‘Apocalyptic’ Intelligence on the Situation in Pakistan

Charles Johnsonfollow me on twitter
World • Mon Mar 16, 2009 at 9:16 am PDT • Views: 299

Apparently, Barack Obama didn’t ask them to unclench their fists nicely enough: Obama told: help Pakistan or risk a repeat of 9/11 in America or Britain.

A team headed by Bruce Riedel, a former CIA Middle East expert, asked to overhaul US policy on Afghanistan and Pakistan, has concluded that stabilising Pakistan is now the higher priority, a source familiar with the discussions has revealed.

The report, prepared in conjunction with the National Security Council, will focus on the need to co-opt moderate Taliban elements and shut down militant safe havens in Pakistan’s he lawless northwest border region. It will also urge a sharp increase in military and civil assistance.

But The Sunday Telegraph has learned that the need to prevent a repeat of the September 11 attacks has become the driving force behind the review, which could be published as early as this week.

Mr Riedel, who served on the NSC under three previous presidents, believes that unless serious action is taken, Pakistan will become a “terrorist university”, posing a far greater threat to the security of the US and Europe than Afghanistan before the September 11 atrocities.

Recent “apocalyptic” intelligence on the situation in Pakistan has sent shockwaves through the upper echelons of the Obama administration and convinced Mr Riedel’s review team that radicals trained in Pakistan are the greatest threat to Western security.

One White House aide emerged from an intelligence briefing on Pakistan three days after Mr Obama’s inauguration to exclaim: “Holy s—t!”

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349 comments

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1 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:17:32am
2 Ringo the Gringo  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:18:59am

C'mon folks...This is nothing that an inspiring speech can't fix.

/...hope!

3 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:19:15am

The pakistanis have nukes, who thinks this conflict, in the big picture, will be over before some go off? And then ... ?

4 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:19:32am

Now all the administration needs to do is listen to its experts . . . and act.

5 kynna  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:19:39am

Children. Our country is in the hands of children. Holy shit, indeed.

6 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:19:41am

With Bush, this would've been handled well. With Obama, I only have this to say: Oshit!

7 Diamond Bullet  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:20:06am

While I'm leery of Pakistan's crazed Islamist elements, I'm also not convinced than "apocalyptic" intelligence means the same thing to Obama's staff that it does to us. They might have just gotten word that Obama's not allowed to bring his teleprompter if he has to travel there.

8 Emerald  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:20:22am

I wonder how much has to happen before the Hope and Change kool-aid drinkers realize experience and functioning brain cells are more important than imagery when it comes to running the free world.

9 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:20:57am

re: #4 Creeping Eruption

Now all the administration needs to do is listen to its experts . . . and act.

With Obama the control freak, do you really think he'll actually listen to anybody other than the mirror on the wall?

10 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:21:03am
One White House aide emerged from an intelligence briefing on Pakistan three days after Mr Obama’s inauguration to exclaim: “Holy s—t!”

Yup. In over their ego-inflated heads, Obama and his team no doubt are.

11 Occasional Reader  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:21:05am
One White House aide emerged from an intelligence briefing on Pakistan three days after Mr Obama’s inauguration to exclaim: “Holy s—t!”


Hey, fellas, where have you been for, oh, say, these past 8 years?

12 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:21:44am

re: #8 Emerald

I wonder how much has to happen before the Hope and Change kool-aid drinkers realize experience and functioning brain cells are more important than imagery when it comes to running the free world.

I hope not too much, but I fear that it'll take far more than that.

13 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:22:04am

One White House aide emerged from an intelligence briefing on Pakistan three days after Mr Obama’s inauguration to exclaim: “Holy s—t!”

Nothing makes me feel more secure than seeing White House aides look like deer caught in the headlights.

Grow up.

14 dhg4  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:22:30am

If we don't have enemy combatants, does that mean we don't have enemies either?

15 jjmckay1216  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:22:34am

re: #11 Occasional Reader

Hey, fellas, where have you been for, oh, say, these past 8 years?

BDS is a bad infliction. Only reality to them was I HATE BUSH. BUSH IS BAD. Other than that, their eyes were wide open..

/

16 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:23:19am

re: #11 Occasional Reader

Hey, fellas, where have you been for, oh, say, these past 8 years?

I would go there too, but I can't get my head that far up my ass.

17 kynna  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:23:37am

re: #11 Occasional Reader

Hey, fellas, where have you been for, oh, say, these past 8 years?

See this is what pisses me off the most. We might be further along in this GWoT if they hadn't been aiming their freaking shit cannons at George Bush all these years. Then Obama really would have come into a situation where he could skate a bit (necessary because he's as clueless as a lobster). Duh!

And the media STILL won't report the truth.

18 yesandno  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:23:43am
moderate Taliban

Isn't that like a fish out of water? Flip-flopping until they die...

19 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:24:00am

re: #14 dhg4

If we don't have enemy combatants, does that mean we don't have enemies either?

No, it means that we don't have a President that will combat our enemies.

20 quickjustice  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:24:02am

You mean Bush and Cheney weren't lying? ;-) (This is downright hilarious!)

21 Occasional Reader  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:24:57am
Mr Riedel, who served on the NSC under three previous presidents, believes that unless serious action is taken, Pakistan will become a “terrorist university”,

"Will become"?

Guys... see that barn door, the wide-open one?

22 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:25:16am

re: #20 quickjustice

"Only Republicans lie."

///

23 Kragar  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:25:23am
One White House aide emerged from an intelligence briefing on Pakistan three days after Mr Obama’s inauguration to exclaim: “Holy s—t!”

These people had no fucking clue what they were getting into and innocent people are going to die due to their ineptitude

24 yesandno  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:25:56am

re: #23 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

These people had no fucking clue what they were getting into and innocent people are going to die due to their ineptitude

So sad...but so very true

25 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:26:40am

I hope India is keeping track of Pakistan's nukes, and has plans to deal with them, because the 0 administration doesn't.

26 SasquatchOnSteroids  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:26:53am

Where's Mandy ? It's her line.

27 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:27:00am

They emerged from the briefing and got a Holy Shit?

Are you frakking kidding me? Obama's people had been getting briefings on the situation there from right after election day. If you didn't know that the situation in Pakistan was volatile you'd have to have had your head buried deep in the sand (or the nether-regions). It's been that way for decades, including during the Musharraf years and now the Zardari regime. There's no reason to believe that diplomacy will solve the mess in the Pakistani polity because the Islamists want total control and aren't willing to submit to any kind of moderation or limitations. The Taliban have increasingly grown brazen in their control over the frontier provinces.

The government, such as it is, lurches between appeasement and crackdown - doing just enough to stay in power (a theme running back to the Musharraf days).

And who exactly is a moderate Taliban? They are Islamists to the core, and seek to impose Sharia. It's antithetical to moderation. Mullah Omar? Moderate? HAH! You make me laugh.

The situation there is directly affecting the situation in Afghanistan, so there is good reason to understand the situation in Pakistan and figure out ways of dealing with it. Appeasement is not the solution; it will breed still more contempt for the West and the US in particular among the Islamists who think that their time is coming.

28 realwest  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:27:23am

re: #15 jjmckay1216
No need for the sarc tag at all.
The Leftists (posing as the Democratic Party) have hated President Bush SO MUCH, with SO MUCH INTENSITY, that it truly has blinded them to several otherwise obvious truths.
When during the campaign (I mean for the election, not the ongoing campaign of the Obama administration) Obama proposed invading Pakistan, some of us said "Whoa, hold on there. Someone SHOULD have told you that Pakistan has nuclear weapons you fucking jackass." But he refused to listen and now we are really in a jam.

29 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:27:38am

re: #23 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

These people had no fucking clue what they were getting into and innocent people are going to die due to their ineptitude

Dude, you are totally ruining my high.

/

30 LionOfDixon  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:27:46am

Amateur Hour. Obama is closer ideologically to the Pakistanis than he his to the average American. For all the media-produced accolades about his intelligence and foreign appeal, he is nothing but an arrogant socialist who, judging by the company he keeps, would enjoy seeing the country in a rubble pile.

31 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:27:54am

re: #14 dhg4

If we don't have enemy combatants, does that mean we don't have enemies either?

You'll have to wait for the new Newspeak on that

32 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:28:10am

re: #29 Ford_Prefect

I'm harshing my own mellow. /

33 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:28:14am
34 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:28:26am

When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars

This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius
The Age of Aquarius
Aquarius! Aquarius!

Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revelation
And the mind's true liberation
Aquarius! Aquarius!

When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars

This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius
The Age of Aquarius
Aquarius! Aquarius!

Let the sun shine, Let the sun shine in
The sun shine in
Let the sun shine, Let the sun shine in
The sun shine in
Let the sun shine, Let the sun shine in
The sun shine in
Let the sun shine, Let the sun shine in
The sun shine in

35 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:28:27am

re: #23 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

These people had no fucking clue what they were getting into and innocent people are going to die due to their ineptitude

get the UN involved and watch the body count skyrocket...

36 joncelli  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:28:30am

Joncelli's three-point plan for the Pakistani situation:

1. Seize Pakistan's nukes.
2. Destroy the ISI.
3. Back the Indians in whatever they choose to do after 1 and 2 are implemented.

Win/win. (Well, not for Pakistan.)

37 opnion  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:28:34am

Wonder how many Obmama supporters are now having buyers remorse?
The sea levels are not dropping, the Earth is not healing & the World does not, now love us.
Sloganeering is a poor substitute for competence.

38 pat  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:28:38am

Don't these jackasses read the papers?

39 Kragar  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:28:38am

re: #29 Ford_Prefect

Dude, you are totally ruining my high.

/

Dont worry. After all, Barry summed it all up with "We won."

40 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:28:59am

One White House aide emerged from an intelligence briefing on Pakistan three days after Mr Obama’s inauguration to exclaim: “Holy s—t!”

Now they know how we all felt when he first walked into the Whitehouse.
Not quite sure what President Obama has in his arsenal to give up to Pakistan.

41 realwest  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:29:02am

re: #18 yesandno
NO! A "moderate" Taliban is one who makes his wife walk only 5 paces behind him, instead of the customary 10 and who actually sharpens the blade before any beheadings.

42 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:29:10am

re: #38 pat

Don't these jackasses read the papers?

Why do they need to read what they wrote?

43 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:29:32am

re: #38 pat

Don't these jackasses read the papers?

Just the comics.

44 onslow  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:29:43am

"Never let a good crisis go to waste."

Obama's administration owns that line.

45 Emerald  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:30:05am

re: #12 Honorary Yooper

I hope not too much, but I fear that it'll take far more than that.

True, the left's entire philosophy seems to have been hijacked by the "Blame Bush" mentality. It's easier for them to continue blaming Bush than admit that their infantile world view was completely inaccurate, let alone the reality that slick sound bites aren't going to be effective. They're in over their heads, and they won't admit they can't deal with it.

46 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:30:20am

re: #38 pat

Don't these jackasses read the papers?

They write the papers, or at least control everything the papers print

47 realwest  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:30:47am

re: #27 lawhawk
Great damn post lawhawk!

48 jjmckay1216  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:30:59am

re: #28 realwest

true Real, they should have had some realization of what was happeing there. But I believe Obama is such that if he doesn't think of it himself, it can't be true. This guy won't listen to anyone, but let's other ppl create stimulis packages without him even lifting a finger. I am so afraid for my country right now and it's only be like 50 days in.

49 johnnyreb  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:31:01am

It is just a matter of time. I am betting on Mexico to go down first. However, Pakistan does have nukes, hmmm...

50 Last Mohican  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:31:41am

Obviously I haven't read this report, but it sounds like it's missing the point, yet again.

The Pakistani government seems unable to control its own military or intelligence people. The tribal areas are already a failed state and a safe haven for terrorists. "If that spreads the whole country will become a terrorist university. The chance of a spectacular in the US, or Britain, is exponentially increased.

The whole country is a terrorist university, and has been for quite some time. The Pakistani government, like Pakistan in general, is populated mainly by jihadist extremists. If the government were to gain control of its military or intelligence people, that wouldn't make them any less radical. This is a country where only 6% of people say they disapprove of Bin Laden (according to a Pew poll). Where 90% of wives are beaten and/or raped by their husbands, and this is considered acceptable. Why to we continue to perpetuate this myth that most Pakistanis are civilized people, but that they're having trouble containing the radical elements within the country?

CIA and FBI chiefs are also demanding greater cooperation from Pakistan's ISI intelligence agency in locating militants in the region and potential terrorists who may already have travelled to the US.

The ISI is basically a state-supported faction of Al Qaeda, one that sometimes does and sometimes doesn't agree with what the rest of Al Qaeda is doing. Asking the ISI to help us track down "militants" is like asking Al Qaeda to help us track down "militants."

51 kynna  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:32:08am

Well, I'm going to Target to prepare for the upcoming apocalypse. I wish the bright colors would distract me from the reality of our situation. Then I could be a democrat and be overcome with Hope! ///

52 ErnieG  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:32:33am

re: #27 lawhawk

They emerged from the briefing and got a Holy Shit?

[snip]

And who exactly is a moderate Taliban? They are Islamists to the core, and seek to impose Sharia. It's antithetical to moderation. Mullah Omar? Moderate? HAH! You make me laugh.
.

Moderate Taliban? That's like a vegetarian cannibal.

53 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:32:35am
54 AG in Houston  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:32:42am

When does the Jewish conpiracy start to come into play? Isn't that what many people in Britain & the Walt & Mearshmeir waiting for?

55 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:32:59am

"Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit smoking!"

- bho

56 realwest  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:33:43am

re: #36 joncelli
Um, there are two teeny-weeny little problems with your otherwise fine proposals: one is we no longer know where Pakistan's nuclear weapons are stored and two, for some strange reason, the Pakistani's don't exactly want to have their nation either taken over or destroyed by someone else, especially India.

57 SFGoth  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:33:51am

LOL, Obama may get buyer's remorse faster than his supporters. Not to make light of this situation, but...

58 Gella  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:34:07am

re: #54 AG in Houston

When does the Jewish conpiracy start to come into play? Isn't that what many people in Britain & the Walt & Mearshmeir waiting for?

hey it never stopped

59 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:34:11am

re: #53 ploome hineni

one of my oldest friends, and her husband and anaesthesiologist, believe that NObama is doing a great job

all these problems are left over clean up from the BUsh admin

and we need to give him a chance, and the Repubs are blocking Nobam

educated stupid people


Scary isn't it? My neighbor is about the same, while questioning some of O's moves, he explains it all away with his hatred for Bush.

60 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:34:24am

re: #50 Last Mohican

Obviously I haven't read this report, but it sounds like it's missing the point, yet again.

The ISI is basically a state-supported faction of Al Qaeda, one that sometimes does and sometimes doesn't agree with what the rest of Al Qaeda is doing. Asking the ISI to help us track down "militants" is like asking Al Qaeda to help us track down "militants."


Well, the Taliban is the ISI's child, now grown up with a life of his own, while the proud parents watch and send him advice, and they, in turn, support al Qaeda. Let's just hope they don't ship any nice nuclear splodey toys to their child.

61 opnion  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:34:34am

re: #49 johnnyreb

It is just a matter of time. I am betting on Mexico to go down first. However, Pakistan does have nukes, hmmm...

As far as Mexico going down , blaming America has already started.
That idiot Geraldo had a guest on last night, both of them saying that it is the arms coming from the US. The guest said that a ban on assault weapons is what is needed.
These are drug gangs they will get their weapons, where ever.

62 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:34:37am
63 realwest  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:34:49am

re: #37 opnion
Hey there opnion! "Sloganeering is a poor no substitute for competence."
There, FTFY!

64 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:35:04am

The next briefing, they'll leave not saying 'Holy sh*t', they'll be covered in the unholy sort.

Read this report:
Nawaz Sharif celebrates victory in Pakistan stand-off as judges are reinstated
Quote:
'Nawaz Sharif, Pakistan’s opposition leader, called off a protest march to the capital this morning after the Government, under pressure from the Army and the United States, bowed to his demand to reinstate a sacked chief justice.
Lawyers and opposition supporters were celebrating after Asif Ali Zardari, the beleaguered President, agreed to restore Iftikhar Chaudhry as the country’s top judge from March 21.'

Tehre has been massive unrest - adn there will be much more of this.
The Military and the ISI are in with the Taliban, moderate or not - its about power and who can deliver.

PB0 and his minions are indeed amateurs.
I pray that the soldiers of both of our Armed Forces will not be put even more deeply into harm's way ...

65 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:35:13am

Let's see, China, Russia, Venezuela, Cuba, and now Pakistan. Good job so far boys.

By the way, it appears the Duchy of Fenwick is also pissed off at us. And you remember what happened last time, right?

Morons.

66 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:35:36am

re: #53 ploome hineni

one of my oldest friends, and her husband and anaesthesiologist, believe that NObama is doing a great job

all these problems are left over clean up from the BUsh admin

and we need to give him a chance, and the Repubs are blocking Nobam

educated stupid people

I would say that he has anesthetized the logical part of his brain, but that would be cruel.
Just try to expose him to oxygen.

67 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:35:47am
68 pat  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:35:59am

The majority of education in Pakistan is in Madrasses.

69 realwest  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:36:50am

re: #45 Emerald
"They're in over their heads, and they won't admit they can't deal with it, nor ask for help in dealing with it."
FTFY!

70 thedopefishlives  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:36:59am

re: #59 soxfan4life

Scary isn't it? My neighbor is about the same, while questioning some of O's moves, he explains it all away with his hatred for Bush.

What's ironic about this is, when the election was going on, most of us here PREDICTED this would be the effect. All problems in this country, for the next 40 years, will somehow be "inherited" from President Bush. People really are THAT stupid.

71 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:37:00am
72 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:38:03am
73 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:38:34am
74 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:38:47am

PB0 and his minions are indeed amateurs.
I pray that the soldiers of both of our Armed Forces will not be put even more deeply into harm's way ...

My uncle sat with Gen. Powell at Clinton's inauguration and could feel the hatred coming out towards the President. He knew how much the newage Dems despised and tried to destroy the military yet still supported Obama. He has taken his new seat next to a certain MA Senator as a traitorous POS former serviceman with that support.

75 Boxy_brown  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:38:57am
One White House aide emerged from an intelligence briefing on Pakistan three days after Mr Obama’s inauguration to exclaim: “Holy s—t!”

All the great leaders surrounded themselves with people who reacted that way to crisis and challenge... Right?

76 opnion  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:39:00am

re: #63 realwest

Hey there opnion! "Sloganeering is a poor no substitute for competence."
There, FTFY!

Hi Real, you have got it more exact.

77 JohnAdams  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:39:04am

re: #68 pat

The majority of education indoctrination in Pakistan is in Madrasses.

That place is hell with nukes. Holy shit.

78 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:39:30am

I do not believe that radical Islam can be defeated entirely by outside force...I don't think Pakistan and Afghanistan are worth the blood and treasure and decades to try and moderate...the very nature of Islam is aggressive to suicidal ends...we need to focus on some kind of containment strategey, left alone to slaughter each other...deny nukes and let the rest go it's own way

79 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:40:39am

re: #75 Boxy_brown

All the great leaders surrounded themselves with people who reacted that way to crisis and challenge... Right?


I sure wish George Patton was around to bitchslap Obama and take charge of the situation.

80 realwest  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:40:44am

re: #60 Kosh's Shadow
" Let's just hope they don't didn't ship any nice nuclear splodey toys to their child."
FTFY - and I think you're post is otherwise spot on.

81 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:40:50am

re: #73 ploome hineni

during WW2 we also fough a racist fanatic ideology

and look what it took to defeat it

total war

we are not yet ready to prevail

And we didn't defeat Nazism; there are still plenty of Nazis in Europe. Their numbers seem to be growing.

82 JohnAdams  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:41:09am

re: #72 buzzsawmonkey

We are being led by pusillanimous fools.

Had to look it up. Nice word. "Lacking courage and having a contemptible timidity." Pronouced pew-sul-animus

83 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:41:16am
One White House aide emerged from an intelligence briefing on Pakistan three days after Mr Obama’s inauguration to exclaim: “Holy s—t!”

Hasn't stopped the cocktail parties though, has it?

84 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:41:19am

re: #61 opnion

As far as Mexico going down , blaming America has already started.
That idiot Geraldo had a guest on last night, both of them saying that it is the arms coming from the US. The guest said that a ban on assault weapons is what is needed.
These are drug gangs they will get their weapons, where ever.

Last week when the Attorney General announced Obama's plans to ban assault-style rifles, he said that (paraphrasing) we need to stem the arms flow to Mexico and cited as a reason, that Mexican Gov't troops are under fire from automatic weapons and grenades.
/Better stock up on grenades and automatic weapons before they're banned, in that case.

85 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:41:24am

re: #81 Kosh's Shadow

And we didn't defeat Nazism; there are still plenty of Nazis in Europe. Their numbers seem to be growing.

They now have a friend in the Whitehouse.

86 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:41:24am

re: #72 buzzsawmonkey

We are being led by pusillanimous fools.

Why those lily-livered, milquetoast, sons of . . .

87 Last Mohican  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:41:49am

re: #53 ploome hineni

I work in a large hospital full of highly intelligent, highly educated people. And you'd have to look extremely hard to find anyone who isn't exactly like these people. You could mention to them, for example, how dangerous Pakistan's instability is, and their response would be "yeah, Bush sure screwed that one up, didn't he?" Without any thought whatsoever about what Bush may have done that may have caused or worsened the problem.

I cannot overstate how deeply upset I am by this bizarre delusional affliction that has overcome most of America.

88 justabill  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:42:01am

re: #33 ploome hineni

..reading that report is entering into the surreal.
A bunch of western 'experts' trying to understand Afganistan and Pakistan through a western Christian Post-Modernist perpective

about who is destablizing/influencing whom..

and the ONLY issue that seems to be avoided is islam, and that binLaden's shot across our bow, unleashed this global jihad

this is all the result of the teachings of this supremist fascist death cult responsible the poverty, ignorance, chaos and brutal violence in the region and exported by the indoctrinated bots from the region

islam teaches that the supremacy of islam, and establishing sharia in the world, superceeds all other efforts

thinking education, prosperity and peace will trump jihad in islam, is a hallucination


fixed that for you.

89 JohnAdams  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:42:35am

re: #78 albusteve

I do not believe that radical Islam can be defeated entirely by outside force...I don't think Pakistan and Afghanistan are worth the blood and treasure and decades to try and moderate...the very nature of Islam is aggressive to suicidal ends...we need to focus on some kind of containment strategey, left alone to slaughter each other...deny nukes and let the rest go it's own way

Yup. Take the nukes and let them eat their own.

90 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:42:39am

re: #72 buzzsawmonkey

We are being led by pusillanimous fools.

re: #86 Creeping Eruption

Why those lily-livered, milquetoast, sons of . . .

Going for the Synonym pun thread . . . (no, not the Cinnamon Bun thread)

91 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:42:46am

And, given the situation overall, this really isn't very OT:

White House May Want AIG Money Back

From the article:

The administration official said that the bonuses "long been known about inside and outside AIG. But we didn’t want to accept them.”

And,

The administration is concerned that public reaction to the bonuses could affect the president's overall economic agenda, reports Maer.

They knew about pre-approved bonuses, gave AIG the money anyway, realized the public reaction might be negative, and now want it back.

Nice job. Oh yeah, Pakistan is a problem too.

Try, please try, to get at least something right.

92 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:42:54am
93 little boomer  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:43:13am

I don't see a fairy tale ending for the Pakistani people.

94 SevoGuy  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:43:20am

Very early after 9/11, I've read many articles criticizing the Bush Administration for not recognizing that Pakistan is more a threat to Western Civilization then Al Qaeda was.

Why were we helping Pervez Musharraf's government with money and aid? This got us nothing except a stronger Pakistani military ready to go to war with India. Musharraf and the Pakistanis played Bush for a fool.

Now is the time to pull all aid from Pakistan and let this failed state fold like a house of cards.

95 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:43:23am
96 Sifty  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:43:57am

lol.

Next thing you know, they'll say they hate us.

97 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:44:22am

Well, we know the Norks will definately launch their new toy in April and have no fear that anyone will do anything about it.

"Hey, they just want to be able to put a communications satellite in orbit. What's wrong with that? We all have cell phones - it would be racist for us to deny the people of North Korea the benefiits of modern technology. Sure, every phone would be tapped by the North Korean Gestapo Police, and no one has enough food to eat, or heat in the home, or basic medicine, but I'm sure all those bare necessities will be provided by the North Korean government once they get that new satellite in orbit. And besides, they are our friends now!" - unnamed Obama administration official

98 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:44:36am

re: #92 ploome hineni

keep it real

I value my account

99 J.S.  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:44:40am

Only NOW the Obami administration has figured this out -- that Pakistan poses a graver threat to the security of western nations (including the U.S) than Afghanistan?

100 realwest  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:44:47am

re: #64 yma o hyd
Hi {yma} - sorry to have to disagree with you here, but the ISI is definitely the parent of the Taliban, but the Military traditionally owes it's loyalty to ITSELF and to what it envisions is a SECULAR Pakistan.
They have demonstrated this many times in the past.
And I for one wish the hell President Bush hadn't listened to his State Department and NOT backed Mushareef because, fragile though it was, Mush did have control over the Military and was "infilitrating" the ISI.

101 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:44:51am

re: #87 Last Mohican

I work in a large hospital full of highly intelligent, highly educated people. And you'd have to look extremely hard to find anyone who isn't exactly like these people. You could mention to them, for example, how dangerous Pakistan's instability is, and their response would be "yeah, Bush sure screwed that one up, didn't he?" Without any thought whatsoever about what Bush may have done that may have caused or worsened the problem.

I cannot overstate how deeply upset I am by this bizarre delusional affliction that has overcome most of America.

So, of one of the medical staff makes a mistake, say missing part of a cancer, do they say that he screwed it up, they should bring in a faith healer?
Because that is what happened in this election. Bush made mistakes, but 0bama is making much bigger ones.

102 opnion  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:44:58am

re: #84 Capitalist Tool

Last week when the Attorney General announced Obama's plans to ban assault-style rifles, he said that (paraphrasing) we need to stem the arms flow to Mexico and cited as a reason, that Mexican Gov't troops are under fire from automatic weapons and grenades.
/Better stock up on grenades and automatic weapons before they're banned, in that case.

Yeah, the point is that the Mexican drug gangs are , well criminals.
It is not a bad idea to stop arms from the US , but there are lots of places to buy weaopns.
Seal the Southern Border, nothing in, nothing out except through check points.

103 nyc redneck  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:45:30am

o is going to get the 3 a.m. call and go UH UH UH , and drop the phone.

he is not up for the job that 52% of this country elected him to.
what deranged blind fools. libs are dangerous and stupid.

104 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:45:43am

re: #89 JohnAdams

Yup. Take the nukes and let them eat their own.

Just keep them contained; otherwise, they want to spread to places like Israel, Spain (Andalusia), and the rest of the world.

105 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:45:50am

re: #100 realwest

Hi {yma} - sorry to have to disagree with you here, but the ISI is definitely the parent of the Taliban, but the Military traditionally owes it's loyalty to ITSELF and to what it envisions is a SECULAR Pakistan.
They have demonstrated this many times in the past.
And I for one wish the hell President Bush hadn't listened to his State Department and NOT backed Mushareef because, fragile though it was, Mush did have control over the Military and was "infilitrating" the ISI.

Don't forget the party line- "we" made Bin Laden what he is...
/

106 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:46:15am
107 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:46:22am

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit main-lining heroin.

108 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:46:38am
109 realwest  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:46:49am

re: #65 subsailor68
Ah, y'all left off Great Britain and Brazil. Brazil being the most important right now.
This ALL from the gang that promised us that the world would love the US again.
Fucking morons, all of 'em.

110 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:46:53am

I wonder how many 0bama voters an accurately locate Pakistan on a map.

111 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:47:34am
112 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:47:34am

re: #34 Ojoe

When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars

This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius
The Age of Aquarius
Aquarius! Aquarius!

Harmony and understanding
Sympathy and trust abounding
No more falsehoods or derisions
Golden living dreams of visions
Mystic crystal revelation
And the mind's true liberation
Aquarius! Aquarius!

When the moon is in the Seventh House
And Jupiter aligns with Mars
Then peace will guide the planets
And love will steer the stars

This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius
The Age of Aquarius
Aquarius! Aquarius!

Let the sun shine, Let the sun shine in
The sun shine in
Let the sun shine, Let the sun shine in
The sun shine in
Let the sun shine, Let the sun shine in
The sun shine in
Let the sun shine, Let the sun shine in
The sun shine in

113 thedopefishlives  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:47:36am

re: #110 Sharmuta

I wonder how many 0bama voters an accurately locate Pakistan on a map.

How many Obama voters can even accurately locate the US on a map?

114 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:47:40am

re: #95 ploome hineni

Japan?

We did defeat, largely, the militarists in Japan.
I wonder how much support they really had, once the Japanese found their Emperor wasn't a god.

115 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:47:40am

re: #107 MandyManners

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit main-lining heroin.

There's always Basil Hayden.
Just need a shot glass.

116 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:47:44am

re: #99 J.S.

Only NOW the Obami administration has figured this out -- that Pakistan poses a graver threat to the security of western nations (including the U.S) than Afghanistan?

Remember during the campaign he said something about attacking Pakistan? Imagine the outrage had McCain or Bush said anything about attacking a nuclear country?Seems the O can't even believe his campaign rhetoric

117 JohnAdams  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:47:45am

re: #107 MandyManners

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit main-lining heroin.

Come and wipe the macaroni off my computer screen.

118 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:47:47am

I'm going back to the shire, where you can let those nice men of Rohan patrol the border for you, have your elevensies, and pretend that there are no bad or dangerous people out there.

/Do you suppose the hobbits watched reality tv?

119 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:48:03am

re: #111 buzzsawmonkey

You're still a heroine here, MM.

*smoochies*

120 opnion  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:48:07am

re: #110 Sharmuta

I wonder how many 0bama voters an accurately locate Pakistan on a map.

Well, they know that it is somewhere in Central America.

121 Ben Hur  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:48:18am

So, does this mean Dick Cheney ISN'T Darth Vader?

Effen morons.

Yet another failed Islamic state.

They'll blame something else of course.

Yes yes, the reason why Communism failed in the USSR wasn't because there is anything wrong with Communism, it was because the Russians didn't do it right- they hated women and minorities.


Here it will be the Joos and Crusaders.

122 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:48:25am

re: #107 MandyManners

Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit main-lining heroin.

According to my father-in-law, I main-line chocolate.

123 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:48:33am

re: #115 Capitalist Tool

There's always Basil Hayden.
Just need a shot glass.

You don't shoot *this* stuff. You sip it slowly.

124 JohnAdams  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:48:42am

re: #110 Sharmuta

I wonder how many 0bama voters an accurately locate Pakistan on a map.

Hey, it's "Pocky-shton" to you mister.

125 Chicago Blonde  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:48:46am

So what does Joe the Biden's Ouija board say we should do?
/

126 little boomer  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:48:47am

re: #103 nyc redneck

o is going to get the 3 a.m. call and go UH UH UH , and drop the phone.

he is not up for the job that 52% of this country elected him to.
what deranged blind fools. libs are dangerous and stupid.

Do you really think Michelle is going to let him answer that phone?!?

127 Not Sold In Stores! Act NOW!  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:48:55am

This just in. I think.unclench?

128 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:48:56am

re: #117 JohnAdams

Come and wipe the macaroni off my computer screen.

Only if you promise to share.

129 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:49:22am

So the new Communist El Presidente of El Salvador is a former CNN employee.
A communist working at CNN?
Who knew?

130 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:49:33am

re: #124 JohnAdams

Hey, it's "Pocky-shton" to you mister.

Who you calling "mister", Mister?

131 Randall Gross  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:49:35am

Some of us have been saying that Pakistan is the root of all "non mid-east" non-Qods/Hamas /Hezbollah terror a long time.

132 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:49:36am

re: #125 Chicago Blonde

So what does Joe the Biden's Ouija board say we should do?
/

No. He uses magic 8 ball.

Outlook not so good

133 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:49:45am

re: #118 EmmmieG

I'm going back to the shire, where you can let those nice men of Rohan patrol the border for you, have your elevensies, and pretend that there are no bad or dangerous people out there.

/Do you suppose the hobbits watched reality tv?

I'm sure they had a Food Network.

134 Chicago Blonde  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:49:47am

re: #122 EmmmieG

According to my father-in-law, I main-line chocolate.

Cousin? :)

135 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:49:53am

re: #122 EmmmieG

According to my father-in-law, I main-line chocolate.

Cheaper and more legal.

136 lostlakehiker  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:49:56am

The main threat, not in terms of likelihood but in terms of consequences should it come to fruition, is that Pakistan itself, with its nuclear arsenal, will become a Taliban-like state.

This is hardly impossible. Pakistan is having no luck at improving its economy. Pakistani elites are small, they take a staggering share of national production, and everybody else gets squat. This kind of situation is what revolutions are made of, especially when you have destabilizing influences from the world economy, India, and Afghanistan, all at work simultaneously.

That revolution would end up being Islamist, even if at the outset you had Communists, Anarchists, and Scientologists contending for power.

The British knew better in 1940 than to allow the French home fleet in Toulon to fall into Nazi hands, and even though France was still in the war and their nominal ally, when French defeat and surrender had become inevitable, the British politely asked the French fleet to come over or to scuttle. When this was refused, the British fleet making the polite request opened fire.

Whether this sort of thing would be a good idea this time around is above my pay grade, but one hopes the Obama administration has contingency plans. If they learn that it has to be done, they'd better have already taken the necessary steps so that it can in fact be done.

137 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:49:59am

re: #109 realwest

Ah, y'all left off Great Britain and Brazil. Brazil being the most important right now.
This ALL from the gang that promised us that the world would love the US again.
Fucking morons, all of 'em.

Hi RW! Yep, great catch on those two as well.

After the debacle with Gordon Brown, you can almost hear the wheels turning:

"Okay, what can we do to insult Brazil guys?"

"Hey, I know! Let's misspell the president's name."

"Cool!"

F-in' morons indeed!

138 mijacat  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:50:01am

Joncelli's three-point plan for the Pakistani situation:

1. Seize Pakistan's nukes.
2. Destroy the ISI.
3. Back the Indians in whatever they choose to do after 1 and 2 are implemented.

Win/win. (Well, not for Pakistan.)
---
Works for me.

Interesting historical note - India sided with Russia during the cold war, we got Pakistan. Italy allied with the Axis during WWII, we got France.

How the f*** does the U.S. always end up with the self-destructive allies?

Mew

139 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:50:04am

re: #125 Chicago Blonde

So what does Joe the Biden's Ouija board say we should do?
/

DUCK!

140 nyc redneck  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:50:08am

re: #110 Sharmuta

I wonder how many 0bama voters an accurately locate Pakistan on a map.

i wonder if these fools realize that islamic terrorists would not hesitate to
nuke us.
oh wait, can't say "islamic terrorist."
great, problem gone.

141 Last Mohican  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:50:10am

re: #78 albusteve

I do not believe that radical Islam can be defeated entirely by outside force...I don't think Pakistan and Afghanistan are worth the blood and treasure and decades to try and moderate...the very nature of Islam is aggressive to suicidal ends...we need to focus on some kind of containment strategey, left alone to slaughter each other...deny nukes and let the rest go it's own way

Containment strategy is a good idea. I'd say unplugging radical Islam's financing would be even better. It seems to me that the voraciousness with which radical Islam is devouring the minds of the entire Muslim world is a consequence of a single random quirk of history: the fact that the most backwards, primitive, evil Muslims of all, the Saudis, are the ones who ended up with most of the oil underneath them. The Western world, America especially, pragmatically decided to enter into a business relationship with those monsters, sending them astronomical amounts of money, despite the fact that they're using that money to actively attempt to destroy modern human civilization. And it's working, very well in fact.

There is no more urgent need in the world now than unplugging the flow of petrodollars to jihadists' wallets. The situation will continue to get worse until we do that, and for at least a hundred years thereafter.

142 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:50:21am

re: #126 little boomer

Do you really think Michelle is going to let him answer that phone?!?


Just let Joe get it, he is your foreign policy expert.

143 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:50:22am

re: #127 nines09

This just in. I think.unclench?

Better there than here. Anyway, the poor, poor, prisoners will feel more at home in Europistan.

144 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:50:25am

re: #110 Sharmuta

I wonder how many 0bama voters an accurately locate Pakistan on a map.

start out with an upside down map...heh

145 realwest  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:50:28am

re: #78 albusteve
The problem is how to deny nukes to a nation which has them and has now carefully hidden them since Obama, when campaigning for election (as oppposed to his continual campaigning now) said he'd invade Pakistan?
Gonna be impossible to do. They have nuclear weapons and we don't know where they are. Just pray none have yet been given to the Taliban.

146 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:50:30am
147 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:50:37am

re: #100 realwest

Hi {yma} - sorry to have to disagree with you here, but the ISI is definitely the parent of the Taliban, but the Military traditionally owes it's loyalty to ITSELF and to what it envisions is a SECULAR Pakistan.
They have demonstrated this many times in the past.
And I for one wish the hell President Bush hadn't listened to his State Department and NOT backed Mushareef because, fragile though it was, Mush did have control over the Military and was "infilitrating" the ISI.

Hiya, {rw}!
Thanks for the first part - didn't know that.

But I thoroughly agree with the second part of your post.
I could never understand why Musharraf had to go, according to the State Dept.
That was even then such an obvious and huge error, it defied belief.
I wonder if that was driven by Condi alone, or who of the permanent staff had their dirty hands in that decision.

I do wish John Bolton would go in and find out, for all our sakes ...

148 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:50:56am

O.T. the other day I was commenting on Rush and some on the right criticizing BHO outrage at CEO salaries at failing companies and it was pointed out that not all on the right are in agreement either way. I agree with this Bill Kristal piece.

"Can capitalism survive the behavior of some capitalists? It's always been an open question. But if capitalism is to survive, shouldn't the Republican party, the party that defends democratic capitalism, be particularly vehement in denouncing its excesses? Isn't this a pretty spectacular one? "

More here

link

149 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:51:10am

re: #140 nyc redneck

i wonder if these fools realize that islamic terrorists would not hesitate to
nuke us.
oh wait, can't say "islamic terrorist."
great, problem gone.


Holy Shit? Someone affliated by this was shocked into profanity by this. . .

Holy shit indeed!

150 mijacat  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:51:16am

re: #94 SevoGuy

Very early after 9/11, I've read many articles criticizing the Bush Administration for not recognizing that Pakistan is more a threat to Western Civilization then Al Qaeda was.

Why were we helping Pervez Musharraf's government with money and aid? This got us nothing except a stronger Pakistani military ready to go to war with India. Musharraf and the Pakistanis played Bush for a fool.

Now is the time to pull all aid from Pakistan and let this failed state fold like a house of cards.

---
Most houses of cards don't have nuclear weapons...

Mew

151 Chicago Blonde  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:51:22am

re: #132 lawhawk

Maybe O's was stuck on "Outlook hazy - ask again tomorrow" and that's why he voted present so often.

152 ilzito guacamolito  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:51:22am

re: #132 lawhawk

No. He uses magic 8 ball.

Outlook not so good

I don't remember, but is there a message that pops up which reads "VOTE PRESENT"?

153 JohnAdams  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:51:36am

re: #130 Sharmuta

Who you calling "mister", Mister?

Er...tips hat. "Gorgeous?"

154 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:51:50am

re: #129 Capitalist Tool

So the new Communist El Presidente of El Salvador is a former CNN employee.
A communist working at CNN?
Who knew?

He's leading the FMNL. Remember them and the Sandinistas?

155 nyc redneck  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:51:52am

re: #126 little boomer

Do you really think Michelle is going to let him answer that phone?!?

only if he has a telepromptor handy.

156 rawmuse  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:51:53am

re: #110 Sharmuta

I wonder how many 0bama voters an accurately locate Pakistan on a map.

Or find their own butt with either hand...

157 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:52:07am
158 J.S.  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:52:26am

re: #116 soxfan4life

That's right -- during that debate with Hillary, Obama went off on a war-mongering spiel about attacking Pakistan...(this administration appears increasingly contradictory/confused/befuddled...I just read an article about how Obama is juggling all of these balls in the air -- he's taking on sooo much -- and the question becomes, when will this juggling act start crashing?)

159 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:52:33am

re: #142 soxfan4life

Just let Joe get it, he is your foreign policy expert.

And while you're at it dear leader- cram for that test that is coming. . .you [self delete} !

160 realwest  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:52:33am

re: #87 Last Mohican
Well mention Obama's plans for National Healthcare; bet money you'd get a vastly different reaction.

161 ilzito guacamolito  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:52:40am

re: #151 Chicago Blonde

Maybe O's was stuck on "Outlook hazy - ask again tomorrow" and that's why he voted present so often.

Damn! You beat me to it by a nanosecond.

162 Occasional Reader  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:53:06am

re: #154 MandyManners

He's leading the FMNL. Remember them and the Sandinistas?

They were warm, loving, and highly Che-like-photogenic revolutionaries who wanted nothing more than to better the lives of the downtrodden?

/watching Oliver Stone movies

163 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:53:16am

re: #146 Iron Fist

Pakistan needs to be told in no uncertain terms that if this happens Pakistan will cease to exist. Not that we will write them a fucking strongly worded letter, or go to the fucking UN hat in hand asking for some dumbass meaningless piece of shit "resolution", or even use any fucking harsh language. W-88s are on the way before we even get the motherfucking fires under control.

And then have the balls to back it up.

I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for that eunuch, Barack "No-Balls" Obama to get with the program. He probably won't even do the strongly worded letter. More like, he'll ask what more we can give them to stop them from beating us up on the playground. We're all out of lunch money.


By the time we are done with this administration, Milquetoast diplomacy will look good. Pretty sad when the Sec. of State and First Lady have bigger balls than the President.

164 Josephine  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:53:41am

re: #27 lawhawk

Re. "And who exactly is a moderate Taliban?"

I attended a rally recently of Pashtun-Canadians against the Taliban.

Afterwards, I talked to a couple of men: the older one was from Afghanistan and the younger one might have been from Pakistan.

The younger one explained it this way. The Americans bomb the Taliban but they also accidentally bomb the homes of innocent civilians. The first time their relatives are killed, the villagers tell themselves it wasn't the Americans' fault. But the second time it happens, the villagers get mad at America and decide to join the Taliban to fight against the killer Americans.

I don't know if this is true or accurate; it's what he told me.

So perhaps when the experts talk about the "moderate Taliban", they are talking about the men who joined not out of religious imperative but because they were mad at the U.S. or the ones who found out they would get a much higher salary in the Taliban than in the police force.

165 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:53:42am

re: #138 mijacat

Joncelli's three-point plan for the Pakistani situation:

1. Seize Pakistan's nukes.
2. Destroy the ISI.
3. Back the Indians in whatever they choose to do after 1 and 2 are implemented.

Win/win. (Well, not for Pakistan.)
---
Works for me.

Interesting historical note - India sided with Russia during the cold war, we got Pakistan. Italy allied with the Axis during WWII, we got France.

How the f*** does the U.S. always end up with the self-destructive allies?

Mew

India has now been moving away from the Russian camp. They still buy aircraft from Russia, but they no longer toe the Moscow line. They are capitalist, and want business from the US. Otherwise, they'd end up with all these unemployed tech support workers telling everyone to reboot the country.

166 Chicago Blonde  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:53:43am

re: #161 ilzito guacamolito

*whistles Twilight Zone music* ;)

167 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:53:44am

re: #110 Sharmuta

I wonder how many 0bama voters an accurately locate Pakistan on a map.

Its not the Obama voters I'd worry about - its the Obama advisors: do they know where Pakistan is?
One gets the feeling they have no idea - and they also have no idea about the two most important powers next to Pakistan - China and India.
Nor about the history of that region, since 1947.

168 Bloodnok  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:54:00am

re: #125 Chicago Blonde

So what does Joe the Biden's Ouija board say we should do?
/

Gird our loins.

169 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:54:06am

re: #162 Occasional Reader

They were warm, loving, and highly Che-like-photogenic revolutionaries who wanted nothing more than to better the lives of the downtrodden?

/watching Oliver Stone movies

Yeah, demz da onez.

170 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:54:07am

re: #139 MandyManners

DUCK!

And cover.

171 pat  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:54:12am

The fact of the matter is this, automatic weapon trade is strictly licensed. Every weapon can traced to the point of legal sale. Some American gun dealers have been arrested. these dealers were licensed for military export. Since about 20 countries used the M16 at some point, there are presumably a lot of second hand weapons around in the International trade, again this has nothing to do with American gun laws. If the Mexicans wanted M16s they need go no further than Guatemala for second hand, their own Federal Police for brand new ones. this has nothing to do with ordinary American gun owners except as Obama Bull shit.

172 JohnAdams  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:54:32am

re: #145 realwest

The problem is how to deny nukes to a nation which has them and has now carefully hidden them since Obama, when campaigning for election (as oppposed to his continual campaigning now) said he'd invade Pakistan?
Gonna be impossible to do. They have nuclear weapons and we don't know where they are. Just pray none have yet been given to the Taliban.

And Kahn is free.

173 pat  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:54:44am

re: #110 Sharmuta

I wonder how many 0bama voters an accurately locate Pakistan on a map.

I wonder how many White House employees can.

174 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:54:49am

re: #138 mijacat

Joncelli's three-point plan for the Pakistani situation:

1. Seize Pakistan's nukes.
2. Destroy the ISI.
3. Back the Indians in whatever they choose to do after 1 and 2 are implemented.

Win/win. (Well, not for Pakistan.)
---
Works for me.

Interesting historical note - India sided with Russia during the cold war, we got Pakistan. Italy allied with the Axis during WWII, we got France.

How the f*** does the U.S. always end up with the self-destructive allies?

Mew

It's a question of survival. Who looks like the strongest horse? Why would you side with the weak one? Right now we have to look more like a laughing stock every day.

175 realwest  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:55:00am

re: #89 JohnAdams
Uh, how exactly do we "take their nukes" when we no longer know where they are? The day after Obama ("I'll invade Pakistan to deny safe haven to the Taliban") got elected, the Pakistani's moved all their nukes and we don't know where they are.
I'll lay odds that was the reason for the "Holy Shit" comment.

176 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:55:01am

re: #168 Bloodnok

Gird our loins.

I'd rather loin my girds.

177 Bloodnok  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:55:05am

re: #148 avanti

O.T. the other day I was commenting on Rush and some on the right criticizing BHO outrage at CEO salaries at failing companies and it was pointed out that not all on the right are in agreement either way. I agree with this Bill Kristal piece.

"Can capitalism survive the behavior of some capitalists? It's always been an open question. But if capitalism is to survive, shouldn't the Republican party, the party that defends democratic capitalism, be particularly vehement in denouncing its excesses? Isn't this a pretty spectacular one? "

More here

link


DEFLECTOR SHIELDS: ON

178 Erik The Red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:55:22am

How the fuck did the US elect 44? Not only is he still wet behind his ears, the people he has surrounded himself with are still in diapers.

God help us and the world.

179 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:55:35am

Freakin' dryer buzzer AGAIN. I'm just gonna' shoot the darn thing.

180 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:55:38am
181 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:55:47am

re: #158 J.S.

That's right -- during that debate with Hillary, Obama went off on a war-mongering spiel about attacking Pakistan...(this administration appears increasingly contradictory/confused/befuddled...I just read an article about how Obama is juggling all of these balls in the air -- he's taking on sooo much -- and the question becomes, when will this juggling act start crashing?)

It hasn't started yet?

182 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:55:52am

re: #160 realwest

Well mention Obama's plans for National Healthcare; bet money you'd get a vastly different reaction.

But, gee, he's already got that covered (in case ya missed this little gem):

Administration open to taxing health benefits

Opening paragraph:

The Obama administration is signaling to Congress that the president could support taxing some employee health benefits, as several influential lawmakers and many economists favor, to help pay for overhauling the health care system.

183 Josephine  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:55:56am

re: #25 Kosh's Shadow

I hope India is keeping track of Pakistan's nukes, and has plans to deal with them, because the 0 administration doesn't.

On the contrary, I think they do have a plan: In the coming O-topia, there will be no more need for nukes, so every country will disarm.

La-la-la!

184 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:56:21am

re: #116 soxfan4life

Remember during the campaign he said something about attacking Pakistan? Imagine the outrage had McCain or Bush said anything about attacking a nuclear country?Seems the O can't even believe his campaign rhetoric

He said "If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will" and I agree 100%.
I don't give a shit if Osama and his buddies were hiding in Norway, I'd feel the same way, sorry.

185 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:56:29am

re: #181 soxfan4life

It hasn't started yet?

Magic 8 ball says. . .all signs point ot yes!

186 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:56:30am

re: #146 Iron Fist

It's better to be feared than liked.

Besides- they don't like us anyways. When they say they do, it's because they want something. Bunch of spoiled brats. Spare the rod, and spoil the child, I say.

187 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:56:55am

re: #141 Last Mohican

Great post - fully agree!

188 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:57:16am

re: #182 subsailor68

But, gee, he's already got that covered (in case ya missed this little gem):

Administration open to taxing health benefits

Opening paragraph:

The Obama administration is signaling to Congress that the president could support taxing some employee health benefits, as several influential lawmakers and many economists favor, to help pay for overhauling the health care system.

Wasn't that a bad idea when it was John McCain's idea?

189 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:57:21am

re: #141 Last Mohican

Might even be simpler than that...
The State Dept. could address a bunch of envelopes to the top 10 biggest big shots in each of the Gulf states and simply include 2 photographs- the first of a B-52 and the second of the Kaaba inside the Grand Mosque with a four- word missive- "STOP IT OR ELSE".

190 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:57:23am

re: #175 realwest

Uh, how exactly do we "take their nukes" when we no longer know where they are? The day after Obama ("I'll invade Pakistan to deny safe haven to the Taliban") got elected, the Pakistani's moved all their nukes and we don't know where they are.
I'll lay odds that was the reason for the "Holy Shit" comment.

I dunno...call James Bond?...there is a way to find them somehow, at that point we will have to go for the throat and it won't be easy and people will die...what are the options?

191 wiffersnapper  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:57:38am

I thought America didn't negotiate with terrorists? Well, that's definitely CHANGEd!

192 Erik The Red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:57:38am

re: #184 avanti

He said "If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will" and I agree 100%.
I don't give a shit if Osama and his buddies were hiding in Norway, I'd feel the same way, sorry.

You don't say that shit to the press. 44 has no clue and neither do you.

193 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:57:54am

re: #188 soxfan4life

Wasn't that a bad idea when it was John McCain's idea?

Change you can't believe. . .

194 The Optimist  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:58:13am

It is pronounced "Pachy-Stan" according to our great leader. They will be glad to meet with Obama when Obama explains that he was a muslim and he spent a few weeks there 40 years ago.

In fact, Obama is just the type of westerner that the Taliban would like to torture and kill.

195 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:58:16am
196 Chicago Blonde  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:58:29am

re: #188 soxfan4life

Wasn't that a bad idea when it was John McCain's idea?

/But...but...but that was diiiferent!

197 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:58:30am

We're Fucked 2.0

198 subsailor68  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:58:47am

re: #188 soxfan4life

Wasn't that a bad idea when it was John McCain's idea?

I believe you're correct! His idea - veddy bad. My idea - veddy good.

199 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:58:56am
“Holy s—t!”

Welcome to the real world, assholes!
You have obviously have been informed.
Past this point, any American blood spilled will be upon your hands.

/ever heard of Lady MacBeth, assholes?

200 pat  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:59:02am

Obama has relied upon his skin color to give him a pass with the MSM. Instead of studying up on issues while the heat was off, he blindly pursued doctrinaire policies as if reality was a distraction.

201 Bloodnok  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:59:25am

re: #192 Erik The Red

You don't say that shit to the press. 44 has no clue and neither do you.

He's a cowboy! A hawk! A madman!

/Oh wait, that's what the left said about Reagan when he suggested MAD

202 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:59:26am

re: #197 Who Watches the Watchmen?

We're Fucked 2.0

I think we passed the 2.0 stage quite some time ago. We're at We're Fucked 2.9 now with We're Fucked 3.0 Beta on the horizon.

203 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:59:27am

And this weekend 0bama wanted me to think the food industry was a hazard. I think this guy's priorities might be f*cked up.

204 Josephine  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:59:34am

re: #103 nyc redneck

o is going to get the 3 a.m. call and go UH UH UH , and drop the phone.

he is not up for the job that 52% of this country elected him to.
what deranged blind fools. libs are dangerous and stupid.

Yeah, or he'll be too "exhausted" and will let it go to voicemail on his Blackberry.

205 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:00:01am

re: #188 soxfan4life

Wasn't that a bad idea when it was John McCain's idea?

You don't understand the nuance. Taxing health benefits is bad when there is no alternative, but when people can use 0bamacare instead (and it's FREE!*), then the taxes are just to encourage proper use of the available services.
/
*Taxes not included.

206 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:00:28am

re: #184 avanti

He said "If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will" and I agree 100%.
I don't give a shit if Osama and his buddies were hiding in Norway, I'd feel the same way, sorry.


If Osama and his buddies were hiding in Norway, we wouldn't have to take action, Norway would. But when dealing with countries with nuclear capability one needs to walk alot softer and wield a much sharper stick. Obama seems to think walking softly means laying on our backs and exposing our soft white underbelly.

207 JohnAdams  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:00:45am

re: #186 Sharmuta

It's better to be feared than liked.

Besides- they don't like us anyways. When they say they do, it's because they want something. Bunch of spoiled brats. Spare the rod, and spoil the child, I say.

I think most of the world intuitively knows that the world needs an America with a big economic engine and a blood-curdling rebel yell. It's called the Peacekeeper.

208 ilzito guacamolito  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:00:55am

re: #202 Honorary Yooper

I think we passed the 2.0 stage quite some time ago. We're at We're Fucked 2.9 now with We're Fucked 3.0 Beta on the horizon.

Is there going to be a patch for We're Fucked 2.9?

209 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:00:57am
210 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:01:04am

re: #201 Bloodnok

He's a cowboy! A hawk! A madman!

/Oh wait, that's what the left said about Reagan when he suggested MAD

The far left already is accusing him of that for continuing many of GW policies like rendition, it drives them bat shit.

211 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:01:22am

re: #202 Honorary Yooper

I think we passed the 2.0 stage quite some time ago. We're at We're Fucked 2.9 now with We're Fucked 3.0 Beta on the horizon.

I didn't sign up to be a beta tester. Isn't there an open-source POTUS client somewhere?

212 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:01:49am

re: #203 Sharmuta

And this weekend 0bama wanted me to think the food industry was a hazard. I think this guy's priorities might be f*cked up.

He's not ready for the 3am phone call, much less a noon phone call. Obama is not ready for prime time, and prime time is going to be knocking on his door. Rahm Emanuel said not to waste a crisis, but this will not be the crisis they were looking for.

213 Erik The Red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:02:03am

re: #208 ilzito guacamolito

Is there going to be a patch for We're Fucked 2.9?

Yes but will be 4 years in development.

214 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:02:09am

re: #206 soxfan4life

If Osama and his buddies were hiding in Norway, we wouldn't have to take action, Norway would. But when dealing with countries with nuclear capability one needs to walk alot softer and wield a much sharper stick. Obama seems to think walking softly means laying on our backs and exposing our soft white underbelly.

I'm not so sure Norway would. How many muslim immigrants live in that country? They wouldn't want to, you know, rile up the 'youths'.

215 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:02:27am
216 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:02:32am

I have some rad ideas and people way smarter than me say "you just can't do that" then go on with all this
geopoly blab...in the end you simply must meet a threat with force, assuming you believe the threat...SA comes to mind and Pakistand is moving up my list...

217 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:02:44am
One White House aide emerged from an intelligence briefing on Pakistan three days after Mr Obama’s inauguration to exclaim: “Holy s—t!”

Is that real, or a joke?

Totally expected, but is that real, or a joke?

218 daledog  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:02:44am

re: #23 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

...innocent people are going to die...

and you or I may be among those people.

219 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:03:16am

So the Democrats putting pressure on President Bush to get rid of Musharaff maybe wasn't such a hot idea?

220 HoosierHoops  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:03:36am

re: #211 Who Watches the Watchmen?

I didn't sign up to be a beta tester. Isn't there an open-source POTUS client somewhere?

Up ding! good post

221 ErnieG  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:03:51am

re: #194 Venezuela lover

It is pronounced "Pachy-Stan" according to our great leader...

Yes. That pronunciation reminds me of the folks who, back in the day, would say Neeeghhharrraguahhh and ThaaanthaaalbaaaDORD.

222 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:04:11am

I made post after post after post after post warning 0bama that that chair was much less comfy than it looked.

He didn't pay attention at all.

223 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:04:28am

re: #219 Nevergiveup

So the Democrats putting pressure on President Bush to get rid of Musharaff maybe wasn't such a hot idea?


What's wrong with a little unrest and instability? As well as having A.Q. Khan on the loose?//

224 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:04:33am
225 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:04:36am

re: #202 Honorary Yooper

I think we passed the 2.0 stage quite some time ago. We're at We're Fucked 2.9 now with We're Fucked 3.0 Beta on the horizon.

Well, some good news, Obama spoke about a new small business plan and the market went up for a change after his speech. I still don't know how much longer I should stay in, but so far, I still trusting my broker.

226 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:04:40am

re: #199 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Welcome to the real world, assholes!
You have obviously have been informed.
Past this point, any American blood spilled will be upon your hands.

/ever heard of Lady MacBeth, assholes?


Spot Spot, DAMN! OUT!- or were you not talking about the literal wag the dog moment that is soon to break. . .the arrival of the dog. . .at the White House- we can replace the Checkers speech with the "hey, all that gloom and doom stuff was just to get my budget passed- it's all good, and look a PUPPY!"

227 funky chicken  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:04:45am

re: #36 joncelli

Joncelli's three-point plan for the Pakistani situation:

1. Seize Pakistan's nukes.
2. Destroy the ISI.
3. Back the Indians in whatever they choose to do after 1 and 2 are implemented.

Win/win. (Well, not for Pakistan.)

+1

Perhaps China would like to have Pakistan as a new territory? The Chinese could probably handle any insurrection no problem.

228 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:05:01am

re: #212 Honorary Yooper

He's not ready for the 3am phone call, much less a noon phone call. Obama is not ready for prime time, and prime time is going to be knocking on his door. Rahm Emanuel said not to waste a crisis, but this will not be the crisis they were looking for.

/some times you waste the crisis & sometimes the crisis wastes you.

229 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:05:02am

re: #182 subsailor68

But, gee, he's already got that covered (in case ya missed this little gem):

Administration open to taxing health benefits

Opening paragraph:

The Obama administration is signaling to Congress that the president could support taxing some employee health benefits, as several influential lawmakers and many economists favor, to help pay for overhauling the health care system.

Buncha' fucking Commie pigs, one and all.

230 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:05:12am

Biden told 0bama that the Indians would help find Pakistan's nukes.
He answered "Just as long as they don't go on the warpath. Me smoke-um peace pipe with them."
/do I need to?

231 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:05:14am

re: #208 ilzito guacamolito

Is there going to be a patch for We're Fucked 2.9?

Sure it is called We're Fucked Vista

232 UberInfidel67  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:05:20am

re: #36 joncelli I personally aint to concerned with Pakistan. It's time to pick a side and stick with it. You can't be all things to all people. Harsh, but true.

233 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:05:37am

re: #93 little boomer

I don't see a fairy tale ending for the Pakistani people.

I dunno, they could go all Humpty Dumpty on us.

234 Erik The Red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:05:55am

re: #222 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I made post after post after post after post warning 0bama that that chair was much less comfy than it looked.

He didn't pay attention at all.

I think his bed must feel the same. 50 odd days in office and he is tired. Welcome to the real world asshole. You wanted it now stop crying.

235 opnion  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:06:09am

re: #200 pat

Obama has relied upon his skin color to give him a pass with the MSM. Instead of studying up on issues while the heat was off, he blindly pursued doctrinaire policies as if reality was a distraction.

He is trying to squeeze reality into the Marxist template that he got from his life mentors.

236 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:06:18am

re: #214 Leonidas Hoplite

I'm not so sure Norway would. How many muslim immigrants live in that country? They wouldn't want to, you know, rile up the 'youths'.

Screw them, send a team in, snag his ass, then apologize to Norway for intrusion and wish them a nice day.

237 johnnyreb  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:06:31am

re: #171 pat

The fact of the matter is this, automatic weapon trade is strictly licensed. Every weapon can traced to the point of legal sale. Some American gun dealers have been arrested. these dealers were licensed for military export. Since about 20 countries used the M16 at some point, there are presumably a lot of second hand weapons around in the International trade, again this has nothing to do with American gun laws. If the Mexicans wanted M16s they need go no further than Guatemala for second hand, their own Federal Police for brand new ones. this has nothing to do with ordinary American gun owners except as Obama Bull shit.

You are correct. As I have said before, the Mexican drug lords are not getting the majority of their weapons from the US. They are getting some that have been stolen from the US military and from production runs at Colt, etc. But most are bought outside the US and then shipped across the border into Mexico. This is where the few that are getting caught and put into the newspapers and all. This is what the Libs are using as an excuse to bring back gun control. Most I suspect are coming in from Canada and using the US only as a conduit.

238 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:06:35am

re: #233 Ward Cleaver

I dunno, they could go all Humpty Dumpty on us.

Or Cast Lead. . .sheesh!//

239 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:06:38am

re: #206 soxfan4life

If Osama and his buddies were hiding in Norway, we wouldn't have to take action, Norway would. But when dealing with countries with nuclear capability one needs to walk alot softer and wield a much sharper stick. Obama seems to think walking softly means laying on our backs and exposing our soft white underbelly.

RACIST!

240 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:06:40am

re: #230 Kosh's Shadow

Biden told 0bama that the Indians would help find Pakistan's nukes.
He answered "Just as long as they don't go on the warpath. Me smoke-um peace pipe with them."
/do I need to?


When it comes to smoking peace pipe, 0 never passes that to Joe.

241 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:07:09am

re: #212 Honorary Yooper

He's not ready for the 3am phone call, much less a noon phone call. Obama is not ready for prime time, and prime time is going to be knocking on his door. Rahm Emanuel said not to waste a crisis, but this will not be the crisis they were looking for.

God save the Republic.

242 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:07:12am

re: #227 funky chicken

+1

Perhaps China would like to have Pakistan as a new territory? The Chinese could probably handle any insurrection no problem.

To be sure - but there would be at leastt wo countries which would not be amused - one is India, and the other Russia.
While India might look to us like a soft option - they actually did beat the Chinese in 1962.

And as for Putin ... nuff said ...

243 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:07:45am

re: #232 UberInfidel67

I personally aint to concerned with Pakistan. It's time to pick a side and stick with it. You can't be all things to all people. Harsh, but true.

exactly how I feel...if a threat becomes too great, sovereignty means little

244 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:07:47am

re: #234 Erik The Red

I think his bed must feel the same. 50 odd days in office and he is tired. Welcome to the real world asshole. You wanted it now stop crying.

Yes, time to lose the Underoos and piss with the grown ups. . .wait///

245 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:07:50am

re: #240 soxfan4life

When it comes to smoking peace pipe, 0 never passes that to Joe.

Joe's already a space cadet...

246 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:08:27am

re: #164 Josephine

Re. "And who exactly is a moderate Taliban?"

I attended a rally recently of Pashtun-Canadians against the Taliban.

Afterwards, I talked to a couple of men: the older one was from Afghanistan and the younger one might have been from Pakistan.

The younger one explained it this way. The Americans bomb the Taliban but they also accidentally bomb the homes of innocent civilians. The first time their relatives are killed, the villagers tell themselves it wasn't the Americans' fault. But the second time it happens, the villagers get mad at America and decide to join the Taliban to fight against the killer Americans.

I don't know if this is true or accurate; it's what he told me.

So perhaps when the experts talk about the "moderate Taliban", they are talking about the men who joined not out of religious imperative but because they were mad at the U.S. or the ones who found out they would get a much higher salary in the Taliban than in the police force.

Assuming that what you heard was accurate (and I have no reason to believe that it isn't accurate since many reports suggest that the locals regularly welcome in the strangers, including al Qaeda and the like because it's the custom and tradition to welcome in strangers in their lands), none of them see a problem with associating with the Taliban who are supporting the Islamists and al Qaeda who threaten more terror attacks and mayhem around the world and throughout the region? They'd much rather blame the US for defending itself by going after these terrorists before they carry out the attacks on the US.

247 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:08:31am
248 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:08:47am

re: #236 avanti

Screw them, send a team in, snag his ass, then apologize to Norway for intrusion and wish them a nice day.

Sure, if there was someone in the Oval Office who had the stones to do that. Do you think Obambi's got 'em? I don't. Plus, it would piss off Norway's neighbors who also have large populations of unassimilated muslim immigrants, and Norway wouldn't want to make their neighbors upset.

249 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:09:11am

re: #239 MandyManners

RACIST!

I know Norway would, not so sure about the Pakistani's, and would not care if they did object publicly, they'd be glad to be rid of him too.

250 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:09:33am

re: #194 Venezuela lover

It is pronounced "Pachy-Stan" according to our great leader. They will be glad to meet with Obama when Obama explains that he was a muslim and he spent a few weeks there 40 years ago.

In fact, Obama is just the type of westerner that the Taliban would like to torture and kill.

I'd rather have a Patchy-Stan, led by Patchy the Pirate.

251 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:09:35am

re: #243 albusteve

exactly how I feel...if a threat becomes too great, sovereignty means little

Weren't you listening the other day. We are not in the preemptive strike business anymore according to the Obama Administration. I kid you not. How are every bodies bomb shelters coming in the back yard?

252 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:09:36am
253 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:09:37am
254 UberInfidel67  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:10:21am

re: #243 albusteve
I really can't take these childish overtures anymore. I enjoy coming to this site to discuss things but it seems like the same thing every damn day. Death to America...Kill the Juice...Iran can hit Israel...Iran can't hit Israel. Someone needs to stand up and say ENOUGH! Keep your shit within your own borders or we will come and kick your ass! If your own population doesn't like it, tell them to pick a side and take up arms! Diplomacy has gotten a lot of good folks killed.

255 BigAl  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:10:23am

OT:
"Obama instructed Geithner to "pursue every legal avenue" to rescind $165 million in bonuses to AIG executives who were in part responsible for the company's near collapse."

Did anyone think that going to the government with your hat in hand looking for $$ wasn't going to have a downside?

Now, it appears, the GOP governors turning down stimulus millions know what they are doing.

The above may be the first reason, but also this stimulus is one time (so far). When the money is spent will the governors go back for more or will they fire the newly hired or cut the benefits?. The plot thickens. These bailouts were wrong-headed, as was the pork-laden bill.

256 JohnAdams  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:10:45am

re: #251 Nevergiveup

Weren't you listening the other day. We are not in the preemptive strike business anymore according to the Obama Administration. I kid you not. How are every bodies bomb shelters coming in the back yard?

I think England is under more immediate threat. There is a slimeball superhighway going back and forth from Pak to UK.

257 JPL17  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:10:50am

Pakistan going to hell? Time to go on Leno!

258 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:11:36am

re: #256 JohnAdams

I think England is under more immediate threat. There is a slimeball superhighway going back and forth from Pak to UK.

That screams to be closed!

259 lurking faith  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:12:12am

re: #184 avanti

He said "If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will" and I agree 100%.
I don't give a shit if Osama and his buddies were hiding in Norway, I'd feel the same way, sorry.

You don't make a public threat to invade an ally. At least, not unless you're (a) irretrievably stupid, or (b) want to completely discredit the current leadership of your ally if they keep working with you.

260 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:12:15am

re: #248 Leonidas Hoplite

Sure, if there was someone in the Oval Office who had the stones to do that. Do you think Obambi's got 'em? I don't. Plus, it would piss off Norway's neighbors who also have large populations of unassimilated muslim immigrants, and Norway wouldn't want to make their neighbors upset.

Norway was a tongue in cheek analogy, but do you oppose going after Osama where ever the ass hole is hiding ?

261 NukeAtomrod  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:12:27am

In light of this, we should just blame Bush, cut the military by 25%, and spend a few more trillion dollars on, well, uh... JUST SPEND IT ALREADY!

///

262 Last Mohican  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:12:40am

re: #189 Capitalist Tool

Might even be simpler than that...
The State Dept. could address a bunch of envelopes to the top 10 biggest big shots in each of the Gulf states and simply include 2 photographs- the first of a B-52 and the second of the Kaaba inside the Grand Mosque with a four- word missive- "STOP IT OR ELSE".

Well, I actually think that general idea would have been the right approach, but we needed to do it much sooner. In the wake of World War II, the United States should have approached the House of Saud, and given them two options. You can abandon Wahabism, embrace Western ideals like abolishing slavery and not beating one's wife into submission, and most importantly you need to stop trying to train every Muslim in the world to murder us. If you do that, we'll buy trillions of dollars' worth of oil from you and ensure that you and your descendants are obscenely rich and powerful for hundreds of years.

Alternatively, we will assume control of your country with military force, and take all of your oil and use it for our own purposes until such time as we can install a different government, maybe even in a democratic one, that does not insist on dedicating itself to our destruction. At which time Saudi Arabia will flourish as a wealthy, prosperous state while you and your hundreds of princes rot in secret prisons.

263 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:12:42am

We need a knife-fighter in the Oval Office, not a Chicago politician.

Yes, dearly beloved, there's a helluva difference. Chicago politicians don't operate in close proximity to violent death. They're merely highly adept schoolyard bullies.

Bambi is a pansy. Combat would terrify the shit out of him.

264 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:13:00am
265 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:13:16am

re: #254 UberInfidel67

I really can't take these childish overtures anymore. I enjoy coming to this site to discuss things but it seems like the same thing every damn day. Death to America...Kill the Juice...Iran can hit Israel...Iran can't hit Israel. Someone needs to stand up and say ENOUGH! Keep your shit within your own borders or we will come and kick your ass! If your own population doesn't like it, tell them to pick a side and take up arms! Diplomacy has gotten a lot of good folks killed.

talk it to death

266 Who Watches the Watchmen?  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:13:53am

re: #231 DisturbedEma

Sure it is called We're Fucked Vista

Four years late, trillions of dollars over budget, and nobody wants it.

267 gatorbait  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:13:57am

When did shit become "holy?" When O got elected?

THE CHICKENS ARE COMING HOME TO ROOST (on our heads), hence the term "shit head."

268 godfrey  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:14:21am

re: #263 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Obama is a lovah, not a fighta. He's the Michael Jackson of geopolitics.

269 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:14:27am

re: #263 pre-Boomer Marine brat

We need a knife-fighter in the Oval Office, not a Chicago politician.

Yes, dearly beloved, there's a helluva difference. Chicago politicians don't operate in close proximity to violent death. They're merely highly adept schoolyard bullies.

Bambi is a pansy. Combat would terrify the shit out of him.

He'd piss his G I Joe Underoos!


/S

270 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:15:11am
271 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:15:46am

re: #263 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Combat would terrify the shit out of him.

That's why he'd be just like this man...

272 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:16:07am

re: #260 avanti

Norway was a tongue in cheek analogy, but do you oppose going after Osama where ever the ass hole is hiding ?

Osama is no longer an outstanding issue...I dont think he is worth the time, energy and money it would take to hunt him down...there is no rationale behind a fixation on him...besides he's 99% dead

273 nyc redneck  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:16:24am

pakistan is a powder keg.
our enemies think o is a do nothing wimp.
we might be having economic problems w/ mccain.
but our enemies sure wouldn't be circling like this.
poking and prodding.
o is a disgrace and so are those who voted for him.

274 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:16:49am
275 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:17:19am

re: #251 Nevergiveup

Weren't you listening the other day. We are not in the preemptive strike business anymore according to the Obama Administration. I kid you not. How are every bodies bomb shelters coming in the back yard?

No one is suggesting invading Pakistani preemptively, just missile strike or a small special ops team in and out to kill or capture the bad guys.

276 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:17:31am

One White House aide emerged from an intelligence briefing on Pakistan three days after Mr Obama’s inauguration to exclaim: “Holy s—t!”

Ironic, that is exactly what I said when O got elected.

277 lurking faith  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:17:37am

re: #188 soxfan4life

Wasn't that a bad idea when it was John McCain's idea?

What? I thought McCain's "bad idea" on health benefits was to offer a 5K tax credit to people who don't get health benefits from their employers and have to purchase private health insurance.

278 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:17:42am

re: #273 nyc redneck

pakistan is a powder keg.
our enemies think o is a do nothing wimp.
we might be having economic problems w/ mccain.
but our enemies sure wouldn't be circling like this.
poking and prodding.
o is a disgrace and so are those who voted for him.

our enemies think o is a do nothing wimp. They don't think it, they frigging know it!

279 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:18:29am

re: #260 avanti

Norway was a tongue in cheek analogy, but do you oppose going after Osama where ever the ass hole is hiding ?

Nope. Obama does, though, and that was the point I was trying to get across.

280 realwest  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:18:54am

Don't know if this has been mentioned but it surely should be - while India is looking more and more like an ally of the US, CHINA has traditionally been an ally of Pakistan and has numerous treaties (some defense treaties) with Pakistan.Obama fucks around with "invading" or otherwise mudding up Pakistan, last weeks "incident" with the US naval ship and China's ships will be teeny 'taters compared to what will happen.

281 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:19:14am

re: #275 avanti

No one is suggesting invading Pakistani preemptively, just missile strike or a small special ops team in and out to kill or capture the bad guys.

Isn't that what a pre-emptive strike is?

282 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:20:28am

re: #226 DisturbedEma

Spot Spot, DAMN! OUT!- or were you not talking about the literal wag the dog moment that is soon to break. . .the arrival of the dog. . .at the White House- we can replace the Checkers speech with the "hey, all that gloom and doom stuff was just to get my budget passed- it's all good, and look a PUPPY!"

My Lady MacBeth crack was metaphorically aimed at the Cap-L Liberals' desire to undo the established order once they got into office. Okay, they've killed King Duncan. Now something's coming after them.

Believe me, Bambi won't have the balls to say, "Lay on, MacDuff, and be damn he who first cries ... 'Hold. Enough.' "

/IMHO, he'll have some degree of nervous breakdown

283 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:21:26am

re: #272 albusteve

Osama is no longer an outstanding issue...I dont think he is worth the time, energy and money it would take to hunt him down...there is no rationale behind a fixation on him...besides he's 99% dead

Bullshit, I want to kill the bastard if he's not dead, and don't care about the time and energy. Every time he releases another audio tape, it reminds me he is still vertical.

284 realwest  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:22:06am

re: #275 avanti
"small special ops team in and out to kill or capture the bad guys."
You manifestly have been watching too many Rambo movies. It only works - small special ops teams - on the RARE occasion that it does, when the special ops teams KNOW where the nuckes are. Right now, we don't know where they are, cause YOUR president said he'd invade Pakistan and the day after the election, Pakistan moved all of it's nukes and most of it's intermediate ballistic missles to hide out that we don't even know about.

285 lurking faith  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:22:13am

re: #212 Honorary Yooper

He's not ready for the 3am phone call, much less a noon phone call. Obama is not ready for prime time, and prime time is going to be knocking on his door. Rahm Emanuel said not to waste a crisis, but this will not be the crisis they were looking for.

This is not the crisis I thought I knew.
/?

286 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:24:37am

re: #284 realwest

"small special ops team in and out to kill or capture the bad guys."
You manifestly have been watching too many Rambo movies. It only works - small special ops teams - on the RARE occasion that it does, when the special ops teams KNOW where the nuckes are. Right now, we don't know where they are, cause YOUR president said he'd invade Pakistan and the day after the election, Pakistan moved all of it's nukes and most of it's intermediate ballistic missles to hide out that we don't even know about.

I hope India knows. They probably have better intelligence on Pakistan than we do, and with good reason.
And I hope they deal with the nukes, instead of telling the US where they are.

287 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:25:19am

re: #281 Leonidas Hoplite

Isn't that what a pre-emptive strike is?

No, a invasion is what we did in Iraq, a strike is rendition. Either he's rendering captured or better yet, rendered dead. I know it's not PC, but I'd have rather had the CIA render Sadam dead too.

288 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:26:05am

This is rich -

Amid fears that Pakistani militants have already entered the US to radicalise and recruit terrorist cells, US officials have been invited to visit the UK to observe the Home Office's anti-radicalisation programme.

I guess they mean "Come and see how NOT to do it."?

289 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:26:50am

re: #287 avanti

No, a invasion is what we did in Iraq, a strike is rendition. Either he's rendering captured or better yet, rendered dead. I know it's not PC, but I'd have rather had the CIA render Sadam dead too.

I'm all for it.

290 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:26:54am
291 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:27:39am
292 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:28:06am

re: #290 ploome hineni

McCain got a thrill up his leg from Nobama

McCain had his time...McCain would also have been a disaster

we needed an adult and a fighter

we need Romney

RUDY!

293 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:28:20am

re: #280 realwest

Don't know if this has been mentioned but it surely should be - while India is looking more and more like an ally of the US, CHINA has traditionally been an ally of Pakistan and has numerous treaties (some defense treaties) with Pakistan.Obama fucks around with "invading" or otherwise mudding up Pakistan, last weeks "incident" with the US naval ship and China's ships will be teeny 'taters compared to what will happen.

I don't think anybody in the White House, nor PB0, has any knowledge of this.

They ought to - but the have no grasp of these old alliances.
If India feels trheatened - what are the chances, with that wimp in the White House, of her turning back to her old comrade, Russia?
Putin would be very happy to help, I'm sure!

294 faraway  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:28:39am

We're Screwed 2.9 to be rebranded as Marxism 2.0

295 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:29:19am
296 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:30:19am
297 Annar  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:33:10am

Pakistan has been a failed state since its creation in 1947 and it's going to stay that way as long as they keep trying to mix Islam with the desire of many citizens to have a modern state. Unfortunately, the modernists are losing and if the Islamists ever get complete control one can expect a full scale India-Pakistan (perhaps nuclear) war.

298 joncelli  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:33:34am

re: #56 realwest

Well, I didn't say it was a REALISTIC solution, just MY solution. ;-)

299 lurking faith  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:34:40am

re: #260 avanti

Norway was a tongue in cheek analogy, but do you oppose going after Osama where ever the ass hole is hiding ?


You're completely failing to comment on the very important point that publicly announcing that we will invade an ally is stupid and really, really bad diplomacy.

You have to allow people to save face.

Candidate Obama's public invasion threat was, all by itself, sufficient evidence that he knows nothing about how diplomacy actually works.

300 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:34:59am

re: #277 lurking faith

What? I thought McCain's "bad idea" on health benefits was to offer a 5K tax credit to people who don't get health benefits from their employers and have to purchase private health insurance.

His plan involved taxing the money paid by your employer towards healthinsurance as income, and then giving you a tax credit to offset it. So if you kept your company plan it would be revenue neutral.

301 Spiritualized  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:35:04am
US officials have been invited to visit the UK to observe the Home Office's anti-radicalisation programme.

I have a copy of that "programme" right here:

a) Blame Israel.
b) Hope that 'a)' leads only to attacks on Jewish targets and not government facilities or the general population.

302 SteveC  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:35:37am

re: #34 Ojoe

Let the sun shine, Let the sun shine in
The sun shine in
Let the sun shine, Let the sun shine in
The sun shine in
Let the sun shine, Let the sun shine in
The sun shine in
Let the sun shine, Let the sun shine in
The sun shine in

And this one is dedicated to our old friend, President George W. Bush:

"Ain't no sunshine when he's gone..."

303 realwest  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:36:34am

re: #286 Kosh's Shadow
You and me both - and it's likely to be India that deals with it; Pakistan's intermediate ballistic missiles can reach every part of India, but not of the US. But the down and dirty card in this poker game is What Will China Do?

304 lurking faith  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:40:21am

re: #275 avanti

No one is suggesting invading Pakistani preemptively, just missile strike or a small special ops team in and out to kill or capture the bad guys.

That's a difference of degree, not kind.

Particularly if done in public, with the international press invited to attend.

305 Oh no...Sand People!  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:41:33am
One White House aide emerged from an intelligence briefing on Pakistan three days after Mr Obama’s inauguration to exclaim: “Holy s—t!”

Welcome to the club. A bit late...but welcome.

306 SteveC  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:41:54am

re: #303 realwest

You and me both - and it's likely to be India that deals with it; Pakistan's intermediate ballistic missiles can reach every part of India, but not of the US. But the down and dirty card in this poker game is What Will China Do?

China will freak - that's where the fallout is heading after mushrooms start blossoming in India. I'm worried that China may throw a few nukes of her own... and then the shit is really on the fan.

307 Josephine  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:42:23am

re: #246 lawhawk

I agree with your points.

Forget about logic: it's all down to feelings.

308 GOPManHatTanIte  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:43:26am

<

Obama seems to think walking softly means laying on our backs and exposing our soft white underbelly.

of course you mean our non-racial/gender specific underbelly

309 Josephine  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:46:33am

re: #264 ploome hineni

164 Josephine

what was their answer to the question?
their solution?

One of them thought "we" could work with the Taliban. That was about it.

I took some video of the speakers at the rally. At one point, the audience got upset with a speaker for only blaming the Taliban. They shouted that she should also blame the Pakistani government and the ISI. Someone to my right said quietly, "Blame Islam". I lowered my camera and looked around but I couldn't identify the source of the comment. Given where I was standing, and the person's Canadian accent, it most likely was not a Pashtun Muslim.

310 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:49:40am
311 lurking faith  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:49:42am

re: #300 soxfan4life

His plan involved taxing the money paid by your employer towards healthinsurance as income, and then giving you a tax credit to offset it. So if you kept your company plan it would be revenue neutral.

Right; yes. The main point I remembered was that it would have equalized the playing field for people who have to pay for their own health insurance, without injuring those who currently get insurance benefits.

And it would have allowed market forces to work, and increased the available choices for large numbers of people.

312 SummerSong  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:59:34am

Wrong war, eh?

313 bolivar  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:01:21am

re: #257 JPL17

Pakistan going to hell? Time to go on Leno!

And so he shall! Who will write his jokes? Somebody funny? How about one of his speechwriters? They are good at spinnin a yarn aren't they?

314 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:02:20am
315 jcbunga  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:03:45am

The evil doers smell blood in the water. Under W, it was their blood. Under The One, it's ours.

I guess they aren't impressed with how The One pronounces Pakistan "Paah-kee-staahn".

316 Timbre  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:13:32am

re: #33 ploome hineni

..this is all the result of the teachings of this supremist fascist death cult responsible the poverty, ignorance, chaos and brutal violence in the region and exported by the indoctrinated bots from the region

islam teaches that the supremacy of islam, and establishing sharia in the world, superceeds all other efforts

thinking education, prosperity and peace will trump jihad in islam, is a hallucination

This is the truth and foundation of the issue. Ploome has it exactly right.

317 Emerald  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:13:38am

re: #69 realwest

"They're in over their heads, and they won't admit they can't deal with it, nor ask for help in dealing with it."
FTFY!

Oh, he'll ask for help. There's Wright, Hugo, Clinton, Freeman...

In all seriousness, I wouldn't be surprised if privately his team isn't on the phone continually with old Bush appointees. Obama's ego is big, but I'd think he'd rather privately admit he needs help than publicly be seen as the worst president in history. And the latter is becoming more likely with every passing incident.

318 JHW  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:14:26am

I'll never forget what Benjamin Netanyahu wrote in the Wall Street Journal in the days immediately after 9/11 when he wrote that Israel and India would be crucial allies in the war he called the war for civilization, the war against Islamic terrorism. He wrote of the necessity to sink the enemy aircraft carriers (i.e. terrorist supporting states) and not just shooting down kamikazes (i.e. jihadis and the Bin Ladins of the world). I wish I could pull up the complete article but I'm having no luck.

However, here are a couple of articles by Bibi that make me wish we had someone like him as our president.
Extract

September 21, 2001 -- WHAT is at stake today is nothing less than the survival of civilization.

There may be some who would have thought a week ago that to talk in these apocalyptic terms about the battle against international terrorism was to engage in reckless exaggeration. No longer.

Each one of us today understands that we are all targets, that our cities are vulnerable, and that our values are hated with an unmatched fanaticism that seeks to destroy our societies and our way of life.

I am certain that I speak on behalf of my entire nation when I say: Today we are all Americans - in grief, as in defiance.

In grief, because my people have faced the agonizing horrors of terror for many decades, and we feel an instant kinship with both the victims of this tragedy and the great nation that mourns its fallen brothers and sisters.

In defiance, because just as my country continues to fight terrorism in our battle for survival, I know that America will not cower before this challenge.


Today We Are All Americans

I have come here to voice what I believe is an urgently needed reminder: That the war on terror can be won with clarity and courage or lost with confusion and vacillation.


Netanyahu Speech Before US Senate

Netanyahu on Fox, on Defeating Terrorism

319 Pupdawg  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:15:40am

re: #5 kynna

Children. Our country is in the hands of children. Holy shit, indeed.

Children of the community raised on the government organizer dole now in charge in on the job training mode does not and will not cut it! To think, the Obambi team are that befuddled, flabbergasted, afraid and utterly shocked is even more scary than the potential threat. The easily phased, dazed and confused administration from the top down. These clowns are complete amateurish morons!

I do seem to recall Obambi was talking attacking Pakistan or at least taking military actions with troop incursions into their territory during the campaign. I suppose he did not realize Pakistan was a sovereign nation with rights and all or something. Obambi is a total ass clown!

320 Gang of One  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:28:35am

re: #285 lurking faith

This is not the crisis I thought I knew.
/?

This is a crisis I knew had to come,
Destroying the balance I'd kept.
Doubting, unsettling and turning around,
Wondering what will come next.
Is this the role that you wanted to live?
I was foolish to ask for so much.
Without the protection and infancy's guard,
It all falls apart at first touch.

Watching the reel as it comes to a close,
Brutally taking it's time,
People who change for no reason at all,
It's happening all of the time.
Can I go on with this train of events?
Disturbing and purging my mind,
Back out of my duties, when all's said and done,
I know that I'll lose every time.

Moving along in our God given ways,
Safety is sat by the fire,
Sanctuary from these feverish smiles,
Left with a mark on the door,
Is this the gift that I wanted to give?
Forgive and forget's what they teach,
Or pass through the deserts and wastelands once more,
And watch as they drop by the beach.

This is the crisis I knew had to come,
Destroying the balance I'd kept,
Turning around to the next set of lives,
Wondering what will come next.
-- Joy Division

321 abolitionist  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:39:36am


U.S., NATO Supplies Attacked in Pakistan
Militants Attack Pakistani Depot for Supplies to U.S. Troops in Afghanistan

Up to 50 militants attacked a terminal for trucks carrying supplies to U.S. and NATO troops in Afghanistan early Monday, in the second such assault in northwest Pakistan in two days.
[snip]
322 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:46:28am

re: #321 abolitionist


U.S., NATO Supplies Attacked in Pakistan
Militants Attack Pakistani Depot for Supplies to U.S. Troops in Afghanistan

And Obama wants to send more soldiers into Afghanistan? He should hold off till we secure our supply lines.

323 2MurthasRight  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:52:54am

And NATO replied, "Help yourself, President O.B. The One, you're the only dope."

324 2MurthasRight  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:03:18pm

re: #323 2MurthasRight

So that you don't have to register there, the gist of it was in the title, Europe Hedges on Guantánamo Detainees, of the NY Times' article. Basically, the EU is demanding they get to see the intel on the jihadists we are trying to pawn off on them, as shown best by this passage:

Given that stance by the Obama administration, some European officials say Washington’s focus on sending the detainees to Europe raises many questions.

Germany’s interior minister, Wolfgang Schauble, has suggested publicly that if Guantánamo detainees pose no security risk, there is no reason the United States should not take them.

Buying those particular pigs in a poke, my literally blow up in their populaces' faces; that at least tends to make even European politicians nervous.

325 fatdaddy  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:04:43pm

re: #73 ploome hineni

during WW2 we also fough a racist fanatic ideology

and look what it took to defeat it

total war

we are not yet ready to prevail


With the economic situation as it is, we will be ready soon.

...just enlisted and will be in boot camp April 7th, age 41, father of 5. I am sure that I am not the only provider that is educated and has little to no prospects of meaningful employment for the next few years. With the need for health care coverage and food for the table the US Army has become my only viable option.

326 anotherindyfilmguy  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:14:39pm
One White House aide emerged from an intelligence briefing on Pakistan three days after Mr Obama’s inauguration to exclaim: “Holy s—t!”


One can only imagine what they'd say if we get nuked...

327 CharlieBravo  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:28:06pm

re: #27 lawhawk

"And who exactly is a moderate Taliban?"

From what I understand, those would be the guys who dilute the acid before throwing it in the faces of schoolgirls.

328 Cheese Eating Victory Monkey  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:31:11pm

Pakistan proves that self-determination and partitions are not always congruent with international security.

329 A.W.  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:40:24pm

I don't know. the whole thing smells. if it is that serious, we shouldn't be throwing money at the problem, we should go do something.

330 Code Red 21  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:42:25pm

I don't think BO and his minions give a shit if we get attacked or not. If we get attacked we all have to get behind the president. Yes, forget all of the bullshit going down with the economy the government take-over of businesses, we have more important things on the table now.

331 Zimriel  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:44:59pm

re: #320 Gang of One

This is the crisis I knew had to come,
Destroying the balance I'd kept,
Turning around to the next set of lives,
Wondering what will come next.
-- Joy Division

Curtis quotes always get an upding from me.

332 Zimriel  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:52:22pm

re: #247 Iron Fist

What is worse, before we went into Iraq i had arguements with several Leftists who wanted to bring back MAD to contain Iraq. As if MAD wasn't completely fucking insane in the first place. Yes, it was what was necessary for the time and place, but that was because we had let the Soviets grow into a real threat (the greatest threat anyone anywhere ever has faced) over the course of decades of failed diplomacy by both Republican and Deomcrat administrations.

If we had stopped the Stalinists before the Rosenbergs had given them the secrets on building atomic weapons, the whole history of the rest of the 20th Century would be different. Better, I would say.

Here's the problem: Woodrow Wilson, the bastard, DID try to stop the Bolsheviks when they took over Russia. He did it by supporting Denniken, Kolchak, and a bunch of other fascist creeps who, if they had won, would have set up a "Slavic Nazi" regime a decade before the real-world German one. Wilson even sent an army into that hellhole.

Invading Russia is just not a terribly good idea if you don't know what you're doing.

333 Zimriel  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:05:03pm

The report says that Pakistan is currently a coalition of Muslim subcontinentals who are united only in their desire to be free of infidel subcontinental rule. That is why they spend money on an anti-India army and do not spend money on an anti-Taliban counterinsurgency militia.

If Pakistan's elites were to agree to take cash on condition that they scrap their army and train their counterinsurgency, that would make Pakistan into a client state of America and India. I'm not saying that cannot be done; but it takes a lot of mind, money, and manpower to carry out effectively.

I am, personally, skeptical that our own culture, system of government, and elites can do this at this time.

334 ronsfi  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:27:44pm

Ermmm...yes we ummm...can?

335 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 2:02:41pm

re: #65 subsailor68

Let's see, China, Russia, Venezuela, Cuba, and now Pakistan. Good job so far boys.

By the way, it appears the Duchy of Fenwick is also pissed off at us. And you remember what happened last time, right?

Morons.

So if I see men with longbows and chain mail in the streets, I'll know that the State Department has really screwed up in Western Europe?

336 SanFranciscoZionist  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 2:22:58pm

re: #122 EmmmieG

According to my father-in-law, I main-line chocolate.

My mother always told me to get chocolate without nuts, because it's easier to melt it in the spoon.

337 HelloDare  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 2:25:55pm
One White House aide emerged from an intelligence briefing on Pakistan three days after Mr Obama’s inauguration to exclaim: “Holy s—t!”

Yeah, Holy shit. Obama is President. Biden is V.P. and Hillary Clinton is Secretary of State. They found a way to insult and muff gifts to Gordon Brown and the Russian Foreign Minister. How are they competent to handle this?

338 walahi  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 2:30:41pm

Pakistan, it's the new Afghanistan

The terrorists were stopped to a large extent in Afghanistan and the party simply shifted over the border to the Northwestern provinces. Ever since Pakistan's inception, the place has been a simmering hotbed of Islamic agitation and now outright hostility and terrorism. It pretty much started with General Zia ul Haq and his usurption of the government in the 1970s and hasn't stopped till today.

Pakistan, kinda like Afghanistan...just with nukes...

339 Colonel Panik  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 3:06:17pm

re: #171 pat

The Mexican military have their own locally produced 5.56mm automatic rifle. Goes by some Aztec name that means "fire snake". I'm not going to attempt to spell it or pronounce it. LOL. It's basically a licensed copy of the Heckler and Koch G-36. They've got a lot of older HK G-3's and FN-FAL's in the Federales arsenals as well.

And if the drug lords aren't satisfied with what they can get from corrupt police or military officers they can always order some Kalashnikovs from Comrade Hugo's new factory.

This line Holder and Wesley Clark are pushing is sheer bullsh** and someone needs to call them out on it in the national media.

340 Render  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 4:52:41pm

So what's the news here?

That Pakistan, an erstwhile member of the nuclear club - in theory, is an epic train wreck that's almost fifty percent under Taliban control?

Anybody that reads the The Long War Journal knows that.

That the Big Zero and his crack team of tax cheats, commie thugs, and rabid Jew haters didn't know how bad off Pakistan was and haven't a clue as to what to do?

Just slightly less then fifty percent of Americans knew that - before the election.

===

So Waffleman, what was that about a "surge" into Afghanistan and an "invasion" of Pakistan idea?

You big floppy eared douchebag, you better get your feces together and damn quick like, before we have 50,000+ US troops and their NATO allies living off the land in war blasted Afghanistan because we can't ship them food and water, much less fuel, arms, and ammo. To say nothing of an aerial evacuation from Afghanistan while under fire...

No wonder he wants a cigarette, he's fornicating up everything in sight.

SPIT
SLOBBER
DROOL,
R

341 Render  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 5:04:13pm

re: #275 avanti

We've been conducting missile strikes on an almost regular basis. The only recent pause in those strikes came right after the Big Zero was elected.

Educate yourself.

[Link: www.longwarjournal.org...]

[Link: www.longwarjournal.org...]

METAL
HEAVY,
R

342 Bsod  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 5:48:11pm

Jeez guys, chillax. Obama just needs to buy them a box set of DVD's and it'll all be sweet.

343 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 8:03:25pm

re: #25 Kosh's Shadow

I hope India is keeping track of Pakistan's nukes, and has plans to deal with them, because the 0 administration doesn't.

Kosh -

From you mouth to the ears of Ha-Shem. I shall say nothing further in this matter except that Pakistan, apart from NOT being my favorite nation, is POTENTIALLY, the MOST DANGEROUS NATION on the FACE of the EARTH.

-S-

344 Gearhead  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 8:46:36pm

Any resulting speech by Obama will begin "As I've always said,* George W. Bush was not fearmongering..."

*Obama codespeak for 'I have changed my mind, but I'm not about to admit that I was wrong."

345 Mr Spiffy  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:33:18pm

You all don't understand--the 0ne inherited this from the previous administration
/

346 Westward Ho  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:51:01pm

re: #194 Venezuela lover

It is pronounced "Pachy-Stan" according to our great leader. .

That is the correct way of pronouncing it

347 crosspatch  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 2:28:40am

"The Riedel review is recommending increased payments to Afghan tribal chiefs"

I think the "holy s--t" comment was probably due to the amount of increased payment they were asking for.

Basically they are blackmailing us. Pay us or we blow up your people.

Wonder how far Obama will buy into that.

348 Josephine  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 5:49:18am

re: #346 Westward Ho

That is the correct way of pronouncing it

I can't tell if you are joking. Either way, this is one of my pet peeves.

It reminds me of an SNL skit in which the actors pronounced the items on a Taco Bell menu with exaggerated accents and great pride.

If we in Canada or the U.S. have to suddenly start pronouncing Pakistan the "correct" way and saying MOOSE-lim! for Muslim, then we'd better start saying France with a French accent and, by the way, how to do you say China in Chinese? Do we now say Ih-RAWN for Iran? And how about pronouncing place names in Scotland with a Scottish accent?

/Rant over, LOL.

349 broemti  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:36:42am

Guys why all the Holy S*** sentiment. Just talk to them, be nice, no words like terrorist, or enemy combatant. Just give them a few hundred billion dollars, pass some sharia legislation, stay away from tall buildings, population centers, nuclear power plants, military bases, etc. We can all get along if we just give them what they want. After all this whole Islamic misunderstanding has all been our fault. Guys they have offered us clear choices! Join them -- serve under them or die. What a deal. As for me and mine, we have our gold, bullets and beans and we rather like Dick Cheney.


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 Frank says:

People make a lot of fuss about my kids having such supposedly 'strange names', but the fact is that no matter what first names I might have given them, it is the last name that is going to get them in trouble. -- From the Real Frank Zappa Book - Mr. Dad chapter