Video: Reinstated Bishop a Holocaust Denier - Update: Also a Truther

Religion • Views: 3,762

This is a disgrace. Pope Benedict should rescind the reinstatement of Bishop Richard Williamson.

JERUSALEM (AFP) — Israel’s Yad Vashem Holocaust memorial and the Simon Wiesenthal Centre on Sunday slammed a Holocaust-denying English bishop whose ex-communication has been cancelled by Pope Benedict XVI.

“It is scandalous that someone of this stature in the Church denies the Holocaust,” the institution said in a statement, referring to Bishop Richard Williamson who has publicly denied the murder of six million Jews during World War II.

“Denial of the Holocaust not only insults the survivors, memory of the victims and the righteous among the nations who risked their lives to rescue the Jews, it is a brutal attack on truth,” Yad Vashem said.

“What kind of message is this sending regarding the Church’s attitude toward the Holocaust?”

Just in case you might be tempted to believe the media are exaggerating Williamson’s Holocaust denial, here’s video:

Youtube Video

(Hat tip: NY Nana.)

UPDATE at 1/25/09 12:10:04 pm:

Bishop Williamson is also a 9/11 Troofer.

Williamson supports conspiracy theories regarding the assassination of President Kennedy and the collapse of the Twin Towers, denying that the latter were terrorist attacks but were instead staged by the U.S. government.

UPDATE at 1/25/09 12:32:57 pm:

To clarify a point: Williamson has not been reinstated as a Catholic bishop, he’s been “un-excommunicated,” which allows him to receive communion in the Catholic church. And it’s still wrong.

Jump to bottom

1263 comments
1 astronmr20  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 11:57:46am

Sick.

2 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 11:58:55am

I am reminded of Pope John Paul II who as a young man carried a polish Jewish girl through the snow. He carried her to safety.

The Church has gone a long way in the wrong direction since he died

3 vxbush  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 11:59:02am

Oy.

4 astronmr20  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 11:59:07am

That's one of the most terrifying videos I have ever seen.

5 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:00:05pm

Coughlinite trooferism

6 Wishing  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:00:19pm

Antisemitism, alive and well.
Sigh.
It aint just the mohammedans.

7 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:01:14pm

The Catholic church abandoned anything even remotely resembling moral authority long ago.

8 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:01:27pm

re: #2 Shug

I am reminded of Pope John Paul II who as a young man carried a polish Jewish girl through the snow. He carried her to safety.

The Church has gone a long way in the wrong direction since he died


Here is a link to that story.

From rescuers to deniers in a few years.

what a shame

9 doppelganglander  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:01:35pm

What was he excommunicated for in the first place?

10 itellu3times  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:02:11pm

But did he renounce the position, to gain the reinstatement?

And then, did he, under his breath, whisper, "... but they still rule"?

/

11 nyc redneck  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:02:24pm

people who deny the holocaust, in the face of all the irrefutable evidence that it happened, are just jew haters. plain and simple.
and this is their way of expressing it.
they are shameful and quite cowardly.

12 Ozark Mountain Daredevil  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:03:08pm

I wonder if this disgraceful POS realizes were hundreds of Polish and other Priests that also died in the Nazi concentration camps.

13 baconeatingkaffir  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:03:30pm

The world really has gone nuts! It seems like the Catholic church leadership is going the way of big business!

14 Wishing  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:03:44pm

re: #9 doppelganglander

What was he excommunicated for in the first place?

If it is the group I am remembering, they self-ordained, without authority from the Pope, and I do not recall which pope. Benedict is fond of hardliner Catholics, was one himself.

15 BryanS  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:03:46pm

This came up when I posted on the related topic yesterday, bu I do not understand why the church can put someone like this in a position of trust. A vatican representative said this this bishop's statements are lies, but not heretical, so that no action could be taken to remove him. I still do not understand why not--even taking the Christian notion of forgiveness into account.

16 WriterMom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:04:08pm

I don't care if he is a member of the clergy-he's a mother-F&cking Jew hating Holocaust denier.

17 opnion  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:04:08pm

Should a GERMAN Pope be reinstating this guy? It's bad enough, but looks really bad because of the Pope's ethnicity.

18 Abu Al-Poopypants  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:04:14pm

What a f***ing dick.

19 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:04:21pm

re: #9 doppelganglander

What was he excommunicated for in the first place?

For this

20 WriterMom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:04:44pm

SHAME SHAME SHAME

HITLER IS LAUGHING FROM HIS GRAVE

21 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:04:55pm

Perfect moonbat material. I reject your reality and insert my own. Disregard mountains of evidence, film by the Allies, documents from the death camps, and Hitlers own writings. People like this used to be sent away to insane asylums as delusional.

22 Macker  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:05:11pm

What astronmr20 said.

23 Jack Reacher  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:05:14pm

He uses a lot of qualifiers and weasel-words, apparently to give himself an out. Many in the American media would have left it at that; kudos to the interviewer for politely but firmly insisting he clarify and complete his "reasoning," such as it is. That said, watching this video leaves me with the same expression on my face as when I discover a "gift" one of the cats has left on the carpet.

24 astronmr20  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:05:25pm

He actually says "quote- unquote holocaust" in the video.

So much for the Catholic Church. As a Christian myself, I know full well why so many people are reviled by organized religion (despite the good they do perform for the needy around the world).

25 WriterMom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:05:38pm

What a bastard turd-it is pathetic that the Church is letting him wear robes.

26 Wishing  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:05:46pm

re: #21 maddogg

Perfect moonbat material. I reject your reality and insert my own. Disregard mountains of evidence, film by the Allies, documents from the death camps, and Hitlers own writings. People like this used to be sent away to insane asylums as delusional.

Hitler was a bit delusional too. Look what he did with it.

27 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:06:00pm

He was excommunicated because his consecration as a bishop was unauthorized by the Vatican.

28 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:07:02pm

re: #26 Wishing

Hitler was a bit delusional too. Look what he did with it.

Yes, and faced with the hard reality of Allied firepower at his doorstep, he handled it by checking out.

29 astronmr20  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:07:04pm

re: #25 WriterMom

What a bastard turd-it is pathetic that the Church is letting him wear robes.

I believe the term you are looking for is "bass-turd."

30 Macker  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:07:05pm

re: #27 Charles

So who consecrated him? Was that fellow also excommunicated?

/Not a Catholic

31 WriterMom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:07:36pm

'people who have judged by the evidence'

Pathetic.

32 kcladderman  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:08:02pm

As I said at the end of the last thread. I wish this would not have happened it is a very sad day for my Church. Boy I miss John Paul II more today than yesterday. On behalf on my parish I apologize to Jews everywhere and especialy to those who were lost and lost loved ones in the Holocaust.

33 yesandno  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:08:11pm

This makes reference to the original charge that got him excommunicated:

[Link: www.google.com...]

His excommunication was dealing with another matter. Not sure it goes further then that.

34 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:08:22pm

re: #27 Charles

He was excommunicated because his consecration as a bishop was unauthorized by the Vatican.

I stand corrected. Something about a breakaway group of fundamentalist Catholics comes to mind, I have to refresh my memory.

35 WriterMom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:08:24pm

This is a question of historical truth? Historial exploitation. Guilt complex?

I get it now-we Jews did it for the money!

36 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:08:30pm

He's also a Troofer.

Williamson supports conspiracy theories regarding the assassination of President Kennedy and the collapse of the Twin Towers, denying that the latter were terrorist attacks but were instead staged by the U.S. government.

37 solomonpanting  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:08:44pm

I believe there were no gas chambers ... I think that 200,000 to 300,000 Jews perished in Nazi concentration camps ... but none of them by gas chambers.

Ho-kay.

38 WriterMom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:09:30pm

re: #36 Charles

Charming.

39 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:09:45pm

re: #36 Charles

At least his sickness is consistant.

40 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:10:06pm

re: #9 doppelganglander

What was he excommunicated for in the first place?

He was made Bishop without Papal approval by a schismatic Cardinal.

41 opnion  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:10:13pm

re: #37 solomonpanting

I believe there were no gas chambers ... I think that 200,000 to 300,000 Jews perished in Nazi concentration camps ... but none of them by gas chambers.

Ho-kay.


They must have just held their breath & the rest just hid somewhere.
What a prank!

42 vxbush  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:10:15pm

re: #36 Charles

He's also a Troofer.

Did we have conspiracy theorists before the 1960's? If we did, I have never heard of them. What is it in the modern day that brings these people out?

43 Abu Al-Poopypants  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:10:29pm

My sister's in-laws were Polish Catholics who were held in the concentration camps and bore the same kind of tattoos as the Jews, but they weren't killed. The men were used for laborers to deal with the Jewish corpses. I guess they were making it up, according to this a-hole.

44 WriterMom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:11:30pm

Charles, check this out.

Jews Aiming for World Domination

45 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:11:33pm

re: #27 Charles

He was excommunicated because his consecration as a bishop was unauthorized by the Vatican.

So he's not a real bishop? If he one of the followers of the late Cardinal Lefebvre (SSPX)?

46 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:11:35pm

What the fuck is this Pope thinking? Unbelievable.

47 Abu Al-Poopypants  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:11:56pm

re: #36 Charles

He's also a Troofer.

Does he hold any unconventional viewpoints w.r.t. certain government-issued documents from the state of Hawaii in the early 1960s?

48 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:12:02pm

re: #34 Thanos

Yes, here's the connection - LePen:

Marcel-François Lefebvre (November 29, 1905 – March 25, 1991), better known as Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, was a French Roman Catholic archbishop. Following a career as an Apostolic Delegate for West Africa and Superior General of the Holy Ghost Fathers, he took the lead in opposing the changes within the Church associated with the Second Vatican Council.

In 1970, Lefebvre founded the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), which is still the world's largest Traditionalist Catholic priestly society. In 1988, against the orders of Pope John Paul II, Lefebvre consecrated four bishops to continue his work with the SSPX. The Holy See issued a statement that Lefebvre had thereby incurred the automatic excommunication that canon law[1] applies for such actions. His supporters and some canonists deny this. The Holy See remitted the excommunication of the four bishops with a decree of 21 January 2009.[2]

...
Political positions espoused by Archbishop Lefebvre included the following:

Condemnation of the 1789 French Revolution, and what he called its "Masonic and anti-Catholic principles".[1] His protégé, Bishop Richard Williamson, has reported that, as a supporter of absolutist monarchy, he spoke approvingly of the stance of Henri, Comte de Chambord during the constitutional wrangles in the early days of the French Third Republic.
Support for the "Catholic order" of the authoritarian French Vichy régime (1940-1944), which collaborated with Nazi Germany and whose leader, Philippe Pétain, was later sentenced to death as a traitor.[83][84]
Support for other fascist or authoritarian governments. In 1976, Lefebvre praised the regimes of Jorge Videla in Argentina and Augusto Pinochet in Chile, and in 1985 he spoke approvingly of the governments of Francisco Franco of Spain and Antonio Salazar of Portugal, noting that their neutrality in World War II had spared their peoples, including their Jewish populations, the suffering of the War.
Denied the existence of the Holocaust.
Support for the French far-right leader Jean-Marie le Pen. In 1985, the French periodical Présent quoted Lefebvre as endorsing Le Pen, on the grounds that he was the only leading French politician who was clearly opposed to abortion.
Opposition to Muslim immigration into Europe. In 1990, Lefebvre was convicted in a French court and sentenced to pay a fine of 5,000 francs when he stated in this connection that "it is your wives, your daughters, your children who will be kidnapped and dragged off to a certain kind of places as they exist in Casablanca".[85]

49 Shay4l  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:12:05pm

The camps are physically still there, the films exist, the diaries, newspaper articles, etc. Why do these people refuse reality?

Just being anti-semitic can't be the whole reason. He can acknowledge the holocaust and still have hatred in his heart. What does he gain from this?

50 vagabond trader  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:12:17pm

re: #44 WriterMom

Too late!

/sarc

51 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:12:53pm

re: #44 WriterMom

Charles, check this out.

Jews Aiming for World Domination

Have they joined forces with the Freemasons?

52 prince of dorkness  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:13:05pm

As a Catholic myself I find this shameful. I only hope that this bishop has recanted and repented.

53 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:13:29pm

Smart money says this "bishop" is also a fan of Nick Griffen and VB.

54 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:13:43pm

re: #33 yesandno

This makes reference to the original charge that got him excommunicated:

[Link: www.google.com...]

His excommunication was dealing with another matter. Not sure it goes further then that.

Did you notice this little AP stinkbomb in the article you linked?

...Richard Williamson and three other bishops punished for having been consecrated without papal consent 20 years ago by the late French conservative Archbishop Marcel Lefevbre.

If Lefevbre was conservative, I'm a satanist AND atheist.

55 pat  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:13:54pm

Liberation Theology. Liberation from Civilization.

56 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:14:17pm

re: #42 vxbush

Did we have conspiracy theorists before the 1960's? If we did, I have never heard of them. What is it in the modern day that brings these people out?

Mass communication - makes it possible for isolated nuts to join forces and impress other flakes etc.

57 lawhawk  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:14:30pm

I weep for the future of the Church.
I weep for the future of Europe.
I worry deeply for the future of world Jewry, for their existence continues to be threatened on all sides.

The slouching towards moral equivalence and historical revisionism continues apace. Scratch that. It's hurtling ever faster as the collective memory of these institutions recedes into the abyss.

Holocaust revisionism is de rigueur. It's embraced more and more every day, and who among the Righteous are standing up against this? And why is Holocaust revisionism back in fashion? Because there are those who while denying the Holocaust ever occurred, would love to be able to finish the job and/or let the Arabs finish the job for them. The sickening moral equivalence opens up that avenue of attack and undermines Israel and its ability to defend itself from attack by genocidal terrorists.

For that silence, I weep.

58 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:14:49pm

re: #44 WriterMom

Charles, check this out.

Jews Aiming for World Domination

So, he is SSPX. Figures. Lefebrve believed that the Second Vatican Council was the work of the devil, and didn't recognize any of the reforms that came out of it.

59 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:14:52pm

re: #30 Macker

He and some other were excommunicated from the catholic church in the 70's for being part of the Society of Saint Pius X.

Support for the Vichy government (1940-1944). Lefebvre spoke approvingly of the "Catholic order of Pétain", referring to the Vichy head of state Philippe Pétain, who was later sentenced to death as a traitor
...
Support for the Front National political party and its leader, Jean-Marie le Pen, who is on the far right of the political spectrum.
...
In the United States, the Society has been accused of spreading allegedly fascist, un-American political ideas, and undermining American patriotism.[
....
n February 2008, St. Mary's Academy, a school in Kansas affiliated with the SSPX, refused to allow a woman referee to officiate at a high-school basketball game in which St. Mary's was participating, reportedly on the grounds that it was not appropriate for a woman to be in a position of authority over male students.

The Vatican has decided that they are fine folks and yesterday reinstated them.

60 vxbush  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:15:05pm

re: #56 Jimmah

Mass communication - makes it possible for isolated nuts to join forces and impress other flakes etc.

I guess, but jiminy. Sometimes I think it would be worth it to go back so these folks would stay isolated.

61 vagabond trader  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:15:23pm

Amazing how all the masks are slipping. Good,I like clarity.A pox on him and all the others Jew haters.

62 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:15:29pm

re: #36 Charles

They are also Le Penn supporters. Feh!

63 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:15:41pm

re: #57 lawhawk

I weep for the future of the Church.
I weep for the future of Europe.
I worry deeply for the future of world Jewry, for their existence continues to be threatened on all sides.

The slouching towards moral equivalence and historical revisionism continues apace. Scratch that. It's hurtling ever faster as the collective memory of these institutions recedes into the abyss.

Holocaust revisionism is de rigueur. It's embraced more and more every day, and who among the Righteous are standing up against this? And why is Holocaust revisionism back in fashion? Because there are those who while denying the Holocaust ever occurred, would love to be able to finish the job and/or let the Arabs finish the job for them. The sickening moral equivalence opens up that avenue of attack and undermines Israel and its ability to defend itself from attack by genocidal terrorists.

For that silence, I weep.

I prefer to collect equipment and keep my powder dry.

64 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:16:27pm

Disgusting. These religious people are mentally deranged. i am proud to be a non believer and a more sane person.

65 Abu Al-Poopypants  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:16:40pm

re: #53 Thanos

Smart money says this "bishop" is also a fan of Nick Griffen and VB.

Hey, what's wrong with liking VB?

I guess maybe you meant something different.

66 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:17:09pm

re: #44 WriterMom

Ugh!

67 carefulnow  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:17:09pm

re: #6 Wishing

But listen how he says it isn't antisemitism if it's true!

Sickening beyond belief.

68 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:17:28pm

re: #42 vxbush

Did we have conspiracy theorists before the 1960's? If we did, I have never heard of them. What is it in the modern day that brings these people out?

Lincoln was allowed to be assassinated by Booth so Edward Stanton could take over is one rather prominent conspiracy theory still running rampant.

Corollaries to the above are that it actually wasn't Booth, that the person shot in the barn really wasn't Booth, and that Lincoln didn't die because he was tired of serving so he voluntarily stepped down after being slightly wounded at Ford's Theater.

69 The Shadow Do  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:17:40pm

re: #42 vxbush

Did we have conspiracy theorists before the 1960's? If we did, I have never heard of them. What is it in the modern day that brings these people out?

FDR allowed Pearl Harbor.

JFK (insert conspiracy theory here)

No doubt there are more, these are just the most obvious

70 opnion  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:17:46pm

I went through Catholic education & a lot was Bizarre, most in a humorous way.
I do not recall any anti Jewish stuff.

71 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:18:24pm

Scottish group accused of hijacking Holocaust Memorial Day

A Scottish group is hosting what it claims to be a Holocaust Memorial Day commemoration on Sunday along with a Hamas supporter who justifies suicide bombings.

The Scottish Palestine Solidarity Campaign, an anti-Israel fringe group, is hosting an event titled "Resistance to Genocide and Ethnic Cleaning: from Europe in the 1940s to the Middle East Today" to mark the UK's Holocaust Memorial Day.

Speaking at the event, to be held at the University of Glasgow and a Scottish Arts Council and National Lottery-funded venue in Edinburgh called Out of the Blue, is Azzam Tamimi, a Hamas supporter who calls for the destruction of Israel.

/more bad craziness

72 vxbush  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:18:28pm

re: #68 FurryOldGuyJeans

Lincoln was allowed to be assassinated by Booth so Edward Stanton could take over is one rather prominent conspiracy theory still running rampant.

Corollaries to the above are that it actually wasn't Booth, that the person shot in the barn really wasn't Booth, and that Lincoln didn't die because he was tired of serving so he voluntarily stepped down after being slightly wounded at Ford's Theater.

Really?!? Whoa. I missed that in US history class.

73 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:18:29pm

re: #70 opnion

I never encountered it in church either.

74 kcladderman  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:18:58pm

re: #64 winston06

Disgusting. These religious people are mentally deranged. i am proud to be a non believer and a more sane person.

It is not his religion that is the problem.

75 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:19:02pm

re: #69 The Shadow Do

FDR allowed Pearl Harbor.

JFK (insert conspiracy theory here)

No doubt there are more, these are just the most obvious

And each country has their own specific crop of shite conspiracies.

76 wahabicorridor  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:19:38pm

Wait. Based on comments posted on the overnight thread, it is my understanding that the only result of the Pope's action is that these men will once again be allowed to receive communion.

?

I'm so sroyy Father Neuhaus has passed. I would love to hear what he would have said.

77 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:19:48pm

re: #72 vxbush

Really?!? Whoa. I missed that in US history class.

People want to believe the craziest shite. ;)

78 opnion  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:20:11pm

re: #73 Killgore Trout

I never encountered it in church either.

The times they are a changin.

79 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:20:24pm

His 9-11 statements....

Youtube Video
80 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:20:31pm

re: #44 WriterMom

Jews Aiming for World Domination

And here I thought an impending Christian theocracy was the clear and present threat.

/it's all so confusing

81 lawhawk  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:20:36pm

re: #68 FurryOldGuyJeans

Edwin Stanton. And it's interesting to read how he ordered detention of those who were involved in the assassination of President Lincoln. He actually tortured those people:

Stanton ordered an unusual form of isolation for the eight suspects. He ordered eight heavy canvas hoods made, padded one-inch thick with cotton, with one small hole for eating, no opening for eyes or ears. Stanton ordered that the bags be worn by the seven men day and night as a preventive to conversation. Hood number eight was never used on Mrs. Surratt, the owner of the boarding house where the conspirators had laid their plans, Stanton knew the furor of indignation that would cause. A ball of extra cotton padding covered the eyes so that there was painful pressure on the closed lids. No baths or washing of any kind were allowed, and during the hot breathless weeks of the trial the prisoners' faces became more swollen and bloated by the day, and even the prison doctor began to fear for the conspirators' sanity inside those heavy hoods laced so tight around their necks. But Stanton would not allow them to be removed, nor the rigid wrist irons, nor the anklets, each of which was connected to an iron ball weighing seventy-five pounds.
82 S'latch  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:20:47pm

What a tendentious ass.

83 Shay4l  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:20:59pm

Upon further review- Looks like he's a fascist-lover and Jew-hater, all right.

84 Wishing  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:21:06pm

This guy was appointed bishop by another guy who the Vatican had issues with. They belonged to the Society of Pius X, an organization that did not have the approval of the Vatican.
Pius X was opposed to modernism.

85 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:21:11pm

re: #37 solomonpanting

I believe there were no gas chambers ... I think that 200,000 to 300,000 Jews perished in Nazi concentration camps ... but none of them by gas chambers.

Un-fricking-believable!

86 doppelganglander  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:21:13pm

re: #59 Killgore Trout

The Vatican has decided that they are fine folks and yesterday reinstated them.

That's insane. What is the pope smoking?

87 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:21:58pm

Ratzinger certainly can't deny knowledge in depth of this:

On May 5, 1988, Lefebvre signed an agreement with Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger (now Pope Benedict XVI) to regularise the situation of the Society of St Pius X. The Cardinal agreed that one bishop would be consecrated for the Society.[119] However, Lefebvre came to the view that he was obliged both to reject that arrangement and to ordain a successor, if necessary without papal approval.[120] The Pope appealed to him not to proceed in "a schismatic act", warning of "theological and canonical consequences".[121]

88 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:22:03pm

re: #74 kcladderman

It is not his religion that is the problem.

Actually it is HIS religion that is the problem, his version of it. Whackadoo beliefs like that shouldn't be an automatic smear on other, more sane, believers, though.

89 Sharmuta  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:22:10pm

Way to go on the hat tip, Nana!

90 thegreengiant  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:22:20pm

he has not been renstated as a bishop he was just taken out of excommunication along with numerous other people who were also appointed bishops during the same incident that was never recognized by the catholic church

91 Babydoc97  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:23:04pm

As a conservative catholic, I shudder at the thought that this so-called Bishop is being re-instated. His Jew-hatred is horrid enough, but to cap that ice cream sundae with the cherry of 9/11 trooferism makes me absolutely nauseous.

All I can say is God is not mocked, and He will judge this so-called Bishop in His own due time. The truly sad thing is how people like this do so much damage to the true message of faith. (Killgore's opinions re: religion notwithstanding...:p)

92 opnion  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:23:07pm

re: #74 kcladderman

It is not his religion that is the problem.

Then you don't bring him back without getting his brain overhauled.
I do have to say that I know lots of Catholics & I am as well, & I don't know any anti Semites much less Holocaust deniers. This looks to me like a real European thing in the Church.

93 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:23:11pm

If the bishops were consecrated by an SSPX bishop in the first place, I don't see how they could be "reinstated", since they were never "instated" (sorry) in the first. As a Catholic, I am very troubled by this.

94 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:23:11pm

re: #81 lawhawk

He certainly did a lot AFTER the fact to foster belief in conspiracy BEFORE the fact.

95 Dustyvet  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:23:18pm

re: #84 Wishing

This guy was appointed bishop by another guy who the Vatican had issues with. They belonged to the Society of Pius X, an organization that did not have the approval of the Vatican.
Pius X was opposed to modernism.

Relations between the Society and the Holy See have been tense, but dialogue between the two sides is ongoing. In 1988, the Holy See declared that the six bishops who had participated, against the orders of Pope John Paul II, in the Ecône consecrations had incurred excommunication. This excommunication was remitted in January 2009 for the four surviving bishops by a decree of the Congregation for Bishops, putting an end, from that day on, to the legal effect of the previous declaration and expressing the hope that all the members of the Society would speedily follow it up by returning to full communion with the Church.

96 notutopia  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:23:41pm

Agree. This man is a disgrace to wear any role of the Vatican.
He was excommunicated because his consecration as a bishop was unauthorized by the Vatican.
Who consecrated him as a bishop to begin with?

97 Wishing  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:24:12pm

re: #80 Killian Bundy

And here I thought an impending Christian theocracy was the clear and present threat.

/it's all so confusing

The funny part is...the Christians are expecting the return/theocracy of Jesus...the Jew. lolol

98 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:24:38pm

re: #92 opnion

and then there's Pat Buchanan

99 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:24:47pm

re: #76 wahabicorridor

Wait. Based on comments posted on the overnight thread, it is my understanding that the only result of the Pope's action is that these men will once again be allowed to receive communion.

?

I'm so sroyy Father Neuhaus has passed. I would love to hear what he would have said.

Yes, Fr. Neuhaus would have something to say about this.

100 yesandno  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:25:04pm

re: #54 FurryOldGuyJeans

If Lefevbre was conservative, I'm a satanist AND atheist.

No...kind of rushed it. However, if lack of hate were a condition for membership in a religious group, most religions would be sparsely membered....

Don't get me wrong, he shouldn't be allowed to be called Bishop, celebrate mass, whatever. But ex-communication was a personal edict to deny HIM the relationship all Catholics seek with God--communion and its soul saving aspects. I don't know that the Pope was seeking to support his hate as much as give him a vehicle for asking for forgiveness. I could be wrong as I am not that learned in this area.

The man is a man, and God will judge him accordingly.

101 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:25:19pm

re: #96 notutopia

Agree. This man is a disgrace to wear any role of the Vatican.
He was excommunicated because his consecration as a bishop was unauthorized by the Vatican.
Who consecrated him as a bishop to begin with?

LeFebre, another holocaust denying LePen supporter.

102 jhrhv  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:25:43pm

So with the Church these days Holocaust denial is okay, child molestation pretty much an excepted norm, Jew hatred from the likes of Rev. Wright becoming more normal, troofers among their ranks. Somehow I don't think this what Jesus had in mind. The Church like the UN is becoming exactly the opposite of what it was meant to be. Sad days.

103 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:25:48pm

Bishop Williamson is an ass. He is a foolish ignorant ass.

104 carefulnow  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:26:08pm

re: #15 BryanS

That sounds like a lawyer's response. What ever happened to the 9th commandment?

105 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:26:09pm

re: #96 notutopia

Agree. This man is a disgrace to wear any role of the Vatican.
He was excommunicated because his consecration as a bishop was unauthorized by the Vatican.
Who consecrated him as a bishop to begin with?

Probably Cardinal Lefebrve (SSPX) himself.

106 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:26:15pm

I couldn't watch this video all the way through. Stopped watching when the stupid bastard was going on about chimneys. People like him make me sick.

107 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:26:22pm

re: #96 notutopia

Agree. This man is a disgrace to wear any role of the Vatican.
He was excommunicated because his consecration as a bishop was unauthorized by the Vatican.
Who consecrated him as a bishop to begin with?

The late French conservative schismatic Archbishop Marcel Lefevbre. I was wrong earlier about his being a Cardinal.

AP wrote conservative, BLECH!

108 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:26:33pm

Whoops, the link

Marcel LeFebvre

109 Wishing  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:26:51pm

The other funny thing about that video is that he is wearing a yarmulke.
LOLOLOL

110 opnion  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:27:00pm

re: #98 Thanos

and then there's Pat Buchanan

I caught Buchanon on McLaughlin last night. His pro Hamas, Israeli hatred is now psychotic.

111 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:27:01pm

re: #80 Killian Bundy

And here I thought an impending Christian theocracy was the clear and present threat.

/it's all so confusing

You and me both. Don't forget the Caliphate.

What we need is a Global Domination BCS.

112 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:27:18pm

re: #100 yesandno

No...kind of rushed it. However, if lack of hate were a condition for membership in a religious group, most religions would be sparsely membered....

Don't get me wrong, he shouldn't be allowed to be called Bishop, celebrate mass, whatever. But ex-communication was a personal edict to deny HIM the relationship all Catholics seek with God--communion and its soul saving aspects. I don't know that the Pope was seeking to support his hate as much as give him a vehicle for asking for forgiveness. I could be wrong as I am not that learned in this area.

The man is a man, and God will judge him accordingly.

I was just about to write something similar.
This nutcase has not been reinstated as a Bishop; he is just able to make confession and partake of the Eucharist.

113 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:27:20pm

re: #79 Killgore Trout

I 'm listening to this asshole and just shaking my head. He's preaching like he is an expert on the twin towers. What a tool.

114 Dustyvet  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:27:28pm

re: #104 carefulnow

That sounds like a lawyer's response. What ever happened to the 9th commandment?

Void where prohibited by law?

115 rwmofo  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:27:39pm

The sad thing is that this guy has followers who will stick with him and people with nefarious intentions will use his words as additional fuel for their motives.

If he weren't in a position of authority, he could easily be written off and ignored. This is further proof that dangerous people can be charming. See Ted Bundy for another example.

116 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:28:10pm
117 BryanS  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:28:22pm

re: #104 carefulnow

That sounds like a lawyer's response. What ever happened to the 9th commandment?

Apparently churches these days have the need to employ fleets of lawyers.

118 vagabond trader  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:28:57pm

re: #110 opnion

He sounds like an old drunk/wetbrain.

119 lifeofthemind  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:29:04pm

Chickens or mice running around in circles while the wolf watches laughing.

120 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:29:13pm

re: #97 Wishing

The funny part is...the Christians are expecting the return/theocracy of Jesus...the Jew. lolol

As a Christian, I have no problem with the FACT that Jesus was born, raised, and lived as a Jew. According to Christians, he's also the literal Son of God. Hence the basic disconnect from Judaism, the parent belief system.

121 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:29:20pm

re: #102 jhrhv

So with the Church these days Holocaust denial is okay, child molestation pretty much an excepted norm, Jew hatred from the likes of Rev. Wright becoming more normal, troofers among their ranks. Somehow I don't think this what Jesus had in mind. The Church like the UN is becoming exactly the opposite of what it was meant to be. Sad days.

Please be careful with the hyperbole. Child molestation is NOT an accepted norm. Its being concealed was a horrible crime, but it certainly was NOT acceptable.

122 opnion  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:29:23pm

re: #102 jhrhv

So with the Church these days Holocaust denial is okay, child molestation pretty much an excepted norm, Jew hatred from the likes of Rev. Wright becoming more normal, troofers among their ranks. Somehow I don't think this what Jesus had in mind. The Church like the UN is becoming exactly the opposite of what it was meant to be. Sad days.

Sadly, organized religion has a lot to do with wealth & control. There are still good guys in the clergy, but they don't seem to get anywhere

123 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:29:40pm

re: #102 jhrhv

This is nothing new in the history of the Catholic Church, sadly.

124 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:29:49pm

re: #74 kcladderman

it is part of the problem. His stupid religion has blinded him. Especially catholics in Europe. They have been very anti-semitic

125 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:30:01pm

Does the wacky bishop also demand to see Jesus' nirth certifikit ?

126 opnion  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:30:08pm

re: #118 vagabond trader

He sounds like an old drunk/wetbrain.

goofy as a June bug

127 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:30:09pm

re: #123 FurryOldGuyJeans

This is nothing new in the history of the Catholic Church, sadly.

totally agreed

128 BryanS  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:30:24pm

re: #110 opnion

I caught Buchanon on McLaughlin last night. His pro Hamas, Israeli hatred is now psychotic.

re: #98 Thanos

and then there's Pat Buchanan

Do we conservatives still have to claim Buchanan as one of ours? I wish he didn't fill the role of "conservative" on various opinion panels.

129 prince of dorkness  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:30:30pm

My daughter just did a book report on Lola Rein, a Polish Holocaust survivor. My 10 year old has a better grasp of history than this douche-bag! I guess it's true, there are none so blind as those who will not see! All the evidence, pictures, eyewitness accounts, bodies... I guess you really have to HATE Jewish people to be able to deny what is so freaking undeniable!

130 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:30:39pm
131 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:30:56pm

These european Catholics aided Hitler during holocaust. He's not so different

132 wahabicorridor  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:31:06pm

Well, apparently, Pope Ben is trying to bring the whole schismatic society back into the fold - if they learn their lesson.

Or something.

From Catholic News Service - (my linky button disappeared - hence the sloppiness)

[Link: www.catholicnews.com...]

133 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:31:10pm

re: #125 Shug

Does the wacky bishop also demand to see Jesus' nirth certifikit ?

For some reason I doubt he would have denied the Messiah-King.

134 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:31:35pm

This moron might have been smoking something horrible too. LoL

135 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:31:36pm

re: #133 FurryOldGuyJeans

For some reason I doubt he would have denied the Messiah-King.

He wouldn't have been reinstated if he had.

136 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:31:42pm

Ironically, Marcel Lefebrve's father died at the Sonnenberg concentration camp (from Wiki):

Marcel Lefebvre was born in Tourcoing, Nord,[4] the second son and third child[5] of factory-owner René Lefebvre,[6] who died in 1944 in the Nazi concentration camp at Sonnenburg (in East Brandenburg, Germany),[7] where he had been imprisoned by the Gestapo because of his work for the French Resistance and British Intelligence.[8] Marcel's mother and René sr.'s wife was Gabrielle Wattin, who died in 1938.[9]

137 opnion  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:31:47pm

re: #128 BryanS

Do we conservatives still have to claim Buchanan as one of ours? I wish he didn't fill the role of "conservative" on various opinion panels.


Pat's not a conservative.

138 The Shadow Do  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:31:58pm

re: #128 BryanS

Do we conservatives still have to claim Buchanan as one of ours? I wish he didn't fill the role of "conservative" on various opinion panels.

Like dog crap on the bottom of your shoe

139 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:32:06pm

This guy is way beyond disgusting. What on earth is the Pope thinking?

I would not feel comfortable if I were a Jew anywhere in Europe these days.

140 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:32:22pm

re: #135 goddessoftheclassroom

He wouldn't have been reinstated if he had.

I was talking about Our Messiah-King, Obama.

141 Wishing  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:32:26pm

re: #120 OldLineTexan

As a Christian, I have no problem with the FACT that Jesus was born, raised, and lived as a Jew. According to Christians, he's also the literal Son of God. Hence the basic disconnect from Judaism, the parent belief system.

Um that is not where the *disconnect from Judaism* came from.
See Council of Nicea, 325AD.

142 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:32:36pm

re: #60 vxbush

I guess, but jiminy. Sometimes I think it would be worth it to go back so these folks would stay isolated.

I know how you feel - but then, we wouldn't be able to have this conversation. Each new opportunity creates new challenges, I suppose.

143 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:32:36pm

re: #140 FurryOldGuyJeans

I was talking about Our Messiah-King, Obama.

Oh, sorry!

144 BryanS  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:32:58pm

re: #121 goddessoftheclassroom

Please be careful with the hyperbole. Child molestation is NOT an accepted norm. Its being concealed was a horrible crime, but it certainly was NOT acceptable.

It is true that child molestation is not acceptable to the Catholic church, but they sure found ways to bury any problems and not address those that came to light.

145 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:33:00pm

re: #6 Wishing

European Catholics are famous for their anti-Semitic views and conduct. One reason as to why Protestants left Europe for the New World. Horrible continent. I am glad it is now overrun by Islamists. Let them taste their own awful medicine.

146 vxbush  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:33:19pm

Gotta do some chores. Later.

147 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:33:19pm

This creep is a serious idiot, he can state that he has studied the evidence all he wants, but all he has really done is ignore anything that does not support his denial of the holocaust.
He has tossed away Occam's razor and replaced it with Bigots Razor'
"SPIT"

148 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:33:20pm

re: #128 BryanS

Do we conservatives still have to claim Buchanan as one of ours? I wish he didn't fill the role of "conservative" on various opinion panels.

The FMSM will always use Buchanan as what a true conservative is.

149 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:33:44pm

Does he support Obama?

150 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:33:46pm
151 vagabond trader  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:33:51pm

re: #121 goddessoftheclassroom

The extent of the cover-ups and length of time they continued was at the very least tacit approval imho.

152 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:34:01pm

re: #130 buzzsawmonkey

I wonder if he blames the Jews or the Romans for the crucifixion.

What crucifixion?/

153 Former Belgian  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:34:22pm

re: #54 FurryOldGuyJeans

If Lefevbre was conservative, I'm a satanist AND atheist.

Not mainstream "conservative" in the American political sense, of course.

Paleo-paleocon is probably accurate though.

154 notutopia  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:34:22pm

re: #107 FurryOldGuyJeans

The late French conservative schismatic Archbishop Marcel Lefevbre. I was wrong earlier about his being a Cardinal.

AP wrote conservative, BLECH!

re: #105 Ward Cleaver

Probably Cardinal Lefebrve (SSPX) himself.

re: #101 Thanos

LeFebre, another holocaust denying LePen supporter.

He was reinstated by "The HOLY SEE".
The Holy See is the episcopal jurisdiction of the Bishop of Rome, commonly known as the Pope, and is the preeminent episcopal see of the Roman Catholic Church, forming the central government of the Church. It is also recognized by other subjects of international law as a sovereign entity, headed by the Pope, with which diplomatic relations can be maintained.[1]

The Holy See should not be confused with the Vatican City State, which came into existence only in 1929, while the Holy See dates back to early Christian times. Ambassadors are officially accredited not to the Vatican City State but to "the Holy See", and papal representatives to states and international organizations are recognized as representing the Holy See, not the Vatican City State.

While all episcopal sees can be referred to as holy, the expression "the Holy See" (without further specification) is normally used in international relations (as well as in the canon law of the Catholic Church)[2] to refer to the central government of the Catholic Church.

155 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:34:57pm

I have to vent. This shit really pisses me off.
As a Catholic I'm as pissed off at these acts which paint the Church ( which still does a lot of Good deeds BTW ) in a bad light in the same way that I am pissed off at the neonazis , new earther science haters, and other so called conservatioves who cause conservatives to be painted in the same broad brush.

This is an excuse for the Catholic haters here to have at it, and I blame the shitheads who gave them the ammunition

156 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:35:00pm

From Stephen Roth's Antisemitism report 2000:

Fundamentalist Catholic, Pagan and Skinhead Groups

Fundamentalist nationalist Catholics make up one of the most active movements on the far right. In Belgium, as in most European countries, it embraces supporters of the late Monseigneur Marcel Lefebvre, who rejected the 1965 Vatican Council II reforms. The above-mentioned Charles Maurras and Henry Coston are the two main ideological references of the movement. The followers of a church which is hostile to both Judaism and Islam are in most cases active in radical nationalist parties and religious groups, such as the Fraternité Saint-Pie X (St. Pius X Fraternity), founded by Monseigneur Lefebvre, the Ligue Chrétienne Belge/Belgisch Christelijk Verbond (a small group from the Charleroi region) and Pro Vita (a pressure group engaged mainly in combating abortions).

National European paganism rejects the Judeo-Christian heritage and seeks to revive the “religions of the forest” as opposed to the “religions of the desert.” A number of far right pagan (or quasi-pagan) groups exist in Belgium, in particular, Voorpost, the Vlaamse Jongeren Mechelen, Yggdrasil, the Keltisch Verbond, the Vlaams Heidens Front, Thule Sodalitas, the Amis de la Renaissance européenne, the Belgian branch of the Ordre fraternel européen des Druides et Chevaliers du Tribann, and the magazines Megin and Ghallarhorn. Several leaders of the VB, the FN, the FNB, and the Nouvelle Droite Belge are known to belong to this type of group, as evidenced in a report of De Morgen of May 1999. Some of these same groups refer openly to the Société Thule, which was the basis of the creation of the German NSDAP. Several have ties with international organizations: Vlaams Heidens Front, for example, is affiliated with the PanRomanic Heathen Front (PRHF), which seeks to create an “empire for the White Race” that supplants “Christianity’s sickly and degenerate Jewish values.”

157 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:35:06pm

These hardliners are nothing but a big fat joke collectively

158 CyanSnowHawk  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:35:06pm

re: #68 FurryOldGuyJeans

Lincoln was allowed to be assassinated by Booth so Edward Stanton could take over is one rather prominent conspiracy theory still running rampant.

Corollaries to the above are that it actually wasn't Booth, that the person shot in the barn really wasn't Booth, and that Lincoln didn't die because he was tired of serving so he voluntarily stepped down after being slightly wounded at Ford's Theater.

Who is that comedian that does that bit about JFK's brain being put into a monkey?

"I fling this feces because it's there!"

159 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:35:21pm

re: #144 BryanS

It is true that child molestation is not acceptable to the Catholic church, but they sure found ways to bury any problems and not address those that came to light.

Yes, that those who were entrusted with leadership did not deal properly with those horrible priests is beyond reprehensible. Protecting the bureaucracy instead of the innocent is abominable,

160 BryanS  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:35:21pm

re: #137 opnion

Pat's not a conservative.

Very true..but the media likes to continue pinning him on us.
Kind of like this guys' thoughts :)

re: #138 The Shadow Do

Like dog crap on the bottom of your shoe

161 kcladderman  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:35:38pm

re: #124 winston06

it is part of the problem. His stupid religion has blinded him. Especially catholics in Europe. They have been very anti-semitic

No his hatred and stupidity have blinded him.

162 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:35:42pm

re: #141 Wishing

Um that is not where the *disconnect from Judaism* came from.
See Council of Nicea, 325AD.

Yeah, thanks for the condescension, I know a bit more than you might think from your lofty perch. Perhaps you didn't get my point. Enoy your day.

163 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:35:47pm

re: #149 winston06

Probably not. It's a pretty conservative group when it comes to abortions and gay rights.

164 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:35:48pm

re: #143 goddessoftheclassroom

Oh, sorry!

What I said was to have layers of irony. While Williamson is a troofer, I seriously doubt he would be a part of the Nirther crowd, hence not denying the Messiah-King.

165 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:35:51pm

He couldn't look at his interviewer in the eyes most of the time. And when he was looking 'at' the interviewer from our viewing perspective, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't make eye contact then either. Have seen many people like this who have sick minds and hearts who hide behind religion as a cloak for their depravity. He's one of them.

166 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:36:22pm

re: #161 kcladderman

and that comes from his robe and his stupid religious belief.

167 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:36:39pm

re: #153 Former Belgian

Not mainstream "conservative" in the American political sense, of course.

Paleo-paleocon is probably accurate though.

Just the simple fact that the AP uses the term to mean something it doesn't is why I said what I did.

168 goodin510  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:36:47pm

oh please - if the Church kicked out every crazy radical there wouldn't be any priests left.

169 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:36:57pm

re: #7 Killgore Trout

The Catholic church abandoned anything even remotely resembling moral authority long ago.

There you go, bringing up those silly little points. Killgore, you just won't repent?
/

170 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:37:06pm

re: #163 Killgore Trout

LoL... then he supported Ron Paul.

171 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:37:23pm

re: #168 goodin510

or child molesters. LoL

172 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:37:27pm

What an absolute disgrace. This coming from a lifelong Catholic who volunteers at the Church to teach Religious Formation every week. I am sickened by this story.

Whats next. Bringing back tapes of Charles Coughlin?

173 redc1c4  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:37:30pm

re: #139 Pvt Bin Jammin

This guy is way beyond disgusting. What on earth is the Pope thinking?

I would not feel comfortable if I were a Jew anywhere in Europe these days.

FTFY.

174 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:37:42pm

re: #145 winston06

European Catholics are famous for their anti-Semitic views and conduct. One reason as to why Protestants left Europe for the New World. Horrible continent. I am glad it is now overrun by Islamists. Let them taste their own awful medicine.

Huh? Even though I am a descendant of those Protestants, I don't think the welfare of the Jews was on their list of reasons for leaving Europe. If anything, the Pilgrims wanted to establish a stricter theocracy than the relative freedom of religion available in Holland, where they lived before crossing to America.

175 Charles Johnson  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:37:48pm

re: #150 buzzsawmonkey

Pardon me--misspelled the name. Fred Leuchter.

Totally discredited loon--and this religious light relies on him.

Mr. Death.

Youtube Video
176 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:38:25pm

re: #172 mich-again

What an absolute disgrace. This coming from a lifelong Catholic who volunteers at the Church to teach Religious Formation every week. I am sickened by this story.

Whats next. Bringing back tapes of Charles Coughlin?

Billy May is advertising them right now!
/

177 jhrhv  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:38:25pm

re: #121 goddessoftheclassroom

I apologize I didn't mean that Child abuse was accepted I meant more that it's the sort of thing that doesn't shock you when you hear about it in some Church in the news anymore. I should have phrased it better. Probably could do a better job of here as well.

178 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:38:32pm

re: #168 goodin510

oh please - if the Church kicked out every crazy radical there wouldn't be any priests left.

see that's just the kind of shit I am talking about.

99% of priests are dedicated good people who have been tarnished by some bad apples.

179 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:38:59pm

re: #171 winston06

or child molesters. LoL

That is unfair and insulting.

180 Wishing  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:39:16pm

re: #162 OldLineTexan

Yeah, thanks for the condescension, I know a bit more than you might think from your lofty perch. Perhaps you didn't get my point. Enoy your day.

Hmm...no offense was intended whatsoever!

181 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:39:29pm

re: #174 goddessoftheclassroom

Nope. well, europe was hell for the America bound Protestants. That's why they left it. Europe has always been hell. And no, I didn't mean the treatment of the Jews had anything to do with migrations of your ancestors to the New World.

182 kcladderman  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:39:34pm

re: #166 winston06

and that comes from his robe and his stupid religious belief.

So are you saying that the Catholic Church is stupid?

183 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:39:34pm

re: #174 goddessoftheclassroom

Huh? Even though I am a descendant of those Protestants, I don't think the welfare of the Jews was on their list of reasons for leaving Europe. If anything, the Pilgrims wanted to establish a stricter theocracy than the relative freedom of religion available in Holland, where they lived before crossing to America.

Would you quit giving facts to counter a perfectly good content-free rant? ;)

184 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:39:36pm
To clarify a point: Williamson has not been reinstated as a Catholic bishop, he’s been “un-excommunicated,” which allows him to receive communion in the Catholic church. And it’s still wrong.

Glad to hear he is no longer a bishop. Sorry to hear he is still a fool.

185 Pope Insouciance IV  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:39:45pm

I'll bet he has some profound insights on The Da Vinci Code as well.

186 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:40:00pm

re: #182 kcladderman

YES! Church and religion is stupid, sure.

187 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:40:00pm

re: #174 goddessoftheclassroom

Huh? Even though I am a descendant of those Protestants, I don't think the welfare of the Jews was on their list of reasons for leaving Europe. If anything, the Pilgrims wanted to establish a stricter theocracy than the relative freedom of religion available in Holland, where they lived before crossing to America.

OT - GOTC

I just got out of the shower, and saw your notes on the other threads. No, I didn't ignore you, just ran out of steam and time to answer all inquires.

And I'm just drying my hair right now and I'm out of here. So, we will get back to this at sometime, I am sure.

Have a good Sunday.

188 notutopia  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:40:29pm

I've personally got a real issue of bells going off of dishonesty when a person cannot look me in the eyes when I'm discussing something as important as their own
opinion.
Look at the vid, he could not stop his eyes from diverting way off while he floundered to answer these questions. His beliefs are way extremist right and
the man is a anti-emetic, troofer wolf in bishops garb.
He needs to be excommunicated.

189 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:40:31pm

re: #182 kcladderman

So are you saying that the Catholic Church is stupid?

No, he's saying ALL religion is stupid.

190 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:40:48pm

re: #189 FurryOldGuyJeans

that too

191 Lynn B.  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:40:57pm

It was dangerous to go in to pull out the corpses. Yes, indeed. That's why they sent more Jews in to go pull out the corpses. There are survivors who tell, in excruciating detail, what that experience was like.

I have a distant cousin (now deceased, z"l), who was actually in the gas chamber and was pulled out at the last minute. She's written about her experiences in the camps. Also spoken, to family, to friends, to me, about them. This POS is calling her a liar.

This video has made my physically ill.

192 Dustyvet  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:41:01pm

re: #165 rightymouse

He couldn't look at his interviewer in the eyes most of the time. And when he was looking 'at' the interviewer from our viewing perspective, I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't make eye contact then either. Have seen many people like this who have sick minds and hearts who hide behind religion as a cloak for their depravity. He's one of them.

Could it be because as my father used to say:


"The porch lights on, but nobody's home?"

193 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:41:02pm

re: #186 winston06

YES! Church and religion is stupid, sure.

You are a asshole.

194 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:41:25pm

re: #193 Walter L. Newton

excuse moi?

195 redc1c4  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:41:29pm

i'm trying to imagine the kind of God that a church who accepts people like this asshat would worship, and i just can't get there.

it certainly wouldn't be one of love and forgiveness, and damn sure isn't one i can see myself want to earn the approval of.

if this is the path to salvation, i'll just take an alternate route.

196 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:42:04pm

re: #180 Wishing

Hmm...no offense was intended whatsoever!

My clue was the beginning word typed, "Um".

Not usually a good sign.

And, even though I am a Christian of the Southern Baptist (i.e., fundie ignorant variety), I have had no difficulty in studying the history of Christianity with open eyes, and have read (if not memorized, I lack the capability) the writings of the "Church Fathers" extensively.

197 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:42:21pm

re: #188 notutopia

I've personally got a real issue of bells going off of dishonesty when a person cannot look me in the eyes when I'm discussing something as important as their own
opinion.
Look at the vid, he could not stop his eyes from diverting way off while he floundered to answer these questions. His beliefs are way extremist right and
the man is a anti-emetic, troofer wolf in bishops garb.
He needs to be excommunicated.

Sorry, I disagree; he's a complete emetic; he makes me want to vomit...
/I'm not picking; it's just an ironic typo, of which I've committed my share.

198 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:42:49pm

re: #190 winston06

that too

I have to agree with Walter's assessment of you being an asshole. Bigoted troll is not a stretch, either.

199 opnion  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:42:55pm

re: #185 Pope Insouciance IV

I'll bet he has some profound insights on The Da Vinci Code as well.


Oh yeah, it's all true. Mary Magdelene went to France in row boat with no oars. Silly, but a good yarn.
By the way, The Last Tempar is on tonight.

200 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:42:56pm

re: #195 redc1c4

i'm trying to imagine the kind of God that a church who accepts people like this asshat would worship, and i just can't get there.

it certainly wouldn't be one of love and forgiveness, and damn sure isn't one i can see myself want to earn the approval of.

if this is the path to salvation, i'll just take an alternate route.

how do you know God accepts him ?


probably not but I don't speak for God

201 vagabond trader  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:43:16pm

Bet he also believes that the Juice are commiting genocide on the pals.

202 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:43:18pm

re: #186 winston06

YES! Church and religion is stupid, sure.

Thank God you're so smart!

Umm, OK, that won't work for you, will it?

203 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:43:20pm

I think creationists and religious bigots on this thread are furious

204 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:43:20pm

re: #194 winston06

excuse moi?

A S S H O L E. Or would you like me to translate it into another language. You comments about the Catholic Church and religion is insulting.

Take that, jerk, from an atheist.

205 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:43:42pm

re: #168 goodin510

oh please - if the Church kicked out every crazy radical there wouldn't be any priests left.


Forget the sarc tag?

If not - Fuck you.

206 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:43:56pm

re: #202 OldLineTexan

what god r u thanking any ways?

207 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:43:56pm

re: #204 Walter L. Newton

A S S H O L E. Or would you like me to translate it into another language. You comments about the Catholic Church and religion is insulting.

Take that, jerk, from an atheist.


{Walter L. Newton}

Break a leg tonight...

208 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:44:03pm

NOT GOOD - That is All.

-S-

209 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:44:04pm

re: #171 winston06

or child molesters. LoL

Fuck you too.

210 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:44:05pm

re: #169 Walter L. Newton

This stuff always causes trouble. I imagine Charles' hatemail inbox is filling up rapidly.

211 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:44:20pm

re: #204 Walter L. Newton

so r u...

212 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:44:38pm

re: #209 Racer X

guess I hit a nerve

213 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:44:49pm

If I were a practicing Catholic I'd be enraged. Where is the indignation from the Church's following? Hello?

214 CyanSnowHawk  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:44:59pm

I noted the concerns that were voiced when Benedict ascended to the Papacy. This event does not bode well in light of those concerns. I am a lapsed Catholic myself, and I imagine that the rest of my family is not going to like this one bit.

What's next I wonder? Withdraw the apology to Galileo?

215 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:45:03pm

re: #207 goddessoftheclassroom

{Walter L. Newton}

Break a leg tonight...

Thanks. (you're a gem, love ya)

216 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:45:14pm

re: #193 Walter L. Newton

You are a asshole.

Well said!

217 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:45:22pm

re: #186 winston06

YES! Church and religion is stupid, sure.

Very sure in your ignorance, aren't you. When ignorance is bliss, tis folly to be wise.

218 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:45:24pm

re: #203 winston06

I think creationists and religious bigots on this thread are furious

What are you upset about?

219 Ojoe  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:45:25pm

I put a solemn architect's curse on any fool who thinks the twin towers and WTC 7 were brought down by anything other than satanically possessed people who got their hands on big airplanes.

& it goes double on that fool Richard Williamson.

220 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:45:33pm

re: #212 winston06

guess I hit a nerve

No, you showed everyone what a bigot and jerk you are. Big difference.

221 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:45:45pm

I think it is absolutely brilliant that religious bigots show their true colors on threads like this.

222 redc1c4  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:45:51pm

re: #186 winston06

YES! Church and religion is stupid, sure.

they certainly can be.

after all, they are formed by, and comprised of, people.

and we all know how stupid they can be.

223 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:45:51pm

I understand how you all feel - I don't like this loathsome man either. However, it is important to note why he incurred excommunication latae sententiae. It happened in the 1980s and had nothing to do with his beliefs about the Holocaust.

He is one of six bishops who were automatically excommunicated when they were consecrated as bishops by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, of the Society of St. Pius X, in Switzerland in the 1980s, for directly participating in an episcopal consecration in the absence of a papal mandate.

224 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:46:02pm

Anyone want to put on a show? Well, I do, off to work. Fight nice.

225 Pope Insouciance IV  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:46:03pm

re: #199 opnion

Mary Magdelene went to France in row boat with no oars


She had an Evinrude?

226 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:46:04pm

re: #206 winston06

what god r u thanking any ways?

Which one would you like? Or is English usage new to you?

227 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:46:17pm

re: #174 goddessoftheclassroom

Huh? Even though I am a descendant of those Protestants, I don't think the welfare of the Jews was on their list of reasons for leaving Europe. If anything, the Pilgrims wanted to establish a stricter theocracy than the relative freedom of religion available in Holland, where they lived before crossing to America.


The original pilgrims were headed for Virginia of all places. Glad they wound up in Massachusetts. Although there was hopeless confusion among them (and nasty stuff too) once others started arriving, i.e. the Quakers, people went to where they were welcome and comfortable. Rhode Island and Maine were havens, for instance, for Quakers.

228 iLikeCandy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:46:22pm

re: #121 goddessoftheclassroom

Please be careful with the hyperbole. Child molestation is NOT an accepted norm. Its being concealed was a horrible crime, but it certainly was NOT acceptable.

What's the difference between "acceptable" and "accepted" when Cardinal Law is spirited off for a job in the Vatican after presiding over 23 years of child molestation in his diocese?

229 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:46:30pm

re: #211 winston06

so r u...

Grade school retorts from a troll.

My, we've NEVER seen that before, have we?

230 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:46:36pm

re: #220 Walter L. Newton

No, you showed everyone what a bigot and jerk you are. Big difference.

but u used foul language when i voiced my opinion. for that u proved to be a hole not me. LoL.

231 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:46:41pm
232 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:46:57pm

re: #221 winston06

I think it is absolutely brilliant that religious bigots show their true colors on threads like this.

It seems to be a showcase for your talents.

233 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:47:13pm

re: #226 OldLineTexan

nah, apparently you didnt understand the question

234 UberInfidel67  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:47:17pm

re: #221 winston06 So those of us who disagree with all the shit you are talking about the Church and religion in general are bigots, BUT the shit you say doesn't make YOU one? Oh, ok./

235 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:47:32pm

re: #232 OldLineTexan

yup yup

236 opnion  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:47:54pm

re: #213 unrealizedviewpoint

If I were a practicing Catholic I'd be enraged. Where is the indignation from the Church's following? Hello?

If it helps I live in a parish that split & friedships were ruined over priest abuse.

237 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:48:01pm

re: #234 UberInfidel67

nah. it won't

238 redc1c4  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:48:13pm

re: #200 Shug

how do you know God accepts him ?

probably not but I don't speak for God

that isn't what i wrote, and you know it.

239 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:48:28pm

re: #234 UberInfidel67

So those of us who disagree with all the shit you are talking about the Church and religion in general are bigots, BUT the shit you say doesn't make YOU one? Oh, ok./

A bigot is never bigoted, only those he hates are.

240 kcladderman  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:48:31pm

re: #213 unrealizedviewpoint

If I were a practicing Catholic I'd be enraged. Where is the indignation from the Church's following? Hello?

If you would read the thread you would see what the catholic lizards have to say about him.

241 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:48:32pm

re: #210 Killgore Trout

This stuff always causes trouble. I imagine Charles' hatemail inbox is filling up rapidly.

which baffles me. Charles is a fair dude. As a Catholic I'm not in the least bit offended by this topic. I am mad at the bishop and the church. I am annoyed at the Catholic haters, but what can I do. I speak my mind to them.

I am grateful to Charles for showing this topic.

I don't get the hate mail people.
They ought to pray harder and ask God to give them a life

242 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:48:32pm

re: #212 winston06

Your ignorance is astounding.

1.3 Billion Catholics, Millions of priests and you paint them all with a broad brush based on what, maybe a hundred who are asses?

You are an idiot.

243 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:48:43pm

re: #222 redc1c4

agreed

244 Ojoe  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:48:47pm

re: #236 opnion

I for one am pissed

245 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:49:06pm

re: #242 Racer X

you hardliners r jumpy.

246 Prince of Dorkness  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:49:15pm

re: #178 Shug

see that's just the kind of shit I am talking about.

99% of priests are dedicated good people who have been tarnished by some bad apples.

There does seem to be a lot of Catholic bashing going on, and crap like this just adds fuel to the fire. I've known lots of priests (and not in the biblical sense either) and they have all been good, caring men of God!

247 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:49:15pm

re: #192 Dustyvet

Could it be because as my father used to say:


"The porch lights on, but nobody's home?"

This man doesn't even have the porch lights on. His brain is scurrying around in the dark with rats. He is NO man of G-d and should be stripped of his priesthood.

248 Old Guy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:49:33pm

Somewhat on topic. I believe it was in the 1960's that Esquire Magazine did an article on hate in the US. The most anti-semitic group, in their opinion, were the North-Eastern Polish Catholics. I worked with an Irish-Polish Catholic at that time and based on this jerk's attitude I believe the magazine at that time was correct. Interestingly, they found that white, southern Protestants were the least bigoted. Guess the didn't include Georgia!
By the way, having grown up in same city as Pat Buchanan I can confirm that anti-semitism floursihed in the DC area, particularly among the Irish--especially those that went to parochial schools. Yeah, I saw it and had it directed against me.
Also, I read were Pat Buchanan and his brothers (4 others I believe) used go around beating up jewish kids.
Please don't ask for links--the writer was from the Dc area and I cannot remember his name. With respect to the Esquire magazine you can research it. Sorry.

249 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:49:43pm

re: #242 Racer X

Your ignorance is astounding.

1.3 Billion Catholics, Millions of priests and you paint them all with a broad brush based on what, maybe a hundred who are asses?

You are an idiot.

You are being far too kind and generous by calling him merely an idiot.

250 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:49:51pm

re: #233 winston06

nah, apparently you didnt understand the question

And then your feelings got hurt, or what?

The God I referenced, in standard Modern English, is the God of the Bible. If I had meant Allah or Thor, I'd have typed it.

Then again, it was just a bit of a joke, and you seem to have your knickers in a twist.

Too bad.

251 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:50:24pm

re: #240 kcladderman

If you would read the thread you would see what the catholic lizards have to say about him.

I wasn't speaking of lizards, but of the millions other members of the Church.

252 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:50:27pm

re: #214 CyanSnowHawk

I noted the concerns that were voiced when Benedict ascended to the Papacy. This event does not bode well in light of those concerns. I am a lapsed Catholic myself, and I imagine that the rest of my family is not going to like this one bit.

What's next I wonder? Withdraw the apology to Galileo?

I may well be wrong, but I THINK that Benedict is trying to restore this person to the faith. Allowing him to receive the sacraments is the first step of that process. Dear Oscar Wilde notwithstanding, stupidity is not a sin AS LONG AS it does not interfere with faith. That's where Mr. Williamson has to get straightened out, or he will be subject to be excommunicated again.

This reinstatement does NOT mean that the Pope or anyone with the sense God gave a goat agrees this this person.

253 opnion  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:50:32pm

re: #225 Pope Insouciance IV

She had an Evinrude?

Lucky current.

254 Dustyvet  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:50:41pm

God: Every time I try to talk to someone it's "sorry this" and "forgive me that" and "I'm not worthy"...

255 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:51:08pm

re: #235 winston06

yup yup

HAHAHAHAHA.

You from Texas, too? ;)

Bigots is funny and all, ain't they?

256 UberInfidel67  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:51:22pm

re: #252 goddessoftheclassroom
Well said Mandy. So as to "bring them back into the fold"? That is the impression I got.

257 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:51:26pm

re: #193 Walter L. Newton

You are a asshole.

God bless you, and break a leg, hon.

258 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:51:44pm

re: #198 FurryOldGuyJeans

u showed to be a bigot when I said something disapproving about ur fake god. not me...

259 Ojoe  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:51:47pm

re: #247 rightymouse

“On Commissary Goldie’s Bishop Williamson's Brains”

By Robert Burns

Lord, to account who dares thee call,
Or e’er dispute thy pleasure?
Else why within so thick a wall
Enclose so poor a treasure?

260 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:51:49pm

re: #238 redc1c4

that isn't what i wrote, and you know it.

I was asking a question from your topic.

You eluded to the fact that this is the path to salvation, and that this man represents it and that God accepts him.

Only God knows who he accepts, assuming there is a God.

People should worry less about whether or not somebody else is going to Heaven or to Hell and worry about themselves. ( that's my opinion and has nothing to do with whatever you said or didn't say )

261 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:51:56pm

re: #245 winston06

you hardliners r jumpy.

Your assumption of my religious affiliation is false.

My assumption that you are an idiot appears to be right on. Keep posting more evidence.

262 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:52:17pm

re: #213 unrealizedviewpoint

If I were a practicing Catholic I'd be enraged. Where is the indignation from the Church's following? Hello?

Well I made it clear in post 172 how I thought. I want to know what brought all this on? What, the Church needed a jerk like this back in the fold? He and his subversive cult of egomaniacs already made it clear 20 years ago they didn't give a crap about the Catholic Church or respect its authority.

263 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:52:29pm

re: #250 OldLineTexan

lol... god? Don't make me laugh. what god? u need to prove it

264 opnion  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:52:47pm

re: #246 Prince of Dorkness

There does seem to be a lot of Catholic bashing going on, and crap like this just adds fuel to the fire. I've known lots of priests (and not in the biblical sense either) and they have all been good, caring men of God!


I have known lots of good guys as well.

265 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:52:56pm

re: #261 Racer X

who is the judge here?

266 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:52:58pm

re: #228 iLikeCandy

What's the difference between "acceptable" and "accepted" when Cardinal Law is spirited off for a job in the Vatican after presiding over 23 years of child molestation in his diocese?

Please see my 159.

267 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:53:01pm

re: #252 goddessoftheclassroom

I may well be wrong, but I THINK that Benedict is trying to restore this person to the faith. Allowing him to receive the sacraments is the first step of that process. Dear Oscar Wilde notwithstanding, stupidity is not a sin AS LONG AS it does not interfere with faith. That's where Mr. Williamson has to get straightened out, or he will be subject to be excommunicated again.

This reinstatement does NOT mean that the Pope or anyone with the sense God gave a goat agrees this this person.

Now that it has been made clear that the man has not been reinstated as Bishop makes it easier to understand Benedict's possible reasons for doing it. Reinstating Williamson as Bishop would have been really stupid.

268 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:53:16pm

re: #241 Shug

which baffles me. Charles is a fair dude. As a Catholic I'm not in the least bit offended by this topic. I am mad at the bishop and the church. I am annoyed at the Catholic haters, but what can I do. I speak my mind to them.

I am grateful to Charles for showing this topic.

I don't get the hate mail people.
They ought to pray harder and ask God to give them a life

I agree with you, and I am also a Catholic. I would probably have not even known about this if Charles hadn't posted it, since I usually don't read the religious news, and this probably won't make a big news splash.

269 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:53:41pm

re: #124 winston06

it is part of the problem. His stupid religion has blinded him. Especially catholics in Europe. They have been very anti-semitic

A family member recently converted from catholicism to some protestant religion, citing in part the anti-semitic thing among catholics. I hadn't noticed it myself before, but it's turning up too regularly to be ignored now.

270 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:53:45pm

re: #261 Racer X

Your assumption of my religious affiliation is false.

My assumption that you are an idiot appears to be right on. Keep posting more evidence.

Unlike the Bishop's conclusions, I believe the mounting evidence bears you up on your conclusion.

271 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:54:14pm

re: #251 unrealizedviewpoint

I wasn't speaking of lizards, but of the millions other members of the Church.

The only reason I even know about him is that I read littlegreenfootballs.

I'll bet 99.999% of the billion catholics have never heard of this guy and if they did , they would make their feelings known.

272 kcladderman  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:54:30pm

re: #251 unrealizedviewpoint

I wasn't speaking of lizards, but of the millions other members of the Church.

Well they probably haven't log on during and open registration. :-)

273 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:54:48pm

re: #263 winston06

lol... god? Don't make me laugh. what god? u need to prove it

Need? You jest. I'm not proselytizing you, friend. I cracked a joke at your bigotry, and you're upset.

Wah.

And please feel free to keep having a downding hissy fit. You'll get no anger from me. I think you're a hoot.

274 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:54:55pm

re: #269 Jimmah

European Catholics are notorious for their anti-Jewish sentiments. They aided Nazis in eliminating the Jews.

275 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:55:08pm

re: #265 winston06

who is the judge here?

St Peter

276 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:55:28pm

snicker

277 Ojoe  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:55:36pm

re: #263 winston06

Read Thomas Aquinas

278 Shay4l  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:55:47pm

re: #248 Old Guy


By the way, having grown up in same city as Pat Buchanan I can confirm that anti-semitism floursihed in the DC area, particularly among the Irish--especially those that went to parochial schools. Yeah, I saw it and had it directed against me.
Also, I read were Pat Buchanan and his brothers (4 others I believe) used go around beating up jewish kids.
Please don't ask for links--the writer was from the Dc area and I cannot remember his name. With respect to the Esquire magazine you can research it. Sorry.

I believe this. From what I know and have written about here, Pat Buchanan has always been a thug and I hope he gets what he deserves.

279 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:56:00pm

re: #258 winston06

u showed to be a bigot when I said something disapproving about ur fake god. not me...

My fake god? You haven't a hint of a clue what I believe.

And learn to spell and capitalize like a normal person if you want to be accorded even a modicum of respect for what you say. As it stands you come across as a spittle-flinging dimwit.

I am done playing with the troll. Anyone else want to continue?

280 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:56:06pm

re: #273 OldLineTexan

I am not upset at all. I am neither a believer nor a religious zealot. Like I said, you need to prove there's a god then we can continue this discussion over phony religions and their anti-humanity ideas.

281 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:56:36pm

re: #263 winston06

lol... god? Don't make me laugh. what god? u need to prove it

I'm sure you have proof to the contrary right?

The only thing that is as illogical as being certain there is a God is being certain there isn't one. Its all faith, one way or the other.

282 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:56:48pm

re: #279 FurryOldGuyJeans

it is a god, get over it dimwit.

283 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:57:16pm

re: #274 winston06

European Catholics are notorious for their anti-Jewish sentiments. They aided Nazis in eliminating the Jews.

Actually I heard that about Canadian atheists.

284 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:57:24pm

re: #281 mich-again

I don't claim there is a god. the burden of the proof rests with those who claim there is one.

285 Ojoe  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:57:26pm

re: #274 winston06

Not at all. I have relatives (gone now) who risked their lives to get Jews out of the way of the Nazis.

You are something else.

286 kcladderman  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:57:40pm

re: #269 Jimmah

A family member recently converted from catholicism to some protestant religion, citing in part the anti-semitic thing among catholics. I hadn't noticed it myself before, but it's turning up too regularly to be ignored now.

I only down dinged you to offset winstons upding :-)

287 ironbill  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:57:50pm

As a proud and observant Catholic I have several comments and observations to add:

1st, if you are a Catholic and find this garbage appalling, do as I have done this morning. Write a brief, but to the point, letter to your diocese. Tell the local bishop or cardinal that this is bullshit (I don't recommend using that exact word). I hope to hear back soon from Cardinal Eagan. If he doesn't tell me that he is transmitting my message to Rome with his agreement, the collection basket gets zippo from ironbill (forever).

2nd, find every Jewish friend, associate, nemesis... and tell them personally that you consider this asshole to be an... asshole (the use of this word is optional, depending on your relationships)

3rd, tell your parish priest. Parish administration is a political game like anything else done by humans. If your local vicar sees that the poobahs in Rome are making the sheep restless they tend to respond by A) letting you know they agree, and B) by passing the complaints up the chain of command.

We Catholics and Jews around the New York area share a lot of bonds that help us work together and get through the tough stuff that NYC has to offer. When I was at ground zero assisting with the recovery (my former line of work was in steel construction, hence the "ironbill") I witnessed a group of Rabbincal and Seminary students coordinating some of the services. I refuse to let some dipshit with a collar and a pyschological dysfunction speak in my name.

288 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:57:53pm

re: #265 winston06

who is the judge here?

If I was a judge I would have handed out a sentence.

I'm just voicing my opinion. You took this opportunity to jump in and bash Catholics and many here took offense.

289 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:58:06pm

re: #283 Shug

LoL... probably. But I haven't seen any evidence about that yet

290 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:58:15pm

re: #284 winston06

I don't claim there is a god. the burden of the proof rests with those who claim there is one.

No one is obligated to prove to you that there is a God.

291 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:58:17pm

re: #280 winston06

I am not upset at all. I am neither a believer nor a religious zealot. Like I said, you need to prove there's a god then we can continue this discussion over phony religions and their anti-humanity ideas.

You are confusing faith with science, but in reverse of the way the ID people do it. No one needs to prove there is a God to you. Either you have faith or you don't.

292 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:58:20pm

re: #280 winston06

I am not upset at all. I am neither a believer nor a religious zealot. Like I said, you need to prove there's a god then we can continue this discussion over phony religions and their anti-humanity ideas.

Then what is your anger about? Where in my posts have I tried to make you accept this false Bishop, his religious beliefs, or anything?

You're just having a fit. Get over your conspiracy theories.

And I havn't seen any discussion from you yet.

293 Sunlight  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:58:31pm

re: #141 Wishing

Um that is not where the *disconnect from Judaism* came from.
See Council of Nicea, 325AD.

Spill it, please. I've learned about this from both sides, but I want to hear how Wishing would summarize it. Please note, folks, that we live on this earth and silence in the face of this bishop's fairy tale means agreement. Even if he is evaluated in whatever afterlife is relevant to each individual, the fact of his and potentially the Pope's incitement on this earth and its effects on other groups needs to be loudly addressed by his co-religionists. If they don't agree with it.

294 Ojoe  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:58:43pm

re: #284 winston06

Do you see motion? Does anything start moving by itself? How far back can you reason?

Go read Thomas Aquinas.

295 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:58:48pm

re: #288 Racer X

so your feelings were hurt and not mine. See, thats the problem with most religious hardliners. They took offense quick.

296 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:58:55pm

re: #282 winston06

it is a god, get over it dimwit.

Tsk, name-calling

Have a good one.

297 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:58:58pm

re: #289 winston06

LoL... probably. But I haven't seen any evidence about that yet

The burden is on you to prove it isn't true

298 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:59:00pm

re: #263 winston06

lol... god? Don't make me laugh. what god? u need to prove it

Go look at your navel. You think your Mommy and Daddy being able to have you is an accident of nothingness?

299 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:59:08pm

re: #291 Catttt

Exactly.

300 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:59:11pm

re: #280 winston06

Like I said, you need to prove there's a god then we can continue this discussion

Now thats just a stupid thing to say.

301 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 12:59:27pm

re: #271 Shug

The only reason I even know about him is that I read littlegreenfootballs.

I'll bet 99.999% of the billion catholics have never heard of this guy and if they did , they would make their feelings known.

re: #272 kcladderman

Well they probably haven't log on during and open registration. :-)

I would have believed there was not a shortage of Christian bashers standing at the ready to make this widely known.

302 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:00:00pm

re: #297 Shug

I would rather keep that to myself. I am not on a crusade to convert people to anything. I am happy with what I believe in my own life

303 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:00:40pm

re: #284 winston06

I don't claim there is a god. the burden of the proof rests with those who claim there is one.

I don't give a crap what you believe or don't believe and I'll take a guess that no one else here cares what you believe or don't believe.

304 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:00:42pm

re: #300 mich-again

How is it stupid? I can not believe in what I can not see. You claim there's one. Show it to me.

305 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:00:47pm

Proof of God is all around. All you have to do is look around, assuming you can put off your blinders of comfortable ignorance.

306 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:01:02pm

re: #303 mich-again

same goes to u.

307 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:01:14pm

re: #305 maddogg

Really?

308 BryanS  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:01:22pm

re: #274 winston06

European Catholics are notorious for their anti-Jewish sentiments. They aided Nazis in eliminating the Jews.

There, fixed it for you. There is no need to add the Catholic qualifier -- especially when many Catholics were rounded up by the Nazis as well.

309 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:01:40pm

Bigotry whether anti-semitic or anti-catholic is still bigotry Winston.

310 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:01:40pm

re: #282 winston06

it is a god, get over it dimwit.

You have no idea what I believe, period.

Being called a dimwit by the likes of you is high praise indeed. I thank you, truly.

311 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:02:06pm

re: #310 FurryOldGuyJeans

u r welcome, dimwit

312 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:02:13pm

re: #304 winston06

How is it stupid?

Giving someone an impossible task as a precondition for them to have a discussion with you is stupid.

313 Sunlight  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:02:15pm

re: #162 OldLineTexan

Not to worry. Someone on one of the earlier threads said they were going to pray for me after disagreeing!

314 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:02:42pm

Hi everybody. Just home from Church! What's happening?

315 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:02:47pm

re: #304 winston06

How is it stupid? I can not believe in what I can not see. You claim there's one. Show it to me.

Then you must reject that there is an atmosphere, since you can't see it.

316 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:02:52pm

re: #302 winston06

I would rather keep that to myself. I am not on a crusade to convert people to anything. I am happy with what I believe in my own life

winston, read what I wrote above.

I think people ought to spend their energy worrying about their own ( or lack of ) afterlife and less about others.

I don't care what you believe or don't, so why give a shit if people want to have beliefs?
I think you were pretty rude and that's what got folks upset.
I have a pretty thick skin. People can bash God and the Church all they want. God will deal with them if he wants to. I have other things to worry about

S

317 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:03:03pm

Why are we tearing each other to pieces? Let's remember the real enemy here.

318 Bloodnok  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:03:08pm

re: #306 winston06

same goes to u.

Are you 14? Don't you have homework to do?

319 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:03:16pm

re: #314 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hi everybody. Just home from Church! What's happening?

DUCK!

320 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:03:19pm

re: #309 Thanos

true. But the few hardline religious dimwit were quick to show that side of theirs fast here and all i did was to point at the fact.

321 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:03:21pm

re: #314 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hi everybody. Just home from Church! What's happening?

You have NO idea how funny your post is in the context of this thread...

{FBV}

322 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:03:36pm

re: #306 winston06

same goes to u.

Again, you are mistaken by thinking I care what you think.

323 yesandno  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:03:50pm

I stay off the discussions of religion. Everyone has an opinion. Few discuss it from a passive side.

Because the Pope allows the men a path to God, I doubt he is supporting all the man believes. The Pope probably recognized he is a sinner...as the Pope is himself. But the Church is really larger then it's hierarchy in many cases. If one was really dogmatic about things, the Church could ex-communicate everyone who practices birth control outside of the rhythm method.

In any large organization there are people who don't represent the institution in the best possible light, who ideas seem in exact opposition to the mission statement as it were....look at our own government, i.e., the Supreme Court members that think World laws should influence US law and the interpretation our Constitution. A divergence with original purpose to say the least.

Yet we all have a belief that as long as WE are faithful to the original intent, then the government will eventually return to that purpose. No really different from remaining faithful to the teachings of the Church, not to the flawed members of it.

The Church is not just what comes down, some if it is ideas that travel upward. Don't condem it all because it doesn't agree with your way of thinking how things should be.

324 Dustyvet  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:03:52pm

re: #314 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hi everybody. Just home from Church! What's happening?

If you get a helmet near by, I suggest you put it on, it getting ugly in here...

325 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:04:10pm

re: #319 MandyManners

DUCK!

LMAO!

326 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:04:14pm

re: #318 Bloodnok

how about you? Are you 11? No homework?

327 J.S.  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:04:15pm

That's pretty hideous...

OT The London Telegraph's science reporter (Richard Gray) has an article on a recent book about Darwin...the book maintains that Darwin's research into evolution was motivated by his desire to end slavery...link to article here.

328 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:04:16pm

re: #314 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hi everybody. Just home from Church! What's happening?


Got bourbon?

329 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:04:16pm

re: #314 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hi everybody. Just home from Church! What's happening?

Hiya FBV! We're playing bigot-ball! I'm leaving; there's some guacamole downstairs begging to be consumed on tortilla chips. My kingdom for a beer, but alas...

See ya later, honcos.

330 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:04:22pm

re: #319 MandyManners

DUCK!

GMTA!

331 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:04:26pm

re: #322 mich-again

then get over it.

332 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:04:26pm

re: #317 MandyManners

Why are we tearing each other to pieces? Let's remember the real enemy here.

Gordon!

333 Sunlight  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:04:43pm

re: #191 Lynn B.

It was dangerous to go in to pull out the corpses. Yes, indeed. That's why they sent more Jews in to go pull out the corpses. There are survivors who tell, in excruciating detail, what that experience was like.

I have a distant cousin (now deceased, z"l), who was actually in the gas chamber and was pulled out at the last minute. She's written about her experiences in the camps. Also spoken, to family, to friends, to me, about them. This POS is calling her a liar.

This video has made my physically ill.

And that bishop doesn't like that the Euros have been "tricked" into paying back pennies on the dollar for the Jews' stuff that they stole.

334 OldLineTexan  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:04:46pm

re: #319 MandyManners

DUCK!

RABBIT!

335 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:05:20pm

re: #314 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hi everybody. Just home from Church! What's happening?

Church, how stupid are you? There is no god and religion sucks! You suck!

/winston06

336 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:05:25pm

re: #311 winston06

u r welcome, dimwit

You keep blessing me with riches, thank you.

337 Bloodnok  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:05:29pm

re: #317 MandyManners

Why are we tearing each other to pieces? Let's remember the real enemy here.

You are right.

338 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:05:37pm

re: #299 winston06

Exactly.

Ok, so you have no faith. I have no problem with that.

BUT - that doesn't mean that I am giving you a bye to make smarmy cracks about religion. Nor do I intend to engage you in a discussion. Theological discussions reduced to pissing in the gutter will cause both the religious and atheists to think you are a pea brain.

339 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:05:45pm

re: #295 winston06

so your feelings were hurt and not mine. See, thats the problem with most religious hardliners. They took offense quick.

First off - you are incapable of hurting my feelings.
Second - I have not made my religious affiliation known. I could be Amish for all you know.

The fact that you can so quickly jump to conclusions without even looking at the facts exposes you as a troll, which is why several Lizards are chewing your ass.

Burp.

340 LeePro  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:05:51pm

re: #139 Pvt Bin Jammin

This guy is way beyond disgusting. What on earth is the Pope thinking?

I would not feel comfortable if I were a Jew anywhere in Europe these days.

As a non-practicing Catholic, I agree with you. This both baffles and disgusts me... I don't know why this is happening.

FYI (everybody), this version of the story includes a bit more detail, and Lizard wahabicorridor's link above is a pitiful example of "explanation" for the purpose of lightening the impact of an extremely bad decision!

I can understand and accept "forgiving" the original transgression, but to do this is to perform a huge slap in the face of his predecessor, Pope John Paul II — who did more to unite Catholics and Jews all over the world, by the way — and has set us back years! ! !

341 Dustyvet  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:06:04pm

re: #329 OldLineTexan

Hiya FBV! We're playing bigot-ball! I'm leaving; there's some guacamole downstairs begging to be consumed on tortilla chips. My kingdom for a beer, but alas...

See ya later, honcos.

Bye Old Line...take care and see you laters...:)

342 debutaunt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:06:07pm

re: #9 doppelganglander

What was he excommunicated for in the first place?

His over-the-top practical jokes.

343 A Kiwi Infidel  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:06:19pm

re: #304 winston06

How is it stupid? I can not believe in what I can not see. You claim there's one. Show it to me.

You are an idiot. I cannot see your thoughts, so therefore, according to your logic, you do not exist.

344 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:06:20pm

re: #259 Ojoe

“On Commissary Goldie’s Bishop Williamson's Brains”

By Robert Burns

Lord, to account who dares thee call,
Or e’er dispute thy pleasure?
Else why within so thick a wall
Enclose so poor a treasure?

**snort**

345 Shay4l  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:06:26pm

re: #304 winston06

I can not believe in what I can not see.

How much of the universe,life, reality and all can you see? It is a silly statement. I bet you're sorry you made it.

GAZE

346 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:06:28pm

re: #331 winston06

I see from your avatar you are Canadian.

347 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:06:33pm

re: #333 Sunlight

And that bishop doesn't like that the Euros have been "tricked" into paying back pennies on the dollar for the Jews' stuff that they stole.

Has Soros ever had to compensate the Hungarian Jews and their families?

Oh, wait. He was a minor so he gets a free ticket. Asshole.

348 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:06:38pm

re: #336 FurryOldGuyJeans

yw

349 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:06:43pm

re: #315 maddogg

Then you must reject that there is an atmosphere, since you can't see it.

Quit speaking facts to the clueless wanting to conduct a content-free bigoted rant.

350 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:06:48pm

re: #339 Racer X

First off - you are incapable of hurting my feelings.
Second - I have not made my religious affiliation known. I could be Amish for all you know.

The fact that you can so quickly jump to conclusions without even looking at the facts exposes you as a troll, which is why several Lizards are chewing your ass.

Burp.

With respect, Amish is the one sect to which you COULDN'T belong and be able to post here! :)

351 Ojoe  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:06:53pm

re: #344 rightymouse

Yesterday was Bobby Burn's birthday I believe.

352 Guanxi88  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:07:11pm

re: #317 MandyManners

Why are we tearing each other to pieces? Let's remember the real enemy here.

Hear! Hear! While we're sitting here ripping little bits off each other, the Illuminati, the Bilderbergers, and Irish are all hard at work.

353 carefulnow  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:07:12pm

re: #117 BryanS

Sadly true.

354 Bloodnok  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:07:15pm

re: #350 goddessoftheclassroom

With respect, Amish is the one sect to which you COULDN'T belong and be able to post here! :)

LOL

355 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:07:19pm

re: #349 FurryOldGuyJeans

like I said... prove there's a god. lol

356 redc1c4  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:07:32pm

re: #280 winston06

I am not upset at all. I am neither a believer nor a religious zealot. Like I said, you need to prove there's a god then we can continue this discussion over phony religions and their anti-humanity ideas.

atheism is just another religion..... get over yourself.

357 hazzyday  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:07:35pm

Let priests marry. It's the shortage of them that leads to all this softness on priests like this and the ones that were pedophiles.

358 kcladderman  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:07:51pm

re: #346 mich-again

I see from your avatar you are Canadian.

I can't see Canada from where i live it must not exist.

359 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:07:52pm

Hold on - I have an EXCELLENT quotation to trot out:

There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion.

~Lord Acton

360 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:07:57pm

re: #320 winston06

religious dimwit

You may wonder why LGF sometimes gets a rap as anti-religion.

/say hello to Mr. Poster Child

361 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:08:00pm

re: #346 mich-again

wtf?

362 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:08:04pm

re: #319 MandyManners

re: #321 goddessoftheclassroom

re: #324 Dustyvet

re: #326 winston06

Dude/tte? You for real? I am reading your comments and your anger toward those who are religious must have some dark geneses. I am sorry for whatever some religious person may have done to you at whatever point.

Relax. No one is here to hurt you.

363 carefulnow  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:08:07pm

re: #114 Dustyvet

Ouch!

364 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:08:11pm

re: #324 Dustyvet

If you get a helmet near by, I suggest you put it on, it getting ugly in here...

More than a helmet is suggested since we have a feces-flinging troll here at the moment.

365 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:08:14pm

re: #352 Guanxi88

Hear! Hear! While we're sitting here ripping little bits off each other, the Illuminati, the Bilderbergers, and Irish are all hard at work.

You forgot the Masons.

366 Ojoe  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:08:16pm

re: #355 winston06

Did you create yourself?

367 Guanxi88  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:08:48pm

re: #365 MandyManners

You forgot the Masons.

We're trying to keep their involvement quiet, lest it stir up panic.

368 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:09:00pm

This guy is relying on the Leuchter report and has recommended the Protocols of Zion for "men [who] want to know the truth". You don't get much more antisemitic than this guy, even though of course he denies it. What a complete loon.

369 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:09:12pm

re: #343 A Kiwi Infidel

You are an idiot. I cannot see your thoughts, so therefore, according to your logic, you do not exist.

Oh, if only that were true! ;)

370 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:09:17pm

re: #356 redc1c4

I am not an Atheist myself. I just don't believe in any thing phony like god or allah or whatever u call it. I am a free thinking individual. I belong to no special group or religion. again, I think the idea of god and man made religions is stupid at its best

371 nyc redneck  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:09:28pm

re: #258 winston06

u showed to be a bigot when I said something disapproving about ur fake god. not me...

winston06, wtf is wrong w/ you.
seriously, have you been drinking.
i have never seen you behave this way.

372 Bloodnok  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:09:32pm

re: #362 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I like FBV.

373 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:09:51pm

re: #343 A Kiwi Infidel

I have the same feelings for you

374 Wishing  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:10:03pm

re: #293 Sunlight

Spill it, please. I've learned about this from both sides, but I want to hear how Wishing would summarize it. Please note, folks, that we live on this earth and silence in the face of this bishop's fairy tale means agreement. Even if he is evaluated in whatever afterlife is relevant to each individual, the fact of his and potentially the Pope's incitement on this earth and its effects on other groups needs to be loudly addressed by his co-religionists. If they don't agree with it.

I am not quite sure what you are asking for, but the Council of Nicea in 325CE/AD pretty much made it illegal to have anything to do with with Jews, if you believed in Jesus. The date of Passover was fixed, so as to be separate from the Jewish calender. I think about 1500 *clerics* of the church were invited to attend, but not one was a Jew. A quote from Constantine, who convened the Council:
"... it appeared an unworthy thing that in the celebration of this most holy festival we should follow the practice of the Jews, who have impiously defiled their hands with enormous sin, and are, therefore, deservedly afflicted with blindness of soul. ... Let us then have nothing in common with the detestable Jewish crowd; for we have received from our Saviour a different way." Link

375 Opinionated  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:10:07pm

Simple follow up question to Germans paid reparations because "the Germans have a guilt complex for having gassed six millions Jews but six million Jews were not gassed"

Why do the Germans have a guilt complex for something they didn't do and where do the Jews hide the giant mind altering ray gun that penetrated the German brain causing unjustified guilt complexes?

376 David IV of Georgia  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:10:13pm

Excommunication has various degrees of punishment. Is he still allowed to wear clerical clothing and use the title of bishop?

377 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:10:33pm

re: #371 nyc redneck

LoL... I am fine. I just get irritated when people want to shove their phony god in someone else's throat.

378 Randall Gross  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:10:39pm

re: #351 Ojoe

Yesterday was Bobby Burn's birthday I believe.

Fair fa' your honest, sonsie face,
Great chieftain o' the pudding-race!
Aboon them a' yet tak your place,
Painch, tripe, or thairm:
Weel are ye wordy o'a grace
As lang's my arm.

The groaning trencher there ye fill,
Your hurdies like a distant hill,
Your pin was help to mend a mill
In time o'need,
While thro' your pores the dews distil
Like amber bead.

His knife see rustic Labour dight,
An' cut you up wi' ready sleight,
Trenching your gushing entrails bright,
Like ony ditch;
And then, O what a glorious sight,
Warm-reekin', rich

!

379 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:10:39pm

re: #366 Ojoe

Did you create yourself?

He did stay at a Holiday Inn.

380 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:10:45pm

re: #358 kcladderman

I can't see Canada from where i live it must not exist.

That reminds me of the nun in my daddy's seminar in Chemistry at Stanford back in the 50s (we lived in a Quonset hut that summer, and I loved it). She asked the teacher how we could know those tiny things in an atom were really there. The teacher said, "Sister, don't you believe in some things you can't see?" The nun said, "Touche."

381 rwmofo  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:10:47pm

I've just been sitting in the background for a while and a twist on the Miranda ruling came to mind:

"You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can be used to prove what an idiot you are."

Somebody said a couple things that, at first, sounded like things that could have been taken the wrong way - maybe needed a little clarification. Then they repeatedly made statements to reinforce their idiocy.

382 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:10:57pm

re: #339 Racer X

I am positive you are not Amish. I have no proof of it, but I have faith that you are not Amish.

383 Dustyvet  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:12:13pm

re: #364 FurryOldGuyJeans

More than a helmet is suggested since we have a feces-flinging troll here at the moment.

Yup..Getting my poncho

384 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:12:17pm

re: #370 winston06

I am not an Atheist myself. I just don't believe in any thing phony like god or allah or whatever u call it. I am a free thinking individual. I belong to no special group or religion. again, I think the idea of god and man made religions is stupid at its best

Um, dear. thinking that "the idea of god and man made religions is stupid at its best" is the definition of atheism: from the Greek, a- (without) + theism (God).

385 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:12:19pm

Oh, and residing in Germany, I cannot play the video in Charles' post: "This video is not available in your country or domain".

386 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:12:22pm

re: #350 goddessoftheclassroom

With respect, Amish is the one sect to which you COULDN'T belong and be able to post here! :)

Please don't tell "the family".

387 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:13:01pm

re: #377 winston06

LoL... I am fine. I just get irritated when people want to shove their phony god in someone else's throat.


I have read the whole thread, No one has tried to shove anything down your throat, Yet.

388 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:13:09pm

re: #355 winston06

like I said... prove there's a god. lol

You keep blessing me with your attentions. Why am I such a beneficiary?

389 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:13:19pm

re: #385 000G

Oh, and residing in Germany, I cannot play the video in Charles' post: "This video is not available in your country or domain".

/that's because what he says in the video is a crime in Germany

390 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:13:20pm

[Link: www.enotes.com...]

Crimes of Catholic church (aside from Child molesting and holocaust denial)

391 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:13:30pm

re: #377 winston06

LoL... I am fine. I just get irritated when people want to shove their phony god in someone else's throat.

Relax, kid. No one wants to do that. You are in Canada now. Something tells me that was not always the case, and at some point, someone did try to do that.

392 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:13:53pm

re: #387 DEZes

read it again. Deny there is a god and they'll try to convert you like Mullahs do. LoL

393 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:13:57pm

re: #385 000G

Oh, and residing in Germany, I cannot play the video in Charles' post: "This video is not available in your country or domain".

Is it because he's a Holocaust denier?

394 BatGuano  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:13:59pm

I just watched that and my is near my shoelaces

395 Guanxi88  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:14:12pm

Late to this food-fight, so lemme see if I got it right:

Whack-job anti-semite has had his excommunication reversed. Guy's Holocaust Denier/ 9-11 Troofer (Two great tastes that taste great together; "Hey, you got your antisemitism in my paranoia!" "Hey, you got your paranoia on my antisemitism"). So far, clear enough.

And then, it looks like a full-on throwdown developed among the Lizards. What happened, exactly?

396 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:14:12pm

re: #391 Catttt

kid? come on man. I ain't a kid. LoL

397 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:14:19pm

re: #392 winston06

read it again. Deny there is a god and they'll try to convert you like Mullahs do. LoL

Links, please.

398 hazzyday  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:14:27pm

re: #284 winston06

I don't claim there is a god. the burden of the proof rests with those who claim there is one.

Immature statement. The only person who can prove there is a God to you is you. That is the nature of the business. Asking people to prove it to you is distracting the arguement. You accept a priest as your intercessor based on faith or you do it yourself.

There are plenty of ways to prove the existence to yourself. Just that most non believers are afraid to venture forth. It's safer to remain in a Godless shell and let others do the yeoman's work.

399 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:14:29pm

re: #351 Ojoe

Yesterday was Bobby Burn's birthday I believe.

Today. The 25th.

"To A Mouse, on Turning Her Up in Her Nest, With The Plough"

400 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:14:34pm

re: #370 winston06

I am not an Atheist myself. I just don't believe in any thing phony like god or allah or whatever u call it. I am a free thinking individual. I belong to no special group or religion. again, I think the idea of god and man made religions is stupid at its best

Thats not quite correct. You are a member of the Order of the Inflamed Rectal Orifice. You just need to learn the handshake.

401 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:15:02pm

re: #384 goddessoftheclassroom

Um, dear. thinking that "the idea of god and man made religions is stupid at its best" is the definition of atheism: from the Greek, a- (without) + theism (God).

Quit confusing him with facts, will ya? ;)

402 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:15:04pm

re: #400 maddogg

Thats not quite correct. You are a member of the Order of the Inflamed Rectal Orifice. You just need to learn the handshake.

Are you sure they shake hands?

403 Sunlight  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:15:07pm

re: #314 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hi everybody. Just home from Church! What's happening?

food fight

404 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:15:18pm

re: #359 Catttt

Hold on - I have an EXCELLENT quotation to trot out:

There are two things which cannot be attacked in front: ignorance and narrow-mindedness. They can only be shaken by the simple development of the contrary qualities. They will not bear discussion.

~Lord Acton

I hearted this and warn you that I may link to it in the future. If I had a blog, it would be at the top.

405 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:15:26pm

re: #388 FurryOldGuyJeans

something tells me you are the god. If yes, then you must have your head checked

406 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:15:26pm

re: #388 FurryOldGuyJeans

You keep blessing me with your attentions. Why am I such a beneficiary?

maybe he likes Furries

407 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:15:41pm

re: #396 winston06

kid? come on man. I ain't a kid. LoL

Enjoy it! :D

408 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:15:50pm

re: #402 goddessoftheclassroom

they shake feet

409 BatGuano  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:15:53pm

re: #394 BatGuano

My jaw is near my shoelaces.

PIMF

410 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:16:10pm

re: #407 Catttt

i try

411 Abu Al-Poopypants  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:16:23pm

re: #396 winston06

kid? come on man. I ain't a kid. LoL

You come across like one; I mean who else uses "ur" and "u" all the time like a kid on their parent-provided computer or cellphone? Not to mention the look-at-me attitude.

412 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:16:35pm

re: #390 winston06

Well since we are painting with broad brushes, Anti-Semitism in Canada

413 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:16:41pm

re: #399 rightymouse

Today. The 25th.

"To A Mouse, on Turning Her Up in Her Nest, With The Plough"

Didn't that poem go...

"EEK! Oh my Goodness a mouse! KILL IT! KILL IT! KILL IT! I'm feeling faint! I hate those little bastards!"

Didn't rhyme though.

414 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:16:42pm

re: #377 winston06

LoL... I am fine. I just get irritated when people want to shove their phony god in someone else's throat.

Winston, you've been around here long enough to know that lizards don't address one another as you have this day.

415 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:16:53pm

I read, many years ago, Thy Brother's Blood, by Malcolm Hay, a Catholic priest, which details the Church history of anti-Semitism from the early Church up to the Holocaust.

416 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:17:00pm

re: #340 LeePro

Firefox cannot find the server on your link. (I am having huge problems with my dsl dropping off so must turn it off and reboot). Back in a few.

I have really been missing Pope John Paul II.

417 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:17:18pm

re: #412 mich-again

what r u tryin to say?

418 Dustyvet  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:17:30pm

re: #403 Sunlight

food fight

Youtube Video
419 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:17:38pm

re: #405 winston06

something tells me you are the god. If yes, then you must have your head checked

Sorry, I ain't Obama.

Really, I have to insist you not keep blessing me. I am getting embarrassed by the wealth of stupidity you keep giving me.

420 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:18:03pm

re: #414 unrealizedviewpoint

I just called the Catholic church full of child abusing priests. whats wrong with it? It's a fact

421 nyc redneck  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:18:10pm

re: #405 winston06

something tells me you are the god. If yes, then you must have your head checked

winston06, you need a time out or it is going to be curtains for you.
you need to wipe your nose and shut your mouth.
right now.

422 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:18:22pm

I saw this sad looking old moonbat last week, and on his crappy minivan were about 40 very anti-religious bumper stickers and I asked myself, why does he give a shit about something that he thinks is such a waste of time to spend so much time, effort and money decorating his car attacking it ?

I think scrapbooking and stamp collecting are complete wastes of time, but there isn't one anti scrapbooking bumper sticker on my car

423 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:18:27pm

re: #417 winston06

what r u tryin to say?

Quit the fucking text-ese. This is not Romper Room.

424 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:18:38pm

re: #392 winston06

read it again. Deny there is a god and they'll try to convert you like Mullahs do. LoL

This has to be your stupidest post yet (today).

Keep them coming. I got popcorn and beer.

425 Sunlight  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:18:56pm

re: #323 yesandno

I stay off the discussions of religion. Everyone has an opinion. Few discuss it from a passive side.

Because the Pope allows the men a path to God, I doubt he is supporting all the man believes. The Pope probably recognized he is a sinner...as the Pope is himself. But the Church is really larger then it's hierarchy in many cases. If one was really dogmatic about things, the Church could ex-communicate everyone who practices birth control outside of the rhythm method.

In any large organization there are people who don't represent the institution in the best possible light, who ideas seem in exact opposition to the mission statement as it were....look at our own government, i.e., the Supreme Court members that think World laws should influence US law and the interpretation our Constitution. A divergence with original purpose to say the least.

Yet we all have a belief that as long as WE are faithful to the original intent, then the government will eventually return to that purpose. No really different from remaining faithful to the teachings of the Church, not to the flawed members of it.

The Church is not just what comes down, some if it is ideas that travel upward. Don't condem it all because it doesn't agree with your way of thinking how things should be.

Puh-leeeez... your passivity in the face of this bishop's incitement is... well, doesn't speak well for your philosophy in regards to THIS EARTH and the right of diverse people to SURVIVE ON THIS EARTH.

426 Lynn B.  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:18:57pm

re: #274 winston06

European Catholics are notorious for their anti-Jewish sentiments. They aided Nazis in eliminating the Jews.

Your ignorance is truly astounding.

“It should not be concealed that the Catholic Church was blind for too long to the fate and suffering of men, women and children from the whole of Europe who were carted off to Germany as forced laborers,” Cardinal Karl Lehmann said at the presentation of the report.

Catholics and Protestants were subject to oppression under the Nazis, but aside from some notable voices of opposition from each church, they generally went along with the regime.

ON THE OTHER HAND ...

The SS expropriated more than 300 monasteries and Catholic institutions from 1940 to 1942, and thousands of Catholics were sent to concentration camps, said Karl-Joseph Hummel, a historian and a co-author of the report.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

427 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:19:00pm

come to think of it, winston do you drive a crappy maroon minivan ?

428 tokyobk  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:19:03pm

re: #384 goddessoftheclassroom

Um, dear. thinking that "the idea of god and man made religions is stupid at its best" is the definition of atheism: from the Greek, a- (without) + theism (God).

He may believe as I do that human attempts thus far to describe God are absurd at best and have often been very harmful.

On this issue, the idea that it is illegal to deny the holocaust in Germany is unfortunate. Being drummed out of polite society, yes. Thrown in jail? Absurd and dangerous.

If I might also say, I think believing that a lone assassin killed Kennedy requires more credulity than a conspiracy.

429 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:19:23pm

re: #417 winston06

what r u tryin to say?

Sux 2 b u.

430 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:19:25pm

re: #420 winston06

I just called the Catholic church full of child abusing priests. whats wrong with it? It's a fact

"Full of" implies the majority. The majority of priests are not pedophiles.

431 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:19:38pm

re: #411 Abu Al-Poopypants

lol. it is to save time when u r typing. are you very old not to know these?

432 rwmofo  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:19:57pm

re: #400 maddogg

Thats not quite correct. You are a member of the Order of the Inflamed Rectal Orifice. You just need to learn the handshake.

LOL

433 Lynn B.  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:19:59pm

re: #231 buzzsawmonkey

He talks about residual cyanide in clothes.

There are mounds of testimony from both Nazis and survivors that the prisoners slated to be gassed were sent to "shower" facilities, naked, ostensibly for de-lousing--precisely to avoid danger from such residual deposits of gas.

Yes.

434 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:19:59pm

Moral relativism, Vatican style.

435 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:20:27pm

re: #417 winston06

what r u tryin to say?

I'm just using your tactics.

436 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:20:51pm

re: #358 kcladderman

no idiot. it is on the map.

437 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:20:55pm

re: #420 winston06

I just called the Catholic church full of child abusing priests. whats wrong with it? It's a fact

No! It's not a fact. You're being disgusting now. The perpetrators accounted for a minuscule percentage of Catholic Priests. You're just here to inflame.

438 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:21:12pm

re: #430 MandyManners

"Full of" implies the majority. The majority of priests are not pedophiles.

Might as smear all atheists with the "Charles Manson was a murderer, so all atheists are murderers" illogic nut.

439 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:21:15pm

re: #435 mich-again

good on u

440 Guanxi88  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:21:32pm

re: #431 winston06

lol. it is to save time when u r typing. are you very old not to know these?

"Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever,you keep talking." - Hank Hill

Seriously, Winston, what's gotten into you today? Always thought you were a fairly decent sort, but this thread...

441 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:21:43pm

re: #437 unrealizedviewpoint

so stating facts got someone's religious feelings hurt. eh?

442 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:22:16pm

re: #440 Guanxi88

religious bigots irritate me

443 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:22:27pm

re: #441 winston06

so stating facts got someone's religious feelings hurt. eh?

/linky please

444 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:22:30pm

re: #420 winston06

I just called the Catholic church full of child abusing priests. whats wrong with it? It's a fact

"full of" means every single priest. That accusation is as crazy as 9/11 trufer talk.

445 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:22:42pm

re: #442 winston06

religious bigots irritate me

You must irritate yourself a lot, then.

446 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:22:45pm

re: #440 Guanxi88

"Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever,you keep talking." - Hank Hill

Seriously, Winston, what's gotten into you today? Always thought you were a fairly decent sort, but this thread...

At the opening Bell today Winston was trading at 36 dollars a share, but was recently sold for just under a nickle a share.

I sold short way up thread

447 Opinionated  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:22:47pm

In ancient biblical times there was no scientific proof to anything. Evidence was based on eye witness testimony only.

In fact the entire reason that this clown pretends to be a believer -and a bishop yet- is on the basis of eye witness testimony of event that the witnesses say occurred 2000 years ago. And by the way, all those witnesses were Jewish.

So isn't it strange that this guy- and all the deniers- choose to ignore the eye witness testimony not only of surviving victims, but of liberators and even the perpetrators themselves.

448 Sunlight  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:23:03pm

re: #374 Wishing

I am not quite sure what you are asking for, but the Council of Nicea in 325CE/AD pretty much made it illegal to have anything to do with with Jews, if you believed in Jesus. The date of Passover was fixed, so as to be separate from the Jewish calender. I think about 1500 *clerics* of the church were invited to attend, but not one was a Jew. A quote from Constantine, who convened the Council:
"... it appeared an unworthy thing that in the celebration of this most holy festival we should follow the practice of the Jews, who have impiously defiled their hands with enormous sin, and are, therefore, deservedly afflicted with blindness of soul. ... Let us then have nothing in common with the detestable Jewish crowd; for we have received from our Saviour a different way." Link

And yet, they kept lots of good stuff... kadosh, kadosh, kadosh, etc.

449 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:23:04pm

re: #413 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Didn't that poem go...

"EEK! Oh my Goodness a mouse! KILL IT! KILL IT! KILL IT! I'm feeling faint! I hate those little bastards!"

Didn't rhyme though.

Actually, Burns felt quite bad about this ploughing up the mouse nest.

WEE, sleekit, cow’rin, tim’rous beastie,
O, what a panic’s in thy breastie!
Thou need na start awa sae hasty,
Wi’ bickering brattle!
I wad be laith to rin an’ chase thee,
Wi’ murd’ring pattle!

I’m truly sorry man’s dominion,
Has broken nature’s social union,
An’ justifies that ill opinion,
Which makes thee startle
At me, thy poor, earth-born companion,
An’ fellow-mortal!

I doubt na, whiles, but thou may thieve;
What then? poor beastie, thou maun live!
A daimen icker in a thrave
’S a sma’ request;
I’ll get a blessin wi’ the lave,
An’ never miss’t!

Thy wee bit housie, too, in ruin!
It’s silly wa’s the win’s are strewin!
An’ naething, now, to big a new ane,
O’ foggage green!
An’ bleak December’s winds ensuin,
Baith snell an’ keen!

Thou saw the fields laid bare an’ waste,
An’ weary winter comin fast,
An’ cozie here, beneath the blast,
Thou thought to dwell—
Till crash! the cruel coulter past
Out thro’ thy cell.

That wee bit heap o’ leaves an’ stibble,
Has cost thee mony a weary nibble!
Now thou’s turn’d out, for a’ thy trouble,
But house or hald,
To thole the winter’s sleety dribble,
An’ cranreuch cauld!

But, Mousie, thou art no thy lane,
In proving foresight may be vain;
The best-laid schemes o’ mice an’ men
Gang aft agley,
An’lea’e us nought but grief an’ pain,
For promis’d joy!

Still thou art blest, compar’d wi’ me
The present only toucheth thee:
But, Och! I backward cast my e’e.
On prospects drear!
An’ forward, tho’ I canna see,
I guess an’ fear!

450 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:23:08pm

re: #441 winston06

so stating facts got someone's religious feelings hurt. eh?

I believe you have just lost the respect of this community.

451 solomonpanting  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:23:09pm

re: #280 winston06

I am not upset at all. I am neither a believer nor a religious zealot. Like I said, you need to prove there's a god then we can continue this discussion over phony religions and their anti-humanity ideas.

Sometimes anti-religious zealots are greater than or equal to religious zealots. Right, Mr Newdow?

452 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:23:30pm

re: #445 FurryOldGuyJeans

I dont believe in phony man made religions. how hard is it to understand?

453 debutaunt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:23:32pm

re: #216 DEZes

Well said!

Today is boycott the 'an' word day.

454 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:23:41pm

re: #420 winston06

I just called the Catholic church full of child abusing priests. whats wrong with it? It's a fact

Not, it's not.

Percentage wise it is extremely low compared to other "religions". Again, there are millions of priests and a few hundred have done horrible things (and should have been punished far worse than they were).

Compare that to Islam:
Mo was a pedophile.
Imams to this day advocate child rape.
Homosexual child rape is rampant.

Pick a better target, son.

455 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:23:44pm

re: #442 winston06

religious bigots irritate me

So, let me get this straight, if someone believes in religion, they're a bigot.

/is that about right?

456 rwmofo  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:23:45pm

re: #420 winston06

I just called the Catholic church full of child abusing priests. whats wrong with it? It's a fact

Congratulations. You've officially burned more bridges than you could have possibly imagined - and I'm not a Catholic.

457 hazzyday  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:23:46pm

re: #280 winston06

I am not upset at all. I am neither a believer nor a religious zealot. Like I said, you need to prove there's a god then we can continue this discussion over phony religions and their anti-humanity ideas.

No one needs to prove there is a God in order to have a discussion. You're pre loading your argument here with the words phony and anti-humanity. What are the religions you consider phony? And what are the ideas you consider anti-humanity? I might have missed them if they are in the thread.

What we do see are people talking like this as a projection of their emotions. They live by an unreasonable hatred. And they assume there are other people in the world like themselves. Thus KoS.

You are best to apologize and start over.

458 David IV of Georgia  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:23:50pm

re: #231 buzzsawmonkey

He talks about residual cyanide in clothes.

There are mounds of testimony from both Nazis and survivors that the prisoners slated to be gassed were sent to "shower" facilities, naked, ostensibly for de-lousing--precisely to avoid danger from such residual deposits of gas.

Having them take off their clothing also made it easier to rob them of those clothes.
What a sad man, this "bishop" (said with full patronization).

459 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:24:04pm

Time for some DANCING, people!

Youtube Video
460 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:24:08pm

re: #450 unrealizedviewpoint

this community or religious hardliners?

461 Cathypop  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:24:37pm

re: #421 nyc redneck

winston06, you need a time out or it is going to be curtains for you.
you need to wipe your nose and shut your mouth.
right now.


I agree

462 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:24:38pm

re: #455 Killian Bundy

nope. as long as they keep it to themselves and dont try to shove it in someone else's throat.

463 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:24:43pm

re: #447 Opinionated

In ancient biblical times there was no scientific proof to anything. Evidence was based on eye witness testimony only.

In fact the entire reason that this clown pretends to be a believer -and a bishop yet- is on the basis of eye witness testimony of event that the witnesses say occurred 2000 years ago. And by the way, all those witnesses were Jewish.

So isn't it strange that this guy- and all the deniers- choose to ignore the eye witness testimony not only of surviving victims, but of liberators and even the perpetrators themselves.

Which is funny, since they believe without question, all the "eye-witness testimony" of random Palestinians who claim they saw the IDF wipe out a nursery school of 5,000 children.

464 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:24:56pm

re: #452 winston06

I dont believe in phony man made religions. how hard is it to understand?

Real easy. But you have a hard time understanding what anyone else is saying.

465 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:25:07pm

re: #450 unrealizedviewpoint

I believe you have just lost the respect of this community.

Exactly!

466 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:25:46pm

re: #450 unrealizedviewpoint

I believe you have just lost the respect of this community.

I don't think he ever had mine, and now I know he doesn't.

467 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:25:48pm

re: #450 unrealizedviewpoint

who appointed to be the spokesperson of this COMMUNITY?

468 Guanxi88  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:25:49pm

re: #441 winston06

so stating facts got someone's religious feelings hurt. eh?

Look, I didn't want to get involved in this, but I think I need to:

Winston, carrying on like this is not a good idea. Antisemitism is a nasty, pernicious disease, and should be fought wherever and whenever it shows up. All decent people agree with that.

But, in trying to combat this evil, you have apparently developed an aniums toward religion in general, and Catholicism in particular, that is simply irrational. The more you fling feces and go ape on them, the more you reinforce the image of the Jew as a hater of Christianity.

You and I both know that's one of the major arguments used in religiously-oriented antisemitic circles. Why argue their point for them?

OR:

Winston's account has been hacked, and it's just some jackass spouting off. I could go with either theory.

469 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:26:01pm

re: #466 FurryOldGuyJeans

i m proud

470 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:26:24pm

re: #462 winston06

nope. as long as they keep it to themselves and dont try to shove it in someone else's throat.


based on your first comment on this thread I respectfully call Bullshit

64 winston06
1/25/09 12:16:27 pm reply quote 0downupfavoritereport

Disgusting. These religious people are mentally deranged. i am proud to be a non believer and a more sane person.

471 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:26:25pm

re: #460 winston06

this community or religious hardliners?

Let's start with me, and I'm no hardliner. I haven't been to Church in 20 years, and probably won't for 20 more.

472 onepistoffyid  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:26:38pm

As a jew with many many catholic friends and neighbors, I would hope there would be HUGE demonstrations against this reinstatement worlwide, certainly in the USA......we shall see.

473 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:26:49pm

re: #468 Guanxi88

Antisemitism is ugly and horrible

474 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:26:50pm

re: #462 winston06

nope. as long as they keep it to themselves and dont try to shove it in someone else's throat.

No one here has tried to shove anything down your throat.

Up your ass maybe.

475 Sunlight  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:26:52pm

re: #395 Guanxi88

Late to this food-fight, so lemme see if I got it right:

Whack-job anti-semite has had his excommunication reversed. Guy's Holocaust Denier/ 9-11 Troofer (Two great tastes that taste great together; "Hey, you got your antisemitism in my paranoia!" "Hey, you got your paranoia on my antisemitism"). So far, clear enough.

And then, it looks like a full-on throwdown developed among the Lizards. What happened, exactly?

I think everybody wants that bishop shunned, not re-hugged. With different scapegoats outlined for that not happening. It's so very sad...

476 Bloodnok  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:26:56pm

This is tiresome. Thanks Winston for derailing a thread. It must be gratifying to have a thread be entirely about you/. BBL.

477 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:27:02pm

re: #471 unrealizedviewpoint

good for u

478 Abu Al-Poopypants  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:27:07pm

re: #431 winston06

lol. it is to save time when u r typing. are you very old not to know these?

OK, ur actn lk a fng mrn.

479 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:27:17pm

re: #476 Bloodnok

my pleasure

480 tokyobk  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:27:29pm

This goy, does however, think the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are authentic. Oy Vey.

481 Dustyvet  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:27:29pm

re: #461 Cathypop

I agree

Same here...

482 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:27:43pm

re: #478 Abu Al-Poopypants

i didn't know lgf allowed people to use foul language on here. good to know.

483 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:27:46pm

re: #462 winston06

nope. as long as they keep it to themselves and dont try to shove it in someone else's throat.

WTF are you talking about? Linky please.

/last I looked, you're the only one being offensive to others on this thread

484 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:27:52pm

re: #469 winston06

i m proud

Aren't you special.

485 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:28:12pm

re: #484 FurryOldGuyJeans

i am

486 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:28:13pm

re: #480 tokyobk

This goy, does however, think the Protocols of the Elders of Zion are authentic. Oy Vey.

He does?

487 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:28:25pm

re: #467 winston06

who appointed to be the spokesperson of this COMMUNITY?

All lizards are spokespersons, except you, today.

488 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:28:34pm

re: #483 Killian Bundy

link? what link do u want? Can't you use google.com?

489 tokyobk  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:28:36pm

Yes, its in the wiki. Whatta jerk.

490 Shay4l  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:28:36pm

re: #428 tokyobk

If I might also say, I think believing that a lone assassin killed Kennedy requires more credulity than a conspiracy.

The wall fell, records have been opened, Mafia Dons imprisoned or passed away.... No records of conspiracy.

The only actor that has not been opened to scrutiny is Castro. It may explain why we continue to embargo Cuba to this day.

HOWEVER, I live in Dallas. From the book depository window to the street is about the same distance from where I sit to my neighbor's house across the street, and it isn't a wide street.

If a marine could not make that shot, he would not have been considered a marksman.

491 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:28:37pm

re: #440 Guanxi88

"Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever,you keep talking." - Hank Hill

Seriously, Winston, what's gotten into you today? Always thought you were a fairly decent sort, but this thread...


They have a tendency to 'out' themselves sooner or later.

492 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:28:42pm

re: #476 Bloodnok

This is tiresome. Thanks Winston for derailing a thread. It must be gratifying to have a thread be entirely about you/. BBL.

Agreed.

GAZE mode on.

493 Opinionated  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:28:55pm

re: #459 Catttt

Youtube keeps this crap but they recently removed the very entertaining dance during the closing credits for Slumdog Millionaire.

494 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:28:56pm

re: #487 unrealizedviewpoint

You got ego problem?

495 Guanxi88  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:28:57pm

re: #473 winston06

Antisemitism is ugly and horrible

Okay, so why give fuel to the fire? I know, we're going to be hated regardless, but why piss off the folks who are among the best and strongest advocates for Israel and her people? Not good tactics, to say the least.

496 ryannon  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:29:35pm

re: #323 yesandno

I stay off the discussions of religion. Everyone has an opinion. Few discuss it from a passive side.

Because the Pope allows the men a path to God, I doubt he is supporting all the man believes. The Pope probably recognized he is a sinner...as the Pope is himself. But the Church is really larger then it's hierarchy in many cases. If one was really dogmatic about things, the Church could ex-communicate everyone who practices birth control outside of the rhythm method.

In any large organization there are people who don't represent the institution in the best possible light, who ideas seem in exact opposition to the mission statement as it were....look at our own government, i.e., the Supreme Court members that think World laws should influence US law and the interpretation our Constitution. A divergence with original purpose to say the least.

Yet we all have a belief that as long as WE are faithful to the original intent, then the government will eventually return to that purpose. No really different from remaining faithful to the teachings of the Church, not to the flawed members of it.

The Church is not just what comes down, some if it is ideas that travel upward. Don't condem it all because it doesn't agree with your way of thinking how things should be.

It's as if the Pope (the Church) has given legitimacy to this clown's beliefs. Given its clearly divisive and sensitive nature, couldn't this have been handled quietly?

People are going to take this as some sort of tacit agreement between the Pope (the Church) and the Holocaust Deniers.

497 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:29:45pm

re: #493 Opinionated

Youtube keeps this crap but they recently removed the very entertaining dance during the closing credits for Slumdog Millionaire.

It's not crap!

498 Guanxi88  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:30:13pm

re: #497 Catttt

It's not crap!

So, you're saying it's Scottish, then?

499 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:30:16pm

re: #495 Guanxi88

All I said was that Catholic church is full of a lot of child molesting priests and a few hardliners took offense. What's wrong with stating the facts about the problem of child abuse within Catholic church?

People are jumpy

500 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:30:24pm
Williamson has not been reinstated as a Catholic bishop, he’s been “un-excommunicated,” which allows him to receive communion in the Catholic church. And it’s still wrong.

The Catholic church has never had much problems with freaks like these (especially irritating the catholic priests who helped nazi war criminals flee after WW2, like Alois Hudal, Krunoslav Draganović and Giuseppe Siri). As the Vatican spokesman Federico Lombardi put it: He's not a heretic, even though he is a liar.

What good is a christian church in any kind of interfaith-dialogue that gives the thumbs up to holocaust deniers and other antisemitic creeps? It's like these protest demonstrations for peace where the organizers are okay with neonazis and Hamas activists marching along.

501 Opinionated  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:30:36pm

re: #463 Alouette

Which is funny, since they believe without question, all the "eye-witness testimony" of random Palestinians who claim they saw the IDF wipe out a nursery school of 5,000 children.

I bet he would acknowledge that there was a "Holocaust" in Gaza.

502 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:30:37pm

re: #473 winston06

Antisemitism is ugly and horrible

And your Nation is full of it.

After all, by your logic if the group includes some, it is full of them.

503 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:30:50pm

re: #473 winston06

Antisemitism is ugly and horrible

What is the difference between hate of a Jew and hate of a Catholic?

504 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:30:58pm

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Catholic sex abuse cases

505 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:31:15pm

re: #502 mich-again

go away moron...

506 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:31:17pm

re: #498 Guanxi88

So, you're saying it's Scottish, then?

Exactly. ;p

507 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:31:43pm

re: #499 winston06

All I said was that Catholic church is full of a lot of child molesting priests and a few hardliners took offense. What's wrong with stating the facts about the problem of child abuse within Catholic church?

People are jumpy

Again, the wording "full of" implies a majority. THAT is what pissed off people.

508 Guanxi88  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:31:47pm

re: #499 winston06

All I said was that Catholic church is full of a lot of child molesting priests and a few hardliners took offense. What's wrong with stating the facts about the problem of child abuse within Catholic church?

People are jumpy

Might as well say the shuls are full of money-grubbing lawyers. Are there some there? Yes, there are some everywhere. Same deal with the pedos.

Did the Catholic Church fail earlier to deal with it? Absolutely, and the last Pope himself said as much.

509 hazzyday  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:31:48pm

re: #462 winston06

nope. as long as they keep it to themselves and dont try to shove it in someone else's throat.

As other have posted you do seem young. Be specific.

510 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:31:48pm

re: #503 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What is the difference between hate of a Jew and hate of a Catholic?

One is something he hates, and the other is something he likes.

511 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:31:50pm

re: #503 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I don't hate any one. I dislike the heads of the Catholic church.

512 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:32:11pm

re: #507 MandyManners

that's their problem not mine.

513 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:32:18pm

I can't understand how the Pope could countenance this man when Williamson himself says the Vatican (and presumably thus Benedict XVI himself) is "under the power of Satan". Pope John Paul II himself confirmed the excommunication. Has Benedict lost his mind?

514 Haverwilde  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:32:22pm

re: #482 winston06

i didn't know lgf allowed people to use foul language on here. good to know.

Well folks I think winston07 borrowed his dad's computer. Boy I expect winston06 is going to be angry with his teenage son when he comes home and finds out how much Karma the kid has cost him.

515 notutopia  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:32:38pm

Thanos, Kilgore, Many Thanks for the info links on
Marcel-François Lefebvre.
I will go search and read more on the Vatican's history of condoning acts of blatant anti-semitism.

Shame on you Winston, you thread hog. We were actually sharing and learning valuable information to help us become aware and fight schmucks like this bishop, until you decided YOUR agenda was more important.
Fuck you Winston.

Shit! that cost me $20.

BBL

516 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:32:47pm

re: #512 winston06

that's their problem not mine.

You drunk? Because you totally sound drunk.

517 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:32:49pm

re: #389 Killian Bundy

/that's because what he says in the video is a crime in Germany

Yes, I know (and I believe the state attorneys are already after him). I am just surprised YouTube actually gets involved here. I've repeatedly flagged similiar crap by Horst Mahler on YouTube and nothing ever happened.

518 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:32:50pm

re: #499 winston06

All I said was that Catholic church is full of a lot of child molesting priests and a few hardliners took offense. What's wrong with stating the facts about the problem of child abuse within Catholic church?


Bullshit. Now you added a word or two and changed the whole meaning of the inflammatory post. Gutless on your part.

519 Cathypop  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:33:04pm

re: #499 winston06

All I said was that Catholic church is full of a lot of child molesting priests and a few hardliners took offense. What's wrong with stating the facts about the problem of child abuse within Catholic church?

People are jumpy

I have no problem with facts but this is not like you to go off so crazy. What happened to bring this on? And don't go on about people being jumpy.

520 tokyobk  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:33:10pm

Shay, I will take a look. Maybe you are right. I have nothing invested in it politically just always seemed to me that Kennedy was reckless and a genius at pissing people off, hung out with unsavory characters and Oswald strikes me as the ideal patsy. But, again, it is not a particular passion of mine.

However, when I was young and radical, "so-and-so was black" was my favorite. Did you know Beethoven was black, haha.

521 redc1c4  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:33:20pm

re: #370 winston06

I am not an Atheist myself. I just don't believe in any thing phony like god or allah or whatever u call it. I am a free thinking individual. I belong to no special group or religion. again, I think the idea of god and man made religions is stupid at its best

you're kinda loose with that term "think", aren't you?

GAZE

522 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:33:27pm

re: #505 winston06

go away moron...

Nope. Its not going to be that easy you twit.

523 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:33:32pm

re: #508 Guanxi88

It won't change my view about their crimes.

524 Sunlight  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:33:35pm

re: #452 winston06

I dont believe in phony man made religions. how hard is it to understand?

And do you believe in any non-man made religions? What is is called?

525 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:33:49pm

re: #512 winston06

that's their problem not mine.

Bullshit. It is your problem. You are the one who used the words.

526 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:33:57pm

re: #516 Catttt

i m fine dude

527 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:34:16pm

re: #488 winston06

link? what link do u want?

No, I want you to link to exactly where someone, besides you, didn't

"keep it to themselves and dont try [tried] to shove it in someone else's [your] throat".

/take your time

528 rwmofo  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:34:20pm

re: #499 winston06

All I said was that Catholic church is full of a lot of child molesting priests and a few hardliners took offense. What's wrong with stating the facts about the problem of child abuse within Catholic church?

People are jumpy

Let's use your logic. I have personally known a lot of Canadians for a long time. If I were to use you as an example, I could say that all Canadians are narrow-minded and shallow. However, I know they're not. It's just you.

529 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:34:34pm

re: #526 winston06

i m fine dude

I'm not a dude, dude. (Gotcha)

530 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:34:38pm

re: #524 Sunlight

I don't believe in any hogwash be it Atheism or Catholicism or whatever. Men are born free.

531 victor_yugo  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:34:48pm

So is it equally right to excommunicate John Kerry for refusing to oppose abortion ex officio?

532 Dustyvet  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:35:00pm

re: #515 notutopia

Thanos, Kilgore, Many Thanks for the info links on
Marcel-François Lefebvre.
I will go search and read more on the Vatican's history of condoning acts of blatant anti-semitism.

Shame on you Winston, you thread hog. We were actually sharing and learning valuable information to help us become aware and fight schmucks like this bishop, until you decided YOUR agenda was more important.
Fuck you Winston.

Shit! that cost me $20.

BBL

Tossing $5.00 in the kitty, anyone else?

533 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:35:01pm

re: #529 Catttt

how about dudette?

534 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:35:04pm
535 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:35:28pm

re: #530 winston06

I don't believe in any hogwash be it Atheism or Catholicism or whatever. Men are born free.

Wow. Thats some deep shit, man.

536 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:35:29pm

re: #524 Sunlight

And do you believe in any non-man made religions? What is is called?

This one is impervious to facts.

537 Guanxi88  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:35:40pm

re: #523 winston06

It won't change my view about their crimes.

Nor their own view of their crimes, Winston. They themselves, at their highest levels, have acknowledged the problem; diocese (spelling?) after diocese has been virtually bankrupted trying to provide financial compensation to the victims of the priests. There's nothing that can ever change what happened.

538 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:35:43pm

re: #507 MandyManners

Again, the wording "full of" implies a majority. THAT is what pissed off people.

Mandy, logic has been attempted with him. He's not being reasonable.

539 JacksonTn  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:35:48pm

re: #7 Killgore Trout

The Catholic church abandoned anything even remotely resembling moral authority long ago.

Killgore ...the Catholic church is made up of more than "some" of its leaders ...

540 J.S.  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:35:58pm

re: #526 winston06

So, winston06, whereabouts in Iran did you come from? Are you a citizen of Canada yet? do you speak Farsi?

541 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:36:05pm

re: #515 notutopia

You know, the best remedy for dealing with shameless idiots like you is silence.

542 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:36:15pm

re: #530 winston06

I don't believe in any hogwash be it Atheism or Catholicism or whatever. Men are born free.

What about women? Or are you saying you are Muslim?

543 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:36:31pm

re: #511 winston06

I dislike the heads of the Catholic church.


Backtracking again. I thought you just said the Church was full of pedophile priests, implying every one of them.

544 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:36:42pm

re: #534 buzzsawmonkey

Not so. You also started slanging religion(s) in general, "phony gods," etc., and generally behaving like an adolescent in tantrum mode.

I get this vision.

Youtube Video
545 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:36:59pm

re: #537 Guanxi88

And it makes me wonder why Catholic church has more child molesting priests than any other church.

546 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:36:59pm

re: #532 Dustyvet

Tossing $5.00 in the kitty, anyone else?


I'm out 25 already.

547 debutaunt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:37:20pm

re: #328 rightymouse

Got bourbon?

A full carafe please.

548 redc1c4  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:37:25pm

re: #532 Dustyvet

Tossing $5.00 in the kitty, anyone else?

i'm in.....

all we need is $10 more.

549 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:37:27pm

re: #525 MandyManners

Bullshit. It is your problem. You are the one who used the words.

This one is impervious to facts and logic. You would do better trying to order a wall to be the floor.

550 Guanxi88  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:37:31pm

Look, if the guy's trying to back-track and reverse or modify some of the earlier stuff, let him. I've shot my mouth off more times than I care to think about, and regretted it later. Maybe this is what happened here.

551 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:37:35pm

re: #504 winston06

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Catholic sex abuse cases

And, what was your point again?

four percent of all priests who had served in the U.S. from 1950 to 2002 faced some sort of sexual accusation

/oops, guess the Catholic church isn't "full" of pedophiles after all

552 victor_yugo  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:37:48pm

re: #541 winston06

You know, the best remedy for dealing with shameless idiots like you is silence.

Please, show us how.

553 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:38:04pm
554 solomonpanting  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:38:08pm

re: #504 winston06

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Catholic sex abuse cases

Yes, that is a sad chapter, but what does it prove? I'd try to work up a report on non-Catholic sex abuse cases, but I don't have the time for something that extensive.

555 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:38:30pm

re: #541 winston06

You know, the best remedy for dealing with shameless idiots like you is silence.

Yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!

Ur srlsly disturbing teh peace.

556 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:38:42pm

re: #545 winston06

How do you know this? Fact or opinion.

557 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:38:49pm

re: #550 Guanxi88

I am not backtracking. I still believe Catholic church is full of child abusing priests. One wonders why people take offense about those who run the corrupt churches.

558 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:38:51pm

re: #545 winston06

And it makes me wonder why Catholic church has more child molesting priests than any other church.

Prove it.

559 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:39:10pm

re: #550 Guanxi88

Look, if the guy's trying to back-track and reverse or modify some of the earlier stuff, let him. I've shot my mouth off more times than I care to think about, and regretted it later. Maybe this is what happened here.

You at least have the integrity to come right out and admit you screwed up when it happens.

560 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:39:30pm

re: #547 debutaunt

A full carafe please.

I'm out. Brandy, perhaps?

561 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:39:46pm

re: #554 solomonpanting

this thread is about a moron priest who thinks 9/11 is an inside job and holocaust never happened. I would have said the same thing if there was someone else involved.

562 notutopia  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:39:50pm

re: #541 winston06

You know, the best remedy for dealing with shameless idiots like you is silence.


Best take your own advice.
You are a fool Winston.

563 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:40:13pm

re: #558 MandyManners

Don't need to. Google.com is your friend. use it.

564 Dustyvet  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:40:18pm

CLASSIC...:)

Youtube Video
565 Haverwilde  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:40:19pm

re: #545 winston06

And it makes me wonder why Catholic church has more child molesting priests than any other church.

Wonder no more. They have the most because they are the biggest. The dirty little secret is that a lot of churches have pedophile clergy.

Of course, even Islam has their problems. It was established by a pedophiile.

566 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:40:28pm

re: #562 notutopia

so r u

567 Guanxi88  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:40:37pm

re: #545 winston06

And it makes me wonder why Catholic church has more child molesting priests than any other church.

I'm not so sure of that. Bad apples everywhere, of course, but I think more attention was brought to the matter precisely because, among Christian groups, the Catholic Church has a reputation for being ethical and moral. The shocking nature of the crimes of these few priests was what made it stand out so much.

Think of the shock if, every so often, a Lubavitcher rebbe were found drunk on Yom Kippur, eating bacon. The shock of the thing would be such as to cast doubt and suspicion on the whole lot of 'em.

568 victor_yugo  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:40:41pm

re: #563 winston06

Don't need to. Google.com is your friend. use it.

No, you made the assertion, it's up to you to prove it, or withdraw.

569 ryannon  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:40:46pm

re: #496 ryannon

It's as if the Pope (the Church) has given legitimacy to this clown's beliefs. Given its clearly divisive and sensitive nature, couldn't this have been handled quietly?
People are going to take this as some sort of tacit agreement between the Pope (the Church) and the Holocaust Deniers.


In the last analysis and for a number of the same reasons that have been given here, I agree with those who've said that he never should have been reinstated (allowed to receive Communion) at all.

570 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:40:58pm

re: #565 Haverwilde

Yep. Islamic clerics are taught to be pedophiles. trust me....

571 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:41:00pm

Winston, it's best to choose your words with a bit more care, mate. Sloppy generalisations should always be avoided.

I hope everyone can calm down. Insult contests make for pretty poor reading matter.

572 Cathypop  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:41:17pm

re: #545 winston06

And it makes me wonder why Catholic church has more child molesting priests than any other church.


Okay. Why the Catholic church has so many child molesters. How many Baptist churches have an elementary school? How many Protestant churches have an elementary school? Child molesters go where there are children and the children are taught to look up to the priests.

573 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:41:19pm

re: #563 winston06

Don't need to. Google.com is your friend. use it.

Bullshit. You alleged it. The burden of proof is on you.

574 Wishing  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:41:26pm

re: #448 Sunlight

And yet, they kept lots of good stuff... kadosh, kadosh, kadosh, etc.

That is Latin? LOLOLre: #544 MandyManners

I get this vision.


[Video]

lololol

575 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:41:26pm
576 96RoadKing  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:41:33pm

re: #532 Dustyvet

Tossing $5.00 in the kitty, anyone else?

I'll help. Put me down for $10

577 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:41:41pm

re: #563 winston06

Don't need to. Google.com is your friend. use it.

Then why do you keep DEMANDING we prove to you that there is a God? You want us to prove what we say REQUIRES you prove what you say.

578 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:41:53pm

re: #567 Guanxi88

And that shows how empty these religious groups are when it comes to moral matters. They have none of it and they keep fooling their followers.

579 itellu3times  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:42:09pm

I forget, not being Catholic - you can excommunicate, and you can un-excommunicate, but the question is, can you un-priest someone? I guess you can un-cardinal them.

580 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:42:10pm

re: #557 winston06

I still believe Catholic church is full of child abusing priests.

You again with the crazy accusation that every priest is a child abuser. Nonsense.

581 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:42:40pm

re: #580 mich-again

I am free to think like that.

582 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:42:43pm

re: #570 winston06

Yep. Islamic clerics are taught to be pedophiles. trust me....

Trust you?

Fat chance of that every happening.

583 unclassifiable  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:42:52pm

Winston,

Isn't it curious to you that man keeps coming up with religion from time immemorial?

Now you can comfort yourself by saying that it's because he is weak but what about our existence shows any weakness?

A population of 6 billion continuing to grow and thrive -- not exactly weakness eh?

And many of those achievements were spiritually inspired.

And most of that population believes in some kind of supreme divinity.

The point is that even as a non-religious person myself (I am still "seeking"), isn't your approach more about trying to elevate your own ego than to actually convince anyone here that you are right?

Trying to argue the rightness or wrongness of religion is quite pointless. You would be better off trying to argue the viability of a certain beliefs towards sustaining the human race's continuing existence. You can actually do that if you were so intellectually lazy.

584 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:42:58pm

re: #561 winston06

No Winston, this thread is about YOU. Thats what you wanted all along.

Hey everyone! LOOK AT ME!

585 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:42:59pm

re: #582 FurryOldGuyJeans

I wasnt talking to u

586 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:43:08pm
587 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:43:09pm

Its all so simple! I can't believe I haven't seen it before! The cure for pedophilia is not believing in any of that God/religion crap!

/s

588 victor_yugo  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:43:27pm

re: #579 itellu3times

I forget, not being Catholic - you can excommunicate, and you can un-excommunicate, but the question is, can you un-priest someone? I guess you can un-cardinal them.

Yes, it's called "de-frocking".

589 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:43:35pm

re: #584 mich-again

go away moron

590 Sunlight  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:43:48pm

I'm wondering if Charles has a new post ready yet as we seem to be in loop mode now.

591 itellu3times  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:43:50pm

re: #545 winston06

And it makes me wonder why Catholic church has more child molesting priests than any other church.

What's the mystery? (a) celibacy, and (b) it was tolerated for a long, long time.

592 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:43:50pm

re: #575 buzzsawmonkey

It's frightening how easily I can imagine my nephews enacting the same script in Midwestern English.

Not very pleasant to be around, eh?

593 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:44:00pm

re: #42 vxbush

Did we have conspiracy theorists before the 1960's? If we did, I have never heard of them. What is it in the modern day that brings these people out?

Oh, there were plenty of them. The authors of the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" (who were not conspiracy theorists per se, because they themselves knew they were forgers) started a big one, and that goes back to Tsarist Russia. It's still flourishing in the Arab world and elsewhere (there's probably a copy or two in Williamson's library).

Then there were the anti-Masons, who go even further back.

Some harmless ones were the folks who proved by alchemy or anagrams that Bacon wrote Shakespeare's plays, and those who saw some kind of evil design in the adoption of the Gregorian calendar. I could go on.

It definitely started a long time before the sixties. In fact I would make so bold as to say there have been wild-eyed conspiracy theories ever since people noticed that there were actual conspiracies.

594 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:44:00pm

re: #223 Catttt

I understand how you all feel - I don't like this loathsome man either. However, it is important to note why he incurred excommunication latae sententiae. It happened in the 1980s and had nothing to do with his beliefs about the Holocaust.

He is one of six bishops who were automatically excommunicated when they were consecrated as bishops by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, of the Society of St. Pius X, in Switzerland in the 1980s, for directly participating in an episcopal consecration in the absence of a papal mandate.

Catttt -

Does that mean that he is considered a BISHOP?, a PRIEST? or a LAYMAN?
If a Layman, I can understand, if a Priest, less so, if a Bishop, not at all.

-S-

595 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:44:05pm

re: #585 winston06

I wasnt talking to u

Now you are, so what I said stands.

596 victor_yugo  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:44:11pm

re: #585 winston06

I wasnt talking to u

Boo frickin' hoo. If you don't like it, take your marbles and go home.

597 Cathypop  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:44:20pm

re: #583 unclassifiable

Winston,

Isn't it curious to you that man keeps coming up with religion from time immemorial?

Now you can comfort yourself by saying that it's because he is weak but what about our existence shows any weakness?

A population of 6 billion continuing to grow and thrive -- not exactly weakness eh?

And many of those achievements were spiritually inspired.

And most of that population believes in some kind of supreme divinity.

The point is that even as a non-religious person myself (I am still "seeking"), isn't your approach more about trying to elevate your own ego than to actually convince anyone here that you are right?

Trying to argue the rightness or wrongness of religion is quite pointless. You would be better off trying to argue the viability of a certain beliefs towards sustaining the human race's continuing existence. You can actually do that if you were so intellectually lazy.


A gazzillion updings

598 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:44:21pm

re: #583 unclassifiable

I do not doubt it. It's sad that people believe in something that never existed.

599 Sunlight  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:44:24pm

re: #586 taxfreekiller

Of some note would be the real % of priests involved in some form of sexual activity with minors in all of South America. Just thinking of the power of the Catholic church in all of South America and therefore the possibility of a cover up down there.

Question needing answers.

Not to be confused with the saviors of the U.N.

600 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:44:42pm

re: #551 Killian Bundy

I think part of the problem is that 4% had access to children an a certain about of protection from the church. This allowed for serial offenses. The numbers are pretty huge....
The Nature and Scope of the Problem of Sexual Abuse of Minors
by Catholic Priests and Deacons in the United States

601 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:44:44pm

re: #581 winston06

I am free to think like that.

It remains to be seen if Charles appreciates you using your posting privilege to spout completely bigoted horseshit here.

602 ryannon  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:44:44pm

Oh well.

New thread be along soon....

603 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:44:50pm

re: #531 victor_yugo

So is it equally right to excommunicate John Kerry for refusing to oppose abortion ex officio?

Good point. The answer would be yes, based on my understanding, if he could be held to be a conspirator, making abortion possible. Keep in mind that such excommunication is late sententiae - automatic - not something handed down from the Vatican.

Canon 1398 indicates this: "...a person who procures a successful abortion incurs an latae sententiae excommunication." This means that at the very moment that the abortion is successfully accomplished, the woman and all formal conspirators are excommunicated.

Conspirators (those who make the abortion possible) are also subject to this type of excommunication. People who do not know, at the time of the abortion, that it is a sin or that it is excommunicable or who have an abortion against their will or via coercion are NOT excommunicated.

A person who is excommunicated latae sententiae should not go to Communion until he/she confesses the sin and is granted absolution, at which time the excommunication would be lifted.

604 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:44:53pm

re: #591 itellu3times

I think the fact that Catholic church tried to hide its crimes for a long time speaks volumes here

605 Dustyvet  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:44:57pm

re: #581 winston06

I am free to think like that.

WHATEVER TRIPS YOUR TRIGGER SPORT.

606 solomonpanting  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:44:57pm

re: #561 winston06

this thread is about a moron priest who thinks 9/11 is an inside job and holocaust never happened. I would have said the same thing if there was someone else involved.

If someone from another group was the subject of this thread I wonder if you would have condemned that entire group as well.

607 Guanxi88  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:45:16pm

re: #578 winston06

And that shows how empty these religious groups are when it comes to moral matters. They have none of it and they keep fooling their followers.

This clears things up a bit.

Guys! Lizards! Relax, he's not an anti-Catholic bigot. He just hates organized religions because their leaders are men (or humans, if you prefer), and so are fallible and subject to failure.

Winston, the line of thought you have laid out runs down a road of cynicism and straight to the grave. By this standard, no human institution is worth a damn, since they will all fail, one way or another, because they rely on fallible human beings.

A hope of the divine at least allows one to think that this is not forever to be the case; atheism/agnosticism must look elsewhere (to another place) for hope. But your position, as laid out, is simple nihilism, sparked by a recognition of human limitations.

608 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:45:19pm

re: #533 winston06

how about dudette?

That'll do. You also can call me dude. I was just teasing you. :D

609 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:45:24pm

re: #503 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

What is the difference between hate of a Jew and hate of a Catholic?

ruh roh......
LOGIC

pimplyfaced head to explode in 5........4.........3..........2..........

610 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:45:30pm

re: #598 winston06

I do not doubt it. It's sad that people believe in something that never existed.

Prove it.

611 Wild Knight  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:45:42pm

quote "To clarify a point: Williamson has not been reinstated as a Catholic bishop, he’s been “un-excommunicated,” which allows him to receive communion in the Catholic church. And it’s still wrong."

No, it's not wrong Charles. This doesn't just allow him to receive communion in the Church. It also allows him to receive all the sacraments including sacrament of reconciliation for any of his sins - including Anti-Semitism. If he doesn't confess his sin of Anti-Semitism (which Holocaust Denial clearly is), then he is still culpable if he approaches communion and will be held to account on judgement day. This is NOT an endorsement of this person's views. It's an invitation to start living a life consonant with the teachings of the Church.

Er... to be honest, though I find it repugnant, I don't know whether 9/11 trooferism is a sin or not.

612 strandedsf  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:45:43pm

You can't ex-communicate someone for being an idiot. It's good that the Pope took away his authority, but sad that it took so long. Think of the thousands of Catholics and aspirants whose minds he poisoned over the years. It disgusts me and it gives me yet another reason to stay away from mass -- what with the pro-illegal immigration, global warming mania, priestly BDS and other PC crap I got tired of being assaulted with in church every week. Ya hear that, Benedict?

613 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:46:11pm

re: #606 solomonpanting

sure

614 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:46:21pm

re: #590 Sunlight

Pat Condell has a new rant. I'm sure that'll make things all better.
/

615 itellu3times  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:46:27pm

re: #588 victor_yugo

Yes, it's called "de-frocking".

oh, er, yeah, that sounds familiar now that you mention it, but hasn't there been some controversy about it, sometime in the last thousand years or so? I have a shadow of a recollection about it, like only certain narrow grounds are clearly sufficient, ...

616 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:46:29pm
617 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:46:36pm

re: #608 Catttt

That'll do. You also can call me dude. I was just teasing you. :D

lol.. ok

618 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:46:41pm
619 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:46:45pm

re: #587 maddogg

Its all so simple! I can't believe I haven't seen it before! The cure for pedophilia is not believing in any of that God/religion crap!

/s

1000 updings!
1 downding from winston

620 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:46:57pm

re: #518 mich-again

Bullshit. Now you added a word or two and changed the whole meaning of the inflammatory post. Gutless on your part.


If it's one thing I can't stomach, it's a waffling troll without the courage to stand behind what he says.

621 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:47:06pm

re: #616 buzzsawmonkey

I dont even watch that garbage. LoL...

622 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:47:25pm

Someone needs time in the naughty chair.

623 Sunlight  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:47:25pm

re: #593 Cato the Elder

Oh, there were plenty of them. The authors of the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" (who were not conspiracy theorists per se, because they themselves knew they were forgers) started a big one, and that goes back to Tsarist Russia. It's still flourishing in the Arab world and elsewhere (there's probably a copy or two in Williamson's library).

Then there were the anti-Masons, who go even further back.

Some harmless ones were the folks who proved by alchemy or anagrams that Bacon wrote Shakespeare's plays, and those who saw some kind of evil design in the adoption of the Gregorian calendar. I could go on.

It definitely started a long time before the sixties. In fact I would make so bold as to say there have been wild-eyed conspiracy theories ever since people noticed that there were actual conspiracies.

I've lately been thinking that the internet and the flood of random reports from everywhere are making us shocked, shocked I tell you, by things that have been going on always. We just didn't know about them. Or about how many they were.

624 Dustyvet  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:47:27pm

re: #614 Killgore Trout

Pat Condell has a new rant. I'm sure that'll make things all better.
/

it's a goody...

625 itellu3times  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:47:34pm

oh, and I was just going to say, I have no particular brief about who should be excommunicated or not, as long as he was stripped of responsibilities.

626 96RoadKing  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:47:36pm

Motion to the floor:

Lizards ignore all posts by winston06.

Do I hear a second?

627 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:47:47pm
628 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:47:58pm

re: #611 Wild Knight

quote "To clarify a point: Williamson has not been reinstated as a Catholic bishop, he’s been “un-excommunicated,” which allows him to receive communion in the Catholic church. And it’s still wrong."

No, it's not wrong Charles. This doesn't just allow him to receive communion in the Church. It also allows him to receive all the sacraments including sacrament of reconciliation for any of his sins - including Anti-Semitism. If he doesn't confess his sin of Anti-Semitism (which Holocaust Denial clearly is), then he is still culpable if he approaches communion and will be held to account on judgement day. This is NOT an endorsement of this person's views. It's an invitation to start living a life consonant with the teachings of the Church.

Er... to be honest, though I find it repugnant, I don't know whether 9/11 trooferism is a sin or not.

Isn't bearing false witness a sin?

629 Guanxi88  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:47:59pm

re: #621 winston06

I dont even watch that garbage. LoL...

All right, Winston, you're coming perilously close to the line there. South Park is many things, but garbage it ain't.

630 wiffersnapper  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:48:13pm

What a cuckoo

631 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:48:28pm

re: #602 ryannon

Oh well.

New thread be along soon....

Does winston have to come?

632 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:48:37pm

re: #600 Killgore Trout

I think part of the problem is that 4% had access to children an a certain about of protection from the church. This allowed for serial offenses. The numbers are pretty huge....
The Nature and Scope of the Problem of Sexual Abuse of Minors
by Catholic Priests and Deacons in the United States

/that doesn't mean it's any more of a problem, statistically, than in the general population

633 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:48:39pm

No time for TV garbage

634 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:48:51pm

re: #629 Guanxi88

it used to be good.

635 victor_yugo  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:48:51pm

re: #628 MandyManners

Isn't bearing false witness a sin?

In the sense of "perjury," yes. In the sense of being stupid, no.

636 Dustyvet  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:48:56pm

re: #626 96RoadKing

Motion to the floor:

Lizards ignore all posts by winston06.

Do I hear a second?

2nd...

637 Cathypop  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:48:59pm

re: #612 strandedsf

You can't ex-communicate someone for being an idiot. It's good that the Pope took away his authority, but sad that it took so long. Think of the thousands of Catholics and aspirants whose minds he poisoned over the years. It disgusts me and it gives me yet another reason to stay away from mass -- what with the pro-illegal immigration, global warming mania, priestly BDS and other PC crap I got tired of being assaulted with in church every week. Ya hear that, Benedict?

When did all this PC crap start in the church? Not a big church goer but few years ago went to visit family and was shocked by the change. It was very pc/liberal/bs

638 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:49:18pm

Anyone who doesn't like South Park is a giant douche (or a turd sandwich)

639 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:49:56pm

re: #638 Alouette

LMAO... Like saying any one who doesnt believe in our phony god will go to hell

640 carefulnow  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:49:59pm

re: #628 MandyManners

That's what I said, too.

641 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:50:06pm

re: #626 96RoadKing

Motion to the floor:

Lizards ignore all posts by winston06.

Do I hear a second?

Um - no. Even though I disagree with most of his posts on this thread. I will ignore the ones I consider made out of ignorance or narrow-mindedness, but not all - he is a valuable contributor in other ways.

642 Cathypop  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:50:12pm

re: #626 96RoadKing

Motion to the floor:

Lizards ignore all posts by winston06.

Do I hear a second?

second
third
fourth

643 Dustyvet  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:50:19pm

re: #638 Alouette

Anyone who doesn't like South Park is a giant douche (or a turd sandwich)

Me thinks the thread just went tilt...

644 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:50:27pm

re: #626 96RoadKing

Motion to the floor:

Lizards ignore all posts by winston06.

Do I hear a second?

I'd second but they'd just ignore the resolution.

645 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:50:37pm
646 Silhouette  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:50:56pm

re: #583 unclassifiable

The point is that even as a non-religious person myself (I am still "seeking"), isn't your approach more about trying to elevate your own ego than to actually convince anyone here that you are right?

No, this isn't about his/her ego. There is a war going on in her heart. She too is seeking. That is why the need to take the story about the sin of one Christian and use it to paint the entire idea of God, religion, and people of faith as flawed.

She is trying to justify non-belief in a heart that isn't so sure.

I know a lot of atheists, comfortable with their own beliefs, who share the American attitude of freedom of thought and therefore do not hate their neighbors of faith.

But a heart that is seeking God leaps to attention whenever it hears His name. That is why just hearing someone mention God makes them so uncomfortable that it feels like God is "shoved down their throat?"

647 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:51:08pm

re: #635 victor_yugo

In the sense of "perjury," yes. In the sense of being stupid, no.

If you repeat a lie, you are telling a lie.

648 Abu Al-Poopypants  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:51:10pm

re: #637 Cathypop

When did all this PC crap start in the church? Not a big church goer but few years ago went to visit family and was shocked by the change. It was very pc/liberal/bs


I had many "folk masses" inflicted on me in the early 70s.

649 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:51:11pm

re: #628 MandyManners

Isn't bearing false witness a sin?

The problem with that is their worldview sees 9/11 troof as being real.

650 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:51:21pm

re: #645 buzzsawmonkey

again, what hell?

651 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:51:22pm
652 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:51:59pm

re: #589 winston06
The truth hurts huh.

653 Cathypop  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:52:15pm

re: #638 Alouette

Anyone who doesn't like South Park is a giant douche (or a turd sandwich)

I am neither a giant douche or a turd sandwich and South Park sucks big time!

654 victor_yugo  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:52:19pm

re: #647 MandyManners

If you repeat a lie, you are telling a lie.

But if you don't know it's a lie...

An accusation of lying implies intent to mislead.

655 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:52:20pm

re: #634 winston06

it used to be good.

How would you know what it used to be since you said you don't watch it?

656 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:52:40pm

These are cool

Youtube Video
Youtube Video
657 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:53:00pm
658 Cathypop  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:53:03pm

re: #648 Abu Al-Poopypants

I had many "folk masses" inflicted on me in the early 70s.

Hated the "folk masses" Give me mass in latin!

659 solomonpanting  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:53:20pm

re: #613 winston06

sure

David Irving is a British holocaust denier. Are all Brits morons as well?

660 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:53:30pm
661 96RoadKing  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:53:51pm

re: #641 Catttt

Um - no. Even though I disagree with most of his posts on this thread. I will ignore the ones I consider made out of ignorance or narrow-mindedness, but not all - he is a valuable contributor in other ways.


Just talking about this thread. If he gets his meds straightened out and returns to rationality, then by all means...

662 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:53:52pm

JacksonTN here?

663 Dustyvet  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:54:02pm
Youtube Video
664 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:54:15pm

re: #657 buzzsawmonkey

hell is where all sane and good people are. Paradise s for all dimwitted morons

665 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:54:15pm

re: #658 Cathypop

Hated the "folk masses" Give me mass in latin!

Oh, me too. I'm really happy to have Latin masses coming back. I loathed folk masses.

666 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:54:18pm

The life cycle of the troll interests me

It seems to be a trend with certain mentally unstable people. They go from normal to wacky. Fed by the replies, yet always craving more they continue to ramp it up and up until they finally get banned.

They they start or join their little revolt sites, but it's never the same for them. quite sad actually.

then come the sock puppets, each with a shorter and shorter life span than the original person and each subsequent sock

667 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:54:29pm

I'm getting pretty pissed off so I think I'll take a walk around the yard. bbl

668 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:54:31pm

re: #661 96RoadKing

Just talking about this thread. If he gets his meds straightened out and returns to rationality, then by all means...

Gotcha. Agreed.

669 David IV of Georgia  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:54:35pm

When attempting to defend Christianity, the church, Christ and such, cursing and belittling your opponent generally negates all you say no matter how profound your wisdom.

It is in similar taste to spreading the Good News by bathroom wall graffiti.

-This is just a point of order. I've noticed it from time to time on threads, not necessarily this one.

670 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:54:36pm

re: #626 96RoadKing

Motion to the floor:

Lizards ignore all posts by winston06.

Do I hear a second?

I second that.

671 ryannon  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:54:43pm

re: #638 Alouette

Anyone who doesn't like South Park is a giant douche (or a turd sandwich)

LEAVE CARTMAN ALONE!

672 opnion  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:54:53pm

I would include all major religions including Catholicism as doing a lot of good. Ok I would exlude one religion, but that's another story.
As much good as the Church has done & continues to do, they are not aggressive enough cleaning up the abuse mess. If your are in the morality business you do not avail yourself of every legal protection as a dodge.
I am Catholic & I expect more , but in all honesty all Religions & all human institutions have issues.

673 MandyManners  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:55:23pm

re: #664 winston06

hell is where all sane and good people are. Paradise s for all dimwitted morons

But, before I go, I will tell you that I think you are a fucking vile toad.

674 Wild Knight  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:55:29pm

re: #628 MandyManners

Isn't bearing false witness a sin?

Victor Yugo (comment 635) got there before me. That's it in a nutshell.

675 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:55:41pm

re: #669 David IV of Georgia

well said. Thats what hardliners of all religions do when something offensive is said about their religion.

676 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:56:03pm

re: #673 MandyManners

I feel the same about u

677 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:56:15pm

re: #664 winston06

hell is where all sane and good people are. Paradise s for all dimwitted morons

Man, that wisdom is a little underwhelming, for anyone who can tie their own shoes.

678 Salem  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:56:16pm

A snake can't slither away if you keep stepping oh it's tail.

679 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:56:23pm
680 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:56:33pm

re: #666 Shug

The life cycle of the troll interests me

It seems to be a trend with certain mentally unstable people. They go from normal to wacky. Fed by the replies, yet always craving more they continue to ramp it up and up until they finally get banned.

They they start or join their little revolt sites, but it's never the same for them. quite sad actually.

then come the sock puppets, each with a shorter and shorter life span than the original person and each subsequent sock

Who is being spoken of here? hmmm?

681 Abu Al-Poopypants  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:56:44pm

re: #658 Cathypop

Hated the "folk masses" Give me mass in latin!

OK by me. I get up around noon on Sunday.

682 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:56:46pm

re: #632 Killian Bundy

/that doesn't mean it's any more of a problem, statistically, than in the general population


I'm a little suspicious of that 4% number because it came from the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. But the per capita percentage of offenders isn;t the real issue as far as I'm concerned. It was the cooperation of the Church that allowed them to abuse more victims. The Boy Scouts of Public schools have had problems but not on the scale of the Catholic Church. There's a reason for that.

683 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:56:51pm

re: #677 maddogg

Not according to me.

684 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:56:57pm

re: #678 Salem

Salem! How are you?

685 unclassifiable  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:57:11pm

re: #667 MandyManners

Can I virtually join you? I have a sick friend that needs a visit.

686 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:57:31pm
687 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:57:51pm

re: #594 Dr. Shalit

Catttt -

Does that mean that he is considered a BISHOP?, a PRIEST? or a LAYMAN?
If a Layman, I can understand, if a Priest, less so, if a Bishop, not at all.

-S-

My understanding is that Williamson is now allowed to receive the sacraments, NOT administer them.

688 carefulnow  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:58:01pm

re: #664 winston06

GAZE

689 bloodnok  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:58:07pm

Can anyone recommend a good Richard Dreyfus film for me to watch? Are there any to avoid? I hope he hasn't made any about youth orchestras.

690 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:58:11pm

re: #677 maddogg

Man, that wisdom is a little underwhelming, for anyone who can tie their own shoes.

I certainly can't tie mine any more due to my disabilities, but I must concur the wisdom is a bit skimpy.

691 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:58:13pm

re: #683 winston06

Not according to me.

Exactly.

692 Salem  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:58:17pm

re: #684 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Salem! How are you?

I'm in a slightly less dark mood than usual. How are you?

693 debutaunt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:58:39pm

re: #395 Guanxi88

Late to this food-fight, so lemme see if I got it right:

Whack-job anti-semite has had his excommunication reversed. Guy's Holocaust Denier/ 9-11 Troofer (Two great tastes that taste great together; "Hey, you got your antisemitism in my paranoia!" "Hey, you got your paranoia on my antisemitism"). So far, clear enough.

And then, it looks like a full-on throwdown developed among the Lizards. What happened, exactly?

Oh Canada seems to be poking folks for entertainment purposes.

694 Dustyvet  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:58:57pm

re: #689 bloodnok

Can anyone recommend a good Richard Dreyfus film for me to watch? Are there any to avoid? I hope he hasn't made any about youth orchestras.

See Moon Over Parador...great fun...:)

695 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:59:02pm

re: #689 bloodnok

Can anyone recommend a good Richard Dreyfus film for me to watch? Are there any to avoid? I hope he hasn't made any about youth orchestras.

Jaws
Close Encounters of the 3rd kind
American Graffiti

696 Silhouette  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:59:10pm

re: #687 goddessoftheclassroom

My understanding is that Williamson is now allowed to receive the sacraments, NOT administer them.

A church accepting a sinner. I see no problem with this.

In fact, it makes me very glad, being a sinner in constant need of forgiveness myself.

697 carefulnow  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:59:36pm

re: #682 Killgore Trout

The Boy Scouts of Public schools have had problems but not on the scale of the Catholic Church. There's a reason for that.

What?

698 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:59:39pm
699 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:59:41pm

re: #677 maddogg

Man, that wisdom is a little underwhelming, for anyone who can tie their own shoes.

He uses velcro.

700 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:59:42pm

re: #692 Salem

Good place to come then. This'll darken you up in no time.

701 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:59:44pm
702 Abu Al-Poopypants  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 1:59:45pm

re: #689 bloodnok

Can anyone recommend a good Richard Dreyfus film for me to watch? Are there any to avoid? I hope he hasn't made any about youth orchestras.

What about Bob?

703 David IV of Georgia  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:00:27pm

re: #629 Guanxi88

All right, Winston, you're coming perilously close to the line there. South Park is many things, but garbage it ain't.

While South Park often makes insightful statements about current events that cut through all the PC mantras and vaporous windbaggage of the media, it still falls into my category of garbage. If it ceased to be, I wouldn't miss it.

704 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:00:28pm

re: #689 bloodnok

Can anyone recommend a good Richard Dreyfus film for me to watch? Are there any to avoid? I hope he hasn't made any about youth orchestras.


JAWS

705 Silhouette  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:00:34pm

re: #689 bloodnok

Can anyone recommend a good Richard Dreyfus film for me to watch? Are there any to avoid? I hope he hasn't made any about youth orchestras.

Don't worry. I get it. ;-)

706 bloodnok  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:00:38pm

The Goodbye Girl isn't bad.

707 solomonpanting  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:00:39pm

re: #666 Shug

The Evolution of the Trollicean.

708 mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:00:41pm

This thread made me wonder whatever happened to Fr. Charles Coughlin who spouted vile-antisemitic trash over the airwaves in the '30's. He was never excommunicated. But this is something I hadn't read before.

Coughlin was vilified in the press as a Nazi sympathiser by cartoonist Theodor Seuss Geisel, best known for his children's books written under the pen name of Dr. Seuss.

I did not know Dr Suess did political cartoons. Thats worth looking into. I already read all his books about 100 times each.

709 mfarmer1  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:00:41pm

Thanks Bishop Williamson!

Sincerely,
Imps from hell

710 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:00:57pm

re: #702 Abu Al-Poopypants

What about Bob?

What about him? ;)

711 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:01:00pm

re: #695 Shug

Jaws
Close Encounters of the 3rd kind
American Graffiti

Don't know why people forget "Tin Men".

712 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:01:15pm

re: #698 Iron Fist

they r gutless

713 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:01:37pm

re: #701 buzzsawmonkey

See my 711. Nice.

714 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:02:35pm

Again it won't change anything. men of god. Makes me puke

peace out

715 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:02:44pm

re: #689 bloodnok

Can anyone recommend a good Richard Dreyfus film for me to watch? Are there any to avoid? I hope he hasn't made any about youth orchestras.

I'm looking for a good and factual Michael Moor documentary.

716 ryannon  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:02:50pm

re: #703 David IV of Georgia

While South Park often makes insightful statements about current events that cut through all the PC mantras and vaporous windbaggage of the media, it still falls into my category of garbage. If it ceased to be, I wouldn't miss it.

Oh yeah?

You and what army?

717 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:02:59pm
718 Shug  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:03:07pm

re: #696 Silhouette

A church accepting a sinner. I see no problem with this.

In fact, it makes me very glad, being a sinner in constant need of forgiveness myself.

I agree completely, however I am not so sure that his continued behavior fits in with the following

O my God,
I am heartily sorry for having offended Thee,
and I detest all my sins
because I fear the loss of heaven
and the pains of hell,
but most of all because they offend Thee, my God,
Who art all good and deserving of all my love.
I firmly resolve with the help of Thy grace
to confess my sins, to do penance,
and to amend my life.
Amen.

719 Anna  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:03:32pm

re: #9 doppelganglander

This nut Williamosn was one of four bishops consecrated in 1988 by ultra-conservative French bishop Lefavre without proper Papal authority. The Saint Pius XX or SPXX I think was excommunciated back then. On dec 15, Pope Benedict lifted the excommunication of the four to allow them to receive the Sacrements. So Swedish TV decided to interview one of them under the promise of just talking faith. They picked Williamson and in mid interview tossed a history question at him. Which let his true inner nut out. Much to the Church's chargin, but as the Papal spokesman said just a couple days ago, being a liar[Williamson] is not a reason to excommunicate someone.

So aint we got fun. But please do not lump all in with this nut or we steer close to what James Carrol asserts in Constatine's Sword - that the whole Church has and continues to be a source of anti-Semitism without a single redeeming feature.

720 Killgore Trout  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:03:38pm

re: #697 carefulnow

Because the boy scouts and public schools would fire and help prosecute sex offenders not cover up their crimes and move the offenders to a new community.

721 ryannon  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:04:16pm

New tread! °°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°°

722 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:04:26pm

re: #718 Shug

If he continues to spout his antisemitism, I hope his priest enforces the appropriate discipline.

723 BryanS  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:04:36pm

re: #583 unclassifiable

Winston,

Isn't it curious to you that man keeps coming up with religion from time immemorial?

Now you can comfort yourself by saying that it's because he is weak but what about our existence shows any weakness?

A population of 6 billion continuing to grow and thrive -- not exactly weakness eh?

And many of those achievements were spiritually inspired.

And most of that population believes in some kind of supreme divinity.

The point is that even as a non-religious person myself (I am still "seeking"), isn't your approach more about trying to elevate your own ego than to actually convince anyone here that you are right?

Trying to argue the rightness or wrongness of religion is quite pointless. You would be better off trying to argue the viability of a certain beliefs towards sustaining the human race's continuing existence. You can actually do that if you were so intellectually lazy.

I'll bite (since Winston's response will likely tick people off). I think that the reason religion pops up in all human cultures in history simply as a means of psychologically coping with our level of self awareness. What a horrible, dreadful thing to know you are going to one day die and your life will pass without meaning anything--except to pass your likeness on to future generations. This is also the reason why I think those of faith cannot accept that an atheist could possible have a basis for developing a system of morals. In short, I think people believe in a religion because the alternative is too horrible for them to contemplate. And if there was no existing religion, one would have to be created to help society cope.

I find it interesting how so many religions are created in disparate societies with very little in common about their spiritual beliefs, but enough similarities in common on how we should treat our fellow man that we see our humanity in all religions.

724 arkay  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:04:39pm

I hope that Charles will forgive me for this pointed dissent. I've enormous respect for you, Charles, but on this matter you are completely out of line.

Bishops are excommunicated, not for sin, but for disobeying or defying the authority of the Church in matters of apostolic authority. (If they excommunicated people merely for sinning, there'd be nobody left to tithe on Sunday.)

THIS is why he is being reinstated: he has repented that particular defiance. For the sake of his followers, whose eternal souls depend on their being in communion with the Vicar of Christ, he has been readmitted to the Church.

The fact that the particular bishop involved is a farking icehole with spit for brains and a bad habit of denying objective reality in terms of recent history is immaterial to the decision of His Holiness, The Vicar of Christ. Benedict made this decision for reasons having nothing to do with what Reuters would do with the story, and certainly nothing to do with this guy's obiter dicta on the Holocaust, 9/11, bimetallism, whether Don't Fear the Reaper needs more cowbell, whether we landed on the moon or not, or upon any other personal insanity.

This is not a case of Papal infallibility, but rather whether His Holiness simply has the authority to make seemingly incomprehensible decisions within his ambit or not. He does.

We are not in the habit of submitting papal decision making to the general public (and certainly not Reuters) for approval. He's Benedict XVI, thank you, not Barack I. Christ selected, not elected, His Vicars.

The True Faith is not democratic. If you want congregationalism, you know where to find it.

Any individual is certainly free to criticize His Holiness for his actions. But to be taken seriously, it helps if you're actually a practicing Catholic. (A lot.)

(PS: You want seeming papal "insanity"? Try Vatican I. Pius IX, deprived of all of his territories, the Italian Army at his gates, essentially a prisoner of the Vatican--calls an Ecumenical Council and promulgates the doctrine of papal infallibility. At the time this was done, it seemed mad, and likely that he would be the last Pope. Not only was he not the last pope, he turned out to be the longest surviving Pope since Peter, with a long string of successors who continue his authority to this day. Furthermore, infallibility continues to be the law of the Catholic land. Upshot: Maybe they know what they're doing after all. I for one will grant them their authority, as bizarre as the decisions may seem to me from my pajama-clad-behind-warmed chair.)

725 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:04:55pm
726 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:05:23pm

re: #718 Shug

He was excommunicated because he was ordained without Vatican approval. His behavior and attitudes now becomes the basis for a possible reinstatement.

727 victor_yugo  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:06:00pm

re: #714 winston06

Again it won't change anything. men of god. Makes me puke

peace out

No, in your case just "out." You have no peace, and you want to make sure nobody else does, either.

728 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:06:11pm

re: #714 winston06

Again it won't change anything. men of god. Makes me puke

peace out

does " peace out" mean your leaving? just asking...

729 Haverwilde  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:07:02pm

re: #708 mich-again

I did not know Dr Suess did political cartoons. Thats worth looking into. I already read all his books about 100 times each.

You are right about reading them over, and over again. Now with grandkids I get to start reading them over and over again and again. Great fun!

730 debutaunt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:07:16pm

re: #468 Guanxi88

Look, I didn't want to get involved in this, but I think I need to:

Winston, carrying on like this is not a good idea. Antisemitism is a nasty, pernicious disease, and should be fought wherever and whenever it shows up. All decent people agree with that.

But, in trying to combat this evil, you have apparently developed an aniums toward religion in general, and Catholicism in particular, that is simply irrational. The more you fling feces and go ape on them, the more you reinforce the image of the Jew as a hater of Christianity.

You and I both know that's one of the major arguments used in religiously-oriented antisemitic circles. Why argue their point for them?

OR:

Winston's account has been hacked, and it's just some jackass spouting off. I could go with either theory.

Large quantities of alcohol.

731 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:07:29pm

re: #689 bloodnok

Can anyone recommend a good Richard Dreyfus film for me to watch? Are there any to avoid? I hope he hasn't made any about youth orchestras.

I didn't like that movie either, however, I thought the voice on Jean Louisa Kelly was beautiful. Played the mom on the TV show "Yes Dear".

732 opnion  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:08:09pm

re: #648 Abu Al-Poopypants

I had many "folk masses" inflicted on me in the early 70s.


I still remember back in the day going to mass. There was this priest that I never laid eyes on. He does his homily from the rock opera 'Tommy",
He starts, "Who are you, who, who who, who? Who are you, who, who,who?"
It got really weird.

733 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:08:16pm
734 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:08:30pm
735 Killian Bundy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:08:50pm

re: #682 Killgore Trout

I'm a little suspicious of that 4% number because it came from the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. But the per capita percentage of offenders isn;t the real issue as far as I'm concerned. It was the cooperation of the Church that allowed them to abuse more victims. The Boy Scouts of Public schools have had problems but not on the scale of the Catholic Church. There's a reason for that.

Well, actually the "point" was that troll creature stated, as a fact, that the Catholic Church was "full" of pedophile priests.

/of course, Mr. Moron's own linky proves that's not even remotely close to being true

736 Salem  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:08:50pm

re: #717 Iron Fist

Good one. I'd never heard it before, but it seems really appropriate for this stage of the discourse.

It probably sounds like I'm joining in attacking him but it's just little psychological parable or whatever. I figure he's just sort of bitter about something and in the mood to lash out.

737 Silhouette  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:09:01pm

re: #718 Shug

Of course not. Accepting the sinner doesn't mean the church is accepting the sin, or overlooking it in any way.

And clearly, he doesn't seem to have renounced that sin, repented, or anything.

Still, the best place for a sinner in on the inside, where there is help. Like having a very, very sick person in a hospital. They may not respond to any treatment in the hospital, but overall, it is usually the best place to be.

738 Rancher  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:09:47pm

To be excommunicated means more than being denied communion, it means your going to hell. That's a bit much just for being an idiot.

739 Dustyvet  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:10:00pm

re: #715 FurryOldGuyJeans

I'm looking for a good and factual Michael Moor documentary.

The Wizard Of Oz?

Military VD Film...:)

740 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:10:03pm

re: #594 Dr. Shalit

Catttt -

Does that mean that he is considered a BISHOP?, a PRIEST? or a LAYMAN?
If a Layman, I can understand, if a Priest, less so, if a Bishop, not at all.

-S-

Allow me to give a link to Father Z, who explains this complex issue.

MISCONCEPTIONS: What the “lifting” of the SSPX excom’s means for people

The bishops of the SSPX are validly consecrated bishops, but the fact remains that they were illicitly consecrated. That hasn’t changed. They are still not reconciled with the Bishop of Rome. They are still suspended a divinis. They still have no permission to exercise ministry in the Church. They may not licitly ordain. They have no authority to establish parishes, etc.

This is all part of an attempt to heal a scism, and I'm sure it never occurred to the Church that this particular bishop's idiotic beliefs would draw fire. He was just one of half a dozen bishops who were symbolically absolved for the scism.

Compared to Canon Law, the Series 7 exam is a piece of cake.

741 opnion  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:10:49pm

re: #698 Iron Fist

742 Catttt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:13:01pm

And keep in mind that the Church says it is ok to go to SSPX churches for Mass if you really miss the old Latin Mass and would have a hardship if you could not go to that church (say no other Latin Mass was offered in your area except at an SSPX church).

Confusing, yes? Yes.

743 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:13:57pm
744 Abu Al-Poopypants  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:15:01pm

re: #732 opnion

I still remember back in the day going to mass. There was this priest that I never laid eyes on. He does his homily from the rock opera 'Tommy",
He starts, "Who are you, who, who who, who? Who are you, who, who,who?"
It got really weird.

"Who Are You" was 10 years after "Tommy", and I'm guessing that he didn't include the lyrics from the later versions of the chorus.

745 callahan23  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:15:06pm

Sorry late but U-Tube tells me that:
"This video is not available in your country or domain."
Is there any way around this? Maybe a Liveleak-Video?
Thanx

746 debutaunt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:16:43pm

re: #560 rightymouse

I'm out. Brandy, perhaps?

Did Canada boy drink all of it?

747 callahan23  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:16:55pm

re: #738 Rancher

To be excommunicated means more than being denied communion, it means your going to hell. That's a bit much just for being an idiot.

Not for an antisemitic idiot! Definitely not.

748 ayatollah ghilmeini  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:17:40pm

It does not matter that the records show it happened.

The record of 10000 trains going one way full and coming back empty is conclusive. But he hates Jews so it matters not. The witnesses don't matter, the testimony of the survivors does not matter. The confession of the commander of the camp and ten thousand other irrefutable pieces of evidence from striped pants uniforms with yellow stars right on through to British and American soldiers' liberation stories. The buried and later unburied Ringleblum canisters, to say nothing of the inability of anyone in this world to be able to find 2.9 million polish Jews after the war- where did they go? The aerial photos of Auschwitz, if that part is true its all true. Why have a rail line leading to a labor camp? Only when you need an industrial killing factory do you need it. Oh and they found the plans for the crematoria, why build those if there aren't masses of bodies to put in them?

When you hate the Jew, the truth and facts do not matter. The evidence does not matter. They see what they want.

Would you like to bet he condemns Israel unequivocally and supports Hezbollah and Hamas. He has the disease and is not ashamed of showing it in public.

I don't care if takes communion from now until the end of time, for a man who is supposed to follow in the teachings of Jesus, cannot bring even the remotest amount of sympathy for the people who gave the world Jesus and who have suffered extremely through the ages from the evil in the hearts of me just such as this.

749 ayatollah ghilmeini  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:18:48pm

re: #715 FurryOldGuyJeans

Tin Men one of my favorites with the FIne Young Cannibals in the soundtrack.

750 rightymouse  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:19:20pm

re: #746 debutaunt

Did Canada boy drink all of it?

Probably a vat of the stuff. Never seen anything like that for quite a while.

751 FlakMusic  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:22:27pm

re: #16 WriterMom

I don't care if he is a member of the clergy-he's a mother-F&cking Jew hating Holocaust denier.

I'm fantasizing about the penance I'd assign for this wretched excuse of a fallen moral authority.

752 Alone in NY  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:22:48pm

What a scumbag.

753 debutaunt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:23:56pm

re: #631 unrealizedviewpoint

Does winston have to come?

Quick - change the password.

754 Petra  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:24:25pm

He's an Anglican convert. Most Catholics think he's a leftie plant to prevent the reunion of the SSPX to the Church and throw some more crap at the Church. I hope he's not accepted back if he was ever with the Catholic Church in the first place. I for one don't want him.

755 Rancher  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:25:53pm

re: #747 callahan23

Not for an antisemitic idiot! Definitely not.

Should he be shot? Tortured? Hell's supposed to be worse than that, eternal torture.

756 Rancher  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:28:23pm

Besides, he'll probably wind up in hell anyway, this way the Church has given him the option of letting go of his hatred and finding salvation. It's on his head now.

757 Stonemason  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:29:01pm

re: #720 Killgore Trout

You're gonna have to show proof of that regarding the scouts...to my knowledge the scouts do not allow gay leaders.

758 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:29:42pm

re: #733 Iron Fist

Here are the cartoons I wanted to see. Excellent link sir.

759 debutaunt  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:29:53pm

re: #689 bloodnok

Can anyone recommend a good Richard Dreyfus film for me to watch? Are there any to avoid? I hope he hasn't made any about youth orchestras.

Not the penguin Opus, the other one.

760 iam7545  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:32:36pm

Dayyyum - this Jew will have to cancel his trip to the Vatican this summer ;)

Who cares about what the Pope says anymore? It is apparent that the Catholics could care less - I will follow their lead

761 eon  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:33:16pm

re: #689 bloodnok

Can anyone recommend a good Richard Dreyfus film for me to watch? Are there any to avoid? I hope he hasn't made any about youth orchestras.

Always, (1989) which co-starred Holly Hunter, John Goodman, and Audrey Hepburn is good. It also features a lot of footage of Douglas B-26 borate bombers, which is always a plus in my book. Also The Goodbye Girl (1977), written and directed by Neil Simon.

I used to like Close Encounters of the Third Kind (1977), but now I see it mainly as a two-and-a-half-hour infomercial for UFO believer groups- who I think have a serious problem coping with reality.

/Almost as serious as the I-suspect-soon-to-be -excommunicated-once-more idiot who was the original subject of this thread.

cheers

eon

762 callahan23  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:33:53pm

re: #755 Rancher

Should he be shot? Tortured? Hell's supposed to be worse than that, eternal torture.

Not shot, not tortured. Not in this life. The thought of hell is punishment enough for that kind of filth.
Which is why he should stay excommunicated.

763 Rancher  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:35:46pm

re: #689 bloodnok

Can anyone recommend a good Richard Dreyfus film for me to watch? Are there any to avoid? I hope he hasn't made any about youth orchestras.

American Graffiti, What about Bob.

764 Abu Al-Poopypants  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:42:15pm

We adopted a cat last year. He'd been abused, thrown out of his previous owners' car, run over and abandoned. He lost his tail as a result, and we named him "Bob". We took him to our vet for his first check-up, and the Dr. walks into the room and says "What about Bob?"

765 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:42:30pm

re: #689 bloodnok

Can anyone recommend a good Richard Dreyfus film for me to watch? Are there any to avoid? I hope he hasn't made any about youth orchestras.

I liked Once Around. Kind of a sleeper.

766 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:53:08pm

re: #513 Cato the Elder

I can't understand how the Pope could countenance this man when Williamson himself says the Vatican (and presumably thus Benedict XVI himself) is "under the power of Satan". Pope John Paul II himself confirmed the excommunication. Has Benedict lost his mind?

I must read more about this, because I really am confused. These schismatic groups are getting to be a real problem for the Church, and the last thing I would think B14 would want is to welcome back someone who not only went WAY AWOL, but is coming back full of unrepentent political crap.

767 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:55:42pm

re: #520 tokyobk

Shay, I will take a look. Maybe you are right. I have nothing invested in it politically just always seemed to me that Kennedy was reckless and a genius at pissing people off, hung out with unsavory characters and Oswald strikes me as the ideal patsy. But, again, it is not a particular passion of mine.

However, when I was young and radical, "so-and-so was black" was my favorite. Did you know Beethoven was black, haha.

Alexandre Dumas was black! Well, actually, he was, a bit. A while ago there was some upset because some local library had a mural with famous author's names on it, and a local group objected because they were all white men. First name on the list was Dumas.

Research people, research.

768 FrogMarch  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:55:57pm

drive by post just to say-- screw him.

769 kansas  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 2:59:23pm

Did he see Bush 41 and 43 at the airport where JFK Jr took off too? Maybe saw them personally sabotage his plane. My idiot to to be ex son in law believes that along with the WTC lies.

770 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 3:05:09pm

re: #274 winston06

Some European Catholics are notorious for their anti-Jewish sentiments. They Some of them aided Nazis in eliminating the Jews.

Then there were others like Fr. Maximilian Kolbe and the White Rose group.

Bigot.

771 Petra  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 3:06:47pm

Here are a few Catholic blogs with lots of links to other blogs and none are pleased about this loony tune. They want Bishop Fellay from SSPX tp expel him.

[Link: blogs.telegraph.co.uk...]
[Link: gkupsidedown.blogspot.com...]
[Link: gkupsidedown.blogspot.com...]
[Link: www.creativeminorityreport.com...]
[Link: opinionatedcatholic.blogspot.com...]

772 notutopia  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 3:07:07pm

re: #566 winston06

so r u

You are a bigot and a fool.

773 NY Nana  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 3:08:03pm

Thank you for the hat tip, Charles.

I wish that the Bishop had never made such a hurtful statement in the first place, that caused the video to be made. I was astounded when I saw the video , and it hurt so much, as I was 7 years old when the war ended, and the camps were found, although many knew, and Al-NYT kept the info on a back page. There were Jews in Europe who actually came here to let the world know what was happening, but the Jews were afraid to make too much noise, sadly. My family, on both sides, lost so many members HY"D.

And now it seems that 2009 is getting to feel more and more like the 1930's, as a Jew.

Here is an article on the Bishop.

Sadly, I think that this will put a very heavy cloud over the Pope's visit to Israel and the enemies of Israel...the article is from Haaretz, a liberal/leftist paper

774 Petra  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 3:08:35pm

re: #770 Cato the Elder

Exactly Cato. Thanks.

775 jill e  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 3:14:48pm

He was excommunicated for his association with the Lefebvrian movement. It looks as though he hasn't been reinstated as a Bishop. But you may not believe this but he's really allowed to hold any crazy beliefs he likes. Just because he is now allowed to receive communion doesn't mean Pope Benedict or the Vatican agrees with his views. Obviously, he's major wacko but he can believe he's a poached egg and as long as he adheres to the teachings of the Church, he should be reinstated.

I don't understand why so many turned to bad mouthing Pope Benedict over this. It's obvious that the Pope (and the Catholic Church) believes that the Holocaust happened; he had first-hand experience with the horrors of Nazism.

With regard to all the child molestation comments, I just can't believe this keeps coming up. Child molesters choose professions that give them access to children. Indeed there were weak bishops who just didn't know what to do...but I've seen this first hand. People, when faced with such an abhorrant, unbelievable evil many times choose to look the other way. It's not right but it happens. In the Catholic Church, we ask forgiveness for "what we have done, and what we have failed to do." Certainly those weak bishops committed a great evil for what they didn't do.

I saw a television show recently where an actor and actress posed as a couple on a first date in a restaurant. When she leaves to go to the bathroom, he appears to slip something in her drink. Many people also sitting in the restaurant saw this and did nothing. One guys gets really mad and confronts the actor and his wife tells him to mind his own business and shut up....

Free speech...it's a wonderful thing, unless you happen to disagree, I guess.

776 iam7545  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 3:15:17pm

re: #773 NY Nana

NY Nana - Many in my family were also killed by the Nazis. The commitment by the Vatican and others in Europe to do Teshuva to the Jews is lip service at best. When things like this happen I am not surprised - yet I feel that deep hurt.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

B'Shalom

777 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 3:17:12pm
To clarify a point: Williamson has not been reinstated as a Catholic bishop, he’s been “un-excommunicated,” which allows him to receive communion in the Catholic church. And it’s still wrong.

Thanks, Charles. Yes, since his original consecration was invalid, he couldn't be reinstated. And no, his excommunication shouldn't have been rescinded, IMHO.

778 iam7545  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 3:17:59pm

re: #775 jill e

jill e - If the Pope was serious about mending fences with the Jews he would not have done this.

It is really that simple.

779 Frank N Stein  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 3:21:51pm

Are there any Israelis here?

Can you watch the video? Or are you getting the following message: "This video is not available in your country."

780 lostlakehiker  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 3:22:38pm

Note the clever way the man goes about lying.

When asked, "are these your words", he neither affirms nor denies. A simple Yes or No would have answered the question. Instead, he reframes the question, saying that he does not believe that as a matter of deliberate policy, the Nazi state killed six million Jews in gas chambers.

Nobody else believes that either. What about those worked to death? What about those who starved to death in the camps? What about those who were shot? Clubbed, knived, done in by "medical" experiments? At Babi Yar, outside Kiev, a mass killing took place. Wikipedia link. A ravine was filled with bodies, (33000, according to the article), mostly Jews. No gassing there, folks. Move along.

The stinker then elaborates. He thinks that gas chambers are a logical absurdity, because cyanide lingers in the weave of whatever clothing the deceased were wearing. What he omits to mention, in the hope that his listener isn't too bright or too curious and anyhow wants to believe his lies, is that the victims were made to strip, and told that they were going to showers.

Phaugh. If this guy's a Catholic, how come he isn't worried about Hell? If he isn't worried about divine justice, why is he a communicant?

781 UberInfidel67  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 3:27:28pm

re: #579 itellu3times Unpriest = defrocked

782 NY Nana  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 3:29:43pm

re: #776 iam7545

And Eichmann *spit* was helped to escape by the Red Cross and the Church.

I have a photo album, and a letter saved...and sadly someone threw out letters that my 2 Grandmothers zt"l received after the war 'addessee unknown'...there never was a reply. Attempts were made to find them, but with no success. All my ancestors were from Lithuania and Byleorus...except for my maternal side...one grandparent was a Londoner...East End.

Never forget-never forgive.

783 jill e  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 3:31:16pm

re: #778 iam7545

jill e - If the Pope was serious about mending fences with the Jews he would not have done this.

It is really that simple.

Sorry, but it's not that simple. The Church is about saving souls and returning lost sheep to the flock. Christ ate with sinners and sought out the lowest because they were the ones who needed him. This man needs to return to the church, receive communion and receive the prayers from all of us that he will see the error of his ways. He's no longer a representative of the Church...he a sinning human being who is being given another chance.

784 ELC  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 3:37:01pm

re: #724. I second those remarks. Two bishops were excommunicated along with the 4 bishops they had consecrated without the pope's approval. The four surviving bishops asked that the excommunication be lifted. And this has been done. The lifting of the ban is simply not a statement, one way or the other, on any of their opinions about history or Jews or 9/11 or anything else. Though they are bishops in fact, they are not bishops in law, so they are not permitted to function as bishops (to administer confirmation or to ordain priests, for instance). Whether they will actually abide by such prohibitions is another story. And whether the absolution from excommunication was a prudent move remains to be seen.

It needs hardly to be said that Williamson is, at the very least, a screwball.

785 iam7545  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 3:38:11pm

re: #782 NY Nana

NY Nana = The Red Cross to this day displays their anti semitic leanings towards Israel. They have made no attempt to make amends.

My ancestors were from Lithuania and Poland. I grew up seeing the dreaded tattoos on several relatives.

Nana - while I will never forget I believe that everyone has the opportunity to do Teshuva. I forgive those that display their desire to behave in a different manner. My best friend in the world was a Nun. When she passed away I gave a Eulogy at her funeral Mass and was treated with the highest respect by everyone. I still keep in touch with the Sisters that she worked with and visit her grave every year.

Unfortunately what comes out of the Vatican is not worthy of that same forgiveness.

786 NY Nana  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 3:39:58pm

re: #745 callahan23

Here you go. Carl in Jerusalem put it on Live Leak.

787 iam7545  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 3:44:02pm

re: #783 jill e

Jill - I can respect that- however this is where Judaism and Catholicism differ. Jews are required to do "Teshuva" which translates as return - when we have gone astray. We return to Torah and the teachings - then God meets us halfway. Jews make this choice every day of our lives.
The idea that a man that is unrepentant can be prayed for and thus healed does not compute in this Jews mind.

Good luck with this guy.

Jill, the Popes position on Israel is further proof to me that he too is unwilling to do Teshuvah.

Good luck with him too.

788 NY Nana  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 3:54:09pm

re: #785 iam7545

I agree. And it makes me so angry.

I grew up in Boston, and had so many Catholic friends. I still do. Even though Boston was a center of Jew hate, and we lived only in certain areas..restriction, I never experienced Jew hate. My schools were obviously in areas which were Jewish, but there was never a problem. I was amazingly shielded, and was not called a 'dirty Jew bitch' until we lived in the same suburb of NYC, and my-then 2 year old son splashed a neighbor who walked by the wading pool. And I have never been called one anywhere since.

But the level of Jew hate now is building to a pre-WWII level world-wide, and I fear for my 4 kids, daughters in law, son in law, and especially my 3 little grandkids...

Without Charles it would be a very lonely place indeed....

So you are also a Litvak? ;)

789 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 3:57:31pm
790 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:01:17pm
791 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:01:37pm
792 iam7545  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:03:07pm

re: #788 NY Nana

Yes Nana - at Litvak! Sister Marie, my dear friend is buried in Boston as she worked in a service Convent there. I grew up in an area where Jews and Blacks were forbidden from many places including - Swim Clubs, Ice Skating Rinks, Amusement Parks and Movie Theaters.

I agree, Antisemitism has reared its ugly head once again and few world leaders, including the Pope have the courage to denounce it.

NY Nana, I agree with your assessment of Charles and this wonderful cyber- place that he has provided. I have made many friends here of all faiths and non-faith that make me feel very welcome.

793 smokefire  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:14:18pm

once again the Catholic Church has shot itself in the foot.
Rampant child abuse, now allowing a bishop that denies the Holocaust,and that 9/11 was an American Job.

Oh well the Pope was a member of the Hitler Youth, so what does one expect.
Don't forget that Pope Pius XII, during WWII, conveniently kept his mouth shut and said nothing about the killing of Italian Jews.
One more thing St. Peter was a Jew before he was the first Pope.

794 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:14:36pm

re: #612 strandedsf

You can't ex-communicate someone for being an idiot. It's good that the Pope took away his authority, but sad that it took so long. Think of the thousands of Catholics and aspirants whose minds he poisoned over the years. It disgusts me and it gives me yet another reason to stay away from mass -- what with the pro-illegal immigration, global warming mania, priestly BDS and other PC crap I got tired of being assaulted with in church every week. Ya hear that, Benedict?

Ditto. What we do is pray that people like this receive G-d's Grace and understand the positions they take are wrong and hurtful. You don;t stop reaching out to fool's. no matter how wrong they are.

Same for morons like Joseph Fara. WE don't pray that Obama fails...we pray that G-d guides his heart in the right way. We pray that policies that are unjust do not happen, that they do not harm America. We always pray for positive things to happen. I prefer to let Christ condemn the Fig tree...

This is why people like Phreddy Phelps are so despised by the vast majority of Christians. But we don't throw them out of the Body of Christ. Once you do that is is impossible to bring them to Grace and understanding.

795 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:14:49pm

The number of dings I got on this thread goes to show the level of tolerance among the religious people. Religion makes people intolerant and their brains empty. And no matter what their belief system is, they are religious. Be it Catholic or Muslim or ..... Take a shot at their religion and they take offense greatly. Some burn embassies, some ding down posts. LoL. I am not surprised at all.

796 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:15:24pm

re: #793 smokefire

where have you been on this thread... watch out for dings you will get here from the faithful.

797 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:21:25pm

re: #795 winston06

The number of dings I got on this thread goes to show the level of tolerance among the religious people. Religion makes people intolerant and their brains empty. And no matter what their belief system is, they are religious. Be it Catholic or Muslim or ..... Take a shot at their religion and they take offense greatly. Some burn embassies, some ding down posts. LoL. I am not surprised at all.

Cite, please the Christians that burned something down, or rioted, when for example, Piss Christ was presented? Seems to me _you_ are the intolerant one.

798 Ojoe  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:21:38pm

re: #788 NY Nana

Oh Nana it is scary. I was raised Catholic. One of my dad's best friends sang the (forgive me if I spell it wrong) Kaddish at my dad's funeral. And all good people are seamlessly connected at the deepest level. But the devil is making great progress these days.

799 smokefire  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:22:17pm

re: #796 winston06

Winny, I don't really care. There is nothing like a fallen Catholic [ME] who takes his former religion to task.

Here in North Eastern Ct. the diocese has been stonewalling for years over the priest abuse. For years priests have been shuffled around after abuse has been found out, nothing was done, and the abuse continued. Devout Catholics formed groups to try and address the abuse situation in the diocese, but the bishop refused to meet with these groups, and banned them from meeting in Church halls. Out and out denial, and stonewalling. The Pope reinstates a blatantly anti-semitic bishop, and you expect people to just go along with it? I think not. Maybe some of the faithful should get their collective heads out of the sand and see what is going on.

800 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:23:11pm

re: #797 Quilly Mammoth

I was talking about the level of intolerance and ignorance. No, I don't think Christians have recently burned anything down becuase they are far more civilized than Muslims. But hey, they would if this was 8 century AD.

801 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:23:45pm

re: #795 winston06

The number of dings I got on this thread goes to show the level of tolerance among the religious people. Religion makes people intolerant and their brains empty. And no matter what their belief system is, they are religious. Be it Catholic or Muslim or ..... Take a shot at their religion and they take offense greatly. Some burn embassies, some ding down posts. LoL. I am not surprised at all.


I would have to call you a generalist. You don't know much about anything. It shows.

802 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:23:50pm

re: #799 smokefire

glad to hear u r doing this. I am appalled by the level of intolerance among most religious zealots.

803 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:24:02pm

re: #801 maddogg

I know a lot

804 Manfred the Wonder Dog  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:24:28pm

Wow, I don't post here a lot but I haven't seen a thread with this much meanness in it for quite some time. I was raised RC, and after Vatican II we kids visited a local synagogue, met some very nice folks, and learned a lot about differences and similarities. I subsequently attended a large midwestern university and met folks from all over the world, having all sorts of beliefs. In my career as an engineer, I've met professionals from around the world and discussed many things, including culture and religion, without rancor. After all of that and more reading and study, I've come to the following conclusions that help keep me centered with regard to religion. First, though circumstances differ with the historical period, one may make the case that all religions were founded as noble, pre-scientific attempts to understand and control the world around us, and as such, reflect some of the best of human thought of their period. Second, few adherents of whatever flavor buy the whole package lock, stock, and barrel, and tend to pick and choose within their religion, hopefully keeping the good and discarding the bad an outright silly. Finally, to be truthful, we all have exactly the same degree of verifiable data to demonstrate that our religion is true. Sorry if that ticks anyone off.

And then there are the nutbars that take religion to the extreme, and we've all had them- the ones who kill in the name of, and to advance, their belief. Sick and sad. Those are the problem people.

This has always seemed like a very civil forum for some of the most widely differing opinions. Hope it stays that way, and I'm confident that it will.

805 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:24:39pm

re: #802 winston06

I mean, first thing first... who are the dumb creationists? Somebody tell me

806 Ojoe  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:24:41pm

re: #803 winston06

Compared to what there is to know?

807 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:25:28pm

re: #806 Ojoe

What do u mean?

808 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:25:46pm

re: #800 winston06

I was talking about the level of intolerance and ignorance. No, I don't think Christians have recently burned anything down becuase they are far more civilized than Muslims. But hey, they would if this was 8 century AD.

Uhmmm.duh. That's the whole issue. Islam is stuck in the 13th century and Christianity has matured and become tolerant of those who do not believe. IN large part due to Martin Luther qwho taught us that only through Faith alone are we saved. Therefore false faith does save the sinner.

809 Ojoe  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:27:29pm

re: #807 winston06

Nobody really knows a lot.

810 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:28:56pm

re: #802 winston06

glad to hear u r doing this. I am appalled by the level of intolerance among most religious zealots.

i ges tht mks you k00l. n. lol.

811 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:28:59pm

re: #808 Quilly Mammoth

I agree with u only half way through your argument. Yes, western civilization matured not to burn down things but I am not sure if it had anything to do with Luther or not. We're good not because of what god told us but because we can be good and tend to be good. Our moral code has nothing to do with religious beliefs.

812 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:29:12pm

re: #810 Quilly Mammoth

yep

813 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:29:31pm

re: #809 Ojoe

maybe

814 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:29:34pm

re: #803 winston06

I know a lot

The fact that you would make that statement proves my point. People who actually know a lot are learned enough to know how little they actually know.

815 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:30:07pm

re: #814 maddogg

That's why I don't take offense when my beliefs are insulted. Unlike your co-religionists thou

816 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:30:28pm

re: #808 Quilly Mammoth

Uhmmm.duh. That's the whole issue. Islam is stuck in the 13th century and Christianity has matured and become tolerant of those who do not believe. IN large part due to Martin Luther qwho taught us that only through Faith alone are we saved. Therefore false faith does save the sinner.

PIMF: does not save the sinner

817 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:31:40pm

I know that there is little moral equivalence there between Islam and Christianity but radical believers act the same way.

818 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:31:52pm

re: #815 winston06

That's why I don't take offense when my beliefs are insulted. Unlike your co-religionists thou

Thats bullshit. And now you show yourself a liar.

819 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:32:05pm

re: #809 Ojoe

Well, i have seen a lot. Maybe knowing a lot is kind of a stretch.

820 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:32:31pm

re: #818 maddogg

It's not up to you to say whats BS or not.

821 Ojoe  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:33:09pm

re: #815 winston06

Thou what? Or "though"? Correct spelling is useful if you really want to communicate.


Bye for now.

822 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:34:39pm

re: #820 winston06

It's not up to you to say whats BS or not.

I just call em like I see em, sonny.

823 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:35:40pm

re: #772 notutopia

so r u

824 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:35:55pm

re: #822 maddogg

as u wish moron

825 Manfred the Wonder Dog  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:37:34pm

People- come on.

826 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:38:23pm

re: #824 winston06

as u wish moron

You might want to work on your debating skills, if your argunents are going to be so weak. Being called a moron by a silly fool does not bother me. :)

827 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:39:03pm

re: #811 winston06

I agree with u only half way through your argument. Yes, western civilization matured not to burn down things but I am not sure if it had anything to do with Luther or not. We're good not because of what god told us but because we can be good and tend to be good. Our moral code has nothing to do with religious beliefs.

Bull. Every society's moral code is shaped by their belief system. You are ignorant.

Overall we tend to be good because cooperation leads to a better life. It's the major downfall of Extreme Libertarians like L. Neil Smith. If you are an atheist then you have to belief that a society's religion codifies it's belief system. If you have Faith you think it is the other way around. You seem to ignore the rational basics of sociology.

The problem with atheism is that it doesn't have a a belief system that has penalties for acting in a manner contrary to the best practices for a society. Which you can do and not break the law...unless you make the law so tight that any free will is virtually impossible.

828 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:39:06pm

re: #826 maddogg

good to kno

829 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:40:22pm

re: #827 Quilly Mammoth

so you help people or donate to charity because your belief system tells you to do so?

830 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:44:42pm

re: #829 winston06

so you help people or donate to charity because your belief system tells you to do so?

Yes. And those that follow a different path donate less. A fact.

831 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:45:08pm

Jewish anger as pope reinstates Holocaust-denier

[Link: www.abc.net.au...]

832 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:46:13pm

re: #830 Quilly Mammoth

still it has nothing to do with any one's faith.

833 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:47:27pm

Pat Condell on Religion

Youtube Video
834 Manfred the Wonder Dog  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:47:31pm

Winston, sure. These are all good ideas, naturally occuring, perhaps, but I first learned them as Church teachings:

The Seven Corporal Works of Mercy:

1. Feed the hungry
2. Give drink to the thirsty
3. Welcome the stranger
4. Clothe the naked
5. Visit the sick
6. Visit the prisoner
7. Bury the dead.

The Spiritual Works of Mercy:

1. To teach the ignorant
2. To counsel the needy
3. To chastise the sinful
4. To comfort the sorrowful
5. To forgive enemies
6. To suffer tribulation
7. To pray for all fervently

835 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:49:05pm

[Link: www.denverpost.com...]

Pope urges U.S. Catholics to be "obedient"

((very sad))

836 TomH999  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:49:08pm

This makes me want to cry. This man was a Catholic bishop. For shame. My uncle entered Dachau 2 days after the liberation and saw all of the bodies and smelled the stench. He was, until 6 months ago, a living witness. Now that the victims and the witnesses are passing away, scum like this "bishop" are pretending that all of this did not happen. How dare they!

If the Nazis had won, then my wife (she is half Jewish) and children would never have been born and I would be speaking German.

837 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:50:17pm

re: #836 TomH999

And thats why I am so angry about these idiot Euro-Catholics who aided Hitler in holocaust

838 jill e  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:51:35pm

Rabbi David Rosen, the international director of interreligious affairs for the American Jewish Committee, said the choice of Ratzinger as Pope would bring continuity to Catholic-Jewish relations. “He has a deep commitment to this issue. And his own national background makes him sensitive to the dangers of anti-Semitism and the importance of Jewish-Catholic reconciliation,” Rosen said

Rabbi Israel Singer, chairman of the World Jewish Congress, called Ratzinger the architect of the “ideological policy to recognize, to have full relations with Israel.”

Cardinal Ratzinger played a key role on a number of issues related to Judaism and the Holocaust during the pontificate of John Paul II involved. For example, he personally prepared Memory and Reconciliation, the 1999 document outlining the church's historical “errors” in its treatment of Jews.

Ratzinger also authorized the 2002 publication, “The Jewish People and the Holy Scriptures,” prepared by the Pontifical Biblical Commission. That 210-page report was seemingly buried upon publication, but contained several important expressions of Church doctrine. For example, it said “the Jewish messianic wait is not in vain” and that Jews and Christians share their wait for the Messiah, although Jews are waiting for the first coming and Christians for the second. The report also expressed regret that certain passages in the Christian Bible condemning individual Jews were used to justify anti-Semitism. It also stressed the importance of the Torah for Christians.

“He has shown this sensitivity countless times, in meetings with Jewish leadership and in important statements condemning anti-Semitism and expressing profound sorrow for the Holocaust,” said Abraham H. Foxman, Anti-Defamation League National Director. “We remember with great appreciation his Christmas reflections on December 29, 2000, when he memorably expressed remorse for the anti-Jewish attitudes that persisted through history, leading to ‘deplorable acts of violence’ and the Holocaust.

839 smokefire  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:51:45pm

Noticed I got down dinged. So what. Probably Catholics who still feel that the Pope is infallible, child abuse by priests is a lie, and Jews drink the blood of nuns at their midnight worship services. Have I missed anything else.............................Oh yeah the Holocaust was a lie.

840 smokefire  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:53:19pm

re: #835 winston06

[Link: www.denverpost.com...]

Pope urges U.S. Catholics to be "obedient"

((very sad))

........lay translation do not question the infallibility of the Pope or his Bishops

841 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:54:18pm

re: #839 smokefire

Welcome to my world, my friend. Get ready for some illogical assaults on this thread.

842 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:55:02pm

re: #840 smokefire

Obedience. Thats what religion is all about. It's a dictatorship. Obey or else!

843 Manfred the Wonder Dog  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:55:28pm

Lotsa folks drinking some bitter beer here tonight.

844 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:55:55pm

re: #843 Manfred the Wonder Dog

I had some Stella tonight. Yum!

845 iam7545  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:56:18pm

re: #838 jill e

Jill - What comes to mind is - " in the land of the blind the one eyed man is King."

Israel considers Abbas a friend - compared to Hamas.

We are judged by our deeds, not our intentions.

846 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:56:43pm

re: #841 winston06

Welcome to my world, my friend. Get ready for some illogical assaults on this thread.

OK, I haven't read all the posts, but it is clear that you are angry... so I don't have to go back and read them all can you, would you break it down for me?

847 smokefire  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:57:48pm

re: #841 winston06

Winston, I am married to a Jew, and a former Catholic, raised in the 50's, 60's and 70's as one. The Bullsh*t I can remember as a former Catholic makes me sick to this day. The denial I hear and see from the Catholics is even that more disgusting.

848 jill e  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:57:49pm

re: #793 smokefire

once again the Catholic Church has shot itself in the foot.
Rampant child abuse, now allowing a bishop that denies the Holocaust,and that 9/11 was an American Job.

Oh well the Pope was a member of the Hitler Youth, so what does one expect.
Don't forget that Pope Pius XII, during WWII, conveniently kept his mouth shut and said nothing about the killing of Italian Jews.
One more thing St. Peter was a Jew before he was the first Pope.


Educate yourself...

The Israeli consul, Pinchas E. Lapide, in his book, Three Popes and the Jews (New York: Hawthorn Books, Inc., 1967) critically examines Pope Pius XII. According to his research, the Catholic Church under Pius XII was instrumental in saving 860,000 Jews from Nazi death camps (p. 214). Could Pius have saved more lives by speaking out more forcefully? According to Lapide, the concentration camp prisoners did not want Pius to speak out openly (p. 247). As one jurist from the Nuremberg Trials said on WNBC in New York (Feb. 28, 1964), "Any words of Pius XII, directed against a madman like Hitler, would have brought on an even worse catastrophe... [and] accelerated the massacre of Jews and priests." (Ibid.) Yet Pius was not totally silent either. Lapide notes a book by the Jewish historian, Jenoe Levai, entitled, The Church Did Not Keep Silent (p. 256). He admits that everyone, including himself, could have done more. If we condemn Pius, then justice would demand condemning everyone else. He concludes by quoting from the Talmud that "whosoever preserves one life, it is accounted to him by Scripture as if he had preserved a whole world." With this he claims that Pius XII deserves a memorial forest of 860,000 trees in the Judean hills (pp. 268-9). It should be noted that six million Jews and three million Catholics were killed in the Holocaust.

849 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:58:19pm

re: #846 brookly red

Long story short... I said Catholic church is full of child molesting priests and that the euro-Catholics aided Hitler during the holocaust (most notably in Belgium and Holland) and some religious zealots here took offense.

850 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:58:59pm

re: #847 smokefire

I've a Jewish gf and I feel for you

851 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 4:59:26pm

re: #832 winston06

As Seawasp once said: You can not truly understand Atlas Shrugged until you read it in the original Klingon.

Winston, you're a bore here. qIp lItha' 'ej Hegh

852 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:00:17pm

re: #851 Quilly Mammoth

u dont have to read my posts if they bore u

853 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:00:33pm

re: #849 winston06

Long story short... I said Catholic church is full of child molesting priests and that the euro-Catholics aided Hitler during the holocaust (most notably in Belgium and Holland) and some religious zealots here took offense.

OK, I asked & you told... carry on.

854 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:00:59pm

The whole idea of religion and godly superstitions is fake.

855 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:01:15pm

re: #853 brookly red

k

856 NY Nana  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:02:23pm

re: #792 iam7545

Sounds like Boston. My parents zt'l could not buy a house where they wanted to until I was 13, in 1951.

My favorite uncle was a Catholic.

When I was growing up, the one 'benefit' of restriction was that we all lived in the same area, making it much easier to see each other every day. But my Mum zt"l started a Brownie troop when I was a kid, as the other troops did not want Jewish girls.

By the time I was a Girl Scout, it was open to Jews.

Quite a few memories. I am so grateful that my kids and grandkids know no restrictions, but the way Jew hate is escalating world-wide, and with Hussein in office, Shrill as Sec. of State, and the odious George Mitchell? I worry a lot.

My cousins were not admitted to certain universities, even though they were over-qualified..unwritten restrictions. The same with classmates in High School...quota systems.

I trained as an RN in a Jewish hospital, as at that time, neither the Mass. General or Childrens' Hospital in Boston accepted Jewish students. My oldest male cousin graduated from Harvard Magna, yet ended up at Tufts Med. School.

Something in me makes me worry that Hussein will cause us to go back to these days, when both he and his bitchy wife made it because they are minorities..we have yet to see his records from Columbia, and Michelle got a job through graft...

/Ain't easy being a Jew.

857 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:02:30pm

As one said once

Religeon is the last bastion of the weak, gullible and intimidated. As archaic as Egyptian, Greek or Roman mythology it'll be disregarded by future people as myth. Fear, as you said, and intimidation (obey god or thou shall not be granted the heavenly acres) is what keeps religeon alive. Our religeous predesessors believed that thunder, lightning, rainbows, eclipses, meteor showers, earthquakes and eruptions were acts of god. We all know better now. The religeon "du jour" is no different.

858 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:04:04pm

re: #849 winston06

You also said that all religion was stupid and there was no God. Remember? Remember calling people idiots?

859 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:04:36pm

re: #842 winston06

Obedience. Thats what religion is all about. It's a dictatorship. Obey or else!

Or else you do not get Eternal Life?

If you don't believe in G-d then the consequences of your failure to Believe do not make any difference.

You are illogical. You just want to lash out and hurt people who have Faith. So sad.

860 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:05:00pm

re: #858 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I stand by what I said.

861 smokefire  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:05:20pm

There is an old saying that when good people do nothing, evil can increase. Many in WWII did not speak up, hence many more died. Denial of the Holocaust, by many contributed to more deaths, but as was said..................."it was only the Jews".

No, jill e, there are not going to be anymore Jews getting on freight cars, and that pisses off a lot of people off. I say, deal with it.
Israel is here, it's not going anywhere, get over it.

862 Lynn B.  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:06:59pm

re: #860 winston06

I stand by what I said.

What you said was that religion is stupid and people who believe in something they can't see are idiots.

Do you think President Bush is an idiot?

863 iam7545  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:07:04pm

re: #856 NY Nana

I share your worries. The Clintons should be enemy #1 of Israel and the Jews. Barak Zero will be worse. The Pope is not gonna help much either.

864 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:07:14pm

re: #852 winston06

u dont have to read my posts if they bore u

I'm bored. So why not?

You actually make me laugh. You try to pretend you have an intellect and you post like a teen texter. You are a genius in your own mid, Winston...and it's funny to watch you keep shouting to the world what a fool you are.

865 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:08:00pm

re: #864 Quilly Mammoth

I have been laughing all day at the level of intolerance shown by religious zealots here.

866 smokefire  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:08:05pm

re: #850 winston06

Don't feel for me. She [wife] says I have more of a Jewish heart than some Jews she knows.

867 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:09:10pm

re: #862 Lynn B.

I stand by what I said earlier.

868 hazzyday  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:09:19pm

re: #795 winston06

The number of dings I got on this thread goes to show the level of tolerance among the religious people. Religion makes people intolerant and their brains empty. And no matter what their belief system is, they are religious. Be it Catholic or Muslim or ..... Take a shot at their religion and they take offense greatly. Some burn embassies, some ding down posts. LoL. I am not surprised at all.

You get down dinged because you aren't honest in your presentation here. It takes a bunch of people to drag it out of you. It's a pattern repeated here by a certain type of person.

869 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:10:54pm

re: #865 winston06

I have been laughing all day at the level of intolerance shown by religious zealots here.

Please define zealots, no really for the sake of arugment, please do.

870 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:11:15pm

re: #868 hazzyday

I see it mainly due to the intolerance of religious believers. I really dont care about the dings but it is a prime example of how ignorant some can be.

871 jill e  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:11:43pm

re: #861 smokefire

There is an old saying that when good people do nothing, evil can increase. Many in WWII did not speak up, hence many more died. Denial of the Holocaust, by many contributed to more deaths, but as was said..................."it was only the Jews".

No, jill e, there are not going to be anymore Jews getting on freight cars, and that pisses off a lot of people off. I say, deal with it.
Israel is here, it's not going anywhere, get over it.


As far as I'm concerned, the Jews and the Catholics have the same groups of people hating them. 6 million Jews, 3 million Catholics died at the hands of the Nazis. I converted to Catholicism after 9/11 and I've been amazed about the ignorance and hate.

872 hazzyday  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:11:52pm

re: #847 smokefire

Winston, I am married to a Jew, and a former Catholic, raised in the 50's, 60's and 70's as one. The Bullsh*t I can remember as a former Catholic makes me sick to this day. The denial I hear and see from the Catholics is even that more disgusting.

You're just making that up.

873 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:12:06pm

re: #869 brookly red

[Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]

874 smokefire  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:12:46pm

re: #856 NY Nana

Nana, wife was from Brockton, MA. Poor Jewish family, they were threatened with being burned out if they sold their house to a black family. Moved to CT. She is an old nurse, too. She is a hard assed Jew, who will not go peacefully into the night. And I Love her for it.

875 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:12:56pm

At the rate winstons moving he'll be in negative karma territory before the days out. Good job winston. And, it has nothing to do with religious intolerance, and everything to do with his horrible attacks upon others.

876 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:13:50pm

re: #875 unrealizedviewpoint

It's okay if it is the only way to show how intolerant people of faith can be.

877 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:14:19pm

re: #865 winston06

I have been laughing all day at the level of intolerance shown by religious zealots here.

What are you smoking? Good Thai bud?

878 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:14:41pm

re: #873 winston06

[Link: www.merriam-webster.com...]

So can I assume that you refer to the 2nd defination ?

879 Lynn B.  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:14:45pm

re: #850 winston06

I've a Jewish gf and I feel for you

Do you often tell her that she's stupid and her religion is fake?

880 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:14:58pm

I now know that arguing with religious fanatics is pointless...

881 jill e  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:15:05pm

re: #840 smokefire

........lay translation do not question the infallibility of the Pope or his Bishops

Actually all Christians are called to be obedient to the teachings of Jesus Christ. This is what the Pope is talking about...

But we accept free will...you can be obedient or not and you actually get to keep your head, unlike some other religions.

882 Lynn B.  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:15:13pm

re: #867 winston06

I stand by what I said earlier.

You're very good at not answering questions.

Do you think President Bush is stupid?

883 smokefire  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:16:27pm

re: #871 jill e

As far as I'm concerned, the Jews and the Catholics have the same groups of people hating them. 6 million Jews, 3 million Catholics died at the hands of the Nazis. I converted to Catholicism after 9/11 and I've been amazed about the ignorance and hate.

Jill, you could not be any more wrong. You had better read your world history. The Jews were thrown out of every country in the world, were blamed for every wrong. Your comment about the 6 million Jews. These 6 million were not war casualties. They were part of a systematic extermination [GENOCIDE] The Catholics were not part of that.

884 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:16:50pm

re: #879 Lynn B.

none of your business....

885 Lynn B.  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:17:22pm

It's a simple question, Winston. Yes or no will do.

886 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:17:33pm

re: #878 brookly red
yes

887 Lynn B.  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:17:51pm

re: #883 smokefire

Jill, you could not be any more wrong. You had better read your world history. The Jews were thrown out of every country in the world, were blamed for every wrong. Your comment about the 6 million Jews. These 6 million were not war casualties. They were part of a systematic extermination [GENOCIDE] The Catholics were not part of that.

Sorry, smoke. They most certainly were.

888 smokefire  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:19:40pm

re: #881 jill e

Actually all Christians are called to be obedient to the teachings of Jesus Christ. This is what the Pope is talking about...

But we accept free will...you can be obedient or not and you actually get to keep your head, unlike some other religions.

I disagree with you regarding the Pope. The Pope, Cardinals, Bishops right down to the parish priest drill into you the infallibility of the Pope. Been there heard it.

889 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:20:31pm

re: #884 winston06

none of your business....


That is actually funny... but really, because this seems like more than just a rant, what other than expressing your self is there to gain? Of course self expression is in itself a valid motive.

890 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:21:19pm
891 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:21:29pm

re: #880 winston06

I now know that arguing with religious fanatics is pointless...

No, you know that insulting people and thinking they should be grateful for it is pointless.

892 smokefire  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:22:16pm

re: #887 Lynn B.

Not to the extent of the Jews. Catholics were not walled up in Ghetto's, rousted out of their homes in the middle of the night. Sent off to the camps and never heard from again. I will grant you that Catholics suffered, like some others, but to say they suffered like the Jews is absolute
BULLSHIT

893 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:22:43pm

re: #889 brookly red

No. WHats funny is that I didn't start this. The religious believers did. I stated a fact and they piled on me for stating the obvious that the Catholic church is stained with lots and lots of child abuse cases and other crimes. Like I said, any one who takes a factual shot at any religious belief system will be attacked. Muslims do it by burning down the Danish embassies and some did it here by attacking me for stating the obvious. That's very revealing to me.

894 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:23:36pm

re: #794 Quilly Mammoth

...I prefer to let Christ condemn the Fig tree...

This is something I never understood, that story.

Jesus goes to a fig tree and finds no fruit on it. Well, the bible account says as a matter of fact that it wasn't the season for them. So he curses the fig tree (what was it supposed to do, put forth fruit because he was Jesus? and if he could raise the dead, surely he could command a fig tree, no? so why is it the fig tree's fault?) and it withers.

Just some divine funnin' around, or am I missing something deep?

895 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:24:30pm

re: #890 buzzsawmonkey

You say that because he is a free thinking anti-religion man. He makes a lot of sense and I am glad brave people like him are out there doing what others (including me) can not and will not be able to do

896 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:25:05pm

re: #893 winston06

That's very revealing to me.

You're revealing your ignorance again.

But do continue.

897 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:25:31pm
898 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:26:07pm

re: #893 winston06

the Catholic church is stained with lots and lots of child abuse cases

Can you please tell us what percentage of priests are child abusers as opposed to men in the general public?

899 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:26:26pm

re: #888 smokefire

I disagree with you regarding the Pope. The Pope, Cardinals, Bishops right down to the parish priest drill into you the infallibility of the Pope. Been there heard it.


Yep, that's why I'm a Lutheran.

900 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:27:10pm

re: #896 Racer X

I have seen your ignorance a long time ago.. but plz do show more of it by dinging down any thing u don't approve. Typical religious mentality here....

901 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:27:43pm
902 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:28:24pm

re: #893 winston06

No. WHats funny is that I didn't start this. The religious believers did. I stated a fact and they piled on me for stating the obvious that the Catholic church is stained with lots and lots of child abuse cases and other crimes. Like I said, any one who takes a factual shot at any religious belief system will be attacked. Muslims do it by burning down the Danish embassies and some did it here by attacking me for stating the obvious. That's very revealing to me.

Well "obvious" is in the eye of the beholder, and yes people do tend defend their faith, so I ask again, what is to be gained? You seem smart enough to know that you are not making converts with insults... so where is this all going?

903 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:28:40pm

re: #898 sattv4u2

The percentage does not matter. What matters is that so-called "men of god" commit horrible crimes and then their church tries to cover it up. That's whats disgusting.

904 Lynn B.  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:29:05pm

re: #883 smokefire

The Catholic Church was particulary suppressed in Poland. Between 1939 and 1945, an estimated 3,000 members, 18% of the Polish clergy, were murdered; of these, 1,992 died in concentration camps.[20] In the annexed territory of Reichsgau Wartheland it was even harsher than elsewhere. Churches were systematically closed, and most priests were either killed, imprisoned, or deported to the General Government. The Germans also closed seminaries and convents persecuting monks and nuns throughout Poland. In Pomerania, all but 20 of the 650 priests were shot or sent to concentration camps. Eighty percent of the Catholic clergy and five of the bishops of Warthegau were sent to concentration camps in 1939; in the city of Wrocław (Breslau), 49% of its Catholic priests were killed; in Chełmno, 48%.[21] One hundred eight of them are regarded as blessed martyrs.[22] Among them, Maximilian Kolbe was canonized as a saint.

Sorry. It's Wikipedia. I know there are better sources out there but I don't have the time...

... 6 million Jews. These 6 million were not war casualties. They were part of a systematic extermination [GENOCIDE] The Catholics were not part of that.

Just to be clear, my disagreement is only with the last sentence and only to the extent you imply (or I understood you to imply) that the Catholics who were murdered in WWII were only "war casualties."

905 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:29:07pm

re: #901 buzzsawmonkey

So any one mocking religious beliefs is like a 12 yr old?

906 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:29:09pm

re: #900 winston06

I am not religious.

Surprised?

907 jill e  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:29:20pm

re: #888 smokefire

I disagree with you regarding the Pope. The Pope, Cardinals, Bishops right down to the parish priest drill into you the infallibility of the Pope. Been there heard it.

Certainly, the Pope is infallible when speaking on faith matters, i.e. when he releases an encyclical, etc. But, for instance, when he opposed the Iraq War, we as Catholics were not required to agree with him. When he reinstates this Bishop, we don't have to agree with it.

But most people don't understand that the Pope can not change anything that is considered a "deposit" of faith that is the Church. He can not change it so that women can be priests. That will never happen because the Church (not the Pope) has held that only men can be priests. He can never determine that abortion is okay in some circumstances because the Church says it is evil under all circumstances.

Although we are to respect priests and bishops, they are not infallible. I'm learining that many cradle Catholics have been taught a great many things over the years that are just plain wrong. For instance, that only Catholics can get into Heaven. A priest was exommunicated BEFORE Vatican II for teaching that.

The Church as instituted by Christ is infallible. But if you look at the people of the Church, beginning with Peter and the apostles, they are very, very flawed and imperfect. Such is the reality of sin. But we are taught that the gates of hell shall not prevail...

The Pope goes to confession just like all the other Catholics...so he's not perfect and doesn't profess to be. But when he explains the beliefs of the Church, we are to understand that those teachings are infallible.

908 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:29:58pm

re: #906 Racer X

nope

909 smokefire  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:30:05pm

Cracker............I've just about had it with the Jew-baiters. Go Israel! Nuke 'em all if you gotta. Let G-d sort the f***ers out.

I had my pee pee whacked for that comment.
Might I make a suggestion for a rephrasing?

Go Israel! Nuke all of the enemies of Israel. There, that narrows it down.

One other thing.
Israel is here, it's not going anywhere, and there will be no more Jews getting on railway cars.

Get Used to it.

910 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:30:20pm

re: #903 winston06

The percentage does not matter. What matters is that so-called "men of god" commit horrible crimes and then their church tries to cover it up. That's whats disgusting.

Nice dodge, but the question stands. Yes, they are MEN of GOD, but MEn 1st, so again, tell us what percentage of priests are child abusers as opposed to men in the general public?
Direct question. Direct answer please

911 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:30:34pm

re: #908 winston06

nope

So what excuse are you going to use now?

912 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:30:52pm

re: #897 cracker-crusader

You were doin' okay till the end.

913 Lynn B.  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:30:58pm

re: #892 smokefire

Not to the extent of the Jews. Catholics were not walled up in Ghetto's, rousted out of their homes in the middle of the night. Sent off to the camps and never heard from again. I will grant you that Catholics suffered, like some others, but to say they suffered like the Jews is absolute
BULLSHIT

Yeah. I'm really uncomfortable about making comparisons in terms of suffering, but yes, it's a quantum leap. And I certainly didn't mean to and would never suggest otherwise.

914 Daisy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:31:00pm

re: #100 yesandno

No...kind of rushed it. However, if lack of hate were a condition for membership in a religious group, most religions would be sparsely membered....

Don't get me wrong, he shouldn't be allowed to be called Bishop, celebrate mass, whatever. But ex-communication was a personal edict to deny HIM the relationship all Catholics seek with God--communion and its soul saving aspects. I don't know that the Pope was seeking to support his hate as much as give him a vehicle for asking for forgiveness. I could be wrong as I am not that learned in this area.

The man is a man, and God will judge him accordingly.

Well said and I agree w/you. Hate the sin, love the sinner.

915 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:31:03pm

re: #910 sattv4u2

No one s talking about PUBLIC here. The church is in question.

916 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:31:17pm
917 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:31:52pm

re: #916 buzzsawmonkey

To me he is a wise man.... to religious zealots he is a 12 yr old. I see...

918 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:32:08pm

re: #865 winston06

I have been laughing all day at the level of intolerance shown by religious zealots here.

If you think I am a religious zealot you are even stupider than I originally thought you were. Which was no small feat. You've made all sorts of idiotic claims here, unable to back anything up, backtracking and trying to change your own words. And the best part is leaving the thread in the middle of it all and sneaking back later to dump more manure.

919 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:33:04pm

re: #918 Mich-again

unlike you, i have a life to live. So I left the thread. Enjoyed a great movie, bought bunch of books and now I am back at it. got a problem with it you moron?

920 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:33:08pm
921 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:33:23pm

re: #915 winston06

No one s talking about PUBLIC here. The church is in question.

I am. So I take your reticence to answer as either A) you don't know or B) you DO know and it would weaken your case
Which is it, A or B?

922 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:33:55pm

re: #920 buzzsawmonkey

I think he makes a lot of sense and there's nothing sacred, especially when it comes to stupid things like religion and god and the rest of it.

923 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:34:06pm

re: #919 winston06

unlike you, i have a life to live. So I left the thread.

No. You were getting your ass handed to you so you left.

924 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:34:11pm

re: #906 Racer X

I am not religious.

Surprised?

Nor am I. I just don't suffer fools (who like teenagers, think they have a handle on things) well. And I most certainly do not think the Universe was a big accident. Nor do many physicists. But Winston is so smart, they should ask his adolescent opinion.

925 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:34:21pm

re: #919 winston06

unlike you, i have a life to live. So I left the thread. Enjoyed a great movie, bought bunch of books and now I am back at it. got a problem with it you moron?


why the moron comment?

926 smokefire  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:34:32pm

The Pope goes to confession just like all the other Catholics...so he's not perfect and doesn't profess to be. But when he explains the beliefs of the Church, we are to understand that those teachings are infallible.

Infallible from who's viewpoint, and standards?

927 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:34:55pm

re: #925 brookly red

why the moron comment?

Its all he knows. Hurl insults like dookie.

928 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:35:11pm

re: #921 sattv4u2

none. I could do some research about it but it won't matter. Public can be corrupt because it doesn't have a gripping claim around morality and good behavior. No one expects the public to be good. But when it comes to church and men of god, every one expects goodness and morality. That's the problem.

929 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:35:32pm

re: #927 Mich-again
hush I'm working here...

930 Lynn B.  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:35:47pm

re: #903 winston06

The percentage does not matter. What matters is that so-called "men of god" commit horrible crimes and then their church tries to cover it up. That's whats disgusting.

Ah. Suddenly you're writing in coherent sentences and actually making some sense (whether or not I agree with it is beside the point).

For the record, if you bother to check I think you'll find that many of the people who have been blasting you for your abominable attitude on this thread are neither believers nor zealots. You've been being deliberately provocative and insulting, for some reason, as well as rather inarticulate. As others have pointed out, this is uncharacteristic behavior for you. And I've read your blog and know that you communicate very well. When you want to.

What gives?

931 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:35:51pm

re: #923 Mich-again

hehe... no dude. I have a life to live and see I m back at it.

932 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:36:12pm

re: #922 winston06

Your dad is going to be so pissed you stunk up his LGF account.

933 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:36:22pm

re: #928 winston06

I could do some research about it but it won't matter.

Why research facts when you already have opinions!

934 sattv4u2  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:36:39pm

re: #928 winston06

none. I could do some research about it but it won't matter. Public can be corrupt because it doesn't have a gripping claim around morality and good behavior. No one expects the public to be good. But when it comes to church and men of god, every one expects goodness and morality. That's the problem.

people of faith do. They (we) have more faith for our fellow man than not. Perhaps therein lies your problem!

935 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:36:41pm

re: #925 brookly red

have got a lot of it today and I am just spitting it back at those who probably deserve it. You may want to scroll up and see what else I have got. lol

936 Daisy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:36:53pm

re: #854 winston06

The whole idea of religion and godly superstitions is fake.

Thus spake Winston.

937 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:36:57pm

re: #933 Mich-again

That too! Thanks 4 reminding me

938 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:37:23pm

re: #894 Cato the Elder

This is something I never understood, that story.

Jesus goes to a fig tree and finds no fruit on it. Well, the bible account says as a matter of fact that it wasn't the season for them. So he curses the fig tree (what was it supposed to do, put forth fruit because he was Jesus? and if he could raise the dead, surely he could command a fig tree, no? so why is it the fig tree's fault?) and it withers.

Just some divine funnin' around, or am I missing something deep?

Something deep.

In Israel at that time it could be expected that a fig tree, if it had leaves, would have figs. (10 out of twelve months). Jesus had recently arrived to great fanfare only to find that much of it was false and that, in fact, the leaders of the Pharisees were using their position for personal wealth and not to actually lead the people to heaven. Thus it looked green but there was no fruit. Not only a parable but an Act.

This is why any Christians believe that it is only G-d that can judge a man's soul.

939 Haverwilde  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:37:40pm

re: #893 winston06

No. WHats funny is that I didn't start this. The religious believers did. I stated a fact and they piled on me for stating the obvious that the Catholic church is stained with lots and lots of child abuse cases and other crimes. Like I said, any one who takes a factual shot at any religious belief system will be attacked. Muslims do it by burning down the Danish embassies and some did it here by attacking me for stating the obvious. That's very revealing to me.

As usual on this thread you are truthful. NO let's call it correctly:YOU LIE!
Read over all of your comments. Where in the early ones did you say:"Catholic church is stained with lots and lots of child abuse cases and other crimes"? No where! You make disgusting generalized opinions without facts and then get argumentative when you are called on it.
We are all aware of child abuse claims. We are all aware of the faults of the Catholic Church and many other churches. But Your broad-brush condemnation is wrong. You have responded with vile and venom.

940 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:37:45pm

re: #932 Racer X

lol... my dad? I am a dad myself. what the hell are you talkin about? LMAO

941 smokefire  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:38:06pm

Why research facts when you already have opinions!

And we all know about opinions. They are like that rectal opening, everyone has one.

942 NY Nana  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:38:31pm

Winston has never said anything like this before. I consider him to be a friend.

Winston, please. This is just not like you.

Before everyone passes judgement on a man who is a friend of Israel, and also appreciates the US, who left Iran, please read his blog. You will see the real Winston.

If there is one of us who has not had a bad day, where they posted stuff they may have later wished they could delete, I know I am one of them...we are all humans, and I refuse to flame Winston. Something has to have happened to cause this.

Winston, you have my email if you want to vent.

Lizards, please take a deep breath. Winston is having a bad day...and we need to back off.

I am going to take a deep breath, and will be back later tonight. I hope that you will learn about Winston from his blog...and realize that he is not one of the bad guys.

943 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:38:43pm

re: #939 Haverwilde

I am quite happy with my own views about vile crimes of catholic church

944 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:38:57pm
945 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:39:20pm

re: #928 winston06

But when it comes to church and men of god, every one expects goodness and morality.

Fools maybe. You don't know your history very well if you expect only goodness and morality from "men of god".

946 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:39:34pm

re: #942 NY Nana

gosh. I am fine. I just can't stand it when people of faith attack me when they're offended. These dimwit morons must learn to be more tolerant.

947 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:39:42pm

re: #905 winston06

So any one mocking religious beliefs is like a 12 yr old?

Jst u.

948 Daisy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:39:54pm

re: #926 smokefire

The Pope goes to confession just like all the other Catholics...so he's not perfect and doesn't profess to be. But when he explains the beliefs of the Church, we are to understand that those teachings are infallible.

Infallible from who's viewpoint, and standards?

The Roman Catholic Church's viewpoint and standards. Next?

949 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:40:34pm

re: #947 Quilly Mammoth

too funny

950 jill e  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:40:35pm

re: #892 smokefire

Not to the extent of the Jews. Catholics were not walled up in Ghetto's, rousted out of their homes in the middle of the night. Sent off to the camps and never heard from again. I will grant you that Catholics suffered, like some others, but to say they suffered like the Jews is absolute
BULLSHIT


I agree...the Jews were directly targetted by Hitler and as a people they have suffered from the beginning. But 3 million Catholics were eliminated as well when they would not stop practicing their faith. John Paul II became a priest in secret and knew that he would be sent to the camps if caught. During WWII, Catholics suffered WITH the Jews...not MORE, but along side.

Christ was a Jew, Mary was a Jew, Peter was a Jew...the first Pope was a Jew! During Mass, we have kept many of the traditions from Judiasm...we cherish our shared heritages...

Now is not the time to turn against one another...I believe that this reinstatement was done not to insult Jews in any way. Outside the Church, will this man ever repent of his horrible beliefs? I don't think so...as Christians, we are taught to pray for our enemies and I'm praying for this lost soul...

951 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:41:08pm

re: #946 winston06

I just can't stand it when people of faith attack me

Asking you to explain yourself or back up a statement does not equal an attack.

952 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:41:42pm

re: #935 winston06

have got a lot of it today and I am just spitting it back at those who probably deserve it. You may want to scroll up and see what else I have got. lol

OK, true that, you have not made many friends. But again, since you can logically argue a point why use insults? I mean, what is to gain?

953 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:41:52pm

re: #951 Mich-again

it does

954 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:42:26pm

re: #952 brookly red

i m just spitting back at those who hurled insults at me before. i have not insulted any one who have not insulted me.

955 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:42:27pm

re: #808 Quilly Mammoth

Uhmmm.duh. That's the whole issue. Islam is stuck in the 13th century and Christianity has matured and become tolerant of those who do not believe. IN large part due to Martin Luther qwho taught us that only through Faith alone are we saved. Therefore false faith does save the sinner.


Once again:

Did I not tell you earlier that a Jew is such a noble, precious jewel that God and all the angels dance when he farts?

--Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)


Alas, it cannot be anything but the terrible wrath of God which permits anyone to sink into such abysmal, devilish, hellish, insane baseness, envy, and arrogance. If I were to avenge myself on the devil himself I should be unable to wish him such evil and misfortune as God's wrath inflicts on the Jews, compelling them to lie and to blaspheme so monstrously, in violation of their own conscience. Anyway, they have their reward for constantly giving God the lie.

--Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)


...but then eject them forever from this country. For, as we have heard, God's anger with them is so intense that gentle mercy will only tend to make them worse and worse, while sharp mercy will reform them but little. Therefore, in any case, away with them!

--Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)


Over and above that we let them get rich on our sweat and blood, while we remain poor and they suck the marrow from our bones.

--Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)


In brief, dear princes and lords, those of you who have Jews under your rule--if my counsel does not please you, find better advice, so that you and we all can be rid of the unbearable, devilish burden of the Jews, lest we become guilty sharers before God in the lies, blasphemy, the defamation, and the curses which the mad Jews indulge in so freely and wantonly against the person of our Lord Jesus Christ, this dear mother, all Christians, all authority, and ourselves. Do not grant them protection, safe-conduct, or communion with us... With this faithful counsel and warning I wish to cleanse and exonerate my conscience.

--Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)


However, we must avoid confirming them in their wanton lying, slandering, cursing, and defaming. Nor dare we make ourselves partners in their devilish ranting and raving by shielding and protecting them, by giving them food, drink, and shelter, or by other neighborly acts...

--Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)


Therefore we Christians, in turn, are obliged not to tolerate their wanton and conscious blasphemy.

--Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)


Accordingly, it must and dare not be considered a trifling matter but a most serious one to seek counsel against this and to save our souls from the Jews, that is, from the devil and from eternal death. My advice, as I said earlier, is:

First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hellfire...

Second, that all their books--their prayer books, their Talmudic writings, also the entire Bible--be taken from them, not leaving them one leaf, and that these be preserved for those who may be converted...

Third, that they be forbidden on pain of death to praise God, to give thanks, to pray, and to teach publicly among us and in our country...

Fourth, that they be forbidden to utter the name of God within our hearing. For we cannot with a good conscience listen to this or tolerate it...

--Martin Luther (On the Jews and Their Lies)


Heil...er, hail Luther. A noble example of tolerance.

956 smokefire  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:42:33pm

re: #942 NY Nana

Good night Nana. Being that fallen Catholic, I snapped too. Being raised a Catholic in the 50's and 60's, and now being married to a Jew, brings back teachings that make me very angry that I believed those teachings from the nuns and priests RE: the Jews.

As they say there is nothing like a fallen Catholic.

957 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:42:51pm

re: #953 winston06

it does

Then your skin is too thin for this room.

958 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:43:13pm

re: #957 Mich-again

?

959 jill e  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:44:10pm

re: #910 sattv4u2

Nice dodge, but the question stands. Yes, they are MEN of GOD, but MEn 1st, so again, tell us what percentage of priests are child abusers as opposed to men in the general public?
Direct question. Direct answer please


They certainly were NOT "men of God." They were pedophiles who took up a profession that they knew would present them access to children. That's why they become teachers and ministers and Boy Scout leaders...

960 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:44:19pm

re: #957 Mich-again

I am not the one who is offended here. The religious bigots and zealots who have been busy dinging me down are offended and seem to have thinner skins. I am fine and very happy with what I believe.

961 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:45:26pm
962 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:45:29pm

re: #958 winston06

?

If you think another poster asking you for a link to back up a statement qualifies as an attack your skin is too thin for this room.

963 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:45:41pm

re: #954 winston06

i m just spitting back at those who hurled insults at me before. i have not insulted any one who have not insulted me.

Again I ask, what is to gain?

964 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:45:41pm

re: #946 winston06

gosh. I am fine. I just can't stand it when people of faith attack me when they're offended. These dimwit morons must learn to be more tolerant.

You are not getting it. You are insulting people and they are offended by _that_. Because you attack with a broad brush. You are calling people of faith stupid and so on. You respond with venom and not argument. You insult and then cry foul.

You're having a game tonight, Winston. Too much of that strong Canadian beer?

965 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:45:51pm

just a quick link for those who would like to know more about child abuse cases within the church

[Link: www.maledicta.com...]

966 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:46:32pm

re: #963 brookly red

Again I ask, what is to gain?

probably nothing. I should not have lowered myself to their idiotic level. You're right

967 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:46:52pm
968 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:47:04pm

re: #964 Quilly Mammoth

Strong Belgian beer. Canadian beer sucks

969 melinwy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:47:22pm

re: #295 winston06

so your feelings were hurt and not mine. See, thats the problem with most religious hardliners. They took offense quick.

The only reason people took offense, was because you were not just being offensive, you were TRYING to be offensive, and making sure everyone knew you were enjoying BEING offensive.

I am sorry for whatever abuse, bad experience, etc you may have had to make you feel so hateful on this issue. As one of those stupid people who happen to believe, I'll pray for you.

970 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:47:51pm

re: #967 ploome hineni

I tried but I was attacked for saying there's a child abuse within the Catholic church. LoL... I wonder if those attacking me were priests themselves.

971 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:48:13pm

Right outta the chute:

re: #64 winston06

Disgusting. These religious people are mentally deranged. i am proud to be a non believer and a more sane person.

re: #145 winston06

European Catholics are famous for their anti-Semitic views and conduct. One reason as to why Protestants left Europe for the New World. Horrible continent. I am glad it is now overrun by Islamists. Let them taste their own awful medicine.

re: #186 winston06

YES! Church and religion is stupid, sure.


Gee, I wonder why no one likes me today?

972 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:48:37pm

re: #969 melinwy

I won't need your prayer. I just don't like religious hardliners of any sort. They are offensive. I was stating facts.

973 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:49:05pm

re: #971 Racer X

I am proud to be hated by fanatics

974 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:49:15pm

re: #966 winston06

probably nothing. I should not have lowered myself to their idiotic level. You're right

Well would you have a logical dissussion with someone who started by placing themself above you? Really would you?

975 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:49:40pm

re: #960 winston06

I haven't down dinged you even once.

But you took a thread about the Pope rescinding the ex-communication of a holocaust denying ex-Bishop as a convenient trigger for your all-catholic-priests-are-pedophiles rant. And then call the people who disagreed with you morons and zealots.

976 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:50:03pm

re: #969 melinwy

probably testing the level of tolerance among the faithful is not allowed here. is it?

977 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:50:38pm
978 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:50:58pm

re: #974 brookly red

I haven't seen any here yet.

979 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:51:19pm

re: #977 buzzsawmonkey

religious people and reason? how is it possible?

980 smokefire  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:51:36pm

re: #973 Winston06

Winston, whatever you do, don't start drawing cartoons of Mohamed. It's bad enough you have the Catholics wanting to have an Inquisition on you, Islam will really be out for you.

LOL

981 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:51:52pm

re: #976 winston06

No. I am still waiting for you to either back up your own statements or admit you are wrong.

982 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:51:56pm

re: #980 smokefire

LMAO... true true

983 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:52:12pm

re: #981 Mich-again

I back up my statement.

984 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:52:18pm

re: #955 Cato the Elder

You are missing the point. Because salvation comes from G-d and not ordained by man this created the opportunity for Christianity to be more tolerant. Because salvation is ordained by man in Islam it is why Islam has made no such changes and is stuck in the 13th century when Sha'aria law spread.

Martin Luther was a man, subject to the things man do wrong such as racism. Virtually every Lutheran branch has condemned this writing of his.

985 jill e  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:52:27pm

re: #926 smokefire

The Pope goes to confession just like all the other Catholics...so he's not perfect and doesn't profess to be. But when he explains the beliefs of the Church, we are to understand that those teachings are infallible.

Infallible from who's viewpoint, and standards?

The Church...been around for 2,000 years so it's pretty much been settled for a while...and you know, if you're not Catholic, you really don't have to worry about it. And even if you are Catholic, you have free will.

986 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:53:12pm

[Link: www.maledicta.com...]

INTERNATIONAL CAMPAIGN AGAINST CHRISTIAN CHILD ABUSE

987 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:53:35pm

re: #970 winston06

I tried but I was attacked for saying there's a child abuse within the Catholic church. LoL... I wonder if those attacking me were priests themselves.

Bull

988 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:53:56pm

re: #987 Quilly Mammoth

dull

989 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:54:36pm

re: #978 winston06

I haven't seen any here yet.

And yet you come back again & again, there must be something or some one here that you want to reach... so what do you really want to say? This seems like as good a time as any.

990 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:54:47pm
991 smokefire  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:55:20pm

re: #982 winston06

.............Winston, I will leave you with this, from the greatest hockey movie of all time.

Enjoy.

Youtube Video
992 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:55:22pm

re: #983 winston06

I back up my statement.

"back up" is a clever way to say "put it in reverse and step on the gas"

993 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:56:26pm

re: #979 winston06

religious people and reason? how is it possible?

All those scientific advances made by the Catholic Church's priests and monks from 1400 on were just happenstance, eh? Unlike the complete lack of any advances in your birth country during that same time.

D00d., it must suck to be you.

994 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:57:06pm

re: #989 brookly red

I am just here defending my opinion that Catholic church is full of child abusing priests. That's all I am saying and some fanatics didn't like it. And then the argument was dragged else where. I haven't seen any intellect shown here by religious people yet

995 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:58:13pm

re: #990 buzzsawmonkey

rejecting god and fake man made religions is the first step towards being reasonable

996 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:58:17pm

re: #970 winston06

I tried but I was attacked for saying there's a child abuse within the Catholic church. LoL... I wonder if those attacking me were priests themselves.

You were attacked for saying every Catholic priest was a pedophile. No one would argue that there have been and for all we know still are cases of abuse. The whole problem came when you made the blanket statements. And still you backtrack without admitting that.

997 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:58:29pm

re: #991 smokefire

nice

998 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:58:40pm

re: #994 winston06

I am just here defending my opinion that Catholic church is full of child abusing priests. That's all I am saying and some fanatics didn't like it. And then the argument was dragged else where. I haven't seen any intellect shown here by religious people yet


I find it amusing that you think yourself qualified to judge intellect.

999 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:59:04pm
1000 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:59:28pm

re: #996 Mich-again

I say it again. I could have accused them of far more horrible stuff than child abuse. The fact that they mislead people is a bigger crime in itself thou

1001 solomonpanting  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:59:29pm

There is one major factor I can think of that may be driving winston's diatribe, and I pray I'm wrong:
Winston, we're you abused as a youngster? You don't necessarily have to answer.

1002 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 5:59:53pm

re: #998 maddogg

Cause I haven't seen any bright intellect here yet.

1003 Occasional Reader  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:00:34pm

re: #995 winston06

rejecting god and fake man made religions is the first step towards being reasonable

COULD YOU PLEASE STOP MAKING ALL OF US ATHEISTS LOOK LIKE FLAMING ASSHOLES?!

Thank you.

1004 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:00:36pm

re: #1001 solomonpanting

LoL... I knew this would come. Question religious authority and god and the first question they ask you is whether you've been abused as a child or not.

1005 smokefire  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:00:42pm

re: #994 winston06

I am just here defending my opinion that Catholic church is full of child abusing priests. That's all I am saying and some fanatics didn't like it. And then the argument was dragged else where. I haven't seen any intellect shown here by religious people yet

Winston, I will disagree with the generalization.
My point is that the Church itself is in denial re: the child abuse. The rotating of the priests, the stonewalling when charges are brought, the head in the sand mentality from the bishops on up, is the disgusting part. I submit that there are good priests, but the hierarchy that will not fix the problem are the ones that compound the problem.

1006 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:00:56pm
1007 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:01:06pm

re: #1003 Occasional Reader

I am not an Atheist myself. I am just a non believer.

1008 jill e  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:01:19pm

re: #973 winston06

I am proud to be hated by fanatics

I don't hate you at all...and I haven't dinged you down at all. But you appear to be just as fanatical in your beliefs.

Here's a great video from Penn (of Penn and Teller), who is an atheist. You might learn from it.

1009 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:01:22pm

re: #1006 buzzsawmonkey

no mirror here. only posts by the likes of you

1010 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:01:39pm

re: #994 winston06

my opinion that Catholic church is full of child abusing priests.

The phrase "full of" says that you think every single priest is a child abuser. Is that really what you think? If so then you are a crazy bigot. If not, you need to learn how to write better.

1011 rumcrook  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:02:20pm

re: #61 vagabond trader

I think your right. I am disheartened that people like this are out there, and some are in my church. but better to know who they are, identified by there own evil words now, instead of cloaked in anonimity. best to know who is who.

1012 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:02:41pm

re: #1010 Mich-again

Bigotry towards what? Men of god?

1013 Last Man  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:03:37pm

Good thing German-American Allied Commander Ike ran all the locals through their respective neighborhood death camps to see what's what. Prolly good the American-German Eisenhower's command "had trouble" feeding all the Wehrmacht POW's and thousands starved. One more historical lesson for Continental Europe. Oh and fuck the Catholic Church Cartoon Cavalcade.

1014 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:03:44pm

re: #995 winston06

rejecting god and fake man made religions is the first step towards being reasonable

If you are the poster boy for "being reasonable", then this non-believer feels that religion has a bright future.

1015 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:03:58pm

re: #1012 winston06

So you are saying that you think every single Catholic priest is a pedophile? Yes or no.

1016 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:04:33pm

re: #1014 Mr Pancakes

I don't claim to be that either. But maybe you're not solid in your anti-religious beliefs either

1017 Occasional Reader  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:04:47pm

re: #1007 winston06

I am not an Atheist myself. I am just a non believer.

Um, the difference being?

(By the way, buzzsawmonkey is roughly eight times smarter than you. Just thought you should know.)

1018 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:05:02pm

re: #1015 Mich-again

Yes they are capable of being that

1019 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:05:12pm

re: #995 winston06

rejecting god and fake man made religions is the first step towards being reasonable

I get where you are coming from now. The seeming dissonance between your blog and this thread. It's the Persian/Arab "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" meme. You hate the people that made you flee Iran. Therefore you side with those who are in conflict with them...until the nasty fact that they too might be religious comes up. You support Jews as an ethnicity but not as a religion. You supported Bush, but not Dubya the follower of Christ. You call your self a neo-con but despise the neo-cons that are so because of faith.

Wow.

1020 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:05:25pm

re: #994 winston06

I am just here defending my opinion that Catholic church is full of child abusing priests. That's all I am saying and some fanatics didn't like it. And then the argument was dragged else where. I haven't seen any intellect shown here by religious people yet

OK, the whole world is filled with child abuse. And is an awful thing. And yes the church has had it's share... I have even met a few victims. If you know of a case it is your duty to report it. But please do not take it out on others... does this make sense?

1021 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:05:30pm

re: #1017 Occasional Reader

The difference is that Atheism is another form of organized religion. I want none of that.

1022 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:06:02pm

re: #1018 winston06

Yes they are capable of being that

That statement means nothing. Every human being is "capable" of unspeakable crimes. That is not what I asked.

1023 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:06:41pm

re: #1019 Quilly Mammoth

You don't think you're bright, do you?

1024 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:07:04pm

re: #1021 winston06

The difference is that Atheism is another form of organized religion.

No it is not. More bullshit.

1025 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:07:18pm

re: #1020 brookly red

I didn't take it on others. I just stated FACTS which seems to be hard for some to digest

1026 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:07:30pm

re: #1024 Mich-again

it is you dimwit

1027 Occasional Reader  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:08:04pm

re: #1021 winston06

The difference is that Atheism is another form of organized religion. I want none of that.

Wow. You're stupid about atheism, too.

1028 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:08:11pm

I am outta here.... peace out....

1029 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:08:27pm

re: #1023 winston06

You don't think you're bright, do you?

I know I am, but what about you?

1030 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:09:01pm

re: #1027 Occasional Reader

good. I don't claim to be one. I am an infidel to all sort of religious beliefs

1031 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:09:13pm

re: #1029 Quilly Mammoth

I am bright. I think u r not

1032 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:10:47pm

re: #1026 winston06

it is you dimwit

No it isn't. Atheism just means you see no reason to believe in God. Which is not the same thing as believing fully that there is no God. Atheism is not a religion.

1033 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:11:44pm

re: #1025 winston06

I didn't take it on others. I just stated FACTS which seems to be hard for some to digest

OK, I will buy that... now seeing that the world is full of those who would/do abuse children, what makes the church a target in your eyes?

1034 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:12:13pm
1035 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:13:16pm

This is like mud wrestling with a pig.

1036 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:13:43pm

re: #1031 winston06

I am bright. I think u r not

I'm rubber, you are glue. Whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you!

1037 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:14:22pm

re: #1035 Mich-again

This is like mud wrestling with a pig.

So? Do you think it was alcohol or drugs?

1038 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:15:21pm

re: #1037 unrealizedviewpoint

Worse. Neither.

1039 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:16:32pm

re: #1035 Mich-again

you know... I am not offended by being called a pig but you showed who a true pig is through out this thread. Nice knowing that.

1040 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:17:28pm

re: #1033 brookly red

I would have said the same thing if it was a synagogue or a mosque. They're almost the same crap.

1041 Occasional Reader  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:18:49pm

winston06, grow the fuck up.

On to another thread.

1042 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:20:09pm

re: #1041 Occasional Reader

i m grown up. you grow the fuck up

1043 iam7545  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:20:26pm

re: #959 jill e

Jill - the Vatican is a Corporation. They knowingly covered up the many cases of sexual abuse for YEARS. The crime is not that there are some Clergy that were the offenders as we all know that they are human and prone to desires. The crime is that as an organization, from top on down there was a decision made to cover up.


I am sure that the Church took the approach that you do with this Holocaust Denying Bishop and prayed for all of the Priests that were the offenders. Apparently that did not work out so well and nearly bankrupt the Vatican and many Diocese throughout the world.

I suppose your efforts to save this Holocaust denying Bishop will be met with similar results.

1044 ratherdashing  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:21:26pm

... from winston06's blog


Please remain civil. No bad-mouthing, no name-calling or I'll delete/edit.

1045 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:21:31pm

re: #1043 iam7545

this is also exactly my point. It's almost a criminal organization

1046 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:21:32pm

re: #938 Quilly Mammoth

Something deep.

In Israel at that time it could be expected that a fig tree, if it had leaves, would have figs. (10 out of twelve months). Jesus had recently arrived to great fanfare only to find that much of it was false and that, in fact, the leaders of the Pharisees were using their position for personal wealth and not to actually lead the people to heaven. Thus it looked green but there was no fruit. Not only a parable but an Act.

This is why any Christians believe that it is only G-d that can judge a man's soul.

So the fig tree was to blame for the acts of the Pharisees and the false fanfare? You mean they looked green but there was no fruit? Why blame that on a fig tree? Why not curse them?

Mark 11, 12-13: The next day as they were leaving Bethany he was hungry. Seeing from a distance a fig tree in leaf, he went of to see if he could find anything on it. When he reached it he found nothing but leaves; it was not the time for figs.

Seems like he was being petty.

1047 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:22:03pm

re: #1044 ratherdashing

mind u, i didn't start it here. i m only spitting it back at the bad mouthers. lol

1048 Haverwilde  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:22:56pm

Wow, what an amazing thread. I was getting annoyed with winston06 and his diattibes. And then it became almost neurotic in nature. I feel sorry for him. That kind of emotional torrent must have some strange and unhappy roots.

1049 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:23:19pm

I have found it very hard to argue with blind religious zealots, whether it was in Iran, Turkey, Holland or Canada and the US. They suffer from some sort of blindness of their logical senses. Too sad there's no cure for them.

Peace out! I am really outta here

1050 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:23:48pm

re: #1048 Haverwilde

no roots. I am totally anti religion....

1051 Daisy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:26:14pm

re: #27 Charles

He was excommunicated because his consecration as a bishop was unauthorized by the Vatican.

Boy, I almost missed that, glad I caught it way up there :).

So, the guy was never an authentic Catholic Bishop. Was he excommunicated for impersonating a Catholic Bishop or for his hatefulness? Or both? Rescinding his ex-communication is most likely a matter of mercy. If he's not confessed the error of his ways, my understanding is that he would be prohibited from receiving Communion, but not from attending Mass or receiving the other Sacraments ( most especially, one could hope, Confession/forgiveness).

1052 Haverwilde  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:26:24pm

re: #1050 winston06

no roots. I am totally anti religion....


I have no problem with being anti-religious. "Some of my best friends are anti-religious." Of course they are honest and out front about it; and don't make broad generalizations, and claim them as facts.

1053 ratherdashing  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:26:25pm

re: #1047 winston06

dude. I've read the whole thread. I don't see it that way. You came off harsh to begin with. People reacted to it and you didn't want to back down. It's a male thing (sometimes) to not want to back down and rephrase things. I'm guilty of it, too.

I've always enjoyed your spinoff threads that you link. You find great news articles that shed light on what goes unreported elsewhere. But, today I've seen another side of winston that doesn't look so appealing.

Just being straight with you.

1054 wee fury  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:26:38pm

Established religions, politics, education, government . . . or any group that has people in it -- there is abuse (ethical, physical etc.) That does not mean that the ideas behind those establishments are bad -- rather, some of the people promoting them are.
Pax.

1055 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:27:06pm

re: #1044 ratherdashing

... from winston06's blog

"Please remain civil. No bad-mouthing, no name-calling or I'll delete/edit."

That's funny.... I must admit that it was fun watching everyone poke "it" with a stick here for awhile.

On to a new thread I guess

1056 iam7545  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:28:53pm

re: #1045 winston06

I agree - the Vatican has little to do with Religion just as Israel has little to do with Judaism.

1057 solomonpanting  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:28:54pm

re: #1004 winston06

LoL... I knew this would come. Question religious authority and god and the first question they ask you is whether you've been abused as a child or not.

First question? Nope, it took your multiple sexual abuse references for me to ask. I'm relieved that wasn't your fate, though.

1058 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:29:51pm

re: #1053 ratherdashing

I m not appealing when it comes to religions/ideologies. Take it or leave it. I am not here to please every one

1059 jill e  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:31:18pm

re: #1051 Daisy

Boy, I almost missed that, glad I caught it way up there :).

So, the guy was never an authentic Catholic Bishop. Was he excommunicated for impersonating a Catholic Bishop or for his hatefulness? Or both? Rescinding his ex-communication is most likely a matter of mercy. If he's not confessed the error of his ways, my understanding is that he would be prohibited from receiving Communion, but not from attending Mass or receiving the other Sacraments ( most especially, one could hope, Confession/forgiveness).

Thank YOU, Daisy! And I don't see anything about him being a child molester either.

1060 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:31:19pm

re: #1058 winston06

I m not appealing when it comes to religions/ideologies. Take it or leave it. I am not here to please every one

But you have managed to displease everyone, not just the fanatics you claim to target.

1061 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:31:44pm
Youtube Video
1062 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:32:16pm

re: #1060 unrealizedviewpoint

been displeasing religious fanatics all my life.

1063 Daisy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:32:47pm

re: #1059 jill e

Oh, you're very welcome. Reality is a GOOD thing :)

1064 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:33:35pm

re: #1062 winston06

been displeasing religious fanatics all my life.

Are you incapable of even comprehending a simple sentence?
I said: You have managed to displease everyone, not just the fanatics you claim to target.

1065 ratherdashing  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:34:33pm

re: #1058 winston06

I m not appealing when it comes to religions/ideologies. Take it or leave it. I am not here to please every one

I know you're "really outta here" but can you even understand how broad statements of religion being "moronic" can insult people? There are those of us on LGF who have had their lives changed (for the good) because of faith and religion.

1066 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:34:38pm

re: #1064 unrealizedviewpoint

don't see how any sane anti-religion person could be displeased with the facts I stated.

1067 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:35:07pm

re: #1040 winston06

I would have said the same thing if it was a synagogue or a mosque. They're almost the same crap.


Would have but didn't, there is a difference you know... I my self am not a Catholic. Having said that, it would appear that you have an issue with that following... may I inquire as to your up-bringing? Of course you may decline.

1068 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:35:22pm

re: #1065 ratherdashing

good. And I am sure there are a lot of us whose lives have been destroyed because your fake faiths like Islam or Christianity.

1069 Haverwilde  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:36:20pm

The Catholic church, and the Catholic Church in America, is paying a high price for their criminal negligence in the supervision of pedophile priests. (IN money, in reputation, in lost parishers, in moral athority, in just about every way imaginable. And it is right that they pay in all those ways for the sins of the leadership of the church.) Our local Parish has defrocked two priests, one for sexual contact with a teenage girl, and another for an act of pedophilia. They acted quickly. Slowly the church is learning.
I am considered a 'heretic' by most of my friends within the church. I don't keep my mouth shut when the priest makes absurd comments from the pulpit. That is in part due to being raised a Baptist, attending seminary which was part of theological union with Catholics. So I used to go drinking with just about every flavor of catholic.

1070 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:36:21pm

re: #1066 winston06

don't see how any sane anti-religion person could be displeased with the facts I stated.

You don't think that assaulting people in the presence of others is distasteful to others present? You got a major screw loose.

1071 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:36:24pm

re: #1067 brookly red

Grew up in a complete non practicing, non-believing family (3 generations of non practicing people) in a freaking Islamic country.

1072 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:38:16pm

re: #858 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You also said that all religion was stupid and there was no God. Remember? Remember calling people idiots?

Nutshell - No.

Long story - Why should I remember what I wrote since all I really want to do is piss people off and will say and do anything to do that.

1073 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:38:28pm

Source of hatred in the world is organized religion (I have seen a lot of it here I guess)

Youtube Video
1074 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:38:46pm

re: #1072 FurryOldGuyJeans

speak for yourself

1075 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:39:16pm

re: #954 winston06

i m just spitting back at those who hurled insults at me before. i have not insulted any one who have not insulted me.

Your not only an intolerant bigot, your a blatant liar!

1076 ratherdashing  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:39:36pm

re: #1068 winston06

good. And I am sure there are a lot of us whose lives have been destroyed because your fake faiths like Islam or Christianity.

Now we're getting somewhere. Maybe later (when things cool down) you can tell us if/how your life was destroyed by the fake faiths. I'd bet people would be interested to know your viewpoint.

1077 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:39:50pm

re: #1075 DEZes

so are u

1078 Daisy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:40:20pm

re: #1066 winston06

don't see how any sane anti-religion person could be displeased with the facts I stated.

Winston, breathe. Deeply. Now, let it go.

1079 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:40:29pm

re: #1076 ratherdashing

Billions of people's lives are destroyed in some way by fake faiths.

1080 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:40:38pm

re: #1003 Occasional Reader

COULD YOU PLEASE STOP MAKING ALL OF US ATHEISTS LOOK LIKE FLAMING ASSHOLES?!

Thank you.

OR, he's only doing that for himself. All other atheist lizards get your own foot to cram in their mouth and shove down their throat, if they truly want to. ;)

1081 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:40:49pm
1082 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:40:53pm

re: #1071 winston06

Grew up in a complete non practicing, non-believing family (3 generations of non practicing people) in a freaking Islamic country.

Dang, well hats off to you - you must be tougher than you sound... but with all the errr, underaged issues associated with Islam, why the beef with Catholics ?

1083 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:41:18pm

re: #1077 winston06

so are u

Prove me to be a liar.

1084 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:41:24pm

re: #1078 Daisy

I really want to go now. 9:40 pm here and the next movie is on but just can't let any personal insults go without any response.

1085 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:41:49pm

re: #1046 Cato the Elder

No, it was Act _and_ a parable. He is showing that when man uses Religion for his own betterment that faith dies from the roots up. The Disciples noticed that the tree died in days and not weeks. Moreover, the Fig tree's fruitfulness was a sign of blessing for the nation of Israel.

The tree, if it had leaves, should have had fruit. That it was not the season for that Fig tree is part of the parable. The Pharisee's were saying that if their followers followed their interpretation of God's Law correctly they would go to heaven. At that time Christ was about to prove, through the cross, that no one under the new covenant goes to G-d but through belief in Christ. The new covenant replacing the laws given before, as no man could be perfectly faithful (perhaps excepting Elijah and Job)

I've always found it faulty to take one or two sentences of teh New Testament and say "it means this" because it has to be taken in context of it's entirety. Hence my disagreements with Baptists who take one line and say "no booze" when it is clear that Christ drank wine and converted water into wine.

1086 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:42:09pm

re: #1074 winston06

speak for yourself

You won't answer any question put to you without flinging feces so you do need an interpreter.

1087 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:42:12pm

re: #1082 brookly red

same crap. different pile....

1088 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:42:25pm

re: #1086 FurryOldGuyJeans

no thnx

1089 solomonpanting  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:42:43pm

re: #1074 winston06

speak for yourself

Speaks for me too.

1090 ratherdashing  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:43:32pm

re: #1084 winston06

I really want to go now. 9:40 pm here and the next movie is on but just can't let any personal insults go without any response.

We'll see you later.

1091 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:44:17pm

re: #1087 winston06

same crap. different pile....

OK last question... is there anyone (group) that you do like?

1092 Daisy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:44:50pm

re: #1073 winston06

Source of hatred in the world is organized religion (I have seen a lot of it here I guess)


[Video]

I've heard that one plenty of times. It's a conventional statement in my community (sigh). I'm not going to argue w/you (and one insult from you and I'm gone) but have you considered the number of murders committed under the auspices of anti-religious regimes? Let me mention a few: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Castro .. I'm sure you get the drift. No need to reply if you don't want to reply; just think about it.

1093 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:44:52pm

re: #1071 winston06

Grew up in a complete non practicing, non-believing family (3 generations of non practicing people) in a freaking Islamic country.

So I am right.

1094 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:44:54pm

re: #1084 winston06

I really want to go now. 9:40 pm here and the next movie is on but just can't let any personal insults go without any response.

Fuck off asshole........ woops sorry everyone.

1095 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:45:14pm

re: #1084 winston06

I really want to go now. 9:40 pm here and the next movie is on but just can't let any personal insults go without any response.

No one here is stopping you from leaving. I, for one, would be eternally grateful if you did so.

You just can't stop flinging feces without provocation.

1096 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:45:47pm

I wonder what winston06 thinks of Charles, assuming Charles believes he's crossed more then one line here this day?

1097 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:46:08pm

Why do I get the impresion he will go watch Planet of the Apes, and cheer for the apes?

1098 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:47:07pm

re: #1094 Mr Pancakes

Is it a Christian behavior?

1099 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:47:33pm

Religion is bullshit

Youtube Video
1100 Daisy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:47:36pm

re: #1084 winston06

I really want to go now. 9:40 pm here and the next movie is on but just can't let any personal insults go without any response.

Listen: You are not responding, you are reacting. There is a very substantial difference. Give yourself a break and think about what I just told you.

1101 jlevyellow  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:48:10pm

In synagogue I sit next to Mark S, a man in his eighties, who shares stories of his and his wife's survival in Auschwitz during WW II. He has given evidence on Steven Speilberg's website for posterity. He survived by grace, luck, a sixth sense, whatever. Twice he entered the hospital having fallen ill only to return to find everyone in his barrack had been taken for extermination. On both occasions he left the hospital prematurely, forcing himself back to return to work, only to escape by hours the clearing out of the hospital to the extermination section of Auschwitz. On other occasions his work was considered so adequate that the Polish boss of his work unit asked that he not be taken on the "transport" as the short ride to the crematoria was called.

Of course, this nutcase was somewhat right for the wrong reasons. It is absolutely true that six million Jews did not enter the gas chambers. Many died from starvation, overwork, disease, a single bullet, being buried alive, hanging, torture, and medical experiments. Mark S describes without prompting the work of Mengele, the Angel of Death, as he pointed left and right during "selections."

Many died at the whim of their captors. A friend described to me how he lost his uncle. His father and the father's brother were forced into a line in front of the camp commander's office. Of course, they stood next to each other for some form of emotional support. The underling officers decided that they would give the camp commander a birthday present. What they did was to march this line past the commander, shooting every other prisoner in the line.

I do hope someone reads this post.

1102 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:48:36pm

re: #1100 Daisy

I am defending myself. Sure! I stated a fact and religious fanatics didn't like it.

1103 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:48:44pm

re: #1094 Mr Pancakes

Fuck off asshole........ woops sorry everyone.

Ain't nothing I ain't said before, and was currently thinking. ;)

1104 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:49:01pm

By the way, winston6? Just because you are an angry fool doesn't mean I won't pray that you find Grace in your life. Going through life hating on people who don't see things your way is a tough way to live.

1105 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:49:08pm

re: #1098 winston06

Is it a Christian behavior?

I dunno, I can't speak for Christians...... I'm not one.

1106 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:49:37pm

Thanks Furry and Maddog!

1107 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:49:47pm

re: #1104 Quilly Mammoth

Pray to who? lol

1108 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:49:47pm

re: #1099 winston06

Religion is bullshit


[Video]

Nobody is arguing the merits of religion. All that's happening here is everyone is mocking you.

1109 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:49:47pm

re: #1100 Daisy

Listen: You are not responding, you are reacting. There is a very substantial difference. Give yourself a break and think about what I just told you.

Operative word: Think.

Ain't gonna happen, ever.

1110 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:50:31pm

re: #1095 FurryOldGuyJeans

No one here is stopping you from leaving. I, for one, would be eternally grateful if you did so.

You just can't stop flinging feces without provocation.

He's a fecologist:)

1111 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:50:39pm

re: #1108 unrealizedviewpoint

good for them....

1112 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:51:19pm

re: #1106 DEZes

Thanks Furry and Maddog!

I don't know what for, but you're welcome. :)

1113 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:51:26pm

re: #1102 winston06

I am defending myself. Sure! I stated a fact and religious fanatics didn't like it.


You wouldn't know a fact if it fell out of the sky, landed on your face and started to wiggle.

1114 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:51:50pm

Well that was interesting...

1115 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:51:57pm

re: #1113 DEZes

says who? a dimwitted moron like you?

1116 Haverwilde  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:52:47pm

re: #1101 jlevyellow
You have brought back all of the emotions I felt after spending several hours at the Holocaust Museum in D.C.
It is unimaginable that degree of inhumanity.
Thanks for the post.

1117 solomonpanting  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:53:03pm

re: #1102 winston06

I am defending myself. Sure! I stated a fact and religious fanatics didn't like it.

As many have commented, that's not all you stated. Do you understand that point? Rhetorical question.

1118 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:53:20pm

re: #1107 winston06

Pray to who? lol

My G-d and yours.

1119 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:54:13pm

re: #1102 winston06

I am defending myself. Sure! I stated a fact and religious fanatics didn't like it.

Facts I haven't seen. Opinion is what you are dishing out.

1120 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:54:16pm

re: #1117 solomonpanting

It's a fact that Catholic church is full of child molesting priests and the evidence is there for the smart people to see. Some people would like to deny it because they are gutless to admit to the corruption of the religious beliefs.

1121 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:54:39pm

re: #1118 Quilly Mammoth

there's no god dude

1122 iam7545  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:55:55pm

re: #1101 jlevyellow

I read it!

You have been blessed to know this courageous man.

1123 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:56:16pm

re: #1117 solomonpanting

As many have commented, that's not all you stated. Do you understand that point? Rhetorical question.

Umm, no, he doesn't understand.

©2009 Furry Troll Interpretive Service, LLC

1124 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:56:22pm

re: #1115 winston06

I think your are going to keep getting your ass handed to you winston if you continue...... might be wise to stop drinking and go watch your MOOVEE.

1125 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:56:54pm

re: #1120 winston06

You are indeed a bigot and NY Nana was wrong about you.

1126 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:57:30pm

re: #1115 winston06

says who? a dimwitted moron like you?

Yeah, a dimwitted moron like me said it, now maybe if I type slower you won't have to ask again!

1127 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:57:59pm

re: #1125 Mich-again

bigot in whose eyes? you? go away plz

1128 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:58:11pm

re: #1119 FurryOldGuyJeans

Facts I haven't seen. Opinion is what you are dishing out.

That's not opinion! He's dishing out hatred. That's what he's dishing out.

1129 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:58:14pm
1130 Daisy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:58:27pm

Well, tomorrow is another day. Goodnight Lizards .. and that means you too, Winston (and Winston, as much as there is a difference between responding and reacting, there is a difference between protecting and defending as well as between defending and attacking. Maybe it's time to give some solid thought to protecting yourself. You don;t have to keep this up. Really.)

1131 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:58:31pm

This is from a former catholic

Youtube Video
1132 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:58:56pm

re: #1128 unrealizedviewpoint

why can I not hate religions?

1133 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:59:05pm

re: #1127 winston06

Why should I go away? You're the one who is on a collision course with the banning stick.

1134 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:59:11pm

re: #1127 winston06

bigot in whose eyes? you? go away plz

Why should he? You are the one that complained about wanting to leaving. Don't let us stop you, please!

1135 winston06  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:59:33pm

re: #1130 Daisy

good night.... fanatics need to cool down and think more about their belief system.

I am out to watch "Defiance" tonight.

bye

1136 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:59:49pm

re: #1129 taxfreekiller

so, winston, -06

what do you think the last thing you will say on earth will be,

"oops?"

Mommy!

1137 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 6:59:52pm

re: #1132 winston06

why can I not hate religions?

Hate all you want.

1138 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:01:01pm

re: #1121 winston06

there's no god dude

Which is an opinion that can be debated without the hatred you inject. I really feel sorry for you. The only other people I have met that are so filled with hatred towards others have been some Phreddy Phelps Phools I argued with once. An some Kluxers I have met. Fanatic clearly come in all persuasions.

1139 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:01:01pm

OK, without passing judgment, THAT is how elections & wars are won.

One dedicated can hold off an army that shows mercy...

1140 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:01:12pm
1141 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:01:33pm

re: #1132 winston06

why can I not hate religions?

Because there are people involved. Many good people. And you unnecessarily insult them with your hate-filled bigoted words.

1142 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:01:37pm

re: #1128 unrealizedviewpoint

That's not opinion! He's dishing out hatred. That's what he's dishing out.

Still his opinion.

1143 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:01:43pm

re: #1132 winston06

why can I not hate religions?

You don't hate religions, you hate people.

1144 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:01:49pm

Charles,

Any way you could delete this entire thread?

Thanks

1145 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:01:55pm

re: #1112 FurryOldGuyJeans

I don't know what for, but you're welcome. :)


Having my back this time. ;)

1146 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:02:04pm

re: #1141 unrealizedviewpoint

He's off to the cinema and a big bag of popcorn.

1147 solomonpanting  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:02:19pm

re: #1132 winston06

why can I not hate religions?

You're only pretty as you feel.....

1148 Quilly Mammoth  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:02:23pm

re: #1140 Iron Fist

The funny thing about people that don't believe in God. God believes in them.

:-)

Indeed! :)

1149 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:03:02pm
1150 Daisy  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:03:10pm

re: #1140 Iron Fist

The funny thing about people that don't believe in God. God believes in them.

:-)

Amen and goodnight.

1151 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:03:16pm

re: #1144 Racer X

Charles,

Any way you could delete this entire thread?

Thanks

Please no Sir, so much to be learned.

1152 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:03:40pm

re: #1132 winston06

why can I not hate religions?

You can..... who said you couldn't? Now, if you come to a room full of people and start insulting them for their belief in religion...... then you have a problem.

1153 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:04:07pm

re: #1132 winston06

why can I not hate religions?

You can hate all you want.

Don't expect others to tolerate you when you start flinging feces without provocation.

1154 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:04:42pm
1155 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:05:37pm

re: #1133 Mich-again

Why should I go away? You're the one who is on a collision course with the banning stick.

repeat
Just wanted to see those words again.

1156 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:06:17pm

re: #1154 Iron Fist

Once there is a victor, there can be peace. No victor, no peace. Funny then how all the peacemakers make sure there can be no victor.

1157 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:06:30pm

re: #1155 unrealizedviewpoint

repeat
Just wanted to see those words again.


LOL.

1158 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:06:56pm

g-nite. Dinner awaits. Lemon Rooster. Yummy!

1159 Spiny Norman  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:07:05pm

re: #1047 winston06

mind u, i didn't start it here. i m only spitting it back at the bad mouthers. lol

Liar.

re: #64 winston06

Disgusting. These religious people are mentally deranged. i am proud to be a non believer and a more sane person.

You went from that to childish insults and then on to ugly naked bigotry enough to even offend many of the Atheists on this forum in short order.

1160 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:07:48pm

re: #1158 unrealizedviewpoint

g-nite. Dinner awaits. Lemon Rooster. Yummy!

How do you know its a rooster?

1161 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:08:45pm
1162 Haverwilde  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:09:35pm

re: #1160 Mich-again

How do you know its a rooster?

Funny, I wondered the same thing. Then decided must be a farm person.

1163 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:10:01pm

re: #1154 Iron Fist

Mercy has no place on the battlefield until after the battle is fought and won. Only then will it be acceptible to show mercy to the defeated. It still may not be a wise choice, though.

know your enemy, know your self, know the qoute.

1164 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:10:32pm

re: #1151 brookly red

Please no Sir, so much to be learned.

I feel stupiderer.

Must be me.

1165 Mr Pancakes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:11:38pm

re: #1160 Mich-again

How do you know its a rooster?

There's a comb and a cock in the giblet bag.

1166 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:12:23pm

re: #1159 Spiny Norman

This is one is impervious to logic and facts.

1167 PayBackTime  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:12:41pm

I bet this bum is a pal of huton and mel gibson too.

1168 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:13:11pm

re: #1164 Racer X

I feel stupiderer.

Must be me.


fava beans & a fine Chianti...

1169 Haverwilde  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:16:22pm

The thread is valuable for #1101 alone.
Of course, we all did assist winston06 in the hijacking of this thread.

1170 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:16:36pm

re: #1159 Spiny Norman

You went from that to childish insults and then on to ugly naked bigotry enough to even offend many of the Atheists on this forum in short order.


I am far from a religious man, I let people believe as they will.
But I have zero tolerance for bigotry in any shape or form.
I have no clue what has left winston in such an intolarant state of other peoples beliefs and could care less what the circumstances maybe.
He has done nothing but insult others like a spoiled brat, and he has been treated as such.
And oh, Hi!

1171 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:16:45pm
1172 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:19:33pm

re: #1035 Mich-again

This is like mud wrestling with a pig.

Yeah, but the pig usually has way too much fun. ;)

1173 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:21:11pm
1174 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:22:35pm

re: #1169 Haverwilde

The thread is valuable for #1101 alone.
Of course, we all did assist winston06 in the hijacking of this thread.

In a way he illustrated the irrationality of any who hate, the topic of the thread.

1175 solomonpanting  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:23:52pm

re: #1166 FurryOldGuyJeans

This is one is impervious to logic and facts.

"The blind hatred is strong in this one, Luke."

1176 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:25:02pm

re: #1173 taxfreekiller

I would earlier have surmised possible abuse by a priest, but after the revelation of fleeing an Islamic country points to projection of fears of Islam.

1177 Cato the Elder  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:25:54pm

re: #1165 Mr Pancakes

There's a comb and a cock in the giblet bag.

Er, wouldn't the rooster be the cock? Or are you talking about the other thing?

1178 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:25:58pm

re: #1174 FurryOldGuyJeans

In a way he illustrated the irrationality of any who hate, the topic of the thread.

exactly...

1179 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:27:12pm

re: #1165 Mr Pancakes

There's a comb and a cock in the giblet bag.

Rotating title material there.

1180 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:28:36pm

re: #1176 FurryOldGuyJeans

I would earlier have surmised possible abuse by a priest, but after the revelation of fleeing an Islamic country points to projection of fears of Islam.

nowhere was fleeing sugested...

1181 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:28:40pm

*chucka-chucka-chuck*

PSS-SSSS-SSSSS-SSSSSSSS!

(Anti-troll spray)

1182 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:29:17pm

re: #1172 FurryOldGuyJeans

Yeah, but the pig usually has way too much fun. ;)

Its almost as bad as arguing with an engineer!

1183 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:30:50pm
1184 Spiny Norman  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:31:12pm

re: #1170 DEZes

I am far from a religious man, I let people believe as they will.
But I have zero tolerance for bigotry in any shape or form.
I have no clue what has left winston in such an intolerant state of other peoples beliefs and could care less what the circumstances maybe.
He has done nothing but insult others like a spoiled brat, and he has been treated as such.
And oh, Hi!

As an Agnostic, I couldn't care less what people believe about their "deity", as long as they do no harm to "non-believers" or advocate harm to others. As long as the government is not imposing religion on me by force of law (putting up a Christmas tree or a Menorah is not "establishing a State Religion" and does not offend me in the least), I have no problem with it. Even when Mormon missionaries or Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door and ask me if I would like to know about their faith, I politely decline, but do not take offense.

1185 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:32:18pm

re: #1182 Mich-again

Its almost as bad as arguing with an engineer!


Engineers can usually see when they are proved wrong, this one, NO!

1186 Spiny Norman  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:32:46pm

re: #1173 taxfreekiller

there got that done and over with,

best guess Winston is not raging so much about the Catholic's as against the mullahs of islam, "projection" once more, that and afraid one of the mad mullahs death squads might track him down.

He seems to have had some back ground up close against mad people in a cult, as islam is, like that, Winston06?

Interesting observation.

1187 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:33:26pm

re: #1180 brookly red

nowhere was fleeing sugested...

#1071

I could be reading more into what he said than is warranted, but with that comment and his general "tone" of religious hatred makes me think flight.

1188 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:34:20pm

re: #1182 Mich-again

Its almost as bad as arguing with an engineer!

The engineer doesn't have fun? Oh DARN! ;)

1189 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:34:25pm

re: #1184 Spiny Norman

As an Agnostic, I couldn't care less what people believe about their "deity", as long as they do no harm to "non-believers" or advocate harm to others. As long as the government is not imposing religion on me by force of law (putting up a Christmas tree or a Menorah is not "establishing a State Religion" and does not offend me in the least), I have no problem with it. Even when Mormon missionaries or Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door and ask me if I would like to know about their faith, I politely decline, but do not take offense.

Thank you, that's the whole point.
Just respect of others as long as they offer the same, your post is irrefutable!

1190 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:34:37pm

Large Hadron Rap

Crank it up!

1191 Racer X  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:35:58pm

oops - wrong thread.

1192 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:36:03pm

re: #1187 FurryOldGuyJeans

#1071

I could be reading more into what he said than is warranted, but with that comment and his general "tone" of religious hatred makes me think flight.

I think you first observation was more to point... but who are we to guess?

1193 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:38:53pm

re: #1184 Spiny Norman

As an Agnostic, I couldn't care less what people believe about their "deity", as long as they do no harm to "non-believers" or advocate harm to others. As long as the government is not imposing religion on me by force of law (putting up a Christmas tree or a Menorah is not "establishing a State Religion" and does not offend me in the least), I have no problem with it. Even when Mormon missionaries or Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door and ask me if I would like to know about their faith, I politely decline, but do not take offense.

Many years ago when I lived in South Seattle the Mormons and the JWs would go door to door all the time. Once one group knocked and wanted to talk to me, I was about to decline when I saw the other group 3 doors down.

I invited the first group in and spent a few minutes pleasantly ignoring them while I waited for the second knock. The second group did, and I invited them in, and spent the next hour watching the cat fight.

Yes, I am a VERY bad man. ;)

1194 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:39:49pm

re: #1189 DEZes

Thank you, that's the whole point.
Just respect of others as long as they offer the same, your post is irrefutable!

Someone recently departed would fling feces as way of refutation.

1195 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:41:19pm

re: #1192 brookly red

I think you first observation was more to point... but who are we to guess?

Realistically it makes not a whit of difference, really.

Just some now pleasant diversion since the stink in the air has started to clear.

1196 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:41:23pm

re: #1171 Iron Fist

she has always shown too much mercy too soon. And the results have been as tragic as they have been predictable.

Israel fights wars not for borderlines or tariffs but for its very existence. The rest of the world that criticizes Israel's tactics either don't understand that or openly want Israel to be eliminated.

1197 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:44:50pm

re: #1196 Mich-again

Israel fights wars not for borderlines or tariffs but for its very existence. The rest of the world that criticizes Israel's tactics either don't understand that or openly want Israel to be eliminated.

Former, to an extent; Latter, absolutely.

1198 brookly red  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:45:07pm

re: #1195 FurryOldGuyJeans

Realistically it makes not a whit of difference, really.

Just some now pleasant diversion since the stink in the air has started to clear.

OK, I am a drinkin, & a smokinin & just sold NYT short fifty cents to open...

1199 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:45:18pm

re: #1194 FurryOldGuyJeans

Someone recently departed would fling feces as way of refutation.

According to the afore mentioned departed, I am a dimwitted moron, deserving of his flung doo.

1200 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:47:11pm

re: #1199 DEZes

I am a moron thrice!

1201 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:47:31pm

Heh, I said flung doo.
For some reason it sounds funny!

1202 [deleted]  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:47:33pm
1203 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:49:07pm

re: #1200 Mich-again

I am a moron thrice!


We both are, but you earned about 30 updings, Winston went the other way, and that's just from me. ;)

1204 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:55:00pm

re: #1199 DEZes

According to the afore mentioned departed, I am a dimwitted moron, deserving of his flung doo.

Consider that absolute high praise, I would. :)

1205 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:56:06pm

re: #1200 Mich-again

I am a moron thrice!

High Praise, Brother, High Praise. ;)

1206 DEZes  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 7:58:46pm

re: #1204 FurryOldGuyJeans

Consider that absolute high praise, I would. :)

Sage advice'
Great now sausage sounds like a good evening snack. :(

1207 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 8:01:36pm

re: #1206 DEZes

Sage advice'
Great now sausage sounds like a good evening snack. :(

Sausage, it ain't just for breakfast anymore.

1208 FurryOldGuyJeans  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 8:03:59pm

re: #1203 DEZes

We both are, but you earned about 30 updings, Winston went the other way, and that's just from me. ;)

Winston really is on his way down, and not just in dings.

I am too much of a computer geek, I keep typing Windows instead of winston.

1209 Lynn B.  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 8:11:50pm

re: #1019 Quilly Mammoth

I get where you are coming from now. The seeming dissonance between your blog and this thread. It's the Persian/Arab "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" meme. You hate the people that made you flee Iran. Therefore you side with those who are in conflict with them...until the nasty fact that they too might be religious comes up. You support Jews as an ethnicity but not as a religion. You supported Bush, but not Dubya the follower of Christ. You call your self a neo-con but despise the neo-cons that are so because of faith.

Wow.

Nailed.

1210 Mich-again  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 8:19:56pm

re: #1198 brookly red

& just sold NYT short fifty cents to open...

If there is a real global depression it may just turn out that the dinosaur media sources with the old fashioned printing presses are viable again. Oh wait. The so-called dinosaur media ditched all that old world crapola.

1211 NY Nana  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 8:39:08pm

re: #285 Ojoe

Bless your relatives...I am just reading down the thread, and feel like crying. I don't recall another thread like this. I wish I could explain what happened to Winston, but I can't. I have never seen even a hint of this until now, and what brought it out? That he left Iran I honestly believe is a big piece of the puzzle. I just wish that he would explain why he went spare like that...there has to be a reason.

I apologize to all of you who were insulted and hurt...I am a proud Jew, and there are atheists and agnostics who posted on this thread without insulting any of us who do believe in G-d.

Many of us have been spit on because of our religion, and I will bet that there were atheists and agnostics who also burned in *itler's (may his name and memory be obliterated) ovens.

What are we coming to when those who profess to be a representative of a religion are as vile as this Bishop? I would hope that no one believed his crap, but fear there are too many who do.....and I could not and would not include even one Lizard in this category.

They would not be posting here for more that a few posts...

My son in law, who we adore, was born a Catholic, but at age 10 became an atheist, yet he is doing everything to ensure that our grandson is brought up as a Jew. The 2-year old goes to a Chabad Gan (nursery school) and our son-in-law participates in various functions. In our country people have the freedom to be whatever religion they want to, or not to be. That is only one of our strengths.

As someone who lost an untold number of family in the very same ovens that this 'Bishop' denies, I wish that the Pope would kick him out on his ass, but it does not look like that will happen, sadly.

/He must be a personal friend of Pat Buchanan's *spit*.

I am so sorry that this brought out another side of someone who I thought was so aware of what a democracy was after getting out of Iran. I still am shocked.

1212 Lynn B.  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 8:57:08pm

Well, maybe this thread will die a natural death at last.

There was actually an interesting and perhaps cathartic discussion that could have been had around the topic. Unfortunately, the thread was hijacked by a disturbed soul with a vicious axe to grind. Some of us could have benefited from a rational discussion of the issue Charles raised so I truly mourn the loss of that opportunity. I also mourn the loss the opportunity to help Winston06 with whatever demons are plaguing him. It seems to me that he must be suffering and could have gotten some support here if he'd only asked instead of attacked.

I want to express my thanks to jill e for introducing an element I hadn't previously considered or understood but believe to be a key piece of this story that isn't being reported and needs to be understood. As a Jew who has immersed herself in Holocaust studies I can relate to the sentiment that this Williamson should be shunned. Personally, I'd like to see him scourged, drawn and quartered. As a student of theology and as an attorney (both teach you to see more than one side of a story) I think I understand the aspirations of the Catholic Church to reclaim lost souls (good luck with that) and wouldn't be so brazen as to try to instruct the Pope in that area.

The Church doesn't ex-communicate serial thieves, rapists, murderers, etc., so I guess the acceptance of an admitted Holocaust denier is consistent with the attempt to rescue the lowest of the low from their folly. I hope in spite of all evidence to the contrary that they succeed with Mr. Williamson.

1213 NY Nana  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 9:48:51pm

re: #773 NY Nana

I have been reading this thread from the first post, as I came onto LGF late, and am just astounded by what I see. I feel guilty that this thread has caused so much rancor. It actually hurts.

To all who have been spit on, I apologize. I still cannot fully comprehend the melt down from Winston.

I am going to read the rest all the way to the end.

I just do not know what to say.

1214 maddogg  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 9:51:39pm

re: #1213 NY Nana

Its not your doing Nana. No need to feel bad:)

1215 NY Nana  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 10:16:34pm

re: #1214 maddogg

I can't get through it all...at least not tonight. I am still sitting here in shock, and I agree with Lynn...it would have made far more sense for Winston to either explain, as this just is not him. Reading his blog, which is in his avatar, is the Winston I thought I knew.

I am far angrier with what this 'Archbishop' has done, and wish that he would be appropriately dealt with. I am not a Catholic, so I really have no right to say what should be his punishment, but I feel that he is being treated in a way that will make him think that he is right, and that the Pope agrees with him...I do not think that Pope John XXIII, may he rest in peace, would for a minute put up with this. He was a true mensch.

I feel badly for Charles, speaking of mensches, as Winston's posts will be seen as OK by those who are so jealous of Charles...

How many bloggers have Charles' courage and integrity? I can think of very few, but they are lizards, and say on their blogs what they say here.

1216 reine.de.tout  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 10:27:16pm

re: #1213 NY Nana

I have been reading this thread from the first post, as I came onto LGF late, and am just astounded by what I see. I feel guilty that this thread has caused so much rancor. It actually hurts.

To all who have been spit on, I apologize. I still cannot fully comprehend the melt down from Winston.

I am going to read the rest all the way to the end.

I just do not know what to say.

Winston spoke for himself only. I hope one day he comes to terms with whatever demons have caused him such deep-seated hatred, which can only end up being destructive to himself.

That this Bishop has been reinstated to the Church is anathema to me and many other Catholics, as it is my understanding that there has been no indication or admission that he was wrong in what he was excommunicated for to begin with.

That he is also a holocaust denier adds to the awfulness of this action. I do not know why the Church would allow this man a platform for these heinous beliefs of his. Even though they are his beliefs and not official doctrine of the Church, his position within the church ensures he will be noticed, just as the Cardinal was noticed a few days ago, and some people will give credence to what he says. The statements of clergy, even when verifiably wrong, have power to influence, and the Church should be ensuring these people have no platform. I just cannot fathom what has happened to those men who should be leading us in our quest to do right.

1217 Throbert McGee  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 11:08:15pm

Late to the party, but here's my widow's mite:

To clarify a point: Williamson has not been reinstated as a Catholic bishop, he’s been “un-excommunicated,” which allows him to receive communion in the Catholic church. And it’s still wrong.

Technically, it is "correct" to un-excommunicate Williamson, since he has apparently repented of the offense for which he was originally excommunicated.

However, if Benedict doesn't turn right around and RE-excommunicate him for being a Holocaust denier, a Troofer, and a general asshole, THAT will be wrong.

The objection to this will be that Holocaust Denial, for example, cannot be grounds for excommunication because the historicity of the Holocaust falls outside the purview of Catholic religious doctrine.

While this is technically true, it is also true that one of the rationales for public excommunication of a Catholic politician who is vocally pro-choice (for example) is that such a person should not be allowed to "mislead the faithful and bring scandal on the Church" by his publicly visible support for abortion.

In contrast, an ordinary lay Catholic who happens to be vocally pro-choice is unlikely to face formal excommunication -- because although Joe Q. Mackerelsnapper is just as sinful as the prominent politician insofar as supporting abortion, as a non-public Catholic, Joe not in a position to "mislead the faithful and bring scandal on the Church."

And if Holocaust Denial by a former bishop doesn't "bring scandal on the Church," I don't know what does.

1218 Throbert McGee  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 11:15:42pm

re: #1177 Cato the Elder

Er, wouldn't the rooster be the cock? Or are you talking about the other thing?

I'm fairly certain that roosters don't have the other kind -- just a cloaca, poor things.

(See my new avatar, by the way.)

1219 Throbert McGee  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 11:20:34pm

re: #1218 Throbert McGee

(See my new avatar, by the way.)

Q. What's the difference between a rooster and Throbert Andrew Sullivan?

A. The rooster says Cock-a-doodle-do! and Sullivan says Any cock'll do!

1220 littleO  Sun, Jan 25, 2009 11:33:40pm

You know, sometimes it's not about you.

The Pope's intention in recinding this excomunication order has nothing to do with Bishop Williamson. The Pope has denounced him. Pope Benedict XV1 motive is to return traditions and faith to a wayward Church. If your not Catholic. Your not family. So butt out!

1221 jill e  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 3:49:48am

re: #1217 Throbert McGee

Late to the party, but here's my widow's mite:


Technically, it is "correct" to un-excommunicate Williamson, since he has apparently repented of the offense for which he was originally excommunicated.

However, if Benedict doesn't turn right around and RE-excommunicate him for being a Holocaust denier, a Troofer, and a general asshole, THAT will be wrong.

The objection to this will be that Holocaust Denial, for example, cannot be grounds for excommunication because the historicity of the Holocaust falls outside the purview of Catholic religious doctrine.

While this is technically true, it is also true that one of the rationales for public excommunication of a Catholic politician who is vocally pro-choice (for example) is that such a person should not be allowed to "mislead the faithful and bring scandal on the Church" by his publicly visible support for abortion.

In contrast, an ordinary lay Catholic who happens to be vocally pro-choice is unlikely to face formal excommunication -- because although Joe Q. Mackerelsnapper is just as sinful as the prominent politician insofar as supporting abortion, as a non-public Catholic, Joe not in a position to "mislead the faithful and bring scandal on the Church."

And if Holocaust Denial by a former bishop doesn't "bring scandal on the Church," I don't know what does.


See #27 WAY above. He was NEVER a Catholic bishop. He was part of a sect who declared themselves bishops. He is merely a wayward Catholic who is being allowed to return to the flock. He is still a wacko, but he never represented the Catholic Church in any way. You don't get excommunicated for holding wacko views.

1222 jill e  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 4:00:28am

re: #1216 reine.de.tout

Winston spoke for himself only. I hope one day he comes to terms with whatever demons have caused him such deep-seated hatred, which can only end up being destructive to himself.

That this Bishop has been reinstated to the Church is anathema to me and many other Catholics, as it is my understanding that there has been no indication or admission that he was wrong in what he was excommunicated for to begin with.

That he is also a holocaust denier adds to the awfulness of this action. I do not know why the Church would allow this man a platform for these heinous beliefs of his. Even though they are his beliefs and not official doctrine of the Church, his position within the church ensures he will be noticed, just as the Cardinal was noticed a few days ago, and some people will give credence to what he says. The statements of clergy, even when verifiably wrong, have power to influence, and the Church should be ensuring these people have no platform. I just cannot fathom what has happened to those men who should be leading us in our quest to do right.


The MEDIA is giving this guy a platform. Once again, see above to #27. He was never a Catholic bishop. He and a group of goofballs declared theirselves bishops. Having repented from that, the Church is letting an ordinary Catholic in so he can receive communion. If Pelosi and Biden are able to receive communion...

By focusing on this one idiot, and forgetting everything else positive between Jews and Catholics, we're playing right into the desires of those who hate both.

1223 rthakidn  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:07:16am

Williamson is clearly nuts. With that said, should all religions bar the mentally challenged from their ranks? He no longer holds the position of teacher, but is allowed to receive the sacrament.

1224 Throbert McGee  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:14:38am

re: #1222 jill e

He was never a Catholic bishop. He and a group of goofballs declared theirselves bishops. Having repented from that, the Church is letting an ordinary Catholic in so he can receive communion.

What part of "misleading the faithful" do you not understand, jill e?

Also, given that his stature as a dissident Catholic priest was sufficient for Lefebvre to bother bestowing the rank of bishop upon him (obviously, not all priests within SSPX merited this recognition), for you to characterize Williamson as an "ordinary Catholic" (a) is really fucking preposterous, and (b) robs the word "ordinary" of any meaning.

1225 Rustler  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:18:21am

re: #9 doppelganglander
He was Excommunicated for allowing himself to be Ordained a Bishop by a splinter group from the church without approval from the vatican.

1226 Rustler  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:22:53am

re: #42 vxbush It's the internet I'm sure their were plenty of conspiracy nuts just they couldn't get their voice to the masses of idiots who would beleive them like is possible in this day and age of the internet.

1227 Throbert McGee  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:37:36am

I wrote above:

Technically, it is "correct" to un-excommunicate Williamson, since he has apparently repented of the offense for which he was originally excommunicated.

But having done some more reading, now I'm not sure that Williamson has in fact recanted any of his attacks against the legitimacy of pretty much all Popes after Vatican II in the early 1960s, and he seems to remain cheerfully and unrepentantly schismatic. He and the other three un-excommunicated "bishops" seem to be benefiting from the Vatican's desire (or perhaps only Benedict's desire) to improve relations with the Society of St. Pius X (although if I understand correctly, all clergy belonging to SSPX remain indefinitely suspended from being able to perform priestly duties, though remaining priests).

In other words, the recent decision to un-excommunicate Williamson and the other three pseudo-bishops of the SSPX strikes me as unilateral appeasement -- the four having done jack shit to merit such a conciliatory gesture.

1228 jester6  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:05:50am

re: #1224 Throbert McGee

What part of "misleading the faithful" do you not understand, jill e?

Also, given that his stature as a dissident Catholic priest was sufficient for Lefebvre to bother bestowing the rank of bishop upon him (obviously, not all priests within SSPX merited this recognition), for you to characterize Williamson as an "ordinary Catholic" (a) is really fucking preposterous, and (b) robs the word "ordinary" of any meaning.

I think jill e is correct.

Williamson is an ordinary Catholic. Once he became a Bishop within SSPX he was Excommunicated. That meant he wasn't a priest, he wasn't a Bishop and he wasn't even Catholic. By allowing him to take communion again the Pope is merely letting him be Catholic again.

There really is no such thing as a dissodent Catholic. You are Catholic or you are not. Become too outspoken and the church pulls your union card.

If you are not Catholic you might not understand how structured it is when compared to other Christian sects. I have only recently begun to realize it as my wife was raised Protestant and I have begun to see things through her eyes.

1229 Janjan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 6:33:23am

Someone else may have mentioned this already, but you are allowed to be a complete sh*the*d and still receive communion in the Catholic Church. This guy is not a real bishop, he has no authority, but he is a regular old sinning Catholic like the rest of us.

Hatred is not an excommunicable (it's all about communion, see?) offense. Would that it were, but it isn't.

Look I think this guy is an a**hole, and I am a Jewish Catholic, so he really ticks me off, but lets keep this in perspective. The Pope isn't saying this guy is "in a position of trust" as one of the commenters said. If he wants to put on his pretty dress and spout crap that's his business, but that is not what this is about.

1230 A.W.  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:04:16am

I don’t know. It seems to me that over the years the power to excommunicate has been pretty badly abused and I am not keep to see them take that out of their gun locker again. I think of the example of when the church used excommunication to try to stop the Scottish revolution against England (think William Wallace and Robert the Bruce).

But then excommunication is not the same as it was back then. If you can’t be a catholic, then okay, you can be a Episcopalian, and it feels almost the same. I have long joked there are no Episcopalians. They are either 1) pissed off Catholics, 2) their family, or 3) compromise churchgoers. I have yet to meet an exception to that rule. And even if you don’t want to be an Episcopalian, there are many other protestant faiths to choose. Its not the end of the world, if it is misused.

I think the only reason to defend excommunication in this case, however, is that his attitudes are so noxious. But you look at how some people in the church have, say, denied communion if your views of abortion are wrong, and even as I have limited sympathy with the goal, I find that a little too heavy handed. And perhaps counter productive. Why not let them in your church, and preach the correct gospel and leave open a path to redemption? Excommunicating a person, etc. seems to shut off dialogue. And while I am not big on dialogue generally, isn’t that what a church is all about? So if this anti-Semitic and downright nutty ex-bishop can sit in the back quietly without disrupting things, why not have him do exactly that?

So no, Charles, I don’t think the Catholic church is clearly wrong on this. Unless I am missing something, like they threw a guy out for less outrageous beliefs or something. But barring any surprising information, this doesn’t seem like a clearly wrongful act.

1231 rumcrook  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:07:31am

re: #1229 Janjan

as a catholic ive allways been tought you have to be right in the heart and mind to recieve communion. it is a privelige, and you have to be part of the community and in good standing with the community(catholic faith)

I will be personal here and say that I take communion so seriously that I have not taken communion in quite some months becuase Ive not gone to confesion.

so since this clown is non repentant , harbors and spreads falsehoods that lead to evil I would say he has been lost to the faith, and undeserving of communion and I am sickened that the pope reinstated him. as a lay person I would say you cant force or bribe someone to get their soul right with god. and you cant bring a wolf back in to the flock when its been spotted as a .wolfthe first time around, but hoping that by doing so it will bring the sheep following the wolf back into the flock.

1232 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:17:15am

re: #1227 Throbert McGee

. . . In other words, the recent decision to un-excommunicate Williamson and the other three pseudo-bishops of the SSPX strikes me as unilateral appeasement -- the four having done jack shit to merit such a conciliatory gesture.

That's my "take" on it as well.

1233 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:28:12am

re: #1222 jill e

The MEDIA is giving this guy a platform. Once again, see above to #27. He was never a Catholic bishop. He and a group of goofballs declared theirselves bishops. Having repented from that, the Church is letting an ordinary Catholic in so he can receive communion. If Pelosi and Biden are able to receive communion...

By focusing on this one idiot, and forgetting everything else positive between Jews and Catholics, we're playing right into the desires of those who hate both.

Pelosi and Biden should not be receiving communion, and I sent a message to the Council of Bishops asking that they refuse communion to Catholic members of Congress whose publicly support abortion, birth control etc.

I see your point that he was never a bishop, but he is indeed in the news and seen as a member of the Catholic clergy and as such, his words have power. I'm not at all convinced that he "repented" of the actions that got him ex-communicated to begin with.

1234 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:41:27am

Bon jour, all! Comment ca va?

(OLT, that was just for you!)

I hope everyone has a better today than yesterday.
Quite a few rumbles here yesterday.
I went through one thread and got so upset I almost decided I needed to get out of Dodge for awhile.

But the thought didn't last.

1235 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:41:45am

re: #1234 reine.de.tout

Bon jour, all! Comment ca va?

(OLT, that was just for you!)

I hope everyone has a better today than yesterday.
Quite a few rumbles here yesterday.
I went through one thread and got so upset I almost decided I needed to get out of Dodge for awhile.

But the thought didn't last.

oops wrong thread.

1236 jill e  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:51:20am

re: #1233 reine.de.tout

Pelosi and Biden should not be receiving communion, and I sent a message to the Council of Bishops asking that they refuse communion to Catholic members of Congress whose publicly support abortion, birth control etc.

I see your point that he was never a bishop, but he is indeed in the news and seen as a member of the Catholic clergy and as such, his words have power. I'm not at all convinced that he "repented" of the actions that got him ex-communicated to begin with.

I really don't like this man at all. But I do not and can not know the state of his soul. A believing Catholic who is excommunicated is essentially spiritually dead. This man is a modern day Prodigal Son. None of us are privvy to what he has recanted. We're all assuming he's the same hate-filled, nonsense spewing person he was before. I think Daisy said it earlier that this is an act of mercy. It's just too bad that this is being used as another opportunity to do the same to the Catholic Church. I'm officially done on this thread! Thanks to anyone who listened!

1237 jill e  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:58:45am

re: #1224 Throbert McGee

What part of "misleading the faithful" do you not understand, jill e?

Also, given that his stature as a dissident Catholic priest was sufficient for Lefebvre to bother bestowing the rank of bishop upon him (obviously, not all priests within SSPX merited this recognition), for you to characterize Williamson as an "ordinary Catholic" (a) is really fucking preposterous, and (b) robs the word "ordinary" of any meaning.

Lefebvre is not part of the Roman Catholic Church. It's that simple...this man was not a Roman Catholic bishop. He was a heretic so he was excommunnicated NOT as a Bishop, but as an ordinary Catholic who was "dressing up" and playing bishop. He does not and never did represent the Roman Catholic Church in any way shape or form.

1238 jill e  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 7:59:10am

Sorry...had to post one more.

1239 janjan  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 8:13:05am

Rumcrook,

You may need to go to confession, but you're not excommunicated! I don't think the Pope was saying Williamson is neccesarily in good standing, and not in need to confession.

1240 rumcrook  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 8:41:25am

re: #1239 janjan

im only a layperson, unsophisticated in more ways than one. but this guy is more than just the crazy uncle with crazy opinions we're allowing to sit at the back of the church.

but if an excomunication is rescinded I think that does imply he is in good standing as a member of the catholic community. (as a member) sure maybe he needs confession, so what? he brings discord disrepute disunity to the body of the church. and ive read no where that he has publicly changed his ways.

il poppas main job as the leader of my flock and that is what the pope is, is to keep us safe and guide us. how does it keep the overall health of the flock safe to allow this guy back?

1241 Flavia  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 8:56:40am

re: #32 kcladderman

On behalf on my parish I apologize to Jews everywhere and especialy to those who were lost and lost loved ones in the Holocaust.

I am so sorry that you were made to feel bad by this. No one with any sense blames the rank & file Catholics - my first thought is that this must pain you all as much as it does anyone else.

1242 NY Nana  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 8:59:08am

re: #1216 reine.de.tout

Reine,

I still do not even pretend to comprehend why Winston said what he said. It was as if there were 2 Winstons..

I hope that today he faces the hurt he caused. I know that I keep repeating that this is not the Winston I know...but it is not.

/At least he lashed out at anyone religious, Christian or Jew, and left no one untouched. Equal opportunity lashing of churches and synagogues.

This became a thread that none of us will soon forget.

One thing re the Bishop that particulary hurt was a remark someone made way up thread: that he is a supporter of one of the most evil Jew-hating books ever published, and forbidden to be sold in a number of countries:

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

[...]Williamson supports conspiracy theories regarding the assassination of President Kennedy and the collapse of the Twin Towers, denying that the latter were terrorist attacks but were instead staged by the U.S. government.[36][3][37]

Williamson has expressed controversial views about Jews. He called Jews "enemies of Christ" and urges their conversion to Catholicism.[38][39][40] He claims that Jews and Freemasons have contributed to the "changes and corruption" in the Catholic Church[41][42][43][38] He has also stated that Jews aim at world dominion[3][44] and believes The Protocols of the Elders of Zion to be authentic.[3][45] Williamson has denied that he is antisemitic, stating that he goes against "adversaries of Our Lord Jesus Christ", that not all Jews are such, and that he also attacks other groups such as Communists and Freemasons.[3][38][39][23]

Williamson has been charged with Holocaust denial.[38][43][46][42][47] He has denied the existence of gas chambers and has claimed that not six million but 200,000 to 300,000 Jews perished in Nazi concentration camps.[13][11] Williamson has also praised Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel.[38][42][43][39][...]

This is what for me, as a Jew, a knife in the heart, and beyond comprehension. How can anyone, especially a Bishop, be condoned by the Pope? And to Catholics? I feel that this is an insult.

There is a lot more to read in what I posted..his CV.

1243 rumcrook  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 9:14:23am

allright, see that (ny nanas post 1242) janjan? this asshat beleives a book written in russia to hurt jews, a book thats a proven falshood the The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, a tool used by antisemites to hurt and kill jews the world over is taken as a fact by this guy.

he is a wolf. it hurts the body of the church (the congregation) to allow him in again and it heightens the level of danger on a spiritual and cosmic level aimed at jews worldwide. the consequences of the pope reinstating this sphincter has implications that could manifest as evil, or giving succor to evil. that is why I think he was better off leaving sleeping dogs (schismatic sects) lie.

1244 ixolite  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 9:14:26am

Does that surprise anyone? Not me. The catholic church has its history with Nazis and antisemitism. At the time of the WWII and after they excommunicated a lot of communists (actually being a communist is an automatic excommunication, they don't have to even spell it out loud), but did they excommunicate any Nazis? Nope. Hitler and Co. were members of the catholic church, no one excommunicated them, not even post mortem. And then of course there are the several Nazis that escaped justice with help from the catholic church. So, no surprise here.

1245 rumcrook  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 9:22:29am

hitler and company were not catholics. that is a falsehood with legs.

hitler believed in himself he was a megalomaniac. and many of the inner circle were neo pagan worshippers of norse gods like wooten.

1246 Joan Not of Arc  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 9:37:55am

To be clear, Williamson was excommunicated because he was consecrated by Archbishop Lefevebre (himself extreme) against the Vatican's wishes. His views, however sick and erroneous, are not the reason why he was excommunicated and definitely not why he was re-introduced to the fold.
The Church has been liberalising since the Sixties and many see that as a problem. Things involving doctrine, form of the Mass or morals don't really need changing. Williamson and the three others see things a lot more stringently.

1247 rumcrook  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 9:38:16am

According to historian Michael Rissmann, young Hitler was influenced in school by Pan-Germanism and began to reject the Church and Catholicism, receiving Confirmation only unwillingly. A boyhood friend reports that after Hitler had left home, he never attended Mass or received the Sacraments.[3] Georg Ritter von Schönerer's writings and the written legacy of his Pan-German Away from Rome! movement, which agitated against the Roman Catholic Church at the end of the 19th century, may have influenced the young Hitler.[4]

Goebbels notes in a diary entry in 1939: "The Führer is deeply religious, but deeply anti-Christian. He regards Christianity as a symptom of decay." Albert Speer reports a similar statement: “You see, it’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn’t we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness?"[18][19

many people are born into a faith that doesnt mean they are a part of it. so while your comments might make you feel good ixolite thier just a useless unhelpful poke in the eye.

1248 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 11:13:57am

re: #1242 NY Nana

. . .

This is what for me, as a Jew, a knife in the heart, and beyond comprehension. How can anyone, especially a Bishop, be condoned by the Pope? And to Catholics? I feel that this is an insult.

There is a lot more to read in what I posted..his CV.

Nana - this action was indeed an insult, not just to you but to good Catholics everywhere, who try very hard to live a life of conscience, to be good people and to do right.

I am appalled by it.

I can tell you that there are a lot of Catholics who are beginning to make their views known (internet is a wonderful thing! We can directly contact the US Conference of Catholic Bishops!) on this issue and many others (for instance, why are Pelosi and Kennedy still being allowed to take communion, particularly Pelosi after her anti-family statements recently?).

I think there are some members of the clergy who live in a sheltered world, where their consciences have been twisted by evil forces.

This action was just one more egregious kick in the face to people who practice the Catholic faith.

My faith, of course, is my relationship with God, not with the clergy, and so I live according to my conscience. But I have to tell you it is very wearying when our clergy does the sorts of things that my conscience tells me are wrong to do, and then to have to explain when I'm asked by people how I can possibly be a Catholic because of the things that priests and the Church heirarchy do that I cannot and WILL NOT even try to explain or justify - I think the world has gone mad. I hate that I've had to even consider the thought that perhaps the forces of evil have taken over . . .

1249 reine.de.tout  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 11:23:46am

re: #1236 jill e

I really don't like this man at all. But I do not and can not know the state of his soul. A believing Catholic who is excommunicated is essentially spiritually dead. This man is a modern day Prodigal Son. None of us are privvy to what he has recanted. We're all assuming he's the same hate-filled, nonsense spewing person he was before. I think Daisy said it earlier that this is an act of mercy. It's just too bad that this is being used as another opportunity to do the same to the Catholic Church. I'm officially done on this thread! Thanks to anyone who listened!

Jill -
I think I read that you converted to Catholicism after 9/11.
I was born and raised Catholic, and so perhaps if I were newer to it all, I might have the gentler view that you have.

We do not know what is in this man's soul, that is true.

What we do have is our observations about his character, from what he says and espouses.

When I was a teen, my mom would not allow me to go to Elvis movies nor to the Annette "Beach Blanket" movies.

I had a friend, however, whose mom allowed her to go to those movies, as long as she went to confession afterwards.

I proposed this to my mom once, who was smart enough to let me know right away that confession does not exist to allow us to go about sinning freely, to have the sins blessed away, and then to continue committing the same sins.

I see that as what has happened with this fellow. His "sin" was so egregious that he was excommunicated. His words are still hate-filled nonsense, and that does not give me the feeling that he has reflected on and repudiated his sins. In fact, he seems quite content to continue on, in the belief that his sins can be "blessed away" after the fact, and the reinstatement seems to me to have given him reason to believe that.

So I feel free to speak out against his reinstatement.

But you are correct, I do not know what is in his soul. And so I will hope that I am wrong in my assessment that he should not have been reinstated.

1250 rumcrook  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 11:36:36am

re: #1249 reine.de.tout

none of us know what is "in his soul" but if deeds, actions, and proffessed beleifs are an indication it can be surmised bad things are there.

I dont know what was in stalins soul, but from everything I know about him I can say with confidence it was a dark and evil soul.

1251 Salamantis  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 2:04:40pm

re: #1247 rumcrook

[Link: www.skeptically.org...]

I have often reflected, wistfully, on how much happier modern history might have been had Hitler been brought up as an atheist, an agnostic, or, at least, a Unitarian. Born and bred a Catholic, he grew up in a religion and in a culture that was anti-semitic, and in persecuting Jews, he repeatedly proclaimed he was doing the "Lord's work."

You will find it in Mein Kampf.- "Therefore, I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews, I am doing the Lord's work."

Hitler said it again at a Nazi Christmas celebration in 1926: "Christ was the greatest early fighter in the battle against the world enemy, the Jews . . . The work that Christ started but could not finish, I--Adolf Hitler--will conclude."

In a Reichstag speech in 1938, Hitler again echoed the religious origins of his crusade. "I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews, I am fighting for the Lord's work. "

Hitler regarded himself as a Catholic until he died. "I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so," he told Gerhard Engel, one of his generals, in 1941.

There was really no reason for Hitler to doubt his good standing as a Catholic. The Catholic press In Germany was eager to curry his favor, and the princes of the Catholic Church never asked for his excommunication. Religions encourage their followers to hold authority in unquestioning respect; this is what makes devout religionists such wonderful dupes for dictators.

When Hitler narrowly escaped assassination in Munich in November, 1939, he gave the credit to providence. "Now I am completely content," he exclaimed. "The fact that I left the Burgerbraukeller earlier than usual is a corroboration of Providence's intention to let me reach my goal." Catholic newspapers throughout the Reich echoed this, declaring that it was a miraculous working of providence that had protected their Fuhrer. One cardinal, Michael Faulhaber, sent a telegram instructing that a Te Deum be sung in the cathedral of Munich, "to thank Divine Providence in the name of the archdiocese for the Fuhrer's fortunate escape. " The Pope also sent his special personal congratulations!

Later the Pope was to publicly describe Hitler's opposition to Russia as a "high-minded gallantry in defense of the foundation of Christian culture. "Several German bishops openly supported Hitler's invasion of Russia, calling it a "European crusade." One bishop exhorted all Catholics to fight for "a victory that will allow Europe to breathe freely again and will promise all nations a new future. "

Biographer John Toland wrote of Hitler's religion: "Still a member in good standing of the Church of Rome despite detestation of its hierarchy, he carried within him its teaching that the Jew was the killer of god. The extermination, therefore, could be done without a twinge of conscience since he was merely acting as the avenging hand of god - so long as it was done impersonally, without cruelty. Himmler was pleased to murder with mercy. He ordered technical experts to devise gas chambers which would eliminate masses of Jews efficiently and 'humanely', then crowded the victims into boxcars and sent them east to stay in ghettos until the killing centers in Poland were completed."

1252 callahan23  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 3:56:17pm

re: #786 NY Nana

Thanks a lot.

1253 jkw  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 5:44:49pm

re: #689 bloodnok

Can anyone recommend a good Richard Dreyfus film for me to watch? Are there any to avoid? I hope he hasn't made any about youth orchestras.

I've always been (probably irrationally) fond of _Moon Over Parador_.

1254 notutopia  Mon, Jan 26, 2009 8:29:09pm

1/26/09, Pope responds in the Vatican newspaper L'Osservatore Romano.
Vatican: Comments by Holocaust denier unacceptable

[Link: www.google.com...]

1255 ixolite  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:50:24am

re: #1247 rumcrook

many people are born into a faith that doesnt mean they are a part of it. so while your comments might make you feel good ixolite thier just a useless unhelpful poke in the eye.


Sheesh. This is not about Hitler, but about the actions or non-actions of the catholic church and their hypocrisy. Fact is that he was a card carrying Catholic (or whatever you call it) and the catholic church to this day did not excommunicate him or other Nazis which happened to be catholics. OTOH every communist is automatically excommunicated. Not so with Nazis. Go figure!

1256 rumcrook  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:48:37am

yes your right its not about hitler. you brought him up.

second being a catholic is not being in a political party hitler grew up in a catholic household but after his teen years never went to mass or took communion. this is not a catholic. I stand by what I said. the man was a megalomaniac who used whatever he could to advance his evil agenda.

to say he was a catholic isan extrapolation of the facts , is thier a kernal of truth yes, but you cant build it into the whole "he was a catholic" with the intent to show he was a catholic in good standing a member of the community in touch and connected to the body of the faith. its not true.

you and others are driving that for one reason, for the implication that hitler was a church going part of the faith who with his other catholic minions and the support of his parish and the pope decided to murder millions.

has the church been morally culpable for bad things in history yes. but the church was not another wing of the nazi party, thats your underlying theme.

1257 pie22  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 9:52:45am

I am sorry to bust up the Catholic bash thread with a few facts that have been clearly overlooked concerning this issue, but I know lizards are sticklers for facts so here goes. These men were NEVER Bishops in the Catholic Church to begin with. The Society of St. Pius x (SSPX) was founded by Archbishop Lefebvre, in 1971, a retired missionary who served in Africa, in order to perpetuate the Tridentine Mass. He did not reject Vatican2, or even the reform of the mass (he voted for the council document that called for it), but he did reject the current rites, promulgated in 1969, though he did not argue they were invalid. HE started a seminary in Econe, Switzerland, to train priests, which HE then ordained. As a Bishop, who was NOT an Ordinary (bishop of the diocese) at the time, HE was NOT permitted to ordain priest's. Pope Paul VI SUSPENDED his priestly faculties, AND THOSE he ordained, for this defiance of the church law. Time going on, the movement rejected the ecumenism and the statements of the council on religious liberty, as contrary to tradition. Within the traditionalist movement, which is certainly dominated by the Society, other branches developed. For example, the SSPX uses the 1962 missal, which includes changes made by John XXIII. Some in the movement reject any changes, and thus will use only the missal from Pius XI I's time. Others argue that the See Of Peter is vacant since Pius XII (sedevacanists). Others have elected their own Popes (there were at least 3 anti-popes). And so the fracturing natural to schismatics has its way. In 1989, Archbishop Lefebvre, fearing he may die and leave no one to Ordain priests for the SSPX, sought an agreement with the Holy See for the lawful continuation of the Society. After first reaching one, with Cardinal Ratzinger, acting for the Pope, Lefebvre, reversed himself, and in an act which was ipso facto Schismatic ORDAINED 4 Bishops WITHOUT papal mandate and incurred an automatic and immediate ex-communication, confirmed a few DAYS later by Decree of the Holy See. These men are not ex-communicated Bishop's, they were NEVER recognized as Bishops by the Vatican. I think that is an extremely important point. As far as the teachings of the Catholic Church are concerned, this man is the perfect example of why he should receive the Holy Communion. He must learn to rid his heart of anger and hatred and in the eyes of the Pope, this is an extremely important way to be made aware of his hateful opinions and lack of factual knowledge. It would be good to remember, that every religion has it's own crazy fanatics, I was tempted to quote hate filled, vile statements from leaders of all religions on this thread. I will refrain. Thanks for your time Lizards.

1258 jill e  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 11:25:37am

#1257 Pie 22

Thank you and AMEN! I tried to explain this several times on the thread, but never so susinctly and thoroughly! Additional info and an interesting take on Williamson from Aliens in this World blog:

It’s been noticed before that every time SSPX negotiations with the Vatican are going well, Williamson tends to send out a press release saying something outrageous, ensuring that he’ll be attacked, arguments will break out, and the SSPX will back out of negotiations. Many wonder whether this is him being crazy or him being deliberately obstructive, to avoid losing power. Would it be fair, to allow him to continue holding the SSPX membership hostage to his mouth?

So for the good of souls and minds, and for the sake of justice, the Pope is trying once more to call the SSPX back. That’s the point of the remission of excommunications. It doesn’t mean the SSPX have won; but also, it doesn’t mean that they have lost and must grovel. There’s no win or lose here, especially when the Pope has always largely agreed with you. It just means that the bishops of the SSPX aren’t excommunicated anymore, and thus are personally better off. The hope and understanding is that this will make for a good start for negotiations.

However, it is important to point out what this doesn’t do. It doesn’t legitimize the SSPX bishops as normal Catholic bishops in good standing or give them a normal place in the hierarchy. It doesn’t even say that they aren’t sinning by doing what they do. It certainly doesn’t say, “Oh, yeah, we’re good with all of Williamson’s statements, and we agree with him that it’s Catholic doctrine that women shouldn’t wear pants.” (Another Williamson comment.) Heck, no! (Especially since that one pope told the Bulgars that he didn’t care a bit whether or not women wore pants instead of skirts.)

What it does say is, “The door is open, and the ball is in your court. Respond.”

1259 jill e  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 11:26:44am

PIMP

succinctly

1260 fatdaddy  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 11:31:19am

pie22

thank you for that post

1261 DhimmiMoore  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 11:52:57am

Charles -

Since your incorrect headline implied anti-semitism on the part of the Catholic church, are you going to post today that Pope Benedict has thoroughly condemned this "bishop's" views? Link here: [Link: www.philly.com...]

And for accuracy, you should really change the headline for this post because it is entirely incorrect. It's no different than proclaimg a headline of "Israel Nukes Gaza!" and then buried in the story: "UPDATE: No they didn't."

1262 Charles Johnson  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 12:01:35pm

re: #1261 DhimmiMoore

Charles -

Since your incorrect headline implied anti-semitism on the part of the Catholic church, are you going to post today that Pope Benedict has thoroughly condemned this "bishop's" views? Link here: [Link: www.philly.com...]

And for accuracy, you should really change the headline for this post because it is entirely incorrect. It's no different than proclaimg a headline of "Israel Nukes Gaza!" and then buried in the story: "UPDATE: No they didn't."

There is nothing incorrect about the headline on this post.

1263 jill e  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 2:13:23pm

The SSPX is now telling Williamson to zip it...

Statement of His Excellency Bernard Fellay, Superior of the Fraternity of St. Pius X

We have become aware of an interview released by Bishop Richard Williamson, a member of our Fraternity of St. Pius X, to Swedish television. In this interview, he expressed himself on historical questions, and in particular on the question of the genocide against the Jews carried out by the Nazis.

It’s clear that a Catholic bishop cannot speak with ecclesiastical authority except on questions that regard faith and morals. Our Fraternity does not claim any authority on other matters. Its mission is the propagation and restoration of authentic Catholic doctrine, expressed in the dogmas of the faith. I

It’s with great sadness that we recognize the extent to which the violation of this mandate has done damage to our mission. The affirmations of Bishop Williamson do not reflect in any sense the position of our Fraternity. For this reason I have prohibited him, pending any new orders, from taking any public positions on political or historical questions.

We ask the forgiveness of the Supreme Pontiff, and of all people of good will [emphasis mine], for the dramatic consequences of this act. Because we recognize how ill-advised these declarations were, we can only look with sadness at the way in which they have directly struck our Fraternity, discrediting its mission.

This is something we cannot accept, and we declare that we will continue to preach Catholic doctrine and to administer the sacraments [note: without permission of the Holy See] of grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Menzingen, January 27, 2009


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