Obama Tries to Stop AIG Bonuses

President Obama has asked the Secretary of the Treasury to try to block AIG bonuses.

WASHINGTON — President Obama vowed to try to stop the faltering insurance giant American International Group from paying out hundreds of millions of dollars in bonuses to executives, as the administration scrambled to avert a populist backlash against banks and Wall Street that could complicate Mr. Obama’s economic recovery agenda.

“In the last six months, A.I.G. has received substantial sums from the U.S. Treasury,” Mr. Obama said. He added that he had asked Treasury Secretary Timothy F. Geithner “to use that leverage and pursue every single legal avenue to block these bonuses and make the American taxpayers whole.”

Jump to bottom

778 comments

1 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:30:04am

All this while Obama is wiping the egg from his face.

2 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:30:16am

How about blocking CONGRESSIONAL bonuses?!

3 Oingo Boingo  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:31:20am

There is no try. There is only do... or no do.

Miyagi, out.

4 Kragar  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:31:31am

re: #1 Honorary Yooper

All this while Obama is wiping the egg from his face.

Thats not egg, and Barry is gonna need some knee pads

5 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:31:42am

This is all PR. They probably can't do anything and they know it! I guess they are going under the "Maybe we can fool some of the People all the time " Theory.

6 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:32:02am

There was one sure way to stop those bonuses. Let AIG fail.

Too late.

7 Athens Runaway  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:32:07am

I wasn't aware that this was one of the powers given to the President in Article 2. Damn my public education...

8 Oingo Boingo  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:32:38am

If he doesn't stop these bonuses... we've not only seen the "end of the beginning... " but we've also seen "The beginning of the End."

9 Erik The Red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:33:07am

Great idea. Chase them all away. Then you and the congress critters can run AIG and keep all the money for your social realignment.

10 Gusbenz  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:33:11am

AIG shouldn't have gotten any federal money in the first place. Arugh! Lousy Democrats and certain Republicans.

11 Sifty  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:33:16am

how many different people's bitch can Obama be made into?

and who is getting the smokes?

12 CLLRusso  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:33:17am

Maybe just don't give them any more money?

13 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:33:38am

Capitalism isn't the problem. Big government is.

14 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:33:42am

Call them severance packages. Works for me.

15 ErnieG  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:34:04am

"...pursue every single legal avenue..." The legal fees to break those contracts, some of which are in other countries, might be more than the bonuses in question. I think that Obama knows this and he was weaseling.

16 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:34:09am

I will hold back the bonuses. . .dear leader cries. . .after I take care of the ocean water thing- wait, you know I have

The economy to ruin
The Middle class to fuck over
The Government to ruin


I'm swamped. . .

17 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:34:30am

Coumo has demanded a list of those who received bonuses (re: Rush) not those who gave them... gee I wounder if the list was compared to someones donor list what the percent of matches would be?

18 Cathypop  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:34:52am

re: #2 Sharmuta

How about blocking CONGRESSIONAL bonuses?!

AMEN!

19 MJ  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:35:16am

They need the retain the "talent', the same "talent" that got AIG here in the first place.

20 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:35:31am
21 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:35:47am

re: #5 Nevergiveup

This is all PR. They probably can't do anything and they know it! I guess they are going under the "Maybe we can fool some of the People all the time " Theory.

Meaningless righteous indignation.

22 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:35:51am

re: #4 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Thats not egg, and Barry is gonna need some knee pads

Lube is a facist tool, so none of that for you dear leader. . .enjoy taking it, the rest of us have been for awhile now. . .welcome to your new world order

23 debutaunt  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:35:54am

re: #18 Cathypop

AMEN!

Are Union Bosses on the table?

24 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:35:56am

The bailout bonuses that the feds have been handing out dwarf the AIG stuff.

25 eagleheart  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:35:58am

Has any one question AIG that with the financial problems before the bailout would they have paid the same amount of bonus to their higher uppy's or is the bailout money the salvation for their bonuses.

26 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:36:01am

re: #16 DisturbedEma

I will hold back the bonuses. . .dear leader cries. . .after I take care of the ocean water thing- wait, you know I have

The economy to ruin
The Middle class to fuck over
The Government to ruin
Last remnants of the Republic to sweep away

I'm swamped. . .

Added something for you

27 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:36:06am

re: #16 DisturbedEma

I will hold back the bonuses. . .dear leader cries. . .after I take care of the ocean water thing- wait, you know I have

The economy to ruin
The Middle class to fuck over
The Government to ruin


I'm swamped. . .

Do you know the six-fingered man?!

28 Ghost707  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:36:08am

Barney Frank is pissed because he did the same thing with Fannie/Freddie as AIG has done, but Barney is not getting a bonus to destroy his GSE's.
And we just go merrily on down the debt hole.

29 Sifty  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:36:08am

re: #18 Cathypop

and take away that hag Pelosi's plane.

30 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:36:32am

re: #7 Athens Runaway

I wasn't aware that this was one of the powers given to the President in Article 2. Damn my public education...

I agree with Bill Kristol's comments on the AIG bonuses:

"Can capitalism survive the behavior of some capitalists? It's always been an open question. But if capitalism is to survive, shouldn't the Republican party, the party that defends democratic capitalism, be particularly vehement in denouncing its excesses?".

31 Westward Ho  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:36:41am

He's right, this is a fucking unbeleivable motherfucking disgrace. How the fuck can you award bonuses when you have lost 90 billion bucks last year and are on the dole for 150 billion. Don't these people have a bloody quark of shame?

32 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:36:48am

he's not stopping anything ...

33 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:37:09am

re: #18 Cathypop

Not a single one of those assholes up on this Hill has said they'd take a pay cut- not even as a publicity stunt. They can ask us to go with out, but damned if they'd put their money where their mouth is. It's not even their money- it's ours!

34 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:37:13am

re: #20 buzzsawmonkey

Never try to take a bonus from a dog.

Never try and take a credit card from a wife.

35 Ward Cleaver  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:37:13am

re: #20 buzzsawmonkey

Never try to take a bonus from a dog.

"That dog'll bite yewwww!"

36 Kragar  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:37:23am

re: #27 scottishbuzzsaw

Do you know the six-fingered man?!

I hear there is a Spaniard looking for him

37 Yerachmiel  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:37:45am

Yeah, except it's another straw man playing out... It is, and Obama probably knows it, illegal to block these bonuses by the government, and would result in a class action lawsuit by the recipients against the Government. The bonuses, while unsavory, were COMPLETELY legal.

Obama's just playing that he's down with the working man... No meat - all bones...

38 JohnnyReb  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:37:49am

re: #31 Westward Ho

He's right, this is a fucking unbeleivable motherfucking disgrace. How the fuck can you award bonuses when you have lost 90 billion bucks last year and are on the dole for 150 billion. Don't these people have a bloody quark of shame?

Well they were on track to lose 190 billion so they deserve something for that.
////

39 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:38:03am

re: #36 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I hear there is a Spaniard looking for him

And the six-fingered man apparently killed his father.

40 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:38:06am

re: #36 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I hear there is a Spaniard looking for him

And he hates waiting...

41 WalterMitty  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:38:07am

Idiot. There's a whole system of laws that govern these matters, they're called Bankruptcy Laws and that's exactly how AIG, et al, should be forced to proceed.

42 debutaunt  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:38:12am

re: #30 avanti

I agree with Bill Kristol's comments on the AIG bonuses:

"Can capitalism survive the behavior of some capitalists? It's always been an open question. But if capitalism is to survive, shouldn't the Republican party, the party that defends democratic capitalism, be particularly vehement in denouncing its excesses?".

Is it OK to address the excesses of earmarks?

43 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:38:25am

re: #33 Sharmuta

Not a single one of those assholes up on this Hill has said they'd take a pay cut- not even as a publicity stunt. They can ask us to go with out, but damned if they'd put their money where their mouth is. It's not even their money- it's ours!

This is probably a stupid question but, Do they pay taxes?

44 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:38:33am

Let's see. AIG gives $165 million to executives as per their contracts.

That's bad.

It's bad PR, and demagoguery on the part of Congress and the Administration, including the lout Barney Frank who has the temerity to claim that there are incompetents still having jobs (ever look in a mirror Rep. Frank?), is just detestable.

Of course, out of the billions given to AIG, $25 billion went to foreign banks to prop up the credit lines. That's what the TARP bailout was supposed to do, but that money is now outside the US.

Funny how the media would rather focus on the $165 million.

45 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:38:42am
46 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:38:51am

Where is a savvy republican turning in his/her Congressional pay as show of solidarity with the American people?

47 Ojoe  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:39:01am

Hallelujah,
I'm a bum
Hallelujah, bum again
Hallelujah, give me a hand out
To revive me again.

(1930's)

48 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:39:07am

history is dead....liberalism murdered it

49 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:39:17am

re: #36 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I hear there is a Spaniard looking for him

Alright then, "My name is..."

50 Athens Runaway  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:39:29am

re: #43 Leonidas Hoplite

This is probably a stupid question but, Do they pay taxes?


Are they Obama Cabinet appointees?

51 Kragar  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:39:34am

re: #40 scottishbuzzsaw

And he hates waiting...

Well, in the meatime, he can deal with the man in black, but only left handed.

52 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:39:49am

re: #27 scottishbuzzsaw

Do you know the six-fingered man?!

Damn, cannot remember the exact quote- do you ask this/start all your conversations this way/with this question?

Answer tho, I remember

My father was slaughtered by a six fingered man. .

53 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:40:06am

Bambi doesn't give a rat's ass whether AIG pays bonuses or not.
Bambi's only concern is for his own political butt.

54 debutaunt  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:40:13am

re: #45 taxfreekiller

pure misdirection

keep your eyes on the shell's

Pork is moving about as he gets your eyes interested in this.

Three-card-monty.

55 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:40:16am

re: #36 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I hear there is a Spaniard looking for him

And he's pissed!

56 Slymon  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:40:20am

As much as I despise Obama, I do not disagree with this course of action. 'The best and brightest?' They're the idiots that drove the company into the ditch in the first place. A pox on them all. The concept of a bonus usually is considered when a.) a good to great job has been done b.) the company made enough money to pay it. They are beyond broke and deserved to go under. The fact that they have a health plan and a paycheck that doesn't bounce should be the biggest bonus they get. The sense of exceptionalism and entitlement on Wall Street is only surpassed by that of our beloved Congress.

57 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:40:23am

re: #31 Westward Ho

He's right, this is a fucking unbeleivable motherfucking disgrace. How the fuck can you award bonuses when you have lost 90 billion bucks last year and are on the dole for 150 billion. Don't these people have a bloody quark of shame?

We get Bonuses at work..The thing is.. we only get them when we make a profit..What kind of idiots give them out during a profit lost?
I don't understand

58 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:40:41am

re: #54 debutaunt

Three-card-monty.

Popular game in high school restrooms.

59 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:40:55am

re: #51 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Well, in the meatime, he can deal with the man in black, but only left handed.

Yeah, if he uses his right- over too quickly. . .wait////:)

60 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:41:14am
61 Westward Ho  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:41:15am

re: #13 Sharmuta

Big govt. did not award them the bonuses. Big govt. bailed them out because the inter linked credit default swaps would thermonuclearize the financial industry if AIG failed.

62 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:41:29am

re: #54 debutaunt

Three-card-monty.

Image: Stantis-ThreeCardObama-RGB.jpg

63 yesandno  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:41:36am

This is smoke and mirrors....

AIG had bailed out a number of European Banks....acting as a conduit to oversees banks. That is why it keeps needing more and more money. The money we gave them they have passed on.

Bonus money was contracted for and Obama will not be able to touch it never mind that that he is jumping up and down like he is traversing a cow pasture.

And then BARNEY says he will get to the bottom of all this....the pot calling the kettle. Barney should be fired.

64 Earick  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:42:01am

Nice thing about employment contracts. If it says I get 1% of gross at the end of the year, I get 1% of gross or I get to sue.

If it was my employment contract I wouldn't care what the dumb Pres said either. I would want my pay!
Just a full fledged capitalist pig! I am, I am!

65 eschew_obfuscation  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:42:05am

re: #31 Westward Ho

He's right, this is a fucking unbeleivable motherfucking disgrace. How the fuck can you award bonuses when you have lost 90 billion bucks last year and are on the dole for 150 billion. Don't these people have a bloody quark of shame?

I'm guessing it depends on who got bonuses and what the performance was in their areas of responsibility.

For example, if the commercial banking division was turning a nice profit and the investments division went south with its real estate investments, should the guys running commercial banking not be given the bonuses to which they're probably contractually entitled? And do we know that the investments division execs got bonuses?

I'm not about to say that something isn't fishy here, but I'll bet it's not as simple as the hype makes it sound.

66 debutaunt  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:42:12am

re: #62 Conservative in Liberal Hands

[Link: blog.al.com...]

Excellent!

67 Athens Runaway  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:42:12am

Democrat solution for capitalism: Nuke it from orbit. Only way to be sure.

68 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:42:41am

re: #42 debutaunt

Is it OK to address the excesses of earmarks?

Yes, and BHO did. He's suggested a lot of rules to limit them in new bills, but getting both sides to give up the pork is probably a bit hopeless. Some earmarks are good, it's part of congress's job to fund worthy projects for their constituents, but I'll bet they fight the rules to reduce the pork from the worthy.

69 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:43:10am

re: #66 debutaunt

Thank you. Can someone give me an up-ding?

70 Sifty  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:43:19am

AIG was invented by J. Edgar hoover to replace the CIA and FBI.

And the KFC.

/tonight on PMSNBC

71 Kragar  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:43:20am

re: #59 DisturbedEma

Yeah, if he uses his right- over too quickly. . .wait////:)

I'm expecting to see Bonetti's defense, given the rocky terrain

72 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:43:24am

re: #61 Westward Ho

Big govt. did not award them the bonuses. Big govt. bailed them out because the inter linked credit default swaps would thermonuclearize the financial industry if AIG failed.

Big government forced bad lending practices on banks.

73 realwest  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:43:29am

Why do I sense that Obama may just need to go to Chicago or Hawaii for some rest soon? Maybe after he fires Geithner and can't find a replacement? I mean hell, Geithner hasn't been able to staff Treasury, perhaps Obama will go to one of his retreats, to rest and think about his replacement for Geithner.

74 Westward Ho  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:43:31am

re: #44 lawhawk

This is about AIG not the congress.

75 debutaunt  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:43:38am

re: #68 avanti

Yes, and BHO did. He's suggested a lot of rules to limit them in new bills, but getting both sides to give up the pork is probably a bit hopeless. Some earmarks are good, it's part of congress's job to fund worthy projects for their constituents, but I'll bet they fight the rules to reduce the pork from the worthy.

hahahahahhahahahahahhahaahahahahahahhaaa - you kill me!

76 J.S.  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:43:43am

I've read that there are signed contractual agreements...and unless the Zero wants to become a "law unto himself" or make up laws as he goes along or believe he and the treasury dept is above the law, it's all pretty much a done deal...

77 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:43:58am

re: #68 avanti

Yes, and BHO did. He's suggested a lot of rules to limit them in new bills, but getting both sides to give up the pork is probably a bit hopeless. Some earmarks are good, it's part of congress's job to fund worthy projects for their constituents, but I'll bet they fight the rules to reduce the pork from the worthy.

He could have vetoed the bill till they took out the big bad earmarks he didn't like? But I guess that never occurred to him?

78 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:44:07am

Now the WH says that they may want AIG money back. Really?

Other banks are hopping over themselves to get out of the TARP plan because of all the strings attached.

States are looking to avoid the porkfest strings attached (to say nothing of the constitutional ramifications imposed by the law that abrogates state law should governors refuse to take the money).

What's the common theme - rejecting the federal government's approach because of the one-size fits all approach to fix a problem that doesn't actually exist. The economy goes through periodic recessions - boom and bust. It doesn't require trillion dollar fixes for recessions, and yet that is what the solution was this time (credit mess nothwithstanding).

The toxic paper mess was handled by throwing billions into the credit markets to unfreeze it - and to destigmatize the TARP plan, the feds forced solvent banks to take the money too. Now, the banks want out because they don't want to deal with that mess.

And I agree with them - get out of the government grip and things will improve dramatically.

79 kingkenrod  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:44:14am

This plays right into Obama's class warfare tactics. Make the rich pay. It's not an issue that free market supporters will be able to get on the right side of because of the herd mentality of most people who only casually follow the news.

AIG should have been forced into bankruptcy. Under court review, AIG could have continued to function while matters such as this could be handled by the courts. More importantly, all of the people who bought insurance could have had their default payouts reduced (I'm talking of the billions in taxpayer money going to European banks).

80 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:44:16am

re: #71 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I'm expecting to see Bonetti's defense, given the rocky terrain

Who are you?!

81 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:44:33am

re: #73 realwest

... Geithner hasn't been able to staff Treasury...

Mr. Real, maybe that's a good thing?

82 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:44:39am

re: #63 yesandno

I can think of only one thing Barney is good at getting to the bottom of, and believe me it isn't a pretty thought.

83 red satellite  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:44:50am
In the last six months, A.I.G. has received substantial sums...

Substantial? I'm thinking the word you need to use is: MASSIVE. Quit dressing up a whore.

84 Sifty  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:44:52am

re: #71 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

That's unless you have-a studied Heezogleepa. which I have.

85 Athens Runaway  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:45:02am

re: #70 Sifty

AIG was invented by J. Edgar hooverDick Cheney to replace the CIA and FBI.
And the KFC.
/tonight on PMSNBC

FTFY.

86 Kragar  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:45:25am

re: #80 scottishbuzzsaw

Who are you?!

No one of consequence

87 Sifty  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:45:42am

re: #83 red satellite

Unless it's a nice nurse uniform. I love the nurse uniforms.

88 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:45:51am

re: #86 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No one of consequence

I must know!

89 rightside  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:46:04am

re: #68 avanti

Yes, and BHO did. He's suggested a lot of rules to limit them in new bills, but getting both sides to give up the pork is probably a bit hopeless. Some earmarks are good, it's part of congress's job to fund worthy projects for their constituents, but I'll bet they fight the rules to reduce the pork from the worthy.

Wrong. It's up to the states to fund worthy projects for their constituents, not congress. It's quite obvious you enjoy paying for scallop research in Taxachusetts, but I do not.

90 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:46:10am

re: #86 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

No one of consequence


I must know

Get used to disappointment

Ok

Swordplay

91 ErnieG  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:46:20am

re: #65 eschew_obfuscation

Exactly. The same arguments have been used against seven-figure sports salaries. But if I bring, say, a hundred million dollars and lay it at your feet, I would expect something in return.

92 Chicago Blonde  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:46:24am

Sorry guys - I gotta go. :( i'll see you all tomorrow.

93 VioletTiger  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:46:30am

re: #44 lawhawk

Let's see. AIG gives $165 million to executives as per their contracts.

That's bad.

It's bad PR, and demagoguery on the part of Congress and the Administration, including the lout Barney Frank who has the temerity to claim that there are incompetents still having jobs (ever look in a mirror Rep. Frank?), is just detestable.

Of course, out of the billions given to AIG, $25 billion went to foreign banks to prop up the credit lines. That's what the TARP bailout was supposed to do, but that money is now outside the US.

Funny how the media would rather focus on the $165 million.

This is really just a distraction and a way to blame business and the free market, paving the way to more socialism. Much more of our money is going to bail out people who took more mortgages than they could afford and many others who were irresponsible. But to distract us from that, we get this big show on the bad capitalists taking our money. And sadly, most people will fall for it.

94 Kragar  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:46:42am

re: #88 scottishbuzzsaw

I must know!

Get used to disappointment

95 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:46:42am

re: #74 Westward Ho

This is about AIG not the congress.

It's about Congress and the Administration's response to AIG fulfilling its contractual obligations to its employees.

96 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:46:50am

re: #87 Sifty

Unless it's a nice nurse uniform. I love the nurse uniforms.

scrubs?....what country are you in?

97 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:47:16am

re: #73 realwest

You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles.

98 Annar  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:47:26am

To paraphrase P. T. Barnum: There are currently 306,020,499 gullible stockholders and a few rich bonus boys laughing. Do a Clinton and sic the IRS on them!

99 Erik The Red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:47:30am

re: #82 turn

I can think of only one thing Barney is good at getting to the bottom of, and believe me it isn't a pretty thought.

Brain Bleach. Thanks for my nightmares tonight.

100 realwest  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:47:31am

re: #44 lawhawk
Just another superb comment lawawk. Congress is focusing (as is, apparently the Preident of the United States) on $165 Million which are probably, legally, contractually owed to the employees, while the balance of the $84 BILLION + that Congress gave to AIG goes unremarked upon.

101 Earick  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:47:33am

re: #92 Chicago Blonde

Bye Blonde!

102 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:47:59am

re: #75 debutaunt

hahahahahhahahahahahhahaahahahahahahhaaa - you kill me!

You mean he was not joking about that? He was serious about that crap with dear leader?

Feeling ill. . .

103 FrogMarch  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:48:07am
and make the American taxpayers whole

huh? what does that mean? His rhetorical magic bag o tricks is sounding silly.

104 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:48:07am

No reaction from the market so I assume that means that nobody believes that Obama will actually take the money back or cancel the bonuses. I suspect this is just window dressing.

105 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:48:20am

re: #77 Nevergiveup

He could have vetoed the bill till they took out the big bad earmarks he didn't like? But I guess that never occurred to him?

He chickened out. he should have vetoed the bill even it shut down the government. He just wanted to let them have the pork, and be happy so he could get his agenda passed. I'd rather of seen him piss off Congress and do the right thing rather then kick the pork ball fight down the road.

106 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:48:34am

re: #76 J.S.

I've read that there are signed contractual agreements...and unless the Zero wants to become a "law unto himself" or make up laws as he goes along or believe he and the treasury dept is above the law, it's all pretty much a done deal...

Unless?

107 ErnieG  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:48:52am

re: #88 scottishbuzzsaw

I must gots to know!


Do you feel lucky?

108 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:48:53am

re: #99 Erik The Red

I actually paused to think about posting that believe it or not, it grossed me out.

109 scottishbuzzsaw  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:48:56am

re: #94 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Get used to disappointment

LOL! Thanks for that, Kragar...great film, and a much needed chuckle.

But lunchtime is over...have a great day, Lizard Clan!

110 joncelli  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:49:01am

re: #44 lawhawk

How much of this is covered by contract law? If Cuomo finds a way to charge them with something, will it affect contract law?

111 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:49:17am

re: #94 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya, now prepare to die...

112 Sifty  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:49:20am

re: #96 albusteve

i mean the Benny Hill type uniform. silly

113 Westward Ho  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:49:21am

re: #57 HoosierHoops

We get Bonuses at work..The thing is.. we only get them when we make a profit..What kind of idiots give them out during a profit lost?I don't understand

Wall street financial geniuses. I am so outraged.

114 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:49:22am

re: #93 VioletTiger

This is really just a distraction and a way to blame business and the free market, paving the way to more socialism. Much more of our money is going to bail out people who took more mortgages than they could afford and many others who were irresponsible. But to distract us from that, we get this big show on the bad capitalists taking our money. And sadly, most people will fall for it.

Sad but true- look how many were outraged by the trips to exotic places in the United States. . .and could not see the real stimulus to the economy for the shit coming out of dear leader's mouth. . .

115 yesandno  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:49:23am

re: #56 Slymon

As much as I despise Obama, I do not disagree with this course of action. 'The best and brightest?' They're the idiots that drove the company into the ditch in the first place. A pox on them all. The concept of a bonus usually is considered when a.) a good to great job has been done b.) the company made enough money to pay it. They are beyond broke and deserved to go under. The fact that they have a health plan and a paycheck that doesn't bounce should be the biggest bonus they get. The sense of exceptionalism and entitlement on Wall Street is only surpassed by that of our beloved Congress.

There were parts of AIG that were profitable....it is a large company. Those bonuses were contracted for individuals that met a criteria....good job performance.
Maybe the company needed to go under...but since it is still operating and honoring its contracts, those who produced should be paid. Do you know how many will be paid under that 165 million $? Is it one? Or is it 165,000? or is it 165 million getting a dollar a piece?

116 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:49:32am

re: #104 Killgore Trout

No reaction from the market so I assume that means that nobody believes that Obama will actually take the money back or cancel the bonuses. I suspect this is just window dressing.

he can't cancel a bonus...what the hell?....there are legal contracts for that money

117 Spider Mensch  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:49:48am

oblama is jsut playing games for his supporters to think he's actually standing up to "The Man" the rich evil capitalists! oooohhh scary bad men! his supporters are mindless idiots, and they'll believe it....for now, he's got alot more stupid shit to do before his glow wears off...unfortunate for us who see what is going on and are not fooled by his tricks.

118 Sifty  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:49:53am

re: #103 FrogMarch

whole fooods. see arugula

119 Tricky Dick  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:49:54am

These were from contracts previously signed but ad Rahm put it, "never waste a good crisis." Here's another chance for the socialists/communists to gash capitalism and big business.

120 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:50:17am

re: #112 Sifty

i mean the Benny Hill type uniform. silly

ooo-lala!...like that?

121 rightside  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:50:23am

re: #109 scottishbuzzsaw


Hi and bye scottish.

122 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:50:35am

re: #97 Conservative in Liberal Hands

To blave. . . .

123 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:50:54am

re: #111 Conservative in Liberal Hands

Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya, now prepare to die...

Hello. My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die.

There I correct that!

124 joncelli  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:51:14am

OT: Charles, the boxes with the greenish gradient for the avatars and information are very tasteful. Took me a while to notice.

125 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:51:15am

re: #105 avanti

He chickened out. he should have vetoed the bill even it shut down the government. He just wanted to let them have the pork, and be happy so he could get his agenda passed. I'd rather of seen him piss off Congress and do the right thing rather then kick the pork ball fight down the road.

I'd like to see him incapacitated with whooping cough

126 mad mullah  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:51:31am

Obama is just another liberal moron and the enormous amount of our money and our children's and grandchildren's money that he has been wasting away is nothing short of disgusting.

At the rate that he's going it probably won't be long until he turns the US into a third world country, which is perhaps exactly what those sorts of people want.

127 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:51:42am

re: #104 Killgore Trout

No reaction from the market so I assume that means that nobody believes that Obama will actually take the money back or cancel the bonuses. I suspect this is just window dressing.

I agree. Bambi's a politician, covering his butt. Other than protecting himself, he doesn't give a shit about those bonuses.

128 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:51:50am

re: #122 DisturbedEma

Sonny, true love is the greatest thing, in the world-except for a nice MLT - mutton, lettuce and tomato sandwich, where the mutton is nice and lean and the tomato is ripe! Gotta to go to lunch with clients. BBL

129 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:52:03am

re: #116 albusteve

he can't cancel a bonus...what the hell?....there are legal contracts for that money

Tax Prof does have a way to reclaim those bonuses - through the tax law.

130 Sifty  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:52:09am

stimulus the chocolate coating makes it go down easier. and wait before swimming.

131 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:52:12am

re: #116 albusteve

Yup, the only way they can legally cancel those contracts if some sort of Chaprter 11 or bankruptcy restructuring. The government does not have the power to negate private contracts (that I know of).

132 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:52:22am

I believe all those who posted o's using this issue as just another distraction, he can't do squat about it.

133 wrenchwench  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:52:25am

re: #124 joncelli

OT: Charles, the boxes with the greenish gradient for the avatars and information are very tasteful. Took me a while to notice.

And LGF Spy is looking lovely as well.

134 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:52:57am

re: #129 lawhawk

Tax Prof does have a way to reclaim those bonuses - through the tax law.

reclaim after the fact maybe but he cannot cancel them

135 Sifty  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:53:04am

re: #132 turn

yet

136 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:53:12am

re: #89 rightside

Wrong. It's up to the states to fund worthy projects for their constituents, not congress. It's quite obvious you enjoy paying for scallop research in Taxachusetts, but I do not.

States rely on federal money, the poorer red states get back two or more dollars back for their tax dollars. It's redistribution of wealth between the rich and poor states.


re: #89 rightside

Wrong. It's up to the states to fund worthy projects for their constituents, not congress. It's quite obvious you enjoy paying for scallop research in Taxachusetts, but I do not.

137 arielle  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:53:24am

re: #115 yesandno

that's right. I used to work in the financial services business and among other things sold AIG annuities. It's a commission based business and if those employees don't get the money that they are legally entitled to they are going to pay even more money in legal fees. Obama is just trying to divert attention away from the fact that he does not know what he is doing!

138 FrogMarch  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:53:56am

Make me whole again, baby Jesus!

Take away dem bonuses!

139 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:54:03am

So Barry looks like he's "for the common man" and we're still screwed (i.e., broke).

Ah well. SSDD.

140 Russkilitlover  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:54:15am

re: #30 avanti

I agree with Bill Kristol's comments on the AIG bonuses:

"Can capitalism survive the behavior of some capitalists? It's always been an open question. But if capitalism is to survive, shouldn't the Republican party, the party that defends democratic capitalism, be particularly vehement in denouncing its excesses?".

Capitalism can't survive with government bailouts, prop-ups, stimulous packages and sundry programs. Capitalism works when failures fail. There is an entire Bankruptcy infrastruture to ensure this.

The "behavior of some capitalists" is the direct result of government welfare.

141 faraway  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:54:18am

For those of you falling for Obama's class warfare, what will you say when he comes for your paycheck next?

142 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:54:36am

re: #129 lawhawk

Tax Prof does have a way to reclaim those bonuses - through the tax law.

That's interesting LH.

143 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:54:50am

re: #141 faraway

For those of you falling for Obama's class warfare, what will you say when he comes for your paycheck next?

I gave at the office.

144 Spider Mensch  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:55:06am

re: #126 mad mullah

Obama is just another liberal moron and the enormous amount of our money and our children's and grandchildren's money that he has been wasting away is nothing short of disgusting.

At the rate that he's going it probably won't be long until he turns the US into a third world country, which is perhaps exactly what those sorts of people want.

he wants you and I to live in his 3rd world utopia, him and his elitist supporters will continue to live in their own personal first world, and don't you even think of trying to join him and his ilk in their world. think of the omega frat brothers in animal house, us common people are not on his and his supporters level.

145 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:55:10am

19:41 EU threatens to boycott Durban II if used as platform to criticize Israel (AP)

I wish there was a picture, because I can't imagine anyone said that with a straight face?

146 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:55:13am

re: #141 faraway

For those of you falling for Obama's class warfare, what will you say when he comes for your paycheck next?

Maybe the 2nd amendment won't seem so bad then.

147 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:55:20am

re: #138 FrogMarch

Make me whole again, baby Jesus!

Take away dem bonuses!

Jeebus hates lightworkers, I tell you what.

/Some theoretical preacher that I will listen to if I hear the above

148 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:55:20am

re: #131 Killgore Trout

Yup, the only way they can legally cancel those contracts if some sort of Chaprter 11 or bankruptcy restructuring. The government does not have the power to negate private contracts (that I know of).

gosh what a novel idea....now the situation is so fucked up I doubt if that is even an option now...guys smarter than us would know...and how many people have earned those bonuses and deserve them?...some no doubt

149 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:55:32am

re: #134 albusteve

reclaim after the fact maybe but he cannot cancel them

"let me tell you how it will be, there's 1 for you, 19 for me..."

150 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:56:12am

Re-post from earlier...

I don't know what to think about these bank/tarp bonuses.

There are a lot of (not-guilty) people who work at these banks and the bonuses are part of their compensation packages. Not fat cat guys, but some schmo who makes 100K, but, his reward system can have him set up to make 50/150K in bonuses.

If the place isn't being shut down, the failure to pay the bonuses (based on the employees package) could bankrupt individual employees.

Someone smarter than me who can help me understand?

151 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:57:25am

re: #65 eschew_obfuscation

Been struggling with the same questions (#150)

152 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:57:30am

re: #131 Killgore Trout

Yup, the only way they can legally cancel those contracts if some sort of Chaprter 11 or bankruptcy restructuring. The government does not have the power to negate private contracts (that I know of).

This is playing out just the way the Obama administration wanted it too.

This is their first foray into grabbing government control of an American business, in ways we have never seen before.

Where as I don't support anything AIG has done based on the bailout, handout and free money, I don't see Obama's meddling as anything but a pre-planned move.

They are going to use ANY crisis, problem or misstep by any capitalist venture and a way to wedge their socialism into our day to day life.

They've just gotten started, hold on for a bumpy ride.

153 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:57:53am

re: #149 brookly red

"let me tell you how it will be, there's 1 for you, 19 for me..."

might be a #1 hit after 40 years

154 Russkilitlover  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:57:53am

re: #57 HoosierHoops

We get Bonuses at work..The thing is.. we only get them when we make a profit..What kind of idiots give them out during a profit lost?
I don't understand

I don't know any of the AIG specifics, but many sales positions are structured around a lower base pay with a bonus structure for sales performance. I think that's why they are saying that these employees are contractural obligated for the bonuses as part of their compensation package - Similar to a draw/commission structure. They are not company performance bonuses based on ROI.

155 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:57:59am

A little fun for this glum day...

A man and his wife were having some problems at home and were giving each other the silent treatment.

Suddenly, the man realized that the next day, he would need his wife to wake him at 5:00 AM for an early morning business flight.

Not wanting to be the first to break the silence (and LOSE), he wrote on a piece of paper,

'Please wake me at 5:00 AM .'He left it where he knew she would find it.

The next morning, the man woke up, only to discover it was 9:00 AM and he had missed his flight

Furious, he was about to go and see why his wife hadn't wakened him,
when he noticed a piece of paper by the bed.

The paper said, 'It is 5:00 AM. Wake up.'

Men are not equipped for these kinds of contests.

156 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:58:33am

re: #150 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Someone upthread said it best, they should consider the fact that they still have a job a bonus, they should have been canned for f#$%ing things up so bad.

157 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:58:51am

re: #150 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Re-post from earlier...

I don't know what to think about these bank/tarp bonuses.

There are a lot of (not-guilty) people who work at these banks and the bonuses are part of their compensation packages. Not fat cat guys, but some schmo who makes 100K, but, his reward system can have him set up to make 50/150K in bonuses.

If the place isn't being shut down, the failure to pay the bonuses (based on the employees package) could bankrupt individual employees.

Someone smarter than me who can help me understand?

I can't help you. I get a little bonus IF we make ENOUGH money. Not 50%-100% of base pay. And the company MOVES the targets UP if my bonus starts looking too lucrative.

I can't imagine a situation where a bonus can be earned while losing BILLIONS.

I mean, somebody made bad decisions, right?

Or is it all Booooosh's fault?

158 Russkilitlover  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:59:09am

re: #141 faraway

For those of you falling for Obama's class warfare, what will you say when he comes for your paycheck next?

Here, here! The Admin's righteous indignation is self-serving, at best.

159 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:59:17am

re: #153 albusteve

might be a #1 hit after 40 years

/numba 1 wit a bullet!

160 Pupdawg  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:59:20am

re: #2 Sharmuta

How about blocking CONGRESSIONAL bonuses?!

Right on!

This is at the root of why Government should stay out of private businesses. The private sector should swim or sink on it's own merit. Obviously, our government refuses to learn to swim.

Obama, America now and later the world's community organizer feverishly dog paddling towards socialism!

Government heal thyself!

161 rightside  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:59:34am

re: #136 avanti

I can't help but laugh at you anymore chief.

162 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:59:45am

re: #128 Conservative in Liberal Hands

Sonny, true love is the greatest thing, in the world-except for a nice MLT - mutton, lettuce and tomato sandwich, where the mutton is nice and lean and the tomato is ripe! Gotta to go to lunch with clients. BBL

Have fun storming white castle. . .

163 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:00:40am

re: #159 brookly red

/numba 1 wit a bullet!

That'll be $1 excise tax, please. And we will also ned to see your ID and registration papers.

164 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:00:58am

re: #155 afrocity

That's why I have an alarm clock! LOL
good seeing you Afro...Hope today finds you well

165 ilzito guacamolito  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:01:26am

re: #122 DisturbedEma

To blave. . . .

Have fun stormin' the castle!

166 kansas  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:01:35am

On a related note, Barney Frank says "We are rewarding incompetence."
Et Tu Barnwah.

167 SummerSong  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:01:40am

Let the lawsuits begin...

168 Westward Ho  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:01:57am

re: #72 Sharmuta

Big government forced bad lending practices on banks.

What does that have to do with AIG awarding bonuses after losing 90 billion dollars last year and the Govt. bailing them out?

169 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:01:58am

re: #161 rightside

I can't help but laugh at you anymore chief.

he's the LGF whoopie cushion

170 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:02:13am

re: #163 OldLineTexan

That'll be $1 excise tax, please. And we will also ned to see your ID and registration papers.

/we don't need no stinkin papers!

171 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:02:17am
172 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:02:30am

re: #166 kansas

On a related note, Barney Frank says "We are rewarding incompetence."
Et Tu Barnwah.

pot, meet kettle

173 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:02:32am

re: #166 kansas

On a related note, Barney Frank says "We are rewarding incompetence."
Et Tu Barnwah.

Damn, you made me snicker. Men are not supposed to snicker.

/stolen from FBV

174 jamgarr  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:02:36am

I repeat:

I am amazed at how many people fail to see the consequences of "doing something" about the nasty, old, big bonuses! If Congress had taken the time to think about bailouts instead of rushing head-long into them they could have placed specific, detailed restrictions and limitations on the bailoutees' use of the money. They didn't - and they are to blame for any "unacceptable" use of the money - no one else. IMHO anyone who thinks that "something should be done" should realize that they are advocating government change of rules by whim. If that becomes acceptable we are ex post fuckto'ed!

175 debutaunt  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:02:40am

re: #140 Russkilitlover

Capitalism can't survive with government bailouts, prop-ups, stimulous packages and sundry programs. Capitalism works when failures fail. There is an entire Bankruptcy infrastruture to ensure this.

The "behavior of some capitalists" is the direct result of government welfare.

Exactly!

176 Cathypop  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:02:41am

re: #166 kansas

On a related note, Barney Frank says "We are rewarding incompetence."
Et Tu Barnwah.


Every time Barney is re-elected they ar rewarding incompetence

177 Russkilitlover  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:02:51am

re: #156 turn

Someone upthread said it best, they should consider the fact that they still have a job a bonus, they should have been canned for f#$%ing things up so bad.

I'd rather know who the "executives" receiving this bonus are - are they company leaders? Or are they the sales force? I'm withholding my wrath for now.

178 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:02:53am

re: #123 Conservative in Liberal Hands

A friend of mine takes those silly, "Hello, my name is..." lapel stickers and writes in "Inigo Montoya, you killed my father; prepare to die" every time.

179 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:02:59am

re: #155 afrocity

Hey there. Been kind of in and out today. You just getting here?

180 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:03:03am

OT: Has anyone looked to see how Kozkrap and huff are reacting tot he news of Imus's cancer? I have to wait 48 hours before going back to give my stomach and BP a rest?

181 faraway  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:03:17am

re: #157 OldLineTexan

I can't imagine a situation where a bonus can be earned while losing BILLIONS.

I bring in $50 million in new business.

I get a $2 million bonus.

Would you like to get rid of me?

182 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:03:38am

re: #180 DisturbedEma

OT: Has anyone looked to see how Kozkrap and huff are reacting tot he news of Imus's cancer? I have to wait 48 hours before going back to give my stomach and BP a rest?

What are they saying?

183 Shane  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:03:39am

He should stay out of it. Since he knows so little about markets and how they work, what difference should it make to him? Why should we care? The money is not any better spent any where else with in the company. As far as I am concerned giving the money to these companies is no different than starting a huge bon fire with the cash. I suspect there would be little difference in out come if they did. So give them their bonuses, it's as good a use as any.

184 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:03:44am

re: #168 Westward Ho

What does that have to do with AIG awarding bonuses after losing 90 billion dollars last year and the Govt. bailing them out?

It helped pull the plug out of their phoney-baloney market business.

185 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:04:02am

re: #174 jamgarr

I repeat:

I am amazed at how many people fail to see the consequences of "doing something" about the nasty, old, big bonuses! If Congress had taken the time to think about bailouts instead of rushing head-long into them they could have placed specific, detailed restrictions and limitations on the bailoutees' use of the money. They didn't - and they are to blame for any "unacceptable" use of the money - no one else. IMHO anyone who thinks that "something should be done" should realize that they are advocating government change of rules by whim. If that becomes acceptable we are ex post fuckto'ed!

I hate the feds...bigtime

186 kansas  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:04:10am

re: #180 DisturbedEma

OT: Has anyone looked to see how Kozkrap and huff are reacting tot he news of Imus's cancer? I have to wait 48 hours before going back to give my stomach and BP a rest?

You might not be so disturbed if you would block those shit sites.

187 yesandno  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:04:34am

re: #155 afrocity

A little fun for this glum day...

A man and his wife were having some problems at home and were giving each other the silent treatment.

Suddenly, the man realized that the next day, he would need his wife to wake him at 5:00 AM for an early morning business flight.

Not wanting to be the first to break the silence (and LOSE), he wrote on a piece of paper,

'Please wake me at 5:00 AM .'He left it where he knew she would find it.

The next morning, the man woke up, only to discover it was 9:00 AM and he had missed his flight

Furious, he was about to go and see why his wife hadn't wakened him,
when he noticed a piece of paper by the bed.

The paper said, 'It is 5:00 AM. Wake up.'

Men are not equipped for these kinds of contests.

Truer words........ : )

188 Rancher  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:04:43am

This sucks. Now, because they took bailout money, Congress feels they can micro-manage these companies. Next they will be telling the banks who to lend money to, which, if you've been paying attention, is how we got into this mess.

189 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:04:44am

re: #177 Russkilitlover

I'd rather know who the "executives" receiving this bonus are - are they company leaders? Or are they the sales force? I'm withholding my wrath for now.

Let us know if you find out who they are going to, my guess is the fat cats who steered the ship into this mess.

190 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:04:45am

re: #166 kansas

On a related note, Barney Frank says "We are rewarding incompetence."
Et Tu Barnwah.

elections have consequences...

191 littleoldlady  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:04:56am

re: #181 faraway

I bring in $50 million in new business.

I get a $2 million bonus.

Would you like to get rid of me?

Nope. I would, however, like to marry you.

192 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:05:02am

re: #181 faraway

I bring in $50 million in new business.

I get a $2 million bonus.

Would you like to get rid of me?

yes...as your replacement!

193 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:05:11am

re: #179 Ford_Prefect

Hey there. Been kind of in and out today. You just getting here?

Yes, I am dragging today.

I have become numb to Obama. Nothing comes out of his mouth but platitudes and bullshit.

194 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:05:16am

re: #165 ilzito guacamolito

All "The Princess Bride" references that I see are automatically up-dinged. Unless someone posted something bad about it.

195 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:05:36am

re: #180 DisturbedEma

OT: Has anyone looked to see how Kozkrap and huff are reacting tot he news of Imus's cancer? I have to wait 48 hours before going back to give my stomach and BP a rest?

Oh my, sick SOB's there. I'll have to go check it out.

196 Westward Ho  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:05:41am

re: #115 yesandno

There were parts of AIG that were profitable....it is a large company. Those bonuses were contracted for individuals that met a criteria....good job performance.
Maybe the company needed to go under...but since it is still operating and honoring its contracts, those who produced should be paid. Do you know how many will be paid under that 165 million $? Is it one? Or is it 165,000? or is it 165 million getting a dollar a piece?

Do you seriously want to award bonuses to the company with the largest corporate loss in history? Oh and another small thing they have borrowed another 150 billion dollars to stay afloat? Are you serious?

197 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:06:20am

re: #191 littleoldlady

Nope. I would, however, like to marry you.

Little old lady! how are you doing?

198 Sharmuta  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:06:24am

re: #194 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

All "The Princess Bride" references that I see are automatically up-dinged. Unless someone posted something bad about it.

Inconceivable!

199 kansas  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:06:30am

re: #193 afrocity

Yes, I am dragging today.

I have become numb to Obama. Nothing comes out of his mouth but platitudes and bullshit.

Hey, that's not his fault. It's all on the teleprompter./

200 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:06:33am

re: #188 Rancher

This sucks. Now, because they took bailout money, Congress feels they can micro-manage these companies. Next they will be telling the banks who to lend money to, which, if you've been paying attention, is how we got into this mess.

I totally agree. Or Congress will give bonuses only to the people that give contributions to their favorite politicians.

201 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:06:41am

re: #181 faraway

I bring in $50 million in new business.

I get a $2 million bonus.

Would you like to get rid of me?

Is the business failing? Do I need to make up for some losses? Who lost money? Can I fire him? What about his contract?

I can play this game.

202 VioletTiger  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:07:26am

re: #174 jamgarr

You are right. There were no strings attached. As I understand it, the bonuses are part of the salary contract with the people who received them. If their portion of the business did well, they are entitled under that contract. One or more of the effing geniuses in congress should have thought about these scenarios back then. Now it is too late.

203 CapeCoddah  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:07:35am

Hey everyone,
This entire administration is just surreal. These people are just crazy and stupid.

204 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:07:37am

re: #194 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

All "The Princess Bride" references that I see are automatically up-dinged. Unless someone posted something bad about it.


Wouldn't think of it. . .:)

205 Erik The Red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:07:38am

re: #188 Rancher

This sucks. Now, because they took bailout money, Congress feels they can micro-manage these companies. Next they will be telling the banks who to lend money to, which, if you've been paying attention, is how we got into this mess.

100 up dings. You said what I wanted to in many fewer words.

206 steve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:07:45am

re: #2 Sharmuta

How about blocking CONGRESSIONAL bonuses?!

Congressional pay raises also?

207 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:07:50am

I wish Imus the best. He has always been the picture of health; he and Keith Richards always look ready to run a marathon.

208 Sifty  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:07:55am

re: #195 turn

That's kinda why I hope Starbuck's goes under. So lots of Kostards are made homeless.

209 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:08:17am

re: #198 Sharmuta

Inconceivable!

You keep using that word, I do not think it means what you think it means. . .

210 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:08:18am

re: #129 lawhawk

Interesting.

211 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:08:19am

re: #191 littleoldlady

Nope. I would, however, like to marry you.

LOL. Hey there LOL, I noticed a week or two ago your son registered here. What was his nic and has he posted much?

212 faraway  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:08:22am

re: #196 Westward Ho

Do you seriously want to award bonuses to the company with the largest corporate loss in history? Oh and another small thing they have borrowed another 150 billion dollars to stay afloat? Are you serious?

So, you advocate having Obama approve your paycheck? And mine?

You OK with Socialism?

213 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:08:27am

re: #181 faraway

I bring in $50 million in new business.

I get a $2 million bonus.

Would you like to get rid of me?

No, no... but perhaps a little uhhh insurance would be errrr, prudent?

214 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:08:29am
215 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:08:31am

re: #198 Sharmuta

Yep! Just like that.

216 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:08:41am

re: #193 afrocity

Yes, I am dragging today.

I have become numb to Obama. Nothing comes out of his mouth but platitudes and bullshit.

Hmmm. Is it possible that Avanti actually is... Naw!

217 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:08:56am

re: #208 Sifty

That's kinda why I hope Starbuck's goes under. So lots of Kostards are made homeless.

It could happen- their coffee is drek now. . .at a higher cost too

218 joncelli  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:08:57am

re: #188 Rancher

Maybe it's just a wedge for nationalization. Take the money, screw up, Feds step in and seize the company, now it belongs to The People.

/Mondays make me paranoid.

219 steve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:09:04am

re: #194 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

All "The Princess Bride" references that I see are automatically up-dinged. Unless someone posted something bad about it.

"As you wish."

220 Ghost707  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:09:06am

Obama knows exactly what he is doing.
Playing class warfare to the hilt.
AIG and other businesses contributed to his campaign for favors.
Barney Frank drove Fannie and Freddie into the ground - not a mention of them in the news.
Meanwhile Obama spends us into oblivion.
Smoke and mirrors.

221 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:09:08am

re: #194 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

All "The Princess Bride" references that I see are automatically up-dinged. Unless someone posted something bad about it.

Parts of "The Princess Bride" were rather limp.

/ ... go on, I dare ya' ... :D

222 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:09:11am

re: #181 faraway

I bring in $50 million in new business.

I get a $2 million bonus.

Would you like to get rid of me?

Addendum:

Do I owe your bosses a taxpayer bailout?

Will you get any bonus if your company fails?

Can you enforce your piddly contract in bankruptcy court?

How many years do you have to wait if you are #1,745,678 in line?

223 snowcrash  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:09:16am

re: #180 DisturbedEma
Huffpo comments look pretty civil and sympathetic to news of his prostate cancer.

224 Tamron  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:09:18am

How does the Bailout relate to you?

A good friend recently shared his practical view on the Bail-out programs:

Let's assume that you and your wife have several kids. Each time another 'bailout' is enacted, a friendly banker comes along and issues each member of your family ANOTHER brand-new credit card, on top of the ones that you already have. Each separate card has a credit limit of, say, $50,000, so on paper it looks like your family has a LOT of good credit.

There's a small catch, however. The friendly banker notifies you, after the fact, that he and his knowledgeable banker and Wall Street buddies kinda sorta broke the rules and overspent their means, so now each one of your new credit cards has been maxed out to the limit, with the proceeds going towards helping these good folks conduct business (huge executive bonuses, etc.) as usual. Consequently, none of you can actually USE any of your shiny new credit cards.

--It's OK, though, because to make it easier on you, the banks won't expect you to start making your minimum monthly payments on the cards until sometime next year. No problem. (And the fine print says that when any family member dies off, his card-debt is to be equally distributed amongst the remaining members of his family. There's no amnesty on these debts.)

IN EFFECT, LAST SEPTEMBER HENRY PAULSON AND HIS GANG STARTED THE PROCESS OF ISSUING EACH MEMBER OF YOUR FAMILY A BRAND-NEW MAXED-OUT CREDIT CARD, AGAINST YOUR WISHES. THIS PROCESS HAS REPEATED ITSELF SEVERAL TIMES OVER SINCE LAST SEPTEMBER. THE CURRENT ADMINISTRATION HAS RECENTLY LEARNED HOW TO ISSUE EVEN MORE NEW CARDS, RAISE ALL OF OUR CREDIT LIMITS, AND THEN SIPHON OFF THE DIFFERENCE. --Leaving us to pick up the tab.

Have you seen this recent story about the $16./hour school janitor job that recently came open in Ohio? There were 700 people who applied for that one job, and some of those 700 people really have it rough.

There are numerous tent-cities currently popping up across the country, but you can be sure that NONE of the recipients of the Bail-out generosity will ever have to worry about a roof over their heads or where their next meal is coming from.

Henry Paulson supposedly has a net worth of $700 Million. Why doesn't Henry Paulson give $1 Million apiece out of his own pocket to each of the above job applicants and bail THEM out, instead of forcing the average Joe the Plumber and Rosie the Secretary to pay for his buddies' mansions, yachts and limo's? C'mon, Henry, put your money where your mouth is. Follow old JD Rockefeller's example, and give a few dimes to the kiddies. You can afford it…

Folks, we have all been taken to the cleaners beyond our wildest dreams, yet we won't get slapped with the full strength of that reality until the details have been well covered-up by these slick criminals.

As a parting shot, have you heard this RECORDING OF AN OBAMA FAN WHO SAYS OBAMA'S GONNA MAKE HER RICH...
.

225 Emerald  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:09:25am

Good luck with that. They gave them the money with no strings attached; it's a little late now to realize that was gross stupidity.

226 faraway  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:09:31am

re: #201 OldLineTexan

Is the business failing? Do I need to make up for some losses? Who lost money? Can I fire him? What about his contract?

I can play this game.

You and Obama both. Neither of you know anything about AIG's business.

Do you want Obama to approve your pay?

227 littleoldlady  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:09:37am

re: #197 HoosierHoops

Nope. I would, however, like to marry you.

Little old lady! how are you doing?

Hoosier! :-)

Shhhh! I'm working a deal here.

;-)

228 FrogMarch  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:09:37am

Obama is going to hit the late night talk show circuit to help him with re-gain ground with the brain dead American public.

Hollywood is still Obama's most effective cheerleader.

229 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:09:39am

re: #174 jamgarr

ex post fuckto'ed!

LOL. My Jesuit graduate education prepared me for a lot of things, but I cannot for the life of me remember that phrase from Latin class.

230 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:09:52am

re: #213 brookly red

No, no... but perhaps a little uhhh insurance would be errrr, prudent?

wouldn't be prudent. . .would it. . .

231 yesandno  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:10:01am

re: #188 Rancher

This sucks. Now, because they took bailout money, Congress feels they can micro-manage these companies. Next they will be telling the banks who to lend money to, which, if you've been paying attention, is how we got into this mess.

And then they say "capitalism doesn't work" when we have never really had capitalism in a very long time.

232 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:10:18am

re: #219 steve

"As you wish."

farmboy, that was a good post

233 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:10:18am

re: #198 Sharmuta

Inconceivable!


No, not really. I saw the movie and there wasn't a thing good about it. It had a collection of some of the best actors and characters in the movie business, yet I felt no connections between these characters. It was like every actor in the movie was trying to be a "star" of a scene, when this was a grand opportunity for a great ensemble effort.

234 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:10:19am

re: #221 pre-Boomer Marine brat

That is true, actually. After Wesley had the pill from Miracle Max for a while he couldn't stand up. Was very limp.

235 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:10:23am

re: #214 buzzsawmonkey

Flounder: the official fish of the Obama Administration.

Crow: The official food of the Obama Administration.

236 faraway  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:10:52am

re: #214 buzzsawmonkey

Flounder: the official fish of the Obama Administration.

That will scale.

237 Kragar  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:10:56am

re: #178 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

A friend of mine takes those silly, "Hello, my name is..." lapel stickers and writes in "Inigo Montoya, you killed my father; prepare to die" every time.

I've got a shirt with that design imprinted on it

238 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:10:58am

re: #230 DisturbedEma

;)

239 VioletTiger  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:10:59am

re: #228 FrogMarch

Obama is going to hit the late night talk show circuit to help him with re-gain ground with the brain dead American public.

Hollywood is still Obama's most effective cheerleader.

I won't be tuning in.

240 Shane  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:11:11am

Why is anyone shocked? Why would anyone care that they got bonuses? Why, if they are the ones that ran it into the ground, are we surprised even slightly that after giving them more money they didn't spend it where we thought they should? How is it we keep the same bafoons in charge after they run a company into the ground? This is just fine. Hell, give them a mid year bonus as well as far as I'm concerned. All the money they recieve will not fix the company. It will not buy them values or morals or ethics. It will not by them better business sense. It will not make them better people or AIG a better company. If we give them money, whether they burn it or buy Ferrari's, who cares. We are the stupid ones.

241 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:11:19am

re: #194 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

All "The Princess Bride" references that I see are automatically up-dinged. Unless someone posted something bad about it.

I love the Princess Bride. Here is a quiz.

Name the visual error in the first scene?
What poster is behind Fred Savage's Bed?
What is Buttercup doing when she asks Westley to fetch the pitcher?
Before the original betrothal announcement, what circus performer is in the square?
Name all the fencing styles mentioned in the duel between Westley and Inigo.
Name the last three actors and their characters shown in the visual credit sequence.
Name all characters which have mullets.

242 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:11:32am

re: #206 steve

Congressional pay raises also?

how about we just block Congress?

/cutting to the chase

243 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:11:38am

re: #233 Walter L. Newton

No, not really. I saw the movie and there wasn't a thing good about it. It had a collection of some of the best actors and characters in the movie business, yet I felt no connections between these characters. It was like every actor in the movie was trying to be a "star" of a scene, when this was a grand opportunity for a great ensemble effort.


WLN- he likes to fuss
And meake me want to say alas

good thing he means no harm
and can be flush with certain charm. . .

244 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:11:39am

Madonna may adopt another child from Malawi

[Link: www.reuters.com...]

She's collecting kids like I collect....Well actually I don't collect, but you get the point?

245 jamgarr  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:11:42am

re: #229 Creeping Eruption

LOL. My Jesuit graduate education prepared me for a lot of things, but I cannot for the life of me remember that phrase from Latin class.

Expect it to be in Webster's before 2012.

246 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:11:51am

re: #208 Sifty

That's kinda why I hope Starbuck's goes under. So lots of Kostards are made homeless.

Ha, I chatted with a counter guy at McDonald's the other day about their coffee. It's killing Starbucks because it costs so much less and from what I've heard people think it is actually better.

247 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:11:58am
248 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:12:02am

re: #181 faraway

I bring in $50 million in new business.

I get a $2 million bonus.

Would you like to get rid of me?

Nope, but lose billions, take billions in my tax money to save your ass, and you get jack shit in bonuses. If I loan my friend 20K to save his home, and he buys a new car with MY money, I'd have the same issue. Once you except a handout, I expect you to save your company, not pad your millions.

249 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:12:08am

re: #235 Ford_Prefect

Crow: The official food of the Obama Administration.

Waffle-it's what's for breakfast, lunch and supper

250 solergic  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:12:34am

This is just more evidence that these bail outs are idiotic. First, strong companies are having their weaker competitors propped up by the government, and are being punished for running a sound business for the last decade. Next, companies that took the money are now at the mercy of the US government that, at this time, does not believe in the free market. This is going to get a lot worse.

251 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:12:35am

re: #214 buzzsawmonkey

Flounder: the official fish of the Obama Administration.

Sooo true!

252 VioletTiger  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:12:41am

re: #244 Nevergiveup

Madonna may adopt another child from Malawi

[Link: www.reuters.com...]

She's collecting kids like I collect....Well actually I don't collect, but you get the point?


She's not getting enough attention. It's just another publicity stunt.

253 kansas  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:12:56am

New spokesman for Obama.
Image: flounder_animal_house_1c.jpg

254 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:13:02am

re: #233 Walter L. Newton

Obviously you need a trip to the Fire Swamp and meet a few ROUSes.

255 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:13:11am

re: #234 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That is true, actually. After Wesley had the pill from Miracle Max for a while he couldn't stand up. Was very limp.

Heh ... that's precisely why I dared you (*grin*) to down-ding it!

/bear-trap

256 JohnnyReb  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:13:12am

re: #225 Emerald

Good luck with that. They gave them the money with no strings attached; it's a little late now to realize that was gross stupidity.

That was because it was an emergency and if we don't sign this right now and give them money the country will fail and we will all die a horrible death.

////did I get that part right?

257 jamgarr  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:13:30am

re: #234 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That is true, actually. After Wesley had the pill from Miracle Max for a while he couldn't stand up. Was very limp.


Because he was only mostly dead.

258 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:13:32am
259 Kragar  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:13:39am

re: #235 Ford_Prefect

Crow: The official food of the Obama Administration.

They're eating sarcastic gold robots! THOSE BASTARDS!

260 faraway  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:13:39am

re: #244 Nevergiveup

Madonna may adopt another child from Malawi

[Link: www.reuters.com...]

She's collecting kids like I collect....Well actually I don't collect, but you get the point?

Newsflash: Obama announces Madonna must return 2 of her children

261 littleoldlady  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:14:15am

re: #211 turn

LOL. Hey there LOL, I noticed a week or two ago your son registered here. What was his nic and has he posted much?

turn! :-)

Daughter! ("My son", who is in reality my cousin's son whom I borrowed while he was in school here in Philadelphia, is a raging "progressive". I was very happy to give him back to his parents during the last election...)

She's jewpublican. ;-) And I think has posted exactly twice, ended up in the top 10 comments with her first post, just by saying "hi".

/life is not fair ;-)

She just finished midterms and will hopefully be back here soon.

262 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:14:16am

re: #254 Honorary Yooper

Obviously you need a trip to the Fire Swamp and meet a few ROUSes.

Eat my grue.

263 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:14:33am

re: #228 FrogMarch

Obama is going to hit the late night talk show circuit to help him with re-gain ground with the brain dead American public.

Hollywood is still Obama's most effective cheerleader.

Hey I got tired of the White House and wanted to get away. . .shit is this an administration or a farking Southwest 'need to get away" spot?

264 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:14:45am

re: #241 afrocity

Holy crap. I know none of what you speak.

Some fan I am.

265 BigAl  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:15:06am

From an earlier thread:

Did anyone think that going to the government with your hat in hand looking for $$ wasn't going to have a downside?

Now, it appears, the GOP governors turning down stimulus millions know what they are doing.

The above may be the first reason, but also this stimulus is one time (so far). When the money is spent will the governors go back for more or will they fire the newly hired or cut the benefits?. The plot thickens. These bailouts were wrong-headed, as was the pork-laden bill.
25

266 opnion  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:15:15am

Help me out, Isn't the government looting the Treasury with the expressed purpose of creating jobs & promoting credit?
AIG producer bonuses are one thing, but you know that there are Exec bonuses in there.
How about banks lending our money to Dubai & China? That does not create jobs here.
Why isn't the Community Reinvestment Act denounced by the Obama Administration?
Oh, and why aren't Barney Frank s & Dodd in jail.

267 Randall Gross  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:15:20am

Ridiculous, but it's good to know that the left is just as lost in the moil with gestures vs. substance as we are right now.

What about all the billions paid out to Euro banks by AIG, and who the heck created the policy allowing these type of bonuses? Why not go after that guy if you want to address the problem rather than the symptom?

268 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:15:24am

re: #207 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I wish Imus the best. He has always been the picture of health; he and Keith Richards always look ready to run a marathon.

I don't wish people Ill...( except for terrorists )
I never liked Imus anyway..but after what he said about the Rutgers Basketball team...I'm just plain disgusted with him...
Imus you suk you POS...Sorry you have Cancer..but you still suk.

269 JohnnyReb  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:15:28am

re: #246 turn

Ha, I chatted with a counter guy at McDonald's the other day about their coffee. It's killing Starbucks because it costs so much less and from what I've heard people think it is actually better.

It is better. And way cheaper. That is the only coffee that I will go out and buy anymore.

270 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:15:34am

re: #198 Sharmuta

Inconceivable!

I love anything with Cary Elwes in it.

271 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:15:40am

re: #235 Ford_Prefect

Bull: The official mascot of the Obama Administration.

272 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:15:59am

re: #254 Honorary Yooper

Obviously you need a trip to the Fire Swamp and meet a few ROUSes.

I don't believe they exist- outside of Washington. . .

273 faraway  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:15:59am

re: #248 avanti

Nope, but lose billions, take billions in my tax money to save your ass, and you get jack shit in bonuses. If I loan my friend 20K to save his home, and he buys a new car with MY money, I'd have the same issue. Once you except a handout, I expect you to save your company, not pad your millions.

You must be 12 years old.

If your friend's wife made $100,000 in salary and your friend spent $120,000 gambling, you would want him to divorce his wife because they lost money that year.

274 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:16:08am

re: #226 faraway

You and Obama both. Neither of you know anything about AIG's business.

Do you want Obama to approve your pay?

Oh, I'm Obama now.

Isn't there a Godwin's corollary for that?

You're right. All I know is they were failing, and the Powers That Be "saved" them.

Find anything I posted where I advocated governmental control.

Back to my questions.

275 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:16:11am

re: #155 afrocity


Men are not equipped for these kinds of contests.

HA! I knew it was a game. Now I have proof!

276 Kragar  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:16:24am

re: #270 afrocity

I love anything with Cary Elwes in it.

I've come for my chafing dish.

277 solergic  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:16:33am

re: #240 Shane

AIG has contracts with people obligating it to pay for performance. Not everyone at AIG screwed up, and this is still a free market for talent. If AIG wants to recover and keep its people, it needs to reward its talent. It's none of your, mine, or the governments business what they do with money anyhow. This is what happens when the government gets involved, we are reduced to populism- and Obama LOVES populism.
Let's just stay out of it and let AIG succeed or fail on its own.

278 Diamond Bullet  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:16:36am

Optically it looks bad when a company on life support gives "bonus" money, but newspapers rarely actually look into what that "bonus" money is actually doing and who is receiving it. The problem is that like any big company, some of these banks have separate divisions wholly unrelated to the subprime/derivatives disaster, and which may have done well. Their profits vanish in the vast sea of red flooding in from the incompetent divisions, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve a reward. While you can ask people to forego earned bonuses for the "sake of the company" in this market you'd have to be an idiot to give up any money you're owed and I can't imagine employees doing that. And if there's a contract involved, it'll be hard for the government to intercede without triggering lawsuits -- which in turn may ultimately cost us all more than the bonuses themselves. Whatever the situation, I'm sure Obama will blunder into it like a bull in a china shop, placing conditions on the funds such that banks either refuse to accept them, or tangle up the government in years of private litigation.

279 Westward Ho  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:17:04am

re: #174 jamgarr

I repeat:
...
. They didn't - and they are to blame for any "unacceptable" use of the money - no one else. !


O i see that the Govt. is to blame not the criminally greedy executives who apportioned the bail out money.
Do you consider it unacceptable to link bonuses to profitability? If you are talking about some part of the company being profitable therefore bonuses should have been paid - the WHOLE company would have sunk under the weight of its losses had the GOVT NOT BAILED THEM OUT.

280 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:17:09am

re: #235 Ford_Prefect

Crow: The official food of the Obama Administration.

Teeheehee!

281 opnion  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:17:15am

re: #188 Rancher

This sucks. Now, because they took bailout money, Congress feels they can micro-manage these companies. Next they will be telling the banks who to lend money to, which, if you've been paying attention, is how we got into this mess.

That is what got us here. The govenment shows no sign of backing away from it's diasterous CRA policy.

282 HelloDare  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:17:16am

re: #44 lawhawk

Let's see. AIG gives $165 million to executives as per their contracts.

That's bad.

It's bad PR, and demagoguery on the part of Congress and the Administration, including the lout Barney Frank who has the temerity to claim that there are incompetents still having jobs (ever look in a mirror Rep. Frank?), is just detestable.

He looks in a mirror all the time. Here's why it does no good.

283 VioletTiger  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:17:28am

re: #266 opnion

Help me out, Isn't the government looting the Treasury with the expressed purpose of creating jobs & promoting credit?
AIG producer bonuses are one thing, but you know that there are Exec bonuses in there.
How about banks lending our money to Dubai & China? That does not create jobs here.
Why isn't the Community Reinvestment Act denounced by the Obama Administration?
Oh, and why aren't Barney Frank s & Dodd in jail.

Your questions are far too logical to be answered by the current administration. Try again in 2012./

284 yesandno  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:17:32am

re: #228 FrogMarch

Obama is going to hit the late night talk show circuit to help him with re-gain ground with the brain dead American public.

Hollywood is still Obama's most effective cheerleader.

This is outrageous. Damn, he is the President. I don't think he should be above it all, but Late Night talkshows are not the proper venue for the Leader of the Free World to promote anything but celebrity.

Sorry folks, I am old school.

285 Emerald  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:17:34am

re: #256 JohnnyReb

That was because it was an emergency and if we don't sign this right now and give them money the country will fail and we will all die a horrible death.

////did I get that part right?

Yes, because blindly throwing money at a problem with no controls in place, no understanding of the underlying issues, and no real plan for recovery is never, ever a bad idea!

286 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:17:43am

re: #220 Ghost707

Obama knows exactly what he is doing.
Playing class warfare to the hilt.

Yep, he knows there are a lot more middle class and poor voters then rich folk. Most folks struggling to make do, don't feel sorry for the CEO's loosing their million dollar bonuses, or even that those making over 250K that will lose their GW tax cuts. It's a political slam dunk if he can paint the GOP as the party of old, rich, white guys, true, or not.

287 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:17:48am

re: #268 HoosierHoops

I "buzzsaw"ed Randy Travis' "Diggin' Up Bones" to "Nappy Headed Hos". Did it at a Karaoke bar, was a smashing success.

288 Erik The Red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:17:49am

re: #248 avanti

Nope, but lose billions, take billions in my tax money to save your ass, and you get jack shit in bonuses. If I loan my friend 20K to save his home, and he buys a new car with MY money, I'd have the same issue. Once you except a handout, I expect you to save your company, not pad your millions.

What did/do their employment contracts say? If I borrow from my bank to enlarge/save/maintain my business they have no right to tell me how to spend that loan. If they have taken the risk to loan it to me.

289 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:18:05am

re: #276 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I've come for my chafing dish.

and the fondue set. . .

290 MarineMomSue  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:18:31am

re: #199 kansas

Hey, that's not his fault. It's all on the teleprompter./

I think the contents of the RED BINDER have been uploaded to O's teleprompter.

291 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:18:33am

re: #260 faraway

Newsflash: Obama announces Madonna must return 2 of her children

Did she get the kids from Obama's hands?

292 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:18:37am

re: #271 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Bull: The official mascot of the Obama Administration.

Image: ABL100-TS.jpg

293 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:18:41am

re: #261 littleoldlady

Silly turn, oh I remember that now. She made the top 10 just for being your daughter, and rightfully so.

294 ErnieG  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:18:45am

re: #208 Sifty

That's kinda why I hope Starbuck's goes under. So lots of Kostards are made homeless.

I appreciate your point about the Kostards, but I hope my SBUX goes up a little so I can sell it.

They sent out a coupon for a free "tall" coffee with the annual report. When I got my coffee, I remarked that it had cost me over $900. The barista said, "Oh. I'll make it a grande, then."

295 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:18:52am

Egypt concerned about future Israeli govt

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

Isn't that precious? And when was Egypt's last Election. Hum let me rephrase that: I mean when was Egypt's FIRST real election?

296 steve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:18:56am

re: #232 DisturbedEma

farmboy, that was a good post

I would write something from the old hag that booed Princess Buttercup but I cannot thing of it .... something about the queen of refuse with some boos and hisses thrown in.

It is one of my favorite movies though.

297 jamgarr  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:19:01am

re: #279 Westward Ho

O i see that the Govt. is to blame not the criminally greedy executives who apportioned the bail out money.
Do you consider it unacceptable to link bonuses to profitability? If you are talking about some part of the company being profitable therefore bonuses should have been paid - the WHOLE company would have sunk under the weight of its losses had the GOVT NOT BAILED THEM OUT.


I'm glad you agree.

298 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:19:05am

re: #284 yesandno

This is outrageous. Damn, he is the President. I don't think he should be above it all, but Late Night talkshows are not the proper venue for the Leader of the Free World to promote anything but celebrity.

Sorry folks, I am old school.

no need to apologize for having a sense of propriety. . .yet//

299 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:19:11am

re: #266 opnion

Help me out, Isn't the government looting the Treasury with the expressed purpose of creating jobs & promoting credit?
AIG producer bonuses are one thing, but you know that there are Exec bonuses in there.
How about banks lending our money to Dubai & China? That does not create jobs here.
Why isn't the Community Reinvestment Act denounced by the Obama Administration?
Oh, and why aren't Barney Frank s & Dodd in jail.

cause you ain't angry enough...

300 HelloDare  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:19:25am

re: #214 buzzsawmonkey

Flounder: the official fish of the Obama Administration.

Waffle Fish.

301 Westward Ho  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:19:42am

re: #212 faraway

So, you advocate having Obama approve your paycheck? And mine?

You OK with Socialism?

If you are on the dole like AIG is you should take a serious haircut, we are not talking about healthy companies.

302 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:19:43am

re: #270 afrocity

I love anything with Cary Elwes in it.

Please do not make me do research. Please? What are the answers?

303 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:19:58am

re: #277 solergic

AIG has contracts with people obligating it to pay for performance. Not everyone at AIG screwed up, and this is still a free market for talent. If AIG wants to recover and keep its people, it needs to reward its talent. It's none of your, mine, or the governments business what they do with money anyhow. This is what happens when the government gets involved, we are reduced to populism- and Obama LOVES populism.
Let's just stay out of it and let AIG succeed or fail on its own.


Too late

304 kansas  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:19:59am

re: #278 Diamond Bullet

Optically it looks bad when a company on life support gives "bonus" money, but newspapers rarely actually look into what that "bonus" money is actually doing and who is receiving it. The problem is that like any big company, some of these banks have separate divisions wholly unrelated to the subprime/derivatives disaster, and which may have done well. Their profits vanish in the vast sea of red flooding in from the incompetent divisions, but that doesn't mean they don't deserve a reward. While you can ask people to forego earned bonuses for the "sake of the company" in this market you'd have to be an idiot to give up any money you're owed and I can't imagine employees doing that. And if there's a contract involved, it'll be hard for the government to intercede without triggering lawsuits -- which in turn may ultimately cost us all more than the bonuses themselves. Whatever the situation, I'm sure Obama will blunder into it like a bull in a china shop, placing conditions on the funds such that banks either refuse to accept them, or tangle up the government in years of private litigation.

The teleprompter already weaseled with "legal" means. In other words, we gave them the money, they spent it. End of story. Catch me on Leno later this week. Be sure to tip your waitress.

305 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:20:00am

re: #292 Dustyvet

[Link: www.cartoonresource.com...]

*grin* ... I wish that could be applied to Obama!

306 opnion  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:20:16am

re: #277 solergic

AIG has contracts with people obligating it to pay for performance. Not everyone at AIG screwed up, and this is still a free market for talent. If AIG wants to recover and keep its people, it needs to reward its talent. It's none of your, mine, or the governments business what they do with money anyhow. This is what happens when the government gets involved, we are reduced to populism- and Obama LOVES populism.
Let's just stay out of it and let AIG succeed or fail on its own.

They took the cash with both hands. If they wanted the government out of their affairs, they should have turned down the money.
What did they expect?

307 ilzito guacamolito  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:20:37am

re: #293 turn

Silly turn, oh I remember that now. She made the top 10 just for being your daughter, and rightfully so.

Ha, as I suspected! It's not what you know, but who you know!
/

308 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:20:45am

re: #198 Sharmuta

Inconceivable!


I doona think that word means wha you think it means.

309 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:20:52am

re: #296 steve

I would write something from the old hag that booed Princess Buttercup but I cannot thing of it .... something about the queen of refuse with some boos and hisses thrown in.

It is one of my favorite movies though.


Bow down to the queen of slime the queen of filth, the queen of putercence

True love saved her is the fireswamp and she treated it like garbage. . .
boo boo BOOO

310 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:20:58am

re: #269 JohnnyReb

It is better. And way cheaper. That is the only coffee that I will go out and buy anymore.

I quit drinking coffee a few years ago but I was actually tempted to buy one and try it. I think I will next time, what is your favorite?

311 opnion  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:21:07am

re: #283 VioletTiger

Your questions are far too logical to be answered by the current administration. Try again in 2012./

Ok, I"ll put it on my calendar.

312 zombie  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:21:16am

Obama is trying to combine populism and socialism.

Problem is, the two paths are often at odds. It has been tried before in other countries -- most notably Cuba and Venezuela -- but in the United States, populist sentiment is often completely at odds with Socialist giveaway programs. This is probably one of the few countries in the world where populist sentiment is conservative sentiment.

Obama is navigating a ridiculous economic high-wire, on one hand with bailouts and giveaways and earmarks and pork, and on the other hand trying to look stern and outraged when people are caught with their hands in the cookie jar -- a cookie jar which Obama himself just offered them.

The money will soon run out for his impossible schemes, and in the end the fiscal conservatives will have the last laugh.

313 kansas  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:21:30am

re: #214 buzzsawmonkey

Flounder: the official fish of the Obama Administration.

Image: flounder_animal_house_1c.jpg

314 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:21:47am

re: #305 pre-Boomer Marine brat

*grin* ... I wish that could be applied to Obama!

Same here...:)


Image: cartoon+bull+market.gif

315 SteveC  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:21:56am

Sorry: Official board game of the Obama Administration.

316 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:22:07am

re: #306 opnion

They took the cash with both hands. If they wanted the government out of their affairs, they should have turned down the money.
What did they expect?

Apparently, The Spanish Inquisition.

Which was an unusual mindset, I admit.

/

317 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:22:26am

re: #258 buzzsawmonkey

A plaice for everything, I always say.

True - am not carping about that ...

318 ilzito guacamolito  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:22:28am

re: #315 SteveC

Sorry: Official board game of the Obama Administration.

Here I thought it was Risk.

319 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:22:32am
320 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:22:34am

re: #312 zombie


AND- the OTHER Elites, the anti ayers, will see the Orwellian pig and doggie show for what it is. . .G-d willing. . .

321 JohnnyReb  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:22:52am

re: #310 turn

I quit drinking coffee a few years ago but I was actually tempted to buy one and try it. I think I will next time, what is your favorite?

Sadly I can only have decaf now. The wife has tried all of them and does not have a clear favorite. She says they are all good.

322 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:22:59am

re: #277 solergic

That makes sense, you've changed my mind especially if most of it was intended for "joe employee". I know Rush would be saying the same thing too.

323 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:23:01am

re: #315 SteveC

Sorry: Official board game of the Obama Administration.

Um, Scatagories- the official end game of the dear leader

324 solergic  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:23:08am

re: #303 OldLineTexan

I know...it should have been left to die. I really believe that this bail out was very bad for the long term. We should have taken the pain now. We should have let companies compete on merit, not on how much money they can soak the tax payer for. Bailouts let weak businesses survive, decreasing the output of our economy as a whole.

325 opnion  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:23:25am

re: #299 brookly red

cause you ain't angry enough...

Gettin there. It all seems like a bad joke.
If you heard Bernake on 60 Minutes last night all you could think was WTF?

326 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:23:31am

re: #302 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Please do not make me do research. Please? What are the answers?

It's not worth it, the movie wasn't that good.

327 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:23:33am

re: #318 ilzito guacamolito

Here I thought it was Risk.

No, Risk has strategery ... you can play Sorry! on pure faith.

328 rightside  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:23:35am

I'll do you one better. If elected to congress, your investments are frozen until you are out of office period.

329 ilzito guacamolito  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:23:35am

re: #315 SteveC

Sorry: Official board game of the Obama Administration.

Or was it Monopoly?

330 Dave the.....  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:23:40am

If the head of a bailed out company gets HUGE bonus', then I can see the criticism. But if it's performance based on mid-level employees, that is different. Then it should be considered part of their regular pay.

Same with reward top performing sales staff with a trip.

331 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:23:44am

re: #318 ilzito guacamolito

Here I thought it was Risk.

Pray it is not global thermonuclear war

332 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:23:57am

OT: On the upside, Goodwill stores are seeing a resurgence in popularity, and reopening previously closed stores in cities near me. Maybe I should apply.

333 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:24:00am

re: #302 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Please do not make me do research. Please? What are the answers?

(Maniacal laughter) IN ME POWER

334 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:24:19am

re: #316 OldLineTexan

Apparently, The Spanish Inquisition.

Which was an unusual mindset, I admit.

/

335 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:24:25am

re: #284 yesandno

This is outrageous. Damn, he is the President. I don't think he should be above it all, but Late Night talkshows are not the proper venue for the Leader of the Free World to promote anything but celebrity.

Sorry folks, I am old school.

Yes you are, BHO, is changing the game plan for getting the voters to back his agenda, like it or not, he'll use the bully pulpit to the max. Where FDR had fireside chats, BHO will do the talk shows, radio addresses, the net and the rest. Heck, Palin went on SNL for the publicity, it's a new world.

336 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:24:35am

re: #278 Diamond Bullet

Same comment, that makes sense to me. Thanks.

337 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:24:40am

re: #331 DisturbedEma

Pray it is not global thermonuclear war

shall.we.play.a.game?

/

338 AuntAcid  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:24:42am

re: #285 Emerald

Yes, because blindly throwing money at a problem with no controls in place, no understanding of the underlying issues, and no real plan for recovery is never, ever a bad idea!

duh....that's government SOP, like forever...

339 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:25:08am

re: #337 OldLineTexan

shall.we.play.a.game?

/

how about a game of chess?

340 JohnnyReb  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:25:18am

re: #332 Slumbering Behemoth

OT: On the upside, Goodwill stores are seeing a resurgence in popularity, and reopening previously closed stores in cities near me. Maybe I should apply.

I also read that they are having to advertise to get donations. Something they have never had to do.

341 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:25:19am

re: #228 FrogMarch

Obama is going to hit the late night talk show circuit to help him with re-gain ground with the brain dead American public.

Hollywood is still Obama's most effective cheerleader.

The president is flying out Wednesday to Los Angeles where he is expected to join up with Leno, though it's unclear whether his appearance will be live or pre-taped.

But, what about his regular Wednesday soiree?

342 faraway  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:25:29am

re: #301 Westward Ho

If you are on the dole like AIG is you should take a serious haircut, we are not talking about healthy companies.

Hey Ho, who gives the haircut? The guvment? If so, that's Socialism. If you're OK with that, then just say so. Don't be afraid.

343 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:25:29am

Communist Manifesto: The official book of the Obama Administration.

344 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:25:38am

re: #326 Walter L. Newton

It's not worth it, the movie wasn't that good.

Speaking of movies..I just watched Copying Beethoven.
Ed Harris should have won an Oscar for his role as Beethoven..
I give it 5 out 5 stars..
The Hoopster has spoken!

345 Ben Hur  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:25:40am

Well, He did succeed in preventing banks that received TARP money from renewing H-1 visas.

So my highly educated Israeli friend who actually just got a promotion at a big NY bank CAN'T work because the bank can't sponsor H-1 visas anymore.

So I guess they'll have to find someone from Arkansas to run that particular foreign investment desk.

346 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:25:58am

re: #284 yesandno

This is outrageous. Damn, he is the President. I don't think he should be above it all, but Late Night talkshows are not the proper venue for the Leader of the Free World to promote anything but celebrity.

Sorry folks, I am old school.

Give that man a break - he's campaigning, after all!

///////

347 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:26:00am

re: #339 DisturbedEma

how about a game of chess?

file.not.found.

initiating.global.thermonuclear.war

/

348 steve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:26:05am

Oh great, I can see Obambam using this line......

You rush a miracle man, you get rotten miracles.

349 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:26:12am

re: #341 MandyManners

But, what about his regular Wednesday soiree?


sheesh is there no END to the problems dear leader has to solve?
bring the effin cookies to put under the chairs. . .

350 faraway  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:26:20am

re: #328 rightside

If elected to congress, your investments ethics are frozen until you are out of office period.

351 SteveC  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:26:24am

re: #331 DisturbedEma

Pray it is not global thermonuclear war

Neither I nor Dr. Falkin want to play that game!

352 Bloodnok  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:26:31am

re: #46 Sharmuta

Where is a savvy republican turning in his/her Congressional pay as show of solidarity with the American people?

Yes. This is what has been driving me crazy for the past few months. There is a huge soap box there for the taking if someone with courage on the Republican side would just step up.

353 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:26:42am

re: #342 faraway

Hey Ho, who gives the haircut? The guvment? If so, that's Socialism. If you're OK with that, then just say so. Don't be afraid.

I insists they fall on their swords ala bushido.

354 ilzito guacamolito  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:27:07am

re: #327 OldLineTexan

No, Risk has strategery ... you can play Sorry! on pure faith.

...and a roll of the dice...

355 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:27:08am

re: #333 afrocity

(Maniacal laughter) IN ME POWER

sigh,

356 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:27:29am

re: #307 ilzito guacamolito

Ha, as I suspected! It's not what you know, but who you know!
/

I encouraged my youngest, turnspawn2, to register. He quickly found out about Karma and liked it. I joked with him and called him a karma whore. Ha!

357 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:27:46am

re: #301 Westward Ho

If you are on the dole like AIG is you should take a serious haircut, we are not talking about healthy companies.

Even the $75/hour guy that puts on hub caps for GM will have his paycheck looked at before the government bails them out. he might choose to do the job for less rather then head to Home Depot for a job if GM fails.

358 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:27:47am

re: #343 Ford_Prefect

Communist Manifesto: The official book of the Obama Administration.

Don't forget Das Kapital!

359 faraway  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:27:56am

re: #343 Ford_Prefect

Communist Manifesto: The official book of the Obama Administration.

Prairie Fire: alternate book

360 Ben Hur  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:28:06am

Oh-bama, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz.........

361 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:28:08am

re: #335 avanti

Yes you are, BHO, is changing the game plan for getting the voters to back his agenda, like it or not, he'll use the bully pulpit to the max. Where FDR had fireside chats, BHO will do the talk shows, radio addresses, the net and the rest. Heck, Palin went on SNL for the publicity, it's a new world.

Hitler "reached" the people in ways that politicians never tried before. Doesn't make Obama right, like it or not.

So, what's your point?

362 redc1c4  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:28:12am

re: #323 DisturbedEma

Um, Scatagories- the official end game of the dear leader

"Clue": the game Ear Leader will never be able to master

363 opnion  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:28:26am

re: #335 avanti

Yes you are, BHO, is changing the game plan for getting the voters to back his agenda, like it or not, he'll use the bully pulpit to the max. Where FDR had fireside chats, BHO will do the talk shows, radio addresses, the net and the rest. Heck, Palin went on SNL for the publicity, it's a new world.

Come on, BHO is a media whore. You just can't avoid him, he is even on with public service messages.

364 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:28:27am

re: #340 JohnnyReb

I also read that they are having to advertise to get donations. Something they have never had to do.

Use it up, wear it out
Make it do, or do without!

365 steve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:28:37am

re: #309 DisturbedEma

Bow down to the queen of slime the queen of filth, the queen of putercence

True love saved her is the fireswamp and she treated it like garbage. . .
boo boo BOOO

Thats it LOL.
see my #348 It could be real scary.

366 Tamron  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:28:43am

OOOOOPS! PIMF...

Here's the MSNBC news article regarding 700 people applying for one single school janitor's job.

Heh -- y'all didn't need to get a repeat of the message from that lady who Obama was gonna make rich, but it got thrown in there anyway. Oh well...
.

367 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:28:51am

re: #321 JohnnyReb

Maybe you quit for the same reason, it was making my heart skip beats.

368 ilzito guacamolito  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:29:05am

re: #356 turn

I encouraged my youngest, turnspawn2, to register. He quickly found out about Karma and liked it. I joked with him and called him a karma whore. Ha!

Yes, Karma is an opiate.
"You like me! You really like me!" channeling Sally Field.

369 doppelganglander  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:29:06am

re: #244 Nevergiveup

Madonna may adopt another child from Malawi

[Link: www.reuters.com...]

She's collecting kids like I collect....Well actually I don't collect, but you get the point?

Why doesn't she just adopt that Brazilian boy she's running around with?

370 Joel  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:29:16am

America unfortunately is going to be unrecognizable 8 years from now.

371 Kragar  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:29:27am

Spin the bottle: The official Barry administration cabinet selection method

372 steve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:29:51am

re: #360 Ben Hur

Oh-bama, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz.........

All my friends drive Porsche's

373 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:30:05am

re: #369 doppelganglander

Why doesn't she just adopt that Brazilian boy she's running around with?

But then she'd be Woody Allen?

374 Tamron  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:30:09am

re: #227 littleoldlady

Hoosier! :-)

Shhhh! I'm working a deal here.

;-)

HIYA, [[[[[[LITTLE OLD LADY]]]]]

How's your day so far? (Umm, what kind of a deal might that be?)
.

375 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:30:16am

re: #369 doppelganglander

Why doesn't she just adopt that Brazilian boy she's running around with?

Ewwwww, Woody Allen-esque!

376 faraway  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:30:21am

Dow is down 60 points since Obama's announcement

377 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:30:30am

re: #352 Bloodnok

Yes. This is what has been driving me crazy for the past few months. There is a huge soap box there for the taking if someone with courage on the Republican side would just step up.

They are too busy arguing over creationism in the schools and how the party platform on abortion should read.

//maybe?

378 HelloDare  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:30:37am

re: #319 buzzsawmonkey

I usually detest all Nazi comparisons. But that was so bad it was good. I couldn't help myself and gave you an upding. Just never let it happen again. /

379 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:30:38am

re: #373 Nevergiveup

But then she'd be Woody Allen?

11 seconds!

380 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:30:39am

re: #347 OldLineTexan

file.not.found.

initiating.global.thermonuclear.war

/

The only winning move is not to play.

381 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:31:01am

re: #370 Joel

America unfortunately is going to be unrecognizable 8 years from now.

Hell, I give it to the end of the year.

382 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:31:04am

re: #360 Ben Hur

Oh-bama, won't you buy me a Mercedes Benz.........

He won't, but he'll buy you a Chevrolet. However, someone else will get to drive it, even though it will be your taxes that paid for it.

383 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:31:14am

re: #379 OldLineTexan

11 seconds!

It was just a natural

384 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:31:21am

re: #357 avanti

Even the $75/hour guy that puts on hub caps for GM will have his paycheck looked at before the government bails them out. he might choose to do the job for less rather then head to Home Depot for a job if GM fails.


75 bucks puts em on, 35 bucks takes em off, it's a free market thing :)

385 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:31:21am

re: #349 DisturbedEma

sheesh is there no END to the problems dear leader has to solve?
bring the effin cookies to put under the chairs. . .

Cookies? I want some hash brownies.

386 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:32:02am

re: #385 MandyManners

Cookies? I want some hash brownies.

Ah the old days. Sigh.

387 MJ  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:32:06am

Seattle Paper Shifts Entirely to the Web

The Seattle Post-Intelligencer newspaper will produce its last printed edition on Tuesday and become an Internet-only news source, the Hearst Corporation said on Monday, making it by far the largest American newspaper to take that leap.

But the P-I, as it is called, will resemble a local Huffington Post more than a traditional newspaper, with a news staff of about 20 people rather than the 165 it has had, and a site consisting mostly of commentary, advice and links to other news sites, along with some original reporting.

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Good riddance.

388 littleoldlady  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:32:07am

re: #374 Tamron

Tamron! :-)

faraway got a 2 million dollar bonus this year so I offered to marry him*.

/*Hoping faraway is a male
//actually, for $2 million, it wouldn't really matter...

;-)

389 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:32:12am

re: #376 faraway

Dow is down 60 points since Obama's announcement

That does not surprise me it happens every time he opens his mouth. I am laughing at that Drudge Report about the chicken fingers product that Germany is marketing using Obama's name.

390 Westward Ho  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:32:20am

re: #342 faraway

Hey Ho, who gives the haircut? The guvment? If so, that's Socialism. If you're OK with that, then just say so. Don't be afraid.

If you don't want the haircut don't take the money - simple.

391 SteveC  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:32:27am

re: #367 turn

Maybe you quit for the same reason, it was making my heart skip beats.

I gave up the caffeine, but it is Obama making my heart skip beats!

392 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:32:29am

have to leave for a bit -- but here's a parting rhetorical question:

How many 18-minute gaps do you think the Obama Administration will wind up with before it's all over?

393 OldLineTexan  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:32:42am

re: #385 MandyManners

Cookies? I want some hash brownies.

not strong enough ... sky still blue ... trees still green ... Barry still POTUS ... [gasp] .... MORE! ... MORE! ... [sputter][rattle][cough]

394 yesandno  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:32:43am

re: #335 avanti

Yes you are, BHO, is changing the game plan for getting the voters to back his agenda, like it or not, he'll use the bully pulpit to the max. Where FDR had fireside chats, BHO will do the talk shows, radio addresses, the net and the rest. Heck, Palin went on SNL for the publicity, it's a new world.

Look, Obama has a radio address. I just don't think our political decision making should be seen through the eyes of comedians and celebutards.

And I wasn't crazy about any of them on SNL or the late night shows then either. I think running for the office and the office itself shouldn't be on the same level as the person who won the hog calling contest in Buford.

Sorry, I don't want a President who is undignified and then looks down on me as not good enough.

395 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:33:09am

re: #360 Ben Hur

Oh-bama, won't you Youtube Video>buy me a Mercedes Benz.........

396 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:33:12am

re: #385 MandyManners

Cookies? I want some hash brownies.

397 Kragar  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:33:34am

re: #387 MJ

Seattle Paper Shifts Entirely to the Web


[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Good riddance.

a site consisting mostly of commentary, advice and links to other news sites, along with some original reporting.

So they plan to become a copy of LGF?

398 ErnieG  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:33:35am

re: #357 avanti

Even the $75/hour guy that puts on hub caps for GM will have his paycheck looked at before the government bails them out. he might choose to do the job for less rather then head to Home Depot for a job if GM fails.

That's $25/hour for the work and $50/hour not to throw a wrench in the machinery.

399 MJ  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:33:55am

re: #387 MJ

Seattle Paper Shifts Entirely to the Web

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Good riddance.

"consisting mostly of commentary..."

That's all the paper ever consisted of anyway.

400 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:34:10am

re: #370 Joel

America unfortunately is going to be unrecognizable 8 years from now.

You are assuming FCBBHO is gonna' win in 2012.

401 callahan23  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:34:13am

re: #393 OldLineTexan

not strong enough ... sky still blue ... trees still green ... Barry still POTUS ... [gasp] .... MORE! ... MORE! ... [sputter][rattle][cough]

I am hungrrrryyyiiiiii

402 AuntAcid  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:34:32am

re: #341 MandyManners

But, what about his regular Wednesday soiree?

all POTUS TV appearances to be teleprompted or duck-taped

403 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:34:37am

re: #376 faraway

Dow is down 60 points since Obama's announcement

I don't think that many people want the government to be able to come in and nullify contracts on a whim.

404 newsjunkie_ky  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:34:45am

re: #344 HoosierHoops

Speaking of movies..I just watched Copying Beethoven.
Ed Harris should have won an Oscar for his role as Beethoven..
I give it 5 out 5 stars..
The Hoopster has spoken!

Had never heard of this movie. Will check it out. Ed Harris should have won for 'The Truman Show', one of my favorites.

405 FrogMarch  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:34:48am

re: #284 yesandno

This is outrageous. Damn, he is the President. I don't think he should be above it all, but Late Night talkshows are not the proper venue for the Leader of the Free World to promote anything but celebrity.

Sorry folks, I am old school.

Yeah, I agree. I think it's tacky. But so much of our culture revolves around celebrity - and Obama is our first celebrity president.

406 Erik The Red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:35:14am

re: #388 littleoldlady

{lol} what brings you here at this time? :)

407 JohnnyReb  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:35:26am

re: #367 turn

Maybe you quit for the same reason, it was making my heart skip beats.

Yes that was it 15 years ago, gave up the caffeine and my PVC's went away. And now for some odd freakin reason, I quit smoking and the suckers came back! The cardiology guy can't figure it out. I get the full battery of tests starting next Tuesday.

408 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:35:34am

re: #386 Nevergiveup

Ah the old days. Sigh.

I can still smell a pipe!

409 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:35:44am

re: #405 FrogMarch

Yeah, I agree. I think it's tacky. But so much of our culture revolves around celebrity - and Obama is our first celebrity president.

Well not so sure about that. JFK was quite the celebrity. How old are you?

410 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:35:57am

re: #398 ErnieG

That's $25/hour for the work and $50/hour not to throw a wrench in the machinery.

i like the way you thinks...

411 faraway  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:36:01am

Gird Your Loins: the official slogan of the Obama administration

412 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:36:02am

re: #391 SteveC

I gave up the caffeine, but it is Obama making my heart skip beats!

Heard that!

413 newsjunkie_ky  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:36:04am

re: #346 yma o hyd

Give that man a break - he's campaigning, after all!

///////

John McCain's ad on the 0 biggest personality was right on target. the 0 and wife are attention whores.

414 steve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:36:37am

re: #387 MJ

Seattle Paper Shifts Entirely to the Web

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Good riddance.

I offered them $20.00 but they never got back to me.

415 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:36:38am

re: #408 MandyManners

I can still smell a pipe!

I'd be afraid to even smell it, and have it ending up in my piss.

416 yesandno  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:37:00am

re: #389 afrocity

That does not surprise me it happens every time he opens his mouth. I am laughing at that Drudge Report about the chicken fingers product that Germany is marketing using Obama's name.

Well, one it comes to fingers, Obama is giving us all one.....

417 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:37:01am

re: #376 faraway

Dow is down 60 points since Obama's announcement

You lost me with that one, it's been up and down all day from opening up 40 to up 160, now hanging around a 100, but went up after the small business speech.

418 Ben Hur  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:37:05am

Michelle is President.

419 Ghost707  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:37:06am

No one is talking about pork anymore are they?
This diversion should be good for Obama to spend another $trillion on welfare/voter programs.

420 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:37:37am

re: #393 OldLineTexan

not strong enough ... sky still blue ... trees still green ... Barry still POTUS ... [gasp] .... MORE! ... MORE! ... [sputter][rattle][cough]

Try this!

421 callahan23  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:37:48am

re: #416 yesandno

Well, one it comes to fingers, Obama is giving us all one.....

Not guessing which one.

422 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:38:00am

re: #402 AuntAcid

Duct. DUCT. DUCT.

/sorry, pet peeve

423 littleoldlady  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:38:16am

re: #406 Erik The Red

Erik! :-)

Avoiding doing work.

424 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:38:28am

re: #417 avanti

You lost me with that one, it's been up and down all day from opening up 40 to up 160, now hanging around a 100, but went up after the small business speech.

Whose side are you on?

425 doppelganglander  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:38:54am

re: #387 MJ

Seattle Paper Shifts Entirely to the Web

[Link: www.nytimes.com...]

Good riddance.

Seattle Post-Intelligencer -- Intelligent as a post!

/James Taranto, Best of the Web

426 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:39:09am

I have got 20 minutes till my next and last appointment. It's a 2 hour appointment. I hope she brings her wallet?

427 jamgarr  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:39:23am

Jenga - The official game of Obama economic policy.

428 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:39:26am

re: #418 Ben Hur

Did you see the article that I posted on the first couple? Look at the "Moonbats" category.

Someone DINGED ME DOWN for it. What's with people?

429 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:39:31am

re: #418 Ben Hur

Michelle is President.

Ms. I'm showing off my arms while my country is in the pits?

430 Erik The Red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:39:37am

re: #424 afrocity

Whose side are you on?

Not ours AC. He is ?

431 MJ  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:39:57am

re: #409 Nevergiveup

Well not so sure about that. JFK was quite the celebrity. How old are you?

Quite true. But JFK did have at least some substance to him unlike Obama.
T paraphrase Lloyd Benson, Obama is no JFK.

432 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:39:59am

Ex-Pa. senator convicted of 137 corruption counts


[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

433 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:40:23am

re: #427 jamgarr

Jenga - The official game of Obama economic policy.

That and SORRY

434 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:40:28am

re: #407 JohnnyReb

Yes that was it 15 years ago, gave up the caffeine and my PVC's went away. And now for some odd freakin reason, I quit smoking and the suckers came back! The cardiology guy can't figure it out. I get the full battery of tests starting next Tuesday.

Same here PVC, major causes are stress, alcohol, and caffeine. Quitting may have stressed you out. Came down to a choice between alcohol and caffeine, a no brainer for turn. Good luck JR.

435 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:41:14am

re: #420 MandyManners

Try this!

There's a competing product out there. [NSFW]

436 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:41:17am

re: #432 Dustyvet

Ex-Pa. senator convicted of 137 corruption counts

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Gee I had to read a long way DOWN to find out what party he was in?

437 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:41:31am

re: #396 Dustyvet

That is one of the funniest things I've heard in a long, long time. I wonder what happened to him in court.

438 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:41:51am

re: #425 doppelganglander

Seattle Post-Intelligencer -- Intelligent as a post!

/James Taranto, Best of the Web

I think he's also used the Seattle Dumb as a Post-Intelligencer quip as well. Both are well earned.

The PI is on the vanguard of many newspapers that are going online only, because the paper versions no longer make money.

Of course, they still have to figure out how to make money online too. Otherwise they're not all that much different than blogs reporting on local events.

439 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:42:10am

re: #430 Erik The Red

Not ours AC. He is ?

I take it that Avanti is the resident devil's advocate.

440 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:42:11am

re: #397 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

So they plan to become a copy of LGF?

NOTHING CAN COPY LGF. NOTHING.

441 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:42:20am

re: #326 Walter L. Newton

Oh, poop.

442 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:42:42am

re: #178 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

That's funny. I'm going to do that next time I get one of those idiotic tags. LOLOLOL.

443 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:42:48am

re: #418 Ben Hur

Michelle is President.

Just saw a clothing store ad on TV. The gal said, "I think Michelle would shop here" Everyone is trying to cash in on both of them.

444 Mr. Sandman  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:43:01am

Perhaps the solution in this situation is to do something analogous to what the Republicans wanted to do in the case of the auto-companies. Let AIG go into bankruptcy--don't let it literally collapse, since that would send a gargantuan systemic shockwave that would make economic pillars all over the place fall like dominoes. But let it go into bankruptcy and restructuring by the government, so that all those "legal contracts" to enrich themselves can be wiped out. If we do that, and also start taking mega-banks into receivership, then that will be our best chance to survive this crisis with as little pain as possible.

445 ladycatnip  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:43:02am

#284 yesandno

This is outrageous. Damn, he is the President. I don't think he should be above it all, but Late Night talk shows are not the proper venue for the Leader of the Free World to promote anything but celebrity.

Sorry folks, I am old school.

Totally agree with you, and I'm old school as well, but unfortunately the generations below me have all been raised on MTV, John Stewart, the "star" mentality, etc., and that's what does it for them. Obama and his ilk make me feel like an anachronism.

446 Occasional Reader  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:43:10am

re: #429 afrocity

Ms. I'm showing off my arms while my country is in the pits?

I think she should get "HOPE" and "CHANGE" tattoos, one on each bicep.

447 littleoldlady  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:43:11am

re: #436 Nevergiveup

Gee I had to read a long way DOWN to find out what party he was in?

"Philadelphia" and "politician" in the same sentence?

Party is a given.

448 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:43:18am

re: #402 AuntAcid

all POTUS TV appearances to be teleprompted or duck-taped

"Duck-taped" or goose-stepped?

449 AuntAcid  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:43:18am

DOW 102.50+1.42%
7,326.48
NASDAQ 5.03-0.35%
1,426.47
S&P 500 9.89+1.31%
766.44
10YR 1/3298 8/32
Yield: 2.95%
OIL 0.59+1.28%
$46.84

450 HelloDare  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:43:32am

Sort of what Obama is trying to do. Except he's trying to put a pretty face on this pig of a Porkulus Package.

Vt. hunter busted for bolting antlers on dead doe

BURLINGTON, Vt. – A man who bolted antlers to the head of a dead doe and posed for a photograph with the deer was fined $400 and jailed for game violations.

Marcel Fournier, 19, shot the deer the evening of Nov. 22 and used lag bolts and epoxy to attach a 10-point rack, officials said. He then checked in the kill as lawful game at Barnie's Market.

It's illegal to kill an antlerless deer, and it's also illegal to hunt at night.

The Concord resident admitted to the killing and led a game warden to the deer's remains after an anonymous caller alerted authorities. Fournier said he had "quite a time" drilling and fastening the antlers, authorities said.

Game warden David Gregory said the antlers didn't look or feel right.

"When you grabbed them, you'd feel movement," he said.

Col. David LeCours, chief warden of the state Department of Fish and Wildlife, said the size of the antlers relative to the size of the deer seemed off.

"Something wasn't natural about them, in addition to the fact that they weren't natural," he said.

Fournier was sentenced to 10 days in jail Feb. 18 for taking a deer in a closed season. He won't qualify for a state hunting, fishing or trapping license for at least three years.

LeCours said add-on antlers are the stuff of legend, but that it's the first documented case of it in Vermont.

451 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:43:47am

re: #443 avanti

Just saw a clothing store ad on TV. The gal said, "I think Michelle would shop here" Everyone is trying to cash in on both of them.

No shit?

452 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:43:55am

re: #436 Nevergiveup

Burry the "D".

453 Ben Hur  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:43:58am

BB:L

454 doppelganglander  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:44:02am

re: #438 lawhawk

What do you suppose will happen to all those unemployed journalists? It's not like they have any skills or anything.

455 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:44:05am

re: #415 Nevergiveup

I'd be afraid to even smell it, and have it ending up in my piss.

Sensitive system you have!

456 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:44:18am

re: #437 MandyManners

That is one of the funniest things I've heard in a long, long time. I wonder what happened to him in court.

They probably made that 911 call AFTER they ordered out for pizza. Ha! Overdosing on pot, that's funny.

457 Erik The Red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:44:21am

re: #439 afrocity

I take it that Avanti is the resident devil's advocate.

More like token liberal.

458 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:44:24am

re: #404 newsjunkie_ky

Had never heard of this movie. Will check it out. Ed Harris should have won for 'The Truman Show', one of my favorites.

Just a wonderful movie...And as a plus..The leading lady is Diane Kruger..
Jeez..She is smoking hot...Never heard of her before.
/It's a guy thing.*wink*

459 Occasional Reader  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:44:48am

re: #457 Erik The Red

More like token tokin' liberal.

FIFY.

460 gmsc  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:44:57am

Without the bonuses, will these Ferraris just be left out on the street to rust?

Seriously, First, they're contracted bonuses, so if he's going to stop them, he must find some grounds to break the contract.

Sure, people are outraged at these bonuses. However, they wouldn't be receiving them in the first place if you and the Congressional Dems hadn't bailed them out! Instead, right now, the company would be closing or restructuring, these people with the bonuses would be looking for other jobs, and the economy could recover quicker.

461 yesandno  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:45:04am

re: #443 avanti

Just saw a clothing store ad on TV. The gal said, "I think Michelle would shop here" Everyone is trying to cash in on both of them.

I would feel towards that ad like my Dad always felt when he saw this sign:

"Food like your Mother used to make"

He response was always, "WE aren't eating there!"

462 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:45:13am

re: #422 Slumbering Behemoth

Duct. DUCT. DUCT.

/sorry, pet peeve

Don't mess with my play on words in No. 448, please.

463 doppelganglander  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:45:16am

re: #443 avanti

Just saw a clothing store ad on TV. The gal said, "I think Michelle would shop here" Everyone is trying to cash in on both of them.

That would be the last place I would shop. She does not know how to dress.

464 A Man for all Seasons  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:45:24am

re: #428 WriterMom

Did you see the article that I posted on the first couple? Look at the "Moonbats" category.

Someone DINGED ME DOWN for it. What's with people?

got you covered Writermom...Hope today finds you well

465 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:45:30am

re: #439 afrocity

I remember the first post I ever saw of his. Basically (I'm paraphrasing), it said...

"While I voted for 0bama; I knew he was full of shit, completely unprepared to fulfill the extravagant promises that he was making..."


That's just hard to respect.

466 littleoldlady  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:45:36am

re: #450 HelloDare

"Something wasn't natural about them, in addition to the fact that they weren't natural," he said.

/government employee

467 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:45:37am

re: #424 afrocity

Whose side are you on?

I'm on the side of fair, for example the market is now up 25 more, it goes up and down without BHO input.

468 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:45:38am

re: #432 Dustyvet

Ex-Pa. senator convicted of 137 corruption counts


[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

"Democrat" isn't used until the 3rd paragraph in. Why am I not surprised.

469 MJ  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:45:43am

re: #454 doppelganglander

What do you suppose will happen to all those unemployed journalists? It's not like they have any skills or anything.

Try and hook up with the Obama Administration.

470 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:45:44am

re: #457 Erik The Red

More like token liberal.

Yeah, that's what afrocity said.

471 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:45:46am

re: #450 HelloDare

Sort of what Obama is trying to do. Except he's trying to put a pretty face on this pig of a Porkulus Package.

Vt. hunter busted for bolting antlers on dead doe

"Doe a deer, a female deer...."


/S

472 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:45:49am

re: #432 Dustyvet

Ex-Pa. senator convicted of 137 corruption counts

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]

Paragraph 3 before they mention the party affiliation.

473 Occasional Reader  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:46:02am

re: #448 MandyManners

"Duck-taped" or goose-stepped?

I always enjoy taking a gander at your posts, Mandy.

474 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:46:11am

re: #451 brookly red

No shit?

I saw that commercial. It is disgraceful.

475 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:46:29am

re: #454 doppelganglander

What do you suppose will happen to all those unemployed journalists? It's not like they have any skills or anything.

Obama's got an employment program set up for dislocated journalists. They end up in the Administration or in government jobs.

476 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:46:42am

re: #444 Mr. Sandman

dude, what happened to your Karma?

477 outsidephilly  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:46:42am

re: #407 JohnnyReb

Yes that was it 15 years ago, gave up the caffeine and my PVC's went away. And now for some odd freakin reason, I quit smoking and the suckers came back! The cardiology guy can't figure it out. I get the full battery of tests starting next Tuesday.


What's your calcium intake?

478 ilzito guacamolito  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:47:12am

re: #436 Nevergiveup

Gee I had to read a long way DOWN to find out what party he was in?

I know. I am surprised you didn't have to go to Wiki to find out.

479 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:47:13am

re: #473 Occasional Reader

I always enjoy taking a gander at your posts, Mandy.

I'm down with that.

480 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:47:31am

re: #468 DaddyG

You noticed that too?

481 ErnieG  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:47:43am

re: #475 lawhawk

Obama's got an employment program set up for dislocated journalists. They end up in the Administration or in government jobs.

The really good jobs go to the ones who haven't paid their taxes.

482 JohnnyReb  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:47:47am

re: #434 turn

Same here PVC, major causes are stress, alcohol, and caffeine. Quitting may have stressed you out. Came down to a choice between alcohol and caffeine, a no brainer for turn. Good luck JR.

Thanks. Same here and all I got left is my beer. He pretty much told me to quit that too this AM. Oddly, stopping smoking didn't stress me out this time. I got really sick for a week or so and physically could not smoke, so I just didn't start again after I got better. I didn't have the stress like I had before.

483 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:48:02am

re: #446 Occasional Reader

I'm posting this again, just for the puke affect.

New York Magazine writer asks: How Long Has It Been Since A First Couple "WANTED" Each Other?

484 Creeping Eruption  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:48:05am

OT: on hold waiting for a "customer service" representative. The Muzak lulled me to sleep. I woke myself snoring. Hope my boss hasn't popped his head in my office in the meantime.

485 zombie  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:48:05am

re: #438 lawhawk

I think he's also used the Seattle Dumb as a Post-Intelligencer quip as well. Both are well earned.

The PI is on the vanguard of many newspapers that are going online only, because the paper versions no longer make money.

Of course, they still have to figure out how to make money online too. Otherwise they're not all that much different than blogs reporting on local events.

Read the article. They are no different from a blog:


But the P-I, as it is called, will resemble a local Huffington Post more than a traditional newspaper, with a news staff of about 20 people rather than the 165 it has had, and a site consisting mostly of commentary, advice and links to other news sites, along with some original reporting.

The site has recruited some current and former government officials to write columns, and it will keep some of the popular columnists and bloggers who already work there, in addition to the large number of unpaid local bloggers whose work appears on the site. Hearst also plans to repackage material from its large stable of magazines for the site.

Basically, the Seattle P-I is now a blog.

Good luck making a profit on that, Hearst Corporation!

486 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:48:06am

re: #462 MandyManners

I'm a guy, and guy's take their tools seriously. And duct tape is the most serious tool there is.

/duct tape is serious business

487 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:48:14am

re: #457 Erik The Red

More like token liberal.

Oh like Alan Colmes?

488 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:48:26am
489 Sabnen  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:48:54am

My two-cents worth of AIG understanding . . .

AIG was going great guns under the leadership of Maurice 'Hank' Greenberg. The ambitious, political-climber, NY State Attorney General Eliot Spitzer (D.) brought various criminal fraud charges against Hank and AIG starting in 2005. By March 2005 Greenberg was forced to resign. A year later criminal charges were dropped and civil charges then filed, those court room acrobatics are on-going.

While these charges were distracting the AIG leadership, the AIG London Office began writing Credit Default Swaps BIG time, they put AIG on the hook for $2 Trillion (that's a T not a B). CDS's are a form of 'insurance' that is not regulated (but were given the blessing of Alan Greenspan and Robert Rubin as 'necessary financial instruments' when they were in a position to do something about regulating them).

Anyhow . . . this London office was virtually a rogue outfit and worked way out of the parameters of normal AIG offices. Their CDS commitments have ruined AIG. They priced the CDS premiums too cheaply and 'insured' too much money from losses they didn't foresee. With the downturn of the world economy policy holders called to collect (remember that $2 Trillion figure above) and AIG as we know it ceased to exist.

Curiously, these London Office operators also worked 'bonus money' into their working contracts. It is to the London Office that most of this contentious bonus money is being paid. To withhold this money would be trouble in court where punitive fines could be levied against AIG if a judgment came down against. So the current leadership paid.

490 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:48:59am

re: #435 Slumbering Behemoth

There's a competing product out there. [NSFW]

ROFLMAO!

491 Erik The Red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:49:13am

re: #467 avanti

I'm on the side of fair, for example the market is now up 25 more, it goes up and down without BHO input.

Bullshit. 44 and his team of "stupid" have caused this market to go down over 20% since he came to office.

He has managed to keep both his feet out of his mouth for a few days.

492 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:49:19am

re: #483 WriterMom

OH! POOP!

493 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:49:23am

re: #451 brookly red

No shit?

Newest gallop poll. BHO is now 91% with Dems, 59% with independents, but only 26% with GOP voters. He's not doing well outside the middle or left, still at 61% overall.

poll.

494 AuntAcid  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:49:34am

re: #425 doppelganglander

Seattle Post-Intelligencer -- Intelligent as a post!

/James Taranto, Best of the Web

Seattle needs something to teather the goat that they share with Vancouver, BC.
Seattle is a one goat town.

495 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:49:38am

re: #413 newsjunkie_ky

John McCain's ad on the 0 biggest personality was right on target. the 0 and wife are attention whores.

Yes - that was so true.
But who believed them?
Only 41% ...

Hiya, {newsjunkie_ky}!

496 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:49:42am

re: #464 HoosierHoops

Consider that ding like a hug!

497 Occasional Reader  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:49:49am

re: #483 WriterMom

I'm posting this again, just for the puke affect.

New York Magazine writer asks: How Long Has It Been Since A First Couple "WANTED" Each Other?

I guess it's marginally better than having to see Al Gore snog Tipper live, onstage, back in 2000... but only slightly.

498 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:49:51am

re: #467 avanti

I'm on the side of fair, for example the market is now up 25 more, it goes up and down without BHO input.

Sigh, but Avanti the DOW did go down today. Besides as low as it was there is no other way but up. No one is being unfair here.

499 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:50:24am

re: #457 Erik The Red

More like token liberal.

Make that token social liberal, and I'll be happy.

500 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:50:35am

re: #483 WriterMom

I'm posting this again, just for the puke affect.

New York Magazine writer asks: How Long Has It Been Since A First Couple "WANTED" Each Other?

Notice that everyone else in that photo is trying very hard not to look at them. They don't want to see it either.

501 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:50:45am

re: #483 WriterMom

Didn't we hear that same kind of shallow crap during the Clinton admin.?

All the news that fit to *spit*.

502 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:50:54am

re: #474 afrocity

I saw that commercial. It is disgraceful.

I will take you word for it... I don't turn the TV on unless a plane fly into a bulding or something.

503 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:51:03am

re: #473 Occasional Reader

I always enjoy taking a gander at your posts, Mandy.

Glad I don't ruffle your feathers.

504 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:51:09am

re: #486 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm a guy, and guy's take their tools seriously. And duct tape is the most serious tool there is.

/duct tape is serious business

Duct Tape Forever!

Red Green

505 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:51:17am

re: #497 Occasional Reader

It was definitely the most revolting, fawning piece I've seen for...a day or so.

506 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:51:17am

re: #482 JohnnyReb

Thanks. Same here and all I got left is my beer. He pretty much told me to quit that too this AM. Oddly, stopping smoking didn't stress me out this time. I got really sick for a week or so and physically could not smoke, so I just didn't start again after I got better. I didn't have the stress like I had before.

That's how I quit too, problem was I took up chewing instead. Don't really need that either, until I pop a beer that is. I didn't smoke until I was in my thirties and only then for about 10 years. I'm kind of a weird example of an ex-smoker.

507 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:51:24am
508 newsjunkie_ky  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:51:29am

re: #482 JohnnyReb

Thanks. Same here and all I got left is my beer. He pretty much told me to quit that too this AM. Oddly, stopping smoking didn't stress me out this time. I got really sick for a week or so and physically could not smoke, so I just didn't start again after I got better. I didn't have the stress like I had before.

Hey, Lexington's Tea Party is this Saturday at noon on the lower plaza of the new courthouse.

509 JohnnyReb  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:51:37am

re: #477 outsidephilly

What's your calcium intake?

Most likely in the negative zone. There are about 35 check marks on the blood work request that I got from him. I am going to see the Vampires tomorrow after fasting.

510 littleoldlady  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:51:50am

re: #493 avanti

TANKS for the memories!

511 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:52:10am

re: #450 HelloDare

Sort of what Obama is trying to do. Except he's trying to put a pretty face on this pig of a Porkulus Package.

Vt. hunter busted for bolting antlers on dead doe

Film evidence of the crime

512 Erik The Red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:52:12am

re: #499 avanti

Make that token social liberal, and I'll be happy.

The difference being what?

513 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:52:43am

re: #486 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm a guy, and guy's take their tools seriously. And duct tape is the most serious tool there is.

/duct tape is serious business

I'm a gal, and gals take their tools seriously. And, duct tape is the most serious tool there is.

(I won't say a word about your extraneous appostrophe.)

514 Rednek  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:52:44am

For your daily fix of bad art:

Bad paintings of Barak Obama

515 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:52:44am

re: #499 avanti

Social liberal? Meaning you have conservative positions on other issues?

Wow.

516 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:52:44am

re: #491 Erik The Red

Bullshit. 44 and his team of "stupid" have caused this market to go down over 20% since he came to office.

He has managed to keep both his feet out of his mouth for a few days.

I don't blame BHO for what was once a 20 % drop, anymore then I blame GW for the bigger drop from DOW 14,000.

517 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:53:27am

re: #483 WriterMom

Gawd, how ridiculous.

518 yesandno  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:53:31am

re: #483 WriterMom

I'm posting this again, just for the puke affect.

New York Magazine writer asks: How Long Has It Been Since A First Couple "WANTED" Each Other?

Think they are simply laughing at someone behind their back. That for them is a real sexy situation.

/HUGE puke factor.... nothing is off limits, is it?

519 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:53:36am

re: #513 MandyManners

Mandy, I think you have out-pedanted OR on this thread.

520 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:54:24am

re: #519 WriterMom

Mandy, I think you have out-pedanted OR on this thread.

Just being my usual bitchy self, WM.

521 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:54:30am

re: #486 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm a guy, and guy's take their tools seriously. And duct tape is the most serious tool there is.

/duct tape is serious business

Harold Green: To enter the contest, we need something that's at least 50% duct tape. Most of your cars already are.

522 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:54:34am

re: #513 MandyManners

(I won't say a word about your extraneous appostrophe.)

I'm trying to find something funny in that apostrophe, and I can't. If you beat me to it, by all means fire away.

523 ErnieG  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:54:40am

re: #486 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm a guy, and guy's take their tools seriously. And duct tape is the most serious tool there is.

/duct tape is serious business

Yes. With duct tape, vise grips and WD-40 a guy can fix anything.

524 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:54:48am

re: #471 Dustyvet

"Doe a deer, a female deer...."

/S

More like "Doh! A deer, a female deer."

525 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:55:01am

re: #516 avanti

I don't blame BHO for what was once a 20 % drop, anymore then I blame GW for the bigger drop from DOW 14,000.

Me thinketh you dam with faint praise?

526 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:55:09am

re: #500 Ford_Prefect

Look... there are plenty of other Presidential couples who were into each other.

The Reagans.
The Bushes (both GHWB and GWB).
Even the Carters.

The Clintons are a decided no in that category.

As for that particular photo, those other folks wanted to give the new President and First Lady their space. I wouldn't blame them either. They no longer can have private moments. You live in a microscope 24/7/365 for four straight years. And if you get reelected, you do it again. It's a harsh lifestyle, and anyone who thinks they have it easy doesn't have a clue. It is the loneliness job in the world and it is folks like those standing off to the side to make it as easy as possible for the President - whoever it is.

527 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:55:29am

re: #473 Occasional Reader

I always enjoy taking a gander at your posts, Mandy.

She'll down you for that one.

528 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:55:32am

I do not understand the comments of a number of friends here who seem angry that Obama is trying to stop the bonuses.

Federal bailout money is given with a specific purpose, not as a blank check so that the corporate officers can make themselves even more wealthy off of the public weal. There is such a thing as malfeasance.

Why is there not more outrage here at these incompetent fatcats stealing our money? Do some people here hate Obama so much, that thay would rather see him fail at, at least trying to see this porkulus go where it is intended?

Don't get me wrong. I am not fan of the bailout as it is. Don't get me wrong, I have no love of either Republican or Democratic syphoning of the public trust into the hands of their cronies. That said, if we are going to spend money in an attempt to stimulate the economy - which all sorts of wise economic heads (on both sides of the aisle) tell us is a nescessity or bad things will happen - shouldn't we at least wnat that money to go where it is intended and not into some "prince of the universe's" (who is not beeter than you or me, in fact he is much worse, has no apparant useful skills and is a crook) personal accounts?

If I am going to pay welfare, I would prefer it went to people that needed the money - not crooks in suits. They can whine all the way to the country club. F* them.

I mean seriously, if I completely botch my job, I run the risk of getting fired - not millions in bonuses, and I do a hell of a lot more for society than these guys do.

529 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:55:34am

re: #514 Rednek

For your daily fix of bad art:

Bad paintings of Barak Obama

Service Temporarily Unavailable:(

530 newsjunkie_ky  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:55:36am

re: #516 avanti

I don't blame BHO for what was once a 20 % drop, anymore then I blame GW for the bigger drop from DOW 14,000.


It didn't start the slide until the 0 was the surefire next president.

531 gmsc  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:55:50am
532 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:55:51am

re: #520 MandyManners

I quite like it.

CARRY ON!

533 Shr_Nfr  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:55:52am

re: #486 Slumbering Behemoth

gaffer tape is a lot better. hard to get though. unless you go to a serious photography store or head out on the net you won't find it.

534 ErnieG  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:55:54am

re: #523 ErnieG

Yes. With duct tape, vise grips and WD-40 a guy can fix anything.

OK, Mandy, gals too.

535 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:55:57am

re: #524 CyanSnowHawk

First time hunter? /

536 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:56:03am

re: #474 afrocity

I saw that commercial. It is disgraceful.

I have to agree, that was a little over the top. What next, BHO shops at the Men's Warehouse ?

537 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:56:15am

re: #516 avanti

I don't blame BHO for what was once a 20 % drop, anymore then I blame GW for the bigger drop from DOW 14,000.

Do you admit that you made a mistake voting for Obama?

538 lifeofthemind  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:56:25am

Hello. The Dow is up slightly for two reasons.

1) Dead Cat Bounce.
2) Pump and Dump
It is my suspicion that BHO's friends are getting another round of cash out and will follow it with more shorting to extract a few billion more as the market slides towards 5,000 by May Day.

539 yesandno  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:56:41am

re: #514 Rednek

For your daily fix of bad art:

Bad paintings of Barak Obama

But notice how trim Michelle's arms are!

540 joncelli  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:56:47am

re: #489 Sabnen

Do you have any links to back that up? If that's the true story it doesn't follow the MSM story line (which, presumably, is why it's news to us).

541 streetfighter  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:56:56am

This entire 4 years is going to be nothing more than an endless Andre Aggasi Comercial. " Image Is Everthing "

542 Westward Ho  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:57:09am

re: #460 gmsc

Without the bonuses, will these Ferraris just be left out on the street to rust?

Seriously, First, they're contracted bonuses, so if he's going to stop them, he must find some grounds to break the contract.

Sure, people are outraged at these bonuses. However, they wouldn't be receiving them in the first place if you and the Congressional Dems hadn't bailed them out! Instead, right now, the company would be closing or restructuring, these people with the bonuses would be looking for other jobs, and the economy could recover quicker.


AIG is deemed to big to fail by the financial elite because they are the single largest holder of Credit Default Swaps. If you want your outrage meter to explode the largest foreign receiver of the Bail out funds from AIG is a FRENCH bank Societe Generale
American tax payer money is bailing out French banks.

543 Erik The Red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:58:05am

re: #516 avanti

I don't blame BHO for what was once a 20 % drop, anymore then I blame GW for the bigger drop from DOW 14,000.

Fuck off Come on Avanti. We have been there with you many times. Who caused this sub prime crisis? Who tried to fix it three years ago?

The problem with the leftfuckards is that they take no responsibility and no accountability.

544 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:58:14am

Jackie Mason Calls Obama a Schvartze

[Link: www.tmz.com...]

545 jamgarr  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:58:23am

re: #528 ludwigvanquixote

I do not understand the comments of a number of friends here who seem angry that Obama is trying to stop the bonuses.

Federal bailout money is given with a specific purpose, not as a blank check so that the corporate officers can make themselves even more wealthy off of the public weal. There is such a thing as malfeasance.

Why is there not more outrage here at these incompetent fatcats stealing our money? Do some people here hate Obama so much, that thay would rather see him fail at, at least trying to see this porkulus go where it is intended?

Don't get me wrong. I am not fan of the bailout as it is. Don't get me wrong, I have no love of either Republican or Democratic syphoning of the public trust into the hands of their cronies. That said, if we are going to spend money in an attempt to stimulate the economy - which all sorts of wise economic heads (on both sides of the aisle) tell us is a nescessity or bad things will happen - shouldn't we at least wnat that money to go where it is intended and not into some "prince of the universe's" (who is not beeter than you or me, in fact he is much worse, has no apparant useful skills and is a crook) personal accounts?

If I am going to pay welfare, I would prefer it went to people that needed the money - not crooks in suits. They can whine all the way to the country club. F* them.

I mean seriously, if I completely botch my job, I run the risk of getting fired - not millions in bonuses, and I do a hell of a lot more for society than these guys do.

There is more than one issue here. If we're talking about "Should something be done to prevent AIG bonuses?" that is different than talking about "Did AIG bigshots run the company into the ground?"

546 outsidephilly  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:58:37am

re: #509 JohnnyReb

Most likely in the negative zone. There are about 35 check marks on the blood work request that I got from him. I am going to see the Vampires tomorrow after fasting.


Without calcium your heart muscle's contractions will be whacky. The heart's cell exchange needs the proper amount of calcium, potassium, sodium to keep your heart at a normal rhythm (as seen on an EKG)
Do you know if your having multi-focal PVCs?

547 hazzyday  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:58:46am

The bailout is just a modern form of income redistribution without having to go through all the hassles.

The kids in the government mandated candy store mortgage mess are the same kids run amok in the bailout mess.

In the end they will just be sick and the candy store owner will be bankrupt.

548 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:58:49am

re: #431 MJ

Quite true. But JFK did have at least some substance to him unlike Obama.
T paraphrase Lloyd Benson, Obama is no JFK.

Nixon said it best when discussing JFK's spending/legislation penchant for taxing the hell out of everything/one

"after all, it's not Jack's money they will be spending"

Irony, want you?

I picked that quote up out of the pre tingle Matthews book. . .

549 gmsc  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:58:53am

re: #542 Westward Ho

AIG is deemed to big to fail by the financial elite because they are the single largest holder of Credit Default Swaps. If you want your outrage meter to explode the largest foreign receiver of the Bail out funds from AIG is a FRENCH bank Societe Generale
American tax payer money is bailing out French banks.

Actually, deeming anything as "too big to fail" is more outrageous than some French bank getting taxpayer money.

550 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:59:08am

re: #534 ErnieG

OK, Mandy, gals too.

My neighbor Wes from Texas said his dad used WD40 to clear up hot spots on their dogs, and he'd give them a dip to clear their worms to boot.

551 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 11:59:55am

re: #523 ErnieG

Yes. With duct tape, vise grips and WD-40 a guy can fix anything.

Don't forget baling wire and/or wire hangers.

552 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:00:01pm

re: #493 avanti

Newest gallop poll. BHO is now 91% with Dems, 59% with independents, but only 26% with GOP voters. He's not doing well outside the middle or left, still at 61% overall.

poll.

You may have noticed that I do not as a rule insult other posters, but do you really believe polls?

553 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:00:02pm

re: #528 ludwigvanquixote

It is a matter of hypocrisy.A bonus can represent many things to many people.
Nancy Pelosi and her abuse of airplane privileges sounds like a bonus to me
Obama eating Kobe steaks sounds like a bonus to me

554 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:00:24pm

re: #516 avanti

I don't blame BHO for what was once a 20 % drop, anymore then I blame GW for the bigger drop from DOW 14,000.

Exactly how was Bush complicit in pressuring the mortgage companies to take on bad debt ala Barney Frank and Maxine Waters?

555 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:00:33pm

re: #485 zombie

Indeed. You probably could outstrip PI in original news reporting all by your lonesome. I turn up a few original reports here and there - largely on Ground Zero stuff and some media bias stuff, but you're absolutely right that PI is going to be little more than an empty shell that isn't worth the effort.

556 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:00:36pm

re: #524 CyanSnowHawk

More like "Doh! A deer, a female deer."

DOH! I really need a beer
RE! The guy who brings me beer
MI! The guy who drinks the beer
FA! A long, long way for beer
SO! I think I'll have a beer
LA! La la la la la beer
TI! No thanks, I'm having beer
That'll bring us back to DOH!

557 AuntAcid  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:00:44pm

re: #422 Slumbering Behemoth

Duct. DUCT. DUCT.

/sorry, pet peeve

no..."duck" as in "get the fuck down"
dodge the question "duck"...

558 Erik The Red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:00:49pm

re: #552 brookly red

You may have noticed that I do not as a rule insult other posters, but do you really believe polls?

He seems to get off from it. Insult away.

559 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:00:55pm

re: #518 yesandno

Think they are simply laughing at someone behind their back. That for them is a real sexy situation.

/HUGE puke factor.... nothing is off limits, is it?


puke, gag, puke. . .mental image of those two eeeeek

560 Westward Ho  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:00:59pm

re: #489 Sabnen

My two-cents worth of AIG understanding . . .


While these charges were distracting the AIG leadership, the AIG London Office began writing Credit Default Swaps BIG time, they put AIG on the hook for $2 Trillion (that's a T not a B). CDS's are a form of 'insurance' that is not regulated (but were given the blessing of Alan Greenspan and Robert Rubin as 'necessary financial instruments' when they were in a position to do something about regulating them).

Anyhow . . . this London office was virtually a rogue outfit and worked way out of the parameters of normal AIG offices. Their CDS commitments have ruined AIG. They priced the CDS premiums too cheaply and 'insured' too much money from losses they didn't foresee. With the downturn of the world economy policy holders called to collect (remember that $2 Trillion figure above) and AIG as we know it ceased to exist.

Curiously, these London Office operators also worked 'bonus money' into their working contracts. It is to the London Office that most of this contentious bonus money is being paid. To withhold this money would be trouble in court where punitive fines could be levied against AIG if a judgment came down against. So the current leadership paid.

Hey according to some posters I have socialist leanings so lets reward the guys responsible for the largest corporate loss in history with taxpayers money.

561 Vicious Babushka  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:01:00pm

re: #244 Nevergiveup

Madonna may adopt another child from Malawi

[Link: www.reuters.com...]

She's collecting kids like I collect....Well actually I don't collect, but you get the point?

So, who has more now, Madonna or Brangelina?

562 Mike in Georgia  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:01:01pm

The state of Georgia decided to go after people who aren't paying
their state taxes. They identified 800 in metro Atlanta. 400 are
city of Atlanta employees. There's a message here somewhere.

563 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:01:43pm

re: #552 brookly red

You may have noticed that I do not as a rule insult other posters, but do you really believe polls?

And what LEADER governs by polls? Oh Yeah, Democrats.

564 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:02:10pm

re: #537 afrocity

Do you admit that you made a mistake voting for Obama?

Heck no, like most of the country, I have no major issues so far. He's only unpopular with the conservative Republican base, as would be expected with a liberal POTUS.

565 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:02:15pm

re: #557 AuntAcid

How do you get down off an elephant?
You don't. You get down off a goose.

566 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:02:25pm

re: #522 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm trying to find something funny in that apostrophe, and I can't. If you beat me to it, by all means fire away.

Hoisted by my own petard!

567 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:02:29pm

re: #545 jamgarr

There is more than one issue here. If we're talking about "Should something be done to prevent AIG bonuses?" that is different than talking about "Did AIG bigshots run the company into the ground?"


I do not see the difference actually, generally, one gets a bonus for doing a good job. A bonus is money above and beyond slary, hence the word bonus.

Money that is cleary intended to save a company is something that goes to operations - not bonuses above the cost of operations. Please tell me how it is possible that this is not seen as robbery.

568 hazzyday  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:02:34pm

re: #516 avanti

I don't blame BHO for what was once a 20 % drop, anymore then I blame GW for the bigger drop from DOW 14,000.

BHO case is different. The BHO drop is based on confidence analysis of BHO. People are saying they aren't confident in him when it comes to their money.

If you are refering to the dot com bubble for GWB. no one blamed that on GWB. The markets were permitted to work there. Here they are being (interfeared) with.

569 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:02:39pm

re: #556 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

DOH! I really need a beer
RE! The guy who brings me beer
MI! The guy who drinks the beer
FA! A long, long way for beer
SO! I think I'll have a beer
LA! La la la la la beer
TI! No thanks, I'm having beer
That'll bring us back to DOH!

These are a few of my favorite things....

570 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:02:45pm

re: #343 Ford_Prefect

Communist Manifesto: The official book of the Obama Administration.

I thought it was Rules for Radicals.

571 phoenixgirl  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:02:48pm

re: #542 Westward Ho

AIG is deemed to big to fail by the financial elite because they are the single largest holder of Credit Default Swaps. If you want your outrage meter to explode the largest foreign receiver of the Bail out funds from AIG is a FRENCH bank Societe Generale
American tax payer money is bailing out French banks.

why would aig bail out french banks? is it because those banks were insured by aig and aig is meeting their obligation to pay out on a valid claim? i'm not trying to be snarky, i'm trying to figure out this whole thing.

572 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:02:50pm

re: #561 Alouette

So, who has more now, Madonna or Brangelina?


Bran- 3 birthed, and 3 adopted

the other one 2 birthed 1 adopted

573 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:02:56pm

re: #533 Shr_Nfr

No! Behead those who insult the Holy Tape of Duct!
////

574 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:03:14pm

re: #557 AuntAcid

no..."duck" as in "get the fuck down"
dodge the question "duck"...

"We got Quackers!"

575 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:03:24pm

re: #554 DaddyG

Exactly how was Bush complicit in pressuring the mortgage companies to take on bad debt ala Barney Frank and Maxine Waters?

He did nothing about it. This is the inevitable fallout from about 20 years of bad policies from Republicans and Democrats.

576 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:03:26pm

re: #562 Mike in Georgia

What message that we haven't seen played forth over the past few months again and again?

577 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:03:32pm

re: #553 afrocity

It is a matter of hypocrisy.A bonus can represent many things to many people.
Nancy Pelosi and her abuse of airplane privileges sounds like a bonus to me
Obama eating Kobe steaks sounds like a bonus to me

No thoses are perks (spit) bonuses are linked to performace.

578 DisturbedEma  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:03:38pm

re: #564 avanti

Heck no, like most of the country, I have no major issues so far. He's only unpopular with the conservative Republican base, as would be expected with a liberal POTUS.

There are none so blind as those who refuse to see. . .

579 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:03:43pm

re: #562 Mike in Georgia

The state of Georgia decided to go after people who aren't paying
their state taxes. They identified 800 in metro Atlanta. 400 are
city of Atlanta employees. There's a message here somewhere.

Wow, that's something.

580 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:03:44pm

Gibbs just admitted that the administration found out about the AIG bonuses AFTER they had shoveled money to the company. In fact, he said he found out about it by READING NEWSPAPERS. Unfuckingbelievable.

581 Erik The Red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:03:50pm

re: #564 avanti

Heck no, like most of the country, I have no major issues so far. He's only unpopular with the conservative Republican base, as would be expected with a liberal POTUS.

Commie/Socialist

FTFY

582 jamgarr  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:05:08pm

re: #567 ludwigvanquixote

I do not see the difference actually, generally, one gets a bonus for doing a good job. A bonus is money above and beyond slary, hence the word bonus.

Money that is cleary intended to save a company is something that goes to operations - not bonuses above the cost of operations. Please tell me how it is possible that this is not seen as robbery.

Easy. The money was given to AIG without any restrictions on bonus pay. Therefore, AIG is free to use it for bonus pay (regardless of whether I or anyone else thinks it's detrimental.) If Congress didn't want the $$$$ used for bonus it could have made it so - it didn't. End of story.

583 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:05:10pm

Have to prep some stuff for dinner. Off today. A kept man.

I like it!

584 AuntAcid  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:05:12pm

re: #565 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

How do you get down off an elephant?
You don't. You get down off a goose.

and as for this high horse I'm on?

585 Mike in Georgia  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:05:16pm

re: #576 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

exactly

586 phoenixgirl  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:05:24pm

i guess next time congress hands out a big pile of dough, they should figure out what they are handing it out for first.

587 Killgore Trout  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:05:26pm

OT: Pamela over at Atlas has finally found a neoNazi counter-Jihad party (FPO) that she objects too. I guess some props are in order.

588 WriterMom  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:05:33pm

re: #577 brookly red

Yes, the bankers really performed so well!

Too big to fail!

589 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:05:39pm

re: #564 avanti

Heck no, like most of the country, I have no major issues so far. He's only unpopular with the conservative Republican base, as would be expected with a liberal POTUS.

That is not true Avanti. PUMAs are DEMS they are not for Obama. I am not far right but more center right, I am not impressed with Obama. You cannot rely on polls.

You are telling me that you have no misgivings about your decision, despite evidence that speaks to his mismanagement, coupled with his failure to stand by campaign promises?

590 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:05:41pm

re: #564 avanti

Heck no, like most of the country, I have no major issues so far. He's only unpopular with the conservative Republican base, as would be expected with a liberal POTUS.

He tries to break contracts for PR reasons and undermine the rule of law, and you have "no major issues"?! You must really like watching a clueless fool screw up by the numbers.

591 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:05:49pm

Did Geithner make a mistake in not reviewing these year-old contracts?

Gibbs TRIES TO BLAME BUSH! HE SAID THESE CONTRACTS PRE-DATE THIS ADMINISTRATION!


THAT'S NOT THE FUCKING POINT, SON.

592 kansas  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:06:11pm

re: #516 avanti

I don't blame BHO for what was once a 20 % drop, anymore then I blame GW for the bigger drop from DOW 14,000.

How about the drop after the Dems took control of the House and Senate in 2006? That have any effect?

593 Nevergiveup  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:06:12pm

re: #586 phoenixgirl

i guess next time congress hands out a big pile of dough, they should figure out what they are handing it out for first.

What an outrages notion?

594 phoenixgirl  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:06:19pm

re: #590 Dark_Falcon

He tries to break contracts for PR reasons and undermine the rule of law, and you have "no major issues"?! You must really like watching a clueless fool screw up by the numbers.

i bet he'd never dream of breaking a union contract!

595 Erik The Red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:06:24pm

re: #583 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Have to prep some stuff for dinner. Off today. A kept man.

I like it!

I hope you are making a good big pig roast.

596 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:06:30pm

re: #583 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Have to prep some stuff for dinner. Off today. A kept man.

I like it!

Now you tell me.

597 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:06:38pm

Fukitol: The official painkiller of the Obama Administration.

598 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:06:50pm

OT:
What the frak? All of a sudden my blog template has gone on the fritz and isn't displaying the posts properly. I use a 3-column blog, and all of sudden something is getting truncated and shifting the blog postings into column 1 and destroying the center column. UGH!

Any assistance would be most appreciated.

599 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:06:51pm

"We deal with things every day that are not of our own making."

HE BLAMES BUSH YET AGAIN.

600 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:07:02pm

re: #562 Mike in Georgia

The state of Georgia decided to go after people who aren't paying
their state taxes. They identified 800 in metro Atlanta. 400 are
city of Atlanta employees. There's a message here somewhere.

Heh. One of the agencies we're working to make more efficient is the Department of Revenue. Great for the law abiding taxpayer that wants their refund in a hurry. Not so enjoyable for those folks who have been depending on the bureaucracy to lose track of their delinquent tax bill.

601 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:07:06pm

re: #562 Mike in Georgia

Hey, where'd you see that?

602 Diamond Bullet  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:07:07pm

OT - Amazon.com is now shilling Obama products right on its front page. Over 3,000 items are listed. I hope folks remember things like this (and their notorious censor defense of negative reactions to Pelosi's book) when deciding whether to steer any business their way.

603 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:07:26pm

DOW only up 58+

604 phoenixgirl  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:07:40pm

does anyone know why aig would send money to european banks? is it because they were paying on a valid claim to banks they insured?

605 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:07:45pm

re: #573 Slumbering Behemoth

No! Behead those who insult the Holy Tape of Duct!
////

[Link: www.voshy.com...]

606 kansas  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:07:52pm

re: #599 MandyManners

"We deal with things every day that are not of our own making."

And we do a piss poor job of dealing with them too.

607 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:08:03pm

re: #528 ludwigvanquixote

I do not understand the comments of a number of friends here who seem angry that Obama is trying to stop the bonuses.

Federal bailout money is given with a specific purpose, not as a blank check so that the corporate officers can make themselves even more wealthy off of the public weal. There is such a thing as malfeasance.

The contracts that obligate AIG to pay these bonuses were made long before the bailout was given. The Fed threw this money at AIG and did it so fast that they missed a significant number of 'minor' details in the implementation. Now the Fed wants to come in and invalidate legal contracts because they don't like the terms. That is a VERY BAD IDEA that is just loaded with unintended consequences. The bailout money should have been withheld pending agreement from those executives to give up the bonuses as a condition of the company receiving the money. It is too late now.

608 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:08:09pm

re: #557 AuntAcid

no..."duck" as in "get the fuck down"
dodge the question "duck"...

My apologies. You were going for a funny and my pet peeve blinded me. Sorry. I will pay penance by giving an upding to the original post.

609 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:08:31pm

re: #567 ludwigvanquixote

I do not see the difference actually, generally, one gets a bonus for doing a good job. A bonus is money above and beyond slary, hence the word bonus.

Money that is cleary intended to save a company is something that goes to operations - not bonuses above the cost of operations. Please tell me how it is possible that this is not seen as robbery.

its being made to look like robbery - however, if these bonuses are in the contracts, and if the money givers, i.e. congress/treasury just chucked the billions at them without any strings attached, then they can do nothing about that in retrospect.

One other thing - I'd like to know who it is who gets these bonuses: are thye for just a few top honchos, or are they going to a lot of employes, for whom the loss would be a serious financial penalty?

And a final thing - you cannot legislate retrospectively, especially not in regard to taxation/finances. Its been tried several times by several different socialst governments: it is illegal.
PB0 is on a populist 'I'm for the little man against the big bad bank robebrs' stance here, he's not gota legal leg to stand on.

Similar, or rather, worse stuff happened here in the UK - and as much as everybody is upset, there is not one legal thing Parliament can do about it.

610 Mike in Georgia  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:08:38pm

re: #601 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

In the Atlanta paper a few days ago.

611 Erik The Red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:08:53pm

re: #589 afrocity

That is not true Avanti. PUMAs are DEMS they are not for Obama. I am not far right but more center right, I am not impressed with Obama. You cannot rely on polls.

You are telling me that you have no misgivings about your decision, despite evidence that speaks to his mismanagement, coupled with his failure to stand by campaign promises?

Avanti is 44 struck blind. Like the 3 monkeys on the wall. See no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil of 44.

612 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:08:59pm

re: #610 Mike in Georgia

Oh. Thanks.

613 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:09:06pm

re: #558 Erik The Red

He seems to get off from it. Insult away.

Insult? it is beneath me.

614 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:09:14pm
615 Lincolntf  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:09:17pm

re: #564 avanti

No major issues? Did you think that the deficit was too small under GW Bush or did you use the deficit to justify your support for Obama? He tripled it last month, just so you know.
I understand that other people on this site appreciate you being a pet Liberal, but I really can't stomach your cupidity. Every discussion leads to you mindlessly concluding that the Republicans are the Party of "No", or the Party of "Blame" or the Party of "the Rich". Whatever trope gives you an escape hatch from your own philosophy seems to fit the bill.
You're a time-suck. Go back to Kos where lily-livered equivocation and skeevy topic shifting are the norm.

616 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:09:32pm
617 debutaunt  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:09:39pm

re: #332 Slumbering Behemoth

OT: On the upside, Goodwill stores are seeing a resurgence in popularity, and reopening previously closed stores in cities near me. Maybe I should apply.

My husband was looking for some old jeans and shirts for a costume at Goodwill and found a brand new Pendleton shirt in his size for $3.00!

618 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:10:13pm

"Not taking economic advice from Dick Cheney...."

AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

619 Westward Ho  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:10:19pm

re: #571 phoenixgirl

You figured it out correctly, AIG through CDS insured an astronomical amount of debt of all the big players and in the meltdown is having to pay all its CDS buyers. That's the reason it's deemed to big to fail.

620 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:10:35pm

re: #580 MandyManners

Gibbs just admitted that the administration found out about the AIG bonuses AFTER they had shoveled money to the company. In fact, he said he found out about it by READING NEWSPAPERS. Unfuckingbelievable.

Unfuckingbelievable indeed - but only too plausible for this administration of amateurs!

621 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:10:47pm
622 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:11:00pm

"History has tried hard to teach us that we can't have good government under politicians. Now, to go and stick one at the very head of the government couldn't be wise."
- Mark Twain
New York Herald, 8/26/1876

623 MandyManners  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:11:04pm

I need to step away for a bit.

624 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:11:07pm

re: #552 brookly red

You may have noticed that I do not as a rule insult other posters, but do you really believe polls?

It's not a insult to discuss a opinion. I use 538.com.
He's been dead nuts on in digesting all the polls with a math formula that takes in polling bias, and "outers" like Rasmussen on the right and some on the left. Gallop has been right down the middle with their polling.

625 Lincolntf  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:11:18pm

re: #620 yma o hyd

These are the "smart" people we elected.

626 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:11:22pm

re: #605 Dustyvet

so. very. wrong.

627 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:11:22pm

re: #573 Slumbering Behemoth

No! Behead those who insult the Holy Tape of Duct!
////

"Use two sided DT to clean your house by putting on your feet and working
around picking up old papers, etc. or use it to attach your beer can to
the wall."

628 jimzinsocal  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:11:41pm

re: #580 MandyManners

Gibbs just admitted that the administration found out about the AIG bonuses AFTER they had shoveled money to the company. In fact, he said he found out about it by READING NEWSPAPERS. Unfuckingbelievable.

Thats part of my issue. Agree. And I have no love for AIG.

But it seems to me?
In my head? If the Feds can prove criminal cases? Go for the gusto.
Otherwise its a populist witch hunt.
They have no more right to clamp down on bonuses at this point than
clamping down on Baseball players that failed last season and were still paid by contract.
Its simply a matter of degrees really [as the Feds also have a vested interest in MLB]
IMO

629 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:11:44pm

re: #611 Erik The Red

Avanti is 44 struck blind. Like the 3 monkeys on the wall. See no evil, hear no evil and speak no evil of 44.

Yeah, it gets tiresome. I didn't come here to deal with Obamabots.

630 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:12:01pm

re: #604 phoenixgirl

does anyone know why aig would send money to european banks? is it because they were paying on a valid claim to banks they insured?

murph, gerrk, naackn! uh NO.

631 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:12:06pm

re: #623 MandyManners

I need to step away for a bit.

Just stay away from ledges.

632 hazzyday  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:12:54pm

re: #580 MandyManners

Gibbs just admitted that the administration found out about the AIG bonuses AFTER they had shoveled money to the company. In fact, he said he found out about it by READING NEWSPAPERS. Unfuckingbelievable.

That looks like it is a good example of the problems of rushing to do a bailout. And pressing the bailout through the congress without having anyone read it.

Pres Obama could just as well have blindfolded himself and thrown a dart at a lucky money wheel. Same effect.

633 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:13:02pm

re: #553 afrocity

It is a matter of hypocrisy.A bonus can represent many things to many people.
Nancy Pelosi and her abuse of airplane privileges sounds like a bonus to me
Obama eating Kobe steaks sounds like a bonus to me


Almost all of the politicians take little and big things like that. I do not mid that the POTUS (Republican or Democrat) gets a really good steak (cost @ $100) every now and then. I would mind him getting millions he didn't earn out of money that was intended for other things.

I also mind the billions that went to banker bonuses in round one. Hmmm... those banks were supposed to get credit flowing with that money... Did they?

I mean how much money is a billion really? We could provide full four year scholarships at top schools for 10,000 students for on billion. We could have actually bought 10,000 bad mortages and bailed those people out directly with that money. (I am not saying we should have, but those people definitely need the money more than the bankers, and doing so sure as hell would have put a lot more cash flow back into the economy). We could have done all sorts of things, like give people jobs to repair infrastructure. Again, I am not saying that this would have been the best use of the money, but it certainly would have been a better use.

We could have used the money for what it was intended for and given thousands of good loans to poeple and corporations that needed the cash flow!

Now consider the bonuses from round one were actually tens of billions.

NO this sucks, and it needs to stop somewhere. If I am going to get riled about my taxes going to people who didn't earn it on the one end of the spectrum, I sure as God made little green apples am going to get pissed as hell at corporate pirates who equally didn't earn it. and take a whole lot more.

634 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:13:05pm

re: #601 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Hey, where'd you see that?

Going after delinquent legislators too... :-)

635 razorbacker  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:13:17pm

re: #619 Westward Ho

You figured it out correctly, AIG through CDS insured an astronomical amount of debt of all the big players and in the meltdown is having to pay all its CDS buyers. That's the reason it's deemed to big to fail.

If it is too big to fail, could it not also be said that it is too dangerous to allow a corporation to become that big in the first place?

636 Tamron  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:13:39pm

re: #388 littleoldlady

Tamron! :-)

faraway got a 2 million dollar bonus this year so I offered to marry him*.

/*Hoping faraway is a male
//actually, for $2 million, it wouldn't really matter...

;-)


Heh -- what's the current tab on a gender-change operation?
.

637 KingKenrod  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:13:55pm

re: #604 phoenixgirl

does anyone know why aig would send money to european banks? is it because they were paying on a valid claim to banks they insured?

European banks insured their investments (think real estate) with AIG. So when these investments default, AIG has to pay the insurance claim.

This whole problem was caused by companies like AIG offering insurance for risky investments at too low a cost. If the insurance had been priced properly, we wouldn't be in this mess.

638 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:14:20pm
639 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:14:28pm

re: #605 Dustyvet

Sorry, not funny. Someone could die like that.

640 hazzyday  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:14:30pm

re: #629 afrocity

Yeah, it gets tiresome. I didn't come here to deal with Obamabots.

Every pearl has it's grain of sand.

641 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:14:36pm

re: #616 buzzsawmonkey

Do they have Eau Bama™, the economy-in-the-toilet water with the musky aroma of vintage leftism?

Ye crack me up, ye do!

:-)))

642 filetandrelease  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:15:11pm

re: #150 Fat Bastard Vegetarian
In my stint with corporate America bonuses were always a large part of compensation but based on meeting certain projections specific to my division. However if the corporation as a whole was under performing it would negatively effect bonuses for all divisions. Although if my division met or exceeded projections I would get a bonus of sorts regardless.

It took me exactly one year to learn to soft sell projections.

643 vagabond trader  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:15:14pm

re: #335 avanti

I DO NOT want to see his dainty ass doing the shing-a-ling on Ellen.

644 right_wing2  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:15:50pm

Unfortunately, it looks like the bonuses HAVE to be paid because of contracts. I wouldn't have as much problem with these massive bonuses if AIG weren't in the tank, but to continue to reward performance like we've seen from AIG is beyond insane.

645 Erik The Red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:15:54pm

re: #629 afrocity

Yeah, it gets tiresome. I didn't come here to deal with Obamabots.

You know what's funny. Avanti has some good comments. He needs to stay off the 44 threads. Much like the ID'ers need to stay off the ID threads.

646 Dustyvet  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:16:15pm

re: #629 afrocity

Yeah, it gets tiresome. I didn't come here to deal with Obamabots.

I seem to remember a movie from the 1960's "Jason and The Obamanaughts" Something about a "Golden Fleece" And Geeze are we getting fleeced...:)

/S

647 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:16:19pm

re: #602 Diamond Bullet

Fire sale? Maybe they're trying to dump stock before a possible implosion makes the items worthless.

648 kansas  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:16:47pm

I was just wondering if Avanti's comments seem like the comments of a 66 year old retired Navy man?

649 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:16:55pm

re: #629 afrocity

Yeah, it gets tiresome. I didn't come here to deal with Obamabots.

Hey, maybe he could be the liberal view point you need. /

650 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:16:56pm

re: #589 afrocity

That is not true Avanti. PUMAs are DEMS they are not for Obama. I am not far right but more center right, I am not impressed with Obama. You cannot rely on polls.

You are telling me that you have no misgivings about your decision, despite evidence that speaks to his mismanagement, coupled with his failure to stand by campaign promises?

I never expect a candidate will keep all of his promises, none do, but he's been getting more done in few months then others have done in a year.

651 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:17:37pm

re: #625 Lincolntf

These are the "smart" people we elected.

Just goes to show - these are the 'smart' people who were smart enough never to do one single day of honest work in their lives. Thats why they may be 'smart', but utterly clueless at the same time.

652 kansas  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:18:16pm

re: #650 avanti

I never expect a candidate will keep all of his promises, none do, but he's been getting more done in few months then others have done in a year.

Never mistake activity for accomplishment.

653 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:18:19pm
654 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:18:20pm

re: #648 kansas

I was just wondering if Avanti's comments seem like the comments of a 66 year old retired Navy man?

They never have to me, but in all fairness I skip over most of them now.

655 vagabond trader  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:18:50pm

re: #599 MandyManners

We must all be victims of the eeevil Booosh-Juice conspiracy before The Obama can save us.

////

656 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:18:54pm

re: #650 avanti

I never expect a candidate will keep all of his promises, none do, but he's been getting more done in few months then others have done in a year.

I am more concerned with the quality of what a POTUS does than I am with the quantity of what he gets done.

657 Erik The Red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:19:10pm

re: #650 avanti

I never expect a candidate will keep all of his promises, none do, but he's been getting more done in few months then others have done in a year.

BS. He has done NOTHING to go forward. He opens his mouth today and spends the next week trying to clean up the shit off his chin. And with that..........
GAZE

658 kansas  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:19:16pm

re: #654 turn

Probably a good idea.

659 yma o hyd  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:19:49pm

re: #632 hazzyday

That looks like it is a good example of the problems of rushing to do a bailout. And pressing the bailout through the congress without having anyone read it.

Pres Obama could just as well have blindfolded himself and thrown a dart at a lucky money wheel. Same effect.

Heh.
Thats more or less what FDR did, setting the daily $ exchange rate after he'd scrapped the gold standard ...

660 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:20:13pm

re: #629 afrocity

Yeah, it gets tiresome. I didn't come here to deal with Obamabots.

Good timing I need to take a break anyway, so you'll be able bash away at the POTUS without a heckler to question anything.

661 newsjunkie_ky  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:20:17pm

re: #607 CyanSnowHawk

The contracts that obligate AIG to pay these bonuses were made long before the bailout was given. The Fed threw this money at AIG and did it so fast that they missed a significant number of 'minor' details in the implementation. Now the Fed wants to come in and invalidate legal contracts because they don't like the terms. That is a VERY BAD IDEA that is just loaded with unintended consequences. The bailout money should have been withheld pending agreement from those executives to give up the bonuses as a condition of the company receiving the money. It is too late now.


The 0 adm. doesn't know anything about contract law, I guess.

662 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:20:37pm

re: #598 lawhawk

OT:
What the frak? All of a sudden my blog template has gone on the fritz and isn't displaying the posts properly. I use a 3-column blog, and all of sudden something is getting truncated and shifting the blog postings into column 1 and destroying the center column. UGH!

Any assistance would be most appreciated.

I don't know what that could be, I use a similar format for Cold Raptor over there and it's rendering fine. However, I did find a problem with my Headlines this morning.
Do you use the tools to manage it or do you fiddle around with the html on your own. That seems to be the easiest way for me to break mine.

663 kansas  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:20:42pm

re: #660 avanti

Good timing I need to take a break anyway, so you'll be able bash away at the POTUS without a heckler to question anything.

That would be POSUS in my book.

664 debutaunt  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:20:52pm

re: #648 kansas

I was just wondering if Avanti's comments seem like the comments of a 66 year old retired Navy man?

You too?

665 hazzyday  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:21:18pm

re: #644 right_wing2

Unfortunately, it looks like the bonuses HAVE to be paid because of contracts. I wouldn't have as much problem with these massive bonuses if AIG weren't in the tank, but to continue to reward performance like we've seen from AIG is beyond insane.

I kinda agree with "Take the bonus and get fired if you do" Government do this also, they borrow money and lock it in via legalities so that the taxpayer can't alter the spending stream EVER. By then it's too late. This is part of a bigger problem resulting from big government and big business.

666 Occasional Reader  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:21:28pm

In other news... Apple to release big news on capabilities of the next generation iPhone softwaretomorrow. It'll have cut & paste, finally, so it seems. I do hope they're wrong about it NOT having flash player capability.

667 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:21:37pm

You know, I did have semi high spirits today. But Frankly Avanti you have me down in the dumps again.

Everyday I feel like I am in Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Everyday a new Obamabot pod.
Maybe I will wake up one too someday.

I am depressed now.
What will it take to make people see that Obama is full of shit?

668 right_wing2  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:21:57pm

re: #661 newsjunkie_ky

Nor about Constitutional Law, despite the fact that the Obamessiah supposedly studied the subject.

669 Sabnen  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:22:19pm

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
(Liddy is the go-between AIG and the government, overseer in a tough position . . .)

In a letter to Geithner dated Saturday, Liddy informed Treasury that outside lawyers had informed the company that AIG had contractual obligations to make the bonus payments and could face lawsuits if it did not do so.

Liddy said in his letter that "quite frankly, AIG's hands are tied" although he said that in light of the company's current situation he found it "distasteful and difficult" to recommend going forward with the payments.

Liddy said the company had entered into the bonus agreements in early 2008 before AIG got into severe financial straits and was forced to obtain a government bailout last fall.

The large bulk of the payments at issue cover AIG Financial Products [with Offices in London], the unit of the company that sold credit default swaps, the risky contracts that caused massive losses for the insurer.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
More than $34 billion of the money went to trading partners of AIG Financial Products, the small subsidiary whose exotic derivatives brought AIG to the edge of collapse. In recent years, the firm had written massive numbers of credit-default swaps, insurance-like contracts that other companies bought as protection against the default of mortgage-backed securities. When the housing boom began to go bust, banks that had purchased the swaps demanded collateral from AIG, burying the company under a tidal wave of debt.

670 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:22:20pm

re: #650 avanti

I never expect a candidate will keep all of his promises, none do, but he's been getting more done in few months then others have done in a year.

Because destruction usually moves faster than construction.

671 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:22:46pm

re: #660 avanti

Good timing I need to take a break anyway, so you'll be able bash away at the POTUS without a heckler to question anything recite DNC talking points.

Fixed

672 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:23:09pm

re: #664 debutaunt

You too?

I was just thinking the same thing.
Maybe his sail blows both ways.
Avanti is a brand of condoms

673 kansas  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:23:11pm

re: #667 afrocity

You know, I did have semi high spirits today. But Frankly Avanti you have me down in the dumps again.

Everyday I feel like I am in Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Everyday a new Obamabot pod.
Maybe I will wake up one too someday.

I am depressed now.
What will it take to make people see that Obama is full of shit?

Anybody who is looking see's that. Buck up bucko.

674 DaddyG  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:23:13pm

re: #648 kansas

I was just wondering if Avanti's comments seem like the comments of a 66 year old retired Navy man?

My Dad has a retired army officer friend who suffered greatly from BDS and e-mailed every left talking point he could get his hands on. The millitary is a diverse group. They trend conservative and more so with commissioned officers, but they have their own opinions and POV as it should be.

"When we assumed the soldier we did not lay aside the citizen." - General George Washington 1775

675 filetandrelease  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:23:17pm

On a general note, several have suggested that a bonus is not part of the salary but rather is an award for doing well in business. That is only partly true, most corporate executives have compensations that are complex by general salary standards and depend on some sort of a bonus struction in order to recieve what they concider fair pay. Otherwise they would work elsewhere.

676 Dianna  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:23:39pm

re: #635 razorbacker

If it is too big to fail, could it not also be said that it is too dangerous to allow a corporation to become that big in the first place?

That's the logic behind trust-busting, yes.
I won't deny a sense of satisfaction, but I think this idea of punishing people for working - even if we're irate with their employers - is a bad, bad idea.

677 turn  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:23:46pm

re: #666 Occasional Reader

You in Charles' head or what?

678 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:23:53pm

re: #669 Sabnen

[Link: news.yahoo.com...]
(Liddy is the go-between AIG and the government, overseer in a tough position . . .)

In a letter to Geithner dated Saturday, Liddy informed Treasury that outside lawyers had informed the company that AIG had contractual obligations to make the bonus payments and could face lawsuits if it did not do so.

Liddy said in his letter that "quite frankly, AIG's hands are tied" although he said that in light of the company's current situation he found it "distasteful and difficult" to recommend going forward with the payments.

Liddy said the company had entered into the bonus agreements in early 2008 before AIG got into severe financial straits and was forced to obtain a government bailout last fall.

The large bulk of the payments at issue cover AIG Financial Products [with Offices in London], the unit of the company that sold credit default swaps, the risky contracts that caused massive losses for the insurer.

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]
More than $34 billion of the money went to trading partners of AIG Financial Products, the small subsidiary whose exotic derivatives brought AIG to the edge of collapse. In recent years, the firm had written massive numbers of credit-default swaps, insurance-like contracts that other companies bought as protection against the default of mortgage-backed securities. When the housing boom began to go bust, banks that had purchased the swaps demanded collateral from AIG, burying the company under a tidal wave of debt.

So, if the bonuses are going to the people who gave the company big losses, either they should be able to find a loophole to deny them, OR it should come out of the pockets of the people who wrote a contract that allows bonuses for losses.

679 phoenixgirl  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:24:26pm

re: #637 KingKenrod

European banks insured their investments (think real estate) with AIG. So when these investments default, AIG has to pay the insurance claim.

This whole problem was caused by companies like AIG offering insurance for risky investments at too low a cost. If the insurance had been priced properly, we wouldn't be in this mess.

that's what i thought

680 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:24:32pm
681 Westward Ho  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:24:33pm

The tone and tenor of this thread would have been completely different if Charles had posted an article about the UAW getting bonuses with the GM bail out money.

682 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:24:34pm

re: #667 afrocity

Just keep showing people the right way, and eventually they will look for a path less covered in shit, and there you will be.

683 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:24:40pm

re: #671 Dark_Falcon

Fixed

I know. I feel like I am on ABC blog again.
Who needs someone to defend Obama every time we post something?
I left The Confluence because I respected their right to be liberals without listening to my conservative views.

684 Dianna  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:25:47pm

re: #650 avanti

I never expect a candidate will keep all of his promises, none do, but he's been getting more done in few months then others have done in a year.

And that is the problem in a nutshell.

685 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:26:02pm

re: #667 afrocity

You know, I did have semi high spirits today. But Frankly Avanti you have me down in the dumps again.

Everyday I feel like I am in Invasion of the Body Snatchers
Everyday a new Obamabot pod.
Maybe I will wake up one too someday.

I am depressed now.
What will it take to make people see that Obama is full of shit?

Seeing something on the TV about Obama other than the MSM giving Obama head.

686 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:26:05pm

re: #682 Ford_Prefect

Just keep showing people the right way, and eventually they will look for a path less covered in shit, and there you will be.

I think you meant that as a compliment/

687 albusteve  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:26:12pm

re: #650 avanti

I never expect a candidate will keep all of his promises, none do, but he's been getting more done in few months then others have done in a year.

and every bit of is wrong and bad for the country

688 BigAl  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:27:24pm

People who voted for Obama will be in denial for some time (at least externally). But when they vote again in 2012 many, not all, will realize and amend their mistake. This BS artist was never qualified to be Commander-in-Chief.

689 afrocity  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:28:04pm

re: #688 BigAl

Everyone except Avanti.

690 Dianna  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:29:08pm

re: #665 hazzyday

I kinda agree with "Take the bonus and get fired if you do" Government do this also, they borrow money and lock it in via legalities so that the taxpayer can't alter the spending stream EVER. By then it's too late. This is part of a bigger problem resulting from big government and big business.

You have got to be kidding me.

Their contracts, and the majority of their compensation, is tied up in those bonuses. It improves the economy how, precisely, to ruin people who were working to fulfill a contract?

691 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:31:02pm

re: #624 avanti

It's not a insult to discuss a opinion. I use 538.com.
He's been dead nuts on in digesting all the polls with a math formula that takes in polling bias, and "outers" like Rasmussen on the right and some on the left. Gallop has been right down the middle with their polling.

Oh, I am so sorry I did not understand. But for the finest in un-biased data, I would recommend that you send your question, the results that you wish to obtain & a postal money order to; Brookly Research & Bail Bonds LLC. A very scientifical type poll will be conducted (si habla espanoile) over a broad segment of the local gentry including the incarcerated & undocumented and the results that you desire will be forwarded within 72 hours, including my very personal guarantee of accuracy. Thank you.

692 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:32:14pm

re: #690 Dianna

You have got to be kidding me.

Their contracts, and the majority of their compensation, is tied up in those bonuses. It improves the economy how, precisely, to ruin people who were working to fulfill a contract?

It doesn't. It does accomplish Obama's objective: Directing public anger at capitalism, undermining America's financial underpinning and generally preparing for a Great Leap Leftwards. Remember: Cloward-Piven.

693 right_wing2  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:32:38pm

re: #650 avanti

I never expect a candidate will keep all of his promises, none do, but he's been getting more done in few months then others have done in a year.

You missed a few words '...he's been getting more done in a few months to destroy every institution which made America great than others have in a year.'

694 jimzinsocal  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:32:55pm

Im also puzzled by the obvious lack of oversight.
Who here would lend yet another 40B to a company you own 80% of and not require cash forecasts and a complete list of payables?
This shouldnt have been a surprise that becomes simply a bogeyman
to point fingers at...

695 Dianna  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:33:55pm

re: #692 Dark_Falcon

It doesn't. It does accomplish Obama's objective: Directing public anger at capitalism, undermining America's financial underpinning and generally preparing for a Great Leap Leftwards. Remember: Cloward-Piven.

I do.

I'm wondering about many of the rest of us.

When did we become populists? Don't we know better?

696 lawhawk  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:34:22pm

re: #598 lawhawk

Problem appears to have resolved itself.. only in FF3x btw... IE was apparently not affected. Curious. Very curious.

697 Sabnen  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:34:56pm

re: #678 Kosh's Shadow

Yes, I tend to agree with you, unfortunately, I think there are no loopholes to exploit here or AIG counsel would have found it. Having their bosses pay the bonus money out of pocket for their excessive risk would be a good idea too, but alas I don't think that's happening either.

698 Bill K.  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:36:27pm

By bailing out AIG the Feds are allowing irresponsible behavior by the company's directors to continue. Why are they now surprised and appalled that this is so? And why is everyone directing their outrage at AIG instead the the Federal government which insists these deadbeats must be saved at any cost?

The plain and simple matter is that no private corporations are "too big to fail".

699 avanti  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:38:16pm

re: #648 kansas

I was just wondering if Avanti's comments seem like the comments of a 66 year old retired Navy man?


I don't now how to dispute this particular nurither issue without giving up some personal info. I could scan my DD 214,but you'd say it was a forgery. I do have a my space page that been up for a while, but that could be a fake too. At least speculate that I'm younger rather then older.

700 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:38:25pm

re: #695 Dianna

I do.

I'm wondering about many of the rest of us.

When did we become populists? Don't we know better?

We didn't. Obama had his political education under a bunch of leftist rabble-rousers, and that fact is reflected in his every action. His fondest desire is to turn the American people against American principles and convince them that they should put all their trust in the government. He hates his nation and it shows.

701 Sabnen  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:41:28pm

re: #679 phoenixgirl

While AIG was initially on the hook for $2 Trillion, it is currently down to only $1.6 Trillion outstanding. Since our government owns an 80% share of AIG right now, the tax-payer is on the hook for a large part of that $1.6.

702 Westward Ho  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:41:29pm

re: #698 Bill K.

AIG has fucked up big time with this, another bailout is politically incomprehensible.

703 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:42:55pm
704 hazzyday  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:44:21pm

re: #690 Dianna

You have got to be kidding me.

Their contracts, and the majority of their compensation, is tied up in those bonuses. It improves the economy how, precisely, to ruin people who were working to fulfill a contract?

CEO's are a dime a dozen. They overinflated their value to the economy. They were able to do that because they were large and able to monopolize a part of the information structure in business to benefit themselves. Governments role is to prevent them from doing that to avoid corrupting the process of capitalism. In working to fulfill those contracts they ruined a lot of other lives. It improves the economy for every regular citizen to get rid of the economic thinking that goes on in a place like AIG. The government is at fault here also. I am not sure how best it is for government to be responsible.

705 debutaunt  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:45:44pm

re: #704 hazzyday

CEO's are a dime a dozen. They overinflated their value to the economy. They were able to do that because they were large and able to monopolize a part of the information structure in business to benefit themselves. Governments role is to prevent them from doing that to avoid corrupting the process of capitalism. In working to fulfill those contracts they ruined a lot of other lives. It improves the economy for every regular citizen to get rid of the economic thinking that goes on in a place like AIG. The government is at fault here also. I am not sure how best it is for government to be responsible.

The bankruptcy process should have been used.

706 hazzyday  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:46:40pm

re: #692 Dark_Falcon

It doesn't. It does accomplish Obama's objective: Directing public anger at capitalism, undermining America's financial underpinning and generally preparing for a Great Leap Leftwards. Remember: Cloward-Piven.

These businesses are too big. They don't need government cloward stuff. They need to be regulated so that they are best at a smaller size. The sooner AIG becomes 20 smaller AIG's the better.

707 Dianna  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:47:17pm

re: #700 Dark_Falcon

We didn't. Obama had his political education under a bunch of leftist rabble-rousers, and that fact is reflected in his every action. His fondest desire is to turn the American people against American principles and convince them that they should put all their trust in the government. He hates his nation and it shows.

Yes, but I'm reading some comments that share a number of the premises of Obama's subtext.

708 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:49:00pm
709 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:49:12pm

re: #706 hazzyday

These businesses are too big. They don't need government cloward stuff. They need to be regulated so that they are best at a smaller size. The sooner AIG becomes 20 smaller AIG's the better.

I take your point but I need to point out that when I cite Cloward-Piven, I do so to support a contention that Obama doesn't really want to save AIG. He wants to use the crisis to push the country to the left.

710 gringo69  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:49:23pm

Rush was saying this is big ruse! Obama acting mad and enraged about the AIG bonuses. The big money peolple are Obama's highest campaign donors. This is more of the payback program that got him elected. He knew the bonuses were part of a contract. I wonder how much money Obama got from AIG during the election. HHMMMM?

711 kansas  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:49:49pm

re: #699 avanti

I don't now how to dispute this particular nurither issue without giving up some personal info. I could scan my DD 214,but you'd say it was a forgery. I do have a my space page that been up for a while, but that could be a fake too. At least speculate that I'm younger rather then older.

What's a nurither? Yeah, I speculate you are younger than 66. That and being a veteran.

712 Tamron  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:49:57pm

re: #675 filetandrelease

On a general note, several have suggested that a bonus is not part of the salary but rather is an award for doing well in business. That is only partly true, most corporate executives have compensations that are complex by general salary standards and depend on some sort of a bonus struction in order to recieve what they concider fair pay. Otherwise they would work elsewhere.


--So the bonuses are a bribe, to keep them where they are and doing what they've been doing?

Thanks. Now I understand, and it's all better.
.

713 Dianna  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:50:49pm

re: #704 hazzyday

CEO's are a dime a dozen. They overinflated their value to the economy. They were able to do that because they were large and able to monopolize a part of the information structure in business to benefit themselves. Governments role is to prevent them from doing that to avoid corrupting the process of capitalism. In working to fulfill those contracts they ruined a lot of other lives. It improves the economy for every regular citizen to get rid of the economic thinking that goes on in a place like AIG. The government is at fault here also. I am not sure how best it is for government to be responsible.

I'm sorry, but I somehow suspect that you're picturing every one of these execs as Scrooge MacDuck, or something. Honestly, I've known some very senior people (very slightly) in the Workers' Comp field. They may make a lot of money, once the bonuses come in, but you couldn't pay me enough to tolerate the nonsense they tolerate on a daily basis.

I see a lot of broad-brush populism in these comments. I have some problems with AIG, but it's not the bonuses that have me upset. Not at all.

That's fulfilling contracts, and that's fine.

The beginning bail-out, that's where I have a problem.

714 Dianna  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:51:45pm

re: #706 hazzyday

These businesses are too big. They don't need government cloward stuff. They need to be regulated so that they are best at a smaller size. The sooner AIG becomes 20 smaller AIG's the better.

Oh, boy.

Let's retool the Sherman Anti-Trust act? Sure.

I just really want the government saying how big a company can be. I just long for that.

715 hazzyday  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:52:15pm

re: #709 Dark_Falcon

I take your point but I need to point out that when I cite Cloward-Piven, I do so to support a contention that Obama doesn't really want to save AIG. He wants to use the crisis to push the country to the left.

I am in perfect agreement with you on this. He will take a manufactured or unexpected crisis to move that way. As TFK pointed out follow the money.

I think the push back to him is to down size big government and big business.

716 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:52:20pm
717 Sabnen  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:53:02pm

re: #698 Bill K.

By bailing out AIG the Feds are allowing irresponsible behavior by the company's directors to continue. Why are they now surprised and appalled that this is so? And why is everyone directing their outrage at AIG instead the the Federal government which insists these deadbeats must be saved at any cost?

The plain and simple matter is that no private corporations are "too big to fail".

Unfortunately, if AIG is allowed to fail and not pay its' obligations, the world economy would tank. They are everywhere and insuring everything. They are one of those linchpin companies at the center of this whole fiasco. We are by no means out of the woods in this financial crisis and to kill them off would be to set us back to October '08 when each day brought us a new bank failure or merger, except it wouldn't be confined to the US, it would be in Europe too.

718 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:53:08pm

re: #705 debutaunt

The bankruptcy process should have been used.

Bankruptcy is such a harsh word, it almost sound like failure... please from now on say the liberally correct term, "grossly un-funded". Ahhhh, does that not feel better already.

719 kansas  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:53:13pm

It's Monday afternoon. Time to fix................................the Health Care System.!

720 Dianna  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:53:57pm

re: #710 gringo69

Rush was saying this is big ruse! Obama acting mad and enraged about the AIG bonuses. The big money peolple are Obama's highest campaign donors. This is more of the payback program that got him elected. He knew the bonuses were part of a contract. I wonder how much money Obama got from AIG during the election. HHMMMM?

I neither know, nor care. I care about the ease with which normally reasonable people suddenly turn into lemmings when resentment can be whipped up.

I can't believe so many of us are falling into that populist pit.

721 Dianna  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:55:06pm

re: #715 hazzyday

I am in perfect agreement with you on this. He will take a manufactured or unexpected crisis to move that way. As TFK pointed out follow the money.

I think the push back to him is to down size big government and big business.

I think that's what Obama wants.

722 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:57:15pm
723 irongrampa  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:57:21pm

re: #627 Dustyvet


Also works quite well affixing small children in place.

724 hazzyday  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:57:59pm

re: #714 Dianna

Oh, boy.

Let's retool the Sherman Anti-Trust act? Sure.

I just really want the government saying how big a company can be. I just long for that.

Monopolies are self interested economic units that are opponents of business freedoms. Even the baby bells are too big. A consumer needs these companies to compete. AIG was non competitive and had monopoly hooks into it's industry which is proven by the need to bail it out.

Governments do say how big companies can be. Companies get past that by going multi national. We need to be able to compete against government supported businesses in France, Saudi, and Japan, but also the little guy shouldn't be at an information disadvantage against AIG. Government has a role in capitalism. It's to identify and keep markets effective.

725 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:58:01pm

re: #719 kansas

It's Monday afternoon. Time to fix................................the Health Care System.!


THANK YOU. the DOW was up following the overseas markets around 2%

Say 0-care, see 100+ point drop. (deleted, deleted, and deleted with criminal intent)

726 hazzyday  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 12:59:00pm

re: #716 Iron Fist

Someone could probably make a killing with a business named "Kick a Democrat today"

727 razorbacker  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:00:10pm

re: #675 filetandrelease

On a general note, several have suggested that a bonus is not part of the salary but rather is an award for doing well in business. That is only partly true, most corporate executives have compensations that are complex by general salary standards and depend on some sort of a bonus struction in order to recieve what they concider fair pay. Otherwise they would work elsewhere.

I've no problem with that. Indeed, I believe it.

Given the financial meltdown, where, exactly, are these fine folks going to go in their field?

Or are they so all-around awesome that they command top dollar whatever they set their minds to do?

728 hazzyday  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:02:47pm

re: #717 Sabnen

Unfortunately, if AIG is allowed to fail and not pay its' obligations, the world economy would tank. They are everywhere and insuring everything. They are one of those linchpin companies at the center of this whole fiasco. We are by no means out of the woods in this financial crisis and to kill them off would be to set us back to October '08 when each day brought us a new bank failure or merger, except it wouldn't be confined to the US, it would be in Europe too.

I agree with this also. We are not in normal economic circumstances. Pulling the largest tree out by its roots might remove so much dirt as to weaken the dam behind the tree. We just don't know.

729 razorbacker  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:03:31pm

re: #726 hazzyday

Someone could probably make a killing with a business named "Kick a Democrat today"

And someone else could make a smaller killing with a business named, "We'll clean the crap off your shoes when you're done."

730 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:05:15pm

He can vow all he wants, but I don't think Barry is gonna have much luck getting the bonuses rescinded. They were negotiated long before AIG ran into trouble and long before the government came on board, and are legally binding contracts between the company and it's employees. Unless he can find some legal leverage to use against the contracts themselves, he's tilting at windmills.

I'm sure GM would love to negate it's retirement benefits for it's huge pile of retirees, too. But that's not gonna happen, either, unless a court does it for them during bankruptcy proceedings, the consequences of which for the company are far worse than any savings.

All Barry's gonna do is rack up additional legal costs, courts costs and penalties, both on the government's behalf while filing against AIG, and ultimately on AIG's behalf while AIG is under government stewardship. I'm sure there are a horde or two of yapping morons cheering him on, but this idea goes straight to the heart of the Rule of Law and rips it out of society's chest. It's profoundly dangerous.

Or just stupid. The most likely result is the courts telling Barry to shove it.

731 filetandrelease  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:09:33pm

re: #712 Tamron

--So the bonuses are a bribe, to keep them where they are and doing what they've been doing?

Thanks. Now I understand, and it's all better.
.

Sadly, that is true in a way. Except the all better part.

Although you miss my point, excuss me for my lack of clarity. An effort to simplify, executives negotiate boneses as part of their compensation package, you can't take it away so easy any more than you could adjust an hourly workers hourly wage after he put in 40 hours.

732 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:09:45pm

re: #710 gringo69

Rush was saying this is big ruse! Obama acting mad and enraged about the AIG bonuses. The big money peolple are Obama's highest campaign donors. This is more of the payback program that got him elected. He knew the bonuses were part of a contract. I wonder how much money Obama got from AIG during the election. HHMMMM?

I don't know about contributions, but there's merit to this argument in the sense that Barry gets to play populist hero, while his underlings - in this case, his AG - take on the role of bad guy when they go public with the news that there's nothing the boss can legally do about AIG's bonus agreements.

Personally, I think it'll blow up in his face. Populist sentiment is notoriously fickle.

733 filetandrelease  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:11:17pm

re: #727 razorbacker

I've no problem with that. Indeed, I believe it.

Given the financial meltdown, where, exactly, are these fine folks going to go in their field?

Or are they so all-around awesome that they command top dollar whatever they set their minds to do?


Some for sure, most probably not. Good executive jobs are in short supply these days just like other jobs.

734 Dark_Falcon  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:11:49pm

re: #730 SixDegrees

He can vow all he wants, but I don't think Barry is gonna have much luck getting the bonuses rescinded. They were negotiated long before AIG ran into trouble and long before the government came on board, and are legally binding contracts between the company and it's employees. Unless he can find some legal leverage to use against the contracts themselves, he's tilting at windmills.

I'm sure GM would love to negate it's retirement benefits for it's huge pile of retirees, too. But that's not gonna happen, either, unless a court does it for them during bankruptcy proceedings, the consequences of which for the company are far worse than any savings.

All Barry's gonna do is rack up additional legal costs, courts costs and penalties, both on the government's behalf while filing against AIG, and ultimately on AIG's behalf while AIG is under government stewardship. I'm sure there are a horde or two of yapping morons cheering him on, but this idea goes straight to the heart of the Rule of Law and rips it out of society's chest. It's profoundly dangerous.

Or just stupid. The most likely result is the courts telling Barry to shove it.

From your lips to God's ears. I have to go lie down now. I've got the flu and need to rest.

735 unreconstructed rebel  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:12:29pm

re: #730 SixDegrees

Yup. And did anyone notice how quickly Punxsutawney Market ran back in its hole today after seeing Barry's shadow?

When is that man going to learn to shut up?

736 brookly red  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:13:27pm

re: #726 hazzyday

Someone could probably make a killing with a business named "Kick a Democrat today"

Excuse you, but the service that you elude to, is temporally suspending operations pending the outcome of the honorable Mr. Spitzer's unfortunate case... however Lick -a Lib has extended it's opperating hours to help with the increased demand. Thank you.

737 cpuller  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:13:57pm

How much are the people in his administration being paid? Let them take pay cuts, too. I'm not big on these guys getting bonuses, but isn't it a little hypocritical for Obama to be outraged about millions in bonuses, when he just wasted about 1.4 trillion dollars?

738 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:14:26pm
739 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:19:53pm

re: #737 cpuller

How much are the people in his administration being paid? Let them take pay cuts, too. I'm not big on these guys getting bonuses, but isn't it a little hypocritical for Obama to be outraged about millions in bonuses, when he just wasted about 1.4 trillion dollars?

A very good point. Just last week, Pelosi decided to duck the issue of automatic Congressional pay raises, instead of doing the right thing and pulling them off the table during this time of economic duress.

740 Tamron  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:21:07pm

re: #731 filetandrelease

Sadly, that is true in a way. Except the all better part.

Although you miss my point, excuss me for my lack of clarity. An effort to simplify, executives negotiate boneses as part of their compensation package, you can't take it away so easy any more than you could adjust an hourly workers hourly wage after he put in 40 hours.


Sorry, please don't take my comments as personal aimed at you. I was just referring to the snarky system, which you did point out quite well. You're doing just fine....
.

741 kansas  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:23:41pm

WTF? Dow closed down. 100 points down in the last hour. Too much Obama.

742 razorbacker  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:23:43pm

re: #738 Iron Fist

When I worked for WallyWorld way back in the late '70s, they weren't the global giant that they now are. Sam Walton didn't have the mega-bucks to pay us genius-types that had chosen to work for him. So we were, by industry standards, underpaid.

What he had was stock. So he gave that to us. Free. That's why you now find little old ladies who have never had any job more stressful than running a cash register (and that is stressful enough, believe you me) retiring as millionaires and better.

My daughter tells me that isn't the way it works, now.

743 SixDegrees  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:25:08pm

re: #741 kansas

WTF? Dow closed down. 100 points down in the last hour. Too much Obama.

Raising the idea that under his Administration, contracts and the rule of law will become meaningless isn't exactly the sort of news that inspires the marketplace. Unless you're selling ammo or dried beans.

744 Emerald  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:31:21pm

re: #742 razorbacker

When I worked for WallyWorld way back in the late '70s, they weren't the global giant that they now are. Sam Walton didn't have the mega-bucks to pay us genius-types that had chosen to work for him. So we were, by industry standards, underpaid.

What he had was stock. So he gave that to us. Free. That's why you now find little old ladies who have never had any job more stressful than running a cash register (and that is stressful enough, believe you me) retiring as millionaires and better.

My daughter tells me that isn't the way it works, now.


No, it's not. I worked there for a bit when I was in school. They matched stock purchases dollar-for-dollar, IIRC. I love to annoy Wal-Mart haters when they go on about how "unfair" they are to workers by pointing out that I was full-time, had benefits, got stock at a discount, they worked around my class and exam schedule, I was paid more than minimum wage and got overtime when I covered for one of the inevitable no-shows. None of those were true at the work-study program at the liberal colleges. They never had a comeback.

745 itellu3times  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:47:37pm

re: #3 Oingo Boingo

There is no try. There is only do... or no do.

Miyagi, out.

Yoda.

Sorry I missed this thread, it's my favorite soapbox these days (see my rantings on last night's late thread), but I think your quote about sums it up anyway.

746 justabill  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:51:37pm

re: #3 Oingo Boingo

There is no try. There is only do... or no do.

Miyagi, out.

I think you mixing up your wise short dudes. That sounds like Yoda to me...

747 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:53:47pm
748 UFO TOFU  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 1:56:13pm

Interesting article on Federal Home Loan Banks.

749 tradewind  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 2:04:56pm

As Spongebob would say, to BHO:
Well Good Luck With That

750 FredWM  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 2:11:35pm

So the Obama administration is Shocked, Shocked I tell you, that some of the TARP money that was given to AIG with no strings attached will be used for such awful purposes as fulfilling its prior contracts! What is the world coming too?

For the benefit of the naive I'll explain the situation: Obama wants to be out ahead of the outrage that his 14 quadtrillion dollar deficit is generating with the public.

751 Eclectic Infidel  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 2:41:32pm

re: #33 Sharmuta

Not a single one of those assholes up on this Hill has said they'd take a pay cut- not even as a publicity stunt. They can ask us to go with out, but damned if they'd put their money where their mouth is. It's not even their money- it's ours!

We've lost control of our government. This is proof positive.

752 Right Brain  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 2:53:54pm

The AIG staff should get a large bonus for scamming the American taxpayers out of so much money and then paying off their debts largely in secret.

Hats off to them.

753 itellu3times  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 2:56:07pm

re: #2 Sharmuta

How about blocking CONGRESSIONAL bonuses?!

I've never heard of a congressional bonus.

The specifics of just what a bonus is, and should be, are important here.

754 soxfan4life  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 2:58:40pm

re: #739 SixDegrees

A very good point. Just last week, Pelosi decided to duck the issue of automatic Congressional pay raises, instead of doing the right thing and pulling them off the table during this time of economic duress.

Nancy Pelosi and the right thing.HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

755 irish rose  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 3:03:17pm

What can be said about this that hasn't already been said?

It's happy hour, and I'm happy that I can actually afford to add a dill pickle spear to my bloody mary.

Cheers.

756 cgrow  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 3:42:10pm

This is a terrible PR move. If Obama fails to stop the bonuses from being paid (and haven't they already been, as of Sunday?), he will effectively prove that he has no power over the 'corrupt financial institutions'. It will weaken his image substantially, IMO.

757 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 3:53:11pm

Ok Everyone-

Was tied up much of the afternoon so am very late to this dance. As Charles knows from my "contact" correspondence this situation frosts me. I am almost a libertarian when it comes to free markets. I was also taught table manners as a child - AND - the Difference between a TABLE and a TOILET.
AIG is a BANKRUPT CORPORATE ENTITY in reality, if not in legality, from the day they got "TARP" Money and became 80% Government Owned. Truthfully, the name should be changed to "AGI" - American Government Insurance. Bankrupt entities do not pay bonuses - they pay "CLAIMS." Having thrice in my life worked for firms that went out of business I can tell all 'y'all all about it. AIG employees are effectively preferred creditors - nothing more and certainly nothing less. This discussion now turns back to the subject of "manners" if you will. When you take the King's Coin, it is generally NOT advisable to spit in the Sovereign's Eye. A sharp management would have headed this off with some plan for deferred compensation. I am aware that the Bonus situation represents a small fraction of ONE PERCENT of the TARP MONEY. I am also aware that in the last major "Bailout" (Actually a Loan Guarantee) - CHRYSLER - everyone from Lee Iacocca to the Janitor took somewhat of a "haircut" for about three years. It may be a small thing money wise - so was his Britannic Majesty George III's Tax on Tea - sometimes "the rest is history." I think what we have in this discussion may be a misunderstanding of what constitutes a legitimate Private Enterprise versus a de facto Government Entity. Discussion?

-S-

758 TedStriker  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 3:56:14pm

re: #483 WriterMom

I'm posting this again, just for the puke affect.

New York Magazine writer asks: How Long Has It Been Since A First Couple "WANTED" Each Other?

Maybe it's just me, but I see the Obamas' marriage much in the same light as the Clintons...political power and expediency trumps all.

Seriously, I see WAB as being in the same mold as Hillary...she's just as power hungry as Her Thighness, just give her time.

759 Sheepdogess  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 4:18:34pm

The Obama Amatuer Hour
24/7

760 Sheepdogess  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 5:05:59pm

PIMF - Amateur

761 Threnody  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 5:42:31pm

This is about as cynical and self-serving a tactic as I have seen; it's pure scapegoating and diversion. This is Obama's "Wag the Dog," and if it works, then it spells extremely hard times for any businessman, good or bad.

762 Mad Prophet Ludwig  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 5:48:36pm

Several of my friends here have pointed out to me that the bonuses were promised contractually long before the bailout and that congress were the ones to actually F*d this up because they rushed to pass the bill and did not carefully enough specify that the bail out money was supposed to be used for the bailout.

If it is a matter of bad contract law, I here you and revoking the contracts retroactively may well be a terrible thing from a legal perspective.

If that is the case, and I am not going to argue with you, I have a question and a more serious complaint.

The question is how is a promised bonus in your contract something different than salary? I mean I could see a clause that says if we have x profits, then you get y bonus, but if the company went under, then how can this possibly work? If the bail out money itself is being counted as profits from which these guys get a cut, one might argue that this does not count as profits and we circumvent the legal issue. What am I missing?

As to the main complaint...

Who was it who demanded a blank check for round one? Who demanded that congress not spend a huge time mulling it over too much, or else we would face the apocalypse? We all know it was W.
W. is not to blame alone for this - I'm getting to the congress, and Obama in a second.

As to the congress itself, if my fellow lizard's analysis is accurate, and I do not doubt them, then let's really look at this.

They gave a blank check to ethically shallow wolves and assumed on faith that those wolves would act honorably for a change. Hmmm... this is not failing business 101. This is failing basic sense 101. Are they truly that incompetent? Perhaps, but I can not believe that all of those people in congress are that stupid. Rather, I would believe that they are that cynical and are expecting their paybacks in time. This applies to both parties. They are both guilty. For all of the blaming of the GOP vs. blaming of the Dems, I blame the GOP more - not because they are more guilty than the Dems, but because they are the ones who should know better. I blame the drunk rabbi more than the drunk sailor for being drunk. The GOP were supposed to be the ones who understood these things.

Now we have round two. Round two looks indistinguishable from round one. It just has different actors. O and the Dems are no different. They both have screwed the pooch. They continue to screw the pooch.

In the interim, whether or not it is populist, the fact of the matter is that our gov't not only opened the henhouse to the wolves, but put the hens into the wolves mouths. As to the wolves themselves - please, they do not even have the shame to pretend to be anything else and they are still laughing all the way to the bank with my money.

I am pissed and I am going to stay pissed.

763 grahamski  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 5:48:57pm

re: #68 avanti

Yes, and BHO did. He's suggested a lot of rules to limit them in new bills, but getting both sides to give up the pork is probably a bit hopeless. Some earmarks are good, it's part of congress's job to fund worthy projects for their constituents, but I'll bet they fight the rules to reduce the pork from the worthy.

This is a crock of shit....
Face it, your boy obama is a lying scumbag.

764 [deleted]  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 6:08:05pm
765 christophermdavis  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 6:16:29pm

Barry's problem is that the time has come to stop talking, and start acting. And that is something he's never done in his career.

766 jimzinsocal  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 6:41:15pm

Here is the problem. As pissed as we might be with AIG?
Lets not get into the habit of undoing law as a distraction

Snip/WSJ

But how likely is a “double the damages” scenario? Apparently it has something to do with Connecticut law. We wanted to find out ourselves, so we called the good folks up at Wiggin and Dana in Connecticut and chatted wtih Lawrence Peikes, an employment lawyer in the firm’s Stamford office.
Peikes who is not involved in the matter, confirmed AIG’s assessment of the legal landscape, saying that a Connecticut statute — the Connecticut Wage Act — generally speaking allows an employee to recover double damages and attorneys fees where an employer withholds wages and the employee can show bad faith or unreasonableness. Peikes says retention bonuses may well be considered “wages” under the statute, and a situation in which “a company knows it is contractually bound to make a payment, but fails to do so” might well constitute bad faith.

767 Alone in NY  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 7:33:22pm

Dear Mr. President:

Can you spell "Contract Clause" or "Constitution"?

768 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 7:35:14pm

re: #762 LudwigVanQuixote

Ludwig "V-Q" -

SEE - My 757 - Bankrupt Entities Pay CLAIMS not BONUSES. That is all.

-S-

769 Dr. Shalit  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 7:40:04pm

re: #767 Alone in NY

Dear Mr. President:

Can you spell "Contract Clause" or "Constitution"?

Alone -

See Article 1, Section 8 with reference to "uniform laws, re: bankruptcy." Granted, AIG/"AGI" has been granted special treatment. Nevertheless - they ARE BANKRUPT.

-S-

770 Sunlight  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 8:08:43pm

Aren't "bonuses" in that business basically like "commissions"? Contracted payment? And didn't Candidate Obama tell us during the election that he is an attorney? And supposedly knows that contracts are the basis of our entire society? What is wrong with these people?

771 LieSeeker  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 8:49:52pm

So Obama shouldn't have conducted bailout without preconditions. Too late now.

772 leww37334  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:01:37pm

If AIG employees are to be denied their rightful compensation for their work, then why are we paying GM employees, didn't their company take a bailout too?

And if Obama can break the AIG contract, why can't he break the GM UAW contract?

773 Mosse  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:13:45pm

AIG is sharia-compliant. The first of our bail-out funds they invested were in Deutsche Bank, Societe Generale (Fr), and Barcley's. All also sharia-compliant.

774 Syrah  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 9:28:22pm

re: #648 kansas

I was just wondering if Avanti's comments seem like the comments of a 66 year old retired Navy man?

Military service does not make someone a conservative.

See Jimmy Carter, John Kerry and even Markos "Kos" Moulitsas.

I would imagine that most that go in come out with much the same world view that they went in with.

775 She Said  Mon, Mar 16, 2009 10:23:35pm

Just for a little perspective:

[Link: www.forbes.com...]

A prescient article written in 2003. If only they had heeded the "This track ends in 200 feet sign"

776 jimzinsocal  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:55:54am

What a bunch we have in DC.
Read at FOX News.

Dodd now calling for some stiff tax on bonuses.
When in fact part of the stimulus plan that he wrote protected
contracts made with employees with a retention bonus.

So in the end...also see the Post article this morning...none of this was a surprise to Treasury and the checks will go out after all....despite all the fake outrage from the Administration yesterday.

What a sham/

777 jimzinsocal  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:59:53am

The Post article ^^

[Link: www.washingtonpost.com...]

778 azul93gt  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 12:52:53pm

To all those that are going to be sucked into B. Hussein & Chucky Schumer's class warfare charade what happens if the Dems are successful with this precedent of forcing the employees to give back their pay? Are your severance packages the next thing to go?


This article has been archived.
Comments are closed.

Jump to top

Create a PageThis is the LGF Pages posting bookmarklet. To use it, drag this button to your browser's bookmark bar, and title it 'LGF Pages' (or whatever you like). Then browse to a site you want to post, select some text on the page to use for a quote, click the bookmarklet, and the Pages posting window will appear with the title, text, and any embedded video or audio files already filled in, ready to go.
Or... you can just click this button to open the Pages posting window right away.
Last updated: 2016-01-01 10:29 am PST
LGF User's Guide RSS Feeds Tweet

Help support Little Green Footballs!

Subscribe now for ad-free access!Register and sign in to a free LGF account before subscribing, and your ad-free access will be automatically enabled.

Donate with
PayPal
Square Cash Shop at amazon
as an LGF Associate!
Recent PagesClick to refresh
Trump Is Uniting Europe! As our national nightmare continues, here is more proof that Donald Trump is emerging as an enemy to the interests of the United States, whose interests he simply does not value. The Guardian (a British daily newspaper) published an ...
yourefiredbefore2020
5 hours, 28 minutes ago
Views: 206 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 0
Comments: 0
: 0
The World’s First Feminist? If you ask a feminist today who her idol is, she might say Simone de Beauvoir. But if you had asked the French intellectual, she would probably have told you it was Christine de Pizan — a woman from ...
Birth Control Works
10 hours, 30 minutes ago
Views: 205 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 0
Comments: 0
: 0
‘Politically Correct’ NY Times Hides Horror of Female Genital Mutilation But it has spread to Europe and other parts of the world too. The European Commission estimates that hundreds of thousands of women living in Europe have been subjected to FGM and thousands more are at risk. The Center ...
Birth Control Works
10 hours, 56 minutes ago
Views: 284 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 0
Comments: 0
: 0
Trump’s Abortion Policy Isn’t About Morality - It’s Coercion - Rolling Stone Amid all the presidential scandals of the past week, it was easy to miss that the Trump administration vastly expanded the anti-abortion policy known as the "global gag rule." But it's big news, with significant consequences. Days into his ...
Birth Control Works
11 hours, 9 minutes ago
Views: 318 • Comments: 2 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 1
Comments: 0
: 1
TRUMPON Venture Announced, to Compete With GROUPON! FAKE NEWS TIME reports that the White House has announced the upcoming launch of TRUMPON, which will compete with GROUPON! The TRUMPON mobile App will make great deals available to all Americans! At a White House Press Conference, Press ...
yourefiredbefore2020
14 hours, 21 minutes ago
Views: 444 • Comments: 1 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 0
Comments: 0
: 0
DHS Public Database Includes Personal Information of Abuse Victims The Trump administration's effort to highlight crimes committed by undocumented immigrants has become a nightmare for immigrant victims of abuse, with the personal information of undocumented victims appearing in a publicly searchable database launched last month by the Department ...
Birth Control Works
18 hours, 10 minutes ago
Views: 260 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 0
Comments: 0
: 0
Heroes - King Crimson Live in Berlin "King Crimson performed Heroes at the Admiralspalast in Berlin as a celebration, a remembrancing and an homage. The concert was thirty nine years and one month after the original sessions at the Hansa Tonstudio overlooking the Berlin Wall. This ...
Tarkloon
1 day ago
Views: 278 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 0 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 0
Comments: 0
: 0
President John F. Kennedy’s Civil Rights Address c-span.org I'm old enough that I actually remember watching this live on TV. At the time, I knew even at the tender age of 11 (to be age 12 before the month was out, and my entire world view ...
Backwoods_Sleuth
1 day, 1 hour ago
Views: 328 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 1
Comments: 0
: 1
Deluxe Cheesecake Recipe - NYT Cooking Ingredients For the crust 1 cup flour (120 grams) ¼ teaspoon sugar 1 teaspoon grated lemon zest ½ cup (1 stick) butter (113 grams), chilled and cubed 1 egg yolk, lightly beaten ¼ teaspoon vanilla For the filling 5 ...
The Vicious Babushka
1 day, 3 hours ago
Views: 350 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 1
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 0
Comments: 0
: 0
Norah Jones - Black Hole Sun (Detroit Fox Theatre 5.23.17)Norah paid tribute to Chris Cornell at Detroit’s Fox Theatre with ‘Black Hole Sun.’ Filmed by: Ed Davis
Tarkloon
1 day, 6 hours ago
Views: 324 • Comments: 0 • Rating: 0
Tweets: 1 • Share to Facebook
Shares: 0
Comments: 0
: 0