LGF

more options

  

Advertisement

The Top 3 GOP Governors: All Creationists

Politics | Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 5:11:28 pm PST

Here’s an Associated Press article on three Republican governors who are being looked at as front runners in the 2012 presidential election: Mark Sanford, Tim Pawlenty, and Bobby Jindal.

All creationists.

Mark Sanford:

Newswatch * WIS * TV * January 29, 2006
Host: David Stanton
Guest: Gov. Mark Sanford

DS: What do you think about the idea of teaching alternatives to Darwin’s Theory of Evolution in public schools* for instance Intelligent Design?

Gov. Sanford: I have no problem with it.

DS: Do you think it should be done that way? Rather than just teaching evolution?

Gov. Sanford: Well I think that it’s just, and science is more and more documenting this, is that there are real “chinks” in the armor of evolution being the only way we came about. The idea of there being a, you know, a little mud hole and two mosquitoes get together and the next thing you know you have a human being* is completely at odds with, you know, one of the laws of thermodynamics which is the law of, of ... in essence, destruction.

Whether you think about your bedroom and how messy it gets over time or you think about the decay in the building itself over time. Things don’t naturally order themselves towards progression*. Uuummm.. in the natural order of things. So, it’s in fact, it’s against fairly basic laws of physics* and so I would not have a problem in teaching both * Uh, you saying this is one theory and this is another theory.

(Ouch. That gave me a headache.)

Tim Pawlenty:

MR. BROKAW: Okay. In the governor’s race, she refused to be specific about her views on Creationism versus evolution. But, as I understand it, she did say that she thought that the two subjects should be taught side-by-side in public schools. Do you think that’s a good idea?

GOV. PAWLENTY: I saw her comments on it yesterday, and I thought they were appropriate, which is, you know, let’s — if there are competing theories, and they are credible, her view of it was, according to the comments in the newspaper, allow them all to be presented or allow them both to be presented so students could be exposed to both or more and have a chance to be exposed to the various theories and make up their own minds.

MR. BROKAW: In the vast scientific community, do you think that Creationism has the same weight as evolution, and at a time in American education when we are in a crisis when it comes to science, that there ought to be parallel tracks for Creationism versus evolution in the teaching?

GOV. PAWLENTY: In the scientific community, it seems like intelligent design is dismissed — not entirely, there are a lot of scientists who would make the case that it is appropriate to be taught and appropriate to be demonstrated, but in terms of the curriculum in the schools in Minnesota, we’ve taken the approach that that’s a local decision. I know Senator Palin — or Governor Palin — has said intelligent design is something that she thinks should be taught along with evolution in the schools, and I think that’s appropriate. My personal view is that’s a local decision —

MR. BROKAW: Given equal weight.

GOV. PAWLENTY: — of the local school board.

MR. BROKAW: And you would recommend it be given equal weight?

GOV. PAWLENTY: We’ve said in Minnesota, in my view, this is a local decision. Intelligent design is something that, in my view, is plausible and credible and something that I personally believe in but, more importantly, from an educational and scientific standpoint, it should be decided by local school boards at the local school district level.

And Bobby Jindal, who isn’t just talking about it; he promoted and signed into law a Discovery Institute-sponsored bill intended to sneak the teaching of creationism into Louisiana schools.

Some LGF readers ask me: Am I “obsessed?” Do I “hate Christians?” Why do I keep “harping” on this issue?

Answer: The top 3 GOP governors in America are all creationists, who have no problems with teaching pseudo-science to American children.

That’s why. This is wrong, and it’s one reason why the Democrats now control both houses of Congress. If this anti-scientific insanity continues, the Democrats will be in power for the next 20 years.

Advertisement

1327 comments

  • Comments are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Little Green Footballs.
  • Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by Little Green Footballs.
  • Posts that contain phone numbers, street addresses, email addresses or other personal information will also be deleted, as will posts that consist only of a variation on the word, "First!"
  • Comments that advocate violence will be cause for immediate banning with no appeal.
  • Disagreement and debate are welcome, but insults and abuse are not, and may cause your account to be blocked.
  • REMEMBER: posting comments at LGF is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account will be blocked.

Hide comments | Jump to bottom

1 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:12:25pm

Hey, Zombie, got that third party name yet?

2 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:12:45pm

Not Pawlenty! That name is enough to drive me over the edge.

3 DistantThunder  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:13:31pm

Time to throw Creationism under the bus.

4 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:14:36pm

I am truly bummed...Mark Sanford was a guy I thought I was confident with...damn

5 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:15:25pm
6 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:15:42pm

This is really depressing.

7 MARedneck  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:15:51pm

Palin is better than any of these 3.

8 Luigi  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:16:09pm

That would be funny if the media accidentally gets one of them elected president.

9 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:16:58pm
If this anti-scientific insanity continues, the Democrats will be in power for the next 20 years.

I can't agree. It will be at least 40 years. What we need is a Rational Party.

10 EmmmieG  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:17:08pm

Sanford sounds like someone gave him talking points which he did not understand.

11 godfrey  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:17:21pm

Change their minds.

12 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:17:24pm

I've found nothing about Cantor and creationism, and I've looked a lot.

Anyone?

13 LSD  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:17:35pm

Math & Science should be embraced and taught in public schools.

Ideology - Not.

14 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:17:35pm

re: #7 MARedneck

Palin is better than any of these 3.

I don't think so. Let's get a real candidate.

15 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:18:31pm

Is this going to be a party of rationalists? A party of limited government, individual rights, fiscal responsibility, and strong national defense? One that will honor our alliance with Israel? And keep the religion out of my politics and leave it at Church and Temple where it belongs?

If so, then I will give such a party my support. If not, then consider this "hostage" gone. I'm not suffering from Stockholm Syndrome.

16 guest77  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:18:48pm

Shouldn't Gov. Sarah Palin be in the top 3? Just asking. In any event, I believe she is a creationist also.

I agree that teaching fake science in schools is wrong also. But there are so many big, big problems in the world - like Islamic nukes held by Pakistan are Iran - it is something that I can't get excited about right now.

17 Phil.  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:19:04pm

Charles, I have no problem with you pointing to creationists who I think are rather silly myself (children living side by side with dinosaurs?)

But let's not forget that both parties distort science to their own ends. I don't know your stance on anthropogenic global warming, but the global temperature trends are down for the past several years now and it's not like there isn't precedent for the global warming environmentalists to be completely wrong about temperature creating global catastrophe (global cooling in the 70's anyone?)

I know you live in California where I'd gather if you expressed skepticism about global warming you'd be looked upon as some sort of Neanderthal but it's probably best not to forget that the so-called "flat earthers" were the ones who turned out to be right during the global cooling nonsense.

18 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:19:18pm

re: #13 LSD

Math & Science should be embraced and taught in public schools.

Ideology - Not.

I agree, as long as you concede that evolutionary theory is NOT ideology, but sound and solid empirical science.

19 winston06  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:19:50pm

If the Conservatives can't retake the WH in 2012, then there won't be an America left to discuss Creation Vs Evolution (my 2 cents as an evolutionist)

20 Teh Flowah  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:20:02pm

It's easy to see why the first is against evolution. He thinks it's a theory that says two mosquitoes get together and then the next step is a human being. The amount of ignorance in the party is amazing. Is this the best the GOP has? It's sad beyond words.

21 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:20:29pm
22 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:21:10pm

They try and make it sound like it's about science when it's all about religion.

23 devil in baggy pants  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:21:27pm
That’s why. This is wrong, and it’s one reason why the Democrats now control both houses of Congress. If this anti-scientific insanity continues, the Democrats will be in power for the next 20 years.


So your official statement on Election 2008 is that Obama won because there are creationists who govern three states?

Are you serious?

How about the fact that the GOP didn't run a candidate who didn't reflect true conservatism?

If we would have run a Duncan Hunter/Ronald Reagan republican, we would have won this thing in spades and it wouldn't have mattered a whit what 3 governors believe about evolution.

24 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:21:33pm
The idea of there being a, you know, a little mud hole and two mosquitoes get together and the next thing you know you have a human being* is completely at odds with, you know, one of the laws of thermodynamics which is the law of, of ... in essence, destruction.


Wow. I Checked his Wiki and he has an MBA. All of these guys sound like they never made it past 10th grade.

25 dentate  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:21:50pm

The Trilobite Party! 300 million years of incredibly successful adaptation to everything that came along, and if it had not been for that darned Permian extinction event they'd still be around today.

26 winston06  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:22:09pm

re: #23 devil in baggy pants

indeed.

27 Shug  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:22:14pm

The nomination of any of These three Creationists will create a second term for Obama

28 Cygnus  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:22:15pm

re: #20 Teh Flowah

It's easy to see why the first is against evolution. He thinks it's a theory that says two mosquitoes get together and then the next step is a human being. The amount of ignorance in the party is amazing. Is this the best the GOP has? It's sad beyond words.

Well, maybe two mosquitoes got together and created Democrats.

29 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:22:29pm

You notice Gov. Perry of Texas is not in the top three.

There's reasons for that, LOL.

30 winston06  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:23:01pm

re: #23 devil in baggy pants

Duncan Hunter in 2012...

31 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:23:01pm

re: #23 devil in baggy pants

So your official statement on Election 2008 is that Obama won because there are creationists who govern three states?

Are you serious?

How about the fact that the GOP didn't run a candidate who didn't reflect true conservatism?

If we would have run a Duncan Hunter/Ronald Reagan republican, we would have won this thing in spades and it wouldn't have mattered a whit what 3 governors believe about evolution.

Sure, you just keep denying it. See what happens.

And by the way:

So your official statement on Election 2008 is that Obama won because there are creationists who govern three states?

Try to read what I wrote: "it's ONE reason."

Sheesh.

32 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:23:11pm

Did Gov. Mark Sanford even graduate high school?

33 jaunte  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:23:41pm

re: #23 devil in baggy pants

Are you saying the vote was 52% to 48% because the conservatives stayed home? I don't think so.

34 MAredneck  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:23:56pm

re: #14 Walter L. Newton

OK, but then we should stay away from the Govs. I wish Robt Gates or Petraeus would give it a try.

35 Bloodnok  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:24:13pm

re: #23 devil in baggy pants

Duncan Hunter himself ran and went nowhere.

36 MJ  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:24:17pm

Sorry to go O.T.:

Amnesty urges arms embargo on Israel

The human rights group Amnesty International called on the United States to stop weapons sales to Israel and on all countries to impose an arms embargo on both Israel and the Palestinians....

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

37 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:24:35pm

Duncan Hunter is a creationist, by the way.

38 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:24:58pm

re: #26 winston06

No- it's not "indeed". Charles didn't say shit about 0bama- he said Congress. And devil in baggy pants completely misconstrued Charles' point. "Indeed" my ass!

And devil in baggy pants- sorry, but we lost control of the House and Senate because fiscal conservatives are FED UP! Damn republicans spending money like a bunch of fucking democrats! And WTF do you mean by "real conservative"? I don't even know what that means anymore!

39 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:25:03pm

re: #16 guest77

Shouldn't Gov. Sarah Palin be in the top 3? Just asking. In any event, I believe she is a creationist also.

I agree that teaching fake science in schools is wrong also. But there are so many big, big problems in the world - like Islamic nukes held by Pakistan are Iran - it is something that I can't get excited about right now.

Although she is personally a creationist, she has not, as Alaska's governor, endeavored to include indoctrination in creationist dogmas in Alaska's public high school system, like Jindal has. Rather, she has governed as a fiscally conservative political libertarian, not as a socon.

And having our ability to quickly and effectively respond to a future jihadi bioterror attack technologically hamstrung because our public high school bioscience education has been polluted with creationist dogma seems to me like something that we all should view with grave concern.

40 Shug  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:25:16pm

The Whigs are our only hope

41 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:25:20pm

re: #21 Sharmuta

Draft Governor Jon Huntsman.

Huntsman is also a self-proclaimed fan of the progressive rock genre and on July 30, 2007, attended a concert by progressive metal band Dream Theater.

I believe I can vote for Huntsman in 2012.

42 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:25:26pm

re: #23 devil in baggy pants

So your official statement on Election 2008 is that Obama won because there are creationists who govern three states?

Where does Charles say that?

43 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:25:38pm

re: #17 Phil.

But let's not forget that both parties distort science to their own ends.


That's not forgotten and it's discussed here frequently. It's bad form to excuse one's problems by pointing to the problems of others. It's not relevant to the issue at hand. If you want to discuss global warming, stem cells or genetically modified food then you're certainly free to do so but don't distract from the issue at hand.

44 devil in baggy pants  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:26:01pm

re: #35 Bloodnok

Duncan Hunter himself ran and went nowhere.

Yes, in part due to the fact that blogs like LGF and others kept saying that we needed to run a moderate like Rudy or McCain.

And look how stupendously far THAT got us.

45 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:26:03pm
46 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:26:04pm

re: #37 Charles

Duncan Hunter is a creationist, by the way.

But, would he allow that to be taught in public schools?

47 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:26:17pm

re: #23 devil in baggy pants

So your official statement on Election 2008 is that Obama won because there are creationists who govern three states?

Are you serious?

How about the fact that the GOP didn't run a candidate who didn't reflect true conservatism?

If we would have run a Duncan Hunter/Ronald Reagan republican, we would have won this thing in spades and it wouldn't have mattered a whit what 3 governors believe about evolution.

No jerk. But the conservatives LOST because of the preponderance of uneducated social issue conservatives who couldn't think there way out of a paper bag.

Did you read that answer from Gov. Mark Sanford? If that is an example of the great thinkers in the GOP, we're surely fucked, which I believe is a fact anyway.

48 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:26:20pm

re: #17 Phil.

Charles, I have no problem with you pointing to creationists who I think are rather silly myself (children living side by side with dinosaurs?)

But let's not forget that both parties distort science to their own ends. I don't know your stance on anthropogenic global warming, but the global temperature trends are down for the past several years now and it's not like there isn't precedent for the global warming environmentalists to be completely wrong about temperature creating global catastrophe (global cooling in the 70's anyone?)

I know you live in California where I'd gather if you expressed skepticism about global warming you'd be looked upon as some sort of Neanderthal but it's probably best not to forget that the so-called "flat earthers" were the ones who turned out to be right during the global cooling nonsense.

Trying to attack evolutionary theory by invoking global warming is like trying to attack Abraham Lincoln by invoking Ron Paul.

49 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:26:22pm

re: #32 Walter L. Newton

I had the same thought. He has an MBA.

50 David IV of Georgia  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:26:37pm

re: #22 HelloDare

They try and make it sound like it's about science when it's all about religion.

While I believe in a Creator (NOT the Star Trek kind), and that science and religion are not opposed but compatible, it is this confusion of science and religion that causes me to disapprove of Intelligent Design being taught as science. Also, there is the problem that some of the ID people are idiots and liars.

51 dentate  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:26:37pm

re: #32 Walter L. Newton

Did Gov. Mark Sanford even graduate high school?

The Creationism thing is not directly related to level of education. Jindal is a good example. My former department chair, an MD PhD from Ivy League schools, is a brilliant physician, but he is a Ben Stein-style ID guy. I have for decades been amazed at how one dimensional intelligent people can be, and how restricted their fund of knowledge outside their own narrow fields. Unfortunately, these limitations do not set limits on their shooting their mouths off.

52 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:26:43pm

re: #44 devil in baggy pants

Yes, in part due to the fact that blogs like LGF and others kept saying that we needed to run a moderate like Rudy or McCain.

And look how stupendously far THAT got us.

Now you're being a real idiot.

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

53 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:26:47pm

re: #44 devil in baggy pants

Rudy would have pulled in the middle voters we need to win elections.

54 snowcrash  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:26:49pm

Well you probably won't like Jim DeMint (R) S.C. either. From wikipedia :"DeMint believes openly gay individuals and single mothers should not teach in public schools.[5] He has been one of the strongest supporters of allowing school prayer"

55 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:27:43pm

Why is AP allowed to dictate who the top three governors are?

56 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:27:53pm

re: #44 devil in baggy pants

What is a "conservative" in your opinion?

57 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:27:54pm

re: #54 snowcrash

openly gay individuals and single mothers should not teach in public schools.


Ha!

58 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:28:31pm

re: #44 devil in baggy pants

Yes, in part due to the fact that blogs like LGF and others kept saying that we needed to run a moderate like Rudy or McCain.

And look how stupendously far THAT got us.

You're starting to piss me off, kid.

59 Summer  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:29:01pm

I think the Kool-Aid drinkers have already long ago taken over the party, and there isn't much right now that we can do about it.

It's not my house, I didn't build it, and if they want me to leave because of this...I won't mind moving out.

I will, however, stand and cheer as I watch it burn if I don't have a room there any longer.

60 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:29:14pm

re: #54 snowcrash

Well you probably won't like Jim DeMint (R) S.C. either. From wikipedia :"DeMint believes openly gay individuals and single mothers should not teach in public schools.[5] He has been one of the strongest supporters of allowing school prayer"

Jim DeMint is a fanatical nutjob.

61 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:29:16pm

re: #54 snowcrash

Well you probably won't like Jim DeMint (R) S.C. either. From wikipedia :"DeMint believes openly gay individuals and single mothers should not teach in public schools.[5] He has been one of the strongest supporters of allowing school prayer"

That's just insane.

62 Empire1  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:29:22pm

I nominate Zombie for President. The fact that he/she/it doesn't want the power is only a plus.

63 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:29:24pm

I wrote Michael Steele a week and a half ago asking what his and the republican party's position on creationism is. Haven't heard anything yet.

I get more feedback from Barbara Boxer and Nancy Pelosi. I at least get a form letter back.

The Republicans need somebody, just one person, anybody, to stand up and say something against creationism. If they don't it will be identified as the creationists party.

64 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:29:28pm

re: #51 dentate

The Creationism thing is not directly related to level of education. Jindal is a good example. My former department chair, an MD PhD from Ivy League schools, is a brilliant physician, but he is a Ben Stein-style ID guy. I have for decades been amazed at how one dimensional intelligent people can be, and how restricted their fund of knowledge outside their own narrow fields. Unfortunately, these limitations do not set limits on their shooting their mouths off.

I'm not even talking about the level or lack of knowledge. His little trite answer has all the class of a grammar school 4th grader trying to answer a the question.

I mean really, he can't even form a proper paragraph, or communicate in a coherent manner.

65 Ojoe  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:29:50pm

Bye bye GOP.

Time for a new center.

THere may be other possibilities, but check out the Modern Whig party:

Modern Whigs

There may be other possibilities too.

And here is a name for Zombie:

American Block Party

Woo Hoo !

66 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:30:19pm

re: #55 MandyManners

Why is AP allowed to dictate who the top three governors are?

because they can....I'm lost in the wilderness...Hunter and Sanford?...I need a drink

67 MAredneck  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:30:19pm

re: #49 Killgore Trout

Hilarious!

68 devil in baggy pants  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:30:19pm

re: #52 Charles


No, I'm not. You posted a letter from Duncan Hunter... fine. However, I was a reader during that time period and most Hunter supporters here were given the smack down and told that he didn't have a chance and that republicans needed to run someone "electable".

And I don't get why I'm being called an idiot and jerk because I don't agree with you.

69 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:30:24pm

re: #23 devil in baggy pants

So your official statement on Election 2008 is that Obama won because there are creationists who govern three states?

Are you serious?

How about the fact that the GOP didn't run a candidate who didn't reflect true conservatism?

If we would have run a Duncan Hunter/Ronald Reagan republican, we would have won this thing in spades and it wouldn't have mattered a whit what 3 governors believe about evolution.

Nope. John McCain was the best shot we had at winning. He came close, and had the economy not tanked and the party in power been blamed for it while he was still leading in the polls, I still believe he would have won. Had we run an activist socon, we would lost the moderates, the centrists, and the Reagan Democrats, and have been defeated so resoundingly that it would have made George McGovern's loss look close.

70 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:30:39pm

re: #53 Sharmuta

Rudy would have pulled in the middle voters we need to win elections.

Well, no he wouldn't. Not in a million years. You can't get any votes if the party is not behind ya.

71 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:31:00pm

re: #68 devil in baggy pants

I supported Duncan Hunter and Rudy, and no one called me that. You're full of shit.

72 dentate  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:31:10pm

re: #64 Walter L. Newton

I'm not even talking about the level or lack of knowledge. His little trite answer has all the class of a grammar school 4th grader trying to answer a the question.

I mean really, he can't even form a proper paragraph, or communicate in a coherent manner.

You are right. Of course, eloquence without content got us what we have in the White House now.

73 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:31:10pm

re: #65 Ojoe

Modern Whigs

Hair Club for Men & Women.

74 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:31:12pm

re: #68 devil in baggy pants

No, I'm not. You posted a letter from Duncan Hunter... fine. However, I was a reader during that time period and most Hunter supporters here were given the smack down and told that he didn't have a chance and that republicans needed to run someone "electable".

And I don't get why I'm being called an idiot and jerk because I don't agree with you.

Because you're spewing a bunch of angry crap, without bothering to read what I wrote.

And Duncan Hunter was NOT electable.

75 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:31:43pm
76 snowcrash  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:31:46pm

Hey, I don't like DeMint. I checked his bio out early last year to see if he was any good and I gacked.

77 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:31:49pm

re: #65 Ojoe

Bye bye GOP.

Time for a new center.

THere may be other possibilities, but check out the Modern Whig party:

Modern Whigs

There may be other possibilities too.

And here is a name for Zombie:

American Block Party

Woo Hoo !

tomarrow I'm a Whig...it's done...40 yrs down the fucking drain

78 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:32:05pm

re: #48 Salamantis

Trying to attack evolutionary theory by invoking global warming is like trying to attack Abraham Lincoln by invoking Ron Paul.

lol that's funny.

79 Boxy_brown  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:32:24pm

re: #65 Ojoe


THere may be other possibilities, but check out the Modern Whig party:


You probably posted that without the intention of being Ironic too.

80 Bloodnok  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:32:28pm

re: #44 devil in baggy pants

Horse. Shit.

Can you tell me why Independents would vote for a "Real" conservative (whatever that is)? Do you really think there are Independents and wavering Democrats that are thinking "Hmm, Social conservative AND Creationist?.....I'm switching over!"?

I just don't understand why some think that making the far right happy is a more useful play than winning over Dems and Independents. Would Reagan have won without "Reagan Democrats"? No. Did the Republican party do a good enough job of this in the last election? No. But that is not proof that they need to run a SoCon Creationist in the next election.

81 MAredneck  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:32:32pm

re: #70 Walter L. Newton

Rudy would have pulled in the middle voters we need to win elections.

Well, no he wouldn't. Not in a million years. You can't get any votes if the party is not behind ya.

Rudy also ran a poor campaign. Hate to say it. I sure like the guy and he's better than McCain.

82 Shug  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:32:37pm

re: #77 albusteve

tomarrow I'm a Whig...it's done...40 yrs down the fucking drain

You sound like a Detroit Lions Fan.

83 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:32:44pm

re: #75 buzzsawmonkey

He didn't pull 'em in in his bonehead effort to skip the early primaries and stake his entire pile of chips on one turn of the wheel.

Pissed me off beyond belief.

84 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:32:57pm

re: #75 buzzsawmonkey

He ran a shitty campaign. I don't deny it. But I did talk to moderates and liberals who liked him and would have voted for him in the general election.

85 Thor-Zone  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:33:06pm

In the post Charles said:

If this anti-scientific insanity continues, the Democrats will be in power for the next 20 years.

If this is the case...we'll all be broke. In the first month of the Obama Administration, they have already spent in the neighborhood of a TRILLION dollars. We just can't afford these guys.

86 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:33:16pm

re: #45 Sharmuta

He opposed ID in the classrooms

Yes he did. Smart guy. I don't know much about him so I will look further into it. He did win in Utah with 77% of the vote so he's popular there. With some luck maybe he can step it up to the national stage. That and he proclaimed a Utah "Dream Theater Day". How cool is that?

87 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:33:27pm

re: #44 devil in baggy pants

Yes, in part due to the fact that blogs like LGF and others kept saying that we needed to run a moderate like Rudy or McCain.

And look how stupendously far THAT got us.

It got us a narrow 54-46 loss, and we would have won had the economy tanked when it did. At the time it tanked, Mccain was leading in the polls.

88 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:33:47pm

re: #82 Shug

You sound like a Detroit Lions Fan.

I grew up in Kzoo...I know all about futility bro

89 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:33:47pm

re: #71 Sharmuta

I supported Duncan Hunter and Rudy, and no one called me that. You're full of shit.

Hunter was my first choice. He lasted about what, five minutes? I hope CA keeps electing him to the House as long as he does good work, but I think his shot was fired.

90 legalpad  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:33:52pm

Between creationism and their insistence on duplicating Democrat "immigration" policy we're doomed anyway.

It's coming here, and No politician, Republican or Democrat is going to stop it.

91 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:33:53pm
92 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:34:27pm

I suspect Rudy Giuliani's heart wasn't in the campaign because he got the word early on that the GOP wasn't going to stand for him as the nominee.

1) Not a creationist.

2) Not hardcore anti-abortion.

3) Not hardcore pro-gun rights.

4) Divorced.

5) Not in the pocket of the religious right.

6) Not a Washington insider. (Probably most important.)

93 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:34:30pm

re: #74 Charles

Because you're spewing a bunch of angry crap, without bothering to read what I wrote.

And Duncan Hunter was NOT electable.

Which he proved in spades, IMO.

94 Summer  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:34:46pm

re: #23 devil in baggy pants

So your official statement on Election 2008 is that Obama won because there are creationists who govern three states?

Are you serious?

How about the fact that the GOP didn't run a candidate who didn't reflect true conservatism?

If we would have run a Duncan Hunter/Ronald Reagan republican, we would have won this thing in spades and it wouldn't have mattered a whit what 3 governors believe about evolution.

Yes, naturally what the GOP really needed was less votes than they got which, somehow, would have translated into a bigger win!

Given the fact that most of the country is centrist, and Conservatives are a small minority of the entire population of the United States (albeit as vocal as you!), this makes absolute sense...if you don't let silly stuff like math get in the way.

Then again, who on the Conservative side ever listens to the scientific method these days?

95 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:34:49pm

re: #83 MandyManners

Pissed me off beyond belief.

Ergo, there for, he is not a viable candidate. And I would never consider him again.

96 Scion9  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:35:18pm

re: #13 LSD

Math & Science should be embraced and taught in public schools.

Ideology - Not.

The only reason for the government to own and operate a school system is to teach ideology. I find it likely that is the real reasoning behinds its inception. They certainly are not and have never been Aristotelian centers that promote free thought.

In fact I'd say that there is a concerted effort to teach as little as possible that is of any actual use in either an academic or work force setting, while still doing a lot of indoctrinating. The fact that some kids happen to walk away from the whole thing knowing how to do long division and read is probably either coincidental or accidental.

That Creationists see it as a ripe ground for their own brand of indoctrinating children isn't really surprising. That no one wants to actually teach children, that has any political clout, is kind of surprising though.

97 Phil.  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:35:18pm

re: #43 Killgore Trout

That's not forgotten and it's discussed here frequently. It's bad form to excuse one's problems by pointing to the problems of others. It's not relevant to the issue at hand. If you want to discuss global warming, stem cells or genetically modified food then you're certainly free to do so but don't distract from the issue at hand.

Kilgore,

I'm definitely in the anti-creationist camp along with Charles so please don't misconstrue what I'm saying. Creationism is just not an issue that is among my 1st,2nd,3rd,10th,or 30th issue among my "Top Issues" List.

If you haven't noticed, we're in the middle of a huge recession and some people seemed to be most concerned with "redistributing the wealth". I'd like a really strong intellectual conservative movement (I have a PhD myself) but Intelligent Design doesn't really work me into a rage either way. But again, I'm firmly in the anti-Creationist camp if that makes you feel better.

98 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:35:23pm

re: #91 buzzsawmonkey

OK- but that's what they told me before the primary elections happened- they liked Rudy. I believe he has a broad appeal. Too bad he blew it with a crappy campaign.

99 Silvergirl  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:35:33pm

re: #41 rightwinger3

I believe I can vote for Huntsman in 2012.

Yet another Mormon. Odd that we were speaking of them in yesterday's Beck thread. I mentioned that Beck, Romney, even Harry Reid are all Mormons. I was for Mitt Romney, so I can easily vote for a Mormon, but I seriously wonder about a large enough percentage of the rest of the country. So many were worried that we as a nation were too racist (which now, apparently, also means too "cowardly") to vote for a black president. How much courage do we have to vote Mormon?

100 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:35:44pm

Please somebody tell me that Mitt Romney is not a creationist. Not that I love Mitt. But he can't be. Can he?

101 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:35:55pm

re: #54 snowcrash

Well you probably won't like Jim DeMint (R) S.C. either. From wikipedia :"DeMint believes openly gay individuals and single mothers should not teach in public schools.[5] He has been one of the strongest supporters of allowing school prayer"

He wouldn't get MY vote for prez.

102 RobCon[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:36:04pm
103 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:36:19pm

re: #92 Charles

I suspect Rudy Giuliani's heart wasn't in the campaign because he got the word early on that the GOP wasn't going to stand for him as the nominee.

1) Not a creationist.

2) Not hardcore anti-abortion.

3). Divorced.

4) Not in the pocket of the religious right.

5) Not a Washington insider.

rudy looks so good right now compared to this spineless idiot we have.

104 devil in baggy pants  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:36:22pm

re: #74 Charles

Because you're spewing a bunch of angry crap, without bothering to read what I wrote.

And Duncan Hunter was NOT electable.


I'm not spewing, I'm not angry. I simply can't believe that you're linking 3 creationist governors to the GOP losses in November. Creationism isn't even on most people's grid when they go in to vote.

105 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:36:26pm

re: #84 Sharmuta

He ran a shitty campaign. I don't deny it. But I did talk to moderates and liberals who liked him and would have voted for him in the general election.

Would have, could have, may have, did, didn't, don't matter. He's not a viable candidate. Next.

106 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:36:30pm

re: #84 Sharmuta

He ran a shitty campaign. I don't deny it. But I did talk to moderates and liberals who liked him and would have voted for him in the general election.

Speaking as a liberal myself, I don't dislike him, but realistically speaking, he was never going to get the nomination.

And speaking as a big-city gal, the moment at the convention where he began babbling about small-town values was one for the ages.

107 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:36:37pm

re: #102 RobCon

Go back to pamela's.

108 MAredneck  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:36:37pm

re: #92 Charles

It was clear he'd lose the base and he did.

109 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:36:50pm

so where do conservatives go from here...I feel like I've been slapped up for stupid...my money is meaningless and my vote worth even less...where's the fucking beef?

110 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:36:52pm

re: #102 RobCon

WTF?

111 Iron Fist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:36:56pm

re: #53 Sharmuta

There's no real evidence of that. And, again, Rudy did not run for President. He simply let it be known that he'd take the nomination if it were offered. When they didn't coronate him in Floridia, he dropped out of the race.

This is simply fact. Would he have won it if he had actually run? I don't know. There was a lot of momentum against the Republican candidate no matter who he or she was. Rudy might have pulled in some more votes from so-called "moderates" if he'd been the nominee, but it is also incontrovertable that he would have lost votes from the Right if he'd been the nominee. I think that they mostly would have been a wash. I would have voted for him, but I'd have voted for the President of the Hell's Angels if he'd been running against the Obamessiah.

112 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:36:59pm

re: #86 rightwinger3

Yes he did. Smart guy. I don't know much about him so I will look further into it. He did win in Utah with 77% of the vote so he's popular there. With some luck maybe he can step it up to the national stage. That and he proclaimed a Utah "Dream Theater Day". How cool is that?

What is a Dream Theater Day?

113 Gus 802  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:37:24pm

Considering that John McCain was maligned early on the campaign trail by the fringe elements of the Republican party and that he went so far the final outcome and election results were better than expected. Not only were they better than expected but they no doubt reflected a far better outcome had any of the other candidates early on.

Furthermore, it's rather naive to think that any other choice would have amounted to victory when you consider the popularity of Barack Obama during the campaign -- one that continues to this day. It is also naive to think that Americans (who tend to flip between Republicans or Democrats) would have chosen a Republican in light of George W. Bush's and the Republican parties negative polling numbers to date.

114 Boxy_brown  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:37:45pm

If people of common sense and triple digit IQ's are going to have a say in our government it is not going to be through a third party. We need to reform the Republicans, not reinvent the wheel.

Not Letting the perfect be the enemy of the non-disastrous and calling everyone who disagrees with you a RINO would be a great start at reform.

115 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:37:58pm

re: #59 Summer

I think the Kool-Aid drinkers have already long ago taken over the party, and there isn't much right now that we can do about it.

It's not my house, I didn't build it, and if they want me to leave because of this...I won't mind moving out.

I will, however, stand and cheer as I watch it burn if I don't have a room there any longer.

The Religious Right: I drink your conservative Republican milkshake! I drink it up!

116 Shug[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:38:01pm
117 MAredneck  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:38:04pm

re: #103 nyc redneck

Jeez, down to that, any of the creationists up there would be preferable.

118 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:38:08pm

re: #99 Silvergirl

Yet another Mormon. Odd that we were speaking of them in yesterday's Beck thread. I mentioned that Beck, Romney, even Harry Reid are all Mormons. I was for Mitt Romney, so I can easily vote for a Mormon, but I seriously wonder about a large enough percentage of the rest of the country. So many were worried that we as a nation were too racist (which now, apparently, also means too "cowardly") to vote for a black president. How much courage do we have to vote Mormon?

It will not be part of my considerations for a candidate. I liked Mitt to a degree (not my first choice, but neither was McCain), and I would have supported him wholeheartedly. Now that the economy is in a wish-fulfillment mode for Socialists, I would love to have someone with Mitt's knowledge and experience involved in the solution.

119 Bloodnok  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:38:16pm

re: #102 RobCon

Shouldn't you be in a storm cellar somewhere?

120 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:38:24pm

re: #63 HelloDare

I wrote Michael Steele a week and a half ago asking what his and the republican party's position on creationism is. Haven't heard anything yet.

I get more feedback from Barbara Boxer and Nancy Pelosi. I at least get a form letter back.

The Republicans need somebody, just one person, anybody, to stand up and say something against creationism. If they don't it will be identified as the creationists party.

The GOP platform for 2008 hints at "Academic Freedom"


We oppose the hiring, firing, tenure, and promotion practices at universities that discriminate on the basis of political or ideological belief. When federal taxes are used to support such practices, it is inexcusable. We affirm the right of students and faculty to express their views in the face of the leftist dogmatism that dominates many institutions. To preserve the integrity and independence of the nation’s colleges, we will continue to ensure alternatives to ideological accrediting systems.


There's also a bunch of crap about prayer in schools, and replacing sex ed with abstinence training.

121 Shug  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:38:31pm

shouldn't have quoted that

122 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:38:34pm

re: #104 devil in baggy pants

I'm not spewing, I'm not angry. I simply can't believe that you're linking 3 creationist governors to the GOP losses in November. Creationism isn't even on most people's grid when they go in to vote.

And if you don't think Sarah Palin's support for creationism was an issue in the campaign, you must have been asleep.

123 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:39:18pm

re: #111 Iron Fist

There's no real evidence of that. And, again, Rudy did not run for President. He simply let it be known that he'd take the nomination if it were offered. When they didn't coronate him in Floridia, he dropped out of the race.

This is simply fact. Would he have won it if he had actually run? I don't know. There was a lot of momentum against the Republican candidate no matter who he or she was. Rudy might have pulled in some more votes from so-called "moderates" if he'd been the nominee, but it is also incontrovertable that he would have lost votes from the Right if he'd been the nominee. I think that they mostly would have been a wash. I would have voted for him, but I'd have voted for the President of the Hell's Angels if he'd been running against the Obamessiah.

nobody with any brains (Rudy) wanted to get plastered buy the donks...he didnt run, you are correct...friggin McCain the Rino stood up and took the fall...what a fucking mess

124 USA  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:39:24pm

This was a non-issue in 2008 election.

125 pink freud  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:39:48pm

re: #105 Walter L. Newton

Would have, could have, may have, did, didn't, don't matter. He's not a viable candidate. Next.

Same goes for Palin.

126 Shug  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:39:50pm

cleanup aisle 116.

sorry. should have known that would get zonked and not quoted it

127 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:39:55pm

re: #68 devil in baggy pants

No, I'm not. You posted a letter from Duncan Hunter... fine. However, I was a reader during that time period and most Hunter supporters here were given the smack down and told that he didn't have a chance and that republicans needed to run someone "electable".

And I don't get why I'm being called an idiot and jerk because I don't agree with you.

Hunter's poll numbers never made it into the double digits, and he dropped out early.

128 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:40:09pm

Wow. Four hate mails already! The creationists are all stirred up out there.

129 David IV of Georgia  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:40:13pm

re: #85 Thor-Zone

In the post Charles said:

If this is the case...we'll all be broke. In the first month of the Obama Administration, they have already spent in the neighborhood of a TRILLION dollars. We just can't afford these guys.

A friend of mine with family in China is thinking of moving there:

They didn't bother with bailouts (except to finance ours).

Due to the worldwide financial problems, they have eliminated capital gains taxes and property taxes and have halved most other taxes for both citizens and businesses.

130 Boxy_brown  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:40:18pm

re: #122 Charles

And if you don't think Sarah Palin's support for creationism was an issue in the campaign, you must have been asleep.


You are going against the whole "Sarah Palin victim/martyr" theme...

131 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:40:19pm

re: #124 USA

This was a non-issue in 2008 election.

Bullshit it was. Have you been even reading anything that Charles has posted, or is this just your opinion?

132 venomx  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:40:29pm

Just wondering...have DEM govs(or senators/congressmen) been asked the same question?Whats their position?Im sure in very liberal states its easy for them to dismiss all this,but what about those in states with larger "religious"populations?Just wondering.

133 devil in baggy pants  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:40:29pm

re: #122 Charles

And if you don't think Sarah Palin's support for creationism was an issue in the campaign, you must have been asleep.


Now wait a minute... didn't you even post that you respected her for not pushing that in schools? Anyone with any intellectual honesty who knew her position knew that she wasn't pulling a Jindal.

134 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:40:31pm

re: #124 USA

How's GCP these days?

135 winston06  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:40:55pm

Is Pres Bush a creationist or an evolutionist? What was his view on this before running for Pres in 2000?

136 LynnfromNZ  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:40:59pm

I'd put Palin above Pawlenty. And the commenter her is correct -- she might personally believe in creationism but she doesn't push it. And there ain't no way the President enforces creationsim nationwide, so who cares what they think about it?

137 Summer  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:41:07pm

re: #124 USA

This was a non-issue in 2008 election.

Really? I recall it being a big joke about Palin.

Maybe you need to get out more?

138 Iron Fist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:41:08pm

re: #85 Thor-Zone

We'll also be living under some modified form of sharia if the Democrats control everything for the next twenty years. Obama has spent the first month of his administration trying to appease the Mohammedans, and the Democrats are right there behind him.

139 USA  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:41:20pm

re: #131 Walter L. Newton

Both. Sorry, this was not why Obama won.

140 Gus 802  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:41:23pm

LC HOGHEAD Down-Dinging and not commenting.

141 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:41:25pm

re: #129 David IV of Georgia

A friend of mine with family in China is thinking of moving there:

They didn't bother with bailouts (except to finance ours).

Due to the worldwide financial problems, they have eliminated capital gains taxes and property taxes and have halved most other taxes for both citizens and businesses.

They have also had a wave of factory closures and riot suppressions.

142 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:41:38pm
143 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:41:41pm

re: #133 devil in baggy pants

Now wait a minute... didn't you even post that you respected her for not pushing that in schools? Anyone with any intellectual honesty who knew her position knew that she wasn't pulling a Jindal.

What does that have to do with what I wrote?

144 Silvergirl  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:41:48pm

re: #75 buzzsawmonkey

He didn't pull 'em in in his bonehead effort to skip the early primaries and stake his entire pile of chips on one turn of the wheel.

What WAS that about, anyway? I couldn't and can't figure it out. Did he change his mind midstream like a groom with sudden cold feet? Did he not want to win? Was he avoiding having his personal life dragged into that relentless spotlight? He HAD to be smarter than that--relying on Florida alone.

145 EmmmieG  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:41:50pm

So...that's two Republican Mormon Governors who, despite having great financial credentials, can't ever be elected because they believe in the Book of Mormon?

To be honest, I knew this.

146 cornerback  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:41:53pm

Let me get this straight. People believe that a few scratches on the ocean floor must be Atlantis because its way too complex of a pattern to be 'natural', ( [Link: www.thesun.co.uk...] ) but all of us, infinitely more complex were able to 'evolve'.

Sorry that just doesn't wash.

147 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:42:05pm

Now I know why I'm registered as an independent, or as they call it in CA Decline to State.

148 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:42:10pm

re: #80 Bloodnok

A lot of Republicans were willing to hold their nose and vote for McCain. I really think that Palin lost more Republican votes than McCain did.

149 Thor-Zone  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:42:10pm

re: #39 Salamantis

....Rather, she has governed as a fiscally conservative political libertarian, not as a socon.

Actually not so much. Since Sarah Palin became our Governor, the cost of our state government has balloned up to over 7 billion from about 3.5 billion under Murkowski, and she jacked up taxes 400%. That is not what I calll fiscal responsibility.

150 Pvt Bin Jammin  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:42:18pm

re: #134 Sharmuta

LOL

151 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:42:25pm

Here they come.

152 devil in baggy pants  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:42:42pm

re: #143 Charles

What does that have to do with what I wrote?


From what I could tell, her view wasn't an issue. She didn't push it in schools, so who cares?

153 Summer  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:42:50pm

re: #135 winston06

Is Pres Bush a creationist or an evolutionist? What was his view on this before running for Pres in 2000?

Just before leaving office, President Bush said that he doesn't take the bible literally, and that he accepts Evolution. Didn't seem to taint his religion any.

Of course, the base was up in arms about what he said.

154 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:42:57pm

Melt-downs before No. 275?

155 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:43:03pm

re: #112 Walter L. Newton

What is a Dream Theater Day?

Walter, he likes "progressive metal". He went to see Dream Theater in concert and proclaimed the day "Dream Theater Day" in commemoration.

156 jones  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:43:04pm

I think creationism is silly.

However, I would rather have any of these three set up an Office of Leviathan Awareness than have crooked dems plunder and oppress.


There has never been a perfect candidate (I would dislike many of my own stances), but Creationism is down on my list of poison pills.

157 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:43:06pm

re: #128 Charles

Wow. Four hate mails already! The creationists are all stirred up out there.

And they should be, because reading what Gov. Mark Sanford is a clear indication of the mentality level of a lot of the dishonest creationist (I'm talking DI sorts).

Gov. Mark Sanford is evidently trying real hard to parrot (sorry Maisey) some standard DI tripe, and he's doing a sloppy job of it.

He shows them for what they are, and that drives them crazy, especially since he claims to be "one of them."

158 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:43:20pm

re: #152 devil in baggy pants

From what I could tell, her view wasn't an issue. She didn't push it in schools, so who cares?

Now I know you were asleep.

It was mentioned in almost every news article about her! Hello?

159 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:43:25pm

OK Charles -

I will state my opinion again. Belief in a Creator G-d and Evolution are NOT mutually exclusive. A creator G-d can be thought of as being "the uncaused cause" - the spark, if you will that set it all in motion. We as mere humans can only guess at rationale, and are probably wasting time doing so. A G-d who/ which can create can also allow creation to evolve which is my belief of what happened. In the early 1900's we had the Scopes Trial, at a time when "Creationism" was the only allowed curriculum, at least in Tennessee. Today we are, I hope about 100 years wiser. Evolution as a "Theory" has been for all intents and purposes been vindicated by the fossil record. Let us be wiser and allow that "Creationism" is an alternative view, and just that - without persecution, prosecution, OR PROOF in Science as we understand it. For what it is worth, as far as a One Zone Bus Ticket can get you, I believe I am echoing the thoughts of the late Prof. Albert Einstein of Princeton University.

-S-

160 pegcity  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:43:45pm

You Americans on LGF need to start a Lizard party, and only people with common sense need apply

161 Bloodnok  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:43:52pm

re: #133 devil in baggy pants

There's a big difference between people like us being content that that she's not pushing creationist bills and an Independent who refuses to vote R because they heard she believes in creation (or are told an outright lie that she's pushing for creation to be taught in schools).

162 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:43:53pm

re: #139 USA

Both. Sorry, this was not why Obama won.

This was why we lost though.

163 winston06  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:43:57pm

re: #153 Summer

I saw that but I wondered what he thought about this in 2000

164 Summer  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:44:16pm

re: #146 cornerback

A Creationist loon using Atlantean loons to justify his lunatic explanation does not a proof make.

165 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:44:32pm

re: #152 devil in baggy pants

I'm still waiting for your definition of a "real conservative".

166 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:44:33pm

re: #153 Summer

Just before leaving office, President Bush said that he doesn't take the bible literally, and that he accepts Evolution. Didn't seem to taint his religion any.

Of course, the base was up in arms about what he said.

And here I thought I was part of the base. I must be on one of the kook fringes.

//

167 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:44:39pm

re: #136 LynnfromNZ

I'd put Palin above Pawlenty. And the commenter her is correct -- she might personally believe in creationism but she doesn't push it. And there ain't no way the President enforces creationsim nationwide, so who cares what they think about it?

Because she appeared to be uneducated, poorly informed, and not too bright. Those are not good leadership qualities.

168 Dave the.....  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:44:46pm

I live in Minnesota and I don't believe T-Paw has ever talked creation as part of any policy. He's more likely to appease neo-pagen nature worshippers.

169 winston06  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:44:58pm

How can I email a Lizard member here?

170 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:45:14pm
171 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:45:16pm

re: #145 EmmmieG

So...that's two Republican Mormon Governors who, despite having great financial credentials, can't ever be elected because they believe in the Book of Mormon?

To be honest, I knew this.

Don't know. I assumed at one point that Romney was unstoppable--but being a Mormon seems like a much bigger political liability than I understood.

172 dentate  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:45:17pm

re: #146 cornerback

Let me get this straight. People believe that a few scratches on the ocean floor must be Atlantis because its way too complex of a pattern to be 'natural', ( [Link: www.thesun.co.uk...] ) but all of us, infinitely more complex were able to 'evolve'.

Sorry that just doesn't wash.

What "people" are you talking about? No sane person believes that scratches on the abyssal plain of the Atlantic are Atlantis. And you are typifying the ID argument which always boils down to, "I personally don't understand how it could have occurred, therefore it couldn't have occurred."

173 jaunte  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:45:24pm

re: #167 Killgore Trout

The Africa thing killed it for me.

174 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:45:25pm

re: #40 Shug

The Whigs are our only hope

Shug -

Perhaps all'y'all are the Wisest Owl of the Bunch.

-S-

175 Shug  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:45:31pm

re: #146 cornerback

silly boy. everybody knows Atlantis is in the Bahamas and not at the bottom of the ocean

176 winston06  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:45:39pm

re: #167 Killgore Trout

Partly true but thats what media painted her like.

177 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:45:44pm

re: #168 Dave the.....

I live in Minnesota and I don't believe T-Paw has ever talked creation as part of any policy.

It's in the state party platform, Dave.

178 Boxy_brown  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:45:59pm

re: #170 buzzsawmonkey


Not good enough. We need a majority.

--Adlai Stevenson, slightly misquoted

Another concept that gets lost in the shuffle.

179 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:46:15pm

re: #104 devil in baggy pants

I'm not spewing, I'm not angry. I simply can't believe that you're linking 3 creationist governors to the GOP losses in November. Creationism isn't even on most people's grid when they go in to vote.

No, and creationists make it a point to be stealthy about it (except to their RR voters). Right up until the moment that the law passes allowing religious indoctrination of your kids in public high school science class.

180 Sheepdogess  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:46:25pm
Mark Sanford, Tim Pawlenty, and Bobby Jindal.

All creationists.

Barack Obama, Joseph Biden, Nancy Pelosi?

Pick your poison.

181 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:46:32pm
182 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:46:33pm

re: #170 buzzsawmonkey

Not good enough. We need a majority.

--Adlai Stevenson, slightly misquoted

buzzsawmonkey -

The correct term is "paraphrased."

-S-

183 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:46:34pm

re: #143 Charles

What does that have to do with what I wrote?

It's the t-shirt thread all over again, Charles.

184 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:46:39pm

re: #169 winston06

How can I email a Lizard member here?

Send me an email and I'll tell you!

185 Dave the.....  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:46:45pm
Because she appeared to be uneducated, poorly informed, and not too bright. Those are not good leadership qualities.

A lot of that impression is due to regional dialiects. Just like a lot of people think any one with a southern accent is a dumbfuck.

186 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:46:59pm

re: #148 Killgore Trout

A lot of Republicans were willing to hold their nose and vote for McCain. I really think that Palin lost more Republican votes than McCain did.

Prob'ly lost several long-time Democratic voters I know of as well.

187 Gus 802  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:46:59pm

I would give Pawlenty points over Sanford going by the comments above. Even though I don't agree with Pawlenty on this issue. Sanford on the other hand makes a complete fool of himself.

188 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:47:14pm

re: #173 jaunte

Unfortunately the story got muddied by some idiot falsely claiming to be the source of the leak. He ended up being a fraud so most people think the story was a hoax.

189 Shug  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:47:15pm

re: #180 Sheepdogess

Barack Obama, Joseph Biden, Nancy Pelosi?

Pick your poison.

why must we nominate poison?

190 dentate  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:47:38pm

re: #183 rightwinger3

It's the t-shirt thread all over again, Charles.

My "very gradual change we can believe in" t-shirt shipped yesterday! If only they had bumper stickers....

191 DataDan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:47:39pm

A god who invented every species, one by one, and must continue to develop on them as the environment changes due to plate tectonics, periodic ice ages, and the occasional meteor strike would seem to have made a lot of work for him/her/itself.

But a god who invented fundamental particles and forces and the fabric of space such that matter would congeal into stars, which would fuse its components to form 100 different chemical elements, which would, under the right conditions, combine into self-replicating molecules, which would build structures (which we call "organisms") to spread those molecules in competition and cooperation with other structures--all without any further intervention on his part--now that would be a pretty amazing feat.

Call it the "lazy man's god".

192 bluetick3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:47:45pm

Maybe a creationist would be certain to lose in 2012, but personally I'd take an otherwise right-thinking creationist who sticks to the Constitution over a crypto-marxist pathological liar.

I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the Constitution that requires or allows the federal government to force creationism down the country's throat. I think it's silly for these Governor;s to cling to this creationist nonsense (and pretend to do so in the name of science). At least they presumably aren't clinging to beliefs that nonbelievers of their respective religions should be exploded.

I am dubious that any candidate would be perfect, but all the umbrage over creationism seems overblown to me, when examined in the context of the Constitution as the supreme law of the land. I also don't get the umbrage against the "religious right" (Christians). They've never done anything to me.

Maybe I am missing something?

193 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:47:51pm
194 Thor-Zone  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:47:51pm

re: #109 albusteve

so where do conservatives go from here...I feel like I've been slapped up for stupid...my money is meaningless and my vote worth even less...where's the fucking beef?

No more beef....only government cheese

195 pink freud  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:48:00pm

Blue your nic, Winston. Check the box "show email" where you post a comment.

196 MAredneck  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:48:12pm

re: #152 devil in baggy pants

Everything about Palin was turned into an issue. She was spot on when it came to religion. A believer that doesn't foist anything on anyone with her office. Charles says it was an issue. But every nonissue was turned into one this time around.

197 EmmmieG  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:48:13pm

re: #171 SanFranciscoZionist

Don't know. I assumed at one point that Romney was unstoppable--but being a Mormon seems like a much bigger political liability than I understood.

There are people who travel around to certain congregations putting on seminars and talks about why we are so evil/deluded/going to hell. I've actually known several LDS gals who joined the church even after having sat through those.

198 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:48:14pm

re: #167 Killgore Trout

Because she appeared to be uneducated, poorly informed, and not too bright. Those are not good leadership qualities.

I would say that why she appealed to so many conservatives.

199 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:48:27pm

re: #177 Sharmuta

It's in the state party platform, Dave.


I'm sorry, Dave ...

/////

200 winston06  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:48:34pm

re: #195 pink freud

thanks

201 David IV of Georgia  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:48:41pm

re: #141 OldLineTexan

They have also had a wave of factory closures and riot suppressions.

Yeah—he did mention that it wasn't perfect in China. But then I was for letting the Detroit automakers close which would have caused some riots too.

202 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:48:50pm

re: #181 buzzsawmonkey

No, I don't know if there was any indication of it in the exit polls either. I just have so much personal experience with Republican voters (or Republican leaners) who jumped ship because of Palin.

203 Iron Fist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:49:05pm

re: #156 jones

It is, at best, not an issue in the Bible Belt. That's why you don't see the Democrats running a more openly hostile to religion campaign. Look at how hard Obama went to assure the voters that he was a Christian. Now imagine what the coverage would have been like if, say, Sarah Palin had done the same. Is Obama's faith "better" because he went to an openly racist and anti-American church?

Apparently, the answer to the Question is "yes".

204 jaunte  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:49:12pm

re: #188 Killgore Trout

Unfortunately the story got muddied by some idiot falsely claiming to be the source of the leak. He ended up being a fraud so most people think the story was a hoax.

Great. More mud.

205 Summer  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:49:23pm

re: #192 bluetick3

You are missing something.

It is unconstitutional to teach Creationism in the classroom.

That's the part you're missing.

206 cowbellallen  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:49:34pm

Kinda early to be talking about the next presidential election....

207 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:49:48pm

re: #191 DataDan

A god who invented every species, one by one, and must continue to develop on them as the environment changes due to plate tectonics, periodic ice ages, and the occasional meteor strike would seem to have made a lot of work for him/her/itself.

But a god who invented fundamental particles and forces and the fabric of space such that matter would congeal into stars, which would fuse its components to form 100 different chemical elements, which would, under the right conditions, combine into self-replicating molecules, which would build structures (which we call "organisms") to spread those molecules in competition and cooperation with other structures--all without any further intervention on his part--now that would be a pretty amazing feat.

Call it the "lazy man's god".

Or call it science. That works for me.

208 cornerback  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:49:48pm

re: #164 Summer


re: #172 dentate

All I am pointing out is that those who believe in evolution will never think rationally of the complete absurdity of their theory. It will make perfect sense that chicken scratches on an ocean floor can't be random, but the peptide chain can be.

209 pink freud  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:50:04pm

re: #195 pink freud

Sorry, misread. Meant to say 'ask them in-thread to blue their nick'.

210 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:50:15pm
211 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:50:30pm

re: #202 Killgore Trout

No, I don't know if there was any indication of it in the exit polls either. I just have so much personal experience with Republican voters (or Republican leaners) who jumped ship because of Palin.

John McCain had a chance to pull in the moderates and fence-sitters. I didn't like him much, but that part of having him as the nominee made sense.

He picked Sarah Palin, clearly, to get the Christian far right on board. It backfired.

212 devil in baggy pants  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:50:31pm

re: #165 Sharmuta

I'm still waiting for your definition of a "real conservative".


Sorry, I lost track of your post... didn't mean to dodge the question.

Real conservative, in my opinion:

1) smaller (national) government
2) strong national defense/military
3) belief in the individual to accomplish
4) free market economy/supply side economics
5) Constitutional purist-- no monkeying around with it
5a) strong supporter of 2nd Amendment rights especially

Those are my top 5.

213 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:50:47pm

re: #208 cornerback

re: #172 dentate

All I am pointing out is that those who believe in evolution will never think rationally of the complete absurdity of their theory. It will make perfect sense that chicken scratches on an ocean floor can't be random, but the peptide chain can be.

Huh?

214 Bloodnok  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:50:56pm

re: #206 cowbellallen

Kinda early to be talking about the next presidential election....

Possibly. But it's not too early to debate what the future of the party should be.

215 Summer  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:51:24pm

re: #208 cornerback

re: #172 dentate

All I am pointing out is that those who believe in evolution will never think rationally of the complete absurdity of their theory. It will make perfect sense that chicken scratches on an ocean floor can't be random, but the peptide chain can be.

Once again: Lunatic explanations shouldn't be used to try to justify other lunatic explanations.

You might as well be trying to justify people who believe in Crystal Healing as well with that line of thought.

216 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:51:37pm

I'm done with the GOP...I'm Whiggin out for new turf...a long family legacy of Ike and Goldwater and G Romney, and I carried the torch with Reagan and the Bushes and this is what the party has come to...I am no longer interested from here on out...I have spoken

217 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:51:41pm

re: #206 cowbellallen

Then go some place else. Start your own blog. Go to a gym. Take country and western dance lessons. But leave.

218 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:51:42pm

re: #198 Walter L. Newton

I think that's true. George Bush had an Ivy League education (Yale or Harvard) but he adopted a simple dumb guy persona which appealed to conservatives. I read somewhere that he didn't even have a Texas accent until he started in politics. I'm not sure if that's true or not but it would surprise me.

219 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:51:52pm

re: #136 LynnfromNZ

I'd put Palin above Pawlenty. And the commenter her is correct -- she might personally believe in creationism but she doesn't push it. And there ain't no way the President enforces creationsim nationwide, so who cares what they think about it?

Like there's no way a Governor can shoehorn it into public schools statewide?

220 abolitionist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:51:57pm

re: #62 Empire1

I nominate Zombie for President. The fact that he/she/it doesn't want the power is only a plus.

The anonymity thing could be more of a problem with the vetting process than it was for Obama. Or maybe not.

221 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:52:07pm

re: #180 Sheepdogess

Barack Obama, Joseph Biden, Nancy Pelosi?

Pick your poison.

dogess -

1. dogess is nicer than the other word.

2. If Sanford, Pawlenty and Jindal are "Creationists" who do NOT force their beliefs on others, what are we to think of the THREE LIBERTINES who do?

-S-

222 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:52:25pm
223 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:52:25pm

re: #197 EmmmieG

There are people who travel around to certain congregations putting on seminars and talks about why we are so evil/deluded/going to hell. I've actually known several LDS gals who joined the church even after having sat through those.

I have to say that from a total outsider's perspective, Mormons look to me like evangelical Christians with really clean living and extra prophets, so it's hard for me to entirely grasp...

224 bluetick3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:52:46pm

re: #205 Summer

You are missing something.

It is unconstitutional to teach Creationism in the classroom.

That's the part you're missing.

That was exactly the point of what I wrote.

225 Thor-Zone  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:52:52pm

re: #129 David IV of Georgia

A friend of mine with family in China is thinking of moving there:

They didn't bother with bailouts (except to finance ours).

Due to the worldwide financial problems, they have eliminated capital gains taxes and property taxes and have halved most other taxes for both citizens and businesses.

This is a strange world we live in. The commies have figured out how to minimize the financial crisis in their country. Meanwhile our government does everything in their power to make it worse.

226 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:52:56pm

re: #193 buzzsawmonkey

Close enough for government work.

buzzsawmonkey -

Got me there!

-S-

227 winston06  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:52:58pm

re: #195 pink freud

sorry I may sound like an idiot about this but would you plz explain it to me again? LoL
Cant figure it out :-"

228 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:53:12pm

Dayum! The trolls are going all out tonight!

229 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:53:12pm

re: #212 devil in baggy pants

Sorry, I lost track of your post... didn't mean to dodge the question.

Real conservative, in my opinion:

1) smaller (national) government
2) strong national defense/military
3) belief in the individual to accomplish
4) free market economy/supply side economics
5) Constitutional purist-- no monkeying around with it
5a) strong supporter of 2nd Amendment rights especially

Those are my top 5.

So- what part of this equates with pushing religion into public school science classrooms? Looks to me from your list that there is no room in our party for those who want to undermine the First Amendment.

230 Silvergirl  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:53:50pm

re: #211 Charles

John McCain had a chance to pull in the moderates and fence-sitters. I didn't like him much, but that part of having him as the nominee made sense.

He picked Sarah Palin, clearly, to get the Christian far right on board. It backfired.

I've wondered about that more than once. For awhile I was also convinced that he chose her to get the Hillary Clinton vote, and women vote in general. I wanted to take him at his word that he was looking for a maverick like himself. At this point, and still a Palin fan, I fell I can only put my support for any 2012 candidate on the back burner and maintain a wait and see attitude.

231 winston06  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:53:56pm

re: #216 albusteve

so you re surrendering?

232 Iron Fist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:54:13pm

re: #202 Killgore Trout

I know blacks who voted against Obama. That doesn't mean that lots of blacks voted against Obama. You have to be careful when you are trying to apply localized experiences to the nation as a whole. Remember that Reporter who said she (I believe it was a "she") didn't know anybody who'd voted for Reagan, so how could he have really won? Same kind of thing.

233 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:54:17pm

re: #216 albusteve

I'm done with the GOP...I'm Whiggin out for new turf...a long family legacy of Ike and Goldwater and G Romney, and I carried the torch with Reagan and the Bushes and this is what the party has come to...I am no longer interested from here on out...I have spoken

steve, hang on...I'm going with you, let me get my jacket...

234 LynnfromNZ  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:54:42pm

re: #167 Killgore Trout

There are things the President can do something about, and things the President can't do anything about. Forget what candidates say about things they can't do anything about as President, and focus on what they say about things they might have some ability to enact as President.

Lots of times candidates simply throw red meat out to galvanize the base -- abortion! Same-sex unions! Creationism! End the Iraq War! -- but all it is, in the end, is bluster designed to confuse the simple-minded who never stop to think "Wait a second, the President doesn't have any control over that issue..."

I'd rather have a president who thinks every American should become a Wiccan who promises to lower my taxes and get government out of the business of business than a president disinterested in personal religious beliefs who thinks we need more government in our lives, because a President can do something about taxes and the size of government, but can't do a thing about my religious practices.

235 Summer  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:54:48pm

re: #224 bluetick3

That was exactly the point of what I wrote.

...

I am dubious that any candidate would be perfect, but all the umbrage over creationism seems overblown to me

I don't think it is "overblown".

236 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:54:52pm

re: #206 cowbellallen

Kinda early to be talking about the next presidential election....

c.b.allen -

"Bet'cha" that President Obama was thinking about it by Christmas 2004.

-S-

237 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:55:01pm
238 godfrey  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:55:02pm

Who were the swing voters, and was creationism a significant factor in their vote?

239 dentate  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:55:10pm

re: #208 cornerback

re: #172 dentate

All I am pointing out is that those who believe in evolution will never think rationally of the complete absurdity of their theory. It will make perfect sense that chicken scratches on an ocean floor can't be random, but the peptide chain can be.

Oh boy. I know one should never argue with a fool. But if you understand physics, tectonics, materials science, and geology, OR ANYTHING ELSE ABOUT SCIENCE, you would understand that there are myriad scientific explanations that do not require that the scratches be random just because they were not man-made. Just like the protein sequence, it can be NON RANDOM as the result of NATURAL FORCES that can be observed, measured, modeled and that have predictive value. You absolutely typify the ignorance, no, the stupidity of the argument that if you can't understand the process yourself, it can't be true.

240 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:55:20pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

I think that's true. George Bush had an Ivy League education (Yale or Harvard) but he adopted a simple dumb guy persona which appealed to conservatives. I read somewhere that he didn't even have a Texas accent until he started in politics. I'm not sure if that's true or not but it would surprise me.

You might be surprised. I can speak without my accent, especially after college. Bush's family is not particularly Texan or hick.

/BFG on the "hick", BTW. I watched one "hick" NASA head with a THICK Georgia accent and a PhD lead a roomful of engineers into a feeling of superiority and then demolish every point made in three hours, one by one, from memory. He is still my Patton of NASA, LOL.

241 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:55:42pm

re: #146 cornerback

Let me get this straight. People believe that a few scratches on the ocean floor must be Atlantis because its way too complex of a pattern to be 'natural', ( [Link: www.thesun.co.uk...] ) but all of us, infinitely more complex were able to 'evolve'.

Sorry that just doesn't wash.

The irreduceable complexity canard has been refuted here and refuted here again and again ad nauseum ad infinitum until the cows have come home and laid down and died, and sequoias have sprouted and towered from the rotted compost of their deliquescent carcasses. Search LGF for Ken Miller.

242 Racer X  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:55:45pm

re: #211 Charles

John McCain had a chance to pull in the moderates and fence-sitters. I didn't like him much, but that part of having him as the nominee made sense.

He picked Sarah Palin, clearly, to get the Christian far right on board. It backfired.

I disagree with you there. McCain was going nowhere until he picked Palin. He would have lost by a far worse margin had he picked another moderate Republican. IMO

243 winston06  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:55:45pm

test

244 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:56:03pm

re: #218 Killgore Trout

I think that's true. George Bush had an Ivy League education (Yale or Harvard) but he adopted a simple dumb guy persona which appealed to conservatives. I read somewhere that he didn't even have a Texas accent until he started in politics. I'm not sure if that's true or not but it would surprise me.

Of course it's true. So many people were drooling over Palin JUST BECAUSE of that "countryfied" slop she put on. Well, what in the hell does that tell you about the electorate.

Why did Hillary shift dialects faster than a con man on the run as she pandered to the folks in different parts of the country.

Because a lot of folk out there don't have the smarts to understand the implications of all this.

The world so loves a boob.

245 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:56:18pm

re: #223 SanFranciscoZionist

I have to say that from a total outsider's perspective, Mormons look to me like evangelical Christians with really clean living and extra prophets, so it's hard for me to entirely grasp...

Yeah, you're a tad bit off. But politically, I think you're close enough.

246 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:56:24pm

Future Republican nominees who can't grasp the difference between scientific fact and pseudo-science and who debase the basic American concept of separation of church and state is bad. What's worse is a generation of lost students in the fields of science, whose minds have been muddled by faulty/no-value curricula being allowed into the public education system by ignorant politicians.

247 Iron Fist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:56:46pm

re: #237 buzzsawmonkey

Thanks. I knew the general point, but didn't remember all of the specifics.

248 Summer  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:56:48pm

re: #241 Salamantis

The irreduceable complexity canard has been refuted here and refuted here again and again ad nauseum ad infinitum until the cows have come home and laid down and died, and sequoias have sprouted and towered from the rotted compost of their deliquescent carcasses. Search LGF for Ken Miller.

Yes, but Creationists have difficulty reading. =)

249 USA  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:56:52pm

re: #137 Summer

Really? I recall it being a big joke about Palin.

Maybe you need to get out more?

That is the sort of personal attack the democrats have turned into an art. Recall, there were a lot of "jokes" about Palin. I don't believe this one tipped the balance in the election. But I won't attack you personally or suggest you need to "get out more" for thinking so.

250 Steve_NO[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:57:05pm
251 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:57:37pm

It's simple- real conservatives don't push their religion down other people's throats! These creationists and those who want to make excuses for them better back the fuck off, because I will not have them teaching any child of mine that they're going to hell if they don't read Genesis literally. How dare they! If that's what you think "conservatism" means, you are whacked out.

You can have your religion, but don't you dare infringe on my right to have mine.

252 bluetick3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:57:57pm

re: #235 Summer

I don't think it is "overblown".

You may not. I disagree. But it's obvious you didn't accurately read my initial comment, where I made it quite clear about the Constitution and creationism. comment #224 is in essence making the same point that I made.

253 devil in baggy pants  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:58:05pm

re: #229 Sharmuta

So- what part of this equates with pushing religion into public school science classrooms? Looks to me from your list that there is no room in our party for those who want to undermine the First Amendment.


I think it's a states' rights issue, myself. Let each state figure it out.

254 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:58:05pm

re: #231 winston06

so you re surrendering?

to who?...for what?....the GOP can kiss my ass...you can have them all you want...I've never surrendered to anybody

255 Bloodnok  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:58:07pm

re: #250 Steve_NO

Let me help you with your hat and coat...

256 Maximu§  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:58:08pm

If I may, Louisiana has a Christian majority and their Man is Bobby Jindal. He speaks for them, not us and who the hell are we on the left-coast to question what their business is? A few words from the Good Book never hurt anyone and by the looks of these kids I see now-a-days, they could use it.

257 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:58:23pm

re: #250 Steve_NO

Bye bye.

258 snowcrash  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:58:31pm

I think Palins problem was more the anti-abortion stance. She walked the walk and had Trig. Unthinkable for many women. Her young unwed daughter had the baby too. This isn't lip service about being pro-life. Put many women voters off. Independents and Republicans. Abortion is a toxic political issue and she brought it to the forefront of the discussion. Too bad.

259 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:58:33pm

re: #156 jones

I think creationism is silly.

However, I would rather have any of these three set up an Office of Leviathan Awareness than have crooked dems plunder and oppress.

There has never been a perfect candidate (I would dislike many of my own stances), but Creationism is down on my list of poison pills.

They don't pass my finger-on-the-button test. I don't want someone who can't even understand basic scientific theory deciding when or whether to deploy one of the most fearsome weapons that scientific minds have produced.

260 godfrey  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:58:40pm

re: #237 buzzsawmonkey

The film critic? She was a good read, from what I've read.

261 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:58:57pm
262 Summer  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:59:08pm

re: #249 USA

That is the sort of personal attack the democrats have turned into an art. Recall, there were a lot of "jokes" about Palin. I don't believe this one tipped the balance in the election. But I won't attack you personally or suggest you need to "get out more" for thinking so.

Are you kidding? It was a national joke that Palin was a Creationist.

263 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:59:09pm

re: #243 winston06

test

In the text entry box above the comment box, put you email address and click the box "show email."

264 bluetick3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:59:27pm

re: #252 bluetick3

You may not. I disagree. But it's obvious you didn't accurately read my initial comment, where I made it quite clear about the Constitution and creationism. comment #224 is in essence making the same point that I made.

make that # 234

265 David IV of Georgia  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:59:29pm

re: 225 Thor-Zone

re: #129 David IV of Georgia

A friend of mine with family in China is thinking of moving there:

They didn't bother with bailouts (except to finance ours).

Due to the worldwide financial problems, they have eliminated capital gains taxes and property taxes and have halved most other taxes for both citizens and businesses.


This is a strange world we live in. The commies have figured out how to minimize the financial crisis in their country. Meanwhile our government does everything in their power to make it worse.

We thought it sounded like the Cold War interplay between the US and the USSR where we bankrupted them—except in this scenario, China is bankrupting us.

266 sillyquiet  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:59:41pm

I think Charles's point about Palin is that any Republican candidate, in the political reality of now, must be ironclad and clawproof against attacks of the 'religious test' variety, in order to keep and capture the fairly substantial socially-liberal yet otherwise 'conservative' middle spectrum of voters in this country. Creationism and other non-scientific claptrap is a taint that, besides being indicative of a lack of critical thinking skills or a serious intellectual disingenuousness, turns those voter (like me) completely OFF.

267 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 5:59:48pm
268 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:00:09pm

And remove any WEB site info

269 Iron Fist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:00:14pm

re: #251 Sharmuta

In response, I'd say that after my experiences with public education in this country that it would be a cold day in Hell before I'd let any child of mine attend public school. I wouldn't have my nieces and nephew in it, but that's not a choice I can make.

270 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:00:40pm

re: #159 Dr. Shalit

OK Charles -

I will state my opinion again. Belief in a Creator G-d and Evolution are NOT mutually exclusive. A creator G-d can be thought of as being "the uncaused cause" - the spark, if you will that set it all in motion. We as mere humans can only guess at rationale, and are probably wasting time doing so. A G-d who/ which can create can also allow creation to evolve which is my belief of what happened. In the early 1900's we had the Scopes Trial, at a time when "Creationism" was the only allowed curriculum, at least in Tennessee. Today we are, I hope about 100 years wiser. Evolution as a "Theory" has been for all intents and purposes been vindicated by the fossil record. Let us be wiser and allow that "Creationism" is an alternative view, and just that - without persecution, prosecution, OR PROOF in Science as we understand it. For what it is worth, as far as a One Zone Bus Ticket can get you, I believe I am echoing the thoughts of the late Prof. Albert Einstein of Princeton University.

-S-

But without supporting empirical evidence, it cannot be considered to be science, and as such, it does not belong in public high school science class, as Judge John Jones so correctly and wisely ruled.

271 jones  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:00:43pm

re: #250 Steve_NO

It is Charles' site.

272 Bloodnok  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:00:44pm

re: #266 sillyquiet

I think Charles's point about Palin is that any Republican candidate, in the political reality of now, must be ironclad and clawproof against attacks of the 'religious test' variety, in order to keep and capture the fairly substantial socially-liberal yet otherwise 'conservative' middle spectrum of voters in this country. Creationism and other non-scientific claptrap is a taint that, besides being indicative of a lack of critical thinking skills or a serious intellectual disingenuousness, turns those voter (like me) completely OFF.

Good post.

273 Summer  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:01:12pm

re: #252 bluetick3

You may not. I disagree. But it's obvious you didn't accurately read my initial comment, where I made it quite clear about the Constitution and creationism. comment #224 is in essence making the same point that I made.

No, I disagree. You basically excused it as not such a big deal. It is a big deal. But if you wanna keep insisting that Charles and everyone else shouldn't make such a "fuss" about it...it's your account - not mine. =)

274 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:01:25pm

re: #253 devil in baggy pants

I think it's a states' rights issue, myself. Let each state figure it out.

1) The states are beholden to uphold the Constitution, and 2) Creationism was ruled unconstitutional in 1987.

275 devil in baggy pants  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:01:30pm

re: #251 Sharmuta

It's simple- real conservatives don't push their religion down other people's throats! These creationists and those who want to make excuses for them better back the fuck off, because I will not have them teaching any child of mine that they're going to hell if they don't read Genesis literally. How dare they! If that's what you think "conservatism" means, you are whacked out.

You can have your religion, but don't you dare infringe on my right to have mine.


Please show me where I said or inferred that.

276 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:01:57pm

re: #269 Iron Fist

In response, I'd say that after my experiences with public education in this country that it would be a cold day in Hell before I'd let any child of mine attend public school. I wouldn't have my nieces and nephew in it, but that's not a choice I can make.

Public schools are run locally and the variations are extreme. We researched the district we live in and I am very pleased so far. My children that have made the effort made the grades and LEARNED. In the other case, not so much!

277 USA  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:02:04pm

re: #262 Summer

Are you kidding? It was a national joke that Palin was a Creationist.

No, I am not kidding. Please point me to a national poll that shows a causal connection between her view on this issue and the Republicans' defeat.

278 Racer X  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:02:12pm

A Republican with strong connections to a racist preacher, a tax cheat, and a domestic terrorist wouldn't even get a second sniff.

Yet here we are.

279 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:02:15pm

re: #243 winston06

test

You have to have you email in the email box, the "show email" box clicked and NOTHING in the URL web site text box.

That will set up you name with a special link to Charles' safe email procedure, in which a Lizard can email you.

280 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:02:25pm

re: #124 USA

This was a non-issue in 2008 election.

Shouldn't you be at GCP? Never mind, I'll make it easy for you.

281 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:02:35pm

re: #250 Steve_NO

This is apparently the disease of our time. Complete nutjobs quote freedom of X to spout nonsense, about science, religion, morality, economics, whatever.

The true dharma is not defeated by the false dharma, but is burried.
/there is some eastern cliche more or less like that

282 Nemesis6  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:02:40pm

Toot-toot. All aboard the Republican fail-train! :)

283 jones  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:02:41pm

re: #259 Salamantis

Versus Obama?

284 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:02:42pm

re: #172 dentate

What "people" are you talking about? No sane person believes that scratches on the abyssal plain of the Atlantic are Atlantis. And you are typifying the ID argument which always boils down to, "I personally don't understand how it could have occurred, therefore it couldn't have occurred."

Yep. Argument from a combination of ignorance and incredulity. Sadly classic.

285 Boxy_brown  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:03:24pm

re: #256 Maximu§


If I may, Louisiana has a Christian majority and their Man is Bobby Jindal.


That's the thing, he is elected not inspite of creationism but partially because of it.

Charles, you aren't just frustrated with political stupidity but with stupidity itself. You are bound to be frustrated because humans can be aggravating, self defeating idiots. (Not me of course. ;-)

286 Iron Fist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:03:48pm

re: #258 snowcrash

I'll agree with you. Now tell me, what does that really mean? How can it be a "choice" if there is only one acceptible choice? I always go back to it, because it is such a relative point, but why are the restrictions on a teenager getting a tattoo more stringent (including having to get a parent to sign off on it) than those for a teenager to have an abortion?

What does that say about us as a country?

287 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:03:56pm

BTW, aren't the lines in the Atlantic from mapping programs, rather than physically on the ocean floor? Or did I totally misread that article?

288 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:04:09pm

re: #275 devil in baggy pants

Please show me where I said or inferred that.

What makes you think that comment was directed at you? It's not all about you, you know.

289 burntjohn  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:04:13pm

This is what happens when you let the biblethumpers take over the party.

290 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:04:26pm

re: #287 SanFranciscoZionist

BTW, aren't the lines in the Atlantic from mapping programs, rather than physically on the ocean floor? Or did I totally misread that article?

Yep. It was the paths of the boats used to map the bottom of the ocean.

291 Fat Jolly Penguin  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:04:34pm

re: #280 Charles

Shouldn't you be at GCP? Never mind, I'll make it easy for you.

What is GCP?

292 pink freud  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:04:36pm

re: #227 winston06

Sorry Winston, I just saw this. Do a post in-thread, here. Ask the member you want to contact to blue their nick for you. (Make sure they're here at that time.) Once you see it blue, click on it and follow the prompts to contact them.

293 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:04:37pm

re: #287 SanFranciscoZionist

BTW, aren't the lines in the Atlantic from mapping programs, rather than physically on the ocean floor? Or did I totally misread that article?

You didn't miss anything. That's how stunningly ignorant the comment was.

294 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:04:46pm
295 EmmmieG  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:04:49pm

re: #223 SanFranciscoZionist

Things are better than they used to be. When my father was young, there were still people who believed we have horns.

(There's actually a story for this, but it's long.)

296 Shug  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:05:06pm

what is GCP ?

297 MJ  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:05:26pm

Well, obviously much will depend on issues such as the economy and the war on terror as to who is electable in 2012.
In 1980, Ronald Reagan ran as someone who was sympathetic to creationism:

"In reference to the theory of evolution Reagan declared, "I have a great many questions about it. It is a theory, it is a scientific theory only. And in recent years it has been challenged in the world of science and is not believed in the scientific community to be as infallible as it once was. I think that recent discoveries down through the years have pointed up great flaws in it." He then added that if the theory of evolution is to be taught in public schools, so should the Biblical version of the origin of human life."

[Link: ncseweb.org...]

However, that stand did cost Reagan in the polls, at least according Lou Cannon though it's not clear if that or other mis-steps were the reason for the slip in the polls:

[Link: books.google.com...]

298 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:05:28pm

re: #269 Iron Fist

In response, I'd say that after my experiences with public education in this country that it would be a cold day in Hell before I'd let any child of mine attend public school. I wouldn't have my nieces and nephew in it, but that's not a choice I can make.

I wouldn't send any child of mine to a public school either. That's not the point though. The kids who do get sent to public schools have the right to not be indoctrinated against their parents' and their rights.

299 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:05:28pm

I'm sick to death of this idoltarian, media driven political environment where principle is for sale and my vote is scoffed...patriotism and citizenship are all I know...these assholes that want to fuck around with the Constitution are my sworn enemies...the feds and the media are my enemies...lunatics are at the helm and I aint goin down with the ship...I'll fight it out here locally in NM...it's all I can do...if some 'party' wants me then they will court my vote...

300 Gus 802  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:05:30pm

Uh oh. Any validity to Geert Wilders showing up at CPAC?

301 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:06:12pm

re: #296 Shug

what is GCP ?

gulf coast pundit. Blog of infamous banned LGFers who hate Charles.

302 Killian Bundy  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:06:40pm

re: #274 Sharmuta

1) The states are beholden to uphold the Constitution

/you might want to read the 10th Amendment and it's history

303 bluetick3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:06:47pm

re: #273 Summer

No, I disagree. You basically excused it as not such a big deal. It is a big deal. But if you wanna keep insisting that Charles and everyone else shouldn't make such a "fuss" about it...it's your account - not mine. =)

I never said anyone shouldn't make a fuss about it. I simply said I do not understand the fuss.

304 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:07:16pm

Note to Michael Steele - perhaps we can get Karel Gott a birth certificate before 2012..

305 Fat Jolly Penguin  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:07:17pm

re: #301 Sharmuta

gulf coast pundit. Blog of infamous banned LGFers who hate Charles.

Another stalker blog?! FFS.

306 devil in baggy pants  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:07:30pm

re: #288 Sharmuta

What makes you think that comment was directed at you? It's not all about you, you know.


My apologies. You had asked me about what I think "real conservative" is and it seemed like your post was referencing my answer to you.

Sorry for the misread.

307 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:08:02pm

re: #295 EmmmieG

Things are better than they used to be. When my father was young, there were still people who believed we have horns.

(There's actually a story for this, but it's long.)

Good grief.

308 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:08:31pm

re: #306 devil in baggy pants

It was directed at those who seem to think a "real conservative" is a Christian fundamentalist and nothing more.

309 LynnfromNZ  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:08:48pm

re: #244 Walter L. Newton

I personally like them, yes.

310 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:09:02pm

re: #303 bluetick3

I never said anyone shouldn't make a fuss about it. I simply said I do not understand the fuss.

Fuss.

The GOP is loosing votes because they insist on supporting social conservative issues like teaching creationism in science class, as one example.

What is hard about understand the fuss?

311 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:09:05pm

re: #300 Gus 802

Uh oh. Any validity to Geert Wilders showing up at CPAC?

Sure, why not have a book-banner at CPAC? They're already hosting Mike Huckabee, Pat Buchanan, Ann Coulter, and Ron Paul.

The more the merrier.

312 cowbellallen  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:09:25pm

re: #217 Walter L. Newton

Then go some place else. Start your own blog. Go to a gym. Take country and western dance lessons. But leave.

I actually have a blog on blogspot, heh. Better yet, I have a 14-piece Nautilus set in my garage, so I have no need to go to a gym and run on a treadmill. :)

I just thought it was kind of early to talk about it considering the current POTUS has been in office for less than a month. But if you want to, that's fine and I'll certainly be entertained by it.

I personally care more about fiscal responsibility, less government, national security, and liberty than I do about creationism. I think all of these are more important. I did vote for McCain, unfortunately, but thats only because he picked Sarah Palin, and it didn't have anything to do with her religion.

Would have preferred it if Fred Thompson got the nomination, kinda think he's gonna be a bit old for that in a few years, though. I think Palin is going to have some trouble getting past the primaries.

313 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:09:27pm

re: #242 Racer X

I disagree with you there. McCain was going nowhere until he picked Palin. He would have lost by a far worse margin had he picked another moderate Republican. IMO

RacerX -

IMHO - No Kidding. Follow the polling. From just after Labor Day until about September 16, McCain was ahead or within statistical variation. His actions during the debate about "Bailout 1" were probably his undoing. Gov. Palin was a net PLUS to "rank and file" Republican/Conservative voters. The Bailout/Meltdown", at least in my mind, happened "Very Conveniently" thereafter.

-S-

314 Killian Bundy  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:09:38pm

re: #289 burntjohn

This is what happens when you let the biblethumpers take over the party.

/all 60 million of them, run for your lives!

315 Shug  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:09:46pm

re: #301 Sharmuta

gulf coast pundit. Blog of infamous banned LGFers who hate Charles.


wow. I went and looked at the member list. It's like a who's who of mental illness

316 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:09:58pm

re: #309 LynnfromNZ

I personally like them, yes.

Palin, Hillary or boobs?

317 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:10:01pm

re: #256 Maximu§

If I may, Louisiana has a Christian majority and their Man is Bobby Jindal. He speaks for them, not us and who the hell are we on the left-coast to question what their business is? A few words from the Good Book never hurt anyone and by the looks of these kids I see now-a-days, they could use it.

You're for violating the Constitution?

318 Gus 802  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:10:18pm

re: #311 Charles

Sure, why not have a book-banner at CPAC? They're already hosting Mike Huckabee, Pat Buchanan, Ann Coulter, and Ron Paul.

The more the merrier.

Right. Amazing. Now we sit and wait to see who'll open their big mouth during the conference. Coulter is a sure bet.

319 lostlakehiker  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:10:28pm

And right on schedule, the refutation appears. another missing link: omnivore dino Can't make this stuff up.

320 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:11:11pm

re: #192 bluetick3

Maybe a creationist would be certain to lose in 2012, but personally I'd take an otherwise right-thinking creationist who sticks to the Constitution over a crypto-marxist pathological liar.

No, he simply worships a God who must have systematically lied in the Book of Nature in order for his belief to be true. And pushing that dogmatic conception into public high school science class is most defi9nitely not sticking to the Constitution.

I'm pretty sure there's nothing in the Constitution that requires or allows the federal government to force creationism down the country's throat. I think it's silly for these Governor;s to cling to this creationist nonsense (and pretend to do so in the name of science). At least they presumably aren't clinging to beliefs that nonbelievers of their respective religions should be exploded.

No, they're just unconstitutionally arrogating to themselves the illegitimate prerogative to indoctrinate other peoples' kids in sectarian religious dogmas in public high school science classes - including kids whose own religious faiths are contradicted by it.

I am dubious that any candidate would be perfect, but all the umbrage over creationism seems overblown to me, when examined in the context of the Constitution as the supreme law of the land. I also don't get the umbrage against the "religious right" (Christians). They've never done anything to me.

Give them a chance, though, and they'll do it to your kids. And they're busting a gut trying to seize the capacity to do precisely that. Which is why our concerns are not overblown at all.

Maybe I am missing something?

I'd say you're missing a lot.

321 Desert Dog  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:11:13pm

re: #316 Walter L. Newton

Palin, Hillary or boobs?

One vote for boobs here

322 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:11:14pm

re: #318 Gus 802

Right. Amazing. Now we sit and wait to see who'll open their big mouth during the conference. Coulter is a sure bet.

It IS in her job description, after all.

Luap Nor, OTOH, is a nut for practically free.

323 bluetick3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:11:34pm

re: #273 Summer

No, I disagree. You basically excused it as not such a big deal. It is a big deal. But if you wanna keep insisting that Charles and everyone else shouldn't make such a "fuss" about it...it's your account - not mine. =)

Moreover, I suggested I'd take my chances with an otherwise right-thinking Creationist over a crypto-marxist pathological liar. That does not mean I condone Creationism, or believe it's Constitutional, or support any of these Creationist as a primary candidate. But feel free to keep making up stuff and attributuing it erroneously to me.

324 sphincter  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:11:38pm

re: #275 devil in baggy pants

1/504th? Delta here. Oohrah

325 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:12:00pm

re: #315 Shug

wow. I went and looked at the member list. It's like a who's who of mental illness

Their logo is a straightjacket.

326 cronus  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:12:15pm

re: #266 sillyquiet

I think Charles's point about Palin is that any Republican candidate, in the political reality of now, must be ironclad and clawproof against attacks of the 'religious test' variety, in order to keep and capture the fairly substantial socially-liberal yet otherwise 'conservative' middle spectrum of voters in this country. Creationism and other non-scientific claptrap is a taint that, besides being indicative of a lack of critical thinking skills or a serious intellectual disingenuousness, turns those voter (like me) completely OFF.

Well put. Bottom-line is that if any one of these guys does take the presidential leap they'll have to pretty quickly rectify their position or they'll be dogged by this (at least by reporters if not voters). 2012 is not 2000. The Republican anti-science meme (deserved or overblown) is too well established within the MSM. But all three of these guys will have created a completely needless news cycle around this and both their current stated position as well as their inevitable "clarification" later on will be very helpful to Democrats who will use both to create the caricature they want of the Republican nominee.

327 LynnfromNZ  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:12:15pm

re: #316 Walter L. Newton

Numbers one and three. Not necessarily in that order or combination.

328 Gus 802  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:12:15pm

re: #322 OldLineTexan

It IS in her job description, after all.

Luap Nor, OTOH, is a nut for practically free.

Lupa Nor? lol Took me a minute. I know.

329 taxfreekiller[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:12:33pm
330 Racer X  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:12:38pm

I belong to no political party. I vote the way I want, on things that make sense to me personally. I detest the whole concept of "toe the party line".

331 Obsidiandog  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:12:40pm

It looks like the Republican Party had better prepare for a long time in the wilderness if this is the best they can field.This is downright embarrassing and very depressing.

332 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:12:44pm

re: #315 Shug

wow. I went and looked at the member list. It's like a who's who of mental illness

You ain't just whistlin' Dixie.

333 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:12:55pm

re: #312 cowbellallen

I actually have a blog on blogspot, heh. Better yet, I have a 14-piece Nautilus set in my garage, so I have no need to go to a gym and run on a treadmill. :)

I just thought it was kind of early to talk about it considering the current POTUS has been in office for less than a month. But if you want to, that's fine and I'll certainly be entertained by it.

I personally care more about fiscal responsibility, less government, national security, and liberty than I do about creationism. I think all of these are more important. I did vote for McCain, unfortunately, but thats only because he picked Sarah Palin, and it didn't have anything to do with her religion.

Would have preferred it if Fred Thompson got the nomination, kinda think he's gonna be a bit old for that in a few years, though. I think Palin is going to have some trouble getting past the primaries.

Guess what? Even you say above has nothing to do with your original comment and my answer to you.

This is Charles' blog. He can post ANY subject that he wants to post. You are an invited guest.

You don't come in here and ask why he does what he wants to do with his house.

Charles' will block your account if you keep harping on what he wants as topics on HIS blog.

Got that?

334 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:12:57pm

re: #244 Walter L. Newton

The world so loves a boob.


Indeed.

335 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:13:12pm

re: #328 Gus 802

Lupa Nor? lol Took me a minute. I know.

Luap Nor is a joke I picked up here. I like it. ;)

336 Silvergirl  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:13:28pm

re: #244 Walter L. Newton

Of course it's true. So many people were drooling over Palin JUST BECAUSE of that "countryfied" slop she put on. Well, what in the hell does that tell you about the electorate.

Why did Hillary shift dialects faster than a con man on the run as she pandered to the folks in different parts of the country.

Because a lot of folk out there don't have the smarts to understand the implications of all this.

The world so loves a boob.

I read the bio on Sarah Palin before she came on the scene. I followed the draft palin for vp blog, so had a feeling she was going to burst on the scene and surprise everyone. From what I knew, and what I believe, Palin doesn't put on slop. She is who she is, and her speech patterns aren't put on. I do agree that Hillary shifted dialects and threw back shots, and even as Obama put it, was acting like Annie Oakley.

337 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:13:28pm

re: #328 Gus 802

Lupa Nor? lol Took me a minute. I know.

I think they're afraid to say his name three times looking in a mirror.

338 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:14:42pm

re: #337 SanFranciscoZionist

I think they're afraid to say his name three times looking in a mirror.

I won't do that with "Biggie Smalls" either, as I consider South Park a more accurate source of information than the MSM.

339 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:14:50pm

re: #312 cowbellallen

I actually have a blog on blogspot, heh. Better yet, I have a 14-piece Nautilus set in my garage, so I have no need to go to a gym and run on a treadmill. :)

I just thought it was kind of early to talk about it considering the current POTUS has been in office for less than a month. But if you want to, that's fine and I'll certainly be entertained by it.

I personally care more about fiscal responsibility, less government, national security, and liberty than I do about creationism. I think all of these are more important. I did vote for McCain, unfortunately, but thats only because he picked Sarah Palin, and it didn't have anything to do with her religion.

Would have preferred it if Fred Thompson got the nomination, kinda think he's gonna be a bit old for that in a few years, though. I think Palin is going to have some trouble getting past the primaries.

all of that blather has been posted here a thousand times...so Creationism is not that important to you?...how do you reconcile defending the Constitution then?...are you connecting the dots?...blah blah...Creationism IS about liberty....

340 Gus 802  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:14:50pm

re: #337 SanFranciscoZionist

I think they're afraid to say his name three times looking in a mirror.

Then throw salt over their shoulders. Used to be something like that.

341 pink freud  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:15:04pm

re: #321 Desert Dog

How'd you and your son fare in the pinewood derby?

342 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:15:21pm

re: #302 Killian Bundy

/you might want to read the 10th Amendment and it's history

The tenth amendment doesn't give states the right to usurp the constitutional rights of anyone.

And I ask that you please not comment to me again. Thank you.

343 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:15:37pm

re: #208 cornerback

re: #172 dentate

All I am pointing out is that those who believe in evolution will never think rationally of the complete absurdity of their theory. It will make perfect sense that chicken scratches on an ocean floor can't be random, but the peptide chain can be.

Another creationist canard: the false assertion that evolution is entirely random, here once again, for the umpty-umpth time, rears its uncomprehending head. Genetic mutation is random, but environmental selection is NOT random. What I find absurd is that creationists lovingly hoard their willful ignorance on this point even after having been informed of their error beaucoup times.

344 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:16:20pm

re: #336 Silvergirl

I read the bio on Sarah Palin before she came on the scene. I followed the draft palin for vp blog, so had a feeling she was going to burst on the scene and surprise everyone. From what I knew, and what I believe, Palin doesn't put on slop. She is who she is, and her speech patterns aren't put on. I do agree that Hillary shifted dialects and threw back shots, and even as Obama put it, was acting like Annie Oakley.

Then that's even worst. She is countryfied, as per your comment. Then that is even more reason for me not to like her. She is not a smart woman, what more a keen politician.

345 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:16:29pm

re: #244 Walter L. Newton

Of course it's true. So many people were drooling over Palin JUST BECAUSE of that "countryfied" slop she put on. Well, what in the hell does that tell you about the electorate.

Why did Hillary shift dialects faster than a con man on the run as she pandered to the folks in different parts of the country.

Because a lot of folk out there don't have the smarts to understand the implications of all this.

The world so loves a boob.

Walter -

Have to respectfully disagree here. Gov. Palin for what I could observe put on little if any "slop." She is/was who she is. I am a "NY Area" kind of fellow.
I have also lived a bit around our large nation and know that my life experience is not universal. Love her, tolerate her or hate her, she speaks for a large part of this nation.

-S-

346 Thor-Zone  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:16:38pm

OT
Just listening to the new My Morning Jacket LP. It is called Evil Urges, and so far I think it is their best record yet.

Just sayin'

347 Hobbes[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:17:24pm
348 Desert Dog  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:17:27pm

re: #341 pink freud

How'd you and your son fare in the pinewood derby?


He finished 8th in the Pack....not bad!

349 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:17:39pm

re: #192 bluetick3

Maybe a creationist would be certain to lose in 2012, but personally I'd take an otherwise right-thinking creationist who sticks to the Constitution over a crypto-marxist pathological liar.

There's no difference.

Creationists do not "stick to the Constitution." Every one of the creationists quoted above wants to teach religious pseudo-science in public schools.

350 Sheepdogess  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:17:45pm

re: #212 devil in baggy pants

Sorry, I lost track of your post... didn't mean to dodge the question.

Real conservative, in my opinion:

1) smaller (national) government
2) strong national defense/military
3) belief in the individual to accomplish
4) free market economy/supply side economics
5) Constitutional purist-- no monkeying around with it
5a) strong supporter of 2nd Amendment rights especially

Those are my top 5.


Agree.

I would add one more.

6) Traditional family, two parents, a mom and a dad.

351 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:18:18pm

re: #345 Dr. Shalit

Walter -

Have to respectfully disagree here. Gov. Palin for what I could observe put on little if any "slop." She is/was who she is. I am a "NY Area" kind of fellow.
I have also lived a bit around our large nation and know that my life experience is not universal. Love her, tolerate her or hate her, she speaks for a large part of this nation.

-S-

Sir, you made my point, I was hoping someone would go where you went. You are the second person. If she is what the conservative voter is looking for, were are sunk. Scary, isn't it?

352 pink freud  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:18:42pm

re: #348 Desert Dog

He finished 8th in the Pack....not bad!

Congratulations!

353 Silvergirl  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:18:51pm

re: #344 Walter L. Newton

Then that's even worst. She is countryfied, as per your comment. Then that is even more reason for me not to like her. She is not a smart woman, what more a keen politician.

That's fine, Walter, don't like her. Different strokes, all that. My post was to state that she's not put on.

354 DaShox  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:18:54pm

Every head and knee shall bow...

355 Iron Fist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:19:16pm

re: #298 Sharmuta

Let's try this again (the dingo ate my post :-).

I wholeheartedly agree. Children shouldn't face indoctrination in public schools. The problem is that the only time the Courts and the Media actually believe this is when the indoctrination is coming from a Religious, or a Right-wing perspective. I had a number of teachers over the years who thought their primary mission as teachers was to turn out properly indoctrinated Leftist drones. Sometimes, my grades suffered because I wouldn't just regurgitate the Leftist talking-points that I'd been spoon-fed, other times my grades weren't negatively effected. But the pressure to conform to a generally Left-wing world-view was incessant, and pushed by the vast majority of my teachers, both in public school and university work.

The subtle Leftist push was more prevalent in public school, though. I don't mind having a professor who is an open Communist, but i have a real problem with a "history/social studies" teacher that strives to put the Soviet Union in a positive light during the height of the Cold War.

The effort at indoctrination were almost incessant, and I attended school in the South. I can only imagine what went on in the People's Republic of California.

356 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:19:28pm

re: #348 Desert Dog

He finished 8th in the Pack....not bad!

Good. I was in scouting for as long as they let you stick around. It's good for a kid.

357 albusteve[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:19:28pm
358 David IV of Georgia  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:19:30pm

re: #338 OldLineTexan

I won't do that with "Biggie Smalls" either, as I consider South Park a more accurate source of information than the MSM.

I somewhat detest South Park for the profanity and the low-brow humor. I watch it anyway because usually their take on current issues actually makes sense.

359 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:19:44pm

I am not going to stand for insults. Use my software to post an insult and I will use my software to take away your account.

360 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:20:01pm

re: #354 DaShox

And you shall go...

361 cowbellallen  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:20:09pm

re: #333 Walter L. Newton

Guess what? Even you say above has nothing to do with your original comment and my answer to you.

This is Charles' blog. He can post ANY subject that he wants to post. You are an invited guest.

You don't come in here and ask why he does what he wants to do with his house.

Charles' will block your account if you keep harping on what he wants as topics on HIS blog.

Got that?

I'm not harping about what he wants to post and didn't question why he is posting about stuff like this. Clearly it means a lot to him. I've been reading this website for a couple years now and haven't once complained about his blog (although from the way I said it initally that it could seem confusing).

362 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:20:44pm

re: #350 Sheepdogess

Agree.

I would add one more.

6) Traditional family, two parents, a mom and a dad.

So a hard working single mom or dad doing the best they can to support themselves and their kid(s) isn't welcome?!

363 bluetick3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:20:58pm

re: #349 Charles

There's no difference.

Creationists do not "stick to the Constitution." Every one of the ones quoted above wants to teach religious pseudo-science in public schools.

Wanting to and accomplishing same are two different things. I'll have to take your word for it and deduce that this would continue be their position as President. I do not know enough about the three of them to draw that conclusion on my own.

I'll concede they're nuts, though.

364 Killian Bundy  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:21:06pm

re: #342 Sharmuta

The tenth amendment doesn't give states the right to usurp the constitutional rights of anyone.

You have little idea what you're talking about with that statement.

/and I'll comment to who I please, scroll away if you don't like it

365 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:21:07pm

boom 357...

366 LynnfromNZ  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:21:10pm

re: #344 Walter L. Newton

Sorry, I hope I'm not misunderstanding you -- you're saying if Palin's countrified that she's not a smart person? Country hicks are stupid?

367 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:21:38pm

re: #234 LynnfromNZ

There are things the President can do something about, and things the President can't do anything about. Forget what candidates say about things they can't do anything about as President, and focus on what they say about things they might have some ability to enact as President.

Lots of times candidates simply throw red meat out to galvanize the base -- abortion! Same-sex unions! Creationism! End the Iraq War! -- but all it is, in the end, is bluster designed to confuse the simple-minded who never stop to think "Wait a second, the President doesn't have any control over that issue..."

I'd rather have a president who thinks every American should become a Wiccan who promises to lower my taxes and get government out of the business of business than a president disinterested in personal religious beliefs who thinks we need more government in our lives, because a President can do something about taxes and the size of government, but can't do a thing about my religious practices.

A shitload of creationist bills flooding state legislatures belie your premise. I care about what a candidate will try to DO as Prez - and we've already seen what Jindal actually DID as Gov. That's more than enough for me.

368 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:21:43pm

re: #361 cowbellallen

I'm not harping about what he wants to post and didn't question why he is posting about stuff like this. Clearly it means a lot to him. I've been reading this website for a couple years now and haven't once complained about his blog (although from the way I said it initally that it could seem confusing).

Yep, or else I wouldn't have been chatting with you for the last half hour. Yep, it sounded like you were harping on what he wants to post. And if you have been reading this blog for a couple of years now, then you know it pays to be very clear on a heated subject like this.

369 avanti  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:21:49pm

re: #17 Phil.

Charles, I have no problem with you pointing to creationists who I think are rather silly myself (children living side by side with dinosaurs?)

But let's not forget that both parties distort science to their own ends. I don't know your stance on anthropogenic global warming, but the global temperature trends are down for the past several years now and it's not like there isn't precedent for the global warming environmentalists to be completely wrong about temperature creating global catastrophe (global cooling in the 70's anyone?)


Temperatures have spiked up and down over the last 100 years, but te trend has always been upward. The often cited 1999 cooling year was just in comparison with record warm years and was still in the top 10 warmest in the last 100.
We can debate how large a effect man has had, and if we can fix it and at what cost, but to just label it a political conspiracy makes the argument against ID weak.

link.

370 devil in baggy pants  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:22:04pm

re: #324 sphincter

1/504th? Delta here. Oohrah


3rd... now defunct. =(

371 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:22:13pm

re: #24 Killgore Trout

Wow. I Checked his Wiki and he has an MBA. All of these guys sound like they never made it past 10th grade.

I did a survey for a class in college regarding the religions and majors of those who support YEC and those who support evolutionary theory. The YECs tended to hail from majors such as computer science and programming. The supporters of evolutionary theory had their bases of support in biology, geology, and related sciences and engineering. The mechanical and electrical engineering types tended to be split more by religious preferences. I had no business majors from which to sample, but based on the survey I did, I would suspect that given the distance they are from the harder sciences, they may have a larger proportion of YECs.

372 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:22:21pm

re: #358 David IV of Georgia

I somewhat detest South Park for the profanity and the low-brow humor. I watch it anyway because usually their take on current issues actually makes sense.

I don't detest it. It is a nasty veneer over some (usually) insightful commentary. I find it refreshing, as cartoons are capable of going over-the-top to make a point, and they certainly do. Some of the shows are throwaways, but some are jewels.

373 Boxy_brown  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:22:24pm

re: #345 Dr. Shalit

Love her, tolerate her or hate her, she speaks for a large part of this nation.

Right. These people don't spring up from a vacuum. They are elected in part because they have constituents that agree with their positions. That is just the case.

374 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:22:42pm

re: #366 LynnfromNZ

Sorry, I hope I'm not misunderstanding you -- you're saying if Palin's countrified that she's not a smart person? Country hicks are stupid?

I'm saying she is not a very smart person in my opinion.

375 FrogMarch  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:22:47pm

re: #355 Iron Fist

You are not alone, my friend.

[Link: brain-terminal.com...]

376 Desert Dog  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:22:50pm

re: #352 pink freud

Congratulations!

The proudest moment of his life so far

377 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:23:02pm

re: #363 bluetick3

Wanting to and accomplishing same are two different things. I'll have to take your word for it and deduce that this would continue be their position as President. I do not know enough about the three of them to draw that conclusion on my own.

I'll concede they're nuts, though.

Bobby Jindal HAS accomplished it.

Try to keep up.

378 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:23:18pm

re: #373 Boxy_brown

Right. These people don't spring up from a vacuum. They are elected in part because they have constituents that agree with their positions. That is just the case.

We're fucked then.

379 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:23:28pm

re: #238 godfrey

Who were the swing voters, and was creationism a significant factor in their vote?

They were the independents, moderates, and centrists, and unlike the socons, a majority of them accept evolution as the good solid science that it is.

380 TheMatrix31  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:23:32pm

Just a question because I have no idea about any of this stuff and stay away from these threads;

If it's infringing on the Constitution to do these stealth bills or whatever, then wouldn't they be struck down as unconstitutional anyway?

381 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:23:47pm

re: #212 devil in baggy pants

Sorry, I lost track of your post... didn't mean to dodge the question.

Real conservative, in my opinion:

1) smaller (national) government
2) strong national defense/military
3) belief in the individual to accomplish
4) free market economy/supply side economics
5) Constitutional purist-- no monkeying around with it
5a) strong supporter of 2nd Amendment rights especially

Those are my top 5.

I agree, and suggest some more wording here and there.

1. Principle of minimal government
2. Principle of national defense - as opposed to one-worldism or defeatism
3. Freedom-of rather than freedom-from.
4. Monetarism/markets rather than command, centralized economics.
5. Rule of written law rather than judicial activism, personal overrides.
6. Right of individual to bear arms.

382 Boxy_brown  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:24:07pm

re: #351 Walter L. Newton

If she is what the conservative voter is looking for, were are sunk.

Well, on a lot of "conservative" forums she is EXACTLY what they were looking for.

383 LynnfromNZ  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:24:20pm

re: #367 Salamantis

Right. Presidents introduce bills to state legislatures.

My earlier judgment that you're either not very smart or not very honest, or a bad combination of the two, is confirmed.

384 venomX  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:24:27pm

re: #351 Walter L. Newton

Ummm while the rest of the country is broke,alaska is in the black.Sorry,ill take someone with basic common sense,over someone with mega-degrees form Harvard,Yale,etc,etc. In fact ive found some of the most"educated"people i know,are some of the dumbest.Look at our new president.He can take a simple yes/no answer and turn it into a 13 minute blah blah session.Words dont impress me,actions do.

385 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:25:01pm

re: #380 TheMatrix31

Just a question because I have no idea about any of this stuff and stay away from these threads;

If it's infringing on the Constitution to do these stealth bills or whatever, then wouldn't they be struck down as unconstitutional anyway?

who would trust the SC?...not me

386 cowbellallen  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:25:12pm

re: #368 Walter L. Newton

Yep, or else I wouldn't have been chatting with you for the last half hour. Yep, it sounded like you were harping on what he wants to post. And if you have been reading this blog for a couple of years now, then you know it pays to be very clear on a heated subject like this.

I enjoy reading the stories on the Discovery Institute and enjoy reading this website. I believe that Charles is free to write whatever he wants. I disagree with how important creationism is in schools, even though I would prefer if it were not.

Hopefully, this is clear now. Yep.

387 Boxy_brown  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:25:28pm

re: #378 Walter L. Newton

We're fucked then

Either way. Probably.

Still, Ill go down swinging.

388 BigPapa  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:25:28pm

This is bad. Very bad.

389 Iron Fist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:25:37pm

re: #342 Sharmuta

The tenth amendment doesn't give states the right to usurp the constitutional rights of anyone.

And I ask that you please not comment to me again. Thank you.

Actually, the Bill of Rights didn't apply to the States at all. It wasn't until the passage of the 14th Amendment, after the Civil War, that parts of the Bill of Rights were selectively applied to the States. It is called the Doctrine of selective incorporation. Personally, I think it is bullshit, but i am not a Supreme Court justice so what I think is kind of beside the point.

oOne of the things that i am closely watching is how the Supreme Court applies the Second Amendment to the States (or not) in the light of Heller. It is going to have to deal with the issue sometime.

390 pink freud  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:25:51pm

re: #376 Desert Dog

The proudest moment of his life so far

Major kudos to your father'ship', Desert Dog! :-)

391 jaunte  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:26:02pm

re: #380 TheMatrix31

Just a question because I have no idea about any of this stuff and stay away from these threads;

If it's infringing on the Constitution to do these stealth bills or whatever, then wouldn't they be struck down as unconstitutional anyway?

Short version: The openly unconstitutional activity has now been masked (Intelligent design, "teaching the weaknesses in existing theories") and has made a comeback.
The local school districts will foot the bill when the lawsuits start. Waste of money and time, bad educational policy.

392 lobo91  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:26:06pm

re: #355 Iron Fist

The problem is that the only time the Courts and the Media actually believe this is when the indoctrination is coming from a Religious, or a Right-wing perspective. I had a number of teachers over the years who thought their primary mission as teachers was to turn out properly indoctrinated Leftist drones.

If you do a little research into the NEA (such as the topics of panel discussions held during their national conventions), you'll find that turning out "properly indoctrinated Leftist drones" is actually the goal of the whole public education system today.

I wouldn't allow a member of the NEA to teach my Sheltie to fetch, much less allow any children of mine to attend a public school in this country today.

393 burntjohn  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:26:38pm

re: #314 Killian Bundy

Those also include whitey hating "goddammm" America biblethumpers.
It's a big crowd, and they vote both ways.

394 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:26:55pm

re: #380 TheMatrix31

Just a question because I have no idea about any of this stuff and stay away from these threads;

If it's infringing on the Constitution to do these stealth bills or whatever, then wouldn't they be struck down as unconstitutional anyway?

Yes. These bills will cost the taxpayers enormous amounts of money in court fees and lawyers. They will lose and embarrass the Republicans who enact them. Huckabee has a plan around this; to change the constitution to reflect god's will.

395 TheMatrix31  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:27:03pm

re: #391 jaunte

Short version: The openly unconstitutional activity has now been masked (Intelligent design, "teaching the weaknesses in existing theories") and has made a comeback.
The local school districts will foot the bill when the lawsuits start. Waste of money and time, bad educational policy.

Thanks for the response.

396 pink freud  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:27:06pm

re: #378 Walter L. Newton

We're fucked then.

Natural extension of the dumbing down of the public school education.

397 sleepyone  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:27:10pm

Well, I'm no political analyst but I'd have to say creationism was a non issue in this recent election. I don't think that was even one of the reasons why Obama won. In my own layman's thoughts he won because he had the numbers. A lot of first-time voters who normally would not even vote just had to vote for him since he represented "change" and they really hated Bush, ya know. A lot of minority voters who traditionally aren't well represented at the polls and we know why they voted for Obama. Frankly, short of some crazy Obama scandal, I don't think the Republicans stood a chance against Obama. This is not to say they wouldn't have stood a chance against nearly any other Democrat. It was the power of Obama and his "magical aura" or whatever that convinced the masses to vote for him. I know otherwise sane, rational individuals that voted for Obama based on no investigative thinking.

And after my comments above I'm sure you can tell that I'm no political analyst and should probably stick to my day job but it's how I see things.

398 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:27:16pm

re: #351 Walter L. Newton

Sir, you made my point, I was hoping someone would go where you went. You are the second person. If she is what the conservative voter is looking for, were are sunk. Scary, isn't it?

Walter -

OK, much the same "kerfluffle" was made about the Late Pres. Reagan, who began running for President in 1968, forget 1976. He was seen by folks on my coast and in my circles as the "devil incarnate" - a RUBE and a BOOB. I saw him that way myself until late in 1983.
Question - did you change in the same direction during that time? Just wondering?

-S-

399 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:27:19pm

re: #253 devil in baggy pants

I think it's a states' rights issue, myself. Let each state figure it out.

You're wrong; the 14th amendment applies the federal guarantees found in the Bill of Rights to the states.

400 Shug  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:27:40pm

re: #396 pink freud

Natural extension of the dumbing down of the public school education.

and teaching dinosaurs strolling arm in arm with Humans only makes it worse

401 Gus 802  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:27:45pm

During the campaign and after reading and hearing about the reports on Palin I made a conscious decision not to watch the interviews she had with Couric and Gibson. Finally, I bit the bullet and watched them on You Tube. The first thing I experienced was a reflex of my jaw hitting my chest. This was followed by shallow breathing and a slight protrusion of my eyes.

402 MJ  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:27:49pm

re: #380 TheMatrix31

Just a question because I have no idea about any of this stuff and stay away from these threads;

If it's infringing on the Constitution to do these stealth bills or whatever, then wouldn't they be struck down as unconstitutional anyway?

Good question. Here are some answers though not necessarily Supreme Court decisions:

Evolution and Creationism in Public Schools

Index of Court Cases

[Link: atheism.about.com...]

403 bluetick3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:27:57pm

re: #377 Charles

Bobby Jindal HAS accomplished it.

Try to keep up.

I do my best to "keep up" but I do not follow Jinadal's every word. He accomplished it at the State level (although I do not know if it did or did not violated the state's constitution). I have never heard him say that it's his ambition for this be taught nationally and I do not know this would be his policy as a presidential candidate.

I certainly don't plan to vote for any of those three governors in the primary nonetheless.

404 Gus 802  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:28:14pm

re: #393 burntjohn

Those also include whitey hating "goddammm" America biblethumpers.
It's a big crowd, and they vote both ways.

Creationists got Obama into office.

405 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:28:25pm

re: #397 sleepyone

Well, I'm no political analyst but I'd have to say creationism was a non issue in this recent election.

You're right, you're not a political analyst.

Google "Sarah Palin creationism" and then try to tell me it wasn't an issue in the election.

406 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:28:31pm

re: #256 Maximu§

If I may, Louisiana has a Christian majority and their Man is Bobby Jindal. He speaks for them, not us and who the hell are we on the left-coast to question what their business is? A few words from the Good Book never hurt anyone and by the looks of these kids I see now-a-days, they could use it.

Tyranny by a religious majority is no more acceptable in the US than it is in Iran or Saudi Arabia.

407 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:29:00pm

re: #400 Shug

and teaching dinosaurs strolling arm in arm with Humans only makes it worse

DAMN YOU FRED FLINTSTONE!

/

408 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:29:32pm

re: #386 cowbellallen

I enjoy reading the stories on the Discovery Institute and enjoy reading this website. I believe that Charles is free to write whatever he wants. I disagree with how important creationism is in schools, even though I would prefer if it were not.

Hopefully, this is clear now. Yep.

what is your ideal resolution to the 'Creationism in schools' situation?...where do you stand on the Constitutionality of the problem?...where do you stand on science and public education?...play your hand

409 burntjohn  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:29:33pm

re: #372 OldLineTexan

This country needs more SouthPark Republicans.

Now lets bust out the ole cancer kazoo and make a pretty song.

410 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:30:02pm

re: #382 Boxy_brown

Well, on a lot of "conservative" forums she is EXACTLY what they were looking for.

I got that.

I was initially excited about Palin. Then she managed to punch several buttons of mine almost immediately, and most of the ones she missed got punched by her fans.

I don't quite understand what makes her so appealing to some people, but I suspect it is closely linked to why she makes me so crazy.

411 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:30:06pm

Now up to 7 hate mails.

412 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:30:33pm

re: #389 Iron Fist

And the Edwards decision pretty much established that the states can't infringe upon the rights of Free Exercise and Establishment. Creationism is unconstitutional.

413 TheMatrix31  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:30:44pm

re: #402 MJ

Good question. Here are some answers though not necessarily Supreme Court decisions:

Evolution and Creationism in Public Schools

Index of Court Cases

[Link: atheism.about.com...]

Seemsl ike the rulings have been generally evolution-friendly?

414 Killian Bundy  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:30:49pm

re: #389 Iron Fist

Actually, the Bill of Rights didn't apply to the States at all.

Really?

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

That's the 10th Amendment, part of the Bill of Rights.

/or at least it was last time I checked

415 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:30:59pm

Somewhere in this country is a kid with the brain potential to discover a cure for cancer. Now I ask, what are his/her chances of accomplishing this after being exposed to a less than truthful science education?

416 Iron Fist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:31:12pm

re: #385 albusteve

that is essentially the mistake Bush made in regard to McCain-Feingold. That legislation was so clearly and obviously unconstitutional that it was almost inconceivable that the Supreme Court would allow it to stand. But they did.

Oops.

417 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:31:12pm

re: #409 burntjohn

This country needs more SouthPark Republicans.

Now lets bust out the ole cancer kazoo and make a pretty song.

You get the kazoo; I will thump a big Bible.

418 MJ  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:31:16pm

re: #394 Killgore Trout

Yes. These bills will cost the taxpayers enormous amounts of money in court fees and lawyers. They will lose and embarrass the Republicans who enact them. Huckabee has a plan around this; to change the constitution to reflect god's will.

Yes, you're right. That's the only was he'll get around the Establishment Clause.

419 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:31:17pm

Correct me if I'm wrong here. Anybody.

Anyone who comes to LGF can read any post and the comments at anytime. If they catch an open registration they can post comments. You can search for specific subjects and there is even a "tag cloud" to search specific subjects.

So why is every "creationist" thread that Charles posts we get people who signed up in 2004 spewing wacky shit as if it's the first thread Charles has posted on the subject?

Charles, Jimmah and I batted this idea around a few threads back:
Make it easy for people to get banned. Put a check box somewhere around the comment box that says "Avoid embarrassment, click here to get banned".

420 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:31:26pm

re: #384 venomX

Ummm while the rest of the country is broke,alaska is in the black.Sorry,ill take someone with basic common sense,over someone with mega-degrees form Harvard,Yale,etc,etc. In fact ive found some of the most"educated"people i know,are some of the dumbest.Look at our new president.He can take a simple yes/no answer and turn it into a 13 minute blah blah session.Words dont impress me,actions do.

Not going to argue with the virtue of common sense, but how much fiscal know-how does it take to keep a fuel-producing state with minimal population in the black? If I'm totally off, please explain, I don't know that much about Alaskan finances.

421 pink freud  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:31:38pm

re: #401 Gus 802

During the campaign and after reading and hearing about the reports on Palin I made a conscious decision not to watch the interviews she had with Couric and Gibson. Finally, I bit the bullet and watched them on You Tube. The first thing I experienced was a reflex of my jaw hitting my chest. This was followed by shallow breathing and a slight protrusion of my eyes.

Yet there were millions who said "Yep, there's my candidate!" Like Walter said, "we're fucked."

422 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:31:52pm

re: #398 Dr. Shalit

Walter -

OK, much the same "kerfluffle" was made about the Late Pres. Reagan, who began running for President in 1968, forget 1976. He was seen by folks on my coast and in my circles as the "devil incarnate" - a RUBE and a BOOB. I saw him that way myself until late in 1983.
Question - did you change in the same direction during that time? Just wondering?

-S-

I was partying my way through life, making a lot of money as a programmer and local entertainer, had a few marriages, living here, living there, a house here, a house there, vacations, collecting all kinds of ancient history, lots of toys and didn't give a shit about politics. And then Sept. 11 happened.

Got the picture?

423 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:31:53pm

"Sarah Palin creationism."

1,220,000 results.

424 burntjohn  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:32:14pm

re: #404 Gus 802

I guess that means creationism trumps abortion.

425 Naso Tang  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:32:16pm

re: #21 Sharmuta

Draft Governor Jon Huntsman.

Because he's cute?

426 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:32:50pm

re: #283 jones

Versus Obama?

I'm not even remotely happy with him either; not for lack of intellect, but for lack of experience. And it is showing, more and more as time goes on.

427 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:32:56pm

re: #416 Iron Fist

that is essentially the mistake Bush made in regard to McCain-Feingold. That legislation was so clearly and obviously unconstitutional that it was almost inconceivable that the Supreme Court would allow it to stand. But they did.

Oops.

yup...Kelso as well, in my mind anyway

428 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:32:58pm
429 Boxy_brown  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:33:07pm

re: #410 SanFranciscoZionist

I was initially excited about Palin. Then she managed to punch several buttons of mine almost immediately, and most of the ones she missed got punched by her fans.

Agreed.

I don't quite understand what makes her so appealing to some people, but I suspect it is closely linked to why she makes me so crazy.

That whole "wanting to have a beer" with her thing as opposed to looking for a competent administrator who wont screw up.

430 kyleb[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:33:13pm
431 venomX  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:33:19pm

re: #420 SanFranciscoZionist

Well,im sure a democrat would find a way to screw that up.

432 Thor-Zone  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:33:19pm

re: #384 venomX

Ummm while the rest of the country is broke,alaska is in the black.Sorry,ill take someone with basic common sense,over someone with mega-degrees form Harvard,Yale,etc,etc. In fact ive found some of the most"educated"people i know,are some of the dumbest.Look at our new president.He can take a simple yes/no answer and turn it into a 13 minute blah blah session.Words dont impress me,actions do.

We are not in the black anymore. This year we are facing the largest deficit in our history. At the risk of repeating myself, SP is no fiscal conservative.

433 Killian Bundy  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:33:20pm

re: #405 Charles

Google "Sarah Palin creationism" and then try to tell me it wasn't an issue in the election.

About 300K+ hits.

/13 on the "news" tab, although maybe that's date restricted

434 Gus 802  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:33:21pm

re: #424 burntjohn

I guess that means creationism trumps abortion.

With the an urban Democratic electorate? For sure.

435 David IV of Georgia  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:33:31pm

re: #391 jaunte

Short version: The openly unconstitutional activity has now been masked (Intelligent design, "teaching the weaknesses in existing theories") and has made a comeback.
The local school districts will foot the bill when the lawsuits start. Waste of money and time, bad educational policy.

Teaching Creationism in public schools was deemed an unconstitutional way of promoting a religion. "Creationism" has been repackaged as "Intelligent Design" in an effort to thwart the Supreme Court ruling. Sooner or later the Supreme Court will get a case where they will say the two are the same.

436 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:33:49pm

re: #419 rightwinger3

Like a suicide booth?

437 Sheepdogess  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:33:57pm

re: #362 Sharmuta

So a hard working single mom or dad doing the best they can to support themselves and their kid(s) isn't welcome?!

Welcome? Of course! Optimal? No.

Would you prefer to have your child raised in a traditional and functional nuclear family, or in a single parent household?

438 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:34:00pm

re: #417 OldLineTexan

You get the kazoo; I will thump a big Bible.


Ever see the "My Name Is Earl" episode where the old lady has the Bible with the extra-extra large type? And slams him with it?

439 Bloodnok  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:34:15pm

re: #430 kyleb

Your taxi's here.

440 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:34:20pm

re: #430 kyleb

Get your own blog so we can come over and tell you what your priorities should be.

441 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:34:25pm

re: #419 rightwinger3

Correct me if I'm wrong here. Anybody.

Anyone who comes to LGF can read any post and the comments at anytime. If they catch an open registration they can post comments. You can search for specific subjects and there is even a "tag cloud" to search specific subjects.

So why is every "creationist" thread that Charles posts we get people who signed up in 2004 spewing wacky shit as if it's the first thread Charles has posted on the subject?

Charles, Jimmah and I batted this idea around a few threads back:
Make it easy for people to get banned. Put a check box somewhere around the comment box that says "Avoid embarrassment, click here to get banned".

I have a strong suspicion that many of these commentors are sockpuppets that were registered by people who have already been banned. Charles uncovered some now-banned commentors who have had over ten different sockpuppets.

442 MJ  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:34:35pm

re: #413 TheMatrix31

Seemsl ike the rulings have been generally evolution-friendly?

Well, I wouldn't necessarily read it as "evolution-friendly" as it "no establishment of religion" friendly. The source of this list isn't exactly neutral...

443 Killian Bundy  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:34:48pm

re: #423 Charles

"Sarah Palin creationism."

1,220,000 results.

/okay, I didn't include sarah

444 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:34:51pm

re: #436 OldLineTexan

Like a suicide booth?

Exactly. Charles can even use the drop down boxes for specific insults.

445 cowbellallen  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:35:17pm

re: #408 albusteve

what is your ideal resolution to the 'Creationism in schools' situation?...where do you stand on the Constitutionality of the problem?...where do you stand on science and public education?...play your hand

Seems like it shouldn't be an issue for the federal government, so I'm going to say leave it up to the states to decide.

446 Boxy_brown  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:35:26pm

re: #436 OldLineTexan

Like a suicide booth?

Aaah yes, another adult who still watches cartons.

447 bluetick3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:35:30pm

re: #430 kyleb

I don't want creationism taught either, but compared to the leftist indoctrination camps our universities have become, the creationist threat is small potatoes. The country survived a couple hundred years of creationist teaching without becoming a theocracy; we have no such record for the teaching of Marxism.
I liked this site a whole lot more when it had its priorities straight.

Therein lies why I did not understand the fuss.

448 KingKenrod  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:35:40pm

The United States strong past support of Israel is significantly grounded in the religious right's belief that Canaan was promised to the Hebrews by God, a covenant that cannot be undone. This belief is obviously grounded in religious faith, not fact - no one can prove God made such a provision.

So on one hand, we need this motivated force to drive a political behavior we desire (strong support of Israel), but on the other hand we want to stop this motivated force because they are attacking our society and schools with nonsense.

So what friend does Israel have in the US besides the GOP, and in particular the fundamentalist Christians? If we start rejecting creationists, will support for Israel wane with it?

Of course support for Israel can be grounded in the secular - Jews have legal, political, historical right to the land of Israel, we have moral and legal obligation to protect them as a free democracy in a nasty part of the world. I'm not making the argument you can only support Israel on religious grounds.

449 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:35:49pm

The only people who seem to think this is a "non-issue," oddly enough, are ... creationists.

450 avanti  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:35:53pm

re: #384 venomX

Ummm while the rest of the country is broke,alaska is in the black.Sorry,ill take someone with basic common sense,over someone with mega-degrees form Harvard,Yale,etc,etc. In fact ive found some of the most"educated"people i know,are some of the dumbest.Look at our new president.He can take a simple yes/no answer and turn it into a 13 minute blah blah session.Words dont impress me,actions do.

I think Palin is bright enough, but Alaska is rich because of oil, not because of it's government. I think the rights demonetization of intellectuals is counter productive. Common sense alone might be great for some jobs, but I want the best and the brightest in my leaders. i.e. I might like Joe the Plumber to fix my water heater, but might choose a Harvard grad for elected office.

451 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:35:54pm

re: #378 Walter L. Newton

We're fucked then.

Walter -

Then is then - What about NOW? Never thought I would ever think of Hillary Rodham as a moderating influence. We crossed paths very tangentially in 1974 and she scared me.

-S-

452 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:35:59pm

re: #441 Honorary Yooper

I have a strong suspicion that many of these commentors are sockpuppets that were registered by people who have already been banned. Charles uncovered some now-banned commentors who have had over ten different sockpuppets.

People really don't have anything better to do. Wow.

453 jaunte  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:36:07pm

re: #441 Honorary Yooper

I have a strong suspicion that many of these commentors are sockpuppets that were registered by people who have already been banned. Charles uncovered some now-banned commentors who have had over ten different sockpuppets.

Good grief. Talk about time on your hands.

454 sleepyone  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:36:08pm

re: #405 Charles

You're right, you're not a political analyst.

Google "Sarah Palin creationism" and then try to tell me it wasn't an issue in the election.

Well, I know it was an issue to the media and to some but I can't see how it played a role in helping Obama win. Are you saying that because of her views some folks simply didn't vote at all or voted for Obama because of it?

455 Naso Tang  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:36:27pm

re: #419 rightwinger3

It's a badge of honor in some circles. Kind of flattering for LGF really.

456 lobo91  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:36:37pm

re: #414 Killian Bundy

That's the 10th Amendment, part of the Bill of Rights.

/or at least it was last time I checked

You know, when I took Legislative Process in the late '90s, my professor was a former US Senator and one-time DNC chairman (and attorney).

He actually stated in class that the 10th Amendment was completely meaningless.

That's the sort of thinking we're up against these days from the other side.

457 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:36:40pm

re: #426 Salamantis

I'm not even remotely happy with him either; not for lack of intellect, but for lack of experience. And it is showing, more and more as time goes on.

I find he has too much experience in some areas, and not enough where we need it. He has way too much experience in the pay for play corrupt Cook County system for my taste. That also shows in his cabinet picks (Holder, Emanuel, and LaHood come to mind). Anyway, HTF did we get on the subject of Obama?

458 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:36:57pm

re: #454 sleepyone

Are you saying that because of her views some folks simply didn't vote at all or voted for Obama because of it?

There is absolutely no doubt about that.

459 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:37:10pm

re: #422 Walter L. Newton

Walter -

"YUP!"

-S-

460 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:37:17pm

re: #438 SanFranciscoZionist

Ever see the "My Name Is Earl" episode where the old lady has the Bible with the extra-extra large type? And slams him with it?

No, I haven't followed that show. It's not like I don't watch any TV, but I watch remarkably little network-type stuff these days. I am about to start watching "Lost" on DVD, though, since my daughter has purchased the available seasons.

But that sounds somewhat painful. ;)

461 venomX  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:37:30pm

re: #432 Thor-Zone

Ill take your word for it,but i was of the understanding that Alaska has billions of dollars in reserve.

462 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:38:06pm

re: #445 cowbellallen

Seems like it shouldn't be an issue for the federal government, so I'm going to say leave it up to the states to decide.

the Constitution IS the federal govt...you bitch but you offer no solution...I'm pretty stupid and you seem even more stupid than me and that's really pathetic...

463 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:38:14pm

re: #423 Charles

"Sarah Palin creationism."

1,220,000 results.

1,820,000 for gop republicans creationism.

464 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:38:21pm

re: #455 Naso Tang

It's a badge of honor in some circles. Kind of flattering for LGF really.

Like the NRA blacklist. Some people...

465 burntjohn  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:38:26pm

re: #435 David IV of Georgia

Intelligent Design is very different from creationism.
Both equally nutty, but different.

466 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:38:49pm

re: #437 Sheepdogess

Welcome? Of course! Optimal? No.

Would you prefer to have your child raised in a traditional and functional nuclear family, or in a single parent household?

I was raised in a single parent household. And just because a family has two parents doesn't make it any better or worse than a single parent household- it depends on the individual(s) involved.

Sorry, but my first step-mother was a bitch, and my dad and I were better off without her. So perhaps you should re-examine what you think is in a child's best interests, because it's not a carbon-copy process.

467 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:38:52pm

re: #446 Boxy_brown

Aaah yes, another adult who still watches cartons.

Real life sucks sometimes, and I needs mah sanity.

/

Plus I learned a hell of a lot of culture from Bugs Bunny!

468 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:38:55pm

re: #429 Boxy_brown

That whole "wanting to have a beer" with her thing as opposed to looking for a competent administrator who wont screw up.

I can't imagine wanting to have a beer with Palin, though. McCain, Bush, sure, I'd accept an invitation in a heartbeat. They come across as genuinely pleasant people.

I loved her kids, though. I would have voted for Piper.

469 Thor-Zone  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:39:02pm

re: #420 SanFranciscoZionist

Not going to argue with the virtue of common sense, but how much fiscal know-how does it take to keep a fuel-producing state with minimal population in the black? If I'm totally off, please explain, I don't know that much about Alaskan finances.

Alaska gets about 85% - 90% of its revenues from oil production on the north slope. Since Sarah Palin became the governor we have the highest tax costs of any oil producing province in the world. If you have any specific questions...fire away and I'll do my best to answer them for you.

470 Silvergirl  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:39:07pm

re: #397 sleepyone

Well, I'm no political analyst but I'd have to say creationism was a non issue in this recent election. I don't think that was even one of the reasons why Obama won. In my own layman's thoughts he won because he had the numbers. A lot of first-time voters who normally would not even vote just had to vote for him since he represented "change" and they really hated Bush, ya know. A lot of minority voters who traditionally aren't well represented at the polls and we know why they voted for Obama. Frankly, short of some crazy Obama scandal, I don't think the Republicans stood a chance against Obama. This is not to say they wouldn't have stood a chance against nearly any other Democrat. It was the power of Obama and his "magical aura" or whatever that convinced the masses to vote for him. I know otherwise sane, rational individuals that voted for Obama based on no investigative thinking.

And after my comments above I'm sure you can tell that I'm no political analyst and should probably stick to my day job but it's how I see things.

I believe creationism and many other isms were issues in the past election. We'll just never know the degree of importance they held, though we each have our opinions. Much of the rest of what you wrote I agree with, especially the part about Obama's magical aura. I felt it myself when I heard him speaking at the dem's 04 convention. I stopped what I was doing and stared at the TV and thought, this guy is on his way somewhere. I didn't believe it would be so soon, and I'm sorry it happened at all. I knew the press would elevate him, and once again did not believe the extent until I saw it, and I never believed for a second all the talk, "We're too racist to elect him. If he loses it's because we're still a prejudiced nation."

471 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:39:13pm

re: #423 Charles

"Sarah Palin creationism."

1,220,000 results.

380,000 for democrats creationism.

472 Gus 802  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:39:15pm

If CPAC is any indication and from the rumblings out of congress and the blogs I have no doubt that the GOP will take a turn to the far right in a final attempt to take back the White House.

473 Desert Dog  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:39:19pm

Well, we can chose our poison then.....do we want to join with the people on the right that share most of our fiscal and national security goals, but lose us on this forcing religion on the schools thing...OR, do we want to give up and take the Blue pill and join up with the KOSKIDS, MoveON, HuffPo, Make Love Not War types that are currently rah-rah-ing our mad rush to socialism? We cannot obtain national power with a coalition excluding the religious right. It would be great if reason prevailed and these Governors toned down the creationists stuff. But, If getting the White House is the goal, breaking into little groups because we do not like what they believe is another sure way to stay out of power forever.

If we want to stay true to our beliefs, we will not be seeing the White House, ever. The last election showed that even with 100% of the religious right voting for McCain, we still came up short.....

Perhaps we do need a third party to challenge the loonies on the left and the nuts on the right? Right now, I am deeply depressed about the entire state of politics in the USA.

474 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:39:42pm

re: #454 sleepyone

Well, I know it was an issue to the media and to some but I can't see how it played a role in helping Obama win. Are you saying that because of her views some folks simply didn't vote at all or voted for Obama because of it?

Ya think?!

475 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:39:46pm

re: #440 Sharmuta

Get your own blog so we can come over and tell you what your priorities should be.

That makes what, six or seven meltdowns already in this thread?

476 avanti  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:39:47pm

re: #405 Charles

You're right, you're not a political analyst.

Google "Sarah Palin creationism" and then try to tell me it wasn't an issue in the election.

Her choice was a deal breaker for me, and that was part of it, but basically, I saw it as transparent pandering to the religious right. Could anyone say with a straight face that she was the most qualified candidate to be President if the worst happened ?

477 Boxy_brown  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:39:51pm

re: #467 OldLineTexan

Plus I learned a hell of a lot of culture from Bugs Bunny!


You should see my ACME rocket sled.

478 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:40:09pm

re: #450 avanti

I think Palin is bright enough, but Alaska is rich because of oil, not because of it's government. I think the rights demonetization of intellectuals is counter productive. Common sense alone might be great for some jobs, but I want the best and the brightest in my leaders. i.e. I might like Joe the Plumber to fix my water heater, but might choose a Harvard grad for elected office.

But not Yale, because Bush graduated from there and we ALL know he's an idiot.

479 venomX  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:40:13pm

re: #450 avanti

True,but you play with the hand you are dealt.You can screw it up,or not. Im not demonizing Intellectuals,but it seems like theres plenty of the reverse going on(not here in particular).Also,the harvard and yale grads have done an excellent job governing so far,havent they?

480 sleepyone  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:40:43pm

re: #458 Charles

There is absolutely no doubt about that.

I'll take your word for it but it never occurred to me that it's an issue. Especially when faced with the possibility of an Obama administration.

481 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:40:47pm

re: #454 sleepyone

Are you saying that because of her views some folks simply didn't vote at all or voted for Obama because of it?


Yes, that's what I was saying before the election. People found her views and simple mindedness spooky. My mom cast her first ever Dem vote because of Palin and yes her creationism was in the list of causes. I've talked with others since who did the same thing. Read Hitchens' and Buckley's reasons for not voting because of Palin. I know many people thought Hitch and other pundits should leave the party anyways. A lot of people were turned off by Palin. It's a fact.

482 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:41:12pm

re: #437 Sheepdogess

Welcome? Of course! Optimal? No.

Would you prefer to have your child raised in a traditional and functional nuclear family, or in a single parent household?

I'll go for the first, for many reasons, but I'd rather the functional single-parent (or two, separated, parents) household than the dysfunctional two-parent one.

483 Killian Bundy  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:41:12pm

re: #456 lobo91

You know, when I took Legislative Process in the late '90s, my professor was a former US Senator and one-time DNC chairman (and attorney).

He actually stated in class that the 10th Amendment was completely meaningless.

That's the sort of thinking we're up against these days from the other side.

/well, if you look at what Congress actually does nowadays, very little of it is authorized in the Constitution, but after 200+ years, the mission creep probably can't be reeled back in any more

484 Shug  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:41:25pm

re: #463 Walter L. Newton

1,820,000 for gop republicans creationism.

2,190,000 for Sarah Palin's Hair.
617,000 for Joe Biden's Hair

I guess he has a lot less

485 cowbellallen  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:41:26pm

re: #462 albusteve

the Constitution IS the federal govt...you bitch but you offer no solution...I'm pretty stupid and you seem even more stupid than me and that's really pathetic...

If it makes you feel any better I'm only 18 years old and still in high school. Please educate me as to why it's a bad idea to leave this issue to states, I'd like to know.

486 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:41:35pm

re: #474 Sharmuta

Ya think?!


good lord...pass the bong

487 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:41:56pm

re: #476 avanti

Her choice was a deal breaker for me, and that was part of it, but basically, I saw it as transparent pandering to the religious right. Could anyone say with a straight face that she was the most qualified candidate to be President if the worst happened ?

No, that was certainly Obama. No doubt there; every Dem in the country voted for him because of his massive EXPERIENCE.

488 BigPapa  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:42:04pm

re: #422 Walter L. Newton

My moment was GW1. The world got suddenly smaller.

489 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:42:09pm

And now the hate mail's getting ugly.

490 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:42:13pm

re: #455 Naso Tang

It's a badge of honor in some circles. Kind of flattering for LGF really.

Yeah, they openly boast about it on a few of the sites. Of course, these sites tend to have a lot of pro-eurofascist sentiment as well.

491 Naso Tang  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:42:18pm

re: #464 rightwinger3

Like the NRA blacklist. Some people...

Heh. I had to Google that.

492 LynnfromNZ  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:42:19pm

re: #374 Walter L. Newton

Oh I see, that's your opinion about her, that's fine. It ticked me off during the election when the MSM took the position that any country girl from Alaska was by definition stupid.

493 jaunte  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:42:33pm

re: #489 Charles

Which circle of hell did Dante reserve for the Constitutionalists?

494 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:42:34pm

re: #480 sleepyone

I'll take your word for it but it never occurred to me that it's an issue. Especially when faced with the possibility of an Obama administration.

You don't have to take my word for it. Google it.

495 lostlakehiker  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:42:43pm

re: #258 snowcrash

I think Palins problem was more the anti-abortion stance. She walked the walk and had Trig. Unthinkable for many women. Her young unwed daughter had the baby too. This isn't lip service about being pro-life. Put many women voters off. Independents and Republicans. Abortion is a toxic political issue and she brought it to the forefront of the discussion. Too bad.

How is it a political issue if someone makes the personal choice to carry a pregnancy to term and then care for a raise the baby?

There's folk who would have chosen differently in Sarah's shoes. {A lot of us, probably.} Others who would have chosen differently in Bristol's shoes. {And that would be a shame, because her baby will probably grow into a fine, effective, badly needed adult.} But that's just our own opinions and beliefs. The Palins aren't out to force it on the country.

496 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:42:43pm

does anyone know Michael Steele's feelings on creationism/evolution?

497 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:43:01pm
498 Gus 802  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:43:05pm

re: #496 _RememberTonyC

does anyone know Michael Steele's feelings on creationism/evolution?

I can guess.

499 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:43:22pm

re: #489 Charles

And now the hate mail's getting ugly.

I've never heard of pretty hate mail before. :)

500 burntjohn  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:43:31pm

re: #486 albusteve

Bonghits?
On a Sunday night?

501 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:43:38pm

re: #469 Thor-Zone

Thor-Zone -

OK, question ONE - Absent the tax structure, is Alaska competitive in extraction costs per barrel of oil. If the answer is yes, I presume Gov. Palin is doing the same as the King of "Saudi" Arabia in trying to maximize return. If she goes too far, oil companies will go elsewhere.

-S-

502 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:43:41pm

re: #460 OldLineTexan

No, I haven't followed that show. It's not like I don't watch any TV, but I watch remarkably little network-type stuff these days. I am about to start watching "Lost" on DVD, though, since my daughter has purchased the available seasons.

But that sounds somewhat painful. ;)

Well, he had it coming. I was on her side. But it was an extremely large Bible to get hit in the head with.

503 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:43:53pm

re: #459 Dr. Shalit

Walter -

"YUP!"

-S-

In regards to your question "who now," I don't know. No one I've seen yet. If you have paid any attention to my postings, I firmly believe that the whole system is REALLY broke, and we have all the pieces of a kleptocracy and plutocracy in place right now, so, I don't think we have the actual structure in place to chance anything right now.

504 Silvergirl  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:44:14pm

re: #476 avanti

Her choice was a deal breaker for me, and that was part of it, but basically, I saw it as transparent pandering to the religious right. Could anyone say with a straight face that she was the most qualified candidate to be President if the worst happened ?

Truthfully, how straight is your face if you were to say Biden is qualified right now if the worst happened?

505 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:44:17pm

re: #489 Charles

And now the hate mail's getting ugly.

I'll bet. There seem to have been some serious meltdowns between last night and this current thread.

506 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:44:21pm

Email from Louisiana:

exactly what I meant about evolution fanatics.....no dissent tolerated

are you a Muslim or something?

507 snowcrash  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:44:27pm

Are we considering other candidates? What about Linda Lingle Gov Hawaii ? She gave a very good address to the (R) convention describing what executive experience means when being a governor. She spoke about budgets and Natl Guard unit deployment and other state issues. Plain looking but really clear thinker/speaker. Too bad that much of her speech was preempted by the talking heads at Fox but carried in its entirety on CSPAN. So, any potential?

508 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:44:30pm

Sarah Palin's War on Science

The GOP ticket's appalling contempt for knowledge and learning.
By Christopher Hitchens

509 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:44:56pm

re: #506 Charles

That's ironic!

510 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:45:01pm

re: #506 Charles

Email from Lousiana:

Oh noes! They've figured you out!

ROFL

511 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:45:03pm

re: #476 avanti

Her choice was a deal breaker for me, and that was part of it, but basically, I saw it as transparent pandering to the religious right. Could anyone say with a straight face that she was the most qualified candidate to be President if the worst happened ?

I didn't like her either, but I will say she had much more experience than Obama. Seriously.

512 pink freud  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:45:03pm

re: #476 avanti

Her choice was a deal breaker for me, and that was part of it, but basically, I saw it as transparent pandering to the religious right. Could anyone say with a straight face that she was the most qualified candidate to be President if the worst happened ?

Can anyone say with a straight face that 0bama is even marginally qualified to be President? At that point, what difference did it make? A vote for a VP candidate who was at least the Governor of a state, or the zero? Come on.

513 Desert Dog  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:45:07pm

re: #499 gclaghorn

I've never heard of pretty hate mail before. :)

How about a Pretty Hate Machine?

514 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:45:13pm
515 Dragonwolf  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:45:20pm

re: #128 Charles

Wow. Four hate mails already! The creationists are all stirred up out there.

But, but....that's how they were designed to be, weren't they?

Or is it that survival of the fittest has somehow been replaced by survival of the fit and the flakey?

516 lobo91  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:45:20pm

re: #476 avanti

Her choice was a deal breaker for me, and that was part of it, but basically, I saw it as transparent pandering to the religious right. Could anyone say with a straight face that she was the most qualified candidate to be President if the worst happened ?

I'd rather have her than the current early-stage dementia victim we have in that postion now.

517 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:45:30pm

re: #498 Gus 802

I can guess.

if steele buys into the creationism camp, that is not good news.

518 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:45:32pm

re: #497 buzzsawmonkey

Isn't hate mail ugly by definition?

Sometimes. Sometimes it's more amusing because of all the spelling and grammatical errors in it.

519 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:45:34pm

re: #476 avanti

Her choice was a deal breaker for me, and that was part of it, but basically, I saw it as transparent pandering to the religious right. Could anyone say with a straight face that she was the most qualified candidate to be President if the worst happened ?

Get off it. Maybe you want to use the word "experienced". There is only 2 qualifications as far as I know. Oh and Obama's experience was as a community organizer.

520 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:45:44pm

re: #506 Charles

Email from Lousiana:

exactly what I meant about evolution fanatics.....no dissent tolerated

are you a Muslim or something?

That makes absolutely no sense.

521 Boxy_brown  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:45:45pm

re: #468 SanFranciscoZionist

I can't imagine wanting to have a beer with Palin, though.

I can just picture having to buy round after round for her husband.

522 MJ  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:45:49pm

re: #448 KingKenrod

The United States strong past support of Israel is significantly grounded in the religious right's belief that Canaan was promised to the Hebrews by God, a covenant that cannot be undone. This belief is obviously grounded in religious faith, not fact - no one can prove God made such a provision.

So on one hand, we need this motivated force to drive a political behavior we desire (strong support of Israel), but on the other hand we want to stop this motivated force because they are attacking our society and schools with nonsense.

So what friend does Israel have in the US besides the GOP, and in particular the fundamentalist Christians? If we start rejecting creationists, will support for Israel wane with it?

Of course support for Israel can be grounded in the secular - Jews have legal, political, historical right to the land of Israel, we have moral and legal obligation to protect them as a free democracy in a nasty part of the world. I'm not making the argument you can only support Israel on religious grounds.

Well, I don't believe that historical support for Israel was the sole providence of the Religious Right in the US. Historically, the "Old Christan Right" was about as antisemitic and anti-Israel as your everyday member of the SS. Folks such as Gerald L. K. Smith were viciously antisemitic. Could I recommend a good book on support for the Establishment of the State of Israel? Peter Grose traced it in Israel in the Mind of America.

Support of Israel crosses party lines. Let's not forget that Truman was a Democrat and the first president to sell weapons to Israel was JFK. LBJ was was perhaps the most pro-Israel president till Bush.

523 Thor-Zone  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:45:52pm

re: #461 venomX

Ill take your word for it,but i was of the understanding that Alaska has billions of dollars in reserve.

In 1974 we created something called the Permanant Fund. The idea was to take oil revenues and put it in a savings account to fund state government when the oil ran out. Of course now days, that is not what most people think it is. Currently there is about 28 billion in that account.

Basically what we tried to do was to take a non-renewable resource and make it a renewable resource by having the earnings of the permanant fund pay for government.

524 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:46:09pm

re: #506 Charles

Heh. Obviously that one missed about 50-60% of the posts here.

525 BigPapa  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:46:40pm

re: #463 Walter L. Newton

Even more disturbing:

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,690,000 for bush chimp. (0.09 seconds)

I suppose the Creationism issue is going to continue to build for some time.

526 UberInfidel67  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:46:52pm

re: #519 rightwinger3
BUT JESUS WAS A COMMUNITY ORGANIZER!

/Saranwrap off

527 legalpad  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:47:04pm

re: #449 Charles

The only people who seem to think this is a "non-issue," oddly enough, are ... creationists.

Well, I think it was an irrelevant issue. The economy and the wars gave the Republican no chance, in my opinion, unless they came up with some serious dazzle. They didn't. Having a creationist as VP candidate didn't help, but it was far from being a decisive factor. I could be wrong, but I think immigration issues lost the Republicans more votes than creationism. But neither really mattered in the final analysis. It was the economy first, and second, another protracted war where our troops had one hand tied behind them.

528 EmmmieG  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:47:08pm

re: #485 cowbellallen

If it makes you feel any better I'm only 18 years old and still in high school. Please educate me as to why it's a bad idea to leave this issue to states, I'd like to know.

Anything in the constitution applies to the entire nation. No state can decide it isn't going to have the right to free speech, for example.

There's a clause in the constitution called the Establishment clause. Basically, the government does not regulate, restrict, or promote any one religion. If you teach religion in the schools, you would have to pick one to teach.

Imagine you're a Baptist who lives in Utah. Imagine you're a Jew in South Carolina. Imagine you're a Hindu in Iowa. The constitution protects your right to the free exercise of your own religion, and that includes the right to teach your children the family religion.

529 Desert Dog  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:47:21pm

re: #512 pink freud

Can anyone say with a straight face that 0bama is even marginally qualified to be President? At that point, what difference did it make? A vote for a VP candidate who was at least the Governor of a state, or the zero? Come on.

Hey now...Obama gave give a speech like no other.....isn't that enough for you? And, Joe Biden can tie his shoes (but not while chewing gum at the same time).

Obama/Biden or McCain/Palin

That is the best we can do in this country? If it is....we are all screwed!

530 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:47:25pm

re: #524 Honorary Yooper

Heh. Obviously that one missed about 50-60% of the posts here.

Hasn't heard of Harun Yahya or islamic creationism, apparently.

531 Hard Right  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:47:30pm

re: #92 Charles

I suspect Rudy Giuliani's heart wasn't in the campaign because he got the word early on that the GOP wasn't going to stand for him as the nominee.

1) Not a creationist.

2) Not hardcore anti-abortion.

3) Not hardcore pro-gun rights.

4) Divorced.

5) Not in the pocket of the religious right.

6) Not a Washington insider. (Probably most important.)

So how did McCain wind up as the nominee? Your theory doesn't seem to hold up on first glance.

re: #289 burntjohn

This is what happens when you let the biblethumpers take over the party.


Way to show what a bigotted jackass you are. I've worked for "Bible thumpers" who don't belive in ID or in forcing their beliefs on others.

532 pink freud  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:47:32pm

re: #485 cowbellallen

If it makes you feel any better I'm only 18 years old and still in high school. Please educate me as to why it's a bad idea to leave this issue to states, I'd like to know.

I applaud your willingness to learn and your presence here. Hang tough.

533 Boxy_brown  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:47:46pm

re: #525 BigPapa

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,690,000 for bush chimp. (0.09 seconds)

Sort of proves evolutionism right there.

534 BigPapa  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:48:19pm

re: #496 _RememberTonyC

Honestly, I'm afraid to ask at this point.

535 venomX  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:48:23pm

re: #523 Thor-Zone

Well thats a good thing.At least one state is smart(no im not giving all credit to palin).How does it go about getting "dipped"into?the Governers call?or legislature ,or both?

536 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:48:23pm

re: #380 TheMatrix31

Just a question because I have no idea about any of this stuff and stay away from these threads;

If it's infringing on the Constitution to do these stealth bills or whatever, then wouldn't they be struck down as unconstitutional anyway?

Yeah...after bankrupting state governments or school boards that shell out to defend them...while the Disco Institute shills laugh all the way to the bank on the money they make off the scam from selling them their unusable creationist crapola 'teaching' materials and demanding fat fees as 'expert' witnesses, and schools, teachers, and students lose, and the taxpayers are left footing the fucking bill.

537 Shug  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:48:47pm

re: #476 avanti

Her choice was a deal breaker for me, and that was part of it, but basically, I saw it as transparent pandering to the religious right. Could anyone say with a straight face that she was the most qualified candidate to be President if the worst happened ?


she was as unqualified as Obama

538 freetoken  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:48:55pm

re: #508 Killgore Trout

Sadly, I've concluded that this (GOP vs. science/knowledge) is good for at least another generation of politics... 20 years? 30 years? The evolution=satanism horse is no where close to being put out to pasture.

539 Thor-Zone  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:48:57pm

re: #476 avanti

Could anyone say with a straight face that she was the most qualified candidate to be President if the worst happened ?

I thought about that at the time and I was scared sh*&less

540 J.D.  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:49:00pm

re: #496 _RememberTonyC

does anyone know Michael Steele's feelings on creationism/evolution?

I would be totally amazed if he was a creationist.

541 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:49:11pm

re: #530 Sharmuta

Hasn't heard of Harun Yahya or islamic creationism, apparently.

I doubt the overwhelming majority of those who would teach creationism in public schools have heard of either, especially the former's link to DI.

542 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:49:12pm

re: #531 Hard Right

So how did McCain wind up as the nominee? Your theory doesn't seem to hold up on first glance.

See point #6.

543 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:49:13pm

re: #497 buzzsawmonkey

Isn't hate mail ugly by definition?

No, no, no.

PLEASE NOTE: SARCASM FOLLOWS. IF YOU ARE SARCASM IMPAIRED, CONSIDERING BECOMING SARCASM IMPAIRED, OR HAVE HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE INCURRED BY FREQUENT HANDLE-FLYING-OFF, PLEASE DISCONTINUE READING AND SEE YOUR HUMORIST.

Dear Mr. Johnson,

I have had the pleasure of perusing your blog for a number of months now, and have come to the conclusion that you are a vacuous ninnyhammer with several minor obsessions that would be more suited to navel-gazing than political activism. However, I find your technical innovations to be most inspiring, and look forward to seeing many more. Oh, and please die soon if at all possible.

Looking forward to seeing you at dinner next Saturday. Oh, and please die.

Best Regards,
A fan


///////

544 jorline  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:49:37pm

re: #471 Walter L. Newton

380,000 for democrats creationism.

884,000 for Ron Paul creationism.

Hell, what's a poll with Ron Paul?

545 avanti  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:49:45pm

re: #504 Silvergirl

Truthfully, how straight is your face if you were to say Biden is qualified right now if the worst happened?

If anything, he more qualified from the experience standpoint then the POTUS, not the case with Palin over Mccain. Potentially having Palin as POTUS scared the crap out of me on many levels.

546 Killgore Trout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:50:17pm

re: #538 freetoken

I think it will happen a little bit sooner than that. Maybe a couple more loses, 8-12 years and they'll start to figure it out.

547 Boxy_brown  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:50:29pm

re: #531 Hard Right

re: #533 Boxy_brown

Should read "evolution".

548 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:50:36pm

re: #530 Sharmuta

Hasn't heard of Harun Yahya or islamic creationism, apparently.

It's amazing to watch as you confront them with this. Some of the YECs have no idea what to do.

We were debating the issue of islamic creationism in the usenet group talk.origins about a decade ago. The resident YECs did not like us bringing it up.

549 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:51:22pm

re: #383 LynnfromNZ

Right. Presidents introduce bills to state legislatures.

My earlier judgment that you're either not very smart or not very honest, or a bad combination of the two, is confirmed.

No, Jindal signed a stealth creationist bill into law that his allies passed in the Louisiana state legislature. Just like a President could do with a compliant Congress.

My judgment is that your own judgment is as flawed as are your knowledge base and logical acumen.

550 itellu3times  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:51:26pm

Transitional architecture found.

Lost and found: palace of Robert the Bruce
Paul Kelbie
The Observer, Sunday 22 February 2009
Historians and archaeologists claim to have found the remains of King Robert the Bruce's palace, lost for more than 700 years.

551 Thor-Zone  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:51:38pm

re: #489 Charles

And now the hate mail's getting ugly.

Don't worry Charles....be happy

(channeling Bobby McFarren)

552 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:51:41pm

re: #545 avanti

If anything, he more qualified from the experience standpoint then the POTUS, not the case with Palin over Mccain. Potentially having Palin as POTUS scared the crap out of me on many levels.

And your pants were clean after you voted for Obama? Good for you.

553 burntjohn  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:51:56pm

re: #531 Hard Right

I work with plenty of them, plus I was raised by one.
Still do not get the whole pure religious identity thing.
It always leads to extremism.

Sort of like lashing out at me without a clue.

554 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:52:17pm

re: #506 Charles

Email from Louisiana:

Oh, crap.
It wasn't from me.

555 Shug  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:52:37pm

re: #545 avanti

If anything, he more qualified from the experience standpoint then the POTUS, not the case with Palin over Mccain. Potentially having Palin as POTUS scared the crap out of me on many levels.


I'll trade Palin for Obama right now. No questions asked.

556 Hard Right  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:52:37pm

re: #542 Charles

See point #6.

True, but the other things you said really didn't apply to him.
So you are saying being an insider is the most important thing?

557 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:52:48pm

re: #543 OldLineTexan

No, no, no.

PLEASE NOTE: SARCASM FOLLOWS. IF YOU ARE SARCASM IMPAIRED, CONSIDERING BECOMING SARCASM IMPAIRED, OR HAVE HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE INCURRED BY FREQUENT HANDLE-FLYING-OFF, PLEASE DISCONTINUE READING AND SEE YOUR HUMORIST.

Dear Mr. Johnson,

I have had the pleasure of perusing your blog for a number of months now, and have come to the conclusion that you are a vacuous ninnyhammer with several minor obsessions that would be more suited to navel-gazing than political activism. However, I find your technical innovations to be most inspiring, and look forward to seeing many more. Oh, and please die soon if at all possible.

Looking forward to seeing you at dinner next Saturday. Oh, and please die.

Best Regards,
A fan

///////

And how do we know that this comment is sarcasm? You say it's sarcasm, but, what if you are actually passive-aggressive, and this is your way of "kidding" with Charles while at the same time you are truthfully hoping that you can strangle him.

Ha... you have been found out!

/

558 KingKenrod  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:52:56pm

re: #508 Killgore Trout

Sarah Palin's War on Science

The GOP ticket's appalling contempt for knowledge and learning.
By Christopher Hitchens

I really like Hitchens and don't care for Palin, but that article is really an unfair hit piece. I kind of think it is Hitchens attempt to goad Palin into making public statements about her religious beliefs, something she should never have to do if she chooses not to. All religious people believe things that don't hold up to inquiry; let's judge her on her public record. Hitchens is really letting his prejudice get the best of him.

559 Desert Dog  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:52:57pm

re: #536 Salamantis

Yeah...after bankrupting state governments or school boards that shell out to defend them...while the Disco Institute shills laugh all the way to the bank on the money they make off the scam from selling them their unusable creationist crapola 'teaching' materials and demanding fat fees as 'expert' witnesses, and schools, teachers, and students lose, and the taxpayers are left footing the fucking bill.

They appear to be using the same grass roots methods that got many of the leftist policies in the schools that we all dislike. The people on the fringes are more dedicated to their cause and will take the time to go to school board meetings and run candidates on the local level that have direct influence on educational matters. Most people do not care or don't notice until one day little Johnny comes with a condom on a banana or a text book with cavemen riding dinosaurs.....

Man, I am in a cynical mood today...I think I need a Guiness (or two or three)

560 LynnfromNZ  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:52:58pm

re: #467 OldLineTexan
Oh yeah. To this day I hum "Kill the wabbit, kill the wabbit!" whenever hear the Ride of the Valkyries, and of course I can't attend the Barber of Seville without singing the Bugs Bunny version under my breath.

561 lostlakehiker  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:53:02pm

re: #442 MJ

Well, I wouldn't necessarily read it as "evolution-friendly" as it "no establishment of religion" friendly. The source of this list isn't exactly neutral...

The Kitzmiller case began with DI gloating that the judge was a conservative Christian republican and victory was assured.

The judge, unfortunately for them, was a conservative Christian republican. As such, he took his oath of office and his duties as a judge seriously. He studied the evidence and the case law and precedent. And then he wrote a careful, well reasoned opinion. They lost. They lost because they lied; they lost because they had no case, and they lost because the constitution didn't include a clause making Pat Roberts head of the Church of America.

562 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:53:11pm
563 jorline  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:53:12pm

re: #544 jorline

884,000 for Ron Paul creationism.

Hell, what's a poll without Ron Paul?

my bad

564 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:53:25pm

re: #386 cowbellallen

I enjoy reading the stories on the Discovery Institute and enjoy reading this website. I believe that Charles is free to write whatever he wants. I disagree with how important creationism is in schools, even though I would prefer if it were not.

Hopefully, this is clear now. Yep.

People tend to enjoy reading propaganda that confirms their personal biases.

565 pjaicomo  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:53:29pm

I will not vote for any of these men.

No exceptions.

566 saberry0530  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:53:36pm

re: #554 reine.de.tout

Oh, crap.
It wasn't from me.

Nor from ME!

567 TheMatrix31  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:54:08pm

re: #545 avanti

If anything, he more qualified from the experience standpoint then the POTUS, not the case with Palin over Mccain. Potentially having Palin as POTUS scared the crap out of me on many levels.

Well, good thing you dont have to worry about that now then, right?!?

568 Shug  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:54:27pm

re: #562 buzzsawmonkey

I agree with that

569 Boxy_brown  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:54:28pm

re: #555 Shug


"I'll trade Palin for Obama right now. No questions asked."

Me too, that's just how bad I think Obama is.

570 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:54:36pm

re: #2 MandyManners

Not Pawlenty! That name is enough to drive me over the edge.

I got ahold of some bad Pawlenty one time; I had the runs for three days.

571 BigPapa  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:54:41pm

re: #544 jorline

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,840,000 for Ron Paul polls. (0.20 seconds)

The One With Most Polls!

572 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:55:19pm

OT -

are we going to have a live blogging of the Oscars?

573 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:55:21pm

re: #566 saberry0530

Nor from ME!

Nor from Pink Freud either, I'm sure.

574 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:55:21pm

re: #558 KingKenrod

I really like Hitchens and don't care for Palin, but that article is really an unfair hit piece. I kind of think it is Hitchens attempt to goad Palin into making public statements about her religious beliefs, something she should never have to do if she chooses not to. All religious people believe things that don't hold up to inquiry; let's judge her on her public record. Hitchens is really letting his prejudice get the best of him.

It's not unfair at all. I agree with Hitch on this.

575 Thor-Zone  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:55:29pm

re: #501 Dr. Shalit

Thor-Zone -

OK, question ONE - Absent the tax structure, is Alaska competitive in extraction costs per barrel of oil. If the answer is yes, I presume Gov. Palin is doing the same as the King of "Saudi" Arabia in trying to maximize return. If she goes too far, oil companies will go elsewhere.

-S-

Before the huge tax hikes, Alaska was barely competetive because the cost of operating on the North Slope is so high. Over the last year or two the oil companies have been cancelling a lot of projects, becasue with the cost of doing business, plus the highest taxes on the face of the earth, very few projects are viable at this point.

The only new project I have heard about is a new gas processing plant that will be used by the Denali Project.

576 Desert Dog  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:55:44pm

let's put Google in perspective:

Results 1 - 10 of about 17,400,000 for big boobs. (0.11 seconds)

577 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:55:46pm

Who's this LC LOGHEAD power-tripper? He/she/it has been downdinging posts all night.

578 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:55:48pm

re: #564 Salamantis

People tend to enjoy reading propaganda that confirms their personal biases.

All too true. How many Democrats listen to Mike Savage? How many Republicans to NPR? Just two cases in point, but they do show that people like to listen to those who fit what they think.

579 HelloDare  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:56:06pm

re: #555 Shug

I'll trade Palin for Obama right now. No questions asked.

I'd even take two Palin's for Obama.

580 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:56:15pm

re: #554 reine.de.tout

Oh, crap.
It wasn't from me.

BTW, I bought a cookbook, so you can stop throwing things at me now. ;)

581 Taqyia2Me  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:56:30pm

re: #381 itellu3times

I agree, and suggest some more wording here and there.

1. Principle of minimal government
2. Principle of national defense - as opposed to one-worldism or defeatism
3. Freedom-of rather than freedom-from.
4. Monetarism/markets rather than command, centralized economics.
5. Rule of written law rather than judicial activism, personal overrides.
6. Right of individual to bear arms.

Wish I could upding that to infinity.

582 avanti  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:56:39pm

re: #537 Shug

she was as unqualified as Obama

I'll grant that neither were as experienced as their running mates, but Palin just did not impress me with her interviews or at the debate to be polite. Had she have done better, I'd still be scared because of her far right religious views.

583 Kosh's Shadow  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:56:41pm

re: #579 HelloDare

I'd even take two Palin's for Obama.

How about 2 Palins for 0bama and Biden?

584 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:56:51pm

re: #485 cowbellallen

If it makes you feel any better I'm only 18 years old and still in high school. Please educate me as to why it's a bad idea to leave this issue to states, I'd like to know.

well I really stepped in the shit then didnt I?...I apologize for my aggression... the takeover of science in public education by creationists and their Discovery Institute is well documented here at LGF...it quickly transcends state politics because it is no more or less than an attack on the Constitutions supposed freedom from religion...creationism is not scientific theory but the DI insists that it should be taught as an alternative to Darwinism and evolution which is indeed scientific fact as equal science...it is wrong and they are very aggressive and it is a growing problem

585 Shug  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:56:51pm

I'll trade Trig Palin for Obama. No questions asked

586 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:56:58pm

Do you attend church in a sports stadium? Then you might be a creationist. Free your mind of the little guy with bulletproof hair, pounding the lectern, and become closer to the truth of things physical and spiritual.

587 jorline  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:57:02pm

re: #571 BigPapa

Results 1 - 10 of about 2,840,000 for Ron Paul polls. (0.20 seconds)

The One With Most Polls!

He had potential.
//////

588 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:57:04pm

re: #577 gclaghorn

Who's this LC LOGHEAD power-tripper? He/she/it has been downdinging posts all night.

A chickenshit, IMHO. Come out to play, LC LOGHEAD!

589 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:57:06pm

re: #507 snowcrash

Are we considering other candidates? What about Linda Lingle Gov Hawaii ? She gave a very good address to the (R) convention describing what executive experience means when being a governor. She spoke about budgets and Natl Guard unit deployment and other state issues. Plain looking but really clear thinker/speaker. Too bad that much of her speech was preempted by the talking heads at Fox but carried in its entirety on CSPAN. So, any potential?

snowcrash -

You are new, good! Gov. Lingle's name came up as a possible VP Candidate in 2008. Going back to my comment at the time, I saw Gov. Palin as Linda Lingle with less baggage for the Republican Base. Gov. Lingle, among other things is divorced (no big deal), Jewish, as am I, (medium sized deal - see: ROMNEY), and Gay (Who Knows?). And if she were to move to NJ, establish residence, and run for Governor this year - I would vote for her in a "NY Minute."
Thinking about it, with a bit of luck, our next US Senator might just be State Senator Jennifer Beck of Red Bank, NJ. "Search Engine" her, think you will like most of what you see.

-S-

590 Desert Dog  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:57:18pm

re: #580 OldLineTexan

BTW, I bought a cookbook, so you can stop throwing things at me now. ;)

I have seen posts about this cookbook....what and where is it? LFG Cookbook?

591 sleepyone  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:57:26pm

re: #494 Charles

You don't have to take my word for it. Google it.

I've looked at a few of the hits from the search and while they are all about Palin and her views I couldn't find anything that attempted to determine if this caused voters to turn away from her. Like I said, I know this was an issue with some but I just can't see that it had a big effect on the outcome of the election. Obama was destined to win against McCain and there was nothing the GOP could do about it. The timing and political climate were right and the Republicans had nominated someone who turned off his base.

592 mich-again  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:57:33pm

Charles wrote..

This is wrong, and it’s one reason why the Democrats now control both houses of Congress. If this anti-scientific insanity continues, the Democrats will be in power for the next 20 years.

Agreed. To me, this whole debate reminds me of something Kurt Vonnegut mentioned in Cat's Cradle. The shape of the stack of cannonballs is determined by the very first layer. I don't see how the GOP can start out by denying facts and reason and hope to build on that foundation to formulate rational solutions for all the challenges we face.

It can't work and it won't.

593 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:57:48pm

re: #590 Desert Dog

I have seen posts about this cookbook....what and where is it? LFG Cookbook?

The LFG Cookbook

594 pink freud  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:57:49pm

re: #573 reine.de.tout

Nor from Pink Freud either, I'm sure.

Nor from ME!

Hiya reine :-)

How's the cookbook sales numbers so far?

595 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:58:06pm

re: #544 jorline

884,000 for Ron Paul creationism.

Hell, what's a poll with Ron Paul?

I was at Home Depot last night, and I parked next to a big Ford Club Wagon 15-passenger van with a Ron Paul Revolution sticker on it.

596 avanti  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:58:12pm

re: #552 rightwinger3

And your pants were clean after you voted for Obama? Good for you.

Yep, still happy with my choice compared to what the right offered this trip.

597 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:58:39pm

re: #557 Walter L. Newton

And how do we know that this comment is sarcasm? You say it's sarcasm, but, what if you are actually passive-aggressive, and this is your way of "kidding" with Charles while at the same time you are truthfully hoping that you can strangle him.

Ha... you have been found out!

/

Gawdammit Walter, you know that in Texas we only believe in aggressive aggression!

/

598 Thanos  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:58:53pm

Charles:
Great job, keep the high beams on. We need definitive statements from anyone seeking presidential nomination on this. Yes, I propose a litmus test, sauce for the gander and all.

(wish I'd been here earlier for this thread, it looks like a fun one from the third I've read.)

599 saberry0530  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:58:58pm

Great NAscar ace on. Kennseth and Gordon in a last 10 lap battle.

600 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:58:59pm

re: #586 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Do you attend church in a sports stadium? Then you might be a creationist. Free your mind of the little guy with bulletproof hair, pounding the lectern, and become closer to the truth of things physical and spiritual.

Occasionally in a gym. My school doesn't have a chapel big enough to fit all the students in.

But Father's hair is not bulletproof. I think he may cut it himself, but there's no product involved.

601 Aviator  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:59:04pm

re: #562 buzzsawmonkey

I would say less unqualified than Obama--not that that is a huge endorsement. But Palin, unlike Obama, did have some executive experience and had stayed with a job longer than he had. Yes, she showed a weak grasp of some geographic realities, but so did Obama--and her weakness in this area would not have been the immediate issue that Obama's is.

Both party tickets had weakness, but it is preferable to have the weakness at the bottom rather than the top; unfortunately, the nation chose the ticket with the weakness top to bottom.

FIFY

602 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:59:05pm

re: #555 Shug

I'll trade Palin for Obama right now. No questions asked.

me too, in a heart beat.

603 Hard Right  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:59:05pm

re: #577 gclaghorn

Who's this LC LOGHEAD power-tripper? He/she/it has been downdinging posts all night.

And Winston 06. I've been updinging every post they dowdinged. Damned dingbats.

604 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:59:10pm

re: #579 HelloDare

I'd even take two Palin's for Obama.

Are we trading Chocolate Frog Cards?

605 wolfie  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:59:18pm

re: #559 Desert Dog

Well said.
It is a sad fact that extremists on all sides can COUNT on citizens not paying attention to local school board activity.

606 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:59:42pm

re: #580 OldLineTexan

BTW, I bought a cookbook, so you can stop throwing things at me now. ;)

OK.
Though it's Carnival time and throwing things is sort of expected.

607 Shug  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:59:47pm

re: #586 Kreuzueber Halbmond

Do you attend church in a sports stadium? Then you might be a creationist. Free your mind of the little guy with bulletproof hair, pounding the lectern, and become closer to the truth of things physical and spiritual.


A buddy of mine almost got into a fist fight with an Angry man in a " Promise keepers " hat.

I don't know what provoked the promise keeper, but boy did he get pissed.

Me laughing at his hat shamed him into moving on.
( that and he noticed that there were several of us ready to stand up for my friend )_

608 Boxy_brown  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:59:52pm

re: #593 gclaghorn


The LFG Cookbook

To serve lizards...

609 Desert Dog  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 6:59:58pm

re: #593 gclaghorn

The LFG Cookbook

Thanks!

610 jorline  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:00:05pm

re: #588 Honorary Yooper

A chickenshit, IMHO. Come out to play, LC LOGHEAD!

Another stealth d-der.

611 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:00:05pm

re: #601 Aviator

FIFY

Fifty-seven states trumps Africa, IMO.

612 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:00:12pm

re: #595 Ward Cleaver

I was at Home Depot last night, and I parked next to a big Ford Club Wagon 15-passenger van with a Ron Paul Revolution sticker on it.

I see a lot of vehicles that still have Ron Paul stickers on them. There was a house in town that had the Ron Paul 2008 campaign signs up until November 5th. These folks do freak me out, and I suspect we haven't seen the last of Ron Paul.

613 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:00:22pm

re: #572 Walter L. Newton

OT -

are we going to have a live blogging of the Oscars?

no...that's a bunch of bologna...

614 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:00:32pm

re: #609 Desert Dog

Thanks!

Any time.

615 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:00:33pm

re: #435 David IV of Georgia

Teaching Creationism in public schools was deemed an unconstitutional way of promoting a religion. "Creationism" has been repackaged as "Intelligent Design" in an effort to thwart the Supreme Court ruling. Sooner or later the Supreme Court will get a case where they will say the two are the same.

They already have; the Dover case.

616 Thor-Zone  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:00:44pm

re: #535 venomX

Well thats a good thing.At least one state is smart(no im not giving all credit to palin).How does it go about getting "dipped"into?the Governers call?or legislature ,or both?


It takes a 2/3's vote of the legislature with approval by the Governor. To date the legislature has not dipped into it. There is something called the permanant fund dividend that is paid out to the people. If the legislature raided the permanant fund, there would be a reveloution here.

On one hand that is good because it keeps the fund from being wasted. On the other hand it is bad because it has become a huge entitlement program, which was not the entended function of the fund.

617 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:00:44pm

re: #596 avanti

Yep, still happy with my choice compared to what the right offered this trip.

Like I said, Good for you.
/You wouldn't have voted for the right regardless.

618 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:01:01pm

re: #606 reine.de.tout

OK.
Though it's Carnival time and throwing things is sort of expected.

My bare chest will not draw any beads, I promise you.

619 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:01:36pm

re: #594 pink freud

Nor from ME!

Hiya reine :-)

How's the cookbook sales numbers so far?

76 sold, $380 to split - they'll move the Feb money to the fund account on April 1st.

620 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:01:38pm

re: #615 Salamantis

They already have; the Dover case.

That didn't make it to SCOTUS, though.

621 jorline  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:01:46pm

re: #590 Desert Dog

I have seen posts about this cookbook....what and where is it? LFG Cookbook?

Meet the VP of Sales... Oh Reine.

622 freetoken  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:02:11pm

Let me reiterate something very basic but very important: I, like many Americans I believe, have no problem with any elected leader following his/her religion. In this last national election, I had no problem with the lapsed Catholicism of several candidates, the Mormonism of Romney, the generic evangelicalism of Huckabee's beliefs, Obama attending a classic black liberation church... none of it. Everyone has their own set of beliefs and I fully expect any politician to have theirs.

What it comes down to is... if as a matter of policy the prospective leader wants to turn American society backwards, and very particularly if they want to ditch the important knowledge that has been gained by our society through the long process of scientific discovery, then that leader will be attempting (with intent or not) to harm America in the long run. We cannot go back, no one ever can...

None of those pandering politicians who so want to court the anti-science (really, anti-knowledge) bloc will get my vote. I'm a pretty centrist person (and on political nature tests normally end up as a slightly conservative, slightly libertarian person), and I suspect my instincts here are in accord with a large segment of the US electorate.

623 Boxy_brown  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:02:29pm

re: #617 rightwinger3

Like I said, Good for you.
/You wouldn't have voted for the right regardless.

Obama is going to screw things up to the point where even Avanti's kool-aid will wear off.

624 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:02:36pm

re: #606 reine.de.tout

OK.
Though it's Carnival time and throwing things is sort of expected.

Heh. Catch any beads or doubloons?
I have more than a few from the two I went to ('78 and '79). They love to give that stuff out to the little kids. :-)

625 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:02:36pm

re: #590 Desert Dog

I have seen posts about this cookbook....what and where is it? LFG Cookbook?

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN!
Click my nic.

626 venomX  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:02:41pm

re: #616 Thor-Zone
Ok thanks for the info.Interesting.

627 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:02:49pm

re: #587 jorline

He had potential.
//////

Poll-tential!

628 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:02:53pm

re: #597 OldLineTexan

Gawdammit Walter, you know that in Texas we only believe in aggressive aggression!

/

I lived there from 1974 to 1989 and I knew two kinds of people, friendly and scary. There was no in between. Be careful of the scary, although they could be on your side, but there wasn't a better bunch of friendly I've ever known.

629 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:03:01pm

re: #575 Thor-Zone

Before the huge tax hikes, Alaska was barely competetive because the cost of operating on the North Slope is so high. Over the last year or two the oil companies have been cancelling a lot of projects, becasue with the cost of doing business, plus the highest taxes on the face of the earth, very few projects are viable at this point.

The only new project I have heard about is a new gas processing plant that will be used by the Denali Project.

Thor-Zone -

Thanks, a straight answer to a straight question is refreshing to say the least.

-S-

630 BigPapa  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:03:02pm

re: #543 OldLineTexan

'Vacuous Ninnyhammer?' That'll show em! Ding.

631 zombie  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:03:18pm

Somewhere online I just saw that the Oscars are happening now. Like, right now.

Is that true? Damn, am I clueless or what.

If so -- and I don't know how far along it is, nor do I know what has won what yet, if anything, but:

Has "Milk" finished winning every category it was nominated in yet?

I was over in the Castro District yesterday and the general consensus was: it's a done deal. "Milk" has a lock on all the Oscars.

Seems to be an accurate prediction, because in the hierarchy of PC topics, "gayness" trumps them all -- even "prostitute with a heart of gold" and "Nazis," both of which generally are hard to beat.

632 Desert Dog  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:03:25pm

re: #625 reine.de.tout

WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN!
Click my nic.

I got the site now, I will be ordering one!

633 MAredneck  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:03:33pm

Kim interesting an on topic, approx.

634 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:03:45pm

And the hate mail pours in from people who think they have the right to insult me at my own blog:

Sorry you can accept only fawning agreement. You're getting more and more like BHO every day - clear the playing field of any who might disagree. Good luck with your little fascist fiefdom.

635 cowbellallen  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:03:57pm

re: #564 Salamantis

People tend to enjoy reading propaganda that confirms their personal biases.

Man, do I just have some sort of problem communicating my views or something? The Discovery Institute is laughable.

636 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:04:00pm

re: #618 OldLineTexan

My bare chest will not draw any beads, I promise you.

Nor mine, anymore.
*sigh*
those were the days.

637 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:04:09pm

re: #623 Boxy_brown

Obama is going to screw things up to the point where even Avanti's kool-aid will wear off.

Boxy, that's a nice sentiment, but I doubt it.

638 pink freud  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:04:17pm

re: #619 reine.de.tout

Not bad for starters. Looks like there's a lot of interest in Volume Deux.

639 Hard Right  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:04:29pm

re: #612 Honorary Yooper

I see a lot of vehicles that still have Ron Paul stickers on them. There was a house in town that had the Ron Paul 2008 campaign signs up until November 5th. These folks do freak me out, and I suspect we haven't seen the last of Ron Paul.

There is a used tire store across from a gas station I've been to. The owner must be a RP loon. He has a sheets with stuff painted on them like "The Fed did it!"

BTW Charles, your theory on Giuliani is just wrong for the most part.

640 wolfie  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:04:32pm

re: #611 OldLineTexan

My personal favorite was Obama's statement that Iran was a "tiny country" that was "no threat to anyone."

641 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:04:40pm

re: #628 Walter L. Newton

I lived there from 1974 to 1989 and I knew two kinds of people, friendly and scary. There was no in between. Be careful of the scary, although they could be on your side, but there wasn't a better bunch of friendly I've ever known.

Personally, I stay the hell out of parts of East Texas. In Columbus' time, they would have been black spots on the maps.

642 reine.de.tout  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:04:43pm

re: #638 pink freud

Not bad for starters. Looks like there's a lot of interest in Volume Deux.

Yes, we'll do it in a couple of months.

643 Thanos  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:04:46pm

Those of you talking of running off the whig party - that's exactly what DI wants you to do because it gives them more control. They don't care if the party is large or small as long as they have control.

I'm staying here until the 2012 candidate is selected to fight.

Before you jump ship, answer a few questions:

Where does the Whig party get its money?

Are they aligned with any think tanks or foundations?

If so which?

I think you ought to know at least that much before you join a party on bare web site statements.

644 Shug  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:04:58pm

re: #631 zombie

I assume it's about Harvey Milk?

Shows how closely I follow hollywood. I don't even know what's playing or what's nominated.

645 Desert Dog  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:05:02pm

re: #636 reine.de.tout

Nor mine, anymore.
*sigh*
those were the days.

I think if we took a vote, you would beat Old Line by a very large margin...not offense to you, OLT.

646 J.D.  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:05:07pm

Penelope Cruz beat out Marisa Tomei for supporting actress.

How's that for live blogging?

647 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:05:13pm

re: #596 avanti

Yep, still happy with my choice compared to what the right offered this trip.

you would never have voted for any conservative or Republican...drooler

648 Hard Right  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:05:30pm

re: #617 rightwinger3

Like I said, Good for you.
/You wouldn't have voted for the right regardless.

You mean he/she wouldn't have voted intelligently.

649 Sheepdogess  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:05:39pm

re: #466 Sharmuta

Sharmuta -- the operative words are "traditional and functional". The data is overwhelming that this construct is optimal. Congrats on beating the odds.

650 avanti  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:05:40pm

re: #602 nyc redneck

me too, in a heart beat.

`````````re: #585 Shug

I'll trade Trig Palin for Obama. No questions asked

And that says a lot about how far you are out of touch with the electorate. It'll take more then a energized base to win.

651 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:05:50pm
Sorry you can accept only fawning agreement. You're getting more and more like BHO every day - clear the playing field of any who might disagree. Good luck with your little fascist fiefdom.

Fascist? Since when did it become acceptable decorum on blogs to insult the owner of the blog and shit on his front room rug?

652 zombie  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:06:13pm

re: #634 Charles

Good luck with your little fascist fiefdom.

Wow, blog-owners have dictatorial powers to control society? Damn. I must have been not paying attention when Dictatorship was doled out to bloggers.

653 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:06:23pm

re: #639 Hard Right

BTW Charles, your theory on Giuliani is just wrong for the most part.

Thank you for sharing.

654 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:06:25pm

re: #631 zombie

zombie -

Think that around here tonight the answer of most "Lizardim" is "WHO CARES?"

-S-

655 bluetick3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:06:27pm

re: #635 cowbellallen

Man, do I just have some sort of problem communicating my views or something? The Discovery Institute is laughable.

I apparently am plagued with the same problem this evening, based on responses to my comments.

Think these ID/Creationist people are fruitcakes.

656 Boxy_brown  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:06:33pm

re: #637 rightwinger3

Boxy, that's a nice sentiment, but I doubt it.

Yeah, you're right; no brain/no pain. :-D

657 Summer  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:06:40pm

I"m really busy modeling a Formula 1 car in Maya at the moment...I lost track of this entire thread because it's sort of on a deadline at the moment.

However...

I'm posting this just to piss off the Young Earth Creationists:

=)

658 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:07:00pm

re: #644 Shug

I assume it's about Harvey Milk?

Shows how closely I follow hollywood. I don't even know what's playing or what's nominated.

Who the hell is/was Harvey Milk? Never heard of him until they advertised the movie.

659 avanti  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:07:07pm

re: #617 rightwinger3

Like I said, Good for you.
/You wouldn't have voted for the right regardless.

Maybe not, but I was a early McCain supporter.

660 bluetick3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:07:08pm

re: #655 bluetick3

I apparently am plagued with the same problem this evening, based on responses to my comments.

Think these ID/Creationist people are fruitcakes.

I* think. . .

661 pingjockey  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:07:26pm

I finally started looking at the rating bloc at the top of the page. It's amazing. We have down dingers whom I've never seen post a comment, the names are that unfamiliar. Chicken shits.

662 zombie  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:07:30pm

re: #644 Shug

I assume it's about Harvey Milk?

Shows how closely I follow hollywood. I don't even know what's playing or what's nominated.

Yeah, historical revisionism about Harvey Milk. With Sean Penn, who had a blank space on his mantle for another statuette.

663 Hard Right  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:07:40pm

re: #650 avanti

And that says a lot about how far you are out of touch with the electorate. It'll take more then a energized base to win.

You have no business calling anyone out of touch. Project much?

664 BigPapa  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:07:40pm

re: #631 zombie

I'd be shocked if Milk didn't win something. Reading SFGate, it's probably a better movie than Citizen Kane, Apocalypse Now, and all three Godfather movies. Combined.

665 Thor-Zone  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:07:55pm

re: #634 Charles

And the hate mail pours in from people who think they have the right to insult me at my own blog:

Charles....don't let it bring you down, its only castles burning.

channeling Neil Young

666 ErnieG  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:07:56pm

re: #220 abolitionist

The anonymity thing could be more of a problem with the vetting process than it was for Obama. Or maybe not.

We know more about Zombie than we ever knew about Obama.

667 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:07:57pm

re: #645 Desert Dog

I think if we took a vote, you would beat Old Line by a very large margin...not offense to you, OLT.

Good Lord, none taken.

668 Desert Dog  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:08:02pm

re: #654 Dr. Shalit

zombie -

Think that around here tonight the answer of most "Lizardim" is "WHO CARES?"

-S-

Gran Torino was not nominated for anything, so I am not watching. But, I hope Slumdog cleans up, that was a good movie.

669 wolfie  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:08:05pm

re: #646 J.D.

Excellent. Her dress was FAR superior.
(All I care about is the outfits!)

670 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:08:06pm

re: #635 cowbellallen

Man, do I just have some sort of problem communicating my views or something? The Discovery Institute is laughable.

Yes you do. This is the second time you have asked that question. Your original comment "I enjoy reading the stories on the Discovery Institute and enjoy reading this website." certainly sounded like you found something positive in the DI.

How would you take you own statement? We are talking about the dishonesty of positions like taken by the the DI, and you say you enjoy reading their stories.

Put down the booze.

671 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:08:21pm

re: #612 Honorary Yooper

I see a lot of vehicles that still have Ron Paul stickers on them. There was a house in town that had the Ron Paul 2008 campaign signs up until November 5th. These folks do freak me out, and I suspect we haven't seen the last of Ron Paul.

Oh, far from it. I think he'll be the new Harold Stassen.

672 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:08:24pm

re: #650 avanti

And that says a lot about how far you are out of touch with the electorate. It'll take more then a energized base to win.

oh, so you would rather have this commie who is determined to destroy our country? and making great progress in just one month.
bullshit.

673 Thanos  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:08:25pm

re: #634 Charles

And the hate mail pours in from people who think they have the right to insult me at my own blog:

I remember disagreeing with you two days ago, it turned out I was even correct. I thought you took it rather graciously.

Charles doesn't mind fact based and non acrimonius disagreement, I've called him on other things as well.

674 brookly red  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:08:29pm

re: #607 Shug

Q: what is a "promise keeper"? (I am in NYC & have no idea...)

675 Bloodnok  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:09:04pm

re: #644 Shug

I assume it's about Harvey Milk?

Shows how closely I follow hollywood. I don't even know what's playing or what's nominated.

The last three movies I saw in the theaters were the 3 LOTR films as they were released. Throw in Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz and those are the last 5 mainstream films I've seen. There are too many films from the 30's and 40's I have yet to see.

676 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:09:08pm

re: #650 avanti

And that says a lot about how far you are out of touch with the electorate. It'll take more then a energized base to win.

the electorate are uninformed, lack any knowledge of history and even primitive economics, sworn to the fucking MSM and drool all over each other and you call us out of touch?....you are a bonified idiot

677 KingKenrod  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:09:12pm

re: #574 Charles

It's not unfair at all. I agree with Hitch on this.

If you apply the religious belief test to public office, no one passes except people who have no belief.

For instance, Catholics believe the Eucharist is the actual body of Christ. Hitchens could just as easily make the point that your average Catholic or a Mormon or a Methodist is just as deranged as Palin. I take the article to mean religious belief makes you unfit for office, something he argues at length in his recent book.

The important thing is how a person allows their belief to influence their public service. Hitchens doesn't come close to making that argument about Palin. It's pure guilt by association, not a credible tactic. I think it is quite possible that Palin has no interest in using her office to further religion. Once again, I'm not a supporter.

678 venomX  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:09:14pm

re: #659 avanti

Im still wondering what obama believes.....about anything.

679 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:09:24pm

re: #662 zombie

Yeah, historical revisionism about Harvey Milk. With Sean Penn, who had a blank space on his mantle for another statuette.

I've never heard of Harvey Milk until the ads came out. Who the heck is/was he?

680 BigPapa  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:09:25pm

re: #634 Charles

'Fascist feifdom.' I'm sure that really hurts, coming from somebody who doesn't know a thing about fascism.

681 avanti  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:09:29pm

re: #663 Hard Right

You have no business calling anyone out of touch. Project much?

Come on, Trig Palin, really ?

682 Iron Fist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:09:49pm

re: #414 Killian Bundy

Ok, that is somewhat correct, as far as it goes. In principle I agree with you. In practice, the Tenth Amendment hasn't meant much until fairly recently. US v. Lopez was, IIRC, a Tenth Amendment issue case, basically saying that the Federal Government didn't have the authority to dictate what was and was not acceptible behavior on State run public schools' grounds. In practice, though, the Rights in the Bill of Rights control or constrain the State authority only where they have been incorperated by way of the Fourteenth. As I said above, it will be interesting to see how the Supreme Court handels State gun control laws post-Heller. Obviously, I am pro-incorperation (I think the whold Doctrine of Selective Incorperation is horse shit), but it is not a given that theat will be the decision made by the Court when it finally gets around to addressing the issue.

That was one of the biggest reasons I held my nose and voted for McCain. Supreme Court Justices are too important to trust to a man like Obama.

683 Hard Right  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:09:50pm

re: #653 Charles

Thank you for sharing.

I asked you and you said see number six. I asked you another question and you didn't answer. Soooo, I will ask you again.
You are saying being an insider carries more weight than the other reasons? They didn't strictly apply to McCain.

BTW, I'm not defending Giuliani.

684 J.D.  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:09:55pm

re: #669 wolfie

Excellent. Her dress was FAR superior.
(All I care about is the outfits!)

Well, good for her!
I didn't see her movie, though, did you?

685 MandyManners  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:10:23pm

re: #634 Charles

little fascist fiefdom

That would make an excellent rotating title.

686 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:10:24pm

re: #659 avanti

Maybe not, but I was a early McCain supporter.

John McCain, I'm sure, thanks you. You are a great American avanti.

687 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:10:34pm

re: #646 J.D.

Penelope Cruz beat out Marisa Tomei for supporting actress.

How's that for live blogging?

Penelope is definitely hotter.

J.D.!

688 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:10:48pm

re: #658 Honorary Yooper

Who the hell is/was Harvey Milk? Never heard of him until they advertised the movie.

San Francisco city politician, trailblazer as an openly gay man in politics, murdered along with the then mayor of SF in 1978. Now played by Sean Penn in biopic that Zombie believes will win Oscars tonight.

Or may already have. My TV is not on.

689 Desert Dog  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:10:59pm

re: #662 zombie

Yeah, historical revisionism about Harvey Milk. With Sean Penn, who had a blank space on his mantle for another statuette.

Don't you mean Saint Harvey the Pious? He was the greatest man that ever lived.....well, maybe the second greatest, the first place belongs to Che.

/

Not to minimize the brutal murder of another human being, but that movie (Milk) is nothing but leftist propaganda.

690 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:11:10pm

re: #662 zombie

Yeah, historical revisionism about Harvey Milk. With Sean Penn, who had a blank space on his mantle for another statuette.

I thought that movie was a documentary on the "have you seen this child" campaign?

691 zombie  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:11:15pm

re: #658 Honorary Yooper

Who the hell is/was Harvey Milk? Never heard of him until they advertised the movie.

He was the first openly gay politician (or among the first.) Murdered back in the '70s by a mentally ill fellow politician who has resigned his position, then couldn't get it back. A sort of pivotal moment in San Francisco history.

692 lobo91  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:11:25pm

re: #676 albusteve

the electorate are uninformed, lack any knowledge of history and even primitive economics, sworn to the fucking MSM and drool all over each other and you call us out of touch?....you are a bonified idiot

Well, to be fair, that pretty well describes the current majority in Congress, as well...

693 Hard Right  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:11:34pm

re: #681 avanti

Come on, Trig Palin, really ?

Where did I say that? Nice straw man.

694 Osama Bin Porkchop  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:11:45pm

This whole "creationism vs. evolution" argument, does absolutely nothing for me when it comes to politics. Bigger fish to fry, in terms of issues, at least to me....

695 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:12:00pm

re: #674 brookly red

Q: what is a "promise keeper"? (I am in NYC & have no idea...)

[Link: www.promisekeepers.org...]

696 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:12:01pm

re: #677 KingKenrod

I take the article to mean religious belief makes you unfit for office, something he argues at length in his recent book.

I'm reading the book right now. About 3/4 through. So far I haven't read anything that even comes close to saying that. Is that in the last quarter somewhere?

697 cronus  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:12:09pm

re: #634 Charles

Fascist fiefdom? Aren't these people familiar with the tab feature of the latest whiz bang browsers. You just click right next to the existing window and POW! -- you can get a different opinion or express your own. You don't even have to go to the hard work of opening a new browser window anymore...

698 Shug  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:12:31pm

re: #650 avanti

And that says a lot about how far you are out of touch with the electorate. It'll take more then a energized base to win.


Obama is dangerous. I'd rather have an infant in the Oval office than a dangerous radical

699 J.D.  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:12:33pm

re: #687 Ward Cleaver

Penelope is definitely hotter.

J.D.!



WARD!

Did you see her movie?
I only heard one person comment on it and they weren't enthusiastic about it...

700 devil in baggy pants  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:12:39pm

Heath Ledger won Best Supporting Actor for "Dark Night"

701 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:12:48pm

re: #681 avanti

Come on, Trig Palin, really ?

grasp...these people you mock only certifies your shallow humanity...you have exposed yourself for what you are...you have not won anything

702 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:13:08pm

re: #649 Sheepdogess

Sharmuta -- the operative words are "traditional and functional". The data is overwhelming that this construct is optimal. Congrats on beating the odds.

I am so infuriated by your comments, I don't even know what to say at the moment. Single mothers (and fathers!) are just as capable of producing well adjusted offspring as anyone else. And "traditional families" are just as capable of producing sociopaths as anyone else. Parents are human and capable of doing well or poor by their children regardless of their circumstances, m'kay?!

703 Gus 802  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:13:23pm

re: #688 SanFranciscoZionist

San Francisco city politician, trailblazer as an openly gay man in politics, murdered along with the then mayor of SF in 1978. Now played by Sean Penn in biopic that Zombie believes will win Oscars tonight.

Or may already have. My TV is not on.

Shot by SF supervisor Dan White. Who's defense was made famous: The Twinkie Defense.

704 wolfie  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:13:28pm

re: #684 J.D.

The movie? Uh........Er, no.
But I saw their dresses!

705 David IV of Georgia  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:13:37pm

re: #640 wolfie

My personal favorite was Obama's statement that Iran was a "tiny country" that was "no threat to anyone."

Tiny countries are not problems if you are willing to use unconventional, unlimited warfare on them. Sane people won't go that far.

I think Obama left off the end of his sentence: Iran was a "tiny country" that was "no threat to anyone" like me.

706 pingjockey  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:13:43pm

re: #679 Honorary Yooper
Was a San Francisco city councilman. Openly gay. Gunned down by a nutbar who used the infamous Twinky defense. Too much sugar from the twinky was the reason for murder.

707 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:13:44pm

re: #699 J.D.


WARD!

Did you see her movie?
I only heard one person comment on it and they weren't enthusiastic about it...

No, I just think she's hot.

708 Jimmah  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:13:53pm

There should be a creationisthatemail.com. As far as I can tell there isn't one at the moment. Once word got round to creationists about the site, it would start generating it's own supply of material.

709 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:14:18pm

re: #658 Honorary Yooper

Who the hell is/was Harvey Milk? Never heard of him until they advertised the movie.

Yoop -

Harvey Milk was a San Fransisco City Councilman. He WAS Gay, He WAS a Democrat, He WAS the owner of a Small Business (A Photography Shop) and in his own way a Libertarian. He ALSO was killed for no good reason, along with the SF Mayor. The Political ultimate result is Sen. Dianne Feinstein.

-S-

710 wolfie  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:14:32pm

re: #690 Walter L. Newton

:O !

711 sillyquiet  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:14:48pm

re: #675 Bloodnok

Upding for Shaun of the Dead and Hot Fuzz.

By the power of GRAYSKULL.

712 Desert Dog  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:15:07pm

re: #674 brookly red

Q: what is a "promise keeper"? (I am in NYC & have no idea...)

Back when I actually went to Church, I was dragged to a Promise Keepers meeting in Tucson. It was not what I expected. That was 15 years ago, so maybe they are different now (are they even still around?). Anyway, it was basically a "pep rally" to be a good father using your Christian faith as a guide.....I would describe it as a totally positive experience. I am not very Religious, so some of it was lost to me, but the main message was be the best father you can be. If every father acted like the ideal that they espoused, our society would be much, much better off.

713 mich-again  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:15:18pm

re: #643 Thanos

Those of you talking of running off the whig party - that's exactly what DI wants you to do because it gives them more control. They don't care if the party is large or small as long as they have control.

I'm staying here until the 2012 candidate is selected to fight.

Absolutely. Like it or not the USA electoral laws favor a 2-Party system. Any doubters should read up on how the tie-breakers work when no Presidential candidate wins a majority of electoral votes.

And that is how it should be in my opinion. The 2-Party system forces the parties to attract from the center. The Multi-party system most Nations employ promotes pulling support from the edges.

And why should rational people have to leave the GOP because fanatics make so much noise. I say we fight for the party and make them go start their own 3rd Party.

714 Opilio  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:15:20pm

As long as we're citing Google hits:

Biden idiot: 787,000 hits
Palin idiot: 1,910,000 hits
McCain idiot: 3,730,000 hits
Obama idiot: 8,880,000 hits

Draw your own conclusions.

715 Iron Fist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:15:20pm

re: #441 Honorary Yooper

Which tells us that these people were never really who they portrayed themselves to be. One of the things I've enjoyed about the meetups I've been to is that it is quite refreshing to meet these people whom I've known through their posts, and, in general, found them to be the person I "knew" them to be. But the people attending those parties were really only a few posters when compared to all the people registered to post.

716 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:15:28pm

A quote from Hitchens' article: The GOP ticket's appalling contempt for science and learning.

...it didn't seem possible that things could go any lower or get any dumber. But they did last Friday, when, at a speech in Pittsburgh, Gov. Sarah Palin denounced wasteful expenditure on fruit-fly research, adding for good xenophobic and anti-elitist measure that some of this research took place "in Paris, France" and winding up with a folksy "I kid you not."

It was in 1933 that Thomas Hunt Morgan won a Nobel Prize for showing that genes are passed on by way of chromosomes. The experimental creature that he employed in the making of this great discovery was the Drosophila melanogaster, or fruit fly. Scientists of various sorts continue to find it a very useful resource, since it can be easily and plentifully "cultured" in a laboratory, has a very short generation time, and displays a great variety of mutation. This makes it useful in studying disease, and since Gov. Palin was in Pittsburgh to talk about her signature "issue" of disability and special needs, she might even have had some researcher tell her that there is a Drosophila-based center for research into autism at the University of North Carolina. The fruit fly can also be a menace to American agriculture, so any financing of research into its habits and mutations is money well-spent. It's especially ridiculous and unfortunate that the governor chose to make such a fool of herself in Pittsburgh, a great city that remade itself after the decline of coal and steel into a center of high-tech medical research.

This is right on the mark. I was extremely unhappy about this Palin populist nonsense too, and said so at the time.

717 USBeast  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:15:29pm

re: #678 venomX

Im still wondering what obama believes.....about anything.

Obama believes in Obama...and he's wrong.

718 UberInfidel67  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:15:42pm

re: #670 Walter L. Newton
Walter...he/she already admitted that they were only 18 years old. The booze remark was uncalled for. And just because he/she enjoys reading the articles at DI...you find something wrong with learning both sides of an argument and then forming an opinion?

719 J.D.  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:15:48pm

re: #704 wolfie

The movie? Uh........Er, no.
But I saw their dresses!

I'll watch the recap to catch them.

I haven't watched the Oscars in years.

720 avanti  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:16:06pm

re: #672 nyc redneck

oh, so you would rather have this commie who is determined to destroy our country? and making great progress in just one month.
bullshit.

Ah yes, the famous Commie naming of the POTUS again, that scores points on the fringes.

721 Hard Right  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:16:29pm

re: #709 Dr. Shalit

Yoop -

Harvey Milk was a San Fransisco City Councilman. He WAS Gay, He WAS a Democrat, He WAS the owner of a Small Business (A Photography Shop) and in his own way a Libertarian. He ALSO was killed for no good reason, along with the SF Mayor. The Political ultimate result is Sen. Dianne Feinstein.

-S-


Talk about unintended consequences.

722 Gus 802  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:16:44pm

re: #716 Charles

A quote from Hitchens' article: The GOP ticket's appalling contempt for science and learning.

This is right on the mark. I was extremely unhappy about this Palin populist nonsense too, and said so at the time.

Oh brudder. I remember that. Almost as dumb as when McCain brings up the bear/DNA research.

723 CynicalConservative  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:16:56pm

re: #719 J.D.

I'll watch the recap to catch them.

I haven't watched the Oscars in years.

I haven't cared about the oscars..... ever.

724 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:17:11pm

re: #712 Desert Dog

Back when I actually went to Church, I was dragged to a Promise Keepers meeting in Tucson. It was not what I expected. That was 15 years ago, so maybe they are different now (are they even still around?). Anyway, it was basically a "pep rally" to be a good father using your Christian faith as a guide.....I would describe it as a totally positive experience. I am not very Religious, so some of it was lost to me, but the main message was be the best father you can be. If every father acted like the ideal that they espoused, our society would be much, much better off.

There's also a Catholic iteration called St. Joseph's Covenant Keepers.

725 brookly red  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:17:23pm

re: #695 Walter L. Newton

Thank you.

726 BigPapa  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:17:31pm

re: #694 Osama Bin Porkchop

Several states have legislation that will authorize or enable the teaching of 'alternates to evolution' or allows ID to be 'taught' along side evolution.

You don't think that's pretty high up there?

727 J.D.  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:17:36pm

re: #707 Ward Cleaver

No, I just think she's hot.

Well I heard her dress was better...

728 wolfie  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:17:50pm

re: #714 Opilio

Opiliofacts™ !

729 lobo91  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:17:52pm

re: #709 Dr. Shalit

Yoop -

Harvey Milk was a San Fransisco City Councilman. He WAS Gay, He WAS a Democrat, He WAS the owner of a Small Business (A Photography Shop) and in his own way a Libertarian. He ALSO was killed for no good reason, along with the SF Mayor. The Political ultimate result is Sen. Dianne Feinstein.

-S-

I was wondering how long it would take for someone to mention that.

730 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:17:55pm

re: #718 UberInfidel67

Walter...he/she already admitted that they were only 18 years old. The booze remark was uncalled for. And just because he/she enjoys reading the articles at DI...you find something wrong with learning both sides of an argument and then forming an opinion?

Sorry, I didn't see the post about the age. But I already went around and around with this person up thread, only to be told, many posts later, oops, that's not what I meant to say.

Like I say, I apologize, it was getting fustrating, and I jumped.

731 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:18:00pm

re: #720 avanti

Ah yes, the famous Commie naming of the POTUS again, that scores points on the fringes.

explain how BO is not a commie...express yourself...give me an argument and some links...and hurry up

732 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:18:02pm
733 Desert Dog  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:18:28pm

re: #724 Ward Cleaver

There's also a Catholic iteration called St. Joseph's Covenant Keepers.

There is nothing I saw in that rally that would make me not recommend it to other fathers.....especially ones "not taking care of business"

734 theheat  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:18:31pm

What's worse, it isn't just these three governors. It's senators and people on other political levels that are supporting this horseshit, not to mention the religious pundits that support those individuals. It's the 'conservative' dumbasses on Fox news and talk radio, and groups like the Disco Institute.

If it were only these three assholes (Sanford, Pawlenty, Jindal), I wouldn't be as horrified, but these represent a fraction of the rightwing nutjobs that think their effed up theocracy is the answer, that we all need more God - Christianity - in every nook and cranny of our lives and schools. God for everyone, God 24/7, Jesus, the Bible, and then some more God.

They're handing the Democrats votes on a silver platter, and they're too delusional and self-righteous to take responsibility. More than that, it's a monumental effort to stir the so-called conservative pot, and bring more in their fold. Watch as more people you may have thought were reasonable join these invigorated sanctimonious sonsabitches, because more are coming. This is only the tip of the iceberg.

Epic fail.

735 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:19:02pm

re: #730 Walter L. Newton

Sorry, I didn't see the post about the age. But I already went around and around with this person up thread, only to be told, many posts later, oops, that's not what I meant to say.

Like I say, I apologize, it was getting fustrating, and I jumped.

so was I....if that means anything

736 spacejesus  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:19:18pm

the only way I will ever vote for a republican for president nest time is if newt gingrich runs

737 J.D.  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:19:28pm

Benjamin Button won for makeup.

I'd say that's fair.

738 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:19:33pm

re: #712 Desert Dog

Back when I actually went to Church, I was dragged to a Promise Keepers meeting in Tucson. It was not what I expected. That was 15 years ago, so maybe they are different now (are they even still around?). Anyway, it was basically a "pep rally" to be a good father using your Christian faith as a guide.....I would describe it as a totally positive experience. I am not very Religious, so some of it was lost to me, but the main message was be the best father you can be. If every father acted like the ideal that they espoused, our society would be much, much better off.

One of my ex-bosses was part of that. A good guy, I have no idea if he was typical of the group, but he certainly left me with a positive view of it.

Of course, he was also the originator of what I believe to be the best line in Christian parenting: "Timmy, 'the devil made me do it' is not an acceptable defense in this family."

739 Iron Fist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:19:36pm

re: #681 avanti

I'm asking a questiion, not trying to put words in your mouth, but are you really advocating euthanasia for children with Downs Syndrome? Because that is how it comes across. Sarah Palin had a choice, but she made the wrong one?

Is that what you really mean to convey?

740 Sheepdogess  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:19:39pm

re: #702 Sharmuta

Well, since you don't know what to say, answer this: What do you wish for your child -- a committed, loving, healthy heterosexual marriage with children, or would you prefer that they raise a child alone? Just askin' . . .

741 avanti  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:19:43pm

re: #686 rightwinger3

John McCain, I'm sure, thanks you. You are a great American avanti.

I had the pleasure of meeting him at the Naval Academy back in the 70's and was very impressed. He took the time to do a meet and greet for a hour or two with my small division. Like his politics or not, a true American hero.

742 jorline  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:20:06pm

re: #631 zombie

Somewhere online I just saw that the Oscars are happening now. Like, right now.

Is that true? Damn, am I clueless or what.

If so -- and I don't know how far along it is, nor do I know what has won what yet, if anything, but:

Has "Milk" finished winning every category it was nominated in yet?

I was over in the Castro District yesterday and the general consensus was: it's a done deal. "Milk" has a lock on all the Oscars.

Seems to be an accurate prediction, because in the hierarchy of PC topics, "gayness" trumps them all -- even "prostitute with a heart of gold" and "Nazis," both of which generally are hard to beat.

Original screenplay "Milk," written by Dustin Lance Black.

He told young people to be proud of being gay.
He looked forward to getting married to his partner.
Finally...Federal action will make his dream come true soon.

743 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:20:21pm

re: #725 brookly red

Thank you.

Wanna join? It's a fine Colorado organization, keeping man in his place and putting woman in theirs. That's what's behind it. The "christian" idea of the proper balance of the family. Man head, woman, helper, kids hired help.

I know that sound cruel, but that's been the word on the street here for many years.

744 USBeast  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:20:23pm

re: #723 CynicalConservative

I haven't cared about the oscars..... ever.

John Wayne won his only Oscar as Best Actor for True Grit. He did not win one for The Shootist. This was truly a miscarriage of movie justice.

745 RedSoxNation  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:20:35pm

Two Points:

First, I can understand the frustration that people have with Republican politicians who are ignorant on evolution. But let's not call the Democrats the "Science" party just yet. Democrats have tried to kill any debate on Global Warming by arguing that there was a "census" within the Scientific community that ended the debate. That "census" position is as anti-Science as anything the Creationist have put forth.

Second, are the Republicans really going to endure endless in-fighting about this topic. At some point, Republicans on both sides of this issue are just going to have to let it go and realize that it is not that important politically. I agree that Charles is right, and it is an interesting issue. But we cannot let it be the defining political issue for Republicans. In fact, Republicans have to stop answering this stupid question because most of them have no idea what they are talking about. And the media loves this question because they know it will make them look ignorant to Blue State America.

746 rightwinger3  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:20:37pm

re: #731 albusteve

explain how BO is not a commie...express yourself...give me an argument and some links...and hurry up

/Well, for starters he doesn't want to spread the weal...oh wait!

747 nyc redneck  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:20:58pm

re: #720 avanti

Ah yes, the famous Commie naming of the POTUS again, that scores points on the fringes.

b. hussein 'SPREAD THE WEALTH AROUND' obama.

748 cronus  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:21:08pm

re: #712 Desert Dog

Not sure if this was part of the stadium program, but they also held that God installed men as the head of the household and that they should have the final decision on all important matters and that wives should submit to that judgment. I think they're now defunct.

/Not sure why it never took off in the mainstream

749 Dragonwolf  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:21:08pm

re: #634 Charles

And the hate mail pours in from people who think they have the right to insult me at my own blog:

Wouldn't it be nice if this response to your verbal sword thrusts were the final death throes of an evolutionary dead-end?

750 pingjockey  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:21:21pm

Haven't watched the Oscars in years. Been watching NCIS, the race and Tora Tora Tora.

751 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:21:26pm

re: #720 avanti

Ah yes, the famous Commie naming of the POTUS again, that scores points on the fringes.

His father was a commie, his mother was a commie, and most of the friends who most influenced him (like Ayers) are commies. Just facts.

752 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:21:48pm

re: #736 spacejesus

the only way I will ever vote for a republican for president nest time is if newt gingrich runs

He may be a supporter of Intelligent Design.

753 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:21:54pm

re: #715 Iron Fist

I've also met a few of them as well, and they seem to be genuine. Of course, those folks have either no sockpuppets, or a sock that's meant solely for humorous purposes. But the folks who have five, ten, 15 socks, what the heck are they thinking?

754 brookly red  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:22:03pm

re: #712 Desert Dog
Thanks, that sounds kinda positive... I had never heard of them before.

755 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:22:10pm

re: #736 spacejesus

the only way I will ever vote for a republican for president nest time is if newt gingrich runs

Ok look, Space Junk is back. Let's have a down ding party, just cause he Jesus love us so.

756 Boxy_brown  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:22:17pm

re: #741 avanti

Like his politics or not, a true American hero.

Good thing you voted for someone with 20 years in the "Damn America" church versus 20 years in the USN...

757 UberInfidel67  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:22:22pm

re: #730 Walter L. Newton
No one should get into any argument without learning both sides. I give the kid props for wanting to know. Contrast that with those here who know nothing of the argument (myself included) but choose to piss and moan about it (NOT myself). Education is vital.

758 mich-again  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:22:38pm

re: #682 Iron Fist

That was one of the biggest reasons I held my nose and voted for McCain. Supreme Court Justices are too important to trust to a man like Obama.

That was precisely my reason for filling in the oval on the ballot for John McCain. I voted for Romney in the primary (in one of the few states Mitt won I might add). Heck, I wasn't even happy about that vote but at the time it was the best alternative. It reminded me of Hollywood Squares. I'll take Morey Amsterdam for the block..

759 cowbellallen  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:22:49pm

re: #670 Walter L. Newton

Yes you do. This is the second time you have asked that question. Your original comment "I enjoy reading the stories on the Discovery Institute and enjoy reading this website." certainly sounded like you found something positive in the DI.

How would you take you own statement? We are talking about the dishonesty of positions like taken by the the DI, and you say you enjoy reading their stories.

Put down the booze.

I enjoy reading them because they are ridiculous. I love watching videos of skateboarders racking themselves and people doing other stupid things, but I don't personally do that myself. I like reading stories about Obama because I educate myself, not because I like him.

I'm not old enough to drink and don't plan on it. From what I gather in this thread it makes you aggressive and seems to make it so you can't understand what people are saying.

760 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:22:56pm
761 Thanos  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:23:01pm

re: #743 Walter L. Newton

Wanna join? It's a fine Colorado organization, keeping man in his place and putting woman in theirs. That's what's behind it. The "christian" idea of the proper balance of the family. Man head, woman, helper, kids hired help.

I know that sound cruel, but that's been the word on the street here for many years.

It goes with a triad of governance... there's more to it than that. Family-Church- [what do you think is next?]

762 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:23:04pm

re: #747 nyc redneck

b. hussein 'SPREAD THE WEALTH AROUND' obama.

avanti...show us how BO is not a communist...put something out there

763 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:24:05pm

re: #759 cowbellallen

I enjoy reading them because they are ridiculous. I love watching videos of skateboarders racking themselves and people doing other stupid things, but I don't personally do that myself. I like reading stories about Obama because I educate myself, not because I like him.

I'm not old enough to drink and don't plan on it. From what I gather in this thread it makes you aggressive and seems to make it so you can't understand what people are saying.

I didn't realize some things and I apologized for jumping on you.

764 SpaceJesus  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:24:21pm

re: #752 Sharmuta

He may be a supporter of Intelligent Design.

newt echoes my sentiments that evolution should be taught in science class, and ID taught in an elective-type philosophy class.

I love this man.

765 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:24:36pm

re: #739 Iron Fist

I'm asking a questiion, not trying to put words in your mouth, but are you really advocating euthanasia for children with Downs Syndrome? Because that is how it comes across. Sarah Palin had a choice, but she made the wrong one?

Is that what you really mean to convey?

I've read several places that at least 90% of children with Down's are aborted.

766 Hard Right  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:24:47pm

re: #745 RedSoxNation

Two Points:

First, I can understand the frustration that people have with Republican politicians who are ignorant on evolution. But let's not call the Democrats the "Science" party just yet. Democrats have tried to kill any debate on Global Warming by arguing that there was a "census" within the Scientific community that ended the debate. That "census" position is as anti-Science as anything the Creationist have put forth.

Second, are the Republicans really going to endure endless in-fighting about this topic. At some point, Republicans on both sides of this issue are just going to have to let it go and realize that it is not that important politically. I agree that Charles is right, and it is an interesting issue. But we cannot let it be the defining political issue for Republicans. In fact, Republicans have to stop answering this stupid question because most of them have no idea what they are talking about. And the media loves this question because they know it will make them look ignorant to Blue State America.

Lets not forget their unbiased reasearch on firearms. Oh wait.... How about their research on on how oil can be cheaply relaced with other sources of energy... Ooops...

767 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:24:52pm

re: #750 pingjockey

Haven't watched the Oscars in years. Been watching NCIS, the race and Tora Tora Tora.

NCIS is good, IMHO. One of the better shows on TV right now.

768 avanti  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:25:17pm

re: #731 albusteve

explain how BO is not a commie...express yourself...give me an argument and some links...and hurry up

The Commie comment does not even deserve a reply, and is just as bad as the moon bats fascist comments about Bush. I have to believe that most on the right don't agree with that label, no matter how much they may disagree with his politics.

769 theheat  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:25:17pm

re: #745 RedSoxNation

At some point, Republicans on both sides of this issue are just going to have to let it go and realize that it is not that important politically. I agree that Charles is right, and it is an interesting issue. But we cannot let it be the defining political issue for Republicans. In fact, Republicans have to stop answering this stupid question because most of them have no idea what they are talking about. And the media loves this question because they know it will make them look ignorant to Blue State America.

I disagree. I want to know if their agendas include Creationist bullshit. And most Creationists argue they know exactly what they're talking about, and why, until they're blue in the face. In fact, they're pretty uppity about it.

770 hazzyday  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:25:25pm

I am skeptical of yec'rs being able to lead a community without some lieing and slippery slopeness going on. All three of these governors seem uninformed. And willing to make policy while being uninformed.

But is does fall back onto character. Are they any different then a Mormon, A catholic, an atheist?

771 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:25:44pm

avanti...how did BO become a true American hero?....give some examples

772 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:25:54pm

re: #720 avanti

Ah yes, the famous Commie naming of the POTUS again, that scores points on the fringes.

What the hell? How is Obama NOT a Commie?

773 venomX  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:25:57pm

re: #734 theheat

I'll ask again.Is it just republicans taking this position?What about democrats?Have any prominent dem's been asked this question?For the record ,evolution is obvious to me.Im not defending I.D. or creationism.

774 pingjockey  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:26:06pm

re: #767 Honorary Yooper
My better half gets a kick out of Abby, the girl that works in the lab.

775 Desert Dog  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:26:09pm

re: #748 cronus

Not sure if this was part of the stadium program, but they also held that God installed men as the head of the household and that they should have the final decision on all important matters and that wives should submit to that judgment. I think they're now defunct.

/Not sure why it never took off in the mainstream

That was not mentioned in the one I attended. The meeting was exclusively dedicated being a better person and a better father. But, that is basically the teachings of many Christians, the man is in charge and the woman must follow. Nothing new there

776 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:26:48pm

re: #768 avanti

The Commie comment does not even deserve a reply, and is just as bad as the moon bats fascist comments about Bush. I have to believe that most on the right don't agree with that label, no matter how much they may disagree with his politics.

it's a simple question...answer it...how is BO NOT a commie?

777 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:27:06pm

re: #761 Thanos

It goes with a triad of governance... there's more to it than that. Family-Church- [what do you think is next?]

Is this a test? I've left this stuff behind years ago. I know how to treat a woman/wife/partner whatever. I know what a treasure children are (although I don't have any) and I am adult enough not to need some rah-rah group to teach me the obvious.

It sometimes amazes me how some people need these crutches, when common sense and decency would suffice.

778 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:27:12pm

re: #740 Sheepdogess

Well, since you don't know what to say, answer this: What do you wish for your child -- a committed, loving, healthy heterosexual marriage with children, or would you prefer that they raise a child alone? Just askin' . . .

I would wish for any child of mine to be in a loving relationship where mutual respect is given and received- where they won't be judged by the likes of you should that relationship not be "heterosexual", and if they should find themselves a single parent, they would still have family who loved them unconditionally and with support.

That is what I would wish for my children.

Would you disown your child for being gay, having a child out of wedlock, or for getting divorced?

779 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:27:17pm

re: #635 cowbellallen

Man, do I just have some sort of problem communicating my views or something? The Discovery Institute is laughable.

Okay, gotcha. There are two types of enjoyment possible here; enjoy to laugh at, and enjoy because you agree. You didn't state which was your particular mode of enjoyment.

780 brookly red  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:27:21pm

re: #743 Walter L. Newton

Wanna join? It's a fine Colorado organization, keeping man in his place and putting woman in theirs. That's what's behind it. The "christian" idea of the proper balance of the family. Man head, woman, helper, kids hired help.

I know that sound cruel, but that's been the word on the street here for many years.

Nawww, I don't do organizations... I can be F'ed up all by my self.

781 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:27:23pm
782 Dragonwolf  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:27:26pm

re: #685 MandyManners

That would make an excellent rotating title.

Or possibly "Lizard Fascist Fiefdom"?

783 J.D.  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:27:32pm

re: #765 Ward Cleaver

I've read several places that at least 90% of children with Down's are aborted.

I wonder whether the test ever comes up wrong when it says the fetus is Down's. I know of one case where the test said it was not... and was wrong.

784 Thanos  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:27:37pm

re: #764 SpaceJesus

newt echoes my sentiments that evolution should be taught in science class, and ID taught in an elective-type philosophy class.

I love this man.

If they want to stick "ID" into comparative world religions, I"m fine with that, but with its own separate ID class I am not. That violates the constitution unless Harun Yahya, Shirley McClain, Tom Cruise, and the Reverend Moon get their own class as well.

785 pingjockey  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:27:48pm

re: #776 albusteve
Cause he doesn't have a map of the USSR on his head?!

786 lobo91  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:27:52pm

re: #762 albusteve

avanti...show us how BO is not a communist...put something out there

He's obviously a fiscal conservative, because he said so himself. He plans to cut the deficit in half by the first year of his second term.

Of course, that's after doubling it this year...

Hmm...maybe that was a bad example.

787 SpaceJesus  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:28:09pm

re: #755 Walter L. Newton

Ok look, Space Junk is back. Let's have a down ding party, just cause he Jesus love us so.

sometimes i see so much anger and persecution on this blog that it makes me look down from outer space and cry

788 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:28:30pm

re: #764 SpaceJesus

newt echoes my sentiments that evolution should be taught in science class, and ID taught in an elective-type philosophy class.

I love this man.

Do you have some links that show Newt doesn't want ID in science classes? Because I've been looking for them.

789 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:28:34pm

re: #758 mich-again

I voted for Romney in the primary as well. Felt he was the best candidate of the group. I was more than a little pissed off at the campaign I was waged by Huckabee against him. Voted for McCain in the general because I cannot trust a Democrat from Cook County who has been on the inside of the Machine.

790 JacksonTn  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:28:40pm

re: #768 avanti

The Commie comment does not even deserve a reply, and is just as bad as the moon bats fascist comments about Bush. I have to believe that most on the right don't agree with that label, no matter how much they may disagree with his politics.

Well, as a democrat until this past election ...count me in with the people who think he is ...so I am betting there are large amounts of people on the right who believe he is as close as you can get ...you will excuse ANYTHING Obama the fraud/empty suit/racist/marxist says or does ...and you know it ...you twirl things around and usually end your remarks with a slight twist to make it sound like you are not ....but having been a democrat for all my life ...I recognize what you are doing ...

791 EmmmieG  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:28:57pm

re: #787 SpaceJesus

You do have a lightening rod on your house? Just asking.

792 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:29:08pm

avanti...we are looking at you as a spokesman for BO....how is he heroic?...how is he NOT a communists...show us your cred

793 dkorta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:29:37pm

What really annoyed me about the whole Palin thing was how the media just went bananas trying to find ways to smear her. I've heard the Couric interview was heavily edited to make Palin look bad. I didn't watch it, and won't. I'm pissed off enough at the partisan media without throwing more fuel on the fire.

Remember that whole schtick about "Oh, look how old McCain is. He could die any minute and then we'd have (gasp) Palin!" As governor of Alaska she had more executive experience than Obama, McCain or Biden.
And she sure as hell could have chosen a vice-president better than Biden had she been placed in that position.

As far as Palin being a creationist, I could not care less as long as she keeps it to herself, and I've seen no indication that she proseltizes. As far as her Down Syndrome child goes, that again was her personal choice. I'm sure she didn't choose to have the baby to make a statement. That her choice makes a statement that makes people uncomfortable is beside the point.

It's really nobody's damn business how she runs her personal life. She seems to be someone who is comfortable in her own skin and that's fine
with me.

An Ivy League education as a prerequisite for public office is also totally unimportant as far as I'm concerned. Just take a look at the fool at the helm now if you want a vivid example of the potential inadequacies of an ivy league education.

Just for the record, I think if people want their kids to get religious training, they ought to take them to church on a regular basis. And if kids want to pray in school, they have every right to as long as Big Brother hasn't perfected a mind-reading machine.

794 SpaceJesus  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:29:41pm

re: #784 Thanos

If they want to stick "ID" into comparative world religions, I"m fine with that, but with its own separate ID class I am not. That violates the constitution unless Harun Yahya, Shirley McClain, Tom Cruise, and the Reverend Moon get their own class as well.


pretty sure newt just means a general philosophy class kids can take that includes ID in it somewhere, if the teacher even wants to of course.

795 OldLineTexan  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:29:47pm

re: #709 Dr. Shalit

Yoop -

Harvey Milk was a San Fransisco City Councilman. He WAS Gay, He WAS a Democrat, He WAS the owner of a Small Business (A Photography Shop) and in his own way a Libertarian. He ALSO was killed for no good reason, along with the SF Mayor. The Political ultimate result is Sen. Dianne Feinstein.

-S-

Who ended up carrying a gun while denying self-protection to others.

796 Iron Fist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:29:50pm

re: #753 Honorary Yooper

I really don't know. I have a couple of other accounts registered, basically because they are screen names or nicknames that I am known under elsewhere. Sometimes I recommend LGF to people that I know or believe would be receptive to it, and I wouldn't want someone else using a nick associated with me to make a wrong impression.

I've certainly never tried to hide an account from Charles, or post dialogs with myself, or any of the other abuses that are why socks are frowned upon. I was here before registration, when basically every time you mad a post you had a chance to be someone else. That led to some sillyness, like the time everyone went to posting under one letter nicks, but then the Left discovered the joys of nick-jacking, so that all had to come to an end.

797 theheat  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:30:05pm

re: #773 venomX

Not that I'm aware of, but I'm sure there are a few under the radar. Certainly, they aren't filling up conventions and airwaves with them, like the GOPs. The GOP has whole herds of Creationists, and they're only getting louder.

798 Boxy_brown  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:30:19pm

re: #720 avanti

"Ah yes, the famous Commie naming of the POTUS again,"

How about this:


Main Entry:
so·cial·ism Listen to the pronunciation of socialism
Pronunciation:
ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm
Function:
noun
Date:
1837

1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

799 Thanos  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:30:40pm

re: #777 Walter L. Newton

Is this a test? I've left this stuff behind years ago. I know how to treat a woman/wife/partner whatever. I know what a treasure children are (although I don't have any) and I am adult enough not to need some rah-rah group to teach me the obvious.

It sometimes amazes me how some people need these crutches, when common sense and decency would suffice.

No, no test Walter. It matches certain triadic tenets of reconstructionism, govern your family, your church, and your country by the bible.

800 Charles  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:30:52pm

Newt Gingrich has been trying to have it both ways for a long time -- working against science behind the scenes, but putting up a public front of being moderate.

801 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:30:55pm

re: #789 Honorary Yooper

I voted for Romney in the primary as well. Felt he was the best candidate of the group. I was more than a little pissed off at the campaign I that was waged by Huckabee against him. Voted for McCain in the general because I cannot trust a Democrat from Cook County who has been on the inside of the Machine.

PIMF.

802 jaunte  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:31:08pm

It would be hard to teach a class in ID, when there's nothing to it but a grab-bag collection of debunked criticisms of evolutionary biology.

803 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:31:12pm

re: #787 SpaceJesus

sometimes i see so much anger and persecution on this blog that it makes me look down from outer space and cry

... and then I realize that I am really looking up my own ass, and I cry even harder.

804 buzzsawmonkey[deleted]  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:31:19pm
805 MJ  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:31:47pm

re: #789 Honorary Yooper

I voted for Romney in the primary as well. Felt he was the best candidate of the group. I was more than a little pissed off at the campaign I was waged by Huckabee against him. Voted for McCain in the general because I cannot trust a Democrat from Cook County who has been on the inside of the Machine.

Are you sure you can trust a Democrat from Cook County who wasn't on the inside of the machine as well? Remember Alderman Larry Bloom?

806 gclaghorn  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:31:47pm

re: #803 Walter L. Newton

LOLOLOL!

807 SpaceJesus  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:31:57pm

re: #788 Sharmuta

Do you have some links that show Newt doesn't want ID in science classes? Because I've been looking for them.


Where do you come down on teaching intelligent design in schools? Do you think the ruling in the Dover, Pennsylvania, case was appropriate?

"I believe evolution should be taught as science, and intelligent design should be taught as philosophy." -Newt


it's from a discovery magazine interview.

808 Ward Cleaver  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:32:10pm

re: #783 J.D.

I wonder whether the test ever comes up wrong when it says the fetus is Down's. I know of one case where the test said it was not... and was wrong.

It's possible. The test itself (amniocentesis) can cause a spontaneous abortion. We had three girls after the age of 39, and thanks be to God, no birth defects. There are telltale signs of Down's in a sonogram, mainly looking at the spine.

809 Jimmah  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:32:21pm

re: #736 spacejesus

Hi spacejesus. My money's on Arnold Schwarzenegger.

[Link: i238.photobucket.com...]

[Link: i238.photobucket.com...]

810 Silvergirl  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:32:29pm

re: #545 avanti

If anything, he more qualified from the experience standpoint then the POTUS, not the case with Palin over Mccain. Potentially having Palin as POTUS scared the crap out of me on many levels.

What would have stopped Palin, had she become President (heartbeat away, all that) from choosing a VP that rounded out the ticket, gave it foreign policy experience, gravitas, etc. Wasn't Obama's objective to allay fears of his inexperience? Why couldn't Palin have done the same? Are you of the belief that Obama was/is fully qualified?

811 pink freud  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:32:30pm

re: #759 cowbellallen

I'm not old enough to drink and don't plan on it. From what I gather in this thread it makes you aggressive and seems to make it so you can't understand what people are saying.

Ouch. LOL

The young lizard bites.

812 sattv4u2  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:32:59pm

re: #787 SpaceJesus

sometimes i see so much anger and persecution on this blog that it makes me look down from outer space and cry

I had a sneaking suspicion you were a Space Shot!

813 lobo91  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:33:09pm

re: #767 Honorary Yooper

NCIS is good, IMHO. One of the better shows on TV right now.

It's a pretty good show, but not exactly a realistic depiction of what NCIS agents actually do on a daily basis.

I read somewhere that more rounds were fired by the actors in the first episode than have been fired by all NCIS agents in the agency's entire history combined.

I believe the actual total to date has been 4, with none of them being a fatal shot.

I still watch every week, though...

814 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:33:14pm

re: #805 MJ

Are you sure you can trust a Democrat from Cook County who wasn't on the inside of the machine as well? Remember Alderman Larry Bloom?

Good point. Glad I live in Will County.

815 Hard Right  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:33:25pm

re: #800 Charles

Newt Gingrich has been trying to have it both ways for a long time -- working against science behind the scenes, but putting up a public front of being moderate.

Just one of many reasons not to like him.

816 Sharmuta  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:33:27pm

re: #807 SpaceJesus

I come down on the side that says ID is not science and shouldn't be in science classes. If people want to believe it like a Theistic evolutionary ideal- they can knock themselves out, but it's not science.

817 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:33:46pm

re: #740 Sheepdogess

Well, since you don't know what to say, answer this: What do you wish for your child -- a committed, loving, healthy heterosexual marriage with children, or would you prefer that they raise a child alone? Just askin' . . .

I don't care if the marriage is heterosexual, but sure I hope for my kids a loving marriage if that's what they choose. However, I realize that might not come along on the first try. My grandmother raised two children alone. She was almost done raising them when the man she was supposed to marry came along. They were together until he died, and loved each other deeply. Perfect? No, being a single mom in the 1950s was damn hard. But she made the right decisions for herself and her children, and she did live happily ever after.

People get widowed, and people get divorced, and people decide to start families alone, and people just do the best they can...and good people come out of every kind of family there is.

818 J.D.  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:34:27pm

re: #808 Ward Cleaver

It's possible. The test itself (amniocentesis) can cause a spontaneous abortion. We had three girls after the age of 39, and thanks be to God, no birth defects. There are telltale signs of Down's in a sonogram, mainly looking at the spine.

Well congratulations! That's cutting it close!

819 Iron Fist  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:34:41pm

re: #765 Ward Cleaver

Downs and Taysachs are, as I understand it, two of the main reasons for late term abortion. Make no mistake about it. When a woman has an abortion so that she won't bring a handicapped person into the world, that is euthanasia. If I were handicapped, I think I'd take that pretty personally.

820 mich-again  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:34:48pm

re: #773 venomX

What about democrats?Have any prominent dem's been asked this question?

That is a good point. I'm guessing there are more than a few Dem politicians currently holding office who dread being confronted with that question. Maybe not because of what they personally believe, but because of the political fallout from having to answer it.

There are plenty of very ardent Bible reading Christians in the Democrat voting bloc who would side with the Disco Institute in this debate. Heck, I'd bet if they took a poll at TUCC in Chicago where Obama was a member for some 20 years that Evolution would lose out bigtime to Creationism.

Fact is, the Dems have plenty of anti-science voters as well. But their politicians are smart enough to sit on their hands and watch the fireworks.

821 pingjockey  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:34:58pm

re: #813 lobo91
Oh yeah. The had to spice it up. They make NCIS look like the damn CIA/MI5 combined.

822 jcw46  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:35:03pm

I have to say that although I'm not in agreement with these governors or any other proponents of requiring faith based teaching in public classrooms, the REPUBLICAN PARTY LOST THE LAST 2 ELECTIONS for reasons other than the creationists.

Sorry Charles but I believe your statement is a little hyperbolic. I can understand the sentiment but the party has far greater problems than creationist governors.

As I said above, it doesn't help any but the REPS lost due to their surrender to the toxic environment of compromise and pragmatism in Wash. D.C. They became the majority in '94 on the basis of fiscal conservatism; reduced taxes and cut spending. They proceeded to do far less than promised and in the last 6 years went in the opposite direction. ( they're wrong IMO).

In fact they may think that embracing creationism will help them to maintain some semblance of relevance to the conservative Christians in light of their abject failure to bring fiscal and social conservativism to D.C.

In no way is my intent to downplay the lack of judgement shown by Republicans embrace of creationism. I just don't think that's why the Republicans lost the House, Senate and Presidency within a space of 2 years.

823 Noam Sayin'  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:35:37pm

IMDB has a running tally of the Oscars, if anyone's curious enough:


Academy Awards, USA: 2009
Just Announced...
Best Achievement in Sound
Winner: Slumdog Millionaire (2008) - Ian Tapp, Richard Pryke, Resul Pookutty

Best Achievement in Sound Editing
Winner: The Dark Knight (2008) - Richard King
Best Achievement in Visual Effects
Winner: The Curious Case of Benjamin Button (2008) - Eric Barba, Steve Preeg, Burt Dalton, Craig Barron
Best Documentary, Short Subjects
Winner: Smile Pinki (2008) - Megan Mylan
Best Documentary, Features
Winner: Man on Wire (2008) - James Marsh, Simon Chinn
Best Performance by an Actor in a Supporting Role
Winner: Heath Ledger for The Dark Knight (2008)
Best Short Film, Live Action
Winner: Spielzeugland (2007) - Jochen Alexander Freydank
Best Achievement in Cinematography
Winner: Slumdog Millionaire (2008) - Anthony Dod Mantle
Best Achievement in Makeup
Winner: The Curious Case of Benjamin Button (2008) - Greg Cannom
Best Achievement in Costume Design
Winner: The Duchess (2008) - Michael O'Connor
Best Achievement in Art Direction
Winner: The Curious Case of Benjamin Button (2008) - Donald Graham Burt, Victor J. Zolfo
Best Short Film, Animated
Winner: Maison en petits cubes, La (2008) - Kunio Katô
Best Animated Feature Film of the Year
Winner: WALL·E (2008) - Andrew Stanton
Best Writing, Screenplay Based on Material Previously Produced or Published
Winner: Slumdog Millionaire (2008) - Simon Beaufoy
Best Writing, Screenplay Written Directly for the Screen
Winner: Milk (2008/I) - Dustin Lance Black
Best Performance by an Actress in a Supporting Role
Winner: Penélope Cruz for Vicky Cristina Barcelona (2008)
Best Motion Picture of the Year
Not yet announced
Best Performance by an Actor in a Leading Role
Not yet announced
Best Performance by an Actress in a Leading Role
Not yet announced
Best Achievement in Directing
Not yet announced
Best Achievement in Editing
Not yet announced
Best Achievement in Music Written for Motion Pictures, Original Score
Not yet announced
Best Achievement in Music Written for Motion Pictures, Original Song
Not yet announced
Best Foreign Language Film of the Year
Not yet announced

Not really concerned about it, myself. I was just looking up a movie over there, and I know some here are movie buffs.

824 albusteve  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:35:50pm

avanti...help decsribe BOs experience so we can understand him better....how did BO win your heroism?...what gives?

825 Salamantis  Sun, Feb 22, 2009 7:36:18pm

re: #694 Osama Bin Porkchop

This whole "creationism vs. evolution" argument, does absolutely nothing for me when it comes to politics. Bigger fish to fry, in terms of issues, at least to me....

If it would stay out of politics, it wouldn't be an issue here. But th