Scientologists: Psychiatry Caused 9/11 and the Holocaust

Weird • Views: 4,294

The latest weird science promoted by Scientology in their crusade against psychiatry: Psychiatry causes terrorism.

On Two scientology chat shows prominent members of the Citizens Commission on Human Rights (a Scientology front group whose overwrought website dedicated to exposing psychiatry as an “Industry of Death” can be seen here) calmly explain that bin Laden was brainwashed into committing acts of terrorism by his “psychiatrist”, Al-Qaeda deputy leader Ayman al-Zawahiri.

Chairman of CCHR Florida Dave Figueroa claims that terrorism is inextricably linked to psychiatry. As he puts it: “behind those individual acts of mayhem you find psychiatrists, you find psychologists and their drugs”. In bin Laden’s case it was Zawahiri: “that ideology of terror was coming from bin Laden who was influenced by a psychiatrist and that really is the bottom line.”

Listening to Figueroa you would think that bin Laden had been working for the Salvation Army until he was corrupted by Zawahiri in 1988. Shaking his head at the memory of the sweet Osama we used to know, he laments:

“His whole thought patterns [sic] and his entire viewpoint were changed by Zawahiri and whatever types of drugs that Zawahiri used to make that change in bin Laden we don’t know. But we do know that there was a real change in this guy’s attitude and in his willingness to wreak havoc.”
Apparently this “willingness to wreak havoc” was not suitably demonstrated by bin Laden’s involvement in brutal jihad against the Red Army in Afghanistan throughout the 1980s.

In the second clip President of CCHR International (and surely a star in some sort of Scientology panto, ‘The Psychiatrist Terrorist: He’s Behind You’?) Dennis Clarke confidently describes Zawahiri as “[bin Laden’s] psychiatrist, that’s his doctor, that’s his therapist, that’s … [dramatic pause] the guy who runs him.”

Neither Figueroa nor Clarke seems overly worried about the fact that Zawahiri is in fact an eye-surgeon and not a psychiatrist, that there is absolutely no evidence for what they’re saying, nor that religious violence predates psychiatry by, oh, several thousand years.

vimeo.com

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368 comments
1 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:46:59am

Oh Tom Paging Tom!

2 JammieWearingFool  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:46:59am

I’d say psychiatric issues definitely have something to do with Trooferism.

3 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:47:02am

So, Tom Cruise for Terror Czar?

4 acwgusa  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:47:15am

The Religion of Tom Cruise.

5 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:47:48am

Didn’t psychiatrists cause the Black Plague?

/

6 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:47:59am

chronic narcissism causes Scientology…is there a pill for that?

7 acwgusa  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:48:01am

I know, I know! Let’s put these guys and the Troofers in cage, and let them take care of each other!

8 PerfectSense  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:48:11am

Beyond loony. Well beyond.

9 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:48:16am

It is a religion created by a science fiction writer! Idiots!

*shakes head in disgust.

10 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:48:17am

Crazy Ole’ Tom Cruise on the Today Show

11 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:48:20am
“His whole thought patterns [sic] and his entire viewpoint were changed by Zawahiri and whatever types of drugs that Zawahiri used to make that change in bin Laden we don’t know. But we do know that there was a real change in this guy’s attitude and in his willingness to wreak havoc.”

The Koran does have that effect on people… uh, what? Psychiatry!?
/

12 calcajun  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:48:24am

And we thought the radical young-earth Creationists were loopy.

These people are fighting a battle against an implacable enemy. Its name… Reality.

13 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:48:50am

re: #6 Desert Dog

chronic narcissism causes Scientology…is there a pill for that?

Sorry, no cure for that. Except maybe deprogramming.

14 Occasional Reader  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:49:07am
Psychiatry Caused 9/11 and the Holocaust

That’s ridiculous. Everyone knows that Darwinism caused the Holocaust.

/need I?

15 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:49:22am

re: #7 acwgusa

I know, I know! Let’s put these guys and the Troofers in cage, and let them take care of each other!

A rabbit cage?

16 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:49:43am

Why we bother with a profession called “comedian”? This is so ridiculous and silly that it’s funnier than any routine I’ve heard in ages!

17 calcajun  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:49:46am

You do realize that the evil Scientology gnomes will come and down-ding all of us now.

18 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:50:52am

re: #9 Ford_Prefect

It is a religion created by a science fiction writer! Idiots!

*shakes head in disgust.

Oh, L. Ron was more than that!

19 Killer Tomato  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:50:56am

So what are we worried about?
Under government rationed health care, none of us will get to see psychiatrists anyway.
/

20 Kenneth  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:51:05am

“the fact that Zawahiri is in fact an eye-surgeon”

Ah, but I bet Zawahiri can hold forth on the irreducible complexity of the human eye!

21 transient  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:52:39am

re: #17 calcajun

You do realize that the evil Scientology gnomes will come and down-ding all of us now.

I have Prozac cookies for them when they come.

22 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:52:49am
23 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:52:51am

I liked the way the movie Bowfinger spoofed Scientology, with a church called “Mindhead”.

24 Gella  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:52:52am

why would anybody in their sane mind believe in writings of a scifi writer done on a bet, they are insane

25 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:52:53am

re: #19 Killer Tomato

So what are we worried about?
Under government rationed health care, none of us will get to see psychiatrists anyway.
/

Ah, but you are wrong. All of us, by which I mean those that post here, will be required to see a psychiatrist for reprogramming.

26 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:52:54am

re: #17 calcajun

You do realize that the evil Scientology gnomes will come and down-ding all of us now.

Good. I want to know who these people are! I want all the gory details of becoming “clear”, and those scary “thetans”!

27 bellamags  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:53:06am

Its not mind control (or psychiatry) that’s the problem - its the evil people behind it.

This is the same backwards logic gun control advocates use. The GUNS are bad, not the PEOPLE who misuse them.

28 calcajun  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:53:17am

Sure. I’m going to take advice from people who believe long-dead space aliens are responsible for my soul and what goes on in the world. Great, the theology of the “Men in Black”. Again, the tenants of Scientology makes the Creationists sound like Stephen Hawking— well not sound like really sound like, but….aw hell you know what I mean

29 Gella  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:53:43am

re: #21 transient

I have Prozac cookies for them when they come.

they need something stronger then Prozac, i say they need electro shock therapy for starters

30 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:54:07am

re: #18 Dianna

Oh, L. Ron was more than that!

He wore a cool captain’s hat, like on Gilligan’s Isle!

31 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:54:10am

re: #24 Gella

why would anybody in their sane mind believe in writings of a scifi writer done on a bet, they are insane

If it’s any comfort, Alestair Crowley called L. Ron an idiot.

32 dhg4  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:54:17am

re: #3 Ward Cleaver

So, Tom Cruise for Terror Czar?

Currently the Obama administration plans to appoint someone who blames Israel for 9/11 to an important intelligence post. To me blaming psychiatry is an improvement.

:-)

33 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:54:21am

re: #14 Occasional Reader

That’s ridiculous. Everyone knows that Darwinism caused the Holocaust.

/need I?

Lately? Yes.

34 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:54:39am

re: #29 Gella

they need something stronger then Prozac, i say they need electro shock therapy for starters

220 volts at 30 amps would do the trick.

35 rawmuse  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:54:52am

Ah, Charles now you’ve truly done it! You think the Creationists are vitriolic? Hold on to your desk. The Scientology crowd goes after its critics. I have more than one Hollyweird story regarding Scientologists as well. They frankly repulse me.

36 onslow  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:54:57am
37 Gella  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:55:08am

re: #34 Ward Cleaver

220 volts at 30 amps would do the trick.

hooray to that :)

38 Leonidas Hoplite  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:55:22am

re: #25 Ford_Prefect

Ah, but you are wrong. All of us, by which I mean those that post here, will be required to see a psychiatrist for reprogramming.

That would be inefficient. That’s while the Health Czar will open re-education camps for us.

39 calcajun  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:55:24am

re: #29 Gella

they need something stronger then Prozac, i say they need electro shock therapy for starters

I say we start it somewhere other than their temples—maybe a little lower.

40 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:55:31am

re: #29 Gella

they need something stronger then Prozac, i say they need electromechanical shock therapy for starters

500lb. dosage, increase to 2,000lb. if needed. If symptoms persist, see the USAF for a Daisycutter.

/

41 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:55:45am

re: #30 Ward Cleaver

*Snicker*

42 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:55:50am

re: #9 Ford_Prefect

It is a religion created by a science fiction writer! Idiots!

*shakes head in disgust.

Not a very good SF writer, though.
I’ve written science fiction (still trying to get something published, though), and I can come up with a better religion than Scientology.

43 bellamags  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:56:05am

re: #35 rawmuse

Ah, Charles now you’ve truly done it! You think the Creationists are vitriolic? Hold on to your desk. The Scientology crowd goes after its critics. I have more than one Hollyweird story regarding Scientologists as well. They frankly repulse me.

I want to see that. Come on you freaks.

44 Jimmah  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:56:07am

re: #12 calcajun

And we thought the radical young-earth Creationists were loopy.

These people are fighting a battle against an implacable enemy. Its name… Reality.

The scientologists and creationists are fighting on the same side in that battle. Reality is their common enemy.

45 Kenneth  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:56:08am

I had no idea that there are teams of psychiatrists roaming the Hindu Kush with the Taliban, brainwashing them into committing terrorist acts.

46 formercorpsman  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:56:18am

“You don’t know the history of psychiatry. I do.”

47 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:56:19am

Didn’t a spaceship comet pass by Earth a few days ago ?
freaky.

48 Gella  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:56:22am

re: #40 OldLineTexan

500lb. dosage, increase to 2,000lb. if needed. If symptoms persist, see the USAF for a Daisycutter.

/

here goes another Mythbasters episode :)

49 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:56:26am

re: #41 Dianna

*Snicker*

I think that’s the only picture I’ve ever seen of him, wearing that goofy hat.

50 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:56:44am

Though I disagree with scientology I will always thank Tom Cruise for this:

/

51 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:56:47am

BTW: There are similar views to this from the DI circle too. I’ve stumbled across a couple of affiliated sites touting same views in my research on them.

52 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:56:48am

re: #23 Ward Cleaver

I liked the way the movie Bowfinger spoofed Scientology, with a church called “Mindhead”.

Or Repo Man, with its book Dioretix, the Science of Matter over Mind

53 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:57:05am
In Scientology doctrine, Xenu is a galactic ruler who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of people to Earth, stacked them around volcanoes and blew them up with hydrogen bombs. Their souls then clustered together and stuck to the bodies of the living. These events are known as “Incident II” or “The Wall of Fire,” and the traumatic memories associated with them are known as the “R6 implant.” The Xenu story prompted the use of the volcano as a Scientology symbol.

ahhh, ya, I think I will listen to this gentleman when it comes to serious matters…..Did Xenu tell him to say that?

54 calcajun  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:57:07am

re: #31 Dianna

If it’s any comfort, Alestair Crowley called L. Ron an idiot.

I always wondered if Alister Crowley had a devil may care attitude.

(I know—I used this one before—but it was late and on a dying thread. )

55 johnnyreb  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:57:10am

re: #35 rawmuse

Ah, Charles now you’ve truly done it! You think the Creationists are vitriolic? Hold on to your desk. The Scientology crowd goes after its critics. I have more than one Hollyweird story regarding Scientologists as well. They frankly repulse me.

And they go after them big time. We are talking teams of lawyers and the like if they get to the point were they think you are in any way shape or form a threat to them.

56 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:57:16am

re: #47 SasquatchOnSteroids

Didn’t a spaceship comet pass by Earth a few days ago ?
freaky.

And I missed hitching a ride? Damn.

/heaven’s gate

57 Peacekeeper  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:57:21am

BIG THETANS IS RIPPING US OFF!

58 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:57:31am

I’m two minutes in and those guys are nuts. They need some serious medication.

59 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:57:40am

I can’t understand how these people can mortgage their lives by buying this stuff. Even with a Hubbard clause.

60 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:57:48am

Do we ever get Scientoology trolls in here?
Should I hang out awhile?
After all, it IS lunchtime.

61 Lee Coller  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:57:49am

re: #35 rawmuse

Ah, Charles now you’ve truly done it! You think the Creationists are vitriolic? Hold on to your desk. The Scientology crowd goes after its critics. I have more than one Hollyweird story regarding Scientologists as well. They frankly repulse me.

Yes, I was thinking the same thing. There used to be a joke going around that it was legal to criticize anyone on the net except Scientology, they have a history of legally harassing their critics. I wonder how many threats Charles will receive for posting this. Expect to hear from one of their lawyers.

62 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:57:53am

re: #46 formercorpsman

“You don’t know the history of psychiatry. I do.”

I was wondering when that quote was going to pop up..!

thx

63 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:57:55am

re: #34 Ward Cleaver

220 volts at 30 amps would do the trick.

It was toast the patient at that level, no?

64 splat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:57:55am

Well.. L.Ron disliked psychiatric medecine for the simple reason the after about 2 minutes talking to L.Ron any decent one would be writing “this dude is f-kin’ LOONEY” on their notepad in large letters.

Or…. . are we all sure this isn’t part of some plot by Xenu ?

Charles has been accused of a lot of things but has anyone investigated his support for Xenu and the Galactic Confederacy ?

65 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:57:56am

re: #43 bellamags

I want to see that. Come on you freaks.

No, you don’t. They have, famously, harassed people nearly to death.

66 zelnaga  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:58:01am

Scientologists accusing psychiatrists of brainwashing is a bit like the pot calling the kettle black.

67 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:58:18am

re: #52 Kosh’s Shadow

Or Repo Man, with its book Dioretix, the Science of Matter over Mind

In Bowfinger, Steve Martin’s character slips and calls it, “Mindfuck”.

68 Suzette  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:58:29am

re: #18 Dianna

Oh, L. Ron was more than that!

Yes he was….basically a snake-oil salesman.
/now the reason for terrorism is “psychology”….what will they think up next?

69 varmint  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:58:37am

zawahiri was a pediatrician. not a psychiatrist.


i work with scientologists from time to time. they are not at all the basket cases you’d expect. a few are among the more competent people i know. but there is something veeerrrrrrrrry creepy running just below the surface.

70 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:58:42am

re: #63 Desert Dog

It was toast the patient at that level, no?

This calls for a toast!

71 smokefire  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:58:46am

how many Scientologists can dance on the head of a pin?

72 MJ  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:58:47am

The Nazis called Psychiatry the “Jewish Science.”

Seems the German government might be on to something on why they don’t much care for Scientology.

[Link: www.amazon.com…]

73 XMarine  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:58:55am

Is it true that Scientology is the result of a bet between L. Ron Hubbard and Alfred Elton VanVogt?

74 Jimmah  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:59:04am

A scientology meltdown would be something special. Although after the dowsing thread meltdown the other day it wouldn’t be too surprising.

75 Macker  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:59:13am

Dammit…why can’t these guys stick to ranting & raving about dropping H-bombs down the mouths of active volcanoes and wiping out millions of poor souls in the process?
Oh wait, they’ve already done that. My bad.

76 pat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:59:18am

The Muslims go to shrinks? Who knew?
“Ask Your Iman”

77 JacksonTn  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:59:24am

re: #61 Lee Coller

Yes, I was thinking the same thing. There used to be a joke going around that it was legal to criticize anyone on the net except Scientology, they have a history of legally harassing their critics. I wonder how many threats Charles will receive for posting this. Expect to hear from one of their lawyers.

I was surfing on the net one night and ran across youtube videos from a group Anonymous …wow …they have it out for Scientology …don’t know much about the group …

78 Lee Coller  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:59:49am

re: #73 XMarine

Is it true that Scientology is the result of a bet between L. Ron Hubbard and Alfred Elton VanVogt?

I don’t know that, but in the 50’s I believe L Ron Hubbard made the statement that if you ever wanted to make a lot of money, form your own religion. About 10 years later he did just that.

79 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:59:50am

So who and what drugs changed Zawahiri? Inquiring Minds want to know.

80 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:00:08am

re: #49 Ward Cleaver

I think that’s the only picture I’ve ever seen of him, wearing that goofy hat.

He was a thoroughly evil man. I really despise him.

I’ll try to keep this light, but I can’t emphasize enough what a cruel, abusive, manipulative, cynical bastard Hubbard was.

81 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:00:25am

Didn’t Frank Zappa spoof Scientology in “Joe’s Garage”? Something about The Church of Appliantology(?) which worshipped appliances, founded by L. Ron Hoover, IIRC.

82 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:00:27am

re: #68 Suzette

Yes he was….basically a snake-oil salesman.
/now the reason for terrorism is “psychology”….what will they think up next?

No, he was much worse than that.

83 formercorpsman  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:00:33am
84 A.W.  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:00:55am

Well, scientologists are dumb, and its a scam, but ultimately it is harmless, so far. maybe that will change, but right now its hard to get to worked up about them.

of course that doesn’t stop me from messing with them at the mall where they are set up. i walk by, going, “Lord Xemu is coming to get you!” Heh.

But yes, claiming psychiatry caused the holocaust is retarded.

85 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:01:04am

Genghis Khan, pot head.

86 redheadredstate  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:01:09am

Does anyone else see a connection between the fact that many of the Hollywooders are Scientologists and Looney Liberals? From one cult to another seems to me.

87 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:01:11am

I do have to say one thing for the Scientologists. They haven’t been blowing up people and buildings.
Maybe they just spent all their money on e-meters and becoming clear, and don’t have any money left for bombs.

88 subsailor68  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:01:13am

Wanna know about Scientology? Check out some of the videos on youTube:

YouTube on Scientology

89 calcajun  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:01:16am

Please, keep in mind that ol’ L. Ron started this nonsense as part of a bet/joke that he could start a religion. Keeping in mind what I said about human nature yesterday— we should not be surprised that Scientology has gone as far as it.

90 zelnaga  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:01:33am

re: #68 Suzette

/now the reason for terrorism is “psychology”….what will they think up next?


I think it is. It’s either nature (biology) or nurture (psychology) and I don’t think people are hard-wired to be terrorists. I think their society sorta brainwashes them. I guess that’s sorta sociology, too, but sociology / psychology seem to be just two sides of the same coin.

91 Lee Coller  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:01:55am

re: #84 A.W.

Well, scientologists are dumb, and its a scam, but ultimately it is harmless, so far. maybe that will change, but right now its hard to get to worked up about them.

of course that doesn’t stop me from messing with them at the mall where they are set up. i walk by, going, “Lord Xemu is coming to get you!” Heh.

But yes, claiming psychiatry caused the holocaust is retarded.

I don’t agree, Scientology can be extremely harmful, especially to those with psychiatric problems.

92 SlartyBartfast  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:02:05am

re: #72 MJ

The Nazis called Psychiatry the “Jewish Science.”

Seems the German government might be on to something on why they don’t much care for Scientology.

[Link: www.amazon.com…]

Hitler took a dim view of Nuclear Physics for the same reason: Jewish Science. You see where that got them…

93 bellamags  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:02:08am

re: #86 redheadredstate

Does anyone else see a connection between the fact that many of the Hollywooders are Scientologists and Looney Liberals? From one cult to another seems to me.

Its about money and power and thinking they know better than the rest of us “Idiots”. BTW - love your new avatar

94 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:02:14am

bin Laden: Durka durka durka infidel durka Holy Land durka Jews …
Zawahiri: Hmmm. Go on.
bin Laden: Mullah mullah durka durka Bush mullah Jews …
Zawahiri: And how did this make you feel?
bin Laden: Jihad mullah kufr mullah jihad durka-durk!
Zawahiri: Looks like our hour is up. Please see the receptionist for an appointment next week. Looks like we have a lot of work ahead, Osama.

/

I could see how it happened …

//////

95 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:02:17am

re: #78 Lee Coller

I don’t know that, but in the 50’s I believe L Ron Hubbard made the statement that if you ever wanted to make a lot of money, form your own religion. About 10 years later he did just that.

The 50s was the heyday of the California cults. I’ve read that one could buy a pre-packaged clut-formation kit, complete with “theology”.

96 Suzette  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:02:24am

re: #82 Dianna

I agree Dianna…he was worse than that.
/I was being a tad mild.

97 ErnieG  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:02:24am

re: #76 pat

The Muslims go to shrinks? Who knew?
“Ask Your Iman”

Standup Guy: Then there was this terrorist who was sooo crazy…

Audience: How crazy was he?

SG: The others noticed.

98 calcajun  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:02:36am

re: #76 pat

The Muslims go to shrinks? Who knew?
“Ask Your Iman”

Of course. Muslims would throng to Freud—after all they get to blame a woman (mommy) for everything.

99 teleskiguy  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:02:50am

Neither Figueroa nor Clarke seems overly worried about the fact that Zawahiri is in fact an eye-surgeon and not a psychiatrist, that there is absolutely no evidence for what they’re saying, nor that religious violence predates psychiatry by, oh, several thousand years.

That’s grand! I guess my mother and I are going to blow up buildings and start terror training camps because we are taking anti-depressants. I highly recommend the South Park episode “Coming Out Of The Closet” which fully explains Scientology to the lay-person succinctly and accurately.

100 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:02:55am

And these two guys believe in Exnu.

101 Gella  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:03:06am

re: #86 redheadredstate

Does anyone else see a connection between the fact that many of the Hollywooders are Scientologists and Looney Liberals? From one cult to another seems to me.

they are loony, they pretty much belive in Santa Clause, see resemblance with current POTUS? ok didnt want to become political here

102 realwest  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:03:31am

re: #19 Killer Tomato
Don’t know why you used that sarc tag, KT.

103 oh_dude  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:03:36am

Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.

104 calcajun  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:03:51am

re: #63 Desert Dog

It was toast the patient at that level, no?

And that’s bad because?

105 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:03:52am

re: #89 calcajun

Please, keep in mind that ol’ L. Ron started this nonsense as part of a bet/joke that he could start a religion. Keeping in mind what I said about human nature yesterday— we should not be surprised that Scientology has gone as far as it.

follow the money….if there was no money to be made in that racket, there would be no Scientology….

106 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:04:11am

re: #81 SlartyBartfast

Didn’t Frank Zappa spoof Scientology in “Joe’s Garage”? Something about The Church of Appliantology(?) which worshipped appliances, founded by L. Ron Hoover, IIRC.

Yes. Joe gave all his money to L. Ron Hoover, who told him that all his problems were due to his being a latent appliance fetishist, and he needed to well, plook (to use Zappa’s word) machines.
Then, he goes to “The Closet”, a nightclub where he meets his love, the model XQJ-37 nuclear powered pansexual roto-plooker. He has to pick it up in German, though. I won’t repeat the words here; quite NSFW, even in German.

107 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:04:23am

re: #73 XMarine

Is it true that Scientology is the result of a bet between L. Ron Hubbard and Alfred Elton VanVogt?

Maybe. None of the Futurians would confirm the tale.

I’m getting coffee.

108 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:04:42am
109 Golem Akbar  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:04:51am

/At least he didn’t blame the Jooos.

110 Mad Al-Jaffee  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:05:45am

According to Livia Soprano, psychiatry is “a racket, run by the jews.”

111 bellamags  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:06:04am

re: #108 MandyManners

My heart was completely broken when I found out John was a scientologist. I had the biggest crush on him when I was little because of “Grease”. Now I am just saddened.

112 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:06:06am
113 MJ  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:06:22am

re: #84 A.W.

Well, scientologists are dumb, and its a scam, but ultimately it is harmless, so far. maybe that will change, but right now its hard to get to worked up about them.

of course that doesn’t stop me from messing with them at the mall where they are set up. i walk by, going, “Lord Xemu is coming to get you!” Heh.

But yes, claiming psychiatry caused the holocaust is retarded.

Not so harmless:

Scientology’s war on psychiatry

The controversial church, whose founder called shrinks “terrorists” and which labels mental illness a fraud, is closer than you think to implanting its extreme beliefs in the nation’s laws and schools.
[Link: www.rickross.com…]

and

Death of scientologist Lisa McPherson

[Link: www.whyaretheydead.net…]

114 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:06:26am

Somewhat OT: the only motion picture “shrink” scenes I’ve ever liked are … the one near the beginning of Shakespeare In Love … and Jeff Daniels’ scenes in The Butcher’s Wife.

115 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:06:45am

re: #111 bellamags

My heart was completely broken when I found out John was a scientologist. I had the biggest crush on him when I was little because of “Grease”. Now I am just saddened.

I can put that aside.

116 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:07:06am

These people are crazy. Everyone knows that Obamology is the only true religion.

//

117 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:07:06am

re: #84 A.W.

The Scientologists would try get people to take their tests by enticing them from the street. My roommate and I pulled one on them:

Scientologist to us “Have you ever heard of Scientology?”
1 of us: “Yes. Isn’t that L. Ron Hubbard’s thing?”
Scientologist (thinks he has us): “Yes”
Us: “He used to write science fiction”
Scientologist: “Yes…”
other of us: “Only he used to call it science fiction”

While the scientologist tried to come up with a reply, we went on our way.

118 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:07:22am

re: #84 A.W.

What’s the Harm? on Scientology

119 Desert Dog  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:07:46am

re: #116 Ford_Prefect

These people are crazy. Everyone knows that Obamology is the only true religion.

//

Amen…oops, I mean AHEM

120 bellamags  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:07:57am

re: #115 MandyManners

LOL

121 Golem Akbar  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:08:07am

re: #110 Mad Al-Jaffee

According to Livia Soprano, psychiatry is “a racket, run by the jews.”

/Okay, yes, we Jooos are behind it.

122 Leonidas Hoplite  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:08:23am

re: #86 redheadredstate

Does anyone else see a connection between the fact that many of the Hollywooders are Scientologists and Looney Liberals? From one cult to another seems to me.

It does seem that many in the entertainment industry live in an alternate reality. Does this having anything to do with the (aparently) necessary ability to suspend belief in the real in order to become a convincing actor/vehicle of an adopted role? Or, does being an actor/entertainer require unwavering and overly optimistic belief in goodness, and not evil, since evil does not require actors/entertainers?

123 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:08:26am

This Scientology Psychiatrist crap goes back a long, long way.

Xenu, also Xemu (pronounced /ˈziːnuː/[1][2][3]), was, according to Scientology founder and science fiction writer L. Ron Hubbard, the dictator of the “Galactic Confederacy” who, 75 million years ago, brought billions[4][5] of his people to Earth in DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and killed them using hydrogen bombs. Scientology holds that the essences of these many people remained, and that they form around people in modern times, causing them spiritual harm.[6][1] Members of the Church of Scientology widely deny or try to hide the Xenu story.[7][8]

These events are known within Scientology as “Incident II”,[9] and the traumatic memories associated with them as The Wall of Fire. The story of Xenu is part of Scientologist teachings about extraterrestrial civilizations and alien interventions in Earthly events, collectively described as space opera by Hubbard. Hubbard detailed the story in Operating Thetan level III (OT III) in 1967, warning that this material was “calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it.”[sic][10][11]

The Xenu story is part of the Church of Scientology’s secret “Advanced Technology”,[9] normally only revealed to members who have already contributed large amounts of money.[12] The Church avoids mention of Xenu in public statements and has gone to considerable effort to maintain the story’s confidentiality, including legal action on the grounds of both copyright and trade secrecy.[13] Despite this, much material on Xenu has leaked to the public via court documents, copies of Hubbard’s notes and the Internet.[7]

The story of Xenu is covered in OT III, part of Scientology’s secret “Advanced Technology” doctrines taught only to advanced members who have undergone many expensive hours of auditing and reached the state of Clear.[9][12] It is described in more detail in the accompanying confidential “Assists” lecture of October 3, 1968 and is dramatized in Revolt in the Stars (a screenplay written by L. Ron Hubbard in 1977).[9][15]

Hubbard wrote that seventy-five million years ago, Xenu was the ruler of a Galactic Confederacy which consisted of 26 stars and 76 planets including Earth, which was then known as “Teegeeack”.[5][11] The planets were overpopulated, each having an average population of 178 billion.[4][6][1] The Galactic Confederacy’s civilization was comparable to our own, with aliens “walking around in clothes which looked very remarkably like the clothes they wear this very minute” and using cars, trains and boats looking exactly the same as those “circa 1950, 1960” on Earth.[16]

Xenu was about to be deposed from power, so he devised a plot to eliminate the excess population from his dominions. With the assistance of psychiatrists, he summoned billions[4][5] of his citizens together under the pretense of income tax inspections, then paralyzed them and froze them in a mixture of alcohol and glycol to capture their souls. The kidnapped populace was loaded into spacecraft for transport to the site of extermination, the planet of Teegeeack (Earth).[5] The appearance of these spacecraft would later be subconsciously expressed in the design of the Douglas DC-8, the only difference being: “the DC8 had fans, propellers on it and the space plane didn’t.”[14] When they had reached Teegeeack/Earth, the paralyzed citizens were unloaded around the bases of volcanoes across the planet.[5][11] Hydrogen bombs were then lowered into the volcanoes and detonated simultaneously.[11] Only a few aliens’ physical bodies survived. Hubbard described the scene in his film script, Revolt in the Stars:

124 yma o hyd  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:08:32am

re: #109 Golem Akbar

/At least he didn’t blame the Jooos.

Sure they are - wasn’t psychology ‘invented’ by Jooos?

Nuff said …

125 Gella  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:08:33am

this is very disturbing Scientology web cite
[Link: www.whyaretheydead.net…]

126 LGoPs  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:08:49am

I’m perplexed by the fact that words don’t seem to mean anything these days.
Scientology for example. There seems to be little or no ‘science’ involved. Yet it’s name implies the opposite.
Liberalism is another example. It implies tolerance, understanding and acceptance yet the reality is a lockstep, robotic conformity puntuated by screeching hystrionics.
Just a musing observation………

127 Leonidas Hoplite  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:09:09am

re: #103 oh_dude

Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

128 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:09:20am

re: #73 XMarine

Is it true that Scientology is the result of a bet between L. Ron Hubbard and Alfred Elton VanVogt?

Find out for yourself

129 subsailor68  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:09:35am

OT - and apologies if this has been covered already - but it is just about as nuts as Scientology:

Public funds to pay for private debt
Houston aims to clear balances so some can buy homes

Yep, help people pay off car loans, credit cards, and so on - so their credit scores can be high enough to get that ole’ mortgage.

Let’s see - can’t pay your car loans or credit cards? I’ve got an idea! Let’s take care of all that so’s ya can get a mortgage you won’t be able to pay off either!

I’m a Texan, and I’m livid!

130 blangwort  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:09:58am

It seems I’m a little bit hazy
Scientologists think we are crazy
The lack of their sanity
Can lead to calamity
But we lizards are at fault all the way, see

131 MrSilverDragon  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:11:08am

I think the “psychology” of the terrorist mind was already there long before any “psychiatry” to the terrorist mind was involved.

132 Kenneth  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:11:09am

re: #79 HelloDare

So who and what drugs changed Zawahiri? Inquiring Minds want to know.

It’s turtles all the way down.

133 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:11:28am

Any Scientology metldowns?

134 rawmuse  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:11:36am

The two major cults in show business are Scientology and the Democrat party.

135 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:11:48am

re: #120 bellamags

Now I have the strange urge to go buy a poodle skirt.

136 smokefire  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:11:53am

My favorite Shrink

137 Jetpilot1101  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:11:54am

re: #133 Killgore Trout

Any Scientology metldowns?

I predict before comment #375

138 redheadredstate  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:12:02am

re: #122 Leonidas Hoplite

It does seem that many in the entertainment industry live in an alternate reality. Does this having anything to do with the (aparently) necessary ability to suspend belief in the real in order to become a convincing actor/vehicle of an adopted role? Or, does being an actor/entertainer require unwavering and overly optimistic belief in goodness, and not evil, since evil does not require actors/entertainers?

I think that Heath Ledger answered that for us. He would get so into a role that his body would give out but his mind would continue racing according to those closest to him. Also Christian Bale said while making DK that Ledger would stay in character even when the cameras were off. It seems to me that this indicates some type of disfunction (and I’m being kind since he’s not around to defend himself). I’ve heard countless stories of actors having similar problems “turning off the switch” Seems to me if you have this obsessive kind of personality trait then Scientology would be a natural match.

139 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:12:11am

re: #132 Kenneth

It’s turtles all the way down.

Man, that was terrapin.

140 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:12:32am

re: #123 HelloDare

Now, that’s just bat-shit crazy.

141 wiffersnapper  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:12:42am

Are they TRYING to be crazier than Westboro?

142 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:12:46am

re: #135 MandyManners

Now I have the strange urge to go buy a poodle skirt.

Poodle killer!

143 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:12:58am

re: #123 HelloDare

Xenu was about to be deposed from power, so he devised a plot to eliminate the excess population from his dominions. With the assistance of psychiatrists, he summoned billions[4][5] of his citizens together under the pretense of income tax inspections, then paralyzed them and froze them in a mixture of alcohol and glycol to capture their souls.


We better watch it if 0bama proposes income tax inspections.

(Also, DC-8s were jets and didn’t have propellers. L. Ron, you got it wrong.)

144 Onslow  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:13:05am
145 Gang of One  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:13:10am

This is the cult of L. Ron Paul, right?

/don’t know if someone already said this …

146 JacksonTn  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:13:20am

Back out on the road on business …and motel hell …hope ya’ll have a great day …if I don’t come back it is because I got sucked into traffic triangle in Atlanta …don’t know how Atlanta lizards do it …

147 SasquatchOnSteroids  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:14:37am

I wonder if Tom owns a Snuggie.

148 quickjustice  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:15:02am

L. Ron Hubbard, Dianetics, and the Comic Books:

[Link: pseudoscientology.wordpress.com…]

149 bellamags  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:15:06am

re: #147 SasquatchOnSteroids

I wonder if Tom owns a Snuggie.

LOL. probably all three fashion colors.

150 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:15:08am

re: #143 Kosh’s Shadow

We better watch it if 0bama proposes income tax inspections.

(Also, DC-8s were jets and didn’t have propellers. L. Ron, you got it wrong.)

Man, that blows the whole religion. /

151 LGoPs  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:15:13am

re: #129 subsailor68

OT - and apologies if this has been covered already - but it is just about as nuts as Scientology:

Public funds to pay for private debt
Houston aims to clear balances so some can buy homes

Yep, help people pay off car loans, credit cards, and so on - so their credit scores can be high enough to get that ole’ mortgage.

Let’s see - can’t pay your car loans or credit cards? I’ve got an idea! Let’s take care of all that so’s ya can get a mortgage you won’t be able to pay off either!

I’m a Texan, and I’m livid!

I was talking to the wife about this subject this morning and I concluded that I’ve always wanted an Aston Martin. Of course I can’t afford one but what the hell….why should I be deprived.
I think I’ll go and buy one this weekend and a few months down the road, when I can’t afford the payments I’ll just curl up into a ball of self-pity and screech about the evil car dealers trying to repossess it………
/ Fuck. *My mind reels at the idiocy I’m seeing all around me*

152 redheadredstate  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:15:38am

re: #147 SasquatchOnSteroids

I wonder if Tom owns a Snuggie.

I wonder if he owns a straight jacket!

153 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:15:51am

re: #147 SasquatchOnSteroids

I wonder if Tom owns a Snuggie.

I don’t know, but he definitely owns a Slapchop.

154 zombie  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:16:05am

Making fun of Scientologists is easy pickin’s. To me, they are beneath notice. The “Anonymous” group is always trying to get me to cover their anti-Scientology protests and post the reports on zombietime, but I never do as they wish, saying instead that I’m just not interested.

There are all sorts of wacky cults in America; this is just one of them. Yes, they are nuts; yes, they are spooky; but so are many noxious cults and “belief systems” in this country of ours.

So far, to my knowledge, Scientologists have not committed any violent terrorist acts. And they have essentially no effect on public policy. And so, I let them continue on their merry way to madness.

And mind you, I am someone who actually has had serious run-ins with the Scientologists. Scary, scary stuff. Can’t talk about it here. But despite all that, I think the best “solution” for the Scientology “problem” is to simply ignore them.

155 blangwort  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:16:15am

re: #152 redheadredstate

I wonder if he owns a straight jacket!

Or a straight jacket owns him…

156 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:16:32am

re: #151 LGoPs

I was talking to the wife about this subject this morning and I concluded that I’ve always wanted an Aston Martin. Of course I can’t afford one but what the hell….why should I be deprived.
I think I’ll go and buy one this weekend and a few months down the road, when I can’t afford the payments I’ll just curl up into a ball of self-pity and screech about the evil car dealers trying to repossess it………
/ Fuck. *My mind reels at the idiocy I’m seeing all around me*

Then, when it gets repossessed, ACORN can break into it for you, so you get it back.

157 Leonidas Hoplite  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:16:32am

re: #153 Ford_Prefect

I don’t know, but he definitely owns a Slapchop.

If you stuffed a Shamwow in his mouth, would it stop him from talking?

158 subsailor68  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:16:39am

re: #151 LGoPs

I was talking to the wife about this subject this morning and I concluded that I’ve always wanted an Aston Martin. Of course I can’t afford one but what the hell….why should I be deprived.
I think I’ll go and buy one this weekend and a few months down the road, when I can’t afford the payments I’ll just curl up into a ball of self-pity and screech about the evil car dealers trying to repossess it………
/ Fuck. *My mind reels at the idiocy I’m seeing all around me*

Heck, don’t even worry about curling up or screeching! Just give ACORN a call and they’ll tell ya how to hold on to it by just “squatting” in it.

;-)

159 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:17:22am
160 Devil's Advocate  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:17:27am

I have a really important question:

If Zawahiri is controlling OBL, who is controlling Zawahiri?

It is amazing what simple logic does.

161 subsailor68  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:17:39am

re: #156 Ward Cleaver

Then, when it gets repossessed, ACORN can break into it for you, so you get it back.

Hmmm…great minds think alike!

:-)

162 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:17:41am

re: #143 Kosh’s Shadow

We better watch it if 0bama proposes income tax inspections.

(Also, DC-8s were jets and didn’t have propellers. L. Ron, you got it wrong.)

Now I know what my grandfather meant when he used to say, “Beware of income tax inspectors bearing alcohol and glycol martinis.”

163 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:17:51am
164 splat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:18:00am

re: #103 oh_dude

I find your lack of faith disturbing……

165 Golem Akbar  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:18:16am

re: #139 Ford_Prefect

Man, that was terrapin.


Uh oh, someone snapped.

166 redheadredstate  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:18:20am

re: #154 zombie

Making fun of Scientologists is easy pickin’s. To me, they are beneath notice. The “Anonymous” group is always trying to get me to cover their anti-Scientology protests and post the reports on zombietime, but I never do as they wish, saying instead that I’m just not interested.

There are all sorts of wacky cults in America; this is just one of them. Yes, they are nuts; yes, they are spooky; but so are many noxious cults and “belief systems” in this country of ours.

So far, to my knowledge, Scientologists have not committed any violent terrorist acts. And they have essentially no effect on public policy. And so, I let them continue on their merry way to madness.

And mind you, I am someone who actually has had serious run-ins with the Scientologists. Scary, scary stuff. Can’t talk about it here. But despite all that, I think the best “solution” for the Scientology “problem” is to simply ignore them.

Zombie I love you but in this case there is actual proof that Scientology harms people. See some posts above regarding deaths related to Scientology. And I’m still not convinced that lack of care due to Scientology beliefs led to Jett Travoltas death.

167 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:18:56am

re: #151 LGoPs

I was talking to the wife about this subject this morning and I concluded that I’ve always wanted an Aston Martin. Of course I can’t afford one but what the hell….why should I be deprived.
I think I’ll go and buy one this weekend and a few months down the road, when I can’t afford the payments I’ll just curl up into a ball of self-pity and screech about the evil car dealers trying to repossess it………
/ Fuck. *My mind reels at the idiocy I’m seeing all around me*

Only an Aston Martin?
I want my own luxury submarine.
I wonder if I should go ahead and order it and get the government to bail me out when I can’t make the payments. (They don’t give a price.)
/

168 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:19:29am

re: #154 zombie

BTW, re “cults”, have I ever asked you if you’ve read The Last Days Of The Late, Great State Of California, by Curt Gentry (G.P. Putnam, 1968)?

169 Killer Tomato  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:19:48am

re: #102 realwest

Hey real.
To be honest, what worries me is the only doctors we will be able to see will be ones dispensing meds to quiet us down and shut us up.

170 MandyManners  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:19:52am

re: #142 Ford_Prefect

Poodle killer!

I’ll also kill a few saddle Oxfords for some shoes.

171 Grogtank  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:19:55am

Perhaps there is hope for us all with a little change!
Fancy pipe with a mild soothing blend. $45
Comfy black leather sofa. $750
A fiscally conservative capitalist named Obama. Priceless!

172 notutopia  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:20:05am

So, according to this scientologist,
Bid Laden was really a nice man, until Zawahiri gave him a “transforming drug” and it made him an overnight madman who created a whole terrorist org?
None of this has anything to do with the fact that BidLaden has a known end stage renal failure disease with resultant severe uremia with probable cerebral neuropathy?

But, this has to do with psychiatry….
/

173 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:20:40am

Well there is one good thing about Scientology, creationists, Holocaust deniers, and other cooks—- It makes me look less screwed up than I really am.

174 Noam Sayin'  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:20:45am

I read Dianetics in college. Tried to keep an open mind about things, and in retrospect it’s kind of a hoot if anyone wants to give it a try.

Finally, about 2/3 of the way through the book, reading silently in my apartment, had had enough. I actually - out loud - yelled, “Oh, come on!” and threw the book out the window.

175 subsailor68  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:20:47am

re: #163 taxfreekiller

The city has a new kidnapping and org. crime task force just set up
to deal with the Zeta enforcers who now are known to be operating in the City.

Can someone then explain to me why a couple of leftist congresscritters and the mayor of Phoenix are going after Joe Arpaio - the sheriff of Maricopa County and the only one who’s been at all effective?

176 redheadredstate  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:20:52am

Awww PIMF
Regarding # 166 I meant to say that I’m still not convinced that lack of care due to Scientology beliefs didn’t lead to Jett Travolta’s death

177 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:20:59am

re: #154 zombie


They are not harmless. If you believe in Xenu, it’s a small step to believe that Barack Obama is the messiah. /

178 smokefire  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:21:13am

A fiscally conservative capitalist named Obama. Priceless!

More like fantasy, than priceless

179 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:22:18am

re: #174 Noam Sayin’

I thought about reading it once, but then I remembered I had some lint to clean out of my belly button and that was the end of that.

180 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:22:22am

re: #170 MandyManners

I’ll also kill a few saddle Oxfords for some shoes.

If you see a herd of naugas, I have an old couch that needs recovering.

181 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:22:30am
182 NukeAtomrod  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:22:35am

You know what these guys need?

Psychiatrists.

183 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:22:37am

re: #177 HelloDare

They are not harmless. If you believe in Xenu, it’s a small step to believe that Barack Obama is the messiah. /

Then we are too late.

184 zombie  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:22:45am

re: #166 redheadredstate

Zombie I love you but in this case there is actual proof that Scientology harms people. See some posts above regarding deaths related to Scientology.

The same could be said of Christian Scientism, Voudon, Hare Krishna-ism, Santeria — you name it. Religious cults often either deny normal medical treatment to practitioners, and/or hunt down apostates, and so on. The bigger question is: Are they a hazard to the public well-being? If not, we have no choice but to let these religions continue to exist. It’s in the Constitution, no matter how distasteful we find the religions.

185 Jimmah  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:22:46am

re: #133 Killgore Trout

Any Scientology metldowns?

Not yet. Here’s my guess as to what a scientology meltdown might look:

“The comments on this thread display the kind of ignorance that gives non-scientologists a bad name. The teachings of scientology are intended to be read as metaphor - and a rather sophisticated one, incidentally, one that your tiny minds would not have the wit to process. There is a beauty and moral grandeur to this religion that your black hearts in all their fundamental poopiness could not admit of in a thousand of your earth-centuries. I will plead on your behalf with the great ones.”

186 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:22:51am
187 Macker  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:23:00am

re: #154 zombie

Making fun of Scientologists is easy pickin’s. To me, they are beneath notice. The “Anonymous” group is always trying to get me to cover their anti-Scientology protests and post the reports on zombietime, but I never do as they wish, saying instead that I’m just not interested.

There are all sorts of wacky cults in America; this is just one of them. Yes, they are nuts; yes, they are spooky; but so are many noxious cults and “belief systems” in this country of ours.

So far, to my knowledge, Scientologists have not committed any violent terrorist acts. And they have essentially no effect on public policy. And so, I let them continue on their merry way to madness.

And mind you, I am someone who actually has had serious run-ins with the Scientologists. Scary, scary stuff. Can’t talk about it here. But despite all that, I think the best “solution” for the Scientology “problem” is to simply ignore them.

I hope this doesn’t sound strange…but given a choice between the Scientologists and the Islamofascists, I’ll take the Scientologists every time!

/Must I?

188 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:23:04am

re: #173 Nevergiveup

Well there is one good thing about Scientology, creationists, Holocaust deniers, and other cooks—- It makes me look less screwed up than I really am.

Kind of a drop in the ocean, though, isn’t it?

////

189 sffilk  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:23:04am

*sigh*

They’ll never learn.

190 smokefire  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:23:07am

re: #175 subsailor68

beats the shit out of me.

Maybe he is doing his job too well, and far be it from me that people do their jobs.

191 zombie  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:23:08am

re: #168 pre-Boomer Marine brat

BTW, re “cults”, have I ever asked you if you’ve read The Last Days Of The Late, Great State Of California, by Curt Gentry (G.P. Putnam, 1968)?

I haven’t read it.

192 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:23:14am
193 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:23:17am

re: #175 subsailor68

The city has a new kidnapping and org. crime task force just set up
to deal with the Zeta enforcers who now are known to be operating in the City.

Can someone then explain to me why a couple of leftist congresscritters and the mayor of Phoenix are going after Joe Arpaio - the sheriff of Maricopa County and the only one who’s been at all effective?

Self-answered question.

194 brookly red  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:23:18am

re: #166 redheadredstate

Zombie I love you but in this case there is actual proof that Scientology harms people. See some posts above regarding deaths related to Scientology. And I’m still not convinced that lack of care due to Scientology beliefs led to Jett Travoltas death.

I have know a few scientology types, they were all young people who had recently inherited large sums of money… coincidence?

195 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:23:54am

re: #174 Noam Sayin’

I read Dianetics in college. Tried to keep an open mind about things, and in retrospect it’s kind of a hoot if anyone wants to give it a try.

Finally, about 2/3 of the way through the book, reading silently in my apartment, had had enough. I actually - out loud - yelled, “Oh, come on!” and threw the book out the window.

I never tried to read it even though it was the first donation to my college’s science fiction society’s library.

196 subsailor68  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:24:02am

re: #193 OldLineTexan

Self-answered question.

LOL! Okay, got me.

;-)

197 Gella  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:24:05am

re: #178 smokefire

A fiscally conservative capitalist named Obama. Priceless!

More like fantasy, than priceless

i say Santa

198 Macker  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:24:27am

re: #175 subsailor68

Because Sheriff Joe is a Republican, while Phil Gordon and the congresscritters involved are Demo☭rats?

/swag

199 LGoPs  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:24:28am

re: #154 zombie

Making fun of Scientologists is easy pickin’s. To me, they are beneath notice. The “Anonymous” group is always trying to get me to cover their anti-Scientology protests and post the reports on zombietime, but I never do as they wish, saying instead that I’m just not interested.

There are all sorts of wacky cults in America; this is just one of them. Yes, they are nuts; yes, they are spooky; but so are many noxious cults and “belief systems” in this country of ours.

So far, to my knowledge, Scientologists have not committed any violent terrorist acts. And they have essentially no effect on public policy. And so, I let them continue on their merry way to madness.

And mind you, I am someone who actually has had serious run-ins with the Scientologists. Scary, scary stuff. Can’t talk about it here. But despite all that, I think the best “solution” for the Scientology “problem” is to simply ignore them.

I think you’re dead on. Shunning is probably an archaic word but I think it would be the most effective tool in dealing with these kinds of phenomenon. The societal equivalent of *GAZE* here on LGF, so to speak.
The problem is that in today’s media culture, everything, even the most un-noteworthy nutty idea, gets focused on and provided a forum that distorts it out of all proportionality. The media is a huge magnifying glass that gives credence where it is often undue.

200 Nevergiveup  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:24:30am

re: #188 Ford_Prefect

Kind of a drop in the ocean, though, isn’t it?

////

Yeah, but then I’m one of the sanest people I know?

201 Golem Akbar  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:24:49am

re: #184 zombie

The same could be said of Christian Scientism, Voudon, Hare Krishna-ism, Santeria — you name it. Religious cults often either deny normal medical treatment to practitioners, and/or hunt down apostates, and so on. The bigger question is: Are they a hazard to the public well-being? If not, we have no choice but to let these religions continue to exist. It’s in the Constitution, no matter how distasteful we find the religions.

No question about it. Ban it, drive it underground, and it becomes popular. Publish the truth about it, let people know, and it will wither and die on its own.

202 Kenneth  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:24:55am

re: #160 Devil’s Advocate

I want to know how many psychiatrists are roaming around the mountains with the Taliban, hiding out in Chechnya, tunneling in Gaza, hanging out in Kashmir, Thailand, Philippines, Algeria, & so on, prescribing the thousands of them with psychiatric drugs and brain washing all of them?

That’s a hell of a lot of psychiatrists.

203 ziggyelman  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:25:12am

re: #172 notutopia

So, according to this scientologist,
Bid Laden was really a nice man, until Zawahiri gave him a “transforming drug” and it made him an overnight madman who created a whole terrorist org?
None of this has anything to do with the fact that BidLaden has a known end stage renal failure disease with resultant severe uremia with probable cerebral neuropathy?

But, this has to do with psychiatry….
/

Isn’t it amazing how many seemingly intelligent folks get caught up in this krazy kult? And I can’t convince people to listen to a cd, or see a particular film! :(
This story sounds like something the Onion couldn’t even dream up!

204 lostlakehiker  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:25:18am

Scientology is a case in point to prove the utility and validity* of Islam. The Muslim may not know everything, but he at least knows this: scientology is bull.

Scientology hates Psychiatry because the psychiatrist threatens scientology’s cash flow. Followers of scientology probably need psychiatric help, and if they weren’t warned off, a psychiatrist might steer them away from donating half their worldly goods to scientology and forsaking all friendships and contacts outside the cult.

*validity is relative.

205 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:25:30am

re: #174 Noam Sayin’

I read Dianetics in college. Tried to keep an open mind about things, and in retrospect it’s kind of a hoot if anyone wants to give it a try.

Finally, about 2/3 of the way through the book, reading silently in my apartment, had had enough. I actually - out loud - yelled, “Oh, come on!” and threw the book out the window.

… and hit John Travolta in the head?

/so that’s how he found it

206 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:25:52am

re: #186 ploome hineni

he is not?

Now is not a good time to stop taking your meds.

207 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:25:55am
208 Wendya  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:26:11am

re: #59 Ford_Prefect

I can’t understand how these people can mortgage their lives by buying this stuff. Even with a Hubbard clause.

Look at the results of the last election.

209 Golem Akbar  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:26:33am

re: #192 ploome hineni

need anaesthesia


I have another idea.

210 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:27:20am

OT: Strange Fish With See Through Head

211 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:27:22am

re: #207 buzzsawmonkey

“Hey, haven’t I Xenu around someplace?”

Quit thetaning me like that and clear off!

/

212 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:27:25am
213 smokefire  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:27:39am

OK, Xenu……………..Xanadu

214 calcajun  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:27:42am

re: #127 Leonidas Hoplite

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

The ability to destroy a planet (’s economy) is insignificant compared to the power of the Force.

215 Jetpilot1101  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:27:54am

OT: Rush’s “Banking Queen” song makes me laugh my ass off! On right now.

216 ziggyelman  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:27:55am

re: #181 Iron Fist

We’re all going to Hell. Scientologists do believe in Hell, don’t they? That’s the place where they make you watch Battlefield Earth forever.

Ha! Man, if that’s true, that should make everyone want to be good for the rest of their lives!

217 redheadredstate  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:28:14am

re: #184 zombie

The same could be said of Christian Scientism, Voudon, Hare Krishna-ism, Santeria — you name it. Religious cults often either deny normal medical treatment to practitioners, and/or hunt down apostates, and so on. The bigger question is: Are they a hazard to the public well-being? If not, we have no choice but to let these religions continue to exist. It’s in the Constitution, no matter how distasteful we find the religions.

Oh I agree that we cannot just shut down all these cults en masse. But we certainly can take them on a case-by-case basis and see if the actual belief system caused the death/injury. If that is found to be true then we hold the people responsible and at the same time shine light on the fact that their religious beliefs caused the death/injury. If enough of these cases come to light then I think people would be less susceptable to joining them in the first place. I’m an advocate of exposing them for what they are again on a case-by-case basis.

218 notutopia  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:28:33am

re: #203 ziggyelman

Isn’t it amazing how many seemingly intelligent folks get caught up in this krazy kult? And I can’t convince people to listen to a cd, or see a particular film! :(
This story sounds like something the Onion couldn’t even dream up!

Hey, you can lead a good horse to water, but you cannot make it drink!

219 Chicago Blonde  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:28:36am

And I thought my head was going to explode on the other thread.

220 MJ  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:28:52am

re: #201 Golem Akbar

No question about it. Ban it, drive it underground, and it becomes popular. Publish the truth about it, let people know, and it will wither and die on its own.

The trouble was you couldn’t really talk about Scientology without getting sued and harassed.
The New Republic and some of it’s authors spent years battling Scientology in court and out of court.
You think the Ron Paul people are fanatics? They’re nothing compared to these some of these people.

221 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:28:55am

re: #210 Killgore Trout

That’s the cockpit of a highly advanced personal submarine.

/

222 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:29:15am
223 HelloDare  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:29:42am

Come to think of it, Zawahiri does look a little like Freud. Must be the beard.

224 wrenchwench  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:29:45am

re: #168 pre-Boomer Marine brat

BTW, re “cults”, have I ever asked you if you’ve read The Last Days Of The Late, Great State Of California, by Curt Gentry (G.P. Putnam, 1968)?


It’s been a few years, and I don’t remember a “cult” asppect to it, but that was a very entertaining book!

225 Pyrocles  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:29:53am

I think it’s because celebrities do live in an alternate reality. Everywhere they go, they’re hounded by adoring fans. They need to reserve anywhere they go in advance, to avoid the crowds of proles. Everything they need is constantly lavished on them wherever they go. They don’t live normal lives; they can’t.

This forms them into celebrity cliques of their own. Celebrities can only be in peace around other celebrities; their fame becomes their “prison”. They get into drugs, exotic kooky religions, far-out feel-good Leftist activities, and weird perverted practices (see Michael Jackson who never actually lived a normal life). Celebrities become trapped in their own cloistered world of overindulgence and elitism. They lose touch with reality.


re: #122 Leonidas Hoplite

It does seem that many in the entertainment industry live in an alternate reality. Does this having anything to do with the (aparently) necessary ability to suspend belief in the real in order to become a convincing actor/vehicle of an adopted role? Or, does being an actor/entertainer require unwavering and overly optimistic belief in goodness, and not evil, since evil does not require actors/entertainers?

226 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:29:54am

Scientologists + Creationists = Scientationists

227 johnnyreb  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:30:17am

re: #201 Golem Akbar

No question about it. Ban it, drive it underground, and it becomes popular. Publish the truth about it, let people know, and it will wither and die on its own.

That isn’t working for these guys. They have even been banned in Germany as being a cult and they are still very popular in Europe. They have plenty of “churches” here in the US also. They have a huge money making apparatus in place and they are not going away anytime soon.

As far as people saying they are harmless, I must disagree. There are lots of websites around about people who left the “religion”. The most harm they do is monetary, but, they can and do harass people through extended legal means that they think are a threat to them. There are also a few cases of people being denied medical treatment due to their beliefs.

228 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:30:18am

re: #172 notutopia

Bernard Miniter says he doesn’t have renal failure in Misinformation.

229 Golem Akbar  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:30:46am

re: #220 MJ

The trouble was you couldn’t really talk about Scientology without getting sued and harassed.
The New Republic and some of it’s authors spent years battling Scientology in court and out of court.
You think the Ron Paul people are fanatics? They’re nothing compared to these some of these people.

This blog (and Charles) is discussing it. Other blogs could, too. Let the Scientologists try to sue the blogosphere. It ain’t gonna help them one bit.

230 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:30:48am
231 Jimmah  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:31:16am

re: #184 zombie

Any cult that seriously misleads it’s followers on medical issues is a threat to the public.

232 ErnieG  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:31:18am

re: #172 notutopia

So, according to this scientologist,
Bid Laden was really a nice man, until Zawahiri gave him a “transforming drug” and it made him an overnight madman who created a whole terrorist org?
None of this has anything to do with the fact that BidLaden has a known end stage renal failure disease with resultant severe uremia with probable cerebral neuropathy?

But, this has to do with psychiatry….
/

If instead of “transforming drugs” if he had been made to sit with soup cans in his hands, watching a needle swing back and forth, things would have turned out differently.

/

233 debutaunt  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:31:20am

re: #121 Golem Akbar

/Okay, yes, we Jooos are behind it.

re: #110 Mad Al-Jaffee

According to Livia Soprano, psychiatry is “a racket, run by the jews.”

Just wait until Loose Change connects all the elements of Scientology (the study of scient) with the jooo subplot.

234 subsailor68  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:31:45am

re: #218 notutopia

Hey, you can lead a good horse to water, but you cannot make it drink!

That reminds me of the answer Dorothy Parker gave when asked if she could use the word horticulture in a sentence:

“You can lead a whore to culture, but you can’t make her think.”

;-)

235 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:32:06am

re: #191 zombie

I haven’t read it.

It’s a hoot, and a savvy social commentary, all in one. The author is an old-line Californian, and the book is a commentary upon what California had become by the Sixties. The author is what I’d call a lower-case-l liberal (Reagan as Governor takes a lot of flak.) However, the author is hardly a “whatever goes”, cap-L wacko. He’s most sarcastic when describing … *grin* … well, just try to find it. Though now outdated, it’s a very interesting book.

236 Racer X  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:32:42am

re: #210 Killgore Trout

That is just freaky.

237 LGoPs  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:32:54am

re: #181 Iron Fist

We’re all going to Hell. Scientologists do believe in Hell, don’t they? That’s the place where they make you watch Battlefield Earth forever.

I detect a hint of sarcasm in your comment. I will have you know that, other than the fact that it is a POS, Battlefield Earth has all the essential elements of a movie. It used cameras to capture the action - much more effective than sketch artist drawings. It used actual dialogue. Only the very prissy would criticize that it was incoherent. Hell, it even had credits at the end.
You’re being way too judgemental…….
/ :)

238 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:32:55am

re: #226 Ford_Prefect

Scientologists + Creationists = Scientationists

Scientology + Actor = Actor - Money

simplify by subtracting Actor from both sides of the equation

Scientology = - Money

Further proofs:

Obama = - Money

Therefore

Scientology = Obama

////////////////////////////////////////

239 OldLineTexan  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:33:35am

re: #232 ErnieG

If instead of “transforming drugs” if he had been made to sit with soup cans in his hands, watching a needle swing back and forth, things would have turned out differently.

/

Yes, he would just have attacked Oprah’s couch.

240 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:34:10am

Is it just me, or does this Scientologist nonsense about “where psychiatry leads” sound not too dissimilar to when Creationists make wild claims about “where believing in evolution leads”.

Sounds like a pretty straightforward formula:
1.) Think of the worst philosophy or historical events imaginable (Naziism, 9/11)
2.) Think of a scientific discipline or profession you don’t like or agree with.
3.) Inextricably Link the two through shameless selective quoting, wild leaps in reason, pure denial of true cause-and-effect or cart-before-horse reasoning, and/or flat out intellectual dishonesty.

241 rawmuse  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:34:38am

re: #210 Killgore Trout

Nice escape!

242 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:35:39am

re: #232 ErnieG

If instead of “transforming drugs” if he had been made to sit with soup cans in his hands, watching a needle swing back and forth, things would have turned out differently.

/

Hey, their e-meters look much classier now. They have LCD meters and look like cheap video games. I used to see the Scientologists trying to get people into their cult in front of the Prudential Center in Boston. I got close enough to the tables to see what was on them, but not close enough to get accosted. (I was ready, anyway; see my earlier post.)
Once I saw “Dianetics” on the tables, I knew what the funny machines were.

243 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:35:50am

re: #224 wrenchwench

It’s been a few years, and I don’t remember a “cult” asppect to it, but that was a very entertaining book!

He talks some about the cults.

244 joncelli  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:35:53am

Market’s looking up: +141.06 at 7225.84.

245 Kenneth  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:36:10am

Speaking of weird cults…

Barack Obama has found his third pick for Commerce Secretary, Gary Locke, the former governor of Washington. Should Obama be concerned about Locke’s involvement in the SafeHarbor scandal?

246 Leonidas Hoplite  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:36:31am

re: #213 smokefire



OK, Xenu……………..Xanadu

I like this one better….

247 ziggyelman  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:37:53am

re: #229 Golem Akbar

This blog (and Charles) is discussing it. Other blogs could, too. Let the Scientologists try to sue the blogosphere. It ain’t gonna help them one bit.

It’s part of their master plan….I think I heard a recording of L. Ron talking about suing folks being a great way to keep the facts from getting out. They know they won’t win, just scare people from investigating . Allegedly. Don’t want to get sued!

248 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:39:06am

re: #231 Jimmah

Any cult that seriously misleads it’s followers on medical issues is a threat to the public.

Tell that to the Christian Scientists.

249 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:40:06am

I used to have a roommate was visiting from Max Plank in Germany. Scientology is illegal there. So, being a curious sort of physicist, he went downtown to the First “Church” - they don’t believe in Jesus, so church always struck me as a bit odd - in DC.

He signed up for all of their mailings. Over the next several months we in the house - all physics graduate students, greedily devoured the insanity that would be mailed to us. We calculated that you could reach enlightenment for the low low price of only $728,000 assuming no hidden fees :). We found that you could join the Scientology Navy, they call it Sea-org, and they have a dashing brochure with sharp uniforms. We read and giggled through the non-sense that is Dianetics.

We guffawed through the night when we dug up the story of Xenu.

We then became concerned. This is a big organization. It sucks in lots and lots of suckers. We began to look into this rather sick and dangerous cult more seriously. We found out about the destruction of families, intimidation and suspicious deaths. We found out about people used up, chewed up and spit out. We found evidence of potent brainwashing.
We found out about how L Ron’s wife and other Scientologists tried to infiltrate the U.S. government and were sent to federal prison. We found horror stories of abuse while out at sea on the Trade Winds, the ship the L Ron lived on to evade paying taxes.

For the first time in my life, I thought that making a cult illegal was actually a good idea. I am very very interested in religious freedom. However, these guys are not exactly a religion. They are a pyramid scheme, they destroy people, and they are not exactly law abiding.

I can find links for all of the things I asserted above, but honestly a quick web search will get you there. There are a lot of very angry ex-scientologists spilling the beans across the net.

Charles, if you like the hate mail you are getting now, you will LOVE what you will get if the Scientologists notice you. They are all about relentless public defamation.

250 Jimmah  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:40:09am

re: #240 Lizard by the Bay

You nailed it.

251 theheat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:40:16am

When they come out with statements like this, it’s easier to understand why the Germans wanted to give these windbags the boot.

All the same, with ‘true’ conservative asshats like Jindal and his ilk promoting religion in schools, it gives me the warm fuzzies to know these pricks could lobby to have the same face time in schools as the Creationists (and other religions), pushing their crazy pseudo-science agendas.

BTW, Rush has an interview with Jindal posted. Not one tiny mention of Jindal’s batshit craziness, only comparisons to Jindal being a modern day Reagan, invigorating the conservative base.

Puke.

252 splat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:41:54am

re: #242 Kosh’s Shadow

Hey, their e-meters look much classier now. They have LCD meters and look like cheap video games.

BAH ! A real e-meter needs to a good old analog model with a swinging needle.. it’s the only thing that makes a good auditing session worthwhile..

Scientology is the kookiest crap I’ve ever read about. Even their OWN literature is off the scale in pure ‘was someone on drugs when they wrote this’ ? ( of course L.Ron did like to indulge ).

As a religion the cult of the FSM is more balanced.

253 Jimmah  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:41:59am

re: #248 Dianna

Tell that to the Christian Scientists.

I do, whenever the opportunity arises.

254 zombie  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:42:46am

re: #235 pre-Boomer Marine brat

It’s a hoot, and a savvy social commentary, all in one. The author is an old-line Californian, and the book is a commentary upon what California had become by the Sixties. The author is what I’d call a lower-case-l liberal (Reagan as Governor takes a lot of flak.) However, the author is hardly a “whatever goes”, cap-L wacko. He’s most sarcastic when describing … *grin* … well, just try to find it. Though now outdated, it’s a very interesting book.

Will do!

255 MJ  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:42:55am

re: #249 LudwigVanQuixote

I used to have a roommate was visiting from Max Plank in Germany. Scientology is illegal there. So, being a curious sort of physicist, he went downtown to the First “Church” - they don’t believe in Jesus, so church always struck me as a bit odd - in DC.

He signed up for all of their mailings. Over the next several months we in the house - all physics graduate students, greedily devoured the insanity that would be mailed to us. We calculated that you could reach enlightenment for the low low price of only $728,000 assuming no hidden fees :). We found that you could join the Scientology Navy, they call it Sea-org, and they have a dashing brochure with sharp uniforms. We read and giggled through the non-sense that is Dianetics.

We guffawed through the night when we dug up the story of Xenu.

We then became concerned. This is a big organization. It sucks in lots and lots of suckers. We began to look into this rather sick and dangerous cult more seriously. We found out about the destruction of families, intimidation and suspicious deaths. We found out about people used up, chewed up and spit out. We found evidence of potent brainwashing.
We found out about how L Ron’s wife and other Scientologists tried to infiltrate the U.S. government and were sent to federal prison. We found horror stories of abuse while out at sea on the Trade Winds, the ship the L Ron lived on to evade paying taxes.

For the first time in my life, I thought that making a cult illegal was actually a good idea. I am very very interested in religious freedom. However, these guys are not exactly a religion. They are a pyramid scheme, they destroy people, and they are not exactly law abiding.

I can find links for all of the things I asserted above, but honestly a quick web search will get you there. There are a lot of very angry ex-scientologists spilling the beans across the net.

Charles, if you like the hate mail you are getting now, you will LOVE what you will get if the Scientologists notice you. They are all about relentless public defamation.

Thanks Ludwig. Some people are under the impression this is a harmless crackpot organization. While I don’t approve of banning, I do approve of bringing as much light to this organization as possible.

256 ziggyelman  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:44:30am

re: #245 Kenneth

Speaking of weird cults…

Barack Obama has found his third pick for Commerce Secretary, Gary Locke, the former governor of Washington. Should Obama be concerned about Locke’s involvement in the SafeHarbor scandal?

Hmmm, very interesting. What do you bet after 2 step downs, the MSM will keep this quiet?

257 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:45:13am

re: #255 MJ

Thanks Ludwig. Some people are under the impression this is a harmless crackpot organization. While I don’t approve of banning, I do approve of bringing as much light to this organization as possible.

Like I said, I am very interested in religious freedom. The line though between legitimate religious expression and Jonestown though is something worth giving serious consideration. The Scientologists play for keeps.

258 Irish Rose  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:45:17am

Oh goody, a clambake!

259 Jimmah  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:47:07am

re: #184 zombie

The same could be said of Christian Scientism, Voudon, Hare Krishna-ism, Santeria — you name it. Religious cults often either deny normal medical treatment to practitioners, and/or hunt down apostates, and so on. The bigger question is: Are they a hazard to the public well-being? If not, we have no choice but to let these religions continue to exist. It’s in the Constitution, no matter how distasteful we find the religions.

To me there is no question of banning any of these religions. That would be absurd and unconstitutional. But there is nothing absurd or unconstitutional about those of us with some sense telling them to their faces what we think of their bullshit and warning the public about them. That’s merely the other side of their right to proselytise.

260 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:47:37am

re: #258 Irish Rose

Oh goody, a clambake!

Yup. Makes me want to watch the South Park “In the Closet” episode again.

261 Irish Rose  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:48:44am

re: #249 LudwigVanQuixote

Everything that you’ve stated about the COS here is true, and I regret that I have but one upding to give.

262 mikalm  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:48:44am

Late to the thread again… :-(

If anyone wants to read a free, online copy of the best book ever written about ElRon and the Church of $cientology, check out Bare-Faced Messiah, by British journalist Russell Miller. All your suspicions about the origins of the cult, as well as the utter batsh!t craziness of Hubbard, will be confirmed.

263 theheat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:49:02am

re: #259 Jimmah

That’s merely the other side of their right to proselytise.

Unless your right to openly criticize them becomes a hate crime. In such case, you’re looking at a very one-way street.

264 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:49:44am

re: #259 Jimmah

To me there is no question of banning any of these religions. That would be absurd and unconstitutional. But there is nothing absurd or unconstitutional about those of us with some sense telling them to their faces what we think of their bullshit and warning the public about them. That’s merely the other side of their right to proselytise.

I think we can take it a step further than that. Scientology is organized crime hiding behind “religion” for protection. It’s time for RICO investigations.

265 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:50:14am

re: #261 Irish Rose

Everything that you’ve stated about the COS here is true, and I regret that I have but one upding to give.

Well I thank you for it :), I have dinged thee up in return!

266 NukeAtomrod  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:50:23am

Seriously, these guys are crazy.

Everyone knows that Molemen from the Center of the Earth were responsible for the 9/11 attacks. Only the Molemen could have wired up the World Trade Center, the Pentagon and an empty field in Pennsylvania with explosives overnight without being seen. Only the Molemen have the holographic projection technology capable of fooling all the eye-witnesses into seeing 747s collide with the buildings.

///// It’s as reasonable as any other conspiracy theory about 9/11.

267 Irish Rose  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:51:03am

re: #264 Lizard by the Bay

I think we can take it a step further than that. Scientology is organized crime hiding behind “religion” for protection. It’s time for RICO investigations.

Spot on.

268 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:52:55am

re: #259 Jimmah

To me there is no question of banning any of these religions. That would be absurd and unconstitutional. But there is nothing absurd or unconstitutional about those of us with some sense telling them to their faces what we think of their bullshit and warning the public about them. That’s merely the other side of their right to proselytise.

The serious legal and philosophical question though is “what constitutes a religion?” I do not claim to have a quick or easy answer, and I am not saying that we should make them illegal. I am saying that I can see why the German government did so, and despite my strong Constitutional convictions, I have a hard time blaming the Germans.

269 debutaunt  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:53:52am

re: #168 pre-Boomer Marine brat

BTW, re “cults”, have I ever asked you if you’ve read The Last Days Of The Late, Great State Of California, by Curt Gentry (G.P. Putnam, 1968)?

Did the whole state fall off into the ocean?

270 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:54:25am

re: #264 Lizard by the Bay

I think we can take it a step further than that. Scientology is organized crime hiding behind “religion” for protection. It’s time for RICO investigations.

The government should have done so twenty years ago. They didn’t.

I greatly fear it’s too late.

271 mikalm  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:54:46am

re: #264 Lizard by the Bay

I think we can take it a step further than that. Scientology is organized crime hiding behind “religion” for protection. It’s time for RICO investigations.

It goes beyond that. Scientology organized itself as a religion to avoid taxes. However, when the Xenu materials were leaked onto various web sites, the Slogs sued the sites and their ISPs, claiming that the documents were “trade secrets,” i.e., confidential business materials.

Tax-free religion, or for-profit business? You can’t have it both ways, Clamheads.

272 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:57:05am

re: #254 zombie

Will do!

Gentry’s a professional journalist, and a good writer. His chapter on the early days of C. Chavez in the Valley waxes poetic — ending almost with triumphant bugles.

You turn the page, and he launches into commentary on LA’s freeways. The near-brickwall comic relief will have you rolling on the floor with tears in your eyes.

273 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:57:05am

re: #271 mikalm

It goes beyond that. Scientology organized itself as a religion to avoid taxes. However, when the Xenu materials were leaked onto various web sites, the Slogs sued the sites and their ISPs, claiming that the documents were “trade secrets,” i.e., confidential business materials.

Tax-free religion, or for-profit business? You can’t have it both ways, Clamheads.

Absolutely. That goes to the core of why I do not see them as a religion or why they should enjoy the constitutional protections of one. They are a business first. They always have been. They are also a demonstrably harmful business. We have other laws to deal with that.

274 mikalm  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:57:13am

re: #270 Dianna

The government should have done so twenty years ago. They didn’t.

I greatly fear it’s too late.

Back then even the Feds were scared of the Scientologists’ well-known and ruthless harassment campaigns against their enemies. With the advent of the WWW, and the leaking of the high-level “Operating Thetan” materials into the public domain though, they’ve been a lot less able to track down and suppress critics.

275 [deleted]  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:57:54am
276 Jimmah  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:58:37am

re: #264 Lizard by the Bay

Sounds good to me. Scamming bastards.

277 mikalm  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:58:41am

re: #275 ploome hineni

:D

they make me stop worrying and feel good

Better Living Through Chemistry! :)

278 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:58:44am

re: #262 mikalm

Late to the thread again… :-(

If anyone wants to read a free, online copy of the best book ever written about ElRon and the Church of $cientology, check out Bare-Faced Messiah, by British journalist Russell Miller. All your suspicions about the origins of the cult, as well as the utter batsh!t craziness of Hubbard, will be confirmed.

Great book!

279 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:59:43am

re: #269 debutaunt

Did the whole state fall off into the ocean?

Everything west of the San Andreas, yes. A sci-fi scenario to set up the commentary setting of the book.

280 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:59:49am

re: #274 mikalm

True.

BTW - Miller’s book has a problem.

Hubbard was playing with ritual magic, not “satanism” or “black magic.” It makes me flip when I see that nonsense.

It’s why Crowley described him as an idiot.

281 mikalm  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:00:13am

re: #273 LudwigVanQuixote

Absolutely. That goes to the core of why I do not see them as a religion or why they should enjoy the constitutional protections of one. They are a business first. They always have been. They are also a demonstrably harmful business. We have other laws to deal with that.

Just as a point of contrast, the Freemasons have secret rituals and teachings. But they’ve never tried to sue the many people who’ve leaked them, or claimed that such materials constituted proprietary information.

282 mikalm  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:01:07am

re: #280 Dianna

True.

BTW - Miller’s book has a problem.

Hubbard was playing with ritual magic, not “satanism” or “black magic.” It makes me flip when I see that nonsense.

It’s why Crowley described him as an idiot.

Agreed. Did you ever read either of the bios of Hubbard’s mark, Jack Parsons?

283 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:01:27am

re: #226 Ford_Prefect

Scientologists + Creationists = Scientationists

You hoopy frood….

284 Lynn B.  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:01:31am

re: #184 zombie

The same could be said of Christian Scientism, Voudon, Hare Krishna-ism, Santeria — you name it. Religious cults often either deny normal medical treatment to practitioners, and/or hunt down apostates, and so on. The bigger question is: Are they a hazard to the public well-being? If not, we have no choice but to let these religions continue to exist. It’s in the Constitution, no matter how distasteful we find the religions.

Scientology is not like Christian Scientism, Voudon, Hare Krishna or Santeria (nor Jehovah’s Witnesses, for that matter).

Yes, they are most definitely a hazard to the public well-being.

No one here has suggested that Scientology should be banned.

Unfortunately, Scientology does not appear to share your respect for other people’s First Amendment rights.

285 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:02:01am

re: #281 mikalm

Just as a point of contrast, the Freemasons have secret rituals and teachings. But they’ve never tried to sue the many people who’ve leaked them, or claimed that such materials constituted proprietary information.

Um…well. Actually, look back to the 1828/9 disappearance and murder in upstate New York of some fellow whose name presently escapes me.

It is the catalyst for the Anti-Masonic hysteria of the 1830’s.

286 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:02:54am

re: #282 mikalm

Agreed. Did you ever read either of the bios of Hubbard’s mark, Jack Parsons?

Yes - I’ve also run across Parsons tangentially, when I was digging into the Golden Dawn and its successors.

What a story!

287 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:03:14am

re: #281 mikalm

Just as a point of contrast, the Freemasons have secret rituals and teachings. But they’ve never tried to sue the many people who’ve leaked them, or claimed that such materials constituted proprietary information.

I don’t think that the Freemasons consider themselves a religion though either. I don’t know… I do know that they don’t camp out on people’s lawns shouting at them for not liking Freemasonry. I also know that they are not in the business of bilking people out of their life savings.

288 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:04:23am

re: #281 mikalm

Just as a point of contrast, the Freemasons have secret rituals and teachings. But they’ve never tried to sue the many people who’ve leaked them, or claimed that such materials constituted proprietary information.

Probably because any truly secret society knows that suing is tantamount to admitting the information is genuine. By not acknowledging if anything out there about the Masons is real or fabricated, they maintain the secrecy of what really goes on. By suing over the Xenu docs, Scientology unzipped it’s fly to the world.

289 mikalm  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:04:30am

re: #285 Dianna

Um…well. Actually, look back to the 1828/9 disappearance and murder in upstate New York of some fellow whose name presently escapes me.

It is the catalyst for the Anti-Masonic hysteria of the 1830’s.

The William Morgan Affair.

290 Code Red 21  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:04:37am

Aren’t these the same people who believe there’s a mother ship out there?

291 mikalm  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:06:01am

re: #286 Dianna

Yes - I’ve also run across Parsons tangentially, when I was digging into the Golden Dawn and its successors.

What a story!

Yup.

(BTW, with your interests, you’ll probably love the book I’m currently writing!)

292 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:07:01am

re: #291 mikalm

Yup.

(BTW, with your interests, you’ll probably love the book I’m currently writing!)

Do tell :)

293 Jimmah  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:07:04am

re: #268 LudwigVanQuixote

The serious legal and philosophical question though is “what constitutes a religion?” I do not claim to have a quick or easy answer, and I am not saying that we should make them illegal. I am saying that I can see why the German government did so, and despite my strong Constitutional convictions, I have a hard time blaming the Germans.

I know how you feel - it’s tempting, but I think it’s best to stay with the constitution. Fraudulent practices and individuals should be stopped and prosecuted as per the law. There will always be those who can claim that for them, it’s just a religion - a ban wouldn’t fly.

294 Wendya  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:08:11am

re: #287 LudwigVanQuixote

I don’t think that the Freemasons consider themselves a religion though either.

They don’t. They’re a fraternal organization and they do require members to believe in a “Supreme Being” but they do not pretend to be a religion.

295 calcajun  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:08:48am

Surprised that the battalion of Scientology lawyers haven’t slapped Charles with an injunction yet about this thread.

Or that the Scientology trolls haven’t engaged in some “interruption or service” sabotage.

296 Gella  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:08:49am

re: #294 Wendya

They don’t. They’re a fraternal organization and they do require members to believe in a “Supreme Being” but they do not pretend to be a religion.

seen from “Stargate”?

297 Lynn B.  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:09:58am

re: #259 Jimmah

To me there is no question of banning any of these religions. That would be absurd and unconstitutional. But there is nothing absurd or unconstitutional about those of us with some sense telling them to their faces what we think of their bullshit and warning the public about them. That’s merely the other side of their right to proselytise.

You’d think. But it appears to be illegal.

Ask Keith Henson.

298 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:10:36am

re: #293 Jimmah

I know how you feel - it’s tempting, but I think it’s best to stay with the constitution. Fraudulent practices and individuals should be stopped and prosecuted as per the law. There will always be those who can claim that for them, it’s just a religion - a ban wouldn’t fly.

You are correct. I was not trying to advocate banning them. I am trying to say that after doing some serious research into them, I have concluded that they are not a religion, and that the legal protections that religions enjoy do not necessarily apply.

299 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:10:42am

re: #289 mikalm

The William Morgan Affair.

thanks - I am actually working between remarks. Morgan’s name escaped me.

For additional weirdness points, Morgan was 1) at least peripherally involved with Joseph Smith; 2) something more than peripherally involved with Oliver Crowdery; and 2) Morgan’s widow was the first of Smith’s “plural wives.”

It’s one of the by-ways and eddies of American history.

300 mikalm  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:11:24am

re: #292 LudwigVanQuixote

Do tell :)

Will do so when it’s in print! :-)

301 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:11:26am

re: #291 mikalm

Yup.

(BTW, with your interests, you’ll probably love the book I’m currently writing!)

Do tell? My nic is blue, if you’d prefer to discuss off-line.

302 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:11:49am

re: #299 Dianna

thanks - I am actually working between remarks. Morgan’s name escaped me.

For additional weirdness points, Morgan was 1) at least peripherally involved with Joseph Smith; 2) something more than peripherally involved with Oliver Crowdery; and 2) Morgan’s widow was the first of Smith’s “plural wives.”

It’s one of the by-ways and eddies of American history.

OK this is just cool.

303 mikalm  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:13:17am

re: #299 Dianna

thanks - I am actually working between remarks. Morgan’s name escaped me.

For additional weirdness points, Morgan was 1) at least peripherally involved with Joseph Smith; 2) something more than peripherally involved with Oliver Crowdery; and 2) Morgan’s widow was the first of Smith’s “plural wives.”

It’s one of the by-ways and eddies of American history.

Joseph Smith was a Freemason, and ripped off a lot of Masonic terminology, symbolism and ritual for use in Mormonism. Among other things, his dying words are very significant to any Brother.

304 Lynn B.  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:16:29am

re: #293 Jimmah

I know how you feel - it’s tempting, but I think it’s best to stay with the constitution. Fraudulent practices and individuals should be stopped and prosecuted as per the law. There will always be those who can claim that for them, it’s just a religion - a ban wouldn’t fly.

The question is (hypothetically speaking, of course) how far a “business” can go while still claiming to be a “religion” and claiming the Constitutional and legislative benefits of that status. Somewhere, there’s a line, and I suspect that Scientology is very close to it. The question is … which side is it on? And how far might it continue to push before it’s successfully challenged for having stepped over?

305 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:16:48am

re: #302 LudwigVanQuixote

OK this is just cool.

Isn’t it, though?

I’ve been digging into the Foxx sisters (Spiritualism), Joseph Smith (Mormonism), Mary Baker Eddy (Christian Science), and Ellen Gould White (Seventh Day Adventism), and the connections to the “Burnt Over” districts.

The overlaps, connections and drifts of persons is just…stunning. There’s this deep, subterranean stream of occult/religious/magical interest in American history that has more influence than I’d used to think.

306 NukeAtomrod  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:16:48am

re: #238 OldLineTexan

Scientology + Actor = Actor - Money

simplify by subtracting Actor from both sides of the equation

Scientology = - Money

Further proofs:

Obama = - Money

Therefore

Scientology = Obama

////////////////////////////////////////

Hmm…..

Hookers + Booze = - Money

Therefore

Obama = Hookers + Booze

And

Obama - Hookers = Booze

Obama - Booze = Hookers

///////////// Sounds like a scandal to me!

307 Buck  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:16:54am

It could be worse… they could be blaming us…

308 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:17:54am

re: #303 mikalm

Joseph Smith was a Freemason, and ripped off a lot of Masonic terminology, symbolism and ritual for use in Mormonism. Among other things, his dying words are very significant to any Brother.

And they were?… do stop being such a tease!

309 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:17:55am

re: #303 mikalm

Joseph Smith was a Freemason, and ripped off a lot of Masonic terminology, symbolism and ritual for use in Mormonism. Among other things, his dying words are very significant to any Brother.

I have read that, during the attack by the mob that killed him, Smith used the Grand Mason’s Sign of Distress.

310 mikalm  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:18:20am

re: #305 Dianna

Isn’t it, though?

I’ve been digging into the Foxx sisters (Spiritualism), Joseph Smith (Mormonism), Mary Baker Eddy (Christian Science), and Ellen Gould White (Seventh Day Adventism), and the connections to the “Burnt Over” districts.

The overlaps, connections and drifts of persons is just…stunning. There’s this deep, subterranean stream of occult/religious/magical interest in American history that has more influence than I’d used to think.

Damn, woman — we need to get together to compare notes.

311 mikalm  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:18:53am

re: #308 LudwigVanQuixote

And they were?… do stop being such a tease!

Sorry — secret stuff! Try Googling it.

312 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:19:32am

re: #310 mikalm

Damn, woman — we need to get together to compare notes.

I’d love to.

Just remember, I’m finishing a novel (nothing to do with any of these subjects - and people wonder why I seem awfully scattered and dilletantish!).

313 bolivar  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:19:58am

The truly creepy thing about this “religion” is that all practicers that try to get out of it seem to become impoverished or - DEAD!

On another note, psychiatry is by and large hokum. Oh, there is the occasional fix that is legitimate but, the “discovery” of modern psychiatry was the dawn of the insanity plea ad nauseum. This defense at its heart is no defense. The mind and body are either capable and guilty of a crime or they are not - no equivocating about whether they were in the right frame of mind or that their mother should have breast fed them or some other such malarkey. Pseudo-science at its worst. Don’t tell me about “miracle” cures that some quacks come up with. To say they can cure “psychopaths” is ludicrous and just plain wrong. They can no more “cure” somebody of a killing urge than I can. Perhaps a genetic anomaly or defect is to blame - not sure but, to say that questioning and cajoling and “talking things out” will make one iota of difference is just silly.

And yes, L Ron is a dead moron and all practitioners of this baloney are morons too. Sorry Tom and Johnnie, used to think much better of you before you joined up with this bunch of losers.

314 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:20:09am

re: #311 mikalm

Sorry — secret stuff! Try Googling it.

I fart in your general direction!

//////

315 ErnieG  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:20:53am

re: #309 Dianna

I have read that, during the attack by the mob that killed him, Smith used the Grand Mason’s Sign of Distress.

And rightly so.

316 Wendya  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:21:59am

re: #308 LudwigVanQuixote

And they were?… do stop being such a tease!

Oh, Lord, my God, is there no hope for a widow’s son?

317 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:23:29am

re: #311 mikalm

Sorry — secret stuff! Try Googling it.

Also, I do have a taste for this sort of behind the scenes history. At least give me some places to start looking.

318 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:24:21am

What I read somewhere was that Hubbard was once negatively evaluated by a U.S. military psychiatrist. His ego couldn’t take it, so he placed shrinks at the lowest level of his personal hell.

As for his bat-shit crazy, there is another “Incident” in his history of the universe that says it all. I’m talking about the “Obscene Dog”:

The video is crappy but the words are in Hubbard’s own voice.

Then there’s this, for those who’d like a more extended exposure to this malevolent charlatan:

319 Jimmah  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:24:36am

re: #297 Lynn B.

You’d think. But it appears to be illegal.

Ask Keith Henson.

The jury verdict of the trial resulted in Henson being convicted of one of the three charges: “interfering with a religion.”

Wow. I didn’t know about that. That is quite simply a fucking outrage. I bet others including the likes of CAIR, were pleased at that outcome as well.

320 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:24:56am

re: #308 LudwigVanQuixote

And they were?… do stop being such a tease!

“OH, LORD, MY GOD, is there no help for the widow’s son?”

321 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:25:00am

re: #316 Wendya

Oh, Lord, my God, is there no hope for a widow’s son?

Really? I’ve poked around enough of this stuff to know some of the significance of that. That is fascinating. How do we know those were his last words?

322 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:26:40am

OK, who here loves Robert Anston Wilson?

323 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:27:10am

re: #316 Wendya

I thought it was help, not hope?

324 Mauser  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:27:14am

re: #154 zombie

So far, to my knowledge, Scientologists have not committed any violent terrorist acts. And they have essentially no effect on public policy. And so, I let them continue on their merry way to madness.

Loony or not, they DO have a few good points about the Psychological profession. There DO seem to be links between anti-depressants and school shootings and other acts of violence, and they do seem to have wormed their way into the legal system such that the pronouncements of a psychologist who has never even talked to you can be used in a court of law to put you away for a long time.

And let us NEVER forgive the RUIN that the institution of Child Psychologists wrought on Saturday Morning cartoons. For that alone, I’d side with the Scientologists.

And when it comes to Scientologist celebrities, they seem to do alright, never check into Betty Ford, have tons of money. Britney Spears could probably do well with a few sessions hooked up to an e-meter….

325 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:29:05am

re: #321 LudwigVanQuixote

Really? I’ve poked around enough of this stuff to know some of the significance of that. That is fascinating. How do we know those were his last words?

It’s cited as from The Confessions of John D. Lee; reprint of the 1880 edition, page 153 at this link.

326 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:29:43am

re: #325 Dianna

It’s cited as from The Confessions of John D. Lee; reprint of the 1880 edition, page 153 at this link.

Thank you!

327 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:31:22am

re: #322 LudwigVanQuixote

OK, who here loves Robert Anston Wilson?

Not me, but that’s because I don’t get satire.

328 Wendya  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:31:44am

re: #321 LudwigVanQuixote

Really? I’ve poked around enough of this stuff to know some of the significance of that. That is fascinating. How do we know those were his last words?

Accounts differ. No one really knows what went down that day except the dead.

It should also be noted that the phrase is purportedly the “distress call” of a Mason. That may or may not be true. I doubt you’ll find a Mason willing to tell you.

An interesting connection regarding the murder/suicide of Lupoe family in California. Lupoe’s suicide note had that phrase written at the end.

[Link: www.nbclosangeles.com…]

329 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:32:42am

re: #327 Dianna


Not me, but that’s because I don’t get satire.

It was Illuminatus and Schroedingers Cat that introduced me to all of this sort of stuff.

330 Wendya  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:34:23am

re: #323 Dianna

I thought it was help, not hope?

I’ve seen it written both ways. I have no idea which, if either are accurate.

331 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:36:03am

re: #330 Wendya

I’ve seen it written both ways. I have no idea which, if either are accurate.

Huh. I’ll go with “help”, just because I think it makes a bit more sense in what I know about Masonic ritual.

332 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:36:13am

When I got into studying Medieval history. I cam across the Templers and references to the Masons and the Priory of Sion. I asked one of my favorite professors what he made of it all. He said that there are two problems.

The first is that we as historians have an awful lot of dots to connect, just enough to be very tantalizing, but we do not have enough dots to make the picture. There are simply too many ways we could connect them.

He said that the second problem is that successful secret societies are secret. It makes it hard to get a clear answer.

333 Jimmah  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:38:23am

re: #298 LudwigVanQuixote

re: #304 Lynn B.

Yes, I can see where you guys are coming from on this now. This was an offshoot of one of the links that Lynne posted:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

I knew they used tactics like intimidation, didn’t realise it was a documented official policy of the organisation, with the leader’s signature on it.

334 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:40:01am

re: #333 Jimmah

re: #304 Lynn B.

Yes, I can see where you guys are coming from on this now. This was an offshoot of one of the links that Lynne posted:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

I knew they used tactics like intimidation, didn’t realise it was a documented official policy of the organisation, with the leader’s signature on it.

Keep looking, they get progressively more malevolent the more you dig.

335 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:40:53am

re: #332 LudwigVanQuixote

When I got into studying Medieval history. I cam across the Templers and references to the Masons and the Priory of Sion. I asked one of my favorite professors what he made of it all. He said that there are two problems.

The first is that we as historians have an awful lot of dots to connect, just enough to be very tantalizing, but we do not have enough dots to make the picture. There are simply too many ways we could connect them.

He said that the second problem is that successful secret societies are secret. It makes it hard to get a clear answer.

Oh, my.

Just to keep you from getting lost in thickets of pseudo-history, the Priory of Zion is a fraud. Pierre Plantard owned up before he died.

The Masons may have something to do with the Templars. But…it’s ambiguous. So don’t hare off after it to enthusiastically.

336 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:42:33am

re: #333 Jimmah

re: #304 Lynn B.

Yes, I can see where you guys are coming from on this now. This was an offshoot of one of the links that Lynne posted:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org…]

I knew they used tactics like intimidation, didn’t realise it was a documented official policy of the organisation, with the leader’s signature on it.

No one can follow every little cranky organization out there. You’re doing very well by starting from a skeptical, inquiring frame of mind.

337 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:42:47am

re: #335 Dianna

Oh, my.

Just to keep you from getting lost in thickets of pseudo-history, the Priory of Zion is a fraud. Pierre Plantard owned up before he died.

The Masons may have something to do with the Templars. But…it’s ambiguous. So don’t hare off after it to enthusiastically.

I’m not and I am not consumed with the Priory of Sion. What you said goes into my prof’s point. The real secret societies are secret and while there are lot’s of stories, verification is difficult.

338 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:43:41am

re: #337 LudwigVanQuixote

Yep.

Anyway, I think we’re two threads behind.

Shall we ascend?

339 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:44:23am

I guess I was liking this one :)

340 lurking faith  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:44:36am

re: #194 brookly red

I have know a few scientology types, they were all young people who had recently inherited large sums of money… coincidence?


They used to hang out at lunchtime and after work in a major metropolitan downtown area where I worked for a few years, specifically targeting nicely dressed people under 30. Anybody not fitting the profile would be politely brushed off and told it was a youth survey, or some such.

That alone was enough to tell me it’s a cult, not a religion.

Here’s what I’d like to know: Does anybody know of any ex-Scientologists?

341 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:45:44am

re: #339 LudwigVanQuixote

Me, too. But I think the discussion has moved on, and I need to read, while sorting ancient files for destruction, rather than typing about crankery, pseudo-history, pseudo-science and pseudo-religion.

342 Ornery Ballsack  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:47:19am

re: #324 Mauser

Seriously? First a quick primer about the “psychological profession”.
1) Psychologists do not prescribe medications. Psychiatrists, who are M.D.s, prescribe medications. There are several types of psychologists (PhD, Pssts, etc.) and many more types of psychotherapists (Macs, Mses, etc.) none of whom prescribe medications.
2) Yes, there are links between anti-depressants, antipsychotics, and other psychoactive medications with school shootings. Namely, the people that were taken for involuntary treatment by a psychiatrist (Cho Sun-Hui “the V-Tech” shooter, the NIU school shooter, and Eric Harris & Dylan Kliebold “the Columbine HS kids”) were exhibiting violent behavior and signs/symptoms of untreated mental illness prior to the initiation of treatment with psychoactive medications.
3) Anti-depressants have been linked to an increase in suicidal thoughts (the “black box” warning), however they have not been linked to an increase in suicidal behavior, let alone violent behavior, or school shootings in particular.

343 Dianna  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:47:23am

re: #340 lurking faith

Not personally. Sorry.

344 robdouth  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:47:44am

Behind every good man is a good woman.

Behind every bad man is a good psychiatrist.

345 Ornery Ballsack  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:49:28am

Sorry, should read in #1 should read: Psychologists (PhDs, PsyDs, etc.) and for psychotherapists (LMHCs, LCSWs, etc.).

346 Jimmah  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:50:47am

re: #336 Dianna

No one can follow every little cranky organization out there. You’re doing very well by starting from a skeptical, inquiring frame of mind.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve known for a long time how full of idiotic shit that ‘frooty little cult’ is, I just hadn’t picked up on the criminal aspect of their organisation so much. Getting there now though:)

347 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:51:48am

Question: should we allow the scientologists to teach THEIR creation myth as empirical fact in public high school science class? Or should we tell ALL religious dogmas to ‘clam up’ as far as empirical science instruction is concerned?

348 debutaunt  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:52:33am

re: #279 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Everything west of the San Andreas, yes. A sci-fi scenario to set up the commentary setting of the book.

That book was loaded with information about the value of California in the 1960’s.

349 Jimmah  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:53:30am

re: #347 Salamantis

Nice one:)

350 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 12:06:35pm

re: #264 Lizard by the Bay

I think we can take it a step further than that. Scientology is organized crime hiding behind “religion” for protection. It’s time for RICO investigations.

I have pondered before on this site whether the Disco Institute might itself be susceptible to RICO prosecution, under the selfsame rationale.

351 Lizard by the Bay  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 12:12:33pm

re: #350 Salamantis

I have pondered before on this site whether the Disco Institute might itself be susceptible to RICO prosecution, under the selfsame rationale.

But what is the Discovery Institute’s criminal behavior? Being stupid isn’t a crime, as much as I sometimes feel it should be.

352 Salamantis  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 12:28:37pm

re: #351 Lizard by the Bay

But what is the Discovery Institute’s criminal behavior? Being stupid isn’t a crime, as much as I sometimes feel it should be.

Fraud and bunco. They ride into town on their sympathetic preacher horses, who tell their congregations that they’re gonna counter the anti-Chritian plague of godless darwinist atheism in the schools. They get the congregations to push their legislators or school boards to pass laws allowing for the inclusion of ID in public schools. Then the money starts to flow.

The IDers rake in moolah from selling biased ‘textbooks’ and creationist-slanted ‘supplementary materials’, both through profits from their subsidiary presses that print them, and from author royalties, since most of this crapola is written by Disco Institute members.

Then the inevitable cort case comes. Disco Dewdes rake in more moolah, raking in ‘expert’ witness (nearly typed witless) fees for their court testimony.

The court inevitably roles against the law, on 1st Amendment grounds. The state or school district has lost fines and court costs, witness fees, and the cost of those ruled-unusable ‘textbooks’ and other ‘supplementary materials’. The teacers and the students and ultimately the taxpayers suffer the consequences.

And the smarmy scamsters laugh all the way to the bank, being liable for none of the costs. They then pack up their pious creationist carpetbags, and take their rainmaker roadshow to the next batch of naive and devout marks.

353 redheadredstate  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 12:31:14pm

re: #324 Mauser

Loony or not, they DO have a few good points about the Psychological profession. There DO seem to be links between anti-depressants and school shootings and other acts of violence, and they do seem to have wormed their way into the legal system such that the pronouncements of a psychologist who has never even talked to you can be used in a court of law to put you away for a long time.

And let us NEVER forgive the RUIN that the institution of Child Psychologists wrought on Saturday Morning cartoons. For that alone, I’d side with the Scientologists.

And when it comes to Scientologist celebrities, they seem to do alright, never check into Betty Ford, have tons of money. Britney Spears could probably do well with a few sessions hooked up to an e-meter….

How bout it if Britney et al in Hollywood stop living narcissistic lives and stuffing blow up their noses and there would be no need for an e-meter? Just a thought.

354 dudewithaphone  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 12:51:40pm

You know, I’ve seen some of the techniques scientology uses to indoctrinate their members. A lot of it is pretty intense hypnosis, and it’s no surprise seeing as how Hubbard was into himself, by all accounts. In any case, his whole operation relies heavily on people’s delusions, something that psychology/psychiatry try to treat. It seems like a pretty smart move to start hating on psychologists early on - he might have been a bastard, but you can’t say he was stupid. Get rid of the psychologists, and help make sure your minions are brainwashed forever…

355 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 1:15:54pm

re: #346 Jimmah

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve known for a long time how full of idiotic shit that ‘frooty little cult’ is, I just hadn’t picked up on the criminal aspect of their organisation so much. Getting there now though:)

Absolutely, They were under my radar until they became a sort of house research project. Once you start digging, it gets ugly quickly.

356 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 1:17:34pm

re: #347 Salamantis

Question: should we allow the scientologists to teach THEIR creation myth as empirical fact in public high school science class? Or should we tell ALL religious dogmas to ‘clam up’ as far as empirical science instruction is concerned?

Hmmm… it seems Jefferson and some other guys with names like Washington and Adams already decided that one…

357 Suzette  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 1:20:10pm

re: #355 LudwigVanQuixote


They were under my radar too….until I started digging too. It was in my opinion as in yours very ugly. They have bankrupted people, harassed, sued, etc.
/not a good group….once you check in, you can’t check out.

358 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 1:25:50pm

re: #319 Jimmah

Wow. I didn’t know about that. That is quite simply a fucking outrage. I bet others including the likes of CAIR, were pleased at that outcome as well.


Yes they are rather relentless.

359 Achilles Tang  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 2:24:00pm

Looks like I missed lots of goodies by working all day.

I’ve always thought that Scientology and the Discovery Institute had a lot in common. Same type of character for a start. Both promote “science fiction” perspectives of the universe, and both relieve certain types of people of their money.

. The DI wants their books in schools and Scientology sets up front companies to print “educational” books that have their core principles, whatever they are, and then sell them cheap to gullible school systems.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they discussed working together at some point, their goals overlap.

Of course Charles can expect to hear from their lawyers if he mistakenly reveals any of their trade secrets, or just pisses them off enough.

360 jantjepietje  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 3:08:59pm

Since I’ve heard them blame the holocaust on psychiatry you really need to do better than this to shock me.

361 winston06  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 4:26:59pm

Scientology equals stupidity…

362 MagnaniomousCoward  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 5:06:08pm
363 Steffan  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 6:34:53pm

The story I heard was that Scientology is the result of a bet between L. Ron Hubbard and John Campbell.

Whether that makes the average Scientologist the mark in a massive con game remains to be seen. I just wish Tom Cruise would STFU and STFD.

364 MagnaniomousCoward  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 7:42:10pm

I don’t know. Sometimes a con man can start believing in his own con. L. Ron Hubbard’s perception of reality was breaking down already in his youth, which can be seen from his diary notes. That might have helped him in his fiction writing, but it might have been unhealthy for himself.

Jay Lifton, expert on thougt reform and cults, explains how some cult gurus become both con man and true believer.

Scientology was no question run to get money for Hubbard back in the day he was alive, but the purpose now, and where the money is going, is a lot more nebolous these days I think.

365 MagnaniomousCoward  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:02:22pm

re: #227 johnnyreb

They have even been banned in Germany

They have not been banned in Germany, but they are under surveillance along with radical islamists, neo-nazis and other anti-constitutional and totalitarian groups.

re: #249 LudwigVanQuixote

Scientology is illegal there.


Not so.

they don’t believe in Jesus, so church always struck me as a bit odd


Religious cloaking. It is not a church.

Trade Winds, the ship the L Ron lived on to evade paying taxes.


The Freewinds was not aquired while Hubbard was running the show. His ships were called Enchanter, Athena (Avon River) and Apollo (Royal Scotman).

366 Pupdawg  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:46:54am

I wonder if US Scientologists block-voted for Obama?

Let’s see if they have things in common with Barack:

Scientologists actively control their image through intimidation such as legal action against their critics.

They take on the aura of crusaders in that they apparently take no prisoners in the religious dogma battle.

They, at least from all indications, tend to be ‘of’, ‘from’ and/or ‘about’ money.

Possessions, status, position are obvious goals and presumably required for ‘membership.’

Entertainers, Hollywood types seem to flock there.

Members appear to share an aversion to reality and/or are apparently uninfluenced by facts or truth.

They tend to be Fraternal-esque, shrouded in secrecy.

They are draped or more accurately cloaked in mystery evidently by intent.

They have demonstrated that they will use the MSM for their chosen propaganda when warranted.

They will always tout intellectualism and mental superiority whether based in reality or not.

Materialism seems to be a cornerstone of their belief.

Take, take, take give little or nothing. Think about it. What have Scientologists given to others beyond their own flock? Entertainment? Nope, that neither feeds, clothes nor warms the needy.

Religion then becomes a vehicle for personal advancement up the organization.

Hope and change seem to be required as their members must move forward and up from level to levels within the structure.

Ex-members are shunned and sued if they openly criticize the religion. The ‘church’ rules by draconian tactics from what has been published.

Wow, they are a lot like the One, I guess.

Bet they voted for the One in the high 90% range!

367 Nemesis6  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 10:33:49am

You can’t “shun” $cientology and hope for it to disappear, because $cientology rakes in money every day through front-groups here in Europe, in America, and everywhere in the world. They’re tax exempt after infiltrating (Google: Operation Snow White) the American government and extorting money from their followers.

The reason they’re against psychiatry is actually quite indicative of how insane they are. They believe that 75 million years ago, an evil galactic overlord named Xenu controlled a vast federation of planets known as the Galactic Confederation. Xenu wanted to solve the over-population problem in this federation by using psychiatrists call in billions of beings, and upon entering the door or whatever, they would be paralyzed, and frozen, then taken to Earth, which was known as “Teegeeack”. They were dumped in and around volcanoes, which were then blown up with hydrogen bombs. So the souls went up into the air, but the evil overlord xenu had prepared for this. Not wanting them to return and reincarnate on their home planets, he had deployed giant soul-suckers in the sky that would collect the souls, and then take them to cinemas where they were imprinted with 3d images of religion. These souls, or “body thetans” as they’re called in Scientology, are the source of all our misery today. Have you ever come across one of the “stress test” tables where they have that machine with two cans attached? They won’t tell you, but that thing is used to dispel these alien souls from your body.

That’s the core of Scientology. It’s called OT3, and you have to pay 377.000 dollars to find out.

Scientology: The Thriving Cult of Greed and Power:
[Link: www.time.com…]

368 Nemesis6  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 10:34:17am

Oh, and we’re anonymous. We do not forgive, we do not forget. Expect us.


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