Jump to bottom

185 comments
1 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:52:05pm

Now I liked the BBS Connections series since it explored the flow of science through history. This proves to be just as interesting.

2 winston06  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:53:56pm

Why do some posts on Jihad Watch sound so angry?

3 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:55:52pm

re: #2 winston06

Why do some posts on Jihad Watch sound so angry?

Exposing the truth about certain people and their associations tends to make some uncomfortable and uneasy.

4 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:57:32pm

So now Robert Spencer has actual ties to genocidal figures. Now there should be no more doubt about him.

5 winston06  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:58:40pm

re: #3 FurryOldGuyJeans

Last time I was on Jihad Watch, they had an angry & hateful piece on Denish D'Souza. So disgusted I was that I couldn't finish the whole piece.

6 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:58:46pm

re: #4 Dark_Falcon

So now Robert Spencer has actual ties to genocidal figures. Now there should be no more doubt about him.

Some will never accept the truth of the ties.

7 zombie  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 9:59:53pm

Uh-oh: a Medaura thread!

This should start some fireworks.

OK, let's get those fireworks ignited:

The question is: Could such a person be real? How could someone so very young, so very attractive, and who learned English as a second language as an adult in a backwater country, be so fluent, so intellectual, so comprehensive in knowledge, so conversant in everything about history and Western culture? Is "Kejda Gjermani" a group name for sixteen professors in a neocon thinktank -- a sort of political Betty Crocker?

/let the conspiracy theories begin...

8 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:00:14pm

This is not just some dots being connected, this is a whole bloody roadmap.

9 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:01:57pm

re: #6 FurryOldGuyJeans

Some will never accept the truth of the ties.

Spencer himself, for example.

10 winston06  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:05:41pm

re: #9 Fat Jolly Penguin

self denial?

11 zombie  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:08:06pm

Boy, no fireworks at all. Not even over my purposely inflammatory comment!

Everyone is in storpor due to the Obama hypno-gaze.

12 pink freud  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:09:31pm

re: #11 zombie

Boy, no fireworks at all. Not even over my purposely inflammatory comment!

Everyone is in storpor due to the Obama hypno-gaze.

I *did* run and grab the popcorn.

...waiting quietly

13 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:10:10pm

re: #11 zombie

Boy, no fireworks at all. Not even over my purposely inflammatory comment!

Everyone is in storpor due to the Obama hypno-gaze.

Just give it time. We've got an anti-Spencer thread and an Evolution thread up right now. The bait has been laid, the troll are bound to come out. And when they do we will feast upon them!

14 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:10:25pm

re: #11 zombie

Boy, no fireworks at all. Not even over my purposely inflammatory comment!

Everyone is in storpor due to the Obama hypno-gaze.

Guess he used the Xanthian hypnogourd on all the viewers of his speech.

15 BlueCanuck  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:11:02pm

re: #11 zombie

Zzzzzzzz What? Oh sorry, was dreaming about some more hope and change.

Actually it's a very good article documenting the connections. Makes me wonder what will happen in the future. All our allies are not. Remember the enemy of my enemy is his enemy. No more no less.

16 pink freud  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:11:26pm

re: #11 zombie

Boy, no fireworks at all. Not even over my purposely inflammatory comment!

Everyone is in storpor due to the Obama hypno-gaze.

Zombie, how're you doing these days? It's always nice to see you in the threads. Your encyclopedic brain never ceases to amaze me.

17 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:11:40pm

re: #7 zombie

Uh-oh: a Medaura thread!

This should start some fireworks.

OK, let's get those fireworks ignited:

The question is: Could such a person be real? How could someone so very young, so very attractive, and who learned English as a second language as an adult in a backwater country, be so fluent, so intellectual, so comprehensive in knowledge, so conversant in everything about history and Western culture? Is "Kejda Gjermani" a group name for sixteen professors in a neocon thinktank -- a sort of political Betty Crocker?

/let the conspiracy theories begin...

LOL.

"I" must be a golem too: When "I" was 22, "I" went to Germany, having had only a summer immersion course and a semester or two of the language at college. Two years later "I" was speaking, reading and writing not only High German, but Swabian dialect as well, and regularly fooling people into thinking "I" was real. "I" have letters to the editor, papers, translations and poems et cetera to "prove" it.

"I" think "Kejda" is obviously a social construct, a figment, a sinister plot and a conspiracy. It's as plain as the nose on "my" wrinkled old Roman face.

18 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:13:23pm

re: #11 zombie

Boy, no fireworks at all. Not even over my purposely inflammatory comment!

Everyone is in storpor due to the Obama hypno-gaze.

"I" like storpor: a combination of stupor and torpor.

See "my" confirmation of "your" theory above.

19 zombie  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:13:51pm

re: #12 pink freud

I *did* run and grab the popcorn.

...waiting quietly

Maybe the pace of this thread will be like one of those old Zatoichi movies:

It starts slow, very slow, but by the end everyone on screen has been thoroughly julienned, limbs cleanly snicker-snacked and silently airborne, faces in shock as their intestines lay steaming in the dust.

20 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:15:08pm

It's a great article.

21 pink freud  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:15:45pm

re: #19 zombie

Perfect visual!

/julienned? did you mean "slap-chopped?

/forget it, relatively current cultural reference to someone named Vince and his nuts

22 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:15:56pm

re: #19 zombie

Maybe the pace of this thread will be like one of those old Zatoichi movies:

It starts slow, very slow, but by the end everyone on screen has been thoroughly julienned, limbs cleanly snicker-snacked and silently airborne, faces in shock as their intestines lay steaming in the dust.

Now who can not like a Blind Swordsman movie, eh? ;)

23 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:16:58pm

re: #21 pink freud

Perfect visual!

/julienned? did you mean "slap-chopped?

/forget it, relatively current cultural reference to someone named Vince and his nuts

There is also the Baby Cart series if you want spurting blood and filleted bad guys.

24 rawmuse  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:17:27pm

OT, The San Francisco Chronicle has to sell, or go under.
Women and minorities will be disproportionately affected, like everything else they report.

25 winston06  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:17:37pm

SORRY - I AM BACK

Just saw this photo ... Dutch MP Geert Wilders in solidarity with separatist Iranians of al-Ahwaz (bad guys)

[Link: www.khandaniha.eu...]

the story is in Persian language but the whole story rotates around a separatist being tried in Iran and he showed up to support them. Not a good move!

26 zombie  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:18:18pm

re: #16 pink freud

Zombie, how're you doing these days? It's always nice to see you in the threads. Your encyclopedic brain never ceases to amaze me.

Busy busy busy.

Interesting that my brain is perceived as "encyclopedic." I've always thought of it as more like The Collected Works of Edward Lear.

27 traderjoe9  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:18:18pm

OT: I'm gonna be a citizen! Woohoo!

28 realwest  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:20:30pm

re: #25 winston06
Sorry Winston but you're return caused me to return!
What do you mean when you say "separatist Iranians of al-Ahwaz (bad guys)"
Asking cause I never heard of the separatist Iranians of al-Ahwaz.

29 pink freud  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:20:39pm

re: #23 FurryOldGuyJeans

Why thank you, FOGJ! :-)

30 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:21:03pm

P.S. If anyone wants a little musical interlude, see "my" post #95 on the antepenultimate thread. Claudio Monteverdi, first time on LGF! Goes down great while waiting for crypto-fascist heads to explode.

31 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:21:32pm

re: #27 traderjoe9

OT: I'm gonna be a citizen! Woohoo!

Congratulations! Our nation needs more citizens like you!

32 winston06  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:21:56pm

re: #28 realwest

These are Arabic speaking Iranian citizens trying to gain independence. They are supported by Saudis and had the support of Saddam before his demise.

33 pink freud  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:22:38pm

re: #27 traderjoe9

Congratulations, traderjoe! That's wonderful! ....America, I presume?

34 realwest  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:22:41pm

re: #27 traderjoe9
Hey Traderjoe9 - of which country? Israel? Is it dual citizenship with the USA?

35 winston06  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:22:41pm

re: #28 realwest

[Link: www.google.com...]

36 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:22:54pm

re: #27 traderjoe9

OT: I'm gonna be a citizen! Woohoo!

That's great!

37 zombie  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:23:18pm

re: #18 Cato the Elder

"I" like storpor: a combination of stupor and torpor.

Someone had to coin it. Might as well be me.

See "my" confirmation of "your" theory above.

Innnteresting.

38 BlueCanuck  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:23:35pm

re: #23 FurryOldGuyJeans

There is also the Baby Cart series if you want spurting blood and filleted bad guys.

You mean "Lone Wolf and Cub"?

39 realwest  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:23:56pm

re: #32 winston06
Ah, thank you very kindly and please excuse my ignorance (once again!).

40 winston06  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:24:12pm

re: #39 realwest

don't mention it

41 rawmuse  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:24:15pm

re: #30 Cato the Elder

Very nice. I have it playing on my superb sound system, recently upgraded with nice Polk Audio sub woofie (not needed on this recording).

42 winston06  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:24:33pm

okay, time to go. Tomorrow is gonna be hectic. bye every one!

43 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:25:17pm

re: #15 BlueCanuck

[...] Remember the enemy of my enemy is his enemy.

"I" am so stealing that!

44 pink freud  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:25:34pm

re: #42 winston06

'Nite, Winston. Sleep tight!

45 realwest  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:26:02pm

Yep, I'm outta here too - hope I get the chance to see you all down the road!

46 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:26:31pm

re: #42 winston06

'Nite, private. ;-)

47 pink freud  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:26:50pm

re: #45 realwest

Goodnight RW! Sweet dreams, stay warm!

48 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:27:20pm

re: #45 realwest

Goodnight, Realwest. See ya tomorrow.

49 BlueCanuck  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:27:52pm

re: #43 Cato the Elder

"I" am so stealing that!

Go ahead. I stole it already. :)

Search for 7 Rules of Highly Effective Pirates.

50 Dark_Falcon  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:28:04pm

I'm getting tired and I'm going to turn in. Till tomorrow, all.

51 Gort  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:28:06pm

The monitor is clean now (Thanks zombie), but eyes blurry.
G'night all.

52 BlueCanuck  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:28:09pm

Night rw, weet dreams.

53 Syrah  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:28:27pm

OT:

Nothing like having a hit and run out your front door, complete with hysterical a meth-head crankster, cops and k-9 units running through your yard to completely ruin a evening of too much drink and a messianic Obama speech.

Reality can be so frigging weird!

54 TheMatrix31  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:29:28pm

re: #53 Syrah

Reality can be so frigging weird!

Of course it can. Barack Hussein Obama is President of the United States of America.

55 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:29:59pm

re: #29 pink freud

Why thank you, FOGJ! :-)

Samurai movies are the Japanese form of American cowboy/western movies.

The Baby Cart series is known by purists as the Lone Wolf and Cub series, of which Kozure Ôkami: Kowokashi udekashi tsukamatsuru (Lone Wolf and Cub: Sword of Vengeance) is the first.

Zatoichi is a very long running movie series, which you have to start at the beginning, Zatôichi monogatari (The Tale of Zatoichi), to appreciate the artistry.

56 rawmuse  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:30:09pm

I watched a National Geographic vid about Pisarro tonight, ("Guns, Germs and Steel").

Alas, the world simply is not a place where genocidal maniacs can do their worst without discovery. This Serb fellow was a real piece of work. I'll bet he thought he would never be stopped.

57 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:30:43pm

re: #38 BlueCanuck

You mean "Lone Wolf and Cub"?


[Video]

You must be a purist if you know the convergence of titles. ;)

58 traderjoe9  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:31:56pm

re: #33 pink freud

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

re: #34 realwest

Thanks!

Yes - I'll become a citizen of the United States, and I'll retain my Israeli citizenship.

59 rawmuse  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:33:14pm

re: #55 FurryOldGuyJeans

Then you know about the Quentin Tarantino Japanese collaborations.

60 BlueCanuck  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:33:30pm

re: #57 FurryOldGuyJeans

Not a purist. I have just read some of the Manga, and watched some of the movies. Including the one I linked. I have always known them by that title.

61 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:34:09pm

re: #59 rawmuse

Then you know about the Quentin Tarantino Japanese collaborations.

*BARF*

62 rawmuse  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:34:56pm

re: #61 FurryOldGuyJeans

LOL! So bad, they are almost entertaining.

63 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:36:14pm

re: #60 BlueCanuck

Not a purist. I have just read some of the Manga, and watched some of the movies. Including the one I linked. I have always known them by that title.

Most people know the Baby Cart/Lone Wolf and Cub movies from the weirdly dubbed in English version, Shogun Assassin. The original Japanese ones are so much better.

64 Jack Burton  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:37:35pm

Is that Serbian asshat actually holding up a real baby tiger in that photo?

65 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:38:38pm

I didn't know Mr. Spencer's family came from Turkey. Interesting.

66 SanFranciscoZionist  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:38:58pm

re: #64 ArchangelMichael

Is that Serbian asshat actually holding up a real baby tiger in that photo?

I think so. Poor thing, I doubt they had a zoo to donate it to when it got to be too big for photo ops.

67 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:39:36pm

re: #62 rawmuse

LOL! So bad, they are almost entertaining.

Why not just have Spike Lee do a remake of Shichinin no samurai (Seven Samurai) in Japanese period costume and American accents? *TRIPLE BARF*

68 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:39:46pm

re: #64 ArchangelMichael

I think so because the tail looks out of focus.

69 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:40:18pm
It’s interesting that despite the rabidly racist and anti-Semitic environment he is steeped in, Srdja Trifkovic takes time to tailor Belgrade propaganda specifically for Israel, as exemplified by his articles “Kosovo: A Threat to Israel’s Survival,” “U.S. Kosovo Policy is Bad for Israel” (coauthored with James Jatras), etc. This is yet another example of how anti-Semitic agitators are learning to pay lip-service to Israel’s interests for the sake of expediency when they think they can co-opt Jewish sympathy for their hatred of Muslims.


This is becoming a very popular pastime among Euro-fascist groups like VB, FPO, etc... BP is starting to lean this way now too.

70 lostlakehiker  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:40:21pm

Excerpt from news article

It seems at least one great English-speaking former British colony has caught on that civil trials and rights are not appropriate for terrorists.

With the filing of formal charges, however, the Indian judicial system must now grapple with the question of Kasab's defence in the light of a refusal by lawyers to represent him.

India's constitution provides for the right to legal aid and representation, as well as a "fair, just and equitable procedure" in court for any defendant, regardless of nationality.

But the honorary secretary of the Bombay Bar Association, M.P. Rao, told AFP in December that the unprecedented nature of the attacks meant normal rules should not apply.

"He has waged war on the country. If he's waged war, the basic requirement of giving him a fair trial doesn't really become justified," he said.

71 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:42:15pm

re: #7 zombie

She's truly brilliant. There's a lot of good information and very well researched but she tends to be a little on the verbose side.

72 Jack Burton  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:42:27pm

re: #54 TheMatrix31

Reality is so unreal.

73 BlueCanuck  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:42:43pm

re: #63 FurryOldGuyJeans

I prefer my movies subtitled. You seem to get more out of it I find.

74 pat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:43:38pm

Could get the gist but could not get the page to stop loading.

75 Steffan  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:44:14pm

re: #58 traderjoe9

re: #31 Dark_Falcon

re: #34 realwest

Thanks!

Yes - I'll become a citizen of the United States, and I'll retain my Israeli citizenship.

Outstanding. Welcome.

Keep in mind, though, that Immigration doesn't tell SSA when someone becomes a citizen. Once you have the certificate or the passport in hand, hie yourself down to your local Social Security office to have your citizenship status changed. Once you have done that, you will never have to do it again.

OT: Reflecting on my misspent youth, it occurred to me that the most polite people I have ever met in my life were cadets at the Los Angeles Police Academy. Buzz cuts, sweatsuits, and the most deferential attitudes I have ever seen.

I know some of the local cops socially -- I work with their wives. They are, without exception, nice people. I wouldn't want them mad at me, but I freely admit that I'm highly unlikely to do anything that would draw their professional attention. :)

76 Steffan  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:45:42pm

re: #67 FurryOldGuyJeans

Why not just have Spike Lee do a remake of Shichinin no samurai (Seven Samurai) in Japanese period costume and American accents? *TRIPLE BARF*

Don't go there.

Besides, wasn't there already an American remake of that, with Yul Brynner?

77 pat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:45:45pm

Watched History Channel on the speed of light. Terrible depiction. Completely wrong. Words were Ok, but the depiction will destroy all meaning.

78 Gus  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:46:00pm

These are alarming connections indeed. If you want to see the roots of the Serbian aggression you might want to read about the Chetniks.

79 Killgore Trout  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:46:25pm

Her first comment is from Paleo-nut/Buchanan supporter Justin Raimondo . Well, she's annoying the right people.

80 pat  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:46:35pm

Ahh. Another Kurosawa fan.

81 BlueCanuck  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:47:25pm

re: #76 Steffan

Yes, the "Magnificent Seven". A western.

82 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:48:08pm

re: #75 Steffan

"OT: Reflecting on my misspent youth, it occurred to me that the most polite people I have ever met in my life were cadets at the Los Angeles Police Academy. Buzz cuts, sweatsuits, and the most deferential attitudes I have ever seen."

Maybe you met my daughter. ;-) She was a cadet in 1997. Not an officer any longer but she is a victim's advocate for the DA's office.

83 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:48:17pm

re: #73 BlueCanuck

I prefer my movies subtitled. You seem to get more out of it I find.

Original language and subtitled is the only way to go, but I won't pass up a good dubbed DVD if they have also have the original soundtrack. "Das Boot" comes to mind in that respect.

Watching the original Gojira movie is study in butchery when you compare it to Godzilla, King of the Monsters.

84 Randall Gross  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:48:23pm

I got up to let Kasey out and saw this, Kejda certainly did a good job. Hold on to your hats if the other side gets too nasty, because this is certainly not all of the connections.

85 Steffan  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:48:33pm

re: #70 lostlakehiker

If they follow the Geneva Conventions to the letter, what he deserves is summary execution. No trial, no appeal.

86 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:50:03pm

re: #76 Steffan

Don't go there.

Besides, wasn't there already an American remake of that, with Yul Brynner?

American rehash of the plot versus a remake, as such, The Magnificent Seven.

87 Steffan  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:50:33pm

re: #82 Pvt Bin Jammin

"OT: Reflecting on my misspent youth, it occurred to me that the most polite people I have ever met in my life were cadets at the Los Angeles Police Academy. Buzz cuts, sweatsuits, and the most deferential attitudes I have ever seen."

Maybe you met my daughter. ;-) She was a cadet in 1997. Not an officer any longer but she is a victim's advocate for the DA's office.

'Fraid not, this was 15 years earlier. Somewhere around 1982 or '83.

88 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:51:29pm

re: #84 Thanos

She most certainly did a good job. This could get very interesting, indeed.

89 Killian Bundy  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:52:22pm

re: #64 ArchangelMichael

Is that Serbian asshat actually holding up a real baby tiger in that photo?

Arkan? Yeah, that was the mascot for his government sanctioned criminal paramilitary.

/he ended up being gunned down in a Serbian hotel lobby, no one knows who killed him, wink, wink, nudge nudge

90 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:53:10pm

re: #87 Steffan

They're all pretty darn nice over there., though she ran across a few cocky ones.

91 FurryOldGuyJeans  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:53:18pm

re: #84 Thanos

I got up to let Kasey out and saw this, Kejda certainly did a good job. Hold on to your hats if the other side gets too nasty, because this is certainly not all of the connections.

She turned one huge stone, that's for sure. The creepy-crawlies will not like being exposed to the full light of day.

92 UncleSam  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 10:58:03pm

re: #11 zombie

Boy, no fireworks at all. Not even over my purposely inflammatory comment!

Everyone is in storpor due to the Obama hypno-gaze.

What hypno-gaze?
I saw nothing.
Excuse me as I return gazing into the blissful swirling whirpool of our Dear Leader's omniscient orbs...
Feel the Obamic ecstasy of The One...

93 UncleSam  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:03:40pm

Whoops! Probably should have been "return to gazing, etc.

94 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:05:39pm

Would someone please tell me I am not living in the "twilight zone".

95 UncleSam  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:07:44pm

re: #94 Pvt Bin Jammin

Would someone please tell me I am not living in the "twilight zone".

You're not.
The "Twilight Zone" is much more rational.

96 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:11:08pm

re: #95 UncleSam

By jove, I think you're right.LOL

97 MarineMomSue  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:12:46pm

re: #21 pink freud

Perfect visual!

/julienned? did you mean "slap-chopped?

/forget it, relatively current cultural reference to someone named Vince and his nuts

slap chopped! LOL 2nd time tonight I've had to clean my monitor.
(Used my new ShamWow)

98 BlueCanuck  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:14:10pm

Slow night. I wonder if everyone else is still commenting on several threads down.

99 Killian Bundy  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:14:21pm

Well, so far, the DOW futures are holding steady at around -20.

/so, apparently Obama didn't do any market damage last night

100 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:14:30pm

re: #23 FurryOldGuyJeans

There is also the Baby Cart series if you want spurting blood and filleted bad guys.

And then there is the best "doomed ronin" scene ever filmed:

101 UncleSam  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:15:03pm

re: #96 Pvt Bin Jammin

By jove, I think you're right.LOL

Thanks.
The truth is out there, and it's even weirder than anyone can imagine.

(X-Files reference with a slight addendum.)

102 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:15:17pm

re: #98 BlueCanuck

Slow night. I wonder if everyone else is still commenting on several threads down.

That's what I was wondering. Guess I should turn on the spy.

103 freetoken  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:15:55pm

re: #98 BlueCanuck

Yes, slow night... however, the other threads aren't that active... perhaps everyone is out partying (Mardi Gras?)

104 lostlakehiker  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:18:24pm

That's a good careful article on Trifkovic. A character assassination of the man, but clean, because it's all out of his own mouth.

105 Mirage  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:19:21pm

re: #97 MarineMomSue

slap chopped! LOL 2nd time tonight I've had to clean my monitor.
(Used my new ShamWow)

Does that thing really work like on TV? (Sorry, had to ask) :)

106 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:20:41pm

re: #99 Killian Bundy

Well, so far, the DOW futures are holding steady at around -20.

/so, apparently Obama didn't do any market damage last night

Gold's down about $45 and ounce, too....not really sure if 0bama can take credit for that or it's just profit-taking.

107 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:21:42pm

re: #101 UncleSam

Thanks.
The truth is out there, and it's even weirder than anyone can imagine.

(X-Files reference with a slight addendum.)

'Tis weird.

I wasn't a X-files fan because I just don't watch much television but I could see myself buying the collection at some point.

108 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:24:11pm

re: #103 freetoken

Sitting here with a martini but still wishing I would have asked the gal I saw at the bank with all her beads just where she was going to party.

109 UncleSam  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:27:19pm

re: #105 Mirage

Does that thing really work like on TV? (Sorry, had to ask) :)

I don't know about the Slap Chop thingy, but I've bought stuff (mainly tools) from TV gadget promoters, and they were at least as good as, if not better than, advertised.
It goes to show something, but I'm not sure what....

110 Fenway_Nation  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:28:41pm

re: #109 UncleSam

Kinda telling that instead of getting some of the 'As Seen on TV' stuff from my relatives for Christmas, I got the 'Just Like As Seen on TV' stuff.

111 BlueCanuck  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:30:27pm
112 SurferDoc  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:31:42pm

Wow, "Seven Samurai" and "The Magnificent Seven" in one thread. This must be home.

"Generosity, that was my first mistake."

113 UncleSam  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:35:20pm

re: #107 Pvt Bin Jammin

'Tis weird.

I wasn't a X-files fan because I just don't watch much television but I could see myself buying the collection at some point.

The X-Files was my favorite program when it was on.
Some of the later episodes, after David Duchovny (Mulder) left were kind of weak, but it was a great series, with lots of humor and really intricate and thought-provoking plot thread and content.

Of course, it was all fiction.

Or was it?

Heh heh....

114 redc1c4  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:36:18pm

re: #108 Pvt Bin Jammin

Sitting here with a martini but still wishing I would have asked the gal I saw at the bank with all her beads just where she was going to party.

didn't know you swung from that side of the plate, but it's good to know.

/white smoke!

115 UncleSam  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:40:36pm

re: #110 Fenway_Nation

Kinda telling that instead of getting some of the 'As Seen on TV' stuff from my relatives for Christmas, I got the 'Just Like As Seen on TV' stuff.

You poor bastard...
But I say that in an affectionate and not at all literal, as I don't actually know your parental heritage, way.

116 Pvt Bin Jammin  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:41:16pm

re: #114 redc1c4

Just waking up at the keyboard. LOL See ya on the dead thread.

117 Sharmuta  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:56:28pm

Well done, Kejda. Birds of a feather flock together, they say. Seems true.

118 Daryl Herbert  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:56:46pm

Poor Robert Spencer.

Obviously, reading the Koran is bad for your mental health.

119 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:58:30pm

re: #71 Killgore Trout

She's truly brilliant. There's a lot of good information and very well researched but she tends to be a little on the verbose side.

She is not verbose. She quotes extensively, and links even more so, because the mosaic doesn't begin to make sense without the patient accretion of detail. If she left out the quotes, or shortened them, there would be cries of "fabrication" and "lies" and "mendacious Medaura" all over. Not that there won't be anyway, but anyone who cares to can here follow the narrative to its inevitable conclusion.

And I understand she's just getting warmed up.

Crucial examples:

Anyone impressed with Spencer’s credentials and achievements should be in awe of Trifkovic’s: after all, the latter holds a PhD as opposed to a mere Master’s degree, has been a visiting scholar at no less than the Hoover Institution (on the State Department’s dime), and has also authored bestselling books on Islam. A counter-jihadist par excellence, wouldn’t you say?

Next:

Among the slew of anti-Muslim screeds published in recent years, one of the more prominent was The Sword of the Prophet by Serge Trifkovic. Despite Trifokovic’s dubious background as a former spokesman for Bosnian Serb leader Radovan Karadzic (although he also spoke against Slobodan Milsoevic), he was embraced by American conservatives — paleo and neo — as yet another expert who dared to tell “the truth” about Muslims and Islam. Here he is on Frontpage, discoursing on the subject with fellow polemicists Robert Spencer and Walid Shoebat. Sites such as Jihad Watch and pundits such as Don Feder toasted his efforts; Brian Mitchell of Investor’s Business Daily gushed over him as “a European historian of broad learning, sound philosophy and keen political insight.”

Then:

The most fascinating thing about Biljana Plavsic, whom Trifkovic admittedly served as a consultant, is she’s not a fictional character! The descriptions below do not refer to a comic book or horror film caricature. She did indeed live and rule in Serb-occupied Bosnia:

Biljana Plavšic is a former Bosnian Serb politician and university professor currently serving a sentence in Sweden as a result of a conviction by the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia (ICTY) for war crimes. She was the president of Republika Srpska for two years from 1996 through 1998.

Besides being the highest-ranking Bosnian Serb politician to be sentenced [by the ICTY], she was also known for her fiery nationalist statements during the War in Bosnia, against the Serbian Democratic Party (SDS), and, later, her remorse for the crimes against humanity she admitted to have been responsible for as a high-level politician.

She was infamous for some of her comments during the war, and for her April 1992 appearance in Bijeljina with Željko Ražnatovic, aka Arkan. Serbian President Slobodan Miloševic’s support for the “Vance Owen Plan” caused her to refuse to shake his hand, as she denounced him as a traitor to the Serbian nation.

[cont.]

120 Cato the Elder  Tue, Feb 24, 2009 11:58:48pm

[cont.]

And:

As a curious aside, speaking of Christendom, the director and producer of the documentary “Islam: What the West Needs to Know“, starring both Robert Spencer and Srdja Trifkovic, is a contributing author to Chronicles. In a recent article he prophesies that Barack Obama is the Antichrist, whose presidency heralds the end of our times.

Apologies Bitch-slap to anyone here who agrees about Obama being Τὸ Μεγα Θηρίον.

This same Gregory M. Davis also contributes to Spencer’s JihadWatch, where he has authored an entire column, Islam 101. Back to Chronicles: A magazine that would publish insane screeds of the Obama-is-the-Antichrist caliber can be safely assumed to carry more craziness on board, and it does. On the magazine’s website the League of the South is prominently blog-rolled. In fact, Thomas Fleming, Chronicles’ current editor-in-chief, is a founder and former board member of the neo-Confederate League. Pat Buchanan also has a regular column, and the magazine has strongly supported his presidential bids. The magazine’s attitude toward Jews and Israel can be gleaned from a simple Boolean search of their archives.

Follow the bouncing ball.

121 theheat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 12:00:35am

Nice photo of Buchanan in the article, too. My, that bastard does get around.

122 Render  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 3:37:31am

Nice of Raimondo to once again confirm what was already known about him.

Very nice work by Kejda clearing away the fog, now we can see the tip of the iceberg clearly.

When you start uncovering Serbian Neo-Confederate ministers you know you've hit the depths of some kind of collective and collected insanity.

The sound of crickets so far from the other side of the equation are rather telling, aren't they?

FIRE
RELOAD
FIRE,
R

123 Bloodnok  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 4:37:51am

Nice work, Kejda. Very well researched!

124 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 4:38:42am
125 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:33:34am

re: #71 Killgore Trout

She's truly brilliant. There's a lot of good information and very well researched but she tends to be a little on the verbose side.

You have to be because this has been going on a very long time. This is just the tiniest corner of the web. Would it surprise you to know that the book you saw Filip DeWinter leafing through at that neo-nazi fair was written by Alain Benoist, another contributor at Chronicles magazine?

126 Pygmalienation  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:29:04am

re: #123 Bloodnok

Nice work, Kejda. Very well researched!

Seconded!

Here is an excerpt from a note I sent to a relative to whom I had previously recommended Spencer's work...

Dear ------,
Well, I'm out on a job as usual (thankfully!, considering the economic situation...). Lately, I have become aware of something that may ( or should ) be of interest to you. I know I have recommended some of Robert Spencer's writings to you in the past. I certainly have read much of his material... Now, I have some major reservations about his associations that I thought I should bring to your attention. It turns out that he has been currying favor with some Neo-Nazi groups in Europe and possibly here at home--much to MANY honest peoples dismay, I might add. A very big problem with this is that it tars all people opposed to the Jihad with these associations and provides a weapon to the Islamists against those countering the Jihad (ie. "See, they're just motivated by racism!..." , etc.). These associations will cause honest, well meaning people who are unaware of the dangers of the Jihad to be dismissive about it if there are elements of racism and fascism involved Below are some helpful links to get started looking into this issue:

[Link: www.kejda.net...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

These links are a good start and lead to more articles on this issue. I highly recommend giving them a look.

Personally, I was VERY disappointed to see this development as I have found his writings to be very informative in the past. This is NOT to say that all the material he has written is wrong by any means-- reality is reality.

The bottom line is that we can't fight one form of Fascism by accepting another. I'm against Neo-Nazi's as much as I'm against Islamo-Nazi's. Both movements would seek to establish Totalitarian regimes--robbing us of our freedoms and crushing the human spirit. I can abide neither.
[snip]

Thanks again, Kedja and Charles for the yeoman efforts in this regard.

127 Zimriel  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:53:46am

I'm impressed.

When one writes an essay exploring personal connections, it can come off as he said / she said, or paranoid fear mongering. (Bat Yeor's "Eurabia" is an example in the genre.) Maybe the connections exist. But do they explain anything?

In the case of Trifkovic, I'm now convinced that his associations and past have run him out of mainstream punditry. Spencer has been acting as Trifkovic's CAIR for many years now. Those of us who've liked certain of Spencer's books (esp. "The Truth About Muhammad") have been hoping that he would move away from these demagogues. But it's now clear that he won't, because he's one of them.

Kedja has improved her writing style as well. I know that sounds backhanded; but she's gotten wordy when she got angry (she's young), and that's been a problem for her readers. This time she's let her evidence speak for itself.

128 medaura18586  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:56:15am

Thanks for the link, Charles! I love the cryptic introduction too.

Meanwhile, I see the following comment on my blog:


“About Kejda - She was born and raised in Tirana, Albania” identifies the bias of author. Nuff said.

But Spencer's descent from what is now Turkey, from where his grandparents were supposedly kicked out, could not possibly indicate any bias or insincerity about joining the "Reconquest of Anatolia" Facebook group.

Sure...

129 Zimriel  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:58:23am

re: #124 ploome hineni

lol...you mean you believe everything people say about themselves online?

Medusa is very adroit at figuring out how to suck up to certain people

the purpose of jihad is to win/jihad of the tongue includes dividing the opposition-the 'enemy'

ploome:

Do you believe that Medaura is a jihadist plant, sent to divide LGF from Robert Spencer?

Posed a different way, do you believe that LGF ought to reunite with Spencer, and by extension join conferences with Trifkovic, Buchanan, Raimondo and other European nationalist highlights?

130 medaura18586  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:59:19am

re: #127 Zimriel

Kejda (the j precedes the d) has learned to take a chill pill when things get annoying.

It does wonders for one's writing style.

That, and copy editing other people's writings.

131 Pygmalienation  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:02:30am

re: #126 Pygmalienation

Ooops, sorry I misspelled your name... Meant to say Kejda NOT Kedja
My bad

132 Know Your Enemy  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:03:53am

Wait--now the UN has legitimacy?

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Spencer is my friend.

133 Zimriel  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:09:28am

re: #28 realwest

Sorry Winston but you're return caused me to return!
What do you mean when you say "separatist Iranians of al-Ahwaz (bad guys)"
Asking cause I never heard of the separatist Iranians of al-Ahwaz.

It's also called Ahvaz, Khuzistan, Beth Huzaye and Arabistan. It means "Sugar Land".

I know the Khuzistan because in ~655 AD, the Christians there wrote a chronicle in Syriac about what was going on up to 642 AD. Alphonse Mingana calls it the "Guidi Chronicle". Thus far the best analysis of its content is "The conquest of Khuzistan: a historiographical reassessment" by Chase Robinson, Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies, 2004, vol. 67 (1). Primary sources on these events have a price above rubies.

134 Zimriel  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:18:06am

winston06, but are Ahwazi separatists, today, bad guys? I see no reason to oppose Ahwazi independence from the mullahs in Tehran. Ahwazis are not Persian and have the principle of self-determination on their side. Besides, if they were independent they would weaken the Iranians.

135 J.S.  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:32:04am

I've read books and articles by Srdja Trifkovic. Personally, I thought it was/is pretty clear where Srdja Trifkovic stands with respect to Islam. (for my taste, his views are too extreme...)

136 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:51:58am

re: #132 Know Your Enemy

Et tu, JihadWatch? That's the site that brought me here originally: "What's this 'site created by Little Green Footballs' thing?"

Haven't been over there in a while, tho...

Perhaps you should visit and really read the comments there, then think about how many of the "solutions" proposed would be constitutional in the US, and how many bear striking resemblance to statements made in the thirties in Germany. Perhaps you should look into how many echo sentiments expoused by Neo fascists like Maurice Bardeche and Alain Benoist.

137 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:57:39am

I found the Building Democracy pdf to most enlightening, and I loved how that "meaningless symbol" popped up again.

138 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:04:04am

re: #124 ploome hineni

Jerk.

139 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:07:20am

re: #132 Know Your Enemy

Wait--now the UN has legitimacy?

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Spencer is my friend.

"If you lie down with Nazis, you'll get up with Totenköpfe."

The enemy of your enemy is his enemy. Nothing more, nothing less.

140 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:07:45am

Great post, Kejda.

141 medaura18586  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:19:49am

re: #137 Sharmuta

I found the Building Democracy pdf to most enlightening, and I loved how that "meaningless symbol" popped up again.

The Building Democracy source is great. I emailed that to Charles and others separately, before my article was done, because it's a great resource in and by itself. All neo-fascist groups seem interconnected across countries and continents. The consistency is uncanny...

142 medaura18586  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:21:24am

re: #132 Know Your Enemy

Wait--now the UN has legitimacy?

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. Spencer is my friend.

Yeah, the UN personnel faked their own kidnapping by Bosnian Serbs... The conspiracy thickens...

143 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:22:21am

re: #141 medaura18586

Oh- it's most appreciated! I've added it to an important buchanan file. Thanks.

144 Irish Rose  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:32:44am

And of course, the usual attempt to deflect and minimize valid criticism with the usual charges of libel... from Spencer over at JW:

While hate bloggers continue to defame anti-jihadists with false and libelous charges of connections with or allegiance to white supremacism, neofascism, and neo-Nazism, back in the real world

Sorry Robert, this kind of false martrydom doesn't work any more. Too many facts have come to light, and your bullying behaviors have clearly illustrated to many readers what kind of man you really are.

People are starting to see through you, Robert, and they don't like what they see.

You have nobody to blame except yourself.

145 Know Your Enemy  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:38:57am

re: #136 Thanos

Perhaps you should visit and really read the comments there, then think about how many of the "solutions" proposed would be constitutional in the US, and how many bear striking resemblance to statements made in the thirties in Germany. Perhaps you should look into how many echo sentiments expoused by Neo fascists like Maurice Bardeche and Alain Benoist.


I'll check it out.

146 guftafs  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:43:50am

Dynamite stuff. Thanks, Medaura.

147 Bloodnok  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:45:04am

re: #144 Irish Rose

And of course, the usual attempt to deflect and minimize valid criticism with the usual charges of libel... from Spencer over at JW:


Sorry Robert, this kind of false martrydom doesn't work any more. Too many facts have come to light, and your bullying behaviors have clearly illustrated to many readers what kind of man you really are.

People are starting to see through you, Robert, and they don't like what they see.

You have nobody to blame except yourself.

The roaches are scurrying. Thanks for turning on the light, Kejda.

148 guftafs  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:45:21am

For me, the totality of the evidence against Spencer disqualifies everything he has written on Islam. He may have valid points, but given his duplicitousness with regards to his associations and his anti-Islamic agenda, you can't tell when he's telling the truth or when his twisting it to serve his agenda.

149 MPH  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 10:13:55am

re: #137 Sharmuta

I found the Building Democracy pdf to most enlightening, and I loved how that "meaningless symbol" popped up again.

[Link: picasaweb.google.com...]

[Link: picasaweb.google.com...]

150 medaura18586  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 10:28:24am

re: #149 MPH

[Link: picasaweb.google.com...]

[Link: picasaweb.google.com...]

Evolution!

151 Jimmah  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 10:49:43am

LOL : comment no1 is some whining by Justin Retardo. That's a good sign already.

Just reading the article now...

152 Jimmah  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 12:13:53pm

Excellent piece, Medaura. You clearly and concisely demolished Trifkovic's revisionist accounts of his role in the Bosnian conflict, leaving no room for doubt. In my opinion the Serbian connections are the most damning aspect of Spencers profile, showing his enthusiasm for embracing not just neo-nazi sympathisers, but actual ethnic cleansing fascists whose boots are still wet from the skulls they've kicked in.

153 Jimmah  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 12:27:23pm

re: #124 ploome hineni

Ok, you can now be dismissed a conspiracy nut of the sort you normally have to go to LGF2 to see. And btw, it's not lost on me that some of your deleted comments here on LGF are of a kindred spirit to comments by one of the Serbian individuals - Biljana Plavsic - featured in Kejda's piece:

“That’s true [i.e. that the Bosnian Muslims were originally Serbs]. But it was genetically deformed material that embraced Islam. And now, of course, with each successive generation this gene simply becomes concentrated. It gets worse and worse, it simply expresses itself and dictates their style of thinking and behaving, which is rooted in their genes…” (Svet, Novi Sad, 6 September 1993.)

154 Josephine  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 2:34:30pm

Based on her (and her sockpuppets') interactions with me on this website, I wouldn't trust medaura as a source for anything. They assign motive and use accusations of guilt-by-association without proof, all to put their intended target on the defensive. It is not investigative journalism.

155 Hollowpoint  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 2:42:26pm

Haven't visited JW in a long time; decided to pop over to see what the reaction was. Didn't see it, but there was an article about Wahabbis in Bosnia- a whole 3% of the population.

The comments there are disgusting, more so than I remember when I used to visit the site regularly (over a year ago). Numerous comments defending or outright praising Milosevic, complete with a half-dozen "thumbs up" supporters.

I understand that comments don't necessarily reflect the view of the blog owner (Spenser does make reference to attrocities committed by the Serbs), but when comments defending genocide and those who perpetrated them are not only allowed but cheered, something is seriously wrong.

156 Jimmah  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 3:04:36pm

re: #154 Josephine

'Scuse me, but you've got some paranoid rubbish on your face there. Charles bans sockpuppets that are being used dishonestly. Are you accusing Charles of being part of the conspiracy in letting Medaura post under the names of several different people? How many sockpuppets are we talking about here? Care to name them?

Incidentally "It's all just guilt by association" is EXACTLY the same excuse that the euro-fascist sympathizers use against Charles in his work exposing the unsavoury connections of Spencer and others in the 'anti-jihad movement'. No need to ask where you really stand on that, I guess.

157 MPH  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 3:09:45pm

re: #154 Josephine

Based on her (and her sockpuppets') interactions with me on this website, I wouldn't trust medaura as a source for anything. They assign motive and use accusations of guilt-by-association without proof, all to put their intended target on the defensive. It is not investigative journalism.


I've seen a number of negative reactions to Kejda's piece (in comments here and on her blog and comments on JW). But I have yet to see a single person who is upset by this article discuss even one ounce of the substance of it all. The main question I'd like to ask these people -- Given all this evidence and quotes straight from the horses mouth, is Serge Trifkovic someone you support? Robert Spencer's support of this person is clear. And if you think Trifkovic is misrepresented, how so?

All the easier to respond with foolishness like:


“Great people talk about ideas; ordinary people talk about things; small-minded people talk about other people.” This is pathetic.
"Great people talk about ideas; ordinary people talk about things; small-minded people talk about other people." This is pathetic.


---

"About Kejda - She was born and raised in Tirana, Albania” identifies the bias of author. Nuff said.


---

This is just guilt-by-association claptrap.


---


A lot of energy went into this opus but it is utterly unpersuasive and one must wonder about the motivation of the writer. Robert Spencer is only enhanced in my opinion after reading this ridiculous piece. I’m frankly sorry I wasted my time looking for some telling criticism.
158 Josephine  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 3:21:24pm

re: #156 Jimmah

LOL. You do realize you've just proven my point, don't you?

159 Josephine  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 3:32:53pm

re: #157 MPH

I'm not upset by it. She is not a credible source. I don't believe a word she says.

Her first "opus" was so poorly written and lacking in fact that I refuse to waste one moment of time reading the second one and debunking her bunk.

160 mph  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 4:08:19pm

re: #159 Josephine

Her first "opus" was so poorly written and lacking in fact that I refuse to waste one moment of time reading the second one and debunking her bunk.

Give me one piece of substance to back up such a boisterous claim. Just one, and I'll be satisfied. Your blanket dismissal (seemingly out of personal malice in this case) is too typical of the Spencer-sycophants.

161 medaura18586  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 4:11:44pm

re: #156 Jimmah

For some reason, she is convinced that A. van Hilten and I are the same person, hence the accusations of sock-puppetry. Of course, the claim has no basis other than in her own head, but why should that stop her, right?

162 Jimmah  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 4:42:32pm

re: #161 medaura18586

Yes, so much for her standards of proof crapola. I might have a look at some of those old threads shortly.

163 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:50:34pm

re: #159 Josephine

It makes me sad to see this from you. I really thought you were more even handed than this- you're not even going to read and verify the sources for yourself. Instead, you're shooting the messenger. I think perhaps you've allowed your personal respect for robert's scholarly work cloud your judgment. Honestly- I think it's part of the schtick- dazzle them with brilliance and they won't look any deeper. This has made you biased against anyone who is now skeptical of robert's motives. And that's too bad- it's as if Charles has done nothing over the years to earn enough respect from you for you to at least look and consider what he's pointing out to those of us who read this blog. Likewise, it's as if none of robert's petty and immature reactions don't count against him, in your eyes. Since you admit you're not even going to look at the claim, your defense of robert here is meaningless and hollow- just like all his other defenses. Pity you've allowed him to make a tool of you. Best of luck to you, Josephine. Enjoy your new friends.

164 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:00:34pm

Hi there Winston - I see you're having a down-ding fest. Dinging down the same posts I'm up-dinging. Care to have a talk?

165 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:04:33pm

re: #164 Cato the Elder

Very petty, imo.

166 Render  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:21:42pm

Would it help if I confirmed independently seeing much (if not all) of the information contained in Medaura's latest post on the subject - before Medaura posted it?

I've had a copy of the Building Democracy pdf for several weeks now and had e-mailed it to a couple of very prominent bloggers prior to Medaura's posting.

I can also confirm, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that the troll known as A Van Hilten is not Medaura nor a sock puppet of hers or her husbands. I'm positive, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that Charles can also confirm this.

SEEN
IT
ALL,
R

167 Jimmah  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:07:17pm

re: #164 Cato the Elder

I have a funny feeling I might have dissed a certain someone he likes. Oh what a shame/

168 Jimmah  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:10:47pm

re: #164 Cato the Elder

And Sharmuta too - also criticised that person and got the same reaction.

169 Josephine  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:27:42pm

re: #163 Sharmuta

Sharmuta, you are jumping to conclusions about me and making sweeping, emotion-based statements.

Medaura lost credibility with me long before the Spencer thing came to a head. I am not biased against anyone's skepticism and I reserve the right to maintain my own skepticism.

Just because I disagree with Charles about this particular issue does not mean that I don't respect him, his viewpoints or his work: it just means I disagree with him on this particular issue. I don't agree with my husband on every issue.

Neither Charles nor Robert is a personal friend of mine. Saying "enjoy your new friends" is meaningless. It's like flouncing away from me when I've said something in a conversation that you don't like. I'd much rather maintain my intellectual freedom to come to my own conclusions.

I am incapable of judging the motives of Charles or Robert: I can only judge them by their words, just as I judge medaura on her words. I lost respect for her a long time ago and that has nothing to do with Charles or Robert. As I said in my first comment, I judge her by my interactions with her here. That's all I can do. I don't consider her to be a reliable source and that's down to her and her own words.

Robert has not made me his "tool" -- that's just silly. I'm disagreeing with a position: this is not about loyalty.

170 Josephine  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:30:32pm

re: #160 mph

Again proving my point. Making an assumption about my motives and calling me a name.

171 Josephine  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:33:50pm

re: #166 Render

Re. your first point: I'm not sure. It would depend on the original source(s).

Re. your second point: Perhaps a better term, given #160, would be medaura-sycophants?

(And to be very clear, as with the sockpuppet term, Charles is not included in that term.)

172 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:27:39pm

re: #169 Josephine

You're right- I'm allowing my disappointment to speak too much for me.

I have watched the situation long enough to see to my satisfaction that Mr. Spencer is not a man of his word by his own words and actions, while conversely I've found Mr. Johnson's integrity to be consistent by the same standard. So yes, I find it disappointing that others struggle to see this as I do. So perhaps it is a failing on my part in having high expectations in that others share my ideals, and therefore this is on me and not you. I value integrity and assume others do too. I feel this has certainly been an enlightening experience. Thank you for your help.

173 Render  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 5:55:27am

From the far Left:

[Link: www.empoweredbuilder.net...]

From the far Right:

[Link: www.russiablog.org...]

Charles, you may want to take a close look at this second link. Specifically at the header.

===

Josephine: My sources, like Kejda's, are multiple and from all sides of the political spectrum. With the proper search terms anything can be found on-line.

Jatros and Trifkovic are both completely compromised by their direct and paid connections to Serbian war criminals. War criminals of the very real and very convicted ethnic genocide type. Connections that neither man has successfully denied publicly.

The on-going and continuous connections of those two to the WN movement as well as the other hate Israel/Jews groups and individuals within the US is a firm indicator that something is seriously wrong with these people.

By allying with people like these Spencer has made a mockery and a hypocrisy of his own claims of self moderation.

===

I'm beginning to suspect that these connections may be the true source of Daniel Pipes politically correct and very polite disagreement with Spencer.

MUTTERING
DEATH,
R

174 Josephine  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 6:03:49am

re: #172 Sharmuta

It is apparent that you are emotionally invested in this and I am not.

You know nothing about my personal integrity or how I value or judge the integrity of others, therefore your statements in this regard are meaningless.

There is a difference between disagreeing about an issue and making value judgments about a person's character, especially when you don't know the person. Guilt- or shame-based messages are a waste of time: they only reveal a form of manipulation to which I am resistant.

But I understand what you're really doing: you're making it clear to Charles that you are denouncing me.

175 medaura18586  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 7:00:59am

re: #173 Render

Render,

Those are excellent articles: I had linked to the first one on the James Jatras piece, and had also independently found the other, but am waiting to use it on my upcoming piece (yes, there is one!). The heading has something to do with my choice regarding which article to use it for, which can give you a preview of what's coming.

As for A. Van Hilten, I know you had your disagreements with him and he was known for being abrasive (something I myself have been more than occasionally guilty of) but I would never go as far as to call him a troll. Quite the contrary. In any case, I have never met the guy; in fact, we live on different continents, and Josephine's reversal here from "sockpuppets" to "sycophants" is laughable.

Stay posted for my next installment: I'm curious whether you've already independently seen the rest of my research because I've been digging pretty deep.

176 medaura18586  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 7:18:46am

re: #173 Render

From the far Left:

[Link: www.empoweredbuilder.net...]

I also wouldn't categorize that source as far Left.

Shirley Cloyes DioGuardi is Balkan Affairs Adviser to the Albanian American Civic League

She is also the wife of Joseph J. DioGuardi, a former Republican Representative.

177 medaura18586  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 7:19:03am
178 Jimmah  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 8:08:37am

Josephine - so Medaura lost her credibility with you when you decided on this sockpuppet theory? But everyone else realises how nonsensical that accusation is. Guess how much credibility conspiracy theorists have around here?

And given the seriousness of the case against Spencer at this point you'd think it would be appropriate to let 'personal' issues go by the wayside and just have a good long look at the evidence she has presented. If you had a shred of the detached rationality you claim, you'd have done that already.

179 medaura18586  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 8:21:19am

re: #178 Jimmah

Her having "lost all respect" for me, for whatever reasons, has got nothing to do with my ability to conduct research and present its findings. This is classical "ad hominem."

An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin: "argument to the man", "argument against the man") consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to a characteristic or belief of the source making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim. The process of proving or disproving the claim is thereby subverted, and the argumentum ad hominem works to change the subject.

re: #170 Josephine

Again proving my point. Making an assumption about my motives and calling me a name.

And what name did he call you, or are you hearing things now?

180 Render  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 8:24:32am

re: #175 medaura18586

Both articles are very informative, but I'm afraid I've mistakenly defamed the author of the first one. She is not Leftist, far or otherwise, quite the opposite, her husband is a Republican politician from New York. She and her husband are however, very much pro-Albanian. I sincerely regret the error...

Regarding the second link, my apologies for upstaging your work. Until Charles posted the link I was unaware you had dug this deep into the subject. There is a pretty fair chance I've seen much of what you're working on for the next installment, but there is also a pretty fair chance that you're going to uncover (or already know) things I haven't read yet. Balkan politics is one of my least favorite European political subjects and unlike you, I don't have any connections to or in the region.

Regarding the Haverford College links written by Professor Michael Sells...

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

Although he is obviously far from an unbiased source and as such his information requires a secondary confirmation, I have yet to find any place that his reporting on this subject has been wrong or overly partial.

===

Regarding Van Hilten. I know where he lives, right down to the street address and phone number. I know where you live, to the same level of detail. I really am that good...

Van Hiltens antics here led me to the belief that he is both anti-Semitic (carefully veiled by his uber-hate for all religions) and a pathological misogynist. Given the circumstances of his banning I see little reason to amend that opinion or the label of troll.

You were indeed very abrasive in your earliest installments regarding Spencer. Fortunately for you, the truth overcomes the abrasiveness of brash youth. We all live and learn from our mistakes...

EACH AND
EVERY DAY,
R

181 Render  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 8:43:15am

re: #176 medaura18586

re: #177 medaura18586

I see you type faster than I do as well.

YOUTH IS
WASTED ON
THE YOUNG,
R

182 medaura18586  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 10:51:42am

re: #180 Render

About A. van Hilten, let's agree to disagree: I know from first hand experience that corrosive rhetoric can easily lead to attributions of malice or bigotry even where none is present. In any case, talking about the banned is not particularly classy so I shall say no more on the subject.

But if you're such a good private detective, perhaps you should work for us: [Link: www.peekyou.com...]

Believe it or not, I have also been very detached from the Balkans' conflicts since I moved to North America. I had a Serbian friend in university, and I never touched the subject. Even when student-group meetings were being held to discuss the final status of Kosovo, I couldn't care to be involved. In and by themselves, the politics of the region are of little interest to me. But when I saw Spencer et al subverting and exploiting them supposedly in the service of "Anti-Jihad," I got very upset. Nothing shocks me anymore though, so I've learnt to keep my reactions in check. The research speaks for itself. I barely have to do any talking...

183 medaura18586  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 10:53:56am

Oh and, I like everything I've read by Michael Sells so far.

184 Cato the Elder  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 11:57:04am

This whole "you can't prove guilt by association" shtick is a canard. Of course you can. You can prove that a person is guilty of associating with other persons whose philosophy and goals run counter to his stated positions. No more, but also no less.

As Medaura says in concluding her article, it's about the court of public opinion. Not a judicial proceeding. And everyone, without exception, judges a man by the company he keeps.

Spencer claims not to hate Muslims. Yet he freely associates with, quotes from, appears with and supports people who not only plainly hate Muslims but have actually worked for other people who proudly promoted slaughtering them just for being Muslims. And these same people not only hate Muslims but a whole busload of other categories of human beings.

The discredit and shame that he has brought on his work by these continuing intimacies is his own doing. Exposing them is an unfortunate necessity.

185 Sharmuta  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 5:01:13pm

re: #174 Josephine

No- quite the contrary. I spent a good long time thinking on the nature of human beings, and I have been naive. And if you think I'm strictly speaking about you, then you're interpreting your own ego into my comment. And I was not trying to insult you by noticing our methods of judgment might be different, because I believe they are. To each their own.

I would likewise have you know that there are a number of people on this thread and on this blog that I've had both public and private disagreements with, despite the little inferred meme that I'm not an independent thinker. Honestly- it makes me laugh knowing as I do, and knowing that those I've disagreed with have seen it for themselves, that I don't withhold my honest opinion on matters. I still find them respectable people, and I don't think they hold me in a lower regard for telling them my honest opinion, whether we ended up agreeing one way or another later or not.

Am I taking it personally? Perhaps. But then, I haven't seen your name on a front page post at a high profile blog denouncing you and your comments, so please forgive me for thinking animosity's been thrown my way directly.

And denounce you? Since you're again correct that I don't know you, I can hardly denounce you. I thought I had a good idea of you, but I see I was wrong. That's not denouncing, that's conceding the point. You see the situation differently than I, and you're entitled to that as I'm entitled to have my view on the matter. We don't see eye to eye on this, and I fail to see what more can come from discussing it with each other.


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2016-01-01 10:29 am PST
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Square Cash Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Political Extremism: Cambridge U Study Shows Psychological Profile of Extremists Cambridge University in the UK did a study on whether there is a common psychological denominator to civil unrest, and Hoo Boy, does THIS ever sound familiar: Psychologists are now asking what turns the civil discord common in partisan ...
Khal Wimpo (exhaling for 1st time in 4 yrs)
5 hours, 12 minutes ago
Views: 87 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 7 •
Tomorrow - Jimmy Wahlsteen, Vincent VegaProvided to YouTube by Epidemic Sound Tomorrow · Jimmy Wahlsteen · Vincent Vega Epidemic Presents: Crates (M. Bison Edition) ℗ Epidemic Sound Released on: 2020-03-13 Producer: Kasper LindgrenComposer: Jimmy Wahlsteen Auto-generated by YouTube.
Thanos
23 hours, 30 minutes ago
Views: 200 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 2 •
#Thegreatpoolpondconversion - 210221The waterfall bilge pump died three weeks ago.We're trying something new.Saturday we test installed two tiny aquarium pumps to get the waterfall going again.These pumps are very small but are designed to run all the time. Bilge pumps aren't. Though ...
Dangerman
1 day, 3 hours ago
Views: 223 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 3
Tweets: 0 •
The Staves - Best Friend [Live at Lafayette] The Staves - Best Friend [Live at Lafayette] Our new album 'Good Woman' is out now: lnk.to Follow The Staves:Facebook thestaves.lnk.toTwitter thestaves.lnk.toInstagram thestaves.lnk.to YouTube thestaves.lnk.toSpotify thestaves.lnk.toiTunes thestaves.lnk.to When I could be anythingThat I wanted OhWe could be better thanBetter ...
Thanos
4 days, 17 hours ago
Views: 636 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 •
Sting - Shape of My Heart (Official Music Video)REMASTERED IN HD!Official Video For Sting's "Shape Of My Heart".#Sting #ShapeOfMyHeart #Remastered
Thanos
4 days, 22 hours ago
Views: 747 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 •
Amy Macdonald - Statues (Single Mix) (Official Audio) One of Amy's best features is that she doesn't "Americanize" her singing voice, something too many UK performers do. The Official Audio for Statues (Single Mix) by Amy Macdonald, taken from the new album 'The Human Demands'. Listen now: ...
Thanos
4 days, 22 hours ago
Views: 764 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 •
KALEO - Break My Baby (LIVE From Þrídrangar, Iceland) Break My Baby - Live from Þrídrangar - Iceland Music and Lyrics by JJ Julius Son Stream/Download: kaleo.lnk.to Þrídrangar means “three rock pillars” and is located 4.5 miles from Iceland's south coast. In 1939, three of Westman Islands' best ...
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 1,520 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 6 •
Lake Street Dive - Hypotheticals [From Phantom Studios] Video Directed + Produced by Alex Chaloff for Bucket's Moving CompanyRecorded at Phantom Studios, Gallatin TN"Hypotheticals" from the upcoming Lake Street Dive album ObviouslyOut March 12th on Nonesuch RecordsPre-Order Obviously NOW: smarturl.it Produced by Mike ElizondoRachael Price: vocalsMike “McDuck” ...
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 1,293 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 4 •
Jon Batiste - CRY (Lyric Video) Listen to “CRY” and order my album ‘WE ARE’: jon-batiste.lnk.to Shop merch: jonbatistestore.com Follow Jon:Instagram: jon-batiste.lnk.toFacebook: jon-batiste.lnk.toTwitter: jon-batiste.lnk.toSpotify: jon-batiste.lnk.to Apple Music: jon-batiste.lnk.toAmazon: jon-batiste.lnk.toSoundcloud: jon-batiste.lnk.toPandora: jon-batiste.lnk.toYouTube Music: jon-batiste.lnk.to Official Website: jonbatiste.com Video Credits:Director: Charles ToddDirector of Photography: Ben CareyProducer: Brian ...
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 1,691 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 5 •
Robert Fripp & Peter Gabriel - Here Comes the Flood (1979) [RV VERSION] Robert Fripp & Peter Gabriel - Here Comes The Flood (1979) [RV VERSION] #Peter gabriel robert fripp here comes the flood#Robert fripp peter gabriel flood#robert fripp peter gabriel flood#gabriel fripp here comes the floodhere comes the flood#Fripp#Peter#Gabriel#robert fripp#King crimson ...
Thanos
1 week, 4 days ago
Views: 1,394 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 2
Tweets: 6 •