Video: Turkish PM Lashes Out at Israeli President Shimon Peres, Walks Off Stage

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At about 39:20 into this video from the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, Shimon Peres launches into an impassioned defense of Israel’s actions against Hamas—provoking an angry outburst from Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan, who then stalks off stage as Washington Post moderator David Ignatius sputters and the audience sits stunned.

As Peres speaks, you can almost feel the hatred radiating from Erdogan.

Youtube Video

(Hat tip: Israellycool.)

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488 comments
1 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:13:27pm

Typical, and dammit! Turkey was just about the only majority-muslim nation whose leadership hadn't succumbed to the anti-semitic infection. Dammit!

2 CyanSnowHawk  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:13:39pm

Too bad so sad. Bye Bye Turkey.

3 HelloDare  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:14:51pm

Turkey Trot.

4 realwest  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:15:05pm

Gee, it's awfully bad that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan is upset with Israel trying to defend itself.
Methinks if he wants to push it too far, it'll be Turkey trying to defend itself and finding out that they are under-equipped and ill-manned for a fight with Israel.

5 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:15:24pm

How hypocritical. I'm waiting for the video to load, but without seeing it, I can't imagine the case against hamas being much different than how the Turkish government feels about the PKK.

6 Soona'  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:15:42pm

I had actually been thinking of traveling to Turkey before the insanity completely took over. It looks like I'm too late.

7 realwest  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:17:05pm

re: #1 Guanxi88 What?!? The Islamic majority in Turkey has always been anti-semitic - don't you remember that the number 1 bestseller in Turkey two years ago (and maybe still today) was Hitler's "Mien Kampf" ?

8 MJ  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:18:02pm

What should the Congress should do about Turkish Antisemitism?

....Given the steep rise in Nazi-like antisemitism and statements by Turkish PM Erdogan demonizing Israel for Operation Cast Lead in Gaza that imperil Turkey’s Jewish community, what is it that the Congress could do? One knowledgeable observer of the terrible turn of events in Turkey for its Jewish community said that the Congress might resurrect the Armenian Genocide Resolutions that the Clinton White House and several lobby groups forced withdrawal in 2000.

President Clinton had raised “grave national security concerns” over the resolution, stressing that even the measure’s consideration would pose a threat to American lives. The President, in a letter to then Speaker Hestert noted that bringing the resolution to the House floor “could have far-reaching negative consequences for the United States
Now, in 2009, perhaps Madame Secretary of State Clinton in President Obama's Administration could rectify her husband’s mistake and strike a blow against Turkish antisemitism by both criticizing PM Erdogan’s demonizing campaign of Israel and Jews and support Congressional resolutions on the Armenian Genocide cited by Hitler as partial justification for his destruction of European Jews during the Shoah. ("Who, after all, speaks today of the annihilation of the Armenians?") She could start by stating that the U.S. will not attend the Durban II conference of the UN Human Rights Commission scheduled for April in Geneva..”


[Link: www.newenglishreview.org...]

9 GFinOaktown  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:19:13pm

Remember all, Islam means peace.

10 Killgore Trout  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:19:13pm

From the liveleak version.....
Turkish PM Lashes Out At Israeli President During Gaza Debate,Walks Off Stage.



"I do not think I will be coming back to Davos after this because you do not let me speak," the Islamist-rooted prime minister shouted before marching off the stage in front of Peres, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon and an elite audience of ministers and international officials at the World Economic Forum.

Erdogan criticised the audience for applauding Peres's emotional defence of Israel's war in Gaza, before the moderator, Washington Post journalist David Ignatius, insisted that the debate had gone overtime.

He demanded more than his allotted speaking time, they even extended the debate but it still wasn't enough. He was just pissed because the Israelis got some applause.

11 maddogg  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:19:56pm

"The fragility of the peace process"? What are you talking about David? There ain't no peace process. Just stalling on the part of the Palis until they can finally get the upper hand.

12 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:20:23pm

re: #7 realwest

What?!? The Islamic majority in Turkey has always been anti-semitic - don't you remember that the number 1 bestseller in Turkey two years ago (and maybe still today) was Hitler's "Mien Kampf" ?

This is why I distinguished the leadership from the people. For Pete's sake, what the hell is the army for, anyway? Hassling Kurds just ain't gonna cut it if you don't break Islamist heads, too.

13 GFinOaktown  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:20:32pm

...at least they don't kill any Kurds!

14 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:20:50pm

hamas and the PKK are both considered terrorist organizations. Is Erdogan really sure he wants to get upset about another sovereign nation defending itself from such a group?

15 MJ  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:20:55pm

Posted on earlier thread:

Leaders of Turkey and Israel Clash at Davos PanelBy KATRIN BENNHOLD
Published: January 29, 2009
DAVOS, Switzerland — Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan of Turkey walked off the stage after an angry exchange with the Israeli president, Shimon Peres, during a panel discussion on Gaza at the World Economic Forum on Thursday, vowing never to return to the annual gathering...

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

16 anotherindyfilmguy  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:21:03pm

it is not just elections it is a civilization...

17 Soona'  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:21:09pm

A question about that region that has remained unanswered for me is this: If Iran were to ram Iraq up Turkey's ass, would Greece help?

18 Ojoe  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:21:17pm

Hatred from many, for Israel's legitimate self defense against attacks.

This is winding up not down.

19 opinionated  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:21:18pm

I would have stormed out initially because the supposed neutral moderator writes anti Israel columns for the Washington Post.

20 tokyobk  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:22:07pm

The whole world hates Jews who defend themselves.

21 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:22:24pm

re: #17 Soona'

A question about that region that has remained unanswered for me is this: If Iran were to ram Iraq up Turkey's ass, would Greece help?

It's an interesting question. Do you suppose the Hellenes would defend the Turks, or do you think they'd grab the Greek equivalent of popcorn and watch the fun? Or, alternately, would they take advantage of the situation and settle some old scores?

22 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:23:10pm

I'm curious as to what the notes were that Erdogan and Ban Ki Moonbat were writing down. Points against Israel that they are gonna bring up at the next UN get together?

23 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:23:23pm

re: #20 tokyobk

The whole world hates Jews who defend themselves.

Yes, someone else here noted not long ago that the world just loves dead Jews; simply adores the concept of the Jew as the eternal victim, and shed politically correct tears at the Shoah, but scream in righteous indignation whenever a living Jew dares raise a hand to defend himself.

24 looking closely  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:23:44pm

And Turkey was supposed to be Israel's only Middle Eastern ally.

Too bad. . .

25 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:23:53pm

re: #23 Guanxi88
I for one do NOT hate dead Jews.

26 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:23:56pm

The head of the UN is excited about our President. I think that pretty much sums up how much this sucks.

27 opinionated  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:24:04pm

Appeaser Peres is shocked that all the pain his appeasement has caused Israel has not resulted in reciprocated love.

Dumbass.

28 acwgusa  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:24:10pm

re: #17 Soona'

A question about that region that has remained unanswered for me is this: If Iran were to ram Iraq up Turkey's ass, would Greece help?

No, but Vaseline might.

29 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:24:43pm

re: #25 UberInfidel67
In fact, I prefer the Jews who get some righteous asskicking in on those who seek to kill them.

30 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:25:07pm

re: #25 UberInfidel67

I for one do NOT hate dead Jews.

Not sure what that means. And "the world" referred not to the Lizards here gathered, but to the opinion leaders, jerks in the streets of Eurabia, and the general mish-mash of madness that has become the transnational Left.

31 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:25:51pm

re: #29 UberInfidel67

In fact, I prefer the Jews who get some righteous asskicking in on those who seek to kill them.

Okay, meaning is clear now.

Well, of course. A zionist is a Jew with a gun and the will to save innocent life, including his own. No argument from me on that.

32 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:25:51pm

Ban makes me mad.

33 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:26:00pm

re: #30 Guanxi88
I just wanted to make that clear...that's all. I would never want to be lumped in with those "others". It's cool : )

34 Soona'  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:26:14pm

re: #21 Guanxi88

It's an interesting question. Do you suppose the Hellenes would defend the Turks, or do you think they'd grab the Greek equivalent of popcorn and watch the fun? Or, alternately, would they take advantage of the situation and settle some old scores?

Please. (chuckle) Read the question again. (I hate having to repeat a joke)

35 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:26:44pm

It's very sad that hatred can so override intellectual honesty. If Erdogan were to be honest or consistent, then Israel has the right to defend itself from hamas as the Turks do against the PKK. The next time Erdogan gives any sort of speech about Turkey's right to go after the PKK, he should be treated to the same behavior he himself engaged in.

What's sad is that no one will- he won't suffer for his blatant hypocrisy. Sad.

36 MJ  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:27:55pm

"I have known Shimon Peres for many years and I also know Erdogan. I have never seen Shimon Peres so passionate as he was today. I think he felt Israel was being attacked by so many in the international community. He felt isolated," said former Norwegian prime minister Kjell Magne Bondevik....


"Erdogan's actions in Davos show that he doesn't want to miss an opportunity to further harm Turkish-Israeli relations," sources in Jerusalem said in response to the incident. The sources said that Erdogan's behavior on the Davos stage obviously would not help Turkey's attempts to be seen in Europe as a rational and constructive actor on the international stage.
"Israel's strategic relationship with Turkey is important to us, but it is no less important to Turkey," the official said. "Erdogan is harming his own interests."

The official said that Israel was growing increasingly "tired" of Erdogan's tirades, and was unlikely to make any more efforts to "chase after the Turks."The official dismissed as no longer valid the argument that Erdogan's diatribes - he has called for Israel to be barred from the UN and said its actions were inhuman and would bring it to self-destruction - were the result of domestic considerations, and that he was playing to his strong Islamic base before the Turkish municipal elections in March.


[Link: www.jpost.com...]


Let's hope Israel doesn't chase after the Turks.
This isn't a one-way street. Turkey has been using Israel for years in order to lobby the US Congress for weapons and other aid since Turkey is not well-liked in this country.

TO AIPAC:
Stop helping Turkey till Erdogan is gone.

37 acwgusa  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:28:39pm

re: #17 Soona'

A question about that region that has remained unanswered for me is this: If Iran were to ram Iraq up Turkey's ass, would Greece help?

Hey, at least it wasn't a joke about Djibouti.

38 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:28:49pm

re: #34 Soona'

Please. (chuckle) Read the question again. (I hate having to repeat a joke)

I preferred to leave the dark vice of the ancient greeks where it lay (so to speak) and instead use it to riff on global strategery.

Both work though, and, for the record, that joke went right over my head the first time through.

39 Ojoe  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:28:59pm
40 lobo91  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:29:11pm

re: #9 GFinOaktown

Remember all, Islam means peace.

No, it doesn't. It means submission.

41 ClosetConservative  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:29:12pm

Sod him. The Middle East is cancerous.

42 MARedneck  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:29:33pm

OT, sorry, but Congratulations!

43 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:29:46pm

re: #35 Sharmuta
No no no. Only the muslims are oppressed and under the heel of infidels and/or zionists. They are freedom fighters...liberating their lands! Jew? Eh, not so much. At least that is what Allah told them.

**spit**

I want to revist the term "Armenian Genocide". I would like to see that pop up EVERYWHERE.

44 Ojoe  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:29:56pm

re: #40 lobo91

submission is the polar opposite of freedom

45 Soona'  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:30:04pm

I'm out of here, lizards. It's been good talking to all of you.

46 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:30:27pm

re: #33 UberInfidel67

I just wanted to make that clear...that's all. I would never want to be lumped in with those "others". It's cool : )

That's the thing about these postings; we all go telegraphic when we write.

47 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:31:33pm

re: #43 UberInfidel67

I'll be saying the same about the Kurds then.

48 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:31:40pm

re: #46 Guanxi88
Maybe I should have went or telepathicinstead?

49 tokyobk  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:32:00pm

re: #23 Guanxi88

Yes. I have just been so cynical. I don't even want to argue with liberals any more who cannot understand that Israel is on the good side of history, whatever their flaws. And, I would like to ask Anne Frank about the goodness of humanity when it comes to the Jews, if only I could.

50 astronmr20  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:32:04pm

Keep walkin,' boots.

51 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:32:21pm

re: #48 UberInfidel67

Maybe I should have went or telepathicinstead?

It's a thought, but could you imagine the advertising? It'd be like schizophrenia, with commercial sponsors.

52 darkster2400  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:32:37pm

i do not know enough about Turkish politics - does this goof speak for the nation?

53 Bobblehead  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:33:12pm

re: #39 Ojoe

The San Gabriel Mountains go purple.

Back later.

The beauty of our world vs the ugliness witnessed in the above video. Thanks for the reminder.

54 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:33:26pm

re: #52 darkster2400

i do not know enough about Turkish politics - does this goof speak for the nation?

Ah, he's the president of Turkey?

55 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:33:59pm

re: #47 Sharmuta

I'll be saying the same about the Kurds then.

Yeah, I never had too awful much sympathy for the PKK, but the Kurds in general are definitely on the wrong end of the stick in the region. Scary to think, that but for our intervention in the First Gulf War and our actions since, they'd almost certainly have been destroyed by their "neighbors."

56 Syrah  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:33:59pm

The Turkish political class must think that they no longer have to fear a military coup.

Way to go EU. Here is another fine mess that you have gotten us into.

57 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:34:02pm

I can just picture Erdogan (and others) being in the same situation as Israel and crying "BUT IT'S DIFFERENT FOR US!" I know people like that and I just want to choke them.

58 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:34:08pm

Was the applause for Erdogan's diatribe?

59 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:34:43pm

re: #1 Guanxi88

Typical, and dammit! Turkey was just about the only majority-muslim nation whose leadership hadn't succumbed to the anti-semitic infection. Dammit!

You mean the country that wouldn't allow troops through for Operation Iraqi Freedom?

60 darkster2400  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:34:54pm

re: #54 Walter L. Newton

I know that - but that does not necessarily mean that he truly reflects the thoughts of the citizens of the nation...

61 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:34:56pm

re: #51 Guanxi88
Then we invent a medication for it. We'll be rich!

BIG PHARM IS RIPPING US OFF!

62 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:35:25pm

re: #56 Syrah

The Turkish political class must think that they no longer have to fear a military coup.

Way to go EU. Here is another fine mess that you have gotten us into.

Yes, there was always that fail-safe in Turkey. Kemalism is officially dead now; perhaps it has been for some time and I only recently heard about it. A real shame.

63 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:36:38pm

re: #59 jwb7605

You mean the country that wouldn't allow troops through for Operation Iraqi Freedom?

Yeah, that's the one. They've been pretty crappy and unreliable for some time now. That should have been a big tip-off right there, but I'd always sort of held onto the hope that the generals would step in and keep the government secular and Western-oriented.

64 stevieray  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:38:00pm

Erdogan best be cool, or he'll get a reaction from Europe he can't handle.

He was already on thin ice with his "our minarets are our missiles..." speech; if it appears that Turkey's most secular days are behind her, public opinion in Europe will swing further in an anti Islam direction.

The argument that Islam can peaceably exist in a secular state is largely based on the Turkish experience... if that goes down the tubes, all hell could break loose, especially in Germany, with its large Turkish population.

65 MJ  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:38:01pm

Turkey: some 700 Kurdish rebels militants killed in 2008

ANKARA, Turkey: Turkey's military says its troops killed 696 Kurdish rebels freedom fighters in clashes in 2008.

Military spokesman Brig. Gen. Metin Gurak says another 237 rebels fighters were captured and 177 surrendered.

Gurak said Friday that 171 security personnel including soldiers, police and government-paid village guards, were killed fighting the rebels militants.

There was no immediate comment from the rebel opposition group, the Kurdistan Workers' Party, which has been fighting for autonomy in southeast Turkey since 1984. The group has denied the military's death toll in the past.

Turkey last year launched several air force attacks and one major ground operation against rebel bases in northern Iraq.

[Link: www.iht.com...]

How the media would report it if it applied the same rules it apllies to Israel.

66 Opinionated  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:38:09pm

Israel has shown Turkey nothing but support and aid and friendship for decades.

I wonder if Obama would consider that Turkey responded with a Fist Thoroughly Clenched?

67 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:38:27pm

re: #62 Guanxi88
You haven't heard about it mostly because, until they were sure of the UN being on their side, they weren't as blatant about it. Now with the UN kissing their ass, they can be free to shout it from the rooftops.

68 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:38:28pm

re: #61 UberInfidel67

Then we invent a medication for it. We'll be rich!

BIG PHARM IS RIPPING US OFF!

Ahhh, but how to promote it? All your best potential customers are too crazy from the ads to know they need it. It's like selling hearing aids door-to-door; your best customers never know you're there.

69 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:38:38pm

two words...Turkish Kurds

70 MJ  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:40:02pm

re: #66 Opinionated

Israel has shown Turkey nothing but support and aid and friendship for decades.

I wonder if Obama would consider that Turkey responded with a Fist Thoroughly Clenched?

So has AIPAC which is responsible for getting Turkey aid in Congress. It's time for that to end as long as this is the way Turkey repays the favor.

71 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:40:23pm

Oh my. Do you think this will put the kibosh on Israeli arms sales to Turkey?

72 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:40:35pm

re: #67 UberInfidel67

You haven't heard about it mostly because, until they were sure of the UN being on their side, they weren't as blatant about it. Now with the UN kissing their ass, they can be free to shout it from the rooftops.

Great, so we've got a shaky NATO ally, wedged smack in the middle of one of the most volatile regions on the planet, and along strategically significant logistics routes. Whose population are moving to Europe in numbers significant enough to influence German politics for the worse.

Great. Anybody gotta drink?

73 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:40:56pm

re: #68 Guanxi88
We market it exclusively to Obama voters! Their minds are pliable....obviously. And they tell two moonbats, and they tell two moonbats..... See where I am going with this?! Perfect!

74 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:41:02pm

re: #71 Cato the Elder

Oh my. Do you think this will put the kibosh kebab on Israeli arms sales to Turkey?

75 quickjustice  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:41:27pm

Tough Turkey!

76 saberry0530  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:41:35pm

re: #68 Guanxi88

Ahhh, but how to promote it? All your best potential customers are too crazy from the ads to know they need it. It's like selling hearing aids door-to-door; your best customers never know you're there.

Just combine it with the Viagra, Cialis and Levitra commercials.

77 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:41:43pm

re: #73 UberInfidel67

We market it exclusively to Obama voters! Their minds are pliable....obviously. And they tell two moonbats, and they tell two moonbats..... See where I am going with this?! Perfect!

Sweet! Okay, you get the capital, the business plan, the product, and the distribution worked out; I'll design the letterhead.

78 least  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:42:09pm

re: #14 Sharmuta

hamas and the PKK are both considered terrorist organizations. Is Erdogan really sure he wants to get upset about another sovereign nation defending itself from such a group?

Logic and anti-semitism are mutually exclusive terms.

Sovereign nations, yes. Juice -- never.

feh

79 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:42:25pm

Does anyone still not understand why the EU is leery of admitting Turkey? Of course they are not allowed to say why.

80 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:43:01pm

replacing history with selfish emotion is the new chic...not surprising since it's a worldwide phenomenon...Israel must act on it's own to survive...

81 quickjustice  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:43:07pm

Ataturk would be weeping.

82 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:43:10pm

re: #76 saberry0530

Just combine it with the Viagra, Cialis and Levitra commercials.

Well, there's the marketing plan side of it. Give me some time to steal design a letterhead.

83 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:43:11pm

There's no f*cking way I'm watching over an hour of Davos Dimwits bloviating about the "fragile peace process". Will wait for video to load, then zero in on the part Charles mentions.

Did anyone have the stomach to sit through the whole thing?

84 MJ  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:43:13pm

President Bush and Sec. Rice tried very hard to get Turkey into the EU.

They were wrong to do so.

85 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:43:37pm
86 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:43:41pm

re: #72 Guanxi88
Erdogan cannot control his mouth. He sits in a very precarious position actually. He know the islamists in his country are capable of anything. There is a HUGE group though who is trying to keep/make the country secular ala Kemal. He isn't willing to piss off the islamists though because he knows damn well they wouldn't hesistate to bump hiim off. If that happens, NO EU membership (amongst other things).

87 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:44:46pm

re: #77 Guanxi88
I have relatives in the North...there begins my customer base. Monnbats...all of 'em! lol

88 Achilles Tang  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:44:55pm

re: #81 quickjustice

Ataturk would be weeping.

along with the Shah.

89 least  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:45:22pm

re: #79 Naso Tang

Does anyone still not understand why the EU is leery of admitting Turkey? Of course they are not allowed to say why.

Actually, given recent EU attitudes, the Turks would fit right in.

90 brookly red  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:46:45pm

re: #79 Naso Tang

Does anyone still not understand why the EU is leery of admitting Turkey? Of course they are not allowed to say why.

thet don't speak french? //

91 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:47:02pm

July 14, 2008:
86 Accused of Plotting Secular Coup in Turkey

The suspects were detained after police uncovered a cache of hand grenades at the house of a retired noncommissioned officer in Istanbul last summer. The investigation intensified after Mr. Erdogan vowed to crack down on shadowy "deep state" gangs-- a network of renegade agents within the state who may be taking the law into their own hands.

Forty-eight of the suspects have been jailed. They include an ultranationalist lawyer, Dogu Perincek, a small leftist and nationalist party leader, and Ergun Poyraz, who wrote a series of best-sellers critical of Mr. Erdogan.


[Link: www.nysun.com...]

92 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:47:04pm

re: #86 UberInfidel67

Erdogan cannot control his mouth. He sits in a very precarious position actually. He know the islamists in his country are capable of anything. There is a HUGE group though who is trying to keep/make the country secular ala Kemal. He isn't willing to piss off the islamists though because he knows damn well they wouldn't hesistate to bump hiim off. If that happens, NO EU membership (amongst other things).

I believe the world would be a better and safer place if free Israel acted on it's own interest regardless of international opinion...so should the free west...all this political posturing gets the wrong people killed...it's a violent world out there

93 Bobblehead  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:47:04pm

re: #79 Naso Tang

Does anyone still not understand why the EU is leery of admitting Turkey? Of course they are not allowed to say why.

Naturally, they do not want an Islamist country wielding influence in the EU. They've got enough problems controlling their own Muslims. What a mess The EU has made for itself.

94 MJ  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:47:08pm

re: #79 Naso Tang

Does anyone still not understand why the EU is leery of admitting Turkey? Of course they are not allowed to say why.

Cyprus is one issue.
Muslim majority is a major issue.
Human Rights in Turkey another issue.
The Kurdish Question yet another issue.

95 stevieray  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:47:49pm

re: #79 Naso Tang

Does anyone still not understand why the EU is leery of admitting Turkey? Of course they are not allowed to say why.

They can't say why. If Turkey goes Islamist, then the pols of Europe lose their secular Islam touchstone.

96 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:48:04pm

Which Declaration of Human Rights does Turkey proscribe too? Sepending on the answer to that, that would be enough to keep them out of the EU. It is the complete opposite of the UNDHR. That may be a sticking point?

97 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:49:05pm

re: #83 Cato the Elder

There's no f*cking way I'm watching over an hour of Davos Dimwits bloviating about the "fragile peace process". Will wait for video to load, then zero in on the part Charles mentions.

Did anyone have the stomach to sit through the whole thing?

I have accidentally caught the beginning of Peres' talk.

Israelis are fortunate to have a man so impassioned, eloquent, and honest in his speech. I am impressed, incredibly impressed.

I know he has done a lot of unpopular things.

Would that GW Bush could have had the capability to speak like this ... maybe we wouldn't need/have a President that starts his term by grovelling to our enemies.

98 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:49:18pm

re: #92 albusteve
And I would agree with you wholeheartedly : ) It's almost like the "walk a mile in my shoes" mentality.

99 Syrah  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:50:33pm

re: #83 Cato the Elder

There's no f*cking way I'm watching over an hour of Davos Dimwits bloviating about the "fragile peace process". Will wait for video to load, then zero in on the part Charles mentions.

Did anyone have the stomach to sit through the whole thing?

Downloadhelper is a nice Firefox add-on. You down load the video and then fast forward it to the relevant bits.

100 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:50:40pm

Peres on the election of Gaza to power:
"Democracy is not a matter of elections; it is a civilization."

101 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:50:50pm

re: #95 stevieray

They can't say why. If Turkey goes Islamist, then the pols of Europe lose their secular Islam touchstone.

Turkey was once known as the "Sick Man of Europe". Perhaps the EU is (wisely) leery of what appears to be their latest disease ...

102 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:51:18pm

It's loading...loading...incredibly slowly. There must be a lot of jihadis watching this thing to get their Jew-hate on.

103 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:51:25pm

re: #100 jaunte

Peres on the election of Gaza to power:
"Democracy is not a matter of elections; it is a civilization."

His talk is inspirational, IMO, at least as far as I have gotten.

104 Bobblehead  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:51:27pm

re: #101 OldLineTexan

Turkey was once known as the "Sick Man of Europe". Perhaps the EU is (wisely) leery of what appears to be their latest disease ...

How right you are!

105 Spiny Norman  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:51:34pm

re: #5 Sharmuta

How hypocritical. I'm waiting for the video to load, but without seeing it, I can't imagine the case against hamas being much different than how the Turkish government feels about the PKK.

My first thoughts as well.

106 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:51:48pm

kick ass, take names and sort out the political mumbo jumbo later when your people are safe...Turkey is a time bomb just like Pakistan...Israel has the right...Gaza is just a little irritation...the Mullahs must go down and who will do it?...talk talk talk...

107 pat  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:52:07pm

Erdogan is an Islamic nutcase. He always was.

108 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:52:15pm

re: #103 OldLineTexan

That should have been "Election of Hamas to power in Gaza..."

109 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:52:17pm
110 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:52:23pm

re: #100 jaunte
Makes sense. I would like to hear this more often :Elections do not a democracy make.

(Was that sentence even correct?)

111 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:52:37pm

OT

Fox News Headline:

Wyoming Man Cited for Riding Horse Drunk in Snowstorm

All I have to say is that it sure wasn't going to happen in LA.

112 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:52:37pm

Peres read some of the Hamas charter.

113 reine.de.tout  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:52:52pm

re: #102 Cato the Elder

It's loading...loading...incredibly slowly. There must be a lot of jihadis watching this thing to get their Jew-hate on.

You must listen to Peres' entire speech - about 25 minutes. I couldn't stop listening. I thought it was wonderful and he was very passionate.

I forwarded to 35 minute point and began listening there.

114 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:53:14pm

re: #108 jaunte

That should have been "Election of Hamas to power in Gaza..."

I understood you, somehow. Sorry!

/

115 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:53:48pm

Isn't it Turkey where the number one cause of women's death is ''kitchen fire?"
(honor killing)
He had a lot of nerve talking about ''human rights.''

116 Opinionated  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:54:01pm

re: #107 pat

Erdogan is an Islamic nutcase. He always was.

That's enough.

117 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:54:11pm

Turkish President lashes out at Israeli Pres Shimon Peres, walks off stage, throws shoes, gets a monument.

118 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:54:33pm

Peres points out that Israel chose to remove its settlers from Gaza.
Then, "Why did they fire rockets at us?"
the destroyed the greenhouses..."Why?"
"There was never a day of starvation in Gaza."

119 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:55:11pm

re: #115 mean Gene
Helloooo? Human rights don't apply to pigs and apes. Geesh! : )

120 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:55:19pm
121 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:55:48pm

re: #107 pat

Erdogan is an Islamic nutcase. He always was.

Really? I didn't know that.

Is he behind all the "Islamic revival" stuff that's been going on in "secular Turkey"?

[If "secular Turkey" falls to the Islamists, that's the end of secular democracy in the Islamic world. And, I would hope, the end of all the endless back-and-forth, yes-or-no debates about whether to admit a state in Asia Minor into "Europe".]

122 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:55:53pm

Amr Moussa turning his body away.

123 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:55:59pm

re: #120 Iron Fist
Now THAT was funny...Citing him for valor. ROFLMAO

124 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:56:22pm

re: #119 UberInfidel67

Helloooo? Human rights don't apply to pigs and apes. Geesh! : )

And apparently not to Muslim females either!

125 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:56:31pm

re: #113 reine.de.tout

You must listen to Peres' entire speech - about 25 minutes. I couldn't stop listening. I thought it was wonderful and he was very passionate.

I forwarded to 35 minute point and began listening there.

That's exactly what I'm planning to do.

126 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:56:53pm

re: #124 mean Gene
Good! You're catching on! lol

127 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:56:59pm

re: #125 Cato the Elder

That's exactly what I'm planning to do.

Good plan.

128 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:57:28pm

I'm at Erdogan quoting (incorrectly) the Sixth Commandment.

129 JacksonTn  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:58:15pm

re: #122 jaunte

Amr Moussa turning his body away.

OT ...

Jaunte ...your artwork on the cookbook is fantastic - excellent!

130 pat  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:58:16pm

re: #121 Cato the Elder

He is the point to the Islamic knife in Turkey. He was recently implicated in the horrendous castration, torture, and murder of the Christian missionaries.

131 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:58:29pm

Peres: "The problem is not the Arab world, the problem is the Iranian ambition to govern the Middle East."

132 MJ  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:58:44pm

re: #79 Naso Tang

Does anyone still not understand why the EU is leery of admitting Turkey? Of course they are not allowed to say why.

Valery Giscard d'Estaing summed up the reasons nicely though undiplomatically several years ago:

Valery Giscard d'Estaing: Turkey Not Part Of Europe

Mr Giscard d'Estaing told Le Monde that Turkey's capital was not in Europe, 95% of its population lived outside Europe, and it was "not a European country".

Asked what the effect of including Turkey in a future wave of European enlargement would be, he said: "In my opinion, it would be the end of Europe."...

and

Underlining his opposition to Turkish membership of the EU, Giscard d'Estaing said that letting non-European countries join the 15-member club would be "the end of the European Union."

"The day after you open negotiations with Turkey, you would have a Moroccan demand (for membership of the union,)" said the 76-year-old politician.


See:
[Link: www.parapundit.com...]

133 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:58:45pm

re: #128 OldLineTexan
Why would he be quoting a Commandment? Is he not a good Muslim, thereby knowing that these Commandment were "corrupted" by the idolators? Methink he is confused.

134 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:58:47pm

re: #120 Iron Fist

Damn, what did they cite him for, valor? I can't imagine trying to get on a horse while drunk. The snowstorm just makes it funnier :-)

Getting on a horse while drunk is easy.
Steering it and controlling the gait is another matter.
/don't ask ...

135 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:59:05pm
136 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:59:25pm

re: #129 JacksonTn

Thanks, I didn't know it was out yet.

137 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:59:32pm

re: #128 OldLineTexan

I'm at Erdogan quoting (incorrectly) the Sixth Commandment.

Some translators still say kill instead of murder.

138 itellu3times  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:59:37pm

OK, Erdogan asks to respond at 1:01:30, and walks off about 1:04:28.

I skipped Erdogan's apparent speech before Peres, to which Peres responds, apparently Erdogan said how lovely and put-upon poor Hamas is.

Davos - puke.

139 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 5:59:49pm

re: #131 jaunte

OT -

Artwork - glass lizard on table - books on shelf - wonderful - you got a sale - may have to rob a 7-11.
/

140 akak  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:00:05pm

Listen to Peres for 25 minutes, did he offer Israeli surrender at or before the 1 minute mark?

141 JacksonTn  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:00:14pm

re: #136 jaunte

Thanks, I didn't know it was out yet.

Jaunte ...it is not ...Reine showed us the front and back covers ...great!

142 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:00:20pm

"The day after you open negotiations with Turkey, you would have a Moroccan demand and so on and so forth.....(for membership of the union,)" said the 76-year-old politician.

Then they can all partake of the Union largesse.

143 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:00:27pm

re: #139 Walter L. Newton

I stole your hat, too.

144 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:00:47pm

re: #111 EmmmieG

OT

Fox News Headline:

Wyoming Man Cited for Riding Horse Drunk in Snowstorm

All I have to say is that it sure wasn't going to happen in LA.

When you're drunk, is a horse the preferred method of getting home?

Unless the horse is drunk.

145 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:01:16pm

re: #137 mean Gene

Some translators still say kill instead of murder.

As I understand it, "kill" is incorrect. I am no translator.

146 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:02:10pm

re: #135 Iron Fist

There should have been. The IDF is great and all that, but they need to look up what has historically led to a successful siege. Hint: letting "humatarian" supplies through the siege lines. Especially when the "humanitarian" supplies are guns and ammunition.

human nature does not change...the only difference between the present and the middle ages is technology...rightousness requires force...use it

147 MJ  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:02:18pm

Anyone else having trouble with the site?

148 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:02:59pm

re: #143 jaunte

I stole your hat, too.

Your Cover rocks.. I admire your talent..great job

149 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:03:03pm

re: #145 OldLineTexan
From what I was taught, being a Catholic...it is "kill". That is why suicide is a grave sin....when God tells you not to kill, he means yourself too. JMO

150 mean Gene  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:03:06pm

re: #145 OldLineTexan

As I understand it, "kill" is incorrect. I am no translator.

Go to a multi Bible translation page like this one and plug in each English Bible in turn.
There are still a few using the term kill.
[Link: www.biblegateway.com...]

151 hazzyday  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:03:12pm

re: #147 MJ

Anyone else having trouble with the site?

AOK here.

152 LGoPs  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:03:26pm

All right. If this guy wants to be a jerk, let's throw it back in his face......''What about the Armenian genocide, dipstick?'' Your government needs to answer for that....
Pissed off and unreasonable works for both sides.........

153 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:04:08pm

re: #148 HoosierHoops

Thanks, it was a lot of fun to do.

154 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:04:37pm
155 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:04:59pm

re: #153 jaunte

Thanks, it was a lot of fun to do.

it shows...kudos...very cool

156 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:05:08pm

re: #149 UberInfidel67

From what I was taught, being a Catholic...it is "kill". That is why suicide is a grave sin....when God tells you not to kill, he means yourself too. JMO

All sin is forgivable at the foot of the Cross

157 hazzyday  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:05:56pm

re: #132 MJ

Turkey has a European province called Gerkey.

158 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:06:04pm

re: #143 jaunte

I stole your hat, too.

Excellent - Lizards at this point probably realize I'll take PR any way I can get it.

Can I do the book tour?

159 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:06:19pm

Very, very well said Mr. Peres. You deserved more than applause. I would have given you a standing ovation.

160 lifeofthemind  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:06:56pm

America has exactly the wrong President to deal with this problem at this time.

161 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:06:56pm

re: #157 hazzyday
What they really need is one called TurDucken. Or Tofurkey. lol

162 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:07:38pm

A transcript of Mr. Peres' words would be wonderful. Everyone should read it or see this video.

163 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:08:00pm

re: #154 Iron Fist

Anybody got a link for the cookbook cover? I can't see anything on blogspot from work. I could try and find it, but I'm lazy.

cookbook cover

164 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:08:14pm

re: #154 Iron Fist

Anybody got a link for the cookbook cover? I can't see anything on blogspot from work. I could try and find it, but I'm lazy.

i went back and copied this..hope it works
Nana, you still here:
Check out the titles on the bookshelves on the left in the pic here (click on it to make it larger)

165 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:08:40pm

re: #144 Silhouette

When you're drunk, is a horse the preferred method of getting home?

Unless the horse is drunk.

A non-drunk horse will usually find its way to the stall for you. All you have to do is hang on.

Getting from the stall to the bedroom is up to you.

166 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:08:49pm
167 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:08:50pm

re: #162 Sharmuta

A transcript of Mr. Peres' words would be wonderful. Everyone should read it or see this video.

I take your word for it...I have no flash player at present...what a bitch that is

168 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:08:58pm

re: #160 lifeofthemind

America has exactly the wrong President to deal with this problem at this time.

I think that depends on which side of the table you're sitting at. I dare say folks, with names remarkably similar to that of the current POTUS and his relatives in Kenya and Indonesia, would say we have just the right guy.

169 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:09:48pm

re: #83 Cato the Elder

There's no f*cking way I'm watching over an hour of Davos Dimwits bloviating about the "fragile peace process". Will wait for video to load, then zero in on the part Charles mentions.

Did anyone have the stomach to sit through the whole thing?

Just skip to Mr. Peres' speech. It's quite moving.

170 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:10:19pm

re: #156 A Kiwi Infidel
Not wanting at ALL to get into a religious discussion here. lol All I know, from what I was taught and what I believe, you have until your last breath to ask for forgiveness of your sins. If you die without having the time to do so, you condemn your soul to hell. I did have one friend who commited suicide and got a Mass performed. My only hope is that maybe he had a few seconds before expiring and asked for forgiveness of his sins. This is just my opinion. And yes, it HAS kept me from offing myself at times.

171 Racer X  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:10:44pm

He forgot to say "Death to America" before walking off stage.

172 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:11:14pm

re: #163 jwb7605

OT - for you. Do you listen to Bob Newman on KOA at night (like right now).

173 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:11:20pm

re: #166 Iron Fist
Good point. I will have to analyze my position on that. Thank y ou for making me think. Really.

174 Steffan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:11:26pm

OT: What color is the sky on Planet Kos?

Once again, it's Dennis Kucinich to the rescue.

The guy who put Impeachment on the table, when no one else would, and the guy who advocates correctly for: single-payer guaranteed Health Care (Medicare For All), an end to NAFTA/FTAA/WTO, an end to the unconstitutional U.S. Patriot Acts, large cuts in Military "Defense" (Offense) spending, and an end to both Wars that are depleting our own Nation, has now come out against the auto-Debt generating Federal Reserve Monopoly .. which is the root cause behind the corrupt greed/Wall-St/War-making/fake News type of society that we are enslaved by.

And on the main site, Kos bloviates about the "Republican Media."

Gotta love it. I'm glad I invested in popcorn.

175 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:11:33pm

re: #171 Racer X

He forgot to say "Death to America" before walking off stage.

He'll do it twice next time.

176 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:11:35pm

re: #165 Cato the Elder

A non-drunk horse will usually find its way to the stall for you. All you have to do is hang on.

Getting from the stall to the bedroom is up to you.

Exactly. So why punish the drunk guy for making the best choice?

177 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:11:50pm

Can anyone identify all the speakers for me, left to right?

178 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:12:10pm

re: #170 UberInfidel67

Not wanting at ALL to get into a religious discussion here. lol All I know, from what I was taught and what I believe, you have until your last breath to ask for forgiveness of your sins. If you die without having the time to do so, you condemn your soul to hell. I did have one friend who commited suicide and got a Mass performed. My only hope is that maybe he had a few seconds before expiring and asked for forgiveness of his sins. This is just my opinion. And yes, it HAS kept me from offing myself at times.

so there is no punishment for sinning?

179 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:12:52pm

re: #135 Iron Fist

I think it goes against their nature. Israel is about life- to the point they bleed and suffer for it. It's not that Israel does this- it's that no one gives a shit that they do. They're still the bad guys.

180 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:13:00pm
181 Racer X  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:13:08pm

re: #163 jwb7605

cookbook cover

Awesome job Jaunte!

182 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:13:13pm

re: #145 OldLineTexan

As I understand it, "kill" is incorrect. I am no translator.

The 6th commandment: לא תרצח (Lo Tirzach=Do not murder)
לא להרוג = Lo Leharog (Do not kill)

183 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:13:16pm

re: #177 Cato the Elder

Can anyone identify all the speakers for me, left to right?

Yes...

anti-semite, anti-semite, Peres, anti-semite

184 Guanxi88  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:13:33pm

re: #178 albusteve

so there is no punishment for sinning?

By me, we were taught that the punishment for being a sinner was that you were a sinner, and that the reward for doing righteousness was the occasion to do righteousness.

185 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:13:46pm

re: #178 albusteve
Not if you sincerely ask for forgiveness. That doesn't mean you keep committing the same sin over and over and thinking "well, I will just ask for forgiveness". You have to mean it in your heart that you are truly sorry for whatever offense you committed. And NOT do it again.

186 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:14:13pm

re: #179 Sharmuta

I think it goes against their nature. Israel is about life- to the point they bleed and suffer for it. It's not that Israel does this- it's that no one gives a shit that they do. They're still the bad guys.

to say no one gives a shit is innacurate...
:)

187 Vicious Michigan Union Thug  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:14:15pm

re: #184 Guanxi88

By me, we were taught that the punishment for being a sinner was that you were a sinner, and that the reward for doing righteousness was the occasion to do righteousness.

What about sinners who enjoy sinning?

188 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:14:34pm

re: #181 Racer X

Thanks!

189 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:15:43pm

re: #164 HoosierHoops

i went back and copied this..hope it works
Nana, you still here:
Check out the titles on the bookshelves on the left in the pic here (click on it to make it larger)

I stuck it on my Comcast Home Page area.
I'll delete it tomorrow, unless otherwise by popular request.
File size is about 650 K.

190 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:15:44pm

re: #187 Alouette
Then they are SOL. If they ask for forgiveness, but not really mean it...then they are on their own. That's what I was trying to get at with my response to albusteve above.

191 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:15:44pm

re: #180 Iron Fist

Thanks!

re: #164 HoosierHoops

Didn't work, but thanks anyway :-)

Impressive. Very impressive. I've always wished that I had a talent for art, but I never did.

Sorry..You probably wonder how i can post over 7000 comments here and not have one link work...It's a freak of nature..

192 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:15:46pm

re: #180 Iron Fist

I've always wished that I had a talent for art, but I never did.

But you're a martial artist, Fist.

;)

193 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:15:46pm

re: #184 Guanxi88

By me, we were taught that the punishment for being a sinner was that you were a sinner, and that the reward for doing righteousness was the occasion to do righteousness.

I dont understand that at all...sorry

194 Marvo76  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:15:54pm

re: #12 Guanxi88

It is the army that keeps Turkey Secular, by design, and by history. The army has deposed more than one government that wanted to turn "fundametal" but the current state of education in Turkey has swung back to the fundy type and there are now up and coming in the military soldiers and officers who are not as "secular" as they once were. What will happen when they get to be senior officers? How soon will this shift take place? these are questions which need to be answered even here in the US due to our NATO ties and access to allies such as Georgia which is only accessable by air or thru the Dardenelles....

195 LGoPs  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:16:11pm

All right, I get it......not all Muslims are consumed with foam spitting rage.......I'm sure there are 2 or 3 hundred out there that are reasonable and calm////. But what is it about Islam that induces this - almost comical if it weren't so deadly serious - rage?
I am seriously sick and tired of it and while my equanimity is of small importance to the world, does the image of this ever present anger not ever occur to them as a sign of being seriously fucked up.
Do they have mirrors in Islam and does anybody ever look in them with any hint of reflection?
There isn't a chill pill in the world big enough to cure this........

196 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:16:20pm

Erdogan didn't make any attempt to answer any of the questions Peres asked.

197 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:16:26pm
198 Bobblehead  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:16:30pm

re: #163 jwb7605

cookbook cover

Oh my goodness jaunte! You are talented.

199 Marvo76  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:17:01pm

re: #156 A Kiwi Infidel

All sin is forgivable at the foot of the Cross

Except suicide,because once you cross the gates of death there is no Cross to appeal to...(at least that is what I have been taught)

200 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:17:14pm

Perez should have added that the "Jews hiding behind rocks and trees" bit from the Hamas charter comes from a famous hadith of Mahomet. Or would that be inflammatory?

201 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:18:03pm

So I watched the whole thing. Wow. I wish everyone would listen this video of Shimon Peres'. I wish this was shouted from the rooftops somehow, the truth of what happened and happens.

202 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:18:15pm

re: #199 Marvo76

Except suicide,because once you cross the gates of death there is no Cross to appeal to...(at least that is what I have been taught)

With God all things are possible.

203 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:18:28pm

re: #198 Bobblehead

It was a relief to get through the whole thing without a giant ink splatter.

204 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:18:54pm

re: #194 Marvo76
They are able to become less secular by seeing how to wield the power of the mentally defective islamists. They see other countries bowing down to the muslims. They figure that now is their time to jump on the bandwagon. Why not...it's working in all the other countries.

205 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:19:18pm

re: #196 jaunte

why would he? That would force him to admit that there is but one reason for the violence.

206 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:19:30pm

re: #199 Marvo76

Except suicide,because once you cross the gates of death there is no Cross to appeal to...(at least that is what I have been taught)

then what happens?

207 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:19:33pm

re: #20 tokyobk

The whole world hates Jews who defend themselves.

I am glad to say I am not one with the world.

208 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:19:47pm

re: #163 jwb7605

cookbook cover

Nice work on the cover, Jaunte. Makes me really regret I didn't contribute my grilled salmon w/ lemon-caper butter sauce recipe.

Nice work, guys.

209 Marvo76  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:19:52pm

re: #187 Alouette

What about sinners who enjoy sinning?

They haven't asked for forgiveness so they aren't forgiven. and one of the commandments of Christ was "Go forth and sin no more"

210 KitchenQueen  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:20:34pm

re: #170 UberInfidel67

Not wanting at ALL to get into a religious discussion here. lol All I know, from what I was taught and what I believe, you have until your last breath to ask for forgiveness of your sins. If you die without having the time to do so, you condemn your soul to hell. I did have one friend who commited suicide and got a Mass performed. My only hope is that maybe he had a few seconds before expiring and asked for forgiveness of his sins. This is just my opinion. And yes, it HAS kept me from offing myself at times.


I think they treat suicide a little differently than they used to. There's the issue of mental illness and full consent of the will.

211 Randall Gross  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:20:45pm

Jaunte, that's really some fine artwork.

212 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:20:56pm

re: #205 ArmyWife

I'm glad Peres read at least part of the Hamas charter. Those people in the audience have got to be aware of it, but they prefer to ignore it.

213 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:21:02pm

re: #196 jaunte

I recognize the Lizards! The one in the hat is Walter, isn't it?

214 Marvo76  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:21:16pm

re: #195 LGoPs

Nope they just show their kids how get it is to be a martyr for allah and urge them to go to their glory by taking out some poor Kafir...

215 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:21:46pm

re: #163 jwb7605

cookbook cover

I see Basil made it on the cover!

216 Racer X  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:21:50pm

I have a great idea!

America is in a dire economic crisis. I say we turn off the foreign aid spigot until things improve. Turkey, Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia: better luck next year.

How's that for "stimulus"?

217 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:21:59pm

re: #211 Thanos

Thanks, I appreciate that.

218 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:22:11pm

re: #196 jaunte

Excellent art!

219 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:22:15pm

re: #209 Marvo76

They haven't asked for forgiveness so they aren't forgiven. and one of the commandments of Christ was "Go forth and sin no more"


do people that do not recognize Jesus sin?

220 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:22:36pm

re: #213 ArmyWife

Yes, that's his hat, at least, and he seems to be spinning a tale.

221 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:22:39pm

re: #201 ArmyWife

I agree. A transcript is needed, or at least a shortened video if just Mr. Peres' words. I was quite moved by his passion. A transcript would be nice- easy to send to others to read.

222 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:22:56pm

re: #213 ArmyWife

Lesson plans by Goddessoftheclassroom! Lyrics by Buzzsaw! Clue by four!

223 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:23:11pm

re: #215 MandyManners

I see Basil made it on the cover!

Are you the lizard in pearls?

224 Marvo76  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:23:20pm

re: #206 albusteve
First the death, then Judgement, then (without the forgiveness of Christ) the final death (torment in hell) Although I have read there are three heavens and at least two hells....depending on your denomination

225 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:23:22pm

re: #215 MandyManners

The Basil's for you, of course. Cheers!

226 Syrah  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:23:55pm

re: #203 jaunte

It was a relief to get through the whole thing without a giant ink splatter.

It is very good.

227 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:23:59pm

re: #212 jaunte

I'm glad Peres read at least part of the Hamas charter. Those people in the audience have got to be aware of it, but they prefer to ignore it.

Peres doing that was totally uncalled for. The audience can't profess their ignorance of Hamas' objectives now.

/ do I really need to?

228 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:24:24pm

re: #225 jaunte

I'm humbled by your kindness, BTW.

229 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:24:33pm

Jaunte, I am in awe of your talent and effort, and humbly flattered to be included! I can't wait to order one.

230 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:24:33pm

re: #208 Noam Sayin'

Nice work on the cover, Jaunte. Makes me really regret I didn't contribute my grilled salmon w/ lemon-caper butter sauce recipe. Nice work, guys.

I submitted my "12 steps to Successful Water Boiling" but it didn't make the cut.

231 Marvo76  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:24:51pm

re: #219 albusteve

Sorry to quote the Osiah, but that is above my paygrade, and my learning, however I will ask the pastor on Sunday because that is good question.

232 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:24:52pm

re: #210 KitchenQueen
The person I was referring to shot himself in the chest. I am hoping that he maybe had a little time to ask God to forgive him. Also, I like to think God is loving and compassionate enough to realize a person's inner struggle with mental illness and instead of condemning them, maybe holding THEM even closer to himself. I was also taught in CCD that when you say your prayers at night, say an extra one for those souls who may be lingering in purgatory. When they get enough prayers, they too can go to heaven. Maybe suicides go to purgatory? IDK...I'm not dead.

233 Pvt Bin Jammin  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:24:54pm

re: #220 jaunte

Am just catching up to the thread. Wonderful artwork! I had a blast just reading the book titles.

234 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:25:24pm

re: #228 Sharmuta

Aw, shucks.

235 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:25:40pm

re: #234 jaunte

That's my line.

236 Marvo76  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:25:47pm

re: #230 Walter L. Newton


I guess you shouldn't have added the "what to do if it burns" footnote...//

237 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:25:55pm

re: #235 Sharmuta

Heh.

238 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:25:55pm

re: #220 jaunte

I'm lovin' the book titles. Did you have inspiration for the Lizards at the table? I know who I think they would be. Walter we got, but I'd like to know if the others match with what I'm thinking.

239 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:26:05pm

re: #237 jaunte

High five, yo.

240 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:26:17pm

re: #236 Marvo76

I guess you shouldn't have added the "what to do if it burns" footnote...//

LOL (of course, I'm on drugs)

241 Racer X  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:26:25pm

re: #230 Walter L. Newton

I submitted my "12 steps to Successful Water Boiling" but it didn't make the cut.

Gotta have Chili-Cheese Fritos!

242 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:26:42pm

re: #219 albusteve
Yes. There are some things that are just not acceptable. Unless you are muslim, there is no earthly or unearthly reason for you to go about slaughtering other human beings. God reads your heart and follows your actions...not which "religion" you follow.

243 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:26:56pm

re: #231 Marvo76

Sorry to quote the Osiah, but that is above my paygrade, and my learning, however I will ask the pastor on Sunday because that is good question.

dont...I just hope that in your world there is room for the Bushmen etc...it wasn't their fault they didnt know Jesus and someone should take that into account it seems

244 Syrah  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:27:06pm

re: #238 ArmyWife

I'm lovin' the book titles. Did you have inspiration for the Lizards at the table? I know who I think they would be. Walter we got, but I'd like to know if the others match with what I'm thinking.

Obi Won and Miguel even have there spots.

245 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:27:18pm

re: #238 ArmyWife

I'm lovin' the book titles. Did you have inspiration for the Lizards at the table? I know who I think they would be. Walter we got, but I'd like to know if the others match with what I'm thinking.

You can tell the hoopster..He is the handsome lizard with no tan lines...
/teasing

246 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:27:23pm

re: #241 Racer X

You mean Frito Pie?

247 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:27:23pm

re: #241 Racer X

Gotta have Chili-Cheese Fritos!

The secret ingredient is crack.

248 akak  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:27:25pm
Report: Peres apologizes to Erdogan for Davos incident

what a hero!

249 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:27:35pm

re: #149 UberInfidel67

From what I was taught, being a Catholic...it is "kill". That is why suicide is a grave sin....when God tells you not to kill, he means yourself too. JMO

So what do you do about warfare?

Hunting?

Eating meat?

250 Marvo76  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:27:49pm

Might be back in later, have some catching up to do on another thread...

251 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:27:56pm

re: #245 HoosierHoops

Maybe my thigh highs will make the next cover. (from downstairs thread).

252 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:27:59pm

re: #234 jaunte

Aw, shucks.


hey...get an agent...glossies etc!...you deserve it

253 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:28:09pm

re: #223 Noam Sayin'

Are you the lizard in pearls?

Could be. I've long lashes just like her.

BTW, how's the mouse?

254 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:28:12pm

re: #238 ArmyWife

I'm lovin' the book titles. Did you have inspiration for the Lizards at the table? I know who I think they would be. Walter we got, but I'd like to know if the others match with what I'm thinking.

I want to know who is that cute little female blue lizard sitting in my lap (well, I'd like to think it's a female and it's sitting in my lap).

255 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:28:15pm

re: #242 UberInfidel67

Yes. There are some things that are just not acceptable. Unless you are muslim, there is no earthly or unearthly reason for you to go about slaughtering other human beings. God reads your heart and follows your actions...not which "religion" you follow.


Again, I regret I am limited to only one upding.

256 Marvo76  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:28:22pm

re: #248 akak

I wonder what Eddie's reaction was?

257 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:28:23pm

re: #225 jaunte

The Basil's for you, of course. Cheers!

Thanks!

258 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:28:33pm
259 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:28:51pm

re: #238 ArmyWife

You got Walter. Most are open to claiming, but the small blue lizard is Sharmuta, and Mandy is wearing pearls and nursing a glass of Basil.

260 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:28:59pm

re: #230 Walter L. Newton

I submitted my "12 steps to Successful Water Boiling" but it didn't make the cut.

I think that's because anything that takes 12 steps isn't worth the effort.

*ducks coffee cups*

261 Bobblehead  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:29:00pm

re: #203 jaunte

It was a relief to get through the whole thing without a giant ink splatter.

Your cover reminds me of some fine work I've seen in childrens' literature. Do you, perhaps, work in that field?

262 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:29:08pm

Its complicated

First someone up there said AIPAC should act to cut aid to Turkey. Bad idea, here's why- Turkey's current PM is an Islamist, he thinks and formulates things the way Islamists do. Nonetheless he has been very helpful in facilitating negotiations with Syria. Turkey is a US ally. It follows that AIPAC, which often goes to bat for the entire US foreign aid bill is only opposed to aid or weapon's transfers to enemies of the US. So long as Turkey is not enemy, AIPAC would support their getting aid.

Peres showed a lot of fire and passion, it took Israel a few years, they are horrible on PR, but they finally figured out how to use Hamas' charter. Peres is not my favorite guy but at this setting, he was just outstanding.

As for Erdogan, he may not know it yet but he has a long border and the New Persian Empire threatens his country from one end of it to the other. The day may come when he is very glad his country has a military assistance treaty with Israel.

263 june_july  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:29:19pm

Peres was brilliant.

This may be his finest hour. I hope the media gives this as much play as possible.

264 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:29:20pm

re: #242 UberInfidel67

Yes. There are some things that are just not acceptable. Unless you are muslim, there is no earthly or unearthly reason for you to go about slaughtering other human beings. God reads your heart and follows your actions...not which "religion" you follow.

"If you are a Muslim." You mean all Muslims? That's what you are indicating, since you say "unless," which seems all inclusive.

265 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:29:39pm

re: #259 jaunte

You got Walter. Most are open to claiming, but the small blue lizard is Sharmuta, and Mandy is wearing pearls and nursing a glass of Basil.

I thought Mandy was slicing the main course!

266 Bobblehead  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:29:45pm

re: #223 Noam Sayin'

Are you the lizard in pearls?

That was my guess also.

267 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:29:45pm

re: #254 Walter L. Newton

I thought that was in a chair next to you, I was guessing albusteve! Guess I should rethink that - and I don't know why I think it's him, I just do!

268 Racer X  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:30:05pm

re: #238 ArmyWife

I'm lovin' the book titles. Did you have inspiration for the Lizards at the table? I know who I think they would be. Walter we got, but I'd like to know if the others match with what I'm thinking.


ROFLMAO!

Knife Fighting
- Iron Fist
269 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:30:06pm

re: #254 Walter L. Newton

I want to know who is that cute little female blue lizard sitting in my lap (well, I'd like to think it's a female and it's sitting in my lap).

It's Prince..
can you get me an autograph..ah when you are done with the posing?

270 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:30:06pm

re: #229 goddessoftheclassroom

Speaking of the prayer list.... could I email you?

271 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:30:07pm

re: #253 MandyManners


BTW, how's the mouse?

Haven't head hide nor hair of him in a few weeks.

I guess that's what happens when you EAT POISON!

272 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:30:15pm

re: #249 OldLineTexan
Warfare? Do you really think that God doesn't know the difference between defending yourself and outright murder? C'mon. Hunting and killing animals? They were put here for that reason. I am POSITIVE that God knows it would be to hard to eat a critter right off the hoof, alive and kicking. lol

273 JacksonTn  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:30:28pm

re: #230 Walter L. Newton

I submitted my "12 steps to Successful Water Boiling" but it didn't make the cut.

Walter ...you and Sharm looking pretty cozy in that bookcover ...

274 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:30:33pm

re: #259 jaunte

Opps! Ok, Walter - Its Sharm, not Steve. WHEW!

275 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:30:34pm

re: #259 jaunte

You got Walter. Most are open to claiming, but the small blue lizard is Sharmuta, and Mandy is wearing pearls and nursing a glass of Basil.

Sharm, you're sitting in my lap. Hehehe...

276 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:30:37pm

re: #261 Bobblehead

No, I enjoy drawing, and I have an art degree, but I'm not an illustrator. I make a living doing graphic design.

277 finallyhere  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:30:54pm

I liked Peres' admission that he pushed Oslo against the will of the people of Israel. He forgot to mention that negotiating with Arafat was also against the law when he started it.

I really feel for Peres. How awful it is to die knowing how much harm you brought to your people! Before this video I considered him a traitor who wanted to destroy Israel. Now I think that he is even more dangerous. He is a fool with ambition who is so sure that he is always right and knows what to do, that he would step over the dead bodies of his own people. So on the second thought, he probably will never admit even to himself how much Jewish blood is on his hands. By the way, if Peres and Co did not bring Arafat to Judea, Samaria, Gaza, there would be no dead Arabs too.

And the most scary thought: Obama has so much in common with Peres.

278 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:31:01pm

re: #242 UberInfidel67

Yes. There are some things that are just not acceptable. Unless you are muslim, there is no earthly or unearthly reason for you to go about slaughtering other human beings. God reads your heart and follows your actions...not which "religion" you follow.

so people who do not recognize jesus sin....that's harsh man

279 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:31:20pm
280 kyle_st  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:31:21pm

I'd say that Recep Tayyip Erdogan needs his ass kicked in a no nonsense sort of way!

281 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:31:31pm

Is it now unwritten custom to hijack at least one thread per day?

282 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:31:35pm

re: #255 jwb7605
Thank you. It's kinda nice to make sense in a thread when most of the threads confuse me. lol (economics, computer lingo, etc)

283 jim in virginia  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:31:39pm

re: #199 Marvo76

Except suicide,because once you cross the gates of death there is no Cross to appeal to...(at least that is what I have been taught)

Romans 8: Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

On a lighter note- that includes belief in evolution.

284 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:32:27pm

Science Thread! ---->

285 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:32:29pm

re: #259 jaunte

You got Walter. Most are open to claiming, but the small blue lizard is Sharmuta, and Mandy is wearing pearls and nursing a glass of Basil.

I'm the little blue Lizards? Aww, shucks.

286 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:33:07pm

re: #276 jaunte

I'm the lizard on the egg by the salt and pepper, right? ;)

287 avanti  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:33:20pm

New Fox poll

29 % Cried during the inaugural
40 % approval for congress now
65 % for Obama


Why ask who cried for crying out loud.

more

288 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:33:34pm

re: #270 Sharmuta

Speaking of the prayer list.... could I email you?

OF COURSE!

I'm getting ready to go to sleep, but I'll check my email and update the list first thing in the morning.

ALL LIZARDS: if you have an addition or update to the Lizard Prayer List, PLEASE email me. Your prayers have held me up through some very trying times, and I truly want to return the blessings to you.

My nic is blue for your convenience...

Good night, Lizards. Y'all will be in my prayers just before I fall asleep.

289 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:33:49pm

re: #286 ArmyWife

Weren't you taking the photo?

290 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:33:54pm

re: #265 jwb7605

I thought Mandy was slicing the main course!

Aren't those gamey buttocks fantastic!

291 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:33:55pm

re: #288 goddessoftheclassroom

night! Sleep well!

292 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:34:00pm

Erdogan Can Go To Hell - Attaturk, flawed as he was, must be spinning at about 7200 rpm in his grave. Make my day. That is all.

-S-

293 Sharmuta  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:34:17pm

I don't disagree per se, Fist. I'm just saying it's their nature to promote and protect life. It's frustrating to see the same course of action taken over and over again, knowing it will lead to the same end.

294 KitchenQueen  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:34:26pm

re: #232 UberInfidel67

Also, I like to think God is loving and compassionate enough to realize a person's inner struggle with mental illness


I agree. I think the church (I think we're talking about the same church) has changed its teaching on suicide because of advances in psychology. Someone who's mentally ill or disturbed may not really have full consent of the will. I'm sorry about your friend.

295 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:34:31pm

re: #285 Sharmuta

I'm the little blue Lizards? Aww, shucks.

And you're sitting in my lap. Hehehehe...

296 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:34:39pm

re: #289 jaunte

If it was me, everyone's heads would be cut off!

297 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:34:45pm

re: #264 Walter L. Newton
Just to clarify it for you Mr. NitPicker....I can only think of ONE religion that to this day, follows a "holy book" claiming it is perfectly fine to kill others who do not believe the way you do or behave differently than said "holy book" claims you should behave.. Who are you? The fucking thought police? Back off.

298 MandyManners  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:34:55pm

re: #271 Noam Sayin'

Haven't head hide nor hair of him in a few weeks.

I guess that's what happens when you EAT POISON!

Poor widdle mousie. I hope he doesn't get even with you by dying somewhere where he stinks that is not easy to access.

299 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:35:14pm

re: #260 Noam Sayin'

I think that's because anything that takes 12 steps isn't worth the effort.

*ducks coffee cups*

I would never throw a coffee cup when a brick is needed ...

300 HelloDare  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:35:20pm

By my count Perez talked for 22 minutes.

Erdogan spoke for 16, Moussa for 13 for a total of 29.

Breaking the rules of the debate, Erdogan asked for an extra minutes and spoke in a string of non sequiturs for three extra minutes. At the end before he walked off, he complained that Perez spoke for 25 minutes and that he spoke for half of that.

301 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:35:34pm

re: #286 ArmyWife

I'm the lizard on the egg by the salt and pepper, right? ;)

Thats my glass lizard sculpture that I posted one night here on LFG.

Image: lizard.jpg

302 jim in virginia  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:35:51pm

re: #198 Bobblehead

Oh my goodness jaunte! You are talented.

It's the morning dead thread crew! Littleoldlady, goddess, rustler, FBV...

303 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:36:07pm

re: #301 Walter L. Newton

Darnnit, Walter! I just want to be in there!

304 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:36:09pm

re: #295 Walter L. Newton

And you're sitting in my lap. Hehehehe...

Plus one for the evil laugh.

305 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:36:17pm

/Wow. The MSM is jumping all over this story.

WSJ and Yahoo are in there, but you'd think something like this would get a little more play from the bigs.

306 Bobblehead  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:36:48pm

re: #287 avanti

New Fox poll

29 % Cried during the inaugural
40 % approval for congress now
65 % for Obama

Why ask who cried for crying out loud.

more

Who gives a fat flying fig who cried during the inaugural. On second thought, did they ask why they were crying? Perhaps it was because GWB was leaving office not because BHO was coming in.

307 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:36:57pm

re: #289 jaunte

I think FBV is the last one on the left (closest to the camera).

308 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:37:09pm

re: #297 UberInfidel67

Just to clarify it for you Mr. NitPicker....I can only think of ONE religion that to this day, follows a "holy book" claiming it is perfectly fine to kill others who do not believe the way you do or behave differently than said "holy book" claims you should behave.. Who are you? The fucking thought police? Back off.

The book may tell them to do that, and yes, the radical Islamist want to do it and will do it, but not all Muslims kill becuase it is in the Koran.

Who are you. A fucking bigot?

309 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:37:34pm

re: #283 jim in virginia

Romans 8: Nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus.

On a lighter note- that includes belief in evolution.

/ZOT!

310 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:37:51pm

re: #303 ArmyWife

Darnnit, Walter! I just want to be in there!

I didn't even notice the lizard with the hat.

311 Killer Tomato  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:37:57pm

I'm extremely pleased not to see any sliced tomatoes on the table.
Thanks jaunte!
;-)

312 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:37:57pm

re: #278 albusteve
I answered "yes" to the same degree that people who DO recognize Jesus can sin. You're making it sound like anything a person does is OK if they don't believe in Jesus....because believing in Him means recognizing a sin. You got it twisted a bit there.

313 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:38:14pm
314 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:38:31pm

re: #284 HoosierHoops

Science Thread! ---->

In order to boost your self esteem, I offer the following two words:
Yeah. Right.

I've already commented over there.

315 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:38:38pm
316 Noam Sayin'  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:38:47pm

re: #298 MandyManners

Had to be done. He was too smart to fall for my traps. Hated to do it, really, but mice carry diseases.

317 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:39:05pm

re: #312 UberInfidel67

I answered "yes" to the same degree that people who DO recognize Jesus can sin. You're making it sound like anything a person does is OK if they don't believe in Jesus....because believing in Him means recognizing a sin. You got it twisted a bit there.

upding whore.

318 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:39:14pm

re: #313 buzzsawmonkey

Sumi ink is not enough. jaunte needs lotsa ink.

319 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:39:58pm

re: #312 UberInfidel67

I answered "yes" to the same degree that people who DO recognize Jesus can sin. You're making it sound like anything a person does is OK if they don't believe in Jesus....because believing in Him means recognizing a sin. You got it twisted a bit there.

no you have it twisted...I simply asked if it's a sin to not know Jesus and you said it was...youre presuming something I did not ask or say

320 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:40:04pm

re: #294 KitchenQueen
Thank you. I have come to peace with what he did a long time ago. I hope God has showed him mercy. I believe He has and that is why I do not fret for his soul anymore : )

321 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:41:11pm
322 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:41:49pm

re: #313 buzzsawmonkey

Thanks, good suggestions. It's on 140lb Windsor-Newton paper, but I didn't think about trying an ink brush technique.

323 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:41:55pm

re: #308 Walter L. Newton
Keep looking for your unicorn. It will have a moderate muslim riding on its back.

324 Maine's Michael  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:42:16pm

It is Peres who learned a lesson over last month, it seems.

His ideas for a 'new middle east' and a world without Jew hatred have been shown to be nothing more than opium dreams.

And, because of him and others who followed him, 1400 Jews died during the 'Oslo' years.

He has much to atone for. His presentation at Davos was a good beginning.

It is still disturbing that he considers 'Fatah' and SS Commandant Husseini's protege Abbas as potential peace partners.

SO he has a long way to go yet.

Still, I will remember him for this speech.


(oh, and fuck Erdogan - let him explain away the 500 kurds he killed last year)

325 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:42:47pm

re: #323 UberInfidel67

Keep looking for your unicorn. It will have a moderate muslim riding on its back.

Bigot. Jesus wouldn't like that...

326 eastvillageinfidel  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:42:50pm

I was struck by how many times the phrase 'humanitarian issue' was used to manipulate the perception of the action in Gaza. Killing thousands of Israelis with random rocket attack over the course of many years isn't a 'humanitarian issue'?

327 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:43:14pm
328 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:44:06pm

re: #319 albusteve

no you have it twisted...I simply asked if it's a sin to not know Jesus and you said it was...youre presuming something I did not ask or say

your exact quote (question) was

do people that do not recognize Jesus sin?


I interpreted it the same way UberInfidel67 did.
Which means to believers, the answer is yes. Trust me, that's not limited to Christians.

329 Syrah  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:45:32pm

re: #244 Syrah

PIMF! "there" should be "their". Darn spell checker. The wrong words are spelled correctly.,

330 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:45:34pm

re: #327 buzzsawmonkey

Hey, dip pens paid my rent for ten years, and brushes and coquille board for another fifteen.

Counterfeiter ?
/

331 Syrah  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:46:10pm

re: #323 UberInfidel67

Keep looking for your unicorn. It will have a moderate muslim riding on its back.

I thought that only virgins could ride Unicorns.

332 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:46:26pm

re: #325 Walter L. Newton
You have no right to call me a bigot. I assume you love everyone no matter who they are or what they have done. You are soooo enlightened that you have NEVER had any preconcieved notions about anyone....blah blah blah.

Here ----------------------> take this bag of SHHH and stfu

333 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:46:46pm

re: #328 jwb7605

I interpreted it the same way UberInfidel67 did.
Which means to believers, the answer is yes. Trust me, that's not limited to Christians.

bummer....whoever wrote that rule should reconsider...are all the people who lived before Jesus sitting in hell waiting for some kind of justice?...what about them?

334 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:46:48pm

re: #327 buzzsawmonkey

What were you illustrating?

335 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:49:06pm

re: #333 albusteve

bummer....whoever wrote that rule should reconsider...are all the people who lived before Jesus sitting in hell waiting for some kind of justice?...what about them?

I don't believe in hell.
I think you take your core with you.
Hell, to me, is spending eternity with a bad attitude and not being able to vent.

336 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:49:09pm

re: #328 jwb7605

I'm glad you found the qoute jwb. I interpreted it as: If you do not recognize Jesus, are you capable of committing a "sin". He obviously meant if you DON'T recognize Jesus, are you committing a sin.

As to that...not everyone recognizes Jesus as the Saviors. Jews for instance. But do I believe Jews are going to hell because they don't see Jesus the way I do? Ummmm NO.

337 Last Man  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:49:51pm

Good times ahead for Caliph Erdogan's food tasters.

338 lifeofthemind  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:49:55pm

Did everyone catch the big hug Erdogan exchanged with the Arab League boss? Also how said functionaries had refused to look at Peres while he spoke? The UN SecGen did look at Peres.

339 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:51:18pm

re: #338 lifeofthemind
And afterwards they probably all went into the men's room to practive their "wide stances".

340 Silhouette  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:51:22pm

re: #333 albusteve

bummer....whoever wrote that rule should reconsider...are all the people who lived before Jesus sitting in hell waiting for some kind of justice?...what about them?

albusteve.

You are misunderstanding their answer because you wrote your question in an ambiguous way.

"Do people that do not recognize Jesus sin?"

You meant, "Do people that do not recognize Jesus sin by not recognizing Him?"

They are answering, "Do non-Christians' actions like lying or stealing count as sin?"

341 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:51:25pm

re: #335 jwb7605

I don't believe in hell.
I think you take your core with you.
Hell, to me, is spending eternity with a bad attitude and not being able to vent.

so where do sinners go if there is no hell?...there is heaven for believers in Jesus...what is the alternative...how does one pay for their sin?

342 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:53:10pm

re: #341 albusteve
Limbo perhaps? Never having peace for your soul. Or for those who don't believe anything...maybe nothingness? Who knows.

343 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:53:12pm

re: #306 Bobblehead

Who gives a fat flying fig who cried during the inaugural. On second thought, did they ask why they were crying? Perhaps it was because GWB was leaving office not because BHO was coming in.

exactly -

Give it a year to 18 months and "THEY" will want "W" back. That is all.

-S-

344 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:53:45pm

re: #340 Silhouette
Very well put. Cleared up what I was trying to say. lol

345 Maine's Michael  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:54:05pm

Amr Moussa is a prick of the first degree.

He had to jump up to hug Erdogan, who was too pissed off at being upstaged and outclassed by a lowly Jew, and dissed by a journalist, and kept going, leaving Moussa's arms to enclose the air.

346 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:54:16pm

re: #340 Silhouette

albusteve.

You are misunderstanding their answer because you wrote your question in an ambiguous way.

"Do people that do not recognize Jesus sin?"

You meant, "Do people that do not recognize Jesus sin by not recognizing Him?"

They are answering, "Do non-Christians' actions like lying or stealing count as sin?"

wtf?...it was a simple question and your words are no different than mine...what happens to non believers?...that's a pretty simple question

347 summergurl  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:55:03pm

Amazing video - I could not pull myself away - Shimon Peres made me feel his frustration and sadness when he said "Where were the demonstrations when it was Israeli mothers and children being fired on? When a million people had to sleep in shelters each night?" .

348 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:55:22pm

re: #342 UberInfidel67

Limbo perhaps? Never having peace for your soul. Or for those who don't believe anything...maybe nothingness? Who knows.

do the Bushmen have a soul?

349 nines09  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:55:33pm

Where'd it go?

350 lifeofthemind  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:55:37pm

re: #168 Guanxi88

I think that depends on which side of the table you're sitting at. I dare say folks, with names remarkably similar to that of the current POTUS and his relatives in Kenya and Indonesia, would say we have just the right guy.

The regression of Turkey is a problem for America and Europe and everyone, including the poor souls who live there. It is not a matter of adjusting US policy to make some people like us more. It is a matter of understanding and reacting properly to serious and dangerous situations that are developing. People are going to either get poorer or die because of things like the rise of these violent and reactionary Islamist forces. Obama is the wrong man to deal with them. The results will be bad even for his relatives, unless like Amadenijehad you are in a hurry to see the world end anyway.

351 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:55:42pm

re: #346 albusteve
That was not your question. What happenes to non-believers? I don't know. I am not one. Are you able to commit a sin though...even though you are a non-believer? I would answer yes.

352 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:55:54pm

re: #332 UberInfidel67

You have no right to call me a bigot. I assume you love everyone no matter who they are or what they have done. You are soooo enlightened that you have NEVER had any preconcieved notions about anyone....blah blah blah.

Here ----------------------> take this bag of SHHH and stfu

Because I am not going to let you lump ALL MUSLIMS into one group, a group of killers. Period. Do you understand that? That's what you did in your comment above. Period. And you admitted it. Period.

Yes, I have had preconceived notions about who groups of people, in the past, than when someone pointed out to me that I was being bigoted, I re-examined my thought and considered the possibility that I was wrong.

That's what I was doing for you. It appears to me that you are the worst kind of bigot. One who's bigotry is pointed out and prefers to say a bigot.

Got it now?

353 summergurl  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:55:54pm

re: #338 lifeofthemind

Did everyone catch the big hug Erdogan exchanged with the Arab League boss? Also how said functionaries had refused to look at Peres while he spoke? The UN SecGen did look at Peres.

The Arab League guy leaned over away from Peres and wouldn't look at him.

354 Haverwilde  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:56:43pm

God how I hate it when interesting threads get hyjacked into mundane discussion of religious ignorances.

355 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:56:56pm

re: #351 UberInfidel67

That was not your question. What happenes to non-believers? I don't know. I am not one. Are you able to commit a sin though...even though you are a non-believer? I would answer yes.


dont make me laugh....these are your rules not mine...dont all people sin?

356 Maine's Michael  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:57:06pm

What this video also showed was the essential difference between Jews and Muslims, and Israel and its neighbors.

357 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:57:41pm
358 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:57:43pm

re: #348 albusteve
Why wouldn't they? It doesn't work like this Jesus + belief = soul. I prefer to believe that God takes into consideration the reasons why large groups of civilization are not brought to him. Hence the need for missionaries in the past. If one does not know something, how can they be held accountable if no one ever told them?

359 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:57:50pm

re: #339 UberInfidel67

And afterwards they probably all went into the men's room to practive their "wide stances".

You are a gem. Now you're implying someone is gay when you don't even have any facts to suggest that.

What kind of person are you? I hope to hell you are 14 years old and have some time to grow up. Because if you are a Christian, you are a very bad example of a follower of Christ.

Feh.

360 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:58:24pm
361 Maine's Michael  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:58:44pm

This was actually great. A very public bitch slap, no, knee to the groin, of Israel's enemies.

That would be the whole world, actually.

362 cincinnati_kid37  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:58:45pm

Tayyip Erdogan walked off stage because he knew he had no words that would be more than pathetic against those of Shimon Peres.

363 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:58:58pm

re: #354 Haverwilde

God how I hate it when interesting threads get hyjacked into mundane discussion of religious ignorances.


me too...these heaven and hell people need to tighten up their theology...

364 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:59:42pm

NEWSFLASH! We are monsters. Well, maybe not Avanti, but the rest of us are just eevviiilll. The "working class" who voted against Obama? Morans, the lot of them.

6. Don't forget to include those idiot working class morons who continue to vote

against their own best financial interest, simply because they believe their leaders who tell them that if they just work hard enough, one day they will be among the top 1% in this country. Never mind that all the policies their leaders enact goes against that bull crap lie! Those people are who I hate. Morans! SammyWinstonJack

[Link: www.democraticunderground.com...]

365 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 6:59:43pm

re: #363 albusteve

me too...these heaven and hell people need to tighten up their theology...

Some of them need to start acting like the person they claim to worship!

366 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:00:00pm

re: #355 albusteve
YES! All people sin! Just because religion is not believed....can a "wrong" still be a sin? YES! Stop trying to twist the conversation. You will not win.

367 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:00:22pm

re: #358 UberInfidel67

Why wouldn't they? It doesn't work like this Jesus + belief = soul. I prefer to believe that God takes into consideration the reasons why large groups of civilization are not brought to him. Hence the need for missionaries in the past. If one does not know something, how can they be held accountable if no one ever told them?

right.. so my Bushmen are safe...they do not know Jesus but they have not sinned...I'm good with that

368 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:00:27pm

re: #357 buzzsawmonkey

Cool; if you described it, would I recognize your technique?

369 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:01:15pm

re: #368 jaunte

Cool; if you described it, would I recognize your technique?

I've seen it.

Image: united_states_one_dollar_bill_obverse.jpg

370 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:01:45pm

re: #366 UberInfidel67

YES! All people sin! Just because religion is not believed....can a "wrong" still be a sin? YES! Stop trying to twist the conversation. You will not win.

I'm not twisting anything...if you do not know Jesus have you sinned...what's twisy about that?

371 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:01:48pm

God, how I hate it when an interesting thread is hijacked by people bitching about the thread being hijacked!


///////////////////////////////////////

372 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:02:11pm

re: #369 Walter L. Newton

It's that Wall Street Journal guy!

373 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:02:24pm

re: #369 Walter L. Newton

LOL

374 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:02:25pm

re: #341 albusteve

so where do sinners go if there is no hell?...there is heaven for believers in Jesus...what is the alternative...how does one pay for their sin?

Let's just say it ("Heaven" and "Hell") is a big wide open space with no physical boundaries.
Haters, deniers, and people like that wander around aimlessly trying to find "the light", "the truth", whatever term you think suits. They are forever "lost in the wilderness", and don't get a roadmap.
The rest of us, meaning those who consciously didn't reject Him, are not lost, and have another path to follow. Some of us may end up on the outskirts of the big shiny prize, some of us may end up closer. We get roadmaps.

375 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:03:12pm

OK, I figured out who most of those guys are. Moussa is Egyptian, right? Ban-boy is obvious, the other two too. And then Peres. Wow! I'm surprised they let him speak - he contradicts everything the "international community" believes it knows about Israel. As shown by the applause when Erdogan spews and leaves.

But who's the smarmy Kraut at the end? Or is he a Swiss? "A treem of lahsting piss and jusstiss. Sank you."

And as for the three Abrahamic religions, he should take a look at yesterday's Egyptian Holocaust-denying video and then have a talk with the "rrreprrressentatiffs" of the third one.

376 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:04:18pm

re: #372 jaunte

It's that Wall Street Journal guy!

What? Don't understand you question. I just found a pic of a dollar bill, I don't know where it came from, just googled it.

377 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:04:31pm
378 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:04:40pm

re: #374 jwb7605

Let's just say it ("Heaven" and "Hell") is a big wide open space with no physical boundaries.
Haters, deniers, and people like that wander around aimlessly trying to find "the light", "the truth", whatever term you think suits. They are forever "lost in the wilderness", and don't get a roadmap.
The rest of us, meaning those who consciously didn't reject Him, are not lost, and have another path to follow. Some of us may end up on the outskirts of the big shiny prize, some of us may end up closer. We get roadmaps.

well a man has to know his limitations eh?...if you set them then you tell me what they are and the consequence for abridging them...it's your cal not mine...I'm a heathen and I'm trying to get a grip on where I go when I die...is this concept new to you?

379 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:05:35pm

re: #377 buzzsawmonkey

That, and all of a sudden the art directors started to look twelve years old.

I had the same problem with topless dancers, once.

380 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:06:19pm

re: #379 OldLineTexan

Oh geez. On that note, I am off to bed.

381 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:06:46pm

re: #375 Cato the Elder
LMAO @ smarmy kraut That's one I don't think my Grandmother ever used on my Grandpap. lol lol lol

382 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:07:01pm
383 avanti  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:07:10pm

Chip Saltsman quits

384 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:07:19pm

re: #378 albusteve

well a man has to know his limitations eh?...if you set them then you tell me what they are and the consequence for abridging them...it's your cal not mine...I'm a heathen and I'm trying to get a grip on where I go when I die...is this concept new to you?

Not at all. I'm also not trying to convince you of anything. You just asked me what I thought the deal was.

385 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:08:06pm

re: #380 ArmyWife

Oh geez. On that note, I am off to bed.

I could make another joke, but now I feel so guilty. I must be going to Hell.

/sarc tag from now on, I promise

386 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:08:07pm

re: #376 Walter L. Newton

re: #377 buzzsawmonkey

Working on an anti-counterfeiting project for a client awhile back I visited a secure facility in Virginia, inside which were billions worth of bearer bonds, and a small art department doing 'engraving' art in Freehand, line by line on their Macs. Downsized, it looked like a very very clean steel engraving.

387 Jim in Virginia  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:09:05pm

re: #379 OldLineTexan

I had the same problem with topless dancers, once.

Another reason I loved Houston.

388 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:09:34pm

re: #381 UberInfidel67

LMAO @ smarmy kraut That's one I don't think my Grandmother ever used on my Grandpap. lol lol lol

Heh. I lived in Germany for ten years, I get to whack them once in a while!

389 ArmyWife  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:10:20pm

re: #385 OldLineTexan

I was laughing, really! But still going to bed.

390 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:11:12pm

re: #387 Jim in Virginia

Another reason I loved Houston.

I quit going in those places long ago (bachelor party, birthday for a bud, whatever) right about the time that the cute dancers turned out to be my oldest daughter's age. Took the fun right out of being a standard oversexed male, I tells ya.

391 rumcrook  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:11:19pm

ok im just lurkin this thread, but the wide stance joke was funny.

392 Cato the Elder  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:11:35pm

Another good lick Peres got in: "When you (i.e. the UN) bombed Kosovo, you hit the [something] Embassy. Did you want to do that?"

393 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:11:35pm

re: #376 Walter L. Newton

What? Don't understand you question. I just found a pic of a dollar bill, I don't know where it came from, just googled it.

Sorry, I thought you were making a visual joke.
(there's an illustrator that built a career on doing the line art illustrations in WSJ)

394 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:11:43pm

re: #388 Cato the Elder
My Gram used to call him "A Hitler sonofabitch" knowing it would really piss him off. That whole side of the family hated being called Germans....they were originally from Transylvania. (I think I will call my brother a smarmy kraut the next time he pisses me off. lol)

395 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:12:30pm

re: #391 rumcrook
Careful there...you might be called a bigot.

396 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:13:35pm

re: #392 Cato the Elder
Hmmm pissed off and smart assed? I like it.

397 rumcrook  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:13:47pm

re: #395 UberInfidel67

smirk

398 albusteve  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:13:56pm

re: #395 UberInfidel67

Careful there...you might be called a bigot.

some people deserve it wouldn't you say?

399 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:14:38pm

re: #393 jaunte

Sorry, I thought you were making a visual joke.
(there's an illustrator that built a career on doing the line art illustrations in WSJ)

No, I was making a joke that Buzz was a counterfeiter.

400 summergurl  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:14:53pm

re: #392 Cato the Elder

Another good lick Peres got in: "When you (i.e. the UN) bombed Kosovo, you hit the [something] Embassy. Did you want to do that?"

That was a good point he made... upding for him on that one

401 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:15:06pm
402 Sheepdogess  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:15:45pm

re: #359 Walter L. Newton

Settle down Walter.

403 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:15:48pm
404 Marvo76  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:16:11pm

re: #315 Iron Fist

I've never really gotten the "Suicide is unforgivable" line of reasoning. So the lowest pedophile rapist murderer (think John Wayne Gayce or Mohammed) can be forgiven if they only ask for forgiveness, but if I take a bottle of sleeping pills in the depths of my despair it's "Go to Hell. Go directly to hell. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200"? That doesn't make much sense.

The impression I got from my teachings was that once you cross the vail of death, your options of forgivenss were ended, it is only the living that can be forgiven, someone better learned in the scriptures could give you a better picture, but no you don't go to hell, yu wait for your judgement, then if you are not a repentant sinner. (already saved and under the blood) then you are sent to hell.
On a different note I hope there is hope of the suicide to be redeemed, I had two dear friends and an Uncle buy there way to the other side with lead ennemas of their brains, and I would hope they can be forgiven, but again someone more learned than me would be better source of info..

405 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:16:25pm

re: #395 UberInfidel67

Careful there...you might be called a bigot.

No stupid, Cato said "a smarmy German," based on what he saw in the video, which was an observation. He didn't imply that all Germans were smarmy. You're too young to understand the difference. Or too bigoted.

406 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:17:18pm

re: #402 Sheepdogess

Settle down Walter.

Er, no. But thanks for the suggestion.

407 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:17:51pm

re: #405 Walter L. Newton

No stupid, Cato said "a smarmy German," based on what he saw in the video, which was an observation. He didn't imply that all Germans were smarmy. You're too young to understand the difference. Or too bigoted.

Ummm, Walter?

That crack wasn't in response to Cato. It was the "wide stance" joke you took exception to earlier. I just clicked back through to verify, BTW.

408 rumcrook  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:18:58pm

re: #407 OldLineTexan

which is still funny by the way

409 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:20:00pm

re: #408 rumcrook

which is still funny by the way

I'm not going to get involved in that. Just trying to keep the fights about actual things that were actually typed. Mistaken fights ruin the taste of my popcorn.

410 hazzyday  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:21:03pm

Ergodan sounds like an inexperienced hot head. Peres came off as having some wisdom. Muossa I thought started off bad but later made some points I agreed with.

Highlights.

Hamas's idea of democracy is one day of voting and 4 years of killing.
The tragedy of Gaza is not Israel but is Hamas
It's time to turn the page in the Middle East and have all states recognize Israel.
Israel has never closed the borders to aid, the borders get closed when Hamas bombs them.
The borders are open to strawberries but not to rockets.

411 hazzyday  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:21:29pm

Peres gave a very good speech.

412 rumcrook  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:21:34pm

mmm popcorn.. ..extra butter....

413 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:22:00pm
414 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:22:36pm

re: #407 OldLineTexan

Ummm, Walter?

That crack wasn't in response to Cato. It was the "wide stance" joke you took exception to earlier. I just clicked back through to verify, BTW.

My mistake, so, take my comment as a preemptive strike before UberInfidel67 makes a bigoted comment about Germans. Consider it instructive in explaining the difference between having something negative to say about a certain person versus UberInfidel67 all inclusive comments about Muslims.

415 Bobblehead  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:24:27pm

re: #393 jaunte

jaunte,
Have you ever thought about book illustration?. What first struck me about your cover was the expressions on the faces of the lizards. They just drew me into the picture and made me explore every nook and cranny of the make believe room. One of the reasons I loved reading to my son when he was little was the pure enjoyment I got from the illustrations. Any chance us humble lizards could see some more of your work?

416 nyc redneck  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:24:56pm

mr. peres said, 'democracy is not a matter of elections, it is a matter of CIVILIZATION'
and the israelis are dealing w/ beasts who have ho idea what he is talking abt.
hamas' official charter is 'kill jews'
israel left gaza. all the settlers and settlements were removed.
that made no difference.
israel put 20 million dollars into green houses which the palis destroyed w/ a vengeance.
israel suffered 100s of rockets falling at random for yrs.

i hated hearing mr. peres trying to convince stupid barbarians in modern suits at a civilized event that israel has a right to exist.
and then the inarticulate bumbling asshat erdogan, walked off because peres got applause from the audience.
mr. peres was the only guy on the panel worth listening to,
fck primitive grievance theater bums in western clothes .

417 summergurl  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:25:26pm

re: #411 hazzyday

Peres gave a very good speech.

thought so too - wish more folks could see it...maybe there would be more sympathy --

418 rumcrook  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:26:41pm

re: #416 nyc redneck


fck primitive grievance theater bums in western clothes .

that is the quote of the night.

419 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:27:55pm

re: #415 Bobblehead

I'll have to do a lot more first! I'm glad you enjoyed exploring the picture; that's a perfect description of the effect I was trying for.

420 summergurl  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:28:17pm

re: #416 nyc redneck

mr. peres said, 'democracy is not a matter of elections, it is a matter of CIVILIZATION'
and the israelis are dealing w/ beasts who have ho idea what he is talking abt.
hamas' official charter is 'kill jews'
israel left gaza. all the settlers and settlements were removed.
that made no difference.
israel put 20 million dollars into green houses which the palis destroyed w/ a vengeance.
israel suffered 100s of rockets falling at random for yrs.

i hated hearing mr. peres trying to convince stupid barbarians in modern suits at a civilized event that israel has a right to exist.
and then the inarticulate bumbling asshat erdogan, walked off because peres got applause from the audience.
mr. peres was the only guy on the panel worth listening to,
fck primitive grievance theater bums in western clothes .

And Peres also said how they have come to agreements with Egypt and Jordan.

421 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:29:26pm

re: #403 taxfreekiller

Hey, I noticed you down dinged me on a comment above. Congrats, you are human.
:)

422 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:32:00pm
423 nyc redneck  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:33:14pm

re: #393 jaunte

you did such a great job on the cook book cover.
i love it. it is so appropriate for a cookbook w/ lgf lizard recipes.
and it's cute.
thank you for putting your talent to good use here.
and thanks to reine, if she is reading.
:D

424 Catttt  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:33:54pm

President Peres gave an impassioned but logical and factual speech, full of specifics. Even the emotional points, such as the fact that thousands and thousands of Israelis have to live with the possibility of a random bomb hitting them EVERY NIGHT, were based on clearly stated fact. I found myself nodding a lot.

President Erdogan, in the few comments he made, refuted NONE of those points, and he made no points. Saying "People died," "children on the beach died," etc., means absolutely nothing whatsoever. His comments were like a series of AP stringer photos.

425 nyc redneck  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:34:53pm

re: #422 taxfreekiller

This guy who walked off the stage, just like say, Whore-who-shit-men down the trails, as long as its not them fighting these 50 year wars its all good, me I say go get the mad mullas who are behind it all and war their ass's out good.

You can not win unless you fight, no one has fought these penny ass thugs yet, give me and the Marines about 90 days, done deal.

"All's quite on the Middle Eastern Front"!

you read my mind

426 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:35:15pm

re: #424 Catttt

President Peres gave an impassioned but logical and factual speech, full of specifics. Even the emotional points, such as the fact that thousands and thousands of Israelis have to live with the possibility of a random bomb hitting them EVERY NIGHT, were based on clearly stated fact. I found myself nodding a lot.

President Erdogan, in the few comments he made, refuted NONE of those points, and he made no points. Saying "People died," "children on the beach died," etc., means absolutely nothing whatsoever. His comments were like a series of AP stringer photos.

I thought Erdogan's remarks resembled Blago's speech today.

427 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:35:24pm

re: #423 nyc redneck

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it. :-)

428 [deleted]  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:36:24pm
429 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:38:06pm

re: #427 jaunte

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it. :-)

You're still here? I thought it was awesome.

430 GrammatonCleric  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:38:54pm

Th Real Erdogan :

**Note his seating position**. Gulbuddin Hekmatyar is a warlord a a designated terrorist in the US. And was solely responsible for razing Kabul.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

431 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:39:00pm

re: #428 taxfreekiller

and yes, I'll go with them, but not as the radio guy, not good that antenna sticking up

And I'm not carrying the BAR. My friend's dad told me the guy with the BAR gets shot first...

432 carefulnow  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:40:39pm

re: #427 jaunte

I liked it, too!

433 UberInfidel67  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:40:57pm

re: #405 Walter L. NewtonHey loudmouth....I was referring to the remark about the "wide stance" being funny. Read before you start running your trap.

434 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:44:05pm

re: #364 ArmyWife

NEWSFLASH! We are monsters. Well, maybe not Avanti, but the rest of us are just eevviiilll. The "working class" who voted against Obama? Morans, the lot of them.


[Link: www.democraticunderground.com...]


Is being a moran like being a honco? I are confuidated. ..

435 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:45:53pm

re: #426 jwb7605

I thought Erdogan's remarks resembled Blago's speech today.

Yeah- like snipe tarts. . .no substance, no foundation in reality. . .

436 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:46:11pm

re: #433 UberInfidel67

Hey loudmouth....I was referring to the remark about the "wide stance" being funny. Read before you start running your trap.

Hey, I already offered an apology in my re: #414 Walter L. Newton...

437 nyc redneck  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:48:28pm

re: #435 DisturbedEma

Yeah- like snipe tarts. . .no substance, no foundation in reality. . .

exactly, no substance. he was out classed by the honest heart felt truth from peres and he knew it. so he walked off like a loser.

438 jwb7605  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:49:30pm

re: #437 nyc redneck

exactly, no substance. he was out classed by the honest heart felt truth from peres and he knew it. so he walked off like a loser.


my only argument with an otherwise fine comment.

439 nyc redneck  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:50:50pm

re: #438 jwb7605

my only argument with an otherwise fine comment.

ok,
:D

440 jaunte  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:52:00pm

re: #429 OldLineTexan

re: #432 carefulnow

Thanks; had to step away for a minute to go find the neighborhood-wandering dog.

441 OldLineTexan  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:53:59pm

re: #434 DisturbedEma

Is being a moran like being a honco? I are confuidated. ..

No that idiot thinks we're all Irish.

In my case it's partly true, but not for all Lizards.

Just the green ones!

442 Archimedes  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 7:54:43pm

In some ways Peres was great. I loved his passion, and his appeal to the evidence and what not, but negotiation is not the answer. This is war, for crying out loud. You have to end the opposition, otherwise it is death by a thousand tiny cuts, which has been going on for decades over there.

I mean, the other side is not going to magically become rational, and it is not rational to negotiate with wholly irrational people out for your destruction. Take a page out of the movie 300!

443 dmann  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 8:00:45pm

The turks are nothing more than knuckle dragging barbarians who tried to adopt a secular perspective in order to gain access to the power and technology of the West. Sadly the EU has devolved to a point where the turks no longer need to hide their true beliefs, thankfully they detest Arabs as much as Jews. As for the useless Korean mouthpiece for the UN, hide the young Japanese girls....pathetic tool.

444 TheOtherCanadian  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 8:03:02pm

Ban Ki Moon is totally detached from reality..much like many of his country's strange citizens. I've been unsuccessfully trying to understand what motivates Koreans to set themselves ablaze as a protest tactic. I frequent a British Pub in Toronto, and sit next to a Korean convenience store owner. Can any lizoids explain Korean mindset to me please. While you're at it, explain why Philipinos who crucify themselves and why they are more likely to impersonate Elvis than any other group. These things are important to meeee....

445 dkorta  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 8:03:05pm

re: #83 Cato the Elder

There's no f*cking way I'm watching over an hour of Davos Dimwits bloviating about the "fragile peace process". Will wait for video to load, then zero in on the part Charles mentions.

Did anyone have the stomach to sit through the whole thing?

Yeah, I watched it up until the last couple of minutes where some guy stood up and bloviated about all the "religious leaders" in the audience who were all set to pitch in and help with the "peace process".

I expected something like Jerry Springer and didn't get it. Peres was visibly angry, and I don't blame him. The previous two speakers had just spent half an hour peddling the same old crap about the poor, poor Palestinians and their humanitarian tragedy. Peres' hand was shaking at one point as he was trying to read from a document. The Turk's walking off the stage was kind of anti-climatic since you needed an interpreter to understand what he was saying, and the interpreter seemed just as anxious as everyone else to just get the hell out of there since they were running late.

But I wish Peres would have stressed the therapeutic effect a good ass-kicking can have on a bully. The Israelis gave Hamas a bloody nose and knocked out a few teeth. Let's hope that's enough.

The anti-Israel goofs' legs were apparently all a-tingly as they expressed HOPE for the CHANGES to be wrought by the new Obama administration after 8 years of that awful Bush.

446 akak  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 8:04:45pm

re: #365 Walter L. Newton

Some of them need to start acting like the person they claim to worship!

Qur'an 33:36, "It is not fitting for a Muslim man or woman to have any choice in their affairs when a matter has been decided for them by Allah and His Messenger. They have no option."

447 DisturbedEma  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 8:08:37pm

re: #446 akak

Qur'an 33:36, "It is not fitting for a Muslim man or woman to have any choice in their affairs when a matter has been decided for them by Allah and His Messenger. They have no option."

the domination unique to a theocracy. . .because G-d says so. . .now do it. . .shudder

448 akak  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 8:12:19pm

re: #447 DisturbedEma

the domination unique to a theocracy. . .because G-d says so. . .now do it. . .shudder

shudder won't work, it'll have to be a little more forceful

449 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 8:19:00pm

Late to the thread, I just now saw the video.
Erdogan was devastated and simply could not tolerate the fact that the Israeli Jew argued so convincingly and received a great round of applause. That is why he rudely left in such a snit.

450 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 8:23:56pm

re: #416 nyc redneck

mr. peres said, 'democracy is not a matter of elections, it is a matter of CIVILIZATION'
and the israelis are dealing w/ beasts who have ho idea what he is talking abt.
hamas' official charter is 'kill jews'
israel left gaza. all the settlers and settlements were removed.
that made no difference.
israel put 20 million dollars into green houses which the palis destroyed w/ a vengeance.
israel suffered 100s of rockets falling at random for yrs.

i hated hearing mr. peres trying to convince stupid barbarians in modern suits at a civilized event that israel has a right to exist.
and then the inarticulate bumbling asshat erdogan, walked off because peres got applause from the audience.
mr. peres was the only guy on the panel worth listening to,
fck primitive grievance theater bums in western clothes .

nyc redneck -

Back in the days of Cecil Rhodes, the British had a term for "grievance theatre bums in western clothes. The word was "W.O.G." - a politically correct term, for the time that signified "Westernized Oriental Gentleman."
That is all.

-S-

451 Truth Dr.  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 8:25:58pm

Erdogan is the type of Turk that would have carried out the Armenian Genocide. A hateful, hateful man. Self-determination for the Kurds! End the Kurdish Genocide. Turkey out of occupied Kurdistan.

452 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 8:30:57pm

re: #451 Truth Dr.

Erdogan is the type of Turk that would have carried out the Armenian Genocide. A hateful, hateful man. Self-determination for the Kurds! End the Kurdish Genocide. Turkey out of occupied Kurdistan.

Truth Dr. -

Unfortunately, the Armenian Genocide was partially carried out by Attaturk, check the history. Nevertheless, I get and appreciate your point.

-S-

453 Truth Dr.  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 8:34:12pm

Dr. Shalit - Whether the genocide was carried out by Ataturk for secular reasons or if its today's genocidalists, such as Hamas or Hezbollah, Erdogan would be at the front of the line ready to slay the innocent.

The Organization of Islamic Countries is the fig leaf that the genocidalists in Sudan are hiding behind in committing bloody murder in Darfur.

454 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 8:36:24pm

re: #449 Spare O'Lake

Late to the thread, I just now saw the video.
Erdogan was devastated and simply could not tolerate the fact that the Israeli Jew argued so convincingly and received a great round of applause. That is why he rudely left in such a snit.

Concur. He feels that his Islamic faith makes him right and anyone who disagrees should be silenced. Well, frak that! I'm glad he got some push back. He's got a lifetime of bad lessons to unlearn.

455 mfarmer1  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 8:39:51pm

Wow. Shimon Peres was outstanding. We can all hope to be so eloquent and vibrant at 85 years. Reading directly from Hamas' charter was particularly powerful. I was surprised to hear his directness in such a forum, especially given his background as a lifelong member of Labor and now Kadima. If that's the stance of those parties, whoa, wait until Netanyahu gets his chance on a similar stage.

456 Dr. Shalit  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 8:41:23pm

re: #9 GFinOaktown

Remember all, Islam means peace.

GF -

WRONGO - Starr - ISLAM means SURRENDER - SALAAM means Peace, as does SHALOM or for that matter ALOHA. Never forget that.

-S-

457 Truth Dr.  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 8:44:04pm

Erdogan bears a striking resemblance to Hitler with lighter hair. Mein Kampf translates to "My Struggle", Jihad means struggle. Turkey committed genocide against the Armenians.

Erdogan should shut his big-assed mouth and repent for his sins and the sins of his mother, the town slut (if she had him, she has to be a slut).

458 CommonCents  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 8:44:55pm

re: #65 MJ

Turkey: some 700 Kurdish rebels militants killed in 2008

ANKARA, Turkey: Turkey's military says its troops killed 696 Kurdish rebels freedom fighters in clashes in 2008.

Military spokesman Brig. Gen. Metin Gurak says another 237 rebels fighters were captured and 177 surrendered.

Gurak said Friday that 171 security personnel including soldiers, police and government-paid village guards, were killed fighting the rebels militants.

There was no immediate comment from the rebel opposition group, the Kurdistan Workers' Party, which has been fighting for autonomy in southeast Turkey since 1984. The group has denied the military's death toll in the past.

Turkey last year launched several air force attacks and one major ground operation against rebel bases in northern Iraq.

[Link: www.iht.com...]

How the media would report it if it applied the same rules it apllies to Israel.

The PKK has no air force. Turkey's use of air strikes is a DISPROPORTIONATE response. They are Nazis oppressors!

459 Promethea  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 8:57:08pm

re: #198 Bobblehead

Oh my goodness jaunte! You are talented.

Lotsa updings for the wonderful art! You showed my likeness perfectly, Jaunte!

460 quickredfox  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 8:57:45pm

That cookbook cover -- like, totally awesome, dude! (California lizard here)

Just as Bobblehead said, it draws you right in.

461 Teacake!  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 9:05:11pm

Islamiphobia is a crime against humanity? LOLOL What a farce and so fucking sickening, this entire pallie "crisis" The entire world is so concerned for fucking savages and none of them have a clue really.

462 Teacake!  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 9:09:32pm

I thought all nations have borders and that all nations protect their boarders? But when Israel needs to protect her boarders from enemies, international CRISIS! The biggest sickest circus show.

463 CommonCents  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 9:23:30pm

Finally made it thru the whole video.

Peres was excellent! If anyone can listen to that and not be moved to support Israel, then they are in bed Islamic death heads.

Ban Ki-Moon, iffy at best. He's tough to understand but I thought I heard him say something about $613 billion in aid. WTF! On the upside he called for Hamas to stop provoking Israel and to Israel to exercise maximum restraint. I take that as a positive because he didn't say Israel was provoking Hamas.

Erdogan? Go to hell you childish wanna be tyrant. Placating to Hamas and referring to them as a legitimate political entity, I call bullshit. And to bring up the "dead children on the beach". He must have missed the update, that was pali-on-pali.


That's my recap. Once again, I loved Peres, he rocked.

464 winston06  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 9:34:50pm

Turkey is the newest of the Islamic Republics right after Iran, Pakistan and Libya. That's really sad!

465 winston06  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 9:37:41pm

re: #4 realwest

I think he is the Prime Minister of Turkey. I could be wrong.

466 BLBfootballs  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 10:57:50pm

I was struck by Erdogan's egotism -- he apparently believes that his radiating charisma combined with a firm grip on Ignatius' arm is sufficient justification to grab the spotlight and keep hundreds of people frozen in their seats forever. It's below crude -- it's tyrannical.

I suspect the man really is a well-dressed barbarian.

467 notutopia  Thu, Jan 29, 2009 11:03:10pm

Peres gave an empassioned speech filled with facts and figures. He is clear in his message; imploring for peace and for Gaza to remain it's own state and for it to rid itself of dictatorships.
It was obvious that the Turks and Arabs present were
only interested in defending Gaza and sympathizing with the Palestinians and laying sole blame on Israel.
How dare they accuse Israel of murder!
Peres asked: Why have the Gazans destroyed the greenhouses which provided a means for food for their own people? Why have they lied and said that water, food, fuel and medical services were never made available to them from Israel? What have they done with the millions of dollars that Israel has given to them? Why do they use innocent families and children as human shields?
Why do they dig tunnels and transport Hamas leaders and missiles and continue striking Israelis?
No one answered Peres' questions.

468 uptight  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:20:31am

Shimon Peres should have thrown the Turkish policing of Kurdistan right in that monkey's face,

Here's what I would have said to him:

What about you Mr Erdogan? What about your country Turkey? Let's examine YOUR record for a moment.

In 1993 Turkey sent 50,000 troops into Iraq to crush Kurdish PKK guerillas.

The Kurds weren't trying to wipe out Turkey and its civilians, like Hamas hopes to do, but your country's actions were brutal and way beyond the scale of anything ever seen between Israel and the "Palestinians".

The ego of Turkish nationalism can't afford any land for an independent Kurdistan, so Turkey killed 40,000 Kurds and ethnically cleansed 3 million others. Forests were defoliated, dissenting political parties were banned with their leaders jailed or exiled.

And you, you Mr Erdogan have the fucking nerve to criticise the way we handle security situations?

Well, that's what I would have said to him....

469 Teacake!  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:22:17am
No one answered Peres' questions.

All answers if honest at best would be hypocritical, absurd and pathetic. It seems the entire reason that islam exists is for billions of people to obsessively think about and do all they can to kill Jews in order to make allah happy so they can to to paradise.

The roadblock to peace is islam and the tunnel vision followers.

470 uptight  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 12:44:54am

re: #469 Teacake!

All answers if honest at best would be hypocritical, absurd and pathetic. It seems the entire reason that islam exists is for billions of people to obsessively think about and do all they can to kill Jews in order to make allah happy so they can to to paradise.

The roadblock to peace is islam and the tunnel vision followers.

The Ismaelis are fine and the whirling dervishes aren't noted for their hostility - neither is the nice Pakistani gentleman who runs the newsagent down the road to me....but in the final analysis, we do take on the attitudes and characteristics of those we worship.

Mohammed was a thief, a sexual deviant and a violent, jew-hating, land-grabbing warmonger.

The extent to which Muslims take on these wonderful charateristics depends on how closely they want to model themselves on him and follow the korans and its teachers.

Purity in Islam means being like the prophet. Heaven help us!

471 hazzyday  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:52:14am

re: #444 TheOtherCanadian

Ban Ki Moon is totally detached from reality..much like many of his country's strange citizens. I've been unsuccessfully trying to understand what motivates Koreans to set themselves ablaze as a protest tactic. I frequent a British Pub in Toronto, and sit next to a Korean convenience store owner. Can any lizoids explain Korean mindset to me please. While you're at it, explain why Philipinos who crucify themselves and why they are more likely to impersonate Elvis than any other group. These things are important to meeee....

I had it explained to me by a Korean as small country, hot tempers. Something to do with kimchi.

472 hazzyday  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:53:28am

re: #441 OldLineTexan

No that idiot thinks we're all Irish.

In my case it's partly true, but not for all Lizards.

Just the green ones!

honco's go on cursades

473 Hhar  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 1:58:36am

Way to go Peres!

His " repeated And by the way" reminded me of my mother in law (Hungarian Jew: crazy, the lot of them). When she says that, you know it isn't gonna be a "By the way", its gonna be a right jab.

474 Scion9  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 2:45:38am

re: #35 Sharmuta

It's very sad that hatred can so override intellectual honesty. If Erdogan were to be honest or consistent, then Israel has the right to defend itself from hamas as the Turks do against the PKK. The next time Erdogan gives any sort of speech about Turkey's right to go after the PKK, he should be treated to the same behavior he himself engaged in.

What's sad is that no one will- he won't suffer for his blatant hypocrisy. Sad.

In the scope of Turkish politics he isn't a hypocrite at all. The Kurds are wrong because they are not Turks. It has nothing to do with any kind of political ideology that posits all people have natural rights, or deserve anything from their government. It is all racialism essentialism. It is actually illegal to be 'unpatriotic' (that being defined as impugning Turkishness). A Turk is always right when dealing with a non-Turk, collectively (in matters that pertain to Turkey).

Israeli's (or anyone else) are not entitled to their own 'essentialism' any more than the Nazis could recognize a second master race. They can freely decide to back one horse or the other in a way that is completely separated from their own situation.

475 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 3:47:24am
476 abaleh  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 3:56:12am

Peres shouldn't appologize to Erdokan. He should make an official trip to Yerevan and lay a wreath at the Armenian Genocide memorial. Israel should stop accepting such backstabbing behaviour from "friends" who are happy to accept it's military technology and to use its influence with America to stop anti-Turkish resolutions.

477 JenBee  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 4:11:13am

Wow that was fabulous. Mr Perez got in nearly every relevant 'talking point' that seems to be purposely left out of most MSM reporting.

And Mr Erdogan's response is just so pathetically, typically Muslim -- bringing up the past. Muslims live in the past. They can't stop reminiscing about their glorious past. And all Mr Erdogan can do is bring up the past, how PAST Israeli leaders were barbaric (whatever), PAST (supposed) Israeli aggression... he can't say a word about what's going on TODAY because it's so obvious that Hamas is the problem TODAY that even some Arab leaders were vocal about it this time 'round.

And the body language of all four of the men surrounding Mr Perez... most of the time while Mr Perez was talking, they were leaning as far away from him as possible in their chairs. The absolute disdain and disrespect revealed by their body language was so telling.

478 Maine's Michael  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 5:10:40am

Great comments from everybody today.

Important thread.

479 ConserVAtive  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 6:02:58am

It's possible that Erdogan (via his tantrum in Davos) is revving up his Islamist base in preparation for new parliamentary elections...major friction between Islamists and secularists (and the Turkish General Staff) and he may be positioning his Islamist allies to take advantage of all the attention generated.

If anyone knows the dynamics of the Arab (Palestinian) / Jewish conflict in that area of the world, it's the (Ottoman) Turks. Read nothing more into his tantrum. It was for domestic political consumption only...Erdogan and the Turks could care less about the Palestinians or any other oppressed minority. Just ask the Kurds or the Armenians. Peres should be given a medal for showing restraint.

480 [deleted]  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 7:43:12am
481 Sharmuta  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 7:44:30am

re: #480 Blue Pinky

Can you find another source? That site has repeatedly attacked Charles, and supports european neo-fascist political parties.

482 quickredfox  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 7:52:28am

re: #479 ConserVAtive

As noted in the links, he returns to Ankara to a hero's welcome. Will they follow the shoe-throwing precedent and make a statute of him stomping off stage?

483 quickredfox  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 7:54:30am

re: #482 quickredfox

PIMP -- statue of him stomping off stage

484 Blue Pinky  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 7:54:51am

re: #481 Sharmuta

Can you find another source? That site has repeatedly attacked Charles, and supports european neo-fascist political parties.

Unfortunately, I don't see it anywhere else. Not for free, anyway.

485 quickredfox  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 8:00:32am

re: #483 quickredfox

PIMP -- statue of him stomping off stage

Sheesh, can't even get PIMF right! Preview Is My Pal? Not my morning I guess.

But stomp off when you can't (or won't) answer, and become a hero.

486 Sharmuta  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 8:36:45am

re: #484 Blue Pinky

I'm sure another source will present itself in the next few days. Though the site you linked isn't welcome, the gesture was thoughtful. Thanks.

487 soccerdad  Fri, Jan 30, 2009 9:00:59am

Wow. Typical. When you are outmaneuvered and slayed by logic, bluster and make a scene arguing about things that are off point. what is the point that 'other prime ministers were happy to go ride in to 'palestine' (where ever that is) on tanks? What's the point? You didn't respond to what would YOU do if Istanbul were attacked night, after night, after night. When you know you are facing reality, and have no response, bluster and walk off.

Peres was awesome!

488 RobCon  Sat, Jan 31, 2009 10:10:10am

A Turk, Egyptian, and Swiss lecturing Peres on what is decent and humane at the Whorehouse Economic forum. What a joke.


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