Thank you, sir. I will make it a point to watch the whole thing.

Just excellent..

On TV right now. PBS.

Thanks, Charles.

Though I've already seen it once, I want to watch it again, and I have a few people I want to send this link to.

Why can't the ID crowd accept the fact that maybe God set into motion things billions upon billions of years ago, stood back (so to speak) and that we are who we are based on this start via evolution.

Those mural-burners provided enough evidence that they're descended from ape-like creatures to suit me...

Hrrrmph. I don't need to see the movie; I read the book.

(Monkey Girl).

re: #5 RightLogic

Because they think Genesis and the Fall must be literal in order to justify Jesus' sacrifice.

re: #7 lostlakehiker

Hrrrmph. I don't need to see the movie; I read the book.

(Monkey Girl).

I'm reading that book right now, but I would still watch this. It's very good.

That's great..."It makes people stupid". Previous thread anyone?

re: #6 Manfred the Wonder Dog

Those mural-burners provided enough evidence that they're descended from back into ape-like creatures to suit me...

fixed. But seriously, when people turn to the destruction of other people's speech, I turn against the destroyers. I've seen the world they want to build and I don't want to live in it!

re: #5 RightLogic

Why can't the ID crowd accept the fact that maybe God set into motion things billions upon billions of years ago, stood back (so to speak) and that we are who we are based on this start via evolution.

Because then the bible would be open to broad interpretation. The nose of the camel under the tent.

re: #10 rightwinger3

That's great..."It makes people stupid". Previous thread anyone?

How did Sorge get into that video?

re: #5 RightLogic

Why can't the ID crowd accept the fact that maybe God set into motion things billions upon billions of years ago, stood back (so to speak) and that we are who we are based on this start via evolution.

Sounds a lot like deism, which most Christians reject.

However, the term "intelligent design" is the mask for a political movement, no less than "pro-choice." Both terms are intended to mis-lead the hearer.

re: #8 Sharmuta

Because they think Genesis and the Fall must be literal in order to justify Jesus' sacrifice.

Phil Collins got nothin' to do with that.

Fun(ny) fact of the day...

Over 25% of human genes are the same as a banana.

Sort of makes you feel humble...

re: #15 victor_yugo

Phil Collins got nothin' to do with that.

But Peter Gabriel did.

People who think science disproves the existence of a Creator, and those who think that there have to be holes in science for their version of a Creator, both have limited understanding of the universe and the Creator.

I am amazed at the universe G-d created, in such a way that He could still influence it without breaking any of His physical laws. From what I know of physics, quantum mechanics allows Him to direct the universe without resorting to breaking physical laws. To me, that is a true miracle, and shows how great G-d is; I do not need to limit Him due to my own lack of imagination.

Isn't the Discovery Center the proponent of ID?

re: #16 VioletTiger

Some guys would say "yeah, sounds about right."

re: #10 rightwinger3

That's great..."It makes people stupid". Previous thread anyone?

The perfect response to the complaints that we talk about it too much.

re: #19 Afrocity

Isn't the Discovery Center the proponent of ID?

Discovery Institute, and yes.

re: #5 RightLogic

Why can't the ID crowd accept the fact that maybe God set into motion things billions upon billions of years ago, stood back (so to speak) and that we are who we are based on this start via evolution.

Well that would still imply a "designer" to get the process started, which is one of the arguments that they use. I am going to choose my words very carefully on this, I have since learned from my last foray into an ID thread,

re: #22 Sharmuta

Discovery Institute, and yes.

Fixed.

re: #5 RightLogic

Why can't the ID crowd accept the fact that maybe God set into motion things billions upon billions of years ago, stood back (so to speak) and that we are who we are based on this start via evolution.

Like the Earth is a train set in God's basement that he set in motion years ago. He's upstairs watching a football game and having a beer. At half time, he's going to go downstairs again. Won't he be surprised.

re: #19 Afrocity

Isn't the Discovery Center the proponent of ID?

Or as know around these parts...
Disco Institute.
;-)

re: #12 HelloDare

Because then the bible would be open to broad interpretation. The nose of the camel under the tent.

The Bible is open to interpretation; even the Jews cannot agree on how to interpret it. Some Kabbalists have determined from the Bible that the universe is 15.5 billion years old, and life on Earth 2.5 billion; other Jews believe the universe was created 5769 years ago, such that it was already billions of years ago.
And requiring strict interpretation on an English translation, which comes from a Latin translation, which comes from a Greek translation, when we don't quite know what many of the original Hebrew words mean, requires a lot of chutzpah, I think.

re: #25 HelloDare

Like the Earth is a train set in God's basement that he set in motion years ago. He's upstairs watching a football game and having a beer. At half time, he's going to go downstairs again. Won't he be surprised.

what was it Robin Wiliam's said one time "(God) I gave you this beautiful world and you fucked it up"

re: #19 Afrocity

If you're new to this, I recommend clicking on the tags under the article. They will lead you to a wide variety of previous stories about this issue posted on LGF and there's plenty to read that will get you up to speed.

re: #15 victor_yugo

Phil Collins got nothin' to do with that.

re: #17 Dar ul Harb

But Peter Gabriel did.

Great singers, both of them. Here, have a listen:

re: #26 jcm

Or as know around these parts...
Disco Institute.
;-)

Is that because it is made up of dancing fools?

What is the Conservative position? I remember Bush thinking that it was fine to teach creationism in school alongside evolution.

Bush "part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought. You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes..."

Here's a question that's been bothering me: How could we prevent "religions" like $cientology that are really nothing but money-making scams from taking advantage of the tax exemption for churches, without discriminating against legitimate religion, even if they're wacky?

Couldn't there be a law written to prevent this kind of abuse? By, say, making it illegal to charge gobs of money for "religious initiation" and the like?

Quid dicetis, O lacerti?

re: #27 Kosh's Shadow

The Bible is open to interpretation; even the Jews cannot agree on how to interpret it. Some Kabbalists have determined from the Bible that the universe is 15.5 billion years old, and life on Earth 2.5 billion; other Jews believe the universe was created 5769 years ago, such that it was already billions of years ago.
And requiring strict interpretation on an English translation, which comes from a Latin translation, which comes from a Greek translation, when we don't quite know what many of the original Hebrew words mean, requires a lot of chutzpah, I think.

some of it was even written in ancient Aramaic

NOVA- one of the few good things left about PBS.

Little Tony had been playing outside with the other kids for a while when he came into the house and asked, 'Grandma, what's that thing called when two people sleep in the same room and one is on top of the other?'

Gramma was a little surprised, but she decided to just tell him the truth. 'It's called sexual intercourse, honey'

Little Tony just said, 'Oh, OK,' and went back outside to
Play with the other kids.

A few minutes later he came back in and said angrily,
'Grandma, it isn't called sexual intercourse. It's called Bunk Beds. And Jimmy's mom wants to talk to you!

re: #32 Afrocity

What is the Conservative position? I remember Bush thinking that it was fine to teach creationism in school alongside evolution.

Bush "part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought. You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes..."

That depends on who you ask. Some people think it's conservative to be a Biblical literalist. Most of us reject that.

Conservatives on this blog believe in limited government, fiscal responsibility and individual rights.

But that shouldn't matter. What matters is the science, and intelligent design is not science. It's not even good theology.

re: #33 Cato the Elder

Here's a question that's been bothering me: How could we prevent "religions" like $cientology that are really nothing but money-making scams from taking advantage of the tax exemption for churches, without discriminating against legitimate religion, even if they're wacky?

Couldn't there be a law written to prevent this kind of abuse? By, say, making it illegal to charge gobs of money for "religious initiation" and the like?

Quid dicetis, O lacerti?

and who would we appoint as the judge? An inpartial panel? I know Germany is trying to run them out over there, but with Scienetology, Ron Hubbard even tells what he is going to do in plain English...

re: #12 HelloDare

Because then the bible would be open to broad interpretation. The nose of the camel under the tent.

I have heard that before, and, strangely enough, I do that every time I open a bible, I look for meaning in passages I have missed before.

Belief in God does not preclude belief in Evolution.
Belief in evolution does not preclude belief in God.

I think I have seen that somewhere before.

I saw this tonight on WGBH 2 Boston. It was excellent. Simple common sense explanations of complex issues. It reminded me of the show they did explaining how Albert Einstein performed very simple "thought experiments" working on his theories.

re: #16 VioletTiger

Fun(ny) fact of the day...

Over 25% of human genes are the same as a banana.

Sort of makes you feel humble...

But, I thought bananas were proof of an Intelligent Designer.

re: #41 Neo Con since 9-11

that would explain all the slip ups some folks have...

re: #23 Marvo76

Don't get me wrong. I am a Christian (Roman Catholic) and I do believe in a God but if He didn't want man to explore, question and theorize about our surroundings then He would not have allowed us to evolve to the beings that we are. No one has all the answers as to why we are the way we are (and the meaning of life itself - Monty Python skits aside) but until someone comes up with a sound alternative theory to Darwin then, as a logical thinker, I will continue to believe in evolution but at the same time have faith that there is a higher purpose to life - no matter how we got here.

re: #39 Stonemason

I have heard that before, and, strangely enough, I do that every time I open a bible, I look for meaning in passages I have missed before.

Belief in God does not preclude belief in Evolution.
Belief in evolution does not preclude belief in God.

I think I have seen that somewhere before.

Yes, the Tao of Lao Stinky. :)

Afrocity- most LGFers are people of faith, but we have atheists and agnostics as well. Most of us subscribe to what is called Theistic evolution.

Intelligent design, on the other hand, is a mask for literal Biblical 6 day creationism. Instead of continuing to search for scientific answers, ID wants to throw up it's hands and say "God did it". That's just not science.

re: #41 Neo Con since 9-11

lol! how did you find that?

re: #43 RightLogic

there are some mysteries that are reserved for God, seems like I heard that in a sermon once...

Damn those Scientismists.

The Proper Role of Science
By Chuck Colson

Exposing Scientism
...Our task is to expose the flaws in scientific naturalism—not because we are against science but because we want it to fill its proper role as a means of investigating God’s world and alleviating suffering within ethical boundaries.

re: #43 RightLogic

Are you associated with RightKlik? Just asking.

re: #29 Sharmuta

Gracias.

I have issues that I think I am strong about. This one is new to me along with stem cell research. IE something I do not have a firm opinion on.

On instinct I feel if you teach a child one view you should teach the other. I remember when Sarah Palin began to run many liberals I knew where up in arms about her being a creationist and asked how could I support her. I am of the opinion that your religion or belief system is your business as long as it does not interfere with your job in office. I am for separation of church and state. During the debates I thought Sarah made it clear that she did not let her faith or beliefs cloud her judgment as far as her position as governor.
I was fine with that answer.

re: #36 Racer X

LOL! I'm stealing that one.

re: #16 VioletTiger

Fun(ny) fact of the day...

Over 25% of human genes are the same as a banana.

Sort of makes you feel humble...

re: #41 Neo Con since 9-11

But, I thought bananas were proof of an Intelligent Designer.

That only proves putting condoms on bananas in school may be a good idea.
//

re: #49 CynicalConservative

Are you associated with RightKlik? Just asking.

No, I think I had the "No-Left Turn" icon first but no biggy.

re: #32 Afrocity

What is the Conservative position?

The judge in the Dover case was John E. Jones III, a lifelong Republican appointed by George W. Bush, and a devout Lutheran.

And his decision completely destroyed the creationists who were trying to force their religion into the public schools of Dover.

That's the true conservative position. The people who promote creationism in public schools are trying to force their own religious beliefs on everyone else's children, and that's as far from a "conservative" position as it's possible to be.

re: #46 VioletTiger

That video is an old joke on LGF.

re: #47 Marvo76

there are some mysteries that are reserved for God...

As there should be.

re: #27 Kosh's Shadow

Because then the bible would be open to broad interpretation. The nose of the camel under the tent.

If it were open to truly broad interpretation, evolution would be okay.

re: #53 RightLogic

No, I think I had the "No-Left Turn" icon first but no biggy.

No worries, no disrespect intended.

re: #50 Afrocity

This issue shouldn't be political, but it is because some have made it that way. That's unfortunate, imo. I hope you watch this video, because it will give you most of the basics on the issue.

Most of us at LGF accept evolution. We also support the right of those that don't, but we draw the line at indoctrinating other people's kids.

re: #47 Marvo76

there are some mysteries that are reserved for God, seems like I heard that in a sermon once...

That's the very definition of "musterion": what the human mind will never comprehend, in this life or the next.

Afrocity- I saw earlier you said if you could meet a famous person it would be John McCain. If I could meet someone, it would be Judge Jones. He's a new hero of mine.

re: #50 Afrocity

That instinctive desire on the part of most Americans to be fair and let the other side have a hearing is what the Discovery Institute people are taking advantage of, when they try to elevate a collection of criticisms of evolutionary theory into the same position as the theory itself.

re: #54 Charles

Hear, hear!

re: #48 HelloDare

Damn those Scientismists.

It is fitting that the ID movement should feature one of Richard Nixon's dirty tricks men. When you want to abuse the law and your authority, you want people who've done it before. Colson and the Disco Institute deserve each other.

re: #59 Sharmuta

This issue shouldn't be political, but it is because some have made it that way. That's unfortunate, imo. I hope you watch this video, because it will give you most of the basics on the issue.

Most of us at LGF accept evolution. We also support the right of those that don't, but we draw the line at indoctrinating other people's kids.

It is so nice at the begining of these threads when those who have been here explain the position to the newbies in a kind, thoughtful, and respectful manner.
Then, well, it becomes best to lurk.

I went to catholic school most of my life. I consider my self spiritual because I pray and believe in Jesus but I don't attend formal church services. I lived in Texas for a while and everyone there was very open about religion which made me uncomfortable as a Chicagoan because I considered it private, or culturally in the city, it was not polite to bring it up.

re: #60 victor_yugo

Never heard that term before, which denominations use it?

re: #58 CynicalConservative

None taken. :-)

re: #32 Afrocity

What is the Conservative position? I remember Bush thinking that it was fine to teach creationism in school alongside evolution.

Bush "part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought. You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes..."

Its not about exposure so much as it is about indoctrination.

Science is not a religion.

The Discovery Institute is trying to blur the differences between science and religion.

if the Discovery Institute Cult can confuse enough people into thinking that science is equivalent to religion, then they can make it impossible to teach science and the scientific method in the government school system.

Once the scientific method is overthrown in the schools, they can use the government run schools to propagate religious dogma.

What they seem to fail to grasp is that once they let that camels nose under the tent, they will not be able to stop any other religion from using the government run school system to propagate their religions with the same state authority that the Discovery Institute Cult is seeking.

Babylon will reign.

re: #66 Afrocity

The Catholic Church supports evolution, and has rejected ID as unscientific and bad theology.

re: #19 Afrocity

Isn't the Discovery Center the proponent of ID?

They are one of the main proponents, yes.

Makes me wonder why they found Liberal Moonbat Seattle so congenial a home for promoting their brand of Religious Theocracy.

re: #38 Marvo76

That's the crux of it. Plenty of so-called pious people and entire churches of many different faiths have been busted for profit-making activities over the years. Right now it's pretty much the IRS that makes the determination.

re: #67 Marvo76

The ancient, ancient, ancient Greeks. Linguistic evolution "adjusted" the 'u' into a 'y' to give us the newer "mysterion".

The definition, however, has not changed. The Eastern Orthodox still use the term, with the same meaning.

re: #65 Stonemason

It's the ability to tell an honest question from someone trying to jerk us around. I trust that Afrocity just needs to be brought up to speed since she is new.

re: #32 Afrocity

What is the Conservative position? I remember Bush thinking that it was fine to teach creationism in school alongside evolution.

Bush "part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought. You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes..."

You pretty much answered your question by mentioning Bush, who frankly never will be considered a paragon of Conservative ideals or thought.

re: #74 Sharmuta

It's the ability to tell an honest question from someone trying to jerk us around. I trust that Afrocity just needs to be brought up to speed since she is new.

And I like to help.

re: #69 Syrah

It already started in CA where some text books have been "modified" to show Islam in a more favorable light. I believe they have even had Indoctrination in to how muslims worship as sort of a "social enlightenment" or culture appreciation exercise...

re: #54 Charles

So I would agree with that. That beliefs should not be forced upon anyone.

I also felt the same way when Obama indoctrination (kids chanting, etc)was taking place in public schools too. Or wearing political buttons to class when you are a K-12 teacher. Granted politics is not religion, I still feel that it is a belief system.

re: #69 Syrah

Science is not a religion.

Unless your name is Carl Sagan, or Stephen Jay Gould, or Charles Darwin, or Richard Dawkins, or or or...

The Vatican and Evolution:

The Vatican has admitted that Charles Darwin was on the right track when he claimed that Man descended from apes.

A leading official declared yesterday that Darwin’s theory of evolution was compatible with Christian faith, and could even be traced to St Augustine and St Thomas Aquinas. “In fact, what we mean by evolution is the world as created by God,” said Archbishop Gianfranco Ravasi, head of the Pontifical Council for Culture. The Vatican also dealt the final blow to speculation that Pope Benedict XVI might be prepared to endorse the theory of Intelligent Design, whose advocates credit a “higher power” for the complexities of life.

More reading on the Church's position:

[Link: blogs.telegraph.co.uk...]
[Link: www.catholicculture.org...]
[Link: www.catholic.org...]

re: #33 Cato the Elder

Here's a question that's been bothering me: How could we prevent "religions" like $cientology that are really nothing but money-making scams from taking advantage of the tax exemption for churches, without discriminating against legitimate religion, even if they're wacky?

Couldn't there be a law written to prevent this kind of abuse? By, say, making it illegal to charge gobs of money for "religious initiation" and the like?

Quid dicetis, O lacerti?

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Technically, a crafty legislator could potentially shut down any religious practice, as long as they upheld the right of the practitioner to believe.

Although, I think that is a very slippery slope.

re: #79 victor_yugo

Forget a sarc tag?

re: #81 Scion9

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Technically, a crafty legislator could potentially shut down any religious practice, as long as they upheld the right of the practitioner to believe.

Although, I think that is a very slippery slope.

What kinds of laws are there against human sacrifice?

Thank you Sharmuta. I did not know the issues involving ID. I have heard it was conservative based, then I go to Wikipedia (which is seldom accurate anyway) and it says:

Discovery Institute, a politically conservative think tank...

Well I guess that depends upon the views of the person who did the wiki entry.

re: #54 Charles

The judge in the Dover case was John E. Jones III, a lifelong Republican appointed by George W. Bush, and a devout Lutheran.

And his decision completely destroyed the creationists who were trying to force their religion into the public schools of Dover.

That's the true conservative position. The people who promote creationism in public schools are trying to force their own religious beliefs on everyone else's children, and that's as far from a "conservative" position as it's possible to be.

Yes. And seems to me the proper, the really conservative position would be to oppose organized prayer in schools. There are a few ministers who hold this position, not many.

Why would you want government at a local or national level mixed up in religion? It's not like you can't privately pray in school. You can. Nobody is stopping you. I never understood the religious right's position on this.

Would the religious right be for organized prayer in school if 3/4 of the children bowed down and faced Mecca?

re: #69 Syrah

I see the Disco folks wanting their own brand of Theocracy just as restrictive and repressive as exists in Saudi Arabia or Iran. Once they get the reins of power they won't let anyone else even close.

re: #32 Afrocity

What is the Conservative position? I remember Bush thinking that it was fine to teach creationism in school alongside evolution.

Bush "part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought. You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes..."

First as a Christian I'm offended by the DI use of religion for seeking political power. Google "Wedge Document" or "Wedge Strategy" it's not a biblical way to spread the gospel.

Intelligent Design cannot be science. It proposes an intelligent agent as a the cause of speciation. That's metaphysics, and out side the realm of science. There is no why to propose a hypothesis to test the existence of such a designer.

The conservative position is one of liberty, you are free to believe what you choose. However you are not permitted to use governmental agencies to push beliefs on everyone.

The problem with teaching "both sides" is there are more than two sides. Once a religious creation story is allowed in public schools, all creation stories will ask for equal time.

In a perfect world, where critical thinking skills are well established, in a comparative religion class presenting the various creation stories may be appropriate.

re: #82 Sharmuta

Forget a sarc tag?

Why? Do you take exception to any of those names? IIRC, they're all "scientists" who have claimed their observations precluded a belief in God.

re: #84 Afrocity

Thank you Sharmuta. I did not know the issues involving ID. I have heard it was conservative based, then I go to Wikipedia (which is seldom accurate anyway) and it says:

Discovery Institute, a politically conservative think tank...

Well I guess that depends upon the views of the person who did the wiki entry.

Wiki generally is edited by people centered around Daily Kos/HuffPo rhetoric.

Any gamey buttocks yet?

re: #77 Marvo76

It already started in CA where some text books have been "modified" to show Islam in a more favorable light. I believe they have even had Indoctrination in to how muslims worship as sort of a "social enlightenment" or culture appreciation exercise...

It is a battle with many fronts. Clowns to the left of us, and Jokers to the right.

And here we are, stuck in the middle again.

re: #79 victor_yugo

Unless your name is Carl Sagan, or Stephen Jay Gould, or Charles Darwin, or Richard Dawkins, or or or...

Yeah, those guys were and are Scientismerizers./

re: #90 MandyManners

Any gamey buttocks yet?

Last thread, three met Stinky in a dark alley.

re: #90 MandyManners

Any gamey buttocks yet?

They are still stuck in the Huckster thread, so far. (please, please, please, please!)

re: #93 jcm

"It is dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue-mont"

re: #95 esch

"It is dark. You are likely to be eaten by a grue-mont"

Light lamp.

re: #96 Walter L. Newton

Light lamp.

You need batteries.

re: #28 Marvo76

what was it Robin Wiliam's said one time "(God) I gave you this beautiful world and you fucked it up"

I think it was Christopher Hitchens.

re: #84 Afrocity

Indeed. You've joined us at a time there is an internal struggle for the ideals of the party. I'm a spiritual woman, thinking about converting to Catholicism, but I'm not a conservative because of my religious faith. I'm a conservative because of my ideological positions, and they don't match the democrats. I became republican in 1993.

Now- I think people in our party who think one has to be a Christian fundamentalist has a poor grasp on conservatism. Do not listen to them is my advice. If you think government should have a limited role, should spend tax payer money wisely, and sure not infringe on the rights of individuals, then welcome to the right! You and I have a similar view- I think faith is a private matter between a person and God. Or no God, if that's what they think- it's their business.

But ID proponents think it's their business to push faith, their idea of faith, onto other peoples' children. That's not conservative in any way.

re: #89 FurryOldGuyJeans

Wiki generally is edited by people centered around Daily Kos/HuffPo rhetoric.

Is that true or are you pulling my leg? I thought anyone could comment on wiki but you had to go through some sort of "vetting process". Though that will explain why i find most Wiki entries to be biased.

"Intelligent design...it makes people stupid"

Such an awesome quote less than two minutes into the video :)

re: #97 FurryOldGuyJeans

You need batteries.

I've got a spare set of of C-Cells for my Mag-Light.

re: #86 FurryOldGuyJeans

I see the Disco folks wanting their own brand of Theocracy just as restrictive and repressive as exists in Saudi Arabia or Iran. Once they get the reins of power they won't let anyone else even close.

furry, I don't know if you are as old as I am, I think you are, do you remember how it was when we started school? Heck we still had school prayers in first and second grade, and could sing Christmas carols ( the real ones) up untill my 6th grade year. Untill the 20's I believe, a bible was still used as a class room tool and histroy as well as grammmar was taught from it in public school settings. Now a Kid can't even thank the lord that he got thru 12 years at his own graduation. Some of these folks want the pendulum to swing a bit the other way again, cept the camel(nope not gonna use it) the genie is outa the bottle. Most are now hearing that the constitution means freedom FROM religion instead of OF

re: #100 Afrocity

Is that true or are you pulling my leg? I thought anyone could comment on wiki but you had to go through some sort of "vetting process". Though that will explain why i find most Wiki entries to be biased.

It depends on the article, and even that process is now up for debate.

Some articles do require higher privileges to edit. The review process may soon become S.O.P. for all, or nearly all, Wikipedia articles.

re: #86 FurryOldGuyJeans

I see the Disco folks wanting their own brand of Theocracy just as restrictive and repressive as exists in Saudi Arabia or Iran. Once they get the reins of power they won't let anyone else even close.

This is one of the primary problems that you find with wannabe revolutionaries and their fellow travelers. They all seem to think that they are fated to end up as the leaders in the new order when in fact, they are all too likely to find themselves being paraded out to the square with the guillotine with no one left to speak for them save a later day version of Madame Thérèse Defarge.

They are always so surprised when they realize too late that the wicker basket is really just there to catch their head.

re: #83 victor_yugo

What kinds of laws are there against human sacrifice?

Yes. Crafty bit of legislation that.

/

re: #100 Afrocity

Here is a non wiki link to the Wedge Document.

However- I've read enough, and others have to, that I can say with a lot of confidence that most of the wiki articles on ID and it's tenants and proponents are well researched and accurate.

re: #100 Afrocity

Is that true or are you pulling my leg? I thought anyone could comment on wiki but you had to go through some sort of "vetting process". Though that will explain why i find most Wiki entries to be biased.

A memorable thread followed the discovery that Wiki describe Condi Rice as a "Concert Penist."

Hello Night Lizards! It's nearly Hot in Near Iowa!

Well, it's been a day! Huckabee and all!

I tried to watch the Senate on C-SPAN today, but I think they must have been in committee most of the time because I fell asleep to the classical music.

How are you-all and are we still OnT?

re: #100 Afrocity

Is that true or are you pulling my leg? I thought anyone could comment on wiki but you had to go through some sort of "vetting process". Though that will explain why i find most Wiki entries to be biased.

I wish I could be pulling your leg. ;)

I wish it wasn't true, but from the general tone of the articles it shows that the bulk of the articles are written and edited by people who's political philosophy is on the far left.

re: #90 MandyManners

I don't care what the calender says, it has to be a full moon. We've had a lot of nuts here tonight and the Craziest Blog on the Interwebz has a few new conspiracy theories; The stimulus plan is just a smokescreen for "President Hussien" to steal all the guns and there's a secret hidden provision to create an army of domestic leftist sympathizers larger than the US military.

re: #100 Afrocity

Is that true or are you pulling my leg? I thought anyone could comment on wiki but you had to go through some sort of "vetting process". Though that will explain why i find most Wiki entries to be biased.

It's true, anyone can contribute to wiki. It would be impossible for every page to be vetted.

re: #111 Killgore Trout

It was last night. But I've noticed the nuts come out usually the night after a full moon. It's like a delayed reaction, or something.

re: #110 FurryOldGuyJeans

I wish I could be pulling your leg. ;)

I wish it wasn't true, but from the general tone of the articles it shows that the bulk of the articles are written and edited by people who's political philosophy is on the far left.

doing the work the rest of us don't have time to do --we have jobs.

Here's the real question... Afrocity- how much do you know about evolution?

re: #109 ggt

Hello Night Lizards! It's nearly Hot in Near Iowa!

Well, it's been a day! Huckabee and all!

I tried to watch the Senate on C-SPAN today, but I think they must have been in committee most of the time because I fell asleep to the classical music.

How are you-all and are we still OnT?

Hmmm. Wasn't global warming supposed to end, ocean levels fall, and peace come over the land once The One™ became president?

I am watching this on the tube now, but the reception goes in and out. I suspect it's sabotage by the Disco Dewds.
/

Oh yeah, and Ken Miller is a bad ass.

re: #113 Sharmuta

It was last night. But I've noticed the nuts come out usually the night after a full moon. It's like a delayed reaction, or something.

That's how the word Lunacy came into being.

re: #111 Killgore Trout

...there's a secret hidden provision to create an army of domestic leftist sympathizers larger than the US military.

Not sure how there could be a "secret hidden provision" in a document. It's either there or it isn't.

People are always talking about "secret Executive Orders," as well. If you can't show it to anyone because it's secret, what good is it?

re: #99 Sharmuta

Indeed. You've joined us at a time there is an internal struggle for the ideals of the party. I'm a spiritual woman, thinking about converting to Catholicism, but I'm not a conservative because of my religious faith. I'm a conservative because of my ideological positions, and they don't match the democrats. I became republican in 1993.

Now- I think people in our party who think one has to be a Christian fundamentalist has a poor grasp on conservatism. Do not listen to them is my advice. If you think government should have a limited role, should spend tax payer money wisely, and sure not infringe on the rights of individuals, then welcome to the right! You and I have a similar view- I think faith is a private matter between a person and God. Or no God, if that's what they think- it's their business.

But ID proponents think it's their business to push faith, their idea of faith, onto other peoples' children. That's not conservative in any way.

(smiling) Thanks Sharmuta.

This snippet from your quote: If you think government should have a limited role, should spend tax payer money wisely, and sure not infringe on the rights of individuals, then welcome to the right!

Really hit home. Those are my views. I did have a misconception of conservatives from my 10 year stint in Texas. Last year I recognized that not all conservatives are religious.

re: #100 Afrocity

Is that true or are you pulling my leg? I thought anyone could comment on wiki but you had to go through some sort of "vetting process". Though that will explain why i find most Wiki entries to be biased.

Wikipedia editors are just like any other internet community, and they have political leanings. Overall the internet tends to be more left leaning. You can see this on more 'bohemian', semi to non-moderated forums as well, such as YouTube, or metacritic.

There was a story years ago though, that something like 40% of all wikipedia edits originate from IPs that map to 'corporations' as well. I like having it as a resource for pop culture, or any article that is easily fact checkable elsewhere on the internet. For anything controversial, or subject to analysis, it is definitely an enter at your own risk resource.

re: #115 Sharmuta

Here's the real question... Afrocity- how much do you know about evolution?

Psst... Sharm...
We are we going to tell her about the turtles?
;-P

re: #113 Sharmuta

It was last night. But I've noticed the nuts come out usually the night after a full moon. It's like a delayed reaction, or something.

I have a feeling, call it a hunch if you will, that Thursday is going to be fun here. A real whack a troll marathon.

I have lost my Al Pastor recipe. Dang and blast.

re: #116 BryanS

Hmmm. Wasn't global warming supposed to end, ocean levels fall, and peace come over the land once The One™ became president?

He still has to clean up bush's debris first before the trumpets sound from above///

re: #116 BryanS

Hmmm. Wasn't global warming supposed to end, ocean levels fall, and peace come over the land once The One™ became president?

It's a conundrum!

(wrapped in an enigma)

re: #116 BryanS

Hmmm. Wasn't global warming supposed to end, ocean levels fall, and peace come over the land once The One™ became president?

I don't know about peace or the oceans, but global warming has definitely ended here in Denver. It's snowing its ass off.

re: #120 Afrocity

Last year I recognized that not all conservatives are religious.

Good girl!

re: #120 Afrocity

(smiling) Thanks Sharmuta.

This snippet from your quote: If you think government should have a limited role, should spend tax payer money wisely, and sure not infringe on the rights of individuals, then welcome to the right!

Really hit home. Those are my views. I did have a misconception of conservatives from my 10 year stint in Texas. Last year I recognized that not all conservatives are religious.

I think a lot more people would consider themselves conservative if not for the whacky religious element identifying themselves as such.

Do apes have bigger ears than chimpanzees?
Does it Make a difference?

re: #122 JCM

I was leaving that for you and Syrah! Far be it from me to spoil you two's fun. ;P

re: #128 ggt

I think a lot more people would consider themselves conservative if not for the whacky religious element identifying themselves as such.

DING DING DING!

re: #120 Afrocity

Last year I recognized that not all conservatives are religious.

And vice-versa. In fact, many liberal busybodies try to mask their intentions under "religion."

re: #119 lobo91

It's a section of the bill regarding government contractors. What makes it "secret" is the imaginary interpretation.

re: #99 Sharmuta

Now- I think people in our party who think one has to be a Christian fundamentalist has a poor grasp on conservatism. Do not listen to them is my advice. If you think government should have a limited role, should spend tax payer money wisely, and sure not infringe on the rights of individuals, then welcome to the right! You and I have a similar view- I think faith is a private matter between a person and God. Or no God, if that's what they think- it's their business.

Far too many Republicans believe the former rather than the latter. I believe this excludes many potential Republican conservatives. Such as myself.

Why should I support those who despise me slightly less than the D's?

re: #120 Afrocity

(smiling) Thanks Sharmuta.

This snippet from your quote: If you think government should have a limited role, should spend tax payer money wisely, and sure not infringe on the rights of individuals, then welcome to the right!

Really hit home. Those are my views. I did have a misconception of conservatives from my 10 year stint in Texas. Last year I recognized that not all conservatives are religious.

All true Conservatives are religious, even the Agnostics and Atheists. They just are not the FMSM stereotypical Bible Thumper.

re: #120 Afrocity

(smiling) Thanks Sharmuta.

This snippet from your quote: If you think government should have a limited role, should spend tax payer money wisely, and sure not infringe on the rights of individuals, then welcome to the right!

Really hit home. Those are my views. I did have a misconception of conservatives from my 10 year stint in Texas. Last year I recognized that not all conservatives are religious.

And not all right wing religious gun nut conservative support creationism!

re: #115 Sharmuta

Here's the real question... Afrocity- how much do you know about evolution?

Sharmuta,

I will not lie. Not much.
I know history like a fox but this is something I am out of my depth on.
When Palin was bashed on her views by the left, I became defensive but realized I could not defend her because I don't have a grasp of the argument. I am the same on stem cell research.

re: #130 Sharmuta

I was leaving that for you and Syrah! Far be it from me to spoil you two's fun. ;P

LOL!

re: #126 lobo91

I don't know about peace or the oceans, but global warming has definitely ended here in Denver. It's snowing its ass off.

Heh. Here in Wisconsin, after our unseasonably warm day today (almost didn't need a jacket) we're supposed to get snow in the next day or so.

re: #133 Killgore Trout

It's a section of the bill regarding government contractors. What makes it "secret" is the imaginary interpretation.

Ah. That explains it. I'm all out of tinfoil...

re: #129 Attaboid

Do apes have bigger ears than chimpanzees?
Does it Make a difference?

speaking of monkeys. . . did you see the new addition to the Smitsonian Zoo? Momma looks very happy.

The full article is on zooborns.com front page.

OT from Drudge:

'Painful Lessons': Abuse At Chicago Schools
Hundreds Of Kids Beaten, Whipped, Even Choked By Teachers, Coaches

Treveon Martin, 10, is one of at least 818 Chicago Public School students, since 2003, to allege being battered by a teacher or other staff member.

cbs2chicago.com

Is this part of hopie or changie?

re: #122 JCM

Psst... Sharm...
We are we going to tell her about the turtles?
;-P

The initiates must first freely inquire on there own before the truth, the glory, and the majesty of the Infinite Turtle Stack can be revealed to them.

When this one is ready for enlightenment, she will ask.

re: #142 sngnsgt

OT from Drudge:

'Painful Lessons': Abuse At Chicago Schools
Hundreds Of Kids Beaten, Whipped, Even Choked By Teachers, Coaches

cbs2chicago.com

Is this part of hopie or changie?

The Chicago school chief has been moved up to Sec. Ed. by Obama.

re: #128 ggt

I think a lot more people would consider themselves conservative if not for the whacky religious element identifying themselves as such.

Hence, we have the reason the media focuses on the the religious elements of the party. That kind of focus makes it easier for liberal media to ridicule conservatives and make them seem extreme.

re: #144 JCM

The Chicago school chief has been moved up to Sec. Re-Ed. by Obama.

FTFY

re: #143 Syrah

The initiates must first freely inquire on there own before the truth, the glory, and the majesty of the Infinite Turtle Stack can be revealed to them.

When this one is ready for enlightenment, she will ask.

Does that go for the weekly Zionist check as well?

re: #144 JCM

The Chicago school chief has been moved up to Sec. Ed. by Obama.

I guess that makes it change, then.

re: #137 Afrocity

Well- another thing you will come to learn about me is I'm quick to recommend a good book or two. The best book I can recommend to help you better understand not just evolution, but ID from a scientist's perspective is Only A Theory, by Ken Miller, who is also in the video posted above, as he was an expert witness for the plaintiffs.

And don't worry- I wasn't very knowledgeable about evolution either until Charles started doing these threads, and I started looking into the science. I didn't doubt it, but I also wasn't familiar with the stunning amount of information concerning it. You strike me as having an inquisitive and intelligent mind, so I trust if you look into it, you'll come to understand it better.

re: #142 sngnsgt

Uh I wonder if it is the first time in their lives, some of these kids actually got dicipline?

"One might say, for example, that the reason the Boston Red Sox were able to come back from three games down against the New York Yankees was because god was tired of George Stienbrenner, and wanted the Red Sox to win. Where I come from, you'd be surprised at how many people think that's a perfectly reasonable explanation for what happened, and you know it might be true, but it's certainly not science."

Now there's a thought experiment.

OT: A very lucky baby...
Salma Hayek breastfeeds African baby in Sierra Leone

re: #148 lobo91

I guess that makes it change, then.

Ayers -> CAC -> Chicago Schools -> School Administrator -> Now Sec. Ed.

re: #142 sngnsgt

OT from Drudge:

'Painful Lessons': Abuse At Chicago Schools
Hundreds Of Kids Beaten, Whipped, Even Choked By Teachers, Coaches

cbs2chicago.com

Is this part of hopie or changie?

Thats nothing, I live in Chicago. Last week we had a 10 year old "hang himself" in a bathroom stall. Many feel the teacher did it accidentally but coroner ruled it a suicide (developing). Obama did nothing for Illinois. Why he was elected to POTUS baffles me.

re: #151 Yankee Division Son

PFFFT! Sports.

re: #147 FurryOldGuyJeans

Does that go for the weekly Zionist check as well?

No, that is something you get once you prove yourself to not be a troll, or at least, that was the reason given to me for the long delay before the first check gets sent out.

_{You have received your first check by now haven't you?}

re: #152 Killgore Trout

Yes, it's probably safe for work.

re: #144 JCM

The Chicago school chief has been moved up to Sec. Ed. by Obama.

Has he paid his taxes?

re: #152 Killgore Trout

NEXT!

re: #158 NJDhockeyfan

Has he paid his taxes?

Racist!

///

re: #144 JCM

The Chicago school chief has been moved up to Sec. Ed. by Obama.

Normal Chicago advancing of cronies. Weather or not the crony is competent is irrelevant. The issue is putting your friends in a position to gain power and money. So it has (not) worked in Chicago for over 100 years.

re: #158 NJDhockeyfan

Has he paid his taxes?

I seriously expect O to nominate the next nitwit he finds that actually paid their taxes for some cabinet position, qualifications be damned.

re: #149 Sharmuta

And one thing everyone is (probably) very tired about me is:

Please add that book recommendation to the BOOK CATEGORY of the Spin-off links with an Amazon.com link. It is handy for future reference AND any purchases made from the Amazon link count towards the tip jar for Charles.

BOOK CATEGORY PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT OFF.

re: #149 Sharmuta

I got $36 bucks left on my Amazon gift card...consider the book bought.
I teach graduate students, so it would be interesting to read about the pedagogical implications of the issue.

re: #157 Killgore Trout

I've always had a crush on her. She was great in Dusk Till Dawn.

re: #163 ggt

You can add the book too, you know. ;)

re: #154 Afrocity

Jeez, I still don't get it either.

Whether the weather changes or not, I will dress warmly.

re: #140 lobo91

Ah. That explains it. I'm all out of tinfoil...

A Bill doesn't have to detail specifically how it will be implemented. It can pass into law with much vagueness, and when provisions are drawn up on how that law will actually be enforced or implemented it can radically alter what the Bill seems like it is supporting.

I'm sure you have seen the Stealth Creationist laws that Charles has been posting. While some aren't exactly that 'Stealth', most do couch their intent in language that masks what the law will actually entail in the real world once passed.

So, yes, the tinfoil crowd is talking about what a provision of the Bill might actually mean. It is unfortunate that our legislative bodies actually operate this way though, and allow Bills to pass without first going to committee to discuss the brass tacks of it.

re: #162 FurryOldGuyJeans

I seriously expect O to nominate the next nitwit he finds that actually paid their taxes for some cabinet position, qualifications be damned.

Considering the (lack of) qualifications of most of the one's he's already nominated, that might actually be an improvement.

re: #162 FurryOldGuyJeans

I seriously expect O to nominate the next nitwit he finds that actually paid their taxes for some cabinet position, qualifications be damned.

I haven't seen many who are qualified for their positions so far.

re: #164 Afrocity

Awesome!

re: #154 Afrocity

Why are you in Chicago? It's much better out where I am. (The Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland a/k/a Near Iowa).

re: #154 Afrocity

Thats nothing, I live in Chicago. Last week we had a 10 year old "hang himself" in a bathroom stall. Many feel the teacher did it accidentally but coroner ruled it a suicide (developing). Obama did nothing for Illinois. Why he was elected to POTUS baffles me.

The same thing happened with WJC, the people of Arkansas were more than glad to get rid of him.

Here come the down-dingers.

re: #165 Killgore Trout

I've always had a crush on her. She was great in Dusk Till Dawn.

I LOVE THAT MOVIE

re: #97 FurryOldGuyJeans

You need batteries.

Light lamp.

Saw it on PBS Channel 13, NY. It sure opened my eyes about the wedge and DI.

re: #177 Walter L. Newton

Light lamp.

YOU need batteries. ;)

re: #156 Syrah

No, that is something you get once you prove yourself to not be a troll, or at least, that was the reason given to me for the long delay before the first check gets sent out.

_{You have received your first check by now haven't you?}

I get a special commission for the Book Category profits.

:)

re: #166 Sharmuta

I know, but I've not read it --seems wrong.

re: #176 Afrocity

I was lucky that when I saw it I didn't know anything about it. I don't think I've ever been so surprised by a plot twist before.

re: #175 Charles

Here come the down-dingers.

Careful Charles, Phatcoder down dinged ya, he's one of those big bad hackers... Wooo.

I have it on good authority that psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them; no matter how crazy they are.

re: #181 ggt

Read it! It's not a difficult book to understand. The science involved is quite easy.

re: #179 FurryOldGuyJeans

YOU need batteries. ;)

What RPG game are you trying to play?

RPG = Role Playing Game

re: #179 FurryOldGuyJeans

YOU need batteries. ;)

I'm sorry, I posted that comment 20 minutes ago and forgot and went to the store. I just got back.

re: #30 Dark_Falcon

Never cared much for Phil Collins, but Peter Gabriel is the Man. Solsbury Hill alone is better than the entire career output of most artists.

re: #173 ggt

Why are you in Chicago? It's much better out where I am. (The Very Far Western Suburbs of Chicagoland a/k/a Near Iowa).

I go to Ames, Iowa often.

I do not know how to drive so I have to stay in urban areas. When I worked on the McCain campaign, I did a lot of calls to Iowa..because Chicago was a wash.

re: #184 Scion9

I have it on good authority that psychos do not explode when sunlight hits them; no matter how crazy they are.

True, but moonbats' heads explode when exposed to the sunlight of truth. We see it all the time here.

re: #185 Sharmuta

Read it! It's not a difficult book to understand. The science involved is quite easy.

I will, when I finish the stacks I have :)

(but put it in the links so I won't forget)

re: #150 Marvo76

Is that what they call it these days?

re: #187 Walter L. Newton

I'm sorry, I posted that comment 20 minutes ago and forgot and went to the store. I just got back.

How could you go to the store when you need batteries? Ain't got no power, you know. ;)

Intelligent Design on Trial

Here's ID I agree with...and she's Israeli.

re: #189 Afrocity

oh, Aurora has great bus and cab service. And, the train actually comes out this far too!

re: #193 FurryOldGuyJeans

How could you go to the store when you need batteries? Ain't got no power, you know. ;)

I went to the store to get batteries.

re: #186 Dark_Falcon

What RPG game are you trying to play?

RPG = Role Playing Game

Variant of Zork, if you really must know.

Just don't say, "Hello Sailor"!

re: #188 hopperandadropper

Never cared much for Phil Collins, but Peter Gabriel is the Man. Solsbury Hill alone is better than the entire career output of most artists.

I agree with you about Solsbury Hill, but not about Phil Collins. In the Air Tonight is still one of my favorite songs to sing, since I can actually do it some justice (though I'm not nearly as good as Collins).

re: #191 ggt

I will, when I finish the stacks I have :)

(but put it in the links so I won't forget)

Alright! I added not just Only A Theory, but Monkey Girl too.

re: #50 Afrocity

re: #59 Sharmuta

Most of us at LGF accept evolution.

But not all of us. It is true that the biblical view has had a tough time regaining acceptance in the state schools. But that's nothing new.

Anyways, Keep the Faith and be open-minded about some of the opinions at this site. Some are vile; some are sharp; some are dull. Remember, Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. "

re: #195 ggt

I go to the outlet mall there in Aurora.
Hoosier said we should have a Chicago meetup.
That would be great because I want to see if we can unseat mayor Daley and this new Gov. Quinn. Republicans are hard to find in Chicago. My group was only 5 during the campaign.

re: #197 FurryOldGuyJeans

Variant of Zork, if you really must know.

Just don't say, "Hello Sailor"!

Cool. I know a fair number of RPG players, so I knew what you were up to. Fun to read, though. :)

I just finished watching Judgment Day, and I gotta say, That was awesome!

re: #197 FurryOldGuyJeans

Variant of Zork, if you really must know.

Just don't say, "Hello Sailor"!

Wow. Zork. Brings me back to the first computer I played on. Commodore 64
LOAD"*",8,1
Ahh...memories :)

re: #201 Afrocity

I go to the outlet mall there in Aurora.
Hoosier said we should have a Chicago meetup.
That would be great because I want to see if we can unseat mayor Daley and this new Gov. Quinn. Republicans are hard to find in Chicago. My group was only 5 during the campaign.

Where would we meet? Someplace downtown?

re: #185 Sharmuta

Now you can yell at me for not putting something in the book links.

there is a series of science books for non-majors written by "famous" scientists called The Science Masters Series published by Basic Books. They are short and easy to get thru. As usual, I own more than I've read. The one by Richard Dawkins was called River out of Eden in which he tries to explain evolution.

I haven't read his subsequent work, but I can't remember anything in this book that turned me off, I thought it was well written and interesting.

re: #200 ASU86PE

re: #59 Sharmuta

But not all of us. It is true that the biblical view has had a tough time regaining acceptance in the state schools. But that's nothing new.

Anyways, Keep the Faith and be open-minded about some of the opinions at this site. Some are vile; some are sharp; some are dull. Remember, Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. "

This actually shows the problem. Why should the biblical view, which, by definition is based on religon, have acceptance in state schools, which are required NOT to establish a religion?
If the Judeo-Christian Bible is discussed in school, why not the Hindu, Native American, and all other religious models not get discussed? If one is picked, but not all, doesn't that establish that religion?

re: #204 BryanS

Wow. Zork. Brings me back to the first computer I played on. Commodore 64
LOAD"*",8,1
Ahh...memories :)

C=64 was high tech compared to some the things I learned on in school.

re: #200 ASU86PE

But not all of us.

Right- which is why I said "most" and not "all".

It is true that the biblical view has had a tough time regaining acceptance in the state schools. But that's nothing new.

And it's not going to because it's not science.

re: #198 Dark_Falcon

I agree with you about Solsbury Hill, but not about Phil Collins. In the Air Tonight is still one of my favorite songs to sing, since I can actually do it some justice (though I'm not nearly as good as Collins).

I like Phil Collins as a lead for Genesis better than Peter Gabriel. But Peter is better as a solo act IMHO. I love Shock The Money.

re: #199 Sharmuta

Alright! I added not just Only A Theory, but Monkey Girl too.

You are sooo awesome!

re: #211 ggt

Awww, shucks!

re: #210 Afrocity

I like Phil Collins as a lead for Genesis better than Peter Gabriel. But Peter is better as a solo act IMHO. I love Shock The Money.

I can understand that. Especially since "Turn It On Again" is another song I like.

re: #200 ASU86PE

Hard to get religious dogma accepted as science, unless you are in Saudi Arabia or Iran.

re: #84 Afrocity

Thank you Sharmuta. I did not know the issues involving ID. I have heard it was conservative based, then I go to Wikipedia (which is seldom accurate anyway) and it says:

Discovery Institute, a politically conservative think tank...

Well I guess that depends upon the views of the person who did the wiki entry.

FWIW, I do not consider the DI to be conservative, not by any means, not in any way.

The fact that they use dishonest tactics to subvert the U.S. Constitution, and use American school children as pawns in achieving their goals, makes them no different than the communists and leftists that do the same. There is nothing politically conservative about the Discovery Institute.

re: #200 ASU86PE

re: #59 Sharmuta

But not all of us. It is true that the biblical view has had a tough time regaining acceptance in the state schools. But that's nothing new.

Anyways, Keep the Faith and be open-minded about some of the opinions at this site. Some are vile; some are sharp; some are dull. Remember, Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. "

I believe in the Word of God. His word is a spiritual guide.
I know evolution to be supported by multidisciplinary evidence for the physical world and the life therein. It is a description of the physical world.

I don't see a conflict between the two.

re: #208 FurryOldGuyJeans

There's a zork revival on the way; Legends of Zork. I doubt they'll be able to capture the magic of the original but it's nice to see the game is still loved.

re: #209 Sharmuta

And it's not going to because it's not science.

Scripture is not, nor was it intended to be, imo, a science book or a history book or any other label you want to stick on it.
It is the Word of God to mankind. Period.
To artificially try to jam it into some hole like just another peg is ridiculous.

re: #210 Afrocity

"So" is one of the best albums ever made. IMHO

re: #205 Dark_Falcon

Place has not been picked yet. I have a apt, in hi-rise with Party room and hot tub. Nice for a pot luck sort of thing that we can actually talk. Public places here are full of Obots. Gotta be careful.

re: #11 Dark_Falcon

fixed. But seriously, when people turn to the destruction of other people's speech, I turn against the destroyers. I've seen the world they want to build and I don't want to live in it!

Yeah. Those mural-burners remind me of the Taliban shellers of the Bamiyan Buddhas.

re: #207 Kosh's Shadow

This actually shows the problem. Why should the biblical view, which, by definition is based on religon, have acceptance in state schools, which are required NOT to establish a religion?
If the Judeo-Christian Bible is discussed in school, why not the Hindu, Native American, and all other religious models not get discussed? If one is picked, but not all, doesn't that establish that religion?

I have no problem with the Bible being discussed in an elective comparative religions class, or in the context of a history class, or literature class as far discussing the influence the Bible has had, but the line is drawn at teaching the Bible as an agenda to indoctrinate kids.

re: #222 Sharmuta

I have no problem with the Bible being discussed in an elective comparative religions class, or in the context of a history class, or literature class as far discussing the influence the Bible has had, but the line is drawn at teaching the Bible as an agenda to indoctrinate kids.

I agree. I left out that I was concerned about teaching the Bible as science.

re: #223 Kosh's Shadow

I figured, and that context is why I gave you an upding. :)

eat american soldier usa

/well, now there's a search string you don't want to find in your blog's stats

re: #220 Afrocity

Place has not been picked yet. I have a apt, in hi-rise with Party room and hot tub. Nice for a pot luck sort of thing that we can actually talk. Public places here are full of Obots. Gotta be careful.

Sounds an awful lot like the People's Republic of Madison where I live :)

Believe me, if the Almighty wanted Scripture to be a science book, He would have put in all the detail we needed. When it came to building the Tabernacle, the details are done to the minutest.
Scripture is not scientific., and it is just about blasphemy to reduce it to such.
(again, imo)

re: #217 Killgore Trout

There's a zork revival on the way; Legends of Zork. I doubt they'll be able to capture the magic of the original but it's nice to see the game is still loved.

I do occasionally find myself playing the last two Zork PC game incarnations when I get bored, especially Zork: Grand Inquisitor. Erick Avari as Mir Yannick, the Grand Inquisitor is a hoot. "I am so the Boss of you!"

re: #192 sngnsgt

that's what we called in my house when I was growing up...

re: #219 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

"So" is one of the best albums ever made. IMHO

Yeah, it is. But no better than PG, PG(II), PG(III) and PG(IV) (a/k/a/ "Security"). All genius. Never get tired of any of 'em.

re: #220 Afrocity

Place has not been picked yet. I have a apt, in hi-rise with Party room and hot tub. Nice for a pot luck sort of thing that we can actually talk. Public places here are full of Obots. Gotta be careful.

Seattle, that's sounds so much like Seattle.

re: #221 Salamantis

Yeah. Those mural-burners remind me of the Taliban shellers of the Bamiyan Buddhas.

Agreed. The solution to speech you don't like is your own speech. The mural burning was done by someone who, like bin Laden and Stalin, was convinced that he possessed the Absolute Truth and and that what he knew was all that needed to be known. From that perspective, someone who disagrees is not just wrong but a deceiver who must be stopped. Such a person may convince himself that he's doing God's Work but I know who they are really working for. I'll let Mick Jagger make the introduction:

re: #230 Marvo76

Ahh, I get it. ;-)

re: #32 Afrocity

What is the Conservative position? I remember Bush thinking that it was fine to teach creationism in school alongside evolution.

Bush "part of education is to expose people to different schools of thought. You're asking me whether or not people ought to be exposed to different ideas, the answer is yes..."

"Teach the controversy" is a Wedge Strategy tactic employed by Disco Institute shills in order to try to shoehorn any dogmatic claptrap they want into public high school science class simply by first fabricating a manufactured controversy from their incessant whining, and then claiming that their bitchiong and moaning constitutes a controversy that must be taught:

[Link: ase.tufts.edu...]

excerpt:

"...the proponents of intelligent design use a ploy that works something like this. First you misuse or misdescribe some scientist's work. Then you get an angry rebuttal. Then, instead of dealing forthrightly with the charges leveled, you cite the rebuttal as evidence that there is a "controversy" to teach.

Note that the trick is content-free. You can use it on any topic. "Smith's work in geology supports my argument that the earth is flat," you say, misrepresenting Smith's work. When Smith responds with a denunciation of your misuse of her work, you respond, saying something like: "See what a controversy we have here? Professor Smith and I are locked in a titanic scientific debate. We should teach the controversy in the classrooms." And here is the delicious part: you can often exploit the very technicality of the issues to your own advantage, counting on most of us to miss the point in all the difficult details."

re: #219 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

FBV- "So" is a great album. Oh, the 80's. I love Synchronicity by the Police too.
IMO a great album is one in which I love every song. Like RIO by Duran Duran, or Songs in the Key of Life. Nevermind-Nirvana.

re: #220 Afrocity

Place has not been picked yet. I have a apt, in hi-rise with Party room and hot tub. Nice for a pot luck sort of thing that we can actually talk. Public places here are full of Obots. Gotta be careful.

Now, this is the kind of talking that makes me crazy. What, are we supposed to have secret conversations, out of the hearing of Obama supporters?
If this is the case, our country is already lost.
Screw em! Get right up in their faces and say whatever you want to say!

re: #201 Afrocity

I go to the outlet mall there in Aurora.
Hoosier said we should have a Chicago meetup.
That would be great because I want to see if we can unseat mayor Daley and this new Gov. Quinn. Republicans are hard to find in Chicago. My group was only 5 during the campaign.

Well, the meet-up will have to be in the 'burbs, 'cause I don't come down to the city very often (it tends to be a whole day event with the drive and all). I think the only way Daley will be unseated is if Chicago doesn't get the Olympics.

re: #77 Marvo76

It already started in CA where some text books have been "modified" to show Islam in a more favorable light. I believe they have even had Indoctrination in to how muslims worship as sort of a "social enlightenment" or culture appreciation exercise...

Link? I've not seen this in the Bay Area.

re: #232 FurryOldGuyJeans

Seattle, that's sounds so much like Seattle.

Anytime I go into Seattle I make sure I wear my USS Ronald Reagan hat.
I relish the glares I get.

re: #236 Afrocity

"Songs in the Key of Life"? Fuggetaboutit! Like buttah!

re: #232 FurryOldGuyJeans

Seattle, that's sounds so much like Seattle.

It can be worse. My dad and I are too big to be easy to mess with so we don't get physical threats when we talk from a conservative standpoint. But I have caught the wrong end of moonbat shrieks from time to time. I tend not to engage, but on the rare occasions that I do reply, I have had some success backing the moonbats off through sheer volume. I have a very strong voice and am almost impossible to shout down.

re: #232 FurryOldGuyJeans

Seattle, that's sounds so much like Seattle.

furry,

I live two block from Grant Park where the BIG OBAMA night took place. I was probably the only black person in Chicago in bed crying that night because McCain lost (it even hurts just to type about it now). Helicopters were flying outside my apartment and I took a xanax chased with a glass of shiraz and went to bed. When Indiana went blue I knew it was over. (ahhh, it still burns)

re: #33 Cato the Elder

Here's a question that's been bothering me: How could we prevent "religions" like $cientology that are really nothing but money-making scams from taking advantage of the tax exemption for churches, without discriminating against legitimate religion, even if they're wacky?

Couldn't there be a law written to prevent this kind of abuse? By, say, making it illegal to charge gobs of money for "religious initiation" and the like?

Quid dicetis, O lacerti?

Nope. That would violate the 1st Amendment, by favoring some religions over others. besides which, it is open to personal-bias-grounded abuse.

Dubya stated that he didn't believe that 'witchcraft', meaning Paganism, was a religion. We Pagans had to fight in courtfor a decade just to win the right for fallen Pagan US military personnel who had either given their last full measure of devotion for their country on the battlefield of war, or had served and retired honorably, to be buried in US military cemetaries under headstones bearing the symbols of their faith:

[Link: www.paganvets.org...]

re: #240 JCM

Anytime I go into Seattle I make sure I wear my USS Ronald Reagan hat.
I relish the glares I get.

I prefer doing a pre-frontal lobotomy on my self by shoving frozen peas up my nose to going to Seattle.

re: #244 Afrocity

furry,

I live two block from Grant Park where the BIG OBAMA night took place. I was probably the only black person in Chicago in bed crying that night because McCain lost (it even hurts just to type about it now). Helicopters were flying outside my apartment and I took a xanax chased with a glass of shiraz and went to bed. When Indiana went blue I knew it was over. (ahhh, it still burns)

You sound like you need a big hug and massage. :)

{hugs}

re: #246 FurryOldGuyJeans

I prefer doing a pre-frontal lobotomy on my self by shoving frozen peas up my nose to going to Seattle.

That feels really good in the summer.

re: #47 Marvo76

there are some mysteries that are reserved for God, seems like I heard that in a sermon once...

Maybe. But the only way to find out if a particular problem is actually a cosmic mystery is to try to solve it.

re: #237 Wishing

Now, this is the kind of talking that makes me crazy. What, are we supposed to have secret conversations, out of the hearing of Obama supporters?
If this is the case, our country is already lost.
Screw em! Get right up in their faces and say whatever you want to say!

Umm, maybe you should take a look at Chicagoans against Obama: [Link: chicagoagainstobama.wordpress.com...]

It gets real UGLY here.
That site has some of the ugliness.
I am on the down low after death threats and my dog was poisoned.

re: #246 FurryOldGuyJeans

I prefer doing a pre-frontal lobotomy on my self by shoving frozen peas up my nose to going to Seattle.

ROFL! Gotta take the kids to the Dr. sometime!

re: #251 Afrocity

Umm, maybe you should take a look at Chicagoans against Obama: [Link: chicagoagainstobama.wordpress.com...]

It gets real UGLY here.
That site has some of the ugliness.
I am on the down low after death threats and my dog was poisoned.

I am so sorry.

re: #50 Afrocity

Gracias.

I have issues that I think I am strong about. This one is new to me along with stem cell research. IE something I do not have a firm opinion on.

On instinct I feel if you teach a child one view you should teach the other. I remember when Sarah Palin began to run many liberals I knew where up in arms about her being a creationist and asked how could I support her. I am of the opinion that your religion or belief system is your business as long as it does not interfere with your job in office. I am for separation of church and state. During the debates I thought Sarah made it clear that she did not let her faith or beliefs cloud her judgment as far as her position as governor.
I was fine with that answer.

If one 'view' is a theory in empirical science that is supported by reams of evidence and the other 'view' is a contention of dogmatic religion that lacks even a single shred of empirical evidence support, only the first of them belongs in public high school science class.

re: #251 Afrocity

Umm, maybe you should take a look at Chicagoans against Obama: [Link: chicagoagainstobama.wordpress.com...]

It gets real UGLY here.
That site has some of the ugliness.
I am on the down low after death threats and my dog was poisoned.

The left can get really nasty I wouldn't blame you for being cautious. Conservatives have noted it before, but hard core leftists can be some of the most intolerant people.