Gallup’s Darwin’s Birthday Evolution Poll

Science • Views: 3,529

Read it and weep (or if you’re a creationist, throw a party): On Darwin’s Birthday, Only 4 in 10 Believe in Evolution.

But if you look at the actual results, that headline’s a little skewed. It doesn’t mean that 60% of Americans reject science; it means that 39% accept the theory of evolution, 25% reject most of modern science, and 36% would rather watch American Idol than answer this stupid poll:

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473 comments
1 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:41:13pm

It adds up to 101%.

Morons.

2 saberry0530  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:42:14pm

re: #1 victor_yugo

It adds up to 101%.

Morons.

They rounded up!

3 HelloDare  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:42:25pm

re: #1 victor_yugo

It adds up to 101%.

Morons.

It's a miracle.

4 FrogMarch  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:42:33pm

I'd rather eat a dirt-n-fossil sandwich than watch American Idol.

5 HelloDare  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:43:39pm

Your angel's vote counts as 1/100th of yours.

6 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:43:56pm

I don't doubt the accuracy of this poll at all. I've been asking around a little here and there and it seems to me most people don't really doubt evolution- the recent advances in genetics and the genome are difficult to explain any other way, but they just don't know the full range of evidence to support the theory.

In other words- the large number of people basically saying "I don't know", that's represented by "no opinion" is largely due to ignorance (lack of knowledge).

I keep recommending Ken Miller's Only A Theory to them because I feel the book is not so technical that it will go over their heads.

7 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:44:11pm

re: #2 saberry0530

They rounded up!

So did Al Franken.

8 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:44:12pm

re: #1 victor_yugo

It adds up to 101%.

Morons.

I don't believe in the Theory of Addition.

9 HelloDare  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:45:01pm

Math is only a theory.

10 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:45:05pm

re: #8 Occasional Reader

I don't believe in the Theory of Addition.

Hey, in Christianity, 1 + 1 + 1 = 1.

11 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:45:32pm

re: #4 FrogMarch

I'd rather eat a dirt-n-fossil sandwich than watch American Idol.

I'd rather have intimate relations with a trilobite than watch American Idol.

12 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:46:20pm

re: #11 Occasional Reader

I'd rather have intimate relations with a trilobite than watch American Idol.

I'd rather make out with Helen Thomas than watch American Idol. OK, that was a bit of a stretch but...

13 HelloDare  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:46:57pm

re: #12 Jetpilot1101

I'd rather make out with Helen Thomas than watch American Idol. OK, that was a bit of a stretch but...

I'd watch the show.

14 Wendya  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:47:20pm

A lot of people might be confused by the phrase "do you believe in evolution", particularly older people who were taught evolution 30-40 years ago. Hell, I don't "believe" everything I was taught in school (or I'd be a leftist). Perhaps it would be better to ask if they understand the theory of evolution.

15 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:47:22pm

re: #12 Jetpilot1101

I'd rather make out with Helen Thomas than watch American Idol. OK, that was a bit of a stretch but...

I'd rather watch American Idol.

Or even Lassie. Or the Smurfs.

16 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:47:27pm

re: #4 FrogMarch

I'd rather eat a dirt-n-fossil sandwich than watch American Idol.

You supply the bread, I'll supply the fossils. What do you like on your bread. I'll see if I have it.

Is is snowing up there tonight, yet?

17 Last Mohican  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:47:37pm

re: #13 HelloDare

Can I watch it with the sound off? I'm not sure if it'll make a difference to me, but it might.

18 Wendya  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:48:27pm

re: #12 Jetpilot1101

I'd rather make out with Helen Thomas

I don't know whether to down ding you or offer my condolences.....

19 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:48:45pm

It's also disturbing to note the inverse relationship between education and church attendance. Churches desperately need to work on that.

20 HelloDare  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:49:04pm

re: #17 Last Mohican

Can I watch it with the sound off? I'm not sure if it'll make a difference to me, but it might.

Sure. Technically, you'd be watching.

21 FrogMarch  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:49:12pm

re: #11 Occasional Reader

I'd rather have intimate relations with a trilobite than watch American Idol.


I hear ya. a cute male Pakicetus would do it for me.

22 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:49:13pm

re: #11 Occasional Reader

I'd rather have intimate relations with a trilobite than watch American Idol.

No you wouldn't. Have you ever seen some of those trilobites? I'm not talking about the oblong scaly kind that looks like a doodle bug, I'm talking about the ones that look more like a spider on steriods and 2-3 foot long legs.

If I remember correctly, there are about 1000 varieties on them.

23 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:49:47pm

re: #19 Killgore Trout

It's also disturbing to note the inverse relationship between education and church attendance. Churches desperately need to work on that.

And the education system needs to quit setting itself up as God.

24 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:50:02pm

re: #18 Wendya

I don't know whether to down ding you or offer my condolences.....

Maybe I should have added the sarc tag. That was typed to illicit laughter. Have you read any of the previous threads today? Helen Thomas took a beating and boy was it hilarious.

25 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:50:07pm

re: #11 Occasional Reader

I'd rather have intimate relations with a trilobite than watch American Idol.

Image: russia-trilobite001b.jpeg

26 nyc redneck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:50:22pm

this poll shows how important it is to keep real science in the class room and keep creationism out.

27 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:50:34pm

re: #22 Walter L. Newton

I'm talking about the ones that look more like a spider on steriods and 2-3 foot long legs.

Stop it, you're driving me wild!

28 HelloDare  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:50:41pm

I bet Obama is was out of step with Trinity United Church of Christ on evolution.

29 Mich-again  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:50:41pm
and 36% would rather watch American Idol:

American Idol is a lot like survival of the fittest, so it is on topic. If "fittest" means the karaoke singer who can somehow run the gauntlet of Whitney Houston, Paul Anka and Miami Sound Machine songs and not make an idiot of themselves along the way.

30 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:50:45pm

re: #23 victor_yugo

And the education system needs to quit setting itself up as God.

How so?

31 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:50:49pm

re: #24 Jetpilot1101

Maybe I should have added the sarc tag. That was typed to illicit laughter.

Better hope nobody culls the cops.

32 Wendya  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:51:02pm

re: #24 Jetpilot1101

Maybe I should have added the sarc tag. That was typed to illicit laughter. Have you read any of the previous threads today? Helen Thomas took a beating and boy was it hilarious.

Oh, I understand it was meant to be sarcastic but damn..... to even put that thought into words had to take a toll on you.

33 Last Mohican  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:51:44pm

re: #25 Walter L. Newton

[Link: digsfossils.com...]

That was the worst porn I've ever seen in my entire life.

I am highly traumatized. I'm going to go watch American Idol now.

34 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:51:54pm

This simply shows that there is a false dichotomy that has been set up with the use of the word "creationism" because many people think that they are being asked to chose between God setting events into action or not.

Those that think that God created the universe via the big bang and aren't fully versed on the nomenclature of the camps in this argument could answer either way, especially when asked if they "believe" in evolution. Not a matter of "belief", really.

35 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:52:07pm

re: #25 Walter L. Newton

[Link: digsfossils.com...]

Full frontal nudity! Oooh, baby!

36 cornerback  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:52:14pm

Thank G-d!

37 Spare O'Lake  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:52:20pm

Self-delusion is highly underrated.

38 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:52:34pm

re: #32 Wendya

Oh, I understand it was meant to be sarcastic but damn..... to even put that thought into words had to take a toll on you.

You should read the previous threads. I laughed myself silly with all the Helen Thomas humor.

39 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:52:34pm

re: #14 Wendya

A lot of people might be confused by the phrase "do you believe in evolution", particularly older people who were taught evolution 30-40 years ago. Hell, I don't "believe" everything I was taught in school (or I'd be a leftist). Perhaps it would be better to ask if they understand the theory of evolution.

Using the term "believe" when talking about evolution only plays into the hands of those who want to claim it's a belief system/religion. I utterly reject that word when discussing evolution with others now, and insist on using "accept".

40 Last Mohican  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:52:35pm

re: #35 Occasional Reader

Full frontal nudity! Oooh, baby!

Are you sure that was the front?

41 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:53:07pm

re: #36 cornerback

Thank G-d!

Thank G-d WHAT?

(I call dibs on the leg)

42 FrogMarch  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:53:22pm

re: #16 Walter L. Newton

You supply the bread, I'll supply the fossils. What do you like on your bread. I'll see if I have it.

Is is snowing up there tonight, yet?

Any dirt-n-fossil combo will do.
--Snow - why yes- a few flakes are beginning to flutter downward.

43 saberry0530  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:53:32pm

re: #35 Occasional Reader

Full frontal nudity! Oooh, baby!

How about a NSFW with that!

/////////////////////////////////

44 SpaceJesus  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:53:52pm

my picture sums up how I feel about this better than words can

45 BryanS  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:54:01pm

Poor headline. They could just as easily asserted only one in four do not believe in evolution. I honestly think phrasing it that way would be more controversial (and more newsworthy) than phrasing it the way they did. So, why did Gallup choose the angle they did?

46 Last Mohican  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:54:42pm

re: #39 Sharmuta

I utterly reject that word when discussing evolution with others now, and insist on using "accept".

Maybe "understand" would be the right term.

47 capitalist piglet  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:54:45pm

re: #11 Occasional Reader

I'd rather have intimate relations with a trilobite than watch American Idol.

I'd rather take my contacts out with razor blades than watch American Idol.

48 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:54:46pm

re: #40 Last Mohican

Are you sure that was the front?

Absolutely! And I don't even care if those antennae were "falsies".

49 OldLineTexan  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:54:46pm

re: #37 Spare O'Lake

Self-delusion is highly underrated.

Keep tellin' yerself that.

/

50 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:54:59pm
51 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:55:10pm

re: #30 Killgore Trout

By declaring "morals" an out-moded framework of decision-making.

Exhibit A: creating sympathy for Islamic terrorists at the behest of CAIR and the commie pinkos in the NEA.

52 karmic_inquisitor  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:55:18pm

re: #19 Killgore Trout

It's also disturbing to note the inverse relationship between education and church attendance. Churches desperately need to work on that.

Coincidental. I don't think it is fair to infer that people who go to church aren't educated. Not the case at my church. You can't swing a dead cat and not hit a hit someone who has a post graduate degree.

53 HelloDare  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:55:25pm

re: #44 SpaceJesus

my picture sums up how I feel about this better than words can

God is crying because he's got his head stuck between the Earth and the Moon? That's how you're feeling?

54 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:55:47pm
25% reject most of modern science

Do they not watch television? Go to the doctor when they're sick? Get immunized? Drive a car? Ride a bus? Catch a train? Use a computer? Eat food from a can? Have a refigerator?

55 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:56:28pm

re: #10 victor_yugo

Hey, in Christianity, 1 + 1 + 1 = 1.

Excuse me? Are you saying that Christians are ignorant?

56 HelloDare  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:56:50pm

re: #54 MandyManners

Do they not watch television? Go to the doctor when they're sick? Get immunized? Drive a car? Ride a bus? Catch a train? Use a computer? Eat food from a can? Have a refigerator?

Your forgot indoor plumbing.

57 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:56:52pm

Actually- just this morning I recommended Dr Miller's book to two people. One of whom I discovered has been listening to Kent Hovind's podcasts. Kent's been doing a good job on this guy by hiding his YEC in the usual ID rhetoric of "micro not macro" and the likes. I set the guy straight today, and told him Hovind is a creationist. He then told me, "yeah, but he brings up a great point about medicines that have been tested, that they later find aren't so great". I told him, "Dude- the man is pointing that out because he wants you to question all of science."

I do think I convinced him to get Dr. Miller's book. The guy also has a Kindle, so I'm going to be pushing him on this- he can get the book in 60 seconds or less.

58 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:57:14pm

re: #44 SpaceJesus

my picture sums up how I feel about this better than words can

Are you Jesus?

59 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:57:28pm

re: #55 MandyManners

Excuse me? Are you saying that Christians are ignorant?

No, I think he's referring to the concept of the Trinity.

60 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:57:28pm

re: #55 MandyManners

No- that's the Trinity.

61 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:57:51pm

re: #54 MandyManners

Do they not watch television? Go to the doctor when they're sick? Get immunized? Drive a car? Ride a bus? Catch a train? Use a computer? Eat food from a can? Have a refigerator?

no yes yes yes yes yes yes yes yes

Why is your first question about something evil thrown in with all that other good stuff? ;-)

62 HelloDare  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:57:58pm

re: #55 MandyManners

Excuse me? Are you saying that Christians are ignorant?

I took it as a joke about The Trinity.

63 ConservativeAtheist  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:58:12pm

Sheesh. Only 55% of respondents even knew that Darwin was associated with evolution!

64 OldLineTexan  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:58:40pm

re: #52 karmic_inquisitor

Coincidental. I don't think it is fair to infer that people who go to church aren't educated. Not the case at my church. You can't swing a dead cat and not hit a hit someone who has a post graduate degree.

No, everyone that goes to church is stupid. Insecure atheists desperately need to believe that. And all's fair in conflicting egos and belief systems.

65 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:58:40pm

re: #19 Killgore Trout

It's also disturbing to note the inverse relationship between education and church attendance. Churches desperately need to work on that.

Science has shown that being in deep prayer can improve brain function, mood, and emotional control. Of course, if churches advertise this than they'd have to admit that Buddhist meditation is just as effective. That might not fly if you preach that your faith is the only true one...

66 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:59:10pm

Woo-hoo! Atheist dude is first on deck with the Trinity reference! Atheists totally ROCK!

/

67 SpaceJesus  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:59:20pm

re: #58 Walter L. Newton

Are you Jesus?


pretty much

68 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:59:22pm

re: #62 HelloDare

I took it as a joke about The Trinity.

Well, not a joke. Just saying that the rules of mathematics are for the creation, but the Creator is not bound to them.

69 BryanS  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:59:24pm

re: #63 ConservativeAtheist

Sheesh. Only 55% of respondents even knew that Darwin was associated with evolution!

That's just a reflection of the sad state of affairs in education in the US.

70 OldLineTexan  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:59:25pm

re: #55 MandyManners

Excuse me? Are you saying that Christians are ignorant?

It's a funny Trinity joke.

71 BignJames  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 7:59:35pm

re: #55 MandyManners

Excuse me? Are you saying that Christians are ignorant?

Father + Son + Holy Ghost = 1

72 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:00:19pm

re: #66 Occasional Reader

Woo-hoo! Atheist dude is first on deck with the Trinity reference! Atheists totally ROCK!

/

And right behind you, a non-Catholic sharmuta. What are the odds? You and me, Baby. W00t!

73 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:00:23pm

re: #67 SpaceJesus

pretty much

Can you prove it?

74 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:00:26pm

I know it's on topic (shame on me), but that 36% "No Opinion" is what is truly disturbing. We can't blame Protestant fundie Christians for that but, rather, the deplorable state of science education in this country (and public K-12 school education in general). Government public education has become a f*cking joke and the NEA must shoulder the bulk of the blame, after 40 years of dumbing down the curriculum so that "everybody wins".

Our children is not learning.

75 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:00:37pm

re: #67 SpaceJesus

I thought you were Socrates.

76 Killgore Trout  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:00:38pm

Dr. Ken Miller on Harunyahya

77 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:00:46pm

*sigh*

I'm sorry. I'm feeling a little raw right now.

I apologize for being an ass.

78 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:00:53pm

re: #66 Occasional Reader

Woo-hoo! Atheist dude is first on deck with the Trinity reference! Atheists totally ROCK!

/

"Atheist dude"? To whom do you refer?

79 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:01:04pm

re: #66 Occasional Reader

We'd tied, actually.

80 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:01:24pm

re: #78 victor_yugo

"Atheist dude"? To whom do you refer?

Me.

81 unclassifiable  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:01:24pm

re: #54 MandyManners

Do they not watch television? Go to the doctor when they're sick? Get immunized? Drive a car? Ride a bus? Catch a train? Use a computer? Eat food from a can? Have a refigerator?

Oh they do all that.

They just don't want to think about it.

They also wonder how the meat gets wrapped up in that nice clear plastic wrap.

/good god we are fucking stooopid

82 BryanS  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:01:34pm

re: #73 Jetpilot1101

Can you prove it?

No need. That's what faith is for :)

83 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:01:54pm

re: #77 MandyManners

*sigh*

I'm sorry. I'm feeling a little raw right now.

I apologize for being an ass.

You're an ass, but you're also shoulders, earlobes, fingers, toesies, and I'd better shut up....

84 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:02:19pm

re: #79 Sharmuta

We'd tied, actually.

Poppycock. My :28 came before your :28!

85 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:02:23pm

re: #74 Spiny Norman

*K-12 public school education*

Ah needs an editor!

86 BignJames  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:02:26pm

re: #75 Sharmuta

I thought you were Socrates.


That's Hey-soose.

87 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:02:37pm

re: #55 MandyManners

Excuse me? Are you saying that Christians are ignorant?

I think it was a joke on the Trinity =)

88 Mich-again  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:02:52pm

The problem with a poll like this is that so many people don't even know enough to understand the question. I would hazard a guess that many people think the theory of evolution leads to the ultimate conclusion there was no creator involved at all. So when someone asks them, "Do you believe in evolution?", they hear "Are you an atheist?".

89 BryanS  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:03:15pm

re: #86 BignJames

That's Hey-soose.

Zeus?

90 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:03:16pm

Heck with Darwin/Lincoln. It is Christina Ricci's birthday!

91 dapperdave  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:03:28pm

re: #67 SpaceJesus

O.K. we have to give you the Jesus test, I'll get some wood and some nails we'll need volunteers to dig a tomb and some folks to guard it for 3 days, if you rise you pass ;)

92 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:03:30pm

re: #87 Basho

I think it was a joke on the Trinity =)

Why would anyone joke about the trinity here?

93 LGoPs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:04:18pm

re: #12 Jetpilot1101

I'd rather make out with Helen Thomas than watch American Idol. OK, that was a bit of a stretch but...

Yikes!. I hate American Idol too but let's not get crazy here..........
:)

94 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:04:31pm

re: #86 BignJames

That's Hey-soose.

"They were saying 'Hey Zeus'! My name is Zeus!"

95 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:04:51pm

re: #92 Walter L. Newton

Why would anyone joke about the trinity here?

I loved the Cowboy Junkies "Trinity Sessions" album.

96 laxmatt1984  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:04:53pm

Virginia's GOP chair today.

I will not vote for a Virginia Republican as long as Jeff Frederick is the party's chair.

97 Mich-again  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:05:09pm

re: #10 victor_yugo

Hey, in Christianity, 1 + 1 + 1 = 1.

No. Its more like 1 * 1 * 1 = 1. In math 1 means unity.

98 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:05:12pm

re: #94 victor_yugo

"They were saying 'Hey Zeus'! My name is Zeus!"

Hey Blinkin!

99 OldLineTexan  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:05:28pm

re: #95 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I loved the Cowboy Junkies "Trinity Sessions" album.

I like Cowboy Bebop.

I bet there was a trinity in there somewhere.

100 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:05:41pm

re: #88 Mich-again

The problem with a poll like this is that so many people don't even know enough to understand the question. I would hazard a guess that many people think the theory of evolution leads to the ultimate conclusion there was no creator involved at all. So when someone asks them, "Do you believe in evolution?", they hear "Are you an atheist?".

I'm wondering about that, too.

101 SpaceJesus  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:05:45pm

re: #75 Sharmuta

I thought you were Socrates.

damn, the jig is up

102 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:05:56pm

re: #93 LGoPs

Yikes!. I hate American Idol too but let's not get crazy here..........
:)

Just fondly remembering he previous threads with the plethora of Hellen Thomas jokes. I think you were there today.

103 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:06:23pm

re: #95 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I loved the Cowboy Junkies "Trinity Sessions" album.

No, I am really serious. Why would anyone joke about the trinity here?

104 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:07:19pm

re: #86 BignJames

That's Hey-soose.

So Crates. Like Bill and Ted.

105 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:07:33pm

re: #100 MandyManners

re: #88 Mich-again

The problem with a poll like this is that so many people don't even know enough to understand the question. I would hazard a guess that many people think the theory of evolution leads to the ultimate conclusion there was no creator involved at all. So when someone asks them, "Do you believe in evolution?", they hear "Are you an atheist?".

I'm wondering about that, too.

I imagine that accounts for much of the "No Opinion" people.

106 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:07:34pm

re: #95 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I loved the Cowboy Junkies "Trinity Sessions" album.

I heard about another Trinity Session. But they bombed.

107 LGoPs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:07:43pm

re: #102 Jetpilot1101

Just fondly remembering he previous threads with the plethora of Hellen Thomas jokes. I think you were there today.

I was.......what you said was pretty funny I admit. Couldn't resist commenting though. Figure you'll pay me back some day.....

:)

108 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:08:43pm

re: #103 Walter L. Newton

Dunno. I wasn't joking. Loved the Cowboy Junkies "The Trinity Sessions" album. Sweet Jane.

109 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:09:46pm

re: #101 SpaceJesus

For what it's worth- I kind of dig your avatar. I wouldn't doubt Jesus would cry looking down on us. And I firmly believe there are some who think they know Him who will be in for a rude awakening when He tells them He's actually quite pissed.

110 Mich-again  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:10:14pm

re: #105 Spiny Norman

I imagine that accounts for much of the "No Opinion" people.

I think the no opinion people are the Jay Leno Streetwalker types. They aren't sure if Evolution is a band, a video game, or the study of chimpanzees.

111 jaunte  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:10:19pm

re: #101 SpaceJesus

Now that's funny.

112 Throbert McGee  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:10:46pm

Note that the poll question does not actually define "evolution," but rather assumes that its meaning is universally agreed upon. Of course, there is no such agreement -- for example, some people who "believe in evolution" take it as a given that the evolutionary process is entirely naturalistic, while other "believers in evolution" (Michael Behe, for example) maintain that from time to time, God uses His supernatural powers to nudge and tweak the process.

And in the absence of a clear definition, the poll is basically asking how people react to the word "evolution." Apparently 39% are comfortable with it, while 25% find that the word is not to their taste.

113 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:10:46pm

re: #104 Sharmuta

So Crates. Like Bill and Ted.

Dust... in the wind...

114 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:11:28pm

re: #110 Mich-again

I think the no opinion people are the Jay Leno Streetwalker types. They aren't sure if Evolution is a band, a video game, or the study of chimpanzees.

It's an email/calendar program.

115 Last Mohican  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:11:48pm

re: #88 Mich-again

So when someone asks them, "Do you believe in evolution?", they hear "Are you an atheist?".

If that's true, then the strategy adopted by people like the Discovery Institute must be working. And more should be done to stop them.

116 Mich-again  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:11:52pm

re: #112 Throbert McGee

the poll is basically asking how people react to the word "evolution.


Thats what I'm talking about.

117 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:12:00pm

re: #109 Sharmuta

For what it's worth- I kind of dig your avatar. I wouldn't doubt Jesus would cry looking down on us. And I firmly believe there are some who think they know Him who will be in for a rude awakening when He tells them He's actually quite pissed.

I have posted this before, but I will mention it again. I have a friend who did a number of tee shirt artworks and posters, and one was Jesus on the cross, with a text bubble, and in the bubble was the words...

"You will myth me when I'm gone."

118 OldLineTexan  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:12:01pm

re: #108 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Dunno. I wasn't joking. Loved the Cowboy Junkies "The Trinity Sessions" album. Sweet Jane.

At last. Now I can get a mellow so y'all can harsh it.

/

119 winston06  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:12:13pm

Charles, I am with you on evolution but who cares what the French or any European thinks about America and her people? I am not even an American and have no beef in this, to be honest. But since when French opinion really mattered to most patriotic Americans? They don't like America for 101 other reasons (which are all wrong) and we don't care. I believe you shouldn't really bother if the crazy French don't like you on this either.

120 BryanS  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:12:53pm

re: #105 Spiny Norman

I imagine that accounts for much of the "No Opinion" people.

I dunno. Everybody knows that the world is filled with stupid people. The 34% who didn't know that Darwin is associated with evolution pretty much accounts for most of the no opinion results.

121 Clemente  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:13:52pm

re: #10 victor_yugo

Hey, in Christianity, 1 + 1 + 1 = 1.

Or maybe ∞ + ∞ + ∞ = ∞

Maybe.

122 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:13:55pm
123 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:14:05pm

re: #113 Occasional Reader

Dust... in the wind...

Like sands through the hourglass.......

124 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:14:36pm

re: #120 BryanS

I dunno. Everybody knows that the world is filled with stupid people. The 34% who didn't know that Darwin is associated with evolution pretty much accounts for most of the no opinion results.

Again, even without the Disco Institute's meddling, public K-12 science education in this country is beyond embarrassing.

125 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:14:36pm

re: #123 Sharmuta

Like sands through the hourglass.......

Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale...

126 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:14:40pm

re: #117 Walter L. Newton

I have posted this before, but I will mention it again. I have a friend who did a number of tee shirt artworks and posters, and one was Jesus on the cross, with a text bubble, and in the bubble was the words...

"You will myth me when I'm gone."

That's funny too.

127 WindHorse  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:14:50pm

D-E-V-O....

128 LGoPs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:15:03pm

re: #122 Iron Fist

Trinity. When you care enough to send the very best...

Ha....I knew it even before I clicked the link........
:)

129 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:15:05pm

re: #123 Sharmuta

Like sands through the hourglass.......

Like walking through shards of glass...

130 OldLineTexan  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:15:11pm

re: #119 winston06

Charles, I am with you on evolution but who cares what the French or any European thinks about America and her people? I am not even an American and have no beef in this, to be honest. But since when French opinion really mattered to most patriotic Americans? They don't like America for 101 other reasons (which are all wrong) and we don't care. I believe you shouldn't really bother if the crazy French don't like you on this either.

Pah, the French have no oil. Therefore, Americans and their cowboy stupid President do not care about them.

What?

The President is no longer a stupid cowboy?

Merde!

131 BryanS  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:15:46pm

re: #124 Spiny Norman

Again, even without the Disco Institute's meddling, public K-12 science education in this country is beyond embarrassing.

One word.... UNIONS

132 Jetpilot1101  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:15:48pm

Goodnight Lizards. See you all tomorrow.

133 Mich-again  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:15:55pm

re: #115 Last Mohican

And more should be done to stop them.

We all have to take turns playing Whac-a-Mole with the Creationists when they pop up pushing legislation around the country.

134 Syrah  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:15:57pm

re: #119 winston06

Charles, I am with you on evolution but who cares what the French or any European thinks about America and her people? I am not even an American and have no beef in this, to be honest. But since when French opinion really mattered to most patriotic Americans? They don't like America for 101 other reasons (which are all wrong) and we don't care. I believe you shouldn't really bother if the crazy French don't like you on this either.

The French were not the point, but rather the foil.

The point was to make an example of the creationist for being so over the top that even the French can rightly look down on them.

135 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:16:01pm

re: #110 Mich-again

I think the no opinion people are the Jay Leno Streetwalker types. They aren't sure if Evolution is a band, a video game, or the study of chimpanzees.

But they did vote for Hopenchange, so they got that goin' for them...

/

136 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:16:02pm

re: #130 OldLineTexan

Pah, the French have no oil. Therefore, Americans and their cowboy stupid President do not care about them.

What?

The President is no longer a stupid cowboy?

Merde!

No longer a cowboy, but makes up for it with greatly increased stupidity.

137 LGoPs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:16:23pm

re: #132 Jetpilot1101

Fly safe......

138 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:17:08pm

re: #128 LGoPs

Ha....I knew it even before I clicked the link........
:)

What am I, chopped liver?
(#106)

139 winston06  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:17:33pm

re: #134 Syrah

I understand I posted in the wrong thread. I apologize. But I don't think French opinion should be important at all, especially within the US borders.

140 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:18:10pm

re: #126 Sharmuta

That's funny too.

I don't see it as funny, I see it as very sad, and true. Look what has been done in his name over the last 2000 years. Even if you only believe he was a insightful teacher and nothing more, even if most of the morality we read in the greek scriptures were made up by inspired followers, there is so much good stuff in there.

But, the world has turned Jesus into the point of a sword, to use and abuse as we see fit.

No, it's sad.

141 LGoPs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:18:25pm

re: #138 Occasional Reader

What am I, chopped liver?
(#106)

Oops. Sorry, jumped in late.
*bows humbly*

:)

142 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:18:29pm
143 Clemente  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:18:55pm

re: #132 Jetpilot1101

Stay under the radar.

/unless, of course, you're supposed to be on the radar!

144 Mich-again  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:19:20pm

re: #135 Spiny Norman

But they did vote for Hopenchange,

90% of them voted for hOpebama. The other 10% were too stupid to even do that and voted for McCain by mistake.

145 horse  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:19:35pm

re: #88 Mich-again

The problem with a poll like this is that so many people don't even know enough to understand the question. I would hazard a guess that many people think the theory of evolution leads to the ultimate conclusion there was no creator involved at all. So when someone asks them, "Do you believe in evolution?", they hear "Are you an atheist?".

I imagine some may actually hear the question as "Do you worship Satan?"

146 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:20:17pm

re: #142 FurryOldGuyJeans

Well, gee, lookie here:

SURPRISE! Dems Break Promise: Stimulus Bill to Floor Friday

Transparency my ass.

147 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:20:24pm

Has the Dan Quayle rehabilitator arrived yet?

Joe Biden: Rain Man Of The Democratic Party

148 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:20:47pm

re: #142 FurryOldGuyJeans

Well, gee, lookie here:

SURPRISE! Dems Break Promise: Stimulus Bill to Floor Friday

See, it's just such a totally amazing bill, that no one could possibly disagree with it, so there's no reason to have any of those boring debates about it.

/

149 TheAntichrist  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:20:47pm

In the South Park episode where Cartman became a 9/11 conspiracy theorist Kyle remarks that 25% of Americans are retarded. The number holds true!

150 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:20:58pm

re: #105 Spiny Norman

I imagine that accounts for much of the "No Opinion" people.

I also imagine it accounts for a lot of those who say they don't believe.

151 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:21:06pm

re: #145 horse

I imagine some may actually hear the question as "Do you worship Satan?"

Speak for yourself.

Oops! You are!

152 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:21:18pm

re: #131 BryanS

re: #124 Spiny Norman

Again, even without the Disco Institute's meddling, public K-12 science education in this country is beyond embarrassing.

One word.... UNIONS

By dumbing down the curriculum (everybody wins! Yay!), the NEA has done damage to education that will take at least a generation to undo.

But it did make the country safe for Socialism.

153 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:21:51pm

re: #140 Walter L. Newton

"I come not to bring peace, but a sword..."

154 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:22:14pm

re: #123 Sharmuta

Like sands through the hourglass.......

As the world turns.

155 Mich-again  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:22:14pm

re: #145 horse

I imagine some may actually hear the question as "Do you worship Satan?"

Church Lady!

156 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:22:27pm

Could O's socialist power grab be even more evident?

Controlling the Census: The Obama Administration's Power Grab

157 Last Mohican  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:23:14pm

re: #142 FurryOldGuyJeans

Well, gee, lookie here:

SURPRISE! Dems Break Promise: Stimulus Bill to Floor Friday

The stimulus bill... will be released late tonight and will be brought up on the House floor at 9 am tomorrow.

It would have been nice if they could have let the Republicans see it before voting on it.

158 Throbert McGee  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:23:18pm

re: #88 Mich-again

The problem with a poll like this is that so many people don't even know enough to understand the question. I would hazard a guess that many people think the theory of evolution leads to the ultimate conclusion there was no creator involved at all. So when someone asks them, "Do you believe in evolution?", they hear "Are you an atheist?".

As a corollary to that: If the poll question were re-written so as to remind people of the "theistic evolution" concept, I'd bet a shiny new penny that the numbers for "I believe in evolution" would've been much, much higher.

159 Catttt  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:23:20pm

BELIEVE in evolution? What the hell is that supposed to mean?

NO OPINION? DUHHHHHH. More like clueless. Clue Less.

160 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:23:45pm
161 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:24:19pm

re: #159 Catttt

"Clue-impaired"

"Remarkably free from the ravages of intelligence"

162 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:24:23pm

re: #156 FurryOldGuyJeans

Could O's socialist power grab be even more evident?

Controlling the Census: The Obama Administration's Power Grab

$4 Billion plus for ACORN. I wonder what it could be for...

Other than fighting prosecutions for voter fraud, that is.

163 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:25:08pm

re: #157 Last Mohican

It would have been nice if they could have let the Republicans see it before voting on it.

Did you read the article? There are dems complaining that THEY haven't been able to see it.

164 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:25:12pm

Goodnight Christina Ricci, wherever you are!

165 Catttt  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:25:12pm

re: #161 victor_yugo

"Clue-impaired"

"Remarkably free from the ravages of intelligence"

Stupido. Ignoramosity. Duhness. Lot of grey cells for let.

166 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:25:27pm

re: #145 horse

"Do you worship Satan?"

No, we're just friends.

167 Dustyvet  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:25:45pm

re: #12 Jetpilot1101

I'd rather make out with Helen Thomas than watch American Idol. OK, that was a bit of a stretch but...

Carefull, or they not going to let you fly the jet anymore...:)

168 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:25:51pm

re: #164 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Goodnight Christina Ricci, wherever you are!

On my face :)

169 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:26:03pm
170 Dan G.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:26:19pm

This is VERY interesting, especially since the DI'ers, or their supporters, will throw out that only 37% believe in evolution, and leave their unsuspecting victim to assume that 63% don't believe (i.e. excluding other options), or are in fact YEC'rs like themselves..

171 LGoPs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:26:21pm

re: #165 Catttt

Stupido. Ignoramosity. Duhness. Lot of grey cells for let.

ACORN's prime target group........
/

172 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:26:26pm
173 BignJames  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:26:43pm

re: #168 Walter L. Newton

On my face :)

!

174 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:27:00pm

re: #168 Walter L. Newton

On my face :)

I don't see the tattoo on your face in the pic...

175 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:27:03pm
176 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:27:12pm

re: #156 FurryOldGuyJeans

Could O's socialist power grab be even more evident?

Controlling the Census: The Obama Administration's Power Grab

Marsha Blackburn - the first quote - is a kickass lady, whom I've had the pleasure of meeting. If we had a whole Congress full of Marshas, we wouldn't be in this mess.

177 jaunte  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:27:48pm

re: #163 Walter L. Newton

Did you see this?
Congressional Offices Don't Have the Stimulus Bill, Lobbyists Do
[Link: www.usnews.com...]

178 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:28:03pm

re: #175 WOHBuckeye

Bye!

179 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:28:33pm

re: #172 FurryOldGuyJeans

Will we get to see more of O's whiny face again?

D'oh! Caterpillar CEO Contradicts President on Whether Stimulus Will Allow Him to Re-Hire Laid Off Workers

I wonder what the over/under is for how long it takes for Pres. Hopenchange to have approval ratings similar to Congress's.

180 Killer Tomato  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:28:41pm

re: #176 Occasional Reader

Marsha, Marsha, Marsha...

(come on, some of you were thinking it)

181 Catttt  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:29:01pm

Does anyone ask anyone if they believe in cell theory? atomic theory? theoretical physics? the general theory of relativity?

182 BryanS  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:29:12pm

re: #178 Walter L. Newton

Heh...by the time I down dinged no less.

183 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:29:13pm

Another melt-down?

184 Dustyvet  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:29:21pm

re: #180 Killer Tomato

Marsha, Marsha, Marsha...

(come on, some of you were thinking it)

Guilty,guilty, guilty....

185 unclassifiable  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:29:31pm

re: #175 WOHBuckeye

The door is right in front of you.

Follow your left mouse key to any other site in the entire friggin internet.

Do it now for your sake and ours.

186 dragondirt  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:29:31pm

Hamas threw 'medicine grenades' at IDF

[Link: www.dragondirt.org...]

187 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:29:37pm

re: #181 Catttt

Does anyone ask anyone if they believe in cell theory? atomic theory? theoretical physics? the general theory of relativity?

Global warming?

188 Miles Smit  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:29:39pm

I am closer to the third category. I think it's an extremely important theory. But is has become something more than that: it is a kind of over-belief in the culture of biologists.

189 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:29:46pm

Sellin' little bottles of ... creationist meltdown #7.

190 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:29:58pm

re: #178 Walter L. Newton

re: #175 WOHBuckeye

Bye!

That was quick. What brand of stoopid was it?

191 LGoPs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:30:02pm

re: #156 FurryOldGuyJeans

Could O's socialist power grab be even more evident?

Controlling the Census: The Obama Administration's Power Grab

Goddamn Republicans need to do a preemptive strike and start litigating the shit out of this. Throw the libtards primary weapon right back in their faces - lawsuit them to death..........

192 M. Bensson-Levi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:30:13pm

re: #122 Iron Fist

Trinity. When you care enough to send the very best...

During the Trinity test a camera using a rotating mirror instead of a mechanical shutter took photos at a rate of either 1, or 3, (I forget which) MILLION frames per second. In three sequential photos (I think it was 3 million frames per second) you can see the bomb casing bulging, but still intact, the fireball half way down the still intact tower, and finally, the fireball reaching the ground and consuming the tower. Absolutely amazing photos. I've seen copies of them. Unreal.
If I ever remember the name of the photo book that I saw them in, I'll let you know. The Title is sort of hovering around just outside the range of my memory, but it's there.

193 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:30:17pm

re: #140 Walter L. Newton

I don't disagree with you, but it was a clever pun.

194 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:30:17pm

re: #180 Killer Tomato

Marsha, Marsha, Marsha...

(come on, some of you were thinking it)

I knew that was inevitable.

195 Dan G.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:30:22pm

re: #177 jaunte

Damn scary.

196 unclassifiable  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:30:22pm

re: #185 unclassifiable

Whoa.

He must have been standing right under the 16 ton weight.

197 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:30:24pm

Whoa! I just saw a comment deleted before my eyes. I've never seen the hand of Stinky before. It was...wow...so sudden.

198 Catttt  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:30:36pm

re: #187 victor_yugo

Global warming?

OK. People do ask if people believe in that one. I'll call a draw on that theory. But still.

199 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:30:44pm

Well, if Bill says it, it must be something good, right?

Clinton wants 'more balance' on airwaves

200 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:30:47pm

re: #177 jaunte

Did you see this?
Congressional Offices Don't Have the Stimulus Bill, Lobbyists Do
[Link: www.usnews.com...]

I want to talk to ONE American that is surprised by any of this. Boy do I have a woop-ass of reality to put on them.

201 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:31:08pm

re: #189 Charles

Sellin' little bottles of ... creationist meltdown #7.

Someone else gets to grouse over at Hot Air?

202 Catttt  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:31:37pm

The world is going mad, except at the place where I work. Oh, and here.

203 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:31:49pm

re: #197 EmmmieG

Whoa! I just saw a comment deleted before my eyes. I've never seen the hand of Stinky before. It was...wow...so sudden.

Scary, innit?

204 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:31:51pm

re: #192 M. Bensson-Levi

I think Doc Edgerton was involved in that photography.

205 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:31:52pm
206 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:32:06pm

re: #199 FurryOldGuyJeans

Well, if Bill says it, it must be something good, right?

Clinton wants 'more balance' on airwaves

Ah. So, conservative programs on NPR? That sort of thing? That's what he means, right?

/

207 Catttt  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:32:30pm

I wish I could hit an open registration at Hot Air. I signed up to that Word Press thing so I'd be ready. I want to support AllahPundit.

208 jaunte  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:33:08pm

re: #192 M. Bensson-Levi

Here are a couple of the shots:
[Link: www.nevadasurveyor.com...]

209 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:33:24pm

re: #197 EmmmieG

Whoa! I just saw a comment deleted before my eyes. I've never seen the hand of Stinky before. It was...wow...so sudden.

Kind of like Cloverfield.

210 LGoPs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:33:39pm

re: #199 FurryOldGuyJeans

Well, if Bill says it, it must be something good, right?

Clinton wants 'more balance' on airwaves


Yeah you fuckstick...and I wanna know what the fuck you were doing when all the pieces for 9-11 were coming together.......sure as fuck weren't doing your job.

211 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:34:03pm

re: #199 FurryOldGuyJeans

Well, if Bill says it, it must be something good, right?

Clinton wants 'more balance' on airwaves

From the comments:

I want MORE BALANCE on College campuses. Can we make a trade?

Heh™.

212 Catttt  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:34:09pm

re: #209 Walter L. Newton

Kind of like Cloverfield.

Or like every other Friday at Merrill Lynch. /

213 Clemente  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:34:23pm

re: #161 victor_yugo

"Clue-impaired"

"Remarkably free from the ravages of intelligence"

"Unencumbered by reason"

214 Mich-again  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:34:26pm

re: #158 Throbert McGee

If the poll question were re-written so as to remind people of the "theistic evolution" concept, I'd bet a shiny new penny that the numbers for "I believe in evolution" would've been much, much higher.

I agree.

215 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:34:57pm

I am not very reassured with government officials saying no classified data was stolen:

67 computers missing from nuclear weapons lab

216 unclassifiable  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:35:02pm

re: #213 Clemente

"Unencumbered by reason"

Out of his depth in a parking lot puddle.

217 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:35:13pm

Good evening y'all, hope everyone is doing well tonight!

218 Dustyvet  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:35:21pm

Wait till Stinky gets so good at deleting trolls, that he gets them while they typing it out.

219 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:35:31pm

re: #212 Catttt

Or like every other Friday at Merrill Lynch. /

Bull!

220 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:35:42pm

re: #216 unclassifiable

Out of his depth in a parking lot puddle.

Not the brightest fish in the Happy Meal.

221 Catttt  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:35:45pm

re: #215 FurryOldGuyJeans

I am not very reassured with government officials saying no classified data was stolen:

67 computers missing from nuclear weapons lab

/bangs head against wall. Metaphorically.

222 BryanS  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:36:18pm

re: #207 Catttt

I wish I could hit an open registration at Hot Air. I signed up to that Word Press thing so I'd be ready. I want to support AllahPundit.

So you can combat some of this fricken' tripe ?

223 unclassifiable  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:36:48pm

re: #217 realwest

We are doing fine here.

THere are other folks who used to be here that will have to find their own happy spot.

224 Clemente  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:37:32pm

re: #218 Dustyvet

Wait till Stinky gets so good at deleting trolls, that he gets them while they typing it out.

Wouldn't like that a bit. I know when not to post what I've just typed. Most do, but not all.

225 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:37:42pm

I'm on vacation, beyotches. Ha!

226 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:38:04pm

re: #160 ploome hineni

OT

Hamas: Shalit not included in truce deal with Israel

sheer madness

I hate to say this, and I pray that I am wrong, but I believe that Gilad has passed away.

227 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:38:08pm

re: #222 BryanS

So you can combat some of this fricken' tripe ?

I'm confused again. Hot Air is anti-darwin?

228 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:38:21pm

A 13 year old father

BOY dad Alfie Patten yesterday admitted he does not know how much nappies cost — but said: “I think it’s a lot.”

[deleted]

229 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:38:31pm

re: #226 Alouette

I hate to say this, and I pray that I am wrong, but I believe that Gilad has passed away.

I also hate to say it, but I would be astonished if he were still alive.

230 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:38:42pm

re: #225 Occasional Reader

I'm on vacation, beyotches. Ha!

Where are you going?

231 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:38:52pm
232 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:39:02pm

re: #204 victor_yugo

I think Doc Edgerton was involved in that photography.

Yep.

233 WindHorse  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:39:03pm

re: #225 Occasional Reader

....well, we wasn't gonna say anything.... but - yeah.... that works.

: )

234 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:39:31pm

re: #228 FurryOldGuyJeans

A 13 year old father

[deleted]

I take everything in the Sun with a grain of salt, except for the fine reporting on Page Three.

235 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:39:57pm

re: #226 Alouette

I hate to say this, and I pray that I am wrong, but I believe that Gilad has passed away.

I agree, sorry to say. He was probably tortured and murdered long ago.

236 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:39:58pm

re: #229 Occasional Reader

I also hate to say it, but I would be astonished if he were still alive.

Those savages do not have the self control to keep him alive.

237 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:40:12pm

re: #230 MandyManners

Where are you going?

Punta del Este, Uruguay.

238 Wendya  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:40:23pm

re: #211 Spiny Norman

Heh™.

How about more balance on MSNBC?

239 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:40:37pm

re: #215 FurryOldGuyJeans
Without knowing the circumstances of each case, or the value of each individual to the Los Alamos nuclear weapons laboratory, I think everyone who had a computer at home and was not authorized to have it at their residence should be fired. Immediately. Moreover, the last person to use one of those stolen computers should be fired as well. Then locked up until they have been adequately, ah, debriefed by the appropriate authorities.
If they are cleared by those debriefings of wrong doing they can apply for reinstatement, but that kind of behaviour cannot be tolerated. Period.

240 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:40:46pm

re: #237 Occasional Reader

Punta del Este, Uruguay.

It's late summer there, right?

241 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:40:50pm

re: #218 Dustyvet

Wait till Stinky gets so good at deleting trolls, that he gets them while they typing it out.

At that point, we wiseacres would be advised to put the sarc tag first.

242 M. Bensson-Levi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:40:58pm

re: #204 victor_yugo

I think Doc Edgerton was involved in that photography.

I wouldn't be at all surprised, although his forte was high speed, high intensity strobe. I suppose an A-Bomb qualifies as that. :-)

243 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:41:07pm

re: #237 Occasional Reader

Punta del Este, Uruguay.

Whoa, that is high rent!

244 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:41:16pm

re: #207 Catttt

I wish I could hit an open registration at Hot Air. I signed up to that Word Press thing so I'd be ready. I want to support AllahPundit.

I have an account, and I love AllahPundit, (that Ed guy, not so much, can't stand him). But the users creep me out so I have yet to comment...

245 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:41:33pm

re: #238 Wendya

How about more balance on MSNBC?

Just to watch Keef Olberdunce's head to explode.

246 BryanS  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:41:36pm

re: #227 Walter L. Newton

I'm confused again. Hot Air is anti-darwin?

Its audience, yes. The first post even references Charles's head exploding . Its commentators not quite as much.

247 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:41:43pm

re: #240 MandyManners

It's late summer there, right?

Yep. So I can wear white again.

248 Dustyvet  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:41:50pm

Alfie, who is just 4ft tall...shut it Dusty:)

249 slokat  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:41:54pm

re: #140 Walter L. Newton


But, the world has turned Jesus into the point of a sword, to use and abuse as we see fit.

Hhmm, and the Prince of Peace also is quoted as saying, "...do not suppose that I bring peace to the world, but a sword".

250 Catttt  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:41:55pm

re: #222 BryanS

So you can combat some of this fricken' tripe ?

Well, yes.

251 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:41:57pm

Twenty meltdowns so far today! It's a record. Most of 'em Spencer fans spewing venom, and 6 creationists who really hate the idea of celebrating the birthday of history's greatest monster.

252 J.S.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:41:58pm

I don't believe any firm conclusions can be drawn from this type of poll. a big red flag is that 36 percent with "no opinion either way"...this is equivalent to having 36 percent not responding...You'd have to go back and ask "why?" Is it because they don't have enough information? is it because they haven't thought about it? is it because they don't care? or is it because they don't want to reveal what their opinion is? (I also don't like the wording of the question, "Do you believe in...")

253 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:42:13pm

re: #234 Walter L. Newton

I take everything in the Sun with a grain of salt, except for the fine reporting on Page Three.

We can always have OctoMom -- It Was a Very Goodyear (Pictures not safe any time)

254 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:42:14pm

re: #222 BryanS

So you can combat some of this fricken' tripe ?

Oh God, that's awful...

255 Mich-again  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:42:21pm

I think I may have uncovered something here. Our current Vice President Joe Biden is a former King. I think that makes him Constitutionally Ineligible to hold office.

256 Catttt  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:42:42pm

re: #244 Basho

I have an account, and I love AllahPundit, (that Ed guy, not so much, can't stand him). But the users creep me out so I have yet to comment...

I must admit, I tend to run out of air about a third of the way into those threads.

257 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:42:45pm

My grandkids are visiting from Toronto. They are completely wired from the car trip and it's hard to peel them off the walls and ceilings to put them in bed. Their mommy is giving them goodnight potchies now.

258 OldLineTexan  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:42:54pm

re: #251 Charles

Twenty meltdowns so far today! It's a record. Most of 'em Spencer fans spewing venom, and 6 creationists who really hate the idea of celebrating the birthday of history's greatest monster.

I did not know today was Barney the Dinosaur's birthday.

259 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:43:02pm
260 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:43:19pm

re: #244 Basho

I have an account, and I love AllahPundit, (that Ed guy, not so much, can't stand him). But the users creep me out so I have yet to comment...

The semi-deranged Freepers are why I rarely post there anymore, too.

261 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:43:20pm

re: #251 Charles

Twenty meltdowns so far today! It's a record. Most of 'em Spencer fans spewing venom, and 6 creationists who really hate the idea of celebrating the birthday of history's greatest monster.

Are you just so proud you could have so many, Charles? ;)

262 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:43:27pm

re: #223 unclassifiable
And I hope that they do.

263 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:43:37pm

re: #243 Alouette

Whoa, that is high rent!

I managed to slip an OR & Wife Punta del Este Vacation Subsidy into the Stimulus Package. And no one noticed. Suckers!

264 unclassifiable  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:44:05pm

re: #251 Charles

Aw crap. You didn't really want to be popular anyway:)

265 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:44:22pm
266 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:44:30pm

re: #253 FurryOldGuyJeans

We can always have OctoMom -- It Was a Very Goodyear (Pictures not safe any time)

Oy to the Vey.

Great Caesar's Ghost.

And Holy Shit.

267 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:44:36pm

re: #242 M. Bensson-Levi


I wouldn't be at all surprised, although his forte was high speed, high intensity strobe. I suppose an A-Bomb qualifies as that. :-)

Cool Edgerton images here.

268 Charles Johnson  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:44:59pm

The kooks are begging Allahpundit to stop posting evolution threads at Hot Air. Gotta love it.

269 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:45:00pm

re: #249 slokat

Hhmm, and the Prince of Peace also is quoted as saying, "...do not suppose that I bring peace to the world, but a sword".

Fine, I'm talking about the Inquisition and blatantly Christian inspired anti-semitism and genocide. Are you talking about the same Jesus as I am?

270 BlueCanuck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:45:03pm

re: #217 realwest

Good evening y'all, hope everyone is doing well tonight!

Hey rw, doing fine hear. But I think winter is about to make a resurgence after the past week of our February thaw.

/not at work, so don't panic yet. ;)

271 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:45:10pm

The spencer thread has been like a microcosm of evolution itself. The thread is the environmental pressure, and the banned kind of selected themselves for extinction.

272 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:45:19pm
273 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:45:41pm

re: #226 Alouette
I agree with you, except I would say that Gilad has been murdered. Passed away is just too gentle an expression to be used when talking about people who die at the hands of Hamas.

274 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:45:42pm

re: #266 Occasional Reader

Oy to the Vey.

Great Caesar's Ghost.

And Holy Shit.

Just think, taxpayers will get to support that.

275 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:46:07pm

re: #247 Occasional Reader

Yep. So I can wear white again.

And, linen. Lots of linen.

276 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:46:08pm

Is robert still ranting at HA- or is he done for the night?

277 Mich-again  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:46:22pm

re: #251 Charles

Twenty meltdowns so far today! It's a record. Most of 'em Spencer fans spewing venom, and 6 creationists who really hate the idea of celebrating the birthday of history's greatest monster.

Spencer and Fjordman sitting in a tree...

278 Catttt  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:46:27pm

re: #254 Basho

Oh God, that's awful...

So - the posters basically think that if ID is not "debated" in science class, it's not fair. When did science become a debating society? I thought it was based on the scientific method. Silly me. We always did experiments in science class. We debated in speech class and at debate meets.

279 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:46:38pm

re: #268 Charles

The kooks are begging Allahpundit to stop posting evolution threads at Hot Air. Gotta love it.

Ugh... I feel bad for him. Last time I check the general consensus there was the thermodynamics debunks evolution........................

280 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:46:59pm

re: #276 Sharmuta

Is robert still ranting at HA- or is he done for the night?

I think he needs a spittle and foam refill. He's a few gallons short right now.

281 Dustyvet  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:46:59pm

re: #272 Iron Fist

Today was Jimmy Carter's birthday? Who knew?

Who cares? Put Jimmy did enjoy the card from Mr. Peanut, and the singing telegram from Hamas.

282 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:47:12pm

re: #225 Occasional Reader
"I'm on vacation, beyotches. Ha!"
So why is that any different than any other time, O.R.?
:)

283 TooDamNice  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:47:39pm

re: #10 victor_yugo

Hey, in Christianity, 1 + 1 + 1 = 1.

Well.

284 jaunte  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:47:45pm

This is too good to pass up:

Out of work
Out of luck
Cold and hungry
Without a buck
But now is The Age Of Obama

Savings gone
Dreams are dust
Hope is fading
And banks are bust
But now is The Age Of Obama

More lyrics, and music video at the link:

[Link: dancleary.typepad.com...]

285 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:47:46pm

re: #271 Sharmuta

The spencer thread has been like a microcosm of evolution itself. The thread is the environmental pressure, and the banned kind of selected themselves for extinction.

Sharm - as I said before, I was reading the JW thread and they were saying that they were going to go over to LGF and self destruct. And others users were asking to give them an hours notice so they could come on over here and watch.

I spent years on JW, and eventually left because of the blatant racist remarks against Muslims.

286 J.S.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:48:09pm

re: #271 Sharmuta

I sort of liked that "maladapted" one...(aptly named, since the mutant didn't survive long enough to even make a post...now that's mal-formed.)

287 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:48:32pm

re: #283 TooDamNice

Well.

Dry as a bone and empty again, I see.

288 unclassifiable  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:48:33pm

re: #278 Catttt

I tell you what.

Let them debate it in philosophy class where they could really get their ass handed to them.

289 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:49:24pm

re: #278 Catttt

So - the posters basically think that if ID is not "debated" in science class, it's not fair. When did science become a debating society? I thought it was based on the scientific method. Silly me. We always did experiments in science class. We debated in speech class and at debate meets.


Well- science is a debate of sorts, but empirical evidence is always the trump card.

290 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:49:44pm

re: #288 unclassifiable

I tell you what.

Let them debate it in philosophy class where they could really get their ass handed to them.

They don't want a fair fight. They want to win.

291 BlueCanuck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:49:52pm

re: #253 FurryOldGuyJeans

We can always have OctoMom -- It Was a Very Goodyear (Pictures not safe any time)

Just imagine the stretch marks. :p

292 M. Bensson-Levi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:50:09pm

re: #208 jaunte

Here are a couple of the shots:
[Link: www.nevadasurveyor.com...]

You are absolutely Da Man! Thanks. The first photo that I mentioned was a frame, or two, before the first photo that you so generously provided for us. Great stuff, huh?

It never fails to amaze me what human beings have accomplished.

293 TooDamNice  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:50:11pm

re: #278 Catttt

So - the posters basically think that if ID is not "debated" in science class, it's not fair. When did science become a debating society? I thought it was based on the scientific method. Silly me. We always did experiments in science class. We debated in speech class and at debate meets.

There is no debating in science? There is only one theory to answer each question?

294 Catttt  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:50:17pm

There was a comment on that vile genocidal facebook thing that called us "the liberal minions of Charles Johnson." That, for me at least, is a first. I've been called a minion before, of course, but not a liberal minion.

295 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:50:32pm

re: #278 Catttt

So - the posters basically think that if ID is not "debated" in science class, it's not fair. When did science become a debating society? I thought it was based on the scientific method. Silly me. We always did experiments in science class. We debated in speech class and at debate meets.

Not every scientific posit is experimentally testable by the technology available at its inception. The Bose-Einstein Condensate was predicted, but never accomplished, for 70 years.

296 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:50:38pm

re: #291 BlueCanuck

Just imagine the stretch marks. :p

NO thanks.

Really.

I mean it.

297 aussie_dave  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:50:42pm

OK, I am sorry, I have to come out. I don't believe in Evolution. I do believe in Natural Selection. But Evolution, no, it doesn't make sense.

I also don't believe in Man Made Global Warming.

Nor did I believe in Y2K.

Neither did I believe that GWB was as bad a man, a stupid person, as awful a president, as the media always informed me.

Not either do I believe that Iran is pursuing Nuclear Energy for peaceful purposes.

With all my unbelief, and my different views, what will happen to me?

298 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:51:00pm

re: #285 Walter L. Newton

Sharm - as I said before, I was reading the JW thread and they were saying that they were going to go over to LGF and self destruct. And others users were asking to give them an hours notice so they could come on over here and watch.

Internet splodeydopes?

I spent years on JW, and eventually left because of the blatant racist remarks against Muslims.

It's bad enough that we have to constantly remind the moonbats that Islam is not a race...

299 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:51:36pm

re: #293 TooDamNice

There is no debating in science? There is only one theory to answer each question?

When you get a clue about science, then come back and try talking with the adults.

300 Mich-again  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:51:43pm

re: #291 BlueCanuck

Just imagine the stretch marks. :p

I am going to hurl now. bye bye bye...

301 jaunte  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:51:43pm

re: #292 M. Bensson-Levi

Really amazing stuff. I had not seen those before.

302 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:51:46pm

re: #298 Spiny Norman

It's bad enough that we have to constantly remind the moonbats that Islam is not a race...

Yes, it is. To the bottom.

303 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:52:35pm

re: #298 Spiny Norman

It's bad enough that we have to constantly remind the moonbats that Islam is not a race...

Er, JW is mainly conservatives, not moonbats.

304 Dan G.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:52:38pm

re: #268 Charles

Gonna loan him The Hammer?

305 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:52:39pm

re: #293 TooDamNice

There is no debating in science? There is only one theory to answer each question?

Science is a method. It's like showing up to a crime scene and figuring out what happened. Using tools and working out the puzzles. The debates only occur when the most likely theory is being worked out.

306 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:52:49pm

re: #302 victor_yugo

Yes, it is. To the bottom.

Gene pool removal doesn't count.

307 BignJames  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:53:04pm

re: #297 aussie_dave

You'll prolly burn in hell.

/

308 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:53:05pm

re: #251 Charles I have to say Charles that 14 folks who were Spencer "fans" all seemed to me to be what I've called "sleepers"; that is, folks who register here, stay here without commenting or rarely commenting, and then they pounce on you. It was gettting to the point today that I hardly had to click their avatar - usually just the green football - to verify that.
We seem to get some of those on creationsist threads too.
Who the hell has the time (never mind the inclination) to register here, stay below your (and our) radar screens, until some day they get what they think is an opportunity to take gratuitous shots at you?
Some folks really need to get a life.

309 Occasional Reader  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:53:14pm

re: #268 Charles

The kooks are begging Allahpundit to stop posting evolution threads at Hot Air. Gotta love it.

I have trouble loving it. It's... depressing. Hot Air was founded to be explicitly anti-idiotarian. Sheesh.

310 Mich-again  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:53:20pm

re: #297 aussie_dave

OK, I am sorry, I have to come out. I don't believe in Evolution. I do believe in Natural Selection. But Evolution, no, it doesn't make sense.

I am not sure what you mean there. Do you think evolution precludes a creator?

311 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:53:26pm

re: #303 Walter L. Newton

Er, JW is mainly conservatives, not moonbats.

JW is not conservative.

312 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:53:30pm

re: #297 aussie_dave

With all my unbelief, and my different views, what will happen to me?

Probably nothing. That must eat you up inside...

313 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:53:45pm

re: #303 Walter L. Newton

Er, JW is mainly conservatives, not moonbats.

That was my point.

314 victor_yugo  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:54:14pm

Okay, time to install a new kernel. Maybe back in a while, maybe not.

315 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:54:17pm

re: #299 FurryOldGuyJeans

Hey nice avatar. I hope I look that good when I'm your age.

316 TooDamNice  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:54:25pm

re: #299 FurryOldGuyJeans

When you get a clue about science, then come back and try talking with the adults.

I forgot. Insults are part of the scientific debate. So there is only one theory for things?

317 BryanS  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:54:42pm

re: #284 jaunte

This is too good to pass up:

More lyrics, and music video at the link:

[Link: dancleary.typepad.com...]


Oh god...my ears are bleeding. I should have listened and not played it with the volume up. Like moth to a flame I am.

That youtube clip is right up there with this one.

318 aussie_dave  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:54:42pm

re: #310 Mich-again

No, I do not believe Evolution precludes a creator.

319 M. Bensson-Levi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:54:48pm

re: #204 victor_yugo

I think Doc Edgerton was involved in that photography.

#208 jaunte confirms that you are correct, Doc Edgerton was the man behind these photos.

320 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:54:49pm

re: #273 realwest

I agree with you, except I would say that Gilad has been murdered. Passed away is just too gentle an expression to be used when talking about people who die at the hands of Hamas.

Well obviously he has been murdered, it's not like he died of old age or anything.

321 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:55:13pm

re: #311 FurryOldGuyJeans

JW is not conservative.

Explain. It's certainly not can't we all get along liberals?

322 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:55:32pm
323 BignJames  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:55:43pm

re: #316 TooDamNice

I forgot. Insults are part of the scientific debate. So there is only one theory for things?


Thing Theory....lookit up

324 unclassifiable  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:55:44pm

re: #297 aussie_dave

So far, nothing.

But I am interested (truly -- not baiting you) in hearing you explain the fine points in how you differentiate Natural Selection and Evolution...

... if you want to do that.

325 Dan G.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:56:03pm

re: #316 TooDamNice

He requests that you get up to date on the facts, there's nothing insulting about that; scientists do this to one another if one is blindingly ignorant. Nice try. Waaaaaanh! I'm a victim....

326 MandyManners  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:56:20pm

re: #316 TooDamNice

I forgot. Insults are part of the scientific debate. So there is only one theory for things?

Are you thinking that ID is a theory?

327 Walter L. Newton  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:56:33pm

re: #313 Spiny Norman

That was my point.

Ok, got it now. I seem to be having trouble with the short, glib comments tonight.

328 Mich-again  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:56:46pm

re: #318 aussie_dave

No, I do not believe Evolution precludes a creator.

What is the disconnect between evolution and natural selection? You don't believe in genetic mutations?

329 slokat  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:56:50pm

re: #269 Walter L. Newton

Fine, I'm talking about the Inquisition and blatantly Christian inspired anti-semitism and genocide. Are you talking about the same Jesus as I am?

Depends, laughing Jesus, warm fuzzy loving Jesus, I am the path Jesus, separating the sheep from the goats Jesus...

Sharmuta alluded to knowing which of us are going to be surprised, maybe it would be better to ask her?

330 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:56:54pm
331 dapperdave  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:57:00pm

re: #291 BlueCanuck

Gross...TMZ? now I got to scan my computer for HIV!

332 Kosh's Shadow  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:57:07pm

re: #320 Alouette

Well obviously he has been murdered, it's not like he died of old age or anything.

And this is why Israel should not release any terrorists. Or if they do, Ham-ass should be told "Shalit comes back alive, or we kill everyone released, as well as everyone who comes to pick them up."

333 aussie_dave  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:57:07pm

re: #312 Basho

Probably nothing. That must eat you up inside...

Actually, no, It never occured to me that I had to have an internal emotional response.

But thank you, that is something to think about. (?)

334 Killer Tomato  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:57:17pm

Whoa!
I just finished reading it and poof it was deleted!
Never seen that before.

335 BryanS  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:57:44pm

re: #320 Alouette

Well obviously he has been murdered, it's not like he died of old age or anything.

That won't stop Hamas from using him as a negotiation chip.

336 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:57:52pm

re: #270 BlueCanuck
Hey Blue! LOL! No, I won't panic, I promise! And yeah, it seems that we're gonna spring back into late winter here too next week.
Damn, and with the highs in the 70's this week I was gonna get a head start on my tan!

337 BlueCanuck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:57:55pm

re: #316 TooDamNice

I forgot. Insults are part of the scientific debate. So there is only one theory for things?

Laying the green smoke. Do I have a fire solution?

338 unclassifiable  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:57:57pm

Did anti-matter hit #322?

339 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:58:03pm

re: #294 Catttt

There was a comment on that vile genocidal facebook thing that called us "the liberal minions of Charles Johnson." That, for me at least, is a first. I've been called a minion before, of course, but not a liberal minion.

Fascists think that those who support Liberty are liberals. Coming from them, I'll take it as a compliment.

340 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:58:09pm

re: #316 TooDamNice

I forgot. Insults are part of the scientific debate. So there is only one theory for things?

No, insults are for childish remarks.

Science is not a debating society. alGore and the Discovery Institute haven't a clue what the scientific principles really are.

341 CorruptedSynapses  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:58:41pm

re: #299 FurryOldGuyJeans

When you get a clue about science, then come back and try talking with the adults.

There's a lot of debate in science. People who want to treat a method of inquiry like a religion are the ones who should get a clue.

342 Mich-again  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:58:43pm

re: #339 Sharmuta

I have finally determined I am a radical centrist.

343 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:58:46pm

re: #327 Walter L. Newton

Ok, got it now. I seem to be having trouble with the short, glib comments tonight.

I've had bronchitis for for than two weeks now, but am slowly recovering. My snarky sense of humor seems to be returning, too, if not completely.

;^)

344 Basho  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:58:55pm

re: #333 aussie_dave

Sorry, I didn't mean to be snarky. I went overboard with that.

345 jaunte  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:59:00pm

re: #317 BryanS

It's nice the way the singer just blends those flat notes into the song like they belong there...

346 lobo91  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:59:07pm

re: #317 BryanS

Oh god...my ears are bleeding. I should have listened and not played it with the volume up. Like moth to a flame I am.

Wow...I assumed that was some kind of song parody.

Boy, was I surprised...

347 BlueCanuck  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:59:33pm

re: #331 dapperdave

Gross...TMZ? now I got to scan my computer for HIV!

Relax, your puter is safe. It was an invitro solution.

/too mechanical for the results as far as I am concerned.

348 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:59:34pm

re: #343 Spiny Norman

"for for" s/b "for more"...

349 jcw46  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:59:37pm

In case anybody cares, I down dinged a few comments because it seemed to me that the conclusion to be drawn was:

Some creationists are christian therefore all christians are creationists therefore all christians are stoopid.

This is faulty logic and insulting even as a joke.

This is similar to this:

all nihilists are atheists therefore some atheists are nihilists therefore atheism is nihilism.

This also is faulty logic and not funny.

350 The Shadow Do  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:59:49pm

re: #251 Charles

Twenty meltdowns so far today! It's a record. Most of 'em Spencer fans spewing venom, and 6 creationists who really hate the idea of celebrating the birthday of history's greatest monster.

Charles, counting coup. A warrior's warrior.

351 BryanS  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 8:59:49pm

re: #345 jaunte

ROFLMAO

352 Spiny Norman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:00:05pm

Whoops! The First 48 is starting.

BBL.

353 Catttt  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:00:28pm

re: #279 Basho

Ugh... I feel bad for him. Last time I check the general consensus there was the thermodynamics debunks evolution........................

Here is a great little page that addresses that and pretty much puts it to bed, plus it is written in layman's terms - originally posted in 1996, and reposted recently on Dr. Craigen's current Web site.

Entropy and Evolution

by Doug Craigen, PhD (physics)

354 Dan G.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:00:43pm

re: #332 Kosh's Shadow

Since the Israeli's have bartered in the past for the remains of those kidnapped, and its easier to keep a corpse hostage...

I'm sorry for his family's loss, but Israel must stop this type of bartering, or they'll encourage more attempts from the savages.

355 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:00:45pm

re: #341 CorruptedSynapses

There's a lot of debate in science. People who want to treat a method of inquiry like a religion are the ones who should get a clue.

Inquiry is not debate. Discussion is not debate. Science is not Religion, nor is Religion Science.

356 lobo91  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:00:47pm

re: #328 Mich-again

What is the disconnect between evolution and natural selection? You don't believe in genetic mutations?

How could anyone see Harry Reid, Barney Frank, and Nancy Pelosi on TV and not believe in genetic mutations?

357 jcw46  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:00:49pm

re: #255 Mich-again

I think I may have uncovered something here. Our current Vice President Joe Biden is a former King. I think that makes him Constitutionally Ineligible to hold office.


Well we know he's a JACK ass.

358 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:01:03pm
359 Wendya  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:01:04pm

re: #278 Catttt

We always did experiments in science class. We debated in speech class and at debate meets.

That's one of the problems with teaching evolution. It's not like chemistry where you can run an experiment and obtain a correct result if done properly. Some people have a need to see a process in action before they can accept the results.

360 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:02:02pm

re: #342 Mich-again

I have finally determined I am a radical centrist.

I'm an extreme moderate.

361 Dan G.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:02:06pm

re: #342 Mich-again

Extra-medium, eh?

362 unclassifiable  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:03:40pm

re: #349 jcw46

Why the hell did you do that to mine?

I was talking to Mandy about the folks who do not believe in science.

363 Mich-again  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:03:52pm

re: #341 CorruptedSynapses

What do you mean by "method of inquiry"? I have seen plenty who think the "I don't understand your theory" as reason enough to support a completely ridiculous counter theory. But that doesn't make their rantings a "method of inquiry".

364 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:04:05pm

re: #332 Kosh's Shadow

And this is why Israel should not release any terrorists. Or if they do, Ham-ass should be told "Shalit comes back alive, or we kill everyone released, as well as everyone who comes to pick them up."

Olmert traded a thousand terrorists for 2 dead Jews.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

365 Wendya  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:04:06pm

re: #293 TooDamNice

There is no debating in science? There is only one theory to answer each question?

Of course not. You are free to advance any theory you wish but you must provide evidence to back it up.

"God did it" is not evidence.

366 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:04:11pm

re: #338 unclassifiable

Did anti-matter hit #322?

Anti-matter AND a rogue temporal rift nexused!

Karma: 0
Golem33
(Logged in)
Registered since: Jan 17, 2009 at 11:05 am
No. of comments posted: 0
No. of links posted: 0

367 formercorpsman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:04:22pm

re: #354 Dan G.

Sadly, I agree.

We don't require 1400 years worth of examples to recognize some players have no intention of coming to the table in earnest.

My feeling, if you put forth the effort to go to war, you go to win hands down.

Total domination. This disproportionate shit has got to stop.

War is ugly. Overwhelming force has the ability to actually make it less ugly.

368 aussie_dave  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:04:54pm

re: #328 Mich-again

What is the disconnect between evolution and natural selection? You don't believe in genetic mutations?


On Natural Selection ("NS") versus Evolution. I can readily accept that NS occurs. It is occurring right before our very eyes in the Western world where changes in diet (fast food/grains/high calorie- low nutrition foods) are changing the population, and quickly. Some expamples of the NA process are: Increasing Obesity, higher infertility, age onset diseases in children, which, without intervention, would cause people who are unable to adapt, to die out . Hence the ones who can adapt to these new diets will survive and breed and prosper. Of course, we intervene with radical surgery, in vitro fertilisation, drugs etc. But that is NA at work,is it not?

So, we have all this NA going on, changing the human population. But at the end of the day, we are still humans. If the Ozone layer disappeared, and only very dark skinned people could survive, and the most dark ones only continued to breed, wouldnt they still be human?

That is how I see NA versus Evolution.

369 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:05:24pm

re: #278 Catttt Cattt, Cattt, Cattt - you don't understand. In a free society, everyone should have the right to be heard, even in the science classes or labs, mathematics and all the rest.
Not only that, but ALL opinions are equally valid. This is what public education has come to in this country, thank you NEA and parents who don't care about their children's education.

370 J.S.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:05:32pm

re: #341 CorruptedSynapses

Of course there's debate and contention and arguments -- but it's conducted at the university, and post-doc level. High school teachers of science should not be about "debating" theories (that's the route the DI people wish to go, so that then they can demand that Evolutionary Theory be taught as "speculative" -- and then cause high school students to doubt science and go with "creationism" as a "theory" of equal merit.).

371 Dan G.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:05:53pm

re: #367 formercorpsman

Paging General Sherman.

372 aussie_dave  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:05:55pm

Sorry where NA please read NS. (Yes I didn't use preview)

373 jcw46  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:06:32pm

re: #268 Charles

The kooks are begging Allahpundit to stop posting evolution threads at Hot Air. Gotta love it.

At first, here at LGF, I was mostly irritated about the creationist threads because I thought there were other things to discuss but then I accepted that this is Charles' house and he can do what he will here. I am a guest.
Then I began to become interested and sometimes irked but mostly it made me do some research and reach a place within that allows me to accept what has been proved and hope for other "revelations" to show how these events came to be.

374 aussie_dave  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:06:54pm

re: #344 Basho

Sorry, I didn't mean to be snarky. I went overboard with that.

No problem thanks

375 M. Bensson-Levi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:07:12pm

re: #259 Iron Fist

Cool! That would be really neat. Being born when I was, I missed the oppertunity to get to see a live above-ground test (or underground test, for that matter). It had to be impressive. 40 pounds of C-4 is pretty impressive, and they aren't even within a few orders of magnitude of each other.

Check out the photos that jaunte linked to @ #208. One day, when I'm not so tired, I'll tell you a funny story about a sh*t load of C4, set by a non-demo man. Me. The stuff myths are made of.

376 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:07:56pm

re: #373 jcw46

At first, here at LGF, I was mostly irritated about the creationist threads because I thought there were other things to discuss but then I accepted that this is Charles' house and he can do what he will here. I am a guest.
Then I began to become interested and sometimes irked but mostly it made me do some research and reach a place within that allows me to accept what has been proved and hope for other "revelations" to show how these events came to be.

Amazing how repeated application of anti-idiotarian tends to make one crave a bit more knowledge, ain't it.

377 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:09:20pm

re: #284 jaunte
Hi ya juante! I got an e-mail from an LGFer today, which was a link to an audio recording of a woman who was leaving a message for a car dealer that was trying to repossess her car. She said "Well y'all I only owe $2800 on it, it's in the shop and will cost me $800 to fix it, so y'all go ahead and get it from the shop if you want to; not all of us are RICH you know, but I will be, because Obama gonna make me rich!" that was the end of the message!

378 Ayeless in Ghazi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:10:24pm

Heh.

Night folks:)

379 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:11:00pm

re: #285 Walter L. Newton
Hey Walter! Hope you're well tonight. Last night I thought you said you were gonna e-mail Mr. Spencer (again) and ask him about whether or not he put in that Facebook entry. Did you e-mail him and did he respond to you?

380 CorruptedSynapses  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:11:04pm

re: #355 FurryOldGuyJeans

Inquiry is not debate. Discussion is not debate. Science is not Religion, nor is Religion Science.

I'm not sure where I said either of those things, although you seemed to be implying that scientific data is handed down in a Mount Sinai-esque manner.

There is a lot of debate between various labs as far as ideas and models go. For an example off the top of my head, whether individual thoughts are the product of a single action potential pathway, or the result of a cohesive electrical pattern throughout the entire brain. Whether you want to engage in semantics and call it discussion or debate isn't very important to me, I think debate works just fine.

381 Alberta Oil Peon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:11:05pm

Evolution is not something you "believe in", for f***'s sake. That's code for taking something on faith, which is perfectly acceptable for matters metaphysical, but not for matters of fact.

Evolution is an observable fact. Get used to it; it ain't going to change. Natural selection is a scientific theory (meaning a well-reasoned and well-supported argument) that proposes a mechanism for evolution. Even if natural selection were to be totally discredited, which is about as likely as Obama becoming fiscally conservative, evolution would still stand as an observable fact.

382 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:11:06pm

re: #377 realwest

Hi ya juante! I got an e-mail from an LGFer today, which was a link to an audio recording of a woman who was leaving a message for a car dealer that was trying to repossess her car. She said "Well y'all I only owe $2800 on it, it's in the shop and will cost me $800 to fix it, so y'all go ahead and get it from the shop if you want to; not all of us are RICH you know, but I will be, because Obama gonna make me rich!" that was the end of the message!

The Age of Entitlement has Dawned. *shakes head*

383 Mich-again  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:12:01pm

re: #368 aussie_dave

I think using humans is a particularly bad example of natural selection. We interrupt natural selection at every turn. We willingly subsidize the existence of the nonviable to the point that now the unproductive have a higher fertility rate than the productive. Long term prospects, not good.

384 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:13:41pm
385 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:13:49pm

re: #380 CorruptedSynapses

Debate is for the labs, where a solid foundation in science is already achieved, not for a high school science class which is for learning the basics of science.

The Disco people want to wedge theology into the science curriculum.

386 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:13:59pm

re: #297 aussie_dave
Well you got dinged down by four people (as I write this) though I'm not sure for which of your beliefs each was dinging you down.

387 formercorpsman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:14:00pm

re: #377 realwest

Was it the impression, she was being serious?

388 Alberta Oil Peon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:14:28pm

re: #11 Occasional Reader

I'd rather have intimate relations with a trilobite than watch American Idol.

Coming soon to a package store near you, the new-old snack food: "Trilo-bytes". They aren't 300 million years old, they just taste that way.

389 jcw46  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:15:02pm

re: #362 unclassifiable

Why the hell did you do that to mine?

I was talking to Mandy about the folks who do not believe in science.


Oops my bad. You were quoting the guy I down dinged. I have erased that misding.

390 Salamantis  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:16:04pm

re: #316 TooDamNice

I forgot. Insults are part of the scientific debate. So there is only one theory for things?

There is only one authentic and genuine empirical science theory for the profusion of genetically related terrestrial species, and it is evolution via random genetic mutation and nonrandom environmental selection. All of the empirical evidence supports it. There is no empirical evidence whatsoever that contradicts evolution, or that supports any alternative, which is why there are no real alternative theories; only religious dogmas and untestable metaphysical suppositions based upon them that are endeavoring to masquerade as scientific theories by cloaking themselves in pseudoscientific jargon, and completely and utterly failing at the task.

391 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:16:34pm
392 J.S.  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:18:08pm

re: #383 Mich-again

Carl Zimmer in the text, "Evolution" discusses "Unnatural Selection" when referring to human cultures...he's also stated that "in some ways, cultural evolution is more Lamarckian than Darwinian" (p. 309)

393 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:18:50pm

re: #320 Alouette
No, I wasn't suggesting that, I was saying that saying he passed away was too gentle a way to describe that Hamas deliberately killed him - murdered him.

394 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:18:56pm

re: #391 Iron Fist

That's devolution, an ever increasing rush to the bottom. Give them a few more generations, and the Democrats will be reproducing by fission like all the other bacteria.

Hey, hey, hey! Quit dissing bacteria. Yersinia pestis spreads bubonic plague and can decimate world population with disease. Dems just want to spread economic ruin and decimate capitalism with socialism.

395 capitalist piglet  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:19:08pm

re: #276 Sharmuta

Is robert still ranting at HA- or is he done for the night?

He came back for a few minutes earlier this evening, but (unless I overlooked it in the mess over there) he didn't give me an answer regarding his assertion that Charles and Cato cooked this up just to get his foot in the snare.

Not to worry. His fan club is handling it. They seem to be trying to bore me to death by ignoring the question and insulting me.

396 formercorpsman  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:19:20pm

re: #384 Iron Fist

Yes, exactly. Another caveat with an enemy like Hamas, Hezbollah, Al queda, is that they have shown the depth of their depravity amongst their own.

The Japanese admitted defeat, and unconditional surrender. They assumed membership with western civilization.

Truly, why I made the statement some weeks ago, that Israel needs to remember, when they say they want you dead, they want you dead.

397 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:19:56pm

re: #395 capitalist piglet

He came back for a few minutes earlier this evening, but (unless I overlooked it in the mess over there) he didn't give me an answer regarding his assertion that Charles and Cato cooked this up just to get his foot in the snare.

Not to worry. His fan club is handling it. They seem to be trying to bore me to death by ignoring the question and insulting me.

RS gots lots of pig's bladder flappers, eh?

398 Catttt  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:20:17pm

re: #359 Wendya

That's one of the problems with teaching evolution. It's not like chemistry where you can run an experiment and obtain a correct result if done properly. Some people have a need to see a process in action before they can accept the results.

I think a lot of that has to do with not dipping below a very surface understanding of the given subject. Even if people can see a chem experiment work, that doesn't mean they understand it beyond that finite experiment, in a very physical sense rather than a theoretical sense.

If they need to see it to believe it, then how can they possibly accept atomic theory or relativity? Plus, many of those same incredulous people want to bring the supernatural into science class, which by its very nature cannot be proven (which is why there are no ID experiments).

399 M. Bensson-Levi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:20:52pm

re: #353 Catttt

Here is a great little page that addresses that and pretty much puts it to bed, plus it is written in layman's terms - originally posted in 1996, and reposted recently on Dr. Craigen's current Web site.

Entropy and Evolution

by Doug Craigen, PhD (physics)

I was writing this essay on entropy, but then it got all disorganized and fell apart.

400 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:21:49pm

re: #398 Catttt

I think a lot of that has to do with not dipping below a very surface understanding of the given subject. Even if people can see a chem experiment work, that doesn't mean they understand it beyond that finite experiment, in a very physical sense rather than a theoretical sense.

If they need to see it to believe it, then how can they possibly accept atomic theory or relativity? Plus, many of those same incredulous people want to bring the supernatural into science class, which by its very nature cannot be proven (which is why there are no ID experiments).

Quantum theory would be a total mind blast if they can't understand atomic theory or relativity.

401 CorruptedSynapses  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:21:57pm

re: #363 Mich-again

What do you mean by "method of inquiry"? I have seen plenty who think the "I don't understand your theory" as reason enough to support a completely ridiculous counter theory. But that doesn't make their rantings a "method of inquiry".

That's true. I think there is plenty of good-natured debate between respected scientists in regards to the particular model they support when the model is not well characterized yet. I also think that a lot of scientists have models which they logically think are accurate, but which cannot be tested due to technological constraints. Sometime they even end up being accurate after that person is dead.

I just get annoyed when people act as though "science" is some sort of entity that hands out edicts about the "truth of reality", rather than treating it as a method to examine the world around us.

402 Salamantis  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:22:02pm

re: #297 aussie_dave

OK, I am sorry, I have to come out. I don't believe in Evolution. I do believe in Natural Selection. But Evolution, no, it doesn't make sense.

I also don't believe in Man Made Global Warming.

Nor did I believe in Y2K.

Neither did I believe that GWB was as bad a man, a stupid person, as awful a president, as the media always informed me.

Not either do I believe that Iran is pursuing Nuclear Energy for peaceful purposes.

With all my unbelief, and my different views, what will happen to me?

Do you believe in genetic mutation? Because if you do, you believe in evolution, because genetic mutation + natural selection = evolution.

Glad to help you along on this voyage of intellectual self-'discovery.'

403 Alberta Oil Peon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:23:34pm

re: #88 Mich-again

The problem with a poll like this is that so many people don't even know enough to understand the question. I would hazard a guess that many people think the theory of evolution leads to the ultimate conclusion there was no creator involved at all. So when someone asks them, "Do you believe in evolution?", they hear "Are you an atheist?".

Which is exactly what the DI and YEC types would like you to to think. Creating a false dichotomy is what they are all about.

404 M. Bensson-Levi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:25:48pm

re: #384 Iron Fist

At the end of the day, mercy to the merciless is no mercy. Ruthlessness in dealing with the merciless is kindness. By which I mean that in the long run, utterly crushing your opponents as quickly and efficiently as possible is not only best for you, but is better for them as well. If you totally mop the floor with them once, and never have to do it again, you'll kill fewer of them than if you do a half-assed job of it ten or twelve times over 50-60 years.

All of which is just gravy. Protecting your side is best accomplished by crushing the enemy utterly and completely, so thoroughly that anyone in the surviving generation that so much as looks at a gun winds up puking their guts out from sheer terror.

Can't add a thing to that.

405 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:26:19pm

re: #401 CorruptedSynapses

The only edict science and scientists can put out about reality is "here is what we currently understand, subject to the results of the next experiment or discovery."

406 [deleted]  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:26:53pm
407 Catttt  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:27:25pm

re: #399 M. Bensson-Levi

I was writing this essay on entropy, but then it got all disorganized and fell apart.

Ha.

My favorite Dr. Who line - he comes in a room that's REALLY messy, looks around, and says "Entropy."

408 M. Bensson-Levi  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:28:37pm

NYTOL

409 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:28:43pm

re: #366 FurryOldGuyJeans
Yep, see my #308 above.

410 capitalist piglet  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:29:11pm

re: #397 FurryOldGuyJeans

RS gots lots of pig's bladder flappers, eh?

I didn't realize how hostile people on HotAir were to Allah, and to Charles. I'm genuinely shocked. Those people are ready to go to war for that guy. I wasn't at all aggressive with R/S - I thought I was more than fair, and just asked a genuine question - but they quickly IDed me as an enemy and started challenging me, instead of just expecting him to answer.

Some of them seem to see absolutely nothing wrong with flipping Allah off while using the site. It's just bizarre.

I've said it before, but I think HotAir has seen a large influx of Freepers in the past few years. More and more, it's taking on that tone.

411 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:29:52pm

re: #406 Iron Fist

(I can never remember the name of the primary target, but she was in it).

Kokura.

412 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:30:07pm

re: #367 formercorpsman
Hello my friend! I have to say that I've NEVER understood the value of a "proportionate response" when dealing with terrorists or any other armed force which is determined to kill you.

413 Wendya  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:31:50pm

re: #398 Catttt

If they need to see it to believe it, then how can they possibly accept atomic theory or relativity? Plus, many of those same incredulous people want to bring the supernatural into science class, which by its very nature cannot be proven (which is why there are no ID experiments).

Let's face it, for the vast majority of people, atomic theory, evolution or relativity has zero impact on their day to day lives. Not only to they not understand, they just don't care. It's only when other people start telling them evolution attacks their religious faith that they take a side and then, it's not done from a position of knowledge.

414 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:33:12pm

re: #412 realwest

Hello my friend! I have to say that I've NEVER understood the value of a "proportionate response" when dealing with terrorists or any other armed force which is determined to kill you.

"They want to kill us" makes the obvious proportional response to cipher out to "Kill 'em, period". Why is it so hard to see that?

415 CorruptedSynapses  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:33:21pm

re: #405 FurryOldGuyJeans

The only edict science and scientists can put out about reality is "here is what we currently understand, subject to the results of the next experiment or discovery."

That's exactly what I'm saying. There are certainly people who don't see it that way though.

There always needs to be skepticism in interpreting data/conclusions, science is a product of human thought, and humans are far from infallible.

416 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:36:29pm

re: #415 CorruptedSynapses

That's exactly what I'm saying. There are certainly people who don't see it that way though.

There always needs to be skepticism in interpreting data/conclusions, science is a product of human thought, and humans are far from infallible.

You sure too a wide detour to say it considering I was talking about the Disco people wanting to inject theology into High School science classes guised as legitimate science.

417 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:40:53pm

re: #382 FurryOldGuyJeans
Well and regrettably, we've had more than our share of folks who feel they are "entitled" for quite some time now.
What is truly regrettable, to me anyway, is the way Obama is selling his product and the population - or seemingly a majority of the population - is buying it: Government please take care of us so we don't have to work (or at least don't have to work too hard) make our decisions for us so we can't be personally held to "blame" if we fuck something up, please President Obama, give us our Nanny State and we'll give you the Freedoms that millions of Americans have died protecting and preserving.
I understand the desire to be taken care of, but have a really hard time wrapping my brain around the idea of giving up my Freedoms. Yes, with Freedom comes responsibilty, so what?
It really is a sad period for America right now.

418 CorruptedSynapses  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:41:21pm

re: #416 FurryOldGuyJeans

You sure too a wide detour to say it considering I was talking about the Disco people wanting to inject theology into High School science classes guised as legitimate science.

I'm not going to apologize for assuming you were a "science as a new age religion" type, when you diss someone for asking a completely legitimate question.

419 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:42:14pm

re: #387 formercorpsman
Yup.

420 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:44:02pm

re: #418 CorruptedSynapses

I'm not going to apologize for assuming you were a "science as a new age religion" type, when you diss someone for asking a completely legitimate question.

Assume all you want. Just know I am not the one with donkey ears when you do.

421 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:46:08pm

re: #418 CorruptedSynapses

I'm not going to apologize for assuming you were a "science as a new age religion" type, when you diss someone for asking a completely legitimate question.

Forgot to add:

And given the prior track record of said questioner the legitimacy of the inquiry was not very high.

422 realwest  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:48:59pm

re: #414 FurryOldGuyJeans
I don't know. You try to kill me or mine (much less succeed in killing some of mine and say you intend to come back and kill some more) seems to me to justify a response which IS proportional: I'm gonna do my best to kill you and yours to protect me and mine.
Anything less is playing politics with people's lives.

423 FurryOldGuyJeans  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 9:50:20pm

re: #422 realwest

I don't know. You try to kill me or mine (much less succeed in killing some of mine and say you intend to come back and kill some more) seems to me to justify a response which IS proportional: I'm gonna do my best to kill you and yours to protect me and mine.
Anything less is playing politics with people's lives.

Proportional response is only for those people who want to lose a war. ;)

424 Alberta Oil Peon  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:03:14pm

re: #399 M. Bensson-Levi

I was writing this essay on entropy, but then it got all disorganized and fell apart.

Woo-hoo! I like it.

425 aussie_dave  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:49:46pm

re: #383 Mich-again

Hence my observation of "Intervention". I think human natural selection over the 20th century, and how we through our social and health systems try to circumvent that, is a worthy study.

426 Sea Salt  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:50:33pm

Those numbers are astounding. Just when you thought the Scopes Monkey trial was a thing of the past.

427 aussie_dave  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:53:52pm

re: #386 realwest

I apologise for giving any impression that I care.

428 aussie_dave  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 10:57:06pm

re: #402 Salamantis

Nope, I am not convinced by genetic mutation. I see the likelihood that random genetic mutation at the same point in history with at least 2 individuals of opposite sex producing a viable change as beyond likelihood.

But thank your for your suggestion.

429 BLBfootballs  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 11:34:41pm

I think it's important not to 'under interpret' polls like this. In the US alot of people who say they "don't believe in evolution" mean that they don't believe that life simply arose by itself and proceeded randomly with no involvement from a Creator. Because evolution is often portrayed as some kind of justification for a hard materialist worldview, many people interpret "evolution" as endorsing that worldview. Believers are aware of that trend and sensitive to it. So when asked "do you believe in evolution?" by a pollster, they'll tend to hear "don't you agree that it's silly to believe in a Creator?" and they answer no.

But I'm really dubious that even 40% of Americans are genuine young earth creationists. If you separate "evolution" the biological mechanism from "evolution" the attempt at grand cosmology, I suspect that fewer Americans have a deep problem with it.

430 Salamantis  Thu, Feb 12, 2009 11:46:44pm

re: #428 aussie_dave

Nope, I am not convinced by genetic mutation. I see the likelihood that random genetic mutation at the same point in history with at least 2 individuals of opposite sex producing a viable change as beyond likelihood.

But thank your for your suggestion.

Only one member of a mating pair needs to have a bit of solar radiation alter a genomic base pair in its semen or ovum for it to communicate to offspring. Some mutations are dominant, and others are recessive. If a dominant one is environnmentally successful, its host gets to reproduce, and it wins a wider representation in the gene pool. Recessive ones can piggyback on the success of the other genes until two of them meet. If the trait produced by those two together is environmentally successful, then THEY get to reproduce and increase their gene pool frequency, too.

You really need to rethink this.

431 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 12:20:55am
432 aussie_dave  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 1:30:28am

re: #430 Salamantis

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. With respect, I do find "You really need to rethink this" somewhat arrogant.

But thank you for your view on the matter.

433 israellycool  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 3:32:17am

Hey everyone,

Just so you know. The person who is going by "aussie_dave" on here is NOT me.

Cheers.

434 meh130  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 4:21:57am

A somewhat bogused question, as most people do not know what "evolution" or the "theory of evolution" means.

Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life on Earth. That is abiogenesis, not evolution.

Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of the Universe and Earth. That is cosmology, not evolution..

Evolution is only the study of the change in the inherited traits of a population of organisms from one generation to the next. Nothing more.

Too many people think Darwin had something to say about the Big Bang Theory. Few realize the Big Bang Theory was originated by Jesuit Priest and professor of physics Georges Lemaître, who, along with his theory, was ridiculed by scientists for over three decades as "Genesis masquerading as science". Yes, originally Big Bang Theory was seen as religious pseudo-science by the scientific community. But once the scientists agreed, for some reason some in the religious community decided somehow the Big Bang Theory was some kind of atheistic conspiracy. Go figure.

Another amazing thing is both atheist abiogenesis scientists and young Earth creationists have to agree on one thing: At some point, inanimate matter became life.

435 aussie_dave  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 4:26:33am

re: #433 israellycool

Hey everyone,

Just so you know. The person who is going by "aussie_dave" on here is NOT me.

Cheers.

Yep I can confirm that.

I wonder why on earth you had to state that?

436 israellycool  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 5:43:35am

re: #435 aussie_dave

Because I am known in the blogosphere as Aussie Dave.

437 LoveOneAnother  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 5:46:00am

It is a poor question for the educated. I would have to answer yes, even though I am a Creationist. I believe in a Creator who created the world, and evolution has shaped the species since then. I believe in Natural Selection as a currently observable process, but I do not believe that Natural Selection alone accounts for origins, so I am not a Darwinist. In my opinion, Darwin was wrong in how far he extrapolated the principles of Natural Selection. The fossil record shows a lot more non-evolution than it does evolution.

One thing the poll shows is that the propaganda machine that scientists have started to embrace for the last 20 years is not working as well as they had hoped. People tend to know deep down when something is not true. They can use the legal system to shut out competing viewpoints, but eventually people are going to wise up to what the truth is.

438 Leatherhelmet  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 5:48:44am

Since evolution isn't defined the question is worthless.

439 tyree  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 6:42:49am

Everyone should take a class in Statistics.

The poll is wrong at it's core. What in the world does it mean to "believe" in Evolution? You can believe in God. You can believe that your friend is telling the truth. You cannot "believe" in a scientific process. It is like saying you believe that water boils at 100 degrees Celsius. The poll measures something. But it does not measure accurately what we believe.

We have to start insisting that words keep their meanings and stop the journalists and from changing what they mean on a daily basis.

440 theatheistjew  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 7:02:26am

"Believing" is not a word that should go with science or evolution. It should say "do you accept evolution?"
OT, sort of, a perfect idea to celebrate Darwin Day.

441 A.W.  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 7:03:58am

Charles, Charles,

This evolution thing has really gotten you screwed up. Suddenly you are trusting Gallup? And caring what the French think of us? What happened to you, man?

And yes, Gallup stinks. not only did they amazingly manage to put out numbers that add up to 101%, but the question sucks.

First, there is the confusion between evolution as a theory of origin, and evolution as a continuing process. the latter is virtually undeniable (unless you think you are in the matrix or something) and the other is, less so. Second, it conflates the concepts of "best scientific explanation" and belief. I can very rationally say "I recognize that the best scientific evidence supports the theory that evolution, but my faith tells me we were created."

So the question stinks, gallup stinks, but if you have been watching them for a while you would already know that.

442 Yashmak  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 7:21:12am

re: #1 victor_yugo

It adds up to 101%.

Morons.

That's hysterical. As is the notion that science is an issue of 'belief', as it is portrayed in that poll. Faith requires belief in the absence of hard evidence. Science requires evidence.

re: #437 LoveOneAnother

I believe in Natural Selection as a currently observable process, but I do not believe that Natural Selection alone accounts for origins, so I am not a Darwinist. .

Evolutionary theory doesn't attempt to explain origins, so that comment makes little sense. For that matter, you introduce the nebulous term 'Darwinist', leaving us to wonder what exactly that means.

443 Yashmak  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 7:25:10am

re: #410 capitalist piglet


I've said it before, but I think HotAir has seen a large influx of Freepers in the past few years. More and more, it's taking on that tone.

I'd have to agree with that, and it's sad too. HotAir has some genuinely good stuff, but the commentary gets downright hateful.

444 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 8:28:11am

re: #435 aussie_dave

Yep I can confirm that.

I wonder why on earth you had to state that?

I'll take a wild guess, and suggest it might be that he doesn't want people to think he's a creationist.

445 Ayeless in Ghazi  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 8:36:49am

re: #441 A.W.

This evolution thing has really gotten you screwed up. Suddenly you are trusting Gallup? And caring what the French think of us? What happened to you, man?

It's not just the French but the rest of the western world that feels superior to America on this subject, and with justification. How to respond to that? By recognising a problem that needs to be fixed, highlighting it and marking it 'urgent', or by cutting your nose off to spite your face, and making your countries collective scientific ignorance a matter of national 'pride'? "Yeah fuck the french and them damn euros - we're dumb as a sack o hammers when it comes to bio-thingummy and we're still no1 - that's jus how we likes it round here - they ain't gonna turn us inta them with their fancy book-larning".

That seems to be the attitude of the religious right; I'm glad Charles has taken this site in a more sensible direction.

446 hydrocarbon hank  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 8:46:22am

I struggle with this topic...Is it wrong to believe that God used/uses evolution as function of his creation?

447 BLBfootballs  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 9:04:32am

re: #446 hydrocarbon hank

Why would it be "wrong"?

448 Rednek  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 9:09:16am

Evolution is not something you believe in.

It is something you are convinced of.

449 kansas  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 9:10:28am

Saw a really cool documentary on the Galapagos last night on Discovery Channel. Certainly evolution there. A little slower here, however. [Link: www.winknews.com...]

450 swassociates  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 9:12:17am

Keep in mind that believing in evolution (like I do) still doesn't prove the origin of man, or life in general. We see species evolution in everyday life so it's impossible to deny. However, saying it explains where man or life came from is just as absurd given the actual scientific proof we have now.

451 jweaks  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 9:20:32am

Without defining what "theory of evolution" means, it's just a silly, moot question.

452 Basho  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 9:45:04am

re: #445 Jimmah

Well put.

453 Euler  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 9:47:25am
454 kafir  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 10:04:30am

Some important points.

True scientists wont "believe" in evolution. They will accept it as a theory which does more to explain observations than other theories.

Evolution is as much a "fact" as is Newtonian gravitation, that is, not at all. Newtonian gravitation is known to be incorrect in specifics that general relativity fixes. But this doesn't make relativity any more a 'fact'.

The issue is one of lawyer-like interpretations of words 'fact' and 'theory' and 'law' which are fundamentally at odds with how real scientists use these words. This ambiguity on the part of the creationists is dishonest at best.

It is not correct to say "Evolution happened". We don't know if it did. Its just that all the observations to date can be explained by evolution. Moreover, questions that arise that challenge evolution are GOOD. A scientific theory is made STRONGER by smart intellectually honest people trying to poke holes in it, and failing to do so. Remember, you need but one observation that evolution cannot/does not predict to effectively nullify that theory.

And this is why creationism cannot be interpreted as a theory, as the proponents of the theory would never accept that it can be proven wrong with a single observation not in line with its predictions. Which is also why creationism and any of its derivatives should be taught in science class as "the wrong way to attack a good working theory".

Remember, Einstein objected strenuously to quantum theory. Even proposed an experiment with two others now called EPR. Einstein vowed that the lord should not play games of dice in the universe, and if (s)he did, then EPR should work. Spooky action at a distance.

Teleportation. And instantaneous communication.

Which has now been observed in the lab.

Spooky.

Creationism isn't a science, isn't a scientific theory. Scientific theories should not be objects of belief. Otherwise they are no more than a faith.

455 robdouth  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 11:11:37am

I agree with Kafir. It's assinine either way to ask if you believe in a theory. Would anyone stupidly ask, "Do you believe in the theory of relativity?" Look it's a theory, which I personally believe is easily squared with my Christian faith. However, the beauty of America is that what I believe doesn't matter, and shouldn't/can't/won't/shan't be imposed on anyone else (except any children I have who are SOL).

Given unprovable theories and religions, this poll is honestly meaningless. The only legitimate question is whether the theory of evolution is reasonable. There is nothing to believe. It can't be proved one way or the other to become law, but there is great evidence for it, or something very similar. Why oh why (like Charles said) do these idiots always have to be on the right?

456 Mr Secul  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 11:53:48am

re: #428 aussie_dave

Nope, I am not convinced by genetic mutation. I see the likelihood that random genetic mutation at the same point in history with at least 2 individuals of opposite sex producing a viable change as beyond likelihood.

I don't think that you understand.

Are you of the opinion that mutations never happen?

Do you think that it is necessary for two people to have the same mutation at the same time?

Do you think that all mutations are harmful?

What, in your words, is a genetic mutation?

Is there more than one type?

Could you give examples?

457 LoveOneAnother  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 12:04:13pm

re: #442 Yashmak

Evolutionary theory doesn't attempt to explain origins, so that comment makes little sense. For that matter, you introduce the nebulous term 'Darwinist', leaving us to wonder what exactly that means.

I was talking about the origins of the diversity of species that we have in the world. It certainly does attempt to explain that, and even more, but I won't go there right now.

458 Yashmak  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 12:36:34pm

re: #457 LoveOneAnother

I was talking about the origins of the diversity of species that we have in the world. It certainly does attempt to explain that, and even more, but I won't go there right now.

It attempts to explain the process by which diversity occurs. It doesn't address origins. That's a huge difference. None of your dodging and twisting and 'not going there right now' changes that.

459 Ayeless in Ghazi  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 1:36:49pm

re: #452 Basho

Thanks.

460 LoveOneAnother  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 1:46:50pm

re: #454 kafir

And this is why creationism cannot be interpreted as a theory, as the proponents of the theory would never accept that it can be proven wrong with a single observation not in line with its predictions.

This is not a fair statement. Evolutionists claim this about creationists the same way that creationists claim any observation contrary to evolutionary interpretation will not be accepted by the evolutionist. I am a creationist who would immeditely discard any creationist theory that was falsified by the physical data. If the geological column actually existed the way the textbooks have portrayed it all my life, I would not be a creationist today.

461 LoveOneAnother  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 1:54:37pm

re: #458 Yashmak

It attempts to explain the process by which diversity occurs. It doesn't address origins. That's a huge difference. None of your dodging and twisting and 'not going there right now' changes that.

Yeah, and I guess you also object to that book titled, "The Origin of Species." If you don't like my use of the term "origin" then take it up with Darwin. It's his birthday and he used the term a lot more than I have.

462 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 2:37:31pm

re: #461 LoveOneAnother

Yeah, and I guess you also object to that book titled, "The Origin of Species." If you don't like my use of the term "origin" then take it up with Darwin. It's his birthday and he used the term a lot more than I have.

You are being deliberately obtuse, as usual.

463 Basho  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 2:38:04pm

re: #461 LoveOneAnother

Origin of SPECIES! JEEZ!

464 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 2:38:21pm

re: #460 LoveOneAnother

I am a creationist who would immeditely discard any creationist theory that was falsified by the physical data.

Shameless.

465 Basho  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 2:40:22pm

Why isn't the book called Origin of Animals, Origin of Life, Origin of Organisms, etc etc...

This is really the bottom of stupid barrel.

466 Yashmak  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 3:32:51pm

re: #461 LoveOneAnother

Yeah, and I guess you also object to that book titled, "The Origin of Species." If you don't like my use of the term "origin" then take it up with Darwin. It's his birthday and he used the term a lot more than I have.

I note it wasn't titled "The Origin of Life" now, was it? I have no issues with your use of the word. It's your basic misconception that the Theory of Evolution addresses the origin of life that is frustrating. This most recent response of your is simply another dodge, another twist, and I'm pretty sure you're well aware of that.

467 Salamantis  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 3:41:37pm

re: #437 LoveOneAnother

It is a poor question for the educated. I would have to answer yes, even though I am a Creationist. I believe in a Creator who created the world, and evolution has shaped the species since then. I believe in Natural Selection as a currently observable process, but I do not believe that Natural Selection alone accounts for origins, so I am not a Darwinist. In my opinion, Darwin was wrong in how far he extrapolated the principles of Natural Selection. The fossil record shows a lot more non-evolution than it does evolution.

Darwin's book is entitled Origin of Species, not Origins of Life. Evolution doesn't address the explanation of life's origins (that is the focus of origins of life theory), but instead what happens when already-present populations of organisms possessing high but imperfect genetic copying fidelity are confronted by environments containing specific challenges and opportunities. And what happens is random genetic mutation acted upon by nonrandom environmental selection.

The fact that most fossils are of example of species that no longer exist (are extinct) is itself proof that evolution (change in species over time) has happened.

One thing the poll shows is that the propaganda machine that scientists have started to embrace for the last 20 years is not working as well as they had hoped. People tend to know deep down when something is not true. They can use the legal system to shut out competing viewpoints, but eventually people are going to wise up to what the truth is.

What the poll shows is that the creationist propaganda machine, systematically using churches as dissemination devices, has been effective in deluding the naive, credulous and gullible.

468 Salamantis  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 3:46:25pm

re: #450 swassociates

Keep in mind that believing in evolution (like I do) still doesn't prove the origin of man, or life in general. We see species evolution in everyday life so it's impossible to deny. However, saying it explains where man or life came from is just as absurd given the actual scientific proof we have now.

Well, we can empirically demonstrate beyond rational statistical doubt, via shared artifactual retroviral DNA sequences, that humans and great apes evolutionarily diverged into distinct species from common ancestors.

469 Salamantis  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 3:52:52pm

re: #460 LoveOneAnother

This is not a fair statement. Evolutionists claim this about creationists the same way that creationists claim any observation contrary to evolutionary interpretation will not be accepted by the evolutionist. I am a creationist who would immeditely discard any creationist theory that was falsified by the physical data. If the geological column actually existed the way the textbooks have portrayed it all my life, I would not be a creationist today.

Yeah, in my opinion, all that geology empirically falsifies my creationist beliefs, so it must all be either a massive collection of serendipitous mistakes by thousands of empirical researchers, or else a meticulously co-ordinated collective propaganda lie...because, after all, it is inconceivable to me that I could be believing in the empirically untrue...

Sheesh!

470 aussie_dave  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 5:34:16pm

re: #436 israellycool

Because I am known in the blogosphere as Aussie Dave.

I wonder how I ended up with this handle then? Hmmm

471 Yashmak  Fri, Feb 13, 2009 10:15:10pm

re: #470 aussie_dave

I wonder how I ended up with this handle then? Hmmm

Could be a case of trans-dimensional handle transfer. You guys better be careful. . .if your handles actually come into physical contact with each other, it could cause the entire comment thread to spontaneously annihilate.

472 israellycool  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 9:56:55am

re: #470 aussie_dave

I don't have a trademark on the handle. I was just pointing it out to those LGF readers who may have thought it was me.

473 israellycool  Sat, Feb 14, 2009 9:57:22am

re: #471 Yashmak

Heh! I'll try to be careful..


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