If the US Has a ‘Health Czar,’ Who Are the Serfs?

Health • Views: 4,510

In The Examiner, Dr. Paul Hsieh asks a good question: Why does America need a “health czar?”

The concept of a health czar follows naturally from the welfare statists’ premise that government should guarantee health care to all Americans. Whenever the government attempts to guarantee universal medical care, it must also control its costs. Hence, someone must determine how health care dollars may be spent.

The Obama administration would control costs by creating a new Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research to determine which treatments are deemed most effective and thus eligible to be paid for by government. These decisions would be based on statistical averages that cannot take into account specific facts of individual patients.

Yet good physicians must consider precisely these specifics when treating their patients. If you are suffering from abdominal pain due to gallstones, who should decide whether medication or surgery would be more effective for you?

The doctor who has felt your abdomen, listened to your heartbeat, and knows your drug allergies? Or the bureaucrat who got his job by telling the right joke to the right person at the right Washington cocktail party?

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517 comments
1 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:32:51am

Quick answer, we are the serfs.

2 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:33:11am

All your health care decisions tsar belong to us!

3 capitalist piglet  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:33:45am

I’m generally uncomfortable with the idea of the government making life and death decisions about individual Americans.

/understatement

4 Lively  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:34:01am

If Medicare is failing because of lack of dollars, why do we want to nationalize the entire industry.

5 Wishing  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:34:14am

F.C.C.C.E.R. lol.

6 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:34:20am

re: #4 Lively

If Medicare is failing because of lack of dollars, why do we want to nationalize the entire industry.

Because the Democrats want to spread the failure around.

7 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:34:49am

Relax, sweetheart.

He wrote “Serfs,” not “Serbs.”

8 zombie  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:35:10am

The next four years of the Obama Administration will be one long Serfing Safari.

9 joncelli  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:35:26am

Here comes rationing — and it’s the old and the weak who will suffer.

10 capitalist piglet  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:35:35am

re: #8 zombie

The next four years of the Obama Administration will be one long Serfing Safari.

Serf City!

11 LionofDixon  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:35:50am

Hell, why not just call him Der Healthen Fuhrer…….

12 tackle  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:35:59am

From the article:

The fundamental problem with universal health care is the faulty premise that health care is a right. Health care is a need, not a right. Rights are freedoms of action (such as the right to free speech), not automatic claims on goods or services that must be produced by others.


This is a great clarification on what “rights” are.

13 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:36:20am

I just wish we could demand that all politicians and their families must use the same health care system as the rest of us, with their records public so we can be sure they aren’t getting special care.

14 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:36:30am

re: #8 zombie

The next four years of the Obama Administration will be one long Serfing Safari.

*GROAN*

/kudos

15 Duke6855  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:36:35am

Dr. Hsieh also has a blog/website: WeStandFIRM.org - thanks for posting this, Charles.

16 The Optimist  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:36:40am
Or the bureaucrat who got his job by telling the right joke to the right person at the right Washington cocktail party?

You don’t know how right is that statement. Kissing up and loyalty outrank ability and perseverance in most Federal civilian jobs. I know. Been there, done that.

17 Wishing  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:36:58am

re: #12 tackle

From the article:


This is a great clarification on what “rights” are.

100 updings! Get the rights part correct and these idiotic programs of the Zero’s go away.

18 Racer X  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:37:00am

I’m gonna need healthcare soon. Frickin’ Obama raises my blood pressure higher every day.

19 Silhouette  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:37:11am

So, if the Drug Czar’s job is to eliminate drugs, then the Health Czar’s job to eliminate….?

20 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:37:17am
21 zombie  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:37:23am

As Hugo Chavez can tell you, converting a once-prosperous nation into a socialist hellhole takes time, and doesn’t happen overnight.

Actually, he should be taking lessons from Obama. Hugo is in the slow lane by comparison.

22 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:37:51am
Whenever the government attempts to guarantee universal medical care, it must also control its costs.

There’s some Hope for ya. Hope you don’t get sick.

23 thedopefishlives  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:37:52am

The bureaucrat works in the federal government. Any federal employee automatically knows what is best for you, regardless of what the whack-jobs on the Religious Right might say. Therefore, it is obvious that the answer to this question is NOT what simple logic would dictate, because simple logic is too simple for such a weighty issue as the lives of American taxpayers.

/I’d close with a sarc tag, but there are people who ACTUALLY THINK LIKE THIS.

24 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:37:57am

To a bureaucrat, the citizen is merely a peasant distraction.

25 Peacekeeper  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:38:07am

All your gallstones are belong to us!

26 so.cal.swede  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:38:22am

Funny. In Sweden, right now, the government has all the hospitals agree to this “guarantee of service” which means when you seek non-emergency care, you must be guaranteed to see a doctor within 7 days. And if the doctor sees it is needed, he will refer you to a specialist, and you must be seen within 90 days. Then if treatment is needed, you must be treated within 90 days.

Nice, but, the hospitals can’t meet that arrangement, so hospitals are quietly asking their doctors not to issue referrals - that way they get out of the 7-90-90 agreement, and the heavy fines imposed on the hospitals if they do not fill them.

27 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:38:44am

re: #10 capitalist piglet

Serf City!

Hey little Serfer Girl!

28 seekeroftruth  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:38:49am

This is all being hidden in these spending bills that no one is reading…

This week’s budget framework will provide hints about numerous critical health matters: Will the money set aside for a new proposal on the uninsured be in the neighborhood of $100 billion (as the budgeters want), or more like $300 billion (as Daschle’s team had been quietly sketching)?

Will the administration signal its intent to completely dismantle Medicare Advantage, the program by which roughly one-fifth of seniors choose to get their public health benefit via a private insurance plan rather than through traditional government-run Medicare?

How much will they claim would be saved if the government moved further into the realm of price-setting (and innovation-retarding) for pharmaceuticals?

Will the president propose a Federal Health Board, modeled on the Federal Reserve Bank, to evaluate the comparative effectiveness of different drugs, devices and procedures — and then limit seniors’ access to costlier interventions?


ibdeditorials.com

29 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:39:08am

So if I fail to go to get my 3000 mile checkup will my warranty expire?

30 transient  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:39:09am

I’ve been on a restricted diet, but last week I blew it and had half a cheesecake all by myself. Now I see no point in going back on the diet. What’s a few more calories?

/Or a few more billion dollars?

31 jcm  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:39:15am

You are gonna’ believe the cost of free health care!

32 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:39:24am

re: #21 zombie

As Hugo Chavez can tell you, converting a once-prosperous nation into a socialist hellhole takes time, and doesn’t happen overnight.

Actually, he should be taking lessons from Obama. Hugo is in the slow lane by comparison.

When do I get my red shirt? Does it come with the unicorn?

33 acwgusa  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:39:29am

As I have said many times before, speaking as a Medi-Cal employee ( I work IT for them now) DO WHATEVER YOU CAN to oppose government control of health care.

34 Lively  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:39:30am

re: #13 Kosh’s Shadow

I just wish we could demand that all politicians and their families must use the same health care system as the rest of us, with their records public so we can be sure they aren’t getting special care.

Excellent idea….but politiicians will still get better treatment. Kinda like the difference between the rock star who used drugs all his life and now wants a new liver and the commoner who needs a liver but never abused his body. Rock star gets it first.

35 zombie  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:39:49am

re: #9 joncelli

Here comes rationing — and it’s the old and the weak who will suffer.

The old and the weak? Hell, they were just a drag on the system! Don’t you remember — starting in 2011, everyone over 30 had to make an appointment at a Euthanasia Depot.

Now, we have a brave new world.

36 opnion  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:39:51am

This thing is going to be maned by the same type of people that toss your grannies meds at the airport & Deliver your mail to your neighbor.
They will be clerks at terminals with federal guidelines that will have protocols for treatment based on age, sex, diagnosis.
The problem is that I see no provision to factor in past medical history.
Care will be rationed & people will suffer.

37 MJ  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:39:56am

Maybe Obama sees us as Smurfs?

38 capitalist piglet  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:39:58am

re: #27 Ward Cleaver

Hey little Serfer Girl!

Let’s go serfin’ now, everybody’s learnin’ how…

39 Peacekeeper  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:40:00am

Sex changes? COVERED!
Dialysis for seniors? Not so much!

40 The Optimist  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:40:18am

re: #21 zombie

As Hugo Chavez can tell you, converting a once-prosperous nation into a socialist hellhole takes time, and doesn’t happen overnight.

Actually, he should be taking lessons from Obama. Hugo is in the slow lane by comparison.

Maybe Obama has a hot line to Fidel Castro just like Hugo Chavez. Go to www.therealcuba.com and see how the worst health care system in the hemisphere treats its doctors and patients (except for Fidel, of course)

41 acwgusa  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:40:22am

Obama, you feckless nitwit, statistical averages KILL people!

42 Silhouette  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:40:27am

re: #26 so.cal.swede

And their illustrious “goal” that they cannot even meet is for treatment withing 6 months. 6 months?!

43 Last Mohican  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:40:30am

We’ll all suffer from this. And the effort to control costs by having a central authority that decides which tests and treatments are appropriate, and therefore eligible for government reimbursement, will have the opposite effect. Previous attempts at managed care have demonstrated this, and it will be even worse when the government is more actively involved.

The government will have to hire huge staffs of people without medical expertise, who sit in offices, without seeing patients, and challenge what trained physicians do. The physicians will have hire staffs of people to respond to these challenges. All those dollars, and all that time, could have been invested in patient care instead of providing jobs for a new class of bureaucrats.

44 Racer X  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:40:36am

Hey I have a great idea. Lets purchase something that is really really overpriced, incurring debt we will never be able to pay off, hoping that our kids will help with the payments.

A house in California?

Nope.

This is the stimulus package.

These people never learn.

45 zelnaga  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:40:42am

The doctor who has felt your abdomen, listened to your heartbeat, and knows your drug allergies? Or the bureaucrat who got his job by telling the right joke to the right person at the right Washington cocktail party?

Isn’t that how it is, right now, with insurance companies? Instead of being the Obama administration bureaucrat it’s the Blue Cross Blue Shield bureaucrat. Different employer, same MO.

46 meeshlr  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:40:47am

Evidence based medicine can be quite useful but it does have limitations and I doubt that a politician would recognize and respect those limitations. You don’t want to turn over your health to the government.

I live in Canada and that happens all too often. We currently have a neurosurgeon in the city who is trained in a technique to treat aneurysms. The health district won’t let him. So, even when a doctor decides that a patient needs that treatment and the evidence supports the decision and the neurosurgeon is willing and able to perform the procedure, the patient gets the second best option because the government decides.

We could lose this surgeon if he decides to move to a different health region where he’s not constrained by bureaucrats.

47 yma o hyd  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:40:49am

re: #13 Kosh’s Shadow

I just wish we could demand that all politicians and their families must use the same health care system as the rest of us, with their records public so we can be sure they aren’t getting special care.

Yep - and they have to go on the same waiting lists as us serfs: no preferential treatments!

48 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:40:51am
Why does America need a “health czar?”

To give orders to the Surgeon General.

49 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:41:21am

I wanna be the Nutrition Pope.

50 vxbush  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:41:24am

So are calling this new council F.U.C.[k].E.R, right?

51 Peacekeeper  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:41:25am

Can you imagine how Rush Limbaugh would have been treated under a gubmint system?

52 abolitionist  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:41:31am

re: #7 Ben Hur

Relax, sweetheart.

He wrote “Serfs,” not “Serbs.”

Same root meaning.

53 coquimbojoe  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:41:32am

The fact that we are getting a Czar explains why Obama is trying to make our country into a Potemkin village.

54 joncelli  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:41:35am

The Russian primary chronicle predicted this lo these many centuries ago:

860-62. The tributaries of the Varangians conservatives drove them back beyond the sea and, refusing them further tribute, set out to govern themselves. There was no law among them, but tribe rose against tribe. Discord High health care costs thus ensured, and they began to war against each other. They said to themselves, “Let us seek a prince who may rule over us and judge us according to the Law the principles of Marxism.”
55 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:41:35am

re: #35 zombie

The old and the weak? Hell, they were just a drag on the system! Don’t you remember — starting in 2011, everyone over 30 had to make an appointment at a Euthanasia Depot.

Now, we have a brave new world.

Logan’s Run.

/it was filmed here in dallas

56 acwgusa  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:41:47am

re: #45 zelnaga

The doctor who has felt your abdomen, listened to your heartbeat, and knows your drug allergies? Or the bureaucrat who got his job by telling the right joke to the right person at the right Washington cocktail party?

Isn’t that how it is, right now, with insurance companies? Instead of being the Obama administration bureaucrat it’s the Blue Cross Blue Shield bureaucrat. Different employer, same MO.

There is a better chance of wrangling specialized care from a private HMO then there is from the government.

57 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:41:52am
58 zombie  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:42:02am

re: #26 so.cal.swede

Funny. In Sweden, right now, the government has all the hospitals agree to this “guarantee of service” which means when you seek non-emergency care, you must be guaranteed to see a doctor within 7 days. And if the doctor sees it is needed, he will refer you to a specialist, and you must be seen within 90 days. Then if treatment is needed, you must be treated within 90 days.

Nice, but, the hospitals can’t meet that arrangement, so hospitals are quietly asking their doctors not to issue referrals - that way they get out of the 7-90-90 agreement, and the heavy fines imposed on the hospitals if they do not fill them.

Reality always trumps socialist fantasy. Thanks for the reality check.

59 martinsmithy  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:42:05am

I don’t think a health care czar will solve any of our nation’s health care issues.

But there are significant health care issues in this nation of ours - because our current system is malfunctioning. In every study I’ve heard about, every other developed nation in the world has a health care system that beats ours in accessibility, cost, and quality for all areas of medicine with the notable exception of unusual or cutting-edge medical treatments.

Personally, I don’t think a person should die or be chronically ill because he or she cannot afford health care.

I don’t like the idea of my hospital and other medical bills being needlessly inflated to pay for the emergency room visits that the uninsured make because they don’t have access to any other health care.

And one thought for everyone - doesn’t our current employer-based health care system put a huge cost burden on our nation’s employers - a burden that prevents them from creating more jobs? If health insurance became a joint responsibility of individuals and government, this burden would be lifted. Would GM still be going bankrupt if it didn’t have the huge burden of “legacy costs” to pay for the health insurance of its retirees?

Just some thoughts for everyone. Our current health care system is dysfunctional and suboptimal. I don’t know that anything Obama proposes will fix that, but putting our heads in the sand isn’t the answer either.

60 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:42:06am

re: #49 Ringo the Gringo

I wanna be the Nutrition Pope.

I want to be… King of the Popes!

/sctv

61 Peacekeeper  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:42:17am

They would have euthanised him. After giving all his records to the newspapers.

62 Lincolntf  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:42:23am

Why, this makes perfect sense. We all know the Government is better at these things than the dumb citizens. That’s why public beaches are so much nicer than private ones, public schools are far more efficient than private schools and public housing beats the hell out of private home ownership.
I’m looking forward to standing in line for hours to get my health-care request form stamped by some public employees union member (unless they’re on strike that day, of course) in order to apply for hospitalization. Plus, the 3 week processing period should give me time to heal up or die anyway, so that’ll cut down on the crowding.

63 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:42:52am

re: #12 tackle

From the article:


This is a great clarification on what “rights” are.

The only problem is that in this brave new world of ours “Rights” are automatic claims on goods or services that must be produced by others.

64 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:42:52am

re: #57 buzzsawmonkey

Or if?

“You can always learn sign language, Mr. Limbaugh.”

65 tackle  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:42:55am

re: #17 Wishing

He goes on to say that even under socialism, healthcare never is truly a right. It’s just another “privilege dispensed at the discretion of bureaucrats”.

Imagine if we looked at everything like this. Instead of saying, “I have a right to home ownership or healthcare or a job”, we would be asking the government for the privilege of having such an asset. It’s a recipe for corruption.

66 pat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:43:23am

It is not that America needs a health Czar, it is Obama needs the control. He is an egomaniac.

67 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:43:34am

re: #63 Creeping Eruption

The only problem is that in this brave new world of ours “Rights” are automatic claims on goods or services that must be produced by others.

My right to what you’ve got.

68 capitalist piglet  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:43:35am

re: #49 Ringo the Gringo

I wanna be the Nutrition Pope.

1. Are you a Democrat? If “yes”, move to question two.

2. Have you paid your taxes? If “no”, move to question three.

3. When can you start?

69 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:43:44am

re: #38 capitalist piglet

Let’s go serfin’ now, everybody’s learnin’ how…

Don’t peon the beach.

70 Peacekeeper  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:43:48am

Obama wants to spread the health around…

71 ilzito guacamolito  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:44:03am

re: #64 Ward Cleaver

“You can always learn sign language, Mr. Limbaugh.”

Problem solved. No Fairness Doctrine needed.

72 xtraBilly  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:44:12am

The Czar title is so overplayed. Health Commissar would be more fitting.

73 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:44:14am
74 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:44:24am

A lady goes to the doctor and says, “I’m shrinking, every day I’m an inch shorter. Can you help me?”.

The doctor says, “Yes, I can help you…but you’ll have to be a little patient for a while”.

75 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:44:37am

re: #56 acwgusa

There is a better chance of wrangling specialized care from a private HMO then there is from the government.

Worse than that. If the government runs things you won’t even have the option of paying for yourself.

76 transient  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:44:37am

The problems with our current system are many and varied, but government control is certainly not the answer. Given the rate of change, it’s often difficult for doctors to keep up in their fields…how can bureaucrats possibly keep up with constant changes in standards of care?

77 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:44:57am
The concept of a health czar follows naturally from the welfare statists’ premise that government should guarantee health care to all Americans. Whenever the government attempts to guarantee universal medical care, it must also control its costs. Hence, someone must determine how health care dollars may be spent.

This is the scary part.

The natural progression will be something akin to mandatory fat camps.

“You are too (fill in blank) and too much a burden on the system. Please report to camp.”

Also, there will never be tax cuts again. The left will move on from screaming “They are trying to take away education!” to “They are trying to take away your health care.”

And what’s with this “Universal” BS. The US is not the world. It’s NATIONAL health care. As part of NATIONAL socialism.

Unless they really mean universal and you will end up paying for Hamas dental care.

78 Lazarus  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:45:01am

Charles, thanks very much for posting this.

79 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:45:12am

re: #73 buzzsawmonkey

Who would have thought we needed so many czars?
They pop out like clowns from a small clown car.

A Czar Car?

80 Silhouette  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:45:15am

re: #52 abolitionist

Same root meaning.

Yeah, right. Next you’ll be saying there is a connection between slave and Slavic.

81 LionOfDixon  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:45:18am

Today in the news, President Obama announced a the creation of a new cabinet level position. The new job, which will be filled with a washington insider, is described by the administration as a “Czar to oversee the operation of Frank Bailey’s Auto Repair Shop, located at 4522 Oak St. in Wichita, Kansas. “We have been looking at the situation at Bailey’s for quite some time, and thought it would be a good idea to step in and run the business before Frank ran it into the ground” Obama said at a press conference. Bailey could not be reached for comment.

82 zombie  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:45:32am

re: #49 Ringo the Gringo

I wanna be the Nutrition Pope.

Only if I get to be the Chancellor of Brunch.

83 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:45:48am
84 yma o hyd  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:46:05am

re: #26 so.cal.swede

Funny. In Sweden, right now, the government has all the hospitals agree to this “guarantee of service” which means when you seek non-emergency care, you must be guaranteed to see a doctor within 7 days. And if the doctor sees it is needed, he will refer you to a specialist, and you must be seen within 90 days. Then if treatment is needed, you must be treated within 90 days.

Nice, but, the hospitals can’t meet that arrangement, so hospitals are quietly asking their doctors not to issue referrals - that way they get out of the 7-90-90 agreement, and the heavy fines imposed on the hospitals if they do not fill them.

Heh. Thats pretty civilised!
Here, you got to make an appointment with your GP - takes usually two weeks. Then he refers you - goes not to another doctor but to admin. They take two weeks to send you a letter that they are thinking of you … then you get an appointment, within six weeks … then you get onto another waiting list, for a ‘procedure’. six weeks if you’re lucky - usually that gts cancelled, and you go to the bottom of the list …
People here are waiting for a hip transplant, for up to 18 months …
And lets not even start on the shenanigans the admin people get up to to get their statistics right, enver mind if its in the interest of the patients, never mind if the doctor would have something done right now.

‘Best system in the world’ - ha!

85 opnion  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:46:06am

If Obama get’s his healthcare model in place, it will effect life insurance.
Actuaries will have to factor in that you will not live as long and therefore premiums on new issue will be adjusted.

86 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:46:13am

I feel sorry for the people who started medical school already. They just don’t realize that when they’re getting paid a mailman’s wages to work as a government doctor their odds of ever paying off their med school debts are about even with us ever being able to pay back the porkulus debt.

87 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:46:15am

The Bolsheviks knew how to deal with Czars!

/blam!

88 Peacekeeper  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:46:37am

The natural progression will be something akin to mandatory fat camps.

Starvation? The natural way to lose weight.

89 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:46:43am

re: #83 buzzsawmonkey

Corzine for Car Czar! Car Czar Corzine!

Seat belts?!? Who needs seat belts?

90 Golem Akbar  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:46:46am

This makes total sense. Look, we have a transportation czar, an education czar, and now we can have an equally useful health czar. [did I forget my ////?]

91 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:46:51am

re: #41 acwgusa

Obama, you feckless nitwit, statistical averages KILL people!

Because, on the average, we all die.

92 Sabnen  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:46:53am

Imagine your local Department of Motor Vehicles office. Tile floor, lime-green wall paint, turquoise blue fiberglass chairs, bullet-proof glass in front of the clerks (who, by the way, have to FAIL the “common-sense” and “courtesy” sections of a personality test to become a clerk).

This is the starter model they will use to dish out your Health Care.

93 Wishing  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:46:54am

Many of our health care issues and increasing health care costs are the result of over-use of the medical system by people who cannot pay for medical care, and who never intended to. And I don’t know how to fix that, and remain the compassionate nation that we are.

94 Lively  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:47:12am

re: #86 Lizard by the Bay

I feel sorry for the people who started medical school already. They just don’t realize that when they’re getting paid a mailman’s wages to work as a government doctor their odds of ever paying off their med school debts are about even with us ever being able to pay back the porkulus debt.

Don’t forget. Obama forgives debt.

95 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:47:13am

I’m sure today’s students think that “Czar” is an English word.

96 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:47:21am

re: #88 Peacekeeper

The natural progression will be something akin to mandatory fat camps.

Starvation? The natural way to lose weight.

Fat/Joy Camp.

97 ladycatnip  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:47:30am

#36 opnion

The problem is that I see no provision to factor in past medical history. Care will be rationed & people will suffer.

Silly you. There is no past. What’s past is past - it’s not important and has no bearing on the present or the future. What is important is what our leader tells us is important.

People will suffer? No! Our fearless czar has our well-being as his most important priority. Rationing is caring, rationing is compassionate.

98 LionOfDixon  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:47:44am

Great leadership from a former hard drug addict that can’t even muster the willpower to quit smoking.

99 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:47:48am

And why Czar?

Why not a Czarina?

Sexists.

100 capitalist piglet  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:47:49am

re: #82 zombie

Only if I get to be the Chancellor of Brunch.

I want to be Czar of Which Tunes People Can Listen To.

101 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:47:59am

re: #95 Ben Hur

I’m sure today’s students think that “Czar” is an English word.

It’s short for biczar, dude!

102 tackle  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:48:04am

And by the way, why do we have to do have to use silly terms like “czar”? A few years back, our state government appointed a “porn czar”, and she was this naive, innocent-looking woman who definitely got her share of criticism.

103 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:48:07am

re: #87 Ward Cleaver

The Bolsheviks knew how to deal with Czars!

/blam!

Problem is, it’s the Bolsheviks who want to place Czars in various capacities.

104 Peacekeeper  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:48:07am

re: #86 Lizard by the Bay

I feel sorry for the people who started medical school already. They just don’t realize that when they’re getting paid a mailman’s wages to work as a government doctor their odds of ever paying off their med school debts are about even with us ever being able to pay back the porkulus debt.

I feel sorry for the patients of Doctors who only made it through med school because of government AA quotas.

105 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:48:12am

re: #83 buzzsawmonkey

Corzine for Car Czar! Car Czar Corzine!

We could watch crazy car czar Corzine crash his czar car.

106 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:48:19am

re: #3 capitalist piglet

I’m generally uncomfortable with the idea of the government making life and death decisions about individual Americans.

Just to play devil’s advocate for a moment, does that mean you oppose government’s use of the military as well (surely that falls under the category of “government making life or death decisions about Americans”)?

107 bulwrk  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:48:21am

re: #59 martinsmithy

In every study I’ve heard about, every other developed nation in the world has a health care system that beats ours in accessibility, cost, and quality for all areas of medicine


That’s certainly not what I have read.

108 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:48:25am
109 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:48:55am

re: #101 Ward Cleaver

It’s short for biczar, dude!


Dude! Online car rentals!

110 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:49:08am

re: #82 zombie

Only if I get to be the Chancellor of Brunch.

*raises hand for Minister of Snacks*

111 zelnaga  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:49:18am

re: #45 zelnaga

The doctor who has felt your abdomen, listened to your heartbeat, and knows your drug allergies? Or the bureaucrat who got his job by telling the right joke to the right person at the right Washington cocktail party?

Isn’t that how it is, right now, with insurance companies? Instead of being the Obama administration bureaucrat it’s the Blue Cross Blue Shield bureaucrat. Different employer, same MO.

Actually, I guess the issue of competition. If one organization controls it all there’s not as much incentive to provide good service. ie. the usual problems associated with a monopoly. That said, does government guaranteed health insurance necessarily mean that private insurance won’t work? UPS and FedEx seem to compete just fine with the government guaranteed USPS.

112 opnion  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:49:20am

re: #97 ladycatnip

#36 opnion


Silly you. There is no past. What’s past is past - it’s not important and has no bearing on the present or the future. What is important is what our leader tells us is important.

People will suffer? No! Our fearless czar has our well-being as his most important priority. Rationing is caring, rationing is compassionate.

I feel like a silly goose! Thank you for the correction. Please to not report me to my local Obama block club.

113 Ron Shaw  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:49:27am

Easy answer for Obama and his ilk is the czar and government…scary, Orwellian “1984” chickens coming home to roost!

114 Lively  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:49:32am

re: #106 Lizard by the Bay

Just to play devil’s advocate for a moment, does that mean you oppose government’s use of the military as well (surely that falls under the category of “government making life or death decisions about Americans”)?

People in the military volunteer to give their life for our country.

/true heroes

115 jcm  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:49:53am

re: #35 zombie

The old and the weak? Hell, they were just a drag on the system! Don’t you remember — starting in 2011, everyone over 30 had to make an appointment at a Euthanasia Depot.

Now, we have a brave new world.

Oregon Patients Denied Chemo, Offered Assisted Suicide

When Barbara Wagner’s lung cancer returned, the Oregon woman was prescribed a chemotherapy drug, Tarceva, that could lengthen her life and provide comfort. Then, she was notified that the Oregon Health Plan wouldn’t cover the cancer drug, but would cover palliative (comfort) care, including a doctor-assisted suicide



Daschle’s version of health care made it into the stimulus bill.

He praises Europeans for being more willing to accept “hopeless diagnoses” and “forgo experimental treatments,” and he chastises Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.

Brave New World indeed.

116 capitalist piglet  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:49:53am

re: #106 Lizard by the Bay

Just to play devil’s advocate for a moment, does that mean you oppose government’s use of the military as well (surely that falls under the category of “government making life or death decisions about Americans”)?

No, I realized I should have been a little more nuanced after I posted. I was talking about health care.

117 Lively  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:49:56am

re: #110 Thanos

*raises hand for Minister of Snacks*

I’ll be Minister of Naps

118 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:50:19am

Pretty soon we are going to need a Czar Czar to keep track of all these people.

119 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:50:34am

re: #118 Ford_Prefect

Pretty soon we are going to need a Czar Czar to keep track of all these people.

Maybe a Gabor?

120 transient  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:50:34am

re: #43 Last Mohican

We’ll all suffer from this. And the effort to control costs by having a central authority that decides which tests and treatments are appropriate, and therefore eligible for government reimbursement, will have the opposite effect. Previous attempts at managed care have demonstrated this, and it will be even worse when the government is more actively involved.

The government will have to hire huge staffs of people without medical expertise, who sit in offices, without seeing patients, and challenge what trained physicians do. The physicians will have hire staffs of people to respond to these challenges. All those dollars, and all that time, could have been invested in patient care instead of providing jobs for a new class of bureaucrats.

This system is already in existence to some degree, fostered by private insurance companies who already effectively dictate what care can be received based on what they will pay for. Doctors’ office staffs have multiplied to deal with the insurance companies, who are notoriously reluctant to issue even justified payment (because if they can withhold payment for even a couple of months, they earn interest on the money, and that adds up even in today’s crappy economy). Doctors despise the insurance companies. Any reform in health care would have to address the insurance companies, who come close to running the show today. If the insurance shifts to the government, it’s just a shift in the bureaucracy, and to be honest, a lot of doctors would welcome a single payor system if it meant they got paid on time.

121 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:50:35am

re: #107 bulwrk

In every study I’ve heard about, every other developed nation in the world has a health care system that beats ours in accessibility, cost, and quality for all areas of medicine

That’s certainly not what I have read.

And if there are so many other systems better than ours, how come every famous person comes here to get their medical care? I don’t see to many Saudi Sheiks going north to Canada?

122 Golem Akbar  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:50:36am

re: #95 Ben Hur

I’m sure today’s students think that “Czar” is an English word.

In English, it’s spelled Chazar. [heh]

123 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:50:39am

re: #110 Thanos

*raises hand for Minister of Snacks*

Kool-Aid, and those crappy animal crackers in the big teddy bear shaped jar.

/not nabisco

124 Wishing  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:50:44am

czar:
Origin:
1545–55; < Russ tsar’, ORuss tsĭsarĭ emperor, king (akin to OCS tsěsarĭ) < Goth kaisar emperor (< Gk or L); Gk kaîsar < L Caesar caesar

125 joncelli  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:50:47am

re: #59 martinsmithy

Yes, there are problems with the system, but getting government involved always creates a new set of problems. A better solution is (usually) a market solution — for example, destroy the current HMO/Medicare system, go over to health care vouchers for those who need it, and give people the option to spend the vouchers — and their own dollars — on the medical service they choose. It would also free doctors from the onerous paperwork of the Medicare/HMO system.

126 meeshlr  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:50:51am
127 Ron Shaw  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:50:52am

Czar Barack!

128 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:51:06am
129 Crusader Rabbit  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:51:06am

Wherever there are czars, look out for cossacks sent to carry out pogroms.

130 yma o hyd  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:51:26am

re: #77 Ben Hur

This is the scary part.

The natural progression will be something akin to mandatory fat camps.

“You are too (fill in blank) and too much a burden on the system. Please report to camp.”

Also, there will never be tax cuts again. The left will move on from screaming “They are trying to take away education!” to “They are trying to take away your health care.”

And what’s with this “Universal” BS. The US is not the world. It’s NATIONAL health care. As part of NATIONAL socialism.

Unless they really mean universal and you will end up paying for Hamas dental care.


Thats what is meant - as can be seen in the NHS hospitals here in GB on a daily basis. We call it ‘Health Tourism’, and its one reason why he system is groaning under the strain. And as its all ‘equal’, the natives usually find themselves at the end of the queue, even though they’ve paid into this all their lives …

131 pat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:51:30am

The first thing Government will do to control costs is to pool drug purchases and tinker with drug papent laws thus ensuring medical research in this area will end. And government labs are notorious for wasted research dollars. Think global warming.

132 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:51:36am

Solution:

It is illegal (if you’re a legal citizen) to drive without car insurance.

Does everyone have it? No. Is it a right? No.

So why not have the market take care of health insurance.

Why doesn’t Geico, Progressive, etc etc, sell health insurance. The competition would keep the prices down.

133 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:51:40am

re: #115 jcm

He praises Europeans for being more willing to accept “hopeless diagnoses” and “forgo experimental treatments,” and he chastises Americans for expecting too much from the health-care system.

“What the hell do you expect? To get well?”

- daschle

134 rawmuse  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:51:55am

“Hi, I’m Doctor Roberts. I’ve been reviewing your records, and I regret to inform you that your utility to the State as a taxpayer has reached it’s terminus. Sorry, your account simply does not pencil out anymore. Please step in to room 101 where technicians are ready to assist you with the rest of your life.”

135 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:51:57am

re: #104 Peacekeeper

I feel sorry for the patients of Doctors who only made it through med school because of government AA quotas.

Plenty of doctors you go to today may very well have gotten their degree in Central America or the Caribbean (basically, med schools for C students). Many of the colleges in these areas are accredited and even have residency programs here in the U.S.

136 tackle  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:52:02am

re: #117 Lively

I’ll be Minister of Naps

What about an Assistant (to the) Czar?

137 seekeroftruth  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:52:04am

re: #59 martinsmithy

The problem isn’t health care, it’s health insurance and affordability. We have the best health care in the world. The problem is how to pay for it and still have quality care. Socialized medicine is affordable, but the health care is poor. Think of all the problems with HMO’s multiplied by a thousand. The solution needs to come from the private sector, like the affordable clinics showing up in Target and CVS stores, the pharmaceutical companies offering free or low cost drugs to those who need it, doctors that take cash only. These are some of thing beginnings of addressing the price issues without sacrificing health care.

138 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:52:09am
139 Wishing  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:52:11am

re: #127 Ron Shaw

Czar Barack!

CzarBarry sounds like a wine cooler

140 brookly red  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:52:16am

re: #92 Sabnen

Imagine your local Department of Motor Vehicles office. Tile floor, lime-green wall paint, turquoise blue fiberglass chairs, bullet-proof glass in front of the clerks (who, by the way, have to FAIL the “common-sense” and “courtesy” sections of a personality test to become a clerk).

This is the starter model they will use to dish out your Health Care.

Seems the market is slightly up, due to strong demand for floor tiles , lime-green wall paint, turquoise blue fiberglass chairs, & bullet-proof glass…

141 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:52:32am

re: #114 Lively

Good answer.

142 Ron Shaw  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:52:37am

re: #119 Ford_Prefect

Maybe a Gabor?

Czar Czar Ga-Barack?

143 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:52:37am

re: #84 yma o hyd

Heh. Thats pretty civilised!
Here, you got to make an appointment with your GP - takes usually two weeks. Then he refers you - goes not to another doctor but to admin. They take two weeks to send you a letter that they are thinking of you … then you get an appointment, within six weeks … then you get onto another waiting list, for a ‘procedure’. six weeks if you’re lucky - usually that gts cancelled, and you go to the bottom of the list …
People here are waiting for a hip transplant, for up to 18 months …
And lets not even start on the shenanigans the admin people get up to to get their statistics right, enver mind if its in the interest of the patients, never mind if the doctor would have something done right now.

‘Best system in the world’ - ha!

And here … If I call for an appointment and it’s urgent, I get to see a doctor the same day - if not urgent, appointment within a week. If after hours, there are “urgent care” clinics open ‘til 11 at night where I can go.

If I need an x-ray or CT scan or lab work or an EKG - can have it done the same day, usually right at my doctor’s office, with a quick visit back with him for results.

Other procedures might take a day or two or three to set up.

I don’t know exactly what is “broken” that needs to be “fixed”.

144 JohnAdams  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:52:49am

This is the Black Hole that could really destroy our economy (uh, avoiding the obvious but potentially racist joke here) because this issue is a collision between two diamatrically opposed forces: the compassion of all good people toward those who are ill, and the plain realities of free market economics.

There is no answer that will please (or heal) everyone.

145 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:52:53am

re: #127 Ron Shaw

Czar Barack!


Baczar!

146 LionOfDixon  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:53:04am

Tomorrow, Obama will announce a Czar Czar to keep track of all the Czars that have been annointed….er…appointed.

147 Golem Akbar  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:53:07am

re: #128 buzzsawmonkey

“Oceania has always been allied with Euthanasia.”


I prefer the Youth In America.

148 opnion  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:53:10am

re: #120 transient

The doctors will not welcom the reduction in income. Also, the government is not knon for quick pay.
The doctors may not like Medical Mangement, but they will really loathe single payer.

149 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:53:30am

re: #128 buzzsawmonkey

“Oceania has always been allied with Euthanasia.”

[doffs hat]

150 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:53:47am

re: #145 Ben Hur

Baczar!

Is that Backsheesh’s cousin?

151 transient  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:53:50am

re: #86 Lizard by the Bay

I feel sorry for the people who started medical school already. They just don’t realize that when they’re getting paid a mailman’s wages to work as a government doctor their odds of ever paying off their med school debts are about even with us ever being able to pay back the porkulus debt.

I’m sure they’ll be given the opportunity to work off the debt by several years’ indentured servitude in some underserved region.

152 bulwrk  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:53:50am

re: #121 Nevergiveup

I’ve read that the families of patients checking into hospitals in the UK bring cleaning supplies with them.

153 Ron Shaw  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:53:52am

re: #139 Wishing

CzarBarry sounds like a wine cooler

Obamaczar Sherif!

154 Last Mohican  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:53:57am

re: #59 martinsmithy

In every study I’ve heard about, every other developed nation in the world has a health care system that beats ours in accessibility, cost, and quality for all areas of medicine with the notable exception of unusual or cutting-edge medical treatments.

I’ve seen a few such studies. And I’ve heard from plenty of patients who waited for a year or more in a country with nationalized health care to get access to a medical test, or a doctor visit, or a surgical procedure that they could have had almost immediately in the United States. Many of the ones who can afford it come to the U.S. to get treatment they can’t get elsewhere.

Personally, I don’t think a person should die or be chronically ill because he or she cannot afford health care.

I agree. I also don’t think a person should die or be chronically ill because a government agency or HMO has decided that it would rather pay its own salaries than spend that money on providing health care.

I don’t like the idea of my hospital and other medical bills being needlessly inflated to pay for the emergency room visits that the uninsured make because they don’t have access to any other health care.

I agree.

And one thought for everyone - doesn’t our current employer-based health care system put a huge cost burden on our nation’s employers - a burden that prevents them from creating more jobs? If health insurance became a joint responsibility of individuals and government, this burden would be lifted. Would GM still be going bankrupt if it didn’t have the huge burden of “legacy costs” to pay for the health insurance of its retirees?

Good point. But would GM have gone bankrupt sooner if their corporate taxes had been raised because they had to pay for a large new Washington bureaucracy full of government employees who consume health care dollars, yet do not see patients, or render care in any other way?

155 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:54:24am

re: #128 buzzsawmonkey

“Oceania has always been allied with Euthanasia.”

What do the youth in Asia have to do with this?

156 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:54:26am

re: #135 Lizard by the Bay

Plenty of doctors you go to today may very well have gotten their degree in Central America or the Caribbean (basically, med schools for C students).

You can, of course, control for that. Your doctor’s qualifications are ALL of your damned business!

157 notutopia  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:54:46am

Doctors and Surgeons did not go through years of science and medical study and research
to practice a Government approved Cookbook of Health Care.
They also should not take away our freedoms to make our own individual choices on the physician or facility for that healthcare. If they want to expand the current public welfare health system, then expand the state, county/parish healthcare systems. This will pump more funds into the individual states, which would have more control over the fiscal responsibility over the health care allocation and costs for that individual state and county. And, they need to enforce the current illegal immigration laws that we have on the books. The US border hospitals are losing millions each year, due to indigent non-US residents.

158 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:54:56am

And now you know why uncle wants all your medical records per the stimulus bill.

159 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:55:11am

Who’s gonna be the health czar, anyway? Dr. Jack Kevorkian?

160 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:55:14am

re: #156 Occasional Reader

What do you call the student that came last in his medical school class?

161 Lively  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:55:29am

re: #160 Ben Hur

What do you call the student that came last in his medical school class?

Dentist

162 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:55:41am

re: #160 Ben Hur

What do you call the student that came last in his medical school class?

DR.

163 opnion  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:55:49am

re: #160 Ben Hur

What do you call the student that came last in his medical school class?

Doctor

164 turn  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:55:49am

re: #143 reine.de.tout

Happy b-day Reine! Pisces rock.

Hands up for Vacation Czar.

165 Golem Akbar  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:55:54am

re: #160 Ben Hur

What do you call the student that came last in his medical school class?


Doctor?

166 capitalist piglet  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:55:54am

re: #160 Ben Hur

What do you call the student that came last in his medical school class?

Doctor!

167 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:55:55am

re: #161 Lively

Dentist

The answer was Doctor, but I like yours better.

168 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:55:55am

re: #160 Ben Hur

What do you call the student that came last in his medical school class?

Doctor.

169 Ron Shaw  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:55:57am

Cossacks! Obamatron cossacks…the Reds….eeeek.

170 LionOfDixon  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:56:11am

Can you imagine if Barney Frank were appointed to this position? “Achtung! All males report to the Health Czar for mandatory hernia examaniations!”

171 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:56:11am

re: #161 Lively

Dentist

No. The Joke is what does DMD mean: Didn’t make doctor

172 martinsmithy  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:56:23am

re: #107 bulwrk

Here are two references to recent comparative studies which indicate the problems with U.S. health care when compared to other nations:

United Nations Study

Commonwealth Fund Study

173 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:56:23am

re: #155 Ford_Prefect

What do the youth in Asia have to do with this?

Spot on. Buzzsaw is just trying to Thai together two utterly different things. We shouldn’t al-Lao him to get away with it.

174 tackle  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:56:33am

re: #137 seekeroftruth

The problem isn’t health care, it’s health insurance and affordability. We have the best health care in the world. The problem is how to pay for it and still have quality care. Socialized medicine is affordable, but the health care is poor. Think of all the problems with HMO’s multiplied by a thousand. The solution needs to come from the private sector, like the affordable clinics showing up in Target and CVS stores, the pharmaceutical companies offering free or low cost drugs to those who need it, doctors that take cash only. These are some of thing beginnings of addressing the price issues without sacrificing health care.

Some employers are getting it. They’re offering health savings accounts and discounted gym memberships to help keep insurance costs down. Having more competition with insurance companies will also help drive the cost down. It’s discouraging with those with insurance are still payout out thousands of dollars for health coverage.

175 xtraBilly  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:56:38am

Yo mama’s so fat, I had to take a train and two busses just to get on her good side.
…………Legate of Snaps.

176 Lively  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:56:41am

re: #171 Nevergiveup

No. The Joke is what does DMD mean: Didn’t make doctor

lol, I’ve never heard that one. Will file.

177 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:56:53am

The article is spot on.

I used to date an English girl. One day skiing, she crashed into a tree and injured her knee. Because her health care was “free” in England, she decided to fly home for surgery. Nine months later they performed the opperation. She walks with a limp to this day.

178 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:56:57am

So excited for the first terminal patient to need an ‘outside’ of the box treatment.

Fat bureaucrat in sweats with diet soda in refillable mug, “Sorry, our policies can’t approve your need, I will send this to my supervisor to submit this to be reviewed by our ‘suggestions for improvement’ committee, then if it is deemed ‘passable’ it will be sent up to be reviewed by the Health Czar. Then next year the Health Czar will submit his proposals to congress. When congress meets next year and they decide to vote we will see if it can be written in to be added to the list of treatable ailments. Have a nice day.”

Terminal ill patient, “I came here from Canada…now where do I go…”

/Well, I suggest a healthy diet, exercise, and a lot of ‘hope’ that one can never get sick…

179 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:56:59am

re: #167 Ben Hur

The answer was Doctor, but I like yours better.

What do you call the Dr. who isn’t gonna have to be socialized? Dentists. Take that!

180 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:57:00am

re: #160 Ben Hur

What do you call the student that came last in his medical school class?

Neurosurgeon?

181 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:57:18am

re: #171 Nevergiveup

No. The Joke is what does DMD mean: Didn’t make doctor

It’s also said that those who can’t make it in vet school become doctors.

182 tackle  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:57:22am

re: #152 bulwrk

I’ve read that the families of patients checking into hospitals in the UK bring cleaning supplies with them.

Is that due to the rampant infection problem?

183 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:57:26am

re: #176 Lively

lol, I’ve never heard that one. Will file.

And DDS: Didn’t do shit

184 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:57:27am

re: #160 Ben Hur

What do you call the student that came last in his medical school class?

It depends on what his/her name is.

/what? me, “literal”?

185 yma o hyd  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:57:53am

re: #143 reine.de.tout

And here … If I call for an appointment and it’s urgent, I get to see a doctor the same day - if not urgent, appointment within a week. If after hours, there are “urgent care” clinics open ‘til 11 at night where I can go.

If I need an x-ray or CT scan or lab work or an EKG - can have it done the same day, usually right at my doctor’s office, with a quick visit back with him for results.

Other procedures might take a day or two or three to set up.

I don’t know exactly what is “broken” that needs to be “fixed”.

I can tell you what is ‘broken’ and needs ‘fixing’: there isn’t enough bureaucracy and especially government bureaucracy involved.
I mean - citizens looking after themselves?
The idea!

////

Happy birthday, {reine}!

186 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:57:54am

re: #181 Ward Cleaver

It’s also said that those who can’t make it in vet school become doctors.

Woff!

187 zombie  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:57:56am

re: #59 martinsmithy

Good points, but there are other issues which are kind of too ugly to face up to.

First of all, it is a leftist truism that “everybody deserves equally good health care.” And while that sounds wonderful in theory, it brings us back to some of the fundamental principles of any non-communist system:

If Joe, for example, spends his whole life working hard for the very purpose of “living comfortably” in his old age, and if part of living comfortably means top-notch medical care; and if Jane watches her diet and exercises and avoids illegal drugs and denies herself hedonistic pleasures in order to remain perfectly healthy; then why in the world should Joe have to subsidize Bob who has spent his life so far being a irresponsible layabout; and why should Jane have to subsidize Joan, who eats junkfood by the truckload and has a litany of ailments to show for it?

It seems cruel to those who are sick, but frankly over half of the “health problems” in this country are self-induced by those suffering from them, mainly due to bad diet and reckless behavior (drugs, sex, dangerous activities, etc.).

It’s a real sticky moral question, because a human is a human, but half the people aren’t holding up their side of the bargain, and the other half are supposed to pick up the cost of their treatment. No matter which way you structure health care it isn’t going to be “fair” to one side or the other.

188 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:57:58am

If you want to compare health care systems the best way is through outcomes. The large general measure is life expectancy, and we aren’t doing all that shabby. If you remove some of the other affectors of this - wars, we drive a lot more than most countries, recent refugee immigrations, etc. we are near the top of the heap. I think Singapore and Sweden and a few others beat us.

189 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:58:04am

re: #118 Ford_Prefect

Pretty soon we are going to need a Czar Czar to keep track of all these people.

That would be Obama when he appoints himself to that role.

Czar of Hosts, Czar of Kings, Czar of Czars…

190 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:58:10am

re: #173 Occasional Reader

Spot on. Buzzsaw is just trying to Thai together two utterly different things. We shouldn’t al-Lao him to get away with it.

I would respond, but I’m afraid that I will be hungry for more in an hour.

191 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:58:26am

re: #159 Ward Cleaver

Who’s gonna be the health czar, anyway? Dr. Jack Kevorkian?

Jack Elam … (Cannonball Run)

/hey, at least the part of the anatomy’s correct!

192 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:58:35am

re: #181 Ward Cleaver

It’s also said that those who can’t make it in vet school become doctors.

Vets are very important in times of war, apparently.

There’s an emergency list.

I think it goes Doctor, Dentist, Vet, or something.

One of my best friends is a Vet, and feels good about that little tidbit.

193 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:58:47am

“Calling Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard!”

“Calling Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard!”

/a bit of humor

194 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:59:00am

re: #184 Occasional Reader

It depends on what his/her name is.

/what? me, “literal”?

HIS.

195 dhg4  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:59:08am

Don’t look now but the WaPo is advocating a mileage tax. This would likely involve placing some sort of GPS device on every car so the government would know how far you’ve driven.

I realize that this isn’t as critical the government determining your health, but it’s still intrusive. (It’s also a pretty naked money grab.)

At least the administration shot down the suggestion of former GOP congressman, Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood.

Still there’ve been pilot programs out west so some people think it’s reasonable. Now with a major paper advocating it, this policy is going to get discussed.

196 martinsmithy  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:59:13am

re: #126 meeshlr

I agree, health care is not a constitutional right, and if it is made an absolute right, it is subject to abuse. But there are overwhelming reasons, both economic and moral, to give all U.S. citizens access to a strong health care system.

197 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:59:25am

Right now I participate in very FEW dental plans, because I don’t want or like anyone telling me what to do.

198 ladycatnip  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:59:34am

#59 martinsmithy

But there are significant health care issues in this nation of ours - because our current system is malfunctioning. In every study I’ve heard about, every other developed nation in the world has a health care system that beats ours in accessibility, cost, and quality for all areas of medicine with the notable exception of unusual or cutting-edge medical treatments.

Would really like to read what you’ve read. Every person I know personally from Canada or Britain claims socialized medicine is malfunctioning. Rationed care, long waiting periods that cost some their lives (making accessibility a joke), and bureaucrats making life and death decisions based upon the bottom line - doesn’t sound like quality health care to me.

199 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:59:36am

re: #154 Last Mohican

“And one thought for everyone - doesn’t our current employer-based health care system put a huge cost burden on our nation’s employers - a burden that prevents them from creating more jobs? If health insurance became a joint responsibility of individuals and government, this burden would be lifted. Would GM still be going bankrupt if it didn’t have the huge burden of “legacy costs” to pay for the health insurance of its retirees?

Good point. But would GM have gone bankrupt sooner if their corporate taxes had been raised because they had to pay for a large new Washington bureaucracy full of government employees who consume health care dollars, yet do not see patients, or render care in any other way?”

That burden is not going to go away because of this. What is going to happen is that an incremental burden of government control will be layered on top of it. If you loved the problems that GM is having with their VEBA, you can be assured that it will be much worse after this goes into effect. I have never known a government program to reduce the cost of anything when integrated over all users. It is just a burden shift from one class of people to another with a surtax on the money shifted to pay for the government’s efforts.

200 pat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:59:40am

Actually the studies show that Americans have better health care by 6 out of seven indicators than the Europeans, particularly Britain, Sweden, Germany and France. France is the exception, with better indicators than the other nations. As for Canada, the price is right until you get sick. There are more MRIs is Honolulu than the entire country of Canada.

201 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 8:59:40am

re: #191 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Jack Elam … (Cannonball Run)

/hey, at least the part of the anatomy’s correct!

The dude who keeps smelling his middle finger?

202 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:00:20am
203 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:00:30am

re: #195 dhg4

Don’t look now but the WaPo is advocating a mileage tax. This would likely involve placing some sort of GPS device on every car so the government would know how far you’ve driven.

I realize that this isn’t as critical the government determining your health, but it’s still intrusive. (It’s also a pretty naked money grab.)

At least the administration shot down the suggestion of former GOP congressman, Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood.

Still there’ve been pilot programs out west so some people think it’s reasonable. Now with a major paper advocating it, this policy is going to get discussed.

Wiretapping terrorists, bad.

The government monitoring your every move via GPS, good?

204 Lively  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:00:46am

re: #195 dhg4

Don’t look now but the WaPo is advocating a mileage tax. This would likely involve placing some sort of GPS device on every car so the government would know how far you’ve driven.

I realize that this isn’t as critical the government determining your health, but it’s still intrusive. (It’s also a pretty naked money grab.)

At least the administration shot down the suggestion of former GOP congressman, Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood.

Still there’ve been pilot programs out west so some people think it’s reasonable. Now with a major paper advocating it, this policy is going to get discussed.

What is every driver suppose to do? Pull into the Dept of Motor Vehicles every three months?

205 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:00:52am

re: #201 Ben Hur

The dude who keeps smelling his middle finger?

Yep.

206 acwgusa  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:00:53am

re: #59 martinsmithy

re: #76 transient

Do you want to know the real reason health care costs are so inflated? One: Malpractice Insurance premiums. The hospital system my mother works for pays 20% off the top for malpractice insurance! 20%! And as far as Medicaid reimbursement.

Two: Drug costs. And I am not talking necessary life sustaining drugs. I’m talking Viagra, and other lifestyle drugs.

Three, ridiculous health regions, with no competition in certain regions. HMO and PPO’s are locked into zones, with no chance of expansion or competition.

Four, lack of trained, professional nursing staff. Nursing is always, always understaffed, and we don’t turn out enough health care workers to cover that, because it isn’t a glamorous position.

None of these, with the exception of three, is anything government policy can fix.

And frankly, I wouldn’t trust a US government health database anyway. Especially those being run by Obama’s former campaign website staff.

207 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:01:15am

re: #203 Ben Hur

Wiretapping terrorists, bad.

The government monitoring your every move via GPS, good?

Wonder how well those things work when covered with aluminum foil?

208 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:01:20am

re: #160 Ben Hur

What do you call the student that came last in his medical school class?

You also should know that all studies show there is an inverse relationship between where you graduate and how much you make. It seems the bottom of the class makes more than the top.

209 yma o hyd  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:01:24am

re: #152 bulwrk

I’ve read that the families of patients checking into hospitals in the UK bring cleaning supplies with them.

Heck - some even do the cleaning themselves!
See - the government needs to save money, so the cleaning services are not done ‘in-house- any longer, but are given to private contractors. These are not well paid (lowest bidder gets the contract) so they couldn’t care less if there’s a bit of dirt around …
Ever heard of ‘hospital-acquired infections’?
We have them … and some wards and even hospitals have to be closed down remporarily to get rid of the stuff. Oh, and people die, of course - but hey, its only the elderly … ///

210 zelnaga  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:01:35am

re: #177 Ringo the Gringo

The article is spot on.

I used to date an English girl. One day skiing, she crashed into a tree and injured her knee. Because her health care was “free” in England, she decided to fly home for surgery. Nine months later they performed the opperation. She walks with a limp to this day.

If you’re willing to pay extra for priority treatment in the UK, can you? That everyone is guaranteed health care doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to wait in the same line as a freeloader.

211 ladycatnip  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:01:37am

#112 opnion

I feel like a silly goose! Thank you for the correction. Please to not report me to my local Obama block club.

Glad to have enlightened you. My lips are sealed.

212 zombie  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:01:41am

This whole thread has been pun‘kt.

213 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:01:43am

re: #206 acwgusa

re: #76 transient

Do you want to know the real reason health care costs are so inflated? One: Malpractice Insurance premiums. The hospital system my mother works for pays 20% off the top for malpractice insurance! 20%! And as far as Medicaid reimbursement.

Two: Drug costs. And I am not talking necessary life sustaining drugs. I’m talking Viagra, and other lifestyle drugs.

Three, ridiculous health regions, with no competition in certain regions. HMO and PPO’s are locked into zones, with no chance of expansion or competition.

Four, lack of trained, professional nursing staff. Nursing is always, always understaffed, and we don’t turn out enough health care workers to cover that, because it isn’t a glamorous position.

None of these, with the exception of three, is anything government policy can fix.

And frankly, I wouldn’t trust a US government health database anyway. Especially those being run by Obama’s former campaign website staff.

In short, John Edwards.

214 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:02:00am

Let’s face it… the extremes of left and right are all control freaks. Both ends of the spectrum are freaking busybodies who want to control all aspects of our lives because they think they know what’s good for us.

215 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:02:14am

re: #203 Ben Hur

Wiretapping terrorists, bad.

The government monitoring your every move via GPS, good?

Yep. And “US out of my uterus!”, good. “US intimately involved in every medical decision I make!”, also good. Don’t try to fight it.

216 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:02:25am

re: #207 Ward Cleaver

Wonder how well those things work when covered with aluminum foil?

I prefer my terrorists wrapped in dirt.

217 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:02:30am

re: #209 yma o hyd

Heck - some even do the cleaning themselves!
See - the government needs to save money, so the cleaning services are not done ‘in-house- any longer, but are given to private contractors. These are not well paid (lowest bidder gets the contract) so they couldn’t care less if there’s a bit of dirt around …
Ever heard of ‘hospital-acquired infections’?
We have them … and some wards and even hospitals have to be closed down remporarily to get rid of the stuff. Oh, and people die, of course - but hey, its only the elderly … ///

Lord have MRSA.

218 capitalist piglet  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:02:37am

re: #189 Oh no…Sand People!

That would be Obama when he appoints himself to that role.

Czar of Hosts, Czar of Kings, Czar of Czars…

He’ll order the Hallelujah Chorus to be re-written to reflect this, I assume.

Czar of Kings! Forever, and ever.
And Czar of Czars! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!
And he shall reign forever and ever…

219 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:02:48am

re: #195 dhg4

Don’t look now but the WaPo is advocating a mileage tax. This would likely involve placing some sort of GPS device on every car so the government would know how far you’ve driven.

I realize that this isn’t as critical the government determining your health, but it’s still intrusive. (It’s also a pretty naked money grab.)

At least the administration shot down the suggestion of former GOP congressman, Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood.

Still there’ve been pilot programs out west so some people think it’s reasonable. Now with a major paper advocating it, this policy is going to get discussed.

Call me crazy, but if they were able to drop the ‘gas tax’ and only tax mileage and it ensured the tax went into upholding road infrastructure…I actually would be for it. It is akin to taxing only ‘consumable’ goods: Those who drive. (Technically a tax on ‘gas’ is the same thing…)

However, the debate at question is the method by which they figure out ‘how much you’ve driven’…

/I could be wrong and only just started thinking about this issue…

220 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:02:53am

re: #208 Nevergiveup

You also should know that all studies show there is an inverse relationship between where you graduate and how much you make. It seems the bottom of the class makes more than the top.

The smart ones want to do “research” I gather.

The ones out partying want the cash.

221 acwgusa  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:02:54am

re: #206 acwgusa

Oops. I lost my train of thought on the Medicaid reimbursement. It is now 10 cents on every medical dollar spent.

222 transient  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:03:27am

re: #148 opnion

The doctors will not welcom the reduction in income. Also, the government is not knon for quick pay.
The doctors may not like Medical Mangement, but they will really loathe single payer.

Perhaps I overstated when I said “a lot” of doctors. But certainly some would welcome it if it relieved them of the paperwork nightmares. And if they could let go some of the office staff dedicated to paperwork, their incomes would not drop as much as you might think. But yes, they would drop and of course no one is happy to see a reduction in salary.

Of course if doctors didn’t have to pay as much in malpractice coverage, that would be a significant savings, too. But I don’t see an Obama administration effecting tort reform.

I’m not advocating a single payor system, I’m just pointing out that the current system, from the point of view of many doctors as well as patients, is undesireable and untenable.

223 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:03:51am

re: #212 zombie

This whole thread has been pun‘kt.

Can we tsart over now?

224 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:03:57am

re: #220 Ben Hur

The smart ones want to do “research” I gather.

The ones out partying want the cash.

That is what I would presume. As for Dentist I know, many who , well lets say have less morals than others, make a killing. Enough said.

225 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:03:57am

The whole 0bama administration is making me sick. Their apologizing to the UN in the Durban conference; their complete incompetence to where I believe Iran and North Korea will get nukes, is all bad for my heart and blood pressure.

I think the most cost effective thing they could do for my health is for them to all resign, leaving, if they can’t put a Republican in charge, no one worse than Hillary. At least she doesn’t want to wreck the US (because she’d lose power.)

That is my prescription for 0bamsa.

226 yma o hyd  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:04:06am

re: #187 zombie

Yep - watch it in action - visit the UK!

227 JohnAdams  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:04:39am

re: #187 zombie

Great points. I would say that both of the following are partially true.

The system IS broke, and you CANT fix it.

The only truly acceptable answer for everyone is for everyone to get top-notch medical care. But to achieve that, you would never stop dumping the money down the hole, and you would never fill it. The entire country would become essentially a hospital.

228 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:04:42am

re: #216 Ford_Prefect

I prefer my terrorists wrapped in dirt.

I meant the GPS. How about foil-wrapped terrorists, smothered in dirt?

229 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:04:55am

re: #198 ladycatnip

Not to mention the ugly facts like a teenager in Britain who died recently because she was denied a cat scan. Screaming headaches for a couple of months before she died of a cerebral hemorrhage.

230 pbird  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:05:03am

re: #93 Wishing

Many of our health care issues and increasing health care costs are the result of over-use of the medical system by people who cannot pay for medical care, and who never intended to. And I don’t know how to fix that, and remain the compassionate nation that we are.

Its also overused when we don’t take normal prudent care of ourselves and then need repair. I don’t know how to fix that either.

231 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:05:10am

re: #164 turn

re: #185 yma o hyd

Thanks, ya’ll!

232 Afrocity  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:05:10am

Why would someone want national healthcare?

When I was growing up. Mom and I were on welfare. My medical care was awful. They told me what I could and could not have done. The vision care was awful. They only saw you if you were near death. Now that I work and have excellent health care I am appreciative of the choices and options I have. I have more power over preventative measures.

233 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:05:37am

re: #223 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Can we tsart over now?

Ivan to say right now, these Czar puns are Terrible.

234 Irish Rose  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:05:40am

The lack of faith that you all have in the Obama administration is shameful! Shameful, I say!

/do I?

235 rawmuse  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:05:44am

OT, but, heads up, gun owners. ALL gun owners.

HR 45 is moving swiftly through the House.

Required licensing of all firearms owners, ID check, thumbprint, mandatory RENEWAL of licenses with heavy penalties for failure to do so, site check for safe storage and record keeping (this is an intrusion on the 4th amendment, of course).

236 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:05:45am

re: #221 acwgusa

Oops. I lost my train of thought on the Medicaid reimbursement. It is now 10 cents on every medical dollar spent.

How about giving illegal aliens a crash course in internal medicine?

237 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:05:51am
238 JohnAdams  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:05:54am

re: #193 Ward Cleaver

“Calling Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard!”

“Calling Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard!”

/a bit of humor

Somebody call?

239 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:06:12am

OT, sort of. One of my favorite political cartoonists:

1
2
3

240 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:06:28am

re: #228 Ward Cleaver

I meant the GPS. How about foil-wrapped terrorists, smothered in dirt?

Works for me.

241 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:06:38am

To paraphrase Crack The Sky:

Serf City, here come the sharks

242 turn  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:06:44am

re: #225 Kosh’s Shadow

The whole 0bama administration is making me sick. Their apologizing to the UN in the Durban conference; their complete incompetence to where I believe Iran and North Korea will get nukes, is all bad for my heart and blood pressure.

I think the most cost effective thing they could do for my health is for them to all resign, leaving, if they can’t put a Republican in charge, no one worse than Hillary. At least she doesn’t want to wreck the US (because she’d lose power.)

That is my prescription for 0bamsa.

Got this from the mother in law today …

The Dow at a 10-year low.
A tax cheat running the IRS
Another tax cheat as the Chief of Staff
A trillion-dollar plus federal deficit
Over one-half of voters relieved of any federal tax liability
Government mandated limits on executive compensation
Three failed attempts and still no Commerce Secretary
Tom Daschle rides his free limo into the sunset - after paying taxes he evaded.
The White House performance czar turns out to be a tax cheat also
Lobbyists hired to work for the Obama Administration
The census gets politicized
Double government spending in one year
The word “freedom” fades into obscurity
Increasing home loan mortgage rates across the board
Millions of Americans made dependent on government
Moving unionization-by-intimidation forward
Welfare checks become “tax cuts.”
Illegal aliens free to work on taxpayer-funded “stimulus” projects
Welfare reform reversed, states ordered to increase welfare roles
Move to silence critical talk radio shows
Selling Senate seats
Obama books in religious sections of book stores
More government workers, not private sector jobs
A government bureaucracy to intrude on doctor/patient relationships
Stage set for medical services rationing
Annual welfare checks for middle income families


Pretty thorough list, I would add the axis of evil clenching their fists

243 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:06:46am

re: #232 Afrocity

Now that I work and have excellent health care I am appreciative of the choices and options I have. I have more power over preventative measures.

But by hogging all that good health for yourself, you’re taking it away from someone else. And that’s not fair.

/

244 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:06:54am

I just can’t wait til they lobby for ‘affirmative’ action in healthcare…I mean we all know now that heart attacks are racist apparently.

“I’m sorry sir, this line is reserved for those of different pigmentation. You’ll just have to wait.”

/

245 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:07:15am

re: #233 Occasional Reader

Ivan to say right now, these Czar puns are Terrible.

This thread is Kremlin into dust.

246 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:07:39am

re: #222 transient

You raise an interesting point. If the standard of medical care is to give a patient a series of tests and the government does not allow it, does the patient still sue the doctor? This has the potential to increase malpractice insurance, not decrease it. My father in law stopped his pediatric practice because the burden of paperwork between the HMOs and Medicaid was too great for he and his wife to handle.

247 Sabnen  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:07:45am

re: #214 Thanos

Bingo! Control freaks through and through. The road to hell is paved in good intentions.

248 BigAl  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:07:58am

I’m reminded of the eTrade commercial where the kid , when asked, “What am going to do with all this coin? Answered I’m hiring a clown, Bobo there”.

Then said, “I didn’t realize the creepiness”

Well, America we got ourselves a world-class creepy clown.

249 acwgusa  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:08:00am

re: #236 Ward Cleaver

How about giving illegal aliens a crash course in internal medicine?

My cynical response would be a crash course right back over the border fence, but I would get hauled off by the PC police for re-eduction.

250 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:08:07am
251 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:08:25am

re: #235 rawmuse

F**king hell.

And so it begins.

252 yma o hyd  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:08:27am

re: #210 zelnaga

If you’re willing to pay extra for priority treatment in the UK, can you? That everyone is guaranteed health care doesn’t necessarily mean that you have to wait in the same line as a freeloader.

Yes, one can go ‘private’ in the UK, and pay through the nose for the priviledge, seeing the same doctors who’d one see in the NHS hospital.
Oh - there is private health insurance, but once you’ve got a chronic illness, thats no longer covered - and you have to pay excess before they shell out.
For normal taxpayers, thats near unaffordable.

253 Throbert McGee  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:08:44am

re: #124 Wishing

[English “czar” from Russian tsar from Latin Caesar]

Coincidentally, the traditional Russian word for a Western European king, namely korol, also derives from the name of a specific historic figure — in this case, Charlemagne. (Note that the Latin version of his name, Carolus Magnus, starts with a hard “k” sound, like the Russian korol.)

254 LionOfDixon  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:08:59am

The thought of Michelle Obama’s husband having anything to do with my health care is bone chilling.

255 turn  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:09:12am

re: #231 reine.de.tout

We’re one day apart, that’s how I remembered.

256 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:09:19am

Let’s go Serfing

Youtube Video

257 tackle  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:09:23am

re: #245 pre-Boomer Marine brat

This thread is Kremlin into dust.

It will Peter out soon. Great.

258 notutopia  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:09:23am

re: #206 acwgusa

re: #76 transient

Do you want to know the real reason health care costs are so inflated? One: Malpractice Insurance premiums. The hospital system my mother works for pays 20% off the top for malpractice insurance! 20%! And as far as Medicaid reimbursement.

Two: Drug costs. And I am not talking necessary life sustaining drugs. I’m talking Viagra, and other lifestyle drugs.

Three, ridiculous health regions, with no competition in certain regions. HMO and PPO’s are locked into zones, with no chance of expansion or competition.

Four, lack of trained, professional nursing staff. Nursing is always, always understaffed, and we don’t turn out enough health care workers to cover that, because it isn’t a glamorous position.

None of these, with the exception of three, is anything government policy can fix.

And frankly, I wouldn’t trust a US government health database anyway. Especially those being run by Obama’s former campaign website staff.

Malpractice coverage for OB/Gyn’s, E.R., and Anesthesiology are now into the 35% of base salary range. There has to be some balance here….
Nursing enrollment is going to continue to decline because nursing malpractice insurance rates are climbing as well.
Who wants to practice in a target enriched mine field for hungry lawyers ? Ambulance chasers are a real and valid issue.

259 capitalist piglet  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:09:26am

re: #251 Occasional Reader

F**king hell.

And so it begins.

Is it okay to be alarmed yet?

260 transient  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:09:28am

re: #143 reine.de.tout

And here … If I call for an appointment and it’s urgent, I get to see a doctor the same day - if not urgent, appointment within a week. If after hours, there are “urgent care” clinics open ‘til 11 at night where I can go.

I’m not sure where you are, but many doctors I know schedule patients at 15 minute intervals so they can pay for the overhead. There is simply little/no time scheduled for emergencies. (I considered myself quite lucky when I had an urgent problem last year that my doctor was able to deal with that day in the office.) Oftentimes you will be told if you have an emergency to go to the emergency room. This is a very expensive alternative.

Another problem in my region is that many doctors are going “concierge,” so that they don’t have to schedule patients at 15 minute intervals and can actually take the time to interact with their patients on a personal level, conduct complete histories and physicals, and maybe even have time to think about a difficult case. “Concierge” service comes at a significant premium and is not affordable—or necessary—for everyone.

I think these urgent care centers are a fantastic alternative and can take care of many of the day to day “emergencies” that frankly do not rate an ER visit.

261 sofa  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:09:35am

“Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research ”
FCCCER
sound’s like F’ cker

262 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:10:00am

re: #239 Ford_Prefect

OT, sort of. One of my favorite political cartoonists:

1
2
3

That second one in particular is brilliant.

263 Shr_Nfr  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:10:14am

re: #245 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Wall, then we will just have to stop if before we become a graveyard.

264 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:10:27am

re: #250 buzzsawmonkey

Malpractice will inevitably increase if/when government bureaucracy controls health care, both because of bureaucratic foulups and because of the decreased personal responsiblity, and the overwhelming caseload, of the healthcare providers.

And if you think it is difficult to obtain redress for malpractice now, just wait until you want to try and sue the government.

Also, the ‘Best and the Brightest’ will not even go near the field anymore.

265 transient  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:10:31am

re: #217 SasquatchOnSteroids

Lord have MRSA.

He’s delegated that to his staph.

266 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:11:01am

re: #257 tackle

It will Peter out soon. Great.

Good one!

267 yma o hyd  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:11:08am

re: #229 Shr_Nfr

Not to mention the ugly facts like a teenager in Britain who died recently because she was denied a cat scan. Screaming headaches for a couple of months before she died of a cerebral hemorrhage.

There is what I’d call ‘institutional misogyny’ in the NHS here - and together with the institutionalised ageism, you’ve had it if you’re a woman over a certain age.

268 acwgusa  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:11:35am

re: #258 notutopia

Malpractice coverage for OB/Gyn’s, E.R., and Anesthesiology are now into the 35% of base salary range. There has to be some balance here….
Nursing enrollment is going to continue to decline because nursing malpractice insurance rates are climbing as well.
Who wants to practice in a target enriched mine field for hungry lawyers ? Ambulance chasers are a real and valid issue.

Hit the brakes on the ambulance and watch them bounce of the pavement, then have the coroner scrape them up.

But seriously, tort reform is needed for malpractice. Or, just make it illegal to sue health care providers, except under rigid circumstances.

269 dhg4  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:12:04am

re: #203 Ben Hur

Wiretapping terrorists, bad.

The government monitoring your every move via GPS, good?

Yup.

That’s a thought I had after I posted. :-(

270 meeshlr  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:12:16am

re: #196 martinsmithy

What do you mean by “access”?

271 Throbert McGee  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:12:30am

re: #233 Occasional Reader

Ivan to say right now, these Czar puns are Terrible.

Q. What’s the most popular type of canned fish in Russia?

272 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:12:33am

re: #235 rawmuse

OT, but, heads up, gun owners. ALL gun owners.

HR 45 is moving swiftly through the House.

Required licensing of all firearms owners, ID check, thumbprint, mandatory RENEWAL of licenses with heavy penalties for failure to do so, site check for safe storage and record keeping (this is an intrusion on the 4th amendment, of course).

If it passes…it’s on like Donkey Kong.

273 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:12:46am

re: #250 buzzsawmonkey

Malpractice will inevitably increase if/when government bureaucracy controls health care, both because of bureaucratic foulups and because of the decreased personal responsiblity, and the overwhelming caseload, of the healthcare providers.

And if you think it is difficult to obtain redress for malpractice now, just wait until you want to try and sue the government.

If the Gov. took over health care there would be no malpractice since they would be the payer of damages.

274 realwest  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:13:01am

Right now I live with my 84 year old mother who has type II diabetes. I’m going to be 64 in a couple of months and suffer from a form of cancer that may
be treated with known, albeit expensive, technology - but I AM going to be 64 and my “usefulness” to society, not to mention my Mom’s usefulness to society is probably, by some bureaucratic standard, minimal.
But to us, our rights to proper and timely health care have been duly earned over our respective lifetimes and is not minimal at all; in fact, quite the contrary.
I can’t really comment on this thread, but I do tend to get, violent aggressive when me or mine are threatened.
I really can’t say anything further out of respect for Charles and this blog.

275 joncelli  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:13:10am

re: #268 acwgusa

But seriously, tort reform is needed for malpractice.

The American Trial Lawyers Association is a part owner of the Democratic Party. So, no chance of that.

276 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:13:20am

re: #261 sofa

“Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research ”
FCCCER
sound’s like F’ cker

And then if a woman is picked to head it up, would she be the … [insert]?

277 formercorpsman  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:13:22am

The road to hell is paved with good intent.

278 acwgusa  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:13:28am

re: #273 Nevergiveup

If the Gov. took over health care there would be no malpractice since they would be the payer of damages.

Sure there would. Tax increase passed on to you and me.

279 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:13:46am

re: #262 Occasional Reader

That second one in particular is brilliant.

I’ll say.

280 smokefire  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:13:49am

………..patient, heal thyself

281 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:13:56am

re: #235 rawmuse

OT, but, heads up, gun owners. ALL gun owners.

HR 45 is moving swiftly through the House.

Required licensing of all firearms owners, ID check, thumbprint, mandatory RENEWAL of licenses with heavy penalties for failure to do so, site check for safe storage and record keeping (this is an intrusion on the 4th amendment, of course).

Site check?

282 ladycatnip  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:14:00am

#230 pbird

Its also overused when we don’t take normal prudent care of ourselves and then need repair. I don’t know how to fix that either.

You’re absolutely right. Our nation has become overweight - sedentary lifestyle, smoking, drinking, drugs, and overeating all contribute to our health care costs via heart attacks, cancer, strokes, high b/p, etc.

The problems begin when the government gets involved and starts legislating what we can and cannot eat, or telling us how to live our lives. It’s a catch 22.

Maybe our president can contribute by telling us how he’s going to quit smoking and lead by example.

283 LGoPs  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:14:03am

re: #195 dhg4

Don’t look now but the WaPo is advocating a mileage tax. This would likely involve placing some sort of GPS device on every car so the government would know how far you’ve driven.

I realize that this isn’t as critical the government determining your health, but it’s still intrusive. (It’s also a pretty naked money grab.)

At least the administration shot down the suggestion of former GOP congressman, Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood.

Still there’ve been pilot programs out west so some people think it’s reasonable. Now with a major paper advocating it, this policy is going to get discussed.

Am I missing something here? Isn’t the tax we pay on every gallon of gasoline already a mileage tax?
Not trying to be cute…..just really wondering.
If we’re really considering adding a mileage tax to an already existing gasoline/fuel tax then does it not follow that the next step is to add a tax to cover the costs of monitoring the instrumentation that will be necessary to enforce the mileage tax…….and on and on. Where does it end?

284 debutaunt  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:14:28am

re: #73 buzzsawmonkey

Who would have thought we needed so many czars?
They pop out like clowns from a small clown car.

It was clown czars who made the USSR the great country it is now.

285 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:14:32am

re: #271 Throbert McGee

Q. What’s the most popular type of canned fish in Russia?

Czarkist Tuna?

286 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:15:10am

re: #251 Occasional Reader

F**king hell.

And so it begins.

Don’t worry. I’m sure the bill has to do with ILLEGAL firearms, not people protecting themselves and their property.

287 formercorpsman  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:15:23am

re: #250 buzzsawmonkey

Approaching my 20th year in orthopaedic care, I can tell you I am in the live fire zone.

The public has NO idea what they are getting themselves into.

288 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:15:29am

re: #281 Ben Hur

Site check?

IOW, illegal searches.

289 Afrocity  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:15:36am

re: #243 Occasional Reader

But by hogging all that good health for yourself, you’re taking it away from someone else. And that’s not fair.

/

The difference between my healthcare on welfare as a child vs. now is like night and day. I did not have any choices and most of the doctors did not care. I remember, god this was so condescending but I was having pains in my side. I was 11 and they kept asking me if I was pregnant. I was still playing with Barbie dolls. I kept saying no

“did you have sex?” I was like NO.

This went on for a month and they finally hospitalized me and said I had a colon blockage but geeze.

290 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:15:50am

re: #283 LGoPs

Am I missing something here? Isn’t the tax we pay on every gallon of gasoline already a mileage tax?
Not trying to be cute…..just really wondering.

Yep. As the link points out, the proposal is a way of punishing people for being responsible… for driving more fuel-efficient vehicles, that is. It’s shameful.

291 LGoPs  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:16:03am

re: #282 ladycatnip

#230 pbird


You’re absolutely right. Our nation has become overweight - sedentary lifestyle, smoking, drinking, drugs, and overeating all contribute to our health care costs via heart attacks, cancer, strokes, high b/p, etc.

The problems begin when the government gets involved and starts legislating what we can and cannot eat, or telling us how to live our lives. It’s a catch 22.

Maybe our president can contribute by telling us how he’s going to quit smoking and lead by example.

Democrats never lead by example. Their leadership style is “Do as I say, not as I do”…….

292 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:16:08am
293 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:16:12am

re: #203 Ben Hur

Wiretapping terrorists, bad.

The government monitoring your every move via GPS, good?

Yes.

Didn’t you know, we’re far more dangerous than a crazed jihadist?

294 JohnAdams  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:16:17am

re: #283 LGoPs

It doesn’t, silly.

295 dhg4  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:16:18am

re: #225 Kosh’s Shadow

The whole 0bama administration is making me sick. Their apologizing to the UN in the Durban conference; their complete incompetence to where I believe Iran and North Korea will get nukes, is all bad for my heart and blood pressure.

And they’ve doing all that to make you answerable to the health czar!

Bwa Ha Ha Ha.

:-)

296 realwest  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:16:20am

re: #279 Ward Cleaver
Thank you for the upding on my #274. This is not a fucking joke to me or to my mom - this is as real a threat to us as anything else Obama has proposed.

297 smokefire  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:16:25am

re: #281 Ben Hur

Site check?

…………….what does the 4th amendment have to do with anything?

298 notutopia  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:16:26am

re: #268 acwgusa

Hit the brakes on the ambulance and watch them bounce of the pavement, then have the coroner scrape them up.

But seriously, tort reform is needed for malpractice. Or, just make it illegal to sue health care providers, except under rigid circumstances.

Buzzsawmonkey brought up the issue of trying to file suit against a government health care worker.
Military hospitals and physicians/surgeons are already currently exempt from suites.

299 pbird  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:16:39am

re: #180 Honorary Yooper

Neurosurgeon?

They used to be called Mortician.

300 rawmuse  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:16:53am

re: #272 Oh no…Sand People!

If it passes…it’s on like Donkey Kong.

The Bill has provisions for the transfer of firearms, all will have to be done by a Federal dealer (with fees, of course, this will be a revenue bill as well as a regulatory bill).

So, when my Mom gave me all my deceased father’s shotguns, even ones owned by my grandfather and my great grandfather, that would now make both me and my Mom criminals.

301 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:16:56am

Charles, we need another tag category … Puns.
This is the greatest pun-thread I’ve seen in my time here.

302 Throbert McGee  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:17:02am

re: #285 Occasional Reader

Czarkist Tuna?

Hey, good one!

(But I was thinking “czardines.”)

303 zombie  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:17:25am

Totally OT, but I just checked my email and almost deleted (thinking it was spam) this intriguing new rant sent to the Mohammed Image Archive from Malaysia — and note the subject line:

“From: Najat Fallous
Subject: Gulp down your steaming shit!

The depictions I have for you will better serve to depict your partial scatological ignorance of a great religion that has and is and will ever be spreading, wheteher despicable, narrow-minded, biased and ill-informed blokes of your kind like it, or not. Prophet Mohammed PBUH, had you eyes that really see and ears that really hear and a mind that seeks the truth and probes the scientific facts embeded in the Koran, the thousands examples of humility,tolerance,peace and love and respect of the environment and the animals, all mentioned in Mohammed PBUH sayings, you would impartially get to understand how this illiterate man toppled the pagan despots of his time by simply rallying a bench of “bedwin” tribes around ISLAM, that is one God, one man and woman, one heart and one destiny. Here’s just one reference ,among thousands, for any sensible reasonable mind to read and know about Mohammed  far from the “excrement you tell and show. So,please yourself in the worthless muck you wallow in, but remember and bear witness that you all SHALL RISE to answer for all your offences if you do not repent; just then we’ll all see who would have the last laugh. Do your best then and keep up your extrata; it affects us nothing. Truth will prevail.”

304 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:17:28am

re: #289 Afrocity

That speaks to so many issues, and such unhappy ones, that it makes me want to scream.

305 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:17:28am

re: #292 buzzsawmonkey

“If you want to know the future of mankind, imagine a boot stamping on a human face—forever.”

—O’Brien, to Winston Smith, in “1984”

So Obama’s got the Folsom Street vote locked up…

306 smokefire  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:17:30am

re: #286 Ben Hur

…………yeah right, and I’m from the government and I’m here to help you.

307 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:17:34am
308 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:17:56am

re: #296 realwest

Thank you for the upding on my #274. This is not a fucking joke to me or to my mom - this is as real a threat to us as anything else Obama has proposed.

You’re welcome. Every human person has intrinsic dignity, but that concept has been on the decline since January 22, 1973.

309 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:18:39am

re: #307 buzzsawmonkey

“But look! It’s free!”

—fish, just before swallowing a nice shiny lure

Mmmm… topwater lure.

310 joncelli  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:18:42am

re: #303 zombie

Gulp down your steaming shit!

Rotating title nominee.

311 formercorpsman  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:18:44am

re: #307 buzzsawmonkey

No doubt.

312 acwgusa  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:18:59am

re: #213 Ben Hur

In short, John Edwards.

Pretty much.

313 Dustyvet  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:19:26am

re: #301 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Charles, we need another tag category … Puns.
This is the greatest pun-thread I’ve seen in my time here.

Lets all do the The Lobster Mash!

314 Irish Rose  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:19:36am

re: #303 zombie

Did you reply?
/

315 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:19:39am
316 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:19:54am

re: #300 rawmuse

The Bill has provisions for the transfer of firearms, all will have to be done by a Federal dealer (with fees, of course, this will be a revenue bill as well as a regulatory bill).

So, when my Mom gave me all my deceased father’s shotguns, even ones owned by my grandfather and my great grandfather, that would now make both me and my Mom criminals.

And, “Hey son, you are now old enough to go hunting. Here is your .22 rifle. All we have to do is take you down to the Fire-arms dealer, finger print you like a criminal, register this gun to you, make sure that if it ever gets taken you use the 72 federal mandated hours to say it’s missing so that you don’t go to prison! Aren’t you excited to go hunting?…What? Why are you crying son?”

317 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:19:55am

re: #303 zombie

Do your best then and keep up your extrata

Rotating title nominee.

318 redstateredneck  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:20:10am

The idea of the government being in charge of my health care scares the crap outta me.

319 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:20:17am

re: #288 Ward Cleaver

IOW, illegal searches.

Warrantless, yes.
No evidence that a crime has been commited.
No reasonable suspicion that a crime MIGHT be committed.
An entire bureaucracy to carry the searches out.

/reminds me of Oda Nobunaga’s Sword Hunt

320 Dustyvet  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:20:22am

re: #302 Throbert McGee

Hey, good one!

(But I was thinking “czardines.”)

Roe, Roe, Roe Your Boat!

321 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:20:47am

Obama’s “remedy” is like a bullet to the head.

322 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:20:51am
323 realwest  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:20:51am

re: #287 formercorpsman
Hi formercorpsman - well mom and I are also in the free fire zone (please see my #274 above) albeit on the other side of the fence.
Of all the bullshit, STUPID things Obama has thought of, this may be one of the worst.

324 notutopia  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:20:53am

re: #312 acwgusa

Pretty much.

John Edwards made his millions chasing ambulances and successfully targeting healthcare providers in NC.

325 smokefire  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:20:56am

re: #313 Dustyvet

Lets all do the The Lobster Mash!

……………and for those New Englander’s

The Lobstah Maash

326 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:21:15am

re: #320 Dustyvet

Roe, Roe, Roe Your Boat!

Oh, just start Wade’ing the water is shallow…

327 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:21:31am

I can only authoritatively speak about Dentistry. But from what I have seen, the same applies to Medicine also. Unfortunately Many Dentists treatment plan according to the type of Insurance you have. And that’s not good. I am not talking about work that is just OK, but could be better. I am talking about near criminal treatment. And if we ever get socialized medicine, watch out!

328 Vicious Babushka  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:21:38am

re: #86 Lizard by the Bay

I feel sorry for the people who started medical school already. They just don’t realize that when they’re getting paid a mailman’s wages to work as a government doctor their odds of ever paying off their med school debts are about even with us ever being able to pay back the porkulus debt.

They will compete for jobs with graduates from third world med schools.

329 redstateredneck  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:21:43am

re: #322 ploome hineni

OT

ever wonder what happened to Cinderella’s ugly step-sisters?

here they are

Who are those wenches?

330 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:21:45am
331 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:21:46am

re: #319 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Warrantless, yes.
No evidence that a crime has been commited.
No reasonable suspicion that a crime MIGHT be committed.
An entire bureaucracy to carry the searches out.

But remember, Bush “shredded the Constitution” and took away our civil liberties…

332 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:22:00am

re: #303 zombie

Isn’t nice to be loved?
/

333 Kragar  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:22:09am

Another stellar performance from an Obamaton at fiscal sustainability summit:

Lawrence Summers, head of the National Economic Council, fell asleep on the podium, most attendees, including Republicans, appear to have appreciated the exercise.

334 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:22:20am

re: #316 Oh no…Sand People!

And, “Hey son, you are now old enough to go hunting. Here is your .22 rifle. All we have to do is take you down to the Fire-arms dealer, finger print you like a criminal, register this gun to you, make sure that if it ever gets taken you use the 72 federal mandated hours to say it’s missing so that you don’t go to prison! Aren’t you excited to go hunting?…What? Why are you crying son?”

“Son, don’t worry, you can’t even have this gun yet, you have to pass a background check…”

335 realwest  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:22:39am

re: #321 Ward Cleaver
“Obama’s “remedy” is like a bullet to the head.” Only not so quick and “merciful”.

336 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:22:56am

Czar = Caesar = Empire = No longer the Republic, check the history of Rome, look where we are heading.

I am dismayed.

337 redstateredneck  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:23:04am

re: #327 Nevergiveup

I can only authoritatively speak about Dentistry. But from what I have seen, the same applies to Medicine also. Unfortunately Many Dentists treatment plan according to the type of Insurance you have. And that’s not good. I am not talking about work that is just OK, but could be better. I am talking about near criminal treatment. And if we ever get socialized medicine, watch out!

My dentist explained national health care to me in very simple terms as he was putting a crown on. He told me he would have pulled that sucker and not crowned it.

338 acwgusa  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:23:31am

“What do you think of Euthanasia?”

“I think Asian Girls are hot!”

339 notutopia  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:23:42am

re: #327 Nevergiveup

I can only authoritatively speak about Dentistry. But from what I have seen, the same applies to Medicine also. Unfortunately Many Dentists treatment plan according to the type of Insurance you have. And that’s not good. I am not talking about work that is just OK, but could be better. I am talking about near criminal treatment. And if we ever get socialized medicine, watch out!

You are correct. You get the quality of care you pay for.
Just like anything else in a free market society.
Free care= low quality for the masses

340 dhg4  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:23:43am

re: #283 LGoPs

Am I missing something here? Isn’t the tax we pay on every gallon of gasoline already a mileage tax?
Not trying to be cute…..just really wondering.
If we’re really considering adding a mileage tax to an already existing gasoline/fuel tax then does it not follow that the next step is to add a tax to cover the costs of monitoring the instrumentation that will be necessary to enforce the mileage tax…….and on and on. Where does it end?

You see out west where people have bought lots of hybrids, they don’t buy as much gas so government doesn’t get the tax revenues they were expecting.

Nationally, the high cost of gas last year caused people to drive less so that government, again, didn’t the tax revenues they were expecting.

The idea behind a mileage tax is that people who acted responsibly or frugally shouldn’t be able to dodge paying the taxes the government thinks it deserves.

It’s like the Beatles sang, “If you have a car I’ll tax the street …”

341 formercorpsman  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:23:44am

re: #323 realwest

I actually was reading it, and had to take a phone call.

Yes, you will be the vict.. patients in this wonderful plan.

Like everything else, it will be a disaster, and touted as a victory in the press.

342 transient  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:23:48am

re: #246 Shr_Nfr

You raise an interesting point. If the standard of medical care is to give a patient a series of tests and the government does not allow it, does the patient still sue the doctor? This has the potential to increase malpractice insurance, not decrease it. My father in law stopped his pediatric practice because the burden of paperwork between the HMOs and Medicaid was too great for he and his wife to handle.

An independent doctor can always recommend a test, but it is ultimately up to the patient to have it done. In some cases, if the doctor or institution that should be able to perform that test doesn’t want to, because they won’t get paid for it, they find subtle ways to steer the patient elsewhere. (“You should go to X facility—they have more experience in cases like yours.”)

In a “closed” system like an HMO or socialized medicine, the doctor will be discouraged from ordering expensive tests, but he is still liable. There have been a very few cases, IIRC, of people winning suits against the HMOs themselves. And of course, good luck winning against the government. (It is possible to win a case against a military doctor, for example, but it’s a long shot from what I understand.)

343 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:23:50am

re: #268 acwgusa

Hit the brakes on the ambulance and watch them bounce of the pavement, then have the coroner scrape them up.

But seriously, tort reform is needed for malpractice. Or, just make it illegal to sue health care providers, except under rigid circumstances.

There are a couple of problems that are raising malpractice rates.
For Ob/Gyn, babies who used to die now are kept alive, at high cost both for medical care and home care. This may or may not be the fault of the medical staff, but juries don’t want to stick the parents with the bills, as they can’t pay them.
Who pays? Generally, the parents could not on their own, and their insurance will only cover to age 25 or so. Their insurance would prefer the malpractice carrier pays.
If insurance were reformed in some way that the regular medical care were paid for with regular insurance, the up-front cost to malpractice would go down. The medical costs would still be there, but spread into the general insurance pool.
Of course, under government health care, the standards at birth would go down, and it wouldn’t be considered cost effective to keep the baby alive.

The more easily handled one is that frivolous cases need to be charged back to the person suing. This goes for all tort reform. Where there is a real case, lawyers would still take them on contingency, but they wouldn’t be looking for cases with no real merit, just to take a settlement.

344 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:23:57am

re: #338 acwgusa

“What do you think of Euthanasia?”

“I think Asian Girls are hot!”

Is this turning into another Bai Ling thread?

345 rawmuse  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:24:08am

re: #281 Ben Hur

Site check?

Yes, that is a site.

346 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:24:13am

re: #337 redstateredneck

My dentist explained national health care to me in very simple terms as he was putting a crown on. He told me he would have pulled that sucker and not crowned it.

Very likely. That is what happens with Medicaid and some low level plans today.

347 Russkilitlover  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:24:27am

re: #59 martinsmithy

I have to agree with you. Before national health care became such a foreseeable future, all I heard from anyone was complaints about insurance and healthcare - with horror stories of bureaucratic insurance despots making life and death decisions.

348 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:24:27am

re: #316 Oh no…Sand People!

My mom and dad did in fact give me a rifle for Christmas when I was a teenager.

349 Dustyvet  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:24:28am

re: #326 Oh no…Sand People!

Oh, just start Wade’ing the water is shallow…

How Much Is That Dogfish In the Window?

350 bellamags  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:24:30am

I feel like a lizard trapped in a glass vase. Try to get out, slide back down. Try to get out, slide back down.

351 acwgusa  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:24:31am

re: #344 Ward Cleaver

Is this turning into another Bai Ling thread?

That was a quote from a USC quarterback.

352 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:24:31am

re: #315 Iron Fist

That part bears repeating. What is being developed is a National Socialist America, in the name of saving us from catastrophy.

It’s kind of like getting hard radiation treatments for a wart. Yeah, it’ll probably kill the wart, but the side effects may kill you.

Did you know that before they insert the needle into the arm of a condemned prisoner, they wipe off the spot with disinfectant?

Sorta like that.

353 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:24:43am

re: #331 Occasional Reader

But remember, Bush “shredded the Constitution” and took away our civil liberties…

Yeah, but he’s in a bush league compared to these guys.

354 LionOfDixon  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:24:49am

The title of President is not fitting for the current occupant of the White House. From now on his title shall be: Chairman Obamao.

355 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:25:06am

re: #351 acwgusa

That was a quote from a USC quarterback.

That figures.

Leinert?

356 notutopia  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:25:10am

re: #330 buzzsawmonkey

I wonder what government-mandated health care would do to a “reasonable expectation of privacy” which currently prevents such things as forcible cavity searches without a court order.

You’d be given a treatment plan for colitis.
One warmed up proctoscopy coming up!

357 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:25:16am

re: #328 Alouette

They will compete for jobs with graduates from third world med schools.

The upper-middle class, and the rich will still use private doctors.

Until they’re made illegal.

358 acwgusa  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:25:18am

re: #354 LionOfDixon

The title of President is not fitting for the current occupant of the White House. From now on his title shall be: Chairman Obamao.

I was thinking more of Barack O’Carter.

359 Kragar  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:25:34am

re: #344 Ward Cleaver

Is this turning into another Bai Ling thread?

God I hope not.

Now if we’re talking Yumiko Shaku thats another story.

360 acwgusa  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:26:04am

re: #355 Ward Cleaver

No. I think it was the backup QB. Either way, I laughed.

361 Leonidas Hoplite  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:26:15am

I’m not a big fan of David Brooks but this is an interesting read

And yet the gap between my epistemological modesty and their liberal worldviews has been evident over the past few weeks. The people in the administration are surrounded by a galaxy of unknowns, and yet they see this economic crisis as an opportunity to expand their reach, to take bigger risks and, as Obama said on Saturday, to tackle every major problem at once.

I worry that we’re operating far beyond our economic knowledge. Every time the administration releases an initiative, I read 20 different economists with 20 different opinions. I worry that we lack the political structures to regain fiscal control.

I have to go to the keyboard each morning hoping Barack Obama is going to prove me wrong.

You can stop worrying, Mr. Brooks, The One will not prove you wrong.

362 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:26:32am

re: #344 Ward Cleaver

Is this turning into another Bai Ling thread?

Suzy’s the Wong one to bring up on this thread.

363 calvin coolidge  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:26:41am

Thank you for calling your “health czar” hotline for your medical emergency. Your holding time will be approximately…………4 hours. Please take an aspirin and call your funeral director in the morning. Have a nice day and remember…….we’re your government and we feel your pain.

364 Afrocity  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:26:42am

re: #304 Dianna

That speaks to so many issues, and such unhappy ones, that it makes me want to scream.

Besides they wasted tax payer money on the pregnancy test they gave me—a eleven year old. I didn’t even have a monthly friend yet. I remember them three males doctors, sent my mom out of the room, because of course I was keep some dark secret from her…Their theory was I had sex, got pregnant before my monthly started and so I did not know. At one point I started laughing at them and asked if I had appendicitis. Little ol me read the World Book Encyclopedia and came up with better explanations than they did.

365 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:26:47am

re: #360 acwgusa

No. I think it was the backup QB. Either way, I laughed.

Would that be Cassel? I mean, wasn’t he Leinert’s backup?

366 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:26:55am

re: #339 notutopia

You are correct. You get the quality of care you pay for.
Just like anything else in a free market society.
Free care= low quality for the masses

Yes, but I still have my standards, and have turned people away from my practice rather than do sub-standard treatment. All my patients get the same treatment ( for better or for worse? ). If they choose to elect to find a lower standard elsewhere, well so be it. But I like to sleep at night.

367 smokefire  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:26:57am

re: #354 LionOfDixon

The title of President is not fitting for the current occupant of the White House. From now on his title shall be: Chairman Obamao.

……………..Or how about Most Benevolent Ruler for Life

368 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:27:06am

re: #362 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Suzy’s the Wong one to bring up on this thread.

I dig that movie.

369 Gretchen  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:27:12am

re: #282 ladycatnip

Well they gave money to the banks and believe they should set compensation levels, they will provide healthcare so they can regulate our lifestyles, how about not providing treatment for STDs to people who are promiscuous, or making welfare recipients get drug testing?

Yeah, I didn’t think so. Don’t get me wrong I don’t advocate any of it, but I don’t advocate the way any of the money has been spent.

370 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:27:14am

re: #341 formercorpsman

and touted as a victory in the press.

I’ve already had to hear about Obama’s “stunning political victory” in getting a bill passed (Porkulus) in a Congress decisively controlled by his own party. Well-nigh miraculous, that.

Speaking of the media, NPR had a piece this morning about the wonderful idea of al-Jazeera (English) getting licensed in the US. They kinda sorta forget to mention all the jihad-support n’stuff, of course. And while they gave a few seconds of airtime to one or two opposing voices, they were invariably described as “complaining” about al-Jazeera.

371 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:27:14am

re: #357 Ben Hur

The upper-middle classmembers of Congress, The Senate and the rich will still use private doctors.

Fixed that for ya!

372 notutopia  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:27:18am

re: #350 bellamags

I feel like a lizard trapped in a glass vase. Try to get out, slide back down. Try to get out, slide back down.

Great analogy!
Break the Glass!

373 acwgusa  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:27:57am

re: #365 Ward Cleaver

Would that be Cassel? I mean, wasn’t he Leinert’s backup?

I just thought it was a really funny quote.

374 realwest  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:28:10am

re: #318 redstateredneck
Hey {red} if you think it scares the crap outta you, please see my #274.
And when people are scared, we are told that the normal responses are to flee or to fight.
My response to this horseshit would be a normal one.

375 vxbush  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:28:46am

Here’s the thing: the folks who are setting up these czars and these systems are going to leave a way out so that they don’t have to do what the masses do. So anyone in congress or who has a federal employee insurance program will not end up having to have their care reviewed by FCCCER.

Just read the fine print, and you will discover the loopholes that allow them to get specialized treatment.

376 Golem Akbar  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:28:50am

re: #368 Ward Cleaver

I dig that movie.


Personally, I Miss Saigon.

377 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:28:59am

re: #350 bellamags

I feel like a lizard trapped in a glass vase. Try to get out, slide back down. Try to get out, slide back down.

The Health Czar will give you traction.

378 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:29:16am

That poor “I’ve fallen and can’t get up” lady hasn’t a chance.

379 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:29:25am

re: #371 Conservative in Liberal Hands

Fixed that for ya!

Like the old saying goes:

“Life is like a shit sandwich. The more bread you have, the less shit you have to eat.”

380 Killer Tomato  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:29:32am

I watched a show on TV the other night about Progeria - there’s a couple in Britain with a 9 year old daughter who has the disease. They were all excited about a potential treatment that had been developed in the States… and all I could think was, what the heck is going to happen to everyone around the world when the US socializes medicine?

381 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:29:45am
382 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:30:02am
383 notutopia  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:30:11am

re: #366 Nevergiveup

Yes, but I still have my standards, and have turned people away from my practice rather than do sub-standard treatment. All my patients get the same treatment ( for better or for worse? ). If they choose to elect to find a lower standard elsewhere, well so be it. But I like to sleep at night.

As an independent, you have that option now.
If they succeed in nationalizing all healthcare services, we’ll all be practicing cookbook substandard care.

384 realwest  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:30:54am

re: #363 calvin coolidge
“we’re your government and we feel your pain.”
They are and they will.

385 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:31:09am

re: #378 SasquatchOnSteroids

That poor “I’ve fallen and can’t get up” lady hasn’t a chance.

She’ll push the panic button, and someone will be dispatched to euthanize her.

386 Golem Akbar  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:31:28am

re: #380 Killer Tomato

I watched a show on TV the other night about Progeria - there’s a couple in Britain with a 9 year old daughter who has the disease. They were all excited about a potential treatment that had been developed in the States… and all I could think was, what the heck is going to happen to everyone around the world when the US socializes medicine?


My guess is that some countries will be very pro-active in developing tax incentives for drug research. The US will have to outsource its medical research, maybe to Mumbai or Hong Kong.

387 aggieann  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:31:38am

re: #26 so.cal.swede

Funny. In Sweden, right now, the government has all the hospitals agree to this “guarantee of service” which means when you seek non-emergency care, you must be guaranteed to see a doctor within 7 days. And if the doctor sees it is needed, he will refer you to a specialist, and you must be seen within 90 days. Then if treatment is needed, you must be treated within 90 days.

Nice, but, the hospitals can’t meet that arrangement, so hospitals are quietly asking their doctors not to issue referrals - that way they get out of the 7-90-90 agreement, and the heavy fines imposed on the hospitals if they do not fill them.

Comparable to “ambulance stacking” in the UK, where ambulances with patients stay in the parking lots for hours on end in order not to violate the regulation that patients who enter the hospital be seen by a doctor within X number of hours.

388 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:31:56am

re: #383 notutopia

As an independent, you have that option now.
If they succeed in nationalizing all healthcare services, we’ll all be practicing cookbook substandard care.

Yes. But dentists will be the last ones to be socialized. Like in Israel. And by then I’ll be retired, dead, or maybe on Active Duty.

389 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:31:57am

re: #376 Golem Akbar

Personally, I Miss Saigon.

Love is a many-splendored thing

/and the title DOES have the hyphen

390 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:32:21am

re: #380 Killer Tomato

I watched a show on TV the other night about Progeria - there’s a couple in Britain with a 9 year old daughter who has the disease. They were all excited about a potential treatment that had been developed in the States… and all I could think was, what the heck is going to happen to everyone around the world when the US socializes medicine?

They’ll suffer. And they’re won’t be any incentive to find cures for diseases anymore, as the patients will be allowed encouraged to die.

391 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:33:17am
392 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:33:18am

re: #370 Occasional Reader

I’ve already had to hear about Obama’s “stunning political victory” in getting a bill passed (Porkulus) in a Congress decisively controlled by his own party. Well-nigh miraculous, that.

Well put.

393 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:33:19am

re: #390 Ward Cleaver

I look forward to leaving when my time comes.

394 rawmuse  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:33:22am

re: #382 Iron Fist

This is the way these things “progress”. I live in CA. and it is a perfect laboratory for the machinations of gun grabbers.

395 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:33:23am

re: #385 Ward Cleaver

She’ll push the panic button, and someone will be dispatched to euthanize her.

Paramedic Cody, execute order #66.

396 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:33:34am

re: #387 aggieann

Comparable to “ambulance stacking” in the UK, where ambulances with patients stay in the parking lots for hours on end in order not to violate the regulation that patients who enter the hospital be seen by a doctor within X number of hours.

That should help out the auto industry (at least for chassis-cab trucks), and the ambulance module builders.

397 redstateredneck  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:33:39am

re: #364 Afrocity

I remember them three males doctors, sent my mom out of the room, because of course I was keep some dark secret from her.


And that’s when the fight would have started if I were the mom. Bless her heart; she was probably taught to be respectful of the doctors…what a load of crap.

398 LGoPs  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:34:59am

re: #375 vxbush

Here’s the thing: the folks who are setting up these czars and these systems are going to leave a way out so that they don’t have to do what the masses do. So anyone in congress or who has a federal employee insurance program will not end up having to have their care reviewed by FCCCER.

Just read the fine print, and you will discover the loopholes that allow them to get specialized treatment.

Reminds me of the bullshit underlying the classless workers paradise under the old Soviet Union. They never were classless. There was a totally separate lifestyle for the Party’s leaders and their apparatchiks. They merely replaced the Czarist aristocracy with their own political aristocracy.
Collectivism, in all its forms, is nothing but a big fat hypocritical lie. And it will be no different here……….

399 Ben Hur  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:35:10am

Logan’s Run.

400 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:35:12am

re: #370 Occasional Reader

Speaking of the media, NPR had a piece this morning about the wonderful idea of al-Jazeera (English) getting licensed in the US. They kinda sorta forget to mention all the jihad-support n’stuff, of course. And while they gave a few seconds of airtime to one or two opposing voices, they were invariably described as “complaining” about al-Jazeera.

They almost mentioned Walter in that report! (They talked about when Al-J went to Golden, CO.)

401 realwest  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:35:17am

re: #341 formercorpsman

I actually was reading it, and had to take a phone call.

Yes, you will be the vict.. patients in this wonderful plan.

Like everything else, it will be a disaster, and touted as a victory in the press.

But suppose some of the “patients” in this wonderful plan, seeing NO FUTURE AT ALL, decide to make changes to the plan?

402 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:35:40am

I really wouldn’t sweat this, it’s all part of the plan to stimulate the economy. Just like rumors have sparked a huge demand for guns, now there will be a huge demand spike for health care before the Tsar starts acting. Alllll just part of the plan….. Stimulus!

/////

403 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:35:52am
404 Dustyvet  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:36:10am

re: #389 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Love is a many-splendored thing

/and the title DOES have the hyphen

Youtube Video

405 redstateredneck  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:36:27am

re: #374 realwest

Hey {red} if you think it scares the crap outta you, please see my #274.
And when people are scared, we are told that the normal responses are to flee or to fight.
My response to this horseshit would be a normal one.

I know your situation {real}. I’ll stand with you, pal.

406 ErnieG  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:36:30am

re: #41 acwgusa

Obama, you feckless nitwit, statistical averages KILL people!

I once had a statistics professor who said, “Be careful about drawing conclusions from averages. The average American has one breast and one testicle.”

407 Reluctant Democrat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:36:49am

He needs this czar and all his other czars because he wants to solidify and centralize power within the White House, to act without Congress’ or the public’s input. IOW he’s an imperial president, usurping power not vested in his office by the Constitution, an imperial president.

I guess it was bad with Bush but good with Obama, according to the silent media.

408 rawmuse  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:37:09am

re: #404 Dustyvet

Love is a Many Splintered Thing.

409 pat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:37:13am

My father worked for a plantation. They had the Doctor. That is where you went. You got the treatment they had, not what you wanted. Forward to the Past.

410 vxbush  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:37:13am

re: #406 ErnieG

I once had a statistics professor who said, “Be careful about drawing conclusions from averages. The average American has one breast and one testicle.”

HA! Bravo, sir. Dingworthy.

411 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:37:20am
412 pbird  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:37:23am

re: #267 yma o hyd

There is what I’d call ‘institutional misogyny’ in the NHS here - and together with the institutionalised ageism, you’ve had it if you’re a woman over a certain age.

That is true here also. The last thing a busy tired doctor wants to see is a middleaged woman with *pain* and so on.

413 bellamags  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:37:30am

re: #406 ErnieG

I once had a statistics professor who said, “Be careful about drawing conclusions from averages. The average American has one breast and one testicle.”

AWESOME. I love that. T-shirt worthy.

We need an LGF T-shirt store.

414 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:37:39am

One more thing: You better get out and buy a car before the only thing available are stylized golf carts….

//// Stimulus!

415 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:37:43am

re: #406 ErnieG

I once had a statistics professor who said, “Be careful about drawing conclusions from averages. The average American has one breast and one testicle.”

Charles, quick! Delete that comment before someone in Washington sees it!

416 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:37:56am

re: #404 Dustyvet

The one-and-only thing I HATE about that movie is the ending.
Damn-near don’t watch it because of that.

417 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:38:01am

It’s just a flesh wound…

418 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:38:03am

re: #403 buzzsawmonkey

And in his plan he had a doctor
eieio
With a doc doc here
and a doc doc there
here a doc
there a doc
we wanna know what’s up doc

419 realwest  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:38:08am

re: #393 Ojoe Will you look forward to it if some fucking bureaucrat or politician over rules your doctor’s decision and lets you die?

420 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:38:12am

re: #400 wrenchwench

They almost mentioned Walter in that report! (They talked about when Al-J went to Golden, CO.)

Yep, that’s the one.

I see I’m not the only lizard who tortures myself with NPR “news”.

421 transient  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:38:19am

re: #258 notutopia
re: #206 acwgusa

Do you want to know the real reason health care costs are so inflated? One: Malpractice Insurance premiums. The hospital system my mother works for pays 20% off the top for malpractice insurance! 20%! And as far as Medicaid reimbursement.

Two: Drug costs. And I am not talking necessary life sustaining drugs. I’m talking Viagra, and other lifestyle drugs.

Three, ridiculous health regions, with no competition in certain regions. HMO and PPO’s are locked into zones, with no chance of expansion or competition.

Four, lack of trained, professional nursing staff. Nursing is always, always understaffed, and we don’t turn out enough health care workers to cover that, because it isn’t a glamorous position.

None of these, with the exception of three, is anything government policy can fix.

And frankly, I wouldn’t trust a US government health database anyway. Especially those being run by Obama’s former campaign website staff.

No argument from me. Except that the government could effect tort reform, if it had the will. No sign of that on the horizon. Don’t expect it from this administration for sure.

Nursing is extremely understaffed, but I’m not sure that it’s for lack of trying. I think it’s just too hard a job for too little pay, and not enough people are interested in it. We are importing nurses from third world countries (Philippines, for example) to make up the shortfall. I’m not aware of the nursing malpractice issue that notutopia pointed out, but will take his/her word for it. It wouldn’t surprise me.

There is also increasing reliance on physician’s assistants and RNs to do some of what doctors used to do, and on LPNs and technicians to do what RNs used to do, for cost savings. Look for more of that, whatever system we end up with.

General point: for anyone who IS interested in a stable job in a declining economy, though—health care is it. Health care industry, as far as I’m aware, has seen no significant decline in business and the baby boomers are going to require a lot of care for the next few decades.

422 notutopia  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:38:35am

OT This is Awesome News!

Cancer Treatment Developments From Tel Aviv

The new drug delivery technology, developed at Tel Aviv University, enables drugs to specifically target cancer cells, leaving surrounding healthy cells intact and reducing the unpleasant side effects of chemotherapy

thentherewaslight.com

423 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:38:49am

18:56 State Department: $900 million in Palestinian aid won`t be going through Hamas (Haaretz)

How stupid does the State Department think we all are? Or are they that stupid? Or am I just wasting my time? Pass the Scotch please.

424 transient  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:39:11am

re: #356 notutopia

You’d be given a treatment plan for colitis.
One warmed up proctoscopy coming up!

What are you smoking?
It costs extra to warm it up!

425 Macker  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:39:14am

re: #413 bellamags

A thousand updings for that…if they were available.

426 redheadredstate  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:39:15am

Story about the UK’s National Health that will show you whats to come. Four years ago my Irish friend Sarah was suffering from debilitating hip pain (she was 19 at the time). She was a life-long Irish dancer and the UK doc diagnosed her with degenerative arthritis in her left hip probably resulting from her dancing. The doc told her there was nothing they could do and sent her on her way. Later that year she came over to the US (Texas) to help teach the kids dancing at a local school. On our own several parents pitched in and took her to US doc who promptly wrote her several prescriptions (for pain, for inflamation and such) and sent her to a PT to teach her some exercises to help with the condition. The UK doc had written off a 19 year old. It was hinted at that one of the reasons for the UK doc’s decision was based on the fact that Sarah had “abused her body” by dancing for so long and causing the injury. This chilled me at the time and it does even more now that we are under the O admin. Sarah told me that her US visit literally has saved her years of pain.

427 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:39:16am

re: #419 realwest

No, I’m gonna walk out into the woods, maybe my wife will be there with me.

428 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:39:18am

re: #399 Ben Hur

Logan’s Run.

Yeah, what I said.

429 yma o hyd  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:39:28am

re: #387 aggieann

Comparable to “ambulance stacking” in the UK, where ambulances with patients stay in the parking lots for hours on end in order not to violate the regulation that patients who enter the hospital be seen by a doctor within X number of hours.

Yep - four hours is the government-approved ‘target’.
Meanwhile, people are dying because the ambulances are not out and available to pick them up.
Waiting three hours for an ambulance in a city, not a rural area beyond the sticks, but a city! - thats National Healthcare for you!

430 Dustyvet  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:39:35am

re: #416 pre-Boomer Marine brat

The one-and-only thing I HATE about that movie is the ending.
Damn-near don’t watch it because of that.

I agree…:***(

431 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:40:05am

re: #422 notutopia

OT This is Awesome News!

Cancer Treatment Developments From Tel Aviv

The new drug delivery technology, developed at Tel Aviv University, enables drugs to specifically target cancer cells, leaving surrounding healthy cells intact and reducing the unpleasant side effects of chemotherapy

[Link: thentherewaslight.com…]

And what are they working on at Gaza U?

432 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:40:06am

re: #408 rawmuse

Love is a Many Splintered Thing.

I would have appreciated you Holden off on that one.

433 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:40:07am

re: #419 realwest

Nobody will “let” me anything, I have more faith than that.

434 acwgusa  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:40:08am

re: #421 transient

re: #206 acwgusa

No argument from me. Except that the government could effect tort reform, if it had the will. No sign of that on the horizon. Don’t expect it from this administration for sure.

Nursing is extremely understaffed, but I’m not sure that it’s for lack of trying. I think it’s just too hard a job for too little pay, and not enough people are interested in it. We are importing nurses from third world countries (Philippines, for example) to make up the shortfall. I’m not aware of the nursing malpractice issue that notutopia pointed out, but will take his/her word for it. It wouldn’t surprise me.

There is also increasing reliance on physician’s assistants and RNs to do some of what doctors used to do, and on LPNs and technicians to do what RNs used to do, for cost savings. Look for more of that, whatever system we end up with.

General point: for anyone who IS interested in a stable job in a declining economy, though—health care is it. Health care industry, as far as I’m aware, has seen no significant decline in business and the baby boomers are going to require a lot of care for the next few decades.

I wouldn’t except this current administration to effect any reform that would help Americans.

435 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:40:13am

re: #406 ErnieG

I once had a statistics professor who said, “Be careful about drawing conclusions from averages. The average American has one breast and one testicle.”

Great analogy.

Is it also true that a chicken runs on one leg half the time?

436 acwgusa  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:40:53am

re: #434 acwgusa

I wouldn’t except this current administration to effect any reform that would help Americans.

except=expect! Damn my bad grammar!

437 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:40:59am

re: #424 transient

What are you smoking?
It costs extra to warm it up!

No because it’s not cleaned after ……ah never mind.

438 LionOfDixon  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:41:25am

This headline from Drudge tells you all you need to know about Chairman Obamao’s administration: “Paper: Obama’s Head of Econ Council Falls Asleep at Summit”

“…..Lawrence Summers, head of the National Economic Council, fell asleep on the podium.”

ft.com

But they want to run health care.

439 ConservativeAtheist  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:41:39am

re: #59 martinsmithy

But there are significant health care issues in this nation of ours - because our current system is malfunctioning. In every study I’ve heard about, every other developed nation in the world has a health care system that beats ours in accessibility, cost, and quality for all areas of medicine with the notable exception of unusual or cutting-edge medical treatments.

Links to studies please? I have to disagree with this entirely. In countries with socialized medicine, everyone has the same access to non-responsive, government rationed health care. I tore up my knee a few years ago, and three weeks later I was having surgery. My colleagues in Canada would wait a year. Here is a more drastic example. Even if the health care under a socialist system is decent, just the waiting due to the inevitable rationing will lead to a decreased quality of life.

440 subsailor68  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:41:58am

Just for fun, now that we’re looking at “universal” healthcare, I went to the Social Security site to see how the trust fund works. From that site’s FAQ’s:

Trust funds and types of investments
The Old-Age and Survivors Insurance Trust Fund and the Disability Insurance Trust Fund comprise the Social Security trust funds. Both funds are managed by the Department of the Treasury. Since the beginning of the Social Security program, all securities held by the trust funds have been issued by the Federal Government. There are two general types of such securities:

* Special issues—available only to the trust funds
* Public issues—marketable Treasury bonds available to the public.

The trust funds now hold only special issues, but they have held public issues in the past.

To recap: The trust funds are managed by Treasury. The funds are invested in Special Issues - issued by THE TREASURY.

So, Treasury runs the funds, and invests the tax dollars we send in IOU’s put into the fund.

And that’s why it’s broke, and that’s why our debt keeps going up (remember, someone has to “redeem” these government obligations), and that’s why universal healthcare will completely, utterly bankrupt our system.

(Not that it’s not already trashed.)

441 realwest  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:41:58am

re: #405 redstateredneck
Thanks red - I appreciate your comment and the folks who updinged my #274. It means a lot to me.

442 vxbush  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:42:23am

re: #421 transient

re: #206 acwgusa

There is also increasing reliance on physician’s assistants and RNs to do some of what doctors used to do, and on LPNs and technicians to do what RNs used to do, for cost savings. Look for more of that, whatever system we end up with.

If I hear about one more para-professional—someone who has absolutely no degrees in the field but some on-the-job-training—in healthcare, I may have to get angry. You don’t want to see me when I’m angry. I had a few of those look at my son when he was being evaluated for services, and they were fairly clueless.

443 Dustyvet  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:42:25am

re: #432 pre-Boomer Marine brat

I would have appreciated you Holden off on that one.

Love can be a touchy subject.

444 cronus  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:42:45am
“Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness”

/Doesn’t sound the least bit Orwellian to me.

445 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:42:46am

re: #438 LionOfDixon

This headline from Drudge tells you all you need to know about Chairman Obamao’s administration: “Paper: Obama’s Head of Econ Council Falls Asleep at Summit”

“…..Lawrence Summers, head of the National Economic Council, fell asleep on the podium.”

[Link: www.ft.com…]

But they want to run health care.

I’ve met Summers. He’s… a bit odd.

446 Ojoe  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:42:53am

BBL

447 lurking faith  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:42:54am

If government bureaucrats got to control health care decisions, I would probably be a widow.

Also, my mother would have died around ten years ago, instead of living on to delight my father, spoil the grandkids, and pretty much charm everybody who meets her.

The standard course of treatment offered neither of them much chance.

But the left doesn’t care if we are left to die, or suffer unnecessary pain due to improperly treated injuries, as long as we underlings are all treated equally badly.

448 acwgusa  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:43:30am

re: #442 vxbush

If I hear about one more para-professional—someone who has absolutely no degrees in the field but some on-the-job-training—in healthcare, I may have to get angry. You don’t want to see me when I’m angry. I had a few of those look at my son when he was being evaluated for services, and they were fairly clueless.

Ask an RN about an LPN, and get ready to run for it!

449 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:43:46am

re: #408 rawmuse

Love is a Many Splintered Thing.

Reminds me of a song I heard years ago. It was a love song to a mannequin.

It included the lines “If you’re bored than you can lumber around in the yard where the woodpeckers play. They’ll build nests in your head and keep termites away”
And of course,
“Our love is not holey, wooden you say.”

450 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:44:23am

re: #444 cronus

/Doesn’t sound the least bit Orwellian to me.

Minihealth.

451 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:44:24am

re: #403 buzzsawmonkey

Barack Obama had a plan
E-i-e-i-o!
To institute it, he chose czars
E-i-e-i-o!
With a czar czar here
And a czar czar there
Here a czar
There a czar
You hardly can tell where you are
Barack Obama had a plan
E-i-e-i-o!

And we are all S-C-R-E-W-E-D ouch ouch ouch ouch ouch

452 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:44:40am

re: #420 Occasional Reader

Yep, that’s the one.

I see I’m not the only lizard who tortures myself with NPR “news”.

It’s tough work to ‘know they enemy’ but someone has to do it, so …uh… glad you are doing it so we don’t have to. Good on ya!

453 JacksonTn  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:45:08am

re: #441 realwest

Thanks red - I appreciate your comment and the folks who updinged my #274. It means a lot to me.

Realwest …I know that it WILL affect treatment …when I was getting chemo …one of the rounds I was getting was a very expensive form of chemo …I had private insurance so I was able to receive it …the woman next to me in the chemo room had medicare …it was not on the approved list …she was not able to receive the same treatment …it is not fair …they WILL pick and choose who gets treatments and who does not …too old and they think your chances of survival are not good …YOU ARE OUT …I HATE THEM …

454 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:45:09am

re: #260 transient

I’m not sure where you are, but many doctors I know schedule patients at 15 minute intervals so they can pay for the overhead. There is simply little/no time scheduled for emergencies. (I considered myself quite lucky when I had an urgent problem last year that my doctor was able to deal with that day in the office.) Oftentimes you will be told if you have an emergency to go to the emergency room. This is a very expensive alternative.

Another problem in my region is that many doctors are going “concierge,” so that they don’t have to schedule patients at 15 minute intervals and can actually take the time to interact with their patients on a personal level, conduct complete histories and physicals, and maybe even have time to think about a difficult case. “Concierge” service comes at a significant premium and is not affordable—or necessary—for everyone.

I think these urgent care centers are a fantastic alternative and can take care of many of the day to day “emergencies” that frankly do not rate an ER visit.

My doctor’s practice - each doctor takes one day of the week and reserves part of the day for last-minute call-ins. So you might not get to see your regular doctor, but you can see somebody at the practice.

455 vxbush  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:45:21am

re: #448 acwgusa

Ask an RN about an LPN, and get ready to run for it!

I have some friends who teach at a nursing college, and I’ve heard it from them. They are seriously upset by what’s coming down the road.

456 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:45:31am

re: #430 Dustyvet

I agree…:***(

On the same theme, have you watched The Sandpebbles? The book’s ending was to HATE (like LIAMST’s), and I haven’t rented the movie because of that. Did Hollywood put in a happy ending, or did they gleefully kill off the hero?

457 smokefire  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:45:32am

re: #422 notutopia

OT This is Awesome News!

Cancer Treatment Developments From Tel Aviv

The new drug delivery technology, developed at Tel Aviv University, enables drugs to specifically target cancer cells, leaving surrounding healthy cells intact and reducing the unpleasant side effects of chemotherapy

[Link: thentherewaslight.com…]

News Flash, from Al Jazeerea

Warmongering Israelis perfect new weapon to target peace loving Palestinians with cancer weapon.

THATS RIGHT SARCASM

458 so.cal.swede  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:45:37am

1. reform tort law
2. free up the insurance market, but keep it in check. When the customer (patient) does not care how much treatement costs (since they only pay insurance premiums), the expenses skyrocket.


If there were no insurance for medical, only very few, very rich people could afford health care becasue of the vastly inflated medical costs.

459 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:45:45am

re: #445 Occasional Reader

Is it possible that the previous night might have been a little stressful for him…or for his liver, I should say?

460 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:46:13am

re: #453 JacksonTn

Realwest …I know that it WILL affect treatment …when I was getting chemo …one of the rounds I was getting was a very expensive form of chemo …I had private insurance so I was able to receive it …the woman next to me in the chemo room had medicare …it was not on the approved list …she was not able to receive the same treatment …it is not fair …they WILL pick and choose who gets treatments and who does not …too old and they think your chances of survival are not good …YOU ARE OUT …I HATE THEM …

There is nothing sacred. Government falls on the side of ‘death’ lately, when it should fall on the side of ‘life’.

461 subsailor68  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:46:14am

re: #456 pre-Boomer Marine brat

On the same theme, have you watched The Sandpebbles? The book’s ending was to HATE (like LIAMST’s), and I haven’t rented the movie because of that. Did Hollywood put in a happy ending, or did they gleefully kill off the hero?

If you’ve read the book, you’ve seen the movie.

;-)

462 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:46:17am

re: #448 acwgusa

Ask an RN about an LPN, and get ready to run for it!

Or LVNs. My sister’s an RN, and she used to call them “El Centro nurses”, after the community college in downtown Dallas where some were trained.

463 Afrocity  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:46:18am

re: #397 redstateredneck

And that’s when the fight would have started if I were the mom. Bless her heart; she was probably taught to be respectful of the doctors…what a load of crap.

Heck, my first job out of college was with the Fed. Gov. I was 21. I remember the forms for health insurance and I needed a benefits counselor to explain to me what co-payments were and Family practitioner. I was amazed that I could go to the dentist when I wanted to and not just once a year. That I could have the eyeglasses I wanted.

In welfare medicine you never got the same doctor twice.

464 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:46:34am
465 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:46:39am

re: #423 Nevergiveup

18:56 State Department: $900 million in Palestinian aid won`t be going through Hamas (Haaretz)

How stupid does the State Department think we all are? Or are they that stupid? Or am I just wasting my time? Pass the Scotch please.

You have to understand the nuance. The aid won’t go through Hamas. It will be given to others. Hamas will take the aid and use it themselves. Thus, it goes to Hamas, indirectly, but not through Hamas.
The only thing we should send them is [deleted]

466 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:46:48am

re: #456 pre-Boomer Marine brat

On the same theme, have you watched The Sandpebbles? The book’s ending was to HATE (like LIAMST’s), and I haven’t rented the movie because of that. Did Hollywood put in a happy ending, or did they gleefully kill off the hero?

I wouldn’t say “gleefully”, but… well, it’s not a happy ending.

However, the good ol’ BAR acquits itself well.

467 smokefire  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:46:59am

re: #461 subsailor68

LOOOOOOONNNNNNNG Movie.

468 reine.de.tout  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:47:12am

re: #274 realwest

Right now I live with my 84 year old mother who has type II diabetes. I’m going to be 64 in a couple of months and suffer from a form of cancer that may
be treated with known, albeit expensive, technology - but I AM going to be 64 and my “usefulness” to society, not to mention my Mom’s usefulness to society is probably, by some bureaucratic standard, minimal.
But to us, our rights to proper and timely health care have been duly earned over our respective lifetimes and is not minimal at all; in fact, quite the contrary.
I can’t really comment on this thread, but I do tend to get, violent aggressive when me or mine are threatened.
I really can’t say anything further out of respect for Charles and this blog.

Hiya realwest.
You put that very well.
I suspect there’s more than one of us here in the same or similar boat (moi, for instance).

469 transient  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:47:47am

re: #448 acwgusa

Ask an RN about an LPN, and get ready to run for it!


At this point, I’m almost satisfied if they speak/understand fluent English.

470 subsailor68  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:47:50am

re: #467 smokefire

LOOOOOOONNNNNNNG Movie.

LOL! Yeah, but what’s not to like with Candice Bergen on screen?

Hell, or Steve McQueen for that matter.

:-)

471 Dustyvet  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:48:26am

re: #456 pre-Boomer Marine brat

On the same theme, have you watched The Sandpebbles? The book’s ending was to HATE (like LIAMST’s), and I haven’t rented the movie because of that. Did Hollywood put in a happy ending, or did they gleefully kill off the hero?

I have the DVD of that movie, and I ball like a kid at the ending. I’d like to read the book, but I think it’s long out of print.

472 lurking faith  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:48:28am

re: #195 dhg4

We already pay mileage taxes (both federal and state), when we buy fuel for our cars.

How much we pay per mile varies by how good or bad the vehicle’s mpg is.

Now they want to tax our mileage twice? I think the urban elitists are going to be just as shocked by the response to this as they were to the response to the stupid 55 mph national speed limit.

473 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:48:29am
474 smokefire  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:48:39am

re: #469 transient

At this point, I’m almost satisfied if they speak/understand fluent English.

Ask an LPN about an RN, and then start running

475 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:48:44am

re: #431 Nevergiveup

And what are they working on at Gaza U?

Here:

Joo Treatment Developments From Gaza City

The new drug delivery technology, developed at Gaza University, enables drugs to specifically target the cancer of Jooos in the world, leaving surrounding healthy Muslims intact or sent to paradise.

476 cronus  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:49:01am

re: #450 Ward Cleaver

Minihealth.

I’m preparing myself for a full on reintroduction of Newspeak tonight.

477 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:49:21am

re: #461 subsailor68

If you’ve read the book, you’ve seen the movie.

;-)

Rats. Thanks.

478 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:50:47am

re: #466 Occasional Reader

I wouldn’t say “gleefully”, but… well, it’s not a happy ending.

However, the good ol’ BAR acquits itself well.

How long did you have to rifle through the closing scene to come up with that?

479 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:51:27am
480 realwest  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:51:37am

re: #422 notutopia
Regrettably, under the new National Health Care planned by Obama, that treatment would not be available to me as it is a) probably very expensive
b)experiemtnal and c) I am “disposable” to society (see my #274 above)

481 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:51:49am

re: #472 lurking faith

We already pay mileage taxes (both federal and state), when we buy fuel for our cars.

How much we pay per mile varies by how good or bad the vehicle’s mpg is.

Now they want to tax our mileage twice? I think the urban elitists are going to be just as shocked by the response to this as they were to the response to the stupid 55 mph national speed limit.

This aspect was pointed out upthread:

Fuel efficient cars use less gas. Less gas = less taxes. Now let’s find a way to SCREW everyone regardless of ‘environmentally sound’ choice. Government is a bunch of nefarious bastards.

482 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:52:27am

re: #471 Dustyvet

I have the DVD of that movie, and I ball like a kid at the ending. I’d like to read the book, but I think it’s long out of print.

The book was good.
You might be able to find it in a public library.

483 subsailor68  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:52:49am

re: #477 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Rats. Thanks.

But don’t let that stop ya! The movie is terrific - although like smokefire says, it’s looonngg. The scenery is amazing, the story does move along, and the performances are great.

I bought a DVD upconverter and a copy of the movie. When it looks almost like HD, you can’t believe how beautiful it is.

484 redstateredneck  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:54:29am

re: #463 Afrocity

Heck, my first job out of college was with the Fed. Gov. I was 21. I remember the forms for health insurance and I needed a benefits counselor to explain to me what co-payments were and Family practitioner. I was amazed that I could go to the dentist when I wanted to and not just once a year. That I could have the eyeglasses I wanted.

In welfare medicine you never got the same doctor twice.


I have witnessed rudeness to welfare patients by the receptionists at doctor’s offices before. Way out of line.

485 debutaunt  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:54:50am

re: #364 Afrocity

Besides they wasted tax payer money on the pregnancy test they gave me—a eleven year old. I didn’t even have a monthly friend yet. I remember them three males doctors, sent my mom out of the room, because of course I was keep some dark secret from her…Their theory was I had sex, got pregnant before my monthly started and so I did not know. At one point I started laughing at them and asked if I had appendicitis. Little ol me read the World Book Encyclopedia and came up with better explanations than they did.

I loved to read the World Book - the human’s organs gave you a better clue than the doctor who was last in his class!

486 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:55:07am

re: #479 buzzsawmonkey

Homan dies at the end of the film “The Sand Pebbles.” He was considering deserting—or mustering out—to work with the mission. When the country erupts, the Captain decides to go upriver and evacuate the missionaries; they fight their way through a boom across the river, and in the skirmish the young Nationalist who is acting as the “protector” of the missionaries is killed.

When the San Pablo arrives at the mission, the head missionary tells the Captain that he did not want their protection; he and the others had renounced their citizenship. The Captain tells him he is being a fool, and that he is putting the lives of the missionaries in jeopardy. As they are talking, the Nationalists attack; the head missionary is shot and, dying, says to the Captain, “Damn your flag; damn all flags,” which elicited cheers of approval in audiences when the film came out during the Vietnam era.

Homan ends up acting as rearguard to protect the San Pablo party and the remaining missionaries who are being evacuated, and is killed in the process. His last words are something along the lines of “It was gonna be different; what the hell happened?”

Thanks. That’s another reason I never watched the movie — the era during which it was made.

/go figure … I did

487 subsailor68  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:55:14am

re: #479 buzzsawmonkey

Spoilsport!

;-)

(Reminds me of the old joke about how to spoil “Crime and Punishment”:

“Raskolnikov did it!”)

488 notutopia  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:55:15am

re: #457 smokefire

News Flash, from Al Jazeerea

Warmongering Israelis perfect new weapon to target peace loving Palestinians with cancer weapon.

THATS RIGHT SARCASM

Here’s a similar one…
“Jews Infect Food with Cancer and Ship it to Muslim Countries”
viciousbabushka.com

489 joncelli  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:55:19am

re: #476 cronus

Double-plus ungood, that.

490 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:59:13am
491 notutopia  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:59:15am

re: #480 realwest

Regrettably, under the new National Health Care planned by Obama, that treatment would not be available to me as it is a) probably very expensive
b)experiemtnal and c) I am “disposable” to society (see my #274 above)

Realwest, I am in the same treatment classification as you by Military healthcare facilities. If I want better quality by an independent at MD Anderson, I have to pay for it out of my own pocket.
BTW, I am a cancer survivor. Ovarian,Uterine, at the tender age of 38.
My heart goes out to you.

492 Dustyvet  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:02:47am

re: #488 notutopia

Here’s a similar one…
“Jews Infect Food with Cancer and Ship it to Muslim Countries”
[Link: www.viciousbabushka.com…]


Eat this Al-Jazeera…


Youtube Video

493 subsailor68  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:03:07am

re: #490 buzzsawmonkey

The interesting thing is that while the film tries to make arrogant, know-nothing prigs out of the Captain and his first officer, it doesn’t quite manage to—just as “Dr. Strangelove” doesn’t quite manage to completely make idiots out of Major Kong and General Buck Turgidson.

In both films, you’re supposed to reflexively hate the Standard Military Guys. But somehow, no matter how caked they are with the mockery flung at them by the screenwriters, they manage to stand tall through it.

You have a point. But, watching Richard Crenna break down - almost as a metaphor for what was happening to the ship after the coolies were gone - just about broke my heart.

494 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:03:50am

re: #479 buzzsawmonkey

Homan ends up acting as rearguard to protect the San Pablo party and the remaining missionaries who are being evacuated,

Your movie synopsis is good, but suffers from lack of mention of the BAR’s coolitivity.

495 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:05:05am
496 debutaunt  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:05:44am

re: #411 buzzsawmonkey

I’m sorry, but under the National Health Plan we can’t treat Logan’s runs. He does not qualify for the Intestinal Program.

Get in line over there with the pre-dead people.

497 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:12:23am

re: #490 buzzsawmonkey

The interesting thing is that while the film tries to make arrogant, know-nothing prigs out of the Captain and his first officer, it doesn’t quite manage to—just as “Dr. Strangelove” doesn’t quite manage to completely make idiots out of Major Kong and General Buck Turgidson.

In both films, you’re supposed to reflexively hate the Standard Military Guys. But somehow, no matter how caked they are with the mockery flung at them by the screenwriters, they manage to stand tall through it.

I read it soon after it came out, and with the mindset of the son of an Old Corps Marine. I wasn’t about to risk what “The Sixties” might have done with the movie. Sounds like my hunch was right. Thanks for the evaluation.

498 teleskiguy  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:14:43am

Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative Effectiveness Research

That is a nightmare bureaucratic name if I’ve ever heard one!

499 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:15:56am
500 bulwrk  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:16:41am

re: #498 teleskiguy

Odds are it will be neither coordinated or effective.

501 realwest  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:17:59am

re: #495 Iron Fist
“Any way you cut it, my livelyhood ability to stay alive may be directly impacted by this. I’m more than a little concerned, but there is only a limited number of things I can do.
There, fixed that for you my friend.
And thank you for the upding on my #274. This situation is not a fucking joke.

502 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:24:00am

re: #499 buzzsawmonkey

Frankly I wish you’d see it, and report back. I’d be curious to know the opinion of someone who has a closer relationship with the armed forces than I ever had.

*shiver* euuuwwwwww!
For you, buzz, I will consider it.
Don’t hold your breath, though. Things are busy here, and I think my Blockbuster membership expired about a decade ago.

503 lurking faith  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:26:00am

re: #59 martinsmithy

But there are significant health care issues in this nation of ours - because our current system is malfunctioning. In every study I’ve heard about, every other developed nation in the world has a health care system that beats ours in accessibility, cost, and quality for all areas of medicine with the notable exception of unusual or cutting-edge medical treatments.

Please. Of the people I know who were injured while living in Europe and depending on local health care, none of them obtained complete and appropriate care until they returned to the US. One of them was injured very badly, and because she did not get the proper surgeries until weeks or months later than she should have, she will never, ever sit straight or walk without pain again.

As for me, I was lucky: I merely wrenched a knee. The doctor tried one thing which failed and then gave up except to have me come in and answer questions every two weeks for a while. Two years after I came back to the US, I went to the doctor for back pain, caused by my limping for the last couple of years. The doctor (horrified) said I should have had physical therapy for my knee right after the injury, directed me to therapy and a beginner’s yoga class, and within two months my leg and back were fine. As long as I keep up the balance exercises, my leg doesn’t ache. But I had more than two years of totally unnecessary pain. And I might have had a full recovery instead of one that can only be maintained by life-long attention.

I know this is anecdotal evidence, but my friends and I lived them. So you can quote all the studies you want - and I’d like to see to see the actual studies named, by the way; nameless studies can be imaginary - but statistics can’t disprove what I know about how the system actually worked in practice, on real people.

The government’s idea of a good result is not the same as the patient’s idea of a good result.

And yes, I know all about people who don’t go to the doctor because they can’t afford it. But when the system is turned into something that routinely fails people when they go to the doctor - failing even for things that aren’t all that difficult, like my knee injury - then we’re ALL screwed.

504 Chicago Blonde  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:26:44am

re: #274 realwest
re: #289 Afrocity

I’m sorry this is a hit & run type of post. I just snuck in on my lunch break and my blood started to boil over. It’s either post or start whapping my head on the desk.

I’m still learning who everyone is, but (((Realwest)))…and Afrocity, thank G-d you’re here despite sub-par doctors. You had intestinal blockage and the idiot thought you were PREGNANT? (This hits a nerve with me but now isn’t the time.)

I get enraged when goons like Michael Moore rave about socialized medicine. Yeah, like he’d get into steerage with the rest of us peons? This whole thing scares the crap out of me.

OK, now I’ve calmed down a bit. I can try to get back to work. And happy birthday, Reine!

505 Dustyvet  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:27:56am

re: #502 pre-Boomer Marine brat

*shiver* euuuwwwwww!
For you, buzz, I will consider it.
Don’t hold your breath, though. Things are busy here, and I think my Blockbuster membership expired about a decade ago.

[Jake Holman (Machinist Mate 1st Class ) teaching Po-han (Engine Room coolie) the engine room]
Jake Holman: Valve.
Po-han: Wow.
Jake Holman: Valve.
Po-han: Wow.
[points to valve, more emphatically]
Po-han: Wow.
Jake Holman: Yeah, okay… wow.
[pointing to another valve]
Jake Holman: Main steam stop valve.
Po-han: Main steam stop wow.

506 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:38:12am

re: #505 Dustyvet

[Jake Holman (Machinist Mate 1st Class ) teaching Po-han (Engine Room coolie) the engine room]
Jake Holman: Valve.
Po-han: Wow.
Jake Holman: Valve.
Po-han: Wow.
[points to valve, more emphatically]
Po-han: Wow.
Jake Holman: Yeah, okay… wow.
[pointing to another valve]
Jake Holman: Main steam stop valve.
Po-han: Main steam stop wow.

(*grin*)
wow!

507 Killer Tomato  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:46:08am

re: #274 realwest

rw -
Had the paperpushers been in charge, my Dad would’ve died at least a year earlier and I would’ve missed so many of the stories of his life that he shared - and all the times I got to hear “I love you, hon”… I would’ve missed those too..
sorry gotta go - crying at desk not a good idea

508 lurking faith  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:02:44am

re: #481 Oh no…Sand People!

I eventually saw that. Somehow I never can keep up…

509 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:03:39am

Here’s the triple whammy:

1. Lose your job between age 48-65
2. Keep supporting a family and cover them with good health insurance
3. Try to get a quality job with good health benefits even though you’re now “too old” and “overqualified” when looking for work that offers a good health plan.

4. Bonus: A family member gets very ill or needs chronic meds and then you get to waste your savings. What a surprise - this tends to happen in the 48-65 age bracket!

510 mardukhai  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:28:48am

re: #509 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey

re. the “Triple Whammy” —

You’re absolutely right. The current system is broken. Pure and simple. It costs more, and delivers less, than any other medical system in the developed world.

Let’s stop trying to be “patriotic” about a system that we can no longer afford and mainly serves the lobbyist industry. Let’s try something that works.

Okay, so the Canadian system is state controlled and too rigid. So use the Australian system. Or the Swiss system.

Anything that actually works.

511 Mr Spiffy  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:31:05am

re: #110 Thanos

*raises hand for Minister of Snacks*

I offer my service as Under-Secretary of Macaroni & Cheese

512 Mr Spiffy  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:53:22am

re: #208 Nevergiveup

You also should know that all studies show there is an inverse relationship between where you graduate and how much you make. It seems the bottom of the class makes more than the top.

That’s why Kramer wanted his “ASSMAN” license plate ?

513 Suzette  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 1:12:15pm

re: #115 jcm

Brave New World indeed.

Good heavens! This is horrifying!
/With this new czar suicide will be better than treatment?

514 FrogMarch  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 1:48:31pm

the takers are demanding a free trip to the doc anytime they want?

515 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 1:51:37pm
516 Seerak  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 5:10:20pm

this issue is a collision between two diamatrically opposed forces: the compassion of all good people toward those who are ill, and the plain realities of free market economics.

There is no answer that will please (or heal) everyone.

Yes there is. It’s called “checking your premises”.

In this case, the premise to check is that “compassion” is incompatible with freedom (i.e. the “plain reality” of free markets). If you are not able to imagine compassion without compulsion, all that means is that you are unable to imagine compassion without compulsion. I offer as evidence the statistics of voluntary (non-government) charitable contributions from American individuals in the aftermath of the 2004 tsunami (#1 in the world, IIRC). Please consider reading up on how things were done in the charity business before the government nationalized it at the behest of the early American Left; you’d be amazed at the things people took it upon themselves to organize and do before the idea of letting the government do it for them, took root.

Now altruism on the other hand, which is not benevolence or compassion so much as the alleged duty to engage in such, IS incompatible with freedom; there is no answer to that contradiction that can “please (or heal) everyone”.

The man who coined the term “altruism” understood this fact, as he says here:

“[The] social point of view cannot tolerate the notion of rights, for such notion rests on individualism. We are born under a load of obligations of every kind, to our predecessors, to our successors, to our contemporaries.”

—Auguste Comte, from his Catechisme Positiviste.

517 Pupdawg  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 12:17:05pm

re: #145 Ben Hur

Baczar!

BczarObamalamadingdong

or plain old BczarO


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