Human Rights Groups: We Ignore Hamas War Crimes Because They’re So Obvious

Middle East • Views: 5,150

Human rights groups including Amnesty International have come up with an innovative excuse for ignoring Hamas war crimes: They’re Too Blatant And Savage.

Yes, really.

Human rights groups argued Wednesday that a detailed probe into Hamas’s firing of Kassam rockets at Israeli communities is not necessary, because it constitutes such a “blatant” war crime. By contrast, Israel’s actions are more complex, and therefore do require such investigation, they said… said Sarit Micha’eli of B’tselem… “It is quite clear that [Hamas is] attacking and targeting civilians… With Israel things are more complicated because Israel states it does not deliberately target civilians and that it safeguards them. With Israel, you have to investigate each specific incident because even if a civilian is killed in an attack…” “The Israeli authorities deny everything, so one has to prove what happened in a way that you don’t need to do with the Palestinian rockets,” said Donatella Rovera of Amnesty International.

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192 comments
1 Kragar  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:09:02am

Summary: "Yeah yeah, Hamas is bad, lets get back to hammering Israel."

2 pegcity  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:09:12am

And they aren't jews

3 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:09:45am

Tell me again why we need "human rights" groups?

4 jcm  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:10:02am

It's so obvious we won't mention it.
But Israel firing in self defense and killing involuntary human shields?

The Juice must be held to account!

PAH!

5 SurferDoc  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:10:08am

Yeah, right.

6 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:10:09am

What. The. Fuck?

7 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:10:12am
It is quite clear that [Hamas is] attacking and targeting civilians... With Israel things are more complicated because Israel states it does not deliberately target civilians and that it safeguards them. With Israel, you have to investigate each specific incident because even if a civilian is killed in an attack...”


Ha!

8 Dianna  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:10:12am

While I agree that Hamas' war crimes are blatant (including using civilians as human shields), I dislike the way these "activists" attempt to make Israel sound like villains.

9 Lee Coller  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:10:22am

I think its more like,

Yeah, Hamas is bad, we need to prove that Israel is just as bad.

10 Kragar  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:10:22am
"With Israel, you have to investigate each specific incident because even if a civilian is killed in an attack...” “The Israeli authorities deny everything, so one has to prove what happened in a way that you don’t need to do with the Palestinian rockets,” said Donatella Rovera of Amnesty International"

Because you know how those Jews lie.

////

11 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:10:33am

Stop the world, I want to get off.

12 VegasRick  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:10:46am

Fucking amazing. Those folks are.

13 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:10:47am
14 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:10:47am

So why isn't Jewish self defense "obvious"?

15 Shug  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:10:53am

They can't see the forrest for the trees

16 Golem Akbar  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:11:14am

Oh, that's so much clearer.

17 Kragar  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:11:19am

re: #3 eschew_obfuscation

Tell me again why we need "human rights" groups?

To soak up government grant money and fill valuable time on college campuses that would otherwise be wasted on academics.

18 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:11:24am

re: #9 Lee Coller

I think its more like,

Yeah, Hamas is bad, we need to prove that Israel is just as bad.

Problem is, Israel is pretty good, and Hamas is just damn evil. These "human rights" groups are little but leftist/islamist shills.

19 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:11:36am

re: #13 buzzsawmonkey

To remind us that "human rights" advocacy is antithetical to liberty under the rule of law.

Thanks! I almost forgot....

20 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:11:43am
21 albusteve  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:11:59am

disbelief....how can anybody take these seriously...where does AI gets it's money?

22 yma o hyd  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:12:09am

re: #14 eschew_obfuscation

So why isn't Jewish self defense "obvious"?

Because its Jewish ... they're not allowed to!

23 A Man for all Seasons  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:12:17am

Just to get human rights groups to admit Hamas engages in war crimes
is rather startling..Maybe it was so obvious that to deny them would look foolish to the world...I read this yesterday and went Huh?

24 jorline  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:12:17am

No wonder the world is so screwed up.

What's right is wrong and what's wrong is obvious...therefore it's OK.

25 Honorary Yooper  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:12:24am

re: #13 buzzsawmonkey

To remind us that "human rights" advocacy is antithetical to liberty under the rule of law.

I, for one, would not miss them if they ceased to exist.

26 nikis-knight  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:12:24am

I agree, in as much as there is no need to "investigate" Hamas' actions.
Vocal condemnation is what is needed, constant and emphatic enough to disrupt any sympathy or aid to those responsible. This is how amnesty international fails--they make noise about the relatively insignificant, and give cover by silence to the egregious.

27 thefallingman  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:12:43am

Ahhhhhhhh! My brain has been twisted into a pretzel!

28 phoenixgirl  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:12:52am

well that ends that then

29 Golem Akbar  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:13:17am

The Human Rights groups are really just creative fiction, invented in a wickedly funny Onion article. [I wish]

30 stevieray  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:13:21am

Oh please....

You ignore the war crimes of Hamas because they are the non-Western half of the war...

You ignore the war crimes of Hamas because you are Gramscian whores...

You ignore the war crimes of Hamas because you are antisemitic douchenozzles...

Pick one of those... maybe I'd believe you.

31 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:13:22am

This is pretzel time for the human rights groups.
A mobius strip invariably winds up with its head up its ass.

32 Shug  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:13:22am
Israel states it does not deliberately target civilians

Notice, they do not take it as fact that Israel doesn't deliberately target civilians.

Hey Dumbasses, if Israel did deliberately target civilians there wouldn't be any civilians left

33 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:13:29am
With Israel things are more complicated because Israel states it does not deliberately target civilians

So they're investigating whether the Israelis are hypocrites, you see, which is, of course, the worst crime in the history of the world to a liberal. (Unless they're doing it.)

34 phoenixgirl  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:13:43am

re: #11 MrSilverDragon

Stop the world, I want to get off.

and miss all the fun?

35 itellu3times  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:13:46am

We are very near the end of civilization.

In fact, I think I can see it in the rear view mirror.

These MORONS do not seem to realize that the very violations they are ignoring ARE THE CAUSE of the ones they are all atwitter about.

36 VegasRick  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:14:00am

And BO talks about more efficient appliances. Just great.

37 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:14:22am

re: #13 buzzsawmonkey

To remind us that "human rights" advocacy is antithetical to liberty under the rule of law.

We've discussed this before, but; I don't think it need be this way. Of course, generally it is.

38 fish  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:14:38am

re: #17 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

To soak up government grant money and fill valuable time on college campuses that would otherwise be wasted on academics.

Where do I go to become a "human Rights" group? Sounds like a good gig.

39 Lee Coller  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:14:39am

re: #18 Honorary Yooper

Problem is, Israel is pretty good, and Hamas is just damn evil. These "human rights" groups are little but leftist/islamist shills.

I agree with you, I'm just pointing out what the "Human Rights" groups are trying to do.

It's obvious Hamas is bad, now if we can just prove Israel is just as bad that will excuse what Hamas is doing. Loony Leftist Logic.

40 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:14:50am
41 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:14:51am

re: #27 thefallingman

Ahhhhhhhh! My brain has been twisted into a pretzel!

Dang! You beat me to the "pretzel" metaphor!
(-:

42 saylorfam  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:15:18am

I find this amazing. They refer to the events in Gaza as if they were watching a tennis match. Have they forgotten it is a war of survival and that Israel was attacked many, many times over the past year without retaliating at all? Sure, go ahead, shoot rockest at me and my children and then whine like bitches when they finally hit back.

43 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:15:25am

Most of the press releases from these organizations don't call for investigations, they condemn Israel defending itself.
So why don't they condemn Hamas every time they launch a rocket? Or when they smuggle weapons, making it harder to get food to Gaza? Or, you get the idea.
No, they ignore those.
These "Human Rights Organizations" need to be investigated, because their bias is so obvious one wonders where it comes from.

44 Creeping Eruption  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:16:07am

re: #9 Lee Coller

I think its more like,

Yeah, Hamas is bad, we need to prove that Israel is just as bad Worse.

45 yma o hyd  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:16:19am

re: #35 itellu3times

We are very near the end of civilization.

In fact, I think I can see it in the rear view mirror.

These MORONS do not seem to realize that the very violations they are ignoring ARE THE CAUSE of the ones they are all atwitter about.

Of course they don't realise that - causes are too complicated, its the single act, out of context, that matters to them.
Especially if its made up of lies, told by UN officials.
Never mind that its shown to be lie, later, somewhere on page 24 ...

46 jcm  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:16:29am

re: #31 pre-Boomer Marine brat

This is pretzel time for the human rights groups.
A mobius strip invariably winds up with its head up its ass.

Press release photo of spokesman giving the statement.

47 thefallingman  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:16:32am

re: #41 pre-Boomer Marine brat
No, seriously: my brain started to hurt as I read that.

48 eschew_obfuscation  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:16:33am

re: #38 fish

Where do I go to become a "human Rights" group? Sounds like a good gig.

I think it's time for a "capitalist rights" group.

But taking government grants would be antithetical to our mission, so I guess we'll have to find another way to make money.

49 Golem Akbar  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:16:39am

Neighborhood Bully (by Bob Dylan)
Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man,
His enemies say he's on their land.
They got him outnumbered about a million to one,
He got no place to escape to, no place to run.
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully just lives to survive,
He's criticized and condemned for being alive.
He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin,
He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in.
He's the neighborhood bully.

The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land,
He's wandered the earth an exiled man.
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn,
He's always on trial for just being born.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized,
Old women condemned him, said he should apologize.
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad.
The bombs were meant for him.
He was supposed to feel bad.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, the chances are against it and the odds are slim
That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him,
'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a license to kill him is given out to every maniac.
He's the neighborhood bully.

He got no allies to really speak of.
What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love.
He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace,
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease.
Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly.
To hurt one they would weep.
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Every empire that's enslaved him is gone,
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon.
He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand,
In bed with nobody, under no one's command.
He's the neighborhood bully.

Now his holiest books have been trampled upon,
No contract he signed was worth what it was written on.
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth,
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health.
He's the neighborhood bully.

What's anybody indebted to him for?
Nothin', they say.
He just likes to cause war.
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed,
They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed.
He's the neighborhood bully.

What has he done to wear so many scars?
Does he change the course of rivers?
Does he pollute the moon and stars?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill,
Running out the clock, time standing still,
Neighborhood bully.

50 albusteve  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:16:56am

re: #43 Kosh's Shadow

Most of the press releases from these organizations don't call for investigations, they condemn Israel defending itself.
So why don't they condemn Hamas every time they launch a rocket? Or when they smuggle weapons, making it harder to get food to Gaza? Or, you get the idea.
No, they ignore those.
These "Human Rights Organizations" need to be investigated, because their bias is so obvious one wonders where it comes from.

AI is publically funded...it has no more cred than Little League Inc...there is really no reason to pay attention to them

51 2by2  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:17:04am

Does that mean that Amnesty International is now condemning HAMAS for human rights violations and war crimes?
Or does it just mean what I kind of know it means?:
Let's blame the Jooos.

52 DisturbedEma  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:17:12am

re: #43 Kosh's Shadow

Most of the press releases from these organizations don't call for investigations, they condemn Israel defending itself.
So why don't they condemn Hamas every time they launch a rocket? Or when they smuggle weapons, making it harder to get food to Gaza? Or, you get the idea.
No, they ignore those.
These "Human Rights Organizations" need to be investigated, because their bias is so obvious one wonders where it comes from.


And where are the placards and slogans about those crimes? When will there be a publicity campagin to bring this to light and place it in cotext of Israeli actions?

**crickets**

53 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:17:15am
“It is quite clear that [Hamas is] attacking and targeting civilians.

Unless I'm mistaken, doesn't the Hamas PR shop waffle on that vis a vis the outside world? I mean, they're in full-throated "kill the Jews" mode when speaking to their own people, but I seem to recall they at least attempt a certain amount of taqqiya toward us infidels. So even AI's putative excuse here doesn't hold water.

54 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:17:28am
55 LGoPs  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:17:39am

This is a clear example of why I detest liberals so much. They disregard simple common sense facts thru a compulsive drive to discover 'hidden' complexity in everything. The only complexity is the twisted neural pathways in their brains that compel them to disregard the obvious and invent their own reality.
They really are guilty of inflicting mental cruelty on the rest of us......

56 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:17:46am

“The Costa Nostra denies everything, so one has to prove what happened in a way that you don’t need to do with the Mafia killings,” said Donatella Rovera of Amnesty International.

57 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:17:51am

re: #46 jcm

Press release photo of spokesman giving the statement.

:D ... why did I just KNOW that was coming up at that link!

58 Shug  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:17:51am

I wonder if Amnesty international would have Ignored the Nazis and investigated the Polish underground?

59 dhg4  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:17:53am

Put in other words: We hold Israel to a higher standard.

What it really means: We hold Israel to a standard; we hold its enemies to none.

60 Macker  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:18:15am

re: #2 pegcity

And they aren't jews

But wait! Muslims are the new Jews...

61 songbird  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:18:16am

[deleted]

62 NoWhereAlaska  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:18:17am

Come on its a "Human" Rights organization. Everyone knows that Isrealis aren't human. They are, you know, Jews.
/
What a pathetic organization.

63 WriterMom  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:18:21am

Translation: anything Jews do in self-defence is condemnable, and anything done to Jews, no matter how barbaric, is understandable, acceptable and good for the world.

64 DisturbedEma  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:18:40am

re: #50 albusteve

AI is publically funded...it has no more cred than Little League Inc...there is really no reason to pay attention to them

Even if everybody does. . .

65 UndeadLenin  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:18:46am

Did they say that they have to prove Israel killed a civilian? Since we all know they the Hamas rockets killed Israelis. However, that's ok since its blatant that Israelis were killed.

66 amateurpundit  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:18:48am

I am flabbergasted that these left-wing, anti-liberal, anti-democratic, anti-semitic, anti-western-civilization groups came out with this position.

Rule Number 1: If there is a 900-lb gorilla sitting in a corner of the room, NEVER ADMIT IT'S THERE!

As Tony Bennett says in "Love American Style", "Deny deny deny". And the most effective form of denial is silence. You soooo don't want to be dragged into discussing facts.

67 bulwrk  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:18:51am

Yes officer it is so obvious that I was doing 90 in a 35mph zone that it is really quite pointless that you pulled me over and are now writing me a ticket.

68 mjwsatx  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:18:54am

Oh, we know that Hitler is bad. We don't even have to talk about that. But what about those guys in the Warsaw Ghetto who were shooting and throwing molitiv cocktails. They might have killed an innocent German civilian. We need to look at their actions more critically.

What a load of charah. The morons at Betsalem should be ashamed of themselves.

69 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:18:56am
70 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:19:15am

re: #58 Shug

I wonder if Amnesty international would have Ignored the Nazis and investigated the Polish underground?

“The Polish underground denies everything, so one has to prove what happened in a way that you don’t need to do with the Nazi's,” said Donatella Rovera of Amnesty International.

71 nikis-knight  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:19:51am

re: #55 LGoPs

This is a clear example of why I detest liberals so much. They disregard simple common sense facts thru a compulsive drive to discover 'hidden' complexity in everything. The only complexity is the twisted neural pathways in their brains that compel them to disregard the obvious and invent their own reality.
They really are guilty of inflicting mental cruelty on the rest of us......


But the complexity is a facade to cover their real actions, which have a very simple pattern--Israel bad. America bad.

72 DisturbedEma  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:19:58am

re: #63 WriterMom

Translation: anything Jews do in self-defence is condemnable, and anything done to Jews, no matter how barbaric, is understandable, acceptable and good for the world.

Yup- the world according to the tolerent. . .

73 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:20:00am

Actually, the real reason they don't focus on Hamas is because they know that Hamas will never ever listen to them and would just as soon as murder those human rights folks who enter Gaza as they would anyone else. The only ones who have any chance of imposing justice on Hamas are the Israelis, and they do a fairly decent job of it when the politicians get out of the way and let the IDF mete out the justice that Hamas so dearly craves.

With Israel, US and other nations, AI and the other human rights groups are able to cajole and pressure those governments into taking actions that appear to protect human rights - but even there, those groups actually undermine human rights by equating terrorist actions with that of legitimate national security and responsibility of sovereign nations to protect their citizens from terrorist attacks from groups that hide behind women and children.

They are reprehensible in their focus and by ignoring the Hamas war crimes, crimes against humanity, and repeated calls to genocide, misogyny, etc. are actually enabling Hamas to propagandize openly and obviously without any criticism from the very groups that should be at the forefront.

74 stevieray  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:20:11am

re: #9 Lee Coller

I think its more like,

Yeah, Hamas is bad, we need to prove that Israel is just as bad.

Bingo!

75 justiceforall  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:20:31am

AI says that Hamas's attacks on civilians are clearly human rights violations and that Israel's military reaction in which Palestinian civilians were killed was more complicated. And for some LGF readers, that's a bad thing? Please explain.

76 MrSilverDragon  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:20:32am

Congitive Dissonance should not be a way of life. Unfortunately, there's too many on the planet that do live this way.

When the heroes are villains, and the villains are heroes, it's time to stop and start over.

77 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:20:37am
“It is quite clear that [Hamas is] attacking and targeting civilians... With Israel things are more complicated because Israel states it does not deliberately target civilians and that it safeguards them. With Israel, you have to investigate each specific incident because even if a civilian is killed in an attack...” “The Israeli authorities deny everything. . .

My head is spinning.
That is unbelievable.

78 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:20:43am
79 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:20:56am

re: #69 buzzsawmonkey

If a society has a commitment to equal justice under law, it has liberty, and doesn't need "human rights."

A society could in theory a) be committed to equal justice under law, b) which system of justice includes torture or mutiliation for various crimes (but applied equally). That's where the concept of "human rights" comes in.

80 WriterMom  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:20:58am
81 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:21:12am

re: #68 mjwsatx

Oh, we know that Hitler is bad. We don't even have to talk about that. But what about those guys in the Warsaw Ghetto who were shooting and throwing molitiv cocktails. They might have killed an innocent German civilian. We need to look at their actions more critically.

What a load of charah. The morons at Betsalem should be ashamed of themselves.

Er, there weren't any German civilians in the Warsaw ghetto. soldiers, yes, civilians, not really.

82 Haole  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:21:17am

I'd love to buy a small island and move all these human right groups there.

Then I'd name it "Ignore"

"the juice are targeting civilians in Gaza "says Twinkie moonbat, Ignore

83 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:21:29am

re: #47 thefallingman

No, seriously: my brain started to hurt as I read that.

I know. I saw what they were doing and stopped halfway through.

It's like the 3-year-old (with cookie crumbs on the face) who's now graduated from college but hasn't grown up emotionally. Excuse-making reaching a higher plateau.

84 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:21:40am
85 albusteve  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:21:53am

re: #64 DisturbedEma

Even if everybody does. . .

who?...is there an empirical way to measure their success?...what exactly do the accomplish besides press releases from investigations?....I dunno

86 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:22:04am

The Discovery Institute's David Klinghoffer is attacking me today -- the link is in our referrers if you want to see it. (There's very little traffic coming from it.) I may respond later today; it's the usual misdirection and dishonesty.

87 Kenneth  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:22:44am

Maybe the UN could do an investigation to discover what if anything Hamas does that is not a war crime? That would be a lot less trouble.

88 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:22:47am

re: #72 DisturbedEma

Yup- the world according to the tolerent. . .

Those who are kind to the cruel will eventually be cruel to the kind. That's from the Talmud. Or maybe "Fiddler on the Roof". One of those.

89 WriterMom  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:23:11am

re: #74 stevieray

No, I think it's more like "we know we are supposed to think Hamas is bad, but really-we're OK with it, so we just have to figure out a way to say that for public consumption".

90 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:23:14am
91 DisturbedEma  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:23:29am

re: #75 justiceforall

AI says that Hamas's attacks on civilians are clearly human rights violations and that Israel's military reaction in which Palestinian civilians were killed was more complicated. And for some LGF readers, that's a bad thing? Please explain.

Because the 'complicated' part of Israeli actions is trying and succeding in making self defense look like attack. . .

By not acknowledging the provocation and complete disregard for Israeli civilians on the part of Hamas- Israel can be framed as the "aggressor" and demonized. . .while those that fire rickets from schools and other civilian centers can and do remain victims. . .when they are infact victimizing Jews in Israel. . .

92 wiffersnapper  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:23:35am

UHDUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH

93 WriterMom  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:23:50am

re: #88 Occasional Reader

ROFL. No, I think it was from your Bar Mitzvah speech.

94 VegasRick  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:23:51am

Is JFA on GAZE mode?

95 WriterMom  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:24:10am

re: #90 buzzsawmonkey

LAWYERS! GAAAA!

96 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:24:25am

re: #54 ploome hineni

you can always cracker

:D

/you would be a smart cookie

(mindful of the rules, pBMb waits 'til after the thread passes 100 to chip in)

/oh sure

97 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:24:58am

re: #75 justiceforall

AI says that Hamas's attacks on civilians are clearly human rights violations and that Israel's military reaction in which Palestinian civilians were killed was more complicated. And for some LGF readers, that's a bad thing? Please explain.

Do you honestly not understand that it is the ridiculous reasoning process that's a "bad thing" here?

They say they pay attention to Israel to investigate what's going on because Israel attempts and succeeds at inflicting less damage on civilians.

They are saying they have a deliberate policy of trying to find infractions they can "count" against Israel, while essentially allowing a free pass for Hamas' infractions.

Do you thing those are good things?

98 DisturbedEma  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:24:59am

re: #85 albusteve

who?...is there an empirical way to measure their success?...what exactly do the accomplish besides press releases from investigations?....I dunno

The fact that the placards waving at the demonstration mobs bear their name and quote their 'findings"

99 dhg4  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:25:03am

re: #68 mjwsatx

Oh, we know that Hitler is bad. We don't even have to talk about that. But what about those guys in the Warsaw Ghetto who were shooting and throwing molitiv cocktails. They might have killed an innocent German civilian. We need to look at their actions more critically.

What a load of charah. The morons at Betsalem should be ashamed of themselves.

Reminds me of this.

100 Kragar  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:25:05am

Here is the original article in full:

'No probe for blatant Hamas war crimes'

Hamas spokesman Fawzi Barhoum was quoted by AP Wednesday as saying Hamas attacks on southern Israel towns are "a means of self-defense."

"Those are not civilians. They are all soldiers," Barhoum said of the residents of southern Israel. "We are firing at places that bring us the F-16s, the warplanes and the tanks."

101 Sully33  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:25:14am

hanks for my daily dose of cognitive dissonance.

102 UndeadLenin  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:25:22am

I'm sure Amnesty International would have defended the south's action during the civil war as well.

103 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:25:38am

re: #90 buzzsawmonkey

No, it couldn't; because if it is committed to equal justice under law, it will have a mechanism for protecting its citizens from such abuses

That society could have broad societal agreement that such things are not "abuses", but rather perfectly appropriate punishments for those crimes. Again, in theory.

104 foxsecret  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:25:51am

Are these the same Human rights organizations that ignored Soviets Union's Cold War treatment of it's people and occupied countries?

105 SasquatchOnSteroids  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:26:01am

Gee, that sounds eerily close to a UN statement on the artist formerly known as the GWOT.
Maybe they have the same PR firm...

106 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:26:09am

re: #86 Charles

The Discovery Institute's David Klinghoffer is attacking me today -- the link is in our referrers if you want to see it. (There's very little traffic coming from it.) I may respond later today; it's the usual misdirection and dishonesty.

Why you?
I mean, there are just scads and scads of people claiming they are leaving and never coming back here . . . obviously you're no threat . . .
/

107 SurferDoc  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:26:21am

Loose translation: "We have to preserve our limited resources for important tasks like screwing Israel over."

108 Northpaw  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:26:23am

If the Hamas human rights violations are so blatat and obvious, why not blame Hamas for when civilians get hurt on either side? Yes, I know, rhetorical question.

109 Jack Reacher  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:26:29am
“The Israeli authorities deny everything..."


No, they actually just deny the blatant Hamas/Amnesty/Al-Reuters propaganda.

Kind of like saying "We accused her of being a witch, but she just denied it. So we had to burn her at the stake to get to the truth of the matter."

110 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:26:52am
111 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:27:15am

re: #93 WriterMom

ROFL. No, I think it was from your Bar Mitzvah speech.

You asked for it.

Okay, off to lunch.

112 reine.de.tout  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:27:23am

re: #54 ploome hineni

you can always cracker

:D

/you would be a smart cookie

"Cracker" and "cookie".
Hm.
Tryin' to start a war?

113 bj  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:27:55am

Why, after reading this article, do I feel like I just stuck my wet finger in a light socket?

114 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:28:03am

I believe it was buzzsaw who pointed out that these "human rights groups" are (paraphrasing) obsessed with legalities -- not with the higher principle of Justice.

115 IgofAntioch  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:28:10am

Amnesty International would have been silent on Nazis atrocities but would have been vocal about American troops liberating Europe because "the Nazis are so obvious but American Troops 'state' that they don't target civilians!" Does anyone take these morons serious in their assessment of human right violations?

116 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:28:18am

re: #94 VegasRick

Is JFA on GAZE mode?

Either that or I lose my mind.

117 VegasRick  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:28:41am

re: #100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Those are not civilians. They are all soldiers," Barhoum said of the residents of southern Israel. "We are firing at places that bring us the F-16s, the warplanes and the tanks."

Giant flying birds and metal skinned dinosaurs!

118 Dave the.....  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:29:05am
re: #68 mjwsatx

Oh, we know that Hitler is bad. We don't even have to talk about that. But what about those guys in the Warsaw Ghetto who were shooting and throwing molitiv cocktails. They might have killed an innocent German civilian. We need to look at their actions more critically.

What a load of charah. The morons at Betsalem should be ashamed of themselves.

There are also out there that would say, upon discovering the death camps in April of 1945; "We urge both sides, Germans and Jews, to stop genocidal extermination".

119 Opinionated  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:29:12am

This kind of logic and rationalization it what permeates the high salons and diplomatic corradors of the World.

The World has adopted the logic of the Arabs/Muslims and anti Semites.

As stated in the N Y Times yesterday:

"Palestinians almost never question the legitimacy of firing rockets at Israeli civilians as a form of resistance, and seemed shocked that Israel would go to war over it."

The Islamics are supposed to be savages. The Israelis/Jews are supposed to be cooperating victims.

When the template is shattered, when the victims decide no more, then an investigation must be commenced to find out why the victims are behaving this way and punish them if they don't return to their assigned role.

120 nyc redneck  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:29:26am

h.r. groups love murderers, jihadis, barbarians.
if they sided w/ israel, and exposed hamas, then the jihadis would be under real pressure to change.
and the h.r. jerks would lose their jobs as grievance mongers.
these are twisted manipulative people.
they don't want to solve anything.
just keep the wound open.

121 Dave the.....  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:29:30am

Well, the Nazi's were white, so they can be villians.

122 calvin coolidge  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:29:32am

This just in:
Amnesty International voted to be crazy after they voted against being crazy. -John Kerry

123 yma o hyd  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:29:53am

re: #110 buzzsawmonkey

Interesting that the "human rights" groups look only at "Israeli human rights violations against Arabs" and "Hamas' human rights violations against Israelis"--though, of course, they ignore the latter.

They are also ignoring Hamas' human rights violations against the people it rules; the use of women and children as human shields, the coercion of them into becoming suicide bombers, the murder of opposition Arabs, the propagandization and hate-instruction visited on the young, the theft of humanitarian supplies, etc., etc., etc.

Yep - and they are strangely silent about this.

I mean - a hospital bombared? Not prepared to talk about a cease fire?
Where's the outcry of the Worrrrld?
Where is the outcry of those organisations?

124 2by2  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:30:00am

re: #100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

"Those are not civilians. They are all soldiers," Barhoum said of the residents of southern Israel. "We are firing at places that bring us the F-16s, the warplanes and the tanks."

If so, you might want to stop firing rockets into these places; hence they'll bring the F-16s and the tanks, you morons!

125 jcm  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:30:03am

Is Hamas some terrorist organization, or not some......

126 VegasRick  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:30:06am

re: #122 calvin coolidge

This just in:
Amnesty International voted to be crazy after they voted against being crazy. -John Kerry

Was JK in Vietnam?

127 Wyatt Earp  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:30:14am

re: #122 calvin coolidge

This just in:
Amnesty International voted to be crazy after they voted against being crazy. -John Kerry

They celebrated by eating a cheesesteak with Swiss cheese!

128 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:30:19am
129 Macker  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:30:51am

re: #119 Opinionated

This kind of logic and rationalization it what permeates the high salons and diplomatic corradors of the World.

The World has adopted the logic of the Arabs/Muslims and anti Semites.

As stated in the N Y Times yesterday:

The Islamics are supposed to be savages. The Israelis/Jews are supposed to be cooperating victims.

When the template is shattered, when the victims decide no more, then an investigation must be commenced to find out why the victims are behaving this way and punish them if they don't return to their assigned role.

There, fixed that for ya!

130 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:31:20am

re: #102 UndeadLenin

I'm sure Amnesty International would have defended the south's action during the civil war as well.

Hmmm ... now THAT is a most interesting observation. I believe you're right.

131 dhg4  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:31:25am

re: #73 lawhawk

Actually, the real reason they don't focus on Hamas is because they know that Hamas will never ever listen to them and would just as soon as murder those human rights folks who enter Gaza as they would anyone else. The only ones who have any chance of imposing justice on Hamas are the Israelis, and they do a fairly decent job of it when the politicians get out of the way and let the IDF mete out the justice that Hamas so dearly craves.

That's right.

A Palestinian human rights activist and journalist who used to work for the Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem has been executed by Hamas on charges of "collaboration" with Israel, Palestinians in the Gaza Strip said over the weekend.

They identified the man as Haidar Ghanem, 46, of Rafah.

132 Kenneth  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:31:39am

Now we know why the UN Human Rights Council only ever condemns Israel!

It's must be because all the human rights abuses by all the Arab & African countries that control the UNHRC are sooooo obvious nobody ever need mention them. That must be it!

133 lawhawk  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:32:28am

re: #75 justiceforall

AI says that Hamas's attacks on civilians are clearly human rights violations and that Israel's military reaction in which Palestinian civilians were killed was more complicated. And for some LGF readers, that's a bad thing? Please explain.

If the Hamas rights are so clearly human rights violations, where are their calls to haul Hamas thugs before the ICC, the Hague, or any other court in the world to try them on war crimes charges? They don't, because their focus isn't on Hamas, but on Israel.

Israel's actions are indeed more complicated, because Israel adheres to the rules of war when Hamas purposefully doesn't.

Hamas engaged in literally thousands of war crimes - one for each of the rockets or mortars fired at Israeli communities; each with murderous intent to maim or kill civilians. Israel's actions that resulted in civilian casualties was due to Hamas purposefully hiding in and among civilians, a war crime on Hamas, but the NGOs instead focus on how Israel must limit its operations.

They will focus on Israel using white phosphorus, instead of the fact that Israel could have instead used high explosives to kill or flush terrorists out of their hiding locations; and that if Israel used high explosives, the death toll would have been much higher.

134 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:32:30am

re: #106 reine.de.tout

Why you?
I mean, there are just scads and scads of people claiming they are leaving and never coming back here . . . obviously you're no threat . . .
/

He's responding to this post:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

135 kynna  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:32:38am

So Israel needs to be blatantly brutal and criminally savage and the world will get off their backs?

Making your best efforts to spare the innocent is just cause for accusation and hysterical hatred to be returned to you?

Condemnation first, before any facts are known, is good policy for bringing about peace in the world?

I decided a long time ago that trying to reconcile the stated motivations of leftists with truth is a sure way to cause an aneurism.

136 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:32:42am

re: #112 reine.de.tout

"Cracker" and "cookie".
Hm.
Tryin' to start a war?

Perhaps pimping the Cookbook?
(-:

137 subsailor68  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:32:55am

OT, but very important:

The Unconstitutional Compromise

Latest George Will column. He covers the move by members in the House and Senate to "view" the District of Columbia as a "state", with full voting rights. This opens the door to adding two senators (from DC), and as DC votes overwhelmingly Democrat, the bottom line would be two additional Democrat(ic) senators.

He notes that this is part of a deal with Utah to give it a fourth House seat, which appears to be a "bribe" to the two Utah Republican senators.

It seems to me that, if what Mr. Will writes is a) accurate and b) comes to fruition, that conservatives, or Republicans, may have lost the Senate forever - or at least make it a Herculean task to take it back.

138 2by2  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:32:56am

re: #128 buzzsawmonkey

Time for the building of the Third Template.

Who'll bring us the third template?
Hope it's not Bill Gates.....

139 CommonCents  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:32:58am

This "obvious" rule, a.k.a. the "hypocrit" rule, a.k.a. "I speak without thinking" rule.

140 DisturbedEma  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:33:25am
141 mad mullah  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:33:54am

That woman, Donatella Rovera, is basically a professional propagandist and a redistributor of lies, as much of her work is simply based upon re-telling stories and fables that are fed to them by palestinians. What this women does and the work that the laughable Amnesty does can hardly be called research.

She has also made false claims in the past.

As detailed NGO Monitor (www.ngo-monitor.org) research has shown, the one-woman operation run by Ms. Rovera has produced numerous false claims, including in Amnesty's obsessive reporting on the 2006 Israel-Hezbollah conflict. Dr. Michael Ehrlich, the former head of Amnesty’s Israel branch (1998-9), exposed the façade of this “research” based on so-called eyewitness evidence, and this led him to resign in protest.

142 Edward Halper  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:34:06am

I really can't stand the patronizing attitude towards Arabs that's implicit in the report. We really can't expect anything better from them. Too bad, the Arabs don't realize that such human rights reports are really more humiliating for them than the actions of Israel that the Palestinians are complaining about.

143 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:35:04am

re: #75 justiceforall

AI says that Hamas's attacks on civilians are clearly human rights violations and that Israel's military reaction in which Palestinian civilians were killed was more complicated. And for some LGF readers, that's a bad thing? Please explain.

Apparently Hamas' human rights violations are so blatant that not only do they not need "investigating", they don't even warrant public condemnation until AI is forced to do so by public outcry. Meanwhile, accusations of Israeli "atrocities", no matter how bogus, MUST be investigated, keeping the accusation before the public for as long as possible.

That is what is at issue here, the so-called Human Rights Groups™ blatant double standard.

144 bj  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:35:06am

re: #138 2by2

Who'll bring us the third template?
Hope it's not Bill Gates.....

Jeez, you mean we been reading that wrong all these years? Feh!

145 DisturbedEma  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:35:06am

re: #142 Edward Halper

I really can't stand the patronizing attitude towards Arabs that's implicit in the report. We really can't expect anything better from them. Too bad, the Arabs don't realize that such human rights reports are really more humiliating for them than the actions of Israel that the Palestinians are complaining about.

I agree but whatever works to continue to hate is kept up. . .

146 horse  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:35:42am

A signature method used by evil people (or the pawns of evil people), criticize the victim of violence for defending themselves.

Same thing as blaming the woman who was raped for carrying a gun and shooting the next guy who attacks her. The guy's violent crime of attempted rape is obvious, her crime against society for shooting someone is more subtle. The method evil uses against individual liberty.

147 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:37:34am

re: #100 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Here is the original article in full:

'No probe for blatant Hamas war crimes'

"Those are not civilians. They are all soldiers," Barhoum said of the residents of southern Israel. "We are firing at places that bring us the F-16s, the warplanes and the tanks."


This is the typical projection that so many people make.
To Hamas, all their own people are nothing but soldiers, cannon fodder, or weapons, so, to them, all Israelis must be as well.
Of course, by Hamas' standards, Israel would be fully justified in killing everyone in Gaza. Not that I'm saying Israel should do that.

148 debutaunt  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:37:49am

re: #114 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I believe it was buzzsaw who pointed out that these "human rights groups" are (paraphrasing) obsessed with legalities -- not with the higher principle of Justice.

Don' need no stinkin' justice.

149 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:38:16am

re: #104 foxsecret

Are these the same Human rights organizations that ignored Soviets Union's Cold War treatment of it's people and occupied countries?

And Russia's destruction of Chechniya.

150 IowaInfidel  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:38:39am
With Israel things are more complicated because Israel states it does not deliberately target civilians and that it safeguards them.

So if Israel stopped saying that it doesn't target civilians, and then some Paleo civilians got killed in an Israeli air strike, it would be ok because then it's a blatant war crime? Uh, ok...

151 Opinionated  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:39:41am

re: #142 Edward Halper

I really can't stand the patronizing attitude towards Arabs that's implicit in the report.

Don't forget that it is the Arabs who always insist that one Israeli prisoner is worth thousands of Arabs. Even dead Israelis.

If they see themselves as worthless in comparison, who are we to argue.

152 nikis-knight  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:40:19am

re: #137 subsailor68

OT, but very important:

The Unconstitutional Compromise

Latest George Will column. He covers the move by members in the House and Senate to "view" the District of Columbia as a "state", with full voting rights. This opens the door to adding two senators (from DC), and as DC votes overwhelmingly Democrat, the bottom line would be two additional Democrat(ic) senators.

He notes that this is part of a deal with Utah to give it a fourth House seat, which appears to be a "bribe" to the two Utah Republican senators.

It seems to me that, if what Mr. Will writes is a) accurate and b) comes to fruition, that conservatives, or Republicans, may have lost the Senate forever - or at least make it a Herculean task to take it back.


Oh yeah, that's a proposal the American people will get behind--give politicians their own representatives! Because surely their interests are not being voiced?
/huh?

153 Terp Mole  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:40:42am

Meanwhile in wacademia, Northwestern-U hosts Ayers w/ Hamas-backer;

...Although the former Weather Underground leader was not encouraging the 350 in attendance to take to the sort of violence he engaged in during the 1960s, he repeatedly challenged them to question the conventional wisdom.

The event, entitled "Peaceful Progress: A Discourse on Effecting Change," also featured speeches by Ayers' wife, Bernardine Dohrn, and Chicago area Muslim activist Rami Nashashibi...

Here's a video of Nashashibi leading a pro-Hamas rally in Chicago last month.

"Who here supports slavery?" asked Ayers...


/without a hint of irony

154 Opinionated  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:40:44am

re: #128 buzzsawmonkey

Time for the building of the Third Template.

Change I could believe in.

155 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:40:45am

re: #127 Wyatt Earp

They celebrated by eating a cheesesteak with Swiss cheese!

Didn't John Effin' Kerry ask for provolone?

:^þ

156 subsailor68  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:42:31am

re: #152 nikis-knight

Oh yeah, that's a proposal the American people will get behind--give politicians their own representatives! Because surely their interests are not being voiced?
/huh?

Well, if it goes the way Will writes, the American people wouldn't have a say. From the article:

But the District is not a state. It is (as the Constitution says in Article I, Section 8) "the seat of the government of the United States." That is why, in 1978, the District's advocates sent to the states a constitutional amendment requiring that "for purposes of representation" the district would be "treated as though it were a state." Only 16 states ratified it, 22 short of the required number. So the District's advocates decided that an amendment is unnecessary -- a statute will suffice because the Constitution empowers Congress "to exercise exclusive legislation" over the District.

157 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:43:13am

re: #137 subsailor68

OT, but very important:

The Unconstitutional Compromise

Latest George Will column. He covers the move by members in the House and Senate to "view" the District of Columbia as a "state", with full voting rights. This opens the door to adding two senators (from DC), and as DC votes overwhelmingly Democrat, the bottom line would be two additional Democrat(ic) senators.

He notes that this is part of a deal with Utah to give it a fourth House seat, which appears to be a "bribe" to the two Utah Republican senators.

It seems to me that, if what Mr. Will writes is a) accurate and b) comes to fruition, that conservatives, or Republicans, may have lost the Senate forever - or at least make it a Herculean task to take it back.

Obama packing the Supreme Court doesn't seen so far-fetched now, does it?

158 itellu3times  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:43:34am

re: #49 Golem Akbar

Wow, where did that come from?

159 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:44:01am

*seem*

pimf

160 realwest  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:45:00am

re: #134 Charles
I have no desire to go to his site. The fact is you have uncovered some extraordinarilly unpleasant (I'm being polite here) things about the Disco Institute and some of it's more well know spokespeople.
I'm glad you've brought it all to light and hope you'll continue to do so.
Thank you Charles.

161 itellu3times  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:45:55am

re: #119 Opinionated

"Palestinians almost never question the legitimacy of firing rockets at Israeli civilians as a form of resistance, and seemed shocked that Israel would go to war over it."

And it is an error to try to convince them otherwise.

The proper response is to kill them otherwise.

162 Throbert McGee  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:46:03am

re: #63 WriterMom

Translation: anything Jews do in self-defence is condemnable, and anything done to Jews, no matter how barbaric, is understandable, acceptable and good for the world.

I don't think this is necessarily a special double-standard for Jews, however -- the American left was also willing to loudly condemn "U.S.-sponsored Imperialist Aggression against the Vietnamese people", while somehow not minding Chinese-sponsored Communist Aggression against the Vietnamese. And during the Cold War, some on the left called for unilateral nuclear disarmament by the U.S. and other Western nuclear powers, based on the (delusional) notion that Soviet arms build-ups were purely a defensive reaction to our militarism, on the part of a Soviet state that would otherwise be inclined to gentleness.

I would assume that the quoted Sarit Micha'eli of B'tselem is a part of precisely this same tradition of a left-winger attacking the left-winger's own people and country.

163 subsailor68  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:46:06am

re: #157 Spiny Norman

Obama packing the Supreme Court doesn't seen so far-fetched now, does it?

Spiny Norman, great minds must think alike. That's the first thing I thought of when I read the column! Hey, if you can "legislate" making DC a 'state' (so to speak), packing the SCOTUS is a cake-walk.

164 abaleh  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:46:54am
165 AuntAcid  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:47:24am

re: #144 bj

Jeez, you mean we been reading that wrong all these years? Feh!

Ipish too...

166 Dave the.....  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:47:39am

The Democrats are working on becoming a perminant majority:

See DC posts above
2010 redistricting
Giving handouts to over 51% of the population
More people working for the gov't then in manufacturing
Creeping socialized healthcare
Manditory gov't funded pre_K

167 itellu3times  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:49:05am

re: #75 justiceforall

AI says that Hamas's attacks on civilians are clearly human rights violations and that Israel's military reaction in which Palestinian civilians were killed was more complicated. And for some LGF readers, that's a bad thing? Please explain.

Hamas' attack on Israel is a clearly acceptable cause for all of Palestine to be wiped out.

Hamas' crime is the one to focus on.

It is in their charter. Anyone claiming membership in Hamas, is a criminal. Anyone supporting Hamas invites a justified death.

That is all.

168 Lowgamma  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:49:15am

How about a little less investigating and a little more condemning (of Hamas).

169 Edward Halper  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:56:19am

re: #151 Opinionated

Don't forget that it is the Arabs who always insist that one Israeli prisoner is worth thousands of Arabs. Even dead Israelis.

If they see themselves as worthless in comparison, who are we to argue.

Good question. My thought is that the Arabs are motivated by shame and honor (like the Greeks in the Iliad). But shame always depends on someone else's judgment. If we could make the Arabs see that suicide attacks, etc. are truly shameful, we could get them to stop. This is why media reports on the middle east as well as sympathetic remarks about Arab victimhood (from B'Tselem, etc.) are so harmful. We in the west need to insist loudly and often that their targeting of innocents is morally unacceptable.

Perhaps, I'm dreaming.

170 Clio  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 9:59:06am

Is it a mistake to that this for a real-life news release?
Are we sure it is not an Iowahawk spoof?

171 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 10:00:20am
172 the_flying_pig  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 10:04:58am

Three words to categorize Amnesty International: Banality of Evil.

173 looking closely  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 10:05:44am

They ignore HAMAS war crimes not because they are "so obvious" but rather because it seems obvious that HAMAS is incorrigible.

With Israel, at least, there is always a chance (in fact a very good one) that external criticism will modify its behavior.

Plus, as a sport, bashing Jews has never gotten old.

174 looking closely  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 10:07:59am

119 opinionated

"Palestinians almost never question the legitimacy of firing rockets at Israeli civilians as a form of resistance, and seemed shocked that Israel would go to war over it."


Then they can consider the recent war a sort of "learning experience".

175 catttt  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 10:09:38am

When a news story sounds like the theme of a Bret Easton Ellis novel, it is not a good thing. This has postmodern dread written all over it.

There are no longer protagonists; there is only the chorus.

~José Ortega y Gasset

176 Basho  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 10:16:04am

re: #173 looking closely

They ignore HAMAS war crimes not because they are "so obvious" but rather because it seems obvious that HAMAS is incorrigible.

With Israel, at least, there is always a chance (in fact a very good one) that external criticism will modify its behavior.

QFT

177 stanleymberg  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 10:41:52am

Bob Dylan once sang "steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you a king."

Israel is imperfect, but actually attempts to do the right thing - for that, they get hammered relentlessly.

Hamas is pure evil, and for that, they get a free pass.

What a fair world we live in, where no good deed EVER goes unpunished.

178 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 11:13:01am
179 Outrider  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 11:24:33am

I don't recall the Israel government or military denying civilians had been killed. Ever. They do deny and with justification, the TARGETING of civilians and innocents.

And the excuse, "everyone knows it so it doesn't have to be said" is lame. Many people only remember what was printed and said. Omission of Gazan atrocities leads many to believe they do not exist, whereas the constant stressing of alleged Israeli atrocities leaves the impression of guilt. These groups know what they are doing and the impact over time.

180 Albigensian  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 11:31:23am

Well, the source of the evil just seems obvious: when Hamas operatives rape Arab women and then convince them that, due to the shame attached to being raped in Arab societies, they have no option other than to sacrifice themselves for Allah via suicide-bomb, it's Israel's fault.

And how could it be otherwise? For if Israel was not "occupied" by Israelis, then there would be no need to destroy it-- and thus no need for the suicide-bombing, and no need for the rape.

After the Sensitivity Camp, you WILL understand...

181 bombarafat  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 11:32:14am

This loon is from a group called "b'tselem" ?
Depending on the Hebrew spelling it would mean "image" or "likeness of".
My question is likeness of what?
Perhaps this group is molded into the likeness of the evil people that want to destroy the Jewish state?
I think that's what they "appear" to be.

182 Dreader1962  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 11:40:37am

If the intent of groups like Amnesty International is to prevent war crimes and human rights violations, why don't they act upon the obvious violations first and then go digging around for the more 'complex' allegations?

The truth is these groups are toothless in the face of REAL evil.

183 Suzette  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 11:43:25am

re: #36 VegasRick

And BO talks about more efficient appliances. Just great.

BHO is just all over this!
///// Complete Sarc!

That man is already a disaster just a couple of weeks into office.

184 odorlesspaintthinner  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 12:19:28pm

Well, let's see. If you go to this page on AI's website, on the "background" to the "Crisis in Gaza:"

[Link: www.amnesty.org...]

Do a "Find" on Israel and you get 12 hits. Do one on "Hamas" and you get 0. So it's so obvious they don't even have to say it.

The FAQ, "How does Amnesty International carry out its work?" is answered:

"All our campaigning and research is fact based. Among the many activities we carry out, we:
-send experts to talk with victims
-observe trials
-interview local officials
-liaise with human rights activists
-monitor global and local media
-publish detailed reports
-inform the news media
-publicize our concerns in documents, leaflets, posters, advertisements, newsletters and websites

So if their means of being effective is to inform, publish and publicize, then the stating that Hamas rockets are obvious means they are not required to inform, publish or publicize. Hence by definition they are giving Hamas a free pass."

This is probably obvious to everyone on here, but seeing the logistics of hypocrisy is sometimes a good exercise.

(It may also be significant that the website is available in English, French, Spanish and Arabic. I don't see Hebrew on there.)

185 notutopia  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 12:25:26pm

So, does this mean that Israel will have to revert to using
non-specific targeted aimed Kossam rockets into Gaza to be exempt from investigations?
What a crock of rationalization these human rights groups are going to think up for use as excuses next.

186 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 12:39:49pm
187 mattm  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 12:49:49pm

This is just pathetic.

188 BeckoningChasm  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 1:03:47pm

This is the most insanely twisted "logic" I have ever encountered.

They seem to be saying that if Israel just started indiscriminately bombing Palestinians, it would be perfectly okay.

The knots that the Left twists itself into to justify their anti-semitism are just astounding.

189 odorlesspaintthinner  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 1:15:26pm

Other ridiculous examples of international and U.S. double-think on Israel & "Palestine:"

First go to this US Dept of State page:

[Link: www.usembassy.gov...]

Go to section "Middle East and North Africa." You see "Israel: Tel Aviv," which okay that's where our embassy is, fine. But right below that is "Jerusalem," with a link in, Hebrew? no, Arabic. Click on the English:

[Link: jerusalem.usconsulate.gov...]

What do you see? Again, a link at the top in Arabic. None in Hebrew. And a bunch of links regarding Gaza. Go to "About the Consulate:"

[Link: jerusalem.usconsulate.gov...]

and you get this:

"All Jerusalem offices are united under the authority of the U.S. Consul General, who heads an independent U.S. mission that is the official diplomatic representation of the United States in Jerusalem, the West Bank, and Gaza. The Consulate General also provides services to American citizens in Jerusalem, the West Bank, and Gaza. Throughout its history, staff of the Consulate General has included Christians, Muslims, and Jews, demonstrating that people of different faiths and nationalities can work together in peace in this region."

So we have an official State Dept. presence in Jerusalem representing us in Jerusalem, West Bank and Gaza (read: "Palestine"). What does this mean? It means we ALREADY see Jerusalem as capital-in-waiting of a "Palestinian state." This isn't some new thing Obama did, by the way. This is U.S. State Dept. policy, for issues that have not been officially resolved yet.

190 nines09  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 1:32:48pm

Amnesty International, eh? Perfect logic. I could see this logic being used to ignore the 3rd Reich. After all, what could be said of Hitler? So blatent.

191 winston06  Thu, Feb 5, 2009 1:50:07pm

The Liberals' moral equivalence crap is disgusting

192 Ron Shaw  Fri, Feb 6, 2009 6:49:15am

The obvious solution would be for Israel to simplify their military mission statement and say its future actions will also be blatant and thus unworthy of investigation. From this point forward, Israel will target and attack civilians indiscriminately as well as enemy combatants.


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