Obama Administration Pulls Out of Durban II

World • Views: 6,028

Here’s a little piece of good news: U.S. pulling out of racism conference.

White House aides told Jewish leaders on a conference call today that the United States will boycott the United Nations’ World Conference on Racism over hostility to Israel in draft documents prepared for the April conference.

The aides, including an advisor to U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice, Jennifer Simon, and longtime Obama advisor Samantha Power, said the administration will not participate in further negotiations on the current text or participate in a conference based on the text, sources on the call said.

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288 comments
1 kansas  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:04:23am

There has to be a caveat there somewhere.

2 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:04:25am

So they at least can get one thing right.

3 Elcid  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:04:31am

Well I’ll be damned…

4 _Remembertonyc  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:04:52am

the “clue stick” comes down

5 Elcid  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:05:11am

Who or whom, FINALLY woke up?

6 Bloodnok  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:05:22am

NASA: You didn’t see a UFO last week. What you saw was a Trial Balloon.

/that finger in the wind came down awfully cold, I see

7 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:05:43am

re: #1 kansas

There has to be a caveat there somewhere.

3 . .2 . .1 . .

They left open the option of re-engaging on a “much shorter, much different text,” a source said.
8 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:05:54am
9 Dianna  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:06:11am

They listened?!

Wow!

I’ll save the email addys I used, then. I didn’t think it would do any good, but I wrote anyway. Maybe it’s worth more than I thought!

10 mikalm  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:06:12am

Blind pig, meet acorn.

11 joncelli  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:06:13am

It’s good to know that some things are too noxious even for them.

12 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:06:21am

WHAT IS IN HIS BONG?

13 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:06:29am

re: #8 buzzsawmonkey

“Dammit, if Hillary had only kept her mouth shut and not riled up the Jewish vote, we could have stayed! And the buffet was going to be really good!”

—delegation

Lots of goat I hear.

14 Cygnus  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:06:29am

Is that the sound of aircraft engines running up? No, it’s just the flying pig going through his preflight checks.

15 nyc redneck  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:06:54am

it’s hard to trust these people even if they appear to be doing the right thing.

16 Pullus Iulius  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:06:55am

According to Holder, I guess we’re just being cowards again.

17 reine.de.tout  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:07:25am

Wow.
I wonder what happened?

18 Cygnus  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:07:29am

re: #13 Creeping Eruption

Lots of goat I hear.

No, they’re saving them for the floor show later on.

19 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:07:30am

re: #12 WriterMom

WHAT IS IN HIS BONG?

Durban poison.

20 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:07:39am
21 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:07:39am

OF course the comments are what you would expect.

22 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:07:52am

Now if we could just pull Obama out of the White House :(

23 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:08:04am

re: #19 Creeping Eruption

Durban poison.


Best sh*t in SA.

24 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:08:11am
25 Bloodnok  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:08:12am

re: #8 buzzsawmonkey

“Dammit, if Hillary had only kept her mouth shut and not riled up the Jewish vote, we could have stayed! And the buffet was going to be really good!”

—delegation

That was my first thought (though mine was not as funny).

26 Fat Jolly Penguin  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:08:23am
The aides, including an advisor to U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice, Jennifer Simon, and longtime Obama advisor Samantha Power

…were all royally pissed. NTTAWWT.

27 Pvt Bin Jammin  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:08:24am

Woot! Nice to have some good news for a change.

28 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:08:33am

This is just sleight of hand by a prestidigitator and master manipulator. O wants more control over the final objective and resolution text.

29 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:08:37am

re: #20 buzzsawmonkey

Oy to the Vey.

30 Wilderstad  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:08:44am

Well, well. Perhaps Durban II was too odious even for them.

31 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:08:44am

re: #23 Ben Hur

Best sh*t in SA.

Not that I would know anything about that.

32 jcm  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:08:44am

The Obama adminstration is playing both sides against the middle in the middle east. Picks Chas Freeman for the NIC, and pulls out of Durbin.

Good way to end up as road kill.

33 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:09:11am

re: #20 buzzsawmonkey

I think it was pretty clear Israel was going to be the goat.

/Must be our horns

34 mikalm  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:09:27am

re: #19 Creeping Eruption

Durban poison.

“You take the urban noise/with some Durban Poison/It’s gonna lessen your load/30 days in the hole” (Humble Pie)

35 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:09:40am

re: #32 jcm

Exactly. This is them walking a fine line between being obvious about their Israel hate, and trying to be subtle sometimes.

36 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:09:46am

Did they apologize first?

37 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:09:58am
38 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:10:21am

re: #36 karmic_inquisitor

Did they apologize first?

That’s what I was wondering.

39 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:10:29am

re: #35 WriterMom

Exactly. This is them walking a fine line between being obvious about their Israel hate, and trying to be subtle sometimes.

If this is subtle then I would hate to see what being obvious would be for this administration.

40 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:10:51am

See Israel? We pulled out of Durban II.

Can you please commit suicide now?

41 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:10:52am
42 nyc redneck  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:10:56am

re: #17 reine.de.tout

Wow.
I wonder what happened?

too much heat at the wrong time?
a plate full of other questionable/bad decisions from O.
cold feet abt. dealing w/ such blatant monstrous scum.
he had to back off.

43 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:11:04am

Holy Shitzky

Obama Sets Pull Out Date for Iraq!

Hello Al Qeida, Hizballah, Taliban-just wanted you to put this on your calendars! GA GA GAAAAAAAAA!

44 vxbush  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:11:31am

Wait—they were involved before, and this seems an amazingly quick turnaround. Are they going to stick to this position, now?

45 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:11:33am

re: #43 WriterMom

Holy Shitzky

Obama Sets Pull Out Date for Iraq!

Hello Al Qeida, Hizballah, Taliban-just wanted you to put this on your calendars! GA GA GAAAAAAAAA!

I’m with you on this one.

I think Mookie has been waiting in the wings.

46 DaddyG  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:11:40am

OT - at the end of the last thread and in reply to redstateredneck linking the TX legislature sovereignty reaffirmation I wrote to my state representatives.

“Senator __________ and Representative _____________

Texas is considering reaffirming their sovereignty under article 10 of the United States Constitution.

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/BillLookup/History. aspx?LegSess=81R&Bill=HCR50

“Affirming that the State of Texas claims sovereignty under the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States over all powers not otherwise enumerated and granted to the federal government by the U.S. Constitution, serving notice to the federal government to cease and desist certain mandates, and providing that certain federal legislation be prohibited or repealed.”

Given the expansion of federal powers the current administration is proposing it may be warranted for the State of ___________ to send a message to Washington DC about who the government of the United States belongs too.

I appeal to you to consider this as a course of action for our State legislature. I appreciate your service to our state and my family.”

Use it if you want. You can find your legislative representatives easily with this site: http://www.votesmart.org/index.htm

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread. (I really should learn how to do spinoff links)

47 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:11:51am

Chewish “Leaders” suffer dislocated shoulders from patting themselves on the back.

48 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:12:18am

OK - really - this will be the last anagram for a while

Obama Administration -> A Rabid Imams Nation

49 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:12:21am

re: #45 Ben Hur

Mookie Looks for Nookie?

50 Dan Tanna  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:12:21am

re: #1 kansas

There has to be a caveat there somewhere.

Im skeptical….
O probably ordered the pull out because he figured he could get lots of flak from Congress.

O has his eyes set on passing the budget and driving American towards socialism….and he doesnt want any distractions.

Thus his cozying and coddling of terrorists and Jew haters will have to wait for another day.

51 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:12:25am

re: #47 Alouette

Chewish “Leaders” suffer dislocated shoulders from patting themselves on the back.

13th Tribe?

52 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:13:04am

OMG I have to do work! WAAAA.

Ciao.

53 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:13:29am

re: #45 Ben Hur

I’m with you on this one.

I think Mookie has been waiting in the wings.

A signal intercept has Mookie saying that there will be about 2 million Sunni dead after we bail.

Hope! Change!

54 Viking6  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:14:40am

re: #10 mikalm

Blind pig, meet acorn.

Sorry I believe that the One is already well acquainted with the ACORN

/

55 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:14:50am

What they say in public is not necessarily what they do in private. That’s all I gotta say about that.

56 karmic_inquisitor  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:14:52am

re: #48 karmic_inquisitor

OK - really - this will be the last anagram for a while

Obama Administration -> A Rabid Imams Nation

PIMF - TO a rabid imams nation

/ even worse.

57 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:14:52am

re: #50 Dan Tanna

Im skeptical….
O probably ordered the pull out because he figured he could get lots of flak from Congress.

O has his eyes set on passing the budget and driving American towards socialism….and he doesnt want any distractions.

Thus his cozying and coddling of terrorists and Jew haters will have to wait for another day.

Actually I think a distraction is exactly what he does want, and this gives the media something positive to talk about. The last thing he wants is people focusing on his socialist maneuverings.

58 Dianna  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:15:15am

re: #24 buzzsawmonkey

Holder is going to ensure that we become a nation of Clowards.

Very clever!

59 zombie  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:16:02am

This is the first indication that Obama will actually cave to pressure (from anyone other than the far left). So, it is very good news indeed. Seems like they’ve fallen for their own trap: Accuse them of being racist, or “going along” with racism, and they with recoil in horror and do whatever you say. (Which is what they think their opponents [i.e. us] will do when they falsely accuse us of racism.)

So, let us remember this lesson:

In order to get the Obama administration to cave on an issue, point out the racism inherent in whatever policy we want changed or scuttled.

This should come in very handy over the next four years.

60 zombie  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:16:25am

re: #48 karmic_inquisitor

OK - really - this will be the last anagram for a while

Obama Administration -> A Rabid Imams Nation

I like that one!

61 Aviator  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:16:44am

I’m sure we can still send someone to lick asses there on the down low.

62 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:17:03am

LIsten guys, we agree with what you want to do here, but, you understand, we can fund you, etc, but there’s this one little problem, which we all share….You have them, we have them. Just in our country, we need their $ to get elected……..So we’re out of here.

63 Sharmuta  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:17:17am

Please note- I said on the previous thread about the Iraq withdraw that it comes right before the mid-term elections. That is not a fluke. This way the 0bama administration can keep a campaign promise in time for the election cycle hoping they won’t be held to account for it not being immediate. If we don’t pick up seats in both houses of Congress, there will be no one to fight against this. It’s very calculated.

64 Steve Rogers  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:17:31am

Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

65 Bloodnok  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:17:36am

re: #42 nyc redneck

too much heat at the wrong time?
a plate full of other questionable/bad decisions from O.
cold feet abt. dealing w/ such blatant monstrous scum.
he had to back off.

Either that or promise something bad that you may not intend to follow through on -then look like a hero when you say you won’t do it. Though I do agree with you that it was too much heat for them too soon that led to this. They could be tossing their detractors a bone. They are truly playing both sides here.

66 HelloDare  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:18:09am

Obama botched another one. This will be used as evidence by some that the Jews control American foreign policy. Would have been much better if we never attended in the first place. Now Obama is seen as weak. I hope he learned something from this, but I doubt it.

67 vagabond trader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:18:27am

Too damned late. They wanted to participate knowing full well the kind of “anti” this conference was going to be.

68 Dan Tanna  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:18:27am

re: #57 Ford_Prefect

Actually I think a distraction is exactly what he does want, and this gives the media something positive to talk about. The last thing he wants is people focusing on his socialist maneuverings.

I agree…but in this case….O is focused like a laser beam on this budget…and is so arrogant, and feels the media has his back that participating in Durban would just cause him headaches and a rallying cry against him.

69 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:18:29am
70 DaddyG  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:18:37am

re: #59 zombie

Alynski = RULES FOR RADICALS #4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity’s very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)

O ought to recognize that tactic. I like it.

71 joncelli  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:19:09am

re: #53 karmic_inquisitor

A signal intercept has Mookie saying that there will be about 2 million Sunni dead after we bail.

Hope, change, and an Iranian invasion of Iraq… (2 million!).

72 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:19:21am

re: #43 WriterMom

Holy Shitzky

Obama Sets Pull Out Date for Iraq!

Hello Al Qeida, Hizballah, Taliban-just wanted you to put this on your calendars! GA GA GAAAAAAAAA!

I noticed the man is being very devious. He is not talking about a total pullout, he’s touting an end to combat operations by August 2010 and pulling out MOST troops. Blatant pandering to both sides is what he is doing.

The timing of the pullout frankly stinks mightily of partisan politics. The pullout coincides with the run-up to Congressional elections.

73 gmsc  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:19:47am

I only see in the story where the 0bama administration told Jewish leaders they were pulling out of the conference.

Remember, this is the 0bama administration, so we must question as to whether they’re actually going to do so.

Did any of the Jewish leaders ask about Saudi shill Charles Freeman heading the NIC? I bet they’re not thrilled with that.

But then, 77% of the Jews voted for 0bama, so it’s not like this is being forced on them.

74 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:19:55am

I guess they had to pull out after their apology was rejected.

Now if we could just get the administration to pull out of the entire UN.

75 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:20:24am

OT:

OT: Kind of like the news that Obama is pulling out of Durban, sometimes I too enjoy throwing people off balance.

Yesterday I was with my young kids and ran into someone I had not seen in a very long time. This person is a real “Type A” personality, always striving to work harder, go farther, etc.

We started talking about our kids and he ended up asking what I wanted my kids to be when they grow up.

I was going to lie, and give him my canned response to such questions and tell him: “They can be anything they want to be; either a lawyer or a doctor.”

Instead I told him the truth: “To be happy.”

76 Gus  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:21:07am

Not unlike the passive-aggressive characteristics of the leftist. The swing from one manic position only to withdraw into a form of depression. The die has already been cast by displaying such high interest in this conference.

While Obama may have pulled out of this conference in the end he has shown America were his true interests lie. In the end he more than likely made this decision not because it was in the best interests of our allies but that it would expose his darkest intentions and further his expose his true face.

As someone mentioned above, there is no doubt that Barack Obama will seek a more secretive alternative to meet his goals of creating “new alliances” with the criminal (terrorist) elements of the world community.

77 gatorbait  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:21:55am

Think he will change his mind again?

78 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:22:10am

This, and republic’s previous link to Pelosi throwing cold water on Assault Weapons Ban II, are the best news I’ve heard in days.

79 GoIllini  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:22:27am

It just wasn’t the Durban they used to know…

80 filetandrelease  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:22:41am

This administrations is all the place. Confused, befuddled, come to mind.

81 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:22:52am
82 vagabond trader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:22:52am

lol, cannot even stick with their lack of principals.

83 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:22:54am

re: #43 WriterMom

AQ is finished in Iraq. But the Iranians are smiling and marking their calenders.

84 SummerSong  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:23:01am

I am grateful for any good news these days.

85 HelloDare  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:23:02am

Obama has rescinded his choice of a Portuguese Water Spaniel and will now get a Belgium Waffle Dog.

86 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:23:07am

re: #73 gmsc

Remember, this is the 0bama administration, so we must question as to whether they’re actually going to do so.

True, of course.

Tomorrow he’ll perhaps address CAIR and gush with enthusiasm over our participation in Durban II.

87 Raven1  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:23:08am

Hmmmm… Smells like chicken. Probably Air Force one was told some terrorists got hold of the latest SAM Missiles.

88 Nature  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:23:14am

Naziberalism, Naziberlas and Muslimists

As I look at the sway of the liberal left into the hands of fascism and Nazism, and it’s endorsement of the Islamic extremist. I find that traditional terminologies fail to pin point the moving shift of politics. I call to update terminologies to ease the description of the current political shifts. I suggest the following new terminologies:
1. Naziberalism to describe the liberal left who in fact are the heir of the Nazi spirit- combination of Nazism and Liberalism.
2. Naziberal, combination of Nazi and Liberal. Best examples of Naziberals are George Galloway, Ken Livingston, Caryl Churchill, etc.
3. Muslimist to describe the missing link between the Islamist and the law obeying Muslim. This term describes the silent Muslim who do not participate in violent acts but give tacit support for extremists by donations to terror organisation, support of non violent Jihad, support establishment of Sharia law in the West, etc. I am afraid that the large minority (a majority?) of Muslims could be the reclassified as actual Muslimists.

89 Eowyn2  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:23:14am

re: #1 kansas

There has to be a caveat there somewhere.

why do I get the feeling that the language was also sexist?

90 gmsc  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:23:16am

re: #77 gatorbait

Think he will change his mind again?

Every one of his promises come with expiration dates to begin with, so it is a distinct possibility.

91 Shr_Nfr  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:23:23am

Now if we could only pull out of the UN too…

92 Opinionated  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:23:50am

But meanwhile

U.S. Helps Palestinians Build Force for Security

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

And


Mitchell could support PA unity gov’t

[Link: www.jpost.com…]

The US is training Fatah and encouraging they unite with Hamas.

In simple terms, the US is training a terrorist army to fight Israel.

Don’t say you didn’t know.

93 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:23:55am
94 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:24:06am

re: #81 buzzsawmonkey

Ward Churchill was one of the few who decided to forego the doctor and lawyer options and go straight for Indian chief.

Why sue, when you can BE a Sioux?

95 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:24:20am

I think this is a huge piece of good news.

Credit
where
credit
is
due.

96 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:24:21am

re: #66 HelloDare

Dare, you know, this is a very good point. I was thinking the same thing for a few days.

But I realized: had he not even entertained the fact, he would have been accused of the same thing, anyway.

By actually looking at the content of the Durban II declarations before boycotting, he’s actually doing a very rational thing by stating, “Well, I really wanted to give it a shot, but the content is so inflammatory I just can’t do it.”

When you think about it, it’s the perfect argument against those who would blame Jewish power for his decision.

But then again, people coming from that perspective aren’t interested in facts.

So, I don’t think it makes a difference.

Sadly enough.

97 Killer Tomato  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:24:25am

re: #74 Kosh’s Shadow

I guess they had to pull out after their apology was rejected.

Now if we could just get the administration to pull out of the entire UN.

I’d be happy if they’d pull out of Washington.

98 bj  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:24:43am

So a few emails, letters and phone calls went to the WH about Durban II and many were from Jews. So what? If no one speaks up, nothing gets done. If that’s “control”, amein, so be it. The obamanation can thank their lucky stars somebody finally listened to voices of reason. Now, if he turns the apologists loose …. Feh!

99 Vicious Babushka  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:24:57am

re: #92 Opinionated

But meanwhile

U.S. Helps Palestinians Build Force for Security

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

And

Mitchell could support PA unity gov’t

[Link: www.jpost.com…]

The US is training Fatah and encouraging they unite with Hamas.

In simple terms, the US is training a terrorist army to fight Israel.

Don’t say you didn’t know.

I love the smell of burning hoops in the morning!

100 MarineMomSue  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:24:58am

re: #81 buzzsawmonkey

Ward Churchill was one of the few who decided to forego the doctor and lawyer options and go straight for Indian chief.

Now that’s funny! LOL

101 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:25:10am

Well I just got home and am first hearing this news here. Good for them. I’ll give credit were credit is due. Why they had to play their little game of trying to “influence” a bunch of lunatics I’ll never understand, but they did the right thing in the end.

102 jcm  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:25:14am

Samatha Powers and Chas Freeman.

The true agenda of the Obama adminstration vis-a-v Israel is painfully obvious.

“As long as the United States continues unconditionally to provide the subsidies and political protection that make the Israeli occupation and the high-handed and self-defeating policies it engenders possible, there is little, if any, reason to hope that anything resembling the former peace process can be resurrected.”
Chas Freeman

Another longstanding foreign policy flaw is the degree to which special interests dictate the way in which the “national interest” as a whole is defined and pursued…. America’s important historic relationship with Israel has often led foreign policy decision-makers to defer reflexively to Israeli security assessments, and to replicate Israeli tactics, which, as the war in Lebanon last summer demonstrated, can turn out to be counter-productive.
Samantha Powers

103 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:25:15am
104 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:25:27am

re: #95 Cato the Elder


Me, too, Cato.

I’m with you on this.

105 DaddyG  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:26:02am

re: #46 DaddyG Ken K - you dinged me down on this one. Any chance you will post why? (Was it the concept or my reposting it off topic?)

You can be honest - I don’t bite.

106 Eowyn2  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:26:04am

re: #72 FurryOldGuyJeans

I noticed the man is being very devious. He is not talking about a total pullout, he’s touting an end to combat operations by August 2010 and pulling out MOST troops. Blatant pandering to both sides is what he is doing.

The timing of the pullout frankly stinks mightily of partisan politics. The pullout coincides with the run-up to Congressional elections.

you noticed that too? I noted it a few days ago when I heard it on the radio.

107 brookly red  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:26:11am

re: #1 kansas

There has to be a caveat there somewhere.

“on the current text or participate”… there is your caveat.

108 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:26:18am

re: #92 Opinionated

But meanwhile

U.S. Helps Palestinians Build Force for Security

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

And

Mitchell could support PA unity gov’t

[Link: www.jpost.com…]

The US is training Fatah and encouraging they unite with Hamas.

In simple terms, the US is training a terrorist army to fight Israel.

Don’t say you didn’t know.

Supporting a “Unity” government is supporting Hamas.

109 yma o hyd  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:26:28am

re: #43 WriterMom

Holy Shitzky

Obama Sets Pull Out Date for Iraq!

Hello Al Qeida, Hizballah, Taliban-just wanted you to put this on your calendars! GA GA GAAAAAAAAA!

On the other hand - that halo of his is very much reduced in that photo …

(Gotta find something to celebrate in that madness!)

110 Ford_Prefect  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:26:31am

re: #93 buzzsawmonkey

Baby steps.

Looks like they tripped over a twig of righteousness.

111 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:26:43am

re: #99 Alouette

I love the smell of burning hoops in the morning!

Smells like … terrorism.

112 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:27:08am

re: #103 buzzsawmonkey

He went much feather with much less than he would have if he’d chosen another option.

I dunno… with a successful law career, you can navajo lot of money if you play your cards right. I consider my graduation from law school to be a seminole moment in my career.

113 Opinionated  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:27:13am

re: #99 Alouette

I love the smell of burning hoops in the morning!

Me? I prefer the sight of burning Hamas and other terrorists.

114 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:27:18am

re: #92 Opinionated

But meanwhile

U.S. Helps Palestinians Build Force for Security

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

And


Mitchell could support PA unity gov’t

[Link: www.jpost.com…]

The US is training Fatah and encouraging they unite with Hamas.

In simple terms, the US is training a terrorist army to fight Israel.

Don’t say you didn’t know.


Mitchell can support it all he wants.

No government in Israel will deal with a Pali “government” with SAMAH

115 HelloDare  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:27:38am

re: #96 davesax

Better if we never went. At least he would be seen as taking a strong position.

116 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:28:06am

re: #95 Cato the Elder

I think this is a huge piece of good news.

Credit
where
credit
is
due.

I agree, with a caveat; as others here have pointed out, Obama is unusually prone (even by politician standards) to saying whatever the audience that happens to be standing in front of him at the moment wants to hear.

117 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:28:07am

re: #81 buzzsawmonkey

Ward Churchill was one of the few who decided to forego the doctor and lawyer options and go straight for Indian chief.

/Yes, but is he happy?

I would posit that one so deranged in their world-view is hopelessly stuck in a miasma of bitterness and anger.

118 Wishing  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:28:09am

So, did Rice have a conversion experience?

119 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:28:16am

I’m skeptical of the unity government approach. I think it’s purely diplomatic and has no substance.

Every serious middle east analyst knows that Hamas and Fatah loathe each other.

It won’t work, and I doubt many people in Obama’s administration believe it will, either.

120 HelloDare  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:28:28am

Durban 2, Obama 1.

121 NYCHardhat  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:28:42am

Obama Admin: 1

The rest of the world: 40

122 Opinionated  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:29:39am

re: #108 Nevergiveup

Supporting a “Unity” government is supporting Hamas.

When they unite, they can compare notes. Is US traing better then Iranian training or visa versa.

Which helps get more Israelis murdered?

123 dentate  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:29:58am

re: #112 Occasional Reader

I dunno… with a successful law career, you can navajo lot of money if you play your cards right. I consider my graduation from law school to be a seminole moment in my career.

Soon you’ll be eating crow.

124 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:30:06am

Call me cynical, but I can’t stop thinking Obama is gonna demand something in return from Israel for not supporting Durban. Like opening all the X points to Gaza and no expansion of any kind on the West Bank. That would be a very Clintonesqe type of thing to do.

125 Randall Gross  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:30:53am

Good decision, but you have to wonder what the response would have been without the rational limelights focused on this problematic conference persistently.

Now that’s called non hysterical effectiveness, I’ll thank Charles for his efforts here.

126 yma o hyd  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:30:55am

re: #70 DaddyG

Alynski = RULES FOR RADICALS #4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.” If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity’s very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)

O ought to recognize that tactic. I like it.

Use it, everybody!

127 brookly red  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:31:00am

re: #124 Nevergiveup

Call me cynical, but I can’t stop thinking Obama is gonna demand something in return from Israel for not supporting Durban. Like opening all the X points to Gaza and no expansion of any kind on the West Bank. That would be a very Clintonesqe type of thing to do.

damn, your good…

128 Bloodnok  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:31:15am

re: #63 Sharmuta

Please note- I said on the previous thread about the Iraq withdraw that it comes right before the mid-term elections. That is not a fluke. This way the 0bama administration can keep a campaign promise in time for the election cycle hoping they won’t be held to account for it not being immediate. If we don’t pick up seats in both houses of Congress, there will be no one to fight against this. It’s very calculated.

Republican Strategists Reading This Blog: Start working NOW to formulate a plan to neutralize 0bama’s positives from this during the ‘10 election cycle. You have 18 months. Start now.

129 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:31:31am

re: #123 dentate

Soon you’ll be eating crow.

I was hungry for more crow, but it’s al gon. Quin I have another helping?

130 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:31:49am

re: #127 brookly red

damn, your good…

No, I’m just 54 and have seen this all before. Ain’t nothing new out there.

131 kansas  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:32:00am

The administration will not participate in further negotiations on the current text or participate in a conference based on the text, sources on the call said.

What about a different text? What about a conference not based upon the text? Great news.////

132 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:33:12am

re: #97 Killer Tomato

I’d be happy if they’d pull out of Washington.

I do think it was better when it was simply a mosquito ridden swamp.

133 RaiderDan  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:33:26am

Perhaps Mort Zuckerman’s words carry more weight than we thought.

Either that or Hillary is sending a back-channel message of her own to the O through a leaked story.

She doesn’t want to be a one-term Secretary of State either.

134 DaddyG  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:33:31am

re: #79 GoIllini I dinged you up for your nic! (UofI B.S. 1991)

135 Cato the Elder  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:33:45am

re: #116 Occasional Reader

I agree, with a caveat; as others here have pointed out, Obama is unusually prone (even by politician standards) to saying whatever the audience that happens to be standing in front of him at the moment wants to hear.

Unusually so? You have too much respect for other politicians.

And are you saying we won’t pull out after all? Announcing it in advance seems pretty clear.

Were he just looking to make reassuring noises, he’d say something like “I have grave concerns about this and the US will not take part until those concerns are addressed.”

But no - we’re pulling out first. If magic fairy dust settles on the Durban II dictators and they reverse their plans, I guess we might reconsider. But clearly Obama doesn’t see that happening.

136 brookly red  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:34:13am

re: #130 Nevergiveup

No, I’m just 54 and have seen this all before. Ain’t nothing new out there.

experience & treachery will overcome youth & enthusiasm every time :)

137 gonecamping  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:34:24am

Is that from the Official Obama Office of Appeasement, you know…the one headed up by the Wuss Czar?

re: #61 Aviator

I’m sure we can still send someone to lick asses there on the down low.

138 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:34:27am

It’s true that if this pans out, it’s a good thing. And yet… coupled with Hillary’s recent “bad, evil Israelis, why don’t you help Gaza more?” outburst, you get the same impression of “not ready for prime time” that’s whipsawing the stock market on the economic front.

139 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:34:37am

I don’t think there should be an expansion of West Bank settlements.

I would serve in the IDF to defend Israel. But to put my life on the line for settlements - many of which are populated by Brooklynites who won’t raise a rifle in the IDF - that ultimately threaten Israeli democracy?

No thanks.

140 Kosh's Shadow  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:34:37am

re: #129 Occasional Reader

I was hungry for more crow, but it’s al gon. Quin I have another helping?

Mo! Hi can have some more.

141 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:34:47am

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say this probably wasn’t Obama’s decision.

142 Opinionated  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:34:56am

re: #114 Ben Hur

Mitchell can support it all he wants.

No government in Israel will deal with a Pali “government” with SAMAH

The line at which Israel says NO to some suicidal concession is forever withdrawing.

Read Caroline Glick on how Obama/Clinton/Mitchell are prepared to fuck with Netanyahu.

[Link: www.jpost.com…]

143 HelloDare  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:35:02am

re: #63 Sharmuta

Please note- I said on the previous thread about the Iraq withdraw that it comes right before the mid-term elections. That is not a fluke. This way the 0bama administration can keep a campaign promise in time for the election cycle hoping they won’t be held to account for it not being immediate. If we don’t pick up seats in both houses of Congress, there will be no one to fight against this. It’s very calculated.

Republicans should remind people that Obama’s senate bill if passed would have mandated all combat troops out of Iraq by March 31, 2008, in effect handing victory to the terrorists.

144 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:35:15am

How Hollywood likes its Jews

The narrative of Israel has become increasingly uncomfortable for the limousine left of Hollywood. Not necessarily because of the specifics of occupation and overkill. No, there are wider problems with these Israelis. Their story arc doesn’t work.

They are neither cutesy, comedic Yiddishers nor noble, chiseled, ascetically moral kibbutzniks. They bear as much resemblance to Zohan as Adam Sandler does to Tzipi Livni. Israelis are complicated, angry, unhappy, family-oriented, insular, often flawed human-beings.
Perhaps, in the Hollywood context, the problem with these Israelis, is that they are not identifiable as Jews at all.

The story of how Hollywood likes its Jews has been told before, of course, never more succinctly - or with a heavier cargo of irony - than when Kate Winslet played a satirized version of herself in a 2005 episode of the U.K. series “Extras.”

Winslet, then winless in four trips to the Oscar nomination altar, explains to series star Ricky Gervais, why she’s decided to act in a Holocaust film.

Gervais: You doing this, it’s so commendable, using your profile to keep the message alive about the Holocaust.

Winslet: God, I’m not doing it for that. We definitely don’t need another film about the Holocaust, do we? It’s like, how many have there been? You know, we get it. It was grim. Move on.

I’m doing it because I noticed that if you do a film about the Holocaust, you’re guaranteed an Oscar. I’ve been nominated four times. Never won. The whole world is going, ‘Why hasn’t Winslet won one?’ … That’s why I’m doing it. Schindler’s bloody List. The Pianist. Oscars coming outta their ass …

Gervais: It’s a good plan.

(please note: the interview was from a satire Winslet & Gervais acted in)

145 Eowyn2  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:35:26am

re: #92 Opinionated

But meanwhile

U.S. Helps Palestinians Build Force for Security

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]

And


Mitchell could support PA unity gov’t

[Link: www.jpost.com…]

The US is training Fatah and encouraging they unite with Hamas.

In simple terms, the US is training a terrorist army to fight Israel.

Don’t say you didn’t know.

Unfortunately, I’m not in the least surprised.

146 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:35:37am

re: #132 FurryOldGuyJeans

I do think it was better when it was simply a mosquito ridden swamp.

Hey! I [swat] resemble that remark.

147 albusteve  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:35:40am

re: #123 dentate

Soon you’ll be eating crow.

Ute are pretty good with puns

148 Wishing  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:35:59am

re: #139 davesax

I don’t think there should be an expansion of West Bank settlements.

I would serve in the IDF to defend Israel. But to put my life on the line for settlements - many of which are populated by Brooklynites who won’t raise a rifle in the IDF - that ultimately threaten Israeli democracy?

No thanks.

OY. No other word for that….

149 DaddyG  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:36:00am

Pull out but not pull out is becoming a theme… Gitmo, Iraq, Durban II…

Now we know what it looks like when the Commander In Chief votes “present”.

150 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:36:35am

re: #140 Kosh’s Shadow

Mo! Hi can have some more.

A pach. E-gads!

151 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:36:55am

re: #135 Cato the Elder

And are you saying we won’t pull out after all? Announcing it in advance seems pretty clear.

Again, this is so far a third hand report on a conference call to Jewish leaders, who wanted to hear it. I will wait for an official announcement, and followthrough, before popping the champagne cork.

152 Wishing  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:36:56am

re: #149 DaddyG

Pull out but not pull out is becoming a theme… Gitmo, Iraq, Durban II…

Now we know what it looks like when the Commander In Chief votes “present”.

Put your left foot in, take your left foot out…

153 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:37:04am

re: #141 Ben Hur

I’m guessing Hillary recommended pulling out, while Samantha Powers took a hissy fit.

154 albusteve  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:37:27am

re: #150 MrSilverDragon

A pach. E-gads!

I Hopi you can do better than that

155 yma o hyd  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:37:48am

re: #102 jcm

Samatha Powers and Chas Freeman.

The true agenda of the Obama adminstration vis-a-v Israel is painfully obvious.

“As long as the United States continues unconditionally to provide the subsidies and political protection that make the Israeli occupation and the high-handed and self-defeating policies it engenders possible, there is little, if any, reason to hope that anything resembling the former peace process can be resurrected.”
Chas Freeman

Another longstanding foreign policy flaw is the degree to which special interests dictate the way in which the “national interest” as a whole is defined and pursued…. America’s important historic relationship with Israel has often led foreign policy decision-makers to defer reflexively to Israeli security assessments, and to replicate Israeli tactics, which, as the war in Lebanon last summer demonstrated, can turn out to be counter-productive.
Samantha Powers

Ah.
Now this ‘retreat’ makes sense.
It got the ‘special interests’ out into the open, and PB0, with Powers can now tell his supproters ‘see, we treid, but those damn Jooos interfered’.
Next time round, when its vitally important for Israel - no retreat any more, PB0 can’t bow to ‘special interests’.

Someone who used this tactic was Chairman Mao …

156 brookly red  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:38:07am

re: #141 Ben Hur

I’m gonna go out on a limb here and say this probably wasn’t Obama’s decision.

With all due respect sir, do you really think that he make any decisions?

157 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:38:32am

re: #139 davesax

I don’t think there should be an expansion of West Bank settlements.

I would serve in the IDF to defend Israel. But to put my life on the line for settlements - many of which are populated by Brooklynites who won’t raise a rifle in the IDF - that ultimately threaten Israeli democracy?

No thanks.

That’s a gross simplification of what is going on. Most of the expansion now a days is natural expansion. People having families etc. They are not building new settlements, with the possible exception of around Jerusalem. And the majority of people living on the West Bank are NOT Americans.

158 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:38:40am

re: #147 albusteve

Ute are pretty good with puns

Yes, we’re very Cree-ative.

159 Wishing  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:39:02am

re: #154 albusteve

I Hopi you can do better than that

Come and Che what I just bought!

160 dentate  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:39:13am

re: #129 Occasional Reader

I was hungry for more crow, but it’s al gon.

I nuit!

161 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:39:20am

re: #154 albusteve

I Hopi you can do better than that

Yokutz me to the bone asking that!

162 The Optimist  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:39:23am

I do not want to call this a miracle. I want to think that it was Obama’s plan all along to make an appearance then pull out.
In any event, the right decision was made.

I am positive that LGF and other blogs and internet sites played a major role in the decision to pull out.

Thanks to all who read or wrote on the topic.

163 FurryOldGuyJeans  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:39:29am

re: #146 Occasional Reader

Hey! I [swat] resemble that remark.

At least when DC was a mosquito filled swamp, the mosquitoes simply bit you to suck blood and infected you with malaria. With DC politicians they want blood AND all your money, and infect you with bigger government and Socialism.

164 jcm  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:40:17am

re: #158 Occasional Reader

Yes, we’re very Cree-ative.

I Haida puns.

165 pygmalienation  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:40:24am

Finally! Some news from this administration I can cheer! Woo-hoo!
A modicum of sanity at last.

166 Colonel Panik  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:40:25am

re: #124 Nevergiveup

Call me cynical, but I can’t stop thinking Obama is gonna demand something in return from Israel for not supporting Durban. Like opening all the X points to Gaza and no expansion of any kind on the West Bank. That would be a very Clintonesqe type of thing to do.

To paraphrase the Daleks…

“triangulate…triangulate…triangulate…”

167 gymmom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:40:54am

re: #161 MrSilverDragon

Yokutz me to the bone asking that!

This is getting to be quite a mound of puns.

168 Opinionated  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:40:59am

re: #139 davesax

I don’t think there should be an expansion of West Bank settlements.

I would serve in the IDF to defend Israel. But to put my life on the line for settlements - many of which are populated by Brooklynites who won’t raise a rifle in the IDF - that ultimately threaten Israeli democracy?

No thanks.

The cream of the crop of the IDF is today more and more from exactly this segment of Israeli society that you detest.

And your crap that most are “Brooklynites” or other then native Sabras is out and out Arab propaganda and a lie.

169 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:41:10am

re: #149 DaddyG

Pull out but not pull out is becoming a theme… Gitmo, Iraq, Durban II…

Hey, maybe that was it? Sec Def Gates bumped into Susan Rice in the West Wing hall, their files fell on the floor and they got them all mixed up. Rice then goes into meet with Obama, he looks at the notes,

“So ummm, it says here ummm, we’re pulling out…”

That’s the only sensible explanation.

170 reggie  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:41:20am

The withdrawal might explain the week’s earlier news of only tepid criticism being raised by our State Dep’t team during the statement’s drafting. This way the US can’t be accused of “taking our ball and going home” just because they wouldn’t play our way.

That having been said, it still stinks we showed up at all. It only shows how stupid we were to think there was any chance of changing anyone’s mind there.

171 DisturbedEma  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:41:57am

re: #162 venezuela lover

I do not want to call this a miracle. I want to think that it was Obama’s plan all along to make an appearance then pull out.
In any event, the right decision was made.

I am positive that LGF and other blogs and internet sites played a major role in the decision to pull out.

Thanks to all who read or wrote on the topic.

Yep, this was a “pay no attention to my staff, Jews…I pulled us out of Durban…” moment

Sorry, this Jew still despises your position on just about everything. .wait…no everything

172 Eowyn2  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:42:40am

re: #122 Opinionated

When they unite, they can compare notes. Is US traing better then Iranian training or visa versa.

Which helps get more Israelis murdered?

Iranian training is much better. they have flaming hoops.

173 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:43:17am

re: #157 Nevergiveup

Not true, Never.

A lot of the newest settlers are indeed from Brooklyn.

And the natural expansion argument isn’t totally, correct, either, as has been reported in the Israeli press.

And no, not by B’Tselem.

Defend the settlements if you want. Make your argument for Israel when it has no choice but to annex millions of Palestinians because some settlers feel they must live on some land.

A friend of mine, a hawk who used to post here and has met Charles, visited a settlement last year, and was completely dumbfounded at the collective delusion she saw as to this reality. She was pro-settlement until she took that trip.

No more.

174 DisturbedEma  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:43:33am

re: #168 Opinionated

The cream of the crop of the IDF is today more and more from exactly this segment of Israeli society that you detest.

And your crap that most are “Brooklynites” or other then native Sabras is out and out Arab propaganda and a lie.

I agree- someone is drinking the traf kool aid…what a joke, the “settlers” are constantly armed, they HAVE to be you putz! Oh, and BTW- Settlers are PEOPLE too…attacks on them kill PEOPLE…not terms and abstractions

175 Eowyn2  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:43:48am

re: #150 MrSilverDragon

A pach. E-gads!


sioux-able puns are really bad

176 yesandno  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:44:50am

Sounds great!

/now where is the bait and switch?

177 DisturbedEma  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:45:02am

re: #173 davesax

Not true, Never.

A lot of the newest settlers are indeed from Brooklyn.

And the natural expansion argument isn’t totally, correct, either, as has been reported in the Israeli press.

And no, not by B’Tselem.

Defend the settlements if you want. Make your argument for Israel when it has no choice but to annex millions of Palestinians because some settlers feel they must live on some land.

A friend of mine, a hawk who used to post here and has met Charles, visited a settlement last year, and was completely dumbfounded at the collective delusion she saw as to this reality. She was pro-settlement until she took that trip.

No more.

Umm, yeah, and the Yeti exists too…until you provide a link or 2 or some factual basis for this…even if your “friend” exists and said what you quote…it is ONE PERSON- and in the realm of research- that is not gonna cut it…

178 MrSilverDragon  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:45:33am

re: #175 Eowyn2

sioux-able puns are really bad

Yupik, you choose, some are bound to lose.

179 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:45:36am

re: #139 davesax

I don’t think there should be an expansion of West Bank settlements.

I would serve in the IDF to defend Israel. But to put my life on the line for settlements - many of which are populated by Brooklynites who won’t raise a rifle in the IDF - that ultimately threaten Israeli democracy?

No thanks.


Brooklyn is a settlement.

The whole country of the US is a settlement.

How shall we stop Israeli “settlements” from “expanding?”

Because I’m sure by “expanding” YOU mean building empty buildings for no apparent reason aside from, Geez, should I say grabbing land?

I guess those Israeli citizens should forced to stop having children. And if they do, those children should be forced to leave once of marrying age, because G-d forbid they should want to live where they were born. Tear down the schools built to educate the growing population.

There are more illegal Pali settlements in territories that haven’t yet been given to them.

And I seriously doubt you would serve in the IDF unless you tell me you served in the US military.

All of Israel should fold up because the majority of Jews there are from Arab countries.

Once a Jew makes Aliya to Israel, it makes no difference if from Westchester, Brooklyn, Bagdad or Mars.

Want don’t you do a historical time-line comparing European settlement in American, South America, Australia and New Zealand and explain to me how European/non-European immigration to an ALREADY EXISTING JEWISH POPULATION in Palestine/Israel before and at the same time as the above is a “settlement” movement that can in some way be justifyably reversed while you sit anywhere outside of Europe?

Let’s pack up half the Brazilian population - that 50% - that is European, and something tells me that there is no historical, biblical, cultural, or any other ‘al’ connection to any land that European have SETTLED outside of Europe.

Same goes for ALL OF THE AMERICAS.

Give me an effen break about settlers “from Brooklyn.”

180 looking closely  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:45:54am
The aides, including an advisor to U.N. Ambassador Susan Rice, Jennifer Simon, and longtime Obama advisor Samantha Power, said the administration


Looks like Power crawled out from under the “bus”.

Big shock there…

181 DisturbedEma  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:46:41am

re: #179 Ben Hur

Up ding cha ching!

182 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:46:43am

re: #168 Opinionated

Opinionated:

What are you talking about? You certainly have strong opinions, but you’re not very knowledgeable.

The top of the IDF is not settlers. Russians, maybe, but not settlers.

And indeed, large contingents of the settlement block are from Brooklyn Chabad.

I know them. I’ve met them. They’re very kind to me. But do I agree with these 20 somethings who relocate to settlements at the encouragement of leaders from Manhattan or Crown Heights?

No.

183 nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:46:56am

re: #173 davesax

Your wrong. It’s that simple. And I am sure all the other Lizards like me who have been in Israel alot will attest to that.

184 DisturbedEma  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:47:17am

re: #180 looking closely

Looks like Power crawled out from under the “bus”.

Big shock there…


Oh, she has been back awhile now…it was linked here…somewhere…

185 Amer-I-Can  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:47:17am

It’s about time… I guess HRC decided that she couldn’t slap Israel twice, once at Durban and directly about Gaza reparations as well. The Zionists DO run the world… after all…

//

186 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:47:51am

re: #173 davesax


Make your argument for Israel when it has no choice but to annex millions of Palestinians because some settlers feel they must live on some land.

Are you effen kidding me?

187 nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:47:57am

re: #182 davesax

Opinionated:

What are you talking about? You certainly have strong opinions, but you’re not very knowledgeable.

The top of the IDF is not settlers. Russians, maybe, but not settlers.

And indeed, large contingents of the settlement block are from Brooklyn Chabad.

I know them. I’ve met them. They’re very kind to me. But do I agree with these 20 somethings who relocate to settlements at the encouragement of leaders from Manhattan or Crown Heights?

No.

So now you think the bulk of the IDF are Russian?

188 DisturbedEma  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:48:26am

re: #182 davesax


Hmmm-again…no SUPPORT for your statements…oh, well, maybe someday…

189 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:48:28am

Nevergiveup.

Why do people in these comments always say, “It’s that simple.”

No, it’s not that simple.

Go live on a settlement, if you feel so strongly about them.

190 looking closely  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:48:55am

re: #169 Kenneth
Hey, maybe that was it? Sec Def Gates bumped into Susan Rice in the West Wing hall, their files fell on the floor and they got them all mixed up. Rice then goes into meet with Obama, he looks at the notes,

That’s the only sensible explanation.

You got peanut butter in my chocolate!
You got chocolate in my peanut butter!

Seriously, I’m starting to think the entire Obama administration is in “wing it” mode. Its amateur hour in the White House, with the only guiding proviso being “Whatever Bush did, try to do the opposite”.

191 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:49:14am

re: #182 davesax

Opinionated:

What are you talking about? You certainly have strong opinions, but you’re not very knowledgeable.

The top of the IDF is not settlers. Russians, maybe, but not settlers.

And indeed, large contingents of the settlement block are from Brooklyn Chabad.

I know them. I’ve met them. They’re very kind to me. But do I agree with these 20 somethings who relocate to settlements at the encouragement of leaders from Manhattan or Crown Heights?

No.

Have you actually ever been to Israel?

I mean, for more than two weeks?

192 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:49:42am

re: #179 Ben Hur

Other occupied settlements: Turkey, all of Arab North Africa, Syria, Iraq…

193 Opinionated  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:50:07am

re: #182 davesax

Opinionated:

What are you talking about? You certainly have strong opinions, but you’re not very knowledgeable.

The top of the IDF is not settlers. Russians, maybe, but not settlers.

And indeed, large contingents of the settlement block are from Brooklyn Chabad.

I know them. I’ve met them. They’re very kind to me. But do I agree with these 20 somethings who relocate to settlements at the encouragement of leaders from Manhattan or Crown Heights?

No.

If you believe what you write, you may be the most ignorant person on this board.

Otherwise, I would suggest Charles keep an eye on you.

194 nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:50:25am

re: #189 davesax

Nevergiveup.

Why do people in these comments always say, “It’s that simple.”

No, it’s not that simple.

Go live on a settlement, if you feel so strongly about them.

I never said I did. You better learn to read better. Or should I write it in Hebrew? I just don’t think what you wrote about the cities and towns in Judea and Samaria is accurate.

195 nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:50:56am

re: #191 Ben Hur

Have you actually ever been to Israel?

I mean, for more than two weeks?

I wouldn’t bet on it

196 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:51:39am

Disturbed:

What are you talking about “support”?

It’s a fact. It’s known in the Jewish community.

Chabad, AISH hatorah…they support settlement expansion.

NYC Jewish blueprint has links to some organizations that hold “mixers”, where the money goes to support settlement expansion.

What’s wrong with opposing the settlements? I don’t understand.

197 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:51:42am

And please, pretty please, tell the ISraelis here that they are not knowledgable about Israel.

198 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:52:04am

re: #179 Ben Hur

Let’s pack up half the Brazilian population


KEEP YOUR FILTHY PAWS OFF ADRIANA YOU DAMN, DIRTY APE!

199 Opinionated  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:53:05am

re: #191 Ben Hur

Have you actually ever been to Israel Saudi Arabia?

200 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:53:11am

Yeah, actually, I have.

And I’m going back in April…if I can get the money together.

I doubt that when I go back, just because I love Israel, I’ll support settlement expansion in the West bank.

Sorry.

201 Nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:53:41am

re: #168 Opinionated

The cream of the crop of the IDF is today more and more from exactly this segment of Israeli society that you detest.

And your crap that most are “Brooklynites” or other then native Sabras is out and out Arab propaganda and a lie.

Thank you

202 miggle's ghost  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:53:55am

So the Great One gives with one hand and takes with the other. And Sec of State Clinton contracts Foggy Bottom syndrome about Israel:


Jewish Leaders Blast Clinton Over Israel Criticism
Marcia Kramer
NEW YORK (CBS) ―
[Edited for size by Miggle’s Ghost}
[Click to zoom.] Click to enlarge
Secretary Clinton speaks to members and guests of the Asia Society Feb. 13, 2009, in New York City. Secretary Clinton’s speech was made ahead of her first official trip to the East Asian countries.

In a swift about face from her views as New York’s senator, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is now hammering Israel over its treatment of Palestinians in Gaza.
As First Lady, Clinton raised eyebrows when she kissed Suha Arafat.
Since she was then seeking a Senate seat the resulting brouhaha caused her to “re-think” her positions.
“I’m a very strong supporter of Israel,” Clinton said back in February 2000.
On Thursday, as Secretary of State she had yet another about face in the form of angry messages demanding Israel speed up aid to Gaza. Jewish leaders are furious.
“I am very surprised, frankly, at this statement from the United States government and from the secretary of state,” said Mortimer Zuckerman, publisher of the New York Daily News and member of the NYC Jewish Community Relations Council.
“I liked her a lot more as a senator from New York,” Assemblyman Dov Hikind, D-Brooklyn, said. “Now, I wonder as I used to wonder who the real Hillary Clinton is.”
Clinton’s decision to hammer Israel comes as the Clintons and President Barack Obama are planning to give the Palestinians $900 million toward the rebuilding of Gaza in the wake of the Israeli offensive that was sparked by Hamas rocket fire.
“We are working across the government to see what our approach will be,” Clinton said.


“I don’t believe that we should be in a position at this point to do anything to strengthen Hamas,” Zuckerman said. “We surely know what Hamas stands for as I say they are the forward battalions of Iran.”

For some, Clinton’s change of position is upsetting.

“I feel it’s unfortunate that they don’t continue the policy of the Bush administration, which was much more pro-Israel,” said Akiva Homnick of Jerusalem.

“I happen to have a lot of family who live in Israel and I feel, personally, when you are dealing with people who are very strong against you, you have to stand up to them,” said Tami Davudoff of Kew Gardens.

“Hillary had Mrs. Arafat here and she invited Mrs. Arafat for lunch when she was the first lady,” added Babak Chafe of Great Neck. “She is pro-Palestinian 100 percent, really. Of course, we always knew it.”

“The easy way to make a peace agreement is to pressure Israel because you can’t pressure the Arabs,” said Solomon Loewi of Monsey, N.Y.

All this could lead to a chilly reception when Mrs. Clinton arrives in the Middle East next week.

The new U.S. envoy to the Middle East, George Mitchell, arrived in Israel on Thursday with a mission to inject new life into peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.

Hear Our Voices: CBS 2 Bloggers

203 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:54:11am

re: #200 davesax


You can support or not support, but at least get your facts in order.

204 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:54:56am

OK…LOL…I’m a liar and Charles should keep an eye on me because I don’t support settlement expansion in the west Bank.

Neither do most Israelis, but, hey…what do they know.

205 nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:55:14am

re: #203 Ben Hur

You can support or not support, but at least get your facts in order.

Ben, we really should organize a trip to Israel one day of Lizards.

206 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:55:14am
207 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:55:23am

re: #173 davesax

The Arabs conquered Jerusalem in the year 638 AD. The Ottoman Turks conquered Jerusalem in the year 1517. Why did it take until the 1950’s for the first so-called “Palestinian” to demand an independent country on that land?

208 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:55:26am

Would you support giving the Arab Israeli “Triangle” to Palestine in exchange for the “settlements?”

209 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:56:56am

re: #204 davesax

OK…LOL…I’m a liar and Charles should keep an eye on me because I don’t support settlement expansion in the west Bank.

Neither do most Israelis, but, hey…what do they know.

Everytime you say “settlement ‘EXPANSION’” you know what.

FOrget it.

210 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:57:12am

Obama can pull my finger.

211 nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:57:29am

re: #204 davesax

OK…LOL…I’m a liar and Charles should keep an eye on me because I don’t support settlement expansion in the west Bank.

Neither do most Israelis, but, hey…what do they know.

I don’t remember any one else but you expressing an opinion one way or the other on the conceptual nature of cities and towns in Judea or Samaria but you. We all just don’t think your basing what ever you are saying on facts. So rant and rave all you want about “settlements”?

212 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:57:44am

Hopa!

Our house settler from Canada.

213 Opinionated  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:57:54am

re: #203 Ben Hur

You can support or not support, but at least get your facts in order.

Shouldn’t one have real facts before they decide whether to support or not support something?

The “facts” espoused by our “friend” are such “facts” as come from less then Kosher sources.

Makes me suspicious as to motivation.

214 DisturbedEma  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:58:29am

re: #186 Ben Hur

Are you effen kidding me?

Sadly- NO, he is not…he is a kool aid drinker…of the very terrible sort…many of my “friends” are of the same ilk, deluded into thinking that some people bleed differently than others, and some have the right to act, while others must absorb and submit…it’s the LAND you see…once you give up the LAND…then the unicorns will frolic in Gaza…oh wait…

The only “appropriate” stand for Israel for people like this is to on their heels…waiting to be shoved closer and closer to the “sea”

215 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:58:41am

re: #205 nevergiveup

I tried to do that. I got the BEST price, but I didn’t get enough people. Ten days, all transfers, 3 star hotels and all tours for just under $2000 CDN in off season. Round trip airfare from Toronto (direct) and very inexpensive add-ons from other North American locations to TO or NY.

216 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:58:50am

Kenneth,

I know this history.

Historically, I understand the attachment to those holy places on the West Bank.

But I must say, it’s more important to me that the Jewish state stay a Jewish state, and that can only be done with giving up some of the settlements, or going Lieberman’s way, which I don’t think is very realistic right now.

Oh well, nice talking with you guys. Have a good weekend.

217 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:58:56am

re: #212 Ben Hur

{BENHUR}

218 DisturbedEma  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 11:59:31am

re: #189 davesax

Nevergiveup.

Why do people in these comments always say, “It’s that simple.”

No, it’s not that simple.

Go live on a settlement, if you feel so strongly about them.

I plan on doing just that eventually, so have a nice big cup of SHUT THE FUCK UP why don’t ya?

219 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:00:30pm

re: #216 davesax

davesax-Israel is doing very well demographically. The myth that it will be overwhelmed demographically is TOTAL BULLSHIT. Look up Yoram Ettinger and you will feel much better. The Arab/Muslim birthrate is going down consistently and the Jewish one going up.

220 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:00:33pm

re: #216 davesax

“Land for peace” is nothing more than a ploy by the Arab terrorists to get a closer firing position on Israel. It will not bring peace.

221 DaddyG  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:00:42pm

Ken K - still waiting to see if you care to post why you dinged my letter to my representatives. Why ding someone (up or down) without engaging in the thread? I thought this was a forum to exchange ideas.

222 looking closely  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:01:16pm

re: #206 Iron Fist

Even now, it is looking like we may not get a re-enactment of the Assaullt Weapons Ban, but it is Democrats who are killing it. Has even one member of the GPO [{sic} publicly taken a stand against it? Any Senators promising a filibuster?


Agreeing in general with just about everything else you’ve said in that post, I think the time for that sort of thing is if/when a bill gets out of committee. Has that happened?

Also, it would be foolish to threaten a filibuster without having the goods to back up the threat, and it isn’t entirely clear that the Republicans have them right now.

223 DisturbedEma  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:01:36pm

re: #216 davesax

Kenneth,

I know this history.

Historically, I understand the attachment to those holy places on the West Bank.

But I must say, it’s more important to me that the Jewish state stay a Jewish state, and that can only be done with giving up some of the settlements, or going Lieberman’s way, which I don’t think is very realistic right now.

Oh well, nice talking with you guys. Have a good weekend.

Yeah…we will do that, and don’t let the door hit ya…


Sheesh- what the fuck happened when the Jews left Gaza, you moron!? How did the “Jewish State” (I call her ISRAEL, btw) fare on that deal?

224 nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:02:04pm

re: #215 WriterMom

I tried to do that. I got the BEST price, but I didn’t get enough people. Ten days, all transfers, 3 star hotels and all tours for just under $2000 CDN in off season. Round trip airfare from Toronto (direct) and very inexpensive add-ons from other North American locations to TO or NY.


I know. I used to run tours with the UJA. Without subsidies, it can still be expensive. But there are still ways to lower the cost, but I know it is difficult.

225 DisturbedEma  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:02:42pm

re: #220 Kenneth

“Land for peace” is nothing more than a ploy by the Arab terrorists to get a closer firing position on Israel. It will not bring peace.


Just pieces…

226 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:02:48pm

re: #214 DisturbedEma

People outside of Israel have a tough time defining the intra-communal debates that go on in Israel.

In the Diaspora - the original one - it’s as simple as Who is a Jew?

Within Israel, since most are Jews, that arguement becomes, What Kind of Jew Am I, What Kind of Jew Are You.”

If there an attack on a “settlement” only the far left uses the “they had it coming” arguement.

FUnny. There was just an election. Where is the far (non-Arab) left?

The dismantling of the settlements in Gaza was, no matter if you were for or against, a heart tearing experience for the whole country.

SOmething a foreigner living in the United European Settlements of OCcupied America would have difficulty understanding.

227 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:03:31pm

re: #224 nevergiveup

I still have excellent connections for travel from Toronto or NY as a group. It could still be done for about CDN $1600-1800 all inclusive in off season. If we got a group (15-20) I would do it.

228 nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:04:32pm

re: #216 davesax

Kenneth,

I know this history.

Historically, I understand the attachment to those holy places on the West Bank.

But I must say, it’s more important to me that the Jewish state stay a Jewish state, and that can only be done with giving up some of the settlements, or going Lieberman’s way, which I don’t think is very realistic right now.

Oh well, nice talking with you guys. Have a good weekend.

Well in Judea and Samaria it’s not so much holy places but SECURITY! Ever hear about that? Ya know high points, cross roads, water? Ya you have been in Israel alot?

229 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:05:05pm

re: #226 Ben Hur

BenHur, you’re getting perfectly philosophical for Friday…Make sure you read the parsha: Trumah-very good stuff in there. THINK JOOO THINK HOLY.

230 vagabond trader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:05:15pm

re: #227 WriterMom

We would be interested as long as flying out of Boston is an option.

231 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:05:26pm

re: #223 DisturbedEma

Disturbed:

Wow, you’re pretty upset.

I’ve been posting here for seven years.

It’s always funny to be labled as a “lefty” or whatever.

Anyway, I support what the writer Yossi Klein Halevi does, which is gradual withdrawal with some settlements being replaced by military outposts.

But, I doubt you know who Yossi Halevi is anyway. You’ll probably call him a Saudi loving leftist.

Boo hoo for me.

232 BingoBunny  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:05:55pm

Obama pulled out of this conference not because he doesn’t agree with it.. he went there knowing what would happen.. but because coming made the point he wanted to be made.. now he can safely leave, before it spreads around that the conference does what he wants.

/”some of my best donors are joos..” Obama

233 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:06:09pm

re: #198 Occasional Reader

Racist!

/it had to be said.

234 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:06:48pm

re: #230 vagabond trader

It would probably be about $200 CDN for a flight from Boston to TO as an add-on.

235 Occasional Reader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:06:51pm

re: #226 Ben Hur

What Kind of Jew Am I

“Who never fell in love…”

236 godfrey  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:06:56pm

This administration will go back to Durban. They handed over their position with obsequious apologies. They pwobabwy cwied on the way out the door, begging for forgiveness.

Wouldn’t surprise me if this is a response to the recent heat over Hillary and Israel.

237 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:07:27pm

re: #231 davesax

Yossi Klein Halevi is ok…better than most of the schlock that came out of the Jerusalem Report.

238 WriterMom  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:08:12pm

GOTTA RUN SHABBAT SHALOM

If anyone seriously wants to start talking about an Israel tour again, post something with my name in it or e-mail me. Off season trip-that is.

239 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:09:58pm

Halevi is very good. At least his stuff for TNR is.

TNR is a great magazine. Marty and Leon W. love Israel.

Leon W doesn’t support the settlements, and he probably knows more about Judaism and Israel than any of us, here.

Jeffrey Goldberg left college, moved to Israel, served in the army, supported the Iraq war…loves Israel…and DOES NOT support the settlements.

If there is no room for those people in one’s worldview, then we are indeed screwed.

240 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:10:10pm

Well, at least it was softened up from, - I wouldn’t lay down my life for a bunch of guys from Brooklyn - to a more calming atmosphere.

241 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:10:44pm

Obama is difficult to figure out personally. I was deeply afraid that we would go to Durban II and make it into an appeasement fest that would throw Israel under the bus.

I am obviously happy that is not now going to happen.

Perhaps, and we can hope more rethinking of his stances happens, and I am not holding my breath, but perhaps in the course of dealing with the real shenanigans that go on in the UN, rather than chattering class discussions of them, Obama will start rethinking some things.

I am not trying to write a giant defense of Obama here. I am however hopeful that he can see reason in the face of evidence - and the fact that he did pull out of this seems to indicate some part of that process happening. I think he truly believes that people around the world are much more reasonable than they actually are. I think he is being disabused of that to a greater or lesser extent.

So I am going to be guardedly hopeful.

In the mean time, Hillary has proven her deep lack of worth yet again. I doubt sincerely that she stands for anything at all. She strikes me as the greatest cypher in politics today.

242 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:11:32pm

Ben Hur left high school, moved to Israel, served in the army, went to university, supported the Iraq war…loves Israel…and DOES support the settlements, but didn’t write a book.

243 DisturbedEma  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:11:56pm

re: #231 davesax

Disturbed:

Wow, you’re pretty upset.

I’ve been posting here for seven years.

It’s always funny to be labled as a “lefty” or whatever.

Anyway, I support what the writer Yossi Klein Halevi does, which is gradual withdrawal with some settlements being replaced by military outposts.

But, I doubt you know who Yossi Halevi is anyway. You’ll probably call him a Saudi loving leftist.

Boo hoo for me.

Umm, see the nic- I am Disturbed…not angry.

Um, and yeah, we are in total disagreement over this issue, but your “why not go live on one” grade school comment about this very complex issue DID put things in to perspective…and please not YOU are the one who used the term “leftie”

I was A DEMOCRAT until this election you pompous ass! I have an effin degree in liberalism, dipshit.

244 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:11:58pm

re: #231 davesax

Yossi Klein Halevi

In 2001 he published “At the Entrance to the Garden of Eden: A Jew’s Search for God with Christians and Muslims in the Holy Land”. The book tells of his spiritual journey as a religious Jew into the worlds of Christianity and Islam in Israel and the Palestinian territories. Halevi joined the prayers and meditations in mosques and monasteries, in an attempt to experience the devotional lives of his non-Jewish neighbors and to create a religious language of reconciliation among the three monotheistic faiths.

Halevi has been active in Middle East reconciliation efforts, and serves as chairman of Open House, an Arab-Jewish educational project in the working class town of Ramle. He was a founder and board member of the now-defunct Israeli-Palestinian Media Forum, which brought together Israeli and Palestinian Journalists.

How’s that spiritual reconciliation thing working out for him? Any invites to Mecca lately?

245 DisturbedEma  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:12:26pm

re: #238 WriterMom

GOTTA RUN SHABBAT SHALOM

If anyone seriously wants to start talking about an Israel tour again, post something with my name in it or e-mail me. Off season trip-that is.

Shabbat Shalom-Gut Shabbos

246 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:12:28pm

re: #238 WriterMom

GOTTA RUN SHABBAT SHALOM

If anyone seriously wants to start talking about an Israel tour again, post something with my name in it or e-mail me. Off season trip-that is.


Good Shabbos!

247 Opinionated  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:13:28pm

re: #231 davesax

Disturbed:

Anyway, I support what the writer Yossi Klein Halevi does, which is gradual withdrawal with some settlements being replaced by military outposts.

You want to link for me Klein’s specific proposals.

I call him Klein because I knew him well before he added Halevi to his name.

248 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:13:38pm

re: #239 davesax

Halevi is very good. At least his stuff for TNR is.

TNR is a great magazine. Marty and Leon W. love Israel.

Leon W doesn’t support the settlements, and he probably knows more about Judaism and Israel than any of us, here.

Jeffrey Goldberg left college, moved to Israel, served in the army, supported the Iraq war…loves Israel…and DOES NOT support the settlements.

If there is no room for those people in one’s worldview, then we are indeed screwed.


There’s room, but I’m sure they make their arguements with a lot more authenticity than you do.

249 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:13:59pm

Ben,

That’s fine. I welcome your input.

But don’t imply I’m some sort of traitor because I don’t think the settlements overall are good for Israel.

And yes, I have spoken to people in brooklyn Chabad who support the settlements and have relatives who get up and move to the settlements.

And I find it disturbing, being that these are people who won’t serve in the army because of religious reasons, yet they will stay firmly in the settlements and expect people like you to die for them.

And that’s my opinion.

sorry if you don’t like it.

250 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:14:12pm

BBL

251 nevergiveup  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:14:13pm

re: #242 Ben Hur

Ben Hur left high school, moved to Israel, served in the army, went to university, supported the Iraq war…loves Israel…and DOES support the settlements, but didn’t write a book.

Nevergiveup has been to Israel 25-30 times, isn’t sure what some people mean by “settlements”, and has not expressed an opinion about cities and towns in Judea and Samaria.

252 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:14:47pm

re: #239 davesax

When I hear the phrase “occupied west bank” I think of the Arabs and wonder when they will leave. The Arabs are settlers there as much as any Jew is. The Arabs have plenty of other Arab countries to move to. The Jews have only Israel.

253 see bs  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:15:23pm

Broken Clock Theory Strikes Again!

254 DisturbedEma  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:15:31pm

re: #240 Ben Hur

Well, at least it was softened up from, - I wouldn’t lay down my life for a bunch of guys from Brooklyn - to a more calming atmosphere.

Hey, sorry about that- I am just so sick of this double standard- I admit, I go from calm to F5 in seconds with comments like “those JEWS ARE NOT WORTH FIGHTING WITH/FOR”


Can I still blame pregnancy, or is the shelf life on the hormone defense beyong the 6 weeks…what about the fact I had twins…can I get a pass…maybe…

flutters eye lashes…

255 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:16:02pm

OK, so my personal experience in the community carries no weight, but yours does?

Gotcha.

Kenneth…that you’ve cherry picked something of Halevis you don’t agree with shows all the more you don’t know about him.

Disturbed:

Dipshit.

Owwch. That hurts.

256 DisturbedEma  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:16:59pm

re: #249 davesax


1. I thought you were leaving
2. Someone who has been posting here for as long as you claim should know that your opinions must be supported by facts/links/citations, otherwise it is heresay and not valid for the purpose of debate…

257 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:17:03pm

I gotta run too! I wish all fellow tribe members a really good Shabbos, and everyone else a really great Friday/Sat untill I see you again.

258 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:17:04pm

re: #249 davesax

Ben,

That’s fine. I welcome your input.

But don’t imply I’m some sort of traitor because I don’t think the settlements overall are good for Israel.

And yes, I have spoken to people in brooklyn Chabad who support the settlements and have relatives who get up and move to the settlements.

And I find it disturbing, being that these are people who won’t serve in the army because of religious reasons, yet they will stay firmly in the settlements and expect people like you to die for them.

And that’s my opinion.

sorry if you don’t like it.

I don’t recall calling you a traitor - and I wouldn’t.

The Chabad is not some giant organization.

There are secular people who support the same positions.

Need to go.

Continue next time.

BBIBLB

259 vagabond trader  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:17:10pm

re: #234 WriterMom

Sounds decent to me! Hubby and I have never been and would love to before we shuffle off this mortal coil.

260 DisturbedEma  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:17:47pm

re: #255 davesax


Um, it is a word…buck up on it, be a mensch…what are ya, from Brooooooooooklyn?
//

261 DisturbedEma  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:19:08pm

re: #258 Ben Hur

Gottenyu! He is the ANTI COG!
Sorry, I know, you all hate when I do that, but negativity breeds it…I will log off for Shabbat

262 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:19:21pm

re: #249 davesax

Arrtrgg! I have to go BUT:

And I find it disturbing, being that these are people who won’t serve in the army because of religious reasons, yet they will stay firmly in the settlements and expect people like you to die for them.

These are not the religious people you are looking for.

You are confusing the Haredim with Religious Zionists.

And I agree with you - the Haredim should be forced to do some sort of national service - aside for Torah (which the Hur thinks is important as national service to them at least -I am secular) or they shouldn’t get welfare.

263 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:20:18pm

BBL

My Shabbat Monkey will be on later.

264 Kenneth  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:21:15pm

re: #255 davesax

If you spent more time actually articulating your positions and supporting them with arguments you might get some respect around here. All you’ve posted so far is,


“settlements are bad, I’ve been to Israel, I know somebody who was at a settlement and didn’t like what she saw, I like this writer. The rest of you don’t know what you’re talking about”

To summarize, who gives a shit what you think?

265 Opinionated  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:24:05pm

re: #231 davesax

By the way, have you read where Klein writes that he lives in the French Hill section of Jerusalem?

Do you know that the Arabs consider French Hill a settlement?

266 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:27:19pm
267 Creeping Eruption  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:29:20pm

re: #265 Opinionated

By the way, have you read where Klein writes that he lives in the French Hill section of Jerusalem?

Do you know that the Arabs consider French Hill a settlement?

Hell - The Arabs consider any place a Jew happens to be sitting as a “settlement.”

268 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:31:37pm

re: #264 Kenneth

To summarize, who gives a shit what you think?

Obviously, you do.

Is cursing at someone your idea of articulating an argument?

269 [deleted]  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:32:38pm
270 looking closely  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:32:54pm

re: #241 LudwigVanQuixote

I think its pretty clear that Obama is learning on the job.

All Presidents need to do that to some extent, though clearly some more than others.

In this particular case, it really seems that Obama’s preconceptions are running into the brick wall of economic, political, and international reality.

I’ll take it, though I just wish the learning curve weren’t so steep in his case.

271 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:39:41pm

re: #268 davesax


I’m back.

We don’t agree, but I shouldn’t have flipped out.

Some of your initial rhetoric obviously hit some buttons with me.

You are obviously not a troll, etc.

I’ll try to remember to throttle back - that the Ferrari still does 75 in third gear - so to speak.

Just that some of your initial rhetoric reminded my of the usual subjects that I gather you are not one of. (If that made sense).

272 davesax  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:41:19pm

Ben Hur:

No problem. Sorry I offended.

Shabbat Shalom, brother.

273 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:41:45pm

re: #272 davesax

Ben Hur:

No problem. Sorry I offended.

Shabbat Shalom, brother.

To you too.

274 Ben Hur  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:47:00pm

Last!

(suckers!)

275 looking closely  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:50:11pm

re: #266 Iron Fist

Again, agreeing with EVERYTHING you’ve said in that last post, in my opinion, there is a gap here between the political reality and the leftist Democrats wish list (in this case that includes Obama and Biden).

Its not ‘95 anymore. Now we’re living in a post- 9-11 world, and that plus Hurricane Katrina, I think, have convinced a LOT of Americans that having guns around isn’t such a bad thing.

Further the explosion of State CCW laws mean that not only do more Americans today own guns than ever before, but more of them are actually CARRYING guns.

Lastly the Heller decision was also a pro-gun plus.

The point is politically speaking, I think its going to be harder to ban guns this time around, the Democrat majority notwithstanding.

276 Cato  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:51:29pm

Flying Pig Worthy?

Speaking of Flying Pigs:

[Link: consumerist.com…]

277 looking closely  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 12:56:49pm

re: #266 Iron Fist

Next thing, any coming ban is already moot, as mere FEAR of such a ban has ALREADY put more military style semiautomatic rifles on the streets than ever before.

As a personal example, I consider myself somewhat of a gun buff, but I have NEVER owned a semi-automatic military style rifle before, mainly because I didn’t “need” one, and would rather spend my firearms dollar on more pragmatic things like ammo, range time, etc. But under the circumstances I just bought one anyway, figuring I might as well do so while I can (plus 1000 rounds of ammo, of course).

Its not just me. Semi-auto rifles have literally flown off the shelves since Obama was elected. Every manufacturer of AR-15 type uppers, for example, is backordered for 9 months, and lots of dealers have sold off their entire inventories. Every dealer than can is importing as many high-cap mags as they possibly can, with production being ramped up to maximum capacity. Romanian AK production is maxed out, and these guns are currently being imported by the truckload. Even SKS rifles that cost $200 12 months ago are sold out everywhere and cost $300, if you can even find one for sale.

If the goal is to get those “bad rifles” off the streets (which of course we both know is NOT the goal, and is pure BS), then Obama has done a very good job of doing the EXACT opposite!

278 Colonel Panik  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 1:27:20pm

Beslan, and now Mumbai, possibly have made a lot of people who previously would have said “I don’t need a military style semi-auto rifle” think twice about it. The sunset of the 1994 ban, the gear up of production of M16/M4 parts and accessories for the Afghan and Iraq conflicts, have really “mainstreamed” the “black rifle” in American gun culture. A few years ago you would have had “Fudds” declaiming “it’s you boys with those nasty assault rifles that make the liberals want to ban my deer gun”. Now, everyone wants to shoot the rifle our troops are using in the “sandbox”. Guys returning from the “sandbox” and mustering out want to keep a semi-auto version of the rifle they carried overseas. I know a construction contractor here in Phoenix who bought a semi-auto Bushmaster M4 for his son who was joining the Army to practice with BEFORE he went to boot camp, because he was concerned that his son would not be spending enough time on the rifle range at boot!

279 ugh!  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 1:34:56pm

Flying pig moment.

280 danyodan  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 1:45:05pm

So… Prez Hopenchange’s UN Posse screwed the pooch so badly on this one that it cannot be fixed. The anti-Israeli, Anti-Jew hate mongering language is in and cannot be changed at this point because according to UN rules, if it was not challenged going in, it cannot be challenged later. So, the only thing left to do is…wait for it…RUN AWAY!

The Monty Python method of Foreign Policy.

Or, as we call it here in the Real World. Incompetence and Moral Cowardice.

Wait, I am having a warm tingly on my leg.

I promise to not hold my breath waiting for Chris Matthews to jump on this blatant foreign policy failure, happening as it is, within the first 100 days of the Obama Administration.

281 looking closely  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 1:49:27pm

re: #278 Colonel Panik
Yeah, in really just the last few years AR-15 type rifles have become amongst the MOST popular rifle types, and now there are a gazillion manufacturers to meet the demand. The modularity of them is pretty helpful. That is NOT what I bought, but I think I may be getting one of those soon too.

Same thing happened a few years previously with 1911 type pistols. Who ever would have thought those would have a major resurgence? (And who ever would have predicted 20 years ago that that Smith and Wesson would be selling truckloads of 1911s and AR-15s, while Colt would NOT be?).

That one can even be partially blamed on the Clinton gun ban, since I think a lot of people were thinking, well, if I can ONLY have ten rounds, I mights as well make them .45s.

282 winston06  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 1:55:34pm

Shame on Obamble. He did this under pressure otherwise his shameful team would be there apologizing. Shame on Obamble

283 NY Nana  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 2:03:40pm

re: #282 winston06

Winston,

The One has no shame, not to mention that he also lacks any form of moral scruples. He is ruthless.

284 Colonel Panik  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 2:14:32pm

re: #281 looking closely

Colt got done in by the same thing that did in the auto industry. The UAW. They were the only mfr. in the firearms industry in America that is unionized, and the cost of their labor drove the price of their commercial products to stratospheric heights.

Smith & Wesson got burned by their former management teams acquiescence to Clinton admin demands in exchange for LE contracts. They’ve learned their lesson, and their new mgmt team is very Pro-NRA.

With regards to the AR-15, nothing speaks more to me about the mainstreaming of this rifle than what I saw a week ago at Rio Salado. The person on the firing bench next to me was a very prim and proper woman in her 60’s with a national match heavy barrel AR who was obviously a serious high power rifle match competitor. If I had seen her in the grocery store I would have never imagined it.

285 winston06  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 2:17:57pm

re: #283 NY Nana

I believe you

286 Maui Girl  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 2:28:54pm

Totally a political move.

287 Mosse  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 6:33:43pm

This is HUGE piece of good news. It was an absolute scandal that the U.S. continued to interact with the groups who fostered the ridiculous language in the Durban II document, while Canada, Italy, and the Netherlands refused cooperation LAST MONTH, due to the inclusions. As noted earlier, though, I’m sure they’ll have some other appeasement up their sleeves, but this boycott will at least allow us to concentrate on other things. Like forming NEW PARTIES.

288 Daryl Herbert  Fri, Feb 27, 2009 7:11:02pm

The administration won’t be participating actively, but there may be unofficial participation. Barack Obama will certainly let everyone at the conference know how he feels about it.


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