FBI Cuts Off CAIR Over Hamas Connections

At long last, the FBI has finally cut off contacts with the Hamas-linked Council on American Islamic Relations. Since LGF has been targeted by CAIR in “hate speech” complaints to the FBI, this is very welcome news.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) has cut off contacts with the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) amid mounting concern about the Muslim advocacy group’s roots in a Hamas-support network, the Investigative Project on Terrorism has learned.

The decision to end contacts with CAIR was made quietly last summer as federal prosecutors prepared for a second trial of the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF), an Islamic charity accused of providing money and political support to the terrorist group Hamas, according to people with knowledge of the matter.

CAIR and its chairman emeritus, Omar Ahmad, were named un-indicted co-conspirators in the HLF case. Both Ahmad and CAIR’s current national executive director, Nihad Awad, were revealed on government wiretaps as having been active participants in early Hamas-related organizational meetings in the United States. During testimony, FBI agent Lara Burns described CAIR as a front organization.

Hamas is a US-designated foreign terrorist organization, and it’s been illegal since 1995 to provide support to it within the United States.

The decision to end contacts with CAIR is a significant policy change for the FBI. For years, the FBI worked with the national organization and its state chapters to address Muslim community concerns about the potential for hate crimes and other civil liberty violations in the wake of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

But critics said the FBI improperly conferred legitimacy on CAIR by meeting with its officials, even as its own investigative files contained evidence of CAIR leaders’ ties to Hamas.

Last autumn, FBI field offices began notifying state CAIR chapters that bureau officials could no longer meet with them until CAIR’s national leadership in Washington had addressed issues raised by the HLF trial, according to people with knowledge of the notifications.

CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper declined to comment Wednesday when the IPT called for comment. Before hanging up, Hooper said “We’re more than happy to cooperate with legitimate media. But we don’t cooperate with those who promote anti-Muslim bigotry.”

Jump to bottom

376 comments
1 Peacekeeper  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:30:30am

A clue!

2 The Pulchritudinous Patriot  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:30:41am

Well it's about effing time!

3 monkeytime  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:30:51am

Now there is CHANGE I can believe in!

4 Ford_Prefect  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:30:54am

I fear that the only reason they are doing this is because the White House is going to deal with them directly.

/kind of.

5 UFO TOFU  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:30:54am

Finally.

6 Wild Knight  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:31:08am

πρῶτον

7 Macker  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:31:15am

How long will it take before БХО reverses this?

8 jcm  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:31:19am

An EO restoring ties in...... 5... 4... 3...

9 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:31:26am

It really doesn't inspire confidence that it took this long?

10 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:31:33am

Well, shut my mouth!

FBI, read Charles' blog much?

11 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:31:35am

Last summer. Old news!

12 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:31:45am

re: #7 Macker

How long will it take before БХО reverses this?


hmmm, I wonder. . .

13 Wild Knight  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:32:02am

Sorry. That was a test to see if I could input Greek characters. Won't happen again unless in a relevant comment.

14 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:32:04am
15 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:32:15am

What does 0bama say about this? Isn't the FBI supposed to be reaching out?
/sarc

I don't cair about Cocksucking Asshole Islamic Radicals.
(I was in a bad mood last night shoveling slush, and came up with this. Thanks for giving be the chance to use it.)

16 Maximu§  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:32:17am

FBI Cuts Off CAIR Over Hamas Connections

Finally some good news!

17 akak  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:32:30am

Should be investigated for this. The FBI I mean.

18 kafir lover  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:32:45am
CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper declined to comment Wednesday when the IPT called for comment. Before hanging up, Hooper said “We’re more than happy to cooperate with legitimate media. But we don’t cooperate with those who promote anti-Muslim bigotry.”

However, all pro-hamas antisemitic, antiwestern sentiments are welcome.

19 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:32:50am

Hopenchange!

20 logboy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:32:55am

re: #3 monkeytime

Now there is CHANGE I can believe in!

Damn! You beat me to it.

21 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:33:00am

re: #16 Maximu§

FBI Cuts Off CAIR Over Hamas Connections

Finally some good news!

Well, yes I agree. . .

22 quickjustice  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:33:01am

And Dhimmi NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg still has the general counsel for CAIR on his "Human Rights Commission". Sheesh!

23 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:33:15am

re: #14 MandyManners

I bet Hoopie-the-shit-slinging monkey is pissed-off.

Am I missing something because I haven't seen him in public for a long while. I mean on news, blog links etc.

24 unreconstructed rebel  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:33:21am

I need to ask a stupid question. What on earth does it mean for the FBI to "have ties with". They are the cops, right? Not a business?

25 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:33:34am

About frickkin' time.

CAIRs eleventy-seven billion members must be devastated.

26 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:33:37am
At long last, the FBI is finally cutting their ties to the Hamas-linked Council on American Islamic Relations.

Does Obama know about this?

/he won't be pleased

27 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:33:40am

re: #18 kafir lover

However, all pro-hamas antisemitic, antiwestern sentiments are welcome.

yep. . .echo chambers only. . .

28 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:33:42am

Good. They did this last summer.

amid mounting concern about the Muslim advocacy group’s roots in a Hamas-support network

Heh, being un-indicted co-conspirators raised "concern."

I know it is bureaucrat-speak, but still funny in its understatement.

29 jorline  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:33:48am

CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper declined to comment Wednesday when the IPT called for comment. Before hanging up, Hooper said “We’re more than happy to cooperate with legitimate media. But we don’t cooperate with those who promote anti-Muslim bigotry.”

CAIR shouldn't have any problem finding journalist in the MSM sympathetic to their cause.

30 akak  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:34:12am

re: #24 unreconstructed rebel

I need to ask a stupid question. What on earth does it mean for the FBI to "have ties with". They are the cops, right? Not a business?


that's it sensitivity school for you!

31 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:34:32am

HATE CRIME!

32 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:34:55am

re: #23 Walter L. Newton

Am I missing something because I haven't seen him in public for a long while. I mean on news, blog links etc.

Last I heard, Hoopie was still their spokesmonkey.

33 Big Steve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:35:06am

Truly a question and not a challenge......do you consider Steve Emerson credible?

34 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:35:18am

re: #29 jorline

CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper declined to comment Wednesday when the IPT called for comment. Before hanging up, Hooper said “We’re more than happy to cooperate with legitimate media. But we don’t cooperate with those who promote anti-Muslim bigotry.”

CAIR shouldn't have any problem finding journalist in the MSM sympathetic to their cause.

Hooper promotes anti-Muslim bigotry.

/tool

35 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:35:41am

re: #33 Big Steve

Truly a question and not a challenge......do you consider Steve Emerson credible?

He usually sounds pretty sane to me. Why?

36 cartoonboy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:35:48am

Cair-cut for Slam-Dogs

37 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:36:00am
Both Ahmad and CAIR’s current national executive director, Nihad Awad, were revealed on government wiretaps as having been active participants in early Hamas-related organizational meetings in the United States.

No "alleged".

They WERE on the tapes. And they WERE active participants in meetings to organize Hamas in this country.

38 Peacekeeper  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:36:08am

re: #31 WriterMom

HAT CRIME!


Yes!

39 unreconstructed rebel  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:36:08am

re: #30 akak

that's it sensitivity school for you!

Just a matter of time before they send me to re-education camp.

40 Randall Gross  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:36:27am

Now don't anyone go and say something that will make dougie call the FBI....

:)

41 VioletTiger  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:36:48am

Better late than never.
And they even said HAMAS was a terrorist organization.
Miracles never cease.

42 cartoonboy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:36:58am

re: #36 cartoonboy

Cair-cut for Slam-Dogs


FBI gives Cair-cut to Slam -Dogs

43 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:37:10am

Don't worry, The One will get that decision reversed.

44 cartoonboy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:37:18am

Sorry-over-kill

45 Big Steve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:37:23am

re: #35 Nevergiveup

He usually sounds pretty sane to me. Why?


truly a question.....have heard both positive and negative.

46 SevoGuy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:37:24am
FBI Cuts Off CAIR Over Hamas Connections

Now, every politician who accepted political donations from CAIR, please step forward.

Why did it take 7 years?

47 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:37:28am

Just heard some bad news. Seems like at 5:00 PM on Superbowl Sunday their gonna interview Obama.

48 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:37:56am

re: #47 Nevergiveup

Just heard some bad news. Seems like at 5:00 PM on Superbowl Sunday their gonna interview Obama.

I never watch that pre-game crap.

50 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:38:15am

Oh yeah,

GO STEELERS!

51 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:38:32am

re: #48 Ward Cleaver

I never watch that pre-game crap.

It's the halftime show. Pray that no nipple slips occur.

52 jorline  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:38:47am

I wonder if this has anything to do with Jack Bauer joining forces with the FBI this season as well?

53 CapeCoddah  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:39:04am

Hello everyone! o/t, has anyone seen this:
Military Judge Refuses to Halt Trial of USS Cole Bombing Suspect
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
The judge basically told Obama to stick it.

54 TheAntichrist  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:39:14am

Did common sense actually prevail? Shocking!

55 turn  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:39:16am

Does this mean Penetta endorsed this decision?

56 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:39:32am

re: #47 Nevergiveup

Just heard some bad news. Seems like at 5:00 PM on Superbowl Sunday their gonna interview Obama.

He's going to complain that football is too violent, and the two teams should talk and discuss their differences.

57 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:39:54am

re: #48 Ward Cleaver

I never watch that pre-game crap.

I generally don't watch the game crap, either. (Yes, I'm a stinkin' commie, I'm indifferent to the Superbowl.)

58 carefulnow  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:40:07am

re: #38 Peacekeeper

LOL! Is it just me, or is the Queen of Soul not able to sing well anymore?

I used to love Aretha's voice, but now....it's painful to hear.

59 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:40:16am

re: #40 Thanos

Now don't anyone go and say something that will make dougie call the FBI.... :)

I hope and pray that someday someone will give me my 15 minutes of fame based around this subject. I would LOVE if the FBI came to me, or any agency, and wanted to know why I made certain comments about something, comments that are certainly with in my right of freedom of speech.

Hell, it's the American way, right? I'll tap dance and put on a show on Ophrah (sp?) and Larry King, put a few dollars in my bank account and be done with it.

What a sweet thought.

60 Cathypop  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:40:44am

re: #47 Nevergiveup

Just heard some bad news. Seems like at 5:00 PM on Superbowl Sunday their gonna interview Obama.


Please tell me that this is a joke.

61 Wild Knight  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:40:54am

Hey Charles, this works great, thanks... οἱ Ἀθηναῖοι μάλιστα ἦθελον νικῆσαι...
Sorry. Looks great though.

62 Ford_Prefect  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:40:59am

re: #57 Occasional Reader

I generally don't watch the game crap, either. (Yes, I'm a stinkin' commie, I'm indifferent to the Superbowl.)

I look forward to the Superbowl every year for one reason only. It means Spring Training is just around the corner!

63 Occasional Reader  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:41:00am

re: #58 carefulnow

LOL! Is it just me, or is the Queen of Soul not able to sing well anymore?

I used to love Aretha's voice, but now....it's painful to hear.

I think that hat contraption was pushing down on her head and squeezing her vocal chords or something.

64 MJ  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:41:02am

When will the Media, especially the NYT, CNN, NBC, and others cut their ties to CAIR?

65 filetandrelease  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:41:23am

re: #53 CapeCoddah

Hello everyone! o/t, has anyone seen this:
Military Judge Refuses to Halt Trial of USS Cole Bombing Suspect
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
The judge basically told Obama to stick it.

Ball to the Judge! Now find the scum guilty and pass him a blind fold.

66 Wild Knight  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:41:29am

doesn't look great :(

67 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:41:34am

re: #51 OldLineTexan

It's the halftime show. Pray that no nipple slips occur.

AAAAAARRRRRGGGHHHH!

68 littleoldlady  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:41:42am

Lovely. The people who are supposed to keep me and mine safe are slow learners.

/no wonder I can't sleep at night... :-(

69 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:41:44am

re: #61 Wild Knight

Hey Charles, this works great, thanks... οἱ Ἀθηναῖ&# x03BF;ι μάλιστ&# x03B1; ἦθελον νικῆσα&# x03B9;...
Sorry. Looks great though.

It's all Greek to me.

70 carefulnow  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:41:49am

re: #63 Occasional Reader

If she could sing the way she used to, I'd forgive the hat.

71 tfc3rid  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:41:57am

re: #51 OldLineTexan

It's the halftime show. Pray that no nipple slips occur.

Nah... It's noted Moonbat Bruce Springsteen... He'll probably be wearing a big O.

72 CIA Reject  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:42:09am

OT: BO seeks delay in case of USS Cole bombing mastermind:

A military judge in Guantanamo Bay has denied the Obama administration's request to delay proceedings for 120 days in the case of a detainee accused of planning the October 2000 attack on the USS Cole warship, an al-Qaeda strike that killed 17 service members and injured 50 others.

The decision throws into some disarray the administration's plan to buy time as it reviews individual detainee cases as part of its plan to close the U.S. military prison at the Guantanamo naval base in Cuba. The Pentagon may now be forced to withdraw the charges against Abd al Rahim al-Nashiri, a Saudi citizen of Yemeni descent.

So, Mr. President, a team of NCIS agents sifting through the mincemeat of what was once 17 of their shipmates and then sweating for over a year to track this scumbag through the hellholes of Yemen while all the while carefully documenting everything so that his "rights" are protected at a trial that he no more deserves than does a rabid dog is not good enough for you. You need your hand-picked team of political hacks to pick apart and second guess the work of these professional investigators- while the scum they caught is allowed to escape the justice he deserves.

*SPIT*

This will not endear BO as commander-in-chief to any of the military, especially the United States Navy.

73 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:42:29am

re: #69 MandyManners

It's all Greek to me.

No, some of it is hex.

74 tfc3rid  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:42:31am

re: #53 CapeCoddah

The WH Press Secy. had no comment on it as the White House was 'just informed' of this.

75 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:42:40am

re: #50 Ward Cleaver

I have never, ever, in my life, not once, met a Cardinal fan in person.

76 dhg4  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:42:50am

I look forward to reading about this on in the New York Times, Washington Post, LA Times and hearing about on the CBS news roundup tomorrow. Well maybe the Washington Times.

I suspect that sometime over the weekend the NY Times or WaPo will have an editorial or op-ed decrying this harrassment of a legitimate civil rights organization.

77 LGoPs  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:42:52am

re: #62 Ford_Prefect

I look forward to the Superbowl every year for one reason only. It means Spring Training is just around the corner!

For me it means that the Bears will be undefeated for at least the next 7 months.....
:)

78 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:42:57am

re: #75 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I have never, ever, in my life, not once, met a Cardinal fan in person.

Dead one?

79 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:43:22am

re: #63 Occasional Reader

I think that hat contraption was pushing down on her head and squeezing her vocal chords or something.

I saw her on some show recently (can't remember where), and she was awful. Sad. It's like watching Sinatra go downhill.

80 Hengineer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:43:27am

What I find funny is that the left cause the hooplah over Guantanamo use the "they haven't had a trial?" as their reason. Well this guy is HAVING a trial, so stop whining.

81 Lee Coller  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:43:38am

re: #6 Wild Knight

πρῶτον

That's Greek to me.

82 seekeroftruth  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:43:42am

Since LGF has been targeted by CAIR in “hate speech” complaints to the FBI, this is very welcome news.
Glad to hear this Charles!

83 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:43:46am

Super Bowl, commercial-free, at Islamic Center

Some 250 teenage boys will pile onto the carpet of the Islamic Center of Passaic County on Sunday to catch the Super Bowl on a big screen. But when the much-buzzed-about commercials come on, they won't be watching. A youth leader manning the projector slaps a piece of paper over the lens, blocking out images the center considers inappropriate, such as beers and bikinis.

"The purpose is to keep them away from bad influences," said Emad Hamdeh, the youth committee director. "The beer commercials show people happy while drinking; that's not reality."

During the self-imposed blackouts, the boy fans don't heckle in protest, said Hamdeh. He uses the breaks to talk about the purpose of life. As in "entertainment is OK, but shouldn't be the purpose of life," he said.

Um, that's an illegal infringement of copyright laws.

/the NFL frowns upon it, big time

84 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:43:47am

re: #78 Walter L. Newton

Nope. Not a one. Living or dead. Not even a bandwagon fan this year.

85 MJ  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:43:50am

CAIR Says:

Thank CBS for ‘Powerful’ Report on Mistreatment of Palestinians
Posted 1/26/2009 3:39:00 PM


(WASHINGTON, D.C., 1/26/2009) - CAIR today asked American Muslims and other people who seek peace with justice in the Middle East to thank CBS for last night’s “60 Minutes” program that outlined in detail the injustices suffered by the Palestinian people at the hands of the Israelis.

The 13-minute report by journalist Bob Simon showed the damage to the cause of peace caused by the ever-expanding and illegal Israeli settlements, the evictions of Palestinians from their homes, the humiliation they experience at Israeli checkpoints, the “Apartheid” roads and wall built by Israel, and the bizarre experience of Palestinian families imprisoned in their own homes by Israeli soldiers.


Be sure to thank CBS and Bob Simon for being a Hamas media tool.

86 CapeCoddah  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:44:00am

re: #74 tfc3rid

The WH Press Secy. had no comment on it as the White House was 'just informed' of this.

The White house will have no comment for the next 4 years, at least. On anything.

87 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:44:58am

re: #83 Killian Bundy

Super Bowl, commercial-free, at Islamic Center

Um, that's an illegal infringement of copyright laws.

/the NFL frowns upon it, big time

Some wiseguy should switch the channel over at halftime, to the Lingerie Bowl.

88 Ford_Prefect  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:45:03am

re: #77 LGoPs

For me it means that the Bears will be undefeated for at least the next 7 months.....
:)

Well, you always have the Cubs to root for. :-)

89 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:45:13am

re: #29 jorline

CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper declined to comment Wednesday when the IPT called for comment. Before hanging up, Hooper said “We’re more than happy to cooperate with legitimate media. But we don’t cooperate with those who promote anti-Muslim bigotry.”

CAIR shouldn't have any problem finding journalist in the MSM government officials sympathetic to their cause.

This is what worries me. . .

90 Dainn  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:45:16am

Who will be CAIR's replacement? Will they be any better?

Also, I'll be interested to see just what Obama has to say on this matter. Isn't "talking" the gleaming white unicorn of HopenChange?

91 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:45:17am

re: #85 MJ

CAIR Says:

Thank CBS for ‘Powerful’ Report on Mistreatment of Palestinians
Posted 1/26/2009 3:39:00 PM


Be sure to thank CBS and Bob Simon for being a Hamas media tool.

Bob Simon - kapo.

92 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:45:48am

re: #90 Dainn

Who will be CAIR's replacement? Will they be any better?

Also, I'll be interested to see just what Obama has to say on this matter. Isn't "talking" the gleaming white unicorn of HopenChange?

Hizb'allah.

93 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:45:49am

re: #83 Killian Bundy

Um, that's an illegal infringement of copyright laws.

/the NFL frowns upon it, big time

And the NFL would do something about it....if it were Christians.

94 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:46:27am

re: #91 Ward Cleaver

Bob Simon - kapo.

ouch. . .

95 jorline  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:46:40am

re: #75 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I have never, ever, in my life, not once, met a Cardinal fan in person.

lol...I was telling my son while watching their last playoff game that it was strange to see a Cardinals home game minus the Cowboy jerseys.
Dis they import fans?

96 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:46:53am

We have a rogue CIA agent who just happens to be a Muslim convert raping and torturing people, and the FBI just now cuts ties to am extreme radical Islamic Jihad group. We have an infestation problem in our government real bad.

97 akak  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:46:56am

re: #90 Dainn

islamonline.net/com/org probably, just opened a new office beside Barry's

98 Maximu§  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:47:16am

re: #72 CIA Reject

OT: BO seeks delay in case of USS Cole bombing mastermind:


So, Mr. President, a team of NCIS agents sifting through the mincemeat of what was once 17 of their shipmates and then sweating for over a year to track this scumbag through the hellholes of Yemen while all the while carefully documenting everything so that his "rights" are protected at a trial that he no more deserves than does a rabid dog is not good enough for you. You need your hand-picked team of political hacks to pick apart and second guess the work of these professional investigators- while the scum they caught is allowed to escape the justice he deserves.

*SPIT*

This will not endear BO as commander-in-chief to any of the military, especially the United States Navy.

17 Sailors dead.

17 Sailors Dead.

I remember that day like it was yesterday....I'm still PO'd about! I was the only one to fly the America flag that day.

99 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:47:30am

re: #85 MJ

CAIR Says:

Thank CBS for ‘Powerful’ Report on Mistreatment of Palestinians
Posted 1/26/2009 3:39:00 PM

Link?


Be sure to thank CBS and Bob Simon for being a Hamas media tool.

100 Ford_Prefect  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:47:42am

re: #87 Ward Cleaver

Some wiseguy should switch the channel over at halftime, to the Lingerie Bowl.

I assume everyone has seen the reports about PETA's commercial being rejected for the Superbowl. The ridiculous thing about it is that NBC, who is showing the Superbowl and rejected the ad, is showing it over and over again on every pseudo-news program they have. I smell collusion.

101 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:47:45am

re: #94 DisturbedEma

ouch. . .

I thought about stopping at "disgrace to the tribe".

102 Maximu§  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:47:50am

"American flag" I mean....sorry

103 LGoPs  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:47:51am

re: #83 Killian Bundy

Super Bowl, commercial-free, at Islamic Center


Um, that's an illegal infringement of copyright laws.

/the NFL frowns upon it, big time

"The purpose is to keep them away from bad influences," said Emad Hamdeh, the youth committee director. "The beer commercials show people happy while drinking; that's not reality."

Yeah, they'd rather use the time to show the boys good influences, like how to strap on bombs and blow up happy people while drinking.........
What a twisted world we live in........

104 filetandrelease  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:48:03am

re: #83 Killian Bundy

The beer commercials show people happy while drinking; that's not reality."

Ummm, really? This guy needs to hang with the big dog a couple of weekends, his "reality" would improve quite a bit.

105 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:48:07am
106 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:48:18am
But critics said the FBI improperly conferred legitimacy on CAIR by meeting with its officials, even as its own investigative files contained evidence of CAIR leaders’ ties to Hamas.

Just HAD to fix that.

107 jorline  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:48:19am

re: #89 DisturbedEma

This is what worries me. . .

Nice touch, Ema.

How are those babies?

108 LynnfromNZ  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:48:32am

Pig's flying.

109 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:49:06am

re: #83 Killian Bundy

Super Bowl, commercial-free, at Islamic Center

Um, that's an illegal infringement of copyright laws.

/the NFL frowns upon it, big time

Nevirmind.

/not a problem thanks to the usual suspects, Orrin Hatch and Arlen Specter

110 Hengineer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:49:27am

re: #108 LynnfromNZ

Pig's flying.

Fat lady singing

111 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:50:00am

Hello Lizards!

I just read the entirety of the Blago thread. I couldn't watch his diatribe. I think I got a good summation from you-all. Thanks.

Now, what are we talking about and how are you-all?

112 MJ  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:50:09am

re: #99 MandyManners

Mandy, I won't link to a hate site such as CAIR.
Just google them. It's on the front page.

113 tfc3rid  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:50:09am

WH Sect just asked about AJad's words yesterday...

Responded by saying we dont focus on that but we must use all elements of national power to protect our interests including diplomacy. Must work through the issues.

BTW, Illicit nuclear program, support for terror are things President wants to address.

114 Dainn  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:50:21am

I wonder which cute cuddly character this decision will kill on Hamas Childrens' TV. Poor Hasud is rolling over in his grave, which doesn't even have a tombstone now because of FBI.

115 Peacekeeper  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:50:34am
I have a vision, and I know
The heathen shall return.
"They shall not come with warships,
They shall not waste with brands,
But books be all their eating,
And ink be on their hands.

"Not with the humour of hunters
Or savage skill in war,
But ordering all things with dead words,
Strings shall they make of beasts and birds,
And wheels of wind and star.

"They shall come mild as monkish clerks,
With many a scroll and pen;
And backward shall ye turn and gaze,
Desiring one of Alfred's days,
When pagans still were men.
"The dear sun dwarfed of dreadful suns,
Like fiercer flowers on stalk,
Earth lost and little like a pea
In high heaven's towering forestry,
—These be the small weeds ye shall see
Crawl, covering the chalk.
"But though they bridge St. Mary's sea,
Or steal St. Michael's wing—
Though they rear marvels over us,
Greater than great Vergilius
Wrought for the Roman king;
By this sign you shall know them,
The breaking of the sword,
And man no more a free knight,
That loves or hates his lord.
"Yea, this shall be the sign of them,
The sign of the dying fire;
And Man made like a half-wit,
That knows not of his sire.
"What though they come with scroll and pen,
And grave as a shaven clerk,
By this sign you shall know them,
That they ruin and make dark"
"By all men bond to Nothing,
Being slaves without a lord,
By one blind idiot world obeyed,
Too blind to be abhorred"
"By God and man dishonoured,
By death and life made vain,
Know ye the old barbarian,
The barbarian come again—

116 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:50:37am

re: #106 SasquatchOnSteroids

We have Islamic infestation problems in several agencies of our government, and I don't see O calling for the exterminator any time soon.

117 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:51:07am

re: #38 Peacekeeper

Lordy, lordy-CALL THE FASHION POLICE.

118 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:51:18am

re: #86 CapeCoddah

The White house will have no comment for the next 4 years, at least. On anything.

Hubby and I watched a press conference yesterday. That guy (I don't even remember his name) is NO Tony Snow.

119 tfc3rid  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:52:02am

Asking about the Fairness Doctrine right now...

Does Obama believe in Fairness Doctrine applying to electronic media and print.

Will not comment on the Fairness Doctrine.

120 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:52:13am

re: #112 MJ

Mandy, I won't link to a hate site such as CAIR.
Just google them. It's on the front page.

Fair enough.

121 Hengineer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:52:21am

re: #112 MJ

Mandy, I won't link to a hate site such as CAIR.
Just google them. It's on the front page.

Careful, CAIR will probably still cite the number of times they are googled as evidence of "support"

122 jorline  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:52:51am

Question

Why is it that CITI Bank can sponser a College Bowl Game and half time reports and I can't have a thirty second ad during the Super Bowl?
//
...We're both broke and they're deeper in the hole than me...lol

123 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:52:59am

re: #105 FurryOldGuyJeans

Some good news happened today:

Military Judge Denies Obama Request to Suspend Hearings at Guantanamo

Can't the President order him to stop?

124 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:53:26am

re: #118 ggt

Hubby and I watched a press conference yesterday. That guy (I don't even remember his name) is NO Tony Snow.

The only reason Gibbs is not lunch for the WH press corps is that he is running flak for a Dem and media anointed president.

125 Hengineer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:53:33am

re: #122 jorline

Question

Why is it that CITI Bank can sponser a College Bowl Game and half time reports and I can't have a thirty second ad during the Super Bowl?
//
...We're both broke and they're deeper in the hole than me...lol

Publicly funded taxpayer dollars bailout money?

126 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:53:56am

OT, and drive-by, for those who weren't here when I posted it earlier, COOKBOOK update, including a preview of the cover, here.

127 SummerSong  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:53:58am

O/T -Hackers Crack Into Texas Road Sign, Warn of Zombies Ahead

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

128 MJ  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:54:12am

re: #91 Ward Cleaver

Bob Simon - kapo.

Simon has deep psychological problems with being a Jew. He blames that his being Jewish almost got him killed in the first Gulf War when he was kidnapped:

During his interrogations, Simon lied and told the Iraqis that he lived in New York and wasn't Jewish. A month into his captivity, he was confronted by a man who said the Iraqis knew who he was, that he was Jewish and lived in Israel, and that he was working for the Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency. (He wasn't.) He was told his trial would begin in two days.

"I knew it would be a short trial, and I knew what the result would be," he said. "I knew they were going to execute me."

[Link: www.enquirer.com...]

129 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:54:38am

re: #105 FurryOldGuyJeans

Some good news happened today:

Military Judge Denies Obama Request to Suspend Hearings at Guantanamo

It isn't a civilian court under the Judicial branch, it's a military tribunal under the military chain of command, part of the Executive branch.

/is the judge disobeying a direct order?

130 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:54:44am

re: #123 Nevergiveup

Can't the President order him to stop?

O can try, but judges tend to view such interference as antithetical to the separation of powers the Constitution lays out.

131 JacksonTn  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:54:50am

re: #126 reine.de.tout

OT, and drive-by, for those who weren't here when I posted it earlier, COOKBOOK update, including a preview of the cover, here.

Reine ...I looked at it earlier today and the cover is so great ...Jaunte did a GREAT job ...

132 nyc redneck  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:54:52am

re: #53 CapeCoddah

Hello everyone! o/t, has anyone seen this:
Military Judge Refuses to Halt Trial of USS Cole Bombing Suspect
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
The judge basically told Obama to stick it.

i bet that many sensible people in gov't, like this judge, are starting to get impatient w/ the novice o and his stupid decisions.

133 dhg4  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:54:57am

Here's a reportre: #99 MandyManners

Thank CBS for ‘Powerful’ Report on Mistreatment of Palestinians
Posted 1/26/2009 3:39:00 PM

Link?

Here's a report from the Examiner.

134 tfc3rid  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:55:20am

Asked if military option with Iran still on the table...

Response... The President already said all options are on the table...

135 jorline  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:55:41am

re: #125 Hengineer

Publicly funded taxpayer dollars bailout money?

Bingo...I don't need a private jet or an apartment in Manhattan either.

136 maddogg  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:55:55am
CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper declined to comment Wednesday when the IPT called for comment. Before hanging up, Hooper said “We’re more than happy to cooperate with legitimate media. But we don’t cooperate with those who promote anti-Muslim bigotry.”

Ya know, Hoopie, I didn't have any anti Muslim feelings before 9-11. Hell, I mostly thought of Honda mopeds with a family of 10 riding on them when I thought of Muslims. If I indeed ever thought of Muslims. But your Muslim terrorists, and their Muslim extremist enablers (such as yourself and your organization) changed all that.

/go screw yourself

137 pegcity  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:55:57am

wow the FBI is about 8 years late on this one, idiots

138 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:55:58am

re: #131 JacksonTn

Reine ...I looked at it earlier today and the cover is so great ...Jaunte did a GREAT job ...

It's been updated to include the back cover and info. about pricing, if you want to go back.
Jaunte did indeed do a great job, as did FlakMusic.

139 tfc3rid  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:55:59am

Asked if WH is making political threats have been made by Gibbs/Obama toward Eric Cantor and GOP House members...

He's laughing about it.

140 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:56:02am

re: #123 Nevergiveup

Can't the President order him to stop?

/not a JAG, but I'm wondering the same thing

141 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:56:23am

re: #134 tfc3rid

Asked if military option with Iran still on the table...

Response... The President already said all options are on the table...


is that a yes/no/maybe so? Or a transparent "bet you wish you knew" or "ned to know basis"

142 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:56:39am

re: #130 FurryOldGuyJeans

O can try, but judges tend to view such interference as antithetical to the separation of powers the Constitution lays out.

But this ain't some civilian Judge.
See #129

Maybe his first request was only that--a request. Look for a direct order to be coming down soon.

143 VioletTiger  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:56:48am

re: #118 ggt

Hubby and I watched a press conference yesterday. That guy (I don't even remember his name) is NO Tony Snow.

He kind of seems like a pamby to me. Not a very dynamic guy.

144 jorline  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:56:54am

re: #126 reine.de.tout

OT, and drive-by, for those who weren't here when I posted it earlier, COOKBOOK update, including a preview of the cover, here.

Too cool...I can't wait.

145 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:57:03am

re: #129 Killian Bundy

It isn't a civilian court under the Judicial branch, it's a military tribunal under the military chain of command, part of the Executive branch.

/is the judge disobeying a direct order?

Still is judicial proceedings. And the Constitution has things to say about Executive interference in things judicial .

146 abolitionist  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:57:44am

re: #33 Big Steve

Truly a question and not a challenge......do you consider Steve Emerson credible?

Yes, definitiely.

147 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:57:44am

re: #128 MJ

[Link: www.enquirer.com...]

Danny Pearl paid the price. . .

148 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:58:02am

re: #130 FurryOldGuyJeans

O can try, but judges tend to view such interference as antithetical to the separation of powers the Constitution lays out.

/except, military tribunals aren't part of the Judicial branch, they're part of the Executive branch, under CINC Obama

149 pegcity  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:58:19am

re: #122 jorline

while your at it, why can't i get a used Mirage F1c if CITIBANK just bought a new Dassault 7X jet for 60 million dollars

150 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:58:20am

re: #142 Nevergiveup

But this ain't some civilian Judge.
See #129

Maybe his first request was only that--a request. Look for a direct order to be coming down soon.

Judges are judges, whether they are military or not. This could get real ugly fast if O wants to have an Executive/Judicial showdown.

151 CIA Reject  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:58:28am

re: #132 nyc redneck

i bet that many sensible people in gov't, like this judge, are starting to get impatient w/ the novice o and his stupid decisions.

The fact that BO even tried to delay the trial will cost him dearly in credibility with the military- credibility that he can ill afford to lose.

He is not getting off to a good start as CIC, to say the least.

153 tfc3rid  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:58:50am

re: #149 pegcity

while your at it, why can't i get a used Mirage F1c if CITIBANK just bought a new Dassault 7X jet for 60 million dollars

Citi bought it in 2005... Delivery was due shortly.

154 turn  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:59:03am

Hooper's “We’re more than happy to cooperate with legitimate media. But we don’t cooperate with those who promote anti-Muslim bigotry” comment made me curious. I googled the reporter Mary Jacoby who wrote this story and it pointed me to this article she wrote in Salon back in 04 leading up to Rathergate. I didn't read the whole thing but it appears she was trying to build a case Bush got a favored pass on his Guard service. She even reports some rumor he took a leak on a car in a parking lot during some drunken stupor. I wonder if Mary has done a 180 switching from Salon to IPT. That is all.

[Link: dir.salon.com...]

155 dhg4  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:59:06am

re: #85 MJ

CAIR Says:

Thank CBS for ‘Powerful’ Report on Mistreatment of Palestinians
Posted 1/26/2009 3:39:00 PM

Be sure to thank CBS and Bob Simon for being a Hamas media tool.


During the '91 Gulf War, Simon was captured by Iraq. After he was released he was interviewed on 60 minutes. He said that when his captors realized he was Jewish, they mocked him and he felt like he wanted to squash them like cockroaches. (I believe that was his term.)

It's astounding to me that he expects Israelis to accept, not insults, but terror without fighting back. Given his strong feelings about being insulted, you'd think he'd be a bit more understanding.

Does anyone else remember the interview?

156 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:59:06am

re: #105 FurryOldGuyJeans

Some good news happened today:

Military Judge Denies Obama Request to Suspend Hearings at Guantanamo

Anybody understand how anyone in the military can 'refuse' to follow an executive order from the CinC?

157 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:59:09am

re: #143 VioletTiger

He kind of seems like a pamby to me. Not a very dynamic guy.

which may be a real mistake. . .ego related perhaps, but a mistake in my opinion. Arrogant people sometimes surround themselves with dimmer bulbs. . .makes the effect all that much awesomer. . .

158 jorline  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:59:18am

re: #149 pegcity

while your at it, why can't i get a used Mirage F1c if CITIBANK just bought a new Dassault 7X jet for 60 million dollars

Because you would blow things up with it.
//

159 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:59:41am

re: #148 Killian Bundy

/except, military tribunals aren't part of the Judicial branch, they're part of the Executive branch, under CINC Obama

But isn't that what he just ended 'with the stroke of his mighty pen"?

160 pegcity  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:59:42am

re: #158 jorline

thats beside the point

161 Watcher  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:00:02pm

CAIR might argue that FBI caved in do LGF's demands, just like, you know, US caves in to Israel's demands.

162 tfc3rid  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:00:16pm

re: #159 DisturbedEma

But isn't that what he just ended 'with the stroke of his mighty pen"?

Maybe... He's just not that sure about it...

163 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:00:49pm

re: #155 dhg4

During the '91 Gulf War, Simon was captured by Iraq. After he was released he was interviewed on 60 minutes. He said that when his captors realized he was Jewish, they mocked him and he felt like he wanted to squash them like cockroaches. (I believe that was his term.)

It's astounding to me that he expects Israelis to accept, not insults, but terror without fighting back. Given his strong feelings about being insulted, you'd think he'd be a bit more understanding.

Does anyone else remember the interview?

sorry, I do not, but would like to see it if anyone has a link. . .

164 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:01:09pm

re: #145 FurryOldGuyJeans

Still is judicial proceedings. And the Constitution has things to say about Executive interference in things judicial .

/trust me, there's no separation of powers argument here, this is an internal Executive branch affair that has nothing to do with the Judicial branch, yet

165 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:01:33pm

re: #149 pegcity

while your at it, why can't i get a used Mirage F1c if CITIBANK just bought a new Dassault 7X jet for 60 million dollars

At least they should have forced Citibank to buy American.

166 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:01:34pm

re: #162 tfc3rid

Maybe... He's just not that sure about it...

So- I am as confused as the dear leader? wow. . .humbling that I could acheive such a state. . .

167 Kragar  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:01:35pm

How long before Obama "corrects" this?

168 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:01:45pm

re: #156 eschew_obfuscation

Anybody understand how anyone in the military can 'refuse' to follow an executive order from the CinC?

Unlawful Order comes to mind.

169 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:02:25pm

re: #161 Watcher

CAIR might argue that FBI caved in do LGF's demands, just like, you know, US caves in to Israel's demands.

But Jesse Jackson said the Zionists were out now. . .wait. . .

170 Miss Trixie  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:02:40pm

re: #126 reine.de.tout

OT, and drive-by, for those who weren't here when I posted it earlier, COOKBOOK update, including a preview of the cover, here.

You quoted me on the back cover! Ha! Great job!

*beams*

171 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:02:42pm

re: #150 FurryOldGuyJeans

Judges are judges, whether they are military or not. This could get real ugly fast if O wants to have an Executive/Judicial showdown.

A military judge can also be discharged I believe

172 pegcity  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:02:49pm

re: #165 Kosh's Shadow

apparently their is a rumor that the dassault contract was a kickback for business in France, knowing how the french operate i can believe it

173 VioletTiger  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:02:54pm

re: #156 eschew_obfuscation

Anybody understand how anyone in the military can 'refuse' to follow an executive order from the CinC?


Maybe it wasn't actually an order as yet; just a request.
If he comes back and makes it an order, things will get interesting.

174 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:03:05pm

re: #75 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I have never, ever, in my life, not once, met a Cardinal fan in person.

My uncle who moved out to Arizona is the only one I know of. he even got a Cardinal tattoo. I think that I'm going to adjust the color on my TV until the Cardinals red starts to look green & pretend that they're The Eagles.

175 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:03:16pm

re: #168 FurryOldGuyJeans

Unlawful Order comes to mind.


would dereliction of duty cover it in a tangent kind of way

176 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:03:29pm

re: #168 FurryOldGuyJeans

Unlawful Order comes to mind.


That'd be quite some resistance from within if that's what it is ..... I suppose it's a slap at Obama any way you slice it.

177 unreconstructed rebel  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:03:30pm

re: #168 FurryOldGuyJeans

Unlawful Order comes to mind.

Methinks that this is the right time to stand on principle.

178 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:03:33pm

re: #133 dhg4

Here's a report


Here's a report from the Examiner.

Thanks!

179 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:03:35pm

re: #150 FurryOldGuyJeans

Judges are judges, whether they are military or not. This could get real ugly fast if O wants to have an Executive/Judicial showdown.

/military judges are not part of the Judicial branch of government, it's two totally separate legal systems

180 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:03:40pm

re: #174 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

My uncle who moved out to Arizona is the only one I know of. he even got a Cardinal tattoo. I think that I'm going to adjust the color on my TV until the Cardinals red starts to look green & pretend that they're The Eagles.

That's one way. . .

181 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:03:59pm

re: #164 Killian Bundy

/trust me, there's no separation of powers argument here, this is an internal Executive branch affair that has nothing to do with the Judicial branch, yet

I didn't say anything about the Judicial branch. Military law, justice, and judges do adjudicate things judicial, and that is the crux.

182 jamgarr  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:04:58pm

re: #129 Killian Bundy

It isn't a civilian court under the Judicial branch, it's a military tribunal under the military chain of command, part of the Executive branch.

/is the judge disobeying a direct order?


Not yet. O asked the prosecutors to file a motion requesting a continuance.

183 VioletTiger  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:05:03pm

re: #174 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey
Or just watch the Puppy Bowl on Animal Planet....

184 monkeytime  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:05:09pm

re: #171 Nevergiveup

A military judge can also be discharged I believe

And thus further endearing himself to the Military.

185 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:05:17pm

re: #171 Nevergiveup

A military judge can also be discharged I believe

And civilian judges can be removed from the bench and disbarred. This has the potential of embroiling O over gnats and nit-picking.

186 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:05:37pm

The coolest hatchling video ever.....
Chameleon gives birth

187 dhg4  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:05:40pm

re: #163 DisturbedEma

sorry, I do not, but would like to see it if anyone has a link. . .

found it

But hardly well, for Simon and crew were soon shifted to an intelligence center in downtown Baghdad. "Here the guards were animals—all they did was shout and beat," he says. One day an officer "grabbed me by the face, forced my mouth open and said, 'Yehudi, Yehudi,' which means 'Jew.' Then he spit at me and slapped me. I feared for my life, but I would have killed him if I could, with no more remorse than killing a cockroach."

188 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:05:58pm

Heh. About damn time.

Suck it, Hooper!

189 quickjustice  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:06:09pm

re: #22 quickjustice

Correction: Omar Mohammedi, who STILL sits on Mayor Michael Bloomberg's NYC Human Rights Commission, is the FORMER General Counsel for CAIR, and former President of CAIR-- New York. Those affiliations no longer are mentioned on the NYC Human Rights Commission website: [Link: urbaninfidel.blogspot.com...]

190 MJ  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:06:11pm

Bob Simon on why Muslims would not kill Danny Pearl:

BOB SIMON, CBS "60 MINUTES II" CORRESPONDENT: In fact, I think there's reason to hope he's alive, and here's why I think that. The people who organized his capture and who have been sending these emails are obviously people who are capable, in a certain way, of thinking straight. They're capable of thinking strategically.

They've got Pearl. They've had him for several days now. It would make absolutely no sense from their point of view to kill him. It would only discredit their cause entirely. They have a list of demands. These demands indicate that these are people who believe they have a mission. It would be totally counterproductive, from their point, of view to kill him.


This illustrates why reporters simply do not understand Islam.
[Link: transcripts.cnn.com...]

191 yma o hyd  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:06:16pm

re: #138 reine.de.tout

It's been updated to include the back cover and info. about pricing, if you want to go back.
Jaunte did indeed do a great job, as did FlakMusic.

Love the back cover as well - its going to be a brilliant success!
Thanks to every one of you!

192 Amer-I-Can  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:06:19pm

I can't believe that it took the feds so long to figure it out. Maybe there is hope for them yet! Oh wait, they work for "The One" now....

nevermind....

193 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:06:25pm

re: #181 FurryOldGuyJeans

I didn't say anything about the Judicial branch. Military law, justice, and judges do adjudicate things judicial, and that is the crux.

/military judges are still subject to the military chain of command

194 quickjustice  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:07:31pm

re: #182 jamgarr

The military judge has forced Obama's hand by demanding, in effect, a direct order through the chain of command.

195 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:07:36pm

re: #179 Killian Bundy

/military judges are not part of the Judicial branch of government, it's two totally separate legal systems

I never said they were a part. I know they are not, but they do administer and adjudicate things legal.

All I am saying is this could be a nit-picking time. Lawyers make their "bones" arguing things like this.

196 BenghaziHoops  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:07:45pm

re: #144 jorline

Too cool...I can't wait.


I can't wait either..just one tiny little issue..I've always figured one of the keys to a happy marriage is never..ever..under any circumstances give your wife a cookbook..EVAH!
So I'm keeping the book..If she wants one she'll have to pony up for her own dang cookbook...

197 DeafDog  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:08:01pm

re: #156 eschew_obfuscation

Anybody understand how anyone in the military can 'refuse' to follow an executive order from the CinC?

Good question.

I can only guess that these tribunal judges do not fall under executive branch authority, they are under judicial branch. This makes sense, in a large way, since the judge should be separate from law enforcement.

I agree with the judge. The one semi-valid point, IMO, that has been raised regarding Guantanamo is the slowness in getting a day in court. Delaying that day in court now is wrong.

198 jamgarr  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:08:17pm

re: #194 quickjustice

The military judge has forced Obama's hand by demanding, in effect, a direct order through the chain of command.


We'll see.

199 maddogg  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:08:32pm

re: #190 MJ

They didn't just kill him, they sawed his head off with a knife and cut his screams short. Not exactly like a humane shot in the head.

200 dhg4  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:08:57pm

re: #190 MJ

Bob Simon on why Muslims would not kill Danny Pearl:


This illustrates why reporters simply do not understand Islam.
[Link: transcripts.cnn.com...]

And yet when he was scared for his life when he was captured by the Iraqis. Easy to be brave when it's someone else.

201 monkeytime  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:09:10pm

re: #194 quickjustice

The military judge has forced Obama's hand by demanding, in effect, a direct order through the chain of command.


I really like this judge. He is bringing strength and leadership in a time of confusion and hurt to the families of the victims. If he gets taken out it will not be good for PBO but I don't know if PBO's ego can let him question his authoriti!

202 nyc redneck  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:09:46pm

re: #151 CIA Reject

The fact that BO even tried to delay the trial will cost him dearly in credibility with the military- credibility that he can ill afford to lose.

He is not getting off to a good start as CIC, to say the least.

it was a very appropriate move by the judge.
he brushed aside a ridiculous directive and relied on his own sound judgment.
this is what we need now. sensible, no nonsense people pushing back.

203 Ford_Prefect  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:10:28pm

re: #186 Killgore Trout

The coolest hatchling video ever.....
Chameleon gives birth

Ahh. Nothing like watching old home movies. Thanks Trout.

204 Hengineer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:10:33pm

re: #156 eschew_obfuscation

Anybody understand how anyone in the military can 'refuse' to follow an executive order from the CinC?

When it violates laws, UCMJ, codes of ethics, etc.. I think they can.

The thinking goes that the officers who gassed the Jews during the Holocaust could still have refused to do it despite their orders.

205 Kragar  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:11:09pm

Jimmy Carter's Freedom Fighters:

Hamas accused of torture death of Gaza critic

Osama Atallah, a teacher, was a supporter of the Fatah movement of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, the sworn enemy of Hamas, whose gunmen drove Fatah militia out of Gaza in 2007 and fought Israel's army in a three-week war this month.

His brother Bassam said on Thursday masked gunmen in two jeeps had arrived at the family home in the city of Gaza on Tuesday. They identified themselves as members of Hamas internal security and they arrested his brother Osama.

Bassam said the Hamas security service told the Atallah family Osama would be released in a matter of hours. But a Hamas government official, who is also a member of the Atallah family, later denied the teacher was in custody.

206 CIA Reject  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:11:49pm

re: #202 nyc redneck

it was a very appropriate move by the judge.
he brushed aside a ridiculous directive and relied on his own sound judgment.
this is what we need now. sensible, no nonsense people pushing back.

Agreed, but that is cold comfort for the men and women in uniform who are stuck with a CIC who obviously cares more for the "rights" of those who would murder them than he does for their own welfare.

207 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:11:54pm

re: #193 Killian Bundy

/military judges are still subject to the military chain of command

And civilian judges are subject to their respective State's Bar Association.

All I am saying is this has the potential of derailing O's plan of closing Gitmo. The legal wrangling that could happen is explosive, and time consuming.

208 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:13:07pm

re: #203 Ford_Prefect

I had no idea they gave live birth.

209 unreconstructed rebel  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:13:48pm

re: #204 Hengineer

When it violates laws, UCMJ, codes of ethics, etc.. I think they can.

The thinking goes that the officers who gassed the Jews during the Holocaust could still have refused to do it despite their orders.

The whole thing hinges on whether the order is lawful or not. BHO cannot order a cold-blooded killing. Whether or not he is lawful or how much capital he's willing to spill on this one are interesting questions.

210 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:14:04pm

re: #197 DeafDog

I can only guess that these tribunal judges do not fall under executive branch authority, they are under judicial branch.

*bzzzzzt*

/guess again

211 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:14:27pm

re: #185 FurryOldGuyJeans

And civilian judges can be removed from the bench and disbarred. This has the potential of embroiling O over gnats and nit-picking.

Hope so

212 Cognito  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:14:38pm

re: #207 FurryOldGuyJeans

And civilian judges are subject to their respective State's Bar Association.

All I am saying is this has the potential of derailing O's plan of closing Gitmo. The legal wrangling that could happen is explosive, and time consuming.

I'm not sure there would be any legal wrangling. It would probably just be a court-martial for the judge, or if he's lucky, a simple dismissal.

There could be political wrangling, though, that would be interesting.

213 Kragar  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:14:46pm

re: #208 Killgore Trout

I had no idea they gave live birth.

Me either. Assumed they would lay eggs.

214 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:15:10pm

re: #123 Nevergiveup

Can't the President order him to stop?

I'm wondering if there will be a showdown?

215 ThinkRight  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:15:33pm
The decision to end contacts with CAIR was made quietly last summer as federal prosecutors prepared for a second trial of the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development (HLF), an Islamic charity accused of providing money and political support to the terrorist group Hamas,


Was this before oir after the gave money to Obama Hussein durimng the primaries ?
And is that illegal ?

216 winston06  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:15:54pm

The criminal Iranian regime uses its hostility with the Jews and infidel Americans to shore up its own defenses and support within its borders. The animosity with the US is a strategic objective for the Mullahs. They benefit from it and why should they abandon it? No amount of American good will can stop these morons from doing what they have been doing: Criminal activities, supporting Islamonazis and waging war against the US. Obamble is a moron to believe he can talk these people out of what they do. I have got family in Iran and they are more worried about this offer of talks. They know that this offer is like a life line for the dead Iranian regime. Obamable, like Carter, is going to strengthen these crazy clerics and will pay for this mistake politically.

217 Cognito  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:16:06pm

re: #214 Ward Cleaver

I'm wondering if there will be a showdown?

There's not really a showdown to be had, really. Obama is, unfortunately, the boss.

218 winston06  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:16:14pm

re: #216 winston06

oh crap. wrong thread. LOL

219 Ford_Prefect  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:16:35pm

re: #208 Killgore Trout

I had no idea they gave live birth.

They obviously don't live in Nancy Pelosi's district.

220 monkeytime  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:16:35pm

re: #212 Cognito

I'm not sure there would be any legal wrangling. It would probably just be a court-martial for the judge, or if he's lucky, a simple dismissal.

There could be political wrangling, though, that would be interesting.


I don't think the CIC wants to be the most hated man by the US Navy 10 days into office on the hand he is not going to be disrespected -i.e. I WON. This will be very interesting. I wish I could hear the buzz in dc over this one.

221 Randall Gross  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:17:09pm

re: #123 Nevergiveup

Can't the President order him to stop?

No, I don't think so. That would be executive branch interference in Judicial branch proceedings. Once a trial's started you have to work through the mechanism of the trial itself to stop it to my understanding.

222 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:17:28pm

re: #126 reine.de.tout

OT, and drive-by, for those who weren't here when I posted it earlier, COOKBOOK update, including a preview of the cover, here.

So, will I get tarred and feathered if I ask rein to put the cook book in the BOOK CATEGORY of the spin-off links?

223 Cognito  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:17:48pm

re: #221 Thanos

No, I don't think so. That would be executive branch interference in Judicial branch proceedings. Once a trial's started you have to work through the mechanism of the trial itself to stop it to my understanding.

It's not a trial, though. It's a military tribunal.

Obama's in charge. The commander, so to speak.

224 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:17:51pm

re: #202 nyc redneck

it was a very appropriate move by the judge.
he brushed aside a ridiculous directive and relied on his own sound judgment.
this is what we need now. sensible, no nonsense people pushing back.

The military judge in question found the arguments of the government to suspend the particular hearing to be "unpersuasive". O did it by legal means, and got brought up short by the law and a judge interpreting the law.

225 bosforus  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:18:01pm
FBI Cuts Off CAIR Over Hamas Connections

Great news! Of course, that won't stop the MSM from relying on them for "informed and unbiased information."

226 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:18:03pm

re: #214 Ward Cleaver

I'm wondering if there will be a showdown?

Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said at a briefing today that "this department will be in full compliance with the president's executive order. . . . And so while that executive order is in force and effect, trust me there will be no proceedings continuing down at Gitmo with military commissions."

Susan Crawford, the Pentagon official who approves charges and refers cases to trial, can withdraw charges, an action that would halt proceedings without reference to the judge. It would also allow the government to reinstate charges either in a military commission in Guantanamo or in federal court or military court if it decides to abolish the exiting system of prosecuting detainees.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

227 MJ  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:18:10pm

re: #199 maddogg

re: #200 dhg4

Yes. He believes Muslim terrorists are rational actors that can can be appeased if given the proper attention to what they perceive as their just grievances.

" They're capable of thinking strategically" . Right. We just saw that with Hamas. Earlier we saw that with Hizb'allah. These terrorists are willing to kill 1000's of their own people for the sake of killing a few Jews.

Simon obviously believes Iran would not use the Bomb on Israel once it gets one because they too are rational actors.

"It would make absolutely no sense from their point of view to kill him. It would only discredit their cause entirely," Simon says.

Planting bombs in Ice cream parlors to kill Jewish toddlers doesn't seem to faze Simon belief in the Western model of the rational actor theory.

Simon, and reporters like him, think fundamentalist Muslims are just like the Jews he grew up with. maybe a little more violent, but they can be reasoned with.

It's hard to tell who is more dangerous- folks like Simon or Hamas itself.

228 Ford_Prefect  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:18:12pm

OT

Newt: ‘Return to first principles’

Rather than doling out billions of dollars of taxpayers’ money to failed businesses, which is likely to slow the economy and inhibit recovery, he said, Gingrich suggested the new administration should direct its attention and money to those who actually create most of the jobs in the U.S., small business people, the self-employed and entrepreneurs.

...

Asked by an audience member whether he intended to run for public office again, Gingrich at first said, “I don’t know,” but later allowed that he might be willing to try to create a second “Contract with America.”

Gingrich’s first “Contract with America” led the Republican Party to victory in 1994 by capturing the majority in the U.S. House for the first time in 40 years.

Go Newt!

229 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:18:25pm

So, Obama is now complaining "outraged" about the bonus checks distributed by the financial services sector despite being recipients of the bailout.

Maybe he needs a refresher on what those bonuses represent; a stimulus package for the NYC metro area economy. Consider that for 2008, bonuses were down by the largest amount in 30 years. It was a huge hit to the coffers of NYC and NYS (and significant hits to CT and NJ). It meant the loss of $1 billion in state tax revenue and hundreds of millions in lost city revenue.

That money has to be made up somewhere.

Now, imagine if the bonuses weren't distributed at all... we'd be talking a huge hit to the state and city economy.

Once again, it's validation of the trickle down economic theory - proof positive that spending money by the rich has measurable benefits for everyone.

Note also that the City and State are looking at raising taxes and fees on everyone to close their budget holes - holes that would have otherwise been filled had Wall Street simply held it together this past year.

230 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:18:30pm

re: #207 FurryOldGuyJeans

And civilian judges are subject to their respective State's Bar Association.
All I am saying is this has the potential of derailing O's plan of closing Gitmo. The legal wrangling that could happen is explosive, and time consuming.

No, they're not. The state supreme court has power over judges.

231 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:18:41pm

re: #221 Thanos

No, I don't think so. That would be executive branch interference in Judicial branch proceedings. Once a trial's started you have to work through the mechanism of the trial itself to stop it to my understanding.

Wrong--see my 226

232 quickjustice  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:19:15pm

re: #221 Thanos

I don't know the legalities within the system of military justice, but I'm certain the President can order any member of the U.S. military to perform, or to cease performance of, a particular task. If his order is lawful, it must be obeyed.

233 monkeytime  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:19:54pm

re: #226 Nevergiveup

Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell said at a briefing today that "this department will be in full compliance with the president's executive order. . . . And so while that executive order is in force and effect, trust me there will be no proceedings continuing down at Gitmo with military commissions."

Susan Crawford, the Pentagon official who approves charges and refers cases to trial, can withdraw charges, an action that would halt proceedings without reference to the judge. It would also allow the government to reinstate charges either in a military commission in Guantanamo or in federal court or military court if it decides to abolish the exiting system of prosecuting detainees.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

Well, that answers that. Ego wins.

234 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:20:09pm

re: #221 Thanos

No, I don't think so. That would be executive branch interference in Judicial branch proceedings.

STOP IT!

/MILITARY JUDGES ARE NOT PART OF THE JUDICIAL BRANCH!

235 LGoPs  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:20:40pm

re: #217 Cognito

There's not really a showdown to be had, really. Obama is, unfortunately, the boss.

Then I hope this officer has the moral courage to stand his ground. That can serve a purpose.
I remember Gen Singlaub who I think was the CinC in Korea during Carter's term. He stood up to Jimmy's idea of withdrawing forces and was cashiered for the defiance IIRC. But he did earn the everlasting respect of many miltary officers and brought attention to Jimmy's fucked up decision making process.

236 Randall Gross  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:20:41pm

re: #223 Cognito

It's not a trial, though. It's a military tribunal.

Obama's in charge. The commander, so to speak.

Military tribs are not that much different than civilian courts, I'm not a lawyer but would wager that you still have to use the trial to stop the trial once initiated. In other words O couldn't get the Judge to stop the trial, but he could order the prosecutor to withdraw charges.

237 Cognito  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:20:45pm

re: #234 Killian Bundy

STOP IT!

/MILITARY JUDGES ARE NOT PART OF THE JUDICIAL BRANCH!

Right. They are legislative.
.
.
.
Kidding.

238 Shug  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:21:29pm

excuse me, but why have Nihad Awad and Omar ahmad not been arrested, tried, convicted and sent to prison for terrorism?

239 Hengineer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:21:45pm

re: #236 Thanos

Military tribs are not that much different than civilian courts, I'm not a lawyer but would wager that you still have to use the trial to stop the trial once initiated. In other words O couldn't get the Judge to stop the trial, but he could order the prosecutor to withdraw charges.

I'm sure he could order the judge to "throw the case out of the court"

240 monkeytime  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:22:18pm

re: #238 Shug

excuse me, but why have Nihad Awad and Omar ahmad not been arrested, tried, convicted and sent to prison for terrorism?

Well, the "tried" part is getting harder to come by these days.

241 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:22:20pm

re: #239 Hengineer

I'm sure he could order the judge to "throw the case out of the court"

See my 226

242 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:22:25pm

re: #227 MJ

They are both equally dangerous because they serve the same heinous goal. They just have different tools at their disposal. Useful idiots like Simon, especially as Jews and journalists have a great audience to serve up their kapo propaganda, they reach large numbers of people. They are the right hand of the Hamas jihadi terrorists who do the actual slaughters with their own hands. The western tools are just the philosophical and logistical support. The terrorists are the practical ones, pulling the triggers, blowing themselves up, etc. Two sides of the same coin.

243 Cognito  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:22:36pm

re: #236 Thanos

Military tribs are not that much different than civilian courts, I'm not a lawyer but would wager that you still have to use the trial to stop the trial once initiated. In other words O couldn't get the Judge to stop the trial, but he could order the prosecutor to withdraw charges.

Nope. The judge has no real say-so, really, as to whether the 'trial' continues. The Pentagon can simply turn out the lights.

This will never blow back on Obama. The real embarrassment would be to Gates, so he'll make sure the tribunal ends.

244 Hengineer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:22:58pm

re: #237 Cognito

Right. They are legislative.
.
.
.
Kidding.

Considering I've had idiots try to tell me that judges shouldn't have life terms, and should be elected.....

245 Randall Gross  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:23:00pm

Anyone out there know the real rules on this from the UCMJ?

246 J.S.  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:23:01pm

re: #208 Killgore Trout

Most chameleons lay eggs, some, though do give birth to live young (it's the same with snakes, btw, as you're probably aware...garter snakes give birth to live young, for example)

247 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:23:06pm

re: #212 Cognito

I'm not sure there would be any legal wrangling. It would probably just be a court-martial for the judge, or if he's lucky, a simple dismissal.

There could be political wrangling, though, that would be interesting.

I can virtually guarantee there will be no simple dismissal since the legal rights of any military member is they can request a Court Martial. A Court Martial is held in front of military judges, so an automatic conviction is not assured by any stretch of the imagination.

248 unreconstructed rebel  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:23:13pm

Draft, here we come. I cannot imagine a volunteer force putting up with much more of this.

249 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:23:34pm

Obama's actions are gonna force almost all the charges to go bye bye.

250 Pietr  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:23:45pm

re: #156 eschew_obfuscation

Anybody understand how anyone in the military can 'refuse' to follow an executive order from the CinC?

I'm no lawyer, tho know a bit about the UCMJ (Heh). IIRC, these military tribunals were approved and AUTHORIZED by both the Legislative and Executive-and SCOTUS hasn't ruled them unconstitutional. If there is actual legislation for these tribunals, BO can't just order them out of existence, not as CIC or POTUS. Yes/No?

251 dhg4  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:24:01pm

re: #227 MJ

re: #200 dhg4
Simon, and reporters like him, think fundamentalist Muslims are just like the Jews he grew up with. maybe a little more violent, but they can be reasoned with.

It's hard to tell who is more dangerous- folks like Simon or Hamas itself.

Clearly Hamas is more dangerous. But Simon and his ilk are their enablers.

These are people who purport to be skeptics, but their skepticism is directed to people who are most like them. Those who are different are presumed innocent and misunderstood.

252 nyc redneck  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:24:31pm

re: #206 CIA Reject

Agreed, but that is cold comfort for the men and women in uniform who are stuck with a CIC who obviously cares more for the "rights" of those who would murder them than he does for their own welfare.

it is beyond sinister how o is reaching out to endear himself to the enemy.
he is a villain. he never said he would put america first and stupid people put a hack like this in office.

253 Hengineer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:24:36pm

re: #241 Nevergiveup

See my 226

And yet the judge is still attempting to go ahead with the case, so could you explain it yourself, without directly quoting someone else who isn't explaining this specific case at all?

254 quickjustice  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:24:51pm

re: #229 lawhawk

You're missing the big picture: Rule 13 of Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals". The point is to personally attack an evil, fat cat capitalist, thereby demonizing and isolating both him and anyone who purports to defend him. This is a strategy of the Alinsky-trained left. Expect to see many more such personal attacks, which will require ad hominem counter-attacks.

Thanks to Obama and other Alinsky-trained radicals, the tone of our political discourse is about to take a steep plunge downward.

255 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:25:17pm

re: #230 MandyManners

No, they're not. The state supreme court has power over judges.

Ok, I was mistaken in who had ultimate control, my bad.

256 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:25:18pm

re: #245 Thanos

Anyone out there know the real rules on this from the UCMJ?

/Uniform Code of Military Justice

257 ThinkRight  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:25:22pm

And Charles has been covering all you Racist Islamophobes with the FBI
You better tell him thanks
Thanks Charles

258 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:25:59pm

re: #252 nyc redneck

he never said he would put america first

Terrifying.

259 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:26:24pm

re: #245 Thanos

Anyone out there know the real rules on this from the UCMJ?

UCMJ.

260 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:26:33pm

re: #248 unreconstructed rebel

Draft, here we come. I cannot imagine a volunteer force putting up with much more of this.

You only need a draft if you plan on fighting wars. There ain't no wars no more now that The One has assumed his place in history.

261 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:26:48pm

The Senators are back in session again and discussing the impending removal of Rod Blagojevich as governor of Illinois.

262 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:27:49pm

re: #250 Pietr

I'm no lawyer, tho know a bit about the UCMJ (Heh). IIRC, these military tribunals were approved and AUTHORIZED by both the Legislative and Executive-and SCOTUS hasn't ruled them unconstitutional. If there is actual legislation for these tribunals, BO can't just order them out of existence, not as CIC or POTUS. Yes/No?

That's an interesting take .... I really have no idea....just watching the subject develop here .... Thanks!

263 unreconstructed rebel  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:27:54pm

re: #260 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

You only need a draft if you plan on fighting wars. There ain't no wars no more now that The One has assumed his place in history.

Then, I guess we'll strut the world's stage sans armed forces.

264 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:27:56pm
265 Hengineer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:28:13pm

re: #260 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

You only need a draft if you plan on fighting wars. There ain't no wars no more now that The One has assumed his place in history.

We have no achieved Peace in Our Time&trade

266 Hengineer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:28:35pm

re: #265 Hengineer

We have now achieved Peace in Our Time

/fixed....darnit

267 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:28:45pm

re: #257 ThinkRight

And Charles has been covering all you Racist Islamophobes with the FBI
You better tell him thanks
Thanks Charles

huh?

268 CIA Reject  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:28:47pm

re: #252 nyc redneck

it is beyond sinister how o is reaching out to endear himself to the enemy.
he is a villain. he never said he would put america first and stupid people put a hack like this in office.

All we can hope for is that the people who voted for him are not stupid enough to make the same mistake twice.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me!" as the old folks back home used to say.

269 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:29:03pm

re: #234 Killian Bundy

STOP IT!

/MILITARY JUDGES ARE NOT PART OF THE JUDICIAL BRANCH!

They may NOT be part of the Judicial Branch of the Federal Government, but they ARE part of the judicial arm of any of the armed forces.

270 Ford_Prefect  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:29:05pm

OK, time to go. Play nice.

Later Lizards!

271 seekeroftruth  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:29:47pm

re: #229 lawhawk

So, Obama is now complaining "outraged" about the bonus checks distributed by the financial services sector despite being recipients of the bailout.

What a hypocrite: Just a few examples....
Stimulus has plum for lawmaker's son
Obama ethics question: New WH lawyer's firm sought bailout

272 Gretchen G.Tiger  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:29:56pm

gotta go, folks, have a great day

273 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:30:07pm

re: #253 Hengineer

And yet the judge is still attempting to go ahead with the case, so could you explain it yourself, without directly quoting someone else who isn't explaining this specific case at all?

If the Pentagon withdraws the charges, it is out of the Judges hands

274 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:30:13pm

re: #255 FurryOldGuyJeans

Ok, I was mistaken in who had ultimate control, my bad.

A state supreme court has an office usually titled Office of Attorney Regulation. I learned this when I had to sic the Colorado Supreme Court on an attorney.

275 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:30:40pm

re: #269 FurryOldGuyJeans

They may NOT be part of the Judicial Branch of the Federal Government, but they ARE part of the judicial arm of any of the armed forces.

/exactly, which is part of the Executive branch of the Federal government

276 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:31:03pm

re: #248 unreconstructed rebel

Draft, here we come. I cannot imagine a volunteer force putting up with much more of this.

I been saying for months that I can see lots of officers leaving, too (resigning their commissions).

277 nyc redneck  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:32:08pm

re: #254 quickjustice

You're missing the big picture: Rule 13 of Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals". The point is to personally attack an evil, fat cat capitalist, thereby demonizing and isolating both him and anyone who purports to defend him. This is a strategy of the Alinsky-trained left. Expect to see many more such personal attacks, which will require ad hominem counter-attacks.

Thanks to Obama and other Alinsky-trained radicals, the tone of our political discourse is about to take a steep plunge downward.

they will go after anyone,
look how o did this to a decent citizen like 'joe the plumber' who just asked a
simple question.

278 unreconstructed rebel  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:32:14pm

So, I suppose we are to apologize for placing the USS Cole where it would be subject to attack?

279 Hengineer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:32:32pm

re: #273 Nevergiveup

If the Pentagon withdraws the charges, it is out of the Judges hands

But the Pentagon has not withdrawn the charges, it was just an executive order to halt the proceedings until Gitmo is finalized?

280 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:32:45pm

re: #276 Ward Cleaver

I been saying for months that I can see lots of officers leaving, too (resigning their commissions).


IIRC, there was a lot of noise about 'officer drain' during the Clinton years while they were out spending the 'Peace Dividend' and cutting the budgets of the armed forces.

281 LGoPs  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:32:53pm

re: #254 quickjustice

You're missing the big picture: Rule 13 of Saul Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals". The point is to personally attack an evil, fat cat capitalist, thereby demonizing and isolating both him and anyone who purports to defend him. This is a strategy of the Alinsky-trained left. Expect to see many more such personal attacks, which will require ad hominem counter-attacks.

Thanks to Obama and other Alinsky-trained radicals, the tone of our political discourse is about to take a steep plunge downward.

You're right. I think this tone actually started with the fucking Clinton's and the politics of personal destruction. A concept they pretty much invented and refined into an art form. The only thing that drives me nuts is the media has everyone convinced that the American people are tired of partisan fighting - as if it's equally doled out by both sides. The only thing the republicans seem to be good at doing is a real fine impression of a punching bag........

282 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:32:54pm
283 Hengineer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:33:10pm

re: #278 unreconstructed rebel

So, I suppose we are to apologize for placing the USS Cole where it would be subject to attack?

I know my ship has never pulled into Yemen since I've been onboard. We've pulled into Oman, though.

284 Rexatosis  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:33:18pm

I will give props to the Obama administration for this decision (hey even a broken clock gets the time right twice a day).

re: #75 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

One of my best friends is a die-hard Cardinals fan (Hart to Smith era, that's Jackie Smith). He is ridiculously psyched for the game. Never figure Cardinal Bob's team would make the Super Bowl before the Cubs made the World Series again but it gives this Cubs fan hope--or the feeling of impending doom of armeggedon brought on Hope 'n Change;)

285 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:33:29pm

re: #275 Killian Bundy

/exactly, which is part of the Executive branch of the Federal government

Still doesn't mean that whatever the president says or wants is what happens.

286 unreconstructed rebel  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:33:51pm

re: #279 Hengineer

But the Pentagon has not withdrawn the charges, it was just an executive order to halt the proceedings until Gitmo is finalized?

WTF has the Cole incident to do with Gitmo? Has the gov't lost its mind?

287 quickjustice  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:33:55pm

re: #281 LGoPs

Remember, Hilary Clinton also is Alinsky-trained.

288 Ward Cleaver  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:34:27pm

re: #271 seekeroftruth

So, Obama is now complaining "outraged" about the bonus checks distributed by the financial services sector despite being recipients of the bailout.

What a hypocrite: Just a few examples....
Stimulus has plum for lawmaker's son

Tom Hill, legislative representative for NPCA, said the group, including the younger Mr. Obey, refrains from lobbying Mr. Obey or his office to avoid any appearance of a conflict of interest.

"Craig certainly never lobbies his father, and takes pains to make that crystal clear. NPCA has been laying the groundwork for years about the NPS maintenance backlog which [the Government Accountability Office] says is over $8.5 billion, and the House leaders have historically been very supportive of the national parks. The Senate tends to be more conservative, particularly where public land issues are concerned," he said.

What a bunch of BS. The term "arm's length relationship" comes to mind.

289 unreconstructed rebel  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:34:55pm

re: #283 Hengineer

I know my ship has never pulled into Yemen since I've been onboard. We've pulled into Oman, though.

Hat tip to a sailor in service.

290 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:35:04pm

re: #279 Hengineer

But the Pentagon has not withdrawn the charges, it was just an executive order to halt the proceedings until Gitmo is finalized?

The pentagon spokesman made it quite clear that the Presidents Orders will be carried out. So far all the other Military Judges have gone along. This one has not so the Pentagon may be forced to withdraw the charges. If you want an exact detailed Military law answer, I'll get you one in 9 days. I'm on duty the first weekend in Feb. and the Jag Office is across the hall from me.

291 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:35:05pm

re: #286 unreconstructed rebel

WTF has the Cole incident to do with Gitmo? Has the gov't lost its mind?

The asshole who is accused of planning the Cole attack is a detainee at Gitmo.

292 Athos  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:36:11pm

re: #250 Pietr

I believe the legislation enacted in 2006 regarding the establishment of military tribunals done in response to the Hamden SCOTUS rulings did create the formal rules around the tribunals. I also believe that you are correct, once this was enacted as law via Legislative and Executive Branch actions, the President cannot use an executive order to invalidate the law. The only way the law can be repealed under the Constitution is to pass and sign a new law that invalidates the first law.

Otherwise, the President can just provide an executive order invalidating any law he doesn't want to follow.

293 J.S.  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:36:23pm

re: #286 unreconstructed rebel

The detainee at Gitmo is accused of having planned the terrorist attack on the USS Cole back in 2000.

294 debutaunt  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:36:27pm

re: #223 Cognito

It's not a trial, though. It's a military tribunal.

Obama's in charge. The commander, so to speak.

A nation of laws - how cool is that?

295 unreconstructed rebel  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:36:32pm

re: #291 FurryOldGuyJeans

The asshole who is accused of planning the Cole attack is a detainee at Gitmo.

Of course. Doh. ... but still.

296 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:36:37pm

"legitimate media", what the hell?

297 Hengineer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:36:48pm

re: #286 unreconstructed rebel

WTF has the Cole incident to do with Gitmo? Has the gov't lost its mind?

Because the people accused of orchestrating the Cole incident are being held at Gitmo.

298 Randall Gross  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:37:19pm

re: #256 Killian Bundy

/Uniform Code of Military Justice

Yeah, I'm reading now, found this, but I'm not sure if this is the applicable section :

862. ART. 62. APPEAL BY THE UNITED STATES
(a) (1) In a trial by court-martial in which a military judge presides and in which a punitive discharge may be adjudged, the United States may appeal an order or ruling of the military judge which terminates the proceedings with respect to a charge or specifications or which excludes evidence that is substantial proof of a fact material in the proceeding. However, the United States may not appeal an order or ruling that is, or amounts to, a finding of not guilty with respect to the charge or specification.
(2) An appeal of an order or ruling may not be taken unless the trial counsel provides the military judge with written notice of appeal from the order or ruling within 72 hours of the order or ruling. Such notice shall include a certification by the
(b) An appeal under this section shall be forwarded by means prescribed under regulations of the President directly to the Court of Military Review and shall, whenever practicable, have priority over all other proceedings before that court. In ruling on an appeal under this section, the Court of Military review may act only with respect to matters of law, notwithstanding section 866(c) of this title (article 66(c)).
(c) Any period of delay resulting from an appeal under this section shall be excluded in deciding any issue regarding denial of a speedy trial unless an appropriate authority determines that the appeal was filed solely for the purpose of delay with the knowledge that it was totally frivolous and without merit.

299 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:37:52pm

re: #223 Cognito

It's not a trial, though. It's a military tribunal.

Obama's in charge. The commander, so to speak.

A military tribunal IS the law, military law.

300 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:38:01pm

re: #215 ThinkRight

Was this before oir after the gave money to Obama Hussein durimng the primaries ?
And is that illegal ?

Wonder why it was never looked into. . .along with his donations via credit card and web site. . .


Did anyone SNIP those articles about his spending from September? IIRC- we are now seeing it as public policy. . .spend first, there is always more money to be had. . .

301 ThinkRight  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:38:49pm

re: #267 ggt

huh?


From above

Since LGF has been targeted by CAIR in “hate speech” complaints to the FBI, this is very welcome news.

302 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:39:08pm

re: #298 Thanos

Your missing the whole chain of command thing,

303 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:39:35pm

re: #288 Ward Cleaver

Why is his party not plastered all over the article? Just his name. . .why oh why////

304 lobo91  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:40:03pm

re: #273 Nevergiveup

If the Pentagon withdraws the charges, it is out of the Judges hands

That's the only legal way they can force a halt to the proceedings.

The military chain of command does not have the legal authority to tell a military judge how to proceed in his own courtroom.

Military judges, other JAG officers, chaplains, inspectors general, and medical officers have considerable leeway and independence in the course of their duties. Yes, they are subject to the orders of their superiors, but not with regard to how they handle individual cases.

305 lawhawk  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:40:27pm

Blood boiling time:

Conservative Catholic priest Floriano Abrahamowicz said Thursday that "the only thing certain" about the gas chambers "was that they were used for disinfection."

Abrahamowicz, of Treviso in northern Italy, was quoted by the Tribuna di Treviso on Thursday in a report that received worldwide coverage due to the pope's recent rehabilitation of a bishop who denied the Holocaust, sparking a battle between the Vatican and the Chief Rabbinate of Israel.

Abrahamowicz is a traditionalist like British-born Richard Williamson, whose excommunication was lifted by Pope Benedict on Saturday along with three other bishops after 20 years of exile.

The only certain thing?

The only thing I'm certain of is that Abrahamowicz is a Holocaust denier/minimizer (same difference) who is trying to excuse away the existence of the Holocaust and what happened to the millions of Jews who were murdered at the hands of the Nazis precisely because they were Jewish.

[frak]

306 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:41:12pm

re: #302 Nevergiveup

Your missing the whole chain of command thing,

Someone quotes an article from the UCMJ and that is missing the chain of command? Hardly.

307 Hengineer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:41:26pm

re: #304 lobo91

That's the only legal way they can force a halt to the proceedings.

The military chain of command does not have the legal authority to tell a military judge how to proceed in his own courtroom.

Military judges, other JAG officers, chaplains, inspectors general, and medical officers have considerable leeway and independence in the course of their duties. Yes, they are subject to the orders of their superiors, but not with regard to how they handle individual cases.

True, I know the military legal counsels can withhold information even if ordered to because of the lawyer-client privilege afforded them, the whole "act outside of the chain of command when necessary" thing.

308 BatGuano  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:41:46pm

Don't tell Obama.

309 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:41:55pm

re: #304 lobo91

That's the only legal way they can force a halt to the proceedings.

The military chain of command does not have the legal authority to tell a military judge how to proceed in his own courtroom.

Military judges, other JAG officers, chaplains, inspectors general, and medical officers have considerable leeway and independence in the course of their duties. Yes, they are subject to the orders of their superiors, but not with regard to how they handle individual cases.

Yes and that's what they are gonna do and it's going to be that much harder to then try this bastard.

310 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:42:02pm

re: #304 lobo91

That's the only legal way they can force a halt to the proceedings.

The military chain of command does not have the legal authority to tell a military judge how to proceed in his own courtroom.

Military judges, other JAG officers, chaplains, inspectors general, and medical officers have considerable leeway and independence in the course of their duties. Yes, they are subject to the orders of their superiors, but not with regard to how they handle individual cases.

THAT is something so many people here are having a hard time understanding.

311 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:42:49pm

re: #205 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

YES YOU CAN TRUST HAMAS!

312 lobo91  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:42:58pm

re: #302 Nevergiveup

Your missing the whole chain of command thing,

You're a USNR dentist, aren't you?

Can Obama give you an order to use a particular technique when fixing an individual sailor's teeth?

313 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:43:26pm

re: #304 lobo91

That's the only legal way they can force a halt to the proceedings.

The military chain of command does not have the legal authority to tell a military judge how to proceed in his own courtroom.

Military judges, other JAG officers, chaplains, inspectors general, and medical officers have considerable leeway and independence in the course of their duties. Yes, they are subject to the orders of their superiors, but not with regard to how they handle individual cases.

/now that's a good answer

314 WriterMom  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:43:34pm

re: #305 lawhawk

Abramovitch? Convert?

Even worse. GA.

315 debutaunt  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:43:37pm

re: #248 unreconstructed rebel

Draft, here we come. I cannot imagine a volunteer force putting up with much more of this.

The left doesn't seem to be happy about the volunteer military.

316 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:44:01pm

re: #264 WriterMom

Saul Alinsky Primer

Thanks. I have a pretty good idea we all need to get educated on this guy (well, those of us who aren't already, anyway).

317 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:44:06pm

re: #312 lobo91

You're a USNR dentist, aren't you?

Can Obama give you an order to use a particular technique when fixing an individual sailor's teeth?

Nope, but I can be removed. Anyway, that's not what is happening here. The pentagon is going to withdraw the charges. They said as much in the article. See my 226

318 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:44:09pm

re: #311 WriterMom

YES YOU CAN TRUST HAMAS!

Not if it's been left out of the refrigerator overnight!

Oh ,,, wait,, I thought you typed Hummus! ,, nevahmind !

319 Pietr  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:44:50pm

re: #310 FurryOldGuyJeans

THAT is something so many people here are having a hard time understanding.


I think I addressed this from another line also, in my post #250......

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

320 sattv4u2  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:45:04pm

re: #315 debutaunt

The left doesn't seem to be happy about the volunteer military.

321 J.S.  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:45:06pm

Obama is speaking now -- live. What I find really, really curious is that he keeps referring to "The American people" -- like he's not part of this -- as if "The American people" are some alien bunch he needs to address on occasion...send them "a message".

322 Hengineer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:45:14pm

re: #311 WriterMom

YES YOU CAN TRUST HAMAS!

You can trust them to start firing rockets regardless of the latest "ceasefire" agreement reached by Israel and the UN, once they actually get their hands on rockets.

323 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:45:15pm

re: #311 WriterMom

YES YOU CAN TRUST HAMAS!

ACK. . .what a stomach ache. . .I feel ill with that. . .pretty soon a new Ben and Jerry flavor. . .

Hamas PECAN work with you. . .

324 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:45:49pm
325 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:46:15pm

It's encouraging to see that some elements within the US govt are still managing to try to protect us from our enemies.

326 debutaunt  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:46:19pm

re: #260 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

You only need a draft if you plan on fighting wars. There ain't no wars no more now that The One has assumed his place in history.

He's gonna need a bunch of taupe-shirts to enforce the groundbreaking changes here.

327 lobo91  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:46:21pm

re: #307 Hengineer

True, I know the military legal counsels can withhold information even if ordered to because of the lawyer-client privilege afforded them, the whole "act outside of the chain of command when necessary" thing.

It has to work that way for the specific branches I mentioned, or the system would fall apart.

If a unit commander could order a chaplain or psychologist to reveal what a Soldier told them, would anyone talk to them? Of course not.

The same thing applies to military judges and JAG officers. If the chain of command can give them orders on how to handle a particular case, why bother having them?

328 ThinkRight  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:46:21pm

This is only week two of CHANGE and we have kissed up to the radical muslims and the Taliban has endorsed Obama
The dems are going to bankrupt the U.S. and Algore has put that bankruptcy on the fast track.
We are so screwed
We might not make it 4 years

329 Nevergiveup  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:46:30pm

Since I am usually going to root for the steelers, I really don't want to be reminded that the Roonys support Obama

330 Rexatosis  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:46:54pm

Okay now back to criticizing Pres. Obama

Regarding the military courts. They are part of the judicial system. They are an inferior court created by Congress, appeals of military court system rulings go from the military courts system of appeals directly to the Supreme Court. Constitutionally the Military Court System was created by an Act of Congress and can only be modified by an act of Congress. The Military Court System is not part of the Federal Courts which are a separate inferior Court System also created by Congress. This is High School government class level stuff that President Obama and his team should know. Team Obama will get their heads collectively handed to them over this. And POTUS taught "Constitutional Law"? Where the bleep is the White House staff to keep this twit from making idiotic moves like this? Opps, I forgot they made the decision and are now just beginning to study it.

331 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:46:57pm

re: #305 lawhawk

Welcome back. . .Hater! Have a spot of tea and some "revision bisquets"

332 J.S.  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:47:05pm

I'm curious now -- did George W. Bush ever refer to "The American People" ?

333 unreconstructed rebel  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:47:17pm

re: #304 lobo91

So, are we saying that to tell somebody to ignore the law is in itself an unlawful order?

I'm hopen.

334 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:47:38pm

re: #310 FurryOldGuyJeans

THAT is something so many people here are having a hard time understanding.

You were talking about something else.

This could get real ugly fast if O wants to have an Executive/Judicial showdown.

/it's entirely Executive

335 Randall Gross  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:47:46pm

I'm still trying to find the pertinent section, because I think the article I quoted above covers regular courts martial, not special or miltary tribs. I found this excellent page of military law reference links, you might want to bookmark it for future reference.

336 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:50:14pm

re: #305 lawhawk

He also brings up the equivication between the Holocaust and the Israeli defensive war in Gaza. Which is right out of the mouths of today's leftists.

337 the_flying_pig  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:50:27pm

Oh, goody! This is by no mean over. LGF, Investigative Project on Terrorism, the Jawas Report, and Pajamas Media still have to expose CAIR for what it really is: a fully legitimate terrorist front to push Islam on America. Step it up!

338 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:50:32pm

"The Commission is unaware of how conducting an arraignment would preclude any option by the administration," said Pohl in a written opinion, portions of which were read to The Post. "Congress passed the military commissions act, which remains in effect. The Commission is bound by the law as it currently exists, not as it may change in the future."

Nashiri is facing arraignment on Feb. 9, and Pohl said the proceedings would go ahead....


FROM AN ARTICLE I FOUND. Remember, the "O" is really not the head honcho. Even HE is subject to rules. Never let him forget that. This judge sure aint!

339 lobo91  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:51:24pm

re: #333 unreconstructed rebel

So, are we saying that to tell somebody to ignore the law is in itself an unlawful order?

I'm hopen.

Actually, I think that's basically what the judge in question is saying. He said that he was unpersuaded by their arguments.

He can certainly be removed from the case, but having the prosecutor withdraw the charges would be a lot more efficient.

340 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:51:38pm

re: #319 Pietr

I think I addressed this from another line also, in my post #250......

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

The whole thing is that O, through the military chain of command, made legal motions before the military judges to suspend the hearings for 120 days. Nearly all the judges complied, the holdout judge found the legal arguments of the government to suspend the hearings to be unpersuasive and so is now continuing with the hearing he was presiding over.

For O to over-ride this judge will have to kick it up a notch and risk having lots of public attention focused on this matter he can ill afford.

341 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:51:40pm
342 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:52:30pm

re: #321 J.S.

Obama is speaking now -- live. What I find really, really curious is that he keeps referring to "The American people" -- like he's not part of this -- as if "The American people" are some alien bunch he needs to address on occasion...send them "a message".

I think Bush used to refer to "the people". Apparently BHO has to differentiate, being Messiah for the whole world, and all. Naturally, he has to clarify when he's only referring to Americans, specifically.

/sarc

343 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:54:12pm

re: #324 Iron Fist

I wonder what our O supporting retired Navy Chief thinks of all this. O might as well piss on military graves for all the respect he is showing for the sacrifices of past and present military members.

345 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:55:00pm

Found this crazy shit too:Military to Pledge Oath To Obama, Not Constitution
Conservative News and Reporting "News for the Rest of Us" Michele Chang
Secretary of Defense Robert Gates is extremely frustrated with orders that the White House is contemplating. According to sources at the Pentagon, including all branches of the armed forces, the Obama Administration may break with a centuries-old tradition.

A spokesman for General James Cartwright, the Vice Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, states that the Obama Administration wants to have soldiers and officers pledge a loyalty oath directly to the office of the President, and no longer to the Constitution.

"The oath to the Constitution is as old as the document itself." the spokesman said, "At no time in American history, not even in the Civil War, did the oath change or the subject of the oath differ. It has always been to the Constitution."

The back-and-forth between the White House and the Defense Department was expected as President George W. Bush left office. President Obama has already signed orders to close Guantanamo and to pull combat troops from Iraq. But, this, say many at the Defense Department, goes to far.

"Technically, we can't talk about it before it becomes official policy." the spokesman continued. "However, the Defense Department, including the Secretary, will not take this laying down. Expect a fight from the bureaucracy and the brass."

Sources at the White House had a different point of view. In a circular distributed by White House Press Secretary Robert Gibbs, the rationale for the change was made more clear.

"The President feels that the military has been too indoctrinated by the old harbingers of hate: nationalism, racism, and classism. By removing an oath to the American society, the soldiers are less likely to commit atrocities like those at Abu Ghraib."

"We expect a lot of flak over this," the classified memo continues. "But those that would be most against it are those looking either for attention or control."

The time frame for the changes are unknown. However, it is more likely that the changes will be made around the July 4th holiday, in order to dampen any potential backlash. The difference in the oath will actually only be slight. The main differences will be the new phrasing. It is expected that the oath to the Constitution will be entirely phased out within two years.


DONT SHOOT ME, it was found on Gellers site. lol She is asking if anyone can find out if it is true or not. NO, I do not subscribe to her site either. Sometimes I just pop on in to see what she is ranting about from day to day.

But, is is true?

346 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:56:10pm

re: #344 LSD

Detailed Report On CAIR's Ties To Hamas:

- The Council on American-Islamic Relations Created For Hamas -
An FBI Investigation Reveals CAIR's Founder Omar Ahmad
"A Leader Of The Palestinian Committee"

Now how many years did it take for the FBI to figure that out?

We have a huge Muslim infestation problem in the government, and I am not at all assured O will call for an exterminator.

347 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:56:35pm
348 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 12:57:26pm

re: #345 UberInfidel67

Good GOD! That just HAS to be rumor or some dry internet sarcasm.

I sure hope it is.

349 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:00:21pm

re: #345 UberInfidel67

DONT SHOOT ME, it was found on Gellers site. lol She is asking if anyone can find out if it is true or not. NO, I do not subscribe to her site either. Sometimes I just pop on in to see what she is ranting about from day to day.

But, is is true?

It's total bull[expletive deleted].

/consider the source

350 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:01:31pm

re: #334 Killian Bundy

You were talking about something else.

This could get real ugly fast if O wants to have an Executive/Judicial showdown.

/it's entirely Executive

You really want to get into a semantic pissing contest, or what?

The judge legally blocked a legal request of the government. End of story.

If O wants to over-turn the decision he needs to do it by the law. And THAT could get messy and very public.

351 lobo91  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:02:14pm

re: #345 UberInfidel67

I can't imagine that even Obama would be crazy enough to attempt something like that.

I know what my answer would be, if anyone tried to require such an oath from me.

/E-9 with 29 years of service at present

352 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:02:47pm

re: #330 Rexatosis

Okay now back to criticizing Pres. Obama

Regarding the military courts. They are part of the judicial system. They are an inferior court created by Congress, appeals of military court system rulings go from the military courts system of appeals directly to the Supreme Court. Constitutionally the Military Court System was created by an Act of Congress and can only be modified by an act of Congress. The Military Court System is not part of the Federal Courts which are a separate inferior Court System also created by Congress. This is High School government class level stuff that President Obama and his team should know. Team Obama will get their heads collectively handed to them over this. And POTUS taught "Constitutional Law"? Where the bleep is the White House staff to keep this twit from making idiotic moves like this? Opps, I forgot they made the decision and are now just beginning to study it.

Interesting. So this is a textbook separation of powers violation?

I thought Bush was involved in getting this started. Does that mean Bush put in a request that was simply honored (vs. Obama's, which was not)?

What about the talk of the Pentagon dropping the charges?

Realistically, the very idea of a politician interfering with an trial in progress does seem like the sort of thing that we would very definitely have rules against - and that our "Constitutional law professor" should be keenly aware of. We may be heading towards being a Banana Republic, but maybe we still have some remaining legacy from when we weren't.

353 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:05:05pm

re: #345 UberInfidel67

I don't believe a word of it.

354 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:06:17pm

re: #351 lobo91

I can't imagine that even Obama would be crazy enough to attempt something like that.

I know what my answer would be, if anyone tried to require such an oath from me.

/E-9 with 29 years of service at present

Thank YOU, for you service!

I can imagine O being crazy enough to contemplate something like this. Look at his reaction to getting balked by the House Republicans to the now approved bailout legislation. "I Won!" is not the words of someone that understands the Constitution and the limits on the Presidency.

355 lobo91  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:07:03pm

re: #352 Optimizer

Interesting. So this is a textbook separation of powers violation?

I thought Bush was involved in getting this started. Does that mean Bush put in a request that was simply honored (vs. Obama's, which was not)?

What about the talk of the Pentagon dropping the charges?

Realistically, the very idea of a politician interfering with an trial in progress does seem like the sort of thing that we would very definitely have rules against - and that our "Constitutional law professor" should be keenly aware of. We may be heading towards being a Banana Republic, but maybe we still have some remaining legacy from when we weren't.

This whole case actually raises the spectre of one of the arguments the left used to try to stop the military tribunal process in the first place, which is the possibility of undue influence on the proceedings when everyone involved works for the government.

This is exactly why we have military judges and independent JAG officers in the first place, so the chain of command can't just order the result they want from a trial.

356 J.S.  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:07:08pm

re: #345 UberInfidel67

Now that is so obviously stupid (or at least it should be) and untrue...It's disgusting and despicable (btw, you don't happen to note the parallels with the nazis? the German military oath was changed -- remember that? to pledge personal allegiance to *itler....yes, that was done, but under the nazis.)

357 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:08:19pm

re: #353 OldLineTexan
I was expecting a trackback to The Onion for it. Wouldn't really suprise me though...He is the One He has been waiting for. lol lol

358 lobo91  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:09:48pm

re: #354 FurryOldGuyJeans

I can imagine O being crazy enough to contemplate something like this. Look at his reaction to getting balked by the House Republicans to the now approved bailout legislation. "I Won!" is not the words of someone that understands the Constitution and the limits on the Presidency.

Oh, I can imagine him contemplating it. I can't imagine his advisors letting it go beyond the "wouldn't it be nice if..." stage in a meeting, though.

If they did, he'd definitely need some new advisors.

359 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:12:11pm

re: #350 FurryOldGuyJeans

You really want to get into a semantic pissing contest, or what?

Not really.

/just get frustrated sometimes with armchair lawyering

360 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:14:33pm

re: #348 FurryOldGuyJeans

Good GOD! That just HAS to be rumor or some dry internet sarcasm.

I sure hope it is.

It's gotten pretty challenging to tell the difference.

361 Randall Gross  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:15:25pm

re: #359 Killian Bundy

Not really.

/just get frustrated sometimes with armchair lawyering

mea culpa, and I admitted I'm armchair speculating above, just saying I can't see a military judge saying no to the president without something to stand on.

362 Killian Bundy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:17:05pm

re: #358 lobo91

Oh, I can imagine him contemplating it. I can't imagine his advisors letting it go beyond the "wouldn't it be nice if..." stage in a meeting, though.

If they did, he'd definitely need some new advisors.

It's obvious that this is some ridiculous "Fuhrer oath" rumor.

/the legal mechanics of actually changing the oath aside, almost all members of the military would just refuse to take it

363 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:17:15pm

re: #354 FurryOldGuyJeans

Thank YOU, for you service!

I can imagine O being crazy enough to contemplate something like this. Look at his reaction to getting balked by the House Republicans to the now approved bailout legislation. "I Won!" is not the words of someone that understands the Constitution and the limits on the Presidency.

It's not the words of a mature, pschologically-healthy, adult, either.

364 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:20:08pm

re: #355 lobo91

This whole case actually raises the spectre of one of the arguments the left used to try to stop the military tribunal process in the first place, which is the possibility of undue influence on the proceedings when everyone involved works for the government.

This is exactly why we have military judges and independent JAG officers in the first place, so the chain of command can't just order the result they want from a trial.

I'm not sure I follow you completely, in the first paragraph. Perhaps because I haven't followed this stuff from the beginning.

365 Optimizer  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:25:16pm

re: #356 J.S.

Now that is so obviously stupid (or at least it should be) and untrue...It's disgusting and despicable (btw, you don't happen to note the parallels with the nazis? the German military oath was changed -- remember that? to pledge personal allegiance to *itler....yes, that was done, but under the nazis.)

Let's remember that this is the team that was advocating partial slavery within a day or two after getting elected. Attention was drawn to that plan, and suddenly the story changed. Perhaps if this story is true, the story will change quickly with this bit of insanity as well.

366 abolitionist  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:26:47pm

re: #345 UberInfidel67

Found this crazy shit too:Military to Pledge Oath To Obama, Not Constitution
[snip]

My search leads me to this as the likely origin of the story, dated yesterday:
[Link: jumpinginpools.blogspot.com...]

As someone pointed out here,
[Link: www.abovetopsecret.com...]
the satire is mentioned at the bottom of the jumpinginpools story:

Posted by Matthew Avitabile at 7:02 PM
Labels: Barack Obama, Constitution, Defense Department, Defense Secretary, military, oath, politics, President Obama, Robert Gates, satire

So, is there any reference with an earlier date & time?

367 Tupac23X  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:28:56pm

How long before some unsavory personal information about this Judge is discovered, completely discrediting him, having him removed from the bench while an investigation is commenced and forcing a more reasonable Judge who's willing to "work together" be assigned in his place?

/

368 Charles Johnson  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:32:35pm

re: #345 UberInfidel67

That story is 100% unvarnished crap. If you read Pamela Geller's site, this is the kind of deranged garbage you're going to get.

369 abolitionist  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:37:16pm

re: #366 abolitionist

To clarify,
SATIRE: Military to Pledge Oath To Obama, Not Constitution

Link to Blog

(mod edit: changed the title to reflect the information that the blog is a satire)

[edit on 29-1-2009 by Byrd]

"Link to blog" points here (with satire label at bottom):
Wednesday, January 28, 2009
Military to Pledge Oath To Obama, Not Constitution

370 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 1:52:27pm
CAIR spokesman Ibrahim Hooper declined to comment Wednesday when the IPT called for comment. Before hanging up, Hooper said “We’re more than happy to cooperate with legitimate media. But we don’t cooperate with those who promote anti-Muslim bigotry.”

Eat a bag of d**ks and choke, Dougie...the FBI giving y'all the boot is way overdue.

371 TS  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 2:26:38pm

Haha, CAIR!

372 Throbert McGee  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 3:03:09pm

re: #345 UberInfidel67

Found this crazy shit too: Military to Pledge Oath To Obama, Not Constitution

Unalloyed jive -- but good for you that you were skeptical and asked for feedback before email-forwarding it hither and yon.

Incidentally, this story reminded me of that tale about Bush supposedly having a temper tantrum and screaming that "the Constitution is just a piece of paper" -- a BS claim invented by lefties about a right-wing President whom they hated. Let all of us who lean starboard be on guard for such foolishness coming from conservative sources -- obviously, we've got loose-screws and dumb-asses on the right, too.

373 Mashiki  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 3:11:29pm

Wonder if we need another tag: Sudden out break of common sense. Then again I'm not sure if that would apply, it sure took them long enough.

374 mattm  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 3:17:17pm

It's about freaking time.

375 quickjustice  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 4:00:20pm

re: #372 Throbert McGee

Demonizing Bush was a classic Alinsky-style tactic. Check out [Link: www.discoverthenetworks.org...]

376 AMER1CAN  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:17:49pm

Well howdy fuckin doody!

/finally


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