Now They’re Surprised

Middle East • Views: 2,290

Think maybe they should have been actually, you know, paying attention during the campaign, when one Obama anti-Israel associate after another was being revealed? Jewish Leaders Blast Clinton Over Israel Criticism.

NEW YORK (CBS) ― In a swift about face from her views as New York’s senator, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is now hammering Israel over its treatment of Palestinians in Gaza.

As First Lady, Clinton raised eyebrows when she kissed Suha Arafat. Since she was then seeking a Senate seat the resulting brouhaha caused her to “re-think” her positions.

“I’m a very strong supporter of Israel,” Clinton said back in February 2000.

On Thursday, as Secretary of State she had yet another about face in the form of angry messages demanding Israel speed up aid to Gaza. Jewish leaders are furious.

“I am very surprised, frankly, at this statement from the United States government and from the secretary of state,” said Mortimer Zuckerman, publisher of the New York Daily News and�member of the NYC Jewish Community Relations Council.

“I liked her a lot more as a senator from New York,” Assemblyman Dov Hikind, D-Brooklyn, said. “Now, I wonder as I used to wonder who the real Hillary Clinton is.”

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367 comments
1 lifeofthemind  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:48:27am

Rodham-Clinton, Freeman, Powers; a triple threat.

2 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:49:43am

I'll repost what I said before:

They have got to be fucking kidding me! Like they didn't know this was coming from an Obama Administration or any Democratic Administration for that matter? If any of my liberal Jewish friends or relatives says this to my face I might have to bitch slap them from here to next year. I am going to be mentioning this all day. Charles should have a thread about this. Jewish Leaders surprised? Kiss my ass! I hope I've been clear about this?

3 filetandrelease  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:49:50am

surprise surprise surprise (Jethro)

4 loppyd  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:49:54am

They were blinded by the light.

5 Desert Dog  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:50:11am

If you look closely, you can see the marionette strings attached to her arms, mouth, head, legs, hands, etc, etc......Do that funny dance Hillary, do it for your master....

6 rawmuse  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:50:13am

One would think that ordinary self preservation instincts would kick in at some point.

7 turn  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:50:35am

I still find it hard to believe so many Jewish people supported O. The way it was explained to me here was it was the old Democratic voters that simply check the "D" candidate every time.

8 VegasRick  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:51:00am

“I am very surprised, frankly, at this statement from the United States government and from the secretary of state,” said Mortimer ZSuckerman

9 VegasRick  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:51:22am

re: #3 filetandrelease

surprise surprise surprise (Jethro)

Gomer.

10 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:51:34am

Democrats, throwing an entire country under the bus.

I weep for the USA.

11 filetandrelease  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:52:05am

re: #2 Nevergiveup

I got it, and feel about the same.

12 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:52:17am
“I liked her a lot more as a senator from New York,” Assemblyman Dov Hikind, D-Brooklyn, said. “Now, I wonder as I used to wonder who the real Hillary Clinton is."

Yeah- maybe those pesky republicans were actually correct about something, huh?

13 blangwort  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:52:20am

Welcome to the new New NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY!

You voted for us because we have no history doing this job yet. We have no idea what we're doing. But we will be a major force of Change. It's all about The CHANGE. Whatever the Evil GOP did was bad, no matter what it was.

We're all about the CHANGE, Baby!

14 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:52:20am

Anyone -

How do you say "Cognitive Dissonance" in yiddish? Oy Vey?

I have some friends who are Jewish Obamatons that I want to email this to.

15 lifeofthemind  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:52:26am

An Uncle of mine who really should know better fell for the "Maybe they all will like us now" argument.

16 turn  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:52:27am

re: #2 Nevergiveup

I hope I've been clear about this?

No, how do you really feel about this?
/

17 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:52:31am
“Now, I wonder as I used to wonder who the real Hillary Clinton is.”

A Clinton? Being a two-faced weasel?! Nooooo!

What is the world coming to?

18 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:52:50am
Youtube Video
19 filetandrelease  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:52:56am

re: #9 VegasRick
yep, thanks.

20 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:53:05am

re: #7 turn

I still find it hard to believe so many Jewish people supported O. The way it was explained to me here was it was the old Democratic voters that simply check the "D" candidate every time.

It's more than that. Jewish guilt may be part of it. And most Jews today have never been to Israel and feel NO allegiance to it and do not understand what it meant to be a Jew BEFORE there was a State Of Israel. And don't assume all Jews have half a brain in their heads.

21 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:53:17am
22 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:53:24am

re: #5 Desert Dog

If you look closely, you can see the marionette strings attached to her arms, mouth, head, legs, hands, etc, etc......Do that funny dance Hillary, do it for your master....

She may be a marionette, but she is more of a Hillocchio. She doesn't need strings.

23 yma o hyd  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:53:31am

Pity that 'I told you so' always comes with a very hefty price tag ...
And more pity that its not them who'll pay, but Israel.

24 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:53:37am

BTW - Hillary Clinton's loyalties lie with one person - Hillary Clinton.

25 kay1212  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:53:40am

We've elected no friends to Israel and proponents of socialism.

We're going to cause small businesses to lay off more people.

We're rewarding sloth and overspending and an inattention to personal financial affairs.

The end result of all of this is going to be unpleasant.

26 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:53:42am

re: #17 Occasional Reader

A Clinton? Being a two-faced weasel?! Nooooo!

What is the world coming to?

This calls for the Captain!

[Link: www.eatliver.com...]

27 Kragar  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:53:47am

SUPRISE! SUPRISE! SUPRISE!

/Gomer

28 thatemailname  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:54:01am

Yep. And so it begins.

29 Onslow  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:54:13am

From the archives:

Allies of Palestinians see a friend in Barack Obama

30 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:54:15am

re: #21 buzzsawmonkey

Sadly common and typical.

31 turn  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:54:17am

re: #20 Nevergiveup

It's more than that. Jewish guilt may be part of it. And most Jews today have never been to Israel and feel NO allegiance to it and do not understand what it meant to be a Jew BEFORE there was a State Of Israel. And don't assume all Jews have half a brain in their heads.

Why would the guilt tend to make them vote for O?

32 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:54:30am

Charles, your sentiment behind the post is well taken, but it's a bit out of context. I'll tell you why:

It's highly unlikely that Mort Zuckerman voted for Obama, or Hikind, either. Both have been very critical of him since day one. I'm not surprised that Zuckerman said this, either.

If you want to stick it to someone, it should by Marty Peretz at TNR. He dedicated his publication to nothing but Obama-prop, even going so far as to defend Samantha Power and Reverend Wright. Now, Marty's feeling the sting and venting his pain over at The Spine.

33 soxfan4life  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:54:32am

re: #10 MrSilverDragon

Democrats, throwing an entire country under the bus.

I weep for the USA.

By the time they are done, the destruction they cause to the planet will be 100's time worse than their false global warming ever would be.

34 Desert Dog  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:54:59am

She's Charlie McCarthy and Obama is Edgar Bergen. For his next trick he will drink a glass of water while Hillary verbally tosses the entire country of Israel under the bus....

35 daledog  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:55:12am

Dear Assemblyman Dov Hikind,
The real Hilary Clinton is an opportunistic fraud. How could you not see this? Fool.

Daledog

36 littleoldlady  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:55:50am

A LOT of my friends and relatives are not returning my emails these days.

/and I swear I'm saying nothing even close to "I told you so."
//I'm glad they are at least embarrassed/feel stupid...

37 rawmuse  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:56:01am

At the risk of over simplification, I personally know 2 types of Jews, devout ones (who support Israel), and secular ones (who are beyond Liberals, they tend to Communism).

38 pat  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:56:08am

Can't say we did not tell them.
The viciousness and monolithic hate of this administration for American ideals is further evidenced by the decision to allow the photographs of dead military to be disseminated under certain circumstances. This clearly is designed to embarrass America and use our dead as blood porn for Muslims.

39 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:56:13am

re: #31 turn

Why would the guilt tend to make them vote for O?

Because Bush only cared about rich white people and he let those nasty Jews do anything they wanted to the poor unfortunate Palestinians?

40 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:56:15am

re: #21 buzzsawmonkey

Not only.

My brother is an economist who works in mortgages. He had hands-on experience of ACORN putting pressure onto Freddie to lower standards and guarantee sub-prime mortgages; he knew--I told him--of Obama's longtime connections to ACORN. And he supported Obama nonetheless, on the grounds that the Bush Administration was evil and incompetent.

Is it too grim to joke "Hoffnung macht frei" (Hope will make you free)?

41 soxfan4life  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:56:20am

re: #34 Desert Dog

She's Charlie McCarthy and Obama is Edgar Bergen. For his next trick he will drink a glass of water while Hillary verbally tosses the entire country of Israel under the bus....


She is Charlie McCarthy, Obama is Mortimer Snerd and Madame Speaker is Edgar Bergen.

42 dhg4  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:56:32am

I will defend Sen. Clinton for her performance as U.S. Senator. Unlike her competition she did things to promote Israel's well being as Senator. She didn't just talke about it. She provided support the MDA and brought Itamar Marcus to speak to the Senate. Obviously, those actions were taken out of expediency.

Now she has different marching orders.

43 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:56:42am
44 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:56:46am

re: #6 rawmuse

One would think that ordinary self preservation instincts would kick in at some point.

Yeah, you'd think.

45 Maximu§  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:56:47am

Oh, you mean Hillary and Bill were bought and paid for by the Communists Chinese and rich Arab's? It can't be!

46 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:57:00am

I'm so suprised, too!

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAAHHA

47 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:57:07am

re: #3 filetandrelease

surprise surprise surprise (Jethro)

Um, I think that was Gomer.

48 VegasRick  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:57:24am

re: #41 soxfan4life

She is Charlie McCarthy, Obama is Mortimer Snerd and Madame Speaker is Edgar Bergen.

I thought they were all fuckheads.

49 turn  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:57:24am

re: #21 buzzsawmonkey

Not only.

My brother is an economist who works in mortgages. He had hands-on experience of ACORN putting pressure onto Freddie to lower standards and guarantee sub-prime mortgages; he knew--I told him--of Obama's longtime connections to ACORN. And he supported Obama nonetheless, on the grounds that the Bush Administration was evil and incompetent.


It's pretty sad when you let the hatred for an outgoing president be the only thing that influences your vote on the upcoming election. This was also the motivation for 99.9% of the dKos kiddies too.

50 tripletdad  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:57:26am

Gee, ya think so....?
Why do people believe a candidate's obvious lies to get themselves into positions of power, and then are shocked to find out they really meant something else entirely? Do they still believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny?

51 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:57:42am
52 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:57:49am

re: #37 rawmuse

At the risk of over simplification, I personally know 2 types of Jews, devout ones (who support Israel), and secular ones (who are beyond Liberals, they tend to Communism).

Well there are some like me also. Relatively secular but hard to the right.

53 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:58:17am

Let us not forget about the video tape in the LA Times vault that can only be released with permission of the person who gave it to the Times.

It should be clear to any thinking person that such a tape is a sort of extortion implement that hangs over Obama's head - "make the wrong move regarding Hamas, and the tape goes public and you lose all Jewish voter support."

So Obama will play the middle in a way - he will embrace and legitimize Hamas and then turn to Israel and say (in his best French accent) "It is what I must do to create the conditions for peace. You will benefit. I am looking out for your interests."

Until that tape is aired, people will believe him.

54 yma o hyd  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:58:22am

re: #36 littleoldlady

A LOT of my friends and relatives are not returning my emails these days.

/and I swear I'm saying nothing even close to "I told you so."
//I'm glad they are at least embarrassed/feel stupid...

Hiya, {littleoldlady}!
Its sad about your friends and relatives.
Having to accept that one was wrong is quite a hard thing to do.
I hope your friends and relatives start e-mailing you soon!

55 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:58:34am

re: #52 Nevergiveup

Yes-secular or traditionally inclined Jewish nationalists.

56 VegasRick  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:58:39am

re: #50 tripletdad

Gee, ya think so....?
Why do people believe a candidate's obvious lies to get themselves into positions of power, and then are shocked to find out they really meant something else entirely? Do they still believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny?

Truth Fairy.

57 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:58:45am

re: #24 karmic_inquisitor

BTW - Hillary Clinton's loyalties lie with one person - Hillary Clinton.

Indeed. I'm still wondering what she's getting in return for taking this position. There's more going on here, imo.

58 Desert Dog  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:58:59am

re: #48 VegasRick

I thought they were all fuckheads.

You're right, and we are all screwed

59 soxfan4life  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:59:20am

re: #48 VegasRick

I thought they were all fuckheads.

Thought they were, they still are aren't they?

60 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:59:23am

re: #32 davesax

Marty Pareutz.

/ fixed.

61 Teacake!  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:59:28am

Knowing the lefties that I know, I can say that they voted for O to absolve white guilt, and they didn't want an old guy.

62 crown_of_feathers  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:59:36am

Yep, folks, this will go down as one of the "No sh*t, Sherlock", moments.

Maybe Sarah Silverman can "schlep" down to Florida to apologize to all the grandfolks down there.

Being Jewish, I naturally used to buy the old cliche that Jews were not the dullest tools in the shed. Now it has become obvious that American Jews are stuck on stupid (a.k.a. "voting for the Democrats").

63 rumcrook  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:59:47am

hooohooohhooooh hehehehee ooooohh my sides are hurting.

talk about willful blindness to all reality.

the king has no cloths.

reminds me of the movie eric the red, where the island is sinking around the inhabitants ears yet as the water comes up around thier ears they still refuse to acknowledge the immminent danger and impending doom.

but to be fair the rest of the population of the U.S. hasnt cought on to the truelly out of control incompetence (except for giving speaches) administration and party in charge of america.

64 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:59:48am

re: #42 dhg4

I will defend Sen. Clinton for her performance as U.S. Senator. Unlike her competition she did things to promote Israel's well being as Senator. She didn't just talke about it. She provided support the MDA and brought Itamar Marcus to speak to the Senate. Obviously, those actions were taken out of expediency.

Now she has different marching orders.

Just like her husband, she has no real moral compose. It's all about what will be good for her. She stands for nothing but the Clintons. I hate her and her lying cheating husband.

65 turn  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:59:48am

re: #39 Nevergiveup

Because Bush only cared about rich white people and he let those nasty Jews do anything they wanted to the poor unfortunate Palestinians?

You mean they have guilt over the plight of the Palis? Oh, it's worse than I thought.

66 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:59:50am

re: #37 rawmuse

Well, rawmuse, you don't know many "Jews". I'm secular, and am far from a communist.

Many secular American Jews feel attached to Israel. It's just that the few extremists who don't are persistent in getting their message out there.

The reason many Jews voted for Obama has been perfectly recorded on this blog, having mainly to do with the GOP's failure to keep the Christian right-wing at bay.

Neither party is all "good for the Jews". It's really about the lesser of two evils at this point.

67 Russkilitlover  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 8:59:53am

re: #21 buzzsawmonkey

Not only.

My brother is an economist who works in mortgages. He had hands-on experience of ACORN putting pressure onto Freddie to lower standards and guarantee sub-prime mortgages; he knew--I told him--of Obama's longtime connections to ACORN. And he supported Obama nonetheless, on the grounds that the Bush Administration was evil and incompetent.

Uh....Was he aware that Bush was NOT running against O?

68 filetandrelease  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:00:11am

re: #47 Cato the Elder
Yeah, my third correction. Non the less, be stupid to be suprised by this....

69 VegasRick  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:00:33am

re: #59 soxfan4life

Thought they were, they still are aren't they?

Throw Reid in there and you have a bunch of GIANT fuckheads.

70 HelloDare  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:00:52am

Think maybe they Limbaugh and Coulter should have been actually, you know, paying attention during the campaign, when one Obama anti-Israel associate after another was being revealed? Jewish Leaders Blast Clinton Over Israel Criticism. they were trashing McCain.

71 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:00:57am

re: #55 WriterMom

Yes-secular or traditionally inclined Jewish nationalists.

Yes and I might say although I am not particularly religious ( brought up conservative ) I fully support and even admire those who are more religious than me.

72 Timbre  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:00:59am

re: #50 tripletdad

Do they still believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny?

What do you mean "believe?" I've written them! :)

73 lifeofthemind  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:01:24am

Zuckerman has commercial reasons to have tried to justify support for Obama. The NY Daily News has become the paper for the proletariate especially for the black community. It is far more generally read than the fringe Amsterdam News. THe Post has a far smaller readership among blacks and is more willing to challenge racial PC shibboleths. For Zuckerman to break with Obama, given that he is a much smaller player than Murdoch of the Post's Newscorp, is a brave act that can cripple the News in the long run.

74 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:01:25am

re: #65 turn

You mean they have guilt over the plight of the Palis? Oh, it's worse than I thought.

Oh Yes. I am not kidding about that.

75 bulwrk  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:01:40am

re: #49 turn

It's pretty sad when you let the hatred for an outgoing president be the only thing that influences your vote on the upcoming election. This was also the motivation for 99.9% of the dKos kiddies too.

Its pretty sad when just reversing the polices of your predecessor willy nilly is your idea of leadership.

76 acwgusa  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:01:47am

OT

Nice little Anti-Tax/Anti-Socialism protest going down here in downtown San Diego.

77 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:01:56am

re: #71 Nevergiveup

I totally understand.

78 soxfan4life  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:02:01am

re: #69 VegasRick

Throw Reid in there and you have a bunch of GIANT fuckheads.

And a great argument for retroactive birth control.

79 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:02:02am

I'm not surprised. I suppose this disqualifies me from being a "Jewish leader." (Who elected these douchenozzles anyway? Nobody sent me a ballot)

80 loppyd  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:02:08am

re: #75 bulwrk

Its pretty sad when just reversing the polices of your predecessor willy nilly is your idea of leadership.

It is what he said he would do. Did these people have shit in their ears during the campaign?

81 Hengineer  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:02:12am

re: #66 davesax

Well, rawmuse, you don't know many "Jews". I'm secular, and am far from a communist.

Many secular American Jews feel attached to Israel. It's just that the few extremists who don't are persistent in getting their message out there.

The reason many Jews voted for Obama has been perfectly recorded on this blog, having mainly to do with the GOP's failure to keep the Christian right-wing at bay.

Neither party is all "good for the Jews". It's really about the lesser of two evils at this point.

But I thought it was a Vast Jewish Conspiracy to control the world and the world banks and money.

/s

82 Montaigne's Cat  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:02:18am

Perhaps our President and Secretary of State would like the government of Israel to build tunnels into Gaza and smuggle better weapons to Hamas.

83 yma o hyd  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:02:20am

re: #57 Sharmuta

Indeed. I'm still wondering what she's getting in return for taking this position. There's more going on here, imo.

One thing which is going on is that the state Department is thoroughly pro-hamasthugs and fataholes, and thoroughly against Israel - in the nicest, diplomaticalliest way possible, naturally.

84 littleoldlady  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:02:28am

re: #54 yma o hyd

yma o hyd! :-) :-) :-)

On the one hand I miss them, but on the other hand I'm not sure I can resist reaching through my monitor and strangling them.

I dunno. Maybe we're better off this way. ;-)

/gonna be a looooooong 4 years!

85 Teacake!  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:02:31am

These Dem Jews might finally wake up with the agenda now out of the bag.

86 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:02:45am

Remember all those liberals who drove around circa 2001 with bumper stickers that said "Joshua Bartlett is MY President"?

I'm beginning to understand them a little more. I find myself fighting a strong - and dangerous - temptation to make-believe that this isn't actually my government, that I can just ignore it and it'll go away.

87 VioletTiger  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:02:51am

re: #21 buzzsawmonkey

What does he have to say now?

88 rawmuse  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:02:58am

re: #66 davesax

You have to take in to account where I live too, San Francisco, Berkeley area.

89 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:03:14am

re: #73 lifeofthemind

Zuckerman has commercial reasons to have tried to justify support for Obama. The NY Daily News has become the paper for the proletariate especially for the black community. It is far more generally read than the fringe Amsterdam News. THe Post has a far smaller readership among blacks and is more willing to challenge racial PC shibboleths. For Zuckerman to break with Obama, given that he is a much smaller player than Murdoch of the Post's Newscorp, is a brave act that can cripple the News in the long run.


Fuck him if he is gonna sell his people down the river for a few shekels

90 opinionated  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:03:22am

We Jews need a new covenant with God.

Less of the brain functions that have us become successful professionals like doctors, less of the brain functions that win Nobel prizes, and more of the brain functions that raise our political intelligence and naivete somewhat higher then that of a tree stump.

91 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:03:22am

re: #78 soxfan4life

There is this horrible Hebrew expression about sending someone "back from where they came out of". LOL. Is that what you mean?

92 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:03:30am
93 Grantman  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:03:34am
“I liked her a lot more as a senator from New York,” Assemblyman Dov Hikind, D-Brooklyn, said. “Now, I wonder as I used to wonder who the real Hillary Clinton is.”

Ha! Dov. You've always known who she is. She's whoever she wants to be at any given time. The woman has NO morals or ethics whatsoever.

Can we get a mulligan on the election?

94 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:03:49am

re: #1 lifeofthemind

Rodham-Clinton, Freeman, Powers; a triple threat.

What about what's-his-name, Thomas Mallory? Mallery? Malley? Malloy?

95 leadbelly  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:04:19am

I thought this was hilarious. Has the right wing completely lost their minds? This comment is from some Fox News blog.

This is no surprize! The American voters put the wrong person in our Oval Office. He is raising taxes for all of us. He placed crooks in his cabinet. Since 2006, the Democratic Congress has delighted in their selfish ways.He is destroying the business people every day. He tracks up horrendous spending! He has no moral values. He had 20 years of teaching by Wright, who taught him how to hate. His heart belongs to Kenya and his education was by muslims. He is what he is! He is doing nothing to help our economy. He is reaching into every wallet to take money from us and build government even bigger! What a sad day for America! He is rolling our his Socialist agenda, just as he promised. He looks into his mirrow and smiles at his messiahship. We all lose from this lack of leadership! Look what you liberal loons did.

96 dhg4  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:04:40am

Though it's a bit late, Martin Peretz has come around. (At least on the topic of Israel.)

My question is when will other prominent pro-Israel supporters of President Obama start to express doubts? I'm asking about people like Deborah Lipstadt and Alan Dershowitz.

And will any pro-Israel Democratic legislators ask the President about his administration's woeful participation in the Durban II planning sessions, pledge of $900 million for Gaza or the appointment of Chas Freeman?

97 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:04:40am

re: #66 davesax

Many secular American Jews feel attached to Israel

Hey, I'm a secular American goy, and *I* feel attached to Israel...

98 bakishamil  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:04:43am

Let these savages burn in hell.....

99 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:04:47am
100 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:04:53am

re: #73 lifeofthemind

There is NO JUSTIFICATION WHATSOEVER FOR A JEW SUPPORTING OBAMA. Any Jew who supported this SOB for any reason is misguided and an idiot and hopeless. And those are the polite things I have to say.

101 yma o hyd  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:04:57am

re: #80 loppyd

It is what he said he would do. Did these people have shit in their ears during the campaign?

Yes.
Tons of it!

102 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:05:18am

re: #88 rawmuse

Point taken, my friend. I would imagine the extremists out there have a loud voice that has given you the wrong impression!

I don't know why everyone is saying "I told you so" to Mort Zuckerman. He's been tough on Obama since day one. Probably a good idea to look at his Op-Eds before slamming him and calling him a trator. Noone is more of an ally to Israel than Zuckerman.

103 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:05:25am
104 Hengineer  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:05:33am

re: #95 leadbelly

I thought this was hilarious. Has the right wing completely lost their minds? This comment is from some Fox News blog.

That guy apparently lives in a closet and believes everything that the craziest of freepers tell him.

105 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:05:34am

re: #92 buzzsawmonkey

You know the whole weary litany--

....

blah blah blabbity blah blah.

blabbity is a new one for me. The rest I am quite familiar with.

/

106 Kragar  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:05:45am

re: #76 acwgusa

OT

Nice little Anti-Tax/Anti-Socialism protest going down here in downtown San Diego.

Really? Where?

107 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:05:46am
108 turn  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:05:53am

re: #74 Nevergiveup

Oh Yes. I am not kidding about that.

Maybe we can hope they wash their hands of guilt when O gives them a billion dollars to fix what the bad Israelis did to the Palis. Spit ...

109 opinionated  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:06:06am

re: #100 WriterMom

There is NO JUSTIFICATION WHATSOEVER FOR A JEW SUPPORTING OBAMA. Any Jew who supported this SOB for any reason is misguided and an idiot and hopeless. And those are the polite things I have to say.

Everything you say is correct.....and also true about the Gentiles.

110 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:06:08am

Not peep on the Captain Obvious pic, eh?

Pfft.

111 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:06:09am

re: #85 Teacake!

NOPE. They are more committed to liberalism than Judaism.

112 acwgusa  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:06:15am

re: #106 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Really? Where?

Front of the County Building, Harbor Drive.

113 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:06:21am
114 Hengineer  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:06:34am

re: #109 opinionated

Everything you say is correct.....and also true about the Gentiles.

The Goyim? =-P

115 brookly red  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:06:53am

re: #76 acwgusa

OT

Nice little Anti-Tax/Anti-Socialism protest going down here in downtown San Diego.

Could be a long hot summer.

116 yma o hyd  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:06:56am

re: #84 littleoldlady

yma o hyd! :-) :-) :-)

On the one hand I miss them, but on the other hand I'm not sure I can resist reaching through my monitor and strangling them.

I dunno. Maybe we're better off this way. ;-)

/gonna be a looooooong 4 years!

They'll only be long if people like you and all other Lizards sit on their claws and hope for some miracle!

I think you're all perfectly positioned to kick the ball running already, for a big turn-around in 2010!

117 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:06:57am

re: #94 MandyManners

What about what's-his-name, Thomas Mallory? Mallery? Malley? Malloy?

Robert Mallory.

[Link: blogs.jta.org...]

118 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:06:58am

re: #109 opinionated

Yes, actually, true for any morally sensible, Western person of any colour, religion or creed.

119 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:06:59am

re: #89 Nevergiveup

Fuck him if he is gonna sell his people down the river for a few shekels

But wait, there's more! Call now, and we'll throw in this lovely Mess o' Pottage®, absolutely free!

120 crown_of_feathers  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:07:00am

re: #94 MandyManners

"What about what's-his-name, Thomas Mallory?.."

What the heck? Is the author of Le Morte d'Arthur about to join the administration?

121 turn  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:07:00am

re: #75 bulwrk

Its pretty sad when just reversing the polices of your predecessor willy nilly is your idea of leadership.

So true and no bul, bul.

122 Kragar  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:07:04am

re: #112 acwgusa

Front of the County Building, Harbor Drive.

Hmmm, I would have picked the Federal Building, but parking there is a bitch I guess

123 soxfan4life  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:07:10am

re: #91 WriterMom

There is this horrible Hebrew expression about sending someone "back from where they came out of". LOL. Is that what you mean?

It was an expression my father used all the time when I was a kid. I just think it is kind of funny myself.

124 Hengineer  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:07:11am

re: #76 acwgusa

OT

Nice little Anti-Tax/Anti-Socialism protest going down here in downtown San Diego.

Whose behind it?

125 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:07:37am

re: #95 leadbelly

I thought this was hilarious. Has the right wing completely lost their minds? This comment is from some Fox News blog.

Sounds accurate to me.

126 Russkilitlover  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:07:39am

re: #76 acwgusa

OT

Nice little Anti-Tax/Anti-Socialism protest going down here in downtown San Diego.

Is there a link? I really wanted to be there today, but since I just started this new job, I didn't think it would be cool to ask for the time off.

127 rawmuse  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:07:39am

I don't know why pro-Israel Jews would not want to be connected to the Christian Right, since that voting bloc is uniformly pro-Israel. I have some relations in Israel right now, doing Bible study, in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. They would fight and die for Israel without reservation.

128 dhg4  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:07:39am

re: #86 Occasional Reader

Remember all those liberals who drove around circa 2001 with bumper stickers that said "Joshua Bartlett is MY President"?

I'm beginning to understand them a little more. I find myself fighting a strong - and dangerous - temptation to make-believe that this isn't actually my government, that I can just ignore it and it'll go away.

But what would we do? Bumper stickers that say "David Palmer is my President?" We can't, he's dead! (Besides he didn't run for re-election.)

129 formercorpsman  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:07:42am
“Now, I wonder as I used to wonder who the real Hillary Clinton is.”

The hell you say

130 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:07:47am

re: #110 Ben Hur

Not peep on the Captain Obvious pic, eh?

Pfft.

Peep.

131 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:07:51am

re: #119 Occasional Reader

If you throw in a Ginsu knife, and a compilation of 70s and 80s Top Bar Mitzah Hits, even I might be swayed.

132 Sheila Broflovski  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:07:59am

re: #62 crown_of_feathers

Yep, folks, this will go down as one of the "No sh*t, Sherlock", moments.

Maybe Sarah Silverman can "schlep" down to Florida to apologize to all the grandfolks down there.

Being Jewish, I naturally used to buy the old cliche that Jews were not the dullest tools in the shed. Now it has become obvious that American Jews are stuck on stupid (a.k.a. "voting for the Democrats").

Little Miss Douchenozzle proclaimed that if Obama doesn't get elected "It's the Juice fault."

Now maybe I can say that everything that is happening since Obama has been elected, is HER fault.

This smug little spoiled-rotten bitch disgusts me beyond belief.

133 opinionated  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:08:00am

re: #118 WriterMom

Yes, actually, true for any morally sensible, Western person of any colour, religion or creed.

And no one but no one can claim they weren't warned.

134 acwgusa  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:08:22am

re: #124 Hengineer

Whose behind it?

The Harbor, Buildings...

Oh! You meant what group! Not sure.

135 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:08:22am

Obama at Camp Lejeune and I have to turn it off.

136 lifeofthemind  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:08:23am

re: #100 WriterMom

There is NO JUSTIFICATION WHATSOEVER FOR A JEW SUPPORTING OBAMA. Any Jew who supported this SOB for any reason is misguided and an idiot and hopeless. And those are the polite things I have to say.

Misguided? Yes
Idiot? Probably
Hopeless? No
Unlike the Islamists I do not presume to speak for God.
Eternal judgement is not for me to say.
Where there is life there is hope.

137 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:08:32am

re: #120 crown_of_feathers

"What about what's-his-name, Thomas Mallory?.."

What the heck? Is the author of Le Morte d'Arthur about to join the administration?

See my No. 117.

138 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:08:41am

re: #127 rawmuse

Some of us Jooos get that. And are very thankful and grateful for the support.

139 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:08:43am

re: #130 Occasional Reader

Peep.


Thanks, bra.

140 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:08:53am

re: #89 Nevergiveup

That's pretty nasty stuff about Zuckerman.

He's never sold his people out for anything. He's been very, very critical of Obama since day one.

Not sure why you're resorting to stereotypes to slam him. He's done more for Israel than any of us here.

141 Hengineer  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:09:00am

re: #127 rawmuse

I don't know why pro-Israel Jews would not want to be connected to the Christian Right, since that voting bloc is uniformly pro-Israel. I have some relations in Israel right now, doing Bible study, in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. They would fight and die for Israel without reservation.

I think they're afraid the right-wing Christians would say anti-Jewish shit about killing their lord and savior or something?

Makes no sense because a lot of those were KKK style Southern Democrats and the Jewish people in America have been solidly Democrats!

weird

142 dhg4  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:09:07am

re: #117 MandyManners

Robert Mallory.

[Link: blogs.jta.org...]

Actually that's Robert Malley.

143 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:09:08am

re: #127 rawmuse

I don't know why pro-Israel Jews would not want to be connected to the Christian Right, since that voting bloc is uniformly pro-Israel. I have some relations in Israel right now, doing Bible study, in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. They would fight and die for Israel without reservation.

Because some Jews are just as bigoted and narrow minded as anyone else. I agree with you 100%.

144 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:09:22am

re: #136 lifeofthemind

OK. You're right. Not hopeless-I agree. There are many who come over from the Dark Side.

145 Timbre  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:09:31am

I may do some letter-writing. I'm mad about the murder of Polish geologist Piotr Stanczak, the lack of support for Israel, and the overall waning--in my opinion--of an aggressive, dedicated war against terrorists. And I have the next five days off from work to do something about it.

146 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:09:38am
Zuckerman, Lawmakers, Local Jews Say Secretary Of State Not The Hillary Clinton They Used To Know

The real Hillary Clinton would not have been elected to represent New York.

147 formercorpsman  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:09:48am

re: #135 Nevergiveup

Hey, he thought of joining the military.

148 Russkilitlover  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:10:16am

re: #122 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Hmmm, I would have picked the Federal Building, but parking there is a bitch I guess

I heard a week ago that they wanted the protest to be near the Star of India (old tea merchant vessel) and that this is really a protest against the California boondogle of a budget that was passed.

149 yma o hyd  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:10:26am

re: #100 WriterMom

There is NO JUSTIFICATION WHATSOEVER FOR A JEW SUPPORTING OBAMA. Any Jew who supported this SOB for any reason is misguided and an idiot and hopeless. And those are the polite things I have to say.

Yep - and it was not as if this was some sort of deeply-hidden secret which PB0 suddenly has sprung on a totally unprepared and unsuspecting public!
Those who wanted to hear and see - could have seen and heard.
But they didn't want to!

150 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:10:29am

re: #140 davesax

That's pretty nasty stuff about Zuckerman.

He's never sold his people out for anything. He's been very, very critical of Obama since day one.

Not sure why you're resorting to stereotypes to slam him. He's done more for Israel than any of us here.

I was making reference to however it was that said he supported Obama to advance his newspaper. If he did that, then my remarks stand.

151 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:10:33am

re: #119 Occasional Reader

But wait, there's more! Call now, and we'll throw in this lovely Mess o' Pottage®, absolutely free!

I wouldn't adore you if you weren't so warped.

152 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:10:36am

re: #140 davesax

Wasn't Zukerman one of the Jewish philanthropists who gave the greenhouses to the Palestinians?

153 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:10:49am

re: #143 Nevergiveup

Because some Jews are just as bigoted and narrow minded as anyone else. I agree with you 100%.

Because it's all just an evil plot to convert us all!

154 soxfan4life  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:11:00am

re: #147 formercorpsman

Sure he did. For what 1/1000 of a second.

155 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:11:28am
156 acwgusa  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:11:32am

re: #148 Russkilitlover

I heard a week ago that they wanted the protest to be near the Star of India (old tea merchant vessel) and that this is really a protest against the California boondogle of a budget that was passed.

Yeah, its here, but it looks more like a blame increased taxes on Fed/State. Equal Opportunity blame.

157 opinionated  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:11:35am

The media and press continue to harp on how extraordinarily popular Obama remains.

What they don't tell you- I heard this morning- is that his popularity is below Bush's after his first month in office.

158 livefreeor die  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:11:57am

Here's a general question-Are Obama and company just incredibly stupid and inept or are they intentionally destroying our country? I'm starting to wonder how they could be this dense without trying.

159 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:12:10am

re: #142 dhg4

Actually that's Robert Malley.

Shit. At least I got his first name correct.

THANK YOU!

160 turn  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:12:12am

re: #66 davesax

Well, rawmuse, you don't know many "Jews". I'm secular, and am far from a communist.

Many secular American Jews feel attached to Israel. It's just that the few extremists who don't are persistent in getting their message out there.

The reason many Jews voted for Obama has been perfectly recorded on this blog, having mainly to do with the GOP's failure to keep the Christian right-wing at bay.

Neither party is all "good for the Jews". It's really about the lesser of two evils at this point.

Really, I hadn't heard that reason. Is it the Christian or the right-wing aspect that influenced their vote?

161 realwest  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:12:30am

re: #95 leadbelly
Why hilarious? Other than poorly written, it seems to me that he has Obama's number right on.

Sorry, gotta go get into cab, just couldn't let your punk comment stand.

See y'all.

162 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:12:33am

re: #155 Iron Fist

Jews in Europe in 1940 were probably surprised at the stand Hitler and the Nazis took against Jews. Just because he'd been spouting anti-Semitism ever since he was a corporal, didn't mean that anyone thought he was actually an anti-Semite. Maybe that's a little harsh, but the truth is that the Left have been anti-Semitic for a very long time. Certainly for my entire life.

It is a little surprising that they are acting surprised. They must have just not been listening.


Wow, you're friggin old!

163 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:12:35am

re: #139 Ben Hur

Thanks, bra.

No problem, bru.

164 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:12:36am

re: #153 Ben Hur

Psssst, BenHur-why don't we just get them to take our real duds off our hands? Like, they take Roseanne Barr, Naomi Klein, Naomi Wolff, Thomas Friedman, Martyn Indyk, Dennis Ross, Emmanuel Rahm, etc.. and we get-oh maybe John Bolton, VDH, Steyn..good deal, yes?

165 opinionated  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:12:43am

re: #159 MandyManners

Shit. At least I got his first name correct.

Or just call him that Shit.

166 loppyd  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:12:48am

re: #157 opinionated

The media and press continue to harp on how extraordinarily popular Obama remains.

What they don't tell you- I heard this morning- is that his popularity is below Bush's after his first month in office.

And that is disapproval numbers have doubled.

Off to run errands.

Hope everyone has a super afternoon!

167 CommonCents  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:12:48am

re: #135 Nevergiveup

Obama at Camp Lejeune and I have to turn it off.

Gathering intel for our enemies, is he?

168 Kragar  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:13:08am

re: #148 Russkilitlover

I heard a week ago that they wanted the protest to be near the Star of India (old tea merchant vessel) and that this is really a protest against the California boondogle of a budget that was passed.

Makes sense then. Who are the organizers?

169 livefreeor die  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:13:22am

re: #167 CommonCents

Gathering intel for our enemies, is he?

Making sure he has the coordinates right for them.

170 rumcrook  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:13:31am

seems to me that when liberals vote for the "ones who promise to create heaven on earth, the end up creating hell on earth for everyone.

171 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:13:32am

re: #155 Iron Fist

Like that whacko Jewish lefty from CA who was SO SHOCKED that there was antisemitism at some rally-and some black leader apologized so she wrote him another cheque. Not listening is exactly what it is about.

172 formercorpsman  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:13:35am

re: #154 soxfan4life

Yes, I think it was that moment in time, the world paused for a nanosecond, whilst his & Ashton's synapse collided on this contemplation.

173 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:13:52am

Maybe they should take their focus off of Clinton and put it where it belongs: on CBBHO. She's not doing anything but what he tells her to do.

174 BigAl  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:13:54am

OT: I know many here are not thrilled with Mike Huckabee but at the CPAC he made a lot of sense:

“It’s pure Congressional Recovery Action Plan and smells like a Congressional Recovery Action Plan,” he said to a standing ovation.

The crowd at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) greeted Huckabee’s remarks enthusiastically.

The winner of the 2008 Iowa Caucus and several southern states, Huckabee said nothing about plans for another campaign. But he did talk about what Republicans need to do to win again.

He also brought up his signature campaign issue, a national sales tax or fair tax.

“We should shut down the IRS and pass a fair tax, then we will no longer have a tax cheat running the IRS,” Huckabee said to long applause, referencing Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner’s tax troubles.

Huckabee recalled that some conservatives ridiculed him during the 2008 primary after he said “the Wall Street-Washington axis is out of control.” He thinks recent events have vindicated his analysis. He also said the situation undermined the free market.

“I don’t have a problem with bonuses, I have a problem with taxpayers paying bonuses, especially to the people who flew their companies into the ground instead of making them successful,” Huckabee said.

“When the free market is allowed to function without (Massachusetts Rep.) Barney Frank’s hand on the scale, people won’t buy homes they can’t afford because they won’t get loans they can’t pay. When the free market is allowed to function without (Michigan Rep.) John Dingell, companies won’t make cars nobody wants to buy.”

He called on Republicans to reject notions that the party lost in November for being pro-life, and added that “Ronald Reagan did not throw social conservatives under the bus.”

He said that without strong families and values, there will be more crime and poverty and welfare. Thus, said Huckabee, social and fiscal conservatism cannot be separated.

“The fortunes of fiscal and social conservatives are interrelated,” he said. “Let’s not have a divorce, but have reconciliation. Both wings are needed to fly.”

Known during the 2008 presidential campaign for numerous one-liners, Huckabee accused Democrats of trying to create a “United Socialist States of America,” and added, “even Obamaweek, formerly Newsweek, says so.”

175 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:14:02am
176 FrogMarch  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:14:08am

For some reason democrats (Jewish Democrats) have this never ending reservoir of forgiveness. As long as Hillary Clinton pays lip service, again, she will be forgiven. And remember with the left it's not what people do, it's what people say to cover it up.


I predict Hillary to say once again "I am a strong supporter of Israel" - and all will be forgiven. The Clintons are masters at fence straddling.

177 rawmuse  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:14:14am

re: #141 Hengineer

Whenever I have encountered such sentiments, I have corrected the bearer of same, quickly and firmly. Such people exist, but I find them to be more and more rare.

178 CommonCents  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:14:17am

Europe names crew for Mars 'mission'. I can think of 438 + 1 politicians for the U.S. mission to Mars. In fact, that would be like sending them home.

179 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:14:21am

re: #158 livefreeor die

"The ends justify the means."

Sound familiar? Your president wants to move America into the Euroweenie/Socialist model.

180 soxfan4life  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:14:29am

re: #155 Iron Fist

Jews in Europe in 1940 were probably surprised at the stand Hitler and the Nazis took against Jews. Just because he'd been spouting anti-Semitism ever since he was a corporal, didn't mean that anyone thought he was actually an anti-Semite. Maybe that's a little harsh, but the truth is that the Left have been anti-Semitic for a very long time. Certainly for my entire life.

It is a little surprising that they are acting surprised. They must have just not been listening.


Along with anti-Semitic they are also inredibly rascist. It's the liberals who promote quotas and differential treatment for races.

181 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:14:38am

re: #152 WriterMom

Yes, he did. And they trashed it. It was a true effort at outreach.

But his credentials on Israel are unassailable. If you look up his writing, you see nothing but total support for Israel to defend itself.

He has been critical about Obama from day one. Never drank the cool-aid.

It's clear that Obama is seeking a different middle east policy that is not comfortable for many supporters of Israel. I know I'm not comfortable with it.

But to say that Jews were "stupid" to vote for him is wrong, I believe. The Republican party has embraced the anti-science Christian right, which is antithetical to everything mainstream Israel and Judaism has come to represent.

Jews are truly between a rock and a hard place. It's not a good time politically for the Jews.

182 Macker  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:14:40am

re: #13 blangwort

The NDP might take issue with that, eh.

183 Russkilitlover  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:15:08am

re: #156 acwgusa

Yeah, its here, but it looks more like a blame increased taxes on Fed/State. Equal Opportunity blame.

What's the crowd size like?

184 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:15:48am
185 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:16:23am

Some music for your Friday morning.

Youtube Video
186 DistantThunder  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:16:34am

My friend refused to admit that her husband was cheating on her even when their was physical evidence to the contrary. On one occassion the evidence was overwhelming, and she said it was like "scales falling" from her eyes, and all the pieces fit together.

"aha." - but not in a good way. I think it's termed "oh-no."

187 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:17:01am

re: #163 Occasional Reader

No problem, bru.


Is that you, Turtle?

(The original Turtle for Northshore)

188 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:17:08am

re: #175 buzzsawmonkey

Soon to be renamed Camp Jejune by presidential order.

If we're to be selling birthrights for messes of pottage, shouldn't it be Camp Legume?

189 soxfan4life  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:17:09am

re: #172 formercorpsman

Wasn't in the corps myself, Army instead. Just couldn't imagine Obama making the cut.

190 yma o hyd  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:17:17am

re: #170 rumcrook

seems to me that when liberals vote for the "ones who promise to create heaven on earth, the end up creating hell on earth for everyone.

History should have taught them that this is what always happens ...
Its not as if there haven't been any earlier attempts!

191 Morganfrost  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:17:37am

Hah! All you anti-Semites out there-- still want to push that stereotype that Jews are really clever?! Doesn't this sort of thing prove that we're actually pretty dumb some time?!

192 Teacake!  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:18:24am
27 rawmuse
I don't know why pro-Israel Jews would not want to be connected to the Christian Right,

One reason is that the Far Right Christians see Israel as theirs after the End Times, which doesn't include Jews. Also, people like Pat Robertson make us very very nervous. They aren't really pro-Israel when you do the research.

193 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:18:32am

re: #187 Ben Hur

Is that you, Turtle?

(The original Turtle for Northshore)

Right over my head.

I was imitating the allegedly authentic Rhodesian/South African lingo spouted by Leo DiCaprio in Blood Diamond.

194 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:18:46am

Senator Barack Obama, though impressive in his oratorical abilities, may not have the foreign policy experience that many would like to see, or that his opponents possess. It is reasonable to expect that he may rely on the foreign policy advisors he has chosen to a greater extent than would a new president more adequately grounded in foreign affairs and national security matters.

Over the past month, controversy has erupted over the issue of Senator Obama's foreign policy advisers and the impact that they might have on a future President Obama's policies toward Israel, and on American foreign policy in the broader region. Articles in the Washington Post, Newsweek, American Thinker, New York Sun, Politico, Commentary Magazine, The New Republic, CAMERA and other publications have precipitated this controversy.


Both those who support Senator Obama and his quest for the presidency and those who have concerns often share the same goal: ensuring that our next president comes to office well-prepared for the demands of the highest office in our nation. The President is uniquely powerful in the realm of foreign policy. In these perilous times, all of us want to ensure that the man or woman who steps into the White House in January is well-prepared to deal with the foreign policy challenges that lie ahead.


Who are Obama's Foreign Policy Advisors?


Newsweek published a list of Senator Obama's foreign policy advisers that included Zbigniew Brzezinski and Robert Malley. A few weeks later, the Washington Post on October 2, 2007 published a list of foreign policy advisers for all the major candidates, which list included the names of Zbigniew Brzezinski, Robert Malley, Samantha Power and Susan Rice as advisers to Senator Obama. Subsequently, Martin Peretz -- an Obama supporter -- wrote at the end of December that he got the "shudders" when thinking about the foreign policy influence of "Zbigniew Brzezinski... Anthony Lake, Susan Rice and Robert O. Malley".

SNIP

195 VegasRick  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:18:53am

re: #95 leadbelly

I thought this was hilarious. Has the right wing completely lost their minds? This comment is from some Fox News blog.

You find that funny? Fuck you.

196 Ruebacca  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:18:58am

GULF-ARAB Paymasters. They keep Clinton flush with cash and Obama will retire rich too.

197 turn  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:18:59am

re: #127 rawmuse

I don't know why pro-Israel Jews would not want to be connected to the Christian Right, since that voting bloc is uniformly pro-Israel. I have some relations in Israel right now, doing Bible study, in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. They would fight and die for Israel without reservation.

Let me know if anybody here has an answer for that, it didn't make much sense to me either. At first I thought perhaps they felt their religion was threatened but I thought, nah must be something else. Must be a nice day in the bay, pretty nice in Sac today.

198 jcm  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:19:43am

re: #178 CommonCents

Europe names crew for Mars 'mission'. I can think of 438 + 1 politicians for the U.S. mission to Mars. In fact, that would be like sending them home.

Make it one way for 535 +14 (congress and executive branch) call it "colonization."

////

199 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:19:44am

re: #193 Occasional Reader

Do you mean to tell me you have never seen this?!?:

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

200 opinionated  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:20:02am

re: #181 davesax

But to say that Jews were "stupid" to vote for him is wrong, I believe. The Republican party has embraced the anti-science Christian right, which is antithetical to everything mainstream Israel and Judaism has come to represent.

Jews are truly between a rock and a hard place. It's not a good time politically for the Jews.

In some elections that could be a valid argument. But not in this past election.

It wasn't a choice between a rock and a hard place, with all the cues readily available it was a choice between a hard place and the abyss. And there there should be a logical preference.

201 captdiggs  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:20:03am

There is a wholesale shift away from the policies of the last 40 years supporting Israel. Chas Freeman and Samantha Power are leading the charge towards befriending Islam and tossing the only middle east democracy under the bus.
It's the new age of appeasement and it will mean far greater danger to the US and all other democracies.

202 Montaigne's Cat  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:20:15am

if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck . . .

203 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:20:17am

re: #192 Teacake!

Good answer, Teacake.

The Christian Right supports Israel for religious reasons, and sees "secular" Jews as a problem.

But Israel was founded as a secular state, not a religious one.

And, given its scientific accomplishments, the worldview of many of its citizens is not in lockstep with the Christian right.

204 DistantThunder  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:20:35am

re: #186 DistantThunder

My friend refused to admit that her husband was cheating on her even when their there was physical evidence to the contrary. On one occassion the evidence was overwhelming, and she said it was like "scales falling" from her eyes, and all the pieces fit together.

"Aha." - but not in a good way. I think it's termed "oh-no."

205 SFGoth  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:20:38am

Just goes to prove that not all Jews are the smartest people in the world. Of course, they damn well knew what the game was, they just can't bring themselves to vote Republican.

206 FrogMarch  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:20:39am

I have no idea why so many on the left have blind-faith adoration for their political heroes.

I like the guys over at Hillbuzz - but come on.

207 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:20:53am

re: #57 Sharmuta

Indeed. I'm still wondering what she's getting in return for taking this position. There's more going on here, imo.

I have mused VP when Gaffes steps down due to ill health. After all O needs some expertise on how to shove Socialized Medical Care down all our throats and how best to counter the opposition.

208 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:21:29am

Don't forget about all the Dinars the Clintons received from Arab regimes.

209 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:21:42am

re: #205 SFGoth

Just goes to prove that not all Jews are the smartest people in the world. Of course, they damn well knew what the game was, they just can't bring themselves to vote Republican.

A guy in my office has turned on Obama already but shudders at the thought of voting Republican

210 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:21:45am

re: #200 opinionated

You're saying my argument is invalid?

Thanks for the de-valuation.

I respectfully disagree.

211 jcm  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:22:00am

re: #207 FurryOldGuyJeans

I have mused VP when Gaffes steps down due to ill health. After all O needs some expertise on how to shove Socialized Medical Care down all our throats and how best to counter the opposition.

If Health care is the Veeps issue I'd say Daschle.

212 JohnnyReb  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:22:07am

re: #155 Iron Fist

Jews in Europe in 1940 were probably surprised at the stand Hitler and the Nazis took against Jews. Just because he'd been spouting anti-Semitism ever since he was a corporal, didn't mean that anyone thought he was actually an anti-Semite. Maybe that's a little harsh, but the truth is that the Left have been anti-Semitic for a very long time. Certainly for my entire life.

It is a little surprising that they are acting surprised. They must have just not been listening.

I was saying the exact same thing months ago. It isn't like Hitler didn't write down in his book exactly what his plans were.

Anyone with a brain could see what the One was going to do from who his buddies were.

213 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:22:43am

Ahmadinejad says Iran ready to help Iraq develop

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said on Friday the Islamic state wanted to help neighbouring Iraq to accelerate its development, state television reported.

Ahmadinejad met Iraqi President Jalal Talabani on Friday during his second trip to Iran since 2007.

"Iran's help to accelerate Iraq's progress has no limit. Iran is ready to offer Iraq its experiences in every field possible," state television quoted Ahmadinejad as saying during the meeting,

Now, isn't that just spectacular? Did Ahmadi 'the still living terrorist' Nejad sweep into Iraq on his bright shiny multi-pastel colored unicorn? There are so many around these days.

214 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:22:46am

watching Obama's speech... I love counting 1 unicorn, 2 unicorn, 3 unicorn, 4 unicorn... while his head pivots back and forth to his teleprompters. You can try this at home too... go ahead

215 Killgore Trout  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:22:52am

Krazy konservatives.....
CPAC: Is This the Image Republicans Want to Project?

(Link takes a while to load)

216 Teacake!  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:23:15am

davesax - and I guess you know but others aren't commenting on it, but the Far Right Christians expect Jews to convert.

217 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:23:40am

re: #206 FrogMarch

I have no idea why so many on the left have blind-faith adoration for their political heroes.

I like the guys over at Hillbuzz - but come on.

Because they honestly believe that politicians can create a utopia here on Earth if only the right laws are passed and enough money is spent. Then they can stop feeling guilty for having the good fortune of being born Ameircans.

218 Hengineer  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:23:44am

re: #208 Ben Hur

Don't forget about all the Dinars the Clintons received from Arab regimes.

What about China?

219 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:24:01am

re: #192 Teacake!

One reason is that the Far Right Christians see Israel as theirs after the End Times, which doesn't include Jews. Also, people like Pat Robertson make us very very nervous. They aren't really pro-Israel when you do the research.

You got that nailed. Some of the biggest Christian supporters of Israel are only supporters because they see the Jews as a necessary piece of the puzzle that will help fulfill the return of their messiah.

The world is for their christ, the Jews will be co-opted into that world at the end, because they will realize that the "true" messiah has bee the same messiah all along, the Christian messiah.

For some Christians, the middle east is the game board on which all this plays out, to the final advantage to the Christians.

And realize I'm talking only about the far-right Christian movement, the kind that has spawned Robertson, Falwell, Lindsey, Trinity Boradcasting etc.

This is fact.

220 J.S.  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:24:16am

OT

The Zero is addressing the troops at Camp LeJeune, so that he can directly address the Iraqi people...priorities.

221 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:24:24am

Oh goody, Obama is "speaking directly to the Iraqi people" now... is he going to apologize to them for voting against the surge and saying an impending Iraqi genocide was not good enough reason to stay & help them?

222 soxfan4life  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:25:01am

re: #212 JohnnyReb

I was saying the exact same thing months ago. It isn't like Hitler didn't write down in his book exactly what his plans were.

Anyone with a brain could see what the One was going to do from who his buddies were.

But those weren't really his buddies, just people from his neighborhood. I wonder what they do with his skin when he sheds it?

223 leadbelly  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:25:07am

Yes, please take comfort in the lunacy of what the right has become. [Link: www.foxnews.com...]

I mean c'mon people! Most conservatives are now watching Glenn Beck. He's nothing more than a Alex Jones type which you've rejected. Where does your info come from? Nothing but right wing websites and believe me I read them everyday. Why is Hot Air so different than LGF? It's not a freaking game.

I ask you this: Why are people who call themselves Republicans even in office? They don't even believe in government. Military spending and tax cuts. That is all they want. Why did these people run for something that they themselves don't even believe in? It's quite mind boggling.

224 J.S.  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:25:24am

re: #221 Kenneth

He wishes to assure his Iraqi people that the AmeriKKKans don't harbor the desire to occupy Arab lands.

225 blangwort  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:25:27am

re: #182 Macker

I'm so sorry for you Canuck Lizards who have to deal with this sort of thing. I know we think we have it bad here at times, and then I look north of the border...

226 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:25:32am

Back in 2005 I was talking to a gay friend of mine about the parties and asked him what specifically had the democrats done towards working on gay issues he felt earned them his vote.

After a moment of contemplation he said, "nothing."

I said, "Okay- now in your mind pick another minority group and ask yourself the same question, then the next minority group, and the next. What have they done for those groups?"

After a few moments he again said, "nothing."

These democratic voters need to wake up to the fact that they are pandered to and then forgotten, taken for granted until the next election cycle. Until they wake up to this fact, they will continue to be surprised every time they discover democrats say one thing then do another.

227 Teacake!  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:25:54am
And realize I'm talking only about the far-right Christian movement, the kind that has spawned Robertson, Falwell, Lindsey, Trinity Boradcasting etc.

Exactly Walter. And that is exactly why Jews are very reluctant to view them as allies.

228 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:25:56am

re: #199 Ben Hur

Do you mean to tell me you have never seen this?!?:

[Link: www.imdb.com...]

Missed it, I'm afraid.

229 VegasRick  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:25:56am

c'mon leadbelly. Come out and play fuckwad.

230 Osama Bin Porkchop  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:25:57am

America seems to be inheriting a lot of buyer's remorse w/ the Obamamessiah.....

231 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:25:59am

re: #207 FurryOldGuyJeans

I have mused VP when Gaffes steps down due to ill health. After all O needs some expertise on how to shove Socialized Medical Care down all our throats and how best to counter the opposition.

That's what I think too.

232 rawmuse  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:26:21am

re: #216 Teacake!

davesax - and I guess you know but others aren't commenting on it, but the Far Right Christians expect Jews to convert.

Both religions are Messianic, no?

233 opinionated  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:26:39am

re: #210 davesax

You're saying my argument is invalid?

Thanks for the de-valuation.

I respectfully disagree.

Are you arguing that in the election between McCain and Obama for Jews - and anyone else with any knowledgeable educated common sense- the choice was equally bad?

It wasn't. McCain was - with all his faults- easily the vastly superior choice. Obama was no choice at all.

234 Macker  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:26:46am

re: #198 jcm

Wouldn't you rather send them to Venus?

235 Leonidas Hoplite  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:26:51am

re: #201 captdiggs

There is a wholesale shift away from the policies of the last 40 years supporting Israel. Chas Freeman and Samantha Power are leading the charge towards befriending Islam and tossing the only middle east democracy under the bus.
It's the new age of appeasement and it will mean far greater danger to the US and all other democracies.

Indeed it will. Though I beleive we will triumph in the end it will not occur without a tremendous expenditure of blood and treasure. Since we are already broke the aftermath may not be such a rosey future but at least we'll still be free and our enemies will be vanquished..

236 Timbre  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:27:05am

O/T A View of the Enemy:

Mohammed quoted Zakir as saying Qari's decision to behead Stanczak was sound "as it would create fear amongst the nonbelievers. If we keep on sending such gifts to the Europeans and others, they would soon be compelled to flee the region,” Mohammed said. “If God wishes, people would see more and more beheadings of nonbelievers in the future.”

Hakimullah Mehsud, the Taliban commander in Arakzai, Khyber, and Peshawar who is behind the attacks on NATO's supply lines in northwestern Pakistan, had hoped to get a teenager to behead Stanczak but the plan was called off due to the short amount of time to find a child, Mohammed said.

237 CommonCents  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:27:28am

re: #223 leadbelly

Thanks for the input leadhead.

238 J.S.  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:27:31am

I believe the Zero has had quite a few pauses in his speech (no doubt applause pauses) but there's been mostly silence (or polite, muted applause.)

240 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:28:14am
241 Macker  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:28:29am

re: #225 blangwort

I'm so sorry for you Canuck Lizards who have to deal with this sort of thing. I know we think we have it bad here at times, and then I look north of the border...

I'm not a Canuck. I just happen to know who might take issue with it...

/Heheheheheheheh

242 opinionated  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:29:06am

Top priority for Michelle and me.

Co-presidency?

243 MandyManners  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:29:06am

Ooooooh. More shitty news ahead.

244 gegenkritik  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:29:13am

Don't worry about Israel, the Messiah has come.
Well, at least to Iranian sources.
And you will be surprised, because it is...

...Harry Potter.

245 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:29:20am

re: #223 leadbelly

It's well known that Bill Ayers and his wife were behind some really nasty stuff in the past, but I suspect that just because Ayers is a real good friend of Obama's, you wouldn't want us to connect Ayers as anyone that thinks like Obama.

My opinion.

So, why do you paint the whole GOP with this one example of someone who is obviously a nut and a criminal?

246 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:30:41am
247 BakiShamil  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:30:50am

Its Muslim money what makes world go around from sane to insanity. Money , money , money.

248 ilzito guacamolito  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:31:46am

Good afternoon.
I am late to the party, but why is anyone surprised about Hill? Isn't she the bitch who kissed that other bitch Suha Arafat and nodded in agreement when she claimed Israel was poisoning Palestinian children?

249 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:31:56am
250 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:32:16am

re: #247 BakiShamil

Its Muslim money what makes world go around from sane to insanity. Money , money , money.

Are you saying ALL Muslim money? Clarify yourself a bit please.

251 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:32:30am
252 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:32:39am
253 AuntAcid  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:32:42am

re: #226 Sharmuta

don't ya know...
it feels so good to be stroked...
zip,zero,nada...
nothing's gonna change...

254 Pyrocles  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:32:48am

I remember listening to an interview on NPR once by Renee Montagne. She was interviewing some foreign policy expert in the Bush administration, and she was convinced that the only reason America ever supported Israel is for that precise religions reason. The Bush admin guy was surprised, and trying to explain to her other reasons for US support of Israel. She never really seemed to understand that the Christian Right's religious reasons weren't the only reason behind America's support of Israel.

Many Lefties like Montagne probably believe that the only reason the US ever supported Israel is for the selfish reasons of the Christian Right.

re: #219 Walter L. Newton

You got that nailed. Some of the biggest Christian supporters of Israel are only supporters because they see the Jews as a necessary piece of the puzzle that will help fulfill the return of their messiah.

The world is for their christ, the Jews will be co-opted into that world at the end, because they will realize that the "true" messiah has bee the same messiah all along, the Christian messiah.

For some Christians, the middle east is the game board on which all this plays out, to the final advantage to the Christians.

And realize I'm talking only about the far-right Christian movement, the kind that has spawned Robertson, Falwell, Lindsey, Trinity Boradcasting etc.

This is fact.

255 theheat  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:32:52am

Just in case anyone needs a refresher, here's Hillary's speech at the 2008 AIPAC conference:

As a senator from New York, who has talked way too much, I have seen the tragic toll of terrorism on 9/11 here at home as well. My support for Israel does not come recently or lightly. I know it is right in my head, in my heart and in my gut. And that is exactly the commitment we need in our next president - a Democratic president, because the Democratic Party’s strong commitment to the state of Israel since the days of Harry Truman endures today.

Such a short memory, Hillary.

256 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:33:00am

re: #240 ploome hineni

that is not a fair comment...Jews may be as bigoted and narrow..but I would even argue that

but that is not the reason may Jews are very hesitant about some Christian support

/not to discuss now :)

I know liberal Jews that HATE "right wing" Christians.

257 J.S.  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:33:38am

wow. Obama's speech is really bombing...

258 FrogMarch  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:33:41am

re: #223 leadbelly

You're right. Let's just let the Socialist Democrats take over. We don't need checks and balances or a two party system . What we need is Obama as Hugo Chavez! Viva the Revolution.

259 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:34:21am

re: #252 buzzsawmonkey


American Protestantism is not a continuation of and does not share European Protestantisms proclivity for anti_Semitism.

260 bulwrk  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:34:27am

re: #223 leadbelly

please take comfort in the lunacy of what the right has become.

Now that's hilarious,when the right starts painting themselves up head to toe and marching around in g strings carrying giant paper mache heads I might agree but until then GFY.

261 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:34:59am
262 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:35:07am

re: #233 opinionated

I'm not arguing anything.

As I said, your opinion is noted and I disagree.

That's all I have to say about it at this time.

263 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:35:18am
264 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:35:20am

re: #95 leadbelly

What exactly do you find so amusing, the less than ideal writing, or the incipient hard-core Socialism of our POTUS?

265 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:35:56am

re: #223 leadbelly

Yes, please take comfort in the lunacy of what the right has become

You have the reasoning ability of an 8-year old.

And I'm being generous.

266 Timbre  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:36:05am

re: #252 buzzsawmonkey

Some very good points there I had forgotten about.

267 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:36:37am

re: #254 Pyrocles

I remember listening to an interview on NPR once by Renee Montagne. She was interviewing some foreign policy expert in the Bush administration, and she was convinced that the only reason America ever supported Israel is for that precise religions reason. The Bush admin guy was surprised, and trying to explain to her other reasons for US support of Israel. She never really seemed to understand that the Christian Right's religious reasons weren't the only reason behind America's support of Israel.

Many Lefties like Montagne probably believe that the only reason the US ever supported Israel is for the selfish reasons of the Christian Right.

Ah, it's a big fucking reason for a lot of Christian conservatives. Of course, I don't mean ALL Christian conservatives, but I spent 20 years in the south and the southwest, and at the grass roots level, there is a lot of people who support Israel for religious reasons.

And they don't consider it selfish. They consider it the "will of g-d."

268 blangwort  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:36:42am

re: #244 gegenkritik

Don't worry about Israel, the Messiah has come.
Well, at least to Iranian sources.
And you will be surprised, because it is...

...Harry Potter.

They need all the jinxes we can conjure up. It's about all we can do, since by inaction, we are waiting for some suicide dweeb to make a nuclear holocaust happen.

269 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:36:52am

re: #261 ploome hineni

I bet these 'jews' hate Chassidic Jews EVEN MORE

That might very well be true, but still doesn't excuse them

270 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:37:04am

re: #257 J.S.

wow. Obama's speech is really bombing...

How? How are you gauging that?

271 Dustyvet  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:37:05am

re: #265 Occasional Reader

You have the reasoning ability of an 8-year old.

And I'm being generous.

Overly so...

272 Walter L. Newton  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:37:31am

re: #265 Occasional Reader

You have the reasoning ability of an 8-year old.

And I'm being generous.

Don't insult my 8 year old.

273 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:37:44am

re: #261 ploome hineni

I bet these 'jews' hate Chassidic Jews EVEN MORE

Probably, but for different reasons completly.

CHassidic Jews remind them of their shortcomings as Jews.

Not that I think all Jewish authenticity lays with the Chassids - the above can be applied to liberal Jews' views on any religious Jew and why I think the radical secularists in Israel hate the religious so much.

274 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:39:34am

re: #211 jcm

If Health care is the Veeps issue I'd say Daschle.

I am not saying it is a direct issue, but Hillary has direct expertise on what potentially will be the opposition to be expected to any thrust for Socialized Medicine.

And VP is an easy step to POTUS in 2012 or 2016.

It is a twofer with Hillary as VP.

275 AuntAcid  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:40:25am

re: #255 theheat

Just in case anyone needs a refresher, here's Hillary's speech at the 2008 AIPAC conference:

Such a short memory, Hillary.

dementia or duplicity?

276 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:40:41am
277 theheat  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:41:03am

re: #275 AuntAcid

Selective amnesia.

278 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:41:10am

re: #255 theheat

Just in case anyone needs a refresher, here's Hillary's speech at the 2008 AIPAC conference:

Such a short memory, Hillary.

Well, 0bama forgot what he said a day later.

279 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:41:11am
280 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:41:39am

re: #276 buzzsawmonkey

Oh, I agree.

I was merely giving a history lesson, attempting to explain why American Jews have locked themselves into refusing to look at the virtues of a more conservative worldview, into clinging to a fear of Christians that is shortsighted and silly (partly as a way of avoiding looking at how they've abandoned their own heritage), and refusing to look at the attitudes actually held, and the policies actually pursued, by the people they insist on supporting against all reason.

Well said, as usual.

281 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:41:45am

re: #275 AuntAcid

dementia or duplicity?

Duplicity, that's her middle name

282 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:43:58am

re: #279 ploome hineni

of course not.....but they hate, hold in contempt, all religious people

that is my point
ot, and by the way;

yesterday, a very insightful poster called YY posted this

Yes liberals so hold all religious people in contempt. I agree. The fact that Jews voted for Obama, makes me almost go over the edge. I started spitting as i type.

283 turn  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:44:30am

re: #252 buzzsawmonkey

I wish I had more than one upding for you buzz. Thanks so much for giving me the historical perspective I was lacking. As you may have guessed by now I'm neither Jewish nor religious, I really appreciate your perspective.

284 turn  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:45:15am

re: #280 Ben Hur

Well said, as usual.

ditto

285 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:45:25am

re: #231 Sharmuta

That's what I think too.

Add on:

a) that being VP keeps an potential enemy and rival of O REAL close, and on a considerably short leash

b) VP is an easier step to POTUS than SecState

c) Hillary is the Socialist Ideologue par excellence of the two Clintons

286 ConservatismNow!  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:45:27am

I think we need to make a Hillary Clinton doll in the same style as Stretch Armstrong. She'll take whatever position you want her to take as long as she stays in power!

287 J.S.  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:46:16am

re: #270 Walter L. Newton

Obama's getting all the "applause points" off (in the midst of the speech -- when there was no "pause" -- the audience suddenly started cheering/applauding -- it was a puzzle as to "why?" -- Obama mirrored the puzzlement and made some quip -- i wonder if someone hadn't told them to do a "cheer" or else). It struck me as off...timing, mood, wrong key -- and there didn't seem (to my mind) to be any real, genuine enthusiasm (I've seen Bush speak at these events, and it had a real rallying effect -- not so here -- maybe it was also the messages that Obama was delivering -- the undercurrent that the war was wrong to begin with, and that now, at Long Last! the war will be over -- you know, the usual Bush bashing from a pacifist, then of course the talk about "wounded vets" -- PTSD and brain damage as the "signature" injuries of vets (?), then a kind of maudlin remarking of how two young kids (one 18?) who lost their lives in service to the military, then had a bridge named after them...etc. Just didn't hit the right notes, imo.)

288 Dave the.....  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:46:49am

Never give up

They have got to be fucking kidding me! Like they didn't know this was coming from an Obama Administration or any Democratic Administration for that matter? If any of my liberal Jewish friends or relatives says this to my face I might have to bitch slap them from here to next year. I am going to be mentioning this all day. Charles should have a thread about this. Jewish Leaders surprised? Kiss my ass! I hope I've been clear about this?


Never underestimate that power of hatred against President Bush. It all gets back to that.

289 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:48:35am

re: #288 Dave the.....

Never give up


Never underestimate that power of hatred against President Bush. It all gets back to that.

That's part of it for sure, but many liberal jews are both ignorant and just don't get it.

290 Colonel Panik  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:48:40am

re: #21 buzzsawmonkey

Not only.

My brother is an economist who works in mortgages. He had hands-on experience of ACORN putting pressure onto Freddie to lower standards and guarantee sub-prime mortgages; he knew--I told him--of Obama's longtime connections to ACORN. And he supported Obama nonetheless, on the grounds that the Bush Administration was evil and incompetent.

Ugh...

291 Da Coyote  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:48:52am

Jews appear to very bright in many areas. However, their continued support for dim-bulb-crats negates all other intellectual accomplishments, since this will result in the destruction of both Israel and us.

292 El Anti-Idiotario  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:48:56am
“I am very surprised, frankly, at this statement from the United States government and from the secretary of state,” said Mortimer Zuckerman, publisher of the New York Daily News and member of the NYC Jewish Community Relations Council.

Yes, Indeed. A surprise for Mr. Mortimer Zuckerman. But NOT for the rest of us...

293 Rancher  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:49:11am

I thought liberal Jews hated Israel. I admit I based this on their voting records. Now they're shocked? I assumed they could read. I shouldn't assume.

294 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:49:18am

re: #223 leadbelly

You sure have no knowledge of anyone or anything Conservative, that's for sure. All you know of Conservatives and Conservatism is what you gleaned from DU and DKos.

295 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:50:21am

re: #293 Rancher

I thought liberal Jews hated Israel. I admit I based this on their voting records. Now they're shocked? I assumed they could read. I shouldn't assume.

I am pretty sure you could pick Israel out on a map of the world, don't assume a liberal jew could.

296 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:51:25am

It is said when Moshe brought the Israelites out of Egypt, 4/5 got left behind.

Maybe the reason for that is the same for the 80% (my guess) of Jews who are liberals first and Jews second.

But when Mashiach comes (the Messiah), eventually, everyone gets the benefits.
He better come soon.

297 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:53:38am

re: #296 Kosh's Shadow

It is said when Moshe brought the Israelites out of Egypt, 4/5 got left behind.

Maybe the reason for that is the same for the 80% (my guess) of Jews who are liberals first and Jews second.

But when Mashiach comes (the Messiah), eventually, everyone gets the benefits.
He better come soon.

It does make you wonder, doesn't it?

298 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:55:51am

re: #295 Nevergiveup

Interesting statement.

I live in an area represented by one of the leading reform synagogues in the country. The rabbi is outspoken in his liberal politics and a stalwart Zionist, sponsering trips to Israel through his synagogue every year.

His synagogue also educates youngsters about Israel's religious and cultural significance.

I guess I live in a different world than you and buzzsaw, where every "liberal" Jew is an anti-Zionist in league with Hamas.

Oh well.

299 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:56:08am
300 XMarine  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:56:35am

re: #252 buzzsawmonkey

A little of both.

People of my grandparents' generation fled a European antisemitism which, predating the Nazis, was almost entirely of Christian origin. They, and their children, faced antisemitism here too--in school admissions, restrictive covenants on land and exclusion from hotels, denied job opportunities--which was usually less ferocious overall than what they had left in Europe, but which still left scars. Having to deal with being beaten up for being a Jew at public school, or being told that "we don't hire Jews" is not as bad as having to fear Cossack raids and pogroms, but it's still hell to live through.

Exactly. That is what caused my grandfather to reject his Jewish roots which my ancestors previous to him, at great risk to their very lives, had cultivated since 1492. He kidnapped my father from my grandmother and raised him a Christian. Now I feel cheated of my heritage, and know, notwithstanding my identification with Jewish culture, that I will never fit into either Jewish or Gentile society. My grandfather's cowardly actions are far worse than his contemporaries cleaving to the left wing to avoid the antisemitism that came from the right.

301 Joel  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:57:48am

I tell you that I am not surprised and I doubt that Dick Morris is either.

302 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:58:09am
303 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 9:58:10am

re: #298 davesax

Interesting statement.

I live in an area represented by one of the leading reform synagogues in the country. The rabbi is outspoken in his liberal politics and a stalwart Zionist, sponsering trips to Israel through his synagogue every year.

His synagogue also educates youngsters about Israel's religious and cultural significance.

I guess I live in a different world than you and buzzsaw, where every "liberal" Jew is an anti-Zionist in league with Hamas.

Oh well.

I live in NJ. I never said their in league with Hamas. Most don't even know what Hamas is or what they stand for. As for being anti-zionist, well no, but many couldn't define zionist.

304 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:02:19am

re: #302 ploome hineni

Michael Bloomberg, NYC's liberal governor, is so ashamed of his Jewishness that he recently went to Israel and spoke at an AIPAC dinner.

All these generalizations about Jews - especially "liberal" ones - are entertaining. It's interesting having people who don't know anything about me tell me what I believe or not.

I better go look up Israel on that map!

305 Rancher  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:02:21am

re: #296 Kosh's Shadow

But when Mashiach comes (the Messiah), eventually, everyone gets the benefits.
He better come soon.

re: #244 gegenkritik He's already here.

306 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:02:57am

re: #303 Nevergiveup

Really, never?

OK...

307 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:05:05am

re: #304 davesax

Michael Bloomberg, NYC's liberal governor, is so ashamed of his Jewishness that he recently went to Israel and spoke at an AIPAC dinner.

All these generalizations about Jews - especially "liberal" ones - are entertaining. It's interesting having people who don't know anything about me tell me what I believe or not.

I better go look up Israel on that map!

Bloomberg NEVER EVER went to Israel till he decided to run for Mayor and then it was Rudy who dragged him there. His "trips" are usually 2 days long.

308 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:05:48am

re: #306 davesax

Really, never?

OK...

so were did I say that?

309 pupdawg  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:07:18am

re: #3 filetandrelease

surprise surprise surprise (Jethro)

...or Gomer Pyle played by Jim Nabors.

310 Rancher  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:07:24am

re: #298 davesax

I guess what I'm thinking is their liberalism outweighs their love of Israel.

311 NY Nana  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:07:29am

re: #176 FrogMarch

I predict Hillary to say once again "I am a strong supporter of Israel" - and all will be forgiven. The Clintons are masters at fence straddling.

Let Shrillary try to say that in front of me....so help me, I would spit in her mask face, and have a chorus at the ready, singing 'Liar, liar, pants on fire!', and have posters printed with this on them.

312 Maui Girl  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:07:39am

Buyer's remorse. If it hasn't kicked in by now with those who voted for this new administration let's pray that it does before the 2010 elections.

313 El Anti-Idiotario  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:09:02am

re: #299 buzzsawmonkey

That my father was a Jew was at least as much part of the campaign against him as the fact that he was an independent, when he bucked the local political establishment (run from a restricted country club) when he first ran for the local school board. And there was a strong element of "Can't you Jews shut up already and get over it?" when he led the campaign to oust the head of the custodial staff at my old high school, who was, it turned out, a former member of the Waffen SS and an ex-concentration camp guard.

The only thing I can say is Kol Hakavod (All of the respect ).

314 BLBfootballs  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:09:15am

The subtitle of the article is just precious:

Zuckerman, Lawmakers, Local Jews Say Secretary Of State Not The Hillary Clinton They Used To Know

Golly, where have we heard this before?!

"This just isn't the same Suha Arafat, Rev. Wright, Samantha Powers, Robert Malley, Mazen Asbahi, Tony Rezko, Rashid Khalidi, uh, Hillary Clinton we used to know...."

315 J.S.  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:09:27am

re: #303 Nevergiveup

There's been an interesting dust-up here in Canada. (I don't know if you've heard about this). The Minister of Immigration and Multiculturalism, Jason Kenny, came out and said that he would be reviewing whether or not the Canadian Arab Federation (CAF) would continue to receive government monies. Jason Kenny wanted to review their funding, because the CAF is so antisemitic and supportive of terrorist groups. Why should such an organization be in receipt of Canadian taxpayer's monies? Then the leader of the Toronto branch of the CAF called Jason Kenny names...which then led to other disputes. Eventually, though, the head of the whole CAF in Canada wrote a letter in defense of the CAF. Turns out he's a Christian Arab and in the letter he named all the Liberal Leftist Jews who also support the CAF (again the CAF which has come out in support of Hezbollah, Hamas, etc.) And, it is certainly no stretch whatsoever to say that the Leftist Jews supporting CAF also support Palestinian organizations dedicated to the destruction of the State of Israel...that's just "the reality."

316 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:09:37am

re: #307 Nevergiveup

For years, Bloomberg was the main speaker for Dor Chadash (look it up), as well. He also speaks at synagogues around the city.

Are you saying he's not really a supporter of Israel?

Um, OK.

317 Maui Girl  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:10:15am

re: #305 Rancher

re: #244 gegenkritik He's already here.

I expected to click on to your link and see a picture of the Obamamessiah. Harry Potter - that's pretty funny.

318 pupdawg  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:10:36am

Wind politics are Democrats forte...whichever way the wind blows or to the crowd that shows when they speak always polliticking!

319 yy  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:10:39am

I reminded many of my acquaintances about the Israel during the Clinton years. Fortunately, most observant Jews are (believe-it-or-not) right wingers. On social issues, many Jews are for less governmental interference, but on Israel, economics, gun rights, etc., we're there.

For those few, however, who were raised to believe Democrat=Loves Jews; Republican=KKK member, the facts never get in the way of belief.

Since it became clear that Obama was going to win the election, and certainly since November, I've had a feeling that we'll look back fondly upon the Clinton years...I've even shared that worry with some of these "old-school" democrats.

"O my prophetic soul!" (Hamlet, Act I, Scene V).

I really thought it would take a little longer before they realized.

320 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:10:46am

re: #315 J.S.

There's been an interesting dust-up here in Canada. (I don't know if you've heard about this). The Minister of Immigration and Multiculturalism, Jason Kenny, came out and said that he would be reviewing whether or not the Canadian Arab Federation (CAF) would continue to receive government monies. Jason Kenny wanted to review their funding, because the CAF is so antisemitic and supportive of terrorist groups. Why should such an organization be in receipt of Canadian taxpayer's monies? Then the leader of the Toronto branch of the CAF called Jason Kenny names...which then led to other disputes. Eventually, though, the head of the whole CAF in Canada wrote a letter in defense of the CAF. Turns out he's a Christian Arab and in the letter he named all the Liberal Leftist Jews who also support the CAF (again the CAF which has come out in support of Hezbollah, Hamas, etc.) And, it is certainly no stretch whatsoever to say that the Leftist Jews supporting CAF also support Palestinian organizations dedicated to the destruction of the State of Israel...that's just "the reality."

I kinda heard about it. I am not surprised.

321 Rancher  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:12:16am

re: #317 Maui Girl

I expected to click on to your link and see a picture of the Obamamessiah. Harry Potter - that's pretty funny.

It's all funny till the mushroom cloud comes.

322 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:13:15am

re: #316 davesax

For years, Bloomberg was the main speaker for Dor Chadash (look it up), as well. He also speaks at synagogues around the city.

Are you saying he's not really a supporter of Israel?

Um, OK.

His foundation gives money to alot of charities both Jewish and Non-Jewish. So that doesn't overly impress me. And since he never really showed mush interest in Israel till he was running for Mayor, I think that speaks for itself.

323 J.S.  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:14:12am

re: #320 Nevergiveup

It's actually even worse if you visit any of the Leftist Jewish websites (that's their vociferous support for the destruction of a "terrorist" state, and no, they're not talking about Arab terrorist states.) hence, I guess, their support for the Canadian Arab Federation.

324 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:15:33am

re: #323 J.S.

It's actually even worse if you visit any of the Leftist Jewish websites (that's their vociferous support for the destruction of a "terrorist" state, and no, they're not talking about Arab terrorist states.) hence, I guess, their support for the Canadian Arab Federation.

Well most liberal Jews I know don't call for the destruction of the State of Israel, they are just so naive to the political realities in both America and the World, it frightens me.

325 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:15:57am

re: #322 Nevergiveup

So that doesn't overly impress me.

Oh. Well, in that case...

326 Rancher  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:16:13am

re: #318 pupdawg

Wind politics are Democrats forte...whichever way the wind blows or to the crowd that shows when they speak always polliticking!

That is what made Clinton bearable and why he did far less damage than Jimmah. Obama won't bend however and that's what's really scary, he is a true socialist pacifist believer.

327 J.S.  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:16:43am

re: #324 Nevergiveup

The "leftists" here tend to be far more radical...(i could name the groups, but I have no desire to give them even more publicity).

328 NY Nana  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:17:16am

re: #273 Ben Hur

No problem here. I much prefer Chabad and frum friends to libs of any religion. And the misconceptions people, especially liberal Jews, have about Chabad are mind boggling.

My husband davens at the Chabad near us. And I was just on the phone talking to the Rabbi. We were amazed at how many members of the conservative Synagogue we belonged to for about 35 years had also left, and now go to the Chabad service. The conservative Synagogue has a female 'Rabbi'. That was it for us. We left.

329 Teacake!  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:21:02am
2 rawmuse

re: #216 Teacake!

davesax - and I guess you know but others aren't commenting on it, but the Far Right Christians expect Jews to convert.

Both religions are Messianic, no?

Not exactly. Different messiahs. Jews are not waiting for Jesus.

330 Rancher  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:21:07am

Davesax did you vote for Obama and does his current stance on Israel and Gaza surprise you?

331 reggie  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:21:34am

As I said in the past three elections, "I support [insert Republican candidate's name] for president because I support Israel."

That always went over well at shul after shabbos services.

332 NY Nana  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:32:14am

re: #315 J.S.

Here is an article from The National Post about MP Kenney. I wish that he could be cloned.

333 bolivar  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:36:59am

re: #103 ploome hineni

well said

/any satisfact I can gt from saying I told you so, is totally DESTROYED by the fact that we...all of us...are totally fucked

Ploome, I must agree but we can go to our fate knowing we did what we could - not much consolation however that is all we can muster at this juncture.

On a separate note, I have a young friend here at work not too long out of college who just cannot find anything wrong with Socialism. I counter that there has not been a successful socialist state yet and that it never will work because once people find the government will support them and they don't have to do a thing (or very little) it will fail miserably. He cannot get it through his head and I tell him he is just out of college where his socialist instructors (didn't go over too well) indoctrinated him and that he didn't have kids yet. You want them to do stuff and they have to be threatened or bribed into it (depending on how you feel about Dr. Spock). Kids will not do anything they don't HAVE to - unless they get something for the effort. Reward pays off and socialism cannot reward and continue to work......

I will keep working on the kid cuz it is a moral imperative.

334 tommygum  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:39:25am

re: #3 filetandrelease

surprise surprise surprise (Jethro)

Gomer Pyle.

335 AZDave  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:42:25am

Gee, was that a match I heard starting up the ovens? Ready for a "Jews under the bus" campaign?

336 AZDave  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:47:22am

re: #93 Grantman

Ha! Dov. You've always known who she is. She's whoever she wants to be at any given time. The woman has NO morals or ethics whatsoever.

Can we get a mulligan on the election?

Well, she really DID learn a lot from Bill!

337 Barking Pumpkin  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:48:04am

re: #110 Ben Hur

Not peep on the Captain Obvious pic, eh?

Pfft.

Too obvious.
/Ducks.

338 NY Nana  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:48:48am

For anyone who doubts Rudy's devotion to Israel, his first trip was in 1986....I would take him over Booberg any day.

[...]Time and time again, we have proven that we can count on one another. The strength of our relationship has been clear to me every time I have visited Israel, from my first trip in 1986 to more recent trips, when I have traveled there in the most unfortunate circumstances. I am proud of the way that New York City, and the United States, pulled together to stand by Israel after the death of Yitzhak Rabin, and I was deeply impressed by the way that the Israeli people handled themselves with dignity in the wake of that tragedy and so many others.[...]

See the whole article. Rudy is a true friend. End of case.

339 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 10:48:49am
340 baldeagle  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:02:26am

So, has good ole Sen Joe Lieberman from CONN had anything to say?

341 tommygum  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:02:52am

re: #57 Sharmuta

Indeed. I'm still wondering what she's getting in return for taking this position. There's more going on here, imo.

Its what her POS husband got......

342 BakiShamil  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:03:18am

re: #250 Walter L. Newton

I am sick and tired of clarifying things…..who needs clarifications nowadays….of course I can be more reasonable but at what cost, so savages deny me of my homeland

343 capitalist piglet  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:04:51am

re: #66 davesax

The reason many Jews voted for Obama has been perfectly recorded on this blog, having mainly to do with the GOP's failure to keep the Christian right-wing at bay.

Neither party is all "good for the Jews". It's really about the lesser of two evils at this point.

re: #127 rawmuse

I don't know why pro-Israel Jews would not want to be connected to the Christian Right, since that voting bloc is uniformly pro-Israel. I have some relations in Israel right now, doing Bible study, in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. They would fight and die for Israel without reservation.

Thank you both for offering your opinions on this. And thank you most especially for your post, rawmuse. I'm a Christian, and I am grieved to know that I am regarded as "the greater of two evils" when I don't know a single conservative Christian - including myself, of course - who does not love Israel.

I appreciate the honest perspective, davesax, but this impression is something that needs serious repair, because it is an absolutely false and dangerous belief, in my opinion.

It's like running from someone you don't know into an alley, and taking refuge in Jeffrey Dahmer's flat.

(I don't mean to offend anyone, or minimize anyone's concerns - I'm just genuinely sad to read that this is the case.)

344 panda  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:08:30am

As someone active on this front let me say that the Jewish community stays away from the Republican Party based mainly on three issues (don't shoot me, I'm just the messenger):

1) Abortion
2) Creationism (or Intelligent Design if you will)
3) Evangelical base (years of proselytizing to Jews have left most Jews deeply mistrustful).

None of these issues are critical national issues and yet the Republican Party clings to them as if they were equal to economic or foreign policy problems. When I tried, in the last election, to talk about the most important issues, namely terrorism and the economy I was simply told to look at Sarah Palin's tepid response to the Theory of Evolution.

Until and unless the Republican Party drops these issues from being high on the agenda they will not be able to broaden the base of support, Jewish or otherwise.

345 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:08:49am

According to the Politico, Obama is announcing a boycott of Durban II.

That's a good thing.

All this talk about liberals and Israel. It would be nice to see people discuss Israel and Israel.

The fact is that Israel's political system is completely and utterly dysfunctional. They keep regurgitating these failed politicians who declare victory for half-assed wars. Their PR machine is a joke.

In the meantime, settlers that the majority of the country does not support have power to keep building communities that are defended by an army that half these settlers won't join because of religious reasons.

346 Caboose  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:10:07am

re: #178 CommonCents

Europe names crew for Mars 'mission'. I can think of 438 + 1 politicians for the U.S. mission to Mars. In fact, that would be like sending them home.

No, if the mission were to Uranus, then THAT would be sending them home. (Uhhh, the Uranus reference was not meant to be personal there, CC!)

347 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:10:19am

re: #344 panda

Exactly, Panda.

Jewish culture values education.

GOP leaders, though, seem to value creationism.

348 XMarine  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:11:57am

re: #339 buzzsawmonkey

Thank you, BuzzSawMonkey for your comments. And thank you, NYMama for updininging his entry.

349 Sunlight  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:15:59am

re: #127 rawmuse

I don't know why pro-Israel Jews would not want to be connected to the Christian Right, since that voting bloc is uniformly pro-Israel. I have some relations in Israel right now, doing Bible study, in Hebrew, Greek and Aramaic. They would fight and die for Israel without reservation.

Many Christians would prefer that the Jews finally see the light and convert so that they won't burn in hell. My mother thought this. Also, at least in history, Christians who befriended the Jews, and apparently held the first-sentence view, even if not said out loud, ultimately turned on the Jews for staying Jewish. They took it as a personal insult. And so, even today, even in America, Jews are sometimes skittish.

350 capitalist piglet  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:19:19am

re: #349 Sunlight

Many Christians would prefer that the Jews finally see the light and convert so that they won't burn in hell. My mother thought this. Also, at least in history, Christians who befriended the Jews, and apparently held the first-sentence view, even if not said out loud, ultimately turned on the Jews for staying Jewish. They took it as a personal insult. And so, even today, even in America, Jews are sometimes skittish.

I'm unfamiliar with this. Who are you talking about, please?

351 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:19:36am
352 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:20:09am
353 capitalist piglet  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:21:55am

re: #352 ploome hineni

Martin Luther, for one

Thank you. I think in terms too contemporary...and I have much to learn.

354 Caboose  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:28:47am

re: #237 CommonCents

Thanks for the input leadhead lead-poisoned.

FTFY!

355 Sunlight  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:31:19am

re: #205 SFGoth

Just goes to prove that not all Jews are the smartest people in the world. Of course, they damn well knew what the game was, they just can't bring themselves to vote Republican.

I know some people who did in '04 because of national security. But their families and friends did interventions and they went back to the fold in '08.

356 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:40:00am
357 NY Nana  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:44:46am

re: #348 XMarine

G-d bless you, both for your honesty and for your service. It has to be very hard on you to carry what must be a burden for so long.

Not one single thing is your fault...but this clearly has hurt you so much. If there is an Orthodox Rabbi anywhere near you, I am sure that he would discuss your situation, and advise you.

It is possible that your grandfather had dealt with a case of blatant anti-Semitism that caused him enough emotional harm that thus caused him to do this, but why he did what he did to your grandfather, and hence to you? I cannot even try to comprehend.

358 gander  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:49:42am

Ironically (or tragically), Jews have foes far more dangerous by orders of magnitude than Jack Chick.

359 Ceemack  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:02:00pm
“Now, I wonder...who the real Hillary Clinton is.”


I forget who it was, but during one Clinton Administration scandal or another Hillary referred to one of the Administration's opponents as a "f***ing Jew bastard."

Seems to me that we already knew who the real Hillary Clinton was...at least as far as Jews are concerned.

The fact that your lawgiver was found floating in a basket in de Nile is no reason to live in denial of how liberal goy Democrats really feel about you.

360 Yashmak  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:22:59pm
“I liked her a lot more as a senator from New York,” Assemblyman Dov Hikind, D-Brooklyn, said. “Now, I wonder as I used to wonder who the real Hillary Clinton is.”

Meanwhile, the rest of us have merely had our views of who the real Hillary Clinton is reinforced. . . a grand political opportunist extraordinaire, just like she's always been.

361 Irenike  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:40:16pm

Republicans, according to Democrats, are: (1.) Malicious fat-cat capitalists who want to grind poor people under their boots, (2.) Stupid yes-men like GWB, (3.) Straw-chewing, unsophisticated Evangelical Christians who believe the earth was created a thousand years ago. How wonderfully contradictory all these images are, rather like the anti-Semitic bile that casts all Jews as Communists or capitalists (or both), as cosmopolitan or insular (or both), depending on the agenda of the speaker.

I come from a Christian family, but I married into a Jewish family sixteen years ago. Not once, as a "practicing"--but not yet converted Jew--have I ever, ever been approached by a Christian who tried to convert me. I have seen more unqualified support for Israel among devout American Christians than I have seen among secular Jews. I see more anti-Semitism coming from the American left than the right. So when I see folks on this board go off on how Jews distrust Republican Christians because of fear of pressure to convert, it dismays me to no end because I don't believe it is generally true of American Christians.

As for abortion and evolution issues in the Republican party, so what? I'm not hearing from young-earth creationists that Israel is a terrorist entity and needs to roll over and let its enemies obliterate it. I'm not hearing from pro-lifers that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. It's not Evangelicals who are stealing more of my hard-earned money so they can turn my beloved country into a socialist ruin. American has been so good to Jews and all people from oppressed nations. Jews have had more freedom here than they have had in any other country on earth. If Jews cannot see past the distasteful issues of abortion and evolution and realize who their real friends are (i.e., the Republicans), then they are unwittingly accepting the yoke of oppression around their necks again. Because if Jews keep making friends with today's liberal Democrats, oppression is exactly what is going to happen--what is happening-- not just to the Jews, but to us all.

362 hous bin pharteen  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 1:02:18pm

re: #21 buzzsawmonkey

As an ex-mortgage officer, and lending officer, I myself got sick of the stupid ideas and what I saw as the pending doom to those ideas. It mattered how much you made and much you were going to borrow and how you paid stuff in the past. It was simple logic, but the damn politics was more important. Now that bank needs more people to handle the bad debt. Gee, big suprise.

363 Twilight  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 1:32:44pm

re: #6 rawmuse

One would think that ordinary self preservation instincts would kick in at some point.

If they would've these guys would've been a long while in Israel right now, manning IDF command posts.

With the Neville administration - there isn't much of a choice.

364 CLLRusso  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 2:51:31pm

re: #361 Irenike
Being "almost" an Evangelical Christian I couldn't agree with you more.
"Almost" because I can't go with the evolution denial. After Bill Clinton hopefully Israeli Jews recognize the appeasement mindset off the Democratic Party. Even though I read the book "The Oslo Syndrome: Delusions of a people under siege." by Kenneth Levin, I don't understand how so many American Jews remain Democrats. I find it ironic that I get along with Israeli's much better than I get along with American Jews. Except for my dear Uncle Norman, may G-d rest his soul.

365 capitalist piglet  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 3:04:26pm

re: #361 Irenike

So beautifully articulated - thank you.

366 capitalist piglet  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 3:11:14pm

If anyone has the stomach to go slumming at DU, here's a thread where they're discussing this topic.

[Link: www.democraticunderground.com...]

367 danrudy  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 6:29:44pm

re: #300 XMarine

Exactly. That is what caused my grandfather to reject his Jewish roots which my ancestors previous to him, at great risk to their very lives, had cultivated since 1492. He kidnapped my father from my grandmother and raised him a Christian. Now I feel cheated of my heritage, and know, notwithstanding my identification with Jewish culture, that I will never fit into either Jewish or Gentile society. My grandfather's cowardly actions are far worse than his contemporaries cleaving to the left wing to avoid the antisemitism that came from the right.

It is sad but suprisingly common. You need not feel cheated out of a culture. There are plenty of communities that will welcome you with open arms (both Jewish and Gentile).
My own jewish community has many people who have "returned" to the faith or were brought up in homes without any religious backgrounds.


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Views: 87 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Texas County at Center of Border Fight Is Overwhelmed by Migrant Deaths EAGLE PASS, Tex. - The undertaker lighted a cigarette and held it between his latex-gloved fingers as he stood over the bloated body bag lying in the bed of his battered pickup truck. The woman had been fished out ...
Cheechako
2 weeks ago
Views: 258 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1