How Not to Memorialize Aqsa Parvez

Blogosphere • Views: 9,397

The story of one of the most disgusting publicity stunts I think I’ve ever heard of: Chris Selley: How not to memorialize Aqsa Parvez.

As the Toronto Sun’s Joe Warmington reported last week, the online campaign to properly memorialize Aqsa has been led by one Pamela Geller, proprietor of the blog Atlas Shrugs, with support from other prominent right-wing bloggers on both sides of the border. It hasn’t been going so well. Geller raised more than $4,000 US for a headstone—it was to read, “Loved, Remembered, Free”—but apparently you can’t just plunk down whatever you want atop somebody else’s daughter’s grave. A correspondent reasonably suggested paying for a tree, bench and memorial plaque to be installed in the arboretum at the University of Guelph, but again, no dice. The manager of the arboretum replied that as it would “draw much public attention,” it would be “inconsistent with [the area’s] current use” as a sort of oasis.

Warmington, Geller et al profess bafflement at all this, the former suggesting last week that “the politically correct police seem to be winning out.” I have another theory. I think the cemetery and arboretum managers typed Geller’s name into Google, backed slowly away from their computers and decided they weren’t touching this thing with a ten-foot pole. A wise choice, I’d say; in my non-professional opinion, she’s at least a few chickpeas short of a falafel.

She seems to believe, just for example, that the presidency of Barack Obama—whom she refers to, variously, as “Obambi,” “B. Hussein” and “the Jihadists’ President”—is the result of a calculated infiltration of the U.S. government by radical Muslims. In December, when Obama advisors indicated he was considering delivering a foreign policy speech in an Islamic capital, she declared “America will be unrecognizable after Hussein’s first and last term (if we live through it).” She does not think highly enough of Muslims to expunge words such as “raghead” from her comment threads. She reacted to a particularly gruesome report of an honour killing last year in Pakistan, in which three teenage girls were apparently buried alive, as follows (her italics): “The bodies of the five women … were desecrated by the wild animals. This is Islam. … I have utter contempt for any human being who will not call this death cult what it really is. Pure evil. The horror.”

But the craziness doesn’t stop there. Geller also claimed that Barack Obama was the love child of Malcolm X. Yep, really. Her loony post made it into the Comedy Central Indecision 2008 blog, but she was not joking.

Jump to bottom

224 comments
1 Haole  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:14:04pm

That'll leave a mark

2 Wishing  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:14:27pm

That Malcolm X story has been around for some time. There is certainly a resemblance.

3 Racer X  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:15:06pm

Don't forget her Nirth Certifikate!

4 rightwinger3  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:15:16pm
she’s at least a few chickpeas short of a falafel.

Great stuff!

5 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:15:39pm

I hate when zealots try to make hay out of someone's death. The point of a memorial stone is to commemorate the departed, not to serve as a promotional tool for a cause.

6 Wishing  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:16:01pm

re: #4 rightwinger3

Great stuff!

Agree, that was a great line. lol

7 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:16:33pm

re: #2 Wishing

That Malcolm X story has been around for some time. There is certainly a resemblance.

You. Have. Got. To. Be. Kidding.

8 teleskiguy  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:16:39pm

We need less people like this on our side making waves, and more people like Charles hollerin' loud 'n clear! It's people like Geller who delegitimize what is an absolutely legitimate (and RIGHT, pun intended)point of view. Thank you Charles, for exposing these effing nutballs on our side.

9 Racer X  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:16:50pm

re: #5 Dark_Falcon

I hate when zealots try to make hay out of someone's death. The point of a memorial stone is to commemorate the departed, not to serve as a promotional tool for a cause.

Ed Zachary!

The funeral service, the headstone, all that is for the family left behind.

10 Bloodnok  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:16:58pm

Don't worry, Robert Spencer will probably threaten to sue the author for her. /

11 neomexicon  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:18:02pm

the squirrels are looking for this one...

12 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:18:53pm

re: #2 Wishing

That Malcolm X story has been around for some time. There is certainly a resemblance.

Both tall and skinny? So what?

13 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:18:59pm

Oh, BTW, Charles pointed this out on an earlier thread: Check out the comments. Our former friend, Robert Spencer, stops by to vomit out some his own deranged bile.

14 Colonel Panik  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:19:32pm

re: #2 Wishing

That Malcolm X story has been around for some time. There is certainly a resemblance.

I think I'm going to start referring to Obama as "Malcolm the 11th".

15 Dark_Falcon  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:19:44pm

re: #9 Racer X

Ed Zachary!

The funeral service, the headstone, all that is for the family left behind.

Who is Ed Zachary?

16 Haole  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:20:00pm

Quick, Get your corel draw paint program and ad another foto to your never ending crappy photo of "the green bus"

17 Ringo the Gringo  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:20:22pm
she’s at least a few chickpeas short of a falafel.

That's putting it nicely.

18 Ward Cleaver  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:20:48pm

re: #14 Colonel Panik

I think I'm going to start referring to Obama as "Malcolm the 11th".

Malcolm XI?

/

19 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:20:49pm

re: #12 Ward Cleaver

Both tall and skinny? So what?

Not to mention several hundred supermodels in that same category.
/... ditto ... so what?!

20 rightwinger3  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:20:53pm

re: #8 teleskiguy

We need less people like this on our side making waves, and more people like Charles hollerin' loud 'n clear! It's people like Geller who delegitimize what is an absolutely legitimate (and RIGHT, pun intended)point of view. Thank you Charles, for exposing these effing nutballs on our side.

Fixed. These nutballs ain't on our side. They're clueless dipshits. We're not.

21 Wishing  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:21:12pm

re: #12 Ward Cleaver

Both tall and skinny? So what?

LOL well yes, that too. But he sure looks more like X than the man who is his father.

22 winston06  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:21:17pm

thats nuts

23 VioletTiger  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:21:25pm

I'm your father Luke.....

24 Dave the.....  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:21:31pm

I'm pretty right wing, but I hate right wing wackos as much as I do left wing wackos.

If nothing else, people who do these things make it easier to discredit legitimate critics.

25 teleskiguy  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:22:41pm

re: #20 rightwinger3

True that, rightwinger3. Thanks for the fix!

26 eon  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:23:02pm

With people like Geller, etc., on "my side" (and I use the term extremely loosely), I think I'm beginning to get a fair idea of what a traditional liberal (like Joe Lieberman) feels like when having to talk to the likes of, say, the guy from DailyKos.

It's like trying to explain Einstein's Theory of Relativity (that, among other things, pretty much limits space travel to speeds below 300,000 km/sec) to a "UFO contactee" type. (Good luck with that one. I've tried.)

cheers

eon

27 Colonel Panik  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:23:18pm

re: #21 Wishing

LOL well yes, that too. But he sure looks more like X than the man who is his father.

The ears and the jaw. There is an odd resemblance, but I don't know if I'm ready to drink that kool-aid yet.

28 Racer X  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:23:29pm

Pamela responds:

I only wish to add that, the next time Mr. Selley and your newspaper decide to call me out in public, I request that you spell out my name, the name of my blog, and give me a link.


There is no bad press eh?

29 Racer X  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:24:29pm

re: #15 Dark_Falcon

Who is Ed Zachary?

Exactly!

(spoken in the voice of Kim Jong Il)

30 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:24:50pm
31 Soona'  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:25:02pm

re: #14 Colonel Panik

I think I'm going to start referring to Obama as "Malcolm the 11th".

M11. Or 0M11.

32 dentate  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:26:23pm

re: #21 Wishing

LOL well yes, that too. But he sure looks more like X than the man who is his father.


If you look at his family photos, BHO is the spitting image of his mother, with the father's hair and coloring.

33 JammieWearingFool  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:26:24pm

If Obama was the son of Malcolm the Tenth then why doesn't he have red hair?

34 teleskiguy  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:26:33pm

re: #29 Racer X

I'm so rhoneree, so rhonerey, so rhonerey!

35 Taqyia2Me  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:27:27pm

Re: President 'messiah' Obama, it ain't got nothin' to do with how he looks, it's ALL about what he says and does.
His aforementioned "Civilian Defense Authority", if it comes to pass, will be a telling milepost.

36 Kronocide  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:28:02pm

re: #2 Wishing

Of course there's a resemblance General. That's because they're responsible for 9/11, small pox, and American Idol!

37 Soona'  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:28:48pm

re: #35 Taqyia2Me

Re: President 'messiah' Obama, it ain't got nothin' to do with how he looks, it's ALL about what he says and does.
His aforementioned "Civilian Defense Authority", if it comes to pass, will be a telling milepost.

Has he said anything about that lately or has anyone written anything?

38 Thor-Zone  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:28:51pm

I don't know about you guys, but BHO's first month sure has been expensive.

39 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:29:16pm

Monroe prisoner amputates own penis

[Link: www.heraldnet.com...]

The prisoner, 49, already had amputated much of his genitals several years ago, prison spokeswoman Cathy Kopoian said.

Prisoners are permitted basic necessities, including razors, under state law, she said. Prison officials didn't consider the man at risk to harm himself.

On Thursday the man apparently used a razor blade to cut off what remained.

Good call?

40 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:29:17pm
she’s at least a few chickpeas short of a falafel.


Heh.

41 Karagush  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:29:24pm

re: #38 Thor-Zone

I don't know about you guys, but BHO's first month sure has been expensive.

for us.

42 JammieWearingFool  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:29:43pm

I'm not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV, but I believe the malady afflicting this one is called wet brain.

43 rightwinger3  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:30:15pm

re: #2 Wishing

That Malcolm X story has been around for some time. There is certainly a resemblance.

I think Obama looks more like this guy. It ain't Malcolm X.

44 Thor-Zone  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:30:16pm

re: #41 Karagush

for us.

Thanks for fixing that......

45 eon  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:30:26pm

re: #30 taxfreekiller

View this with care not all nice, its in Spanish, people are killed.

It is just on the other side of the unprotected open border with Mexico.

As you view this , keep in mind the troopers words to the Iraq police recruits.

It is your country, it is your duty to protect it, are you up to the task.


Looks a lot like Colombia did in the Eighties. Except it's a lot closer to our doorstep.

How long before they just up and admit that Mexico is officially having a civil war?

cheers

eon

46 Killian Bundy  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:30:28pm

2008 Weblog Award winner.

/go figure

47 Taqyia2Me  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:30:56pm

re: #37 Soona'

Has he said anything about that lately or has anyone written anything?

Not that I have seen or heard, but laying that out once was plenty to get my attention for the rest of his elected career.

48 Soona'  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:31:19pm

re: #39 Nevergiveup

Monroe prisoner amputates own penis

[Link: www.heraldnet.com...]

The prisoner, 49, already had amputated much of his genitals several years ago, prison spokeswoman Cathy Kopoian said.

Prisoners are permitted basic necessities, including razors, under state law, she said. Prison officials didn't consider the man at risk to harm himself.

On Thursday the man apparently used a razor blade to cut off what remained.

Good call?

Spontaneous sex-change surgery. What a concept.

49 n in wi  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:31:39pm

Anyone think this is a good idea?
If there is a desire for the reimplementation of the Fairness doctrine, by that or any other name, I say talk show host should give them a sample of what they claim they want.
I suggest that all the major players in talk radio pick a day to invite any left wing pundit or politician to be on their show.
Give them the ear of the audience that has been built up.
Let them have a uninterrupted hour,give or take ,to sell their policy economic, fairness doctrine or any other.
Then, take calls from listeners who are in disagreement,to balance the show.
I'd like to see a large scale effort to organize this for the same day on all the big talk shows.
If equal time is offered, and rejected by the left ,it is telling.
If it is accepted,their arguments can be discredited, in public,by the public.

50 calcajun  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:31:48pm

re: #2 Wishing

That Malcolm X story has been around for some time. There is certainly a resemblance.

Between who? Pam or BHO? The President does not have red hair.///

51 IslandLibertarian  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:31:59pm

re: #2 Wishing

That Malcolm X story has been around for some time. There is certainly a resemblance.

resemblance in philosophy perhaps.............but the logistics, foresight and just plain difficulty of "seeding" the presidency is "Loony Tunes".

52 Wishing  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:32:05pm

re: #43 rightwinger3

I think Obama looks more like this guy. It ain't Malcolm X.


wow!

53 Karagush  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:32:31pm

re: #44 Thor-Zone

Thanks for fixing that......

i like to keep things sharp and on point.
Im still stinging from looking at the financials:( And this is just the start...

54 Perplexed  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:32:38pm

re: #7 Charles

You. Have. Got. To. Be. Kidding.

Yep, both males. Two arms. Two legs. Two eyes. Yep the resemblance is incredibly striking.

/////////////

55 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:32:47pm
56 teleskiguy  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:32:52pm

re: #38 Thor-Zone

I don't know about you guys, but BHO's first month sure has been expensive.


333 million dollars a day by my estimate. Ff(loud expletive deleted)!

57 phoenixgirl  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:32:55pm

re: #2 Wishing

but obama doesn't wear glasses/

58 calcajun  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:32:57pm

re: #39 Nevergiveup

Monroe prisoner amputates own penis

[Link: www.heraldnet.com...]

The prisoner, 49, already had amputated much of his genitals several years ago, prison spokeswoman Cathy Kopoian said.

Prisoners are permitted basic necessities, including razors, under state law, she said. Prison officials didn't consider the man at risk to harm himself.

On Thursday the man apparently used a razor blade to cut off what remained.

Good call?

His new-found social awareness forced hi, to take this step to keep from looking down on the unemployed.

59 Anthony (Los Angeles)  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:34:09pm

I gave a little money for that headstone, because I felt terrible (then and now) for yet another victim of honor killing -- and who, at the time, had only a pauper's marker, if I recall right. And now I'm sorry it's become such a damnable football. Aqsa Pervez doesn't deserve that.

I stopped reading Atlas a couple of years ago because her shrillness and all-or-nothing views. As a UK friend of mine would put it, she doesn't just go over the top: she's over the top and three trenches deep before the whistle even blows. Now I wish I had listened to my rational side and stayed away this time, too.

60 debutaunt  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:35:00pm

re: #54 Perplexed

Yep, both males. Two arms. Two legs. Two eyes. Yep the resemblance is incredibly striking.

/////////////

Loose Hope and Change will get right on this.

61 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:35:29pm

I don't feel the plan to erect a memorial or buy a gravestone is terribly inappropriate, although I can see the argument. But what is very clear is that Pamela's rabid antics and crazy conspiracy theories have lead people in the real world to consider her a nut and a problem. It's easy to get sucked into the accolades from fellow nuts on the internet but that doesn't change the fact that she's still a nut in the real world. Normal people don't want to be involved with her.
Judging from her reaction to this article it's pretty clear that she doesn't see the problem.

62 snowcrash  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:36:39pm

So Aqsa lies in only a numbered plot in a cemetery? Her murderous family are the ones with no honor. Regretfully it is up to the family how to memorialize their child not Ms. Gellar. She should get permission to plant a tree and lay a plaque at the deceased girls high school where other young people can remember her by name.

63 UFO TOFU  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:37:39pm

re: #45 eon

How long before they just up and admit that Mexico is officially having a civil war?


It just seems to get worse and worse.

64 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:37:40pm

Well, leaving the balance of Geller's outrageous views aside for the moment, at least she was trying to memorialize the honour killing victim and publicize the cause.
As far I am concerned it is truly pathetic that her murderers have still not been tried and convicted. I understand that the charges are winding through the courts at the usual snail's pace, but the lack of media coverage of the issue smacks of dhimmitude to me.

65 Kronocide  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:38:12pm

Malcom X
Barack Obama
XO is the grade of Hennessey that Kim Il Jong drinks so much of.
If you draw a line from North Korea-Kenya-Chicago, it will make a perfect triangle, which is the same shape as the pyramid on our dollar bill, the one with the all seeing eye on it.
Washington DC lands at the exact center of where the eye would be at the top of the pyramid.
So, it makes sense that Obama is Malcom X's son. At least to somebody as intelligent as I are.

66 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:38:13pm

re: #62 snowcrash

She should get permission to plant a tree and lay a plaque at the deceased girls high school where other young people can remember her by name.


She tried that but the school refused to allow it because of Pamela's nuttiness.

67 VioletTiger  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:38:44pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout
Agree. And nuts attract nuttier nuts.

68 opnion  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:39:05pm

That Obama , Malcom X thing, Fahgedaboudit!
The real story is that Michael Moore is the love child of Helen Thomas & Fidel Castro. He just has a thyroid condition, maybe.

69 Truck Monkey  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:39:14pm

re: #64 Spare O'Lake

Ding ding ding ding. It is a shame that I have only one upding to give.

70 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:39:23pm

What about the money? Will she have to give it back to the donors?

71 Soona'  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:40:00pm

re: #65 BigPapa

Malcom X
Barack Obama
XO is the grade of Hennessey that Kim Il Jong drinks so much of.
If you draw a line from North Korea-Kenya-Chicago, it will make a perfect triangle, which is the same shape as the pyramid on our dollar bill, the one with the all seeing eye on it.
Washington DC lands at the exact center of where the eye would be at the top of the pyramid.
So, it makes sense that Obama is Malcom X's son. At least to somebody as intelligent as I are.

And your real name is Louis Farrahkan?
//

72 Truck Monkey  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:40:15pm

re: #68 opnion

That Obama , Malcom X thing, Fahgedaboudit!
The real story is that Michael Moore is the love child of Helen Thomas & Fidel Castro. He just has a thyroid condition, maybe.

Love, child, and Helen Thomas do not belong in the same sentence together.

73 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:40:19pm

re: #65 BigPapa

Malcom X
Barack Obama
XO is the grade of Hennessey that Kim Il Jong drinks so much of.
If you draw a line from North Korea-Kenya-Chicago, it will make a perfect triangle, which is the same shape as the pyramid on our dollar bill, the one with the all seeing eye on it.
Washington DC lands at the exact center of where the eye would be at the top of the pyramid.
So, it makes sense that Obama is Malcom X's son. At least to somebody as intelligent as I are.

David Icke is on line two.

74 teleskiguy  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:40:30pm

re: #65 BigPapa

Now that's some twisted, perverted logic! We all should have known better. Now we can begin rectifying the situation, yes?

75 rightwinger3  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:40:49pm

re: #61 Killgore Trout

KT, well put. Anybody can be an idiot as jsiscool23 and have adoring fans, but when you are an idiot as John Smith people know. And right-thinking people will avoid you.

76 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:40:57pm

re: #40 Killgore Trout

Heh.

That line alone was worth the price of admission.

77 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:40:58pm

re: #70 MandyManners

Will she have to give it back to the donors?


That's where these things get really ugly.

78 LionofDixon  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:41:04pm

The way he's been acting lately, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that he was the love child of Karl Marx........Now I go back to work to pay for my neighbor's mortgage.

79 n in wi  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:42:03pm

re: #65 BigPapa

Malcom X
Barack Obama
XO is the grade of Hennessey that Kim Il Jong drinks so much of.
If you draw a line from North Korea-Kenya-Chicago, it will make a perfect triangle, which is the same shape as the pyramid on our dollar bill, the one with the all seeing eye on it.
Washington DC lands at the exact center of where the eye would be at the top of the pyramid.
So, it makes sense that Obama is Malcom X's son. At least to somebody as intelligent as I are.


I knew the Free Masons where involved.

80 opnion  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:42:45pm

re: #72 Truck Monkey

Love, child, and Helen Thomas do not belong in the same sentence together.

It is a weird concept, but Fidel was drunk

81 Bleepless  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:43:12pm

Talk about silly! Everybody knows that Malcolm X was the secret love child of Charles Darwin. Or Millard Fillmore. Or both.

82 Dustyvet  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:43:22pm

re: #43 rightwinger3

I think Obama looks more like this guy. It ain't Malcolm X.

Well it's Friday, with some fast foot work, maybe they can get him booked for SNL this week.

83 Truck Monkey  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:44:02pm

re: #80 opnion

It is a weird concept, but Fidel was drunk

Had to be to jump in the rack with Medusa.

84 Thor-Zone  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:44:11pm

re: #80 opnion

It is a weird concept, but Fidel was drunk

And also, apparently temporarily blind.

85 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:44:47pm

re: #77 Killgore Trout

That's where these things get really ugly.

And highly entertaining for those in the peanut gallery.

86 chicago blonde  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:45:00pm

re: #65 BigPapa

You forgot the Illuminati and Reptilian tangent.

87 chicago blonde  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:45:16pm

re: #86 chicago blonde

And yes,

////////////////////////////////////////

88 nyc redneck  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:45:20pm

pamela's dog and pony show is so inappropriate for such a solemn occasion.
barging her way into this and taking over.
maybe the girl has some family members who care for her.
or pamela could have worked w/ her friends and let them make decisions since they actually know her.
mourning a loved one is a personal thing.
pamela may have meant well but she needs to learn some discretion and subtlety, even if it an issue she feels strongly abt.
other wise it looks like the whole thing is abt. her and not the deceased young woman who was murdered by her father in the name of islam.
this tragedy is abt. sensitivity and awareness.
not self promotion.

89 LionOfDixon  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:45:25pm

re: #80 opnion

Just like the words "Barney Frank", "Stimulus Package", "Caucus", and "Fannie" don't ever, ever belong in the same sentence.

90 opnion  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:45:43pm

re: #83 Truck Monkey

Had to be to jump in the rack with Medusa.

The room had to be really dark & then he snuk out as soon as she fell asleep.

91 teleskiguy  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:45:45pm

Well, it's been fun fellow lizards, but I have to drive 3 and a half hours to a town that I know all of us adore, yes, Boulder, Colorado, to see some righteous live music. Ciao!

92 Kronocide  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:46:33pm

Nice to know that Stinky's Vetting Machine has been running at optimal efficiency for some time now. Charles should license the technology out to the gubment.

Can only be used properly if you have a stiff spine and a huge sack, only problem.

93 JammieWearingFool  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:46:45pm

re: #46 Killian Bundy

2008 Weblog Award winner.

/go figure

Third place. She made her own badge.

Epic lame.

94 Dustyvet  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:46:51pm

re: #90 opnion

The room had to be really dark & then he snuk out as soon as she fell asleep.

1 bagger, two bagger, or a coyote?

/S

95 snopercod  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:50:05pm

I hate to see conservatives destroying each other.

96 opnion  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:51:05pm

re: #94 Dustyvet

1 bagger, two bagger, or a coyote?

/S

Nah, he didn't have to knaw his own arm off.

97 Chicago Blonde  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:52:10pm

Gotta go, BBL

98 Spare O'Lake  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:53:21pm

re: #64 Spare O'Lake

Of course I would never say he told you so.

Boy did someone I know quite well ever take it in the ear for that comment! LOL.

99 Kronocide  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:53:28pm

re: #95 snopercod

You mean, destroying themselves? They don't bring me down.

100 snowcrash  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 3:58:55pm

Very sad story. A scholarship or writing contest or something should be created so Aqsa is remembered in spite of her families wish to erase her memory. Seems such a tragic waste of a young life. Don't care either way about Ms. Gellar, she seems a pro at self promotion. She has $4,000 and a big mouth, it is time to investigate some different memorial options and stop using the publicity.

101 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 4:06:21pm
[...] in my non-professional opinion, she’s at least a few chickpeas short of a falafel.

Over on Atlas Simpers, crazy Pam takes this as evidence that the author is a anti-Semite.

Not kidding.

102 NY Nana  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 4:06:46pm

re: #77 Killgore Trout

This thread should be kept as the top thread for a week, at least, for anyone who wonders why we are so anti-Geller LOOK AT ME, ME, ME!

I never even entertained the idea that she could go any lower than the night when she went after Charles, her 'blog daddy' . Was I ever wrong! She keeps going lower, lower and lower, and I will bet that she has yet to reach bottom.

Sorry for the caps and the bold, but yes, I am that pissed.

103 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 4:07:04pm

re: #95 snopercod

It's a big mistake to equate populist demagoguery with conservatism.

104 GFinOaktown  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 4:07:50pm

I'd have to say that everything cited in the article excerpt above seems pretty accurate to me.

105 Wilderstad  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 4:16:07pm

Drive by smears from the comments section following the article from a poster calling himself Michael Pilgrim:


Speaking of Google, check out the images of Ms. Geller. Interesting who she hangs with. Isn't that Ezra Levant? Birds of a feather, perhaps?

And by Restless in Toronto:

Notice Robert Spencer - from the similarly themed Jihad Watch - has commented above. Interesting to note that both have been booted from Little Green Footballs (itself a cesspool of anti-Muslim bigotry) for being too extreme and supporting white supremacist groups. When you're too bigoted for Little Green Footballs, you know you've reached a new level of hate.
106 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 4:28:10pm
107 Scion9  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 4:30:13pm

re: #105 Wilderstad

Restless in Toronto forgot to mention how racist most of us are for not voting for Barack Obama.

108 Irish Rose  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 4:36:56pm

This was a stunt, and it galls me to see someone exploiting the death of this child for personal gain.

I'm sure that Pamela is as incensed about honor killings as the rest of us are, and rightfully so. But this "fundraiser" and her involvement with it were never about the child, really... it was an inappropriate act of aggressive self-promotion that backfired.

She'll never admit that of course, not even to herself.

109 Pastorius  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:09:57pm

61 Kilgore, 62, and 64,
Pamela's efforts have unmasked her family. Her family really does not want her to be honored with a headstone. They really want her to lie in an unmarked grave.

Whatever one might think of Pamela, for whatever reason, she has done well in this case.

110 Pastorius  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:14:47pm

Without a name behind it, no effort to raise money for Aqsa would have been successful at all.

Pamela has traffic. Traffic means she has a name. She lent her name to the cause.

If I lent my name to the cause, very little money would be raised.

Good on her. She did well.

111 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:18:48pm

One of the reasons why I'm critical of islam is because I am a feminist, that is that I believe in a woman's right to self determination. Obviously, it was a right Ms. Parvez was denied, and her attempt to have any control over her own life was paid for with her own blood. Demanding respect for a woman once she's already dead is too late, and I have seen nothing to suggest that Ms Geller is concerned, much less aware, about the feminist movement within islam. Rather it seems she is predominately concerned with herself. Ms Parvez was exploited in life by islamic misogyny, and didn't need to be exploited in death so an egomaniac could look as though she cares about the fate of muslim women. For indeed- Ms Geller hasn't apparently taken the time to consider the fate of muslim women throughout europe should her friends in vlaams belang gain all the political power they so desperately want. Rather, these women would be getting thrown to the wolves in being forced to go live in islamic societies where their murders would likely go unpunished. This gravestone would not stop a single additional honor killing from taking place. But pamela wants to think she's doing something about the issue. She's not in the slightest, and for her to think otherwise is delusional.

112 researchok  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:19:47pm

Let's put the fire out.

Geller deserves appreciation for her efforts- Parvez deserves better than an unmarked grave. That said, turn the funds raised over to her friends, those who loved her and knew her best. Let them determine the best way to memorialize Aqsa Parvez.

113 researchok  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:23:47pm

re: #109 Pastorius

You are right. Whether one agrees with Geller's politics or ideology or not, this particular effort is worthy.

Find a way, make it work.

114 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:24:43pm
115 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:27:01pm

re: #114 TheGrandMufti

Get off my website.

116 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:31:59pm

re: #113 researchok

You are right. Whether one agrees with Geller's politics or ideology or not, this particular effort is worthy.

Find a way, make it work.

Question for those of you who think butting your nose into a family's private business -- the death of their daughter -- is a really cool idea: where are you going to draw that line? Would it still be really cool if the headstone said something you didn't like -- say, "Praise Allah" -- and Geller decided to raise money to replace it? What if they disagreed with the message Geller wanted to put on their daughter's grave?

Why the hell is it anyone's business but the family's?

This is simply disgusting. It's not her business at all. And the whole point of this is for Pamela Geller to get some more publicity and feed her already raging, out-of-control ego. It's wrong on so many levels, I'm honestly shocked that there are people defending it.

117 Summer Seale  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:34:54pm

It is amazing to me what Pamela actually does for attention. Let's face it, she's an attention whore.

She has no subtlety, no wit, no intelligence. All she has is rage.

She appears to believe that rage was what made Oriana Fallaci famous, or what gave her last stand validity above the rest. She is unable to comprehend that Oriana had a lifetime of sage words behind that rage. If all you see are Oriana's final words, you might be sorely tempted to dismiss them until you read more about her history and work.

That is what gave Oriana's rage the validity it had earned. Oriana wasn't just any idiot ranting the way Pamela rants; Oriana was one of the best and had earned that right.

Rage was not all that Oriana had expressed. Rage was the culmination of seeing the betrayal of what she spent a lifetime expressing.

Pamela has no credit to her name. All that Pamela started with was rage. The more time passes, the louder she gets. Pamela isn't finishing her career with an operatic loud masterpiece of an aria, she thinks she can start it and get louder than the last one on stage.

That isn't how it works, Pamela. Sometimes, a loud song is fine, but most people want to hear music most of the time.

Most sane people, anyway.

Pamela, why don't you shut yourself down for a while and take a sabbatical for, say, a year? Try to relax. Try to breathe the air and travel and interview people. Become the great reporter that Oriana was before she earned the right to write a masterpiece of a rant. Perhaps you'll see what you've been all along.

For now, all you do is rant. But good rants are also sewn with skill, wit, and experience - none of which you have. Perhaps it would be a good idea to acquire them first before you try to pick up such a delicate brush.

Pamela, you are not Oriana Fallaci. You are not a masterful reporter with vast swathes of experience.

What you are, increasingly, is just unhinged.

118 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:35:14pm

re: #109 Pastorius

61 Kilgore, 62, and 64,
Pamela's efforts have unmasked her family. Her family really does not want her to be honored with a headstone. They really want her to lie in an unmarked grave.

Whatever one might think of Pamela, for whatever reason, she has done well in this case.


I think it's more about Pam than Aqsa. My proof? There are hundreds of unmarked graves in both Afghanistan and Pakistan like this, is Pam getting headstones for those? There are many women in Afghanistan right now who need help with burn and acid medical treatments, is Pam doing anything for them? There are girl's schools razed in both Afghanistan and Pakistan, is Pam raising money for those? There are Islamic womens' rights organizations fighting this misogyny that runs back to pre-Islamic times all across the subcontinent right at its roots. Is Pam doing anything for groups like RAWA? No?

She's only doing something for the instance that has the most publicity because that's what she's a whore for.

119 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:36:39pm

re: #113 researchok

You are right. Whether one agrees with Geller's politics or ideology or not, this particular effort is worthy.

Find a way, make it work.

You want to really help? See my reply to Pastorius, there are several ways you can help there.

120 researchok  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:38:40pm

re: #116 Charles

In an ideal world, you'd be right. It is none of our business. That said, the horses have been let out of the barn for a long time.

I'm not a Geller fan by any means. In fact, your post earlier this week clearly addressed those for whom mass murder, deportations and God knows what other indignities ought to be heaped on every Muslim- and Geller makes clear where she stands.

Still, even broken clocks are right twice a day. Ought we use them as reliable timepieces? No, but they are still right twice a day.

121 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:40:52pm

re: #113 researchok

You are right. Whether one agrees with Geller's politics or ideology or not, this particular effort is worthy.

Find a way, make it work.

I'm disgusted by the family -- the older brother attemptin to cover up what the father did, et cetera -- but this is something for which the family has to remain accountable.

122 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:41:22pm

RAWA

PWA

Put your money where you mouth is Gellar lovers.

123 researchok  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:43:33pm

re: #119 Thanos

I do agree. Still, we are selective whom we memorialize. That's our world, for better or worse.

Charles is right. It really is none of our business and should never be.

It is also true that a few Muslims have made it our business by insisting we 'tolerate' their 'cultural' distinctions.

124 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:44:06pm

re: #120 researchok

In an ideal world, you'd be right. It is none of our business. That said, the horses have been let out of the barn for a long time.

Really. So you agree it's nobody's business but the family's, but still think it's appropriate to stage a huge publicity stunt like this -- against the family's wishes?

In what way is this a "conservative" viewpoint -- to dictate to the family of a murdered girl how they should remember their daughter?

125 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:45:50pm

OUR tombstone isn't needed. Let the girl be remembered in other ways, we will not forget her ... and publicize the living hell out of the family's callousness.

That callousness is the problem. Put it upon billboards. Point the finger. Name the name.

/tombstones are a distraction.

126 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:46:35pm

re: #120 researchok

That post is full of platitudes. No substance.

127 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:48:33pm

I better leave this fight to others.
If I get further off on that family ... ...

/could get toxic

128 researchok  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:49:40pm

Charles, I'm not at odds with you, I'm simply addressing an ugly reality. She has already made this an issue.

What I'm saying is, 'put the fire out.' Take the wind out if Geller's sails. Let Pervez' friends establish the memorial. If they don't want to erect a tombstone for her, so be it. There are many ways a person can be honored and remembered.

Let those who knew her and loved her find a way to memorialize her.

129 Marc L  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:50:09pm

So, the family wishes her to lie in an unmarked grave because of the shame she caused them. It was their decision to murder her and their decision not to memorialize her. Your argument then is that we should not impose our culture on them?

130 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:52:19pm

re: #129 Marc L

So, the family wishes her to lie in an unmarked grave because of the shame she caused them. It was their decision to murder her and their decision not to memorialize her. Your argument then is that we should not impose our culture on them?

I'm not "arguing" anything. It's absolutely none of your business. Disgusting.

131 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:52:20pm

It's quite simple. This grave marker isn't going to stop any other honor killings. It isn't going to force islamic societies to treat women with respect.

With all of her vast connections, has pamela supported safe houses for muslim girls in peril? How about legislation to help fight FGM? No? She's just highlighting the horrors of honor killings? So have many other people, all without the exploitation of the dead for shameless self-promotion.

And promoting the horror of honor killings only goes so far when the rest of one's message is so outrageous that it turns people away from any other aspects one is trying to point out. So- she also fails on that front too. She's not working to promote awareness of islamic misogyny, she's working to get attention for herself. Sadly, it's the victims of honor killings that help pamela obfuscate her intentions. They are exploited in death so pamela can appear as though she cares about their fate.

132 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:52:44pm

Here come the sleepers.

133 Bloodnok  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:54:02pm

re: #131 Sharmuta

It's quite simple. This grave marker isn't going to stop any other honor killings. It isn't going to force islamic societies to treat women with respect.

With all of her vast connections, has pamela supported safe houses for muslim girls in peril? How about legislation to help fight FGM? No? She's just highlighting the horrors of honor killings? So have many other people, all without the exploitation of the dead for shameless self-promotion.

And promoting the horror of honor killings only goes so far when the rest of one's message is so outrageous that it turns people away from any other aspects one is trying to point out. So- she also fails on that front too. She's not working to promote awareness of islamic misogyny, she's working to get attention for herself. Sadly, it's the victims of honor killings that help pamela obfuscate her intentions. They are exploited in death so pamela can appear as though she cares about their fate.

Spot on as always.

134 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:55:22pm

If Pamela Geller and her bigoted friends had their way, this girl would never have been allowed to enter Canada or the US. But now that she's dead, suddenly Geller is her champion.

Retch.

135 Summer Seale  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:56:28pm

re: #131 Sharmuta

Pamela is such an incredible attention whore that it makes me sad.

Charles did well to distance himself from her antics when she associated herself with those Fascist groups.

I wonder how much rage she saved up for the members of those groups who were caught on video singing anti-Semitic songs, among other things?

Geller? Geller? Anyone? Anyone?

136 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:57:31pm

A more fitting tribute might be to name a foundation after Ms Parvez- one that would help other muslim girls in crisis and under threat of death.

A grave marker isn't going to stop another honor killing from happening.

And exploitations like this turn decent people off from looking further into islamic misogyny, and that's what's really hurting any other girls in peril at this moment- that decent people are unaware of their need for help.

137 NY Nana  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 5:58:31pm

re: #134 Charles

I tend to judge people by the company they keep, from past experiences, and this photo of Geller with Robert Spencer is most telling.

138 rightymouse  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:00:21pm

There are so many other ways to memorialize a person, i.e. on the web - a virtual headstone for Aqsa on a website? Intruding into what is rightly the family's domain at the gravesite is creepy, regardless of the circumstances.

139 researchok  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:01:20pm

re: #134 Charles

Agreed.

A few years ago I was asked to contribute to a headstone fund. I did, as did many others, quietly and without fanfare. No one sought recognition or acknowledgment and to the best of my knowledge, no one ever spoke of it.

There's a lesson there. Not everything need be self serving.

140 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:03:55pm

A different Nadia, one Pamela probably doesn't even know about.

Escape (Gul-e Dudi)

Our hearts are tired of pain and poverty

Finally we became lost in the dust and darkness

We are going now and won’t return a second time

It is such a pleasure to escape from these absurdities

We were birds of the garden, in the world’s trap

We were caught without reason and are stuck in this filth

Everyone hurts our short wings with arrows

Next time we won’t have to bear these tortures

We don’t seek to make any effort

Our hearts are tired of pain and poverty

2000

Nadia's dead at the hands of Islamist Misogyny too, what's Pam doing for her?

141 RobCon  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:07:52pm

Please lay off Pamela, she is good, brave people.

142 Olderthandirt  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:08:49pm

Pamela Geller is off-center IMHO; only slightly on good days, far afield on other days. Her actions and causes can seem strange at best. Perhaps she's let that personal attention drift to her upper torso well above the neckline, influencing erratic behavior more frequently now. Realize that her behavior has been offbase on good days.

Her web site shows how much she adores herself and perhaps all that self-love has fermented into a sour mash.

143 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:11:01pm

re: #135 Summer

It took a lot of time, patience and love for me to get through to my cousin about islamic misogyny, and it was eventually through feminism that I made a breakthrough. Once I did get through to her, she began reading about the treatment of women in islamic societies with a gusto that made me quite proud. She's now repulsed to see very young little girls in hijab, because she knows those girls are having their rights, even under islam, violated.

But here's the thing- my cousin is quite liberal. You could say she's one of those people in the middle that we need to start having learn about islam if we're going to make a difference for muslim girls and women. And I can say, without a doubt, that pamela never, ever would have gotten through to my cousin. In fact, when I showed her robert's facebook antics, she was repulsed. In other words- my cousin is one of those decent people repelled by the likes of pam and bob. It took patience, time and reason to get another ally for our side. These are not pamela's weapons of choice.

144 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:11:34pm

re: #141 RobCon

Please lay off Pamela, she is good, brave people.

Right. She's wonderful. I especially love how she calls me a "traitor," who should be "flogged in public." What's not to love?

By the way, have you ever asked Geller to "lay off" me, when she posts one of her insane attacks?

No? Didn't think so.

145 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:12:43pm

re: #141 RobCon

Do good, brave people attack their friends publicly? Ask for them to be flogged when disagreements arise?

Perhaps your idea of what a good, brave person is should be re-examined.

146 surly  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:15:48pm
It's wrong on so many levels, I'm honestly shocked that there are people defending it.

Well, trying to put a memorial on a grave against a family's wishes, yes, wrong. But wanting to memorialize a murder victim not only for her own sake, but because her murder follows a pattern that will inevitably lead to other murders if not confronted, not so wrong, even if championed by a flake.

147 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:16:07pm

re: #141 RobCon

Do good, brave people side with Neo-Nazis?

148 rightymouse  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:17:50pm

re: #141 RobCon

Please lay off Pamela, she is good, brave people.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

149 Pastorius  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:24:07pm

118 Thanos,
I think it's more about Pam than Aqsa. My proof? There are hundreds of unmarked graves in both Afghanistan and Pakistan like this, is Pam getting headstones for those?


That sounds like the argument, commonly made by "anti-War" people, that we shouldn't do something about Iraq, because we aren't doing anything about Sudan.

Why do you think Aqsa Parvez is buried in an unmarked grave? And, why do you think her family has rejected the idea of having a headstone with her name on it?

And, here is the crucial question to me, is it a good thing that the story gets out that her family did, indeed, reject the idea of having a headstone with her name on it?

I think it is necessary to get that story out so that the general public becomes aware of the tremendous callousness the family is displaying over the murder.

When O.J. Simpson murdered his wife, the media put out stories which showed he did not much care that his wife died, and this helped people understand the truth of the story.

Now clearly, the media was interested in the story for it's tabloid aspect. But, that doesn't mean that we shouldn't have gotten the facts of the story.

In this case, it is a crucial fact of the story that Aqsa Parvez' family INTENDS for their daughter to be buried in a marked grave.

Now that we know that crucial truth, we know more of the complete picture of this apparent Honor Killing.

150 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:27:05pm

What is Pamela doing to Publicize USAID's efforts in Afghanistan? Anything at all?

151 Bloodnok  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:30:07pm

re: #141 RobCon

Please lay off Pamela, she is good, brave people.

The goal of her project was not appropriate and I would not think well of the motives even if it was perpetrated by someone I trust, let alone by someone who ranks on the self promotion scale between Bill Clinton and PT Barnum.

152 Pastorius  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:31:13pm

116 Charles,
Question for those of you think butting your nose into a family's private business -- the death of their daughter -- is a really cool idea: where are you going to draw that line?

I don't see this as the public butting their head into the private business of a family anymore than I would see stories of Ike Turner's abuse of Tina Turner as being an invasion of the privacy of their marriage.

It is not a "family matter".

As you know, that is, commonly, the cry of the abuser.

153 Pastorius  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:34:05pm

Charles
You said: I especially love how she calls me a "traitor," who should be "flogged in public."

Yes, now that's a problem, because that statement by Pamela veers awfully close to an incitement to violence against you.

154 researchok  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:34:07pm

For a very long time, Casey Sheehan had no headstone- that despite the fact that Cindy Sheehan (who always plead poverty) had plenty of cash at the time and supporters with even more money. Only when others wanted to fund a tombstone for Casey (and embarrass the woman who claimed to love her only son so much) did Cindy Sheehan manage to erect a marker.

Like it or not, these kind of grand, self serving gestures are a part of our cultural and political landscape. It isn't pretty, it isn't right and we're all the poorer for it.

Pamela Geller's actions are neither noble or malignant. They are entirely predictable in a world where style is celebrated over substance.

155 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:34:48pm

re: #153 Pastorius

Charles
You said: I especially love how she calls me a "traitor," who should be "flogged in public."

Yes, now that's a problem, because that statement by Pamela veers awfully close to an incitement to violence against you.

Ya think?

156 rightymouse  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:37:03pm

re: #152 Pastorius

There's a distinction here, though. By all means, shine the light on how she died and the ensuing callousness of her family, but one does not have the right to intrude on the gravesite when there is NO blood relation and one does not have permission. I'm sorry, but that is creepy and wrong-headed.

157 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:37:13pm

re: #152 Pastorius

Abusers exploit their victim, and exploiting this girl's death is exactly what pamela did.

158 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:37:52pm

re: #149 Pastorius

I'm not a mind reader, neither are you or Pam.

I don't know her familie's motives, to speculate on them without talking directly to them to ascertain why is no better that Ghoulish Greta and Nattering Nancy feasting on the latest murder until they've milked the last drop of voyeuristic pleasure for fans of populist sensationalism.

159 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:38:08pm

re: #153 Pastorius

Yes, now that's a problem, because that statement by Pamela veers awfully close to an incitement to violence against you.

That's putting it mildly.

160 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:38:25pm

re: #156 rightymouse

There's a distinction here, though. By all means, shine the light on how she died and the ensuing callousness of her family, but one does not have the right to intrude on the gravesite when there is NO blood relation and one does not have permission. I'm sorry, but that is creepy and wrong-headed.

It's beyond creepy. It's deranged.

I'm amazed that there are people who don't see this.

161 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:45:18pm

One other thing Pastorius: I suspect you have no argument against what I'm saying else you wouldn't be stooping to last resort of comparing me to leftists in this discussion already.

162 rightymouse  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:47:20pm

re: #160 Charles

It's beyond creepy. It's deranged.

I'm amazed that there are people who don't see this.

Me too.

163 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:50:36pm

Want to really help?

REACH

164 Pastorius  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:53:48pm

Thanos,
One other thing Pastorius: I suspect you have no argument against what I'm saying else you wouldn't be stooping to last resort of comparing me to leftists in this discussion already.


Was my point not an argument? I'm sorry. I do not understand.

Here's the thing, it is impossible to stand up against all the unrighteousness in the world. So, we all pick and choose our battles. If a person chooses to fight one battle at the expense of another, then having chosen not to fight the other battles does not, necessarily mean they don't care about the other battles.

That seems logical to me.

165 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 6:54:49pm

Thanos- thank you so much for all the wonderful links you've provided in this thread to truly help women. Bless you.

166 Macker  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 7:02:50pm

Whiskey. Tango. Foxtrot. [Shaking head in the negatory]

167 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 7:09:49pm

re: #164 Pastorius

Right - you pick your battle, and those with courage pick the right battle and persist. Pam's battle is for popularity, hence the scenery chewing on something that will be settled in Canadian courts while real living women are suffering from burns, bruises, and maiming.

Hence the sturm und drang over something that has already been so politicized and popularized that it's not news. If Pam could tie Muslims or Islam in even the faintest way to Natalee Holloway's murder you know she would be all over it like stink on shit.

168 patrickafir  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 7:14:38pm

LOL@"she’s at least a few chickpeas short of a falafel"

169 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 7:15:54pm

I think some people aren't thinking about the meaning of rights in the West.

We may disagree with Ms Parvez's family not honoring her with a grave marker, and obviously many of us do disagree with them on this, but it is their right- for good or ill, they have the right as next of kin. Imagine someone taking that right away from another family to remember their kin in the manner they feel is fitting. It doesn't matter if we agree or not- it's their right.

Because when the rights of one are undermined, it undermines everyone's rights. And just because one person may disagree on how another person exercises their rights, it doesn't give permission to violating them.

170 Dag Nabbitt  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 7:20:12pm

re: #156 rightymouse

Actually, non-relatives like friends, charities, churches, the U.S. military, etc., get involved in burials and grave markers all the time - when the deceased has no family, or the family is unable/unwilling to get involved.

In this case, there is a family. A family, however, whose interest in the deceased didn't extend past killing her.

171 Pastorius  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 7:24:44pm

Well Sharmuta and Thanos, I see that you disagree with the idea of contributing to a fund for a Casey Sheehan headstone.

So, you are consistent.

Myself? I think it's a great idea to contribute to a fund for Casey Sheehan's headstone. His mother made him a public figure. So, the public has the right to celebrate him.

In the case of Aqsa Parvez, it is my opinion that her father made her a public figure by killing her in the name of Islamic honor.

The public, therefore, has the right to celebrate her, and make her a martyr of sorts. I do not think this is wrongheaded. I think it is taking the tragedy of her death and turning it into a symbol for an important cause.

172 rightymouse  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 7:24:53pm

re: #169 Sharmuta

When we found out that two maternal ancestors were buried in Plymouth without headstones, just markers in the ground, we contacted EVERY living descendant for their input and permission to put in headstones.

Imagine if Aqsa's family decided to go around to Pamela's family burial plots and put in 'memorials' with wording of their own choice?

173 rightymouse  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 7:29:03pm

re: #170 Dag Nabbitt

Actually, non-relatives like friends, charities, churches, the U.S. military, etc., get involved in burials and grave markers all the time - when the deceased has no family, or the family is unable/unwilling to get involved.

In this case, there is a family. A family, however, whose interest in the deceased didn't extend past killing her.

When the deceased has no family, then by all means, others can and should be involved.

174 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 7:31:55pm

re: #171 Pastorius

If consistency means not using gravesides to grandstand, you are damned right. There are too many frothing idiots who do that already. (The Dems, Westboro Baptist, and the Aforementioned Cindy Sheehan)

Gravesides are a private place.

175 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 7:35:00pm

re: #171 Pastorius

Do I disagree with Cindy concerning Casey- you bet. Do I think it justifies me violating her rights to disrespect her child? No.

I think it is taking the tragedy of her death and turning it into a symbol for an important cause.

What cause? pamela's attention needs? How many girls will be spared the same fate as Ms Parvez because of this? My guess- not a single one. Some "cause".

It is Thanos who's highlighted worthy causes in this thread. I would welcome pamela, you or anyone to link to these organizations on their blogs and actually help real, live women under threat from islamic misogyny.

176 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 7:36:28pm

re: #175 Sharmuta

Do I disagree with Cindy concerning Casey- you bet. Do I think it justifies me violating her rights to disrespect her child? No.


What cause? pamela's attention needs? How many girls will be spared the same fate as Ms Parvez because of this? My guess- not a single one. Some "cause".

It is Thanos who's highlighted worthy causes in this thread. I would welcome pamela, you or anyone to link to these organizations on their blogs and actually help real, live women under threat from islamic misogyny.

/buh... buh ... but ... .that would mean helping Muslims...
That's not what they are about.

177 Dag Nabbitt  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 7:38:36pm

re: #172 rightymouse

Before we sanctify too much the wishes of this girl's family, let's remember that they killed her.

178 rightymouse  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 7:40:14pm

re: #177 Dag Nabbitt

Before we sanctify too much the wishes of this girl's family, let's remember that they killed her.

I know they did. Shine the light on that.

But leave her grave alone.

179 NY Nana  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 7:45:52pm

re: #131 Sharmuta

Absolutely right, Sharm.

What bothers me is that Atlas is the mother of 4 daughters, who have her as their example. She exploits them with videos, etc. And with all the trips she makes, I imagine that a housekeeper cares for them.

What kind of women they will grow up to be? I shudder to think, as I consider them to be victims of her self-aggrandizement. And she does love her daughters. Where is her mind?

180 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 7:46:01pm

re: #177 Dag Nabbitt

Her father is being prosecuted for killing her, and is probably who murdered her. Her brother might be implicated as well.
I don't know if you can make that blanket accusation inclusive of the rest of her family members unless you are some sort of mind reader.

181 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 7:46:45pm

re: #180 Thanos

Her father is being prosecuted for killing her, and is probably who murdered her. Her brother might be implicated as well.
I don't know if you can make that blanket accusation inclusive of the rest of her family members unless you are some sort of mind reader.

These people have holes in their souls.

182 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 7:47:48pm

Dag, that's Norwegian right? You a friend of Fjordy's Dag?

183 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 7:49:05pm

re: #177 Dag Nabbitt

No one is defending this family's actions, just their right as next of kin. Why is this distinction so difficult to grasp?

Do you have a deceased family member? Imagine an outsider thinking the grave marker at your family member's grave was inadequate, or perhaps it's too much in their opinion, and without your consent, they tried to change that to reflect what they thought should be there. Wouldn't you find that offensive?

Regardless- this gravestone will not save another girl from meeting the same fate, so what is the point?

185 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:00:42pm
186 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:03:32pm

re: #185 bluexr4ti

Hope you have flea powder- you're going to need it over at robert's.

187 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:03:59pm

re: #185 bluexr4ti

Get off my website.

188 jaunte  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:04:21pm

Self-absorbed delusion.

Like they say, "if you spot it, you got it."

189 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:04:31pm

Another sleeper.

190 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:05:43pm

re: #185 bluexr4ti

There are thousands of "anti-jihad" bloggers. The majority aren't associated with fascists, and the effective ones aren't hysterical. Charles is just a blogger, ya don't like what you read then there's a full spectrum, including several Eurofascist hate sites where you can pump venom til your veins explode.

191 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:07:11pm

Sisters in Islam - Fighting fundamentalism where it counts, in the subcontinent.

192 Charles Johnson  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:17:14pm

They're not finished popping up yet. There will be more.

193 Irish Rose  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:25:07pm

Pamela and Robert were both very well aware, even before they started raising funds for this project, that the family might object to the marker, and ask for it to be removed.

From her blog post dated December 10, 2008:

UPDATE: From the Toronto Sun: "For $580, the cemetery can put a flat marker there -- with her name, date of birth and death, and at least people can find her if they want to come to pay their respects. A cemetery employee said there is no problem if others want to place a flat memorial there but it would be removed if the family were to demand that."


We are doing this!

Geller and Spencer pressed ahead together with this project to pick a fight, and make an example out of this family.

She raised nearly seven times more than was necessary for a basic marker, and when the family predictably refused to allow her headstone to be put on the daughters' grave, Pamelas' public reaction was equally predictable. From her blog entry dated Jan. 22, 2009:

Robert Spencer and I have pursued the headstone marker furiously. We approved the headstone back on December 23rd (here), The bottom line is that the family (her alleged murderers) has to "sign off" on it. We are still waiting for them to look at the headstone. Clearly they are the obstacle

She and Spencer are busy trying to ram their project down the families' throat here, while trying at the same time to circumvent their wishes and have the marker placed in a spot nearby that they have no control over. Absolutely pathetic.

She brags about the following exchange with the hapless cemetary personel:

Here is the last exchange with the cemetery:

Hi Pamela,

I just had a conversation with my boss and the conclusion is that the only option to memorialize Aqsa is the marker for her grave. We do not have a Memorial tree option and the land on Section 17 does not allow for a bench as you need a large open space for it and the section does not have that space.

Thanks,
Philip

Philip, The family is not going to memorialize this girl. She has shamed the family. Sharia law will not allow this girl a headstone. Am I to understand that if the family does not sign off on the headstone that the cemetery in this free, western nation will submit to the barbarity of a misogynist barbaric code and allow this girl to rot in an unmarked grave?

Yours in liberty,
Pamela Geller


UPDATE: I think it speaks volumes to how far down the rabbit hole the West has gone that the family that murdered her in the name of Islam, can stop a marker or headstone in the name of Islam.

Bottom line:
She knew all along what was going to happen here.

This was done for publicity, and for publicities' sake alone.

194 NY Nana  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:25:29pm

re: #192 Charles

/Would this help?

195 medaura18586  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:32:35pm

re: #176 Thanos

/buh... buh ... but ... .that would mean helping Muslims...
That's not what they are about.

You and Sharmuta are smokin' hot tonight on this thread!

And can we please do something about those creepy postmortem Mormon baptisms?

196 Dag Nabbitt  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:47:34pm

re: #180 Thanos

Not mind reading, really since the relevant "family" here, those who can legally make estate, burial, headstone, etc. decisions, are only her two parents, the next-of-kin. Dad's role isn't a mystery. But if Mom testifies against dad at trial (or at least divorces him!), I'll admit to being half-wrong.

197 leap  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 8:59:52pm

re: #136 Sharmuta

100% agree on the setting up of a foundation. More noble and more effective.

198 freefall  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:09:03pm

This author of this article is mistaken. He seems to confuse Pamela Geller with Ann Coulter. She is the one that call BO B. Hussein.

Pamela Geller may be over the top but I guarantee you that the family is too frickin afraid to put anything on that grave.

199 DistantThunder  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:10:32pm

re: #195 medaura18586

You and Sharmuta are smokin' hot tonight on this thread!

And can we please do something about those creepy postmortem Mormon baptisms?

Baptism for the Dead is an ancient Christian practice referred to by Paul in 1 Cor 15:29 Else why are they baptised for the dead if the dead rise not at all? Why then are they baptised for the dead?

Coptic Christians practiced it extensively.

200 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:15:22pm

re: #198 freefall

No- pamela has called 0bama that repeatedly.

201 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 20, 2009 9:20:14pm

re: #196 Dag Nabbitt

You didn't answer my other question, Dag is Norwegian or Swedish in origin, you a friend of Fjordman's? Read Gjallarhorn or Vigrid by chance?

202 Pygmalienation  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 3:59:01am

re: #193 Irish Rose

Ugggh! Seeing the exchange laid out like that really lays bare the shrill, pathetic, unhinged nature of this affair. That poor cemetery worker--likely just a minimum wage guy-- transformed into a lightning rod for (PG's perceived) Western Dhimmitude. As if he'd even given due consideration to the "greater Societal issues" she was ramming down his throat. Sheeesh...

203 SalsaNChips  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 4:22:15am

Read the comments to Chris Selley's article. He's getting roasted...

Yes, Pam Geller has some very strong opinions on Islam, BHO, etc. I have some very strong opinions on Ted Kennedy. When Ted Kennedy dies, if I were to donate money to his memorial fund and announce it on a personal blog, would I be guilty of a "disgusting publicity stunt"?

IMO, what Pam is doing is a not particularly well thought out attempt to honor the memory of a brutally murdered Muslim girl. She should have worked out the logistics *before* accepting donations.

Just my $0.00002...

204 pokeefe  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 4:30:16am

Andrew Klaven writes:

But the whole way liberals work is to redefine manners and morals in such a fashion that conservative common sense automatically becomes hateful. If you note that women and men are different, you’re misogynistic. If you denounce the destruction of marriage in black communities, you’re racist or moralistic. If you call for the defense of America against the world-wide Islamist menace, you’re a bigoted warmonger. If we take this garbage seriously even for an instant, we spend our whole lives playing catch-up, saying sorry, going on defense.

Coulter’s answering strategy is to blow all that foolishness away. She says the unsayable thing, does it with intelligence, humor and style and gets the world exactly right far more often than not. "

Pam too.

205 [deleted]  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 4:43:48am
206 Dag Nabbitt  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 5:28:22am

re: #201 Thanos

Full disclosure: Some years ago, I had my last name legally changed from "Gummit".

Which I think is French.

207 Irish Rose  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 5:31:23am

re: #202 Pygmalienation

Ugggh! Seeing the exchange laid out like that really lays bare the shrill, pathetic, unhinged nature of this affair. That poor cemetery worker--likely just a minimum wage guy-- transformed into a lightning rod for (PG's perceived) Western Dhimmitude. As if he'd even given due consideration to the "greater Societal issues" she was ramming down his throat. Sheeesh...

Indeed.

208 Irish Rose  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 6:06:01am

re: #205 manorrd

Yeah, really noble.
Her motive here is as pure as the driven snow, right?

I guess you missed Pamelas' non-attention-seeking response to the National Post (which btw, has 203,781 Daily readers and 217,115 Saturday readers):


I only wish to add that, the next time Mr. Selley and your newspaper decide to call me out in public, I request that you spell out my name, the name of my blog, and give me a link.

Read that again, and keep reading it until it sinks in.

Now let me ask you and the other people here who are still defending the purity of Ms. Gellers' motives: what part of this comment from Charles at #116 above, do you not understand?

re: #116 Charles

Question for those of you who think butting your nose into a family's private business -- the death of their daughter -- is a really cool idea: where are you going to draw that line? Would it still be really cool if the headstone said something you didn't like -- say, "Praise Allah" -- and Geller decided to raise money to replace it? What if they disagreed with the message Geller wanted to put on their daughter's grave?

Why the hell is it anyone's business but the family's?

This is simply disgusting. It's not her business at all. And the whole point of this is for Pamela Geller to get some more publicity and feed her already raging, out-of-control ego. It's wrong on so many levels, I'm honestly shocked that there are people defending it.

And if that doesn't make you think, how about this comment from rightymouse, #172:

Imagine if Aqsa's family decided to go around to Pamela's family burial plots and put in 'memorials' with wording of their own choice?

Sheesh.

If you really want this to be a worthwhile project, then contact Pamela and ask her to contribute the money to a shelter that feeds, houses and protects Muslim woman who are victims of domestic violence so that more women like Aqsa Parvez do not have to suffer the same fate. The money would be much better spent.

And suggest to her that she try to do it without a lot of self-promotional fanfare or requests for blog links and media coverage.

209 medaura18586  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 6:39:40am

re: #208 Irish Rose

I think you pressed the wrong ding button on that one.

210 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 7:20:02am

re: #204 pokeefe

You're comparing pamela to Ann Coulter. Now, that's kind of fitting, and I'm guessing you don't even know why.

211 Aye Pod  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 7:23:05am

I find Geller's interest in this to be disgustingly exploitative; reminds me of the movie "Ace in the Hole".

212 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 8:10:27am

re: #208 Irish Rose

I request that you spell out my name, the name of my blog, and give me a link.

She really is shameless, isn't she?

213 Irish Rose  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 8:14:36am

If we follow the logic of Geller and Spencer, all Muslims are animals anyway and not deserving of even the most basic human respect. In their minds its' perfectly acceptable to use their "marker" to trample all over the girls' surviving family members, pick a fight and score media points. They're just dirty Muslims, after all.... right Pam?

I agree that it's tragic that the child does not have a grave marker, but Spencer and Geller had absolutely no right to shamelessly assert themselves in such a profoundly private family matter.

In doing so, in using her remains in such a shamelessly exploitative manner, they revictimized the poor child all over again.

And that is simply inexcusible, in my book.

214 Irish Rose  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 8:16:36am

re: #212 Sharmuta

She really is shameless, isn't she?

Yes.

215 anotherindyfilmguy  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 10:25:25am

He's not part of a Muslim plot... it's the remnants of the radical 60's/70's anarchists etc that he pals around with and is mentored by... destroy the system from within by bankrupting it etc... which is really annoying the Chinese who thought they'd have Shrillary as their puppet POTUS by now since they missed with Gore...
//////

216 [deleted]  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 5:04:15pm
217 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 5:06:02pm

re: #216 Cutty Sark

GUTS would be doing something to protect these girls before they're killed.

218 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 5:12:12pm

re: #216 Cutty Sark

That's enough. Get off my site.

219 Sharmuta  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 6:06:29pm

re: #218 Charles

I always thought it would be a creationist meltdown with that one. Who knew he was also a pammy fan? I suppose- one kook deserves another.

220 [deleted]  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 8:51:14pm
221 Charles Johnson  Sat, Feb 21, 2009 10:45:06pm

re: #220 monumentlizard

Piss off.

222 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 23, 2009 8:50:26am
223 [deleted]  Mon, Feb 23, 2009 1:42:26pm
224 Charles Johnson  Mon, Feb 23, 2009 2:13:58pm

They always do this at the end of old threads.


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