Robert Spencer Joins Genocidal Facebook Group

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At Facebook, we find this group: white nationalists who advocate conquering Turkey and expelling/slaughtering the entire Muslim population—150 million people: Facebook | CAMPAIGN FOR THE ‘RECONQUISTA’ IN ANATOLIA!

Once the former East Roman capital is recaptured every single brick, pavingstone, copper wire, bolt nut & screw, piece of ceramic, shard of glass, plank of wood and fleck of paint, placed within this city after May 29th 1453 will be systematicallly demolished, melted burnt and ground down into a fine dust, shipped out to the middle of the North Atlantic Ocean in oil tankers and sporadically scattered over a wide area, so that there will be no physical remains of the city of Istanbul whatsoever.

The main aims of this group are to:

. Advocate the total Reconquest and complete reassymilation of the Anatolia penninsular, eastern Thrace, northern Cyprus, Greater Armenia, The Pontus and Antiochia through the medium of Greek, Armenian, Cypriot, Byzantine, Pontic and Syriac National Sovereignty and on an unconditional basis.

. The complete unilateral and unnegotiable permanent ethnic transformation of theses territories in order to coopt the first aim.

. And the establishment of a National coalitionary Greater European confederative super state in order to secure the first two aims, with guaranteed sovereign borders, fixed permanent garrisons and the necessary military means to ensure alien repatriation with a view to permanent long term resettlement.

* This group entirely understands and accepts that this project will require the displacement of up to 150 million persons, an armed and paramilitarily active settler rediaspora of at least 15 million economically viable semi-civilian colonists, an occupation force consisting of at least 2 million professional troops, a military presents in all territories between Anatolia and West Turkestan and anything between 0.5 and 5 trillion dollars worth of fiscal capital in order to complete. Furthermore this group also realises that the territories for resettlement in lower central Asia may not be currently suitable for such a large demographic intake and that therefore, mass sterilisation via sexual segregation and voluntary euthenasia programmes (may for the time being), need to remain on the table in order to prevent a latter humanitarian disaster.

* This group is not a hate group and it entirely recognises the fact that the majority of Turks currently living on the Anatolian peninsular are not responsible for the actions of their ancestors. However, they ARE in possesion of stolen land and property that does not rightfuly belong to them either as a Nation or as individuals, which essentialy makes them a Nation of squaters. Therefore this is a group for the expression and advocation of national, racial and civilizational patriotic duty (no matter how unpleasant that duty might be) and for the principle of ethnic primogenture (particularly among civilized Nations that have either been destroyed or severely ravaged by culturaly inferior Nations), so please keep comments above the intellectual level of the average 5 year old’s!

One of the videos linked on that page, as I write, is “The Aryan Nations.”

And one of the newest members of the group is Robert Spencer.

This is the “View Friends” page linked to the picture of Spencer, which would not be possible if it were an imposter: Facebook | Robert Spencer.

I’ve made copies of all these pages, using Safari’s web archive feature.

(Hat tip: Cato the Elder.)

UPDATE at 2/12/09 8:07:08 am:

After the vicious personal attacks on me that Spencer has posted, I won’t link to his site, but today he’s admitting that he did join this group—but claiming that he was “duped” into joining, suggesting that it was an “internet prank” and a setup. And he hints that I might have set it all up myself. To get him.

Of course, I didn’t set anything up. I was informed about this by someone on Spencer’s ‘friends’ list, who received an email notification when Spencer joined the group. And what does he mean by “prank?” The group is absolutely real, and has been in existence for months.

As for his claim that he “didn’t know” what the group was about, we report, you decide. The name of the group is “Campaign for the Reconquest in Anatolia,” which seems a little difficult to misconstrue.

But you might want to look at this post at Spencer’s site (this is from the Google cache), which says pretty much the same thing as the Facebook group’s mission statement, minus the genocidal language: Free Constantinople: The Nakba, May 29, 1453.

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1214 comments
1 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:06:09pm

Sickening stuff, vile.

2 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:06:18pm

Disgusting, shameful... there are no words to describe the vile fraud this man has perpetrated on decent people who want to stand up against jihad on ideological grounds.

3 freetoken  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:07:18pm

Just for the sake of argument.... Could Spencer claim that he is merely collecting information on the rise of anti-Islamism, for the purposes of understanding the blowback in western nations against the jihadists?

4 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:08:40pm
5 Desert Dog  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:08:46pm

What has happened to this man?

6 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:08:52pm

re: #3 freetoken

He's been tied to ethnic nationalist groups before this, and not just his support for VB.

7 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:08:55pm

I have posted no opinions here. Everything in this post is documented fact.

8 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:09:35pm

re: #3 freetoken

Please see:

[Link: www.kejda.net...]

9 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:09:38pm

OK. I know NOTHING about Facebook.

Why couldn't someone else have signed up as Spencer. And I only ask because I don't understand. Everyone here knows that I am no supporter of Spencer.

10 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:09:46pm

re: #3 freetoken

He could indeed say that. Didn't some "The Who" member try that tactic vis a vis kiddy porn a while back? I think him saying that would go over with most people like that did, which is, like a lead balloon.

Too much history.

11 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:09:49pm

Well. That is certainly an interesting goal.

Have they picked someone to be Caesar yet?

As a dear friend of mine likes to comment, "We don't need all kinds. We just HAVE all kinds."

12 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:10:35pm

re: #9 Walter L. Newton

OK. I know NOTHING about Facebook.

Why couldn't someone else have signed up as Spencer. And I only ask because I don't understand. Everyone here knows that I am no supporter of Spencer.

The 'View Friends' page goes to Robert Spencer's friends page. This is generated by Facebook and tied to your account. It couldn't be faked.

13 Dayenu  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:10:40pm

Dear Lord.

I've learned so much from Spencer. I learned a lot about Koranic interpretations, the true values of Muhammad, and his life. A great deal about Islam, and the threat Jihadism poses to the west.

But this is not the solution. I can't imagine what Spencer's excuse for this could be.

14 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:11:44pm

re: #13 Dayenu

I can't imagine what Spencer's excuse for this could be.

There is none.

15 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:11:57pm

re: #9 Walter L. Newton

OK. I know NOTHING about Facebook.

Why couldn't someone else have signed up as Spencer. And I only ask because I don't understand. Everyone here knows that I am no supporter of Spencer.

I'll leave it to someone else to explain fully, but basically some folks had Spencer on their friends list (folks here). You can't fake it on facebook. There can only be one Robert Spencer on all of Facebook. If I am understanding this correctly.

16 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:12:40pm

All, keep an eye "out there" for those who are rushing to his defense with more gusto than is meet; I'd bet that they also have skin in this game.

17 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:14:03pm

re: #12 Charles

The 'View Friends' page goes to Robert Spencer's friends page. This is generated by Facebook and tied to your account. It couldn't be faked.

So...

1) Spencer has a facebook page
2) This group has a facebook page
3) For Spencers PAGE to appear in #2's friends...
4) Robert has to post picture and link.

Have I got it?

18 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:14:10pm

Oh, and thanks to Cato for bringing this forward and Charles for his ever present backbone.

19 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:14:40pm

They advocate mass sterilization.

20 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:14:47pm

re: #12 Charles

Um, for those of us who are ingnorant about facebook, is there someway we can see Spencer's friends list without joining Facebook?
I only ask because when I went to your link I apparently have to log in to Facebook and I don't know how to do that without "joining" Facebook.

21 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:15:08pm

re: #13 Dayenu

But this is not the solution. I can't imagine what Spencer's excuse for this could be.

His excuse? That he has come to the conclusion that this is the solution. Sad to say.

22 Kyriakos  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:15:09pm

Ever been to Greece? There are still lots of patriotic old men who nostalgically wish for the "repatriation" of Constantinople, and old posters from the 70s with similar desires. The road signs still say Κωνσταντινούπολις!

Even though this plan documents a sort of crude, step-by-step process of reconquest, I am willing to excuse Mr. Spencer of buying into the thing outright. Constantinople is an ideal. Greek history from Constantine to well after 1453 has centered on Constantinople, and it is still the seat of the Ecumenical Patriarch, who is virtually a hostage to the Turks and subject to all sorts of restrictions on maintaining buildings, on speech, and so forth.

Mr. Spencer is no genocidal maniac but an idealistic old man trapped in his own sense of a triumphal past, enticed by the whispers of his ancestors from Byzantium.

23 Buster Bunny  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:15:25pm

meh ... you can only sink so low.

24 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:15:28pm

After this, if David Horowitz had better ban Spencer from ever publishing anything on FrontPageMag ever again. Either that or I'll stop reading that site. Robert Spencer should now be treated like a contagion. The disease he causes is called Fascism and it must never be forgotten or excused. Never Again!

N.B. I am not Jewish, but I find it proper to add that last when dealing with especially nasty Fascists and Jew-Haters.

25 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:15:39pm

What say ye, Robert Spencer?
Inquiring minds want to know.

26 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:15:41pm

The truly devastating consequence of this move on robert's part is the ammunition it will generate for like likes of CAIR and other jihadi front groups in calling anti-jihadists of all stripes nazis. They have a legitimate point of contention now, that will really damage counter-jihad efforts. Sad, sad turn of events.

27 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:15:49pm
28 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:16:39pm
29 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:16:41pm

re: #17 Walter L. Newton

So...

1) Spencer has a facebook page
2) This group has a facebook page
3) For Spencers PAGE to appear in #2's friends...
4) Robert has to post picture and link.

Have I got it?

You join a group on Facebook, and your picture is automatically added to the 'Members' page. Next to your picture is a link to your list of 'Friends.' It's all done automatically by Facebook.

The only way this could be faked is if Spencer's whole account is a fake. And that's very unlikely, given the long list of friends, many of whom you will recognize.

30 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:17:02pm

Who are these people? This is too dull to be satire, and also makes no goddamn sense.

31 Buster Bunny  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:17:21pm

Reclaim Al-Andalus !(Spain)

Reclaim Yattrib ! (Mecca)

Cmon .. while we are at it .. I think Gaul has been overtaken by crazy Romans pretending to be French !

Reclaim Gaul !

32 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:18:02pm

re: #19 Charles

They advocate mass sterilization.

Then he has truly crossed the line. He has become a Nazi, in every way that matters.

And Dayenu, in regards to your #13, he has no excuse.

33 freetoken  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:18:20pm

re: #8 Sharmuta

What a complex inter-weaving of ideologies and groups! One needs a map of the inter-connections....

34 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:18:29pm

re: #24 Dark_Falcon

I stopped reading that site long ago. When a site has to dress up ads to look like news, it's not for me. That tactic says "we think you are stupid". Just like talk radio ads that pretend to be some regular "talk radio" type of guy on a call-in show. I quit listening or reading when the outlet tells me they think I'm an idiot.

35 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:18:29pm

re: #27 Cato the Elder

Did he in fact join the group? (Evidence says yes).
If he retracted, would you ignore the fact that he did it in the first place?
Should you worry? Who are his "peeps"?

36 jaunte  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:18:46pm

This 2002 NRO article written by Spencer said that he was an adjunct fellow with the Free Congress Foundation. Does anyone know if he is still connected?
[Link: www.nationalreview.com...]


Wikipedia: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

According to anti-Dominionism activists TheocracyWatch, and the Anti-Defamation League, both Weyrich and his Free Congress Foundation were closely associated with Dominionism.[15][16] TheocracyWatch listed both as leading examples of "dominionism in action," citing "a manifesto from Paul Weyrich's Free Congress Foundation," The Integration of Theory and Practice: A Program for the New Traditionalist Movement[17], "illuminates the tactics of the dominionist movement."[15] TheocracyWatch, which calls it "Paul Weyrich's Training Manual," and others consider this manifesto a virtual playbook for how the "theocratic right" in American politics can get and keep power.[18]
37 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:18:59pm

re: #27 Cato the Elder
Uh, I'm not sure what you mean by "Sic his peeps on me" my friend - but if there's anyway I can cover your back, you've got it, in spades.

38 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:19:10pm

re: #27 Cato the Elder

Reposted from earlier thread:

Now help me out here, folks, I'm having serious qualms.

I wrote to Spencer and asked him to explain his membership in the hateful Nazi "Anatolia" group.

But I did not give him a chance to retract before posting this news here on LGF.

Was I wrong?

Spencer has my real name. He can sic his peeps on me if he feels like it.

Should I worry about that?

See this

39 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:19:11pm

Ok... can this happen?

1) Group starts facebook page called "I love Jews" and has pro Jewish content.
2) Robert joins "I Love Jews."
3) Group changes name to "I hate Jews" and changes content to anti-Jewish stuff.
4) Robert doesn't know this, he hasn't check back.

I'm talking about bait and switch.

40 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:19:53pm

re: #37 realwest

Uh, I'm not sure what you mean by "Sic his peeps on me" my friend - but if there's anyway I can cover your back, you've got it, in spades.

Me too, Cato.

41 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:19:58pm

Charles- maybe a screenshot of the friends page too, for those of us who don't have a facebook account?

42 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:20:02pm

re: #29 Charles

see my re: #39 Walter L. Newton

43 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:20:07pm
voluntary euthenasia programmes (may for the time being), need to remain on the table in order to prevent a latter humanitarian disaster

In other words, "Volunteer to die so we don't murder you."

44 Killer Tomato  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:20:17pm

I'm sorry - I haven't even started thinking about Spencer - I'm stuck on this.

* This group entirely understands and accepts that this project will require the displacement of up to 150 million persons, an armed and paramilitarily active settler rediaspora of at least 15 million economically viable semi-civilian colonists, an occupation force consisting of at least 2 million professional troops, a military presents in all territories between Anatolia and West Turkestan and anything between 0.5 and 5 trillion dollars worth of fiscal capital in order to complete. Furthermore this group also realises that the territories for resettlement in lower central Asia may not be currently suitable for such a large demographic intake and that therefore, mass sterilisation via sexual segregation and voluntary euthenasia programmes (may for the time being), need to remain on the table in order to prevent a latter humanitarian disaster.

Read it.
Now go back and read it again.

They are talking about human beings. 80 year old men; 12 year old girls, 7 year old boys, women with infants...
Dear Sweet Jesus how can anyone even think such things, much less propose them in public? If this isn't evil, I don't know what is.

45 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:20:28pm

re: #39 Walter L. Newton

Ok... can this happen?

1) Group starts facebook page called "I love Jews" and has pro Jewish content.
2) Robert joins "I Love Jews."
3) Group changes name to "I hate Jews" and changes content to anti-Jewish stuff.
4) Robert doesn't know this, he hasn't check back.

I'm talking about bait and switch.

Updates to the groups you belong to, or to your "friends", are posted on your page in a "log" style. Also, certain updates are e-mailed to you.

46 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:20:32pm

re: #31 Buster Bunny

Reclaim Al-Andalus !(Spain)

Reclaim Yattrib ! (Mecca)

Cmon .. while we are at it .. I think Gaul has been overtaken by crazy Romans pretending to be French !

Reclaim Gaul !

My husband and his ancestors would like the Southeastern United States back, thankyouverymuch.

And I want Iraq. Abraham and Sarah started from there, so it's mine. On second thought...OK, I'll just take the Southeastern United States, and become Cherokee by choice.

47 Buster Bunny  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:20:36pm

re: #39 Walter L. Newton

Nice try .. but if you are a thinking man .. which would you think is the more likely conclusion .. Mr Watson?

48 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:20:50pm

re: #38 reine.de.tout

Spencer has done this to himself.

49 pat  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:20:51pm

Anger develops a hard core once developed. He is meeting the anger directed at himself with the same. That becomes hatred. That is where wars come from. The West is desperately trying to avoid a war with a primitive, barbaric cult that is begging for war every day . Some will succumb to hatred.

50 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:21:21pm

re: #41 Sharmuta
YES, PLEASE!

51 wesp  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:21:31pm

This is really sad!

52 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:21:42pm

re: #44 Killer Tomato

I'm sorry - I haven't even started thinking about Spencer - I'm stuck on this.


Read it.
Now go back and read it again.

They are talking about human beings. 80 year old men; 12 year old girls, 7 year old boys, women with infants...
Dear Sweet Jesus how can anyone even think such things, much less propose them in public? If this isn't evil, I don't know what is.

It is evil. They are playing at being evil.

53 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:21:51pm

re: #39 Walter L. Newton

Ok... can this happen?

1) Group starts facebook page called "I love Jews" and has pro Jewish content.
2) Robert joins "I Love Jews."
3) Group changes name to "I hate Jews" and changes content to anti-Jewish stuff.
4) Robert doesn't know this, he hasn't check back.

I'm talking about bait and switch.


Very unlikely, Walter.

54 Aye Pod  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:21:54pm

re: #27 Cato the Elder

Here was my reply to you on the other thread:

I'm not a legal expert but it doesn't seem reasonable to me that you could be held at fault for bringing attention to a connection that he has made himself, and pointing out the obvious concerns that such a connection creates.

I don't see how you could be legally obliged to tell him about how this action of his looks before telling anyone else about it.

55 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:21:55pm

re: #41 Sharmuta

Charles- maybe a screenshot of the friends page too, for those of us who don't have a facebook account?

I'm not going to bring those people into this -- they're not members of the genocidal group.

56 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:22:04pm

re: #48 Irish Rose

Spencer has done this to himself.

Yes, he has.
Cato is worrying that perhaps he jumped the gun.

What Cato pointed out was that Spencer joined a group.
And Spencer did indeed join a group.

Cato should not worry, is all I was trying to point out.

57 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:22:15pm

re: #45 reine.de.tout

Updates to the groups you belong to, or to your "friends", are posted on your page in a "log" style. Also, certain updates are e-mailed to you.

But, can my scenario happen? That's what I want to know. Even if Robert gets some sort of notice, can my steps 1,2,3,4 happen?

58 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:22:21pm

re: #55 Charles

Fair enough and understandable.

59 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:22:28pm

They will say, the deeper you research Islam, the more likely you will come to the conclusion we have.

60 Prikolno  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:22:45pm

re: #39 Walter L. Newton

Ok... can this happen?

1) Group starts facebook page called "I love Jews" and has pro Jewish content.
2) Robert joins "I Love Jews."
3) Group changes name to "I hate Jews" and changes content to anti-Jewish stuff.
4) Robert doesn't know this, he hasn't check back.

I'm talking about bait and switch.


Sounds plausible, and besides, using someone else's pic is not new on the internet.
PS, I have no face book account, so cant really confirm it.

61 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:23:35pm

re: #57 Walter L. Newton

But, can my scenario happen? That's what I want to know. Even if Robert gets some sort of notice, can my steps 1,2,3,4 happen?

I don't know, honestly.
I think this was a recent action - spencer just joined within the past couple of days, is what I understood.

62 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:23:38pm

re: #53 Irish Rose

Very unlikely, Walter.

I didn't ask if it was "very unlikely" I asked if it could happen. As in my steps 1,2,3,4.?

I'm not supporting him.

63 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:23:41pm

re: #59 Taqiyyotomist

They will say, the deeper you research Islam, the more likely you will come to the conclusion we have.

Not that I agree. Just that they will say this.

64 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:23:45pm

re: #39 Walter L. Newton

Ok... can this happen?

1) Group starts facebook page called "I love Jews" and has pro Jewish content.
2) Robert joins "I Love Jews."
3) Group changes name to "I hate Jews" and changes content to anti-Jewish stuff.
4) Robert doesn't know this, he hasn't check back.

I'm talking about bait and switch.

No, it's not possible. There are ugly comments dating back almost a month.

65 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:23:47pm

re: #45 reine.de.tout
reine - PLEASE forgive my ignorance about things involving Facebook, but I don't want to join and don't know how I can read either Spencer's Friends page(s) or whether or not Walter could be right about a bait and switch.
Can you please help me out here?

66 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:24:22pm

re: #55 Charles

I'm not going to bring those people into this -- they're not members of the genocidal group.

I was hoping you'd say that.

67 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:24:55pm

re: #65 realwest

reine - PLEASE forgive my ignorance about things involving Facebook, but I don't want to join and don't know how I can read either Spencer's Friends page(s) or whether or not Walter could be right about a bait and switch.
Can you please help me out here?

Charles just answerd about the "bait and switch".

You cannot read Spencer's friends page unless you join.

68 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:25:23pm

re: #49 pat

Anger develops a hard core once developed. He is meeting the anger directed at himself with the same. That becomes hatred. That is where wars come from. The West is desperately trying to avoid a war with a primitive, barbaric cult that is begging for war every day . Some will succumb to hatred.

I beg your pardon. I do not actually know anything about this Spencer person, except that he is signed onto this genocidal document. What exactly has any Turk done to him that he feels justified in succumbing to this hatred, or holding it in the first goddamn place?

69 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:25:27pm

re: #61 reine.de.tout

I don't know, honestly.
I think this was a recent action - spencer just joined within the past couple of days, is what I understood.

I don't see anything about that say when Spencer joined. I would like somebody who really know facebook and the way these pages come and go, confirm if it could happen the way I stated or not.

It should be a yes or no answer.

70 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:25:57pm

re: #55 Charles
Ah, ok I'm starting to get it - his "friends" page lists people you know are his friends so you know that it's really Robert Spencer, right?!?

71 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:25:58pm
72 Gearhead  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:26:03pm

re: #43 Kreuzueber Halbmond

In other words, "Volunteer to die so we don't murder you."

And once they're gone, who's left to say whether the euthanasia was voluntary or "enforced"?

It seems like such a final solution.

73 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:26:18pm

re: #69 Walter L. Newton

See charles #64.
He says no, it could not be a bait and switch.

74 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:26:20pm
75 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:26:32pm

re: #64 Charles

No, it's not possible. There are ugly comments dating back almost a month.

And when did Robert link as a friend? I keep saying I don't know ANYTHING about facebook, there for I don't know how this works.

76 Buster Bunny  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:26:39pm

re: #59 Taqiyyotomist

They will say, the deeper you research Islam, the more likely you will come to the conclusion we have.

The only people who Muslims hate more than the Jews are the wahabists who are politicising all traditional frameworks of Islamic life in a chance to OWN their own sicko format of Islam.

Wahabists are being plowed into the most liberal of Islamic areas .. such as some parts of Croatia.

I dont hate Islam. I hate the war machine that grows daily.

77 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:27:03pm

There are 316 members. The most recent members show up at the top of the list. Spencer is fourth.

78 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:27:20pm

re: #59 Taqiyyotomist

They will say, the deeper you research Islam, the more likely you will come to the conclusion we have.

Oh. Well, I will say that they can take their conclusion, fold it until it is all corners, and then...

79 stevieray  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:27:26pm

re: #31 Buster Bunny


Reclaim Al-Andalus !(Spain)

When I first followed Cato's link, I was hoping the site was playing off just that movement -- sort of a turn-about of the Al Andalus campaign -- show how wrong it is by flipping it back on the Islamists.

Unfortunately, the site is serious.

80 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:27:29pm

re: #70 realwest

Ah, ok I'm starting to get it - his "friends" page lists people you know are his friends so you know that it's really Robert Spencer, right?!?

Bingo.

81 Killian Bundy  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:27:50pm

re: #13 Dayenu

I can't imagine what Spencer's excuse for this could be.

Research?

/kinda worked for Pete Townsend

82 capitalist piglet  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:27:54pm

Is it possible to join a group on Facebook, or accept a friend request, and not really be aware of the nature of the group? Is there evidence that he was an active participant, aside from his membership?

(I'm Facebook-challenged - I apologize if these are useless questions.)

83 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:27:58pm

re: #63 Taqiyyotomist

Not that I agree. Just that they will say this.

No, I got that.

84 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:28:15pm

re: #75 Walter L. Newton

And when did Robert link as a friend? I keep saying I don't know ANYTHING about facebook, there for I don't know how this works.

He didn't 'link as a friend'. He joined the group as a member.

85 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:28:32pm

re: #74 ploome hineni

isn't that Medusa's site?

Why yes... yes it is :).

86 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:28:33pm

The Nakba, May 29, 1453
Posted by Robert at May 29, 2008 11:05 AM

Constantinople: 500 Year of Occupation is Enough.

If anything deserves to be called an occupation, and a nakba, it is this, although it has, like so many other bloody conquests in human history, been legitimized by time. Still, if the descendants of the Christian inhabitants of Constantinople and Anatolia were to demand, and receive, a right of return, rapidly-Islamizing Turkey would look vastly different from how it looks now.
87 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:28:51pm

Good god. Why would he do this? Even if he did believe that the Final Solution must be applied, he of all people knows enough about taqiyya and kithman, to hide what one really believes in order to maintain good relations, in order to keep the "plan" alive and kicking. I am seriously in complete WTF mode right now.

88 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:29:19pm

re: #77 Charles

There are 316 members. The most recent members show up at the top of the list. Spencer is fourth.

Is there any date stamping on these friends entries?

89 Dar ul Harbarian  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:29:21pm
Furthermore this group also realises that the territories for resettlement in lower central Asia may not be currently suitable for such a large demographic intake and that therefore, mass sterilisation via sexual segregation and voluntary euthenasia programmes (may for the time being), need to remain on the table in order to prevent a latter humanitarian disaster.

That is fukin insane!

voluntary euthenasia programmes (may for the time being), need to remain on the table in order to prevent a latter humanitarian disaster

Absolutely NUTS!

90 sleepyone  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:29:47pm

good grief

91 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:30:13pm

re: #75 Walter L. Newton

Don't have access to that info, only the group's owners can see that.

92 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:30:34pm

re: #88 Walter L. Newton

Is there any date stamping on these friends entries?

Revision - is there any visible date stamping, of when a person joined this page as a member?

93 Aye Pod  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:30:56pm

re: #19 Charles

They advocate mass sterilization.

I saw that they also describe their version of the liebensraum project, using the words 'liebensraum project'; they're obviously proud to establish parallels between themselves and the nazis.

94 Emerson Twain  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:30:58pm

The sooner we call them out as occupiers the better, as far as I'm concerned. Roll them back to where they came from. How's that? I'm with Spencer.

95 Buster Bunny  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:31:01pm

Nothing allows for genocide. Nothing justifies genocide. No group can ever be righteous if it is prepared to slaughter to reach its highest achievement.

I believe that God has a plan, and that karma will come due to evil men such as this.

96 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:31:05pm

I'm just a nobdy but,

((((((Charles)))))))

97 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:31:35pm

re: #89 Dar ul Harbarian

That is fukin insane!

voluntary euthenasia programmes (may for the time being), need to remain on the table in order to prevent a latter humanitarian disaster

Absolutely NUTS!

They're just showers, move right on in........

98 Kyriakos  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:31:48pm

The facebook page is not the only place his views are suggested, rather alarmingly.

[Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

On Dhimmiwatch, on the left margin right above the calendar is a link image with the Christian CHI-RHO reading "FREE CONSTANTINOPLE. 500 years of occupation is enough!"

The link connects to merchandise for the reconquest.
[Link: www.cafepress.com...]

99 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:31:53pm

re: #94 Emerson Twain

The sooner we call them out as occupiers the better, as far as I'm concerned. Roll them back to where they came from. How's that? I'm with Spencer.

Seeya.

100 Gearhead  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:32:01pm

re: #68 SanFranciscoZionist

I beg your pardon. I do not actually know anything about this Spencer person, except that he is signed onto this genocidal document. What exactly has any Turk done to him that he feels justified in succumbing to this hatred, or holding it in the first goddamn place?

Who gets it back, exactly? The Muslims weren't exactly the first to overrun the place.

101 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:32:05pm

re: #59 Taqiyyotomist

They will say, the deeper you research Islam, the more likely you will come to the conclusion we have.

I and I will respond: Genocide is never a thing we should consider. It is the height of evil. We ust fight the tyrannical aspects of Islam, but always with the aim of preserving freedom. I will not support the destruction of one form of tyranny just to replace it with another. The only things the members of the "Reconquista" group are missing are the Totenkopf and the Sigrunen.

102 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:32:15pm

re: #22 Kyriakos

I see you!

103 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:32:22pm

re: #94 Emerson Twain

The sooner we call them out as occupiers the better, as far as I'm concerned. Roll them back to where they came from. How's that? I'm with Spencer.

Get off my site.

104 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:32:31pm

re: #94 Emerson Twain

The sooner we call them out as occupiers the better, as far as I'm concerned. Roll them back to where they came from. How's that? I'm with Spencer.

Ethnic cleansing, genocide to achieve that?

FUCK OFF NAZI!

105 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:32:41pm

Charles: Please delete my comments here and here as well as any comments directly quoting them. I am going to let the chips fall where they may. Thank you.

Alea jacta est.

106 Killian Bundy  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:32:54pm

re: #94 Emerson Twain

The sooner we call them out as occupiers the better, as far as I'm concerned. Roll them back to where they came from. How's that? I'm with Spencer.

/please go stand by the stairs

107 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:33:11pm

re: #1 jcm

he looks vile too ;-)

108 jaunte  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:33:14pm

Murderous crazies.

109 Buster Bunny  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:33:19pm

re: #97 jcm

They're just showers, move right on in........

The dinosaurs puppet series had an excellent little episode where when the baby wasnt yelling NOT DA MAMA .. they were talking about WAR - We Are Right. And thats what it boils down to.

I hated that dino baby.

110 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:34:48pm

re: #105 Cato the Elder

Charles: Please delete my comments here and here as well as any comments directly quoting them. I am going to let the chips fall where they may. Thank you.

Alea jacta est.

Stand tall! You did the RIGHT THING!

111 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:34:49pm

I am now sick to my stomach to find out that I gave his book on Muhammed to my friend in Europe. I think I made a big mistake....

112 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:35:50pm

re: #105 Cato the Elder

Charles: Please delete my comments here and here as well as any comments directly quoting them. I am going to let the chips fall where they may. Thank you.

Alea jacta est.

We've got your back, friend.

113 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:36:00pm

re: #111 winston06

An email might be appropriate at this time, no?

114 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:36:03pm

re: #103 Charles

Get off my site.

Thank you, Charles. Lovers of Tyranny have no place here.

115 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:37:04pm

re: #113 Dan G.

I will phone my friend not to read the book, alas I think it is too late. He's a fast reader

what a charlatan

116 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:37:09pm

Spencer just flushed whatever credibility he had left down the toilet. Whooosh..

117 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:37:29pm
118 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:37:52pm

re: #116 Kreuzueber Halbmond

I was skeptical about him from the get go. I mean why would any one trust a brain dead idiot like him when there's Bernard Lewis stuff to read

119 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:38:07pm

re: #115 winston06

That might not be preventable; but him further recommending it, or acquiring other of his books, might be.

120 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:38:08pm

re: #117 Iron Fist

Exactly.

121 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:38:38pm

re: #117 Iron Fist

Nice analogy.

122 Scion9  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:38:41pm

re: #111 winston06

I am now sick to my stomach to find out that I gave his book on Muhammed to my friend in Europe. I think I made a big mistake....

Heh. I think my first post here was in defense of Spencer. Strange how far a little bit of knowledge can go.

123 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:38:42pm

re: #119 Dan G.

Last time I talked to him, he said he is going to buy more of it and give it to his Muslim friends in Netherlands.

124 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:38:52pm

re: #117 Iron Fist

It bugs me that I bought it, read it, and liked it. It's like finding out a favorite artist has been shooting kid porn on the side.

Know the feeling. But it's better to know.

125 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:39:46pm

re: #122 Scion9

And his website Jihad Watch sounds very angry whenever I go on it (by accident) and thats why I havent gone there in a long long time

126 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:40:23pm

re: #124 SanFranciscoZionist

Know the feeling. But it's better to know.

Yes, it is.

127 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:40:58pm

"Get off my site."

Perfect.
Folks, don't f*** with Charles tonight, of all nights.

128 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:41:01pm

re: #103 Charles

sounded like Harrison Ford on Air Force One movie: GET OFF MY AIRPLANE

LOL

129 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:41:35pm

re: #123 winston06

Damn.

130 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:41:35pm

re: #128 winston06

sounded like Harrison Ford on Air Force One movie: GET OFF MY AIRPLANE

LOL

I heard it in the voice of James Earl Jones, myself.

131 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:42:06pm

Ok, I've emailed him and simply asked him why he belongs to this group. He has answered most of my emails in the past, and he has trashed me in a number of articles on his site, so I guess I have as much interest in his answer as we all do.

I'll pass on anything I get from him (if I get anything from him).

132 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:42:50pm

re: #130 SanFranciscoZionist

hahaha

133 zionismrules  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:43:00pm

I don't know why people are reading so much into this. People join groups on facebook for many different reasons, not all of which signify endorsement of the group's message. For example, many anti-Israel people routinely join pro-Israel groups to either spread their propaganda or argue/debate with the other people in the group. And of course there is the JIDF, whose members apparently scout out hateful content in facebook groups and report it to facebook to try to have it removed. Or they somehow end up taking over the groups themselves and remove the group that way. Then of course there are people who join groups for other reasons, like learning what the advocates of various positions have to say -- one could call it research or sheer curiosity. Others join groups simply because their friends "invited" them and they clicked the OK/Join button. Most people rarely even look at most of their groups and a lot of people don't read the full descriptions of the groups they join. The JIDF recently succeeded in getting facebook to remove a group that purported to support fighting cancer -- which had over a million members. If one read the group's description though, it was full of vile anti-Semitism and conspiracy theories ([Link: www.thejidf.org...] Unless we see Robert Spencer posting supportive messages in a group like this, I wouldn't pay it much attention.

134 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:43:06pm

This is truly insane. I see no reason for the anti-jihad movement to destroy itself like this.

I am appalled.

135 Aye Pod  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:43:06pm

re: #84 Charles

He didn't 'link as a friend'. He joined the group as a member.

In that case it's very hard to see how can use the old 'I don't have time to vet every opinion of my friends' line as a defence here. He can hardly have joined the group without knowing what they are about.

136 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:43:26pm

re: #131 Walter L. Newton

Thank you.

Look, this is sick, but is anyone else humming "Take me back to Constantinople/no, you can't go back to Constantinople..."?

137 efuseakay  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:43:29pm

What a disappointment.

138 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:43:39pm

re: #133 zionismrules

Thats true...

139 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:43:42pm

re: #127 Taqiyyotomist

"Get off my site."

Perfect.
Folks, don't f*** with Charles tonight, of all nights.

re: #130 SanFranciscoZionist

I heard it in the voice of James Earl Jones, myself.


Eastwood.

/get off my lawn!

140 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:43:47pm

I just tried to log in over there at JihadWatch. Apparantly they've changed their comment system, so my login is gone. Which was why I went there tonight, to have my account deleted, please.

141 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:43:47pm

re: #80 Irish Rose
Thanks Rose. Sure wish I knew more about Facebook but I can't and won't join it just to see who Spencer's friends are - at least his friends listed at Facebook, but I'm wondering if there are any "bloggers" who's names are on Spencer's Friends page who's names or blognames we would recognize?
I'm sorry for putting it so awkwardly; you know I've always supported Charles in his fight against the Ne0-Nazi's and Fascists and their supporters, but I guess I'm still in shock that Robert Spencer of JihadWatch would possibley be involved in the CAMPAIGN FOR THE ‘RECONQUISTA’ IN ANATOLIA.

Just totally shocked.

142 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:44:28pm

re: #139 Irish Rose

thats my recent fave movie (Gran Torino)

143 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:44:42pm

re: #85 Irish Rose
Ah shoot, Rose I'm sorry but who is Medusa ?

144 Gearhead  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:44:51pm

re: #139 Irish Rose

Eastwood.

/get off my lawn!

Lethal Weapon:

Get that sh_t off my lawn!

145 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:45:13pm

re: #133 zionismrules

You apparently didn't see his writing distributed in other outlets where he was endorsing the same views (see above).

146 BignJames  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:45:31pm

re: #133 zionismrules

Would you join a group not knowing anything about it?

147 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:45:38pm

re: #133 zionismrules

He has a history. This is not an event occuring in a vacuum.

148 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:45:42pm

re: #131 Walter L. Newton

Ok, I've emailed him and simply asked him why he belongs to this group. He has answered most of my emails in the past, and he has trashed me in a number of articles on his site, so I guess I have as much interest in his answer as we all do.

I'll pass on anything I get from him (if I get anything from him).

Quite a few of us have been trashed, and would like an explanation for this abomination.

149 Dekar  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:45:46pm

re: #133 zionismrules

I've personally joined some really vile anti-Israel groups on Facebook to debate, but the arguments always devolve into trash-talking

150 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:45:59pm

re: #116 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Spencer just flushed whatever credibility he had left down the toilet. Whooosh..

And with it, the chance that anyone can quote the true things he has said (and he's said a lot of them, it must be recognized) without someone countering that he's supported Nazi goals.

It sets the entire anti-jihad, anti-Muslim-extremism movement back to, oh, I don't know - September 10, 2001?

Damn, damn, damn, damn, damn.

151 NoelArmourson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:46:04pm

Just on BBC TV news-Two satellites collided in orbit 800 km above Siberia-one a US communications satellite, one a defunct Russian military satellite-debris cloud may be a problem for the space station.

152 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:46:11pm

re: #143 realwest

Ah shoot, Rose I'm sorry but who is Medusa ?

Medaura.

153 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:46:16pm

re: #133 zionismrules

Apparently you missed comment #98:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

154 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:46:36pm

re: #145 Dan G.

That is #98 above.

155 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:46:40pm

re: #133 zionismrules

Mighty sloppy for a public figure if so.
He could quickly rectify that. My post at re: #86 jcm show he's been thinking along these lines for awhile, just not openly advocating genocide. He's also not distanced himself from openly other white supremacists groups.

This has been brewing for awhile.

156 Aye Pod  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:46:40pm

Well, I think it's looking pretty clear that Robert Spencer has most royally f*cked himself here.

157 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:46:49pm

I need help

I have a few friends here in Canada who admire Spencer and have him endorse their works on anti-Jihad movement. How can I get them off this? How can I warn them about these monsters without jeopardizing my friendship?

158 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:47:05pm

re: #151 NoelArmourson

Kursk in space?

159 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:47:37pm

re: #141 realwest

I'm wondering if there are any "bloggers" who's names are on Spencer's Friends page who's names or blognames we would recognize?

Yes.

160 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:48:06pm

re: #157 winston06

Cast the discussion in terms of betrayal, because that is what it, in fact, is.

161 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:48:15pm

re: #159 Irish Rose

I know a few of them and they are my friends here in Toronto. It's so sad

162 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:48:39pm

re: #160 Dan G.

I don't wanna be called names...

163 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:48:41pm

Hello Night Lizards! It's less wet in Near Iowa tonite.

What a horrible thing to want -- genocide. WTF?

How are you-all tonite and what are we talking about?

164 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:49:14pm

re: #156 Jimmah

Well, I think it's looking pretty clear that Robert Spencer has most royally f*cked himself here.

/understatement

165 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:49:20pm

re: #157 winston06

He used a little bit of truth to help the blatant bigotry go down...

166 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:49:39pm

Please note: being listed as a Spencer 'friend' does not mean they've joined this hate group. Only Spencer joined the group.

167 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:49:58pm

re: #162 winston06

Sticks and stones? Are they truly your friends?

168 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:50:11pm

re: #150 Cato the Elder

And with it, the chance that anyone can quote the true things he has said (and he's said a lot of them, it must be recognized) without someone countering that he's supported Nazi goals.

It sets the entire anti-jihad, anti-Muslim-extremism movement back to, oh, I don't know - September 10, 2001?

Damn, damn, damn, damn, damn.

Exactly. Exactly. And amen.

169 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:50:11pm

re: #105 Cato the Elder
Cato - I understand your concern - I truly do. But I meant it when I said I have your back. I don't see where you did anything wrong my friend. You are among friends out here. Stand tall - you have done us all a great favor.

170 Aye Pod  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:50:11pm

re: #143 realwest

Don't mind ploome. She just has a rather ignorant and stupid habit of calling her names like 'Medusa' and 'Jihadi' - something she shares with the posters on LGF2, incidentally.

171 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:50:36pm

re: #157 winston06

Honestly, I would give it a day or two to let this play out a little--see if Spencer responds to any of this, or offers any kind of rational response. (I'm not going to buy that he was helping a little old lady get across the street to the racist crazypeople meeting, but you know...something.)

Then, honestly, present them with the info, link them over here, and see what they think. If they're honest folks, and it turns out he really is giving support to this dreck, then they should know, and be able to make a decision about whether they want to continue to consider him a person they reference.

Of course, if they decide they're OK with this, then you have a different problem...one I really can't help with.

172 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:51:05pm

re: #167 Dan G.

Well, they are fellow bloggers whom I have met on several occasions and their work often get documented here by Canuck lizards too.

173 davinvalkri  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:51:07pm

They try to counter Islamist fascism with European fascism. Dammit, dammit, dammit dammit! Our pool is becoming dangerously shrunken.

174 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:51:09pm

re: #141 realwest

...I'm wondering if there are any "bloggers" who's names are on Spencer's Friends page who's names or blognames we would recognize?...

Atlas, for one.

Don't know if she's a member of the group. I couldn't bring myself to page through all 315 members.

175 Buster Bunny  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:51:31pm

re: #157 winston06

I need help

I have a few friends here in Canada who admire Spencer and have him endorse their works on anti-Jihad movement. How can I get them off this? How can I warn them about these monsters without jeopardizing my friendship?

All I know Winston is that this whole JihadWatch - Robert Spencer has left me with that sick in the pitts of the stomach feeling, for all the right reasons.

A little betrayal .. a lot of hope dashed and .. I'm just letting him go.

And on that note .. have a good night all.

176 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:51:37pm

re: #166 Charles

Please note: being listed as a Spencer 'friend' does not mean they've joined this hate group. Only Spencer joined the group.

An important distinction to make, if you're not familiar with how these social networking sites work.

Posting a screenshot of his personal friends' page would have implicated innocent people.

177 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:51:37pm

There is one good thing about this tragedy. It is that we have this site. Charles has done the right thing yet again. This is the second time today you have impressed me with your actions - if you drink a beer, I'll buy you one.

By outing this freak, this site maintains it's own legitimacy as a reasoned voice against both the evil within and the evil without.

I am still in a little shock, but hang tough. Things are going to get a lot more bumpy once the left gets a hold of these creeps' real views. On the other hand, these neo-nazis would destroy everything we have worth fighting for. One group of thugs vs. another.

We now have a two front war.

178 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:51:48pm

re: #117 Iron Fist
Yep. Although fortunately for me I didn't put any money in his pocket, his book was loaned to me by a friend!

179 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:51:53pm

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

Agreed. Though I have seen them do stuff that has certainly boiled my blood and it is really hard not to talk about it.

180 Gearhead  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:52:24pm

re: #173 davinvalkri

They try to counter Islamist fascism with European fascism. Dammit, dammit, dammit dammit! Our pool is becoming dangerously shrunken.

The way of truth is narrow.

181 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:52:29pm

Please read the statement of goals I posted above. Carefully. What they are advocating will astound you, and I don't mean in a good way.

182 Aye Pod  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:52:43pm

re: #164 Irish Rose

/understatement

It's a British thing.

183 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:52:45pm

re: #178 realwest

LoL... I paid for it

184 davinvalkri  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:53:00pm

re: #177 LudwigVanQuixote

There is one good thing about this tragedy. It is that we have this site. Charles has done the right thing yet again. This is the second time today you have impressed me with your actions - if you drink a beer, I'll buy you one.

By outing this freak, this site maintains it's own legitimacy as a reasoned voice against both the evil within and the evil without.

I am still in a little shock, but hang tough. Things are going to get a lot more bumpy once the left gets a hold of these creeps' real views. On the other hand, these neo-nazis would destroy everything we have worth fighting for. One group of thugs vs. another.

We now have a two front war.

We've done two-front wars before. We can do it again. Knock the living stuffing out of fascism from both sides of Eurabia.

185 jaunte  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:53:27pm

re: #177 LudwigVanQuixote

We now have a two front war.

Just remember this:
Image: chesty1.0.jpg

186 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:53:43pm

re: #151 NoelArmourson

Just on BBC TV news-Two satellites collided in orbit 800 km above Siberia-one a US communications satellite, one a defunct Russian military satellite-debris cloud may be a problem for the space station.

It was only a matter of time. Near-Earth orbit space is getting very crowded.

187 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:53:50pm

re: #184 davinvalkri

Europeans must help themselves first and foremost but on that note I am terribly hopeless.

188 LynnfromNZ  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:53:53pm

This can't be anything but an elaborate joke.

189 davinvalkri  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:54:01pm

re: #180 Gearhead

The way of truth is narrow.

Yeah, but you'd think on a matter like this, the truth would be blazingly obvious and universally supported, and these splintering buggers would be loathed. Ah well.

190 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:54:17pm

re: #188 LynnfromNZ

what joke?

191 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:54:18pm

re: #172 winston06

Stand up tall like a human, or squirm like a worm; its your choice. The suggestion to wait and see how Mr. Spencer responds is, I think, naive. He made the choice to 1) join the groups and 2) disseminate the same message elsewhere (see #98 above). Nothing he can say will obviate those facts. While he might provide rationalizations (and there's nothing rational about those), he cannot talk his way out of facts and expecting him to say something to sooth you is... well... weak.

192 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:54:22pm

re: #133 zionismrules

GAZE

193 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:54:53pm

re: #191 Dan G.

I am weighing the option of sending this page to my friends who like Spencer. See what they say

194 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:55:14pm

re: #177 LudwigVanQuixote


By outing this freak, this site maintains it's own legitimacy as a reasoned voice against both the evil within and the evil without.

Amen.

195 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:55:29pm

re: #181 Charles

Please read the statement of goals I posted above. Carefully. What they are advocating will astound you, and I don't mean in a good way.

The complete unilateral and unnegotiable permanent ethnic transformation of theses territories in order to coopt the first aim.

Should be enough by itself.

196 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:55:58pm

re: #185 jaunte

Just remember this:
[Link: photos1.blogger.com...]

Amen.

197 miguelj  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:56:09pm

I figured this whole thing for satire, but then learned that Spencer is of Middle Eastern Christian origin (Melkite Catholic), so that may explain some of this:
his ethnic group, like many others, has an extreme wing and he's apparently joined it--in a fit of moral blindness and disregard for reputation.

Thing is, most Anatolian Greeks and Armenians I know don't waste a lot of energy on serious attempts to overthrow Islam in their former homelands.
I *still* say it's satire, dammit! He's doing it to satirize Palestinian Islamic extremism: i.e if his Reconquista is genocidal cuckoo, then so is theirs!
Anyone agree with me?

198 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:56:13pm

I can haz theses territories?

199 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:56:23pm

re: #193 winston06

This topic is an acid test; it won't burn those you should befriend.

200 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:57:09pm

re: #197 miguelj

Head, meet sand.

201 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:57:14pm

re: #191 Dan G.

Stand up tall like a human, or squirm like a worm; its your choice. The suggestion to wait and see how Mr. Spencer responds is, I think, naive. He made the choice to 1) join the groups and 2) disseminate the same message elsewhere (see #98 above). Nothing he can say will obviate those facts. While he might provide rationalizations (and there's nothing rational about those), he cannot talk his way out of facts and expecting him to say something to sooth you is... well... weak.

This is it, in a nutshell.
He has no excuse.

202 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:57:14pm

re: #193 winston06

I am weighing the option of sending this page to my friends who like Spencer. See what they say

Keep the ones who say "Thank you."

203 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:57:53pm

Horrifying:

This group entirely understands and accepts that this project will require the displacement of up to 150 million persons, an armed and paramilitarily active settler rediaspora of at least 15 million economically viable semi-civilian colonists, an occupation force consisting of at least 2 million professional troops, a military presents in all territories between Anatolia and West Turkestan and anything between 0.5 and 5 trillion dollars worth of fiscal capital in order to complete. Furthermore this group also realises that the territories for resettlement in lower central Asia may not be currently suitable for such a large demographic intake and that therefore, mass sterilisation via sexual segregation and voluntary euthenasia programmes (may for the time being), need to remain on the table in order to prevent a latter humanitarian disaster.

204 Aye Pod  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:58:02pm

re: #105 Cato the Elder

Something else to reflect on - Medaura exposed his connection to an extremely dodgy serbian group last year, and all he managed to do to her was try to smear her from the pages of his blog.

205 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:58:02pm

re: #199 Dan G.

I just began notifying them about it

206 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:58:03pm

Charles, have you any way to capture all the current members of the "Anatolia" group before it disappears? Might be useful for the record.

207 Killer Tomato  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:58:12pm

I just have this loop playing in my head of a woman holding an infant in one arm and holding the hand of a toddler who's dragging a teddy bear behind him with her aged father shuffling alongside being prodded along at the point of a bayonet.
I gotta get out of here for awhile.
Later, all.

208 MAVCON  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:58:41pm

Spencer is a smart guy. I think there will be a credible explanation, somehow or another. I hate to see Jihad Watch and LGF going at it like this. Of course Charles's position is correct in the long run, however you won't find a more factual Islamist buster than Spencer. It's a damn shame.

209 freetoken  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:58:52pm

re: #197 miguelj

It it is an attempt at satire, it failed.

210 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:59:20pm

re: #208 MAVCON

Bernard Lewis is the man. I think Spencer often plays the role of a fear monger

211 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 9:59:41pm

re: #203 Charles

Horrifying:

It is horrifying.
My God.

212 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:00:00pm

Nothing like trying to win the hearts and minds of the folks in the ME . . .

The religious zealots of the West, the anti-jihad zealots and the useful idiots at their disposal have re-defined conservatism in the public mind. Hence, we have Obama.

Like it or not, the label is now poison.

I refuse to use it. I can only fall-back on Classical Liberal.

213 LynnfromNZ  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:00:10pm

re: #190 winston06

Grinding up everything post-1453 in Istanbul and dumping it in the sea? Come on, people. You take this seriously? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

214 davinvalkri  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:00:12pm

re: #203 Charles

And they get takers for that crud?

215 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:00:19pm

re: #208 MAVCON

It is a damned shame. But it is a fact and one cannot turn a blind eye to facts and not feel the sting of reality.

216 Dustyvet  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:00:29pm

re: #178 realwest

Yep. Although fortunately for me I didn't put any money in his pocket, his book was loaned to me by a friend!

I was given a copy for Christmas, I just walked down the hall to the trash shut, opened the door and dropped Spencer's book 5 story's to the dumpster.

217 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:00:51pm

re: #213 LynnfromNZ

Well I take the thought of genocide seriously, Yes.

218 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:00:54pm

re: #188 LynnfromNZ

This can't be anything but an elaborate joke.

'fraid not.

219 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:01:13pm

DO NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS!

I know there's a tendency to not give a person the benefit of the doubt when guilt by association is possible, and Spencer is sympathetic to Wilders, and Wilders is allegedly linked to some radical right group.

I've only looked at this for a few minutes but there are some reasons to doubt that Spencer is a genocidal maniac:

Spencer is an esteemed writer and orator. He's published numerous books and had high level speaking engagements. On his website, he goes to great lengths to explain that he isn't anti-Muslim or a white supremacist in the FAQs section under his profile. He explains that he wants to "defend universal human rights".

Considering all this, answer the following questions:

1) Anyone can recognise that openly advocating genocide is something of a reputation destroyer. EVEN IF he actually entertained such ideas privately, why would he ever make it public and thereby risk his lucrative and successful career? Sacrifice all that, and for what...? To join a facebook group?! It doesn't make sense.

2) Why would a person take so much time and such pains to dispel rumours that he is anti-Muslim and a supremacist, only to confirm them so casually and publicly? This behaviour is contradictory and doesn't make sense.

I can't read Greek but on the message board for that group there is a some copy-pasted text about Greek hackers. This may or may not be relevant. Do you know how easy it is to set up a Facebook profile using a fake name or celebrity name in order to make fun of them? Do you know how easy it is to add friends? And how easy it is to crack a password?

DO NOT JUMP TO CONCLUSIONS. I am shocked and taken aback that this was posted by Charles and Cato without contacting Spencer for comment. How can we criticise MSM news sources for not presenting the other side or not investigating all the facts and just publishing unquestioningly when we do it too?

220 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:01:13pm

re: #204 Jimmah

Something else to reflect on - Medaura exposed his connection to an extremely dodgy serbian group last year, and all he managed to do to her was try to smear her from the pages of his blog.

I remember that.

221 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:01:16pm

I can't get the date-range function in the search to work at all. It's beginning to frustrate me, as each time I click a date on the calandar, the dates in the box both change to the same day, same year. fuggit

222 dapperdave  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:01:31pm

"This group entirely understands and accepts that this project will require the displacement of up to 150 million persons"

I'm sure Murtha will set up a nice home for them.

223 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:02:10pm

re: #212 ggt

I agree 100%. But I, personally, am trying to refrain from the "classical" modifier in that I want to rip the term entirely away from the communists; leftists have NEVER had anything to do with freedom/liberty.

224 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:02:24pm

re: #213 LynnfromNZ

Grinding up everything post-1453 in Istanbul and dumping it in the sea? Come on, people. You take this seriously? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

The Wansee Protocol was dismissed as insane.
It was horrifyingly real.

225 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:02:29pm

re: #206 Cato the Elder

Charles, have you any way to capture all the current members of the "Anatolia" group before it disappears? Might be useful for the record.

There are 351 members. 35 pages. Don't have time to save all of them.

226 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:02:49pm

re: #166 Charles Huh. Does this group that Spencer joined have a list of it's members or it's friends on Facebook?

227 sleepyone  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:03:12pm

I guess I 'm not up to date on the Spencer controversy here but I have one of his books and have heard him on radio and thought he was quite compelling. Have I missed something?

Forgive my ignorance.....

228 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:03:45pm

re: #223 Dan G.

I agree 100%. But I, personally, am trying to refrain from the "classical" modifier in that I want to rip the term entirely away from the communists; leftists have NEVER had anything to do with freedom/liberty.

What term then?

229 davinvalkri  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:04:05pm

re: #227 sleepyone

I guess I 'm not up to date on the Spencer controversy here but I have one of his books and have heard him on radio and thought he was quite compelling. Have I missed something?

Forgive my ignorance.....

Sigh...we've lost another anti-jihadist to the song of European fascist resurgence. It's pathetic, really.

230 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:04:09pm

re: #219 No Dhummi

"That which is proved by few facts, is done so needlessly by more"

231 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:04:14pm

I had a snarky comment I was going to post, but no. Not when we are discussing the fate of 150 million people.

Furthermore this group also realises that the territories for resettlement in lower central Asia may not be currently suitable for such a large demographic intake and that therefore, mass sterilisation via sexual segregation and voluntary euthenasia programmes (may for the time being), need to remain on the table in order to prevent a latter humanitarian disaster.

Sexual segregation? Voluntary euthenasia?

Cultural revolution China would look like a kindergarten.

What sane human being could actually type all of this? My snarky comments (which I was going to write) about starting a group on Facebook for the reconquista of the dessert world for chocolate look positively rational in comparison.

232 Gearhead  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:04:33pm
...resettlement in lower central Asia...

Let's see, that would be Iran Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Take a bunch of Muslims, piss them off royally, and put them in proximity to 1)Ahmadinejad and 2) the Taliban.

Splendid plan, this.

233 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:04:51pm
This group entirely understands and accepts that this project will require ... anything between 0.5 and 5 trillion dollars worth of fiscal capital in order to complete

That'll buy a bunch of euthanasia supplies.

/

234 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:04:55pm

re: #228 ggt

"Liberal" without the classical modifier because it concedes too much to the leftists and confuses the term, I believe.

235 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:05:16pm

I'm trying to dig up what other posts this "zionismrules" has posted on. I can't get the date range thing to work for beans. I wish I could just type it in the damn field instead of using that calandar thing, which appears to do absolutely nothing that I tell it to. It's doing something, but not anything resembling logical.

Lotsa folks with very few posts in a long time poppin up outa the woodwork all of a sudden here to defend Spencer. Some sense is going off in me...don't know what.

236 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:05:27pm

re: #225 Charles
Charles - with respect, and without knowing how much time it would take, it seems to me that capturing or getting a screen shot of all the members could proved to be useful as hell someday.

237 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:05:28pm

re: #213 LynnfromNZ

Grinding up everything post-1453 in Istanbul and dumping it in the sea? Come on, people. You take this seriously? That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

It is absolutely not a joke. Read the comments posted by members. Look at the videos.

Nobody 'jokes' like this.

238 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:05:29pm

re: #232 Gearhead

And it is moronic to imagine how they are gonna do it. Turkey and her neighbors are all part of NATO now. What the heck are these morons talking about ?

LOL

239 miguelj  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:05:40pm

209 freetoken: I agree. I think it is a misguided failed attempt at satire.
Even that explanation diminishes Spencer, but I think that is how he will explain it. Read the statement of goals again: isn't it the mirror-image of the jihad vemom that Spencer combats? If that's not satire, what is?

Charals, what do you think? Any chance at all that this is would-be satire in very bad taste?

240 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:06:13pm

re: #224 jcm

The Wansee Protocol was dismissed as insane.
It was horrifyingly real.

To be fair, however, (though why should I bother?) these are not people who have the means or the influence to even dream of doing such a thing. This is a bunch of people on FaceBook fantasizing about how cool it would be if they could kill everyone they don't like, and make the world like they want it.

The Turks can sleep soundly tonight.

It's still racist and disgusting.

241 DebbieSym  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:06:15pm

Before I pass judgment, I would like to Hear Robert Spencer's explanation. I would be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I have respected his work very much, and I don't want to be disappointed. I will wait to hear what he has to say.

242 capitalist piglet  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:06:27pm

re: #236 realwest

Charles - with respect, and without knowing how much time it would take, it seems to me that capturing or getting a screen shot of all the members could proved to be useful as hell someday.

Maybe some folks with Facebook accounts could help?

243 laxmatt1984  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:06:52pm

Wasn't this settled?

244 LynnfromNZ  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:06:57pm

re: #224 jcm

Puh-leeze. You think somebody has the capability to assemble 2 million professional soldiers, $5 trillion, and the will to destroy every building built in Istanbul since 1453, including all the beautiful old buildings built by Greeks and Armenians and other foreigners over the past couple hundred years? I can't believe anybody takes these jokers seriously.

245 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:07:04pm

re: #219 No Dhummi

Do you know how easy it is to set up a Facebook profile using a fake name or celebrity name in order to make fun of them? Do you know how easy it is to add friends? And how easy it is to crack a password?

Facebook has gone through a lot of hacking attempts and their system is now extremely secure. It is NOT easy to do any of those things.

246 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:07:29pm

re: #234 Dan G.

"Liberal" without the classical modifier because it concedes too much to the leftists and confuses the term, I believe.

"Classical Liberal"

247 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:07:58pm

re: #239 miguelj

209 freetoken: I agree. I think it is a misguided failed attempt at satire.
Even that explanation diminishes Spencer, but I think that is how he will explain it. Read the statement of goals again: isn't it the mirror-image of the jihad vemom that Spencer combats? If that's not satire, what is?

Charals, what do you think? Any chance at all that this is would-be satire in very bad taste?

There are 351 members! Read the comments they've been posting. Then wake up and smell the coffee.

248 Gearhead  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:08:05pm

re: #238 winston06

And it is moronic to imagine how they are gonna do it. Turkey and her neighbors are all part of NATO now. What the heck are these morons talking about ?

LOL

Stupidity on this level usually requires copious amounts of tequila and or Jaegermeister.

249 karmic_inquisitor  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:08:23pm

Looks like the Ad Council's campaign "Friends don't let friends campaign for genocide" isn't working out that well.

250 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:08:27pm

Oh, here's some possible evidence that this was either some elaborate joke or a hacker job:

In the image, it says "All Anatolia peninsula and cyprus are belong to us!"

This is a play off the phrase "All your base are belong to us", which comes from a very well known video game that a very poor Japanese-to-English translation. It's a well known internet meme, especially among 4chan users.

This group isn't serious. Whether a hacker altered the group description or hacked Spencer's account, or whether someone just made up Spencer's account in order to make fun of them, I don't know.

What I do know is that someone should have contacted Spencer about this before posting this potentially damaging and false material.

251 dapperdave  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:08:38pm

re: #237 Charles

Charles, they might be serious but are they capable?

252 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:09:05pm

re: #235 Taqiyyotomist

Lotsa folks with very few posts in a long time poppin up outa the woodwork all of a sudden here to defend Spencer. Some sense is going off in me...don't know what.

And I mean a whole lot. This thing spread like wildfire.

253 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:09:32pm

re: #244 LynnfromNZ

Puh-leeze. You think somebody has the capability to assemble 2 million professional soldiers, $5 trillion, and the will to destroy every building built in Istanbul since 1453, including all the beautiful old buildings built by Greeks and Armenians and other foreigners over the past couple hundred years? I can't believe anybody takes these jokers seriously.

As I said above, I think the Turks can sleep soundly tonight. However, anyone who claims to be a scholar and a good person should damn well know to stay away from this kind of play.

254 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:09:37pm

re: #247 Charles

There are 351 members! Read the comments they've been posting. Then wake up and smell the coffee.

How many of these posters consider themselves "christian"?

255 freetoken  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:09:54pm

re: #239 miguelj

Well, I mis-typed my reply. It should have been "If it is satire..."

If it was intended as satire, it is in very poor taste and foolish.

If Spencer is serious about being a member of said group, then it legitimately discredits him.

I tried upstream to come up with some sort of reason why someone who did not believe in the tenets of a group would nevertheless join... but that was pretty much shot down.

So, we have what we have. Now, the thing to do is see what pops up on Spencer's own site.

256 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:10:02pm

re: #206 Cato the Elder

Charles, have you any way to capture all the current members of the "Anatolia" group before it disappears? Might be useful for the record.

Cato, you got the hat tip for this. How did this come to your attention?

257 venjanz  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:10:03pm

re: #234 Dan G.

This is why I Like the Political Compass. The X Left-Right axis denotes economic views, and the Y axis denotes social views.

258 Noam Sayin'  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:10:25pm

Haven't read the whole thread. Has anyone heard from Spencer on this?

259 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:10:40pm

re: #252 Taqiyyotomist

And I mean a whole lot. This thing spread like wildfire.

Ditto that.

260 davinvalkri  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:10:42pm

re: #250 No Dhummi

Oh, here's some possible evidence that this was either some elaborate joke or a hacker job:

In the image, it says "All Anatolia peninsula and cyprus are belong to us!"

This is a play off the phrase "All your base are belong to us", which comes from a very well known video game that a very poor Japanese-to-English translation. It's a well known internet meme, especially among 4chan users.

That part alone could be a joke, but I've seen that meme referenced on some very serious sites.

261 miguelj  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:11:16pm

Charles, I am not saying the site is a joke. Obviously there are such people.
I'm saying Spencer--in a fit of dopiness-- may have thought he could use them to make a satirical point.

262 Dekar  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:11:36pm

re: #250 No Dhummi

Oh, here's some possible evidence that this was either some elaborate joke or a hacker job:

In the image, it says "All Anatolia peninsula and cyprus are belong to us!"

This is a play off the phrase "All your base are belong to us", which comes from a very well known video game that a very poor Japanese-to-English translation. It's a well known internet meme, especially among 4chan users.

This group isn't serious. Whether a hacker altered the group description or hacked Spencer's account, or whether someone just made up Spencer's account in order to make fun of them, I don't know.

What I do know is that someone should have contacted Spencer about this before posting this potentially damaging and false material.

Or they're just Greek nationals and have bad English grammar..

263 William_Ryan  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:11:45pm

I'm a big fan of this site but I don't agree with the Spencer is evil stuff.

With all the Spam and stuff you get on Facebook from 'Friends', it's easy for someone to join a group without knowing much about it.

Facebook lets you essentially spam groups of your friends and I get several Group requests every day, many from people I only know tangentially. When i first joined Facebook - I used to just approve everything - until I got burned with it.

Someone like Spencer probably gets a ton of these every day and it'd be very easy to just approve it based on just trusting an acquaintence.

Additionally, it's very possible that someone else helps manage Spencer's FB account - I know it's very common for high profile people on twitter for instance, to have someone handle the account for them

If Spencer stays in this group then I'll be the first to agree that it's unsavory to say the least - but I'm not going to throw stones when I (and a lot of people I know on FB have done the same thing, especially when they are still new to it).

264 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:12:42pm

re: #248 Gearhead

yeah... and i m going to sleep... got a full day ahead of me tomorrow. have a good night

265 Dekar  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:12:48pm

I didn't think he actually believed this garbage until I saw post #98

266 winston06  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:13:05pm

re: #258 Noam Sayin'

nah

267 sherman1229  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:13:13pm

I'm a somewhat regular reader of both LGF and Jihad Watch. The last I remembered, both sites shared similar ideologies when it came to Islam and often mentioned the other and linked to each other..... what happened? I have only just recently noticed the rift between the two. When did this happen? What set it off?

268 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:13:19pm

re: #244 LynnfromNZ

Puh-leeze. You think somebody has the capability to assemble 2 million professional soldiers, $5 trillion, and the will to destroy every building built in Istanbul since 1453, including all the beautiful old buildings built by Greeks and Armenians and other foreigners over the past couple hundred years? I can't believe anybody takes these jokers seriously.

About means you are correct.

You dismissed the plan as mere ravings. I was just pointing out the same thing was said about the Wansee documents.

Look at Europe, is so hard to picture the economic downturn embodying VB et. al. in Europe and bring the new Nazi's to power?

Address the issue seriously now, will help prevent that.

269 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:13:31pm

re: #261 miguelj

Charles, I am not saying the site is a joke. Obviously there are such people.
I'm saying Spencer--in a fit of dopiness-- may have thought he could use them to make a satirical point.

Ok, then tell us, where has he use them? Meaning "use the group" to make a satirical point.

270 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:13:37pm

All your base are belong to us! (internet meme among video game players)
All Anatolia peninsula and cyprus are belong to us! (this group's image slogan)

This is serious? ORLY?

You should seriously contact Spencer. This isn't real.

271 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:13:51pm

Look.

There is absolutely NO WAY IN HELL I would ever join a group on Facebook without knowing exactly what they stood for. No responsible person does that.

And you don't even have to search to find out what this group stands for. It's right there in black and white, in front of your nose.

272 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:13:51pm

Um, CHARLES - is it just me or do there seem to be an unusually high number of registered LGFer's who have been around for a while (certainly a long way from newbies) who have made very few comments during their registered time here, who are coming "out of the woodwork" to defend Spencer or at least caution you or us to not judge Spence on this; or that maybe someone else joined under his name and photograph and it's not really Robert Spencer of JihadWatch?
Or is it just a perception that I've formed?

273 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:14:12pm

re: #98 Kyriakos

Very interesting. Thank you.

274 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:14:42pm

re: #267 sherman1229

I'm a somewhat regular reader of both LGF and Jihad Watch. The last I remembered, both sites shared similar ideologies when it came to Islam and often mentioned the other and linked to each other..... what happened? I have only just recently noticed the rift between the two. When did this happen? What set it off?

Calls for genocide, mainly. Yeah, we don't dig that...think it's actually evil.

275 Fat Jolly Penguin  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:14:46pm

re: #262 Dekar

Or they're just Greek nationals and have bad English grammar..

Or they think that the kind of shit they're talking about in Charles's #203 is funny, and they're joking around about it.

I can't even wrap my head around that.

276 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:14:47pm

re: #273 Killgore Trout

Very interesting. Thank you.

OT - did you watch?

277 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:14:51pm

Might I remind you that the first resulted from a JAPANESE to English translation, and is the result of the syntax and structure of the Japanese language.

278 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:14:52pm

re: #246 ggt

Yes, but did the classical liberals call themselves that? Or just liberal? The adjective is to set it apart from the leftists who use liberalism as a mask.

279 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:15:25pm

See anyone else we know, as a friend of the most recent member?

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

280 sleepyone  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:15:33pm

I don't know what to think of this. The only thing I can say is that I like what I've read by Spencer. His affiliations may prove problematic but I admit that I'm ignorant of the details. That's why I come to LGF.....

281 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:15:38pm

re: #250 No Dhummi

READ #98

282 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:16:04pm

re: #272 realwest

I've been catching that same vibe.

283 davinvalkri  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:16:05pm

re: #277 No Dhummi

We heard you the first time, but there's plenty of other circumstantial evidence (e.g. # 98) to suggest that Spencer is serious about this big little group. Now be quiet please.

284 Render  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:16:16pm

Charles - If you're still awake - You have inbound.

LIGHT
EM
UP,
R

285 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:16:23pm

re: #272 realwest

Um, CHARLES - is it just me or do there seem to be an unusually high number of registered LGFer's who have been around for a while (certainly a long way from newbies) who have made very few comments during their registered time here, who are coming "out of the woodwork" to defend Spencer or at least caution you or us to not judge Spence on this; or that maybe someone else joined under his name and photograph and it's not really Robert Spencer of JihadWatch?
Or is it just a perception that I've formed?

It's not just you.

286 Render  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:17:04pm

re: #284 Render

Nevermind...

EMILY
LATELA,
R

287 gmsc  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:17:28pm

OT: Republicans Trail Obama Dems By One Point in Poll--Anti-Stimulus Push Is Working

Astonishing news on the generic ballot question. Pollster Scott Rasmussen reports that Democrats are currently ahead of Republicans by only 40 percent to 39 percent. Given that this generic ballot question over the years has tended to understate Republicans' performances in actual elections, one gathers that if the 2010 election for House seats were held today, Republicans would win or come close to winning a majority of seats—which is to say, they would gain about 40 seats. By way of comparison, they gained 52 seats when they won their majority in 1994. This result may just be a momentary blip, which will pass away as quickly as it appeared, and we are a long, long, long way from the November 2010 elections. But if I were a Democratic member of Congress in even a marginally marginal district, I would be just a little bit worried. And if I were a conservative cheerleader against the Obama/Pelosi stimulus package, I would be concentrating less of my fire against the three Republicans who supported the Senate version and more on Democratic members of the House and (at least those who are up for reelection in 2010) the Senate.

288 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:17:42pm

re: #271 Charles

Look.

There is absolutely NO WAY IN HELL I would ever join a group on Facebook without knowing exactly what they stood for. No responsible person does that.

And you don't even have to search to find out what this group stands for. It's right there in black and white, in front of your nose.

Maybe he didn't either. Either way, until you actually contact him and give him fair time to make a response before making all these serious allegations of genocidal intentions based on tentatively linked internet profiles and facebook groups, everything you say is necessarily based on assumption and ignorance of potential circumstances that could change everything.

289 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:17:53pm

re: #280 sleepyone

I don't know what to think of this. The only thing I can say is that I like what I've read by Spencer. His affiliations may prove problematic but I admit that I'm ignorant of the details. That's why I come to LGF.....

And do you have any desire to learn the facts? They have been put forth on LGF for month and months. Is this the first time you've seen anything about it?

290 William_Ryan  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:18:02pm

re: #206 Cato the Elder

With all the stuff that flies around Facebook, this could easily be something Spencer did as an oversight. It's so easy to just do a blanket approval to groups or friends when you get tons of them a day and it's a lot easier for me to believe he did a blanket approval than to believe he read all of that, understood what the group was all about, and publicly joined it with full knowledge of what it was about.

So the group might go away and/or he might quit the group and it signify nothing more than him realizing he made a mistake.


Are you seriously convinced that intentionality is an easier explanation to believe than mistaken Facebook account management? I'm not.

291 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:18:25pm

re: #272 realwest

They have skin in this game...

292 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:18:29pm

re: #270 No Dhummi

All your base are belong to us! (internet meme among video game players)
All Anatolia peninsula and cyprus are belong to us! (this group's image slogan)

This is serious? ORLY?

You should seriously contact Spencer. This isn't real.

The video game was by Japanese programmers for who English was not a first language.
You may be correct.

But English sentence structure is not easy. I'm a native and it still baffles me. For foreigners to come up with a similar sentence structure is pretty likely.

293 SFGoth  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:18:32pm

Here's my take on theology, adapting what I learned in Hebrew school with my lying eyes: One day, not long after god gave birth to the nations of the Earth, she was eating a dove bar when she realized that they were all acting like jerks. Especially the Assyrians, which is where the term "asshole" comes from. Anyway, so she went to each of them, offered them the 10 commandments, and said, "I need a volunteer to set the right example." Well, as you learn in the Army, don't volunteer. Since in those days there were lots of armies, no one volunteered. Then she came to the vilest, evilest, money-grubbingest group around, the Jews, who had slaughtered all the Palestinians and fixed the Zurich silver market, but the gefilte fish! Surprisingly, they said yes, they would take the challenge. So they took the 10 (originally 15) commandments and adopted these crazy laws that required them to aid their enemies, grow fruit in the desert, go to medical school, call their mother, that sort of thing. But anyway, to make this serious, and maybe I'm a little invested, but I see Judaism as a religion of compassion. That's why we see Israel doing its best to minimize civilian casualties while those paragons of virtue (Muslims) do their best to cause them. In short, how the world treats the Jewish nation reflects the goodness, or evil, of the world, and as long as the rest of the world shits on the Jewish nation, evil rules this world. Until hating Jews is no longer a recreational sport, suffering will be the predominant state of existence for the world.

294 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:18:57pm
295 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:19:08pm

re: #276 Walter L. Newton

Yes, it was a very good episode. I was a little preoccupied so I'm looking forward to the subtitled version next week. They are doing a great job with the time travel. It's plausable, easy to follow but not too dumbed down. I think they have the mix pretty much right. My only complaint is that the little busty chick with the goofy accent wasn't in the episode this week.

296 Aye Pod  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:19:51pm

re: #203 Charles

It's a blatantly and proudly fascist group which clearly admires nazi aims and methods. re: #197 miguelj

Nope. This is not satire. The following paragraphs for example clearly make no sense whatsover as part of a parody of Palestinian/Arab belligerence and can be seen as nothing but an attempt to put a veneer of moral legitimacy on their own racism:

4. If you are a full blood White then try to live within a predominantly White area, especially if you are raising offspring of compatibly similar racial stock! - This does not however, mean that you should be unfriendly towards non-White people, on the contrary the more friendly towards all races and peoples you are the more your concerns will benefit from even handed recognition!

5. Do not use collective racial hatered of an entire group or disproportionate violence against ethnic minorities in order to prosecute your legitimate anxieties over the destruction of your people's ethnic sovereignty in their own native lands, as this only adds fuel to the liberal-left propaganda machine!

6. Do not try to 'brainwash' your children into taking your political philosophy at face value, as this invariably results in the alienation of the young and the further fragmentation of national society. Instead allow your children to mix freely with the world around them, but at the same time guide them away from Marxo-Nihilist political agendas such as 'Muliculturalism', 'Cultural Relativism', 'Colonial Guilt', 'Holocaust Guilt', 'Islamic Integration', 'Positive Discrimination' and 'Affirmative Action'!

297 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:19:56pm

re: #267 sherman1229

I'm a somewhat regular reader of both LGF and Jihad Watch. The last I remembered, both sites shared similar ideologies when it came to Islam and often mentioned the other and linked to each other..... what happened? I have only just recently noticed the rift between the two. When did this happen? What set it off?

You missed the whole VB flap? That's only been going on for a year.

298 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:19:57pm

re: #279 Charles

Heh. This is just insane.

299 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:20:02pm

re: #288 No Dhummi

Maybe he didn't either. Either way, until you actually contact him and give him fair time to make a response before making all these serious allegations of genocidal intentions based on tentatively linked internet profiles and facebook groups, everything you say is necessarily based on assumption and ignorance of potential circumstances that could change everything.

I have reached the end of civilty. YOU MORON! Go read more. Read post #98. Are you ignoring every single comment toward you? The man has a history of association with and touting ideas which have increasingly lined up with these people. Don't be frikkin dense here, it doesn't wash.

300 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:20:03pm

re: #241 DebbieSym
I can understand you're wanting to hear what Spencer has to say about this, but suppose he says nothing? Or suppose he, once again, attacks Charles and some of the LGFers out here, without explicitly denying his Facebook account and membership in that group?
This is nothing new in one repsect: Spencer has in fact said truly flat out hateful things about Charles before, in part at least because Charles has called Spencer out on his ties to White Nationalists, Vlaams Belang, Brussels Journal, etc. who are in fact European White Nationalists.

301 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:20:15pm

re: #148 Irish Rose

Quite a few of us have been trashed, and would like an explanation for this abomination.

Indeed.

302 miguelj  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:20:17pm

Walter Newton - in an earlier post I said I thought the satirical point was that this group's language mirrors that of Islamic extremism--i.e. if its aims are genocidal cuckoo, then so are the jihadis' aim likewise genocidal cuckoo.

It's satire in poor taste, yes, but what else explains this whole thing?

303 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:20:34pm

re: #288 No Dhummi

Everything I have posted is factual. And maybe you've missed it, but Spencer has been viciously attacking me at his blog, and at other blogs, for months now.

304 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:20:39pm

re: #261 miguelj

No- he's hung with ethnic nationalists before.

305 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:20:40pm

re: #295 Killgore Trout

Yes, it was a very good episode. I was a little preoccupied so I'm looking forward to the subtitled version next week. They are doing a great job with the time travel. It's plausable, easy to follow but not too dumbed down. I think they have the mix pretty much right. My only complaint is that the little busty chick with the goofy accent wasn't in the episode this week.

Ot - busty chick, goofy accent? Any more on the description?

306 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:20:47pm

re: #279 Charles

There's also a list of "Haven't Replied"(I guess to the invitation to join).

And the group's admin has an interesting avatar.

307 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:21:21pm

re: #219 No Dhummi

re: #272 realwest

Um, CHARLES - is it just me or do there seem to be an unusually high number of registered LGFer's who have been around for a while (certainly a long way from newbies) who have made very few comments during their registered time here, who are coming "out of the woodwork" to defend Spencer or at least caution you or us to not judge Spence on this; or that maybe someone else joined under his name and photograph and it's not really Robert Spencer of JihadWatch?
Or is it just a perception that I've formed?

No, it's not just you. And that "All your base" stuff is odd. That said, if Robert Spencer is innocent, let him say so and show how he was hacked. At present, the preponderance of the evidence is against him.

308 sleepyone  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:21:22pm

re: #289 Walter L. Newton

And do you have any desire to learn the facts? They have been put forth on LGF for month and months. Is this the first time you've seen anything about it?

I have seen derogatory comment about Spencer but I guess I didn't read the articles or comments in any detail. Perhaps my admiration for his writings was coloring my hesitation in reading something that may color my perception of him in a negative way.

309 BlueCanuck  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:21:23pm

re: #288 No Dhummi

Well as a face book user myself, it's pretty difficult for me to join just any random group. First I get the invite, then I check it out, then I decide to join or not. It's not a simple one click and join from your face book invite page. So I have to believe he joined this of his own free will.

310 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:21:37pm

re: #242 capitalist piglet
Oh I agree and I would except a) I don't have a Facebook account and don't want one and b) I don't know how to do a screenshot.

311 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:21:42pm

re: #257 venjanz

This is why I Like the Political Compass. The X Left-Right axis denotes economic views, and the Y axis denotes social views.

I'm to the right, but left of Milton Freidman.

I'm too tired to try to understand that right now.

312 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:21:59pm

re: #279 Charles

See anyone else we know, as a friend of the most recent member?

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

UGH!

313 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:22:32pm

The lengths some people will go to to explain this away.... Amazing.

314 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:22:33pm

re: #303 Charles

Everything I have posted is factual. And maybe you've missed it, but Spencer has been viciously attacking me at his blog, and at other blogs, for months now.

Yeah, NoDhummi has missed it.

315 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:22:34pm

re: #283 davinvalkri

We heard you the first time, but there's plenty of other circumstantial evidence (e.g. # 98) to suggest that Spencer is serious about this big little group. Now be quiet please.

Lovely. So first we criticise the MSM for one-sided reporting, then do it ourselves. Next we criticise countries for limiting people's speech, then we also do it ourselves?

Charles can ban me if he feels that maintaining reasonable doubt, assuming good faith of people who have never given reason to doubt, and attempting to defend a person who hasn't been given the opportunity to defend himself is ban-worthy. But until he bans me, please don't try to tell me to stop posting.

316 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:22:39pm

re: #302 miguelj

Walter Newton - in an earlier post I said I thought the satirical point was that this group's language mirrors that of Islamic extremism--i.e. if its aims are genocidal cuckoo, then so are the jihadis' aim likewise genocidal cuckoo.

It's satire in poor taste, yes, but what else explains this whole thing?

What else explains it?

They're serious.

317 William_Ryan  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:22:42pm

re: #271 Charles
Right Charles. but you're a very careful guy and a lot more savvy than Spencer technically. When I first joined FB i used to just approve everything until I learned the hard way why that's not a wise thing to do. It made me a little careless and naive but nothing more nefarious. After the 2nd time it happened and I realized that a Communist friend of mine gave me a really bad suggestion - I got more careful. So I quit the group - not b/c I was 'caught' or anything of the sort but b/c I did something careless.

I'm going with Occham here - It's a lot easier for me to believe that he accidentally hit Join Group than it is for me to believe he's both Stupid and Masochistic.

318 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:22:52pm

re: #305 Walter L. Newton
The short blonde chick with the big bazookas that took Faraday to the atomic bomb last week. Her accent is either South African or New Zealand, I can't tell.

319 venjanz  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:22:52pm

re: #271 Charles

Heh. About a month ago I was asked to join what amounted to a LGF stalker-blog/neo-nazi ring because I posted a comment on a blog who was linked to a blog, that had a link to another blog, who had a link to a blog that was written by somebody you kicked out.

They all had links and sympathized with these European neo-nazi groups.

Good lesson here... Don't join a group just because they invite you.

320 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:23:40pm

re: #302 miguelj

Walter Newton - in an earlier post I said I thought the satirical point was that this group's language mirrors that of Islamic extremism--i.e. if its aims are genocidal cuckoo, then so are the jihadis' aim likewise genocidal cuckoo.

It's satire in poor taste, yes, but what else explains this whole thing?

Ah, genocidal racist would be first on my list, but, you know, that's just me. Gee, when people mention, in detail, things that are mentioned on that page, when they take a lot of time and effort to keep the site up to date, when moderators and members keep up the "satire" for months without one little slip, without one little LOL, without one little...

Well, you get my point.

321 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:23:44pm

re: #313 Sharmuta

The lengths some people will go to to explain this away.... Amazing.

I'll cut them some slack for now. I'm still coming to grips with this.

322 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:23:48pm

re: #279 Charles
OK, who the hell is George H McCallum ?

323 NY Nana  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:23:57pm

re: #279 Charles

/I assume that the ever-shy, withdrawn, buddy of Vlaams Belang et al, Atlas has been mentioned.

324 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:24:05pm

re: #251 dapperdave

Charles, they might be serious but are they capable?

Does it matter? Do you want to sign up with a group that advocates genocide even if they can't achieve it?

325 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:24:14pm

re: #292 jcm

The video game was by Japanese programmers for who whom English was not a first language.
You may be correct.

But English sentence structure is not easy. I'm a native and it still baffles me. For foreigners to come up with a similar sentence structure is pretty likely.

Sorry about that but it does show that even us native speakers can trip over linguistic rules at times.

326 SFGoth  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:24:22pm

re: #292 jcm

The video game was by Japanese programmers for who English was not a first language.


For "whom". ;->

327 sleepyone  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:24:24pm

re: #297 jcm

You missed the whole VB flap? That's only been going on for a year.

Yeah, I remember the VB flap. I guess tonight I can't recall Spencer's role in it.

328 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:24:48pm

re: #307 Dark_Falcon

There were other comments at the site's forum that appeared and were gone within the time I was perusing. One of them was obviously posted by a Turk proudly proclaiming the masculinity of the Turkish male... Sure, some guys might get into the group and make it look comical, but the the group's writings/stated goals are not comical.

329 Aye Pod  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:24:53pm

Spencer is toast.

330 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:25:17pm

re: #278 Dan G.

Yes, but did the classical liberals call themselves that? Or just liberal? The adjective is to set it apart from the leftists who use liberalism as a mask.

Well, we have to accept today's public perception of labels. In the day, classical liberals, were liberals, IIRC. Not progressives.

Today, they would be considered Classical Liberals.

Although the Political Compass says I'm somewhat of an anarchist. :)

331 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:25:29pm

re: #317 William_Ryan

Sorry- you don't accidentally join a fascist group when you've been hanging with fascists already. Get a clue.

332 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:25:34pm

Honestly, "voluntary euthanasia" is so horrifying, I want to believe that this is the ultimate Moby prank. I am not saying I do believe that. I am saying that I want to believe it.

Why would Spencer ally himself with people who clearly are just a small group of psychos? I mean how big is the Greek neo-fascist movement, and what could he hope to achieve by making friends with them? What is missing to me is his motivation. It's just a bad career move even if he is that evil.

It is possible that he just simply went insane. It certainly looks that way. I am not trying to question anyone's computer fraud sniffing skills when they are clearly better than my own.

All of this makes little sense to me.

That said, I go back to, if this is true, and I believe it is, we have a two front war that just got vastly more difficult because of the repugnance of the other front.

333 acwgusa  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:25:50pm

Robert Spencer may have now become a tool, but his book on Islam is (still) excellent reference material, and will stay on my shelf. That said, I will recommend people buy it second hand for information on Islam, but I will warn them that the author has now become a raving lunatic whose reality check was overdrawn at the bank.

334 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:25:52pm

re: #321 Killgore Trout

You be good cop, I'll be the cop with the clue-by-four.

335 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:26:04pm

re: #315 No Dhummi

Mr. Spencer got to voice his side, see #98, asshole.

336 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:26:14pm

re: #279 Charles

See anyone else we know, as a friend of the most recent member?

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

U r right ---UGH!

337 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:26:57pm

re: #328 Dan G.

There were other comments at the site's forum that appeared and were gone within the time I was perusing. One of them was obviously posted by a Turk proudly proclaiming the masculinity of the Turkish male... Sure, some guys might get into the group and make it look comical, but the the group's writings/stated goals are not comical.

Good point.

338 dapperdave  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:26:58pm

re: #300 realwest

Ah, so there's a trend?

339 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:27:05pm
340 davinvalkri  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:27:14pm

re: #315 No Dhummi

Lovely. So first we criticise the MSM for one-sided reporting, then do it ourselves. Next we criticise countries for limiting people's speech, then we also do it ourselves?

Charles can ban me if he feels that maintaining reasonable doubt, assuming good faith of people who have never given reason to doubt, and attempting to defend a person who hasn't been given the opportunity to defend himself is ban-worthy. But until he bans me, please don't try to tell me to stop posting.

Fine. Talk all you want. All I'm saying is the "Hanlon's Razor" argument only holds if this was an isolated incident. But Charles himself will verify that Spencer has gone off the deep end in the last few months, and this just seems like a natural extension of his new lack of sanity. I wish it wasn't true either, but it looks like Spencer has, once and for all, burned any bridges connecting himself to LGF and the saner side of the anti-jihad movement.

341 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:27:29pm

Charles is still posting new threads? Oh, that's right, it's not 1:26AM there.
Goodnight (*again) all, and keep cool. See what tomorrow brings.

342 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:27:32pm

I've I've read my Thomas Sowell correctlly . . .

the whackos of all flavors seem to think we are playing a zero-sum game. Which, I believe, is a logical/economic fallacy.

(did I read my Thomas Sowell correctly?)

343 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:27:46pm

re: #299 Taqiyyotomist

I have reached the end of civilty. YOU MORON! Go read more. Read post #98. Are you ignoring every single comment toward you? The man has a history of association with and touting ideas which have increasingly lined up with these people. Don't be frikkin dense here, it doesn't wash.

Wow. You believe that what you guys have called "circumstantial evidence" is enough to convict someone of Hitler-like desire for genocide without even hearing what they have to say in their defense?

I only came here to show some reasons why reasonable doubt should be maintained until the whole thing can be sorted out, and people shouldn't rush to conclusions like the Jenin Genocide. My suggestion was to contact him before posting this - a decent gesture and only fair reporting.

For this I get told to stop posting and get called a moron?

344 dapperdave  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:28:04pm

re: #324 Sharmuta

no! absolutely not.

345 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:28:18pm

re: #336 ggt

U r right ---UGH!

I'll see your ugh, and raise you a /puke

346 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:28:28pm

re: #338 dapperdave

Ah, so there's a trend?

Did you see the link in #8?

347 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:28:35pm

For the record, I have written again to Spencer as follows:

Robert,

As you will soon be aware, I have posted a comment about your membership in the vile "Anatolia" group on LGF. The matter has now become a thread of its own. Upon consideration, I could not credit the notion that you might have joined as a joke or without reading the group's goals and proposed methods. Even if by some chance you did so, it shows such a serious lack of judgment in your capacity as a public intellectual of no mean standing that it deserves general notice for that reason alone.

You are free react however you please; however, given the violent rhetoric of some of the people with whom you have chosen to associate yourself, I would request as one human being to another that you identify me only by my pen name, "Cato the Elder", and refrain from publicly divulging my real identity lest some deranged individual should decide to, shall we say, go to extremes. As someone whose own security is threatened by fanatics, you will surely appreciate the reasons for this request.

I trust I can rely on you for that. If not, I will make your exposure of my identity a matter of public record, if only to safeguard myself.

--Cato

348 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:28:36pm

re: #317 William_Ryan

That is not what Occham said. Occham's Razor is, "That which is proven on few facts, is done so needlessly by more." In the context of this issue, Robert's joining the group and dissemination are a few facts that are more than enough and any more facts will not affect the conclusion that he is colluding with disgusting people.

349 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:28:50pm

re: #344 dapperdave

Then why make excuses for someone who would?

350 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:29:00pm

re: #318 Killgore Trout

The short blonde chick with the big bazookas that took Faraday to the atomic bomb last week. Her accent is either South African or New Zealand, I can't tell.

Alexandra Krosney actress. Plays "Ellie," Faraday said she looked familiar, she is probably his mother, Charles Widmore is probably his father.

And of course we see her many years later, in LA, at the church, our madame time tender.

I can't find the birthplace of the actress.

351 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:29:17pm

NoDhummi, for the record, in the 3+ years I've been on LGF, you're the first I've ever called ANY name whatsoever. Congratulations.

352 William_Ryan  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:29:17pm

re: #316 jcm

What else explains it? Carelessly clicking Join Group after a Facebook friend sends you an invite

353 miguelj  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:29:59pm

The people who run the Reconquista site are--I am quite sure--dead serious.
Spencer is going to say--I predict--that his part in it was all an elaborate mockery. Failed and misunderstood, to be sure, but mockery nonetheless.

354 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:30:00pm

Ah, and now I get called an asshole. What incivility towards you did I commit to deserve this abuse?

Guilt by association? Defend a person and you are also guilty of whatever beliefs are being attributed to them at the moment?

Believe whatever you want, but you can't know until you have all the facts, which you don't.

355 dapperdave  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:30:01pm

re: #346 Sharmuta

No I didn't, I don't think I have to if there's a trend then there's a trend.

356 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:30:21pm

re: #343 No Dhummi

Wow. You believe that what you guys have called "circumstantial evidence" is enough to convict someone of Hitler-like desire for genocide without even hearing what they have to say in their defense?

I only came here to show some reasons why reasonable doubt should be maintained until the whole thing can be sorted out, and people shouldn't rush to conclusions like the Jenin Genocide. My suggestion was to contact him before posting this - a decent gesture and only fair reporting.

For this I get told to stop posting and get called a moron?

Are you deliberately ignoring the responses to your posts?

357 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:30:44pm

re: #354 No Dhummi

You can never have all the facts. You, however, are ignoring ALL the facts.

358 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:30:48pm

#98 makes a point I made earlier when Cato first posted this story on a previous thread. robert has had the "Free Constantinope" banner on his site for a long time now, one that I had thought was just a bit of a spoof- a mocking of islamic imperialism and leftist hypocrisy.

Tuns out he's dead serious about it.

359 dapperdave  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:31:13pm

re: #349 Sharmuta

I don't think I made excuses for anybody.

360 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:31:22pm

re: #347 Cato the Elder

Good letter, Cato.

361 SummerSong  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:31:26pm

Is Spencer's LGF account open?

362 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:31:30pm

re: #282 Taqiyyotomist
Thanks - I thought it was just me.

CHARLES - PLEASE see my #272!

363 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:31:43pm

re: #361 SummerSong

No.

364 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:31:45pm

re: #325 Dark_Falcon

Sorry about that but it does show that even us native speakers can trip over linguistic rules at times.

I'm fair game for linguistic clue bats, just ask goddess and R.D.T!
;-)

Don't be sorry!

365 SFGoth  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:31:47pm

re: #342 ggt

I've I've read my Thomas Sowell correctlly . . .

the whackos of all flavors seem to think we are playing a zero-sum game. Which, I believe, is a logical/economic fallacy.

(did I read my Thomas Sowell correctly?)

I can't decide whom I like more, Thomas Sowell or Walter Williams. They're both occasional guests on KSFO radio (560 am, SF) I think they'd make a dynamite tag team if the GOP ever gets its act together and needs some brilliant non-white men to explain economics.

366 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:31:49pm

re: #354 No Dhummi

By repeatedly ignoring the evidence. The facebook group is but one piece, other information was provided and you ignore it and continue to shill. (SEE #98 above).

367 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:32:10pm

re: #356 Charles

A martyr in the making.

368 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:32:37pm

re: #347 Cato the Elder

Thank you. I just wish you would have held off on posting about it until you had received his response. It isn't exactly a pressingly urgent matter, and the group's been around for a couple months.

But in any case, thank you. I look forward to reading the followup so I can have all sides presented to me so I can make and educated determination of what's going on.

369 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:32:57pm

re: #352 William_Ryan

What else explains it? Carelessly clicking Join Group after a Facebook friend sends you an invite

If there wasn't a history over the last year of leaning this direction I might agree with you. Spencer's been getting close and closer to white supremacists for a year.

370 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:33:06pm

LOL what a surreal night. Out for a smoke.

371 gmsc  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:33:14pm

re: #257 venjanz

This is why I Like the Political Compass. The X Left-Right axis denotes economic views, and the Y axis denotes social views.

Economic Left/Right: 5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.95

When you compare my score above to this graph, I'm just a little to the left of Milton Friedman, but not by much.

372 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:33:17pm

re: #354 No Dhummi

Ah, and now I get called an asshole. What incivility towards you did I commit to deserve this abuse?

Guilt by association? Defend a person and you are also guilty of whatever beliefs are being attributed to them at the moment?

Believe whatever you want, but you can't know until you have all the facts, which you don't.

Guilty of refusing to see the evidence. I read your posts and I understand the case you are trying to make. However, the great bulk of the evidence points to guilt. You need to acknowledge that.

373 Aye Pod  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:33:42pm

re: #352 William_Ryan

What else explains it? Carelessly clicking Join Group after a Facebook friend sends you an invite

Given that the group in question is called "Say NO! To A White Ethnic Minority In Europe!", that strikes me as a desperate excuse not an explanation.

374 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:33:42pm

I'm starting to understand the people who say "Pat Buchanan used to be sane. What happened to him?" I think Pat and Spencer are cut from the same cloth, it's easy to get duped. Some people hide their real intentions better than others.

375 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:34:19pm

re: #267 sherman1229
Well a regular reader I doubt:

Registered since: Sep 23, 2008 at 11:37 am
(Logged in)

No. of comments posted: 1
No. of links posted: 0

and your comment at #267 was your one comment since September of 2008.

376 gmsc  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:34:46pm

re: #311 ggt

I'm to the right, but left of Milton Freidman.

I'm too tired to try to understand that right now.

re: #371 gmsc

Economic Left/Right: 5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.95

When you compare my score above to this graph, I'm just a little to the left of Milton Friedman, but not by much.

ggt = gmsc?!?
;)

377 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:34:50pm

re: #371 gmsc

First question, "If economic globalisation is inevitable, it should primarily serve humanity rather than the interests of trans-national corporations." As though corporations are staffed or created by humans... Loaded questions from the get-go; I must be off the chart!

378 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:35:11pm

re: #366 Dan G.

By repeatedly ignoring the evidence. The facebook group is but one piece, other information was provided and you ignore it and continue to shill. (SEE #98 above).

I didn't ignore it. That's what I was referring to when I mentioned what you guys had called "circumstantial evidence", and you guys are right: that's all it is.

Advertising is not endorsed. And possibly someone could have played off that ad and made the facebook group to defame him (as many have trying to do for a long time.) In any case, even in a court of law where the defendant is actually given the chance to present his side, circumstantial evidence isn't taken as all you need to know in order to convict.

379 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:35:24pm

re: #365 SFGoth

I can't decide whom I like more, Thomas Sowell or Walter Williams. They're both occasional guests on KSFO radio (560 am, SF) I think they'd make a dynamite tag team if the GOP ever gets its act together and needs some brilliant non-white men to explain economics.

Walter seems to have a little more personality --kinda like he'd be a really be a really great uncle. Mr. Sowell boggles my mind.

380 gulfloafer  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:35:32pm

I truly don't know what to make of it? I can't see Spencer knowingly discrediting himself by associating with a group like this. You have to admit the site is a little far fetched. Their mission statement reads something like "all we need is somewhere between .5 - 5 trillion dollars and 2 million troops to accomplish our objective." It sounds like the delusions of a bunch of 12 year olds. Then again nothing surprises me anymore. Call him out on it.

381 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:35:36pm

re: #374 Killgore Trout

And when the mask slips, some people would rather ignore it and get back into the comfy warm bed with them.

382 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:35:47pm

re: #368 No Dhummi

Here's a hint- robert's in bed with fascists.

383 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:35:50pm

re: #375 realwest

I've not counted, on this thread, but it's about 10 nics, all here quite a while, all show up, all at once. Someone got out the speeddialer.

384 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:37:04pm

re: #291 Dan G.
Hey Dan G. - they sure as hell do. Sure wish I could get Charles attention to 'em - we have waay too many sleepers here to not chuck 'em out when they are so obvious.

385 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:37:07pm

re: #383 Taqiyyotomist

It's well known that the friends of robert and pamela read this site still.

386 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:37:19pm

re: #376 gmsc

ggt = gmsc?!?
;)

I'm so tired, I think my first number was in the 2point somethings. I was a little more to the left of Milton that you were. I had absolutely no iconoclasts in my area. ;(

387 William_Ryan  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:37:29pm

re: #331 Sharmuta
Right - because, hey, joining a group that's such a lightning rod would do wonders for his reputation right? It makes perfect sense that he'd publicly join a group with such extreme views. If this was some private group that the public couldn't see-- then I'd be a lot more inclined to believe its intentional.

I'm just some computer geek and occassional facebook user and I've gotten as many as 20 group invites in a day before (not saying I get that many every day by any means, but when it rains it pours) - and to clear out my box and get people to quit bugging me I've hit accept before.

I guess by your standard anyone commits such an oversight is stupid and someone like you could never do such a thing but to the rest of us that aren't so perfect, it's not an uncommon thing to do.

And I'm sure if he did do it by accident, and he quits the group, it'll no doubt be proof that he's guilty right? As opposed to showing he made a mistake.

388 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:37:33pm

re: #378 No Dhummi

This is not a court of law. Robert Spencer has allowed himself to be associated with a truly vile bunch of people. As such he is guilty of very poor judgment at best and advocacy of mass murder at worst.

389 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:37:37pm

re: #372 Dark_Falcon

Guilty of refusing to see the evidence. I read your posts and I understand the case you are trying to make. However, the great bulk of the evidence points to guilt. You need to acknowledge that.

Thank you for the civil response. One of the few tonight.

I can't, because there is so much apparent contradiction in his behaviour. See my first post. This makes no sense. No rational person would act in such a fashion. Even Hitler was rational. The complete contradiction in his apparent behaviour gives me pause and makes it impossible for me to decide one way or the other. There's nagging doubt and it is horrific to make the mistake of falsely accusing someone of desiring genocide, so I must be careful and not assume.

390 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:37:44pm

re: #350 Walter L. Newton

They play a little loose with the accents on the show. The red head who died tonight claimed that she was raised in England after leaving the island as a child but she had an Australian accent. I guess American audiences aren't so picky. Sayid is supposed to be an Iraqi but his accent is British/Pakistani/Indian (in descending order)

391 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:37:58pm

re: #378 No Dhummi

Made the facebook group to defame him!? That is a most egregious pronouncement of ignorance. The explanation of how facebook groups work has been provided in this thread; the situation you state is IMPOSSIBLE.

392 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:38:01pm

I'm shaking my head at the surreal-ness I'm seeing here.

393 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:38:10pm

re: #383 Taqiyyotomist

I've not counted, on this thread, but it's about 10 nics, all here quite a while, all show up, all at once. Someone got out the speeddialer.

You're surprised?

394 Gretchen G.Tiger  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:38:14pm

I gotta sleep.

weet dreams all!

395 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:38:27pm

re: #292 jcm
Hey jcm - kindly see my #272 above.

396 Sleepyone  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:38:47pm

re: #374 Killgore Trout

I'm starting to understand the people who say "Pat Buchanan used to be sane. What happened to him?" I think Pat and Spencer are cut from the same cloth, it's easy to get duped. Some people hide their real intentions better than others.

Do you mean that Spencer has been duped or we the listeners/readers have by their intentions?

397 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:38:59pm

re: #384 realwest

Hey Dan G. - they sure as hell do. Sure wish I could get Charles attention to 'em - we have waay too many sleepers here to not chuck 'em out when they are so obvious.

I see what's going on.

398 NoelArmourson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:39:01pm

re: #380 gulfloafer

They may be delusional wack jobs but that stuff is right out in public in black and white pixels.

399 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:39:08pm

re: #382 Sharmuta

Here's a hint- robert's in bed with fascists.

I'll go one step further; It's really no longer looking like he's in bed with fascists. He is a fascist.

400 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:39:21pm

re: #256 Walter L. Newton

Cato, you got the hat tip for this. How did this come to your attention?

I had Spencer on my "friends" list. I continued to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Mistakes were made.

401 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:39:31pm

re: #383 Taqiyyotomist

re: #16 Dan G.

All, keep an eye "out there" for those who are rushing to his defense with more gusto than is meet; I'd bet that they also have skin in this game.

I'm a Cassandra tonight. ;)

402 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:40:03pm

re: #387 William_Ryan

Maybe you haven't noticed, but robert's been hanging with fascists for awhile now. So no- I don't think it was a mistake.

403 gmsc  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:40:16pm

re: #394 ggt

I gotta sleep.

weet dreams all!

Good night, brother!

404 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:40:45pm

re: #387 William_Ryan

The only way he can show himself to be innocent in my eyes is to honestly and thoroughly repudiate the group's positions. If Jihad Watch runs a post by Spencer that apologizes sincerely for his mistake and clearly condemns genocide and mass deportations, then I will give him the benefit of the doubt. But not until then.

405 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:41:01pm

re: #378 No Dhummi

I didn't ignore it. That's what I was referring to when I mentioned what you guys had called "circumstantial evidence", and you guys are right: that's all it is.

Advertising is not endorsed. And possibly someone could have played off that ad and made the facebook group to defame him (as many have trying to do for a long time.) In any case, even in a court of law where the defendant is actually given the chance to present his side, circumstantial evidence isn't taken as all you need to know in order to convict.


It's on Jihad Watch in a Spencer Post.
re: #86 jcm

The Nakba, May 29, 1453
Posted by Robert at May 29, 2008 11:05 AM

Constantinople: 500 Year of Occupation is Enough.

406 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:41:07pm

re: #399 Killgore Trout

I'll go one step further; It's really no longer looking like he's in bed with fascists. He is a fascist.

I was thinking that just a bit ago. I had called him a fascist apologist months ago. I was wrong. He's a flat out fascist.

407 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:41:16pm

re: #296 Jimmah
Thats a pretty damn thin veneer they got goint there.

408 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:41:18pm

re: #388 Dark_Falcon

This is not a court of law. Robert Spencer has allowed himself to be associated with a truly vile bunch of people. As such he is guilty of very poor judgment at best and advocacy of mass murder at worst.

I know. My point was that even at a time and place where the accused person gets the chance to make a defense before people pass judgment, circumstantial evidence is still not taken as proper, true evidence.

Every word you say is an assumption. Is it Spencer truly? Do you know for sure? How? Did he knowingly allow himself to be associated with them? Do you know for sure? How? Wait till you pass judgment until you have enough evidence and both sides of the argument.

409 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:41:45pm

re: #396 Sleepyone


Do you mean that Spencer has been duped or we the listeners/readers have by their intentions?


I'm thinking Spencer has played us. It's becoming pretty clear that he has strong racist/racialist/ethnic nationalist tendencies. Until this evening I though he was simply kidding himself about the nature of these neo-fascist groups. It turns out that we are the suckers, not him.

410 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:41:54pm

re: #272 realwest

Um, CHARLES - is it just me or do there seem to be an unusually high number of registered LGFer's who have been around for a while (certainly a long way from newbies) who have made very few comments during their registered time here, who are coming "out of the woodwork" to defend Spencer or at least caution you or us to not judge Spence on this; or that maybe someone else joined under his name and photograph and it's not really Robert Spencer of JihadWatch?
Or is it just a perception that I've formed?

You are correct.

411 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:42:20pm

It's kind of amazing to me that the people making excuses for this are willing to completely ignore the VICIOUS nature of Spencer's posts about me, the fact that he links to several openly fascist bloggers (e.g. Brussels Journal, who recently came out and endorsed the neo-Nazi British National Party), and even posts comments at sites that are run by deranged stalkers who have stolen my copyrighted work and registered multiple sock puppets to post obnoxiously hateful comments at LGF.

I'm sorry. My supply of 'benefit of the doubt' is all gone.

412 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:42:24pm

re: #390 Killgore Trout

They play a little loose with the accents on the show. The red head who died tonight claimed that she was raised in England after leaving the island as a child but she had an Australian accent. I guess American audiences aren't so picky. Sayid is supposed to be an Iraqi but his accent is British/Pakistani/Indian (in descending order)

Rebecca Mader - born Cambridge England (Charlotte Lewis)
Naveen Andrews - born London England (Sayid)

413 William_Ryan  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:43:12pm

re: #369 jcm

Look, I'm not saying it was an accident. i have no idea. I don't think anyone other than Spencer does. We can guess what his motivation was one way or the other - those who like Spencer will give him the benefit of the doubt, those that don't will assume he's guilty.

If he is still a member by this time tomorrow I'll see things differently - same if his explanation is anything other than "I didn't realize what it was - I just hit Approve b/c I get so many of these requests..- but for now, i just think a lot of this sounds more like the DU crowd attacking some 'evil neocon' then it does LGF.

414 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:43:18pm

re: #411 Charles

It's kind of amazing to me that the people making excuses for this are willing to completely ignore the VICIOUS nature of Spencer's posts about me, the fact that he links to several openly fascist bloggers (e.g. Brussels Journal, who recently came out and endorsed the neo-Nazi British National Party), and even posts comments at sites that are run by deranged stalkers who have stolen my copyrighted work and registered multiple sock puppets to post obnoxiously hateful comments at LGF.

I'm sorry. My supply of 'benefit of the doubt' is all gone.

Mine too.

415 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:43:48pm

re: #405 jcm

Makes no mention of, oh, you know, murdering everyone.

416 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:43:58pm

re: #400 Cato the Elder

I had Spencer on my "friends" list. I continued to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Mistakes were made.

I don't know what that means? Do you mean he was on some list of yours, and you were able to cross referenced the groups he was a member of?

417 dapperdave  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:44:07pm

re: #399 Killgore Trout

Fascists sleeping with fascists...inbreeding at its worst.

418 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:44:11pm

re: #389 No Dhummi

Thank you for the civil response. One of the few tonight.

I can't, because there is so much apparent contradiction in his behaviour. See my first post. This makes no sense. No rational person would act in such a fashion. Even Hitler was rational. The complete contradiction in his apparent behaviour gives me pause and makes it impossible for me to decide one way or the other. There's nagging doubt and it is horrific to make the mistake of falsely accusing someone of desiring genocide, so I must be careful and not assume.

Hitler was rational?! Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot?! How can you call a man who who ordered the murder of millions, who started wars he couldn't win, and when he failed ordered as much destruction as possible in order to ruin what he could not control, rational.

419 notutopia  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:44:16pm

OMG. This is horrific and sickening. Just disgusting.
The whole lot of them have gone dark and insanely blind with hate.

Mandy, if you're still here, please check your email.

420 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:44:21pm

re: #413 William_Ryan

Did you read the link in #8? I'm fairly confident his motivation is he agrees with these people.

421 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:44:36pm

re: #408 No Dhummi

By knowing how facebook works, one knows that his joining the groups wasn't accidental; without regard for how he would respond to such an accusation.

By his article ("The Nakba, May 29, 1453"), not just an advertisement (nice red herring there), about the very topic that forms the basis of this group.

Nice try Johnny Cochran.

422 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:44:41pm

re: #394 ggt

Me too. And you too.

Good freakin' night all. For the third time.

I can't believe I called an LGF poster (Lizard? questionable) a name here. First time ever. I'll try to calm down before I comment next time. I'm mortified that I let slip the mask. (I swear like Mandy in RL, if her toe were in a vice...but I don't call folks names....not even in the anonymity of the innertubes....not my style.) Hey, my Dad might read this site.

Quite an accomplishment, whassisname up there, to get me so riled...you gotta be pretty dense to get me that irritated.

423 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:45:08pm

re: #389 No Dhummi

Disgusting.

424 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:45:41pm

Spencer has handed CAIR and MPACUK a great victory. They are sure to use this in the future to discredit the counter-jihad movement.
I'm also very glad that Charles decided to post this. LGF shouldn't be responsible for hiding the dirty laundry of racists posing as free speech/anti-Islamization spokespeople.

425 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:46:05pm

re: #415 No Dhummi

Right- the Turks will just happily leave.

426 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:46:33pm

re: #415 No Dhummi

Makes no mention of, oh, you know, murdering everyone.

No, not yet, but the 500 years is enough logo is right there. It brings up "the right of return" it's a step in the direction we see now.

It's part of a pattern.

427 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:47:08pm

I'm quite sure that this is just the first wave of Spencer apologists, and some of them are going to be rabid.

428 dapperdave  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:47:23pm

re: #411 Charles

I don't blame ya, totally understandable.

429 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:47:33pm

re: #412 Walter L. Newton

Sayid I could have guessed but I'm very surprised Rebecca Mader is English. She really sounds Australian to me.

430 zionismrules  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:48:18pm

re: #153 Charles

You're right. I did miss that. I would say Spencer has some explaining to do, more about that link on his own website than about joining this facebook group though.

You wrote:
"There is absolutely NO WAY IN HELL I would ever join a group on Facebook without knowing exactly what they stood for. No responsible person does that."

I know most reasonable people probably feel the same way. But it's incredibly easy to join facebook groups and most people simply don't read them too carefully. See, for example, the link in my last post about the anti-cancer group whose description included vile anti-semitism and nutjob conspiracy theories -- over a million people joined that, most of whom I think would have been appalled had they known what the group's description actually said. Moreover, while group names can't be changed, the group's description can be. Most people, when they join groups that their friends invited them to, probably don't even look at the group again for a very long time, if at all, and don't know whether the description has changed since they joined. My point in my last comment was simply that there are just too many plausible possibilities here to jump to conclusions on the basis of the group membership alone. However, I admit once again, I was unaware of that link on his website. I would like to hear what his explanation is for both things now.

431 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:48:22pm

re: #427 Charles

Get your HAZMAT suits inspected and ready for action.

432 miguelj  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:48:33pm

So we're accusing each other of being sleepers and sock puppets now?
What would be the point? Nobody here is defending the Reconquista site. At best, some of us think (hope) that Spencer is the victim of a prank or maybe playing one himself. We're all agreed that this Reconquista group is reprehensible. So: sock puppets to what end?

433 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:49:33pm

re: #405 jcm

Just saw this. This leaves no room for doubt: Spencer has gone totalitarian.

I feel like Obi-Wan Kenobi: "You were the Chosen One! You were supposed to help save Europe not lead back into Genocide!" [ignites lightsaber]

434 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:49:43pm

re: #411 Charles

It's kind of amazing to me that the people making excuses for this are willing to completely ignore the VICIOUS nature of Spencer's posts about me, the fact that he links to several openly fascist bloggers (e.g. Brussels Journal, who recently came out and endorsed the neo-Nazi British National Party), and even posts comments at sites that are run by deranged stalkers who have stolen my copyrighted work and registered multiple sock puppets to post obnoxiously hateful comments at LGF.

I'm sorry. My supply of 'benefit of the doubt' is all gone.

I admit I have not seen what he has written about you (it was unfair of you to assume I've just ignored it. I've been in exams at university) but writing nasty things about a person is not equivalent to advocating genocide, nor can one be taken as evidence or an indicator of the other.

re: #272 realwest

Um, CHARLES - is it just me or do there seem to be an unusually high number of registered LGFer's who have been around for a while (certainly a long way from newbies) who have made very few comments during their registered time here, who are coming "out of the woodwork" to defend Spencer or at least caution you or us to not judge Spence on this; or that maybe someone else joined under his name and photograph and it's not really Robert Spencer of JihadWatch?
Or is it just a perception that I've formed?

Lol, was that about me? Exactly what kind of accusation are you leveling at me now? Am I Spencer in your view? Or maybe a neo-nazi fascist? Or maybe I'm just someone who doesn't generally have the time to post, but makes the time when I see one of my favourite sites start to report the same way the MSM does?

435 Aye Pod  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:50:04pm

re: #407 realwest

Thats a pretty damn thin veneer they got goint there.

Yes - it sure is, but that's the veneer they're using.

436 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:50:41pm

re: #430 zionismrules

Please read JCM's number 305 and then tell me if you still feel that way.

437 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:51:45pm

re: #430 zionismrules

So... robert is careless. A man with a reputation that has recently come under fire because of his involvement and apologia for fascists didn't bother to look into a group he recklessly joined on facebook. That makes no sense. He knows better- he's quite cautious enough about his other dealings.

438 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:51:48pm

re: #434 No Dhummi

Lol, was that about me? Exactly what kind of accusation are you leveling at me now? Am I Spencer in your view? Or maybe a neo-nazi fascist? Or maybe I'm just someone who doesn't generally have the time to post, but makes the time when I see one of my favourite sites start to report the same way the MSM does?

That's insulting. Everything in this post is a fact, and anyone with a Facebook account can see that for themselves.

439 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:52:14pm

It's also a fact that some some of the defenders of Spencer's here are linked to Reconquista blogs themselves.

440 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:52:35pm

re: #418 Dark_Falcon

Hitler was rational?! Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot?! How can you call a man who who ordered the murder of millions, who started wars he couldn't win, and when he failed ordered as much destruction as possible in order to ruin what he could not control, rational.

Yes. Rationality. Able to think clearly. Able to take arguments to their logical conclusion. The Holocaust was, as they say, the devil's arithmetic. Precise, and devastatingly logical and efficient. I didn't say he was reasonable. I said rational. He wasn't insane. He doesn't have that excuse.

441 William_Ryan  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:53:03pm

re: #411 Charles
Fair enough. I've tried to avoid the whole thing b/c I'm a fan of both of you guys so I haven't seen the vicious stuff he's said. I quit reading a few sites when I've seen them post nasty stuff about you. I'm just having a hard time undrestanding what spencer would have from joining such a group Publicly. I've joined a communist group before by accident and most of the people I know on FB have joined odious groups accidentally too - we all have to learn about safely dealing with Facebook at some point b/c it's easy to drop your guard at first.

442 Alberta Oil Peon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:53:26pm

re: #117 Iron Fist

It bugs me that I bought it, read it, and liked it. It's like finding out a favorite artist has been shooting kid porn on the side.


I bought it, read it, and liked it, too. The book stands as a testament to what Robert Spencer was before he crossed over to the dark side, IMHO.

I'm thinking that one of two possible scenarios is in effect here.

1. This all a huge disinformation campaign, intended to draw somebody or something out; maybe even just a bad attempt at satire. Or...

2. Robert Spencer has well and truly lost it, being so close to the islamist problem and studying it so intently, he's lost his sense of balance. For a fictional example of what I mean, look to the downfall of Denethor, the Steward of Gondor, in Lord of the Rings.

443 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:53:30pm

re: #438 Charles

I used my cousin's facebook account to look. There's no mistaking that list of friends.

444 HelloDare  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:53:44pm

re: #219 No Dhummi

and Wilders is allegedly linked to some radical right group.

Got a link for that statement. It's news to me. Let's not drag Wilders into this craziness.

445 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:53:52pm

re: #438 Charles

That's insulting. Everything in this post is a fact, and anyone with a Facebook account can see that for themselves.

I am sorry you are insulted, but you didn't present the other side - what the other person has to say for themselves. That's balanced reporting, which the MSM is not doing.

446 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:54:12pm

re: #334 Sharmuta
HEY Sharm! Look at my #272! Killgore can be the good cop and you can be the cop with a clue-by four, but I want to be the cop with the two-by-four!

447 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:54:16pm

re: #439 Thanos

It's also a fact that some some of the defenders of Spencer's here are linked to Reconquista blogs themselves.

Which ones?

448 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:54:23pm

At the bottom of the page there's a "links" section.....
The Aryan Nations

Greek art / white pride

This is not a group you join by accident.

449 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:54:41pm

re: #439 Thanos

It's also a fact that some some of the defenders of Spencer's here are linked to Reconquista blogs themselves.

Exactly. Reload the page and you'll see this in comment #94.

450 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:54:42pm

re: #441 William_Ryan

Not one, but two. Two vile groups in one day? When he's been hanging with and apologizing for fascists for months? That's too much to swallow.

451 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:55:38pm

re: #439 Thanos

OH... WHO!

452 HelloDare  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:55:48pm

The Weather Underground only had plans for killing 25 million Americans.

453 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:56:35pm

re: #338 dapperdave
Oh yes, there's been a trend ok.

454 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:56:36pm

re: #440 No Dhummi

I would call the Holocaust the height of irrationality. Hitler was not insane, that is true, but his actions were not those of a rational man. What is your argument that he was?

455 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:56:58pm

re: #446 realwest

Did robert smear you on his front page?

456 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:57:04pm

re: #440 No Dhummi

The MASK is off folks!

457 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:57:25pm

re: #445 No Dhummi

I don't interview Medea Benjamin when I do an article on Code Pink, you typically don't have to with nutballs because you know exactly where they stand, as we do with Spencer from months of experience.

458 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:57:33pm

re: #444 HelloDare

Got a link for that statement. It's news to me. Let's not drag Wilders into this craziness

Lol, that's my point. I believe that other blog posts on this site will explain the possible Wilders connection if you're interested. Look back through a few pages.

In any case, it's not my intention to add fuel to the fire by bringing in other alleged ties and possible connections, guilt by association, three times removed on the father's side.

459 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:58:04pm

re: #442 Alberta Oil Peon

OT - did you get my package?

460 William_Ryan  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:58:05pm

re: #420 Sharmuta

I did. And yep, that's pretty hard to ignore. And if by tomorrow he doesn't quit the group b/c it was an oversight on his part, I'll make a point of eating my 'naivete' defense words.

Look, I'm not saying it doesn't look bad and I'm not even faulting anyone who beleives its not a mistake. Its just very easy for me to imagine someone sending him a group invite and him just blindly accepting it.

461 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:58:06pm

re: #390 Killgore Trout

They play a little loose with the accents on the show. The red head who died tonight claimed that she was raised in England after leaving the island as a child but she had an Australian accent. I guess American audiences aren't so picky. Sayid is supposed to be an Iraqi but his accent is British/Pakistani/Indian (in descending order)

Naveen Andrews, the actor, is English and Indian. Also beautiful almost beyond belief. When he was in "Bride and Prejudice" with Aishwarya Rai I nearly died of too much beauty on one screen.

But no one ever gets Arab accents right on TV. I watched some cop show a couple of months ago where they had a 'Saudi' character who was played by, I swear, some Jewish guy with a Russian accent.

462 HelloDare  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:58:11pm

re: #449 Charles

Exactly. Reload the page and you'll see this in comment #94.

Somebody go back there and ding him down. He's still got one Karma Point left.

463 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:59:20pm

re: #462 HelloDare

That ought to do it.

464 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 10:59:40pm

re: #460 William_Ryan

And what about his on going history for years with other ethnic nationalist groups?! I asked you about the link in #8- have you even read it yet?

465 HelloDare  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:00:51pm

re: #463 Dan G.

That ought to do it.

Yup. Minus two now.

466 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:00:52pm

Another Facebook group joined by Spencer today advocates making Islam illegal, mass deportations, and using military force against illegal immigrants, among other lovely things.

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

467 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:01:28pm

I also put the link concerning robert and his fascist friends in the spinoffs.

468 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:01:45pm

re: #440 No Dhummi

Yes. Rationality. Able to think clearly. Able to take arguments to their logical conclusion. The Holocaust was, as they say, the devil's arithmetic. Precise, and devastatingly logical and efficient. I didn't say he was reasonable. I said rational. He wasn't insane. He doesn't have that excuse.

Well, I take back the "you moron" comment. I had to come back to say that. You are absolutely 100% correct there. He was not insane. He was evil.

I have not, however, let you off the hook. You have ignored fact after fact, while accusing Charles of doing so. This didn't, as I said, happen in a vacuum. Folks have been following the evolution of Spencer's ideas, as he is quite a prolific writer, blogger, and speaker, for quite a while now. There is more to this than you demonstrated you had knowledge of when you walked in the room accusing LGFers and Charles of going by ONLY the information that YOU read at the top of the post. And when given the opportunity to peruse other facts by many here, you ignored them.

Still, spot on regarding Hiter and the "devil's mathematics."
Goodnight all. #4.

469 Aye Pod  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:01:46pm

re: #448 Killgore Trout

And the 'recent news section' is just a list of links to all the ethnic nationalist parties in europe with a recommendation to vote for them. Large swastikas aside, it's hard to see how a web page could scream 'fascism' any louder.

470 HelloDare  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:01:47pm

re: #458 No Dhummi

Lol, that's my point. I believe that other blog posts on this site will explain the possible Wilders connection if you're interested. Look back through a few pages.

In any case, it's not my intention to add fuel to the fire by bringing in other alleged ties and possible connections, guilt by association, three times removed on the father's side.

In other words, you don't have a link.

471 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:02:07pm

re: #466 Charles

This is beyond going off the rails- he's gone over the cliff.

472 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:02:23pm

re: #466 Charles

Another Facebook group joined by Spencer today advocates making Islam illegal, mass deportations, and using military force against illegal immigrants, among other lovely things.

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

The shark, well and truly jumped.

473 HelloDare  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:03:34pm

re: #471 Sharmuta

This is beyond going off the rails- he's gone over the cliff.

If it were just him going over the cliff, I wouldn't mind. How many others is he taking with him?

474 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:03:44pm

re: #383 Taqiyyotomist
Yup. Absolutely right. Amazing how long some sleeper's can hide, isn't it? And I counted 9 not 10 but I certainly coulda missed one!

475 miguelj  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:03:46pm

Charles: who besides comment 94? Everybody else (me, too) just seems to be hoping it's not true. If it is true, I'll be the first guy to admit I was wrong & will denounce Spencer and the Reconquistas for a bunch of rotten swine. I still have 100% admiration for you and your site. It's just a lttle unsettling to hear fellow-posters called sleepers and sock puppets....

476 schnapp  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:04:11pm

it still could be a fake spencer account. search "miley cyrus" for example and see how many people spend their time pretending to be her.

but it probably is the real spencer because no one in their right mind would want to pretend to be him.

477 MrPaulRevere  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:04:14pm

This is a stunner. I knew the man was a fascist sympathizer with a mean streak, but this is shocking.

478 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:04:22pm

re: #473 HelloDare

That's why I thought it was important for Charles to finally post on this so others might think twice.

479 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:04:51pm

re: #454 Dark_Falcon

I would call the Holocaust the height of irrationality. Hitler was not insane, that is true, but his actions were not those of a rational man. What is your argument that he was?

If he were irrational, he'd be insane. Seemingly you agree. Based on the what he posited as true (i.e. all the anti-Semitic stuff), his formed a logical conclusion, completely free from all "tainting" elements, like compassion or ethics. People like to think of Hitler as a monster - something inhuman and unlike us or anyone we know - because it is more frightening to realise that he was a regular person - a man who was kind to his employees and cried when his maid died and was a passionate vegetarian - who just so happened to massacre 6 million people.

re: #457 Thanos

I don't interview Medea Benjamin when I do an article on Code Pink, you typically don't have to with nutballs because you know exactly where they stand, as we do with Spencer from months of experience.

If you accuse someone of plotting genocide on the basis of facebook group memberships, you should give em a chance to respond.

480 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:05:08pm

re: #466 Charles

Another Facebook group joined by Spencer today advocates making Islam illegal, mass deportations, and using military force against illegal immigrants, among other lovely things.

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

Sounds like the kind of thing Pat Buchanan would write. Vile, simply vile.

481 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:05:23pm

re: #475 miguelj

Charles: who besides comment 94? Everybody else (me, too) just seems to be hoping it's not true. If it is true, I'll be the first guy to admit I was wrong & will denounce Spencer and the Reconquistas for a bunch of rotten swine. I still have 100% admiration for you and your site. It's just a lttle unsettling to hear fellow-posters called sleepers and sock puppets....

Here's why:
Emerson Twain
This user is blocked.
Registered since: Nov 26, 2007 at 9:49 am
No. of comments posted: 18
No. of links posted: 9

18 comments in a year and half.

482 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:05:54pm

re: #475 miguelj

Miguel, I used to defend Spencer as well, I learned the hard way not to.

483 wiffersnapper  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:06:31pm

I use facebook for good, not retarded

484 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:06:39pm

re: #479 No Dhummi

If you accuse someone of plotting genocide on the basis of facebook group memberships, you should give em a chance to respond.

Not a single person has accused Robert Spencer of "plotting genocide," and you know it.

485 Flavia  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:06:40pm

re: #105 Cato the Elder

I live on the East Coast, if you need a place to hide - I don't
know just how worried you think you have to be....

486 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:06:47pm

re: #479 No Dhummi

You don't know the history. robert was hooking up with fascists before, and his response was to attack Charles and those of us at LGF who saw him for WHAT HE WAS!

MONTHS this has been going on, so unless you want to take the time to learn about WTF it is your commenting about- STFU!

487 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:06:49pm

re: #454 Dark_Falcon

I would call the Holocaust the height of irrationality. Hitler was not insane, that is true, but his actions were not those of a rational man. What is your argument that he was?

In (amazingly enough) his defense, I will say that he did make quite clear the distinction between rational and reasonable. I really really don't think NoDhummi is giving props to Adolph here. There is a huge distinction there. Not a nuanced one. A huge one, which he made abundantly clear.

0205, I'm braindead. See y'all tomorrow.

488 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:06:50pm

re: #479 No Dhummi

If you accuse someone of plotting genocide on the basis of facebook group memberships, you should give em a chance to respond equivocate.

Fixed that for you, your strawman notwithstanding (no one has accused him of plotting...).

489 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:07:06pm

re: #466 Charles

Another Facebook group joined by Spencer today advocates making Islam illegal, mass deportations, and using military force against illegal immigrants, among other lovely things.

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

Anyone else that you recognize on the membership page?

490 William_Ryan  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:07:38pm

re: #450 Sharmuta

Again it depends on your perspective. Joining 2 in one day would also support the notion that he just did a mass "Join Group" for each invite he got.

Look, obviously you would never blindly join a group, I have and so have a lot of people. Because of that, I want to wait until tomorrow before I assume the guy is guilty. If he claims he was careless and just hit Join Group - I'll give him the benefit of the doubt - if he doesn't, then I won't.

I'm just having Dejavu or an interaction I had at DU back during the Scooter libby incident. Just b/c you're accused of a crime that's something you might actually do doesn't make you guilty of it.

491 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:07:42pm

re: #470 HelloDare

In other words, you don't have a link.

I can get a link if you want... but proving that he is connected is not my point at all.. Read my post again.

492 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:07:45pm

re: #412 Walter L. Newton
Hey Walter - did he ever reply to your e-mail from tonight?

493 HelloDare  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:08:22pm

re: #478 Sharmuta

That's why I thought it was important for Charles to finally post on this so others might think twice.

Yeah, I got that. Sorry. I hate it when people do that to my posts. I'd do one of those sideways winky thingies but I hate them. Please accept my upding.

494 NY Nana  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:08:25pm

G'nite, all! I am really, really going to go to sleep now, as we have a storm possibly coming in..some thunderstorms, followed by high winds all over this part of the East Coast in the AM through Friday AM...I hope it is just another goofy forecast from the weather men.

We are supposed to go to Brooklyn to take care of the 2 year old toddler. He easily outruns 2 grandparents! Daughter and son in law want to go out to dinner, as it is the 6th anniversary of their first date!

If I don't post later, it will be because we lost our power..there is a danger of trees coming down, and power lines along with them. Oy!

That storm had better calm down is all I have to say! I need my dose of the 2 year old comedian! It is very therapeutic.

Sweet dreams!

A message to Robert Spencer: Get stuffed, you schmuck.

495 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:08:28pm

re: #492 realwest

Hey Walter - did he ever reply to your e-mail from tonight?

No

496 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:08:49pm

re: #490 William_Ryan

What is your take on his article pertaining to Constantinople (i.e. the "true" nakba)?

497 Taqiyyotomist  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:09:10pm

DAMN.

"If you accuse someone of plotting genocide on the basis of facebook group memberships, you should give em a chance to respond."

You still are saying this same exact thing.

ITS BASED ON MORE THAN FACEBOOK MEMBERSHIPS, NO DHUMMI.
.
ITS BASED ON MORE THAN FACEBOOK MEMBERSHIPS, NO DHUMMI.
.
ITS BASED ON MORE THAN FACEBOOK MEMBERSHIPS, NO DHUMMI.
.
ITS BASED ON MORE THAN FACEBOOK MEMBERSHIPS, NO DHUMMI.

Read at least one of those last 4 sentences, please? Just one?

498 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:09:12pm

re: #461 SanFranciscoZionist


I watched some cop show a couple of months ago where they had a 'Saudi' character who was played by, I swear, some Jewish guy with a Russian accent.


Lol
Here's some naveen adrews for you...
Bride and Prejudice

499 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:09:33pm

re: #484 Charles

Not a single person has accused Robert Spencer of "plotting genocide," and you know it.

The facebook group is plotting genocide. You are asserting that Spencer joined this group, thus is also plotting genocide too.

500 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:10:08pm

re: #479 No Dhummi

It's not just from the facebook group however, a fact which has been pointed out to you several times, but which you keep ignoring.

It's from posts on his own blog, his associations and support for hardline Serbian groups, his free support, association, and endorsements of known hate groups such as Vlaams Belang and others in the new Eurofascist right. His attacks on other bloggers who disagree with that support and those associations. The comment stream at his site. There's more.

501 William_Ryan  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:10:38pm

re: #464 Sharmuta

Yes I read it and yes, I believe I responded to you already. It definitely looks bad and would be consistent with many such items. Again though, how else can I say it - that doesn't mean the guy didn't just hit Join Group without reading what it was all about - just like a few thousand of people do on Facebook every day

502 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:10:45pm

re: #482 Thanos

Miguel, I used to defend Spencer as well, I learned the hard way not to.

When Cato the Elder first posted, I didn't think Spencer would go that far.
But, it became pretty clear.

503 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:11:02pm

re: #479 No Dhummi

If you accuse someone of plotting genocide on the basis of facebook group memberships, you should give em a chance to respond.

Irrational and insane are not the same thing. I often see customers at work who are acting irrationally, yet they are in no way being insane, as they still know right from wrong.

504 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:11:20pm

re: #434 No Dhummi
Now why would you think that was about you?

505 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:11:22pm

Dummy, Have you run out of fish? Having trouble propping up the strawmen with all of this wind?

506 Tigger2005  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:11:26pm

re: #389 No Dhummi

Even Hitler was rational.

Uh ... WHAT?

Invading Russia, declaring war on the U.S., slaughtering millions of Jews and undesirables, and sacrificing your country on the altar of pride are acts of a rational person?

507 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:11:30pm

re: #416 Walter L. Newton

I don't know what that means? Do you mean he was on some list of yours, and you were able to cross referenced the groups he was a member of?

Not quite.

Spencer is/was on my "friends" list. When a friend does something like join a new group, or post a link, or whatever, you get a notice telling you that on your Facebook home page.

Spencer may have gotten a similar notice about one of his friends joining the same group. That may be how he found out about it.

What I find incredible is the notion that a man in Spencer's high-profile situation would join a group whose name sounds congenial (let's say that was his first reaction) without actually reading what they advocate. And even if he did, that indicates a serious lack of judgment that is newsworthy in itself.

And he joined not one, but two groups yesterday, the second of which, though far less disgusting than the "Anatolia" outfit, also espouses clearly un-Constitutional goals. See my original post here.

508 miguelj  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:11:34pm

An example: I joined a Facebook group by mistake. I have an interest in The Jacobite Uprising of 1745: Culloden, The Bonnie Prince, Skye Boat Song, all that. Joined a "Jacobite" group and within 30 seconds of reading their philosophy saw that it was an anti-democratic movement, dead serious about the Divine Right of Kings (hard to believe in this day & age). I dropped out of instantly & posted apologies on my "wall" for having joined it.

I agree, CHarles, the case against Spencer looks bad. But I still want to know what he says about why he's done this.

509 BignJames  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:11:46pm

re: #499 No Dhummi

The facebook group is plotting genocide. You are asserting that Spencer joined this group, thus is also plotting genocide too.

Not plotting genocide. Advocating genocde....and yes.

510 NoelArmourson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:11:48pm

re: #499 No Dhummi

He has apparently chosen to associate with genocide advocates.

511 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:11:54pm

re: #490 William_Ryan

He joined multiple fringe groups, he's been hanging with ethnic nationalists for quite some time now, he's attacked Charles and LGFers for noticing it (NOT posting articles on it, mind you- just for noticing his associates).

My benefit of the doubt is expired. He's too intelligent and cautious about other things, so recklessness on his part isn't a theory I can but into.

512 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:12:08pm

re: #492 realwest

Hey Walter - did he ever reply to your e-mail from tonight?

His European sycophants will arrive first.
They're just getting out of bed.

513 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:12:18pm

re: #497 Taqiyyotomist

DAMN.

"If you accuse someone of plotting genocide on the basis of facebook group memberships, you should give em a chance to respond."

You still are saying this same exact thing.

ITS BASED ON MORE THAN FACEBOOK MEMBERSHIPS, NO DHUMMI.
.
ITS BASED ON MORE THAN FACEBOOK MEMBERSHIPS, NO DHUMMI.
.
ITS BASED ON MORE THAN FACEBOOK MEMBERSHIPS, NO DHUMMI.
.
ITS BASED ON MORE THAN FACEBOOK MEMBERSHIPS, NO DHUMMI.

Read at least one of those last 4 sentences, please? Just one?

All the rest are, as you guys put it, "circumstantial evidence". There are reasons to doubt that Spencer actually did join the group or did so knowingly (i.e. the alleged behaviour is completely irrational and contradictory to past known behaviour, the group's motto is a 4chan meme.) All I'm asking is that people wait until he responds before forming a judgment. Is that irrational?

514 Charles Johnson  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:13:21pm

re: #489 Irish Rose

Anyone else that you recognize on the membership page?

Yes, at least one banned LGF poster, a rabid Serbian fascist.

515 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:13:30pm

re: #503 Dark_Falcon

Irrational and insane are not the same thing. I often see customers at work who are acting irrationally, yet they are in no way being insane, as they still know right from wrong.

Systematic and continued irrationality is insanity.

516 MrPaulRevere  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:13:43pm

This is unbelievable. It looks as though Robert was practicing his own version of taqqiya.

517 zombie  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:13:49pm

For the life of me I can't figure out how Facebook works. I even have an "account" there, but try as I might, I never seem to be able to access any "content" -- or whatever the hell they have on that site. So, the links do nothing for me. (Scratches head.)

-------------------

Anyway, totally aside from Robert Spencer and this weird Greek racist group, the whole issue of Turks in Anatolia brings up many fundamental historic questions that have yet to be resolved on a global scale. It's still an issue in the Middle East (Israel/Palestine), North America (the Reconquista, Native American "nations," etc.) Africa (South Africa and Rhodesia/Zimbabwe), Europe (Basque separaists, the IRA), etc. etc.

The question is: Do newly arrived colonists/conquerors have the "right" to stay on the land they colonized? There is no easy answer. It apparently has to do with how much time has passed since the colonization.

For example, everyone nowadays assumes that "Turkey" is and always has been Turkish. But, actually, the Turks were a migratory tribe who did not even arrive in "Asia Minor" until the 11th century AD, and did not fully conquer it (as the racist group points out) until 1453. The world at large says to the Turks -- OK, 600-700 years -- that's enough to establish a claim.

And yet, on the other hand, Europeans arrived in the New World just a couple decades later (1492), and still to this day they are treated (by leftist groups) as villainous interlopers who committed genocide on the native population. And that the US and other New World nations are fundamentally illegitimate.

However, how is the European conquest of the Americas any different from the Turkish conquest of Anatolia? Not really different at all, really. The Turks also committed genocide/ethnic cleansing on the pre-existing population.

The same is true of just about every nation in existence. The Saxons drove out the Celts, the Aryans drove out the Dravidians, the Arabs massacred the Copts and the Assyrians, the Boers drove out the Zulus, and yes even the Hebrews drove out the Canaanites.

And those are just the ones we know about. How far back do you want to go? The Cro-Magnons wiped out the Neanderthals, 35,000 years ago.

And in many instances the land has switched back and forth many times -- most famolusly the Holy Land, which was Canaanite, then Hebrew, then Roman, then Arab, then Christian, then Muslim, then Christian again, then Ottoman, then British, then Hebrew again. (I suppose the Canaanites have priority, but there aren't any of them left.)

if every prior group always had a claim on every bit of "stolen land" around the globe (i.e. basically all inhabited land), then then conflicts and the justifications for conflicts will never ever end. Ever.

I have no magic answers. Just thinking out loud. Even if we did pass some hoity-toity international pronouncement -- e.g. "All existing nations have a right to exist, and all prior claims to the territory are null and void" -- the resentments will still run deep, and the Serbs will never give up their claim on Kosovo, the Greeks on Anatolia, the Arabs on the Holy Land, the Hispanics on the American southwest, etc. etc. The pronouncement could never be enforced, without some supreme global "peacekeeping force" suppressing all dissent.

I wish, yes I wish, that the ethno-nationalists around the globe would just "let it go," and get on with building a new life with what we have right now. But, sadly, I'm quite sure my wish will never come true.

518 NY Nana  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:13:49pm

re: #448 Killgore Trout

/Please stop trying to confuse certain posters with logic...their heads will explode.

519 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:13:51pm

re: #487 Taqiyyotomist

In (amazingly enough) his defense, I will say that he did make quite clear the distinction between rational and reasonable. I really really don't think NoDhummi is giving props to Adolph here. There is a huge distinction there. Not a nuanced one. A huge one, which he made abundantly clear.

0205, I'm braindead. See y'all tomorrow.

I never thought No Dhummi was praising Hitler. I was questioning his argument. I was drawing a distinction between irrational and insane.

520 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:13:57pm

re: #513 No Dhummi

Writing an article is not circumstantial, it is material evidence.

521 gulfloafer  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:14:11pm

re: #398 NoelArmourson
I'm with you. I'm not denying what's in front of me and I'm not apologizing for the guy. Putting emotions aside, is the guy truly that stupid? That's my question. I'm not a troll here just to stir the pot.

522 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:14:13pm

re: #513 No Dhummi

His own blog posts are "circumstantial"?

523 William_Ryan  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:14:20pm

re: #496 Dan G.

My take on it is that it's nutty and disturbing. That's why I'm not faulting anyone who doesn't want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

524 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:14:20pm

re: #455 Sharmuta
Don't know Sharm - I don't go over to JihadWatch at all.

525 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:14:28pm

re: #466 Charles

I see Charles TheHammer has also recently joined. I seem to recall that he's a previously banned lizard.

526 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:15:01pm

re: #514 Charles

Yes, at least one banned LGF poster, a rabid Serbian fascist.

The Black Hand of twitter?

527 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:15:43pm

re: #518 NY Nana

;)

528 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:15:55pm

re: #525 Killgore Trout

I see Charles TheHammer has also recently joined. I seem to recall that he's a previously banned lizard.

Yeah, I saw that as well.

529 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:16:34pm

re: #523 William_Ryan

Nutty and disturbing is a bit of an understatement considering what's at stake here (i.e. the credibility of ANYONE who speaks out against jihadi's; they will be maligned and associated with this asshole).

530 Tigger2005  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:16:35pm

I am so pissed at Spencer. I used to recommend his site to people wanting to learn more about Islam. Not a chance in hell I would do that anymore.

Now when they have those "Jihad Awareness Weeks" on college campuses, if Spencer shows up, the Left and the jihadists will have plenty of ammo with which to smear the entire anti-Jihad movement as a bunch of racists and Nazis.

Spencer, you are such a f*cking dumbass. I wish you'd just shut up and go away.

531 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:17:28pm

Time for me to get some sleeps, way late here, but I fully expect this thread to get salted by the skinheads and eurofascists shortly. It's dawning over there.

532 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:18:12pm

It's also disturbing because of robert's involvement at Front Page.

David Horowitz shouldn't be getting smeared with a guilt by association tactic, but I'm afraid he will.

533 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:18:21pm

re: #520 Dan G.

Writing an article is not circumstantial, it is material evidence.

Where did he write an article advocating genocide?

534 Tigger2005  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:18:29pm

re: #513 No Dhummi

i.e. the alleged behaviour is completely irrational and contradictory to past known behaviour

No, it's not. People have been pointing this out to you over and over and over again. It's NOT contradictory to his past known behavior.

You're in deep denial.

535 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:18:58pm

re: #532 Sharmuta

The smears won't stain if he stands up now and swiftly kicks Robert to the curb.

536 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:19:25pm

re: #533 No Dhummi

Strawman. Try again.

537 SFGoth  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:19:49pm

re: #506 Tigger2005

Uh ... WHAT?

Invading Russia, declaring war on the U.S., slaughtering millions of Jews and undesirables, and sacrificing your country on the altar of pride are acts of a rational person?

I think the problem is that we are not defining the terms. As much as I fantasize about taking the 1st A.D. back to the Steppes in 1941 and letting it loose (I do), Hitler was quite rational for a long time. He played Western European diplomacy for the fool from 1934- 1939. He then made a major gamble on France and won. He called off Sea Lion realizing it couldn't work. He also had a pretty good chance of taking Moscow but underestimated the logistics of Operation Barbarossa. Furthermore, he well knew that Stalin was going to invade *Germany* by 1943 latest (most likely early '42) and knew that his time to act was short because the U.S. was gearing for war. Even his declaration of war on us was intended to goad Japan into invading Siberia. Was he a genocidal, xenophobic, hater of humanity? Yes. Was he a drooling baboon who heard voices and wore the latest Victoria's Secret (well...). No. He knew what he wanted and he spent a long time cultivating it. Calling him irrational I think rather trivializes what he did in some sense. It denies that humans *can* intentionally and knowingly be that evil. OTOH, Stalin was irrational -- look at his numerous purges. The Red Army almost collapsed in 1941 because it simply had no competent leadership. Hitler wasn't irrational, he was simply evil.

538 redc1c4  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:20:00pm

re: #3 freetoken

Just for the sake of argument.... Could Spencer claim that he is merely collecting information on the rise of anti-Islamism, for the purposes of understanding the blowback in western nations against the jihadists?

ah yes: the "kiddie pr0n" defence.

539 William_Ryan  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:20:02pm

re: #511 Sharmuta

Ok. Your position is understandable and I'm not criticizing it. It's not going to kill me to wait until tomorrow to see how he responds and if it's not an accident, I'll be glad to acknowledge you and everyone else who doesn't want to give him the benefit of the doubt, is right.

Note I haven't once said to you or anyone else "You have no right to feel that way" or "You're being ridiculous".

Do you use Facebook? If so, is it really that hard for you to believe someone hit Join Group without putting any thought into it? If so, ok - but I just know how easy it is to do, especially when you get bombarded with all those stupid drink requests and all the other garbage that gets sent out on FB by the gazillions.

540 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:20:13pm

re: #506 Tigger2005

Uh ... WHAT?

Invading Russia, declaring war on the U.S., slaughtering millions of Jews and undesirables, and sacrificing your country on the altar of pride are acts of a rational person?

re: #515 No Dhummi

Systematic and continued irrationality is insanity.

It can be, or it can be symptomatic of a warped worldview. Hitler had an irrational view of the world and it lead him to act irrationally: frequently and continuously. Yet he was not himself insane.

541 Render  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:20:53pm

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

Somehow I think we're on the right track...

NO
ACCOUNT,
R

542 MrPaulRevere  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:20:56pm

re: #532 Sharmuta

I have a world of respect for Mr. Horowitz. I would hate to lose it.

543 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:21:11pm

re: #534 Tigger2005

No he's not, he's in damage control mode. He knows Robert's position and agrees with it, that's why he's dishing the fallacies left-right-and-center. William_Ryan's acting is more in tune with denial.

544 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:21:56pm

re: #539 William_Ryan

Of course- tomorrow he could lie though his teeth saying it was an "accident", when reality shows that is involvement with euro-ethnic nationalists has grown instead of lessened. Will you believe him? How will you know he's being honest?

545 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:22:19pm

re: #541 Render

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

Somehow I think we're on the right track...

NO
ACCOUNT,
R

Fan of Nick Griffen and Enoch Powell, bet she can recite the 14 words in her sleep.

546 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:22:34pm

re: #534 Tigger2005

No, it's not. People have been pointing this out to you over and over and over again. It's NOT contradictory to his past known behavior.

You're in deep denial.

And I pointed out how it is to those who insist it's not. See how it can go either way? There is indicative evidence on both sides.re: #536 Dan G.

Strawman. Try again.

I don't see how what I said is a strawman. Unless there is evidence that he advocated genocide, then any supporting "evidence" that he is now advocating genocide is circumstantial.

And it's hardly a strawman to say that he's being accused of advocating genocide considering that's exactly what people are saying in this discussion. In fact, word for word.

547 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:22:34pm

re: #541 Render

Fan of Nick Griffin? UGH!

548 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:22:44pm

This is like watching a trainwreck in slow motion.
So utterly grotesque, that you can't take your eyes off of it.

I feel strangely compelled to pull an all-nighter.

549 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:22:55pm

re: #542 MrPaulRevere

I have a world of respect for Mr. Horowitz. I would hate to lose it.

I do too. I would hate for any blowback to hit him.

550 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:23:32pm

re: #548 Irish Rose

Join me, Rose.... and together we will whack-a-mole!

551 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:23:41pm

re: #544 Sharmuta

Of course- tomorrow he could lie though his teeth saying it was an "accident", when reality shows that is involvement with euro-ethnic nationalists has grown instead of lessened. Will you believe him? How will you know he's being honest?

re: #404 Dark_Falcon

The only way he can show himself to be innocent in my eyes is to honestly and thoroughly repudiate the group's positions. If Jihad Watch runs a post by Spencer that apologizes sincerely for his mistake and clearly condemns genocide and mass deportations, then I will give him the benefit of the doubt. But not until then.

552 Render  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:23:55pm

re: #545 Thanos

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

Not a doubt in my mind.

ZERO,
R

553 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:24:34pm

re: #546 No Dhummi

Are you dense? He supports the "liberation" of Constantinople.

554 William_Ryan  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:24:39pm

re: #529 Dan G.

I'm not disputing your point there. The left and jihadis weren't going to tell teh truth and be intellectually honest anyway -but that's not a reason to give them more ammo.

555 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:24:50pm

re: #548 Irish Rose

I hear you, but I must get some sleeps. I'll look more on the morrow. Honestly, I think he's made his alliance and just does not care anymore. He has to sell his books somewhere.

556 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:25:07pm

Only after disaster can we be resurrected. - Tyler Durden

557 realwest  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:26:01pm

Well y'all I'd like to stay and continue this, but I HAVE to go to sleep, my meds have kicked in (about 45 minutes ago) and I should have been in bed then.
But please know that my departure is in no way to be construed as running out on Charles - I support Charles whole-heartedly on this and as for Cato - my friend,I've said it before and meant it - I HAVE YOUR BACK. Come and live with me for a while if you sense you're in any sort of danger.
Good night,all and I hope I get the chance to see you all down the road.

558 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:26:08pm

re: #551 Dark_Falcon

And he could still be lying.

559 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:26:11pm

re: #546 No Dhummi

He is espousing ideas that support those advocating genocide. That is the claim. You are making the strawman argument that we are claiming that he is advocating genocide; I'm not, nor have I seen anyone post that here. What was said, is that he 1) ideologically supports those who do and 2) ideologically supports others with similar base ideologies (i.e. European fascists).

So, now with your strawman rent to the hay from which it was composed, what have you?

560 MrPaulRevere  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:26:53pm

re: #555 Thanos

It's all about selling the books. The same with Ann Coulter as well.

561 Render  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:27:17pm

re: #542 MrPaulRevere

I've had an uneasy feeling about FP ever since the Lawrence Auster days.

Not on my list.

SHORT
N
SWEET,
R

562 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:27:28pm

re: #554 William_Ryan

We aren't giving them ammo by outing malignant worms; we are ridding ourselves of ideological liabilities and true-to-life ENEMIES OF FREEDOM.

563 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:29:02pm

re: #546 No Dhummi

Again: His membership in the two groups in question coupled with his past support of fascist organizations provide compelling evidence of his guilt. The evidence that he is not guilty is not nearly as strong. My conclusion that he is guilty is not final, but I do not expect to revise it. Should Robert Spencer sincerely repudiate this group, no one will be happier to withdraw his conclusion than I.

564 Alberta Oil Peon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:29:09pm

re: #459 Walter L. Newton

OT - did you get my package?

Not yet, and I checked the mail today. Don't be too concerned, mail from the USA sometimes takes a long time to get here, other times it's very quick. Depends, I think, upon which route it takes.

565 Flavia  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:29:58pm

re: #461 SanFranciscoZionist

Naveen Andrews, the actor, is English and Indian. Also beautiful almost beyond belief. When he was in "Bride and Prejudice" with Aishwarya Rai I nearly died of too much beauty on one screen.

Oh, you, too? I mean, WOW!

(Yes, let's all try to refocus on something lovely just now....)

566 Aye Pod  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:30:13pm

I had a look on PG's site - not looking too healthy. The most popular post on her page at the moment has 30 comments - the average is probably about 4.

567 Syrah  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:30:48pm

Robert Spencer = Epic Fail.

568 Martinsmithy  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:31:31pm

It's now been almost 2.5 hours since Charles posted this, and I just took a look over at Jihad Watch and Dhimmi Watch (while holding my nose) and there is no response from Mr. Spencer.

My last ounce of respect for Spencer has officially gone "poof."

569 dapperdave  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:32:21pm

re: #517 zombie

Well it just goes to show "power flows out of a barrel of a gun"

570 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:33:08pm

re: #19 Charles

They advocate mass sterilization.

They are advocating more than mass sterilization, they advocate MURDER.

Furthermore this group also realises that the territories for resettlement in lower central Asia may not be currently suitable for such a large demographic intake and that therefore, mass sterilisation via sexual segregation and voluntary euthenasia programmes (may for the time being), need to remain on the table in order to prevent a latter humanitarian disaster.

This group's goals of reclaiming stolen and occupied lands sounds too much like what Radical Jihadis want to do when they spout about the World-wide Caliphate.

571 Martinsmithy  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:33:31pm

But, upon reflection, Spencer's an east coast guy, and from the looks of his picture he's probably not a party hound/night owl, so I'll see if he has any response tomorrow.

Not much chance of retracting that "poof" though ...

572 William_Ryan  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:33:43pm

re: #544 Sharmuta

I won't know if he's being honest any more or less than you will. he didn't denounce Pamela or any of his other friends before though when called out about it. For me to believe that he joined the group PUBLICLY, especially with all the high profile friends on his list who'd see it, then turned around and claimed he did it by accident the next day, b/c he's afraid of being 'caught' is too much too much.

Either he intended to do this or he didn't. If he says it was an accident, (it seems) it'll just prove to you that he's guilty. To me it won't - I just don't believe he'd intentionally join a group like that if he was embarassed about it. So tomorrow, if he says anything other than "I just hit Join Group", I'll be eating crow. If he says that's what he did, then I could go Troofer and imagine he joined a public lightning rod group intentionally thinking he wouldn't get 'caught' all so if he got caught he could make some convoluted denial afterward to clear his name - but I'll choose a different course.

573 No Dhummi  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:34:05pm

Alright, well, people have resorted to insults again and aren't actually addressing what I'm saying - or at least their comments towards me are more intended for other people to approve of rather than for me to be able to respond to them (Dan, I asked you precisely how what I said was a strawman and you didn't explain. You just again accused me again...)

I managed to get one person at least who originally insulted me to the point of defending me, so I think my work here is done. Again, all I'm saying is that not all the evidence is in and since there is no pressing urgency to make a judgment, a judgment over whether Spencer actually advocates genocide should be put off until all the evidence is in front of us (which requires giving him a chance to comment on this.)

If it turns out he does actually espouse these beliefs, I'll join you in my disgust and admit I was wrong to think it even possible that he didn't. But if it turns out that he actually doesn't espouse these beliefs, then I'm coming back for a big toldja so.

Good night everyone. Sweet dreams.

574 Aye Pod  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:35:28pm

re: #567 Syrah

Monumental. Glad I never bought or read any of his books.

575 MrPaulRevere  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:36:08pm

re: #561 Render

I understand your reticence. The decision to associate with Auster was a flawed one, no doubt about it.

576 William_Ryan  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:36:24pm

re: #562 Dan G.


No argument there. i guess I wasn't clear in what I was saying. I was saying that groups like the White Supremacists/Neo-Nazis give the left and jihadi's ammo to paint everyone else in the movement with - not that people who denounce them are giving lefties/jihadis ammo.

577 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:36:29pm

re: #558 Sharmuta

And he could still be lying.

Agreed. He would have to prove his sincerity over time. Still, a proper repudiation would be the first step and I will withhold final judgment until this afternoon to give him time to respond.

578 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:37:15pm

re: #572 William_Ryan

he didn't denounce Pamela or any of his other friends before though when called out about it.

That's quite true, and it always surprised me that he defended her even when it was shown beyond a reasonable doubt the VB was a neo-fascist, ethnic-nationalist group. Combine this with his other ties to ethnic nationalists, and I think the case can be made that he just doesn't see the problem with it.

579 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:37:18pm

re: #573 No Dhummi

No response? All out of strawmen and red herrings?

580 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:37:48pm

re: #579 Dan G.

No response? All out of strawmen and red herrings?

He's looking for a dog that will hunt.

581 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:39:40pm

re: #576 William_Ryan

In fact- gates of vienna openly attacked robert for "supporting" Charles, and he turned around and added them right back onto his blog roll. He also has LGF stalker blogs on his blog roll.

582 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:40:02pm

re: #573 No Dhummi

"Dan, I asked you precisely how what I said was a strawman and you didn't explain. You just again accused me again.."

Its right there in my response to you, in very clear English. Again, slowly. No one claimed Robert supported or plotted genocide, just that he is granting them a moral sanction in that he provides intellectual arguments that give a veneer of respectability/scholarship to their cause. I cannot write it any more clearly you lying sack of shit.

583 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:40:11pm

Fight Club - Chemical Burn - Kinetic Typography

/namaste, y'all

584 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:42:06pm

re: #573 No Dhummi

Good night, sir. We'll expect you back tomorrow, and we shall see who is wrong.

585 Syrah  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:42:28pm

re: #580 jcm

He's looking for a dog that will hunt.

And failing to find one, he might reconsider his stance.

A lot of people have invested more in Robert Spencer then he warranted. It will take some of them a little time to understand that it they would be better off letting Robert Spencer go.

People very rarely change their mind in an instance. A day, or a even a few days may be needed for some to accept that what is plain is plain.

586 freetoken  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:44:56pm

re: #538 redc1c4

ah yes: the "kiddie pr0n" defence.

You noticed ;-)

587 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:46:04pm

re: #585 Syrah

The other case, are the people who know full well what Robert stands for and choose to stand with him. There have been both types here tonight, their responses and arguments are very distinct from one another.

588 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:47:14pm

I guess I'd better catch a wee bit of shuteye... suspect that the fan is really going to hit the shit in a few hours.

Good luck with this Charles, I meant what I told you earlier.
Keep a steady hand, and a clear eye.

589 jcm  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:47:55pm

re: #585 Syrah

And failing to find one, he might reconsider his stance.

A lot of people have invested more in Robert Spencer then he warranted. It will take some of them a little time to understand that it they would be better off letting Robert Spencer go.

People very rarely change their mind in an instance. A day, or a even a few days may be needed for some to accept that what is plain is plain.

If Robert has a good explanation, great. But as I said above this pattern has been developing for quite awhile.

It's always though when someone we admire turns out to be a little or a lot less then we thought.

590 Dan G.  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:50:20pm

Goodnight all, values are worth fighting for. Tough decisions lead to the forging of good character.

Good luck, Charles.

591 theheat  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:51:52pm

So, Spencer's a Kloset Klukker, eh? Pretty disgusting. I can line my bird cage with his book, too. Screw him and the rest of the genocidal maniacs.

Is it me, or does it seem like people are going farther toward the fringes, lately? If they were far right, they go way far right into either religious fanaticism or Klukkerville, and if they're far left they go even farther left 'til they're in the Marxist/ Che/ Code Pink territory. I like my lefties and righties more toward the center.

592 Mardukhai  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:54:56pm

Greece during the Great Idea period is actually my specialty. I am writing a book on the Greek occupation and destruction of Salonika.

One of the sad facts of history is that victims often learn the wrong lessons of history...

593 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:55:15pm

re: #591 theheat

So, Spencer's a Kloset Klukker, eh? Pretty disgusting. I can line my bird cage with his book, too. Screw him and the rest of the genocidal maniacs.

Is it me, or does it seem like people are going farther toward the fringes, lately? If they were far right, they go way far right into either religious fanaticism or Klukkerville, and if they're far left they go even farther left 'til they're in the Marxist/ Che/ Code Pink territory. I like my lefties and righties more toward the center.

We live in polarized times. When the two sides are as far apart as they are now, there isn't much room for a middle.

594 Syrah  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:55:55pm

re: #587 Dan G.

The other case, are the people who know full well what Robert stands for and choose to stand with him. There have been both types here tonight, their responses and arguments are very distinct from one another.

Agreed.

Some will decide (and some certainly have already decided) that Robert's course is the correct one. Once they harden their heart to that, there will be little chance of any of us being able to persuade them otherwise. For such as that, it is best for us to have as little to do with them as possible.

595 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:56:34pm

re: #572 William_Ryan

That's nice- you're calling me a troofer because I've watched this man over the course of months draw closer to fascist groups instead of repelling them and doubt any "apology" would be sincere.

I've watched for months as he coddles ethnic nationalists groups and smears a good man and some of my friends just for noticing. You're damn straight I will doubt his "apology" tomorrow. He should quit with the pretenses, imo.

As for your snide insult, I don't expect an apology from you after robert "retracts", but I expect within the next year, you'll know I was right.

596 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:56:37pm

re: #592 Mardukhai

Greece during the Great Idea period is actually my specialty. I am writing a book on the Greek occupation and destruction of Salonika.

One of the sad facts of history is that victims often learn the wrong lessons of history...

Please share your insights with us here. You may be able to help us understand how this nutty group can into being and who might be behind it.

597 Mardukhai  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:56:40pm

Actually, these guys are so far out, I'm having trouble with the idea that Robert Spencer is a serious supporter. But I only spoke to him once. He just may support the "Megali Idea" (that's what they call Greater Greece).

598 Syrah  Wed, Feb 11, 2009 11:57:56pm

re: #589 jcm

If Robert has a good explanation, great. But as I said above this pattern has been developing for quite awhile.

It's always though when someone we admire turns out to be a little or a lot less then we thought.

Robert's pattern is too firmly set. I don't think he can muster a good explanation.

599 Mardukhai  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:03:03am

For those who want to know, Greece was occupied and humiliated by the Turks for seven hundred years. Between 1453 and 1830, not a single Greek could hold his head up like a man. The Turks tore down Constantinople and built Istanbul.

Then the Turks overstretched. They asked the Egyptians to invade to put down a revolt (in 1827, off the top of my head). The Egyptians behaved so badly that the European powers destroyed their navy and said STOP!

The result was an independent Greek mini-kingdom (for thirty years as a protectorate of Bavaria) with its capital in Athens.

In 1912, in the First Balkan Was, the Greeks had a major victory and doubled the size of their kingdom, occupying a lot of land and islands -- and the Sephardic Jewish city of Salonika, which their fascist dictator Venizelos apparently burned down in 1916...

600 Syrah  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:06:22am

I don't know how any once can read this paragraph from that facebook group:

Once the former East Roman capital is recaptured every single brick, pavingstone, copper wire, bolt nut & screw, piece of ceramic, shard of glass, plank of wood and fleck of paint, placed within this city after May 29th 1453 will be systematicallly demolished, melted burnt and ground down into a fine dust, shipped out to the middle of the North Atlantic Ocean in oil tankers and sporadically scattered over a wide area, so that there will be no physical remains of the city of Istanbul whatsoever.

And not see that pathological hatred that is at the heart of this group. This is so extreme that it is frightening.

That paragraph sprays spittle and rage.

601 Mardukhai  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:06:41am

The Greeks rebuilt Salonika as "Thessaloniki" and Jewish culture was wiped out. Even its memory is gone.

In 1921, the powers greatly expanded Greece again, giving them everything in Thrace but Constantinople itself and Smyrna and surrounding territory.

It should have been enough, but the Greeks got greedy and invaded Anatolia. Ataturk beat them and wiped out the remaining Greeks and Armenians.

Greeks have been nursing a grudge ever since. But so have the Turks.

In a nutshell!

602 Mardukhai  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:07:37am

re: #596 Dark_Falcon

You asked!

603 gulfloafer  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:08:04am

re: #589 jcm
"Stand with anybody that stands right, stand with him while he is right and part from him when he goes wrong." --Lincoln

If that's Spencer's position and not some sort practical joke being played on him or an honest mistake on his part, he's toast. He effectively destroyed any bit of credibility he ever had.

604 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:09:01am
CAMPAIGN FOR THE 'RECONQUISTA' IN ANATOLIA!

I'm sorry- how can anyone with even a cursory knowledge of islamic imperialism, that robert obviously does, not know the implications of a group that has "reconquista" in the title? Wouldn't you maybe, you know, read just a few sentences even before you clicked "join"? At a minimum? Even if you didn't, how can you not know the implications of "reconquista"?

605 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:09:08am

re: #602 Mardukhai

You asked!

Thank you, sir. The info does help.

606 NoelArmourson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:09:27am

re: #601 Mardukhai

So it is a tough and bitter nut.

607 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:10:32am

Say, have any of you read Mein Kampf? Talk about satire. What real fuckin' knee slapper that was, eh?
/

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with some people?

608 Mardukhai  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:10:36am

re: #31 Buster Bunny

Yattrib, or Yathrib is Medina now, not Mecca. And it's sad what happened to the people of that town.

609 Mardukhai  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:12:12am

re: #606 NoelArmourson

So it is a tough and bitter nut.

Very bitter! Like the Arab-Israeli conflict, but going back much further, and with both sides acting very, very badly.

610 jcm  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:16:28am

re: #598 Syrah

Robert's pattern is too firmly set. I don't think he can muster a good explanation.

You're right, I'm the type always hold out a little hope....

611 jcm  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:17:48am

re: #607 Slumbering Behemoth

Say, have any of you read Mein Kampf? Talk about satire. What real fuckin' knee slapper that was, eh?
/

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with some people?

Communist Manifesto is another classic piece of satire...
////

612 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:22:38am

re: #579 Dan G.

No response? All out of strawmen and red herrings?

Needs to get more talking points, apparently. The ones he has are a bit moldy.

613 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:27:11am

re: #610 jcm

You're right, I'm the type always hold out a little hope....

Robert has set his path, apparently, and so offers little to no chance of changing any time soon.

614 Render  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:27:12am

Analekta Informatics

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

[Link: apps.facebook.com...]

So many Serbs...

HOW
VERY
SAD,
R

615 darkster2400  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:27:35am

well since it is now Lincoln's Birthday - I commned Charles by quoting Lincoln - “Be sure you put your feet in the right place, then stand firm.”

616 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:28:36am

re: #339 ploome hineni

why adult sign up on facebook?

I assume you are asking why any adult would sign get an account on facebook or similar sites, right?

If so, here is a good reason: Aside from doing the traditional background checks and credit checks that employers run on prospective employees, now they (employers) are also doing web searchers on potential employees.

I don't have an account on any social networking site, but if I were in the market for a "big gig", and were an enterprising adult, I would sign up for one with the intent of presenting a professional image and adding an extra air of dependability to my persona with some things that might not fit on a one page resume.

617 hazzyday  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:31:04am

re: #195 jcm

The complete unilateral and unnegotiable permanent ethnic transformation of theses territories in order to coopt the first aim.

Should be enough by itself.

That's a world war. Death toll would be tremendous. But I don't think there are enough people of the ilk to move on anything like this. It seems like rantings and meglomania to me.

618 jcm  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:34:09am

re: #613 FurryOldGuyJeans

Robert has set his path, apparently, and so offers little to no chance of changing any time soon.

Yep, it was that May article I found up in re: #86 jcm the cliched it for me, the logo and whole setup was a perfect lead in to this.

619 jcm  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:36:02am

re: #617 hazzyday

That's a world war. Death toll would be tremendous. But I don't think there are enough people of the ilk to move on anything like this. It seems like rantings and meglomania to me.

That one sentence from Armenia to Ukraine to China, Cambodia, Rwanda. All neatly coldly summarized.

Gave me chills.

620 jcm  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:37:38am

Good night Liberty Honcos!

Happy Birthday Lincoln and Darwin.

America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Abraham Lincoln

621 LynnfromNZ  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:50:22am

re: #237 Charles

This reminds me of something I read in Insight magazine in the 1980s, evidently the Aryan Nations and other white hate morons got together with their equally insane black hate morons, and "decided" to "divide" America basically at the Mississippi -- whites get the West and blacks get the east. Right. As if. The magazine treated it as if it were a serious threat. I burst out laughing and never took Arnaud de Borchgrave or Insight seriously again.

If anything this proposal here is even more ludicrous. Get a grip, people. If you own Istanbul real estate don't hurry to sell before it's knocked down and dumped in the middle of the sea.

Sheesh.

622 LynnfromNZ  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:50:49am

re: #240 SanFranciscoZionist

Amen. Well spoken.

623 LynnfromNZ  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:52:23am

re: #268 jcm

Taking these jackasses seriously will only benefit them. Ignore them, they hate that more than anything.

624 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:54:20am

re: #621 LynnfromNZ

This group isn't the main issue- it's the fact the robert spencer has decided they're a group worth joining.

625 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:56:28am

re: #621 LynnfromNZ

The simple fact that apparently Robert Spenser considers this a group worthy enough to join gives them a lot of credibility.

626 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 12:57:22am

re: #623 LynnfromNZ

Robert Spenser apparently joining the group gives them a whole lot of exposure, and credibility.

627 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 1:02:17am

re: #625 FurryOldGuyJeans

I don't know if she gets that in order to show the vile depths to which robert has stooped, you kind of have to look at the group he joined.

628 Edouard  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 1:10:30am

Well, I'm certainly very, very distressed about this Anatolia business, as I have in the past read and appreciated Spencer's research into the history of the adherents to and opponents of jihad. I'm going to put aside Spencer's books now. I don't know how it's possible to explain away a personal association with such a reprehensible group.

Folks it is so easy to remove yourself from a Facebook group. It's scandalizing that he has not done so by now.

I am not happy to find out that he has been engaged in actively insulting our host Charles. There's absolutely nothing "cordial" about that, to use one of Spencer's favorite terms.

I'm now turning any attention that I once had for Spencer's work over to the work of Dr Andrew Bostom, who to the best of my knowledge has never come close to agreeing to anything like such a deplorable personal affiliation.

629 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 1:13:34am

re: #628 Edouard

So far, Daniel Pipes has shown he's a respectable man too.

630 Summer Seale  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 1:15:44am

I'm just blown away that Spencer has turned out this way. It's an incredible shame.

I'm even more blown away that Pamela still hangs out with these people. For heaven's sake...she's Jewish. I mean, hardcore Jewish. Or at least...she pretends to be.

When I think about it, no real self-respecting Jew would hang out with those people. I suppose, as a completely non-Jew, I still make a better one than she does at this point.

It's extremely sad, to say the least.

Also, I've been subscribed to David Horowitz's Frontpage TV podcast channel and he had Robert Spencer as a guest speaker a few times lately. I'm wondering...has David Horowitz gone off the deep end as well? I can't imagine that he has but, at this point, I have to simply ask. Is Spencer still his friend or not? Frontpage Magazine always struck me as a touch hysterical at times, but it usually was fairly decent overall. Have we, defacto, lost them as well? If not, maybe somebody should get in touch with Horowitz and bring this to his attention?

Charles, I know it's really late and you're probably asleep by now, but if this gets to you...you probably have direct contact with Horowitz so I would be really interested to know what's going on with that. Spencer spoke only two months ago and last month I believe, on behalf of events for his organization. I'd really like to know if he's no longer welcome or is still somebody they will continue to court...

631 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 1:17:25am

re: #630 Summer

I'm concerned about Mr. Horowitz, too.

632 Render  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 1:17:42am

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

There's Mr. Spencer's new friend Nick Griffin with an old friend of Griffins -David Duke.

Photo added July 7, 2008

===

The flag behind them is the old Republic of Montenegro (1993-2004) flag.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I have no idea (yet) who the other geezers in the photo are.

PRE
EMPTIVE,
R

633 Summer Seale  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 1:22:05am

re: #631 Sharmuta

I'm concerned about Mr. Horowitz, too.

I just sent an email/contact form inquiry about it to Frontpage. I'm extremely disturbed. Spencer has been on Horowitz's TV Podcast like twice in the last two months or something. And Horowitz isn't exactly an unknown figure. Considering he was just on Glenn Beck's show as well, I'd say this is a very serious matter...

634 Edouard  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 1:23:30am

!

Sharmuta -- Yikes! What the hell is this on Bostom's blog dated Feb 11 '09? I immediately went to check Bostom's blog after writing my comment. I already have Bostom's book "The Legacy of Jihad" -- but what the h-e-double-toothpicks is this -- some kind of coordinated attack on the Lizard Nation going on?

Where the hell do anti-fascist, anti-white supremacist opponents of jihad go, if Bostom -- Bostom also! -- engages in such a personal attack?

I feel like I've just been pole-axed by these guys. Et tu, Andrew Bostom?

I agree with you about Daniel Pipes, but I better shut up for the time being because I don't want to jinx anything! I am just floored by these attacks on LGF and Charles in particular.

Dr Bostom for G_d's sakes!

635 Summer Seale  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 1:25:10am

And just to follow up: I really, really, don't understand Pamela at all. At this point, she's just one bitter and jealous bitch who can never say sorry - ever - or she really is the most self-serving bitch I can think of. Either way, I am so outraged and disgusted by her behavior.

I just can't think of any other reason why she would be so openly associating, defending, and promoting Nazis. There's some serious dementia going on there.

636 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 1:26:05am

re: #634 Edouard

IIRC, Daniel Pipes was given a less than warm welcome at counter-jihad conference in Israel late last year. Because he was a voice of moderation, he wasn't really what they wanted to hear. I think he's a safe bet at least for now.

637 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 1:27:37am

re: #634 Edouard

And I forget until just now that Bosom's gone off the deep end concerning Charles too. I hope all these people enjoy their fleas.

638 Syrah  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 1:27:44am

re: #634 Edouard

There was something of this back when Charles first outed the Brussels conference.

I don't recall the details, only that Charles had made a comment that Bostom had said something to him that was less then "cordial".

639 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 1:35:27am

re: #635 Summer

You can go down to the Geert Wilders thread and see for yourself people advocating their own freedoms be removed, such as free speech rights. It's really stunning. These folks are so focused on the issue of jihad that they've lost sight of what it is we're fighting for- they already want to throw away the very best of our freedoms just to stop others from enjoying them in their own way. It's disturbing, and depressing.

640 Syrah  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 1:37:38am

Its late.

See you all next evening.

641 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 1:38:05am

re: #640 Syrah

Good night!

642 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 1:52:19am

re: #633 Summer

Mr. Horowitz I'm willing to extend the benefit of the doubt. He may have no idea what's really going on with robert since he's a busy man in his own right. I do hope he looks into it, and makes the right decision.

643 aussie_dave  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 1:52:52am

I found a "Jan Sobieski" on that Group using Geert Wilder's picture. I know it doesn't disprove anything but it shows how fradulent Facebook can be.

644 aussie_dave  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 1:55:26am

OH man I just found Darrin Hodges on that Group who is a well known racist here in Sydney. :(

645 Render  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 1:59:55am

[Link: www.facebook.com...]

So, who is Chris Triffid?

WHATS
THE
STORY,
R

646 LynnfromNZ  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 2:00:51am

re: #624 Sharmuta

That probably says a lot more about Robert Spencer than the group. I'd like to hear from him why he joined, I'll assume he's smarter than to think it's a workable plan, so I'd really like to hear him say just what he was thinking. It does damage his credibility, yes.

647 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 2:09:41am

re: #645 Render

I'm sure McCain wouldn't appreciate being in that company.

648 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 2:13:41am

re: #644 aussie_dave

That surprises you? That a racist would join this group?

649 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 2:24:38am

re: #646 LynnfromNZ

Like I said earlier- considering the knowledge of this man, it's a little hard to accept he accidentally joined a group with "reconquista" in the name. How can one ignore the full history and implications of that word when they know as much about islam as robert does? Additionally, he's promoted "Free Constantinople" on his site for quite some time. I think he knew what he was doing, it's just likely he didn't think he'd get spotted at it.

650 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 2:28:40am

Robert has responded and is claiming he's the victim of a hoax and set up.

651 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 2:31:39am
But in this case I have fallen victim to an Internet prank. Johnson's response to my joining this group was so swift that I suspect that the group itself, and its invitation that I join it, was a hoax and a setup, but in any case I freely acknowledge my mistake: I was working through a number of such requests hurriedly, and joined the group without looking further at what it was all about. I didn't read any of the material the group had posted, which Johnson says advocates genocide and ethnic cleansing and even links to the Aryan Nations.

Sure, robert.

652 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 2:40:41am

Nice scholarly eye to detail he's admitting he lacks too.

Don't you know what "reconquista" means, robert?

653 Erik The Red  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 2:47:51am

Waiting for the comments to start over there only 2 so far.

654 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 2:51:57am
Johnson's response to my joining this group was so swift that I suspect that the group itself, and its invitation that I join it, was a hoax and a setup

This is laughable- he claims he joined at 2 in the afternoon (eastern?), yet Charles wasn't made aware of it until much later in the day, and only because another friend of robert's on facebook noticed. Charles didn't post this thread until 9 Pacific. That's at least 10 hours. Yeah- some "swift" response, robert!

655 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 2:55:16am

gre: #650 Sharmuta

Robert has responded and is claiming he's the victim of a hoax and set up.

Late to the party but I think I read up thread that he has been a member of this group for over a month? How is that being 'duped into a hoax'? Even if this is a 'hoax' it is sad that Spencer's position has toed the line with these white nationalist groups to the point that it really wouldn't be 'surprising' if it wasn't a hoax.

Even then, this is beside the point, my main concern is seeing how quickly we will see people 'apologize' for the perpetrator. People jump to defend the perpetrator and twist it around as if Charles is the bad guy. Unbelievable. The surprise here is the besmirching of Charles and turning him into a pariah by the other 'conservative' blogs for standing on principles which they should feel damn ashamed that they choose not to uphold.

656 freetoken  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 2:58:10am

re: #655 Oh no...Sand People!

He calls himself a victim of an "internet prank", something which itself is strange. What is the "prank", expecting someone to actually read at least the title on a form before clicking the button?

657 Oh no...Sand People!  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 3:02:04am

re: #656 freetoken

He calls himself a victim of an "internet prank", something which itself is strange. What is the "prank", expecting someone to actually read at least the title on a form before clicking the button?

Is he that much of a 'publicity' seeker that he would just click *ACCEPT* to any invitation that comes his way? He should understand that who he associates with will come into play at some point...unless you are Obama that is...

658 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 3:05:41am

An islamic scholar who doesn't understand what "reconquista" means?

Either the dumbest islamic scholar ever, or a bald face liar. You be the judge.

659 Tigger2005  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 3:09:15am
But in this case I have fallen victim to an Internet prank. Johnson's response to my joining this group was so swift that I suspect that the group itself, and its invitation that I join it, was a hoax and a setup

Robert, the very fact that you even consider the possibility that Charles set up a fake FaceBook page and invited you to join it in order to (further) discredit you, which is what you're clearly implying, speaks volumes about your fragility of mind. Get a grip, man.

660 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 3:09:48am

re: #656 freetoken

He calls himself a victim of an "internet prank", something which itself is strange. What is the "prank", expecting someone to actually read at least the title on a form before clicking the button?

That's a good point. The "prank" was only "effective" because according to robert's own admission, he was sloppy. How would a prankster be able to effectively manipulate his schedule and timing of the invitation so as to make sure he just didn't have the time to really go over what he was doing?

661 BlueCanuck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 3:11:50am

Reposted from the Overnight thread:

Okay, here's the problem I have with that. Friends can send you join requests. You must have an idea who your friends are in order to link to them. If I am in doubt personally I won't jump both feet into anything. RS is obviously older than I and should be even more alert to this kind of thing. So I find his excuse laughable to the extreme. Here's another thing as well. When you join a group you are taken to the front page where it will give all sorts of details. Including page, forums and other such links. If he didn't even peruse just one, then he is no scholar.

662 Tigger2005  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 3:12:29am

re: #660 Sharmuta

That's a good point. The "prank" was only "effective" because according to robert's own admission, he was sloppy. How would a prankster be able to effectively manipulate his schedule and timing of the invitation so as to make sure he just didn't have the time to really go over what he was doing?

So it wasn't Charles ... it was Rove, that magnificent bastard!

663 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 3:15:22am

re: #662 Tigger2005

So it wasn't Charles ... it was Rove, that magnificent bastard!

And he got away with it too because robert can't take the time to, you know, read.

664 MrPaulRevere  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 3:15:52am

I bet Roberts reaction to seeing this thread was just like Jimmy Swaggart's reaction when he saw the cop car with flashing lights in his rear view mirror after he picked up the hooker.

665 luxomni  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 3:22:24am

Maybe shame on me for missing the truth in one of the 664 messages before mine, but I haven't found one message so far that really gets it.

The whole thing is a reductio-ad-absurdum parody. This is the same logic as the Palestinians in reverse.

666 guftafs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 3:27:54am

haha

Hey Bobbie, you still "sifting through the evidence"?! You sad wanker. (Reminiscent of that Holocaust-denying bishop. Like minds think alike, I guess.)

667 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 3:28:47am

If RS had the stones to just come out and admit he was sloppy and stupid this would be a non-event. Spouting conspiracy and muttering it was some setup by someone else to try to discredit him is simply paranoid ideation. He has shown he has as much credibility as a nirther or troofer, and just as much a grasp on reality.

668 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 3:41:00am

re: #665 luxomni

All you'll be getting is a dose of downding karma for being so obtuse.

669 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 3:55:50am

re: #636 Sharmuta

IIRC, Daniel Pipes was given a less than warm welcome at counter-jihad conference in Israel late last year. Because he was a voice of moderation, he wasn't really what they wanted to hear. I think he's a safe bet at least for now.

Yes, Pipes is a voice of reason. I have in the past linked to his articles in which he actually discusses the options to those who oppose islamization of certain societies and openly pointed out that if push came to shove then genocide would be one of them. He did not advocate this but he has always been very consequential and thorough in his analysis of political climate, actions and possibilities.

People need to be aware of how serious these situations become. You cannot just reach a conclusion where you have identified a problem and then be proud of having found something you and other people do not approve of. You have to actually think through every means of solving the problem which involves also the ugly aspects so that they can be avoided in time.

Spencer is not a voice of reason. He is content with having reached his point of opposition and riding it into the rising sun, hopping on any band wagon that he think will "serve the cause" which in his case really just boils down to riling people up and let them live out their hatred. I knew he was a demagogue only interested in getting emotional responses out of people after this post of his in which he mixed up and got wrong so many points while at the same time being not clear on any of them and just being full of glee in merely "implicating" things.

He has fallen a long way. And even though the fact of Charles' original post in this thread is disgusting, I am glad the despicable carelessness Spencer has about the ethical integrity of his own ideological stance comes to light more and more. Thank you, Charles, for pointing out this bigotry and for keeping people aware of the fact that you cannot fight bigotry on one side with bigotry and stay a sane human being.

670 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 3:57:53am

re: #669 000G

the fact that you cannot fight bigotry on one side with bigotry and stay a sane human being.

That should have read "fight bigotry on one side with bigotry on another side". D'uh.

671 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:04:54am
672 yochanan  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:05:28am

seems like this is just the other side of the same coin as islmo fascist expansionism.

673 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:06:20am
But in this case I have fallen victim to an Internet prank. Johnson's response to my joining this group was so swift that I suspect that the group itself, and its invitation that I join it, was a hoax and a setup, but in any case I freely acknowledge my mistake: I was working through a number of such requests hurriedly, and joined the group without looking further at what it was all about. I didn't read any of the material the group had posted, which Johnson says advocates genocide and ethnic cleansing and even links to the Aryan Nations.

Let's break this "hoax" theory down, shall we?

First- the oldest comment on that facebook site is from October 26, 2008. That's a substantially long amount of time to dedicate to pulling off a hoax to entrap just one person.

Second- this "hoax" managed to rope in over 300 other people before it got to its intended "target".

Third- the "hoax" required a facebook friend of robert's joining the group and inviting him to join.

Fourth- the "hoax" also required another one of robert's facebook friends blowing the whistle once he was invited to join.

Fifth- the "swift" reaction took 10 hours.

Sixth- the entire "hoax" depended upon robert not paying attention to what he was doing, because according to him, that is his excuse for having joined this group in the first place. Had he been paying attention he wouldn't have joined.

There you have it- a "hoax" so well planned, so dependent upon not only others but the timing of the "victim's" inability to devote attention to what he was doing, that it was a "success".

674 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:08:17am
675 (I Stand By What I Said Whatever It Was)  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:10:13am

re: #673 Sharmuta

Let's break this "hoax" theory down, shall we?

First- the oldest comment on that facebook site is from October 26, 2008. That's a substantially long amount of time to dedicate to pulling off a hoax to entrap just one person.

Second- this "hoax" managed to rope in over 300 other people before it got to its intended "target".

Third- the "hoax" required a facebook friend of robert's joining the group and inviting him to join.

Fourth- the "hoax" also required another one of robert's facebook friends blowing the whistle once he was invited to join.

Fifth- the "swift" reaction took 10 hours.

Sixth- the entire "hoax" depended upon robert not paying attention to what he was doing, because according to him, that is his excuse for having joined this group in the first place. Had he been paying attention he wouldn't have joined.

There you have it- a "hoax" so well planned, so dependent upon not only others but the timing of the "victim's" inability to devote attention to what he was doing, that it was a "success".

Right on the money, but it really is a waste of time. Spencer is morally and intellectually bankrupt. What's sad is that many people will just not care to see this because Spencer is cranking out a lot of anti-jihad juice and his readers are altogether too willing to suck it up without daring or caring to go one step beyond the pure hatred that Spencer takes them to.

676 Ojoe  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:11:38am

It is so important to maintain the distinction between

islam

and

Muslims

677 Irish Rose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:21:49am

So, let me get this straight... poor Robert is innocent, the victim of an internet prank. It's all a setup by the evil Charles Johnson to discredit his work.

Right.
Why am I not surprised?

Mr. Spencer, you are a GODDAMNED FUCKING LIAR.

678 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:26:39am
679 Cutty Sark  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:28:10am

I doubt Spencer would share such views . Guilt by 'association " ?

Either Spencer got duped or it WAS an internet prank .


And if anyone thinks the intelligent cannot be snookered , just take a look at the list of Bernie Madoff's victims .

680 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:28:43am

re: #678 Thunder Pig

I had a feeling you'd show up. I knew Charles should have banned your ass long ago, fascist lover. Enjoy your fleas.

681 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:30:13am

re: #679 Cutty Sark

robert was sloppy and he's the most incompetent islamic "scholar" in the world if he doesn't know what is meant by "reconquista". That and he's completely paranoid.

682 Render  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:34:00am

Google search term "robert spencer stormfront"

Don't say I didn't warn you.

Google search term "little green footballs stormfront"

The difference is very obvious and very telling.

===

Frankly at this point I'm inclined to think Mr. Spencer is not nearly as astute as his readers have been led to believe.

That site on Facebook is not a hoax, it's author is quite serious.

===

Spencer, you need to get clear of this before your reputation is irreparably damaged (not here - you're finished here - with your remaining readers and publishers). To begin with you'll need a far better excuse then what you've written publicly so far.

With one simple little "mistake" you've confirmed everything the little Albanian girl wrote about you.

EVERY
THING,
R

683 Erik The Red  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:38:26am

re: #678 Thunder Pig

The conduct of Charles (and his sycophants) have become nearly indistinguishable from that of Daily Kos and the Democratic Underground.

3..2..1...

Sock puppet or troll? You choose. Now go away.

684 Wishbone  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:39:05am

Whatever else is thought of Spencer (and I really couldn't give a fuck what people think of him either way) the one thing he isn't, is a complete fucking idiot.

Which is what he'd most assuredly have to be to knowingly subscribe to such a group thinking that it would pass by you lot.

Makes me wonder who the real idiots are.

685 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:40:34am

re: #683 Erik The Red

He's a fascist sympathizer I spotted when this whole thing first blew up with pamela. When I saw him this morning at JW, I wondered if his account was still active, but I didn't try that hard to find out.

686 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:42:14am

re: #684 Wishbone

Oh- robert would have you believe it was a hoax that Charles perpetrated on him. How's that for idiotic? Want to swallow that turd sandwich?

687 Erik The Red  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:44:48am

re: #685 Sharmuta

He's a fascist sympathizer I spotted when this whole thing first blew up with pamela. When I saw him this morning at JW, I wondered if his account was still active, but I didn't try that hard to find out.

You have been busy tonight Shamuta. Did you get any sleep?

688 freetoken  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:46:48am

re: #684 Wishbone


Which is what he'd most assuredly have to be to knowingly subscribe to such a group thinking that it would pass by you lot.

After comparing this thread (from its start) to the one now running parallel over on Jihadwatch... my conclusion of which group is the one suffering cognitive dissonance... is not the one here at LGF.

And before you dismiss me as just another sycophant here, if you look at my posting history you would discover it is not unusual that I am in the minority on various topics discussed at LGF...

689 liam76  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:50:07am

Wow, I used to have a lot of respect for this guy.

I have seen him speak (on you tube) and read some of his books.

Anyone have a response from him?

Is there a chance it isn't his real account, or that he has an intern/assistant running it?

690 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:51:22am

re: #688 freetoken

And before you dismiss me as just another sycophant here, if you look at my posting history you would discover it is not unusual that I am in the minority on various topics discussed at LGF...

I don't know about that- you're usually fairly level headed. The name calling is just a smear they like to toss out as us, as if we couldn't say the same thing about the people rabidly defending robert right now. The difference is, we don't call them that.

691 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:51:54am

re: #689 liam76

He's responded at his own site.

692 Wishbone  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:53:02am

What part of "Couldn't give a fuck what people think of him either way" do you want help with? Here's a hint..... I'm entirely ambiguous about the whole affair...... In short.... I don't really care.

To believe that Spencer is the villain of the piece in this instance does, however, require that the man be a complete imbecile; Which would require a certain amount of idiocy on the part of the believer given that it's quite obvious he's far from that.

693 liam76  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:53:37am

I just read his explination on "jihadwatch".

I think it is silly to say it was a prank by LGF, I do buy his explination that some group contacted him and he joined without checking it out closely.

694 Erik The Red  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:55:19am

re: #692 Wishbone

What part of "Couldn't give a fuck what people think of him either way" do you want help with? Here's a hint..... I'm entirely ambiguous about the whole affair...... In short.... I don't really care.

To believe that Spencer is the villain of the piece in this instance does, however, require that the man be a complete imbecile; Which would require a certain amount of idiocy on the part of the believer given that it's quite obvious he's far from that.

Than why throw your 2 cents in if"you do not give a fuck"

695 Wishbone  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:58:30am

re: #688 freetoken

And before you dismiss me as just another sycophant here, if you look at my posting history you would discover it is not unusual that I am in the minority on various topics discussed at LGF...

Why would I dismiss you as anything of the sort? Or am I somehow expected to think in those terms because I happen to have a differing opinion?

696 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 4:59:31am

re: #693 liam76

Perhaps you should read this entire thread, and some of the links on it, but you're free to think what you will, obviously.

697 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:01:33am

re: #692 Wishbone

To believe that Spencer is the villain of the piece in this instance does, however, require that the man be a complete imbecile; Which would require a certain amount of idiocy on the part of the believer given that it's quite obvious he's far from that.

According to robert, he was framed. How stupid do we have to be to believe that? It's insulting to the intelligence of anyone reading about this.

698 Wishbone  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:01:48am

re: #694 Erik The Red

Because such shrill thinking surely can't pass without comment. Even my apathy can't get any peace with all the clatter.

699 freetoken  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:03:09am

re: #692 Wishbone

I don't really care.

Then why have you now made two posts on a thread which is not on the top of the stack at LGF?

Of course you care... at least enough to type in two replies.

And no, it does not make Spencer out to be an imbecile. As I pointed out earlier, he could just have been lazy and decided to click on a bunch of invitations without reading the pages that those Facebook groups have.

However, in addition to that Spencer now has concocted some sort of conspiracy of Charles manipulating facebook, a sort of entrapment.

700 Erik The Red  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:03:53am

re: #698 Wishbone

Because such shrill thinking surely can't pass without comment. Even my apathy can't get any peace with all the clatter.

Have you read the whole thread? If not go back and do so and you may begin to understand. BTW I am also a Red and hope they don't throw it away this season.

701 Render  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:04:13am

Hey Bone.

Are you calling me an idiot?

LONG
LEASH,
R

702 Wishbone  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:06:06am

Doesn't matter whether he believes it's a conspiracy or not. What matters is how stupid he needs to be, to be capable of throwing himself off the cliff like that.

As I said......I don't believe he'd knowingly put himself in any position to take this kind of flak: He just isn't that stupid.

703 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:07:46am

re: #702 Wishbone

Right- it doesn't matter if he's tossing out wild conspiracy theories to save his sorry ass reputation. It only goes to show that maybe he's paranoid and delusion, but surely not stupid.....

704 Wishbone  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:09:49am

re: #699 freetoken

Curiosity does not equate to giving a shit.

On that note, I need to get back to the job I'm being payed to do.

Au Revoir

oh and Erik..............YNWA ;)

705 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:10:03am

BTW- I don't think robert's stupid. A liar, but not stupid.

706 Erik The Red  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:10:28am

re: #702 Wishbone

Doesn't matter whether he believes it's a conspiracy or not. What matters is how stupid he needs to be, to be capable of throwing himself off the cliff like that.

As I said......I don't believe he'd knowingly put himself in any position to take this kind of flak: He just isn't that stupid.

That's the problem. He did and his response is " less than stellar" If he had handled this differently it would have gone away. Instead comes out in attack mode and blames Cato and Charles of setting him up.

But in this case I have fallen victim to an Internet prank. Johnson's response to my joining this group was so swift that I suspect that the group itself, and its invitation that I join it, was a hoax and a setup,

707 capitalist piglet  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:26:15am

re: #706 Erik The Red

That's the problem. He did and his response is " less than stellar" If he had handled this differently it would have gone away. Instead comes out in attack mode and blames Cato and Charles of setting him up.

But in this case I have fallen victim to an Internet prank. Johnson's response to my joining this group was so swift that I suspect that the group itself, and its invitation that I join it, was a hoax and a setup,


At first I thought it was a cuckoo clock I heard when I read that, but on second thought, it was the world's smallest violin.

708 onepistoffyid  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:31:22am

Charles:

I honestly think Spencer just made a mistake based upon his posting on Jiahdwatch; if he removes himself from that facebook group, which he absolutely should do immediately, I think everyone needs to reconsider this sad episode.

709 Erik The Red  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:36:28am

re: #708 onepistoffyid

Charles:

I honestly think Spencer just made a mistake based upon his posting on Jiahdwatch; if he removes himself from that facebook group, which he absolutely should do immediately, I think everyone needs to reconsider this sad episode.

Mistake or not. His response to the whole thing is wrong. He came out in full attack mode against Charles and Cato. Fuck him.

710 guftafs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:37:07am

But in this case I have fallen victim to an Internet prank. Johnson's response to my joining this group was so swift that I suspect that the group itself, and its invitation that I join it, was a hoax and a setup,

[ SOFT WOMAN'S VOICE ECHOING INSIDE SPENCER'S HEAD]: Yes, Robert. It was all a setup, an elaborate fraud made for you and others like you, the great mass of individuals straddling between open support of fastists/racists and preserving a respectable front. You see, the whole world centres around you, if not all the time, then most of the time, and people like Charles Johnson, who really only are like fifth pike-bearer from the left in your life's story, have nothing better to do than to scheme against you, how to next embarrass you publicly. That's all they're really about. Anyone sane can see that. You really couldn't help it Robert, you only mean well, it wasn't your fault. Who are you to blame? You are a scholar, Robert, and an important scholar, not running the risk of turning into the token Hausjude to sinister forces as some vile people perhaps would claim, now come take my hand ...

711 Irish Rose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:38:09am

Spencer has been caught with his pants down.

The man is lying through his teeth, it's so damned obvious to anyone who is familiar with the behavior of serial bullies. I've been targeted by more than one serial bully over the years, and I can tell you that Spencer more than fits the profile:

From [Link: www.bullyonline.org...] How do I recognize a bully?

Jekyll & Hyde nature - vicious and vindictive in private, but innocent and charming in front of witnesses; no-one can (or wants to) believe this individual has a vindictive nature - only the current target sees both sides

is a convincing, compulsive liar and when called to account, will make up anything spontaneously to fit their needs at that moment

uses lots of charm and is always plausible and convincing when peers, superiors or others are present; the motive of the charm is deception and its purpose is to compensate for lack of empathy

relies on mimicry to convince others that they are a "normal" human being but their words, writing and deeds are hollow, superficial and glib
displays a great deal of certitude and self-assuredness to mask their insecurity

excels at deception

exhibits unusual inappropriate attitudes to sexual matters or sexual behaviour; underneath the charming exterior there are often suspicions or intimations of sexual harassment, sex discrimination or sexual abuse (sometimes racial prejudice as well)

exhibits much controlling behaviour and is a control freak

displays a compulsive need to criticise whilst simultaneously refusing to acknowledge, value and praise others

when called upon to share or address the needs and concerns of others, responds with impatience, irritability and aggression

often has an overwhelming, unhealthy and narcissistic need to portray themselves as a wonderful, kind, caring and compassionate person, in contrast to their behaviour and treatment of others; the bully is oblivious to the discrepancy between how they like to be seen (and believe they are seen), and how they are actually seen

has an overbearing belief in their qualities of leadership but cannot distinguish between leadership (maturity, decisiveness, assertiveness, trust and integrity) and bullying (immaturity, impulsiveness, aggression, distrust and deceitfulness)

when called to account, immediately and aggressively denies everything, then counter-attacks with distorted or fabricated criticisms and allegations; if this is insufficient, quickly feigns victimhood, often by bursting into tears (the purpose is to avoid answering the question and thus evade accountability by manipulating others through the use of guilt)

is also ... aggressive, devious, manipulative, spiteful, vengeful, doesn't listen, can't sustain mature adult conversation, lacks a conscience, shows no remorse, is drawn to power, emotionally cold and flat, humourless, joyless, ungrateful, dysfunctional, disruptive, divisive, rigid and inflexible, selfish, insincere, insecure, immature and deeply inadequate, especially in interpersonal skills

The serial bully: full profile

Spencer is clearly trying to deflect what he knows is legitimate criticism, and he's going to say anything and do anything to cover his ass. Even slander the reputation of a man that he knows is innocent.

Predictably, the knee-jerk response of his sycophants over at JW is to agree with Spencers' wild conspiracy theory and slam CJ.

Are these people really so stupid that they will allow themselves to be lied to and used? Or are they simply bullies themselves who are engaged in a mobbing excercise?

Their irrational hatred for everything LGF is so convoluted that they can't see that they're being used, manipulated and lied to by the very man that they claim to support. Pathetic.

712 Render  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:38:11am

Yeah - That's what I thought.

Sharmie - They're running away from me again.

ROLLIN
IN
HOT,
R

713 Erik The Red  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:44:36am

re: #710 guftafs

But in this case I have fallen victim to an Internet prank. Johnson's response to my joining this group was so swift that I suspect that the group itself, and its invitation that I join it, was a hoax and a setup,

[ SOFT WOMAN'S VOICE ECHOING INSIDE SPENCER'S HEAD]: Yes, Robert. It was all a setup, an elaborate fraud made for you and others like you, the great mass of individuals straddling between open support of fastists/racists and preserving a respectable front. You see, the whole world centres around you, if not all the time, then most of the time, and people like Charles Johnson, who really only are like fifth pike-bearer from the left in your life's story, have nothing better to do than to scheme against you, how to next embarrass you publicly. That's all they're really about. Anyone sane can see that. You really couldn't help it Robert, you only mean well, it wasn't your fault. Who are you to blame? You are a scholar, Robert, and an important scholar, not running the risk of turning into the token Hausjude to sinister forces as some vile people perhaps would claim, now come take my hand ...

If I had a 1000 up dings to give you would have them. WELL SAID

714 onepistoffyid  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:46:15am

re: #709 Erik The Red

Mistake or not. His response to the whole thing is wrong. He came out in full attack mode against Charles and Cato. Fuck him.

I am going to check to see if he has removed himself; do you know if he has...for me that is the acid test.

I have to admit I have read all of his books, seen him speak, and I think he does great work; I find this whole affair between Spencer and Charles very depressing.....we are making Bin Ladn very happy.

715 myself  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:52:49am

Charles,

Spencer is one of the foremost anti-Jihad spokespeople, a significant force. Your only involvement with him are these attempts to undermine his position.

Please stop and look within yourself. You are doing no service.

716 Barflytom  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:53:34am

Well Robert Spencer has the same initials as Roderick Spode, and apparently about as much of a grasp of reality.

His books on Islam seemed to me to be well researched and authoritative, but this doesn't exactly do much for his credibility does it ?

717 Irish Rose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:53:54am

re: #708 onepistoffyid

Charles:

I honestly think Spencer just made a mistake based upon his posting on Jiahdwatch; if he removes himself from that facebook group, which he absolutely should do immediately, I think everyone needs to reconsider this sad episode.

Here's the deception: it's not just one group.

There are more of them in a similar vein, and all of them joined voluntarily by a man named Robert Spencer who has a friends list that is immediately recognizable.

This was no accident.

718 guftafs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 5:56:01am

re: #713 Erik The Red

cheers

719 freetoken  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:06:06am

re: #715 myself


Please stop and look within yourself. You are doing no service.

You're posting that exhortation to the wrong person. Suggest it applies much better to the author of Jihadwatch.

720 Leonidas Hoplite  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:08:20am

I can't find him as a member of that group. I've read two of his books and liked them though he does seem alarmist (but that's what everyone thought of Churchill too). I'll have to pay closer attention to anything he writes about now.

Does anyone know if it could have been suggested he join by someone else, and he may have then joined without reading the manifesto of the group? No excuse of course but it would point more towards laziness or carelessness.

721 onepistoffyid  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:08:51am

re: #717 Irish Rose

Here's the deception: it's not just one group.

There are more of them in a similar vein, and all of them joined voluntarily by a man named Robert Spencer who has a friends list that is immediately recognizable.

This was no accident.

If he is actually joining these groups ( I really want to give him the benefit of the doubt), then I agree, he is insane. The stuff on Anatolia facebook is just insanity, its like they want to re-start the Crusades (which by the way, didn't go very well for jews either).

722 Irish Rose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:14:58am

... and Pamela Geller responds, in what is sure to be only the first in a serious of of multiple diatribes, by calling Charles a punk.

/shocka!

723 Erik The Red  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:16:52am

re: #722 Irish Rose

... and Pamela Geller responds, in what is sure to be only the first in a serious of of multiple diatribes, by calling Charles a punk.

/shocka!

RS must be boning PG. Why else would she support him?

724 freetoken  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:17:41am

re: #720 Leonidas Hoplite

.

Does anyone know if it could have been suggested he join by someone else, and he may have then joined without reading the manifesto of the group?

Well yes, if you read from the top. I had wondered if he joined (clicking the button) without actually reading.

But after Spencer posted his explanation of what happened (see on his site), I sort of lost patience with trying to give the guy more room for doubt. He is simply ungracious, and sounds bitter and a bit paranoid.

725 Irish Rose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:19:02am

re: #722 Irish Rose

... a serious of of

Lol, this is what happens when you combine sleep deprivation with too much caffiene.

Switching over to decaf...

726 Irish Rose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:21:11am

re: #723 Erik The Red

RS must be boning PG. Why else would she support him?

You're not the only one thinking it.

727 GuyFromMass  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:25:54am

The only thing Robert Spencer did wrong was just accept anyone who asked to be his friend on Facebook. I am disappointed in Charles Johnson for this post. Robert Spencer is no Aryan Nation supporter. c'mon let's be intellectually honest.

Spencer states"I was working through a number of such requests hurriedly, and joined the group without looking further at what it was all about. I didn't read any of the material the group had posted,"

Because spencer..."accept friends and join groups as a matter of course, since the whole idea seems to be to expand one's reach and get the word out about what one is doing -- in my case warning about the global jihad.

What a waste of time trying to besmirch Spencer's character. Very disappointing in Charles Johns. Unless the point was to let Spencer know the mistake he mad. But if that is the case, i would think a private e-mail would have been better thing to do.

728 Render  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:29:17am

Bill Roggio does more in one day, each and every day, to counter the actual jihadists then those self-called "anti-jihadists" have done in their entire lives - combined.

And very few of them even bother to link to Mr Roggio.

Long War Journal is not in the JW blog roll. It is in the AS blog roll, but only under its old and long defunct name, The Fourth Rail, and my guess is PG hasn't clicked on LWJ in over two years.

===

Conor - "They drink the Islam is Peace Koolaid."

No Conor, I drink the 254,000+ Iraqi soldiers and 80,000+ Afghani soldiers on our side Koolaid. I drink the thousands of Muslim translators who risk their lives for us every day Koolaid. I drink the 83% of all Israeli Druze males served in the IDF Koolaid.

I drink the Pakistani family down the street who came to our door and offered help after a tree fell very close to our house Koolaid. A family who left Pakistan to escape from the "bearded ones" as they call them.

FUCK
YOU,
R

729 Irish Rose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:30:34am

Another sleeper.
They're crawling out of the woodwork, Charles.

GuyFromMass

Karma: -1
Registered since: Dec 2, 2008 at 7:04 pm
(Logged in)

No. of comments posted: 1
No. of links posted: 0

730 Render  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:34:07am

re: #721 onepistoffyid

I've been on this since 11:30pm EST yesterday. He joined them, at least two of them.

He made a mistake. He could have gotten away with it by simply un-joining those groups and apologizing to his readers for the mistake.

His admittance of his mistake was overshadowed by his insane ravings about a deep dark conspiracy.

FUCK
HIM
TOO,
R

731 Leonidas Hoplite  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:37:22am

re: #724 freetoken

He is simply ungracious, and sounds bitter and a bit paranoid.

I agree

732 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:37:34am

re: #729 Irish Rose
Good morning Rose - yeah, it's something a lot of us noticed last night/erly this AM - they really are crawling out of the woodwork. Charles did say SOMEWHERE up thread that he was aware of what's going on.
I'm really sorry I conked out on y'all early this morning, but I just couldn't stay awake any longer.
Did you pull an "all nighter"?!

733 Render  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:37:46am

re: #715 myself

No he's not.

He's a self-promoting one-trick-pony jack-off suffering from paranoid delusions.

CALL THE
DREAM TEAM,
R

734 Irish Rose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:41:39am

re: #730 Render

I've been on this since 11:30pm EST yesterday. He joined them, at least two of them.

He made a mistake. He could have gotten away with it by simply un-joining those groups and apologizing to his readers for the mistake.

His admittance of his mistake was overshadowed by his insane ravings about a deep dark conspiracy.

FUCK
HIM
TOO,
R

Render and Sharmuta, Charles and I and several others stayed up late last night doing investigative work on this. We've been following all of this carefully since the first Facebook link was brought to Charles' attention.

It runs deep and it runs ugly.

735 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:41:44am

re: #733 Render
Hey Render! I had to leave around comment #557 cause my meds had kicked in an hour or so earlier.
Did or has Spencer said ANYTHING in reponse to this - which Charles stated unequically HAD to be Robert Spencer joning this Facebook group and not some charlatan or "hacker"- ?

736 Irish Rose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:43:09am

re: #732 realwest

Good morning Rose - yeah, it's something a lot of us noticed last night/erly this AM - they really are crawling out of the woodwork. Charles did say SOMEWHERE up thread that he was aware of what's going on.
I'm really sorry I conked out on y'all early this morning, but I just couldn't stay awake any longer.
Did you pull an "all nighter"?!

About three hours of sleep in all.
Good thing I have the day off today.

Spencers' response is absolutely predictable, don't you think?

737 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:44:42am

re: #736 Irish Rose
I probably would, but I don't know what Spencer's response WAS! What did he say - someone stole his ID and hacked Facebook or that he didn't know what the group was he was joining?

738 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:49:07am

re: #727 GuyFromMass
Do you honestly think that Robert Spencer, who's been hip-deep in all the contra-jihad conferences and all, who's been alerted to these groups before now by Charles (among others) would simply join a group without even knowing what that group stands for?! Really? That he would join a group that brands itself as the "CAMPAIGN FOR THE ‘RECONQUISTA’ IN ANATOLIA!" without giving it any thought AT ALL?

739 Irish Rose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:49:20am

From Spencer (not gonna link):

The decline of Little Green Footballs into shrill irrelevancy has been unpleasant to watch. I have just learned that Charles Johnson has put up a post entitled "Robert Spencer Joins Genocidal Facebook Group" (no link because Johnson some time ago, in a display of immaturity, barred links from this site). Tonight's attack revolves around a Facebook group called "Campaign for the Reconquest in Anatolia," which I joined while sitting in an airport today around 2:30PM. I joined Facebook altogether a few months ago and haven't spent much time with it, and accept friends and join groups as a matter of course, since the whole idea seems to be to expand one's reach and get the word out about what one is doing -- in my case warning about the global jihad.

But in this case I have fallen victim to an Internet prank. Johnson's response to my joining this group was so swift that I suspect that the group itself, and its invitation that I join it, was a hoax and a setup, but in any case I freely acknowledge my mistake: I was working through a number of such requests hurriedly, and joined the group without looking further at what it was all about. I didn't read any of the material the group had posted, which Johnson says advocates genocide and ethnic cleansing and even links to the Aryan Nations.

740 Irish Rose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:52:46am

re: #737 realwest

See my #711.

741 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:56:46am

re: #739 Irish Rose
Thanks Rose - see my #738 - Spencer's response was just totally unbelievable. That he would join a group with that title or that cause if you will without giving it much thought, EVEN IF TRUE, would lead one to the inescapable conclussion that Mr. Spencer has completely lost it. As in gone-around-the-bend lost it.
And it still doesn't explain that little cutie catch phrase about the same topic at the top of Spencer's own JihadWatch.
I can't do this any more. Spencer and Pamela and several others REFUSE TO SEE WHAT THEY ARE DOING or KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING (remember Pamela's famous quote that "After the Nazi's captured Europe, all Europeans were collaberators" which of course raised the hackles of many out here who's families fought and many died for the Resistance) and are trying their best to help these neo-nazi's out - for reasons best known to them.
Fuck them. They can't fool all the people all the time and say it's Charles' fault.
See ya on todays DT.

742 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:56:48am
743 S'latch  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 6:59:45am

Robert Spencer has Flopping Aces as a friend.

Flopping Aces has friends including John Hinderaker and Jonah Goldberg, and Walid Phares.

I have a lot of respect for John Hinderaker, Jonah Goldberg, and Walid Phares.

It seems very difficult to maintain completely pure associations on Facebook.

(I am on Facebook, too. I have no friends . . . period.)

744 Irish Rose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:00:59am

Per his usual custom, Robert gave this whole affair a simple dismissal to deflect critism and diminish the criticizer... leaving Pamela and the rest of his sycophants to do the usual dirty work of attacking Charles for him.

He's reading though... oh yes, he is.

Sorry, Spencer.
This one is NOT going to disappear.

745 guftafs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:01:07am

re: #739 Irish Rose

If the group was a hoax wouldn't it have been a good idea to make its white nationalist leanings a little more ambiguous in order to lure poor innocents like Spencer in? God it's fun watching his pathetic thrashings.

/tihi

746 impostinat0r  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:01:51am

Hi Charles.

I'm still not convinced the registeree is realy Spencer

747 ibn abu  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:02:03am

I feel like the child of anti-jihadi parents going through a bitter divorce

748 Render  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:04:15am

re: #746 impostinat0r

You mean he lied when he admited it?

DON'T
THINK
SO,
R

749 impostinat0r  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:04:53am

ok ..so it was really Spencer. At least he didnt mean it.

750 Render  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:06:07am

re: #749 impostinat0r

Didn't mean what?

AROUND
THE
BUSH,
R

751 guftafs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:06:09am

re: #748 Render

LOL

752 Irish Rose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:07:19am

re: #747 ibn abu

I feel like the child of anti-jihadi parents going through a bitter divorce

I stand (and will continue to stand) with the man who conducts his business with integrity, even in the face of some of the most vile, slanderous mobbing behaviors imaginable.

And that man is most certainly NOT Robert Spencer.

753 loggiedog  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:09:37am

Regardless of your beliefs on any issue right or left, any facebook group considered radical or outside of "one sigma" of moderacy should be avoided. Joining one can ruin an Facebook member's career. At the same time, it's probably best not to facebook your boss in any case, especially should you choose to join a radical group. Even more important-- don't make negative comments about your work or your workday or post sensitive info!

754 Colonel Panik  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:20:17am

re: #742 Iron Fist

When I hear "Reconquista" I don't think of Mohammedans in any way (positive or negative). I think of La Raza, and what they are trying to do to this country. That someone would choose this turn of phrase shows either remarkable stupidity, or willful malice.

The term goes back much farther than that Iron. The La Razans merely appropriated it. The original historical meaning refers to the Catholic reconquest of Spain from the Muslims by Ferdinand and Isabella, "Los Reyes Catolicos" in 1492.

755 ducktrapper  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:23:19am

If it was an Onion piece intended to show the ridiculous nature of Muslim reconquest campaigns, it might almost be funny. Seriously though, I'd be happy if every time "they" ask or demand something, like Spain or Palestine, be "returned" to them, it be met with a demand that the Hagia Sofia and, well, Constantinople be returned ... um ... in return.

756 Land Shark  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:25:00am

Wow, what a sick little group. About the only good thing is that they are very unlikely to get their way and reconquer Anatolia and do the things they want to do.

I'm opposed to Islamization and have always respected Spencer, but this is disturbing. Even if we take his explanation at face value he's shown some really poor judgment at best. Personally, I won't join anything unless I'm pretty sure of what it is I'm joining. I don't do Facebook or MySpace so I have little idea how they work, but me thinks Robert should get away from those slugs ASAP.

By the way, there's already a blurb at that site about Charles Johnson's "liberal" minions discovering the site. They obviously have little idea of what goes on here.

757 guftafs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:29:22am

re: #756 Land Shark

By the way, there's already a blurb at that site about Charles Johnson's "liberal" minions discovering the site. They obviously have little idea of what goes on here.

It's a question of perspective. The hard Left views this site as something close to Nazism. The fascists/racists view it as liberal.

758 TheOtherCanadian  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:31:32am

re: #213 LynnfromNZ

Completely agree. Some Facebook groups are totally ridiculous. One person, who knows that I am repulsed by Heather Mills McCartney, invited me onto a "Hire Heather Mills Hitman" group. I didn't join, but I had a good laugh. My guess is that there are very few within these groups who will ever leave their cavernous, dank basements, much less seek to re-launch the Crusades! For these types of groups to be taken seriously, they at the very least, require meeting in person in the town square. Now, THOSE people would worry me.

759 medaura18586  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:35:02am

re: #7 Charles

I have posted no opinions here. Everything in this post is documented fact.

Preempting a libel-suit threat, Charles? Spencer has gone down that road with me before...

/sigh

760 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:38:14am

re: #742 Iron Fist

No offense, but that's you. robert is a islamic scholar. "CAMPAIGN FOR THE ‘RECONQUISTA’ IN ANATOLIA!" should have, and would have had a certain historical context to him.

761 MPH  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:38:56am

I'd like to see Pam Gellar contort another justification of Spencer.

762 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:41:05am

re: #715 myself

Right- and joining a genocidal group on facebook and claiming he was punked into doing it is doing robert worlds of good. Uh-huh.

763 My 2 Cents  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:43:56am

re: #303 Charles

Everything I have posted is factual. And maybe you've missed it, but Spencer has been viciously attacking me at his blog, and at other blogs, for months now.

Charles, I have, FOR YEARS, had nothing but great respect for BOTH you and Robert Spencer. This latest accusation against him is the most serious/damaging by far. When it is finally resolved (only AFTER he has made a response), I fear that I will have less respect for one of you.

For what it is worth, it has seemed (to me) that the criticisms of Robert Spencer, as posted at LGF, are generally angrier than the criticisms of Charles posted at JihadWatch. It seems there is honest anger, and honest sadness, on both sides here.

While you two fight, the Islamists laugh.

I find the idea that Robert Spencer supports genocide to be VERY difficult to believe! Charles, you ultimately may, just may, come to regret this attack upon him. There MAY, however unlikely, yet be an explanation that has to do with some kind of hacking of computer accounts or something. You forget that Spencer is not nearly as knowledgeable about websites and computers as you; he may have been victimized, and now you may be all too willing to assume the worst.

I know you are an excellent judge of character, but even you may be wrong about this. Let us hear what Mr. Spencer has to say in his defense. And then... let the judgement be made!

764 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:45:53am

re: #730 Render

wE R in uR faCebOOk SendInG nAzi InvItEs

765 medaura18586  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:46:16am

re: #8 Sharmuta

Please see:

[Link: www.kejda.net...]

That article is so poorly written I'm embarrassed. Working as an assistant editor for Commentary has made me a better writer (theoretically, at least, since I've barely been practicing) by osmosis, just from reading and editing solid material daily. I would have written every sentence very differently today. Those anal sensitivities aside, there are a lot of details on that post that reveal Spencer's sneakiness all throughout.

I have since unearthed so much material on him and his associates, the only bottleneck to the publication of which remains my limited free time and my limited interest. I'm getting bored with Spencer. To many here his excesses come as a genuine shock though, so I am glad Charles is shining the spotlight on these putrid corners of the blogosphere.

I still believe the fact that he has for a friend, and a board member of JihadWatch, a one time defense witness for Slobodan Milosevic in his trial in Hague, remains unsurpassed in depravity. Oh, and he works for this same person's lobbying organization. It may have been him, the chauvinist Greek Jim Jatras, to give him ideas about the "reconquista" of Anatolia. Greek chauvinists are known to cream their pants over that sick fantasy.

766 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:47:20am

re: #763 My 2 Cents

Robert's been attacking Charles for MONTHS! This is the first post Charles has put up concerning robert, and it's ALL factual! Robert does not deny he joined this group, only that it was a mistake and he was PUNKED into doing it.

767 scottishbuzzsaw  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:48:12am

re: #763 My 2 Cents

Spencer has already admitted he did it, by accident...while blaming Charles for a possible set-up...

768 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:48:19am

re: #763 My 2 Cents
He has responded - geez I wish y'all would read a little bit of this thread before pulling your sleeper shit.
For your edification, see #739 above.

769 medaura18586  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:48:32am

re: #22 Kyriakos

Ever been to Greece? There are still lots of patriotic old men who nostalgically wish for the "repatriation" of Constantinople, and old posters from the 70s with similar desires. The road signs still say Κωνσταντ&# 953;νούπολι` 2;!

Even though this plan documents a sort of crude, step-by-step process of reconquest, I am willing to excuse Mr. Spencer of buying into the thing outright. Constantinople is an ideal. Greek history from Constantine to well after 1453 has centered on Constantinople, and it is still the seat of the Ecumenical Patriarch, who is virtually a hostage to the Turks and subject to all sorts of restrictions on maintaining buildings, on speech, and so forth.

Mr. Spencer is no genocidal maniac but an idealistic old man trapped in his own sense of a triumphal past, enticed by the whispers of his ancestors from Byzantium.

Uh, what did I just say? re: #765 medaura18586

770 Land Shark  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:49:06am

re: #757 guftafs

Too true. I recall some pretty deranged rants about Charles on Gates of Vienna when the questions about the various groups against Islamization and their white supremacist ties in Europe surfaced. I remember people accusing him of being a liberal and even being "pro-Islamization!" Somebody, I don't recall who, comparing Charles to Sauron, The Dark Lord from Lord Of The Rings. I don't always agree with Charles on issues but that was some bizarre, over the top stuff.

771 guftafs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:49:34am

re: #763 My 2 Cents

Let us hear what Mr. Spencer has to say in his defense. And then... let the judgement be made!

Uh, Spencer already has. See above thread. (My one cent)

772 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:50:24am

re: #746 impostinat0r

Even after Spencer posted on his own blog that he did it himself?

773 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:51:11am

I'll say it again:

Let's break this "hoax" theory down, shall we?

First- the oldest comment on that facebook site is from October 26, 2008. That's a substantially long amount of time to dedicate to pulling off a hoax to entrap just one person.

Second- this "hoax" managed to rope in over 300 other people before it got to its intended "target".

Third- the "hoax" required a facebook friend of robert's joining the group and inviting him to join.

Fourth- the "hoax" also required another one of robert's facebook friends blowing the whistle once he was invited to join.

Fifth- the "swift" reaction took 10 hours.

Sixth- the entire "hoax" depended upon robert not paying attention to what he was doing, because according to him, that is his excuse for having joined this group in the first place. Had he been paying attention he wouldn't have joined.

There you have it- a "hoax" so well planned, so dependent upon not only others but the timing of the "victim's" inability to devote attention to what he was doing, that it was a "success".

774 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:52:41am

re: #765 medaura18586

Without you having done this work previously, medaura, a number of people wouldn't have known that this is an on going issue with him. Thank you for your piece. You took a lot of crap because of it, but you were right all along.

775 guftafs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:52:55am

re: #773 Sharmuta

ka-*dish*! ;)

776 My 2 Cents  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:57:22am

re: #768 realwest

Thank you. However, these posts come very rapidly, and many appeared while I was typing (and not reading simultaneously).

Also, I am not convinced that Robert Spencer's explanation is unbelievable. Is it now a requirement to understand the details of Facebook just to evaluate the validity of arguments on LGF? Damn, do I have to become a computer scientist just to figure out if Charles' assertions are valid or if Spencers' protestations of innocence make sense? This absolutely sucks. The people on both sides seem fully credible to me. Great. So now I'll never know the truth unless I study the peculiarities of Facebook, which is something that quite frankly, I have no interest in. Like I said, this sucks.

777 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:57:29am

re: #775 guftafs

Seriously- I was out just awhile ago, and started laughing over this. It's just absurd to claim it was a hoax or set up because of point number 6 alone. This so called "hoax" was completely dependent on robert not paying attention. What are the odds of that timing? I'd say pretty slim to none. The whole notion is laughable- literally. Think about it! Truly- it's insulting to the intelligence of anyone who considers this conspiracy for more than a few minutes.

778 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:58:29am

re: #776 My 2 Cents

Robert admitted he joined, regardless of his excuse. Where in the post above is Charles not being factual?

779 guftafs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:59:53am

re: #777 Sharmuta

Amen.

780 medaura18586  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:01:35am

re: #36 jaunte

This 2002 NRO article written by Spencer said that he was an adjunct fellow with the Free Congress Foundation. Does anyone know if he is still connected?
[Link: www.nationalreview.com...]

Wikipedia: [Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Yes he is. And he had a glowing eulogy for the Jew hating fascist monster who ran it: [Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]

Look HIM up on Wikipedia. Look him up in connection to Gary North. Like I said, too much crap to bother publishing at this point.

781 DesScorp  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:02:20am

The guy said he made a mistake in joining the group, that he didn't take the time to check it out properly. Jeez, give it a rest. It's starting to look like Democratic Underground here, with various factions pointing fingers at each other and screaming about betrayal.

782 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:03:34am

re: #776 My 2 Cents

Thank you. However, these posts come very rapidly, and many appeared while I was typing (and not reading simultaneously).

Also, I am not convinced that Robert Spencer's explanation is unbelievable. Is it now a requirement to understand the details of Facebook just to evaluate the validity of arguments on LGF? Damn, do I have to become a computer scientist just to figure out if Charles' assertions are valid or if Spencers' protestations of innocence make sense? This absolutely sucks. The people on both sides seem fully credible to me. Great. So now I'll never know the truth unless I study the peculiarities of Facebook, which is something that quite frankly, I have no interest in. Like I said, this sucks.

Well, you could look at the names and insults Spencer hurled at Charles this morning. All Charles did was post what Cato had found and Charles did not call Spencer names (though many posters did). Spencer reacted by saying that LGF was descending into "shrill inrrelevancy" and compared Charles to Bozo the Clown (A Chicago icon defamed here by Spencer, since a stupid man could not have played Bozo).

783 My 2 Cents  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:06:36am

re: #778 Sharmuta

Forgive me for being so naive about Facebook, but does "joining" this thing, or even being a "member" convict him of supporting what is posted there? For example, does he have the authority (like Charles at LGF) to delete comments at that site? And even if he does, does he have the computer skills (and time) to do so? Again, not everyone is as web-savvy as Charles, or even many of the posters here.

# 773 (Sharmuta) provides helpful explanations, as do some of the other posters here, but how do I know what to believe without being an expert myself on how facebook works and how people interact with it? I've never used facebook. Oh well. I suppose I can ask my children for help with it.

The Dan Rather controversy was so much easier to understand. I've used MS Word for years (actually decades, geez!), and the explanations about typesetting and fonts were clear as a bell!

784 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:08:59am

From the overnight thread:

Sharm you got mentions at JW a bit ago a former Lizard mentioned you told him he was on a watch list.

LOL!
I just got banned at LGF for comparing LGF to Kos and the Democratic Underground. Apparently I was already on a watch list (according to Sharmutua) for linking to Jihad Watch, Atlas Shrugged and Gates of Vienna too many times.

From Thunderpig

This is a LIE- as of this moment, "thunder pig" isn't blocked from his account.

785 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:10:08am

See the update above.

786 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:11:09am

re: #784 Sharmuta

From the overnight thread:

This is a LIE- as of this moment, "thunder pig" isn't blocked from his account.

But he should be.

787 GuyFromMass  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:11:49am

I find it a joke that people think because someone has a friend on facebook or myspace that it all of a sudden makes that person a Nazi lol

I think Robert Spencer definitely exaggerated on his response that it was some kind of set up by LGF, but I'd be pretty upset too if someone on a blog of LGF's level put a post that said I supported Aryan Nations. When it is obvious from all Robert Spencer has written he doesn't feel that way.

Some Irish Rose said something to the effect another one comes out of the woodwork. Whatever! I read conservative blogs and don't try to pin me as some kind of hidden army of robert spencers. I'm just some average conservative who loves reading LGF and Jihad Watch and others and thinks Charles did the wrong thing and should just take the post down.

What is the point of it Charles? You don't even make a statement as to what your opinion is. You just leave it hanging there with no type of context. Are you saying Robert Spencer is a closet member of Aryan Nation? Don't be a wimp...state what you think!

788 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:11:59am

re: #786 Dark_Falcon

Imagine my shock that a fascist sympathizer would lie!

789 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:13:00am

re: #787 GuyFromMass

Where in the above article was it stated that robert supports genocide?

790 guftafs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:13:37am

re: #785 Charles

Another turn on the spit hanging over the Fire of Embarrassing Revelations for Mr Spencer. The agony! The shame!

791 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:15:05am

re: #628 Edouard

I am not happy to find out that he has been engaged in actively insulting our host Charles. There's absolutely nothing "cordial" about that, to use one of Spencer's favorite terms.

I'm now turning any attention that I once had for Spencer's work over to the work of Dr Andrew Bostom, who to the best of my knowledge has never come close to agreeing to anything like such a deplorable personal affiliation.

I suggest you have a look at Andrew Bostom's website.

792 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:15:08am

re: #789 Sharmuta

Shhh, Shar. Don't interrupt the troll while he's building his strawman.

/sarc

793 medaura18586  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:15:42am

re: #69 Walter L. Newton

I don't see anything about that say when Spencer joined. I would like somebody who really know facebook and the way these pages come and go, confirm if it could happen the way I stated or not.

It should be a yes or no answer.

No, it doesn't work that way. Anyone with a facebook account can see who someone's facebook friends are. The person owning the account under Spencer's name, who has joined the Reconquista group, is friends with a lot of people, many of whom are bloggers you would recognize, including Pamela Geller. [Link: www.facebook.com...]

Get a facebook account and scroll down the list. Was Pam also duped into mistakingly adding an impostor claiming to be Robert Spencer as her friend? Not a chance. He would have corrected her. He would have sued Facebook by now, if anyone had pulled such a prank on him. Robert is the Beetlejuice of the internet. Whenever his name is invoked more than a couple of times, he just magically appears to hold his own. He must compulsively check the Google alerts for his name.

There is no way this is anyone else but the one and only.

794 scottishbuzzsaw  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:16:25am

re: #791 Charles

I suggest you have a look at Andrew Bostom's website.

He did...and was shocked.

795 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:16:34am

re: #790 guftafs

Another turn on the spit hanging over the Fire of Embarrassing Revelations for Mr Spencer. The agony! The shame!

How long do you think before he is cooked? The lizard army is waiting for his Gamey Buttocks to be served. :)

796 MPH  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:18:47am

I think it is hard for many of us to conceive of just how dirty and sick and alive European nationalism remains today. Such ethnic hatred really is foreign to American culture and perhaps the lack of understanding of such makes its easier for Americans concerned with radical islam to be sucked down this sewer pipe.

Obsession with military might is also extremely foreign to most Americans.

"Christian Orthodox Alliance"

"What Turkey,Albania and Fyrom fear the most!"

"Orthodox Power"

"Macedonia is Greece"

Strange obsessions with ethnic origins of historical figures such as Alexander the Great:

797 guftafs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:19:16am

re: #795 Dark_Falcon

Let him roast a while longer ;) Judging by past behaviour he'll won't let go of his precious fabrications.

798 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:20:40am

re: #797 guftafs

Let him roast a while longer ;) Judging by past behaviour he'll won't let go of his precious fabrications.

Works for me. I like my roast jerk well done anyway. :)

799 NelsFree  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:20:40am

I would like to insert some historical perspective on the issue.

[Link: www.hellenicgenocide.org...]

And so I have.

800 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:21:52am

re: #785 Charles

I wonder if he's going to excuse his own writing as a prank you played on him. It's very obvious that it's a cause he's sympathetic to.

801 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:21:56am

re: #776 My 2 Cents
PLease read Sharmuta's #773 and then PLEASE READ OTHER, MORE INFORMED FOLKS OPINONS BEFORE COMMENTING AGAIN.

802 My 2 Cents  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:21:56am

re: #785 Charles

Charles, can you be specific here? Do you consider the posting of the item you linked to in your update to be an example of unacceptable hatred or genocidal intent? I don't see that in it.

Also, if Robert Spencer is such a hatefilled genocidal person, how come the actual essays on his site (at least those I have seen) don't seem to reflect that? Instead, it would seem to be purely his associations that bother you. I'm not saying that such associations are acceptable. But let's put some perspective on this. Our current POTUS is definitely asociated with terorrists (Bill Ayers, Bernadine Dohrne, etc). I find that reprehensible. and Bill Clinton had Arafat at the white house a million times, and that was reprehensible too. So from that perspective, can we agree (at a minimum) that Robert Spencer is light years more decent than either Barack Obama or Bill Clinton? [yes, yes, I know that isn't setting the bar very high...]

803 guftafs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:24:51am

re: #800 Killgore Trout

I wonder if he's going to excuse his own writing as a prank you played on him. It's very obvious that it's a cause he's sympathetic to.

No, no, no! Someone must have read the article and then created the fb group. It all fits, it all fits!

/staring wildly

804 Cimbrian  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:25:08am

The fight against radical Islam will only ever have a chance of succeeding if it becomes mainstream. Not just mainstream in the Western world, but more importantly in the Muslim world as well. Associating oneself with such groups, either wittingly or through ignorance, is a highly counterproductive act.

Robert Spencer has done a lot of good work and I was skeptical of this story at first, but now I'm instead disappointed in his insincere apology and those childish and absurd claims of being the victim of a hoax.

Some have suggested that maybe an email to Spencer to clarify the matter would have been more a appropriate course of action, but would the same courtesy be granted if a well-known liberal writer joined an Islamic Facebook group that had the goals of reconquering Andalucia and expelling the Spaniards from the land.

805 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:26:31am

re: #781 DesScorp Geez,

Karma: -5
Registered since: Jun 25, 2007 at 8:14 am
(Logged in)

No. of comments posted: 18
No. of links posted: 0


Charles I hope you're deleting some of these sleeper accounts!

806 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:26:46am

'GuyFromMass' was formerly known here as 'Highrise'. Now blocked again.

807 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:27:06am

re: #776 My 2 Cents

What about Spencer's paranoidally delusional speculation that it's a vast scaled-wing conspiracy to get him?

808 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:30:12am

re: #802 My 2 Cents

No, we cannot. Despite all the vile things Jeremiah Wright said, Barack Obama has never been part of any group that advocated genocide, nor has Bill Clinton. They both have associated with bad people but neither of them has ever said or done anything to indicate a desire for conquest and murder, as Spencer has. No, sad to say, I must say that Barack Obama and Bill Clinton are better men than Robert Spencer. I hate to say that, but it is what the evidence shows.

809 daveycrockett  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:30:34am

re: #133 zionismrules

agreed.

810 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:35:23am

Spencer sez....

I didn't read any of the material the group had posted, which Johnson says advocates genocide and ethnic cleansing and even links to the Aryan Nations.

He's treating the racist nature of the group as hearsay. It's a stone cold fact.

811 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:36:16am

re: #809 daveycrockett

agreed.

"Davy, Davy Crockett, king of the no-think trolls!"

GAZE

812 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:36:34am

The spy is really revealing.

813 NelsFree  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:36:50am

From Wikipedia, article on the 1922 Destruction of the city of Smyrna (now called Izmir, Turkey):

Rudolph J. Rummel blames the Turkish side for the "systematic firing" in the Armenian and Greek quarters of the city. Rummel also argues that after the Turks recaptured the city, Turkish soldiers and Muslim mobs shot and hacked to death Armenians, Greeks, and other Christians in the streets of the city; he estimates the victims of these massacres, by giving reference to the previous claims of Marjorie Housepian Dobkin, at about 100,000 Christians.[4]

The New York Times in an article published on the 18th of September 1922 titled "Smyrna's ravagers fired on Americans" document the relentless destruction of the Christian quarters of the city and the massacre of its Christian population by the Turkish army.[5] The article gives special emphasis to the attacks against American soldiers and volunteers when they tried to help Armenians and Greeks while they were being attacked.

814 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:36:58am

And by the way, 'Highrise' registered about 10 sockpuppets. There may be more.

815 ToddHerman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:39:36am

Charles-

If this is true, it's beyond vile. The man will have lost all credibility.

I will tell you though, that its is very easy to set up a fake Facebook account. I have done so as an experiment; I maintained page for several months and Facebook never did anything about it. It was the page of a VERY public person.

I assume, though, that you have -as usual- thoroughly investigated and believe your report.

Thanks.

816 guftafs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:39:36am

re: #810 Killgore Trout

Spencer sez....

He's treating the racist nature of the group as hearsay. It's a stone cold fact.

... and it's an elaborate hoax that he didn't have time to look at the content anyway. So, He was fooled by content he didn't have time to look at? Nice try, Bobby but you're making it all too complicated for yourself. Give it up, you're in a losing position here.

817 HelloDare  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:39:54am

I don't know how Facebook works. Is there a record of who invites you to join a group? Anybody know?

818 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:40:16am

re: #814 Charles

Unfuckingbelievable. After swearing to me privately she would never come back to this site....

819 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:40:38am

re: #815 ToddHerman

Charles-

If this is true, it's beyond vile. The man will have lost all credibility.

I will tell you though, that its is very easy to set up a fake Facebook account. I have done so as an experiment; I maintained page for several months and Facebook never did anything about it. It was the page of a VERY public person.

I assume, though, that you have -as usual- thoroughly investigated and believe your report.

Thanks.

It is true. The Facebook group is not a fake, and Spencer has admitted he joined it. Then he tried to say I set it up myself.

820 scottishbuzzsaw  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:41:35am

re: #814 Charles

And by the way, 'Highrise' registered about 10 sockpuppets. There may be more.

Fraud and deceit...wonderful qualities to have in one's defenders./

821 Land Shark  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:41:45am

re: #673 Sharmuta

That to me is the most disturbing thing about this situation. It's one thing to join a group "by mistake" or "not paying attention" or whatever. But to come up with this conspiracy theory thing about being hoaxed into it, let's just say it does little for his credibility on this matter.

"The devil (Charles Johnson) made me do it!" Jeez, man...

822 Aye Pod  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:42:58am

re: #659 Tigger2005

Robert, the very fact that you even consider the possibility that Charles set up a fake FaceBook page and invited you to join it in order to (further) discredit you, which is what you're clearly implying, speaks volumes about your fragility of mind. Get a grip, man.

I think he knows that didn't happen, but he also knows a lot of his supporters are dumb enough to buy his suggestion that he did.

823 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:44:47am

re: #820 scottishbuzzsaw

Fraud and deceit...wonderful qualities to have in one's defenders./

Good to see you, SB. That's a good line, and it is well placed against Spencer.

824 guftafs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:45:31am

re: #822 Jimmah

I think he knows that didn't happen, but he also knows a lot of his supporters are dumb enough to buy his suggestion that he did.

Problem with that kind of approach is one day you're really going to need help from your allies and "friends" only then you'll find yourself surrounded by idiots and worse. Good luck, Spencer. You'll need it.

825 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:46:10am

re: #822 Jimmah

I think he knows that didn't happen, but he also knows a lot of his supporters are dumb enough to buy his suggestion that he did.

I fully expected this reaction from Spencer.

And I'll just say one thing: if I had accidentally joined a vile group like this, on Facebook or elsewhere, I would simply apologize for it and admit to a mistake. I would not try to claim that I was set up and tricked, by people who are out to get me.

826 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:46:52am

re: #818 Sharmuta

Unfuckingbelievable. After swearing to me privately she would never come back to this site....

Like you said, Sharm:

re: #788 Sharmuta

Imagine my shock that a fascist sympathizer would lie!

827 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:47:29am
828 scottishbuzzsaw  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:48:21am

re: #823 Dark_Falcon

Good to see you, SB. That's a good line, and it is well placed against Spencer.

Good to see you, too, DF...

829 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:48:27am

re: #825 Charles

I fully expected this reaction from Spencer.

And I'll just say one thing: if I had accidentally joined a vile group like this, on Facebook or elsewhere, I would simply apologize for it and admit to a mistake. I would not try to claim that I was set up and tricked, by people who are out to get me.

"Innocence seldom utters outraged shrieks."

- Whittaker Chambers

830 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:48:34am

re: #826 Dark_Falcon

That's actually what makes it a little more shocking to me. She supported Charles in the fascist fight early on. She has hurt feelings, so I think that's why she said what she did this morning.

831 Aye Pod  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:49:24am

re: #821 Land Shark

"And the next thing I knew, I was standing there in the middle of the street, in full nazi regalia. Completely innocent of course - could have happened to anyone-. These men's outfitting shops- you know how it is"

832 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:49:46am
833 NelsFree  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:51:19am

H'm. Guess I'll go mow the back yard. Hapax Legomenon to you all.

Hapax Legomenon.

834 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:52:30am

Can I have my own sock puppet? My sock puppet could get on and make a statement like "Honey and carob cookies are just as good as the real thing," and then I could just rip my sock puppet apart.

No?

*sniffles*

Seriously, who you choose to hang out with is important. What you put your name on is important. I'm much more careful than I once was.

835 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:54:25am

re: #832 Iron Fist

Wonder if she crapped herself when I confronted her up thread on her strawman.

836 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:54:44am

'No Dhummi', after making excuses all night, is now going through this thread and dinging up the other excuse makers.

837 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:55:32am

But not any more.

838 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:57:58am

re: #837 Charles

But not any more.

Can we call that a fascist meltdown?

839 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:00:52am

I got busted looking at dwarf pr0n at work, and was fired.

ZOMG! CHARLES SET ME UP!
////

pathetic

840 jaunte  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:00:56am

"A reputation once broken may possibly be repaired, but the world will always keep their eyes on the spot where the crack was."
-- Joseph Hall

841 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:01:49am

Dhimmi Watch still has a "free Constantinople" up. I expect that to disappear soon.

842 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:03:45am

re: #835 Sharmuta

Hey Sharm, Can you feel the love they have for you over at JW?

The fact that brownshirts like Sharmuta stare at a "watch list" all day long for people to ban like a KGB agent sniffing out dissidents is pathetic and strange. You rarely see that kind of chronic self-consciousness outside of drug addicts or psychotics.

Ending with this.

Rev. Jim Jones had nothing on the Queen Lizard.

843 Caboose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:03:49am

Did the group proposing all this kinda forget about the Turkish military? When I lived in Ankara in the '70's (Dad was USAF), I got to see these guys up close and personal. They were (and still are) for their size a force to be reckoned with. As part of the UN Peacekeeping Force in Korea in the '50's, they had the reputation of being devils on the battlefield. I really think that these nazi punk wannabe stormtroopers will get their pasty white asses handed to them on a beautifully handmade brass plate along with a steaming hot glass of chai within seconds of encountering the Turkish military. I think taking on Iran would be easier than the Turks.

(During the student unrest in the early '70's, I remember watching THK UH-1Ds making low passes over the university that we could see from our high-school campus. Found out later that they were using the down-draft from the Huey's to blow dissidents off the roofs of the university. I don't remember if there were any fatalities, but these were at least two-story buildings.)

I'd REALLY like to see these guys f*ck with the Turkish military. It would be... entertaining.

844 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:04:18am

Front Page posted Spencer's anti-LGF rant overnight. Is Frontpage still on the LGF blogroll?

845 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:07:16am

Charles, When you get a chance you should probably think about removing FrontPage and Dhimmi Watch from the "News/opinion". I'd also suggest getting rid of Debka (But that's just me).

846 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:08:12am

re: #842 Bubblehead II

No- I'm not looking at that thread over there. And there is no "watch list", it's called a long memory. Also- Thunder Pig was lying at that time.

847 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:08:21am

re: #845 Killgore Trout

Jihad Watch is still listed too.

848 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:09:37am

Not any more.

849 Lynn B.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:09:56am

re: #636 Sharmuta

IIRC, Daniel Pipes was given a less than warm welcome at counter-jihad conference in Israel late last year. Because he was a voice of moderation, he wasn't really what they wanted to hear. I think he's a safe bet at least for now.

Late to this thread but it's an interesting coincidence. I was just about to ask (before I saw this thread) if anyone here has Pipes' ear. Because although he (Pipes) has, to the best of my knowledge, indeed continued to be voice of moderation, Spencer is still a prominent contributor to the Middle East Quarterly and just yesterday I saw that the Middle East Forum is sponsoring yet another speech by Spencer in Philadelphia on March 9 (a repeat of this one he gave in NY in January). I just wonder if Dr. Pipes is aware of Spencer's alliances.

850 Edouard  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:12:06am

re: #791 Charles

I suggest you have a look at Andrew Bostom's website.

Thank you, Charles. Yes, I did immediately go to his website after I made my initial post, which is why I quickly subsequently posted #634. I was floored by the disgracefulness of Bostom's attack.

#634 has a link to Bostom's site with evidence of this very unbecoming attack by him and his commenters. Such a thing should be beneath the dignity level of a writer such as Andrew Bostom.

I am sadly learning lessons about the need to vet someone's personal character before vouching for their books. I am sorry that these jackals are turning on you when they need to be looking with very bright lights at themselves in the mirror.

851 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:12:31am

re: #845 Killgore Trout

Charles, When you get a chance you should probably think about removing FrontPage and Dhimmi Watch from the "News/opinion". I'd also suggest getting rid of Debka (But that's just me).

Frontpage has some good stuff still there. That said, if David Horowitz doesn't dump Spencer, his site will get dumped off my bookmarks list.

852 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:13:20am

re: #849 Lynn B.

I think quite a few people are unaware of them.

853 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:15:26am

re: #850 Edouard

Thank you, Charles. Yes, I did immediately go to his website after I made my initial post, which is why I quickly subsequently posted #634. I was floored by the disgracefulness of Bostom's attack.

#634 has a link to Bostom's site with evidence of this very unbecoming attack by him and his commenters. Such a thing should be beneath the dignity level of a writer such as Andrew Bostom.

I am sadly learning lessons about the need to vet someone's personal character before vouching for their books. I am sorry that these jackals are turning on you when they need to be looking with very bright lights at themselves in the mirror.

If you think that's bad, you should see the emails he sent me before I told him to stop.

854 mean Gene  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:18:17am

A few quick questions for Charles or Stinky:
Will links to JihadWatch/DhimmiWatch still be allowed here?
On the threads?
In the Spin Off Links?
Or is his hard work all tainted beyond all redemption by this facebook (what IS ''facebook?" Is it like all of those "Digg'' things?) entry?

855 Aye Pod  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:19:03am

One thing Spencer did not do was fall victim to a prank. If he fell victim to anything it was his own appaling judgment in joining a fascist group whose nature is obvious just from their name alone.

But we know about his dalliances with other euro-fascists, and his sympathy for the overall stance of this particular group. He joined a bunch of overt fascists thinking that they were covert fascists, and got caught out.

856 Born_to_lose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:21:53am

Honestly, I think Robert Spencer IS a little clueless on how the Facebook thing works. Someone mentioned above, and it is so true, that Robert DOES NOT, and never has, advocate(d) genocidal and/or racial hate. If anything, he is trying to sprak initiatives that thwart that kind of behavior, and violence that stems from those outlooks. Anyway, back to my original point - First, my impression is that he is a pretty busy dude. I buy, I absolutely buy that someone who was on his friend's list invited him, he accepted and then kept moving along through his Facebook emails/invites/whatever else. And, the reason I say he MAY not be so sharp with the Facebook thing is because, well, it took Jihad Watch FOREVER to switch from Type Pad (their commenting host), which was fucking up daily and routinely, to Intensedebate, and Robert has even casually mentioned before that he is no Scholar of the 'puter. So, yeah, I actually buy his explaination of being careless and slightly computer illiterate.

Robert Spencer has GOOD intentions. The fact that it seems like a lot of folks here are just SO damn quick to pull the trigger on him is rather embarassing and infantile. Robert Spencer has stated OVER and OVER and OVER again that he does not advocate, again, racial supremacism/fascism.

I understand the idea behind questioning everything, and keeping those that we turn to for answers "in check". But really, this is getting out of control. Charles, he and the posters there may have said hurtful things about you in the midst of this mess, but you, and a lot of the other posters around this site are certainly no saints and are clearly making a strong attempt at defaming him AND discrediting his work. This behavior is truly shameful and it is too bad that it cannot be hammered out in a cohearant and adult-like fashion.

857 hazzyday  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:21:58am

re: #787 GuyFromMass

A fairweather troll.

858 medaura18586  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:23:55am

re: #228 ggt

What term then?

....Liberal....

Pure and simple.

859 Aye Pod  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:27:16am

re: #856 Born_to_lose


Anyway, back to my original point - First, my impression is that he is a pretty busy dude.

Too busy to process the words" ‘RECONQUISTA’ IN ANATOLIA!" but not too busy to click "join this group". Yeah, sure.

860 Only The Lurker Knows  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:28:58am

re: #846 Sharmuta

Not really following the thread over there, just doing a sweep to see what the apologists camps were/are saying. Surprised that SN hasn't posted anything yet over at his blog. Heading over to GoV now to see what is going on.

bbiaw

Pulling hip waders on.

861 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:29:55am

re: #856 Born_to_lose

Right- he has great intentions every time he smears Charles.

862 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:30:19am

re: #856 Born_to_lose

Your name is fitting to your personality, good choice. I have a bridge for sale, are you interested?

863 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:31:08am

re: #856 Born_to_lose


Honestly, I think Robert Spencer IS a little clueless on how the Facebook thing works. Someone mentioned above, and it is so true, that Robert DOES NOT, and never has, advocate(d) genocidal and/or racial hate.

Bullshit. He was written before about the "liberation of Constantinople" (see the update on this thread), his other blog, Dhimmi Watch has a "free Constantinople" banner on the left side bar. This is clear a cause he supports. He has also decided to align with racist/neo-fascist groups like Vlaams Belang. He's also part of a pro-Serbian group that served as a character witness at Melosivich's genocide/war crimes trial. There is overwhelming evidence that the man has radical ethnic nationalist sypmathies.

864 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:32:51am

re: #856 Born_to_lose

Charles, he and the posters there may have said hurtful things about you in the midst of this mess, but you, and a lot of the other posters around this site are certainly no saints and are clearly making a strong attempt at defaming him AND discrediting his work. This behavior is truly shameful and it is too bad that it cannot be hammered out in a cohearant and adult-like fashion.

Bullshit. I have not posted ONE front page article on my decision not to be involved with Robert Spencer. Not one. Spencer has posted at least a dozen ugly personal attacks, and even posts comments on deranged anti-LGF stalker sites.

You're either not very observant, or you're trying to minimize his responsibility.

865 Born_to_lose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:33:53am

re: #862 Thanos

Wow, clearly your intent was to emphasize my point about the folks here not being saints, either. I am no troll. I have been a member for almost a year and was a reader long before that, I have relatively good Karma points (I think) and have established good exchanges between some people here (In fact, as I recall, Sharmuta updinged me the other day). So, could you kindly NOT resort to name calling? Thanks!

866 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:35:12am

re: #855 Jimmah

One thing Spencer did not do was fall victim to a prank. If he fell victim to anything it was his own appaling judgment in joining a fascist group whose nature is obvious just from their name alone.

And if he had simply posted an apology and withdrawn his name from that group, I'd acknowledge it and drop it.

Instead, he ranted about being set up, and suggested that I had done it on purpose to get him.

That's simply crappy, paranoid behavior, and very revealing.

867 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:35:33am

re: #865 Born_to_lose

No, I'm trying to point out that people who are overly gullible might be born to lose. e.g. There are folks in Vegas who know the exact probabilities of every sucker bet there is, but they still take them.

868 ozemc  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:35:43am

Just so you know, your screen capture shows a "George McCallum" as a friend. He has since left the group. He did not realize how extreme it was. I know him personally.

869 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:35:46am

re: #865 Born_to_lose

And you could not be more wrong than you are this morning.

Please go up thread and read my #595.

870 Born_to_lose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:35:48am

re: #863 Killgore Trout

Yes, I have seen that banner there. And?

871 Aye Pod  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:35:58am

re: #861 Sharmuta

Sharm, remember there's really no such thing as a Euro-fascist element to the anti-jihad movement - it's all just a series of coincidences and accidents. The Odin's crosses, the copies of Mein Kampf, the running into Le Pen down the pub of an afternoon and someone being there to photograph it, being a member of a group of serbian ethnic cleansing bastards, joining a group that advocates genocide in turkey...all just a series of mishaps and slips that some people seem to read things into /

872 Cato the Elder  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:37:49am

Very early this morning, I had the following email exchange with Spencer on Facebook:


Cato to Spencer, today at 1:24am: As you will soon be aware, I have posted a comment about your membership in the vile "Anatolia" group on LGF. The matter has now become a thread of its own. Upon consideration, I could not credit the notion that you might have joined as a joke or without reading the group's goals and proposed methods. Even if by some chance you did so, it shows such a serious lack of judgment in your capacity as a public intellectual of no mean standing that it deserves general notice for that reason alone.

You are free react however you please; however, given the violent rhetoric of some of the people with whom you have chosen to associate yourself, I would request as one human being to another that you identify me only by my pen name, "Cato the Elder", and refrain from publicly divulging my real identity lest some deranged individual should decide to, shall we say, go to extremes. As someone whose own security is threatened by fanatics, you will surely appreciate the reasons for this request.

I trust I can rely on you for that. If not, I will make your exposure of my identity a matter of public record, if only to safeguard myself.


Spencer to Cato, today at 3:51am:

Cato:

Shame on you.


Cato to Spencer, today at 3:56am:

If that's all you have to say for yourself, sir, then you are a paltry soul indeed.


Spencer to Cato, today at 3:58am:

Cato:

I made a mistake. I will acknowledge that publicly. I did not read a syllable of what this group stands for. For you to go to Charles with this before hearing from me indicates the contents of your own soul -- I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. I will be making a public statement.


Cato to Spencer, today at 4:24am:

Mr Spencer,

I find the notion that someone in your position would join a group with the name "CAMPAIGN FOR THE ‘RECONQUISTA’ IN ANATOLIA!" without at least glancing at their program to be all but inconceivable. Of course I cannot prove you didn't do exactly that. But even if that were the case, your willingness to lend your name to any group that vaguely sounds like it might be in line with your goals without thoroughly vetting it first says a lot about how you run your operation. Long-running associations with the clearly deranged likes of "Gates of Vienna" and "Atlas Shrugs" do not improve the picture.

I studiously remained neutral in the dispute between Charles Johnson and yourself, wanting to give you the greatest possible benefit of the doubt, in honor of the signal work you have performed in bringing jihad and dhimmitude to the attention of a larger audience. But your carelessness in picking your associates has made it hard to quote your work without having their odious opinions thrown back in one's face. Of course you can say you don't share those opinions, but your continued connections with such individuals gives easy ammunition to anyone who would dismiss the anti-jihad movement as tainted by flaming bigots. This is your doing, not mine. It goes much further back than this incident. And I could not in good conscience cover it up. If I were a public intellectual and signed a petition without reading it first (and joining a group on Facebook is the new equivalent to signing an old-fashioned list), I would have to take the resulting flak, whether or not I made a mistake.

Personally, I wish you Godspeed. Politically, I can no longer support your work. You have stained it by association.

[cont.]

873 Cato the Elder  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:38:05am

[cont.]

Spencer to Cato, today at 4:29am:

It's clear that you have made up your mind long before this incident. If you think the "evidence" Johnson has brought forward of the "neofascism" of the groups he dislikes is compelling, your judgment is already seriously impaired. I am glad you do not support my work, as I want no support from such as yourself.

I have been utterly clear in rejecting white supremacism, fascism, neo-Nazism, the Aryan Nations, etc. That you would take this and run with this is evidence of a character of mind worthy of Julius Streicher. You will have to live with that.


Cato to Spencer, today at 4:41am:

Your evocation of the Nazi propagandist is ironic, given that some of the people you link to have called for treatment of Muslims similar to that which Streicher prescribed for the Jews.

You will have to live with that.

874 Born_to_lose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:38:37am

re: #864 Charles

No, no, but you have posted Front page articles, AND contributed in threads about him, concerning this wild accusation that he falls in line with fascists and their supremacist beliefs. Or, in other words, you've posted, on the front page, "articles" about fascist groups, ALWAYS refering to, if not directly, indirectly, to Robert Spencer as a sympathizer, in turn trying to disqualify everything he's done and stands for.

875 deesine  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:39:03am

Too bad to see Charles AND Robert have acted less than stellar in their dealings with each other -- I respect them both.

-

876 medaura18586  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:39:11am

re: #263 William_Ryan

I'm a big fan of this site but I don't agree with the Spencer is evil stuff.

With all the Spam and stuff you get on Facebook from 'Friends', it's easy for someone to join a group without knowing much about it.

Facebook lets you essentially spam groups of your friends and I get several Group requests every day, many from people I only know tangentially. When i first joined Facebook - I used to just approve everything - until I got burned with it.

Someone like Spencer probably gets a ton of these every day and it'd be very easy to just approve it based on just trusting an acquaintence.

Additionally, it's very possible that someone else helps manage Spencer's FB account - I know it's very common for high profile people on twitter for instance, to have someone handle the account for them

If Spencer stays in this group then I'll be the first to agree that it's unsavory to say the least - but I'm not going to throw stones when I (and a lot of people I know on FB have done the same thing, especially when they are still new to it).

The name of this group is self-explanatory: "Campaign for the 'Reconquista' in Anatolia!" It might not ring many bells to the average American, but to someone so attuned to the history and affairs of Byzantium and of Melkite Greek heritage like Spencer, the meaning would be crystal clear.

Yes, there are lots of spammy groups on Facebook, which is why no sane person concerned with one's reputation should join them all. Cato the Elder, if RS is still on your friends list, can you tell us how many other groups has he joined? If he indiscriminately joins everything hurled at him (his excuse on his website as of now), he must be a member of literally thousands of groups by now.

Also, to even be invited in this group, for anything to believe that you MIGHT be sympathetic to this "cause" enough to elicit an invitation, speaks volumes by itself. I get spammy invitations too, but never have any of them involved fantasies of genocide.

877 Born_to_lose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:39:46am

re: #867 Thanos

Or in other words, still making an attempt at an insult. Piss off.

878 medaura18586  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:40:21am

re: #876 medaura18586

correction:

Also, to even be invited in this group, for anyone to believe that you MIGHT be sympathetic to this "cause" enough to elicit an invitation, speaks volumes by itself.

879 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:40:50am

re: #871 Jimmah

Sharm, remember there's really no such thing as a Euro-fascist element to the anti-jihad movement - it's all just a series of coincidences and accidents. The Odin's crosses, the copies of Mein Kampf, the running into Le Pen down the pub of an afternoon and someone being there to photograph it, being a member of a group of serbian ethnic cleansing bastards, joining a group that advocates genocide in turkey...all just a series of mishaps and slips that some people seem to read things into /

And it's all an elaborate set up to boot by an all powerful hippy.

880 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:41:27am

re: #870 Born_to_lose

Yes, I have seen that banner there. And?

he didn't join that facebook group out of ignorance or naivete. It's a cause that he supports. His only mistake is that he didn't know other people would find out about it. It probably didn't even occur to him that people might find it objectionable.

881 jaunte  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:41:33am

re: #875 deesine

Too bad to see Charles AND Robert have acted less than stellar in their dealings with each other -- I respect them both.

-

I'm not seeing a mutual fault in operation here. What are you seeing?

882 Born_to_lose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:41:53am

re: #868 ozemc

I guess mistakes cannot be made by Robert Spencer, or at least in the eyes of the vast majority 'round these parts...

883 guftafs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:42:05am

re: #856 Born_to_lose

Someone mentioned above, and it is so true, that Robert DOES NOT, and never has, advocate(d) genocidal and/or racial hate.

Why is this relevant? Neither would an apartheid supporter or a Southerner pre-civil rights movement.

Robert Spencer has stated OVER and OVER and OVER again that he does not advocate, again, racial supremacism/fascism.

Yes, he has. But his argument is that it's primarily a question of tactics, that it would harm the struggle against jihad at this point. He did not reject racism, rather he suggested support for that viewpoint.

... you, and a lot of the other posters around this site are certainly no saints and are clearly making a strong attempt at defaming him AND discrediting his work. This behavior is truly shameful and it is too bad that it cannot be hammered out in a cohearant and adult-like fashion.

haha

He does that to himself much better than any of us could.

884 Aye Pod  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:42:39am

re: #866 Charles

Yep. It says a lot that he would just pluck an accusation like that out of thin air. I see he's also talking very disparagingly about Cato the Elder, whom I think was if anything too polite in his email asking for an explanation/clarification of his decision to join this group. Everyone who draws attention to anything that shows his true colours is a 'liar' of course.

885 Bosch Fawstin  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:43:01am

Charles,

Robert is going on the presumption that you're in the habit of bad mouthing him, and from what little I've gleaned from your break with him, I think he's right. This post comes off as if you couldn't wait to post it, without due consideration as to what it actually means. I know some facebook friends who accept any and every friendship request. While I myself don't do that, if one isn't careful, one is bound to be 'friends' with enemies. Robert Spencer is fighting the good fight, and the flak he gets from jihadists and their friends should be enough, without getting cheap shots from those who are on the side of the good.

886 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:43:12am

re: #877 Born_to_lose

I still have that bridge for sale, interested?

887 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:43:45am

God Bless you, Cato. An eloquently stated exchange on your part.

888 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:44:46am

re: #885 Bosch Fawstin

Show one, just one front page post Charles has put up "badmouthing" robert before this one.

889 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:45:43am

re: #872 Cato the Elder

For you to go to Charles with this before hearing from me indicates the contents of your own soul -- I wouldn't want to be in your shoes. I will be making a public statement.


That sounds a little threatening.

890 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:45:45am

re: #882 Born_to_lose

Did you read my #595?

891 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:47:40am

re: #885 Bosch Fawstin

What about these facts do you consider "cheap shots"?

892 medaura18586  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:47:50am

re: #290 William_Ryan

With all the stuff that flies around Facebook, this could easily be something Spencer did as an oversight. It's so easy to just do a blanket approval to groups or friends when you get tons of them a day and it's a lot easier for me to believe he did a blanket approval than to believe he read all of that, understood what the group was all about, and publicly joined it with full knowledge of what it was about.

So the group might go away and/or he might quit the group and it signify nothing more than him realizing he made a mistake.

Are you seriously convinced that intentionality is an easier explanation to believe than mistaken Facebook account management? I'm not.

A cursory glance at the group's name would suffice to raise his eyebrows. He didn't even have to follow the link to read the details of their noxious plan. The name speaks for itself.

Plus, as has been shown in another post, he has written about this issue already on his blog. Case closed (already!).

893 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:48:49am

re: #888 Sharmuta

Show one, just one front page post Charles has put up "badmouthing" robert before this one.

And this isn't badmouthing- this article is nothing but a statement of fact, and one that robert didn't deny. He in fact confirmed he joined this group, then stated it was a mistake because he was duped by a hoax.

894 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:53:19am

re: #885 Bosch Fawstin

Personally I think some are milking "the good fight" for all it is worth. Robert knows his sales demographic, and he's catering to them. Some get carried away by their passions, some get carried away by attention, and others get carried away by the money. Which is it with Spencer?

895 Aye Pod  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:53:54am

re: #889 Killgore Trout

On judgement day, God will punish those who insult Robert Spencer! He's deranged.

896 Bosch Fawstin  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:57:57am

Sharmuta,

And I believe Robert. But this idea that Robert Spencer would actually, knowingly join a genocidal group shows desperation on those who want to believe it. Everything about Robert's work belies this, and I admit I have not followed this rift thoroughly, but I did remember that Charles accused Robert of embracing neo-Nazis, which is out of line and has no credence in reality, but only through a veneer of guilt through association at a conference if I recall.

897 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:00:28am

re: #896 Bosch Fawstin

....I admit I have not followed this rift thoroughly, but I did remember that Charles accused Robert of embracing neo-Nazis, which is out of line and has no credence in reality, but only through a veneer of guilt through association at a conference if I recall.

Maybe you should read up on it.

898 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:00:29am

re: #896 Bosch Fawstin

Sharmuta,

And I believe Robert. But this idea that Robert Spencer would actually, knowingly join a genocidal group shows desperation on those who want to believe it. Everything about Robert's work belies this, and I admit I have not followed this rift thoroughly, but I did remember that Charles accused Robert of embracing neo-Nazis, which is out of line and has no credence in reality, but only through a veneer of guilt through association at a conference if I recall.

Spencer is absolutely denying the fascist links of the Vlaams Belang. From Cato the Elder's post above:

If you think the "evidence" Johnson has brought forward of the "neofascism" of the groups he dislikes is compelling, your judgment is already seriously impaired.

You're being played.

899 Cato the Elder  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:00:29am

And by the way, Spencer is still a member of the second innocent little group he joined yesterday.

"Citizens' Declaration of Threat & Plea for Relief", a more innocuous-looking affair carefully couched in reasonable-sounding language, but still ominous and blatantly anti-Muslim (not just anti-Islamo-Fascist) demands, to pick just two items:

4. That foreign aid to Islamic nations cease and aid to nations influenced by Islam be severely curtailed, except to resist jihad.

Presumably this would include Israel, since with its 10% to 15% Arab-Muslim citizens, it can be said to be "influenced by Islam".

7. That immigration reforms immediately be implemented to include a suspension of immigration by Muslims for not less than 20 years, exclusive of apostates seeking asylum.

Yes, all other persons could apply to immigrate here, except for Muslims, who would be excluded not for their actions or concrete threats to our society, but simply by virtue of their religion. Muslims who want to get away from an Islamo-Fascist state but remain Muslims? No exceptions. Muslim scientists or doctors or engineers who love democracy and want to contribute to America? No exceptions. Muslims coming to join family who are already citizens? No exceptions. If you want a shot at coming to America, you have to renounce your religion.

It is hard to think of anything less in line with the Constitution.

900 Aye Pod  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:01:11am

re: #876 medaura18586

The name of this group is self-explanatory: "Campaign for the 'Reconquista' in Anatolia!" It might not ring many bells to the average American, but to someone so attuned to the history and affairs of Byzantium and of Melkite Greek heritage like Spencer, the meaning would be crystal clear.

Yep - it's in the title that he read before clicking 'join'. Spencers claims of innocence/ignorance are not remotely convincing.

901 My 2 Cents  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:03:50am

I am getting really sick of this. Can we have some historical perspective please? Here's a question for you all: Who were the good guys and who were the bad guys in WW2? Think that's easy to answer? Well, let's apply LGF standards, shall we? Take a look at our advertisements to promote the war against Japan. We used racism against them. [Yes, I know, their racism against us was worse]. We also put Japanese Americans in camps. These people were US citizens! And yes, we were wrong to do that. Very wrong. So does that mean we were the bad guys? Nope. In fact, we were the good guys. Why? Because our enemies were far, far worse, that's why. And, come to think of it, we also did some bad things to a lot of native americans in this country's early years. So again, are we the bad guys? Once again, no. Our enemies are the bad guys. Charles Johnson is one of the good guys. Robert Spencer is one of the good guys. And most of the people posting here, criticizing JihadWatch and at JihadWatch criticizing LGF, are the good guys too! The real bad guys are the ones who want to kill and enslave us all. And this bickering is ignoring that, and tearing down our side, while our enemies rejoice. We couldn't have won WW2 if our troops had refused to fight Japan due to concluding that our internment of Japanese Americans was wrong. Stop calling Robert Spencer a Nazi. He's a damned fine American like you, me, and Charles Johnson. We have common enemy, and like our troops in WW2, we need to fight the enemy, not ourselves. Get a grip, people! And Charles, please reconsider your demonization of this man. I don't give a damn who started it. It is time that you simply state that you disagree with him. That can't be so tough. He disagrees with you too. So what? Robert Spencer isn't going to impose Sharia law on you, but our enemies plan to do exactly that. Robert Spencer isn't going to behead you, but our enemies are most certainly planning to do so. My God, I wonder if I had my own blog, with links, ads, friends, whatever, just how long it would take for the people who I admire so much to start calling me a genocidal maniac? My guess is I wouldn't last two weeks.

902 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:05:02am

re: #896 Bosch Fawstin

Had he just stated it was a mistake, I have full faith that Charles would have accepted that at face value and dropped this. That robert would invoke some grand conspiracy to dupe him into this mistake is laughable on it's face. It is robert that is showing he's suffering from paranoid fantasies, not Charles.

903 medaura18586  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:07:09am

re: #365 SFGoth

I can't decide whom I like more, Thomas Sowell or Walter Williams. They're both occasional guests on KSFO radio (560 am, SF) I think they'd make a dynamite tag team if the GOP ever gets its act together and needs some brilliant non-white men to explain economics.

They're both amazing. Sowell is a bit too old to be overly active in politics though. Not to mention, disillusioned. They are both great intellectuals and among my favorite economists.

904 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:09:00am

re: #901 My 2 Cents

Get you own blog then, and stop wasting our time. Read Cato's #899 if you still have doubts about Robert Spencer. Then come back when you are seeing clearly.

Until then, GAZE.

905 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:10:14am

re: #901 My 2 Cents

Sorry- the people lying about Charles, medaura, Killgore, Irish Rose, and me as well as other LGFers are not good people. They are liars. Liars on the edge of reasonableness.

906 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:11:12am

re: #899 Cato the Elder

And by the way, Spencer is still a member of the second innocent little group he joined yesterday.

"Citizens' Declaration of Threat & Plea for Relief", a more innocuous-looking affair carefully couched in reasonable-sounding language, but still ominous and blatantly anti-Muslim (not just anti-Islamo-Fascist) demands, to pick just two items:

Yes, all other persons could apply to immigrate here, except for Muslims, who would be excluded not for their actions or concrete threats to our society, but simply by virtue of their religion. Muslims who want to get away from an Islamo-Fascist state but remain Muslims? No exceptions. Muslim scientists or doctors or engineers who love democracy and want to contribute to America? No exceptions. Muslims coming to join family who are already citizens? No exceptions. If you want a shot at coming to America, you have to renounce your religion.

It is hard to think of anything less in line with the Constitution.

And that is the final proof of guilt in my opinion. If he joined one bad group by accident, you would think he would go through his groups and dump all the questionable ones. His failure to do so is revealing.

907 jaunte  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:11:27am

re: #901 My 2 Cents

Facing the threat posed by radical Islamists requires a broader-based response that the one you'll get by joining with people that want to invade the former lands of the Byzantines and displace or kill the population. If you can't see the fundamental wrong of joining these groups, maybe you can accept that it's insanely stupid politics.

908 Aye Pod  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:11:48am

re: #901 My 2 Cents

Another outing for the classic "Pay no attention to any of this. Look over there everyone - muslims!" post.

909 Bosch Fawstin  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:16:36am

Charles,

That's what happens with a feud, every single word one says is misconstrued as something other than it is by the other party, since there is no good faith involved, and each side needs to believe that one is right about the bad character of the person one has vilified. But if I recall correctly, it was you who accused Robert of being in bed with neo-nazis that begin this, and I don't blame Robert for not taking anything you say seriously after that. You have a huge forum here that gives a voice to a lot of us who are fighting the jihad, each in our own own individual way, why the hell alienate one of the best and most effective fighters out there, on a basis that has no basis in reality.

910 My 2 Cents  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:18:29am

re: #905 Sharmuta

Fine. Were the people who fought for America in WW2, while our own government interred American citizens of Japanese descent, good people? Should we stop calling them the "greatest generation"? What about the lies (the racism) that we told about the Japanese people? Surely, by your standards, we were not good people.

And hey, by the way, were any of the people who fought on the south side of the American Civil War good people? I mean, they supported slavery, right?

What monsters we American are... so let's try Sharia instead, hmm? Or can we, conceivably, accept that some of our fellow citizens are actually on the side of good, even if they are not so perfect as ourselves?

911 My 2 Cents  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:20:56am

re: #909 Bosch Fawstin

Charles, forgive me, but I must confess that this sounds accurate to me.

912 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:21:01am

re: #909 Bosch Fawstin

He alienated himself, and there is a basis in reality. He's on record as saying VB isn't fascist when in reality, they are.

913 medaura18586  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:21:58am

re: #387 William_Ryan

Right - because, hey, joining a group that's such a lightning rod would do wonders for his reputation right? It makes perfect sense that he'd publicly join a group with such extreme views. If this was some private group that the public couldn't see-- then I'd be a lot more inclined to believe its intentional.

I'm just some computer geek and occassional facebook user and I've gotten as many as 20 group invites in a day before (not saying I get that many every day by any means, but when it rains it pours) - and to clear out my box and get people to quit bugging me I've hit accept before.

I guess by your standard anyone commits such an oversight is stupid and someone like you could never do such a thing but to the rest of us that aren't so perfect, it's not an uncommon thing to do.

And I'm sure if he did do it by accident, and he quits the group, it'll no doubt be proof that he's guilty right? As opposed to showing he made a mistake.

What about this group he has joined? He's in their board of directors. I can guarantee you their views are no less extreme than those of the would-be re-conquistadors of Anatolia.

Members and associates include people blacklisted by the Pentagon for terrorism in the Balkans, defense witnesses of Slobo the Butcher Milosevic, lobbyists for Vladimir Putin's cronies in Urkaine, flaming supporters of Radovan Karadzic, and former advisers of Biljana Plavsic.

Any toll these associations make take on his reputation was never a deterrent to him. Why would joining a rabidly insane Facebook group, a much more mundane action, be of more significance to him?

914 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:22:59am

re: #909 Bosch Fawstin

....it was you who accused Robert of being in bed with neo-nazis that begin this....


Yes, Why shouldn't these associations be discussed? Charles has no obligation to hide radical associations in the counter-jihad movement.

.....why the hell alienate one of the best and most effective fighters out there, on a basis that has no basis in reality.


Because Spencer is no longer an effective spokesperson. He is too easily discredited by radical associations.

No basis in reality? You are behaving like a troll. Why don't you address the evidence instead of just claiming this is all made up? Which facts do dispute? Do you really think this is a grand conspiracy?

915 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:23:59am

re: #910 My 2 Cents

And Europe is at full scale declared war where?......


I fail to see your point in light of the fact that the people he's allied with are anti war, anti-surge, Fjordman leading that....

916 medaura18586  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:24:14am

re: #913 medaura18586

correction:

Any toll these associations make take on his reputation was never been a deterrent to him.

917 My 2 Cents  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:24:43am

re: #907 jaunte

I doubt Robert Spencer wants to displace and kill massive populations. Oh, and by the way, the USA firebombed Tokyo in WW2, displacing and killing massive populations. And yet, amazingly, we were the good guys. Or... once again, would you say that we were the monsters?

918 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:26:22am

re: #917 My 2 Cents

this is the same thing all the VB apologists have spouted for a yr. "buh buh but we allied with Stalin...."

919 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:28:51am

Some people see woefully under-informed that robert's fascist ties extend back quite some time. This isn't new, it's just a continuation of a pattern we've seen over and over again with robert

[Link: www.kejda.net...]

920 My 2 Cents  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:28:59am

re: #915 Thanos

Europe is definitely at war, a non-declared war, with militant Islam. If militant Islam is successful, millions of innocent will people will die. If militant Islamists obtain nuclear weapons, hundreds of millions of innocent people will die. This at least as much a war as the cold war was. Hundreds of millions of lives are at stake. Western Civilization is at stake. Your freedom is at stake. Humanity is at stake.

921 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:29:02am

re: #919 Sharmuta

See = seem

922 Bosch Fawstin  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:29:34am

Looking to make enemies of friends, for the slimmest of reasons, while we have some true, hardcore enemies which want all of us dead is an absolute waste of time, but it seems like many on this board don't think so. Have at it, at the cost of any credibility.

923 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:30:33am

re: #920 My 2 Cents

And if the heirs of the nazis continue to gain legitimacy and political influence, millions of people could die. pamela, robert and various other so-called counter-jihadis are doing all they can to help bring about that legitimacy.

924 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:30:58am

re: #922 Bosch Fawstin

Enjoy your fleas.

925 Bosch Fawstin  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:32:15am

I see.

926 My 2 Cents  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:34:20am

re: #923 Sharmuta

And if the heirs of the nazis continue to gain legitimacy and political influence, millions of people could die. pamela, robert and various other so-called counter-jihadis are doing all they can to help bring about that legitimacy.

I respectfully disagree that Robert Spencer is actually doing anything that promotes nazism. Indeed, it seems to me that Bill Clinton and Barack Obama are, and have been, vastly more friendly with extreme evil than Robert Spencer.

Oh, and please note that I am able to disagree with you without calling you a Nazi, a Fascist, etc. I only wish the Charles Johnson and Robert Spencer could communicate with each other similarly. I still admire both of them greatly.

927 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:34:58am

re: #925 Bosch Fawstin

I see.

No- you don't. You have tunnel vision. To defeat that which you find so terrible you would become like it. Enjoy.

928 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:35:14am

re: #922 Bosch Fawstin

Looking to make enemies of friends, for the slimmest of reasons, while we have some true, hardcore enemies which want all of us dead is an absolute waste of time, but it seems like many on this board don't think so. Have at it, at the cost of any credibility.

There is a mountain of evidence which you seem intent on ignoring. I will resist racists and ethnic nationalists with as much enthusiasm as I do radical Islam. Trust me, the counter Jihad movement is destroying it's own credibility on their own. The movement has allowed radicals and neo-fascists to participate. I think it's important that they discredit themselves as quickly as possible because we need to start from scratch.

929 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:36:06am

re: #920 My 2 Cents

Europe is definitely at war, a non-declared war, with militant Islam. If militant Islam is successful, millions of innocent will people will die. If militant Islamists obtain nuclear weapons, hundreds of millions of innocent people will die. This at least as much a war as the cold war was. Hundreds of millions of lives are at stake. Western Civilization is at stake. Your freedom is at stake. Humanity is at stake.

True, sir. However, I will not risk my freedom by allying with fascists. The defenders of freedom must stand apart from totalitarians of all stripes.

930 Irish Rose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:37:45am

re: #889 Killgore Trout

That sounds a little threatening.

Yes, it does.
If you receive even one bit of mail that is threatening in a personal nature from Spencer, Geller or any of his other cronies, Cato... make it known.

We have your back here.

931 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:38:36am

re: #926 My 2 Cents

robert posts essays from fascist sympathizers on his site. He links to other blogs that openly promote racist, fascist parties. I could go on and on.

Charles, on the other hand, has rejected all of this.

And I haven't called you any names whatsoever.

932 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:40:07am

re: #922 Bosch Fawstin

What you insist on labeling "the slimmest of reasons," I call a core principle.

I will never welcome fascist groups into my house. Never.

I'm disgusted that so many people are willing to compromise and ruin their credibility, because they're in a mindless panic about Islam.

933 medaura18586  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:41:50am

re: #406 Sharmuta

I was thinking that just a bit ago. I had called him a fascist apologist months ago. I was wrong. He's a flat out fascist.

I called him a religious supremacist months ago, and I still think that's a succinct summary of what motivates his hatred, but his manifestations lately are purely fascist.

934 Randall Gross  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:48:34am

re: #920 My 2 Cents

I get it we are all doomed unless we ally with the tribal nationalist haters, I've heard that line before, notably in the VB threads, and even in the Discovery Institute threads.

935 Born_to_lose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:50:23am

re: #932 Charles

A mindless panic about Islam? Come on! That is such an embellishment... is that REALLY what you think? If so, I am so, so, so very sorry for you and the realm of denial that you are dwelling in... Scrap all your unsubstantiated issues about Spencer's "associations" for like, a minute - you really think that the information that he posts daily on Jihad Watch is a "mindless panic about Islam"? If so, my Gawd, I think I've heard it all.... sheesh...

936 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:50:58am

re: #926 My 2 Cents

Have you even read the history of these euro-political parties robert is now giving legitimacy to with his explicit endorsement, on video, that they're not fascist?

937 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:51:23am

re: #935 Born_to_lose

Have you even read the history of these euro-political parties robert is now giving legitimacy to with his explicit endorsement, on video, that they're not fascist?

938 Bosch Fawstin  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:54:19am

re: #932 Charles

What you insist on labeling "the slimmest of reasons," I call a core principle.

I will never welcome fascist groups into my house. Never.

I'm disgusted that so many people are willing to compromise and ruin their credibility, because they're in a mindless panic about Islam.

Your principle is sound, it's just that you're accusing those who are not fascists of being fascists, which is unsound. No doubt racist/fascists groups are jumping onto the anti-jihad bandwagon in order to claim credibility, but you're then jumping to the conclusion that Robert is embracing this if not indifferent to it, which he is not. And your saying that those like Robert are in a "mindless panic about Islam" is very telling. There's nothing mindless about it, for it is Islam and its true believers which has made this site as active as it is. Don't forget that.

939 MPH  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:54:43am

re: #365 SFGoth

I can't decide whom I like more, Thomas Sowell or Walter Williams. They're both occasional guests on KSFO radio (560 am, SF) I think they'd make a dynamite tag team if the GOP ever gets its act together and needs some brilliant non-white men to explain economics.

I just read Thomas Sowell's memoir (and followed it up with Roger Simon's Blacklisting Myself -- wow, what an interesting contrast). Highly recommend you read it if you want to better understand how he became the great person he is widely recognized as today.

[Link: www.amazon.com...]

Perhaps even better is his more recent book, a collection of correspondence: A Man of Letters [Link: www.amazon.com...]

940 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:56:55am

re: #938 Bosch Fawstin

Have you even read the history of these euro-political parties robert is now giving legitimacy to with his explicit endorsement, on video, that they're not fascist?

941 My 2 Cents  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:57:24am

re: #932 Charles

I'm disgusted that so many people are willing to compromise and ruin their credibility, because they're in a mindless panic about Islam.

Yes. I am disgusted that Americans interred Japanese Americans. I am disgusted that Americans firebombed Tokyo, even though the attack on Pearl Harbor was against a military target, and killed less people than the attacks on Sept. 11, 2001. And yes, I love my country. And I hope we can fight against militant Islam without ever exhibiting racism, xenophobia, bad behavior, or even the mildest of prejudice against innocent muslims. Unfortunately, there are not a lot of wars like that in history. Even the American Civil wasn't all that civil, was it? And that war pitted brother against brother! Charles, how do you propose to defeat hundreds of millions of militant Islamists without ever allowing yourself to hate them? [Star Wars may be just a movie, but the emperor was right when he said that Luke's hate had given him strength.] This is certainly an ugly side of human nature. But if we refuse to hate our enemies, even a little, we may never be strong enough to defeat them. We Americans have hated the American Indians, the Japanese, the Germans, and even the Mexicans. And we have defeated them all in wars. And then, we have become friends with all of them! It may be that the same path is the only one that will actually work against militant Islam.

942 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:58:11am

re: #941 My 2 Cents

Wow. So you're arguing in favor of hatred now.

Lovely.

943 jaunte  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:59:50am

re: #941 My 2 Cents

Are you advocating in favor of these measures, or do you consider them radical?

Furthermore this group also realises that the territories for resettlement in lower central Asia may not be currently suitable for such a large demographic intake and that therefore, mass sterilisation via sexual segregation and voluntary euthenasia programmes (may for the time being), need to remain on the table in order to prevent a latter humanitarian disaster.
944 Irish Rose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:59:55am

The circular attempts to make excuses for Spencer by blinkered people who can't be bothered to actually read the facts laid before them is becoming increasingly annoying, and incredibly tedious.

945 Aye Pod  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 11:00:23am

re: #935 Born_to_lose

A mindless panic about Islam? Come on! That is such an embellishment... is that REALLY what you think? If so, I am so, so, so very sorry for you and the realm of denial that you are dwelling in... Scrap all your unsubstantiated issues about Spencer's "associations" for like, a minute - you really think that the information that he posts daily on Jihad Watch is a "mindless panic about Islam"? If so, my Gawd, I think I've heard it all.... sheesh...

Opposing something intelligently is a world away from mindlessly panicking about it. Joining a group which advocates genocide and using the excuse that you just clicked join because it looked, I dunno, anti-jihady clearly indicates the latter mindset.

946 Dark_Falcon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 11:00:25am

re: #935 Born_to_lose

You are willfully taking Charles out of context. He has posted and commented many times about Radical Islam. His credentials are impeccable in that matter. What he is saying is that people get so scared of a real enemy that they react by allying themselves with other people who would also take away their freedom if given the chance.

947 Irish Rose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 11:02:02am

re: #941 My 2 Cents

Charles, how do you propose to defeat hundreds of millions of militant Islamists without ever allowing yourself to hate them?

You have got to be kidding me.

948 guftafs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 11:03:16am

re: #941 My 2 Cents

Charles, how do you propose to defeat hundreds of millions of militant Islamists without ever allowing yourself to hate them? [Star Wars may be just a movie, but the emperor was right when he said that Luke's hate had given him strength.]

/mindless panic, anyone ...?

949 guftafs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 11:04:25am

re: #920 My 2 Cents

Europe is definitely at war, a non-declared war, with militant Islam.

Where is the war being fought as of this now? Define the frontiers, the units involved and who it is going.

950 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 11:04:56am

re: #945 Jimmah

Opposing something intelligently is a world away from mindlessly panicking about it. Joining a group which advocates genocide and using the excuse that you just clicked join because it looked, I dunno, anti-jihady clearly indicates the latter mindset.

Now, now- he was reckless and the victim of an elaborate scheme designed to pinpoint the exact moment in time where that recklessness would create trouble for him.

951 Dan G.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 11:07:06am

re: #841 Killgore Trout

Unless they choose to double down.

952 Aye Pod  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 11:07:36am

re: #942 Charles

Wow. So you're arguing in favor of hatred now.

But not against today's fascists, of course. We're supposed to treat them as allies.

953 My 2 Cents  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 11:07:37am

re: #942 Charles

Wow. So you're arguing in favor of hatred now.

Lovely.

I literally expected that response. It is very clever and to the point, so I don't blame you for saying it. I think I would have said it to if I were in your shoes. And I would have been just as wrong.

There are people who refuse to hate anyone. They tend to be pacifists. And sadly, they tend to be slaughtered like sheep by evil despots and their ruthless armies. There are some things that deserve hatred. There are some things that deserve rage. There are even some things that deserve massive, disproportionate rage-filled responses. Militant Islam is one of those things. Until we are ready to fight militant Islam with the same intensity, the same kind "total war" that we applied to Nazism and to Imperial Japan, then the war will not end, and we will be at risk of losing all the good that we now take for granted in modern civilization. Until worldwide Islam soundly refutes militant Islam, like Japan has refuted Imperial Japan, and like Germany has refuted Nazism, then this war will continue. You, Charles, have done much to open America's eyes. So has Robert Spencer, even if you do not approve of some of his approach. I am confident that you have both contributed positively to the war against militant Islam, and I thank you both for it.

954 Born_to_lose  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 11:08:17am

re: #946 Dark_Falcon

If my assumptions are correct, you are implying that Spencer is afraid of the real enemy? For someone who is afraid of the real enemy, he sure makes himself publicly accesible on loads of occassions, not to mention sticks his neck out about issues on his very web site regularly. So, maybe you should clarify for us - WHO is the real enemy, and WHO is afraid of that enemy, you know, just so we are all on the same page...

955 jaunte  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 11:08:43am

re: #950 Sharmuta

It's pretty sad for Robert Spencer that his supporters have to defend him by claiming he's either terribly careless or a dupe.

956 freedomnut  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 11:08:53am

Charles and LGF,

I originally came to this website after reading a MSM article about "hate-filled right-wing b