their way, we wouldn't know about it, would we?

9 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:01:04pm

OT: History Channel has another good show on about the White House and Pres. Bush.

10 davinvalkri  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:01:11pm

Wait, what? Why?
Oh for the love of...enough already!
As a student of the hardest sciences, I demand that you stinking creationists cease and desist your attacks, now!
Not listening, eh? I got sulphuric acid here, and I'm not afraid to use it!

11 HelloDare  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:01:58pm

re: #8 Fat Jolly Penguin

They found a whole bunch of methane up there; it's a long shot, but it could be microscopic underground life forms producing it.

Now, if these creationists had their way, we wouldn't know about it, would we?

Life and beans discovered on Mars!

12 tradewind  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:02:25pm

re: #2 HelloDare

Ooh... but Life On Mars is a great new show.
Thanks for reminding me, it comes back soon.

13 tradewind  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:03:22pm

re: #10 davinvalkri

Watch it, you're liable to wake one of the sleeping Brontosauruses ridden by a twelve year old, and they don't mess around...

14 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:03:27pm

the moon is made outa green cheese too...

15 Fat Jolly Penguin  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:03:50pm

re: #11 HelloDare

Life and beans discovered on Mars!

I wonder if one of the rovers will run across a Taco Time somewhere?

16 ArmyWife  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:04:51pm

re: #10 davinvalkri

Careful with that, davinvalkri. I've dealt with my share of sulfuric acid burns and it can get ugly.

17 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:05:08pm

re: #9 MandyManners

OT: History Channel has another good show on about the White House and Pres. Bush.

great show about AF1 and a trip to Africa...way cool...
we be bad!

18 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:05:13pm

re: #7 MandyManners

They really and truly are determined to cripple this nation. Shame on them! If they wanna' live in a theocratic nation, might I suggest they move to Afghanistan or Iran?

Let us not slight the preeminent theocracy on this planet by omission- Saudi Arabia.

19 davinvalkri  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:05:16pm

re: #13 tradewind

Watch it, you're liable to wake one of the sleeping Brontosauruses ridden by a twelve year old, and they don't mess around...

What? "Brontosaurus" is a paleontological hoax, isn't it? And the whole "humans with dinos" gag is a creationist one. Or is this some kind of Flintstones reference?
/they're the modern stone age family...and probably more modern than these lunatics.

20 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:05:28pm
The three themes (or topical sections) are Earth in Space and Time, Solid Earth, and Fluid Earth. The first contains the most important information about cosmology and planetary astronomy in addition to traditional historical geological topics. It emphasizes geological time, stellar system and planet formation, the origin of the Earth's atmosphere and ocean, and fossil life. The second deals with plate tectonics, internal heat transfer, Earth structure, continent formation, geophysics, mountain building, volcanism, erosion and mass wasting, mineral resources, fossil fuels, etc. The third section discusses the movement of heat and fluids in Earth's atmosphere and hydrosphere, sea-level changes, the origin of life as a result of chemical processes and geochemical cycles, solar radiation, various chemical cycles, groundwater, and climate.

It's theme number one that's the biggest problem for the YEC, obviously. We can't have the kids learning that the universe is old, that the earth was formed slowly, that the earth itself evolved to the point where it could support life, and that from that point on evolution steered events.

Why- teaching the kids that will lead them down the dangerous path of materialism, and we can't have that. /

21 tradewind  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:06:39pm

re: #19 davinvalkri

Ummm...
That was kinda my point.
:)

22 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:06:55pm
23 jaunte  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:07:22pm

Don't miss the 'minority report' pdf mentioned at the end of the linked article:

"The following is a copy of a "minority report" that was sent to all the members of the SBOE on 2008 November 6. You can obtain a copy of the original email and fax at [Link: www.texscience.org...] It was written by two members appointed to the ESS standards-writing panel or workgroup, Roger Sigler and Tom Henderson. Both Sigler and Henderson are Young Earth Creationists (YECs) and Flood Geology believers (that is, Noah's Flood). Sigler was appointed by Terri Leo and Henderson was appointed by David Bradley, also both YECs and members of the SBOE. It is my opinion that Sigler and Henderson were deliberately planted into the ESS workgroup by two of the most extreme YEC radicals on the SBOE to disrupt the work of the panel and ultimately write a minority report (if they couldn't get their unscientific changes to the standards accepted by the other panel members, and there was almost no chance of that happening). During the initial panel meetings, both Sigler and Henderson suggested wording and revisions that would have weakened the scientific accuracy and reliability of ESS topics that YECs find to be controversial, such as radiometric dating, ancient ages of Earth and universe, evolution of fossils, the abiotic origin of life, and similar subjects."
24 solomonpanting  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:07:26pm
A second presentation about "out of place artifacts and fossils" claims that the Acámbaro Figures (miniature ceramic figures of dinosaurs!) found by Waldemar Julsrud in 1944 in Mexico--a notorious hoax--are authentic artifacts that provide evidence that humans and dinosaurs lived together in historical times.

It's statements like this where I don't believe in evolution...for those making these types of statements.

25 Jimmah  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:07:48pm

Yep - it ain't just biology that these folks have a problem with.

26 davinvalkri  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:08:06pm

re: #21 tradewind

Ummm...
That was kinda my point.
:)

Shame on me for being slow on the pop-cultural draw, then.
But really, don't these guys have something else to do, someplace better to be? Someplace where they won't have to bother easily pissed-off bastards like me?

27 HelloDare  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:08:42pm

re: #22 Dar ul Harb

E pur si muove.

It moves on the back of a turtle.

28 davinvalkri  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:09:13pm

re: #27 HelloDare

It moves on the back of a turtle.

Ah, but what's the turtle standing on?

29 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:09:28pm

re: #18 karmic_inquisitor

Let us not slight the preeminent theocracy on this planet by omission- Saudi Arabia.

How could I forget the oil ticks?!

30 Stonemason  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:09:45pm

re: #28 davinvalkri

Ah, but what's the turtle standing on?

turtles all the way down...

/ too easy

31 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:09:50pm

re: #28 davinvalkri

Ah, but what's the turtle standing on?

TATWD.

32 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:09:50pm

re: #28 davinvalkri

Ah, but what's the turtle standing on?

It's turtles, baby, all the way down.

33 tradewind  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:10:14pm

re: #26 davinvalkri

DLTBGYD.
**don'tletthebastardsgetyadown
I really can't get too upset about this. Texas has some very find educational institutions, overzealous/misguided high schools notwithstanding, and stuff has a way of floating to the top.

34 Ay, Caramba  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:10:26pm
35 Fat Jolly Penguin  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:10:31pm

re: #28 davinvalkri

Ah, but what's the turtle standing on?

Where's JCM? He's our resident expert on Turtleism.

36 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:10:36pm

After electing an inexperienced leader, the dinosaurs were pre-empted by a consortium of enemies.

37 tradewind  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:10:56pm

re: #33 tradewind

Ouch. Very ' fine'.
PIMF

38 itellu3times  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:11:17pm

re: #24 solomonpanting

A second presentation about "out of place artifacts and fossils" claims that the Acámbaro Figures (miniature ceramic figures of dinosaurs!) found by Waldemar Julsrud in 1944 in Mexico--a notorious hoax--are authentic artifacts that provide evidence that humans and dinosaurs lived together in historical times.

But, they were clearly dated, had "4103 B.C." marked on them. Also "Made in China".

39 Shug  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:11:26pm

re: #36 experiencedtraveller

After electing an inexperienced leader, the dinosaurs were pre-empted by a consortium of enemies.

Who campaigned on a slogan of Hope and Natural Selection

40 davinvalkri  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:12:08pm

re: #30 Stonemason

re: #31 karmic_inquisitor

re: #32 MandyManners

re: #35 Fat Jolly Penguin

Wow, everybody knows the joke around here.

41 HelloDare  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:12:09pm

re: #28 davinvalkri

Ah, but what's the turtle standing on?

On another turtles back -- and so on for 100,000 turtles. The last one stands on a the bottom of a turtle's feet.

42 Bloodnok  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:12:10pm

Charming tactics. Two members of the ESS (appointed by like-thinking SBOE members) tried to sink the ESS's own course standards by sending a secret "minority report" to the Board of Education without informing the rest of the ESS.

One of those members "claims dinosaurs died by a giant extraterrestrial impact during Noah's Flood". And this is a guy who potentially has influence on Texas science curriculum.

43 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:12:29pm

From the "minority report":

We disagree with some aspects of the current draft of the Texas Essential Knowledge and Skills - Earth and Space Science (TEKS – ESS) document. We feel the thrust of 'expert opinions' was inadequately incorporated. Critical thinking is a key learning skill all students are expected to learn in both public schools and higher educational institutions. Elimination of all "strengths and weaknesses" phrases substantially weakens this important requirement. In most cases no equivalent wording was substituted, and where substituted, was vague and inadequate to guide textbook publishers.

The doublespeak is just stunning! They're not interested in fostering critical thinking, they want to foster ignorance and undermine the foundations of the scientific method.

44 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:12:44pm

re: #26 davinvalkri

Shame on me for being slow on the pop-cultural draw, then.
But really, don't these guys have something else to do, someplace better to be? Someplace where they won't have to bother easily pissed-off bastards like me?

I wonder...it seems like people crawl into the tiniest little niche of almost impossible debate then scream at the top of their lungs to be heard as they argue for their bizarre legitimacy...it's like they want their 15min of fame except that it become politically/socially dangerous for them to spread the nonsense...they ahve to be pushed back gently at first then harder to match their own aggression

45 The Hoopster  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:13:10pm

re: #25 Jimmah

Yep - it ain't just biology that these folks have a problem with.

My favorite pure science sites is
The universe today and the daily galaxy..Also The awesome bad astronomy web site was in the ten 10 web sites this year in science..
I don't even like a little dash of fantasy in my science sites...You got tales to tell..Tell em outside..Pure science only thank you

46 Banner  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:13:20pm

*sigh*

WHERE DO THESE PEOPLE COME FROM?

Sorry about that, but this is really starting to drive me nutty. I can understand people wanting to believe what they believe, I see the weirdest stuff here in California all the time, but attacking science? What nest? Flat earthers? Hollow earthers? MIB's?

47 jaunte  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:13:38pm

re: #43 Sharmuta

They're the very model of a critical thinking postmodernist creationist.

48 Basho  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:13:44pm

Linked this in another thread, but reposting so more can enjoy if this is their thing:

Evolving computerchips and antennas:
[Link: www.damninteresting.com...]

49 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:13:49pm

Oh Lord. I Haven't even read the whole thing yet, so I may be talking out of turn. But radiometric dating? Let's just ignore every scientific principle we know. That surely makes it a lot easier to dismiss any scientific evidence against one's beliefs. While they're at it, why don't they question whether water freezes at 32 °F (0 °C). Now I'll go read it.

50 nyc redneck  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:13:53pm

pseudo science is a dangerous thing.

51 freedombilly  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:13:55pm

You have to cast an ever wider net when you are attacking the truth.

52 davinvalkri  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:14:49pm

re: #46 Banner

*sigh*

WHERE DO THESE PEOPLE COME FROM?

Sorry about that, but this is really starting to drive me nutty. I can understand people wanting to believe what they believe, I see the weirdest stuff here in California all the time, but attacking science? What nest? Flat earthers? Hollow earthers? MIB's?

Flat earthers, yes. MIBs, just look at any old conspiracy theory. Hollow earthers? Depends on your definition of "hollow", but I'm sure you'll find someone who thinks the Earth is the universe's equivalent of a candy wrapper minus the sweet sweet chocolate inside.

53 HelloDare  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:15:00pm

The left will pretend that all conservatives believe this garbage. Look what they did to Palin. That's why Jindal is a huge problem for Republicans.

54 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:15:48pm

Of course they'd be upset about space science.
The dinosaurs died in the Flood.
Not due to some rock from space.

/

55 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:15:56pm
. . . the seven who are Young Earth Creationists (YECs)—will attempt to make changes to the ESS standards in ways that will damage the scientific integrity and accuracy of the course. In particular, these SBOE members will try to negatively modify or delete the standards that require students to understand the following topics that deal with scientific topics they consider controversial: age of the Earth and universe, radiometric dating, evolution of fossil life, and the origin of life by abiotic chemical processes. These topics are the ones that YECs consider to be controversial; indeed, they are obsessed with them to the exclusion of everything else.

The "controversy" about these topics is that they do not match the religious views of the people against them.

If that isn't a big neon clue that the whole "creationist" bit is an attempt to insert religion and somebody's religious beliefs into schools, I don't know what would be.

56 solomonpanting  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:16:03pm

Riddle me this:

If YEC believe humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time and

Henderson claims dinosaurs died by a giant extraterrestrial impact during Noah's Flood.

why would a cataclysmic event such as this not also have wiped out humans?

57 Maui Girl  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:16:06pm

Egads! OT. Just had a Quebecois in my store asking about OBAMA momentos. Damn. Gonna have to fumigate now.

58 Shug  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:16:26pm
Tom Henderson is a retired NASA engineer whose main occupation now is giving YEC PowerPoint presentations to churches and Sunday Schools about Young Earth Creationism (see [Link: users.hal-pc.org...] and [Link: users.hal-pc.org...] These presentations include such things as the factual creation of the universe by God in six 24-hour days, how Mount St. Helens supports the doctrines of Young Earth Catastrophism and Noah's Flood, and how UFOs are evil manifestations sent to Earth by Satan to deceive Christians (UFOology is very popular and great competition to Velikovskyism, Flood Geology, and Young Earth Creationism, so it must be wrong!). Henderson claims dinosaurs died by a giant extraterrestrial impact during Noah's Flood.


Mr Chezwick , do you want to tell mr McMurphy about the universe?

59 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:16:38pm

re: #35 Fat Jolly Penguin

Where's JCM? He's our resident expert on Turtleism.

JCM is resident expert on a whole lotta interesting things.

60 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:16:43pm

What I can't understand, having been raised in an Evangelical environment, is why the big concern NOW for this. I don't recall this being a big deal at bible school/church when I was growing up (circa 50's - 60's). Why the sensitivity now? I believe in G-D and that this G-D created the universe (or IS the universe when I'm feeling perverse). The idea of Evolution has NEVER bothered me and neither were my parents (or I would've been told their opinion as I was about a lot of other stuff).

It almost smells to me like desperation. The seeming advance of secularism and the hedonism that has appeared simultaneously (if not causally) seems to have driven some "believers" into a frenzied game of tit for tat. I believe it can only be driven by their own lack of faith and it makes Christianity look weak.

61 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:17:07pm

re: #53 HelloDare

The left will pretend that all conservatives believe this garbage. Look what they did to Palin. That's why Jindal is a huge problem for Republicans.

not really...Jindal is just a problem for himself...he has political choices to make and he's making them...I dont see him as a rising star at all...with regard

62 Maui Girl  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:17:17pm

re: #56 solomonpanting

Riddle me this:

If YEC believe humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time and

why would a cataclysmic event such as this not also have wiped out humans?

The damn dinosaurs just bloody well starved to death! Does any of this really matter in the grand scheme of things. We still can't cure cancer, mental illness or BDS.

63 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:17:18pm

re: #50 nyc redneck

pseudo science is a dangerous thing.

Yes, it is! Just last night was a thread about the evolution of micro-organisms that very well may lead to breakthroughs in how scientists and doctors treat infections and other illnesses, and if our science education goes to pot, who knows how many lives that will hurt?

64 davinvalkri  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:18:05pm

re: #63 Sharmuta

Yes, it is! Just last night was a thread about the evolution of micro-organisms that very well may lead to breakthroughs in how scientists and doctors treat infections and other illnesses, and if our science education goes to pot, who knows how many lives that will hurt?

This is why I don't get primitivists or hyper-religious nutjobs like these bozos. Science saves, people! Jesus.

65 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:18:06pm

re: #42 Bloodnok

One of those members "claims dinosaurs died by a giant extraterrestrial impact during Noah's Flood". And this is a guy who potentially has influence on Texas science curriculum.

Umm. *speechless*

66 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:18:09pm

OT : So my wife is down the hall reading to our 4 year old and asks him -

"Should I read The Very Hungry Caterpillar or The Grouchy Ladybug?"

And a thought popped in my head - once Pelosi and Obama work out how they will pay for their need to spend 1 in 4 dollars in the American economy, folks like children's author Eric Carle will see their taxes go way up along with consumer prices while income stays flat.

I could then see Carle do a book that is a version of the Grasshopper and the Ant titled "The Very Pissed Off Ant"

67 ArmyWife  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:18:36pm

All right guys, tomorrow is a big day - for worse or for worser. I am off to bed.

68 tradewind  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:18:40pm

re: #57 Maui Girl

Don't be silly! Slap a signature on a coffee mug and cash in on this idiocy. Take advantage of your geography and promise to show 'em where he ate a hamburger.

69 Macker  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:19:23pm

re: #2 HelloDare

If life is discovered on Mars, heads will explode.

Last night my head almost did that when I saw this...

70 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:19:32pm

YECs have targeted astronomy for a number of years, since even they have the brain-power to realize that if anything if more than 6000 lightyears away, the universe must be more than 6000 years old.

It is in this area that we see some of the most foolish and scientifically illiterate YeC propaganda. One YeC produced a lengthy article claiming that galactic red shift could be explained simply by light passing through reddish interstellar dust; that is, the moron thought that "redshift" meant simply being changed to a reddish color, like light through a glass of cranberry juice.

Another questioned the use of parallax measurements to determine stellar distance, claiming that measurements would have to be made within a tiny fraction of a second of six months apart for these to be valid. His claim stupidly assumed that these measurements involve angles above the horizon rather than position on the celestial sphere.

71 Basho  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:19:36pm

re: #50 nyc redneck

pseudo science is a dangerous thing.

The World Health Organization hoped to eliminate measles completely in Europe by 2010. Thanks to the anti-vaccination pseudoscience movement going on there (and spreading in the US) it isn't going to happen, and real people are dying.

72 HelloDare  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:19:46pm

re: #61 albusteve

not really...Jindal is just a problem for himself...he has political choices to make and he's making them...I dont see him as a rising star at all...with regard

I doubt if his endorsement will be turned down.

73 Shug  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:19:59pm
humans and dinosaurs lived together in historical times.

duh, of course they did. Didn't you ever watch Land of the Lost?

/

74 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:20:20pm

re: #4 karmic_inquisitor

I can understand why they don't like Radiometric Dating - Radiometric dating has been shown to lead to Radiometric pre-marital sex, and you can't have that.

/

You just can't put potassium and argon in the same room together. There's always a breakdown.

75 Maximu§  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:20:44pm

OT

William Ayers turned back at Canadian border

Bravo to the Canadian immigration system!

76 Jimmah  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:20:46pm

There's a major new BBC series on evolution coming soon, presented by David Attenborough. Don't know much more about it at the moment - I just saw a quick 'heads up' preview the other day on tv. Looking forward to it though.

77 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:21:03pm

Oh! Noes!

They've discovered the lack of globular clusters!

78 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:21:17pm

re: #6 HelloDare

They'll just say life on Mars came from the Earth. Hitched a ride on a rock thrown into space by an exploding volcano. Yeah, that's the ticket...

At yeast it came from earth.

79 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:21:20pm

re: #74 unakite

You just can't put potassium and argon in the same room together. There's always a breakdown.

Possums and aardvarks don't get along well either.

80 Shug  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:21:21pm

Q: if you were Obama, how much sleep would you get tonight?

81 Basho  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:21:33pm

re: #76 Jimmah

There's a major new BBC series on evolution coming soon, presented by David Attenborough. Don't know much more about it at the moment - I just saw a quick 'heads up' preview the other day on tv. Looking forward to it though.

Anything by David Attenborough is worth watching =)

82 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:21:51pm

re: #77 jcm

Oh! Noes!

They've discovered the lack of globular clusters!

There's always implants.

83 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:21:56pm

re: #4 karmic_inquisitor

I can understand why they don't like Radiometric Dating - Radiometric dating has been shown to lead to Radiometric pre-marital sex, and you can't have that.

/

Ah the feared breakdown of the nuclear family...

84 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:21:57pm

re: #60 jcw46

I believe it can only be driven by their own lack of faith and it makes Christianity look weak.

I agree.

Jesus said that with God, all things were possible. I guess to Biblical literalists, all things are possible except evolution. Why is this one comment by Jesus not taken as literally as the rest of the Bible?

85 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:22:07pm

re: #69 Macker

Last night my head almost did that when I saw this...

And what is that?

86 tradewind  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:22:12pm

re: #75 Maximu§

Dammit! Better scenario would have been they let him in and WE stop him at the border on the way back.

87 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:22:21pm

re: #80 Shug

Q: if you were Obama, how much sleep would you get tonight?

Do empty suits sleep?

88 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:22:31pm

re: #7 MandyManners

They really and truly are determined to cripple this nation. Shame on them! If they wanna' live in a theocratic nation, might I suggest they move to Afghanistan or Iran?

I know from personal experience that they don't believe it will cripple the nation; committing the US to G-d will only heal what is mortally wounded right now with all the moral relativism and atheistic practices.

re: #63 Sharmuta

Yes, it is! Just last night was a thread about the evolution of micro-organisms that very well may lead to breakthroughs in how scientists and doctors treat infections and other illnesses, and if our science education goes to pot, who knows how many lives that will hurt?

For a true believer saving lives is nothing compared to saving souls for G-d/Jesus/Allah/Whatever.

89 Maui Girl  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:23:16pm

Somewhere in the Bible it states that a day is but a thousand years... I understood this to mean that one of God's day = 1000 of our years. So, God actually took 6000 earth years to finish His creation.

I'm Christian, I believe that things evolve, adapt, whatever. I also believe that we didn't just go BOOM, and here we are, crawling out of the sludge. Too much precision and order in the world for that. Fibonacci ratios are very enlightening.

Sorry for the rant. Still seething from my Obamatron customer. Cheap SOB still didn't buy anything. Should have sold him some kukui nuts and told him everyone from Hawaii will be wearning them tomorrow at the inauguration.

90 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:23:49pm

re: #74 unakite

You just can't put potassium and argon in the same room together. There's always a breakdown.

Nothing worse than an unstable relationship.

91 Shug  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:23:50pm

re: #87 OldLineTexan

Do empty suits sleep?


Senator Byrd seems to

92 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:23:56pm

re: #72 HelloDare

I doubt if his endorsement will be turned down.

probably not...the GoP make it clear what social conservatism means and take it from there I guess...they need to keep religion out of party politics and if so Jindal will simply fall by the wayside...best case that is imo

93 The Hoopster  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:23:58pm

re: #56 solomonpanting

Riddle me this:

If YEC believe humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time and

why would a cataclysmic event such as this not also have wiped out humans?

There is no riddle..Thank gawd for radioactivity and the breakdown of elements.. We can measure damn near of the age of a Star Billions of light years away..we measure decay on our Earth.. It all breaks down the same...Scientist pretty much knows the age of everything..pretty dang close..
I know this for sure cause one time in college we had to do a complete breakdown in stages of U235 to Lead in every stage and element..with the math.. I'm not saying I could do the math.. I'm not saying I didn't know somebody who did..And trust me..it is a long winded math problem..And I tried..But some how I passed..It was a real pretty paper...
/

94 tradewind  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:23:58pm

re: #87 OldLineTexan

I'm sure he's sleeping well now that he's all comfy at Blair House. Mean old Bushies made him rough it at the Hay-Adams for the past two weeks, sleeping on straw pallets...

95 JHW  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:24:07pm

The earth is hollow. "They" are hiding it from us. There's a secret entrance at the North Pole. And the Viking settlers of Greenland got tired of the cold weather, so they yook a hike to a warmer place, that's where they disappeared to. No Shit.

n an attempt at determining where the lost Viking Greenland colony went, Lt. Green , U.S. Navy (early 1900's) says he reviewed the Eskimo traditions. The Eskimos say the Vikings had migrated further and further north, then one day their men found a paradise in the north -- a place the Eskimo had always known about but stayed away from because they believed it to be inhabited by evil spirits. The Viking explorer parties had came back and had told the rest of their Greenland colony of their wonderful discovery. All promptly packed their bags, and singing songs, departed suddenly northward and never returned. The eskimo tradition is that over the ice towards the northwest, in the direction Admiral Peary sighted Crocker land and Cook sighted Bradley land, is a ..."land that is warm; is clothed in summer verdure the year around; is populated by fat caribou and musk-ox. It lies," they say even to this day, "in the direction of the coastal trail-route north." Lt. Green shows that trail on his map. It is located on west side of Greenland, and goes up around Ellesmere Island, and out over the pack ice in a northwest direction towards the land he claimed exists in the "Unexplored Area." That is the same area I have estimate the North Polar Opening is located.


Apollo Missions Prove the Earth is Hollow
/

96 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:24:19pm

re: #91 Shug

Senator Byrd seems to

Those are empty sheets.

97 davinvalkri  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:24:26pm

re: #71 Basho

The World Health Organization hoped to eliminate measles completely in Europe by 2010. Thanks to the anti-vaccination pseudoscience movement going on there (and spreading in the US) it isn't going to happen, and real people are dying.

*is now pounding head into the wall*
Dammit! Let's all make an agreement right now; if someone starts spouting off pseudoscience, don't give a damn about manners, CORRECT HIM! Maybe we can avert something like this from happening in the future.
/And maybe my head-pounding will do something other that kill brain cells.

98 Macker  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:24:32pm

re: #85 Walter L. Newton

A Thirteenth Tribe [NOT Colonial!] Cylon Centurion from Sometimes A Great Notion. Pass me some chamalla, I'm gonna need it bad!

99 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:24:42pm

re: #75 Maximu§

OT

William Ayers turned back at Canadian border

Bravo to the Canadian immigration system!

Love it, a quote by someone in the article "To me this is an issue of academic freedom." No jerkwad, it's an issue of border security. These academics are so deluded that they think the whole world should revolve around the fact that they are "smart."

100 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:24:50pm

re: #53 HelloDare

The left will pretend that all conservatives believe this garbage. Look what they did to Palin. That's why Jindal is a huge problem for Republicans.

There is now only a Republican wing of the Democrat party. Turns out the ENTIRE PARTY was R.I.N.O. Hah!

101 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:24:52pm

re: #71 Basho

The World Health Organization hoped to eliminate measles completely in Europe by 2010. Thanks to the anti-vaccination pseudoscience movement going on there (and spreading in the US) it isn't going to happen, and real people are dying.

Saving lives is just a thing of the moment while saving souls is for eternity. Or at least according to a couple of acquaintances who are true believers.

102 Jimmah  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:25:08pm

Speaking of David Attenborough - here he is with some amazing footage of the bird world's finest mimic, the lyrebird:

103 Bloodnok  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:25:08pm

re: #87 OldLineTexan

Do empty suits sleep?

Do empty suits dream of electric waffles?

104 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:25:15pm

re: #71 Basho

The World Health Organization hoped to eliminate measles completely in Europe by 2010. Thanks to the anti-vaccination pseudoscience movement going on there (and spreading in the US) it isn't going to happen, and real people are dying.

That will be a real-time example of Darwinism at work.

105 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:25:43pm
106 freedombilly  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:26:20pm

re: #63 Sharmuta

Yes, it is! Just last night was a thread about the evolution of micro-organisms that very well may lead to breakthroughs in how scientists and doctors treat infections and other illnesses, and if our science education goes to pot, who knows how many lives that will hurt?

Very well said Sharmuta.

107 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:26:23pm

re: #19 davinvalkri

What? "Brontosaurus" is a paleontological hoax, isn't it? And the whole "humans with dinos" gag is a creationist one. Or is this some kind of Flintstones reference?
/they're the modern stone age family...and probably more modern than these lunatics.

Brontosauruses (Brontosauri?) have to be real. I saw one in the dinosaur museum in Pigeon Forge, TN (they wouldn't let kids get on).

108 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:26:52pm

re: #103 Bloodnok

Do empty suits dream of electric waffles?

Do electric waffle irons really care?

109 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:27:26pm

re: #95 JHW

The earth is hollow. "They" are hiding it from us. There's a secret entrance at the North Pole. And the Viking settlers of Greenland got tired of the cold weather, so they yook a hike to a warmer place, that's where they disappeared to. No Shit.


Apollo Missions Prove the Earth is Hollow
/

Good grief!

110 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:27:45pm

re: #98 Macker

A Thirteenth Tribe [NOT Colonial!] Cylon Centurion from Sometimes A Great Notion. Pass me some chamalla, I'm gonna need it bad!

I'm just wondering how a link to that picture has anything to do with the subject of this thread or even any of the OT subjects on this thread?

111 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:27:47pm

re: #70 Shiplord Kirel

YECs have targeted astronomy for a number of years, since even they have the brain-power to realize that if anything if more than 6000 lightyears away, the universe must be more than 6000 years old.

Yeah, this stuff is all in our own galaxy.
(It's just very, very small.)

/You know, like that galaxy in Men In Black II

112 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:27:57pm
113 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:28:16pm

re: #100 jcw46

There is now only a Republican wing of the Democrat party. Turns out the ENTIRE PARTY was R.I.N.O. Hah!

the GoP is a friggin mess everyone knows...be interesting to see how they handle their status with BO, Pelosi, and Harry on their rampage

114 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:28:52pm

re: #95 JHW

The only thing this proves is that there is no gravity, the earth sucks. ;)

115 avanti  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:29:09pm

Maybe by pushing the envelope for the silly to the ridiculous the people of Texas wii resist being the butt of jokes. We're talking about the education of our children here, not a trifling matter.

116 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:29:10pm

re: #4 karmic_inquisitor

I can understand why they don't like Radiometric Dating - Radiometric dating has been shown to lead to Radiometric pre-marital sex, and you can't have that.

/

If you really have designs on a girl, take her radiometric dancing.

(A while back, a well-known local YeC actually did assert in a letter to the editor that Evil-lution was designed to promote "illicit sex," as well as communism and drug abuse.)

117 tradewind  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:29:22pm

Speaking of idiots: O/T but too good to keep: from The Politico:

AMONG THE GUESTS AT MAUREEN DOWD'S COCKTAIL PARTY LAST NIGHT: Psaki's parents, Josiane and James Psaki, of Greenwich. Jen is the oldest of three girls. Dad wore a Brooks Brothers tie festooned with lions.

AMONG THE WOULD-BE GUESTS WHO COULDN'T GET IN BECAUSE THE HOUSE WAS BURSTING: Ben Affleck and one Bill Keller. Awaiting him in the kitchen was an enormous cake from Cakelove saying, 'Happy Birthday, Bill.' Yesterday was the day.

However, Stephanie Cutter, Jon Favreau, Wendy Morigi, Geoff and Ann Morrell, Erik Smith and Tommy Vietor found their way in, as did Senators Bennett, Casey and Cantwell and show-biz A-listers like George Lucas, Larry David, Tom Hanks and Ron Howard.

OVERHEARD: 'Is that Kate Blanchette?' 'No, that's Jennifer Tapper.'

MAUREEN had a patriotic theme and even added a red, white and blue bow to the grille of her man-magnet Mustang 289 convertible out front.

118 Shug  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:29:23pm

re: #112 taxfreekiller

ya, but,

Can you tax electric waffles?


yes, but only the wealthy waffle eaters will pay

119 Macker  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:29:54pm

re: #110 Walter L. Newton

The evolutionary path of the Toasters...

120 Cognito  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:29:55pm

re: #3 Shug

Any supporters of these people still want to tell us that the creationists ideas aren't dangerous... ?

just debate? Present both sides, let the kids decide?...

Bullshit : These people are dangerous

Creationist ideas aren't really dangerous, per se. People walk around carrying all sorts of ideas in their heads that aren't right, and yet aren't dangerous. Per se, as I said.

This crap in Texas however, is outrageous.

121 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:30:19pm

re: #101 FurryOldGuyJeans

Saving lives is just a thing of the moment while saving souls is for eternity. Or at least according to a couple of acquaintances who are true believers.

This is something sick- like Potter telling George Bailey he's worth more dead than alive. It's foul and rank hypocrisy. They tell us to value life in the womb, but if science can keep you alive, then death is better? Disgusting.

122 The Hoopster  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:30:24pm

re: #113 albusteve

the GoP is a friggin mess everyone knows...be interesting to see how they handle their status with BO, Pelosi, and Harry on their rampage

Cavs vs.Lakers in 10 minutes.. I think It's a preview of the Finals..
I'm jacked..popcorn is hot..

123 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:30:40pm

re: #95 JHW

The earth is hollow. "They" are hiding it from us. There's a secret entrance at the North Pole. And the Viking settlers of Greenland got tired of the cold weather, so they yook a hike to a warmer place, that's where they disappeared to. No Shit.


Apollo Missions Prove the Earth is Hollow
/

Where the hell do you think we hide the chemtrail airplanes?

124 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:30:54pm

re: #70 Shiplord Kirel

YECs have targeted astronomy for a number of years, since even they have the brain-power to realize that if anything if more than 6000 lightyears away, the universe must be more than 6000 years old.

It is in this area that we see some of the most foolish and scientifically illiterate YeC propaganda. One YeC produced a lengthy article claiming that galactic red shift could be explained simply by light passing through reddish interstellar dust; that is, the moron thought that "redshift" meant simply being changed to a reddish color, like light through a glass of cranberry juice.

Another questioned the use of parallax measurements to determine stellar distance, claiming that measurements would have to be made within a tiny fraction of a second of six months apart for these to be valid. His claim stupidly assumed that these measurements involve angles above the horizon rather than position on the celestial sphere.

Do the YeC's believe that the Universe and the Earth were created at exactly the same time?

125 Shug  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:31:00pm

re: #120 Cognito

Creationist ideas aren't really dangerous, per se. People walk around carrying all sorts of ideas in their heads that aren't right, and yet aren't dangerous. Per se, as I said.

This crap in Texas however, is outrageous.

That's what I said, perhaps not as clealy as I would like. These people are dangerous.

126 Bloodnok  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:31:06pm

Oh the irony of this gem from the second minority report: "I found an almost continual aggressive, dogmatic tone to much of the ESS standards."

Well, a guy who created a "scientific" presentation called "Rocks of Our Lord, Our Lord Rocks!" would certainly know all about dogma, would he not?

127 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:31:14pm

re: #116 Shiplord Kirel

If you really have designs on a girl, take her radiometric dancing.

(A while back, a well-known local YeC actually did assert in a letter to the editor that Evil-lution was designed to promote "illicit sex," as well as communism and drug abuse.)

Gee, you mean he actually left out halitosis of the blow-hole and the heartbreak of psoriasis?
///

128 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:31:20pm

re: #119 Macker

The evolutionary path of the Toasters...

Never mind, enjoy your adult beverage.

129 solomonpanting  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:31:40pm

re: #122 HoosierHoops

Cavs vs.Lakers in 10 minutes.. I think It's a preview of the Finals..
I'm jacked..popcorn is hot..

I still don't believe the Lakers have the defense to win it all.

130 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:32:02pm

re: #121 Sharmuta

This is something sick- like Potter telling George Bailey he's worth more dead than alive. It's foul and rank hypocrisy. They tell us to value life in the womb, but if science can keep you alive, then death is better? Disgusting.

I know they have never really thought through their professed beliefs, because I came out of the same woods they are in by doing so.

131 Basho  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:32:08pm

re: #115 avanti

We're talking about the education of our children here, not a trifling matter.

It's a trifling matter when one views children as a lump of Rousseauian clay that one can mold to their liking...

132 itellu3times  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:32:15pm

re: #122 HoosierHoops

Cavs vs.Lakers in 10 minutes.. I think It's a preview of the Finals..
I'm jacked..popcorn is hot..

Go Lakers!

133 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:32:42pm

re: #122 HoosierHoops

Cavs vs.Lakers in 10 minutes.. I think It's a preview of the Finals..
I'm jacked..popcorn is hot..

could be...it may be LeBrons' time at last...he wants to leave doesnt he?...or was that a rumor?

134 JHW  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:33:02pm

re: #123 jcm

I didn't think of that one, I 'd better let that guy know. Do you mean the ones loaded with Alar or the ones painted black?

135 swamprat  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:33:11pm

What about the abiotic origin of life? Is this not pretty speculative?
Are there more than one theories about this? (bsaic, not the petty bickering scientist are prone to engage in)

Anyone, please answer before the food fight breaks out.

136 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:33:17pm

re: #119 Macker

The evolutionary path of the Toasters...

Was one of them this toaster?

137 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:33:17pm

re: #113 albusteve

the GoP is a friggin mess everyone knows...be interesting to see how they handle their status with BO, Pelosi, and Harry on their rampage

My guess is they will vote "present". I don't think there's anybody currently out there who has the stones to stand up to the withering cover fire the MSM will be laying down for BO- at least for the next 12 months.

138 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:33:42pm

re: #89 Maui Girl

Somewhere in the Bible it states that a day is but a thousand years... I understood this to mean that one of God's day = 1000 of our years. So, God actually took 6000 earth years to finish His creation.

This is what you're referring to:

2 Peter 3:8–9 reads:

‘But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.’

The first thing to note that the context has nothing to do with the days of creation. Also, it is not defining a day because it doesn’t say ‘a day is a thousand years’. The correct understanding is derived from the context — the Apostle Peter’s readers should not lose heart because God seems slow at fulfilling His promises because He is patient, and also because He is not bound by time as we are.

That about sums it up.

139 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:33:52pm

re: #134 JHW

I didn't think of that one, I 'd better let that guy know. Do you mean the ones loaded with Alar or the ones painted black?

We got all kinds, even some that look like bigfoot and UFOs.

140 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:33:59pm

re: #135 swamprat

Anyone, please answer before the food fight breaks out.

Will the food be abiotic?
/

141 sattv4u2  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:34:05pm

re: #122 HoosierHoops

Cavs vs.Lakers in 10 minutes.. I think It's a preview of the Finals..
I'm jacked..popcorn is hot..

Ta be The Champ, Ya Gotta Beat The Champ.

The Celtics will still have something to say about this!

142 The Hoopster  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:34:19pm

re: #129 solomonpanting

I still don't believe the Lakers have the defense to win it all.

After the finals last year, I couldn't agree with you more...

143 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:34:22pm

re: #124 Oh no...Sand People!

Do the YeC's believe that the Universe and the Earth were created at exactly the same time?

Pretty much so, see Genesis I

144 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:34:32pm

re: #42 Bloodnok

Charming tactics. Two members of the ESS (appointed by like-thinking SBOE members) tried to sink the ESS's own course standards by sending a secret "minority report" to the Board of Education without informing the rest of the ESS.

One of those members "claims dinosaurs died by a giant extraterrestrial impact during Noah's Flood". And this is a guy who potentially has influence on Texas science curriculum.

I must be missing something. Why would they need an extraterrestrial impact to kill dinosaurs "during Noah's Flood"? wouldn't the flood do that?

145 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:34:32pm

re: #123 jcm

Where the hell do you think we hide the chemtrail airplanes?

For any LOST fans here, the hollow earth concept is one of the theories that fans have floated as to the actual LOCATION of the Island, it being actually a control environment in the Arctic in the "missing" land a the north.

There was a WHOLE lot of hints about "north" in the first 3 seasons.

146 freedombilly  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:34:51pm

re: #122 HoosierHoops

Cavs vs.Lakers in 10 minutes.. I think It's a preview of the Finals..
I'm jacked..popcorn is hot..

The Celtics will be ready to go by May as they have already come out of their funk. Their team defense will earn them home court. I predict Celtics/Hornets in spite of the fact that LeBron is the best player in the NBA.

147 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:35:13pm

re: #137 CIA Reject

My guess is they will vote "present". I don't think there's anybody currently out there who has the stones to stand up to the withering cover fire the MSM will be laying down for BO- at least for the next 12 months.

I thought that was a hell of an idea...we need some color back DC!...shove some of that right back at BO

148 jaunte  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:35:45pm

re: #135 swamprat

A physicist, a chemist, and a mathematician are stranded on a desert isle, when a can of food washes up on the beach. The three starving scientists suggest, in turn, how to open the can and ease their hunger. The physicist suggests they hurl it upon the rocks to split it open, but this fails. The chemist proposes they soak it in the sea and let the salt water eat away at the metal; again, no luck. They turn in desperation to the mathematician, who begins, “Assume we have a can opener….”

149 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:35:59pm

re: #144 unakite

I must be missing something. Why would they need an extraterrestrial impact to kill dinosaurs "during Noah's Flood"? wouldn't the flood do that?

Now put that Ockham's razor away! You're gonna hurt somebody!

150 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:36:23pm

re: #148 jaunte

Ok, so then what happens? ;)

151 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:36:31pm

re: #47 jaunte

They're the very model of a critical thinking postmodernist creationist.

Deconstructionist?

152 Basho  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:36:58pm

re: #148 jaunte

A physicist, a chemist, and a mathematician are stranded on a desert isle, when a can of food washes up on the beach. The three starving scientists suggest, in turn, how to open the can and ease their hunger. The physicist suggests they hurl it upon the rocks to split it open, but this fails. The chemist proposes they soak it in the sea and let the salt water eat away at the metal; again, no luck. They turn in desperation to the mathematician, who begins, “Assume we have a can opener….”

I heard that joke with economists in place of mathematician... It makes a lot more sense with economist in there.

153 avanti  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:37:02pm

re: #70 Shiplord Kirel

YECs have targeted astronomy for a number of years, since even they have the brain-power to realize that if anything if more than 6000 lightyears away, the universe must be more than 6000 years old.

Silly you, the speed of light has changed./s

light speed.

154 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:37:08pm

re: #143 Shiplord Kirel

Pretty much so, see Genesis I

But...but...it's so much easier to skim off of others. Do my OWN research...

/the nerve.

155 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:37:10pm

re: #140 karmic_inquisitor

Will the food be abiotic?
/

Irradiated.

156 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:37:15pm

re: #147 albusteve

I thought that was a hell of an idea...we need some color back DC!...shove some of that right back at BO

Actually I think electing Michael Steele chairman of the RNC would be a very good start on a long road back..

157 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:37:57pm

re: #54 Dar ul Harb

Of course they'd be upset about space science.
The dinosaurs died in the Flood.
Not due to some rock from space.

/

Darn. You beat me to it.

158 davinvalkri  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:38:07pm

re: #153 avanti

Silly you, the speed of light has changed./s

light speed.

The speed of light always changes when it travels from one material to another. If it's just a vacuum, the speed of light is always that 3.0 * 10 ^ 8 m/s.

159 jaunte  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:38:22pm

re: #152 Basho

Yes, you're right. Could work with a Congressman, too.

160 Noam Sayin'  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:38:34pm

re: #146 freedombilly

It will be a replay of last year's championship.

161 The Hoopster  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:38:36pm

re: #141 sattv4u2

Ta be The Champ, Ya Gotta Beat The Champ.

The Celtics will still have something to say about this!

You know Satt.. I think the lesson that can be learned the last couple of years in any sport.. It's who gets hot in the play-offs..Nothing else even matters.
/Working tonight?

162 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:38:43pm

re: #47 jaunte

They're the very model of a critical thinking postmodernist creationist.

Is that anything like being a very model of a modern Major-General?

163 KingKenrod  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:38:59pm
age of the Earth and universe, radiometric dating, evolution of fossil life, and the origin of life by abiotic chemical processes

I've seen some interesting experiments about the abiotic origin of life, but nothing approaching success in accurately describing the process. Scientists should be careful about stating something as unassailable fact when they can't back it up with solid evidence - they are basically doing exactly what the ID crowd accuses them of doing.

164 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:39:04pm

re: #153 avanti

Silly you, the speed of light has changed./s

Then they came for Einstein.

165 itellu3times  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:39:40pm

re: #135 swamprat

What about the abiotic origin of life? Is this not pretty speculative?
Are there more than one theories about this? (bsaic, not the petty bickering scientist are prone to engage in)

Anyone, please answer before the food fight breaks out.

There are a dozen theories about anything and everything in science. Sometimes the differences are tiny, sometimes they are huge.

The general idea is that carbon compounds try out every possible configuration, that some fairly simple configuration is enough to get RNA and DNA cycles going, they are then stabilized by acquiring membranes, and that all of this is good clean thermodynamic, stochastic fun that may be going on on billions of planets in millions of galaxies all over the place.

It barely gets interesting until you try to figure out the odds of developing higher animals and, y'know, human levels of intelligence.

It's not clear in how many places in the universe, conditions are sufficiently stable to allow the billions of years it took, here. Stuff blows up a lot, out there in space, making big huge areas, even entire galaxies, a whole lot more violent than around here. Can live evolve there, survive there, thrive there? We dunno. Hey, can it be created and survive there? Answer me that, creationists!

166 Basho  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:40:11pm

re: #158 davinvalkri

Read the link.

167 sattv4u2  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:40:14pm

re: #161 HoosierHoops

You know Satt.. I think the lesson that can be learned the last couple of years in any sport.. It's who gets hot in the play-offs..Nothing else even matters.
/Working tonight?

yup , just got here (well ,, about an hour ago). Doing the lakers/ cavs for TNT

168 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:40:26pm

re: #163 KingKenrod

re: #165 itellu3times

Hey, you both have the same avatars, food fight.

169 Noam Sayin'  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:40:34pm

re: #156 CIA Reject

Actually I think electing Michael Steele chairman of the RNC would be a very good start on a long road back..

I'd like to see a Steele/Palin ticket in 2012. Imagine the possibilities for the RNC if Obama really screws things up in the next four years.

170 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:40:36pm

re: #156 CIA Reject

Actually I think electing Michael Steele chairman of the RNC would be a very good start on a long road back..

the GoP needs to rewrite what principle it stands on...define social and economic conservatism...get people connected again...find some dynamic leaders that are media and net savvy and here Steele would be a good start I agree

171 freedombilly  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:40:50pm

re: #160 Noam Sayin'

It will be a replay of last year's championship.

I'll take it since it would mean the Celtics have a crack at it. Kobe is the second best player in the league but I have a very hard time rooting for him considering his past. And I'm a Celtics fan. The imagine of Magic's sky hook in '87 from the top of the key is all to crisp in my mind.

But so is last season's finals:)

172 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:41:02pm

re: #168 Walter L. Newton

re: #165 itellu3times

Hey, you both have the same avatars, food fight.

I almost wanted to ask If I could change my username too...til I noticed them both...

173 davinvalkri  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:41:04pm

re: #166 Basho

... ... ... ... ... ...
...idiots...

174 Maui Girl  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:41:04pm

re: #138 jcw46

Thanks.

175 Racer X  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:41:04pm

A respected man once asked all of us to "not judge people by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character". I have always tried to do that, and believe strongly that I did so on November 4th, 2008.

I will continue to do so, for I believe we are all created equal in the Creator's eyes.

Dr. King, thank you for your sacrifice. You are remembered on this day for the hope that you brought to those who were repressed only because of the color of their skin. Let us all hope those days are behind us.

"Now is the time to lift our nation from the quicksand of racial injustice to the solid rock of brotherhood. Now is the time to make justice a reality for all of God's children."

"Let freedom ring. And when this happens, and when we allow freedom ring—when we let it ring from every village and every hamlet, from every state and every city, we will be able to speed up that day when all of God's children—black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics—will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old Negro spiritual: "Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!"

176 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:41:52pm

re: #138 jcw46

This is what you're referring to:

2 Peter 3:8–9 reads:

‘But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.’

The first thing to note that the context has nothing to do with the days of creation. Also, it is not defining a day because it doesn’t say ‘a day is a thousand years’. The correct understanding is derived from the context — the Apostle Peter’s readers should not lose heart because God seems slow at fulfilling His promises because He is patient, and also because He is not bound by time as we are.

That about sums it up.

FWIW, there is a Portuguese Physicist out there (forgot his name but will look it up) who has published a theory that the speed of light had changed in the early moments of the big bang, which means time ticked at a different pace.

But another thing to note on time is how gravity affects it. To the external observer, time slows as an object approaches the speed of light. Well if you consider a black hole for a moment, it is a place (by definition) where light itself is not fast enough to escape. The time implications are mind-bending - something falling into a black hole will take forever to get there. Russian Physicists call Black Holes "Frozen Stars" for this reason - they are theoretically "Frozen" as the hole itself is as much a time sink as a gravity sink.

Point being that time has a certain variability to it when around an ultra dense area, and the big bang was ultra ultra dense.

177 Maximu§  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:41:57pm

Garth Brooks on HBO

178 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:42:05pm

re: #169 Noam Sayin'

I'd like to see a Steele/Palin ticket in 2012. Imagine the possibilities for the RNC if Obama really screws things up in the next four years.

That would be interesting... Lotsa possibilities for cranial detonations throughout the MSM with that one...

179 mich-again  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:42:41pm

I hope everyone realizes that its going to be like playing whack a mole forever with these people.

180 avanti  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:42:48pm

re: #120 Cognito

Creationist ideas aren't really dangerous, per se. People walk around carrying all sorts of ideas in their heads that aren't right, and yet aren't dangerous. Per se, as I said.

This crap in Texas however, is outrageous.

I agree, there private faith is none of my business as long as they don't push it on the rest of us.

181 Maximu§  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:42:58pm

~Drove the Chevy through the levy, but the levy was dry...~

182 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:43:08pm
183 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:43:08pm

I have been involved in the Texas creation battles for about 25 years.

This is a hard (and infuriatingly unnecessary) fight, but it is not hopeless. Texas has hordes of creationists, to be sure, but it also has a quite a few earth scientists, mostly because of the dominant role of agriculture and the oil industry in the state's economy. For the same reason, there are a great many lay-people affiliated with those industries who understand the issues, and the importance of real science.

184 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:43:32pm

re: #170 albusteve

the GoP needs to rewrite what principle it stands on...define social and economic conservatism...get people connected again...find some dynamic leaders that are media and net savvy and here Steele would be a good start I agree

Absolutely. The entire GOP platform has to be re-written and the differences with the democrat's platform need to be emphasized.

185 JHW  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:43:39pm

The James Randi Educational Forums are a great resource for skeptics in general. Some of the threads debunking conspiracy theories are quite entertaining.

186 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:43:46pm

re: #179 mich-again

I hope everyone realizes that its going to be like playing whack a mole forever with these people.

Good cardio work out.

187 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:43:52pm

re: #171 freedombilly

I'll take it since it would mean the Celtics have a crack at it. Kobe is the second best player in the league but I have a very hard time rooting for him considering his past. And I'm a Celtics fan. The imagine of Magic's sky hook in '87 from the top of the key is all to crisp in my mind.

But so is last season's finals:)

the sky hook was Kareems shot...Magic had the baby hook...unstoppable

188 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:43:55pm

re: #180 avanti

I agree, there private faith is none of my business as long as they don't push it on the rest of us.

But they're trying to do just that- to our kids and using public school science classrooms to do it.

189 davinvalkri  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:43:56pm

re: #183 Shiplord Kirel

I have been involved in the Texas creation battles for about 25 years.

This is a hard (and infuriatingly unnecessary) fight, but it is not hopeless. Texas has hordes of creationists, to be sure, but it also has a quite a few earth scientists, mostly because of the dominant role of agriculture and the oil industry in the state's economy. For the same reason, there are a great many lay-people affiliated with those industries who understand the issues, and the importance of real science.

Go, fight, win! LGF is behind you!

190 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:44:21pm

re: #120 Cognito

Creationist ideas aren't really dangerous, per se.

True dat. Dangerous is the wrong word.

Armed robbers are dangerous. Nuclear mullahs are dangerous. Texas creationists are annoying and illogical and should be patiently confronted with facts. This therapy works over time.

191 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:44:24pm

re: #79 experiencedtraveller

Possums and aardvarks don't get along well either.

Possums are easy. they just roll over and play dead. Aardvarks...well, I don't know what they do.

192 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:44:34pm

re: #176 karmic_inquisitor

FWIW, there is a Portuguese Physicist out there (forgot his name but will look it up) who has published a theory that the speed of light had changed in the early moments of the big bang, which means time ticked at a different pace.

But another thing to note on time is how gravity affects it. To the external observer, time slows as an object approaches the speed of light. Well if you consider a black hole for a moment, it is a place (by definition) where light itself is not fast enough to escape. The time implications are mind-bending - something falling into a black hole will take forever to get there. Russian Physicists call Black Holes "Frozen Stars" for this reason - they are theoretically "Frozen" as the hole itself is as much a time sink as a gravity sink.

Point being that time has a certain variability to it when around an ultra dense area, and the big bang was ultra ultra dense.

That kind of stuff gives me mental contortions...the good kind...not the lib kind.

193 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:45:02pm

re: #169 Noam Sayin'

I'd like to see a Steele/Palin ticket in 2012. Imagine the possibilities for the RNC if Obama really screws things up in the next four years.

If, you say? I think that possibility is nigh on a certainty, you know.

But you DID qualify it by saying "really". The odds, while lower, still are remarkably high. Too high for my tastes.

194 Ay, Caramba  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:45:37pm

Where did the stuff that "banged" really big come from? Was it always there? If it was a wave was it always there?

195 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:46:09pm

re: #165 itellu3times

It barely gets interesting until you try to figure out the odds of developing higher animals and, y'know, human levels of intelligence.

Instapundit had a good link about that recently.

Apparently there is some concern that the chance of the mitochondria fusing with the ancestors of the eukayotes are a limiting step.

(But, then again, chloroplasts did much the same thing in plant evolution, so there's at least some hope there.)

196 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:46:24pm

re: #194 Ay, Caramba

Where did the stuff that "banged" really big come from? Was it always there? If it was a wave was it always there?

It was always there.

197 avanti  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:46:38pm

re: #177 Maximu§

Garth Brooks on HBO

Be careful, Pete Seeger is coming up and he was a Commie before WW II. /s Great concert, even if you don't like the sponsor.

198 Red Sea Desjardini Tang  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:46:41pm

Devolutionary Theory tells us that this would happen. Some evolve some devolve.

199 MJ  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:47:06pm

Mexican Billionaire Invests in Times Company

The New York Times Company said Monday it had reached an agreement with the Mexican billionaire Carlos Slim Helú for a $250 million loan intended to help the newspaper company finance its businesses.

Under the terms of the deal, Mr. Slim, who already owns 6.9 percent of the Times Company, would invest $250 million in the form of six-year notes with warrants that are convertible into common shares, the company said in a statement. The notes also carry a 14 percent interest rate, with 11 percent paid in cash and 3 percent in additional bonds...

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

200 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:47:13pm

Found the name of the Cosmologist with the Variable Light Speed Theory.

João Magueijo

It is a mind blowing theory that actually plugs some holes in the understanding of early stages of the big bang.

201 The Hoopster  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:47:17pm

re: #167 sattv4u2

yup , just got here (well ,, about an hour ago). Doing the lakers/ cavs for TNT

Who the heck is doing the play by play on your feed? I thhink it's Johnson..Like when Kode goes for a dunk he screams like his brain is going to blow up live..He gets so jacked up by the 4th quarter we take bets if somebody is going to call 9-11 for his heart attack. The guy goes upper freqs in the 4th quarter.. I love that dude...

202 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:47:20pm

re: #186 jcm

Good cardio work out.

heh...ooof...metaphorically for me :)

203 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:47:28pm

re: #194 Ay, Caramba

Where did the stuff that "banged" really big come from? Was it always there? If it was a wave was it always there?

Time to do some studying into Quantum Mechanics for them answers.

204 Basho  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:47:43pm

re: #191 unakite

Aardvarks...well, I don't know what they do.

African safari guides refuse to drive in aardvark territory! It is because they are the most feared animal of the land!

(Actually, the holes they dig cause their trucks to get stuck)

205 Racer X  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:48:09pm

re: #194 Ay, Caramba

Where did the stuff that "banged" really big come from? Was it always there? If it was a wave was it always there?

The universe is expanding. At some point it will stop expanding and begin to contract - and continue to contract until everything collapses inward into a big bang.

Repeat.

206 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:48:34pm

re: #180 avanti

I agree, there private faith is none of my business as long as they don't push it on the rest of us.

but they are...thats the point

207 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:48:34pm

re: #199 MJ

Mexican Billionaire Invests in Times Company

The New York Times Company said Monday it had reached an agreement with the Mexican billionaire Carlos Slim Helú for a $250 million loan intended to help the newspaper company finance its businesses.

Under the terms of the deal, Mr. Slim, who already owns 6.9 percent of the Times Company, would invest $250 million in the form of six-year notes with warrants that are convertible into common shares, the company said in a statement. The notes also carry a 14 percent interest rate, with 11 percent paid in cash and 3 percent in additional bonds...

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

The selling of America. My grandfather worked for the times for over 30 years, he would puke if he read this.

208 Ay, Caramba  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:48:47pm

re: #196 Walter L. Newton

my head hurts

209 CynicalConservative  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:48:49pm

re: #177 Maximu§

Garth Brooks on HBO

One more reason not to watch.

210 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:48:53pm

re: #194 Ay, Caramba

Where did the stuff that "banged" really big come from? Was it always there? If it was a wave was it always there?

My opinion is that matter can not be created or destroyed. It, matter, element, etc. has always existed and the element is eternal...In my unscientific opinion.
It can be organized and reorganized, but not created.

211 davinvalkri  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:49:04pm

re: #205 Racer X

The universe is expanding. At some point it will stop expanding and begin to contract - and continue to contract until everything collapses inward into a big bang crunch?.

I think that works better.

212 Shug  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:49:21pm

re: #207 Walter L. Newton

The selling of America. My grandfather worked for the times for over 30 years, he would puke if he read this.

Will they change the name to the New York Tiempos?

213 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:49:33pm

re: #196 Walter L. Newton

It was always there.

According to one paper I read there was no there (or here or anywhere) before the bang. And nothing happened before the beginning at the BB.

214 swamprat  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:49:34pm

re: #165 itellu3times

From what i understand, silicone is just as adaptive as carbon.

215 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:49:40pm

Wait, wait, wait. Just hold on one second. Do you mean to tell me these people are after more than just equal time for Intelligent Design in science class?

I dunno about you Lizards, but I am beginning to suspect this group has ulterior motives.

/

216 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:49:42pm

Behead those who insult the Turtle Stack!

217 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:49:53pm

re: #182 Iron Fist

That would actually probably be a very smart thing to do. The Democrats are going to probably try to graft a "bipartisan" veneer onto whatever is coming out of Congress, if for no other reason than to be able to blame the Republicans when things go wrong.

Agreed- it's the best of a number of sh*tty options. If they do the "bi-partisan" thing the GOP loses even more of it's identity and if they try to mount an opposition the MSM will tar them as "obstructionist".

So why not vote "present"? After all look what it did for BO...

218 avanti  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:49:57pm

re: #188 Sharmuta

But they're trying to do just that- to our kids and using public school science classrooms to do it.

That's the issue, I agree Just wondered why he got a ding for talking about their private belief and jumped in.

219 davinvalkri  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:49:59pm

re: #210 Oh no...Sand People!

My opinion is that matter can not be created or destroyed. It, matter, element, etc. has always existed and the element is eternal...In my unscientific opinion.
It can be organized and reorganized, but not created.

Unless you decide to turn it into energy...hehehehe...annihilation reactions for the win!

220 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:50:57pm

re: #207 Walter L. Newton

The selling of America. My grandfather worked for the times for over 30 years, he would puke if he read this.

the Japanese owned Pebble Beach for awhile back in the 80s...

221 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:51:00pm

re: #90 karmic_inquisitor

Nothing worse than an unstable relationship.

Especially if it goes on for millions of years (oops. I didn't say that. 6000 is the limit, right?).

222 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:51:05pm

re: #179 mich-again

I hope everyone realizes that its going to be like playing whack a mole forever with these people.

Or at least until we go blind-

What?

Oh, never mind..

223 Macker  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:51:07pm

re: #212 Shug

Will they change the name to the New Nuevo York Tiempos?

There, fixed that for ya!

224 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:51:36pm

re: #219 davinvalkri

Unless you decide to turn it into energy...hehehehe...annihilation reactions for the win!

If E=MC^2

Then MC^2=E

So shouldn't we be able to convert mass to energy and vise versa?

Can we do it now?

225 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:51:44pm

re: #191 unakite

Possums are easy. they just roll over and play dead. Aardvarks...well, I don't know what they do.

Frankly I don't know what aardvarks do either. But please keep me informed about any further research on the subect. ;)

226 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:51:48pm

re: #213 FurryOldGuyJeans

According to one paper I read there was no there (or here or anywhere) before the bang. And nothing happened before the beginning at the BB.

I've not heard that one. I can understand "forever something" easier than the concept of "forever nothing."

227 sngnsgt  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:51:57pm

re: #80 Shug

Q: if you were Obama, how much sleep would you get tonight?

4 years.

228 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:51:57pm

re: #207 Walter L. Newton

The selling of America. My grandfather worked for the times for over 30 years, he would puke if he read this.

Now it is the Mexicans doing what the Japanese were doing back in the 80's and 90's.

229 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:52:05pm
230 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:52:06pm

re: #194 Ay, Caramba

Where did the stuff that "banged" really big come from? Was it always there? If it was a wave was it always there?

It is a singularity. We can only speculate as to what came before it or where "it" (and now "we") sit.

Some movie I once saw had, as its end sequence, our universe contained in a marble that some creatures elsewhere were using in a game of marbles. that is as valid an assumption/ guess as any other because we can never know anything from before that point.

Which, BTW, allows for the existence of a creator.

231 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:52:06pm
Critical thinking is a key learning skill all students are expected to learn in both public schools and higher educational institutions. Elimination of all "strengths and weaknesses" phrases substantially weakens this important requirement.

I want to come back to this point from the minority report. These YEC actually have it quite backwards as the teaching of the scientific method is in and of itself a good critical thinking mechanism. No- they're not interested in critical thinking skills- they're only interested in undermining scientific education.

232 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:52:09pm

re: #216 Killgore Trout

Behead those who insult the Turtle Stack!

May I still insult the Post Turtle Stack?

233 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:52:10pm

Attn: GOP
Get rid of these creeps who want to follow Islam into the 11th century.
Thank you in advance for your cooperation,
Killgore

234 The Hoopster  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:52:12pm

re: #211 davinvalkri

I think that works better.

I think the math shows because of dark energy and the ever expanding speed of expansion..The big crunch is very unlikely...More like the lights go off from an ever expanding universe.

235 mich-again  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:53:51pm

re: #194 Ay, Caramba

Where did the stuff that "banged" really big come from? Was it always there? If it was a wave was it always there?

Maybe our galaxies are just molecules in a bigger universe.

236 davinvalkri  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:53:59pm

re: #224 Oh no...Sand People!

If E=MC^2

Then MC^2=E

So shouldn't we be able to convert mass to energy and vise versa?

Can we do it now?

Mass-to-energy is the easy one--unless I'm horrifically mistaken, it's the basis for any and every nuclear-type reaction (fission or fusion) in the universe. Energy to mass--not sure. Anyone else?

237 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:54:00pm

re: #231 Sharmuta

I want to come back to this point from the minority report. These YEC actually have it quite backwards as the teaching of the scientific method is in and of itself a good critical thinking mechanism. No- they're not interested in critical thinking skills- they're only interested in undermining scientific education.

No thinking allowed when the plate gets passed to you...just pony up the dough.
/

238 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:54:13pm

re: #224 Oh no...Sand People!

If E=MC^2

Then MC^2=E

So shouldn't we be able to convert mass to energy and vise versa?

Can we do it now?

Nuclear energy.

239 mich-again  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:55:19pm

re: #238 jcm

Nuclear energy.

So the used rods are heavier than the new ones?

240 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:55:23pm

re: #236 davinvalkri

Mass-to-energy is the easy one--unless I'm horrifically mistaken, it's the basis for any and every nuclear-type reaction (fission or fusion) in the universe. Energy to mass--not sure. Anyone else?

I'm just assuming that since they are 'equal'. Unless socialism has reached science law also. Some reactions are more equal than others.

241 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:55:41pm

re: #112 taxfreekiller

ya, but,

Can you tax electric waffles?

Yes, but I wouldn't eat one.

242 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:56:00pm

re: #236 davinvalkri
Conversion of Energy into Mass

Can we take electrical power out of the wires, use it to raise the kinetic energy of some particles to enormous values, smack the particles together and generate some extra mass? Yes! This is what a PARTICLE ACCELERATOR like TRIUMF24.12 does. Every such accelerator is a sort of "reactor in reverse,'' taking electrical power out of the grid and turning it into mass.

Such things happen naturally, too. Gamma rays of sufficient energy often convert into electron-positron pairs when they have a glancing collision with a heavy nucleus.

243 Ay, Caramba  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:56:26pm

I do think our living world did evolve from simpler organisms. However, i think most physicists have no clue as to what was there before the Big Bang. They just come up with new theories and calculations and particles. Hey, how about something more practical, like finding a cure for baldness.

244 avanti  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:56:47pm

re: #203 FurryOldGuyJeans

Time to do some studying into Quantum Mechanics for them answers.

I've read a few books on the subject, but it was once said that humans with a IQ difference of 30 points or so have trouble communicating idea's. Since the authors are probably in the 170 plus range, I just get a headache.:)
Try Steven Hawkings Brief History Of Time to see what I mean.

245 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:57:04pm

re: #226 Walter L. Newton

I've not heard that one. I can understand "forever something" easier than the concept of "forever nothing."

The best I could get from the paper was that all time and space is really artificial constructs added onto what is reality. Just as you could make a two dimensional representation of a 3 dimensional objects, our senses can only perceive a few dimensions (time, width, height, and breadth) of a much more varied dimensioned reality.

Ultimately the paper tried to make clear that we can not ever say what happened before the big bang because all of our measuring references didn't exist.

I am not doing justice to what I read, sorry. It was a lot clearer than I could ever make it myself. Too bad it was a thesis draft I read years ago and don't remember the person who wrote it or the title.

246 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:57:14pm

re: #218 avanti

That's the issue, I agree Just wondered why he got a ding for talking about their private belief and jumped in.

I dinged him down because I feel these people are dangerous. They are trying to undermine scientific education in this country- the effects of which could be devastating to human life, animal and plant life, our economy, our security...

Dangerous consequences is what the future holds in store if these people succeed.

247 Ojoe  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:57:22pm

It is a strange and weak faith that has to buttress itself with recent dinosaurs and instant butterflies.

Anyway, God is a fact in the here and now.

Good Night All.

248 davinvalkri  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:57:29pm

re: #239 mich-again

So the used rods are heavier than the new ones?

Fuel or damper? If it's fuel, the uranium, plutonium what have you will have reacted to form lighter elements, minus a neutron or two which continues the reaction, so they'll be a bit lighter (albeit radioactive). If it's a damper rod that absorbs said loose neutrons, they'll be a bit heavier when their job's done. Unless I'm wrong about how commercial nuclear reactors work.

249 The Hoopster  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:58:20pm

re: #238 jcm

Nuclear energy.

hey i was going for the home nuclear energy heating model.. The primaries are a bitch to find and you have to be sponge worthy to get a decent TLD that's reprogrammable..( a one shot piece of film does crap when you gotta heat the house all winter and still be able to have kids in the spring..ya know?)
LOL

250 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:58:21pm

re: #242 Killgore Trout

Conversion of Energy into Mass

So in theory, somewhere down the line as technology progresses we should be able to say, take some 'energy' and reorganize it into say for example... a spoon?

251 The Shadow Do  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:58:22pm

re: #220 albusteve

re: #207 Walter L. Newton

The selling of America. My grandfather worked for the times for over 30 years, he would puke if he read this.

the Japanese owned Pebble Beach for awhile back in the 80s...

And one even closer to you Walter. The Japanese owned Breckenridge Ski Resort too. I know, I still have the T-shirt: "Ski Blekenlidge"

252 Ojoe  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:58:28pm

re: #236 davinvalkri

Energy to mass--not sure. Anyone else?

Particle accelerators sometimes convert energy to mass.

253 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:58:32pm

re: #244 avanti

Brief History of Time is a very attainable book. I have no science education beyond high school and I understood it.

254 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:58:33pm

re: #247 Ojoe

It is a strange and weak faith that has to buttress itself with recent dinosaurs and instant butterflies.

Anyway, God is a fact in the here and now.

Good Night All.

Nite Ojoe!

255 Basho  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:58:53pm

re: #243 Ay, Caramba

I do think our living world did evolve from simpler organisms. However, i think most physicists have no clue as to what was there before the Big Bang. They just come up with new theories and calculations and particles. Hey, how about something more practical, like finding a cure for baldness.

It's impossible to know what there was before the big bang. The multiverse hypothesis says that new universes are born and die, but that's just speculation...

256 sattv4u2  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:59:00pm

re: #201 HoosierHoops

Who the heck is doing the play by play on your feed? I thhink it's Johnson..Like when Kode goes for a dunk he screams like his brain is going to blow up live..He gets so jacked up by the 4th quarter we take bets if somebody is going to call 9-11 for his heart attack. The guy goes upper freqs in the 4th quarter.. I love that dude...

play by play is Marv Albert ,,, Color is Doug Collins,, I'm not sure theres a 3rd

257 Ojoe  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:59:10pm

re: #254 CIA Reject

Good Night

258 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:59:22pm

re: #233 Killgore Trout

Attn: GOP
Get rid of these creeps who want to follow Islam into the 11th century.
Thank you in advance for your cooperation,
Killgore

Attn: Dems

Quit following the Islamics who want to drag civilization back to the 11th century just to prove you are tolerant of multi-cultural hog-wash.

259 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 7:59:42pm

re: #252 Ojoe

Particle accelerators sometimes convert energy to mass.

The new collider... live webcams

[Link: www.cyriak.co.uk...]

260 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:00:15pm

re: #205 Racer X

The universe is expanding. At some point it will stop expanding and begin to contract - and continue to contract until everything collapses inward into a big bang.

Repeat.

I thought that the "big crunch" was ruled out because there is not enough matter floating around to attract each other back to the "center".

But that doesn't give us an infinite horizon - entropy sucks. By definition, the universe just gets colder and colder and molecules vibrate more and more slowly. Ultimately you will just have faintly vibrating particles, each separated by vast regions of space.

Talk about an energy crisis.

261 MJ  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:00:15pm

re: #207 Walter L. Newton

The selling of America. My grandfather worked for the times for over 30 years, he would puke if he read this.

Actually, I don't really consider the NYT to be an American newspaper since it obviously doesn't see itself as an American newspaper. It's certainly has no allegiance to the national interests of this country. I'm just sorry that it received enough money to keep it out of bankruptcy for the time being.

262 Maui Girl  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:00:31pm

re: #230 karmic_inquisitor

It is a singularity. We can only speculate as to what came before it or where "it" (and now "we") sit.

Some movie I once saw had, as its end sequence, our universe contained in a marble that some creatures elsewhere were using in a game of marbles. that is as valid an assumption/ guess as any other because we can never know anything from before that point.

Which, BTW, allows for the existence of a creator.

The movie was Men in Black.

263 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:00:46pm

re: #258 FurryOldGuyJeans

Attn: Dems

Quit following the Islamics who want to drag civilization back to the 11th century just to prove you are tolerant of multi-cultural hog-wash.

Attn: Non-voters

Tough shit.

love, the Establishment

264 davinvalkri  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:00:46pm

re: #252 Ojoe

Particle accelerators sometimes convert energy to mass.

DOY! I just remembered my intro to special relativity class! When a photon strikes a small particle like an electron, the mass of the electron gets slightly larger thanks to the photon's energy! DOY DOY DOY!

265 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:00:53pm

re: #252 Ojoe

Particle accelerators sometimes convert energy to mass.

Never is total conversion, though, or even a few milligrams would make a nuke seem like a damp fire cracker.

266 mich-again  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:00:56pm

re: #244 avanti

I've read a few books on the subject, but it was once said that humans with a IQ difference of 30 points or so have trouble communicating idea's.

I say the exact opposite. When a person really understands what they are talking about, they can explain it to anyone.

267 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:00:58pm

re: #239 mich-again

So the used rods are heavier than the new ones?

In electrical generation U235 to PU94, mass is converted to energy (the equation are much more complex than that but that's the gist of it). In an H-bomb 20 lbs or so of PU and Tritium (3H) become a BIG bang.

268 esch  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:00:59pm

re: #243 Ay, Caramba
I give you...

ICX-TRX

269 Ay, Caramba  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:01:14pm

re: #262 Maui Girl

Son of the creator: The One

270 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:02:29pm

re: #266 mich-again

I say the exact opposite. When a person really understands what they are talking about, they can explain it to anyone.

EXACTLY! If you REALLY want to learn a subject- try to TEACH it!

271 Maximu§  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:02:31pm

re: #197 avanti

Be careful, Pete Seeger is coming up and he was a Commie before WW II. /s Great concert, even if you don't like the sponsor.

My wife's watching it, I went back to work as soon as Garth's act was over. Wish he would go back on tour again.

272 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:02:47pm

re: #250 Oh no...Sand People!

That's certainly possible and within the realm of science.
Try reading Physics of the Impossible. It a very well written and easily understood book.

273 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:03:16pm

The only thing I truly know, is that the more I know, the more I realize how much I don't.

274 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:03:38pm

re: #56 solomonpanting

'Cuz Noah's boat was freakin' awesome, dude. It totally road that gnarly wave like a pro.
/

275 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:04:04pm

re: #273 Oh no...Sand People!

The only thing I truly know, is that the more I know, the more I realize how much I don't.

You can get a reading list here that would make Burgess Meredith even sadder...

276 Macker  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:04:40pm

re: #258 FurryOldGuyJeans

Attn: Dems

Quit following the Islamics who want to drag civilization back to the 11th 7th century just to prove you are tolerant of multi-cultural hog-wash.

There, fixed that for ya!

277 swamprat  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:04:42pm

Devolution proved

timeshare salespeople-> telephone solicitors-> politicians -> democrats

missing links; pager salesmen, teletype con-artists

278 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:04:44pm

re: #244 avanti

I've read a few books on the subject, but it was once said that humans with a IQ difference of 30 points or so have trouble communicating idea's. Since the authors are probably in the 170 plus range, I just get a headache.:)
Try Steven Hawkings Brief History Of Time to see what I mean.

Quantum is spoken in the language of mathematics, and thorough understanding of classic physics is also required. Unless one can follow and understand differential equations, linear algebra and vector analysis you won't be conversant in the language of Quantum. English just doesn't cut it.

279 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:04:52pm

re: #267 jcm

In electrical generation U235 to PU94, mass is converted to energy (the equation are much more complex than that but that's the gist of it). In an H-bomb 20 lbs or so of PU and Tritium (3H) become a BIG bang.

Still is only a very small fraction undergoing any conversion. Fission sheds energy from splitting large atoms into smaller fragments while fusion sheds energy when lighter atoms combine into larger/heavier ones.

As spectacular as the amount of energy is that derives from either fission or fusion, the actual conversion is a very small percentage of the total mass.

280 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:04:59pm

re: #275 OldLineTexan

You can get a reading list here that would make Burgess Meredith even sadder...

not much beach pulp tho :(

281 The Hoopster  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:05:10pm

re: #256 sattv4u2

play by play is Marv Albert ,,, Color is Doug Collins,, I'm not sure theres a 3rd


You're right.. Marv always has that oh gawd there is a cheap hooker biting me on the back sound...JAMES TOUCHED THE BALL WHEN IT WENT OUT OF BOUNDS! They dump the Gatoraide bucket over him at half time just to keep him cooled off..I love the way his voice starts off normal then goes to screaming madman in 2 seconds...

282 MJ  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:05:34pm

AP: Arabs: Israel ammo in Gaza had depleted uranium

VIENNA, Austria – Arab nations accused Israel on Monday of blasting Gaza with ammunition containing depleted uranium and urged the International Atomic Energy Agency to investigate reports that traces of it had been found in victims of the shelling...
[Link: www.yahoo.com...]

No doubt AP will report next week that Jews poisoned the wells too while using the blood of little Arab boys to make their pita.

For antisemitic news, be sure to tune into the latest from the AP.

283 captwfcall  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:06:30pm

ran over a pesky velociraptor on the way home from work today. last week it was a darn T-Rex. where are all these dinosaurs coming from?!?!

284 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:06:42pm

re: #272 Killgore Trout

That's certainly possible and within the realm of science.
Try reading Physics of the Impossible. It a very well written and easily understood book.

Bookmarked. I'll have to see if I can find it here locally. I dig this stuff. I am a fan of the "I can's" versus all the "You cant's".

So I been following this old 'crackpot'. Anyone know of John Roy Robert Searle and his Searle Effect Generator?
*adjusts tinfoil hat*
/Don't mean to turn this into a "Coast to Coast AM" thread...

285 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:07:08pm

re: #229 Iron Fist

I don't disagree that pushing the GW agenda is going to hurt this country.

But the difference is there is not a single shred of scientific evidence to support the position of the YEC/IDers. Climate Change does happen- the debate centers on our role, and the scientific method will eventually bring some consensus.

286 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:07:09pm

re: #250 Oh no...Sand People!

So in theory, somewhere down the line as technology progresses we should be able to say, take some 'energy' and reorganize it into say for example... a spoon?

But... there is no spoon.

287 mich-again  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:07:16pm

Which came first. Velociraptors or Pete Seeger.

288 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:07:21pm

re: #282 MJ

AP: Arabs: Israel ammo in Gaza had depleted uranium

VIENNA, Austria – Arab nations accused Israel on Monday of blasting Gaza with ammunition containing depleted uranium and urged the International Atomic Energy Agency to investigate reports that traces of it had been found in victims of the shelling...
[Link: www.yahoo.com...]

No doubt AP will report next week that Jews poisoned the wells too while using the blood of little Arab boys to make their pita.

For antisemitic news, be sure to tune into the latest from the AP.

bullshit...depleted U is way to expensive to shoot somebody with...thta's what lead is for

289 avanti  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:07:23pm

re: #266 mich-again

I say the exact opposite. When a person really understands what they are talking about, they can explain it to anyone.

Maybe, but this is hard to follow for me, maybe because they don't fully understand it: (BTW, I don't get the 11 dimensions, if you can help )

Some physicists believe our universe was created by colliding with another, but Kaku says it also may have sprung from nothing: a completely empty eleven dimensional universe with no spin, no charge and no energy. This seemingly tranquil nothingness universe was actually unstable and some physicists believe that a fluctuation in the vacuum caused our universe to pinch off from its empty existence without time and space to a universe that was large enough to expand. Like a bubble in a bath, our universe had to grow instantaneously in order to survive and escape the collapsing fate of small bubbles.

This “quantum leap” involved four of the dimensions of the empty universe, which now frame the universe we live in. Expanding suddenly, this event sparked the Big Bang and caused the further expansion which created matter and continues to push the galaxies apart today. Meanwhile, the seven remaining dimensions shrunk to an almost inconceivable size, much smaller than an atom.

String theory is so far a purely mathematical journey back to these primordial moments, and some physicists are considering different explanations. The higher dimensions of our universe, if they exist, cannot be directly explored because today’s instruments are not powerful enough to measure their small size. But there are experiments—both Earth-bound and space-based—that may provide evidence to support string theory.

Next year, the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) will be turned on outside Geneva. Physicists hope that it will begin to create supersymmetric particles (a.k.a. “sparticles”) that Kaku says are a vibration of strings. If and when another new apparatus called the Laser Interferometer Space Antenna goes up into space, physicists will use its three laser-connected satellites to look for vibrations of space and time, known as gravitational waves, left over from the Big Bang. Kaku is confident these experiments and others will provide physical evidence for higher dimensions and string theory.

290 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:08:05pm

re: #284 Oh no...Sand People!

John Searl

291 Basho  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:08:14pm

re: #282 MJ

I don't get what the problem is? I looked up depleted in the dictionary and it still means "empty out" or "exhaust the abundance".

292 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:08:19pm

re: #135 swamprat

What about the abiotic origin of life? Is this not pretty speculative?
Are there more than one theories about this? (bsaic, not the petty bickering scientist are prone to engage in)

Anyone, please answer before the food fight breaks out.

Much of science is speculative (hence asking questions and positing hypotheses). The problem is, some people think that just because a question can't be answered (to their satisfaction), that is an automatic refutation of the hypothesis.

293 swamprat  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:08:20pm

ok physics fun

with free accordion solo

294 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:08:33pm

re: #287 mich-again

Which came first. Velociraptors or Pete Seeger.

good one

295 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:08:35pm

re: #275 OldLineTexan

You can get a reading list here that would make Burgess Meredith even sadder...

Ah, were you watching the Twilight Zone marathon that was on recently?

Being Myopic myself, I could never get what the problem was because I can see close up quite well. Must have been another type of focal irregularity.

296 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:09:11pm

re: #66 karmic_inquisitor

Here's one, the references are a little bit dated:

The ant work’s hard in the withering heat all summer long, building his House and laying up supplies for the winter. The grasshopper thinks he's a fool, and laughs and dances and plays the summer away.

Come winter, the shivering grasshopper calls a press conference and demands to know why the ant should be allowed to be warm and well fed while others less fortunate are cold and starving. CBS, NBC and ABC show up to provide pictures of the shivering grasshopper next to a video of the ant in his comfortable home with a table filled with food.

America is stunned by the sharp contrast. How can this be, that in a country of such wealth, this poor grasshopper is allowed to suffer so? Kermit the Frog appears on Oprah with the grasshopper and everybody cries when they sing, "It's Not Easy Being Green". Jesse Jackson stages a demonstration in front of the ant's house, where the news stations film the group singing, "We shall overcome".

Al Gore exclaims in an interview with Peter Jennings that the ant has gotten rich off the back of the grasshopper and calls for an immediate tax hike on the ant to make him pay his "fair share". Finally, the EEOC drafts the "Economic Equity and Anti-Grasshopper Act" retroactive to the beginning of the summer.

The ant is fined for failing to hire a proportionate number of green bugs and, having nothing left to pay his retroactive taxes, his home is confiscated by the government.

Hillary gets her old law firm to represent the grasshopper in a defamation suit against the ant, and the case is tried before a panel of federal judges that Bill appointed from a list of single-parent welfare recipients. The ant loses the case.

The story ends as we see the grasshopper finishing up the last bits of the ant's food while the government house he is in, which just happens to be the ant's old house, crumbles around him because he doesn't maintain it. The ant has disappeared in the snow. The grasshopper is found dead in a drug related incident and the house, now abandoned, is taken over by a gang of spiders who terrorize the once peaceful neighborhood.

297 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:09:13pm

re: #290 Walter L. Newton

I always throw the 'e' on their...bad habit. I am certainly intrigued by the old coot.

298 TheAntichrist  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:09:22pm

re: #7 MandyManners

They really and truly are determined to cripple this nation. Shame on them! If they wanna' live in a theocratic nation, might I suggest they move to Afghanistan or Iran?


It's funny that they never see all they have in common with those regimes where a holy book trumps all empirical evidence about just about anything.

299 swamprat  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:09:24pm

re: #283 captwfcall

ran over a pesky velociraptor on the way home from work today. last week it was a darn T-Rex. where are all these dinosaurs coming from?!?!

grateful dead concert

300 Ay, Caramba  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:09:27pm

Speaking of science, How big is Uranus.

301 davinvalkri  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:09:33pm

re: #293 swamprat

ok physics fun



with free accordion solo

They might be giants! Yay!

302 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:09:45pm

re: #297 Oh no...Sand People!

*PIMF: there

303 Basho  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:10:36pm

re: #288 albusteve

bullshit...depleted U is way to expensive to shoot somebody with...thta's what lead is for

Depleted U is just as toxic as lead anyway... still don't see the big deal.

304 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:10:37pm

re: #279 FurryOldGuyJeans

Still is only a very small fraction undergoing any conversion. Fission sheds energy from splitting large atoms into smaller fragments while fusion sheds energy when lighter atoms combine into larger/heavier ones.

As spectacular as the amount of energy is that derives from either fission or fusion, the actual conversion is a very small percentage of the total mass.

Efficiency is not good, correct.

305 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:11:40pm

re: #297 Oh no...Sand People!

I always throw the 'e' on their...bad habit. I am certainly intrigued by the old coot.

I don't know a thing about him. I just googled it and came up with the spelling difference. I got a wiki page open, I'll read soon. Probably another zero-cost energy nut.

306 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:12:06pm

re: #56 solomonpanting

Riddle me this:

If YEC believe humans and dinosaurs lived at the same time and

why would a cataclysmic event such as this not also have wiped out humans?

Obviously, because Noah and his family survived due to the ark.

Bigger question--why didn't Noah take at least some smaller, cuter dinos on board?

307 avanti  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:12:37pm

re: #278 jcm

Quantum is spoken in the language of mathematics, and thorough understanding of classic physics is also required. Unless one can follow and understand differential equations, linear algebra and vector analysis you won't be conversant in the language of Quantum. English just doesn't cut it.

Hardest 12 weeks of my life was math phase at the Navy's electronics technician B school. 8 hours a day of engineering math. Lots of math I'd never heard of, but it was amazing what you could do with it. It is its own language, and I was never fluent.

308 Dar ul Harb  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:12:54pm

re: #300 Ay, Caramba

No goatse links, please!

309 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:13:03pm

re: #303 Basho

Depleted U is just as toxic as lead anyway... still don't see the big deal.

DU is for armor piercing applications. The fact that it is depleted nuclear material is widely touted for propaganda purposes.

Anything that breathlessly cites the use of DU rounds is propaganda.

310 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:13:20pm

re: #302 Oh no...Sand People!

*PIMF: there

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

311 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:13:22pm

re: #149 Dar ul Harb

Now put that Ockham's razor away! You're gonna hurt somebody!

Sorry. It's safely back in the drawer.
/

312 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:13:41pm

re: #278 jcm

Unless one can follow and understand differential equations, linear algebra and vector analysis...

I know that a 5% tax cut for everyone is not a tax break for the rich.

313 swamprat  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:14:07pm

re: #306 SanFranciscoZionist

He did.

better than steak, it would seem!

314 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:14:16pm

re: #76 Jimmah

There's a major new BBC series on evolution coming soon, presented by David Attenborough. Don't know much more about it at the moment - I just saw a quick 'heads up' preview the other day on tv. Looking forward to it though.

Be sure to link to the video when you can, so I can bitch about not being able to access said video here in the states. :)

315 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:14:48pm

[weeping euphoric tears of joy]


I was in downtown DC earlier today, and... His Holy Motorcade drove right by me!

And I was instantly cured of my leprosy!

316 The Hoopster  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:15:25pm

re: #306 SanFranciscoZionist

Obviously, because Noah and his family survived due to the ark.

Bigger question--why didn't Noah take at least some smaller, cuter dinos on board?

Been up to me..The animals can build their own ark.. I'm taking extended family and lots of fishing poles...

317 mich-again  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:15:32pm

re: #289 avanti

I think whatever the answer is, it will be simple.

318 swamprat  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:15:33pm

re: #311 unakite


Right next to Schrodinger's cat.

319 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:15:35pm

re: #300 Ay, Caramba

Speaking of science, How big is Uranus.

You tell me. You can see it better than I can.

320 Killgore Trout  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:15:53pm

re: #289 avanti

Here's a very good and entertaining explanation of what's going on a CERN...
Brian Cox: An inside tour of the world's biggest supercollider

321 Bloodnok  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:15:54pm

re: #315 Occasional Reader

[weeping euphoric tears of joy]

I was in downtown DC earlier today, and... His Holy Motorcade drove right by me!

And I was instantly cured of my leprosy!

Spare a talent for an old ex-leper?

322 Syrah  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:15:56pm

Education is too important to leave to government.

323 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:16:00pm

re: #295 jcw46

Ah, were you watching the Twilight Zone marathon that was on recently?

Being Myopic myself, I could never get what the problem was because I can see close up quite well. Must have been another type of focal irregularity.

It's a little something the Sci-Fi Channel and I do once a year or so. ;)

324 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:16:07pm

These are my current time wasters that I like to follow up on at random.


re: #305 Walter L. Newton

I don't know a thing about him. I just googled it and came up with the spelling difference. I got a wiki page open, I'll read soon. Probably another zero-cost energy nut.

www.NanoSolar.com (Solar energy) Actual working product
www.SwallowCommand.com (This is Searl's site, magnetics)
www.Steorn.com (magnets) Batshizzle crazy
www.BlackLightPower.com (Water etc.) Hydrogen / Hydrino's

/adjusts tinfoil hat...

325 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:16:10pm

re: #310 Walter L. Newton

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Oh no...Sand People!

Ok, I read the short wiki article on him, and he sound like a nut case. The easy way to gauge this people is simple. If they really invented anything that revolutionary, someone would know it, market it, make a fortune off it etc.

326 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:16:21pm

re: #307 avanti

Hardest 12 weeks of my life was math phase at the Navy's electronics technician B school. 8 hours a day of engineering math. Lots of math I'd never heard of, but it was amazing what you could do with it. It is its own language, and I was never fluent.

I've taken the math, and quantum courses.
I still scratch my head.

327 Basho  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:17:00pm

re: #309 CIA Reject

DU is for armor piercing applications. The fact that it is depleted nuclear material is widely touted for propaganda purposes.

Anything that breathlessly cites the use of DU rounds is propaganda.

So even though the risky nuclear material is removed and all that left is a heavy substance it is still used for propaganda? And people buy this pseudoscientific BS because they're too lazy to take a chemistry course and find out the facts themselves? Sounds familiar actually...

328 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:17:07pm

re: #321 Bloodnok

Spare a talent for an old ex-leper?

Aw, hell, here... have a bailout! Is $3.7 billion enough?

329 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:17:14pm

re: #315 Occasional Reader

[weeping euphoric tears of joy]
I was in downtown DC earlier today, and... His Holy Motorcade drove right by me! And I was instantly cured of my leprosy!

Didn't do much for your sense of humor.
/:)

330 Hooray for Captain Spaulding  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:17:50pm

re: #210 Oh no...Sand People!

My opinion is that matter can not be created or destroyed. It, matter, element, etc. has always existed and the element is eternal...In my unscientific opinion.
It can be organized and reorganized, but not created.

Dear Sir.
This is not a matter of opinion.
Matter indeed can be created by the collision of n-dimensional membranes.

331 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:17:55pm

re: #306 SanFranciscoZionist

Obviously, because Noah and his family survived due to the ark.

Bigger question--why didn't Noah take at least some smaller, cuter dinos on board?

Those little batsards spit poison.

/don't you watch movies?
//

332 mich-again  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:18:03pm

The Earth is the densest planet. Saturn is the least dense planet; it would float on water.

333 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:18:04pm

re: #328 Occasional Reader

Aw, hell, here... have a bailout! Is $3.7 billion enough?

3.7 won't cover my bar bill. 5 billion or we strike.

334 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:18:33pm

re: #164 Dar ul Harb

Then they came for Einstein.

But Einstein escaped (or at least knew when it was about time to leave).

335 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:18:39pm

re: #101 FurryOldGuyJeans

Saving lives is just a thing of the moment while saving souls is for eternity. Or at least according to a couple of acquaintances who are true believers.

Old Yiddish proverb: "Why do you worry so much about your body, and my soul? Worry instead about my body, and your own soul."

336 Basho  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:18:58pm

re: #332 mich-again

The Earth is the densest planet. Saturn is the least dense planet; it would float on water.

Where would one get a tub big enough?

337 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:19:02pm

re: #330 Hooray for Captain Spaulding

Matter indeed can be created by the collision of n-dimensional membranes.

Which, in turn, can be prevented by applying Preparation N. A dab'll do ya.

338 solomonpanting  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:19:03pm

In his first private moments tomorrow after the coronation:

"What do we do now?"

339 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:19:15pm

re: #327 Basho

So even though the risky nuclear material is removed and all that left is a heavy substance it is still used for propaganda? And people buy this pseudoscientific BS because they're too lazy to take a chemistry course and find out the facts themselves? Sounds familiar actually...

Sad but true: Idiots are more susceptible to propaganda than non idiots.

Unfortunately idiots also out-number non idiots.

Witness the recent election...

340 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:19:30pm

re: #335 SanFranciscoZionist

Old Yiddish proverb: "Why do you worry so much about your body, and my soul? Worry instead about my body, and your own soul."

I love it.

341 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:19:33pm

re: #325 Walter L. Newton

Oh no...Sand People!

Ok, I read the short wiki article on him, and he sound like a nut case. The easy way to gauge this people is simple. If they really invented anything that revolutionary, someone would know it, market it, make a fortune off it etc.

He is manufacturing in Thailand... supposedly.

342 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:19:50pm

re: #333 experiencedtraveller

3.7 won't cover my bar bill. 5 billion or we strike.

A Leper Strike?

Bah, I'm not worried. A little pressure, and you'll throw in your hand.

343 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:20:28pm

re: #332 mich-again

The Earth is the densest planet. Saturn is the least dense planet; it would float on water.

if I were a planet I'd be Saturn...right?

344 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:20:43pm

re: #315 Occasional Reader

[weeping euphoric tears of joy]


I was in downtown DC earlier today, and... His Holy Motorcade drove right by me!

And I was instantly cured of my leprosy!

I'm cured of my athlete's foot just by responding to you!

345 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:20:59pm

re: #327 Basho

So even though the risky nuclear material is removed and all that left is a heavy substance it is still used for propaganda? And people buy this pseudoscientific BS because they're too lazy to take a chemistry course and find out the facts themselves? Sounds familiar actually...

The toxicity of DU is that's it's a heavy metal, it's toxic in it chemical properties like mercury, lead, etc... It's residual radioactivity is miniscule.

346 Bloodnok  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:21:06pm

re: #342 Occasional Reader

A Leper Strike?

Bah, I'm not worried. A little pressure, and you'll throw in your hand.

Tsk-tsk. Those are no-nose.

347 TheAntichrist  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:21:11pm

re: #114 FurryOldGuyJeans

The only thing this proves is that there is no gravity, the earth sucks. ;)

Actually, only Wisconsin sucks. However, Indiana blows. This is why Chicago is known as the Windy City.

Thank you, I'll be here all week. Uh, please put down the torches and pitchforks...

348 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:21:25pm

re: #344 MandyManners

I'm cured of my athlete's foot just by responding to you!

Wow! My HAM! It's cured..

/yuk, yuk.

349 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:21:29pm

re: #304 jcm

Efficiency is not good, correct.

For the amount of energy released nuclear power is actually one of the more efficient.

We should be arguing how many angels can inscribe CBBHO's inaugural address, stutters and all, onto a grain of rice. ;)

350 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:21:38pm

re: #345 jcm

The toxicity of DU is that's it's a heavy metal, it's toxic in it chemical properties like mercury, lead, etc... It's residual radioactivity is miniscule.

OK, now explain DailyKos.

/

351 The Hoopster  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:21:56pm

re: #330 Hooray for Captain Spaulding

Dear Sir.
This is not a matter of opinion.
Matter indeed can be created by the collision of n-dimensional membranes.

Amazing work being done with brane theory.. I still think work with String theory is fascinating science...

352 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:22:19pm

re: #339 CIA Reject

Sad but true: Idiots are more susceptible to propaganda than non idiots.

Unfortunately idiots also out-number non idiots.

Witness the recent election...

Book learning does not make one an anti-idiot, either.

353 Cato the Elder  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:22:35pm

Speaking of whackjobs, I found this over on the Ashton Kutcher "Presidential Pledge" site:

I pledge to stop water fluoridation - the unecessary [sic] and harmful addition of fluoride chemicals into water supplies.

Woohoo! "Precious bodily fluids"!

354 Basho  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:23:05pm

re: #345 jcm

The toxicity of DU is that's it's a heavy metal, it's toxic in it chemical properties like mercury, lead, etc... It's residual radioactivity is miniscule.

...
Are joo a Nazi Zionist?!?!

/

355 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:23:07pm

re: #345 jcm

The toxicity of DU is that's it's a heavy metal

Woo-hoo!

(doing Bill & Ted air-guitaring)

356 Red Sea Desjardini Tang  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:23:10pm

re: #224 Oh no...Sand People!

If E=MC^2

Then MC^2=E

So shouldn't we be able to convert mass to energy and vise versa?

Can we do it now?

Where's your sarc tag?

357 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:23:19pm

re: #347 TheAntichrist

Actually, only Wisconsin sucks. However, Indiana blows. This is why Chicago is known as the Windy City.

Thank you, I'll be here all week. Uh, please put down the torches and pitchforks...

I just started up a thriving rotten vegetable stand, you know. ;)

358 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:23:47pm

re: #352 FurryOldGuyJeans

Book learning does not make one an anti-idiot, either.

Some of the smartest people I ever met made a living driving garbage trucks. Some of the dumbest made a living as college professors...

359 Hooray for Captain Spaulding  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:24:04pm

re: #267 jcm

In electrical generation U235 to PU94, mass is converted to energy (the equation are much more complex than that but that's the gist of it). In an H-bomb 20 lbs or so of PU and Tritium (3H) become a BIG bang.

Actually, in an H bomb the hydrogen is in 2 forms: gaseous tritium in the primary (as a booster), and as part of the secondary (normally lithium deuteride)

360 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:24:13pm

re: #344 MandyManners

I'm cured of my athlete's foot just by responding to you!

No fungus shall be left unChanged.

361 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:24:26pm

re: #356 Naso Tang

Where's your sarc tag?

It...it just disappeared with a flash and a bang. Have you seen my eyebrows?

362 Hooray for Captain Spaulding  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:24:30pm

re: #337 Occasional Reader

Which, in turn, can be prevented by applying Preparation N. A dab'll do ya.


Now THAT made me spew!

363 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:24:38pm

re: #341 Oh no...Sand People!

He is manufacturing in Thailand... supposedly.
[Video]

It's a motor. Start it and then remove the power from it. Or let me see it putting out more energy than it's using. None of those videos even address those issues.

Like I said before, anyone coming up with a perpetual motion energy source would have the world knocking at his door, not some clandestine lab in Thailand.

364 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:25:02pm

re: #339 CIA Reject

idiots also out-number non idiots.

Ack! So true. Yet I must retain my faith in democracy.

365 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:25:14pm

re: #358 CIA Reject

Some of the smartest people I ever met made a living driving garbage trucks. Some of the dumbest made a living as college professors...

Then what the hell is my excuse? ;)

366 mich-again  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:25:34pm

re: #343 albusteve

if I were a planet I'd be Saturn...right?

Do you have a halo?

367 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:25:57pm

re: #364 experiencedtraveller

Ack! So true. Yet I must retain my faith in democracy.

Government by the stupidest voter.

368 avanti  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:26:10pm

re: #326 jcm

I've taken the math, and quantum courses.
I still scratch my head.

I still remember most of one of the test questions. It went something like a aircraft at 20,000 feet, fires a projectile vertically at 1100/fps, neglecting drag, what is the maximum height of the projectile, how long to get there, velocity when it passes 20,000 feet on the way down, at what time, velocity on impact, and time. (or something close) Just a plug and chug calculus deal, but a bitch on a slide rule.

369 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:26:54pm

This is an excellent program about the White House and the Bushes.

370 Basho  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:27:01pm

re: #364 experiencedtraveller

Ack! So true. Yet I must retain my faith in democracy.

This might help your faith out:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

371 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:27:03pm

re: #364 experiencedtraveller

Ack! So true. Yet I must retain my faith in democracy.

Churchill once said that the best argument against democracy as a form of government was a five minute conversation with the average voter.

He also said that democracy was the worst type of government, except for all the other types...

372 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:27:20pm

re: #366 mich-again

Do you have a halo?

not yet...maybe after tomarrow tho

373 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:27:38pm

re: #365 FurryOldGuyJeans

Then what the hell is my excuse? ;)

Maybe you have a secret life as a garbage truck driver? :-)

374 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:27:45pm

Hm.
Plague update.

Somebody has probably already posted this, but I'm just now seeing it:

Not Plague, but Leaked Bio or Chem Weapon, That Killed Algerian Al Qaeda?

375 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:27:49pm

re: #359 Hooray for Captain Spaulding

Actually, in an H bomb the hydrogen is in 2 forms: gaseous tritium in the primary (as a booster), and as part of the secondary (normally lithium deuteride)

Yeah, try to keep it simple. That and PU part is an atomic bomb used to trigger the H part.

376 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:28:25pm

re: #368 avanti

They must also be excluding the curvature of the earth since the "forward" velocity would change the height in relation to the curve.

377 Bloodnok  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:28:43pm

re: #369 MandyManners

This is an excellent program about the White House and the Bushes.

I'm more interested in the people that live there than the confounded shrubbery. /:)

378 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:28:55pm

re: #374 reine.de.tout

Hm.
Plague update.

Somebody has probably already posted this, but I'm just now seeing it:

Not Plague, but Leaked Bio or Chem Weapon, That Killed Algerian Al Qaeda?

Work accidents suck.

BWAHAHAHAHA!

379 Dasher  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:29:27pm

The science of pseudo science -- like global warming theory and predictions. Most of us just call it junk-science.

380 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:29:42pm

re: #374 reine.de.tout

Hm.
Plague update.

Somebody has probably already posted this, but I'm just now seeing it:

Not Plague, but Leaked Bio or Chem Weapon, That Killed Algerian Al Qaeda?

whatever happened to the mystery killer freighter the Somali pirates highjacked?...maybe some nefarious connection?

381 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:29:53pm

re: #373 CIA Reject

Maybe you have a secret life as a garbage truck driver? :-)

Or something that should be hauled away, AS garbage?

// channeling a TOS Klingon from "The Trouble with Tribbles"

382 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:30:09pm

re: #363 Walter L. Newton

It's a motor. Start it and then remove the power from it. Or let me see it putting out more energy than it's using. None of those videos even address those issues.

Like I said before, anyone coming up with a perpetual motion energy source would have the world knocking at his door, not some clandestine lab in Thailand.

(I can't believe I am actually typing in defense of the old dude) That is only the 'first' stage of the device. It has an outer magnetic ring that wraps around the magnetic rollers. Then more rollers and another ring. then more rollers and a final magnetic ring.

He has documentation that he showed the airforce his device back in the sixties and they stated that the "G's" it produced would kill a pilot and they weren't interested. Once functioning a latent function, according to Searl, is that it is an 'inverse' gravity vehicle.

/Thank you for listening. I am George Noory.

383 Basho  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:30:25pm

re: #370 Basho

A wonderful scientific argument in favor of democracy was inspired by none other than Darwin's half-cousin, Francis Galton.

384 Red Sea Desjardini Tang  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:30:40pm

re: #361 OldLineTexan

It...it just disappeared with a flash and a bang. Have you seen my eyebrows?

Not you too!

385 notutopia  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:30:40pm

Kudos!and my heartfelt Thanks to:
Steven Schafersman, Ph.D.
Professional Geoscientist and Former University Geology Professor
Member, Texas Earth and Space Science Standards Panel
President, Texas Citizens for Science

Dr. Schafersman has persevered and remained loyal to his anti-pseudoscience convictions and has been hard working on the ESS project since 2003. He has worked through issues of outright deception, manipulation, and the ignorance of the Young Earth Creationists for years to preserve the "scientific theory and methods" of Science in educational programs.

I humbly bow and applaud his steadfast resolve to uphold the purist aspect of scientific definitions, advocating critical thinking, and promoting only "tested" and reliable science methods to be used in our educational system and textbooks regarding scientific standards.

The very least WE can now do to support his efforts and protect our Sciences is to forward the form letter on to the Texas School Boards and Texas legislature.

I respect this man. He has managed to accomplish what few can do. To also be ethical, discrete and professional throughout this entire grueling panel process.
...From the very beginning to the end of the process, we all treated... (Tom and Roger, the creationist adversaries)... properly as valued members of the panel. In fact, I am sure the others didn't even realize that Tom and Roger were pseudoscientists until very late in the process. I knew this from the beginning but didn't say anything so as not to prejudice anyone's opinion of them. I wanted to see how things would work out, and I am happy to state that the process worked well (until the conclusion, unfortunately). Every sentence in the final ESS standards document was completely examined and fully vetted by every member of the workgroup many times.

Well done!

386 avanti  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:30:52pm

re: #376 FurryOldGuyJeans

They must also be excluding the curvature of the earth since the "forward" velocity would change the height in relation to the curve.

I'm sure, it was like 40 years ago, still have the slide rule though.:)

387 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:31:38pm

re: #176 karmic_inquisitor

FWIW, there is a Portuguese Physicist out there (forgot his name but will look it up) who has published a theory that the speed of light had changed in the early moments of the big bang, which means time ticked at a different pace.

But another thing to note on time is how gravity affects it. To the external observer, time slows as an object approaches the speed of light. Well if you consider a black hole for a moment, it is a place (by definition) where light itself is not fast enough to escape. The time implications are mind-bending - something falling into a black hole will take forever to get there. Russian Physicists call Black Holes "Frozen Stars" for this reason - they are theoretically "Frozen" as the hole itself is as much a time sink as a gravity sink.

Point being that time has a certain variability to it when around an ultra dense area, and the big bang was ultra ultra dense.

Ultra dense. Hmmm... I like that idea. Maybe it works both ways. Here's a(n?) hypothesis for discussion. Light can't escape from black holes because the gravitational force is too strong. Conversely, why can't basic scientific principles cross the event horizon into the heads of people like this?

388 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:31:48pm

re: #377 Bloodnok

I'm more interested in the people that live there than the confounded shrubbery. /:)

Old joke from 41 era.

You hear Millie (the dog) got banished from the Whit House?

It kept peeing on the Bushes chasing the Quayles.

389 mich-again  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:32:11pm

re: #372 albusteve

Total boycott of all TV media these last few days. Plan on more of the same for the next week at least. Unless there is some cell phone video of a melee in the porta potty line at the inauguration.

390 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:32:21pm

re: #374 reine.de.tout

Hm.
Plague update.

Somebody has probably already posted this, but I'm just now seeing it:

Not Plague, but Leaked Bio or Chem Weapon, That Killed Algerian Al Qaeda?

Sounds like we should help them sterilize the area. 50,000,000°C or so should do the trick.

391 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:32:23pm

re: #377 Bloodnok

I'm more interested in the people that live there than the confounded shrubbery. /:)

The earlier show about Air Force One is playing again.

392 freetoken  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:32:37pm

re: #386 avanti

Hey... I learned using a sliderule... I wonder if I still have it somewhere.

It would be interesting to see how many people can still use one of those things.

393 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:33:03pm

re: #382 Oh no...Sand People!

(I can't believe I am actually typing in defense of the old dude) That is only the 'first' stage of the device. It has an outer magnetic ring that wraps around the magnetic rollers. Then more rollers and another ring. then more rollers and a final magnetic ring.

He has documentation that he showed the airforce his device back in the sixties and they stated that the "G's" it produced would kill a pilot and they weren't interested. Once functioning a latent function, according to Searl, is that it is an 'inverse' gravity vehicle.

/Thank you for listening. I am George Noory.

Fine. Then tell him to place the machine on a tarmack, surround by press and people (keep David Copperfiled away) and float the mother fucker. End of story.

I'm not dumping that in your direction, I'm being rhetorical.

394 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:33:17pm

re: #392 freetoken

Hey... I learned using a sliderule... I wonder if I still have it somewhere.

It would be interesting to see how many people can still use one of those things.

My abacus just broke...
/*rimshot*

395 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:33:47pm

re: #394 Oh no...Sand People!

My abacus just broke...
/*rimshot*

You can borrow mine.

396 freetoken  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:34:42pm

re: #394 Oh no...Sand People!

hey.. in Japan I've met old shopkeepers who still use those things!

397 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:34:43pm

re: #393 Walter L. Newton

Fine. Then tell him to place the machine on a tarmack, surround by press and people (keep David Copperfiled away) and float the mother fucker. End of story.

I'm not dumping that in your direction, I'm being rhetorical.

BWAAHAAHAA!

(I really don't know why I waste the time with this type of shtuff.)

398 Bloodnok  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:34:52pm

re: #388 jcm

Old joke from 41 era.

You hear Millie (the dog) got banished from the Whit House?

It kept peeing on the Bushes chasing the Quayles.

No upding, but here's a point of light you can have.

399 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:35:24pm

re: #396 freetoken

hey.. in Japan I've met old shopkeepers who still use those things!

Dude.

400 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:35:43pm

Or you can use my quipu.

401 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:36:02pm

Last year, in the first history class I taught at a charter high school (I have since left), I started us off with the Scientific Revolution. I was happily babbling about Galileo, when I realized that about a quarter to a third of my class had identified me as the enemy, since I was talking about science. Actually, since I had said the word 'science'.

Questions posed included: "Why do you believe in science and not God?" "Why are you trying to get us to not believe in God?" and "How are you going to feel when you go to hell for not believing in God?"

It was scary. They had identified me as an enemy of religion because I told them about the development of astronomy.

402 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:36:07pm

re: #374 reine.de.tout

Hm.
Plague update.

Somebody has probably already posted this, but I'm just now seeing it:

Not Plague, but Leaked Bio or Chem Weapon, That Killed Algerian Al Qaeda?

We got lucky, this time. But next time our enemies may not be so stupid. Luck may be all we can hope for, with BHO's promised (foolish) shift away from active defense.

403 Bloodnok  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:36:27pm

re: #391 MandyManners

The earlier show about Air Force One is playing again.

I hope it doesn't end up smelling as bad as BHO's campaign plane.

404 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:36:30pm

Hey y'all - well freezing rain just started and they're still predicting 6" of snow tomorrow - and Duke Energey "reminded people" that when power lines get frozen there are sometimes "service interruptions" so I figured I'd hop on here since I probably won't be able to get on LGF (or turn on heat, stove, microwave or *gasp* coffee pot) tomorrow!
How is everyone tonight?

405 x-wing  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:37:07pm

re: #398 Bloodnok

No upding, but here's a point of light you can have.

Wow, you throw those around like you have a thousand of them..or something ;>}

406 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:37:12pm

re: #400 OldLineTexan

Or you can use my quipu.

I once did some peripheral work involving a Peruvian data processing company who had dubbed themselves Quipudata. I thought it was a pretty clever name.

407 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:37:34pm

re: #389 mich-again

I'm totally disinterested...but the Battle of the PortaJohns would definately change my mind...one can hope eh?

408 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:37:47pm

re: #403 Bloodnok

I hope it doesn't end up smelling as bad as BHO's campaign plane.

The Air Force staff will not let that happen.

409 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:37:48pm

re: #406 Occasional Reader

I once did some peripheral work involving a Peruvian data processing company who had dubbed themselves Quipudata. I thought it was a pretty clever name.

That's pretty good!

410 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:37:52pm

re: #204 Basho

African safari guides refuse to drive in aardvark territory! It is because they are the most feared animal of the land!

(Actually, the holes they dig cause their trucks to get stuck)

OK, so... possums roll over and play dead, and aardvarks dig big holes. Woe be unto the opposum.

411 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:37:52pm

re: #401 SanFranciscoZionist

Wow! I'm really sorry to hear that.

412 Bloodnok  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:38:19pm

re: #405 x-wing

Wow, you throw those around like you have a thousand of them..or something ;>}

Stay the course.

413 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:38:22pm

re: #406 Occasional Reader

I once did some peripheral work involving a Peruvian data processing company who had dubbed themselves Quipudata. I thought it was a pretty clever name.

Their programs kept crashing...their code was in knots...

/*rimshot*

414 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:38:33pm

re: #397 Oh no...Sand People!

BWAAHAAHAA!

(I really don't know why I waste the time with this type of shtuff.)

Well, I don't know how old you are, but I would answer because "it's fun." When I was in my 20's and 30's, I had a library of over 1000 books on pseudo-science topics. In the 70's, I even had a once a month 5 hour radio (ala Coast to Coast) in Dallas.

It's all interesting, but after a while you develop better critical thinking skills and you start getting better at questioning these things.

So, now in my middle 50's, it take a whole lot more than a bunch of electromagnets and wires to fool me.

415 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:38:58pm
416 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:39:13pm

re: #405 x-wing

Wow, you throw those around like you have a thousand of them..or something ;>}

Wait a minute... I thought it was "A Thousand Pints of Lite®"? No wonder I spent the late 80s mildly drunk and constantly peeing.

417 Shug  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:39:16pm

re: #401 SanFranciscoZionist

Last year, in the first history class I taught at a charter high school (I have since left), I started us off with the Scientific Revolution. I was happily babbling about Galileo, when I realized that about a quarter to a third of my class had identified me as the enemy, since I was talking about science. Actually, since I had said the word 'science'.

Questions posed included: "Why do you believe in science and not God?" "Why are you trying to get us to not believe in God?" and "How are you going to feel when you go to hell for not believing in God?"

It was scary. They had identified me as an enemy of religion because I told them about the development of astronomy.


That's a frightening as anything I'v read here

418 freetoken  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:39:39pm

Well, it looks like we are fresh out of creationist activists here at LGF... there are none popping up anyway.

We could change topics... my state (California) is so far into debt, and going deeper everyday, that concerns over science curricula are way down on the list of concerns here.

Good news: At least I don't have to worry about getting an IOU from the state (as I owe taxes and did not overpay.)

Bad news: I owe.

419 mich-again  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:40:01pm

re: #404 realwest

How is everyone tonight?

Well we still have power, which is nice. But its so cold there are birds froze in midair!

420 Long Nics are Looonnng  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:40:03pm

Thought about going to bed...but want to enjoy every minute of this day.

421 Syrah  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:40:03pm

re: #402 Dark_Falcon

We got lucky, this time. But next time our enemies may not be so stupid. Luck may be all we can hope for, with BHO's promised (foolish) shift away from active defense.

It won't take them too long to figure out that you don't open the vile to see what is in it.

422 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:40:07pm

re: #403 Bloodnok

I hope it doesn't end up smelling as bad as BHO's campaign plane.

Was there a story about his plane smelling bad?

423 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:40:21pm

And it IS supposed to snow at the Inaugural tomorrow with high temps around 30 degrees!

424 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:41:02pm

re: #415 Iron Fist

I think you want anthropogenic, not anthropomorphic.

Unless we're talking ManBearPig.

/

425 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:41:25pm

re: #401 SanFranciscoZionist

Last year, in the first history class I taught at a charter high school (I have since left), I started us off with the Scientific Revolution. I was happily babbling about Galileo, when I realized that about a quarter to a third of my class had identified me as the enemy, since I was talking about science. Actually, since I had said the word 'science'.

Questions posed included: "Why do you believe in science and not God?" "Why are you trying to get us to not believe in God?" and "How are you going to feel when you go to hell for not believing in God?"

It was scary. They had identified me as an enemy of religion because I told them about the development of astronomy.

I would have been tempted to ask them if they had been born in a hospital equipped with the things that science had developed.

426 Bloodnok  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:41:28pm

re: #416 Occasional Reader

Wait a minute... I thought it was "A Thousand Pints of Lite®"? No wonder I spent the late 80s mildly drunk and constantly peeing.

Just like Ed McMahon.

427 Long Nics are Looonnng  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:41:28pm

re: #418 freetoken

They will not wait for your money though.

428 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:41:36pm

re: #414 Walter L. Newton

Well, I don't know how old you are, but I would answer because "it's fun." When I was in my 20's and 30's, I had a library of over 1000 books on pseudo-science topics. In the 70's, I even had a once a month 5 hour radio (ala Coast to Coast) in Dallas.

It's all interesting, but after a while you develop better critical thinking skills and you start getting better at questioning these things.

So, now in my middle 50's, it take a whole lot more than a bunch of electromagnets and wires to fool me.

Ripe ol age of 30. Working through 'The Strike' / 'Atlas Shrugged'. Then I am going to start wading into more 'real' science topics as opposed to 'Batshite crazy' pseudo-science topics.

429 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:41:49pm

re: #401 SanFranciscoZionist

and "How are you going to feel when you go to hell for not believing in God?"

I hope you had an appropriately wiseass response ready.

430 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:41:56pm

re: #420 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thought about going to bed...but want to enjoy every minute of this day.

History Channel!

431 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:42:14pm

re: #419 mich-again
Quick, grab the shotgun - birds in flight are hard for me to hit, but hell, if thery're frozen in mid-air...
I haven't had truly fresh duck in I don't know how long!

432 Bloodnok  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:42:43pm

re: #422 Occasional Reader

Was there a story about his plane smelling bad?



Via HotAir

433 Long Nics are Looonnng  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:42:44pm

re: #430 MandyManners

History Channel!

LGF...that's all I need...

and this chair.

434 freetoken  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:43:07pm

re: #427 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

They will not wait for your money though.

Well, they will wait until April 15... after that, you're right, the State will swoop down on me like vulture that hasn't eaten in 6 months.

435 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:43:07pm

The One's service commercial is on...AGAIN.

How can I volunteer for the moon?

436 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:43:26pm

re: #430 MandyManners
Hey Mandy - didja see George and Laura Bush giving that 1+1/2 hour show on the White House?!
I think it was filmed in 2006.

437 Bloodnok  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:43:50pm

re: #433 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

LGF...that's all I need...

and this chair.


I'll upding you for the Steve Martin reference because you can't do it yourself.

438 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:43:56pm

re: #434 freetoken

Well, they will wait until April 15... after that, you're right, the State will swoop down on me like vulture that hasn't eaten in 6 months.

Unless you are an Obama cabinet appointee...in which case, taxes and the payment thereof are negotiable.

439 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:44:09pm

re: #434 freetoken

Well, they will wait until April 15... after that, you're right, the State will swoop down on me like vulture that hasn't eaten in 6 months.

just wait til they cut the services that your taxes pay for...

440 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:45:25pm

re: #401 SanFranciscoZionist So what DID you say to them as opposed to the answers others have proposed, given enough time to think about it, I mean?

441 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:45:32pm

re: #433 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

LGF...that's all I need... and this chair.

Brush your teeth and go to bed.
/

442 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:45:34pm

re: #432 Bloodnok


Via HotAir

Hm. I know someone who would know. I'll ask.

443 Long Nics are Looonnng  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:45:35pm

re: #435 OldLineTexan

The One's service commercial is on...AGAIN.

How can I volunteer for the moon?

I haven't seen it. What is it? Seriously. Peace Corp?

444 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:45:43pm

re: #402 Dark_Falcon

We got lucky, this time. But next time our enemies may not be so stupid. Luck may be all we can hope for, with BHO's promised (foolish) shift away from active defense.

Yep, I was thinking along the same lines.

445 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:46:09pm

re: #370 Basho

This might help your faith out:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Nice link. Thanks. It says: the members of the crowd were too conscious of the opinions of others and began to emulate each other and conform rather than think differently.

Management Theory is a very interesting subject that I have never had the time to really explore. I was impressed with the Stranded on the Moon simulation and other such examples such as Theory X and Theory Y.

At heart, we know that group decision making is inherently superior to individual decision making (Hugo/Lil Kim/Bashar...I'm looking at you). Yet how to construct the proper decision making authority is the true demand.

I must stick with one citizen one vote.

446 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:46:15pm
447 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:46:40pm

re: #418 freetoken
Heh. Try giving the State an IOU!

448 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:47:25pm

re: #443 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I haven't seen it. What is it? Seriously. Peace Corp?

No, some other organization.

Whaddaya know, I found one of the ads.

449 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:47:31pm

re: #433 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

LGF...that's all I need...

and this chair.

Before you leave, would you pick out a Thermos for me?

450 mich-again  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:47:34pm

re: #431 realwest

My 14 yo son and I saw a bald eagle sitting in a tree this afternoon a couple miles from the house. Very cool. I slowed down so we could get a good look. Never seen one that close to here before.

Can not picture how a cardinal could chase him away.

451 notutopia  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:48:07pm

re: #404 realwest

Hey y'all - well freezing rain just started and they're still predicting 6" of snow tomorrow - and Duke Energey "reminded people" that when power lines get frozen there are sometimes "service interruptions" so I figured I'd hop on here since I probably won't be able to get on LGF (or turn on heat, stove, microwave or *gasp* coffee pot) tomorrow!
How is everyone tonight?

Hey Realwest! Our hugh pond froze over, the non-freeze pasture crank faucets on the outdoor water line faucets have frozen, and I had to cut ice out of the pool to heat over a L/P burner to provide fresh drinking water to our poultry and cattle yesterday. I spent the day today prepping all the animal stables with rafter overhang heaters and putting down extra hay bedding. I just made a huge thermos of coffee for preps for the coming ice storm. Three years ago, we were without power for 10 days d/t the ice taking down power lines and we're one of the last on the service lines for repairs. Lesson learned. Since then, I installed a diesel generator. I have a feeling we'll be supplying the neighbors with tractor driveway scraping/plowing and hot coffee if we get hit hard again tomorrow.

452 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:48:11pm

re: #446 Iron Fist

You are, of course, correct. But Al Gore is real. I've met him.

:-)

I met Ed McMahan...but I didnt want to brag about it :)

453 HelloDare  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:48:40pm

re: #401 SanFranciscoZionist

That's a depressing story. Reminds me of this from Ben Stein.

Stein: When we just saw that man, I think it was Mr. Myers [i.e. biologist P.Z. Myers], talking about how great scientists were, I was thinking to myself the last time any of my relatives saw scientists telling them what to do they were telling them to go to the showers to get gassed … that was horrifying beyond words, and that’s where science — in my opinion, this is just an opinion — that’s where science leads you.

Crouch: That’s right.

454 freetoken  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:48:55pm

re: #439 albusteve

just wait til they cut the services that your taxes pay for...

Happening as we speak... California is not the only state in trouble (most are), but the deficit is by far the largest. Something like 45 billion dollar shortfall over the next year, with the bank almost dry now (they really need the tax returns to come in early this year.)

Many local budgets around here are well pressed. I've seen few squad cars patrolling out and about, and I know down in San Diego that the issue probably will only be resolved by serious tax increase (and that may be court ordered if the fools drag it out long enough.)

I'm waiting for the State to cut some service, then have a judge overturn it (because a law - federal or state) requires that service. I'm more concerned with a court finally getting control of this, and taking it away from our (usually hapless) legislature and governor.

455 Long Nics are Looonnng  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:49:00pm

re: #441 Walter L. Newton

Brush your teeth and go to bed.
/

12 minutes. Every minute of this day. The last day. The day that I have been dreading has become one to hold onto.

"Rage! Rage! Against the dying of the light."

or...

"I'm melting...melting; oh, what a world, what a world!"

456 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:49:22pm

re: #436 realwest

Hey Mandy - didja see George and Laura Bush giving that 1+1/2 hour show on the White House?!
I think it was filmed in 2006.

The dates I saw on calendars and in reference indicate it was filmed in September 2008.

457 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:49:39pm

re: #170 albusteve

I dig. As far as social conservatism is concerned, I define it (again, my definition) as staying out of citizens private lives, personal decisions, and bedrooms, where such activities are kept among consenting adults and do not infringe on the individual liberties of others.

If the GOP would go back to that plank of the platform, they would get a whole lot more out of me than the occasional vote.

458 HelloDare  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:49:57pm

re: #453 HelloDare

I left out the best/worse part:

Stein: …Love of God and compassion and empathy leads you to a very glorious place, and science leads you to killing people.

Crouch: Good word, good word.

459 Long Nics are Looonnng  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:49:59pm

re: #449 Occasional Reader

Before you leave, would you pick out a Thermos for me?

A rectal thermometer too!

460 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:50:12pm

re: #450 mich-again
Ummm - why do you think a Cardinal could chase away a Bald Eagle - or is that a vague reference to the football game this weekend?!

461 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:50:26pm

re: #454 freetoken

Happening as we speak... California is not the only state in trouble (most are), but the deficit is by far the largest. Something like 45 billion dollar shortfall over the next year, with the bank almost dry now (they really need the tax returns to come in early this year.)

Many local budgets around here are well pressed. I've seen few squad cars patrolling out and about, and I know down in San Diego that the issue probably will only be resolved by serious tax increase (and that may be court ordered if the fools drag it out long enough.)

I'm waiting for the State to cut some service, then have a judge overturn it (because a law - federal or state) requires that service. I'm more concerned with a court finally getting control of this, and taking it away from our (usually hapless) legislature and governor.

read George Wills column last week about CA and the courts...you guys are fucked

462 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:50:47pm

re: #450 mich-again

My 14 yo son and I saw a bald eagle sitting in a tree this afternoon a couple miles from the house. Very cool. I slowed down so we could get a good look. Never seen one that close to here before.

Can not picture how a cardinal could chase him away.


The smaller birds are quicker and harder to catch for the slower more cumbersome eagle. The way raptors nail other birds is by surprise and preferably while they're on the ground. In a dogfight they lose to the smaller bird.

463 Long Nics are Looonnng  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:51:14pm

re: #460 realwest

What was vague about that?

464 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:51:29pm

re: #415 Iron Fist

One group is lying about their agenda and has no data to support their "theory".

The other group is quite open about their agenda and the data is debatable.

I believe in the end that science will win as far as both are concerned, but you have a point about scientists not looking for AGW data in the future. If the scientific method isn't properly taught- why would they? I think the solution is to keep our science education strong.

465 mich-again  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:51:32pm

re: #460 realwest

or is that a vague reference to the football game this weekend?!

Not so vague actually. You got it.

We were hoping for an all bird Super Bowl which has never happened. Dangit Baltimore!

466 Shug  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:51:54pm

The MFM gets in one more dig on Cheney

Cheney pulls back muscle, in wheelchair for inauguration

The article discusses his current back injury, then gives a ( needless ) summary of his previous ( unrelated ) health problems then they stick in this

After the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States, Cheney became one of the administration insiders leading the charge for the US-led war in Iraq, and was an advocate for some of Bush's most controversial policies including the use of "waterboarding," or simulated drowning, to extract information from terror suspects.

Human rights groups, and the man nominated to be the next attorney general, say waterboarding is torture


Is that really necessary in article about a back injury?

467 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:52:12pm

re: #451 notutopia
Ah well, see I think our landlord would frown on our hooking up a diesel generator - just saying.
But I bet you're really popular with your neighbors!

468 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:52:24pm

re: #415 Iron Fist

Leaving aside other stuff from your post for the moment, there's this;

I don't think that they have one entire skeleton from any one pre-human species.

Um, no. Completely off. To take your Neanderthal example, for instance; complete burial sites have been found.

469 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:52:32pm

re: #462 jcw46

The smaller birds are quicker and harder to catch for the slower more cumbersome eagle. The way raptors nail other birds is by surprise and preferably while they're on the ground. In a dogfight they lose to the smaller bird.

I think mich-again was making a sly comment on the up coming super bowl.

470 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:52:33pm

re: #225 experiencedtraveller

Frankly I don't know what aardvarks do either. But please keep me informed about any further research on the subect. ;)

See #204. Apparently, they dig big hole and piss people off (but only if your driving in Africa).

471 Long Nics are Looonnng  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:53:23pm

re: #466 Shug

Is that really necessary in article about a back injury?


Why yes. Yes it is.

472 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:53:25pm
473 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:53:44pm

re: #457 Slumbering Behemoth

I dig. As far as social conservatism is concerned, I define it (again, my definition) as staying out of citizens private lives, personal decisions, and bedrooms, where such activities are kept among consenting adults and do not infringe on the individual liberties of others.

If the GOP would go back to that plank of the platform, they would get a whole lot more out of me than the occasional vote.

I was so disgusted when McCain ran back to DC for that first bailout shit that it broke the chain...I did not vote for the first time ever...really bummed me out at first but I live in NM so that softened the blow...the GoP depresses me

474 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:53:45pm
475 Bloodnok  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:54:18pm

re: #472 Iron Fist

I met Gore when he was a Senator. The pre-rabid moonbat phase of his development. He seemed OK, if not particularly bright. Proximaty to the Clintons did not improve him. Not one least little bit.

Nor did proximity to the buffet table.

476 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:54:26pm

"I would have been tempted to ask them if they had been born in a hospital equipped with the things that science had developed."

Sorry, I cannot quote for some reason. Computer being weird.

I tried, I really did. Talked about everything from the electric light in the room to baby vaccines. No go. Many of these were kids from the serious ghetto, and terrifyingly badly educated, others were just terrifyingly badly educated. Someone had gotten to them long before me and said that 'science' was a hoax put out by people who didn't believe in God and said that men were descended from monkeys.

They were also troofers, and believed in every conspiracy theory that came down the pike--and thought I was clueless and naive for not, say, believing that the CIA killed Princess Di without further evidence than "I saw it on YouTube".

Did I mention that the school was run by moonbats? Mean moonbats? Did I mention that I'm out of there?

477 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:55:03pm

re: #456 MandyManners
Huh. The little box with get with TimeWarner's guide, said it had been made in 2006! Well whatever, didja see it?
Laura Bush is maybe the classiest First Lady I've ever seen (only on TV, of course) and George seemed really relaxed! Fascinating history though.

478 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:55:04pm

re: #448 OldLineTexan

No, some other organization.

Whaddaya know, I found one of the ads.

The One says:

"You may ask yourself: 'Where's my moon, my levee, my dream?' Obama continues. "Well, it's here, with you. Step forward. Help renew America at USAService.org."

WAB says:

"Whatever service activity you organize or take part in -- cleaning up a park, giving blood, volunteering at a homeless shelter, or mentoring an at-risk youth -- you can help start this important journey. But this is about more than just a single day of service, it's the beginning of ongoing commitment to your community."

Seems to me the "renewal" of America would be best served by not taxing of businesses and people to death.

And as for Michelle's comments, I thought that people who went to work every day, producing goods or providing services, were indeed showing an "ongoing commitment" to their communities and, well, to the country as a whole.

479 Long Nics are Looonnng  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:55:17pm

re: #473 albusteve

If we had lost by one, I'd be pissed at you. But since we lost by, oh 5million I guess I can let it go.

480 Racer X  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:55:18pm

I was fishing in the eastern Sierras with a buddy and we saw 2 eagles in a tree on the edge of the lake, mother and a young one. We had plenty of fish so we tossed a trout about 30 feet from our boat and slowly drifted away from it. The little fella quickly got a bead on the trout and flew down out of the tree to grab it, about 50ft from us. Coolest thing ever.

481 Haverwilde  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:55:24pm

re: #415 Iron Fist

I'm not arguing that young earth creationists have any science on their side, but neither do the anthroprogenic global warmists.

I see a problem here. We pretty well know the GW/Clmate Change folks who yell 'the sky is falling' or 'The seas are rising' or some other nonsense are just full of Gore scat.
But to deny that there is any effect to our production of CO2 is also wrong. Okay, it may only account for a fraction of a degree, and is well within the average annual variation in temperature. But it has some effects such increased ocean acidity etc.

482 ggt  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:55:33pm

Hello Night Lizards! Ramos and Compean are free, free, free at last!

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

483 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:56:34pm

re: #243 Ay, Caramba

I do think our living world did evolve from simpler organisms. However, i think most physicists have no clue as to what was there before the Big Bang. They just come up with new theories and calculations and particles. Hey, how about something more practical, like finding a cure for baldness.

Male particle baldness.

484 Long Nics are Looonnng  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:57:10pm

re: #482 ggt

Hello Night Lizards! Ramos and Compean are free, free, free at last!

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

Hey, just waiting on the end of the last day of the rest of our lives.

485 Pietr  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:57:18pm

re: #467 realwest

Ah well, see I think our landlord would frown on our hooking up a diesel generator - just saying.
But I bet you're really popular with your neighbors!

Evening, RW-tried to email you-and ran into the usual roadblock. My name is blue-and I check my spam folder. Use a good title, maybe 1 Re absent friends...Cheers.

486 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:57:21pm

re: #476 SanFranciscoZionist

"I would have been tempted to ask them if they had been born in a hospital equipped with the things that science had developed."

Sorry, I cannot quote for some reason. Computer being weird.

I tried, I really did. Talked about everything from the electric light in the room to baby vaccines. No go. Many of these were kids from the serious ghetto, and terrifyingly badly educated, others were just terrifyingly badly educated. Someone had gotten to them long before me and said that 'science' was a hoax put out by people who didn't believe in God and said that men were descended from monkeys.

They were also troofers, and believed in every conspiracy theory that came down the pike--and thought I was clueless and naive for not, say, believing that the CIA killed Princess Di without further evidence than "I saw it on YouTube".

Did I mention that the school was run by moonbats? Mean moonbats? Did I mention that I'm out of there?

I bet their parents voted for CBBHO or Ron Paul.

487 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:57:25pm

Later all.

Take luck.

488 Wishing  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:57:31pm

re: #478 reine.de.tout

Seems to me the "renewal" of America would be best served by not taxing of businesses and people to death.

And as for Michelle's comments, I thought that people who went to work every day, producing goods or providing services, were indeed showing an "ongoing commitment" to their communities and, well, to the country as a whole.

I don't think *giving* to her community, or anyone else for that matter, has ever been a focus in this woman's life. She may want YOU to give, but I doubt that she will be darkening the door of a soup kitchen again, unless it is for a photo op. (God forgive me for my mean thoughts)

489 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:57:38pm

re: #455 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

12 minutes. Every minute of this day. The last day. The day that I have been dreading has become one to hold onto.

"Rage! Rage! Against the dying of the light."

or...

"I'm melting...melting; oh, what a world, what a world!"

I'm following a third way: immersing myself in science fiction and my way to avoid news programs that are wall-to-wall Obama love-ins. With my work's CNN feed, tomorrow will be very bad. If any of you read about someone in Cook County who had to be subdued after Obama's speech drove him crazy, it was probably me. In reality, I'll probably get through it but I won't have a good day. The pain Obama causes me is intense.

490 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:57:53pm

re: #478 reine.de.tout

Seems to me the "renewal" of America would be best served by not taxing of businesses and people to death.

And as for Michelle's comments, I thought that people who went to work every day, producing goods or providing services, were indeed showing an "ongoing commitment" to their communities and, well, to the country as a whole.

I'm just totally confused as to how Obama expects much interest in "community service" when most of the people he appeals to seem to think they are entitled to government handouts.

It's not going to work both ways.

491 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:58:23pm

re: #466 Shug Hey Shug! No it isn't EXCEPT for the MFM - they have to stick it to Cheney and Bush every chance they get.

492 notutopia  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:58:25pm

re: #474 taxfreekiller

tfk and Mrs. tfk,
Hugs and many thanks for all the work you did and urged others to do on the commuting of prison in the case of Ramos and Compean. Their wives and children thank you too!
(tfk)

493 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:58:27pm

re: #469 Walter L. Newton

I think mich-again was making a sly comment on the up coming super bowl.

I suspected so also but I've always been fascinated about the sheer nerve the little birds have when they dive bomb crows or hawks (birds 4-6 times their size) when their nests are threatened. (I've seen that a lot driving on back roads in the countryside in a number of states from the midwest to the east coast).

494 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:58:30pm

re: #477 realwest

Huh. The little box with get with TimeWarner's guide, said it had been made in 2006! Well whatever, didja see it?
Laura Bush is maybe the classiest First Lady I've ever seen (only on TV, of course) and George seemed really relaxed! Fascinating history though.

Of course I watched it--how else could I have seen the date on the calendar and heard the references to the dates? Right now I'm watching the re-play to the piece about Air Force One.

495 experiencedtraveller  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:58:30pm

re: #482 ggt

Hello Night Lizards! Ramos and Compean are free, free, free at last!

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

Humbly awaiting our Democratic overlord...

496 ggt  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:58:36pm

re: #484 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey, just waiting on the end of the last day of the rest of our lives.

Yeah, I've got a little over an hour left. I can't wait until tomorrow. My wrinkles will be gone as well as my gray hair. I don't know about the aches in my joints tho.

/

497 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:58:39pm

re: #472 Iron Fist

I met Gore when he was a Senator. The pre-rabid moonbat phase of his development. He seemed OK, if not particularly bright. Proximaty to the Clintons did not improve him. Not one least little bit.

2000 election ruined him...he has not accomplished one thing on his own in his entire life...that's why he's so fervent with GW...he's crazy actually imo

Ed was just a funny old guy...he joked with me

498 Ojoe  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:59:05pm

The Sun is about halfway through its main-sequence evolution, during which nuclear fusion reactions in its core fuse hydrogen into helium. Each second, more than 4 million tonnes of matter are converted into energy within the Sun's core, producing neutrinos and solar radiation; at this rate, the Sun will have so far converted around 100 Earth-masses of matter into energy.


Wiki article on the sun.

499 Wishing  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:59:13pm

re: #486 MandyManners

I bet their parents voted for CBBHO or Ron Paul.

Oh no Mandy, troofers, by and large, hate the zero and were sold out paulians. At least the ones I have met were like that.

500 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:59:22pm

re: #482 ggt

Hello Night Lizards! Ramos and Compean are free, free, free at last!

How are you-all and what are we talking about?

Have they actually left the prison?

501 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:59:28pm

re: #459 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

A rectal thermometer too!

Q: What's the difference between an oral thermometer and a rectal thermometer?

A: The taste...

502 ggt  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 8:59:43pm

re: #489 Dark_Falcon

I'm following a third way: immersing myself in science fiction and my way to avoid news programs that are wall-to-wall Obama love-ins. With my work's CNN feed, tomorrow will be very bad. If any of you read about someone in Cook County who had to be subdued after Obama's speech drove him crazy, it was probably me. In reality, I'll probably get through it but I won't have a good day. The pain Obama causes me is intense.


WHAT, pray tell, are you going to be reading? Have you entered it into the Book Category of the spin-off links?

503 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:00:02pm

re: #488 Wishing

I don't think *giving* to her community, or anyone else for that matter, has ever been a focus in this woman's life. She may want YOU to give, but I doubt that she will be darkening the door of a soup kitchen again, unless it is for a photo op. (God forgive me for my mean thoughts)

I agree with you.
Sorta reminds me of an ad one year that Hillary! ran - it ran at Christmas time, and she had all of these "gifts" she was giving out, nicely wrapped, with tags, "Universal Health Care", and other programs ALL to be paid through the taxpayer.

It was interesting to me that what she thought was a good Christmas gift was to spend other people's money.

504 Shug  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:00:07pm

re: #501 CIA Reject

Q: What's the difference between an oral thermometer and a rectal thermometer?

A: The taste...


I'll take your word for it

505 samsoncc  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:00:59pm

This article by John Derbyshire over at The New Criterion might be of interest to people annoyed with ID/C. At one point he says

...as I have long been predicting, the Intelligent Design promoters are abandoning their interest in general phylogeny and heading over to the mind-science labs to defend the soul. They are wise to do so, and can look forward with confidence to decades of conferences and junkets.

He believes the ID/C road is changing course (thanks to the likes of Charles, no doubt). Charles, what do you think of that from an "ideological" perspective? Not necessarily a policy (i.e. the effectiveness of the "wedge") perspective...

The article is from symposium called "The Dictatorship of Relativism." Read it; it doesn't get better... I do suggest a one of these first.

506 albusteve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:01:08pm

re: #479 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

If we had lost by one, I'd be pissed at you. But since we lost by, oh 5million I guess I can let it go.

thanks..I was sweatin that one...this is my first admission of my 'defiance'...it was a hard choice

507 Ojoe  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:01:08pm

re: #481 Haverwilde

Through about 95 % of Earth's climate history it was quite warmer than it now is anyway.

508 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:01:09pm

re: #472 Iron Fist

I met Gore when he was a Senator. The pre-rabid moonbat phase of his development. He seemed OK, if not particularly bright. Proximaty to the Clintons did not improve him. Not one least little bit.

He was tipped over the edge by his failure to achieve his daddy's dream. To top it off he had to play 2nd fiddle to a hick philanderer and his shrew of a wife. (I'd a gone nuts too in that situation).

509 Long Nics are Looonnng  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:01:15pm

re: #504 Shug

I'll take your word for it

Tastes worse than a suppository!

510 ggt  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:01:15pm

re: #493 jcw46

I suspected so also but I've always been fascinated about the sheer nerve the little birds have when they dive bomb crows or hawks (birds 4-6 times their size) when their nests are threatened. (I've seen that a lot driving on back roads in the countryside in a number of states from the midwest to the east coast).

WHATEVER you do, DO NOT walk near a nest of a red-winged black bird. They will dive-bomb you for a mile.

511 Wishing  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:01:23pm

RealWest
I turned my nick blue so you could email me, PLEASE!

512 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:01:39pm

re: #486 MandyManners

I bet their parents voted for CBBHO or Ron Paul.

I wish I thought that their parents had voted! It was news to many of my students that there was a black guy running for president. These are kids in high school, in an area where every other guy on the street is in an Obama t-shirt.

To be fair, we had some good kids, and some nice parents, and I hear it's gotten better gradually this year, although without me, thank God.

513 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:01:46pm

re: #490 Walter L. Newton

I'm just totally confused as to how Obama expects much interest in "community service" when most of the people he appeals to seem to think they are entitled to government handouts.

It's not going to work both ways.

The people who are being exhorted to engage in "community service" are people who will be providing for those who think they are entitled to the handouts.

I don't think he's asking the "handout" folks to do any volunteering - it's the rest of us.

I personally think that those of us who work have enough on our hands, and perhaps those folks who are getting those government handouts should be volunteering to clean up the parks, etc.

Like that's gonna happen.

514 Wishing  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:01:55pm

re: #500 MandyManners

Have they actually left the prison?

Nope, not for a few months (I don't know why).

515 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:02:06pm

re: #248 davinvalkri

Fuel or damper? If it's fuel, the uranium, plutonium what have you will have reacted to form lighter elements, minus a neutron or two which continues the reaction, so they'll be a bit lighter (albeit radioactive). If it's a damper rod that absorbs said loose neutrons, they'll be a bit heavier when their job's done. Unless I'm wrong about how commercial nuclear reactors work.

Not a nuclear fizzisist, but my understanding is that your understanding is basically correct. There would be some exchange of mass (so one would become lighter and one would become heavier; mass balance). But in the process, some mass is converted to energy. Therefore, the whole system would become lighter (by how much, I have no idea).

516 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:02:20pm

Heads up to Astro-lizards: Astrophysicist Neil Tyson will be on Jay Leno in a few minutes. Neil's quite a character, should be fun.

(I would have posted this earlier, but the spinning wheel of death locked up my browser. I had to close it and, as usual with Firefox, it took 20 minutes to re-start it.)

517 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:02:25pm

re: #499 Wishing

Oh no Mandy, troofers, by and large, hate the zero and were sold out paulians. At least the ones I have met were like that.

I've not met many troofers so I wouldn't know. I read on the sidebar to a YouTube clip in an OP today the title of a Ron Paul video that claimed Israel created Hamas to destroy Fatah.

518 ggt  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:02:33pm

re: #500 MandyManners

Have they actually left the prison?

No, I don't think so. They've got to be feeling so good tonite! Better, when they are actually sleeping in their own beds.

519 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:02:59pm

re: #476 SanFranciscoZionist

Can you give at least approximate location for this "school"?

520 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:03:09pm
521 Shug  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:03:24pm

re: #518 ggt

No, I don't think so. They've got to be feeling so good tonite! Better, when they are actually sleeping in their own beds.

I hope they write books and make millions.
then do the lecture circuit.

522 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:03:41pm

re: #224 Oh no...Sand People!


So shouldn't we be able to convert mass to energy and vise versa?

Can we do it now?

Yup. I do it every time I eat tri-tip.

523 Haverwilde  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:03:43pm

re: #507 Ojoe

Through about 95 % of Earth's climate history it was quite warmer than it now is anyway.

Yup, I completely agree. I just don't want to paint myself into a corner so that any confirmable data can be used against me.

524 mich-again  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:03:46pm

re: #510 ggt

WHATEVER you do, DO NOT walk near a nest of a red-winged black bird. They will dive-bomb you for a mile.

Oh I know thats true. I've sat at the kitchen table and watched them divebomb the dogs in the backyard.

525 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:03:48pm

re: #482 ggt
Hey ggt! We seem to be all over the place now. Mostly I been bitching about the forecast of 6" of snow for tomorrow and the possibility that I won't be able to get on LGF (cause Duke energy sorta loses it's mind- and we lose power and heat - whenever someone mentions freezing water).
How are y'all and whatcha been up to?

526 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:04:19pm

re: #252 Ojoe

Particle accelerators sometimes convert energy to mass.

But it takes a sh*tload (sorry, not scientific term) of energy input to do it.

527 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:04:41pm

re: #512 SanFranciscoZionist

I wish I thought that their parents had voted! It was news to many of my students that there was a black guy running for president. These are kids in high school, in an area where every other guy on the street is in an Obama t-shirt.

To be fair, we had some good kids, and some nice parents, and I hear it's gotten better gradually this year, although without me, thank God.

I could not have done that.

528 Wishing  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:04:44pm

re: #517 MandyManners

I've not met many troofers so I wouldn't know. I read on the sidebar to a YouTube clip in an OP today the title of a Ron Paul video that claimed Israel created Hamas to destroy Fatah.

Well,I think there is no doubt that Israel makes use of both factions, to play off one another rather than targeting Israel...but they HARDLY *created* them!
Shakes head...ron paul, gawd help us...

529 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:04:45pm

re: #484 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey, just waiting on the end of the last day of the rest of our lives.

Geez FBV. I hope you've locked up the meds and firearms. You sound almost suicidal.

530 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:05:12pm

re: #514 Wishing

Nope, not for a few months (I don't know why).

WTF? Their sentences have been erased.

531 Long Nics are Looonnng  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:05:13pm

Well guys, here in the east...it is the day.

Screw it! I don't need this! I don't need this at all!

532 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:05:44pm

re: #518 ggt

No, I don't think so. They've got to be feeling so good tonite! Better, when they are actually sleeping in their own beds.

Did ou see No. 514?

533 Neo Con since 9-11  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:06:05pm

12 hours to go.
Assume the crash postion...put your head between your legs and...kiss your ass goodbye

534 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:06:16pm

re: #519 jcw46

Can you give at least approximate location for this "school"?

Richmond, California. Not the Iron Triangle, the southern part of the city, but we got kids from all over the area.

535 Shug  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:06:34pm

re: #533 Neo Con since 9-11

12 hours to go.
Assume the crash postion...put your head between your legs and...kiss your ass goodbye


And Obama ain't no Sully.

536 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:06:41pm

re: #497 albusteve

2000 election ruined him...he has not accomplished one thing on his own in his entire life...that's why he's so fervent with GW...he's crazy actually imo

Ed was just a funny old guy...he joked with me

He had written Earth in the Balance before he became VP. That was the book in which he declared that the internal combustion engine was the greatest threat to the planet. He was nut before the Clintons.

537 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:06:45pm

re: #262 Maui Girl

The movie was Men in Black.

Great movie (even the kids like it).

538 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:07:03pm

re: #531 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well guys, here in the east...it is the day.

Screw it! I don't need this! I don't need this at all!

I'm looking east right now, the sky is dark here in Golden, Colorado, but I see a rainbow in the direction of Kansas. It's a miracle.

539 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:07:05pm

re: #527 MandyManners

I could not have done that.


According to my supervisors, neither could I.
/

540 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:07:07pm
541 notutopia  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:07:10pm

re: #531 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well guys, here in the east...it is the day.

Screw it! I don't need this! I don't need this at all!

I know you're not okay now... Not even cake?

542 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:07:15pm

re: #511 Wishing Done. But for some reason it went out via Windows mail; please reply to me at my e-mail addy (my nic's in blue too, but I think you can just hit reply).

543 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:07:19pm

re: #502 ggt

WHAT, pray tell, are you going to be reading? Have you entered it into the Book Category of the spin-off links?

Not so much book fiction but I'm going to work on a scenario for a board game I play called Classic Battletech. I will be reading some David Weber, though.

544 ggt  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:07:33pm

re: #525 realwest

Hey ggt! We seem to be all over the place now. Mostly I been bitching about the forecast of 6" of snow for tomorrow and the possibility that I won't be able to get on LGF (cause Duke energy sorta loses it's mind- and we lose power and heat - whenever someone mentions freezing water).
How are y'all and whatcha been up to?


Ah, to live in the South. The threat of snow causes traffic accidents . .

Feeling a bit under-the-weather today. Lots of naps, low-grade temp. I'm sure it will pass in due time. Thanks for askin'.

545 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:07:53pm

re: #531 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Well guys, here in the east...it is the day.

Screw it! I don't need this! I don't need this at all!

Do you, too, wander around with your pants around your ankles?

546 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:07:53pm

re: #533 Neo Con since 9-11

12 hours to go.
Assume the crash postion...put your head between your legs and...kiss your ass wallet goodbye

fixed.

547 Long Nics are Looonnng  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:08:05pm

re: #541 notutopia

Oh, cake?

548 Wishing  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:08:12pm

re: #530 MandyManners

WTF? Their sentences have been erased.

No, not quite. Bush did not PARDON them, he commuted their sentences. They remain convicted felons, but they are done serving time for their convictions.

549 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:08:22pm

re: #481 Haverwilde

I see a problem here. We pretty well know the GW/Clmate Change folks who yell 'the sky is falling' or 'The seas are rising' or some other nonsense are just full of Gore scat.
But to deny that there is any effect to our production of CO2 is also wrong. Okay, it may only account for a fraction of a degree, and is well within the average annual variation in temperature. But it has some effects such increased ocean acidity etc.

Exactly. CO2 is a greenhouse gas. But to make the "hockey stick" effect, the idea of "carbon forcing" was developed - it basically makes CO2 a catalyst for other follow on effects that cascade into a death spiral scenario of short circuiting the means by which this planet radiates away most of the light that hits it.

Carbon Forcing has yet to be observed as a phenomena. Had it happened (and there is plenty of CO2 being pumped into the atmosphere) there is just no way we would be seeing the cooling we are seeing.

CO2 is a factor and problem, but the science has not firmed up saying how much of a problem it is. And the alarmists have turned the issue into a religion. So if it does turn out to have an effect that requires some regulation (though probably not as severe as alarmists now insist) the whole idea of "CO2 warming the planet" will have been thoroughly discredited and then we will have a real problem.

Another problem is that a lot of funding is going to bad science in the name of virtue instead of taking on pollution and waste heat issues that are real.

550 Ojoe  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:08:26pm

re: #515 unakite

The Nagasaki bomb converted about one gram of matter to energy.

(.0353 Oz)

A copper penny weighs about 3.5 grams.

551 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:08:38pm

re: #511 Wishing Well something happend and my e-mail couldn't be delivered!
Can y'all e-mail me - my nic's always in blue!

552 Long Nics are Looonnng  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:08:41pm

re: #545 MandyManners

Do you, too, wander around with your pants around your ankles?

Only when I want to do it penguin style.

553 OldLineTexan  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:08:52pm

re: #517 MandyManners

I've not met many troofers so I wouldn't know. I read on the sidebar to a YouTube clip in an OP today the title of a Ron Paul video that claimed Israel created Hamas to destroy Fatah.

Damned Creationists, pushing ID (Israel Destruction) in schools.

554 ggt  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:09:08pm

re: #524 mich-again

Oh I know thats true. I've sat at the kitchen table and watched them divebomb the dogs in the backyard.

They are vicious. I saw them topple a guy on a bicycle once. (I was safely in my house LMAO--poor guy)

555 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:09:58pm

re: #264 davinvalkri

DOY! I just remembered my intro to special relativity class! When a photon strikes a small particle like an electron, the mass of the electron gets slightly larger thanks to the photon's energy! DOY DOY DOY!

But it loses the energy when it falls back into a lower energy state (makes a good flash, though).

556 Ojoe  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:10:11pm

re: #526 unakite

Yes, huge amounts of energy.

See post 550 above for the viewpoint from the other side of the equation.

557 ggt  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:10:13pm

re: #532 MandyManners

Did ou see No. 514?


yep. I don't think commutation erases their sentences.

558 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:10:59pm

re: #548 Wishing

No, not quite. Bush did not PARDON them, he commuted their sentences. They remain convicted felons, but they are done serving time for their convictions.

I know he commuted their sentences so, why aren't they have done their time?

559 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:11:02pm

re: #33 tradewind

DLTBGYD.
**don'tletthebastardsgetyadown
I really can't get too upset about this. Texas has some very find educational institutions, overzealous/misguided high schools notwithstanding, and stuff has a way of floating to the top.


If science is taught to non-standards, with hocus pocus baloney about young earth treated as on a par with real science, half the scientifically talented kids are going to be turned off on science.

I well remember how my daughter came home one day from school all excited about genes and recessive blue eyes and smooth vs. wrinkled peas and Mendel. Now she's an MD. These things matter. I get excited, (make that apoplectic) when these guys try to take that away from the next generation.

560 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:11:34pm

re: #266 mich-again

I say the exact opposite. When a person really understands what they are talking about, they can explain it to anyone.

If they're not a**holes.

561 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:12:04pm

re: #548 Wishing

No, not quite. Bush did not PARDON them, he commuted their sentences. They remain convicted felons, but they are done serving time for their convictions.

That kind of sums up Bush at the end of his second term. Instead of going all the way and doing the right thing by pardoning them, he goes part way in order to try and make everyone happy.

562 freetoken  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:12:24pm

re: #549 karmic_inquisitor

You've mischaracterized (or perhaps misunderstood) by what is meant by "forcing".

563 ggt  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:12:31pm

re: #550 Ojoe

The Nagasaki bomb converted about one gram of matter to energy.

(.0353 Oz)

A copper penny weighs about 3.5 grams.

HOW cool is that?

564 Long Nics are Looonnng  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:12:39pm

Happy Inauguration Day!

I'm going to bed. See y'all in the earlies.

565 notutopia  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:12:43pm

re: #547 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Warm gingerbread cake with a big dollop of real whipped cream, sprinkled with chopped walnuts?
I'll even put a fig on top...

566 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:12:44pm

re: #558 MandyManners

I know he commuted their sentences so, why aren't they free if they have done their time?

567 Macker  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:13:14pm

re: #498 Ojoe

OMGWAGD!

568 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:13:25pm
569 Long Nics are Looonnng  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:13:35pm

re: #565 notutopia

Warm? You are evil. See you tomorrow.

570 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:13:41pm

re: #404 realwest

Hey y'all - well freezing rain just started and they're still predicting 6" of snow tomorrow - and Duke Energey "reminded people" that when power lines get frozen there are sometimes "service interruptions" so I figured I'd hop on here since I probably won't be able to get on LGF (or turn on heat, stove, microwave or *gasp* coffee pot) tomorrow!
How is everyone tonight?

Wishing turned his nic to email blue for just as you left for dinner.
If you didn't get it here it is.

571 swamprat  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:13:52pm

politics of science;
Schrodinger's Castro
he is dead until proven alive, but if alive, he is as good as dead because he is no longer in power

Schrodinger's Bin Laden
same

Schrodinger's Mookie al Sadr
don't know if this persian shoe has made a public appearance within the last year.

I shall now propose my own theory of invisible enemies of America
The presence or lack of presence of an Enemy Of America is in direct proportion to the attention of a American president named Bush
The lack of visibility of Enemies of America is a result of

THE BUSH EFFECT

THE BUSH EFFECT can be seen on those entities mentioned but also on south Korean and African dictators

Watch as THE BUSH EFFECT wanes immediately after Tuesday 01-19-09. The result may be startling!

572 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:13:58pm

re: #533 Neo Con since 9-11

12 hours to go.
Assume the crash postion...put your head between your legs and...kiss your ass goodbye

I plan to be outside at 11CST, since I fully expect the Earth to open up and swallow my house at that hour.

573 Bloodnok  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:13:59pm

re: #550 Ojoe

The Nagasaki bomb converted about one gram of matter to energy.

(.0353 Oz)

A copper penny weighs about 3.5 grams.

So what you are saying is that my penny jar is a time bomb waiting to go off?

/throws jar out window

574 ggt  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:14:14pm

Anyone see the zooborns.com picture for today? I thought it was humorous

575 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:14:49pm

re: #566 MandyManners

Their sentences' will end on March 20th. Don't worry about that though, Obama cannot uncommute a sentence. Even the powers of The One have limits.

576 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:14:50pm

re: #574 ggt

Anyone see the zooborns.com picture for today? I thought it was humorous

Proof I've been right all the way down!

577 Ojoe  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:15:01pm

re: #568 Iron Fist

I think we are staving off the next ice age by adding fossil carbon back to the biosphere where it once before did circulate.

Good Night All.

578 Sharmuta  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:15:02pm

re: #574 ggt

Anyone see the zooborns.com picture for today? I thought it was humorous

It really IS turtles all the way down!

579 Pietr  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:15:14pm

It is Tuesday in Washington...so I guess this is appropriate...

580 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:15:29pm
581 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:15:31pm

re: #572 shiplord kirel

I plan to be outside at 11CST, since I fully expect the Earth to open up and swallow my house at that hour.

Gee, right before BO pays off your mortgage too.

Bummer...

582 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:15:32pm

re: #568 Iron Fist

We have some effect on our enviroment, yes. This is known. How much effect is an entirely different matter. The most truthful answer is that we simply do not know. I would submit to you that given as little evidence as we have, it would be somewhat premature to reverse the industrial revolution. This is especially true when the people claiming to have the answer only want to do it to the American economy.

That makes me a little suspicious. China is a big pollutor, but no one I've seen has called on China to curb her economic expansion. The same is true of India.

At the same time, the very people making dire predictions if we don't dramatically change our society are the most profligate consumers of energy in the country. Al Gore stands out as the veritable poster boy for this. He's too busy jetting around in his private jet to actually live in some of his huge, expensive to heat and cool houses. The man is a charleton. He clearly doesn't believe the horseshit he is selling.

If he doesn't believe it, why should I?

If we look further at those making dire claims we find that their answer is hard core socialism. That also makes me deeply suspicious.

583 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:15:42pm

re: #270 CIA Reject

EXACTLY! If you REALLY want to learn a subject- try to TEACH it!

Maybe that's why a lot of Public schools suck. The teachers are still trying to learn their subject (serious apologies if I offended any teachers. Talking about populations, not individuals).

584 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:15:57pm

re: #466 Shug

Is that really necessary in article about a back injury?

You really have to ask this when it concerns the FMSM? They think it was necessary, why else would they have put it in, DUH! ;)

585 notutopia  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:15:59pm

re: #569 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Sleep well!

586 swamprat  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:16:27pm

re: #571 swamprat

Pardon!
! NORTH Korean Dictators!
that's North!
North, don' cha know!

587 x-wing  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:16:46pm

re: #548 Wishing

No, not quite. Bush did not PARDON them, he commuted their sentences. They remain convicted felons, but they are done serving time for their convictions.


But they wont be released till March. Why is that?

588 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:16:48pm

re: #573 Bloodnok

So what you are saying is that my penny jar is a time bomb waiting to go off?

/throws jar out window


Oooowww! I was walking along and I just got beaned by a jar of pennies! Why? Why me?!
///

589 Haverwilde  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:17:16pm

re: #568 Iron Fist

Just call me 'FOX,' I want to be fair and balanced in my sort of conservative way.

I agree with your general analysis.

590 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:17:17pm

re: #275 OldLineTexan

You can get a reading list here that would make Burgess Meredith even sadder...

Twilight Zone. Just saw it.

591 Wishing  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:17:26pm

RealWest:
Email sent.

592 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:17:53pm

re: #561 Hard Right

That kind of sums up Bush at the end of his second term. Instead of going all the way and doing the right thing by pardoning them, he goes part way in order to try and make everyone happy.

I still think half an apple is better than none in this case. At least they got some recognition about the injustice done to them.

593 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:18:01pm

re: #583 unakite

Maybe that's why a lot of Public schools suck. The teachers are still trying to learn their subject (serious apologies if I offended any teachers. Talking about populations, not individuals).

I'm sure that is a large part of the problem in some schools.

594 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:18:09pm

re: #562 freetoken

You've mischaracterized (or perhaps misunderstood) by what is meant by "forcing".

My understanding was you have two basic effects that contribute to the "cascade" - luminosity and carbon feedbacks. Luminosity being from less light reflected back into space due to less snow / ice coverage and less cloud cover. The carbon feedback comes from things like warmed oceans and soil freeing sequestered CO2. I have heard other claims that other greenhouse gases get somehow amplified, but those seemed dubious to me and I have never thought them part of carbon forcing.

So please correct my explanation.

595 Bloodnok  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:18:14pm

re: #588 Hard Right

Oooowww! I was walking along and I just got beaned by a jar of pennies! Why? Why me?!
///

Pennies From Heaven

596 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:18:16pm

re: #520 Iron Fist

There are a lot of holes where we simply do not know.

Well, sure. But "Intelligent Design" is just a way of waving one's hands and saying "well, then, it must be magic".

597 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:18:18pm

re: #591 Wishing
Wishing - received and replied to, and Thank You!

598 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:18:44pm

re: #582 Hard Right

If we look further at those making dire claims we find that their answer is hard core socialism. That also makes me deeply suspicious.

When you dig further a lot of names of those involve in the nuclear freeze movement start popping up also. A lot of cross pollination between socialist and green organizations.

I did a bunch of digging awhile back.

599 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:18:46pm
600 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:18:53pm

re: #592 FurryOldGuyJeans

I still think half an apple is better than none in this case. At least they got some recognition about the injustice done to them.

True, it beats nothing. However, they are still convicted felons. I wish them luck in getting jobs.

601 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:19:10pm

re: #586 swamprat

Pardon!
! NORTH Korean Dictators!
that's North!
North, don' cha know!

Foghorn Leghorn, is that you?

602 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:19:11pm

re: #550 Ojoe

The Nagasaki bomb converted about one gram of matter to energy.

(.0353 Oz)

A copper penny weighs about 3.5 grams.

Got a source for that? Fascinating. I've always wondered about that.

603 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:20:26pm

re: #568 Iron Fist

We have some effect on our enviroment, yes. This is known. How much effect is an entirely different matter. The most truthful answer is that we simply do not know. I would submit to you that given as little evidence as we have, it would be somewhat premature to reverse the industrial revolution. This is especially true when the people claiming to have the answer only want to do it to the American economy.

That makes me a little suspicious. China is a big pollutor, but no one I've seen has called on China to curb her economic expansion. The same is true of India.

At the same time, the very people making dire predictions if we don't dramatically change our society are the most profligate consumers of energy in the country. Al Gore stands out as the veritable poster boy for this. He's too busy jetting around in his private jet to actually live in some of his huge, expensive to heat and cool houses. The man is a charleton. He clearly doesn't believe the horseshit he is selling.

If he doesn't believe it, why should I?

Reversing the industrial revolution would doom billions to die by starvation.
But that is what these leftists want, reducing the population.
May they be the first to go, suffering.

604 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:20:32pm

re: #600 Hard Right

True, it beats nothing. However, they are still convicted felons. I wish them luck in getting jobs.

Hopefully, someone who sought their release will be able to hire them.

605 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:21:18pm

re: #566 MandyManners

Not a lawyer but I'd guess that it's due to paperwork and the various agencies involved. Bush has essentially commanded their release and now that release has to go through a process of approvals and being signed off by agency heads and stuff. Maybe the prosecutor gets the opportunity to object and if so present evidence to that effect. there may be administrative actions for the part of their sentence that has to be setup before they are released. They still will be under supervision for 3 years. Bush essentially did a time warp thing and said "you have completed your prison time" so now the normal process of releasing a prisoner into supervisory custody has to take place. That's just an educated guess.

606 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:21:46pm

re: #602 Occasional Reader

Got a source for that? Fascinating. I've always wondered about that.

m=E/c2 where E=yield of bomb would be a good estimate.

607 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:22:00pm

Neil Tyson on Leno right now. Check it out.

608 Steve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:22:24pm

Tomorrow morning I will be serving grape koolaid and oreo cookies in front of my house.

609 Wishing  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:22:25pm

re: #597 realwest

Wishing - received and replied to, and Thank You!

You are more than welcome...I would count it an honor!

610 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:22:38pm

re: #583 unakite

Maybe that's why a lot of Public schools suck. The teachers are still trying to learn their subject (serious apologies if I offended any teachers. Talking about populations, not individuals).

My SiL and niece, who are both teachers (and great ones I have to add on pain of no more visits and dinners at their house), are even more vehement about the crap that happens in the public school system than you are. They pull NO punches about the political shenanigans of the Teachers Union.

611 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:22:51pm

re: #598 jcm

When you dig further a lot of names of those involve in the nuclear freeze movement start popping up also. A lot of cross pollination between socialist and green organizations.

I did a bunch of digging awhile back.


I love Horrowitz and his site. It amazes me how deeply entrenched, well funded, and well organized the far left is in this country. It gets depressing when I see we have no Conservative or anti-idiotarion version of our own.

612 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:23:34pm

re: #540 taxfreekiller Hey TFK - Earlier today I gave you some well deserved props for all your efforts on behalf of those two Border Guards - I'm personally grateful to you for your hard work over an unfortunately long period of time.
Thank you.

613 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:23:48pm

re: #600 Hard Right

True, it beats nothing. However, they are still convicted felons. I wish them luck in getting jobs.

They are now free to try to reverse their convictions, and they have lots of support from people around the country to help.

614 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:24:11pm

re: #604 Dark_Falcon

Hopefully, someone who sought their release will be able to hire them.

That is y hope as well. Still, the convictions will handicap them for years to come.

615 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:24:21pm

re: #233 Killgore Trout

Attn: GOP
Get rid of these creeps who want to follow Islam into the 11th century.
Thank you in advance for your cooperation,
Killgore

It is unsettling to observe the religious demagoguery that seems to pass for protected religious activity in the United States of America. The politically meddlesome YEC's are an embarrassment more appropriate to third world mental shitholes like Sudan or Saudi Arabia than to a Western nation which supposedly prides itself on its heritage as a first world scientific leader.

Seeking to delete accepted and proven scientific knowlege from school curricula raises the spectre of the anti-intellectual book-burning antics of Nazi Europe of the 1930's.

Attempts to cloak this kind of backward thinking with the mantle of legitimacy provided by SBOEs is a perversion of democracy no less frightening than the claims of legitimacy of the elected theocracies and terrorist entities of the Middle East. And mere reliance on Courts and the Constitution of the United States to restore the quality of education may be too little and too late to remedy the damage which will by then have already resulted.

Can the GOP really afford to have this albatross around its neck?

616 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:24:31pm

re: #611 Hard Right

I love Horrowitz and his site. It amazes me how deeply entrenched, well funded, and well organized the far left is in this country. It gets depressing when I see we have no Conservative or anti-idiotarion version of our own.

RoveCheneyHalliburton are better at covering their tracks...
///

617 JHW  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:24:39pm

re: #520 Iron Fist

I stand corrected. Like I said, when I had anthropology they were still teaching that the neanderthals were direct human ancestors. I knew that had changed, but I hadn't heard of neanderthal burial sites. That would imply non-human intelligence at some level that is above what we would call animal. I don't think (correct me if you know differently) that apes or monkeys bury their dead.

Another question is, were those hominid pre-humans the ancestors of neanderthals or homo sapiens? Both? Neither?

There are a lot of holes where we simply do not know.

Spain has an interesting history of early hominids.
Homo heidelbergensis

Atapuerca Site

Prehistoric Iberia

618 Alberta Oil Peon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:24:50pm

re: #148 jaunte

A physicist, a chemist, and a mathematician are stranded on a desert isle, when a can of food washes up on the beach. The three starving scientists suggest, in turn, how to open the can and ease their hunger. The physicist suggests they hurl it upon the rocks to split it open, but this fails. The chemist proposes they soak it in the sea and let the salt water eat away at the metal; again, no luck. They turn in desperation to the mathematician, who begins, “Assume we have a can opener….”

And then a plump geologist came along, and levered the top off the can by striking it obliquely against a sharp rock. And as the other three marveled at his cleverness, he gobbled down all the food, because, you know staying plump is hard work.

/plump geologist

619 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:25:03pm

re: #315 Occasional Reader

[weeping euphoric tears of joy]

I was in downtown DC earlier today, and... His Holy Motorcade drove right by me!

And I was instantly cured of my leprosy!

I passed by his motorcade when he was going to a speech before he got elected. Caused a huge traffic jam, but I didn't get squat.

620 Wishing  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:25:13pm

re: #615 Spare O'Lake

It is unsettling to observe the religious demagoguery that seems to pass for protected religious activity in the United States of America. The politically meddlesome YEC's are an embarrassment more appropriate to third world mental shitholes like Sudan or Saudi Arabia than to a Western nation which supposedly prides itself on its heritage as a first world scientific leader.

Seeking to delete accepted and proven scientific knowlege from school curricula raises the spectre of the anti-intellectual book-burning antics of Nazi Europe of the 1930's.

Attempts to cloak this kind of backward thinking with the mantle of legitimacy provided by SBOEs is a perversion of democracy no less frightening than the claims of legitimacy of the elected theocracies and terrorist entities of the Middle East. And mere reliance on Courts and the Constitution of the United States to restore the quality of education may be too little and too late to remedy the damage which will by then have already resulted.

Can the GOP really afford to have this albatross around its neck?

no.

621 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:26:04pm

re: #613 FurryOldGuyJeans

They are now free to try to reverse their convictions, and they have lots of support from people around the country to help.


I hope they succeed. I really do. They got screwed in a big way.

622 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:26:24pm

re: #606 CIA Reject

m=E/c2 where E=yield of bomb would be a good estimate.

Not even close. The yield is a minuscule fraction (fractions of a percent) of the total energy available from the mass. A atomic or nuclear bomb is just more effective because it does release more energy than one from a standard chemical bomb, but still far less than a total conversion.

623 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:26:39pm

re: #318 swamprat

Right next to Schrodinger's cat.

So the question is, is it there or isn't it (open the drawer to find out)?

624 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:27:09pm

re: #616 jcm

RoveCheneyHalliburton are better at covering their tracks...
///

Ha. I so wish that was true.

625 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:27:19pm

re: #618 Alberta Oil Peon

And then a plump geologist came along, and levered the top off the can by striking it obliquely against a sharp rock. And as the other three marveled at his cleverness, he gobbled down all the food, because, you know staying plump is hard work.

/plump geologist

Plump geologist are good BBQed I hear.
/ ;-)

626 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:27:23pm

re: #619 unakite

I passed by his motorcade when he was going to a speech before he got elected. Caused a huge traffic jam, but I didn't get squat.

That is because you did not have Faith in The One.

627 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:27:44pm

re: #622 FurryOldGuyJeans

Not even close. The yield is a minuscule fraction (fractions of a percent) of the total energy available from the mass. A atomic or nuclear bomb is just more effective because it does release more energy than one from a standard chemical bomb, but still far less than a total conversion.

Right you are - I forgot the 2nd law of thermodynamics!

628 Haverwilde  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:28:16pm

re: #600 Hard Right

True, it beats nothing. However, they are still convicted felons. I wish them luck in getting jobs.

By the time they are released I would bet you they will each of a job offers all over the country. If I had a job to offer, I would. I can't be alone in that. I believe in the American Red states and their people's fairness.

629 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:28:27pm

re: #570 jcm
Hey jcm - thank you very kindly but we did hook up by e-mail!
How are you doing my friend?!

630 Pietr  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:28:31pm

re: #612 realwest

Posted this b4, RW-guess you missed it:


Evening, RW-tried to email you-and ran into the usual roadblock. My name is blue-and I check my spam folder. Use a good title, maybe 1 Re absent friends...Cheers.

631 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:29:11pm

re: #336 Basho

Where would one get a tub big enough?

Oprah's bathroom?

632 Alberta Oil Peon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:29:12pm

re: #163 KingKenrod

I've seen some interesting experiments about the abiotic origin of life, but nothing approaching success in accurately describing the process. Scientists should be careful about stating something as unassailable fact when they can't back it up with solid evidence - they are basically doing exactly what the ID crowd accuses them of doing.

If you read the entire document linked above, you will find that the course outline describes several competing hypotheses for the abiotic origin of life. These hypotheses will have to be tested before they can be incorporated into theory.

633 notutopia  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:30:09pm

Nytol!

634 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:30:17pm

re: #627 CIA Reject

Right you are - I forgot the 2nd law of thermodynamics!

Better than to forget the 1st Law of Thermonuclear Dynamics. ;)

635 Steve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:32:07pm

re: #15 Fat Jolly Penguin

I wonder if one of the rovers will run across a Taco Time somewhere?

I hear that a 'popeye's' is in the works up there.

636 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:32:24pm

re: #619 unakite

I passed by his motorcade when he was going to a speech before he got elected. Caused a huge traffic jam, but I didn't get squat.

Well, my computer is now working correctly when it comes to LGF. I couldn't quote anyone, refresh, or even log in. Now it's healed. Either it's due to obama, or I need to start a new religion. First Church of the Great Lizard.

637 Wendya  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:32:31pm

re: #285 Sharmuta

I don't disagree that pushing the GW agenda is going to hurt this country.

But the difference is there is not a single shred of scientific evidence to support the position of the YEC/IDers. Climate Change does happen- the debate centers on our role, and the scientific method will eventually bring some consensus.

There is no single shred of scientific evidence that shows man is having a deleterious effect on our climate. Unlike the IDers, the adherents of the church of global warming can destroy our economy and standard of living. Each group is dangerous but the global warming freaks present a more immediate danger. I'm not going to cheer for "science" if they teach AGW bullshit.

638 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:33:10pm

re: #568 Iron Fist
Hey Iron Fist - I thought Gore did believe it! In fact he buys carbon credits from a corporation set up to do just that - buy and sell carbon credits!
Oh, and Al is CEO and Chairman of the Board of that corporation too, IIRC - so you see, he does believe in it!
/

639 swamprat  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:33:35pm

re: #632 Alberta Oil Peon

There are planets enshrouded in methane.
Unless you subscribe to my personal theory of
bean eating meteorites
you have to accept that organic compounds can come from inorganic processes, but that is a far cry from life.

640 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:33:36pm

re: #635 Steve

I hear that a 'popeye's' is in the works up there.

Are there still Taco Tico's? I think they were in Cali.

641 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:33:43pm

re: #629 realwest

Hey jcm - thank you very kindly but we did hook up by e-mail!
How are you doing my friend?!

Well, getting used to the new one. Got a five week old 9 days ago, and sent the 9 month old back to family. Getting used to the new one, just got her feed and settled down. Now have to get kids clothes laid out for tomorrow, clean up the kitchen etc... and keep on eye on goings on here. Keeps me busy and out of trouble.

642 Bloodnok  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:33:55pm

Goodnight all. Tomorrow is just another day. I shall avoid the TV as usual and will spend my time making bad jokes on a well respected blog. Don't let the media fawning get you down, Lizards.

643 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:34:08pm

re: #639 swamprat

There are planets enshrouded in methane.
Unless you subscribe to my personal theory of
bean eating meteorites
you have to accept that organic compounds can come from inorganic processes, but that is a far cry from life.

Space cows?
//

644 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:34:30pm

re: #636 Hard Right

Well, my computer is now working correctly when it comes to LGF. I couldn't quote anyone, refresh, or even log in. Now it's healed. Either it's due to obama, or I need to start a new religion. First Church of the Great Lizard.

No, we should praise Charles, not worship him. He has an important role to play in any anti-idiotarian comeback but it will not be a primary role. For that we still need a political star.

645 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:35:33pm

re: #640 jcw46

Are there still Taco Tico's? I think they were in Cali.

Not just in CA.

646 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:35:55pm

re: #634 FurryOldGuyJeans

Better than to forget the 1st Law of Thermonuclear Dynamics. ;)

But, if you look at it the other way 'round and put 1gm into the Einstein equation you get what, 9x1013 joules - right?

What's that in kilotons?

The fact that the bomb used many kilograms of material (vice 1 gram) would account for the efficiency no?

647 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:36:39pm

re: #368 avanti

I still remember most of one of the test questions. It went something like a aircraft at 20,000 feet, fires a projectile vertically at 1100/fps, neglecting drag, what is the maximum height of the projectile, how long to get there, velocity when it passes 20,000 feet on the way down, at what time, velocity on impact, and time. (or something close) Just a plug and chug calculus deal, but a bitch on a slide rule.

My dad used a slide rule. He tried to teach me (off and on), but I never got it (he kept talking about logs and zeros and stuff). btw, if I remember my physics, velocity on the way down (neglecting drag) should be 1100/fps.

648 abolitionist  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:37:08pm

I think someone linked to this a day or two ago:
The Mystery of Empty Space:
Higgs Bosons, Vacuum Energy and Extra Dimensions
Presented by Kim Griest

I found it interesting and not terribly geeky, jargon-wise. There's a whopper of a factual blunder in the very first image slide, however. Can you spot it?

649 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:37:41pm

re: #644 Dark_Falcon

No, we should praise Charles, not worship him. He has an important role to play in any anti-idiotarian comeback but it will not be a primary role. For that we still need a political star.

Charles is but the prophet of the Great Lizard. I worship the Great Lizard, not Charles.
///
The problem with a candidate is that the MSM will not let the message get out. They will distort it and twist it until it it's 180 degrees from what it actually is. In other words, they will be McCained.

650 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:38:16pm
651 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:38:34pm

re: #649 Hard Right

Charles is but the prophet of the Great Lizard. I worship the Great Lizard, not Charles.
///
The problem with a candidate is that the MSM will not let the message get out. They will distort it and twist it until it it's 180 degrees from what it actually is. In other words, they will be McCained.

There is one true Lizard, thou shall have no other Lizards before him.
///

652 swamprat  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:39:11pm

re: #632 Alberta Oil Peon

I was unable to see these; could you copy and paste 2 or 3 quotes so I do a search?

653 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:39:17pm

re: #650 ploome hineni

anyone see this?

New York -

(Troofer mode) Bush is at it again! He tried to shoot it down with missiles!
///

654 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:39:43pm

re: #649 Hard Right

Charles is but the prophet of the Great Lizard. I worship the Great Lizard, not Charles.
///
The problem with a candidate is that the MSM will not let the message get out. They will distort it and twist it until it it's 180 degrees from what it actually is. In other words, they will be McCained.

"McCained" Geez - so that's McCain's legacy eh? To have his name enshrined as a verb just like judge Bork.

Fitting I guess...

655 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:40:15pm

re: #651 jcm

There is one true Lizard, thou shall have no other Lizards before him.
///

That shall not covet thy neighbor's Lizard. (That just sounds dirty.)

656 Wishing  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:40:27pm

re: #648 abolitionist

I think someone linked to this a day or two ago:
The Mystery of Empty Space:
Higgs Bosons, Vacuum Energy and Extra Dimensions
Presented by Kim Griest

I found it interesting and not terribly geeky, jargon-wise. There's a whopper of a factual blunder in the very first image slide, however. Can you spot it?

Mauna Kea is dormant, not extinct.

657 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:40:33pm

re: #550 Ojoe

The Nagasaki bomb converted about one gram of matter to energy.

(.0353 Oz)

A copper penny weighs about 3.5 grams.

I get almost exactly 3 grams. Use kilotons to joulesBut yes, e=mc^2 is a potent multiplier.

658 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:40:45pm

re: #650 ploome hineni

anyone see this?

New York -

He added, "About 10 minutes later when we never made the turn, we kept going, that's when the pilot came on and explained -- I wish I could remember the words -- I remember him using air, compression and lock -- I'm not sure the right order, but he made it sound like the air didn't get to the engine and it stalled the engine out, which he said doesn't happen all the time but it's not abnormal."

Compressor Stall.

659 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:40:58pm

re: #646 CIA Reject

But, if you look at it the other way 'round and put 1gm into the Einstein equation you get what, 9x1013 joules - right?

What's that in kilotons?

The fact that the bomb used many kilograms of material (vice 1 gram) would account for the efficiency no?

The efficiency comes directly from the fact that the nuclear reaction releases energy by converting mass, but the amount converted is just a fraction of the total mass. Chemical reactions involve just molecular bonds and so release a lot less energy per unit of reactant, and while there is SOME mass conversion it is orders of magnitude less than that derived from a nuclear reaction, fission or fusion.

660 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:41:09pm

re: #285 Sharmuta

I don't disagree that pushing the GW agenda is going to hurt this country.

But the difference is there is not a single shred of scientific evidence to support the position of the YEC/IDers. Climate Change does happen- the debate centers on our role, and the scientific method will eventually bring some consensus.

I am seeing a "vicious circle" sort of thing in these unrelated subjects.

How capable will future generations be at debunking AGW type claims if groups like the Disco Institute succeed with their anti-science agenda?

661 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:41:15pm

re: #649 Hard Right

Charles is but the prophet of the Great Lizard. I worship the Great Lizard, not Charles.
///
The problem with a candidate is that the MSM will not let the message get out. They will distort it and twist it until it it's 180 degrees from what it actually is. In other words, they will be McCained.

McCain allowed that to happen. He was far too concerned with playing nice and could not bring himself to fight the PR battle he needed to fight. It is possible to wage a proper campaign: By building a media support system. Don't seek MSM approval, get a select number of commentators and reporters who are on your side. Some might well be from MSM organizations. The idea is not win broad media approval, but rather to have enough support to ensure your message gets out.

662 freetoken  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:41:29pm

re: #594 karmic_inquisitor

There are three concepts:

"forcing"
"feedback"
"runaway"

... that should not be confused.

E.g., a "forcing" should not be understood in a way that some of the denotations of the English word "force" can be used. In the case of climatologists, "forcing" is a way to quantify the change in energy per unit time per unit area (thus it ends up having the units Watts / meter^2 .) Climatologists don't have a "forcing" for generic CO2... rather one has to say a certain amount of CO2, or change in CO2, has a particular "forcing", just like anything else (you can break down the total irradiance of energy to the surface of the earth due to water vapor, ozone, dust, net effects from Volcanoes, etc.)

When scientists come up with different "forcings" for different physical phenomena/objects they are not necessarily implying feedbacks but are doing accounting (in this case for energy, not dollars.)

A feedback is a way of understanding a system whose change affects itself... the concept has been developed extensively in electrical engineering and systems engineering, and is now used when trying to describe natural phenomena applying the same basic mathematical ideas.

A runaway scenario means that when a system changes from one state to another, the final state is far from the beginning state. This would occur for instance when one only has positive feedbacks (until some catastrophic failure occurs.) Thus if Earth ends up being like Venus (unlikely and I've never seen an actual scientific paper referenced that says Earth will end up like Venus) in a (geologically) short time, that would be the result of a runaway system.

The internet is full (quite full) of descriptions of these ideas. I know I have quite a few links to sites, and any google search would likely turn up thousands.

663 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:42:09pm

re: #654 CIA Reject

"McCained" Geez - so that's McCain's legacy eh? To have his name enshrined as a verb just like judge Bork.

Fitting I guess...

Well, I just coined it-patent pending. ;)
I'm old enough to remember Borking. Yet, those very people who did that are now overwhelminly in charge. Depressing.

664 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:43:28pm

re: #630 Pietr Hey there Pietr - I tried e-mailing Wishing just a while ago and for some reason using Charles' "safe" e-mail takes me to windows e-mail which refuses to send e-mails (probably because I haven't set it up yet!) But my nic is always in blue, would y'all mind e-mailing me?

665 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:44:22pm
666 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:44:47pm

re: #414 Walter L. Newton

Well, I don't know how old you are, but I would answer because "it's fun." When I was in my 20's and 30's, I had a library of over 1000 books on pseudo-science topics. In the 70's, I even had a once a month 5 hour radio (ala Coast to Coast) in Dallas.

It's all interesting, but after a while you develop better critical thinking skills and you start getting better at questioning these things.

So, now in my middle 50's, it take a whole lot more than a bunch of electromagnets and wires to fool me.

Tinfoil hat?
//

667 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:44:55pm

re: #633 notutopia
Good night notutopia - keep that diesel generator primed and ready!

668 Alberta Oil Peon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:45:25pm

re: #250 Oh no...Sand People!

So in theory, somewhere down the line as technology progresses we should be able to say, take some 'energy' and reorganize it into say for example... a spoon?

In theory, or perhaps I should say, in principle, you could. But it would take an immense amount of energy to make a spoon, or any macroscopic object.

Much cheaper to mine and refine the metals, and stamp them into spoons.

669 Winston Smith, Fox News Moderator  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:45:28pm

When he isn't spewing hatred and falsehood about Catholics, Pagans, and Mormons (among many others) , barking mad cartoon entrepreneur Jack Chick goes after evolution, with such asinine comics as Big Daddy and How Old is the Earth?
These are the source for many of the most common creationist (especially YeC) talking points and false claims.

I have a big collection of Chick tracts, thanks to an unknown benefactor who haunted the faculty parking lot some years ago. For a whole semester, I would come out to my car at the end of each day to find a fresh Chick tract under the windshield. This was against the rules but someone felt strongly enough about my views to try to enlighten me. The campus police probably could have stopped this but I thought they had better things to do, and the material did provide a lot of insight into the creationist mindset.

670 Timbre  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:45:44pm

O/T: Uh-oh; my state is in trouble with the United Nations International Court of Justice {choke}. Looks like we punished a rapist-murderer without letting him chat with the cultural attache of the Mexican Consulate. Blue helmets set to invade Padre Island and Galveston Bay!

That last sentence is /.

671 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:45:56pm

re: #661 Dark_Falcon

McCain allowed that to happen. He was far too concerned with playing nice and could not bring himself to fight the PR battle he needed to fight. It is possible to wage a proper campaign: By building a media support system. Don't seek MSM approval, get a select number of commentators and reporters who are on your side. Some might well be from MSM organizations. The idea is not win broad media approval, but rather to have enough support to ensure your message gets out.

Not to excuse his egotistical need to maintain his idea of the high ground, but exactly who could he have turned to other than Fox? No, the MSM got together in lock step and there was little McCain could do.

672 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:46:10pm

re: #645 FurryOldGuyJeans
ah, thanks. My memory was wrong about them being in Cali but I knew I'd seen them somewhere. The name just always stuck with me.

673 Killian Bundy  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:46:23pm

Al Qaeda bungles arms experiment

An al Qaeda affiliate in Algeria closed a base earlier this month after an experiment with unconventional weapons went awry, a senior U.S. intelligence official said Monday.

The official, who spoke on the condition he not be named because of the sensitive nature of the issue, said he could not confirm press reports that the accident killed at least 40 al Qaeda operatives, but he said the mishap led the militant group to shut down a base in the mountains of Tizi Ouzou province in eastern Algeria.

He said authorities in the first week of January intercepted an urgent communication between the leadership of al Qaeda in the Land of the Maghreb (AQIM) and al Qaeda's leadership in the tribal region of Pakistan on the border with Afghanistan. The communication suggested that an area sealed to prevent leakage of a biological or chemical substance had been breached, according to the official.

"We don't know if this is biological or chemical," the official said.

The story was first reported by the British tabloid the Sun, which said the al Qaeda operatives died after being infected with a strain of bubonic plague, the disease that killed a third of Europe's population in the 14th century. But the intelligence official dismissed that claim.

/foreshadowing

674 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:46:59pm

re: #659 FurryOldGuyJeans

The efficiency comes directly from the fact that the nuclear reaction releases energy by converting mass, but the amount converted is just a fraction of the total mass. Chemical reactions involve just molecular bonds and so release a lot less energy per unit of reactant, and while there is SOME mass conversion it is orders of magnitude less than that derived from a nuclear reaction, fission or fusion.

OK that makes sense. And using the converter that "lostlakehiker" posted above that 9x1013 joules that 1gm converts to gives 21 kilotons which is right in the middle of the range for estimates of Fat Man's yield (18-23 kilotons). So the initial claim that the yield represented the conversion of a single gram to pure energy is accurate.

675 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:47:07pm

re: #568 Iron Fist

We have some effect on our enviroment, yes. This is known. How much effect is an entirely different matter. The most truthful answer is that we simply do not know. I would submit to you that given as little evidence as we have, it would be somewhat premature to reverse the industrial revolution. This is especially true when the people claiming to have the answer only want to do it to the American economy.

That makes me a little suspicious. China is a big pollutor, but no one I've seen has called on China to curb her economic expansion. The same is true of India.

At the same time, the very people making dire predictions if we don't dramatically change our society are the most profligate consumers of energy in the country. Al Gore stands out as the veritable poster boy for this. He's too busy jetting around in his private jet to actually live in some of his huge, expensive to heat and cool houses. The man is a charleton. He clearly doesn't believe the horseshit he is selling.

If he doesn't believe it, why should I?

Al Gore is a hoax-ter. Fine. And he doesn't believe what he's selling. I don't either. I do believe that human-induced global warming is likely to be a problem that's big enough we have to pay attention.

China seems to believe it too. She's had terrible environmental problems recently. Some of that is their own local fault, but they think they see the fingerprints of global warming on the rest.

China may be willing to move to wind, solar, nuclear, water, geothermal, etc. and is certainly interested in moving to less inefficient ways to burn coal. Nobody, [nobody accountable to a nation-sized public, that is] anywhere, is willing to reverse the industrial revolution. The way out of our problems is Up and out, not down and out.

676 Timbre  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:47:35pm

re: #673 Killian Bundy

Don't pet the Haram rats you Jihadiots!

677 Wishing  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:48:07pm

re: #673 Killian Bundy

Al Qaeda bungles arms experiment

/foreshadowing

Ut oh...

678 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:48:22pm

re: #673 Killian Bundy

Al Qaeda bungles arms experiment


/foreshadowing

We know they have been working on such things. It may be only a matter of time.

679 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:48:34pm
680 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:48:57pm

re: #649 Hard Right

Charles is but the prophet of the Great Lizard. I worship the Great Lizard, not Charles.
///
The problem with a candidate is that the MSM will not let the message get out. They will distort it and twist it until it it's 180 degrees from what it actually is. In other words, they will be McCained.

I've said it before (and got laughed at) and I'll say it again. Conservatism will not gain greater acceptance in the US until something is done to counteract the left-wing media.

681 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:49:36pm
682 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:49:38pm

re: #665 ploome hineni

how does this little, somewhat obscure little blog get this info, while the MSM is sitting in the street waiting for the crowds to arrive for the inaguration, so they can describe Michelles' latest costume disaster?

I can only speak for myself, but I find the very notion of what WAB will be wearing to be one of supreme indifference and such such insignificance when compared to the longevity of the gnat flying around my monitor at the moment.

But then I was never one to be a blind follower of anything except for my conscience, insights, and interests. I was never a lady killer, meh.

683 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:50:11pm

re: #662 freetoken

Thank you. I will try to use the climatology nomenclature more precisely.

Would you agree that, based on the understanding of Mann's hockey stick that pretty much set off the alarm bells in 2001, we have not seen the "runaway" effects (in terms of runaway temperature increases) predicted? Have we ever observed a runaway phenomena in climate records?

684 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:50:47pm

re: #680 jcw46

I've said it before (and got laughed at) and I'll say it again. Conservatism will not gain greater acceptance in the US until something is done to counteract the left-wing media.

Exactly. While the internet is a good tool, it simply isn't enough. We need to infiltrate and take over the MSM. Heck, after we do that they may start making monet again.

685 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:50:53pm

re: #641 jcm I remember you had to send the 9 month year old one back to her family but hadn't heard about the new one. I bet this keeps y'all outta trouble!
And, FWIW, I think you're a damn fine man my friend.

686 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:51:16pm
687 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:52:26pm

re: #673 Killian Bundy

Al Qaeda bungles arms experiment

/foreshadowing

It will be interesting to see if Obama goes ahead and starts dismantling the Bush counter terror infrastructure.

688 Timbre  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:52:31pm

re: #686 ploome hineni

I was rootin' for Fred Thompson!

689 Wishing  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:53:00pm

re: #688 Timbre

I was rootin' for Fred Thompson!

...anyone but McCain.
Sigh.

690 Slumbering Behemoth  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:53:14pm

re: #669 shiplord kirel

You forgot this one: Moving On Up!

I wouldn't trust Chick with half a tootsie roll, that dude is thoroughly blinkered.

691 Kragar  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:53:35pm

re: #686 ploome hineni


we needed Romney

Yup. And McCain and Huckabee worked together to block him.

692 abolitionist  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:54:05pm

re: #656 Wishing

Mauna Kea is dormant, not extinct.

Maybe so.

Sheepish confession - it seems I can't count. I meant that 3rd slide - about smashing a block of ice to get water molecules. Should be HOH, not OHO.

693 Pietr  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:54:15pm

re: #638 realwest

Hey Iron Fist - I thought Gore did believe it! In fact he buys carbon credits from a corporation set up to do just that - buy and sell carbon credits!
Oh, and Al is CEO and Chairman of the Board of that corporation too, IIRC - so you see, he does believe in it!
/

Hmmm... BEEEPPP-wrong answer, RW. Algore believes in making money-which he does by promoting his GoreBULL warming, and selling scare tickets to the gullibe. Kinda like the Peeps selling parcels on the Moon and Mars, IMHO...:>))

694 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:54:35pm

re: #684 Hard Right

Exactly. While the internet is a good tool, it simply isn't enough. We need to infiltrate and take over the MSM. Heck, after we do that they may start making monet again.

Even if the media hadn't been in the tank for BO McCain still would have had an uphill fight because he had voluntarily tied one hand behind his back by accepting public financing. Sure BO had pledged to do the same, but you think McCain would have been savvy enough to know that was a lie.

At the end of the day McCain brought a knife to a gunfight and the result was inevitable.

695 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:54:43pm
696 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:55:09pm

re: #653 Hard Right
Bullshit! It was Bloomberg I tell ya - making a run for mayor yet again - I know he ran twice as a R but this time it's as a D.
It's hard to keep track of a man with those kinda flexible beliefs, but that and all his money have made him a successful politician!

697 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:55:14pm

re: #687 karmic_inquisitor

It will be interesting to see if Obama goes ahead and starts dismantling the Bush counter terror infrastructure.

"Interesting". Yes. That's the word I was looking for.

/checking filter expiration date on gas mask

698 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:55:24pm

re: #678 Hard Right

We know they have been working on such things. It may be only a matter of time.

For 60 years our policy of proportional response to a WMD of any type has been a nuc.

I wonder the policy is starting at noon tomorrow?

699 Kragar  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:55:26pm

re: #695 ploome hineni

whatsa WAB?

Whiney Ass Bitch

700 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:55:32pm
701 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:56:36pm

re: #674 CIA Reject

OK that makes sense. And using the converter that "lostlakehiker" posted above that 9x1013 joules that 1gm converts to gives 21 kilotons which is right in the middle of the range for estimates of Fat Man's yield (18-23 kilotons). So the initial claim that the yield represented the conversion of a single gram to pure energy is accurate.

The main problem when it comes to yield of a fission/fusion device is the expanding shock front from the release of energy dispersing the material past its critical mass size, thus ending the self-sustaining on-going reaction.

Fusion is especially problematical in that to start a fusion reaction best uses the energy of a fission reaction, yet must be quick enough to overcome the dispersal of the material caused by the fission reaction required to undergo fusion.

702 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:56:36pm

Meandering out of here for the night...night all.

703 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:57:01pm

re: #671 Hard Right

Not to excuse his egotistical need to maintain his idea of the high ground, but exactly who could he have turned to other than Fox? No, the MSM got together in lock step and there was little McCain could do.

He should have tried to pry a couple of individual reporters loose. Failing that, he should have embraced Fox and denounced the MSM. Use what you've got, never fight fair. The moral high ground is overrated (says the guy from Chicago).

704 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:57:26pm
705 Wishing  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:57:30pm

re: #692 abolitionist

Maybe so.

Sheepish confession - it seems I can't count. I meant that 3rd slide - about smashing a block of ice to get water molecules. Should be HOH, not OHO.

So, two errors in three slides?
And you recommend the vid? LOLOL

706 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:57:40pm

re: #695 ploome hineni

whatsa WAB?

Whiny Ass Bitch, or so I have been told by various lizards who have used the term before me. ;)

707 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:57:42pm

re: #701 FurryOldGuyJeans

The main problem when it comes to yield of a fission/fusion device is the expanding shock front from the release of energy dispersing the material past its critical mass size, thus ending the self-sustaining on-going reaction.

Fusion is especially problematical in that to start a fusion reaction best uses the energy of a fission reaction, yet must be quick enough to overcome the dispersal of the material caused by the fission reaction required to undergo fusion.

How anything can be made to react that fast is amazing.

708 Wishing  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:57:46pm

re: #702 SanFranciscoZionist

Meandering out of here for the night...night all.

Sleep well.

709 Pietr  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:57:50pm

re: #700 ploome hineni

he wasn't even acting as if he was trying

Unfortunately...

710 Kragar  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:58:04pm

Speaking of WABs

Battered Liberal Syndrome

Perhaps there is something in the soul of Democrats, scarred by the stolen election of 2000 and a close loss in 2004, that anticipates setback. Call it Battered Liberal Syndrome. This time, it’s not electoral defeat Democrats fear, but a devaluation of last November’s victory, a scenario in which progressive policy is undermined and Democratic dreams are once again deferred.

A number of liberal bloggers and columnists, most notably the New York Times’ Paul Krugman, worry, hint or state outright that Obama appears to be selling his mandate short. Their indictment of the stimulus—or recovery plan, as Obama prefers to call it—is that the plan is both less efficient and less fair because it includes tax cuts. Then there’s Obama’s reluctance to pledge to investigate and prosecute a wide array of misconduct in the Bush administration. Obama is reproved for his resolve to focus on the future, not the past. At the least, dissenters on the left insist, he should establish a truth finding panel, with subpoena power, to rake through the Bush detritus and expose it to the world.

711 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:58:57pm
712 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:59:09pm

re: #686 ploome hineni

McCain is an asshole

have you seen his with Hannity?

he didn;t have the fight in him for the White House...he was the spoiler

we needed Romney

Beside the obvious problems with him, McCain was another Bob Dole candidate === "it's MY turn now". These Senators are in constant flux over who's got seniority for this or that. They're worse than old union guys. They equate time in office with experience and knowledge. But all they've been doing is the same thing for 20 years. They're insulated from real life and do hardly any actual work for massive amounts of power and influence. It's like 100 CEO's and everybody's trying to kiss their ass(es).

BTW until the Reps in the states eliminate cross party voting in primaries, I'll never contribute to them again.

713 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:59:25pm

re: #703 Dark_Falcon

He should have tried to pry a couple of individual reporters loose. Failing that, he should have embraced Fox and denounced the MSM. Use what you've got, never fight fair. The moral high ground is overrated (says the guy from Chicago who won!).

If you find yourself in a fair fight you have screwed up...

714 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 9:59:53pm

re: #707 CIA Reject

How anything can be made to react that fast is amazing.

A millisecond is too long an interval to best catalog a fission or fusion device's reaction interval.

715 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:00:00pm

re: #710 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

scarred by the stolen election of 2000

My God. These people are completely insane.

716 Alberta Oil Peon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:00:42pm

re: #363 Walter L. Newton

It's a motor. Start it and then remove the power from it. Or let me see it putting out more energy than it's using. None of those videos even address those issues.

Like I said before, anyone coming up with a perpetual motion energy source would have the world knocking at his door, not some clandestine lab in Thailand.

Oh yes, work in Thailand, that hotbed of cutting-edge science, living on the money from gullible investors, and banging bar-girls all night. Sound slike a good gig, if you can get it.

/

717 Dustyvet  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:00:49pm

re: #677 Wishing

Ut oh...

Al Qaeda bungles arms experiment

Achmed forgot to latch on the door to the rat cage...

718 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:00:51pm
719 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:01:12pm

re: #713 CIA Reject

If you find yourself in a fair fight you have screwed up...

For too many the only fair fight in politics is the one you win, any means necessary.

720 Spare O'Lake  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:02:13pm

re: #681 buzzsawmonkey

Bronto-tsuris. I'm tired of Bronto-tsuris.
Maybe I need a Bronto-seltzer.

Are we a bunch of Tyranno tsuris wrecks?

721 x-wing  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:02:16pm

re: #675 lostlakehiker

Not to be a stickler. China needs to find a way to capture the pollutants coming out of their stacks. The more efficient you burn coal, the more NOx you create. My plant has been trying different things(at a great expense) to burn coal more cleanly. And it's always a give and take. When we lower the NOx out put we increase ash. I don't have many answers,but right now they are looking at a scubber system which will cost 40 million, or just shut ours down and build a new boiler.

I'm not looking forward to what may come of the next four years. I don't want to lose my job because a bunch of idiots think they can save the Earth, especially when the science isn't totally behind it.

722 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:02:25pm
723 Wishing  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:02:34pm

re: #718 ploome hineni

Thompson wan't hungry for the White House

he has it all...Hollywood, the young smart wife and kiddies

royalties from all thsoe Law and Order series

and he is not a young man

he has it all

he didn't really need the Oval Office

and why die trying?

IMO, anyone who runs for POTUS is a bit bonkers.

724 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:02:48pm

re: #719 FurryOldGuyJeans

For too many the only fair fight in politics is the one you win, any means necessary.

Unfortunately that's a trend that I don't see being reversed in the near future.

725 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:03:06pm

re: #675 lostlakehiker


China may be willing to move to wind, solar, nuclear, water, geothermal, etc. and is certainly interested in moving to less inefficient ways to burn coal. Nobody, [nobody accountable to a nation-sized public, that is] anywhere, is willing to reverse the industrial revolution. The way out of our problems is Up and out, not down and out.

One problem that China is having to deal with is pollutants. They have done little in the way of environmental protection and now have burning rivers and whatnot like we had in Cleveland in the late 60s and early 70s. That will probably be their short term focus because the population will not stand for it in the long run.

As an aside, US computer makers continue to make computers there in largely lights out / fully automated factories. So labor isn't the advantage that China sells in that case - getting around environmental regulation is a big part of what they sell. It costs us jobs and poisons the same planet.

726 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:03:22pm

re: #723 Wishing

IMO, anyone who runs for POTUS is a bit bonkers.

Anyone who seeks the job, I'm not sure I want to have the job.
If you know what I mean.

727 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:03:29pm
728 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:03:31pm

re: #550 Ojoe

The Nagasaki bomb converted about one gram of matter to energy.

(.0353 Oz)

A copper penny weighs about 3.5 grams.

Cool. Thanks.

729 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:03:42pm

re: #718 ploome hineni

Fred knew all too well the media would be in all out attack mode, no matter who was the Republican candidate. Especially since the FMSM had already anointed the Zero as Messiah and King.

730 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:03:53pm
731 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:03:57pm

re: #710 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Then there’s Obama’s reluctance to pledge to investigate and prosecute a wide array of misconduct in the Bush administration.

I repeat; they're insane.

Yes, initiating criminal investigations of political opponents... that will be wonderfully healthy for the Republic, Bob!

(By the way, Bobby, that door swings both ways. Also, we're the side with most of the guns, if y'all really want to push things.)

732 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:04:29pm

re: #717 Dustyvet

Al Qaeda bungles arms experiment

Achmed forgot to latch on the door to the rat cage...

Reading more, I suspect they were fooling around with a chemical dump somewhere and managed to;
a. mix the wrong chemicals together
b. exposed chemicals to the air that LOVE oxygen and nitrogen violently
c. took the brown acid

733 itellu3times  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:04:39pm

Lakers!

734 Wishing  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:04:46pm

re: #726 jcm

Anyone who seeks the job, I'm not sure I want to have the job.
If you know what I mean.

Zackly: whoever gets elected starts out with serious life-long mental illness on their plate.
Who would want to elect that kinda nutcase?
Oh...wait...

735 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:05:19pm

re: #671 Hard Right
"No, the MSM got together in lock step and there was little McCain could do."
Without belittling in any way the enormous contribution the MSM made to Obama's election, I would point out to you that McCain lost this election (assuming a Republican could have won in the first place) when he agreed to accept Public Financing and the Great Obama (very heavy sarcasm there) reneged on his pledge to accept Public Financing and wound up outspending McCain by more than 7 to 1.
For cryin out loud, he had a half hour infomercial during prime time!
And although it IS wishful thinking on my part, I sure would like to know where he got all of that money. Seriously.

736 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:05:54pm

re: #729 FurryOldGuyJeans

Fred knew all too well the media would be in all out attack mode, no matter who was the Republican candidate. Especially since the FMSM had already anointed the Zero as Messiah and King.

IMHO the MSM wanted McCain to run because they felt he would be the easiest to beat. That's why he was their darling throughout the primaries. Too bad he didn't realize they would turn on him the minute he was nominated.

737 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:06:17pm

re: #727 buzzsawmonkey

Superb.


they kinda remind me of you buzz!

738 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:06:22pm

re: #725 karmic_inquisitor

One problem that China is having to deal with is pollutants. They have done little in the way of environmental protection and now have burning rivers and whatnot like we had in Cleveland in the late 60s and early 70s. That will probably be their short term focus because the population will not stand for it in the long run.

As an aside, US computer makers continue to make computers there in largely lights out / fully automated factories. So labor isn't the advantage that China sells in that case - getting around environmental regulation is a big part of what they sell. It costs us jobs and poisons the same planet.

My company is closing a 20 year old silicon wafer fabrication plant, too old and hard to keep up. It produced 50,000 6" wafers a month with 1000 people. Another company is open a new plant nearby, automated will produce 150,000 12" wafers a month with about 100 people.

739 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:06:47pm
740 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:07:21pm

re: #724 CIA Reject

Unfortunately that's a trend that I don't see being reversed in the near future.

Its been that way since nearly the beginning of the Republic. Political crap is nothing new, the sham of impartiality the FMSM tries to foster is, though. Partisan press was the norm for most of the history of the US, the very idea that some news source could be without bias was laughable and a non sequitar.

741 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:07:35pm

re: #713 CIA Reject

If you find yourself in a fair fight you have screwed up...

Agreed. The "the guy from Chicago" was me, actually. I said that in anticipation of objections, but your fixing of the line did improve it.

742 Timbre  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:07:50pm

re: #711 buzzsawmonkey

So was I--until he supposedly got off his ass and started his pretend campaign.

His entire (brief) campaign had the air of Thompson stumbling drunkenly out of a rather boozy wedding into the hallway of a second-string country club, and looking around in befuddlement for the bar before lumbering off to the washroom.

And I say this with no pleasure.

Yep--if one seeks the Presidency, one must come across as something notable. Other than a notable idiot like Frankenmine--"Mine, mine--all the double-counted ballots are mine. And the missing ones are yours...but they don't count because they are missing. I'm Senator, NOW!"

/

743 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:07:59pm

re: #740 FurryOldGuyJeans

Its been that way since nearly the beginning of the Republic. Political crap is nothing new, the sham of impartiality the FMSM tries to foster is, though. Partisan press was the norm for most of the history of the US, the very idea that some news source could be without bias was laughable and a non sequitar.

Yup!

744 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:08:44pm

re: #738 jcm

My company is closing a 20 year old silicon wafer fabrication plant, too old and hard to keep up. It produced 50,000 6" wafers a month with 1000 people. Another company is open a new plant nearby, automated will produce 150,000 12" wafers a month with about 100 people.

Mmmm... wafers.

745 Racer X  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:09:07pm

Cleveland 88
L.A. 105

Howzat Laker haters?

Yeah baby!

746 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:09:42pm

re: #740 FurryOldGuyJeans

Its been that way since nearly the beginning of the Republic. Political crap is nothing new, the sham of impartiality the FMSM tries to foster is, though. Partisan press was the norm for most of the history of the US, the very idea that some news source could be without bias was laughable and a non sequitar.

This is why I have taken to calling the media the Left-Wing Media. They have embraced the left to an extent that even THEY can't deny it any longer so let's make them CHOKE on it!

747 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:10:09pm
748 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:10:12pm

re: #744 Occasional Reader

Mmmm... wafers.

Loss of jobs...D'oh!

749 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:10:20pm

re: #741 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. The "the guy from Chicago" was me, actually. I said that in anticipation of objections, but your fixing of the line did improve it.

Oh, I didn't realize you're from Chicago- it does work both ways though...

750 sngnsgt  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:10:27pm

OT:

www.drudge.com...] target="_blank">Drudge Retort has Bush countdown clock.

751 Dustyvet  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:11:16pm

To the bitter end: Bush-haters throw shoes at effigy in D.C.


Not sure I can handle 4 years of this bullshit...

752 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:11:34pm

re: #750 sngnsgt

OT:

Drudge Retort has Bush countdown clock.

Fuck that asshole.

753 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:12:07pm

re: #747 ploome hineni

besides the press

Nobama outspent the GOP by a huge margin, and NObama was a natural in front of the camera..he won the price at the American Idol show

you would think if some political party spends 150 millions of dollars to get their candidate elected, someone would get the candidate a speech/performance coach?

Dubya, 8 yrs in office, and could no one tell him/convince him how he damaged his presidency and the country because he was so pathetically inept at public speaking?

that alone convinced so many he was stupid

Key Lesson of GWB presidency: "To ensure yourself, you've to provide communication constantly."

Tell Her About It - Billy Joel

754 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:12:33pm

re: #673 Killian Bundy Hmm - I wonder. Did the intelligence official dismiss that claim made by The Sun because it was wrong or because he wanted people (especially Al-Q) to think we thought the story was wrong?

755 Dustyvet  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:12:40pm

re: #750 sngnsgt

OT:

Drudge Retort has Bush countdown clock.

I got one too..:)

And it's not Bush...


[Link: obamaclock.org...]

756 Steve  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:12:48pm

re: #744 Occasional Reader

Mmmm... wafers.

I am also working in the wafer field in SW Washington.

757 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:13:06pm
758 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:13:10pm

re: #751 Dustyvet

To the bitter end: Bush-haters throw shoes at effigy in D.C.

Not sure I can handle 4 years of this bullshit...

"My advice to you is to start drinking heavily"

759 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:14:01pm

re: #571 swamprat

politics of science;
Schrodinger's Castro
he is dead until proven alive, but if alive, he is as good as dead because he is no longer in power

Schrodinger's Bin Laden
same

Schrodinger's Mookie al Sadr
don't know if this persian shoe has made a public appearance within the last year.

I shall now propose my own theory of invisible enemies of America
The presence or lack of presence of an Enemy Of America is in direct proportion to the attention of a American president named Bush
The lack of visibility of Enemies of America is a result of

THE BUSH EFFECT

THE BUSH EFFECT can be seen on those entities mentioned but also on south Korean and African dictators

Watch as THE BUSH EFFECT wanes immediately after Tuesday 01-19-09. The result may be startling!

Have you ever seen the article on quantum baseball (anyone here read JIR)?

760 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:14:28pm
761 Timbre  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:14:43pm

Good night to all LGFers! Have to nod off to be fresh for the Bush homecoming here in Midland in about 13 hours. For those of you stuck with the opening act on the Potomac, good luck and bite the upper lip...it'll all be over in 4 years!

762 swamprat  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:15:02pm

re: #736 CIA Reject

MSM bailout ain't comin.
The honeymoon is over.
Constitutional FREE PRESS.
Bailout would be a conflict. They have been pissing into their messkit, now they have to eat out of it. What a shame they were unable to think more than two moves ahead.

I shall now weep a sad bitter tear for the media:OK, all done.

763 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:15:14pm

re: #738 jcm

My company is closing a 20 year old silicon wafer fabrication plant, too old and hard to keep up. It produced 50,000 6" wafers a month with 1000 people. Another company is open a new plant nearby, automated will produce 150,000 12" wafers a month with about 100 people.

A friend of mine was an engineer for a cell phone manufacturer who sent him to China to check on a plant they had just started there. It was to be fully automated. So he gets there as they are digging the foundation and finds they are digging it by hand.

Unreal.

764 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:15:55pm

re: #750 sngnsgt

OT:

Drudge Retort has Bush countdown clock.

Let's see if that no talent hack does that for obama. His site is little more than the National Enquirer of the internet.

765 freetoken  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:16:04pm

re: #683 karmic_inquisitor

I disagree that the hockey-stick (as it has been called) was intended (by the original scientists) to imply "runaway" in the sense that scientists use the term "runaway" nowadays. The popular press might use the term "runaway" for all sorts of things, such as inflation, where scientists and engineers might not.

The reason scientists (and this applies to the evolution discussion as much as to AGW or anything else) are often boring is because of the insistence on details and language.

This is one of those cases... one man's "runaway" might just be another person's "change"!

The hockey-stick diagrams, and indeed the IPCC documents, do not imply a runaway climate change. What is the consensus is that if mankind doubles the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere by 2100 that the resultant changes on the Earth would include the Earth's surface average (over the entire globe, over a long time span) temperature would rise a little over 2C compared to the later 20th century. In my book that is not "runaway".

One doesn't have to look at the Earth as a whole though, and there might be certain subsystems of the Earth that might have their own little "runaway" problems.

The idea that methane escaping due to melting permafrost or deep sea methane melting ... are interesting ideas, but of all the climate related sites I visit (by scientists, not the political ones) there is no conclusion reached.

That is why I consider many of the recent posts (links) added here (often mocking AGW as real science) to be more red herrings than anything else...

There is a difference (if one bothers to look) between what really is a scientific consensus (that man is perturbing the Earth's climate) versus popular press/blogs often histrionic attributions of supposed claims.

Finally, I really don't see where the protesting against AGW among the Lizards really helps their cause. It is one thing to dislike a politician (like Al Gore), but another to dismiss and entire area of science... especially on a blog that self determines itself to be a leading advocate of Western Civilization versus forces in the world that are more destructive and backwards in nature.

766 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:16:33pm

re: #736 CIA Reject

IMHO the MSM wanted McCain to run because they felt he would be the easiest to beat. That's why he was their darling throughout the primaries. Too bad he didn't realize they would turn on him the minute he was nominated.

Every time someone says that I point them to this article online from The Stranger (a local Seattle Leftist rag) from the Feb 24 – Mar 1, 2000 issue:

VOTE FOR BUSH: You, Too, Can Be Part of the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy

767 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:16:51pm

re: #580 Iron Fist

Oh shit! We're all fucked!

I've got to try and sleep tonight. I'd fucking kill for a liter of whiskey right now. Ah, well...

Got one in the garage. Jack Daniels single barrel (unopened).

768 sngnsgt  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:17:30pm

re: #755 Dustyvet

I got one too..:)

And it's not Bush...

[Link: obamaclock.org...]

Thanks for that... /adds short cut to desktop

769 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:17:45pm

re: #735 realwest

"No, the MSM got together in lock step and there was little McCain could do."
Without belittling in any way the enormous contribution the MSM made to Obama's election, I would point out to you that McCain lost this election (assuming a Republican could have won in the first place) when he agreed to accept Public Financing and the Great Obama (very heavy sarcasm there) reneged on his pledge to accept Public Financing and wound up outspending McCain by more than 7 to 1.
For cryin out loud, he had a half hour infomercial during prime time!
And although it IS wishful thinking on my part, I sure would like to know where he got all of that money. Seriously.

I agree McCain made it a point to shoot himself in the foot at every turn. That is why the left wanted him to be the candidate.

770 swamprat  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:18:11pm

re: #759 unakite

No but i subscribed to popular mechanics and popular science.(waste of time and money)

771 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:18:26pm

re: #763 karmic_inquisitor

A friend of mine was an engineer for a cell phone manufacturer who sent him to China to check on a plant they had just started there. It was to be fully automated. So he gets there as they are digging the foundation and finds they are digging it by hand.

Unreal.

We sell a cheap prototyping programming. It's not production quality. We found customers in China using it. Literally hundreds of women at tables hand programming the product with them. When electronics fail a lot of the time it can be traced back to this kind of thing in China, use of manual, error ridden labor.

772 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:18:30pm

re: #675 lostlakehiker
"China seems to believe it too. She's had terrible environmental problems recently. Some of that is their own local fault, but they think they see the fingerprints of global warming on the rest." Uh, do y'all have a link for that statement? I've seen photos of cities in China that were SO polluted that after you got about 350 feet above the ground, the air took on a darker and darker brown tone - to the point where you couldn't see the tops of skyscrappers that were oh, 50-60 stories high.
And given the current limitations of all alternative fuels - other than nuclear - I find it fascinating that China would go for solar, wind and geothermal power, especially now when they are in a recession.

773 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:18:53pm

re: #756 Steve

I am also working in the wafer field in SW Washington.

How do you pick those wafers? Do you have to use stoop-labor?

775 Hard Right  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:19:22pm

re: #765 freetoken

I disagree that the hockey-stick (as it has been called) was intended (by the original scientists) to imply "runaway" in the sense that scientists use the term "runaway" nowadays. The popular press might use the term "runaway" for all sorts of things, such as inflation, where scientists and engineers might not.

The reason scientists (and this applies to the evolution discussion as much as to AGW or anything else) are often boring is because of the insistence on details and language.

This is one of those cases... one man's "runaway" might just be another person's "change"!

The hockey-stick diagrams, and indeed the IPCC documents, do not imply a runaway climate change. What is the consensus is that if mankind doubles the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere by 2100 that the resultant changes on the Earth would include the Earth's surface average (over the entire globe, over a long time span) temperature would rise a little over 2C compared to the later 20th century. In my book that is not "runaway".

One doesn't have to look at the Earth as a whole though, and there might be certain subsystems of the Earth that might have their own little "runaway" problems.

The idea that methane escaping due to melting permafrost or deep sea methane melting ... are interesting ideas, but of all the climate related sites I visit (by scientists, not the political ones) there is no conclusion reached.

That is why I consider many of the recent posts (links) added here (often mocking AGW as real science) to be more red herrings than anything else...

There is a difference (if one bothers to look) between what really is a scientific consensus (that man is perturbing the Earth's climate) versus popular press/blogs often histrionic attributions of supposed claims.

Finally, I really don't see where the protesting against AGW among the Lizards really helps their cause. It is one thing to dislike a politician (like Al Gore), but another to dismiss and entire area of science... especially on a blog that self determines itself to be a leading advocate of Western Civilization versus forces in the world that are more destructive and backwards in nature.

Ummm, you know the hockey stick has been proven to be BS, right? Apparently not.

776 Racer X  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:19:59pm

Good job, Sir.

Air Force One Pilot Calls It Quits

Try to guess how many flights President Bush has flown on Air Force One since taking office.

It’s 1,675 - more than 200 flights in each of the last eight years.

And on nearly all of those flights, Col. Mark Tillman, 51, was at the controls of Air Force One.

But now, he’s got just one mission left for George W. Bush - to fly him home to Texas on Tuesday as the former president. The aircraft will be the familiar 747-400 that routinely serves as Air Force One, but that won’t be its radio call-sign on Tuesday afternoon, since Mr. Bush will be out of office. The flight home is a military courtesy to the former commander-in-chief.

“It’ll end the president’s term in office and it’ll also end my tenure at Air Force One,” said Tillman in a radio interview with CBS News.

777 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:20:06pm

re: #762 swamprat

MSM bailout ain't comin.
The honeymoon is over.
Constitutional FREE PRESS.
Bailout would be a conflict. They have been pissing into their messkit, now they have to eat out of it. What a shame they were unable to think more than two moves ahead.

I shall now weep a sad bitter tear for the media:OK, all done.

The Constitutional Free Press is a myth. The FMSM will be bailed out since they are so in the tank for Our Messiah-King.

778 Wishing  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:21:08pm

Sleep well, lizards!
We will survive.

779 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:21:10pm

re: #751 Dustyvet

To the bitter end: Bush-haters throw shoes at effigy in D.C.


Not sure I can handle 4 years of this bullshit...

Bookmark this.

780 Dustyvet  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:22:13pm

re: #779 MandyManners

Bookmark this.

TA Mandy, I have it...:)

781 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:22:29pm

re: #771 jcm

We sell a cheap prototyping programming. It's not production quality. We found customers in China using it. Literally hundreds of women at tables hand programming the product with them. When electronics fail a lot of the time it can be traced back to this kind of thing in China, use of manual, error ridden labor.

Years ago I worked on a USAF project to upgrade the radar systems in Chinese MiG 21 fighters (long story). You should have seen the workmanship on these things. Parts that fit smoothly together on US aircraft were wedged in with 2x4's and mallets.

Truly scary...

782 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:22:46pm

re: #776 Racer X

The two planes cost over $500,000,000.00.

783 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:23:44pm

re: #594 karmic_inquisitor

My understanding was you have two basic effects that contribute to the "cascade" - luminosity and carbon feedbacks. Luminosity being from less light reflected back into space due to less snow / ice coverage and less cloud cover. The carbon feedback comes from things like warmed oceans and soil freeing sequestered CO2. I have heard other claims that other greenhouse gases get somehow amplified, but those seemed dubious to me and I have never thought them part of carbon forcing.

So please correct my explanation.

One scenario that has been discussed is that methane frozen on the ocean floor under the north pacific would escape to gas phase if the ocean warmed enough. That would release enough methane to cause more warming, if it did happen, and it could go pretty fast once it got going.

Where the tipping point is for this, whether there's any real chance of hitting it, how much temps would rise if it happened, and how long the methane would stick around, I don't know.

784 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:25:36pm
785 Dustyvet  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:26:08pm

Mrs. Dr. Joe Biden: My Husband Could Have Settled for the Secretary of State Job, But He's Too Good for That


Dog Catcher maybe?

786 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:26:36pm

re: #781 CIA Reject

Years ago I worked on a USAF project to upgrade the radar systems in Chinese MiG 21 fighters (long story)

Please tell me these were Chinese MiG-21s that were not, at that point, in the possession of the (red) Chinese. Please please please tell me that.

787 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:26:51pm

re: #783 lostlakehiker

Is it a FACT that these areas of frozen methane exist? If so what are the estimations of volume?

788 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:27:01pm

re: #780 Dustyvet

I got it here. It'd make a neat avatar if it could keep on ticking.

789 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:27:45pm

re: #630 Pietr
HEY Pietr - thanks to the ever so brilliant ploome, I just sent you and e-mail. If you get it soon and can respond soon, I'd appreciate it as it is now snowing out there - changed over from freezing rain - and I'd love to get a response before we lose power (IF we lose power!).
Thanks!

790 Dustyvet  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:27:50pm

re: #788 MandyManners

I got it here. It'd make a neat avatar if it could keep on ticking.

It would...

791 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:28:02pm

re: #784 ploome hineni

Tillman doesn;t want to fly in NObamas' filthy smelly plane

remember?

The Air Force will take good care of the planes.

792 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:28:31pm

re: #786 Occasional Reader

Please tell me these were Chinese MiG-21s that were not, at that point, in the possession of the (red) Chinese. Please please please tell me that.

They must have been. Taiwan has never used MIG-21s.

793 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:28:50pm

re: #790 Dustyvet

It would...

Now, that is worth considering.

794 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:28:57pm

re: #786 Occasional Reader

Please tell me these were Chinese MiG-21s that were not, at that point, in the possession of the (red) Chinese. Please please please tell me that.

This...

795 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:28:59pm
796 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:29:40pm

re: #792 Dark_Falcon

They must have been. Taiwan has never used MIG-21s.

We had a few... and the Indian Air Force did.

797 Dustyvet  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:29:42pm

re: #793 MandyManners

Now, that is worth considering.

I need to find the resident puter person in my building and see what he can do...

798 Racer X  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:29:43pm

re: #782 MandyManners

The two planes cost over $500,000,000.00.


Interesting.

Here is a great wallpaper.

The current presidential fleet consists of two specifically-configured Boeing 747-200B series aircraft – tail numbers 28000 and 29000 – with Air Force designation VC-25A. When the President is aboard either craft, or any other Air Force aircraft, the radio call sign is "Air Force One."

While on the aircraft, the President and staff have access to a full range of services, including communications systems, secure and non-secure voice, fax and data communications, along with access to photocopying, printing, and word processing.

These aircraft are maintained and operated by the Presidential Airlift Group, part of Air Mobility Command's 89th Airlift Wing, based at Andrews Air Force Base, Suitland, Maryland. The VC-25A is capable of flying half way around the world without refueling and can accommodate more than 70 passengers.

799 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:30:15pm

re: #792 Dark_Falcon

They must have been. Taiwan has never used MIG-21s.

I know, I was thinking/hoping they were either in OUR possession for "red team" wargaming, or in Taiwan's (or shared) for the same purpose.

I just hope we haven't been directly helping commie China upgrade their fighter radar (even on an outdated model like the MiG-21).

800 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:31:10pm

re: #679 ploome hineni
D'oh - thanks a lot ploome! (walks away feeling really stupid!)!
Did it and hope it gets to Pietr!

801 mattm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:31:16pm

The media orgy will be over in 11 hours, followed by a brief pause while they fly back to HQ.

802 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:31:27pm

re: #610 FurryOldGuyJeans

My SiL and niece, who are both teachers (and great ones I have to add on pain of no more visits and dinners at their house), are even more vehement about the crap that happens in the public school system than you are. They pull NO punches about the political shenanigans of the Teachers Union.

I have two sons, 11 and 8. The 11-year-old just (last fall) went from elem (5th grade) to middle school (6th grade). He was supposed to go to middle school at a school right around the corner from us (our district). I play softball (when it's warm) with a first-grade teacher (good teacher) at the elementary school that my kids go to. He told me that whatever we do, don't let the older son go to that school. We were able to get him in an out-of-district school, and even the teachers know which schools are good and bad.

803 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:31:29pm

re: #765 freetoken

Well I appreciate the tone and length of your post.

My problems with AGW, admittedly, have been around the politics. The fact is that the science and the politics have been comingled. We have a guy like James Hansen setting a new "final, last chance, we are dead if you don't act" deadline for Obama to reverse climate change. And the deadline just happens to be 4 years from now. We also have a great deal of follow on claims with many being, quite frankly, absurd.

And take Mann's "hockey stick" - it does not reflect a 2° per century rate. It showed an advance that was almost vertical ( a projected half degree rise in 2 years ergo the hockey stick).

Don't climate scientists resent the circus atmosphere that Hansen et al have ushered in, or do they blame skeptics for it?

804 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:31:36pm
805 Alberta Oil Peon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:31:59pm

re: #592 FurryOldGuyJeans

I still think half an apple is better than none in this case. At least they got some recognition about the injustice done to them.

Has anyone ever gotten a conviction reversed after a presidential pardon?

806 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:32:15pm
807 freetoken  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:32:49pm

re: #787 jcw46

Is it a FACT that these areas of frozen methane exist? If so what are the estimations of volume?

Methane clathrates have been proposed as a possible solution to limited natural gas for nations with not enough traditional natural gas sources.

No one has come up with an economically viable way of of harvesting them.

808 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:33:38pm

re: #801 mattm

The media orgy will be over in 11 hours, followed by a brief pause while they fly back to HQ.

The orgy will be on-going for the next 4 years, just from different locations and new participants as the old ones drop from fellatial exhaustion.

809 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:33:44pm

re: #806 buzzsawmonkey

Sic semper Tyrannousaurs!

--John Wilkes Molerat

[Smiles]

810 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:33:45pm

re: #792 Dark_Falcon

They must have been. Taiwan has never used MIG-21s.

Well no, I believe the Air Force over the years has acquired some from defecting pilots and from previous allies of the ex-USSR.

(god you don't know how that feels for someone like me who grew up with the USSR as the biggest threat/bogeyman on the planet to know that THEY WENT INTO THE TOILET OF HISTORY. Yeah, I know Russia is still Russia but you notice they can't do as much as they used to because they don't have that aura anymore.)

811 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:34:02pm

re: #806 buzzsawmonkey

Sic semper Tyrannousaurs!

--John Wilkes Molerat

"Semper"? Fie!

--Reply of Leathernexicus Rex

812 Dustyvet  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:34:14pm

re: #795 ploome hineni

...this is what is being published in some MSM newspaper

[Link: www.michaelbackman.com...]

More Propaganda from a left wing hack...nothing more...Had this been 1930's Germany, the twit would have been writing for the Nazi's

813 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:34:48pm

re: #810 jcw46

I believe the Air Force over the years has acquired some from defecting pilots

Defecating pilots?! Eww! Those must have smelled worse than Obama's campaign plane!

814 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:35:20pm

re: #805 Alberta Oil Peon

Has anyone ever gotten a conviction reversed after a presidential pardon?

The problem is that getting a pardon from Bush was a dead issue. A commutation of sentence is better than no pardon.

815 [deleted]  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:36:32pm
816 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:36:34pm

re: #810 jcw46

Well no, I believe the Air Force over the years has acquired some from defecting pilots and from previous allies of the ex-USSR.

(god you don't know how that feels for someone like me who grew up with the USSR as the biggest threat/bogeyman on the planet to know that THEY WENT INTO THE TOILET OF HISTORY. Yeah, I know Russia is still Russia but you notice they can't do as much as they used to because they don't have that aura anymore.)


Video of the evals...

817 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:37:23pm

re: #618 Alberta Oil Peon

And then a plump geologist came along, and levered the top off the can by striking it obliquely against a sharp rock. And as the other three marveled at his cleverness, he gobbled down all the food, because, you know staying plump is hard work.

/plump geologist

I opened a beer off the the bent fender of a car one (ore (sic) more) times. Hate to admit that I was responsible for bending the fender, but hey, necessity is the mother of invention (or at least opening a beer). Geologists seem to be pretty resourceful.

818 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:38:24pm

re: #805 Alberta Oil Peon

Has anyone ever gotten a conviction reversed after a presidential pardon?

They weren't pardoned, their sentences were commuted.
A pardon is no conviction therefore the point is moot. commuted is like time served and the conviction remains. This gives them their freedom while they pursue reversal.

819 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:38:54pm

re: #736 CIA Reject
And too bad McCain didn't realize that once the MSM turned on him, he was persona non grata to them FOREVER.
He didn't get ANYTHING out of that "election race" and lost a great deal.

820 Occasional Reader  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:39:30pm

Good night.

Prepare ye for the Coming of The One.

821 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:40:06pm

Good night everybody - and G*d help us all!re: #786 Occasional Reader

Please tell me these were Chinese MiG-21s that were not, at that point, in the possession of the (red) Chinese. Please please please tell me that.

Nope- these were actual aircraft of the Peoples' Liberation Air Force being modified under a FMS contract.

It was the late '80s and somebody at the Pentagon thought that upgrading Chinese interceptors from 1960's era radar to 1970's era radar would put extra pressure on the Soviets. Whether or not it would have worked we'll never know because Tienanmen Square happened about halfway through the project and the whole thing was canceled.

822 MandyManners  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:40:38pm

Nighty-night!

823 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:41:21pm

re: #807 freetoken
Thanks.

Holy crap! hey let's tap them suckers for electric generation!

824 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:42:00pm

re: #625 jcm

Plump geologist are good BBQed I hear.
/ ;-)

This isn't devolving into cannibalism, is it?
/

825 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:42:01pm

re: #740 FurryOldGuyJeans
"Partisan press was the norm for most of the history of the US," yes, but for the most part there was partisan press for each candidate. This time around there was NO MSM outlet that was partisan for McCain.
NONE.

826 freetoken  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:42:03pm

re: #803 karmic_inquisitor

Well, in a democracy like ours one can expect politicians to want to find their own slice of the electorate pie... and that sometimes forces policies and movements into political molds that they otherwise might not fit so well.

As for Dr. Hansen, I often post his website link here so that people can read what he actually says, rather than what some people might want to ascribe to him. Politics was thrust upon him, IMO, years ago when he was called to testify before the Senate. In his latter years he has become a bit more of an activist, but I personally don't see that as the greatest sin one could commit. If he believes in his own research then it would behoove him to announce it to the world. I've never met the man myself, but seeing him on video and reading his papers I've concluded that he doesn't deserve the crap that is thrown at him by some of his detractors. In that regard he and GWB have much in common.

827 Alberta Oil Peon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:43:30pm

re: #652 swamprat

I was unable to see these; could you copy and paste 2 or 3 quotes so I do a search?

Here you go: "The origin of life standard was changed from "analyze multiple, prominent scientific hypotheses for the origin of life by abiotic chemical processes" to "discuss scientific hypotheses for the origin of life by abiotic chemical processes in an aqueous environment through complex geochemical cycles." "

Referring to a slight change in wording made in a vain effort to placate the two creationists.

828 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:43:40pm

re: #815 ploome hineni

how can ANY legitimate newspaper publish this shit? This piece isnot the product of one man, 4-10 people saw it and thought it should be published

they thought it was appropriate to publish

This is what the partisan press used to publish without any shame. The FMSM tries to wear the veil of impartiality to cover up one fugly face of bias.

829 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:43:45pm

re: #752 Occasional Reader
Elegantly and correctly said, sir!

830 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:45:21pm

OK now I really have to say good night-

Everybody assume crash positions and have a great evening!

831 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:45:23pm

re: #825 realwest

"Partisan press was the norm for most of the history of the US," yes, but for the most part there was partisan press for each candidate. This time around there was NO MSM outlet that was partisan for McCain.
NONE.

That is because the FMSM is trying to wear a g-string of impartiality and advertising it as a muu-muu.

832 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:48:17pm

re: #657 lostlakehiker

I get almost exactly 3 grams. Use kilotons to joulesBut yes, e=mc^2 is a potent multiplier.

c^2 is the potent multiplier.

833 Wendya  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:48:56pm

re: #826 freetoken

I've never met the man myself, but seeing him on video and reading his papers I've concluded that he doesn't deserve the crap that is thrown at him by some of his detractors. In that regard he and GWB have much in common.

After reading what he has written, he deserved a thousand times more crap thrown at him than he's received.

The guy is a complete nutburger.

834 lostlakehiker  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:49:29pm

re: #615 Spare O'Lake

No.

835 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:49:58pm

re: #769 Hard Right
Yes, but a legitimate MSM or at least legitimate parts of the MSM would have been screaming bloody murder if they hadn't ALL been in the tank for Obama.
What do you think would have happened if, say ABC and the WaPo had said "Why did Senator Obama renege on his pledge to take Public Funding - the only candidate OF EITHER PARTY to do so in over 20 years.
Where is Senator Obama getting all this money?"
McCain probably would have lost, but it probably would also have made some people - perhaps a considerable amount of people wonder about Obama's basic integrity.

836 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:51:47pm

re: #835 realwest

Yes, but a legitimate MSM or at least legitimate parts of the MSM would have been screaming bloody murder if they hadn't ALL been in the tank for Obama.
What do you think would have happened if, say ABC and the WaPo had said "Why did Senator Obama renege on his pledge to take Public Funding - the only candidate OF EITHER PARTY to do so in over 20 years.
Where is Senator Obama getting all this money?"
McCain probably would have lost, but it probably would also have made some people - perhaps a considerable amount of people wonder about Obama's basic integrity.

Agreed. Signing off now. Have to work tomorrow.

837 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:53:22pm

Interesting video...
Mig 21 vs F 4 Fantom Russian Army [sic]

I recognized the Air Force pilot and Naval Aviator doing the hand flying early in the video.

838 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:54:01pm

re: #836 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. Signing off now. Have to work tomorrow.

Somebody has to keep government fatted with taxes.

839 Dustyvet  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:57:38pm

Debate over, it's freezing

(David Harsanyi, Denver Post) The carbon footprint of Barack Obama's inauguration could exceed 575million pounds of CO2 ...

840 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:59:03pm

re: #839 Dustyvet

Debate over, it's freezing

(David Harsanyi, Denver Post) The carbon footprint of Barack Obama's inauguration could exceed 575million pounds of CO2 ...

Where does a 575 million pound gorilla sit?

841 Dustyvet  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:59:38pm

re: #840 jcm

Where does a 575 million pound gorilla sit?

Umm anywhere it wants to...:)

842 Erik The Red  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 10:59:46pm

re: #840 jcm

Where does a 575 million pound gorilla sit?

Anywhere it damn well wants to/

843 Erik The Red  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:00:22pm

re: #841 Dustyvet

Umm anywhere it wants to...:)

Hey Dv 8 damn seconds lol.

844 sngnsgt  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:00:35pm

re: #840 jcm

Where does a 575 million pound gorilla sit?

Umm, I don't know where Michael Moore will be sitting.

845 Killian Bundy  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:00:53pm
Dow Jones -79.00

Well, the futures were down ~120.

/still, it appears that the markets don't particularly like the smell of what Obama is cooking

846 Dustyvet  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:00:56pm

re: #843 Erik The Red

Hey Dv 8 damn seconds lol.

I was drinking a soda...:)

847 stevieray  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:01:31pm

re: #840 jcm

Where does a 575 million pound gorilla sit?


On top of our constitution.

848 zulubaby  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:01:49pm

Britain's Surrender

In fact, the British government has effectively taken the view that Israel should not be allowed to defend itself by military means against the Hamas rockets that ministers have taken care to condemn.

From the second day of the war, Foreign Secretary David Miliband was calling for an immediate cease-fire by both sides. Since Hamas would take no notice, this in practice amounted to pressure upon Israel to stop defending itself.

It was Britain which took the lead in framing the United Nations resolution calling upon Israel to withdraw all its forces from Gaza while making no mention whatever of Hamas. And it was Britain which also drew a disquieting moral equivalence between Hamas terrorism and Israeli self-defense.

Some things never change.

849 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:02:01pm

re: #831 FurryOldGuyJeans
"That is because the FMSM is trying to wear a g-string of impartiality and advertising it as a muu-muu."
Uh, what? The fact is still true that NOT ONE MSM OUTLET even tried to be partisan for McCain and that IS historically outside the Norm.

850 swamprat  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:02:10pm

re: #827 Alberta Oil Peon

They are still hypotheses. No controversy. These guys are spoiling for a fight.

851 Erik The Red  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:03:57pm

re: #848 zulubaby

Morning zulubaby. Are you still in Jhb? or have you returned Stateside?

852 swamprat  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:04:02pm

night all

853 Erik The Red  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:04:33pm

re: #852 swamprat

night all

Night sr.

854 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:05:26pm

Watching the late news.

A lot of people have a lot EMOTIONALLY invested in BHO.

When that crashes and burns a lot of people are gonna be really, really pissed off.

BHO. Almost certainly a one termer. No way he can meet the expectations. No way.

855 CIA Reject  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:05:51pm

re: #792 Dark_Falcon

re: #796 jcm

Technically they were J-8's, but because not a lot of people know what those are we referred to them as MiG-21's because that is the basic airframe from which they evolved.

Which puts us back on topic- sort of.

And now I really must go so I can get a front place in the line at the liquor store to get my ration of Victory Gin.

856 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:06:03pm

re: #840 jcm

Where does a 575 million pound gorilla sit?

In a large hole in the ground wherever the hell it wants to sit.

857 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:06:55pm

re: #701 FurryOldGuyJeans

The main problem when it comes to yield of a fission/fusion device is the expanding shock front from the release of energy dispersing the material past its critical mass size, thus ending the self-sustaining on-going reaction.

Fusion is especially problematical in that to start a fusion reaction best uses the energy of a fission reaction, yet must be quick enough to overcome the dispersal of the material caused by the fission reaction required to undergo fusion.

I like this stuff, but not my area of expertise. is this correct (sort of)? In essence, the shock wave blows the whole thing apart. You need enough material (critical mass) to initiate and sustain the reaction, but if you have too much, the rest goes kablooey (not technical term). Only a fraction of the material actually undergoes fission.

858 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:07:13pm

re: #854 jcm

Watching the late news.

A lot of people have a lot EMOTIONALLY invested in BHO.

When that crashes and burns a lot of people are gonna be really, really pissed off.

BHO. Almost certainly a one termer. No way he can meet the expectations. No way.

I hope you are right, but a lot of people said the same thing about WJC, and we all know the results of THAT prediction.

859 jcm  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:08:17pm

re: #858 FurryOldGuyJeans

I hope you are right, but a lot of people said the same thing about WJC, and we all know the results of THAT prediction.

Yeah, I know. Some young moonbat on the tube...
"I've never felt so patriotic!"

860 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:08:38pm

re: #848 zulubaby
Hey zulubaby! "Some things never change." That is regrettfully true.
How are you doing zulubaby? And do you have an opinon of why, with 94% Public Support in Israel for Cast Lead, Olmert cut it short?

861 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:11:28pm

Hello? Anyone still out here?!

862 Kragar  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:11:51pm

re: #861 realwest

Hello? Anyone still out here?!

Nope

863 jcw46  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:12:05pm

re: #836 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. Signing off now. Have to work tomorrow.

Work? After today you won't HAVE to work.
The SUN will SHINE and all the CLOUDS will have SILVER LININGS with PINK BOWS and WINGED UNICORNS will fly amongst them.

The OCEANS threatening our shores will RECEDE. The POLAR BEARS will be saved from EXTINCTION. The JEWS and the ARABS will fina... wha? what did you say? Hamass? Hamas? Hamas has fired rockets into Jewish neighborhoods killing children and women? NONONONONO this cannot be He is the ONE. There can be none of this while HE is with us. What? Oh, you mean if you guys don't report it then no one has to know? Oh. Okay, let's do that.

Where was I ...

There will be PEACE throughout the WORLD and all will LOVE each other as THEMSELVES.

PRAISE BE TO THE ONE.

and to his minions of hell who have descended upon any who would shine the light of truth upon this world of fantasy concocted by some chicago car salesman politician ward heeler community organizer.

864 Dustyvet  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:12:17pm

re: #861 realwest

Hello? Anyone still out here?!

Over here mixing ham and lima beans...:)

865 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:12:27pm

Huh, I reckon no one wants to play anymore! Crap and with me probably having to miss LGF tomorrow too.

866 Erik The Red  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:12:54pm

re: #862 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Nope

Same here.

867 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:12:58pm

re: #862 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)Rats!
:)

868 Dustyvet  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:13:15pm

re: #865 realwest

Huh, I reckon no one wants to play anymore! Crap and with me probably having to miss LGF tomorrow too.

Tag your it...zooom

869 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:14:22pm

re: #864 Dustyvet
YUCK! I mean anyone still want to play with something not quite as lethal as Ham and Lima Beans?!
:)

870 Dustyvet  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:15:36pm

re: #869 realwest

YUCK! I mean anyone still want to play with something not quite as lethal as Ham and Lima Beans?!
:)

Digging in toy box, I got a parachute flair in here some place...

871 zulubaby  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:16:50pm

re: #860 realwest

Hey zulubaby! "Some things never change." That is regrettfully true.
How are you doing zulubaby? And do you have an opinon of why, with 94% Public Support in Israel for Cast Lead, Olmert cut it short?

Hello realwest, hope you're well!

No idea what Olmert is up to.

872 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:17:35pm

Well then I'm gonna go to sleep now too. It's been grand as usual - although somewhat ruder than usual, but nonetheless still grand.

Hope y'all have a GREAT EVENING/EARLY MORNING and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.

Good night, all.

873 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:18:11pm

re: #714 FurryOldGuyJeans

A millisecond is too long an interval to best catalog a fission or fusion device's reaction interval.

Nanosecond? Picosecond? Femptosecond?

874 NY Nana  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:18:39pm

Drive by post: I am so fed up, and so disgusted, and it is only now getting to fever pitch. We have been taken over by a dictatorship, and can blame no one but the blind, ignorant robots who voted for The One. We know what to expect, at least, but the brain washed mobs will wake up at some point...to this. We can only hope.

G'nite all. And yes, I am in a monstrous mood.

/How could you tell?

875 realwest  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:18:49pm

re: #871 zulubaby
Whoa - hi zulubaby! Are you in Israel or have you returned here for a while?!

876 zulubaby  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:19:25pm

re: #851 Erik The Red

Morning zulubaby. Are you still in Jhb? or have you returned Stateside?

Still under the African sky :-)

877 Erik The Red  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:19:56pm

re: #872 realwest

Night rw.

878 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:20:05pm

re: #857 unakite

I like this stuff, but not my area of expertise. is this correct (sort of)? In essence, the shock wave blows the whole thing apart. You need enough material (critical mass) to initiate and sustain the reaction, but if you have too much, the rest goes kablooey (not technical term). Only a fraction of the material actually undergoes fission.

Essentially correct, but when you get critical mass with fissionable material it goes kablooey. Just enough is too much, unless you actively inhibit the reaction by absorbing some of the neutrons released when you split the atoms. A nuclear reactor does that with control rods to maintain the reaction at enough of a rate for heat production without letting the reaction release enough energy to ignite all the material. A atomic device needs the uncontrolled reaction to produce the big boom.

The two bombs dropped on Japan each contained a different fissile material:

Hiroshima was a gun-type fission weapon using U-235 that achieved critical mass by slamming two chunks of material together.

Nagasaki was an implosion type fission weapon using Pu-239 (plutonium) that achieved critical mass by implosively squeezing the material like a wad of tinfoil.

879 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:20:49pm

re: #859 jcm

Yeah, I know. Some young moonbat on the tube...
"I've never felt so patriotic!"

That sounds so like 1992/3.

880 Erik The Red  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:21:04pm

re: #876 zulubaby

Still under the African sky :-)

If you don't mind me asking what are you doing here? Work wise.

881 FurryOldGuyJeans  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:22:40pm

re: #873 unakite

Nanosecond? Picosecond? Femptosecond?

The actual time intervals used are classified, but I do know nanoseconds are sometimes used as gross data points.

882 theheat  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:27:57pm

If Texans are dumb enough to support this, I say we give it back to Mexico. Ozzy pissing on the Alamo is the least of their problems.

Idiots.

883 Summer Seale  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:30:27pm

I'm pretty fed up with these Young Earth Creationists.

Everyone knows that the universe was created 28 years ago when I was born. God created everyone here, the entire earth, all the light and the stars in situ the moment I became aware.

Anyone else who believes differently has a whole lotta proving to do. Sorry.

884 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:31:43pm

re: #770 swamprat

No but i subscribed to popular mechanics and popular science.(waste of time and money)

JIR is the "Journal of irreproducible results." Don't know if it is still published, but it was a parody of scientific journals with humorous articles written in a scientific context. One article proved that time does actually go faster as you get older. anyway...

885 affenkopf  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:32:53pm

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

Galileo Galilei

886 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:39:47pm

re: #781 CIA Reject

Years ago I worked on a USAF project to upgrade the radar systems in Chinese MiG 21 fighters (long story). You should have seen the workmanship on these things. Parts that fit smoothly together on US aircraft were wedged in with 2x4's and mallets.

Truly scary...

I was never in the military, but my neighbor (for 14 years) is retired navy (also has a pool in his backyard, but OT). He used to work on electrical systems and used to do some consulting for other countries (after he retired). Particulars are different, but general gist is the same.

887 unakite  Mon, Jan 19, 2009 11:46:08pm

re: #807 freetoken

Methane clathrates have been proposed as a possible solution to limited natural gas for nations with not enough traditional natural gas sources.

No one has come up with an economically viable way of of harvesting them.

Heh. brings back memories. I had to do a paper on clathrate compounds for a class one time. But that was over 20 years ago. They do exist.

888 zulubaby  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 12:13:24am

re: #880 Erik The Red

If you don't mind me asking what are you doing here? Work wise.

I'm reluctant to get into too much personal detail on the web, but I'm in finance.

889 Cobdenite  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 12:54:22am

re: #53 HelloDare

Palin did it to herself. Perhaps her most under-reported, and highly self-revealing remark dealt with how much she thought about fruit fly research. You know, fruit flies... those tiny little things that basically serve as a model organism for genetics research all around the world. Her own ignorance did her in. Mr. Jindal isn't going to get much farther, one hopes.

890 Westward Ho  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 3:05:36am

re: #637 Wendya

There is no single shred of scientific evidence that shows man is having a deleterious effect on our climate.

What about Ozone Depletion?

891 Nemesis6  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 3:43:55am

And so, the cancer mutate and finds new avenues of attack.

I hadn't even heard of Palin's ignorance on the fruit fly subject. Christ, she just keeps saying stupid things, like she just has to keep on reaching into that bucket of cheap gimmicks to get appear clever to her audience, and every time she tries, she makes an ass of herself. Another reason you're better served with Obama. Seriously, imagine her state of the union address... "I personally believe that U.S Americans---"
Yeah, Miss Teen Carolina all over again, except Miss Teen South Carolina has somewhat of an excuse/explanation for her ignorance.

892 Jimmah  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 6:51:23am

re: #765 freetoken

I disagree that the hockey-stick (as it has been called) was intended (by the original scientists) to imply "runaway" in the sense that scientists use the term "runaway" nowadays. The popular press might use the term "runaway" for all sorts of things, such as inflation, where scientists and engineers might not.

The reason scientists (and this applies to the evolution discussion as much as to AGW or anything else) are often boring is because of the insistence on details and language.

This is one of those cases... one man's "runaway" might just be another person's "change"!

The hockey-stick diagrams, and indeed the IPCC documents, do not imply a runaway climate change. What is the consensus is that if mankind doubles the CO2 concentration in the atmosphere by 2100 that the resultant changes on the Earth would include the Earth's surface average (over the entire globe, over a long time span) temperature would rise a little over 2C compared to the later 20th century. In my book that is not "runaway".

One doesn't have to look at the Earth as a whole though, and there might be certain subsystems of the Earth that might have their own little "runaway" problems.

The idea that methane escaping due to melting permafrost or deep sea methane melting ... are interesting ideas, but of all the climate related sites I visit (by scientists, not the political ones) there is no conclusion reached.

That is why I consider many of the recent posts (links) added here (often mocking AGW as real science) to be more red herrings than anything else...

There is a difference (if one bothers to look) between what really is a scientific consensus (that man is perturbing the Earth's climate) versus popular press/blogs often histrionic attributions of supposed claims.

Finally, I really don't see where the protesting against AGW among the Lizards really helps their cause. It is one thing to dislike a politician (like Al Gore), but another to dismiss and entire area of science... especially on a blog that self determines itself to be a leading advocate of Western Civilization versus forces in the world that are more destructive and backwards in nature.

Word.

893 Jimmah  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 6:52:49am

re: #891 Nemesis6

A bit harsh, perhaps, but essentially correct.

894 quickjustice  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 7:16:26am

re: #891 Nemesis6

Attacking Sarah Palin? A worthy pursuit on Obama's Inauguration Day. /sarc

Unless, of course, she's really a threat to him!

895 pingjockey  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 7:33:09am

re: #891 Nemesis6
Go piss up a rope.

896 Yashmak  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 7:39:18am

re: #893 Jimmah

A bit harsh, perhaps, but essentially correct.

Sadly, I must agree. She's done great as governor of Alaska, and I'm sure she's in tune with the issues of her state, but the more I hear her talk about national/world issues, the gladder I am that we didn't end up with her as V.P.

Although, come to think of it, Biden is at least as bad on those issues.

897 Yashmak  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 7:43:32am

re: #885 affenkopf

I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use.

Galileo Galilei

That's a fantastic quote, and one I agree with wholeheartedly. In addition to giving us these gifts, I believe God had something to say about bearing false witness, which is a practice the young-earthers engage in regularly, even if only through willful ignorance.

Obviously, these folks aren't going to be satisfied with simply pushing pseudo-science into the science classroom. They're going to try and discredit every other proven scientific technique commonly that can be used to support evolution sciences.

898 Ojoe  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 8:20:58am

re: #602 Occasional Reader

It was from a Wiki article, a scientific one, so believable.

899 funky chicken  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 9:19:10am

These freaks lose elections for the GOP. If mainstream conservatives don't convince these folks to drink a big cup of STFU, watch Texas go strong democrat in the near future. I'd guess the democrats elected to statewide office in TX will be relatively conservative, but still.

900 grundle  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 9:24:46am

Here in Texas SBOE members are elected by the people. You do a survey in TX about creationism and you will get about 70-80% support for teaching it in schools. It's that simple. People know what they are voting for.

901 Yashmak  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 9:53:05am

re: #900 grundle

Here in Texas SBOE members are elected by the people. You do a survey in TX about creationism and you will get about 70-80% support for teaching it in schools. It's that simple. People know what they are voting for.

It's too bad that so many are willing to risk the validity of their children's science education out of (I'm guessing) religious zeal.

902 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 9:59:25am

re: #900 grundle

Here in Texas SBOE members are elected by the people. You do a survey in TX about creationism and you will get about 70-80% support for teaching it in schools. It's that simple. People know what they are voting for.

Well, we have only your word for that. But on the other hand, when they did take a survey of Texas biology professors, 98% rejected the teaching of creationism.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

903 skullkrusher  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 10:03:29am

re: #900 grundle

That's the problem with public schools. The public is stupid. Teaching Creationism violates the Establishment clause

904 grundle  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 10:04:17am

It's a trade off. You elect your education officials you get creationism, when they are appointed and unaccountable you get math and science replaced with proper condom usage and the religion of climate change.

905 grundle  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 10:06:19am

Those are the same biology professors who believe in global warming, oh yea it's climate change now.

906 skullkrusher  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 10:09:02am

re: #904 grundle

It's a trade off. You elect your education officials you get creationism, when they are appointed and unaccountable you get math and science replaced with proper condom usage and the religion of climate change.

at least climate change theory is based on science ( good or bad ). Condom usage serves a beneficial purpose. Thinking the Earth was created in 6 days does no one any good and has a 5000 year old fable as its only foundation. God is probably insulted when New Earthers die and go to heaven. "Damn people, I gave you reason and this is what you do with it? Damn ingrates" - God :)

907 grundle  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 10:22:57am

Bad science is not science. I don't think the earth is 5000 years old, that belongs to the 7th day advantists. Climate change is a religion practiced with a zeal not seen since the days of the Inquisition. Creationism is mainly an equal time movement.
Readin' writin' rithmatic' is what we need to get back to in school and not touchy feely liberalism. Everything else is theory and art.

908 skullkrusher  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 10:31:41am

re: #907 grundle

Bad science is not science. I don't think the earth is 5000 years old, that belongs to the 7th day advantists. Climate change is a religion practiced with a zeal not seen since the days of the Inquisition. Creationism is mainly an equal time movement.
Readin' writin' rithmatic' is what we need to get back to in school and not touchy feely liberalism. Everything else is theory and art.

Flawed science is still science. The vast majority of science is flawed. It takes time and peer review and ability to reproduce results to move towards generally accepted principles.
These people in Texas have no interest in science. They do have an interest in pushing their fundamentalist religious agenda on the public, however.
If 70% of people in Texas truly believe this stuff, then perhaps we should encourage the Texas Indepedence movement because I do not want those people anywhere near our national elections.
Those people got us 8 years of a bungling, liberal in conservative clothing except when it comes to war administration and I am not interested in seeing Obama lose in 2012 just so that another Christian Fundi can take over the reigns of the most powerful military on earth.

909 Yashmak  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 12:15:42pm

re: #908 skullkrusher

Flawed science is still science. The vast majority of science is flawed. It takes time and peer review and ability to reproduce results to move towards generally accepted principles.

Indeed, whereas creationism is not flawed science, good science, OR bad science. It's simply NOT science. . .no matter what terminology you clothe it in.

910 Nemesis6  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 1:17:52pm

re: #895 pingjockey

In what respect, Charlie?

911 NoWhereAlaska  Tue, Jan 20, 2009 10:07:56pm

re: #480 Racer X

I was fishing in the eastern Sierras with a buddy and we saw 2 eagles in a tree on the edge of the lake, mother and a young one. We had plenty of fish so we tossed a trout about 30 feet from our boat and slowly drifted away from it. The little fella quickly got a bead on the trout and flew down out of the tree to grab it, about 50ft from us. Coolest thing ever.

Naughty, naughty you! That's a major violation of the law. The Eagle Police will arrest you if they catch you doing that.

Here in Alaska we usually filet our rockfish, whistle, and toss the carcass back in the water. If the eagles are hungry, they seem to come out of no where, sweep down and snag them. You are right it is really cool! You need to have your camera ready next time. And yes, I too, ignore the Eagle Police regularly.

912 ebed_melech  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 3:48:53pm

Sorry to join in late.
The evidence for a catastrophic not uniformitarian geologic history is overwhelming, as is the evidence of institutional resistance by the Geological Society, for example in the case of the decades of the lampooning of the megafloods like that at Spokane, now generally accepted as a relatively small example of the massive regional floods in N America.

The Apostle Peter predicted this species of anti-intellectual prejudice long ago,

'3 ¶ Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:'

913 Charles Johnson  Fri, Jan 23, 2009 9:09:13am

And now here's our resident young earth creationist fanatic, long after the thread is dead, to spew more nonsense about a "Great Flood" that simply never existed.


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