British Middle East Expert: ‘F—- the Jews’

World • Views: 3,476

An antisemitic meltdown by a high-ranking British diplomat has led to his arrest.

A high-ranking diplomat at the Foreign Office has been arrested after allegations that he launched a foul-mouthed anti-Semitic tirade.

Middle East expert Rowan Laxton, 47, was watching TV reports of the Israeli attack on Gaza as he used an exercise bike in a gym. Stunned staff and gym members allegedly heard him shout: ‘F**king Israelis, f**king Jews’. It is alleged he also said Israeli soldiers should be ‘wiped off the face of the earth’. His rant reportedly continued even after he was approached by other gym users.

After a complaint was made to police, Mr Laxton was arrested for inciting religious hatred through threatening words and behaviour and bailed until late next month. The maximum penalty for inciting religious hatred is a seven-year prison term or a fine or both.

I’m not sure which is more disgusting — this antisemitic rant by a British diplomat, or the fact that in Britain you can be imprisoned for seven years because you said some words.

Jump to bottom

699 comments
1 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:37:26am
2 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:38:41am

Maybe he is also related to Blair’s sister in law?

3 SasquatchOnSteroids  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:38:45am

“Middle East expert”

According to guess who..

4 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:39:08am

I have no use for “hate speech” crimes, but this guy should be tossed out of government service.

5 pegcity  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:39:20am

it’s too bad hes not muslim, he would have ended up chairing some interfaith committee

6 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:39:44am

re: #4 unreconstructed rebel

I have no use for “hate speech” crimes, but this guy should be tossed out of government service.

Or maybe given a job at our State Department?

7 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:40:01am
I’m not sure which is more disgusting — this antisemitic rant by a British diplomat, or the fact that in Britain you can be imprisoned for seven years because you said some words.

Insanity on all counts.

8 jcm  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:40:15am

re: #3 SasquatchOnSteroids

“Middle East expert”

According to guess who..

Expert —
Ex - an has been.
spurt - a drip under pressure.

9 capitalist piglet  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:40:19am

Diplomat. Now there’s a misnomer.

10 gatorbait  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:40:31am

Middle East expert? What does one need to do to qualify for ME expert status in the UK? Does it help to be a simple moron?

11 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:41:06am

I agree that it is disgusting and that he should be fired, but I don’t agree that he should be imprisoned.

Words that do actual harm should be punished (slander, libel, incitement, etc.), but “hate” speech as an expression of opinion should not.

12 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:41:14am

I’m surprised they’re prosecuting for saying this. I thought you had to say something bad against Muslims to be prosecuted.

If this works, they can shut down all the mosques in England for saying basically the same thing.

But actually, I agree that only actual threats of violence should be illegal.

13 capitalist piglet  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:41:25am

re: #4 unreconstructed rebel

I have no use for “hate speech” crimes, but this guy should be tossed out of government service.

That would be appropriate, I think.

/understatement

14 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:41:40am
The maximum penalty for inciting religious hatred is a seven-year prison term or a fine or both.

7 years? Wow.

15 Bloodnok  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:41:41am

I absolutely despise what he said, but he should be Free as a bird, Unemployed as Hell.

16 Viking6  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:41:46am

So 7 years is the consequence for religious blasphemy, boy no wonder you don’t hear anything bad about ROP in the UK.

17 x-wing  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:41:53am

re: #10 gatorbait

Middle East expert? What does one need to do to qualify for ME expert status in the UK? Does it help to be a simple moron?

Looks like hating Jooos is the only requirement.

18 Racer X  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:41:55am
The maximum penalty for inciting religious hatred is a seven-year prison term or a fine or both.


WTF?

Does this work both ways?

19 opnion  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:41:59am

THe guy is obviously not qualified for the foreign service, but busted?

20 JohnnyReb  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:42:19am

The US is going to become this way also. With all that “hate speech” legislation going on, sooner or later a bunch of it is going to get passed.

I do not like it one bit.

21 soccerdad  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:42:59am
I’m not sure which is more disgusting — this antisemitic rant by a British diplomat, or the fact that in Britain you can be imprisoned for seven years because you said some words.

The latter. infinitely more chilling. So…free speech is dead in the UK.

22 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:43:23am
He is responsible for all the UK’s diplomacy in that area and for briefing Foreign Secretary David Miliband, who is Jewish.

Mr Laxton has worked extensively in the Middle East - he married a Muslim woman in 2000 - and has been deputy ambassador to Afghanistan.


I can’t imagine he’s going to keep his job.

23 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:43:31am

Sen. Enzi (R-WY): “The emperor has no clothes….Frankly, I’ve had enough of this bailout baloney”

24 Ben Hur  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:43:35am

Atone for your rape of the world!

25 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:43:53am

re: #23 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Sen. Enzi (R-WY): “The emperor has no clothes….Frankly, I’ve had enough of this bailout baloney”

Oooo, please post the link so that we can read it all!

26 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:44:07am

re: #20 JohnnyReb

The US is going to become this way also. With all that “hate speech” legislation going on, sooner or later a bunch of it is going to get passed.

I do not like it one bit.

The day that happens, I will again unfurl the Stars & Bars.

27 doppelganglander  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:44:22am

Honestly, I’m shocked the hate speech law was applied against anti-Semitic speech.

28 x-wing  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:44:24am

re: #22 Killgore Trout

I can’t imagine he’s going to keep his job.


Did he have to convert to Islam?

29 YMedad  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:44:25am

If I call you an idiot, a word, nu, so what? But if I besmirch a whole national/ethnic group so that those words can injure or harm someone who is not at all connected to the argument between you and I on whether you or I am an idiot.

30 alexwest  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:44:37am

This kind of language should not be made illegal. Wingnuts must not fear consequences for voicing their true opinions.

And besides - every once and while, they may turn out to be right (NOT IN THIS CASE, IMLTHO - NOT EVEN CLOSE)

31 Lawrence Schmerel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:44:40am

In Britain, if you say ‘F—- the Jews’ out loud you are punished.

But, if you work tirelessly to actually ‘F—- the Jews,’ they make you a Middle East Expert.

32 Racer X  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:44:40am
Mr Laxton was arrested for inciting religious hatred through threatening words and behaviour and bailed until late next month. The maximum penalty for inciting religious hatred is a seven-year prison term or a fine or both.

Does this law also apply to the many Imams preaching hate in the UK?

I didn’t think so.

33 Ariel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:44:43am

This fellow is head of the South Asia Group at the Foreign Office. He’s in a position of responsibility. It looks like some of Obama’s tax vetters may have checked out this guy for the sanity of his views.

34 Bloodnok  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:44:46am

re: #23 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Sen. Enzi (R-WY): “The emperor has no clothes….Frankly, I’ve had enough of this bailout baloney”

The MSM is salivating at that visual.

35 AG in Houston  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:44:48am

No way this guy should have been arrested.

Freedom of speech should preclude the perptrator of nasty speech from government punishment. It is not the government’s business.

It does not preclude me from kicking his ass but that would subject me to prosecution.

Nasty Jew hatred. There is some bad craziness in the world right now.

36 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:44:55am

James Baker is probably one of his friends.

37 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:45:01am
38 avanti  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:45:02am

Speech, even unpopular speech should almost always be protected. I hate the idea of a neo Nazi rally in A Jewish community for example, but I’m glad we have a constitution that allows even the unpopular minority to have a voice.

“In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

And then … they came for me … And by that time there was no one left to speak up.”

[edit] Poem (1976 version)

39 Jack Burton  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:45:02am

The cops must not have got the memo about how the doubleplusungood crimethink: “inciting religious hatred” only counts if the religion is Islam.

40 YMedad  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:45:35am

…then these words, especially if they are intended to stir up irrational emotions that may lead to criminal actions need be punished.

41 Kragar  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:45:45am

re: #23 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Sen. Enzi (R-WY): “The emperor has no clothes….Frankly, I’ve had enough of this bailout baloney”

Barney Frank will be all over that.

42 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:46:10am
43 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:46:19am

re: #25 goddessoftheclassroom

Oooo, please post the link so that we can read it all!

He’s speaking on the Senate floor now.

44 anotherindyfilmguy  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:46:23am
I’m not sure which is more disgusting — this antisemitic rant by a British diplomat, or the fact that in Britain you can be imprisoned for seven years because you said some words.


Looking at what he is and where he was in politics etc both are about equally as bad.

Sure, some trash was taken out, ironically using the laws supposed to silence the opposition to such scum etc… but on the other hand it is a sad day to see when we are reminded that freedom of speech seems to be more of a US thing than anything else for now barring a run at the “fairness doctrine etc…

45 jaunte  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:46:33am

Hate speech laws appear to have the effect of keeping some people’s hate inside, and close to the boiling point.

46 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:46:36am

re: #28 x-wing

I think just his wife is Muslim. He might not be a convert.

47 Racer X  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:46:59am

Mammoth Mountain Cam - The Village

What’s all that white stuff on the ground?

48 jemima  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:47:02am

Perfect. He’ll be sent to prison, be da’waed and come out a muslim. Not only will he then really hate Jews, he’ll be prepared to strap on some C4 to prove it.

49 SpartanWoman  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:47:21am

re: #27 doppelganglander

Honestly, I’m shocked the hate speech law was applied against anti-Semitic speech.

Me too. I would think this sort of speech would be considered “protectedz’ in Europe.

50 Opinionated  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:47:28am

Charles: Without reading the statute, the story reports that for a conviction more then just hate words are required. There is a necessity for accompanying behavior.

51 Rexatosis  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:47:30am

Back in the days of the Empire they would have said Rowan had gone “native,” essentially forgetting he served Queen and Country rather than the “colonials.” It happens rather frequently in the Foreign Service (or State Department).

52 rightside  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:47:55am

Mandy, I tried to catch you in the last thread asking you what you were quoting in #46:

“Kiryat Gat means something to us,” she said. “It has the only factory for Intel chips outside the United States. The make the chips there for your computer in the city of Kiryat Gat. Kiryat Gat was hit, as were many of the other cities within the radius.”

53 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:47:57am
54 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:48:33am
55 SpartanWoman  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:48:35am

re: #48 jemima

Perfect. He’ll be sent to prison, be da’waed and come out a muslim. Not only will he then really hate Jews, he’ll be prepared to strap on some C4 to prove it.

Maybe his estranged wife in the UAE will pay for his defense

56 Ringo the Gringo  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:48:53am

If Mr. Laxton had been more careful and only cursed the “Zionists” then I’m sure he would be in no trouble at all right now.

57 NYCHardhat  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:48:57am
I’m not sure which is more disgusting — this antisemitic rant by a British diplomat, or the fact that in Britain you can be imprisoned for seven years because you said some words.

The fact that you could get seven years for it.

Hate speech is vile, but c’mon!

58 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:49:16am
59 Ben Hur  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:49:27am

Why is it that HE was arrested and not the Jihadis running around London calling for the extermination of Jews?

60 Ringo the Gringo  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:49:39am

Laws against “inciting religious hatred”, when they succeed, only succeed in making sure that we never find out how people such as Rowan Laxton really feel.

61 Croc-Wearing Authoritarian  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:49:44am

re: #46 Killgore Trout

I think just his wife is Muslim. He might not be a convert.

Muslim women aren’t allowed to marry infidels, only Muslim men are.

62 Kragar  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:50:07am

Personally, I find the very idea of “hate crimes” abhorrent. A crime is a crime regardless of who inflicts what to whom. The thought that you can beat a man to death and its worse of a crime because you did it maybe because he was gay or his skin color is ridiculous. The idea that someone can face criminal charges over non-slander, non criminal opinions is mind boggling

63 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:50:20am
64 SpartanWoman  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:50:31am

re: #59 Ben Hur

Why is it that HE was arrested and not the Jihadis running around London calling for the extermination of Jews?

Excellent point, I suspect Mr Laxton is considered non threatening and the unarmed police did not feel the need to run from HIM

65 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:50:34am
66 goddessoftheclassroom  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:50:46am

BBL

67 Rednek  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:50:47am
I’m not sure which is more disgusting — this antisemitic rant by a British diplomat, or the fact that in Britain you can be imprisoned for seven years because you said some words.

A pox on both their houses.

68 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:50:56am

re: #61 Alouette

In the UK people can marry whoever they want. He might not be a Muslim.

69 NYCHardhat  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:51:01am

So does this mean our current administration will start handing out 7 year prison terms…? To themselves.

70 FrogMarch  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:51:05am

Shameful and scary.
The removal of free speech rights is a scary thing. With the Democrats in charge, expect more of it here in the US.

71 doppelganglander  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:51:13am

re: #51 Rexatosis

Back in the days of the Empire they would have said Rowan had gone “native,” essentially forgetting he served Queen and Country rather than the “colonials.” It happens rather frequently in the Foreign Service (or State Department).

It’s not surprising. I think you have to have a degree of empathy for or feel somewhat drawn to the culture in order to understand it and work effectively with the people there.

72 x-wing  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:51:16am

re: #46 Killgore Trout

I think just his wife is Muslim. He might not be a convert.

Just wondering. I thought that was a rule, that if you marry a Muslim,you must convert.

73 yma o hyd  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:51:39am

re: #5 pegcity

it’s too bad hes not muslim, he would have ended up chairing some interfaith committee

Spot on!

This is NuLab-istan - and while it may seem strange to you all that the top term of imprisonment for saying a few words is seven years, well, its hate speech, innit.
It was meant to be used against those who denigrate all non-white British people, and especially those of a certain religion.
it was meant to be used against the hard-core BNP.

But the law of unintended (or perhaps not so unintended? Who can say!) consequences means that some sheik can spew forth all sorts of racial slurs and antisemitic hate speeches without being hauled in front of the courts.

Mind - disgusting and despicable as that man is, where are the criminal court procedures against those antisemitc hate speechifiers at those rallies against Israel?
Ah - they belong to the ROP …

Watch out - this will be coming to a court near you, soon …

74 jaunte  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:51:45am

“The case could not have come at a worse time for the Foreign Office. Next week, Britain is hosting an international summit on combating anti-Semitism, with politicians from 35 countries.”

We’ll have to keep an eye on developments.

75 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:52:22am
76 Croc-Wearing Authoritarian  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:52:29am

re: #68 Killgore Trout

In the UK people can marry whoever they want. He might not be a Muslim.

But if a Muslim woman marries an infidel, she could be honour-killed. Yes, even in the UK.

77 yma o hyd  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:53:15am

re: #18 Racer X

WTF?

Does this work both ways?

No.
If you belong to the ROP, its fine, ist ‘yer culture’, innit, like.

Those people schreeching at the rallies against Israel have not been accused of ‘hate speech’.

78 NYCHardhat  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:53:17am

re: #76 Alouette

But if a Muslim woman marries an infidel, she could be honour-killed. Yes, even in the UK.

And tell me why this PC world has to tolerate “different cultures”

79 Opinionated  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:53:20am

re: #58 MandyManners

I read nothing about any behavior.

Mr Laxton was arrested for inciting religious hatred through threatening words and behaviour.

Just a guess. But I will assume that words are not sufficient for conviction. A trier of fact will have to determine if there was also behavior that merits a conviction.

I doubt from the facts as presented that he will be convicted.

80 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:53:28am
81 jaunte  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:53:31am

re: #75 buzzsawmonkey

I wonder if they’re using the revisionist definition of Anti-Semitism?

82 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:53:51am

re: #74 jaunte

“The case could not have come at a worse time for the Foreign Office. Next week, Britain is hosting an international summit on combating anti-Semitism, with politicians from 35 countries.”

We’ll have to keep an eye on developments.

re: #76 Alouette

But if a Muslim woman marries an infidel, she could be honour-killed. Yes, even in the UK.

Durban III?

83 realwest  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:54:01am

re: #62 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)“Personally, I find the very idea of “hate crimes” abhorrent.” Couldn’t have said it better myself.
I am sorta abivelent about this Anit-Semite, but ultimately think his “punishment” for saying those statements should be to have him yanked from his seat - but I can’t see sending him to prison for saying those things.

84 yma o hyd  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:54:31am

re: #31 Lawrence Schmerel

In Britain, if you say ‘F—- the Jews’ out loud you are punished.

But, if you work tirelessly to actually ‘F—- the Jews,’ they make you a Middle East Expert.


Ye’re not punished if you happen to be … a muslim.

85 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:54:36am

The part about “wiping out the Israelis” could be considered incitement, but it’s definitely borderline. I’d honestly rather the haters be able to speak and be identified.

86 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:54:45am
87 kynna  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:54:55am
I’m not sure which is more disgusting — this antisemitic rant by a British diplomat, or the fact that in Britain you can be imprisoned for seven years because you said some words.

My thoughts exactly.

We’re only a half-step behind, unfortunately.

88 doppelganglander  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:54:57am

re: #61 Alouette

Muslim women aren’t allowed to marry infidels, only Muslim men are.

A friend of mine married a Muslim woman, whom I haven’t met. She was invited to be godmother to his niece and only declined when it was explained to her that it involved overseeing the child’s religious education. Although if they asked her to be the godmother, I can’t imagine they were all that concerned about the child’s religious education. Anyway, it sounds like she’s very much accepted in the family and that’s a good thing.

89 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:55:08am

re: #72 x-wing

I thought that was a rule, that if you marry a Muslim,you must convert.


There are Jews who eat pork, Muslims who drink alcohol and Catholics use condoms. People do all kinds of things.

90 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:55:27am

re: #86 MandyManners

Was he flinging his arms about? Stomping up and down?

Jumping up and down on his treadmill instead of running?

91 Last Mohican  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:56:35am

re: #72 x-wing

Just wondering. I thought that was a rule, that if you marry a Muslim,you must convert.

Probably. But there are people of all religions who don’t follow all the rules.

It bears investigation, though. Because, if it turns out that he DID convert to Islam, then they’ll have to free him immediately.

92 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:57:00am

I wonder who vented this guy for his job? The Obama transition team?

93 NYCHardhat  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:57:20am

Great movie by the way.

94 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:58:03am

re: #45 jaunte

Hate speech laws appear to have the effect of keeping some people’s hate inside, and close to the boiling point.

I think it’s worse than that. Criminalizing speech doesn’t change the hatred that causes the speech. Instead, it acts as a sort of evolutionary pressure (connections!) and forces the haters to hide their agenda and work undercover to achieve their goals. Rather than wiping out hatred, it ends up making it much worse, by making the haters smarter.

95 joncelli  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:58:18am

re: #92 Nevergiveup

I wonder who vented this guy for his job

Wishful thinking?

//I keed, I keed.

96 nyc redneck  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:58:32am

it is easier for them to rant abt. the jews. they are civilized and present no danger.
but these anti-semitic people are cowards, afraid to even look at the head choppers and reflect on their savagery.

97 Pious Agnostic  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:58:35am
I’m not sure which is more disgusting — this antisemitic rant by a British diplomat, or the fact that in Britain you can be imprisoned for seven years because you said some words.

Amen, Charles!

/oops!

98 NYCHardhat  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:58:41am

re: #94 Charles

I think it’s worse than that. Criminalizing speech doesn’t change the hatred that cause the speech. Instead, it acts as a sort of evolutionary pressure (connections!) and forces the haters to hide their agenda and work undercover to achieve their goals. Rather than wiping out hatred, it ends up making it much worse, by making the haters smarter.

Couldn’t have said it better.

99 realwest  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:58:59am

re: #79 Opinionated

Mr Laxton was arrested for inciting religious hatred through threatening words and behaviour.

Just a guess. But I will assume that words are not sufficient for conviction. A trier of fact will have to determine if there was also behavior that merits a conviction.

I doubt from the facts as presented that he will be convicted.

I’m not so sure of that. IIRC, GB has “hate crime laws” such as the one in Canada where Ezra Levant had to answer to a Hate Crimes Tribunal - I don’t think he’s gonna see the inside of a court room, but maybe one of the hearing rooms for people accused of uttering hate crimes (words only).

But at a MINIMUM he should be shit canned from the Foreign Office immediately.

100 abaleh  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:59:02am

re: #22 Killgore Trout

I can’t imagine he’s going to keep his job.

He’ll get a promotion.

101 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:59:14am

re: #22 Killgore Trout

I can’t imagine he’s going to keep his job.

That’s OK. He can work for the Saudis, Al Jazeera, or many other places.
/I wish not

102 Rexatosis  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:59:15am

RE: #71 Doppelganglander

Orwell’s “Burmese Days” covers the process fairly well. But in the end Rowan serves Queen and Country not the Palestinians.

103 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 10:59:50am

re: #102 Rexatosis

RE: #71 Doppelganglander

Orwell’s “Burmese Days” covers the process fairly well. But in the end Rowan serves Queen and Country not the Palestinians.

Sometimes it sure seems that it is one and the same.

104 Kragar  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:00:40am

re: #83 realwest

“Personally, I find the very idea of “hate crimes” abhorrent.” Couldn’t have said it better myself.
I am sorta abivelent about this Anit-Semite, but ultimately think his “punishment” for saying those statements should be to have him yanked from his seat - but I can’t see sending him to prison for saying those things.

I agree he should have to face disciplinary action for his statement due to his position. I just feel that calling them criminal is taking it too far.

Now, I do feel his work should be audited and a hearing held to see if his opinions biased his work and led him to perform criminal actions.

105 Opinionated  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:01:26am

re: #86 MandyManners

Was he flinging his arms about? Stomping up and down?

It doesn’t make sense that he was arrested unless he was asked to leave and resisted.

More then for hate speech he should be convicted for divulging State secrets. That the British Government Foreign Office is an Israel hating swamp.

106 yma o hyd  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:02:07am

re: #94 Charles

I think it’s worse than that. Criminalizing speech doesn’t change the hatred that causes the speech. Instead, it acts as a sort of evolutionary pressure (connections!) and forces the haters to hide their agenda and work undercover to achieve their goals. Rather than wiping out hatred, it ends up making it much worse, by making the haters smarter.

True - but getting hate speech criminalised makes the people who get this written into the law books feel so much better about themselves!

And it is of course a nice little earner for those lawyers tasked with scrutinising the written and spoken proclamations of the true haters, so that they stay within that law.

Thats why and how parties like the BNP can flourish.

107 Amer-I-Can  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:02:38am

Unfortunately, Britain is circling the toilet bowl when it comes to “Free Speech” or “Religious Diversity”. This clown should lose his soft government job for this nonsense, but seven years? Give me a break.

108 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:03:20am

OT. I found Obama’s speach published online. It may be worth taking it apart line by line.

Remarks of President Barack Obama

109 Croc-Wearing Authoritarian  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:03:33am

re: #87 kynna

My thoughts exactly.

We’re only a half-step behind, unfortunately.

But Canada is still ahead of us.

110 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:03:36am

OT -

You know, I don’t know what to say anymore (at least for today) that I haven’t said before (or someone did)… I’m just not in the mood today…

For a matter of fact…

111 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:03:36am

re: #47 Racer X

Mammoth Mountain Cam - The Village

What’s all that white stuff on the ground?

Frozen global warming flakes.

112 fish  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:03:44am

re: #26 unreconstructed rebel

The day that happens, I will again unfurl the Stars & Bars.

Would it be OK if this long time Yankee joins you?

113 rightside  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:04:12am

re: #108 Honorary Yooper


Done.

“Blah, blah, blah. Pass my porkulus bill. Rinse & Repeat.

114 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:04:39am
115 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:05:38am

re: #108 Honorary Yooper

OT. I found Obama’s speach published online. It may be worth taking it apart line by line.

Remarks of President Barack Obama

“plan will save or create three to four million jobs”

I never heard the “save” part before, just the create. Is he moving the target already?

116 tfc3rid  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:06:30am

re: #115 Walter L. Newton

“plan will save or create three to four million jobs”

I never heard the “save” part before, just the create. Is he moving the target already?

I had heard that already… He is moving the goalposts… Shocking.

117 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:06:49am

I hear that Al Jazeera’s hiring…
/sarc

118 LGoPs  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:06:52am

So much for the vaunted British ‘reserve’ and stiff upper lip……

119 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:07:01am
120 justiceforall  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:07:07am

Charles, I share your confusion. What this guy said was horrible, but can you really have a true democracy without freedom of speech?

121 subsailor68  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:07:22am

re: #108 Honorary Yooper

OT. I found Obama’s speach published online. It may be worth taking it apart line by line.

Remarks of President Barack Obama

Economists from across the spectrum have warned that if we don’t act immediately, millions more jobs will be lost, and national unemployment rates will approach double digits. More people will lose their homes and their health care. And our nation will sink into a crisis that, at some point, we may be unable to reverse.

Um, you might want to check with the CBO Mr. President. They’re not as enthusiastic about your stimulus package as you are.

122 doppelganglander  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:08:03am

re: #114 buzzsawmonkey

In what way?

Flory, the hero of “Burmese Days,” has not “gone native” in any significant way; he merely longs for someone who will share his own thoughts which go beyond the straitjacket of the colonial reflex. He believes that he has done so with a woman fresh out from Britain, but finds that he is mistaken—and commits suicide when he finds out his mistake.

But Flory never repudiates the colonial “code”; he merely wants to be able to take a break from it now and then, and throughout the book bows to it rather than buck it whenever matters come to the fore in public.


I am going to have to put that on my reading list. When I think of “going native,” I think of “Lawrence of Arabia” (which was on TCM this weekend, actually).

123 tfc3rid  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:08:11am

re: #120 justiceforall

Charles, I share your confusion. What this guy said was horrible, but can you really have a true democracy without freedom of speech?

No… You can’t… The UK is not a democracy.

124 jaunte  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:08:11am

re: #119 buzzsawmonkey

I’m thinking of those folks who say that the Jews are Khazars, and the Arabs are the true Semites.

125 tfc3rid  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:08:54am

re: #121 subsailor68

In addition, there are plenty of economists that think the existing bill is really dangerously bad…

126 doppelganglander  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:08:55am

re: #115 Walter L. Newton

“plan will save or create three to four million jobs”

I never heard the “save” part before, just the create. Is he moving the target already?

There’s no way to count saved jobs, therefore he can declare victory no matter how many jobs the economy is hemorrhaging.

127 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:09:11am

re: #112 fish

Would it be OK if this long time Yankee joins you?

Absolutely!

128 Wyatt Earp  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:09:14am

re: #120 justiceforall

Charles, I share your confusion. What this guy said was horrible, but can you really have a true democracy without freedom of speech?

No. Drum him out of the Foreign Office, but prison?

129 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:10:11am

re: #121 subsailor68

I’ve found that when a politician is claiming that a situation is dire and needs a bill passed PDQ, the less dire the situation really is.

BHO is full of crap, IMHO, but it’s still worth ripping apart what he says.

130 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:10:15am

re: #115 Walter L. Newton

“plan will save or create three to four million jobs”

I never heard the “save” part before, just the create. Is he moving the target already?

He added the “save” part right after the election, I remember Glen Beck or someone commenting on that.

131 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:10:25am
132 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:10:38am
133 subsailor68  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:10:57am

re: #125 tfc3rid

In addition, there are plenty of economists that think the existing bill is really dangerously bad…

Yes there are! Two who come to mind are Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams.

134 looking closely  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:10:57am
I’m not sure which is more disgusting — this antisemitic rant by a British diplomat, or the fact that in Britain you can be imprisoned for seven years because you said some words.

Tough call.

I’d say in absolute terms that the latter is more disgusting (that you can go to jail for being a bigot).

Freedom of speech should protect so-called “hate speech”. . .the whole point of freedom of speech is to protect unpopular speech.

Its embarassing for Britain that they have a bigoted diplomat (and from what I have heard, a tremendous amount of casual Jew-hatred), though that has to be offset at least in part by the fact that they threw the book at this man.

135 opnion  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:10:59am

re: #115 Walter L. Newton

“plan will save or create three to four million jobs”

I never heard the “save” part before, just the create. Is he moving the target already?

Obama made everything sound so easy during the campaign. His enlightened leadership was the solution to all of our problems.
Now it’s just all so dogone hard.

136 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:11:15am
137 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:11:22am

re: #126 doppelganglander

There’s no way to count saved jobs, therefore he can declare victory no matter how many jobs the economy is hemorrhaging.

Sure. He’ll take the current employment figures, subtract those who got laid off, and take credit for everyone who didn’t get laid off.
Isn’t that how it works in DC?

138 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:11:30am

re: #108 Honorary Yooper

OT. I found Obama’s speach published online. It may be worth taking it apart line by line.

Remarks of President Barack Obama

“Now, you may have heard some of the critics of our plan saying that it would create mostly government jobs. That’s simply not true. More than 90 percent of these jobs will be in the private sector. More than 90 percent.”

How can he say that? If the money is going through federal or state agencies and programs, then it’s not private. In the least, you will be working for someone who is working as a contractor for the government.

This is an old trick. When I went to work for the National Renewable Energy Lab in 1993, they were in the process of laying off almost 900 people.

At the same time, they were hiring contractors and even some of the full time employees as contractors. I was hired as a contractor, and stay one for two years.

Contractor expenses are technically on a different set of books than EMPLOYEES.

The money, and the way it’s spent, the rules, all of the stuff, is still dictated by the state or federal government. It’s still working for the government.

Lying sack of horse shit.

139 tfc3rid  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:11:36am

re: #129 Honorary Yooper

I’ve found that when a politician is claiming that a situation is dire and needs a bill passed PDQ, the less dire the situation really is.

BHO is full of crap, IMHO, but it’s still worth ripping apart what he says.

But what really needs to happen is a filibuster…

140 Kragar  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:12:00am

re: #129 Honorary Yooper

I’ve found that when a politician is claiming that a situation is dire and needs a bill passed PDQ, the less dire the situation really is.

BHO is full of crap, IMHO, but it’s still worth ripping apart what he says.

If there is one thing I’ve learned in life, its this. Its time to start asking questions when a politican says there is no time to ask questions.

Ref: Al Gore, Nancy Pelosi, Barry Obama, Harry Reid

141 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:12:12am

re: #135 opnion

Obama made everything sound so easy during the campaign. His enlightened leadership was the solution to all of our problems.
Now it’s just all so dogone hard.

Garlic Head has no idea what he signed-on for.

142 joncelli  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:12:23am

re: #124 jaunte

Um, Khazars? The Khazars converted to Judaism. See the Russian primary chronicles; it was a Khazar delegation that attempted to persuade the Russians to shed paganism and become Jews (and a muslim delegation tried to do the same, but the Russians became Christians because “drink is the joy of the Russes.”)

143 Croc-Wearing Authoritarian  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:12:32am

re: #119 buzzsawmonkey

What is the “revisionist definition”?

Arabs are Semites, therefore, anyone who expresses negative opinions of Arabs or Muslims is “anti-Semitic.”

144 tfc3rid  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:12:47am

re: #138 Walter L. Newton

But he will get away with it…

145 opnion  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:12:52am

re: #129 Honorary Yooper

I’ve found that when a politician is claiming that a situation is dire and needs a bill passed PDQ, the less dire the situation really is.

BHO is full of crap, IMHO, but it’s still worth ripping apart what he says.

Right out of the Saul Aliksky playbook.

146 Lively  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:13:30am

re: #140 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

If there is one thing I’ve learned in life, its this. Its time to start asking questions when a politican says there is no time to ask questions.

Ref: Al Gore, Nancy Pelosi, Barry Obama, Harry Reid

You can ask….but sometimes they’ll just sit there and eat a waffle.

147 ayatollah ghilmeini  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:13:47am

I recall reading his wife is Muslim.

This guy and his situation are all that is wrong in Europe. The beast and the evil in the European heart towards Jews and Israel is a complete part of this man.

Europe tries to deal with it by banning free expression which does not solve the problem. This man, based on his position, went to all the best schools and knows all the right people. A man of influence and position, advising the British FM and FO on Mid East policy but doing so from a completely anti-Israel perspective.

I am glad that Israel is a mighty power because if the Jews are ever left to likes of the Rowan Laxtons of this world, we will surely be killed. I sometimes wonder what it is about diplomacy that seems to attract rabid anti-semites like flies to excrement. Breckenridge Long, the DSoS during WWII was a flaming Jew hater. He made sure Hitler didn’t have to hit a moving target. How many times over the years did Laxton advise and report things to the British government that led to policies, that became agreements with Israel that resulted in the death and injury of Jews?

Britain has a happy kireitsu of the Guardian and BBC PC news organizations advocating subtly for policies to a Ministry whose officials are preprogrammed to accept the message. Only things that lead to Israel’s destruction are considered wise or good policy for her majesty’s government. And now we know why here we finally have one of their “experts” on the record. He knows just who to blame and just whats wrong. It is the JEWS! JEWS! JEWS! JEWS! You can just see him blaming Israel for Hamas and complaining of there being no military solution and the need to end the cycle of violence by negotiating with the terrorists. Jews need to stop fighting back so we can be killed more easily. Of course if we want to survive ignoring the Foreign Office and Guardian editorials is the smart course of action.

I do regret he faces prison for speaking his mind, it offends my notions of free speech, but given what is on his mind, I won’t mind in the least if he is reminded by the imposition of a hate speech prosecution that such laws were created because the danger such minded people have posed over the generations. He is a posterchild for the hatred in the heart of British Government.

Enjoy your time before the mast, Laxton, you richly deserve it.

148 Last Mohican  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:13:48am

re: #94 Charles

I think it’s worse than that. Criminalizing speech doesn’t change the hatred that causes the speech. Instead, it acts as a sort of evolutionary pressure (connections!) and forces the haters to hide their agenda and work undercover to achieve their goals. Rather than wiping out hatred, it ends up making it much worse, by making the haters smarter.

I agree with that. But I’m not sure if I agree completely on the social value of “hate speech” laws. I find myself feeling grateful that, in many places in Europe, it is illegal to hold a massive rally under banners with swastikas and portraits of Adolf Hitler, giving speeches about how Hitler had it right, how the evil Jews kidnap gentile babies and drink their blood, and how maintaining the purity of the population requires killing all the Jews immediately, as soon as you leave this rally.

On the other hand, it feels very wrong to me that Rowan Laxton should be arrested for what he said. And even more wrong that he could be sentenced to up to seven years in prison for what he did. Although I doubt that will happen — I suspect that the maximum penalty is probably reserved more for the “Nazi rally” type offenders.

One thing’s for sure: this sort of incident certainly explains a lot about British foreign policy.

149 tfc3rid  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:13:55am

re: #145 opnion

Right out of the Saul Aliksky playbook.

Obama is proving to be all that we thought he was and more…

150 ORD neighbor  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:13:56am
“It is alleged he also said Israeli soldiers should be ‘wiped off the face of the earth’.”


How’s this different from Iran’s Mahmoud or the daily fare on hamas or PA TV, or various other jihadist channels? Rowan has different tastes in clothing, cuisine and a different accent?

Did this happen to be just a momentary and regrettable loss of self-control due to being upset?

“His rant reportedly continued even after he was approached by other gym users.”


So much for diplomacy. And we all thought British diplomats, of all people, were, well, diplomatic. Not much of a stiff upper lip in this case.

But this apparently does not disqualify him from being in charge of the issues he opined upon in such an undiplomatic fashion.

“Mr Laxton, who is still working normally, is head of the South Asia Group at the Foreign Office, on a salary of around £70,000. He is responsible for all the UK’s diplomacy in that area and for briefing Foreign Secretary David Miliband”


Apparently his bosses share his ideas, but simply have more sense than to express them in crude and public ways. Does not make their ideas any better.

What else is he up to?

“Mr Laxton has worked extensively in the Middle East - he married a Muslim woman in 2000 - and has been deputy ambassador to Afghanistan.”


No wonder things are going badly there.

Quite ironic:

“The case could not have come at a worse time for the Foreign Office. Next week, Britain is hosting an international summit on combating anti-Semitism, with politicians from 35 countries. “


Hmm… He should be Exhibit A on that. His country, Exhibit B. Funny how that happened.

USN better have contingency plans on those Tridents on loan to UK. A guy that shares his ideas could conceivably end up in a position with launch authority. That would be a very bad thing.

151 kynna  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:13:59am

re: #94 Charles

I think it’s worse than that. Criminalizing speech doesn’t change the hatred that causes the speech. Instead, it acts as a sort of evolutionary pressure (connections!) and forces the haters to hide their agenda and work undercover to achieve their goals. Rather than wiping out hatred, it ends up making it much worse, by making the haters smarter.

Another effect is to spread the criminalization outward so that eventually dissent is outlawed because it can be construed as ‘hate’. Our recent presidential campaign is a great example of how ‘hate’ can be applied to criticism, thereby changing the argument and vilifying the dissenter. Make it a law and you’ve got people in prison for saying Barak Obama is a walking disaster in foreign policy.

152 Athos  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:14:17am

re: #120 justiceforall

Charles, I share your confusion. What this guy said was horrible, but can you really have a true democracy without freedom of speech?

The 1st Amendment, which provides free speech protections, still includes some restrictions around unlimited free speech. ‘Fighting Words’ or the use of speech which threatens the public safety (yelling Fire in a crowded theater when no such threat exists) are excluded from free speech protections.

Ultimately, it is a common sense thing - which is probably why the fascists feel the need to have to legislate around common sense.

Clearly, this pinhead needs to lose his job. Any of those at the gym and offended by his outburst should feel free to sue him for assault. But beyond that, the only other thing this nimrod needs to have to worry about is if someone will kick his ass for his use of ‘fighting words’. Jail time isn’t warranted. It will solve nothing. We need to see these bigots in the light of day so they can be confronted and discredited.

153 Rexatosis  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:14:29am

Re: 103 Creeping Eruption

That is one of the biggest problems in Western Foreign Services, the bureaucratic institutions have tolerated the process of “going native” for years and as such now have become far too suseptible to supporting the “natives’” policy desires rather than their own country’s interests. I would argue Amb. Wilson and his wife’s actions vis-a-vis the Bush administrations policies were a direct result of Wilson’s “going native” (my interpretation) during the first Gulf War (see the various Bush I accounts of the war).

154 jaunte  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:14:43am

re: #142 joncelli

Yes, it’s just that the Khazars are used as a means for anti-semites to say that Israel shouldn’t exist.

155 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:14:53am

re: #144 tfc3rid

But he will get away with it…

I know. But really, this is government contracting/employment 101. It’s not a BIG SECRET.

156 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:15:15am
157 nyc redneck  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:15:23am

rush now talking abt. how it will be the elderly who get shafted in O’s health care plan.
he also said calls are over 100 to 1 against the prok bill.
way too much lard. and the public knows it.

158 Racer X  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:15:25am

re: #149 tfc3rid

Obama is proving to be all that we thought he was and more…

Our worst nightmare.

159 opnion  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:15:56am

re: #141 unreconstructed rebel

Garlic Head has no idea what he signed-on for.

He uh, um ,er,uh ,uh didn’t know that the uh , decisions would be so big

160 phillies2008  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:16:01am

If I were as ugly as he is, I would be filled with irrational hate too.

161 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:16:26am
162 mikalm  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:16:39am

“Free speech makes it easier to spot the idiots.” — MikalM

163 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:17:21am
164 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:17:25am

re: #162 mikalm

“Free speech makes it easier to spot the idiots.” — MikalM

That’s worth a ding. (Never thought about it that way.)

165 Croc-Wearing Authoritarian  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:17:26am

re: #161 buzzsawmonkey

OK, quick comment: “antisemite” was coined by a German (Wilhelm Marr) in the 19th century for the express purpose of giving a nice pseudoscientific-sounding name to good old-fashioned Jew hate. Marr was quite clear about this.

The revisionist nonsense that “Arabs are Semites too” totally disregards the origin, meaning, and intent of the term.

Period.

Which is why I think we should avoid the term “anti-Semite” and just go back to Jew Hater.

166 seekeroftruth  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:18:26am

re: #157 nyc redneck

rush now talking abt. how it will be the elderly who get shafted in O’s health care plan.
he also said calls are over 100 to 1 against the prok bill.
way too much lard. and the public knows it.

Absolutely chilling what is in that damn spending bill. “Seniors need to become accepting of their condition ” rather than get health treatment. OMG!

167 Last Mohican  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:18:34am

re: #143 Alouette

Arabs are Semites, therefore, anyone who expresses negative opinions of Arabs or Muslims is “anti-Semitic.”

Strictly speaking, that’s true, right?

It’s also true that Jewish Israelis are Palestinians, as are Jordanian Arabs, because all of these people live in Palestine.

Me, I’m willing to accept that, by convention, “anti-semitic” refers to hatred of Jewish people, and “Palestinian” refers to an Arab living in Palestine who is not a citizen of any state.

168 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:19:05am

re: #157 nyc redneck

rush now talking abt. how it will be the elderly who get shafted in O’s health care plan.
he also said calls are over 100 to 1 against the prok bill.
way too much lard. and the public knows it.

Calls to who? And why does it matter. The Senate and House are al set to pass this, after working out a few more details.

Our voice didn’t matter for the TARP money and it’s not mattering now. Bush did it to us i with TARP, and Obambi is doing it to us with the stimulus.

Same shit, different president.

169 opnion  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:19:13am

re: #149 tfc3rid

Obama is proving to be all that we thought he was and more…

He is & not as bright as advertised. What value is ther in talking on Limbaugh & Hannity? It empowers them & makes Obama look like a petulat child.

170 looking closely  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:19:24am

re: #94 Charles

I think it’s worse than that. Criminalizing speech doesn’t change the hatred that causes the speech. Instead, it acts as a sort of evolutionary pressure (connections!) and forces the haters to hide their agenda and work undercover to achieve their goals. Rather than wiping out hatred, it ends up making it much worse, by making the haters smarter.

I don’t think you can make the haters any “smarter” by banning what they say (and its wrong to assume that ipso facto racists aren’t smart…some of them are quite clever) though I do agree that banning hate speech just drives them underground.

Its sort of an ostrich policy…if I can’t see something it isn’t there. Banning the APPEARANCE of things is an approach to problems that inevitably turns out to be bad policy.

In general, sunlight is the best disinfectant. The best remedy to bad speech is more speech.

171 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:19:38am
172 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:20:19am

Europe has yet to deal with its history.

Instead, it concentrates on reminding Americans of ours while suborning the Arabist rewrite of Middle Eastern history.

173 tfc3rid  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:20:24am

re: #158 Racer X

Our worst nightmare.

You know it… And he will make damn sure it really hurts…

174 jwb7605  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:20:26am

re: #151 kynna

Another effect is to spread the criminalization outward so that eventually dissent is outlawed because it can be construed as ‘hate’. Our recent presidential campaign is a great example of how ‘hate’ can be applied to criticism, thereby changing the argument and vilifying the dissenter. Make it a law and you’ve got people in prison for saying Barak Obama is a walking disaster in foreign policy.

Criticizing Obama during the presidential campaign was racist.
It is now unpatriotic.

175 Kragar  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:20:39am

ISRAEL: Many Candidates, No Leaders

Today, to all intents and purposes, there is no left. Among Jewish Israelis, the war on Hamas in Gaza won nigh-universal backing; the concept of promoting a ‘peace policy’ has been relegated to almost taboo status - even by avowedly pro-peace parties like Meretz.

Its election slogan is soul-numbing - ‘no compromise’, even if the Meretz intention was not directed towards possible peace plans, but was meant to signal a stand against the rampages of the hard nationalist sentiment which has dominated the brief election campaign.

Commented Palestinian Authority Prime Minister Salman Fayyad, “Regrettably, none of the major candidates to lead Israel have presented anything remotely hopeful on which a peace process might be pursued.”

There has been no Obama effect, no Obama ripples on the Israeli electorate. Hope and anticipation are nowhere; instead, fear and the ‘need to stand firm’ are the watchwords on voters’ lips. And, are likely to be reflected in an anticipated further swing to the right that has characterised the three previous Israeli elections since the 2000 outbreak of the Palestinian Intifadah uprising.

176 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:20:54am
177 gmsc  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:20:55am

re: #93 NYCHardhat

Great movie by the way.

While on break from my job over the weekend, I overheard some teens talking about Gran Torino and their plans to see it. They’d apparently all heard how cool it was, and couldn’t wait to go see it.

Later that same day, that same group of teens came to the store at which I work, and they were being disruptive, including interfering with me as I’m trying to talk to customers.

I turned to them and said, “Leave now.” One of them replied, “and if we don’t?” First, I called security. Then, I looked directly at them and told them the ending to Gran Torino.

Judging by the look on their faces, they were 50% puzzled as to how I knew they were going to that movie, and 50% bummed that I’d told them the ending.

178 Racer X  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:20:56am

re: #166 seekeroftruth

Absolutely chilling what is in that damn spending bill. “Seniors need to become accepting of their condition ” rather than get health treatment. OMG!

I’m listening to that and just shaking my head. This is bad.

179 subsailor68  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:21:00am

re: #108 Honorary Yooper

OT. I found Obama’s speach published online. It may be worth taking it apart line by line.

Remarks of President Barack Obama

One last quote from these remarks of his:

The plan also calls for immediate tax relief for 95 percent of American workers.

If he’s talking about those who do not pay federal income tax (zero tax or qualifying for the EITC), what he’s actually proposing is income redistribution.

180 rightside  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:21:10am

Wow, scary stuff. Rush is talking about the liberal agenda snuck inside the porkulus bill, and what impact it will have on seasoned citizens.

181 tfc3rid  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:21:27am

re: #169 opnion

He is & not as bright as advertised. What value is ther in talking on Limbaugh & Hannity? It empowers them & makes Obama look like a petulat child.

It gives Obama the impetus to order balance in talk radio.

182 LGoPs  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:21:27am

I share the concern over the dilemma of protecting free speech even to the extent of protecting bigoted rants. And I would err on the side of protecting free speech, no matter how hateful.
However, I do think that it would be appropriate to sanction/punish the bastard by kicking him out of his diplomatic position. It would seem that giving vent to Tourette’s style rants is not a desired trait in a diplomat……..

183 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:21:56am

re: #94 Charles

I don’t think it makes them smarter one way or the other. This guy is cut from the top drawer of British society. Over time speech regulation weakens societies by preventing discussion of items that otherwise would come into the marketplace of ideas. Laws like this have crippled Europe’s ability to confront the Islamicization of the continent. But they also do actually prevent the growth of fascists groups. It really is a mixed bag.

184 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:22:10am
185 nyc redneck  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:22:13am

re: #166 seekeroftruth

Absolutely chilling what is in that damn spending bill. “Seniors need to become accepting of their condition ” rather than get health treatment. OMG!

did you hear the part that seniors in britain had to go blind in one eye before they got treatment for glaucoma in the other eye.
that shite is coming here. this kind of shite is in the pork bill.
health care czar to make the call of who get’s what.
citizens are finding out. this is why O is running around trying to con people.

186 baconeatingkaffir  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:22:39am

There’s nothing like a european “middle eastern expert” to let everyone know how he thinks. If only he had run the exercise bike more than he did his mouth! Europe is sinking into a very very dark age. I can’t decide which is more shocking… people reporting him to the police for this (I’d say that in alot of places this would get you an ass kicking instead of the police being called) or the fact that a “middle eastern expert” could spew such garbage.

187 doppelganglander  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:22:45am

re: #147 ayatollah ghilmeini

Europe tries to deal with it by banning free expression which does not solve the problem.

Precisely. This sort of thing should be dealt with through social pressure, ostracism, and strong verbal reactions from those who oppose repellent opinions like Laxton’s. The problem is, public opinion in Europe does not condemn Laxton and his ilk. Legislating morality never works, because by the time you feel the need to legislate it, public morality has already sunk the the point where social pressure is no longer enough to enforce it. Trying to enforce by law something that isn’t supported by the majority is futile.

188 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:23:09am

re: #120 justiceforall

Charles, I share your confusion. What this guy said was horrible, but can you really have a true democracy without freedom of speech?

Wow! The second time you’ve managed to make a comment that didn’t get dinged down. You’re on a roll.

189 Achilles Tang  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:23:09am

Sounds like a classic apologetic’s stance from someone very familiar with the Middle East and Muslims and who knows very well that there is no use blaming or otherwise expecting one side to change, so therefore it has to be the other side’s fault.

190 Racer X  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:23:23am

re: #184 MandyManners

Very punny.

191 seekeroftruth  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:24:19am

re: #185 nyc redneck

did you hear the part that seniors in britain had to go blind in one eye before they got treatment for glaucoma in the other eye.
that shite is coming here. this kind of shite is in the pork bill.
health care czar to make the call of who get’s what.
citizens are finding out. this is why O is running around trying to con people.

Yes I did - and I am freaking out. And there will be penalities on any doctor that does not follow what the government decides the healthcare must be….

192 tfc3rid  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:24:28am

re: #185 nyc redneck

It’s why O-Fraud is running around to places with ‘friendly’ audiences, etc. Use their pain as a means of his getting the message out…

Prepare for it… He’s got his address tonight, 8 PM… Will he be sobered and angry?

193 LGoPs  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:24:36am

re: #184 MandyManners

Rowan, eh? Well, I hope he’ll be a Mr. (Has)Bean soon.

Is there a pun thread sprouting here…..?

194 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:24:47am

re: #184 MandyManners

Rowan, eh? Well, I hope he’ll be a Mr. (Has)Bean soon.

OT, but my kids were never quite sure what to do with Sean Bean.

195 abaleh  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:25:09am

re: #152 Athos

The 1st Amendment, which provides free speech protections, still includes some restrictions around unlimited free speech. ‘Fighting Words’ or the use of speech which threatens the public safety (yelling Fire in a crowded theater when no such threat exists) are excluded from free speech protections.

Ultimately, it is a common sense thing - which is probably why the fascists feel the need to have to legislate around common sense.

Clearly, this pinhead needs to lose his job. Any of those at the gym and offended by his outburst should feel free to sue him for assault. But beyond that, the only other thing this nimrod needs to have to worry about is if someone will kick his ass for his use of ‘fighting words’. Jail time isn’t warranted. It will solve nothing. We need to see these bigots in the light of day so they can be confronted and discredited.

It is a tricky distinction, between hate speech and incitement to hatred. That is why a healthy Judicial system is necessary.

196 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:25:11am

re: #183 Ayatollah Ghilmeini

I don’t think it makes them smarter one way or the other. This guy is cut from the top drawer of British society. Over time speech regulation weakens societies by preventing discussion of items that otherwise would come into the marketplace of ideas. Laws like this have crippled Europe’s ability to confront the Islamicization of the continent. But they also do actually prevent the growth of fascists groups. It really is a mixed bag.

I disagree - I think there’s lots of evidence that criminalizing speech forces hate groups to get smarter about hiding their hatred. This is the reason why groups like the BNP and the Vlaams Belang, for example, are now trying to cast themselves as friends of Israel. They’ve learned that in Europe, expressing their true beliefs will get them banned, jailed, and fined. So they’ve responded by getting more deceptive, and more clever about hiding their intentions and beliefs.

197 subsailor68  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:25:29am

re: #191 seekeroftruth

Yes I did - and I am freaking out. And there will be penalities on any doctor that does not follow what the government decides the healthcare must be….

And IMHO that will lead to fewer doctors, thus compounding the problem.

198 gmsc  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:25:48am

OT: At least 0bama didn’t try to enter Marine One through the window. However, apparently entering through the door wasn’t much better:

Youtube Video

199 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:25:49am
200 coloradobuff  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:25:53am

re: #162 mikalm

“Free speech makes it easier to spot the idiots.” — MikalM

Exactly! One of the great benefits of the First Amendment, in my view.

201 Opinionated  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:25:56am

re: #99 realwest

A cursory look seems to show that Canada was some kind of civil proceeding, different then a criminal case where one can be arrested and imprisoned upon conviction.

202 tfc3rid  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:26:24am

A-Rod admitting in an interview with Gammons that did roids in 2001, 2002 and 2003… Of course he doesn’t say he did it as a Yankee…

203 soxfan4life  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:26:28am

re: #192 tfc3rid

It’s why O-Fraud is running around to places with ‘friendly’ audiences, etc. Use their pain as a means of his getting the message out…

Prepare for it… He’s got his address tonight, 8 PM… Will he be sobered and angry?

Hopefully he’ll be defeated and down trodden. I try not to let things consume me, but I hate him and his supporters. Smarmy bastards.

204 JohnnyReb  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:27:03am

re: #191 seekeroftruth

Yes I did - and I am freaking out. And there will be penalities on any doctor that does not follow what the government decides the healthcare must be….

I suspect that alot of elderly Veterans will not tolerate too much of that nonsense. A bunch of the older guys that have to go through the VA hospital system for treatment do not have anything to lose.

205 Last Mohican  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:27:10am

re: #151 kynna

Another effect is to spread the criminalization outward so that eventually dissent is outlawed because it can be construed as ‘hate’. Our recent presidential campaign is a great example of how ‘hate’ can be applied to criticism, thereby changing the argument and vilifying the dissenter. Make it a law and you’ve got people in prison for saying Barak Obama is a walking disaster in foreign policy.

Good point. When saying certain things becomes illegal, the definition of which things are illegal to say is highly subject to widening by whoever happens to control the courts. We have already seen any criticism of Obama’s positions, values, or actions being quickly dismissed as “racist,” and it’s not much of a leap to make criticizing him illegal.

It’s not really the right comparison, but there were those people who were arrested for hanging Obama in effigy, whereas the people who were hanging Bush in effigy were simultaneously being congratulated and celebrated for their feisty progressiveness.

206 yma o hyd  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:27:16am

re: #185 nyc redneck

did you hear the part that seniors in britain had to go blind in one eye before they got treatment for glaucoma in the other eye.
that shite is coming here. this kind of shite is in the pork bill.
health care czar to make the call of who get’s what.
citizens are finding out. this is why O is running around trying to con people.

Yep - just one correction: glaucoma is treated before anybody goes blind, the mis-treatment you’re alluding to is that for age-related macular degeneration - and yes, its true: no treatment until one eye is gone.

Same for Alzheimers: doctors are now encouraged to give an early diagnosis - trouble is, you’re only going to get the medication which might give you another year or so of nearly normal life before total onset, when there is already total onset …

207 Cosmo  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:27:36am

Good point, Charles. He in no way should go to jail for this. He should be relieved of his post, ostracized and forced to pick dead rats off the tracks of the Underground for a living. But in no way should he be in jail for this.

I wonder when they’ll start jailing Imams and their followers who rail against Christianity?

/holding breath

208 quickjustice  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:28:10am

As I’ve said in an earlier thread, the British Foreign Office has been anti-semitic since before the First World War. The adjective used is “Arabist”. Lawrence of Arabia also was an “Arabist” obsessed with Muslim and Arab language and culture.

209 Racer X  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:28:12am

re: #196 Charles

What about hate speech that inspires others to commit violence?

i.e. Imams spouting “Kill the jews! Kill the infidels!”

Shouldn’t there be repercussions for that speech?

210 Last Mohican  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:28:22am

re: #179 subsailor68

One last quote from these remarks of his:

The plan also calls for immediate tax relief for 95 percent of American workers.

If he’s talking about those who do not pay federal income tax (zero tax or qualifying for the EITC), what he’s actually proposing is income redistribution.

That is, indeed, what he is talking about.

211 seekeroftruth  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:28:24am

re: #197 subsailor68

And IMHO that will lead to fewer doctors, thus compounding the problem.

I agree. I believe that is a problem that England already has.
So Obama is his quest to destroy the country is going to destroy our healthcare as well. And the fools - Specter, Collins and Snowe - are blindly following the Piped Piper Obama.

212 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:28:25am

re: #203 soxfan4life

Hopefully he’ll be defeated and down trodden.

So soon? Usually we don’t see that until the second term.

/Is this a sign that there will be just one?

213 J.D.  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:28:30am

re: #205 Last Mohican

feisty progressiveness


heh

214 godfrey  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:28:36am

Has the world always been this tightly wound and brittle?

I’m not excusing anything — far from it — just observing that everyone lately, on every issue, seems to be on an edge, teetering.

215 Opinionated  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:28:46am

I believe I know one thing for certain. If he is forced out of his job, he will be replaced by another anti Semite from the Foreign Office, just one who keeps his opinions about Jews more discreet.

216 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:28:51am
217 yma o hyd  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:29:08am

re: #194 unreconstructed rebel

OT, but my kids were never quite sure what to do with Sean Bean.

Really?

Awww … they must still be very young!

:-)

218 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:29:10am
219 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:29:10am

re: #191 seekeroftruth

Yes I did - and I am freaking out. And there will be penalities on any doctor that does not follow what the government decides the healthcare must be….

If that comes to fruition, the sad irony will likely be that only the rich will get good health care. Everyone else will have to settle for what the government offers/allows. And eventually with government controls on the price of procedures, doctors will be in short supply making good health care even more difficult to get.

220 subsailor68  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:29:29am

re: #184 MandyManners

Rowan, eh? Well, I hope he’ll be a Mr. (Has)Bean soon.

LOL! Along those lines, as President Obama totals up the cost of the stimulus package, would he be known as Blackadder?

221 soxfan4life  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:30:00am

re: #212 unreconstructed rebel

So soon? Usually we don’t see that until the second term.

/Is this a sign that there will be just one?


I hope so. it would be so much sweeter if he were forced to step down early and Joe Plugs was left as an ineffective stooge for 3 years.

222 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:30:21am

re: #210 Last Mohican

That is, indeed, what he is HAS BEEN talking about SINCE HE STARTED RUNNING FOR PRES>.

but just NOW the majority of Americans are staring to understand!

223 Opinionated  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:30:22am

re: #208 quickjustice

As I’ve said in an earlier thread, the British Foreign Office has been anti-semitic since before the First World War. The adjective used is “Arabist”. Lawrence of Arabia also was an “Arabist” obsessed with Muslim and Arab language and culture.

How many people do you think know that in Israel’s war of Independence Israel fought Arab armies led by British officers who were on active British service?

224 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:30:24am

re: #209 Racer X

What about hate speech that inspires others to commit violence? i.e. Imams spouting “Kill the jews! Kill the infidels!”
Shouldn’t there be repercussions for that speech?

No, it’s the same as here in the US. A black American cannot be racist. Can’t you understand this simple fact of nature?
/

225 Dianna  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:30:35am

re: #216 buzzsawmonkey

And native boys.

Are you sure? As I recall, Lawrence’s taste was (ah, is there a discreet way to put this?) not being the active party?

226 doppelganglander  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:30:40am

re: #169 opnion

He is not as bright as advertised. What value is there in taking on Limbaugh and Hannity? It empowers them & makes Obama look like a petulant child.

Obie and Company think conservatives actually look to Rush and Sean as leaders, not simply as entertainers and commentators. They honestly believe Rush runs the Republican Party, so they think undermining him is an effective tactic to damage the party. They can go on thinking that, for all I care.

227 yma o hyd  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:30:44am

re: #196 Charles

I disagree - I think there’s lots of evidence that criminalizing speech forces hate groups to get smarter about hiding their hatred. This is the reason why groups like the BNP and the Vlaams Belang, for example, are now trying to cast themselves as friends of Israel. They’ve learned that in Europe, expressing their true beliefs will get them banned, jailed, and fined. So they’ve responded by getting more deceptive, and more clever about hiding their intentions and beliefs.

Agree.
its quite evident, on this side of the Big Pond.

228 godfrey  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:30:53am

re: #216 buzzsawmonkey

It’s a fascination with power and the pleasure of its exertion. Cf. Delacroix, The Death of Sardanapalus.

229 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:31:00am
230 karmic_inquisitor  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:31:32am

OT: Remember how Obama was going to bring competent, non-ideoligical problem solvers to Washington and end the partisanship there?

Well mail this story to anyone who is still drinking that Kool Aide.

washingtontimes.com

Obama has hired a person into the White House Counsel’s office who has absolutely no legal training but whose short career has been spent digging up dirt on political opponents.

CHANGE!

231 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:31:46am
232 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:31:57am

re: #225 Dianna

Are you sure? As I recall, Lawrence’s taste was (ah, is there a discreet way to put this?) not being the active party?

You mean he was a bottom?

233 Dianna  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:32:00am

re: #219 eschew_obfuscation

In other words, “Sorry, Granny.” Or, even more, the handicapped will definitely suffer.

234 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:32:00am

Work calls. BBL.

235 seekeroftruth  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:32:11am

re: #204 JohnnyReb

I suspect that alot of elderly Veterans will not tolerate too much of that nonsense. A bunch of the older guys that have to go through the VA hospital system for treatment do not have anything to lose.

I hope so. And I do suspect that there also are a lot of people who will go nuts when they find out that they can not health care for an elderly relative. “Seniors need to become accepting of their condition “……..

236 fish  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:32:24am

re: #115 Walter L. Newton

“plan will save or create three to four million jobs”

I never heard the “save” part before, just the create. Is he moving the target already?

So by this definition, if we end up with 3-4 million people still working, his plan worked!

237 nyc redneck  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:32:46am

re: #192 tfc3rid

It’s why O-Fraud is running around to places with ‘friendly’ audiences, etc. Use their pain as a means of his getting the message out…

Prepare for it… He’s got his address tonight, 8 PM… Will he be sobered and angry?

it is so insidious that he goes to places where people are desperate and tries to take advantage of their suffering. promising to take care of them.
the pork bill is abt. strengthening power for the dems.
the pork is for them.
and if this bill passes, anything that trickles down to the people who need it, won’t even happen until 2010.
why does this shite have to be passed now. (so no one has time to look at what he is doing ?)
he told the people in indiana that if it isn’t passed, we would slip into a terrible decline that we would never get out of.
what an ass.

238 soxfan4life  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:33:02am

re: #215 Opinionated

I believe I know one thing for certain. If he is forced out of his job, he will be replaced by another anti Semite from the Foreign Office, just one who keeps his opinions about Jews more discreet.


Reminds me of the South Park episode with the priest taking the boys on a camping trip. When the priest brings up the sex abuse problem the bishops’ response is we have to shut those boys up. Same thinking there. Wonder if those lefties still want to be more like Europe.

239 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:33:12am
240 yma o hyd  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:33:19am

re: #223 Opinionated

How many people do you think know that in Israel’s war of Independence Israel fought Arab armies led by British officers who were on active British service?

Not many people know that, alas …

241 Opinionated  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:33:47am

Obama has several advisers who should be warned away from the gym in case exercise releases their feelings about Jews and Israel.

242 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:33:51am

re: #236 fish

So by this definition, if we end up with 3-4 million people still working, his plan worked!

I guess, unless someone keeps records on how many jobs were not lost because they were, well, not lost. (My head hurts).

243 Dianna  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:34:15am

re: #231 buzzsawmonkey

That does not mean he was not avid for Arab partners.

That, I don’t really know too much about.

Lawrence was a really odd soul.

244 soxfan4life  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:34:30am

re: #241 Opinionated

Obama has several advisers who should be warned away from the gym in case exercise releases their feelings about Jews and Israel.


Or the USA

245 tfc3rid  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:34:34am

re: #237 nyc redneck

Typical scare tactics… And you know what, it will work…

246 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:34:34am

re: #214 godfrey

Has the world always been this tightly wound and brittle?

I’m not excusing anything — far from it — just observing that everyone lately, on every issue, seems to be on an edge, teetering.

PC run amock. When I was growing up as a 3/4 Italian/ 1/4 Irish kid in my neighborhodd, I was called a greaseball/ guinea// wop// potato eater// mick// and there was nothing wrong with it, because I WAS a greaseball/ guinea// wop// potato eater// mick// (amongst many other things). NOW, there are no garbagemen, they are “Waste Management Professionals”. There are no janitors, they are “Facilities Engineers”.

247 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:34:37am
248 doppelganglander  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:34:43am

re: #206 yma o hyd

Yep - just one correction: glaucoma is treated before anybody goes blind, the mis-treatment you’re alluding to is that for age-related macular degeneration - and yes, its true: no treatment until one eye is gone.

Same for Alzheimers: doctors are now encouraged to give an early diagnosis - trouble is, you’re only going to get the medication which might give you another year or so of nearly normal life before total onset, when there is already total onset …

There is something seriously wrong with a society that treats its elderly that way.

249 Dianna  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:34:54am

re: #232 Walter L. Newton

As I understood, yes.

250 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:34:55am

OT: Anyone here read A Fire upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge? If so, would they recommend it?

251 quickjustice  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:34:59am

I’ll fully in favor of free speech for the haters. That way we can identify them fast! (I’ll also in favor of free speech AGAINST the haters!)

252 JohnnyReb  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:35:34am

re: #235 seekeroftruth

I hope so. And I do suspect that there also are a lot of people who will go nuts when they find out that they can not health care for an elderly relative. “Seniors need to become accepting of their condition “……..

That last part is the most scary part. Maybe I need to go and get my knee replacements before I hit 60. Otherwise I might just get told that it would be a waste of money fixing mine in 8 years.

253 coloradobuff  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:35:48am

re: #196 Charles

I disagree - I think there’s lots of evidence that criminalizing speech forces hate groups to get smarter about hiding their hatred. This is the reason why groups like the BNP and the Vlaams Belang, for example, are now trying to cast themselves as friends of Israel. They’ve learned that in Europe, expressing their true beliefs will get them banned, jailed, and fined. So they’ve responded by getting more deceptive, and more clever about hiding their intentions and beliefs.

I concur. Although I’m sure hate speech legislation is well-intentioned, it causes too many problems. Forcing someone (anyone!) to hide their true beliefs and motives is a big one. For another, someone has to decide what is OK to say and what’s not. Beyond libel, slander, and obcenity laws, I don’t think I want someone else telling me (or some racist, even) what to say.

254 theheat  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:35:53am

I find the UK’s arbitrarily applied hate speech laws worrisome. While this guy is a dick, for sure, unless he’s rabble-rousing for some real harm to people, he’s just another asshole with a hateful opinion.

Odd, that so much hate speech goes on in various religious institutions, and the hate speech police are rarely on the clock. IMHO, this is a bullshit call. Having the police dictate your opinions is bullshit, period.

The UK is doing its best to neuter everyone. They won’t be happy until everyone has round-tipped scissors and plastic butter knives, and life is one big interfaith dialog filled with puppies and unicorns.

Fuck that, I’m a Yank at heart. Always will be.

255 subsailor68  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:35:55am

re: #230 karmic_inquisitor

OT: Remember how Obama was going to bring competent, non-ideoligical problem solvers to Washington and end the partisanship there?

Well mail this story to anyone who is still drinking that Kool Aide.

[Link: www.washingtontimes.com…]

Obama has hired a person into the White House Counsel’s office who has absolutely no legal training but whose short career has been spent digging up dirt on political opponents.

CHANGE!

Phew, it’s okay. In researching Shauna Daly, I found this picture of her:

Shauna Daly

256 baconeatingkaffir  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:36:23am

re: #61 Alouette

Muslim women aren’t allowed to marry infidels, only Muslim men are.

I don’t know. My wife is Turkish. She’s not a good muslim though. She likes her pork and her liquor from time to time. I’ve never seen her starving herself at Ramadan. I would assume that it depends on how strong the love is and how tolerant the families are.

257 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:36:44am

OT - winds have been an almost constant 40 miles per hour here today in Golden. I like the sound, but it’s to damn warm for Feb. Fifty degrees.

258 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:36:57am

re: #59 Ben Hur

Why is it that HE was arrested and not the Jihadis running around London calling for the extermination of Jews?

Because the latter is just a manifestation of their richly diverse cultural traditions, silly.

259 Opinionated  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:37:10am

re: #240 yma o hyd

Not many people know that, alas …

A huge percentage of people - who think they are versed in the subject- would fail a basic test on the history of the Mideast and the Arab/Israeli conflict.

260 Dianna  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:37:50am

re: #250 Creeping Eruption

OT: Anyone here read A Fire upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge? If so, would they recommend it?

I enjoyed it.

You can get it in paper, and it’s worth it.

261 Baboon Cheeks  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:37:56am

I’m against hate speech, but there is an issue of incitement to violence here as well:

It is alleged he also said Israeli soldiers should be ‘wiped off the face of the earth’.

So, basically, fuck ‘im.

262 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:38:01am

re: #249 Dianna

As I understood, yes.

I’m glad you said it instead of me… wait… oops, I said it first.

263 tfc3rid  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:38:18am

Here’s a question… Is there anything in the Stimulus bill that restricts speech or anything?

No one has really read this whole thing… Is anyone sure there aren’t other nasty little ‘pet projects’ out in this thing?

264 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:38:21am
265 Carlos Dangler  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:38:27am

re: #225 Dianna

Are you sure? As I recall, Lawrence’s taste was (ah, is there a discreet way to put this?) not being the active party?

So ol’ Lawrence preferred playing catcher, rather than pitcher?

;-P

266 Athos  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:38:27am

re: #242 Walter L. Newton

I guess, unless someone keeps records on how many jobs were not lost because they were, well, not lost. (My head hurts).

That’s one of the biggest frauds about his whole case towards the Porkulous Bill - they are pulling these job numbers out of thin air and none of the claims can or ever be substantiated. They can either claim victory when one does not exist or they can blame the futher collapse on the fact that the meddling and ‘bipartisanship’ of the Republicans corrupted the Bill leading to its failure. The latter will be followed by an even further left bill justified by the fact that because the first one wasn’t ‘pure’ enough, it was destined to fail.

The saddest part is that 30-35% of the electorate will believe this line of crap - despite the proof that all of these socialistic ideals fail when faced with real world conditions.

267 Racer X  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:38:32am

re: #224 Walter L. Newton

I get your point. I’m trying to figure out what the boundaries are for speech. Lots of people preach hatred. OK - that is your right. It is also my right to expose you for it, and ridicule you for it. But when hate speech begins to inspire others to take violent action where does culpability lie?

268 opnion  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:38:33am

re: #172 karmic_inquisitor

Europe has yet to deal with its history.

Instead, it concentrates on reminding Americans of ours while suborning the Arabist rewrite of Middle Eastern history.

Europeans seem anxious to point out our sordid slavery past.
If you look at France & England, their background in slavery is every bit as bad. The difference is that their slaves were not housed on their soil, but in the New World. Consequently they do not have an indigenous population to remind them.

269 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:38:36am

re: #255 subsailor68

Phew, it’s okay. In researching Shauna Daly, I found this picture of her:

Shauna Daly

Rove has an alter-ego? NTTAWWT

270 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:38:44am
Middle East expert Rowan Laxton, 47, was watching TV reports of the Israeli attack on Gaza as he used an exercise bike in a gym

Presumably this was an Exercise Cycle of Violence®.

271 Rancher  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:39:04am
I’m not sure which is more disgusting — this antisemitic rant by a British diplomat, or the fact that in Britain you can be imprisoned for seven years because you said some words.


How soon before saying F—- Obama gets one arrested? Political discourse is what is dividing Red against Blue and is therefore ripe to be labeled “hate speech”. Don’t look for the First Amendment to protect us from this, it didn’t protect us from McCain Feingold.

272 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:39:17am

re: #260 Dianna

I enjoyed it.

You can get it in paper, and it’s worth it.

as opposed to getting it in plastic !?!?!?!

//j/k

273 Boxy_brown  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:39:25am

The world has just lost it’s mind. This country has elected a dangerous incompetent with a totalitarian streak a mile wide. People are lined up to mortgage their futures and surrender their freedoms. The perpetual canary in the coal mine; the Jews are being vilified by the supposed elites, we are doing everything we can to bankrupt ourselves and destroy our currency… this is what the Weimar Republic must have felt like. Haven’t read the above but if someone has come to the same conclusion I wouldn’t be surprised.

274 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:39:38am

re: #220 subsailor68

LOL! Along those lines, as President Obama totals up the cost of the stimulus package, would he be known as Blackadder?

Unfortunately, his cunning plans are more similar to those dreamed up by Baldrick.

275 Shug  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:40:18am
The maximum penalty for inciting religious hatred is a seven-year prison term or a fine or both.

Unless you are a filthy 7th century throwback carrying a Sign in Central London Saying BEHEAD THOSE WHO DRAW CARTOONS OF THE PROPHET

276 Cognito  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:40:22am

It’s ridiculous, this notion that the guy deserves jail time for what he said.

But once you subscribe to that way of thinking — if it has to happen — I’m glad it happened to someone who was so clearly a diplomatic shyster.

277 subsailor68  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:40:28am

re: #269 CyanSnowHawk

Rove has an alter-ego? NTTAWWT

Heh, heh. I just loved the mental image of this administration thinking they’re pulling a fast one to get dirt on Republicans, only to find they’ve ended up with Karl Rove in disguise.

:-)

278 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:40:31am
279 yma o hyd  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:40:45am

re: #248 doppelganglander

There is something seriously wrong with a society that treats its elderly that way.

Indeed there is. It is in fact far worse, because with a state health service comes a bureaucracy, who takes over decisions as to where resources are being spent.
And you can certainly guess where they are not spent - on the care of the elderly.
Now our ‘Health Service’ has been going for 60 years, always udnerfunded, and more and more a political play ball, more and more given to vast bureaucracies ratehr than care for the sick.
You won’t be getting there as fast because you’re starting from a much higher level, and not from the stoical days of post-war Britain.

280 Dianna  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:40:56am

re: #272 sattv4u2

as opposed to getting it in plastic !?!?!?!

//j/k

Versus hard back.

281 jcm  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:41:00am

re: #263 tfc3rid

Here’s a question… Is there anything in the Stimulus bill that restricts speech or anything?

No one has really read this whole thing… Is anyone sure there aren’t other nasty little ‘pet projects’ out in this thing?

Did a quick search of the bill. Only thing that I find for FCC is the WiFi infrastructure section.

282 Achilles Tang  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:41:05am

re: #229 Iron Fist

Agreed in principle, but my point is simply that these kind of people, being bureaucrats who think they can have influence, will tend to blame those who they think sometimes listen. They don’t blame those who they know don’t listen.

I think he’s possibly actually more anti Arab than Israel, because he thinks the Arabs are too dumb and fanatical to expect anything much from. It’s the same type who think civilized counties defense against attack should be “proportional”.

283 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:41:12am

re: #259 Opinionated

A huge percentage of people - who think they are versed in the subject- would fail a basic test on the history of the Mideast and the Arab/Israeli conflict.

I have spoken to putatively well-educated people, who believed that the Six Day War (or “Seven” Day War, in some cases) was launched by surprise by Israel on a peaceful, unsuspecting, sovereign nation-state called “Palestine”, in order to take their land away.

284 seekeroftruth  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:41:19am

re: #252 JohnnyReb

That last part is the most scary part. Maybe I need to go and get my knee replacements before I hit 60. Otherwise I might just get told that it would be a waste of money fixing mine in 8 years.

It is scary. I couldn’t believe what I was hearing. Rush will be linking to this part of the stimulus bill later on today.

285 Ayatollah Ghilmeini  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:41:24am

re: #196 Charles

It is odd how the far left and far right enemies of Israel claim they are friends, it’s what Carter and Bill Moyers say (Moyers saying so today in a letter in today’s WSJ) and yes, Vlaams and BNP. I am not so sure it is to avoid the laws as to lull potential victims into complacency. I do know if I lived in Antwerp, if I were Muslim I have a lot more to fear initially from the Vlaams Blok than the Jews. I know damning with feint praise…..

But the fact is the PC hate speech laws do slow these folks down and makes them spend their lives looking back over their shoulders. Yes is insulates the rulers of Europe from the political consequences of the new Europe they are “building.” Despite these laws, the and maybe because of them, the Beast is on the rise. Certainly the Islamist benefit from their not being evenly enforced or half the Islamic clerics of Europe would be serving time Laxton.

286 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:42:10am

re: #280 Dianna

Versus hard back.

a nice hot bath and a massage would relieve that!

287 subsailor68  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:42:10am

re: #274 Kosh’s Shadow

Unfortunately, his cunning plans are more similar to those dreamed up by Baldrick.

LOL! Imagine Baldrick as press secretary.

Oops. Too late.

;-)

288 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:42:40am
289 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:43:01am

re: #261 Jimmah

I’m against hate speech, but there is an issue of incitement to violence here as well:


So, basically, fuck ‘im.

Even that…. unless he was standing in front of a torch-waving crowd, pointing them toward a synagoge, he should still be free to express his loathsome views.

And he should also be banned from any employment with the British government.

290 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:43:04am
291 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:43:07am

re: #265 talon_262

So ol’ Lawrence preferred playing catcher, rather than pitcher?

;-P

No wonder he understood the …

/Perhaps I better not.

292 Dianna  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:43:15am

re: #286 sattv4u2

a nice hot bath and a massage would relieve that!

I am so there!

293 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:43:23am

re: #267 Racer X

I get your point. I’m trying to figure out what the boundaries are for speech. Lots of people preach hatred. OK - that is your right. It is also my right to expose you for it, and ridicule you for it. But when hate speech begins to inspire others to take violent action where does culpability lie?

It would be like someone saying “go kill all ducks.” That’s something that inspires a criminal act.

Someone saying “fuck all parrots” is not breaking any law, because they are not suggest something that would break a law, although I know a number of parrots who would be bothered by this.

294 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:43:28am

“Oh, I say, Lawrence, dear chap, riding side-saddle today, are we, what what?”

295 jwb7605  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:44:03am

re: #288 buzzsawmonkey

BTW, heard that the current cover headline on one of the major newsweeklies—Time or Newsweek—is “We Are All Socialists Now.”

True?

I hope it is.
Everybody seems to be in denial, so a wakeup headline might be useful.

296 Baboon Cheeks  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:44:11am

re: #276 Cognito

It’s ridiculous, this notion that the guy deserves jail time for what he said.

Incitement to violence isn’t covered by free speech.

It is alleged he also said Israeli soldiers should be ‘wiped off the face of the earth’.

297 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:44:19am
298 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:44:29am

Trying to stifle hate by stifling speech just doesn’t work. But I have to wonder if the real motivation behind these laws is fear. Fear that if the euros allowed the haters to speak freely that the hate would get out of hand because they fear it would appeal to too many since the fundamental problem is europe has not dealt with the underlying issues that spark the hate in the first place. Europe obviously has issues that the public is beginning to get angry about. Perhaps the authorities fear the scapegoating hatred would just be too easy to slip back into, and they see restricting speech as a mechanism to control it.

It’s not right, but I wonder if that’s a motivation.

299 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:44:40am

re: #289 Occasional Reader

toward a synagoge,

[sigh]

300 Athos  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:44:48am

re: #273 Boxy_brown

In many ways we are repeating the same mistakes today that were made in the 1930’s. Many seem to refuse to want to learn from history….of course, that is assuming they even know history. Given the state of education in High School and the University systems today, many do not know enough about history to learn from it.

301 Rednek  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:45:04am

Remember how the the Bush administration was so anti-science?

Say It Ain’t So: Science, Energy on Stimulus Chopping Block

302 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:45:08am

re: #259 Opinionated

A huge percentage of people - who think they are versed in the subject- would fail a basic test on the history of the Mideast and the Arab/Israeli conflict.

Especially reporters.
And that is part of the reason. Reading the MSM, you’d think that Israel was formed out of an independent Arab country called Palestine, and they ejected all the Arabs into the West Bank and Gaza, not that the Arabs attacked the nascent Israel formed from about 24% of the British mandate of “Palestine”.

303 LGoPs  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:45:35am

re: #289 Occasional Reader

Even that…. unless he was standing in front of a torch-waving crowd, pointing them toward a synagoge, he should still be free to express his loathsome views.

And he should also be banned from any employment with the British government.

Particularly any diplomatic posts where Tourette’s style ranting should be frowned upon to say the least……..

304 Croc-Wearing Authoritarian  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:45:36am

re: #293 Walter L. Newton

It would be like someone saying “go kill all ducks.” That’s something that inspires a criminal act.

Unless the person saying this is the owner of a duck farm.

305 Baboon Cheeks  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:46:00am

re: #289 Occasional Reader

Even that…. unless he was standing in front of a torch-waving crowd, pointing them toward a synagoge,

Yes, but with the global media and with his prominence, he might as well be.

306 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:46:02am

re: #276 Cognito

It’s ridiculous, this notion that the guy deserves jail time for what he said. But once you subscribe to that way of thinking — if it has to happen — I’m glad it happened to someone who was so clearly a diplomatic shyster.

CLASSIC COGNITO. Only this time, he contradicts HIMSELF in the same paragraph. Way to go bozo.

If you really thought it is ridiculous that this guy deserves any jail time, then… Well, you would have stopped with that statement.

You’re a gem.

307 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:46:30am
308 jwb7605  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:46:44am

re: #301 Rednek

Remember how the the Bush administration was so anti-science?

Say It Ain’t So: Science, Energy on Stimulus Chopping Block

That deserves its own thread.
Link is being propagated as you read this!

309 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:47:03am

re: #304 Alouette

Unless the person saying this is the owner of a duck farm.


I love going to those. Planting duck eggs in the spring! Coming back months later to see all the duck trees. Returning in the fall for the duck harvest!

310 yma o hyd  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:47:37am

re: #259 Opinionated

A huge percentage of people - who think they are versed in the subject- would fail a basic test on the history of the Mideast and the Arab/Israeli conflict.

Its been cloaked in too much propaganda - but the facts can be ferreted out.
I was stunned to read here on LGF a report by RFK, from around 1948, about the number of syrians and otherarabs having emigrated into the then still British rpotectorate of Palestine - because the Zionist settlers had made the living conditions so much better …

311 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:47:38am

re: #307 MandyManners

Your post is sending chills up my spine.

That was a tingle.

312 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:47:38am
313 looking closely  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:47:40am

re: #124 jaunte

I’m thinking of those folks who say that the Jews are Khazars, and the Arabs are the true Semites.


Thats a rather stupid semantic argument, usually employed by Jew-haters to change the topic.

So instead of using the term “Anti-Semite”, I think a better one is “Judeophobe”, or simply “Jew-hater”.

314 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:47:58am
315 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:48:01am

re: #306 Walter L. Newton

Well- you know the msm- they got to present both sides, or some such.

316 SasquatchOnSteroids  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:48:40am

re: #298 Sharmuta

Trying to stifle hate by stifling speech just doesn’t work. But I have to wonder if the real motivation behind these laws is fear. Fear that if the euros allowed the haters to speak freely that the hate would get out of hand because they fear it would appeal to too many since the fundamental problem is europe has not dealt with the underlying issues that spark the hate in the first place. Europe obviously has issues that the public is beginning to get angry about. Perhaps the authorities fear the scapegoating hatred would just be too easy to slip back into, and they see restricting speech as a mechanism to control it.

It’s not right, but I wonder if that’s a motivation.

Well said.
The paint the rusty bumper so the bumper doesn’t rust logic.

317 Opinionated  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:48:42am

re: #302 Kosh’s Shadow

Especially reporters.
And that is part of the reason. Reading the MSM, you’d think that Israel was formed out of an independent Arab country called Palestine, and they ejected all the Arabs into the West Bank and Gaza, not that the Arabs attacked the nascent Israel formed from about 24% of the British mandate of “Palestine”.

I blame the incompetent Elder of Zion we put in charge of Media and Hollywood.

318 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:48:46am

re: #312 MandyManners

You’re quackers.

with cheese, please (and non of those cheap ass Saltines! )

319 tradewind  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:48:51am

They are equally disgusting, because as vile as the m’effer’s words are, the imprisonment thing is dangerous to everyone.

320 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:49:17am

re: #315 Sharmuta

Well- you know the msm- they got to present both sides, or some such.

Cognito wouln’t know how to properly present two sides of an issue if they were taped to his head.

321 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:49:19am

re: #305 Jimmah

Yes, but with the global media and with his prominence, he might as well be.

The reason it’s in the global media is because he was arrested, so I would be cautious about that argument. In that regard, anyone could hit the global “papers” if arrested for “hate speech”, and lead to the self-sealing justification that “well, it could incite someone, somewhere”.

“Clear and present danger” is as good a test as anyone has come up with (thank you, Justice Holmes).

322 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:49:33am

If someone would actually ask the Jewish people what they thought of this geezer and his remarks they would probably respond something like this

“whats new. We have put with hatred for centuries. What may start as verbal abuse inevitably forments into physical abuse. The issue is a matter of the heart. No amount of punishment will change this person’s heart and the hatred that lies within. You will never legislate the hatred away. And so we wait…….”

323 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:49:57am

re: #316 SasquatchOnSteroids

Thanks!

324 calcajun  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:50:15am

He needs some spiritual healing. Maybe he should go to Mel Gibson’s church.

There will always be an England. I’m just nor sure who or what will be running it.


I love robbing the English. They’re so polite.

-Kevin Kline in A Fish Called Wanda

325 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:50:40am
326 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:50:49am

re: #309 sattv4u2

I love going to those. Planting duck eggs in the spring! Coming back months later to see all the duck trees. Returning in the fall for the duck harvest!

Your whole “duck farm” example is just a canard.

327 Boxy_brown  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:51:14am

re: #307 MandyManners

“Your post is sending chills up my spine.”

I am very concerned and fresh out of answers. What I do believe is that people of good will need to be pushing back against this. It is hard to push back on so many issues against people who have seriously checked their brain at the door though.

328 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:51:18am

re: #326 Occasional Reader

Your whole “duck farm” example is just a canard.

It’s a feather in my cap, though.

329 subsailor68  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:51:27am

Apologies if this has been discussed already, but as a Texan, this makes me furious:

16 illegals sue Arizona rancher

330 Athos  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:51:39am

re: #298 Sharmuta

If the hate was in the open too much, then the liberal fascists would have to make judgments and take action against it……which would be embarassing since much of it will ultimately come from their own base.

It’s far easier to pass these laws and then selectively enforce them when doing so provides them with a political / social advantage. They appear as if they are doing something good - but ultimately, like most of the programs from the left, it will in reality achieve nothing that is good.

331 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:52:02am

re: #326 Occasional Reader

Your whole “duck farm” example is just a canard.

That deserves a pate on the back

332 Catttt  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:52:18am

re: #261 Jimmah

I’m against hate speech, but there is an issue of incitement to violence here as well:


So, basically, fuck ‘im.

But even that is not a crime in the USA. Our government cannot punish inflammatory speech unless it is likely to incite imminent lawless action.

From Wiki:

The U.S. Supreme Court reversed Brandenburg’s [Brandenburg vs. Ohio] conviction, holding that government cannot constitutionally punish abstract advocacy of force or law violation. The unanimous majority opinion was per curiam (issued from the Court as an institution rather than as authored and signed by an individual justice).
333 gmsc  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:52:28am

re: #328 Walter L. Newton

It’s a feather in my cap, though.

Don’t let it get you down.

334 vagabond trader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:52:37am

re: #237 nyc redneck


Everyone a victim, big government the protector.

335 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:52:37am
336 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:52:51am

re: #328 Walter L. Newton

It’s a feather in my cap, though.

That was a real mallardpropism.

337 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:52:52am

re: #329 subsailor68

Apologies if this has been discussed already, but as a Texan, this makes me furious:

16 illegals sue Arizona rancher

And rightly so!

338 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:52:58am

re: #333 gmsc

Don’t let it get you down.

I won’t.

339 yma o hyd  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:53:07am

re: #313 looking closely

Thats a rather stupid semantic argument, usually employed by Jew-haters to change the topic.

So instead of using the term “Anti-Semite”, I think a better one is “Judeophobe”, or simply “Jew-hater”.

I’m going to do that as well, from now on.

One might then ask, if ‘Jew-Hate’ is ok, what is wrong with ‘xxx(insert race of your choice)- hate?

340 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:53:13am
341 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:53:18am

re: #301 Rednek

Remember how the the Bush administration was so anti-science?

Say It Ain’t So: Science, Energy on Stimulus Chopping Block

Actually, I was wondering what the hell science and energy appropriations were doing in an emergency economic stimulus package. As one commentator over there said, “THIS IS supposed to be a STIMULUS not an appropriations bill not a grab bag.”

342 doppelganglander  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:54:03am

re: #279 yma o hyd

Indeed there is. It is in fact far worse, because with a state health service comes a bureaucracy, who takes over decisions as to where resources are being spent.
And you can certainly guess where they are not spent - on the care of the elderly.
Now our ‘Health Service’ has been going for 60 years, always udnerfunded, and more and more a political play ball, more and more given to vast bureaucracies ratehr than care for the sick.
You won’t be getting there as fast because you’re starting from a much higher level, and not from the stoical days of post-war Britain.

I don’t know. I think it could happen very quickly. Once someone other than the physician, the patient and the family is making the decisions, patients are no longer seen as human.

I think about my 79-year-old mother, who had successful rotator cuff surgery last month. She had to wait about a month because of Christmas and New Year’s, as well as the surgeon’s availability. She’s getting physical therapy and doing great, and she should be back to providing home day care for toddler twins sometime next month. Would a government bureaucracy have denied her the surgery and therapy based on her age? Would it have been okay at 79, but not a few months later at 80? Would it be okay for her, but not okay for someone else? I do not want to live in a world where some GS-9 (low-level government employee) is making that decision based on a file without ever meeting her.

343 calcajun  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:54:03am

re: #273 Boxy_brown

The world has just lost it’s mind. This country has elected a dangerous incompetent with a totalitarian streak a mile wide. People are lined up to mortgage their futures and surrender their freedoms. The perpetual canary in the coal mine; the Jews are being vilified by the supposed elites, we are doing everything we can to bankrupt ourselves and destroy our currency… this is what the Weimar Republic must have felt like. Haven’t read the above but if someone has come to the same conclusion I wouldn’t be surprised.

Well, the Nazis at least had spiffy uniforms. Under The One’s new regime, the uniforms will be those dumb-ass looking bow-ties worn by the Nation of Islam thugs. I mean, what’s the point in going all totalitarian if you don’t do it with some style. (major sarcasm here—not just bole, but hyperbole)

344 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:54:07am

re: #261 Jimmah

I’m against hate speech, but there is an issue of incitement to violence here as well:


So, basically, fuck ‘im.

Me too, Fuck the Bastards, Fuck ‘em all!

/

345 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:54:22am
346 tradewind  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:54:27am

re: #329 subsailor68

Wait. How does an ’ illegal’ have any standing to sue a citizen?

347 sattv4u2  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:54:35am

re: #339 yma o hyd

I’m going to do that as well, from now on.

One might then ask, if ‘Jew-Hate’ is ok, what is wrong with ‘xxx(insert race of your choice)- hate?

I always hated the 3 legged race. Tied to some clumsy meathead, if he trips and falls so do I!

348 looking closely  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:54:46am

re: #225 Dianna

Are you sure? As I recall, Lawrence’s taste was (ah, is there a discreet way to put this?) not being the active party?

Indeed, the word you are looking for is “bottom”.

The “active party” (as you so delicately put it) is a “top”.

I have no idea what Lawrence’s particular taste was, incidentally, nor do I much care.

349 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:54:52am

re: #341 CyanSnowHawk

Actually, I was wondering what the hell science and energy appropriations were doing in an emergency economic stimulus package. As one commentator over there said, “THIS IS supposed to be a STIMULUS not an appropriations bill not a grab bag.”

You took the words right out of my keyboard.

350 calcajun  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:54:56am

re: #328 Walter L. Newton

It’s a feather in my cap, though.

If we start with these puns, some one is liable to get sick with some unknown mallard-ry

351 tfc3rid  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:55:09am

re: #288 buzzsawmonkey

BTW, heard that the current cover headline on one of the major newsweeklies—Time or Newsweek—is “We Are All Socialists Now.”

True?

Newsweek… TRUE,

352 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:55:32am

A-Rod in an interview to be aired on ESPN tonight admits to taking Steroids for 3 years but also plays the ignorance card, that it was wild times and he really didn’t know what he was taking? I call BULLSHIT. He knew and figured he would never get caught.

353 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:55:39am

re: #347 sattv4u2

I always hated the 3 legged race. Tied to some clumsy meathead, if he trips and falls so do I!

Probably what he was thinking……

354 Catttt  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:56:01am

re: #345 MandyManners

Don’t forget Cohen v. California: Fuck the draft.

Fuck yeah. Had to say it.

355 J.D.  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:56:06am

re: #351 tfc3rid

Newsweek… TRUE,

Pshaw!

356 tfc3rid  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:56:09am

We Are All Socialists Now - Newsweak

357 calcajun  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:56:18am

re: #331 sattv4u2

That deserves a pate on the back

Hmm. Not sure about that one. Need to take a gander at the earlier posts.

358 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:56:19am
359 Boxy_brown  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:56:30am

re: #340 MandyManners
I don’t think they’ve checked their brains at the door. I think they have hatred in their hearts which corrupts their mjnds.

Many, but what is worse is many are just along for the ride. On the bandwagon. I think it has probably always been as such. The whole banality of evil thing.

360 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:56:37am
361 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:56:45am

re: #350 calcajun

If we start with these puns, some one is liable to get sick with some unknown mallard-ry

Not to mention, they seem to be a decoy to lure us off-topic.

362 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:56:48am

re: #329 subsailor68

Apologies if this has been discussed already, but as a Texan, this makes me furious:

16 illegals sue Arizona rancher

How do they have legal standing to sue if they crossed the border illegally and trespassed on his property?

363 LGoPs  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:57:17am

re: #331 sattv4u2

That deserves a pate on the back

Geese Loooeeez….not more puns……..

364 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:57:37am
365 calcajun  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:57:46am

re: #361 Occasional Reader

Not to mention, they seem to be a decoy to lure us off-topic.

More like the blind leading the blind.

366 Catttt  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:57:47am

re: #363 LGoPs

Geese Loooeeez….not more puns……..

I agree. Puns are fowl.

367 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:58:06am
368 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:58:10am

re: #281 jcm

Did a quick search of the bill. Only thing that I find for FCC is the WiFi infrastructure section.

Do you have a link to what you reviewed?

I’ve tried to read some bills in the past and I couldn’t get through the legal mumbo jumbo….. references to other laws, modifications to paragraphs in other documents or other distant places in the same document.

369 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:58:18am

re: #330 Athos

If the hate was in the open too much, then the liberal fascists would have to make judgments and take action against it……which would be embarassing since much of it will ultimately come from their own base.

It’s far easier to pass these laws and then selectively enforce them when doing so provides them with a political / social advantage. They appear as if they are doing something good - but ultimately, like most of the programs from the left, it will in reality achieve nothing that is good.

That really complicates their whole “Evil is the victim of Good” meme. I can see where restricting speech then applying the law selectively would ease that burden.

370 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:58:26am

re: #358 MandyManners

WTF?

I haven’t read it but I’ll bet you dollars to new jobs that the conculsion of the article is there is no socialism here, move on.

371 tfc3rid  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:58:35am

re: #295 jwb7605

I hope it is.
Everybody seems to be in denial, so a wakeup headline might be useful.

It’s used in a sense where they say it was a Conservative Republican administration that started socialism and that it is not a terrible thing…

372 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:58:46am

re: #356 tfc3rid

We Are All Socialists Now - Newsweak

In many ways our economy already resembles a European one. As boomers age and spending grows, we will become even more French

Too late to say “fuck the bastards”. It is more like “oh shit, we are all fucked now”

373 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:59:11am

re: #366 Catttt

I agree. Puns are fowl.

Indeed. Let’s get back to discussing the stimulus bill.

374 Rancher  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:59:13am

re: #290 MandyManners

I wonder who could be the test case?

Someone with power. He or she doesn’t have to say the F word, merely say that he or she wants Obama to fail. They probably wouldn’t put the first case in jail either, just get them off the airways.

375 Baboon Cheeks  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:59:13am

re: #321 Occasional Reader

I think it’s in the global media because he’s a diplomat, and this guarantees mass reproduction of his statement. I’m sure he’s a hero already in certain quarters. I think if someone makes a statement which explicitly incites violence, and especially if it is bound to reach the ears of those in a position to do that violence, free speech is no defence.

376 J.D.  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:59:23am

re: #356 tfc3rid

We Are All Socialists Now - Newsweak

Damned depressing.

377 Dianna  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:59:24am

re: #348 looking closely

Indeed, the word you are looking for is “bottom”.

The “active party” (as you so delicately put it) is a “top”.

I have no idea what Lawrence’s particular taste was, incidentally, nor do I much care.

I know the phrasing. I just thought it a bit crude.

Heck, it’s not even noon here!

378 tradewind  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:59:28am

Think it’s gonna take a BB gun to fix things there:
bloomberg.com

379 subsailor68  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:59:51am

re: #362 Who Watches the Watchmen?

How do they have legal standing to sue if they crossed the border illegally and trespassed on his property?

My guess is they found a bottom-feeding, scum-sucking ambulance chasing POS lawyer who figured he could make some money testing the system.

Could be wrong.

But I don’t think so.

380 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 11:59:56am

re: #360 buzzsawmonkey

That certainly puts the Gramscian Ho’ in “horrific.”

A quick scan of the article seems to show that’s it at least not entirely cheerleading for the idea of socialism (after all, that could very well be a sarcastic National Review headline), but it does cheerfully call the drift toward it “inevitable”. Uh, no, kids, it’s not.

381 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:00:02pm
382 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:00:16pm

re: #364 MandyManners

we will become even more French.

Not only no but, fuck no.

I was way too slow……

383 Boxy_brown  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:00:25pm

re: #343 calcajun

Under The One’s new regime, the uniforms will be those dumb-ass looking bow-ties worn by the Nation of Islam thugs.

One can only hope that bow-ties aren’t the new jackboots. (Thankfully, there is something inherently weenie about the Farrakhan bow tie. )

384 LGoPs  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:00:34pm

re: #350 calcajun

If we start with these puns, some one is liable to get sick with some unknown mallard-ry

One good tern deserves another……

385 Bagua  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:00:39pm

This is clearly a Man bites Dog incident, in Britain the “hate speech” law is normally only applied when the victim is Muslim; Jews are fair game and hate speech against Christians is generally encouraged as being either education or art.

In their origin, these laws were well meaning, but misguided attempts to combat antisemitism, in application they are now used to silence criticism of Islam and immigration by native European Caucasians. Non-Caucasians are rarely charged.

If this incident had involved some-one of Pakistani origin, it is doubtful they would have been charged, but as it was a “white” brit he was charged.

386 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:00:42pm

re: #370 Walter L. Newton

I haven’t read it but I’ll bet you dollars to new jobs that the conculsion of the article is there is no socialism here, move on.

Ok, I just glanced over it, basically, it’s already socialistic, so nothing to worry about. Good, that takes a load off my mind.

387 abaleh  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:00:49pm

re: #322 A Kiwi Infidel

If someone would actually ask the Jewish people what they thought of this geezer and his remarks they would probably respond something like this

“whats new. We have put with hatred for centuries. What may start as verbal abuse inevitably forments into physical abuse. The issue is a matter of the heart. No amount of punishment will change this person’s heart and the hatred that lies within. You will never legislate the hatred away. And so we wait…….”

Israel wasn’t created so that anti-semitism would disappear, it was created so that we could tell people like Mr. Laxton to bugger off.

388 tradewind  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:00:58pm

re: #379 subsailor68

They found MALDF, which is even worse.
The mexican equivalent of CAIR.

389 yma o hyd  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:01:28pm

re: #342 doppelganglander

Oh - the operation wouldn’t be denied to your mother. Its far more subtle that that.
As the resources are finite, htere won’t be that many specialists to go around. So there will be waiting lists, everybody has to wait their turn, what could be fairer than that?
And of course its only fair that real emergencies take precedence.
So your mom would wait - and wait - a couple of months, or four … or six …

And these waiting lists can be manipulated, the human ingenuity is boundless.
So we still have people in their seventies, waiting for a year or two to get a hip replacement. If they don’t die before, they’ll get it - after years of pain and deteriorating health.

Thats how it works.

390 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:01:31pm

re: #373 Who Watches the Watchmen?

Indeed. Let’s get back to discussing the stimulus bill.

Yes, discussion of that bill is very much a-foot on the Web.

391 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:01:31pm

re: #376 J.D.

Damned depressing.

Why, it says we are already socialistic, it’s fine.
/

392 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:01:56pm

A-Rod said he used Performance Enhancing drugs while in Texas because he felt pressure to preform and help the team. But he never used them during his Yankee Years. I guess he felt no such responsibility to preform while a Yankee? This guy should have been a comedian?

393 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:02:12pm
394 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:02:34pm
395 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:02:37pm

re: #381 buzzsawmonkey

Out with my deodorant—and where the hell is my bidet?

As I have previously noted, with my Brave Voice of Dissent, I completely see the point of bidets, and have no problem with them.

396 Opinionated  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:02:43pm

re: #310 yma o hyd

the Zionist settlers had made the living conditions so much better …

The Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank- not to mention Israeli Arabs- are the luckiest Arabs on the planet because of the benefits they have received - education, health, etc- from being intertwined with Israel.

397 opnion  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:02:44pm

re: #329 subsailor68

Apologies if this has been discussed already, but as a Texan, this makes me furious:

16 illegals sue Arizona rancher

The insanity continues. These Mexican nationals are clearly trespassing, just by crossing the border illeagaly. The man’s property was under siege & being destroyed & his cattle in danger.
Some judge thinks that there is sufficient cause to let case be brought against this guy?
He was making citizen arrests & acting in a legal manner.

398 gmsc  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:02:48pm

OT: A local TV show here in Vegas asked their viewers to call in with their responses to “What do you want for Valentine’s Day?”

They said that about 95% of the responses they got were variations of a desire to see the stimulus bill fail. The best version of this response was: “For Valentine’s Day, I’d like to see the stimulus bill die like a gangster in a Chicago garage.”

Some messages included requests to stop with stupid questions like this while our country’s economy is being sent down the tubes.

399 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:02:58pm
400 yma o hyd  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:03:05pm

re: #347 sattv4u2

I always hated the 3 legged race. Tied to some clumsy meathead, if he trips and falls so do I!

Aww - that is indeed hate-worthy!

:-)

401 abaleh  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:03:05pm

re: #387 abaleh

Israel wasn’t created so that anti-semitism would disappear, it was created so that we could tell people like Mr. Laxton to bugger off.

paraphrased from this.

402 LGoPs  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:03:13pm

re: #390 Occasional Reader

Yes, discussion of that bill is very much a-foot on the Web.

I forgot to duck when I saw your pun coming……

403 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:03:27pm
404 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:03:37pm
405 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:04:01pm

re: #392 Nevergiveup

Please, his nickname is now “A-roid”.

406 tfc3rid  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:04:18pm

re: #392 Nevergiveup

A-Rod said he used Performance Enhancing drugs while in Texas because he felt pressure to preform and help the team. But he never used them during his Yankee Years. I guess he felt no such responsibility to preform while a Yankee? This guy should have been a comedian?

Of course he used as a Yankee… That clubhouse was like a chemistry lab…

407 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:04:22pm

re: #405 Honorary Yooper

Heh!

408 Baboon Cheeks  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:04:29pm

re: #332 Catttt

I was happy to see arrests made over the cartoon protests in which muslims called for the beheading of those who insult Islam.

mypetjawa.mu.nu

What is your take on that? I think the fundamentals here are the same, except that one case was that of a mob, and the other an individual.

409 tradewind  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:04:33pm

re: #390 Occasional Reader

It’s evidently enough to pay off 90% of the outstanding mortgages in the US today.
Dammit. I knew I should have gotten one. Paying for a house in cash seems now like it was a really stupid move.

410 J.D.  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:04:48pm

re: #391 Walter L. Newton

Why, it says we are already socialistic, it’s fine.
/

Of course you’re right.

So we must be already like the French to now be more like the French.
I see how this works…

411 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:05:12pm
412 SummerSong  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:05:20pm

re: #363 LGoPs

Geese Loooeeez….not more puns……..

They are so fowl…

413 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:05:26pm

re: #379 subsailor68

My guess is they found a bottom-feeding, scum-sucking ambulance chasing POS lawyer who figured he could make some money testing the system.

Could be wrong.

But I don’t think so.

They called a Congressman?

414 Scorch  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:05:38pm

The power grab begins with BHO moving the census into the White House.
foxnews.com

Oh by the way the stimulus plan in not loaded down with earmarks so says BHO five times.

415 calcajun  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:05:42pm

re: #384 LGoPs

One good tern deserves another……

I have no egrets about these puns—I’d do them again.

416 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:05:45pm
417 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:05:52pm

re: #402 LGoPs

I forgot to duck when I saw your pun coming……

You can always send him the bill.

418 opnion  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:05:57pm

re: #346 tradewind

Wait. How does an ’ illegal’ have any standing to sue a citizen?


if an illegal is robbed or physically attacked, they would have standing.
This is a trumped up “Civil Rights” action.
The judge should have simply ruled favorably on the defense motion to dismiss.

419 J.D.  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:05:57pm

re: #409 tradewind

It’s evidently enough to pay off 90% of the outstanding mortgages in the US today.
Dammit. I knew I should have gotten one. Paying for a house in cash seems now like it was a really stupid move.

I feel your pain.

Who knew?

420 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:05:58pm

re: #406 tfc3rid

Of course he used as a Yankee… That clubhouse was like a chemistry lab…

I am sure he did but probably switched to human growth hormone which is still undetectable. I am just relating what is being reported from the ESPN interview.

421 DaddyG  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:06:07pm

re: #366 Catttt

I agree. Puns are fowl.

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck… its a real quack up.

422 crown_of_feathers  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:06:09pm

re: #223 Opinionated

“How many people do you think know that in Israel’s war of Independence Israel fought Arab armies led by British officers who were on active British service?”

Yep. Example John Bagot Glubb, a.k.a. “Glubb Pasha”
en.wikipedia.org

“Sir John died in 1986 at his home in Mayfield, East Sussex, and is buried in the graveyard at St. Dunstan’s Church in the village. Lady Glubb died in September 2005 and is interred with him. Their son, Godfrey, converted to Islam as a young man and took the name of Faris, becoming a prominent journalist and researcher into the Palestinian cause”

British Palestinianism (worship of the adorable and angelic “Palestinians”) evidently goes back a long way. It’s a perfect outlet for that particularly unpleasant combination of snobbishness and Jew-hatred that this particular asshole from the FO, Laxton, exhibits.

423 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:06:24pm
424 gmsc  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:06:39pm

re: #417 Kosh’s Shadow

You can always send him the bill.

What’s the down payment?
;)

425 jcm  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:06:39pm

re: #405 Honorary Yooper

Please, his nickname is now “A-roid”.

A-roids first game back in Seattle after he left, a fan hung a dollar bill from a fishing rod in front of the Texas dugout

426 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:07:05pm

re: #381 buzzsawmonkey

Out with my deodorant—and where the hell is my bidet?

They’re not done blowing smoke up there yet, don’t even think you can clean it anytime soon.

427 calcajun  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:07:06pm

re: #416 MandyManners

I was wrong. It’s the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund.

“Defense” AND “Education”—that’s a pretty tall order to fill.

428 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:07:11pm
429 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:07:19pm

re: #403 buzzsawmonkey

…and will be teaching your class in their proper use where and when?

When: June 6, hereinafter referred to as “B-Day”

Where: The Normandy coast, on a beach to be named “Juno”, as in “Juno How To Use a Bidet? It’s Remarkably Easy!”

430 ThinkRight  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:07:27pm

Charles
Is anything said on here going to get us arrested ?
/?

The stuff that does not get deleted

431 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:07:43pm

re: #421 DaddyG

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck… its a real quack up.

All this in a thread about a British guy who steps like a goose.

432 tfc3rid  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:07:44pm

re: #420 Nevergiveup

I am sure he did but probably switched to human growth hormone which is still undetectable. I am just relating what is being reported from the ESPN interview.

Oh I know, I’ve listened to his comments… All things to all people… Just like his kinsman O-Fraud…

433 johnnygriswold  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:07:52pm

Well, it could have been worse. If he had said “Fuck the Muslims”, he’d have been beheaded.

434 golly  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:07:59pm

re: #421 DaddyG

If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck… its a real quack up.

What a buncha loons - you’re making me daffy.

435 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:08:19pm
436 gmsc  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:08:37pm

re: #430 ThinkRight

Charles
Is anything said on here going to get us arrested ?
/?

Only by the Civilian Security Force.

437 tradewind  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:08:46pm

re: #414 Scorch

This violates the spirit, if not the letter, of the separation of powers doctrine…..
It must not pass.

438 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:08:48pm
439 calcajun  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:08:54pm

re: #434 golly

What a buncha loons - you’re making me daffy.

All these bad puns are giving me a migrate headache.

440 Baboon Cheeks  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:08:56pm

re: #261 Jimmah

Btw - just to clarify - I know at least one person has picked this up wrong - when I said I was against hate speech, I meant that I was against giving credence to the concept of ‘hate speech’.

441 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:08:57pm
442 J.D.  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:09:22pm

Apologies in advance to anyone who’s seen this or if it offends…

A beautiful fairy appeared one day to a destitute refugee claimant outside a Maryland immigration office..

‘Good man,’ the fairy said, ‘I’ve been sent here by President Obama and told to grant you three wishes, since you just arrived in the United States with your wife and three children.’

The man told the fairy. ‘Well, where I come from we don’t have good teeth, so I want new teeth, maybe a lot of gold in them.’

The fairy looked at the man’s almost toothless grin and —

PING ! — he had a brand new shining set of gold teeth in his mouth!

‘What else?’ asked the fairy, ‘two more to go.’

The refugee claimant now got bolder. ‘I need a big house with a three car garage in Annapolis on the water with eight bedrooms for my family and the rest of my relatives who still live in my country. I want to bring them all over here..

PING ! - In the distance there could be seen a beautiful mansion with a three car garage, a long driveway, a walkout patio with a BBQ in an upscale neighborhood overlooking the bay.

‘One more wish’, said the fairy, waving her wand. ‘Yes, one more wish.

I want to be like an American with American clothes instead of these torn clothes, and a baseball cap instead of this turban. And I want to have white skin like Americans.

PING ! - The man was transformed, wearing worn out jeans, a Baltimore Orioles t-shirt and a baseball cap. He had his bad teeth back and the mansion had disappeared from the horizon.

‘What happened to my new teeth?’ he wailed. ‘Where is my new house?’

The fairy said ‘Tough shit, Mac. Now that you are a white American, you have to fend for yourself.’
And she disappeared.

443 yma o hyd  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:09:37pm

re: #396 Opinionated

The Arabs in Gaza and the West Bank- not to mention Israeli Arabs- are the luckiest Arabs on the planet because of the benefits they have received - education, health, etc- from being intertwined with Israel.

That, sadly, is not how they see it.
And we all know what this garden in the desert would look like, once they fuflfil their dream and kill all Israelis.
A look into the neighbouring countries provides ample evidence - not just Gaza, but the hellhole Hezbollah has made of Lebanon … so forth …

444 calcajun  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:09:48pm

re: #441 MandyManners

You want your day to get worse? Let’s not go there ,shall we.

445 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:09:53pm

re: #435 buzzsawmonkey

Omaha-rrified that you could pyramid all those quips together.

Caen you just please calm down?

446 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:09:56pm
447 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:10:17pm
448 tradewind  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:10:18pm

re: #418 opnion

I understand that part, but standing depends upon the court in which you would sue. Seems to me there is no jurisdiction here.
Except in a reverse way. He can sue them.
Although in my part of the country, he could have just shot ‘em, and no one would have messed with him, as long as they weren’t hurt too badly.

449 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:10:21pm

re: #439 calcajun

All these bad puns are giving me a migrate headache.

Swallow some aspirin, then.

450 opnion  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:10:42pm

re: #428 MandyManners

He had a gun and a dog.

Carrying a gun & having a dog is not illegal & given that his property was being destroyed & his house broken into etc, was reasonable.
He could not know that the illegals would not get violent or that they were not narco traffickers.

451 Land Shark  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:10:47pm

Charles said:

“I’m not sure which is more disgusting — this antisemitic rant by a British diplomat, or the fact that in Britain you can be imprisoned for seven years because you said some words.”

Ain’t that the truth! To me the notion that someone could go to jail for speech is very disturbing. I can see arresting someone for yelling “fire” and causing a panic, but everyone is entitled to express an opinion, no matter how disgusting. I feel the same way about laws that criminalize Holocaust denial. I think everyone who denies the Holocaust is as best an ignorant fool and at worst an anti-semitic hate-monger, but they are entitled to express their opinion. I’d rather see such disgusting things debated in the arena of ideas, not “banned”. True freedom of speech means tolerating offensive speech, not just acceptable speech.

Sadly, I expect we’re gonna see more of this, especially in the US now that we have a politically correct imbecile as President.

452 tradewind  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:10:47pm

re: #440 Jimmah

It’s a sticks and stones thang.

453 Rancher  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:10:58pm

re: #399 MandyManners

Hasn’t that already been said? By Rush?


And that will be used to get him and any other conservative off the public airways. It’s only fair.

454 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:11:24pm
455 Boxy_brown  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:11:27pm

re: #367 MandyManners

re: #359 Boxy_brown

Doesn’t it take more energy to hate?

Yes, but I think there are people who behave in hateful ways without technically hating. They have rationalized it as something else. “Following the law” or “defending themselves against whatever”…. “Just following orders” is a popular one. I think in movements like this many people just get swept up and don’t realize what they have done until it’s too late.

456 DaddyG  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:11:51pm

re: #329 subsailor68

Apologies if this has been discussed already, but as a Texan, this makes me furious:

16 illegals sue Arizona rancher

Mr. Barnett’s dog barked at several of the women and he yelled at them in Spanish, “My dog is hungry and he’s hungry for buttocks.”

Mmmmm Gamey undocumented buttocks!

457 HoosierHoops  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:11:53pm

re: #358 MandyManners

WTF?


Hi Mandy.. Send you an email..

458 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:12:00pm

South Australia Fire update.

173 confirmed dead, many more unaccounted for, 24 blazes still out of control, 750 homes destroyed, over 330,000 hectares burned. Not over by a long way.

459 DaddyG  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:12:11pm

re: #445 Occasional Reader

Caen you just please calm down?


Don’t egg him on.

460 tradewind  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:12:19pm

re: #447 MandyManners

…Which is why I said the spirit. Not the letter.
For the WH COS to take it over is tantamount to letting BHO himself cook the books, IMO.

461 calcajun  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:12:27pm

re: #449 Kosh’s Shadow

Swallow some aspirin, then.

No pain killers for me—it’s a cardinal rule.

462 doppelganglander  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:12:30pm

re: #379 subsailor68

My guess is they found a bottom-feeding, scum-sucking ambulance chasing POS lawyer who figured he could make some money testing the system.

Could be wrong.

But I don’t think so.

Any sane judge would throw this out immediately, but there seems to be a shortage of sane judges. For starters, they were trespassing. Second, they have no proof that the property owner was menacing them or pointing the gun (which I am quite sure he owned legally). Third, the Border Patrol has known for 10 years that the property has become the illegal alien superhighway, so the owner clearly knew what was going on and was not overreacting.

I would expect, in the unlikely event this goes to trial, the plaintiffs’ attorney would try to get a jury heavy with Hispanics, expecting sympathy. I also think he’d be pretty surprised by how Hispanic American citizens feel about illegals.

463 golly  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:12:52pm

re: #449 Kosh’s Shadow

Swallow some aspirin, then.

My, that was a swift retort.

464 Golem Akbar  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:13:07pm

Michael Medved, on his radio show, is playing the tape of the Bishop who was just recently pardoned by the Pope. He sounds like a nutter/truther.

465 calcajun  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:13:08pm

re: #454 MandyManners

My unicorn arrived! I’m having a marvelous day!

Did you bring enough medication for everyone?

466 gmsc  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:13:11pm

re: #442 J.D.

Apologies in advance to anyone who’s seen this or if it offends…

This reminds me of when Russian comedian Yakov Smirnoff was finally sworn in as a U.S. citizen. Shortly after his swearing in, a reporter asked him how it felt to officially and legally be an American. He replied, “Now I’m worried about those damn foreigners. They’re coming over here and taking our jobs!”

467 tradewind  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:13:12pm

re: #461 calcajun

That’s just cukoo.

468 Dave the.....  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:13:23pm

On the White House taking over the census….one problem with one party rule, is that they will do things to make it permanent.

-Control the census
-Get their people in as Sec’y of State (see Soros and Minnesota)
-Redo the “Fairness Doctrine” (sic) via back door maneuvers (silience oposition press)
-Put more people on the gov’t payroll (automatic Democrat voters)
-Put more people on some form of welfare
-Get DC voting rights in congress
-Harrass your political opponents with nonstop investigations.

469 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:13:25pm
470 jcm  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:13:38pm

re: #414 Scorch

The power grab begins with BHO moving the census into the White House.
[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

Oh by the way the stimulus plan in not loaded down with earmarks so says BHO five times.

The census is outlined in Article I The Legislative Branch.

The power of the census is not in Article II The Executive Branch.

Blatant unconstitutional power grab.

471 calcajun  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:13:44pm

re: #463 golly

My, that was a swift retort.

Glad you got the thrush of my argument.

472 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:13:55pm

re: #461 calcajun

No pain killers for me—it’s a cardinal rule.

That policy just seems stork, starling mad, if you ask me.

473 Dave the.....  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:14:05pm

Oh, and get your judges in there to kill any legal threats to the above.

474 tradewind  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:14:39pm

re: #472 Occasional Reader

You mean stork raven mad, don’t ya?

475 subsailor68  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:14:47pm

re: #438 Iron Fist

That is so much bullshit. The worst thing is that he really has no options except to fight it in court. The fuckers who are supporting the illegals should be forced to pay dude’s legal expenses, and the case thrown out as a maliciously frivolous lawsuit. People don’t have a right to be on my property, I don’t care who they are or why they are there. If they are cops and they don’t have a warrant I’ll escort them off the premises, at gunpoint if necessary.

Build the Fence. What is so damned hard to understand about that?

That’s exactly how I feel. As a couple of folks upstream posted, it appears to be backed by a group called MALDF. I need to find out more about these worms.

476 Rancher  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:14:55pm

re: #404 MandyManners

From what I’ve read, it’s a Mexican firm.

Founded in 1968 in San Antonio, Texas, the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund (MALDEF) is the leading nonprofit Latino litigation, advocacy and educational outreach institution in the United States.
MALDEF’s mission is to foster sound public policies, laws and programs to safeguard the civil rights of the 45 million Latinos living in the United States and to empower the Latino community to fully participate in our society.

477 opnion  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:15:06pm

re: #448 tradewind

I understand that part, but standing depends upon the court in which you would sue. Seems to me there is no jurisdiction here.
Except in a reverse way. He can sue them.
Although in my part of the country, he could have just shot ‘em, and no one would have messed with him, as long as they weren’t hurt too badly.

I would agree that there is no standing for a Civil Rights violation.

478 calcajun  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:15:12pm

re: #472 Occasional Reader

That policy just seems stork, starling mad, if you ask me.

And heron lies the point of my puns—it’s due to my loon-acy.

479 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:15:30pm

re: #475 subsailor68

That’s exactly how I feel. As a couple of folks upstream posted, it appears to be backed by a group called MALDF. I need to find out more about these worms.


Just follow the money, follow the money.

480 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:15:36pm

re: #468 Dave the…..

On the White House taking over the census….one problem with one party rule, is that they will do things to make it permanent.

-Control the census
-Get their people in as Sec’y of State (see Soros and Minnesota)
-Redo the “Fairness Doctrine” (sic) via back door maneuvers (silience oposition press)
-Put more people on the gov’t payroll (automatic Democrat voters)
-Put more people on some form of welfare
-Get DC voting rights in congress
-Harrass your political opponents with nonstop investigations.


And We, The Blogosphere are part of the pushback on all of those things, if and when they’re tried. Keep your virtual powder dry….

481 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:15:36pm

Cartoon about the stimulus bill

482 LGoPs  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:15:39pm

re: #418 opnion

if an illegal is robbed or physically attacked, they would have standing.
This is a trumped up “Civil Rights” action.
The judge should have simply ruled favorably on the defense motion to dismiss.

In my untrained legal opinion this case confuses civil rights and human rights.
The illegals, at the very most, might and I emphasize the word might have a human rights claim but under no circumstances a civil rights claim. Civil rights accrue to US citizens, not to illegal trespassers.

And if they want to push human rights then go ahead and push it in an international court…..lotsa luck getting the American citizen to respond.

I think this si more of the intentional erosion and blurring of what it means to be a US citizen. Liberals woudl like to confer those rights on everyone in the world, including Islamic terrorists……

483 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:15:40pm
484 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:15:51pm
485 Boulderight  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:15:57pm

Haven’t read through all the comments, hope I’m not annoyingly repeating news stories…I just find this a bit outrageous…

OT:

washingtontimes.com

486 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:16:20pm
487 BLBfootballs  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:16:55pm

Would anyone mind if I responded with ‘F—- the British Foreign Office’? No bureaucracy deserves it more.

488 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:17:12pm
489 J.D.  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:17:16pm

re: #466 gmsc

This reminds me of when Russian comedian Yakov Smirnoff was finally sworn in as a U.S. citizen. Shortly after his swearing in, a reporter asked him how it felt to officially and legally be an American. He replied, “Now I’m worried about those damn foreigners. They’re coming over here and taking our jobs!”

Perfect!

Had a Mexican on the concrete crew and he’s all torn up…wife has left him…he says, “She had a Mexican, but she wants a Guatemalan!”

490 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:17:21pm

re: #406 tfc3rid

Once a liar, you can’t trust anything he says. It wouldn’t surprise me that he continued taking ‘roids after joining the Yanks.

And you know who deserves an apology? Jose Canseco - who once again was proven right…. more.

Name the names. And I also bet that a few Boston types will end up on the list including Nomar and Schilling…

491 Kragar  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:17:25pm

re: #487 BLBfootballs

Would anyone mind if I responded with ‘F—- the British Foreign Office’? No bureaucracy deserves it more.

HATE CRIME!

///

492 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:17:26pm

re: #487 BLBfootballs

Would anyone mind if I responded with ‘F—- the British Foreign Office’? No bureaucracy deserves it more.


Fill ya boots!

493 opnion  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:17:30pm

re: #469 MandyManners

They’re claiming emotional distress.

Tough noogies: they should not have been there in the first place.

Mandy, I think that we are saying the same thing. The Rancher had every right to have the dog & rifle.

494 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:17:30pm

re: #482 LGoPs

this case confuses civil rights and human rights

buzzsawmonkey to jump in, in 3…2…1…

495 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:17:42pm
496 Boulderight  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:17:53pm

Yep…sorry about that everyone. Glad we are all on the same page, keep up the fantastic comments. Does Arizona have a “make my day” law like Colorado?

497 jcm  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:17:56pm

re: #476 Rancher

Founded in 1968 in San Antonio, Texas, the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund (MALDEF) is the leading nonprofit Latino litigation, advocacy and educational outreach institution in the United States.
MALDEF’s mission is to foster sound public policies, laws and programs to safeguard the civil rights of the 45 million Latinos living in the United States and to empower the Latino community to fully participate in our society.

MEXICAN AMERICAN LEGAL DEFENSE AND EDUCATIONAL FUND (MALDEF)

MALDEF favors the issuance of drivers’ licenses to illegal immigrants. While acknowledging that this confers de facto citizenship and rewards lawbreaking, the organization nonetheless maintains that the measure is necessary to prevent “discrimination” against immigrants. In MALDEF’s view, biases against minority immigrants pervade virtually every aspect of American life, as expressed in MALDEF’s denunciation of the “customary practice of workplace discrimination” against Latinos.

Trumpeting the value of immigrants who currently reside in the U.S. in violation of immigration law, MALDEF states that America’s “failed immigration policy … has resulted in a complete lack of legal recognition of millions of immigrants who are the backbone of the U.S. economy … doing the jobs that U.S. citizens and residents do not want.” On the basis of these purported contributions to American society, MALDEF has exhorted Congress “to consider legalization” for all “undocumented persons living and working here in the U.S.”

Education is another focus of MALDEF’s activism. The organization has repeatedly filed lawsuits aimed at forcing states to mandate bilingual education in public schools, and has sought to suppress successful ballot initiatives — such as California Proposition 227 and Arizona’s Proposition 203 — to ban bilingual education. After California voters passed Proposition 227 in 1998, MALDEF, along with the ACLU, filed for a temporary restraining order to keep the state’s largest school district from implementing the will of the voters. MALDEF has also waged a prolonged legal battle to lower educational standards to accommodate Latinos.

498 Rancher  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:18:05pm

Just some friendly advice, holding anyone at gunpoint, legal or otherwise, is a risky proposition, it can easily be considered kidnapping.

499 gmsc  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:18:14pm

re: #447 MandyManners

Which? The taking over of the census? That’s a function of the Department of Commerce which is an executive office.

Is a White House take over of the census constitutional?

MSNBC reports that:

The Capitol Hill publication Congressional Quarterly yesterday reported that the White House, responding to minority groups’ concerns about Gregg’s commitment to funding the census, has decided to have the director of the Census Bureau report directly to the White House.

Why am I expecting ACORN to get the census contract?

In Article I, Section 2 the US Constitution orders that “The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.”

The Congress, by law directed that:

“The Secretary [of Commerce] shall perform the functions and duties imposed upon him by this title, may issue such rules and regulations as he deems necessary to carry out such functions and duties, and may delegate the performance of such functions and duties and the authority to issue such rules and regulations to such officers and employees of the Department of Commerce as he may designate.”

As I read it, the Director of the Census must, by law, be within the Department of Commerce and under the direction of the (Senate approved) Secretary of Commerce who then reports to the president. Am I missing something?


Correction: From reading through Title 13, Chapter 1 it appears obvious to me that the POTUS has no role in the census whatsoever beyond, with Senate approval, selecting the Secretary of Commerce and, also with Senate approval, selecting the Director of the Census who “shall perform such duties as may be imposed upon him by law, regulations, or orders of the Secretary.” Hhmmm… No president mentioned.

The Secretary of Commerce is the only authority the law recognizes. Since as commenter Laird points out, the Constitution did not place the census function in Article II - the Executive branch but in Article I - the Legislative branch, it is not at all within the President’s reach unless the legislature places it there.

I think that interpretation is supported by phrasing such as this taken from Subchapter 1 section 9 “No department, bureau, agency, officer, or employee of the Government, except the Secretary in carrying out the purposes of this title, shall …”

The Secretary of Commerce does not even report his findings to the President, but rather is instructed to ‘publish’ them. It looks quite clear to me that any incursion by the White House after those two Senate approved appointments is clearly against the law.

500 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:18:14pm

re: #462 doppelganglander

Any sane judge would throw this out immediately, but there seems to be a shortage of sane judges. For starters, they were trespassing. Second, they have no proof that the property owner was menacing them or pointing the gun (which I am quite sure he owned legally). Third, the Border Patrol has known for 10 years that the property has become the illegal alien superhighway, so the owner clearly knew what was going on and was not overreacting.

I would expect, in the unlikely event this goes to trial, the plaintiffs’ attorney would try to get a jury heavy with Hispanics, expecting sympathy. I also think he’d be pretty surprised by how Hispanic American citizens feel about illegals.

How legal Hispanic immigrants feel about the illegal ones is closely related to, and significantly more heated, than how someone feels about a line jumper at Disneyland.

501 Racer X  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:18:27pm

re: #454 MandyManners

My unicorn arrived! I’m having a marvelous day!

My Unicorn just pooped a pile of Rainbow Skittles.

502 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:18:38pm

BBIAW

503 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:18:48pm
504 doppelganglander  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:19:19pm

re: #476 Rancher

Founded in 1968 in San Antonio, Texas, the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund (MALDEF) is the leading nonprofit Latino litigation, advocacy and educational outreach institution in the United States.
MALDEF’s mission is to foster sound public policies, laws and programs to safeguard the civil rights of the 45 million Latinos living in the United States and to empower the Latino community to fully participate in our society.

These people do not live in the United States. This group’s true agenda should be obvious.

505 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:19:24pm
506 J.S.  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:19:27pm

I think that the criminalization of speech is particularly problematic…it really does create a double bind…sooo, let’s say the perp of alleged “hate speech” gets the book thrown at him — well, you’ve then created a martyr for “the cause.” But, on the other hand, if the perp is found “not guilty”, what happens then? Well, that will be interpreted as “He was justified, justified I tell you, in his hatred”, etc. It’s a no-win situation…a lose/lose.

507 subsailor68  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:19:35pm

re: #476 Rancher

Founded in 1968 in San Antonio, Texas, the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund (MALDEF) is the leading nonprofit Latino litigation, advocacy and educational outreach institution in the United States.
MALDEF’s mission is to foster sound public policies, laws and programs to safeguard the civil rights of the 45 million Latinos living in the United States and to empower the Latino community to fully participate in our society.

Cool! Thanks for that. Don’t see anywhere in that mission statement about illegals. And San Antonio’s only about 60 miles from me. Crap.

508 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:19:46pm
509 Truck Monkey  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:19:47pm

re: #458 A Kiwi Infidel

South Australia Fire update.

173 confirmed dead, many more unaccounted for, 24 blazes still out of control, 750 homes destroyed, over 330,000 hectares burned. Not over by a long way.

That is awful. I will be praying for Australia. Any word on how many were intentionally set?

510 jcm  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:19:49pm

re: #498 Rancher

Just some friendly advice, holding anyone at gunpoint, legal or otherwise, is a risky proposition, it can easily be considered kidnapping.

Varies by state law.
Know your local laws if you choose to arm yourself for self defense.

511 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:19:53pm

re: #489 J.D.

Perfect!

Had a Mexican on the concrete crew and he’s all torn up…wife has left him…he says, “She had a Mexican, but she wants a Guatemalan!”

You might be able to get him to crack a smile by noting that in making her choice, she went “de Guatemala a Guatepeor”.

512 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:19:55pm

re: #503 MandyManners

I corrected myself right after I posted. I wonder how much federal money it gets.


Sorry quick reply before I go.

No federal money, but I’ll wager there is oil money

513 Max Darkside  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:20:23pm

re: #481 Kosh’s Shadow

Cartoon about the stimulus bill

Thanks, I went through the gallery and had a needed good laugh. I like the one where Blago is trying to sell his place in line in the unemployment office. haahahah…..

514 LGoPs  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:20:56pm

re: #470 jcm

The census is outlined in Article I The Legislative Branch.

The power of the census is not in Article II The Executive Branch.

Blatant unconstitutional power grab.

well then the Republicans need to start a lawsuit immediately. Start using the liberals chief weapon….litigation…….

515 code red 21  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:22:01pm

I don’t believe that anyone should go to jail for what they say, only for what they do. If you can directly tie what someone says into actions that result in physical injury then they should go to jail. This fool should loose his job and not be allowed to have a job where he is representing the government but should not be prosecuted for hate speech.

516 Rancher  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:22:05pm

re: #483 MandyManners

Rush has the money to fight this nonsense.

And an army of ditto heads. The left however has Congress and the White House. This will come down to what Obama wants and right now he doesn’t want to bankrupt AM radio.

517 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:22:11pm

re: #505 Iron Fist

I’m so there with you. Miguel in Mexico and I had a polite discussion about minefields a year, year and a half ago. hope he’s doing alright.

There is absolutely no reason we need minefields, ferpetessake.

Fence in at least key areas, beefed up border patrols, and probably most importantly, rational laws. Make it,via law, a losing proposition to immigrate illegally.

518 justabill  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:22:22pm

re: #293 Walter L. Newton

It would be like someone saying “go kill all ducks.” That’s something that inspires a criminal act.

Someone saying “fuck all parrots” is not breaking any law, because they are not suggest something that would break a law, although I know a number of parrots who would be bothered by this.


I beg to differ, most nations have laws against bestiality. The above quote suggests, albeit impractically for of us, an illegal activity…

519 Eowyn2  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:22:25pm

There’s hate speech and there’s hate speech.

When a man (ignorant and anti-semetic) is in a private club and espouses his stupidity, that isnt the big ‘throw the book at’ kind of hate speech.

When a group of like minded/rapacious/jihadi loving Muslims gather together to chant ‘behead all infidels’, ‘Death to Israel,’ the book should be thrown at them.

I’m surprised someone didnt clean his clock in the gym.

520 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:22:27pm

re: #509 Truck Monkey

That is awful. I will be praying for Australia. Any word on how many were intentionally set?


At least two, the whole area has been declared a crime scene.

521 tfc3rid  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:22:34pm

re: #490 lawhawk

It kills me to admit that Jose Canseco, of all people, has been 100% accurate on ALL of this…

522 DaddyG  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:22:47pm

re: #488 MandyManners

I wonder if ACORN employees will get PermenanT jobs taking manipulating the Census.

There you go.

523 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:23:01pm

Right, now, must go.

524 soxfan4life  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:23:02pm

re: #514 LGoPs

well then the Republicans need to start a lawsuit immediately. Start using the liberals chief weapon….litigation…….

Before Obama gets a shot at putting his stamp on SCOTUS. This will be his most damaging attack on America.

525 J.D.  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:23:09pm

re: #511 Occasional Reader

You might be able to get him to crack a smile by noting that in making her choice, she went “de Guatemala a Guatepeor”.

Which translated means…?

526 Rancher  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:23:15pm

re: #510 jcm

Varies by state law.
Know your local laws if you choose to arm yourself for self defense.

Self defense is easy, holding someone is the tricky part.

527 subsailor68  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:23:22pm

re: #497 jcm

Great link! Thanks. Now my blood’s actually boiling.

528 calcajun  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:23:55pm

re: #498 Rancher

Just some friendly advice, holding anyone at gunpoint, legal or otherwise, is a risky proposition, it can easily be considered kidnapping.

Not to mention the fact that someone in that crew might be armed and a might faster than you. Lots of bad things can happen real fast in a situation like that.

529 doppelganglander  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:23:59pm

re: #482 LGoPs

I think this si more of the intentional erosion and blurring of what it means to be a US citizen. Liberals woudl like to confer those rights on everyone in the world, including Islamic terrorists……

I would love for everyone in the world to live under a U.S.-style Constitution and have all the civil rights we enjoy. But that is not for us, liberals or anyone else to confer. Let them fight and die for them themselves, in their own countries and against their own despotic leaders, just as Americans have done. Freedom isn’t free.

530 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:24:03pm

re: #525 J.D.

Which translated means…?

“From Guate-bad, to Guate-worse.”

531 yma o hyd  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:24:09pm

re: #509 Truck Monkey

That is awful. I will be praying for Australia. Any word on how many were intentionally set?

No, not yet, but apparently there is evidence that some were re-lit after the fire brigade had put them out.

Its so utterly shocking, I have no words.

news.bbc.co.uk

532 calcajun  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:24:44pm

re: #518 justabill

I beg to differ, most nations have laws against bestiality. The above quote suggests, albeit impractically for of us, an illegal activity…

OK— Law & Order; Thought Police.

533 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:26:05pm

re: #497 jcm

“…has resulted in a complete lack of legal recognition of millions of immigrants who are the backbone of the U.S. economy…”

I always love this line. As if the world’s largest, most advanced economy is fundamentally based on people picking asparagus for six bucks an hour.

534 debutaunt  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:26:16pm

re: #14 Killgore Trout

7 years? Wow.

Our friends in Canada got off lightly!

535 tradewind  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:26:39pm

re: #488 MandyManners

Probably. And they’ll be paid per homeless/illegal they add to the rolls.

536 jcm  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:26:40pm

re: #514 LGoPs

well then the Republicans need to start a lawsuit immediately. Start using the liberals chief weapon….litigation…….

Absolutely.

537 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:26:47pm

re: #531 yma o hyd

No, not yet, but apparently there is evidence that some were re-lit after the fire brigade had put them out.

Its so utterly shocking, I have no words.

[Link: news.bbc.co.uk…]

Frankly, I’ve been wondering when the terrorists might start doing that on a widespread scale. The damage to the economy could be significant.

538 lookingup  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:27:19pm

IMHO, words only express an idea. In and of themselves they have no power. “sticks and stones my break my bones but words will never hurt me” comes from a wiser time. You may be insulted but there is no physical harm. Ideas have no power until someone acts on them.

Hate speech is a double edge sword. Hate speech can be defined by an all knowing and all powerful gov’t that has the common sense of a 5 year old.

So I say the words were awful, and express an awful idea. But unless someone acts on it, it is just disgusting.

It is morally bankrupt to start down the road that puts stupid people in jail. This road has potholes that good ideas go to die in.

So in my opinion it is way worse to abridge free speech.

539 tradewind  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:27:34pm

re: #531 yma o hyd

Sounds suspiciously like a French export…. le car-b-cue.

540 paybacktime  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:28:29pm

It’s like Mel Gibson has a twin in the uk.

541 SasquatchOnSteroids  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:28:37pm

4 US soldiers killed by suicide car bomb in Iraq

BAGHDAD – A suicide car bomber struck a U.S. patrol on Monday, killing four American soldiers and an interpreter in the northern city of Mosul, the military said. It was the deadliest single attack against U.S. forces in more than nine months.

Prayers for the families.

542 opnion  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:28:59pm

re: #482 LGoPs

In my untrained legal opinion this case confuses civil rights and human rights.
The illegals, at the very most, might and I emphasize the word might have a human rights claim but under no circumstances a civil rights claim. Civil rights accrue to US citizens, not to illegal trespassers.

And if they want to push human rights then go ahead and push it in an international court…..lotsa luck getting the American citizen to respond.

I think this si more of the intentional erosion and blurring of what it means to be a US citizen. Liberals woudl like to confer those rights on everyone in the world, including Islamic terrorists……

Well said.

543 Cygnus  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:29:12pm

re: #449 Kosh’s Shadow

Swallow some aspirin, then.

And sparrow some for me.

544 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:30:00pm

Just wondering…. Do these hate speech laws protect Smurfs?

I ask because there’s this obsessed man with a cat, and I know he’s engaged in a lot of anti-Smurfist talk.

545 Pullus Iulius  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:30:03pm

I’m not sure which is more disgusting — this antisemitic rant by a British diplomat, or the fact that in Britain you can be imprisoned for seven years because you said some words.
Just my two cents - Prick anti-semites have always been out there. Some centuries more than others. Screw ‘em. Criminalization of thought, on the other hand, is a clear, present and emergent danger. I’m glad we have a copy of the Magna Carta here in the States, because the Brits seem to be pissing on the original.

546 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:30:11pm
547 Dustyvet  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:30:29pm

New Head Of Homeland Security?


Image: AGMS809.jpg

548 wolfie  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:30:35pm

re: #517 Occasional Reader

There is absolutely no reason we need minefields, ferpetessake.

Fence in at least key areas, beefed up border patrols, and probably most importantly, rational laws. Make it,via law, a losing proposition to immigrate illegally.

Above all, make it a losing proposition to HIRE illegals.

549 J.D.  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:31:22pm

re: #530 Occasional Reader

I was going to guess something along the lines of out of the frying pan into the fire.

550 LGoPs  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:32:01pm

re: #544 Sharmuta

Just wondering…. Do these hate speech laws protect Smurfs?

I ask because there’s this obsessed man with a cat, and I know he’s engaged in a lot of anti-Smurfist talk.

I’m not a lawyer but I think there are some blue laws out there that might also be used to your advantage……..?

:)

551 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:32:28pm

re: #541 SasquatchOnSteroids

4 US soldiers killed by suicide car bomb in Iraq


Prayers for the families.

We owe them our gratitude.

And, from your link:

The U.S. military has described Mosul as the last urban stronghold of al-Qaida in Iraq.

One last rats’ nest to clean out.

Get some.

552 lookingup  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:32:31pm

re: #469 MandyManners

They’re claiming emotional distress.

Tough noogies: they should not have been there in the first place.

The border patrol have guns and I’m sure dogs too. I think they are making up the duress shit for a chance to stay here on someone else’s dime. Damn lawyer is trying to make a dime too.

553 Spiritualized  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:32:34pm

re: #519 Eowyn2

There’s hate speech and there’s hate speech.

When a man (ignorant and anti-semetic) is in a private club and espouses his stupidity, that isnt the big ‘throw the book at’ kind of hate speech.

When a group of like minded/rapacious/jihadi loving Muslims gather together to chant ‘behead all infidels’, ‘Death to Israel,’ the book should be thrown at them.

I’m surprised someone didnt clean his clock in the gym.

I’m surprised someone complained, I’m surprised people in the gym didn’t give him a standing ovation. Thanks to al-BBC, al-Guardian and al-Independent, many Brits think like this “expert.” I’m sure there’s a few people defending him in the comments section of the articile.

554 yma o hyd  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:32:35pm

re: #537 CyanSnowHawk

Frankly, I’ve been wondering when the terrorists might start doing that on a widespread scale. The damage to the economy could be significant.

I think this sort of fire (not the arson) is fairly typical to australia. Its ecology is geared to it, many plants cannot reproduce until their seeds have been scorched and cracked by fire.
The aborigines utilised this and did start controlled wildfires long befoe the first white settlers.

This year is exceptional because of the enormously high temperatures, 115F, iirc, and the exceptional dryness of the last years. Coupled wth scorching winds this is what you get.

The tragedy this time is that everything combined to wipe out so many townships and kill so many people.
And its not over yet.

555 gmsc  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:32:56pm

re: #544 Sharmuta

Just wondering…. Do these hate speech laws protect Smurfs?

I ask because there’s this obsessed man with a cat, and I know he’s engaged in a lot of anti-Smurfist talk.

It depends on the level of the talk. If he’s just saying things like “Keep Smurfs Off My Turf”, that’s one thing. If he’s inciting violence with talk like, “Smurf those Smurfin’ Smurfs!” that’s a whole different level.

556 jcm  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:33:20pm

Obama says 95% of folks will get tax relief.

142,000,000 employed as of Jan.
5% of 142,000,000 is 7,100,000

Share of $780,000,000,000 for each of those 7,100,000 to pay for the stimulus.
$458,823.53… +interest of course.

Ain’t share the wealth grand!
/

557 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:33:23pm

re: #546 Iron Fist

The problem is that none of those are going to happen.

It will happen a long time before the minefields do, I can guarantee that.

558 lobo91  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:33:39pm

re: #548 wolfie

Above all, make it a losing proposition to HIRE illegals.

Nice thought, but do you think that’s going to happen under the current regime in DC?

The House blocked a provision to keep illegals from getting money under the porkulus bill, even.

559 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:34:14pm
560 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:34:15pm

re: #537 CyanSnowHawk

Frankly, I’ve been wondering when the terrorists might start doing that on a widespread scale. The damage to the economy could be significant.

Extremely significant if it is done just before harvest time around here when the crops are dried out, but still standing in the fields.

561 calcajun  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:34:19pm

re: #540 paybacktime

It’s like Mel Gibson has a twin in the uk.

It’s like they go to the same church. Freaky.

562 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:34:21pm

re: #549 J.D.

I was going to guess something along the lines of out of the frying pan into the fire.

Exactly… just plays on the name “Guatemala” (since mala means “bad”, peor means “worse”.)

563 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:34:23pm

looking at laxton’s photo … he has the appearance of a little worm.

/apologies to the worms of the world

564 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:34:24pm
565 Dianna  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:34:27pm

OT:

I just bought a new travel mug from the Skippy Store.

Rule #87: If the thought of something makes me giggle for more than 15 seconds, I am to assume I am not allowed to do it.

Impose this one on your kids! My mother wishes she had.

566 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:35:12pm

re: #556 jcm

$458,823.53… +interest of course.

Hot damn! Time to pick out my new Maserati!

567 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:35:22pm
568 nyc redneck  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:35:23pm

re: #206 yma o hyd

Yep - just one correction: glaucoma is treated before anybody goes blind, the mis-treatment you’re alluding to is that for age-related macular degeneration - and yes, its true: no treatment until one eye is gone.

Same for Alzheimers: doctors are now encouraged to give an early diagnosis - trouble is, you’re only going to get the medication which might give you another year or so of nearly normal life before total onset, when there is already total onset …

yma, thank you for clearing that up abt. which disease requires the patient to go blind before they are treated.
i just wonder if the people coming up w/ these restrictions on care can see how barbaric it is.
also do they not think they too will get old someday?

569 gmsc  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:35:36pm

re: #565 Dianna

OT:

I just bought a new travel mug from the Skippy Store.

Rule #87: If the thought of something makes me giggle for more than 15 seconds, I am to assume I am not allowed to do it.

Impose this one on your kids! My mother wishes she had.

By that logic, I’m not allowed to look at your avatar.

570 J.D.  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:35:36pm

re: #562 Occasional Reader

Exactly… just plays on the name “Guatemala” (since mala means “bad”, peor means “worse”.)


Fabulous!
I may be able to speak the language after all!

571 LGoPs  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:36:25pm

re: #548 wolfie

Above all, make it a losing proposition to HIRE illegals.

Precisely. Dry up the primary thing that is drawing them here. And interestingly enough. I would be willing to bet that that would also preclude the need to deport, which many find distasteful. They would self-deport.

This is analogous to the fact that if you have an overflowing bathtub, the very first thing you do - before grabbing towels and mops and buckets - is to turn off the frigging water. If you don’t you are fighting a losing battle……..

572 Dianna  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:36:44pm

re: #569 gmsc

By that logic, I’m not allowed to look at your avatar.

After all this time?!

573 debutaunt  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:38:09pm

re: #556 jcm

Obama says 95% of folks will get tax relief.

142,000,000 employed as of Jan.
5% of 142,000,000 is 7,100,000

Share of $780,000,000,000 for each of those 7,100,000 to pay for the stimulus.
$458,823.53… +interest of course.

Ain’t share the wealth grand!
/

I just quit my job! When do I get the $458,823.53 ? Maui, here I come!

574 Kragar  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:38:25pm

re: #537 CyanSnowHawk

Frankly, I’ve been wondering when the terrorists might start doing that on a widespread scale. The damage to the economy could be significant.

Jihad forums are already calling on their members to start fires saying it is a great terror weapon.

575 gmsc  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:38:25pm

re: #572 Dianna

After all this time?!

It’s a squirrel in a suit and a fedora. What’s not to laugh at?

576 tradewind  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:38:29pm

re: #571 LGoPs

But to continue your analogy… suppose for some reason you can’t shut off the tap. To prevent water damage to the floors and walls, you would still try to mop up and bail to contain the overflow until the tap could be fixed.
That’s the situation we’re in today.

577 yma o hyd  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:38:50pm

re: #568 nyc redneck

yma, thank you for clearing that up abt. which disease requires the patient to go blind before they are treated.
i just wonder if the people coming up w/ these restrictions on care can see how barbaric it is.
also do they not think they too will get old someday?

As usual, these ‘great and good’ will always get preferential treatment, so no, they do not know what it is like.
Also, getting old has not as many fears associated with it if you’ve got ten times (at least!) the pension of normal folk, a nice big house, people to look after you well because you can pay them …

Its the usual big divide between ‘them’ and ‘us’ - which always gets larger when socialists and comunists are in government.

578 tradewind  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:39:18pm

re: #574 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Didn’t they consider that might have been a source for some of the CA wildfires?

579 DaddyG  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:40:53pm

re: #556 jcm

Obama says 95% of folks will get tax relief.

142,000,000 employed as of Jan.
5% of 142,000,000 is 7,100,000

Share of $780,000,000,000 for each of those 7,100,000 to pay for the stimulus.
$458,823.53… +interest of course.

Ain’t share the wealth grand!
/

Don’t worry - in ten years with hyper inflation the average McDonald’s fry cook will make that amount in two hours.

/Hope for spare Change!

580 tradewind  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:40:57pm

re: #553 Spiritualized

He’s a martyr by now in many UK circles.

581 Dianna  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:41:13pm

re: #575 gmsc

It’s a squirrel in a suit and a fedora. What’s not to laugh at?

True - I love my avatar.

582 Dustyvet  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:41:18pm

Obama Bumps Head Getting into Marine One


Youtube Video

583 tfc3rid  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:41:50pm

re: #582 Dustyvet

Obama Bumps Head Getting into Marine One

Youtube Video

He blames Bush…

584 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:42:36pm

re: #554 yma o hyd

I think this sort of fire (not the arson) is fairly typical to australia. Its ecology is geared to it, many plants cannot reproduce until their seeds have been scorched and cracked by fire.
The aborigines utilised this and did start controlled wildfires long befoe the first white settlers.

This year is exceptional because of the enormously high temperatures, 115F, iirc, and the exceptional dryness of the last years. Coupled wth scorching winds this is what you get.

The tragedy this time is that everything combined to wipe out so many townships and kill so many people.
And its not over yet.

It’s all about the conditions. I live in San Diego, and ‘03 and ‘07 had very large fire events. It seemed that with a minimum of planning, terrorists could easily cause lots of chaos and economic hardship.

585 DaddyG  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:42:38pm

re: #574 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Jihad forums are already calling on their members to start fires saying it is a great terror weapon.


Hey Al Zippo! Let me blow that match out for you. Hope you don’t mind a bit of collatoral splatterage.

586 gmsc  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:42:44pm

re: #198 gmsc

OT: At least 0bama didn’t try to enter Marine One through the window. However, apparently entering through the door wasn’t much better:


[Video]

re: #582 Dustyvet

Obama Bumps Head Getting into Marine One

[Video]

GMTA!

587 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:42:44pm
588 jcm  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:42:50pm

re: #575 gmsc

It’s a squirrel in a suit and a fedora. What’s not to laugh at?

Don’t laugh the squirrel carries a violin case…. an it ain’t a violin in there if you get my drift.

589 solomonpanting  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:42:56pm

re: #545 Pullus Iulius

I’m glad we have a copy of the Magna Carta here in the States

Not just a copy, but the original.

590 Ojoe  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:43:02pm
’m not sure which is more disgusting — this antisemitic rant by a British diplomat, or the fact that in Britain you can be imprisoned for seven years because you said some words.

Given the history of Europe in the last 100 years, and given that words find their actors, it is maybe a good idea that it is not OK to see some things out loud in Europe, Charles.

591 Dianna  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:43:11pm

re: #582 Dustyvet

It looked like he ducked in time to me?

Whatever. I’m sure that if he did bang his head, the press wouldn’t report it.

592 J.D.  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:43:32pm

re: #582 Dustyvet

Obama Bumps Head Getting into Marine One


Do you know…is it true he fired up Air Force One to go to Kings Mill, VA?

593 LGoPs  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:43:56pm

re: #576 tradewind

But to continue your analogy… suppose for some reason you can’t shut off the tap. To prevent water damage to the floors and walls, you would still try to mop up and bail to contain the overflow until the tap could be fixed.
That’s the situation we’re in today.

Well in this case it’s more a matter of not wanting to shut off the tap, which is the border in my analogy. Yes, of course you continue to bail but you also at some point need to question why you don’t want to control your borders……..

594 gmsc  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:44:03pm

re: #588 jcm

Don’t laugh the squirrel carries a violin case…. an it ain’t a violin in there if you get my drift.

What is in there? A teeny tiny tommy gun?

595 Joel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:44:52pm

He should not be arrested although he should definitely be fired.

596 USBeast  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:44:53pm

re: #581 Dianna

True - I love my avatar.

Hey, it is a squirrel in a suit and a fedora! I thought it was Truman Capote.

597 Dianna  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:44:53pm

re: #594 gmsc

What is in there? A teeny tiny tommy gun?

Could be.

“I’m braced, this time!”

598 the1sgjohns  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:44:54pm

I agree the diplomat should be fired but jailed. Wow thank God I live in USA. Fought a revolution and proud of it. This is why our founding fathers gave a bill of rights and one was speech and the other was to be armed to keep the first one.

599 newsjunkie_ky  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:44:57pm

re: #582 Dustyvet

Obama Bumps Head Getting into Marine One




Did I miss it, or did he again not salute?

600 jcm  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:44:58pm

re: #594 gmsc

What is in there? A teeny tiny tommy gun?

Irritate the squirrel at you own peril……….
;-P

601 buzzdroid  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:45:00pm

“Mr Laxton has worked extensively in the Middle East - he married a Muslim woman in 2000”

i cant help wondering if that’s something to do with it…

britain is truely fubared if we have such people in government.

602 MJ  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:45:06pm

Palestinians Pull Patients From Israeli Hospitals


By ETHAN BRONNER
Published: February 9, 2009
JERUSALEM — Scores of Palestinian patients being treated in Israeli hospitals, a rare bright spot of coexistence here, are being sent home because the Palestinian Authority has stopped paying for their treatment, partly in anger over the war in Gaza.

Hadassah Hospital says that for the past week no payments have come in and Palestinians whose children are being treated there have been instructed by Palestinian health officials to place them in facilities in the West Bank, Jordan or Egypt.

“Suddenly we have had 57 patients dropped from our rolls,” lamented Michael Weintraub, director of pediatric hematology, oncology and bone marrow transplantation at Hadassah. “We have been bombarded by frantic parents. This is a political decision taken on the backs of patients….
…Palestinians are not charged the higher rates of foreigners but those of Israelis, which are much lower than in the United States or Western Europe. In addition, they say, there are subsidies from foreign governments, charities and the hospital itself.”

nytimes.com

Just more child abuse….

603 Dustyvet  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:45:18pm

re: #592 J.D.

Do you know…is it true he fired up Air Force One to go to Kings Mill, VA?

No ideas sorry…:(

604 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:45:25pm
605 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:45:32pm
606 J.D.  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:45:37pm

re: #596 USBeast

Hey, it is a squirrel in a suit and a fedora! I thought it was Truman Capote.

Wait! It’s not Truman Capote?

607 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:45:43pm

re: #591 Dianna

It looked like he ducked in time to me?

Whatever. I’m sure that if he did bang his head, the press wouldn’t report it.

Actually, they are reporting it… and it’s damn trivial. It’s the sort of silly thing they’d have done with Bush a year ago. And that’s… interesting, isn’t it?

608 Kragar  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:45:59pm

re: #578 tradewind

Didn’t they consider that might have been a source for some of the CA wildfires?

It was mentioned before, but no evidence to that effect as far as I now. The fires we had in San Diego before were related to power grid or stupidity.

Posted this earler, but the original link went dead:

Islam group urges forest fire jihad

“AUSTRALIA has been singled out as a target for “forest jihad” by a group of Islamic extremists urging Muslims to deliberately light bushfires as a weapon of terror.

US intelligence channels earlier this year identified a website calling on Muslims in Australia, the US, Europe and Russia to “start forest fires”, claiming “scholars have justified chopping down and burning the infidels’ forests when they do the same to our lands”.

The website, posted by a group called the Al-Ikhlas Islamic Network, argues in Arabic that lighting fires is an effective form of terrorism justified in Islamic law under the “eye for an eye” doctrine. “

609 J.S.  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:46:05pm

re: #534 debutaunt

Our friends in Canada got off lightly!

Actually, NO…In Canada, if you are found guilty of “hate speech” (criminal trial proceedings), you can get up to 14 years. (that would be advocating genocide, for example, and violating the provisions of Canada’s Criminal Code.) (When there’s insufficient evidence for a criminal proceeding, police refuse to lay charges — then it may be shoved off onto a Human rights commission — where your “rights” as the accused are virtually non-existent, etc.)

610 Occasional Reader  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:46:33pm

re: #599 newsjunkie_ky

Did I miss it, or did he again not salute?

He salutes the flight crew as he’s walking up to the chopper (I saw the clip earlier).

611 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:46:34pm

But….jail? Really?

Note to self, try not to say bad things.

612 Dustyvet  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:46:51pm

re: #599 newsjunkie_ky

Did I miss it, or did he again not salute?

On the saluting video, I have looked at it several times. He does salute, not when he should have but he salutes.

613 gmsc  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:46:53pm

re: #600 jcm

Irritate the squirrel at you own peril……….
;-P

“They see me squirrelin’ …
They hatin’ …
Cause they all see I’m so small and furry …”
;)

614 subsailor68  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:47:16pm

re: #603 Dustyvet

No ideas sorry…:(

Yep, he took Air Force One for a “spin”.

The story

615 Joel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:47:40pm

Unfortunately that bent diplomats feelings are all too common in todays Londonistan.

616 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:47:56pm

re: #592 J.D.

Do you know…is it true he fired up Air Force One to go to Kings Mill, VA?

Does the President make that call? Does he say, “No. I want to take Air Force One.”?

617 the1sgjohns  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:48:10pm

re: #609 J.S.

Wow I did not know that. I thought Canada was a little more kinder and gentler on speech. Sheez

618 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:48:16pm
619 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:49:03pm
620 Athos  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:49:20pm

re: #358 MandyManners

WTF?

Just more proof that Newsweak, like much of the MSM, is completely clueless lost in their ideology of hope n’change.

621 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:49:26pm

re: #556 jcm

Obama says 95% of folks will get tax relief.

142,000,000 employed as of Jan.
5% of 142,000,000 is 7,100,000

Share of $780,000,000,000 for each of those 7,100,000 to pay for the stimulus.
$458,823.53… +interest of course.

Ain’t share the wealth grand!
/

780B / 7.1M is more in the range of 109,859.

/What the hell happened to simple math skills.

622 the1sgjohns  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:49:49pm

re: #618 ploome hineni

I bet you see an AP story about Israel ejecting children from their hospitals and forget to mention it is Hamas again acting the fool.

623 subsailor68  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:50:34pm

re: #619 Iron Fist

Hey, but that’s tax money he’s spending. There’s plenty more where that came from.

LOL! Although the more I think about it….

624 doppelganglander  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:51:13pm

re: #587 Iron Fist

One’s that are put up by the State, sure. But if the State doesn’t do something about this problem things inevitably are going to get worse. i already won’t do business with anyone that I know is using illegals. The problem is that if I want something done, say, like re-roofing my house, I can’t go to every man on the crew and check his papers. Hell, I don’t even know what legal papers are supposed to look like.

So I may not be able to not do business with someone who hires illegals. But I damn sure don’t have to let them turn my land into a highway.

You would think a business could make a selling point of using only legal workers. I would feel more confident if I knew my contractor went to the effort of hiring only citizens or legal immigrants, the same way I want to know that he carries insurance and follows safety procedures.

625 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:51:15pm

Rowan, eh?

That’s the third prominent British Rowan I’m aware of.

Rowan Williams thinks English law should be supplemented or replaced by sharia.

Rowan Laxton hates Jews.

The only one I can admire is Rowan Atkinson.

Here’s Atkinson telling Christians that “the Jews were right”!

Youtube Video

626 J.D.  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:51:20pm

re: #614 subsailor68

Yep, he took Air Force One for a “spin”.

The story

That’s almost 66 miles in his “spiffy” new plane.

627 Dustyvet  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:51:21pm

re: #614 subsailor68

Yep, he took Air Force One for a “spin”.

The story

Obama takes first ride on ‘spiffy’ Air Force One

SPIFFY?

I gave up that word in grade school, and I’m 61…:)

Time, tide, and the affairs of men.

*sigh*

628 LGoPs  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:51:23pm

re: #604 buzzsawmonkey

You know what’s funny, in a sad, sad way?

I could understand it if the Jew-hate of Rowan Laxton were based in some old-fashioned religious tradition such as that of the Holocaust-denying bishop Williamson. There’s precedent for that.

But it appears that Laxton—despite his marriage to a Muslim—is not himself a Muslim convert, and therefore lacks a religious basis for his hatred. It is a free-standing thing, existing, as far as we know, without external cause.

That’s the weird thing. What brings a man to such causeless hatred that he finds himself compelled to erupt in public as Laxton did?

Interesting. My memory is not 100% clear on this but I do recall from living in Saudi Arabia that according to their laws, either he, or maybe it’s his spouse, should be killed for being married to an infidel.
I remember some American contractors that married Egyptian gals there, in the Kingdom, and the Americans had to convert to Islam, either for their own health or for the womans - can’t remember which.
Either way, perhaps this Brit might reserve some of his bile for his wife’s co-religionists…….

629 the1sgjohns  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:51:55pm

re: #619 Iron Fist

Hey, but that’s tax money he’s spending. There’s plenty more where that came from.

Hope and Change. Ok so let’s review…change to do something new. And at least count…isn’t all his cabinets and advisers former CLINTONITES. To include the Grand Da’m her self. NOT seeing much CHANGE in politics there baby.

630 J.D.  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:52:11pm

re: #616 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Does the President make that call? Does he say, “No. I want to take Air Force One.”?

I would imagine he makes the call. Wouldn’t you?

631 jcm  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:52:15pm

Obama preparing to lift sanctions against Syria President Barack Obama has decided on a new U.S. ambassador to Syria and is expected to lift sanctions against a nation charged with aiding Al Qaida in Iraq and secretly building a nuclear reactor with North Korean assistance.

Diplomatic sources said Obama, in consultation with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, has asked Frederic Hof to become the first U.S. ambassador to Damascus since 2005. The sources said Hof, a member of the National Advisory Committee of the Middle East Policy Council, agreed to take the post.

632 Shiplord Kirel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:52:53pm

FWIW, from Australian blogger John Ray, economist and former member of the British Conservative Party.

There has long been a lot of antisemitism in Britain’s Foreign Office. It may not be the case in this instance but in general, it is said to be a homosexual thing. Arabs understand concealed homosexuality and concealed homosexuality is said to be common in the FO. FO people mostly come from “Public” (fee-paying) school backgrounds, where homosexuality was traditionally tolerated

633 Last Mohican  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:53:03pm

re: #604 buzzsawmonkey

That’s the weird thing. What brings a man to such causeless hatred that he finds himself compelled to erupt in public as Laxton did?

It has always seemed to me that mindless, baseless hatred of Jews is one of the most consistent and universal themes of human history. I have often wondered why it should be so, and I think there’s just no answer. For whatever reason, hating Jews is deeply ingrained in what it is to be human.

I’m also struck by the image of Laxton’s outburst. It’s one thing to be standing at a cocktail party, making some private anti-Semitic remarks to a friend without realizing that someone might overhear. But this is different. Most of us have had the experience of being in a gym, or some other public place, and seeing something on TV that irritated us. And most of us probably controlled ourselves. Just imagine how much seething, burning hatred it would take to actually erupt in a screaming anti-Semitic spasm in the middle of the gym, as Laxton did.

634 jcm  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:53:46pm

re: #621 CyanSnowHawk

780B / 7.1M is more in the range of 109,859.

/What the hell happened to simple math skills.

Fat fingers on the calculator?

635 J.D.  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:54:38pm

re: #627 Dustyvet

Obama takes first ride on ‘spiffy’ Air Force One

SPIFFY?

I gave up that word in grade school, and I’m 61…:)

Time, tide, and the affairs of men.

*sigh*

What does that tell you, grasshopper?

636 baconeatingkaffir  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:54:40pm

re: #632 Shiplord Kirel

FWIW, from Australian blogger John Ray, economist and former member of the British Conservative Party.

There has long been a lot of antisemitism in Britain’s Foreign Office. It may not be the case in this instance but in general, it is said to be a homosexual thing. Arabs understand concealed homosexuality and concealed homosexuality is said to be common in the FO. FO people mostly come from “Public” (fee-paying) school backgrounds, where homosexuality was traditionally tolerated

That is quite interesting! I have had friends who were long time teachers working the British Council. All of them told me that you have to be part of the “homosexual mafia” to become part of the British Council management.

637 Joel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:55:27pm

re: #618 ploome hineni

they have a right to treat their chidren anyway they want

can you imagine if these people were to tell us how to behave and bring up our children?r

You know what? Let the Israelis treat people who do not hate them. Let the Arabs go to hospitals in Cairo.

638 subsailor68  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:55:35pm

re: #627 Dustyvet

Obama takes first ride on ‘spiffy’ Air Force One

SPIFFY?

I gave up that word in grade school, and I’m 61…:)

Time, tide, and the affairs of men.

*sigh*

LOL! Yeah, caught that “spiffy” reference did ya?

639 nikis-knight  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:55:45pm

re: #153 Rexatosis

Re: 103 Creeping Eruption

That is one of the biggest problems in Western Foreign Services, the bureaucratic institutions have tolerated the process of “going native” for years and as such now have become far too suseptible to supporting the “natives’” policy desires rather than their own country’s interests. I would argue Amb. Wilson and his wife’s actions vis-a-vis the Bush administrations policies were a direct result of Wilson’s “going native” (my interpretation) during the first Gulf War (see the various Bush I accounts of the war).

There was a story I read or heard somewhere. Ronald Reagan took a new diplomat to a mp after appointing him and asked, “Show me the country you serve.” Said diplomat points to the country he will soon fly to, but is corrected “No, you serve the United States of America. Don’t forget that.”

640 jcm  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:55:52pm

re: #631 jcm

Let’s try that again…..

Obama preparing to lift sanctions against Syria

President Barack Obama has decided on a new U.S. ambassador
to Syria and is expected to lift sanctions against a nation charged with aiding Al Qaida in Iraq and secretly building a nuclear reactor with North Korean assistance. ShareThis

Diplomatic sources said Obama, in consultation with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, has asked Frederic Hof to become the first U.S. ambassador to Damascus since 2005. The sources said Hof, a member of the National Advisory Committee of the Middle East Policy Council, agreed to take the post.

Obama’s OK Of Plane Deal Signals Thaw With Syria

U.S. diplomats based in Damascus were not available to comment, but President Assad made it clear on several occasions that “dialogue with Washington has started in a serious manner through personalities who are close to the administration and who were dispatched by the administration.”

Two weeks ago, President Obama dispatched a congressional delegation to the Syrian capital, headed by Rep. Adam Smith, D-Wa., a senior member of the House Armed Services Committee, to discuss with leaders here the best way to further ties between the two countries.


Seems like Obama is extending the hand, before the fist is unclenched.

641 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:56:31pm

Sorry folks! Here’s a much clearer version of Rowan Atkinson’s “Welcome to Hell” sketch:

Youtube Video

642 abolitionist  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:57:14pm

re: #291 CyanSnowHawk

No wonder he understood the …

/Perhaps I better not.

I’ll venture to say, Lawrence was a pioneer of backchannel diplomacy.

643 LGoPs  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:58:08pm

re: #633 Last Mohican

It has always seemed to me that mindless, baseless hatred of Jews is one of the most consistent and universal themes of human history. I have often wondered why it should be so, and I think there’s just no answer. For whatever reason, hating Jews is deeply ingrained in what it is to be human.

.

I’ve often wondered the same and I think that perhaps it can be reduced to none other than base envy and resentment. Jews, through diligence and toil and determination, have generally been prosperous and I think this gives rise to that sort of envy based resentment and hate. Rather than being viewed as something to copy and emulate people would rather destroy it.
It’s terrible adn reprehensible and in some ways it is the same base emotions that fuel Marxism and all the good little commies…….
Just my humble opinion……

644 Dianna  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:58:12pm

re: #607 Occasional Reader

It is.

645 the1sgjohns  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 12:59:19pm

re: #641 Cato the Elder

That was funny.

646 J.D.  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:00:33pm

re: #644 Dianna

It is.

If it bleeds, it leads, so it must have bled, wouldn’t you say?

647 calcajun  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:00:51pm

re: #564 Iron Fist

So now you’ve upped what the illegals are doing from tresspassing to armed tresspassing with the possibility of getting into a shootout on my land because, why exactly did you say the motherfucking police were as useless as tits on a boar hog?

That shit really ain’t going to fly around here.

The “illegals” aren’t just some poor bastards out on a day hike. They usually have an escort, and they are usually armed. Worse, they might all be mules with the drug dealer providing some armed escort. The rancher is well within his right to go about his property armed. It’s just that I’ve been trained that if you ever draw down on someone, be prepared to shoot and to kill whoever you’re aiming at.

648 bombarafat  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:02:22pm

He wasn’t going on a tirade he was simply displaying his expertise in the middle east.
From the perspective of his new ROP overlords.

649 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:02:37pm
650 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:05:38pm
651 nyc redneck  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:06:30pm

re: #643 LGoPs

I’ve often wondered the same and I think that perhaps it can be reduced to none other than base envy and resentment. Jews, through diligence and toil and determination, have generally been prosperous and I think this gives rise to that sort of envy based resentment and hate. Rather than being viewed as something to copy and emulate people would rather destroy it.
It’s terrible adn reprehensible and in some ways it is the same base emotions that fuel Marxism and all the good little commies…….
Just my humble opinion……

haters are going to hate. it is easy to get away w/ hatred against jews.
what happened to those assholes in fla. who were marching w/ signs that said,’jews to the ovens”? nothing happened to them. their behavior hardly got noticed.
imagine if people marched w/ placards that said ‘moslems to the ovens’.
or a cartoon is drawn of the pedophile , or a koran is burned.
all hell breaks loose everywhere.
this is part of what we are looking at.
fear of riling the savages.

652 calcajun  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:07:08pm

re: #650 Iron Fist

Worst President ever. At this stage, it wouldn’t surprise me if the fucker had Osama bin laden over to sleep in the Lincoln bedroom. just his way of reaching out in love and kindness appeasement and surrender to our enemies.

If it’s like this in the first three weeks, just what other bits ‘o fun are coming our way?

653 the1sgjohns  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:08:03pm

re: #650 Iron Fist

Just unclench brother, just unclench….you know you just have to drink the koolaid, the one with vitamins and minerals cause the farm aid bill destroys the soil and rewards the food industry to produce toxic waste like high fructose corn syrup. Yippee…

654 docremulac  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:11:40pm

This is an easy one.

F*ck Rowan Laxton, f*ck the people who would put him in jail for saying some words but mostly, f*ck the people who would put one group in jail for saying some words while letting others go free for saying the same words, or worse. Calling for specific acts of violence should not be protected free speech but I’m not seeing that here.

That being said, the Jews or anyone else can recover from being insulted but a free society can’t endure under un-equally enforced thought-crime laws. Not that equally enforced thought crime laws are much better.

655 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:13:20pm
656 NelsFree  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:14:02pm

You know, we’ve got a problem with high unemployment in this country. If we were able to deport all the illegals, or penalize the employers into firing them, they would leave, and unemployment would drop, because Americans would take the jobs.
Don’t give me any crap about “taking jobs Americans don’t want”. Illegals are driving down wages. Once they are gone, wages will go back up.

657 abolitionist  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:16:43pm

re: #651 nyc redneck

IIRC, in that event, the “ovens” invectives were shouted aloud, not put on signs.

658 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:17:34pm
659 Dianna  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:23:47pm

re: #646 J.D.

If it bleeds, it leads, so it must have bled, wouldn’t you say?

Well, the Obama presidency is positively hemorrhaging…

660 LadyT  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:26:53pm

In Foreign Office terminology it’s called a diplomatic disease.
Or is it?

661 Eowyn2  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:27:14pm

re: #601 buzzdroid

“Mr Laxton has worked extensively in the Middle East - he married a Muslim woman in 2000”

i cant help wondering if that’s something to do with it…

britain is truely fubared if we have such people in government.


Wouldn’t you just love to find out WHICH muslima and what her dowry was?

662 nikis-knight  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:28:01pm

re: #398 gmsc

OT: A local TV show here in Vegas asked their viewers to call in with their responses to “What do you want for Valentine’s Day?”

They said that about 95% of the responses they got were variations of a desire to see the stimulus bill fail. The best version of this response was: “For Valentine’s Day, I’d like to see the stimulus bill die like a gangster in a Chicago garage.”

Some messages included requests to stop with stupid questions like this while our country’s economy is being sent down the tubes.

Vegas, huh? Wonder if any of them voted for Harry Reid?

663 Globular Cluster  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:28:40pm
I’m not sure which is more disgusting — this antisemitic rant by a British diplomat, or the fact that in Britain you can be imprisoned for seven years because you said some words.

Well put.

664 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:29:13pm
665 Osama Bin Asshat  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:29:23pm

The beauty of free speech is we all know where he stands on Israel. He shouldn’t be arrested, nor should there be laws against spouting hatred…we, as a whole can collectively hate this guy, riducule this guy, etc., only because he verbalizes his stupid comments.

666 right_wing2  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:32:15pm

Sounds like what we’ll see here before long with ‘hate speech’ laws banning words which offend.

667 badger1  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:33:02pm

And by the way:
“Frak the Cylons”

668 Perplexed  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:43:56pm
I’m not sure which is more disgusting — this antisemitic rant by a British diplomat, or the fact that in Britain you can be imprisoned for seven years because you said some words.

Got to be prison over just words. Words as repugnant as they might be are still just words. You might get soundly thrashed for being a total jerk, but the legal system should stay out of enforcing thought crimes and disgusting speech.

669 So?  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:46:08pm

I’m sure somebody CAIRs.

670 kansas  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:56:00pm

I’m not sure which is more disgusting — this antisemitic rant by a British diplomat, or the fact that in Britain you can be imprisoned for seven years because you said some words.

Well, we did leave the Brits for a reason.

671 Morganfrost  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 1:58:10pm

Well, speaking as a Jew, I’d like to see him lose his job— a nasty bigot who can’t control his own outbursts has no business: a) representing any Western democracy; or b) being in any diplomatic service. Speaking as a person who enjoys free speech, I’m appalled at the notion that he faces prosecution over his imbecilic tirade.

672 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 2:03:25pm

re: #630 J.D.

I would imagine he makes the call. Wouldn’t you?

Not really. I hope not. I would think that travel offices, Secret Service, etc schedule these types of things.

He certainly could have said, “Uh…Don’t you think that… uh… the helicopter would be uh… cheaper?”

673 leereyno  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 2:41:36pm
I’m not sure which is more disgusting — this antisemitic rant by a British diplomat, or the fact that in Britain you can be imprisoned for seven years because you said some words.

The latter, by a VERY wide margin.

This is what happens when a free people forget what freedom means and allow themselves to be disarmed, disempowered and ultimately disenfranchised.

Anti-semitism is a peccadillo compared to the tyranny of “hate speech” regulations.

674 J.S.  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 2:42:19pm

re: #664 ploome hineni

There’s an interesting chapter in “Explaining *itler” (see chapter 17, if you haven’t read it…on Steiner.)

675 LadyT  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 2:53:36pm

Is being Anti-semitic a pre-req in order to become a British diplomat, or should one become Anti-semitic in order to advance one’s career?

676 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 2:57:38pm
677 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 3:00:00pm
678 cagney  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 3:16:09pm

re: #675 LadyT

Is being Anti-semitic a pre-req in order to become a British diplomat, or should one become Anti-semitic in order to advance one’s career?

There are some things you don’t do just to get ahead. Contrary to what certain posters may think, there are a lot of us here in the UK that won’t stoop so low.

To answer your question, I think the saying ‘shite always rises to the surface’ sums it up ever so eloquently.

679 J.S.  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 3:17:51pm

re: #676 ploome hineni

Yes. (basically, the argument of Steiner goes: “the Jews inflicted ‘the torments of conscience’ onto the world.” In other words, it was thanks to the Torah and bringing the world to an understanding of what it means to have a conscience, that the Jews were never be forgiven…or as Rosenbaum suggests, it’s an “ontological blame-the-Jews” argument…i’m whitewashing much of the other details/implications…).

680 Baboon Cheeks  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 3:18:30pm

re: #677 ploome hineni

Stop being a bigot, ploome.

Yes the UK has a problem, but it’s the lefties (most of them) and the far right in the UK who hate Jews, the same kind of people can be found all over the world, including America, as a quick look at DKos, DU etc proves.

681 Joel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 4:04:17pm

A few years the archives of the British Foreign Office were opened up and there was an interesting letter in it form the British Consul in Jerusalem from September 1972. The cretin essentially applauded the Munich Olympics Massacre of the Israeli Jews. It was disgusting reading but I felt that it reflected a large viewpoint in the F.O.

http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displaystory/story_id/19554/format/print/edition_id/397/displaystory.print

682 Joel  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 4:06:55pm

This should be a better link Brit envoy showed empathy for 1972 Munich terrorists

683 Obsidiandog  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 4:08:46pm

What’s the problem, the guy’s a “Middle East Expert”, right?

//

684 ghost ryder  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 4:13:27pm

As much as I think it’s tasteless and despicable to say the things that this man is accused of saying, I think it’s more alarming that merely uttering the wrong words or phrases (without explicitly threatening anyone) can get you 7 years in the klink. We’re only a few “well intended” laws away from being in the same boat here in the US, and once the Left gets to control what you say about one topic, you can bet your bottom dollar that they will expand it any and all topics that they deem off limits.

685 wiffersnapper  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 4:26:24pm

Tolerance, it’s a beautiful thing

686 fortunate son  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 4:29:06pm

I can sort of understand the British being pro Arab and generally against the Jews 50 years ago because they were allies in WWI, Lawrence of Arabia etc. Add to that the terrorist attacks groups such as Irgun and Haganah committed just after WWII (King David Hotel bombing etc.) and I can see where they were coming from.

I don’t understand it now though. Back then the British were pro-Arab, not so much out of love for the Arabs but, more because they were true Imperialists and they believed they could dominate the Middle Eastern Arabs they viewed as primitive.

Now that the British have lost their Empire and are bleeding heart liberals and all, why would they take the side of the Islamists today? After all, the current Arab and Iranian regimes pretty much stand for everything Western Civilization is against.

Is it a holdover from their past glory years? I just don’t get it. Why are any Westerners, British or Otherwise, against the Jews now? Even lefty Jews are against the Jews. Is there a standard reason? I never got a definitive explanation.

687 Rexatosis  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 4:33:11pm

RE: #114 Buzzsawmonkey

Was speaking more of Flory’s relationship with the doctor where Flory takes what he sees as the colonials’ side on things while the doctor (a colonial) defends the Imperial Order. It is Orwell’s use of the relationship between Flory and the Doctor where Orwell really explores the nuances and contradictions in the British experience in Burma. The tragic love story is, in my opinion, probably the weakest element in the novel, however Flory’s social ostracism by the other members of the British ex-pat society in Burma is a function of what the ex-pats view as Flory’s going “native.”

As for TE Lawrence, he still completed his mission for King and Country regardless of his dress or sympathies for the Arabs.

688 Flavia  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 4:36:37pm

Why do I get the feeling that there is more to this than anyone’s letting on? Doesn’t it sound like this guy may actually be a complete lunatic, & they are therefore shuffling him away as quickly, and for as long, as they can, to cover up the fact that he held a public post while in this state?

689 Flavia  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 4:38:44pm

re: #679 J.S.

Yes. (basically, the argument of Steiner goes: “the Jews inflicted ‘the torments of conscience’ onto the world.” In other words, it was thanks to the Torah and bringing the world to an understanding of what it means to have a conscience, that the Jews were never be forgiven…or as Rosenbaum suggests, it’s an “ontological blame-the-Jews” argument…i’m whitewashing much of the other details/implications…).

This is a good encapsulation of this site:

aish.com

690 PayBackTime  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 4:40:35pm

I bet the British upon retreating from “palestine” in 1948 expected the Jews to be massacred as the were in WW2.

“Sadly” for the British, the Israelis were well armed and able to defeat their attackers.

The more I read about current UK, the more I despise it.

691 Taqiyyotomist  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 5:02:33pm

Drive-by:
I absolutely DO think that some people who say “some words” should be thrown in prison. People who call for the beheading of all who insult Islam should be thrown in prison, or, much preferrably, out of the country. People who publicly rally for a second holocaust, also, should not be allowed to live with the rest of us. Anything which is a call for the murder of innocents should not be protected speech, anywhere. The fact that it is, tells me that the West is suicidal.

692 Taqiyyotomist  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 5:09:05pm

re: #691 Taqiyyotomist

Drive-by:
I absolutely DO think that some people who say “some words” should be thrown in prison. People who call for the beheading of all who insult Islam should be thrown in prison, or, much preferrably, out of the country. People who publicly rally for a second holocaust, also, should not be allowed to live with the rest of us. Anything which is a call for the murder of innocents should not be protected speech, anywhere. The fact that it is, tells me that the West is suicidal.

And, no, “F**k (insert religion, entity, person, prophet, or political persuasion here)!” is not a call for murder, and should be protected. In fact, I say it at least once a day, regarding Liberals, Islam, Mohammed, the Quran, and the bastard who made my Mr Coffee pot, which drips down the side whenever I pour it. “F**k” does not equal, in any stretch of linguistics, “Kill” I could be wrong. The UK has some strange turns of phrase, so maybe “F**k” actually could mean “Behead” or “Murder” over there, I don’t know. Still, F**k the guy who designed my Mr. Coffee pot!

693 mindy1  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 6:30:52pm

I think what he said was wrong, and I also think going to jail for it is wrong-just fire him.

694 LieSeeker  Mon, Feb 9, 2009 8:37:28pm

He should have painted it on a smokestack instead, then he’d be protected.

695 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 10, 2009 1:21:48am
696 Right Brain  Tue, Feb 10, 2009 4:26:41am

No one should be incarcerated or fined for insulting someone else.

Its the easiest thing to claim and impossible to disprove. Finally it is a mind-crime reminiscent of Spanish Inquisition.

697 SpiritOf1683  Tue, Feb 10, 2009 1:33:34pm

re: #3 SasquatchOnSteroids

“Middle East expert”

According to guess who..


Middle East Expert - means bitter and twisted antisemite.

698 SpiritOf1683  Tue, Feb 10, 2009 1:36:21pm

re: #681 Joel

A few years the archives of the British Foreign Office were opened up and there was an interesting letter in it form the British Consul in Jerusalem from September 1972. The cretin essentially applauded the Munich Olympics Massacre of the Israeli Jews. It was disgusting reading but I felt that it reflected a large viewpoint in the F.O.

http://www.jewishsf.com/content/2-0-/module/displa ystory/story_id/19554/format/print/edition_id/397/ displaystory.print


It proves that the new lease of life for the oldest hatred in Britain is now 37 years old.

699 Zimriel  Tue, Feb 10, 2009 6:06:37pm

re: #38 avanti

Speech, even unpopular speech should almost always be protected. I hate the idea of a neo Nazi rally in A Jewish community for example, but I’m glad we have a constitution that allows even the unpopular minority to have a voice.

“In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;
…

Can we have a moritorium on this, the dumbest of all Niemoller’s quotes? “Coming for” Communists is exactly what responsible governments should do. The “Dictatorship of the Proletariat” - i.e. revolutionary terror - is Marxist scripture. You come for them first; because as 100 million spectres of Communist victims haunting the world will tell you, if you don’t then they will come for you anyway.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2023-04-04 11:11 am PDT LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal Cash.app
Recent PagesClick to refresh
The Pandemic Cost 7 Million Lives, but Talks to Prevent a Repeat Stall In late 2021, as the world reeled from the arrival of the highly contagious omicron variant of the coronavirus, representatives of almost 200 countries met - some online, some in-person in Geneva - hoping to forestall a future worldwide ...
Cheechako
Yesterday
Views: 83 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 255 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1