Holocaust-Denying Bishop Gagged

Religion • Views: 4,076

The Holocaust-denying British bishop recently “un-excommunicated” by Pope Benedict is now under a gag order from his superiors in the Fraternity of St. Pius X.

Statement of His Excellency Bernard Fellay, Superior of the Fraternity of St. Pius X

We have become aware of an interview released by Bishop Richard Williamson, a member of our Fraternity of St. Pius X, to Swedish television. In this interview, he expressed himself on historical questions, and in particular on the question of the genocide against the Jews carried out by the Nazis.

It’s clear that a Catholic bishop cannot speak with ecclesiastical authority except on questions that regard faith and morals. Our Fraternity does not claim any authority on other matters. Its mission is the propagation and restoration of authentic Catholic doctrine, expressed in the dogmas of the faith. It’s for this reason that we are known, accepted and respected in the entire world.

It’s with great sadness that we recognize the extent to which the violation of this mandate has done damage to our mission. The affirmations of Bishop Williamson do not reflect in any sense the position of our Fraternity. For this reason I have prohibited him, pending any new orders, from taking any public positions on political or historical questions.

And the Vatican has come out with a statement denouncing Bishop Williamson: Vatican says comments by Holocaust denier Richard Williamson ‘unacceptable’.

VATICAN CITY - The Vatican said Monday that comments by a recently rehabilitated bishop that no Jews were gassed during the Holocaust were “unacceptable” and violate church teaching.

In a front-page article, the Vatican newspaper L’Osservatore Romano reaffirmed that Pope Benedict deplored all forms of anti-Semitism and that all Roman Catholics must do the same.

The article was issued amid an outcry from Jewish groups that Benedict last week lifted the excommunication of a traditionalist bishop, Richard Williamson, who has denied that six million Jews were murdered during the Second World War.

The Vatican has stressed that removing the excommunication by no means implied the Vatican shared Williamson’s views.

Williamson and three other bishops were excommunicated 20 years ago after they were consecrated by the late ultraconservative archbishop Marcel Lefebvre without papal consent - a move the Vatican said at the time was an act of schism.

Benedict has made clear from the start of his pontificate that he wanted to reconcile with Lefebvre’s traditionalist Society of St. Pius X and bring it back into the Vatican’s fold.

Lefebvre had rebelled against the Vatican and founded the society in 1969. He was bitterly opposed to the teachings of the Second Vatican Council, the 1962-65 meetings that brought liberal reforms to the church.

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490 comments
1 BignJames  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:38:20pm

Too late.

2 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:39:09pm

Closing the barn door after the horse gets out.

Simply brilliant, NOT!

3 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:39:10pm
4 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:39:39pm

Shut thou the heck up!

5 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:40:03pm
6 Soona'  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:40:08pm

re: #1 BignJames

Too late.

I

I don’t know. Better late than never, I guess.

7 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:41:25pm
8 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:41:33pm

I’m very relieved that this clarification was made, and even happier that this dimwit has been “gagged.”

9 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:41:43pm

re: #3 MandyManners

Don’t they have a monastery where they could send him to contemplate the error of his ways?

Maybe they could build one right near a concentration camp. I’m serious. For penance he could do service at the concentration camp until it sinks in.

“This really happened. Innocent human beings died here.” Repeat until you get it.

10 ratherdashing  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:41:45pm

Churches aren’t the fastest moving bodies of governance. I think, all in all, this is a swift response to his recent interview.

11 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:42:39pm

re: #3 MandyManners

Don’t they have a monastery where they could send him to contemplate the error of his ways?

There is always the Inquisition. Nobody expects the Inquisition.

Williamson sure is giving Benedict XVI a good reason to re-excommunicate him, for good this time.

Maybe this could be used as an object lesson that Antisemitism is unacceptable, no matter who you are.

12 avanti  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:43:15pm

Unacceptable comments ? Bust him down to choir boy.

13 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:43:26pm

re: #3 MandyManners

Don’t they have a monastery where they could send him to contemplate the error of his ways?

He should be kick out of the church, the priesthood, the whole shooting match. Period.

Monastery, that’s like a country club for…

14 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:43:32pm
15 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:43:35pm

re: #7 MandyManners

Is the Society of St. Pius X anything like Opus Dei?

No.

16 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:43:40pm

re: #9 EmmmieG

Maybe they could build one right near a concentration camp. I’m serious. For penance he could do service at the concentration camp until it sinks in.

“This really happened. Innocent human beings died here.” Repeat until you get it.

And watch this.

17 vagabond trader  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:44:18pm

re: #11 FurryOldGuyJeans

Unfortunately, it is quite acceptable to many.

18 Wild Knight  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:44:41pm

Good for you, Holy Father. Anti-Semitism is unconscionable and Holocaust Denial is the face incarnate of this evil.

19 Soona'  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:44:54pm

See y’all. I’m out.

20 DisturbedEma  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:44:59pm

I called this one…with the election of this Pope who did not have the moral stamina to refuse to join the Jung as a kid…simply EVERYONE joined shitler’s youth…no big deal, nothing to see here…

EXCEPT the return of the call to convert Jews, the call for boycotts on Jewish stores in Italy…and this…

21 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:45:34pm
22 Bob Dillon  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:45:34pm

re: #10 ratherdashing

Churches aren’t the fastest moving bodies of governance. I think, all in all, this is a swift response to his recent interview.

Surprisingly so! Simply amazing.

23 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:46:24pm
24 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:46:49pm
25 KingKenrod  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:46:58pm

At the root of all Holocaust denial is an intense hatred of Jews. There’s no other explanation.

26 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:47:54pm
27 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:48:18pm

re: #9 EmmmieG

Maybe they could build one right near a concentration camp. I’m serious. For penance he could do service at the concentration camp until it sinks in.

“This really happened. Innocent human beings died here.” Repeat until you get it.

That might backfire. Like that Imam from this morning’s thread who watches Holocaust videos like pr0n.

28 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:48:24pm

re: #24 MandyManners

I was thinking of a place high up in the Italian Alps with itsy-bitsy rooms and shitty food.

No, the part that would get me is the part where they have to wake up in the middle of the night to pray. It would be like having a newborn forever, but without the nice comfy bed and the adorable newborn to make it worthwhile.

29 Wild Knight  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:48:28pm

re: #21 MandyManners

I wish they’d go after the creep who compared Gaza to a concentration camp.

So do I, fervently.

30 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:48:30pm
And the Vatican has come out with a statement denouncing Bishop Williamson

Correct me if I’m mistaken, but I believe Williamson is no longer a Bishop, or even a priest for that matter.

His “un-excommunication”, as far as I know, only allows him to receive communion.

He’s still a complete bastard though, and deserves to be ridiculed.

31 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:48:31pm
32 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:48:38pm

re: #18 Wild Knight

Good for you, Holy Father. Anti-Semitism is unconscionable and Holocaust Denial is the face incarnate of this evil.

What did the holy father do, except to say we don’t agree with him. That’s it, they still reinstated him to receive holy communion, to be accepted at the altar as a congregant. Big whoop!

33 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:49:08pm

re: #24 MandyManners

I was thinking of a place high up in the Italian Alps with itsy-bitsy rooms and shitty food.

Sounds like something I would like.

34 Wild Knight  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:49:15pm

re: #26 MandyManners

Ratzinger’s called for boycotts of Italian stores owned by Jews?

Never heard of that one - and I live beneath the Italian boot, so to speak.

35 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:49:22pm

Great, now when will they gag Pat Pukecannon?

36 pie22  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:49:38pm

Thank you for the post Charles.

37 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:50:24pm
38 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:50:26pm

The problem with St. Pius is as much with its founder, Lefebvre, as it is with Williamson.
Wiki on Lefebvre:
Political positions espoused by Archbishop Lefebvre included the following:

Condemnation of the 1789 French Revolution, and what he called its “Masonic and anti-Catholic principles”.[1] His protégé, Bishop Richard Williamson, has reported that, as a supporter of absolutist monarchy, he spoke approvingly of the stance of Henri, Comte de Chambord during the constitutional wrangles in the early days of the French Third Republic.
Support for the “Catholic order” of the authoritarian French Vichy régime (1940-1944), which collaborated with Nazi Germany and whose leader, Philippe Pétain, was later sentenced to death as a traitor.[62][63]
Support for other fascist or authoritarian governments. In 1976, Lefebvre praised the regimes of Jorge Videla in Argentina and Augusto Pinochet in Chile, and in 1985 he spoke approvingly of the governments of Francisco Franco of Spain and Antonio Salazar of Portugal, noting that their neutrality in World War II had spared their peoples, including their Jewish populations, the suffering of the War.
Support for the French far-right leader Jean-Marie le Pen. In 1985, the French periodical Présent quoted Lefebvre as endorsing Le Pen, on the grounds that he was the only leading French politician who was clearly opposed to abortion.
Opposition to Muslim immigration into Europe. In 1990, Lefebvre was convicted in a French court and sentenced to pay a fine of 5,000 francs when he stated in this connection that “it is your wives, your daughters, your children who will be kidnapped and dragged off to a certain kind of places as they exist in Casablanca”.[64]
Lefebvre’s supporters would maintain that Lefebvre’s political outlook was consonant with a strand of thought within the Catholic Church that was supportive of authoritarian political regimes and those who, in the words of Pope St. Pius X to the mother of Action Francaise leader Charles Maurras, support “hierarchy, order, and obedience”. On the other hand, the Catholic Church does not endorse any particular political program or form of government, and the fact that Lefebvre was raised and educated in a particular, highly-charged political atmosphere in early twentieth-century France cannot be ignored when evaluating his outlook.

39 DisturbedEma  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:50:50pm

re: #26 MandyManners

Ratzinger’s called for boycotts of Italian stores owned by Jews?

No one of the cardinals… I was remarking on the roll back of several years of work by John Paul…and actually the Catholic/Jewish interfaith group in Italy sort of disbanded over the issue of the revival of the ‘convert Jews” prayer added to the litergy…

I’m just saying, I worried about this kind of reversal from the shitler’s youth affliated pope…John the 23rd he anit…

40 Wild Knight  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:51:02pm

re: #30 Ringo the Gringo

Ontologically, both his episcopal and presbyterial ministeries are valid. Canonically, he cannot exercise them. In terms of Canon Law, his status in the Church is that of layman now.

41 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:51:38pm

re: #7 MandyManners

Is the Society of St. Pius X anything like Opus Dei?

Society of St. Pius X, Opus Dei (wiki links).

Notice that the Society of St. Pius X was founded by the same schismatic Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre that consecrated Bishop Williamson, the act that led to the latter’s excommunication. Sounds like some people want to bring back the age of Anti-Popes.

42 Dustyvet  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:51:50pm

At last a use for my “ShamWOW”

43 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:52:21pm

Ratzinger is trying to heal a rift in the church that he played a part in prior to becoming Pope.

44 Dr. Shalit  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:52:37pm

The OLD BOY IS EMBARRASSING, eh wot?

-S-

45 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:53:20pm

re: #40 Wild Knight

Ontologically, both his episcopal and presbyterial ministeries are valid. Canonically, he cannot exercise them. In terms of Canon Law, his status in the Church is that of layman now.

Thanks.

I think that’s what I was trying to say.

46 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:53:26pm

re: #8 goddessoftheclassroom

I’m very relieved that this clarification was made, and even happier that this dimwit has been “gagged.”

He needs to be encouraged to go become a hermit penitent for a long, LONG time.

47 Wild Knight  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:53:27pm

re: #39 DisturbedEma

No one of the cardinals… I was remarking on the roll back of several years of work by John Paul…and actually the Catholic/Jewish interfaith group in Italy sort of disbanded over the issue of the revival of the ‘convert Jews” prayer added to the litergy…

I’m just saying, I worried about this kind of reversal from the shitler’s youth affliated pope…John the 23rd he anit…

Who’s the guy? I never heard of this call for the boycotting of Jewish Stores. I’ve got friends in the Inquisition and I’ll raise the issue with them if you give me a source.

48 Dustyvet  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:54:18pm

re: #46 FurryOldGuyJeans

He needs to be encouraged to go become a hermit penitent for a long, LONG time.

In a place where the inmates make little rocks, out of big ricks…:)

49 spirochete  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:54:43pm

Maybe they should go to Avignon for a spell.

50 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:55:02pm

Barack Obama is the most famous living person in the history of the world.

vanityfair.com

Not to take anything away from the holocaust but……

51 Arkay  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:55:03pm

If I may quote my favorite philosopher (ahem, me):

“The fact that the particular bishop involved is a farking icehole with spit for brains and a bad habit of denying objective reality in terms of recent history is immaterial to the decision of His Holiness, The Vicar of Christ. Benedict made this decision for reasons having nothing to do with what Reuters would do with the story, and certainly nothing to do with this guy’s obiter dicta on the Holocaust, 9/11, bimetallism, whether Don’t Fear the Reaper needs more cowbell, whether we landed on the moon or not, or upon any other personal insanity.” (Post 724 of the last thread on this subject.)

OTOH, “the particular bishop involved is” — indeed — “a farking icehole with spit for brains and a bad habit of denying objective reality in terms of recent history” and I’m delighted that they told him to STFU.

52 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:55:24pm

re: #49 spirochete

Maybe they should go to Avignon for a spell.

Er, the holy seat is not in Avignon anymore?
/

53 CIA Reject  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:56:07pm

re: #51 Arkay

Well said!

54 spirochete  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:56:10pm

re: #52 Walter L. Newton

Er, the holy seat is not in Avignon anymore?
/

I think The Razor took it with him to Munich.

55 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:56:23pm
56 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:56:37pm

re: #54 spirochete

I think The Razor took it with him to Munich.

What?

57 spirochete  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:57:20pm

re: #56 Walter L. Newton

What?

Ockham fled Avignon and settled in Munich under the Holy Roman Emporer’s protection.

58 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:57:55pm

New Bill Asks For Cameraphones To Go Clickety Clack
By Priya Ganapati January 26, 2009 %P% 5:12:59 PMCategories: Phones

blog.wired.com

makes sense to me.

59 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:58:06pm
60 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:58:22pm

re: #55 buzzsawmonkey

Other than the fact that he is dead?

61 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:58:45pm

re: #57 spirochete

Ockham fled Avignon and settled in Munich under the Holy Roman Emporer’s protection.

That makes a little more sense to me. I’ve never heard of Ockham being referred to like he was some character in a Marvel comic.

62 DisturbedEma  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:59:09pm

re: #34 Wild Knight

Never heard of that one - and I live beneath the Italian boot, so to speak.

No it was in response to Gaza I believe, and it was eventually “repudiated”

63 Dustyvet  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 4:59:49pm

re: #58 Nevergiveup

New Bill Asks For Cameraphones To Go Clickety Clack
By Priya Ganapati January 26, 2009 %P% 5:12:59 PMCategories: Phones

[Link: blog.wired.com…]

makes sense to me.

Gee, maybe the author of the bill should buy an HO train set if he wants clicekity clack

64 Sharmuta  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:00:04pm

They should reinstate the excommunication.

65 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:00:13pm
66 spirochete  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:00:17pm

re: #59 buzzsawmonkey


Et les cardnials, il font comme quoi?

67 gclaghorn  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:00:40pm

Groan. Why was this loser “un-excommunicated” in the first place?

68 Age Of Freedom  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:01:07pm

Good.
Chancellor Palpatine was prevented from becoming an emperor and an open sith lord. My the schwartz be with us all.

69 spirochete  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:01:08pm

re: #61 Walter L. Newton

Ockham the Razor. He slices, he dices.

70 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:01:21pm
71 DisturbedEma  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:01:34pm

re: #47 Wild Knight

Who’s the guy? I never heard of this call for the boycotting of Jewish Stores. I’ve got friends in the Inquisition and I’ll raise the issue with them if you give me a source.

Looking for it- it was burined in an article about Gaza…flickered really quickly and now I cannot find it…it was a bishop/cardinal type, and it made the interfaith rabbi in Italy, along with the prayer issue, declare there was a need to reassess before the dialogue between Jews and Catholics in Italy could begin again…let me see what I can find…

72 Age Of Freedom  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:01:44pm

re: #68 Age Of Freedom

Good.
Chancellor Palpatine was prevented from becoming an emperor and an open sith lord. May the schwartz be with us all.

Fixed

73 spirochete  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:01:58pm

re: #70 buzzsawmonkey

Je ne sais pas.

ALors, je m’en fou de ca.

74 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:02:06pm

re: #1 BignJames

Too late.

I agree.
But when I said the same thing earlier, somebody pointed out that they could hardly have taken action BEFORE the idiot spoke.

However, he was known to hold those views, and proper action should have been taken before “… the violation of this mandate has done damage to our mission”.

75 mean Gene  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:02:41pm

I am so glad he’s been muzzled.
In a few Christian Churches there are degrees of admonishments.
One equals total excommunication.
But there is one where the person steps down from all responsibility over the ”flock” and sits quietly in the congregation so as to listen and learn anew what he apparently forgot.
I didn’ know Catholics had this, too.

76 Wild Knight  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:02:42pm

re: #71 DisturbedEma

Looking for it- it was burined in an article about Gaza…flickered really quickly and now I cannot find it…it was a bishop/cardinal type, and it made the interfaith rabbi in Italy, along with the prayer issue, declare there was a need to reassess before the dialogue between Jews and Catholics in Italy could begin again…let me see what I can find…

Thanks.

77 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:02:45pm
78 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:02:45pm

re: #67 gclaghorn

Groan. Why was this loser “un-excommunicated” in the first place?

See above.

His being allowed to receive communion doesn’t validate his hatefulness, and given the Pope’s statement regarding the unacceptability of anti-Semitism, Williamson may be excommunicated again if he doesn’t renounce his Holocaust denial.

79 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:02:45pm

re: #67 gclaghorn

Ratzinger played a part in the original split, the reason for the excommunication was the wrong one. Lefebvre was excommunicable, the bishops he ordained weren’t to my understanding of the issue.

80 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:02:47pm

re: #64 Sharmuta

They should reinstate the excommunication.

Honestly, you’re right. Why would you want this person in your commune when you know exactly how he feels. A church does not have to open it’s doors to anyone, if it doesn’t want them there.

Just giving him permission to “exist” in the congregation is offensive.

81 opinionated  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:03:16pm

File under: Nothing against Jews, we just don’t like Israel

A northern Swedish city has decided to cancel a planned Holocaust Memorial Day torchlight procession due to the recent IDF offensive in Gaza, it was reported Tuesday.

jpost.com

82 FloridaAnole  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:03:53pm

More good news (not). This on top of Obama’s accommodationist signals to the Muslim world. Is it just me, or is the world spinning off into complete insanity? Tell me I’m just a depressive, or something. Please.

83 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:03:58pm
84 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:04:26pm

re: #70 buzzsawmonkey

Je ne sais pas.

Actually, I think he now does the Safety Dance, as in “Keep the safety on on your mouth, buddy.”

85 spirochete  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:04:34pm

re: #77 buzzsawmonkey

Moi, je parle le francais plus execrable.

Et moi, pas de tout!

86 bellamags  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:04:38pm

I would love to slap Marc Lamont Hill.

87 mean Gene  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:05:00pm

But why is the guy still being referred to as a ”bishop?”
A gag rule, it would seem, should have him removed from all authority over the laity, no?

88 LEGION  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:05:45pm

On Bill O’Reilly now- the moonbats are pushing to bring President Bush to trial for war-crimes-?! It takes a liberal to say keeping this nation safe, freeing 53 million people from tryanny- is a war crime. Damn all liberals!

89 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:05:51pm

re: #83 buzzsawmonkey

Tough on that whole “sanctuary” thing.

Poor Quasimodo. Poor Esmeralda.


You obviously didn’t see the Disney version. Happiness all around. Then they made Hunchback II, and Quasimodo got his own girlfriend.

90 Wild Knight  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:06:08pm

re: #79 Thanos

Ratzinger played a part in the original split, the reason for the excommunication was the wrong one. Lefebvre was excommunicable, the bishops he ordained weren’t to my understanding of the issue.

They were. By accepting ordination not sanctioned by the valid Vatican authorities, they put themselves automatically into a position of schism. Hence the excommunication.

91 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:06:18pm
92 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:06:19pm

re: #82 FloridaAnole

More good news (not). This on top of Obama’s accommodationist signals to the Muslim world. Is it just me, or is the world spinning off into complete insanity? Tell me I’m just a depressive, or something. Please.

Ok, I have problems with some of the points he made in the interview, but, he also made points that really surprised me, such as the fact that Israel will always be an ally. So, I guess we have to wait to see if he keeps those promises.

He certainly made pro-Israel points that Jimmy Carter would never have considered making.

93 Catttt  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:06:31pm

Speaking as a branch grafted on the root, I’ve always deeply honored that root, and I was taught to do so in a Catholic household. I would walk out on any priest who did anything less.

From Romans 11:

…[I]if the root is holy, so are the branches .If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you.

I am glad - but not surprised - at the Church’s reaction (obviously, this guy got grandfathered in with the schism repair operation).

94 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:06:40pm

re: #77 buzzsawmonkey

Moi, je parle le francais plus execrable.

I bet you don’t.

95 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:06:42pm

re: #88 LEGION

On Bill O’Reilly now- the moonbats are pushing to bring President Bush to trial for war-crimes-?! It takes a liberal to say keeping this nation safe, freeing 53 million people from tryanny- is a war crime. Damn all liberals!

If Obama had ANY class, he’d tell them to shut the fuck up. But I said if he had any class?

96 gclaghorn  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:06:44pm

re: #79 Thanos

Ratzinger played a part in the original split, the reason for the excommunication was the wrong one. Lefebvre was excommunicable, the bishops he ordained weren’t to my understanding of the issue.

So there was no reason for the original excommunication, or the wrong reason was given?

97 FloridaAnole  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:06:50pm

re: #88 LEGION

On Bill O’Reilly now- the moonbats are pushing to bring President Bush to trial for war-crimes-?! It takes a liberal to say keeping this nation safe, freeing 53 million people from tryanny- is a war crime. Damn all liberals!

Like I said, spinning off into complete insanity.

98 jill e  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:06:52pm

Thanks, Charles. I’m still exhausted from the last thread about “Bishop” Williamson. I’m sitting this one out.

99 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:06:57pm
100 yochanan  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:07:20pm

re: #35 Alouette

Great, now when will they gag Pat Pukecannon?

RAT PUKEANAN

101 DisturbedEma  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:07:40pm
102 Nevergiveup  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:07:42pm

re: #92 Walter L. Newton

Ok, I have problems with some of the points he made in the interview, but, he also made points that really surprised me, such as the fact that Israel will always be an ally. So, I guess we have to wait to see if he keeps those promises.

He certainly made pro-Israel points that Jimmy Carter would never have considered making.

We’ve sold allies down the river before. South Vietnam ring a bell?

103 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:07:56pm

re: #83 buzzsawmonkey

Tough on that whole “sanctuary” thing. Poor Quasimodo. Poor Esmeralda.

Yea, another uplifting story about the church. Quasi was a slave and the priest was bopping Esmer.

104 Sharmuta  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:07:57pm

Can’t the Pope excommunicate whomever he wants?

105 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:08:15pm
106 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:08:26pm

re: #86 bellamags

I would love to slap Marc Lamont Hill.

Well we could always do a slapmarclamonthill.com and every time you roll your mouse over his face it would be a slap…/complete with all the sound effects.. :)

107 mean Gene  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:09:10pm

re: #104 Sharmuta

Can’t the Pope excommunicate whomever he wants?

I think he has to have a good reason, like that the guy taught an apostized version of their religion, or something.

108 bellamags  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:09:21pm

re: #106 HoosierHoops

Well we could always do a slapmarclamonthill.com and every time you roll your mouse over his face it would be a slap…/complete with all the sound effects.. :)

OH. thats good. i love it. LOL ; )

109 spirochete  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:09:39pm

re: #105 buzzsawmonkey

Spanish ruined my French years ago.

They can certainly impede each other. You really have to speak another language exclusively for at least a few months so the patterns will jam in your head and you can fall back on them later.

110 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:09:40pm

re: #102 Nevergiveup

We’ve sold allies down the river before. South Vietnam ring a bell?

Of course it possible, so, we assume that everything he says, at any time, at any point, any day, any night, is a lie. No, I have problems with him, but I don’t go through life like that. It sounds like early symptoms of ODS.

111 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:09:54pm

re: #99 buzzsawmonkey

No; me for the dark, brooding, bloody silent film with Lon Chaney.

I actually won’t watch certain Disney films; this is one of those. With the exception of Jungle Book, I can’t handle the mutilation of classics or history.

I have kids, though, so I know the plot line.

112 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:10:09pm

re: #30 Ringo the Gringo

Correct me if I’m mistaken, but I believe Williamson is no longer a Bishop, or even a priest for that matter.

His “un-excommunication”, as far as I know, only allows him to receive communion.

He’s still a complete bastard though, and deserves to be ridiculed.

I think your understanding is correct.

113 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:10:23pm
114 Wild Knight  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:10:45pm

re: #101 DisturbedEma

Hmm, judging by this site FLAICA Uniti - C.U.B. FLAICA Uniti - C.U.B., those guys are communists.

115 mean Gene  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:11:22pm

re: #106 HoosierHoops

Well we could always do a slapmarclamonthill.com and every time you roll your mouse over his face it would be a slap…/complete with all the sound effects.. :)

Hehehe.
You reminded me of this kitty.
broenink-art.nl
(If that doesn’t work click the little kitty here)
broenink-art.nl

Surely someone here could do this!

116 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:11:56pm
117 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:13:04pm

re: #98 jill e

Thanks, Charles. I’m still exhausted from the last thread about “Bishop” Williamson. I’m sitting this one out.

Jill - I read the thread you’re talking about and understand why you are exhausted!
Good job keeping facts straight.

118 sultan_knish  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:13:15pm

If you look at their website, the Society of Saint Pius is a good deal uglier than one Bishop’s holocaust denials

sspx.org

insane ramblings follow blaming the Jews for just about everything wrong with the world, including both Communism and Capitalism, also the Renaissance, the French Revolution, the Protestant Church and banks. Oh yes, the banks.

Christendom and Jewry are destined inevitably to meet everywhere without reconciliation or mixing. It represents in history the eternal struggle of Lucifer against God, of darkness against the Light, of the flesh against the spirit.



In the world as it is, there can be only two truly basic modes, two poles of attraction: the Christian and the Jewish. Only two religions: Christian and Jewish. All that is not of Christ and for Christ is done in favor of Judaism.

Nevertheless, though the Jewish people must be protected, it was recognized it was dangerous enough to be isolated into its own neighborhoods.

Jews must not live together with Christians because this is what their own Jewish laws ordain and also because their errors and material superiority have virulent consequences among other peoples.

At the end of the Middle Ages, the Gentile people committed great sins, especially the clergy. Thus weakened, this people succumbed to the brain and hand of Judaization —through the Renaissance, the French Revolution, and Communism.

To penetrate Christendom, the masses must be captivated and rebellion fomented against its two pillars —Pope and King. The formula prepared by Judaism for their destruction: Liberty, Equality, Fraternity.

It is a matter of public historical record that Communism was financed by Jewish money.

It is public knowledge that the Jewish sector, relatively small compared to the Gentile sector which devotes itself to the creation of wealth, controls especially the financial power that is exercised through banks.

119 mean Gene  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:13:32pm

re: #30 Ringo the Gringo


Correct me if I’m mistaken, but I believe Williamson is no longer a Bishop, or even a priest for that matter.

His “un-excommunication”, as far as I know, only allows him to receive communion.

He’s still a complete bastard though, and deserves to be ridiculed.


What a relief!

120 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:13:38pm

re: #115 mean Gene

Hehehe.
You reminded me of this kitty.
[Link: www.broenink-art.nl…]
(If that doesn’t work click the little kitty here)
[Link: www.broenink-art.nl…]

Surely someone here could do this!

If Goddess ever goes to that site…She will never go to school again.. LOL

121 FloridaAnole  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:13:59pm

re: #92 Walter L. Newton

Ok, I have problems with some of the points he made in the interview, but, he also made points that really surprised me, such as the fact that Israel will always be an ally. So, I guess we have to wait to see if he keeps those promises.

He certainly made pro-Israel points that Jimmy Carter would never have considered making.

Do you think he meant it? I mean, significantly vocal segnments of his supporters here are either anti-Israel (“Anti Zionist”) or studiedly neutral. Also, he used the opportunity to Bush-Bash, falsely claiming Bush was anti-Muslim (this in the face of the “Religion of Peace” speach on or around 9/12/01.

122 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:14:41pm

re: #113 buzzsawmonkey

No, Quasimodo was given a home when he could not find one in the outside world. The priest may have lusted after Esmeralda, but my recollection is that he never quite managed to follow his divining rod where he wanted to go.

Buzz, sometimes you are too literal. I know the details. I was going beyond the text, trying to get into the mind of Hugo, find the nuances (after all, he was French), and anyway, I’ve always had a fantasy about the chic in the Charles Laughton movie version.

Leave me alone :)

123 WitchDoctor  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:15:36pm

This is an offshoot of the effort to overcome and smooth over the previous schism. I’m guessing that was considered more important for the health of the Church proper at the time the decision was made to reinstate the schismatic followers. I don’t think His Holiness counted on having a holocaust denier on his hands and he obviously condemns it.

I will say though, I never understood the big deal about Catholics (of which I am one) praying for the conversion of others, Jewish or not. If you are a member of a church it stands to reason you think it is correct above others. It therefore follows everyone else is pretty much… wrong. What a concept, you believe one thing, they believe another. What is unacceptable of course is forcing them to believe as you do. Praying for conversion is not the same as beating someone over the head to accomplish it.

124 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:15:37pm
125 Wild Knight  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:16:03pm

re: #104 Sharmuta

Can’t the Pope excommunicate whomever he wants?

No. The Pope can’t slap excommunications at his pleasure. Excommunication takes place when the person breaks his ties definitely with the Church; heresy, schism and certain very serious mortal sins. It can take place by a formal declaration on the part of the person or the Church can declare him excommunicated. Locally, there was a chap who declared that he did not agree with the Church’s position on homosexuality and he excommunicated himself. This, in itself, is not excommunicable but he chose to do so and as such, his declaration is valid. There are certain sins which automatically incur excommunication. Committing abortion for example or desecrating the Eucharist.

126 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:16:06pm

re: #113 buzzsawmonkey

No, Quasimodo was given a home when he could not find one in the outside world. The priest may have lusted after Esmeralda, but my recollection is that he never quite managed to follow his divining rod where he wanted to go.

The original is also hilarious when read as a parody. The priest is a victim of convention, Esmeralda is an airhead, and Quasimodo isn’t all that sympathetic.

127 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:16:21pm

OT

I am re-posting this COOKBOOK update here, in case anyone missed when I put it in the open thread earlier:

I just spoke with FlakMusic, and the files are ready to be uploaded to LULU.com

I think it would behoove me to order a copy of the book first, BEFORE posting the “sale” link, to be sure that there are no glitches in the printing of the book. Wouldn’t it be awful if everyone ordered and received a book with half the recipes missing?

Please be on the lookout for the “ready for sale” announcement and link sometime between mid-February to end of February.

The announcement will be posted here, as well as in LGF open threads over the course of several days to make sure people see it.

Ya’ll are gonna love it!

And, registered user FlakMusic has done the heavy lifting on this, putting into a nice format, converting the files to PDF and uploading them according to the lulu.com requirements - a special thank you to him.

And a special thank you to Jaunte for the cover art, when you see it, you will be in awe.

128 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:16:23pm
129 CIA Reject  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:16:49pm

re: #87 mean Gene

But why is the guy still being referred to as a ”bishop?”
A gag rule, it would seem, should have him removed from all authority over the laity, no?

He is, and will always be, a bishop because he was ordained a bishop. Ordination is not something that can be “undone”.

He cannot function as a bishop- ie he cannot teach, or administer the Sacraments- because he is under orders not to do so.

He is under orders not to do so because he is an idiot.

130 Sharmuta  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:17:09pm

re: #118 sultan_knish

That’s some whacked out shit.

131 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:17:25pm

re: #120 HoosierHoops

If Goddess ever goes to that site…She will never go to school again.. LOL

I’m particularly fond of black and white kitties!

132 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:17:34pm

re: #124 buzzsawmonkey

Laughton is good—but if you haven’t seen the Chaney silent, you’re denying yourself a treat.

I have, I have, dammit, I was talking about wanting to bop the chic, the actress, the on in the movie, stooooppppp geeeessshhhh. :)

133 FloridaAnole  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:17:37pm

Urp! My 121. Should read “speech”. (Ahem!) Mental spellchecker dropped its transmission. Sorry.

134 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:18:02pm
135 Catttt  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:18:09pm

re: #30 Ringo the Gringo

Correct me if I’m mistaken, but I believe Williamson is no longer a Bishop, or even a priest for that matter.

His “un-excommunication”, as far as I know, only allows him to receive communion.

He’s still a complete bastard though, and deserves to be ridiculed.

No - he is still a priest and bishop. Here is what I posted on the Sunday thread:

Allow me to give a link to Father Z, who explains this complex issue.

MISCONCEPTIONS: What the “lifting” of the SSPX excom’s means for people

The bishops of the SSPX are validly consecrated bishops, but the fact remains that they were illicitly consecrated. That hasn’t changed. They are still not reconciled with the Bishop of Rome. They are still suspended a divinis. They still have no permission to exercise ministry in the Church. They may not licitly ordain. They have no authority to establish parishes, etc.

This is all part of an attempt to heal a schism, and I’m sure it never occurred to the Church that this particular bishop’s idiotic beliefs would draw fire. He was just one of half a dozen bishops who were symbolically absolved for the schism.

Compared to Canon Law, the Series 7 exam is a piece of cake.

136 Racer X  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:18:29pm

re: #30 Ringo the Gringo

Correct me if I’m mistaken, but I believe Williamson is no longer a Bishop, or even a priest for that matter.

His “un-excommunication”, as far as I know, only allows him to receive communion.

He’s still a complete bastard though, and deserves to be ridiculed.

Agreed.

137 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:18:33pm

re: #130 Sharmuta

That’s some whacked out shit.

Par for the European course.

138 spirochete  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:18:50pm

It is a matter of public historical record that Communism was financed by Jewish money.

Yeah, maybe stolen money.

139 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:18:51pm
140 Wild Knight  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:19:00pm

re: #123 WitchDoctor

I will say though, I never understood the big deal about Catholics (of which I am one) praying for the conversion of others, Jewish or not. If you are a member of a church it stands to reason you think it is correct above others. It therefore follows everyone else is pretty much… wrong. What a concept, you believe one thing, they believe another. What is unacceptable of course is forcing them to believe as you do. Praying for conversion is not the same as beating someone over the head to accomplish it.

Not exactly. The Church officially believes that the Jewish faith is valid and salvific. I’m not going to look up the relevant documents because I’m too lazy, however, Bat Ye’or appended them to her book “Eurabia”. Amongst the documents there was one by Ratzinger himself.

141 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:19:30pm

re: #116 buzzsawmonkey

The Jungle Book, in the original prose, is better than anything the Disney factory thought up on its best day.

Though I do love “Dumbo.”

I am a huge Kipling fan (although I’ve never Kipled), and love that book.
The Disney movie is really good for watching with toddlers, though.

I love Dumbo, though I cry like a baby. (Never, Never, Never watch Dumbo when you are a pregnant or nursing mother. Just don’t.)

142 sultan_knish  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:19:33pm

re: #130 Sharmuta

it’s retro extreme anti-semitism, the sort of thing the likes of Buchanan or Gibson believe, which explains a lot about their nuttiness.

143 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:20:33pm

re: #105 buzzsawmonkey

Spanish ruined my French years ago.

Yiddish ruined my German.

144 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:20:46pm

re: #139 buzzsawmonkey

Sorry. Haven’t seen the Laughton version recently enough to remember which hot mama played Esmeralda.

Please Buzz, please… sit back, take your fingers off the keyboard, think, consider, now, just go along with my little fantasy, you don’t have to comment, gosh, now it’s not even excited anymore.

145 Ojoe  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:21:30pm

Yes! Gagged! Good!


With an uber-spoon, from the German Pope.

146 Wild Knight  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:21:37pm

re: #32 Walter L. Newton

What did the holy father do, except to say we don’t agree with him. That’s it, they still reinstated him to receive holy communion, to be accepted at the altar as a congregant. Big whoop!

A Papal statement is pretty significant given the way things work in Rome. This about as public a slap in the face as you can get - and a discreet warning to boot. Rome’s modus operandi is not exactly showy.

147 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:21:50pm
148 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:21:53pm

re: #141 EmmmieG

I am a huge Kipling fan (although I’ve never Kipled), and love that book.
The Disney movie is really good for watching with toddlers, though.

I love Dumbo, though I cry like a baby. (Never, Never, Never watch Dumbo when you are a pregnant or nursing mother. Just don’t.)

My last baby is now 13, and just THINKING of the song “Baby of Mine” is making my eyes well up!

149 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:22:14pm

re: #143 Alouette

Yiddish ruined my German.

The Queens English ruined my Farsi..
So I took up Hawaiian

150 sultan_knish  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:22:16pm

I do like the somewhat innovative SSPX approach to justifying an unlimited open-ended Blame the Jews for Everything policy.

In the world as it is, there can be only two truly basic modes, two poles of attraction: the Christian and the Jewish. Only two religions: Christian and Jewish. All that is not of Christ and for Christ is done in favor of Judaism.

Which to the SSPX folks means that anything they don’t approve of anywhere in the world is automatically the fault of the Jews. Including the Protestant Reformation and the Vatican’s own reforms.

I guess it saves the trouble of nitpicking over whether the Jews actually downed the Space Shuttle or not. If it happened, the Jews are to blame.

151 jwb7605  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:22:18pm

re: #143 Alouette

Yiddish ruined my German.

Nebraskan ruined my American. Or so I’m told.

152 FloridaAnole  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:22:18pm

re: #138 spirochete

It is a matter of public historical record that Communism was financed by Jewish money.

Yeah, maybe stolen money.

Huh? Shouldn’t there be a sarc thingy / here?

153 Randall Gross  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:22:40pm

re: #90 Wild Knight

They were. By accepting ordination not sanctioned by the valid Vatican authorities, they put themselves automatically into a position of schism. Hence the excommunication.

I’m going right now by what I’m reading in wiki on the subject, a notoriously unreliable source, however good to get the gist of things from and pointers to better sources of info. Here’s what they have on the renegade Lefebvre and the rift:

In January 1975 the new Bishop of Fribourg stated his wish to withdraw the SSPX’s pious union status. Though Lefebvre then had two meetings with the commission of Cardinals, the Bishop put his intention into effect on 6 May 1975, [71] thereby officially dissolving the Society.[74] This action was subsequently upheld by Pope Paul VI, who wrote to Archbishop Lefebvre in June 1975. Lefebvre continued his work regardless.[75]

In the consistory of 24 May 1976, Pope Paul VI criticized Archbishop Lefebvre by name and appealed to him and his followers to change their minds.[76]

On 29 June 1976, Lefebvre went ahead with planned priestly ordinations without the approval of the local Bishop and despite receiving letters from Rome forbidding them. As a result Lefebvre was suspended a collatione ordinum, i.e., forbidden to ordain any priests. A week later, the Prefect of the Congregation for Bishops informed him that, to have his situation regularized, he needed to ask the Pope’s pardon. Lefebvre responded with a letter claiming that the modernisation of the Church was a “compromise with the ideas of modern man” originating in a secret agreement between high dignitaries in the Church and senior Freemasons prior to the Council.[77] Lefebvre was then notified that, since he had not apologised to the Pope, he was suspended a divinis,[78] i.e., he could no longer legally administer any of the sacraments.[79] Lefebvre remarked that he had been forbidden from celebrating the new rite of Mass[80] (this was clearly a joke,[citation needed] but Pope Paul VI apparently took it seriously and stated that Lefebvre “thought he dodged the penalty by administering the sacraments using the previous formulas”).[81] In spite of his suspension, Lefebvre continued to pray Mass and to administer the other Sacraments, including the conferral of Holy Orders to the students of his seminary.

Pope Paul VI received Lefebvre in audience on 11 September 1976,[82] and one month later wrote to him admonishing him and, repeating the appeal he had made at the audience.[83] Pope John Paul II also received Lefebvre in audience sixty days after his 1978 election,[84] again without reaching agreement.

154 CIA Reject  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:22:54pm

re: #104 Sharmuta

Can’t the Pope excommunicate whomever he wants?

Excommunication is something you do to yourself by choosing to believe something contrary to Church Doctrine, or not believe something that Doctrine requires you to believe.

The Pope simply points out that your (dis)belief is against Church Doctrine and if you persist in it you have hence have cut yourself off from the Church.

You are not a Catholic if you do not believe the teachings of the Catholic Church.

155 Ojoe  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:22:55pm

re: #1 BignJames

This was very quick for the Catholic Church, which has a 2,000 year history and does not think of “late” in the same terms as most people.

156 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:23:16pm
157 Racer X  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:23:36pm

re: #65 MandyManners

I just hope Winston06 doesn’t show up.

I still cannot understand what inspired him to post “all religious people are idiots”, and “all priests are pedophiles”.

And then he wondered why he got smacked around.

158 The Shadow Do  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:24:26pm

Question, with Fox news in the background….

Why is Megyn Kelley not headlining a news program. She is clearly the smartest, toughest media protagonist going.

Glen Beck? Mike Huckabee? Good grief.

159 Catttt  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:24:27pm

re: #148 goddessoftheclassroom

My last baby is now 13, and just THINKING of the song “Baby of Mine” is making my eyes well up!

I’m going to warn my boss - he and his wife just had their numero uno baby. She had a bit of a tough last trimester, and he has been as much pregnant as she was (and as excited and happy and hopeful as she was). He’s currently on paternity leave, and we are awaiting the first pics. :D

160 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:24:46pm

re: #147 buzzsawmonkey

We had a very interesting time driving through Germany when I was a kid, since my father’s German was largely Yiddish-based. This was 15 years after the War; we got a lot of not-particularly-friendly looks.

We had an interesting short visit to Frankfurt a year ago. One thing we discovered, at the Chabad House nobody spoke German! Hebrew, Russian and English.

In order to get into the Jewish Center, which was surrounded by a huge electronic iron gate, we had to speak Hebrew.

161 jcm  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:25:02pm

Evening Lizards…..
The latest must have widget for your computer.

I think plugging this in during a long winded meeting would liven things up.

162 LGoPs  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:25:13pm

re: #123 WitchDoctor

This is an offshoot of the effort to overcome and smooth over the previous schism. I’m guessing that was considered more important for the health of the Church proper at the time the decision was made to reinstate the schismatic followers. I don’t think His Holiness counted on having a holocaust denier on his hands and he obviously condemns it.

I will say though, I never understood the big deal about Catholics (of which I am one) praying for the conversion of others, Jewish or not. If you are a member of a church it stands to reason you think it is correct above others. It therefore follows everyone else is pretty much… wrong. What a concept, you believe one thing, they believe another. What is unacceptable of course is forcing them to believe as you do. Praying for conversion is not the same as beating someone over the head to accomplish it.

The nuns used to beat me over the head regularly in grammar school…….no lasting effects whatsoever….except for a slight tw…tw…..twitch.
Oh, and the occasional random outburst of maniacal laughter…..but other than that….I’m fine……just okey dokey…..

/ :) Just kidding

163 spirochete  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:25:39pm

re: #152 FloridaAnole

Huh? Shouldn’t there be a sarc thingy / here?

164 UberInfidel67  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:25:46pm

re: #80 Walter L. Newton God doesn’t wait for you to become “perfect” before you can partake in mass or whatever. A sinner can enter a church, as long as in his heart he is looking for redemption, understanding, etc. If we all waited until we were perfect to seek God, none would ever find him.

165 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:25:59pm

re: #159 Catttt

I’m going to warn my boss - he and his wife just had their numero uno baby. She had a bit of a tough last trimester, and he has been as much pregnant as she was (and as excited and happy and hopeful as she was). He’s currently on paternity leave, and we are awaiting the first pics. :D

How wonderful!
When a woman is a mom, she can really identify with Mrs. Jumbo’s going off on the bullies being mean to her baby!
(it all ends VERY well, though!}

166 spirochete  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:26:34pm

re: #152 FloridaAnole

Huh? Shouldn’t there be a sarc thingy / here?

Yes, most definitely.

167 Catttt  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:26:45pm

re: #161 jcm

It would liven the meeting up when I got booted out the door and fired. My workplace must be a little more conservative than yours. ;p

168 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:26:49pm

re: #161 jcm

Evening Lizards…..
The latest must have widget for your computer.

I think plugging this in during a long winded meeting would liven things up.

[Video]

Wouldn’t that get spoung all over your USB port?

169 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:27:24pm
170 Jimmah  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:27:28pm

I watched a documentary the other night on Channel 4 which was largely concerned with the roots of Christian anti-semitism - “Jesus The Jew” by Howard Jacobsen - very informative. I’ll post a link to the video when it becomes available.

171 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:27:42pm

re: #164 UberInfidel67

God doesn’t wait for you to become “perfect” before you can partake in mass or whatever. A sinner can enter a church, as long as in his heart he is looking for redemption, understanding, etc. If we all waited until we were perfect to seek God, none would ever find him.

Sorry, the guy can go “perfect” himself in some other fucking place, not my congregation.

172 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:27:44pm
173 BignJames  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:28:13pm

re: #155 Ojoe

This was very quick for the Catholic Church, which has a 2,000 year history and does not think of “late” in the same terms as most people.

Understand your point…..I’m thinking “the cat’s outta’ the bag”.

174 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:28:26pm

re: #170 Jimmah

I watched a documentary the other night on Channel 4 which was largely concerned with the roots of Christian anti-semitism - “Jesus The Jew” by Howard Jacobsen - very informative. I’ll post a link to the video when it becomes available.

We can start with Paul.

175 sultan_knish  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:28:49pm

re: #160 Alouette

not surprising, Chabad’s populations are based out of the US, Israel and these days Russia. I did know one Chabad Shliach in Germany and he spoke German, but he was older.

176 spirochete  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:28:53pm

re: #174 Walter L. Newton

We can start with Paul.

Paul…is…dead

177 Killian Bundy  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:29:07pm

Wow, Bill O’Reilly just said that he “made holy hell on Ward Churchill”.

/a more scary concept than I’m currently disposed to entertain

178 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:29:25pm

re: #176 spirochete

Paul…is…dead

That’s why he’s barefoot on the Abbey Road cover.

179 Jimmah  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:29:34pm

re: #174 Walter L. Newton

We can start with Paul.

That is where it starts.

180 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:29:35pm

re: #176 spirochete

Paul…is…dead

Yeah, you can tell because he’s out of step on the Abbey Road album.

181 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:29:37pm

re: #176 spirochete

Paul…is…dead

Yep. You’re a biblical scholar, right? :)

182 Sharmuta  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:29:37pm

re: #154 CIA Reject

Excommunication is something you do to yourself by choosing to believe something contrary to Church Doctrine, or not believe something that Doctrine requires you to believe.

The Pope simply points out that your (dis)belief is against Church Doctrine and if you persist in it you have hence have cut yourself off from the Church.

You are not a Catholic if you do not believe the teachings of the Catholic Church.

And Holocaust denial isn’t one of them?

183 sultan_knish  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:29:40pm

Oh yes, and security for Jewish facilities in Europe is often handled by Israelis.

184 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:30:06pm

You’re faster on the keyboard Goddess, I take my hat off to you.

185 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:30:41pm

re: #184 EmmmieG

You’re faster on the keyboard Goddess, I take my hat off to you.

GMTA!

186 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:31:04pm
187 sultan_knish  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:31:08pm

re: #172 MandyManners

back in the day Father Coughlin recited just this kind of stuff, and got very popular on it, until the Church finally silenced him.

188 Racer X  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:31:42pm

re: #155 Ojoe

I see towercam is finally back on line.

189 jcm  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:31:48pm

re: #167 Catttt

It would liven the meeting up when I got booted out the door and fired. My workplace must be a little more conservative than yours. ;p

Getting tossed isn’t lively?
/ ;-P

190 spirochete  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:31:55pm

re: #181 Walter L. Newton

Yep. You’re a biblical scholar, right? :)

Hardly. I find it interesting to read about but my knowledge is more gaps than knowledge. I will be filling in details for the remainder of my life. But it’s fun so I don’t mind a slowly diminishing ignorance.

191 Jimmah  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:31:56pm

re: #178 goddessoftheclassroom

That’s why he’s barefoot on the Abbey Road cover.

He’s been dead to me since the Frog Chorus.

192 itellu3times  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:31:59pm

Um, he’s still a bishop? Shouldn’t they bust him down to pawn?

193 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:32:00pm

re: #183 sultan_knish

Oh yes, and security for Jewish facilities in Europe is often handled by Israelis.

In Moscow and Frankfurt security is handled by local police and security firms.

194 mean Gene  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:32:55pm

re: #158 The Shadow Do

Question, with Fox news in the background….

Why is Megyn Kelley not headlining a news program. She is clearly the smartest, toughest media protagonist going.

Glen Beck? Mike Huckabee? Good grief.

She co-hosts in the AM with that flirtatious jerk.

195 Sharmuta  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:33:13pm
The Vatican said Monday that comments by a recently rehabilitated bishop that no Jews were gassed during the Holocaust were “unacceptable” and violate church teaching.

If he’s violating Church teachings, that’s enough for excommunication?

196 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:33:38pm
197 solomonpanting  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:34:07pm

re: #192 itellu3times

Um, he’s still a bishop? Shouldn’t they bust him down to pawn?

I’ll have to check, mate.

198 jcm  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:34:16pm

Yeah! Let’s close Gitmo, capital idea!

Former Guantanamo Prisoners Threaten Western And Arab Countries.

199 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:34:23pm

re: #169 buzzsawmonkey

Little known fact: Walt Kelly, of “Pogo” fame, was one of the artists on “Dumbo.”

We have met the enemy, and he is us.

200 AlexRogan  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:34:28pm

re: #118 sultan_knish

I read most of that slightly disguised dreck…made me throw up in my mouth some.

201 sultan_knish  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:35:01pm

re: #196 MandyManners

Quite a while, when his popularity had faded, and some of his followers had crossed into the terrorist range. Also cheerleading Hitler had ceased to be such a good time.

202 itellu3times  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:35:06pm

re: #197 solomonpanting

I’ll have to check, mate.

Break him down to an pissant.
/stretch

203 UberInfidel67  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:35:14pm

re: #171 Walter L. Newton
That’s exactly what I would expect from you.

204 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:35:17pm

re: #195 Sharmuta

If he’s violating Church teachings, that’s enough for excommunication?

Yep.

205 sultan_knish  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:36:06pm

re: #200 talon_262

I read most of that slightly disguised dreck…made me throw up in my mouth some.

sadly that’s actually their gussied up material for a public forum. Their old website from what I remember was much worse.

206 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:36:16pm

Well day one of American Idol was a disaster…Maybe they should raise the age limit in Florida trials..Cause Quite frankly, I’d preferred a 75 year old blue hair lady shaking her stuff singing crazy bitch.

207 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:36:17pm

re: #198 jcm

Yeah! Let’s close Gitmo, capital idea!

Former Guantanamo Prisoners Threaten Western And Arab Countries.

[Video]

Oh, those rascals! The hijinks they get up to, I swear.

208 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:37:12pm

re: #190 spirochete

Hardly. I find it interesting to read about but my knowledge is more gaps than knowledge. I will be filling in details for the remainder of my life. But it’s fun so I don’t mind a slowly diminishing ignorance.

I need to clarify, I meant that in jest. You see, I mention the Paul in the bible, you say “Paul is dead” I say of “of course he is, you’re a scholar,” it’s not funny anymore… never mind :)

209 Racer X  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:37:26pm

During one of her daily classes, a teacher trying to teach good manners asked her students the following question:

“Michael, if you were on a date having dinner with a nice young lady, how would you tell her that you have to go to the bathroom?”

Michael said, “Just a minute I have to go pee.”
The teacher responded by saying, “That would be rude and impolite.”

What about you Sherman, how would you say it?
Sherman said, “I am sorry, but I really need to go to the bathroom. I’ll be right back.”

“That’s better, but it’s still not very nice to say the word bathroom at the dinner table.”

“And you, Edward, can you show us how you would use your good manners?”
“I would say: Darling, may I please be excused for a moment? I have to shake hands with a very dear friend of mine, whom I hope to introduce you to after dinner.”

The teacher fainted…

210 jcm  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:38:03pm

re: #204 Walter L. Newton

Yep.

But buggering priests get official cover? The church isn’t doing well in couple areas.
Please no offense meant to my Catholic friends, by why isn’t there more of an uproar from the pews?

211 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:38:36pm

re: #209 Racer X

During one of her daily classes, a teacher trying to teach good manners asked her students the following question:

“Michael, if you were on a date having dinner with a nice young lady, how would you tell her that you have to go to the bathroom?”

Michael said, “Just a minute I have to go pee.”
The teacher responded by saying, “That would be rude and impolite.”

What about you Sherman, how would you say it?
Sherman said, “I am sorry, but I really need to go to the bathroom. I’ll be right back.”

“That’s better, but it’s still not very nice to say the word bathroom at the dinner table.”

“And you, Edward, can you show us how you would use your good manners?”
“I would say: Darling, may I please be excused for a moment? I have to shake hands with a very dear friend of mine, whom I hope to introduce you to after dinner.”

The teacher fainted…

I hope with all my heart that none of my students read LGF…

212 Jimmah  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:38:57pm

A song for these somewhat fractious times on LGF :D

213 LGoPs  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:39:11pm

re: #207 Occasional Reader

Oh, those rascals! The hijinks they get up to, I swear.

Yeah, they’re just Middle Eastern versions of Wally and the Beaver……
/

214 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:39:30pm

re: #203 UberInfidel67

That’s exactly what I would expect from you.

Yep, his kind of Jew hatred has no place in my life, wouldn’t have no place in my church and if I was close enough to effect his life, I would make sure that everyone knew just what he was. He can go get forgiveness someplace else.

There are some things that are so far from anyones moral compass that they are off the map, you know. And if your can put up with a man like that, then go ahead and cast your pearls among the swine.

Enjoy!

215 spirochete  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:39:46pm

re: #208 Walter L. Newton

I need to clarify, I meant that in jest. You see, I mention the Paul in the bible, you say “Paul is dead” I say of “of course he is, you’re a scholar,” it’s not funny anymore… never mind :)

Actually, I’m a doctor. And I am able to legally say that Paul (of Tarsus?) IS dead. The other Paul, is not. He is flirting with the daughter of an industrial titan of New England.

216 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:40:47pm

re: #215 spirochete

Actually, I’m a doctor. And I am able to legally say that Paul (of Tarsus?) IS dead. The other Paul, is not. He is flirting with the daughter of an industrial titan of New England.

Did you sign the death certificate?

217 jcm  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:40:54pm

re: #215 spirochete

Actually, I’m a doctor. And I am able to legally say that Paul (of Tarsus?) IS dead. The other Paul, is not. He is flirting with the daughter of an industrial titan of New England.

That only means he’s brain dead not having learned from the first two times.
/

218 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:41:21pm

re: #215 spirochete

Actually, I’m a doctor. And I am able to legally say that Paul (of Tarsus?) IS dead. The other Paul, is not. He is flirting with the daughter of an industrial titan of New England.

Well, so would I.

219 Hobbes  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:41:25pm

re: #80 Walter L. Newton

Honestly, you’re right. Why would you want this person in your commune when you know exactly how he feels. A church does not have to open it’s doors to anyone, if it doesn’t want them there.

Just giving him permission to “exist” in the congregation is offensive.

Unfortunately, this is why some people are turning their backs on religious organizations. How can anyone say they are Christian when they deny the facts of the Holocaust and welcome into their midst one who would.

220 spirochete  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:41:40pm

re: #216 HoosierHoops

Did you sign the death certificate?

I wasn’t working that night so someone else is gonna have to do that.

221 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:42:06pm

re: #206 HoosierHoops

Well day one of American Idol was a disaster…Maybe they should raise the age limit in Florida trials..Cause Quite frankly, I’d preferred a 75 year old blue hair lady shaking her stuff singing crazy bitch.

Wait, American Idol’s first episode this season was on Jan. 20th, 2009. I saw the winner and everything.

222 Sunlight  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:42:21pm

Was the Vatican statement in English? Did they actually say “unacceptable”? Not “wrong” or “false”? OMG Unbelievable!

223 UberInfidel67  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:42:21pm

re: #214 Walter L. Newton
And all we know about this is what we are reading now. We have no idea what the church is making him do. You cannot dictate what someone thinks. He is wrong….dead wrong. He may be doing penance…asking for forgiveness, being taught the error of his thinking.

I guess in your world, no mistake is correctable? Aren’t you the same one who was talking earlier about how we should or shouldn’t treat the scum at Gitmo? When some where saying to kill them all, you had an alternative view. Why is THIS so cut and dried for you?

224 WhiteRasta  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:43:05pm

re: #209 Racer X

Very good! Full marks for you!

225 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:43:15pm

re: #219 Hobbes

Unfortunately, this is why some people are turning their backs on religious organizations. How can anyone say they are Christian when they deny the facts of the Holocaust and welcome into their midst one who would.

Well said. I don’t know the answer. But I think UberInfidel67 does.

226 Hobbes  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:43:24pm

re: #82 FloridaAnole

More good news (not). This on top of Obama’s accommodationist signals to the Muslim world. Is it just me, or is the world spinning off into complete insanity? Tell me I’m just a depressive, or something. Please.

Sorry, I can’t.

227 Racer X  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:43:56pm

Two California Highway Patrol Officers were conducting speeding enforcement on I-15, just north of the Marine Corps Air Station at Miramar.

One of the officers was using a hand held radar device to check speeding vehicles approaching the crest of a hill. The officers were suddenly surprised when the radar gun began reading 300 miles per hour. The officer attempted to reset the radar gun, but it would not reset and then turned off.

Just then a deafening roar over the treetops revealed that the radar had in fact locked on to a USMC F/A-18 Hornet which was engaged in a low flying exercise near the location.

Back at the CHP Headquarters the Patrol Captain fired off a complaint to the USMC Base Commander.

The reply came back in true USMC style:
Thank you for your letter. We can now complete the file on this incident. You may be interested to know that the tactical computer in the Hornet had detected the presence of, and subsequently locked on to your hostile radar equipment and automatically sent a jamming signal back to it, which is why it shut down.

Furthermore, an Air-to-Ground missile aboard the fully armed aircraft had also automatically locked on to your equipment location. Fortunately, the Marine Pilot flying the Hornet recognized the situation for what it was, quickly responded to the missile system alert status and was able to override the automated defense system before the missile was launched to destroy the hostile radar position.

The pilot also suggests you cover your mouths when cussing at them, since the video systems on these jets are very high tech.
Sergeant Johnson, the officer holding the radar gun, should get his dentist to check his left rear molar. It appears the filling is loose. Also, the snap is broken on his holster.

Thank you for your concern.

Semper Fi

228 UberInfidel67  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:44:04pm

Yeah. I do.

229 spirochete  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:44:13pm

re: #226 Hobbes

Is there a transcript of the interview floating around anywhere? I tried looking earlier and couldn’t get anything.

230 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:45:09pm

re: #210 jcm

Please no offense meant to my Catholic friends, by why isn’t there more of an uproar from the pews?

I think the is uproar. But it’s important to remember that the structure of Catholicism is from the top down. I found a poll recently where over 90% of American Catholics don’t agree with the Vatican’s birth control policy. There’s nothing they can do about it. Cooperation with the Nazis, followed by decade of sex abuse scandals, lingering antisemitism, archaic and unreasonable social policies has left churches empty all over Europe. The Church is not doing well in American and I think they are even starting to lose South America. Religion is a consumer controlled commodity. People will go elsewhere.

231 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:45:41pm

re: #221 Walter L. Newton

Wait, American Idol’s first episode this season was on Jan. 20th, 2009. I saw the winner and everything.

I meant day one in Florida..It’s still on…
this just in…
Dear Al Gore
MAKE THE SNOW STOP!
Thank you
/my early pick to win American Idol is the latin teen model that ripped Whitney like nobodies business..jeez..what a voice..

232 darkster2400  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:47:00pm

just joining in - but is the best the Vatican could do is “unacceptable”? As the moral guides for a major world religion, seems to they that it could have been rather harsher.

233 CIA Reject  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:47:18pm

re: #182 Sharmuta

And Holocaust denial isn’t one of them?


While Church doctrine condemns all forms of genocide.
I cannot find anything in the Catechism specifically condemning Holocaust denial.

I also cannot find anything condemning 9/11 Trooferism, Moon Landing denial, or belief in the theory of Atlantis, JFK assasination conspiracies, or other equally idiotic notions.

But anyone who does not believe that there is a moral compulsion to resist any form of genocide is excommunicating himself from the Church.

234 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:48:21pm

re: #223 UberInfidel67

And all we know about this is what we are reading now. We have no idea what the church is making him do. You cannot dictate what someone thinks. He is wrong….dead wrong. He may be doing penance…asking for forgiveness, being taught the error of his thinking.

I guess in your world, no mistake is correctable? Aren’t you the same one who was talking earlier about how we should or shouldn’t treat the scum at Gitmo? When some where saying to kill them all, you had an alternative view. Why is THIS so cut and dried for you?

Hey, get your facts straight. I was asking if our country had the LEGAL right to execute all or any of them. There was only two or three answers to my question that came from Lizards who had an insight to the military and legal aspects of my question.

And guess what. Yep, they do have the right, if they wanted to, to execute them all. Fine with me.

But MOST of the comments that were trying to answer my question was OPINIONS, “yea, kill them all.” I wasn’t asking for opinions, I was asking for facts. I got the facts.

In my world I don’t cavort with Jew haters. Period. End of story.

You are trying to connect two trains of thought here that have no connection. Are you capable of critical thinking? No, I don’t think so. Read my response real carefully because I’m not going to go around and around with you.

You know my position on this piece of shit priest, and that is that.

235 jcm  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:49:01pm

re: #230 Killgore Trout

I think the is uproar. But it’s important to remember that the structure of Catholicism is from the top down. I found a poll recently where over 90% of American Catholics don’t agree with the Vatican’s birth control policy. There’s nothing they can do about it. Cooperation with the Nazis, followed by decade of sex abuse scandals, lingering antisemitism, archaic and unreasonable social policies has left churches empty all over Europe. The Church is not doing well in American and I think they are even starting to lose South America. Religion is a consumer controlled commodity. People will go elsewhere.

I know my congregation has several “former” catholics in it, who decided they wanted something more / different.

236 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:49:14pm

re: #231 HoosierHoops

I meant day one in Florida..It’s still on…
this just in…
Dear Al Gore
MAKE THE SNOW STOP!
Thank you
/my early pick to win American Idol is the latin teen model that ripped Whitney like nobodies business..jeez..what a voice..

I was talking about the American Idolization of the President.

237 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:49:41pm

re: #234 Walter L. Newton

You know my position on this piece of shit priest, and that is that.

You don’t like him?

238 Sunlight  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:49:54pm

And it says it “violates church teaching”? What does that mean. Wouldn’t they just say “violates reality and historical fact”? “Violates church teaching” sounds very soft and unsure of itself. Did the Vatican ever finally release ALL of the records from WWII or are they still keeping some under wraps.

239 Ojoe  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:50:03pm

re: #188 Racer X

Yes! About time!

240 UberInfidel67  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:50:25pm

re: #234 Walter L. Newton
No. I’ve noticed you just like to turn your way of thinking and your responses to the general concensus of the forum. And your condescending attitude when you respond to people makes you sound like a whiny little bitch.

241 Ojoe  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:52:10pm

re: #233 CIA Reject

I cannot find anything in the Catechism specifically condemning Holocaust denial.

OTOH the 10 commandments does say no lying.

242 UberInfidel67  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:52:21pm

Excommunication (Latin ex, out of, and communio or communicatio, communion — exclusion from the communion), the principal and severest censure, is a medicinal, spiritual penalty that deprives the guilty Christian of all participation in the common blessings of ecclesiastical society. Being a penalty, it supposes guilt; and being the most serious penalty that the Church can inflict, it naturally supposes a very grave offence. It is also a medicinal rather than a vindictive penalty, being intended, not so much to punish the culprit, as to correct him and bring him back to the path of righteousness. It necessarily, therefore, contemplates the future, either to prevent the recurrence of certain culpable acts that have grievous external consequences, or, more especially, to induce the delinquent to satisfy the obligations incurred by his offence. Its object and its effect are loss of communion, i.e. of the spiritual benefits shared by all the members of Christian society; hence, it can affect only those who by baptism have been admitted to that society. Undoubtedly there can and do exist other penal measures which entail the loss of certain fixed rights; among them are other censures, e.g. suspension for clerics, interdict for clerics and laymen, irregularity ex delicto, etc. Excommunication, however, is clearly distinguished from these penalties in that it is the privation of all rights resulting from the social status of the Christian as such. The excommunicated person, it is true, does not cease to be a Christian, since his baptism can never be effaced; he can, however, be considered as an exile from Christian society and as non-existent, for a time at least, in the sight of ecclesiastical authority. But such exile can have an end (and the Church desires it), as soon as the offender has given suitable satisfaction. Meanwhile, his status before the Church is that of a stranger. He may not participate in public worship nor receive the Body of Christ or any of the sacraments. Moreover, if he be a cleric, he is forbidden to administer a sacred rite or to exercise an act of spiritual authority.

243 ArmyWife  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:52:28pm

Hello! I see we are engaging in pleasantries. Has the Obama nightmare ended? Has he seen the light and error of his egomanical ways?

/I KNOW that isn’t a word

244 Racer X  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:53:05pm

My mom asked me what I was going to do today. I said “nothing”. She said “you did that yesterday!”

I said “I know, I’m not done”.

245 Sharmuta  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:53:13pm

re: #233 CIA Reject

The second article says this:

The Vatican said Monday that comments by a recently rehabilitated bishop that no Jews were gassed during the Holocaust were “unacceptable” and violate church teaching.

Then excommunicate his ass.

246 UberInfidel67  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:53:27pm
247 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:53:43pm

re: #233 CIA Reject
More recently….

Vatican reveals secrets of worst sins

While priests and bishops can deal with confessions of sins as grave as murder or even genocide, the tribunal is reserved for crimes which are viewed by the Church as even more serious.

They include attempting to assassinate the Pope, a priest abusing the confidentiality of the confessional by revealing the nature of the sin and the person who admitted to it, or a priest who has sex with someone and then offers forgiveness for the act.

A third type of case that comes before the tribunal involves a man who directly participates in an abortion - even by paying for it - who then seeks to become a priest or deacon.
….
Defiling the Eucharist, which Catholics believe is the body and blood of Christ, is also considered a sin of extreme gravity and one which is on the increase, the high-ranking members of the tribunal said.

They are much more concerned with an abortion or a cracker than they are genocide. They simply are out of touch with reality.

248 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:54:12pm

re: #243 ArmyWife

Hello! I see we are engaging in pleasantries. Has the Obama nightmare ended? Has he seen the light and error of his egomanical ways?

/I KNOW that isn’t a word

Good evening Armywife..Watching American Idol…
Having fun laughing

249 spirochete  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:54:17pm

The rise of the oceans have begun to slow?

I’m outta here before bottles start flying.

Nite all.

250 CIA Reject  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:55:09pm

re: #241 Ojoe

OTOH the 10 commandments does say no lying.

True - I was searching for something specific to the Holocaust, but the Catechism is no more a history book than is the Bible so there does not appear to be anything specific there. However the overall moral concept of genocide, which clearly applies to the Holocaust, is forcefully denounced.

251 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:55:16pm

re: #235 jcm

My family will still attend services a few times a year but they no longer donate money and will simply pass the collection plate.

252 UberInfidel67  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:55:17pm

re: #248 HoosierHoops

Is this the season premier? Are there any real real terrible singers like William “She Bangs” Hung? lol

253 goddessoftheclassroom  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:55:38pm

Good night, Lizards.

254 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:56:29pm

re: #240 UberInfidel67

No. I’ve noticed you just like to turn your way of thinking and your responses to the general concensus of the forum. And your condescending attitude when you respond to people makes you sound like a whiny little bitch.

Yes, your right. EVERYONE here tonight agrees with me, I have convinced them all, I have their consensus, we are going to breech the walls of the vatican and take the church back.

:)

255 rumcrook  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:57:08pm

re: #129 CIA Reject


I beleive he could be de-frocked and in that would no longer be anything

256 jcm  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:57:13pm

re: #237 Occasional Reader

OR,

Just for you………

*click on the poster for large view*

257 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:57:33pm

re: #237 Occasional Reader

You don’t like him?

You noticed? Is something showing? Do I need to go to the restroom and fix something?

:)

258 ArmyWife  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:57:36pm

re: #248 HoosierHoops

They family is watching that downstairs. Been an exciting evening at Casa de ArmyWife! Mr. ArmyWife had to perform the Heimlich maneuver on LT the chihuahua.

259 ArmyWife  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:57:57pm

re: #253 goddessoftheclassroom

Night!

260 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:57:59pm

re: #252 UberInfidel67

Is this the season premier? Are there any real real terrible singers like William “She Bangs” Hung? lol

They throw one or two Carrie Underwoods in between thousands of horrible singers.. It’s gets old..But then the one diamond in the rough is such a great payoff.

261 lobo91  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:58:12pm

re: #247 Killgore Trout

They are much more concerned with an abortion or a cracker than they are genocide. They simply are out of touch with reality.

Some Lizards are nothing if not predictable…

262 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:58:19pm

re: #253 goddessoftheclassroom

Good night, Lizards.

Night

263 albusteve  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:58:44pm

I like pie….who has pie?

264 CIA Reject  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:58:46pm

#247 Killgore Trout

More recently….

Vatican reveals secrets of worst sins

They are much more concerned with an abortion or a cracker than they are genocide. They simply are out of touch with reality.

Where does it say the Church is not concerned with genocide?

265 sultan_knish  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:59:06pm

re: #245 Sharmuta

The second article says this:

Then excommunicate his ass.

The Vatican knew exactly what his beliefs were in much greater detail. The Pope didn’t expend this much effort to bring him out from the cold just to excommunicate him.

Apologists will say that healing the breach will enable a more moderating influence on them. The reality is that I doubt it bothers the Pope very much. Had he gone on record endorsing abortion, that would have been a grave problem. This just offends the Jews, as far as the Vatican is concerned.

266 Racer X  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 5:59:06pm

re: #239 Ojoe

Check out the Steamboat Mountain cam. You can wait your turn to move the camera around. Better in daylight.

267 UberInfidel67  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:00:10pm

re: #254 Walter L. Newton Slow down there Walter….I meant that YOU follow the general concensus…. Was that slow enough for ya’?

268 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:00:11pm

re: #247 Killgore Trout

More recently….

Vatican reveals secrets of worst sins

They are much more concerned with an abortion or a cracker than they are genocide. They simply are out of touch with reality.

Your statement is most correct, and evidence of that can be seen close by.

269 CIA Reject  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:00:39pm

re: #245 Sharmuta

The second article says this:

Then excommunicate his ass.

If he believes something contrary to Church teaching HE HAS EXCOMMUNICATED HIMSELF.

270 notutopia  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:00:58pm

The Gagging of Richard Williamson is merely a church protection by disallowing any further anti-semitism from his mouth that would be used to criticize the Vatican.
I wish he were deemed worthy of excommunication.
Now, he is essentially a shamed cleric, with the same
religious privileges as a lay person in the church.

271 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:00:59pm

re: #247 Killgore Trout

More recently….

Vatican reveals secrets of worst sins

They are much more concerned with an abortion or a cracker than they are genocide. They simply are out of touch with reality.

My church has thought that since 863 AD.

272 rumcrook  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:01:17pm

re: #251 Killgore Trout

here’s the problem with that killgore, most of the money is used to pay for the parish, the heat the regular bills. and then other local activities either for the poor of the parish or outreach within the parish. its not kicked up stairs to the pope and the vatican. and the vatican doesnt send money down to your local parish to pay the bills.

273 FloridaAnole  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:01:17pm

re: #243 ArmyWife

Hello! I see we are engaging in pleasantries. Has the Obama nightmare ended? Has he seen the light and error of his egomanical ways?

/I KNOW that isn’t a word

‘Fraid not. The Lord Obama has declared a Holy Crusade against Rush Limbaugh, and has adjured all Republican congressfolk not to listen to him on pain of … (if I may borrow a word from this thread) excommunication from Beltway Insidership, or some damnfool thing or other. The hell of it is, some of those fools appear to be obeying.

274 The Shadow Do  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:01:42pm

re: #251 Killgore Trout

My family will still attend services a few times a year but they no longer donate money and will simply pass the collection plate.

What in world for? Why attend? If consuming, why not donate?

/I am agnostic

275 UberInfidel67  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:01:50pm

re: #268 Walter L. Newton

276 ArmyWife  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:02:20pm

re: #273 FloridaAnole

I’m reading that article now. Argh.

277 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:02:37pm

re: #256 jcm

OR,

Just for you………

*click on the poster for large view*

Nice, but I think the wife would object as home decoration.

Now, the office, on the other hand….

278 ClosetConservative  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:02:59pm

Every major religion has tangled with anti-Semitism at one point or another. Take a look at some of Martin Luther’s stuff.

279 albusteve  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:03:55pm

ExCommunication Breakdown….


280 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:04:28pm

re: #275 UberInfidel67

What grasshopper?

281 Catttt  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:04:37pm

re: #189 jcm

Getting tossed isn’t lively?
/ ;-P

Lively, but not worth it! At the very least, it should happen when it’s warm out and not sleeting!

282 jcm  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:04:56pm

re: #277 Occasional Reader

Nice, but I think the wife would object as home decoration.

Now, the office, on the other hand….

LOL! Wives have no taste…..

* and if anyone tells mine I said that……. *

283 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:05:16pm

re: #278 ClosetConservative

Every major religion has tangled with anti-Semitism at one point or another. Take a look at some of Martin Luther’s stuff.

Even Jews.

284 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:05:17pm

re: #278 ClosetConservative

Every major religion has tangled with anti-Semitism at one point or another. Take a look at some of Martin Luther’s stuff.

Most major Christians religions are the CAUSE of anti-semitism.

285 FloridaAnole  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:05:18pm

re: #276 ArmyWife

I’m reading that article now. Argh.

“Argh” expresses it eloquently.

286 jcm  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:05:46pm

re: #281 Catttt

Lively, but not worth it! At the very least, it should happen when it’s warm out and not sleeting!

Seeing how the damn unicorn is showing no interest in paying the mortgage, or even helping out. I have to agree with you.

287 jwb7605  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:06:06pm

re: #280 Walter L. Newton

What grasshopper?

I think he was going to comment that your comma (“,”) key is broken.

288 nyc redneck  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:06:37pm

this jackass needs to consult the moslem “cleric” w/ all the holocaust footage.

289 Killian Bundy  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:07:12pm

re: #279 albusteve

ExCommunication Breakdown….



Better …

/less puffy and more hungry

290 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:07:37pm

re: #287 jwb7605

I think he was going to comment that your comma (“,”) key is broken.

Er, ok.

It’s a white out outside. And it’s not snowing, but the winds are running around 35 miles per hour and it’s blowing all those 6 inches all over the place.

291 CyanSnowHawk  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:07:40pm

re: #118 sultan_knish

If you look at their website, the Society of Saint Pius is a good deal uglier than one Bishop’s holocaust denials

[Link: www.sspx.org…]

insane ramblings follow blaming the Jews for just about everything wrong with the world, including both Communism and Capitalism, also the Renaissance, the French Revolution, the Protestant Church and banks. Oh yes, the banks.

It is possible that Benedict is trying to bring them back into the fold so that the Church may exercise some authority over them. That would include getting them to eventually accept the decisions of Vatican II. Letting them exist outside and basically saying ‘good riddance’ is hardly an acceptable solution. I expect that it is of some importance to not let Vatican II be a schism point.

292 ArmyWife  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:07:59pm

re: #282 jcm

too late. Email sent.

293 bellamags  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:08:38pm

re: #290 Walter L. Newton

Er, ok.

It’s a white out outside. And it’s not snowing, but the winds are running around 35 miles per hour and it’s blowing all those 6 inches all over the place.

are you at home?

294 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:09:19pm

re: #293 bellamags

are you at home?

Yup.

295 lobo91  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:09:22pm

re: #282 jcm

LOL! Wives have no taste…..

* and if anyone tells mine I said that……. *

Mine might actually like it.

296 albusteve  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:09:27pm

re: #289 Killian Bundy

Better …



/less puffy and more hungry

I was inna hurry…nice catch…raw

297 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:10:09pm

re: #293 bellamags

are you at home?

You getting the storm up there also Bella?

298 ArmyWife  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:10:11pm

re: #290 Walter L. Newton

Those of us in the People’s Republic of Maryland are currently being victimized by Global Warming in the form of an ice storm.

299 jcm  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:10:18pm

re: #292 ArmyWife

too late. Email sent.

I got some ‘splainin’ to do….
;-)

300 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:10:34pm

re: #274 The Shadow Do

Because my family had donated a lot of money over the year to their hometown catholic franchise in California who then had to turn it all over to pay for child sex abuse scandals. My mom, in particular, is furious that her money was spent so that priests could have sex with children. She still likes the religious practice, don’t ask me why.

301 bellamags  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:10:39pm

re: #294 Walter L. Newton

Yup.

If you have a fireplace, do you have a fire going?

302 jwb7605  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:10:50pm

re: #290 Walter L. Newton

Er, ok.

It’s a white out outside. And it’s not snowing, but the winds are running around 35 miles per hour and it’s blowing all those 6 inches all over the place.

Here in Louisville, no wind at all.
My wife works at Southern Hills school, and usually comes home by driving a half mile south and taking Marshall road (east from highway 93)
She said that half mile was a total white out, and took her 15 minutes to navigate. Once she got east of Marshall, the wind completely stopped.

Odd pattern!

303 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:11:01pm

re: #291 CyanSnowHawk

It is possible that Benedict is trying to bring them back into the fold so that the Church may exercise some authority over them. That would include getting them to eventually accept the decisions of Vatican II. Letting them exist outside and basically saying ‘good riddance’ is hardly an acceptable solution. I expect that it is of some importance to not let Vatican II be a schism point.

It appears that the only way to bring this group back “into the fold” is to replace every member.

Who in heavens name would even want this group to be associated with themselves?

304 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:11:10pm

re: #298 ArmyWife

Those of us in the People’s Republic of Maryland are currently being victimized by Global Warming in the form of an ice storm.

Fortunately, here in DC, the Weatherdome protects us.

305 bellamags  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:11:46pm

re: #297 HoosierHoops

You getting the storm up there also Bella?

We are getting some fog and a front from that storm will go through about Thursday and we will have temps in the 20’s.

306 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:11:58pm

re: #272 rumcrook

the vatican doesnt send money down to your local parish to pay the bills.


Not would they kick in money to pay for the sex abuse scandals. Those had to be paid by the local franchise.

307 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:12:30pm

re: #64 Sharmuta

They should reinstate the excommunication.

Reinstating the excommunication would be for the unapproved consecration. Williamson should be excommed for a different reason now.

308 jwb7605  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:13:14pm

re: #306 Killgore Trout

Not would they kick in money to pay for the sex abuse scandals. Those had to be paid by the local franchise.

Is that good or bad in your opinion?

309 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:13:18pm

re: #301 bellamags

If you have a fireplace, do you have a fire going?

No fireplace. I’m comfortable, made a 5 gallon pot of chicken soup, really lean chicken and lots of veggies, eating a bowl right now, this is certainly soup and sweater weather.

I love sweaters. It’s like wearing a hug.

310 jcm  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:13:25pm

re: #304 Occasional Reader

Fortunately, here in DC, the Weatherdome protects us.

Weatherdome? I thought that was all the gaseous effluent emanating from congress that protected you!

311 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:13:55pm

re: #284 Walter L. Newton

Most major Christians religions are the CAUSE of anti-semitism.

Even a couple of obscure Jewish sects have been Antisemitic/Anti-Zionist. Never could figure that out.

312 Attaboid  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:13:56pm

Listening to Moonlight in Vermont

313 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:13:57pm
314 bellamags  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:14:06pm

re: #309 Walter L. Newton

No fireplace. I’m comfortable, made a 5 gallon pot of chicken soup, really lean chicken and lots of veggies, eating a bowl right now, this is certainly soup and sweater weather.

I love sweaters. It’s like wearing a hug.

LOL. Chicken soup rocks. especially home made.

315 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:14:10pm
316 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:14:57pm

re: #300 Killgore Trout

“catholic franchise”

Quote of the night, love it.

317 J.S.  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:15:00pm

Are there laws in Sweden about Holocaust denial? Wiki suggests he risks prosecution in Germany…maybe that accounts for the gag order…the Church leaders fear adverse publicity for a potentially indicted Bishop for hate speech? thus the gag order?

318 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:16:04pm

re: #314 bellamags

LOL. Chicken soup rocks. especially home made.

No noodles, to much carbs. I’d invite you over, but it would probably be spring before you could get here.

319 jwb7605  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:16:39pm

re: #318 Walter L. Newton

No noodles, to much carbs. I’d invite you over, but it would probably be spring before you could get here.

What do you use? Rice?

320 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:16:54pm

re: #309 Walter L. Newton

No fireplace. I’m comfortable, made a 5 gallon pot of chicken soup, really lean chicken and lots of veggies, eating a bowl right now, this is certainly soup and sweater weather.

I love sweaters. It’s like wearing a hug.

It’s like wearing a snuggie…
/I had too…
//BTW Purdue doesn’t impress me tonight against Wisconsin..
The presence in the paint is lame…

321 The Shadow Do  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:17:04pm

re: #300 Killgore Trout

Because my family had donated a lot of money over the year to their hometown catholic franchise in California who then had to turn it all over to pay for child sex abuse scandals. My mom, in particular, is furious that her money was spent so that priests could have sex with children. She still likes the religious practice, don’t ask me why.

Oh.

322 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:17:11pm
323 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:17:20pm

re: #315 buzzsawmonkey

OT:

Shepard Fairey, the Official Stalinist Portrait Artist of the Obama Regime, is a copyright infringer:

Article 1

Article 2

Hey, give the guy a break. His name is “Shepard Fairey”.


Theft we can believe in!

324 Killian Bundy  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:17:23pm

/Death By Black Hole

325 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:17:45pm

re: #311 FurryOldGuyJeans

Even a couple of obscure Jewish sects have been Antisemitic/Anti-Zionist. Never could figure that out.

It’s simple, humans hating other humans. All the “religion” it’s wrapped up with is just sick justifications, something to give it a cloak of respectability.

326 jcm  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:17:49pm

re: #315 buzzsawmonkey

OT:

Shepard Fairey, the Official Stalinist Portrait Artist of the Obama Regime, is a copyright infringer:

Article 1

Article 2

Theft we can believe in!

Symbolic of an Administration.
In every way.

327 bellamags  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:18:45pm

re: #318 Walter L. Newton

No noodles, to much carbs. I’d invite you over, but it would probably be spring before you could get here.

That is sweet. I would come over if I lived close enough. I know it is completely unhealthy but have you ever had southern chicken and dumplings? The real stuff, big thick dumplings that just melt in your mouth. Makes me salivate thinking about it.

328 CIA Reject  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:19:18pm

re: #311 FurryOldGuyJeans

Even a couple of obscure Jewish sects have been Antisemitic/Anti-Zionist. Never could figure that out.

The Jews are the Chosen people of G*d.

For me at least, it doesn’t take a whole lot of analysis to figure out who would want to attack the Chosen people of G*d.

Anti-semitism comes from the Evil one and he attempts to corrupt all kinds of human institutions to carry it out.

329 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:19:22pm

re: #319 jwb7605

What do you use? Rice?

Just low fat, deboned chicken, veggies of your choice, spices, some maryjane, works for me.

330 NY Nana  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:19:25pm

re: #64 Sharmuta

Same here, Sharm. I am still upset from seeing the video the other day…

This expresses why I am so hurt and angry about him. He does not represent Catholicism or any Catholic I have known in my entire life in any way, shape or form, but embarrasses it, sadly, IMHO.

331 bellamags  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:20:19pm

re: #322 buzzsawmonkey

“America’s chickensssssssssssssss….comin’ home to soup.”

—Jeremiah Wright, for Campbell’s

Buzz, I just don’t even know what to say anymore! I don’t know how you do it. LOL

332 albusteve  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:20:22pm

just got a call my uncle passed away tonight….he was with the 28th Infantry Div…stormed Normandy on D-Day…fought thru the hedges deep into France…Hurtgen Forrest and the Bulge…another brave American kid who laid it on the line back then…RIP you old dog

333 Sharmuta  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:20:32pm

Geek assistance needed-

I’m running some scans on my computer and there are a lot of IPs in the TCP/IP thingy- what does that mean? Should I delete them or are they helpful?

334 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:21:15pm

re: #327 bellamags

That is sweet. I would come over if I lived close enough. I know it is completely unhealthy but have you ever had southern chicken and dumplings? The real stuff, big thick dumplings that just melt in your mouth. Makes me salivate thinking about it.

Well sure. My mom was from Naw Arwlins, family came from France and Spain in the 1650’s. I’ve had a whole lot of southern cooking. And since I was born and raised (till I was 11) in Brooklyn NY, I’ve managed to eat just about every type of ethnic food there is.

335 bellamags  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:21:29pm

re: #329 Walter L. Newton

Just low fat, deboned chicken, veggies of your choice, spices, some maryjane, works for me.

Maryjane?

336 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:21:30pm

re: #322 buzzsawmonkey

“America’s chickensssssssssssssss….comin’ home to soup.”

—Jeremiah Wright, for Campbell’s

We’re sick of your anti-Progresso-vist political views.

337 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:22:07pm

re: #335 bellamags

Maryjane?

Oops (that part was a joke)

338 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:22:11pm

re: #308 jwb7605

That’s a tough call but I think the Vatican should chip in. A lot of these parishes declared bankruptcy so they could settle for less than the courts awarded.

339 bellamags  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:22:15pm

re: #332 albusteve

just got a call my uncle passed away tonight….he was with the 28th Infantry Div…stormed Normandy on D-Day…fought thru the hedges deep into France…Hurtgen Forrest and the Bulge…another brave American kid who laid it on the line back then…RIP you old dog

sorry to hear…

340 jwb7605  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:22:20pm

re: #329 Walter L. Newton

Just low fat, deboned chicken, veggies of your choice, spices, some maryjane, works for me.


You mean marjoram?
If not, that’s got to be expensive chicken soup!

341 calcajun  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:22:32pm

re: #8 goddessoftheclassroom

I’m very relieved that this clarification was made, and even happier that this dimwit has been “gagged.”

Gagging is too good for him.

342 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:23:02pm

re: #332 albusteve

just got a call my uncle passed away tonight….he was with the 28th Infantry Div…stormed Normandy on D-Day…fought thru the hedges deep into France…Hurtgen Forrest and the Bulge…another brave American kid who laid it on the line back then…RIP you old dog


May God Bless him and bring him peace..Prayers go out to your family tonight.
Our Hero’s keep passing into history…
Kind regards

343 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:23:20pm
344 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:23:25pm

re: #336 Occasional Reader

We’re sick of your anti-Progresso-vist political views.

Actually, I sometimes use Progresso soups as a “base” for a bigger pot of soup. I will throw one of the large cans in a pot, and then add broth, more veggies etc. It’s sort of like having a soup starter, a rue.

345 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:23:30pm

re: #314 bellamags

LOL. Chicken soup rocks. especially home made.

Chicken is OK but unicorn meat is teh delicious

346 jcm  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:23:43pm

re: #333 Sharmuta

Geek assistance needed-

I’m running some scans on my computer and there are a lot of IPs in the TCP/IP thingy- what does that mean? Should I delete them or are they helpful?

Is it a laptop or does it get moved around alot?

IP is the internet address you computer identify itself to the network/internet.
Is this that you’re looking at in the internet configuration control panel?

347 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:23:43pm

re: #315 buzzsawmonkey

OT:

Shepard Fairey, the Official Stalinist Portrait Artist of the Obama Regime, is a copyright infringer:

Article 1

Article 2

Theft we can believe in!

[trying this again]

Give the guy a break. His name is “Shepard Fairey”, after all.

348 Sharmuta  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:23:46pm

re: #332 albusteve

My condolences. There’s one more hero in Heaven.

349 calcajun  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:23:59pm

re: #332 albusteve

just got a call my uncle passed away tonight….he was with the 28th Infantry Div…stormed Normandy on D-Day…fought thru the hedges deep into France…Hurtgen Forrest and the Bulge…another brave American kid who laid it on the line back then…RIP you old dog

My condolences. More of those veterans are being lost to us every day. An oral record from them of that campaign would be invaluable. if only anyone would listen.

350 albusteve  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:24:11pm

re: #339 bellamags

re: #342 HoosierHoops

I miss those old guys…they were patriots eh?

351 jcm  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:24:20pm

re: #340 jwb7605

You mean marjoram?
If not, that’s got to be expensive chicken soup!

Chicken soup that buzzes dude!

352 J.S.  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:24:30pm

re: #344 Walter L. Newton

“a rue”. hmmm…do you mean roux?

353 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:24:32pm
354 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:24:37pm

re: #333 Sharmuta

Geek assistance needed-

I’m running some scans on my computer and there are a lot of IPs in the TCP/IP thingy- what does that mean? Should I delete them or are they helpful?

need more info Sharm..There is no IP thingie…..But glad to help friend

355 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:24:39pm

re: #316 Walter L. Newton

“Would you like a McWafer with your extra small grape juice?”
No
“That’ll be 10 Hail Mary’s, please drive up to the next widow”

356 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:24:42pm

re: #332 albusteve

just got a call my uncle passed away tonight….he was with the 28th Infantry Div…stormed Normandy on D-Day…fought thru the hedges deep into France…Hurtgen Forrest and the Bulge…another brave American kid who laid it on the line back then…RIP you old dog

Hey, a big hug, hold on tight, for you, from me.

357 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:25:21pm

re: #328 CIA Reject

The Jews are the Chosen people of G*d.

For me at least, it doesn’t take a whole lot of analysis to figure out who would want to attack the Chosen people of G*d.

Anti-semitism comes from the Evil one and he attempts to corrupt all kinds of human institutions to carry it out.

And I agree with you 100%.

Now, as to what I’ve read here tonight -

Walter, your hatred of Catholics is coming out loud and clear, very clear, in your condescending attitude and name-calling and your disgust seems to just overflow and apply to all of us, not just those of the clergy who I think have been affected by the forces of evil.

It is interesting to me that you claim to be a protector here, one who will loudly shout down anyone else you think might not like another group, but you feel you are absolved from that standard when it comes to Catholics.

358 bellamags  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:25:23pm

re: #347 Occasional Reader

[trying this again]

Give the guy a break. His name is “Shepard Fairey”, after all.

terrible

359 nyc redneck  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:25:49pm

i hate obama’s voice, it is so insincere.
he is such a self-conscious messiah.

360 Hobbes  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:26:03pm

re: #154 CIA Reject

Excommunication is something you do to yourself by choosing to believe something contrary to Church Doctrine, or not believe something that Doctrine requires you to believe.

The Pope simply points out that your (dis)belief is against Church Doctrine and if you persist in it you have hence have cut yourself off from the Church.

You are not a Catholic if you do not believe the teachings of the Catholic Church.

My paternal grandfather was excommunicated from the church many, many
years ago. He was an Irish Catholic and he married a protestant Norwegian girl. Thank goodness that rule changed.

361 bellamags  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:26:07pm

re: #350 albusteve

re: #342 HoosierHoops

I miss those old guys…they were patriots eh?

they don’t make em like that anymore.

362 Sharmuta  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:26:12pm

re: #346 jcm

It’s my desktop. And yes- it’s the configuration. There’s a couple dozen IPs there.

363 AlexRogan  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:26:27pm

re: #311 FurryOldGuyJeans

Even a couple of obscure Jewish sects have been Antisemitic/Anti-Zionist. Never could figure that out.

Self-hating Jews…not hard to figure out, with more than a few nowadays trying to kick Israel in the chops every chance they get.

364 J.S.  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:26:38pm

re: #332 albusteve

sorry to hear about that…(my condolences, albusteve)…

365 calcajun  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:26:45pm

re: #322 buzzsawmonkey

“America’s chickensssssssssssssss….comin’ home to soup.”

—Jeremiah Wright, for Campbell’s

You have no idea just how Vichyssoise your statement about Rev. Wright.

366 The Shadow Do  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:26:48pm

re: #332 albusteve

just got a call my uncle passed away tonight….he was with the 28th Infantry Div…stormed Normandy on D-Day…fought thru the hedges deep into France…Hurtgen Forrest and the Bulge…another brave American kid who laid it on the line back then…RIP you old dog

Big loss, so many heroes from that era, now so few.

367 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:26:54pm

re: #313 MikeySDCA

My canon law is weak. Is it grounds for excommunication being dumb in public?

I wouldn’t know….I am not Catholic. ;)

368 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:27:08pm

re: #352 J.S.

“a rue”. hmmm…do you mean roux?

Er, yes, my Spanish is a little rusty tonight, I mean French :)

369 jcm  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:27:10pm

re: #352 J.S.

“a rue”. hmmm…do you mean roux?

Walter rues bringing up roux.

370 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:27:13pm

re: #343 buzzsawmonkey

It’s the voices in my head. Just like Joan of Arc, except with less blood.

Well, this proves it. You’re Milla Jovovich. Can the magazine title be a coincidence? Hmmmm?

371 bellamags  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:27:34pm

re: #368 Walter L. Newton

Er, yes, my Spanish is a little rusty tonight, I mean French :)

you put too much maryjane in the soup.

372 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:27:38pm
373 jwb7605  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:27:49pm

re: #333 Sharmuta

Geek assistance needed-

I’m running some scans on my computer and there are a lot of IPs in the TCP/IP thingy- what does that mean? Should I delete them or are they helpful?

TCP = Transmission Control Protocol
IP = Internet Protocol


EXACTLY what does the scan say?

374 Killian Bundy  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:28:00pm

re: #355 Killgore Trout

“Would you like a McWafer with your extra small grape juice?”
No
“That’ll be 10 Hail Mary’s, please drive up to the next widow”

/but hey, why should Catholics be offended by that?

375 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:28:09pm

re: #338 Killgore Trout

That’s a tough call but I think the Vatican should chip in. A lot of these parishes declared bankruptcy so they could settle for less than the courts awarded.

The Vatican should have “kicked in”.
Most of these incidents would have been avoided had the church done what it should have done, and gotten rid of those priests instead of shuffling them around from one parish to the next.

Shameful.

376 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:28:21pm

re: #351 jcm

Chicken soup that buzzes dude!

Well that’s the next Law and Order..The cops come with a warrant for Walter’s soup.
/His Parrot called 9-11

377 UberInfidel67  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:28:24pm

re: #332 albusteve I am sorry for your loss : (

378 FloridaAnole  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:28:27pm

re: #345 Alouette

Chicken is OK but unicorn meat is teh delicious

She also provided a recipe for unicorn balls. But mine is a girl unicorn!

379 calcajun  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:28:30pm

re: #372 Iron Fist

Some Republicans would rather be “Bipartisan” than right on the issue. Yes, John McCain, I am looking at you.

Bipartisan = bipolar

380 ArmyWife  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:28:31pm

re: #327 bellamags

I am making that tomorrow. It’s the perfect weather for it!

381 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:28:55pm

re: #369 jcm

Walter rues bringing up roux.

Aussiemagpie could comfort him, by giving him a ‘roo.

382 albusteve  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:29:00pm

re: #356 Walter L. Newton

Hey, a big hug, hold on tight, for you, from me.

what the fuck has gone wrong with this country?…there will be hell to pay someday…it will not be in vain should it come to that…I swear

383 bellamags  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:29:16pm

re: #380 ArmyWife

I am making that tomorrow. It’s the perfect weather for it!

I would pay $20 for a serving.

384 ArmyWife  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:29:22pm

re: #332 albusteve

I am so sorry to hear of your loss. What a man he must have been!

385 calcajun  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:29:29pm

re: #369 jcm

Ah, Et tu fey?

386 lobo91  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:29:36pm

re: #353 Iron Fist

Bingo.

387 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:30:24pm

re: #333 Sharmuta

Geek assistance needed-

I’m running some scans on my computer and there are a lot of IPs in the TCP/IP thingy- what does that mean? Should I delete them or are they helpful?

I’mmmm gonna have to ask you to put a cover on your TCP Reports from now on. Did you not get the memo? I’llll just go ahead and get another copy of that memo sent to you.

388 Killgore Trout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:30:29pm

re: #375 reine.de.tout

I think so too. There was even a court case a few years ago to try to get the vatican involved but it didn’t pass legal muster.

389 calcajun  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:30:37pm

re: #381 Occasional Reader

Aussiemagpie could comfort him, by giving him a ‘roo.

Before he gives anything away, he should take stock of his situation.

390 Hobbes  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:30:57pm

re: #229 spirochete

Is there a transcript of the interview floating around anywhere? I tried looking earlier and couldn’t get anything.

Sorry, I think only video.
There are snippets but I haven’t seen it’s full context.

391 albusteve  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:30:58pm

re: #377 UberInfidel67

I am sorry for your loss : (


It’s not about me, it’s about us….

392 NY Nana  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:31:04pm

re: #332 albusteve

May he rest in peace. He is a true hero.

393 Sharmuta  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:31:05pm

re: #373 jwb7605

It says nothing about them- they’re just listed.

394 Occasional Reader  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:31:43pm

re: #372 Iron Fist

Some Republicans would rather be “Bipartisan” than right on the issue. Yes, John McCain, I am looking at you.

He’s not Bipartisan, he’s just Bipartisancurious.

395 Inquisitive  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:32:00pm

re: #338 Killgore Trout

That’s a tough call but I think the Vatican should chip in. A lot of these parishes declared bankruptcy so they could settle for less than the courts awarded.


Issen on the news last night where there is some of these parishes that are holding their own services….won’t give the building up…mad because they are going to be sold to pay off debts due on the settlements….one had the police called to have the patrons removed….sad….so very sad……

396 jwb7605  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:32:24pm

re: #393 Sharmuta

It says nothing about them- they’re just listed.

Listed where? What Virus Scanner are you using?
Does it say anything about cookies, etc?

397 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:32:25pm

I wiki’ed the poor guy. It appears that his real name is Shepard Fairey—it’s not something he took on to be cool.

In other words, he had to go all the way through Junior High with that name. Whoa.

398 CIA Reject  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:32:28pm

re: #357 reine.de.tout

Thanks Reine- I’m not really feeling up to answering all the Jack Chick bullsh*t tonite and I’m not in the mood for being baited either.

399 Sharmuta  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:33:04pm

re: #396 jwb7605

MaxSecure, and I deleted the cookies already.

400 UberInfidel67  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:33:46pm

re: #391 albusteve
True. I am always saddened that I didn’t learn more about my Grandfather’s time in the Army. From what I gathered though, he had something to do with the Burma Road? Something like that. Damn Oldtimers took that opportunity away from me.

401 albusteve  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:33:52pm

re: #392 NY Nana

May he rest in peace. He is a true hero.

we really need to stay focused and remember…I am almost irrationally proud of our people in the ME….tow the line

402 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:34:25pm

re: #357 reine.de.tout

And I agree with you 100%.

Now, as to what I’ve read here tonight -

Walter, your hatred of Catholics is coming out loud and clear, very clear, in your condescending attitude and name-calling and your disgust seems to just overflow and apply to all of us, not just those of the clergy who I think have been affected by the forces of evil.

It is interesting to me that you claim to be a protector here, one who will loudly shout down anyone else you think might not like another group, but you feel you are absolved from that standard when it comes to Catholics.

Reine - I don’t hate catholics, but using the information I have on this priest, I hate him. And I hate the fact that the church will give him certain leeway, I wouldn’t have anything to do with him. As a group, I don’t think you would find catholics all in his favor, so, no, I am not grouping all catholics into my comments. If that is the way you took it, then I apologize, that was not my intent.

Now, there are some people here that have made humorous comments about the church. It doesn’t mean I hate the catholic church just because I find the comments funny.

Hell, I see all kinds of jabs, jokes, and comments made, about religion and sects, here.

403 FloridaAnole  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:34:34pm

re: #332 albusteve

I’m sorry to hear of your uncle’s passing; so few of the great people from his generation are left now.

404 jwb7605  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:34:52pm

re: #399 Sharmuta

MaxSecure, and I deleted the cookies already.

I don’t think I’d worry about it, unless the scanner thinks they are dangerous.

405 BlueCanuck  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:34:59pm

re: #345 Alouette

Chicken is OK but unicorn meat is teh delicious

Yeah, but I prefer mine roasted over an open fire. :)

406 CIA Reject  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:35:46pm

re: #360 Hobbes

My paternal grandfather was excommunicated from the church many, many
years ago. He was an Irish Catholic and he married a protestant Norwegian girl. Thank goodness that rule changed.

I’m not sure what the old rules were, but I know things were done that hurt a lot of families. My paternal grandfather was a Lutheran and as a result my father was the victim of some things that were insensitive to say the least.

407 notutopia  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:35:49pm

re: #397 EmmmieG

I wiki’ed the poor guy. It appears that his real name is Shepard Fairey—it’s not something he took on to be cool.

In other words, he had to go all the way through Junior High with that name. Whoa.

Here’s his vid on making the HOPE graphic.
willworkforsoup.wordpress.com

408 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:36:35pm

re: #284 Walter L. Newton

Most major Christians religions are the CAUSE of anti-semitism.

Why do you say that?

409 Cato the Elder  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:36:54pm

Thank God for this, and good on you, SSPX and Vatican!

I’m currently readying an excerpt from a book I helped translate (which came up today for very different reasons on an earlier thread) about the genocidal legal system behind Nazi atrocities. If anyone takes the time to look at it, it forever demolishes any shred of a defense that people at the highest levels of Hitler’s regime “didn’t know what was being done in their name”, or any nonsense of that kind.

Unfortunately I have to retype it by hand because Amazon won’t let you copy from their excerpts, but if anyone wants to read the page in question now, just click on the book link, enter the word “alcoholism” in the “Search” feature, and select the reference to page 191. This book deals with the treatment of all “non-Germans” or “foreign peoples” (German Fremdvölkische), so it also puts to rest the idea that the Nazis were partial in their abuse of anyone not a member of the Herrenvolk. Their first targets were of course Jews, Communists, gays, Gypsies, the mentally defective and others, but their ultimate goal was to reduce all the people in the conquered Eastern territories to the status of helots or slaves and then gradually eliminate anyone who wasn’t useful in that role. It was a well-thought-out, entirely rational (from their standpoint) and most of all completely legally defined and codified program of inhumanity.

The book is over one thousand pages long, and unfortunately costs a small fortune, but anyone here interested in reading it can probably get it from a good library or inter-library loan.

As for Williamson, I’d like to punish him by making him read it out loud, or, if he refused, forcing him to eat it, page by page.

410 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:36:59pm

re: #398 CIA Reject

Thanks Reine- I’m not really feeling up to answering all the Jack Chick bullsh*t tonite and I’m not in the mood for being baited either.

Me either.

411 UberInfidel67  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:37:41pm

re: #406 CIA Reject
Your comment got me wondering now. I wonder if there was any form of disconnect in my family from my Grandpap being a German Lutheran and my Grandma being a Croatian Catholic. You got me wondering. I thank you….seriously.

412 Sharmuta  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:37:53pm

re: #404 jwb7605

But if I wanted to delete them, that should be okay too?

413 joan  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:38:04pm

re: #210 jcm

But buggering priests get official cover? The church isn’t doing well in couple areas.
Please no offense meant to my Catholic friends, by why isn’t there more of an uproar from the pews?

1) Plenty of uproar, rage, bankruptcy and reformation—buggering priests do not get official cover any more, extensive and rigorous processes are in place throughout parishes to protect children, the police are called. So, what is the percentage of public school teachers who molest?

2) Why weren’t the terrorists in Northern Ireland excommunicated for their activities? Why aren’t the pro-choice pols who actively promote abortion, who want tax dollars to pay for late-term abortions excommunicated? Why aren’t drunkards and wife beaters excommunicated? Why aren’t Communists excommunicated? Excommunication is actually a religious sanction, it is a (weird) form of protection in the sense that “who receives this sacrament unworthily eats damnation unto himself.”

Enough from me. Like anyone actually wants to know this stuff.

Lots of pious Schadenfreud from various quarters anytime the Catholic faith is mentioned. Come on, it isn’t like anyone actually wants to be persuaded of anything good.

My stance is that Karma’s a bitch. Antisemitism was nursed like a viper in the bosom of the Faith, and it is going to take a little bit longer than gee-whiz 50 whole years to heal the terrible damage wrought by it.

Maybe, when the persecution, enslavement, murder of Catholics intensifies, as it will, given the tide of history—well what can I say—our enemies will rejoice, and we’ll share the cup of suffering. “Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.”

Cheers. Oh, and in fact, I thank the Creator for allowing me to find my way to the treasures, the beauty, the love that is the Catholic Church. Sue me.

414 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:38:06pm

re: #399 Sharmuta

MaxSecure, and I deleted the cookies already.

You must be reading a firewall log? IP’s per se offer no danger..We connect with hundreds a day.It’s just an address..
One thing to keep an eye out for is port security.. Allow only internet access on port 80 or a secure port like 443. You can monitor that port..
Somebody connects on a port like 4400 and you don’t know it? Dead meat.

415 jwb7605  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:38:43pm

re: #406 CIA Reject

I’m not sure what the old rules were, but I know things were done that hurt a lot of families. My paternal grandfather was a Lutheran and as a result my father was the victim of some things that were insensitive to say the least.

My father was a (Missouri Synod) Lutheran (my mom made him switch from Presbyterian). He got excommunicated for showing up to church too infrequently. At the time, he drove a newspaper truck route that started at 11 P.M. and ended about 6 A.M.

I couldn’t believe they would do that, so I told the Pastor to consider me excommunicated, too. I’d just gotten out of the service.

416 jwb7605  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:39:49pm

re: #412 Sharmuta

But if I wanted to delete them, that should be okay too?

My guess is yes. After deleting cookies, you’ll probably have to re-enter passwords and things for most of your sites (including this one).

417 Hobbes  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:40:28pm

re: #332 albusteve

just got a call my uncle passed away tonight….he was with the 28th Infantry Div…stormed Normandy on D-Day…fought thru the hedges deep into France…Hurtgen Forrest and the Bulge…another brave American kid who laid it on the line back then…RIP you old dog

My sympathy to you and your family. Sigh, another American hero gone.

418 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:40:34pm

re: #408 Dark_Falcon

Why do you say that?

Read Paul, read Luther, read the Inquestition, read pre-vatican II bulls and church doctrines.

That’s a start. Really, there is so much on this subject, it’s plain history, well documented, so on, so on, so…

419 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:41:51pm
420 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:42:49pm
421 HoosierHoops  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:43:27pm

re: #419 ploome hineni

hi charming.:)

the shocking thing about this whole issue, is how a fucktard like this Williamson ever got to be a Bishop

and was allowed to influence people

until this fucktard was exposed

he was perfectly acceptable……except that he didn;t like Vatican 2

because, among other things, Vatican2 asserted that not all Jews for all time were responsible for killing

g o d

/or some such psychotic idea

He could be Mel Gibson’s Uncle or something…

422 Petra  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:43:27pm

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has repeatedly threatened to wipe Israel off the map.
Now it turns out he’s Jewish.
gatewaypundit.blogspot.com

Is he Jewish?

423 [deleted]  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:44:23pm
424 CIA Reject  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:44:27pm

re: #411 UberInfidel67

You’re welcome! I don’t know what I said, but I’m glad that it helps.

425 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:47:35pm

re: #402 Walter L. Newton

Reine - I don’t hate catholics, but using the information I have on this priest, I hate him. And I hate the fact that the church will give him certain leeway, I wouldn’t have anything to do with him. As a group, I don’t think you would find catholics all in his favor, so, no, I am not grouping all catholics into my comments. If that is the way you took it, then I apologize, that was not my intent.

Now, there are some people here that have made humorous comments about the church. It doesn’t mean I hate the catholic church just because I find the comments funny.

Hell, I see all kinds of jabs, jokes, and comments made, about religion and sects, here.

I see all sorts of jabs jokes etc., too, Walter, and make a few of my own.

This Williamson is a thug, not fit for the priesthood, and certainly unfit to have any sort of a platform from which to speak.

He is a holocaust denier, and a member of a group which has written unspeakably vile things about Jews.

But churches, not just the Catholic church, allow sinners into church, in the hope that the teachings of the faith will get through and the person will come to repent of his sins. That’s sort of what churches do.

This man has been “invited” back to attend Mass and receive communion. It is now up to him to make himself fit for it. If he does not, then God will deal with him.

I belong to a large parish where there are all sorts of people who I don’t like, who I think do not live according to good morals, and I simply avoid those people. But they are welcome to come to church, which is where they should be!

Your contention that we should not belong to a “group” because Williamson belongs to the same group is just unrealistic. We belong to the group because the Mass is how we celebrate our relationship with God, it has nothing to do with our relationship with Williamson.

I will simply say that as this thread wore on, your jabs and jokes became more and more all-encompassing, perhaps it is the nature of how internet communication works (type hit enter poof it’s posted). If you don’t mean to include all of us in what you say, I beg you to just recheck your words before you hit “post”.

426 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:48:36pm

re: #413 joan

1) Plenty of uproar, rage, bankruptcy and reformation—buggering priests do not get official cover any more, extensive and rigorous processes are in place throughout parishes to protect children, the police are called. So, what is the percentage of public school teachers who molest?

2) Why weren’t the terrorists in Northern Ireland excommunicated for their activities? Why aren’t the pro-choice pols who actively promote abortion, who want tax dollars to pay for late-term abortions excommunicated? Why aren’t drunkards and wife beaters excommunicated? Why aren’t Communists excommunicated? Excommunication is actually a religious sanction, it is a (weird) form of protection in the sense that “who receives this sacrament unworthily eats damnation unto himself.”

Enough from me. Like anyone actually wants to know this stuff.

Lots of pious Schadenfreud from various quarters anytime the Catholic faith is mentioned. Come on, it isn’t like anyone actually wants to be persuaded of anything good.

My stance is that Karma’s a bitch. Antisemitism was nursed like a viper in the bosom of the Faith, and it is going to take a little bit longer than gee-whiz 50 whole years to heal the terrible damage wrought by it.

Maybe, when the persecution, enslavement, murder of Catholics intensifies, as it will, given the tide of history—well what can I say—our enemies will rejoice, and we’ll share the cup of suffering. “Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind.”

Cheers. Oh, and in fact, I thank the Creator for allowing me to find my way to the treasures, the beauty, the love that is the Catholic Church. Sue me.

favorited!

427 CIA Reject  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:52:15pm

re: #418 Walter L. Newton

Read Paul, read Luther, read the Inquestition, read pre-vatican II bulls and church doctrines.

That’s a start. Really, there is so much on this subject, it’s plain history, well documented, so on, so on, so…

Please give me a reference to an official Church teaching that refutes this:

Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel’s spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.

Because that is the official teaching of the Catholic Church regarding anti-Semitism, and if you have evidence of a teaching that contravenes it I would like to know about it.

428 formercorpsman  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:56:19pm

re: #332 albusteve

You have my condolences Steve. Another soul of the best generation departed.

429 NY Nana  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:58:15pm

re: #409 Cato the Elder

As for Williamson, I’d like to punish him by making him read it out loud, or, if he refused, forcing him to eat it, page by page.

It has hurt and still does. I wonder if he has ever been faced with the reality of actual photos and videos of the reality of the camps, and the gassings.

Since he is a ‘Troofer’, reality does not seem to be his strong suit.

The following video is brutal…if you would be offended at the scenes from the camps, please do not watch. I wish someone could send him these sort of things, and make him watch. I honestly wonder what he would say, or if he would understand.

All I can do when I see anything like this is wonder if a family member is shown…I can get through them because I want to try and understand how and why this could happen. I still cannot answer that. And now we see the cult of islam trying to kill all the Jews….they so desperately want to finish *itler’s (may his name and memory be obliterated).

NEVER FORGET! NEVER FORGIVE!

See you all on another thread…this is getting to me. I have lived with knowing about the Shoah since I was about 8 or 9….but I was so blessed to be born in the USA!

430 CIA Reject  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:58:41pm

re: #425 reine.de.tout

Well said! I “favorited” that one!

431 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:59:00pm

re: #430 CIA Reject

Well said! I “favorited” that one!

merci!

432 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 6:59:30pm

re: #427 CIA Reject

Please give me a reference to an official Church teaching that refutes this:

Furthermore, in her rejection of every persecution against any man, the Church, mindful of the patrimony she shares with the Jews and moved not by political reasons but by the Gospel’s spiritual love, decries hatred, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism, directed against Jews at any time and by anyone.

Because that is the official teaching of the Catholic Church regarding anti-Semitism, and if you have evidence of a teaching that contravenes it I would like to know about it.

I was talking about the general anti-semitism that has infected most of the christian sects through the ages.

Hell, at vatican two, they came out with a revision of policy that basically said that it was only “some” of the Jews that killed Christ, before that it was “all Jews” were responsible.

Look it up.

433 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:00:47pm

re: #432 Walter L. Newton

I was talking about the general anti-semitism that has infected most of the christian sects through the ages.

Hell, at vatican two, they came out with a revision of policy that basically said that it was only “some” of the Jews that killed Christ, before that it was “all Jews” were responsible.

Look it up.

Well, what they taught me in catechism was that my sins killed Christ.

434 jcm  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:01:10pm

re: #413 joan

Wonderful response. Thank you.

435 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:01:38pm

re: #427 CIA Reject

historicaltextarchive.com

here, one example, and I was talking about christian sects in general, they have all contributed to Jew hatred through the course of history.

“Loving” Jews, by Christians, is really a modern idea.

436 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:01:49pm

re: #433 reine.de.tout

Well, what they taught me in catechism was that my sins killed Christ.

historicaltextarchive.com

437 darkster2400  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:01:51pm

re: #332 albusteve

I am very sorry to hear of your loss - we owe such a huge debt of gratitude to all “our” veterans (I live in Canada, and a mighty hat tip to the Canadian vets as well as to all the wonderful American vets) - I just hope that our current politicians don’t throw away what they earned in blood.

May your uncle rest in peace.

438 CIA Reject  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:03:33pm

re: #432 Walter L. Newton

I was talking about the general anti-semitism that has infected most of the christian sects through the ages.

Hell, at vatican two, they came out with a revision of policy that basically said that it was only “some” of the Jews that killed Christ, before that it was “all Jews” were responsible.

Look it up.

Once again- you are making the accusations so I expect you to do the research to back them up.

What I have cited is the official position of the Catholic Church on anti-Semitism. If that does not fit your prejudices well I’m sorry, but it is the official Church teaching and you have done nothing to show that the Church teaches any other way on the subject.

439 formercorpsman  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:06:08pm

re: #422 Petra

Could you imagine?

440 CIA Reject  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:06:17pm

re: #435 Walter L. Newton

[Link: historicaltextarchive.com…]

here, one example, and I was talking about christian sects in general, they have all contributed to Jew hatred through the course of history.

“Loving” Jews, by Christians, is really a modern idea.

I am not discussing the attitudes of all of Christianity towards the Jews, I am discussing the teachings of the Catholic Church regarding anti-Semitism which is more germane to this particular thread.

I’m sorry if I was unclear on that.

441 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:09:26pm

re: #438 CIA Reject

Once again- you are making the accusations so I expect you to do the research to back them up.

What I have cited is the official position of the Catholic Church on anti-Semitism. If that does not fit your prejudices well I’m sorry, but it is the official Church teaching and you have done nothing to show that the Church teaches any other way on the subject.

And you know that my comment were about the HISTORY of anti-semitism. Christian churches, Catholic and otherwise, were very responsible for almost 2000 years of Jew hatred. That’s fact.

It wasn’t until Vatican Two that the Catholic Church decided to consider that it wasn’t ALL Jews fault that Christ was killed. The document that make that clarification was the Nostra Aetate and it was the most contraversial document to come out of Vatican Two.

And for a general history of Jew hatred by organized religion see…

en.wikipedia.org

442 CIA Reject  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:18:53pm

re: #441 Walter L. Newton

And you know that my comment were about the HISTORY of anti-semitism. Christian churches, Catholic and otherwise, were very responsible for almost 2000 years of Jew hatred. That’s fact.

It wasn’t until Vatican Two that the Catholic Church decided to consider that it wasn’t ALL Jews fault that Christ was killed. The document that make that clarification was the Nostra Aetate and it was the most contraversial document to come out of Vatican Two.

And for a general history of Jew hatred by organized religion see…

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

By “Churches” you refer to people, and I absolutely agree with you that there have been far too many people over the years who, for whatever reason, have fostered a hatred of Jewish people.

But, you also quite correctly point out that Catholic DOCTRINE which was clarified (not promulgated) in Nostra Aetate solidly condemns anti-Semitism.

My whole point here is that anti-Semitism is in no way condoned byh Catholic DOCTRINE- in fact quite the reverse is true.

It annoys me no end when I see people (and I do not think you were consciously doing this) attempt to use the misdeeds of the Catholic faithful or Catholic clergy to invalidate Church doctrine.

It is a practice akin to attempting to persuade someone that because there are corrupt cops one need not obey the law.

And, because that practice seeks to dissuade people from the truth I believe that it is inspired by Evil.

443 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:35:07pm

re: #442 CIA Reject

My whole point here is that anti-Semitism is in no way condoned byh Catholic DOCTRINE- in fact quite the reverse is true.

You wanna bet…

You didn’t read my link, did you… en.wikipedia.org How much doctrine do you need? Do I have to clip and paste every example for you, or do you think you can work this out for yourself?

444 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:35:59pm

re: #442 CIA Reject

rom 315 CE, (when the Roman Empire extended freedom of religion to Christians) to 395 (when Christianity had become the state religion) Christians were able to initiate programs of discrimination and oppression against Jews. Some early examples were:

306 CE: The church Synod of Elvira banned marriages, sexual intercourse and community contacts between Christians and Jews.
315: Constantine’s Edict of Milan terminated many Jewish rights.
325: The Council of Nicea decided to separate the celebration of Easter from the Jewish Passover. They stated: “let us have nothing in common with this odious people…”
337: The marriage of a Jewish man to a Christian woman ecame punishable by death.
339: Conversion to Judaism became a criminal offense.
367 - 376: St. Hilary of Poitiers referred to Jews as a perverse people who God has cursed forever. St. Ephroem referred to synagogues as brothels.
379-395: Emperor Theodosius the Great permitted the destruction of synagogues if it served a religious purpose.
380: The Bishop of Milan initiated the destruction of a synagogue, which he referred to as “an act pleasing to God.”

445 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:36:15pm

re: #442 CIA Reject

rom 315 CE, (when the Roman Empire extended freedom of religion to Christians) to 395 (when Christianity had become the state religion) Christians were able to initiate programs of discrimination and oppression against Jews. Some early examples were:

306 CE: The church Synod of Elvira banned marriages, sexual intercourse and community contacts between Christians and Jews.
315: Constantine’s Edict of Milan terminated many Jewish rights.
325: The Council of Nicea decided to separate the celebration of Easter from the Jewish Passover. They stated: “let us have nothing in common with this odious people…”
337: The marriage of a Jewish man to a Christian woman ecame punishable by death.
339: Conversion to Judaism became a criminal offense.
367 - 376: St. Hilary of Poitiers referred to Jews as a perverse people who God has cursed forever. St. Ephroem referred to synagogues as brothels.
379-395: Emperor Theodosius the Great permitted the destruction of synagogues if it served a religious purpose.
380: The Bishop of Milan initiated the destruction of a synagogue, which he referred to as “an act pleasing to God.”

446 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:36:45pm

re: #442 CIA Reject


1806: A French Jesuit Priest, Abbe Barruel, had written a treatise blaming the Masonic Order for the French Revolution. He later issued a letter alleging that Jews, not the Masons were the guilty party. Beliefs in an international Jewish conspiracy to control the world came from this source; they continue today.
1846 - 1878: Pope Pius IX restored all of the previous restrictions against the Jews within the Vatican state. All Jews under Papal control were confined to Rome’s ghetto - the last one in Europe until the Nazis recreated ghettos in the 1930s. Pius IX was beatified in the year 2000 — the last step before sainthood.
1881: The assassination of Alexander II of Russia was incorrectly blamed on Jews. About 200 individual pogroms against the Jews followed. (“Pogrom” is a Russian word meaning “devastation” or “riot.”)
1894: French Captain Alfred Dreyfus was framed by antisemitic officers, found guilty and was given a life sentence. The church, government and army united to suppress the truth. Ten years later, he was declared totally innocent. The Dreyfus Affair became world-wide news for years.
1903+: Anti-Jewish pogroms continued in Russia, causing hundreds of thousands of deaths during the first two decades of the 20th century.
1905: The Russian secret police wrote a piece of fiction, the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion.” A Russian Orthodox priest, Sergius Nilus, published them publicly in 1905. It was promoted as the record of “secret rabbinical conferences whose aim was to subjugate and exterminate the Christians.” The forgeries are still being circulated. They appear from time to time in Muslim media. Wal-Mart stocked them in their online bookstore until 2004-SEP.
1930s: Some American clergy used their their radio programs to attack Jews. Father Charles E Coughlin was one of the best known. “In the 1930’s, radio audiences heard him rail against the threat of Jews to America’s economy and defend Hitler’s treatment of Jews as justified in the fight against communism.” 3
1933: Hitler becomes the chancellor of Germany.
1936: The Nazi government passed the anti-Jewish Nuremberg Laws, which paralleled earlier Church laws against Jews.
1936: Cardinal Hloud of Poland urged Catholics to boycott Jewish businesses.
1938: Hitler brought back various century-old church regulations, ordering all Jews to wear a yellow Star of David as identification.
1940: The Nazis confined Jews to inner-city ghettos, another technique of the church.
1941 to 1945: The Nazi Holocaust resulted in the execution of over 6 million Jews, a similar number of non-Jews — such as Soviet prisoners of war, Polish intellectuals — about a half million Roma (Gypsies). Also killed were a few thousand Jehovah’s Witnesses and an unknown number of homosexuals. Of these victims, only the Jews and Roma were marked for total annihilation. 4

447 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:37:18pm

re: #442 CIA Reject

Take these four posts, twice a day and call me in the morning.

448 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:41:28pm

re: #433 reine.de.tout

Hi reine, I’ll be looking for the cookbook. Should be interesting.

However I have a question after the recent topics. I realized that I don’t know something simple.

What makes one a Catholic, besides the obvious of going to a Catholic church, or being born to it? These factors apply to any religion.

Is there a special ritual, saying some words etc.?

I know that Jews and Muslims have that, although the latter is pretty lax (I knew some Brits in the M.E. years ago who converted one afternoon, so they could live with their girlfriends as married Muslims without being thrown in jail….but that’s another story)

449 CIA Reject  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:45:12pm

re: #443 Walter L. Newton

re: #444 Walter L. Newton

re: #445 Walter L. Newton

re: #446 Walter L. Newton

Walter, I read your posts, and I do not deny that Christians, including some Catholics, have been guilty of anti-Semetism. I’ve also read the Catechism of the Catholic Church and nowhere in that document have I found anything that legitimizes the practice.

re: #447 Walter L. Newton

Take these four posts, twice a day and call me in the morning.

Heh…

450 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:51:49pm

re: #449 CIA Reject

re: #444 Walter L. Newton

re: #445 Walter L. Newton

re: #446 Walter L. Newton

Walter, I read your posts, and I do not deny that Christians, including some Catholics, have been guilty of anti-Semetism. I’ve also read the Catechism of the Catholic Church and nowhere in that document have I found anything that legitimizes the practice.

re: #447 Walter L. Newton

Heh…

My final word on this. No, there is no official, written doctrine produced by the Catholic church that approves of anti-Semitism.

My comments were about the whole history of the Christian religion and how it’s practices lead up to the anti-Semitism we see, and saw in the holocaust.

My posts above DO contain references to documents, written by church fathers, leaders, teachers etc, that set the foundation for anti-Semitism, and it WAS official in the past.

Christianity is almost 100 percent responsible for the history anti-Semitism, so much more so in the Western world.

Fine’.

451 sultan_knish  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:54:04pm

re: #422 Petra

To be fair, in the Middle East or Russia, calling someone a Jew is a standard political attack,

452 CIA Reject  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:56:38pm

re: #450 Walter L. Newton

My final word on this. No, there is no official, written doctrine produced by the Catholic church that approves of anti-Semitism.

My comments were about the whole history of the Christian religion and how it’s practices lead up to the anti-Semitism we see, and saw in the holocaust.

My posts above DO contain references to documents, written by church fathers, leaders, teachers etc, that set the foundation for anti-Semitism, and it WAS official in the past.

Christianity is almost 100 percent responsible for the history anti-Semitism, so much more so in the Western world.

Fine’.

I think we are in violent agreement with the historical fact of the contribution of Christians to the practice of anti-Semitism.

We differ in that you approach the subject from the point of view of history while I approach it from the point of view of Church Doctrine.

Peace…

453 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 7:57:03pm

re: #450 Walter L. Newton

M

Christianity is almost 100 percent responsible for the history anti-Semitism, so much more so in the Western world.

Strange comment. Christianity is 100% responsible for anti semitism in the western word, true.

What of in the rest of the world?

454 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 8:01:06pm

re: #452 CIA Reject

We differ in that you approach the subject from the point of view of history while I approach it from the point of view of Church Doctrine.

Peace…

Isn’t history what has happened, whereas doctrine is what should happen?

455 CIA Reject  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 8:02:22pm

re: #454 Naso Tang

Isn’t history what has happened, whereas doctrine is what should happen?

I hadn’t though of it that way, but yes- that is an excellent way of presenting it.

456 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 8:04:22pm

re: #453 Naso Tang

Strange comment. Christianity is 100% responsible for anti semitism in the western word, true.

What of in the rest of the world?

Between early and modern Islam and early Christianity, that has spread Jew hatred far and wide.

No, there are not too many Christian sects now a days that in any way promulgate, in writings or teaching, anti-semitism (although there are a few Covenant styled sects that do actively teach white supremacy).

But, if you look at my 4 clipped and pasted comments above, you will see the foundation that was OFFICIALLY set by the early church, a foundation of anti-semitism that has infiltrated down through the ages.

An acceptance by Christians of Jews is really a mostly modern practice.

This is not something strange, it’s plain fact, well known history, facts that have been available for a very long time.

457 joecitizen  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 8:04:30pm

re: #332 albusteve

just got a call my uncle passed away tonight….he was with the 28th Infantry Div…stormed Normandy on D-Day…fought thru the hedges deep into France…Hurtgen Forrest and the Bulge…another brave American kid who laid it on the line back then…RIP you old dog

I know you might miss this by now but, I’m sorry for your loss…those cats were some tough sonsabitches…your loss, in a sense, is America’s loss.

458 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 8:08:36pm

re: #454 Naso Tang

Isn’t history what has happened, whereas doctrine is what should happen?

Nicely put, but you can’t get around that in the early church, it was OFFICIAL, doctrine, stated and set down by church fathers and teachers and thinkers. The history simply backs the doctrine up.

459 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 8:18:58pm

Of course that has happened, I only dispute that the Muslims and others needed Christians to teach them.

Any minority that is overly successful is discriminated against. What kind of life would atheists lead if they were the only ones who didn’t wear their religious “status” on their sleeves?

460 Ojoe  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 8:24:40pm

re: #406 CIA Reject

In San Francisco My Irish Granny married my Norsk Grandpa & he was Lutheran but he concerted to Catholic and they moved to the Gold Country & then he went fishing with my dad and Uncle on Sundays anyway, with his brother in law who was a Jack Mormon, and nobody cared because this is the great country of America, where there is freedom and no official religion.

I will not live anywhere else.

Oh and I think Islam sucks.

461 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 8:28:12pm

re: #448 Naso Tang

Hi reine, I’ll be looking for the cookbook. Should be interesting.

However I have a question after the recent topics. I realized that I don’t know something simple.

What makes one a Catholic, besides the obvious of going to a Catholic church, or being born to it? These factors apply to any religion.

Is there a special ritual, saying some words etc.?

I know that Jews and Muslims have that, although the latter is pretty lax (I knew some Brits in the M.E. years ago who converted one afternoon, so they could live with their girlfriends as married Muslims without being thrown in jail….but that’s another story)

NASO, I hope you come back and check, I’m late getting back here.

For me, I was baptized in the Catholic church when I was a baby; then when I started school, each school day included instruction in the Catholic catechism. Then when I was in 6th grade, we all went through a process of “confirmation” in which we “confirmed” for ourselves the baptismal vows our parents and god-parents took on our behalf when we were babies.

So I was a Catholic from day 1 of my life, since my parents intended (and carried through with) a Catholic baptism for me from before I was born.

Older people who were not baptized into the Catholic church, go through an education about the Catholic faith, in my parish it’s a couple of hours a week for about a year, and if they decide they wish to become a Catholic, they go through a rite of initiation upon completion of their study. If they have never been baptized in any church, this will include baptism.

462 JacksonTn  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 8:30:15pm

re: #461 reine.de.tout

NASO, I hope you come back and check, I’m late getting back here.

For me, I was baptized in the Catholic church when I was a baby; then when I started school, each school day included instruction in the Catholic catechism. Then when I was in 6th grade, we all went through a process of “confirmation” in which we “confirmed” for ourselves the baptismal vows our parents and god-parents took on our behalf when we were babies.

So I was a Catholic from day 1 of my life, since my parents intended (and carried through with) a Catholic baptism for me from before I was born.

Older people who were not baptized into the Catholic church, go through an education about the Catholic faith, in my parish it’s a couple of hours a week for about a year, and if they decide they wish to become a Catholic, they go through a rite of initiation upon completion of their study. If they have never been baptized in any church, this will include baptism.

Reine …I was glad you came back and answered him …I am not as good as you explaining things and I wanted him to get an answer …

463 Ojoe  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 8:31:15pm

re: #460 Ojoe

“concerted” = “converted”,

but you probably read it that way anyhow.


Good night lizards.

464 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 8:32:18pm

re: #462 JacksonTn

Reine …I was glad you came back and answered him …I am not as good as you explaining things and I wanted him to get an answer …

Jax - you explain things just fine!

465 fatdaddy  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 8:34:56pm

Bernard Fellay is very kind man. I am glad he did this and am sure if he was aware of this situation earlier he would have dealt with it in the same manner. Catholics are not anti-Semite or Holocaust deniers, forgiving sinners is a fundamental of the Christian faith.

466 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 8:36:22pm

re: #461 reine.de.tout

Thanks. I wasn’t sure if it was a specific ritual or not. Sounds more like a knowledge test, which of course makes sense, but I presume that someone could learn, or be self taugh in much less than a year if they chose to?

The baptism however must be in a Catholic church? A Lutheran baptism isn’t any good, for example?

467 Achilles Tang  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 8:44:26pm

I’ll check tomorrow, but I’ve got to hit the sack. Thanks for the reply.

Nite

468 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 8:56:10pm

re: #466 Naso Tang

Thanks. I wasn’t sure if it was a specific ritual or not. Sounds more like a knowledge test, which of course makes sense, but I presume that someone could learn, or be self taugh in much less than a year if they chose to?

The baptism however must be in a Catholic church? A Lutheran baptism isn’t any good, for example?

Naso -
No, it isn’t self-taught. And there aren’t any “tests”. There are people who have been trained to teach the Catholic faith, and there are classes that people must attend, and they are designed to cover certain topics in the “Catholic” way, and it takes about a year. It’s to ensure that people have a full understanding of what Catholicism is, what the faith is all about.

A person who is baptized in another Christian faith and then converts to Catholicism does not need to be baptized again. But they do go through the education process, and there is usually a special mass where they are accepted fully and receive their first communion.

People who have never been baptized in any faith must be baptized.

Naso, from your questions I get the feeling that you have not been exposed to any religious experience in your life. Your question about being able to be “self-taught” was just really odd, at least to me - not in a bad way, just strange, I would never be able to think a person could “self-teach” Christian or Jewish faith. Most religions are going to require some sort of instruction in the faith by a person trained and qualified to teach it.

469 Lynn B.  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 8:57:32pm

re: #419 ploome hineni

hi charming.:)

the shocking thing about this whole issue, is how a fucktard like this Williamson ever got to be a Bishop

and was allowed to influence people

until this fucktard was exposed

he was perfectly acceptable……except that he didn;t like Vatican 2

because, among other things, Vatican2 asserted that not all Jews for all time were responsible for killing

g o d

/or some such psychotic idea

Ploome … he did NOT get to be a bishop in the Catholic church. Please follow the story. The reason he was excommunicated in the first place was that he belonged to and was ordained by a schismatic retrograde neanderthal antisemitic protest (against Vatican 2) group (see Thanos’ #38 above). So he was only a bishop to those within the schism.

There are (very inexact) parallels in Judaism …

470 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 8:58:14pm

re: #468 reine.de.tout

…Naso, from your questions I get the feeling that you have not been exposed to any religious experience in your life. Your question about being able to be “self-taught” was just really odd, at least to me - not in a bad way, just strange, I would never be able to think a person could “self-teach” Christian or Jewish faith. Most religions are going to require some sort of instruction in the faith by a person trained and qualified to teach it.

Anyhow, I sometimes get confused by your questions because they are so far outside of my experience, and so I’m not sure whether you are “toying” with me or whether you really just don’t know.

471 reine.de.tout  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 8:59:16pm

re: #469 Lynn B.

Ploome … he did NOT get to be a bishop in the Catholic church. Please follow the story. The reason he was excommunicated in the first place was that he belonged to and was ordained by a schismatic retrograde neanderthal antisemitic protest (against Vatican 2) group (see Thanos’ #38 above). So he was only a bishop to those within the schism.

There are (very inexact) parallels in Judaism …

I love the way you described this group!
I gotta keep it in my faves …

472 RememberSekhmet?  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 9:06:32pm

The Fraternity of St Pius X and the Catholic Church are reconciling. Part of that reconciliation involves de-excommunicating ALL of the priests consecrated by that one guy who didn’t get Benedict’s predecessor’s permission. This means all of the priests. There is no way to pick and choose which ones, and have the ruling from the Vatican be meaningful to the priests who didn’t deny the Holocaust. If the Vatican is going back and saying that one bishop had the right to consecrate those four guys, that bishop fellow had the right to consecrate those other four guys, no matter if one of them was a jackass on Swedish TV.

The jackassery of that one priest is a completely separate issue from the question of who had the authority to do what.

473 Flavia  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 9:09:45pm
re: #24 MandyManners

I was thinking of a place high up in the Italian Alps with itsy-bitsy rooms and shitty food.


re: #28 EmmmieG
No, the part that would get me is the part where they have to wake up in the middle of the night to pray. It would be like having a newborn forever, but without the nice comfy bed and the adorable newborn to make it worthwhile.

Oh, I remember those days - for years, I couldn’t even sleep properly unless the kids were tucked up next to me. It took the baby boy growing to a tall six years old for it to get uncomfortable…

But back to the topic at hand: I am not Catholic, and it bothers me to dictate about anyone else’s religion. But I will ask: if Jew-hatred is not a part of Catholicism (& I know it’s not), isn’t this grounds for excommunication?

474 fatdaddy  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 9:35:01pm

re: #473 Flavia

I know you can be an idiot and a Catholic, and I don’t think it is grounds for being excommunicated.

If you are knowing misrepresenting the beliefs of the church after being corrected I think that may be grounds, especially if your intent is to hurt others; which promoting the hatred of Jews or any other group would be.

475 Petra  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 11:08:25pm

The Catholic Church has been trying to bring in the SSPX for a while and each time it comes up this Fr. Williamson (Anglican convert) tries to sabotage it. He dropped a real doosy this time.

FYI: SSPX founder Bishop Lefebvre’s own father was exterminated by the Nazis.

476 Joan  Tue, Jan 27, 2009 11:23:28pm

re: #241 Ojoe

OTOH the 10 commandments does say no lying.

Yes, false witness—very appropriate to apply to Holocaust denial

477 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jan 28, 2009 1:22:32am

re: #135 Catttt

No - he is still a priest and bishop. Here is what I posted on the Sunday thread:

Allow me to give a link to Father Z, who explains this complex issue.

MISCONCEPTIONS: What the “lifting” of the SSPX excom’s means for people

The bishops of the SSPX are validly consecrated bishops, but the fact remains that they were illicitly consecrated.

Thanks for posting this link, Catttt! I already knew that the four were still priests (albeit “suspended” priests), but assumed that from the Vatican’s POV, they had never been Bishops. Obviously there are a lot of legalistic technicalities involved here, as far as Church Law is concerned.

re: #135 Catttt

This is all part of an attempt to heal a schism

That part I understand, but I still don’t see why the un-excommunication of the four was deemed to be a pre-requisite for “healing the schism.” (Since the “schism” between the Vatican and the SSPX was not in the slightest degree caused by these excommunications — the schism would still be a reality if the excommunications had never happened in the first place.) If anything, lifting the excomms seems just as likely to exacerbate the schism, since it might encourage SSPX priests to look to the four bishops for direction, rather than to the Vatican.

478 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jan 28, 2009 1:52:38am

re: #469 Lynn B.

So he was only a bishop to those within the schism.

See Catttt’s post and link at #135 — apparently the Vatican’s stance is that the bestowal of the rank of bishop on these four was “valid but illicit.”

What, you may ask, is the difference between “valid” and “licit” in this context? Beats the fuck out of me, but a key practical distinction is that the four are regarded as being Bishops with none of the power and authority that a Bishop would normally have.

As to why the Church insists on distinguishing “(in)valid” from “(il)licit” — a faithful Catholic could explain it much better, but I think that part of the reason is the belief that when a sacrament is administered (whether the sacrament is priestly ordination or matrimonial union or baptism into the Church, etc.), both the power of God’s Holy Spirit and the ecclesiastical authority of the Church clergy are involved.

And making this seemingly artificial distinction between “(in)valid” and “(il)licit” allows them to declare that a priestly ordination (e.g.) was done improperly as far as ecclesiastical law is concerned, without making any assertions about the power of the Holy Spirit that was involved in the Sacrament. That is, it would be the sole prerogative of God to say that “hey, guys, my Holy Spirit didn’t really approve this ordination,” and so it’s beyond the Church’s power to “revoke” that aspect of the Sacrament.

And thus in this case, we have four “valid” Bishops who have no bishoply authority. And for different reasons, ALL priests proclaiming loyalty to SSPX remain priests, yet (as far as the Vatican is concerned) lack most of the power/authority normally belonging to a priest.

479 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jan 28, 2009 4:26:31am

re: #64 Sharmuta

They should reinstate the excommunication.

The problem with doing that is that it would potentially encourage confusion about the status of other clergy who openly belong to or are at least sympathetic with the “ultra-traditionalists” as represented by SSPX, and also the status of lay Catholics who sympathize with “ultra-traditionalism.”

The Church should, instead, be prepared to excommunicate Williamson AGAIN, and if it comes to that, they should emphasize that this is a new and separate instance of excommunication, and not a renewal or extension of the first one from twenty years ago.

480 Arkay  Wed, Jan 28, 2009 5:35:11am

Just giving him permission to “exist” in the congregation is offensive.>

You don’t understand. This is not the Kiwanis. This is not even the Little Brown Methodist Church. This is THE HOLY, ROMAN, CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH. To declare him excommunicate is to declare him formally and irrevocably (pending repentance) damned to the devil for all eternity, forever and ever, amen.

Quite bindingly so. (If you don’t understand that, you don’t understand what the Church claims is the ambit of its authority.)

This is not done to idiot loudmouths for being idiot loudmouths, or every pajama-clad man jack on the Net would be toast. No, it’s saved for extraordinary situations. We don’t damn people for being idjits.

481 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jan 28, 2009 6:59:10am

re: #480 Arkay

This is THE HOLY, ROMAN, CATHOLIC AND APOSTOLIC CHURCH. To declare him excommunicate is to declare him formally and irrevocably (pending repentance) damned to the devil for all eternity, forever and ever, amen.

I’m fairly certain this is NOT the case — at least not the “for all eternity” part. For one thing, the excommunicated Catholic still benefits from the saving effects of Baptism, which isn’t in any way nullified by the excommunication.

Also, God’s mercy and grace are infinite, etc., and thus “it is to be hoped” that a Catholic who dies while still in the state of excommunication will ultimately be forgiven after a mere eleventeen quintillion years or so burning in Purgatory (a slap on the wrist compared to an eternity in Hell).

482 Throbert McGee  Wed, Jan 28, 2009 7:15:44am
I’m fairly certain this is NOT the case — at least not the “for all eternity” part. For one thing, the excommunicated Catholic still benefits from the saving effects of Baptism, which isn’t in any way nullified by the excommunication.

Also, if I correctly understand the Catholic Encyclopedia’s entry on excommunication, an excommunicated person who is unconscious and deemed to be in danger of imminent death CAN receive the Sacrament of Last Rites, even supposing that the person’s last utterance before losing consciousness had been “By the way, I’m still 100% unrepentant about whatever it is you excommunicated me for.”

But outside of such “emergency” circumstances, the excommunicated is barred from all Sacraments, including Last Rites, pending a deliberate choice to repent and seek forgiveness.

483 Petra  Wed, Jan 28, 2009 7:31:25am

Arday and Throbert (I side with Arday here)…

Fr Z explains it well as does this blog (who has links to Fr Z):
canonlaw.info

484 haggis42  Wed, Jan 28, 2009 10:35:24am

Re: 247 Killgore Trout
They are much more concerned with an abortion or a cracker than they are genocide.

Excuse me: it’s not “a cracker” to Catholics. It is the Body and Blood of our Lord. Please show a little respect.

485 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jan 28, 2009 10:44:52am

re: #470 reine.de.tout

Anyhow, I sometimes get confused by your questions because they are so far outside of my experience, and so I’m not sure whether you are “toying” with me or whether you really just don’t know.

Trust me, I’m not toying with you, and we’ve had that thought between us previously.

As to your other questions, I was baptized, Lutheran, for what that’s worth. It was traditional thing as much as religious. And yes, I went to church and Sunday school and said my nightime prayers, for a while. I also called myself an agnostic before atheist. I guess a kind of childish Pascals’ choice.

As to self taught, all that was on my mind was that why would anyone adult want to become Catholic in the first place if they didn’t know quite a bit about it first? No insult intended, but the process you describe sounds a little bit like shopping for a product with a guaranteed return policy if not completely satisfied. I’ve never understood how people can justify “choosing” their religion for best fit. I thought either one is completely correct and all others are wrong. Random choice would be more honorable than personal preference, I think.

Anyway, please don’t take offense. Its always hard discussing issue of faith that are not shared, since both parties have to be telling the other that they are wrong, by definition.

486 fatdaddy  Wed, Jan 28, 2009 12:12:59pm

TAKING THE STEPS NECESSARY FOR FULL COMMUNION

VATICAN CITY, 28 JAN 2009 (VIS) - At the end of his general audience today, the Pope mentioned his recent decision to revoke the excommunication on “the four bishops ordained without pontifical mandate by Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre in 1988”.

“I have undertaken this act of paternal benevolence because those same bishops have repeatedly expressed to me their profound suffering at the situation in which they found themselves.

“I hope that this gesture of mine will be followed by a prompt commitment on their part to take the further steps necessary to achieve full communion with the Church, thus showing true faithfulness to, and true recognition of, the Magisterium and authority of the Pope and of Vatican Council II”.

AG/FULL COMMUNION/LEFEBVRE VIS 090128 (130)


THE SHOAH: AN ADMONITION NOT TO FORGET OR DENY

VATICAN CITY, 28 JAN 2009 (VIS) - “May the Shoah be for everyone an admonition against oblivion, negation and reductionism, because violence against a single human being is violence against all”, the Holy Father told pilgrims attending his weekly general audience.

Referring to recent commemorations of the Shoah, the Pope highlighted how at Auschwitz - a place he has visited several times, the last in May 2006 during his apostolic trip to Poland - “millions of Jews were cruelly massacred, innocent victims of blind racial and religious hatred.

“As I once again affectionately express my full and indisputable solidarity with our Brothers and Sisters who received the First Covenant”, he added, “I trust that the memory of the Shoah will induce humankind to reflect upon the unpredictable power of evil when it conquers the heart of man”.

“In particular”, the Holy Father concluded, “may the Shoah show both old and new generations that only the arduous path of listening and dialogue, of love and forgiveness, can lead peoples, cultures and religions of the world to the longed-for goal of fraternity and peace, in truth. May violence never again humiliate man’s dignity”.

AG/SHOAH/… VIS 090128 (200)

487 fatdaddy  Wed, Jan 28, 2009 1:14:06pm

Israel’s chief rabbinate severs Vatican ties

breitbart.com

++++++++++++++++++++

I fail to see how this will make the world a better place.

488 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 28, 2009 1:59:15pm

re: #485 Naso Tang

Trust me, I’m not toying with you, and we’ve had that thought between us previously.

As to your other questions, I was baptized, Lutheran, for what that’s worth. It was traditional thing as much as religious. And yes, I went to church and Sunday school and said my nightime prayers, for a while. I also called myself an agnostic before atheist. I guess a kind of childish Pascals’ choice.

As to self taught, all that was on my mind was that why would anyone adult want to become Catholic in the first place if they didn’t know quite a bit about it first? No insult intended, but the process you describe sounds a little bit like shopping for a product with a guaranteed return policy if not completely satisfied. I’ve never understood how people can justify “choosing” their religion for best fit. I thought either one is completely correct and all others are wrong. Random choice would be more honorable than personal preference, I think.

Anyway, please don’t take offense. Its always hard discussing issue of faith that are not shared, since both parties have to be telling the other that they are wrong, by definition.

No offense taken, I just sometimes find your questions off-kilter based on my life experiences (no offense meant). In other words, I feel like some things are just known, and I don’t know how I know them and assume everyone knows the same thing. I could never have been a teacher, I have no patience or understanding for it! You’ve been able to sense my impatience, I’m sure, what with all the “toying” bits.

Anyhow -
as for “shopping” for a religion, yes, you are correct, people seem to have some knowledge before beginning a conversion process.

A book that relates the experience of 11 converts to Catholicism who give what are their reasons for becoming Catholic is Surprised by Truth. and the stories their may answer your questions about how people make this decision, if you are interested in delving into it. I’m not trying to proselytize here, just telling you there is a source of stories about the various paths people have taken.

489 Achilles Tang  Wed, Jan 28, 2009 2:58:57pm

re: #488 reine.de.tout

I do like you. Possibly the best here.

;)

490 reine.de.tout  Wed, Jan 28, 2009 4:05:02pm

re: #489 Naso Tang

I do like you. Possibly the best here.

;)

aw, you’re sweet!


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