France Finally Admits Role in Holocaust

WorldFebruary 2009 • Views: 3,274

It took them 67 years, but France is finally admitting their responsibility for the deportation of Jews in World War II.

France’s highest court has recognised the state’s “responsibility” for the deportation of Jews in World War II.

The Council of State said the state had permitted or facilitated deportations that led to anti-Semitic persecution without being coerced by the occupiers.

But the council also found reparations had since been made “as much as was possible, for all the losses suffered”.

Correspondents say the ruling is the clearest such recognition of the French state’s role in the Holocaust.

Between 1942 and 1944 some 76,000 Jews were deported from France by the Vichy government in collaboration with the German occupying army.

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81 comments

Ward Cleaver Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:41:43am

It's about time. Sadly, some of France's newer residents are wishing for a repeat.

bushleague Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:42:53am

I wonder if the "youths" of Paris will have any response to this.....

yma o hyd Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:43:18am

re: #1 Ward Cleaver

It's about time. Sadly, some of France's newer residents are wishing for a repeat.

Yeah - but the court also said that there won't be any more reparations, as France had paid 'enough' ...

VegasRick Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:43:28am

re: #2 bushleague

I wonder if the "youths" of Paris will have any response to this.....

Usual car-b-que.

razorbacker Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:43:30am

Are they 'admitting responsibility' or revealing the blueprint?

pre-Boomer Marine brat Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:43:37am

The money sentence:

The state's actions were not the result of "direct constraints put upon it by the occupying force", it added.

smokefire Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:44:06am

re: #2 bushleague

................yeah, destruction, screaming, and car burnings.
You have to ask?

harrylook Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:44:34am

I'm happy my French mother-in-law, orphaned by the Holocaust when her mother was shipped off to Ravensbrook, lived to see this.

Oh no...Sand People! Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:44:39am

Tragedy is that they are saving this in template form. Change some dates and names etc.
/

crown_of_feathers Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:44:48am

Gee, that's nice.

Just in time for the French (and European) Left to help demonize Israel, and prepare the way for the NEXT Holocaust.

SasquatchOnSteroids Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:45:10am

re: #5 razorbacker

Are they 'admitting responsibility' or revealing the blueprint?

It's a high-level hand washing.
So they won't feel so guilty.
Effers...

Kragar Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:45:51am

What Holocaust?

/French "Immigrants", Muslim leaders, etc etc

smokefire Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:45:53am

It's a high-level hand washing.

Sorry the French do not wash their hands.

VegasRick Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:46:11am

re: #6 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The money sentence:

Typical Fwance response, surrender before even being asked to. Give up your people instead of defending them. Disgusting.

yma o hyd Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:46:11am

re: #6 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The money sentence:

Interesting, that - especially in view of the fact that it took about 60 years for the French to acknowledge that not the whole population was actually active in 'La Resistance' ... quite to the contrary ...

pre-Boomer Marine brat Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:46:52am

Those tremors are Pétain squirming in his grave.

Shug Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:47:27am

They admit to it right before they deny it existed

jorline Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:47:57am

re: #2 bushleague

I wonder if the "youths" of Paris will have any response to this.....

...civil unrest and burning cars in the streets.

Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:48:33am

re: #2 bushleague

I wonder if the "youths" of Paris will have any response to this.....

Yes, they'll say that not enough was done to murder Jews.

scum.re: #14 VegasRick

Typical Fwance response, surrender before even being asked to. Give up your people instead of defending them. Disgusting.

Anti-Semitism actually had (and still has) deep roots in France. It was not by chance that the Dreyfus Affair took place there.

Ward Cleaver Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:49:09am

re: #13 smokefire

It's a high-level hand washing.

Sorry the French do not wash their hands.

Hand-wringing, maybe.

pat Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:49:12am

Maybe they are just trying to cozy up to their new masters?

MJ Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:50:56am

Meanwhile, across the channel, the British have noticed that the antisemitism they have actively promoted is becoming a problem:

UK pledges to combat anti-Semitism

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Not for one moment do I believe the British government is interested in combating Jew-hate.

Silhouette Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:51:28am

re: #6 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The money sentence:

Yes, they are saying out loud, "We killed our Jews and it was our own doing. No one made us."

ROPMA Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:52:20am

OT cooties in the senate

Last Mohican Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:52:21am

reparations had since been made “as much as was possible, for all the losses suffered”.

I have a question: what reparations did France make?

I'm not asking in a snarky sarcastic way, and I don't necessarily mean to imply that France hasn't done enough. I just actually don't know what France has done over the years to atone for its role in the holocaust.

Creeping Eruption Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:52:23am

re: #22 MJ

Meanwhile, across the channel, the British have noticed that the antisemitism they have actively promoted is becoming a problem:

UK pledges to combat anti-Semitism

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Not for one moment do I believe the British government is interested in combating Jew-hate.

ou don't think this guy, "Sadiq Khan, minister for Community Cohesion" is going to help? Have you no faith?/

VegasRick Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:52:49am

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]
You have got to be shitting me! I thought this was an Onion News article.
"Hitler had bad table manners"? WTF?

J.D. Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:52:51am

re: #21 pat

Maybe they are just trying to cozy up to their new masters?

Now...you'll hurt their feelings...

calcajun Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:53:04am

re: #1 Ward Cleaver

It's about time. Sadly, some of France's newer residents are wishing for a repeat.

Some of the older ones, too. Except they want to do it to the newer residents.

lawhawk Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:53:26am

67 years too late. And of the thousands deported, how many were murdered by the Nazis? Well, the US Holocaust Museum notes that 77,000 Jews taken from France were murdered. That blood is on the hands of the Petain government who willingly went along with this.

Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:53:35am

I am wondering if now, the French, and especially the city of Paris, will in the least, let people know that there is a holocaust memorial in Paris.

Up to now, information on it has been very sparse in guide books, and I have even spoke to policeman who were standing one block away from it, asking them for directions, and they either didn't know where is was, or was reluctant to point me to it.

Of course, I am well aware that a memorial does not make up for what happened, but it does present a place where people can go and reflect on the horror of what happened in Europe.

For some people, a memorial like this is a comfort, for others, a stark reminder that it should not ever happen again.

For those that don't know where it is, here is some information. It is behind Notre Dame, at the triangular tip of the Ille de Cite', UNDER the park that is at that location.

You must go into the small park, walk to the very end of the island and you will see a stairway going down into it.

FYI.

Last Mohican Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:53:44am

Wow, new thread already? Charles moves quickly in the mornings these days.

nyc redneck Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:54:21am

re: #23 Silhouette

Yes, they are saying out loud, "We killed our Jews and it was our own doing. No one made us."

so they are acknowledging a wrong doing ,
or just taking credit for it?
that's the french for you.
bitchy.

calcajun Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:54:35am

re: #25 Last Mohican

I have a question: what reparations did France make?

I'm not asking in a snarky sarcastic way, and I don't necessarily mean to imply that France hasn't done enough. I just actually don't know what France has done over the years to atone for its role in the holocaust.

Paid money to survivors and families of victims. They know who they shipped off. They still have the records of all the names of the people who were shipped through Drancy and then east into oblivion.

pre-Boomer Marine brat Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:54:55am

William Shirer, journalist and author

Pertinant to this thread: "The Collapse of the Third Republic"

To understand Vichy (and immediate post-war France) it's necessary to understand what France was before the war.

calcajun Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:55:41am

re: #30 lawhawk

67 years too late. And of the thousands deported, how many were murdered by the Nazis? Well, the US Holocaust Museum notes that 77,000 Jews taken from France were murdered. That blood is on the hands of the Petain government who willingly went along with this.

And Laval paid for it with his life at the end of the war. Petain--who was in his 90's at war's end, spent little time in prison.

sffilk Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:59:07am

A "little" too late to be worthwhile, but at least they finally admitted their complicity.

As others have said, I don't think it'll make a difference to those whose Jew-hatred is coming out in force right now. And that's a shame.

yma o hyd Wed, Feb 18, 2009 8:59:59am

re: #22 MJ

Meanwhile, across the channel, the British have noticed that the antisemitism they have actively promoted is becoming a problem:

UK pledges to combat anti-Semitism

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Not for one moment do I believe the British government is interested in combating Jew-hate.

Its only a sort of sub-species of racism - a bit higher in the order than hate of Christians, but definitely not as important as Islam-hate.

sffilk Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:00:20am

re: #22 MJ

Meanwhile, across the channel, the British have noticed that the antisemitism they have actively promoted is becoming a problem:

UK pledges to combat anti-Semitism

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

Not for one moment do I believe the British government is interested in combating Jew-hate.

It would go against type, wouldn't it?

SFGoth Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:00:20am

We probably could've cut a deal with Germany in 1942 - the Nazis move to Vichy France. There's a scene near the end of Band of Brothers where they're driving along and you see a couple of Frogs shoot some Nazis in the head. Brave Frogs they were. Would that they have enforced their own fucking treaty in 1935 when Hitler re-militarized the Rhine. I have no problem taking anyone's side against the French.

fish Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:02:19am

I'm sorry but "France Sucks and always has" isn't exactly breaking news to me. I pretty much knew that all along.

Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:02:26am

re: #40 SFGoth

I hope you're kidding. If you're not, shove off!

yma o hyd Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:03:33am

re: #35 pre-Boomer Marine brat

William Shirer, journalist and author

Pertinant to this thread: "The Collapse of the Third Republic"

To understand Vichy (and immediate post-war France) it's necessary to understand what France was before the war.

Thanks - and Arthur Koestler gives a very interesting account of his life as German internee in France, at the outbreak of war, in his 'Scum of the Earth'.

Ron Shaw Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:04:25am

The Vichy (Frence) soldiers were also the first to spill American blood in WWII land battle in the European / African theater. The Nazis had left the Vichy in North Africa with the critical task of holding the area to protect the access to the oil for the Germans. The Vichy French soldiers could not and crumbled against the American incursion into North Africa. Hitler was pissed, Rommel was sent to drive the Americans back and as a result the rest of France and the Vichy Govt. sacked and southern France was also taken by Germany. Rommel initially succeeded at this task, but...

"Here's looking at you, Ilsa!"

dhg4 Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:05:41am

There's probably a good reason that France has been kind of delinquent in this regard. A number of its leaders were implicated for collaborating with the Nazis (or the Vichy government.)

For example there was Maurice Papon.

Tall and self-assured, Mr. Papon looked the model French elite civil servant, and for 50 years he seemed to be one, overcoming the taint of collaboration after the war to be taken under the wing of the hero of the Resistance, Charles de Gaulle. Mr. Papon became a powerful police official and eventually a Gaullist government minister before his past finally caught up with him in his old age, which then abbreviated the punishment that survivors of his victims believed he deserved.

His record:

At first, Mr. Papon and his superiors rounded up foreign Jews, telling themselves that this way they would at least spare French Jews. But as 1942 wore on and the Germans grew more demanding, the French officials were drawn into the fatal machinery, still telling themselves it would be worse without them.
Writing to a subordinate in January 1944, Mr. Papon seemed aware that many of the people rounded up at the French concentration camp in Mérignac, outside Bordeaux, and then shipped off in trains to Drancy, north of Paris, would never return.

“We have to try,” Mr. Papon wrote, “to free or, if not, keep in Mérignac, Jews of interest: holders of the military Légion d’Honneur or Croix de Guerre, war invalids, wives of prisoners.”

But when the Germans said people like these had to go too, they went. The orders signed by Mr. Papon went into the files, where researchers like Mr. Slitinsky and Serge Klarsfeld, a lawyer who has documented the fates of almost all of the 74,721 Jews (out of 330,000) deported from France during the war, found the documents decades later. All but a few died in Nazi extermination camps.

The Germans who dealt with Mr. Papon found him “correct and readily cooperative,” as one field report put it in 1943. “He works well with the Kommandatura and he is fast and competent,” the report added.

And of course there was former French President Francois Mitterrand who, it turned out, was also a Vichy supporter.

Mr. Pean said that, after extensive research and seven interviews with the President, he also became convinced that Mr. Mitterrand was never an anti-Semite even though he was working in 1942 for a pro-Nazi Government that had already begun deporting Jews from France to German concentration camps.
...
The book nonetheless details how, upon arriving in Paris from the provinces at the age of 18 to study law and political science, Mr. Mitterrand was drawn into a rightist group known as National Volunteers. Photographs from the period also show him taking part in rightist demonstrations, including one sympathetic to Italy's Fascist dictator, Benito Mussolini.
"I never flirted with the extreme right," he said in his interview with Le Figaro. "I was always republican. I was a product of my upbringing: very typically French middle-class, Catholic and traditional, therefore conservative and patriotic. But there was never a shadow of anti-Semitism in my family."

Take that denial for what it's worth. Mitterrand allowed what he wanted to get out to be published. Since he controlled how much information his biographer got and since this was written at the end of his career (and life), I'd assume that he airbrushed his activities.

France couldn't very well deal honestly with Vichy for a long time.

albusteve Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:06:53am

and then the Vichy went on to resist the Allies in North Africa....bad guys plain and simple

samsgran1948 Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:09:42am

re: #19 Dark_Falcon

Anti-Semitism actually had (and still has) deep roots in France. It was not by chance that the Dreyfus Affair took place there.

Unfortunately, it's not just France. All of Europe still has deeply rooted anti-Semitism, and the liberal elites and the European MSM are playing to it, worsening it. To paraphrase Dark_Falcon: It was not by chance that the Holocaust took place in Europe.

I've said it before, and I'll keep repeating it: Any and all Jews need to leave Europe before it's too late again. We've seen too many instances of late where the Muslims are allowed to commit anti-Semitic acts with little or no official action to combat the situation. It's being ignored and swept under the carpet while everyone fusses and fumes about "Islamophobia". Europe is much more interested in placating the ignorant Muslims who leach on the system than protecting the educated Jews who produce and create good things way out of proportion to their numbers. Leave Europe to stew in its own juices (no pun intended -- wink and grin). Europe has made its choice. They want their socialist utopia, and don't care who or what has to be sacrificed to attain it.

Kaymad Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:11:14am

I've always wondered why they were let off the hook for what they did. They were quite eager for the deportations. Say what you want about Mussolini, he held out as long as possible.

SFGoth Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:12:31am

re: #42 Dark_Falcon

I hope you're kidding. If you're not, shove off!

Ahoy mate! Whatcha want from Duty Free? If France hadn't so self-absorbed with itself, it could've put a stop to Nazi Germany in 1935 (or '36, '37, '38, and especially '39 when Hitler nearly denuded his western defenses to hit Poland).

Afrocity Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:14:10am

OT. I have decided to run for office in Chicago perhaps as alderman on the Gop ticket. I wish other Chicago LGF would do the same.

Walter L. Newton Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:16:15am

re: #48 Kaymad

I've always wondered why they were let off the hook for what they did. They were quite eager for the deportations. Say what you want about Mussolini, he held out as long as possible.

I say he was AS responsible as Hitler, Petain and all the others, you jerk.

[deleted] Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:21:59am

[deleted] Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:22:09am

opinionated Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:23:50am

And in another 67 years they will admit helping Hezbollah and the 'Palestinians' [and almost certainly Iran] in their destroy Israel plans.

[deleted] Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:26:11am

onslow Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:28:04am

The Sorrow and the Pity

(French: Le Chagrin et la pitié) is a two-part documentary film by Marcel Ophüls that concerns the French Resistance and collaboration with the Vichy government and Nazi Germany during World War II. This 1969 film used interviews of a German officer, collaborators, and resistance fighters from Clermont-Ferrand. They comment on the nature and reasons for collaboration. The reasons include anti-Semitism, anglophobia, fear of Bolsheviks and Soviet invasion, the desire for power, and simple caution.

Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:29:28am

re: #50 Afrocity

OT. I have decided to run for office in Chicago perhaps as alderman on the Gop ticket. I wish other Chicago LGF would do the same.

I don't live in the city, but if you live in my parents district they will vote for you. And we will make contributions to your campaign. Flipping a City Council seat sounds like a fun challenge, count me in.

Dark_Falcon Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:31:09am

re: #49 SFGoth

Ahoy mate! Whatcha want from Duty Free? If France hadn't so self-absorbed with itself, it could've put a stop to Nazi Germany in 1935 (or '36, '37, '38, and especially '39 when Hitler nearly denuded his western defenses to hit Poland).

You have a point there. But still, your previous comment was over the top. You should not suggest that we should have dealt with Hitler just to stick to France. Such a thing is immoral even to jest about.

calcajun Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:31:11am

re: #46 albusteve

and then the Vichy went on to resist the Allies in North Africa....bad guys plain and simple

They resisted--for about an hour. The poor showing of the Vichy troops is what made Hitler decide to occupy all of France and disband the Vichy government.

tradewind Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:31:49am

Countdown to carbecues when word of this hits the ' burbs of Paris and Marseilles.....

opinionated Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:32:44am

re: #55 ploome hineni

Britain is doing that now

read the link above

And Germany and Russia and the Swiss and....hell ...eveyone.

SFGoth Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:35:53am

re: #58 Dark_Falcon

You have a point there. But still, your previous comment was over the top. You should not suggest that we should have dealt with Hitler just to stick to France. Such a thing is immoral even to jest about.

Why the Hell not? Why is it immoral (and I don't mean just to bring up but to actually "execute")? Exile the Nazi leadership to Vichy France -- which France brought upon itself -- would have been a wonderful idea, rather like sending Napolean to Elba; just make sure he doesn't escape. Would've ended WWII in Europe, stopped the Soviets from conquering Eastern Europe, and allowed us to focus our war fighting on Japan 2-3 years earlier (plus saved hundreds of thousands of U.S. soldiers from dying for France).

Pabloanno Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:37:43am

re: #52 ploome hineni

Wow.

[deleted] Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:47:27am

Walahi Wed, Feb 18, 2009 9:51:16am

re: #50 Afrocity

OT. I have decided to run for office in Chicago perhaps as alderman on the Gop ticket. I wish other Chicago LGF would do the same.

Congrats are in order on such a big decisions.

I think that if this current election/recent events has taught us anything, it is that Edmund Burke was right, the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men (and women!) to do nothing. I think a lot of us see common sense and believe it so common that we cannot believe what is happening in front of our eyes.

Afrocity, I have thought about running for office here in the UK. I hope you follow through on it and I wish that I do the same. Good Luck!

wiffersnapper Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:13:53am

To be honest, I had NO idea this ever happened. Learn something new everyday. Thank you for this news story!

Amer-I-Can Wed, Feb 18, 2009 10:58:27am

I would expect nothing more or less from these cheese eating surrender monkeys. "We did it, we are not proud that we did it, but don't ask for any additional assistance in this matter".

What a bunch of BS. This serves no purpose; history has already shined unkindly on the French for so many other reasons too.

Peter_Wiggin Wed, Feb 18, 2009 11:28:47am

So, how long before they apologize for doing nothing about the anti-semitism of today?

Bob Levin Wed, Feb 18, 2009 11:56:32am

Are they making a statement of fact, or are they announcing which side they're on? Because the 'youths' might look favorably on this. There could be an uptick in the polls over there as a result.

[deleted] Wed, Feb 18, 2009 12:07:26pm

S'latch Wed, Feb 18, 2009 1:06:02pm

France's deportation of Jews during World War II is good an example of a mass deportation that was the equivalent of mass murder.

[deleted] Wed, Feb 18, 2009 1:13:25pm

Bob Levin Wed, Feb 18, 2009 2:17:11pm

#72

"I think you are confused"

Do you want to clarify that? It seems that you are agreeing with comment #71, since that was his point--the purpose of the deportation was mass murder.

Hanoch Wed, Feb 18, 2009 2:49:46pm

And yet, with no sense of irony, they find themselves fully competent to repeatedly lecture Israel on how a moral nation should conduct itself.

S'latch Wed, Feb 18, 2009 3:12:55pm

re: #72 ploome hineni

uh

the purpose of deporting the JEws of France was to kill them

I think you are confused

I do not think I am confused. I think we are in agreement. France's deportation of Jews during World War II is good an example of a mass deportation that was the equivalent of mass murder.

Yashmak Wed, Feb 18, 2009 4:10:59pm

This does not bode well for France's weapons trade with the middle-east nations.

[deleted] Wed, Feb 18, 2009 4:30:45pm

[deleted] Wed, Feb 18, 2009 4:33:34pm

tsionguy Wed, Feb 18, 2009 5:01:24pm

Now if only France 2 would admit its role in the Al-Durah fake video.

EE Wed, Feb 18, 2009 6:27:09pm

What was the reason for the government of France doing this, if they were not coerced by the Nazis?

And isn't this the reason that so much of Europe is aiding the jihad against the Jews today by radical Islamists, when they are not being coerced to do this?

The divestitures, the boycotts, the denunciations of Israel's right to defend itself -- these all have an underlying reason. And it is related to the reason that France permitted and facilitated the deportations when it was not forced to do so.

Canoe Train Thu, Feb 19, 2009 7:14:11pm

Willing and eager collaborators, who then shifted the blame when it became convenient. That was what the French became. It was convenient to collaborate, then it became convenient to put al the blame on the Germans.

Spy Mode Auto

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France Finally Admits Role in Holocaust

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