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Robert Spencer Echoes the Islamists He Opposes

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Robert Spencer has now graduated to making empty legal threats, sending angry email to a blogger who removed Spencer’s site from his blogroll: Java Zen:Thinking Out Loud » Changes to the Blog Roll.

Everything I wrote in this post was purely factual, and easily proven—and Spencer himself has already admitted to these facts, on his site. There’s no “libel” involved. Spencer is now adopting the very same tactics of the Islamist groups he has claimed to oppose, bullying and threatening people who criticize him.

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208 comments

1 pat  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:51:26am

Goes no where.

2 acwgusa  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:51:37am

Ah Robert, I remember when you were sane.

3 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:51:47am

pamela is also outraged this morning for coming under criticism. Oh, the irony.

4 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:51:55am

He just wants to show how much he CAIRs.

5 coquimbojoe  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:52:46am

Sad. First Spencer, now maybe Wilders.

6 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:54:02am

Now Charles is "Guftafs"? He's losing his mind. And more empty smears about being libeled. Pathetic.

7 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:54:08am

The thing that concerns me is that this is exactly the kind of thing that the Fairness Doctrine crowd will point to as examples of why they need to 'do something' about the internet blogging sites.

8 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:56:42am

re: #2 acwgusa

Ah Robert, I remember when you were sane.

Yes, very sad. He's gone over to the dark side. And I really liked Robert.

9 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:56:46am

Gee, Spencer sends that email to Java Zen claiming he is thinking of legal action against “Guftafs” Charles Johnson and Kejda Gjermani.

Hey, my expose' of those emails Robert sent to me is on Guftafs. And I've posted those emails here on LGF. Why can't Robert include me in his list for possible legal action?

What does a guy have to do to get his 15 minutes of fame? Come on Robert, sue me.

10 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:57:00am

re: #6 Sharmuta

Now Charles is "Guftafs"? He's losing his mind. And more empty smears about being libeled. Pathetic.

I think he's just lacking a comma between “Guftafs” and "Charles Johnson."

11 opnion  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:57:50am

Sorry to miss this, it sounds interesting.
However, I am off to a business lunch & the stress is almost overwhelming.
I have to decide, do I want the soup & Sandwich & if I do what kind of sandwich & what kind of soup?
Wish me luck, I'm going in!

12 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:58:12am

re: #10 wrenchwench

I think he's just lacking a comma between “Guftafs” and "Charles Johnson."

Seems to me to be lacking more than that.

13 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:58:30am

re: #10 wrenchwench

Ah! Thanks.

14 acwgusa  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:00:19am

re: #8 Ward Cleaver

Yes, very sad. He's gone over to the dark side. And I really liked Robert.


"The man that you knew is gone, consumed by Darth Spencer."

15 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:00:23am

re: #9 Walter L. Newton

Gee, Spencer sends that email to Java Zen claiming he is thinking of legal action against “Guftafs” Charles Johnson and Kejda Gjermani.

Hey, my expose' of those emails Robert sent to me is on Guftafs. And I've posted those emails here on LGF. Why can't Robert include me in his list for possible legal action?

What does a guy have to do to get his 15 minutes of fame? Come on Robert, sue me.

I'd guess he checked your net worth first and figured there wasn't enough to go after?
/

16 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:00:30am

re: #12 Creeping Eruption

Seems to me to be lacking more than that.

Well, I agree, but I'm a better judge of grammar than I am of human souls.

17 yma o hyd  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:01:10am

Blimey - thats heavy-duty scare tactics by Mr Spencer.
Declaring something is libellous without showing why it is so, is neither here nor there. Just saying something is 'false' is not evidence.
And remarking further that one is 'investigating the possibility of legal action' is obviously used to scare the adressee into desisting - it is not evidence of an actual legal action.
Gah.

18 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:02:11am

re: #15 Nevergiveup

I'd guess he checked your net worth first and figured there wasn't enough to go after?
/

I suppose. What a waste. Wait, maybe my meteorite collection. That's worth about 10 thousand dollars. Robert, sue me for my meteorites. You can build your own Mecca.

19 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:02:23am

re: #9 Walter L. Newton

If it helps to make you feel any better, it's a hollow threat. To win a libel case the burden of proof is on robert. He has to prove that what was written about him is false. Since he's already admitted to the facts in the facebook article, he has no claim. I'm sure he knows this, too. He's trying to intimidate his critics, which might be why it's echoing the islamists.

20 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:03:08am

re: #17 yma o hyd

Blimey - thats heavy-duty scare tactics by Mr Spencer.
Declaring something is libellous without showing why it is so, is neither here nor there. Just saying something is 'false' is not evidence.
And remarking further that one is 'investigating the possibility of legal action' is obviously used to scare the adressee into desisting - it is not evidence of an actual legal action.
Gah.

Disclosure!

21 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:03:17am

re: #17 yma o hyd

Blimey - thats heavy-duty scare tactics by Mr Spencer.
Declaring something is libellous without showing why it is so, is neither here nor there. Just saying something is 'false' is not evidence.
And remarking further that one is 'investigating the possibility of legal action' is obviously used to scare the adressee into desisting - it is not evidence of an actual legal action.
Gah.

No libel if it is true.

22 IPLaw  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:04:11am

Racism - the new fascism.

23 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:04:33am

re: #19 Sharmuta

If it helps to make you feel any better, it's a hollow threat. To win a libel case the burden of proof is on robert. He has to prove that what was written about him is false. Since he's already admitted to the facts in the facebook article, he has no claim. I'm sure he knows this, too. He's trying to intimidate his critics, which might be why it's echoing the islamists.

NO, it doesn't make me feel any better. And he has roasted me in a couple of articles on his web site because of our communications.

Gee, Sharm, Charles gets all the breaks.

24 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:05:05am
25 Irish Rose  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:05:09am

re: #3 Sharmuta

pamela is also outraged this morning for coming under criticism. Oh, the irony.

Is she never NOT outraged?
It's always something.

26 debutaunt  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:05:15am

re: #18 Walter L. Newton

I suppose. What a waste. Wait, maybe my meteorite collection. That's worth about 10 thousand dollars. Robert, sue me for my meteorites. You can build your own Mecca.

Perhaps a nice meteor.

27 FrogMarch  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:05:49am
The first to go is Ann Coulter. While I’ve admired her chutzpah and irreverent tenacity for saying out loud what I hear many people whispering in private, she crossed the line with her inane defense of a white supremacist hate group and whining about the “racist” tag with which they’ve been labeled.

The second to go is Robert Spencer. I’ve appreciated the insights from several of his books and numerous blog posts on jihadwatch.org. But his failure to unequivically dissociate himself from a group of white nationalists advocating the expulsion of all Muslims from Turkey is a step across the line. There are other odd behaviors on display by Mr. Spencer which precipitated his removal from my blogroll here at JZ:TOL. It’s unfortunate that Mr. Spencer appears to be undermining his own previous good works.

well said.

28 J.S.  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:07:49am

re: #17 yma o hyd

Libel chill as they call it here in Canada...(there may be new developments with respect to Libel law in Canada -- the Supreme Court heard a case/arguments, etc., and will be delivering a decision sometime this summer...it has to do with a publication stating that when an article is published, they may believe that X is "true" at the time, and they publish (later it turns out that the claims were false, not to have been true at all, and the claims were defamatory)...so, question, "Is the publication liable for the publication that's now deemed libelous?" answer will come this June or so..)

29 yma o hyd  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:09:48am

re: #24 buzzsawmonkey

A demand letter does not need evidence; evidence only is important once one is in court.

A demand letter is meant to intimidate, so it often states things harshly. Of course, if you can't back up the accusations later, or if you don't follow through on your threats, you look like an idiot.

Yep - not being legally trained, thats what I was trying to say: he's out to scare bloggers but is overlooking the fact that he is painting himself into the idiot's corner by sending such 'scare' posts.

30 Racer X  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:09:54am

This sucks

31 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:10:57am

Antisemitism and white supremacy on the rise, people adopting the tactics of the enemy. What a crazy world this is becoming.

32 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:11:11am

re: #3 Sharmuta

pamela is also outraged this morning for coming under criticism. Oh, the irony.

Wow. I just took a look at that one. Unbelievable.

33 Irish Rose  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:11:20am

re: #2 acwgusa

Ah Robert, I remember when you were sane.

It was all an illusion.
He puts on a great public show to sell his books, but personality-wise he's a career bully... an infantile, self-aggrandizing, narcissistic little troll

His last dust-up with Charles to avoid having to take personal responsibility for being caught with his pants down over at Facebook was the straw that broke the camels' back, as far as I'm concerned.

His strange new "alliance" with Geller is just.. wierd.

34 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:11:42am

Hamas denies sending letter to Obama via senator

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

OOHH mystery? Maybe it's a love letter from Hanan Ashwari?

35 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:11:59am

re: #29 yma o hyd

Yep - not being legally trained, thats what I was trying to say: he's out to scare bloggers but is overlooking the fact that he is painting himself into the idiot's corner by sending such 'scare' posts.

Does threat of legal action really scare people?

36 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:13:27am

re: #35 Creeping Eruption

Does threat of legal action really scare people?

Ever been sued?

37 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:13:34am

It's interesting robert has this kind of time to defend his reputation so vigorously, yet somehow he couldn't think about his reputation when he was accepting invitations to genocidal facebook groups.

38 nyc redneck  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:14:11am

re: #31 FurryOldGuyJeans

Antisemitism and white supremacy on the rise, people adopting the tactics of the enemy. What a crazy world this is becoming.

isn't it a shame we don't learn from history.

39 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:14:36am

re: #35 Creeping Eruption

Does threat of legal action really scare people?

Yes

40 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:14:46am

re: #36 Nevergiveup

Ever been sued?

Nope, but threatened plenty.

41 Irish Rose  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:14:51am

re: #17 yma o hyd

Blimey - thats heavy-duty scare tactics by Mr Spencer.
Declaring something is libellous without showing why it is so, is neither here nor there. Just saying something is 'false' is not evidence.
And remarking further that one is 'investigating the possibility of legal action' is obviously used to scare the adressee into desisting - it is not evidence of an actual legal action.
Gah.

He's marcissistic enough to think that he can frighten people who have discovered what kind of man he is into silence, by using empty threats... it's all he's got.

Good luck with that, Robert.

42 calcajun  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:14:54am

Charles,

Speaking "academically" if some one wants to sue you for either libel/defamation, they will. In most cases, truth is an absolute defense against either charge. Specifically, California Civil Code section 45 defines it as;

....a false and unprivileged publication by writing, printing, picture, effigy, or other fixed representation to the eye, which exposes any person to hatred, contempt, ridicule, or obloquy, or which causes him to be shunned or avoided, or which has a tendency to injure him in his occupation.

Under California law, false attribution of statements to person may constitute libel if falsity exposes that person to injury comprehended by statute, and it matters not that only part of work at issue was alleged to be false. Masson v. New Yorker Magazine, Inc., U.S.Cal.1991, 111 S.Ct. 2419, 501 U.S. 496, 115 L.Ed.2d 447.

Speaking in academic terms, if someone publishes anything that is later proven to have been false (irrespective of whether or not it was either opinion or fact) that constitutes libel. Statements of fact are actionable as defamation, while opinions generally are not, but opinions may be actionable if they imply an assertion of objective fact. Terry v. Davis Community Church (2005) 131 Cal.App.4th 1534. At least in CA. I don't know about other jurisdictions.

I'll send my bill later.//// ;)

43 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:15:27am

I should restate my question: Why would such a patently baseless claim such as Spencers worry anyone?

44 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:15:47am

re: #38 nyc redneck

isn't it a shame we don't learn from history.

I think some people are learning from history, but not the mistakes. They are learning the evil and what worked to cause the most harm.

45 capitalist piglet  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:16:21am

He admitted he joined the group, and he's been all over the place, accusing Charles and "Cato the Elder" of "clearly" plotting a "setup" against him, with not a shred of evidence to support his claim, at least as far as I'm aware.

I'm obviously not an attorney, but it doesn't seem to me that would be a strong position from which to sue another party.

46 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:16:41am

re: #32 Charles

It's almost as if her associations have turned people off to her. It's unfortunate no tried to warn her about that possible side effect. Oh, wait.

47 Racer X  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:16:44am

Hard to watch the alliances crumble.

All is lost.

*sigh*

48 medaura18586  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:16:45am

Oh my,

Spencer used to delegate the legal bullying to his faithful army of trolls when all he was dealing with were little pests like me, but now that the stakes are higher and the players bigger, he has resorted to doing his own bidding.

Just in case anyone is on the verge of losing sleep over his ridiculous and vacuous threats, please be advised that actionable libel cases brought forth by a public figure must involve not only false information being divulged, but also proof that malicious intent is motivating the false pronouncements, the burden of which lays on the prospective plaintiff.

Such are the perks of celebrity status...

In our case, malicious intent and reckless disregard for the truth are characteristics Spencer holds absolute monopoly on.

49 yma o hyd  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:16:58am

re: #35 Creeping Eruption

Does threat of legal action really scare people?

I know a lot of ordinary people (not on LGF, natch!) who would indeed either back off when served with such a post, or at a minimum seriously re-think their actions.

50 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:17:38am

re: #43 Creeping Eruption

I should restate my question: Why would such a patently baseless claim such as Spencers worry anyone?

People are sued everyday with even less truth than what Spenser has. Juries can be exceedingly fickle, and millions of dollars can be a issue with each case.

51 capitalist piglet  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:17:41am

re: #24 buzzsawmonkey

A demand letter does not need evidence; evidence only is important once one is in court.

A demand letter is meant to intimidate, so it often states things harshly. Of course, if you can't back up the accusations later, or if you don't follow through on your threats, you look like an idiot.

My brother-in-law, an attorney, referred to this type of letter as a "nastygram".

52 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:17:41am

re: #46 Sharmuta

It's almost as if her associations have turned people off to her. It's unfortunate no tried to warn her about that possible side effect. Oh, wait.

Whoa. Deja Vu.

53 yma o hyd  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:17:46am

re: #37 Sharmuta

It's interesting robert has this kind of time to defend his reputation so vigorously, yet somehow he couldn't think about his reputation when he was accepting invitations to genocidal facebook groups.

Very good point indeed!

54 thefallingman  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:17:58am

Off Topic: It looks like theres some serious fighting kicking off in Sri Lanka between the government and the tamil tigers.

55 Irish Rose  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:18:20am

So Robert, are you going to threaten to sue everyone who removes you from their blogroll now?

56 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:18:24am

re: #45 capitalist piglet

I'm obviously not an attorney, but it doesn't seem to me that would be a strong position from which to sue another party.

And posting such inane threats on a website is childish. If you are going to sue someone, don't talk about it, just do it.

57 wrenchwench  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:18:34am

re: #46 Sharmuta

From that place:

she's at least a few chickpeas short of a falafel.

lol

58 lawhawk  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:18:47am

re: #51 capitalist piglet

That's indeed what they are, and while some people may be intimidated by them, others will simply snort and await to see if actual papers are filed in court before doing anything further.

59 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:18:50am
60 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:19:07am

re: #50 FurryOldGuyJeans

People are sued everyday with even less truth than what Spenser has. Juries can be exceedingly fickle, and millions of dollars can be a issue with each case.

It's not even that. What a pain in the ass our legal system is. It might be the best in the world but it still sucks.

61 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:19:18am

re: #45 capitalist piglet

He admitted he joined the group, and he's been all over the place, accusing Charles and "Cato the Elder" of "clearly" plotting a "setup" against him, with not a shred of evidence to support his claim, at least as far as I'm aware.

I'm obviously not an attorney, but it doesn't seem to me that would be a strong position from which to sue another party.

Suing someone is not about truth, its about intimidation and gobs of money.

62 Amer-I-Can  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:19:42am

It's too bad that Spencer has turned into a POS. I used to enjoy reading some of his rants before he went off the deep end.

63 yma o hyd  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:21:54am

re: #33 Irish Rose

It was all an illusion.
He puts on a great public show to sell his books, but personality-wise he's a career bully... an infantile, self-aggrandizing, narcissistic little troll

His last dust-up with Charles to avoid having to take personal responsibility for being caught with his pants down over at Facebook was the straw that broke the camels' back, as far as I'm concerned.

His strange new "alliance" with Geller is just.. wierd.

I used to visit his site before I became a Lizard - and without having any knowledge of what was and had been going on at that time, I became more and more creeped out by some of the long articles he and his friends put up, and by the comments from his 'regulars' I actually stopped reading there before I got in through the hatch here.
Its all very polished if one just skimmes the entries, but the mindset which has now come out into the open could already be glimpsed.

64 capitalist piglet  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:22:00am

re: #61 FurryOldGuyJeans

Suing someone is not about truth, its about intimidation and gobs of money.

It would seem to me he is risking a counter-suit. Charles has a reputation to protect, as well, and it would appear he has been publicly lied about.

65 calcajun  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:22:50am

re: #47 Racer X

Hard to watch the alliances crumble.

All is lost.

*sigh*

Out of chaos, comes order--Nietzsche.

Blow it out your ass, Howard--Albert Johnson; Blazing Saddles

66 esch  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:23:01am

re: #47 Racer X

Hard to watch the alliances crumble.

All is lost.

*sigh*

I disagree.

This is a period of 'change' alright. A time when people discard their pretensions of moderation and establish publicly where they REALLY stand, and always have. For much of the left, it is hardcore compulsory socialism. And we are discovering to our chagrin, that some of what the left has been saying about certain public figures on the right, appears correct. This is an opportunity for real fiscal conservatives, who are not also racists or religious fundamentalists, to stand up and be counted.

67 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:23:06am

re: #64 capitalist piglet

It would seem to me he is risking a counter-suit. Charles has a reputation to protect, as well, and it would appear he has been publicly lied about.

Indeed.

68 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:23:48am

re: #61 FurryOldGuyJeans

Suing someone is not about truth, its about intimidation and gobs of money.

Yeah and most people decry Attorneys as greedy cretins up until the point they need one. Then its "Mr. Attorney sir, I know I could have saved myself a lot of trouble and money coming to see you earlier, but I just thought I could handle this on my own, and didn't really want to pay a fee, . . but now I need to you to chop off my opponents legs at the knees and let him stumble around on his bloody stumps."

69 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:24:08am

re: #64 capitalist piglet

It would seem to me he is risking a counter-suit. Charles has a reputation to protect, as well, and it would appear he has been publicly lied about.

But what are the damages?

70 Irish Rose  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:24:25am

re: #61 FurryOldGuyJeans

Suing someone is not about truth, its about intimidation and gobs of money.

Clearly Spencer does not know the meaning of "counter-suit"

71 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:25:02am
72 calcajun  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:25:36am

re: #71 buzzsawmonkey

Not always.

But, about 90% of the time.

73 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:26:55am

re: #72 calcajun

But, about 90% of the time.

Its a wee bit more complex than that.

74 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:28:31am

There are so many mice in one Florida county courthouse that they've been seen falling from ceiling tiles.

[Link: apnews.myway.com...]

Appropriate for our legal system I'd say.

75 Racer X  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:29:06am

Anti-jihad movement = totally fractured.
Conservative politics = completely disemboweled.
Crap.

At least the Lakers are winning.

76 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:29:15am

re: #64 capitalist piglet

It would seem to me he is risking a counter-suit. Charles has a reputation to protect, as well, and it would appear he has been publicly lied about.

Mr. Spenser's threats could merely be a play to the loyal core supporters. This is not going to be pretty however it plays out.

77 quickjustice  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:29:33am

After the First World War, the former Ottoman Empire, allied to the Germans, was carved up by victorious Britain and France. The modern nation of Turkey emerged from that dismemberment. The Turkish Sultans were driven from power by the young Kamil Attaturk, a brilliant General who had personally engineered the defeat of British/Australian forces at Gallipoli in the Dardenelles Straits.

The Greeks decided to exploit disarray in Turkey by launching an invasion in the early 1920s to reconquer Istambul, the ancient Constantinople. They failed miserably. Attaturk rallied his "young Turks" to the defense of the new nation. He expelled the Greeks.

This was the last attempt at a reconquest of Istambul by the Greeks. It led to a massive Turkish military buildup. Attaturk secularized Turkey, adopted the Roman alphabet and western dress, and outlawed the fez, an Islamic symbol. Hagia Sophia, an ancient Greek Orthodox cathedral, was converted from a mosque to a museum as a token of the modern Turkey's western orientation.

Spencer and his allies are insane to sign on to another "reconquest" scheme.

78 acwgusa  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:29:43am

re: #74 Nevergiveup

There are so many mice in one Florida county courthouse that they've been seen falling from ceiling tiles.

[Link: apnews.myway.com...]

Appropriate for our legal system I'd say.

Guess they have had some squeakers in trials.

79 acwgusa  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:30:55am

re: #74 Nevergiveup

There are so many mice in one Florida county courthouse that they've been seen falling from ceiling tiles.

[Link: apnews.myway.com...]

Appropriate for our legal system I'd say.

Convicted by a whisker's length?

80 esch  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:31:06am

re: #76 FurryOldGuyJeans

Mr. Spenser's threats could merely be a play to the loyal core supporters. This is not going to be pretty however it plays out.

Never threaten suit unless you've already talked to a lawyer and they're ready to rumble.

81 calcajun  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:31:08am

re: #75 Racer X

Anti-jihad movement = totally fractured.
Conservative politics = completely disemboweled.
Crap.

At least the Lakers are winning.

For now...for now.

82 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:31:37am

re: #48 medaura18586

Oh my,

Spencer used to delegate the legal bullying to his faithful army of trolls when all he was dealing with were little pests like me, but now that the stakes are higher and the players bigger, he has resorted to doing his own bidding.

Just in case anyone is on the verge of losing sleep over his ridiculous and vacuous threats, please be advised that actionable libel cases brought forth by a public figure must involve not only false information being divulged, but also proof that malicious intent is motivating the false pronouncements, the burden of which lays on the prospective plaintiff.

Such are the perks of celebrity status...

In our case, malicious intent and reckless disregard for the truth are characteristics Spencer holds absolute monopoly on.

And after 5 months he's still threatening you with a libel suit.

It's interesting the amount of time robert will take to consider a lawsuit, but he can't seem to find any time to consider accepting invitations to join genocidal facebook groups.

83 FrogMarch  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:32:04am

ot: Slumdog's child actors still live in poverty.
(I loved this movie) My mom spent time in India working with the untouchables - and the poverty depicted in the film is the real thing.

84 calcajun  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:33:09am

re: #77 quickjustice

I think you have to look upon it as the same sort of delusional daydream as the Muslims have of retaking Spain. In some ways, it's a fair swap.///

85 medaura18586  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:33:11am

re: #82 Sharmuta

And after 5 months he's still threatening you with a libel suit.

It's interesting the amount of time robert will take to consider a lawsuit, but he can't seem to find any time to consider accepting invitations to join genocidal facebook groups.

Wait, he's bitching about ME again? Sorry, I really have had no time or interest to read comments on his site, except for when they've been explicitly pointed out to me by friends or blog readers. Anything fresh about me?

86 calcajun  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:33:49am

re: #73 Creeping Eruption

Its a wee bit more complex than that.

Hi--lawyer here...cynical lawyer here.

87 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:35:10am

re: #85 medaura18586

JavaZen used your article as well as guftas in his reasoning, so in his email, that the blogger linked to, he's claiming to still be considering you for a libel suit.

88 Irish Rose  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:35:59am

re: #63 yma o hyd

Its all very polished if one just skimmes the entries, but the mindset which has now come out into the open could already be glimpsed.

The gullible people who visit Jihad watch and take everything that Robert the Scholar writes at face value need to stop skimming over those polished entries, and really think about what is being implied in both the entry itself and the comments, which are most certainly moderated.

Robert hides behind his disclaimer, just like he hides behind his Facebook "conspiracy theory", to avoid having to take responsibility.... but he knows exactly what is being discussed in his comment section.

We were blind once, Robert.... but now we see.
Oh yes, we do.

89 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:36:03am
90 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:36:39am

re: #86 calcajun

Hi--lawyer here...cynical lawyer here.

So whats the difference between a dead skunk in the road and a dead lawyer in the road?
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
/
There are tire marks in front of the Skunk.

91 debutaunt  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:36:55am

re: #87 Sharmuta

JavaZen used your article as well as guftas in his reasoning, so in his email, that the blogger linked to, he's claiming to still be considering you for a libel suit.

Re-education camp sounds like fun.

92 Ruebacca  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:37:02am

A very large war is coming. World views are out of balance, old ways of thinking are reasserting themselves.

93 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:39:46am

re: #88 Irish Rose

The gullible people who visit Jihad watch and take everything that Robert the Scholar writes at face value need to stop skimming over those polished entries, and really think about what is being implied in both the entry itself and the comments, which are most certainly moderated.

Robert hides behind his disclaimer, just like he hides behind his Facebook "conspiracy theory", to avoid having to take responsibility.... but he knows exactly what is being discussed in his comment section.

We were blind once, Robert.... but now we see.
Oh yes, we do.

That's why I stopped reading his site. It was the users. At one time there were some real scholars at that site, commenting and adding to the discussion.

Now it's all bigotry, all the time.

You can only fall back on your disclaimer for so long, but when the whole tone and tenor of the site changes from your stated mission, someone has to take control.

Or assume that the host agrees with the bigotry voiced there.

Which is it Robert?

94 medaura18586  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:40:30am

re: #87 Sharmuta

JavaZen used your article as well as guftas in his reasoning, so in his email, that the blogger linked to, he's claiming to still be considering you for a libel suit.

Oh, I'm still reading the article... not there yet.

95 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:41:01am

This is the post at Java Zen, reproduced here because his server seems to be struggling to keep up at the moment: Java Zen:Thinking Out Loud » Changes to the Blog Roll

Changes to the Blog Roll

I’ve endeavored to include on my blog roll a diverse spectrum which represents (that is to say, isn’t comprehensive) the various points on the blogosphere compass I scan. I certainly don’t agree with all the points of view expressed by the links on my blog roll. However, experience has taught me that familiarity with multiple points of view on a particular subject is the basis for what qualifies as “well informed.”

There are, however, positions for which I have no tolerance and several of the links on my blog roll have crossed the line into this zone.

The first to go is Ann Coulter. While I’ve admired her chutzpah and irreverent tenacity for saying out loud what I hear many people whispering in private, she crossed the line with her inane defense of a white supremacist hate group and whining about the “racist” tag with which they’ve been labeled.

The second to go is Robert Spencer. I’ve appreciated the insights from several of his books and numerous blog posts on jihadwatch.org. But his failure to unequivically dissociate himself from a group of white nationalists advocating the expulsion of all Muslims from Turkey is a step across the line. There are other odd behaviors on display by Mr. Spencer which precipitated his removal from my blogroll here at JZ:TOL. It’s unfortunate that Mr. Spencer appears to be undermining his own previous good works.

I believe we are challenged with finding solutions to many brutal and barbaric threats both here and abroad. However, the successful solutions WILL NOT involve regressing to the point of replicating past atrocities and implementing equally barbaric “solutions” via a “means justify the ends” paradigm. They don’t.

Race supremacy and genocide are not the lessons a healthy, free and civilized nation finds in history and chooses to carry forward. They are as far to one side of the spectrum of solutions as “diplomatic” solutions are to the other. Finding, and acting on, a solution will require creativity and backbone. Sliding back into the mire of dark age thinking is not something I can support, regardless the point on the compass from which it originates.

[Edit History]

2009.02.20

Received the following email purporting to be from Robert Spencer:

Subject: Message from Java Zen:TOL Visitor
From: “Robert Spencer”
Date: Thu, February 19, 2009 2:33 pm
To: gpe@javazen.com

Robert Spencer wrote:
To whom it may concern: Please be aware that the material you have repeated here
from “Guftafs” Charles Johnson and Kejda Gjermani is false and
libelous. I have no ties to white nationalist or Turkish irredentist groups, and
am investigating the possibility of legal action against the parties named
above.

Robert Spencer

Website: [Link: www.jihadwatch.org...]
IP: 72.71.205.239

96 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:42:28am

Reload the page if you don't see the whole thing...

97 medaura18586  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:42:36am

Got it!

Robert Spencer wrote:

To whom it may concern: Please be aware that the material you have repeated here
from “Guftafs” Charles Johnson and Kejda Gjermani is false and
libelous. I have no ties to white nationalist or Turkish irredentist groups, and
am investigating the possibility of legal action against the parties named
above.

Robert Spencer

Me so scared!

/laughing out loud (people staring)

98 quickjustice  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:43:29am

re: #78 acwgusa

I've been in that courthouse. What's really funny is that it's a relatively modern building, constructed in the 1960s.

The N.Y. Times's new office building also has suffered similar infestations.

99 Ruebacca  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:43:44am

re: #77 quickjustice

After the First World War, the former Ottoman Empire, allied to the Germans, was carved up by victorious Britain and France. The modern nation of Turkey emerged from that dismemberment. The Turkish Sultans were driven from power by the young Kamil Attaturk, a brilliant General who had personally engineered the defeat of British/Australian forces at Gallipoli in the Dardenelles Straits.

The Greeks decided to exploit disarray in Turkey by launching an invasion in the early 1920s to reconquer Istambul, the ancient Constantinople. They failed miserably. Attaturk rallied his "young Turks" to the defense of the new nation. He expelled the Greeks.

This was the last attempt at a reconquest of Istambul by the Greeks. It led to a massive Turkish military buildup. Attaturk secularized Turkey, adopted the Roman alphabet and western dress, and outlawed the fez, an Islamic symbol. Hagia Sophia, an ancient Greek Orthodox cathedral, was converted from a mosque to a museum as a token of the modern Turkey's western orientation.

Spencer and his allies are insane to sign on to another "reconquest" scheme.

Arab armies melt in the sand. Blowing up a pizza shop is a great victory for Arabs. The Turk is a different animal entirely. Turks defending Turkey will fight like devils.

100 Irish Rose  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:44:18am
I have no ties to white nationalist or Turkish irredentist groups

Whats' that banner you have up on your website then, Mr. Spencer?
Hmmm?

101 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:45:17am

re: #94 medaura18586

Well- bullies usually are surprised to find out there are people in this world who will stand up to them. I'm sure you flummoxed him right proper.

102 calcajun  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:46:23am

re: #90 Creeping Eruption

Oh, I have heard them all after 20 years.

103 yma o hyd  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:46:27am

re: #88 Irish Rose

The gullible people who visit Jihad watch and take everything that Robert the Scholar writes at face value need to stop skimming over those polished entries, and really think about what is being implied in both the entry itself and the comments, which are most certainly moderated.

Robert hides behind his disclaimer, just like he hides behind his Facebook "conspiracy theory", to avoid having to take responsibility.... but he knows exactly what is being discussed in his comment section.

We were blind once, Robert.... but now we see.
Oh yes, we do.

Exactly.
And I'd add that the comments even two years ago, when i started reading there, were already not just like a clique applauding everything the 'master' wrote, but were slowly escalating into more and more weird manifestations of what can only be described as echo chamber. No dissent at all. No debate. Not even amongst themselves.

104 SummerSong  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:46:56am

re: #33 Irish Rose

His strange new "alliance" with Geller is just.. wierd.

Rumors abound about that. A quick click at Google brings interesting results.

105 capitalist piglet  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:48:58am

re: #69 Nevergiveup

But what are the damages?

That depends on information I do not have, but if I were Spencer, I would leave this alone. As far as I know, he is the one who has made the baseless claim in this case.

"In law, defamation (also called calumny, libel, slander, and vilification) is the communication of a statement that makes a false claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a negative image."

Unless he can prove that Charles plotted to create the Facebook issue, it would seem he is the one who made a claim (not based in fact) that is damaging to the reputation of another.

106 calcajun  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:49:06am

re: #89 buzzsawmonkey

There are people out there--I know--who view litigation as just another form of, and even and extension of contract negotiations. This is usally the case in most commercial litigation cases on which I have worked.

As for personal injury, either the injured party wants too much, the insurer wants to pay too little, or its a combination of the two.

107 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:49:32am

re: #102 calcajun

Oh, I have heard them all after 20 years.

20 years explains your posts. I'm in 7 and therefore only about 87% cynical. :)

108 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:51:11am
109 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:51:36am
110 Irish Rose  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:52:45am

Barnabus

Karma: -2
Registered since: Nov 18, 2006 at 2:42 pm
(Logged in)

No. of comments posted: 4
No. of links posted: 0

111 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:52:54am

re: #108 Barnabus

And why don't you stop telling the host what he can post on HIS BLOG.

And I know, you won't be back to respond, since you are a fucking little brainless troll.

Bye bye.

112 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:53:07am

re: #108 Barnabus

robert is telling lies. He has no intention of suing anyone because he'd have to prove the statements to be false- he can't. Therefore, he's using the threat of legal action as an intimidation tactic.... like islamists do.

113 Summer Seale  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:53:08am

re: #110 Irish Rose

Barnabus

Karma: -2
Registered since: Nov 18, 2006 at 2:42 pm
(Logged in)

No. of comments posted: 4
No. of links posted: 0

Make that -4 by the time of this comment. =)

114 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:54:20am

re: #108 Barnabus

Piss off.

115 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:54:30am

That didn't take long.

116 Irish Rose  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:54:53am

re: #114 Charles

Piss off.

I second.

117 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:55:11am

Now Barnabus is blocked and he won't be able to respond. I know he was gearing up for a hearty debate. I'm sad now.

/s

118 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:55:29am

re: #114 Charles

Piss off.

Third.

119 quickjustice  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:56:54am

re: #89 buzzsawmonkey

Defamation is about reputation. I've both defended and prosecuted defamation cases. A case I defended was definitely about intimidation of my client. A law firm he fired for cause sued him for defamation. They prosecuted the case pro se, and lost in the appellate court.

The question on damages is what your reputation is worth. If Spencer is losing income by being de-linked due to disparaging remarks, he may be able to come up with some sort of damages estimate. And don't misunderstand me: disparaging someone by itself isn't actionable. It's only actionable if it's false, or if it's designed to deliberately destroy a contractual relationship.

120 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:57:10am

Wow. I always miss all the fun times here. Sigh.

/The lizard barbecue is now OPEN, for those who like their troll well-done.

121 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:57:42am

re: #118 Walter L. Newton

I meet you in the strangest places, my friend.

122 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:00:13am

re: #121 Kenneth

I meet you in the strangest places, my friend.

WHAT? That's a creepy comment and I wish you would explain?

123 Irish Rose  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:00:37am

You can't sue someone else for libel, when you're responsible for destroying your own reputation via carelessness and stupidity.

124 quickjustice  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:01:20am

re: #84 calcajun

What's interesting about Istanbul is that the 1923(?) Treaty of Peace provided that the Greek Orthodox Church could keep all of its property in Istanbul as long as there are Orthodox Greeks living there. The Greek Orthodox minority in Istanbul is shrinking in size, and the church desperately is trying to get them to procreate to keep a presence there.

125 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:01:39am

re: #123 Irish Rose

You can't sue someone else for libel, when you're responsible for destroying your own reputation via carelessness and stupidity.

Of course not, but it's the threat of action that causes many people to cave. It's the basis behind a lot of litigation in this country nowadays - throw a huge price tag on a civil suit and pray the other guy flinches. It's a scam.

126 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:01:52am
127 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:01:56am

re: #119 quickjustice

robert hasn't denied the facts in Charles' article- rather, he confirmed it was true. Sounds to me as though that pretty much takes a lawsuit off the table for him.

128 calcajun  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:02:27am

re: #107 Creeping Eruption

20 years explains your posts. I'm in 7 and therefore only about 87% cynical. :)

You'll grow up soon enough. :)

129 calcajun  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:04:31am

re: #126 buzzsawmonkey

Remember, the larger clients do not ever look at the merits. They look at how much interest their money can earn before they have to pay it out.

130 quickjustice  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:05:45am

re: #127 Sharmuta

Charles used the right legal term. Spencer has "admitted" the allegations, meaning he's bound by them.

131 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:06:07am

re: #122 Walter L. Newton

Oh dear... I was only referring to the comments you left at Atlas aka Pam's blog following her latest rant. I commented too.

Nothing creepy or inappropriate was intended by my #121 & I am sincerely sorry if you are offended in any way.

132 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:06:34am

re: #121 Kenneth

I meet you in the strangest places, my friend.

I'm going to ask you one more time, your statement is creepy and I want to know what you mean by it?

133 Irish Rose  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:07:23am

re: #127 Sharmuta

robert hasn't denied the facts in Charles' article- rather, he confirmed it was true. Sounds to me as though that pretty much takes a lawsuit off the table for him.

It does, and he knows it.

134 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:07:44am

re: #132 Walter L. Newton

I hope that explanation will suffice? Really, I meant no offense to you.

135 horse  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:07:56am

The more he feels he will lose his revenge on the white whale, the greater the madness in his actions, and the more he alienates those who may share his original concern about radical white whales.

136 capitalist piglet  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:08:02am

re: #112 Sharmuta

robert is telling lies. He has no intention of suing anyone because he'd have to prove the statements to be false- he can't. Therefore, he's using the threat of legal action as an intimidation tactic.... like islamists do.

If you think about it, what option does he have besides to behave as though he's righteously indignant? He joined a nasty group. He publicly admitted that he joined a nasty group. And as far as we all know (because he can't or won't offer any evidence to the contrary), he falsely accused another party of tricking him into joining a nasty group, damaging that person's reputation.

This is the logical next step. Act like you were wronged, even if you were the one who joined the nasty group, all by yourself.

137 quickjustice  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:09:20am

re: #126 buzzsawmonkey

Congratulations to you! I will say that the considerations in defending a lawsuit aren't always financial, the desires of N.Y. Supreme Court judges notwithstanding. ;-) I have clients who will fight lawsuits to the bitter end on principle, so the plaintiffs' bar knows that they can't be rolled.

You're correct. That's sometimes unwise from a strictly financial standpoint. On the other hand, it isn't always about money!

138 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:09:35am

re: #131 Kenneth

Oh dear... I was only referring to the comments you left at Atlas aka Pam's blog following her latest rant. I commented too.

Nothing creepy or inappropriate was intended by my #121 & I am sincerely sorry if you are offended in any way.

No, I was not offended, I was bothered by your remark. How would you feel if someone suddenly left you a message like that, with NO explanation as to the meaning behind it.

I didn't know you had left a message over there. I was over there jumping on her case. You didn't mention anything about "seeing" you over there.

What the fuck do you think I am, a mind reader. Hell, I brag about a lot of things but I don't ever remember claiming that I can read minds.

So, you don't think that your comment was creepy?

139 Irish Rose  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:10:01am

re: #136 capitalist piglet

If you think about it, what option does he have besides to behave as though he's righteously indignant? He joined a nasty group. He publicly admitted that he joined a nasty group. And as far as we all know (because he can't or won't offer any evidence to the contrary), he falsely accused another party of tricking him into joining a nasty group, damaging that person's reputation.

This is the logical next step. Act like you were wronged, even if you were the one who joined the nasty group, all by yourself.

Exactly.

140 capitalist piglet  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:11:21am

re: #125 thedopefishlives

Of course not, but it's the threat of action that causes many people to cave. It's the basis behind a lot of litigation in this country nowadays - throw a huge price tag on a civil suit and pray the other guy flinches. It's a scam.

Meh. Charles could sue him right back.

141 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:11:35am

re: #138 Walter L. Newton

I can see how it could be taken that way. In my mind I was fresh back from reading your comments there, which I thought were rather good. I enjoy your comments here too, btw. So yes, I guess I assumed you were a mind-reader.

My apologies. Peace?

142 quickjustice  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:13:09am

re: #141 Kenneth

Why don't you guys retire to the lizard lounge to work this out?

143 Irish Rose  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:13:36am

Relax, Walter....

Kenneth

Karma: 9,271
Registered since: Jun 22, 2004 at 10:20 am
(Logged in)

No. of comments posted: 20,466
No. of links posted: 292

144 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:15:02am

re: #142 quickjustice

re: #143 Irish Rose

Thank you. I have a high regard for Walter. I'm sure everything will be fine.

145 Irish Rose  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:16:52am

Off to work, bbl.

146 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:17:58am

re: #144 Kenneth

re: #143 Irish Rose

Thank you. I have a high regard for Walter. I'm sure everything will be fine.

No, it's not, you will never see me again, and my death will be on your head, my good man. I'm sorry, but I can see no other way to resolve this...

or...

Fine, no problem.

:)

147 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:20:40am

re: #146 Walter L. Newton

Clearly, we must resolve this as gentlemen... with a duel!

148 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:26:32am

re: #147 Kenneth

Clearly, we must resolve this as gentlemen... with a duel!

Stop it, that show creeps me out :)

149 Summer Seale  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:29:21am

The problem I have with Spencer's stance on joining this nasty group is this:

Granted, it could have been a stupid error of clicking accept without reading anything about it on his part. I totally understand that can happen. A lot of people click accept on Facebook without really looking to closely, especially if they're rushed for time.

But the problem is...he didn't renounce them. He acted as if it were a conspiracy to defame him, but he never really renounced them and said he was terribly sorry, that it was a bad mistake, and that he disavows everything about them. He acted as if he were the victim and not a person who simply made a stupid mistake. And now he's going around acting out the victim even more as if he didn't do anything wrong in the first place.

It's really insane. He should have just honestly apologized and said it was his stupid error in clicking accept. He did absolutely everything to avoid admitting that. It says to me that he's lying outright. He doesn't disagree with the group, he has a banner on his site in support of a group with the same sort of goals, and he's clearly in league with the fascist parties in Europe.

So for Charles and others to say that he's got clearly Fascist associations and tendencies isn't libel - it's fact at this point. He does have fascist associations and he has not disavowed them. It's not enough to say that he associates with them simply on one issue and does not say anything on the subject of their other platforms. If somebody joins the KKK simply because they like white robes, and then says they don't associate or comment on anything else about the KKK's platform, they're either seriously fucking stupid or deluded.

Either way, it doesn't look good for him.

150 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:29:49am
151 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:29:59am

re: #148 Walter L. Newton

Seriously? I can only take a little at a time, but it can be quite funny.

152 medaura18586  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:34:22am

Please, Robert, by all means do keep mentioning me by full name in reference to my blog posts. Keep threatening me. (I'm flattered, by the way -- truly flattered -- that you at least consider me big-enough-game to personally harass now, rather than leaving the dirty work to your trolls.) Keep the readers coming to my blog! Buff up my profile in the blogosphere... Fuel my inspiration to tear you a second nether region with all the piles of research I'm sitting on.

It's all going to end up helping your cause in the end. Somehow. Right?

Here is a public pledge: By weekend's end, a new piece on Robert Spencer's connections will be up on my blog. If I don't deliver, feel free to call me a bluffer and a liar. You've got my email address; bring on the abuse should I eat my words.

In my # 48 post I summarized the legalities of defamation suits. Here, let me touch upon the game theoretics:

Spencer has no case. We know it. He knows it. Any lawyer he could hire would know it. If he were unhinged to the point of actually following through with his deranged fantasy of suing Charles, Guftafs (good luck tracking that one down to issue a subpoena, by the way), and me, he would lose as surely as death. In distilling his actions and pronouncements through an interpretation that attributes him any rationality whatsoever (which his erratic behavior is making increasingly hard to do), the only plausible outcome I can think of him hoping for would be for us to be intimidated by the prospects of legal fees involved in a lawsuit (regardless of its outcome, which would surely not be in Spencer's favor).

This is where the money any of you has paid to buy his pedantic, mediocre books goes toward... legal bullying.

Robert, sorry to disappoint, but your bluff won't work. I do have the financial means necessary to defend myself in court if need be (even if I didn't, I could leverage against the book-deal that would certainly ensue). I would barely need to resort to legal representation anyway: your case is so trivial, and I am sufficiently confident in my knowledge of defamation law and, most importantly, in my ability to publicly tear you to pieces, that I would likely do my own bidding in court.

You are a public disgrace and I will make sure anyone with eyes to see, ears to hear, and brains in their skulls, learns all there is to know about you.

/Cordially,

Kejda Gjermani

153 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:38:00am

re: #152 medaura18586

A thousand times upding.

He's gonna feel that one in the morning.

154 medaura18586  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:39:53am

re: #152 medaura18586

Robert, sorry to disappoint, but your bluff won't work. I do have the financial means necessary to defend myself in court if need be (even if I didn't, I could leverage against the book-deal that would certainly ensue). I would barely need to resort to legal representation anyway: your case is so trivial, and I am sufficiently confident in my knowledge of defamation law and, most importantly, in my ability to publicly tear you to pieces, that I would likely do my own bidding in court.

Forgot to add:

And I would enjoy it!

Sue me, Robert. I dare you.

155 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:49:14am
156 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:49:57am
157 leww37334  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:55:23am

Ever read any of Robert Spencer's books? I have, his predictions have been a lot more on the money than Al Gore's.

158 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:56:57am

"leww37334" doesn't like you Kejda.

159 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 10:57:39am
160 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:01:34am

The neoconfederacy speaks.

161 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:02:13am

re: #157 leww37334

No one is disputing robert's books. The issues is his associations and the pathetic attempt on his part to intimidate the people pointing them out.

162 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:02:16am
163 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:02:32am
164 scottishbuzzsaw  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:07:34am

My Goodness! It seems everyone with a desire to deflect is choosing poor Al Gore as recipient of all animus! I resent feeling sorry for him.

165 realwest  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:08:14am

Is anyone else having problems linking to the JavaZen site that Charles linked to?

166 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:09:05am

re: #137 quickjustice

Congratulations to you! I will say that the considerations in defending a lawsuit aren't always financial, the desires of N.Y. Supreme Court judges notwithstanding. ;-) I have clients who will fight lawsuits to the bitter end on principle, so the plaintiffs' bar knows that they can't be rolled.

You're correct. That's sometimes unwise from a strictly financial standpoint. On the other hand, it isn't always about money!

And thank God for that. Seriously. Last year I settled one for 180k (the day before they were up before the Judge for sanctions for for a second round of discovery violations) on a tiny case I had demanded 35k the prior year.

167 Land Shark  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:09:16am

To see someone I've admired as much as Robert Spencer acting this way is very disappointing. There's no libel here, he even admitted he joined the group! But then he comes back with that cockamamie "Lizaroid Conspiracy" bull and now threatens libel suits.

This is a major blow to the anti-jihadi's camp credibility. Spencer has always been one of the scholarly backbones of resistance to Islamization and now he's just acting plain stupid.

168 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:09:22am

re: #164 scottishbuzzsaw

Predictions more accurate than Al Gore!

Not really a ringing endorsement when you think about it.

169 scottishbuzzsaw  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:10:50am

re: #168 Sharmuta

Predictions more accurate than Al Gore!

Not really a ringing endorsement when you think about it.

Agreed.

170 realwest  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:12:01am

re: #169 scottishbuzzsaw
Hi there {scotti} Say, are you having problems linking to the JavaZen site that Charles linked to?

171 scottishbuzzsaw  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:13:23am

re: #170 realwest

Hi there {scotti} Say, are you having problems linking to the JavaZen site that Charles linked to?

Hi {real}! No problems for me...came right up.

172 realwest  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:14:34am

re: #171 scottishbuzzsaw
Thanks, just got it up myself - he was experiencing an LGFalanche! LOL!

173 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:16:17am

re: #170 realwest

Hi there {scotti} Say, are you having problems linking to the JavaZen site that Charles linked to?

No problems clicking through, but that site is seriously in need of an HTML makeover. The text doesn't wrap (at least on my machine running Firefox), so you have to scroll to the right and back again to read the super-long lines. I ended up copying the whole thing and pasting it into a document so I could read it without going nuts.

174 scottishbuzzsaw  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:16:22am

re: #172 realwest

Thanks, just got it up myself - he was experiencing an LGFalanche! LOL!

That'll do it! How've you been?

175 equable  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:18:27am

Wow - fun day at the asylum!

176 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:18:43am

re: #174 scottishbuzzsaw

That'll do it! How've you been?

"Lizardlanch" :)

177 MPH  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:20:42am

I see Pamela G accepted a blogad from a young earther clan called "Dancing With Genesis" --- and she calls her blog Atlas Shrugs. Does she realize how foolish she looks?

178 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:22:23am

re: #177 MPH

Sadly, no she doesn't.

179 scottishbuzzsaw  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:24:23am

re: #176 Thanos

"Lizardlanch" :)

I like it!

180 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:28:47am

re: #177 MPH

I see Pamela G accepted a blogad from a young earther clan called "Dancing With Genesis" --- and she calls her blog Atlas Shrugs. Does she realize how foolish she looks?

I would say she's being intellectually hypocritical, but I'm not sure critical thinking skills are her forte.

181 Wilderstad  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:29:56am

I have a message for R. Spencer.
Sir, seek psychological help.
You've got a lot of anger issues that are not being dealt with. That anger is causing you to behave like playground bully.
If you truly want your message to reach outside the venues you already have, you need to deal with your anger issues, and divorce yourself from racist and fascist individuals and groups that undermine ALL the work you've done. Your reputation is declining fast and soon ears will be completely shut to your message on the dangers of Islam.

182 monumentlizard  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:46:15am

It's these little schoolyard spats between bloggers that have kept the mainstream media from going completely under.

The role of an editor (even if only a self-editing mindset) is a baby I hope we can keep while throwing out the bathwater of the mainstream press.

OT - Charles is there a way we could have a display setting that only allowed comments with a positive rating to be displayed ? It would make my time reading the comments much more productive.

183 J.S.  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:52:58am

re: #162 buzzsawmonkey

wow. I think you've nailed it..(the sociopath is soo skillful in deceit, sooo charming, and it is that "special exemption, just for you," bs, but such manipulative liars...and, of course, the one who finally figures it out and tries to alert others of the dangers, saying, "so and so is doing a number on you" -- that's the person who gets accused of "lying", while the sociopath skips off with its reputation of "honesty" intact.)

184 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 11:56:11am

re: #182 monumentlizard

It's these little schoolyard spats between bloggers that have kept the mainstream media from going completely under.

The role of an editor (even if only a self-editing mindset) is a baby I hope we can keep while throwing out the bathwater of the mainstream press.

I'm not sure if I understand your comment, but I have to say I think these "spats" are important because integrity matters. It's integrity that the msm and robert spencer both lack. When people do start to realize that the msm is part of the problem, it's blogs with credibility and integrity that will fill the void. In standing up for integrity now, LGF will have that credibility in the future.

185 TheObjectivist  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 12:29:22pm

I want to comment about the website Atlas Shrugs.

As you might guess from my nick, I am an Objectivist, and Atlas Shrugs is the famous novel by the founder of Objectivism, Ayn Rand.

Objectivism is a philosophy of reason. When I first started reading Pam's website, I thought it pretty good, given my fundamental dislike of Islam, if a little over the top. I tended to ignore the emotional outbursts, and petty behavior, because I thought perhaps the website was Objectivist in its nature.

I am now convinced that Pam is a shrill harpy with a terribly wounded ego, to worry and rant in exclamation and capital letters. There is little about her that is rational.

I want to say to all Lizards to not associate Objectivism in any way, shape or form, with this petulant child named Pam. To Pam I would say - please change the name of your website to "whiny populist evangelical" to more accurately reflect the ideology apparent in your writings.

For those actually interested in Objectivism, I recommend [Link: www.capmag.com...] or [Link: www.aynrand.org...]

Thank you.

186 MPH  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 12:30:23pm

re: #184 Sharmuta

I'm not sure if I understand your comment, but I have to say I think these "spats" are important because integrity matters. It's integrity that the msm and robert spencer both lack. When people do start to realize that the msm is part of the problem, it's blogs with credibility and integrity that will fill the void. In standing up for integrity now, LGF will have that credibility in the future.

You nailed it...

And beyond integrity...there is a right way to fight religious extremism, and a very dangerous way to fight it. Charles is showing us the right way.

187 MPH  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 12:36:03pm

re: #185 TheObjectivist

I think CapMag.com is where I first discovered Thomas Sowell's works, roughly ten years ago.

[Link: www.capmag.com...]

188 Land Shark  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 12:46:15pm

re: #184 Sharmuta

Charles has been consistent in his stance. Yet we've seen him catch flak from people who should know better.

What's interesting to me is that on a couple of occasions, when Charles was the first to point out possible racism, as in the VB party from Belgium or in Spencer's associations, I thought at first that Charles might have "jumped the shark". Yet subsequent events have proven him correct and there is a reason for his concerns. In both cases I wanted him to be wrong, yet in both cases his concerns are justified. As far as I'm concerned, on this issue Charles' credibility and integrity are solid.

Of course, I don't expect most lefties to even notice, after all, only conservatives are racists in their eyes.

189 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 12:49:22pm

re: #185 TheObjectivist

Did you notice the graphic in the banner? That's Pam photoshopped & tinted gold as Atlas holding up the globe like a cheerleader. Yeah, there's a ego problem.

190 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 12:51:32pm

re: #186 MPH

You nailed it...

And beyond integrity...there is a right way to fight religious extremism, and a very dangerous way to fight it. Charles is showing us the right way.

Thanks. It's just odd that one of the reasons most LGFers hate the msm is the lack of principles, but then when Charles takes a principled stand it gets demeaned and called a "little schoolyard spat". So unless one wants the blogosphere to be just as unprincipled as the msm, it's a rather transparent attempt at obfuscating robert's actions.

191 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 12:59:09pm

re: #188 Land Shark

Well- I never doubted Charles' integrity. It's one of the reasons why I'm at LGF.

192 Salamantis  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 1:27:22pm

re: #182 monumentlizard

OT - Charles is there a way we could have a display setting that only allowed comments with a positive rating to be displayed ? It would make my time reading the comments much more productive.

Since this comment of yours sports a solidly negative rating, if your suggestion were to be taken, it would no longer be displayed. That's an interesting contradictional conundrum - advice the acceptance of which renders a judgment that the advice itself is unacceptable for public reading.

193 Hollowpoint  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 2:02:56pm
“Actually, I am fighting jihad, and have no interest in or intention to investigate these groups. Insofar as they are fighting jihad, I applaud them. Insofar as they are doing anything else, my endorsement is not implied.”

This quote from Spencer's e-mail seems to sum up where he's gone wrong. Too quick to hitch his wagon to any group that shares an anti-Jihad / anti-Muslim agenda with little regard to their overall ideology. Serb groups with war-criminal ties? No problem. Neo-facist European political parties? Just peachy. That Turk facebook group? I'll take his word that it was a mistake, but that he didn't bother checking into who they were (besides anti-Jihad) seems to fit a pattern.

I used to read JW; Spencer's knowledge of Islam is impressive. Pity he's chosen the path he has. Last I checked his site, he was mocking some Canadian Muslim group that was trying to promote a moderate, non-violent version of Islam without a word of approval. Fundamentalist Islam in itself may not be moderate, but trying to pick apart those trying to advance a moderate version when (for better or worse) Islam isn't just going to go away? If you're not part of a solution, you're part of the problem, Mr. Spencer.

194 Salamantis  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 2:33:20pm

re: #192 Salamantis

Since this comment of yours sports a solidly negative rating, if your suggestion were to be taken, it would no longer be displayed. That's an interesting contradictional conundrum - advice the acceptance of which renders a judgment that the advice itself is unacceptable for public reading.

On second contemplation, his suggestion is even more egregious. When comments are first posted, they have a 0 rating. Anyone who didn't like someone else's comment could therefore prevent anyone else from reading it, much less updinging it, by giving it a downding, if they're quick enough on the scene.

195 theheat  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 2:39:16pm
I have no ties to white nationalist or Turkish irredentist groups, and am investigating the possibility of legal action against the parties named
above.

Overheard: "KKKut it out! KKKwit picking on me!"

Spencer's defense is desperate and disingenuous.

196 Land Shark  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:34:48pm

re: #191 Sharmuta

I never doubted his integrity either. However, I did think that maybe he was being over paranoid and seeing racism where there was none, but like I said, he was right and I was wrong.

197 RedFace  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 4:36:12pm

Dear Charles , dear lizzards,

I Am dutch and live in Antwerp, Belgium. This is a center of the Vlaams Belang of De Winter. If these people were really sincere in a anti-islamic-imperialism struggle, to my opinion they had to step down personally, with their (white power) past, they are really bad apples.
But it is not easy to see nowadays that they are simplistic racists.
You have to dig deep in LGF to find some proof. And some examples Charles showed, weren't proof, like the flag with the lion, it is just the Flemmish flag, Racists use it, but it in itself is not racist.
I can understand that not everybody has the time or feels the need to investigate this;
Geert Wilders will never align himself with the Vlaams Belang , take that from me.
In Holland there is a great hate towards the fascists from the rest of Europe, BNP, FN, VB, etc. He is just a friend of Israel and a victim of Islam.
He said about the Vlaams Belang : "

some people say they have changed, and some people say they have not, I will look in to this

.
And not responding to your email, Charles, isn't exactly choosing for the VB.
To my opinion the VB is a big burden in our struggle btw, But you must know that the alternatives over here, Like LDD and NVA., say "zionism=racism", and they are considered non-fascists by the media
Its all bad.

I see Robert Spencer as someone who just wants to make his speeches,
He was a bit used by the VB, but it is easy to be fooled by them.
I find his site pretty ballanced.

And Pamela Geller seems like prettty temperamented woman.
She has some pretty alarmist posts, but she produces a lot of them and some very informative ones.

These are complicated issues and it is a shame you (Charles) cannot discuss these things out with Robert and Pamela.

A little bit of understanding and persuasion would be nice I think.

The people (Lizzards) who react over here agree way to much with each other and you. No real discussion.
I hope that you do not edit out to much dissenting opinions, Its your blog but our world.

Btw, the loading time of LGF is now much better than before, 10 times as fast.

About me:
I have Vegan lifestyle , take the necessary supplements, have a daughter.
I used to be pro-Palestinian, but saw their "leaders/bullies", Lived in Israel, with its soft nice people (yes, you read this correctly), saw it terrorized, by suicidebombers. And now I am a Israel-supporter.

Erika

198 SanFranciscoZionist  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 4:48:04pm

re: #31 FurryOldGuyJeans

Antisemitism and white supremacy on the rise, people adopting the tactics of the enemy. What a crazy world this is becoming.

Those people are the enemy. No one becomes a racist because they're concerned about Islamic fundamentalist terror, but some people will use such concerns as a pretty cover for their own racism.

199 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:37:04pm

re: #197 RedFace

Your first comment is a heaping load of apologia for robert and pamela. Lovely. I pity you if pamela is your idea of reasonableness. Seriously.

200 Omega Man  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:48:16pm

re: #193 Hollowpoint

"Too quick to hitch his wagon to any group that shares an anti-Jihad / anti-Muslim agenda with little regard to their overall ideology."

Was FDR too quick to hitch his wagon to Stalin because they shared an anti-Hitler agenda? I'm just asking.

201 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:57:52pm

re: #200 Omega Man

"Too quick to hitch his wagon to any group that shares an anti-Jihad / anti-Muslim agenda with little regard to their overall ideology."

Was FDR too quick to hitch his wagon to Stalin because they shared an anti-Hitler agenda? I'm just asking.

Now there's an argument we've never heard before. Except the last 2,000 times fascist sympathizers posted it at LGF.

When FDR allied with Stalin, the US was in a state of total war. Are you so far gone, you can't see that there's a teensy little difference between then and now?

202 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:02:50pm
203 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:05:05pm
204 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:09:34pm

re: #200 Omega Man

Piss off.

205 gman  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 7:22:02pm

Charles,

Spencer refers to his attorney as a William J. Becker in a
October 26, 2007 article on Jihad Watch. I won't link to it, but here is the text:

I am just about on my way out of the hotel room (no Pinot Noir in mine, Greg) to Dartmouth College for my final Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week talk, but I thought I'd relay some good news I just heard from the crack legal team over at The Becker Law Firm.

My lawyer, William J. Becker, Jr., just got off the telephone with Fred Gonzales, general counsel for SonicWall, one of the main netfilters responsible for the blocking of Jihad Watch on computers all over. Gonzales was responding to Becker's letter to SonicWall explaining about some salient Constitutional rights and asking that the block be removed. Gonzales informed Becker that Jihad Watch has been recharacterized by Sonic Wall as "political/advocacy" rather than "violence/hate/racism." Gonzales and Becker had a pleasant discussion, during which Gonzales explained that it is always useful to know specifically where a site is being blocked ( e.g., a library computer). So if this happens again, please let me know at director@jihadwatch.org, and I will inform Becker so he can take appropriate action.

206 notutopia  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 7:54:24pm

Robert Spencer just keeps digging himself deeper and deeper into the hole of no return to incredibility. His "anti-jihad" and hatred of Islam has obsessively lured him into associations with the worst of allies. He's done this to himself. No one puts words in his mouth. No one has forced him to associate himself with anti-semitics and nazi fascists. His failure to unequivocally dissociate himself from a group of white nationalists advocating the expulsion of all Muslims from Turkey is ludicrous.
Then, came this latest issue with his accusations of being "set up" to join a nazi connected Facebook account, by invitation of Charles and Cato the Elder, is just repulsive. This is shear paranoia. There is No substance to validate this accusation, other than fear, and then he reacts to his own fear, by threatening a lawsuit against them?
He has sabotaged his own credibility and lost his integrity. Now, he is panicking, rather than redress his digressions. I pity him. He continues to refuse to address: reality, himself, and his lurid associations. I said this before, He should be GRATEFUL to Charles and Cato, if he truly had made this Facebook joining in haste and error.

Spencer, if you truly want to be known and remembered as a man of integrity, then this is how you do it. Rebuke your hate loving, genocide advocating associates! Save your money on the lawyers, and stop the threats and intimidation. You have to own up and take personal responsibility for your own bad decisions, actions, behaviors and associations. Mr. Spencer, your expert voice on Islam and against "jihad", will be all for naught, and will fall on deafened ears. NO one with wisdom or knowledge of the facts of your associations, will hear you, believe you, or support you or your work.

207 guftafs  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 7:22:53am

re: #152 medaura18586

...
Spencer has no case. We know it. He knows it. Any lawyer he could hire would know it. If he were unhinged to the point of actually following through with his deranged fantasy of suing Charles, Guftafs (good luck tracking that one down to issue a subpoena, by the way), and me, he would lose as surely as death.

My email is now posted at my blog.

208 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 12:48:15am

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