American Legion Outraged at Obama Plan to Make Wounded Vets Use Private Insurance

US News • Views: 3,310

As we noted last Thursday, Barack Obama is proposing to make wounded veterans pay for their own health care with private insurance; the American Legion is outraged: Legion to White House: Don’t Bill Our Heroes.

WASHINGTON, DC (March 16, 2009) – The leader of the nation’s largest veterans organization says he is “deeply disappointed and concerned” after a meeting with President Obama today to discuss a proposal to force private insurance companies to pay for the treatment of military veterans who have suffered� service-connected disabilities and injuries. The Obama administration recently revealed a plan to require private insurance carriers to reimburse the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) in such cases.�

“It became apparent during our discussion today that the President intends to move forward with this unreasonable plan,” said Commander David K. Rehbein of The American Legion.� “He says he is looking to generate $540-million by this method, but refused to hear arguments about the moral and government-avowed obligations that would be compromised by it.”

The Commander, clearly angered as he emerged from the session said, “This reimbursement plan would be inconsistent with the mandate ‘ … to care for him who shall have borne the battle … ’ given that the United States government sent members of the armed forces into harm’s way, and not private insurance companies.� I say again that The American Legion does not and will not support any plan that seeks to bill a veteran for treatment of a service connected disability at the very agency that was created to treat the unique need of America’s veterans!”

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563 comments
1 faraway  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:16:58am

What is the real reason Obama is doing this? I don't get it.

2 rawmuse  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:17:09am

It frees up more money to give to ACORN.

3 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:17:21am

It's an outrage that this is even on the table. As I noted on the last thread; I almost hope Obama actually tries to push ahead with this. Even his fawning autograph-seekers in Congress will be running for cover.

4 NonNativeTexan  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:17:40am

Standard operating procedure for democrats. Raise taxes, cut
defense spending, even medical care for Vets.

5 loaded dice  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:18:17am

This is an easy one. He is a Chicago politician.......you ain't seen nothing yet.........

6 acwgusa  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:18:25am

As I no doubt be repeating over the next four years, Screw you, President Lacktestes.

7 napjim  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:18:54am

Unbelieveable. Could you imagine if Bush tried this? The outcry would be unbelievable. My guess is the savings will be used to support people who were injured while serving in either the Peace Corps or Ameri-Corps.

8 jcm  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:18:55am

Leftists loathe the United States Armed Forces.

9 Sharmuta  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:19:13am

After pledging repeatedly at the DNC convention they'd take care of vets, 0bama and the dems are looking to toss them under the bus. This is just disgusting.

10 Wishing  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:19:30am

From realwest. #722 previous thread:

Hello my friends. As LGFer Dustyvet posted here last night,(#869 on the thread preceding the thread immediately preceding the prior thread) President Barack Hussein Obama has indeed proposed that American Military Veterans pay for their own medical care and assistance.Link:[Link: ourvoice.legion.org...]
I read and made some comments about this last night when I was surprised, angry and depressed. Today I am merely angry. That America should ask those who went in harm’s way at the order of the President of the United States, on behalf of the American People, to pay for their own health care in the event they were wounded, maimed, or suffered illnesses or other medical problems while defending America and the American People is something which I personally find not only contemptible, but SHAMEFUL. And that President Obama is doing so as a means to obtaining an estimated $540 Million in income from the Veterans Administration is merely yet another indicator of his contempt for the US military and all the men and women who have served in it. This estimated "income stream" is LESS THAN one-third of the amount of bonuses that AIG proposed to pay it's executives, at which President Obama feigned such great anger and surprise.
I am asking EACH of you to please write to your two U.S. Senators (contact information here:[Link: [Link: www.senate.gov...]...] and your representative in Congress (contact information here [Link: [Link: www.house.gov...]...] and politely but FIRMLY insist that they vote against this proposed legislation (I believe it is hidden away inside President Obama’s $1.3 TRILLION budget) or else you will not vote for them whenever they come up for re-election, regardless of their party affiliation. Moreover, I would also ask that you e-mail this comment (making the links “fresh” in your e-mails) to all of your friends, relatives and associates.
This is a non-partisan issue as far as I’m concerned. IF we are to have an All Volunteer military, large enough to be capable of defending America and Americans and their respective interests abroad, this proposed charging of veterans for their own health care MUST BE STOPPED. You obviously need not be a veteran, or a family member of a veteran or even friends with a veteran to understand the manifest unfairness of this plan of President Obama’s.
Moreover, I am regretfully unable to spend much time on LGF today and I would very much appreciate it if you would report this comment to Charles in the hopes he will make a thread out of this issue. Further, unless and until Charles makes a thread out of this issue, I would appreciate it very much if any of my friends out here at LGF would re-post this comment in every thread today and tonight.
Thank you very much.

11 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:19:31am

Anyone who supported this clown should be in the driveway
scrapping off the bumper sticker........in shame!

12 Ringo the Gringo  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:19:32am

This must somehow tie in to his future plans to socialize all healthcare.

/....that's my guess.

13 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:19:55am

This is for real?

14 Nevergiveup  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:20:02am

"I, A.B., do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God."

The country should bear true faith and allegiance to it's vets. Period!

15 Wishing  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:20:06am

re: #7 napjim

Bush never would even let the thought spend time in his brain.

16 Lincolntf  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:21:04am

“It became apparent during our discussion today that the President intends to move forward with this unreasonable plan,” said Commander David K. Rehbein of The American Legion.


Obama should count himself lucky that Rehbein didn't reach across the table and smack him in the mouth for this horseshit. I'd like to think that I'd have the same restraint, but I kinda doubt it.

17 loppyd  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:21:41am
“He says he is looking to generate $540-million by this method, but refused to hear arguments about the moral and government-avowed obligations that would be compromised by it.”

Because Obama does not now - nor did he ever - care about the troops.

18 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:21:43am

re: #1 faraway

What is the real reason Obama is doing this? I don't get it.

Buzzsawmonkey had a theory (in the legal sense) that it was part of Obama's plan to make us ready to accept the nationalization of health care.

19 baslimthecripple  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:22:01am

I doubt they will sway the Obama administration, sort of like the old Chuck Colson or some such comment during the Nixon administration about the Jews, F,em they didn't vote for us. The effect I see this having is putting a spike in the National Guard where insurers will go to employers and indicate dramatically higher premiums if Guardsmen are going to get sent into combat, injured, discharged, and the insurance companies will be asked to foot the bill. Radically different risk profile.

20 Leonidas Hoplite  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:22:09am

Also, if volunteer enlistment drops then fewer budget dollars will be necessary to fund the armed forces - yet another budget cut for the military.

21 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:22:35am

I just simply refuse to believe this. It is beyond the realm of possibility. It won't happen.

22 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:22:37am

Takes a lot to get Mr. w angry. This did it. Takes a WHOLE lot to exceed Mr. w's low expectations of 44 (as he calls Obama.) This did it.

23 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:22:48am

I have no doubt it ties into socialized medicine. Well, what would be the alternative to making the vets pay for private insurance? Well, a universal healthcare plan of course!

24 albusteve  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:22:48am

re: #1 faraway

What is the real reason Obama is doing this? I don't get it.

same here...this makes no sense at all politically or morally...just more BO stupidity?...

25 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:22:55am

re: #10 Wishing

VFW Against VA Collection Increase Proposal

Washington, March 4, 2009 - The national commander of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the U.S. wants the Obama administration to kill a controversial budget proposal that would bill veterans with private health insurance for the care they receive for their service-connected disabilities and wounds.

"It is unconscionable to pass along the costs of war to wounded and disabled veterans," said the VFW's Glen M. Gardner Jr., a Vietnam veteran from Round Rock, Texas. "This is one policy proposal that the VFW will work hard to defeat because it breaks a sacred trust that veterans have with their government."

The administration proposed Thursday that the Department of Veterans Affairs would receive $55.9 billion in discretionary funding in fiscal year 2010, an amount that exceeds the current year budget by $5.5 billion.VFW Against VA Collection Increase Proposal

Washington, March 4, 2009 - The national commander of the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the U.S. wants the Obama administration to kill a controversial budget proposal that would bill veterans with private health insurance for the care they receive for their service-connected disabilities and wounds.

"It is unconscionable to pass along the costs of war to wounded and disabled veterans," said the VFW's Glen M. Gardner Jr., a Vietnam veteran from Round Rock, Texas. "This is one policy proposal that the VFW will work hard to defeat because it breaks a sacred trust that veterans have with their government."

The administration proposed Thursday that the Department of Veterans Affairs would receive $55.9 billion in discretionary funding in fiscal year 2010, an amount that exceeds the current year budget by $5.5 billion.

[Link: www.vfw.org...]

26 kansas  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:23:03am

Let's see how many people he can piss off in 90 days. What a cluster fuck.

27 faraway  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:23:08am

re: #21 MandyManners

I just simply refuse to believe this. It is beyond the realm of possibility. It won't happen.

Are you talking about Obama? He has already been elected.

28 Diamond Bullet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:23:21am
He says he is looking to generate $540-million by this method

Good news, at the rate he's screwing veterans he'll soon have enough to fund that $900 million terrorism grant to the Palestinians.

29 Irenike  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:23:25am

President Teleprompter has such a morally inverted view of the world.

His strategy is to put as many people on the government dole that he possibly can -- except for the men and women who put their lives on the line to defend this country. Let them pay for their own medical care (which, by the way, is going to get extremely expensive once the private sector has to compete even more with a greatly expanded government sector.)

Now, if you are a young person thinking about going into the military, and you realize your health benefits disappear after you become a civilian again, you might decide to avoid the military altogether.

If you hate soldiers, if you hate the whole idea of a military, this is a great ploy to weaken the military in the name of "budget savings."

30 kansas  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:23:34am

re: #24 albusteve

same here...this makes no sense at all politically or morally...just more BO stupidity?...

ding ding ding. We have a winner.!

31 Lincolntf  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:23:39am

re: #21 MandyManners

That's what we said when the most Liberal Senator in the country began running for President. It happened.

32 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:23:41am

Obama does not have the political clout to force this issue.

33 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:23:44am

re: #17 loppyd

Because Obama does not now - nor did he ever - care about the troops.

I believes he hates the troops... He's been groomed in hating the military... Ayers, Wright, etc...

34 x-wing  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:24:00am

avanti... yoo-hoo..Where are you at avanti?

35 warhorse_03826  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:24:18am

expect this to be one of the the rally cries for the mid-term election. even if it doesn't pass...it was on the table.....

"we wouldn't even think of making injured and disabled vets pay for their service-related injuries just to save a little money...but obama did" over a backdrop of vets in wheelchairs, ect.

it writes itself.

36 ilzito guacamolito  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:24:34am

re: #18 Honorary Yooper

Buzzsawmonkey had a theory (in the legal sense) that it was part of Obama's plan to make us ready to accept the nationalization of health care.

I agree. The majority of Americans love the military and the one hopes they can be duped into believing that nationalized health care is the only way to help the vets. Hell, he duped a whole bunch of them into voting for him.

37 the_flying_pig  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:24:42am

This piss me off. It's not right for the US veterans to pay via private insurance. Another layer of bureaucratic-outsourced wall the US veterans and disabled vets have to climb up and over.

38 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:24:45am

re: #21 MandyManners

I just simply refuse to believe this. It is beyond the realm of possibility. It won't happen.

I don't think it will happen but it's just another one of those things that these asshats are considering... What else is buried in the FY 2010 budget?

39 Russkilitlover  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:24:46am

Avanti? Avanti? Where you at? I can imagine that you are sick dizzy with all the spinning you've been doing.

40 Sharmuta  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:24:47am

I hope Colin Powell is happy now.

41 kansas  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:25:09am

re: #34 x-wing

avanti... yoo-hoo..Where are you at avanti?

66 year old retired Navy man is sitting in his den smoking a pipe........then again you asked about avanti. He is in his mother's basement.

42 acwgusa  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:25:23am

re: #34 x-wing

avanti... yoo-hoo..Where are you at avanti?


That little cockroach can stay in whatever hole it currently resides in. No need to stink up the thread.

43 faraway  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:25:51am

re: #40 Sharmuta

I hope Colin Powell is happy now.

Some brave journalist needs to get Powell's reaction.

44 Russkilitlover  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:25:53am

re: #7 napjim

Unbelieveable. Could you imagine if Bush tried this? The outcry would be unbelievable. My guess is the savings will be used to support people who were injured while serving in either the Peace Corps or Ameri-Corps.

No. I can't imagine Bush even contemplating such an obscenity.

45 Russkilitlover  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:26:15am

re: #34 x-wing

Ya beat me to it!

46 Oxnuts  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:26:19am

This is a total slap in the face to our veterans.

I wonder if it will be harder for active and veterans to get private health insurance if the insurance companies know they might have to foot the bill if the soldier is wounded. Our recruiting numbers might dwindle as people realize the possibility that they might not be able to get private health insurance.

Way to go BHO.

47 Wishing  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:26:20am

re: #44 Russkilitlover

No. I can't imagine Bush even contemplating such an obscenity.

LOL see my #15

48 bolivar  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:26:20am

re: #32 Creeping Eruption

Obama does not have the political clout to force this issue.

Don't be so sure. He is the messiah and all bow down to his magnificence....right?

49 turn  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:26:22am

re: #1 faraway

What is the real reason Obama is doing this? I don't get it.

Exactly my question too ... what's the consensus? This so outrageously wrong there has to be some sinister motive for this.

50 albusteve  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:26:43am

re: #40 Sharmuta

I hope Colin Powell is happy now.

ha!...."Gen. do you have a statement for the vets please?"
come clean Collin

51 Sharmuta  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:26:46am

re: #43 faraway

Some brave journalist needs to get Powell's reaction.

Otingoc will get right on that.

52 jorline  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:26:46am

Wasn't a main part of Obama's platform built on "Service To Your Country"?

One hell of a payback and slap in the face for your service.

Avanti, as a vet, how do you feel about this? Proud?

53 Wishing  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:27:07am

re: #49 turn

Exactly my question too ... what's the consensus? This so outrageously wrong there has to be some sinister motive for this.

Head fake..........

54 acwgusa  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:27:12am

re: #48 bolivar

Don't be so sure. He is the messiah and all bow down to his magnificence....right?

If I have to bow to Obama, I'm going to fart in his direction.

/I'm bitter today.

55 dgax65  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:27:13am

There are areas where the government should privatize to save costs......treating wounded veterans is not one of them. We volunteer to defend our country and THIS is what we get in return?

I don't know how much more out of touch with mainstream American society these bastards can be.

56 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:27:22am

re: #52 jorline

Wasn't a main part of Obama's platform built on "Service To Your Country"?

One hell of a payback and slap in the face for your service.

Avanti, as a vet, how do you feel about this? Proud?

Yes, Civilian Service to your Country...

57 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:27:27am

re: #37 the_flying_pig
Didn't the Donks raise holy hell at the cnodition of the V.A. hospital during the Bush years?
Hypocrits one and all!

58 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:27:42am

re: #46 Oxnuts

This is a total slap in the face to our veterans.

I wonder if it will be harder for active and veterans to get private health insurance if the insurance companies know they might have to foot the bill if the soldier is wounded. Our recruiting numbers might dwindle as people realize the possibility that they might not be able to get private health insurance.

Way to go BHO.


It will drive up the price of healthcare even higher than it is now. That may be the plan. Makes that socialized medicine more attractive. POS.

59 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:27:43am

Next up: Obama's groundbreaking plan to save health care costs related to fatty foods and sports injuries, by banning apple pie and baseball.

60 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:28:15am

re: #48 bolivar

Don't be so sure. He is the messiah and all bow down to his magnificence....right?

Not any more. Had he tried this stunt first. . . maybe. Now? If Maureen Dowd is making fun of him, I think the honey moon is officially over.

61 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:28:17am

re: #59 Occasional Reader

Next up: Obama's groundbreaking plan to save health care costs related to fatty foods and sports injuries, by banning apple pie and baseball.

And, MOM.

62 acwgusa  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:28:19am

re: #59 Occasional Reader

Next up: Obama's groundbreaking plan to save health care costs related to fatty foods and sports injuries, by banning apple pie and baseball.

He takes my cheeseburgers away from me, its REVOLUTION TIME!

63 Leonidas Hoplite  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:28:24am

re: #40 Sharmuta

I hope Colin Powell is happy now.

I wish I had more updings for you

64 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:28:25am

re: #57 reloadingisnotahobby

Didn't the Donks raise holy hell at the cnodition of the V.A. hospital during the Bush years?
Hypocrits one and all!

Yeah, I recall the outrage at the conditions at Walter Reade...

65 loppyd  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:28:34am

Ire: #33 tfc3rid

I believes he hates the troops... He's been groomed in hating the military... Ayers, Wright, etc...

He definitely hates what they represent.

66 Lincolntf  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:28:37am

re: #52 jorline

Avanti still thinks that this isn't happening.
Poor little sap ought to read a paper once in a while.

67 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:29:12am

re: #61 MandyManners

And, MOM.

Ah, you've gotten hold of an initial draft of the "It Takes A Village, Part Deux" plan, I see.

68 MandyManners  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:29:13am

I'm going back to bed. Wake me when sanity returns to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

69 Wishing  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:29:24am

re: #66 Lincolntf

Avanti still thinks that this isn't happening.
Poor little sap ought to read a paper once in a while.

LOL they are all dead. LOL

70 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:29:40am

re: #68 MandyManners

I'm going back to bed. Wake me when sanity returns to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

We'll just call you Rip van Mandy

71 Leonidas Hoplite  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:29:53am

re: #68 MandyManners

I'm going back to bed. Wake me when sanity returns to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Better change your nic to Rip Van Mandy

72 avanti  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:29:59am

re: #41 kansas

66 year old retired Navy man is sitting in his den smoking a pipe........then again you asked about avanti. He is in his mother's basement.

Nope, heading out into the garage to get some work done, and not spoil your party. I do have a win-win plan for you guys and gals though. If BHO does push the plan you are discussing and vets get hurt, I'll never darken your door again. If, as I predict, you are discussing a DOA suggestion that will go nowhere, you are stuck with me.

73 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:30:02am

re: #62 acwgusa

He takes my cheeseburgers away from me, its REVOLUTION TIME!

Happens here in NY, with calorie counts on all menus and fast food menus... And yet Bloomberg will get a free ride a third term (against term limit laws).

74 formercorpsman  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:30:03am

Interesting.

75 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:30:18am

re: #71 Leonidas Hoplite

Better change your nic to Rip Van Mandy

GMTA!

76 doppelganglander  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:30:20am

My prediction for next outrage: removing the tax-exempt status of church-sponsored charitable organizations. You can't have competition with the gubmint, can you now?

77 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:30:23am

re: #65 loppyd

I


He definitely hates what they represent.

Is it possible that he fears them?

78 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:30:31am

Vets attack Obama health proposal

“When a man goes and defends his country and gets injured, and then they want your insurance to pay, that’s wrong,” said David Gerke, 60, a Vietnam War veteran and retired postal worker from Kansas City. “When we went into the service, we were told our medical needs…would be taken care of for the rest of our lives.”


[Link: primebuzz.kcstar.com...]

79 Diamond Bullet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:30:31am

These are the reasons Obama will get blown out of the water in 2012. Even his most virulent detractors, myself included, never envisioned he'd go this slap-happy this quickly. He shows sympathy to foreign dictators instead of his own military, and his "Administration" has all the coherence of a 3 Stooges episode (and with tragic farce replacing slapstick tomfoolery). I just hope there's still a recognizable America left when we go back to the polls to punt this ninny.

80 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:30:47am

re: #68 MandyManners

I'm going back to bed. Wake me when sanity returns to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

Might be a loooooong time... We are only 57 days in...

81 redstateredneck  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:30:54am

re: #72 avanti

Nope, heading out into the garage to get some work done, and not spoil your party. I do have a win-win plan for you guys and gals though. If BHO does push the plan you are discussing and vets get hurt, I'll never darken your door again. If, as I predict, you are discussing a DOA suggestion that will go nowhere, you are stuck with me.

Copying and pasting for future reference.

82 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:31:00am

re: #68 MandyManners

You do realize that be YEARS!
Rip Van Mandy!

83 Lincolntf  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:31:22am

re: #72 avanti

So the head of the American Legion lied about what Obama said? That's quite an accusation.
Did you even bother to read the article?

84 Russkilitlover  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:31:22am

re: #40 Sharmuta

I hope Colin Powell is happy now.

Or, to borrow from Mandy....I HOPE COLIN POWELL IS FUCKING HAPPY NOW!

85 acwgusa  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:31:27am

re: #79 Diamond Bullet

These are the reasons Obama will get blown out of the water in 2012. Even his most virulent detractors, myself included, never envisioned he'd go this slap-happy this quickly. He shows sympathy to foreign dictators instead of his own military, and his "Administration" has all the coherence of a 3 Stooges episode (and with tragic farce replacing slapstick tomfoolery). I just hope there's still a recognizable America left when we go back to the polls to punt this ninny.

Hey! Don't compare the Stooges to Obama and cronies! The Stooges were competent!

86 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:31:29am

re: #70 redstateredneck

Douh!
Beat me by that much!

87 turn  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:31:38am

re: #53 Wishing

Head fake..........

Yes, the distraction theory was a viable one.

88 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:32:18am

re: #72 avanti

If BHO does push the plan you are discussing and vets get hurt, I'll never darken your door again. If, as I predict, you are discussing a DOA suggestion

False choice. BHO could push it, and it would still likely be DOA. And then, I guess, you'd see no problem with BHO pushing it in the first place. Nice moral logic there.

And as I said, it's outrageous that it's even under consideration.

89 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:32:28am

Vets object to billing private insurance for service injuries


[Link: www.cnn.com...]

90 turn  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:33:07am

re: #59 Occasional Reader

Well he can just take this hot dog here and ... oh nevermind.

91 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:33:10am

re: #80 tfc3rid

Might be a loooooong time... We are only 57 days in...

I know. :-(

Another 1,404 days to go of this crappola.

92 mingjaiyo  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:33:25am

As one who once volunteered to wear the uniform (Army) this outrages me. I have asked myself recently when ( not if ) I will turn on the news some day and hear that some ( former? / present? ) member of the Service that took the oath "to protect and defend the Constitution of The United States Of America against all enemies foreign and domestic" has decided that acting upon that oath has become necessary...specifically in the area of "domestic" enemies is concerned. I find it the height of ironic hypocrisy that those sitting in power in Washington today took a very similar oath when they were formally sworn into office. Obama may through election hold the title of CINC, but he is not worthy of even saluting the Marine standing at attention at the base of the steps of the chopper Marine I ( never mind receiving that Marine's salute in return...I can only imagine what must be running through that Marine's mind during that moment! ). I used to question how it was that hardcore Lefties could truly suffer from BDS in such an extreme as to become immediately frothing at the mouth when even just seeing W's picture. I wonder no more as my reaction to seeing O's face is immediate and vicseral and begins with revulsion. I never imagined feeling this way about anyone, most especially "my President". I don't imagine anymore. Turning on our Service Personnel in such a manner as this proposal should be tantamount to a " High Crime and Misdemeanor" resulting in being charged with treason...too bad that it can't be under present law.

93 ClosetConservative  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:33:32am

Barack Obama wants to give cheap/free insurance to everyone, except those who through toil and struggle have earned it.

94 samk  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:33:36am

It has been suggested to me that this is just a tactic to give BO's opponents something to "win" while they lose other, less inflammatory, battles.

With all the talk we have been hearing about Universal Healthcare I don't think there is any way this proposal can fly.

95 albusteve  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:33:42am

time for a million person stampede on DC already...spring is in the air!

96 faraway  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:33:50am

OT BOMBSHELL

While the Senate constructed the $787 billion stimulus last month, Dodd unexpectedly added an executive-compensation restriction to the bill. That amendment provides an “exception for contractually obligated bonuses agreed on before Feb. 11, 2009,” which exempts the very AIG bonuses Dodd and others are seeking to tax. The amendment is in the final version and is law.

Also, Sen. Dodd was AIG’s largest single recipient of campaign donations during the 2008 election cycle with $103,100, according to opensecrets.org.

97 Mr Spiffy  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:33:54am

re: #3 Occasional Reader

It's an outrage that this is even on the table. As I noted on the last thread; I almost hope Obama actually tries to push ahead with this. Even his fawning autograph-seekers in Congress will be running for cover.

Or better yet running and losing in 2010 and 2012

98 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:33:58am
99 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:34:17am

re: #91 Honorary Yooper

Speaking of relativity........Yikes!

100 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:34:22am

re: #88 Occasional Reader

False choice. BHO could push it, and it would still likely be DOA. And then, I guess, you'd see no problem with BHO pushing it in the first place. Nice moral logic there.

And as I said, it's outrageous that it's even under consideration.

He's President Audacity. He's got the audacity of idiocy.

101 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:34:35am

Privatizing Veterans' HealthCare: Fierce Opposition to the Idea Should Inform Debate Over Public Plan in National Healthcare Reform
According to CNN, the Secretary of Veterans Affairs Eric Shinseki has confirmed that the White House is considering an the option of billing veterans' private health insurance for service-related medical conditions.


[Link: dissentingjustice.blogspot.com...]

102 Mr Spiffy  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:34:39am

97
comment matches my karma

103 Gus  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:34:47am

Every morning I read the news and shake my head at the thought that Barack Hussien Obama is the president. I shake my head that American elected the most left-wing president in history with ties to the American Terrorist, Williams Ayers. I shake my head with the thought that the congress is dominated and run by left-wing Democrats.

104 opnion  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:34:47am

Obama is absolutely impossible to underestimate.
Even if he does not get this through, what half way patriotic American would even consider this for even a minute?

105 rawmuse  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:35:02am

Why would anyone volunteer to defend our nation under these circumstances?

106 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:35:06am

Have you read the comments from Charles's link? They are pissed.

Do NOT Invite Obama to Address Convention
Submitted by Anonymous on March 17, 2009 - 9:20 am

Please rescind the President's standing invitation to address the annual American Legion convention. Obama does not deserve that privilege. He has no business standing in the company of heroes. If Obama does address the convention, I will withdraw from the organization permanently.

107 albusteve  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:35:16am

re: #94 samk

It has been suggested to me that this is just a tactic to give BO's opponents something to "win" while they lose other, less inflammatory, battles.

With all the talk we have been hearing about Universal Healthcare I don't think there is any way this proposal can fly.

that strategey is so juvenile as to be insulting...like nobody will notice....duh!

108 Wishing  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:35:23am

re: #77 tfc3rid

Is it possible that he fears them?

He fears anyone with GUNS.

109 Mr Spiffy  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:35:39am

re: #7 napjim

Unbelieveable. Could you imagine if Bush tried this? The outcry would be unbelievable. My guess is the savings will be used to support people who were injured while serving in either the Peace Corps or Ameri-Corps.

Bush wouldn't try it

110 Leonidas Hoplite  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:35:44am

re: #96 faraway

OT BOMBSHELL

While the Senate constructed the $787 billion stimulus last month, Dodd unexpectedly added an executive-compensation restriction to the bill. That amendment provides an “exception for contractually obligated bonuses agreed on before Feb. 11, 2009,” which exempts the very AIG bonuses Dodd and others are seeking to tax. The amendment is in the final version and is law.

Also, Sen. Dodd was AIG’s largest single recipient of campaign donations during the 2008 election cycle with $103,100, according to opensecrets.org.

A bombshell indeed. Maybe that will be the nail in his coffin as a senator

111 turn  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:35:45am

re: #76 doppelganglander

Oh man, you're serious.

112 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:35:51am

re: #96 faraway

I see metaphorical pitchforks and torches on the horizon.

113 Creeping Eruption  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:35:59am

re: #105 rawmuse

Why would anyone volunteer to defend our nation under these circumstances?

Because they love it regardless who is "leading" it

114 loppyd  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:36:21am

re: #77 tfc3rid

Is it possible that he fears them?

I don't think so.

He thinks they are beneath him and represent an America he despises and wants to redefine.

115 lobo91  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:36:28am

re: #58 redstateredneck

It will drive up the price of healthcare even higher than it is now. That may be the plan. Makes that socialized medicine more attractive. POS.

That's exactly the plan.

116 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:36:31am
117 acwgusa  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:36:33am

re: #104 opnion

Obama is absolutely impossible to underestimate.
Even if he does not get this through, what half way patriotic American would even consider this for even a minute?

He isn't anywhere close to a patriot.

118 rawmuse  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:36:46am

re: #113 Creeping Eruption

Because they love it regardless who is "leading" it

Of course. My question was rhetorical...

119 jorline  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:36:52am

re: #56 tfc3rid

Yes, Civilian Service to your Country...

If PBO doesn't have respect for the military imagine the respect they would show for civilian service.

PBO...So saith the Shepherd.

Chorus...So saith the Flock.

"Porky's"

120 bolivar  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:36:52am

re: #60 Creeping Eruption

Not any more. Had he tried this stunt first. . . maybe. Now? If Maureen Dowd is making fun of him, I think the honey moon is officially over.

I would love to think this is correct but, remember both House and Senate are firmly in control of the donks and they are playin hardball. Sanfrannan and Wheedlereid are likely to tow the line. I know this is an awful development but, elections have consequences. Anybody that voted for that assclown has NOTHING TO COMPLAIN ABOUT. They are getting the change they voted for - not necessarily the change they wanted but, hey you cannot be too fussy.

Just slightly o/t I cannot work up too much sympathy for the PI - can any of you? I know we hear about the fact that most hard news gathering is done by newspapers but, the slant they have had forever in the news (not just the opinion pages) has turned me off totally and I have canceled my subscription. I just cannot take anymore.

121 NonNativeTexan  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:37:07am

re: #105 rawmuse

Why would anyone volunteer to defend our nation under these circumstances?

Because it is an honorable thing to do. If I was young enough, I would.

122 Occasional Reader  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:37:08am

Later.

123 THX-42  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:37:10am

This has nothing to do with saving money. This has nothing to do with promoting universal healthcare, This has everything to do with this man's hatred for the United States and his contempt for our military. It is a conscious effort to anger and demoralize our volunteer military. It is a diabolical strategy to eviscerate our armed forces and weaken them enough to make us seriously vulnerable to our enemies.

Why is this not an impeachable offense? Dereliction of duty. Failure to defend and protect the people of the United Sates of America.

124 loppyd  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:37:44am

re: #122 Occasional Reader

Later.

Tater.

125 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:37:47am

In my 35 years of adult life I have never been so fearful of my gov...! Luckily I have gained 35 years of life/servival skills to meet most all challenges!
Hope I only have to use very few.
But it's not looking too good at the moment!

126 Wishing  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:37:50am

re: #72 avanti

Nope, heading out into the garage to get some work done, and not spoil your party. I do have a win-win plan for you guys and gals though. If BHO does push the plan you are discussing and vets get hurt, I'll never darken your door again. If, as I predict, you are discussing a DOA suggestion that will go nowhere, you are stuck with me.

Answer this avanti: what are YOUR thoughts (do you have personal thoughts?) about this proposal?

127 acwgusa  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:37:57am

re: #124 loppyd

Tater.

Onion.

128 opnion  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:38:05am

re: #117 acwgusa

He isn't anywhere close to a patriot.

Not even close.

129 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:38:25am

re: #91 Honorary Yooper

I know. :-(

Another 1,404 days to go of this crappola.

I can't take it... In the eight years of the 'hell' that was the Bush Administration it's not as if he ever really carried out really cruel and terrible things to people who have meant so much...

130 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:38:33am

re: #105 rawmuse

Why would anyone volunteer to defend our nation under these circumstances?

They wouldn't; that's exactly the point. Like the idea to re-institute the draft, the point is to turn Americans against the idea of fighting for their country.

131 loppyd  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:38:33am

re: #128 opnion

Not even close.

galaxies away

132 Kragar  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:38:41am

[deleted]

I wouldn't piss on Obama if he were on fire, the contemptible little shit

133 Ojoe  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:38:55am

A hearty FU to America from the Commander in Chief !

134 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:39:25am

re: #116 taxfreekiller

Keep in mind.

Lt. for life, traitor, liar, fake, fraud John F. Kerry is a leader of this unDemocratic Party.

Obama is just the result of allowing this evil to grow here within.


Lt. for life, traitor, liar, fake, fraud John F. Kerry needs to be in a Federal Pen, doing hard labor, such as making little rocks out of big rocks...


/S

135 albusteve  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:39:33am

re: #126 Wishing

Answer this avanti: what are YOUR thoughts (do you have personal thoughts?) about this proposal?

he puts his thoughts together from TV shows....he's deep into pundits

136 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:39:37am

re: #117 acwgusa

He isn't anywhere close to a patriot.

He's the anti-patriot.

137 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:39:46am

I'm beyond speechless at this point. I come from a world where words mean things. Every time Obama opens his mouth, he makes it clear that the oath he swore before America and the entire world was just an empty gesture. How anyone could solemnly swear to uphold the Constitution of the United States and to defend its people, and then pull THIS STUPID BULLSHIT, is unfathomable.

138 Desert Dog  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:39:50am

And we all thought Clinton hated the military....he's a amateur compared to Barry Dunham.

139 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:39:57am

Note to Obama:

The troops are the LAST group you want against you.

140 jcm  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:40:08am

CBBHO must have failed Con Law.

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

One of the primary enumerated duties of the government is DEFENSE.

Cutting vets medical benefits undercuts the men and women voluntarily and personally provide that defense.

141 loppyd  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:40:11am

Is this the overreach we were all expecting?

“I only hope the administration will really listen to us then. This matter has far more serious ramifications than the President is imagining,” concluded the Commander.

142 faraway  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:40:19am

re: #112 Honorary Yooper

I see metaphorical pitchforks and torches on the horizon.

Obama signed the AIG bonus payments into law, then complained after AIG paid them.

143 Dianna  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:40:28am

I'm not surprised the American Legion Commander's furious. So am I! So should every single American.

Utterly disgusting, unbelievable, outrageous.

144 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:40:34am
145 Gus  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:40:46am

OT

Open wide folks. The Idiot in Chief has spoken and the DJI just went flat and is on its way down.

Obama pushes Congress to pass $3.6 trillion budget

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama is again asking Congress to pass his $3.6 trillion budget, saying it will "spark the transformation" the country needs to remain economically competitive.

More social engineering under the guise of a massive 3.6 trillion dollars of Federal spending.

146 NYCHardhat  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:40:47am

Go ahead... I would love for some asshole on lgf to come to Obama's defense or make a "progressive" analysis as to why this piece of garbage would do this. Please.... I need to release some aggression. To our veterans: Thank you, you are an inspiration to us all.

147 acwgusa  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:40:50am

re: #142 faraway

Obama signed the AIG bonus payments into law, then complained after AIG paid them.

That's how hypocrites work.

148 Ward Cleaver  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:40:58am

re: #126 Wishing

Answer this avanti: what are YOUR thoughts (do you have personal thoughts?) about this proposal?

He reminds me so much of nodroG.

149 loppyd  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:41:01am

re: #140 jcm

CBBHO must have failed Con Law.

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

One of the primary enumerated duties of the government is DEFENSE.

Cutting vets medical benefits undercuts the men and women voluntarily and personally provide that defense.

He freaking taught it.

How scary is that?

150 Gretchen  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:41:10am

I think this is a no-brainer. Overwhelmingly the military voted for McCain. Obama needs more money to pay back people who supported him. That's Obama's version of right and wrong. Remember the most ethical administration ever. To paraphrase Bill Clinton "It depends on your definition of ethics".

The only other reason I can see for this it that he's looking to deal a blow to private insurance. If private insurance companies refuse coverage for wounded vets or refuse coverage because injuries were work-related, he can demonize them. Increased payouts will also financially hurt private insurers.

151 trace  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:41:14am

Just wait, you will soon see this scumbag next want to charge deceased vets for the privilige of being interred in a national cemetery, with an upcharge for perpetual care. Obama is not worth what falls out of a tall horse's ass.

Hey, all you libs out there, How's that "O" working for you now?

152 albusteve  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:41:14am

re: #142 faraway

Obama signed the AIG bonus payments into law, then complained after AIG paid them.

and Dodd wrote the exemption....these guys oughta be in jail

153 loppyd  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:41:40am

re: #144 taxfreekiller

Rush, Mark Levin, Bill O'Riley, Glenn Beck, Hannity,

producers and idea acquiring persons who lurk here.

Some one get Senator John F. Kerry on the record just now on his opinion on this shit on the Vets.

like that,
put their sorry ass's on the hot seat

I'll call his office later. I'm a constituent.

154 Ojoe  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:41:42am

I thought I could not despise the O more. But I was wrong.

155 opnion  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:41:53am

When discussing this proposal or anything else factual about BHO that is unpleasnt his supporters always same to have a predictable reaction, either it's not true or he doesn't really mean it.

156 acwgusa  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:42:07am

re: #149 loppyd

He freaking taught it.

How scary is that?

He taught the the Constitution of the Obama States of Obamica, not the US Constitution.

157 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:42:21am

Zero respect for our warriors, favor returned, loser.

158 acwgusa  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:42:50am

re: #155 opnion

When discussing this proposal or anything else factual about BHO that is unpleasnt his supporters always same to have a predictable reaction, either it's not true or he doesn't really mean it.

Which sounds exactly like what they say about Osama Bin Ladin.

159 wiffersnapper  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:43:16am

So troops aren't deserving of your universal health care plan, Hussein?

160 NYCHardhat  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:43:18am

re: #149 loppyd

He freaking taught it.

How scary is that?

He is garbage. There will be no silver lining to this 4 year cloud.

161 Russkilitlover  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:43:37am

re: #142 faraway

Obama signed the AIG bonus payments into law, then complained after AIG paid them.

It's quite obvious that Obama doesn't even read what crosses his desk, let alone signs.

162 Kragar  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:43:43am

Up next, troops will be charged for the ammunition they use in the field

163 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:43:53am

re: #149 loppyd

He freaking taught it.

How scary is that?

Know thy enemy as thyself, I suppose.

164 Honorary Yooper  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:43:56am

re: #156 acwgusa

He taught the the Constitution of the Obama States of Obamica, not the US Constitution.

He's a major malignant narcissist. Everything is centered around BHO, and only BHO. He needs, no, craves control of everything around him as anything out of his control can criticize him and damage his fragile ego.

165 Ojoe  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:44:04am

re: #123 THX-42

It is impeachable in my eyes you bet

166 loppyd  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:44:09am

BBIAB

Taking the long way to my lunch spot. A nice ride along the ocean will help calm me down.

167 turn  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:44:11am

re: #105 rawmuse

Why would anyone volunteer to defend our nation under these circumstances?

Theory No. 2, he's doing this to stifle recruitment.

168 Mr Spiffy  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:44:12am

re: #68 MandyManners

I'm going back to bed. Wake me when sanity returns to 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue.

see you in 4 years

169 lurking faith  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:44:52am

re: #72 avanti

Nope, heading out into the garage to get some work done, and not spoil your party. I do have a win-win plan for you guys and gals though. If BHO does push the plan you are discussing and vets get hurt, I'll never darken your door again. If, as I predict, you are discussing a DOA suggestion that will go nowhere, you are stuck with me.

Ah, the weasel slightly changes his position, but without actually admitting that he was COMPLETELY WRONG in claiming that BHO does not support and is not promoting this plan.

170 deportman  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:44:55am

This clown hates the military: the left hates the military: any questions?

BTW, the 43rd successor to George Washington isn't just crazy, he's foxtrot uniform charlie kilo india november crazy...

171 Ojoe  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:45:42am

re: #164 Honorary Yooper

On your point, remember the O putting on this face more or less, at the inagural?

172 bulwrk  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:45:43am

re: #162 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Pilots will be forced to swipe their own gas cards when tanking up their aircraft.

173 Lincolntf  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:45:46am

I can't wait to see the MSM huddle up and try to protect The Lowlife-in-Chief from himself.
Should be funny.

174 jcm  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:45:52am

re: #149 loppyd

He freaking taught it.

How scary is that?

It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the Constitution, at least as its been interpreted and Warren Court interpreted in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties.
Obama, NPR, 2001

CBBHO does not understand the concept of individual rights, he understands the concept of government's rights. He's born, bred and thinks Marxist.

175 Maximu§  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:45:53am

Most Lizards in here know I'm a vet and am the father of a soldier and this is no surprise to me. Obama and his kind claim to "support our brave troops", but in reality they Hate our military, they Hate our Police forces and they Hate Christian's most of all.

176 ErnieG  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:45:57am

re: #167 turn

Theory No. 2, he's doing this to stifle recruitment.

Exactly. So that he can reinstate the draft.

177 Kreuzueber Halbmond  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:46:10am

re: #162 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Up next, troops will be charged for the ammunition they use in the field

And perhaps red stars, coming to an ACORN community military near you.

178 albusteve  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:46:18am

re: #169 lurking faith

Ah, the weasel slightly changes his position, but without actually admitting that he was COMPLETELY WRONG in claiming that BHO does not support and is not promoting this plan.

he has to wait and see what the TV heads say...he is a bonified droolers, right avanti?....lurking eh?

179 faraway  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:46:20am

When will Jon Stewart will be grilling Obama and Dodd about these AIG payments they signed into law?

180 Ojoe  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:46:20am

re: #171 Ojoe

This face?Who?

Mussolini ...

181 Player  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:46:31am

This is all about making the insurance companies look like greedy businesses sucking the lifeblood out of the "little" guy.
Nothing new here in the 'ole playbook. First demonize your opponent and then offer a solution which you have created. First step toward national health there is no doubt.

182 Gretchen  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:46:48am

So he's saving $540 million on this plan, but could afford $900 million for the Palestinians.

He's is beyond disgusting.

183 turn  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:46:48am

re: #115 lobo91

That's exactly the plan.

No. 3, a scheme to enable socialized medicine.

184 acwgusa  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:46:51am

re: #176 ErnieG

Exactly. So that he can reinstate the draft.

For what war? Our new Obama approved policy for fighting wars is drop the gun and run!

185 jcm  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:47:09am

re: #178 albusteve

he has to wait and see what the TV heads say...he is a bonified droolers, right avanti?....lurking eh?

He needs his talking points from media matters.

He frequently cuts and pastes arguments from there.

186 HippieforLife  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:47:09am

re: #154 Ojoe

I thought I could not despise the O more. But I was wrong.

Something tells me that you may be surprised at how much anger you will feel in the next 4 years.

187 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:47:16am

Interesting that Vets, our finest and bravest, the ONE group that I would tax myself to help out is the one group Obama doesn't WANT to help.

188 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:47:17am

re: #138 Desert Dog

And we all thought Clinton hated the military....he's a amateur compared to Barry Dunham.

Bill Clinton is a damn Conservative compared to this traitor.

189 lurking faith  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:47:21am

re: #81 redstateredneck

Copying and pasting for future reference.

Nah, he's left himself lots of wiggle room - he'll only leave if the plan actually goes through.

190 opnion  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:47:21am

re: #158 acwgusa

Which sounds exactly like what they say about Osama Bin Ladin.

Hmm, noone hass ever seen BHO & Bin Laden together.

191 Kragar  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:47:45am

re: #172 bulwrk

Pilots will be forced to swipe their own gas cards when tanking up their aircraft.

Any soldier who fails to issue the proper 16 paragraph verbal warning as directed by Presidential Executive Order before firing his weapon will be charged, regardless of the circumstances

192 NYCHardhat  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:48:12am

re: #179 faraway

When will Jon Stewart will be grilling Obama and Dodd about these AIG payments they signed into law?

When he stops being a self hating jew liberal douchebag.

193 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:48:29am

re: #141 loppyd

Is this the overreach we were all expecting?

Possibly but I still think in the end The One will come out of this smelling like a rose... The media will run interference for him in front of the mind numbed who voted for him...

194 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:48:35am

re: #106 NJDhockeyfan

They even had a troll show up.

America's veterans would not be in the position if they were not forced by deception into an unjust war by a President who failed to learn the lessons of Vietnam.

The little shit. Actually, that's demeaning to shit.

195 Desert Dog  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:48:43am

re: #96 faraway

OT BOMBSHELL

While the Senate constructed the $787 billion stimulus last month, Dodd unexpectedly added an executive-compensation restriction to the bill. That amendment provides an “exception for contractually obligated bonuses agreed on before Feb. 11, 2009,” which exempts the very AIG bonuses Dodd and others are seeking to tax. The amendment is in the final version and is law.

Also, Sen. Dodd was AIG’s largest single recipient of campaign donations during the 2008 election cycle with $103,100, according to opensecrets.org.

Well, when you have no soul and you place your personal power over everything else, you can sleep well at night, as I am sure Sen. Dodd does. Barney Frank and Dodd should be in shackled and put in a public stock out in front of the Capital Building so the good citizens of the USA could toss rotten vegetables at them.....

196 jcm  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:48:45am

re: #189 lurking faith

Nah, he's left himself lots of wiggle room - he'll only leave if the plan actually goes through.

The outrage will be such, now that it's gone public the chances are slim it will go through. But Avanti won't credit public pressure, it will another sign BHO is steering toward the center.

197 acwgusa  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:48:47am

re: #191 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Any soldier who fails to issue the proper 16 paragraph verbal warning as directed by Presidential Executive Order before firing his weapon will be charged, regardless of the circumstances

I know that's supposed to be a joke, but I wouldn't put it past Obama.

198 FightingBack  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:48:49am

I have to go out to work with Moonbats now. And they will approve this move.

They'll say "What's wrong with it? Let the Insurance Corporations pay. No more Corporate Welfare. And, when they fail, Socialized Medicine will be the way (for all of us.) Why should Soldiers be different? Is their job more important than Community Organizers? We voted against the Soldier, remember. And we won, too."

199 pat  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:48:58am

There is a pattern here. Tax medical insurance plans. Make the mil pay for treatment. Close veteran hospitals. All unnecessarily focused on a make believe problem.

200 Mr Spiffy  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:48:58am

re: #79 Diamond Bullet

punt this ninny.

Nominated for rotating title
(do we even do that anymore?)

201 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:49:09am

re: #145 Gus 802

OT

Open wide folks. The Idiot in Chief has spoken and the DJI just went flat and is on its way down.

Obama pushes Congress to pass $3.6 trillion budget


More social engineering under the guise of a massive 3.6 trillion dollars of Federal spending.

We need to discover EVERYTHING About this budget ASAP!

202 Wishing  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:49:28am

re: #184 acwgusa

For what war? Our new Obama approved policy for fighting wars is drop the gun and run!

war against civilians...hafta get those constitutionally patriotic guys out of there!

203 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:49:31am

Like the American soldiers who went before them, they are putting their lives on the line to protect ours.


Doc Hastings

204 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:49:37am

re: #154 Ojoe

I thought I could not despise the O more. But I was wrong.

My cup runneth o'er.

205 lobo91  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:49:40am

re: #181 Player

This is all about making the insurance companies look like greedy businesses sucking the lifeblood out of the "little" guy.
Nothing new here in the 'ole playbook. First demonize your opponent and then offer a solution which you have created. First step toward national health there is no doubt.

Precisely.

The veterans in question are simply an end to his means.

206 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:50:01am

re: #200 Mr Spiffy

Nominated for rotating title
(do we even do that anymore?)

They're above the icon for the Lounge, top right of the page below the header.

207 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:50:07am
208 Desert Dog  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:50:14am

re: #179 faraway

When will Jon Stewart will be grilling Obama and Dodd about these AIG payments they signed into law?

How does NEVER sound? I think never is correct

209 ilzito guacamolito  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:50:16am

I LOVE THE UNITED STATES MILITARY!

And, I never thought I would say this, but I hate the Commander in Chief.
210 Teacake!  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:50:18am

My experience with lefty assholes that hate all things military ALL HAVE major issues with their fathers. Abusive or absent in some weird way.

211 albusteve  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:50:26am

professional shrinks are looking at this guy...his talk, his behaviors...I'll wager more than one will decide BO is a fucking crackpot...mentally deranged....why would anyone who loaths criticism do something like this....vets don't fuck around, they will storm DC and demand some answers for playing politics like this...it just makes no sense...there is an irrationality factor here

212 Teacake!  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:51:15am

Oops... meaning that O's personal issues are clouding his decisions.

213 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:51:15am

re: #193 tfc3rid

Possibly but I still think in the end The One will come out of this smelling like a rose... The media will run interference for him in front of the mind numbed who voted for him...

Hell, 2/3rds or more of the 'mind numbed' hate the military as much as Obama does...

214 Ojoe  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:51:42am

re: #209 ilzito guacamolito

Nice avatar.

215 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:51:53am

re: #209 ilzito guacamolito

And, I never thought I would say this, but I hate the Commander in Chief.

I've found myself uttering that exact phrase quite frequently lately...

216 albusteve  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:52:02am

re: #185 jcm

He needs his talking points from media matters.

He frequently cuts and pastes arguments from there.

right...if he had not insulted me for no reason I would't care less....hiya avanti!....it's all a cheezy media thing with him...no firm principle

217 Teacake!  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:52:10am

albusteve - read up on narcissistic personalty disorder and O's weird childhood.

218 Gus  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:52:13am

re: #201 tfc3rid

We need to discover EVERYTHING About this budget ASAP!

I don't know if it's out yet but I'm sure it's more of the same (i.e. Porkulus II). Not much I can do: my congressman is a died in the wool and unchallenged Democrat and she doesn't listen to anyone other than the dopey liberals.

219 Desert Dog  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:52:39am

Free Healthcare for Illegal Aliens - YES

Free Healthcare for Congress - YES

Free Healthcare for Veterans wounded in the service of their country - NO

220 yma o hyd  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:52:48am

re: #150 Gretchen

I think this is a no-brainer. Overwhelmingly the military voted for McCain. Obama needs more money to pay back people who supported him. That's Obama's version of right and wrong. Remember the most ethical administration ever. To paraphrase Bill Clinton "It depends on your definition of ethics".

The only other reason I can see for this it that he's looking to deal a blow to private insurance. If private insurance companies refuse coverage for wounded vets or refuse coverage because injuries were work-related, he can demonize them. Increased payouts will also financially hurt private insurers.

YEah - a 'good plan', though out by 'smart' people who actually haven't got a clue.
A plan which treats actual people like so many chess pieces.
A plan which discounts the pain, disabilites wounds and injuries vets are having to cope with for the rest of their lives.

It is a good principle that the military in democratic countries follow the orders of the government - the other side of that is that the government has the obligation to look after them, by getting them the equipment needed, and by getting them the medical care they need.

Using vets especially as political chess pieces is so disgusting, it is beyond sickening.

This must not pass!

221 LC LaWedgie  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:52:49am

The commie bastards that run the VA used to have a banner that said, "Home of the Claims Busters" until they made 'em take it down. BHO wants to replace it in stone.

222 NYCHardhat  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:53:11am

re: #219 Desert Dog

Free Healthcare for Illegal Aliens - YES

Free Healthcare for Congress - YES

Free Healthcare for Veterans wounded in the service of their country - NO

This is a bad twilight zone.

223 faraway  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:53:25am

re: #195 Desert Dog

Well, when you have no soul and you place your personal power over everything else, you can sleep well at night, as I am sure Sen. Dodd does. Barney Frank and Dodd should be in shackled and put in a public stock out in front of the Capital Building so the good citizens of the USA could toss rotten vegetables at them.....

Don't forget Obama - who signed this into law.

224 Teacake!  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:53:47am

I also think O hates people who have real courage and who love this country.

225 Gus  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:53:50am

re: #209 ilzito guacamolito

I LOVE THE UNITED STATES MILITARY!

Do we even have a "Commander in Chief?"

Obama as CIC with Dick Durbin at his side.

226 ilzito guacamolito  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:53:52am

re: #214 Ojoe

Nice avatar.

Thank you.

227 samsgran1948  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:54:08am

re: #1 faraway

What is the real reason Obama is doing this? I don't get it.

It's a way to discourage Americans from joining the military. Obama, his cronies and the rest of the LLL despise the military and believe there is no reason for an Armed Forces to exist in today's enlightened world. Since the thought of being sent to an actual fighting front has not discouraged Americans from enlisting, Bambi and Co. are throwing financial roadblocks in the way since they believe, obviously, that the only reason any American joins the mlitary is because the job market is down and the military is a steady paycheck.

228 newsjunkie_ky  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:54:14am

re: #201 tfc3rid

We need to discover EVERYTHING About this budget ASAP!


From the link:
"spark the transformation"
That's all we need to hear to know what the 0 is planning, the complete transfer from Capitalist to Socialist Country.

229 Ojoe  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:54:23am

re: #226 ilzito guacamolito

You are welcome.

230 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:55:25am

re: #211 albusteve

professional shrinks are looking at this guy...his talk, his behaviors...I'll wager more than one will decide BO is a fucking crackpot...mentally deranged....why would anyone who loaths criticism do something like this....vets don't fuck around, they will storm DC and demand some answers for playing politics like this...it just makes no sense...there is an irrationality factor here

Saul Alinksy, David Cone, and William Ayers approved all via Karl Marx...their lord and savior.

231 yma o hyd  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:55:39am

re: #162 Kragar (proud to be kafir)

Up next, troops will be charged for the ammunition they use in the field

So why should that surprise you?
Our soldiers had to buy privately the desert boots they needed both in Iraq and A'stan - because our NuLAb government couldn't 'afford' them ...

Your soldiers who served with our lot know about this!

232 Kragar  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:55:43am

I'm wondering how many of the Marines guarding the White House tight now are thinking "If I take a bullet for this man, he's gonna make me pay for it."

233 ilzito guacamolito  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:55:53am

re: #224 Teacake!

I also think O hates people who have real courage and who love this country.

That's right. Our brave military don't need a fucking teleprompter to tell them what to do.

234 DistantThunder  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:55:53am

re: #211 albusteve

professional shrinks are looking at this guy...his talk, his behaviors...I'll wager more than one will decide BO is a fucking crackpot...mentally deranged....why would anyone who loaths criticism do something like this....vets don't fuck around, they will storm DC and demand some answers for playing politics like this...it just makes no sense...there is an irrationality factor here

I think he has Narcissistic Personality Disorder but the move is puzzling other than to punish people who voted against him - depriving them of money to spend on future candidates. Makes sense.

235 albusteve  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:56:07am

re: #207 taxfreekiller

very interesting little story amigo....

236 Gretchen  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:56:19am

How about the Secret Service officers protecting Obama? I'd like to see him suggest implementing this plan on them....

237 kansas  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:56:22am

Soldier health thing negated. Teleprompter broken.

238 Teacake!  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:56:24am

The only good thing to come of all of this is that the American people will clean the House next election time and start over hopefully with decent representatives.

239 DistantThunder  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:56:31am

Somewhere Bill Ayers is smiling.

240 kansas  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:57:08am

re: #239 DistantThunder

Somewhere Bill Ayers is smiling.

Did he die and go to hell and I missed it? Shit.

241 Golem Akbar  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:57:12am

Prediction: any veterans groups on the wall regarding the democrats will now go solid GOP. The dems have just shot themselves in the foot regarding the US vets.

242 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:57:23am

re: #227 samsgran1948

It's a way to discourage Americans from joining the military.

And then they can institute the draft, which will bolster the anti-war moonbats.

243 NYCHardhat  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:57:30am

re: #238 Teacake!

The only good thing to come of all of this is that the American people will clean the House next election time and start over hopefully with decent representatives.

I'm hoping he overplays his hand.

244 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:57:39am

If Obama is really doing this, then it will ultimately sink his presidency. It is hard for me to believe he is this stupid and self defeating. We are fighting a two front war. Even the most dovish president, which he is not, could not possibly aford to penalize our troops like this.

I would very much like to believe that this is not real. If it is real, then this nation is in for a lot more trouble that we do not need. If it is real then we can look forward to a real castration of this country rather than a de facto one.

245 turn  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:57:40am

re: #199 pat

There is a pattern here. Tax medical insurance plans. Make the mil pay for treatment. Close veteran hospitals. All unnecessarily focused on a make believe problem.

Head fake, that was No. 1

246 DistantThunder  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:57:41am

re: #207 taxfreekiller

#162

Of some note:

Great, Grand Dad came over just at the start of the uncivil war.
They reviewed his info when he came to New York to get off the boat.

He had an officers commission Prussian Army like thing.
So, they said, you can get off the boat, if you sign this commission to the U.S. Army for the duration of the conflict, or, get back on the boat.

He signed it, did the whole thing,even ended up with Sherman out in New Mexico dealing with my family of the Apache kind.

He lost his horse in one bad ass battle with the Conferate's , they charged his pay for the next three months to pay back for the horse and saddle, its in is Civil War records we got from the Govt. back in the 1930's.

Wow - had to pay for his shot horse.

247 Ojoe  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:57:48am

One of the planks of the new Modern Whig Party is to take care of veterans. Check them out, and if they make sense to you, please join.

Modern Whig Party

VETERANS AFFAIRS — Vigilant advocacy relating to the medical, financial, and overall well-being of our military families and veterans.

248 Wishing  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:58:01am

re: #241 Golem Akbar

Prediction: any veterans groups on the wall regarding the democrats will now go solid GOP. The dems have just shot themselves in the foot regarding the US vets.

one word: Hooray!
wait...avanti is a vet?

249 Gus  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:58:01am

Here's the Budget.

Try and watch the video without laughing. I suggest not drinking anything while watching.

250 CapeCoddah  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:58:04am

re: #243 NYCHardhat

I'm hoping he overplays his hand.

He already has.

251 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:58:09am

re: #210 Teacake!

re: #210 Teacake!

My experience with lefty assholes that hate all things military ALL HAVE major issues with their fathers. Abusive or absent in some weird way.

Freud?

252 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:58:24am

Charles, Thank you for posting this. When I read it this morning I nearly blew a gasket. I missed the item here last week. Even if this does not pass, just the idea that it was brought up and supported by the POTUS is an outrage.

253 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:58:33am

The extent to which individual people (other than himself) just don't matter to O really bothers me.

We're all just eggs for his omelet.

254 Fat Jolly Penguin  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:58:33am

re: #248 Wishing

one word: Hooray!
wait...avanti is a vet?

Avanti isn't exactly on the wall.

255 albusteve  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:58:47am

re: #234 DistantThunder

I think he has Narcissistic Personality Disorder but the move is puzzling other than to punish people who voted against him - depriving them of money to spend on future candidates. Makes sense.

at the least it seems very ironic to me....he is gonna get hammered for this

256 Killgore Trout  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:58:51am

Update on Inayat "Stabby" Bunglawala?
Crown Prosecution Service Says There is No Case Against Inayat!

What actually happened for those who do not know, is an intruder tried to break into the house of Inayat in the middle of the night. Inayat's 3 year old child was sleeping as was his pregnant wife, woken by the noise of a man who at first tried to kick in the front door and then failing that, smashed the downstairs window. Inayat confronted the intruder and in the scuffle the intruder was stabbed.

That is all it took for the press, the political leaders of this country and the Zionists to rush to smear a Muslim leader as if he was a violent ‘extremist’.

257 Irenike  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:59:06am

re: #79 Diamond Bullet

These are the reasons Obama will get blown out of the water in 2012. Even his most virulent detractors, myself included, never envisioned he'd go this slap-happy this quickly. . . .I just hope there's still a recognizable America left when we go back to the polls to punt this ninny.

I hope your first sentence goes from your keyboard to God's eyes.

But, sadly, I worry that Obama will adapt by the time 2012 comes around. The bone-headed shit he's trying to foist on us now will be forgotten. The media and Obama apologists will spin consequences of his destruction, they'll explain it away as "Bush's fault," "the market's fault," "unforseen events." Obama will get more sneaky about what he's doing, or he'll tone it down and, like the snake oil salesman he is, try to convince everybody he's doing the opposite of what he's actually doing.

See, the problem is that liberals like President O get judged on their intentions. As long as their intentions are good (regardless of the consequences of their actions), they are considered saints by their supporters. Conservatives, on the other hand, get judged harshly when their actions go wrong, ignored when their actions go right (i.e. Iraq war) and their motives, according to their opponents, are always nefarious.

258 Teacake!  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:59:22am

No doubt this isn't his original idea, can't imagine he's ever had one of those. But, the far left has shown us they want to destroy the military, will not call terrorists, terrorists or even enemy combatants... and obama has yet to form his alternative obama army.

259 Spare O'Lake  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:59:32am

The way for the plan to be politically feasible would be for legislation to be passed:
1. Making the private coverage available to soldiers and veterans without proof of insurability and without payment of any additional premiums;
2. Mandating waiver of any and all deductibles; and,
3. Removing of any and all limits of coverage and limits of insurance.

Of course this would not mean that the costs of the program would be shifted to non-military policyholders, via higher premiums, would it?/

260 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:59:47am

re: #223 faraway

Don't forget Obama - who signed this into law.

I actually think it was W.

261 DistantThunder  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:00:18am

re: #251 reloadingisnotahobby

re: #210 Teacake!

Freud?

Obama's first dad abandoned him - his second date beat his mother. His grandfather was a marxist who had no sympathy for his won wife being assaulted by a vagrant. (that was the bus story). Bill Clinton's father died - step-father beat his mother.

262 wrenchwench  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:00:29am

re: #256 Killgore Trout

That is all it took for the press, the political leaders of this country and the Zionists to rush to smear a Muslim leader as if he was a violent ‘extremist’.

Well, that and death threats emanating from his workplace....

263 jcm  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:00:36am

re: #244 LudwigVanQuixote

If Obama is really doing this, then it will ultimately sink his presidency. It is hard for me to believe he is this stupid and self defeating. We are fighting a two front war. Even the most dovish president, which he is not, could not possibly aford to penalize our troops like this.

I would very much like to believe that this is not real. If it is real, then this nation is in for a lot more trouble that we do not need. If it is real then we can look forward to a real castration of this country rather than a de facto one.

Take a look at his upbringing, his education, and who he chose to associate with.

Every indication is that Obama is not stupid and self defeating, he is operating from a deeply imbedded ideological frame of reference. His campaign, his rhetoric, his action are all consistent with that ideological frame of reference.

264 Gretchen  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:00:43am

re: #241 Golem Akbar

Prediction: any veterans groups on the wall regarding the democrats will now go solid GOP. The dems have just shot themselves in the foot regarding the US vets.


Except they'll get the self-inflicted injury taken care of by their free health care!

265 faraway  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:00:55am

re: #260 tfc3rid

I actually think it was W.

While the Senate constructed the $787 billion stimulus last month

That's Obama friend.

266 ilzito guacamolito  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:01:02am

re: #233 ilzito guacamolito

That's right. Our brave military don't need a *deleted* teleprompter to tell them what to do.

I am sorry for the expletive. This sort of stuff whether intended as merely a ruse or otherwise really makes me angry.

267 albusteve  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:01:02am

re: #248 Wishing

one word: Hooray!
wait...avanti is a vet?

a commie vet...shit happens

268 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:01:34am

re: #253 EmmmieG

The extent to which individual people (other than himself) just don't matter to O really bothers me.

We're all just eggs for his omelet.

It's amazing how the 'greater good' is always someone 'greater' than you. It's like the winner of the McDonald's Monopoly...supposedly these people exist...but you never really know one. Until it's let out it's all an inside con to keep it in the 'family'...

269 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:01:51am

Obama night be considering Veterans Benefits for Hamas?


Just a thought...


/S

270 DistantThunder  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:02:18am

re: #257 Irenike

I hope your first sentence goes from your keyboard to God's eyes.

But, sadly, I worry that Obama will adapt by the time 2012 comes around. The bone-headed shit he's trying to foist on us now will be forgotten. The media and Obama apologists will spin consequences of his destruction, they'll explain it away as "Bush's fault," "the market's fault," "unforseen events." Obama will get more sneaky about what he's doing, or he'll tone it down and, like the snake oil salesman he is, try to convince everybody he's doing the opposite of what he's actually doing.

See, the problem is that liberals like President O get judged on their intentions. As long as their intentions are good (regardless of the consequences of their actions), they are considered saints by their supporters. Conservatives, on the other hand, get judged harshly when their actions go wrong, ignored when their actions go right (i.e. Iraq war) and their motives, according to their opponents, are always nefarious.

On the front of my local paper was props to Obama for standing up to AIG - completely disregarding the fact that he created the mess in the first place. But this was the point of Ann Coulter's book: The left creates chaos and victims - and then they pretend to help and rescue the victims.

271 Golem Akbar  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:02:27am

re: #257 Irenike

I hope your first sentence goes from your keyboard to God's eyes.

But, sadly, I worry that Obama will adapt by the time 2012 comes around. The bone-headed shit he's trying to foist on us now will be forgotten. The media and Obama apologists will spin consequences of his destruction, they'll explain it away as "Bush's fault," "the market's fault," "unforseen events." Obama will get more sneaky about what he's doing, or he'll tone it down and, like the snake oil salesman he is, try to convince everybody he's doing the opposite of what he's actually doing.

See, the problem is that liberals like President O get judged on their intentions. As long as their intentions are good (regardless of the consequences of their actions), they are considered saints by their supporters. Conservatives, on the other hand, get judged harshly when their actions go wrong, ignored when their actions go right (i.e. Iraq war) and their motives, according to their opponents, are always nefarious.


Is Obama going to morph into Clinton (compromised with the right) or Carter (didn't compromise with the right)? Clinton got a second term because he was a good politician who could go rightward if that's where the polls lead him. Carter was more stubborn. Who will Obama resemble?

272 yma o hyd  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:02:59am

re: #207 taxfreekiller

#162

Of some note:

Great, Grand Dad came over just at the start of the uncivil war.
They reviewed his info when he came to New York to get off the boat.

He had an officers commission Prussian Army like thing.
So, they said, you can get off the boat, if you sign this commission to the U.S. Army for the duration of the conflict, or, get back on the boat.

He signed it, did the whole thing,even ended up with Sherman out in New Mexico dealing with my family of the Apache kind.

He lost his horse in one bad ass battle with the Conferate's , they charged his pay for the next three months to pay back for the horse and saddle, its in is Civil War records we got from the Govt. back in the 1930's.

Sooo!
You've got some Prussian blood in you - now I understand the hint from you, the other day, about being a bad-ass drill sergeant!

:-)))

{tkf}!

273 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:03:05am

re: #265 faraway

That's Obama friend.

Ahhhh... OK... I was thinking the initial AIG bailout...

274 aboo-Hoo-Hoo  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:03:53am

re: #244 LudwigVanQuixote

We are fighting a two front war.

Looks more like a 3-front war from my perspective.

275 DistantThunder  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:04:04am

Maybe this is being done to dissuade people from joining the military. Get wounded and face a lifetime of payments to your insurance company and doctor.

I call that a kick to the groin of the military - and they are canceling weapon systems.

276 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:04:14am

re: #207 taxfreekiller

#162

Of some note:

Great, Grand Dad came over just at the start of the uncivil war.
They reviewed his info when he came to New York to get off the boat.

He had an officers commission Prussian Army like thing.
So, they said, you can get off the boat, if you sign this commission to the U.S. Army for the duration of the conflict, or, get back on the boat.

He signed it, did the whole thing,even ended up with Sherman out in New Mexico dealing with my family of the Apache kind.

He lost his horse in one bad ass battle with the Conferate's , they charged his pay for the next three months to pay back for the horse and saddle, its in is Civil War records we got from the Govt. back in the 1930's.


That is a really amazing story.

277 tackle  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:04:30am

re: #58 redstateredneck

It will drive up the price of healthcare even higher than it is now. That may be the plan. Makes that socialized medicine more attractive. POS.

Let me get this straight. From the article:

"...proposal to force private insurance companies to pay for the treatment of military veterans who have suffered service-connected disabilities and injuries. The Obama administration recently revealed a plan to require private insurance carriers to reimburse the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) in such cases. "

So is the veteran billed only if he carries private insurance? It's unclear. Could you imagine how expensive a "military rider" on your insurance would be? Employers, especially small business, would be unable to provide insurance. Then the all-compassionate Obama could swoop in and offer a nationalized health care plan.
Also, what if the veteran holds no private insurance? Who foots the bill then?

278 JimmyTheClaw  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:04:42am

re: #1 faraway

What is the real reason Obama is doing this? I don't get it.

it frees up money to rebuild gaza

279 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:04:55am

So wonderful that Obama is President of the 5th column.
/sarc only in that it's wonderful...

280 DistantThunder  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:04:56am

re: #271 Golem Akbar

Is Obama going to morph into Clinton (compromised with the right) or Carter (didn't compromise with the right)? Clinton got a second term because he was a good politician who could go rightward if that's where the polls lead him. Carter was more stubborn. Who will Obama resemble?

Clinton only morphed to the right because he lost congress - was totally humiliated - and brought in Dick Morris who fashioned a centrist strategy. clinton didn't have a clue.

281 Emerald  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:04:57am

I understand Obama holds our troops in contempt.

I understand he is a total political amateur.

I understand that he has surrounded himself with people with his own leanings.

I cannot understand anyone being so out of touch with reality and not recognizing how this issue will backfire horribly. It's frightening that the security of our country, and of the free world, is incumbent on someone so completely unsuited for the job.

282 tfc3rid  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:05:15am

re: #275 DistantThunder

Maybe this is being done to dissuade people from joining the military. Get wounded and face a lifetime of payments to your insurance company and doctor.

I call that a kick to the groin of the military - and they are canceling weapon systems.

Who needs modernized weapon systems if we are no longer going to fight wars... All you need is love, man...

283 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:05:28am
284 jcm  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:05:32am

re: #281 Emerald

I understand Obama holds our troops in contempt.

I understand he is a total political amateur.

I understand that he has surrounded himself with people with his own leanings.

I cannot understand anyone being so out of touch with reality and not recognizing how this issue will backfire horribly. It's frightening that the security of our country, and of the free world, is incumbent on someone so completely unsuited for the job.

Arrogance.

285 J.S.  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:05:37am

Just what is Obama doing here? Declaring a war on Veterans? disgusting and contemptible.

286 Gretchen  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:05:54am

re: #269 Dustyvet

Obama night be considering Veterans Benefits for Hamas?


Just a thought...


/S

You can bet some of the $900 million will go to the families of suicide bombers.

287 Desert Dog  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:05:59am

re: #249 Gus 802

Here's the Budget.

Try and watch the video without laughing. I suggest not drinking anything while watching.

I can't tell....geek or nerd?

288 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:06:23am

There are companies that handle their medical insurance by "self-financing." This means that they hire someone to handle the claims, but find it cheaper to pay for the medical bills themselves than insure. (My husband worked for one, so I know about this.)

You're the interviewer at one of these companies. You have two qualified candidates. One of them is a vet with medical issues left over from the war.

THAT is why this cannot be our government's policy.

289 Buck  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:06:24am

re: #129 tfc3rid

I can't take it... In the eight years of the 'hell' that was the Bush Administration it's not as if he ever really carried out really cruel and terrible things to people who have meant so much...

Really? What about the 200 million Iraqis that he personally killed...?

/Sorry... the LLL leaped out...

290 zombie  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:06:24am

When mobys think they're clever, they can make themselves look really really foolish. Some moonbat left the following comment on one of my YouTube videos:

"That gay homo is a liberal comunnisst pinnko! Limbaugh toled me so, and O'reailly agreez! Fox News Rulz, they so impartial in their support of everything Bush! Goddamn liberal media."

The scary thing is, they actually believe the stereotypes are true.

291 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:06:34am

re: #275 DistantThunder

Maybe this is being done to dissuade people from joining the military. Get wounded and face a lifetime of payments to your insurance company and doctor.

I call that a kick to the groin of the military - and they are canceling weapon systems.

It will also keep employers from hiring veterans out of fear that their insurance premiums will rise dramatically. This is wrong in so many ways.

292 funky chicken  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:06:46am

re: #32 Creeping Eruption

re: #77 tfc3rid

Is it possible that he fears them?

Nope, just loathes them.

293 Diamond Bullet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:06:47am

re: #137 thedopefishlives

I'm beyond speechless at this point. I come from a world where words mean things. Every time Obama opens his mouth, he makes it clear that the oath he swore fumbled before America and the entire world was just an empty gesture. How anyone could solemnly swear to uphold the Constitution of the United States and to defend its people, and then pull THIS STUPID BULLSHIT, is unfathomable.

But remember, in all fairness it was all Roberts' fault for not wearing that little solar powered forehead teleprompter hat Obama's staff gave him to help out The One.

294 Nevergiveup  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:07:00am

re: #277 tackle

"...proposal to force private insurance companies to pay for the treatment of military veterans who have suffered service-connected disabilities and injuries. The Obama administration recently revealed a plan to require private insurance carriers to reimburse the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) in such cases. "

So is the veteran billed only if he carries private insurance? It's unclear. Could you imagine how expensive a "military rider" on your insurance would be? Employers, especially small business, would be unable to provide insurance. Then the all-compassionate Obama could swoop in and offer a nationalized health care plan.
Also, what if the veteran holds no private insurance? Who foots the bill then?

I suspect most "Private" insurance plans would have a problem with paying for wounds gotten during any war declared or not declared. I have "Tricare" and I don't even know how they would treat that?

295 yma o hyd  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:07:04am

re: #269 Dustyvet

Obama night be considering Veterans Benefits for Hamas?

Just a thought...

/S

Some of the millions he's pledged to the hamasholes will certainly go to their 'vets'.

*Spit*

296 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:07:09am

Pre existing conditions?
So... Did you lose your leg and right arm before or after your service in the Military? During?
Oh ! Well...that's not covered!
WTF!

297 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:07:38am

re: #286 Gretchen

You can bet some of the $900 million will go to the families of suicide bombers.

And a hell of a lot of it, went to the Swiss Bank Accounts of Hamas leaders...


/S

298 Teacake!  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:07:39am

Wouldn't be surprised if this is intentional to disway people from joining the military and the Dem's bring in the UN as replacement.

299 livefreeor die  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:07:49am

re: #123 THX-42

This has nothing to do with saving money. This has nothing to do with promoting universal healthcare, This has everything to do with this man's hatred for the United States and his contempt for our military. It is a conscious effort to anger and demoralize our volunteer military. It is a diabolical strategy to eviscerate our armed forces and weaken them enough to make us seriously vulnerable to our enemies.

Why is this not an impeachable offense? Dereliction of duty. Failure to defend and protect the people of the United Sates of America.

Amen. I want to scream. This man is making a mockery of being the Commander in Chief with his disdain for our fighting forces. He spits on the men and women who protect our country and have made it possible for him to even be president. What message does this send the world about his commitment to our military and protecting our country?

300 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:08:08am

re: #288 EmmmieG

THAT is why this cannot be our government's policy.

That and so much more.

301 DistantThunder  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:08:23am

re: #285 J.S.

Just what is Obama doing here? Declaring a war on Veterans? disgusting and contemptible.

And Joe Arrpaio the sherriff in Maricoppa county - who is being investigated by the Department of Justice . I heard him on Sean yesterday - and the guy is a firecracker who worked with Liddy in Mexico fighting drug cartels and with the DEA and DOJ for 30 years. Tough. As. Nails. Popcorn.

302 lobo91  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:09:03am

re: #277 tackle

"...proposal to force private insurance companies to pay for the treatment of military veterans who have suffered service-connected disabilities and injuries. The Obama administration recently revealed a plan to require private insurance carriers to reimburse the Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) in such cases. "

So is the veteran billed only if he carries private insurance? It's unclear. Could you imagine how expensive a "military rider" on your insurance would be? Employers, especially small business, would be unable to provide insurance. Then the all-compassionate Obama could swoop in and offer a nationalized health care plan.
Also, what if the veteran holds no private insurance? Who foots the bill then?

The VA has been doing this for awhile with regard to treatment for non-combat related conditions. TRICARE (the contractor that manages military health care) does it, as well. If you have private insurance, it gets billed first. In either case, the patient has no liability.

303 golly  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:09:33am

re: #290 zombie

Wonder if he realized that he was stereotyping himself?

304 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:10:08am

re: #301 DistantThunder

He was great wasn't he ?
Don't take no shit!
Should run for POTUS!

305 Oh no...Sand People!  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:10:17am

re: #286 Gretchen

You can bet some of the $900 million will go to the families of suicide bombers.

My guess is that that's the goal. Pick up where Saddam and his $25,000 grand per splodeydope left off.

306 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:10:19am
307 Wishing  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:10:56am

realwest asked that we post his post from the previous thread throughout the day and that we heed his advice.
Here is realwest's post:

Hello my friends. As LGFer Dustyvet posted here last night,(#869 on the thread preceding the thread immediately preceding the prior thread) President Barack Hussein Obama has indeed proposed that American Military Veterans pay for their own medical care and assistance.Link:[Link: ourvoice.legion.org...]
I read and made some comments about this last night when I was surprised, angry and depressed. Today I am merely angry. That America should ask those who went in harm’s way at the order of the President of the United States, on behalf of the American People, to pay for their own health care in the event they were wounded, maimed, or suffered illnesses or other medical problems while defending America and the American People is something which I personally find not only contemptible, but SHAMEFUL. And that President Obama is doing so as a means to obtaining an estimated $540 Million in income from the Veterans Administration is merely yet another indicator of his contempt for the US military and all the men and women who have served in it. This estimated "income stream" is LESS THAN one-third of the amount of bonuses that AIG proposed to pay it's executives, at which President Obama feigned such great anger and surprise.
I am asking EACH of you to please write to your two U.S. Senators (contact information here:[Link: [Link: www.senate.gov...]...] and your representative in Congress (contact information here [Link: [Link: www.house.gov...]...] and politely but FIRMLY insist that they vote against this proposed legislation (I believe it is hidden away inside President Obama’s $1.3 TRILLION budget) or else you will not vote for them whenever they come up for re-election, regardless of their party affiliation. Moreover, I would also ask that you e-mail this comment (making the links “fresh” in your e-mails) to all of your friends, relatives and associates.
This is a non-partisan issue as far as I’m concerned. IF we are to have an All Volunteer military, large enough to be capable of defending America and Americans and their respective interests abroad, this proposed charging of veterans for their own health care MUST BE STOPPED. You obviously need not be a veteran, or a family member of a veteran or even friends with a veteran to understand the manifest unfairness of this plan of President Obama’s.
Moreover, I am regretfully unable to spend much time on LGF today and I would very much appreciate it if you would report this comment to Charles in the hopes he will make a thread out of this issue. Further, unless and until Charles makes a thread out of this issue, I would appreciate it very much if any of my friends out here at LGF would re-post this comment in every thread today and tonight.
Thank you very much.

308 turn  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:11:09am

re: #295 yma o hyd

Hey there yma, what were those geological structures you were on a hunt for again?

309 Gus  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:11:10am

Gates readies big cuts in weapons

Two defense officials who were not authorized to speak publicly said Gates will announce up to a half-dozen major weapons cancellations later this month. Candidates include a new Navy destroyer, the Air Force's F-22 fighter jet, and Army ground-combat vehicles, the offi cials said.

310 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:11:11am

I am asking because this is serious, How certain are we that Obama really wants to do this and that this is not some aide who said something really stupid, or one of the more moonbat congress people who got something inserted somewhere.

I am not trying to defend him, and if it is true, I'll lead the charge calling for him to be pilloried.

I want to assess the damage.

Do we have any other sources on what exactly the proposal is, who made it and what it's odds of passage are?

311 NonNativeTexan  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:11:56am

I was extremely disturbed when the horrible care of some wounded
heroes at Walter Reed came to light. This was a result of privatization and
awarding a contract to the lowest bidder. Some things should be done
by government agencies. The care of wounded veterans is one of them.

312 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:12:08am

I hope all our military is paying attention to this!
What's the penalty for not saluting the the prez....?

313 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:12:14am

re: #309 Gus 802

Gates readies big cuts in weapons


Oh shit.

314 livefreeor die  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:12:30am

re: #307 Wishing

I'll try but here in PA we have Specter (need I say more) and Casey (who is dumber than a rock).

315 opnion  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:12:45am

Here is a man with racial identity issues, abandonment issues , religious affiliation issues. A guy who spent his high school years stoned & marries a bitter racist.
What do you with him? Well, you do not put him in the White House,l but we did.

316 Dianna  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:12:46am

re: #310 LudwigVanQuixote

I am asking because this is serious, How certain are we that Obama really wants to do this and that this is not some aide who said something really stupid, or one of the more moonbat congress people who got something inserted somewhere.

I am not trying to defend him, and if it is true, I'll lead the charge calling for him to be pilloried.

I want to assess the damage.

Do we have any other sources on what exactly the proposal is, who made it and what it's odds of passage are?

Read the article again.

317 Golem Akbar  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:12:48am

re: #280 DistantThunder

Clinton only morphed to the right because he lost congress - was totally humiliated - and brought in Dick Morris who fashioned a centrist strategy. clinton didn't have a clue.


You are right, of course. But Clinton was smart enough to see the way for his political survival. It's funny. Clinton has no real soul and was fast to compromise. Carter, who has a strong inner direction, wouldn't compromise. Yet, we were safer under Clinton than with Carter. [and I'm no fan of Clinton]

318 Bob Dillon  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:13:39am

re: #288 EmmmieG

There are companies that handle their medical insurance by "self-financing." This means that they hire someone to handle the claims, but find it cheaper to pay for the medical bills themselves than insure. (My husband worked for one, so I know about this.)

You're the interviewer at one of these companies. You have two qualified candidates. One of them is a vet with medical issues left over from the war.

THAT is why this cannot be our government's policy.

You are most correct. The "someone" they hire is called a TPA - Third Party Administrator. Actually a private company that does all the admin work for claims etc. I used to set cos up with TPAs. And yes, the Vet is screwed.

319 Wishing  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:13:48am

re: #314 livefreeor die

I'll try but here in PA we have Specter (need I say more) and Casey (who is dumber than a rock).

Won't hurt to shoot off an email, anyway.

320 livefreeor die  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:13:54am

re: #309 Gus 802

Gates readies big cuts in weapons

Why do I feel like we are being served up to our enemies?

321 Dianna  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:13:58am

re: #310 LudwigVanQuixote

Sorry, I don't know what I did.

The American Legion had a meeting with Obama. That's in the first paragraph.

This isn't some idiot aide, this is Obama.

322 lobo91  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:14:06am

re: #310 LudwigVanQuixote

I am asking because this is serious, How certain are we that Obama really wants to do this and that this is not some aide who said something really stupid, or one of the more moonbat congress people who got something inserted somewhere.

I am not trying to defend him, and if it is true, I'll lead the charge calling for him to be pilloried.

I want to assess the damage.

Do we have any other sources on what exactly the proposal is, who made it and what it's odds of passage are?

This is real. It's in Obama's FY 2010 budget proposal. The head of the American Legion met with Obama and the VA secretary to discuss it already, and they indicated that they plan to go forward with it.

It's not a rumor.

323 yma o hyd  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:14:35am

re: #308 turn

Hey there yma, what were those geological structures you were on a hunt for again?

Hiya, {turn} - they were called 'turlochs', plural of turloch.
Its a feature from the ice age, a sort of lake which only occurs in areas of limestone, mostly in Ireland.

324 Gus  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:14:47am

re: #320 livefreeor die

Why do I feel like we are being served up to our enemies?

Perhaps it is because the enemy is sitting in the Oval Office.

325 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:14:58am

Sara Jane Olson set free, can come back to Minnesota

The '70s militant and longtime fugitive has served about half of her prison sentence and can serve her supervised parole in Minnesota.

[Link: www.startribune.com...]

326 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:15:02am

One of the things that made Ronald Reagan a great President is that he lead from a strong inner morality. He knew the difference between right and wrong and acted on that basis. Even when all of his advisers told him not to do or say something he did it anyway if he felt it was right. Even his famous "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall." was something that he was told he couldn't say because of who it might upset. He didn't care. He knew that it was right, so he did it.

Our current President has no moral compass. That, more than anything else, is going to damage this country for years to come. It becomes ever more important for a truly great leader to step up and lead us out of this mess.

327 SunshineGirl  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:15:19am

This is what happens when 'the Commander in Chief ' has no military experience, no concept of the military's contribution to this country, and no clue what he's doing! This idea is a fraud-- as is the person who is proposing it! To all who voted for "Hope and Change"-- is this the change you wanted and expected? What happened to 'country first' ( Duty, Honor, Country)-- oh, that was 'the other candidate'-McCain. Mr. Obama gives new meaning to the term 'inexperienced'.

328 Golem Akbar  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:15:25am

re: #310 LudwigVanQuixote

I am asking because this is serious, How certain are we that Obama really wants to do this and that this is not some aide who said something really stupid, or one of the more moonbat congress people who got something inserted somewhere.

I am not trying to defend him, and if it is true, I'll lead the charge calling for him to be pilloried.

I want to assess the damage.

Do we have any other sources on what exactly the proposal is, who made it and what it's odds of passage are?

That's a good question. What's really important is how Obama reacts to the proposal. If he backs the veterans, he's going to piss off the left, and vice versa. Another big issue is how he either supports the military actions against terror, or makes us less safe. Big decisions a' coming.

329 funky chicken  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:15:33am

re: #310 LudwigVanQuixote

It was discussed in front of congress last week. The proposal has been around, and endorsed by top folks in the Obama admin for at least that long.

Just because the MSM doesn't talk about something doesn't mean anything.

330 Desert Dog  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:15:36am

re: #309 Gus 802

Gates readies big cuts in weapons

Well, now that the world loves us again, there will be no need for those pricey weapons. Money can be better spend funding earmarks and other pet projects the Dems want. Perhaps we can use all of that new found cash and open up The Department of Peace?

/moonbat off

331 albusteve  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:15:58am

re: #310 LudwigVanQuixote

I am asking because this is serious, How certain are we that Obama really wants to do this and that this is not some aide who said something really stupid, or one of the more moonbat congress people who got something inserted somewhere.

I am not trying to defend him, and if it is true, I'll lead the charge calling for him to be pilloried.

I want to assess the damage.

Do we have any other sources on what exactly the proposal is, who made it and what it's odds of passage are?

the VFW guy met with BO personally

332 tackle  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:16:36am

re: #294 Nevergiveup

I suspect most "Private" insurance plans would have a problem with paying for wounds gotten during any war declared or not declared. I have "Tricare" and I don't even know how they would treat that?

They'd probably drop you.

The (un)intended consequences from this act could be:
- A significant drop in military recruiting (imagine asking the families if they have private insurance and telling them they'd have to foot the bill)
- Private insurance costs going through the roof
- Military families can no longer afford health insurance
- Obama steps in and provides a government insurance plan that will cover veterans
- Veterans then receive sub-par healthcare.

333 Gus  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:16:52am

re: #330 Desert Dog

Don't put that past him. While reading the news I was thinking, "I wouldn't be surprised if a name change for the Department of Defense is in the works." Obama would do just that.

334 yma o hyd  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:16:57am

re: #309 Gus 802

Gates readies big cuts in weapons

Welcome to the New Socialism!
Gord is going to do the same;
Britain ready to cut nuclear arsenal, says Gordon Brown

See - in moonbat-think, feeding the hungry layabouts is far more important than actually defending one's country ...

335 zombie  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:17:09am

re: #323 yma o hyd

Hiya, {turn} - they were called 'turlochs', plural of turloch.
Its a feature from the ice age, a sort of lake which only occurs in areas of limestone, mostly in Ireland.

The city of Turlock in California is named after this feature. But only to the extent is was named after a city in Ireland that was itself originally named for the feature.

336 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:17:11am

re: #310 LudwigVanQuixote

I am asking because this is serious, How certain are we that Obama really wants to do this and that this is not some aide who said something really stupid, or one of the more moonbat congress people who got something inserted somewhere.

I am not trying to defend him, and if it is true, I'll lead the charge calling for him to be pilloried.

I want to assess the damage.

Do we have any other sources on what exactly the proposal is, who made it and what it's odds of passage are?

Read this again. This was a meeting with Obama, not some flunky.
The American Legion Strongly Opposed to President's Plan to Charge Wounded Heroes for Treatment

337 'Nam Grunt  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:17:16am

For what it's worth, I served 26 months in Vietnam as a LRRP (1st tour), then as a Infantry Platoon Sergeant, (2nd tour), I loved my "Guys" that I served with and led into combat, I lost two and many wounded that I'm sure are under the care of the VA now, I served 13 years in the Army as an Infantry Grunt ALL VOLUNTARY I might add, this proposal will hurt me and my Brothers very much, I depend on the VA for my life and my dignity, guess it doesn't matter anymore what I did for my Country! Reminds me of the moonbat communist hippie in SF that spit on me as I was walking up the ramp entrance of SF International Airport to go home (he has no front teeth btw) realwest was right, tell everyone you know that you are against this bs, your freedom as a Nation depends on it! Obama is a communist and a liar!

338 Dianna  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:17:23am

re: #329 funky chicken

It was discussed in front of congress last week. The proposal has been around, and endorsed by top folks in the Obama admin for at least that long.

Just because the MSM doesn't talk about something doesn't mean anything.

Indeed - even Patty Murray reacted with "This is dead on arrival."

I hope she's right.

339 Desert Dog  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:17:31am

re: #332 tackle

They'd probably drop you.

The (un)intended consequences from this act could be:
- A significant drop in military recruiting (imagine asking the families if they have private insurance and telling them they'd have to foot the bill)
- Private insurance costs going through the roof
- Military families can no longer afford health insurance
- Obama steps in and provides a government insurance plan that will cover veterans
- Veterans then receive sub-par healthcare.

It makes me wonder what Obama's motivations are. Is this really just a "cost saving" measure?

340 Bob Dillon  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:17:39am

re: #310 LudwigVanQuixote

I am asking because this is serious, How certain are we that Obama really wants to do this and that this is not some aide who said something really stupid, or one of the more moonbat congress people who got something inserted somewhere.

I am not trying to defend him, and if it is true, I'll lead the charge calling for him to be pilloried.

I want to assess the damage.

Do we have any other sources on what exactly the proposal is, who made it and what it's odds of passage are?

When the head of the American Legion has a meeting with the President ... and comes away disturbed and angered - should be a heads-up.

341 reggie  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:18:14am

re: #1 faraway

What is the real reason Obama is doing this? I don't get it.

re: #23 tfc3rid

I have no doubt it ties into socialized medicine. Well, what would be the alternative to making the vets pay for private insurance? Well, a universal healthcare plan of course!

Manchurian candidate conspiracy theory: What do you think recruitment numbers will look like going forward?

342 opnion  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:18:40am

re: #288 EmmmieG

There are companies that handle their medical insurance by "self-financing." This means that they hire someone to handle the claims, but find it cheaper to pay for the medical bills themselves than insure. (My husband worked for one, so I know about this.)

You're the interviewer at one of these companies. You have two qualified candidates. One of them is a vet with medical issues left over from the war.

THAT is why this cannot be our government's policy.


Not only that, private coverage whether fully insured or self funded by your employer has out of pocket provisions.
An injured vet would be required to pay a deductible & coinsurance for a service connected injury. VA is 100% first dollar.
Obama holds heroes in contempt.

343 turn  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:18:45am

re: #323 yma o hyd

Hiya, {turn} - they were called 'turlochs', plural of turloch.
Its a feature from the ice age, a sort of lake which only occurs in areas of limestone, mostly in Ireland.

Thanks, I took Geology some time ago and I don't recall ever running across that word. Someday I'll visit Ireland, my mothers maiden name was Stewart.

344 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:18:54am
345 albusteve  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:18:55am

there will be a showdown someday in this country....it's gonna be ugly but whatever is done can be undone...one way or another...we need to win the House

346 little boomer  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:19:05am

re: #315 opnion

Here is a man with racial identity issues, abandonment issues , religious affiliation issues. A guy who spent his high school years stoned & marries a bitter racist.
What do you with him? Well, you do not put him in the White House,l but we did.

I wish I could've updinged that more than once.

347 tackle  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:19:10am

re: #302 lobo91

The VA has been doing this for awhile with regard to treatment for non-combat related conditions. TRICARE (the contractor that manages military health care) does it, as well. If you have private insurance, it gets billed first. In either case, the patient has no liability.

I didn't realize what TRICARE was. Thanks for clarifying.

348 Golem Akbar  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:19:11am

re: #326 Ford_Prefect

One of the things that made Ronald Reagan a great President is that he lead from a strong inner morality. He knew the difference between right and wrong and acted on that basis. Even when all of his advisers told him not to do or say something he did it anyway if he felt it was right. Even his famous "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall." was something that he was told he couldn't say because of who it might upset. He didn't care. He knew that it was right, so he did it.

Our current President has no moral compass. That, more than anything else, is going to damage this country for years to come. It becomes ever more important for a truly great leader to step up and lead us out of this mess.


I'm going to disagree just a little. Obama may have a moral compass, but it may be pointed in a dangerous direction, making us less safe. We're going to find out very soon. We'll know if he makes us safer or less so. I hope for the former, but expect the latter.

349 Gus  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:19:15am

re: #334 yma o hyd

True. The UK has been cutting their defense budget for years. The Labour party has been leading the charge in those cuts since they've been the majority for many years.

350 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:19:24am

re: #337 'Nam Grunt

For what it's worth, I served 26 months in Vietnam as a LRRP (1st tour), then as a Infantry Platoon Sergeant, (2nd tour), I loved my "Guys" that I served with and led into combat, I lost two and many wounded that I'm sure are under the care of the VA now, I served 13 years in the Army as an Infantry Grunt ALL VOLUNTARY I might add, this proposal will hurt me and my Brothers very much, I depend on the VA for my life and my dignity, guess it doesn't matter anymore what I did for my Country! Reminds me of the moonbat communist hippie in SF that spit on me as I was walking up the ramp entrance of SF International Airport to go home (he has no front teeth btw) realwest was right, tell everyone you know that you are against this bs, your freedom as a Nation depends on it! Obama is a communist and a liar!

It matters to us. Thank you for your service.

351 babes  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:19:44am

re: #115 lobo91

That's exactly the plan.

Have any of you guys seen the cost of a health plan (HIPPA qualified) that covers pre-existing conditions? The rates are sky-high for coverage of a pre-existing condition.

352 Wishing  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:19:46am

re: #337 'Nam Grunt

For what it's worth, I served 26 months in Vietnam as a LRRP (1st tour), then as a Infantry Platoon Sergeant, (2nd tour), I loved my "Guys" that I served with and led into combat, I lost two and many wounded that I'm sure are under the care of the VA now, I served 13 years in the Army as an Infantry Grunt ALL VOLUNTARY I might add, this proposal will hurt me and my Brothers very much, I depend on the VA for my life and my dignity, guess it doesn't matter anymore what I did for my Country! Reminds me of the moonbat communist hippie in SF that spit on me as I was walking up the ramp entrance of SF International Airport to go home (he has no front teeth btw) realwest was right, tell everyone you know that you are against this bs, your freedom as a Nation depends on it! Obama is a communist and a liar!

Thank you for your service, and I sure hope it was you that made sure that low-life was now free of dental expenses.

353 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:19:54am

Here is a letter IAVA and other VSOs sent to BHO on February 27th.

354 doppelganglander  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:20:01am

re: #111 turn

Oh man, you're serious.


You bet. There's already a proposal to limit charitable deductions to 25% for the "rich" (over $250K). Why would you do that unless you want to choke off the support for those organizations? And when those Catholic hospital beds disappear, or the Seventh Day Adventist research hospitals close, or the Baptist nursing school shuts down, where will people turn but to the government?

355 Ojoe  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:20:23am

If you cut manned fighters you will not be able to deploy the drones.

356 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:20:23am

re: #333 Gus 802

Department of Pattycake?
Department of Friendly Negotiation?
/

357 itellu3times  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:20:53am

OK, politically this is just about the dumbest thing anybody ever heard of, but that's only the beginning. The math and finance don't work! If you have a preexisting illness, and go out to buy insurance, EITHER you pay for the full cost of the care of your preexisting illness PLUS normal premiums, or else the insurance company LOSES MONEY on you.

So, does Obama really think that vets will get cheap insurance, and the insurance companies will then pick up the tab? As I type this, I guess that is the real idea.

358 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:21:10am
359 OldLineTexan  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:21:40am

re: #345 albusteve

there will be a showdown someday in this country....it's gonna be ugly but whatever is done can be undone...one way or another...we need to win the House

The only problem with that is that "we" don't even have a "we" as of right now, much less a good leader to put up for the job.

360 jcm  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:21:46am

re: #356 reloadingisnotahobby

Department of Pattycake?
Department of Friendly Negotiation?
/

Dept. of Bend over and Spread 'em.

361 Ojoe  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:21:46am

re: #357 itellu3times

O lives in a fantasy where wealth can create itself.

362 Gus  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:21:46am

re: #356 reloadingisnotahobby

Department of Pattycake?
Department of Friendly Negotiation?
/

I'm leaning towards Department of Friendly Negotiation.

Has the Obama-Speak built in.

//

363 turn  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:21:55am

re: #337 'Nam Grunt

For what it's worth, I served 26 months in Vietnam as a LRRP (1st tour), then as a Infantry Platoon Sergeant, (2nd tour), I loved my "Guys" that I served with and led into combat, I lost two and many wounded that I'm sure are under the care of the VA now, I served 13 years in the Army as an Infantry Grunt ALL VOLUNTARY I might add, this proposal will hurt me and my Brothers very much, I depend on the VA for my life and my dignity, guess it doesn't matter anymore what I did for my Country! Reminds me of the moonbat communist hippie in SF that spit on me as I was walking up the ramp entrance of SF International Airport to go home (he has no front teeth btw) realwest was right, tell everyone you know that you are against this bs, your freedom as a Nation depends on it! Obama is a communist and a liar!

Oh please tell me he did before he spit on you ...
Thanks for your service NG.

364 joncelli  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:22:03am

re: #271 Golem Akbar

Obama is doing all this now, as quickly as possible, on the assumption that the American people have short memories and the MSM stay quiet and throw up distractions. Unfortunately, he's right.

365 oldwolves  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:22:16am

Another subtle chip at America. Claim the future, ruin the present and make a mockery of the past. Obama is simply letting future American warriors know that their service will no longer be appreciated or honored.
'Another brick in the wall'

366 Gus  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:22:47am

re: #360 jcm

Dept. of Bend over and Spread 'em.

Just remember this when you go into the Oval Office. Don't bend over to pick a bar of soap.

//

367 ilzito guacamolito  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:22:53am

re: #337 'Nam Grunt

For what it's worth, I served 26 months in Vietnam as a LRRP (1st tour), then as a Infantry Platoon Sergeant, (2nd tour), I loved my "Guys" that I served with and led into combat, I lost two and many wounded that I'm sure are under the care of the VA now, I served 13 years in the Army as an Infantry Grunt ALL VOLUNTARY I might add, this proposal will hurt me and my Brothers very much, I depend on the VA for my life and my dignity, guess it doesn't matter anymore what I did for my Country! Reminds me of the moonbat communist hippie in SF that spit on me as I was walking up the ramp entrance of SF International Airport to go home (he has no front teeth btw) realwest was right, tell everyone you know that you are against this bs, your freedom as a Nation depends on it! Obama is a communist and a liar!

Thank you for your service and sacrifice.

368 tackle  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:23:03am

re: #357 itellu3times

OK, politically this is just about the dumbest thing anybody ever heard of, but that's only the beginning. The math and finance don't work! If you have a preexisting illness, and go out to buy insurance, EITHER you pay for the full cost of the care of your preexisting illness PLUS normal premiums, or else the insurance company LOSES MONEY on you.

So, does Obama really think that vets will get cheap insurance, and the insurance companies will then pick up the tab? As I type this, I guess that is the real idea.

Someone mentioned that upthread. Either you or the private insurance company would go bankrupt. Maybe that's the point.

369 funky chicken  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:23:04am

Of course the MSM won't report this story. Here's what the MSM is reporting about Obama:

NEW YORK (CNN) -- What a welcome change to feel like someone is running the country instead of running it into the ground.

President Obama has done more in eight weeks than George W. Bush did in eight years -- unless you include starting a couple of wars.

While the armchair quarterbacks second guess the new president, he gets up every day and does things, lots of things.

Whether it's creating commissions for women and girls, ordering the investigation of President Bush's use of signing statements, or jamming a huge stimulus package through Congress, the man is working his tail off. And he seems to be loving every minute of it. It's almost as though our president was born to do exactly what he's doing. He's leading, and boy, is that refreshing.

I heard the same kind of crap on the bottom of the hour radio news blurb. They reported that there was "good news" about the economy...wholesale prices only up 1% last month and housing starts up 20%. They found some real estate commission stooge to say that the housing starts were up because of "President Obama's real estate stimulus provisions" in "his" stimulus bill.

At least 45% of American voters will be stupid enough to vote for this bastard's re-election. One can only hope that the other 55% can get their crap together to defeat him.

370 lobo91  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:23:13am

re: #357 itellu3times

OK, politically this is just about the dumbest thing anybody ever heard of, but that's only the beginning. The math and finance don't work! If you have a preexisting illness, and go out to buy insurance, EITHER you pay for the full cost of the care of your preexisting illness PLUS normal premiums, or else the insurance company LOSES MONEY on you.

So, does Obama really think that vets will get cheap insurance, and the insurance companies will then pick up the tab? As I type this, I guess that is the real idea.

Yes, it is. This proposal has nothing to do with veterans (except as pawns), and everything to do with moving toward a national healthcare system.

371 amazoninfidel  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:23:14am

Go to Veterans of Foreign Wars, send an email to your Representatives now...
www.vfw.org

372 opnion  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:23:27am

re: #346 little boomer

I wish I could've updinged that more than once.

Thank's

373 OldLineTexan  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:23:28am

re: #355 Ojoe

If you cut manned fighters you will not be able to deploy the drones.

The inmates are running the asylum, and (apparently) assume that air superiority is forever.

It's not.

"Owning the skies" is crucial to the success of our armed forces. It makes drones possible, it makes operations more successful, it protects our fleets, and it keeps our troops on the ground safer.

374 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:23:51am

Department of where's the Vaseline more like it....................

375 jaunte  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:24:05am

Socialist don't care about individuals.
They're too busy pretending to care about "The People."

376 lurking faith  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:24:06am

re: #268 Oh no...Sand People!

It's amazing how the 'greater good' is always someone 'greater' than you. It's like the winner of the McDonald's Monopoly...supposedly these people exist...but you never really know one. Until it's let out it's all an inside con to keep it in the 'family'...

Like getting jam "every other day" in Wonderland - Jam tomorrow, and jam yesterday, but never jam today.

377 Desert Dog  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:24:07am

re: #343 turn

Thanks, I took Geology some time ago and I don't recall ever running across that word. Someday I'll visit Ireland, my mothers maiden name was Stewart.

You'll need to visit Scotland then, here's your family's tartan.

I've been to Ireland and Scotland....they are BOTH awesome. Plan a visit, you will not be disappointed

378 Desert Dog  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:24:34am

re: #360 jcm

Dept. of Bend over and Spread 'em.

The Department of SHUT UP, I WON

379 Kragar  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:24:43am

Gates readies big cuts in weapons

The United States "cannot expect to eliminate national security risks through higher defense budgets, to do everything and buy everything," Gates said. The next defense secretary, he warned, would have to eliminate some costly hardware and invest in new tools for fighting insurgents.

What Gates didn't know was that he would be that successor.

Now, as the only Bush Cabinet member to remain under President Obama, Gates is preparing the most far-reaching changes in the Pentagon's weapons portfolio since the end of the Cold War, according to aides.

Two defense officials who were not authorized to speak publicly said Gates will announce up to a half-dozen major weapons cancellations later this month. Candidates include a new Navy destroyer, the Air Force's F-22 fighter jet, and Army ground-combat vehicles, the offi cials said.

More cuts are planned for later this year after a review that could lead to reductions in programs such as aircraft carriers and nuclear arms, the officials said.

380 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:24:43am
381 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:24:57am

re: #348 Golem Akbar

I'm going to disagree just a little. Obama may have a moral compass, but it may be pointed in a dangerous direction, making us less safe. We're going to find out very soon. We'll know if he makes us safer or less so. I hope for the former, but expect the latter.

I'm sorry, but I think you are wrong on this one. No one with any moral bearings could possibly look at this and not see how wrong it is. I don't care what his political agenda is, there is no way to interpret this as a positive. Even from a financial perspective, if he wants to cut the military budget I would disagree with it, but I would recognize it as a political move. This is simply a total lack of morals, and complete disrespect for those that put their lives on the line for our freedom and safety.

382 turn  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:24:58am

re: #354 doppelganglander

You bet. There's already a proposal to limit charitable deductions to 25% for the "rich" (over $250K). Why would you do that unless you want to choke off the support for those organizations? And when those Catholic hospital beds disappear, or the Seventh Day Adventist research hospitals close, or the Baptist nursing school shuts down, where will people turn but to the government?

I guess this is all part of O's Imagine plan

Youtube Video
383 zeebeach  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:25:13am

And just in time for this! [Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

384 reggie  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:25:32am

re: #369 funky chicken

Of course the MSM won't report this story. Here's what the MSM is reporting about Obama:

.....They found some real estate commission stooge to say that the housing starts were up because of "President Obama's real estate stimulus provisions" in "his" stimulus bill.....

Similar OT acecdote: I'm on a mailing list for college funding sources (kid going next year), and hit the roof when I saw the subject of one email: "Obama is giving you $5000 for college tuition"

385 joncelli  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:25:37am

re: #309 Gus 802

So what's going to happen to the F-35? Cancelled altogether or reduced buy?

386 yma o hyd  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:25:40am

re: #335 zombie

The city of Turlock in California is named after this feature. But only to the extent is was named after a city in Ireland that was itself originally named for the feature.

Isn't that interesting!

The ones we were after were petty small - all in Co Clare, inThe Burren - an outstanding area!

387 itellu3times  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:26:10am

re: #370 lobo91

Yes, it is. This proposal has nothing to do with veterans (except as pawns), and everything to do with moving toward a national healthcare system.

But I don't see how Obama can make it happen, companies would simply refuse to offer policies, shut down, or tie it all up in court.

388 formercorpsman  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:26:20am
Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules

The system's failure to "live up" to its rule book can then be used to discredit it altogether, and to replace the capitalist "rule book" with a socialist one.

389 jemima  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:26:21am

Hi Chuck [he wants us to call him that]

I know Democrats think America can defend itself with salad forks but to make our honorable, brave and self-sacrificing military pay for their injuries sustained while protecting this country is obscene.

I hope that's stated clearly enough. I am 100% against the president's notion.

Thanks.

jemima

390 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:26:21am

re: #366 Gus 802

Just remember this when you go into the Oval Office. Don't bend over to pick a bar of soap.

//

BOHITCA BATTALON!

/s

391 zombie  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:26:36am

Obama is shamelessly handing out ambassadorships as "thank you notes" to anyone who helped get him elected:

Obama taps Steelers owner as ambassador to Ireland

President Barack Obama on Tuesday selected Pittsburgh Steelers owner Dan Rooney to be U.S. ambassador to Ireland, turning to a lifelong Republican who provided the Democrat critical campaign support during the White House race.

The 76-year-old Rooney endorsed Obama over Hillary Rodham Clinton during Pennsylvania's contentious Democratic primary; Clinton won the contest last April. Rooney later campaigned for him in Steelers country in western Pennsylvania, and Obama went on to win the state last November.

This is so insulting to Ireland. Instead of choosing the best person for the job, Obama hands the position out as a cronyistic favor to a supporter.

Change! (Yeah, right.)

392 itellu3times  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:27:04am

re: #385 joncelli

So what's going to happen to the F-35? Cancelled altogether or reduced buy?

Just buying the left wings.

393 Desert Dog  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:27:10am

re: #383 zeebeach

And just in time for this! [Link: news.bbc.co.uk...]

Why not, Amerikka is going down the drain. Russia will need a strong army so they can split up the rest of the world with China once the USA turns all of their swords into latte cups

394 brookly red  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:27:19am

re: #373 OldLineTexan

The inmates are running the asylum, and (apparently) assume that air superiority is forever.
It's not.
"Owning the skies" is crucial to the success of our armed forces. It makes drones possible, it makes operations more successful, it protects our fleets, and it keeps our troops on the ground safer.

And that is why he hates it...

395 Gus  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:27:34am

re: #385 joncelli

So what's going to happen to the F-35? Cancelled altogether or reduced buy?

Don't know. I only know that a lot overseas F-35 orders were reduced over the years.

These stop-start programs are the worst thing for air defense and a waste of money in the long run. Especially considering the recent air frame incidents with the F-15.

396 'Nam Grunt  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:27:37am

re: #350 Ford_Prefect

I don't want accolades or sympathy for doing my JOB, sympathy is in the dictionary between shit and syphilis, I am a proud American and I will hook up with a "Bubba Group" when the time comes, if it does, as will my two boys! ;-)

397 Gus  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:27:58am

re: #392 itellu3times

Just buying the left wings.

//Rim shot.

398 soxfan4life  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:28:09am

re: #337 'Nam Grunt

What you did matters to this Desert Storm vet. When we returned home, a Vietnam Vet climbed aboard our bus and thanked us all profusely for our service. I replied this was nothing compared to what you did, and his reply was you cared enough to serve my brother, so it does matter that you served my brother. It's truly disgusting that 0bama and his minions even consider this. If this type of behavior doesn't give the House the much needed enema it deserves we are truly screwed.

399 lobo91  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:28:17am

re: #387 itellu3times

But I don't see how Obama can make it happen, companies would simply refuse to offer policies, shut down, or tie it all up in court.

You just answered your own question.

400 turn  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:28:40am

re: #377 Desert Dog

You'll need to visit Scotland then, here's your family's tartan.

I've been to Ireland and Scotland....they are BOTH awesome. Plan a visit, you will not be disappointed

Yeah, turn left that scottland part out didn't he. Mom had a blanket of that pattern BTW.

401 Thor-Zone  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:28:45am

This is SO WRONG on so many levels....The douche bag politicians have really scraped the bottom of the barrel this time.

402 yma o hyd  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:28:58am

re: #349 Gus 802

True. The UK has been cutting their defense budget for years. The Labour party has been leading the charge in those cuts since they've been the majority for many years.

Twelve years precisely - and the culprit was Gordon Brown, Chancellor of the Exchequer for ten years, PM since 2007.

It did not matter to him that our lads went to war - not one bit.

403 Gus  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:29:37am

Don't look now but here come a Minister of Culture.

A Kareem Dale.

Welcome to the USSA.

404 Ford_Prefect  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:30:11am

Gotta get back to work. Later Lizards!

405 Barb42  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:31:09am

My son is in Iraq; my family buried two from Vietnam; one grandchild is in the Navy; a nephew is in the Navy and several other relatives have served in Iraq or are serving. And this so-called President, the Commander in Chief, wants to abandon them? Its a return to the earlier times in human history where injured men and boys roamed the streets begging! There will be no jobs for injured vets; there will be no 'private insurance' - there will be no one signing up for the military. This is about destroying our defenses - the man is a fool or a traitor.

I have sent emails to my senators and my representative. Not that I expect the cowards to do much. I am furious.

406 jcm  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:31:19am

re: #366 Gus 802

Just remember this when you go into the Oval Office. Don't bend over to pick a bar of soap.

//

No worries.........

407 Dianna  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:31:50am

I've got to work.

Later.

408 karmic_inquisitor  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:32:39am

I saw this last night and posted on it before the open registration thread. I got so angry that I had to find a way to channel my energies more positively.

That said, there is no moral excuse of any kind for Obama on this. His supporters can claim that he does not intend to actually do this and that it is just a bargaining chip to be given up for something he actually wants.

But what kind of person does such a thing?

Well what about Saddam Hussein, who invented the term "Human shield".

Obama is using wounded vets as human shields in order to get some pork item out of his opponents.

That makes him scum.

That makes anyone who excuses this move as "DOA yet being allowed for now" as scum.

That means you, Avanti.

How can you have served and excuse this pathetic scumbag that just happened to get elected president?

Wounded vets as human shields - Obama and his brainwashed supporters are beyond contempt at this point.

409 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:32:55am

First off, it is a heads up if the head of the American legion is that pissed. I am concerned and I am not happy.

What I do not know, and what the article does not tell me, and I am having a hard time finding any other information about is:

1. What exactly is the proposal? It is something about private insurers reimbursing the VA. But, how would the proposed reimbursement work?

2. Would it be mandated that people can not loose their coverage if they join the Armed forces? If so, that means everyone's premiums go up, but at least, hopefully, the troops aren't totally screwed. Or, is this a total case of just screw the troops?

3. (continuation of 3) Is this a plan to take out private insurance on the way to national insuruance? Or, is this just a way to tax the insuruance companies and then all of us without actually making a new tax?

These are the sorts of things that I want to know about.

410 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:33:53am

re: #402 yma o hyd

Twelve years precisely - and the culprit was Gordon Brown, Chancellor of the Exchequer for ten years, PM since 2007.

It did not matter to him that our lads went to war - not one bit.

Youtube Video
411 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:33:59am

re: #350 Ford_Prefect

It matters to us. Thank you for your service.

10,000,000 updings.

412 HippieforLife  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:34:20am

re: #284 jcm

Yes, he is extremely arrogant. Why, I really don't know. He thinks being POTUS is a game. He even goes so low as to call out anyone who does not agree with him or has his press secratary call them out.

I just do not remember the Bush admin being this petty. The O just plain has no class or sense of decorum.

413 reloadingisnotahobby  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:34:23am

re: #398 soxfan4life

I was putting my son on a flight home at the Salt Lake Airport when a group of soldiers came down the escolator......
We started to applaud,standing up and everyone did likewise!
Then the elevator door opened with a soldier in a wheel chair...
Well...you can imagine there was not dry eye to be found!
That was Nov of 2005.
Thank you all!

414 doppelganglander  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:34:34am

re: #382 turn

I guess this is all part of O's Imagine plan


Yes. I firmly believe he wants to diminish, if not eliminate, the influence of religion in American life.

415 Land Shark  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:35:01am

Making wounded veterans pay for their care. Only an American hating commie scumbag piece of garbage would come up with such an outrageous and disgusting thing. Oh, right, that what we have for a "President" now. Sorry, I forgot. Three years, ten months to go... Sigh!

Obama SUCKS!

416 Thor-Zone  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:35:20am

I own a business. If one of my employees gets injured or killed while working I have insurance (which the government requires me to pay for) to cover that. What makes the government different?

The fine people in our military are government employees. If they are hurt or killed on the job, the employer (US Government) is responsible.

It is just another case where the government doesn't want to follow its own rules. Obama is a pampas, duplicitous ass.

417 redc1c4  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:35:28am

re: #48 bolivar

Don't be so sure. He is the messiah and all bow down to his magnificence....right?

fuck that motherfucker.

/channeling all my old NCO's

418 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:36:14am

re: #337 'Nam Grunt

For what it's worth, I served 26 months in Vietnam as a LRRP (1st tour), then as a Infantry Platoon Sergeant, (2nd tour), I loved my "Guys" that I served with and led into combat, I lost two and many wounded that I'm sure are under the care of the VA now, I served 13 years in the Army as an Infantry Grunt ALL VOLUNTARY I might add, this proposal will hurt me and my Brothers very much, I depend on the VA for my life and my dignity, guess it doesn't matter anymore what I did for my Country! Reminds me of the moonbat communist hippie in SF that spit on me as I was walking up the ramp entrance of SF International Airport to go home (he has no front teeth btw) realwest was right, tell everyone you know that you are against this bs, your freedom as a Nation depends on it! Obama is a communist and a liar!


Well, I say thank you.

419 Lee Coller  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:38:14am

We should call this what it is. It's theft from private insurers to pay a government obligation.

420 heidi586  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:39:06am

It is impossible - it says right in our policy (a union health insurance policy) that anything incurred due to an act of war is NOT covered. I'd guess most policies say the same...so what the hell is he playing at-what is his game!?

421 razorbacker  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:39:28am

Service: a verb

As the ram services the ewe,

As the bull services the heifer,

As the boar services the sow,

As the stallion services the mare,

so B. Hussein O., 44th intends to service members of the American armed forces who have had the misfortune of being injured or wounded in the service of their country.

*One of those useages of 'service' is not like the other. Can you pick it out? If you can, congradulations. You are smarter that a man smart enough to be elected to the highest office in the United States of America.*

422 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:39:29am

re: #418 LudwigVanQuixote

Well, I say thank you.


We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:


Youtube Video
423 yma o hyd  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:40:09am

re: #410 Dustyvet

That was one mightily pissed-off Pat Condell - he was really enraged.

Thanks - he was spot on in that clip!

424 P-DEX  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:40:35am

How can The Bamster hate the military when he has his wife out there speaking to veteran families? Isn't that enough?

/ /

425 NJDhockeyfan  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:42:23am

I know why he want's the vets to pay for their health care, has to save enough money for the $900 million he is sending to Hamas.

426 baslimthecripple  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:42:35am

re: #118 rawmuse

Many do, but this is a very good point. I think it runs parallel with that prime louse Charlie Rangel wanting to re-institute the draft. That isn't to provide more manpower. That is to up the ante drastically on the political costs of engaging in the use of military force. I think there is a substantial under-current here of exactly that - who in their right mind would put up with this sort of crap. And the target audience is the high schoolers who will have to decide in a year or two whether they want to enter an all-volunteer force and at the margins, a substantial number will conclude no. Finally, to cut Obama a modicum of slack, Tricare already is charged with going after third party payers whenever possible. So your Navy spouse has Tricare, and you have Aetna through your employer and your kid need his tonsils out, Aetna gets tagged first.

427 Kosh's Shadow  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:42:47am

I don't have the time to read all this, and I was at the doctor's; seems that my gout is now in my ankle, and that hurts worse than in the toe.

Anyway, the 0's proposal will jack up health insurance costs, pushing more people into government programs, which is exactly what he wants.

I don't think all his "mistakes" are incompetence; I think he is trying to ruin the country.

428 Almost Killed by Space Hookers  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:44:37am

re: #422 Dustyvet

We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:




Henry V is my favorite of the histories precisely for the Crispan's day speech.

429 turn  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:46:03am

re: #409 LudwigVanQuixote

3. (continuation of 3) Is this a plan to take out private insurance on the way to national insuruance? Or, is this just a way to tax the insuruance companies and then all of us without actually making a new tax?

There are at least three theories being tossed around here and that is one of them. Others are this is a head fake, a distraction from the serious issues he's screwing up on and that this is a way to stifle recruitment and force implementation of a draft.

430 spartanwoman  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:46:09am

re: #1 faraway

What is the real reason Obama is doing this? I don't get it.

Miltary went GOP, must be punished.

431 lurking faith  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:48:02am

re: #409 LudwigVanQuixote

The proposal is that private insurers would be required to reimburse the VA for care related to service-related injuries.

Currently, veterans can receive service-related care at no cost to themselves or their insurers. (Treatment for non-service-related medical care can also be received at the VA, but the VA is reimbursed by the veteran's private insurer if he/she has one.)

432 turn  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:48:03am

re: #419 Lee Coller

We should call this what it is. It's theft from private insurers to pay a government obligation.

I think it's more sinister than that.

433 Bob Dillon  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:48:36am

re: #420 heidi586

It is impossible - it says right in our policy (a union health insurance policy) that anything incurred due to an act of war is NOT covered. I'd guess most policies say the same...so what the hell is he playing at-what is his game!?

All policies in the US say it. I got a quote for a civilian on his way to Iraq. It was pricy and was issued by Lloyds. They were the only ones even willing to quote.

434 quickjustice  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:54:00am

re: #1 faraway

Obama doesn't care about veterans.

435 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:54:00am

Obama May Deploy Guard to Mexico Border

[Link: www.military.com...]

436 funky chicken  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:54:26am

re: #391 zombie

Obama is shamelessly handing out ambassadorships as "thank you notes" to anyone who helped get him elected:

Obama taps Steelers owner as ambassador to Ireland

This is so insulting to Ireland. Instead of choosing the best person for the job, Obama hands the position out as a cronyistic favor to a supporter.

Change! (Yeah, right.)

Insulting to Ireland? I don't give a rat's ass about Ireland, frankly. And this actually has gone on for as long as I can remember. Ambassadorships to cushy, but not terribly strategically important locations are simply handed out as patronage positions.

Hey, Obama's getting an important guy out of PA before the coal and veterans riots break out there. What a great guy! ///////

437 heidi586  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:54:38am

re: #433 Bobibutu
So how then...am I missing something...if the policy says they won't pay-then why would they? Just because the messiah says they must? Is this just another contract he'll tell judges to rule over? Sign a contract and it is ignored and stepped over by the government?!

438 Irenike  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:55:15am

re: #271 Golem Akbar

Is Obama going to morph into Clinton (compromised with the right) or Carter (didn't compromise with the right)? Clinton got a second term because he was a good politician who could go rightward if that's where the polls lead him. Carter was more stubborn. Who will Obama resemble?

Frankly, I fear the worst. I fear that he is every bit as good a politician as Clinton, and will not really need to compromise with the right --not for a few years, anyway. And a lot of damage can be done in those few years.

I do not believe Obama is as politically clumsy as Carter was. Obama's biggest advantages are that he has a cult of personality that Carter did not have, and he has a mainstream media that will do anything, anything to make him look good. President Teleprompter is the MSM's man. He is the mascot, both because he is black and because he is such a far-left liberal. Think of all the MSM commentators who don't even bother to mask their worship of the man ("I feel a tingle going up my leg.") They will do everything in their power to keep his image untarnished, and they will stop at nothing to keep him in power for as long as possible.

439 'Nam Grunt  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:55:42am

I'm 61 years old and have all my limbs and get along just fine, (although not fast), I'm being paid at the 100% disability rate, my posts are not for me but for the Brothers that I LOVE that have difficulty moving through life with their injuries, we MUST not let this communist destroy what they have given for America!

440 Ojoe  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:56:09am

re: #373 OldLineTexan

And if we, the most moral people, do not have the biggest weapons, then watch out.

441 medaura18586  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:58:21am

Great...

The only people government morally owes health coverage to, are the ones not going to get it.

While Obama is trying to impose nationalized health coverage on every citizen, he is moving in the opposite direction with this select group of Americans. Why the contradiction?

Is he trying to parlay the outrage that will ensue into support for nationalized health-care?

442 soxfan4life  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:58:22am

re: #439 'Nam Grunt

In your day the commies were the enemy, in my time it was radical extremist muslims. Never did I think either one let alone both rolled into one would become President.

443 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:00:12am
444 realwest  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:00:13am

re: #10 Wishing
Thank you for re-posting that.

And CHARLES - Thank you very much for making this a thread today - it's very much appreciated.

445 jjmckay1216  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:00:16am

Why is the media concentrating on this AIG crap and not stories like this? Even Rush, Hannity, Fox all led with this and are outraged. But no mention of this latest atrocity that 44 has come up with. I know that the MFMSM should be keeping the AIG bogus bonus story alive, but RUSH? Unbelievable. Now I know that we all agree bonuses with our taxpayer dollars is horrible. But, since it just MIGHT be tied in to their compensation, there should be no outrage. It's like in radio. Small salary and commission on sales. I truly believe that's what we're seeing. But this outrage by 44. Throwing the finger at the military by telling them that IF they get hurt in combat, oh well, ought to be the lead story on every right leaning media. Everyday, this POS opens his mouth and tells every American to F O. And so far, this has been the worst. Sorry for the rant, but I am pissed.

446 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:00:55am

re: #439 'Nam Grunt

I'm 61 years old and have all my limbs and get along just fine, (although not fast), I'm being paid at the 100% disability rate, my posts are not for me but for the Brothers that I LOVE that have difficulty moving through life with their injuries, we MUST not let this communist destroy what they have given for America!

Thanks Brother, welcome home!

Dustyvet

1st Bn 11th Artillery ( ON TIME)

9th Infantry Division (The Old Reliables )

Bearcat Base

Dong Tam Base

Mekong River Delta

Vietnam 1967-68

447 dry_heavz_4_alla  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:02:30am

Be careful of Obama doublespeak folks. VA benefits ARE socialized medicine, and people have complained about their bureaucratically-burdened services for years. Not to mention the lack of accountability. So why would Obama propose shifting such coverage to the private sector? Sure, it could be worse than the current system and drive down recruitment. On the other hand, with such a large pool of customers, some HMO-type arrangement might actually provide vets more choices and better service. Doesn't privatization of veterens' services go against the whole sociObama mindset?

Therefore, I think what he may be doing with this "dead on arrival" proposal is pre-emptively silencing his opposition to nationalized healthcare patterned after the VA. Afterall, if there is such an outcry to preserve socialized medicine for the vets, why would anyone oppose the same "superior, fair, focused" system for the rest of Americans?

448 'Nam Grunt  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:02:57am

Communists or Jihadis, no difference, I saw villages during covert missions in 'Nam that were wiped out, to include small children that were gutted for the lack of better words for taking c-rations from American soldiers, this is what Obama stands for, open your eyes fellow citizens, he is out to Change America to horror!

449 Land Shark  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:04:17am

re: #438 Irenike

Sadly, I think you're dead on. The MSM helped get this bum elected and they will do anything in their power to cover for him. The good thing is that public sentiment is slowly but steadily turning against Fraudbama even with the MSM doing it's best to prop him up.

450 Osama Bin Porkchop  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:05:40am

900M for the likes of Hamas, yet not even 500M for the finest that have served this country through their sacrifices.

Nausiating - yes

Unexpected? No, not from the Obamanation.....

451 VioletTiger  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:06:19am

re: #43 faraway

Some brave journalist needs to get Powell's reaction.


I never thought of that. It should be done. Brave indeed--will there be any takers?

452 Zimriel  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:07:10am

re: #204 Oh no...Sand People!

My cupouthouse runneth o'er.

FIFY

453 Noam Chumpski  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:07:58am

4 more years of this and "outrage" will seem polite.

454 'Nam Grunt  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:07:59am

I have good days and I have bad days, but there has never been a day that I don't relive fights and GREAT MEN that fought beside me and gave their all for America, their Patriotism keeps me going.

455 realwest  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:08:28am

re: #405 Barb42
First of all I'd like to thank you and your family for the sacrifices they made - and are contiuing to make - on our Nation's behalf.
Secondly, thank you for writing your congresscitters about this.
As I said on the DT, and as so kindly reposted by Wihsing at #10 above, We genuinely need a groundswell of support to FLOOD the White House from Senators and Members of the House of Representatives who are in fear of losing their seats in congress and actually have to go work for a living.
Obama will listen to that.

456 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:09:42am

The Obama administration is gearing up for a fight it can't win.

We have reported that the 2010 VA budget includes allowing the agency to bill private insurance companies for service-connected healthcare... something it can't do now. Story here...
[Link: www.vawatchdog.org...]

It should be noted that this does not mean veterans would have to buy healthcare... only those who already have it could have their insurer billed.

It should also be noted: THIS WON'T HAPPEN!

I can't find a Member of Congress who would let this get into a VA budget.

Not to mention, ALL of the veterans' service organizations (VSOs) are against this... and that's a lot of clout inside the Beltway.

So, why is the White House persisting in this proposal? That's the question.

On Monday, March 16, 2009, representatives of the major VSOs met with President Obama and staffers from the Office of Management and Budget (OMB) in the Roosevelt Room of the White House... just prior to Obama's visit to VA's Central Office to celebrate 20 years as a Cabinet-level agency.

The meeting was cordial... and the VSOs expressed their view that the "insurance" proposal was not a good idea.

From someone who was there: It appeared that OMB was somewhat apologetic about the "insurance" proposal. It appears this is a "learning curve" problem... new staffers, and all. And, President Obama fully understood the VSOs' concerns. Also, it is thought that when the budget finally comes out, the "insurance" proposal won't be in it.

More and more it appears that the "new kids in town" are moving forward with proposals like this one without fully comprehending the impact. I was told: "They'll learn."

However, the American Legion doesn't agree with this assessment (see below).

It's time for the White House to back off this proposal, now. It is only antagonizing the veteran community... while at the same time uniting them. This reminds me of the politician who said, "I've united the people. They all hate me." Not a good way to unify.

If wise, Obama will just come out and say it was a bad idea, drop it, and move on.

While the "insurance" proposal may disappear, there is another proposal that shouldn't have disappeared... and that's "advance appropriation" for the VA budget.

It is nowhere to be found... and that's a big problem.

While campaigning for the Presidency, Obama promised to support mandatory funding for VA healthcare. I even have a copy of the signed pledge. Then, he backed away from that and talked of full funding. Then, he said he supported the "advance appropriation" concept (where VA gets its budget a year in advance), and now he's backed away from that.

This is an issue where we must hold Obama's feet to the fire.

Stop waffling and fund the VA without any gimmicks or nonsense, Mr. President... please.


[Link: www.vawatchdog.org...]

457 funky chicken  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:10:07am

re: #40 Sharmuta

I hope Colin Powell is happy now.

You think Colin Powell cares?

458 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:10:14am
459 VioletTiger  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:10:14am

Two possible reasons why this vile idea is being 'floated'
Hasten the coming of socialized medicine
End to a volunteer army and bring back the draft.

460 UberInfidel67  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:11:46am

I'm gonna get ahold of my brother and ask him what his injury in Iraq cost. This would include the hole through his calf from an IED, the tube and pump they put in it to keep it draining for about a month, the hospital visits in Pgh. and the home home nurse. I am really curious. I wonder if he even knows? Hmmmmmmm

/thinking out loud

461 nyc redneck  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:12:05am

this is so typical for o.
to show his disdain for america.
it is our military who have protected this country from the beginning.
we would not exist w/out military.
it infuriates me to think abt. such a good man as david k. rehbein, representing the american legion, sitting in an office w/ in-over-his-head, inept, america hater obama.
just imagine o condescending to mr. rehbein.
disregarding and disrespecting him.
o is such a disgusting hack.
immoral and w/ no sense of honor.
he is unfit to serve.
he does not deserve to be c.i.c.

462 baldeagle  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:12:05am

I am a retired USAF Officer/Pilot,,,Vietnam Vet, etc, etc, This SOB is an American hating wanna be tyrant. He has never been part of the American Culture,,has surrounded himself by like minded Anti-American pukes ,,,this is what we get. I did not vote for this guy,,I paid attention to his history[what was avail] and what he said when off prompter. He is a manchurian candidate and I seriously grieve for my country. We are in serious, deep trouble.

463 funky chicken  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:13:53am

re: #456 Dustyvet

From someone who was there: It appeared that OMB was somewhat apologetic about the "insurance" proposal. It appears this is a "learning curve" problem... new staffers, and all. And, President Obama fully understood the VSOs' concerns.

Bullsh.. The American Legion guy didn't fall for the Obama mind trick where he seems to listen so politely and "understand" everybody's "concerns."

see Kmiec, Doug for an example of a guy who fell for it hook, line, and sinker

see Gregg, Judd for an example of a guy who woke up in time to get the hell out

464 realwest  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:15:20am

re: #447 dry_heavz_4_alla
Well,

Therefore, I think what he may be doing with this "dead on arrival" proposal is pre-emptively silencing his opposition to nationalized healthcare patterned after the VA. Afterall, if there is such an outcry to preserve socialized medicine for the vets, why would anyone oppose the same "superior, fair, focused" system for the rest of Americans?

it could be that the outcry is because we vets did what we did and suffered the way we suffered - and continue to suffer - to defend America and Americans, all as directed by the President of the United States and - sometimes - the Congress of the United States.
It is, I think, generally recognized that for the most part VA health care SUCKS - but for those in need, it is something for which they can count on for help, sooner or later.
I believe that the overwhelming majority of Americans are either veterans, families of veterans or friends and associates of veterans. And it was OBAMA who pointed out the relatively poor quality of VA Healthcare.
So why would Americans, knowing how poorly wounded vets are treated, want nationalized healthcare?

465 Noam Chumpski  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:15:27am

re: #447 dry_heavz_4_alla

Be careful of Obama doublespeak folks. VA benefits ARE socialized medicine, and people have complained about their bureaucratically-burdened services for years. Not to mention the lack of accountability. So why would Obama propose shifting such coverage to the private sector? Sure, it could be worse than the current system and drive down recruitment. On the other hand, with such a large pool of customers, some HMO-type arrangement might actually provide vets more choices and better service. Doesn't privatization of veterens' services go against the whole sociObama mindset?

Therefore, I think what he may be doing with this "dead on arrival" proposal is pre-emptively silencing his opposition to nationalized healthcare patterned after the VA. Afterall, if there is such an outcry to preserve socialized medicine for the vets, why would anyone oppose the same "superior, fair, focused" system for the rest of Americans?

Gosh, that's a clever thought, but it could debated by the argument that it's the Government who sent them into Harm's Way in the first place and so it is responsible for their care and for the payment of it.

One could also argue that medical care is part of the "contract" that a member signs upon entry... of course, however, we all know that Obama's opinion of contracts is paper thin.

466 ichef  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:17:27am

My father-in-law a WW2 vet was upset when the VA went from $1 to $7 for prescriptions, he has no idea what meds really cost, I can't imagine what he'll think of this. Why haven't the "newspeople" ran up to Walter Reed and ask the vets what they think? hmmmm, this can't be blamed on Bush so I guess its not news.

467 Bob Dillon  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:17:45am

re: #437 heidi586

So how then...am I missing something...if the policy says they won't pay-then why would they? Just because the messiah says they must? Is this just another contract he'll tell judges to rule over? Sign a contract and it is ignored and stepped over by the government?!

Policies now say they wont pay ... Obama wants to make it mandatory (get a law passed) that they must.

I think that's a system tried in Germany - late 30's.

468 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:17:45am
469 'Nam Grunt  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:18:03am

re: #462 baldeagle

1st TY for your service, (it was nice to see you zoomers on station when I called and popped smoke), you are correct we are in deep shit with this radical communist, I hope America wakes up fast, I think they are.

470 realwest  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:18:47am

re: #456 Dustyvet
Thanks for that Dusty. And thank you for opening my eyes, at the least, with your post last night.
It is somewhat interesting the way veterans, or at least most of us, still hang together, like that beautiful Band of Brothers which you quoted above and linked to a YouTube of.
Thanks again my friend.

471 funky chicken  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:19:15am

As a military spouse, I just have to offer another hearty THANK YOU to conservative pundits like Michelle Malkin who stoked their rage against John McCain right up until Nov. 4, 2008.

Really great job, Ms. Malkin. I especially appreciated how you turned the Obama illegal alien aunt story into yet another excuse to go on an anti-McCain rant. You and your commenters helped to elect Barack Obama to be my husband's Commander in Chief. I simply can't describe how grateful I am to all of you for that.

472 dry_heavz_4_alla  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:20:07am

re: #459 VioletTiger

per my comment #447 above:
#3 ... Get opponents of your socialized healthcare agenda to rise up in horror at the prospect of privatizing the largest socialized healthcare program in US history. Use that as a stick later when the "what's good for the goose" mantra is unleashed in the press.

473 'Nam Grunt  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:20:16am

re: #464 realwest

VA has been very good to me here in Texas, I have nothing but praise for the care I receive my Brother.

474 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:20:58am

re: #470 realwest

Thanks for that Dusty. And thank you for opening my eyes, at the least, with your post last night.
It is somewhat interesting the way veterans, or at least most of us, still hang together, like that beautiful Band of Brothers which you quoted above and linked to a YouTube of.
Thanks again my friend.

Your welcome Realwest...

475 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:21:59am

An Open Letter to Veterans From Secretary of Veterans Affairs Eric K. Shinseki

March 13, 2009

WASHINGTON – Following is an open letter to Veterans from Secretary of Veterans Affairs Eric K. Shinseki:

“My name is Ric Shinseki, and I am a Veteran. For me, serving as Secretary of Veterans Affairs is a noble calling. It provides me the opportunity to give back to those who served with and for me during my 38 years in uniform and those on whose shoulders we all stood as we grew up in the profession of arms.

“The Department of Veterans Affairs has a solemn responsibility to all of you, today and in the future, as more Veterans join our ranks and enroll to secure the benefits and services they have earned. I am fully committed to fulfilling President Obama’s vision for transforming our department so that it will be well-positioned to perform this duty even better during the 21st Century. We welcome the assistance and advice of our Veterans Service Organizations, other government departments and agencies, Congress, and all VA stakeholders as we move forward, ethically and transparently, so that Veterans and citizens can understand our efforts.

“Creating that vision for transforming the VA into a 21st Century organization requires a comprehensive review of our department. We approach that review understanding that Veterans are central to everything VA does. We know that results count, that the department will be measured by what we do, not what we promise, and that our best days as an organization supporting Veterans are ahead of us. We will fulfill President Lincoln’s charge to care for “. . . him, who shall have borne the battle, and for his widow, and his orphan . . .” by redesigning and reengineering ourselves for the future.
“Transforming any institution is supremely challenging; I know this from my own experience in leading large, proud, complex, and high-performing organizations through change. But the best organizations must be prepared to meet the challenging times, evolving technology and, most importantly, evolving needs of clients. Historically, organizations that are unwilling or unable to change soon find themselves irrelevant. You and your needs are not irrelevant.

“Veterans are our clients, and delivering the highest quality care and services in a timely, consistent and fair manner is a VA responsibility. I take that responsibility seriously and have charged all of the department’s employees for their best efforts and support every day to meet our obligations to you. Our path forward is challenging, but the President and Congress support us. They have asked us to do this well—for you. Veterans are our sole reason for existence and our number one priority—bar none. I look forward to working together with all VA employees to transform our department into an organization that reflects the change and commitment our country expects and our Veterans deserve.

“Thank you, and God bless our military, our Veterans, and our Nation.”

Signed: Eric K. Shinseki


[Link: www.vawatchdog.org...]

476 realwest  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:23:19am

re: #461 nyc redneck
Hey nyc redneck - you are absolutely correct in your post.
Regrettably, a majority of Americans voted him in as POTUS and now, either through blind idealogical bonding or shame of admitting they made a mistake, they are, for the moment, hanging with Obama. But I wouldn't put a whole lot of faith in that "support" President Obama, else you'll find yourself hanging alone (figuratively, of course).

477 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:24:03am

COUNTY VETS' OFFICE MAKES VETERANS "JUMP THROUGH

HOOPS" FOR SERVICE -- Fayette County, PA requires bank

account numbers and other unnecessary information

before they will help a vet file a claim.


[Link: www.vawatchdog.org...]

478 2-Drink Minimum  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:24:22am

So the Commander in Chief is going to foot his own health care expenses, too, right? And that of his wife and children?

So what are going to be his likely excuses for explaining 'that's not what I said' or 'that's not what I meant?' Is it the old "We are just testing ideas and assessing reactions, there is no way we would do such a thing . . . "

479 'Nam Grunt  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:24:36am

Sometimes I think that everyone in Texas is a Veteran, we are very pro Military here, imagine that! ;-)

480 powerplay  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:24:47am

“It became apparent during our discussion today that the President intends to move forward with this unreasonable plan,” said Commander David K. Rehbein of The American Legion.

Translation: 'Trying to talk sense into Obama is like having a discussion with a stop sign'

481 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:27:14am

re: #479 'Nam Grunt

Sometimes I think that everyone in Texas is a Veteran, we are very pro Military here, imagine that! ;-)

Well after all the State of Texas did give us Audey Murphey...:)

482 Maximu§  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:27:29am

re: #395 Gus 802

Don't know. I only know that a lot overseas F-35 orders were reduced over the years.

These stop-start programs are the worst thing for air defense and a waste of money in the long run. Especially considering the recent air frame incidents with the F-15.

F-15's (correct me if I'm wrong) are about 30 years old and are now out gunned by the latest Russian models. So, why would Obama want to cancel the F-35/F-22 program?

483 dry_heavz_4_alla  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:29:07am

re: #464 realwest

I hope no one takes my comment the wrong way. I DO believe we owe it to our vets to take care of them and their families ... at the VERY least. And it IS the US government's responsibility to ensure that happens without creating a burden on our forces. But, I would not put it past Obama to cynically use this basic instinct of every patriotic American as a tool for promoting his ideology of nationalized healthcare for all.

484 Suzette  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:29:49am

re: #154 Ojoe

I thought I could not despise the O more. But I was wrong.

I have never in my life seen such a president that despises our military.
He has already surpassed all of our ugliest presidents....Clinton, Carter in a matter of weeks.
In stores I see DVD's of him...which is ridiculous, books, and nothing but hero worship. For he has doing nothing to deserve such things.
But from the regular people I have talked to; they are furious with outrage at what he is doing. And now to the military...the outraged will surge.

485 lobo91  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:30:59am

re: #482 Maximu§

F-15's (correct me if I'm wrong) are about 30 years old and are now out gunned by the latest Russian models. So, why would Obama want to cancel the F-35/F-22 program?

1) Because he and his merry band of incompetents don't believe we actually face any threat from people who fly those other planes.

2) He's gambling that if any such threat does exist, it won't turn into a shooting war until after he leaves office.

In other words, he's recycling the Clinton defense procurement strategy.

486 'Nam Grunt  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:31:27am

re: #481 Dustyvet

Well we do have grit here in the Lonestar State, that's why Obama steps lightly around us, we are his worse nightmare, and we CAN always be The Republic of Texas again in a heartbeat, there doesn't even have to be a poll, it's 90-10%, and that 10 is in Austin, (we really need to work on that) HAHAHA!

487 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:33:27am

re: #486 'Nam Grunt

Well we do have grit here in the Lonestar State, that's why Obama steps lightly around us, we are his worse nightmare, and we CAN always be The Republic of Texas again in a heartbeat, there doesn't even have to be a poll, it's 90-10%, and that 10 is in Austin, (we really need to work on that) HAHAHA!

My best friend is a Texan...:) Lives near Houston...and boy does she have grit...:)

488 lurking faith  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:33:27am

This is the December 2008 document of health-related budget options published by the CBO. link See p. 217 for the index list of proposed changes to veteran and military benefits.

As you will see, the proposal to make private insurance pay for service-related injuries is not there, as far as I can find. I can't find it documented anywhere.

No, it appears to be a special FU to the troops coming straight from POTUS's desk, or at least from his oh so fabulous (snarl) Veterans Affairs Secretary, Eric Shinseki.

It's not in the President's proposed budget yet, or so Shinseki told the Congressional budget committees last week, but the administration is considering it. (The budget proposal is scheduled to be presented at the start of April, BTW.) If anybody outside the Administration recommended it to them, he/she/it is not owning up to it as far as I can find.

And if our POTUS, who proved in the campaign that he would say anything his audience wanted to hear, wouldn't even disown the idea to a private audience of veterans yesterday, he damned well means to get it done. If he can.

*spit*

489 jvic  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:33:52am

This is more disgusting than the Lewinsky scandal.

490 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:34:11am

Driving by, tossing this in:

If 9/11 hadn't happened, it we were at peace, a massive departure of personnel from our Armed Services would be commencing, eclipsing that of the Carter years.

491 realwest  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:35:11am

re: #473 'Nam Grunt
Hello 'Nam! I know that. But as we've "chatted about" before, the quality of VA care does indeed vary widely throughout this Nation. From everyone I've heard from, the VA hospitals and other facilities in the State of Texas are top-flight. But I KNOW that that is NOT true in NYC. And I believe Dusty will tell you that it's not true in Illinois.
Nonetheless, I wrote my post in the Dead Thread -which Wishing so kindly repeated at #10 above - after considerable thought. While I know we agree on the sheer shamefulness of the IDEA of vets having to pay for their health care, many of them are getting the kind of health care, I'm afraid, that isn't really worth paying for. That is yet another fight for us to take on together brother, but FIRST we have to stop this bullshit about vets paying for their healthcare.
Notwithstanding the excellent health care YOU receive down in Texas, I do hope you'll take the time to write to your Congress Critters at the addresses I set forth in my #722 on the prior thread (unfortunately Wishing simply copied my comment and posted it, without giving the proper linkage - easy to see and find).
and always keep the faith my brother.

492 'Nam Grunt  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:35:45am

Rush is even talking about it now! Yowza

493 Seax  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:36:57am

How to gut a military giant...
Reduce weaponary systems - clinton tried that
- sort of worked...
Reduce modern weapon systems AND reduce incentive to serve
- 'O' trying that scheme.
A friend pointed out that the balance of power
has to go to Europe....BS !? (say what?)
I have no idea if he is right - but looks like it could mean
a trip up a certain creek with no paddle...damn!

494 filetandrelease  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:37:45am

From the Presidents Message regarding the proposed budget. Enough to make me sick.

Moreover, to honor the service of those who have
worn our military’s uniform, we will make the investments
necessary to take care of our veterans

495 'Nam Grunt  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:39:31am

re: #493 Seax

You know what makes a Country have a great military? It's the motivation of young men willing to step up and fight without guilt!

496 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:39:52am

re: #493 Seax

How to gut a military giant...
Reduce weaponry systems - Clinton tried that
- sort of worked...
Reduce modern weapon systems AND reduce incentive to serve
- 'O' trying that scheme.
A friend pointed out that the balance of power
has to go to Europe....BS !? (say what?)
I have no idea if he is right - but looks like it could mean
a trip up a certain creek with no paddle...damn!

Obama's idea of a strong military is 20 bags of those plastic soldiers from Dollar General stores.

/S

497 realwest  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:39:58am

re: #493 Seax
Or, as Senator Kerry so quaintly would have said, up the Mekong without a compass or map! LOL!

498 MarineGrunt  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:40:32am

Mr. BO, you can kiss my shrapnel scarred ass.

499 Dustyvet  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:40:55am

re: #497 realwest

Or, as Senator Kerry so quaintly would have said, up the Mekong without a compass or map! LOL!

But he's got that hat...


/S

500 cosmo  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:41:46am

BO: Turd-in-Chief.

You have summarily defecated on every veteran, wounded or not, with this ridiculous scheme.

501 'Nam Grunt  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:42:07am

re: #498 MarineGrunt

Hey that was one of the places I caught a piece of metal from a RPG one beautiful morning, ouchy! LOL

502 baldeagle  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:44:33am

It just gets better and better. Rush is talking about how Michelle went to FtBragg and then said how she was oblivious to the military life,like most Americans. This is so much BS. Like I said,,,we have people running this country and attempting to run this country who do not have a clue what this country is all about. I am so pissed I cannot see straight,,my BP is bouncing off the ceiling,,, all I want to do is go "strangulate" something.

503 Crapulentis_Sum  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:44:59am

This country needs a political enema to clean out the political class. Public monies spent on failing ventures (AIG et al.) and no public spending on a non-failing venture (our military).

Eric Author Blair (a.k.a. George Orwell) would've been surprised at how much of his writing came true. Success = Failure. Failure = Success. Truth = Lies, Lies = Truth. It may be approaching the time to clean the whole rat's nest out....

504 Urso1  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:45:07am

As a veteran I can now say what I could not say before, HE is not My President. I respect the office, but not the man.

505 'Nam Grunt  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:46:02am

re: #502 baldeagle

Be sure and take your daily aspirin my Brother, I believe that it's the only thing that keeps me alive. LOL

506 johnnyreb  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:47:20am

This is really going to affect me and a bunch of people I know. We are all disabled to some extent and have private health insurance. I can pretty much guarantee if my private health care starts getting billed when I go to the VA they are going to pull the "pre-existing" condition clause in our policies, and we are going to be shoved into the middle of one huge war about who pays.

I shudder to think what is going to happen when I have both of my knees replaced by the VA.

507 MarineGrunt  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:48:50am

re: #501 'Nam Grunt

re: #501 'Nam Grunt

Welcome to the Butt Dimple club.
I walk with a slight list to port due to a very large dimple, not a very good place to get hit.

508 dry_heavz_4_alla  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:49:25am

re: #491 realwest

I would only like to suggest that when writing or calling your congressman:
1) Don't throw the marxists a bone by touting the current VA system as the epitome of healthcare, or the "only solution".
2) There is certainly room for improvement (and some privatization?) in the current system, but emphasize that as the employer of our armed forces, it is incumbent upon all citizens to contribute to the welfare of our vets, and not to have them shoulder such responsibilities alone as individuals or even as a collective group.

509 'Nam Grunt  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:52:56am

re: #507 MarineGrunt

God Bless You, my arms and wrists look like a road map to hell too. LOL

510 nyc redneck  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:53:51am

re: #502 baldeagle

It just gets better and better. Rush is talking about how Michelle went to FtBragg and then said how she was oblivious to the military life,like most Americans. This is so much BS. Like I said,,,we have people running this country and attempting to run this country who do not have a clue what this country is all about. I am so pissed I cannot see straight,,my BP is bouncing off the ceiling,,, all I want to do is go "strangulate" something.

i heard rush discuss this too.
michelle addressing military families, reading a book to their children,
pretending to be interested and concerned abt. the problems they are facing.
and then the next day, o blind sides them w/ this disrespectful onerous prospect.
he is a cold hearted maniacal thug.
the o's such low lifes.
how can the military families ever take michelle seriously. she is a joke.
trying to turn her image around by ingratiating herself w/ our troops.
what b.s.

511 Colonel Panik  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:55:43am

re: #301 DistantThunder

And Joe Arrpaio the sherriff in Maricoppa county - who is being investigated by the Department of Justice . I heard him on Sean yesterday - and the guy is a firecracker who worked with Liddy in Mexico fighting drug cartels and with the DEA and DOJ for 30 years. Tough. As. Nails. Popcorn.

I'd like to see Obama, Holder, Rahmbo, Axelrod and the rest of the dipshits in his administration in Sheriff Joe's tent city with the pink panties on.

We Zonies love Sheriff Joe!

512 lurking faith  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:58:12am

re: #510 nyc redneck

re: #502 baldeagle

Totally agree. Telling the military: "You have a friend in the White House."

Oh, yeah? Who might that be? 'Cause it sure isn't you, WAB, nor you, BH0.

/with friends like these...

513 baldeagle  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 10:58:50am

Maybe a little off thread but still a security concern,,,over at Atlas Shrugs,,,comment on the Os cutting of funds for the Federal Flight Deck Officers program[Pilots being able to "carry" on the flight deck of commercial carriers]. He wants this country to fail and lose to any and all enemies,,whether it be political,or economic, or militarily,,,I feel sick.

514 soxfan4life  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 11:00:01am

re: #512 lurking faith

re: #502 baldeagle

Totally agree. Telling the military: "You have a friend in the White House."

Oh, yeah? Who might that be? 'Cause it sure isn't you, WAB, nor you, BH0.

/with friends like these...

It must be everyone's friend Joe Biden. So glad I'm prior service and don't have to deal with this administrations attitude toward the military, Clinton was bad enough.

515 soxfan4life  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 11:01:05am

re: #513 baldeagle

Easier for his Islamic brothers to use them as weapons again this way.

516 Colonel Panik  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 11:01:44am

re: #513 baldeagle

Maybe a little off thread but still a security concern,,,over at Atlas Shrugs,,,comment on the Os cutting of funds for the Federal Flight Deck Officers program[Pilots being able to "carry" on the flight deck of commercial carriers]. He wants this country to fail and lose to any and all enemies,,whether it be political,or economic, or militarily,,,I feel sick.

That's just f'in swell. He's going to release the terrorists from Gitmo, take away pilots firearms, and I'll STILL have to take off my shoes at the airport.

I think my Obama Outrage Counter just overloaded.

517 baldeagle  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 11:05:55am

re: #515 soxfan4life

Easier for his Islamic brothers to use them as weapons again this way.

Exactly, it is getting to the point that I do not even want to read anything anymore,,,,,every word out of his mouth drips with deceit. Go Red Sox[originally from MASS,,always a Sox fan]

518 Dreader1962  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 11:07:09am

re: #459 VioletTiger

I really believe that the long-term plan is to re-institute the draft. One of the biggest expenses in an all-volunteer force is pay and benefits. These are continually offered as inducements to enlist and reenlist, and bonuses are used to channel recruits into the less 'comfortable' skills such as infantry, artillery, combat engineer, etc.

With a draft, not only do you have a ready-made force pool, but you can also direct people where you need them. For a bean-counter, this has massive savings, because you can also nix education benefits for when their 'obligation' runs out.

Of course, I don't believe that the military would be improved at all by this; further, based upon my 20-year experience in the Army and the social policies incorporated into the military (not to mention the destruction of the authority of the Non-Commissioned Officer), there is nowhere near the necessary level of discipline to 'force' draftees to put themselves on the line. Now we rely on the oath voluntarily given and the personal values held by each soldier (as well as their bond to each other) to create combat-effective units. I can't see a bunch of draftees doing what is needed on the battlefield.

519 'Nam Grunt  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 11:11:12am

This what you are demeaning Obama asshole!

520 Cygnus  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 11:13:29am

re: #406 jcm

No worries.........

Puke. Gag. Pass the brain bleach, please.

521 Dreader1962  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 11:18:16am

re: #509 'Nam Grunt

God Bless You, my arms and wrists look like a road map to hell too. LOL

What really pisses me off is that I remember during the TAP (Transition Assistance Program) when I retired there was a speaker that encourage everyone to put in for disability - even if it was for baldness or if the retiree blew his knees out playing basketball. I was horrified that this was encouraged and know of many people who lined up at the trough - where do they think the money comes from?

I had a jump accident that broke 3 vertebrae, my hip and my tailbone in '94. I lost 1 1/2 inches of height (compression fractures are a bitch!) and still have some back and leg problems to this day, but I didn't put in for disability. After my accident, I maneuvered to have my permanent profile 'lost' because I wanted to complete my career. I got with a 'leg' doctor and asked if it he could lift my 'No Jumping' profile (he thought it was a limit on PT) and got 'back in the saddle', jumping within 4 months of my injury.

I'm on TRICARE now and trying to see how long I can go without really being disabled - when I get to that point, I won't expect any coverage for the past, but now I'm wondering if there's going to be anything there from VA for veterans.

522 Cygnus  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 11:19:35am

re: #489 jvic

This is more disgusting than the Lewinsky scandal.

This time, the vets are the ones getting screwed.

523 mad mullah  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 11:25:01am

I am not in the military but I sure am glad that I don't have to call that person commander in chief. How any veterans or persons currently serving in the military can respect that community organizer is beyond me.

I know that moonbats who were dropped on their heads when they were infants had a habit of calling Bush commander in thief, but I believe that the description is much more fitting for the current clown which is temporarily inhabiting the White House. With the few extra bucks that Obama saves by throwing veterans under the bus, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he now gives even more funds to groups of people who hate Americans, such as the terror loving palestinians, which he has already promised to give considerable donations to.

524 'Nam Grunt  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 11:25:13am

re: #521 Dreader1962

My main disability is my back from falling out of a chopper in a hot LZ when it had to bank, knocked the breath out of me upon impact but I LRRP'ed on after regaining consciousness and my bud's dragged me out of the line of fire to the tree line, I was 20 then but it caught up to me and now my spine is deteriorating because of it but I still can Soldier. ;-)

525 baldeagle  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 11:26:20am

Sure,, there are abuses of the system and there will always be abuses of any system,,,,but that is part of the understanding/contract with the troops. To anything less is criminal,,,,oh, I forgot,,,,,we are talking about a Chicago thug here,,,,lost my head.

526 Dreader1962  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 11:29:53am

re: #524 'Nam Grunt

Here's a question - how much money has gone into medical treatment of the Guantanamo 'enemy combatants' 'persons with differing worldviews'?

Will they be billed for this treatment?

/sarc

527 'Nam Grunt  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 11:33:08am

re: #526 Dreader1962

Oh noooooo, they are not terrorists, or enemy combatants anymore, they deserve more than us Veterans because we are the cause of them according to the moonbats!

528 [deleted]  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 12:04:04pm
529 funky chicken  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 12:17:00pm

re: #506 johnnyreb

This is really going to affect me and a bunch of people I know. We are all disabled to some extent and have private health insurance. I can pretty much guarantee if my private health care starts getting billed when I go to the VA they are going to pull the "pre-existing" condition clause in our policies, and we are going to be shoved into the middle of one huge war about who pays.

I shudder to think what is going to happen when I have both of my knees replaced by the VA.

I suggest you do it ASAP, as in now.

530 ShalomMets  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 12:35:57pm

So Let's see if I have this right...

A solider, who was wounded in the line of duty at the behest of the US Governmet and in defense of the American People, will have to pay for his/her medical care for that injury through private insurance in order to fund the medical care payments made by public funds for US based civilians, who more likely than not caused their own injuries.

Only in a left-winger's mind is this just.

531 sofa  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 12:58:45pm

re: #8 jcm

Leftists loathe the United States Armed Forces.

Leftists loathe the United States of America, the Constitution, Bill of Rights, capitalism, western civilzation, and the rugged individualism that characterizes her peoples.

532 Wm T Sherman  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 1:09:27pm

I have not lived in the D.C. area for 15 years or so. You know Lafayette Park, that little area across the street from the White House? Back when I lived there, various people, usually cranks, put up signs and displays there. Is that still the case?

I wonder how a narcissist like O would react to a giant sign that said "President Ass-Clown: Resign," or something similar? Perhaps a video camera could be kept handy in case of a crackdown.

533 baconeatingkaffir  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 1:13:35pm

This is brilliant. The O-face is so busy with his socialist bullshit agenda while throwing veterans under the bus. I'm so glad to be out of the military. My brother is still in and talking about how jacked up it was when Mrs. Zilch visited Ft. Bragg.
While all this horseshit goes on, Russia is going to rearm bigtime! Medvedev Orders Fullscale Russian Rearmament

534 mattm  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 1:28:10pm

These are the people that I have NO problem paying for medical insurance with my tax dollars.

535 Pupdawg  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 2:01:48pm

re: #2 rawmuse

It frees up more money to give to ACORN.

...and to give 900 million to a billion to the Palestinians who Mr. Teleprompter feels need money for their Hamas military.

This ass-clown president demonstrates that he hates America with such neglect and abuse of our wounded veterans. He has every intention of weakening our military, homeland security, CIA and other intelligence resources.

We as a nation are in a world of hurt!

536 rockman  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 2:33:40pm

What next; make them pay for their own boots and bullets?

537 horse  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 2:59:50pm

- gas tank full: check
- GPS programed: check
- provisions and clothing packed: check
- drive to DC and protest in front of White House: awaiting the command

THIS SHALL NOT PASS...

538 David IV of Georgia  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 4:12:55pm

It is inconceivable that this would be on the table—even if he is planning some "bait and switch" maneuver to get some less onerous bill passed.

If vets start using private insurance for service injuries, how long until insurance companies begin to raise premiums on servicemen to counter the additional costs?

I'm not sure BHO can clearly distinguish the difference between a F-15 strafing an enemy column and a group of drive by gangbangers shooting up a Taco Bell™.

Although this may be a bit overboard, a bit hyperbolic—it seems he wishes either a civil war or mass defections from the military.

539 restitutor orbis  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 5:16:16pm

Not to sound stupid, but I am kind of confused as to what all of the uproar is about. It says in some articles that Obama wants to force private insurance to pay for service related injury. However the concern seems to be that the vets will have to pay for their own......

I have read 3 different articles on this, and still don't understand how this proposal will work. Just looking for some clarification.

And I'm not trying to defend Obama, I really think he is capable of doing something like this......just want some answers

540 phred.s  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 5:18:48pm

This plan, at least what I've read, differs little from the third party payer already in effect on the active duty side.

1. Soldiers are not required to have third party insurance.

2. If they do, then they are Congressionally obligated to provide the insurance information (e.g. a spouse has insurance through a job).

3. The government then bills the third party insurance.

This has been the policy for the past ten or so years I've worked in military healthcare. The precedent was set in Congressional law and lawsuits going back some ten years ago, or so.

That said, when the balloon first floated, I knew it it would create a stink. But it is little different then policies in effect on the active side, which is probably where Secretary Shinseki got the idea.

541 restitutor orbis  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 5:20:28pm

re: #521 Dreader1962

What really pisses me off is that I remember during the TAP (Transition Assistance Program) when I retired there was a speaker that encourage everyone to put in for disability - even if it was for baldness or if the retiree blew his knees out playing basketball. I was horrified that this was encouraged and know of many people who lined up at the trough - where do they think the money comes from?

I remember the same thing. Somehow it just didn't seem right.

542 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 5:23:19pm

re: #539 restitutor orbis

a proposal to force private insurance companies to pay for the treatment of military veterans who have suffered service-connected disabilities and injuries.

"Service-connected disabilities and injuries" include those from wounds received in combat.

Put your thinking cap on.

These veterans went into, or were sent into, harm's way by the government -- therefore, ultimately by the American People.

Do we owe them something?

It's as simple as that.

543 restitutor orbis  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 5:33:12pm

re: #542 pre-Boomer Marine brat

So Vets will in essence have to have their own private insurance, even though the injuries will be covered by their policy? And of course nothing raises your rates like missing a limb or having brain damage..... Got it...

I was under the impression that vets would be able to be treated by a private provider for free........by direction of the government.

Now i understand. Thank you

I'll let the thinking cap comment slide.

544 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 5:35:54pm

re: #543 restitutor orbis

So Vets will in essence have to have their own private insurance, even though the injuries will be covered by their policy? And of course nothing raises your rates like missing a limb or having brain damage..... Got it...

I was under the impression that vets would be able to be treated by a private provider for free........by direction of the government.

Now i understand. Thank you

I'll let the thinking cap comment slide.

I apologize for "thinking cap" sounding snarky. Looking at it now, I realize that it did. Wasn't intended that way. Sorry.

545 Dreader1962  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 5:59:19pm

re: #540 phred.s

What you're referring to is an active duty member whose spouse is covered by a third-party insurance. The active duty member normally derives treatment through the military hospital/clinic system (which is why they don't typically have private insurance). A veteran normally is working for a company that has its own insurance and may vary premiums based upon 'pre-existing conditions' (that is, wounds received while they were on active duty).

This is not the same as the policy you are referring to for active duty soldiers.

What aspect of 'military healthcare' do you work in?

546 restitutor orbis  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 6:02:22pm

re: #544 pre-Boomer Marine brat

No biggie.
Bottom line: is my analysis correct? I think I'm starting to understand the real ramifications now..
Where is Shin-sucki through all of this?I thought he rode to prominence by bashing Bush's alleged mistreatment of vets......well that and the whole Iraq troop levels thing.

547 curt9988  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 6:16:05pm

This is just ... bizarre. It's a joke, right? No one can be stupid enough to even entertain this idea, right? RIGHT?

548 phred.s  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 6:30:47pm

re: #545 Dreader1962

Dreader, perhaps.

Just strikes me that's the type of program they're trying to implement. How that translates (increased premium costs or no coverage) for someone not covered by the MHS is out there. I guess the issue is whether veterans will be required to provide third party information; can they be denied care if they don't; and will carriers be penalized for dropping veterans who do. Not sure.

Me: 67A-70H, medical operations officer, Army type. It's been awhile since I've worked in a TDA, but the program still sounds familiar from my clinic XO days.

549 katemaclaren  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 6:42:49pm

YOu know, this seems like a way to get private insurance companies to drop out of the health care biz. It reminds me of mandatory car insurance in places where the accident rate is high--the companies who want to do business in the state are forced to take on the bad drivers as well as the good ones.
Seems like a step toward Socialism--people will have to turn to a government provided insurer because all the companies have been scared out of the game.

550 Fighton03  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 7:16:34pm

re: #540 phred.s

This plan, at least what I've read, differs little from the third party payer already in effect on the active duty side.

1. Soldiers are not required to have third party insurance.

2. If they do, then they are Congressionally obligated to provide the insurance information (e.g. a spouse has insurance through a job).

3. The government then bills the third party insurance.

This has been the policy for the past ten or so years I've worked in military healthcare. The precedent was set in Congressional law and lawsuits going back some ten years ago, or so.

That said, when the balloon first floated, I knew it it would create a stink. But it is little different then policies in effect on the active side, which is probably where Secretary Shinseki got the idea.

wasn't that ONLY for non-combat or duty related issues treated by the VA?

551 Fighton03  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 7:18:58pm

It's a tribute to the character of our military that this duplicitous douche bag can travel and sleep safely at night.

552 phred.s  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 7:35:30pm

re: #550 Fighton03

Fighton, my original post referenced the third party payer program on the AD side. That is for all treatments: basically, the PAD officers/NCOs passed out the forms at the records desk and passed them off to managed care. What happened after that (collections, etc) was unseen.

I'm not an expert on the VA: my original point is that the system seems similar to what we have on the AD side. That said, I've been to the TMC several times in the past year and I've not been asked to fill out a TPP form.

I'm not here to praise Secretary Shinseki; but I'm also not here to bury him. Whatever the merits of a third party payer system, it really makes for a bad meme. Probably a self inflicted wound the VA will regret.

553 Fighton03  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 7:50:03pm

re: #552 phred.s

Fighton, my original post referenced the third party payer program on the AD side. That is for all treatments: basically, the PAD officers/NCOs passed out the forms at the records desk and passed them off to managed care. What happened after that (collections, etc) was unseen.

I'm not an expert on the VA: my original point is that the system seems similar to what we have on the AD side. That said, I've been to the TMC several times in the past year and I've not been asked to fill out a TPP form.

I'm not here to praise Secretary Shinseki; but I'm also not here to bury him. Whatever the merits of a third party payer system, it really makes for a bad meme. Probably a self inflicted wound the VA will regret.

My father has a 30% disability from military service (non-combat though incurred during active duty). At no time has his treatment been passed on to his private insurance (at least he has never received an EOB or other notification). He has nerve damage and partial loss of use of his hand and has required surgeries and therapy to try to limit the degeneration. These injuries were incurred in the 70's so maybe there is an effective date or something. I'm also familiar with a case of Myloma treatment (ultimately unsuccessful) for a Navy veteran with access to private insurance but not showing similar charge backs to his private insurance. I'm not calling you out, I'm an outside observer to this. But it smells.....badly.

554 phred.s  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:13:29pm

re: #553 Fighton03

Fighton, I'm new here, but a longtime lurker. I don't mind being called out.

If your Dad was on active duty (and in the Army. I can't speak for Navy/Air Force), circa 1999-2001, he would have seen a big push towards third party payer. Again, on the active duty side. If he left the service, or retired out before that time frame, then he never saw the push for third party payer. Again, this was an active duty (and possibly service specific) push.

The VA is proposing the implementation of something we've tried (with varying success) solely on active duty Soldiers. And because Secretary Shinseki was an Army senior leader in that timeframe, it makes sense he'd be familiar with the program. Secretary Peake, his predecessor and retired Army Surgeon General, never brought up third party payer in his tenure at the VA. He may have concluded (speculation alert) that third party payer did not work, based on his experience as a TSG. Sec Peake and Sec Shinseki come from very different backgrounds (though, interestingly enough, both started out as Infantry platoon leaders in Vietnam).

555 funky chicken  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:28:31pm

My husband is active duty Air Force and approaching retirement. He's never seen third party insurance. Tri-Care may refer him for treatment off base, but all of his bills are paid by the government.

He's a pilot and is forbidden from using providers not assigned to him by the military unless it's a real emergency and he can go to the nearest ER. But even there all his bills go through the AD side of Tri-Care.

If I had private insurance Tri-Care would want to get the private insurance to pay for my stuff and for the kids first, but not for my husband.

556 Fighton03  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:41:17pm

re: #554 phred.s

My dad's service was LONG before that, and so was the majority of his treatment. He still occassionally uses the VA, but tries to avoid it whenever possible due to the insane level of bureaucracy. He compares the DMV to the VA FAVORABLY. The myloma case OTH, was 2006-2008. The quality of the experience, however does not remove the responsibility to provide that service.

I suspect that those men started off somewhere else, and became platoon leaders. At least, that's how the vietnam vets I know describe that period of their lives. I've probably inherited a significant amount of distrust of the REMF establishment having grown up as an enlisted dependent through the 70's. Regardless of the period, this is BAD policy IMHO.

557 phred.s  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 8:47:16pm

re: #556 Fighton03

Fighton, the 70's sucked: but I will always thank those who returned from Vietnam and built the professional service we have today. As a dues paying REMF (though I was unclear on the meaning of the term in Iraq) I hope we do better now than then.

Funky Chicken, I remember the rule applying to AD, at least on the Army side. Mileage may vary.

Here's the relevant Title:

[Link: law.justia.com...]

Not ducking and hiding, but early PT and another day in the salt mines.

Charles, et al, keep up what you do.

558 Fighton03  Tue, Mar 17, 2009 9:52:13pm

re: #557 phred.s

LOL...yeah..I hear there is a new phrase now. Dad and my FIL had open minds. If you paid your dues, you weren't really a REMF. As I recall, it was as much a mindset (normally involving ones 'mind' and head being 'set' firmly in their nether regions) as a duty location.

559 Pupdawg  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 7:50:13am

re: #1 faraway

What is the real reason Obama is doing this? I don't get it.

The 'real' Obama has been exposed by many people before, during and after the election. We are seeing the 'real' Obama in his actions. This proposed action is a prime example of who he really is and has been all along. He is a classic left wing Democrat who will in the same breath say he supports the troops yet acts to cut funding for their missions and possibly soon their medical care. Democrats think that the 'I voted against the war in Iraq before I voted for it' statement means something. It means something alright but not anything close to what they think. It means they want all things both ways. They want to take no blame yet steal credit even when it is not there. They actually are masters at redefining what 'is' is. Their 'truths' are many times nowhere near it. Democrats / liberals live in if not constant denial of facts very close to it.
The 'real' Obama actually hates America, her history, her succes in the world, her armed forces, her form of government and her prosperity. He especially hates her prosperity. If you truly hate something, how can you love or appreciate its success or prosperity. You want to destroy that which you hate or at least damage or at the very minmum change it. Obama will actively throw the America many of us love under his bus in as many ways as he can in 4 years or God forbid, in 8 years. He absolutely loves Socialism/Marxism/Communism and deeply admires those EU countries that have gone down these paths. He wants America to do the same. He actually believes Government should rule our lives. He will expand Government in as many ways as he can. We will become a nation of entitlements under Obama. He will ultimately and eventually side with the Muslims politically and spiritually and has said as much in his books.
The difficulty for us where Obama is concerned is the ability to recognize his lies from his truths. The 'real' Obama will lie if it provides a little time to vacate the area. The 'real' Obama is there. All we need do is see and hear. His bus continues to roll unhindered by the MSM and there is plenty of room under it. The wounded veterans should brace themselves. Our military, active and veterans, are definitely under Obama's bus. There are no seats on it for the things he hates, like America.
We have elected a president who hates us. If you hate America, you hate us.

560 nines09  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:22:03pm

Obama should pay his own health care when he leaves office. As should every last one of our so called leaders. They should also get just what the average American gets in so called social security benefits. The wolf is behind you.

561 jvic  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:31:08pm

Obama dropped the plan today.

I stand by my previous comment. The man has revealed his true colors in a way that cannot be painted over.

562 mindy1  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 6:09:53pm

Good news-He decided it was a bad idea-got lots of pressure form the american legion-YAY for them :)

563 Rusty Bill  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 6:22:53pm

After being hammered, both by veteran's groups and by the blogsphere, "The One" has backed off. Pelosi (CBHN) says it was because of the "respect" that he has for the military. Ha! If he - or she - truly respected the military, the idea would never have been floated in the first place - the entire concept would have been unthinkable. This needs to be remembered, not forgotten like last week's headlines.


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