Morphed

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
Science • Tue Feb 3, 2009 at 5:54 pm PST • Views: 4,128

Coming up this weekend on the National Geographic Channel, Morphed, a show about the documented evolutionary changes that gradually transformed land-dwelling mammals into whales, dinosaurs into turkeys, and bears into … better bears. The website for the show has some very cool graphics and videos. Set your TiVos and EyeTVs. (Warning: creationists should not watch; cognitive dissonance may occur.)

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644 comments

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1 coquimbojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 5:56:26pm

The flood distributed the fossils. This evolution stuff is just a theory...


/

2 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 5:56:52pm

Maisey the Parrot. Now I know why she scream "what" all the time. I was a dino, "what!"

3 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 5:57:20pm
4 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 5:57:24pm

re: #1 coquimbojoe

The flood distributed the fossils. This evolution stuff is just a theory...

/

We already have a troll. Geeessshhh.
/

5 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 5:57:31pm

I believe the top one is pronounced "Pah-KEE-cetus".

/0

6 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 5:58:16pm

Maisey the Parrot - 20 years ago.

7 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 5:58:23pm
8 lawhawk  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 5:58:52pm

And then, man evolved... and became a Lizard...

9 phoenixgirl  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 5:59:19pm

i saw the commercial, i think the turkey got screwed

10 phoenixgirl  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:00:23pm

it started as this gigantic ferocious dino and now we eat it at thanksgiving

11 VioletTiger  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:00:34pm

Feb. issue of National Geographic has a good evolution article.

12 logboy  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:00:46pm

Sacrilege!

13 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:01:11pm
14 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:01:12pm

I'm shocked ... shocked! ... that Fox News allowed such a heretical advertisement on their channel.

15 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:01:31pm

re: #10 phoenixgirl

it started as this gigantic ferocious dino and now we eat it at thanksgiving

Karma maaan.
/

16 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:01:55pm

"I didn't come from no damn Pakicetus!"
/

17 jcm  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:01:59pm

But there are gaps it doesn't prove anything!
/

18 ParanoidPyro  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:02:02pm

But the important question is, did these animals cannibalize each other?

19 Doubleview  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:02:06pm

Sadly, evolution also seems to apply to politics. We are entering the Age of Blood-Sucking Ticks and Roaches.

20 winston06  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:02:26pm

freaking amazing and mind boggling!

21 jcm  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:02:29pm

re: #16 Bloodnok

"I didn't come from no damn Pakicetus!"
/

I knew Pakicetus, and you sir are no Pakicetus!

22 DEZes  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:02:48pm

re: #9 phoenixgirl

i saw the commercial, i think the turkey got screwed

Should have stayed away from Bill Clinton.
;)

23 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:03:02pm

re: #21 jcm

I knew Pakicetus, and you sir are no Pakicetus!

That's what your wife said! (rimshot)
///

24 logboy  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:03:21pm

re: #9 phoenixgirl

i saw the commercial, i think the turkey got screwed

If you think the turkey got screwed, check out the dog screwing the duck.

25 winston06  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:03:31pm

re: #9 phoenixgirl

hello phoenixgirl! ;-)

26 BryanS  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:03:31pm

re: #8 lawhawk

And then, man evolved... and became a Lizard...

Or a retarded fish frog

27 researchok  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:03:40pm

"Cognitive dissonance may occur."
That has to be the best line I've heard in a month.

28 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:03:47pm
29 notutopia  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:03:49pm

re: #14 Charles

You are watching FOX ? I haven't felt the earth move here yet...

30 jaunte  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:04:09pm

That's very nicely done interactive section on the National Geographic website.
Pakicetus looks like it was filling the niche taken over by hyenas.

31 gmsc  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:04:10pm

Pakicetus . . . Betray us?

32 winston06  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:04:18pm

re: #29 notutopia

Mark Steyn is on Hannity show tonight

33 phoenixgirl  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:04:21pm

re: #24 logboy

If you think the turkey got screwed, check out the dog screwing the duck.

omg, i thought you were kidding! why did i click? animal pron!/

34 godfrey  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:04:21pm

I kinda miss webbing.

35 DEZes  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:04:48pm

re: #24 logboy

If you think the turkey got screwed, check out the dog screwing the duck.

He sure didnt think she was an ugly duckling.
:)

36 phoenixgirl  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:04:52pm

re: #25 winston06

'ello winston!

37 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:04:57pm
38 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:05:06pm

Bill O'Reilly admits he said those words:

Well, you know you copied that correctly off whatever far left website you hang out on, sir. And it's a fact, it's what the Times is trying to do, break down the white Christian male power structure in the country. Senator McCain and I are part of that structure. So what's the beef? I'm speaking the truth, not endorsing the structure, or party or policy. For that I'm a racist? You're a misguided person who needs to wise up.

Ohhhkay.

39 winston06  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:05:10pm

re: #37 buzzsawmonkey

lol

40 winston06  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:05:24pm

re: #38 Charles

he just did

41 notutopia  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:05:32pm

re: #32 winston06

Thanks. I'll tune in.

42 winston06  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:05:42pm

re: #41 notutopia

he is on right now!

43 logboy  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:06:07pm

re: #38 Charles

Bill O'Reilly admits he said those words:

Ohhhkay.

I'm beginning to think that, all recent events aside, you don't like O'Reilly.

44 jaunte  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:06:52pm

re: #38 Charles

"Sir" he spat, with an Olbermann spin.

45 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:07:40pm

re: #38 Charles

Bill O'Reilly admits he said those words:

Ohhhkay.

Wise up? You've got to be kidding me.

"You, sir, need to straighten up and fly right."
"You, sir, need to park your keester, meester."

46 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:07:43pm

re: #38 Charles

Bill O'Reilly admits he said those words:


Ohhhkay.

I have never liked populists.

47 lawhawk  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:08:01pm

re: #38 Charles

And now Ben Stein backs out of a commencement speech because of his ID position? What planetary alignment just happened?

48 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:08:10pm
49 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:08:13pm

6000 years! I have proof!

50 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:08:40pm

re: #38 Charles

Don't recall anyone here calling him a racist. A liar, a narcissist, and a bloviater maybe, but not a racist.

51 Spiny Norman  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:08:49pm

re: #43 logboy

I'm beginning to think that, all recent events aside, you don't like O'Reilly.

I don't think anyone but O'Reilly likes O'Reilly.

52 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:09:18pm

re: #48 Charles

O'Reilly: Rather was 'Slimed'.

And the 4 American contracters that were murdered, burned, and dragged thru the street in Iraq were "wannabes."

53 coquimbojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:09:20pm

re: #4 Walter L. Newton

We already have a troll. Geeessshhh.
/

Trolls are part of the evolutionary ladder too.

/

54 winston06  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:09:25pm

re: #50 Slumbering Behemoth

NYT did

55 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:09:40pm

I'm wondering if I'll see my X on that show.

56 jcm  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:10:05pm

re: #48 Charles

O'Reilly: Rather was 'Slimed'.

Rather wasn't slimed...
He was trobbed!

Big difference.

57 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:10:18pm

...But how did they all fit on the Ark?

58 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:10:25pm
59 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:10:32pm

More information on the National Press Club "racialist" conference O'Reilly was defending:

[Link: www.splcenter.org...]

Note this part:

Also on the panel is Marcus Epstein, executive director of The American Cause and Team America PAC, which gives money to anti-immigration candidates and is chaired by Bay Buchanan. Epstein also writes for Vdare. Like Brimelow, he is fond of Jared Taylor and American Renaissance and has attended the journal’s biannual conferences. In 2006, Epstein invited Taylor to a group he had just founded, The Robert A. Taft Club, to speak on the issue of “Race and Conservatism.” In February 2006, Epstein’s group also hosted two members of a racist and anti-immigrant Belgian party, Vlaams Belang. In 2004, an earlier incarnation of the Vlaams Belang, Vlaams Blok, was banned on the grounds that it incited racial hatred.

60 FrogMarch  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:10:32pm

re: #48 Charles

O'Reilly: Rather was 'Slimed'.

The man really has some serious blind spots. He slimes bloggers all the time too - which pisses me off. (That and today on Fox, Shepard Smith had a small segment on Joe the plumber's new journalism gig. NO mention of Pajamas Media.)

61 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:10:36pm

re: #32 winston06

Mark Steyn is on Hannity show tonight

Who the hell wants to watch Hannity?

62 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:10:47pm

re: #56 jcm

Rather wasn't slimed...
He was trobbed!

Big difference.

He'd have to be de-slimed before he could be slimed.

63 jaunte  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:10:48pm

"All famous and successful Americans are now targets."
(I could be next!)
"Unfair freedom of speech did him in."
(I could be next!)
-- Bill O'Reilly

64 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:10:57pm

re: #54 winston06

NYT did

They were here? I said typed that I don't recall anyone here calling him a racist.

65 DEZes  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:11:09pm

re: #57 Killgore Trout

...But how did they all fit on the Ark?

Honey, I shrunk the kids animals.

66 Spiny Norman  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:11:12pm

re: #52 Hard Right

re: #48 Charles

O'Reilly: Rather was 'Slimed'.

And the 4 American contracters that were murdered, burned, and dragged thru the street in Iraq were "wannabes."

I believe one could reasonably assume O'Reilly is an ass.

/obvious

67 logboy  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:11:12pm

re: #51 Spiny Norman

I don't think anyone but O'Reilly likes O'Reilly.

I'd like to voice my personal thoughts on O'Reilly, but since I can already see where this discussion is going again...

68 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:11:49pm

re: #48 Charles

O'Reilly: Rather was 'Slimed'.

If I were a dog, I'd be howling right now.

69 winston06  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:11:56pm

re: #64 Slumbering Behemoth

I know. I am just saying he was responding to the morons in NYT

70 saberry0530  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:12:04pm

re: #3 buzzsawmonkey

Dinosaurs into turkeys?

No wonder the meat-eaters pay such raptor attention on Thanksgiving!

SO the dinosaurs went extinct because they ate too much turkey and never got up from the trytophan nap. I got now!

71 notutopia  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:12:39pm

re: #57 Killgore Trout

...But how did they all fit on the Ark?


Archaeologist, Randall Price, who is director of Liberty University's new Center for Judaic Studies will tell us when he finds the Ark. "But we believe it was an actual event."
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

72 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:12:41pm

re: #60 FrogMarch

The man really has some serious blind spots. He slimes bloggers all the time too - which pisses me off. (That and today on Fox, Shepard Smith had a small segment on Joe the plumber's new journalism gig. NO mention of Pajamas Media.)

Some of it is wanting to be considered part of the "elite" while wanting to be beloved by the unwashed masses.

73 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:12:55pm

re: #61 Walter L. Newton

Who the hell wants to watch Hannity?

I'd listen to anybody if it means listening to Steyn. Bring such smiles to my face. He's picked up where O'Rourke left off.

74 gmsc  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:13:12pm

re: #61 Walter L. Newton

Who the hell wants to watch Hannity?

Hey, on days you don't get to LGF, watching Hannity reveal "exclusive" stories is a great way to find out what Charles has been researching!
;)

75 nyc redneck  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:13:13pm

i saw a show on the south american river otter. they grow to be 7 ft. long and weigh 100 lbs.
they are truly aquatic mammals, webbed feet and big rudder of a tail.
it is a creature like this that 'morphed' into cetaceans (whales,porpoises) 40 million yrs. ago.
you can imagine it when you look at river otters and watch their behavior.

76 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:13:31pm

re: #71 notutopia

Archaeologist, Randall Price, who is director of Liberty University's new Center for Judaic Studies will tell us when he finds the Ark. "But we believe it was an actual event."
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Good luck with that.

77 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:14:01pm

re: #59 Charles

Ah, Bay Buchanan is Pat's sister. It's all starting to make sense.

78 jorline  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:14:17pm

re: #26 BryanS

Or a retarded fish frog

This is the other part of that clip.

79 jcw46  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:14:22pm

re: #48 Charles

O'Reilly: Rather was 'Slimed'.

Yeah, I remember that! That was when I started giving ol' bill the fish-eye and a search of his bio and such revealed; ... wait for it. A closet liberal! His conservative label is one that got hung on him when he spoke facts when the liberals wanted to hear fables. ergo: "he isn't favoring the liberals like all the other media whores, so he must be a CONSERVATIVE!"
Once more we find out that people we've been told are conservative are actually moderate liberals. And who told us; (altogether now) THE MFM!

80 zombie  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:14:26pm

How do all these fancy-shmancy graphics disprove the undisprovable thesis of

SPECiAL CREATION ?

Because every single one of these innumerable "transitional forms" could have been created by God each in a separate instance of "special creation" at the exact moment in the distant past to fool gullible 20th-century humans -- then placed by God cleverly way deep in the 6,000-year-old rocks, to trick the rationalists?

Special Creation is undefeatable! All bow before the impenetrable thesis!

81 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:14:52pm

re: #74 gmsc

Hey, on days you don't get to LGF, watching Hannity reveal "exclusive" stories is a great way to find out what Charles has been researching!
;)

Hey, I just thought of something, we don't have Skelator to push around anymore, maybe we should contact Fox and suggest a new team up...

Hannity and Avanti.

82 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:15:07pm

re: #71 notutopia

Noah's Ark is the most often found but still missing artifact in history. Someone finds it every few years.

83 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:15:10pm

re: #66 Spiny Norman

I believe one could reasonably assume O'Reilly is an ass.

/obvious

No. He's a populist ass. :) Cavuto handed him his ass on his cries of oil price gouging and he still acts as if nothing he said was disproven.

84 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:15:22pm

re: #75 nyc redneck

i saw a show on the south american river otter. they grow to be 7 ft. long and weigh 100 lbs.
they are truly aquatic mammals, webbed feet and big rudder of a tail.
it is a creature like this that 'morphed' into cetaceans (whales,porpoises) 40 million yrs. ago.
you can imagine it when you look at river otters and watch their behavior.

I otter do that sometime.

85 lostlakehiker  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:15:28pm

And hominins into better hominins. But humans occupy a unique niche---it's a behavioral niche more than a matter of climate and diet. Still, in small ways we see the process at work on us.

Large noses serve to preserve body heat and hydration. They're pointless (yes, it's a pun) in warm, moist climates. Guess who has long, protuberant schnozzes and who has squat, wide nostrils?

Tibetans and their cousins in Nepal, the Sherpas, do better at high altitude than the rest of us, with the partial exception of some Amerinds from the Altiplano. The Amerind high-altitude people have had less time to evolve an adaptation to thin air, and they aren't as far along in the process as the Tibetans.

There are pearl diver communities. Training aside, they can hold their breath longer than the rest of us. A lot longer.

Chinese can more easily digest starch. Cattle-herding peoples from Africa, Asia, and Europe are lactose tolerant for the most part, and most adults can drink cow's milk without difficulty. Other African populations, many Amerinds, and most Chinese, don't tolerate lactose well as adults.

If it weren't for the central fact that our biological niche is primarily that of social tool users with a strong penchant for exogamy, we'd be evolving our separate ways under the influence of such diverse evolutionary pressures. Instead, all these variations tend to get folded back into the main body of humanity, where they become part of the repertoire of the whole species.

86 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:15:31pm
87 lawhawk  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:16:07pm

re: #82 Killgore Trout

Noah's Ark is the most often found but still missing artifact in history. Someone finds it every few years.

Ditto for the Ark of the Covenant. I think I found it once... hiding out among the boxes at Area 51.

88 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:16:32pm

re: #82 Killgore Trout

Noah's Ark is the most often found but still missing artifact in history. Someone finds it every few years.

It's on Mount Ararat. I've seen pictures.

89 The Other Les  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:17:05pm

re: #7 buzzsawmonkey

When Better Bears are Built...Evolution Will Build Them

Don't tell that to the Cylon Corporation.

90 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:17:22pm

re: #87 lawhawk

Some guys in Ethiopia claim to have it in a mud hut but they won't show it to anybody.

91 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:17:26pm
92 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:17:43pm

[/Charlton Heston voice]

"A planet where turkeys evolved from dinosaurs?... It's a madhouse, MADHOUSE!"

93 FrogMarch  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:17:51pm

re: #38 Charles

Saying - "white Christian male power structure" is just plain creepy.
Sure- the libs like to target "Christians" - usually idiots like Rosie O'Donnell who have zero credibility. but seriously - The O man is heading into dangerous territory with that rhetoric.

94 jcw46  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:18:30pm

re: #57 Killgore Trout

...But how did they all fit on the Ark?

Turns out G!d's cubit is not equal to 18 inches or so. It's 18 kilometers. (you know like the second = a thousand years deal)

95 gmsc  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:18:44pm

re: #87 lawhawk

Ditto for the Ark of the Covenant. I think I found it once... hiding out among the boxes at Area 51.

It could have been carried!

/Are you suggesting Arks migrate?

96 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:19:19pm

re: #66 Spiny Norman

I believe one could reasonably assume O'Reilly is an ass.

/obvious

re: #83 Hard Right

No. He's a populist ass. :) Cavuto handed him his ass on his cries of oil price gouging and he still acts as if nothing he said was disproven.

Ok, I think I get it now. O'Reilly evolved from a popular jack-ass, er, donkey?

97 The Hoopster  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:19:21pm

re: #76 Charles

Good luck with that.

So you are saying a ship the size of a cruise ship won't be found on top of Mt Ararat?
Amazing..I'm betting the rats were the first off the Ark..just a guess..*wink*

98 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:19:27pm

re: #92 Occasional Reader

"Keep you hands off me you damn dirty ape!"
/

99 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:19:42pm
100 phoenixgirl  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:19:46pm

so are turkeys really evolved from dinosaurs or did they de-evolve? because really, turkeys got the raw end here

101 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:19:53pm

re: #93 FrogMarch

Saying - "white Christian male power structure" is just plain creepy.
Sure- the libs like to target "Christians" - usually idiots like Rosie O'Donnell who have zero credibility. but seriously - The O man is heading into dangerous territory with that rhetoric.

They are and have been going after white Christian males, but white Christian male power structure is a stupid choice of words. Too much time around pukecannon?

102 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:20:05pm

I'm a member of the mutt atheist transgendered lesbian power structure. I just let the white Christian males think they're running the show so they don't fuss.

103 FrogMarch  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:20:09pm

The first time I saw that "pakicetus" in a whale museum, I said to myself - no way!


Way.

104 itellu3times  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:20:11pm

I'll bet that pakicetus was a Nazi.

105 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:20:21pm

re: #87 lawhawk

Ditto for the Ark of the Covenant. I think I found it once... hiding out among the boxes at Area 51.

We can always count on you for Ark-ane knowledge.

106 gmsc  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:20:30pm

re: #98 Killgore Trout

"Keep you hands off me you damn dirty ape!"
/

107 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:20:39pm
108 JHW  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:20:44pm

re: #76 Charles

Charles, I left a comment, #432 on the previous thread noting that you have received some kudos from another publication for your work on Dan Rather's fake memos.

109 FrogMarch  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:21:15pm

re: #72 Hard Right

Some of it is wanting to be considered part of the "elite" while wanting to be beloved by the unwashed masses.

Exactly.

110 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:21:25pm

re: #104 itellu3times

I'll bet that pakicetus was a Nazi.

I think Durodon and I would get along. I'd like to think that.

111 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:22:06pm

re: #96 Slumbering Behemoth

Ok, I think I get it now. O'Reilly evolved from a popular jack-ass, er, donkey?

Well, part of one. The mouth evolved later.

Question: Two negatives equal a possitive, right?
If he's the ass of an ass does that make him the head?

112 FrogMarch  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:22:43pm

re: #104 itellu3times

I'll bet that pakicetus was a Nazi.

Driven to Nazism by Darwin no less.

113 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:22:56pm

re: #92 Occasional Reader

[/Charlton Heston voice]

"A planet where turkeys evolved from dinosaurs?... It's a madhouse, a MADHOUSE!"

Damn clumsy un-evolved fingers...

114 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:23:35pm

re: #87 lawhawk

Ditto for the Ark of the Covenant. I think I found it once... hiding out among the boxes at Area 51.

The Ark of the Covenant is in the GSA warehouse in Springfield VA.
Didn't anyone see the original Indiana Jones?

115 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:24:03pm

re: #80 zombie

How do all these fancy-shmancy graphics disprove the undisprovable thesis of

SPECiAL CREATION ?

Because every single one of these innumerable "transitional forms" could have been created by God each in a separate instance of "special creation" at the exact moment in the distant past to fool gullible 20th-century humans -- then placed by God cleverly way deep in the 6,000-year-old rocks, to trick the rationalists?

Special Creation is undefeatable! All bow before the impenetrable thesis!

I have the proof of Special Creation right here.

116 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:25:07pm
117 zombie  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:25:14pm

re: #85 lostlakehiker

And hominins into better hominins. But humans occupy a unique niche---it's a behavioral niche more than a matter of climate and diet. Still, in small ways we see the process at work on us.

Large noses serve to preserve body heat and hydration. They're pointless (yes, it's a pun) in warm, moist climates. Guess who has long, protuberant schnozzes and who has squat, wide nostrils?

Tibetans and their cousins in Nepal, the Sherpas, do better at high altitude than the rest of us, with the partial exception of some Amerinds from the Altiplano. The Amerind high-altitude people have had less time to evolve an adaptation to thin air, and they aren't as far along in the process as the Tibetans.

There are pearl diver communities. Training aside, they can hold their breath longer than the rest of us. A lot longer.

Chinese can more easily digest starch. Cattle-herding peoples from Africa, Asia, and Europe are lactose tolerant for the most part, and most adults can drink cow's milk without difficulty. Other African populations, many Amerinds, and most Chinese, don't tolerate lactose well as adults.

If it weren't for the central fact that our biological niche is primarily that of social tool users with a strong penchant for exogamy, we'd be evolving our separate ways under the influence of such diverse evolutionary pressures. Instead, all these variations tend to get folded back into the main body of humanity, where they become part of the repertoire of the whole species.

Excellent comment. The different races have indeed been folded back into each other several times, after first evolving in semi-isolation, probably about 200,000 -20,000 years ago, in that range.

Another interesting evolutionary detail of modern humans is that populations that lived in areas where alcohol was not discovered or distilled until fairly recently either because of cold climate that was inhospitable to fermentable starches, or because of inappropriate local fauna-- in particular, Scandinavia, Arctic Russia, and the New World -- did not evolve the ability to "hold their liquor" the way that other populations did which discovered alcohol earlier. (Basically, one needs about 5,000 years of drunken teenagers killing themselves to rid the "easily soused" gene from the population through "Darwin Award"-style evolution.) As a result, Russians, northern Scandinavians and Native Americans to this day are prone to alcoholism to a far greater degree than other populations. Its really not their fault -- it is genetic.

118 screaming_eagle  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:25:20pm

re: #114 Jim in Virginia

The Ark of the Covenant is in the GSA warehouse in Springfield VA.
Didn't anyone see the original Indiana Jones?

That was pre-Bush. You know that Bush moved it somewhere else hoping Obama wouldn't be able to find it.

119 gmsc  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:25:33pm

re: #89 The Other Les

Don't tell that to the Cylon Corporation.

Ladies and gentlemen, Cylon & Garfunkel!

120 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:25:42pm

re: #114 Jim in Virginia

The Ark of the Covenant is in the GSA warehouse in Springfield VA.
Didn't anyone see the original Indiana Jones?

Yes, but Noah's ark was found by my senile Great grandfather back in Illinois. He used it for firewood. Sorry folks, it's gone. I do have some genuine Noah's Ark ashes if anyone is interested.
///

121 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:26:28pm

Anyone else notice that Obama has been President ten days and gas prices are up fifteen cents a gallon?

122 talon_262  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:26:47pm

re: #48 Charles

O'Reilly: Rather was 'Slimed'.

As opposed to O'Reilly being a slime...

123 phoenixgirl  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:26:49pm

re: #121 Jim in Virginia

Anyone else notice that Obama has been President ten days and gas prices are up fifteen cents a gallon?

yes

124 3 wood  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:27:02pm

OT:

Uh oh. Roger Clemens has himself a big legal problem:

Report: Clemens' DNA in syringes

WASHINGTON -- Tests have linked Roger Clemens' DNA to blood in syringes that his former personal trainer says he used to inject the pitcher with performance-enhancing drugs, according to a report.

Citing two unidentified sources familiar with the investigation, The Washington Post reported Tuesday that the DNA results are preliminary and subject to verification tests. The newspaper said Clemens voluntarily gave a DNA sample to federal authorities, according to the sources, and it still remains to be determined whether the syringes ever contained steroids or human growth hormone.

The test results could prove important to the investigation into whether Clemens lied under oath to Congress last year when he denied using steroids or HGH.

Prosecutors have asked a federal grand jury in Washington to decide whether to indict the seven-time Cy Young Award winner. Brian McNamee has told federal agents, baseball investigator George Mitchell and a House of Representatives committee that he injected Clemens more than a dozen times with steroids and HGH from 1998-2001.

Clemens' lawyer, Rusty Hardin, told the Post that the DNA testing "won't matter at all."

"It will still be evidence fabricated by McNamee," Hardin was quoted as saying. "I would be dumbfounded if any responsible person ever found this to be reliable or credible evidence in any way."

So far everything McNamee has said has been proven out. and Everything Clemens has said has been a pile of crap.

Roger may get in some innings with the prison team.

125 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:27:12pm

re: #108 JHW

Charles, I left a comment, #432 on the previous thread noting that you have received some kudos from another publication for your work on Dan Rather's fake memos.

Thanks. Taranto is a mensch.

126 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:27:38pm

OT

David Letterman roughed up ex-Gov. Blagojevich in his interview with him tonight. Here's the first exchange after his introduction:

DL: “Why exactly are you here? Honest to God…”

RB: “Well, you know, I’ve been wanting to be on your show in the worst way for the longest…”

DL: “Well, you’re on in the worst way.”

Drudge

127 screaming_eagle  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:27:40pm

re: #121 Jim in Virginia

Anyone else notice that Obama has been President ten days and gas prices are up fifteen cents a gallon?

But the real question is-- When is the price of COAL gonna spike?

128 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:27:42pm
129 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:27:45pm

re: #115 MandyManners

I have the proof of Special Creation right here.

Well *I* have proof of Special Creation right here.

130 BryanS  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:28:03pm

re: #116 taxfreekiller

Of some note:

We have 50 blue dog Democrats now pissed at the commie loon environmental wacko Pelosi, they have gone on the record and signed a letter to her, she is way pissed off, Obama is mad as hell, Reid is said to have called a meeting,

now these 50 are not all the same names as the 10 or so who vote against this pork stimulus bill,

So, we have looks like 60 blue dog Democrats in the house who see the writing on the wall about Obama and his loony environmental, cut and run anti war commie Democrats.

We are going to work them hard on throwing Pelosi over board and vote in a Real American or at least some one with 1/2 a brain as Speaker.

developing now


I just don't see what the Dhimicrats see in Pelosi. She has been an unmitigated failure. She holds up the first stimulus bill by ranting on the day of the vote how the bill was all the fault of Republicans, none of the legislation she espouses is enacted in the Senate, she divides her caucus, she has bug eyes, etc

As much as I do not like Reid, he was at least able to advance an agenda. Pelosi is just a farce of a politician.

131 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:28:17pm

re: #121 Jim in Virginia

Anyone else notice that Obama has been President ten days and gas prices are up fifteen cents a gallon?

I noticed that and how he did nothing for thousands of people in Kentucky even after a full week of them having no power and electricity.
Obama hates white people!
///

132 coquimbojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:28:30pm

re: #115 MandyManners

I have the proof of Special Creation right here.

I think this picture right here proves some people at least were descended from chimps...

133 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:28:33pm
134 gmsc  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:28:34pm

re: #89 The Other Les

Don't tell that to the Cylon Corporation.

Geez, the 0bama administration is even putting Cylons out of work:

135 jorline  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:28:35pm

re: #120 Hard Right

Yes, but Noah's ark was found by my senile Great grandfather back in Illinois. He used it for firewood. Sorry folks, it's gone. I do have some genuine Noah's Ark ashes if anyone is interested.
///

I bought some last week on eBay.

136 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:28:52pm

re: #60 FrogMarch

The man really has some serious blind spots. He slimes bloggers all the time too - which pisses me off. (That and today on Fox, Shepard Smith had a small segment on Joe the plumber's new journalism gig. NO mention of Pajamas Media.)

Don't expect them to ever get mentioned in a positive way again, they are now competing in Fox's space, and Fox billboards for themselves by attacking their competitors. Be prepared for worse, it's a business and PJTV is going after their slice.

137 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:28:52pm

re: #124 3 wood

That made my day!

138 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:28:54pm
139 coquimbojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:29:15pm

re: #129 Occasional Reader

Well *I* have proof of Special Creation right here.

I believe!

140 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:30:07pm

re: #47 lawhawk

And now Ben Stein backs out of a commencement speech because of his ID position? What planetary alignment just happened?

None too happy either. Blowback's a bitch.

141 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:30:11pm

re: #128 buzzsawmonkey
Cold Fusion and Perpetual motion.
Plus some alchemical gold from lead.

142 jcm  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:30:19pm

re: #132 coquimbojoe

I think this picture right here proves some people at least were descended from chimps...

Are you happy to see me, or do you have pigeons in you pants!
/ ;-P

Hey Joe!

143 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:30:25pm

re: #124 3 wood

OT:

Uh oh. Roger Clemens has himself a big legal problem:

Report: Clemens' DNA in syringes


So far everything McNamee has said has been proven out. and Everything Clemens has said has been a pile of crap.

Roger may get in some innings with the prison team.

Then he'll get "injected" in a different way.

144 notutopia  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:30:32pm

re: #132 coquimbojoe

I think this picture right here proves some people at least were descended from chimps...

My goodness...he needs to do a commercial for Neat.

145 coquimbojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:30:44pm

re: #138 taxfreekiller

zombie,

We Apache would not agree with you on this one thing.

Please do not use the "Native American Lost because they were all drunks"

Thank you,
an APACHEWHOKNOWS

Apache?

146 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:31:03pm

re: #117 zombie


Basically, one needs about 5,000 years of drunken teenagers killing themselves to rid the "easily soused" gene from the population through "Darwin Award"-style evolution.

Now they just use skateboards for a similar effect.

147 coquimbojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:31:29pm

re: #142 jcm

Are you happy to see me, or do you have pigeons in you pants!
/ ;-P

Hey Joe!

Hey there sir! The answer to both is, 'Yes'. Anyone got a problem with that?

148 3 wood  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:31:40pm

re: #135 jorline

I bought some last week on eBay.

I'd be happy to sell you some genuine Big Foot droppings as well then.

They look amazingly like a big chocolate Lab's droppings too.

149 jcm  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:31:42pm

re: #141 Jim in Virginia

Cold Fusion and Perpetual motion.
Plus some alchemical gold from lead.

Don't diss turning lead into gold...

150 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:31:49pm

re: #135 jorline

I bought some last week on eBay.

That was fake ashes. Mine are genuine. I mean, would God lie?
///

151 jcm  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:32:40pm

re: #147 coquimbojoe

Hey there sir! The answer to both is, 'Yes'. Anyone got a problem with that?

LOL!

152 gmsc  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:33:20pm

re: #146 Slumbering Behemoth

Now they just use skateboards for a similar effect.

Fry: "What's 'deathrolling'?"

Village leader: "It's like skateboarding, except half of the time, someone dies!"

Fry: "So, it's safer than skateboarding."

153 jorline  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:33:25pm

re: #124 3 wood

That could be a three to five year, no cut or trade, contract.

154 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:33:27pm

The first dinger-down: dcbatlle.

Expect followup ding-downs from sadatoni, arizona9, Gozer the Carpathian, and opiemuyo.

The silent, pissed off creationists.

155 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:33:29pm

re: #147 coquimbojoe

Hey there sir! The answer to both is, 'Yes'. Anyone got a problem with that?

Pigeons? Hah! I have Condors in mine.

156 lawhawk  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:34:02pm

re: #107 buzzsawmonkey

Why? Trouble a-bruin?

Naw, you just might find yourself airlocked...

157 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:34:14pm

re: #138 taxfreekiller

zombie,

We Apache would not agree with you on this one thing.

Please do not use the "Native American Lost because they were all drunks"

Thank you,
an APACHEWHOKNOWS

The Sioux chose to live in the Great Plains, with stone age outerwear and no central heating. And you're telling me they weren't drunk?

158 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:34:16pm

re: #120 Hard Right

Yes, but Noah's ark was found by my senile Great grandfather back in Illinois. He used it for firewood. Sorry folks, it's gone. I do have some genuine Noah's Ark ashes if anyone is interested.
///

I think what you've found is instead Noah's Sark.
/let the groaning begin

159 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:34:28pm
160 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:34:41pm
161 3 wood  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:34:54pm

re: #137 Bloodnok

That made my day!

Well then, enjoy this too:


Report: Retested Bonds sample positive

A urine sample that Barry Bonds submitted as part of Major League Baseball's anonymous testing program in 2003 has come back positive for PEDs, according to a New York Times report.

Bonds provided samples that did not test positive under that program, but the samples were re-examined by federal authorities after they were seized in a 2004 raid, The Times reported on Tuesday, citing people familiar with the matter.

Citing a person who has reviewed the evidence in the case, The Times reported last week that authorities detected anabolic steroids in urine samples linked to Bonds that they gathered in their investigation. It remains unclear, the newspaper said, whether the '03 urine sample and the samples seized in the feds' raid in '04 are the same.

Bonds testified to a federal grand jury investigating the Bay Area Laboratory Co-Operative in 2003 that he used "the cream" and "the clear" but did not know they were performance-enhancing drugs. During that testimony, Bonds was asked if he ever took steroids, and he answered no.

The government alleges that Bonds lied under oath. His perjury trial is scheduled to begin March 2 in San Francisco.

Henry Aaron is still the home run champ in my book.

162 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:35:25pm

re: #93 FrogMarch

Saying - "white Christian male power structure" is just plain creepy.
Sure- the libs like to target "Christians" - usually idiots like Rosie O'Donnell who have zero credibility. but seriously - The O man is heading into dangerous territory with that rhetoric.

What's sad is thinking about the segment of his audience that agrees.

163 lawhawk  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:35:31pm

I guess we now know why so many foods taste like chicken... common ancestors... /ducking

164 jcm  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:35:41pm

re: #154 Charles

The first dinger-down: dcbatlle.

Expect followup ding-downs from sadatoni, arizona9, Gozer the Carpathian, and opiemuyo.

The silent, pissed off creationists.

The mouse crowd, the ones who are still wondering what that rectangular thingy with all the squiggly symbols attached to the computer is for.

165 3 wood  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:35:46pm

re: #153 jorline

That could be a three to five year, no cut or trade, contract.

No road trips though.

166 jorline  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:35:47pm

re: #148 3 wood

I'd be happy to sell you some genuine Big Foot droppings as well then.

They look amazingly like a big chocolate Lab's droppings too.

If they're anything like Labrador droppings I'm buying.

Roll one up and we'll smoke it.

167 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:35:47pm
168 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:35:50pm

re: #158 Slumbering Behemoth

I think what you've found is instead Noah's Sark.
/let the groaning begin

Kiss my ash. ;)

169 mikeymom  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:36:07pm

re: #154 Charles

The first dinger-down: dcbatlle.

Expect followup ding-downs from sadatoni, arizona9, Gozer the Carpathian, and opiemuyo.

The silent, pissed off creationists.


WHO? or as maisie would say-"WHAT"/

170 Look At My New Grandbaby!  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:36:11pm

Ambulocetus.

Did anybody read James Rollins' Ice Hunt? It's an action movie of a novel, but features ambulocetus arctans a very nasty, freeze-dried version of ambulocetus, and it eats people.

171 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:36:36pm

re: #104 itellu3times

I'll bet that pakicetus was a Nazi.

And a cannibal.

172 gmsc  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:36:46pm

re: #142 jcm

Are you happy to see me, or do you have pigeons in you pants!
/ ;-P

Hey Joe!

0bama is here to answer that very question!

173 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:37:02pm

re: #128 buzzsawmonkey

That's all right; soon I'll be able to stuff my gas tank with The Magical Solution Which Defies the Laws of Economics and Physics.

Whatever that may be.

Unicorn farts. My sources tell me it's gonna be unicorn farts, so invest now.

174 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:37:04pm

re: #133 buzzsawmonkey

That's quite a Silicone Valley, if I may say so.

I, um, what, I lost my train of thought

175 3 wood  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:37:16pm

Got to run.

Later.

176 jorline  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:37:20pm

re: #165 3 wood

No road trips though.

All home games could be a bitch.

177 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:37:29pm

re: #157 Occasional Reader

The Sioux chose to live in the Great Plains, with stone age outerwear and no central heating. And you're telling me they weren't drunk?

Ohferpete's sake, tfk, it was a frickkin' joke.

178 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:37:40pm

re: #163 lawhawk

I guess we now know why so many foods taste like chicken... common ancestors... /ducking

Make up your mind. Chicken or duck?

179 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:37:56pm

re: #154 Charles

The first dinger-down: dcbatlle.

Expect followup ding-downs from sadatoni, arizona9, Gozer the Carpathian, and opiemuyo.

The silent, pissed off creationists.

Aww. Uncledick is gone?
/

180 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:38:16pm

re: #117 zombie

Interesting.

181 jcm  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:38:22pm

re: #172 gmsc

0bama is here to answer that very question!

Creepy, very creepy stuff...

182 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:38:33pm

re: #169 mikeymom

WHO? or as maisie would say-"WHAT"/

Maisey know's her roots. Check out a parrots eye, feet, ankles, all lizard like, scale like, not a mystery here.

183 Look At My New Grandbaby!  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:38:47pm

re: #157 Occasional Reader

The Sioux chose to live in the Great Plains, with stone age outerwear and no central heating. And you're telling me they weren't drunk?

Wheel? What's a wheel? We have women!

184 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:39:15pm
185 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:39:36pm

re: #170 Alouette

Ambulocetus.

Did anybody read James Rollins' Ice Hunt? It's an action movie of a novel, but features ambulocetus arctans a very nasty, freeze-dried version of ambulocetus, and it eats people.

The description? One horn...one eye...able to fly...and is purple?

186 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:39:43pm

re: #177 Occasional Reader

Ohferpete's sake, tfk, it was a frickkin' joke.

He down ding me on something on this thread for the fun of it. He must be drunk.

187 coquimbojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:39:49pm

re: #155 Hard Right

Pigeons? Hah! I have Condors in mine.

No need for a condor - there's not enough room - and I already have to wear MCHammer pants, if you know what I mean!

(While growing up we had one of the few wild California Condors living on our ranch - beeeg bird)

188 mikeymom  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:39:51pm

re: #182 Walter L. Newton

is she satisfied tonight or still 'presenting'?

189 notutopia  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:40:29pm

re: #138 taxfreekiller

zombie,

We Apache would not agree with you on this one thing.

Please do not use the "Native American Lost because they were all drunks"

Thank you,
an APACHEWHOKNOWS

TFK, I do not think that is what Zombie was implying or suggesting at all. There is genetic evidence to show that Alcohol tolerance is evolutionary. Land based populations that were exposed to alcohol the most recent in historical time, whether due to environment, temperature (yeast cultivation), or vegetation availability, are all factors as well.
[Link: health.dailynewscentral.com...]

190 logboy  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:40:40pm

Alright Obama, its been 14 days now. Where the #%* is my unicorn.

191 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:40:58pm
192 Gordon Marock  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:41:10pm

God don't make no junk . . . oh, wait, I gues he probably did make all the junk. . . unless, you know, it was an Archangel, or something, that made the junk.

193 traderjoe9  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:41:21pm

re: #161 3 wood

Henry Aaron is still the home run champ in my book.

Aaron was a hell of a player, especially for his era. Willie Mays is the greatest player of all time, though, in my (and many other peoples) opinions.

I used to worship Bonds, and even in his last few seasons when all the steroid details were coming out, I was still in awe when I watched him swing. It's really a shame what he did...he was such an amazing player even before the steroids and could have certainly achieved 600 home runs clean.

194 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:41:25pm

re: #187 coquimbojoe

No need for a condor - there's not enough room - and I already have to wear MCHammer pants, if you know what I mean!

(While growing up we had one of the few wild California Condors living on our ranch - beeeg bird)

How'd it taste?
///

195 Basho  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:41:32pm

reid an pelosi plot to rule america
obama helps by summoning his army
of commies from nasa

we fight back soon rather then later

196 coquimbojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:41:44pm

re: #157 Occasional Reader

The Sioux chose to live in the Great Plains, with stone age outerwear and no central heating. And you're telling me they weren't drunk?

Were codpieces the fashion in the stone age? Or am I mixed up. I have one on right now. I thought I was paying tribute to the plains indians.

197 screaming_eagle  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:41:53pm

re: #190 logboy

Alright Obama, its been 14 days now. Where the #%* is my unicorn.

Did you pay your taxes?

198 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:42:11pm

re: #192 Gordon Marock

God don't make no junk . . . oh, wait, I gues he probably did make all the junk. . . unless, you know, it was an Archangel, or something, that made the junk.

Nope. Subcontractor.

199 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:42:24pm

re: #189 notutopia

There is genetic evidence to show that Alcohol tolerance is evolutionary

Smoile when you say that, laddie.

[grabbing another Guinness from fridge]

200 Syrah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:42:32pm

Sharm,

If there is any thread that just screams out for your trademark Fatboyslim video, this is it.

Do you have it handy?

201 mikeymom  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:42:40pm

re: #191 taxfreekiller

Walter,

I am not a nice person.

yes you are tfk-after all, you are a LIZARD!

202 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:42:54pm
203 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:43:07pm

I have a Mosasaurus tooth, about 2 inches long, 96-66 mya, really neat, a Mosasaurus looked a little like the critters at the top of the thread.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

204 jcm  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:43:14pm

OT

I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out...

205 zombie  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:43:18pm

re: #138 taxfreekiller

zombie,

We Apache would not agree with you on this one thing.

Please do not use the "Native American Lost because they were all drunks"

Thank you,
an APACHEWHOKNOWS

No, Native Americans "lost" because they were vastly outnumbered, and the invaders had a huge technological advantage (i.e. guns). It had nothing to do with alcohol per se. The Apache, man for man, were probably better fighters, better horsemen, etc.

If 1 million Apache had invaded medieval Europe, bringing guns and horses, The French would all be speaking Athabaskan now.

206 Gordon Marock  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:43:26pm

re: #191 taxfreekiller

Walter,

I am not a nice person.

Mean is the new nice.

207 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:43:36pm

re: #200 Syrah

208 Jimmah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:43:37pm

People Are Not Animals! (and evolution never happened):

Heh.

209 gmsc  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:43:50pm

re: #198 Hard Right

Nope. Subcontractor.

We know God had some things designed by committee - just look at the duck-billed platypus!

210 coquimbojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:44:24pm

re: #202 buzzsawmonkey

Codpieces were worn in the late Middle Ages and the Renaissance.

Though who knows what the Vikings did with fish parts when they got bored on long voyages.

Can I still wear the codpiece? Or do I have to go find some forlorn bass head now?

211 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:44:30pm

re: #201 mikeymom

yes you are tfk-after all, you are a LIZARD!

Sure, can't we all get along. I guess not.

Maisey is not presenting tonight, but, if she is satisfied, don't look at me.

212 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:44:42pm

re: #209 gmsc

We know God had some things designed by committee - just look at the duck-billed platypus!

Nope one guy. Total pot head.

213 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:44:43pm

re: #205 zombie

No, Native Americans "lost" because they were vastly outnumbered, and the invaders had a huge technological advantage (i.e. guns). It had nothing to do with alcohol per se. The Apache, man for man, were probably better fighters, better horsemen, etc.

If 1 million Apache had invaded medieval Europe, bringing guns and horses, The French would all be speaking Athabaskan now.

The europeans also brought a lot of diseases that the natice population had never been exposed to.

214 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:45:25pm

This all arse about face to me. I thought we were supposed to come from the pond onto the land. What the heck is all this nonsense about going from the land back to pond. Bloody heck, cant evolution make up its mind?!

215 zombie  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:45:37pm

re: #189 notutopia

TFK, I do not think that is what Zombie was implying or suggesting at all. There is genetic evidence to show that Alcohol tolerance is evolutionary. Land based populations that were exposed to alcohol the most recent in historical time, whether due to environment, temperature (yeast cultivation), or vegetation availability, are all factors as well.
[Link: health.dailynewscentral.com...]

Thanks for covering for me! And a very good link explaining what I was trying to say!

216 Killian Bundy  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:45:49pm

re: #190 logboy

Alright Obama, its been 14 days now. Where the #%* is my unicorn.

They're on backorder.

/how about a nice Tiny Tom Daschle instead?

217 Gordon Marock  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:45:53pm

re: #205 zombie

No, Native Americans "lost" because they were vastly outnumbered, and the invaders had a huge technological advantage (i.e. guns). It had nothing to do with alcohol per se. The Apache, man for man, were probably better fighters, better horsemen, etc.

If 1 million Apache had invaded medieval Europe, bringing guns and horses, The French would all be speaking Athabaskan now.

I think I would prefer the French that way.

218 notutopia  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:45:53pm

re: #199 Occasional Reader

Smoile when you say that, laddie.

[grabbing another Guinness from fridge]

My fav! Pass one here.

219 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:46:25pm

re: #213 Sharmuta

Er- native population. PIMF

220 Neo Con since 9-11  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:46:36pm

re: #203 Walter L. Newton

I have a Mosasaurus tooth, about 2 inches long, 96-66 mya, really neat, a Mosasaurus looked a little like the critters at the top of the thread.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Perhaps you should see your dentist to have it removed and regular human dentures insteadd.

221 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:46:52pm

re: #205 zombie

and the invaders had a huge technological advantage (i.e. guns)

The guns kind of sucked at the time. I think it was more the germs.

222 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:47:00pm

re: #191 taxfreekiller

Walter,

I am not a nice person.

Well, generally I agree with most of your posts, sometimes I like to fool around with you, but if that's what you think about yourself, that's your problem, not mine.

It's not going to stop me from respecting what you say here.

It may stop me from inviting you to any parties, but that would probably make you feel good.

223 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:47:09pm

re: #164 jcm

The mouse crowd, the ones who are still wondering what that rectangular thingy with all the squiggly symbols attached to the computer is for.

Maybe we can get them simpler ones as gifts for "Talk Like a Pirate Day".

224 BatGuano  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:47:15pm

re: #193 traderjoe9

I think it is interesting that Bonds highest home run total before he hit 73 was 49. He hit 49 the previous year. Aaron is the all-time home run champ and Maris is still the single season champ.

225 notutopia  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:47:24pm

re: #215 zombie

Thanks for covering for me! And a very good link explaining what I was trying to say!

: )

226 Jed 1899  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:47:30pm

I didn't see any of those critters on the Ark...
There was Unicorn's though...

227 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:47:41pm

re: #222 Walter L. Newton

Well, generally I agree with most of your posts, sometimes I like to fool around with you, but if that's what you think about yourself, that's your problem, not mine.

It's not going to stop me from respecting what you say here.

It may stop me from inviting you to any parties, but that would probably make you feel good.

I hear he likes to drop kick kittens for fun.
///

228 Jim in Virginia  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:47:54pm

re: #195 Basho

reid an pelosi plot to rule america
obama helps by summoning his army
of commies from nasa



Huh?

229 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:47:57pm

Has anyone read Denying Evolution by Massimo Pigliucci?

230 swamprat  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:48:21pm

re: #157 Occasional Reader

The Sioux chose to live in the Great Plains, with stone age outerwear and no central heating. And you're telling me they weren't drunk?

They didn't drink because of alcohol; They got drunk because of the white man.

"Here comes another pilgram."

"Great Father! I need a drink!"

231 zombie  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:48:40pm

re: #213 Sharmuta

The europeans also brought a lot of diseases that the natice population had never been exposed to.

That went both ways. The Europeans caught syphilis from (raping the) native women. When they brought it back to Europe, it wiped out millions at first, before a less lethal strain evolved (better for the syphilis virus because it could then be spread more easily).

232 Killian Bundy  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:48:41pm

re: #205 zombie

If 1 million Apache had invaded medieval Europe, bringing guns and horses, The French would all be speaking Athabaskan now.

What if the Confederacy had had a B-52 and a trained crew?

/damn thing will fly on kerosene

233 jcm  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:48:51pm

re: #208 Jimmah

People Are Not Animals! (and evolution never happened):


[Video]

Heh.

GAH!
How many IQ points did that cost me...

234 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:48:58pm

re: #220 Neo Con since 9-11

Perhaps you should see your dentist to have it removed and regular human dentures insteadd.

It's not in my mouth. It's in a matrix of hardened sand, found in Morocco and... oh, I see, you were making a joke.

Ha... ha.. h no, it wasn't really that funny.

235 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:49:05pm

Syrah- you realize Fat Boy Slim is a nazi though, right? ;)

236 Look At My New Grandbaby!  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:49:49pm

re: #205 zombie

No, Native Americans "lost" because they were vastly outnumbered, and the invaders had a huge technological advantage (i.e. guns). It had nothing to do with alcohol per se. The Apache, man for man, were probably better fighters, better horsemen, etc.

If 1 million Apache had invaded medieval Europe, bringing guns and horses, The French would all be speaking Athabaskan now.

There were no horses in North America until the Spanish brought them over. Put the native Americans up against a bunch of Tatars and Cossacks and we'll see who are the better horsemen.

237 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:49:52pm

re: #213 Sharmuta

The europeans also brought a lot of diseases that the natice population had never been exposed to.

and were exposed in turn to diseases that they had never encountered, it works both ways. The Germs meme from those books is (forget the name of them atm) is a bit overdone, it was much less of a factor than the books make it out to be.

238 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:49:54pm

re: #235 Sharmuta

Syrah- you realize Fat Boy Slim is a nazi though, right? ;)

I thought he was a pakicetus?

239 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:49:54pm

re: #229 Sharmuta

OT - did you get my email and what did you think?

240 Basho  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:50:19pm

re: #208 Jimmah

For your enjoyment:
[Link: frankbi.wordpress.com...]

241 The Hoopster  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:50:27pm

re: #229 Sharmuta

Has anyone read Denying Evolution by Massimo Pigliucci?

I'm sorry..no..

242 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:50:41pm

re: #232 Killian Bundy

What if the Confederacy had had a B-52 and a trained crew?

/damn thing will fly on kerosene

What if Spartacus had had a Piper Cub?

(old SNL skit)

243 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:50:48pm
244 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:50:50pm

re: #235 Sharmuta

Syrah- you realize Fat Boy Slim is a nazi though, right? ;)

I thought that was a Cuban cigar?

245 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:50:51pm

re: #231 zombie

That went both ways. The Europeans caught syphilis from (raping the) native women. When they brought it back to Europe, it wiped out millions at first, before a less lethal strain evolved (better for the syphilis virus because it could then be spread more easily).

Didn't hitler have syphilis? Proof, proof I tell you, that Darwinism is evil!

246 logboy  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:51:07pm

re: #197 screaming_eagle

Did you pay your taxes?

I don't have to. He's going to "spread the wealth around" remember?

247 Syrah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:51:14pm

re: #231 zombie

Bacteria, not a virus.

248 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:51:34pm

re: #217 Gordon Marock

I think I would prefer the French that way.


In the Rugby sevens, to be held in Wellington this weekend, there are 16 teams from, well, allover. The Fwench, in a straw poll, are the rank outsiders to win with 14 votes. Ahead of them in favouratism are teams from Nuie, Cook Islands, Kenya, Tonga, Wales, Scotland and canada.

It would seem their reputation precedes them.

249 coquimbojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:51:37pm

re: #242 Occasional Reader

What if Spartacus had had a Piper Cub?

(old SNL skit)

What if a bear crapped on you? (Typical answer to what if questions around my house.)

250 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:51:44pm

re: #196 coquimbojoe

Were codpieces the fashion in the stone age? Or am I mixed up. I have one on right now. I thought I was paying tribute to the plains indians.

Let's not forget Cleaver Pants. From the author, civil rights leader, Black Panther Party member and fashion trend setter, Eldridge Cleaver

251 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:52:02pm

re: #245 Sharmuta

Didn't hitler have syphilis? Proof, proof I tell you, that Darwinism is evil!

He was also a vegetarian. Proof that vegetarians and their more extreme bretheren the vegans, are pure evil.
//

252 BatGuano  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:52:11pm

re: #245 Sharmuta

Syphilis was a gift from American Indians.

253 notutopia  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:52:45pm

re: #245 Sharmuta

Didn't hitler have syphilis? Proof, proof I tell you, that Darwinism is evil!

Tertiary syphilis. He was evil without any help of the insanity caused from his disease.

254 Buster Bunny  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:52:53pm

re: #252 BatGuano

Syphilis was a gift from American Indians.

Yeah well next time they can wrap their little gifts like that.

255 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:52:59pm

re: #249 coquimbojoe

What if a bear crapped on you? (Typical answer to what if questions around my house.)

I would have bear poo on me. What a silly question. Glad I could help tho.
///

256 Gordon Marock  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:53:19pm

re: #252 BatGuano

Syphilis was a gift from American Indians.

I knew there was someone I could blame!

257 coquimbojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:53:26pm

re: #250 HelloDare

Let's not forget Cleaver Pants. From the author, civil rights leader, Black Panther Party member and fashion trend setter, Eldridge Cleaver

I should have remembered those! I posted that a long time ago. My wife still won't sew me a pair.

258 ArmyWife  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:54:00pm

re: #250 HelloDare

People didn't seriously wear those, right? And how embaressing if you had a lot of, umm...empty fabric there at the end, liken when your sock if pulled halfway off!

259 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:54:08pm

re: #252 BatGuano

Syphilis was a gift from American Indians.

Actually, the last time we had this conversation on LGF, someone posted a link to the effect that scientists aren't so sure about that anymore. Syphilis may have already existed in Eurasia. Unfortunately, I don't recall the link.

260 Buster Bunny  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:54:23pm

re: #245 Sharmuta

Didn't hitler have syphilis? Proof, proof I tell you, that Darwinism is evil!

Idi Amin ate people. But he also believed in Darwinian principles.

Cant you just FEEL the connection?

261 coquimbojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:54:27pm

re: #255 Hard Right

I would have bear poo on me. What a silly question. Glad I could help tho.
///

Very helpful, you were!

262 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:54:30pm

re: #249 coquimbojoe

What if a bear crapped on you? (Typical answer to what if questions around my house.)

Been happening a lot lately, down at the Stock Exchange.

263 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:55:08pm

re: #259 Occasional Reader

Actually, the last time we had this conversation on LGF, someone posted a link to the effect that scientists aren't so sure about that anymore. Syphilis may have already existed in Eurasia. Unfortunately, I don't recall the link.

Syphilis will do that to you. ;)
///

264 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:55:15pm

re: #260 Buster Bunny

Idi Amin ate people. But he also believed in Darwinian principles.

Cant you just FEEL the connection?


And the Lurve, Liver

265 coquimbojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:55:24pm

re: #259 Occasional Reader

Actually, the last time we had this conversation on LGF, someone posted a link to the effect that scientists aren't so sure about that anymore. Syphilis may have already existed in Eurasia. Unfortunately, I don't recall the link.

So, was Asian Syphilis spread by migrating water fowl too?

266 jaunte  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:55:37pm

re: #260 Buster Bunny

Idi Amin ate people. But he also believed in Darwinian principles.

Cant you just FEEL the connection?

Didn't he retire to a Darwinian colony in broadminded Saudi Arabia?

267 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:55:42pm
268 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:56:05pm

re: #261 coquimbojoe

Very helpful, you were!

BTW, don't forget to grab a rabbit after it happens.
//

269 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:56:11pm

re: #265 coquimbojoe

So, was Asian Syphilis spread by migrating water fowl too?


Dont you dare go there, ducks and Asian men are strictly taboo

270 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:56:47pm

re: #266 jaunte

Didn't he retire to a Darwinian colony in broadminded Saudi Arabia?


By broadminded, you mean brains all over the brick wall, right?

271 jcm  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:57:00pm

re: #243 buzzsawmonkey

Uuuuh...it was satire.

My satire meter must be off, after "Banana: The Athiests Nightmare." Anything is possible.

Heh!

272 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:57:17pm

re: #269 A Kiwi Infidel

Dont you dare go there, ducks and Asian men are strictly taboo

Maybe it was carried by two asian ducks?
///

273 Buster Bunny  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:57:29pm

re: #266 jaunte

Didn't he retire to a Darwinian colony in broadminded Saudi Arabia?

Saudi Arabia? You mean the HOUSE OF TRUE LOVE AND HAPPINESS IBN SAUD?

yeah that one. He died of natural causes and boredom.

274 Syrah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:57:37pm

re: #267 buzzsawmonkey

Crude guns is better than no guns at all. Do not underestimate the devastating effect of a volley that can kill from farther away than a spear or a crude bow and arrow--not to mention the psychological effect of sudden loud noises and smoke upon people who have never seen this before.

"Any technology significantly advanced enough is indistinguishable from magic." Arthur C. Clark

275 jcw46  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:57:52pm

re: #190 logboy

Alright Obama, its been 14 days now. Where the #%* is my unicorn.

Maybe you could write a letter and ask HIM for something from here.

(pretend you're a 2nd grader. Who knows maybe you'll even get a visit!1!1)

276 coquimbojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:58:16pm

re: #269 A Kiwi Infidel

Dont you dare go there, ducks and Asian men are strictly taboo

It seems to me that this thread has morphed. In fact, maybe later tonite I will tell Mrs. Coquimbojoe 'Honey, I'm morphing...' That should be the ticket.

277 BatGuano  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:58:19pm

re: #256 Gordon Marock

I hope I did not offend anyone for using the phrase "American Indian". Having been born in Oregon America, I consider myself a native American. And I was trying to.. well, you know what I mean.

278 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:58:41pm
279 WhiteRasta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:58:42pm

re: #260 Buster Bunny

Mugabe certainly behaves as if he is in the end stage of syphilis...

280 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:59:01pm

Bad news on the Unicorns---the horn and magic abilities aren't due out until 2032.

281 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:59:05pm

re: #267 buzzsawmonkey

Crude guns is better than no guns at all. Do not underestimate the devastating effect of a volley that can kill from farther away than a spear or a crude bow and arrow--not to mention the psychological effect of sudden loud noises and smoke upon people who have never seen this before.

Not really a done deal that, say, 16th or early 17th century guns had a better effective range than a well-made bow.

282 A Kiwi Infidel  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:59:15pm

re: #276 coquimbojoe

It seems to me that this thread has morphed. In fact, maybe later tonite I will tell Mrs. Coquimbojoe 'Honey, I'm morphing...' That should be the ticket.


To which she replies, "I dont care what you call it, it will still make you go blind, so they say"

283 traderjoe9  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:59:20pm

re: #224 BatGuano

I think it is interesting that Bonds highest home run total before he hit 73 was 49. He hit 49 the previous year. Aaron is the all-time home run champ and Maris is still the single season champ.

Bonds was still on pace to become one of the greatest players in baseball history, even before the steroids. He had won three MVP's by 1993, and prior to 1999, he already had 7 Silver Sluggers, 8 Gold Gloves, over 400 stolen bases, 8 All Star appearances, an OBP average of .430 and not to mention - 411 home runs.

I'm only defending Bonds in the sense that he doesn't deserve all the crap he gets. He's one player in an era when athletes from every single sport were using performance-enhancing drugs, and still do today.

Aaron may still be the home-run champ...but it really doesn't matter much. A whole slew of players, A-Rod among them, are about to crash the once prestigious party.

284 oh_dude  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:59:21pm

Nice try, but I've got video proof that Humans and Dinosaurs co-existed.

Who's the fraud now Mr.?

285 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 6:59:46pm
286 zombie  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:00:09pm

re: #247 Syrah

Bacteria, not a virus.

I knew I was getting it wrong, but wanted to post quickly than waste time looking up what the heck causes syphilis!

287 BatGuano  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:00:12pm

re: #259 Occasional Reader

In Jared Diamonds book Guns, Germs and Steel, he credits the American Indians.

288 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:00:17pm

and bears into ... better bears. Sasquatch.


Lady Sasquatch makes far inroads into the Miss America contest.

289 jaunte  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:00:21pm

re: #278 buzzsawmonkey

Imperial Japan didn't believe in evolution:
[Link: www.cultureandrecreation.gov.au...]

290 Killian Bundy  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:00:22pm

Is it just me or is Obama's Press Secretary looking to be not long for the job? Guy's got beady eyes and the baseball metaphors are already past the expiration date.

/chum in a shark tank

291 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:00:28pm
292 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:00:49pm

re: #287 BatGuano

In Jared Diamonds book Guns, Germs and Steel, he credits the American Indians.

RACIST!
///

293 Buster Bunny  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:00:55pm

re: #279 WhiteRasta

Mugabe certainly behaves as if he is in the end stage of syphilis...

It was so last week that a 300 Billion Dollar note got you a loaf of bread. And a Trillion Dollar bailout is only something you do after you get locked up after a night on the town.

294 JHW  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:01:10pm

Genetic Study Bolsters Columbus Link to Syphilis
Apparently, the New World form of this was something called bejel, which has primarily lesions on the legs and skin, more often in children. I believe from reading Columbus' account, Caribbean Indians were taken aboard the ships as guides, I can't remember if they kidnapped some of them back to Spain.

295 WhiteRasta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:01:13pm

re: #285 buzzsawmonkey

Didn't the Egyptians invent the compound bow?

296 screaming_eagle  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:01:22pm

re: #246 logboy

I don't have to. He's going to "spread the wealth around" remember?

No you mis-understood him. He is gonna spread YOUR wealth around, and only ACORN registered voters get free unicorns.

297 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:01:27pm

re: #290 Killian Bundy

Is it just me or is Obama's Press Secretary looking to be not long for the job? Guy's got beady eyes and the baseball metaphors are already past the expiration date.

/chum in a shark tank

He's pining for the fjords?

298 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:01:45pm
299 FrogMarch  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:02:10pm

re: #162 Sharmuta

What's sad is thinking about the segment of his audience that agrees.

yes. I wonder if O'Reilly realizes he screwed up - or if he really is in the tank with that line of thinking?

300 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:02:23pm

re: #294 JHW

An indian went back on the first return IIRC.

301 CynicalConservative  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:02:27pm

re: #283 traderjoe9

Did you get a reprieve? Thought the ban-hammer struck last night. Sorry if I got it wrong.

302 FrogMarch  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:02:54pm
303 Buster Bunny  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:03:00pm

re: #290 Killian Bundy

Is it just me or is Obama's Press Secretary looking to be not long for the job? Guy's got beady eyes and the baseball metaphors are already past the expiration date.

/chum in a shark tank

This is 21C .. after the baseball strikes etc etc ..

Baseball had its time and played politics for a whole season.
I havent watched a game in over seven years now.

304 BatGuano  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:03:14pm

re: #283 traderjoe9

Hey Trader, No argument from me on Bonds accomplishments, pre 'roids. He had HOF creds anyway and was a great player. Too bad he tainted his career unnecessarily

305 lifeofthemind  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:03:19pm

re: #213 Sharmuta

The europeans also brought a lot of diseases that the natice population had never been exposed to.

The natives returned the favor, syphilis spread from the New World to the Old.

306 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:03:19pm
307 zombie  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:03:33pm

re: #236 Alouette

There were no horses in North America until the Spanish brought them over. Put the native Americans up against a bunch of Tatars and Cossacks and we'll see who are the better horsemen.

Yes, but within a few decades of the Spanish bringing horses to the New World, the Native Americans were as good as if not better than the Spanish at riding them. By the late 1500s, whole tribes were great horsemen. By that time, some Spanish horses had escaped, gone feral, and become wild mustangs -- which the Native Americans caught and tamed.

(BTW, there were horses in North American prior to 10,000 years ago, but they died out -- and it's not clear why. Possibly hunted to extinction by humans or saber-tooths.)

308 CapeCoddah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:04:02pm

Some possibly good news:
Judge may add 5 thousand absentee ballots to Coleman/Franken race:
[Link: www.bostonherald.com...]

309 lifeofthemind  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:04:15pm

Sorry I see I am late to the party.

310 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:04:18pm

re: #306 buzzsawmonkey

They may have; it was invented, or re-invented, by a number of civilizations. The Mongolians had it; it allowed for short bows which they could use on horseback.

It's odd that the English went for the longbow, rather than the compound.

The lonbow had pretty good range. Although you needed to be a manly man to use one.

311 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:04:28pm

re: #285 buzzsawmonkey

Ah, but the American Indians did not have good bows. If I recall correctly, they never discovered the compound bow.

It's not just the technology. It's also about organization and training. (e.g. The Macedonian Phalanx)

In the early days of fighting the enemies it was about rate of fire, then when rifling came the training moved to rate of fire and accuracy.

312 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:04:31pm

re: #307 zombie

One tribe called the horse the "7 dog" because one horse could pack as much as seven dogs.

313 WhiteRasta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:04:31pm

re: #293 Buster Bunny

I should go to my local foreign exchange booth and get me a billion dollar note.

Just for fun.

314 Buster Bunny  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:05:07pm

re: #309 lifeofthemind

Sorry I see I am late to the party.

Trillion dollar bailout again? (see #293)

315 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:05:08pm
316 gmsc  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:05:27pm

re: #246 logboy

I don't have to. He's going to "spread the wealth around" remember?

Plus, 0bama is going to make us all rich!

(h/t jcm)

Of course, this is backed up by Peggy Joseph:

317 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:05:43pm

Walter- I replied.

318 jaunte  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:05:56pm

re: #306 buzzsawmonkey

I think the (longbow) yew survived better in the wet, than the (compound bow) glue.

319 JHW  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:05:56pm

re: #300 Ojoe

Yes, I think you're right, he was presented to the court of Spain, IIRC. I have almost a full set of the Hakluyt Society original narratives of exploration, and Columbus' diaries are printed, though it's been a while since I've read them.

320 jcw46  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:06:06pm

re: #205 zombie

No, Native Americans "lost" because they were vastly outnumbered, and the invaders had a huge technological advantage (i.e. guns). It had nothing to do with alcohol per se. The Apache, man for man, were probably better fighters, better horsemen, etc.

If 1 million Apache had invaded medieval Europe, bringing guns and horses, The French would all be speaking Athabaskan now.

Well, no. They'd all be speaking German! Hah! Them Germanic a$$holes can out-barbarian a bunch of pansy-assed Indians! And Evolutionary evidence of alcohol tolerance be damned, beer has fueled more than one war. It was after wwI that the Germanic and French battle lust waned because all the warriors were dead. (wwII was actually the final battles of wwI and THAT ruined the Brit and Italian warriors).

321 Buster Bunny  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:06:43pm

re: #313 WhiteRasta

I should go to my local foreign exchange booth and get me a billion dollar note.

Just for fun.

forex wont service Zimbabwe. But a coin or stamp place will have a couple of billion dollar notes sitting in their stock. Buy a couple .. just for the idea of holding a 100 billion dollar note :)

322 SpaceJesus  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:07:18pm

I have found where the creationists roost, and dear lord is it a hilarious place


[Link: www.godtube.com...]

323 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:07:21pm
324 jcw46  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:07:37pm

re: #276 coquimbojoe

It seems to me that this thread has morphed. In fact, maybe later tonite I will tell Mrs. Coquimbojoe 'Honey, I'm morphing...' That should be the ticket.

"Honey, is that a roll of quarters in your pocket or are you just morphing?"

325 jorline  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:07:38pm

re: #309 lifeofthemind

Sorry I see I am late to the party.

Here's your party hat and noise maker.

326 traderjoe9  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:07:43pm

re: #304 BatGuano

Hey Trader, No argument from me on Bonds accomplishments, pre 'roids. He had HOF creds anyway and was a great player. Too bad he tainted his career unnecessarily

Yup...I was glad when he finally retired in '07. Our team could finally move on...and hey, we have a solid squad coming into '09. I bet we even take the West this year.

327 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:08:02pm

re: #298 Iron Fist

If firearms, even in primitive forms, did not give one any advantage there would have never been any atempts to refine the weapon into more deadly (and more esthetically pleasing) forms throught history. If bows and arrows, swords and spears were just as good as primitive guns, why would you trade in something that you knew worked, for something that didn't always work?

I think the psychological effect had a lot to do with it. Big boom, psychologically enabling, soldiers fought better (see David Grossman's work). But think of a matchlock or wheelock gun, compared to a GOOD bow (and conceding buzz's point that bows weren't so great in pre-Colombian America). Which is lighter? Which reloads faster? Which is more weather-resistant? And like I said, I *think* the "effective range" question is up in the air, I'd have to look for it.

328 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:08:24pm

re: #322 SpaceJesus

I have found where the creationists roost, and dear lord is it a hilarious place


[Link: www.godtube.com...]


Careful, a lot of just plain Christians also use that service, I'm an atheist and I have an acct. Don't tar them all.

329 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:08:29pm
330 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:08:41pm

re: #298 Iron Fist

why would you trade in something that you knew worked, for something that didn't always work?

It might work. Like throwing down the field on 1st and 10.

331 jaunte  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:08:54pm

re: #323 buzzsawmonkey

If that's the case, then I wooden know the answer.

332 jcm  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:09:03pm

re: #329 taxfreekiller

fire sticks bad things

Fire stick...?

333 traderjoe9  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:09:10pm

re: #301 CynicalConservative

Did you get a reprieve? Thought the ban-hammer struck last night. Sorry if I got it wrong.

Yup. I talked to Charles...it was just a big misunderstanding...

334 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:09:18pm
335 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:09:21pm

re: #306 buzzsawmonkey

It's odd that the English went for the longbow, rather than the compound.

They were drunk, too.

336 Look At My New Grandbaby!  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:09:27pm

re: #278 buzzsawmonkey

Isn't there a town named Darwin in South Africa? And didn't South Africa have apartheid? Clearly, evolution is responsible.

I thought Darwin was a town in Australia. Did it evolve into South Africa?

337 Basho  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:09:59pm

re: #322 SpaceJesus

I have found where the creationists roost, and dear lord is it a hilarious place

[Link: www.godtube.com...]

lmao
Didn't even have to watch a single video. I saw a screencap and laughed.

BTW cool avatar.

338 swamprat  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:10:11pm

re: #319 JHW

Yes, I think you're right, he was presented to the court of Spain, IIRC. I have almost a full set of the Hakluyt Society original narratives of exploration, and Columbus' diaries are printed, though it's been a while since I've read them.


Do they say anything about him marrying the Azorian governor's daughter? She was 17. He already had a wife in Spain. When he did not return, she wore black for the rest of her life.

339 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:10:26pm

re: #335 Occasional Reader

They were drunk, too.

Crappy weather. Bad teeth. Oppressive monarchy. I'd be drunk too.

340 logboy  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:11:29pm

re: #296 screaming_eagle

No you mis-understood him. He is gonna spread YOUR wealth around, and only ACORN registered voters get free unicorns.

And you misunderstood me for being rich!

341 lawhawk  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:11:30pm

OT:
So, Obama now takes credit for nominating a bunch of tax cheats. He says he screwed up.

"It's important for this administration to send a message that there aren't two sets of rules — you know, one for prominent people and one for ordinary folks who have to pay their taxes," Obama said near the end of a day of jarring developments, little more than 24 hours after he had said he was "absolutely" committed to Daschle's confirmation.

Gotcha.

You're only sorry because not only were you caught, but your nominees had to commit hari kari. If you were committed to one set of rules, you wouldn't have let any of these folks near the nomination; your team of vetters knew and picked up on the tax problems, and you still approved them.

That goes to your judgment - the lack thereof.

342 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:11:38pm
343 Kronocide  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:11:54pm

The brewery next door to my office is calling. I need to test their new batch. I'm sure you all understand why I must leave this important work.

344 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:11:58pm
345 WhiteRasta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:12:05pm

re: #306 buzzsawmonkey

North American Indians did not discover the wheel, either...

346 SpaceJesus  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:12:27pm

re: #337 Basho

lmao
Didn't even have to watch a single video. I saw a screencap and laughed.

BTW cool avatar.


oh no, you have to watch some of the videos under 'evolution' then read the comments. it is comedy gold.

347 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:12:34pm
348 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:12:49pm

re: #334 Iron Fist

Yeah, IIRC Japan banned the ownership of guns because they were making the samurai with their katana, yari, naginata, etc obsolete.

Yep. But I think there you've hit on something; it's not necessarily that 16th century guns were great, it's that they allowed relatively untrained peasant soldiers to deliver at least one lethal shot to superbly-trained samurai.

349 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:12:52pm
350 jorline  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:13:02pm

Oops...change the teleprompter.

President Obama to water down 'Buy American' plan after EU trade war threat

“I agree that we can’t send a protectionist message,” he said in an interview with Fox TV. “I want to see what kind of language we can work on this issue. I think it would be a mistake, though, at a time when worldwide trade is declining, for us to start sending a message that somehow we’re just looking after ourselves and not concerned with world trade.”

Are the tires still flat on Obama's bicycle...can he still backpedal?

351 lawhawk  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:13:10pm

re: #311 Thanos

Rate of fire and phalanx? Someone call for R2D2?

352 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:13:25pm

re: #347 taxfreekiller

Tequila will morph you way faster than evolution.

You'll go from walking upright to all fours in no time.

353 CynicalConservative  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:13:43pm

re: #333 traderjoe9

Yup. I talked to Charles...it was just a big misunderstanding...

Welcome back! Missed the commentary, just saw the results.

354 gmsc  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:13:54pm

OT: Kook from another board on the wealth transfer bill (you can put any other shade of lipstick on that pig that you want, but . . .):

You know, a tax refund of $500 won't really do much for me- it's not going to buy me a new TV, it's not going to pay for the construction on my home. It might buy a month or so of groceries, but I'd already had that budgeted. I'd rather that money went to something that'd help my stock portfolio or my salary, because that would be worth more than $500. I'm going to bet there's a lot of people who feel the same. (Hell, I didn't even want my last tax rebate; looked like an attempt to buy my vote anyway- and my vote's worth more than that.)

So why don't we cut all the tax rebates out of the stimulus package, and drop the amount down by 25% or so. Or maybe we can spend that extra money on even more job creation and such. I, for one, would love for America to have a better public transportation system. I'd much rather be able to read on the way to work again, instead of cursing at the guy who cut me off in traffic.

My response?

Take all the tax rebates out? Well, if your solution is to getting the economy back on track is letting people keep less and less of their own money, why don't we get our economy back on track as soon as possible by having a 100% tax rate? The forms would sure be simpler.

If you don't think 100% is a good number, I would be fascinated to hear how little of their own money that you believe people should be allowed to keep.

355 Look At My New Grandbaby!  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:14:02pm

re: #338 swamprat

Do they say anything about him marrying the Azorian governor's daughter? She was 17. He already had a wife in Spain. When he did not return, she wore black for the rest of her life.

Who did, the Spanish wife or the 17-year-old?

356 jorline  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:14:19pm

re: #325 jorline

Here's your party hat and noise maker.

Speaking of pirates...anyone see LoFlyer lately?

357 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:14:23pm
358 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:14:37pm

re: #345 WhiteRasta

North American Indians did not discover the wheel, either...

Who needs a wheel when you have chocolate?

359 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:15:00pm
360 JHW  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:15:01pm

re: #338 swamprat


I can't remember if he wrote on that, but I'll check on it later, sounds interesting. That must have been on the 3rd voyage?

361 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:15:31pm

re: #351 lawhawk

Rate of fire and phalanx? Someone call for R2D2?

Somehow I left off two sentences from that post... I was explaining that the armies the indians encountered had better organization and training in rate of fire and an advantage, when rifling showed up it was all she wrote for them.

362 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:16:00pm

re: #359 buzzsawmonkey

Roulette. Casinos.

"How can Ace be one and eleven? What kind of god would allow that?"

363 Bobblehead  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:16:13pm

re: #350 jorline

Oops...change the teleprompter.

President Obama to water down 'Buy American' plan after EU trade war threat

Are the tires still flat on Obama's bicycle...can he still backpedal?

What a maroon.

364 coquimbojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:16:25pm

re: #324 jcw46

"Honey, is that a roll of quarters in your pocket or are you just morphing?"

If I morph for more than 4 hours, should i see a doctor? Or and evolutionary biologist?

365 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:16:38pm

re: #354 gmsc

OT: Kook from another board on the wealth transfer bill (you can put any other shade of lipstick on that pig that you want, but . . .):

In a college class last night one obvious young moonbat declared democracy as too slow, too old, and outdated.
While a gray haired one was all for going to a parliamentary government.
God save us from morons.

366 FrogMarch  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:16:50pm

A little VDH

Two subtexts as well: there must be many more Daschles and Geithners floating around Washington who don’t show up on the radar unless they want a top political appointment; and, two, the old liberal creed that taxes are good and patriotic and are avoided by greedy, selfish conservative elites seems shattered by these examples.”

367 jcm  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:16:57pm

Jet engine test. The use explosive bolts to detach a bunch of blades in the front of the engine. The purpose of the test is to see if the shroud contains the flying debris so that shrapnel won't penetrate the fuselage.

368 WhiteRasta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:17:29pm

re: #349 buzzsawmonkey

I was taught that the wheel was irrelevant. Most transportation was done on foot or canoe.

369 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:17:34pm

re: #350 jorline

Oops...change the teleprompter.

President Obama to water down 'Buy American' plan after EU trade war threat

Are the tires still flat on Obama's bicycle...can he still backpedal?

As I said in a previous thread; any junior legislative assistant should have been able to spot the problem. It's terrifying that the people who we now have in the national cockpit did not.

370 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:17:54pm

re: #363 Bobblehead

It actually is the right thing to do. "Buy american" is a populist political ploy, kicking off a trade war right now would be disastrous and take us into a real depression.

371 jorline  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:17:58pm

re: #363 Bobblehead

What a maroon.

I think he's been having breakfast with Pat Buchanan.

372 screaming_eagle  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:18:33pm

re: #340 logboy

And you misunderstood me for being rich!


That's right, just hoard all your money. There are children out there who need free condoms and all you can worry about is a magical pony.

373 logboy  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:18:48pm

re: #345 WhiteRasta

North American Indians did not discover the wheel, either...

Come on... everybody knows Al Gore invented the wheel right before the internet.

374 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:18:57pm

Obama's choices have been so bad I wonder if Karl Rove isn't behind it all.

375 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:18:58pm

re: #368 WhiteRasta

I was taught that the wheel was irrelevant. Most transportation was done on foot or canoe.

Jared Diamond again; his thesis (IIRC) was that the wheel wasn't terribly useful without draft animals. And the Native Americans had the misfortune of not having any native species really suitable for morphing into draft animals.

376 solomonpanting  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:19:26pm

re: #359 buzzsawmonkey

re: #357 taxfreekiller

Why invent a wheel if like where you are and do not want to leave?

Roulette. Casinos.

So Native Americans are refining the wheel.

377 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:19:27pm

re: #367 jcm

Jet engine test. The use explosive bolts to detach a bunch of blades in the front of the engine. The purpose of the test is to see if the shroud contains the flying debris so that shrapnel won't penetrate the fuselage.



Very cool, you really don't know anything about machine until you test it to destruction.

378 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:19:36pm

re: #372 screaming_eagle

That's right, just hoard all your money. There are children out there who need free condoms and all you can worry about is a magical pony.

I killed and ate that magical pony. Muwahahahahahaha!

379 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:20:03pm
380 WhiteRasta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:20:44pm

re: #370 Thanos

Good point. NAFTA has binding clauses on this.
Protectionism is bad news for all people. Free Trade is the way out of poverty.

NAFTA has been a huge benefit to the USA, Canada and Mexico.

381 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:22:05pm
382 screaming_eagle  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:22:18pm

re: #350 jorline

Oops...change the teleprompter.

President Obama to water down 'Buy American' plan after EU trade war threat


Are the tires still flat on Obama's bicycle...can he still backpedal?


The think is he got into hot water over NAFTA pandering to the unions. Remember Canada raising hell about it. Proof he doesn't think things through.

383 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:22:50pm
384 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:22:51pm

Friends don't let friends morph?

385 jcw46  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:23:14pm

re: #306 buzzsawmonkey

They may have; it was invented, or re-invented, by a number of civilizations. The Mongolians had it; it allowed for short bows which they could use on horseback.

It's odd that the English went for the longbow, rather than the compound.

I hope you all realize that "compound bow" means a bow using levers and pulleys to 'compound' the draw weight? what you are actually referring to is a compound materials bow. That came from the chinese (sheesh, what didn't they invent and then forgot?) which was taken up by the mongols who spread it throughout asia during their conquest. the compound materials allowed them to make a shorter bow (needed for usage while mounted {the mongols were THE greatest horsemen in the world's history}) with a high draw weight. Many could penetrate steel armor. The english used the yew longbow because of the availability of the necessary material and their long usage/knowledge. The longbow pound for pound gave the highest draw weights/penetrative ability combined with rapid fire that were never exceeded until firearms. The bow and arrow was an effective weapon but it took a long time to train a bowmen. Crossbowmen took less time to train but the crossbow was less effective due to reload time.
That's why firearms were developed. Much of the time to produce the effective firearm of modern era was because of industrial capabilities and the need for specialized materials, i.e. modern steel and boring and rifling machines.

386 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:23:26pm

re: #379 buzzsawmonkey

In North America, maybe--where there were few cities and no manufacturing economy. But it is astounding that in a civilization as advanced as that of the Olmecs or Aztecs, both of which had urban centers, that wheels were never used to transport goods or produce.

I always suspected you were an olmecophobe.

387 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:23:47pm
388 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:23:47pm
389 WhiteRasta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:23:47pm

re: #379 buzzsawmonkey

Yes. I agree.

390 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:23:59pm

re: #383 buzzsawmonkey

Time to seek the arms of Morpheus.

Is he your boyfriend? The one we were discussing on the previous thread?

/it's a joke, campers

391 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:24:25pm

re: #239 Walter L. Newton

OT - did you get my email and what did you think?

Sharmuta forwarded it, thanks. I have nothing more to say about the subject. Those people are dead to me.

392 jorline  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:24:51pm

re: #382 screaming_eagle

The think is he got into hot water over NAFTA pandering to the unions. Remember Canada raising hell about it. Proof he doesn't think things through.

Obama's plate is full right now.

He'll want to go on the campaign trail for 2012 by the end of the month, once again avoiding the issues.

393 Jimmah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:25:28pm

re: #233 jcm

GAH!
How many IQ points did that cost me...

You need to watch it all the way through - it's a satire of creationist arguments which actually builds up into a very strong case for evolution.

394 Killian Bundy  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:25:34pm

Kyrgyzstan to close U.S. base used to supply Afghanistan

In a setback to the escalating U.S. military efforts in Afghanistan , the president of Kyrgyzstan said Tuesday that his government will shut down the American air base in his country.

U.S. officials say that the Manas Air Base is vital to plans to send an additional 30,000 American troops to Afghanistan , a linchpin of President Barack Obama's efforts to pacify the country.

Word's out, Obama's a wussy. Just watch, we're going to cut and run in Afghanistan.

/sure hope Karzai's life insurance is paid up and he's got an escape plan

395 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:25:39pm

Allahpundit took his funny pills...
Ben Stein withdraws as UVM commencement speaker after outcry over intelligent design

Why would an audience filled with scientists and science majors want to be addressed by a guy who believes “science leads you to killing people”? Better yet, why would that guy want to address them? It’d be like inviting a liberal who believes conservatism is inherently racist to guest-blog on Hot Air. I get enough flak for linking HuffPo occasionally in Headlines that I can imagine how that’d go down with our readers.

Exit question: Can it really be that we’re creeping up on 9 p.m. on the east coast without a post yet on this from LGF?


Lol

396 jcw46  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:25:57pm

re: #315 buzzsawmonkey

A number of the samurai epics by Kurosawa and others show very clearly that a gun or two was considered an immense advantage. Granted that's moviemaking, but the Japanese were pretty intent on accurately portraying samurai warfare.

The Samurai were very contemptuous and concerned about the spread of firearms in Japan. They understood that ANY man could best a Samurai with a firearm. They knew that their way of life would be gone once firearms became common. And it did.

397 Neo Con since 9-11  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:25:59pm

re: #295 WhiteRasta

Didn't the Egyptians invent the compound bow?

re: #306 buzzsawmonkey

They may have; it was invented, or re-invented, by a number of civilizations. The Mongolians had it; it allowed for short bows which they could use on horseback.

It's odd that the English went for the longbow, rather than the compound.


Mongolian bow was a recurve composite bow not a compound bow. The compound bow wasn't invented till the sixties as the ability to fuse the rare metallic or graphite compounds didn't exist till then.

398 notutopia  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:26:01pm

re: #383 buzzsawmonkey

Time to seek the arms of Morpheus.

399 screaming_eagle  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:26:31pm

re: #392 jorline

Will Hope and Change then turn to Fear and Desperation?

400 jorline  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:26:32pm

re: #391 Charles

Sharmuta forwarded it, thanks. I have nothing more to say about the subject. Those people are dead to me.

Just remember...zombie is one of the GOOD dead people, Charles.

401 Bobblehead  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:26:49pm

re: #370 Thanos

It actually is the right thing to do. "Buy american" is a populist political ploy, kicking off a trade war right now would be disastrous and take us into a real depression.


That was my point. He should have realized that language would enrage our trading partners. This brings me to another issue. Did our "genius" even read that legislation? I'm beginning to think all this coming as a big surprise to him too.

402 WhiteRasta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:27:18pm

re: #392 jorline

Obama is just so completely out of his league...I imagine him waking up after the election and thinking, "Be careful what you wish for..."

403 Jimmah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:27:23pm

re: #240 Basho

For your enjoyment:
[Link: frankbi.wordpress.com...]

I like that, thanks.

404 swamprat  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:27:57pm

re: #355 Alouette
When Christopher Columbus stopped in the Azores to get supplies, he married the governor's daughter. On his trip back from America, he did not stop, even though he was 900 miles from the next land. He let 3 men go ashore because they had vowed to do mass at the first land they saw. He went back to the mainland without setting foot in the azorian islands because he was well aware that they would have found out about the wife he had in Spain. His azorian wife wore black for the rest of her life(though some wags attribute her with inventing the most famous Azorian w(h)ine; Take me to America!)
Chris is not liked in the Azores.

405 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:27:58pm

re: #387 Iron Fist

I mean cartridge fed. IIRC there were some cartrige weapons available and used in the Civil War

Certainly in the area of revolvers, and the Henry rifle entered service during the Civil War.

Now, for utterly cool Civil War sidearms, I think nothing beats a LeMat's. Hell, I'd feel pretty confident packing one of them today (although it would be a little on the bulky side).

406 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:28:14pm
407 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:28:55pm
408 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:28:55pm

re: #387 Iron Fist

Yes, there were some cartridge guns sparsely used in the Civil War, mostly by officers as they were expensive imports.

409 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:29:10pm

re: #394 Killian Bundy

Kyrgyzstan to close U.S. base used to supply Afghanistan

Word's out, Obama's a wussy. Just watch, we're going to cut and run in Afghanistan.

/sure hope Karzai's life insurance is paid up and he's got an escape plan

Oy.

Depressing news.

410 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:29:12pm

re: #405 Occasional Reader

Certainly in the area of revolvers, and the Henry rifle entered service during the Civil War.

Now, for utterly cool Civil War sidearms, I think nothing beats a LeMat's. Hell, I'd feel pretty confident packing one of them today (although it would be a little on the bulky side).

Isn't that a beer? I'd pack one anytime. ;)

411 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:29:18pm

re: #317 Sharmuta

Walter- I replied.

And you have some more, read when you can.

412 WhiteRasta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:29:26pm

re: #397 Neo Con since 9-11

Damn! You are correct! I mixed up recurved bow with compound bow.

Full marks to you.

413 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:29:32pm
414 jorline  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:29:34pm

re: #402 WhiteRasta

Obama is just so completely out of his league...I imagine him waking up after the election and thinking, "Be careful what you wish for..."

I've said this on several occasions.

To the tune of the old Toyota jingle.

You asked for it...you got it...bend over.

415 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:30:21pm

re: #370 Thanos

It actually is the right thing to do. "Buy american" is a populist political ploy, kicking off a trade war right now would be disastrous and take us into a real depression.

Lets just hope we don't get the double whammy of another dust bowl.

416 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:30:23pm

re: #406 buzzsawmonkey

Nice summary. Yes, modern compound bows have all the levers and pulleys and whatnot, but what you refer to as a "compound materials bow" I have seen referred to also as a "compound bow"--though these did not, of course, have all the fancy technology used today.

I believe, though I am not sure, that the compound materials bow was known in the ancient world, but that knowledge of it died out with the Roman Empire (as did, say, the knowledge of how to make concrete), until it was re-introduced to the West by the Mongol invasion.

I thought you were going to bed? Is this your Parthian Shot?

417 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:30:26pm

re: #391 Charles

Sharmuta forwarded it, thanks. I have nothing more to say about the subject. Those people are dead to me.

Does your statement include the person that is the subject of the emails? I'm just interested. I am staying off line with this.

418 Neo Con since 9-11  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:30:28pm

re: #406 buzzsawmonkey

What you heard referred to as a compound bow was actually a composite bow.
/Archery team geek off

419 jaunte  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:30:56pm

re: #395 Killgore Trout

From your link:
"“I am far more pro-science than the Darwinists,” Stein said later in an e-mail.
I want all scientific inquiry to happen — not just what the ruling clique calls science.”

I hope Stein emails Dembski and Behe and asks them to get back into the lab and produce something other than another book.

420 jcw46  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:31:18pm

re: #387 Iron Fist
Breech loaders were the big innovation for the Civil war with primitive cartridges. The big technical problem was ignition of the powder when you wanted it to go off. They also used a muzzle loader with a form of cartridge a package of powder, bullet (the minie ball named after minie who helped develop it) and the wading wrapped it all up that helped raise firing rates.

421 jcm  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:31:20pm

re: #393 Jimmah

You need to watch it all the way through - it's a satire of creationist arguments which actually builds up into a very strong case for evolution.

Buzz pointed that out. My satire meter is off after this.

422 Hard Right  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:31:39pm

re: #413 buzzsawmonkey

re: #406 buzzsawmonkey

Ah. Composite, not "compound." Another error. Time to quit the field.

Hah! Victory is mine. Ii is great to crush your enemies, to see them fall at your feet -- to take their horses and goods and hear the lamentation of their women.
///

423 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:32:26pm

re: #406 buzzsawmonkey

There is also the "recurved" bow, an ancient advance over the simple one-arch bow.

424 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:33:00pm

re: #417 Walter L. Newton

Does your statement include the person that is the subject of the emails? I'm just interested. I am staying off line with this.

I've emailed Douglas Murray to ask him to clarify where he stands.

425 swamprat  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:33:19pm

re: #360 JHW

Don't know.

426 Syrah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:33:21pm

re: #394 Killian Bundy

Obama stinks of weak horse.

427 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:33:40pm

re: #424 Charles

I've emailed Douglas Murray to ask him to clarify where he stands.

Thanks.

428 Look At My New Grandbaby!  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:33:57pm

re: #375 Occasional Reader

Jared Diamond again; his thesis (IIRC) was that the wheel wasn't terribly useful without draft animals. And the Native Americans had the misfortune of not having any native species really suitable for morphing into draft animals.

They tried to harness ambulocetus, but those large animals fled into the ocean.

429 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:34:09pm

Anybody recall the title of the Vonnegut novel where future humans evolve back into sea-dwelling mammals?

It was awfully funny.

430 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:34:14pm

OT: I love HotAir as source of information, I really do. It's my second favorite blog. But I swear to SCIENCE that many of the people that comment on the threads there must use lead paint chips as a condiment.

431 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:34:18pm

re: #428 Alouette

They tried to harness ambulocetus, but those large animals fled into the ocean.

Slippery bastards!

432 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:34:23pm
Recurve bows made out of composite materials were used by, among other groups, the Scythians, Hyksos, Magyars, Huns, Greeks, Turks, Mongols, and Chinese. The recurve bow spread to Egypt and much of Asia in the second millennium BC. Presumably Greek and Phoenician influence would have introduced the recurve form to the rest of the Mediterranean region. The standard weapon of Roman imperial archers was a composite recurve, and the stiffening laths used to form the actual recurved ends have been found on Roman sites throughout the Empire, as far north as Bar Hill on the Antonine Wall in Scotland.[2]

From the wiki article on "Bow Shape"

433 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:34:26pm

re: #427 Walter L. Newton

Ah, I get it now.

434 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:34:48pm

re: #419 jaunte

I hope Stein emails Dembski and Behe and asks them to get back into the lab and produce something other than another book.

I have the feeling mr stein would complain all they can do is write books because the ruling class of Darwinists has expelled these men's works from any real inquiry. They've been "expelled" and are victims. Really- it just reinforces their pre-existing view. They willfully ignore the underlying problem that their work is shunned because it's not science.

435 Buster Bunny  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:34:49pm

re: #426 Syrah

Obama stinks of weak horse.

Told ya so. The most wonderful part about having a weak horse in the Whitehouse is that it will either train him to the real world or show the world what a real ass in the top job is all about.

436 jaunte  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:35:00pm

re: #429 Cato the Elder

Anybody recall the title of the Vonnegut novel where future humans evolve back into sea-dwelling mammals?

It was awfully funny.

Wasn't it Galapagos?

437 Jimmah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:35:20pm

re: #421 jcm

Buzz pointed that out. My satire meter is off after this.

I see - your satire detection equipment was damaged by a massive overload of actual creationism. You will recover though, don't worry;)

438 gmsc  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:35:29pm

re: #430 Slumbering Behemoth

OT: I love HotAir as source of information, I really do. It's my second favorite blog. But I swear to SCIENCE that many of the people that comment on the threads there must use lead paint chips as a condiment.

Updinged for accuracy and the "lead paint ships as a condiment" summation!

439 jcw46  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:35:31pm

re: #406 buzzsawmonkey

Neo Con since 9-11 had it right = composite bow

440 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:35:34pm

re: #429 Cato the Elder

Anybody recall the title of the Vonnegut novel where future humans evolve back into sea-dwelling mammals?

It was awfully funny.

Cats Cradle

441 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:35:42pm

re: #436 jaunte

Wasn't it Galapagos?

Yes, I think so. I read it aeons ago. (No pun intended.)

442 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:35:52pm

re: #381 taxfreekiller

Morphing is a real danger, classical liberals morphed into these , earth first environmental anti war loon commie Democrats we deal with now.

Nope. Leftists ripped off the 'liberal' label. Just like theocrats ripped off the 'conservative' label.

443 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:36:30pm

It was Galapagos.

Couldn't have no fish after ice-nine got in the ocean.

444 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:36:32pm

re: #426 Syrah

Obama stinks of weak horse dung.

fixed.

445 lawhawk  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:36:38pm

re: #394 Killian Bundy

It's actually worse than that... I suspect the Russians reneged on their earlier deal to provide supply lines through Central Asia. They're testing Obama, and Obama isn't showing himself to be a good student.

446 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:36:47pm

re: #429 Cato the Elder

Anybody recall the title of the Vonnegut novel where future humans evolve back into sea-dwelling mammals?

It was awfully funny.

Killgore Trout. (hehehehe)

447 jcm  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:36:59pm

re: #437 Jimmah

I see - your satire detection equipment was damaged by a massive overload of actual creationism. You will recover though, don't worry;)

LOL! I hope so, it gets to be a pain...

448 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:37:12pm

re: #424 Charles

I'm not expecting a reply. As we've seen with Geert many people are almost eager to compromise their principles for a perceived future gain or political advancement. Maybe I'm a little jaded but my expectations are pretty damn low.

449 Bobblehead  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:37:35pm

re: #418 Neo Con since 9-11

What you heard referred to as a compound bow was actually a composite bow.
/Archery team geek off

Anyone interested in the English longbow should read Bernard Cornwell's The Grail Quest series. Everything you need to know and then some.

450 CapeCoddah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:37:42pm

Ha, Bloomberg got bitten by a groundhog this morning!
I hope the groundhog was taken to the vet and given treatment to prevent it from catching anything from the mayor!
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

451 jaunte  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:38:09pm

re: #441 Occasional Reader

Plot summarty from wikipedia:
"Galápagos is the story of a small band of mismatched humans who get shipwrecked on the fictional island of Santa Rosalía in the Galápagos Islands after a global financial crisis has crippled the world's economy. Shortly thereafter, a disease renders all humans on earth infertile, with the exception of the people on Santa Rosalía, making them the last specimens of humankind. Over the next million years, their descendants, the only fertile humans left on the planet, eventually evolve into a species resembling seals: though possibly still able to walk upright (it is not explicitly mentioned, but it is stated that they occasionally catch land animals), they have a snout with teeth adapted for catching fish, a streamlined skull and flipper-like hands with rudimentary fingers."

Uh oh.

452 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:38:22pm
453 Long Nics are Looonnng  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:39:05pm

These three hour work days are going to kill me.

454 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:39:09pm

re: #452 Noam Sayin'

OT,

Is this My Pet Goat?

He probably read them one of his autobiographies.

455 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:39:10pm

re: #448 Killgore Trout

Mr Murray already stated he wasn't interested in VB and they should be shunned. It's quite possible he is just unaware of spencer's recent turning to fascist elements, but we'll have to wait and see.

456 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:39:20pm
457 Jimmah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:39:22pm

re: #240 Basho

I just found this - kind of a spin-off when you click the owl -

Image: conspiracy-20080927.gif

How to fool the world, captured (accurately) in one diagram/

458 WhiteRasta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:39:28pm

Stinks of weak horse... I love that.

459 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:39:28pm

re: #415 Mich-again

Lets just hope we don't get the double whammy of another dust bowl.

Dust bowl will never happen again, too much modern irrigation built interim, and croplands are now too geographically diversified across the US. We aren't going to have to worry about food, but the subcontinent and Africa certainly are in the next decade.

460 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:39:29pm

re: #451 jaunte

after a global financial crisis has crippled the world's economy.

Yep, I *did* recall that part (only the US dollar and Japanese yen still have value, IIRC... um, we'll see about the dollar).

461 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:39:56pm

re: #453 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

These three hour work days are going to kill me.

It's gonna kill us, you spend so much time around here :)

Hi FVB.

462 CapeCoddah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:39:59pm

re: #452 Noam Sayin'

OT,

Is this My Pet Goat?

Wow, Michelle looks simply delighted to be there!

463 Killian Bundy  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:40:24pm

re: #409 Occasional Reader

Oy.

Depressing news.

It's becoming readily apparent that we've elected a bunch of narcissistic hippie wannabes.

/aside from calculating how much personal gain they can scam from their rise to power, they're not serious people

464 Neo Con since 9-11  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:40:46pm

Victory finally us bow geeks hijack a thread. I was tired of all the gun nuts stealing all the threads.
/Clinging to my bow and my bible

465 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:41:02pm

re: #462 CapeCoddah

Wow, Michelle looks simply delighted to be there!

So Obama was reading to school children while Dashell was crashing and burning?

466 jorline  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:41:45pm

Departures tarnish president’s ethics drive

But many others are likely to feel angered that a Washington power broker skipped more than $140,000 (£97,000) of taxes, while ordinary people scramble to meet their liabilities at a time of mounting economic hardship.

“Tom Daschle, like Leona Helmsley, believes that only ‘the little people’ should pay taxes,” said Grover Norquist, president of Americans for Tax Reform, quoting a notorious New York real-estate investor. “He thinks he’s too important for that, and he gives the word hypocrisy a bad odour.”

Blame it on Bush.

467 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:41:54pm

I've been doing some test-prep for The Kid's next round of exams in two weeks. This is stuff I didn't learn about until I was in the EIGHTH grade. Atoms. Physical properties. Molecules.

They've already learned a bit about fossils and the fossil record: dinosaurs and lizards and birds. Nary a mention of humans cavorting amongst the dinos.

So, kiss my ass anyone out there who thinks that private, Evangelical schools are dedicated to I.D..

468 jcw46  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:41:56pm

re: #450 CapeCoddah

Ha, Bloomberg got bitten by a groundhog this morning!
I hope the groundhog was taken to the vet and given treatment to prevent it from catching anything from the mayor!
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Will they cut off Mike's head to test for rabies? :>

469 Long Nics are Looonnng  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:42:01pm

re: #461 Walter L. Newton
Your Karma % is higher than mine.

I hate you for it. You and your little bird too!

470 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:42:06pm

re: #462 CapeCoddah

Wow, Michelle looks simply delighted to be there!

Believe it or not, that's her "Pleasant First Lady" face.

I do not want to see that woman pissed off.

471 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:42:10pm

re: #446 Walter L. Newton

Galapagos.

472 CapeCoddah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:42:44pm

re: #465 Walter L. Newton

So Obama was reading to school children while Dashell was crashing and burning?

Yep, priorities, dontcha know!

473 Unakite  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:42:49pm

re: #415 Mich-again

Lets just hope we don't get the double whammy of another dust bowl.

Not until the snow stops. Algore should just keep giving talks all summer throughout the midwest.

474 astronmr20  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:42:50pm

O/T,

I am doing my best to stave off what I feel is a serious case of ODS. After days like today, however, I feel the sickness may take me over.


Is it okay to admit to ODS after South Korea gets invaded, Israel or Saudi Arabia gets nuked, Iran takes over Iraq, or we see a new 9/11 far worse than the last one? At that point, does ODS become common sense?

/Trying my best to be "supportive." Failing.

475 hazzyday  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:42:55pm

re: #157 Occasional Reader

The Sioux chose to live in the Great Plains, with stone age outerwear and no central heating. And you're telling me they weren't drunk?

odd I was just thinking about this today. I was wondering what the non buffalo hunting Sioux ate for dinner.

476 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:43:14pm

re: #452 Noam Sayin'

Have you found the body of your furry nemesis yet?

477 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:43:23pm

re: #465 Walter L. Newton

So Obama was reading to school children while Dashell was crashing and burning?

No, Obama wanted variety, so he was there to throw Daschle under a school bus. After that he read to the children to unwind after a good disassociation.

478 ArmyWife  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:43:23pm

re: #465 Walter L. Newton

You expected something different?

479 CapeCoddah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:43:37pm

re: #468 jcw46

Will they cut off Mike's head to test for rabies? :>

LOL, one needs a brain for rabies to infect.

480 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:43:43pm
481 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:44:08pm

re: #452 Noam Sayin'

OT,

Is this My Pet Goat?

Good catch, Noam. I apologize for pooping all over it.

482 Long Nics are Looonnng  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:44:15pm

re: #470 Noam Sayin'

Believe it or not, that's her "Pleasant First Lady" face.

I do not want to see that woman pissed off.

Maybe some kid just asked President Obama about Ayers or Wright or Daschel or Geitner or (insert name here)...

483 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:44:28pm

re: #467 MandyManners

I went and had drinks recently with a republican Catholic dad who has 3 sons in Catholic schools. When I started talking to him about ID/creationism and the "humans living with dinosaurs" thing, his eyes bugged out and he shook his head at such ignorance.

Hooray for private religious schools unafraid of reality!

484 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:44:34pm

re: #476 MandyManners

Have you found the body of your furry nemesis yet?

Holy crap, Noam, is that thing still alive?

485 katemaclaren  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:45:06pm

re: #51 Spiny Norman

I like O'Reilly.

486 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:45:34pm

re: #455 Sharmuta

I'm not optimistic. Spencer attends all the counter-jihad events. He writes books and articles and has a certain amount of prestige and notoriety. I'd be very surprised if Murray decided to snub him.

487 Natasha  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:46:23pm

In the article posted by Charles, we have an example of evolution... In other news, we see an example of devolution, exhibited by our lowlife politicians. How... symmetrical!

Oh, and for a bit of off-topic attention whoring... Happy birthday to me! The real party does not come till Saturday, but sushi and a martini were in order today.

488 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:46:39pm

I have some stuff to do, and then to bed. Good night.

489 katemaclaren  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:46:45pm

re: #467 MandyManners

I've been doing some test-prep for The Kid's next round of exams in two weeks. This is stuff I didn't learn about until I was in the EIGHTH grade. Atoms. Physical properties. Molecules.

They've already learned a bit about fossils and the fossil record: dinosaurs and lizards and birds. Nary a mention of humans cavorting amongst the dinos.

So, kiss my ass anyone out there who thinks that private, Evangelical schools are dedicated to I.D..

Mandy, my kids went to Catholic schools and I teach at two Catholic colleges--they do not teach evolution. So, I'm with you. I have a friend whose husband is headmaster of a Christian academy around here--and THEY don't teach ID or evolution, either.

490 WhiteRasta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:46:55pm

re: #459 Thanos

Yes. Especially with the new trendy thing of burning food for "alternative" fuel.

Who cares if black people starve?///

491 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:46:58pm

Folks, you might want to do a local search for a church of Christ near you.

492 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:47:01pm

re: #469 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Your Karma % is higher than mine. I hate you for it. You and your little bird too!

You sound like the f'n wicked witch of the north. You know where you can stick those ruby slippers. And why the fuck would you walk around in SLIPPERS. My goodness, they wouldn't even protect your feet if you stepped on one of those little freak munckins. You people in Oz are a strange bunch.

493 CapeCoddah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:47:06pm

re: #470 Noam Sayin'

Believe it or not, that's her "Pleasant First Lady" face.

I do not want to see that woman pissed off.

She could scare a rabid grizzly.

494 Bloodnok  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:47:13pm

re: #487 Natasha

In the article posted by Charles, we have an example of evolution... In other news, we see an example of devolution, exhibited by our lowlife politicians. How... symmetrical!

Oh, and for a bit of off-topic attention whoring... Happy birthday to me! The real party does not come till Saturday, but sushi and a martini were in order today.

Happy birthday!

495 Jimmah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:47:15pm

Nite folks...;)

496 jcw46  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:47:15pm

re: #469 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Your Karma % is higher than mine.

I hate you for it. You and your little bird too!

What?

497 Long Nics are Looonnng  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:47:31pm

re: #483 Sharmuta

Was that a date? Hmmm?

498 ArmyWife  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:47:34pm

We have truly entered Bizarro World.

President Obama seeks Russia deal to slash nuclear weapons

Can someone tell this cat it was Carter that said "Trust but verify" for the good of the nation? Ronnie won't mind.

499 garycooper  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:47:55pm

I was always a huge fan of National Geographic, until they embraced the myth of global warming. I lost a lot of respect for the whole organization around that. But, it doesn't mean they aren't "right" about evolution, just that I don't trust their extrapolations. I'd be looking into the real evidence behind these "morphs," if I was a serious student of the subject.

Evolution is real, and an established fact. The details are still a bit fuzzy, like the origins of the bear (I would speculate). These morphs are a little too neat, imho.

So was AGW, a few years back, when its proponents were using NG's endorsement as "proof" of its validity among scientists: [Link: news.nationalgeographic.com...]

500 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:48:01pm

re: #488 Occasional Reader

I have some stuff to do, and then to bed. Good night.

Did they find the body?

501 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:48:04pm

re: #487 Natasha

Happy birthday, may you enjoy many many more.

502 Long Nics are Looonnng  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:48:15pm

re: #496 jcw46

What?

What.

503 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:48:19pm

re: #489 katemaclaren

Mandy, my kids went to Catholic schools and I teach at two Catholic colleges--they do not teach evolution. So, I'm with you. I have a friend whose husband is headmaster of a Christian academy around here--and THEY don't teach ID or evolution, either.

The Catholic schools around here teach evolution. One of the sons of my Catholic friend has already discussed it with me, and he's only in 6th grade.

504 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:48:33pm

re: #497 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Was that a date? Hmmm?

No- he's married.

505 Bobblehead  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:48:34pm

re: #487 Natasha

In the article posted by Charles, we have an example of evolution... In other news, we see an example of devolution, exhibited by our lowlife politicians. How... symmetrical!

Oh, and for a bit of off-topic attention whoring... Happy birthday to me! The real party does not come till Saturday, but sushi and a martini were in order today.

Happy birthday and many, many more. BTW what kind of martini?

506 gmsc  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:48:51pm

re: #498 ArmyWife

We have truly entered Bizarro World.

President Obama seeks Russia deal to slash nuclear weapons

Can someone tell this cat it was Carter that said "Trust but verify" for the good of the nation? Ronnie won't mind.

"Trust everybody, but always cut the cards."
—Finley Peter Dunne

507 Long Nics are Looonnng  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:48:54pm

re: #504 Sharmuta

Oh.

508 CapeCoddah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:49:10pm

re: #485 katemaclaren

I like O'Reilly.

I thought I liked O'Reilly, when I first watched him. Then I watched him a second time. He is a self righteous horses ass, and dead wrong most of the time lately. He has taken to pandering.

509 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:49:12pm

Can't a man and woman have a drink together without more being made of it?

510 jorline  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:49:20pm

re: #487 Natasha

In the article posted by Charles, we have an example of evolution... In other news, we see an example of devolution, exhibited by our lowlife politicians. How... symmetrical!

Oh, and for a bit of off-topic attention whoring... Happy birthday to me! The real party does not come till Saturday, but sushi and a martini were in order today.

Happy Birthday, Natasha.

511 Syrah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:49:51pm

re: #509 Sharmuta

Can't a man and woman have a drink together without more being made of it?

Its possible, but not as much fun.

512 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:50:01pm

re: #481 MandyManners

No worries.

513 ArmyWife  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:50:34pm

re: #509 Sharmuta

That depends. Is the man Bill Clinton? Probably not. Is the woman Rosie O'Donnel? You bet your sweet patoot I can believe there was nothing going on!

514 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:50:47pm

re: #478 ArmyWife

You expected something different?

I'm the one that has been spouting off here saying he's not stupid, he knows what he is doing, don't minimize him.

But damn, he's gonna prove me wrong here. There is a whole ton of poop that has been going down in the last 14 days and even the MSM is tap dancing a mile a minute to keep up with his crap.

Maybe I'm wrong and Obama is a plain old clueless jerk. We'll see. Either way, we are in trouble.

515 Lee Coller  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:50:50pm

re: #38 Charles

Bill O'Reilly admits he said those words:

Ohhhkay.

Do I read that correctly, O'Reilly just called LGF a far left site?

516 Long Nics are Looonnng  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:50:51pm

re: #509 Sharmuta

Certainly. Went and had drinks with... eh. Sounded like a date. Heck for all I know you are married. Sorry I pry. And I'm paranoid. At least that's what people say behind my back.

517 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:51:03pm

re: #489 katemaclaren

Mandy, my kids went to Catholic schools and I teach at two Catholic colleges--they do not teach evolution. So, I'm with you. I have a friend whose husband is headmaster of a Christian academy around here--and THEY don't teach ID or evolution, either.

I am thankful that The Kid is a student.

518 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:51:14pm

re: #492 Walter L. Newton

You sound like the f'n wicked witch of the north. You know where you can stick those ruby slippers. And why the fuck would you walk around in SLIPPERS. My goodness, they wouldn't even protect your feet if you stepped on one of those little freak munckins. You people in Oz are a strange bunch.

Ah, The Wizard of Oz. Two women fighting over a pair of shoes.

519 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:51:16pm

re: #496 jcw46

What?

LOL

520 BatGuano  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:51:20pm

re: #375 Occasional Reader

Jared is also unaware of genetics. There was no mention of it.

521 Bobblehead  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:51:29pm

re: #509 Sharmuta

Can't a man and woman have a drink together without more being made of it?

The age old question.

522 Natasha  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:51:30pm

re: #498 ArmyWife

We have truly entered Bizarro World.

President Obama seeks Russia deal to slash nuclear weapons

Can someone tell this cat it was Carter that said "Trust but verify" for the good of the nation? Ronnie won't mind.

Oh my... Obama really must be stupid or naive (or both) to start this nonsense with Russia. Putin will eat this dumbass for lunch, and still be home for dinner.

523 WhiteRasta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:51:41pm

re: #474 astronmr20

You know, I would not care if the Soddomite Kingdom got nuked tomorrow.

We (America) only get 12% of our oil from them. Quite frankly after 9/11, I don't give a shit what happens to them.

524 garycooper  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:51:59pm

re: #487 Natasha

In the article posted by Charles, we have an example of evolution... In other news, we see an example of devolution, exhibited by our lowlife politicians. How... symmetrical!

Oh, and for a bit of off-topic attention whoring... Happy birthday to me! The real party does not come till Saturday, but sushi and a martini were in order today.

Happy Birthday, Natasha! I would never ask a lady her age, but I will volunteer my next one, coming up on Feb. 13th: The Dreaded Five-O!

Tip one for me. ;)

525 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:52:10pm
526 Attaboid  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:52:38pm

What a difference a few million years make.

/sung to music

527 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:53:35pm

re: #518 OldLineTexan

Ah, The Wizard of Oz. Two women fighting over a pair of shoes.

Some of the books are about the silver economic fiddle that was going on in the country at the turn of the century.

528 CapeCoddah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:53:47pm

re: #513 ArmyWife

That depends. Is the man Bill Clinton? Probably not. Is the woman Rosie O'Donnel? You bet your sweet patoot I can believe there was nothing going on!

Bill is partial to ugly women, usually in need of rhinoplasty, at the very least.

529 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:53:49pm

re: #516 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Trust me- this gentleman and I are strictly friends.

530 Edge  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:53:54pm

re: #498 ArmyWife

We have truly entered Bizarro World.

President Obama seeks Russia deal to slash nuclear weapons

Jimmy Carter II

531 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:54:05pm
532 Long Nics are Looonnng  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:54:11pm

Drove past a buffalo farm (not a ranch in VA), stopped my car, walked over to the fence trying to get a little closer. Big ole' bastards.

Be easy to kill too. He just stared at me, didn't budge.

533 irish rose  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:54:11pm

Sorry for the OT... I'm in need of a free parental control add-on for Firefox.
Any ideas?

534 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:54:17pm

Happy Birthday, Natasha! And many more.

535 garycooper  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:54:32pm

re: #508 CapeCoddah

I thought I liked O'Reilly, when I first watched him. Then I watched him a second time. He is a self righteous horses ass, and dead wrong most of the time lately. He has taken to pandering.

I couldn't agree more, about O'Reilly. I've never liked him, even when I agreed with him. The only thing I like about his show now is Dennis Miller.

536 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:54:59pm

re: #527 Walter L. Newton

Some of the books are about the silver economic fiddle that was going on in the country at the turn of the century.

A minor regret of mine is that I did not purchase an entire set of "Oz" books at an antique "mall" the wife and I once visited.

537 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:55:09pm

re: #525 taxfreekiller

tfk way mean.

Several buffalo heads around the place, great grand father kept some killed by the .50 cal guns of the hunters, and some we have found over the years,

any how I have two of them on the hearth in front of the fire place,
any time we get out of state newbies , I let them look over the stuff we have some of it real old, they most always stop to look at the buffalo heads real close, then they ask ,,,

Wow, how did the Indians shoot arrows through those thick skulls,

" My answer, " Apache Men Way Strong" you like uh?""

ms tfk ends it right there with the truth,,,

LOL

538 Natasha  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:55:09pm

re: #528 CapeCoddah

Bill is partial to ugly women, usually in need of rhinoplasty, at the very least.

That, and liposuction... Oh no... Does that mean Rosie would be fair game? Shudder! Pass the brain-bleach (aka vodka).

539 Long Nics are Looonnng  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:55:21pm

re: #529 Sharmuta

Trust me- this gentleman and I are strictly friends.

Of course. No sarc tag either. Just, of course.

540 CapeCoddah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:55:24pm

re: #518 OldLineTexan

Ah, The Wizard of Oz. Two women fighting over a pair of shoes.

Rflmao! that is perfect! Never thought of it that way.

541 WhiteRasta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:55:36pm

re: #530 Edge

What century is the Big O living in?

It's only been 2 weeks... Lord have mercy.

542 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:57:14pm

re: #532 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Drove past a buffalo farm (not a ranch in VA), stopped my car, walked over to the fence trying to get a little closer. Big ole' bastards. Be easy to kill too. He just stared at me, didn't budge.

We have herds of them just about 10 miles from my apartment over near Indian Hills on I70 (going west of here). There is even a turnout on the highway so you can view them from the shoulder.

543 ArmyWife  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:57:20pm

re: #514 Walter L. Newton

I understand. I've been in the line that is marked "this guy is a far cry from brilliant". He is and has been a pawn of others who may qualify as brilliant, and certainly qualify as conniving. Sadly, Obama has begun to think on his own, believing he was what people kept saying he was. The result? 14 days of comedy gold, if only it wasn't the real world.

544 WhiteRasta  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:57:29pm

re: #531 Iron Fist

In the place we used to call Great Britain, they have sword control laws...

545 Unakite  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:57:38pm

re: #459 Thanos

Dust bowl will never happen again, too much modern irrigation built interim, and croplands are now too geographically diversified across the US. We aren't going to have to worry about food, but the subcontinent and Africa certainly are in the next decade.

With all due respect, I don't like the term "never." You're correct that crops are geographically diversified and this certainly helps with the food supply, but that does not preclude severe drought conditions recurring in specific areas. Societal "Dust Bowl," maybe not, but meteorological "dust bowl," well, never say never.

546 Killian Bundy  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:57:49pm
547 ArmyWife  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:57:51pm

re: #532 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

He thought you had cookies.

548 Natasha  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:58:22pm

Yay! Lizards wishing me a happy birthday! Thank you guys! I am flattered and humbled :) It's a good birthday, overall. Would be better if some hot IDF operative showed up at my door as a birthday treat. Hey, a girl can dream!

549 Bobblehead  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:58:22pm

re: #541 WhiteRasta

What century is the Big O living in?

It's only been 2 weeks... Lord have mercy.

He wants all his weaknesses out there within the first month.

550 gmsc  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:58:32pm

OT: My local paper had a front page story about the stimulus bill today. About 7 or 8 paragraphs down, there is this paragraph in the story:

This line has been inserted into the story to point out how ineffective Richard Martinson is as an editor. If he misses this line, and it shows up in the print edition of the newspaper, it will be pointed out to him as he is being fired.

I haven't heard any details, but I'm guessing he'll be at the unemployment office tomorrow.

551 ArmyWife  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:59:03pm

re: #550 gmsc

oh dear!

552 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:59:03pm

re: #541 WhiteRasta

What century is the Big O living in?

It's only been 2 weeks... Lord have mercy.

Hey Barry ... instead of this "First 100 Days" crap, maybe we can cut it short and just go with "First 100 Fuck-ups". Whadda ya think?

/Tom Daschle, Expert Government Guy

553 Unakite  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:59:17pm

re: #475 hazzyday

odd I was just thinking about this today. I was wondering what the non buffalo hunting Sioux ate for dinner.

Maizeburgers?

554 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:59:17pm
555 lobo91  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 7:59:45pm

re: #538 Natasha

That, and liposuction... Oh no... Does that mean Rosie would be fair game? Shudder! Pass the brain-bleach (aka vodka).

There's not a big enough liposuction machine in the world for her.

556 Mich-again  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:00:16pm

re: #517 MandyManners

I am thankful that The Kid is a student.

12 years of Catholic school here. Learned about evolution and that Genesis was not supposed to be the literal story of creation. I don't know what that other poster is talking about. To imply that the Catholic Church pushes what we call "creationism" as in caveman kids were sharing the playground with dinosaurs, thats pure BS.

557 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:00:29pm

re: #547 ArmyWife

He thought you had cookies.

Buffalo like pie.

558 Natasha  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:01:33pm

re: #555 lobo91

There's not a big enough liposuction machine in the world for her.

(...will NOT crack "suction" jokes... will NOT crack "suck-tion" jokes...)
Aaaagh! but it is sooo tempting to crack one!

559 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:01:37pm

re: #464 Neo Con since 9-11

Victory finally us bow geeks hijack a thread. I was tired of all the gun nuts stealing all the threads.
/Clinging to my bow and my bible

Don't neglect the spear-throwers! Let's hear it for atlatls and woomeras!

560 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:01:39pm

re: #550 gmsc

That is just awesome. Talk about a take-down.

Let us know what develops...

561 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:01:48pm

re: #543 ArmyWife

I understand. I've been in the line that is marked "this guy is a far cry from brilliant". He is and has been a pawn of others who may qualify as brilliant, and certainly qualify as conniving. Sadly, Obama has begun to think on his own, believing he was what people kept saying he was. The result? 14 days of comedy gold, if only it wasn't the real world.

Well you know something. I would rather him know just what he is doing and drag it all down as planned, then to find out that we really can have the head of the most powerful country in the world and find out he is a savant.

I mean, if that is the actual fact, then we are fucked. That means no one up there is in control of a damn thing. That means no one up there cares. That means the only thing that they are doing up there is finding ways to put as much money, influence, power and people into their pockets.

562 Slumbering Behemoth  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:01:48pm

re: #491 MandyManners

Folks, you might want to do a local search for a church of Christ near you.

Why, is yours missing?

/I know, I know. Sometimes I only make myself laugh.

563 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:01:59pm

At the end of Vonnegut's Galapagos humans evolve into semi aquatic creatures...

"And people still laugh about as much as they ever did, despite their shrunken brains. If a bunch of them are lying around on a beach, and one of them farts, everybody else around laughs and laughs, just as people would have done a million years ago."

..and so it goes.

564 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:02:05pm
565 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:04:11pm

re: #563 Killgore Trout

At the end of Vonnegut's Galapagos humans evolve into semi aquatic creatures...

..and so it goes.

Sounds like Albee's Seascape, that's a play about a conversation between a human couple and a evolving sea creature couple who just crawled up on the beach.

566 jcw46  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:04:21pm

re: #509 Sharmuta

Can't a man and woman have a drink together without more being made of it?

Well, if you've never met each other before and this was a "hey let's meet at this place and chat" cause of some non-physical connection then Yeah.

However; Women maybe can have male-friends and it's ok (although propinquity is always lurking in the background to grab you).
Men though do not have women "friends". Any woman a man has for a friend is perceived in his mind as a "possibility". It's just the way we're built biologically. It's evolution if you will. i.e. the guy who bangs the most passes the most genes on and one of those genes is labeled "try to bang any woman in your immediate vicinity". Also Patience. i.e. gene labeled "if I just hang around long enough she might bang me".

See with women it's "get to know you and then have sex". With men it's "have sex then get to know you". Maybe. I'll call you later. I'm just going out for a pack of cigarettes. I'll be right back. I've got to take my car in to get fixed.

Men know this about ourselves which is why if you have a male partner, they will not like you having "male friends" cause we know what those guys are thinking.

567 JCM  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:04:56pm

re: #533 irish rose

Sorry for the OT... I'm in need of a free parental control add-on for Firefox.
Any ideas?

Glubble...

568 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:05:56pm

re: #567 JCM

Glubble...

Holy cow, somebody said "evolve into an aquatic creature" and JCM is out there trying!

569 lostlakehiker  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:07:10pm

re: #38 Charles

Bill O'Reilly admits he said those words:

Ohhhkay.

There is a fact that should see the light of day in this debate. Pat Buchanan denounced Sen. Phil Gramm because Gramm had taken an Asian wife. (In fliers distributed before a primary in Louisiana, back when both were running for the Republican presidential nomination.) Bill O'Reilly's wife is Asian.

O'Reilly isn't in the Pat Buchanan camp. He just isn't.

570 Dustyvet  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:07:49pm

re: #567 JCM

Glubble...

We had a turkey on the farm who used to Glubble, kept him the off Thanks Giving table.

571 Natasha  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:07:50pm

Can I evolve into a "vodkatic" creature, instead of plain old "aquatic"? Vodka literally means "little water" in Russian.

572 swamprat  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:08:06pm

re: #514 Walter L. Newton


I am afraid that you are correct. I was hoping for a sly, devious cunning Chicago politician, passing himself off as a naive do-gooder. Nope. He actually believes what he was taught by the popular culture. We are screwed. It's a hard world. The last thing we need is an honest sweetness-and-light leader. We had one. His name was Carter. I liked him, but he sucked.

573 garycooper  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:08:27pm

re: #561 Walter L. Newton

Well you know something. I would rather him know just what he is doing and drag it all down as planned, then to find out that we really can have the head of the most powerful country in the world and find out he is a savant.

I mean, if that is the actual fact, then we are fucked. That means no one up there is in control of a damn thing. That means no one up there cares. That means the only thing that they are doing up there is finding ways to put as much money, influence, power and people into their pockets.

If you lived in southeastern Michigan, like me, you would take all that for granted by now. We're on our own, brother.

574 Unakite  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:09:01pm

re: #483 Sharmuta

I went and had drinks recently with a republican Catholic dad who has 3 sons in Catholic schools. When I started talking to him about ID/creationism and the "humans living with dinosaurs" thing, his eyes bugged out and he shook his head at such ignorance.

Hooray for private religious schools unafraid of reality!

Republican Catholic (Catholic Republican?) dad with two sons in public school (ok, can't have everything). Never occurred to me that there was a conflict, nor were we taught anything like that when I was in Catholic elementary school. I always saw religion and science as completely separate. When I was growing up, it never occurred to me that they were conflicting or incompatible (anyway, just my two cents).

575 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:10:03pm

re: #543 ArmyWife

I understand. I've been in the line that is marked "this guy is a far cry from brilliant". He is and has been a pawn of others who may qualify as brilliant, and certainly qualify as conniving. Sadly, Obama has begun to think on his own, believing he was what people kept saying he was. The result? 14 days of comedy gold, if only it wasn't the real world.

That is a perfect statement of what's been in my head about Obama.

576 JCM  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:11:32pm

re: #568 OldLineTexan

Holy cow, somebody said "evolve into an aquatic creature" and JCM is out there trying!

Burble...

577 Walter L. Newton  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:12:12pm

re: #572 swamprat

I am afraid that you are correct. I was hoping for a sly, devious cunning Chicago politician, passing himself off as a naive do-gooder. Nope. He actually believes what he was taught by the popular culture. We are screwed. It's a hard world. The last thing we need is an honest sweetness-and-light leader. We had one. His name was Carter. I liked him, but he sucked.

At least Carter seem to make it up all by himself. Obama is acting like a 7 year old, grabbing for this shiny object and that shiny object and finding out some of those shiny objects are sharp, and not all full of sweetness and light.

Carter came out of a "idealistic christian" background and at least he had his heart in the direction he wanted to go in, workable or not, he was basically sincere.

578 garycooper  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:12:50pm

re: #548 Natasha

Yay! Lizards wishing me a happy birthday! Thank you guys! I am flattered and humbled :) It's a good birthday, overall. Would be better if some hot IDF operative showed up at my door as a birthday treat. Hey, a girl can dream!

[Link: travel.webshots.com...]

You rang?

579 Natasha  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:14:46pm

re: #578 garycooper

Wow... I... am... speechless...

580 garycooper  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:15:24pm

re: #575 reine.de.tout

That is a perfect statement of what's been in my head about Obama.

Me three, and I really tried to keep the mind open and optimistic about our new Mess...er, President. It's just not working out. I guess I'm just not that into him. :(

581 CapeCoddah  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:17:08pm

re: #569 lostlakehiker

There is a fact that should see the light of day in this debate. Pat Buchanan denounced Sen. Phil Gramm because Gramm had taken an Asian wife. (In fliers distributed before a primary in Louisiana, back when both were running for the Republican presidential nomination.) Bill O'Reilly's wife is Asian.

O'Reilly isn't in the Pat Buchanan camp. He just isn't.

O' Reilly''s wife, Maureen McPhilmy is Asian? She does not look it.

582 Pawn of the Oppressor  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:17:53pm

Thanks for the heads-up... Will have to set it on U-Verse.

I only learned recently that whales came from land creatures. Blew my freakin' mind, man... "Like wait, something went back INTO the water? And became the whale? Duuude"

Also cool to watch on Nat'l Geo. channel is the series "In The Womb" which shows the development of animals... well... in the womb. They combine footage and some really, really good 3D modeling to give an overall picture of what goes on. So far they've done episodes for cats, dogs, and elephants. Being a cat owner I watched the cat episode first.

583 garycooper  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:18:30pm

re: #579 Natasha

Wow... I... am... speechless...

Just send me an IDF female on my b-day, and we're even. Make sure she's at least 21, height and weight proportionate. ;)

584 Natasha  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 8:20:40pm

re: #583 garycooper

Just send me an IDF female on my b-day, and we're even. Make sure she's at least 21, height and weight proportionate. ;)

Sounds like a fair exchange, to me!

585 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 9:15:46pm

re: #546 Killian Bundy

It is pessimistic in my estimation to try and ban nuclear weapons, that assumes you think humanity will never grow up.

586 Steve  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 9:23:59pm

re: #550 gmsc

OT: My local paper had a front page story about the stimulus bill today. About 7 or 8 paragraphs down, there is this paragraph in the story:

I haven't heard any details, but I'm guessing he'll be at the unemployment office tomorrow.

Do they have that on-line? I would love to see it.

587 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 9:28:03pm

From the book "Structrures"by J.E. Gordon:

"In fact more bows are more or less pre-stressed, in the sense that some kind of effort is needed to string them. However, since the long bow is a 'self-bow', that is to say, it is made from a stave at has been split from a log of timber and is therefore initially nearly straight, the effect in this case was small. It is much easier to arrainge for the best initial shape with a composite bow, and these usually had a very characteristic form, from which we get the shape of a "Cupids bow'.

Because the strain energy of horn and tendon, as materials, is better than yew, a composite bow can be made shorter and lighter than a wooden one. This is why we talk of a wooden bow as a 'long' bow. THe composite bow could be made small enough to be used on horseback, as was indeed done by thee Parthians and the Tartars. The parthian bow was handy enough for the cavalrymen to shoot backwards, as they retreated, at their Roman pursuers; from this we get the phrase, 'a Parthian shot.'

Anyway, "Structures" by J.E. Gordon is a great book.

Good Night All.

588 lostlakehiker  Tue, Feb 3, 2009 10:32:05pm

The plains Indians, with their stone aged weapons and low population and innocence of real war, would have had no chance whatever against the Romans, the Mongols, or even the Gauls.

Cortez destroyed the mightiest Amerind Empire of them all, and did it almost offhand. Put the Europeans, Indians-of-Asia, Chinese, etc. against them in war, and their lack of effective weapons and command-and-control traditions mixing initiative with obedience would doom them.

589 NoelArmourson  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 1:29:59am

re: #464 Neo Con since 9-11

Victory finally us bow geeks hijack a thread. I was tired of all the gun nuts stealing all the threads.
/Clinging to my bow and my bible

Along with other victims of Laughtenbergization...

590 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 4:58:48am
591 loggiedog  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 5:29:56am

what doesn't make sense in that picture is how something so mammalian can start to look reptilian on its way to becoming the precursor to a whale. Then again, maybe it's just the rendering, because other renderings of the Ambulocetus make it look like a whale with feet, but this looks like a mammalian crocodile

592 palarson  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 6:12:18am

I hate to state the obvious but the creature featured in graphic form at the head of this post appears to have "lost" some things over the course of its two million year history. That's not the evolution we were told about.

593 Jimmah  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 6:22:17am

re: #592 palarson

What you know about evolution could be written on the back of a postage stamp.

594 Jimmah  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 6:31:05am

re: #447 jcm

LOL! I hope so, it gets to be a pain...

Let's see if you can handle this test: Creationism or Satire?

595 Jimmah  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 6:36:16am

re: #594 Jimmah

oops - embedding disabled (why?)

Here' s a viable link:

Creationism or Satire - you decide.

596 Ojoe  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 7:18:31am

re: #590 taxfreekiller

Is there no photo of Cochise?

I have never seen one.

597 palarson  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 7:42:51am

re: #593 Jimmah

What you know about evolution could be written on the back of a postage stamp.

You are correct. "Evolutionary theory is fantasy"

Thanks for the suggestion.

598 Jimmah  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 7:56:54am

re: #597 palarson

You are correct. "Evolutionary theory is fantasy"

Thanks for the suggestion.

And this Hovindism is all you 'know' about evolution. LOL - thanks for confirming that.

599 Basho  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 8:02:34am

re: #592 palarson

I hate to state the obvious but the creature featured in graphic form at the head of this post appears to have "lost" some things over the course of its two million year history. That's not the evolution we were told about.

lol wtf?

600 Basho  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 8:06:11am

re: #591 loggiedog

what doesn't make sense in that picture is how something so mammalian can start to look reptilian...

I think the lack of fur and such is causing your mind to instantly visualize reptile.

Check out these false color images:
Image: Dorudon_BW.jpg
Image: Durodon.gif

601 Basho  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 8:12:00am

re: #533 irish rose

Sorry for the OT... I'm in need of a free parental control add-on for Firefox.
Any ideas?

[Link: addons.mozilla.org...]

602 Salamantis  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 8:19:09am

re: #592 palarson

I hate to state the obvious but the creature featured in graphic form at the head of this post appears to have "lost" some things over the course of its two million year history. That's not the evolution we were told about.

I don't know who was telling you about evolution, but in the process, behavioral traits and anatomical configurations can disappear as well as they can appear, specifically when the environmental conditions that hitherto selected them change to the point that the traits or configurations in question become survival and/or reproductive liabilities rather than assets.

603 Salamantis  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 8:22:53am

re: #597 palarson

You are correct. "Evolutionary theory is fantasy"

Thanks for the suggestion.

A little hint:

Fantasy is that which cannot be supported by empirical evidence. Evolutionary theory is so supported, in spades, but that with which you devoutly wish to replace it is not evidentially supported at all.

So who's the actual fantasist here?

604 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 8:28:41am

re: #599 Basho

lol wtf?

I was thinking the same thing. How do you respond to that? There's no point in telling him where he's gone wrong because he doesn't care to learn the truth. Stubbornly clinging to willful ignorance is no way to go through life.

605 Jimmah  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 8:59:42am

re: #604 Sharmuta

He's a troll with nothing whatsoever to contribute to this discussion. His goal is simply to annoy.

606 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 9:39:33am

re: #592 palarson

I hate to state the obvious but the creature featured in graphic form at the head of this post appears to have "lost" some things over the course of its two million year history. That's not the evolution we were told about.

You're right! How could we not have seen this? It's a trick by atheist scientist Nazis, and there's the proof, staring you right in the face!

It's all so simple once you see through the conspiracy.

607 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 9:55:14am

Compass International

Another big creationist group pushing some really radical agendas right up there with the DI.

608 palarson  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 11:37:29am

re: #602 Salamantis

I don't know who was telling you about evolution, but in the process, behavioral traits and anatomical configurations can disappear as well as they can appear, specifically when the environmental conditions that hitherto selected them change to the point that the traits or configurations in question become survival and/or reproductive liabilities rather than assets.

The essential unsupported component of evolutionary theory is that random genetic mutations occur which produce more complex behavior... That a man can become a porpoise I little doubt. That he can become a complete jackass I can positively attest.

609 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 11:38:12am

re: #608 palarson

You're hopeless.

610 Salamantis  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 1:01:16pm

re: #608 palarson

The essential unsupported component of evolutionary theory is that random genetic mutations occur which produce more complex behavior... That a man can become a porpoise I little doubt. That he can become a complete jackass I can positively attest.

When artifactual retroviral DNA sequences are spliced into genomes, this adds information, and therefore complexity.

611 Mr Secul  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 1:07:53pm

re: #592 palarson

I hate to state the obvious but the creature featured in graphic form at the head of this post appears to have "lost" some things over the course of its two million year history. That's not the evolution we were told about.

You are some combination of: stupid, ignorant, dishonest.

I doubt that there are many discussions of whale evolution that don't mention that their ancestors evolved by losing their legs.

But let's be generous and assume that you are merely ignorant because that can be fixed.

Organisms can lose or acquire features. If a feature isn't being used and has a cost then natural selection can remove the feature. If it has no use but little cost then it can persist until random mutations remove the feature.

There is a tension between the cost of a feature and its usefulness. All genes are copied and the copies are not always perfect. In addition DNA can be damaged. So there is always entropy acting to degrade the genome. If a feature is useful then it is maintained in the population by natural selection. If its not useful then it can be lost.

Have you never heard of cave fish? Or that internal parasites are often vastly simplified compared to their non-parasitic cousins?

Humans are vertebrates that have lost their tails. They can be seen on human embryos but are lost before birth.

612 JohnH  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 1:31:31pm

When something like this happens:

[Link: dsc.discovery.com...]

how does that affect the evolutionary process? Does it have to, in effect, start over because 90% of life is gone? Does the evolution occur from the remnants of what survives a mass extinction?

Obviously, I have a problem because I don't think there is enough time for all of this to occur.

613 cracker-crusader  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 1:33:46pm

Of course it appears that snazzy morphing sequences show nothing other than that a donut is topologically equivalent to a coffee cup...

This sort of little "movie" bugs the heck outta me. A cheap graphics trick that hides far more than it shows. And people watch it and think "cool, yup, that's how it works". Of course no working analysis of the internal physiology, or metabolic issues, or other such things. Typical of the new science: propose hypothesis, then gather data to corroborate. If data doesn't fit model, massage till it does... That's not to say they're not right. Just that they're not right BY THEIR REASONING!

By the way, why haven't the coelocanths or sharks evolved much in 55 000 000+ years? That seems odd. It would appear that most creatures currently living are highly successful, including the shark. So why are some evolving and not others? External pressure absent? But that would mean organisms have within themselves at cellular level, a built-in environmental compensatory mechanism, that a priori knows where the endstate is. Hard to fathom I reckon...

614 Salamantis  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 1:35:29pm

re: #612 JohnH

When something like this happens:

[Link: dsc.discovery.com...]

how does that affect the evolutionary process? Does it have to, in effect, start over because 90% of life is gone? Does the evolution occur from the remnants of what survives a mass extinction?

Obviously, I have a problem because I don't think there is enough time for all of this to occur.

There have been five great extinctions in the past billion years. But terrestrial life began at least 3 1/2 billion years ago, which would be 1.75 million times the span of time between Jesus and now, so yes, there has been plenty of time for evolution to occur. And it never had to start from scratch; it simply proceeded from those organisms that survived the extinctions.

615 Mr Secul  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 1:45:56pm

re: #608 palarson

The essential unsupported component of evolutionary theory is that random genetic mutations occur which produce more complex behavior

The majority of vertebrates have excellent color vision, they can have 3, 4, or 5 different color receptor cells.

Most mammals have lost some of those receptor cell types and can only see two different colors. This may be because early mammals were nocturnal or burrow dwellers.

Old world monkeys and some species of new world monkeys gained 3 color vision by gene duplication followed by mutation.

This was two separate gene duplication events, one in the old world and one in the new world. We know because we can read the nucleotide sequences and see that the duplications copied nucleotides on either side of the gene and that these areas have different lengths between the two populations.

So we had gene duplication followed by mutation leading to more complex behavior.

616 Salamantis  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 1:46:26pm

re: #613 cracker-crusader

Of course it appears that snazzy morphing sequences show nothing other than that a donut is topologically equivalent to a coffee cup...

This sort of little "movie" bugs the heck outta me. A cheap graphics trick that hides far more than it shows. And people watch it and think "cool, yup, that's how it works". Of course no working analysis of the internal physiology, or metabolic issues, or other such things. Typical of the new science: propose hypothesis, then gather data to corroborate. If data doesn't fit model, massage till it does... That's not to say they're not right. Just that they're not right BY THEIR REASONING!

Actually, scientists get such things as Nobel Prizes, tenured Ivy league University positions, fat research grants in perpetuity, and significan mentions in the annals of science history by disproving existing theories. It is highly significant that no scientist over the past 150 years has been able to grab this brass ring with regard to evolutionary theory - and not from lack of trying.

By the way, why haven't the coelocanths or sharks evolved much in 55 000 000+ years? That seems odd. It would appear that most creatures currently living are highly successful, including the shark. So why are some evolving and not others? External pressure absent? But that would mean organisms have within themselves at cellular level, a built-in environmental compensatory mechanism, that a priori knows where the endstate is. Hard to fathom I reckon...

No, you are thinking Lamarckian, not Darwinian. Individual organisms need no such means by which environments can reach into genomes and either change them or not. Rather, those mutations that code for physiological configurations or behavioral traits that prove to be liabilities rather than assets when the organisms that possess them are confronted by their surrounding environments simply do not survive to reproductive age, and the mutations fail to replicate and die out. In the cases where organisms have evolved a practically seamless and optimum relationship to their ecological niches, additional surviving mutations are rare indeed, and those organism populations do not demonstrate much change over time.

btw: 99+% of all species that have ever existed are currently extinct, so we cannot judge the success coefficient without looking at all the failures. It reminds me of this guy who was walking around testifying that God saved him from drowning when a ship he was on went down, to which a sceptic replied, what about all those countless ship passengers who drowned?

617 Mr Secul  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 1:52:49pm

re: #613 cracker-crusader

Google for shark evolution and read the hits. Bottom line: sharks have evolved.

This is a good example.

618 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 2:25:08pm

re: #613 cracker-crusader

Of course it appears that snazzy morphing sequences show nothing other than that a donut is topologically equivalent to a coffee cup...

This sort of little "movie" bugs the heck outta me. A cheap graphics trick that hides far more than it shows.

You're right! They're trying to trick us! The scientific establishment is engaged in a massive conspiracy to promote atheism and heavy drinking, by lying and covering up the true facts with cheap graphics and meaningless mountains of physical evidence!

Why, those dastardly villains! Thank goodness we have people like you to blow the whistle on their machinations.

619 Basho  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 3:35:17pm

re: #612 JohnH

When something like this happens:

[Link: dsc.discovery.com...]

how does that affect the evolutionary process? Does it have to, in effect, start over because 90% of life is gone? Does the evolution occur from the remnants of what survives a mass extinction?

Obviously, I have a problem because I don't think there is enough time for all of this to occur.

Dude, seriously, mass extinctions have occurred many times in history. Just think a little.

620 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 3:38:31pm

By the way, I got a nice email from National Geographic's "digital consultant," thanking me for this link.

621 cracker-crusader  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 11:16:45pm

Geez Charles, lemme see.

You're an Anthropogenic Global Warming skeptic, but somehow the high priest of this video clip?

So please tell me why it is you're an anthropogenic global warming skeptic again? Oh wait, that IS a vast conspiracy perpetrated on an unsuspecting public by an evil NGO called the IPCC, ostensibly to hamstring the runaway success of American capitalism in favour of the sclerotic and glacial bureaucracies of Europe, Asia and Africa...

Why accept one conspiracy theory and not the other?

Slamantis, no one in 6000 years of human history has been able to disprove the existence of God, so I fail to see your point. Failure to disprove is insufficient, therefore, don't you think?

The crux of the matter is this: Is "evolution" ultimately a belief system? It is hardly valid to claim "absence of evidence is proof evolution didn't happen". So the question you have to ask as a true scientist is this: "What constitutes disproof of evolution?" One counterexample? Or is evolution simply not logically disprovable. If it is not, then it is a religious belief (or at best a metaphysical position). That has to be the starting point for any real scientific hypothesis. Physics has many disprovable hypotheses. Which are the disprovable ones for the evolution hypothesis?

Again, the extinction of species is an interesting conundrum. But the coelocanth has not evolved, and some sharks have and some haven't. Genomes are cool. Do they have free will? Are they self-aware? Or is their state-space randomly-determined? Or all of the above?

Not to be overly confrontational, but I find we all have a particular belief system around which are prepared to utterly suspend our usual healthy skepticism. For many people that is AGW. I find "evolution" no more convincing, and the beliefs of the "scientific community" are compromised by its willingness to toss skepticism overboard on the AGW issue I'm afraid.

If the only defence for evolution is "it's an established fact, so there" we are in a great deal of trouble. It is not demonstrable on the macro scale.

Again, I don't say it didn't happen, only that those who claim it did in the way they say it did, have not adequately made their case to me. I eagerly await more compelling evidence than the shells and husks of long-dead creatures. Heck, if someone can convert a dog into a fish in a lab, that'd pretty much do it for me...

622 cracker-crusader  Wed, Feb 4, 2009 11:26:38pm

Mr Secul

"many of the (shark) families have been with us for 150 million years"... errr.. sorry dude, kinda made my point there for me.

Of course the glaring error my argument makes (did you guys catch it?) is how I accept that info, but not other info that'd undermine my position.

I can only assume that we both accept the fossil record as is, age and all. That doesn't account for the fact some families of shark have remained unchanged through 4 ice ages, plus a period where parts of the planet suffered +30 deg C temeratures day and night, year-round.

I don't know, that seems to me to be pretty catastrophic external stimulus for adaptation, no? And let's not forget the mass extinction of about 165 000 000 years ago (and what about the Pre-Cambrian explosion of species?)

I dunno, the case for me is still weak

623 Salamantis  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 4:30:19am

re: #621 cracker-crusader

Geez Charles, lemme see.

You're an Anthropogenic Global Warming skeptic, but somehow the high priest of this video clip?

So please tell me why it is you're an anthropogenic global warming skeptic again? Oh wait, that IS a vast conspiracy perpetrated on an unsuspecting public by an evil NGO called the IPCC, ostensibly to hamstring the runaway success of American capitalism in favour of the sclerotic and glacial bureaucracies of Europe, Asia and Africa...

Why accept one conspiracy theory and not the other?

Because evolutionary theory has been around for 150 years with no credible evidence against it and masses for it, while AGW has only been around for a couple of decades, and researchers are already fleeing it because the evidence doesn't support it?

Slamantis, no one in 6000 years of human history has been able to disprove the existence of God, so I fail to see your point. Failure to disprove is insufficient, therefore, don't you think?

I'm just pointing out that creationism is religion, not science, and doesn't belong in public high school science class.

The crux of the matter is this: Is "evolution" ultimately a belief system? It is hardly valid to claim "absence of evidence is proof evolution didn't happen". So the question you have to ask as a true scientist is this: "What constitutes disproof of evolution?" One counterexample? Or is evolution simply not logically disprovable. If it is not, then it is a religious belief (or at best a metaphysical position). That has to be the starting point for any real scientific hypothesis. Physics has many disprovable hypotheses. Which are the disprovable ones for the evolution hypothesis?

Fossil rabbits in the precambrian, identical twins with divergent DNA, divergent species with identical DNA, livingcreatures with no DNA...good luck with those.

Again, the extinction of species is an interesting conundrum. But the coelocanth has not evolved, and some sharks have and some haven't. Genomes are cool. Do they have free will? Are they self-aware? Or is their state-space randomly-determined? Or all of the above?

Nope, they ain't brainz. And the determination is performed by a nonrandomly selecting environmet.

Not to be overly confrontational, but I find we all have a particular belief system around which are prepared to utterly suspend our usual healthy skepticism. For many people that is AGW. I find "evolution" no more convincing, and the beliefs of the "scientific community" are compromised by its willingness to toss skepticism overboard on the AGW issue I'm afraid.

Evolutionary theory is as empirically solid as is gravitation or heliocentrism. You don't have to believe what you can know by looking at the evidence. And AGW and evolution scientists aren't the same people (different fields).

If the only defence for evolution is "it's an established fact, so there" we are in a great deal of trouble. It is not demonstrable on the macro scale.

There's artifactual retroviral DNA, which shows common ancestry, which means macroevolution. Unless you're the kinda guy who woulda let OJ go free because you don't trust DNA evidence.

Again, I don't say it didn't happen, only that those who claim it did in the way they say it did, have not adequately made their case to me. I eagerly await more compelling evidence than the shells and husks of long-dead creatures. Heck, if someone can convert a dog into a fish in a lab, that'd pretty much do it for me...

So first you discard millions of meticulously organized fossils, then you demand to see a magic trick that only a deity could perform. You're a real doofus.

624 Salamantis  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 4:34:11am

re: #622 cracker-crusader

Mr Secul

"many of the (shark) families have been with us for 150 million years"... errr.. sorry dude, kinda made my point there for me.

Of course the glaring error my argument makes (did you guys catch it?) is how I accept that info, but not other info that'd undermine my position.

That's because you work backwards; first you select the conclusion you prefer, and then you select only evidence that supports it.

I can only assume that we both accept the fossil record as is, age and all. That doesn't account for the fact some families of shark have remained unchanged through 4 ice ages, plus a period where parts of the planet suffered +30 deg C temeratures day and night, year-round.

I don't know, that seems to me to be pretty catastrophic external stimulus for adaptation, no? And let's not forget the mass extinction of about 165 000 000 years ago (and what about the Pre-Cambrian explosion of species?)

I dunno, the case for me is still weak

Umm, I think those were primarily above-ground extinctions once the sharks appeared. And if it gets too warm or too cold in the ocean, migrate.

625 Mr Secul  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 5:35:27am

re: #622 cracker-crusader

Mr Secul

"many of the (shark) families have been with us for 150 million years"... errr.. sorry dude, kinda made my point there for me.

If your point is only that some species are long lived then we are in agreement.

If your point is that this disproves the fact of evolution or the theory of evolution then you are wrong on both counts.

I will address the fact of evolution first.

It is a fact that species become extinct. It is a fact that new species appear in the fossil record. It is a fact that at different times in earth's history there have been different assemblages of species.

There is so much evidence for this that it is taken to be a fact. In other words established to the point were withholding provisional agreement is just plain silly.

As for the theory of evolution; it does not require change. Therefore apparent stasis in some species does not disprove evolution. If an organism is well suited to its environment then it may continue unchanged.

There may have been many changes in shark biochemistry and in their soft parts, there may have been many synonymous changes in their genome. None of these things would be detectable in the fossil record.

plus a period where parts of the planet suffered +30 deg C temeratures day and night, year-round.

I don't know, that seems to me to be pretty catastrophic external stimulus for adaptation, no?

Not for a marine organism. Do you have a link for this +30 deg C temperature stuff. How long did it last, when did it happen?

And let's not forget the mass extinction of about 165 000 000 years ago

Let's not. But what is the significance for sharks?

(and what about the Pre-Cambrian explosion of species?)

What about it?

626 cracker-crusader  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 6:53:21am

Mr Secul

Your argument is circular.

Absent - a viable, convincing MECHANISM (geez, I'm getting sick of arguing with religious nutjobs of all persuasions!).

You exhibit the coming and going of species (duh) and a common thread of DNA. This is no more convincing than claiming that because heavy elements are here, and their spectral signatures absent in the quasar field, that these evolved out of stellar explosions. A nice hypothesis, and elegant. But hardly "established fact".

And then along comes the Lymen Alpha forest belt - exhibiting heavier elements. Oh darn...

+30 deg C was the temperature required to sustain the mega-snake BTW...

So my coelocanth is the lymen-alpha forest belt. Uncomfortable. Deal with it please...

627 cracker-crusader  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 7:01:32am

Also there is the following established fact (and i can establish it right here for you if you wish): the square root of 2 is irrational.

The remainder of the sciences require a healthy skepticism. I am not convinced that ANY scientist in recent times has set out to honestly counter the evolution hypothesis. And you still fail to answer my challenge. You claim evolution hasn't been disproved, yet you fail to furnish me with what constitutes disproof of evolution. So how exactly can you then go on to claim it hasn't been disproven? Simply operating under the constant assumption that the hypothesis is true does not a convincing skeptic make.

By the way it is extremely disingenuous to claim that ID has no place in science. Tell that to Einstein...

There are plenty of people in the hard sciences who have no problem with the idea of creation.

And as I've said before - I do not consistently claim it didn't happen, only that the emperor currently has no clothes on!

628 cracker-crusader  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 7:04:06am

And what drives me batty about Charles' approach is that he'd like to see laws passed that pretty much guarantee this discussion will never take place in the classrooms of the US.

Sorry Charles.

629 cracker-crusader  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 7:15:32am

So apparently coelocanths were quite happy to remain coelocanths, but somehow an incredibly successful ape just HAD to evolve at breakneck speed in as little as the last 1 500 000 years) into one of the least biologically (but ultimately incredibly, REDUNDANTLY intelligent) effective creatures on earth. I don't get it...

630 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 10:28:28am

re: #629 cracker-crusader

So apparently coelocanths were quite happy to remain coelocanths, but somehow an incredibly successful ape just HAD to evolve at breakneck speed in as little as the last 1 500 000 years) into one of the least biologically (but ultimately incredibly, REDUNDANTLY intelligent) effective creatures on earth. I don't get it...

Yes! You've seen behind the curtain and exposed the evil atheistic scientists as the scheming liars they are. It's all so simple. They're trying to trick us with this "science" stuff.

If we didn't have creationists and their quote mines and endlessly repeated talking points, there's no telling how much horrible damage they might be able to wreak.

631 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 10:32:43am

re: #627 cracker-crusader

You claim evolution hasn't been disproved, yet you fail to furnish me with what constitutes disproof of evolution. So how exactly can you then go on to claim it hasn't been disproven?

Simple. Find the remains of a modern animal in the same substrate as a dinosaur fossil. That's just one way to falsify evolution, off the top of my head. There are many others, but you don't want to see them so you won't.

Instead of being disproven, all the evidence for more than 100 years has only made the theory stronger. All of it. You can keep making ridiculous unsupported statements all you like, but you're simply whistling into the wind.

632 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 10:34:54am

re: #628 cracker-crusader

And what drives me batty about Charles' approach is that he'd like to see laws passed that pretty much guarantee this discussion will never take place in the classrooms of the US.

Sorry Charles.

That's right. I want science teachers to teach science, not religious pseudo-science. You want to force your religious views on other people's children. Simple as that.

633 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 10:44:04am

re: #626 cracker-crusader

And then along comes the Lymen Alpha forest belt - exhibiting heavier elements. Oh darn...

+30 deg C was the temperature required to sustain the mega-snake BTW...

So my coelocanth is the lymen-alpha forest belt. Uncomfortable. Deal with it please...

You're parroting creationist talking points straight from Creation Ministries International:

[Link: creationontheweb.com...]

634 Mr Secul  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 2:02:38pm

re: #626 cracker-crusader

Mr Secul

Your argument is circular.

Nonsense. I said that it is a fact that species have become extinct, that new species have arisen and that there are different assemblages of species at different times in the fossil record. There is nothing circular about that.

You exhibit the coming and going of species (duh)

Its not just that species come and go, there are obvious progressions.

and a common thread of DNA.

Which shows nested sets that match the sets constructed using phenotypical data. And there is the erv data. This is all strong evidence of common descent.

This is no more convincing than claiming that because heavy elements are here, and their spectral signatures absent in the quasar field, that these evolved out of stellar explosions. A nice hypothesis, and elegant. But hardly "established fact".

The established fact is that the assemblages of species have not remained static over the millions of years and not all species have been in existence at any one time. This is the fact of evolution.

The theory of evolution is an attempt to explain the fact of evolution.

Do you believe that there are still dinosaurs alive today? Do you believe that humans and dinosaurs coexisted?

+30 deg C was the temperature required to sustain the mega-snake BTW...

This snake lived everywhere on earth including the sea?!?

I don't see how that snake has any bearing on shark evolution.

635 cracker-crusader  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 2:40:16pm

"Simple. Find the remains of a modern animal in the same substrate as a dinosaur fossil. That's just one way to falsify evolution..."

OK, the coelocanth? Just saying... Of course is it too recent?

Bugger off Charles, I was standing in our astronomy lab surfing the Celestron when the news of the Lymen Alpha forest broke. You really are losing your friggin' mind... And for one you don't know my religious beliefs, and I have no interest in foisting them on anyone. As far as I'm concerned I don't care much what you believe. You can rot in hell, or simply expire quietly at the end of your days with a soft splutter, for all I care. You simply wish to crush the debate altogether, which is why my children will be home-schooled in the end, so as to avoid the charming delights of "government education" at the hands of the high priests of scientism.

OK Mr Secul, explain in great detail why the coelocanth (including fossils in South Africa) has not evolved, and that doesn't disprove the hypothesis?

You people bore me to tears...

636 cracker-crusader  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 2:43:17pm

Charles, you're in over your head. Secul is a worthy opponent. You on the other hand appear to have no clue what a scientific debate looks like, and you run shrieking like a Dervish from the very idea that your sacred cows might be challenged...

You're far more like a mullah than you realise.

637 cracker-crusader  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 2:50:38pm

Secul

Dinosaurs alive today. (1) Define a dinosaur (and NOT in a circular way using a timeline!)

(2) in that case I submit the coelocanth perhaps? Possibly families of shark (from your own link)

(3) +30 deg temps daily causes pretty darned warm oceans, buddy. And the Great White appears to have kept similar form for millions of years through ice-ages and hot-boxes alike.

We on the other hand evolved into one of the weakest (physically) and most redundantly intelligent species on the planet in a matter of just over 1 million years. What gives?

The fact of evolution you describe seems to be this: "species came and went" Period. If that is evolution, OK whatever, dumbass.

The Mechanism is what I'm after, and you can't provide that (yet) on a macro scale. Just admit you are constantly pointing the evidence toward the conclusion. An honest scientist simply says "this is what we've found" and that's it. Some evidence supports the hypothesis, some (like coelocanth) does not, and be done with it.

But that is why I believe evolutionism is the new religion.

638 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 2:51:02pm

And with that, I bid you adieu.

639 Mr Secul  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 3:00:10pm

re: #635 cracker-crusader

"Simple. Find the remains of a modern animal in the same substrate as a dinosaur fossil. That's just one way to falsify evolution..."

OK, the coelocanth? Just saying... Of course is it too recent?

Its a Sarcopterygian and therefore belongs to a group that predates the dinosaurs, as do the sponges, and the insects, and mosses, and ferns.

What Charles meant by a modern animal is something that is believed to have evolved after the dinosaurs, a rabbit would do, or a human.

OK Mr Secul, explain in great detail why the coelacanth (including fossils in South Africa) has not evolved, and that doesn't disprove the hypothesis?

I mentioned several posts back that Darwin's theory doesn't require that all species change. Therefore the apparent lack of change in the coelacanth does not disprove the theory of evolution.

And it certainly does not disprove the fact of evolution.

Were there coelacanths in the pre-cambrian? Where are all the trilobytes these days? The graptolites? The amonites? The goniatites? The belemnites? The pterasaurs? The therapods? Did Noah build his ark using diplodocus cranes? Did he have australopithecus cabin boys?

You people bore me to tears...

Why talk to us if we bore you? Find more interesting people.

640 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 3:01:13pm

re: #639 Mr Secul

Why talk to us if we bore you? Find more interesting people.

Well, he's going to have to now.

641 Mr Secul  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 3:22:58pm

re: #637 cracker-crusader

The fact of evolution you describe seems to be this: "species came and went" Period. If that is evolution, OK whatever, dumbass.

It really is that simple, its not rocket science.

But there are creationists that deny even this simple observation.

You are unhappy with current theories of evolution. That's OK, either do the work and come up with a new theory that is better or wait until someone else does it for you.

I think that current theory is essentially correct. Its on the right track. Do we know everything? No we don't. But I don't see anything fundamentally wrong with current theories.

Though I do agree that it would be nice if we could give a better explanation for the fact that some species are extremely long lived. Evo-devo always seems to promise to shed light on these issues. Maybe one day it will. :-)

I suspect that if something comes along to supersede the current theories then it will add to the current set and not replace them entirely.

I could be wrong. Time will tell.

642 Mr Secul  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 4:11:10pm

re: #637 cracker-crusader

Secul

Dinosaurs alive today. (1) Define a dinosaur (and NOT in a circular way using a timeline!)

I'll use named examples to clarify what I mean: T-Rex, Stegosaurus, Triceratops. That was easy and not at all circular.

(2) in that case I submit the coelocanth perhaps? Possibly families of shark (from your own link)

I don't understand what point you were trying to make there.

(3) +30 deg temps daily causes pretty darned warm oceans, buddy. And the Great White appears to have kept similar form for millions of years through ice-ages and hot-boxes alike.

Maybe that means that sharks don't have to change their overall shape to adapt to temperature changes. They could have made biochemical and physiological changes that can't be seen in the fossil record.

We on the other hand evolved into one of the weakest (physically) and most redundantly intelligent species on the planet in a matter of just over 1 million years. What gives?

I don't know. Most species seem to evolve faster than sharks and coelacanths. We fall into that category.

The Mechanism is what I'm after, and you can't provide that (yet) on a macro scale.

I can't explain why some species appear to stay the same over long periods of time but that does not mean that no species change or that species do not give rise to new species.

As for mechanisms for speciation: all it needs is some barrier to interbreeding and time for genetic drift to make the process irreversible.

This could be behavioral for example birds use song to identify mates. Birds have regional accents. Drifting accents could lead to speciation.

A change in flower color could lead to a change in pollinator that could lead to speciation. And it could be a one gene change.

Geographical isolation could lead to speciation.

Wheat was created by hybridization and polyploidy.

In humans some people can't successfully breed with each other because of incompatible blood types. Imagine what would happen if a small population of humans was isolated from the rest and started with a high incidence of a rare blood type. Imagine that there were further mutations that made them incompatible with the rest of the species.

But anyway...

There are mechanisms that can lead to speciation. If you genuinely want to know more about them then look them up. Study.

If you just want to deny the possibility of speciation then suit yourself.

Just admit you are constantly pointing the evidence toward the conclusion. An honest scientist simply says "this is what we've found" and that's it. Some evidence supports the hypothesis, some (like coelocanth) does not, and be done with it.

Which hypothesis? Too late to ask now so I'll leave it.

But that is why I believe evolutionism is the new religion.

Oh good grief. What, like this?

643 Salamantis  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 4:21:06pm

re: #627 cracker-crusader

Also there is the following established fact (and i can establish it right here for you if you wish): the square root of 2 is irrational.

The remainder of the sciences require a healthy skepticism. I am not convinced that ANY scientist in recent times has set out to honestly counter the evolution hypothesis. And you still fail to answer my challenge. You claim evolution hasn't been disproved, yet you fail to furnish me with what constitutes disproof of evolution. So how exactly can you then go on to claim it hasn't been disproven? Simply operating under the constant assumption that the hypothesis is true does not a convincing skeptic make.

By the way it is extremely disingenuous to claim that ID has no place in science. Tell that to Einstein...

There are plenty of people in the hard sciences who have no problem with the idea of creation.

And as I've said before - I do not consistently claim it didn't happen, only that the emperor currently has no clothes on!

"It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it." From a letter Einstein wrote in English, dated 24 March 1954. It is included in Albert Einstein: The Human Side, edited by Helen Dukas and Banesh Hoffman, published by Princeton University Press. Albert Einstein, Out of My Later Years (New York: Philosophical Library, 1950), p. 27.

644 Jimmah  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 6:58:09pm

Another ignoranus bites the dust.


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 Frank says:

When we talk about artistic freedom in this country We sometime lose sight of the fact that freedom is often dependent on adequate financing.