Outing a Liar

Blogosphere • Views: 4,545

Here’s a guy who used to be a registered LGF commenter (“ElKafir”) with a post accusing me of “deceptive malevolence,” and claiming he never wrote a comment I attributed to him: Transsylvania Phoenix: To LGF’s Charles Johnson: You Really Lost It, Pal!

Well, unfortunately for this person, when I delete a comment at LGF, it’s simply removed from view, not gone for good.

And I’ve restored the viewable status of his comment, to prove that he did indeed write exactly what he’s claiming he didn’t write:

We must separate ourselves from this cancer of civilization called Islam

Mass deportations. Start with the non-citizens. Then continue with the naturalized and US born or converted muslims. Declare Islam a threat to the very existance of the Republic and its Constitution (afterall, in Islam the only accepted law is the Sharia and muslims everywhere in the world are taught their first duty is to obey the Islamic law and only after that to obey the laws of the countries they live in - with the condition those laws aren’t contradicting the Islamic laws).

Amend the Constitution, strip them all of citizenship, offer them the chance to become apostates and remain here in the civilized world or deport them if they refuse.

Make conversion and preaching Islam a crime punished either by life in prison or deportation. That would be a humaine measure when compared with the punishment for renouncing Islam in most islamic countries is death by decapitation.

Here’s the comment in the context of the thread from June 4th, 2007, in which you can see that other people reacted negatively to it, and reported it to me—leading to its deletion: Video: 60% of UK Muslims Deny 7/7 Bombings.

I guess he didn’t expect me to be able to do this, before he staked his reputation on a claim that was completely false, and publicly accused me of lying.

An apology would be in order at this point.

UPDATE at 2/16/09 7:56:38 pm:

And of course, now he’s accusing me of a grand conspiracy to smear him, by altering my database. Pathetic.

Jump to bottom

359 comments
1 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 4:56:51pm

I smell burning pants

2 victor_yugo  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 4:57:55pm

re: #1 A Kiwi Infidel

I smell burning pants

That isn't smoke you smell.

3 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 4:58:02pm

So long, ya lying, fascist scumbag!

4 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 4:58:13pm

That whack from the clue-by-four is really going to leave a mark.

5 JammieWearingFool  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 4:58:24pm

Oops.

6 Perplexed  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 4:58:58pm

Well over the top and he needed the banning stick.

7 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 4:59:25pm

re: #2 victor_yugo

That isn't smoke you smell.


I have raised 3 kids and changed all their nappies (that's daipers, to you in the US).

I know the difference.

8 Bloodnok  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 4:59:31pm

All your martyr cookies are belong to us.

9 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:00:01pm

This kind of thing is exactly why I coded the LGF Blog so that I could restore deleted comments.

10 mean Gene  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:01:00pm

re: #3 Sharmuta

So long, ya lying, fascist scumbag!

Excellent use of the term, ''fascist,'' there.
I sometimes watch a TV show called, ''Psych.'' (sp?)
Last time I watched a lead character asked, "How do you tell when someone's lying?......assuming his pants aren't on fire."
Cute show if you've got the time.

11 ProUSA  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:01:05pm

No one messes with the Lizard King!

12 WhiteRasta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:01:09pm

Don't mess with the Lizard Master.

13 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:01:12pm

Who?

Dude, if you staked your reputation and hoped to receive fame and glory on getting burned by the facts, this was definitely the way to do it. You just got PWNED.

14 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:01:48pm

Good riddance.

15 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:01:53pm

From this idiot's blog:

The anti-Christian crusade started by Charles Johnson took proportions I would have never ever dreamed in my worst nightmares.

I haven't noticed an anti-Christian crusade by Charles. Maybe this buffoon could clue me as to why he believes this. Oh wait, my bad, he's banned for being a LYING, FASCIST PIG!

16 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:02:01pm

re: #4 Jetpilot1101

I think that was clue by c4 actually... I think we'll be cleaning up the bits for some time to come...

17 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:02:17pm
18 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:02:27pm

This was exactly what I was talking about on the last thread when I said there are some on the right completely willing to sacrifice their own rights just to deal with a current issue. They don't think through their own so-called conclusion. What would stop the government from declaring another religion as banned, then deporting other citizens? The fascists seem to think their "easy" solutions are all that's needed to solve the issue of islamization, but reality is this "solution" will only lead to bloodshed and misery. I want no part of it.

19 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:02:39pm

How do you know when anyone is disparaging you anywhere on the Internet?

20 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:02:46pm

re: #9 Charles

This kind of thing is exactly why I coded the LGF Blog so that I could restore deleted comments.

He also claims in his blog post that he can't READ LGF because his account is blocked.

I didn't think a blocked account stopped anyone from browsing this site?

21 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:03:01pm

Before anyone goes "oh how awful Charles"...

This is a public forum, but it's also a web log whose contents are copyrighted. Charles owns all comments. Everything you say here really belongs to Charles, since he provides the venue for your publication.

22 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:03:04pm

That'll leave a BIG mark.

23 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:03:05pm
An apology would be in order at this point.

I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you, Charles.

24 JammieWearingFool  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:03:12pm

When was he banned? I noticed in his profile he's posted links and I believe that date (6/4/07) predates links. Must have said even dumber stuff later.

25 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:03:19pm

re: #20 Walter L. Newton

It doesn't. It only means your posting privileges have been revoked.

26 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:03:39pm
27 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:03:40pm

re: #8 Bloodnok

All your martyr cookies are belong to us.

Well put.

Now he'll say that Charles cooked up that entire thread (from 2007) today.

28 Sheila Broflovski  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:03:51pm

re: #19 Nevergiveup

How do you know when anyone is disparaging you anywhere on the Internet?

1. People read it and email you.
2. Self Google
3. Referrer logs

29 Killian Bundy  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:04:18pm
I’ve restored the viewable status of his comment

/um, I can't down ding it, bummer

30 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:04:28pm

re: #28 Alouette

1. People read it and email you.
2. Self Google
3. Referrer logs

Thanks

31 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:04:38pm

re: #25 lawhawk

It doesn't. It only means your posting privileges have been revoked.

I didn't think so. So, he is lying again. Here's what is at the end of his blog post.

UPDATE: Just got an email from somebody telling me Charles Johnson recently wrote two smear pieces, one on Robert Spencer from JihadWatch and another one on... Ann Coulter! Can't tell if it is true since the Master Lizzard put me on his blacklist and I can't browse LGF anymore. But if that's the case, I am honored to be in such a select company on the LGF enemies category together with accomplished writers and commentators like Ann and Robert. And that also begs the question: if Ann Coulter and Robert Spencer are his adversaries, for what team is Charles Johnson really playing now?

I don't think so, jocko!

32 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:05:12pm

re: #26 buzzsawmonkey

He just lost his Templar.

That Eco's my sentiment exactly!

33 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:05:24pm

re: #26 buzzsawmonkey

He just lost his Templar.

*Genuflection To The Master*

34 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:05:29pm

re: #20 Walter L. Newton

IP's can be blocked. He can't even look at lgf.

35 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:05:36pm

re: #24 JammieWearingFool

When was he banned? I noticed in his profile he's posted links and I believe that date (6/4/07) predates links. Must have said even dumber stuff later.

Date of banning:

2009-02-15 14:20:37

It was a meltdown over the creationism threads.

36 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:05:57pm

Fascinating! A poster at his blog is telling him to come over and join Tundra Tabloids- another known fascist apologia blog. "Funny" how they always seem to gravitate towards each other.

37 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:06:18pm

re: #34 Killgore Trout

See my re: #31 Walter L. Newton

38 albusteve  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:06:23pm

"I wrote the code"...
.the guy has no Enigma machine obviously..he gambled and got torched

39 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:06:46pm

re: #9 Charles

This kind of thing is exactly why I coded the LGF Blog so that I could restore deleted comments.

Troll hits restored comment landmine.
Lizards laugh with maniacal glee.
Charcoal piles are ready,
For the great troll roast.

Burma Shave.

40 Killian Bundy  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:06:55pm

Geez, what is it lately with all these people spouting off about amending the Constitution?

/do they have any idea how difficult that is?

41 Perplexed  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:07:05pm

re: #20 Walter L. Newton

He also claims in his blog post that he can't READ LGF because his account is blocked.

I didn't think a blocked account stopped anyone from browsing this site?

Depends on if only his account has been shut down or if Charles went so far as to block a group of IP addresses. Might be wrong on the last one.

42 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:07:05pm

I removed the IP block, which I put in place when he started emailing angry messages to me, so that he can experience this post.

43 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:07:06pm

re: #35 Charles

Date of banning:

2009-02-15 14:20:37

It was a meltdown over the creationism threads.

Those sure are fun to watch, some of the best entertainment online.

44 jaunte  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:07:33pm

A brief flare of celebrity, then a long guttering out into smoky obscurity.

45 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:07:35pm

re: #42 Charles

He's in for a rude surprise!

46 Miss Molly  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:07:45pm

Whatever this is, I am on your side Charles

47 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:08:15pm

re: #42 Charles

I removed the IP block, which I put in place when he started emailing angry messages to me, so that he can experience this post.

Then maybe I should go over there and let him know that he has become a "star." Do you hear the ego in his message.

UPDATE: Just got an email from somebody telling me Charles Johnson recently wrote two smear pieces, one on Robert Spencer from JihadWatch and another one on... Ann Coulter! Can't tell if it is true since the Master Lizzard put me on his blacklist and I can't browse LGF anymore. But if that's the case, I am honored to be in such a select company on the LGF enemies category together with accomplished writers and commentators like Ann and Robert. And that also begs the question: if Ann Coulter and Robert Spencer are his adversaries, for what team is Charles Johnson really playing now?

48 debutaunt  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:09:06pm

re: #9 Charles

I just get all giddy when reality smacks these liars.

49 JammieWearingFool  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:09:15pm

re: #35 Charles

Date of banning:

2009-02-15 14:20:37

It was a meltdown over the creationism threads.

Thanks. I actually went and read his bilge and caught that after I posed the question.

Seems there are a lot of people having meltdowns of late.

How insipid to declare that he can't read LGF because he's been blocked.

50 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:09:20pm
51 hazzyday  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:09:40pm

re: #20 Walter L. Newton

He also claims in his blog post that he can't READ LGF because his account is blocked.

I didn't think a blocked account stopped anyone from browsing this site?

Anyone could go to a different computer if they get blocked on the internet by anything. The only thing one can be blocked out on is hidden content. Where you need a login to view it. Then you can be blocked by IP, by nic but you can still login with a different account from a different isp.

Much ado about nothing by this fellow. I think the typical banned lgf'r often quotes some innocent comment that got them banned, but in reality it was something much more egregious. They have trouble being honest.

52 quickjustice  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:10:21pm

He defamed you. Public ridicule online is faster and more effective than the slow, tedious, and expensive legal system.

53 albusteve  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:11:01pm

can't post over there unless you submit to a strip search...not me

54 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:11:26pm

re: #53 albusteve

can't post over there unless you submit to a strip search...not me

Why give him the traffic?

55 jones  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:11:31pm

Good for Charles. The enemy of an enemy is not your friend.

I am glad to be associated with a pricipled man. It is easy to conform and get along, but to take a stand is something else.

Who on the Left will fight for principle over ease and allies?

56 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:11:42pm

re: #38 albusteve

"I wrote the code"...
.the guy has no Enigma machine obviously..he gambled and got torched

He has an Enigma, but Charles has Colossus (the first computer, built by Britain's ULTRA to break German codes during WWII).

57 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:11:42pm
58 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:11:56pm

re: #51 hazzyday

I think the typical banned lgf'r often quotes some innocent comment that got them banned, but in reality it was something much more egregious. They have trouble being honest.

Absolutely right. I've seen many banned users commenting at other sites, dissing me, and claiming they were banned for no reason. There's always a reason.

59 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:11:57pm

He'll be much happier at jihad watch and tundra tabloids anyways.

Hope he enjoys his fleas.

60 debutaunt  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:12:02pm

re: #53 albusteve

can't post over there unless you submit to a strip search...not me

Oh darn - let's see those abs.

61 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:12:47pm

re: #53 albusteve

can't post over there unless you submit to a strip search...not me

What?

62 SpaceJesus  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:13:11pm

just out of curiosity, how is it possible to go on an anti-christian crusade?

is it possible to go on an anti-muslim jihad then?

63 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:13:59pm

re: #62 SpaceJesus

just out of curiosity, how is it possible to go on an anti-christian crusade?

is it possible to go on an anti-muslim jihad then?

Good language point, SJ.

64 albusteve  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:14:00pm

re: #54 Walter L. Newton

Why give him the traffic?

re: #54 Walter L. Newton

Why give him the traffic?

to give him a heads up that the veil has been temporarily lifted

65 EdgeMan  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:14:16pm

Busted!

66 Achilles Tang  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:14:54pm

I remember hearing that door slam.

However, he says he can't browse LGF since being dumped. That's not true, even from the same computer.

67 screaming_eagle  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:14:57pm

re: #62 SpaceJesus

just out of curiosity, how is it possible to go on an anti-christian crusade?

is it possible to go on an anti-muslim jihad then?

Political correctness makes anything possible.

68 mean Gene  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:15:24pm

That would be one wiggy Constitutional Amendment, wouldn't it?
Really, I can't for the life of me figure out how it would even potentially be worded.

69 albusteve  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:15:28pm

re: #57 buzzsawmonkey

Nobody gets to look at my comic books.

your creeping back towards 40k you know

70 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:15:59pm

re: #66 Naso Tang

I remember hearing that door slam.

However, he says he can't browse LGF since being dumped. That's not true, even from the same computer.

I blocked his IP when he started sending me angry emails. I've now removed that block, so he can experience this post fully.

71 Perplexed  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:16:26pm

Hmm. Always looked at it as being Charles house and Charles rules. Crap on the living room carpet and out you go.

72 solomonpanting  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:16:47pm
What the hell are you talking about, Charles? When and where did I said or wrote any of that? Did you just lost your fucking mind or are you just the biggest liar on the Blogosphere?

His damning comment was obviously written by his evil twin, Skippy.

73 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:16:51pm

re: #60 debutaunt

Oh darn - let's see those abs.

*flex*
*flex*

DAMMIT, DEB! .. QUIT LAUGHING!

74 Noam Sayin'  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:17:07pm

... nucking futs.

Clever.

Charles, if you continue nucking your futs, you'll go blind, you know.

75 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:17:18pm

re: #70 Charles

I blocked his IP when he started sending me angry emails. I've now removed that block, so he can experience this post fully.

I do hope stops by. In my mind's eye, I can see his head exploding.

76 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:17:22pm
77 USBeast  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:17:28pm

re: #62 SpaceJesus

just out of curiosity, how is it possible to go on an anti-christian crusade?

is it possible to go on an anti-muslim jihad then?

Only if it's possible to go on an anti-drinking binge.

78 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:17:58pm

I love how the banned always portray themselves as victims when past and current actions always show them to be mean, petty, little assholes with few principles or scruples.

79 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:18:19pm

I should have known that posting this would bring out people who see nothing wrong with it.

80 albusteve  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:18:25pm

re: #70 Charles

I blocked his IP when he started sending me angry emails. I've now removed that block, so he can experience this post fully.

maybe he's obsessive and just keeps ringing the door bell

81 Achilles Tang  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:18:25pm

re: #70 Charles

Oh, I thought that given dynamic IP allocation one couldn't really do that without risking blocking many. Maybe in the short term...

82 jemima  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:18:33pm

re: #40 Killian Bundy

Geez, what is it lately with all these people spouting off about amending the Constitution?

/do they have any idea how difficult that is?

I hope it's really difficult because I'm sure the Obama administration is working on it already.

83 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:19:16pm

re: #76 thgrant

What's your suggestion?

84 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:19:18pm

re: #76 thgrant

You can argue anything you want to argue -- deport 'em all, kill 'em all, give 'em all wedgies.

But you can't post that stuff at my site.

85 Killgore Trout  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:19:20pm

Don't quote it.

86 SpaceJesus  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:19:22pm

re: #68 mean Gene

That would be one wiggy Constitutional Amendment, wouldn't it?
Really, I can't for the life of me figure out how it would even potentially be worded.


Well first you'd start off by outlawing the Supreme Court, then you'd cut out the 1st Amendment, then probably use the Commerce Clause to enact some Congressional Act that would tie practicing Islam to interfere with the economic activity between states based around the same logic as prohibition against alcohol (that practicing islam makes one lazy and unproductive and hurts families which in turn harms commerce) and then go from there probably rename America to Nazi Crazy Land.

87 albusteve  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:19:42pm

re: #78 Sharmuta

I love how the banned always portray themselves as victims when past and current actions always show them to be mean, petty, little assholes with few principles or scruples.

not every single one of them....some probably have their principles

88 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:19:47pm

re: #70 Charles

I blocked his IP when he started sending me angry emails. I've now removed that block, so he can experience this post fully.

Oh good!

... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ElKafir, you are a bald-faced LIAR !

89 Noam Sayin'  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:20:06pm

Okay, what's the over/under on thgrant?

90 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:20:13pm

re: #76 thgrant

Yeah, sure the guy is a fascist, but on the other hand, I don't see Muslims supporting free speech, gays, and protesting Sharia...

After the first part of your comment, the rest of what you posted has no merit, and is not worth our time.

91 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:20:27pm

Gawd, I hope I never get my own thread of infamy.

92 solomonpanting  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:20:29pm

re: #79 Charles

I should have known that posting this would bring out people who see nothing wrong with it.

Yeah, we need a good diversion----say, a thread on evolution?

93 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:20:36pm

re: #76 thgrant

Yeah- and you made apologies for robert too, so I'm not surprised.

Enjoy your fleas.

94 mean Gene  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:20:43pm

re: #86 SpaceJesus

Yeah, I was seeing it go ~ that way, too.

95 BakaRanger  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:21:00pm

Some early photos from the Seattle tax protest.

96 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:21:01pm

re: #70 Charles

I blocked his IP when he started sending me angry emails. I've now removed that block, so he can experience this post fully.


And, no doubt Charles, you will get an angry email in repsonse to your hospitality.

97 Bloodnok  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:21:06pm

"I didn't do nuthin'. In fact I was dinging Charles UP when he banned me. He's so mean!" /

Honestly, does anyone take responsibility for their actions anymore?

Answer: Rarely.

98 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:21:11pm

re: #76 thgrant

Hey einstein, if you do it to the Muslims first, what will stop the government from doing it to the Christians or the Hindus, or the Scientologists etc. etc. etc. You fascists miss the slippery slope and prove narrow mindedness.

99 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:21:56pm

re: #76 thgrant

We should not discriminate on the basis of religion. We should focus on what an individual Muslim is saying or doing, but we should then move on that basis, and not tar ourselves by dropping the hammer on all Muslims.

100 Irish Rose  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:22:00pm

re: #9 Charles

This kind of thing is exactly why I coded the LGF Blog so that I could restore deleted comments.

... huzzah! :)

101 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:22:01pm

re: #80 albusteve

What did you mean in No. 53?

102 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:22:08pm

re: #79 Charles

I should have known that posting this would bring out people who see nothing wrong with it.

I think it's good in that we can see who the vile little fascists among us are.

103 Perplexed  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:22:46pm

re: #98 Jetpilot1101

Hey einstein, if you do it to the Muslims first, what will stop the government from doing it to the Christians or the Hindus, or the Scientologists etc. etc. etc. You fascists miss the slippery slope and prove narrow mindedness.

Excellent point. Where do you stop when you begin shutting down religions?

104 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:23:27pm

re: #102 Sharmuta

I think it's good in that we can see who the vile little fascists among us are.

I bet that post hurt his karma, that is if he is still amongst the living?

105 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:23:51pm

So, now that this guy's gotten his 15 seconds of fame, can we get back to the business at hand.

Pakistan is busy turning itself over to the Taliban in bits and pieces and Sharia will be the law of the land before long. The Taliban aren't going to be satisfied with just their corner of the country (frontier provinces and Swat). They're going to want more, sensing weakness from the Zardari government. That bodes poorly for the US/NATO operations in Afghanistan as the Taliban and al Qaeda use Pakistan's frontier provinces for refuge, even as the US airstrikes continue to take out top leaders and al Qaeda thugs much to the chagrin of the Pakistani government in Islamabad.

106 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:23:59pm

I've posted this many times, but apparently it needs to be said again:

If you argue that it's vitally necessary to deport the entire Muslim population of the United States, you are ADVOCATING MASS MURDER.

Yes, I'm shouting.

There is no way in hell that you can uproot millions of people, most of whom have done nothing wrong, and throw them all out of the country, without committing mass violence. People will resist this with all their hearts.

And not just Muslims. No decent American would stand for it.

It's a stupid, empty, meaningless fantasy that will never happen, and when you start ranting about it at my site, you achieve nothing but to drag everyone here into the muck, and make us all look like extremists and fascist assholes.

I won't tolerate it.

107 JammieWearingFool  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:24:17pm

I'll assume his post has been screen capped. You suppose he's dumb enough to try and revise it or send it down the memory hole?

108 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:24:30pm

re: #97 Bloodnok

"I didn't do nuthin'. In fact I was dinging Charles UP when he banned me. He's so mean!" /

Honestly, does anyone take responsibility for their actions anymore?

Answer: Rarely.

That's a good point. For so-called conservatives, they sure have a problem with personal responsibility, don't they? Much easier to wallow in victimhood like a leftist.

109 albusteve  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:25:03pm

re: #101 MandyManners

What did you mean in No. 53?

sorry...you need to log with a user and pass but also establish a Google account

110 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:25:04pm

Fleas all the way down....

If you check his blog sidebar he's was already in that 910 nexus.

Someone should do a "follow the networks" study sometime.

111 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:25:17pm

re: #107 JammieWearingFool

I'll assume his post has been screen capped. You suppose he's dumb enough to try and revise it or send it down the memory hole?

If I know the folks who have melted down as well as I think, he's dumb enough.

112 jones  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:25:20pm

re: #99 Dark_Falcon

We should not discriminate on the basis of religion. We should focus on what an individual Muslim is saying or doing, but we should then move on that basis, and not tar ourselves by dropping the hammer on all Muslims.

Yeah quote and reply work for me all of the sudden!


The last thing we need is to treat people as groups. Western Civ is built on the respect for the individual. Is it easy, no; is it right, yes.

113 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:25:31pm
114 monkeytime  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:25:42pm

re: #103 Perplexed

Excellent point. Where do you stop when you begin shutting down religions?

Let's go back in time a few fictional months from the above when the cry was "Where do you stop when you start shutting down radio stations and internet sites?".

115 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:25:43pm

re: #105 lawhawk

So, now that this guy's gotten his 15 seconds of fame, can we get back to the business at hand.

Pakistan is busy turning itself over to the Taliban in bits and pieces and Sharia will be the law of the land before long. The Taliban aren't going to be satisfied with just their corner of the country (frontier provinces and Swat). They're going to want more, sensing weakness from the Zardari government. That bodes poorly for the US/NATO operations in Afghanistan as the Taliban and al Qaeda use Pakistan's frontier provinces for refuge, even as the US airstrikes continue to take out top leaders and al Qaeda thugs much to the chagrin of the Pakistani government in Islamabad.

Yup. Dam, it's almost making Musaraf look like Jefferson?

116 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:26:08pm

re: #106 Charles

*salute*

/and yes, I'm shouting "salute" too

117 noshariaincanada  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:26:50pm

is there a possibly a difference between Elkafir and ElKafir ?

just wondering.

118 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:27:04pm

re: #109 albusteve

sorry...you need to log with a user and pass but also establish a Google account

So?

119 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:27:32pm

re: #115 Nevergiveup

And Musharraf was quite likely playing the US for fools by using one hand to support the Islamists while giving the US some measure of support so as to get money/weapons/deals.

It's yet another argument to provide still greater support and closer ties to India because they truly deserve it.

120 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:28:10pm

re: #117 noshariaincanada

is there a possibly a difference between Elkafir and ElKafir ?

just wondering.

You can change the caps in your nic.

121 tradewind  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:28:18pm

Well hell's bells.... the sumbitch is endorsing policy taken right out of the Islamist playbook. Dumber than a box of rocks.

122 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:28:30pm

re: #119 lawhawk

And Musharraf was quite likely playing the US for fools by using one hand to support the Islamists while giving the US some measure of support so as to get money/weapons/deals.

It's yet another argument to provide still greater support and closer ties to India because they truly deserve it.

Yes, absolutely.

123 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:28:35pm

re: #117 noshariaincanada

is there a possibly a difference between Elkafir and ElKafir ?

just wondering.

No. Usernames are not case sensitive.

124 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:28:35pm

Here's to a requested creationist diversion...

[Link: www.sfgate.com...]

125 lostlakehiker  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:28:42pm

These people do not think like the rest of us. In some ways, they are surprisingly and dangerously effective. They can lie their heads off and never give a behavioral clue that they're lying. The only way to know they're lying is to "go to the tape".

Their sincerity fools legions. But part of the reason why they can lie so unblushingly is that they're good at forgetting inconvenient past details. If you literally do not remember your transgressions or unwanted promises, you cannot be tripped up by your own misgivings or guilty memory during later interrogation.

So although any idiot would have realized that anyone with Charles's computer skills would have kept a permanent archive, this fellow probably never imagined anything of the sort. May well have re-remembered his past so effectively that he now "believes" that he really never said it. And he'll be in a fuming rage that he's been libeled, and he'll be scheming how to "get even". Lawyers he talks to, with a Machiavellian streak of their own, but not so deep as to push them around the bend, will browse around a bit and discover that they're much too busy to take his case, but gee, they sure would have loved to help out if only it had been possible. Honest! Sincerely!

Have you ever met a person who left you wondering, "How could someone be so twisted? So evil?" Prompted by clues in her sister's diary after her mysterious death, author Barbara Oakley takes the reader inside the head of the kinds of malevolent people you know, perhaps all too well, but could never understand.

Starting with psychology as a frame of reference, Oakley uses cutting-edge images of the working brain to provide startling support for the idea that "evil" people act the way they do mainly as the result of a dysfunction. In fact, some deceitful, manipulative, and even sadistic behavior appears to be programmed genetically--suggesting that some people really are born to be bad. But there are unexpected fringe benefits to "evil genes." We may not like them--but we literally can't live without them.


We can live without the evildoers, but we cannot live without the genes that, in excess and in combination with developmental accidents, chance, fate, and free will, code up a brain that's biased toward that sort of thing. The perfectly good-gene person is a naif, a chump, a sucker. Pig, from Pearls before Swine the comic strip.

126 iChef  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:28:46pm

It's Nannerpus time!
nannerpus.com

127 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:28:52pm

re: #117 noshariaincanada

is there a possibly a difference between Elkafir and ElKafir ?

just wondering.

I doubt it.

I happen to know that jcm's nic sometimes appears in lower case, and sometimes in caps. He says it depends upon the computer he logs on from.

128 Perplexed  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:28:53pm

re: #114 monkeytime

Let's go back in time a few fictional months from the above when the cry was "Where do you stop when you start shutting down radio stations and internet sites?".

Destroying the freedoms we have in an effort to control the people results in a very slippery slope towards totalitarianism. Lots of people have taken an oath to protect our country against enemies both foreign and domestic. Who declares someone an enemy of the country?

129 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:29:02pm

re: #105 lawhawk

In a way, it is a related subject - the creeping Sharia and what this guy was calling for. It's the zeal to oppress and cleanse regions of those who think differently than they do, believe differently, and/or refuse to peacefully coexist with others, and it is evil.

130 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:29:09pm

re: #120 MandyManners

You can change the caps in your nic.

Like this.

131 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:29:20pm

Wait a sec.

132 Irish Rose  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:29:46pm

re: #106 Charles

I've posted this many times, but apparently it needs to be said again:

If you argue that it's vitally necessary to deport the entire Muslim population of the United States, you are ADVOCATING MASS MURDER.

Yes, I'm shouting.

There is no way in hell that you can uproot millions of people, most of whom have done nothing wrong, and throw them all out of the country, without committing mass violence. People will resist this with all their hearts.

And not just Muslims. Decent Americans wouldn't stand for it.

It's a stupid, empty, meaningless fantasy that will never happen, and when you start ranting about it at my site, you achieve nothing but to drag everyone here into the muck, and make us all look like extremists and fascist assholes.

I won't tolerate it.

Nor those who enable it.

133 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:29:58pm

re: #131 MandyManners

Wait a sec.

Go for it!

134 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:29:59pm

re: #124 BigPapa

Here's to a requested creationist diversion...

[Link: www.sfgate.com...]


Fools and money........

135 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:30:05pm

test

136 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:30:17pm

Well, forget it.

137 albusteve  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:30:28pm

re: #118 MandyManners

So?

it's excessive for me that's all...I don't want to give Google my addy and do business with them

138 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:30:29pm

re: #131 MandyManners

Wait a sec.


waiting................

139 noshariaincanada  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:30:34pm

re: #123 Charles

No. Usernames are not case sensitive.

and #120 Mandy

gotcha

140 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:30:35pm

re: #115 Nevergiveup

Yup. Dam, it's almost making Musaraf look like Jefferson?

Yup, and we haven't even gotten to the worst part yet. Who does the corrupt "Mr. 10%" Zardari remind you of? From what American city would you expect to find him and his ilk? Once you answer those two questions, you'll know what a deep mess we are in.

141 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:30:39pm

Mandy runs back into the telephone booth ... having forgotten to don her tights and cape.

142 vxbush  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:30:43pm

re: #106 Charles

*applause*

143 countrygurl  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:30:55pm

I just wish we wouldn't let any more Muslims into this country. Is that so wrong?

144 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:31:12pm

re: #135 MandyManners

test FAIL!

145 Wyatt Earp  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:31:12pm

re: #141 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Mandy runs back into the telephone booth ... having forgotten to don her tights and cape.

Mmm . . . Mandy in tights! *drool*

146 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:31:24pm

re: #136 MandyManners

Well, forget it.

Forget what?

147 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:31:39pm

re: #129 lawhawk

In a way, it is a related subject - the creeping Sharia and what this guy was calling for. It's the zeal to oppress and cleanse regions of those who think differently than they do, believe differently, and/or refuse to peacefully coexist with others, and it is evil.

Are you saying it's evil to go after people who refuse to live peacefully with others?

148 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:31:41pm

re: #136 MandyManners

Well, forget it.


We all just like you the way you are {you}

149 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:31:47pm

re: #146 Walter L. Newton

Forget what?

Eaxactly

150 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:31:52pm

Ahhh,I remember reading that steaming pile of crap.
geez seems charles bans for no reason.....
/

151 Perplexed  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:31:52pm

re: #141 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Mandy runs back into the telephone booth ... having forgotten to don her tights and cape.

Has she changed her name to Bea Friendly since Buck Naked wouldn't work?

152 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:31:54pm

re: #136 MandyManners

Well, forget it.

But, it was fun while we were waiting.

153 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:31:58pm

re: #143 countrygurl

What about the ones fleeing persecution?

154 AMER1CAN  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:32:14pm

re: #35 Charles

It's good to know that he wasn't banned for that post because I didn't see anything about violence in it. I see a lot of ignorance in it. Maybe you should post up a quote of the post that got him banned as an update to this thread so people will know. That would also help further show what an idiot this guy is.

I myself have accidentally crossed the line a few times and wound up on the wrong side of the "hammer". Charles is very forgiving if you make the effort and straighten up. Hell, I was even named in a certain unnamed press release lol (still real sorry about that one, mate!) But yet, here I am! My point is, LGF rocks and Charles knows what he's doing. (check cleared, thank you lizard master!)


/drinking early, yay

155 Bloodnok  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:32:29pm

re: #108 Sharmuta

That's a good point. For so-called conservatives, they sure have a problem with personal responsibility, don't they? Much easier to wallow in victimhood like a leftist.

It gives them Stalker-cred.

156 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:32:38pm

I was trying to type my nic in ALL CAPS. It just reverts to normal once I log in.

157 iChef  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:32:43pm

Testing .... Testing 1...2...3
Symbalanceeeeeee ....... syyyymmmbalance .....

158 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:32:46pm

re: #143 countrygurl

re: #143 countrygurl

Yes.

159 mean Gene  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:32:48pm

re: #106 Charles

And here I thought you were referring to the mass murdering of these Americanized Muslims when they sent into some of these Sharia states.
American Muslims, on average, earn a higher income in the states than the average American.
That's partly because they have entrepenurial (sp?) skills that they cannot put to use in countries where Sharia forbids borrowing money to start up a business.
I can't tell you how many times I've read and heard jihadists from the rest of the planet condemning our Muslims as apostates worthy of death.
Our best hope is keeping them here where they are free and enabling them to reform Islam by updating the Arabic in the Koran.

160 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:32:58pm

re: #117 noshariaincanada

is there a possibly a difference between Elkafir and ElKafir ?

just wondering.

Nope, caps in your name appear as you type them upper case or lower case when you log in.

161 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:33:21pm
162 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:33:32pm

re: #151 Perplexed

Has she changed her name to Bea Friendly since Buck Naked wouldn't work?

Watch out or she'll put the Awl together into her 2x4 and whack you!

163 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:33:55pm

See?

164 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:34:09pm

re: #143 countrygurl

I just wish we wouldn't let any more Muslims into this country. Is that so wrong?

Yes. Because we are a free country, with laws that we follow. We have legal immigration laws, and if a Muslim wants to enter this country legally, and they meet all the requirements, than it is fine.

165 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:34:33pm

re: #125 lostlakehiker

Not to mention that there are alot of folks on the interthingy that DO NOT like charles.Speaking bad of him will win you many new visits/fans.
A man is known for the company he keeps

166 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:34:43pm

re: #156 MandyManners

I was trying to type my nic in ALL CAPS. It just reverts to normal once I log in.

Well, ... Calvin did appear without any clothes on ... for just a moment.

167 albusteve  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:35:03pm

re: #165 Boondock St. Bender

Not to mention that there are alot of folks on the interthingy that DO NOT like charles.Speaking bad of him will win you many new visits/fans.
A man is known for the company he keeps

and the beer he drinks

168 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:35:04pm

re: #164 Walter L. Newton

Yes. Because we are a free country, with laws that we follow. We have legal immigration laws, and if a Muslim wants to enter this country legally, and they meet all the requirements, than it is fine.

What if they preach a form of insurrection calling for the overthrow of the Government?

169 rain of lead  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:35:30pm

re: #106 Charles
Well said Sir!

170 mean Gene  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:35:39pm

I should have said "if" they are sent......not ''when'' they are sent.
PIMF

171 Perplexed  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:35:39pm

re: #164 Walter L. Newton

Yes. Because we are a free country, with laws that we follow. We have legal immigration laws, and if a Muslim wants to enter this country legally, and they meet all the requirements, than it is fine.

We have limited immigration into this country in the past and in some cases do so today.

172 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:35:49pm

But hey, Muslim wanting to enter country with terrorist ties, fail. Intelligence, people.

173 Racer X  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:37:01pm

Everyone is entitled to be stupid.

Where is the point of contention.

174 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:37:21pm

re: #156 MandyManners

I was trying to type my nic in ALL CAPS. It just reverts to normal once I log in.

Mandy, your name will appear on the screen the way you first entered your screen name when you first registered. If you entered it MandyManners, then it doesn't matter how you sign in, upper, lower, what ever, Charles' software converts all the case to either upper and lower and searches for you user info, and then grabs your user name from his database as it was first entered the day you sign up on LGF.

175 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:37:28pm

re: #143 countrygurl

Yes, it would be wrong. We should not keep someone out solely because of their religion. That said, it would be OK to prevent someone from coming in because they are unlikely to assimilate and they hold values contrary to our own, but that is acceptable because you are linking entry into the US to specific actions in specific people.

176 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:37:34pm

re: #160 Thanos

Nope, caps in your name appear as you type them upper case or lower case when you log in.

It used to work like that, but I changed it to use the capitalization that you used when you registered, to keep people from dOiNg tHiNgS lIkE tHiS.

177 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:37:59pm

re: #156 MandyManners

I was trying to type my nic in ALL CAPS. It just reverts to normal once I log in.

{Mandy}
*chuckle grin*
Thanks for giving us a chance to laugh, lady!

178 countrygurl  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:38:25pm
#153 Sharmuta What about the ones fleeing persecution?


Look at poor Aryan Hirsi. She was fleeing. And the Muslims in her adopted country were also fleeing persecution. Yet they are trying to kill her because she "left" the religion. Yes, I am opposed to the immigration of Muslims to America. Obama just signed an executive order #2009-15 allotting over $20 million dollars for the immigration of Palestinian refuges to USA. They will just continue their jihad here.

179 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:38:31pm

re: #161 Iron Fist

Iron fist,I'm surprised at you. Those were holy warriors doing away with heretics.
islamic wackjob off

180 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:39:25pm

re: #178 countrygurl

Obama just signed an executive order #2009-15 allotting over $20 million dollars for the immigration of Palestinian refuges to USA.

What?

181 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:39:34pm

Gillibrand removes guns from under bed

[Link: www.newsday.com...]

Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-N.Y.) has moved the two rifles that she kept under the bed to protect her upstate New York home, her spokesman Matt Canter said Monday.

"Given that the location of the guns has been disclosed, they have been moved for security reasons," Canter said.

Gillibrand found a new place to store her guns over the weekend

182 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:39:36pm

re: #167 albusteve

even more so......I'm ashamed of my leaving that out

183 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:39:39pm

re: #147 MandyManners

Are you saying it's evil to go after people who refuse to live peacefully with others?


The only right we all have is the right to defend ourselves and our loved ones against aggression, whether physical or verbal. There are accepted rules and boundaries within which such defence can be carried out.

When we decide that all parties to a particular group, (ie racial, religious, whatever) are guilty of the attack and deem them all worthy of a retaliation, this is vigilanty style justice. And it aint justice.

I find it particularly sickening that people,who call themselves Christians, are quick to express this urge to attack others when the only thing they have done or are, their belief, the colour of their skin, the ethnic/racial background. This is not the Christian way, it is not Christianity.

184 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:39:40pm

I sense that the same people who dO tHiNgS lIkE tHiS will cry victimhood when they get pinched for saying dumb or ignorant stuff, then ask if they should leave then ask Charles to delete their account. Just a feeling, don't know why...

185 Irish Rose  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:39:47pm

re: #176 Charles

to keep people from dOiNg tHiNgS lIkE tHiS.

... ow, my eyes.

186 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:40:05pm

re: #180 MandyManners

What?

That's old stuff that isn't true.

187 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:40:09pm
188 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:40:18pm

re: #178 countrygurl

Look at poor Aryan Hirsi. She was fleeing. And the Muslims in her adopted country were also fleeing persecution. Yet they are trying to kill her because she "left" the religion. Yes, I am opposed to the immigration of Muslims to America. Obama just signed an executive order #2009-15 allotting over $20 million dollars for the immigration of Palestinian refuges to USA. They will just continue their jihad here.

Do you really not see that you just contradicted yourself?

When Ayaan Hirsi Ali emigrated to Europe, SHE WAS A MUSLIM.

And that story about the executive order is a complete crock. The Bush administration did exactly the same thing, more than once. This is a standard international aid order, nothing more.

189 jones  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:40:34pm

re: #181 Nevergiveup

She should have listenedto Fred thompson-

"Yeah I have them but I'm not saying where."

190 albusteve  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:40:46pm

re: #182 Boondock St. Bender

even more so......I'm ashamed of my leaving that out

it's only a scratch!...you'll survive

191 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:41:17pm

re: #178 countrygurl

Then you would be barring people like my friend who refused to fight for hizbullah from having a safe haven. He can't go back to Lebanon because they'll kill him. He's only safe because he was able to come here.

192 albusteve  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:41:35pm

re: #168 Nevergiveup

What if they preach a form of insurrection calling for the overthrow of the Government?

good question...

193 Catttt  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:41:46pm

This guy also said that the 2/15/2009 post was his only post since last August. Not true.

194 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:41:55pm

re: #178 countrygurl

I do agree with you about the Palestinian "refuges". Palestinians should not be allowed in unless they can show themselves to be free of the death cult that is prevalent in Gaza and the West Bank.

195 jones  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:42:06pm

re: #192 albusteve


That is a behavior, not a religion.

196 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:42:15pm

HOUSEHOLDERS would be charged for each flush under a radical new toilet tax designed to help beat the drought.

[Link: www.news.com.au...]

Our friends from down under...Is this TRUE?

197 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:42:17pm
198 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:42:27pm

re: #183 A Kiwi Infidel

The only right we all have is the right to defend ourselves and our loved ones against aggression, whether physical or verbal. There are accepted rules and boundaries within which such defence can be carried out.

When we decide that all parties to a particular group, (ie racial, religious, whatever) are guilty of the attack and deem them all worthy of a retaliation, this is vigilanty style justice. And it aint justice.

I find it particularly sickening that people,who call themselves Christians, are quick to express this urge to attack others when the only thing they have done or are, their belief, the colour of their skin, the ethnic/racial background. This is not the Christian way, it is not Christianity.

I'm talking about people in specific who refuse to live peacefully with others and who do something about it.

199 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:42:33pm

countrygurl- you are damning innocent people with your religious bigotry.

200 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:43:13pm

re: #197 buzzsawmonkey

Doesn't insurrection by its nature call for overthrow of the government?

When my wife and daughters gang up against me .......

201 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:43:44pm

I'm glad to know that summergurl's assertion is not true.

202 Catttt  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:43:59pm

Religious tests for admittance to the US of A - very bad idea. Put on your thinking caps - you will see that this is a very bad idea.

203 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:44:24pm

re: #187 buzzsawmonkey

lol That was some photo

204 albusteve  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:44:27pm

re: #195 jones

That is a behavior, not a religion.

it was a question for someone else....anyway so one fulfills their obligations for residency then calls for or preaches insurrection...should they be deported

205 leap  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:44:27pm

One up-ding for Charles on #106.
No click on the link to the loser.
Being ignored after the lizard king links to you, heh.

206 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:44:32pm

re: #196 Nevergiveup

HOUSEHOLDERS would be charged for each flush under a radical new toilet tax designed to help beat the drought.

[Link: www.news.com.au...]

Our friends from down under...Is this TRUE?


At this stage it is only a "proposal". Exactly how you would police such a policy, once implemented, the mind boggles. Nice photo of Kenny, BTW.

207 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:44:42pm

re: #178 countrygurl


re: #194 Dark_Falcon

I do agree with you about the Palestinian "refuges". Palestinians should not be allowed in unless they can show themselves to be free of the death cult that is prevalent in Gaza and the West Bank.
GAZE

fixed

208 Catttt  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:44:50pm

re: #200 Nevergiveup

When my wife and daughters gang up against me .......

As my daddy always used to say, with a sigh - "Daddy's old hat got torn in two."

209 tradewind  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:45:23pm

re: #143 countrygurl

Well, it's pretty arbitrary.
From a strictly practical standpoint, until we get our immigration act together and know who the hell is here, I wish we wouldn't let anyone else in, nationality notwithstanding, unless they meet some fairly rigid guidelines, such as immediate family members who are citizens living here, or they bring with them a skill set /profession that the US needs. At least for a set time period, by which we should have developed some workable plan to keep tabs on who is here and where.

210 jones  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:45:41pm

re: #204 albusteve

After a sane and fair legal process- maybe.

211 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:46:10pm

re: #202 Catttt

Religious tests for admittance to the US of A - very bad idea. Put on your thinking caps - you will see that this is a very bad idea.

If I'm not mistaken, this country was founded by people fleeing religious persecution.

I agree with you, religious test for admittance is a really really bad idea.

212 A Kiwi Infidel  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:46:53pm

visitors.........

213 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:46:58pm

re: #209 tradewind

What about the persecuted?!

214 albusteve  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:47:02pm

re: #210 jones

After a sane and fair legal process- maybe.

why maybe?...calling for the overthrow of the fedreal govt is a crime...is there a shade of gray?

215 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:47:20pm

re: #211 Jetpilot1101

If I'm not mistaken, this country was founded by people fleeing religious persecution.

I agree with you, religious test for admittance is a really really bad idea.

Yes- yes it was!

216 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:47:40pm

re: #202 Catttt

agreed.This country has been a haven for many,some bad who brought their bad habits with them,many,many more who adopted their new country.

217 Catttt  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:48:20pm

Time for a reminder:

The New Colossus

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"

—Emma Lazarus, 1883

218 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:48:45pm

re: #210 jones

After a sane and fair legal process- maybe.

Agreed. If someone can be shown to have preached Jihad against the US(which means promotion armed insurrection) then they should indeed be deported following a fair hearing.

219 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:49:03pm
220 jones  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:49:11pm

re: #214 albusteve

Yes. If they are just saying there is a better system by peaceful means....I might disagree, but that isn't illegal

You get last word because I must go.

221 Pastorius  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:49:26pm

40% of Muslims in the UK want Sharia in the UK.

The more Muslims you allow to immigrate, the larger total number that 40% is going to comprise.

The immigration policy we have been following is a recipe for disaster/suicide.

222 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:49:55pm

The Democrats' stimulus plan would give a $400 tax cut to individuals and an $800 cut to couples. That boils down to an extra $13 a week for most workers starting in June, and would fall to about $8 extra per week next January.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

That would hardly pay for coffee?

223 M. Bensson-Levi  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:50:26pm

There is a recurring theme here. As soon as anyone is banned from LGF, Charles is suddenly transformed from a friend, and wise host, to an ego maniacal moronic liar. Happens every time, it seems.

There are points on which Charles and I disagree (chief amongst them is his passion for consuming huge quantities of Viagra, and Ambien together, which always struck me as negating the point of each, but I digress), which is normal between any two people, but after literally years of following his posts, it is evident that he has unimpeachable integrity. Period. End of story.

Agree with him, disagree with him, the man does not lie, nor does he compromise his standards of right and wrong, which are somewhat higher than my own.

I have never found Charles Johnson to lie about anything, which is more than I can say even about myself.

That's a hell of a good name Charles!

224 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:50:26pm
225 albusteve  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:50:28pm

re: #218 Dark_Falcon

Agreed. If someone can be shown to have preached Jihad against the US(which means promotion armed insurrection) then they should indeed be deported following a fair hearing.

agreed...that was easy

226 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:50:49pm
227 USBeast  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:51:07pm

re: #164 Walter L. Newton

Yes. Because we are a free country, with laws that we follow. We have legal immigration laws, and if a Muslim wants to enter this country legally, and they meet all the requirements, than it is fine.

Walter, I agree with you...up to a point. We have immigration laws that work on several levels; work visas, student visas, etc., but no one has the right to enter this country and insist on living under any law other than the Constitution of the United States.

228 NonNativeTexan  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:51:16pm

re: #219 buzzsawmonkey

Always worth an upding.

Yep,
Catttt is always good for some poetry.

229 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:51:17pm

Two more related stories:

Israel's Livni, who may end up leading that country, says that Israel will give up still more territory in the name of peace. All well and good, except that those with whom Israel is to supposedly make peace wants nothing of the sort, so it's past time to start treating the situation as it is, not as the diplomats wish it to be.

At the same time, the Arabs are busy complaining about how Israel has a nebulous relationship with nuclear weapons and hasn't admitted or denied its possession of nuclear weapons, even as others in the region (read: Iran, Saudis, etc.) look for nukes of their own. Problem for the IAEA and elBaraedi is that Israel's weapons are for defense - while the Arabs would either a) use them on Israel at the first opportunity and wipe out Israel in a genocidal pique; or b) use them on fellow Muslims - Iranian Shi'ites as revenge for thousand years of persecution at hands of Sunni majorities, or vice versa. Throw in religious obligations, terrorists craving martyrdom, and genocidal and ideologically indoctrinated leaders who want to bring about the apocalypse to fulfill their religious visions and elBaraedi is just providing yet another excuse for proliferation in a region that already sees Iran on the cusp of nuclear weapons.

230 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:51:28pm

I agree we need to improve our immigration system, but not by adding bigotry. I think anyone advocating such needs to think of the vast number of worthy contributors to American society that would have been screwed if such a bigoted system had been in place when their families arrived here.

231 Irish Rose  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:51:39pm

re: #222 Nevergiveup

The Democrats' stimulus plan would give a $400 tax cut to individuals and an $800 cut to couples. That boils down to an extra $13 a week for most workers starting in June, and would fall to about $8 extra per week next January.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

That would hardly pay for coffee?

13 bucks a week, whoop-dee-doo.

232 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:51:52pm

re: #213 Sharmuta

What about the persecuted?!

Doesn't the US already have a provision to let them come?

233 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:52:04pm

I can't believe I just gave Space Jesus an upding, but I did agree with him.

234 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:52:11pm

re: #223 M. Bensson-Levi

hear!hear!

235 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:52:26pm

re: #227 USBeast

Walter, I agree with you...up to a point. We have immigration laws that work on several levels; work visas, student visas, etc., but no one has the right to enter this country and insist on living under any law other than the Constitution of the United States.

I agree, and I never said otherwise.

236 Bloodnok  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:53:13pm

re: #223 M. Bensson-Levi

Upding for the post (and for letting us know about the Viagra and Ambien).

237 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:53:19pm

Make your words sweet, for someday you may have to eat them.

238 Buster Bunny  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:53:28pm

I'd be chiming in for my piece of gamey troll buttock if it wasnt proven to be already two days old.

Thats too gamey for me.

239 lawhawk  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:53:42pm

re: #147 MandyManners

No. I'm saying it's evil to be one of those who perpetrates such acts (engaging in evil, subjugating others, etc.) We live in a nation where freedom of speech and freedom of religion are critical and central to our liberty, and a vigorous defense of both requires speaking out against the likes of elkafir.

240 TheMatrix31  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:54:27pm

re: #222 Nevergiveup

The Democrats' stimulus plan would give a $400 tax cut to individuals and an $800 cut to couples. That boils down to an extra $13 a week for most workers starting in June, and would fall to about $8 extra per week next January.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

That would hardly pay for coffee?

So wait, I don't get it. This is going to be some incremental "credit" and not a rebate check like last time?

241 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:55:33pm

re: #240 TheMatrix31

So wait, I don't get it. This is going to be some incremental "credit" and not a rebate check like last time?

I think it's actually in the form of a tax "break"?

242 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:55:53pm

Once, I quoted Ms. Coulter's famous statement regarding the world of Islam. I was deleted.

Today, I understand with much, much greater clarity.

(IIRC, my only deleted comment in five years at LGF).

Thank you, Charles.

243 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:56:01pm

re: #232 MandyManners

I'm asking if those commenting on new immigration standards would allow for it.

244 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:56:02pm

Interesting that none of the major right-wing bloggers want to touch the Ann Coulter story.

And very noticeable.

245 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:56:09pm

re: #233 EmmmieG

I can't believe I just gave Space Jesus an upding, but I did agree with him.

You get an upding for being honest.

246 jwb7605  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:56:19pm

re: #194 Dark_Falcon

I do agree with you about the Palestinian "refuges". Palestinians should not be allowed in unless they can show themselves to be free of the death cult that is prevalent in Gaza and the West Bank.

Exactly what would your test be comprised of?
I feel dumber and frustrated for having actually read that comment.

247 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:56:31pm

re: #240 TheMatrix31

So wait, I don't get it. This is going to be some incremental "credit" and not a rebate check like last time?

Give the man a cigar. And when this sinks in with all the bark eaters, their heads are going to explode.

248 Irish Rose  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:56:40pm

re: #240 TheMatrix31

So wait, I don't get it. This is going to be some incremental "credit" and not a rebate check like last time?

Yes. The theory is that you're going to put that 13 bucks back into the economy immediately, instead of hoarding it in a savings account.

249 albusteve  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:56:46pm

re: #230 Sharmuta

I agree we need to improve our immigration system, but not by adding bigotry. I think anyone advocating such needs to think of the vast number of worthy contributors to American society that would have been screwed if such a bigoted system had been in place when their families arrived here.

I agree in principle of course but how do we keep militant Islamists out of the country?...wouldn't we have to profile and thereby open ourselves to accusations of bigotry?...is there a solution or is it a Catch 22?

250 Nevergiveup  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:56:55pm

Virgin Rail Bans Kissing at English Train Station

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

And who is behind this crap?

251 Catttt  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:56:59pm

re: #238 Buster Bunny

I'd be chiming in for my piece of gamey troll buttock if it wasnt proven to be already two days old.

Thats too gamey for me.

Can I interest you in some rare 1,000-year-old gamey buttock? /

252 Buster Bunny  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:57:05pm

re: #242 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Once, I quoted Ms. Coulter's famous statement regarding the world of Islam. I was deleted.

Today, I understand with much, much greater clarity.

(IIRC, my only deleted comment in five years at LGF).

Thank you, Charles.

That makes you a redeemed Lizard !

Born-Again?

253 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:57:06pm

re: #244 Charles

Interesting that none of the major right-wing bloggers want to touch the Ann Coulter story.

And very noticeable.

They know the comment whiplash that would come.

254 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:57:14pm

re: #248 Irish Rose

Hiya Rose...(purrrrr)

255 countrygurl  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:57:20pm

re: #201 MandyManners

[Link: edocket.access.gpo.gov...]

256 TheMatrix31  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:57:32pm

re: #241 Nevergiveup

I think it's actually in the form of a tax "break"?

I have no idea. So it's 13 dollars less that will go to taxes off my check or something?

257 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:57:36pm
258 Irish Rose  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:57:37pm

re: #244 Charles

Interesting that none of the major right-wing bloggers want to touch the Ann Coulter story.

And very noticeable.

You're not really surprised, are you?

259 USBeast  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:57:38pm

"Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free"

Once upon a time that was true. Now it should read: "Your muddled asses yearning to breed free."

260 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:57:50pm

re: #244 Charles

They must still be shocked. It took me a little bit, but hey, facts is facts. After Spencer, now Coulter... but hey, it's for the best. It's only been a few days, no?

261 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:58:15pm

re: #252 Buster Bunny

That makes you a redeemed Lizard !

Born-Again?

Not really. Just a Lizard that that has learned that words do have meaning.

262 TheMatrix31  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:58:18pm

re: #248 Irish Rose

Yes. The theory is that you're going to put that 13 bucks back into the economy immediately, instead of hoarding it in a savings account.

Great. More money to blow on food to get me overweight.

263 Irish Rose  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:58:31pm

re: #254 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hiya Rose...(purrrrr)

Hiya, FBV ;).

264 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:58:40pm
265 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:58:52pm

re: #239 lawhawk

No. I'm saying it's evil to be one of those who perpetrates such acts (engaging in evil, subjugating others, etc.) We live in a nation where freedom of speech and freedom of religion are critical and central to our liberty, and a vigorous defense of both requires speaking out against the likes of elkafir.

Thanks for explaining. I was confused.

266 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:59:04pm

re: #244 Charles

Interesting that none of the major right-wing bloggers want to touch the Ann Coulter story.

And very noticeable.

Charles, I don't know if you caught my comments last night, but I did email all the material to Jon Caldera, who is a very good friend of Coulter's and someone who I know.

I did that hoping that in the least, this would rattle someone's cage.

I'm waiting for an answer. Jon also has a nightly 3 hour talk show on Clear Channel 50 thousand watt KOA in Denver, so, I don't know if this would become a topic or not. I will be listening just in case.

267 SummerSong  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:59:20pm

"And when I was sick enough of it, just like like many of my fellow ex co-citizens I took up arms and sent the piece of shit communist dictator together with his butt-ugly and evil wife to hell".

Eh?

268 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:59:29pm

re: #244 Charles

perhaps they fear the acid tongued repercussions.

269 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:59:38pm

re: #244 Charles

Interesting that none of the major right-wing bloggers want to touch the Ann Coulter story.

And very noticeable.

Why not?

270 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 5:59:58pm

re: #257 thgrant

Totally, and, absolutely... Fuck You.

271 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:00:07pm

re: #257 thgrant

A fascist and a misogynist! Fuck you!

272 tradewind  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:00:15pm

re: #244 Charles

Probably has something to do with their carefully considering the percentage of glass in their dwellings, and waiting with their casting stones to see how others are doing.

273 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:00:28pm

re: #257 thgrant

Why is this guy back?

274 yochanan  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:00:29pm

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

THIS IS A GOOD READ.

275 Mich-again  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:00:29pm

re: #257 thgrant

I'm a male. I'd be better off in a Muslim society than this one cause in this one I actually have to compete with women for jobs and shit, but in Islamic society, that won't be an issue.

Knock yourself out.

276 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:00:47pm

re: #257 thgrant

Full meltdown worthy of a creationist thread. I suggest valium.

277 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:01:01pm

re: #257 thgrant

I'd be better off in a Muslim society than this one cause in this one I actually have to compete with women for jobs and shit, but in Islamic society, that won't be an issue.

Seriously- go fuck yourself.

278 jwb7605  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:01:01pm

re: #264 Iron Fist

Upding. Very well reasoned argument.

279 JHW  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:01:36pm

Do these people ever think through the implications of the fantasies they advocate, the actual measures that would have to be taken to get to the result they desire? If they do it's even worse, but the actual measures that would have to be taken are so delusional they're like fascist porn or science fiction.

The banning of the Koran occasionally comes up in this sort of mental masturbation, when 1 second's worth of reflection should show what a useless delusion it is. The most memorized book in the world, the availability of internet texts alone should show the futility of such nonsense, let alone the moral and legal issues. Ban it, and thousands of calligraphers will come forth, as they have before. This foolishness, or worse, isn't the way to fight extremism.

280 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:02:09pm

re: #246 jwb7605

Please read my #218. I retract my #194 in its entirety.

281 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:02:09pm

re: #257 thgrant

So, according to Charles, we can't do anything except expose these Muslims for the barbaric bastards that they are, except that is racist!

Islam is not a race.

282 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:02:18pm

re: #276 Jetpilot1101

I prefer the less vulgar "go have carnal relations with yourself preferably with a chainsaw" but yours will do quite nicely.

283 Killian Bundy  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:02:58pm

Wants the stick it does.

/Yoda

284 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:03:01pm

re: #257 thgrant

GAZE

285 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:03:29pm
286 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:04:04pm

re: #257 thgrant

And your solution would be?

287 grahamski  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:04:06pm

Hahaha....pwnd!

288 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:04:07pm

Way to go thgrant. Just get it all out.

289 MandyManners  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:04:12pm

Oh, it's gone.

290 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:04:27pm

re: #257 thgrant

And best of all, Charles won't oppose me, except by talking.

Not quite true. I can oppose you by bidding you adieu.

291 Jetpilot1101  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:04:40pm

This comment:

re: #282 Jetpilot1101

I prefer the less vulgar "go have carnal relations with yourself preferably with a chainsaw" but yours will do quite nicely.

was meant as a reply to Sharmuta's

re: #277 Sharmuta

Seriously- go fuck yourself.

292 Dan G.  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:04:49pm

re: #253 Thanos

Cowards.

293 Bleepless  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:05:35pm

Charles, good sir, this is your turf and you can allow entrance, or refuse it, to anyone at all. Nobody has a legal or moral right to join the festivities.

294 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:06:04pm

Wow! The entire thread shakes when that happens!

295 Boondock St. Bender  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:06:48pm

re: #290 Charles

BANG!BANG! Stinkys' hammer came down upon his head.

296 Digital Display  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:07:10pm

re: #294 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Wow! The entire thread shakes when that happens!

LOL Good one

297 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:07:39pm
298 lostlakehiker  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:07:55pm

re: #128 Perplexed

Destroying the freedoms we have in an effort to control the people results in a very slippery slope towards totalitarianism. Lots of people have taken an oath to protect our country against enemies both foreign and domestic. Who declares someone an enemy of the country?

The oath commits the taker to defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and to obey all lawful orders etc.

Givers of lawful orders, up the chain of command, make that declaration. Theoretically, a situation could arise in which the conscience rebelled against an order. Then, under the terms of the oath, you'd have to work it out from first principles, whether that order was in defense of the constitution, or an attack on it and thus an unlawful order.

If it was still a lawful order, you'd be duty bound to carry it out, and if your conscience absolutely wouldn't stand for that, to take your punishment without whinging or evasion. If in your judgment it was not, you'd have to refuse as a matter of conscience. But someone else might then carry out the order, and you might be punished.

Extreme situations are incalculable and there's no use trying to think them out ahead of time; I won't bother to try to suggest answers or even a method for arriving at decisions.

A couple of cabinet officers in Nixon's cabinet resigned rather than fire special prosecutor Archibald Cox on Nixon's orders. That was a civilian matter and not subject to the terms of the military oath, but the spirit of the thing is similar and the oath one takes upon accepting any high office in the Federal Government probably has similar wording about upholding and defending the constitution.

Toward the end of that scandal, arrangements were quietly put into effect instructing officers everywhere in the nuclear chain of command to not accept orders that departed from the regular chain of command. No bomber pilot was to just take off and let fly on the direct say-so of the president, for example.

299 Catttt  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:08:14pm

re: #257 thgrant

I pity the women of any society you find yourself a part of.

300 jaunte  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:08:15pm

You can't trust a fascist.
The true fascist is frustrated that he can't fight what he sees as a power that holds unfair advantages, so in extremis, he will abandon his previously stated principles and embrace his former enemy. Because wielding power is really all that he cares about.

301 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:08:56pm

re: #290 Charles

Not quite true. I can oppose you by bidding you adieu.

Another fascist meltdown. The way thgrant was carrying on, the final meltdown comes as no surprise.

302 Abu Lahab  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:09:59pm
re: #257 thgrant
And best of all, Charles won't oppose me, except by talking.

That was VERY stupid. LOL

303 USBeast  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:10:03pm

re: #268 Boondock St. Bender

perhaps they fear the acid tongued repercussions.

Oh for crying out loud, the Right wing media would love to become the new WWF. Too much of their rhetoric already mimics wrestling bombast. Imagine O'Reilly challenging Coulter to a cage match.

304 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:10:10pm

Good night, all !

305 Buster Bunny  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:11:14pm

re: #257 thgrant

Wow .. gamey Troll buttock thats fresh ...

fruit cup to go with that?

306 lostlakehiker  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:12:25pm

re: #249 albusteve

I agree in principle of course but how do we keep militant Islamists out of the country?...wouldn't we have to profile and thereby open ourselves to accusations of bigotry?...is there a solution or is it a Catch 22?

We could cut out a lot of the family reunion provisions, and limit ourselves to immigrants we actually want because they have job skills that are in short supply. Airplane pilots who know both how to take off and land, for example.

307 Perplexed  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:13:59pm

'Night all. Long day of driving coupled with failures at customer site.

308 irongrampa  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:19:40pm

re: #303 USBeast

Unconfuse me here. What is the Right Wing Media you mention? No snark, that's a serious question.

309 quickjustice  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:23:28pm

I have to say, Charles, that you have the best online police force in the blogosphere!

310 Render  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:23:44pm

No way are Malkin or Horowitz going to mention this, they're both in too deep already.

C'mon boss, fire full salvos. Steele needs the help.

LIGHT UP
THE SKY,
R

311 Randall Gross  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:24:16pm

re: #292 Dan G.

Cowards.

The bigots in the neoconfederacy are as vituperatively loud as they are persistent.

312 lostlakehiker  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:24:47pm

re: #264 Iron Fist

I'm not sure I follow you. I'm trying to. Are you saying that people's personalities, for want of a better word, are genetic? That seems a bit of a stretch. Even if you give genetics some effects (or at least predilection) towards some forms of behavior, I don't see how you control for differences in nurture, circumstances, personal choices, etc. They can control for genetics using seperated twins studies (but how many of those "seperated at birth twins" are there really out there, but it simply can't be very many.

It isn't as though physicans could deliberately seperate twins at birth in order to have some experimental subjects later in their life.

Nevertheless, a person may (foe example) have genes for alcoholism (there appears to be some genetics involved there), but if that person never starts drinking to begin with, they will never become an alcoholic.

People may have genetics for depression, but that doesn't mean you can do a genetic test for suicides (successful or potential). There are many, many counterexamples.

Even if there is some genetic component to some personality traits, it would be difficult, if not impossible, to prove it experimentally. Correlation is not causation, even in genetics.

People's personalities are shaped by both genetics and other forces. I am saying that it has been experimentally proved that genetics plays an important part. The book by Oakley gives you a good start on the subject.

Our minds are easier to wrap around single-causation narratives, but many things are affected by multiple causative forces. Personality is a case in point. One of the forces is genetic.

Identical twins separated at birth and raised far apart in very different environments do not necessarily have the same personality. But they are much more likely to have similar personalities than fraternal twins similarly separated at birth, and still more likely than two people chosen at random. What, other than genetics, COULD be the cause of this correlation? Causation, especially contributions to causation when there are multiple forces at work, is much easier to discern when we're talking about averages than when we're talking about individuals. Just as it's easier to predict the average temperature in July for Denver in 2009 than to predict the temperature at 4PM on July 4 at the stadium. The sun isn't the only cause of weather, but it's an important contributing factor.

313 SpaceJesus  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:30:23pm

re: #161 Iron Fist

I guess you missed that whole Iraq War thingy. You know, where you saw Mohammedan suicide-bombers blowing themselves up to kill other Muslims. You know, the anti-muslim Jihad.


Apparently you didn't get the memo that those suicide bombers were Sunnis attacking Shia Muslims, so technically they were waging an anti-Shia jihad.

Also, has anyone since 1327 actually ever used the word Muhammedean to describe Muslims?

314 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:39:36pm

The "dual" or "secret" loyalty part, of course, is one of the many libels used down the ages against the Jews.

Turning around and hurling it against Muslims as a group doesn't make one look very bright.

315 Render  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:42:54pm

re: #313 spacejesus

Is it your misguided contention that Sunni terrorists and suicide bombers attacked only Shia and did not attack other Sunni Moslem's? The Anbar Awakening would disagree with you, and those tribes went to war to prove it.

Sunni based al-Q in Pakistan sometimes attacks the Shia minority inside Pakistan, but mostly they attack the Sunni majority that controls Pakistan.

A SLIGHT
CASE OF
OVERBOMBING,
R

316 Aye Pod  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:43:48pm

ElKafir, giving a masterclass in the art of self destruction.

1)Stake your whole reputation on an easily refuted lie, a lie about someone who has a reputation for ruthlessly fact checking spurious claims and exposing lies.

2)Wait a little while.

317 dwdw49  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:44:05pm

he is, of course, over the top. but, is it too much to ask a potential immigrant to swear an oath, that he believes in freedom and will defend freedom, before being allowed in? what would this do? simply, if after being here for awhile the new immigrant decides that all men are not created equal, it would offer a rational excuse to deport him.

natural born citizens we can't do anything about. they are here, they can think anything they want. but a sane society (organism) would not invite a cancer into its midst.

this is the land of the free, the home of freedom. if you want to be a part and promote freedom, you are welcome. if not, stay home.

318 USBeast  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:44:19pm

re: #308 irongrampa

Unconfuse me here. What is the Right Wing Media you mention? No snark, that's a serious question.

Well, you've got Fox News for starters, add CBN and then add Rush and any number of so-called Conservative radio gas bags.

319 calcajun  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:48:44pm

You know, I had hoped that the lost art of letter writing would be reborn with the advent of e-mail. That people would take the time to form their thoughts with care, construct well-reasoned themes on the foundation of a cogent theses, properly formed sentences shaped into strong paragraphs.

Alas. Instead of this, we have a delivery system for prosaic hand-grenades, tossed from behind an electronic veil of anonymity. We forgot that our ideas--and words--have consequences. Another concept no longer taught in our schools.

But, in another sense, this is nothing new. Vitriolic attacks from behind a pseudonym go back to the early days of this country. Hamilton, writing under the pen name "Catullus" wrote his attacks on Jefferson and his former collaborator, Madison. So, in a sense, we are continuing a tradition of the political history of our country.

320 calcajun  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:50:07pm

re: #317 dwdw49

he is, of course, over the top. but, is it too much to ask a potential immigrant to swear an oath, that he believes in freedom and will defend freedom, before being allowed in? what would this do? simply, if after being here for awhile the new immigrant decides that all men are not created equal, it would offer a rational excuse to deport him.

natural born citizens we can't do anything about. they are here, they can think anything they want. but a sane society (organism) would not invite a cancer into its midst.

this is the land of the free, the home of freedom. if you want to be a part and promote freedom, you are welcome. if not, stay home.

He was over the top--for 2007. We all heard a lot of this in the hours and days after 9/11. I had half expected internment camps to be set up.

321 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 6:58:15pm

re: #260 BigPapa

After Spencer, now Coulter...

Now Coulter? You thought she was just peachy until she cuddled up to the CCC? She's been off in orbit around her own little asteroid of hate since before Bush ever got elected.

It would, however, be interesting to know what Spencer makes of all this.

322 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 7:03:34pm

re: #321 Cato the Elder

She might have been. Some of her more ascerbic points were made seemingly for shock value and laughs, at least what I saw. But fair enough, she may have said some stuff that I missed.

This, however, isn't funny. My perception of her changed, not for the better.

323 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 7:05:24pm

re: #317 dwdw49

What good is a loyalty oath when people can lie?

324 SpaceJesus  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 7:06:08pm

re: #315 Render

Is it your misguided contention that Sunni terrorists and suicide bombers attacked only Shia and did not attack other Sunni Moslem's? The Anbar Awakening would disagree with you, and those tribes went to war to prove it.

Sunni based al-Q in Pakistan sometimes attacks the Shia minority inside Pakistan, but mostly they attack the Sunni majority that controls Pakistan.

A SLIGHT
CASE OF
OVERBOMBING,
R


oh, so you mean a tribal conflict and not a religious one?

look at your own facts before you say things.

325 Jim708  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 7:10:59pm

And now he is accusing you of making up the entire thing Charles.

You must be incredibly bored to pick out one member at random and re-write large tracts of the site from two years ago, just to make him look bad.

326 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 7:13:46pm

re: #322 BigPapa

She might have been. Some of her more ascerbic points were made seemingly for shock value and laughs, at least what I saw. But fair enough, she may have said some stuff that I missed.

This, however, isn't funny. My perception of her changed, not for the better.

Well, better late than never. Give Big Mama a hug for me!

327 solomonpanting  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 7:14:40pm

re: #325 Jim708

Did you forget a sarc tag?

328 tradewind  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 7:18:44pm

White supremacist scumbag alert:
No ties to Christian fundamentalists, here....
[Link: www.thestarpress.com...]

329 Cato the Elder  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 7:20:13pm

re: #328 tradewind

White supremacist scumbag alert:
No ties to Christian fundamentalists, here....
[Link: www.thestarpress.com...]

Russian immigration must be stopped.

/

330 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 7:20:29pm

re: #326 Cato the Elder

Mrs BigPapa lets me be late, but I'm never too late...

Hey, I can't say that I agree with everything Coulter ever said because I didn't hear her say everything she said, plus she can get running. But whats on the table now, I don't know if she can come back from that.

331 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 7:25:29pm

re: #143 countrygurl

I just wish we wouldn't let any more Muslims into this country. Is that so wrong?

Yeah, basically.

332 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 7:29:19pm

re: #325 Jim708

And now he is accusing you of making up the entire thing Charles.

You must be incredibly bored to pick out one member at random and re-write large tracts of the site from two years ago, just to make him look bad.

Pathetic.

333 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 7:30:29pm

I was willing to give this jerk the benefit of the doubt and assume he just forgot about that post, but now it's quite clear that he was deliberately lying.

334 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 7:38:34pm

I've now restored the rest of "ElKafir's" comments in that thread, so the full context is visible.

335 Sharmuta  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 7:41:05pm

re: #325 Jim708

And now he is accusing you of making up the entire thing Charles.

You must be incredibly bored to pick out one member at random and re-write large tracts of the site from two years ago, just to make him look bad.

He's been "spencered" huh? What a loser.

336 Basho  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 7:41:25pm

re: #62 SpaceJesus

This comment got ten updings as of this writing.

For shame, SpaceJesus...

337 Kronocide  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 7:42:53pm

re: #336 Basho

This comment got ten updings as of this writing.

Uh... why?

338 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 7:43:47pm

re: #279 JHW

Do these people ever think through the implications of the fantasies they advocate, the actual measures that would have to be taken to get to the result they desire? If they do it's even worse, but the actual measures that would have to be taken are so delusional they're like fascist porn or science fiction.

The banning of the Koran occasionally comes up in this sort of mental masturbation, when 1 second's worth of reflection should show what a useless delusion it is. The most memorized book in the world, the availability of internet texts alone should show the futility of such nonsense, let alone the moral and legal issues. Ban it, and thousands of calligraphers will come forth, as they have before. This foolishness, or worse, isn't the way to fight extremism.

Not to mention the fact that banning religious texts is, well, basically, wrong.

339 theblakester  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 7:48:55pm

Charles, this is why your site is so respected in my opinion. You will always be the Great Gate Keeper. May peace be upon him.

340 Alberta Oil Peon  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 8:16:58pm

re: #323 Sharmuta

What good is a loyalty oath when people can lie?

Breach of the loyalty oath would presumably be an offense which could lead to deportation.

Personally, I think immigrants to a country should be required to sign a contract, wherein they undertake to become a good citizen of that country, and to meet certain goals, and also to abandon or disavow certain unsavory practices endemic in their country of origin. Substantial breach or non-performance of the contract would be grounds for deportation.

And no, I sure don't advocate a vast and costly bureaucracy to monitor all this. But if an individual comes to the attention of the police because, say, he hacks his wife's head off, then that act could be deemed to be non-performance of the "good citizen" requirement.

In any case, it's the performance or lack thereof of the individual that should be paramount.

341 LieSeeker  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 8:28:11pm
And of course, now he’s accusing me of a grand conspiracy to smear him, by altering my database. Pathetic.


Too bad you're blocking archive.org from archiving your site. Now they don't have an independent copy you could present.

But, as you said, others reacted to his comment at the time. Ask him what other awful thing he said instead of this. Is he willing to invent another bad thing in order to maintain his claim?

342 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 8:36:24pm
343 Irish Rose  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 8:43:15pm

re: #325 Jim708

And now he is accusing you of making up the entire thing Charles.

You must be incredibly bored to pick out one member at random and re-write large tracts of the site from two years ago, just to make him look bad.

Oh, brother.

344 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 8:54:19pm

re: #341 LieSeeker

Too bad you're blocking archive.org from archiving your site. Now they don't have an independent copy you could present.

But, as you said, others reacted to his comment at the time. Ask him what other awful thing he said instead of this. Is he willing to invent another bad thing in order to maintain his claim?

I don't have to prove anything more, and if you really think there's a possibility I spent hours doctoring my database just for this moron, you're deluded.

345 Kailen  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 9:28:36pm

A little late to the party, but I just got home.

re: #106 Charles

[...]There is no way in hell that you can uproot millions of people, most of whom have done nothing wrong, and throw them all out of the country, without committing mass violence. People will resist this with all their hearts.

And not just Muslims. Decent Americans wouldn't stand for it.[...]

America's done it before. World War II, Japanese internment camps. Brought to us by the icon of the left wing, FDR, may he rot in Hell.

With enough propaganda, people will allow anything. People will believe anything. It's how many despot leaders have come to power. It's how many delusional souls in this country think our previous president was a drooling retard. It's how the current president got elected. It's how the U.N. has become an anti-Semitic cesspool, how the world sees Israel as evil and Mahmoud Imgonnastartajihad as a victim. It's how people believe Cuba to be a paradise with the best medical care in the world.

I could go on. But the point has been made. Welcome to the Disinformation Age.

346 evilerac  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 9:40:26pm

Completely off topic....
I am sad to say, there is a lot more internally generated drama in the conservative arena than I've ever seen...I mean we've always had drama but back in the recent past it was the "screw them" Ko's kids and the rest of the nut roots, us versus them - and they were pretty nutty (remember the mentos commercial?) and we could all agree on that. BUT, lately with creationism, ann coulter, and now the hannity/ SPLC scary guest....*sigh* I rarely comment, but it seems like a very fractured conservative movement lately.

I may not always agree with you Charles, but I appreciate how you stick to your principles by writing about these things when they are contrary to what you think is right. That is not an easy thing to do, especially now with conservatives in the minority and how tempting it would be to just overlook these things for unity's sake.

347 mad mullah  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 9:45:38pm

I don't know how common it is for blogs or forums to have the function where deleted messages are still retained, but it certainly seems like a useful feature to have.

348 hazzyday  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 10:06:42pm

re: #244 Charles

Interesting that none of the major right-wing bloggers want to touch the Ann Coulter story.

And very noticeable.

It's a leading edge concept to them and they will blink. From the VB articles, I recognized those ads for what they were. There are a lot of people out there including some bloggers that will courtesy to Stormfront via CCC like Ann Coulter did. They would prefer not have to acknowledge it and then make a choice. It's dirty laundry.

Cpac would be well to follow the direction of the blog here. Letting the CCC into their meeting via Ann Coulter and others will be setting themselves up in the next election. It's something they can't avoid once people have consciousness of it. It should be pointed out to their leadership and the PR around the CPAC meeting.

There should be no easy out for the White Nationalists. Michelle Malkin should be extra sensitive to this. She's been the object of a lot of racist epithets from the left and the right. It's in her best interest for the CPAC to have some standards.

349 Render  Mon, Feb 16, 2009 11:40:17pm

re: #324 SpaceJesus

Anbar Province? It would have been well nigh impossible for it not to have been a tribal conflict, in the sense that tribes and clans account for the vast majority of the local population. The Awakening itself was tribal based and conceived.

Of course most of the terrorist attacks were acts of religious terrorism. Disagreement over moot religious points constitutes the vast majority of the differences between the various tribes/clans and al-Q takes those disagreements very seriously.

We also see 254,000 Muslim Iraqi soldiers, drawn from all of the tribes, clans, and sects fighting alongside our own. Is it a religious war for them?

My facts are well looked at.

MILLION
WAY
SUNDAY,
R

350 Jim708  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 2:00:11am

And yes, there was a /sarc tag missing from my 325 post. Sorry bout that!

351 marsl  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 5:17:51am

Charles, you 're right.
We cannot defend our liberties by suppressing them.
Giving ourselves to fascists in order to defeat the islamofascists would be a tragic mistake. We can only defeat the islamofascists by spreading our liberties. For example, Iraq should be an oasis of freedom in the Arab world. And when the people in the other Arab states starts to see what is to live in freedom, they will demand it too.
The fascists are a unwanted allied in the struggle against the oppression of the islamofascists.
I don't like to see people banned, but in the case of the fascists, i make an exception.

352 Redbear  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 5:35:23am

re: #125 lostlakehiker


We can live without the evildoers, but we cannot live without the genes that, in excess and in combination with developmental accidents, chance, fate, and free will, code up a brain that's biased toward that sort of thing. The perfectly good-gene person is a naif, a chump, a sucker. Pig, from Pearls before Swine the comic strip.

This concept is expressed nicely in a Star Trek episode - A transporter malfunction causes James Kirk to be separated into two people - a good kirk and a bad kirk. The bad kirk loses all ability to see consequences to his actions. The good kirk cannot make any actions at all.
It requires both parts of a person to function properly - (well balanced of course).

And the Chinese yin/yang symbol also expresses this thought well.

353 Kreon  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 5:59:28am

re: #106 Charles

....There is no way in hell that you can uproot millions of people, most of whom have done nothing wrong, and throw them all out of the country, without committing mass violence. People will resist this with all their hearts.

And not just Muslims. Decent Americans wouldn't stand for it....

Last sentence looks like "Muslims" (implied - American Muslims?) and "Decent Americans" are separated into two categories. Not a carefully constructed phrase. Please do not ban me.

re: #333 Charles

I was willing to give this jerk the benefit of the doubt and assume he just forgot about that post, but now it's quite clear that he was deliberately lying.

I still think originally he simply forgot he wrote that, and now does not have the balls to admit it. Unless someone used his computer to post that comment? Doubtful.

re: #242 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

....IIRC, my only deleted comment in five years at LGF....

How would one know how many of his/her comments have been deleted? Are you getting some kind of a warning when it happens?

354 Charles Johnson  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 8:23:09am

re: #353 Kreon

Last sentence looks like "Muslims" (implied - American Muslims?) and "Decent Americans" are separated into two categories. Not a carefully constructed phrase. Please do not ban me.

The two are not mutually exclusive. And people don't get banned simply for pointing out something like that.

355 Kreon  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 9:32:06am

re: #354 Charles

Good to know, thanks Charles:)

Maybe next version of the blog will have a system of "yellow cards" - post one offensive comment that gets deleted - get one yellow card that is displayed next to your nick everywhere on this site. Reach three cards and get banned. Cards expire in one month, unless the poster is already banned by that expiration time.

356 Mambo Bananapatch  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 11:34:30am

re: #245 pre-Boomer Marine brat

You get an upding for being honest.

And you get one for recognizing and rewarding honesty.

I hope I get one now.

357 KosherWineGuy  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 11:42:31am

Charles,

I don't see what was so terrible about what he said. Why was expressing his opinion about deporting Moslems not allowed?

L'Shalom,

Rafi

358 Yashmak  Tue, Feb 17, 2009 11:50:11am

re: #357 KosherWineGuy

Charles,

I don't see what was so terrible about what he said. Why was expressing his opinion about deporting Moslems not allowed?

L'Shalom,

Rafi

How about, because those suggestions are about the same as suggesting that the Jews get loaded up into boxcars and sent off to camps. If you have any more questions about it, I suggest you read Charles post "Silly Mission Statement of the Day". That should clarify it for you.

359 snopercod  Wed, Feb 18, 2009 6:06:27am

re: #354 Charles

Free Republic has a new member (November) ElKafir. It could be the same person.


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