Creationists on the Texas State Board of Education are no longer satisfied with simply preaching that Darwin’s theories lead to atheism and Nazism and killing people; the latest email making the rounds in Texas blames the theory of evolution for cannibalism: ‘Jeffrey Dahmer Believed in Evolution’.
2 |
Sharmuta Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:14:58pm |
Just when you thought their arguments couldn't get less intellectually honest, they stoop to a new low. Unreal.
| 5 |
blangwort Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:17:20pm |
It's similar to Guilt by Association. Just because someone declares he believes in something, and that person happens to be one of the most amoral asswipes that have ever lived, does not mean the idea is also as bad.
I'm sure Adolph Hitler thought many aspects of physics were quite useful too, though that has no relevance as to validity of those ideals.
| 6 |
MJ Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:17:26pm |
Hitler was a vegetarian.
I guess that means all vegetarians are antisemitic.
Same logic. Same idiotic nonsense.
| 7 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:17:51pm |
“If a person doesn’t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges? That’s how I thought anyway. I always believed the theory of evolution as truth, that we all just came from the slime. When we died, you know, that was it, there was nothing….”
He tried to blame his actions on a science.
| 8 |
Kailen Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:18:21pm |
I bet Eric Harris believed in evolution too, when he wasn't too busy playing Doom.
But wait, what about the 9/11 hijackers? Doesn't radical Islam say "no" to evolution as well? If we were as depraved and as desperate as the creationists, we could try to link terrorism to "Intelligent Design".
But we know that correlation is not causation.
| 9 |
screaming_eagle Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:18:24pm |
Thinking of a line from the movie - Conan The Destroyer
"They thought if they digested me, my magic would be in their blood"
| 10 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:18:51pm |
If you can paint your opponents as cannibals, it's then possible to do just about anything to stop them.
| 11 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:19:49pm |
Creationists on the Texas State Board of Education
/what's the status of the textbook fight?
| 13 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:20:29pm |
re: #9 screaming_eagle
Thinking of a line from the movie - Conan The Destroyer
"They thought if they digested me, my magic would be in their blood"
Is that an Ahnuld line?
| 14 |
avanti Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:21:39pm |
Well, that explains my strange urge to kill and eat people.
| 16 |
Teacake! Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:22:18pm |
Maybe had he based his theory on some other missing human link rather than apes, the anti evolution folks wouldn't be so upset?
| 18 |
solomonpanting Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:24:05pm |
But, Obama believes in evolution and... uh... no wait....
| 19 |
Teacake! Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:24:08pm |
I sort of doubt anyone has figured out the urge for cannibalism. Perhaps jeff was into zombie movies too?
| 20 |
Fritz_Katz Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:25:08pm |
So, just because Jeffrey can chow down on young Vietnamese boys who can't defend themselves because liberal-leaning policemen deliver them back to his apartment, doesn't mean that there's a survival of the fittest?
Go ahead, ding me down. I don't care. :-)
| 21 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:25:17pm |
re: #19 Teacake!
I sort of doubt anyone has figured out the urge for cannibalism. Perhaps jeff was into zombie movies too?
Human equivalent for a Dog Eat Dog World!
//
| 22 |
Teacake! Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:26:29pm |
There was a guy here in New Orleans who after he killed his girlfriend, slept with her body for a few nights, then cut her up and cooked several parts of her. He had a lot of tattoos and was an alcoholic too. He then killed himself after the ordeal. It was horrible all the way around.
| 23 |
NJDhockeyfan Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:27:06pm |
Ben Stein Will Not Speak at UVM Commencement
Economist and TV personality Ben Stein won't be speaking at UVM this spring after all. UVM president Dan Fogel announced Monday, that Stein has withdrawn from speaking at graduation, and earning an honorary degree.Fogel says he received dozens of e-mails and calls from people upset about Stein's controversial views on creationism, intelligent design, and the role of science in the holocaust. "I am and remain very sorry I didn't anticipate the breadth and depth of these concerns. And that we will use a more consultative process going forward."
Fogel says people of all ideas are still welcome at UVM, but he says commencement is a time to focus on being inclusive.
| 24 |
Kailen Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:27:14pm |
re: #8 Kailen
I bet Eric Harris believed in evolution too, when he wasn't too busy playing Doom.
Lo and behold, according to Wikipedia:
On the day of the massacre, Harris wore a white T-shirt with the words "NATURAL SELECTION" printed in black.
Welp, I'm sold. Darwin makes killers of us all.
| 25 |
Killgore Trout Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:27:29pm |
If Darwin wasn't right he wouldn't have been so delicious.
| 26 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:28:17pm |
re: #19 Teacake!
I sort of doubt anyone has figured out the urge for cannibalism. Perhaps jeff was into zombie movies too?
Cannibalism is the ultimate power.
| 27 |
jaunte Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:28:31pm |
re: #25 Killgore Trout
Try the Soylent Behe, it's irreducibly complex.
| 29 |
MJ Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:30:02pm |
Jeffery Dahmer lived in Wisconsin.
Jeffery Dahmer was a cannibal.
Therefore, all people who live in Wisconsin are cannibals.
| 30 |
Kailen Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:30:06pm |
re: #26 MandyManners
Cannibalism is the ultimate power.
You may have a point there. Perhaps if we created a weekly ritual of consuming the flesh and blood of an all-powerful deity in human form...
Wait, crud, it's been done.
| 31 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:30:15pm |
re: #2 Sharmuta
Just when you thought their arguments couldn't get less intellectually honest, they stoop to a new low. Unreal.
Oh, they're not finished yet. Hold on to your hat.
| 32 |
Teacake! Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:30:51pm |
Still Mandy, that doesn't really explain something so grotesque. Power is subjective depending on the ego, I think. But I don't think cannibalism is subjective. You really have to be sick sick sick. deserving of repulsion? Actually, its not a subject I want to ponder too much.
| 33 |
Spiny Norman Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:31:06pm |
Creationists on the Texas State Board of Education are no longer satisfied with simply preaching that Darwin’s theories lead to atheism and Nazism and killing people; the latest email making the rounds in Texas blames the theory of evolution for cannibalism: ‘Jeffrey Dahmer Believed in Evolution’.
Darwin turned evolved me into a newt!
| 34 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:31:10pm |
re: #29 MJ
Jeffery Dahmer lived in Wisconsin.
Jeffery Dahmer was a cannibal.
Therefore, all people who live in Wisconsin are cannibals.
My girlfriend (2 girlfriend ago) was from Wisconsin and she never ate... er, never mind.
| 35 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:31:32pm |
Slightly related.
I think I saw in the snack food department of BJ's, a box labeled like the old Operation game, with food inside shaped like various organs.
Did some marketing "genius" think this would make future doctors?
I think it is more likely to make future Jeffery Dahmers.
| 37 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:32:33pm |
re: #33 Spiny Norman
Darwin
turnedevolved me into a newt!
So you turned into a former Speaker of the House? :)
| 39 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:32:52pm |
re: #35 Kosh's Shadow
Slightly related.
I think I saw in the snack food department of BJ's, a box labeled like the old Operation game, with food inside shaped like various organs.
Did some marketing "genius" think this would make future doctors?
I think it is more likely to make future Jeffery Dahmers.
Slightly off topic... (I'm afraid to ask) what is BJ's?
| 40 |
gman Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:33:07pm |
“If a person doesn’t think that there is a God to be accountable to, then what’s the point of trying to modify your behavior to keep it within acceptable ranges?
wtf?
uh, survival, prison, maintaining friendships, etc. just for starters
| 41 |
ParanoidPyro Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:33:09pm |
Well in a way it fits. I mean, if you get eaten, then you were not strong enough to survive and adapt. Maybe humans can evolve a horrible taste like trees in Africa.
| 42 |
NJDhockeyfan Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:33:17pm |
re: #29 MJ
Jeffery Dahmer lived in Wisconsin.
Jeffery Dahmer was a cannibal.
Therefore, all people who live in Wisconsin are cannibals.
or all cannibals live in Wisconsin. ;)
| 44 |
MJ Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:34:20pm |
re: #34 Walter L. Newton
My girlfriend (2 girlfriend ago) was from Wisconsin and she never ate... er, never mind.
Cheese curds?
| 45 |
Spiny Norman Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:34:41pm |
re: #37 Dark_Falcon
re: #33 Spiny NormanDarwinturnedevolved me into a newt!So you turned into a former Speaker of the House? :)
I got better.
| 46 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:35:03pm |
re: #39 Walter L. Newton
Slightly off topic... (I'm afraid to ask) what is BJ's?
Warehouse store, like Sam's Club or Costco
| 47 |
Teacake! Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:35:09pm |
From what I've heard on George Noory, the intelligent design thing is that we came from mad scientist aliens, and that seems to be what creationists believe these days? I'm just too confused. Too many theories. No one will ever really know for sure.
| 48 |
Spiny Norman Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:35:27pm |
re: #41 ParanoidPyro
Well in a way it fits. I mean, if you get eaten, then you were not strong enough to survive and adapt. Maybe humans can evolve a horrible taste like trees in Africa.
Or Argentine ants.
| 49 |
MJ Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:35:48pm |
| 50 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:36:33pm |
| 51 |
Ringo the Gringo Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:37:16pm |
I have high cholesterol, and I believe in evolution.
Hmmm....perhaps I can keep eating all that stinky French cheese if I just drop the Darwin.
| 52 |
screaming_eagle Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:37:26pm |
re: #47 Teacake!
From what I've heard on George Noory, the intelligent design thing is that we came from mad scientist aliens, and that seems to be what creationists believe these days? I'm just too confused. Too many theories. No one will ever really know for sure.
Well that settles it. George Noory know the REAL truth.
Nothing left to discuss here folks.
/
| 53 |
Spiny Norman Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:37:37pm |
| 54 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:37:57pm |
re: #39 Walter L. Newton
Slightly off topic... (I'm afraid to ask) what is BJ's?
WholeSale WhareHouse. You can become a member for like $35 a year and go in and buy things like a 5 gallon jug of Mayonaisse for $3.
| 55 |
shill Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:38:12pm |
Teacake, we do know evolution, for sure. Evolution is simply the idea that biological change occurs... that life today is different than it was yesterday and will be different tomorrow. How that change is occurring is open for debate, but the fact that we change, that new lifeform traits come about, is easy to prove.
It could be that God meant to do it that way, of course. I don't see why any Christian would want their faith to deny banal observations about the universe. Of course, most Christians do not want that.
| 57 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:38:45pm |
| 58 |
NJDhockeyfan Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:38:55pm |
| 59 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:38:57pm |
re: #54 sattv4u2
WholeSale WhareHouse. You can become a member for like $35 a year and go in and buy things like a 5 gallon jug of Mayonaisse for $3.
I guess Dahmer shopped there for his mayo?
| 60 |
itellu3times Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:39:23pm |
Evolution produced these fava beans and this nice chianti.
| 61 |
Wishing Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:39:37pm |
| 62 |
lostlakehiker Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:39:43pm |
Can you get any stupider? I betcha Dahmer also believed that Red Light means Stop, Green Light means Go.
But Dahmer didn't really believe in evolution. He got himself tucked away in jail, far from women. In Wisconsin jail, all too near big men with a bad attitude toward frail types who struck even them as gross, and guards who were really really engrossed in counting the cracks in the floor tiles, to the exclusion of noticing funny noises out of that room back there.
In Wisconsin, they have their own kind of death penalty. Hey, You! Out of the gene pool!
| 63 |
Ringo the Gringo Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:39:47pm |
Actually I think you can attribute Jeffrey Dahmers's demise to Darwin's survival of the fittest.
| 64 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:40:44pm |
re: #60 itellu3times
Evolution produced these fava beans and this nice chianti.
Good Evening, Dr. Lector.
| 65 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:41:09pm |
re: #54 sattv4u2
WholeSale WhareHouse. You can become a member for like $35 a year and go in and buy things like a 5 gallon jug of Mayonaisse for $3.
Or, for dog owners, a 10lb bag of rawhide for $10. With seven dogs, a pet store would be very expensive.
Actually, their TV prices were equal to Amazon's over Christmas; got a new TV there.
| 66 |
Teacake! Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:41:59pm |
shill - just meant that THE very first life form where it all began is impossible to know, but of course everything evolves and changes.
| 67 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:42:01pm |
re: #62 lostlakehiker
The guard saw no reason to care. Dahmer was a problem that the other inmates were solving.
| 68 |
itellu3times Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:42:20pm |
re: #47 Teacake!
From what I've heard on George Noory, the intelligent design thing is that we came from mad scientist aliens, and that seems to be what creationists believe these days? I'm just too confused. Too many theories. No one will ever really know for sure.
There are some really great science fiction books by David Brin, "Startide Rising" and "The Uplift War", and a few others set in the same universe, in which the setting is that there is intelligent life all over, but they were all "uplifted" by previous races, back to "The Progenitors". And here are these Earthlings, "wolflings", who don't have an obvious sponsor, who actually believe that they evolved - and nobody in the galaxy quite believes it. Excellent books, but, y'know .... FICTION!
| 70 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:42:33pm |
| 71 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:43:20pm |
I like to have balance in my diet, so whenever I contemplate eating someones flesh, I make sure that person has CUALIFLOWER ear for my veggie content!
| 72 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:45:12pm |
This brings a whole new meaning to the (fake) Chinese dish
Sum Yung Gai
| 73 |
ParanoidPyro Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:45:35pm |
re: #69 Teacake!
Poor Darwin, he's the new Jew.
There's so much wrong in that sentence I don't even know where to begin.
| 74 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:45:38pm |
re: #72 Kosh's Shadow
This brings a whole new meaning to the (fake) Chinese dish
Sum Yung Gai
or Wun Hung Lo
| 76 |
iraqnophobic Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:47:05pm |
There is no news here, only libel of those who are Aetheist or those of Faith.
If that statement sounded vacuous, try reading a good apologetic. C.S. Lewis's Mere Christianity is a great place to start. You will never again think the same way about things.
Creation and evolution aren't mutually exclusive.
| 77 |
gman Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:47:05pm |
From now on, I'm not going to look at evolution threads the same way.
You're either pro- cannibal or not
| 78 |
Teacake! Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:47:30pm |
ParanoidPyro - huh? Meaning, being blamed for things that have nothing to do with him.
| 79 |
Randall Gross Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:47:35pm |
I am glad you are keeping a nationwide spotlight on this Charles, it's a way to keep the DI pressure groups from having undue leverage.
| 81 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:48:12pm |
re: #75 Teacake!
Kosh, that was really bad!
Well, it is almost 1 AM here, so I used a joke from the gay Chinese restaurant.
That wasn't original, but we wrote a lot of others, for a place that is a cultural revolution in Chinese cuisine. The only one I remember now is
Long March Sole
| 83 |
screaming_eagle Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:49:40pm |
re: #77 gman
From now on, I'm not going to look at evolution threads the same way.
You're either pro- cannibal or not
You didn't realize it was that simple did you.
Maybe there's a PETA connection as well eh?
| 84 |
Kailen Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:49:56pm |
To be blunt:
Transubstantiation: Belief by some sects of Christianity that, during communion, the wafers and wine physically become the body and blood of Christ, not just a representation.
Now, I'm not going to say that everyone who believes in Transubstantiation believes in Creationism/Intelligent Design, and vice versa, but there's got to be a pretty fair amount of overlap there.
And they want to try to bring up the "cannibal" argument to us? Really?
| 86 |
Steve Rogers Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:50:36pm |
Four questions that will instantly silence any "creationist" or "intelligent design" proponent:
1. If a scientist who believed in "intelligent design" were given 10 million dollars grant money, exactly what scientific experiment or study would he do in order to advance the "intelligent design" hypothesis?
2. A fundamental aspect of science is that theories can be falsified, so exactly how can "intelligent design" be falsified?
3. Could naturally evolved, mortal and fallable aliens from another dimension be the "intelligence" that "designed" us and our universe inside their laboratory?
4. If life is so complex that it absolutely requires a designer, then by definition the designer must be vastly more complex...so, who designed the designer?
| 87 |
Teacake! Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:50:54pm |
Gay Chinese restaurant? LOL
I don't get the long march sole.
| 88 |
gman Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:51:40pm |
re: #83 screaming_eagle
You didn't realize it was that simple did you.
Maybe there's a PETA connection as well eh?
Now that you mention PETA. Wouldn't they be pro- cannibalism.
The less pesky humans the better for them.
| 89 |
lifeofthemind Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:52:12pm |
Wow, Maddog returned to wave his sock puppet and taunt Charles. Who knew?
Now I must turn in before anyone thinks I'd post on an ID thread.
Runs away.
| 90 |
MJ Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:52:21pm |
re: #58 NJDhockeyfan
What are they putting in the cheese up there?
Ed Gein was locked up in Mendota Mental Health here in Madison which might explain the over-abundance of crazy Leftists in this town.
Gein jokes are still popular in these parts:
Q. Why did they keep the heat on in Ed Gein's house?
A. So the furniture wouldn't get goose bumps.
A man walks into a bar in Plainfield and orders a "Geiner".
Bartender gives him a beer with all body, no head.
| 91 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:52:51pm |
re: #86 Steve Rogers
Four questions that will instantly silence any "creationist" or "intelligent design" proponent:
1. If a scientist who believed in "intelligent design" were given 10 million dollars grant money, exactly what scientific experiment or study would he do in order to advance the "intelligent design" hypothesis?
2. A fundamental aspect of science is that theories can be falsified, so exactly how can "intelligent design" be falsified?
3. Could naturally evolved, mortal and fallable aliens from another dimension be the "intelligence" that "designed" us and our universe inside their laboratory?
4. If life is so complex that it absolutely requires a designer, then by definition the designer must be vastly more complex...so, who designed the designer?
The answer to all your questions is... 6000 years. Next.
/
| 92 |
avanti Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:53:47pm |
re: #19 Teacake!
I sort of doubt anyone has figured out the urge for cannibalism. Perhaps jeff was into zombie movies too?
Yea, I don't get it, people taste just like chicken, but take a bigger pot to prepare.
| 93 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:54:11pm |
re: #88 gman
Now that you mention PETA. Wouldn't they be pro- cannibalism.
The less pesky humans the better for them.
For every child, 2 years of age or younger, acquired by the United States Department of Agriculture Food and Nutrition Service, the parent of the child will receive either a cash payment of 2000 dollars or 3000 dollars will be deposited in a medical savings plan.
HB.1729 is designed to increase the income level of the family or single parent, which will help them to become a self-sustainable member of society, reduce our burden of over-population and break the cycle of crime that is prevalent among our low-income citizens.
This will also enable more parents to enter the job market, becoming freed from dependency on multiple government programs.
The act will not rely on taxpayers money. It will pay for itself from the sales of the food products created from the children enrolled in the program. The low cost of the food product will also benefit all Americans, as it can be used as a substitute for higher priced meats.
| 94 |
Teacake! Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:54:41pm |
The answer to all your questions is... 6000 years. Next.
/
I'm sort of afraid that in less than 100 years humans will be at least have computerized by purposeful evolution. Sort of don't want to be around for that.
| 95 |
ParanoidPyro Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:55:10pm |
Is cannibalism wrong if the person died of natural causes?
| 96 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:55:34pm |
| 97 |
Wishing Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:56:00pm |
| 98 |
screaming_eagle Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:56:11pm |
re: #88 gman
Now that you mention PETA. Wouldn't they be pro- cannibalism.
The less pesky humans the better for them.
Well they were talking about replacing cows milk in ice cream with womens breast milk, so I would think anything that is pro-polar bear is gotta be good.
| 100 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:56:51pm |
re: #85 Iron Fist
You are aware that there was real cannibalism in China during the Cultural Revolution, aren't you? That is not exactly a tasteful joke...
Yes, but we long ago left the tasteful joke zone behind.
Anyone remember the move "A Boy and His Dog"?
based on a Harlan Ellison novella, and starring a young Don Johnson, who, I understand, is responsible for making it currently unavailable.
| 101 |
screaming_eagle Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:57:52pm |
re: #93 Walter L. Newton
How much are teen-agers worth?
| 102 |
Teacake! Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:58:09pm |
Anyone remember the move "A Boy and His Dog"?
Saw it when it came out and I don't remember anything about it. LOL
| 103 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:58:17pm |
re: #87 Teacake!
Gay Chinese restaurant? LOL
I don't get the long march sole.
The Long March was part of Mao's victory; people were starving along it, and, of course, they walk on their soles. And sole is a kind of fish.
| 106 |
esch Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:58:29pm |
re: #100 Kosh's Shadow
Great movie. Most people don't get the end, I have to explain it to them.
Hardcore.
| 107 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:58:36pm |
re: #99 Iron Fist
Sponsored by Barney Frank? It's hard to tell if that's a joke, or just the logical conclusion of the anti-Human/pro-Abortion/pro-Big Government alliance.
It's a few paragraph from a new full-length play I have been working on. Yes it's political satire and based on Jonathan Swifts "A Modest Proposal."
| 108 |
Teacake! Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:59:05pm |
Vstarring a young Don Johnson, who, I understand, is responsible for making it currently unavailable.
I also heard the Sly Stallone started in porn, and made those unavailable. LOL Thank goodness.
| 109 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:59:19pm |
re: #101 screaming_eagle
How much are teen-agers worth?
We will only take children two years or younger.
NEXT QUESTION? (I have all the answers)
| 110 |
solomonpanting Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:59:33pm |
re: #100 Kosh's Shadow
I saw that thirty something years ago and thought it had its moments. What's the story behind Don Johnson? Is he embarrassed?
| 111 |
Bob Dillon Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:59:34pm |
| 112 |
garycooper Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:59:34pm |
I always thought it was Dahmer's being gay, that made him eat human flesh. Oh, well.
Speaking of cannibalism, I re-watched the incredible Rick Burns documentary about the Donner Party the other day. It's a horrifying tale in many ways, not the least of which is the cannibalism that allowed about half of the snowbound pioneers to survive the winter. There are lots of other fascinating tidbits of human nature and experience along the trail to California, that make the doc a much more interesting work, especially if you're interested in history.
| 113 |
MJ Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:59:42pm |
re: #95 ParanoidPyro
Is cannibalism wrong if the person died of natural causes?
The Donner Party:
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 114 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:59:47pm |
re: #101 screaming_eagle
How much are teen-agers worth?
/how much do they weigh, what's their BMI, corn or grass fed?
| 115 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:59:48pm |
Man (Voice over)
Thank you. Will families who enroll their children in the program be eligible to purchase the food product and if your answer is “yes,” how will you prevent the family from eating their own children?
Amy
That’s a very good question. The family or single parent will be issued a identification card that has a location code and the food product will also be tag with a code. Our distribution plan will enable us to make sure that the food product is not sold with in the same location as it’s source. And you will be able to use the ID card to compare your home location to the processing location of the product.
This system will be very handy when traveling.
| 116 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:59:49pm |
| 117 |
esch Mon, Feb 2, 2009 9:59:51pm |
| 118 |
screaming_eagle Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:00:09pm |
re: #109 Walter L. Newton
Is it wrong to eat your own offspring?
| 119 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:00:16pm |
re: #102 Teacake!
Saw it when it came out and I don't remember anything about it. LOL
You must have been in the same state many of us were.
It takes place in a post-apocalyptic world. Don Johnson has a telepathic dog; he finds food for the dog, and the dog helps him find women.
Some people live underground, and then need new genetic material. A woman lures him underground, to find it isn't exactly a nice place.
He escapes with the woman, and his dog needs food.
SPOILER
It doesn't exactly say what happens, but the dog says the woman didn't exactly have good taste.
| 121 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:00:27pm |
re: #118 screaming_eagle
Is it wrong to eat your own offspring?
Man (Voice over)
Thank you. Will families who enroll their children in the program be eligible to purchase the food product and if your answer is “yes,” how will you prevent the family from eating their own children?
Amy
That’s a very good question. The family or single parent will be issued a identification card that has a location code and the food product will also be tag with a code. Our distribution plan will enable us to make sure that the food product is not sold with in the same location as it’s source. And you will be able to use the ID card to compare your home location to the processing location of the product.
This system will be very handy when traveling.
| 122 |
avanti Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:00:37pm |
Maddog44 gets the trap door downthread too, bad form to mess with Charles.
| 123 |
Dustyvet Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:00:39pm |
re: #103 Kosh's Shadow
The Long March was part of Mao's victory; people were starving along it, and, of course, they walk on their soles. And sole is a kind of fish.
Moo Shoe Pork..:)
| 124 |
screaming_eagle Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:01:11pm |
re: #114 Killian Bundy
/how much do they weigh, what's their BMI, corn or grass fed?
140 lbs , lean , twinkes
| 126 |
SteveC Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:01:33pm |
re: #47 Teacake!
From what I've heard on George Noory, the intelligent design thing is that we came from mad scientist aliens, and that seems to be what creationists believe these days? I'm just too confused. Too many theories. No one will ever really know for sure.
Mad scientist aliens? No way. You gotta have a lab coat, a pocket protector, and unruly hair to be a mad scientist. And a lot of these aliens don't even have hair!
| 127 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:02:06pm |
re: #100 Kosh's Shadow
Anyone remember the move "A Boy and His Dog"?
based on a Harlan Ellison novella, and starring a young Don Johnson, who, I understand, is responsible for making it currently unavailable.
Yup, and in trying to look for a copy I've never found one, though I did not know Mr. Johnson was the one responsible for hiding it.
It was an interesting movie that took a very critical look (though the campy humor) at American society (or at least how American society was perceived by those in the counter culture movement.)
| 128 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:02:07pm |
Woman (Voice over)
Will the food product be marketed to other countries?
Amy
Currently the plan is to limit our distribution to the United States, but we have had some fact finding talks with the representatives of certain countries.
I can tell you, off the record, that the French Association of Culinary Professionals has shown an quite an interest in our project.
| 129 |
Teacake! Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:02:10pm |
Sort of remember now. lol Yeah, I think I remember not liking the end.
| 130 |
gman Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:02:30pm |
re: #86 Steve Rogers
Four questions that will instantly silence any "creationist" or "intelligent design" proponent:
1. If a scientist who believed in "intelligent design" were given 10 million dollars grant money, exactly what scientific experiment or study would he do in order to advance the "intelligent design" hypothesis?
2. A fundamental aspect of science is that theories can be falsified, so exactly how can "intelligent design" be falsified?
3. Could naturally evolved, mortal and fallable aliens from another dimension be the "intelligence" that "designed" us and our universe inside their laboratory?
4. If life is so complex that it absolutely requires a designer, then by definition the designer must be vastly more complex...so, who designed the designer?
Check this out
The Templeton Prize
| 131 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:04:06pm |
| 132 |
funky chicken Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:04:29pm |
re: #8 Kailen
I bet Eric Harris believed in evolution too, when he wasn't too busy playing Doom.
But wait, what about the 9/11 hijackers? Doesn't radical Islam say "no" to evolution as well? If we were as depraved and as desperate as the creationists, we could try to link terrorism to "Intelligent Design".
But we know that correlation is not causation.
Hey, I think the Harris family went to church. Therefore all people who go to church are likely to become mass murderers.
Yay! fun game!
/these people are truly deranged. unfortunately they hurt the GOP a lot more than the truly deranged lefties hurt the dems because the MSM covers up the lefty dirt. examples: William Ayers, Bernardine Dohrn, Michael Pfleger
| 133 |
esch Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:04:38pm |
re: #68 itellu3times
There are some really great science fiction books by David Brin, "Startide Rising" and "The Uplift War", and a few others set in the same universe, in which the setting is that there is intelligent life all over, but they were all "uplifted" by previous races, back to "The Progenitors". And here are these Earthlings, "wolflings", who don't have an obvious sponsor, who actually believe that they evolved - and nobody in the galaxy quite believes it. Excellent books, but, y'know .... FICTION!
WHEN that is done to film, it'll be absolutely fantastic. It'll probably be a while, though, seeing as how he got burned by 'The Postman'
Sundiver is tailor-made as a self-contained action flick.
| 134 |
screaming_eagle Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:04:53pm |
re: #128 Walter L. Newton
Will there be low-fat and lactose-free selections?
| 135 |
Teacake! Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:05:04pm |
And a lot of these aliens don't even have hair!
LOL But they have an answer for all that! The grays are just the worker bees and no one on earth really has seen the real other beings. Personally, I don't trust the grays or their so called masters from some unknown planet or galaxy. I get the feeling they are just trying to rewrite the Bible, in a strange from of not believing in God.
| 136 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:05:07pm |
Woman (Voice over)
Is there any precedent for this bill?
Amy
There are many factors we examined that brought us to this solution. Organ harvesting has become as normal as buying a replacement part for your car. Asian countries have been inserting genes from the human liver into rice for years. This enables the rice to digest pesticides and industrial chemicals. We use human cells to grow new tissue and genetic engineering has become commonplace.
Society has been moving toward being autophagous for more than half a century. The act is simply a natural evolution of scientific advancement and progressive social responsibility.
And consider this anecdote… biologist assert that swallowing your own saliva is a form of consuming a human product.
Any more questions?
| 138 |
Kosh's Shadow Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:05:16pm |
re: #123 Dustyvet
Moo Shoe Pork..:)
[Link: www.wepsi.com...]
Well, this place has Cowboy Leg, Big Bowl Four Treasure Frog, and many others. Don't blame if you wake everyone laughing.
And with that, I say goodnight lizards.
(...goodnight lizards...)
| 139 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:06:14pm |
Man (Voice over)
Do you have any statistics on how this bill will work toward eliminating the unethical treatment of animals raised for food?
Amy
A Senior Research Fellow at the FDA has concluded that the average adult human eats a hundred animals a year. The latest figures from the Department of Health and Human Services shows a yearly increase of 4,558,814 new births. Fifteen percent of this new population is born into families who cannot sustain this economic burden without Federal or State assistance.
If these families or single parents took full advantage of our program, we would be able to process 683,820 units a year… which would save the equivalent in animals raised for food.
And as an added benefit, there is no doubt in my mind that the availability of a human food product would convince some people to consider a vegetarian diet.
| 141 |
Neo Con since 9-11 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:07:14pm |
So has anyone broken out the fava beans and a nice bottle of Cianti on this thread yet?
| 142 |
Ojoe Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:07:16pm |
Time for this again:
Pope says evolution and Catholicism are compatible.
As MSNBC reported, Pope Benedict has referred to the debate between creationists and supporters of evolutionary theory as an "absurdity":
"They are presented as alternatives that exclude each other," the pope said. "This clash is an absurdity because on one hand there is much scientific proof in favor of evolution, which appears as a reality that we must see and which enriches our understanding of life and being as such."
On the other hand, there are certain questions that evolutionary theory can never answer: "Above all it does not answer the great philosophical question, 'Where does everything come from?'" Christians, thus, can learn truth from science, but scientists must learn to accept the limits of their own work. No scientific investigation can ever prove that God does not exist, or that He did not create the world, or even that man is only the sum of his physical parts.
| 144 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:07:46pm |
re: #140 Iron Fist
Reverand "God Damn America" Wright. But leftwing "Reverands" of radical anti-American, anti-White Racist Churches are A-OK in the eyes of the Media.
I was wondering how long it was going to take you to understand how this all shakes out. You've seen the light.
/
| 147 |
realwest Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:08:35pm |
re: #89 lifeofthemind
"Maddog returned to wave his sock puppet" Uh, what?!?
| 150 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:10:04pm |
| 151 |
Dustyvet Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:10:10pm |
re: #147 realwest
"Maddog returned to wave his sock puppet" Uh, what?!?
Why don’t sock puppets ever get anything done?
They always have a thumb up their a$$!
| 152 |
iraqnophobic Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:10:23pm |
re: #55 shill
Teacake, we do know evolution, for sure. Evolution is simply the idea that biological change occurs... that life today is different than it was yesterday and will be different tomorrow. How that change is occurring is open for debate, but the fact that we change, that new lifeform traits come about, is easy to prove.
It could be that God meant to do it that way, of course. I don't see why any Christian would want their faith to deny banal observations about the universe. Of course, most Christians do not want that.
If I'm reading this correctly (it's late on the East Coast and we both write with many negatives!): you are saying that many Christians indeed want to deny empirical evidence of evolution. I've gotta disagree with you here. Certainly there is a VERY vocal minority of Christians that denies evolution, but for the majority it is as accepted as is the fact that that the Earth revolves about the Sun. God gave Man a brain for a reason: to use it.
There is supporting evidence for Man to make decisions on evolution just as there is supporting and cohesive evidence (historic, archeological, eyewitness, etc) for a man to make his decision on the accuracy of the Bible and the existence of Jesus Christ.
| 154 |
realwest Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:10:26pm |
I wonder if the surviving members of the Donner Party were evolutionists, too ( I know, bad analogy but still........!?!)?
| 155 |
Teacake! Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:10:53pm |
When my mom sent me and my sister to bed without dinner for being bad, I guess, (we didn't like her cooking) she and I would tear out pages in magazines of food pix and eat those! LOL Not very tasty.
| 156 |
esch Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:10:55pm |
re: #154 realwest
I wonder if the surviving members of the Donner Party were evolutionists, too ( I know, bad analogy but still........!?!)?
Survival of the fattest?
| 157 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:11:12pm |
re: #150 Dark_Falcon
Have you lost you mind?
Edward
How was the response from the focus group?
Amy
Wonderful… PETA was all over it.
Edward
I was just told that we have full support from the Democrats in the House.
Amy
What about the Republicans?
Edward
I was expecting more bipartisan support… we have some Republicans in our pocket… But we’re OK… the Democrats still hold the majority.
Amy
That’s all we need to take the House. It’s the Senate I’m worried about. It’s a 50-50 dead heat right now.
Edward
Don’t worry about that. I think I can put a little pressure on some Republicans.
| 158 |
pink freud Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:12:01pm |
re: #147 realwest
"Maddog returned to wave his sock puppet" Uh, what?!?
Popped back in on the bottom of the OReilly thread after he'd been banned, with a sockpupper named maddogg44 and told Charles to go ahead and ban that one also.
| 159 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:12:01pm |
| 160 |
Neutral President Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:12:05pm |
I'm sure Dahmer believed in gravity too. Does that mean that Newton and Einstein lead to mass murder and cannibalism as well?
| 161 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:13:03pm |
| 162 |
realwest Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:13:43pm |
re: #149 Iron Fist Well i know that Maddogg was banned - and from what I've read, justifiably so - or blocked, don't know which cause all of his comments are still up - so I assumed he'd had a sock puppet and came back - which wouldn't make any sense when you consider that Maddogg said "enough, I quit LGF, goodbye all".
| 163 |
esch Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:13:45pm |
re: #160 ArchangelMichael
I'm sure Dahmer believed in gravity too. Does that mean that Newton and Einstein lead to mass murder and cannibalism as well?
Makes me think of a political parody:
"Rahm and Dahmer"
/obvious disclaimer
| 164 |
SteveC Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:13:51pm |
re: #158 pink freud
Popped back in on the bottom of the OReilly thread after he'd been banned, with a sockpupper named maddogg44 and told Charles to go ahead and ban that one also.
Let me guess... Charles carried out his duties as instructed? :)
| 167 |
funky chicken Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:15:43pm |
re: #142 Ojoe
I'm looking at Catholic secondary education for my kids. There are a couple of great Christian schools around, and I love everything about the schools...except for the fact that they teach a soft form of intelligent design at best, or outright loony creationist bilge at worst. Catholic schools offer strong academics across the board...
I left the RC church because I disagree with their theology, but at least they aren't anti-science.
| 168 |
Bob Dillon Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:15:45pm |
re: #160 ArchangelMichael
I'm sure Dahmer believed in gravity too. Does that mean that Newton and Einstein lead to mass murder and cannibalism as well?
Laws of nature are what is. Your question does not compute.
| 169 |
realwest Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:16:20pm |
re: #158 pink freud
WHAT?! Frankly I sorta like him until he went off the rails there and said goodbye and Charles said ok. Why on earth would he then come back as a "cleverly disguised" sock puppet?
Some folks take things a tad too seriously out here, you know?
| 170 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:16:33pm |
re: #161 Dark_Falcon
Funny, I know you're kidding.
Oh ok. I asked in all honesty because that script could be construed as very offensive to some people, especially with out some of the other set up that is in the story.
Just clips and pastes from that scene could be taken the wrong way. That's why I explained the source at the top of my posting of these clips.
The script is far from completed, but as every day goes by, Obama himself is giving me ideas for the direction my story should take.
| 172 |
Teacake! Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:16:51pm |
I might get yelled at this for this one, and then I'm off to bed. But it seems to me in a way that having a blood transfusion is a form of cannibalism without actually eating.
Nite!
| 173 |
MandyManners Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:17:29pm |
I'm gonna' hafta' play some Ratatouille to get this sick shit outta' my head before I try to sleep. Later, Lizards.
| 174 |
SteveC Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:17:32pm |
re: #160 ArchangelMichael
I'm sure Dahmer believed in gravity too. Does that mean that Newton and Einstein lead to mass murder and cannibalism as well?
No, we blame those on George W. Bush!
/Still?
| 175 |
screaming_eagle Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:17:50pm |
re: #160 ArchangelMichael
I'm sure Dahmer believed in gravity too. Does that mean that Newton and Einstein lead to mass murder and cannibalism as well?
YES
| 178 |
realwest Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:19:04pm |
re: #156 esch
LOL! No, but survival, period.
I just can't beleive that these idjits are using Jeffrey Dahlmer that way. They are truly fucking desperate and despicable.
| 179 |
MJ Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:19:10pm |
re: #176 EEprom
You should just rename this site to:
All Evolution, All The Time.
Now why would you say something stupid like that?
| 180 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:19:19pm |
re: #176 EEprom
You should just rename this site to:
All Evolution, All The Time.
Bye bye... (do they think they are actually going to get away with it?)
| 181 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:20:02pm |
re: #152 iraqnophobic
Certainly there is a VERY vocal minority of Christians that denies evolution, but for the majority it is as accepted as is the fact that that the Earth revolves about the Sun.
The famous Gallup polls on these subjects do not support your statement.
| 182 |
Neutral President Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:20:37pm |
re: #168 Bobibutu
Laws of nature are what is. Your question does not compute.
I really didn't think a /sarc tag was required for a silly question like that, honestly.
To use creationist lingo gravity is "just a theory" too so if they want to remain logically consistent...
| 183 |
Ojoe Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:20:49pm |
re: #167 funky chicken
Check out the Salesians. I went to a Salesian high school (Don Bosco Tech). It was great.
| 184 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:21:04pm |
re: #177 Iron Fist
I'm sure Obama is plenty good fuel for some satire. He's also damn good fuel for nightmares. I haven't had a good night's sleep since the motherfucker was elected.
Iron, don't do that to yourself. I really mean that. No matter what, you can't beat yourself up over any of this.
I mean, I don't know how to say it, but you're more important to anyone. If you don't take care of yourself FIRST, you'll never be any help to anyone else.
| 185 |
esch Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:21:18pm |
re: #177 Iron Fist
I'm sure Obama is plenty good fuel for some satire. He's also damn good fuel for nightmares. I haven't had a good night's sleep since the motherfucker was elected.
I told my liberal doctor my stress level was at a high peak since 11/5 and it was really increasing my symptoms (all true). He chuckled and gave me more painkillers.
There's a moral about irony in here somewhere...
| 186 |
realwest Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:21:36pm |
re: #176 EEprom
Hmmm:
Karma: -1
Registered since: Jun 12, 2007 at 12:40 pm
(Logged in)No. of comments posted: 16
No. of links posted: 0
It wasn't nice "knowing" you but I'll give you credit for being a really long time sleeper dumbass.
| 188 |
solomonpanting Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:22:12pm |
| 189 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:22:13pm |
re: #187 Iron Fist
Another thing I don't get. Who the hell registers alternics, and keeps them dormant for years only to waste them and use them up in a fit of pique (or hard drinking. That I can comprehend)?
Who... well... EEprom does!
| 190 |
Kailen Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:22:13pm |
re: #181 freetoken
The famous Gallup polls on these subjects do not support your statement.
Those polls make me very sad. I really want to believe such blind ignorance would be a small minority, 5-10% at best, not nearly half the population.
| 191 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:23:05pm |
re: #176 EEprom
You should just rename this site to:
All Evolution, All The Time.
That Dale Carnegie 'How To Win Freinds and Influence People" course didn't work out so well for you, huh
| 192 |
screaming_eagle Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:23:08pm |
re: #185 esch
I told my liberal doctor my stress level was at a high peak since 11/5 and it was really increasing my symptoms (all true). He chuckled and gave me more painkillers.
There's a moral about irony in here somewhere...
Damn I never thought of that. I just went out and bought more ammo. Guess I need to re-think that.
| 193 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:23:15pm |
| 194 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:23:30pm |
re: #191 sattv4u2
That Dale Carnegie 'How To Win Freinds and Influence People" course didn't work out so well for you, huh
Wow, your testy tonight.
:)
| 195 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:24:07pm |
| 196 |
MJ Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:24:11pm |
re: #187 Iron Fist
Another thing I don't get. Who the hell registers alternics, and keeps them dormant for years only to waste them and use them up in a fit of pique (or hard drinking. That I can comprehend)?
Do these people keep a record of their unused passwords/alternics?
I can barely remember my password and I've had the same one since LGF started to use them.
| 198 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:24:18pm |
re: #194 Walter L. Newton
Wow, your testy tonight.
:)
6 total hours sleep in the last 54 hours does that to me!
| 199 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:24:26pm |
re: #176 EEprom
You should just rename this site to:
All Evolution, All The Time.
Do I have a sighting?
/green smoke.
//We have another chip to flash folks. . . . .
| 200 |
esch Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:24:29pm |
| 201 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:24:30pm |
re: #190 Kailen
Those polls make me very sad. I really want to believe such blind ignorance would be a small minority, 5-10% at best, not nearly half the population.
See especially this one:
Majority of Republicans Doubt Theory of Evolution
Scroll on down to the part the correlates church attendance to acceptance of evolution.
| 202 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:25:31pm |
re: #198 sattv4u2
6 total hours sleep in the last 54 hours does that to me!
Ok, that's not good for you at all. You would think that you sit around monitoring communication channels or something.
| 203 |
SteveC Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:25:49pm |
re: #177 Iron Fist
I'm sure Obama is plenty good fuel for some satire. He's also damn good fuel for nightmares. I haven't had a good night's sleep since the motherfucker was elected.
Newt Gingrich was on Bill Bennett's show this morning. Newt said that he had spoken to several Senators and they had told him that Obama "seemed very surprised" that Reid and Pelosi had disregarded the Republicans completely.
He can't be that dumb.... so I guess that means he's that wide eyed and innocent? Either option scares me!
/I don't think he's got it in him to be that devious.
| 204 |
zombie Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:26:05pm |
'Jeffrey Dahmer Believed in Evolution'
And Charles Manson believed in gravity.
| 205 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:26:32pm |
| 206 |
Neutral President Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:26:34pm |
re: #198 sattv4u2
6 total hours sleep in the last 54 hours does that to me!
Last time I did something like that I started hallucinating... go to sleep! (If you can now)
| 207 |
Walter L. Newton Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:26:52pm |
re: #204 zombie
And Charles Manson believed in gravity.
And I believe in sleep, night Lizards. And you too Zombie.
| 208 |
screaming_eagle Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:26:57pm |
| 209 |
solomonpanting Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:27:55pm |
re: #204 zombie
And Charles Manson believed in gravity.
I don't know about that. I hear he was so high he thought he'd never come back to Earth.
| 210 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:28:03pm |
re: #202 Walter L. Newton
Ok, that's not good for you at all. You would think that you sit around monitoring communication channels or something.
I just replayed the entire Super Bowl for the 4th time. This time for an NFL client in Dubai whose tape malfunctioned during the game and they're playing it out now on their "live" TV network
| 213 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:29:27pm |
re: #206 ArchangelMichael
Last time I did something like that I started hallucinating... go to sleep! (If you can now)
Can't. Got another 6 1/2 hours here at work. Right now I have an AT&T guy here changing out our phone slicks and a couple of guys from Dish Network replacing some HD/TV equipment
| 215 |
Kailen Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:29:33pm |
re: #201 freetoken
See especially this one:
Majority of Republicans Doubt Theory of Evolution
Scroll on down to the part the correlates church attendance to acceptance of evolution.
Well, that part was a given, really. I'm too tired to properly give my opinion of this. So, instead, I'm just going to shake my head sadly and go to sleep.
| 216 |
SteveC Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:29:47pm |
re: #212 Iron Fist
It seems rather pointless to me to just show up, piss all over the furniture, and then get banned yet again.
Those of us who have to clean the furniture appreciate that! :)
| 220 |
Neutral President Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:31:19pm |
re: #213 sattv4u2
Well as long as you don't start seeing nebulous floating black orbs like I did, or midgets in the corner that aren't really there you should be ok. But sleep as soon as that 6.5 hours is done.
| 221 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:31:19pm |
re: #214 EEprom
"Now why would you say something stupid like that?"
Because it has been the predominently daily discussion for quite some time. Hardy a day goes by without a Evolution thread.
That's because creationists have been up to a lot of stupid things lately and evolutionary science has yielded some evidence. Charles is just keeping up with the issue.
| 222 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:31:43pm |
re: #214 EEprom
"Now why would you say something stupid like that?"
Because it has been the predominently daily discussion for quite some time. Hardy a day goes by without a Evolution thread.
A thread a day hardly qualifies as ALL EVO ALL THE TIME. In case you hadn't noticed, this place is open 24/7. An EVO thread lasts maybe an hour or so,,
(You also have the option of NOT looking at them, you know!)
| 223 |
MJ Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:31:43pm |
re: #214 EEprom
"Now why would you say something stupid like that?"
Because it has been the predominently daily discussion for quite some time. Hardy a day goes by without a Evolution thread.
So? No one is forcing you to read this blog. I don't understand your logic. If you don't like it here, then why stay?
| 224 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:32:13pm |
re: #218 EEprom
"It wasn't nice "knowing" you but I'll give you credit for being a really long time sleeper dumbass."
This must have something to do with tolerance and free speech?
Aw, look! The troll is sarcastic, too.
GAZE
| 225 |
Sharmuta Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:32:37pm |
re: #214 EEprom
Please get your own blog so we can come tell you what topics you should post.
| 226 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:33:04pm |
re: #220 ArchangelMichael
Well as long as you don't start seeing nebulous floating black orbs like I did, or midgets in the corner that aren't really there you should be ok. But sleep as soon as that 6.5 hours is done.
I don't think the people on the roads I take to get home would appreciate that!
| 227 |
MJ Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:33:48pm |
re: #218 EEprom
"It wasn't nice "knowing" you but I'll give you credit for being a really long time sleeper dumbass."
This must have something to do with tolerance and free speech?
Do you always walk into someone else's house and insult the host?
| 228 |
BlueCanuck Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:34:36pm |
re: #218 EEprom
Tolerance yes, free speech? This is not a "public" forum that is engendered by free speech laws. Or as Mandy would say, Piss up a rope.
| 229 |
realwest Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:34:38pm |
re: #190 Kailen
I don't know any other way to put this, but I don't know who the hell Gallup polled, I really don't. I'm Christan, my Mom's Christian, my two former wives are Jews, all except two of my friends AND associates are Christians or Jews and NONE of them doubt the theory of Evolution - most believe God had a hand in it somewhere, but NONE OF THEM believe in the 6 days, 6000 -10000 year time line and frankly laugh like hell at the idea of it. I mean LITERALLY ALL OF MY CHRISTIAN AND JEWISH FRIENDS, RELATIVES AND "ASSOCIATES" BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION. So I have NO effin' idea who the hell Gallup polled ( and this encompasses New York City and North Carolina).
| 231 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:36:32pm |
re: #229 realwest
I don't know any other way to put this, but I don't know who the hell Gallup polled, I really don't. I'm Christan, my Mom's Christian, my two former wives are Jews, all except two of my friends AND associates are Christians or Jews and NONE of them doubt the theory of Evolution - most believe God had a hand in it somewhere, but NONE OF THEM believe in the 6 days, 6000 -10000 year time line and frankly laugh like hell at the idea of it. I mean LITERALLY ALL OF MY CHRISTIAN AND JEWISH FRIENDS, RELATIVES AND "ASSOCIATES" BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION. So I have NO effin' idea who the hell Gallup polled ( and this encompasses New York City and North Carolina).
I'll throw in Boston, most of Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Maine,Atlanta, Denver, San Diego, all places I've spent considerable time in.
| 232 |
iraqnophobic Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:38:13pm |
re: #181 freetoken
The famous Gallup polls on these subjects do not support your statement.
Ouch -- unlike the Earth, I travel in the wrong circles: I was drawing upon a limited sample group -- my friends and peers - for my broad statement, and stand corrected. I'll try to be more scientifiic, or at least show a scintilla of fact in my statements of fact. My friend Google is here.... when in doubt...
Thank you for the catch and for the link. I've hit you up with an uptick. :)
How sad indeed that so high a percentage of Americans lacks fundamental knowledge.
| 233 |
Erik The Red Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:38:35pm |
re: #214 EEprom
"Now why would you say something stupid like that?"
Because it has been the predominently daily discussion for quite some time. Hardy a day goes by without a Evolution thread.
Than don't read this blog than.
| 234 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:38:41pm |
re: #230 EEprom
"GAZE"
ohhhh noooo...not the GAZE?
I'll give you an upding on that one (you gave me a chuckle) but your logic and reasoning, as it is, is still faulty, IMHO
| 235 |
realwest Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:38:49pm |
re: #200 esch GAZE is in the LGF Dictionary and to save you time it means to ignore the troll, moby or jackass whomever you're talkng to, and is also an attempt to keep others from engaging the troll, moby or jackass.
| 236 |
pink freud Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:39:01pm |
re: #218 EEprom
"It wasn't nice "knowing" you but I'll give you credit for being a really long time sleeper dumbass."
This must have something to do with tolerance and free speech?
I think it has something to do with being rude.
| 237 |
itellu3times Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:39:25pm |
re: #214 EEprom
"Now why would you say something stupid like that?"
Because it has been the predominently daily discussion for quite some time. Hardy a day goes by without a Evolution thread.
Evolution never sleeps.
| 240 |
realwest Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:40:27pm |
re: #201 freetoken
Well, please see my #235. I don't know where or who Gallup does his polling, I really don't.
| 241 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:41:01pm |
Jeffery Dahmer had a mustache. You know who else had a mustache?
That's right, Michael Behe! The troof is out there!
/brane ded equivocation. am i doin it rite?
| 242 |
Erik The Red Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:41:10pm |
| 244 |
MJ Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:42:01pm |
re: #230 EEprom
"GAZE"
ohhhh noooo...not the GAZE?
OK, but you haven't contributed to the conversation or advanced one single argument for or against except voice your displeasure about the topic. Do you believe that the Dahmer argument is logical and if so, why?
| 245 |
SteveC Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:42:05pm |
re: #240 realwest
Well, please see my #235. I don't know where or who Gallup does his polling, I really don't.
I'm a member of The Harris Poll. 95% of the time they ask me what restaurants I eat at. Occasionally they ask who I plan to vote for. I guess one day they'll ask if I eat while voting, or vote while eating.
| 246 |
realwest Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:42:15pm |
re: #203 SteveC
"I don't think he's got it in him to be that devious."
I do. Remember, he comes - not from Hawaii regardless of the thermostat settings at the WH - but from Chicago. Devious is all part of the Chicago Way.
| 247 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:42:16pm |
| 248 |
screaming_eagle Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:42:36pm |
re: #241 Slumbering Behemoth
Jeffery Dahmer had a mustache. You know who else had a mustache?
That's right, Michael Behe! The troof is out there!
Rosie O'Donnel?
| 249 |
Erik The Red Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:43:33pm |
re: #247 Dark_Falcon
Morning Erik. How are things where you are?
Great atm. Very busy at work and the weather is fantastic.
| 250 |
Summer Seale Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:44:22pm |
I tried actually arguing theology with a born again on Christmas day at a party, and he wouldn't even discuss things sensibly with me. I kept trying to analyze Jesus's words on a rational level, and he kept telling me that it didn't matter, that he didn't know or understand, and that all that I had to do was believe that Jesus was the savior.
He wasn't even interested in what the words of the bible were. I was pretty stunned, I have to say. I kept telling him that even his Pastor would tell him otherwise, that his Pastor would have understood the differences in the texts of the bible, the differences of the books, etc... and he said that none of that mattered because all that mattered was that Jesus is my savior.
You can't even bring religious discussion to these people sometimes because they are that fucking stupid.
| 252 |
Salamantis Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:44:47pm |
re: #214 EEprom
"Now why would you say something stupid like that?"
Because it has been the predominently daily discussion for quite some time. Hardy a day goes by without a Evolution thread.
Some days Charles has more than one EVO post. Sometimes days go by without one. Just as with other anti-idiotarian concerns, he posts when he finds something new, outrageous, good, and/or interesting.
| 253 |
SteveC Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:44:57pm |
RW, heading your way Feb. 9 - Flying out of Charlotte Douglas to DC!
/Through Atlanta - can't these flyboys read a map?
| 254 |
redc1c4 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:45:15pm |
re: #198 sattv4u2
6 total hours sleep in the last 54 hours does that to me!
re: #206 ArchangelMichael
Last time I did something like that I started hallucinating... go to sleep! (If you can now)
puhleeze.... the first 24 is no big deal. the middle 24 is tough, and from 49 on to 72 or so is pretty much gravy. after that, you're in WTF land, as your ability to cognate approaches zero........
been there, done that.
| 255 |
freetoken Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:45:29pm |
re: #240 realwest
Well, please see my #235. I don't know where or who Gallup does his polling, I really don't.
As iraqnophobic wrote just upstream, it is difficult from a personal perspective to judge these things because of the selection bias we have, in our friends and mates, and also because fruit doesn't fall far from the tree.
That is why polling is such a challenge.. but one thing to note is how long Gallup has been doing these type of polls (about evolution), and how consistent the results have been over the years.
Indeed, it is that unchanging nature of beliefs in our society that has made some (who wish to see things change) give up.
| 256 |
Dark_Falcon Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:47:09pm |
re: #249 Erik The Red
Great atm. Very busy at work and the weather is fantastic.
Glad to hear it. As for me, its past midnight here in the Chicago suburbs so I'm turning in. Till tomorrow, all.
| 257 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:47:43pm |
re: #22 Teacake!
There was a guy here in New Orleans who after he killed his girlfriend, slept with her body for a few nights, then cut her up and cooked several parts of her. He had a lot of tattoos and was an alcoholic too. He then killed himself after the ordeal. It was horrible all the way around.
Thank goodness I don't have any tattoos!
| 258 |
Neutral President Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:48:18pm |
re: #254 redc1c4
Well mine was 48 hours, 3 hours of sleep, then 47 hours. During the last 5 of those 47 I thought going to a club and drinking was a good idea because I was on my fifth wind or some thing. So thats why I was in WTF land.
| 259 |
realwest Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:49:32pm |
re: #214 EEprom
"Because it has been the predominently daily discussion for quite some time. Hardy a day goes by without a Evolution thread."
SO WHAT? EVEN IF THAT STATEMENT WERE TRUE, SO WHAT?
This is CHARLES blog - he can put up any threads about any subject he wants to. If you don't like any particular thread(s) you can just skip past them.
BTW - have you been polled by Gallup recently?!
| 260 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:49:42pm |
| 261 |
Summer Seale Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:50:28pm |
re: #214 EEprom
"Now why would you say something stupid like that?"
Because it has been the predominently daily discussion for quite some time. Hardy a day goes by without a Evolution thread.
I have the feeling that the reason why is because Charles, like many of us here, are sick and tired for being associated by many others with Creationism. We see it as a big problem in the Republican party, and we're trying to bring attention to it and reinforce the idea that you don't have to be an idiot to be a Republican, or Conservative, or even just to agree with some aspects of that movement.
| 262 |
screaming_eagle Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:50:51pm |
| 263 |
screaming_eagle Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:52:02pm |
re: #260 Slumbering Behemoth
was only responding who else had a mustache
| 264 |
realwest Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:53:56pm |
re: #238 SteveC
NOPE - Citibank MANIFESTLY slept A LOT these last few years!
| 265 |
wolfie Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:54:28pm |
re: #250 Summer
Well, why not just avoid "born agains"...y'no, those people?
I'm not saying you shouldn't help them cross the street, but there's no sense debasing yourself to talking with them, if they are "that f***ing stupid."
/
| 266 |
SpaceJesus Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:54:46pm |
but aren't those car decals of the jesus fish eating the darwin fish cannibalism?
isn't eating jesus at communion also sort of like cannibalism?
i thought the religious right was all about eating other people. so confused.
| 267 |
SteveC Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:54:52pm |
Easy there, Summer... I'm a Believer. But I *know* I ain't got all the answers. And I don't think that believing means you that just forget to ask the questions.
I have friends like the person you encountered... so heavenly minded that are aren't any earthly good!
| 268 |
realwest Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:56:22pm |
re: #232 iraqnophobic
Kindly see my #229 and sattv4u2 's # 231.
Neither of us has ever, I mean EVER met people who think the way the Gallup poll would indicate that they do.
| 269 |
Syrah Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:56:41pm |
RealWest,
Why the question bout Gallup?
I had stepped away and seem to have missed a bit.
| 270 |
Summer Seale Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:57:12pm |
re: #267 SteveC
Easy there, Summer... I'm a Believer. But I *know* I ain't got all the answers. And I don't think that believing means you that just forget to ask the questions.
I have friends like the person you encountered... so heavenly minded that are aren't any earthly good!
I'm not against all born agains. I am just against people who don't think.
I'm an atheist, but it's pretty sad when an atheist knows more about the Bible than a born again. And I wasn't even discussing whether or not God exists. I was trying to discuss the philosophical and theological relationship between Hannukah and Christmas on a spiritually Jewish level and what it meant on a historical basis.
| 271 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:58:03pm |
re: #263 screaming_eagle
Just pretending to be indignant. I do that for comedic effect, and often fail.
/you would've laughed if you could've seen my face.
| 272 |
HelloDare Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:58:07pm |
Years ago, one of my sister's friends thought a Gallup Poll was that big stick a pole vaulter used. Seriously. (You know, gallop = run.)
| 273 |
redc1c4 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 10:58:21pm |
re: #260 Slumbering Behemoth
First, I'm a dude.
Second, pistols at
dawnnoon!
/
Mech/Armor/Cav Task forces at EENT.
/keepin it real.
| 275 |
realwest Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:01:06pm |
re: #250 Summer
Well, see that's what you get for wanting to delve deeply into religion. To most Christians (including myself) belief that Jesus Christ is our Savior and the Son of God is what really counts. The rest of it (the bible and different interpretations of it), don't really matter to us. I find it to be a fascinating discussion to have with some folks but I can understand someone simply answering the way he did, too.
| 276 |
redc1c4 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:01:58pm |
re: #274 Iron Fist
Room temperture IQ? I've known a couple of those along the way. They can be fun, right up until they aren't fun anymore.
it's enough to make ya take a drink, eh?
/cheers!
| 277 |
Summer Seale Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:02:19pm |
In fact, just to be absolutely clear, I was even (for the sake of argument) accepting that Jesus did come down to save everyone from their sins. I wanted that to be the basis of the discussion.
I'm not impolite and I wouldn't poke fun at somebody's beliefs just like that.
My point is: there was no discussing it. He didn't care, he didn't want to know, and none of it mattered to him. He's a moron, and I'm sure that most creationists are like him - most of the ones I've met, at any rate.
If somebody is religious but accepts science as part of the package and sees the bible other than the absolute literal truth on everything, I don't really have a problem with that. I might debate them on the existence of God, but I wouldn't go out of my way to insult them or anything.
| 278 |
Salamantis Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:02:48pm |
re: #250 Summer
I tried actually arguing theology with a born again on Christmas day at a party, and he wouldn't even discuss things sensibly with me. I kept trying to analyze Jesus's words on a rational level, and he kept telling me that it didn't matter, that he didn't know or understand, and that all that I had to do was believe that Jesus was the savior.
He wasn't even interested in what the words of the bible were. I was pretty stunned, I have to say. I kept telling him that even his Pastor would tell him otherwise, that his Pastor would have understood the differences in the texts of the bible, the differences of the books, etc... and he said that none of that mattered because all that mattered was that Jesus is my savior.
You can't even bring religious discussion to these people sometimes because they are that fucking stupid.
How is a self-proclaimed Christian who doesn't even know what's in the Bible but believes that if he says Jesus is Lord he's going to Heaven any different from a self-proclaimed Muslim who doesn't know what's in the Quran but believes that if he says the shahada (There is but one God, and Muhammed is his Prophet) he's going to Paradise? It's just ignorantly repeating a mantra at that point.
| 279 |
USBeast Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:03:25pm |
re: #274 Iron Fist
Room temperture IQ? I've known a couple of those along the way. They can be fun, right up until they aren't fun anymore.
Whoa. This sounds like a story line for CSI.
| 280 |
realwest Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:03:57pm |
re: #252 Salamantis
Hi Sal - listen, just to save you some time, that one has no intention of having any sort of intelligent discussion here - he is a true moby who thinks he has the right to tell Charles, the owner of this fabulous blog, what to put in LGF, or, more importantly what NOT to put in LGF.
Simple, really.
| 281 |
Summer Seale Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:04:44pm |
re: #275 realwest
Well, see that's what you get for wanting to delve deeply into religion. To most Christians (including myself) belief that Jesus Christ is our Savior and the Son of God is what really counts. The rest of it (the bible and different interpretations of it), don't really matter to us. I find it to be a fascinating discussion to have with some folks but I can understand someone simply answering the way he did, too.
I'm sorry, that's just not good enough for me. If somebody professes to believe in something, they should have a good reason. Just saying "I believe" isn't good enough for me. It's a dumb way to go about it.
Again, even as an Atheist, I can think of lots of theological arguments on belief in God. I don't accept them but at least I am aware of them. I have reasons for thinking the way that I do. Not even wanting to discuss your beliefs is the dumbest thing I've ever heard of.
If Jesus is really that important to you, you should be able to tell me why. If you can't, then you don't know enough to justify those beliefs. I think that isn't a good way to believe in something.
| 282 |
realwest Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:05:15pm |
re: #253 SteveC Hey SteveC - how long a layover are ya gonna have?
| 283 |
Summer Seale Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:05:35pm |
re: #278 Salamantis
How is a self-proclaimed Christian who doesn't even know what's in the Bible but believes that if he says Jesus is Lord he's going to Heaven any different from a self-proclaimed Muslim who doesn't know what's in the Quran but believes that if he says the shahada (There is but one God, and Muhammed is his Prophet) he's going to Paradise? It's just ignorantly repeating a mantra at that point.
I didn't say it was different, did I? =) I'm pretty virulent about Islam in any case.
| 284 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:06:20pm |
re: #277 Summer
My point is: there was no discussing it. He didn't care, he didn't want to know, and none of it mattered to him. He's a moron,
And no matter how much you kept asking and pushing, he still wouldn't discuss it, huh!
(now, what was that classic definition of insanity!?!?!)
| 285 |
SteveC Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:07:32pm |
re: #277 Summer
I'm not impolite and I wouldn't poke fun at somebody's beliefs just like that.
But when you use phrases like these people and they are that fucking stupid you're painting with a very broad brush. Reach back in your portfolio and see if you can one that is a bit thinner.
| 286 |
Summer Seale Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:08:42pm |
re: #284 sattv4u2
My point is: there was no discussing it. He didn't care, he didn't want to know, and none of it mattered to him. He's a moron,
And no matter how much you kept asking and pushing, he still wouldn't discuss it, huh!
(now, what was that classic definition of insanity!?!?!)
Well...he is a moron.
I only formed this opinion after he told me he wasn't interested in what Jesus said, only that he's the savior.
If somebody is a Christian, they should be interested in what Jesus said. I think Jesus's message is a fairly good one overall. Even I, a non believer, can see the depth of the overall message. Even I am interested in his words. How can somebody say that they're not interested at all and then profess that he's the greatest thing that ever happened in the world?
Gotta be a real idiot to think that way.
| 287 |
Summer Seale Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:08:58pm |
re: #285 SteveC
But when you use phrases like these people and they are that fucking stupid you're painting with a very broad brush. Reach back in your portfolio and see if you can one that is a bit thinner.
Oh I was talking about creationists. =)
| 288 |
SteveC Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:09:40pm |
re: #282 realwest
Hey SteveC - how long a layover are ya gonna have?
As little as possible. I had to reschedule that flight twice already; the plane lands at Reagan National at about the time I'm supposed to be downtown!
| 289 |
MJ Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:10:10pm |
New York Times has a surprise:
We believe that Mr. Daschle ought to step aside and let the president choose a less-blemished successor.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
| 290 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:11:57pm |
re: #286 Summer
Okay. Maybe you're too tired,. or too incensed reliving the incedent, but the point of my 284 was, well, to be blunt, make fun of YOU!
(with all due respect, of course!)
Geez louise !
| 291 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:12:38pm |
re: #289 MJ
New York Times has a surprise:
We believe that Mr. Daschle ought to step aside and let the president choose a less-blemished successor.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
wow ,, shocka !
| 292 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:12:43pm |
| 294 |
SteveC Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:14:41pm |
re: #292 Killian Bundy
/linky?
I tell ya, this is a difficult room! You guys want proof and everything! :)
| 295 |
Summer Seale Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:15:05pm |
re: #290 sattv4u2
Okay. Maybe you're too tired,. or too incensed reliving the incedent, but the point of my 284 was, well, to be blunt, make fun of YOU!
(with all due respect, of course!)Geez louise !
Yea, I know what you were trying to do, but you were assuming a lot there. You weren't there, you didn't see if I "pushed" him or not. I was in a discussion with him and it was a natural one that flowed where a theological point came up which I tried to talk about with him (we didn't start with it). For you to assume that I just walked up to him and pushed my argument on him is really stupid, irrational, and ignorant. Sorry. =)
And even had I done so, for him to respond that he wasn't interested in the words of Jesus apart from him being the savior would be, in my book, just a stupid response regardless of the situation.
| 296 |
MJ Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:15:17pm |
Qaddafi, as New African Union Head, Will Seek Single State
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
This will happen right after Isratine has been established.
| 297 |
Neutral President Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:15:29pm |
re: #289 MJ
New York Times has a surprise:
We believe that Mr. Daschle ought to step aside and let the president choose a less-blemished successor.
Perhaps they are finally getting bothered by their declining readership and stock price.
| 298 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:16:51pm |
re: #294 SteveC
I tell ya, this is a difficult room! You guys want proof and everything! :)
Well hey, I do believe that one of the girls testified/said that Charlie made a bus fly.
/does that sound like Manson believed in gravity to you?
| 299 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:16:56pm |
re: #176 EEprom
Yer hoggin' all the meth. I don't want any myself, but still, you shouldn't be hoggin' it like that.
| 300 |
SteveC Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:19:01pm |
re: #298 Killian Bundy
Well hey, I do believe that one of the girls testified/said that Charlie made a bus fly.
/does that sound like Manson believed in gravity to you?
Stewardess: Mr. Ali, please fasten your seatbelt.
Muhammad Ali: Superman don't need no seatbelt.
Stewardess: Superman don't need no airplane, either. Buckle up.
| 301 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:19:26pm |
re: #295 Summer
Yea, I know what you were trying to do, but you were assuming a lot there. You weren't there, you didn't see if I "pushed" him or not. I was in a discussion with him and it was a natural one that flowed where a theological point came up which I tried to talk about with him (we didn't start with it). For you to assume that I just walked up to him and pushed my argument on him is really stupid, irrational, and ignorant. Sorry. =)
And even had I done so, for him to respond that he wasn't interested in the words of Jesus apart from him being the savior would be, in my book, just a stupid response regardless of the situation.
I never said you pushed him, nor how the to[ic started. but from YOUR words ( I kept trying to analyze Jesus's words on a rational level, and he kept telling me ) one must assume that, as I inferred,
Doing the same thing over and over yet expecting a different result!
| 302 |
MJ Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:19:35pm |
re: #297 ArchangelMichael
Perhaps they are finally getting bothered by their declining readership and stock price.
Might also have something to do with this:
Daschle Has Received $195,000 for Speeches to Health Care Groups
"...Daschle has been paid $195,000 to give speeches to health care industry groups -- the very sector President Obama has designated him to overhaul."
[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
What was that Obama said about lobbyists?
| 303 |
Inquisitive Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:20:29pm |
re: #295 Summer
Yea, I know what you were trying to do, but you were assuming a lot there. You weren't there, you didn't see if I "pushed" him or not. I was in a discussion with him and it was a natural one that flowed where a theological point came up which I tried to talk about with him (we didn't start with it). For you to assume that I just walked up to him and pushed my argument on him is really stupid, irrational, and ignorant. Sorry. =)
And even had I done so, for him to respond that he wasn't interested in the words of Jesus apart from him being the savior would be, in my book, just a stupid response regardless of the situation.
Did you ever think that maybe he just didn't want to discuss it with you.....you said you were at a party....maybe he wanted to enjoy it and did not think it was a topic he wished to discuss and was trying to blow you off...and maybe he believes there is some things that you don't discuss at parties, because they can become a strain to the party....like politics, religion,....
| 306 |
realwest Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:21:21pm |
re: #281 Summer
See you've hit the nail spot on the head. You're an Atheist and can't understand how someone could believe in something without articulating a basis for it.
The reality is that - and I'll only speak for myself here, is that I have indeed studied the bible, both Old and New Testaments, I have listened - on occasion - to ministers and Chaplin's and for ME it makes sense that God is omniscient, omnipotent, and benevolent and that He sent his only son, Jesus Christ, to die for our sins - to purify us, if you will. I believe in that. I do not want to convert you from your belief in Atheism and quite frankly don't care what your Atheistic beliefs are based upon. And I most assuredly would not care to discuss them at a party.
Now if we were to be in a discussion group or philosophy class or a class or discussion of comparative religions and the lack of same, then perhaps I'd love to chat with you about it.
Oh, and btw, I DO believe in Evolution and I don't believe in creationism or ID and I don't believe they should be taught in any public school science class, either.
And I am truly sorry if that's not good enough for you.
| 307 |
pink freud Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:21:45pm |
re: #302 MJ
Lobbyists? I think he said, "We don't NEED no steenkin' lobbyists!"
| 308 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:22:01pm |
re: #302 MJ
What was that Obama said about lobbyists?
Ones that influenced the past admin ,, BAD
Ones that I think can help me ,,,,,,,,,,,GOOD
| 309 |
USBeast Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:22:12pm |
re: #289 MJ
New York Times has a surprise:
We believe that Mr. Daschle ought to step aside and let the president choose a less-blemished successor.
[Link: www.nytimes.com...]
The more I look at Obama's Cabinet choices the more I think: "This guy knows where all the bodies are buried!"
As far as Daschle's replacement goes, the best we could hope for would be one with thicker make up.
| 310 |
Summer Seale Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:22:31pm |
re: #275 realwest
Well, see that's what you get for wanting to delve deeply into religion. To most Christians (including myself) belief that Jesus Christ is our Savior and the Son of God is what really counts. The rest of it (the bible and different interpretations of it), don't really matter to us. I find it to be a fascinating discussion to have with some folks but I can understand someone simply answering the way he did, too.
BTW, another comment here....
I find this attitude to be really shocking.
Jesus had darn good reasons for saying the things he said. He also didn't go around just telling people to think this or that. He used stories and parables to make his point. He wouldn't have bothered doing that if he didn't think them to be important points. Also, his followers didn't go around just telling people to believe just because they had to believe. They had a story to tell, ideas to share, a philosophical "revolution" to impart. These things were important to Jesus and the apostles and others as well and represented true arguments at the time which were very important for historical, political, and theological reasons. These things mattered and people gave their lives for these ideas.
To just throw all that away and say that you "just gotta believe" because that's the way it is completely ignores the message they were trying to impart. They were, in part, trying to get people to think for themselves. If you don't understand that message, if you don't care about it one way or the other, you're destroying the message within. It wasn't just about "believing" - it was about understanding why as well.
There is something very twisted in not understanding this and just "accepting" that Jesus is the savior. It doesn't work like that.
| 311 |
Syrah Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:22:35pm |
Wondering dangerously off topic -
Uhm . . . give it a pass.
The dark chocolate part is very good, but the cherry and Chili filling is . . . unimpressive.
| 312 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:25:08pm |
re: #310 Summer
It doesn't work like that
For you ,, no,,, For me ,, no,, for some,, YES
(Thats why Baskin Robbins has more than one flavor)
| 313 |
MJ Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:25:56pm |
re: #304 Iron Fist
"It is the source, rather than the sentiment, that is interesting."
True. It's almost as unthinkable as if Keith Olbermann or Chris Matthews said something critical of Obama.
| 314 |
Inquisitive Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:26:02pm |
re: #310 Summer
BTW, another comment here....
I find this attitude to be really shocking.
Jesus had darn good reasons for saying the things he said. He also didn't go around just telling people to think this or that. He used stories and parables to make his point. He wouldn't have bothered doing that if he didn't think them to be important points. Also, his followers didn't go around just telling people to believe just because they had to believe. They had a story to tell, ideas to share, a philosophical "revolution" to impart. These things were important to Jesus and the apostles and others as well and represented true arguments at the time which were very important for historical, political, and theological reasons. These things mattered and people gave their lives for these ideas.
To just throw all that away and say that you "just gotta believe" because that's the way it is completely ignores the message they were trying to impart. They were, in part, trying to get people to think for themselves. If you don't understand that message, if you don't care about it one way or the other, you're destroying the message within. It wasn't just about "believing" - it was about understanding why as well.
There is something very twisted in not understanding this and just "accepting" that Jesus is the savior. It doesn't work like that.
You said he was a "born again".....maybe he was still learning...and just didn't know the answers....and was saying this to not to let you know he did not know the answers.....or as I mentioned above....maybe he was trying to enjoy the party and this was just not the topic he wanted to discuss......
| 315 |
SteveC Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:26:10pm |
I just renamed my keyboard Hudson River....
.... because I'm about to crash land on it. Nite all!
| 316 |
Sharmuta Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:26:28pm |
re: #310 Summer
I agree with you on this. Jesus was trying to spread a larger message of love for one's fellow man. This is what is so shocking in some of these threads- to see Christians damning Charles and others to hell. It's the most un-Christian thing I can think of. It's not loving, it's not caring, and it's not what Jesus would do.
| 317 |
pink freud Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:26:44pm |
re: #303 Inquisitive
Did you ever think that maybe he just didn't want to discuss it with you.....you said you were at a party....maybe he wanted to enjoy it and did not think it was a topic he wished to discuss and was trying to blow you off...and maybe he believes there is some things that you don't discuss at parties, because they can become a strain to the party....like politics, religion,....
To add my two cents, just from what I've seen here on this thread, there may have been an overabundance of offensive words peppered here and there, such as "stupid, moron, idiot, irrational, ignorant, dumb, dumbest" that may have been a factor. Just sayin' ...
| 319 |
Summer Seale Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:26:49pm |
re: #303 Inquisitive
Did you ever think that maybe he just didn't want to discuss it with you.....you said you were at a party....maybe he wanted to enjoy it and did not think it was a topic he wished to discuss and was trying to blow you off...and maybe he believes there is some things that you don't discuss at parties, because they can become a strain to the party....like politics, religion,....
He was the one who brought up religion in the first place. He started bitching about Muslims and other stuff.
Then he asked me why the care about Jerusalem and I told him what the "basis" was. He didn't know about the Temple, and I told him. Then I told him it was also important to Jesus and related to him that the redemption of the Temple during Hannukah and the redemption of "Israel" for the Christian concept of the Messiah could have been seen in a similar light. It went downhill from there.
| 320 |
Killian Bundy Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:26:49pm |
re: #308 sattv4u2
What was that Obama said about lobbyists?
Ones that influenced the past admin ,, BAD
Ones that I think can help me ,,,,,,,,,,,GOOD
Remember Obama's questionnaire?
/it's all so much bull[expletive deleted]
| 321 |
Inquisitive Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:26:59pm |
re: #306 realwest
See you've hit the nail spot on the head. You're an Atheist and can't understand how someone could believe in something without articulating a basis for it.
The reality is that - and I'll only speak for myself here, is that I have indeed studied the bible, both Old and New Testaments, I have listened - on occasion - to ministers and Chaplin's and for ME it makes sense that God is omniscient, omnipotent, and benevolent and that He sent his only son, Jesus Christ, to die for our sins - to purify us, if you will. I believe in that. I do not want to convert you from your belief in Atheism and quite frankly don't care what your Atheistic beliefs are based upon. And I most assuredly would not care to discuss them at a party.
Now if we were to be in a discussion group or philosophy class or a class or discussion of comparative religions and the lack of same, then perhaps I'd love to chat with you about it.
Oh, and btw, I DO believe in Evolution and I don't believe in creationism or ID and I don't believe they should be taught in any public school science class, either.
And I am truly sorry if that's not good enough for you.
Nicely stated......
| 322 |
Inquisitive Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:29:35pm |
re: #317 pink freud
To add my two cents, just from what I've seen here on this thread, there may have been an overabundance of offensive words peppered here and there, such as "stupid, moron, idiot, irrational, ignorant, dumb, dumbest" that may have been a factor. Just sayin' ...
I agree with your 2 cents
| 323 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:29:50pm |
re: #320 Killian Bundy
Remember Obama's questionnaire?
/it's all so much bull[expletive deleted]
The next page was
VIII Misc.
# 64
Please ignore all above if you were A) a former member of Clintons inner circle or B) a dem that has been a party hack for decades and wants a job
| 324 |
USBeast Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:30:21pm |
re: #293 Iron Fist
Mine too and I've been in some very seedy back rooms.
| 325 |
Summer Seale Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:30:40pm |
re: #318 Iron Fist
Actually, this is where you are showing your lack of grounding in Christian religious doctrine. You see, that is exactly how it does work. I'm saved through faith, not through works.
Again, it's not just your faith. Jesus had a definite message he wanted to impart. It was so important that several books were written about it at the time (not just four). It is the height of irresponsibility to throw everything away and just accept without understanding the message and the reason for it.
Or do you think he just gave all those nice parables for no reason at all? People died to protect those stories. They didn't just die to protect "I believe". They didn't have to write that on paper. They wrote those messages on paper because they understood, and knew, that this message was important not only to them but to everyone else they could think of.
You're throwing out their entire sacrifice to say otherwise.
| 326 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:31:14pm |
re: #317 pink freud
To add my two cents, just from what I've seen here on this thread, there may have been an overabundance of offensive words peppered here and there, such as "stupid, moron, idiot, irrational, ignorant, dumb, dumbest" that may have been a factor. Just sayin' ...
The Anti-Dale Carnegie method of persuasion!
| 328 |
Summer Seale Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:32:10pm |
re: #306 realwest
See you've hit the nail spot on the head. You're an Atheist and can't understand how someone could believe in something without articulating a basis for it.
The reality is that - and I'll only speak for myself here, is that I have indeed studied the bible, both Old and New Testaments, I have listened - on occasion - to ministers and Chaplin's and for ME it makes sense that God is omniscient, omnipotent, and benevolent and that He sent his only son, Jesus Christ, to die for our sins - to purify us, if you will. I believe in that. I do not want to convert you from your belief in Atheism and quite frankly don't care what your Atheistic beliefs are based upon. And I most assuredly would not care to discuss them at a party.
Now if we were to be in a discussion group or philosophy class or a class or discussion of comparative religions and the lack of same, then perhaps I'd love to chat with you about it.
Oh, and btw, I DO believe in Evolution and I don't believe in creationism or ID and I don't believe they should be taught in any public school science class, either.
And I am truly sorry if that's not good enough for you.
Again, he started bitching about Muslims and religion. I didn't.
| 329 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:32:13pm |
re: #325 Summer
Would you be open to advice from an old guy?
When you're in a hole,,,, STOP DIGGING!
| 330 |
realwest Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:33:08pm |
re: #255 freetoken
"it is that unchanging nature of beliefs in our society that has made some (who wish to see things change) give up." Well if that's true, I think it's a shame. Because America was founded by Theists and, as a nation over 200 years old, you're correct the apple hasn't fallen far from the tree - we have been, primarily, a Judeo-Christian nation since our inception and have done many things incorrectly and indeed badly - there was, after all, no road map for the Founding Fathers or their successors to follow: no one else had EVER tried having the governed do the governing. But we have also, as a nation, done some truly incredible things and have helped spread Democracy around the world.
Maybe not straying too far from our roots as a nation and as it has evolved, isn't such a bad thing.
| 331 |
pink freud Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:33:20pm |
| 332 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:33:52pm |
| 333 |
Inquisitive Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:33:58pm |
re: #325 Summer
Again, it's not just your faith. Jesus had a definite message he wanted to impart. It was so important that several books were written about it at the time (not just four). It is the height of irresponsibility to throw everything away and just accept without understanding the message and the reason for it.
Or do you think he just gave all those nice parables for no reason at all? People died to protect those stories. They didn't just die to protect "I believe". They didn't have to write that on paper. They wrote those messages on paper because they understood, and knew, that this message was important not only to them but to everyone else they could think of.
You're throwing out their entire sacrifice to say otherwise.
I know his word.....I know those nice parables.....I believe! and for many....that "I believe" is all that they feel needs to be said....It is faith!
| 334 |
Summer Seale Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:34:34pm |
re: #329 sattv4u2
Would you be open to advice from an old guy?
When you're in a hole,,,, STOP DIGGING!
What hole? I related a story where somebody at a party, who is a creationist, didn't care about anything other than Jesus is the savior. Jesus's words, history, or life didn't matter to him. I said that I didn't start the argument, and I only brought up a theological point when he steered towards it.
| 335 |
pink freud Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:35:16pm |
| 336 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:36:28pm |
re: #335 pink freud
You're doing fine by me.
Get
Some
Sleep
thanks ,, but can't. i'm at work and i'm supervising 2 important change over projects
| 338 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:37:14pm |
re: #337 buzzsawmonkey
Gosh, late to the evolution thread, and I can't find anyplace to park my mastodon.
san we cannabalize it?
| 340 |
pink freud Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:37:35pm |
re: #334 Summer
What hole? I related a story where somebody at a party, who is a creationist, didn't care about anything other than Jesus is the savior. Jesus's words, history, or life didn't matter to him. I said that I didn't start the argument, and I only brought up a theological point when he steered towards it.
Your arguments are all hinged on someone else being stupid. Or an idiot. Or moronic. Or dumb. Or irrational. Or ignorant.
/whatever
| 342 |
Sharmuta Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:38:09pm |
I don't believe Jesus told us the new commandment to love each other as He loved us so that it could be ignored.
| 343 |
Summer Seale Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:38:15pm |
re: #333 Inquisitive
I know his word.....I know those nice parables.....I believe! and for many....that "I believe" is all that they feel needs to be said....It is faith!
I guarantee you that if you told 99% of pastors/ministers/priests out there that you just "believe" and don't care about the message, they would be sorely disappointed in you and they would try to educate you on the importance of why you should believe.
They would also be pretty shocked if you told them that the words of Jesus don't matter as long as you believe. Almost every Pastor I've ever talked to has studied the Bible for years at various schools to understand the depth of the message. There is a reason for that. They don't just go around telling people to believe just for the sake of believing. They try to impart the reason for this deeply held belief.
| 345 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:43:12pm |
re: #334 Summer
What hole? I related a story where somebody at a party, who is a creationist, didn't care about anything other than Jesus is the savior. Jesus's words, history, or life didn't matter to him. I said that I didn't start the argument, and I only brought up a theological point when he steered towards it.
and what most of us got from that story was your intolerance (geee ,, what made us think that ? an overabundance of offensive words peppered here and there, such as "stupid, moron, idiot, irrational, ignorant, dumb, dumbest",,,,) and harrassmment ( I kept trying
| 346 |
realwest Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:43:17pm |
Well y'all it's been ..........interesting to say the least. And while I didn't learn as much as I usually do out here, I did learn some things about some posters, so I had a great time, even though I've manifestly not pleased all the people all the time, again!
So good night to you all, I hope you all have a GREAT EVENING/EARLY MORNING and that I get the chance to see you all down the road.
I probably won't be on the Dead Thread much tomorrow as I have a God-awful early appointment with my oncologist, but hope to get the chance to see you all down the road!
Good night, all.
| 347 |
Summer Seale Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:43:28pm |
re: #341 Iron Fist
I can already see why the guy really blew you off. You don't know me. You don't know what my life has been like, you don't know where I am coming from. You don't know how much or how little I've studied Christianity, or the Bible, or religion in general.
But you think you can tell me what my religion SHOULD be.
I didn't try to tell you what your religion should be.
I just said that people who do believe should be interested in the message. I think people who aren't are very stupid. I'm not mocking people who believe. I am mocking people who believe with no reason - the same exact way that Jesus chided people for following the commandments without thinking about them, without reasoning things for themselves, and without understanding why they were doing so.
I am merely doing exactly what Jesus did in pointing it out.
That you believe in him is great - by all means, please do. But then do him the honor of understanding his message and not just blowing it off.
And I didn't accuse you directly of not knowing or caring either. But since you brought it up for your specific case, I felt the need to respond.
| 348 |
Summer Seale Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:44:23pm |
re: #345 sattv4u2
and what most of us got from that story was your intolerance (geee ,, what made us think that ? an overabundance of offensive words peppered here and there, such as "stupid, moron, idiot, irrational, ignorant, dumb, dumbest",,,,) and harrassmment ( I kept trying
I use offensive words when appropriate. I find idiocy on that level to be offensive and I aptly described it as such.
| 350 |
Inquisitive Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:44:36pm |
re: #343 Summer
I guarantee you that if you told 99% of pastors/ministers/priests out there that you just "believe" and don't care about the message, they would be sorely disappointed in you and they would try to educate you on the importance of why you should believe.
They would also be pretty shocked if you told them that the words of Jesus don't matter as long as you believe. Almost every Pastor I've ever talked to has studied the Bible for years at various schools to understand the depth of the message. There is a reason for that. They don't just go around telling people to believe just for the sake of believing. They try to impart the reason for this deeply held belief.
Excuse Me.... don't go saying something I never said....I did not say I didn't think Jesus's words did not matter....I said I know the word....I know the parables and I believe.....then I said......... for many...."I believe" is all they fell needs to be said....I DID NOT SAY THAT I BELIEVE THAT THAT IS ALL THAT NEEDS TO BE SAID!
| 352 |
Summer Seale Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:46:32pm |
re: #350 Inquisitive
Excuse Me.... don't go saying something I never said....I did not say I didn't think Jesus's words did not matter....I said I know the word....I know the parables and I believe.....then I said......... for many...."I believe" is all they fell needs to be said....I DID NOT SAY THAT I BELIEVE THAT THAT IS ALL THAT NEEDS TO BE SAID!
I was merely responding to your words about not needing to understand. I didn't mean specifically that you personally didn't understand. =)
| 353 |
Inquisitive Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:46:40pm |
| 354 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:47:57pm |
re: #348 Summer
I use offensive words when appropriate. I find idiocy on that level to be offensive and I aptly described it as such.
sigh!
| 356 |
slokat Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:49:19pm |
I am mocking people who believe with no reason - the same exact way that Jesus chided people for following the commandments without thinking about them, without reasoning things for themselves, and without understanding why they were doing so.
Book, Chapter & Verses? ...that supports the bold statement.
thanks in advance
| 357 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:49:38pm |
IRONY ,,
That party goer probabaly prayed for Summers soul that evening!
| 358 |
Inquisitive Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:49:55pm |
re: #352 Summer
I was merely responding to your words about not needing to understand. I didn't mean specifically that you personally didn't understand. =)
Oh no....not so fast....yes you did......From your #343
guarantee you that if you told 99% of pastors/ministers/priests out there that you just "believe" and don't care about the message, they would be sorely disappointed in you and they would try to educate you on the importance of why you should believe.
They would also be pretty shocked if you told them that the words of Jesus don't matter as long as you believe. Almost every Pastor I've ever talked to has studied the Bible for years at various schools to understand the depth of the message. There is a reason for that. They don't just go around telling people to believe just for the sake of believing. They try to impart the reason for this deeply held belief.
| 359 |
Slumbering Behemoth Stinks Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:50:12pm |
| 360 |
capitalist piglet Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:50:23pm |
Here's what I don't understand.
Why would anyone who did not believe in Christ's divinity come to any conclusion other than that he was crazy? He told people who he was. Today, we'd call a person who said these things insane.
I believe he is my savior. I've chosen "Lord" in the lunatic or Lord question.
If you didn't chose "Lord", why would you give any gravity to the words of someone who believed himself to be "the way, the truth, and the life"? Why care about his words at all?
| 361 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:52:20pm |
re: #358 Inquisitive
no no no ,,, not YOU, you ,,,,, YOU !
Geeezzzz!
//// (she did the same to me btw,,, 'thats not what I said ,, thats what I SAID! )
| 363 |
Inquisitive Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:52:34pm |
re: #358 Inquisitive
Oh no....not so fast....yes you did......From your #343
guarantee you that if you told 99% of pastors/ministers/priests out there that you just "believe" and don't care about the message, they would be sorely disappointed in you and they would try to educate you on the importance of why you should believe.
They would also be pretty shocked if you told them that the words of Jesus don't matter as long as you believe. Almost every Pastor I've ever talked to has studied the Bible for years at various schools to understand the depth of the message. There is a reason for that. They don't just go around telling people to believe just for the sake of believing. They try to impart the reason for this deeply held belief.
Forgot to bold a couple of you's Summer said she didn't use to imply me to her # 343 post.
| 364 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:54:09pm |
| 368 |
Inquisitive Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:57:38pm |
re: #362 Iron Fist
But in a lot of ways, that is all that needs to be said. What makes someone a Christian isn't being able to recite the Gospels. Nor is it having memorized all of the miracles, or having plumbed the depths of the Trinity, or Transubstantiation, or the obscure protocols of ancient sects of monks.
Accepting that Jesus is the Son of God, and that He died for your sins, and was Resurrected, conquering death for us, is really the only belief that matters. You can be a Christian without all of the other window dressing. And without that
belieffaith, you may be a tremendous biblical scholar and gifted theologian, but you aren't really a Christian.(Only one word was misspelled. It is a miracle :-)
Oh I know this.....but I aslo believe that we must also spread the word to those who do not know it....I Have FAITH......
| 369 |
sattv4u2 Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:58:58pm |
re: #368 Inquisitive
Oh I know this.....but I aslo believe that we must also spread the word to those who do not know it....I Have FAITH......
I had her once also. TWICE, now that I think about it!
BAD SATT ,,, BAD BAD BAD !
| 370 |
Sharmuta Mon, Feb 2, 2009 11:59:19pm |
re: #342 Sharmuta
I don't believe Jesus told us the new commandment to love each other as He loved us so that it could be ignored.
So I'm wrong? I don't have to treat others with kindness? I can be a complete jerk, treat my fellow humans like shit, and disregard Jesus' commandment?
Honestly- I think this would disappoint Jesus.
| 371 |
Sharmuta Tue, Feb 3, 2009 12:00:21am |
What about Jesus' message of forgiveness? I can disregard that too?
| 372 |
Salamantis Tue, Feb 3, 2009 12:00:36am |
re: #343 Summer
I guarantee you that if you told 99% of pastors/ministers/priests out there that you just "believe" and don't care about the message, they would be sorely disappointed in you and they would try to educate you on the importance of why you should believe.
They would also be pretty shocked if you told them that the words of Jesus don't matter as long as you believe. Almost every Pastor I've ever talked to has studied the Bible for years at various schools to understand the depth of the message. There is a reason for that. They don't just go around telling people to believe just for the sake of believing. They try to impart the reason for this deeply held belief.
Unless one actually knows about Jesus - His life and His message - one doesn't even really know WHO is supposed to save them, or WHY. That level of uncomprehending belief in an unknown seems so shallow to me that I'm unsure as to whether or not it even qualifies as Christianity. But nevertheless, there are always going to be relatively simple people in the world, and it would be unfair to deny them salvation simply because they lacked the capacity to understand.
The Hindus have a nice way of approaching this conundrum. They distinguish three different Ways: the Way of the Head, the Way of the Hand, and the Way of the Heart. The Way of the Head is the way of contemplation and understanding, and is for the intelligentsia and the cognoscenti (these are generally the people tasked to explain the faith to others). The Way of the Hand is the way of service, and is for those moved to charitable and compassionate works (the common contemporary example, although in the opinion of Christopher Hitchens a flawed one, is Mother Theresa). The Way of the Heart is the way of devotion, and is for the adoring, the rapturous and the pious (mystics and cloisterers come to mind).
| 373 |
Summer Seale Tue, Feb 3, 2009 12:06:11am |
re: #360 capitalist piglet
Here's what I don't understand.
Why would anyone who did not believe in Christ's divinity come to any conclusion other than that he was crazy? He told people who he was. Today, we'd call a person who said these things insane.
I believe he is my savior. I've chosen "Lord" in the lunatic or Lord question.
If you didn't chose "Lord", why would you give any gravity to the words of someone who believed himself to be "the way, the truth, and the life"? Why care about his words at all?
You think that he's divine because you probably grew up in a place where that is the norm and accepted as fact. However, Jesus was not originally thought of as divine by everyone. His message is what convinced people, not just him going around saying that he's the light and people saying "oh yeah, you know, you're right...you are". He made people see something because his message was very deep and important. His followers also didn't just go around saying "you know, this dude Jesus, he's the son of God because you just gotta believe, you know"... They presented his story and his sayings and arguments in testaments as to why people should believe. They couldn't convince people any other way.
You think people only today would have called Jesus crazy if he walked around just saying he's the son of God with no "proof"? People back then thought the same as well: that other Messiahs were crazy. In fact, that's a darn good reason as to why he may have been also scorned by "his own people" - because they didn't believe him. Some did believe him because they were convinced with a message that was different from other messages. To ignore all this is to ignore the story of Jesus and why it all mattered. It did matter. It mattered very much to Jesus and to his disciples. They didn't go walking around the desert and Jerusalem and they didn't go around pissing off Romans by saying you just gotta believe. They went around and spread a message.
And that's the entire point. The message is what pissed off the Romans. It wasn't just because Jesus thought he was the Son of God. We know that lots of other people thought that they were too. Not all of them were killed. Most were ignored. It was the message that pissed off the Romans. It's a darn important part of the story.
I just can't understand how anyone can be a Christian and not understand the vital importance of this point. There are so many reasons to believe in Jesus's message. Again, even I as an Atheist can actually appreciate this in a very deep way. To just argue that it isn't important is a very silly thing to do. Jesus's message mattered very much - to him and to his followers, and to the followers that were convinced by it - and it alone - for centuries afterwards. The message was the only thing they had to convince others. Why anyone would suddenly say today that this message isn't all that important is beyond me.
And as to Jesus's insight on unthinking people at the time obeying without understanding: that was also part of the message. But that's way too complex to go into at 12am, so I'm not going to. But if somebody doesn't believe me, fine. Nobody has to. People can go and ask a minister if they really don't believe me. I'm not going to sit here and justify every single thing about Jesus he ever said, or his intentions. It's getting ridiculous.
| 374 |
Inquisitive Tue, Feb 3, 2009 12:06:46am |
re: #370 Sharmuta
So I'm wrong? I don't have to treat others with kindness? I can be a complete jerk, treat my fellow humans like shit, and disregard Jesus' commandment?
Honestly- I think this would disappoint Jesus.
re: #371 Sharmuta
What about Jesus' message of forgiveness? I can disregard that too?
No....please don't disregard....learn it....live it.....but there is something we also learn.....we are all sinners....and will fall short.....so we go back to what we learned.....Jesus died for our sins....we can be forgiven each time we fall short.....IF we ask for the forgiveness.......
| 375 |
Sharmuta Tue, Feb 3, 2009 12:13:33am |
re: #373 Summer
I think His message mattered- and still does. I think that people can read His message, not accept Him as their Savior, but still see wisdom and beauty in His message but follow His example. I think the world would be a better place if more people followed His message, even if they don't accept Him as their Savior. Maybe this will offend some Christians here, but I don't care. I would rather have a world full of people who believe we should be loving and forgiving with each other.
And I don't see how creationism helps spread this message. How is thinking the world is 6000 years old help me be a more loving, forgiving person? How does that help me treat my fellow man with more respect?
| 376 |
pink freud Tue, Feb 3, 2009 12:15:13am |
re: #369 sattv4u2
I had her once also. TWICE, now that I think about it!
BAD SATT ,,, BAD BAD BAD !
I used to work with three girls, all in the same place: Faith. Hope. Charity.
| 377 |
Sharmuta Tue, Feb 3, 2009 12:16:58am |
re: #374 Inquisitive
We need a symbol for rhetorical statements, like a sarc tag, because I would never disregard His message. I think it's just as important to understanding God's Love as Jesus' sacrifice was.
I get it- God loves me and wants me to love others. But I think Summer's point was that only half of that gets through when one accepts Jesus, but doesn't care what His message is.
| 378 |
Summer Seale Tue, Feb 3, 2009 12:19:34am |
re: #375 Sharmuta
I think His message mattered- and still does. I think that people can read His message, not accept Him as their Savior, but still see wisdom and beauty in His message but follow His example. I think the world would be a better place if more people followed His message, even if they don't accept Him as their Savior. Maybe this will offend some Christians here, but I don't care. I would rather have a world full of people who believe we should be loving and forgiving with each other.
And I don't see how creationism helps spread this message. How is thinking the world is 6000 years old help me be a more loving, forgiving person? How does that help me treat my fellow man with more respect?
I completely agree. And it amazes me that this level of ignorance is defended here by some, saying that these things don't matter.
I have a feeling that many of them are creationists, or IDers, who have learned to keep their mouths shut on that specific topic on this blog and instead, turn to religious fervor to disguise their hatred of all things secular.
And that totally pisses me off.
| 379 |
Inquisitive Tue, Feb 3, 2009 12:31:26am |
re: #378 Summer
I completely agree. And it amazes me that this level of ignorance is defended here by some, saying that these things don't matter.
I have a feeling that many of them are creationists, or IDers, who have learned to keep their mouths shut on that specific topic on this blog and instead, turn to religious fervor to disguise their hatred of all things secular.
And that totally pisses me off.
Not an IDer.....depends on creationist....because I posted a link (can you belive in God and evolution) the other eve...that states even those that believe in God and evolution...can be considered a creationist.....so since I do believe in God... then under that defenition I would be a "creationist".....didn't get started at first of blog....just jumped in where I started....do I believe that JD believing in Darwin's evolution made him what he was....of course not....
| 380 |
Salamantis Tue, Feb 3, 2009 12:36:45am |
I can see where some Christians would be having problems here. They believe in a just and fair God, add believe that all souls who turn their face to Him will be redemed When presented with the alternatives of either having their God damn people who are just too stupid to get it, but are otherwise of good heart and actions, or having to accept that people who are unable to grasp the message, some of whom we may care for very deeply, lack souls, and are merely zombies, I can fully understand them choosing the alternative that even a naive or obtuse understanding of the faith is enough, provided that the heart is true.
But what I cannot understand those who profess to believe, have the capacity to understand the message, and nevertheless do not make it a point to do so. To me, that seems to be a pretty hypocritical way to approach what are supposed to be matters of ultimate concern.
| 381 |
Summer Seale Tue, Feb 3, 2009 12:53:49am |
re: #380 Salamantis
I can see where some Christians would be having problems here. They believe in a just and fair God, add believe that all souls who turn their face to Him will be redemed When presented with the alternatives of either having their God damn people who are just too stupid to get it, but are otherwise of good heart and actions, or having to accept that people who are unable to grasp the message, some of whom we may care for very deeply, lack souls, and are merely zombies, I can fully understand them choosing the alternative that even a naive or obtuse understanding of the faith is enough, provided that the heart is true.
But what I cannot understand those who profess to believe, have the capacity to understand the message, and nevertheless do not make it a point to do so. To me, that seems to be a pretty hypocritical way to approach what are supposed to be matters of ultimate concern.
Honestly, it just tells me a heck of a lot about their mentality.
Most religious people I know have a very good understanding of why they believe the things that they do. It may all come down to faith in the end, but it matters to them that they have given it some thought and not just blindly accept something because somebody told them that it is the thing to do.
Note that people here, including the incredibly religious Christians who were arguing me about "just gotta believe", flame Muslims for "just believing" as well. They're being incredibly hypocritical. I know exactly why I don't believe in Christianity, and why many others do. I also know exactly why I don't believe Mohammed was a prophet, and I also understand why others do. To just say that these things don't matter is to be as blind and stupid as the dumbass Mohammedans who flew planes into buildings and blow themselves up for their Allah. It is the exact same mentality - blind and willful ignorance, and the incredible hubris to go with it. It is positively sickening.
So, no, just saying "you just gotta believe" doesn't cut it for me.
Note: I'm not chastising all believers. I'm chastising those who believe without reason, cause, or interest. People who understand the message and are interested in the reasons for it are in a completely different category.
| 383 |
brandon13 Tue, Feb 3, 2009 2:14:19am |
What an intellectually dishonest argument. That that it surprises me a great deal.
| 384 |
Sharmuta Tue, Feb 3, 2009 3:32:36am |
What's particularly disgusting about this correlation by the Texas creationists is dahmer, as a child, was already quite disturbed. He displayed anti-social behaviors as a child, already collecting dead animals and dissecting them before his teens. This man was sick most of his life, and it had nothing, nothing to do with learning of evolutionary theory.
So, not only is this a smear against evolution, it's a wanton disregard for serious mental and psychological disorders. These Texas creationists have no shame.
| 385 |
NYCHardhat Tue, Feb 3, 2009 3:41:52am |
What a crock of shit. Evolution is responsible for psychopaths? What next? America caused 9/11?
| 386 |
SDC Tue, Feb 3, 2009 4:24:37am |
I hear Dahmer also liked dogs. You know who ALSO liked dogs? Adolf Hitler, that's who.
| 388 |
RexMundi Tue, Feb 3, 2009 5:30:41am |
re: #95 ParanoidPyro
Is cannibalism wrong if the person died of natural causes?
Only if they died of natural selection!
| 389 |
RexMundi Tue, Feb 3, 2009 5:38:22am |
re: #176 EEprom
You should just rename this site to:
All Evolution, All The Time.
Why fixate on what you believe is someone else's fixation? Is it so difficult for your consciousness to filter out threads that you don't find interesting?
| 390 |
Achilles Tang Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:06:29am |
The Catholic church accepts evolution. One of these days we will hear that this is why they tolerated so many pedophiles for so long.
///
| 391 |
ProUSA Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:07:09am |
Jeffrey Dahlmer lived in Wisconsin and ate people.
He also made chocolates and believed in evolution.
I live in Wisconsin, occasionally eat chocolates, believe in evolution, and send my kids to Catholic school where they are taught evolution.
It is only a matter of time before my first and second grade children start eating people, and I will have to find a way to live with that. But, it's Wisconsin -- it's what we do besides eat cheese, drink beer, and bowl. I can accept that.
| 392 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:25:41am |
re: #214 EEprom
"Now why would you say something stupid like that?"
Because it has been the predominently daily discussion for quite some time. Hardy a day goes by without a Evolution thread.
Creationism, like residual toilet excrement, can be quite stubborn. Sometimes it takes many flushings to get rid of it all.
| 393 |
eaglewingz08 Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:25:46am |
This is a ridiculous argument for teaching ID. Stalin was a monk, but that didn't mean that we should saddle the Russian Churches with his monstrosities.
| 394 |
leereyno Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:28:42am |
I'm reasonably sure that Jeffrey believe in the value of indoor plumbing as well.
It must be a very peculiar frame of mind to be a Creationist, to go through life determinedly denying reality and clinging to an indefensible belief system. Being a creationist must be a lot like being a leftist.
| 395 |
Ayeless in Ghazi Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:34:11am |
They're keeping their trump card under wraps for now - but I hear the creationists next publicity drive will expose the truth about Charles Darwin, Jack The Ripper and the murders in the Rue Morgue./
More on this later...
| 396 |
jcbunga Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:35:33am |
While I hate to judge before all the facts are in, it's beginning to look like Jeffrey Dahmer was f*ing crazy./
| 397 |
Nemesis6 Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:36:21am |
This is kind of like that crappy chainletter that originated from Malkin's site: "Check your credit card records for withdrawels by the Obama campaign". Scaremongering is what it's called.
| 398 |
dmjboose Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:00:50am |
you know what else leads to atheism? Newtonian mechanics. After all, it shows that God does not play an active role in our lives. Instead he is more like a silent observer.
| 399 |
J.S. Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:13:27am |
The author of the email quoting from the cannibal, Jeffrey Dahmer, is a (former?) language arts instructor...also, of note, is that Dahmer converted to Christianity while in prison...(was Dahmer reading anti-evolution evangelical material while in prison? Dahmer is quoted as alleging on a television program that he "came from the slime", and that he believed in evolution, etc., etc., presumably while doing his killing sprees, then, lo and behold! in prison he done "found religion!")
| 400 |
Oh no...Sand People! Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:14:09am |
Then on the flipside:
"I see your Dahmer and up you a Bundy."
Ted Bundy was LDS / 'Mormon'. I would dare say that makes him a 'creationist'. (Not in the Young Earth sense necessarily.)
| 401 |
Land Shark Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:22:02am |
Jeez, and these people are in charge of education in the state of Texas? When I see the lowlife shit creationists are resorting to these days to push their "let's shove a matter of faith into the science classroom" agenda I get really incensed.
I know you don't like people telling you what to do, Charles, but I do hope you keep exposing these idiots. The damage they can do to science education in the United States if they get their way cannot be understated.
| 402 |
davemanus Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:35:09am |
Well, maybe Dahmer just wanted to breed tastier people?
| 403 |
Salamantis Tue, Feb 3, 2009 9:34:11am |
Are all clowns serial murder suspects just because of John Wayne Gacy now?
| 404 |
medaura18586 Tue, Feb 3, 2009 9:37:07am |
re: #5 blangwort
It's similar to Guilt by Association. Just because someone declares he believes in something, and that person happens to be one of the most amoral asswipes that have ever lived, does not mean the idea is also as bad.
I'm sure Adolph Hitler thought many aspects of physics were quite useful too, though that has no relevance as to validity of those ideals.
Not to mention that if Creationists were to be held by the same ridiculous standards they apply to others, they would be in deep shit: How many innocents have historically been burned at the stake, tortured, and massacred in the name of Christianity? Creationist Stooges, please, for your own skake, just don't go there!
| 405 |
Salamantis Tue, Feb 3, 2009 9:42:10am |
re: #380 Salamantis
I can see where some Christians would be having problems here. They believe in a just and fair God, and believe that all souls who turn their face to Him will be redeemed. When presented with the alternatives of either having their God damn people who are just too dumb to get it, but are otherwise of good heart and actions, or having to accept that people who are unable to grasp the message, some of whom we may care for very deeply, lack souls, and are merely zombies, I can fully understand them choosing the alternative that even a naive or obtuse understanding of the faith is enough, provided that the heart is true.
But what I cannot understand are those who profess to believe, have the capacity to understand the message, and nevertheless do not make it a point to do so. To me, that seems to be a pretty hypocritical way to approach what are supposed to be matters of ultimate concern.
After some thought, I've decided that, rather than 'hypocritical', the more precise descriptor here is 'insincere.' Although the two terms are far from mutually exclusive in this case.
/I also corrected some late night typos in my quoted post
| 406 |
calcajun Tue, Feb 3, 2009 10:21:04am |
Silly people. Dahmer's pedigree is all WRONG. Bedsides, he wore white after Labor Day and served white wine with red meat. Shocking.\
This is about as bad as fluoridation of water = a commie plot to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids.
| 407 |
Ty85719 Tue, Feb 3, 2009 10:41:50am |
I suppose the "logic" of linking these 2 figures is as "logical" as creationism and intelligent design, so this story isn't that shocking.
Adolph Hitler and Charles Darmwin both had hair, drank water, and ate food...think about it! Surely, this must link them both to a dubious, evil mindset.
| 408 |
Zimriel Tue, Feb 3, 2009 12:47:22pm |
re: #403 Salamantis
Are all clowns serial murder suspects just because of John Wayne Gacy now?
They all FLOAT... down HERE
/pennywise
| 409 |
sprucepinehollow Tue, Feb 3, 2009 5:08:47pm |
The implication that since Dahmer believed in evolution, all evolutionists are cannibal murderers is nonsense.
However, atheists do have a problem in the general area of ethics. If there is no transcendent lawgiver, then we are left to our own opinions, and everything from child porn to terrorist acts can be described as moral by someone. Anything, I mean anything can be justified. Right, wrong, up, down, good, bad... all becomes subject to the constructs of individuals or societies.
BTW, this is my first post here, but I've been reading for about a month. Great site and great discussion!
| 410 |
wrenchwench Tue, Feb 3, 2009 5:17:28pm |
re: #409 sprucepinehollow
However, atheists do have a problem in the general area of ethics. If there is no transcendent lawgiver, then we are left to our own opinions, and everything from child porn to terrorist acts can be described as moral by someone. Anything, I mean anything can be justified. Right, wrong, up, down, good, bad... all becomes subject to the constructs of individuals or societies.
So with a transcendent lawgiver, we are not left to our own opinions, and everybody agrees on what is and is not moral, is that right?
Watch out for those roving bands of atheist cannibals....
| 412 |
sprucepinehollow Tue, Feb 3, 2009 5:30:50pm |
wenchwrench: Thanks for the welcome! Pardon my ignorance, but how did you do the re:# with a link back to the post?
Is a world with a transcendent lawgiver any better than a world without one? I believe the answer is "yes." People will always have opinions (opinions are like armpits, every one has two, and most of them smell bad.) If a transcendent being truly exists that is good, wise, unchanging and all knowing, then we at least have some reasonable hope for knowing what is right, even if we don't do it.
I guess that's my opinion.
That's not to say that atheist don't do things that many people describe as good. It's just absurd when they insist that anything is good... or evil.
| 414 |
wrenchwench Tue, Feb 3, 2009 5:42:51pm |
re: #412 sprucepinehollow
wenchwrench: Thanks for the welcome! Pardon my ignorance, but how did you do the re:# with a link back to the post?
Is a world with a transcendent lawgiver any better than a world without one? I believe the answer is "yes." People will always have opinions (opinions are like armpits, every one has two, and most of them smell bad.) If a transcendent being truly exists that is good, wise, unchanging and all knowing, then we at least have some reasonable hope for knowing what is right, even if we don't do it.
I guess that's my opinion.
That's not to say that atheist don't do things that many people describe as good. It's just absurd when they insist that anything is good... or evil.
Look at the header of a comment: Under the commenter's nic are the date and time, and in blue it says "reply" and "quote". If you click "reply", it works like in my #411. If you click "quote," it looks like this comment. In my #410, I used "reply," then copied and pasted some of your words, and made them into a block quote using the tools just above the box where you type your comment (the gray icons for strike, bold, italics, quotation, and link.)
As for your opinion,
If a transcendent being truly exists that is good, wise, unchanging and all knowing, then we at least have some reasonable hope for knowing what is right, even if we don't do it.
that initial "If" is the hurdle that prevents an atheist from agreeing with you. It has to be taken on faith. Faith is not something one can build a constitution upon, if it is to serve a diverse nation. If we were a theocracy, then maybe. Is that what you would prefer?
| 415 |
sprucepinehollow Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:29:40pm |
re: #414 wrenchwench
Thanks for the pointer.
I agree, that "if" is a major hurdle, but one that I'm not really trying to jump. I can't agree with the idea that faith is the only path to God... but again, that's not my point.
Many of the authors of the constitution were deists and Christian theists and some of their ideas can be traced back to those worldviews. Yet they were able to write a constitution that continues to serve a nation more diverse than I think they ever imagined.
Good question on the theocracy. I'd use up the rest of my space and bore you to death answering it.
My main point is that a world without a god is absolutely absurd, yet atheists insist certain things such as science, ethics, global warming, you name it are important and god forbid, good or bad.
If we are isolated life forms stuck on an infinitely small speck, infinitely separated from any other life forms, what could possibly matter? You have your reality. Be happy with it and let me have mine... conservative, liberal, creationist, murderer whatever. If we nuke ourselves to hell and back we are just doing what is natural to our species.
My other main point (hah) is that atheists cant' seem to function without borrowing from god followers... either in ethics, communication or meta narratives. I even read today in National Geographic about the "scripture" of DNA. Interesting... and inconsistent.
I just figured out the karma thing. I'm at negative one. That's hilarious. Wenchwrench, do I thank you for putting me in the hole already? I'm doomed to be reincarnated as a cockroach. Sorry abut the length.
| 416 |
Salamantis Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:46:01pm |
re: #409 sprucepinehollow
The implication that since Dahmer believed in evolution, all evolutionists are cannibal murderers is nonsense.
However, atheists do have a problem in the general area of ethics. If there is no transcendent lawgiver, then we are left to our own opinions, and everything from child porn to terrorist acts can be described as moral by someone. Anything, I mean anything can be justified. Right, wrong, up, down, good, bad... all becomes subject to the constructs of individuals or societies.
Not so fast; people here have faced such grauitous and illegitimate name-calling before, and know that it doesn't apply. Buddhists are nontheistic, as are Taoists and Confucians, and yet they have created quite praiseworthy ethical systems. Then there's the work of contemporary science and philosophy:
[Link: pinker.wjh.harvard.edu...]
And it was the philosopher Immanuel Kant who came up with the ethical principles of reversability and universalizability.
BTW, this is my first post here, but I've been reading for about a month. Great site and great discussion!
You should've read more deeply, and then you might have seen these points before.
| 417 |
Salamantis Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:55:49pm |
re: #412 sprucepinehollow
wenchwrench: Thanks for the welcome! Pardon my ignorance, but how did you do the re:# with a link back to the post?
Is a world with a transcendent lawgiver any better than a world without one? I believe the answer is "yes." People will always have opinions (opinions are like armpits, every one has two, and most of them smell bad.) If a transcendent being truly exists that is good, wise, unchanging and all knowing, then we at least have some reasonable hope for knowing what is right, even if we don't do it.
I guess that's my opinion.
That's not to say that atheist don't do things that many people describe as good. It's just absurd when they insist that anything is good... or evil.
Religions appropriated their ethical principles either from the societies in which they arose, or from older faiths that, in turn, distilled their ethical principles from the common moralities prevalent in their cultures.
There are slightly different moral conceptions for different religions that arose in different geographies, but they mostly tend to agree on the undesirability of such things as incest, necrophilia, bestiality, cannibalism, murder, theft, fraud, lying, etc. This is because wherever a religion arises, it is among people, and human beings everywhere find themselves surrounded by consciously aware others similar to but not the same as themselves, sharing a place with finite space and resources, and desire to coexist in peace, liberty and prosperity with them.
| 418 |
Salamantis Tue, Feb 3, 2009 9:05:42pm |
re: #415 sprucepinehollow
Thanks for the pointer.
I agree, that "if" is a major hurdle, but one that I'm not really trying to jump. I can't agree with the idea that faith is the only path to God... but again, that's not my point.
Many of the authors of the constitution were deists and Christian theists and some of their ideas can be traced back to those worldviews. Yet they were able to write a constitution that continues to serve a nation more diverse than I think they ever imagined.
Good question on the theocracy. I'd use up the rest of my space and bore you to death answering it.
My main point is that a world without a god is absolutely absurd, yet atheists insist certain things such as science, ethics, global warming, you name it are important and god forbid, good or bad.
If we are isolated life forms stuck on an infinitely small speck, infinitely separated from any other life forms, what could possibly matter? You have your reality. Be happy with it and let me have mine... conservative, liberal, creationist, murderer whatever. If we nuke ourselves to hell and back we are just doing what is natural to our species.
My other main point (hah) is that atheists cant' seem to function without borrowing from god followers... either in ethics, communication or meta narratives. I even read today in National Geographic about the "scripture" of DNA. Interesting... and inconsistent.
I just figured out the karma thing. I'm at negative one. That's hilarious. Wenchwrench, do I thank you for putting me in the hole already? I'm doomed to be reincarnated as a cockroach. Sorry abut the length.
Ethics and morality do not have to be supernaturally imposed upon human beings by some transcendental metaphysical deity in order to possess human (as oppsed to cosmic) meaning. Ethics can, and has, arisen and emerged from our own awareness of our existential situation as having come into a world filled with conscious and spatiotemporally finite others like ourselves, and the drive for each of us to cooperate in realizing our own individually chosen life projects with a minimum of hindrance from intrusive others, while refusing to interfere with their nonintrusive choices in return. In fact, Hegel's master-slave dialectic is transcended in the synthesis of the rugged individual - a citizen of secular constitutional democracies - who both refuses to enslave others and refuses to be enslaved by them.
| 419 |
wrenchwench Wed, Feb 4, 2009 9:02:43am |
re: #415 sprucepinehollow
I just figured out the karma thing. I'm at negative one. That's hilarious. Wenchwrench, do I thank you for putting me in the hole already? I'm doomed to be reincarnated as a cockroach. Sorry abut the length.
You can see who has "dinged" you by clicking on the number next to the minus sign in the comment header. You can see who has dinged anyone else, and who has dinged a front page article, too. You'll see I have only given you a "+" on one comment, and no "-".
My other main point (hah) is that atheists cant' seem to function without borrowing from god followers... either in ethics, communication or meta narratives.
Salamantis is more knowledgeable and far more patient than I am in discussing this topic. I can't say that I acquired my ethics independent of religion, because I am a lapsed Catholic. I don't think I am any more or less moral as a non-believer than I was as a church-attending believer. You may think differently.
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