Palestinian Journalists: Death Toll Exaggerated

Middle East • Views: 3,628

The casualty numbers pushed out by Hamas—and reported uncritically by the mainstream media—are beginning to deflate: Gazan doctor says death toll inflated.

Italian newspaper Corriere Della Sera reported Thursday that a doctor working in Gaza’s Shifa Hospital claimed that Hamas has intentionally inflated the number of casualties resulting from Israel’s Operation Cast Lead.

“The number of deceased stands at no more than 500 to 600. Most of them are youths between the ages of 17 to 23 who were recruited to the ranks of Hamas, who sent them to the slaughter,” according to the newspaper article. The doctor wished to remain unidentified, out of fear for his life.

A senior Palestinian Health Ministry official later denied the claims, and the Israel Defense Forces’ estimate on the number of casualties in Gaza has also remained unchanged. Despite the claims, the IDF stood behind its estimate that between 1,100 to 1,200 people were killed in the Strip during the fighting, more than two-thirds of them Hamas members. …

Dr. Moaiya Hassanain, who is in change of the emergency department at the Palestinian Health Ministry in Gaza, denied the figures presented by the Italian paper.

Hassanain told Ynet that the Palestinian figures were issued cautiously, without any political considerations [Would Hamas lie to you? – ed.], and that several casualties may not have been reported as their bodies are still under the rubble or have not been handed over to the rescue forces and authorized medical officials.

A Tal al-Hawa resident told the newspaper’s reporter, “Armed Hamas men sought out a good position for provoking the Israelis. There were mostly teenagers, aged 16 or 17, and armed. They couldn’t do a thing against a tank or a jet. They knew they are much weaker, but they fired at our houses so that they could blame Israel for war crimes.”

The reporter for the Italian newspaper also quoted reporters in the Strip who told of Hamas’ exaggerated figures, “We have already said to Hamas commanders – why do you insist on inflating the number of victims?”

These same reporters mentioned that the truth that will come out is likely to be similar to what occurred in Operation Defensive Shield in Jenin. “Then, there was first talk of 1,500 deaths. But then it turned out that there were only 54, 45 of which were armed men,” the Palestinian reporters told the Italian newspaper.

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232 comments
1 Diamond Bullet  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:16:55am

Gosh, it's almost like Hamas doesn't want to the world to know how Israel beat them like a drum.

2 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:16:56am

Exaggerating the numbers. eh?

Look, the Arabs claim to have invented the first zero; so what's to stop them adding a few more on, when the need arises?

3 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:17:11am

I'm shocked that Hamas would lie, utterly shocked.

/

4 smokefire  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:17:22am

.....................my goodness inflated death tolls, from Palestinian Journalists. Unheard of, Impossible. What are we to do.

[SARCASM]

5 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:17:23am

This Gaza Death Toll Inflation is as likely to be covered by the MSM as Scrotal Inflation.

6 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:17:23am

Lies, filthy Zioinist Honco lies! Over eleventy billion Palestinian nuns and orphans were killed, representing over 173% of the population of Gaza.

7 Pyrocles  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:17:38am

"why do you insist on inflating the number of victims?" - Because it's what they do.

8 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:17:50am

Yeah, the inflated numbers made it sound like Israel won! That's impolitic! We can't have that!

9 Gella  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:18:20am

so leftists will try to tell the world how evil Israel is

10 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:18:21am

re: #2 Guanxi88

Exaggerating the numbers. eh?

Look, the Arabs claim to have invented the first zero; so what's to stop them adding a few more on, when the need arises?

Actually, they got the zero (and the rest of the "Arabic" numerals) from the Hindus, who rarely get credited for the technology they developed.

11 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:18:32am
“We have already said to Hamas commanders – why do you insist on inflating the number of victims?”

Why do journalists ask such stupid questions? They inflate the numbers because it's hard to claim a genocide with only 500-600 bodies.

12 smokefire  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:18:45am

re: #6 Occasional Reader

Lies, filthy Zioinist Honco lies! Over eleventy billion Palestinian nuns and orphans were killed, representing over 173% of the population of Gaza.

Eleventy Billion.............................?

forget it he's rolling

13 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:18:56am

re: #6 Occasional Reader

Lies, filthy Zioinist Honco lies! Over eleventy billion Palestinian nuns and orphans were killed, representing over 173% of the population of Gaza.

Don't forget that there are 8 Billion Muslims around the world who are now seething!

14 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:19:00am
“Armed Hamas men sought out a good position for provoking the Israelis. There were mostly teenagers, aged 16 or 17, and armed

I await the ringing Amnesty International denunciation of Hamas using "child soldiers" with bated breath.

[eep]
[im turning blue]

15 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:19:07am

Muslims lying about something to make Jooos look like vengeful Nazi murderers? Well-tip me over with a wet noodle.

16 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:19:14am

Any way you slice it, Ham-ass got their collective asses kicked by Israel. I'd like to ask those idiots what it feels like to be a loser for your entire life.

17 lifeofthemind  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:19:43am

If you can't trust highly trained professionals who adhere to rigorous standards with positively layers of fact checkers then who can you trust?

Here kid, I'll give you this big shiny nickel for that little dirty dime.

18 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:19:44am

That 2 finger stomach CPR move must have saved countless lives....

This is like a newspaper correction. If you never read page 22 three weeks later, the original falsified number is the one people remember.

19 Gella  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:19:45am

Hamas = bunch of wimps

20 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:19:51am

How soon before some of these journalists go flying off tall buildings in Gaza City?

21 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:20:01am

Hamas: WE WON
Hamas: BUT THE EVIL JOOOS KILLED EVERYONE IN THE GENOCIDE
Hamas: BUT WE STILL WON

22 Ben Hur  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:20:06am

Victory and Massacre.

23 looking closely  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:20:08am

Where is the international outrage at Hamas murdering and torturing their other Palestinians during this mess?

24 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:20:11am

re: #10 Kosh's Shadow

Actually, they got the zero (and the rest of the "Arabic" numerals) from the Hindus, who rarely get credited for the technology they developed.

That's why I tack on the "claimed" bit about it. Except for Kufic script, I have discovered very few purely Arabic contributions to the sum total of human arts, science, or culture for some time.

25 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:20:33am
“Then, there was first talk of 1,500 deaths. But then it turned out that there were only 54, 45 of which were armed men,” the Palestinian reporters told the Italian newspaper.

This is almost incomprehensible.

26 DeafDog  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:20:58am

re: #7 Pyrocles

"why do you insist on inflating the number of victims?" - Because it's what they do.

Are you referring to Hamas or Nancy Pelosi & Harry Reid?

/

27 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:20:59am

Heck, as far as I can see they actually hope for high civilian casualities by gathering people in areas they know will be targeted, and by firing rockets from school yards and from and other populated areas.

28 Teacake!  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:21:16am

No doubt this will be big news for mainstream media.

29 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:21:50am

There is something seriously wrong with the journalism of today if a reporter needs to ask why a terrorist organization is lying.

Hello, McFly!

30 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:21:54am

re: #24 Guanxi88

That's why I tack on the "claimed" bit about it. Except for Kufic script, I have discovered very few purely Arabic contributions to the sum total of human arts, science, or culture for some time.

I think fauxtography, exasperated seething and "I keeeel you" all qualify as contributions.

/

31 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:21:55am
32 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:22:04am

re: #25 MandyManners

This is almost incomprehensible.

Look, it's like this:

High death tolls = Zionist Massacre of innocents

Low Death tolls = Superiority of Hamas

Add them together, and you get a rough idea of the PR goals at work here.

33 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:22:04am

Obama is using "Flag Officers" to justify a political decision?

34 vxbush  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:22:15am

I believe the American media is reporting over 500 deaths for Palestinians. At least, that is what I recall hearing on the evening news. Even if the true number is 100, that's 500% inflation for the American media, and 3000% inflation from the Palestinian media.

35 notutopia  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:22:44am

Thank you Doctor for having the courage of speaking the truth. God Bless and Stay safe.

36 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:22:45am
They knew they are much weaker, but they fired at our houses so that they could blame Israel for war crimes.

I was wondering about the reports of children shot in the head at close range. It seems more likely that Hamas was doing this to blame the Israelis.

37 JacksonTn  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:22:51am

OT ...FOX showing Obama signing GITMO closing orders at his desk ...his eyes are swollen ... I think he has been crying ...

38 Pope Insouciance IV  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:23:04am
A senior Palestinian Health Ministry official later denied the claims, and then shot ten doctors on the off-chance that he killed the offending one.

Sounds more realistic this way.

39 lifeofthemind  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:23:13am

Seething school, how to be "Plenty Tough"

40 Gella  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:23:35am

re: #37 JacksonTn
or laughing

41 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:23:54am

re: #30 karmic_inquisitor

I think fauxtography, exasperated seething and "I keeeel you" all qualify as contributions.

/

Fauxtography they cribbed off the Soviets, who were very good at it. Exasperated seething, well, they got that off any and every three year old with incompetent parents. "I keeel you!" they cribbed from Peter Lorre, a Hungarian.

As I said, very few genuinely Arabic contributions....

42 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:24:01am

re: #37 JacksonTn

OT ...FOX showing Obama signing GITMO closing orders at his desk ...his eyes are swollen ... I think he has been crying ...

Tears of joy as he liberates brothers in arms ....

43 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:24:34am

re: #37 JacksonTn

OT ...FOX showing Obama signing GITMO closing orders at his desk ...his eyes are swollen ... I think he has been crying ...

Murtha just got 450 new neighbors. I hope they treat him as well as they treated our brave soldiers in Iraq.

Murtha = idiot and I'd like to be the first to nominate him for a Fiskie in 2009.

44 Spiny Norman  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:24:41am

re: #1 Diamond Bullet

Gosh, it's almost like Hamas doesn't want to the world to know how Israel beat them like a drum.

The first line of the Australian ABC's report:

The political leader of Hamas has declared that his organisation won the recent war in the Gaza Strip.

And the final line:

The Hamas leadership is still in hiding.

As long as one of those rats is still breathing, Ham-ass claims "victory".

h/t Tim Blair

45 JacksonTn  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:24:51am

re: #42 karmic_inquisitor

Tears of joy as he liberates brothers in arms ....

I swear they are clapping behind him like parents of a child who just used the toilet after a year of potty training ...geez ...

46 notutopia  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:25:03am

re: #37 JacksonTn

OT ...FOX showing Obama signing GITMO closing orders at his desk ...his eyes are swollen ... I think he has been crying ...

He had better save those crocodile media loving sympathy tears. Did he go to acting school? Sheesh

47 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:25:08am

re: #41 Guanxi88

Fauxtography they cribbed off the Soviets, who were very good at it. Exasperated seething, well, they got that off any and every three year old with incompetent parents. "I keeel you!" they cribbed from Peter Lorre, a Hungarian.

As I said, very few genuinely Arabic contributions....

Damn!

OK. What about "ULULULULULULULULULULULUL!"

I've got you there.

/

48 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:25:09am

re: #42 karmic_inquisitor

Tears of joy as he liberates brothers in arms ....

"Brothers in Arms"?

Please!

The Chosen One never touched a weapon in his life.

49 looking closely  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:25:23am

As predicted, immediately after the shooting stopped, Hamas crawled out from under its rocks and declared victory. Of course in any conventional military sense, Hamas lost.

Hamas absorbed almost all of the casualties, including a few to senior leadership, and their infrastructure and materiel was severely damaged.

How much Hamas' standing/perception has been damaged remains to be seen, but that's probably equally important. If Hamas loses its sponsorship by Iran, that's really a big blow.

Also, whether or not Israel met its (non-stated) goal of putting a halt to rocket attacks also remains to be seen.

50 lifeofthemind  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:25:45am

Didn't the Israelis claim during the war that they killed about 400 terrorists and about 300 civilian shields? How did they get it wrong? If they didn't kill and injure more of Hamas then stopping the operation makes it a complete failure.

51 MarineGrunt  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:25:55am

The norm in a battlefield is to report less casualties than the actual number, keeps your enemy guessing at his success.

Not Hamas, they like to brag, like claiming victory, after a smack down.

52 nyc redneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:25:55am

the doctor wished to remain unidentified out of fear for his life.
it is incredible this person spoke up. he knows what kind of savages he is dealing w/.
i hope the best for him. and kudos for his courage.
amazing.

53 Ringo the Gringo  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:25:55am

re: #29 Sharmuta

There is something seriously wrong with the journalism of today if a reporter needs to ask why a terrorist organization is lying.

Hello, McFly!

Unfortunately most journalist (at least in that part of the world) don't consider Hamas to be a terrorist group, they consider them to be a "resistance movement" or "militants" - anything but terrorists.

54 smokefire  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:26:52am

re: #20 MandyManners

How soon before some of these journalists go flying off tall buildings in Gaza City?

.................there are tall buildings in Gaza?

55 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:27:00am

The American Left this habit of inflating numbers also.
How many Iraqi deaths to date?
Last I heard it was millions.

56 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:27:03am

Charles-can I humbly suggest a new category for these kind of stories?

World's Most Incompetent Genocide.

57 CIA Reject  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:27:17am

re: #53 Ringo the Gringo

Unfortunately most journalist (at least in that part of the world) don't consider Hamas to be a terrorist group, they consider them to be a "resistance movement" or "militants" - anything but terrorists.

"Community Organizers"
///////

58 Salem  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:27:44am

Look at his top priorities. We are in for it.

59 DeafDog  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:27:45am

re: #37 JacksonTn

OT ...FOX showing Obama signing GITMO closing orders at his desk ...his eyes are swollen ... I think he has been crying ...


Michelle beat the stuffing out of him for making her wear that yellow dress.

60 VegasRick  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:27:47am

re: #40 Gella

or laughing

At us.

61 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:28:05am

re: #47 karmic_inquisitor

Damn!

OK. What about "ULULULULULULULULULULULUL!"

I've got you there.

/

Okay, you do gotta give them that! Oooh! and don't forget Happy-Fire! I think that's one of theirs, too.

62 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:28:20am

re: #27 Ringo the Gringo

Heck, as far as I can see they actually hope for high civilian casualities by gathering people in areas they know will be targeted, and by firing rockets from school yards and from and other populated areas.

And it shows how hard the Israelis work to prevent civilian casualties.
But the way Israel gets treated, they might as well carpet bomb the place; the UN, MSM, euroNazis, etc. all act as if they did.
(I'm not saying they should; obviously there are humanitarian reasons not to; I'm just saying they are treated as if they do)

63 maddogg  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:28:37am

Hamas inflates the numbers in order to exploit victimhood, and the unblinking MSM print lies because it suits their sentiments. No need to check the facts. Besides, the MSM is once again and always a partner in propaganda. It isn't new, they covered up FDR's inability to walk, and JFK's dependence on drugs and his indiscretions. But let a Republican stub his toe and there will be a dozen cameras in his bathroom. The issue is the total lack of any reporting agency interested in telling the truth, not the fact that Hamas lies.

64 albusteve  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:29:00am

re: #37 JacksonTn

OT ...FOX showing Obama signing GITMO closing orders at his desk ...his eyes are swollen ... I think he has been crying ...

such a juvenile shell game to impress the droolers...like what's next? what's he gonna do with the terrorists? does he have a plan thought out? it's so jr high it makes me laugh....big secrets!...whoa...

65 DeafDog  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:29:11am

re: #43 Jetpilot1101

Murtha just got 450 new neighbors. I hope they treat him as well as they treated our brave soldiers in Iraq.

Murtha = idiot and I'd like to be the first to nominate him for a Fiskie in 2009.

I'm sure his racist enlightened constituents will welcome them with open arms.

66 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:29:49am

re: #37 JacksonTn

OT ...FOX showing Obama signing GITMO closing orders at his desk ...his eyes are swollen ... I think he has been crying ...

All those here who've spoken down from their mighty and lofty perches to tell us to give him a chance should be eating a ton of crow by now. I hope they choke on it.

67 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:29:54am

re: #63 maddogg

Hamas inflates the numbers in order to exploit victimhood, and the unblinking MSM print lies because it suits their sentiments. No need to check the facts. Besides, the MSM is once again and always a partner in propaganda. It isn't new, they covered up FDR's inability to walk, and JFK's dependence on drugs and his indiscretions. But let a Republican stub his toe and there will be a dozen cameras in his bathroom. The issue is the total lack of any reporting agency interested in telling the truth, not the fact that Hamas lies.

Thankfully, some of those media outlets are failing and I firmly believe that in light of the impending economic disaster that will soon be upon us, many of them will not survive.

68 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:29:57am

re: #31 buzzsawmonkey

The media always takes its Funhouse Mirror Lenses when it looks at Gaza--or indeed, any aspect of the Israeli-Arab conflict.

Distortion is the standard practice.

The MFM's distorted mirror makes Jews look like caricatures from Der Sturmer.

69 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:29:59am

Hamas? Lie? That's unpossible!

/do I have to?

70 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:30:02am

Israel actually disputes the figures, claiming that about 1,300 did die, but that most - 700 were Hamas.

I think the truth is somewhere in between. I think we're going to find that most were indeed Hamas thugs and that the death toll is lower than Israel believed, but higher than the figures quoted by the Italian paper.

Where the Italian paper gets it right is that the Hamas thugs purposefully inflated the body count by using human shields, forcing attacks from civilian areas, and otherwise engaging in multiple war crimes.

Of course, the UN will claim that it's all Israel's fault, and they're already complaining and whining and seething as they've bought into the Hamas line.

More here.

71 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:30:17am

The ACLU file suit against TIZA

The suit also alleges that there are prayers on the walls of the school entry and that teachers have participated in student prayer activities. Samuelson said the school has used its website to seek volunteers to lead prayers, and that it requires students and staff to dress in attire that conform to Islamic religion. He also said the school has issued a handbook instructing staff to not discuss what goes on at the school. “You cannot have a broad secrecy oath” in a school funded with public dollars, Samuelson said.

Wow!

72 winston06  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:30:19am

Sure. That's now believable.

73 J.S.  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:30:31am

CTV, a Canadian tv broadcaster of the "news", claims (as of Jan. 19, 2009), "At least 1,259 Palestinians died in the fighting". Yeah, sure, tell us another one, eh? (Wonder if the BBC tops that number? also CTV doesn't round off 1,259 to 1,260, guess they figure it makes the number look more "authentic", "accurate" a precise count down to the actual, individual number, sans embellishment)...

75 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:31:42am

re: #44 Spiny Norman

They win no matter what. Here's how:

-the leaders are still in power and alive
-they were able to get many of their own people killed by using them as human shields
-they killed a few Israeli soldiers
-they still have Gilad Shalit
-the tunnels are operational
-Iran still funding them
-Saudia Arabia funding re-building of Shitistan
-genocide, Nazi blood libels against Israel in the MSM all over the world
-images of dead Palestinian children to use for years to come or forever

It's hard to see how they haven't won here.

76 Ben Hur  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:31:46am
77 Bubblehead II  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:31:50am

bbiaw. Chores

78 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:31:58am

re: #71 Sharmuta

The ACLU file suit against TIZA


Wow!

I was expecting it.

79 yma o hyd  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:31:59am

Interesting that its again an Italian reporter/newspaper who comes out with this.

IIRC, it was also an Italian reporter who said that actually nobody was starving in Gaza, when the israelis allowed journalists into that place.

80 MarineGrunt  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:32:31am

re: #48 Guanxi88

The Chosen One never touched a weapon in his life.

Maybe not a weapon, but I'm sure he handles a "gun" everyday at the urinal.

81 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:32:46am

re: #37 JacksonTn

Linky? I thought he was just drafting orders to review it by a year's time.

82 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:33:32am

re: #74 pink freud

"Federal judge rules that state law requiring moment of silence in public schools across Illinois is unconstitutional"

...and the beat goes on

So now a Christian kid in school CAN'T pray out LOUD and CAN'T be QUIET ,,,,typical moonbat logic!

83 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:33:33am

re: #69 MrSilverDragon

Hamas? Lie? That's unpossible!

/do I have to?

Use the correct term. It isn't lying if it is to an infidel; it is taqqiya, and perfectly acceptable according to the Koran.
/and Israel is supposed to sign a peace treaty with people like this?

84 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:33:33am

re: #80 MarineGrunt

Maybe not a weapon, but I'm sure he handles a "gun" everyday at the urinal.

Blasphemer! The One neither sweats nor excretes; he is above such primitive and crude metabolic functions.

85 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:33:53am

re: #80 MarineGrunt

Maybe not a weapon, but I'm sure he handles a "gun" everyday at the urinal.

Now you really don't know if it's a gun or a water pistol?

86 nyc redneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:33:58am

re: #37 JacksonTn

OT ...FOX showing Obama signing GITMO closing orders at his desk ...his eyes are swollen ... I think he has been crying ...

omg, what a self-involved, melodramatic dork.
he is overcome w/ his sense of love and kindness for the enemy.
putting head choppers first.

88 VegasRick  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:34:33am
89 smokefire  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:34:58am

re: #80 MarineGrunt


Just for you.

HOO RAH.

90 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:35:24am

re: #74 pink freud

"Federal judge rules that state law requiring moment of silence in public schools across Illinois is unconstitutional"

...and the beat goes on

Moment of silence? When a child can think about the ball game, upcoming test, or pray silently?
Wait until a Muslim wants to call the students to prayer.

91 J.S.  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:35:37am

re: #81 WriterMom

From what I've read Obama is suspending the prosecution of alleged terrorists held at Gitmo (not actually closing the facility -- at least that's my understanding...)

92 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:36:10am

I never noticed, but Obama is a lefty?

93 VegasRick  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:36:12am

re: #87 MandyManners

Thanks Mandy. I like to listen to that at least once a day.

94 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:36:12am

re: #86 nyc redneck

omg, what a self-involved, melodramatic dork.
he is overcome w/ his sense of love and kindness for the enemy.
putting head choppers first.

GTMO is going to turn into a ghost town again. I've been there many times since the camp opened up and they have been pouring money into the base to make life good for the people who wortk down there. If GTMO closes, the base will again fall into disrepair. Pity, it's really a beautiful location.

95 mamashawna  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:36:13am

Totally OT: But for those pickin and a grinnin LGF'ers, here's my next guitar when I can afford it: Mjobo Guitars

got this link from a friend of mine in Montana who knows the guy that makes these. Just too cool.

96 pat  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:36:20am

Looks like Hamas is trying to minimize its defeat. Internal needs.

97 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:36:24am

re: #82 sattv4u2

This is partly what produces Creationist types and makes them active.

98 notutopia  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:36:32am

The issue is that there were Doctors there that had to legitimize the certificate of deaths and cause of the deaths on all those who die in the hospital and clinics. Perhaps Dr. Mad and his entourage and the other Gaza sympathizers has signed false death attestations?
Did they film every dead body in the morgues? Multiple times?
Gruesome. But, they were ethical Norwegian Doctors. Weren't they?

99 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:36:34am

re: #81 WriterMom

Linky? I thought he was just drafting orders to review it by a year's time.

President Obama, putting his executive pen in his left hand to overrule eight years of Bush administration policy, signed "several" executive orders Thursday, including ones affecting national security and abortion.

The national security orders mandate that interrogation techniques in the Army Field Manual be used by all intelligence and law enforcement services; call for a task force to look at closing the detention center in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, within the year; and order a strategy be developed for handling detainees in the future. The presidential directive also orders a stay in the case of Ali Al-Marri, the only person being held by the military as an enemy combatant on U.S. soil.

SNIP

100 smokefire  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:36:38am

re: #91 J.S.

From what I've read Obama is suspending the prosecution of alleged terrorists held at Gitmo (not actually closing the facility -- at least that's my understanding...)

101 albusteve  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:36:44am

re: #92 Nevergiveup

I never noticed, but Obama is a lefty?

yes x two

102 maddogg  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:36:52am

re: #37 JacksonTn

OT ...FOX showing Obama signing GITMO closing orders at his desk ...his eyes are swollen ... I think he has been crying ...

The joy at finally being able to right Americas wrongs just got to him.
/

103 MarineGrunt  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:36:53am

re: #85 Nevergiveup

Now you really don't know if it's a gun or a water pistol?

Squirt pistol?

104 VegasRick  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:37:00am

re: #91 J.S.

From what I've read Obama is suspending the prosecution of alleged terrorists held at Gitmo (not actually closing the facility -- at least that's my understanding...)

He wants to close it.

105 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:37:03am

re: #10 Kosh's Shadow

Actually, they got the zero (and the rest of the "Arabic" numerals) from the Hindus, who rarely get credited for the technology they developed.

I have never heard or read the Arabs came up with the concept of zero, that was left to the Hindus. What I have been told is our number characters and system came to the West from the Mid-East during the Crusades. The only contribution the Arabs made was to preserve and transmit the information.

Gee, lies from Hamas eagerly believed and broadcast worldwide by a complicit, lying media. Synchronicity.

106 faraway  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:37:26am

re: #92 Nevergiveup

I never noticed, but Obama is a lefty?

Leftist

107 Salem  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:37:28am

I seriously doubt he was crying. Probably hasn't gotten much sleep.

108 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:37:29am

One Pennsylvanian’s response to John Murtha
By Michelle Malkin • January 22, 2009 11:20 AM
I’ll have more to say about Murtha in my column tomorrow, but for now I’ll share what one Pa. voter suggested would be a fair trade:
“We’ll take the detainees if Gitmo will take Murtha.”

[Link: michellemalkin.com...]

109 godfrey  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:37:51am

re: #95 mamashawna

Cool. There are plans online for making your own cigar-box guitar.

110 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:37:57am

re: #100 smokefire

Both

111 yma o hyd  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:38:16am

re: #70 lawhawk

Israel actually disputes the figures, claiming that about 1,300 did die, but that most - 700 were Hamas.

I think the truth is somewhere in between. I think we're going to find that most were indeed Hamas thugs and that the death toll is lower than Israel believed, but higher than the figures quoted by the Italian paper.

Where the Italian paper gets it right is that the Hamas thugs purposefully inflated the body count by using human shields, forcing attacks from civilian areas, and otherwise engaging in multiple war crimes.

Of course, the UN will claim that it's all Israel's fault, and they're already complaining and whining and seething as they've bought into the Hamas line.

More here.

It won't be Hamas who'll be accused of war crimes - we know that!

Also - the age range of the dead tells me that the number of 'children' alledgedly killed by the IDF must be much much lower: youths of 17 are usually regarded as children.
But don't wait for the MFM to accuse Hamas of using their own children as human shields!

112 J.S.  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:38:48am

re: #104 VegasRick

Correct -- that's the rhetoric or "the claim." Hasn't happened yet to my knowledge.

113 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:38:52am

re: #71 Sharmuta

The ACLU file suit against TIZA

Wow!

Hey gang- please ding the spinoff link- that's why I put it in my comment. Thanks.

114 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:38:55am
115 albusteve  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:39:29am

re: #100 smokefire

right...that's the simple part...he's showboating...
what's the plan Oboy?...got yer cart before yer horse?

116 faraway  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:39:33am

re: #107 Salem

I seriously doubt he was crying. Probably hasn't gotten much sleep.

Maybe Darth Cheney left some itching powder on his pillow.

117 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:39:47am

re: #113 Sharmuta

Hey gang- please ding the spinoff link- that's why I put it in my comment. Thanks.

Consider it dinged.

118 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:40:02am

re: #71 Sharmuta

The ACLU file suit against TIZA

Wow!

(Looks around) Did the paradigm shift on Tuesday? This is so uncharacteristic of the ACLU as to almost make me think this is American Leftoid Taqqiya.

119 maddogg  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:40:09am

re: #113 Sharmuta

Hey gang- please ding the spinoff link- that's why I put it in my comment. Thanks.

For you? Anything! :)

120 dhg4  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:40:21am

This is something to keep in mind when reading yesterday's NYT editorial that claims:

Some estimates put the cost of reconstructing 25,000 destroyed or damaged homes, 20 mosques, 16 government buildings and other projects at about $2 billion. Saudi Arabia has pledged $1 billion for rebuilding. It should deliver that aid quickly and encourage other Arab states to contribute. Care must be taken that the money is used well.

Truth is, we don't know what the actual number is. (And forget for the moment that at least some fo the mosques that were damaged were housing terrorists and weapons.) If the casualty figures are inflated, so too are the damage figures.

121 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:40:26am

re: #113 Sharmuta

Hey gang- please ding the spinoff link- that's why I put it in my comment. Thanks.

I couldn't find it.

122 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:40:27am
123 Eowyn2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:40:44am

re: #6 Occasional Reader

Lies, filthy Zioinist Honco lies! Over eleventy billion Palestinian nuns and orphans were killed, representing over 173% of the population of Gaza.

Palestinian NUNS? Ha. Palestinian 'Bagged Martyrs'

Question: how come the female martyrs who normally wear the hefty bags have bilboards showing their faces? Is this something like the old Pashas who used to sutti their households and the only time the riff raff saw the wives was upon her trip to the pyre?

124 VegasRick  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:41:12am

re: #121 MandyManners

I couldn't find it.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

125 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:41:21am

re: #121 MandyManners

The link in that comment is the spinoff

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

126 tfc3rid  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:41:44am

Obama is single handedly making us less safe...

And he sure has respect for human life, too...

127 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:41:54am

re: #1 Diamond Bullet

Gosh, it's almost like Hamas doesn't want to the world to know how Israel beat them like a drum.

I just wish they were still beating them, and hadn't backed off.

128 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:42:21am

re: #92 Nevergiveup

I never noticed, but Obama is a lefty?

I don't know, or care, if the man is a southpaw (I am a member of that club), but I do know on the political spectrum the man is far, far, far, far, far, far, far, far left of Stalin and Lenin.

129 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:42:35am

re: #107 Salem

I seriously doubt he was crying. Probably hasn't gotten much sleep.

or maybe he stepped outside for a smoke and either the cold weather or smoke made his eyes water

130 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:42:46am

re: #124 VegasRick

re: #125 Sharmuta

I'm still confused about that function but, I followed the link and dinged.

131 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:43:02am

re: #103 MarineGrunt

Squirt pistol?

Carbon cap gun

132 gymmom  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:43:04am

re: #90 Kosh's Shadow

I never understood how the ACLU twisted the protection of the right to practice religion unhindered by the government into no practicing of religion in public. The concept seems so simple and obvious.

133 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:43:18am

re: #118 FurryOldGuyJeans

(Looks around) Did the paradigm shift on Tuesday? This is so uncharacteristic of the ACLU as to almost make me think this is American Leftoid Taqqiya.

It's what the ACLU should be doing, and I'm glad to see them doing it. I hope they'll actually be consistent about this sort of stuff.

134 MJ  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:43:24am

SF Chronicle fires Jew-hating columnist:


Chronicle Cans Firebrand Columnist Robert Scheer -- And He's 'Pissed Off'

[Link: blogs.sfweekly.com...]

135 faraway  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:43:27am

re: #126 tfc3rid

Obama is single handedly making us less safe...

And he sure has respect for human life, too...

Can't wait for a journo to ask "Does this make us safer" regarding the gitmo closing

136 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:43:36am

re: #92 Nevergiveup

I never noticed, but Obama is a lefty?

You didn't notice the sinister air about him?

137 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:44:11am

OT: The most annoying little pischer just keeps frikking haunting me about a project that I am actually DOING A FAVOUR for him by helping him with it, and he keeps coming to my office and striking a pose at my doorway. I feel like saying DUDE! Not only are you young and obnoxious, but you are REALLY NOT MY TYPE.

AND even more annoying is that he is one of those idiot people who are TOO IMPORTANT TO WRITE OUT THEIR WHOLE NAME AT THE END OF AN E-MAIL. Like, oooh I don't have time to type out 6 whole letters...ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

138 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:44:28am

re: #129 sattv4u2

or maybe he stepped outside for a smoke and either the cold weather or smoke made his eyes water

They asked me how I knew......

139 smokefire  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:44:48am

re: #115 albusteve

right...that's the simple part...he's showboating...
what's the plan Oboy?...got yer cart before yer horse?

oopsie, I am still having an award hangowver from last thread.

1124 smokefire 1/22/09 8:22:27 am reply quote

re: #1100 redstateredneck

I haven't awarded a K-spot prize in quite some time so this is quite an occasion.

Ahem...on behalf of the dead thread, I hereby award you this highly coveted lizard plaque.
This particular plaque has never been used as a k-spot award before.

140 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:44:51am

re: #114 buzzsawmonkey

The Arabs may not have come up with the concept of zero, but they have sinced deployed zeros to great advantage when inflating death tolls.

Did you see me argue that point? I never even addressed the taqqiya aspects of anything coming from Hamas. ;)

141 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:45:10am

OK. I feel better now.

142 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:45:15am

re: #137 WriterMom

OT: The most annoying little pischer just keeps frikking haunting me about a project that I am actually DOING A FAVOUR for him by helping him with it, and he keeps coming to my office and striking a pose at my doorway. I feel like saying DUDE! Not only are you young and obnoxious, but you are REALLY NOT MY TYPE.

AND even more annoying is that he is one of those idiot people who are TOO IMPORTANT TO WRITE OUT THEIR WHOLE NAME AT THE END OF AN E-MAIL. Like, oooh I don't have time to type out 6 whole letters...ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Sure sounds like he's hitting on you. I'd kick him in the balls if I were you.

143 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:45:30am

re: #137 WriterMom

and he keeps coming to my office and striking a pose at my doorway

If things get REALLY bad with him, his propensity for silhouetting himself in doorways may come in handy.

/

144 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:45:43am

They just asked on FOX, if we find Osama, where would he go now that Gitmo is out? Now I know where I would send him. Enough said.

145 Eowyn2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:45:47am

re: #98 notutopia

The issue is that there were Doctors there that had to legitimize the certificate of deaths and cause of the deaths on all those who die in the hospital and clinics. Perhaps Dr. Mad and his entourage and the other Gaza sympathizers has signed false death attestations?
Did they film every dead body in the morgues? Multiple times?
Gruesome. But, they were ethical Norwegian Doctors. Weren't they?

They are the wimpodites with the pillow arsenals.

I wonder if the Norwegian Doctors are holding dual citizenship but are of 'palestinian descent?'
Has anyone seen the norwegian doctors

146 Marvo76  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:45:57am

re: #48 Guanxi88

"Brothers in Arms"?

Please!

The Chosen One never touched a weapon in his life.

Sure he did, "the killer bong of death" right after he "blowed" his brains out....//

147 tfc3rid  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:46:00am

re: #135 faraway

Can't wait for a journo to ask "Does this make us safer" regarding the gitmo closing

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA

He doesn't allow 'Right Wing' bloggers into press briefings...

148 yma o hyd  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:46:21am

re: #99 MandyManners

From that report you linked:

'call for a task force to look at closing the detention center in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, within the year;'

Oooohhh - that is bureaucracy-speak at its finest!
It means - they're going to set up a task force ... within the year ... which will look at ... (that means, not actually doing anything except jabber about it) ... the closing ...

Moonbats have a lot to learn - this does not mean the facility will be closed within the year.
But it does look good, energetic, and like he's actually doing something ...

149 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:46:29am

re: #146 Marvo76

Sure he did, "the killer bong of death" right after he "blowed" his brains out....//

I didn't know he was in Sig Ep'

150 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:46:32am

re: #137 WriterMom

TOO IMPORTANT TO WRITE OUT THEIR WHOLE NAME AT THE END OF AN E-MAIL. Like, oooh I don't have time to type out 6 whole
reply to the e-mail stating

Sorry, but I'm doing so many things for so many people, could you please make sure you include your FULL NAME so I don't get this one confused with all the other (insert his 1st name here) that I am assisting!

151 MarineGrunt  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:46:35am

re: #89 smokefire

Ahhh, the good old days, This is my rifle, this is my gun, this is for fighting and this is for fun.

Once a week we had sex make love to your rifle night.
A happy rifle is a live Marine.

152 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:46:38am

re: #142 Jetpilot1101

I get that he is hitting on me...but I'm in HEEBIE JEEBIE mode, not flattered.

153 smokefire  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:47:07am

re: #139 smokefire

........just did not know how to take the award, am still very emotional over this award [sniff, sniff, tear falls down my cheek]

[you like me, you really like me. Snicker]

154 albusteve  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:47:12am

re: #135 faraway

Can't wait for a journo to ask "Does this make us safer" regarding the gitmo closing

the whole situation is just hopeless fantasy...the MSM made up this issue and it's become a bell ringer for the left and he's just stroking his droolers....the whole thing makes me sick....I hate the MSM....this dreamworld existance is gonna get even more people killed...BO is poison he's lethal and people high five him for it....just gross

155 J.S.  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:47:16am

re: #100 smokefire

I had read (last night) that Obama was "laying the groundwork" for a closure of Gitmo. But today I have read that, yes, indeed, he's signed an executive order to have Gitmo closed within a year...(for some reason i half expected some kind of common sense coming from the White House -- my mistake.) Next I suppose Canad-duh will be getting all the terrorists -- they'll dump 'em all up here...(just hope the lunatics here don't petition to make Omar Khadr a millionaire.)

156 Dustyvet  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:47:21am

re: #1 Diamond Bullet

Gosh, it's almost like Hamas doesn't want to the world to know how Israel beat them like a drum.

Beat them more like an unwanted step child...

157 opnion  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:47:23am

Barakus Maximus has just signed the Executive Order to close Gitmo within a year. He has also appointed a 'Task Force" ( unlimited Expense Accounts Baby!" to formulate new policies.
Sooooo, ununiformed, stateless terrorist thugs will now be given all those constitutional protections. They do not even qualify for the Geneva Conventions protections.
I am not saying, let's torture ,but intense rough techniques do not bother me. Hey we are not doing beheading, snuff films.

158 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:47:30am

re: #152 WriterMom

I get that he is hitting on me...but I'm in HEEBIE JEEBIE mode, not flattered.

Again, a swift kick in the nuts should cure that problem.

159 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:47:35am

re: #144 Nevergiveup

San Fransisco?

160 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:47:57am

re: #133 Sharmuta

It's what the ACLU should be doing, and I'm glad to see them doing it. I hope they'll actually be consistent about this sort of stuff.

I am just highly skeptical of this sudden change in the policies that the ACLU has pursued. If it is an honest change, and I do hope it is, then I am glad for it and hope it become permanent.

161 CIA Reject  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:48:15am

re: #107 Salem

I seriously doubt he was crying. Probably hasn't gotten much sleep.

That's my guess as well- it must be one helluva shock to his system to go from never having had an actual job to being the POTUS.

162 albusteve  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:48:27am

re: #139 smokefire

oopsie, I am still having an award hangowver from last thread.

1124 smokefire 1/22/09 8:22:27 am reply quote

re: #1100 redstateredneck

I haven't awarded a K-spot prize in quite some time so this is quite an occasion.

Ahem...on behalf of the dead thread, I hereby award you this highly coveted lizard plaque.
This particular plaque has never been used as a k-spot award before.

what is it?

163 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:48:28am

re: #143 Occasional Reader

It's the leaning on the door post, with the hands folded and one leg over the other thing that is so wanker-ish it's insane.

164 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:48:33am

re: #160 FurryOldGuyJeans

I am just highly skeptical of this sudden change in the policies that the ACLU has pursued. If it is an honest change, and I do hope it is, then I am glad for it and hope it become permanent.

Me too.

165 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:48:51am

re: #159 WriterMom

San Fransisco?

Well I was thinking of someplace a tad hotter, but I can see how the two could be confused.

166 opinionated  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:48:59am

Israel has to realize that before it can defeat the terrorists, it must defeat the press and media that is biased against them.

To do so that they must stop attempting to get along with the media and instead call them on their lies.

Play offense with the media -only.

Do not apologize when accused. Do not promise investigations.

In every single comment from an Israel leader or a Government spokesman should be inserted an incident -and there are plenty- of media lies and bias.

Make the media explain. Apologize. Promise investigations.

167 VegasRick  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:49:15am

re: #134 MJ

SF Chronicle fires Jew-hating columnist:


Chronicle Cans Firebrand Columnist Robert Scheer -- And He's 'Pissed Off'

[Link: blogs.sfweekly.com...]

I'd like to piss on him.

168 Marvo76  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:49:17am

re: #152 WriterMom

You know you cold find the company's sexual harrassment guidelines and invite him in to sign a copy, that might just get his attention if you do it in a really nice and suductive way....

169 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:49:30am
170 tfc3rid  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:49:34am

re: #157 opnion

I'm in favor of doing whatever it takes to get useful information out of terrorists. I approve of anything that Jack Bauer would do.

171 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:50:01am

re: #135 faraway

Can't wait for a journo to ask "Does this make us safer" regarding the gitmo closing

Even if one does the spin will be that we are, and yet doesn't matter because it improves our standing in the world, which is all that matters.

172 smokefire  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:50:13am

re: #162 albusteve

see Overnight thread Comment #1000, and comment 1124.

Breaking my balls.

173 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:50:28am

re: #163 WriterMom

It's the leaning on the door post, with the hands folded and one leg over the other thing that is so wanker-ish it's insane.

Probably saw it in a movie somewhere, and thinks it's the thing to do.

174 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:50:34am

re: #170 tfc3rid

I'm in favor of doing whatever it takes to get useful information out of terrorists. I approve of anything that Jack Bauer would do.

Be the son of noted lefty Donald Sutherland!?!?!?

175 yma o hyd  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:51:22am

re: #145 Eowyn2

Yeah - we did see them - and certainly that Dr Mads looks as Norwegian as possible.

(Not in a Viking sort of way, far too wimpy, but certainly Germanic!)

176 Mad Mullah  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:51:23am

Is this a surprise to anybody really?

From the very beginning of the current conflict, I would chuckle whenever I heard the latest death toll figures, because history has proven that the Palestinians have never told the truth when it comes to reporting casualties. Didn't the totally incompetent and amateurish MSM learn their lesson after the so-called Jenin "massacre" happened? Islamic terrorists live to kill innocent civilians, it is quite apparent that lying for these types of creatures is second nature to them.

Meanwhile there's all of these ignorant idiots in the press and friends of these Islamo-Nazis that are whining and moaning about some laughable "holocaust". By "holocaust" these moronic people really mean killing Hamas terrorists. In that case, I say let the "holocaust" continue.

177 tfc3rid  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:51:25am

re: #174 sattv4u2

Be the son of noted lefty Donald Sutherland!?!?!?

Not Keifer, what Jack Bauer would do...

178 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:51:39am

re: #173 Guanxi88

It is SO NOT the thing to do. Oy to the Vey!

179 tfc3rid  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:52:26am

re: #171 FurryOldGuyJeans

Even if one does the spin will be that we are, and yet doesn't matter because it improves our standing in the world, which is all that matters.

And as long as we improve our standing in the eyes of the world, the terrorists will never make another attempt again...

In fact, I think they have laid down their weapons...

180 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:52:28am

re: #136 Occasional Reader

You didn't notice the sinister air about him?

AHEM! While I did find what you said mildly amusing, I also find it blatant stereotyping.

Unless you are calling ME personally sinister, then it ain't so bad. ;)

181 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:53:14am

re: #177 tfc3rid

Not Keifer, what Jack Bauer would do...

oh ,,,,, be the star of a TV show? I don;'t see how THATS gonna help get info from a terrorist!

182 Golem Akbar  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:53:14am

I just started reading Hamas vs. Fatah by Jonathan Schazer (forward by Daniel Pipes). Excellent.

183 MJ  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:53:32am

re: #167 VegasRick

I'd like to piss on him.

Maybe MSNBC can team him up with Pat Buchanan and let them debate
"the Final Solution to the Jewish Question".

184 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:53:55am

re: #182 Golem Akbar

May both sides be victorious-a fight to the death!

185 smokefire  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:54:04am

Meanwhile there's all of these ignorant idiots in the press and friends of these Islamo-Nazis that are whining and moaning about some laughable "holocaust". By "holocaust" these moronic people really mean killing Hamas terrorists. In that case, I say let the "holocaust" continue.


You know for all of the people, IslamoNazi's, Neo Nazi's and the like that claim the Holocaustwas a myth. Why is it that they always use that term to describe other so called holocausts ?

186 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:54:12am

President Barack Obama's choice for spy chief, Dennis Blair, said Thursday that U.S. intelligence agencies should seek ways of working with Iran on issues of mutual interest, underscoring the new administration's interest in engagement with elements in the Islamic state.
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

While policymakers need to understand anti-American leaders, policies and actions in Iran, the intelligence community can also help policymakers identify and understand other leaders and political forces,


Why don't we just hand them a few Nukes. What the hell.

187 opinionated  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:54:14am

What made America unique at its inception was that it afforded its citizens Due Process.

To now extend that same privilege to violent foreign enemies -who would use our Due Process to destroy us -is uniquely insane.

188 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:54:38am

re: #148 yma o hyd

From that report you linked:

'call for a task force to look at closing the detention center in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, within the year;'

Oooohhh - that is bureaucracy-speak at its finest!
It means - they're going to set up a task force ... within the year ... which will look at ... (that means, not actually doing anything except jabber about it) ... the closing ...

Moonbats have a lot to learn - this does not mean the facility will be closed within the year.
But it does look good, energetic, and like he's actually doing something ...

It's not time to seethe.

189 DeafDog  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:54:43am

re: #137 WriterMom

OT: The most annoying little pischer just keeps frikking haunting me about a project that I am actually DOING A FAVOUR for him by helping him with it, and he keeps coming to my office and striking a pose at my doorway. I feel like saying DUDE! Not only are you young and obnoxious, but you are REALLY NOT MY TYPE.

AND even more annoying is that he is one of those idiot people who are TOO IMPORTANT TO WRITE OUT THEIR WHOLE NAME AT THE END OF AN E-MAIL. Like, oooh I don't have time to type out 6 whole letters...ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Put yourself in Fred's hands...you desrve it.

190 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:54:58am

re: #180 FurryOldGuyJeans

While I did find what you said mildly amusing, I also find it blatant stereotyping.

What stereotyping? It's the literal definition of the word. That doesn't necessarily imply that all you left-handed people are part of a conspiracy to fluoridate our water and contaminate our precious bodily fluids.

OR DOES IT?!

191 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:55:02am

re: #137 WriterMom

OT: The most annoying little pischer just keeps frikking haunting me about a project that I am actually DOING A FAVOUR for him by helping him with it, and he keeps coming to my office and striking a pose at my doorway. I feel like saying DUDE! Not only are you young and obnoxious, but you are REALLY NOT MY TYPE.

AND even more annoying is that he is one of those idiot people who are TOO IMPORTANT TO WRITE OUT THEIR WHOLE NAME AT THE END OF AN E-MAIL. Like, oooh I don't have time to type out 6 whole letters...ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Shut your door - preferably right in his face.

192 unreconstructed rebel  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:55:28am

So, I've now had to listen to two dickheads go on about, what with crude in the $30s, why isn't gasoline isn't $0.89/gal. No wonder Obama is President.

/what ever became of the cent sign?

193 opnion  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:55:47am

re: #169 WriterMom

You mean like kewl lap top computers?

Yeah, how else can they access their account at Kos? We are not barbarians

194 Pullus Iulius  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:55:51am

The doctor wished to remain unidentified, out of fear for his life.
Q: And doctors, too?
A: Yes, Hamas kills doctors, too.

195 dhg4  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:56:08am

The IDF is now disputing the 5-600 figure.

Despite a report by Lorenzo Cremonesi, a correspondent for Italy's Corriere della sera, that the number of Palestinians killed in Operation Cast Lead did not exceed five or six hundred, Israeli defense officials on Thursday said there were around 1,300 Palestinians killed during the fighting in Gaza and that a majority of them were Hamas operatives.

The IDF's Gaza Coordination and Liaison Administration has already compiled a list with 900 names of Palestinians killed during the operation, out of which 750 are believed to be Hamas operatives.

750 out of 900 though, would be 83%.

196 opinionated  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:56:25am

re: #186 Nevergiveup

working with Iran on issues of mutual interest

I'm not as smart as these guys. I rack my brain and can't think of a single issue where the US and Iran SHOULD have a mutual interest.

197 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:56:25am

re: #186 Nevergiveup

underscoring the new administration's interest in engagement with elements in the Islamic state

Don't you love that? "Elements". The happy fiction that there are totally reasonable, discrete parts of a thuggish Islamofascist regime, entirely seperable from the rest of it.

198 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:56:30am

re: #178 WriterMom

It is SO NOT the thing to do. Oy to the Vey!

I didn't mean to suggest it was, but clearly he thinks "Mr. Bean's Holiday" is source of suggestions.

199 Eowyn2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:57:06am

re: #71 Sharmuta

The ACLU file suit against TIZA


Wow!

After looking at the pic, I'm really glad my Catholic School Girl uniform was a cute navy blue jumper. Whew.

200 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:57:52am

re: #197 Occasional Reader

Well, apparently the trains do run on time in Iran!
/

201 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:58:18am

re: #189 DeafDog

WAAA. It won't let me open it because I'm in Canuckistan :(

202 Render  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:58:22am

re: #137 WriterMom

eek. I had no idea...

LIKE
THIS?,
R

203 unrealizedviewpoint  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 8:58:38am

re: #160 FurryOldGuyJeans

I am just highly skeptical of this sudden change in the policies that the ACLU has pursued. If it is an honest change, and I do hope it is, then I am glad for it and hope it become permanent.

Minnesota locals may be submitting numerous complaints to the Minnesota ACLU demanding action. Do these offices operate independently?

204 Eowyn2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:00:11am

re: #137 WriterMom

OT: The most annoying little pischer just keeps frikking haunting me about a project that I am actually DOING A FAVOUR for him by helping him with it, and he keeps coming to my office and striking a pose at my doorway. I feel like saying DUDE! Not only are you young and obnoxious, but you are REALLY NOT MY TYPE.

AND even more annoying is that he is one of those idiot people who are TOO IMPORTANT TO WRITE OUT THEIR WHOLE NAME AT THE END OF AN E-MAIL. Like, oooh I don't have time to type out 6 whole letters...ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

I'm guilty of that BUT, in all fairness, the business email address I have cannot possibly misconstrue who I am.

205 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:00:41am

re: #200 WriterMom

Well, apparently the trains do run on time in Iran!
/

In Islamic Republic of Iran, trains run on you!

206 Taqiyyotomist  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:00:57am

re: #63 maddogg

Hamas inflates the numbers in order to exploit victimhood, and the unblinking MSM print lies because it suits their sentiments. No need to check the facts. Besides, the MSM is once again and always a partner in propaganda. It isn't new, they covered up FDR's inability to walk, and JFK's dependence on drugs and his indiscretions. But let a Republican stub his toe and there will be a dozen cameras in his bathroom. The issue is the total lack of any reporting agency interested in telling the truth, not the fact that Hamas lies.

Bears repeating.

207 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:01:31am

re: #132 gymmom

I never understood how the ACLU twisted the protection of the right to practice religion unhindered by the government into no practicing of religion in public. The concept seems so simple and obvious.

The whole separation of church and state clause thingie that was invented out of whole cloth from the 1st Amendment's Establishment Clause. It all revolves around the prohibition of Congress being parsed that even passive acceptance or acknowledgment of religion is official government establishment of same. And it wasn't the ACLU that started this parsing, they just capitalized on already existing mangled legal precedence.

208 Eowyn2  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:01:34am

re: #197 Occasional Reader

Don't you love that? "Elements". The happy fiction that there are totally reasonable, discrete parts of a thuggish Islamofascist regime, entirely seperable from the rest of it.


Elementary my dear Rearder, the ROP isnt named the ROP for nuthin.

209 albusteve  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:01:34am

re: #172 smokefire

see Overnight thread Comment #1000, and comment 1124.

Breaking my balls.

I dont get the k-spot...I must be dense, sorry

210 Marvo76  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:01:51am

re: #186 Nevergiveup

President Barack Obama's choice for spy chief, Dennis Blair, said Thursday that U.S. intelligence agencies should seek ways of working with Iran on issues of mutual interest, underscoring the new administration's interest in engagement with elements in the Islamic state.
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

While policymakers need to understand anti-American leaders, policies and actions in Iran, the intelligence community can also help policymakers identify and understand other leaders and political forces,


Why don't we just hand them a few Nukes. What the hell.

exactly what mutual intrests do we have with them?

211 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:04:16am

re: #179 tfc3rid

And as long as we improve our standing in the eyes of the world, the terrorists will never make another attempt again...

In fact, I think they have laid down their weapons...

Didn't al Qaida already give a press announcement they are disbanding since O was elected and inaugurated. Why fight against His Wonderfulness?

212 Taqiyyotomist  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:07:55am

re: #118 FurryOldGuyJeans

(Looks around) Did the paradigm shift on Tuesday? This is so uncharacteristic of the ACLU as to almost make me think this is American Leftoid Taqqiya.

I wonder if the ACLU will defend all the conservatives in the (likely) event of Obama's domestic wiretapping and FBI-Flie gathering? This is the most uncharacteristic thing I've ever seen the ACLU take on. I would have guessed that they would have taken the case FOR the school.

213 nyc redneck  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:08:50am

re: #109 godfrey

Cool. There are plans online for making your own cigar-box guitar.

recycling at its best.
how fun.
i always loved making something from nothing.

214 looking closely  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:09:00am

re: #44 Spiny Norman

As long as one of those rats is still breathing, Ham-ass claims "victory".
Of course they would. Lies and wishful thinking are all they've got.

Does anyone expect them to say "Israel kicked our asses, while our senior leadership ran away like cowards"?

I think the issue is more complicated than that. At some level, most of the Hamas leadership escaped death, and Hamas hasn't been entirely dismantled, so in some sense, sure, Hamas "won" this conflict.

This fight hasn't put an end to smuggling from Egypt, and I don't think it will, even with whatever subsequent on-the-ground agreement is reached.

The question (and again, I think its still an open one) is to what extent "Cast lead" has hurt Hamas. I think the extent of the pro-Israel commentary in the press this time around, coupled with the extent of the anti-Hamas press in the Arab world really is a sign that something fundamental has changed here.

215 Taqiyyotomist  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:09:15am

re: #123 Eowyn2

Palestinian NUNS? Ha. Palestinian 'Bagged Martyrs'

Question: how come the female martyrs who normally wear the hefty bags have bilboards showing their faces? Is this something like the old Pashas who used to sutti their households and the only time the riff raff saw the wives was upon her trip to the pyre?

You can't rape a billboard.

216 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:12:08am

re: #186 Nevergiveup

President Barack Obama's choice for spy chief, Dennis Blair, said Thursday that U.S. intelligence agencies should seek ways of working with Iran on issues of mutual interest, underscoring the new administration's interest in engagement with elements in the Islamic state.
[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

While policymakers need to understand anti-American leaders, policies and actions in Iran, the intelligence community can also help policymakers identify and understand other leaders and political forces,

Why don't we just hand them a few Nukes. What the hell.

What "mutual interest" with Iran? Does the 0bama administration also want to "wipe Israel off the map"?
/I wouldn't put it past them.

217 Age Of Freedom  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:13:36am

Charles,

You should add the "Mainstream Media" tag to this topic.

218 Ron Shaw  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:13:56am

Wow, that's a shocker....NOT!

219 itellu3times  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:14:02am

Very disappointing. Israel marshalls all of this force, and fires all these munitions, and kills so few enemies? I am not impressed by any virtue in this at all. And I dare say, neither, presuming they know the truth, is Hamas.

220 debutaunt  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:14:44am

re: #6 Occasional Reader

Lies, filthy Zioinist Honco lies! Over eleventy billion Palestinian nuns and orphans were killed, representing over 173% of the population of Gaza.

OK mister. We're gonna need more than one proof of death link.

221 jcbunga  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:26:58am

Do they know that exaggerated means incorrect on the high side? They may not know this. It may not mean what they think it means. I'm just sayin'/

222 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:28:53am
223 MemeBuster_Italy  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 9:48:34am

Other passages in the original Corriere della Sera article ([Link: www.corriere.it...]
are very interesting. For example, how the article begins.
Here is my translation, followed by the original Italian:
"Go away, go away from here! Do you want the Israelis to kill us all? Do you want our kids to die under the bombs? Take away your weapons and rockets!", that is what many people in Gaza were yelling at Hamas and Islamic Jihad militants. The most corageous got organized and sealed the doors to their building and the access to rooftops. But the militants were not listening. "Traitors. Collaborators. Fatah spies. The Holy Warriors will punish you. And anyway you will all die with us. Fighting the Jews we will go to heaven, aren't you happy to die with us?" And with that they broke down doors and windows, positioned themselves on rooftops, in gardens, and using ambulances they would barricade themselves near hospitals, schools and UN buildings.

«Andatevene, andatevene via di qui! Volete che gli israeliani ci uccidano tutti? Volete veder morire sotto le bombe i nostri bambini? Portate via le vostre armi e i missili», gridavano in tanti tra gli abitanti della striscia di Gaza ai miliziani di Hamas e ai loro alleati della Jihad islamica. I più coraggiosi si erano organizzati e avevano sbarrato le porte di accesso ai loro cortili, inchiodato assi a quelle dei palazzi, bloccato in fretta e furia le scale per i tetti più alti. Ma per lo più la guerriglia non dava ascolto a nessuno. «Traditori. Collaborazionisti di Israele. Spie di Fatah, codardi. I soldati della guerra santa vi puniranno. E in ogni caso morirete tutti, come noi. Combattendo gli ebrei sionisti siamo tutti destinati al paradiso, non siete contenti di morire assieme?». E così, urlando furiosi, abbattevano porte e finestre, si nascondevano ai piani alti, negli orti, usavano le ambulanze, si barricavano vicino a ospedali, scuole, edifici dell’Onu.

Any more doubts about civilians being used as human shields?

224 DaChew  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 10:13:05am

Here is an official translation of a Hamas order to all Palestinian journalists:

To: All Journalhadis
From: Office of Hamas News Media Recycling
RE: Casualty Numbers

Please utilyze your library of official press release templates. Be sure to replace the word "Jenin" with the word "Gaza".

225 vaynela  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 10:13:14am

Three days ago Al Jazeera published a list of 209 children killed in Gaza. An analysis of the age and sex of these children (aged 18 and under) may shed light on the validity of the World Press view that that Israel killed these children presumably while innocently huddled at home with their families. If that were true, one would expect an even number of dead males and females. Of the 209 deaths, 59 were female and 150 were male. The odds of that distribution are less than one in a million if the likelihood of randomly killing a male was the same as killing a female. The analysis of 16-year old deaths shows 14 boys and 2 girls; 17-year olds shows 17 boys and 2 girls; 18 year-olds shows 19 males and 1 female. You can draw your own conclusions. The same analysis holds for yesterday’s Palestinian Center for Human Rights rundown of the numbers, with 1224 total deaths, including 280 children. Of the 944 adult deaths, only 111 were women, an exceedingly unlikely distribution if civilians were killed indiscriminately. These aberrations deserve some explanation before Israel is further pilloried for its wanton killing of innocent civilians.

226 itellu3times  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 10:16:09am

re: #225 vaynela

Outstanding.

227 Opinionated  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 10:17:17am

True. Even of unpleasant reading.

Why doesn't anybody dare say it? Israel Didn't Leave, It Lost

We know that Israel lost because Hamas set the terms: The rockets do not stop; Shalit stays where he is.

What would we be saying about Roosevelt and Churchill if they settled for a cease fire on Jan. 18, 1945, with the excuse that, hey, Hitler's supply lines have been damaged, but yes, he can still bomb London, and yes, the Jews are still in the camps. Even if it's only one Jew.

This war was supposed to re-establish Israel's deterrence. That was supposed to be the lesson. Instead, the lesson is that Israel quits before the rockets do.

[Link: www.jewishworldreview.com...]

228 pk  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 10:39:55am

Excellent analysis Vaynella! I posted something similar about the Al Jazeera lists here a few days back. It*s also worth noting a) that many of the "children" are 18 and therefore technically adults. There was a concentration of 18-year-old males on the first day - presumably Hamas "police" (i.e. SS) graduates at those passing-out parades which the IAF targeted. b) The male-female ratio is about 50:50 up to 10 or 11, after which the proportion of males starts to rise exponentially. This would certainly seem to indicate that Hamas were (ab)using teenage boys as combatants (child soldiers, cannon fodder, call them what you will) c) The Al Jazeera list was up till 9th January i.e. one week of air campaign (where one might expect a more equal distribution) and about 6 days of ground combat. I'm sure that the proportion of teenage males deaths will have risen considerably by the ceasefire at the end of the third week.

229 Digital Display  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 10:55:59am

re: #163 WriterMom

It's the leaning on the door post, with the hands folded and one leg over the other thing that is so wanker-ish it's insane.


Kind of that Bill lunberg in Office Space? Totally creep-out

230 Tazzerman  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 11:20:44am

It should come as no shock to anyone. The arabs have NEVER reported anything from a war truthfully. Look back at the 67 and 73 wars. Shoot, they don't even report the truth to themselves!

231 norar  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 2:56:06pm

Obviously the Paleo terrorists learned lesson of Jenin much better than MSM. They don't exagerate casulties as much as then, but MSM still report uncritically whatever story the Paleo feed them. The question is: Is the collecttive IQ of MSM in a double digits, or are they just plain Jew-haters.

232 Perplexed  Thu, Jan 22, 2009 4:43:33pm
“The number of deceased stands at no more than 500 to 600. Most of them are youths between the ages of 17 to 23 who were recruited to the ranks of Hamas, who sent them to the slaughter,” according to the newspaper article. The doctor wished to remain unidentified, out of fear for his life.

Cannon fodder by any other name...


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