Volcano Monitors Unite!

Science • Views: 2,383

At The Volcanism Blog (you knew there had to be one!), they’re not too happy about Governor Bobby Jindal’s “volcano monitoring” slam: Something called ‘volcano monitoring’.

The Volcanism Blog does not do politics, any more than it does sport, religion or cookery. In particular, as a blog born and bred in Great Britain, it does not do U.S. politics. It is appropriate to say here, however, that anyone capable of talking glibly about ’something called “volcano monitoring”‘ as an example of ‘wasteful spending’ needs some education in the matter.

UPDATE at 2/25/09 5:53:24 pm:

More volcanologist consternation: Magma Cum Laude: A letter to Gov. Bobby Jindal.

UPDATE at 2/25/09 6:00:59 pm:

That $140 million dollar windfall for science mentioned by Gov. Jindal is intended for much more than volcano watching: The Questionable Authority : Fact Checking the Republican Response: No, there’s not $140 million in the stim for volcano monitoring.

US Geological Survey

For an additional amount for “Surveys, Investigations, and Research”, $140,000,000, for repair, construction and restoration of facilities; equipment replacement and upgrades including stream gages, and seismic and volcano monitoring systems; national map activities; and other critical deferred maintenance and improvement projects.

UPDATE at 2/25/09 6:08:16 pm:

(Hat tip: Ojoe.)

Jump to bottom

556 comments

1 itellu3times  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:49:21pm

Maybe Jindal can demonstrate the power of his faith by walking barefoot over some red-hot lava. I'd like to see him try, teach the controversy, y'know.

2 Bloodnok  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:49:27pm

You have nothing to lose but your pahoehoe!

3 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:50:43pm

I grew up next to Mt. St. Helens. You better believe we monitored it.

p.s. I cannot believe anybody ever paid for any of that ash. It was a total pain in the tush.

4 ArmyWife  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:51:12pm

re: #2 Bloodnok

My pahoehoe?! Will I get it back in the stimulus bill?

5 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:51:42pm
6 ziggyelman  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:51:58pm

Found this link earlier today....
[Link: scienceblogs.com...]

7 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:52:01pm

UK [bigoted word]line regarding this blog's upset over Jindal:

Brit Fit Spits Twit

/I see you looking at page three
/tsk

8 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:52:07pm

Anyone willing to write off some science..cause it doesn't fit the narrative would write off all science at will.
Not be be trusted.. IMHO

9 Bloodnok  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:52:29pm

re: #4 ArmyWife

My pahoehoe?! Will I get it back in the stimulus bill?

In $13 increments.

10 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:52:30pm

I guess he doesn't belong to Pumice Keepers?

11 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:52:36pm

re: #2 Bloodnok

You have nothing to lose but your pahoehoe!

Lava Bobby Jindal alone!

/sarc

12 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:52:56pm

re: #2 Bloodnok

You have nothing to lose but your pahoehoe!

/blush

I lost my pahoehoe years ago. It was a steamy summer night ...

//////

13 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:53:23pm

Jindal can get stuffed.

With molten rock.

14 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:53:38pm

Given Sarah Palin's state's position on the Ring of Fire, I'll bet she's okay with Volcano monitoring.

/Do you have any idea how much kids like to say "Ring of Fire!"

15 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:55:24pm

Fruit flies!

16 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:55:25pm

re: #13 Cato the Elder

Jindal can get stuffed.

With molten rock.

Cato! Always nice seeing you here..Regards

17 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:55:42pm

re: #15 Killgore Trout

Fruit flies!

like a banana

18 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:55:53pm

I missed the speech. Had to work. Why is Jindal opposed to monitoring volcanos?

19 Bloodnok  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:55:56pm

re: #14 EmmmieG

Given Sarah Palin's state's position on the Ring of Fire, I'll bet she's okay with Volcano monitoring.

/Do you have any idea how much kids like to say "Ring of Fire!"

Lava
Is a burnin' thing

20 jaunte  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:55:59pm

re: #2 Bloodnok

You have nothing to lose but your pahoehoe!

Aa!

21 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:56:07pm

re: #14 EmmmieG

Given Sarah Palin's state's position on the Ring of Fire, I'll bet she's okay with Volcano monitoring.

/Do you have any idea how much kids like to say "Ring of Fire!"

Teach them to sing it, like Johnny Cash

22 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:56:07pm
23 Bloodnok  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:56:33pm

re: #20 jaunte

Aa!

Bb

24 jaunte  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:57:11pm

re: #23 Bloodnok

[Link: geology.about.com...]

25 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:57:26pm

re: #23 Bloodnok

Bb

cc
uh ohh

26 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:57:54pm

I really liked what this letter link over there had to say:

Lack of monitoring and communication caused the needless deaths of 23,000 people in the 1985 eruption of Nevado Del Ruiz volcano in Columbia. Would you prefer that we, a technologically rich country with the expertise and resources to prevent such a disaster, should eliminate the very monitoring programs that enable us to do so just because politicians like you can't be troubled to learn about why they're so important?

Your attitude toward volcano monitoring as a representative of our country's government is irresponsible and potentially deadly. If you suggest that we should discontinue volcano monitoring simply because you refuse to make the effort to understand it, then you are making yourself personally accountable for the lives, property and money that will be lost in volcanic eruptions. I am sure you will be happy to explain to the American citizens who will suffer from your recommendations why your state deserves funding to monitor and mitigate the hazards associated with flooding and hurricanes, but their homes and lives are unworthy of protection.

That about summed up my feeling from last night. It was galling that Jindal targeted a program related to a similar need to his own state- protecting citizens from natural disasters. This saves lives- whether it's hurricane tracking, volcano monitoring, earthquakes... It was an ignorant jab at a field he's already disrespected. I will never vote for this man.

27 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:57:54pm

re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist

I missed the speech. Had to work. Why is Jindal opposed to monitoring volcanos?

It was an extremely poorly thought out "example" of "wasteful spending" in the Porkulus.

If he had said something intelligent, like it wasn't really a stimulus item, but belonged in a normal spending bill, I'd have been OK.

But no, it's "wasteful".

Bad, bad Bobby. No nomination for you.

28 saberry0530  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:58:46pm

re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist

I missed the speech. Had to work. Why is Jindal opposed to monitoring volcanos?

Cause the highest point in LA is 535 ft above sea level

29 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:59:11pm
30 funky chicken  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:59:15pm

Young earth creationists are just as hostile to geology as they are to evolutionary biology. My opinion (restated) is that Jindal has tipped his hand in a big way.

31 cronus  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 5:59:19pm

Whatever happened to the National Endowment for the Arts being our all purpose spending boogeyman?

32 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:01:13pm

re: #30 funky chicken

Young earth creationists are just as hostile to geology as they are to evolutionary biology. My opinion (restated) is that Jindal has tipped his hand in a big way.

If I don't believe the mountain will blow up, it won't?

33 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:01:21pm
34 Bob Dillon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:01:21pm

re: #30 funky chicken

Young earth creationists are just as hostile to geology as they are to evolutionary biology. My opinion (restated) is that Jindal has tipped his hand in a big way.

Tipped his hand? More like stepped on his padoinkie.

Anyway - He's toast.

35 schnapp  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:02:16pm

re: #25 HoosierHoops

this could go on, lol (Dd) . .

36 Ojoe  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:03:21pm

It takes a politician to play with people's lives for political points, which is exactly what Jindal (& by proxy the GOP) was doing with the slam on volcano monitoring.

I so detest politicians.

37 cincinnati_kid37  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:03:34pm

Here's a thought. Why don't we put aside a small amount of PorkZilla and guarantee from today forward into eternity, every child who is born with a cleft pallet will receive surgery. The simple inexpensive surgery that can mean so much to a human being.

38 funky chicken  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:05:37pm
That $140 million dollar windfall for science mentioned by Gov. Jindal is intended for much more than volcano watching: The Questionable Authority : Fact Checking the Republican Response: No, there’s not $140 million in the stim for volcano monitoring.

US Geological Survey

For an additional amount for “Surveys, Investigations, and Research”, $140,000,000, for repair, construction and restoration of facilities; equipment replacement and upgrades including stream gages, and seismic and volcano monitoring systems; national map activities; and other critical deferred maintenance and improvement projects.

Yeah, but all those people believe that the earth is over 6000 years old...therefore, not worthy of government funding.

/told ya so

39 Ojoe  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:05:38pm
40 looking closely  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:06:04pm

re: #37 cincinnati_kid37

Here's a thought. Why don't we put aside a small amount of PorkZilla and guarantee from today forward into eternity, every child who is born with a cleft pallet will receive surgery. The simple inexpensive surgery that can mean so much to a human being.

Isn't this covered by SCHIP?

And having special legislation for cleft palates doesn't make any sense when Obama is going to give us all "free" cradle to grave healthcare like those enlightened European states.

41 path  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:06:08pm

re: #3 EmmmieG

I grew up next to Mt. St. Helens. You better believe we monitored it.

p.s. I cannot believe anybody ever paid for any of that ash. It was a total pain in the tush.

Not that this is right or anything but, I did. We visited about ten years later and I bought a small mouse made out of the ash - just to remember. I can't even imagine having to live through it.

42 Bloodnok  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:06:36pm

re: #39 Ojoe

Mt. St. Helens going off in 1980. (Continental USA).

Black and white film? No wonder they need $

///

43 ArmyWife  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:06:58pm

re: #36 Ojoe

I think it was not put in proper context - we need this, but it should be paid for through other means. It's certainly not wasteful, which was a very bad choice of words. That said, why should I need to translate what is being said to me?

44 Sol Roth  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:07:55pm

Here we go, more metrosexual, effete collectivist nicknaming of some freaking government program.

It's called the "Stim" now. Isn't that cute.

45 Ojoe  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:08:39pm

re: #39 Ojoe

Note that the photo of Mt. St. Helens is from the USGS:

United States Geological Survey, exactly the outfit which keeps track on these geological monsters in our midst, as deadly as any jihadi.

And which Jindal was complaining about funding.

46 funky chicken  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:08:46pm

re: #32 EmmmieG

Geologists tend to talk about the age of rock formations in the millions of years, not the hundreds or thousands. They tend to talk about things like Pangaea and how the continents were joined long, long ago. They talk about the ring of fire and how the tectonic plates are moving so very slowly....and have been for millions of years....etc, etc.

"Darwinists" are just the YEC cause celebre....but, trust me, they don't like geology either.

47 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:08:57pm

re: #37 cincinnati_kid37

Here's a thought. Why don't we put aside a small amount of PorkZilla and guarantee from today forward into eternity, every child who is born with a cleft pallet will receive surgery. The simple inexpensive surgery that can mean so much to a human being.

I saw something a week or so ago on the today show about those doctors that travel the world in their spare time and do those surgeries for free for children..
Those Doctors deserve a metal from Congress or something..Such selflessness and dedication..
That's why I love Cindy McCain...As a human she is tops in my book

48 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:09:33pm

re: #43 ArmyWife

But it's government's first role to protect and defend the citizenry. If monitoring potential natural disasters that will affect thousands upon thousands of people isn't protecting the citizenry, then I don't know what is. It is exactly the government's role to provide this life saving technology for our own behalf.

49 cronus  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:09:33pm

Slightly OT
Fundamentalist freak show Ray Comfort (he of the banana argument) took a break from today from attacking atheists to spew some venom at Catholics for the Pope's reaffirmation of the church's support for evolution.

Bill Donahue of the Catholic League replies: The simple mind of Ray Comfort

50 schnapp  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:09:36pm

re: #37 cincinnati_kid37

because that money is being spent on "all important" things such as a digital television converter box coupon program . . .

. . . that costs $650 million

51 HelloDare  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:09:50pm

I believe in volcano monitoring to protect fruit flies.

52 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:09:51pm

It's shear hypocrisy on his part. NOAA spends hundreds of millions monitoring storms and hurricanes in his region, and the army corps of engineers spends billions on levees. The temperature buoys in the gulf alone probably cost more than the program he's complaining about. The Orions that monitor the hurricanes live are pretty expensive, and just the cost per hour for their telemetry uplink is over a dollar per minute. Last year they spent more than 14K just to send the data from the planes.

It's clearly also a slam on the west and northwest, an attempt to suck some of the paltry money that the state of Alaska gets from the feds away.

53 Bloodnok  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:10:03pm

re: #43 ArmyWife

I think it was not put in proper context - we need this, but it should be paid for through other means. It's certainly not wasteful, which was a very bad choice of words. That said, why should I need to translate what is being said to me?

The USGS is a bureau of the Dept. of the Interior, so it has to be federally funded. (I know what'cha mean, though)

54 Ojoe  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:10:21pm

re: #43 ArmyWife

Ah yes, but I don't think the USGS could exist by popular subscription & Lincoln, (I think it was) said the government is for doing the things that the people cannot do themselves.

55 jaunte  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:12:01pm

re: #46 funky chicken

Geologists tend to talk about the age of rock formations in the millions of years, not the hundreds or thousands. They tend to talk about things like Pangaea and how the continents were joined long, long ago. They talk about the ring of fire and how the tectonic plates are moving so very slowly....and have been for millions of years....etc, etc.

"Darwinists" are just the YEC cause celebre....but, trust me, they don't like geology either.

Here's a good essay from one of the previous threads links about the variety of 'anti-science' (and the steadfast denial that anyone is anti-science) going on in the anti-evolution crowd:
[Link: blog.darwincentral.org...]

56 ArmyWife  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:13:09pm

re: #48 Sharmuta

I'd rather pay for this then rebuilding Gaza, make no mistake. I don't see why it would take a stimulus bill to make it happen. I firmly believe this should be part of regular government projects - not some special gazillion dollar boondoggle.

57 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:13:24pm

Meanwhile, I see three, count 'em, three identical ads for the lame-ass "American Tea Party" (more watercress sandwiches, please, Mervyn!) in the sidebar.

So hows that working out? Will we get a tax credit for fine china?

58 cincinnati_kid37  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:14:05pm

re: #40 looking closely

Isn't this covered by SCHIP?

And having special legislation for cleft palates doesn't make any sense when Obama is going to give us all "free" cradle to grave healthcare like those enlightened European states.

Well, I'm talking worldwide.

And as my after-thought, since we're sending 900 million to Hamas to re-arm while they spend maybe a couple mil of that for 'aid', it only seems fitting we could put a few mil away a year to take care of any child on the entire planet with a cleft pallet.

And another after-thought, let's challenge each of those other countries Liberals love to believe are somehow better than the USA(you know like France who Obama seems to admire since most of them can speak English while HE can only say Merci Beaucoups) to take on one similar cause themselves. Are we civilized or not? Sacre Bleu!

59 Fighton03  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:14:31pm

Wow...looks like a minor eruption over this.....

60 Truck Monkey  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:14:57pm

I have to say it. Charles, why are you so obsessed with Volcanos. Don't you realize we are under the constant threat from Islamofascists?

/////

61 HelloDare  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:15:30pm

I can understand somebody not knowing the benefits of research on fruit flies but being ignorant to the destruction volcanoes can cause is hard to fathom.

62 Ojoe  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:15:49pm

Vesuvius will knock out Naples at some time in the future

63 Killer Tomato  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:15:51pm

So, why don't we just appoint a Volcano Monitor Lizard?

64 Ojoe  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:16:42pm

The whole of Yellowstone will go up at some time in the future

65 doppelganglander  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:17:07pm

re: #57 Cato the Elder

Meanwhile, I see three, count 'em, three identical ads for the lame-ass "American Tea Party" (more watercress sandwiches, please, Mervyn!) in the sidebar.

So hows that working out? Will we get a tax credit for fine china?

I get two Tea Parties and one for Joe the Plumber's book, so the slot machine doesn't pay off for me.

Wait, Joe the Plumber has a book?!

66 path  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:17:07pm

re: #60 Truck Monkey

I have to say it. Charles, why are you so obsessed with Volcanos. Don't you realize we are under the constant threat from Islamofascists?

/////


I thought the major task of the government was to protect us. That means from all threats internal and external. They can't make us pay attention as in New Orleans but they need to let us know what the threat is.

67 Perplexed  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:17:42pm

re: #18 SanFranciscoZionist

I missed the speech. Had to work. Why is Jindal opposed to monitoring volcanos?

He doesn't have any in his backyard. When the Yellowstone caldera goes off were all pretty much screwed.

68 Ojoe  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:17:45pm

Mt. Lassen in California erupted in 1914, and it will blow again.

Who cares though?

69 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:18:22pm

re: #56 ArmyWife

But Jindal didn't attack the gaza spending- he attacked spending that will save American lives. I found it very telling. There's plenty of other spending to criticize- why target life saving science? The answer is simple- because there's an anti-science faction in the GOP.

70 HelloDare  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:18:42pm

re: #64 Ojoe

The whole of Yellowstone will go up at some time in the future

Shhh. Obama will want money to protect the bison and wolves.

71 Ojoe  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:18:51pm

At least the volcanos in Hawaii aren't the violently exploding type.

72 HelloDare  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:19:28pm

re: #68 Ojoe

Mt. Lassen in California erupted in 1914, and it will blow again.

Who cares though?

Can't we put a big condom over the top of it?

74 saberry0530  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:20:01pm

re: #64 Ojoe

The whole of Yellowstone will go up at some time in the future

I have a geologist at work who did his doctoral thesis on the caldera at Yellowstone. We talk about it ALLLLL the F'in time. (Go FIgure). He says that wtihin our life time BOOOMMMMM.

75 Summer Seale  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:20:09pm

"Hey boy! Whatcha got there? Is that a book? You must be one of those Gee-ohlohgist libruls. We don't take too kindly to your type round these here parts...."

76 Bloodnok  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:20:14pm

re: #63 Killer Tomato

So, why don't we just appoint a Volcano Monitor Lizard?

How do you know that we don't have them now and Charles has asked them not to reveal themselves?

77 cincinnati_kid37  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:20:22pm

re: #50 schnapp

because that money is being spent on "all important" things such as a digital television converter box coupon program . . .

. . . that costs $650 million

That comes out to 16,250,000 units at 40 bucks each. Guess that sounds about right for the number of people who are still on da rabbit ears. I don't think we should pay for that actually.

As a perspective, Government regulates air bags for all cars. That adds 4 figures to the cost of the car you buy, and no one even burps over it, but hell, tell em they gotta spend 40 bucks to drag their ass into the 22nd century and continue to receive crappy, but free programming an all ell breaks loose.

78 cincinnati_kid37  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:21:21pm

re: #47 HoosierHoops

I saw something a week or so ago on the today show about those doctors that travel the world in their spare time and do those surgeries for free for children..
Those Doctors deserve a metal from Congress or something..Such selflessness and dedication..
That's why I love Cindy McCain...As a human she is tops in my book

I agree.

79 Manfred the Wonder Dog  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:21:21pm

Isn't the Redoubt volcano in Alaska an item of concern at the moment? That, and the movement in the Yellowstone caldera is real.

80 Perplexed  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:21:24pm

re: #40 looking closely

Isn't this covered by SCHIP?

And having special legislation for cleft palates doesn't make any sense when Obama is going to give us all "free" cradle to grave healthcare like those enlightened European states.

Yes, but Obama (cue in angelic choir) will do it right the first time and won't have anyone abusing the free health care.

///////////

81 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:21:31pm

Here's one of the anti science comments dropped off at my place after Charles linked the other night, notice they drag in every bit of kookspiracy about science from eugenics to engineered food, slam science for having no morals, and then characterize some subset of humanity as "parasites":

The real problem here is that science was once granted great respect and authority and credibility, and threw it all away.

Forget attacking the religious. Science needs to get its squandered credibility back. As soon as it does, the religious people become irrelevant. But as long as science ignores why people are “voting with their feet”, the problem will continue to grow.

All those grand promises science made? Instead of curing disease, we still die - but now we’re alone and without dignity, in a ridiculous little hospital gown, in a cold industrial room. Instead of feeding the world, our food supply is tainted and untrustworthy. Drug company profits are soaring but our drugged kids aren’t thriving. Marriage counseling doesn’t save marriage.

The scientific community likes to claim credit for miracles, but it acts like the unintended consequences arising from those miracles “just happened”. Drug resistant TB? Global warming? Traffic jams? Pollution? Can’t imagine where THOSE came from!

Credibility starts with listening to all the people who are screaming at the top of their lungs that they do not like the decisions being made by “experts” on their behalf.

If people do not want to eat engineered foods, maybe it’s worth actually considering that people have a right to care about what they put in their mouth. The one trying to change the world should always be the one who carries the burden of establishing trust. (I personally changed my mind about whether “food engineering” people could be trusted when someone started adding chemicals to beef, to keep it red even after it goes bad.)

And even when science does seem to know what it’s doing, it seems to be putting all that knowledge and technology to use helping the parasites instead of making the world better. Science likes to pretend it has no moral responsibilities, but let me ask you, are these drugs really safe for kids? Are the economists really helping America stay economically strong? If scientists can’t be expected to provide us with the truth, who can?

Science needs to either stop pretending it has the right to make ethical decisions (for instance, having an opinion on who or what does or does not qualify as “human”), or it needs to start taking that ethical responsibility seriously, and stop arguing OTOH that ethics is somehow outside the realm of science, as if science were merely about gathering data. If science is merely about gathering data, then scientists aren’t qualified to make ethical determinations. If scientists want to be treated as having more clout than ordinary citizens, then they can’t be amoral anymore - they have to understand and accept that the power of science cannot be allowed to do harm.

82 HelloDare  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:21:35pm

re: #71 Ojoe

At least the volcanos in Hawaii aren't the violently exploding type.

They throw an occasional tourist in to appease Pele.

83 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:21:47pm

re: #75 Summer

"Hey boy! Whatcha got there? Is that a book? You must be one of those Gee-ohlohgist libruls. We don't take too kindly to your type round these here parts...."

Stereotypes are funny.

/

84 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:22:05pm

re: #68 Ojoe

Mt. Lassen in California erupted in 1914, and it will blow again.

Who cares though?

Everyone should. If you won't care about the well being of your fellow man because your base has a problem with science, you shouldn't call yourself a Christian.

86 Perplexed  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:22:43pm

re: #70 HelloDare

Shhh. Obama will want money to protect the bison and wolves.

Yummy roasted bison, wolves, and bears.

87 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:22:54pm

re: #67 Perplexed

He doesn't have any in his backyard. When the Yellowstone caldera goes off were all pretty much screwed.

Well, heck, I oppose levees! God's waters should be allowed to go anywhere they darn well feel like it, without blasphemous human interference!

/

88 ArmyWife  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:23:03pm

re: #69 Sharmuta

You may be very correct, I'm sad to say.

89 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:23:18pm

The big meme in the lefty blogs after the talks was "Bubba Jindal".

90 Summer Seale  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:23:24pm

re: #83 OldLineTexan

Stereotypes are funny.

/

Sometimes they are. =)

91 Bloodnok  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:23:53pm

re: #81 Thanos

Here's one of the anti science comments dropped off at my place after Charles linked the other night, notice they drag in every bit of kookspiracy about science from eugenics to engineered food, slam science for having no morals, and then characterize some subset of humanity as "parasites":

I love it. "But we still die".

Dammit! Science told me no more dying!

92 looking closely  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:24:01pm

Charles,

While I certainly can understand your animus towards Jindal's Creationism, I don't necessarily agree that being a Creationist makes him a "non-starter" as a Republican presidential candidate next election cycle. (Assuming he even runs next cycle).

It certainly can't help, but there is still quite a bit of time before 2013, and a lot can (and most certainly will) happen in that time.

For example, Jindal could easily assume a "separation of Federal gov't and church" position regardless of his history on this particular issue. There are other ways he could waffle this to make it more palatable to the broad electorate.

The point is, this may not be as much of an Achilles' heel as you might think.

Also, don't discount the Republican primary process in narrowing the field to the most electable candidate.

93 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:24:21pm

Is it true that Rush said that those who don't like Jindal suck?

94 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:24:21pm

re: #69 Sharmuta

But Jindal didn't attack the gaza spending- he attacked spending that will save American lives. I found it very telling. There's plenty of other spending to criticize- why target life saving science? The answer is simple- because there's an anti-science faction in the GOP.

I do fail to see where 11 x aid to Gaza will result in an economic stimulus in the US.

95 jaunte  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:24:22pm

re: #81 Thanos
That one came very close to talking about 'precious bodily fluids.'

96 Ojoe  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:24:24pm

re: #86 Perplexed

In old times in Yellowstone you could catch trout in a cool stream, and cook them nearby in the hot springs.

97 nyc redneck  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:24:35pm

volcanos can be so deadly. it would be irresponsible not to monitor them.
also some environments inside volcanos are rich in unusual bacterial life.
and when they spew they can drastically alter the weather.
when the world trade towers collapsed, geologists found that there was a big similarity to erupting volcanos.
plumes of soot and smoke and ash flowed exactly like a volcano.
and there were reports of first responders being bounced around in the air by rivers of this debris.
there was even a 'shock cocoon' in one of the towers, in the stair well, where several people survived the whole place coming down around them.
we can't decry the study of volcanos. (it's too interesting and important.)
or the study of geology even if the scientific findings are a threat to what creationists believe.
what will be the next inquiry to go?

98 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:24:39pm

re: #91 Bloodnok

I love it. "But we still die".

Dammit! Science told me no more dying!

Yeah, that one cracked me up.

99 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:25:05pm

re: #87 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, heck, I oppose levees! God's waters should be allowed to go anywhere they darn well feel like it, without blasphemous human interference!

/

George W. Bush? Izzat you?

;)

100 snowcrash  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:25:39pm

I would have noted the 30 mil. slated for Pelosi's marsh mouse habitat.

101 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:26:00pm

A few years back, when I was just browsing the library looking for something to read, I found the only book that I have ever put back after reading just the first page.

The plot began with the idea that the entire human race could just sit around and collect government checks, but the hero had chosen to work because he was bored.

I'm okay with my sci fi abusing the laws of physics; I expect it. I do want my sci fi to follow the laws of economics, though.*

/Now why am I bringing this up now?

*And, for humans, the basic laws of human nature. Aliens and monsters exempt.

102 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:26:03pm

re: #96 Ojoe

In old times in Yellowstone you could catch trout in a cool stream, and cook them nearby in the hot springs.

And the bears grew fat and indolent on steamed tourist with trout stuffing. ;)

103 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:26:24pm

re: #94 OldLineTexan

I do fail to see where 11 x aid to Gaza will result in an economic stimulus in the US.

Probably won't--although I assume American companies might get contracts to do some of the work.

I don't think the Gaza aid is connected to the stimulus package, though, and I assume Gov. Jindal wanted to point to some piece of it that he could call dumb without having to explain it too much. Seems he picked the wrong piece.

104 ArmyWife  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:26:50pm

re: #92 looking closely

yes, but that hasn't been what's happened here - there has been support of creationism in school by Jindal.

I DO NOT CARE IF YOU ARE A CREATIONIST. I care if you make it become mantra for the rest of us. Our tent is big - you are welcome here, but we should support the Constitution, not insist we all believe in the same religious tenants. Its the religious freedom we fight for - not the religious in and of itself.

105 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:27:07pm

re: #89 Thanos

The big meme in the lefty blogs after the talks was "Bubba Jindal".

Only in America could the son of Indian immigrants be called "Bubba". What a country!

106 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:27:14pm

re: #90 Summer

Sometimes they are. =)

Sure. Let's draw some chimp cartoons.

/

107 Summer Seale  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:27:17pm

re: #83 OldLineTexan

Stereotypes are funny.

/

Seriously tho...I would rather you take issue with Jindal's stupid approach "justifying" that stereotype than me pointing it out. =)

BTW, I've been to certain places in the Appalachians where that exact same language and attitude still exist....so no, it's not just the South. =)

108 HelloDare  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:27:37pm

re: #85 Ojoe

Mammoth Mountain in California will blow someday. This article talks about keeping track of it.

I know several people who vacation at Mammoth. All very liberal. Ironic that they spend so much time at a place with such a high concentration of CO2.

Mammoth is outgassing large amounts of carbon dioxide out of its South flank, near Horseshoe Lake. The concentration of carbon dioxide in the ground ranges from 20 to 90 percent CO2. Measurements of the total discharge of carbon dioxide gas at the Horseshoe Lake tree kill area range from 50 to 150 short tons (45 to 140 t) per day. This high concentration causes trees to die in six regions that total about 170 acres (0.69 km2) in size (see photo, below).[13] Camping has been prohibited in the tree kill area since 1995, to prevent asphyxiation of campers due to accumulation of carbon dioxide in tents and restrooms.[citation needed]

The tree kills originally were attributed to a severe drought that affected California in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Another idea was that the kills were the result of a pathogen or other biological infestation. However neither idea explained why all trees in the affected areas were killed regardless of age or health. Then in March 1990, a United States Forest Service ranger became ill with suffocation symptoms after being in a snow-covered cabin near Horseshoe Lake.[14]
Carbon dioxide has killed a large area of trees

Measurements around the lake found that restrooms and tents had a greater than 1% CO2 concentration (toxic), and a deadly 25% concentration of CO2 in a small cabin. CO2 concentrations of less than 1% are typical and healthy in most soils, however soil concentrations of CO2 in the tree kill areas ranged from 20% to 90%. This overabundance of CO2 was found to be the cause of the tree kills because tree roots need to absorb O2 directly and the high CO2 level reduced available O2. Researchers also determined that Mammoth releases about 1,300 short tons (1,200 t) of CO2 every day. As of 2003 the concentration of carbon dioxide in soil gas at Mammoth Mountain is being monitored on a continuous, year-round basis at four sites - three at Horseshoe Lake and one near the base of Chair 19 at the ski area

109 itellu3times  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:27:38pm

re: #77 cincinnati_kid37

I burp over it, spending my money to have a shotgun shell mounted in my steering wheel, aimed at my face, some moron beauracrat politician's idea of science, when if you just wear the seatbelt, the airbag can do nothing good but might break your nose, your hand, or your neck, ... go ahead, ask me about my airbag!

110 Killer Tomato  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:27:38pm

re: #100 snowcrash

I would have noted the 30 mil. slated for Pelosi's marsh mouse habitat.

There's so much in that bill it's an embarassment of riches. His pick was totally boneheaded.

111 ArmyWife  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:27:41pm

re: #93 MandyManners

Sort of. He said we shouldn't attack him for not being eloquent. And I agree - we should criticize him for what he said, not how he said it.

112 looking closely  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:27:55pm

re: #56 ArmyWife

I'd rather pay for this then rebuilding Gaza, make no mistake. I don't see why it would take a stimulus bill to make it happen. I firmly believe this should be part of regular government projects - not some special gazillion dollar boondoggle.

The biggest problem with the "stimulus" (best known as the '09 Pelosi-Obama spending bill) was that it was a conglomerate of dozens of entirely separately projects, that at any other time would have been independently vetted by Congress.

If it had been tried that way (instead of being rammed through as a 1000 page monstrosity that literally nobody could possibly have read before signing it), most of it would have actually see the light of day before signing, and failed.

113 VioletTiger  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:28:05pm

re: #68 Ojoe

Mt. Lassen in California erupted in 1914, and it will blow again.

Who cares though?


What about Krakatoa? That should go off eventually.

114 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:28:06pm

re: #100 snowcrash

I would have noted the 30 mil. slated for Pelosi's marsh mouse habitat.

IIRC, that was a possible 30 mil for wetlands restoration. Was it ever confirmed that it was even meant for SF Bay?

115 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:28:45pm
116 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:28:45pm

re: #102 OldLineTexan

And the bears grew fat and indolent on steamed tourist with trout stuffing. ;)

Circle of life.

117 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:28:47pm

re: #107 Summer

Seriously tho...I would rather you take issue with Jindal's stupid approach "justifying" that stereotype than me pointing it out. =)

BTW, I've been to certain places in the Appalachians where that exact same language and attitude still exist....so no, it's not just the South. =)

Not everyone with a Southern accent is an inbred Deliverance hick.

118 Summer Seale  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:29:16pm

re: #117 OldLineTexan

Not everyone with a Southern accent is an inbred Deliverance hick.

I agree.

119 pink freud  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:29:18pm

re: #12 OldLineTexan

/blush

I lost my pahoehoe years ago. It was a steamy summer night ...

//////

I double-dawg caldera you to tell us the story .....

120 ArmyWife  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:29:19pm

re: #117 OldLineTexan

Nope. Some of us are quite intelligent. ;)

121 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:29:41pm

re: #92 looking closely

Charles,

While I certainly can understand your animus towards Jindal's Creationism, I don't necessarily agree that being a Creationist makes him a "non-starter" as a Republican presidential candidate next election cycle. (Assuming he even runs next cycle).

It certainly can't help, but there is still quite a bit of time before 2013, and a lot can (and most certainly will) happen in that time.

For example, Jindal could easily assume a "separation of Federal gov't and church" position regardless of his history on this particular issue. There are other ways he could waffle this to make it more palatable to the broad electorate.

The point is, this may not be as much of an Achilles' heel as you might think.

Also, don't discount the Republican primary process in narrowing the field to the most electable candidate.

Are you crazy? Governor Jindal has tried to do away with the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment! There's no way to "waffle" his way around this.

Hold on while I check the Louisiana Constitution.

122 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:29:45pm

re: #105 MandyManners

Only in America could the son of Indian immigrants be called "Bubba". What a country!

Being a Bubba is a state of mind.

123 Fighton03  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:29:51pm

re: #75 Summer

"Hey boy! Whatcha got there? Is that a book? You must be one of those Gee-ohlohgist libruls. We don't take too kindly to your type round these here parts...."

Especially if that book was printed before 1985......

124 Sol Roth  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:30:27pm

re: #93 MandyManners

Is it true that Rush said that those who don't like Jindal suck?

He said he was through with those who criticized Jindal's delivery. Something about him "only being 37 years old." That's when I switched to the local small town AM station that broadcasts small town news, the farm report and classic country. I had a much better day than yesterday as a result.

I don't even like country.

125 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:30:34pm

re: #109 itellu3times

I burp over it, spending my money to have a shotgun shell mounted in my steering wheel, aimed at my face, some moron beauracrat politician's idea of science, when if you just wear the seatbelt, the airbag can do nothing good but might break your nose, your hand, or your neck, ... go ahead, ask me about my airbag!

Actually, most airbags use blasting caps. And those can be useful....

/Not advocating anything illegal, just kidding around

126 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:31:01pm

re: #119 pink freud

I double-dawg caldera you to tell us the story .....

It was more than 6,000 years ago, so some of you may not believe it ...

////////////////

127 Killgore Trout  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:31:03pm

re: #92 looking closely

For example, Jindal could easily assume a "separation of Federal gov't and church" position regardless of his history on this particular issue.


Fat chance.

128 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:31:20pm

re: #92 looking closely

Do you really think for a minute that Jindals Owners Donors will let him do that?

He's raised 3 M in a state where it's not needed, and that came from somewhere. The groups I know with big chunks of change in off years also tend to give to Discovery Institute if that's a clue.

129 Gus  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:31:36pm

re: #126 OldLineTexan

It was more than 6,000 years ago, so some of you may not believe it ...

////////////////

640,000 years I think.

130 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:31:51pm

re: #94 OldLineTexan

I do fail to see where 11 x aid to Gaza will result in an economic stimulus in the US.

If we're going to pinpoint spending to criticize, we should really make sure he hit the right marks. What of real waste, what of programs that double up services, what about real accountability in how government spends our money? There are real fiscal issues going on, and the GOP response last night instead played politics with science as it's punching bag while ignoring real solutions. A certain portion of the base was pandered to last night, and it wasn't the fisc-cons. I, for one, didn't appreciate it.

131 theheat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:32:03pm

re: #69 Sharmuta

But Jindal didn't attack the gaza spending- he attacked spending that will save American lives. I found it very telling. There's plenty of other spending to criticize- why target life saving science? The answer is simple- because there's an anti-science faction in the GOP.

I'm glad to see people from both sides of the aisle took Jindal to task on this. If no one thought before his beliefs about science aren't a voting issue, the evidence is mounting - it is. It is not coincidence he's 'crickets' about real pork, but chooses to admonish spending on scientific research... that isn't weather or hurricane related.

132 pink freud  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:32:11pm

re: #113 VioletTiger

What about Krakatoa? That should go off eventually.

Anak Krakatoa ....Son of Krakatoa.

133 Sol Roth  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:32:12pm

re: #109 itellu3times

I burp over it, spending my money to have a shotgun shell mounted in my steering wheel, aimed at my face, some moron beauracrat politician's idea of science, when if you just wear the seatbelt, the airbag can do nothing good but might break your nose, your hand, or your neck, ... go ahead, ask me about my airbag!

What about your airbag!?

134 HelloDare  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:32:26pm

re: #113 VioletTiger

What about Krakatoa? That should go off eventually.

It goes off every 300 years or so. I forget what the interval is. Last time I think was in 1883. Read a book about it. After the volcano went off and the area was destabilized, radical Muslims killed a lot of foreign settlers and businessmen. I believe the Dutch were prominent there at the time.

There is a British painter who painted the sunset just about every evening. There's a record of the red sunsets in England that were caused by the eruption of Krakatoa. If I can find the link, I'll post it.

135 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:32:33pm

re: #105 MandyManners

Only in America could the son of Indian immigrants be called "Bubba". What a country!

Americans can do ANYTHING!

136 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:32:36pm

re: #129 Gus 802

640,000 years I think.

It was a hell of a party, wasn't it?

/

137 Killer Tomato  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:32:44pm

re: #92 looking closely

He's toast.

138 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:32:45pm

Lizardim -

Ha-Shem - in the Christian Version said, more or less, that there are many houses in my Father's Mansion - THIS - leaves a LOT of Room. For EVOLUTION,
For MULTIPLE CREATION. EARTH, may NOT be UNIQUE, only part of the Plan of Ha-Shem. Revolutionary? - Perhaps not. IF Ha-Shem is Ha-Shem, Ha-Shem is Ha-Shem. Ha-Shem CAN do as Ha-Shem pleases - AND - LHAO as WE try to figure it out. That is all.

-S-

139 snowcrash  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:32:46pm

re: #114 SanFranciscoZionist
I will have to check. Could well be a memorable "talking point" and not fact.

140 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:32:50pm
141 Perplexed  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:33:07pm

re: #125 Dark_Falcon

Actually, most airbags use blasting caps. And those can be useful....

/Not advocating anything illegal, just kidding around

Didn't airbags use lead azide as the driving propellant? Aren't lead based items dangerous to children? Aren't the children exposed to vaporized lead based explosives? Ban airbags for the sake of the children.

/////

142 Gus  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:33:26pm

re: #136 OldLineTexan

It was a hell of a party, wasn't it?

/

That's a lot of candles!

/

143 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:33:31pm

re: #130 Sharmuta

Agreed, it was a pathetic and lame attempt. I don't know if it was so much pandering as just lack of THOUGHT, which is even more disturbing.

144 ArmyWife  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:33:41pm

re: #128 Thanos

Which is why we must be sure we are in support of protecting one's right to believe in creationism. That doesn't mean it comes in the form of science class in public school, however. Someone just needs to have the cojones to stand up and say it in public.

145 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:33:47pm

re: #92 looking closely

For example, Jindal could easily assume a "separation of Federal gov't and church" position regardless of his history on this particular issue.

Ooh. Lookee here! He's violated the Constitution of the State of Louisiana.


§8. Freedom of Religion

Section 8. No law shall be enacted respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof.

How's about them apples?

146 Summer Seale  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:34:01pm

re: #134 HelloDare

It goes off every 300 years or so. I forget what the interval is. Last time I think was in 1883. Read a book about it. After the volcano went off and the area was destabilized, radical Muslims killed a lot of foreign settlers and businessmen. I believe the Dutch were prominent there at the time.

There is a British painter who painted the sunset just about every evening. There's a record of the red sunsets in England that were caused by the eruption of Krakatoa. If I can find the link, I'll post it.

Simon Winchester: "The Day the World Exploded: August 27, 1883 - Krakatoa"

I have the book and have read it. Really amazing and interesting story.

147 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:34:39pm

re: #124 Sol Roth

He said he was through with those who criticized Jindal's delivery. Something about him "only being 37 years old." That's when I switched to the local small town AM station that broadcasts small town news, the farm report and classic country. I had a much better day than yesterday as a result.

I don't even like country.

His delivery might've sucked but, the speech itself sucked more.

148 albusteve  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:34:45pm

Jimmy Buffet don't know....


149 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:34:50pm

re: #65 doppelganglander

I get two Tea Parties and one for Joe the Plumber's book, so the slot machine doesn't pay off for me.

Wait, Joe the Plumber has a book?!

LOL. Joe has a "book" the way Jessica Simpson has one.

Yes he can!

150 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:34:56pm

Please take moment to downding and report the ass at number 87 on the previous thread. Downdings make nice parting gifts, since that troll will get banned.

151 Gus  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:34:57pm

So I reckon we went over Mt. Penatubo and Clark Air Force Base?

152 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:35:06pm

re: #142 Gus 802

That's a lot of candles!

/

Yeah, Al Gore called with the carbon credit bill.

It's not pretty.

153 pink freud  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:35:17pm

re: #147 MandyManners

His delivery might've sucked but, the speech itself sucked more.

Locally, the damage control meisters are in full spin. No one's buying it.

154 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:35:22pm

re: #146 Summer

Simon Winchester: "The Day the World Exploded: August 27, 1883 - Krakatoa"

I have the book and have read it. Really amazing and interesting story.

Also, part of the inspiration for a very fine children's book, William du Bois' "Twenty-One Balloons".

155 theheat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:35:45pm

re: #93 MandyManners

Did he? I know he had an article on his site that was from an interview with Jindal (earlier, yesterday), and he was heralding Jindal as the next coming. I didn't recall he said anything about non-believers sucking. But it wouldn't be the first time Rush said something inflammatory and stupid.

156 Killer Tomato  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:36:00pm

re: #141 Perplexed

Didn't airbags use lead azide as the driving propellant? Aren't lead based items dangerous to children? Aren't the children exposed to vaporized lead based explosives? Ban airbags for the sake of the children.

/////

I got some lovely bruises and burns on my forearms from mine. Of course, I'm not a child.
Agewise anyway.

157 rawmuse  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:36:21pm

I think I was pretty green at 37, too. This was a big steamer, and the Gov. stepped in it.

158 VioletTiger  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:36:36pm

re: #134 HelloDare

It goes off every 300 years or so. I forget what the interval is. Last time I think was in 1883. Read a book about it. After the volcano went off and the area was destabilized, radical Muslims killed a lot of foreign settlers and businessmen. I believe the Dutch were prominent there at the time.

There is a British painter who painted the sunset just about every evening. There's a record of the red sunsets in England that were caused by the eruption of Krakatoa. If I can find the link, I'll post it.


Wasn't that eruption supposed to be the loudest sound ever on earth?

159 CynicalConservative  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:38:09pm

re: #150 Dark_Falcon

Please take moment to downding and report the ass at number 87 on the previous thread. Downdings make nice parting gifts, since that troll will get banned.

Wow, Ozark Mt, got the stick. Missed something bad.

160 ArmyWife  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:38:21pm

re: #157 rawmuse

I'm 37. It's not a viable excuse for me. Mistakes happen in an unprepared statement, not a pre-written speech.

161 Summer Seale  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:38:30pm

re: #158 VioletTiger

Wasn't that eruption supposed to be the loudest sound ever on earth?

Yes. Winchester also explains that it was the first "international media" event with the advent of the telegraph etc.... It was a huge disaster - bigger than the Tsunami a few years ago.

162 SteveC  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:38:56pm

People are still popping their top about the volcano comment? Just cool it, would ya? :)

163 albusteve  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:39:00pm

re: #158 VioletTiger

Wasn't that eruption supposed to be the loudest sound ever on earth?

louder than White Snake?....no way dude

164 Perplexed  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:39:05pm

re: #158 VioletTiger

Heard in India if I recall the History Channel correctly.

165 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:39:17pm

re: #159 CynicalConservative

No kidding. Me too.

166 Kragar  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:39:51pm

I was trying to take a nap when the kids decided their new game was going to be taking turns for who had the best scream. Yeah, that ended well.

167 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:40:12pm

re: #146 Summer

Simon Winchester: "The Day the World Exploded: August 27, 1883 - Krakatoa"

I have the book and have read it. Really amazing and interesting story.

I was watching Discovery or History channel the other night and there's a lot of speculation that it might have gone off with an even bigger bang in 385 AD, some minor but not conclusive proofs of that in Ice cores from both poles and historical docs. (It's inconclusive because they can't prove it was Krakatoa that deposited the ash, but some massive volcano near the equator did.)

168 pink freud  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:40:26pm

re: #158 VioletTiger

Wasn't that eruption supposed to be the loudest sound ever on earth?

Heard three thousand miles away in San Francisco, supposedly.

169 looking closely  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:40:28pm

re: #104 ArmyWife

yes, but that hasn't been what's happened here - there has been support of creationism in school by Jindal.

I DO NOT CARE IF YOU ARE A CREATIONIST. I care if you make it become mantra for the rest of us. Our tent is big - you are welcome here, but we should support the Constitution, not insist we all believe in the same religious tenants. Its the religious freedom we fight for - not the religious in and of itself.


Well, for the record, I am absolutely NOT a creationist at all, and I have gone on record here MANY times opposing the teaching of Creationism in schools masqueraded as "science", as well as overtly mocking those who support it.

My position on this is that there is absolutely no room in the science classroom for the advocacy of "Creationism", "Intelligent design" or any other faith-based explanations of natural events. And in case I haven't already made myself clear, I feel pretty strongly about this.

I also agree 100% with Charles that support for Creationism is anachronistic, and on net, its hurting the Republican party. So fundamentally, I'm with you on this.

My point, though, is that whatever its flaws, Creationism is just ONE issue out of many. Even though I strongly disagree with Jindal on this issue (and no doubt on others), I'd still be willing to support him at a national level, so long as he was otherwise the best candidate based on his advocacy of other positions. The latter remains to be seen.

In other words, this one isn't a "deal breaker" for me, when there are substantially "bigger fish" to fry with regards to fundamental economic policy, foreign policy, defense issues, etc. There is only so much a POTUS can do on "creationism" anyway.

Jindal is certainly flawed, but who is perfect? With that in mind, and such a small Republican minority, I don't like "bashing" him, that's all.

170 Perplexed  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:40:34pm

re: #156 Killer Tomato

Ouch, hope that was all that happened and you recovered without issue.

171 SteveC  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:40:42pm

re: #166 Kragar (Proud to be kafir)

I was trying to take a nap when the kids decided their new game was going to be taking turns for who had the best scream. Yeah, that ended well.

For you, maybe. For the kids.... not so much.

172 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:41:11pm

re: #159 CynicalConservative

Wow, Ozark Mt, got the stick. Missed something bad.

He went nuclear nosedive and posted a nasty rant about Charles and praised lgf2. It was a meltdown of the worst order. And very surprising coming from an established poster.

173 Summer Seale  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:41:14pm

re: #167 Thanos

I was watching Discovery or History channel the other night and there's a lot of speculation that it might have gone off with an even bigger bang in 385 AD, some minor but not conclusive proofs of that in Ice cores from both poles and historical docs. (It's inconclusive because they can't prove it was Krakatoa that deposited the ash, but some massive volcano near the equator did.)

Yea, there was a really great Nova about super volcanoes last year that touched on that too. =)

174 looking closely  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:41:28pm

re: #117 OldLineTexan

Not everyone with a Southern accent is an inbred Deliverance hick.

/Not that there's anything wrong with that. . .

175 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:41:29pm

re: #143 OldLineTexan

Agreed, it was a pathetic and lame attempt. I don't know if it was so much pandering as just lack of THOUGHT, which is even more disturbing.

We're in a real fiscal mess, and the GOP prided itself once as being a party with solutions. All I heard last night was complaints and pandering. Nothing about any sort of real solution to this mess. How about the idea of government spending it's money like a real business or household? How about eliminating or merging programs that are doubling up services? Where were the real solutions last night?! We head nothing like that. What I heard was a disregard for a fiscal conservative like me.

176 Kragar  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:41:55pm

re: #171 SteveC

For you, maybe. For the kids.... not so much.

I doing what I can to stay calm and reduce stress after last week. This was not the way to do it

177 ArmyWife  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:42:38pm

I'm going to go read my book for a bit - then bed. Big meeting at corporate tomorrow (ugh). Be good, see ya later!

178 nyc redneck  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:42:39pm

geology is important science.
it's earth science. it does have a lot to do w/ evolution.
but he should have gone after the n.e.a. which sponsors very degrading shite
abt. religion and america.
if that was his intent.

179 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:42:41pm

re: #174 looking closely

/Not that there's anything wrong with that. . .

No, there's something very, very wrong about that!

180 Higgs Boson  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:42:51pm

re: #134 HelloDare

Turner's Impression Sunrise.

181 pink freud  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:43:44pm

G'nite ArmyWife. Hope tomorrow goes well.

182 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:43:46pm

re: #172 Dark_Falcon

He went nuclear nosedive and posted a nasty rant about Charles and praised lgf2. It was a meltdown of the worst order. And very surprising coming from an established poster.

What is going on? Something in the water that makes people go crazy?
I'm sticking to rain water and grain alcohol from now on.

183 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:44:21pm

re: #182 Kosh's Shadow

What is going on? Something in the water that makes people go crazy?
I'm sticking to rain water and grain alcohol from now on.

We must protect our precious bodily fluids.

184 avanti  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:44:47pm

re: #74 saberry0530

I have a geologist at work who did his doctoral thesis on the caldera at Yellowstone. We talk about it ALLLLL the F'in time. (Go FIgure). He says that wtihin our life time BOOOMMMMM.

Could take out a few states if it blows, don't follow the link if you live nearby.

185 lobo91  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:44:55pm

Great line from a Hannity guest: "Barney Frank is too stupid to be a spellchecker in an M&Ms factory."

LOL

186 cincinnati_kid37  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:45:01pm

re: #109 itellu3times

I burp over it, spending my money to have a shotgun shell mounted in my steering wheel, aimed at my face, some moron beauracrat politician's idea of science, when if you just wear the seatbelt, the airbag can do nothing good but might break your nose, your hand, or your neck, ... go ahead, ask me about my airbag!

Couldn't agree more ! I hate nanny society.

187 Truck Monkey  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:45:09pm

re: #183 OldLineTexan

We must protect our precious bodily fluids.

I've been known to share mine on occasion.
;)

188 Dustyvet  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:45:10pm

re: #183 OldLineTexan

We must protect our precious bodily fluids.

General Ripper is dat you?


/S

189 Sol Roth  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:45:14pm

re: #147 MandyManners

His delivery might've sucked but, the speech itself sucked more.

Never paid much attention to Jindal until the last hurricane season. He executed his duties well for Louisiana. Ike would have ripped the cajuns a new one like it did our Bolivar peninsula. They lucked out.

The creepy monotone delivery of repetition was a real turnoff though. I thought it was the stress of the event, but it appears that's his real persona. Too bad.

190 Killer Tomato  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:45:38pm

re: #169 looking closely

I don't know that we're necessarily 'bashing' him, but while that position might not be a deal breaker for you, it is to a lot of the people who we need to bring into our tent. And that particular position is one the media will hammer on relentlessly.
I'm afraid he's irreparably damaged.

191 HelloDare  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:45:43pm

re: #146 Summer

Simon Winchester: "The Day the World Exploded: August 27, 1883 - Krakatoa"

I have the book and have read it. Really amazing and interesting story.

Krakatoa is said to be the loudest sound heard by man. Well, man that lived to tell about it. It was heard by a ship almost 3,000 miles away. The pressure wave went around the world seven times. I think that was the number.

Recording barometers were a big fad at the time. There were a lot to them in England.

192 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:46:04pm

re: #187 Truck Monkey

I've been known to share mine on occasion.
;)

I'd suggest a spanking, but ...

/

193 snowcrash  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:46:10pm

re: #114 SanFranciscoZionist
Looks like $37.5 mil for a major wetlands reclamation project. It wasn't for the mouse although the mouse will benefit. It clearly is a jobs program.

194 Proximate  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:46:30pm

I don't care how worthy the cause is. This volcano monitoring did not belong in a job-creating stimulus bill. Period.

Does that make me anti-science? Stuff it.

I don't agree with the idea of government stimulus anyway, but it certainly didn't belong in that bill.

195 CynicalConservative  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:46:44pm

re: #172 Dark_Falcon

He went nuclear nosedive and posted a nasty rant about Charles and praised lgf2. It was a meltdown of the worst order. And very surprising coming from an established poster.

Wow, surprising. Thanks for the update.

196 Bob Dillon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:46:47pm

re: #113 VioletTiger

What about Krakatoa? That should go off eventually.

Yes, it is going off at present. I was on a geodetic survey team that visited it - Anak Krakatau in 1972.

Could pop again as in 1883 but probably not in our lifetimes.

197 pink freud  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:47:11pm

re: #184 avanti

Could take out a few states if it blows, don't follow the link if you live nearby.

Excellent site.

198 HelloDare  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:47:59pm

re: #146 Summer

That's the book I read -- well listened to. It was narrated by the author.

199 Bob Dillon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:48:11pm

re: #158 VioletTiger

Wasn't that eruption supposed to be the loudest sound ever on earth?

Said to have sounded like "distant cannon fire" in Europe and England.

200 Bloodnok  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:48:26pm

A different Eruption

201 Killer Tomato  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:48:44pm

re: #170 Perplexed

Broke an ankle. Fine now though, thanks.
:-)

202 Dustyvet  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:48:55pm

A man is defending himself at trial after having been caught by a game warden just as he blew a Spotted Owl into a flurry of feathers.

After reading the charges, the judge, well known for his environmental sympathies, gravely announced that since the species concerned is in danger of imminent extinction, he would have to make an example out of the defendant.

The man, waxing eloquent, said he was very sorry for what he'd done, but that he was totally destitute and needed the bird to need his hungry children. All he had to his name, he said, his coice cracking with emotion, was the little bit of bird shot he had left in his gun.

The judge took off his glasses to wipe a tear from the corner of his eye, and after regaining his composure, told the defendant he would let him go with a warning this time.

The man beamed with pride as he started out of the courtroom.

Just then, the judge called out, "Oh, by the way, what does a Spotted Owl taste like?"

The man's face came alive as he turned around and said, "Your honor, it's hard to describe. Sort of a cross between a Bald Eagle, a Whopping Crane and a California Condor."

203 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:49:44pm

re: #93 MandyManners

Is it true that Rush said that those who don't like Jindal suck?

Mandy - More or Less YES - Here I respectfully disagree with RUSH. Gov. Jindal is apparently a BIT more like GWB than I would prefer. AND, as I understand RUSH, he is GREAT with small crowds, as was GWB. Give Gov. Jindal time, he was NOT at his best Last Night. Pres. OBAMA was, even if he had to FUDGE the whole time. An Un-Leashed Gov. PALIN would have knocked them BOTH to the CURB, yeah, OK, I know the election of 2008 is OVER - AND - My MOM would have Laughed at both Pres. Obama and Gov. Jindal, sorry to say. She would have found a way to induct Gov. Palin into her Hadassah Chapter as an "Honorary Member" - as she did with my ex-wife - who didn't listen. Bet'cha Gov. Sarah Palin would listen - and Learn A LOT.

-S-

204 VioletTiger  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:50:01pm

If you look back in history, volcanic eruptions caused some of the worst disasters in history. And, there is some discussion now that the great extinction 65 million years ago was caused not by a meteor strike, but by massive eruptions in the Himalayas. But hey, let's not worry about volcanoes.

205 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:50:24pm

re: #194 Proximate

Wrong, it wasn't just monitoring. It was also repair of infrastructure, stream bed systems and other regional federal critical infrastructure needs. People will go to work doing that. It's a regional project of the sort that the Feds should do, just like highways because they affect the general good of multiple states, not just one.
If you have to have federal spending, better that sort than state by state earmarks.

206 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:50:29pm

re: #155 theheat

Did he? I know he had an article on his site that was from an interview with Jindal (earlier, yesterday), and he was heralding Jindal as the next coming. I didn't recall he said anything about non-believers sucking. But it wouldn't be the first time Rush said something inflammatory and stupid.

Those were not his words but, from what I've gathered, that was the gist.

207 Killer Tomato  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:50:36pm

re: #184 avanti

Could take out a few states if it blows, don't follow the link if you live nearby.

Guess when I plant my garden this spring I should put in wheat and corn.

208 HelloDare  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:50:57pm

Krakatoa.

From Wikipedia:

Its best known eruption culminated in a series of massive explosions on August 26–27, 1883, which was among the most violent volcanic events in modern times. With a Volcanic Explosivity Index of 6,[2] it was equivalent to 200 megatons of TNT — about 13,000 times the yield of the Little Boy bomb (13 to 16 KT) that devastated Hiroshima, Japan, and four times the yield of the Tsar Bomba (50 MT), the largest nuclear weapon ever built. The 1883 eruption ejected approximately 21 cubic kilometres (5.0 cu mi) of rock, ash, and pumice,[3] and generated the loudest sound historically reported: the cataclysmic explosion was distinctly heard as far away as Perth in Australia approx. 1,930 miles (3,110 km), and the island of Rodrigues near Mauritius approx. 3,000 miles (5,000 km) distant. Near Krakatoa, according to official records, 165 villages and towns were destroyed and 132 seriously damaged, at least 36,417 (official toll) people died, and many thousands were injured by the eruption, mostly from the tsunamis that followed the explosion. The eruption destroyed two-thirds of the island of Krakatoa.

209 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:51:45pm

re: #188 Dustyvet

General Ripper is dat you?

/S

I keep trying to order Wing Operation Plan R on the Eye-ranians, but the order keeps getting blocked.

210 buckykat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:51:48pm

re: #71 Ojoe

At least the volcanos in Hawaii aren't the violently exploding type.

Except when they explode.

211 Killian Bundy  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:52:01pm

re: #185 lobo91

Great line from a Hannity guest: "Barney Frank is too stupid to be a spellchecker in an M&Ms factory."

How dumb are you? What utter bull[expletive deleted]!

/CBS ‘60 Minutes’: Barney Frank, ‘The Smartest Guy in Congress’

212 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:52:47pm

re: #194 Proximate

I don't care how worthy the cause is. This volcano monitoring did not belong in a job-creating stimulus bill. Period.

Does that make me anti-science? Stuff it.

I don't agree with the idea of government stimulus anyway, but it certainly didn't belong in that bill.

I don't like your attitude pal..Don't post every blue moon and come off like that.. And if you are anti-science..You f*cking stuff it..
Now..you want to start over?
What do you think about hiring a gallizion gov't workers to lean on their shovels in the stimulus?

213 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:52:59pm

re: #194 Proximate

I disagree this spending won't create jobs. From the manufactures of the equipment to the engineers and construction folks to install them- it will create jobs of people around the country. Plus this upgrade is vital in protecting our fellow citizens from disaster. I don't see why this needed to get targeted for criticism except to pander to a portion of the base.

214 HelloDare  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:53:25pm

re: #185 lobo91

Great line from a Hannity guest: "Barney Frank is too stupid to be a spellchecker in an M&Ms factory."

LOL

He'd throw half of them away because they were W&W's

215 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:53:25pm

re: #209 Kosh's Shadow

I keep trying to order Wing Operation Plan R on the Eye-ranians, but the order keeps getting blocked.

Bad idea, no B-52 could go into an area protected by S-300s without support and survive.

216 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:53:29pm
217 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:53:32pm

re: #211 Killian Bundy

How dumb are you? What utter bull[expletive deleted]!

/CBS ‘60 Minutes’: Barney Frank, ‘The Smartest Guy in Congress’

"Guy". There's your problem.

/spell checker FAIL
/NTTAWWT

218 abu_garcia  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:53:38pm

I have more than a passing familiarity with seismology and I will tell you that we have more than enough seismos out there monitoring just about everything that wiggles in this country. The data vastly outweighs our ability to make useful analysis and/or prediction.

The guys complaining about Jindal are guys paid to look at the data, catalog it, and scratch their beards while making semi-educated grunts. For those who tell you that they will learn to predict better, that is to a certain extent true, but these are chaotic events and your ability to predict is limited by nature - you may not know that, but I do.

That'll piss off some rockpickers, but at the same time I'm not overly fond of the feddle gummint providing "insurance" for folks who choose to live in harms way down on the coast at rates the commercial market will not bear, so I doubt Bobby J. would love me either.

Please don't tell me about the devastation down there, I also know something about the kind of structures/investments that were built/made before the government teat started flowing. For those who do not know, before Uncle Deeppockets arrived on the scene people built more expendable structures or structures that were more resistant to storms. Some of them were my relatives. Houses on slab, houses on concrete block piers, are just crap shoots waiting for the next Cat 2.

So it goes.

219 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:53:48pm

re: #153 pink freud

Locally, the damage control meisters are in full spin. No one's buying it.

He might be a good governor to rebuild Louisiana but, he's woefully unprepared to run for the nomination. Give him some more time and experience. And, the chance to rethink his apparent aversion to science.

220 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:54:09pm

re: #214 HelloDare

He'd throw half of them away because they were W&W's

And he'd eat the rest of them. Then he'd head off to the fudge packing room.

221 Perplexed  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:54:16pm

re: #211 Killian Bundy

How dumb are you? What utter bull[expletive deleted]!

/CBS ‘60 Minutes’: Barney Frank, ‘The Smartest Guy in Congress’

Wasn't Barney Frank clueless about the prostitution ring being run out of his place?

222 VioletTiger  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:55:36pm

re: #196 Bobibutu

Yes, it is going off at present. I was on a geodetic survey team that visited it - Anak Krakatau in 1972.

Could pop again as in 1883 but probably not in our lifetimes.

That must have been a very interesting trip. Are you a geologist?

223 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:55:43pm

re: #211 Killian Bundy

How dumb are you? What utter bull[expletive deleted]!

/CBS ‘60 Minutes’: Barney Frank, ‘The Smartest Guy in Congress’

Rathergate updated.

224 Perplexed  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:56:01pm

re: #220 Dark_Falcon

And he'd eat the rest of them. Then he'd head off to the fudge packing room.

Tacky, funny, but definitely tacky.

225 doppelganglander  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:57:08pm

re: #146 Summer

Simon Winchester: "The Day the World Exploded: August 27, 1883 - Krakatoa"

I have the book and have read it. Really amazing and interesting story.

Anything by Simon Winchester is highly recommended. If you're into geology, "A Crack in the Edge of the World," about the 1906 San Francisco earthquake, is superb. He's also written two fabulous books about the making of the Oxford English Dictionary: "The Professor and the Madman" and "The Meaning of Everything."

Another one Winchester fans might like is "Isaac's Storm" by Erik Larson, about the Galveston hurricane in 1900. Very salient to our discussion about monitoring natural phenomena to predict and prevent disasters.

226 Tigger2005  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:57:12pm

re: #3 EmmmieG

I grew up next to Mt. St. Helens. You better believe we monitored it.

p.s. I cannot believe anybody ever paid for any of that ash. It was a total pain in the tush.

Why pay for it? When I woke up the morning after the eruption and went out to my car, it had a very thin coating of fine ash on it.

I live halfway across the country from Mt. St. Helens.

227 Truck Monkey  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:57:15pm

re: #221 Perplexed

Wasn't Barney Frank clueless about the prostitution ring being run out of his place?

Oh come on. That is really unfair. A prostitution ring could break out in just about anyones basement.
*snark*

228 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:57:19pm

re: #221 Perplexed

Wasn't Barney Frank clueless about the prostitution ring being run out of his place?

I once lived in an apartment next to a dope dealer. Figured it out in about fifteen minutes one Saturday night.

Barney must be really dim.

229 Dustyvet  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:57:29pm

Does an excellent student of vulcanology graduate magma cum laude?

230 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:57:49pm

re: #222 VioletTiger

That must have been a very interesting trip. Are you a geologist?

Look at his name. He was a native bearer.

/JK

231 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:57:50pm

re: #221 Perplexed

Yep. Gay one at that, obviously. Censored for it in Congress. These days it would pass for good ethics.

232 NJDhockeyfan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:57:57pm

Here's something that looks fun. Take the Volcano Quiz.

233 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:58:19pm

re: #215 Dark_Falcon

Bad idea, no B-52 could go into an area protected by S-300s without support and survive.

Well, then, missile wing plan R. I just can't seem to get the everyone to turn the keys together.

234 pink freud  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:58:24pm

re: #219 MandyManners

He might be a good governor to rebuild Louisiana but, he's woefully unprepared to run for the nomination. Give him some more time and experience. And, the chance to rethink his apparent aversion to science.

EXACTLY.

235 Sol Roth  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:58:32pm

re: #211 Killian Bundy

How dumb are you? What utter bull[expletive deleted]!

/CBS ‘60 Minutes’: Barney Frank, ‘The Smartest Guy in Congress’

What does Bonnie Fwank use instead of bookmarks?

Bent over pages.


/Bonnie's genius on display circa 1985. That's a real '80s joke folks.

236 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:58:34pm

re: #226 Tigger2005

Why pay for it? When I woke up the morning after the eruption and went out to my car, it had a very thin coating of fine ash on it.

I live halfway across the country from Mt. St. Helens.

So guess how much those of us who live close got?

237 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:58:52pm

re: #208 HelloDare

Hello Dare -

All of which caused - LONG NIGHTS IN LONDON - As Proved through the Photographic Record of the Time - HARD TO ALTER - as means of alteration were scarce at the time except physical manipulation prior to taking the picture - See: Matthew Brady - the First Fauxtographer. The ERUPTION of Krakatoa caused more "Climate Change" in the late 1800's than so-called "Global Waming" will in the next SCORE of years. That is all.

-S-

238 Bob Dillon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:59:07pm

re: #222 VioletTiger

That must have been a very interesting trip. Are you a geologist?

Most interesting. Na - computer geek back then ... and Satellite Navigation Tech. at the time. (GPS in the stone age).

239 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:59:11pm

re: #229 Dustyvet

No actually its magma come loudly.

240 Dustyvet  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:59:14pm

Some of the Deadliest Volcanic Eruptions

Eruption (Volcano, Lacation) Year Casualties Major Cause
Tambora, Indonesia 1815 92,000 Starvation
Krakatau, Indonesia 1883 36,000 Tsunami
Mont Pelee, Martinique 1902 30,000 Pyroclastic flows
Nevado del Ruiz, Colombia 1985 25,000 Mudflows
Unzen, Japan 1792 15,000 Volcano collapse, Tsunami
Kelut, Indonesia 1586 10,000
Lakagigar (Laki), Iceland 1783 9,000 Starvation
Mount Vesuvius, Italy 79 A.D. 3,360 Pyroclastic Flow

241 Truck Monkey  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:59:26pm

re: #236 EmmmieG

So guess how much those of us who live close got?

A very thick coating?

242 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:59:34pm

re: #227 Truck Monkey

Oh come on. That is really unfair. A prostitution ring could break out in just about anyones basement.
*snark*

I haven't noticed one in mine, unless it involves mice.

243 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 6:59:44pm

re: #225 doppelganglander

Anything by Simon Winchester is highly recommended. If you're into geology, "A Crack in the Edge of the World," about the 1906 San Francisco earthquake, is superb. He's also written two fabulous books about the making of the Oxford English Dictionary: "The Professor and the Madman" and "The Meaning of Everything."

Another one Winchester fans might like is "Isaac's Storm" by Erik Larson, about the Galveston hurricane in 1900. Very salient to our discussion about monitoring natural phenomena to predict and prevent disasters.

O.T.
Also a very good read by Larson is The Devil in the White City about the 1893 Grand Colombian Exposition and serial killer H.H. Homes. Its a true classic and well worth the read if you have an interest in Chicago history.

244 albusteve  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:00:08pm

what's the big deal with Jindal?....he's not ready and won't be in four years...he has alot of weird baggage the GOP does not need to carry for him...he was lousy last night and will probably be lousy the next speech he gives...it's not bashing...he's an inferior product...pretty simple imo

245 abu_garcia  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:00:13pm

re: #74 saberry0530

I have a geologist at work who did his doctoral thesis on the caldera at Yellowstone. We talk about it ALLLLL the F'in time. (Go FIgure). He says that wtihin our life time BOOOMMMMM.


If that's actually what he says he's an idiot.

246 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:00:27pm

Just in case you get stuck at the water cooler in the morning and American Idol comes up..
Go with Adam, Megan and the 16 yr old Allison..Everyone will be talking about that young woman..Crap..she has pipes!

247 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:00:33pm

re: #225 doppelganglander


Another one Winchester fans might like is "Isaac's Storm" by Erik Larson, about the Galveston hurricane in 1900. Very salient to our discussion about monitoring natural phenomena to predict and prevent disasters.

Excellent book.

248 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:01:13pm

re: #193 snowcrash

Looks like $37.5 mil for a major wetlands reclamation project. It wasn't for the mouse although the mouse will benefit. It clearly is a jobs program.

Thanks, I was wondering about that. Hmmm. Wonder if they'd hire my husband.

249 Truck Monkey  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:01:14pm

re: #244 albusteve

what's the big deal with Jindal?....he's not ready and won't be in four years...he has alot of weird baggage the GOP does not need to carry for him...he was lousy last night and will probably be lousy the next speech he gives...it's not bashing...he's an inferior product...pretty simple imo

He actually looks like the kid that everyone wanted to beat up in high school.

250 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:01:43pm

re: #233 Kosh's Shadow

Well, then, missile wing plan R. I just can't seem to get the everyone to turn the keys together.

Sorry, Commander, Major Kong and I are in Vegas at present. SITREP tomorrow if we make it out. Over.

251 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:01:52pm

re: #237 Dr. Shalit

The one in Iceland in the 1700s the Laki Volcano [Link: en.wikipedia.org...] killed off 25% of the people in Iceland and created famines as far away as Egypt

252 Perplexed  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:02:26pm

re: #245 abu_garcia

Some of the lakes in Yellowstone have changed their shorelines due to the upheaval. Geysers aren't behaving properly which seems to suggest that ground water isn't going where it used to go. Might get interesting since that is one really big caldera.

253 jaunte  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:02:44pm

re: #225 doppelganglander

Another one Winchester fans might like is "Isaac's Storm" by Erik Larson, about the Galveston hurricane in 1900. Very salient to our discussion about monitoring natural phenomena to predict and prevent disasters.

Reading that book during the recent Hurricane Ike put our slight storm damage and 2 weeks of power outage into clear perspective.

254 albusteve  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:03:26pm

re: #249 Truck Monkey

He actually looks like the kid that everyone wanted to beat up in high school.

that to...the GOP needs a blockbuster candidate in '12...someone with a name like Buck Savage...not Bobby

255 Killer Tomato  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:03:48pm

re: #206 MandyManners

Those were not his words but, from what I've gathered, that was the gist.

LIMBAUGH: [T]he people on our side are really making a mistake if they go after Bobby Jindal on the basis of style. Because if you think - people on our side I'm talking to you - those of you who think Jindal was horrible, you think - in fact, I don't ever want to hear from you ever again. ... I've spoken to him numerous times, he's brilliant. He's the real deal.
3:35 here

256 WhiteRasta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:04:38pm

That volcano is spewing Carbon Dioxide.

Is there some kind of Carbon Sequestering plan in the works?

I bet that thing is spewing more CO2 than a Hummer.

257 TedStriker  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:04:46pm

re: #159 CynicalConservative

Wow, Ozark Mt, got the stick. Missed something bad.

It's not the first time OMD's gotten the stick, but if he was going off the deep end praising lgf2 and going all stealth creationist on us, I don't think he'll be back.

Damn shame...

258 pink freud  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:04:52pm

re: #248 SanFranciscoZionist

Thanks, I was wondering about that. Hmmm. Wonder if they'd hire my husband.

This place is phenomenal. [Link: www.nwrc.usgs.gov...]

It's in Lafayette, LA.

259 MandyManners  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:04:55pm

I've screwed up my printer so I gotta' shut down. bbl

260 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:05:27pm

re: #242 Kosh's Shadow

I haven't noticed one in mine, unless it involves mice.

Hooker mice! In teeny hot pants, with holes for their tails!

261 Vicious Babushka  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:05:29pm

re: #202 Dustyvet

A man is defending himself at trial after having been caught by a game warden just as he blew a Spotted Owl into a flurry of feathers.

After reading the charges, the judge, well known for his environmental sympathies, gravely announced that since the species concerned is in danger of imminent extinction, he would have to make an example out of the defendant.

The man, waxing eloquent, said he was very sorry for what he'd done, but that he was totally destitute and needed the bird to need his hungry children. All he had to his name, he said, his coice cracking with emotion, was the little bit of bird shot he had left in his gun.

The judge took off his glasses to wipe a tear from the corner of his eye, and after regaining his composure, told the defendant he would let him go with a warning this time.

The man beamed with pride as he started out of the courtroom.

Just then, the judge called out, "Oh, by the way, what does a Spotted Owl taste like?"

The man's face came alive as he turned around and said, "Your honor, it's hard to describe. Sort of a cross between a Bald Eagle, a Whopping Crane and a California Condor."

That's not a joke.

262 CynicalConservative  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:05:55pm

re: #257 talon_262

It's not the first time OMD's gotten the stick, but if he was going off the deep end praising lgf2 and going all stealth creationist on us, I don't think he'll be back.

Damn shame...

That clarifies a bit. Didn't know about previous banning/meltdowns. Thanks.

263 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:06:13pm

re: #251 Shr_Nfr

The one in Iceland in the 1700s the Laki Volcano [Link: en.wikipedia.org...] killed off 25% of the people in Iceland and created famines as far away as Egypt

shr_nfr -

AND - The "ALGORE" - without rhythm - wants to make us believe that COW FARTS will end the world. Is he BLOODY KIDDING? That is all, for now.

-S-

264 BignJames  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:06:24pm

re: #256 WhiteRasta

Yeah, we're gonna put it back underground....somehow.

265 Bloodnok  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:06:52pm

re: #255 Killer Tomato

LIMBAUGH: [T]he people on our side are really making a mistake if they go after Bobby Jindal on the basis of style. Because if you think - people on our side I'm talking to you - those of you who think Jindal was horrible, you think - in fact, I don't ever want to hear from you ever again. ... I've spoken to him numerous times, he's brilliant. He's the real deal.

You shan't Rush, you shan't.

266 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:07:23pm

re: #254 albusteve

that to...the GOP needs a blockbuster candidate in '12...someone with a name like Buck Savage...not Bobby

You want to run a porn star in 2012?

267 doppelganglander  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:07:24pm

re: #243 Dark_Falcon

O.T.
Also a very good read by Larson is The Devil in the White City about the 1893 Grand Colombian Exposition and serial killer H.H. Homes. Its a true classic and well worth the read if you have an interest in Chicago history.

I adore that book -- I've read it twice. I picked it up for the serial killer and got an unexpected dose of architecture, which I really enjoyed. Amazingly, it was assigned to my daughter's 11th grade Honors American Lit class. She's enjoying it too. Did you like "Thunderstruck?"

268 albusteve  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:08:13pm

re: #265 Bloodnok

as far as I'm concerned Rush jumped the shark and is well out to sea...who needs him anyway?

269 theheat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:08:49pm

re: #194 Proximate

Actually, I live in an area closely monitored, where flooding appears to be the most likely side effect of any decent-sized eruption. No, we won't be swallowed by lava, most likely, but the flooding could impact many tens of thousands of residents along the flood path. As is, heavy rains have caused substantial flooding, deaths, and loss of property along the flood path calculated in the case of a volcanic eruption. (Face it, if heavy rains can wipe us out, think of what an eruption could do. )

To put in place ways to hold and divert water from such a catastrophe could provide numerous jobs, since we have virtually nothing in place at this time. So, yes, I believe job creation is a very realistic side-effect. I don't think this falls under the heading of pure pork.

270 Cato the Elder  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:08:53pm

re: #249 Truck Monkey

He actually looks like the kid that everyone wanted to beat up in high school.

FTFY

271 albusteve  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:09:02pm

re: #266 SanFranciscoZionist

You want to run a porn star in 2012?

if nominated I will not accept...

272 mattm  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:09:19pm

Volcanoes need to be watched, just lie we watch for hurricanes, etc. As part of a bill designed to stimulate the economy and create jobs. No. I don't see many jobs that you average person could do in this field.

273 looking closely  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:09:45pm

re: #190 Killer Tomato

I don't know that we're necessarily 'bashing' him, but while that position might not be a deal breaker for you, it is to a lot of the people who we need to bring into our tent. And that particular position is one the media will hammer on relentlessly.
I'm afraid he's irreparably damaged.


You well could be right.

But if so, what's the point of kicking him now?

As you say, the press isn't going to carry water for Jindal they way they did for Obama. His support for Creationism isn't a secret, and assuming he runs for POTUS (that's not a "given") it will come out early during the primary season.

Didn't Chris Matthews point blank ask the Republican presidential candidates which ones of them did not believe in evolution?

274 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:10:22pm

re: #254 albusteve

that to...the GOP needs a blockbuster candidate in '12...someone with a name like Buck Savage...not Bobby

The looks of JFK
the wisdom of Lincoln
the personality of Reagan
the diplomacy of Nixon
The courage of GWB
the flamboyant hero of Teddy R.
the warmth of FDR..
/forgive me steve for I have sinned LOL

275 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:10:34pm

re: #265 Bloodnok

It saddens me to hear this from Rush. My problem wasn't Jindal's style, it was his content. Is that not a fair criticism now? It was fair to criticize McCain's.....

276 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:10:42pm

re: #266 SanFranciscoZionist

You want to run a porn star in 2012?

You're thinking of Buck Naked.

/

277 Bloodnok  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:11:07pm

re: #268 albusteve

as far as I'm concerned Rush jumped the shark and is well out to sea...who needs him anyway?

Certainly not I.

I enjoyed his schtick in the early 90's. Now it's just old.

278 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:11:24pm

re: #272 mattm

Volcanoes need to be watched, just lie we watch for hurricanes, etc. As part of a bill designed to stimulate the economy and create jobs. No. I don't see many jobs that you average person could do in this field.

The people who do work in this field will however be glad for their paycheck.

279 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:11:35pm

re: #276 OldLineTexan

You're thinking of Buck Naked.

/

Oh. Yeah, I love his early work...

//

280 TedStriker  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:11:36pm

re: #266 SanFranciscoZionist

You want to run a porn star in 2012?

No, that would be Buck Wyld...

;-P

281 albusteve  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:11:40pm

re: #274 HoosierHoops

The looks of JFK
the wisdom of Lincoln
the personality of Reagan
the diplomacy of Nixon
The courage of GWB
the flamboyant hero of Teddy R.
the warmth of FDR..
/forgive me steve for I have sinned LOL

me too...oh well, it's dog catcher for guys like us eh?

282 theheat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:11:59pm

re: #254 albusteve

Buck Savage sounds like a new collector's hunting knife.

/

283 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:12:19pm

re: #264 BignJames

Yeah, we're gonna put it back underground....somehow.

BignJames -

WHY? PLANT MORE TREES. Trees BREATHE CO2 and Exhale Oxygen among other things. "Search Engine" the rest.

-S-

284 Proximate  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:13:06pm

re: #205 Thanos

Wrong, it wasn't just monitoring. It was also repair of infrastructure, stream bed systems and other regional federal critical infrastructure needs. People will go to work doing that. It's a regional project of the sort that the Feds should do, just like highways because they affect the general good of multiple states, not just one.
If you have to have federal spending, better that sort than state by state earmarks.

By that twisted ruler, anything is stimulus.

Stimulus was mainly supposed to be about helping parts of the economy that were suffering most, such as construction. There were supposed to be a lot shovel-ready policies. The Vulcanism project looks like a lot of $ for specialized equipment that may take a while to design and produce, but will produce few jobs and take years to spend. And it won't help the hardest-hit areas of the economy, such as construction. Disagree? Show me the math, please... the estimated $s per job for this. If nobody knows, then it shouldn't have gone in the bill.

That's not to say we don't need to spend money on volcanic monitoring. This nation does already, maybe we need to spend more. But it didn't belong in a must-have-an-effect-immediately stimulus bill.

Like me, Jindal did not say that we should never spend money on volcanic monitoring. Like me, he said it didn't belong in this stimulus bill. His stand for fiscal responsibility doesn't mean he's anti-science. I'm very pro-science and I am a Catholic. If you haven't noticed before, Catholics have no problem with evolution at all.

But hey, don't let me keep you from putting words in his mouth. Calumny is fun. Wrong, but fun.

285 doppelganglander  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:13:14pm

And still on geology, how could I have overlooked Winchester's "The Map that Changed the World?" The paperback comes out in April.

286 BignJames  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:13:15pm

re: #283 Dr. Shalit


Hey...it's not my idea.

287 albusteve  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:13:58pm

re: #275 Sharmuta

It saddens me to hear this from Rush. My problem wasn't Jindal's style, it was his content. Is that not a fair criticism now? It was fair to criticize McCain's.....

Rush is a boob that thinks he's more than he is...if he needs to influence people he sure did with me...in my view he's another millionaire talking pimp...I like some of his stuff but that's what he is

288 pat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:14:24pm

This has nothing to do with stimulus, and frankly I do expect a great deal of this money to go down the governmental rat hole of no-bid contracts and academic rewards.

289 Killer Tomato  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:14:26pm

re: #273 looking closely

Something else that's occurred to me (FWIW) is Jindal's age. After 4 years of overgrown teenagers running amok in DC, the electorate might want to see someone with a little more experience at the helm.

290 looking closely  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:14:36pm

re: #219 MandyManners

He might be a good governor to rebuild Louisiana but, he's woefully unprepared to run for the nomination. Give him some more time and experience. And, the chance to rethink his apparent aversion to science.


That's what they said about Obama.
Unprepared, not ready, not enough experience, etc.
Maybe that was all right. . .but empirically he seemed to do OK.
Again, elections are several years off.
That gives Obama plenty of time to implode, and Jindal to mature.
We'll see what happens.
I'm no Jindal "fan", but neither am I prepared to write him off either right now.

291 Perplexed  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:14:43pm

'Night all.

292 albusteve  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:15:14pm

re: #282 theheat

Buck Savage sounds like a new collector's hunting knife.

/

whoa...think of the logo...a sharp steely edge hoisted over the budget

293 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:15:28pm

re: #266 SanFranciscoZionist

You want to run a porn star in 2012?

Well, according to CNN, there is a move to draft Stormy Daniels to run for the Senate in Jindal's state next year (she's originally from Shreveport).

294 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:15:40pm

And here we have why the smugness of the anti-science wing of the GOP needs to be held firmly in check. Because, you know, having a megaton range eruption from the Earth is nothing to look out for.... Damn Hippies!

295 Gus  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:16:02pm

Hey, the Jindal - Volcanoes Google search has doubled overnight. Was about 7000 last night tonight it's 14,000.

296 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:16:11pm

Jindal's Eruption of Hot Gas:
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

“I was kind of taken aback by the way volcanic monitoring was portrayed in the speech,” said Brad Singer, a professor of geology at the University of Wisconsin. “Every once in awhile there's some odd science research going on that sounds so out there that it's not useful and even I can laugh at some of those. But volcano monitoring is a serious business. I would say there are hundreds of thousands of people in the US who live in the sphere of hazard associated with many individual volcanoes.”

(As an aside, I wonder what is Jindal's opinion on fruit fly research...)

297 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:16:30pm

re: #293 Dark_Falcon

Well, according to CNN, there is a move to draft Stormy Daniels to run for the Senate in Jindal's state next year (she's originally from Shreveport).

We did have a porn star run for Gov. of California in the Great Madness that brought us Ahnold. Mary Cary. My husband followed her campaign closely.

298 Gearhead  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:16:53pm

Actually, Jindall answered on thing unequivocally for me lat night:

The GOP is still searching for its voice for the next election.

We'll get there, but a few more hopefuls are going to resemble Icarus over the next year or so.

299 Gus  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:17:28pm

re: #296 Basho

Jindal's Eruption of Hot Gas:
[Link: www.thedailybeast.com...]

(As an aside, I wonder what is Jindal's opinion on fruit fly research...)

Do we have anyone on record regarding "something called Gypsy Moth research"?

300 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:17:44pm

re: #267 doppelganglander

I adore that book -- I've read it twice. I picked it up for the serial killer and got an unexpected dose of architecture, which I really enjoyed. Amazingly, it was assigned to my daughter's 11th grade Honors American Lit class. She's enjoying it too. Did you like "Thunderstruck?"

Yes. My cousin got for me for Christmas last year. I'd finished it before New Year's. Great book, and the story of Marconi taught me a lot that I hadn't known before.

301 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:18:27pm

Perhaps it's because I've been reading more science books, but a large number of scientific fields such as geology don't have huge money making potential as an industry, but the benefits to our country are beyond dispute. Natural disaster preparedness saves lives, and science plays a big role in that. If it weren't for government funding, it's unlikely much of this would be provided for at all. What private company would monitor a volcano simply to make sure the local citizens were able to evacuate should the volcano become active and dangerous? Surely this is a case for government involvement.

Some think this won't provide jobs, but you're wrong. The people who will actually go preform this maintenance and upgrading will be glad to know they can do what they love and help their fellow Americans at the same time. They'll gladly tell you this section of the stimulus gave them a paycheck.

302 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:18:27pm

re: #294 LudwigVanQuixote

Smug is definitely a fitting word for them...

303 looking closely  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:18:29pm

re: #266 SanFranciscoZionist

You want to run a porn star in 2012?

Gives new meaning to the term Presidential "stimulus package" doesn't it?

304 pink freud  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:18:55pm

re: #293 Dark_Falcon

Well, according to CNN, there is a move to draft Stormy Daniels to run for the Senate in Jindal's state next year (she's originally from Shreveport).

To replace Vitter, no less.

305 Proximate  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:19:01pm

re: #212 HoosierHoops

I don't like your attitude pal..Don't post every blue moon and come off like that.. And if you are anti-science..You f*cking stuff it..
Now..you want to start over?
What do you think about hiring a gallizion gov't workers to lean on their shovels in the stimulus?

I'm not anti-science. I keep pretty busy and can't devote a lot of time to post.

Sorry, I'll start over: Jindal never said he was against volcanic monitoring. He said that the item didn't belong in a stimulus bill. Ascribing more to his words than that is calumny... something I don't care for no matter whom it is applied to.

306 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:19:26pm
307 looking closely  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:20:01pm

re: #301 Sharmuta

What private company would monitor a volcano simply to make sure the local citizens were able to evacuate should the volcano become active and dangerous? Surely this is a case for government involvement.


How about people simply not living adjacent to volcanoes?
/OK, that's crazy talk.

308 TedStriker  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:20:13pm

re: #284 Proximate

Like me, Jindal did not say that we should never spend money on volcanic monitoring. Like me, he said it didn't belong in this stimulus bill. His stand for fiscal responsibility doesn't mean he's anti-science. I'm very pro-science and I am a Catholic. If you haven't noticed before, Catholics have no problem with evolution at all.

If Jindal didn't have a problem with science (and evolution, in particular) as it's currently taught in LA, then why did he sign the Disco Institute-inspired/written creationist education bill into law?

309 saberry0530  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:20:23pm

re: #304 pink freud

To replace Vitter, no less.

SO that would be replacing a giver with a receiver.

310 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:20:25pm

re: #274 HoosierHoops

The looks of JFK
the wisdom of Lincoln
the personality of Reagan
the diplomacy of Nixon
The courage of GWB
the flamboyant hero of Teddy R.
the warmth of FDR..
/forgive me steve for I have sinned LOL

Hoo-Hoo -

Looks - OK
Wisdom - HUH?
Personality - OK - And - NOT REAGAN'S
Diplomacy - SHOW ME
Courage - SHOW ME
Flamboyance - OK - And - T.R.'s - NOT SO SURE.
Warmth - OK - The Real FDR was NOT that Warm. Bottom Line FDR WAS a cold Calculating Statesman, i.e. Deceased Politician.
I Have Told the Truth - As I see It.

-S-

311 Afrocity  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:21:00pm

re: #298 Gearhead

Actually, Jindall answered on thing unequivocally for me lat night:

The GOP is still searching for its voice for the next election.

We'll get there, but a few more hopefuls are going to resemble Icarus over the next year or so.

Gee Obama makes one speech in 2004 and it catapults him to the presidency.
Jindal makes one speech and he is demoted to RNC convention peanut sales guy.

Amazing.

312 Ojoe  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:21:13pm

Woo Hoo, my first hat tip!

Thanks Charles.

And here is some more information; the Cascade volcanos (California, Oregon, Washington) are all stratovolcanos, and they can produce the worst eruptions, claled "Plinian" for the roman Pliny the younger, who watched Vesuvius go off.

Plinian eruptions

313 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:21:33pm

re: #307 looking closely

How about people simply not living adjacent to volcanoes?
/OK, that's crazy talk.

Not living adjacent to volcanoes, in earthquake zones, hurricane zones, places where they have dangerous blizzards, places that flood...the United States is a lovely place, but nearly all of it will try to kill you sooner or later...

314 jim in virginia  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:22:33pm

re: #252 Perplexed

Some of the lakes in Yellowstone have changed their shorelines due to the upheaval. Geysers aren't behaving properly which seems to suggest that ground water isn't going where it used to go. Might get interesting since that is one really big caldera.


There is regular seismic activity at Yellowstone. It's a hot spot; that's why there are geysers. It doesn't mean it is about to blow.

315 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:22:38pm

re: #309 saberry0530

SO that would be replacing a giver with a receiver.

She'd get a lot of votes in New Orleans that's for sure. :)

316 pat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:22:39pm

Further, all across the country we see real science being circumvented for environmentalism. In fact many of the new degree holders have it "sciences" that are more about anti-development politics than a real discipline. Stream flow measurement is a perfect example of politics pretending to be science. This really is about monitoring development top prevent the same. If there is a volcano in America that has been known to erupt in the last 5,000 years that is not being actively studied, with the exception of Alaska, I suggest you name it after your self. Because you will be the toast of the local geologic society as well as the Sierra Club.

317 pink freud  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:22:43pm

re: #309 saberry0530

SO that would be replacing a giver with a receiver.

Definitely something poetic about it all. :-)

318 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:22:50pm

re: #305 Proximate

I'm not anti-science. I keep pretty busy and can't devote a lot of time to post.

Sorry, I'll start over: Jindal never said he was against volcanic monitoring. He said that the item didn't belong in a stimulus bill. Ascribing more to his words than that is calumny... something I don't care for no matter whom it is applied to.

There were much more worthy examples in that bill to point out besides volcano monitoring. I think you miss our point that by targeting science, Jindal revealed his anti-science agenda. Surely the GOP could have articulated a better fiscal plan than what they did last night. The fact that there wasn't a clear fiscal distinction is quite troubling to me, and I'm not alone.

319 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:23:25pm

re: #287 albusteve

Rush is a boob that thinks he's more than he is...if he needs to influence people he sure did with me...in my view he's another millionaire talking pimp...I like some of his stuff but that's what he is

I have never heard rush on the radio..Don't care..
I saw him years ago on the NFL pregame show before he got fired for bad mouthing McNabb for getting special favors for being black.. For saying that Rush is dead to me...The AG says we are cowards cause we can't discuss race matters..Bullshit.. I'll talk about it any day of the week..
The reason I love sports is because we are all equal.. Sports is color blind and only the best make millions of dollars playing games...
Rush doesn't get it..

320 Proximate  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:23:37pm

re: #308 talon_262

If Jindal didn't have a problem with science (and evolution, in particular) as it's currently taught in LA, then why did he sign the Disco Institute-inspired/written creationist education bill into law?

I assume he was pandering to voters who think that way. I disagree with that. Jindal's Catholic, just as I am, he's not a creationist.

321 jim in virginia  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:24:38pm

re: #269 theheat

Actually, I live in an area closely monitored, where flooding appears to be the most likely side effect of any decent-sized eruption. No, we won't be swallowed by lava, most likely, but the flooding could impact many tens of thousands of residents along the flood path.

You in Tacoma? Tukwila?

322 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:25:01pm

re: #305 Proximate

I know his point was that it wasn't "stimulus", but to single that out- something that is pretty important and noncontroversial- in conjunction with his support of of ID, can lead many to assume he just wants to pick on the sciencey stuff. Something Republicans are loathe for. And as I finish writing this Sharmuta put it better than I could...

323 abu_garcia  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:25:05pm

re: #252 Perplexed

Some of the lakes in Yellowstone have changed their shorelines due to the upheaval. Geysers aren't behaving properly which seems to suggest that ground water isn't going where it used to go. Might get interesting since that is one really big caldera.

One of the things we can do is tell the approximate location of a seismic source. All of the recent activity is coming from above the top of the magma chamber. There is little/no sign that there is fresh magma feeding it from below.

By our best understanding, before a caldera can erupt catastrophically it must first eject a lot (probably a few cubic kilometers) of magma creating a large imbalance of stresses (or create one hell of a dome). Just by common sense one should understand that there will be a significant number of precursors. If that understanding is incorrect then the earth must suddenly vomit a vast amount of magma by some process that is completely beyond our ken - there must be an imbalance of energy large enough to overcome the resisting forces, which are significant. Possible? Anything is possible, but that one is not likely. We may have some kind of eruption in the near geologic future but a "supervolcano" will give a lot more warning than we have yet had.

324 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:25:32pm

An observation regarding Jindal and the poll done last night.

I assume the poll was open to anyone, and I did notice, quite unscientifically, that the poll results didn't seem to jibe with the comments on his speech.

Was that due to a Ron Paul effect?

325 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:25:39pm

re: #305 Proximate

I'm not anti-science. I keep pretty busy and can't devote a lot of time to post.

Sorry, I'll start over: Jindal never said he was against volcanic monitoring. He said that the item didn't belong in a stimulus bill. Ascribing more to his words than that is calumny... something I don't care for no matter whom it is applied to.

Sorry Prox..You're good people..There have been so many wack anti science trolls around lately...Sorry dude

326 Bloodnok  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:25:49pm

re: #275 Sharmuta

It saddens me to hear this from Rush. My problem wasn't Jindal's style, it was his content. Is that not a fair criticism now? It was fair to criticize McCain's.....

Tell me about it. It is very disturbing to see the level to which my side is having a hard time being critical of its shortcomings. It was a terrible performance, but you know what? It wasn't that far off from where (Using a term Thanos used upthread) Jindal's "donors" are on these subjects. 75% of the GOP would probably have given the same type of speech as Jindal. That is the problem that the right has right now.

327 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:25:53pm
328 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:26:25pm

Once again I wish to share an old story.

Faraday discovered that if you change the magnetic flux through a hoop of wire, you induce a current in the wire. This is the ultimate source of all of our electricity. Generators work because of this facet of nature.

The PM of the time, Gladstone, came to visit Faraday's laboratory.

Gladstone put on a typical politician "I don't get all of this fancy science stuff, what does it matter" stance.

He asked Faraday "Why should anyone care about this?"

Faraday responded, "Someday sir, you shall tax it!"

This is why we need politicians who know more about science and not less. If they actually had a clue, we would miss opportunities less often and we would cut out the actual bunkum that they spend pork on. Jindal couldn't reason his way out of a paper bag scientifically - his evolution stance proves that - but more to the point, picking on volcano work and not even expensive volcano work by government standards shows only that he sees science as a natural foe to be picked on. After all, he's just a good ole boy who doesn't get that fancy science stuff.

329 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:26:49pm

re: #312 Ojoe

Woo Hoo, my first hat tip!

Thanks Charles.

And here is some more information; the Cascade volcanos (California, Oregon, Washington) are all stratovolcanos, and they can produce the worst eruptions, claled "Plinian" for the roman Pliny the younger, who watched Vesuvius go off.

Plinian eruptions

Ojoe -

In your mind, yes or no, might a Plinian Eruption cause more death, destruction and havoc than Cow Farts? Just Wondering?

-S-

330 Killer Tomato  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:26:50pm

re: #311 Afrocity

There's a peanut concession?
/

331 TedStriker  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:27:58pm

re: #311 Afrocity

Gee Obama makes one speech in 2004 and it catapults him to the presidency.
Jindal makes one speech and he is demoted to RNC convention peanut sales guy.

Amazing.

It's not necessarily how he said what he said, but what he said...he had a golden opportunity to take it to Dear Leader and the Dems and wound up doing what we accused the Dems of doing all these years (which is complaining and carping about the majority party's policies without giving the voters a clear, sensical alternative to the "throw money at it and see if it sticks" policies of the Dems).

/just my opinion...

332 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:28:00pm

re: #316 pat

I'm not sure what your point is. I think real science should be defended regardless of the political motivations of those moving against it, be they from the left or the right. We don't correct the issue of the politicizing of science by allowing both sides an equal amount of polarization. We correct it by defending the very principles of the scientific method.

333 Mr Secul  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:28:09pm

re: #55 jaunte

Here's a good essay from one of the previous threads links about the variety of 'anti-science' (and the steadfast denial that anyone is anti-science) going on in the anti-evolution crowd:
[Link: blog.darwincentral.org...]

From the first comment:

“A creationist claiming to have an interest in science is like Ted Bundy claiming to have an interest in women. It may be true, but it is not a healthy interest.”
334 hazzyday  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:28:53pm

This reveals poor decision making abilities. Is he as uninformed on Intelligent Design? Or does he know that issue well enough to make the decisions he wants to make?

335 cronus  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:28:58pm

re: #320 Proximate

I assume he was pandering to voters who think that way. I disagree with that. Jindal's Catholic, just as I am, he's not a creationist.

Try again. The law Jindal signed is a stalking horse for teaching creationism in public schools. Jindal may be a catholic but his ties to the Louisiana Family Forum and the rest ot the evangelical community are ironclad. If Jindal believed in evolution as the Pope just reaffirmed it, than he had no need to sign that bill.

336 Proximate  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:28:59pm

re: #318 Sharmuta

There were much more worthy examples in that bill to point out besides volcano monitoring. I think you miss our point that by targeting science, Jindal revealed his anti-science agenda. Surely the GOP could have articulated a better fiscal plan than what they did last night. The fact that there wasn't a clear fiscal distinction is quite troubling to me, and I'm not alone.

I haven't preceived an anti-science bent from Jindal. Pandering to Creationists, that I might buy. To get to anti-science, I'd need more than these two points of data.

Everything mentioned was a worthy project to someone. But many of those items did not meet the "shovel-ready" requirements, or would produce few jobs... and that's what the bill was for.

337 Shr_Nfr  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:29:09pm

re: #267 doppelganglander

My wife loved when she read it too.

338 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:29:54pm

re: #305 Proximate

I'm not anti-science. I keep pretty busy and can't devote a lot of time to post.

Sorry, I'll start over: Jindal never said he was against volcanic monitoring. He said that the item didn't belong in a stimulus bill. Ascribing more to his words than that is calumny... something I don't care for no matter whom it is applied to.

I think the point is that this was his best shot, and he didn't elaborate. If he had he could no doubt have said that many other things could have been funded differently too. That is a technicality is it not?

339 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:30:05pm
340 pat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:30:55pm

Then understand this, Obama knows nothing about science, and everything about taxation. In fact i do not believe Obama has ever taken a science course after 10th grade, read an adult science book, and I conjecture, any SciFi save perhaps a fool like Vonnegut. I doubt that he even understands Alice In Wonderland. His thinking is as linear as Reagan's, but in the opposite direction.

341 Gearhead  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:31:01pm

re: #307 looking closely

How about people simply not living adjacent to volcanoes?
/OK, that's crazy talk.

re: #311 Afrocity

Gee Obama makes one speech in 2004 and it catapults him to the presidency.
Jindal makes one speech and he is demoted to RNC convention peanut sales guy.

Amazing.

It really is an extraordinary amount of pressure. I think the intensity of news coverage these days makes it that way.

I'm not saying Jindal can't redeem himself. He just didn't impress anyone last night. And, really, I'm not surprised. It could have been anyone, not just Jindal. The GOP is casting around for it's new thought leader. Will it be Steele? Jindal? who? The rebuttal and similar tests are just part of the process.

342 Proximate  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:31:10pm

re: #335 cronus

Try again. The law Jindal signed is a stalking horse for teaching creationism in public schools. Jindal may be a catholic but his ties to the Louisiana Family Forum and the rest ot the evangelical community are ironclad. If Jindal believed in evolution as the Pope just reaffirmed it, than he had no need to sign that bill.

Doesn't that make him a politician pandering to local voters? Like most do (almost all)?

343 hous bin pharteen  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:33:35pm

Better to bust on Jindel and forget about all the money going to teachers unions in public schools, but have not any political children enrolled in it since Jimmy Carter (who's brother was hob nobbing in Libya.)
We have The One sucking the teets of the lady behind is back on the TV screen, but no one has a problem with that? What do you want to do now? Scream at each other in day-care? Waaahhh, he ate my cookies! LEAD. FOLLOW. or get the HELL OUT OF THE WAY

344 TedStriker  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:34:12pm

re: #320 Proximate

I assume he was pandering to voters who think that way. I disagree with that. Jindal's Catholic, just as I am, he's not a creationist.

We can only judge someone by their words and deeds and, so far, Jindal's record with signing the DI education bill doesn't endear me to him.

345 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:34:40pm

re: #330 Killer Tomato

There's a peanut concession?
/

For the Dems there is. Its run by Jimmy Carter.

346 Proximate  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:34:59pm

re: #338 Naso Tang

I think the point is that this was his best shot, and he didn't elaborate. If he had he could no doubt have said that many other things could have been funded differently too. That is a technicality is it not?

How much time would it have taken to explain why each item on his list would produce few jobs, take too long, or produce little benefit? He wouldn't have had time for that. That's a lot of technicalities.

347 Afrocity  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:35:50pm

re: #341 Gearhead

It really is an extraordinary amount of pressure. I think the intensity of news coverage these days makes it that way.

I'm not saying Jindal can't redeem himself. He just didn't impress anyone last night. And, really, I'm not surprised. It could have been anyone, not just Jindal. The GOP is casting around for it's new thought leader. Will it be Steele? Jindal? who? The rebuttal and similar tests are just part of the process.

or maybe it will be Sarah Palin. Meanwhile I am not hearing Al Sharpton come after Chris Mathews for saying what he said about Jindal who is a man of color.

348 pat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:36:01pm

re: #332 Sharmuta

Yes, but I do not believe this is real science. This is light weight science designed to prove a political philosophy. This is AGW science. There is no other side. I can cite articles regarding the funding of politically correct science versus real hard science in this country, but I really don't want to. I will simply state that if you do not get the results the politicians want, you will not be funded again. That is how it works with the Feds.

349 Proximate  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:36:26pm

re: #344 talon_262

We can only judge someone by their words and deeds and, so far, Jindal's record with signing the DI education bill doesn't endear me to him.

Understood. It doesn't make him a neo-Luddite. It seems far more likely that he panders to his supporters.

350 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:37:00pm

re: #343 hous bin pharteen

Then why didn't Jindal attack that spending?

351 cronus  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:37:12pm

re: #342 Proximate

Doesn't that make him a politician pandering to local voters? Like most do (almost all)?

Most certainly -- pandering to both local and national fundamentalist groups. It's clear that he's perfectly willing to play politics with science education in order to further his political aims.

352 Promethea  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:38:02pm

re: #251 Shr_Nfr

The one in Iceland in the 1700s the Laki Volcano [Link: en.wikipedia.org...] killed off 25% of the people in Iceland and created famines as far away as Egypt

I read somewhere that dust from this volcano led to poor crops in France, which then helped precipitate the French Revolution.

353 Proximate  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:38:05pm

Love to stay and chat, but I gotta go. Be well.

354 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:39:13pm

re: #347 Afrocity

or maybe it will be Sarah Palin. Meanwhile I am not hearing Al Sharpton come after Chris Mathews for saying what he said about Jindal who is a man of color.

Afrocity -

Gov. Jindal - to the Rev. Al - IS a Man of Color - The WRONG COLOR - and MORESO - the Wrong Culture.

-S-

355 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:39:26pm

re: #347 Afrocity

or maybe it will be Sarah Palin. Meanwhile I am not hearing Al Sharpton come after Chris Mathews for saying what he said about Jindal who is a man of color.

Let's face it, Jindal is not black enough for Al Sharpton to give a damn.

Or there's no money in it.

On further thought, I believe the second explanation is more plausible.

356 Gearhead  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:39:58pm

re: #347 Afrocity

or maybe it will be Sarah Palin. Meanwhile I am not hearing Al Sharpton come after Chris Mathews for saying what he said about Jindal who is a man of color.

I missed it. What did he say?

357 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:40:23pm

Plus, Al is busy trying to make Obama into a chimp.

No sarc tag implied or used.

358 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:40:26pm

But this isn't about what the lefties are doing to science. This is about an attack on science from the right. I disagree with both, but when the focus in on what our side is doing wrong, I'm not going to point at the left and think that makes an argument. It's a fallacy.

359 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:40:38pm

re: #358 Sharmuta

Sorry- that's to Pat.

360 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:40:47pm
361 TedStriker  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:40:55pm

re: #351 cronus

Most certainly -- pandering to both local and national fundamentalist groups. It's clear that he's perfectly willing to play politics with science education in order to further his political aims.

Which would make Jindal as much of a political opportunist as Dear Leader and the Dem leadership are...

362 kynna  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:41:30pm

Volcanos = God's Cauldrons of Making.

Teach the controversy!

(I just made it up, but I think it has merit. Teach it!)

363 abu_garcia  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:41:52pm

re: #327 taxfreekiller

Any one here ever study mob actions, you know like anit war mobs and stuff, how they get out of control, feed on themselves and all that?


One of the best books I've seen is an old one, "Men in Groups", Lionel Tiger. Mc Cauley's "Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds" is good too. These has been a lot of good research lately but political correctness keeps much of it from being discussed honestly.

One thing that is really interesting is I have seen guys wax eloquent about how we get a charge from religious ceremonies and so forth, without realizing that the same thing may be going on in the brains of a lynch mob - or at least, if they realize it they're afraid to say it.

So it goes.

364 theheat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:42:11pm

re: #307 looking closely

If you look at the blast radius of Mt. St. Helens, people living even hundreds of miles away were impacted. You don't necessarily need to live next door to an active volcano to have your shit effed up in a big way.

365 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:42:56pm

The obvious joke here is, we don't need no stinkin' monitors- we can stop volcano eruptions by tossing in a few virgins. Right?

366 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:43:19pm

re: #355 OldLineTexan

Let's face it, Jindal is not black enough for Al Sharpton to give a damn.

Or there's no money in it.

On further thought, I believe the second explanation is more plausible.


OLT -

If you are saying that the Rev. Al is really about "THE CHANGE" - I heartily agree. A Little League Jesse Jackson at best.

-S-

367 Gearhead  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:43:43pm

re: #365 Sharmuta

The obvious joke here is, we don't need no stinkin' monitors- we can stop volcano eruptions by tossing in a few virgins. Right?

"Are you....Joe?"

368 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:44:15pm

re: #365 Sharmuta

The obvious joke here is, we don't need no stinkin' monitors- we can stop volcano eruptions by tossing in a few virgins. Right?

I'm no 'splodeydope, so I have no spare virgins.

369 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:44:35pm

re: #365 Sharmuta

The obvious joke here is, we don't need no stinkin' monitors- we can stop volcano eruptions by tossing in a few virgins. Right?

Heh, I made that joke in the previous Jindal thread...

Why monitor volcanoes when competing scientific theories says goat sacrifices prevent eruptions? You are all so close minded. Teach the controversy!

370 Afrocity  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:45:16pm

re: #356 Gearhead

I missed it. What did he say?

Chris Mathews made a crack at Jindal when he thought his mic was off.

If Sharpton is fighting racism then he should be more consistent. The "outsourcing" comment about Jindal was racist.

371 theheat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:45:25pm

re: #365 Sharmuta

Uh oh. I think those are on the endangered species list in some places.

372 Gus  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:45:31pm

If I were God I'd make a volcano appear in Louisiana at 2200 MDT.

//

373 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:45:54pm

re: #365 Sharmuta

The obvious joke here is, we don't need no stinkin' monitors- we can stop volcano eruptions by tossing in a few virgins. Right?

Sharmuta -

"Toss in a few Virgins" - Paraphrasing Jimmy Durante - "...Inca, Dinca, Doo..."

-S-

374 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:47:20pm

re: #372 Gus 802

If I were God I'd make a volcano appear in Louisiana at 2200 MDT.

//

If I were the Gov. Of LA. I might have have N.O. repaired years ago...

375 Max_Mike  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:48:03pm

The shrillness, childishness, herd mentality, intellectual dishonesty and cowardice of many of these comments is quite astounding.

Jindal’s support of creationism has no bearing on whether spending for ‘volcano monitoring’ should have been in this bill… IT SHOULD NOT HAVE.

If increased spending on ‘volcano monitoring’ is need that should have been part of the regular budget process and not stuck in a supposed economic recovery bill. Just because some of you think this is worthy spending it had no place in this bill… PERIOD.

People here have routinely criticized this bill for other off budget spending but now ‘volcano monitoring’ is an exception because Jindal mentioned it and you don’t like Jindal. The level of bald faced hypocrisy show by many in these comments is scary.

Shame

376 Gus  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:48:12pm

re: #374 HoosierHoops

If I were the Gov. Of LA. I might have have N.O. repaired years ago...

Not when you can keep bringing in billions of Federal aid in! ;)

377 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:48:15pm

re: #374 HoosierHoops

If I were the Gov. Of LA. I might have have N.O. repaired years ago...

Not with Chimpy McBushitler stalking around amongst the levies you wouldn't.

/

378 kynna  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:48:20pm

re: #365 Sharmuta

The obvious joke here is, we don't need no stinkin' monitors- we can stop volcano eruptions by tossing in a few virgins. Right?

Justice Souter called. He doesn't want to go in the volcano.

379 abu_garcia  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:48:23pm

re: #365 Sharmuta

The obvious joke here is, we don't need no stinkin' monitors- we can stop volcano eruptions by tossing in a few virgins. Right?

I don't know if you saw my post or not, but we really have more data than we know what to do with. I'm not saying we should cut, but there's precious little to be gained by throwing money at the problem.

380 abu_garcia  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:49:45pm

re: #375 Max_Mike

Good point.

381 Gearhead  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:49:48pm

re: #370 Afrocity

Chris Mathews made a crack at Jindal when he thought his mic was off.

If Sharpton is fighting racism then he should be more consistent. The "outsourcing" comment about Jindal was racist.

Thanks.

382 avanti  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:49:55pm

re: #348 pat

Yes, but I do not believe this is real science. This is light weight science designed to prove a political philosophy. This is AGW science. There is no other side. I can cite articles regarding the funding of politically correct science versus real hard science in this country, but I really don't want to. I will simply state that if you do not get the results the politicians want, you will not be funded again. That is how it works with the Feds.

How do you explain GW's early rejection of the global warming science he later accepted. Recall the fuss Hansen at NASA made about his

efforts

If NASA wanted funding why didn't they sway the science to make the POTUS happy.

383 Mr Secul  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:50:20pm

re: #87 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, heck, I oppose levees! God's waters should be allowed to go anywhere they darn well feel like it, without blasphemous human interference!

/

God told Noah to build an Ark not a levee!

'Natural' disasters are expressions of God's will.

Why does man insist on defying God's will?

/

384 theheat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:50:46pm

re: #370 Afrocity

Al reminds me of a black Rush Limbaugh, in a lot of ways. Every now and then he hits the nail on the head, but he's so extreme, and makes himself so unpalatable, he ends up looking like an assclown the rest of the time. In short, he never knows when to shut the hell up, and the concept of hypocrisy eludes him.

385 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:51:31pm

re: #375 Max_Mike

Shame on Jindal for such a weak reply? He should have been much stronger, if Volcano spending was the worst he could find to talk about in the stim bill he's a very dim bulb indeed.

386 Bloodnok  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:51:34pm

How is

$140,000,000, for repair, construction and restoration of facilities; equipment replacement and upgrades including stream gages, and seismic and volcano monitoring systems

throwing money at a problem?

387 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:52:55pm

re: #384 theheat

Al reminds me of a black Rush Limbaugh, in a lot of ways. Every now and then he hits the nail on the head, but he's so extreme, and makes himself so unpalatable, he ends up looking like an assclown the rest of the time. In short, he never knows when to shut the hell up, and the concept of hypocrisy eludes him.

Show me one race-hustling shakedown by Rush Limbaugh.

/sheesh

388 kynna  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:53:04pm

re: #376 Gus 802

Not when you can keep bringing in billions of Federal aid in! ;)

I may disagree quite a bit with Jindal's creationist efforts, but I haven't seen accusations of porky graft. Do tell.

Bear in mind that N.O. is no simple city to fix. It's leadership makes the New Jersey state government look competent.

If you have specific accusations levied from a credible source, please linky. Thx.

389 albusteve  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:53:05pm

re: #386 Bloodnok

How is

$140,000,000, for repair, construction and restoration of facilities; equipment replacement and upgrades including stream gages, and seismic and volcano monitoring systems

throwing money at a problem?

it isn't...Jindals boat steamed right on by...

390 abu_garcia  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:53:07pm

re: #382 avanti

If NASA wanted funding why didn't they sway the science to make the POTUS happy.

Maybe partly because the POTUS does not originate spending bills and largely because votes are traded in our congress.

391 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:55:16pm
392 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:55:24pm

re: #375 Max_Mike

GAZE

393 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:56:08pm

re: #376 Gus 802

Not when you can keep bringing in billions of Federal aid in! ;)

I didn't finish my quote..But when you heal your state bobby..Then talk on National TV..
For example...And I'm just a transplant here..but if any city in Indiana was destroyed in 2005 it would have been built bigger and better a year later..
Our Govenor Mitch Daniels (R) would have laid waste to heaven and earth to rebuilt Indiana.. Get your house in order Govenor..
/Hope reine still loves me.. *wink*

394 Gus  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:56:14pm

re: #388 kynna

I may disagree quite a bit with Jindal's creationist efforts, but I haven't seen accusations of porky graft. Do tell.

Bear in mind that N.O. is no simple city to fix. It's leadership makes the New Jersey state government look competent.

If you have specific accusations levied from a credible source, please linky. Thx.

It doesn't have to be porky graft as it were. The fact is that a great deal of Federal funding has gone into Louisiana some of which could probably be compared to "something called volcano monitoring." The amount is already in the billions and he most recently called for extended funding into Louisiana Coast fisheries.

395 pat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:56:41pm

re: #382 avanti

Because the budget is controlled by Congress. As for Hansen, he is a crank. Anyone who thinks otherwise is delusional. It would be easy to explain a few errors in math, but not 17. He is the laughingstock of real science. Which is why he went the Martyr route. I take pleasure in having coined the term Weather Clown for Hansen which has struck a note in the blogoshere.

396 SFGoth  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:56:50pm

If the GOP doesn't monitor itself, it's going to find a giant volcano erupting up it's ass.

397 Dr. Shalit  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:57:37pm

re: #387 OldLineTexan

Show me one race-hustling shakedown by Rush Limbaugh.

/sheesh

OLT - Thanks - The Rev. Al - A Little League Jesse Jackson with better James Brown Moves.

-S-

398 avanti  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:57:57pm

re: #390 abu_garcia

Maybe partly because the POTUS does not originate spending bills and largely because votes are traded in our congress.

OK, but wasn't Congress largely conservative in the early 2000's ? It would seem logical if the scientists were just interested in funding, they could fudge the science to please those in Congress and the POTUS, instead, they bitched about suppression.

399 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:58:27pm

re: #382 avanti

Good reasoning. But we both know it is hopeless...

400 pat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:58:34pm

re: #385 Thanos

And there is that. A poor staff description of a likely pork sandwich. And it does strike as weakly intellectual.

401 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:59:14pm

Here's how Jindal started out:

In Louisiana, we took a different approach. Since I became governor, we cut more than 250 earmarks from our state budget. To create jobs for our citizens, we cut taxes six times, including the largest income tax cut in the history of our state. We passed those tax cuts with bipartisan majorities.

Republicans and Democrats put aside their differences. We worked together to make sure our people could keep more of what they earn. If it can be done in Baton Rouge, surely it can be done in Washington, D.C.

This isn't rebuttal, it's a freakin stump speech for 2012 that failed miserably. Not only that but McCain's speechwriters should sue for plagiarism, half the speech was retreaded McCamp stump speeches. I was waiting for him to say "I'll reach across the aisle..."

402 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 7:59:33pm

re: #393 HoosierHoops

I didn't finish my quote..But when you heal your state bobby..Then talk on National TV..
For example...And I'm just a transplant here..but if any city in Indiana was destroyed in 2005 it would have been built bigger and better a year later..
Our Govenor Mitch Daniels (R) would have laid waste to heaven and earth to rebuilt Indiana.. Get your house in order Govenor..
/Hope reine still loves me.. *wink*

To be fair: Given the corruption and lawlessness, New Orleans is uniquely hard to rebuild. My own suggestion would be to revoke its home rule status and allow the state to run it. Then carry out a massive overhaul of the criminal justice system in that city.

403 abu_garcia  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:00:15pm

re: #386 Bloodnok

How is

$140,000,000, for repair, construction and restoration of facilities; equipment replacement and upgrades including stream gages, and seismic and volcano monitoring systems
I'm sorry, but I've dealt enough with the process to know that there is more than enough money in almost every budget to deal with real problems if the fat were cut out. The fact still remains that we have more data than we can use to conduct worthwhile analysis and make predictions.

Your only argument is the there will be a pony buried somewhere in the manure. Probably true, but that does not negate the fact that the more manure you buy the more they want to sell you.

throwing money at a problem?

404 avanti  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:00:24pm

re: #399 Basho

Good reasoning. But we both know it is hopeless...

Well two Christians in with the lions will make for a slightly longer and bloodier show. :)

405 theheat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:02:11pm

re: #387 OldLineTexan

Boy, I hope you're joking. Rush has had some really embarrassing zingers where color is concerned (try google). When I used to listen to his show, he made me cringe more than once. I don't remember the exact moment in time I had my epiphany, for lack of a better word, but it struck me odd I was listening to a corpulent, thrice-divorced, Viagra-carrying, blowhard with a prescription drug problem, dictate conservatism and morality over the airwaves to me.

Just sayin'.

406 Gus  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:02:14pm

re: #393 HoosierHoops

OK It will be interesting to see how things progress in LA regardless of Jindal's future.

407 Wendya  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:02:45pm

I was unaware that Jindal wanted an end to volcano monitoring. I was under the impression that he didn't want pork going to the USGS in the stimulus bill as it should be allocated out of the regular budget. You'd think by some of the reactions here that we are no longer monitoring volcanoes and if this stimulus bill hadn't been passed, millions of people would die.

It's amazing how no one bitches about money spent on projects they like. That makes us different from the democrats, how?

408 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:02:53pm
409 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:03:18pm

re: #393 HoosierHoops

I didn't finish my quote..But when you heal your state bobby..Then talk on National TV..
For example...And I'm just a transplant here..but if any city in Indiana was destroyed in 2005 it would have been built bigger and better a year later..
Our Govenor Mitch Daniels (R) would have laid waste to heaven and earth to rebuilt Indiana.. Get your house in order Govenor..
/Hope reine still loves me.. *wink*

Of course, and I also agree with you.

410 abu_garcia  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:03:54pm

re: #398 avanti

they bitched about suppression

"They" didn't, James Hansen (spit) did. I will not waste my time arguing about that poltroon.

411 kynna  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:04:31pm

re: #375 Max_Mike

Joined in 2007 and this is your first comment.

Um. Welcome?

412 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:05:35pm
413 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:05:36pm

re: #402 Dark_Falcon

To be fair: Given the corruption and lawlessness, New Orleans is uniquely hard to rebuild. My own suggestion would be to revoke its home rule status and allow the state to run it. Then carry out a massive overhaul of the criminal justice system in that city.

I agree with you...Just being glib..Feeling better?

414 abu_garcia  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:05:46pm

re: #403 abu_garcia
TRY AGAIN:

How is $140,000,000, for repair, construction and restoration of facilities; equipment replacement and upgrades including stream gages, and seismic and volcano monitoring systems throwing money at a problem?

I'm sorry, but I've dealt enough with the process to know that there is more than enough money in almost every budget to deal with real problems if the fat were cut out. The fact still remains that we have more data than we can use to conduct worthwhile analysis and make predictions.

Your only argument is the there will be a pony buried somewhere in the manure. Probably true, but that does not negate the fact that the more manure you buy the more they want to sell you.

PIMF

415 avanti  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:06:04pm

re: #404 avanti

Well two Christians in with the lions will make for a slightly longer and bloodier show. :)

Oh goody taxfreekiller and his automatic ding dong machine has arrived. Maybe he'll join in the discussion at some point.

416 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:06:05pm

re: #407 Wendya

It was a calculated swipe at science, and it was a calculated swipe at the region of his most likely opponent in 2012, Sarah Palin.

Stop it, we aren't drinking kool aid this season.

417 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:06:12pm

re: #375 Max_Mike

The shrillness, childishness, herd mentality, intellectual dishonesty and cowardice of many of these comments is quite astounding.

Nonsense! There is nothing cowardly at telling one of our own that he was out of line- he made a comment that very much looked as though he's anti-science and he should be able to bear our criticisms. What is dishonest, childish and cowardly is ignoring the the anti-science agenda of a portion of the GOP, and how it's affecting our perception with the electorate. By attacking this portion of the stimulus instead of much more worthy targets, Jindal has confirmed our suspicions of anti-science pandering, and offered nothing as far as a real and clear fiscal message with an alternative solution.

So I feel it fell wrong in two ways, it was anti-science, and it wasn't pro-fiscal solutions. Just whining and pandering. I expect better from my party, yet I'm the coward? I have not only defended science in this thread, I actually have mentioned better fiscally conservative points that could have been made last night, but weren't. It was a poor speech that did nothing to offer a real alternative to the wider electorate as to why we're the party that should be trusted with this issue.

418 abu_garcia  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:07:27pm

re: #407 Wendya
Another good point.

419 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:08:28pm
420 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:10:27pm

Here's another line, this time stolen from Palin's stump speeches:

In the end, it comes down to an honest and fundamental disagreement about the proper role of government. We oppose the national Democratic view that says the way to strengthen our country is to increase dependence on government. We believe the way to strengthen our country is to restrain spending in Washington, to empower individuals and small businesses to grow our economy and create jobs.

He's a typical politician, and the monied handlers pour in what they want -- and we know who's funding him.

421 albusteve  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:10:28pm

re: #415 avanti

Oh goody taxfreekiller and his automatic ding dong machine has arrived. Maybe he'll join in the discussion at some point.

he is never far away...pay attention

422 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:10:43pm

re: #409 reine.de.tout

Of course, and I also agree with you.

Love ya Sis..
I need to talk you via email soon..It's cookbook sales biz..

423 avanti  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:10:54pm

re: #410 abu_garcia

"They" didn't, James Hansen (spit) did. I will not waste my time arguing about that poltroon.

OK forget Hansen and address my main question. Assuming the scientists at NASA, NOAA, EPA and the rest are money and grant hungry guys that are involved in a conspiracy to fake the science, why fake it to piss off those that fund them ?

424 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:10:55pm

re: #413 HoosierHoops

I agree with you...Just being glib..Feeling better?

DayQuil does help with a sore throat but it's still with me. I hope it goes away, since if it doesn't by morning, I may need to call off from work. I work retail and if I'm contagious I cannot go to work in good conscience. Hopefully it'll be gone by morning.

425 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:11:23pm

re: #422 HoosierHoops

Love ya Sis..
I need to talk you via email soon..It's cookbook sales biz..

I'm awake now.

426 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:11:59pm
427 abu_garcia  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:12:18pm

re: #393 HoosierHoops

Get your house in order Govenor.

Spoken like a man who doesn't know much about the "Big Easy". If that place could be gotten "in order" they never would have been flooded in the first place - at least not to the extent it was.

428 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:14:44pm
429 avanti  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:14:47pm

re: #421 albusteve

he is never far away...pay attention

I wish Charles could just allow him to do a few 100 at a time, so much work for him doing one at a time.

430 kynna  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:15:03pm

re: #423 avanti

OK forget Hansen and address my main question. Assuming the scientists at NASA, NOAA, EPA and the rest are money and grant hungry guys that are involved in a conspiracy to fake the science, why fake it to piss off those that fund them ?

Because the media will tout their every claim as gospel and the Republicans in congress haven't had balls since the 1900's?

431 nyc redneck  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:15:26pm

re: #405 theheat

Boy, I hope you're joking. Rush has had some really embarrassing zingers where color is concerned (try google). When I used to listen to his show, he made me cringe more than once. I don't remember the exact moment in time I had my epiphany, for lack of a better word, but it struck me odd I was listening to a corpulent, thrice-divorced, Viagra-carrying, blowhard with a prescription drug problem, dictate conservatism and morality over the airwaves to me.

Just sayin'.

sharpton is a shakedown bastard who would do anything and say anything to better himself at the expense of his country.
rush is pro america, first and foremost. that's why he is successful.

432 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:15:27pm

re: #426 taxfreekiller

If the Democrats are so fine and Eric Holder is so into human rights, why does the justice dept. call the kidnapping of illegals in Az..."hostage takings", is it that these useful wage slave votes are not up to the level of the good thinking liberals in the "O' hole administration?

the reports are on the Justice Dept. web site,
[Link: www.firstgov.com...]

My question is: What is Joe Arpaio going to do about it? He and J.D. Hayworth have championed the "broken windows" theory. Now they must put it into practice and crack down on these murderous scum. This is Arpaio's great test. I pray he passes it.

433 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:15:33pm

re: #407 Wendya

It's amazing how no one bitches about money spent on projects they like. That makes us different from the democrats, how?

I've bitched about it. I think it's a fundamental issue on how government spends it's money, and I don't pick and choose the programs, because it's the very foundation I attack.

It is the way government has established the means of how they fund and spend. Examples- baseline budgeting, programs having to spend every dime in order to assure the same level or increases of funding the next year or face budget cuts, programs that overlap each other, etc. These are real fiscal issues in Washington and various states. The problem is not where government spends our money per se, it's the how.

I cannot be the only person in this country who thinks that spending/funding reform is fundamental. Where is the party on this? What did I hear last night that would convince me that this sort of real reform is up and coming in our party's agenda? Nothing.

434 pat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:15:51pm

re: #365 Sharmuta

Joe And The Volcano.

435 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:15:53pm

my nic is blue..just ping me tonight and thursday I'll email you. we gonna be selling us some cookbooks sis

436 Wendya  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:16:58pm

re: #416 Thanos

It was a calculated swipe at science, and it was a calculated swipe at the region of his most likely opponent in 2012, Sarah Palin.

Stop it, we aren't drinking kool aid this season.

You have got to be kidding.

Sorry, but I'm not going to behave like some stupid, jumped up, moonbat leftist and run around like my hair were on fire screaming about those evil Christians trying to KILL SCIENCE!

This is about a trillion dollar PORK bill that has been rammed down our throats. Unless you can point out any vote from Jindal when he was in the house of representatives that shows he wanted to eliminate the USGS, you have drank the kook aid.

437 A Man for all Seasons  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:19:22pm

re: #427 abu_garcia

Spoken like a man who doesn't know much about the "Big Easy". If that place could be gotten "in order" they never would have been flooded in the first place - at least not to the extent it was.

No..you are wrong..I know nothing about the big easy..except in the movies..
I shouldn't have spoke...I just know what most great leaders would do under fire..

438 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:19:48pm
439 Sheepdogess  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:20:23pm

re: #436 Wendya

An up-ding and a thank you.

440 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:22:03pm
441 Macker  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:22:18pm

re: #408 Iron Fist

No, but he will still have his rectum, and that's where the 72 virgin demons come in with their anvil-shaped genitalia and proceed to disembowel him!

442 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:22:50pm

re: #423 avanti

Eh... forget the point. If it isn't one crooked organization ruining everyone's fun with facts it's another.

443 theheat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:23:18pm

re: #431 nyc redneck

Rush is first and foremost imflammatory - the same as any shock jock. It gets him ears, eyeballs, and lucrative contracts. And, as far as being pro America, just how is backing socons who will lose elections and making embarrassing remarks helping America?

444 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:24:44pm
445 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:24:45pm

re: #435 HoosierHoops

my nic is blue..just ping me tonight and thursday I'll email you. we gonna be selling us some cookbooks sis

check your e-mails.

446 avanti  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:24:57pm

re: #430 kynna

Because the media will tout their every claim as gospel and the Republicans in congress haven't had balls since the 1900's?

OK, I don't buy that. I don't get how we can agree that being anti science is counter to the GOP's interests, yet some think that being anti science on this issue is just peachy.
Could we not find a middle ground that would go something like this :
The earth is warming, we know CO2 increases warming and we know levels are increasing.
We don't know how big a effect man is, nor how much money and effort to put in solving the C02 increase.
We also know that cutting back on our use of fossil fuels is a good thing, and will also reduce CO2 levels as a bonus, so it's a win win deal.

447 theheat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:25:36pm

re: #321 jim in virginia

South of there.

448 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:26:31pm
449 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:27:29pm

re: #446 avanti

That makes too much sense =)

BTW... I haven't spoken directly to you in a while but I've noticed your karma being decimated and a few members seem to have an active grudge against you (and I don't mean tfk, I mean some of the seemingly more levelheaded ones).

450 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:27:54pm

re: #449 Basho

Whoops, my point is: What happened?

451 Gus  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:28:20pm

re: #448 taxfreekiller

Tuson Az. is run by Democrats and big construction companies who both feed off the illegals, one for fraud votes for power, the other for the cheap slave wages.

America has become a dead lie walking there in that part of Az.

Democratic Canibals!

Quick, round up the Exorcism Posse (tm)!

////

452 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:28:56pm

re: #405 theheat

Boy, I hope you're joking. Rush has had some really embarrassing zingers where color is concerned (try google). When I used to listen to his show, he made me cringe more than once. I don't remember the exact moment in time I had my epiphany, for lack of a better word, but it struck me odd I was listening to a corpulent, thrice-divorced, Viagra-carrying, blowhard with a prescription drug problem, dictate conservatism and morality over the airwaves to me.

Just sayin'.

Did you understand what I wrote, vis-a-vis Rush and Al Sharpton?

453 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:29:31pm
454 Ben Hur  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:29:59pm

And the Lord went before them by day in a pillar of cloud,guiding them on their way; and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light: so that they were able to go on day and night:

Exodus 13:22

455 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:30:22pm

re: #436 Wendya

Exactly. It's a trillion dollar bill, his debut on national stage, and he singles out a paltry public works miniscule part of it. He picks the part that helps research, and he picks the part that's in his REPUBLICAN opponent's turf. He couldn't have found something sillier and larger in Harry Reid's or Nancy Pelosi's state? Either he's a coward and unwilling to brace the real source of the problems, DEMS in Congress, or he's got an agenda.

Now you go figure out which it is.

456 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:31:42pm
457 avanti  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:33:38pm

re: #449 Basho

That makes too much sense =)

BTW... I haven't spoken directly to you in a while but I've noticed your karma being decimated and a few members seem to have an active grudge against you (and I don't mean tfk, I mean some of the seemingly more levelheaded ones).

Yea, it took a big downturn. I'm counting on a minus 1000 by the ides of March. :) It usually takes a big dump when the members are particularly pissed off at Obama, and I get that.

458 Wendya  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:33:49pm

re: #455 Thanos


Now you go figure out which it is.

I think he was unprepared and he assumed his audience was too stupid to understand why funding agencies through the stimulus bill was wrong. He picked an item that has nothing to do with stimulating the economy but he didn't follow up on why it and the rest of the pork was criminally wrong.

That angers me but I've yet to see a politician that believed they were not far smarter than the "little people".

459 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:34:44pm

re: #458 Wendya

So why did he pick that item instead of one that would have shone the light on the Dem corruption? Why?

460 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:34:47pm

re: #346 Proximate

How much time would it have taken to explain why each item on his list would produce few jobs, take too long, or produce little benefit? He wouldn't have had time for that. That's a lot of technicalities.

Of course he couldn't. That doesn't change the fact that he sounded like a little whiner standing on the point he did make. No offense but you sound like you are making excuses for him, rather than supporting.

461 abu_garcia  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:34:47pm

re: #423 avanti

OK forget Hansen and address my main question. Assuming the scientists at NASA, NOAA, EPA and the rest are money and grant hungry guys that are involved in a conspiracy to fake the science, why fake it to piss off those that fund them ?


First, I don't buy your argument that the congress was "in control" of conservatives. Second, the congress (right or left) is not made up of a bunch of altruistic searchers for truth, but of ambitious men who gain by passing out goodies to constituents of all stripes. As Bob Dylan said in "Oxford Town", "somebody better investigate soon". They love and live by investigations.

Not too many in the congress are "pissed off". Their main concern is getting re-elected, which has little to do with taking sides and much to do with stroking everybody.

As far as their "faking the science" you and I have a very different opinion of "scientists". Granted there are scientists (no scare quotes) out there, but the public hears very little of them and does not understand what they hear.

Calling climate models "science" is a bit of a joke in itself.

why fake it to piss off those that fund them

The politics of James Hansen and his ilk are obviously more important to them than science, if it surprises you that there are such people, you have a lot to learn.

BTW, I am a believer that there are "limits to growth" (even though I know that book was based on models also) which is anathema to many around here. There is sound reason to believe that there may be some positive atmospheric thermal input from CO2. Catastrophic global warming is simply not supported.

There was a New Yorker cartoon back in the '60s that caught my attention. There were two brass hats sitting at a cocktail table and one said to the other "War is nature's way!" More truth there than people want to accept.

AGW is just another ghost dance. People see the future and cannot face it, so they dance.

462 Sharmuta  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:34:47pm

re: #433 Sharmuta

Well then, perhaps I am. Perhaps I'm the only republican who thinks the real fiscal issue we should focus on is spending reform. Regardless, I still didn't hear any sort of real alternatives on fiscal policy last night and nobody seems to want to address that.

463 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:35:15pm
464 nyc redneck  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:35:26pm

re: #443 theheat

Rush is first and foremost imflammatory - the same as any shock jock. It gets him ears, eyeballs, and lucrative contracts. And, as far as being pro America, just how is backing socons who will lose elections and making embarrassing remarks helping America?

nothing inflammatory abt. rush, unless you're a lib.
you would really take O over jindal?
if it came down to that?
O wants to destroy EVERYTHING abt. america.
jindal is misguided on science, but at last he would protect our country and we could have the opportunity to address the issue.

465 Wendya  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:35:46pm

re: #449 Basho

I've noticed your karma being decimated and a few members seem to have an active grudge against you (and I don't mean tfk, I mean some of the seemingly more levelheaded ones).

This coming from a member who spends more time dinging people down than actually replying to their comments....

Uh-huh.

466 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:36:39pm

Why did he stupidly pick an item that paints him as a hypocrite? Don't think you can't find something that benefits his region in that bill, because you most assuredly can.

467 Dark_Falcon  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:37:33pm

re: #457 avanti

Yea, it took a big downturn. I'm counting on a minus 1000 by the ides of March. :) It usually takes a big dump when the members are particularly pissed off at Obama, and I get that.

Well, have an upding from me to make up for it. :)

468 Wendya  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:38:02pm

re: #459 Thanos

So why did he pick that item instead of one that would have shone the light on the Dem corruption? Why?

I think it all boils down to that "I'm smarter than you are" attitude and he assumes his listeners will say... hell yeah! Why monitor volcanoes when unemployment is so high! Believe me, I have no love for politicians of either party but as long as people vote based on what they feel rather than what they know, we're all screwed.

469 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:39:02pm
470 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:40:25pm

re: #465 Wendya

This coming from a member who spends more time dinging people down than actually replying to their comments....

Uh-huh.

Yeah. More upding to downding ratio is probably 12 to 1. And I don't reply to you because you told me to "Fuck off". So, well, fuck off.

471 Randall Gross  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:40:39pm

re: #468 Wendya

I think it all boils down to that "I'm smarter than you are" attitude and he assumes his listeners will say... hell yeah! Why monitor volcanoes when unemployment is so high! Believe me, I have no love for politicians of either party but as long as people vote based on what they feel rather than what they know, we're all screwed.

Yes, and the populist Republicans have used that bit for so many years that the average person out there considers the Republicans to be the anti-science party... and as the last two elections attest, the liberals have stolen the future from us due to that attitude.

472 Gretchen  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:40:40pm

Here's an interesting article: [Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

The most surprising part is that the article claims that 2/3rds of Americans want creationism taught along side evolution. So claims that this radical pro-Creationist view is going to put off voters isn't correct. I'd be willing to bet the remaining 33% wouldn't vote for a Republican if Obama put an (R) after his name.

This might be an issue lots of LGFers are interested in this topic, but at the end of the day if Jindal ran against Obama, Biden, Kerry, Gore or Hillary who would you vote for? I think it is a bit extreme - but then again I think making mentioning creationism by teachers off limits is extreme given the amount of PC crap and distortions kids are taught every day.

473 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:40:41pm

re: #470 Basho

more = my

474 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:41:13pm

re: #469 taxfreekiller

Al Gore, climate change, global warming by man is a crock of shit, Al Gore knows this, hell the loon from NASA knows it also, they are just hacks, hacking.
In fact on a thread about volcano's should be the place where the facts real clear, it being they are the one of the things of the natural cycle of the earths cooling and heating, but not, its what some political hack says on the way to collect a check.
History dust pre-packaged by themselves.

You really need to chill a little about the global warming. I hate to tell you, but it really is real. I am a physicist. I am not a hack and I don't like being called a hack.

475 reine.de.tout  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:42:24pm

re: #458 Wendya

I think he was unprepared and he assumed his audience was too stupid to understand why funding agencies through the stimulus bill was wrong. He picked an item that has nothing to do with stimulating the economy but he didn't follow up on why it and the rest of the pork was criminally wrong.

That angers me but I've yet to see a politician that believed they were not far smarter than the "little people".

I have to say I agree with you.
And I agree he was totally unprepared for that follow-up last night.

476 abu_garcia  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:43:45pm

re: #437 HoosierHoops

No..you are wrong..I know nothing about the big easy..except in the movies..
I shouldn't have spoke...I just know what most great leaders would do under fire..

Errmm, when you say you don't know much about the "Big Easy" you are saying I am right.

But anyway, most great leaders are made by great followers. If you know some "great leader" looking for a job send him down to N'awlins. They'll keep him busy.

477 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:43:56pm
478 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:45:54pm
479 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:46:49pm

Basho:
Registered since: Jul 22, 2008 at 4:33 pm
No. of comments posted: 1,549
Wendya:
Registered since: Dec 22, 2006 at 4:02 pm
No. of comments posted: 1,480

Man look at me, I got nothing to say at all...

480 [deleted]  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:49:11pm
481 avanti  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:49:34pm

re: #463 Iron Fist

And I'm still waiting on your answer about how humans driving SUVs ended the last Ice Age. And what the constant temperature of the earth is, and why.

CO2 is not the only factor that determines long term climate. Solar output and other factors can effect it. The science does show the earths climate has been remarkably stable for at least 1000 years at a world wide level.
We know a global warming period started about a 100 years ago at the same times C02 levels started rising.
Is it possible that there is some undiscovered mechanism is causing it happening coincidentally with the CO2 increase, of course, but no such mechanism has been found..

482 avanti  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:51:15pm

re: #467 Dark_Falcon

Well, have an upding from me to make up for it. :)

Here's a beer for your effort, but you are just bailing the ocean with a spoon.:)

483 avanti  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:52:01pm

re: #480 taxfreekiller

hob goblin science

Boo !

484 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:54:52pm

re: #483 avanti

Haha!
Don't anger the goblins. They may send the evil commies from NASA after you.

485 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:55:10pm

OK, now that we're done "proving" anthropogenic global warming, how about math.

If a maglev train in Shanghai costs USD 1.3bn for 19 miles, how many miles can be constructed in Nevada for USD 8bn?

486 tchad  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:55:40pm

I first saw "$140 million for volcano monitoring" mentioned in a Jonah Goldberg post on National Review Online that appeared Feb. 15.

Jindal probably chose to mention this funding for the same reason it caught Goldberg's attention: It is glaringly obvious that providing funds for volcano monitoring will not help revive the American economy. The volcano monitoring story could have provided an easily understood example of how this spending bill will not accomplish its intended task.

However, Jindal failed to use it that way. Instead he stupidly referred to volcano monitoring as "wasteful spending," which it probably is not. He also stupidly failed to get his facts straight, since not all the $140 million is intended for volcano monitoring.

Still, to interpret his statement as proof that "Jindal opposes volcano monitoring" or "Jindal is anti-science" seems quite a stretch to me. It was certainly sloppy speechwriting, but that is probably all it was.

I don't mind seeing Jindal criticized for pandering to creationists, but, you know, it's not always about creationism...

487 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:55:49pm

re: #484 Basho

Haha!
Don't anger the goblins. They may send the evil commies from NASA after you.

I know some real cranky old bastards at Johnson Space Center.

488 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:56:46pm

re: #485 OldLineTexan

OK, now that we're done "proving" anthropogenic global warming, how about math.

If a maglev train in Shanghai costs USD 1.3bn for 19 miles, how many miles can be constructed in Nevada for USD 8bn?

Trick question! America will never update it's railway infrastructure. Too cost-inefficient.

489 abu_garcia  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:56:53pm

re: #481 avanti

The science does show the earths climate has been remarkably stable for at least 1000 years at a world wide level.

I notice you put the "world wide level" in there. The catastrophic AGW proponents have tried to argue that the Medieval Warm Period was isolated to europe or the Northern Hemisphere.

That dog won't hunt.

490 avanti  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:56:59pm

re: #474 LudwigVanQuixote

You really need to chill a little about the global warming. I hate to tell you, but it really is real. I am a physicist. I am not a hack and I don't like being called a hack.

Oh goody, more lion meat. :) BTW,what kind of physics ?
Please don't tell me it's small particle physics, or I'll have questions that I'll be too dumb to understand the answers.

491 theheat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:58:22pm

re: #452 OldLineTexan

Let's say I was confirming sarcasm, that's all.

492 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:59:48pm

re: #486 tchad

Probably the smartest ontopic comment I've seen. It was just sloppy, but it made for an easy target to point out Jindal's anti-science stances.

A little better preparation and he could have avoided it.

493 avanti  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 8:59:52pm

re: #485 OldLineTexan

OK, now that we're done "proving" anthropogenic global warming, how about math.

If a maglev train in Shanghai costs USD 1.3bn for 19 miles, how many miles can be constructed in Nevada for USD 8bn?

Sorry, didn't mean to forget about you. The link I posted said 15 billion. Building across the desert might be cheaper then the one in China was. Your regular train option was a third of that if I recall.

494 nyc redneck  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:01:24pm

re: #485 OldLineTexan

OK, now that we're done "proving" anthropogenic global warming, how about math.

If a maglev train in Shanghai costs USD 1.3bn for 19 miles, how many miles can be constructed in Nevada for USD 8bn?

do you have a geometry question or could i just paint the scenery for the ad brochure.

495 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:01:33pm

re: #488 Basho

Trick question! America will never update it's railway infrastructure. Too cost-inefficient.

We don't have any maglev infrastructure, so it's OK.

/

496 avanti  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:01:39pm

re: #484 Basho

Haha!
Don't anger the goblins. They may send the evil commies from NASA after you.

No problem, taxfreekiller thinks they will just say "Greeting Comrade Avanti"

497 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:02:02pm

re: #493 avanti

Sorry, didn't mean to forget about you. The link I posted said 15 billion. Building across the desert might be cheaper then the one in China was. Your regular train option was a third of that if I recall.

Shanghai - coastal prairie. Just sayin'.

498 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:03:07pm

re: #493 avanti

Sorry, didn't mean to forget about you. The link I posted said 15 billion. Building across the desert might be cheaper then the one in China was. Your regular train option was a third of that if I recall.

OK, I'll go USD 15bn. Will that even get me to Needles, much less Orange County?

499 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:03:32pm

re: #463 Iron Fist

Given that a lot of the evidence points to CO2 levels lagging temperature increases it seems at best premature to say that CO2 causes temperatures to increase.

Reading too much into a graph like that can be dangerous, as I'm sure you would agree. There can be, and most certainly are, more than one factor in climate change, and there can be "tipping points" involved that swap out different factors at different time; and the base historical data itself can be more accurate for one factor (eg temperature) than for another (eg CO2).

The graph in question suggests that there are fewer CO2 measurements for a start, due to the more apparent smoothing of the graph.

However it does appear that the "lag" you mention is only significantly pronounced when temperatures are decreasing, not when they are increasing, suggesting more than one factor at play.

This by itself does not appear to prove anything beyond the correlation and one really needs to argue the science in the present rather than the estimated history, IMHO.

500 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:03:41pm

re: #498 OldLineTexan

OK, I'll go USD 15bn. Will that even get me to Needles, much less Orange County?

Damn, that first sentence is so Obama-ish.

/

501 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:04:12pm

re: #493 avanti

Err... all things consider equal, I think the answer is a little less than 35 miles.

502 theheat  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:05:21pm

re: #464 nyc redneck

OMG, have you even read or remembered half the inflammatory stuff he's ever said? Nearly everything he says is to stir the pot, or phrased in a way to evoke a reaction. I don't even think he believes half of what he says, he just wants to get a desired effect. It's the same with any shock jock. And the guy has hypocrisy wrapped up in a bow. He did that to himself.

And I don't think the country needs to stoop to Jindal's level to outdo Obama, so that's not a realistic choice (J or O). Someone better will come along.

503 avanti  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:05:49pm

re: #489 abu_garcia

I notice you put the "world wide level" in there. The catastrophic AGW proponents have tried to argue that the Medieval Warm Period was isolated to europe or the Northern Hemisphere.

That dog won't hunt.

Yea, that comes from the Commies at

NOAA where the data shows no global decrease in temps.

504 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:06:58pm

re: #498 OldLineTexan

Ah! Now I have to redo my calc...

505 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:08:15pm

re: #504 Basho

Ah! Now I have to redo my calc...

Hey, it's like a bailout stimulus fire sale! Money for everyone!

506 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:09:26pm

36 and a third miles? That can't be right...

507 Wendya  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:09:36pm

re: #479 Basho

Man look at me, I got nothing to say at all...

re: #470 Basho

Yeah. More upding to downding ratio is probably 12 to 1.

Except on AGW related threads where you scurry around and downding anyone who attempts to refute your chosen theory. It sort of reminds me of the stealth down dingers on the creationsm threads.

508 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:09:47pm

re: #501 Basho

Err... all things consider equal, I think the answer is a little less than 35 miles.

I do not think we are going to get to LA at this rate ...

509 abu_garcia  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:11:03pm

re: #499 Naso Tang

there can be "tipping points"

"There can be", but the fact that the earth has not already gone through the proposed catastrophes when CO2 was far higher than can be achieved by burning all known fossil fuels is a powerful argument that the feedbacks are negative, not positive and the "tipping points" are not out there.

510 funky chicken  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:11:11pm

re: #471 Thanos

Yes, and the populist Republicans have used that bit for so many years that the average person out there considers the Republicans to be the anti-science party... and as the last two elections attest, the liberals have stolen the future from us due to that attitude.

+1

my dinger is broken again...so sad

511 Syrah  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:11:49pm

My company's CEO announced that there will be layoffs next month. He also said that most of the company will continue with reduced work hours.

The beatings will continue until morale improves

On top of all of that, the weather forecast for tomorrow is for snow.

512 abu_garcia  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:12:11pm

re: #503 avanti

Yea, that comes from the Commies at

NOAA where the data shows no global decrease in temps.


I agree, Susan Solomon is a Commie.

513 avanti  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:13:33pm

re: #508 OldLineTexan

I do not think we are going to get to LA at this rate ...

Like I said, we are comparing mostly "throw down the tracks" desert to who knows what in China. I'm sure you'll agree that tracks in major urban areas can't be directly compared to the Vegas run. Having said that, will I trust that it won't go over budget if built, hell no.

514 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:13:43pm

re: #507 Wendya

Yeah... look at the last specific GW thread. Count how many comments I put, doing nothing but posting links to educate people... Hold it, I'll do it myself:

23 comments in the George Will thread.

515 nyc redneck  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:13:56pm

re: #502 theheat

OMG, have you even read or remembered half the inflammatory stuff he's ever said? Nearly everything he says is to stir the pot, or phrased in a way to evoke a reaction. I don't even think he believes half of what he says, he just wants to get a desired effect. It's the same with any shock jock. And the guy has hypocrisy wrapped up in a bow. He did that to himself.

And I don't think the country needs to stoop to Jindal's level to outdo Obama, so that's not a realistic choice (J or O). Someone better will come along.

i like rush. i listen to him when ever i can.
he's smart. and i love his his sense of humor.

he is backing jindal over O.
if this is what we are looking at, i agree w/ him 100%.

516 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:15:10pm

re: #514 Basho

Well, mostly adding links.

And again, last time when I responded to you, you told me to "Fuck off".

517 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:16:20pm

re: #513 avanti

Like I said, we are comparing mostly "throw down the tracks" desert to who knows what in China. I'm sure you'll agree that tracks in major urban areas can't be directly compared to the Vegas run. Having said that, will I trust that it won't go over budget if built, hell no.

OK. The Shanghai train pretty much leaves a "new" section of town and parallels a freeway across fairly empty turf, but Nevada might be a few million dollars per mile cheaper. We still ain't getting to LA on a MAGLEV on 15 billion, even with the standard Federal overrun. ;)

518 OldLineTexan  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:17:14pm

re: #515 nyc redneck

i like rush. i listen to him when ever i can.
he's smart. and i love his his sense of humor.

he is backing jindal over O.
if this is what we are looking at, i agree w/ him 100%.

I have seen no evidence offered of Rush jacking anyone up for money over race like Al Sharpton does.

519 Achilles Tang  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:17:33pm

re: #509 abu_garcia

"There can be", but the fact that the earth has not already gone through the proposed catastrophes when CO2 was far higher than can be achieved by burning all known fossil fuels is a powerful argument that the feedbacks are negative, not positive and the "tipping points" are not out there.

Catastrophes are relative. They have occurred to many, now extinct, life forms. I don't know how you want to define them, but I'll just take a few degrees change within one or two human generations.

Tipping points are just whatever happened, negative feedback or not, at the main "points" on the graph that was linked to.

520 avanti  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:18:11pm

re: #509 abu_garcia

"There can be", but the fact that the earth has not already gone through the proposed catastrophes when CO2 was far higher than can be achieved by burning all known fossil fuels is a powerful argument that the feedbacks are negative, not positive and the "tipping points" are not out there.

It's more then CO2 involved.

"Although the exact causes for ice ages, and the glacial cycles within them, have not been proven, they are most likely the result of a complicated dynamic interaction between such things as solar output, distance of the Earth from the sun, position and height of the continents, ocean circulation, and the composition of the atmosphere."

link

521 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:21:24pm

re: #516 Basho

Eleven out of twenty three comments were nothing but useful links, on a specific AGW thread. On these threads, it's always the anti-AGW that start the argument.

522 Basho  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:36:54pm

re: #521 Basho

And since I had some energy to spare, I went through the first 140 comments of the George Will thread... While I made quite a few downdings, there were double the amount of updings.

And I'm not just pointing this out for you. There are others calling me a stealth downdinger because I dinged down a post that not only I didn't agree with but also didn't find worth responding to.

And I've been called a stealth troll.

All because I dislike the anti-science wing of the GOP.

The numbers are on my side.
"You're entitled to your own opinion but not your own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

And in conclusion: Fuck off.

523 abu_garcia  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:53:11pm

re: #519 Naso Tang
Only problem is that you need positive feedback to get your "few degrees change", and, IMO, the data does not support that hypothesis.

It's past my bedtime. I tried to write a reasoned post, but it's time to say goodnight.

Enjoy the dance.

Goodnight.

524 cousin it  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 9:59:00pm

I've been a long time reader of LGF and have pretty much ignored the Creationism vs Science discussions because there is a lot of bias on both sides. Frankly I think the Creationism argument belongs at the state level where it is (is not) being implemented...and in this particular case, "the devil really is in the details" of how the states go about putting it in. The attacks on Jindal poisoned many of the readers here and it shows up "in spades" in these comments.

I was pleased to find a few level heads at LGF voice reasonable comments regarding Jindal's intentions...I certainly didn't see his comments as being anti-science but rather as a very good example of wasteful spending in a supposedly critical and very urgent Economic Stimulus Bill...it really doesn't matter that this bill has many, many such examples.

I felt Jindal was speaking more to the "average American" (not to the average Lizardoid) who wouldn't associate Volcano Monitoring funds with an economic stimulus package of such urgency it had to be passed before it was even read by those voting on it.

Like many I would have expected all of the funds to be directly associated to creating jobs and increased consumer spending. Sure 140KK is a drop in a very large bucket but why was it included and who included it? It sounds like to me it was included by a Member of Congress whose vote was needed and because these funds were denied in previous bills.

But I am very disappointed in the all out attacks on Bobby Jindal because of his faith rather than recognizing the absurdity of including any funds in a Stimulus Package for volcano monitoring...

525 Jerusalemyte  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 10:00:25pm

Important information: Total Number of Volcanoes (Active and Non-Active) in Louisiana = 0 (Zero).

Why would the gov. of a state which is 99.9% sediment care about Volcanoes?

526 Almost_Honest  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 10:04:56pm

Why should anyone care about monitoring those pesky volcanoes that small Redoubt thing up in Alaska can't matter unless you were on board an international aircraft flying from Amsterdam to Anchorage in 1989 when it encountered a volcanic ash cloud that shut all 4 engines down. That eruption resulted in a nearly catastrophic encounter between airborne ash and the Boeing 747 jet aircraft. Redoubt may blow again with equal or greater force but who cares. If you are interested you can check on it here:
Alaska Volcano Observatory
Of course there is that pesky volcano Cumbre Vieja. Geologists are concerned that an unstable flank of the Cumbre Vieja volcano on the island of La Palma in the Canaries is in danger of sliding into the sea.
If shaken loose by a volcanic eruption, the huge slab of rock would send a tsunami more than 150 metres high racing across the Atlantic at the speed of a jumbo jet.
Within three hours, the wave would swamp the west coast of Africa, within five hours it would reach southern England and within 12 it would hit America's east coast.
New York, Washington, Boston and Miami would be hit by successive waves abound 20 metres high. Tens of millions of people could die.
Just another pesky volcano, who cares.

527 burntjohn  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 10:06:37pm

Bobby Jindal is a prime example of why the GOP is in the crapper.

528 cousin it  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 10:19:39pm

re: #517 OldLineTexan

OK. The Shanghai train pretty much leaves a "new" section of town and parallels a freeway across fairly empty turf, but Nevada might be a few million dollars per mile cheaper. We still ain't getting to LA on a MAGLEV on 15 billion, even with the standard Federal overrun. ;)

The only reason the Shanghai train was built was because it is the world's fastest train and brought prestige to China. At ~6 US$ per person, one way, it will never, ever come close to break even operation, let alone recovery of any construction costs. I've been on it and I can tell, it doesn't operate at full capacity even during peak periods. Total time is about 6 minutes, terminal to terminal.

Same problem for the boondoggle LA-LV run...if a regular train can't make money (Desert Wind) on this route and was discontinued due to low ridership, how in the world will a really expensive one make any money? The "money pit" won't stop after construction...let there be no doubt, such a train will be a black hole for taxpayer funds for many years to come...

529 Salamantis  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 10:21:57pm

re: #472 Gretchen

Here's an interesting article: [Link: www.cbsnews.com...]

The most surprising part is that the article claims that 2/3rds of Americans want creationism taught along side evolution. So claims that this radical pro-Creationist view is going to put off voters isn't correct. I'd be willing to bet the remaining 33% wouldn't vote for a Republican if Obama put an (R) after his name.

This might be an issue lots of LGFers are interested in this topic, but at the end of the day if Jindal ran against Obama, Biden, Kerry, Gore or Hillary who would you vote for? I think it is a bit extreme - but then again I think making mentioning creationism by teachers off limits is extreme given the amount of PC crap and distortions kids are taught every day.

So your solution is to teach them still MORE crap and distortion? Jindal's criticism choice was PC all right; creationist PC. That's who he was transparently pandering to.

530 Salamantis  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 10:27:38pm

re: #524 cousin it

I've been a long time reader of LGF and have pretty much ignored the Creationism vs Science discussions because there is a lot of bias on both sides. Frankly I think the Creationism argument belongs at the state level where it is (is not) being implemented...and in this particular case, "the devil really is in the details" of how the states go about putting it in. The attacks on Jindal poisoned many of the readers here and it shows up "in spades" in these comments.

I was pleased to find a few level heads at LGF voice reasonable comments regarding Jindal's intentions...I certainly didn't see his comments as being anti-science but rather as a very good example of wasteful spending in a supposedly critical and very urgent Economic Stimulus Bill...it really doesn't matter that this bill has many, many such examples.

I felt Jindal was speaking more to the "average American" (not to the average Lizardoid) who wouldn't associate Volcano Monitoring funds with an economic stimulus package of such urgency it had to be passed before it was even read by those voting on it.

Like many I would have expected all of the funds to be directly associated to creating jobs and increased consumer spending. Sure 140KK is a drop in a very large bucket but why was it included and who included it? It sounds like to me it was included by a Member of Congress whose vote was needed and because these funds were denied in previous bills.

But I am very disappointed in the all out attacks on Bobby Jindal because of his faith rather than recognizing the absurdity of including any funds in a Stimulus Package for volcano monitoring...

The 1st Amendment, which prohibits church-state entanglement (and indoctrinating other peoples' kids in religious dogmas in public high school science class is most cerrtainly church-state entanglement), is a federal law, and not a state law. And the 14th amendment applies such federal constitutional guarantees to the states.

531 burntjohn  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 10:32:13pm

re: #526 Almost_Honest

The entire west coast of the US is littered with volcano's that are long overdue for activity.
Not just eruptions, but lahars.
Let us also not forget the most beautiful festering boil on the planet Yellowstone.
I think everybody has seen a picture of Crater Lake.
A major eruption near Seattle or Portland would be far more devastating that a hurricane environmentally and economically.

532 burntjohn  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 10:37:51pm

Cascades Volcano Observatory

[Link: vulcan.wr.usgs.gov...]

533 Wendya  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 10:51:07pm

re: #522 Basho

And since I had some energy to spare, I went through the first 140 comments of the George Will thread... While I made quite a few downdings, there were double the amount of updings.

Whatever. I was using the Great Global Warming Swindle Debate thread as the basis of my comment. you made about a dozen down dings in the first 100 comments... the majority of which didn't deal with the faulty science behind AGW. I believe you made one or perhaps two updings. It's weaselly, it's passive aggressive and it reminds me of the AGW adherents who call those of us who dare disagree with them "deniers" as if we were flat earthers.

534 UncleSam  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 10:54:08pm

Has anyone here taken a single climatology class?
I have taken courses in climatology and forestry (which was very heavy on weather effects) and also astronomy, which included info on solar cycles, at UC Berkeley, when it wasn't all PC crap, but real science, and in my opinion, anthropogenic global warming is a total heap of crap designed solely to bring about total governmental control of our lives, and eventually create a single worldwide, all-powerful governmental entity.

535 UncleSam  Wed, Feb 25, 2009 11:10:16pm

Oh, and most CO2 and methane emissions are caused by decaying vegetable matter, both on land and under the seas, and volcano and other geologic emissions, not cars or power plants or from your backyard BBQ or lawnmower.
Human production of so-called greenhouse gases is like a spit in the ocean compared to what nature produces.

What a crock of shit AGW is.

536 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 12:09:41am

re: #490 avanti

Oh goody, more lion meat. :) BTW,what kind of physics ?
Please don't tell me it's small particle physics, or I'll have questions that I'll be too dumb to understand the answers.

There is a remarkable amount of awfulness in what you wrote there. I'm sorry I got called away before jumping into this ignorant troll fest, but yes, the tone of your comments, coupled with your need to call yourself a lion does strongly indicate that you would not understand Field Theory.

Your smug tone and bluster do not equal anything approximating a scientific argument. For the record, I work in Non-Linear Dynamics and Chaos. I used to do String theory before I got into this game. Also for the record, we call it particle physics not "small particle physics." I'm sure you think you were being clever.

Now that you have waggled your man parts, how about if you have a legitimate scientific question, you ask it, politely, like an adult rather than turning red in the face and trying to strut about.

537 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 12:17:10am

re: #490 avanti

Oh goody, more lion meat. :) BTW,what kind of physics ?
Please don't tell me it's small particle physics, or I'll have questions that I'll be too dumb to understand the answers.

My bad, I am so confused by your post now after reading the reast of this thread...

Perhaps sarc and I missed it? If so my apologies for the above comment and I have given you a ton of updings anyway.

538 fooburger  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 12:45:47am

I dont' think this is a valid criticism of Jindal.
His message was difficult to comprehend, sure, but calling volcano monitoring spending 'stimulus' *is* a bit far fetched.
Plenty of other things to criticize Jindal on... and maybe his wording should have been more clear: ie, he's not saying 'volcano monitoring' is unworthy.. he's saying that it's a 'federal budget issue' not a 'stimulus package issue'.
Obviously, as a stimulus issue, volcano monitoring is some particular congressman's porcine dream.

But this kind of *very important* spending should come through the normal budget, as a need for volcano monitoring will not go away once the economy has come back.

After some examination, I'm pretty sure that was Jindal's point. It's a valid one, even if it was a little tough for people to follow in the whole 'gotchya' world. This is going to dog Jindal unfairly for the rest of his career, I believe, just like Palin and the 'Bush Doctrine' stupidity.

539 brandon13  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 12:59:54am

re: #538 fooburger

But why would he choose the volcanic monitoring of all things? There are so many other examples of wasteful spending in the stimulus package and he chooses to highlight this one? How could he possibly not see how easy it would be to criticize him on the point? He's probably correct in that it shouldn't be in a stimulus package, but he could have gone in so many other directions with his criticism without coming off looking hypocritical.

It really leads me to believe that Charles may be correct and this was a deliberate shot at the scientific community, which is pretty disappointing.

540 Know Your Enemy  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 5:06:46am

I'm all for volcano monitoring, but is it shovel-ready?

541 Unakite  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 5:57:07am

re: #2 Bloodnok

You have nothing to lose but your pahoehoe!

Aa, that was bad, and nothing less than a basalt on our intelligence.

542 Ojoe  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 6:31:32am

re: #329 Dr. Shalit

Plinian eruption way more damaging than cow farts, you can stand right next to a cow fart.

543 jmuren  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 6:54:43am

re: #27 OldLineTexan

I have to agree with you. The point of a stimulus bill is to stimulate the economy. Volcano monitoring is important (especially if you are from Hawaii, Alaska, or Washington), but will this spending really stimulate the economy, or is this just another example of piggy-backing (pardon the pun) budget items onto the stimulus bill?

544 LieSeeker  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 7:13:42am

Oh, good. I was worried that "Volcano Monitors Unite!" meant that volcanologists were being pushed to unionize. Although I hear that working conditions are awful, and eruptions aren't properly staying within the standard 9 to 5 working period.

545 Truth Stick  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 8:37:43am

re: #226 Tigger2005

Why pay for it? When I woke up the morning after the eruption and went out to my car, it had a very thin coating of fine ash on it.

I live halfway across the country from Mt. St. Helens.

Eastern Washington was fun to be in, in 1980....we spent a good amount of time scooping up the ash with every backhoe and front end loader we could get our hands on and either piling it up in empty fields or if you were close to river we just dumped it there.....I'm sure it's made it way out to the pacific by now

546 cousin it  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 8:53:18am

re: #530 Salamantis

You really need to go and visit your local high school...all of the world's major religions are covered. To my knowledge there is no "Church of Creationism".

As Charles has rightly pointed out, Christianity isn't the only religion that believes in a Creator...so discussing Creation as being from a Divine being, is simply discussing different philosophical views of how we came into being.

Creationism is just one viewpoint that must be accepted on faith but that doesn't mean discussing it in school is an endorsement of it...no more than teaching the tenets of Hinduism, Islam, Judaism is a state sponsored endorsement of those religions...and that my friend, is being taught today in every public school in the USA.

What are you afraid of?

547 avanti  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 9:22:19am

re: #536 LudwigVanQuixote

There is a remarkable amount of awfulness in what you wrote there. I'm sorry I got called away before jumping into this ignorant troll fest, but yes, the tone of your comments, coupled with your need to call yourself a lion does strongly indicate that you would not understand Field Theory.

Your smug tone and bluster do not equal anything approximating a scientific argument. For the record, I work in Non-Linear Dynamics and Chaos. I used to do String theory before I got into this game. Also for the record, we call it particle physics not "small particle physics." I'm sure you think you were being clever.

Now that you have waggled your man parts, how about if you have a legitimate scientific question, you ask it, politely, like an adult rather than turning red in the face and trying to strut about.

Boy did I screw that up. I was welcoming another "Christian" metaphorically into the lion pit with me. I'm on your side in this discussion. .

548 Salamantis  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 9:59:32am

re: #546 cousin it

You really need to go and visit your local high school...all of the world's major religions are covered. To my knowledge there is no "Church of Creationism".

As Charles has rightly pointed out, Christianity isn't the only religion that believes in a Creator...so discussing Creation as being from a Divine being, is simply discussing different philosophical views of how we came into being.

Creationism is just one viewpoint that must be accepted on faith but that doesn't mean discussing it in school is an endorsement of it...no more than teaching the tenets of Hinduism, Islam, Judaism is a state sponsored endorsement of those religions...and that my friend, is being taught today in every public school in the USA.

What are you afraid of?

There are as many different types of creation myths as there are religions, but ID/creationISM is inextricably intertwined with the concept of a single creating deity. Such a concept is FAR from universal among religious faiths; Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism lack deities altogether, while Hinduism and Paganism have more than one.

I don't mind a class in comparative religion being taught in public high school, as long as all faiths are included and none are favored over any others. But it is fucking WRONG to pollute public high school science classes with religious dogma of ANY sort or kind. It is a recipe for science education disaster.

What am I afraid of? The dogma-driven bastardization of the US scientific enterprise, perhaps the most defining different between the West and the rest of the world, the dearth of competent US bioscientists that would surely result, the subsequent decline in both the US's ability to quickly and effectively defend itself from terrorist bioweapons attacks, and the economically costly decline in the US's ability to compete in the global market in the bioscience field, as bioscience discoveries and innovation are made, and products, technologies and services are produced, marketed and sold, from elsewhere rather than from here.

And this DOESN'T concern you?

549 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 11:54:30am

re: #547 avanti

Boy did I screw that up. I was welcoming another "Christian" metaphorically into the lion pit with me. I'm on your side in this discussion. .

It's all good bro! I get it. Look on the bright side, we confused the trolls too!

550 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 12:13:23pm

re: #534 UncleSam

Has anyone here taken a single climatology class?
I have taken courses in climatology and forestry (which was very heavy on weather effects) and also astronomy, which included info on solar cycles, at UC Berkeley, when it wasn't all PC crap, but real science, and in my opinion, anthropogenic global warming is a total heap of crap designed solely to bring about total governmental control of our lives, and eventually create a single worldwide, all-powerful governmental entity.

As soon as you start going into one world government conspiracy theory, particularly from the scientific community, you seriously damage your credibility as a "level headed scientific type."

Now, have you every taken a class in non-linear systems? To really get at what is going on with AGW you need to know something about that. Also, that is my field.

If you wish to get into this I will be glad to. However, I wish that you keep the tone respectful.

Now in your other posts, you point out a lot about carbon from other sources, but you neglect many other facets of the system. For one thing, many different forms of pollution have deeply depleted ocean algae and there has been massive deforestation in the last century. This is caused by man and it means that there is much less of a carbon sink.

Further, if it were just a matter of natural volcanic cycles, blah, blah blah, we would not see the steady increases in CO2 from Keihling curves that we do. The rate of eruptions has not been increasing dramatically in the last fifty years. This is not the hockey stick, but rather direct optical measurement of concentrations in the atmosphere.

Another issue that you do not take into account is methane from vastly increased farm operations. Not just cow farts at all. Consider a CAFO. A pig produces per day, as much feces as eight humans. That means one Cafo in Texas, with two million swine (and there are many, and not just in Texas) produces as much feces as the New York metro area. What happens to all of that fecal matter. For one thing legislation was passed to ease regulation on cleaning it up so, unlike New York, there is no waste management or sewage treatment.

This realeases a ton of methane. Methane is a worse greenhouse gas than CO2.

There is also a conversation about water vapor and us silly scientists not noticing it. Again, like the creationists that like to misquote the Second Law, do you really think that you figured out something really basic, that the whole scientific community missed. Do consider that if it gets warmer for other reasons, there will be more water vapor in the air and now you have a feedback loop.

551 nikis-knight  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 12:45:46pm

This is absurd. There is nothing about volcano monitoring, or "Science!" more generally, that merits it's inclusion in this absurd so-called stimulus bill, and putting it there is basically theft, or fraud at best, despite whatever merits there might be, and Jindal was right to denigrate it as such, science worshipers notwhithstanding.
Of course, there is much more to hate about Obama's economics, and no reason to single this out, but the fact that this is being portrayed as a "windfall for Science!" is just laughable. If the merits of Volcano monitoring cannot be argued in a normal appropriations bill, then it has no buisiness getting this "windfall", which is not some random bit of happenstance, but an unpayable loan from a government drowning in debt.

552 CLLRusso  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 2:07:06pm

re: #526 Almost_Honest

I guess because I have family living just out of the lahar?(lava) path of Mt Rainer in Washington state I do look at volcano monitoring a bit more personally than may Gov. Jindal. It is an active volcano and as hundreds of thousands of people have built in it's path, despite warnings and past history(destruction of Orting), it is something to be monitored. In fact there was a documentary on Discovery channel about all of this and to this day school children have drills getting to higher ground in event of an Rainer eruption.

The amount of money that should cost I know nothing about. But we have always monitored active volcanoes in the US, in fact, a friend of a friend was the vulcanologist incinerated when Mt. St. Helen's blew in the 80's. "Here it comes" he had time to say, and he was 7 miles away. At least that is John's story.

Regarding Jindal, I am surprised that his speech was not coordinated by the GOP. And if not, perhaps this is a lesson. Like haven't we screwed up enough over the last 8 years?

553 drool  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 2:17:24pm

#551,

Volcano montoring is an interstate and international commerce issue. When one issues an ash cloud you cannot always see it. Airplane radar cannot detect it. There are active ones that are right along the airways. A 747 lost all 4 engines due to the Redoubt eruption a few years back. You can bet if that plane crashed, Jindal would be signing a different tune.

554 nikis-knight  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 3:30:04pm

Interstate commerce. Heh, the ultimate authority section of the constitution.
Sure, there are hypotheticals that could negatively effect our country, and by a long stretch might be within legitimate governmental authority, but that doesn't mean it has a place in an emergency, pass-without-reading sitmulus bill to save our economy from troubles originating in the banking sector by using borrowed money.
And it doesn't mean it isn't funny that self-styled defenders of science are acting like agrieved community organizers who think there's a chance of the governmental gravy train being disrailed.

555 LieSeeker  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 8:47:39pm

LudwigVanQuixote:

there has been massive deforestation in the last century.


If you mean before 1930, yes. Or were you referring to the 1800s?

556 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Thu, Feb 26, 2009 9:33:28pm

re: #555 LieSeeker

LudwigVanQuixote:


If you mean before 1930, yes. Or were you referring to the 1800s?

I was referring to world wide deforestation. As to America, I get your reference.


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