Canada’s Science Minister: A Creationist?

Science • Views: 3,511

Is Canada’s Minister of State for Science and Technology a creationist?

In today’s news stories he’s trying to obfuscate the remarks that caused an uproar; the Globe and Mail calls it “clarifying:” Minister clarifies stand on evolution.

OTTAWA — Science minister Gary Goodyear now says he believes in evolution.

“Of course I do,” he told guest host Jane Taber during an appearance on the CTV program Power Play. “But it is an irrelevant question.”

That’s a different answer from the one Mr. Goodyear, a chiropractor and minister of state for science and technology, gave The Globe and Mail when asked the same thing during an interview published in Tuesday’s paper.

“I’m not going to answer that question. I am a Christian, and I don’t think anybody asking a question about my religion is appropriate,” he said at the time. “I do believe that just because you can’t see it under a microscope doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It could mean we don’t have a powerful enough microscope yet. So I’m not fussy on this business that we already know everything. … I think we need to recognize that we don’t know.”

Evoking religion in response to a question about evolution drew heavy criticism from people like Brian Alters, an expert in evolution at McGill University in Montreal, and Jim Turk, executive director of the Canadian Association of University Teachers.

On Tuesday, Mr. Goodyear said twice during the CTV interview that he did believe in evolution.

“We are evolving every year, every decade. That’s a fact, whether it is to the intensity of the sun, whether it is to, as a chiropractor, walking on cement versus anything else, whether it is running shoes or high heels, of course we are evolving to our environment. But that’s not relevant and that is why I refused to answer the question. The interview was about our science and tech strategy, which is strong.”

Based on these latest evasions, I’d say the answer is: yes, he’s a creationist, but he’s trying to avoid admitting it.

UPDATE at 3/18/09 1:46:54 pm:

This issue is not just an academic one, because Goodyear has been responsible for cutting funding for science programs—especially denying funding for the “Genome Canada” project, which could be directly related to his creationist beliefs.

In early 2009, Goodyear oversaw a series of contentious funding cuts for science programs, the most prominent being the lack of any funding for new projects for Genome Canada.

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919 comments
1 Shug  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:29:52pm

taqiacreationism

2 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:31:09pm
3 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:31:30pm

You can't have it both ways, Mr. Goodyear. You can't reject evolution without being seen as anti-evolution.

4 Ben Hur  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:31:32pm

It's Canada.

Who cares?

/

5 tackle  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:31:46pm

Do we have proof that he is going to push a Creationist agenda?

6 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:32:05pm

Thank God we're not the only country with loopy politicians.

7 Shug  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:32:32pm

Is he a straight chiropractor who believes he can realign the "life force"?

Does he believe in applied kinesiology?

Straight chiropractors are on par with new earth creationists. Belief in magic is not science

8 Ben Hur  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:32:44pm

I do not think humans are evolving any longer.

Natural selection no longer applies.

9 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:32:46pm

re: #4 Ben Hur

It's Canada.

Who cares?

/

That's nonsense. Canada is one of the most important countries in Southeast Asia.

10 tackle  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:33:15pm

Forget creationist. He's a chiropractor.
/

11 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:33:40pm

It's the same old flawed argument from ignorance, that refuses to take into account all the things that we DO know.

12 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:33:42pm

Here's a clue. His full name is Gary Good6000year

13 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:34:11pm

re: #4 Ben Hur

I'm not your friend, buddy! I'm not your buddy, guy! He's not your guy, friend...

14 Erik The Red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:34:34pm

re: #5 tackle

Do we have proof that he is going to push a Creationist agenda?

What part of this statement don't you understand?

I’m not going to answer that question. I am a Christian, and I don’t think anybody asking a question about my religion is appropriate,” he said at the time. “I do believe that just because you can’t see it under a microscope doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It could mean we don’t have a powerful enough microscope yet. So I’m not fussy on this business that we already know everything. ... I think we need to recognize that we don’t know.”

15 VioletTiger  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:34:41pm

re: #6 Occasional Reader

Thank God we're not the only country with loopy politicians.

Misery loves company.

16 Ben Hur  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:34:51pm

re: #13 ArchangelMichael

I'm not your friend, buddy! I'm not your buddy, guy! He's not your guy, friend...

What on Earth are you talking abooot?

17 KingKenrod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:35:13pm

Why doesn't the article ever state the question the minister was asked? The article says he was "asked the same question" but never states what the question is. Does anyone know?

18 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:35:24pm

re: #8 Ben Hur

I do not think humans are evolving any longer.

Natural selection no longer applies.

Natural environmental selection still applies, but, being slow, it is buried from most peoples' view by the much more rapid advance of social memetic evolution.

19 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:35:31pm

That's what you get when you call the position Science Minister.

20 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:35:40pm

Throw out this belief stuff. Faith is better. And anyway, if you can see something, even indirectly and imperfectly, you do not have to believe in it.

It is a strange and feeble Christianity that must buttress itself with recent dinosaurs and instant butterflys.

21 Maximu§  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:35:58pm

You mean he's a Christian?

In the name of Obama the Great, he needs to be tarred and feathered! In fact, drag his family out in the village square for a public flogging.

/

22 J.S.  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:36:10pm

I think this is really a non issue. Unless one can provide the evidence that somehow a "creationist" point of view is interfering with his ministry, then I say, "So what?" Seriously, where are we going with this? What's next, witch hunts? Let's ferret out all secret subscribers to Belief X, which for whatever reason, then becomes demonized. Or, hey, lets' have "loyalty tests" -- yeah, that's the ticket! gotta swear to upholding Religion X prior to entering public office -- is that where this is headed? Only, in today's political climate, instead of declaring loyalty to a religion, one needs to declare oneself an Atheist...then, everything's OK..(and that's what passes for "tolerance" in Canada).

23 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:37:13pm

re: #21 Maximu§

You mean he's a Christian?

In the name of Obama the Great, he needs to be tarred and feathered! In fact, drag his family out in the village square for a public flogging.

/

Umm...you can be a Christian without rejecting evolution. Just ask 1.6 billion Roman Catholics.

24 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:37:33pm
“But it is an irrelevant question.”

It's far from irrelevant, and it cuts to the very core of science education. Rejecting empirical data and the scientific method in favor of dogma will completely destroy all that the Scientific Revolution and the Enlightenment have blessed us with. Hundreds of years of progress, for nothing.

25 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:38:13pm

re: #22 J.S.

I think this is really a non issue. Unless one can provide the evidence that somehow a "creationist" point of view is interfering with his ministry, then I say, "So what?" Seriously, where are we going with this? What's next, witch hunts? Let's ferret out all secret subscribers to Belief X, which for whatever reason, then becomes demonized. Or, hey, lets' have "loyalty tests" -- yeah, that's the ticket! gotta swear to upholding Religion X prior to entering public office -- is that where this is headed? Only, in today's political climate, instead of declaring loyalty to a religion, one needs to declare oneself an Atheist...then, everything's OK..(and that's what passes for "tolerance" in Canada).

But he's Canada's frigging SCIENCE minister, for Chrissakes!

26 J.S.  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:38:38pm

re: #21 Maximu§

The only "religion" in Canada which gets a sterling pass and endless praises is Islam. (oh, and, of course, Atheism.)

27 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:38:44pm

re: #18 Salamantis

Natural environmental selection still applies, but, being slow, it is buried from most peoples' view by the much more rapid advance of social memetic evolution.

In any event, it's about to become moot; we're on the verge of direct manipulation of our own genetic code, which will in itself be... ah... interesting.

28 alegrias  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:39:10pm

OT

Sheperd Smith was naming names of those who took AIG campaign contributions, including Sen. Chris Dodd who took nearly $250,000.00. What a schmuck, Mr. his presidential run went nowhere, and he deserves to go into the trash heap of history.

Dodd was also a friend of Angelo Mozillo, Mr. Countryside crooked mortgage loan man.

29 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:39:46pm

re: #27 Occasional Reader

In any event, it's about to become moot; we're on the verge of direct manipulation of our own genetic code, which will in itself be... ah... interesting.

It's kinda hard to deny the existence of the horse when we're in the process of seizing its reins.

30 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:39:51pm

re: #4 Ben Hur

It's Canada.

Who cares?

/

You say that now, but just wait until Global WarmingTM turns Canada into the world's breadbasket.

31 J.S.  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:39:53pm

re: #25 Salamantis

Oh I see. So a Minister states a belief to which you disapprove, therefore he must resign. Yeah, got it. And next you'll be praising yourself for your "tolerance of diversity."

32 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:40:03pm

re: #22 J.S.

Only, in today's political climate, instead of declaring loyalty to a religion, one needs to declare oneself an Atheist...then, everything's OK..(and that's what passes for "tolerance" in Canada).


That's bullshit. The vast majority of Canadians are Christians.....

Roman Catholic 42.6%, Protestant 23.3% (including United Church 9.5%, Anglican 6.8%, Baptist 2.4%, Lutheran 2%), other Christian 4.4%, Muslim 1.9%, other and unspecified 11.8%, none 16% (2001 census)

Christians are not a persecuted minority.

34 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:40:26pm

re: #16 Ben Hur

The endless Canadian circular argument, eh...

35 freetoken  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:40:32pm

re: #22 J.S.

If you read up on some of the criticism in Canada, one of the issues is that he hasn't defended various science projects against cuts in the budget... as if he is half-hearted about his portfolio.

So the question is raised - does he have an internal bias against helping scientists, the overwhelming majority of whom would not agree with his views on the origins of life and subsequent development of life on Earth?

36 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:40:36pm

re: #28 alegrias

Did he mention McCain too?

37 J.S.  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:40:41pm

re: #32 Killgore Trout

You live here, eh?

38 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:40:44pm

re: #22 J.S.

Actually, upon a calmer read; I agree, I don't see a huge deal in Goodyear's comments.

39 yma o hyd  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:41:04pm

re: #18 Salamantis

Natural environmental selection still applies, but, being slow, it is buried from most peoples' view by the much more rapid advance of social memetic evolution.

Its p.d.q in viruses, though ...

40 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:41:31pm

re: #31 J.S.

Oh I see. So a Minister states a belief to which you disapprove, therefore he must resign. Yeah, got it. And next you'll be praising yourself for your "tolerance of diversity."

But his belief system rejects the very science of which he's supposed to be a national minister. It's like asking someone who doesn't believe in money to be a finance minister.

41 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:41:51pm

re: #37 J.S.

Take off, hoser. I'm from south of the border.

42 albusteve  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:41:54pm

re: #9 Occasional Reader

That's nonsense. Canada is one of the most important countries in Southeast Asia.

ha!....

43 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:42:00pm

re: #29 Salamantis

It's kinda hard to deny the existence of the horse when we're in the process of seizing its reins.

What I meant was that whether/to what degree homo sapiens is currently subjected to natural selection pressure is about to become moot.

44 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:42:10pm

re: #23 Salamantis

Umm...you can be a Christian without rejecting evolution. Just ask 1.6 billion Roman Catholics.

There's that many RCs? Wow. Any way we could get them to kick the 1billion Muslims butts and make them go away?
////

45 alegrias  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:42:11pm

re: #36 Killgore Trout

Did he mention McCain too?

* * *

Yes, McCain's campaign coffers took in AIG dollars:

$85K versus Obama's $130K and Dodd's $240K!~

46 acwgusa  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:42:16pm

OT

Obama wants more power over financial institutions like AIG

Yes, Your Majesty, King Obama. Coming right up, sir. Did you want to disarm the populace today or tomorrow before you destroy health care, gun ownership, personal incomes, the Constitution?

47 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:42:23pm

OT

Cap my carbon & trade my ass, Frrrrrip!

48 J.S.  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:42:32pm

re: #35 freetoken

Well, then, obviously, if he hasn't according to you defended Program X (and you can relate that reluctance to a "creationist" agenda) then OBVIOUSLY that's FAIR GAME. It is NOT fair game to allege that so-and-so believes X, therefore let's "get him." Can you comprehend the difference?

49 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:42:41pm

Is it to early for a beer? The popcorn is going to need something to wash it down.

50 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:42:49pm

Forgive me for straying off topic. The TSA has announced that it is ramping up airport security.
Their alert screeners will now be selecting air travelers at the gate for additional scrutiny, including tossing luggage.
THey say that this will confuse terrorists.
What are the odds that they will give additonal scrutiny to anybody who looks, oh I don't know, Middle Eastern?

51 Maximu§  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:42:57pm

re: #23 Salamantis

Umm...you can be a Christian without rejecting evolution. Just ask 1.6 billion Roman Catholics.

I am Roman Catholic and a proud one at that, but it looks to me like any politician who admits being Christian will get dragged through the mud until they:

1) Surrender and accept Satan as their savior.

2) Pubically commit suicide.

3) Throw their religion under the bus.

4) Find another job.

52 tackle  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:43:07pm

re: #14 Erik The Red

So we know he's a Christian, and he's clearly being dodgy about an evolution question. I'm not saying he's not a Creationist, I'm just wondering if we should start wringing our hands about something. If he introduces an Creationist agenda, then that would be wrong, especially given his position. But if it's a private belief?

53 J.S.  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:43:11pm

re: #40 Salamantis

EVDIENCE! Provide the evidence to back up your claims.

54 albusteve  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:43:15pm

re: #49 Bubblehead II

Is it to early for a beer? The popcorn is going to need something to wash it down.

nevah

55 yma o hyd  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:43:16pm

re: #20 Ojoe

Throw out this belief stuff. Faith is better. And anyway, if you can see something, even indirectly and imperfectly, you do not have to believe in it.

It is a strange and feeble Christianity that must buttress itself with recent dinosaurs and instant butterflys.

Yes, absolutle! Well said!

And while we're at it, lets also throw out this 'I believe in evolution'.
Evolution is not a religion, afaik.

56 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:43:28pm

re: #41 Killgore Trout

Take off, hoser. I'm from south of the border.

You live here?

57 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:43:33pm

re: #44 CyanSnowHawk

Such a gauntlet has been thrown down from the Islamic side IIRC.

58 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:43:44pm

re: #21 Maximu§

It's not about him being a Christian. It's about the Minister of Science and Technology being a creationist. Read again every word Charles wrote about it.
He didn't mention Christian or Christianity once.

59 alegrias  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:43:54pm

T

But his belief system rejects the very science of which he's supposed to be a national minister. It's like asking someone who doesn't believe in money to be a finance minister.

* * * *
That is not much different than people electing someone who rejects the very idea of America, to lead America.

Not permissible, but shit happened.

60 Erik The Red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:43:58pm

re: #49 Bubblehead II

Is it to early for a beer? The popcorn is going to need something to wash it down.

I am already drinking scotch.

61 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:44:25pm

re: #51 Maximu§

I am Roman Catholic and a proud one at that, but it looks to me like any politician who admits being Christian will get dragged through the mud until they:

1) Surrender and accept Satan as their savior.

2) Pubically commit suicide.

3) Throw their religion under the bus.

4) Find another job.

Creationist and Christian are not synonymous. You, as a Roman Catholic, of all people, should recognize this.

62 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:44:25pm

re: #55 yma o hyd

Thank you. Now I will go eat a small lunch.

63 albusteve  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:44:48pm

re: #56 Occasional Reader

You live here?

that crazy place pops up all the time now....what have I been missing?

64 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:44:50pm

re: #46 acwgusa

OT

Obama wants more power over financial institutions like AIG

Yes, Your Majesty, King Obama. Coming right up, sir. Did you want to disarm the populace today or tomorrow before you destroy health care, gun ownership, personal incomes, the Constitution?

His administration already owns 80% of the damn thing, how much more control does he want?

65 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:44:55pm

This story has nothing to do with Goodyear being a Christian, and everything to do with him being a creationist. The two are NOT synonymous.

66 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:45:26pm

re: #53 J.S.

EVDIENCE! Provide the evidence to back up your claims.

Didn't freetoken already do this in #35?

67 acwgusa  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:46:05pm

re: #64 CyanSnowHawk

His administration already owns 80% of the damn thing, how much more control does he want?

Total and utter control over everything in the United States.

68 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:46:57pm

re: #54 albusteve

The potential for a melt down is strong in this thread.

69 Buck  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:47:03pm

Doesn't mean he is a crack pot.

Or that it will effect his work.

Darwin was a creationist,,, until he wasn't.

70 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:47:11pm

Really? No one has said BLAME CANADA! Really?

Nice job with LOL, BTW.

71 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:47:14pm

re: #63 albusteve

that crazy place pops up all the time now....what have I been missing?

Mini golf with Pedro...
Cheap ass souvenires...
Fireworks that make your neighbors call 9/11...

72 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:47:22pm

re: #67 acwgusa

Total and utter control over everything in the United States.

He can kiss my shiny metal ass!

73 Gella  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:47:30pm

song from "South Park" the movie kicks in for some reason

74 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:47:44pm

re: #71 SasquatchOnSteroids

Mini golf with Pedro...
Cheap ass souvenires...
Fireworks that make your neighbors call 9/11...

9/11. what a maroon..

75 albusteve  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:47:59pm

re: #71 SasquatchOnSteroids

Mini golf with Pedro...
Cheap ass souvenires...
Fireworks that make your neighbors call 9/11...

wow!...how do I get there!...woohoo!

76 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:48:16pm

re: #51 Maximu§

any politician who admits being Christian will get dragged through the mud until they:

1) Surrender and accept Satan as their savior.

2) Pubically commit suicide.

I think you're maybe just slightly overstating your case.

77 Erik The Red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:48:22pm

re: #52 tackle

So we know he's a Christian, and he's clearly being dodgy about an evolution question. I'm not saying he's not a Creationist, I'm just wondering if we should start wringing our hands about something. If he introduces an Creationist agenda, then that would be wrong, especially given his position. But if it's a private belief?

Private or public doesn't matter. If he believes in creationism it will have an impact on his future decisions.

He is the Minister of Science. If he believes in creationism make him a minister of religion.

78 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:48:52pm

re: #71 SasquatchOnSteroids

Fireworks that make your neighbors call 9/11...

Pedro's Fireworks! (Does yours?)

79 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:48:54pm

re: #68 Bubblehead II

The potential for a melt down is strong in this thread.

Charles had to post the "Christian doesn't mean Creationist" disclaimer before comment 100%. Never a good sign.

80 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:49:19pm

re: #77 Erik The Red

Private or public doesn't matter. If he believes in creationism it will have an impact on his future decisions.

He is the Minister of Science. If he believes in creationism make him a minister of religion.

Except that only a minority of religious adherents believe in creationism.

81 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:49:28pm

re: #73 Gella

Cause of me...that's the reason.

82 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:49:42pm

re: #76 Occasional Reader

I think you're maybe just slightly overstating your case.

A little hyperbole never hurt anyone.
/

83 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:49:54pm

re: #77 Erik The Red

He is the Minister of Science. If he believes in creationism make him a minister of religion.

And I alos think you're maybe just slightly overstating your case.

That's one yellow card for each side. Resume play.

84 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:50:09pm

re: #60 Erik The Red

I may have to get the Crown Royal if it gets interesting.

85 Erik The Red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:50:39pm

re: #80 Salamantis

Except that only a minority of religious adherents believe in creationism.

Fair enough. Fire the asshole.

86 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:50:40pm

re: #79 CyanSnowHawk

Charles had to post the "Christian doesn't mean Creationist" disclaimer before comment 100%. Never a good sign.

100%? WTF am I doing?

87 Maximu§  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:50:53pm

re: #61 Salamantis

Creationist and Christian are not synonymous. You, as a Roman Catholic, of all people, should recognize this.

Ok, ok I get the point.....retract your claws.

Let me say in Goodyears defence that he made a good point in saying "we don’t know everything.” because we don't. The day you think you know it all....is the day you realize you don't know S**T!

88 clgood  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:51:09pm

A Chiropractor in charge of science?

It really doesn't matter what he thinks of evolution: He's already a quack.

89 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:51:28pm

re: #84 Bubblehead II

I may have to get the Crown Royal if it gets interesting.

That's not very Chivas-alrous behavior.

90 J.S.  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:51:34pm

re: #66 Salamantis

No. He did not. You have to be able to LINK a CREATIONIST belief with a non-funding of Program X -- do you see how that wouild work (my keyboard is wacky, insert a question mark at the end there). For example, let us say that Minister X decides to spend money on creating a Creationisrt Museum -- or decides to stop funding stem cell research -- and this policies are clearly linked to a Creationist Agenda -- then, by all means, go ballistic. But if you cannot provide the links, cannot provide the EVIDENCE, then you are engaging (imo) in a withhunt with bogus assertions, smearing etc. Again, are you really willing to argue that an alleged Creationist CANNOT serve in a government post (again, insert question mark). Do you see this...

91 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:52:06pm

re: #7 Shug

Is he a straight chiropractor who believes he can realign the "life force"?

Does he believe in applied kinesiology?

Straight chiropractors are on par with new earth creationists. Belief in magic is not science

I noticed that too. As long as he keeps his loony theories out of the workplace, I don't care about them.

92 JamesR  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:52:52pm

The Globe and Mail is rabidly left wing, the minister belongs to the Conservative Party of Canada. I take most of what I read in the Globe with a big grain of salt so I'll give the minister the benefit of the doubt for now.

93 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:53:14pm

re: #77 Erik The Red

Private or public doesn't matter. If he believes in creationism it will have an impact on his future decisions.

He is the Minister of Science. If he believes in creationism make him a minister of religion.

At it's heart the ID/Creationist agenda is anti-scientific. Anyone who is in a so-called scientific position like this gentleman- I think it's highly relevant when their spiritual beliefs clash with their job. They don't "believe" in science, so what are they doing seeking positions such as this? It's the radical left's agenda from the other side of the aisle- they're trying to break down science from the inside.

94 Dianna  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:53:20pm
Based on these latest evasions, I’d say the answer is: yes, he’s a creationist, but he’s trying to avoid admitting it.

I can't tell, probably because I'm so stressed right now that I can't stop coughing. But if he'd simply said that he saw no conflict between his faith and science, he'd have been a whole lot better off.

95 Oh no...Sand People!  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:53:29pm

re: #27 Occasional Reader

In any event, it's about to become moot; we're on the verge of direct manipulation of our own genetic code, which will in itself be... ah... interesting.

"Spread the health...."

96 SasquatchOnSteroids  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:53:31pm

re: #75 albusteve

wow!...how do I get there!...woohoo!

Stopped there for gas once. Kid had to go to the bathroom.
Had the daddy mags right along the wall next to the restrooms.
Didn't like that, how am I supposed to grab one totin' my kid to the john ?

97 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:53:35pm

re: #7 Shug

Is he a straight chiropractor who believes he can realign the "life force"?

Does he believe in applied kinesiology?

Straight chiropractors are on par with new earth creationists. Belief in magic is not science

Ugh, I didn't even notice the chiropracty bit.

Oh, Canada... how could you?

98 Erik The Red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:53:41pm

re: #89 Occasional Reader

That's not very Chivas-alrous behavior.

I am walking down the road with Johnnie.

99 alegrias  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:54:08pm

That dinosaur with anti-American tendencies, former Pres. Jimmy Carter, is such a fossil, I can't believe he was invited to the White House today, to talk his crappy theories of how to evolve America down to a more primitive state.

100 J.S.  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:54:46pm

re: #92 JamesR

Exactly. It is political fodder for the rabid Leftists...Now instead of screaming, BUSH IS A WAR CRIMINAL. It has become X IS A CREATIONIST!

101 Dianna  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:54:57pm

re: #94 Dianna

I can't tell, probably because I'm so stressed right now that I can't stop coughing. But if he'd simply said that he saw no conflict between his faith and science, he'd have been a whole lot better off.

Um, I should have added, "If he could truthfully say".

Sorry. Dumb error.

102 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:55:05pm

re: #98 Erik The Red

I am walking down the road with Johnnie.

Look, before you complain about the mote in my eye, why not remove the Jim Beam from your own?

103 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:55:06pm

Read the end of this thread (from #315 on) to see what hazards creationism in a government science ministry could pose for the pursuit of the very science that is the ministry's purview:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

104 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:55:10pm

re: #79 CyanSnowHawk

Yep. 1000 quadloos that there will be at least one meltdown.

105 sharon  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:55:44pm

He's a chiropractor, as profession based on little science. 'Nuff said.

106 tackle  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:55:47pm

I just think we need to be careful before stating that someone's private beliefs eliminate them from holding certain positions. That's discrimination, even if those "private beliefs" are crazy and/or stupid.
I understand that this would be akin to putting an atheist in over, as you say a "ministry of religion", but I know atheists who are very protective and respectful of those who don't share their beliefs.
If he is indeed a creationist and that is influencing his job negatively, then throw him out.

107 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:55:51pm

re: #87 Maximu§

Ok, ok I get the point.....retract your claws.

Let me say in Goodyears defence that he made a good point in saying "we don’t know everything.” because we don't. The day you think you know it all....is the day you realize you don't know S**T!

See my comment #11.

108 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:56:01pm

re: #88 clgood

Chiropractors are awesome!

"You see, Osteopath and Chiropractor are quite different, because of the spelling."
-Eddie Izzard

109 freetoken  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:56:21pm

re: #90 J.S.

Though not related to Goodyear per se, I just posted a spin-off link (two, really) about previous funding decisions (by the Canadian board that grants some of the funds that go to support research in colleges) which appear to specifically address whether these beliefs (in creationism, etc.) do affect funding decisions.

110 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:56:50pm

Gotta run. Later.

111 J.S.  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:57:24pm

re: #103 Salamantis

Yes, of course, but note that that is all speculation operative word speculation.

112 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:58:44pm

re: #100 J.S.

Exactly. It is political fodder for the rabid Leftists...Now instead of screaming, BUSH IS A WAR CRIMINAL. It has become X IS A CREATIONIST!

So you think Charles is suffering from Creationist Derangement Syndrome or is otherwise a rabid leftist?

113 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:58:54pm

re: #102 Occasional Reader

Oh crud, I created a pun thread.

114 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:59:04pm

re: #106 tackle

I just think we need to be careful before stating that someone's private beliefs eliminate them from holding certain positions. That's discrimination, even if those "private beliefs" are crazy and/or stupid.
I understand that this would be akin to putting an atheist in over, as you say a "ministry of religion", but I know atheists who are very protective and respectful of those who don't share their beliefs.
If he is indeed a creationist and that is influencing his job negatively, then throw him out.

There is nothing scientific about creationism. Creationism is the antithesis of science. This is like putting a PETA figure in the Hunting License department.

115 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:59:07pm

They found an Octopus fossil? Ain't that like finding a fossil of grape jelly? (not in the jar, just grape jelly).

95 million years old.

116 Desert Dog  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 12:59:33pm

re: #51 Maximu§

I am Roman Catholic and a proud one at that, but it looks to me like any politician who admits being Christian will get dragged through the mud until they:

1) Surrender and accept Satan as their savior.

2) Pubically commit suicide.

3) Throw their religion under the bus.

4) Find another job.

Don't forget to give back that bonus too

117 Erik The Red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:00:17pm

re: #105 sharon

He's a chiropractor, as profession based on little science. 'Nuff said.

Don't let my back hear you say that.

118 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:00:30pm

re: #90 J.S.

No. He did not. You have to be able to LINK a CREATIONIST belief with a non-funding of Program X -- do you see how that wouild work (my keyboard is wacky, insert a question mark at the end there). For example, let us say that Minister X decides to spend money on creating a Creationisrt Museum -- or decides to stop funding stem cell research -- and this policies are clearly linked to a Creationist Agenda -- then, by all means, go ballistic. But if you cannot provide the links, cannot provide the EVIDENCE, then you are engaging (imo) in a withhunt with bogus assertions, smearing etc. Again, are you really willing to argue that an alleged Creationist CANNOT serve in a government post (again, insert question mark). Do you see this...

[Link: crossborderbiotech.ca...]

Apparently, Minister Goodyear is fond of cutting funds for basic research. Because, yaknow, we might actually, umm, DISCOVER something. And what was discovered might be what he would consider to be, err, theologically inconvenient.

119 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:00:32pm

re: #117 Erik The Red

dig

120 J.S.  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:00:39pm

re: #109 freetoken

Yeah, yeah. Cut to the chase -- spell it out how the creationist beliefs (obviously, clearly, such beliefs COULD result in program implementation X -- obviously this COULD happen -- I am not saying it COULD NOT) -- but what I am asking is OK, has it (question mark). if you claim that to be the case, then specify it.

121 Kragar  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:01:44pm

re: #104 Bubblehead II

Yep. 1000 quadloos that there will be at least one meltdown.

Do you accept simoleans?

122 J.S.  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:01:45pm

re: #112 CyanSnowHawk

No. Go back to the original post -- I was replying to someone who noted that this was a big media splash with a Leftist newspaper (made the front pages).

123 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:01:47pm
124 KingKenrod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:01:55pm

I can't find the original question Goodyear was asked anywhere. The Globe and Mail story doesn't say what it was, which is piss poor reporting and suggests shenanigans.

If the question was "Do you think evolution is scientific fact?" or "Do you believe in evolution?" then the minister's answer is troublesome because it is a non-sequitur to turn to a religion answer.

If the question was "Do you believe God was involved in creating life" then I can understand the minister's reluctance to answer on personal belief grounds, although I think he should answer the question if he wants to be a public servant.

125 yma o hyd  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:02:13pm

re: #105 sharon

He's a chiropractor, as profession based on little science. 'Nuff said.

Ahem.
Its a political post, mostly administrative, i.e. about setting budgets.
While chiropractors are definitely not scientists, they at least know a bit about the human body, as opposed to having 'studied' the feeeeelings of deprived, one-legged transvestites.

The point I'm trying to make is that while I don't know if there would have been a better choice (Canadian Lizards will know this better) - I'd say we should perhaps be a bit reticent in throwing him to the wolves - unless someone can come up with an example or two of how his creationist belief has influenced his decisions as minister.

126 grahamski  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:02:25pm

re: #6 Occasional Reader

Thank God we're not the only country with loopy politicians.

Uhh, you are thanking God, and he says he is a Christian ...

127 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:02:43pm

Here is a response in the Globe and Mail to the article:


A wolf in sheep's clothing?

D.M. Secoy

March 18, 2009

A science minister who responds to a question about his knowledge of evolution, the central concept of modern biology, with "I don't think anybody asking a question about my religion is appropriate" demonstrates his ignorance of what science is, and isn't. This is the man who is supposedly fighting to keep Canadian science up to world standards?

professor emerita of biology, University of Regina

128 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:03:42pm

re: #100 J.S.

Exactly. It is political fodder for the rabid Leftists...Now instead of screaming, BUSH IS A WAR CRIMINAL. It has become X IS A CREATIONIST!

It is a complaint related to a particular occupation. A creationist has about as much business being Minister of Science as Typhoid Mary has being Minister of Health.

129 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:04:19pm

re: #121 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Depends. What currency is its value pegged to?

130 Killgore Trout  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:04:42pm

Imagine if the head of NASA refused to answer questions about the Copernican solar system on religious grounds.

131 Catttt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:05:19pm

He certainly left himself some wiggle room, though we can't, of course, state for sure whether he is a creationist.

My problem is with his reaction to the question. He brought up religion when he was asked about evolution. Evolution is not a religion. I really hate the phrase "believe in evolution" for that reason.

That he says his opinion on something related to biological science is an irrelevant question about religion makes me wonder why - as Charles (or was it Lao Stinky?) has stated, you can be religious and accept evolution - they are two different things.

132 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:05:35pm

re: #111 J.S.

Yes, of course, but note that that is all speculation operative word speculation.

And in #118 I posted a link to actual funding cuts in scientific research. Fact, not speculation.

133 tntb  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:05:36pm
Ahem.
Its a political post, mostly administrative, i.e. about setting budgets.
While chiropractors are definitely not scientists, they at least know a bit about the human body

If chiropractors knew anything about the human body, they'd quit being chiropractors.

134 KingKenrod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:05:38pm

re: #130 Killgore Trout

Imagine if the head of NASA refused to answer questions about the Copernican solar system on religious grounds.

That would be bizarre.

I just want to know what the question was. G&M doesn't bother to tell us.

136 J.S.  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:05:45pm

re: #128 Salamantis

Once again, your peculiar *loyalty test* is showing itself. Soo, tell me, who will be the next in line (insert question mark). Honchos (insert question mark).

137 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:05:47pm
138 hazzyday  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:05:52pm

I talked to one of my Baptist friends this week. She believes in evolution, her minister doesn't. I would think Boy Scouts also would believe in evolution.

139 Erik The Red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:05:54pm

re: #130 Killgore Trout

Imagine if the head of NASA refused to answer questions about the Copernican solar system on religious grounds.

Imagine if Bill Clinton refused a BJ.////

140 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:06:50pm

re: #115 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

They found an Octopus fossil? Ain't that like finding a fossil of grape jelly? (not in the jar, just grape jelly).

95 million years old.


Probably be delicious calamri with a very aged wine.

141 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:06:53pm

re: #122 J.S.

No. Go back to the original post -- I was replying to someone who noted that this was a big media splash with a Leftist newspaper (made the front pages).

And in doing so managed to malign Charles and the rest of us here that believe that a creationist has no business being a Minister of Science in a developed country.

142 yma o hyd  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:06:54pm

re: #118 Salamantis

[Link: crossborderbiotech.ca...]

Apparently, Minister Goodyear is fond of cutting funds for basic research. Because, yaknow, we might actually, umm, DISCOVER something. And what was discovered might be what he would consider to be, err, theologically inconvenient.

Aww - from my experience in the UK, basic research has been cut back to the bone for years - and not by ceationists or Christians, but by hard-nosed accountants in the Treasury because its basic, i.e. there are no juicy commercial contracts at the end of it.

143 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:06:56pm

re: #120 J.S.

Yeah, yeah. Cut to the chase -- spell it out how the creationist beliefs (obviously, clearly, such beliefs COULD result in program implementation X -- obviously this COULD happen -- I am not saying it COULD NOT) -- but what I am asking is OK, has it (question mark). if you claim that to be the case, then specify it.

Specified in #118:

[Link: crossborderbiotech.ca...]

144 allan5oh  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:07:04pm

Quite interesting Charles. He states evolution has something to do with religion, that's why he didn't answer it clearly. He makes it seem as though one either believes in Christianity or evolution. Obviously he doesn't know science very well. We need a new science minister up here in Canada.

Related:

[Link: www.edmontonsun.com...]

..........Parents would be given the opportunity to opt their kids out of instruction surrounding human sexuality, sexual orientation and other lessons counter to a family's religious convictions........

Double stealth creationist?

145 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:07:21pm

re: #138 hazzyday

How?

146 KingKenrod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:08:16pm

Jimmy Carter had a meeting in the White House today with NSA Jim Jones.

Is Carter being dispatched by Obama on a super-secret mission?

I hope he wasn't being asked for advice or information.

147 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:09:10pm
148 tackle  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:09:33pm

re: #114 Sharmuta

There is nothing scientific about creationism. Creationism is the antithesis of science. This is like putting a PETA figure in the Hunting License department.

I agree with the above, but let's judge on what he does, not what he privately believes. Here's the thing. I'm not a creationist, but I am religious and sometimes I feel that some of this negativity toward creationists spills over onto people of faith. I know Charles has said that Christian and creationists are not synonymous and I appreciate that. What I don't like is the witch-hunt mentality that sometimes creeps out on these boards.
Again, if he is not fit for the position, then I will be happy if he is thrown out. Let's see what he does.
(Heh. Knowing my luck he'll introduce young-earth creationist agenda next week.)

149 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:09:42pm

re: #146 KingKenrod

Going to Guyana?

150 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:10:01pm

re: #136 J.S.

Once again, your peculiar *loyalty test* is showing itself. Soo, tell me, who will be the next in line (insert question mark). Honchos (insert question mark).

It's a fucking COMPETENCY test, nimrod! Anyone who thinks that a question on evolution is religious rather than scientific is eminently INCOMPETENT to be a country's Science Minister.

151 Maximu§  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:10:44pm

I have to get back to work, but those of you who laugh at us who truly believe God created the Earth and Heavens may have to answer for your deeds one day.

Let me ask this of you: Whom will you ask for help when a family member is fighting for their life on a hospital bed and the worthless Doctor says he can't do anything more? The Great Pumpkin? The Good Lord does watch and listen.

152 J.S.  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:11:29pm

re: #141 CyanSnowHawk

Sooo, you need not specify what Minister X does, or does not do, simply making a claim that Minister X holds belief X, and that is sufficient for you to scream that that is sufficient for Minister X to resign (insert question mark). If that is indeed the case, then you are the one who is (inadvertently, i am sure) maligning Charles. Since that is, after all, the essence of intolerance. (not to mention going on a witch hunt).

Now, I have others things to do.

153 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:11:36pm
154 Shug  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:11:40pm

re: #151 Maximu§

I have to get back to work, but those of you who laugh at us who truly believe God created the Earth and Heavens may have to answer for your deeds one day.

Let me ask this of you: Whom will you ask for help when a family member is fighting for their life on a hospital bed and the worthless Doctor says he can't do anything more? The Great Pumpkin? The Good Lord does watch and listen.


Do you believe the Earth is 6000 yesrs old?

155 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:11:47pm

re: #148 tackle

I agree with the above, but let's judge on what he does, not what he privately believes. Here's the thing. I'm not a creationist, but I am religious and sometimes I feel that some of this negativity toward creationists spills over onto people of faith. I know Charles has said that Christian and creationists are not synonymous and I appreciate that. What I don't like is the witch-hunt mentality that sometimes creeps out on these boards.
Again, if he is not fit for the position, then I will be happy if he is thrown out. Let's see what he does.
(Heh. Knowing my luck he'll introduce young-earth creationist agenda next week.)

He's already cut basic scientific research:

[Link: crossborderbiotech.ca...]

156 Desert Dog  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:11:53pm

re: #126 grahamski

Uhh, you are thanking God, and he says he is a Christian ...

Perhaps God has a dry sense of humor?

157 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:11:56pm

re: #149 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

C'mon! That was funny!

Juvenile? Yeah, but funny!

158 brookly red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:12:04pm

re: #140 opnion

Probably be delicious calamri with a very aged wine.

Pulpo, octopus is pulpo. Calamari is squid... don't eat either aged :)

159 Erik The Red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:12:15pm

re: #151 Maximu§

I have to get back to work, but those of you who laugh at us who truly believe God created the Earth and Heavens may have to answer for your deeds one day.

Let me ask this of you: Whom will you ask for help when a family member is fighting for their life on a hospital bed and the worthless Doctor says he can't do anything more? The Great Pumpkin? The Good Lord does watch and listen.

To Quote MM

THAT IS NOT THE POINT

160 bloodnok  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:12:24pm

re: #151 Maximu§

I have to get back to work, but those of you who laugh at us who truly believe God created the Earth and Heavens may have to answer for your deeds one day.

Let me ask this of you: Whom will you ask for help when a family member is fighting for their life on a hospital bed and the worthless Doctor says he can't do anything more? The Great Pumpkin? The Good Lord does watch and listen.

Worthless Doctor? You should be ashamed of thinking like that.

161 debutaunt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:12:47pm

re: #83 Occasional Reader

And I alos think you're maybe just slightly overstating your case.

That's one yellow card for each side. Resume play.

Espresso today?

162 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:13:16pm

Thanks Ward.

Tough room.

163 allan5oh  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:13:27pm

re: #151 Maximu§

Let me ask this of you: Whom will you ask for help when a family member is fighting for their life on a hospital bed and the worthless Doctor says he can't do anything more? The Great Pumpkin? The Good Lord does watch and listen.

Why do we have to ask? I'd rather not ask, and accept my family members mortality. It is much healthier that way.

164 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:14:05pm

re: #152 J.S.

Sooo, you need not specify what Minister X does, or does not do, simply making a claim that Minister X holds belief X, and that is sufficient for you to scream that that is sufficient for Minister X to resign (insert question mark). If that is indeed the case, then you are the one who is (inadvertently, i am sure) maligning Charles. Since that is, after all, the essence of intolerance. (not to mention going on a witch hunt).

Now, I have others things to do.

In this case, Minister X holds a belief (creationism, opposition to evolution) that is inimical to his properly performing the duties of the PARTICULAR ministry (Science) that he heads.

165 Shug  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:14:16pm

Didn't Gary Goodyear sing that Rock n Roll part II song?

166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:15:28pm

re: #165 Shug

HEY!

167 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:15:40pm
168 hazzyday  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:15:48pm

re: #146 KingKenrod

Jimmy Carter had a meeting in the White House today with NSA Jim Jones.

Is Carter being dispatched by Obama on a super-secret mission?

I hope he wasn't being asked for advice or information.

They were probably comparing their Saudi Bank Accounts and wondering if they insulated themselves enough from their own economic policies. Carter has the experience here.

169 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:16:29pm

re: #146 KingKenrod

Jimmy Carter had a meeting in the White House today with NSA Jim Jones.

Is Carter being dispatched by Obama on a super-secret mission?

I hope he wasn't being asked for advice or information.

Well at least this time when he goes around the world hugging terrorists and dictators or hating teh joooz, he wont also being violating the Logan Act while doing it.

/

170 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:17:18pm

re: #148 tackle

I agree with the above, but let's judge on what he does, not what he privately believes. Here's the thing. I'm not a creationist, but I am religious and sometimes I feel that some of this negativity toward creationists spills over onto people of faith. I know Charles has said that Christian and creationists are not synonymous and I appreciate that. What I don't like is the witch-hunt mentality that sometimes creeps out on these boards.
Again, if he is not fit for the position, then I will be happy if he is thrown out. Let's see what he does.
(Heh. Knowing my luck he'll introduce young-earth creationist agenda next week.)

Along those lines, I think that the term "Creationist" as we use it here is not widely understood in the same way we understand it.

In a broad use of the word, a "creationist" is one who believes God created the world ..... which would encompass the beliefs of most Christians and Jews ..... hell, even Muslims.

As we use it here, it refers to those who believe in Young Earth Creationism, or that the world was created as it is now at some point in the past and that these things are antithetical to Evolution.

I think we need to be careful, as you suggest, to observe what a person actually says about his beliefs or does with them before condemning him with the latter definition.

171 alegrias  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:18:16pm

re: #146 KingKenrod

Jimmy Carter had a meeting in the White House today with NSA Jim Jones.

Is Carter being dispatched by Obama on a super-secret mission?

I hope he wasn't being asked for advice or information.

* * * *

It's revolting that dessicated anti-American ex President is hanging around Washington but true. Leave already, Jimmy Carter. At long last have you no shame sir?

172 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:18:37pm

re: #151 Maximu§

I have to get back to work, but those of you who laugh at us who truly believe God created the Earth and Heavens may have to answer for your deeds one day.

Let me ask this of you: Whom will you ask for help when a family member is fighting for their life on a hospital bed and the worthless Doctor says he can't do anything more? The Great Pumpkin? The Good Lord does watch and listen.

I've been faced with that twice in the last few years. and both times, my parent died. As eventually happens to us all, even to you. I sincerely doubt that whatwever your religious faith is, that it provides you with physical immortality.

And if I am condemned to Hell for using the reasoning brain with which I was born and following the empirical evidence wherever it leads, then that Hell would be Heaven for me compared to the eternal presence of a deity so vile and evil that it would decide to do such a thing.

173 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:18:48pm

Maybe I am missing something, but why was he even asked if he believes in Evolution?
Was there something that prompted the question?
It just seems like an odd question, but maybe in context........

174 Big Steve  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:18:57pm

He is either a creationist or a damn crappy scientist when he says we are adapting to walking on concrete. What has that to do with evolution. The only way evolution would direct walking on concrete is if those that did walk on concrete and didn't develop back problems seemed to have a better survival rate prior to having children.

175 Shug  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:19:19pm

re: #146 KingKenrod

Jimmy Carter had a meeting in the White House today with NSA Jim Jones.

Did jimmy drink the kool aid?

176 kansas  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:19:36pm

Seems like more than a few people know all about chiropractors. Name calling pretty quickly. Haven't seen Nazi yet.

177 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:19:57pm

re: #148 tackle

I agree with the above, but let's judge on what he does, not what he privately believes. Here's the thing. I'm not a creationist, but I am religious and sometimes I feel that some of this negativity toward creationists spills over onto people of faith. I know Charles has said that Christian and creationists are not synonymous and I appreciate that. What I don't like is the witch-hunt mentality that sometimes creeps out on these boards.
Again, if he is not fit for the position, then I will be happy if he is thrown out. Let's see what he does.
(Heh. Knowing my luck he'll introduce young-earth creationist agenda next week.)

It's not an irrelevant question. It's exactly relevant. Evolution is science. Creationism is the antithesis of science. To say, "but it is an irrelevant question," is just not true. It's the heart of the matter.

However- I find a more interesting question to be, why do these anti-science zealots want these positions so much? The only reason propaganda pushers want positions of power is to carry out an agenda. I don't appreciate their agenda, just like I don't appreciate the agendas of other zealots trying to undermine my liberties. And when I spot them, I intend to speak out against them. You want to give the guy a chance, and that's fair of you. However, I feel your fairness will come back to disappoint you. We'll see what happens.

178 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:20:11pm

re: #158 brookly red

Pulpo, octopus is pulpo. Calamari is squid... don't eat either aged :)

Not even millions of years old?

179 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:20:12pm

re: #170 eschew_obfuscation

For example, my good friend, Bob. Whom I love dearly. He thinks (really) that the dinosaur bones and fossils are the remains of angels cast out of heaven.

We don't talk about such things.

180 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:20:38pm

re: #128 Salamantis

It is a complaint related to a particular occupation. A creationist has about as much business being Minister of Science as Typhoid Mary has being Minister of Health.

Actually, I wouldn't have a problem with Typhoid Mary being Minister of Health as long as she was in quarantine. With email and video conferencing, no problem.

How can you quarantine the Minister Science and Technology's creationist beliefs? You can't.

181 Desert Dog  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:20:46pm

re: #163 allan5oh

Why do we have to ask? I'd rather not ask, and accept my family members mortality. It is much healthier that way.

All people get sudden religion when they need it....a dying person longs for solace....an unprepared student taking a final prayers for a miracle. What is wrong with believing is something greater than yourself? It is true? Is it real? It's only as real or true as you make it.

Why do some people on this blog think that because a person is "religious" it automatically means they are some Creationist Crackpot? I'm not religious at all, but even I have some problems with the theory of evolution sometimes and I have many questions about how this planet, universe and galaxy all got here that science simply cannot answer at this time...does that make me an Atheist Creationist?

"When you talk to god, it's called prayer. When god talks to you, it's called schizophrenia."

182 debutaunt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:20:53pm

re: #151 Maximu§

I have to get back to work, but those of you who laugh at us who truly believe God created the Earth and Heavens may have to answer for your deeds one day.

Let me ask this of you: Whom will you ask for help when a family member is fighting for their life on a hospital bed and the worthless Doctor says he can't do anything more? The Great Pumpkin? The Good Lord does watch and listen.

Are you deliberately missing the point?

183 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:20:59pm

re: #170 eschew_obfuscation

Along those lines, I think that the term "Creationist" as we use it here is not widely understood in the same way we understand it.

In a broad use of the word, a "creationist" is one who believes God created the world ..... which would encompass the beliefs of most Christians and Jews ..... hell, even Muslims.

As we use it here, it refers to those who believe in Young Earth Creationism, or that the world was created as it is now at some point in the past and that these things are antithetical to Evolution.

I think we need to be careful, as you suggest, to observe what a person actually says about his beliefs or does with them before condemning him with the latter definition.

But for him to state that a question on evolution was a religious question, as he did, strongly indicates that he is a creationist in the latter sense.

184 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:21:06pm

re: #175 Shug

Now, I was more subtle. But...

heh.

185 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:21:40pm

re: #51 Maximu§

I am Roman Catholic and a proud one at that, but it looks to me like any politician who admits being Christian will get dragged through the mud until they:

1) Surrender and accept Satan as their savior.

2) Pubically commit suicide.

3) Throw their religion under the bus.

4) Find another job.

George Bush was president for eight years--even got a second term. I seem to recall he was some religion or other.

28.8% of Congress is Catholic.
14.1% are Baptists.
11.4% are Methodists. (I've been told they actually worship potato-chip casseroles, but I'm including them anyway.)
9.7% are Presbyterians.
7.9% are Episcopalians.
3.9% are Lutherans.
3% are LDS.
After that we get into the Christian Scientists, and the Nazarenes, and the Seventh Day Adventists, and the United Brethren in Christ and all of them.

None of them have killed themselves yet, or even accepted Satan, God forbid.

186 debutaunt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:22:04pm

re: #156 Desert Dog

Perhaps God has a dry sense of humor?

hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaaaa

187 Lincolntf  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:22:26pm

re: #179 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

From what I've seen at the Museum of Natural History, we had some fat, fugly angels back in the day.

188 Catttt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:22:32pm

From Dr. Goodyear's wiki page:

In early 2009, Goodyear oversaw a series of contentious funding cuts for science programs, the most prominent being the lack of any funding for new projects for Genome Canada. Critics of the cuts, including a team of neuroscientists who lost funding, argued that when coupled with the Obama administration's increased funding for science, the cuts could produce a brain drain as researchers move to the United States and secure funding.

Dr. G et al are putting funding into applied science rather than research. For example, they are putting funding into the Industrial Research Assistance Program and a large block of the budget into upgrading campus facilities, while completely cutting off Project Genome. This is compared to President O putting $10 billion into health research alone.

189 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:22:51pm

NEWS FLASH:

Canada just gave a devout Muslim the position of Pork Inspector General.

190 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:22:51pm

re: #152 J.S.

Sooo, you need not specify what Minister X does, or does not do, simply making a claim that Minister X holds belief X, and that is sufficient for you to scream that that is sufficient for Minister X to resign (insert question mark). If that is indeed the case, then you are the one who is (inadvertently, i am sure) maligning Charles. Since that is, after all, the essence of intolerance. (not to mention going on a witch hunt).

Now, I have others things to do.

You are missing the point. A creationist demonstrates unsuitability for a scientific post by rejecting established science in favor of a traditional religious belief. A belief that is not science and stands against it.

Now, since you are moving on to other matters, perhaps you will help me with this one.

? Ctrl-C Ctrl-V. Learn it, use it.

191 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:23:32pm

re: #187 Lincolntf

Yer not just "Whistling Dixie" there.

192 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:23:33pm

re: #173 opnion

Maybe I am missing something, but why was he even asked if he believes in Evolution?
Was there something that prompted the question?
It just seems like an odd question, but maybe in context........

Something like...I dunno...him being his nation's SCIENCE MINISTER? Who recently acquiesced to the cutting of funds for basic scientific research?

/Here's betting that the basic research that got cut was in bioscience.

193 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:23:35pm

From the article:
That’s a different answer from the one Mr. Goodyear, a chiropractor and minister of state for science and technology, gave The Globe and Mail when asked the same thing during an interview published in Tuesday’s paper.

----------------------
Who the hell hires a chiropractor to be the minister of Science and Technology?
That's almost as bad as hiring a community organizer to be the President.

194 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:23:45pm

re: #183 Salamantis

But for him to state that a question on evolution was a religious question, as he did, strongly indicates that he is a creationist in the latter sense.

I don't disagree....

195 Catttt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:23:58pm

re: #151 Maximu§

You can believe that and accept evolution at the same time. We keep saying this, but it bears repeating, obviously.

196 alegrias  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:25:59pm

OT

Nancy Pelosi says illegals are patriotic, per Neil Cavuto.
Enforcing our immigration laws is UNAMERICAN!
You know she cares about life so much.

197 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:26:15pm

re: #192 Salamantis

Something like...I dunno...him being his nation's SCIENCE MINISTER? Who recently acquiesced to the cutting of funds for basic scientific research?

/Here's betting that the basic research that got cut was in bioscience.

Ok, let me try again. I would assume that the Minister of Science did not doubt Evolution, whatever religion he may profess. I am merely asking if there was something definitive that prompted the question.

198 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:26:34pm

re: #170 eschew_obfuscation

Along those lines, I think that the term "Creationist" as we use it here is not widely understood in the same way we understand it.

In a broad use of the word, a "creationist" is one who believes God created the world ..... which would encompass the beliefs of most Christians and Jews ..... hell, even Muslims.

Actually -- no, "creationism" has a very specific definition: creationism - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary.

: a doctrine or theory holding that matter, the various forms of life, and the world were created by God out of nothing and usually in the way described in Genesis

199 alegrias  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:27:19pm

OT
Tom Tancredo on Fox News, in casual wear., taking on Nancy Pelosi's admonition that enforcing US immigration laws is unAmerican.

200 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:27:20pm

re: #193 HoosierHoops

From the article:
That’s a different answer from the one Mr. Goodyear, a chiropractor and minister of state for science and technology, gave The Globe and Mail when asked the same thing during an interview published in Tuesday’s paper.

----------------------
Who the hell hires a chiropractor to be the minister of Science and Technology?
That's almost as bad as hiring a community organizer to be the President.

Or a dentist to be head of the Texas board on science text approval.

201 Catttt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:27:26pm

re: #183 Salamantis

But for him to state that a question on evolution was a religious question, as he did, strongly indicates that he is a creationist in the latter sense.

Eggsactly. That would be the key clue. It's almost a Miss Marple moment - so obvious, if you are a noticing kind of person.

202 WriterMom  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:27:45pm

re: #9 Occasional Reader

Watch it, you two.

203 snowcrash  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:28:08pm

re: #196 alegrias
I'm watching too. Really like Cavuto, just the facts and very little high drama.

204 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:28:27pm

re: #201 Catttt

Eggsactly. That would be the key clue. It's almost a Miss Marple moment - so obvious, if you are a noticing kind of person.

Nemesis in a pink wooly shawl!

205 Ben Hur  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:28:37pm

re: #18 Salamantis

Natural environmental selection still applies, but, being slow, it is buried from most peoples' view by the much more rapid advance of social memetic evolution.

Called out for meeting. Will return to discuss.

206 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:29:02pm

re: #150 Salamantis

It's a fucking COMPETENCY test, nimrod! Anyone who thinks that a question on evolution is religious rather than scientific is eminently INCOMPETENT to be a country's Science Minister.

Well, to be fair, can't we allow for the possibility that the question was fairly pereceived as a transparent set-up for a follow-up religious zinger?
After all, they didn't ask the pol whether he believes in the law of gravity or Boyles law, or for that matter whether he believes in God.
Isn't it possible that ordinary religious believers are feeling a little intimidated these days as a result of the idiotic positions taken by the Young Earthers and the DI/IDers, noit to mention the antics of some of the hard core atheists?
I am not so sure that the question was merely "a question on evolution".

207 tackle  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:29:06pm

re: #155 Salamantis

He's already cut basic scientific research:

[Link: crossborderbiotech.ca...]

Hey, my first down-ding!
Look, if the Canadians want to get rid of him based on that, they should.
From Goodyear's wiki page.

In early 2009, Goodyear oversaw a series of contentious funding cuts for science programs, the most prominent being the lack of any funding for new projects for Genome Canada. [9] Critics of the cuts, including a team of neuroscientists who lost funding, argued that when coupled with the Obama administration's increased funding for science, the cuts could produce a brain drain as researchers move to the United States and secure funding. [10]


Is there sufficient argument that this stems from a possible belief in creationism? You would have to ask him.
Cutting that program, on it's own, is quite a shame. It

focuses on the genetic and genomic basis of human variability, health and disease, including research on the genetics of autism spectrum disorders and structural variation of the human genome.

All I'm asking is that we be respectful and thoughtful before we malign someone.

208 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:29:32pm

Picture of Gheitner(sp?) on Drudge, bold letters underneath...BIG TROUBLE.

Ya think!?

209 WriterMom  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:29:33pm

re: #4 Ben Hur

[W H A C K]

210 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:30:00pm

re: #197 opnion

Ok, let me try again. I would assume that the Minister of Science did not doubt Evolution, whatever religion he may profess. I am merely asking if there was something definitive that prompted the question.

But in fact, when the question WAS first asked, he demurred, saying that it was a religious question, and invoking the argument from ignorance. It ws thus obviously a question that needed to be asked of a science minister who zeroed out funding for basic genome research.

211 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:30:24pm

re: #162 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Thanks Ward.

Tough room.

Whuuu?

/waking up

212 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:31:23pm

re: #198 Charles

Isn't that fudging what I had taken to be the rather sophisticated distinction between the YECs and the old earthers?

213 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:31:42pm

re: #198 Charles

Well, that may be Merriam-Webster's definition, but there seems to be a variety of others floating around. I.E. YEC vs. a variety of interpretations of "in the way described in Genesis", some of which allow for evolution and some of which do not.

"Creationist" is not well defined in public discourse even if it might seem to be in the dictionary.

214 tackle  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:31:56pm

re: #207 tackle

All I'm asking is that we be respectful and thoughtful before we malign someone.

ETA that he seems somewhat underqualified, based on his background.
Goodyear WIKI.

215 KingKenrod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:32:05pm

re: #188 Catttt

If that's true, Goodyear may have made some political enemies.

Does anyone have a transcript of the original interview?

216 Catttt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:32:25pm

re: #198 Charles

I think many people don't know that - I know I didn't.

I think I have mentioned this before, but before you started posting about creationism, I did not know what it really was - "God created the world 6,000 years ago, on a Friday at 3 p.m. ET." I found out via LGF. Before that, I thought it was just a generic, vague "God created stuff" thing that would co-exist with, rather than compete with, science.

217 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:32:25pm
218 alegrias  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:32:37pm

re: #208 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Picture of Gheitner(sp?) on Drudge, bold letters underneath...BIG TROUBLE.

Ya think!?

* * **
Sleazeballs in Congress like Dodd & Frank bear more responsibility than Geithner--they spent years corruptly looking the other way & enacting illogical financial legislation while enriching themselves.

Throw Congressional representatives out first.

219 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:32:44pm

re: #151 Maximu§

I have to get back to work, but those of you who laugh at us who truly believe God created the Earth and Heavens may have to answer for your deeds one day.

Let me ask this of you: Whom will you ask for help when a family member is fighting for their life on a hospital bed and the worthless Doctor says he can't do anything more? The Great Pumpkin? The Good Lord does watch and listen.

I realize you're leaving, but you may come back to the thread later. I don't think anyone here, regardless of their own beliefs, intends to mock sincere belief. I believe that God created the heavens and the earth. I also believe that it's impossible for me to truly understand what that means, but that science is one way for me to approach understanding.

When my dad was fighting for his life two years ago, I turned to God for help. And I thanked God for many things--the doctors, who were not worthless, but good Catholics, full of faith and kindness. I thanked God for the mind of a human being, that can understand parts of the universe and learn to make drugs and machines and practice medicine. And I did it knowing that there was a chance none of this would count for anything, and with faith that my dad would still be taken care of by the Lord, no matter what happened.

I believe that we are meant to go forward to light, not cling to darkness. And that means looking at how our beliefs affect our actions, in this world.

220 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:33:01pm

My wife swears by chiropractors. Me? I just keep my mouth shut.

Actually, I guess I'm okay with chiropractors that just tweak your joints, but when they go off on curing colds and crap like that through manipulation, they've lost me.

221 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:33:26pm

re: #210 Salamantis

But in fact, when the question WAS first asked, he demurred, saying that it was a religious question, and invoking the argument from ignorance. It ws thus obviously a question that needed to be asked of a science minister who zeroed out funding for basic genome research.

I agree, he dodged the question. If he stopped funding for genome research , I can see where the question came from then, Thank's

222 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:33:35pm

re: #195 Catttt

You can believe that and accept evolution at the same time. We keep saying this, but it bears repeating, obviously.

That should be the debate. That is the debate. Creationists avoid it which is only more evidence that we should take Phillip Johnson at his word when he said,

"Our strategy has been to change the subject a bit so that we can get the issue of intelligent design, which really means the reality of God, before the academic world and into the schools."

223 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:33:47pm

re: #206 Spare O'Lake

Well, to be fair, can't we allow for the possibility that the question was fairly pereceived as a transparent set-up for a follow-up religious zinger?
After all, they didn't ask the pol whether he believes in the law of gravity or Boyles law, or for that matter whether he believes in God.
Isn't it possible that ordinary religious believers are feeling a little intimidated these days as a result of the idiotic positions taken by the Young Earthers and the DI/IDers, noit to mention the antics of some of the hard core atheists?
I am not so sure that the question was merely "a question on evolution".

Nope, it sounds pretty straightforward and eminently relevant and germane: "Do you accept the theory of evolution, Mr. Science Minister?" It's a question that admits of a monosyllabic one word answer. But he waffled and weaseled, which tells me that the answer for him was not yes, but he'd rather obfuscate than say no.

224 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:35:02pm

re: #167 taxfreekiller

La Raza and Nancy Pelosi rule you now America what will you do

La Raza? I'd rather have La Bronca, she's hotter.

225 Erik The Red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:35:38pm

re: #220 Ward Cleaver

My wife swears by chiropractors. Me? I just keep my mouth shut.

Actually, I guess I'm okay with chiropractors that just tweak your joints, but when they go off on curing colds and crap like that through manipulation, they've lost me.

I go to the GP for a cold. My chiro in on speed dial.

226 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:35:46pm

re: #220 Ward Cleaver

One cured me of diphtheria.
/
(play on another Eddie Izzard Chiropractor joke)

227 jaunte  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:36:27pm

re: #217 Iron Fist

You are coming very, very close to advocating a religious test to hold office. Not for a specific religion, per se, but for a specific religious belief.

Canada may be able to swing that, but I doubt you'll get it past the Supreme Court in the United States.

Texas actually has one that excludes avowed atheists from office.

"No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments,provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being."
[Link: tlo2.tlc.state.tx.us...]

228 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:36:57pm
229 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:37:01pm

I know a ham that was cured by a chiropractor.

230 brookly red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:37:13pm

re: #178 opnion

Not even millions of years old?

if you insist..

231 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:37:18pm
232 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:37:26pm

re: #225 Erik The Red

I go to the GP for a cold. My chiro in on speed dial.

The normal chiropractors I can handle; it's the wacko ones that I can't.

233 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:37:30pm
234 Ward Cleaver  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:37:38pm

re: #229 HelloDare

I know a ham that was cured by a chiropractor.

Mmmmmm.... ham.

235 Erik The Red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:38:38pm

It is way past my bed time. Good night Lizards. See you on the LNDT.

That you for your helping to make lol's birthday wish come true.

236 Kragar  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:38:45pm

re: #226 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

One cured me of diphtheria.
/
(play on another Eddie Izzard Chiropractor joke)

Crack yer bones. THEY MUST MAKE THE NOISE!

237 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:38:55pm

re: #227 jaunte

Supreme Being?

I believe in Milla Jovovich.

Multi-pass!

238 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:38:57pm

re: #230 brookly red

if you insist..

On second thought, I do get your point. I am now leaning to Chicken Lo Mein tonight

239 Dianna  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:39:30pm

I need to eat. Back later.

240 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:39:33pm

Oops! Late...

241 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:40:04pm

re: #217 Iron Fist

You are coming very, very close to advocating a religious test to hold office. Not for a specific religion, per se, but for a specific religious belief.

Canada may be able to swing that, but I doubt you'll get it past the Supreme Court in the United States.

Creationism is not tied to any specific religion. There are Christocreationists and Islamocreationist and Judeocreationists. But the rejection of evolutionary theory based upon any of them does adversely affect a person's ability to competently perform as a Science Minister, especially in the bioscience field.

The position should be filled on the basis of merit, and not as some sort of religious ffirmative action project.

242 jaunte  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:40:06pm

re: #237 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Supreme Being?

I believe in Milla Jovovich.

Multi-pass!

Believers have photos.
/just sayin'

243 brookly red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:41:33pm

re: #224 SanFranciscoZionist

La Raza? I'd rather have La Bronca, she's hotter.

Yes OK, but you get Pelosi too, It's a package... yes or no?

244 Annar  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:41:38pm

Many of the projects already getting grants in the humanities are pseudo scientific (gender studies etc.) and get money because of the PC sickness that is rampant. In many other cases grants are accorded so as to waste tax payer dollars on projects that are simply the tedious documentation of the obvious using statistical methods and models the 'researchers' do not at all understand. However there has to be some limit on government financing of lunatic ideas such as Intelligent Design or even letting it tarnish by association an agency that is supposed to support serious research.

Let's hope this guy finds the exit door rather quickly since his follow up excuses are of the lame CYA kind an not at all convincing.

245 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:41:44pm

re: #220 Ward Cleaver

My wife swears by chiropractors. Me? I just keep my mouth shut.

Actually, I guess I'm okay with chiropractors that just tweak your joints, but when they go off on curing colds and crap like that through manipulation, they've lost me.

A lot of my friends go to them, but just for back adjustments--didn't know they also cured colds.
//
I've been meaning to try it out--one of my college buddies knows someone she swears by.

246 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:41:55pm
247 Buck  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:42:12pm

Quite a few scientist are creationists. You can work on making a better MRI, or do research and still be a creationist.

Let's please not practice creationist-ism....

/just to answer your question, fuck no... I am not one of them. I believe in evolution like any sane person...

248 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:42:42pm

re: #245 SanFranciscoZionist

A lot of my friends go to them, but just for back adjustments--didn't know they also cured colds.
//
I've been meaning to try it out--one of my college buddies knows someone she swears by.

I also like chiropractors in general, because my HS friend's mom's chiropractor convinced her, through joint manipulation and Scripture quoting, that it was OK for her daughter to date someone who wasn't Chinese, as long as he was a good Christian.

/

249 brookly red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:43:05pm

re: #238 opnion

On second thought, I do get your point. I am now leaning to Chicken Lo Mein tonight

Question my politics, but I know food.

250 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:43:22pm

re: #234 Ward Cleaver

Mmmmmm.... ham.

A city boy was visiting a farm, and he saw a pig with a wooden leg.
He asked the farmer about it, and he was told
"That there pig saved our lives. The house was on fire, and he came in squealing and woke us up so we escaped."
"So, he lost his leg in the fire?"
"No, but a pig like that, you don't eat all at once."

251 Emerald  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:43:58pm

re: #22 J.S.

I think this is really a non issue. Unless one can provide the evidence that somehow a "creationist" point of view is interfering with his ministry, then I say, "So what?" Seriously, where are we going with this? What's next, witch hunts? Let's ferret out all secret subscribers to Belief X, which for whatever reason, then becomes demonized. Or, hey, lets' have "loyalty tests" -- yeah, that's the ticket! gotta swear to upholding Religion X prior to entering public office -- is that where this is headed? Only, in today's political climate, instead of declaring loyalty to a religion, one needs to declare oneself an Atheist...then, everything's OK..(and that's what passes for "tolerance" in Canada).

Would you say the same if he questioned other branches of science? Would you have faith in a surgeon who doubted the existence of germs? Would you go for treatment from someone who thought mental disease was a sign of possession? Trust an engineer who designed a bridge or building who doubted physical laws?

As for his job as minister,
Would you trust an economic minister who didn't believe supply and demand had an impact on prices? Would you trust a foreign affairs minister who nothing of any other country? Would you trust a interior minister who thought his job was decorating?

If you answered no to any one of those, why in the world would you trust a science minister who doesn't believe in science?

252 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:44:19pm

“But it is an irrelevant question.”

This is like 0bama saying he was 8 years old when bill ayers was blowing shit up.

253 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:44:57pm

re: #247 Buck

Quite a few scientist are creationists. You can work on making a better MRI, or do research and still be a creationist.

Let's please not practice creationist-ism....

/just to answer your question, fuck no... I am not one of them. I believe in evolution like any sane person...

Yeah, but you'll be hard pressed to find competent bioscientists who are creationists, and apparently harder pressed still to find creationists who can separate their personal beliefs from the performance of their duties as a country's science minister.

254 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:45:16pm

re: #251 Emerald

Would you say the same if he questioned other branches of science? Would you have faith in a surgeon who doubted the existence of germs? Would you go for treatment from someone who thought mental disease was a sign of possession? Trust an engineer who designed a bridge or building who doubted physical laws?

As for his job as minister,
Would you trust an economic minister who didn't believe supply and demand had an impact on prices? Would you trust a foreign affairs minister who nothing of any other country? Would you trust a interior minister who thought his job was decorating?

If you answered no to any one of those, why in the world would you trust a science minister who doesn't believe in science?

Well said.

255 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:45:16pm

re: #251 Emerald

Would you say the same if he questioned other branches of science? Would you have faith in a surgeon who doubted the existence of germs? Would you go for treatment from someone who thought mental disease was a sign of possession? Trust an engineer who designed a bridge or building who doubted physical laws?

As for his job as minister,
Would you trust an economic minister who didn't believe supply and demand had an impact on prices? Would you trust a foreign affairs minister who nothing of any other country? Would you trust a interior minister who thought his job was decorating?

If you answered no to any one of those, why in the world would you trust a science minister who doesn't believe in science?


Didn't you just describe the 0bama administration?
And no, I don't trust them.

256 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:45:46pm

re: #1 Shug

taqiacreationism

Kitman, technically...

Anyway, we have at LGF at least a year of experience in creationist evasions. This would appear to be the tactic of "I'm a good Christian, and if you attack my creationism, you're a persecutor of Christians".

257 kansas  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:45:52pm

re: #232 Ward Cleaver

The normal chiropractors I can handle; it's the wacko ones that I can't.

There's a difference?

258 Buck  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:46:01pm

re: #253 Salamantis

harder pressed still to find creationists who can separate their personal beliefs from the performance of their duties as a country's science minister.


I don't agree at all.

259 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:46:08pm
260 tackle  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:46:13pm

Wow, my first creationist thread and only a few bumps to show for it. Thanks to all you who have been respectful. I've learned a couple things along the way.
Gotta go make dinner. Catch you all on the flip side.

261 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:46:47pm

re: #223 Salamantis

Nope, it sounds pretty straightforward and eminently relevant and germane: "Do you accept the theory of evolution, Mr. Science Minister?" It's a question that admits of a monosyllabic one word answer. But he waffled and weaseled, which tells me that the answer for him was not yes, but he'd rather obfuscate than say no.

Considering that "waffle and weasel" are most pols' middle names, aren't you being just a tad hard on the goof?

/When did you stop beating your wife, Mr. Justice Minister?/
/Does smoking pot make you high, Mr. Health Minister?/
/Do you believe in the stock market, Mr. Finance Minister?/

262 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:46:51pm
263 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:48:20pm

re: #258 Buck

I don't agree at all.

Well, Canada's science minister Gary Goodyear is apparently unable to separate his creationist tendencies from his performance of the duties of his office, as attested to by his zeroing out the funding for basic genome research in Canada.

264 Annar  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:49:27pm

re: #185 SanFranciscoZionist


None of them have killed themselves yet, or even accepted Satan, God forbid.


Well, some of them are guilty of what could be called satanic behavior but recently they only suggest that others commit suicide.

265 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:49:50pm

re: #128 Salamantis

It is a complaint related to a particular occupation. A creationist has about as much business being Minister of Science as Typhoid Mary has being Minister of Health.

Yes, it's troubling. It bothers me more that the conservative head of the government thought this guy was a good choice for the post. If he is just an administrative guy and isn't going to micromanage which projects are approved, it's not worth forcing him out, perhaps.

It's very frustrating, because Harper is doing a good job otherwise.

266 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:50:06pm
267 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:50:06pm

re: #259 Iron Fist


I'm not sure where, other than maybe California, you'd be able to get that kind of an amendment passed. But that is a political question.

I'm dubious about California. Please remember, an increasing number of Latino voters are drifting to the evangelical churches. I think you'd have a better shot in the East, possibly.

268 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:50:31pm

re: #261 Spare O'Lake

Considering that "waffle and weasel" are most pols' middle names, aren't you being just a tad hard on the goof?

/When did you stop beating your wife, Mr. Justice Minister?/
/Does smoking pot make you high, Mr. Health Minister?/
/Do you believe in the stock market, Mr. Finance Minister?/

Those questions are not in the same class as Do you accept evolutionary theory, Mr. Science Minister, and you damn well know it, or should.

269 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:50:32pm

Re his tactic:

"the Goodyear Wimp"

270 Gretchen  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:51:43pm

Unless he's going to create public policy based on his religious beliefs I'm not sure it is a big deal. Are we going to not elect Jews if they keep the Sabbath out of fear they'll shut down commerce and sporting events on Saturdays?

I also really believe lots of people don't understand the core "creationist" beliefs i.e., the earth is 6,000 years old but may hold a kind of soft creationist view like the Catholic church does, that is that God created the earth, but that evolution is still true. I certainly didn't realize the whole of the radical creationist beliefs until I read this site and thought it could include a hybrid of God is a creator and evolution is still valid. Most polls indicate most Americans believe in creationism, but I would bet most of those claiming to believe in creationism just believe God created the universe and don't throw Darwin out wholesale.

271 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:51:59pm
272 Catttt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:52:37pm

re: #215 KingKenrod

If that's true, Goodyear may have made some political enemies.

Does anyone have a transcript of the original interview?

The original Globe and Mail article is here.

Here is an article with a lot of detail on the subject of the Canadian budget in re research:
Canada puts the squeeze on science

Experts warn research lacks adequate funding and the government a coherent vision. While the U.S. invests heavily in science as an key part of its economic revival, Canada is spending less and putting scientists out of work, reports Mohammed Adam.
273 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:52:42pm

re: #265 funky chicken

Yes, it's troubling. It bothers me more that the conservative head of the government thought this guy was a good choice for the post. If he is just an administrative guy and isn't going to micromanage which projects are approved, it's not worth forcing him out, perhaps.

It's very frustrating, because Harper is doing a good job otherwise.

He's zeroed out the funding for basic genome research. I see him as being hostile to bioscience, because he rejects evolution, and bioscience's entire framework is evolutionary.

274 brookly red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:53:00pm

re: #264 Annar

Well, some of them are guilty of what could be called satanic behavior but recently they only suggest that others commit suicide.

behavior, or possesion?

275 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:53:13pm

re: #247 Buck

Quite a few scientist are creationists. You can work on making a better MRI, or do research and still be a creationist.

Let's please not practice creationist-ism....

/just to answer your question, fuck no... I am not one of them. I believe in evolution like any sane person...

The cutting-edge medical and physical science projects the government is funding probably wouldn't be harmed by the guy, especially if he's not tampering too much.

Ugh. It's just a self-inflicted wound for Harper to have appointed him though, if he is indeed a creationist.

276 jaunte  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:53:51pm

re: #259 Iron Fist

Everything I've seen on it says that it's 'rarely enforced', since it would be liable to be struck down as unconstitutional. I doubt if anyone who wanted to make a point of disbelief would be electable in Texas, so it remains a legal curiosity.

277 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:53:58pm

I'm sure the Discovery Institute has press releases ready to go in case life is discovered on Mars. Hey, maybe that's why spacejesus has been hanging around LGF?

278 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:54:25pm
279 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:54:36pm

re: #270 Gretchen

Unless he's going to create public policy based on his religious beliefs I'm not sure it is a big deal. Are we going to not elect Jews if they keep the Sabbath out of fear they'll shut down commerce and sporting events on Saturdays?

I also really believe lots of people don't understand the core "creationist" beliefs i.e., the earth is 6,000 years old but may hold a kind of soft creationist view like the Catholic church does, that is that God created the earth, but that evolution is still true. I certainly didn't realize the whole of the radical creationist beliefs until I read this site and thought it could include a hybrid of God is a creator and evolution is still valid. Most polls indicate most Americans believe in creationism, but I would bet most of those claiming to believe in creationism just believe God created the universe and don't throw Darwin out wholesale.

There is not currently a concerted effort to Jews to shut down commerce and sporting events on Saturdays. There is an effort by creationists to push the teaching of religious creation stories as science in the classroom. That makes all the difference.

280 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:54:48pm

re: #268 Salamantis

Those questions are not in the same class as Do you accept evolutionary theory, Mr. Science Minister, and you damn well know it, or should.

We're just not having a Goodyear, are we?

281 sambo the lightning  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:54:51pm

That’s a different answer from the one Mr. Goodyear, a chiropractor and minister of state for science and technology, gave The Globe and Mail when asked the same thing during an interview published in Tuesday’s paper.

“I’m not going to answer that question. I am a Christian, and I don’t think anybody asking a question about my religion is appropriate,” he said at the time. “I do believe that just because you can’t see it under a microscope doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It could mean we don’t have a powerful enough microscope yet. So I’m not fussy on this business that we already know everything. ... I think we need to recognize that we don’t know.”

In all fairness, I don't think there is much to object to in the above statement, unless we simply assume that any person associating himself/herself with a religion is a creationist. Note that this may be a legitimate definition, although I don't think it is the one we use. I didn't see the original question, and am not sure if it was actually "the same thing", but note that any augmentation of the context (not unlikely to have been somewhat skewed by Globe and Mail, which is not exactly a centrist paper) would probably render the statement much less "preposterous".

Well, I am a scientist, and the last thing you could accuse me of is being a creationist, but I find it difficult not to agree with the simple observation that there are lots of things we still do not understand. So if we agree that it is legal for Mr. Goodyear to be admittedly Christian, I see nothing wrong with his opinion, especially that its context appears somewhat obscured. Note that Globe and Mail would only be too happy to "expose" this sort of conservative backwardness, so the fact that they have been able to find only this much should be viewed as their failure.

282 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:54:52pm

re: #270 Gretchen

Unless he's going to create public policy based on his religious beliefs I'm not sure it is a big deal. Are we going to not elect Jews if they keep the Sabbath out of fear they'll shut down commerce and sporting events on Saturdays?

If the President put an anti-zionist Naturei Karta "Jew" in charge of a Middle Eastern committee, I daresay we would complain here. Especially if when asked about whether he opposed the State of Israel, he said "I'm an observant Jew and how dare you".

283 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:54:55pm

re: #270 Gretchen

Unless he's going to create public policy based on his religious beliefs I'm not sure it is a big deal. Are we going to not elect Jews if they keep the Sabbath out of fear they'll shut down commerce and sporting events on Saturdays?

I also really believe lots of people don't understand the core "creationist" beliefs i.e., the earth is 6,000 years old but may hold a kind of soft creationist view like the Catholic church does, that is that God created the earth, but that evolution is still true. I certainly didn't realize the whole of the radical creationist beliefs until I read this site and thought it could include a hybrid of God is a creator and evolution is still valid. Most polls indicate most Americans believe in creationism, but I would bet most of those claiming to believe in creationism just believe God created the universe and don't throw Darwin out wholesale.

Umm...wouldn't zeroing out Canada's budget for basic bioscience genome research count as creating (bad) public policy based upon his religious beliefs? YES.

284 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:55:04pm
285 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:55:20pm
286 Mirage  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:55:36pm

re: #193 HoosierHoops

From the article:
That’s a different answer from the one Mr. Goodyear, a chiropractor and minister of state for science and technology, gave The Globe and Mail when asked the same thing during an interview published in Tuesday’s paper.

----------------------
Who the hell hires a chiropractor to be the minister of Science and Technology?
But, that's almost no where near as bad as hiring a community organizer to be the President.

Fixed :)

287 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:55:44pm

re: #273 Salamantis

He's zeroed out the funding for basic genome research.

what?
shaking head

288 itellu3times  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:56:31pm

Mind so open all the contents fall out.

289 yma o hyd  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:56:34pm

re: #277 HelloDare

I'm sure the Discovery Institute has press releases ready to go in case life is discovered on Mars. Hey, maybe that's why spacejesus has been hanging around LGF?

Heh - they better get their fingers out, then! lookit here:
Pictures of 'liquid water' increase possibility of life on Mars

290 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:56:34pm

I for one would be interested in knowing why Canadians evolved their flappy-heads & beady-eyes.

291 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:56:49pm

re: #275 funky chicken

The cutting-edge medical and physical science projects the government is funding probably wouldn't be harmed by the guy, especially if he's not tampering too much.

Ugh. It's just a self-inflicted wound for Harper to have appointed him though, if he is indeed a creationist.

But funding for Canada's cutting edge bioscience genome projects has already been zeroed out by him.

292 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:57:12pm

re: #279 CyanSnowHawk

There is not currently a concerted effort to Jews to shut down commerce and sporting events on Saturdays. There is an effort by creationists to push the teaching of religious creation stories as science in the classroom. That makes all the difference.

PIMF.

by Jews, not to Jews.
I should have specified some creationists as not all of them are trying to do this.

293 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:57:14pm

re: #249 brookly red

Question my politics, but I know food.

I have no doubt.

294 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:57:23pm

re: #281 sambo the lightning

Well, I am a scientist, and the last thing you could accuse me of is being a creationist, but I find it difficult not to agree with the simple observation that there are lots of things we still do not understand.

A biochemist, perhaps?

295 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:57:23pm

re: #259 Iron Fist

Oh, IF, I was going to mention from yesterday's thread that no one in SF has ever taken their kindergarteners to the Folsom Street Fair, God be praised. We think you meant that class that got taken to the same-sex wedding.

(I was intemperate in my first response, and was asked to reconsider. Please, chalk it up to my insane love of My City By The Bay.

296 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:57:31pm
297 brookly red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:57:41pm

re: #285 taxfreekiller

whaaa?, is this Grassfire or some other group? pls advise.

298 voirdire  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:58:19pm

Science Minister Test:

__ The universe came into existence by itself.
__ The universe has always existed.
__ The universe came into existence but, it created itself.
__ The universe was created.
__ There is no universe.

299 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 1:59:59pm

re: #270 Gretchen

Unless he's going to create public policy based on his religious beliefs I'm not sure it is a big deal. Are we going to not elect Jews if they keep the Sabbath out of fear they'll shut down commerce and sporting events on Saturdays?

Actually, there was a lot of fretting when Lieberman was running for VP about 'what if there's a crisis on Shabbat'?

But I agree--if someone feels that they can do the job and keep the rules, their beliefs are not my problem. What worries me about this guy is that it sounds like he can't talk openly about hs beliefs and how they connect with his work.

300 Emerald  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:00:00pm

re: #255 Kosh's Shadow

Didn't you just describe the 0bama administration?
And no, I don't trust them.

Unfortunately, I think I did.

301 debutaunt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:00:28pm

re: #296 HelloDare

Remember this t-shirt?

As a Californian, I hope Algore will take care of this earth glitch problem.

302 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:00:44pm

re: #289 yma o hyd

Heh - they better get their fingers out, then! lookit here:
Pictures of 'liquid water' increase possibility of life on Mars

Why does that strike me as hilarious (as well as fascinating)?

"Is there water here? Where's the water? Is it over there? nope. Over there? nope. OH SHIT! I've got it all over me!"

303 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:01:03pm

re: #278 Iron Fist

Maybe in the Northeast. Massachusetts, perhaps. Nothing South of Virginia, though. It'd never make it anywhere south of Virginia (including, I think, Virginia).

I was thinking MA might pass such, yeah. Cali is too big and socially multi-part. (I suspect.)

304 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:01:03pm

re: #289 yma o hyd

Heh - they better get their fingers out, then! lookit here:
Pictures of 'liquid water' increase possibility of life on Mars

I would think that the existence of liquid water on Mars, not the pictures would be responsible for increasing the likelihood of life on Mars.

/Damn idiot headline writer.

305 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:01:17pm

re: #281 sambo the lightning

That’s a different answer from the one Mr. Goodyear, a chiropractor and minister of state for science and technology, gave The Globe and Mail when asked the same thing during an interview published in Tuesday’s paper.

“I’m not going to answer that question. I am a Christian, and I don’t think anybody asking a question about my religion is appropriate,” he said at the time. “I do believe that just because you can’t see it under a microscope doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It could mean we don’t have a powerful enough microscope yet. So I’m not fussy on this business that we already know everything. ... I think we need to recognize that we don’t know.”

In all fairness, I don't think there is much to object to in the above statement, unless we simply assume that any person associating himself/herself with a religion is a creationist. Note that this may be a legitimate definition, although I don't think it is the one we use. I didn't see the original question, and am not sure if it was actually "the same thing", but note that any augmentation of the context (not unlikely to have been somewhat skewed by Globe and Mail, which is not exactly a centrist paper) would probably render the statement much less "preposterous".

Well, I am a scientist, and the last thing you could accuse me of is being a creationist, but I find it difficult not to agree with the simple observation that there are lots of things we still do not understand. So if we agree that it is legal for Mr. Goodyear to be admittedly Christian, I see nothing wrong with his opinion, especially that its context appears somewhat obscured. Note that Globe and Mail would only be too happy to "expose" this sort of conservative backwardness, so the fact that they have been able to find only this much should be viewed as their failure.

For Science Minister Goodyear to cite religion and an argument from ignorance as reasons not to answer whether or not he accepted evolutionary theory strongly indicates that he is indeed a creationist, as does the fact that he has used his position to cut the funding of cutting edge bioscience (actually zeroing out basic genome research), which proceeds within an evolutionary framework.

306 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:01:25pm

re: #298 voirdire

Science Minister Test:

__ The universe came into existence by itself.
__ The universe has always existed.
__ The universe came into existence but, it created itself.
__ The universe was created.
__ There is no universe.

NO, NO, NO. If we all check the last one, the universe will disappear. What will happen to Michelle's children?

307 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:01:27pm

re: #296 HelloDare

Remember this t-shirt?

one of my favorites!

308 jorline  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:01:47pm

re: #298 voirdire

Science Minister Test:

__ The universe came into existence by itself.
__ The universe has always existed.
__ The universe came into existence but, it created itself.
__ The universe was created.
__ There is no universe.

Universal joint.

309 Emerald  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:02:05pm
This issue is not just an academic one, because Goodyear has been responsible for cutting funding for science programs—especially denying funding for the “Genome Canada” project, which could be directly related to his creationist beliefs.


Anyone still going to argue that his beliefs aren't important to his job?

310 allan5oh  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:02:12pm

re: #181 Desert Dog

I was simply stating why *I* wouldn't ask. Notice how I apply my logic to only myself, yet the other poster makes it seem like all should "ask".

My world is ruled by logic.

311 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:02:14pm

re: #295 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, IF, I was going to mention from yesterday's thread that no one in SF has ever taken their kindergarteners to the Folsom Street Fair, God be praised. We think you meant that class that got taken to the same-sex wedding.

(I was intemperate in my first response, and was asked to reconsider. Please, chalk it up to my insane love of My City By The Bay.

Damn it, he left again!

312 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:03:18pm

re: #304 CyanSnowHawk

I would think that the existence of liquid water on Mars, not the pictures would be responsible for increasing the likelihood of life on Mars.

/Damn idiot headline writer.

I disagree. If they found a picture of liquid water on Mars, that would be a sure sign of life.

313 Catttt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:03:23pm

re: #281 sambo the lightning

I can tell you don't read much Agatha Christie.

314 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:03:31pm

Look, if this guy is a Creationist, believing in a talking snake in a garden & dinosaurs roaming around 6,000 years ago that it one thing.
If he is a Christian that sees no conflict with the evidence of Evolution that is a very different thing.

315 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:03:33pm

re: #309 Emerald

Anyone still going to argue that his beliefs aren't important to his job?

In a severe recession SOME conservative governments cut spending!

316 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:04:06pm

re: #312 HelloDare

I disagree. If they found a picture of liquid water on Mars, that would be a sure sign of life.

Ah, the Kodachrome hypothesis.

317 brookly red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:04:13pm

re: #298 voirdire

Science Minister Test:

__ The universe came into existence by itself.
__ The universe has always existed.
__ The universe came into existence but, it created itself.
__ The universe was created.
__ There is no universe.


Ahhem. (Finance minister test)
- the universe is expanding at the same rate as Obama' budget & can be taxed infinitely.

318 sambo the lightning  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:04:14pm

re: #294 Sharmuta

Close. A physicist. I mean, I am not into, say "religious science" ;-).

319 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:05:01pm

re: #316 CyanSnowHawk

Ah, the Kodachrome hypothesis.

Yeah, it's like finding a pocket watch on the beach. /

320 KingKenrod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:05:04pm

re: #272 Catttt

Thanks for the links. I was hoping to find the original G&M question that Goodyear responded to since the crack journalists at G&M didn't bother to tell us.

321 yma o hyd  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:05:16pm

re: #302 eschew_obfuscation

Why does that strike me as hilarious (as well as fascinating)?

"Is there water here? Where's the water? Is it over there? nope. Over there? nope. OH SHIT! I've got it all over me!"

Its ratehr interesting - but tits not, apparently, water as we know it. Its got some chemicals in it which prevent it from freezing, and the lander's rockets actually seems to have melted the ground where it was.
Intrigueing - but not exactly a call-up to man the first expedition to Mars ...

322 Ben Hur  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:05:44pm

tits?

323 jorline  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:05:52pm
324 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:06:01pm

re: #314 opnion

Look, if this guy is a Creationist, believing in a talking snake in a garden & dinosaurs roaming around 6,000 years ago that it one thing.
If he is a Christian that sees no conflict with the evidence of Evolution that is a very different thing.

When he demurs when asked whether he believes in evolution by invoking the argument from ignorance and labeling it a religious question, I think it is reasonable to derive that he is the former, not the latter.

325 DEZes  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:06:28pm

re: #322 Ben Hur

tits?


WOO-HOO, boob thread.

326 Catttt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:06:34pm
327 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:06:43pm

re: #322 Ben Hur

tits?

BOOB THREAD!

328 yma o hyd  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:07:03pm

re: #304 CyanSnowHawk

I would think that the existence of liquid water on Mars, not the pictures would be responsible for increasing the likelihood of life on Mars.

/Damn idiot headline writer.

Heh.
They had to get the word 'pictures' in, by hook or by crook ...
If ye can see it on a photo, it must be true ...

329 Sharmuta  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:07:21pm

re: #318 sambo the lightning

Close. A physicist. I mean, I am not into, say "religious science" ;-).

Does physics allow for supernatural explanations? Should biology? Should someone who thinks science should allow for supernatural explanations be in the position of Minister of Science?

330 sambo the lightning  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:07:28pm

re: #305 Salamantis

Yes, I never said I was a fan of him. I only said that the conclusion would be premature if based on that article.

331 Catttt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:07:29pm

re: #321 yma o hyd

tits not,

NOT a boob thread. :D

332 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:07:31pm

re: #325 DEZes

re: #327 CyanSnowHawk

I don't see a whole lot of mention of the Messiah-King.

333 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:07:48pm

re: #317 brookly red

Ahhem. (Finance minister test)
- the universe is expanding at the same rate as Obama' budget & can be taxed infinitely.

Yes the Universe is expanding, but how dare you sir suggest that it is at the same rate as the Dear Leaders taxation & spending!
Perhaps a reeducation camp would adjust your attitude.

334 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:07:58pm

re: #322 Ben Hur

tits?

Is that the brest you can do?

335 apachegunner  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:08:15pm

hey lizards, am I too late for the boob thread?

336 Catttt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:08:25pm

re: #327 CyanSnowHawk

Jinx! Sort of......

337 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:08:34pm

re: #321 yma o hyd

Its ratehr interesting - but tits not, apparently, water as we know it. Its silicone.

(well, she should have said it)

338 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:09:00pm
339 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:09:28pm

Part of Goodyear's bio from the first G&M article:

His first summer job was laying asphalt when he was 12. At 13, he got a part-time job at a garage, pumping gas. At 17, the young entrepreneur started his own company selling asphalt and sealants.

He was in the technical stream at high school, taking welding and automotive mechanics. No one in has family had ever gone to university, but he secretly started taking academic credits at night school so he could get admitted to the University of Waterloo. He didn't want his family to know.

He took chemistry, physics, statistics and kinesiology, and was fascinated by the mechanics of human joints. After three years of university, he was admitted to the Canadian Memorial Chiropractic College, where he was class president and valedictorian.

He had his own practice in Cambridge, where he settled down with his wife Valerie. He worked as chiropractor for two decades, and set up private clinics to treat people who had been injured in car accidents, sometimes using devices that he invented to help them rebuild their strength and range of motion.

He had sold that business when, before the 2004 federal election, a friend approached him about running for the Conservative nomination in Cambridge. His two children were then in their late teens, so he agreed. He took the nomination and won the seat. He was re-elected in 2006, and again in 2008, when Prime Minister Stephen Harper named him science minister.

“Now I have got a portfolio that I am absolutely passionate about and frankly connected to,” he said, adding that his days of experimenting with engines in high school automotive class gave him an appreciation for what it feels like to come up with something new.

“When I was in high school, we were already tweaking with a coil that would wrap around the upper [radiator] hose and it got an extra five miles to the gallon. … So I've been there on this discovery stuff.”

Commercializing research – the focus of the government's science and technology policy – is an area where Canada needs to make improvements, he says.

“If we are going to be serious about saving lives and improving life around this planet, if we are serious about helping the environment, then we are going to have to get some of these technologies out of the labs onto the factory floors. Made. Produced. Sold. And that is going to fulfill that talk. So yes, we have to do all of it, we have to do discovery … but it can't end there.”

Though his practical mindset regarding commercialization is admirable, the science cannot go forward if R&D is ignored.

And I mean no disrespect to Mr. Goodyear, but he seems underqualified for the position he holds.

340 jaunte  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:09:32pm

re: #334 Spare O'Lake

Is that the brest you can do?

We must sub pens disbelief.

341 yma o hyd  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:09:33pm

re: #315 Spare O'Lake

In a severe recession SOME conservative governments cut spending!

And in a booming economy, some LLL governments cut spending for basic scientific projects year by year ....

342 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:09:57pm

re: #338 taxfreekiller

Cut the Military.

Private Ins. for wounded American fighting men.

"Amnesty for illegals" with 650,000 jobs lost per month.

What will you do America

Tax the "rich" so everyone is equally poor, duh!

343 DEZes  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:10:23pm

re: #332 FurryOldGuyJeans

re: #327 CyanSnowHawk

I don't see a whole lot of mention of the Messiah-King.

That would be a bumbling boob thread. ;)

344 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:10:49pm

re: #338 taxfreekiller

Cut the Military.

Private Ins. for wounded American fighting men.

"Amnesty for illegals" with 650,000 jobs lost per month.

What will you do America

Nancy Pelosi has revised that figure to 500 million jobs lost per month.

345 Wishing  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:11:27pm

re: #323 jorline

Tea Party

April 15th party might be quite amazing!

346 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:11:35pm
347 apachegunner  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:11:52pm

re: #339 scottishbuzzsaw
Hiya cuz :>)

348 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:12:03pm

re: #339 scottishbuzzsaw

Part of Goodyear's bio from the first G&M article:


Though his practical mindset regarding commercialization is admirable, the science cannot go forward if R&D is ignored.

And I mean no disrespect to Mr. Goodyear, but he seems underqualified for the position he holds.

He'd have been a decent pick for a fiscal / economic position.

An own goal by Harper, sadly.

349 Buck  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:12:06pm

re: #263 Salamantis

Well, Canada's science minister Gary Goodyear is apparently unable to separate his creationist tendencies from his performance of the duties of his office, as attested to by his zeroing out the funding for basic genome research in Canada.

A lot of research is going to take a hit. Are you aware of the down turn in the economy?

All the ministers are looking for way to make budget cuts.

350 Wishing  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:13:10pm
351 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:13:11pm

This is just a drive by post - heating up at work now, appears the logjam has burst right upon me.

At first I didnt' have too much issue with this, but looking in context he's bringing up religion in a defensive manner when asked a science question, which makes him questionable, then the "I don't think we know everything yet" becomes a bit questionable. While it's a truism that's become a modern maxim, it's also the inroad to attacking what we think we do know. A science based answer would be "We don't know everything yet, but that doesn't discredit what we do know". The other quibble I have is that his correction also is standard for DI contortionists -- they don't deny day to day micro evolution, but they do deny macro evolution. He's given the DI party answer.


Dont' reply I won't be on for quite a while please.

352 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:13:14pm

re: #338 taxfreekiller

Cut the Military.

Private Ins. for wounded American fighting men.

"Amnesty for illegals" with 650,000 jobs lost per month.

What will you do America

That's just the start....

Since the F-22 is being cut, service people will now be taxed to make up the difference so that the program providing them with a weapon with which to perform their duties can continue. ////

353 sambo the lightning  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:13:38pm

re: #329 Sharmuta

Well, I didn't see there anything about supernatural. Let's make it clear: I am not going to defend his policies and judgments. And I don't think he is the best person for the job. I simply didn't find his statement immediately offending to my sense of integrity (especially for a politician ;-).

354 Ben Hur  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:14:19pm

re: #305 Salamantis

I'm back.

And I take your point about the changes being small enough to be difficult to spot, but I think any major advances would be cancelled out by modern mans focus on non-existential factors. What I mean is something like this - a boy was born recently with 11 perfectly formed and functional fingers. This would be an advantage in our modern society, with keyboard usage, etc. Natural selection would mean that since he would be more successful at doing certain things we need for survival, he would find a mate, or a mate would find him more desirable, because the chances of their DNA advancing and surviving would increase.

The problem is, in today's superficial society, chicks aren't going to kill one another to get mate with someone with 11 fingers.

I don't think I am being as clear as a can be on this.


Another example. I read an interesting article a while back that short stocky people will survive longer because their bodies can take more abuse of modern society.

But, in the face of a society that finds height more attractive, and tall people more successful, I can't see a shortening of the human race over time.

355 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:14:31pm

re: #343 DEZes

That would be a bumbling boob thread. ;)

Hey a new headline.

Bumbling Boob Bothers Blog Bunch

356 brookly red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:15:26pm

re: #333 opnion

Yes the Universe is expanding, but how dare you sir suggest that it is at the same rate as the Dear Leaders taxation & spending!
Perhaps a reeducation camp would adjust your attitude.

awwww, not afuckingain! look, camps don't work can I get a freakin voucher this time?

357 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:15:33pm

re: #346 macsrule

Who had the over/under on 346?

358 jaunte  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:15:34pm

re: #346 macsrule

You can write about what you want to write about. You can even post spinoff links to what you think is important. Given the freedom you have on this site, provided by our host, it's pretty rude to complain. Do something about it yourself.

359 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:16:07pm

re: #346 macsrule

I've been coming to this site less and less because every time I do there is a creationist post/rant whatever you want to call it. ... I wish LGF would get back to the kick butt blog it was when I first started reading.

You mean when commenters would rave about Ben Stein in threads, and downding en masse commenters who stood up for the science? Those good ol' days?

360 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:16:33pm
361 brookly red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:16:50pm

re: #357 CyanSnowHawk

Who had the over/under on 346?

even money.

362 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:17:18pm

re: #346 macsrule

Gee, you come in and complain about the food and furnishings our host has provided for free. A mite rude of you.

363 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:17:32pm

re: #354 Ben Hur

I'm back.

And I take your point about the changes being small enough to be difficult to spot, but I think any major advances would be cancelled out by modern mans focus on non-existential factors. What I mean is something like this - a boy was born recently with 11 perfectly formed and functional fingers. This would be an advantage in our modern society, with keyboard usage, etc. Natural selection would mean that since he would be more successful at doing certain things we need for survival, he would find a mate, or a mate would find him more desirable, because the chances of their DNA advancing and surviving would increase.

The problem is, in today's superficial society, chicks aren't going to kill one another to get mate with someone with 11 fingers.

I don't think I am being as clear as a can be on this.


Another example. I read an interesting article a while back that short stocky people will survive longer because their bodies can take more abuse of modern society.

But, in the face of a society that finds height more attractive, and tall people more successful, I can't see a shortening of the human race over time.

Most short stocky people do marry and reproduce, though.

364 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:17:39pm

re: #353 sambo the lightning

Well, I didn't see there anything about supernatural.

Then you're willfully obtuse, because his chosen evasion was "I'm a Christian".

365 jorline  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:17:43pm
366 yma o hyd  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:17:51pm

re: #337 Zimriel

re: #322 Ben Hur

re: #327 CyanSnowHawk

re: #331 Catttt

re: #334 Spare O'Lake


Awwwwwwww .....!

367 Ben Hur  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:18:07pm

re: #354 Ben Hur


OUr brains will not allow nature to take its course.

When asked why she is a vegetarian, even though it is not natural, my SIL always answers that our with our modern intelligence, we should know better, and overcome nature.

I see something similar in modern Natural Selection. Our intelligence, or emotions, really, will not allow Natural Selection to occur if it isn't fair to those who aren't selected.

368 Kragar  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:18:20pm

re: #355 CyanSnowHawk

Hey a new headline.

Bumbling Boob Bothers Blog Bunch

Tatas to test twitters true tenacity

369 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:18:24pm

re: #330 sambo the lightning

Yes, I never said I was a fan of him. I only said that the conclusion would be premature if based on that article.

I disagree. I think that if what was said in the article itself concerning that particular question and answer was an accurate portrayal, we can indeed conclude that he is in fact clumsily attempting to obfuscate and conceal personal anti-evolution type creationist convictions.

370 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:18:43pm

re: #347 apachegunner

Hiya cuz :>)

Hey there!

371 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:19:09pm

It sure does my heart good to see little old lady sitting on top the top comments for the day on her Birthday..She is an LGF treasure.

372 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:19:14pm

re: #324 Salamantis

When he demurs when asked whether he believes in evolution by invoking the argument from ignorance and labeling it a religious question, I think it is reasonable to derive that he is the former, not the latter.

Yeah, but did he have any reason to be asked the question because of his Christianity? What could have ticked him off is that he thought that his intellect was under attack. Most people being asked if they believe in Evolution would i think be insulted, since it is evident.

373 filetandrelease  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:19:26pm

Hey Writermom, I hope you are still here, congrats on your "I can't believe I wrote that" comment making to number 2 on the top ten list. LOL.

I swear, some of lines read here make SNL pale in comparison.

374 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:19:39pm

re: #346 macsrule

I have no position on creationism.

Irony?

375 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:19:51pm

re: #339 scottishbuzzsaw

Part of Goodyear's bio from the first G&M article:


Though his practical mindset regarding commercialization is admirable, the science cannot go forward if R&D is ignored.

And I mean no disrespect to Mr. Goodyear, but he seems underqualified for the position he holds.

There doesn't seem to be a single whit of evolutionary instruction in his academic record.

376 Pass The Moonbaticide  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:19:57pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Chiropractic 'occulty', and therefore incompatible with the Christian faith ?

377 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:20:12pm

re: #357 CyanSnowHawk

Who had the over/under on 346?

Karma: -2
macsrule
(Logged in)
Registered since: Jan 3, 2008 at 11:11 am
No. of comments posted: 2
No. of links posted: 0

Complainer has been here for over a year and has made only 2 posts?!? Anyone wanna bet the previous post was a complaint or a "I'm a newbie"?

378 Ben Hur  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:20:15pm

re: #363 SanFranciscoZionist

Most short stocky people do marry and reproduce, though.

Unfortunately! Staaaam. Just kidding. Obviously yes, but natural selection should have it that they would at a lesser rate. And now with the internet and all........

379 jorline  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:20:44pm
380 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:20:51pm
381 kansas  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:21:01pm

re: #376 Pass The Moonbaticide

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Chiropractic 'occulty', and therefore incompatible with the Christian faith ?

You are wrong. Occult? Shit.

382 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:21:02pm

re: #356 brookly red

awwww, not afuckingain! look, camps don't work can I get a freakin voucher this time?


Only if you repent of your doubting of the Dear Leader. BTW, Obama does not like vouchers.

383 Ben Hur  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:21:06pm

Otherwise, there really isn't anything on Earth as beatiful as the female form.

384 apachegunner  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:21:19pm

re: #371 HoosierHoops
hey Hoops!

385 snowcrash  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:21:28pm

re: #371 HoosierHoops
Thanks for the reminder! Add one more to the total.

386 DEZes  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:21:49pm

re: #371 HoosierHoops

It sure does my heart good to see little old lady sitting on top the top comments for the day on her Birthday..She is an LGF treasure.


Thanks for reminding me, Up-ding away.

387 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:22:01pm

re: #372 opnion

Yeah, but did he have any reason to be asked the question because of his Christianity? What could have ticked him off is that he thought that his intellect was under attack. Most people being asked if they believe in Evolution would i think be insulted, since it is evident.

No, there was every reason to ask him the question, because he is his country's science minister, and has zeroed out its budget for bioscience genome research. The question doesn't even fucking MENTION either religion or Christianity; only his answer mentions them.

388 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:22:14pm

re: #367 Ben Hur

OUr brains will not allow nature to take its course.

When asked why she is a vegetarian, even though it is not natural, my SIL always answers that our with our modern intelligence, we should know better, and overcome nature.

I see something similar in modern Natural Selection. Our intelligence, or emotions, really, will not allow Natural Selection to occur if it isn't fair to those who aren't selected.

I think they call that the Judaeo-Christian tradition...aka unnatural selection.

389 macsrule  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:22:17pm

re: #374 Slumbering Behemoth

No. Nothing ironic about it. I simply choose to recognize other people's right to their own opinion that I may or may not agree with. And like an adult I choose to not labor over it and move on.

390 zombie  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:22:26pm
“We are evolving every year, every decade. That’s a fact, whether it is to the intensity of the sun, whether it is to, as a chiropractor, walking on cement versus anything else, whether it is running shoes or high heels, of course we are evolving to our environment. But that’s not relevant and that is why I refused to answer the question. The interview was about our science and tech strategy, which is strong.”

Oh. My. God.

This guy is something even worse than a creationist: He's a Lamarckian.

Lamarck put forth the idea that species evolve due to attributes individuals acquire after birth. In fact, it was in response to Lamarckian theory that Darwin came up with a better one. Not just "better" -- turns out Lamarsk's theory was entirely discredited and proven factually wrong, whereas Darwin was proven right.

So Canada’s Minister of State for Science and Technology doesn't simply adhere to a "non-theory" like creationism -- which would be bad enough -- he believes in a discredited theory.

More terrifyingly, he doesn't even seem to know he is doing this. He's trying to show he knows about evolution. He appears to be fundamentally ignorant of how the evolutionary process works.

391 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:22:27pm

re: #380 buzzsawmonkey

I still say that Charles needs to do a "Creationist Clip 'n' Save" post that will be available on a sidebar. Macrule's post conforms so closely to a certain type that a "Clip 'n' Save" version could have saved him time.

A "Creationist Clip 'n' Save" post could be part of the boost in productivity that will help lift America out of its current economic woes!

So you want a Creationist post menu, one from column a and two from column b, like this were a Chinese restaurant? ;)

392 kansas  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:22:33pm

How many here who are whacking this guy believe that sticking some needles in some make believe points does anything?

393 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:23:15pm
394 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:23:30pm

re: #384 apachegunner

hey Hoops!

How ya doing gunner? How is NV treating you this week?
I have picked Louisville to win the NCAA Championship..

395 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:23:49pm

re: #373 filetandrelease

Hey Writermom, I hope you are still here, congrats on your "I can't believe I wrote that" comment making to number 2 on the top ten list. LOL.

I swear, some of lines read here make SNL pale in comparison.

Had to look it up. That was funny. Good job Writermom.

396 macsrule  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:24:04pm

re: #377 FurryOldGuyJeans

Yah I'm a lurker so what. And no I'm not going to argue with you.

397 sambo the lightning  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:24:04pm

re: #364 Zimriel

Well, you may be right, if he really invoked that as an argument. You see, my aversion to Globe and Mail makes me believe that they somehow tricked him ;-), and, being of rather moderate intellectual powers, he succumbed to the provocation ;-).

398 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:24:45pm

And in other news...

Fear not, Britons, the Nanny State is here to protect you.

LONDON – A TV ad showing actress Angelina Jolie firing weapons must not be shown because it could be seen as condoning gun violence, Britain's advertising watchdog said Wednesday.

399 Wishing  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:24:47pm

re: #373 filetandrelease

Hey Writermom, I hope you are still here, congrats on your "I can't believe I wrote that" comment making to number 2 on the top ten list. LOL.

I swear, some of lines read here make SNL pale in comparison.

I tried to upding you, but the dinger is not cooperating!

400 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:24:52pm

re: #346 macsrule

I think that you are either naive to not discern the threat that this movement poses to US public school science education, or you are dishonest when you claim that it doesn't matter to you, and that in fact it DOES matter, and that you are on the side of theocracy.

401 brookly red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:24:55pm

re: #382 opnion

Only if you repent of your doubting of the Dear Leader. BTW, Obama does not like vouchers.

Oh, but I never doubted him... he is the antichrist 4 sure.

402 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:25:00pm
403 apachegunner  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:25:13pm

re: #394 HoosierHoops

How ya doing gunner? How is NV treating you this week?
I have picked Louisville to win the NCAA Championship..

uhhhh, how about Memphis? I am currently at Yucca Flats, just outside Mecury, NV. What a deserted place!

404 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:25:26pm

re: #392 kansas

How many here who are whacking this guy believe that sticking some needles in some make believe points does anything?

I'm sure it does something. Like hurt, maybe. Information extraction?

405 yma o hyd  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:25:40pm

re: #360 Slumbering Behemoth

OT: Obama backs off plan to alter vets' healthcare

Found via HotAir.

Thanks - but don't count yer chickens yet, will you!
see this (from the link):
'Jim King, the national executive director for American Veterans (AMVETS), said that the meeting with Rahm Emanuel lasted all of 15 minutes and that the health insurance issue was the only topic discussed. The representatives of the 11 veterans organizations told Emanuel they were not willing to back down, and the chief of staff told them that he thought the issue was “off the table,” but that he needed to talk to Obama.'
(Emphasis by me)

Rahm 'thinks' its off the table, because the vets tell him they won't back down - but PB0 has not decided, Rahm 'needs to talk to him'.

I hope the vets scared the living beyasus out of Rahm - whichever way this turns out, its verrrry interesting!

406 kansas  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:25:49pm

re: #404 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm sure it does something. Like hurt, maybe. Information extraction?

Is it safe?

407 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:26:13pm

re: #349 Buck

A lot of research is going to take a hit. Are you aware of the down turn in the economy?

All the ministers are looking for way to make budget cuts.

Umm...he's not cutting OTHER areas of the science budget...

408 Dianna  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:26:21pm

re: #392 kansas

How many here who are whacking this guy believe that sticking some needles in some make believe points does anything?

What?

409 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:26:27pm

re: #402 buzzsawmonkey

the occasional loopy rant

Hey!

410 zombie  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:26:28pm

re: #397 sambo the lightning

Well, you may be right, if he really invoked that as an argument. You see, my aversion to Globe and Mail makes me believe that they somehow tricked him ;-), and, being of rather moderate intellectual powers, he succumbed to the provocation ;-).

If someone asks you about evolution, and your response is to bring up the topic of religion -- you're a creationist. Otherwise, the change of topic wouldn't even occur to you.

The very fact that, as I pointed out in comment #390, he doesn't know the first thing about evolutionary theory, confirms the likelihood he is not an evolutionist.

411 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:26:54pm

re: #375 Salamantis

There doesn't seem to be a single whit of evolutionary instruction in his academic record.

No, there doesn't, Sal. Again, I like his curiosity and hands-on practical approach, but I fear the totality of science today has passed him by. He'd have made an excellent assistant to Edison!

412 kansas  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:26:58pm

re: #408 Dianna

What?

Acupuncture.

413 Wishing  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:27:11pm

re: #394 HoosierHoops

How ya doing gunner? How is NV treating you this week?
I have picked Louisville to win the NCAA Championship..

He is sadly mistaken, UCONN will win of course. OTOH, any team that will beat NC will get cheers from me.
No offense to NC or NC fans...but the King of Nothing spent his time mulling over the brackets rather than dealing with some national difficulties we are facing and sadly, he chose NC to take it all.

414 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:27:15pm

re: #339 scottishbuzzsaw

Huh. Actually, it's an impressive bio, IMHO. He's more inclined to support the D side of the R & D equation because of his personal history of inventing cool stuff. I'm not ready to say he's worthy of losing his post....yet.

When I was getting my master's (biochemistry, research in molecular biology) there was a fair amount of resentment among professors about the HUGE research dollars going to the Human Genome Project, because it meant fewer dollars for other areas of research. And that came from biochemistry and genetics professors, not creationists or luddites.

He's got a tough job, so I'm not going to help leftists in their witch hunt until he does something bad.

415 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:27:29pm

re: #403 apachegunner

uhhhh, how about Memphis? I am currently at Yucca Flats, just outside Mecury, NV. What a deserted place!

I picked them last year when they had 3 players drafted by the NBA including the number 1 pick..and they still lost.
/ I've never picked the winner yet...dang it!

416 SanFranciscoZionist  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:28:09pm

re: #367 Ben Hur

OUr brains will not allow nature to take its course.

When asked why she is a vegetarian, even though it is not natural, my SIL always answers that our with our modern intelligence, we should know better, and overcome nature.

I see something similar in modern Natural Selection. Our intelligence, or emotions, really, will not allow Natural Selection to occur if it isn't fair to those who aren't selected.

Well, vegetarianism is 'natural' in the sense that humans around the world have chosen it for at least thousands of years for different philosophical, practical, personal and religious reasons. Similarly, humans make societies, and care for one another, and I would argue that is a part of our natural selection. A group that takes care of a frail old lady is a group that passes better information on the next generation about what plants you can eat, and how to stay warm in the cave.

I don't know where the line between practical development and moral consciousness is, but I think both play a role in who we are as a species.

417 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:28:23pm
418 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:28:36pm

re: #396 macsrule

Yah I'm a lurker so what. And no I'm not going to argue with you.

You have nothing to cogently argue about. You just want to put up a fuss.

The world of 2009 is not the world of 2008, let alone 2001 or 2004. Things have changed drastically, such as there being a functioning democracy in the heart of the Middle East. Why not just bitch and moan about wanting things to be like 9/10. It makes as much sense as you wanting a return to how lgf used to be here.

419 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:28:36pm

re: #406 kansas

Is what safe?

/never even seen that film, but that clip is famous

420 brookly red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:28:49pm

re: #412 kansas

Acupuncture.


please remember not to answer the phone with an ear full of needles...

421 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:29:23pm

re: #414 funky chicken

Huh. Actually, it's an impressive bio, IMHO. He's more inclined to support the D side of the R & D equation because of his personal history of inventing cool stuff. I'm not ready to say he's worthy of losing his post....yet.

When I was getting my master's (biochemistry, research in molecular biology) there was a fair amount of resentment among professors about the HUGE research dollars going to the Human Genome Project, because it meant fewer dollars for other areas of research. And that came from biochemistry and genetics professors, not creationists or luddites.

He's got a tough job, so I'm not going to help leftists in their witch hunt until he does something bad.

Indeed I meant no disrespect. Just seems the cutting edge is so far beyond. Perhaps I am mistaken.

422 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:29:25pm

re: #390 zombie

Oh. My. God.

This guy is something even worse than a creationist: He's a Lamarckian.

Lamarck put forth the idea that species evolve due to attributes individuals acquire after birth. In fact, it was in response to Lamarckian theory that Darwin came up with a better one. Not just "better" -- turns out Lamarsk's theory was entirely discredited and proven factually wrong, whereas Darwin was proven right.

So Canada’s Minister of State for Science and Technology doesn't simply adhere to a "non-theory" like creationism -- which would be bad enough -- he believes in a discredited theory.

More terrifyingly, he doesn't even seem to know he is doing this. He's trying to show he knows about evolution. He appears to be fundamentally ignorant of how the evolutionary process works.

BINGO. He has confused the term "evolution" with "adaptation".
He's not a creationist at all - he's just an idiot.

423 zombie  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:29:44pm

BTW, it was not Darwin who permanently buried Lamarckianism -- Darwin actually had no data about what enables "descent with modification": it was Gregor Mendel, and then the discoverers of DNA, most notably Crick and Watson. Lamarck was known to be off-base as early as the 1860s; he was proven wrong finally in the 1950s.

But Canada’s Minister of State for Science and Technology doesn't seem to know this.

424 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:30:12pm

re: #394 HoosierHoops

How ya doing gunner? How is NV treating you this week?
I have picked Louisville to win the NCAA Championship..

I have Louisville too. I have Duke in the Championship game. How about you?

425 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:30:31pm

re: #405 yma o hyd

Oh, I am not counting any chickens yet. I don't think this is quite over. Still haven't seen squat about this on the TV news.

426 filetandrelease  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:30:36pm

re: #399 Wishing

I tried to upding you, but the dinger is not cooperating!


Thanks, my karma is always in need of a boost.

427 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:30:42pm

re: #399 Wishing

I tried to upding you, but the dinger is not cooperating!

Dinger Down, Desirous Dude Disappointed

428 Ben Hur  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:30:50pm

re: #416 SanFranciscoZionist


Interesting points.

Though, regarding vegetarianism, if it was natural for humans to only eat vegetation, we'd all have a four chambered stomach like a cow. Especially after thousands of years.

429 yma o hyd  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:30:58pm

re: #399 Wishing

I tried to upding you, but the dinger is not cooperating!

Reload the page - mine stopped as well, now its doing its duty again!

430 Dianna  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:31:00pm

re: #412 kansas

Acupuncture.

Oh. I'm the wrong person to ask. I think it's nonsense. I also think Qui Gong is flat-out idiotic, and most Chinese medicine depends on belief.

That's my problem, one suspects.

431 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:31:01pm

re: #354 Ben Hur

I'm back.

And I take your point about the changes being small enough to be difficult to spot, but I think any major advances would be cancelled out by modern mans focus on non-existential factors. What I mean is something like this - a boy was born recently with 11 perfectly formed and functional fingers. This would be an advantage in our modern society, with keyboard usage, etc. Natural selection would mean that since he would be more successful at doing certain things we need for survival, he would find a mate, or a mate would find him more desirable, because the chances of their DNA advancing and surviving would increase.

The problem is, in today's superficial society, chicks aren't going to kill one another to get mate with someone with 11 fingers.

I don't think I am being as clear as a can be on this.


Another example. I read an interesting article a while back that short stocky people will survive longer because their bodies can take more abuse of modern society.

But, in the face of a society that finds height more attractive, and tall people more successful, I can't see a shortening of the human race over time.

Sexual selection is part of enviromental selection. You have to both survive and reproduce for your genes to perdure. The question would be to tease out which of the indices of sexual attractiveness are genetically based and which ones are societally based. Certainly some cultures have found bound feet, forcibly sloped foreheads, major tattooing, branding and scarring, and huge discs worn in lower lips to be turn-ons.

432 Ben Hur  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:31:28pm

re: #416 SanFranciscoZionist


Similarly, humans make societies, and care for one another, and I would argue that is a part of our natural selection. A group that takes care of a frail old lady is a group that passes better information on the next generation about what plants you can eat, and how to stay warm in the cave.

Animals do this as well.

433 JustAHouseWife  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:31:31pm

re: # 279 et al
Genome research has a lot of issues attached to it (they are really thought provoking too). Not funding genome research is not proof you have religious thoughts conflicting with your job There might be a broader reason, some one should cite specifics here before accusing such a thing. Be reasonable. Go read "Next" by the late Dr. Michael Crichton too. Scary stuff, and yes good stuff too.

My husband is an earth scientist and he believes in a higher power (not a defined thing really but called "God" in our house on most days) AND he knows Evolution is a good sound theory; no scientist could dispute it IF that was what they were arguing about scientifically (you really don't "believe" in a theory either). He knows how old the earth is in other words-not a religious man, but he's a soldier! I don't think we know any scientist that doesn't believe in God. My minister a few years back in a church I attended when I was younger, worked for JPL. And this issue is talked a lot about between scientists, at least the ones we know, and we know a few, and I've never met one that didn't believe in God outright. IMO that quote from the minister about the micro scope just means the same thing- unless you can prove he is a full on Young Earth bible thumper type, but I don't see that proved here at all.

It is a bit like a witch hunt. Sorry, IMHO it is.

434 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:32:13pm

re: #401 brookly red

Oh, but I never doubted him... he is the antichrist 4 sure.

At least. He is really starting to look like he is in the deep end without his water wings. That's why he stays in campaign mode, he is lost in the job.

435 Wishing  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:32:17pm

re: #429 yma o hyd

Reload the page - mine stopped as well, now its doing its duty again!

Got it!
Thanks!

436 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:32:38pm
437 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:32:48pm

re: #380 buzzsawmonkey

I still say that Charles needs to do a "Creationist Clip 'n' Save" post that will be available on a sidebar. Macrule's post conforms so closely to a certain type that a "Clip 'n' Save" version could have saved him time.

CREATIONIST FORM LETTER

Dear Charles,

I'm a
[]longtime poster with 0-3 comments since January 2008
[]longtime lurker
[]sockpuppet

who just read your post on
[]that fossil disproving another talking point
[]speech by []Hitchens []PZ Myers []Dawkins []the Pope
[]picture from the Hubble
[]Disco Dewdz saying something dumb
[]some politician stepping on his dick
[]Bobby Jindal

and I am feeling
[]upset
[]saddened
[]betrayed, befuddled, bewildered
[]so angry I could spit

I am not a creationist. I have a degree in
[]biochemistry
[]something
[]science
[]*mumble*

and according to the noted scientist
[]Behe
[]Johnson
[]Ron Paul

There are too many unanswered questions. What about
[]the bacterial flagellum
[]no transitional fossils
[]Darwin's NAZISM!

Huh? I'm just saying we can't know everything. In conclusion
[]I'll be praying for you
[]Just sayin'
[]Please delete my account

438 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:32:50pm

re: #387 Salamantis

No, there was every reason to ask him the question, because he is his country's science minister, and has zeroed out its budget for bioscience genome research. The question doesn't even fucking MENTION either religion or Christianity; only his answer mentions them.

No, he zeroed out the budget for NEW projects for Genome Canada. He didn't kill Genome Canada or old projects.

It's a big difference, and enough to adopt a wait and see attitude.

439 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:32:56pm

re: #417 buzzsawmonkey

whether or not we amuse you

Like we're clowns, we amuse macsrule? We make him laugh, we're here to fuckin' amuse him? What do you mean funny, funny how? How are we funny?

/

440 kansas  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:33:07pm

re: #419 Slumbering Behemoth

re: #430 Dianna

Oh. I'm the wrong person to ask. I think it's nonsense. I also think Qui Gong is flat-out idiotic, and most Chinese medicine depends on belief.

That's my problem, one suspects.

Do you know what Qui Gong is? Is it a machine or what?

441 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:34:10pm

re: #431 Salamantis

And Zombie's got the pictures to prove it.

442 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:34:50pm
443 Ben Hur  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:35:18pm

re: #440 kansas

re: #430 Dianna


Do you know what Qui Gong is? Is it a machine or what?

It's the boat from Moby Dick.

Jeez.

444 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:35:19pm

re: #424 opnion

I have Louisville too. I have Duke in the Championship game. How about you?

I got Pitt on the other side...Now folks..In full disclosure on Monday when I was filling out my brackets I went out to BBQ and in a tree landed above the most beautiful Cardinal.. That cinched it for me.. A sign from the Basketball gods...
/Wonder why I have never been right before? It's a complete mystery.

445 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:36:13pm

re: #431 Salamantis

Sexual selection is part of enviromental selection. You have to both survive and reproduce for your genes to perdure. The question would be to tease out which of the indices of sexual attractiveness are genetically based and which ones are societally based. Certainly some cultures have found bound feet, forcibly sloped foreheads, major tattooing, branding and scarring, and huge discs worn in lower lips to be turn-ons.

Don't disc me, bro.

446 yma o hyd  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:36:19pm

re: #425 Slumbering Behemoth

Oh, I am not counting any chickens yet. I don't think this is quite over. Still haven't seen squat about this on the TV news.

I really liked reading that the vets told Rahm they were not backing down on this - hurrah for them!

If PB0 takes it off the table - we've learned that he backs down when people with a spine stand up to him.

If he doesn't - he will learn something less agreeable, I'm sure.

447 Ben Hur  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:36:21pm

re: #431 Salamantis

Understood.

Thanks for the clear explanation.

448 kansas  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:36:25pm

re: #443 Ben Hur

It's the boat from Moby Dick.

Jeez.

I thought it was from the Qui Gong show a few years back with Chuck Barris.

449 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:36:29pm

re: #430 Dianna

Oh. I'm the wrong person to ask. I think it's nonsense. I also think Qui Gong is flat-out idiotic, and most Chinese medicine depends on belief.

That's my problem, one suspects.

Qui Gong is a Jedi. Would you be talking about Fung Shui?

450 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:36:34pm

re: #437 Zimriel

I bow to your wit and speed, DUDE! ;)

451 Ben Hur  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:36:48pm

BBL

452 filetandrelease  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:37:18pm

re: #423 zombie

BTW, it was not Darwin who permanently buried Lamarckianism -- Darwin actually had no data about what enables "descent with modification": it was Gregor Mendel, and then the discoverers of DNA, most notably Crick and Watson. Lamarck was known to be off-base as early as the 1860s; he was proven wrong finally in the 1950s.

But Canada’s Minister of State for Science and Technology doesn't seem to know this.


Damn, quite a trove of stuff you got up there in that noggin.

453 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:37:18pm

re: #414 funky chicken

Huh. Actually, it's an impressive bio, IMHO. He's more inclined to support the D side of the R & D equation because of his personal history of inventing cool stuff. I'm not ready to say he's worthy of losing his post....yet.

When I was getting my master's (biochemistry, research in molecular biology) there was a fair amount of resentment among professors about the HUGE research dollars going to the Human Genome Project, because it meant fewer dollars for other areas of research. And that came from biochemistry and genetics professors, not creationists or luddites.

He's got a tough job, so I'm not going to help leftists in their witch hunt until he does something bad.

ZEROING OUT the entire genome research budget is pretty friggin' bad, in my opinion.

454 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:37:22pm

re: #437 Zimriel
That was an awesome post and insight
ding-a-ling!

455 Kragar  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:37:55pm

re: #440 kansas

re: #430 Dianna


Do you know what Qui Gong is? Is it a machine or what?

I thought he was Obi Wan's master

456 kansas  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:37:55pm

re: #437 Zimriel

I think we all owe Zimriel a round of applause for that post.

457 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:38:05pm

re: #448 kansas

I thought it was from the Qui Gong show a few years back with Chuck Barris.

I thought it was from what Peter said to Jesus after Jesus panned his tap-dancing act on that show: Qui Gong, Domine?

458 Ben Hur  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:38:05pm

re: #398 Occasional Reader

And in other news...

Fear not, Britons, the Nanny State is here to protect you.

But what if she's aiming at an ISraeli/Joo?!?

BBL!

459 Dianna  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:38:08pm

re: #440 kansas

re: #430 Dianna

Do you know what Qui Gong is? Is it a machine or what?

My last semi-boyfriend was a practitioner. To quote him:

Qui Gong is an ancient Chinese healing art that balances the body's energies through passes of the hands over the body in a set sequence.

I am not responsible for that definition.

I'm sure Wiki has something on it.

460 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:38:12pm
461 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:38:52pm

re: #449 CyanSnowHawk

Qui Gong is a Jedi. Would you be talking about Fung Shui?

Qui Gong

(And I was thinking the same thing until I did some yahooing!)

462 rightwinger3  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:39:24pm

re: #423 zombie

BTW, it was not Darwin who permanently buried Lamarckianism -- Darwin actually had no data about what enables "descent with modification": it was Gregor Mendel, and then the discoverers of DNA, most notably Crick and Watson. Lamarck was known to be off-base as early as the 1860s; he was proven wrong finally in the 1950s.

But Canada’s Minister of State for Science and Technology doesn't seem to know this.

Memo's were not invented until somewhere around 1980, zombie.

463 MarineMomSue  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:39:34pm

While congress & O are busy being outraged over AIG, here's some news you might have missed in the MSM.

Remember murtha's rant about the cold blooded Marine-killers at Haditha?

SAN DIEGO (AP) -
A military appeals court has upheld the DISSMISSAL of war crime charges against the highest-ranking Marine charged with killing 24 civilians in Iraq in 2005.

The ruling on Tuesday agreed with a Camp Pendleton military judge's decision to dismiss charges against Lt. Col. Jeffrey Chessani.
In June 2008, the judge found that a four-star general overseeing the case was improperly influenced by an investigator probing the killings in Haditha.

And then there's this little gem:

Woman Recants Claim Marine Raped Her

MANILA, Philippines - A Filipino woman whose accusations of rape led to the conviction of a U.S. Marine has altered her testimony and emigrated to the United States, saying she was no longer certain that a crime took place, a lawyer said Wednesday.

The case has strained U.S.-Philippine military relations amid calls for the scrapping of a pact allowing U.S. troops to train Filipino soldiers, and has become a rallying point for anti-American protests.

Three years after Lance Cpl. Daniel Smith was convicted of rape and sentenced to 40 years in jail, his accuser submitted a five-page affidavit to an appeals court Tuesday saying she now doubts her own version of events.

The U.S. Embassy in Manila is consulting with American government legal experts in Washington on the case, embassy spokeswoman Rebecca Thompson said, without elaborating. She refused to comment on reports that the woman had gone to the United States.

Smith, 23, from St. Louis, Missouri, has been detained at the U.S. Embassy while his case is on appeal. Last month, the Philippine Supreme Court ruled he should be serving his sentence in a Philippine jail but left it to the government to negotiate his transfer with Washington. Smith is appealing his conviction.

464 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:39:34pm

re: #460 stanleymberg

Remember when this site was interesting?

Nobody comes here anymore, it's too crowded.

465 yma o hyd  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:39:41pm

re: #430 Dianna

Oh. I'm the wrong person to ask. I think it's nonsense. I also think Qui Gong is flat-out idiotic, and most Chinese medicine depends on belief.

That's my problem, one suspects.

Acupuncture has been tried on me - waste of time and money, imho.
In those cases where it 'works', I think its the famous placebo effect, rather than the needles stuck into various body parts.

466 kansas  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:39:47pm

re: #459 Dianna

My last semi-boyfriend was a practitioner. To quote him:

Qui Gong is an ancient Chinese healing art that balances the body's energies through passes of the hands over the body in a set sequence.

I am not responsible for that definition.

I'm sure Wiki has something on it.

Thanks. I wonder who decided on the sequence or how passing one's hands over the points has anything to do with energy. What BS.

467 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:39:56pm

re: #460 stanleymberg

Remember when this site was interesting?

Still is.

468 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:40:06pm

re: #460 stanleymberg

Remember when this site was interesting?

Still is, for a lot of people.

More trollish behavior, eh?

469 Dianna  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:40:10pm

re: #449 CyanSnowHawk

Qui Gong is a Jedi. Would you be talking about Fung Shui?

No.

Feng Shui is the art of arranging one's surroundings to promote harmony.

It's got some interesting concepts embedded under the currently-popularized nonsense for Western consumption.

470 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:40:43pm

re: #458 Ben Hur

But what if she's aiming at an ISraeli/Joo?!?

And then one day he was shootin' at some Joos
and up from the ground came a-bubblin' crude
Oil, that is...

-"The Bel-Arabs", Saturday Night Live, circa (?) 1979

471 snowcrash  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:40:57pm

Someone needs to fill out the form letter and be the first to submit it.

472 kansas  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:41:06pm

re: #463 MarineMomSue

I hope Chessani sues the ^&^% out of that &*&&^% Murtha.

473 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:41:13pm
474 filetandrelease  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:41:21pm

re: #439 Occasional Reader

Like we're clowns, we amuse macsrule? We make him laugh, we're here to fuckin' amuse him? What do you mean funny, funny how? How are we funny?

/


Refer to Writermoms earlier comment now residing at the coveted #2 ranking in the Top Comment section.

475 Dianna  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:41:52pm

re: #457 Occasional Reader

I thought it was from what Peter said to Jesus after Jesus panned his tap-dancing act on that show: Qui Gong, Domine?

Um...Quo Vadis is a late Victorian novel about early Christianity.

476 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:41:56pm

re: #469 Dianna

No.

Feng Shui is the art of arranging one's surroundings to promote harmony.

It's got some interesting concepts embedded under the currently-popularized nonsense for Western consumption.

A lot of ancient wisdom has to get dumbed down for Western consumption.

477 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:42:00pm

re: #433 JustAHouseWife

re: # 279 et al
Genome research has a lot of issues attached to it (they are really thought provoking too). Not funding genome research is not proof you have religious thoughts conflicting with your job There might be a broader reason, some one should cite specifics here before accusing such a thing. Be reasonable. Go read "Next" by the late Dr. Michael Crichton too. Scary stuff, and yes good stuff too.

My husband is an earth scientist and he believes in a higher power (not a defined thing really but called "God" in our house on most days) AND he knows Evolution is a good sound theory; no scientist could dispute it IF that was what they were arguing about scientifically (you really don't "believe" in a theory either). He knows how old the earth is in other words-not a religious man, but he's a soldier! I don't think we know any scientist that doesn't believe in God. My minister a few years back in a church I attended when I was younger, worked for JPL. And this issue is talked a lot about between scientists, at least the ones we know, and we know a few, and I've never met one that didn't believe in God outright. IMO that quote from the minister about the micro scope just means the same thing- unless you can prove he is a full on Young Earth bible thumper type, but I don't see that proved here at all.

It is a bit like a witch hunt. Sorry, IMHO it is.

When he makes a beeline for religion and an argument from ignorance when asked a scientific question about whether or not he accepted evolution, I think only the most wilfully obtuse could entertain any doubt concerning his rejection of evolution.

478 eschew_obfuscation  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:42:06pm

re: #472 kansas

I hope Chessani sues the ^&^% out of that &*&&^% Murtha.

Some of the other soldiers from that case did sue Murtha IIRC. I wonder what happened to that case?

479 sambo the lightning  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:42:34pm

re: #410 zombie

Pretty much so. I wouldn't call him an "evolutionist", either ;-). "Confused" is the word that comes to my mind. The shrewdest politicians, creationists or not, will not let you know what they really think. Their grasp of science is generally zero (creationists or not), and whoever gets there has about the same capacity to help science (on the whole) as his/her predecessor. It is either this or global warming, you know ;-).

480 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:42:37pm

re: #460 stanleymberg

Remember when this site was interesting?

Oh boo-hoo..Shut the fuck up! What topic didn't we cover this week that kept your interest?
Gawd I hate little crybabies

481 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:42:43pm

re: #438 funky chicken

No, he zeroed out the budget for NEW projects for Genome Canada.

Isn't he the new goalie for the Leafs?

482 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:42:53pm

re: #475 Dianna

Um...Quo Vadis is a late Victorian novel about early Christianity.

Um... yes, see, that was the basis of the pun, "Quo Vadis, Domine", get it?

483 lobo91  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:42:58pm

re: #476 FurryOldGuyJeans

A lot of ancient wisdom has to get dumbed down for Western consumption.

Hell, so does our own Constitution.

484 DEZes  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:43:20pm

re: #460 stanleymberg

You sure don't remember a thing called manners.

485 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:43:32pm
486 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:44:28pm
487 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:44:29pm

re: #440 kansas

re: #430 Dianna

Do you know what Qui Gong is? Is it a machine or what?

If you're asking me, I have no clue.

488 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:44:31pm

re: #480 HoosierHoops

Oh boo-hoo..Shut the fuck up! What topic didn't we cover this week that kept your interest?
Gawd I hate little crybabies

Maybe you should quit beating around the bush and tell us all exactly what's on your mind, eh? ;)

489 Dianna  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:44:35pm

re: #476 FurryOldGuyJeans

A lot of ancient wisdom has to get dumbed down for Western consumption.

Oh, indeed!

490 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:45:03pm
491 Dianna  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:45:08pm

re: #482 Occasional Reader

Um... yes, see, that was the basis of the pun, "Quo Vadis, Domine", get it?

Not enough syllables to make a good pun, OR.

492 Throbert McGee  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:45:36pm

re: #440 kansas

Do you know what Qui Gong is?

I thought he was the guy who discovered midochlorians...

493 Lincolntf  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:45:40pm

re: #490 Conservative in Liberal Hands

What a guy.

494 snowcrash  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:45:49pm

re: #485 taxfreekiller
TFK, that VA Vet bill won't really go away. It will probably be buried in the next 1000 page porkulus bill that no one reads but signs into law.

495 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:46:01pm

re: #469 Dianna

No.

Feng Shui is the art of arranging one's surroundings to promote harmony.

It's got some interesting concepts embedded under the currently-popularized nonsense for Western consumption.

Furry gave me a link that explained it. I still think the Jedi remark was funnier and he's my favorite character to play in Lego Star Wars: The Complete Saga on Wii.

496 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:46:11pm

Looks like the Editorial in the Washington Times reported here in an earlier thread may have been in error.

Federal Officials Deny Report That Obama Seeks to End Pilot Gun Program

*snip*

In a statement issued Tuesday, the Airlines Pilots Association International -- the world's largest airline pilot union, representing nearly 52,250 pilots in the U.S. and Canada -- said the Times editorial "couldn't be further from the truth."

"ALPA representatives met with TSA executives this afternoon and were told in no uncertain terms that TSA embraces the FFDO program, that there are no plans to reduce or restrict its growth, and that in fact the agency fully intends to grow and expand the program," the statement read. "Government representatives acknowledged that the program needs additional funding to achieve these goals, and that they are actively seeking same."

*snip*

24 hour rule implied by this?

497 DEZes  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:46:17pm

re: #486 buzzsawmonkey

Speaking of which, where is Mandy?


Not sure, someone else will have to tell stanleymberg to go piss up a rope.

498 quickjustice  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:46:25pm

I agree with Charles. This guy can't even articulate what evolution is. He lacks a scientific vocabulary. And he thinks "I am a Christian" answers the question? He must have political skills to be where he is, but a scientist, he is not.

499 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:46:40pm

re: #476 FurryOldGuyJeans

A lot of ancient wisdom has to get dumbed down for Western consumption.

You mean like ancient Chinese secrets?

500 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:46:44pm

re: #497 DEZes

Not sure, someone else will have to tell stanleymberg to go piss up a rope.

I think you just did.

501 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:46:45pm

re: #438 funky chicken

No, he zeroed out the budget for NEW projects for Genome Canada. He didn't kill Genome Canada or old projects.

It's a big difference, and enough to adopt a wait and see attitude.

This is what we've seen:

Critics question lack of new funding for Genome Canada
[Link: www.cbc.ca...]

502 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:46:45pm
503 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:47:01pm

Genome Canada funding provides no evidence whatsoever that Goodyear is anti-science.

504 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:47:19pm

re: #493 Lincolntf

I hope that #490 does not incur the wrath of LGF. I am SO P***D OFF AT THESE @#$%%^&^&*.

505 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:47:24pm

re: #491 Dianna

Not enough syllables to make a good pun, OR.

Ben Hur updinged it. So there.

506 lobo91  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:48:00pm

re: #490 Conservative in Liberal Hands

OT but welcome news... PBO has officially withdrawn his idiotic, bas-ackwards, slimey proposal that veterans with service related injuries pay for it out of their own medical insurance.

That's not exactly the case. Reportedly, Rahm Emanuel said he thought it was dead, but had to check with Obama.

507 DEZes  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:48:01pm

re: #500 scottishbuzzsaw
MOI?
;)

508 doppelganglander  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:48:04pm

re: #474 filetandrelease

Refer to Writermoms earlier comment now residing at the coveted #2 ranking in the Top Comment section.

Zimriel manages to have comments on both the top and the bottom list. It reminds me of the time in elementary school when I brought home a blue slip (for good behavior) and a pink slip (for bad behavior) on the same day.

509 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:48:24pm

re: #503 Spare O'Lake

Genome Canada funding provides no evidence whatsoever that Goodyear is anti-science.

Interesting.

510 debutaunt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:48:30pm

re: #346 macsrule

Yup - every day just the one thread with the one topic.

511 quickjustice  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:48:59pm

re: #460 stanleymberg

Remember when you were a stranger to this site, and happy in your own little world? ;-)

512 freetoken  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:49:07pm

re: #477 Salamantis

Sal - you might want to read up on the Wiki article about Charles McVety, to start to get an idea of where the influence may be originating, on Harper's selection of individuals.

513 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:49:18pm
514 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:49:23pm

re: #506 lobo91

That's not exactly the case. Reportedly, Rahm Emanuel said he thought it was dead, but had to check with Obama.

Rahm Emanuel... Nothing more need be said.

515 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:49:24pm

re: #444 HoosierHoops

I got Pitt on the other side...Now folks..In full disclosure on Monday when I was filling out my brackets I went out to BBQ and in a tree landed above the most beautiful Cardinal.. That cinched it for me.. A sign from the Basketball gods...
/Wonder why I have never been right before? It's a complete mystery.


To tell you the truth , I am now vacillating between Louisville & Duke.
Game day decision might be new brackets. March Maddness!

516 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:49:30pm

Critics question lack of new funding for Genome Canada.

The head of the not-for-profit agency responsible for funding large-scale science and genetics projects is perplexed after the foundation was shut out of the federal budget.

Genome Canada president Martin Godbout said his organization was expecting about $120 million from the government to help fund new international research projects, including those led by Canadian scientists. That number would be in line with the $140 million the group received in the 2008 budget and the $100 million it got in 2007.

Instead, Genome Canada received no mention in this year's budget, presented Tuesday.

"It's like we fell between the chairs," said Godbout. "This was an infrastructure budget, and so money went into that, but we got nothing."

517 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:49:31pm

re: #446 yma o hyd

If he doesn't dump it, there is no way they are gonna be able to continue ignoring this on the evening news.

518 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:49:33pm

re: #459 Dianna

My last semi-boyfriend was a practitioner. To quote him:

Qui Gong is an ancient Chinese healing art that balances the body's energies through passes of the hands over the body in a set sequence.

This reminds me of Mel Brooks.

Comicus - "I'm a stand up philosopher. I coalesce the vapors of human experience into a viable and meaningful comprehension."
Unemployment Office Clerk - "Oh, a Bullshit Artist! Did you bullshit last week?"
Comicus - "No"
Unemployment Office Clerk - "Did you try to bullshit last week?"

519 yma o hyd  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:50:01pm

re: #485 taxfreekiller

If Obama has backed down on the Vet deal,Avanti for sure will come and give a high five,,,"I told you so."

Now to force he and Nancy to back down on the amnesty will be the real test.

find a way to stand up to this commie loon

[Link: www.firstgov.com...]

call them all, or call just the White House,
fax
e-mail
visit local congress or senate offices
full court press do not let up

[Link: www.taxdayteaparty.com...]

just do something

Not sure 0bama has backed down quite yet, tfk - its only Rahm who said so, after he'd been with the vets for 15 minutes. The vets told Rahm they were not going to back down on this - so Rahm then said it was off the table, but he'd ahve to talk to 0bama.

No matter how it ends - it just shows that people need to stand up and not back down.

520 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:50:21pm

re: #488 FurryOldGuyJeans

Maybe you should quit beating around the bush and tell us all exactly what's on your mind, eh? ;)

Shhhhh! He might come back whining about the site again.. I hope I didn't offend him...I've got a lot of interesting topics to share with him.

521 quickjustice  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:50:58pm

re: #459 Dianna

It's a helluva way to cop a feel! ;-)

522 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:51:05pm

re: #346 macsrule

Anyway, my point is I wish LGF would get back to the kick butt blog it was when I first started reading. My $.02. Flame away if you feel its deserving, but I personally think this is a legit concern/comment.

You think your opinion of LGF is a legitimate concern? How do you fit your ego into these tiny commenting boxes?

523 scottishbuzzsaw  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:51:18pm

re: #510 debutaunt

Yup - every day just the one thread with the one topic.

LOL! I just don't get that particular complaint. I can't keep up with the number of articles Charles posts, or stretch my mind somedays to encompass the variety!

524 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:51:19pm

re: #501 Salamantis

This is what we've seen:

Critics question lack of new funding for Genome Canada
[Link: www.cbc.ca...]

1. Read the article - existing funding has not been cut.
2. CBC is a den of leftists intent on embarrassing the government.

525 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:51:24pm

re: #519 yma o hyd

No matter how it ends - it just shows that people need to stand up and not back down.

Amen!

526 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:51:25pm

re: #490 Conservative in Liberal Hands

OT but welcome news... PBO has officially withdrawn his idiotic, bas-ackwards, slimey proposal that veterans with service related injuries pay for it out of their own medical insurance.

I hope that some one in our armed services "holds a gun" to his head to make sure that his assurance does not expire.

I wouldn't count this as being dead just yet, only on the back burner until some other crisis can be used as a screen for proposing it again.

527 Dianna  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:51:51pm

re: #521 quickjustice

It's a helluva way to cop a feel! ;-)

LOL!

528 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:52:03pm

re: #473 macsrule

Like I said before, people are entitled to their own opinions, including you. And yes I simply do not care. If you must put me in a category it would be evolution. Seems pretty clear this drum is going to be beaten loud and often and if someone doesn't agree they get ripped. To be clear I don't think they should be totally gone or become a chinese menu blah blah. It just seems to me they have become a very large part of the posts. My point s I enjoyed the site better when it had a different subject matter. Again I know I can change the channel and nobody will give a care. And to those implying this isn't some sort of shadow account, I just prefer to check in on what's going on in the world that you can't read in the MSM. Sorry I just don't have a compulsion to post 50 times a day.

You simply do not care about the dogma-coerced public high school science miseducation of this nation's youth? Gotcha.

529 filetandrelease  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:52:23pm

re: #508 doppelganglander

Zimriel manages to have comments on both the top and the bottom list. It reminds me of the time in elementary school when I brought home a blue slip (for good behavior) and a pink slip (for bad behavior) on the same day.


Bi Polar?

530 DEZes  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:52:51pm

re: #522 wrenchwench

You think your opinion of LGF is a legitimate concern? How do you fit your ego into these tiny commenting boxes?

Up-ding for that jab, I smell hair burning. ;)

531 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:53:27pm

re: #508 doppelganglander

Zimriel manages to have comments on both the top and the bottom list. It reminds me of the time in elementary school when I brought home a blue slip (for good behavior) and a pink slip (for bad behavior) on the same day.

Wow.

532 Mirage  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:53:34pm

re: #499 Occasional Reader

You mean like ancient Chinese secrets?

Calgon, take me away ... :D

533 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:53:39pm

re: #530 DEZes

Up-ding for that jab, I smell hair burning. ;)

That might be macsrule, Sticky got him.

534 lobo91  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:53:46pm

re: #526 FurryOldGuyJeans

I wouldn't count this as being dead just yet, only on the back burner until some other crisis can be used as a screen for proposing it again.

Bingo.

535 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:54:34pm

re: #490 Conservative in Liberal Hands

It is good news, but as yma o hyd said to me, don't count those chickens just yet. I don't think it's quite officially official.

536 filetandrelease  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:55:10pm

re: #522 wrenchwench

You think your opinion of LGF is a legitimate concern? How do you fit your ego into these tiny commenting boxes?


That is going to leave a mark, kinda like you threw a wrench at him you wench.

537 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:55:36pm

re: #533 CyanSnowHawk

That might be macsrule, Sticky got him.

You mean, my question will go unanswered? How ever shall I cope.....

538 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:56:16pm

Gary Goodyear wrote in the National Post on February 25, 2009:

"...Our government is committed to basic, discovery-oriented research. Compared to other nations, Canada is extremely good at supporting university-based research. We invest more in higher-education research and development than any other country in the Group of Seven as a proportion of GDP. We are second only to Sweden in the Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development and well ahead of the United States (which ranks 17th).

"Where Canada lags behind other countries, however, is in the area of commercialization -- getting innovations from the lab to the marketplace where Canadians and people around the world can benefit from our newest discoveries.

"That's why two years ago Prime Minister Stephen Harper launched our government's Science and Technology Strategy. We want to help Canadians turn their ideas into innovations, get discoveries into the marketplace and make better use of our talented researchers.

"We've put in place a strong foundation of support for science and technology over the last few years and backed up that support with significant new investments. Since 2006, our government has provided $1.3-billion to the Canada Foundation for Innovation to develop, recruit and retain the best researchers in the world...

"We recognize the importance of Genome Canada and its work, so we've provided Genome with stable, predictable, long-term funding. I look forward to continuing to work with that organization as a funding partner.

"This year, we're adding $200-million to the NRC's Industrial Research Assistance Program to help small and medium-sized businesses innovate and conduct their own research. We have also embarked on an unprecedented $2-billion program to repair, refurbish and expand research facilities at colleges and universities across Canada.

"In total, our government committed $5.1-billion to new investments for science and technology in our Economic Action Plan..."

539 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:56:22pm

WriterMom's witticism and the BuzzSawMonkey repost do deserve every upding they got. I forgot about littleoldlady's updings so thanks for reminding me, doppelganglander... pushed it from 125>126

540 Kosh's Shadow  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:56:40pm

re: #470 Occasional Reader

And then one day he was shootin' at some Joos
and up from the ground came a-bubblin' crude
Oil, that is...

-"The Bel-Arabs", Saturday Night Live, circa (?) 1979

I remember that sketch, but haven't found it you youtube or any more on it.
The last lines of the theme went:
So they moved to Bel-Air
Swimming pools, movie stars, Jews.

541 yma o hyd  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:56:44pm

Gotta go, Lizards - Madame just woke up and is giving me the eye!

Seeya tomorrow, all being well!

542 Conservative in Liberal Hands  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:56:44pm

re: #526 FurryOldGuyJeans

I wouldn't count this as being dead just yet, only on the back burner until some other crisis can be used as a screen for proposing it again.

I want to see one of those Congress-Critters-For-Life try to avoid one of our Veterans who was badly injured in the service of our country, perhaps in a wheelchair, during his or her campaign stops. Can anybody imagine the backlash at that thought? I'll bet that the photos would be all over in no time, flat.

543 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:57:29pm

re: #151 Maximu§

I have to get back to work, but those of you who laugh at us who truly believe God created the Earth and Heavens may have to answer for your deeds one day.

Let me ask this of you: Whom will you ask for help when a family member is fighting for their life on a hospital bed and the worthless Doctor says he can't do anything more? The Great Pumpkin? The Good Lord does watch and listen.

You want your martyr cookies with righteous milk?

544 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:57:33pm
545 Catttt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:58:10pm

for macsrule:

546 debutaunt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:58:32pm

re: #391 FurryOldGuyJeans

So you want a Creationist post menu, one from column a and two from column b, like this were a Chinese restaurant? ;)

I'm here for the Early Bird Creationist Thread.

547 sarah  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 2:59:35pm

Honestly there is no question. Let people believe whatever they want. I'm cool with it.

548 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:00:11pm

re: #546 debutaunt

I'm here for the Early Bird Creationist Thread.

"I'll have the Transitional-Fossil Tuna Meltdown please"

549 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:00:14pm

re: #544 Iron Fist

Chinese soft forms are really very powerful.

I do think it's obvious that traditional Chinese martial arts tapped into many insights about what the human body can do. I don't believe they were correctly identified as a semi-magical "qi" personally. It's kind of like when an Amazonian tribe attributes the workings of some medicinal herb to their local god. It may well be that the herb actually works, but not for the reasons they think.

550 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:00:24pm

re: #503 Spare O'Lake

Genome Canada funding provides no evidence whatsoever that Goodyear is anti-science.

[Link: www.cbc.ca...]

Excerpts:
The head of the not-for-profit agency responsible for funding large-scale science and genetics projects is perplexed after the foundation was shut out of the federal budget.

Genome Canada president Martin Godbout said his organization was expecting about $120 million from the government to help fund new international research projects, including those led by Canadian scientists. That number would be in line with the $140 million the group received in the 2008 budget and the $100 million it got in 2007.

Instead, Genome Canada received no mention in this year's budget, presented Tuesday.

"It's like we fell between the chairs," said Godbout. "This was an infrastructure budget, and so money went into that, but we got nothing."

Genome Canada research aims to improve forests, crops, the environment, health and new technology development.

Godbout said the lack of funding won't affect projects already underway and funded through previous budgets, but it will limit Canada's ability to contribute to new, large-scale genetics research projects.

For a government-run funding agency like the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council, no mention in a budget would mean a continuation of existing annual budgets, but for Genome Canada, which operates outside the government, a lack of funding effectively stalls any new research initiatives, said Godbout.
...

"What we're going to do is continue to remind the government that they are not doing enough in that particular area," said Garneau. "I won't tell you whether or not this is a show-stopper because I'm not making those decisions, but I think our party will continue to point out the lack of real support in science by this government."

The lack of funding for Genome Canada in the budget was "devastating," said Ken Dewar, an associate professor in human genetics at Montreal's McGill University.

"If we sit in a brand new building with brand new equipment and have scholarships for students, what are they going to do when there's no money to actually do an experiment?" he said.

The research funding is mainly used to train and maintain highly qualified personnel and to buy supplies for experiments, added Dewar.

Dewar is working on sequencing strains of C. difficile bacteria that have been plaguing hospitals.

The federal budget contrasts with that of the U.S., where funding appears to be more balanced between infrastructure upgrades and support for leading-edge research, said Dewar, who is also the acting scientific director of the McGill University and Génome Québec Innovation Centre.
...

Minister of State for Science and Technology Gary Goodyear disputed that funding was cut, saying Genome Canada was still receiving funds from the two previous budget announcements, and that these funds amounted to $106 million this year and $108 million next year.

"This government has in place two five-year contracts with Genome Canada retaining almost a quarter of a billion dollars for science research," said Goodyear. "We're doing that, Mr. Speaker, because we know Genome Canada is good for Canada and the good work they do is good for Canadians' health."

But Garneau disputed that claim, arguing the government was counting money that was previously committed in its calculations.

"Canadian scientists can only contribute to new discoveries and create the jobs of tomorrow if we give them the support they urgently need," said Garneau. "Is this government deliberately undermining Canada's scientists or [has it] simply forgotten to fund their future work?"

RTWT

551 brookly red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:00:33pm

re: #430 Dianna

Oh. I'm the wrong person to ask. I think it's nonsense. I also think Qui Gong is flat-out idiotic, and most Chinese medicine depends on belief.
That's my problem, one suspects.

Well yes and no, a lot of Chi Kung is just physical activity, streching & breating etc. It works on many levels...

552 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:00:41pm

re: #533 CyanSnowHawk

I want my 1000 quadloos.

No as spectacular as some, but it still met the requirements.

553 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:01:01pm

The word now is that Fannie & Freddie will be paying bonuses according to FNC.
Ok , will some Republican grow a Pair & hammer Barney Frank & Dodd?
I mean right at the hearings. Probably violates etiquette.

554 Dianna  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:01:10pm

re: #544 Iron Fist

It's what he said, not me.

There is a huge difference between the notion of chi, controlled by the individual, and the notion of healing arts.

One is real enough. The other...well.

555 Mirage  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:02:15pm

re: #553 opnion

The word now is that Fannie & Freddie will be paying bonuses according to FNC.
Ok , will some Republican grow a Pair & hammer Barney Frank & Dodd?
I mean right at the hearings. Probably violates etiquette.

They do need a hefty nailing ...

556 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:02:21pm

re: #544 Iron Fist

I'm familiar with Tsing Yi

As in "Tsing Yi a new song unto the Lord"?

557 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:02:30pm

re: #550 Salamantis

See my #538.

558 Dianna  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:02:30pm

re: #549 Occasional Reader

I do think it's obvious that traditional Chinese martial arts tapped into many insights about what the human body can do. I don't believe they were correctly identified as a semi-magical "qi" personally. It's kind of like when an Amazonian tribe attributes the workings of some medicinal herb to their local god. It may well be that the herb actually works, but not for the reasons they think.

S.M. Stirling - not expressing his own opinion, but in a character's voice - described it as "mystic warrior bullshit."

559 debutaunt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:02:46pm

re: #420 brookly red

please remember not to answer the phone with an ear full of needles...

The the very least, we'd know what all the screaming is about.

560 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:02:48pm

re: #552 Bubblehead II

I want my 1000 quadloos.

Not as spectacular as some, but it still met the requirements.

Gaaaaaa! PIMF!

561 Russkilitlover  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:02:50pm

re: #551 brookly red

Well yes and no, a lot of Chi Kung is just physical activity, streching & breating etc. It works on many levels...

I used to eat a lot of Chung King when I was just starting out. That worked on many levels, too.

562 Throbert McGee  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:02:50pm

re: #457 Occasional Reader

I thought it was from what Peter said to Jesus after Jesus panned his tap-dancing act on that show: Qui Gong, Domine?

No no no, you're thinking of the groundbreaking 1973 French porn flick Honi Soit Qui Gong Mal y Pense (which translates "Honey, Who Gang-Banged My Bad Penis?").

563 KingKenrod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:03:10pm

re: #538 Josephine

Gary Goodyear wrote in the National Post on February 25, 2009:

"...Our government is committed to basic, discovery-oriented research. Compared to other nations, Canada is extremely good at supporting university-based research. We invest more in higher-education research and development than any other country in the Group of Seven as a proportion of GDP. We are second only to Sweden in the Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development and well ahead of the United States (which ranks 17th).

"Where Canada lags behind other countries, however, is in the area of commercialization -- getting innovations from the lab to the marketplace where Canadians and people around the world can benefit from our newest discoveries.

"That's why two years ago Prime Minister Stephen Harper launched our government's Science and Technology Strategy. We want to help Canadians turn their ideas into innovations, get discoveries into the marketplace and make better use of our talented researchers.

"We've put in place a strong foundation of support for science and technology over the last few years and backed up that support with significant new investments. Since 2006, our government has provided $1.3-billion to the Canada Foundation for Innovation to develop, recruit and retain the best researchers in the world...

"We recognize the importance of Genome Canada and its work, so we've provided Genome with stable, predictable, long-term funding. I look forward to continuing to work with that organization as a funding partner.

"This year, we're adding $200-million to the NRC's Industrial Research Assistance Program to help small and medium-sized businesses innovate and conduct their own research. We have also embarked on an unprecedented $2-billion program to repair, refurbish and expand research facilities at colleges and universities across Canada.

"In total, our government committed $5.1-billion to new investments for science and technology in our Economic Action Plan..."

Yes, it's important to note that Genome Canada is not a government organization, but receives multi-year grants from the government to do research. It is not the kind of project that will cease to function without a yearly grant, although not providing it new grant money will mean a lack of new initiatives.

564 yochanan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:03:13pm

re: #466 kansas

Thanks. I wonder who decided on the sequence or how passing one's hands over the points has anything to do with energy. What BS.

I THINK IT IS THE PASSING OF THE HANDS OVER THE WALLET!

565 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:03:26pm

re: #552 Bubblehead II

Galt, 1000 Quatloos to Provider 2!

566 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:03:28pm

re: #538 Josephine

Goodyear may be saying that, but the head of Genome Canada is telling a very different story.

[Link: www.globecampus.ca...]

567 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:03:45pm

re: #524 Spare O'Lake

1. Read the article - existing funding has not been cut.
2. CBC is a den of leftists intent on embarrassing the government.

I DID read the article, the entire article; Genome Canada has been submitted to the financial BOHICA treatment, courtesy of Minister Gary Goodyear.

568 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:04:06pm

re: #553 opnion

The word now is that Fannie & Freddie will be paying bonuses according to FNC.
Ok , will some Republican grow a Pair & hammer Barney Frank & Dodd?
I mean right at the hearings. Probably violates etiquette.

What you don't understand is that Fannie and Freddie are Democratic party government run institutions, so paying bonuses there is perfectly okay, even expected.

I would still love to see someone even fleetingly show some backbone and expose the hypocrisy, even if only on C-Span.

569 Occasional Reader  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:04:39pm

re: #562 Throbert McGee

No no no, you're thinking of the groundbreaking 1973 French porn flick Honi Soit Qui Gong Mal y Pense (which translates "Honey, Who Gang-Banged My Bad Penis?").

You're hoping to garter an upding with that, are you?

570 Dianna  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:05:30pm

re: #551 brookly red

Well yes and no, a lot of Chi Kung is just physical activity, streching & breating etc. It works on many levels...

If you mean that breathing properly while stretching and doing other exercises will improve energy and performance, you are quite correct.

And western science spends a lot of time and effort on getting it right, and teaching it. Without the mysticism.

Disclaimer: I do practice martial arts. I am very much aware of chi. What I have not observed is chi being transferrable.

571 DEZes  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:06:07pm

re: #569 Occasional Reader

You're hoping to garter an upding with that, are you?

Corset might just get one.

572 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:06:27pm

re: #538 Josephine

Gary Goodyear wrote in the National Post on February 25, 2009:

"...Our government is committed to basic, discovery-oriented research. Compared to other nations, Canada is extremely good at supporting university-based research. We invest more in higher-education research and development than any other country in the Group of Seven as a proportion of GDP. We are second only to Sweden in the Organization for Economic Co-Operation and Development and well ahead of the United States (which ranks 17th).

"Where Canada lags behind other countries, however, is in the area of commercialization -- getting innovations from the lab to the marketplace where Canadians and people around the world can benefit from our newest discoveries.

"That's why two years ago Prime Minister Stephen Harper launched our government's Science and Technology Strategy. We want to help Canadians turn their ideas into innovations, get discoveries into the marketplace and make better use of our talented researchers.

"We've put in place a strong foundation of support for science and technology over the last few years and backed up that support with significant new investments. Since 2006, our government has provided $1.3-billion to the Canada Foundation for Innovation to develop, recruit and retain the best researchers in the world...

"We recognize the importance of Genome Canada and its work, so we've provided Genome with stable, predictable, long-term funding. I look forward to continuing to work with that organization as a funding partner.

"This year, we're adding $200-million to the NRC's Industrial Research Assistance Program to help small and medium-sized businesses innovate and conduct their own research. We have also embarked on an unprecedented $2-billion program to repair, refurbish and expand research facilities at colleges and universities across Canada.

"In total, our government committed $5.1-billion to new investments for science and technology in our Economic Action Plan..."

Gary Goodyear lied.

573 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:07:00pm

re: #570 Dianna

If you mean that breathing properly while stretching and doing other exercises will improve energy and performance, you are quite correct.

And western science spends a lot of time and effort on getting it right, and teaching it. Without the mysticism.

Disclaimer: I do practice martial arts. I am very much aware of chi. What I have not observed is chi being transferrable.

Kind of like airline tickets then.

574 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:07:16pm

re: #572 Salamantis

Gary Goodyear lied.

Research died?

575 wrenchwench  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:07:21pm

re: #571 DEZes

Corset might just get one.

Or he could get hosed.

576 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:07:23pm
577 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:07:31pm

re: #555 Mirage

They do need a hefty nailing ...

The hypocrisy is beyond belief. Frank badgered the new AIG CEO without mercy.
He actually demanded names of those that got the bonuses. He said if the CEO did not give them up , he would use the subpoena power.
AIG offices have received death threats & the guy read one . Barney was not impressed.

578 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:07:38pm

re: #572 Salamantis

Gary Goodyear lied.

Funding died.

579 Dianna  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:08:06pm

re: #573 CyanSnowHawk

Kind of like airline tickets then.

Only in a good way, and the TSA-equivalent is nowhere to be seen.

580 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:08:37pm

re: #557 Josephine

See my #538.

See Charles' #566. Gary Goodyear lied.

581 brookly red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:08:40pm

re: #544 Iron Fist

I do the traditonal Yang & William Chen's short form. It works just fine for me.

582 LGoPs  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:08:59pm

re: #553 opnion

The word now is that Fannie & Freddie will be paying bonuses according to FNC.
Ok , will some Republican grow a Pair & hammer Barney Frank & Dodd?
I mean right at the hearings. Probably violates etiquette.

Democrats wouldn't recognize etiquette if it bit them in the ass. IIRC it was either Comrade Maxine Waters or Sheila Jackson Lee that unceremoniously and repeatedly insisted that a Republican speaker "Shut Up!". I can't remember the context but I sure as hell remember the incident.
Fuck etiquette. These bastards are the enemy and need to be called out.

583 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:09:06pm

re: #568 FurryOldGuyJeans

What you don't understand is that Fannie and Freddie are Democratic party government run institutions, so paying bonuses there is perfectly okay, even expected.

I would still love to see someone even fleetingly show some backbone and expose the hypocrisy, even if only on C-Span.

I would pay to see it, but in chambers not on a Cable program

584 MarineMomSue  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:10:11pm

re: #478 eschew_obfuscation

Some of the other soldiers from that case did sue Murtha IIRC. I wonder what happened to that case?

I believe Chessani's lawyer said that they would also consider suing murtha once Chessani was cleared. I sure hope he proceeds with this now.

Two of the 'Haditha 8', SSgt. Frank Wuterich (the one Haditha Marine who hasn’t yet been cleared) and former Marine, LCpl. Sharratt are suing murtha over his comments about Haditha. Wuterich’s suit is still pending.

FYI: I refuse to use caps for that disgrace of humanity known as murtha!

585 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:10:56pm

re: #577 opnion

The hypocrisy is beyond belief. Frank badgered the new AIG CEO without mercy.
He actually demanded names of those that got the bonuses. He said if the CEO did not give them up , he would use the subpoena power.
AIG offices have received death threats & the guy read one . Barney was not impressed.

This is so much like a replay of the media version of the McCarthy Hearings, with hyperbole of facts and figures, denunciations of enemies of America. This does not bode well for the long term survival of free market capitalism here.

586 brookly red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:11:11pm

re: #570 Dianna

If you mean that breathing properly while stretching and doing other exercises will improve energy and performance, you are quite correct.
And western science spends a lot of time and effort on getting it right, and teaching it. Without the mysticism.
Disclaimer: I do practice martial arts. I am very much aware of chi. What I have not observed is chi being transferrable.

Chi can be transfered to another persons nose quite well thank you. :)

587 doppelganglander  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:11:20pm

re: #529 filetandrelease

Bi Polar?

Not officially.

588 Kragar  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:11:35pm

re: #570 Dianna

If you mean that breathing properly while stretching and doing other exercises will improve energy and performance, you are quite correct.

And western science spends a lot of time and effort on getting it right, and teaching it. Without the mysticism.

Disclaimer: I do practice martial arts. I am very much aware of chi. What I have not observed is chi being transferrable.

I've seen a transfer of chi. I'll be sitting quietly when the kids start fighting, I'll go and transfer some chi to their backsides, then they'll be sitting quietly too.

589 JustAHouseWife  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:12:06pm

re: #477 Salamantis

When you are living in this day and age where a heck of a lot of people's agenda is to eliminate God out of many many parts of society, MAYBE you get on the offensive and you can't explain yourself the way you should. He isn't a scientist it seems. Canada has the left/right battle going on politically as well. I am not saying that he's right either. But as a mom, and a wife of a disabled vet who is now a scientist, it looks like a witch hunt to me. We don't care if this is discussed in school either. I remember discussing it. I survived. Our kids have their heads on straight and I don't worry about other people's kids that way, never have.

And I say again, Genome research is complicated. I would need specifics to care if Canada's Genome research were to continue or not- if I were a Canadian that is.

I wish you all would worry more about CO2 being deemed a pollutant! I am tired of my kids being SCARED of the future based on really bad fudged data.

590 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:12:16pm

re: #588 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

I've seen a transfer of chi. I'll be sitting quietly when the kids start fighting, I'll go and transfer some chi to their backsides, then they'll be sitting quietly too.

If not a little uncomfortably.

591 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:12:16pm

re: #583 opnion

I would pay to see it, but in chambers not on a Cable program

Goes to show how much I watch C-Span.

/ hardly at all, really, since 2006 mid-terms.

592 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:12:27pm

re: #582 LGoPs

Democrats wouldn't recognize etiquette if it bit them in the ass. IIRC it was either Comrade Maxine Waters or Sheila Jackson Lee that unceremoniously and repeatedly insisted that a Republican speaker "Shut Up!". I can't remember the context but I sure as hell remember the incident.
Fuck etiquette. These bastards are the enemy and need to be called out.


Do you recall the House Impeachment Committee proceedings on Clinton?
Maxine Waters, Sheila Jackson Lee & others whooped & hollered , shouting down the Republicans. They were an embarassing, unruly mob.

593 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:13:27pm
594 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:13:30pm

re: #566 Charles

Thanks.

It looks as if they're still getting funding but no new money has been granted to them this year. I wonder if it anything to do with the current economic situation. I would support increased funding for them.

595 yochanan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:13:54pm

I have 3 middle sized cities that i really like to visit as a tourist, san fran, quebec city, & boston.

can't say i would want to live in any of them with the possible exception of boston and given the politics of masshole i don't think i would want to live there either.

596 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:14:03pm

re: #577 opnion

The hypocrisy is beyond belief. Frank badgered the new AIG CEO without mercy.
He actually demanded names of those that got the bonuses. He said if the CEO did not give them up , he would use the subpoena power.
AIG offices have received death threats & the guy read one . Barney was not impressed.

And the new CEO is one installed by Congress, as part of the TARP payouts! Barney is just making populist political hay, fucking schmuck.

597 Kragar  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:14:19pm

re: #590 CyanSnowHawk

If not a little uncomfortably.

They didn't say anything (especially if they know whats good for them)

598 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:14:30pm

re: #572 Salamantis

Gary Goodyear lied.

That was written on February 25th. What is the date of the article on which you base your assertion that he lied?

599 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:14:40pm

re: #572 Salamantis

Gary Goodyear lied.

Lying is a sin. But somehow lying to defend God is okay. Never could figure that one out.

600 kansas  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:15:09pm

I'm going to transfer my chi to the car and go to the liquor store and buy Corona, and then to a BBQ place and get ribs, and then transfer the Corona and ribs to my Yin Song Chow, or happy place in a language I just made up. Kind of like acupuncture and Chi Gong. So long for now.

601 Dianna  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:15:23pm

re: #586 brookly red

Chi can be transfered to another persons nose quite well thank you. :)

*Snicker!*

True.

Excuse my giggling.

602 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:15:26pm

re: #585 FurryOldGuyJeans

This is so much like a replay of the media version of the McCarthy Hearings, with hyperbole of facts and figures, denunciations of enemies of America. This does not bode well for the long term survival of free market capitalism here.

That is an outstanding analogy, because it is like the McCarthy hearings.
I don't like these bonuses, but they are legal , thank's to Chris Dodd.
These are contracts.
Isn't it just a little ironic that Frank want's to out people?

603 jcm  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:15:52pm

re: #593 buzzsawmonkey

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, fudge data.

It just looks like fudge data, it really made out of something entirely different.

604 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:16:07pm

I want the good old days, when Creationist threads brought out more than two lame-ass trolls.

I am not amused. ///

605 yochanan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:16:07pm

Bi Polar an ice bear that goes both ways?

606 LGoPs  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:16:09pm

re: #592 opnion

Do you recall the House Impeachment Committee proceedings on Clinton?
Maxine Waters, Sheila Jackson Lee & others whooped & hollered , shouting down the Republicans. They were an embarassing, unruly mob.

Turns my stomach. But what truly causes me despair is not the behavior of low-lifes like them. It is the fact that so many of my fellow citizens standards are so low that they find their behavior acceptable and are happy to keep them and their ilk in power.

607 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:16:39pm

re: #580 Salamantis

See Charles' #566. Gary Goodyear lied.

From that article:

"Government officials dispute that they have abandoned the independent funding agency. The government's view is that it gave Genome Canada $100-million in 2007 and $140-million in 2008. Minister of Science and Technology Gary Goodyear insisted in Question Period yesterday that both of those sums were to be rolled out over five years and that the money should last the organization until 2013."

608 callahan23  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:16:43pm

re: #589 JustAHouseWife

.......I wish you all would worry more about CO2 being deemed a pollutant! I am tired of my kids being SCARED of the future based on really bad fudged data.

Wipple - Scrumptious Fudgemallow Delight

609 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:17:26pm

re: #596 FurryOldGuyJeans

And the new CEO is one installed by Congress, as part of the TARP payouts! Barney is just making populist political hay, fucking schmuck.

Another good point, it's all to deflect attention from himself.

610 Kragar  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:17:41pm

Oh boy, Taco Bell for lunch. I feel sorry for my office mates. The poor bastards.

611 Dianna  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:18:04pm

re: #610 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh boy, Taco Bell for lunch. I feel sorry for my office mates. The poor bastards.

Such cruelty!

612 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:18:56pm
Genome Canada has entered into a management agreement
with Hodran Consultants Inc., which, as at March 31, 2008,
provided for the services of Dr. Martin Godbout as President
and Chief Executive Officer. Compensation for these services
fell within the range of $348,213 to $417,855.

[Link: www.genomecanada.ca...]

613 Aviator  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:18:56pm

re: #610 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh boy, Taco Bell for lunch. I feel sorry for my office mates. The poor bastards.

Do you carpool?

614 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:18:58pm

re: #606 LGoPs

Turns my stomach. But what truly causes me despair is not the behavior of low-lifes like them. It is the fact that so many of my fellow citizens standards are so low that they find their behavior acceptable and are happy to keep them and their ilk in power.

Interestingly enough, the worse that the Democrats acted, the more popular Clinton became.

615 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:19:07pm

re: #589 JustAHouseWife

When you are living in this day and age where a heck of a lot of people's agenda is to eliminate God out of many many parts of society, MAYBE you get on the offensive and you can't explain yourself the way you should. He isn't a scientist it seems. Canada has the left/right battle going on politically as well. I am not saying that he's right either. But as a mom, and a wife of a disabled vet who is now a scientist, it looks like a witch hunt to me. We don't care if this is discussed in school either. I remember discussing it. I survived. Our kids have their heads on straight and I don't worry about other people's kids that way, never have.

And I say again, Genome research is complicated. I would need specifics to care if Canada's Genome research were to continue or not- if I were a Canadian that is.

I wish you all would worry more about CO2 being deemed a pollutant! I am tired of my kids being SCARED of the future based on really bad fudged data.

First of all, a nonscientist has no business being a countries science minister, any more than a noneconomist has any business being their economic minister. Read the posted articles and you will read about much critical rsearch being done in Genome Canada, including research related to cancer and to crop yield optimization.

Religious dogma has no place in public high school science class. And AGW has bupkis to do with evolutionary theory.

616 DEZes  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:19:23pm

re: #610 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh boy, Taco Bell for lunch. I feel sorry for my office mates. The poor bastards.

Clothespins, get your Clothespins, just one dollar.

617 Kragar  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:19:29pm

re: #611 Dianna

Such cruelty!

SBD as well, I'll be back in a minute, gonna take a walk and seed the area, make it harder to pin down

618 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:19:43pm

re: #599 HelloDare

Lying is a sin. But somehow lying to defend God is okay. Never could figure that one out.

You're making a real leap there, from Sal accusing Gary Goodyear of lying to Mr. Goodyear lying for God.

619 callahan23  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:20:18pm

re: #610 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh boy, Taco Bell for lunch. I feel sorry for my office mates. The poor bastards.

Just, you be easy on those beans!

620 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:20:46pm
621 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:20:55pm

re: #610 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh boy, Taco Bell for lunch. I feel sorry for my office mates. The poor bastards.

You providing the biologic component of an impending NBC attack?

/ NBC = USNavySpeak for Nuclear/Biologic/Chemical attack.

622 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:21:03pm

re: #594 Josephine

Thanks.

It looks as if they're still getting funding but no new money has been granted to them this year. I wonder if it anything to do with the current economic situation. I would support increased funding for them.

You reckon it might have just a little bit to do with the Science Minister's evolutionary ignorance and religious convictions?

623 rebnatan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:21:38pm

Are people who believe in God banned from government now?

624 Basho  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:21:54pm

Nuts... everyone beat me to the chiropractor insults. I hate coming in late to these threads =(

625 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:22:15pm

re: #614 opnion

Interestingly enough, the worse that the Democrats acted, the more popular Clinton became.

Because the furor the Dems created deflected all the attention from the criminal acts Clinton perpetrated and focused it on the man's sexual antics.

626 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:22:49pm

re: #623 rebnatan

Are people who believe in God banned from government now?

Do you frequently ask stupid questions?

627 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:23:02pm

re: #598 Josephine

That was written on February 25th. What is the date of the article on which you base your assertion that he lied?

Jan. 30th:

[Link: www.globecampus.ca...]

Gary Goodyear's bald and unsupported assertion does nothing to refute it.

628 Kragar  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:23:05pm

re: #619 callahan23

Just, you be easy on those beans!

It was only 3 bean burritos, no onions

629 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:24:09pm

re: #623 rebnatan

Are people who believe in God banned from government now?

Three troll-buttock meltdowns on the menu tonight. *buurrrp*

630 Catttt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:24:13pm

All this chi kung tai talk is making me want to get out one of my Bruce Lee movies. I have them all on tape - need to get them on DVD.

631 Kragar  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:24:59pm

re: #621 FurryOldGuyJeans

You providing the biologic component of an impending NBC attack?

/ NBC = USNavySpeak for Nuclear/Biologic/Chemical attack.

Was certified for NBC site reaction and decontamination when I was in the Marines. Volunteered for it the day after the gas bombing in Tokyo when I was stationed in Japan.

632 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:25:03pm

re: #622 Salamantis

You reckon it might have just a little bit to do with the Science Minister's evolutionary ignorance and religious convictions?

You seem a bit exorcised.

633 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:25:04pm

re: #618 Josephine

You're making a real leap there, from Sal accusing Gary Goodyear of lying to Mr. Goodyear lying for God.

Are you saying that Goodyear didn't lie? Or that Goodyear didn't lie for God?

634 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:25:08pm

re: #607 Josephine

From that article:

"Government officials dispute that they have abandoned the independent funding agency. The government's view is that it gave Genome Canada $100-million in 2007 and $140-million in 2008. Minister of Science and Technology Gary Goodyear insisted in Question Period yesterday that both of those sums were to be rolled out over five years and that the money should last the organization until 2013."

Politicians have been known to occasionally spin the truth and even lie to make themselves look better, especially when caught doing something they shouldn't.

635 JustAHouseWife  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:25:53pm

re: #593 buzzsawmonkey

:0)

re: #615 Salamantis
Sheesh, I think President Bush was just about the only President to put a scientist in as head of the EPA. Correct me if I am wrong. Now what do we have? Do you care?

636 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:25:54pm
637 NonNativeTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:25:55pm

re: #625 FurryOldGuyJeans

Because the furor the Dems created deflected all the attention from the criminal acts Clinton perpetrated and focused it on the man's sexual antics.

They should have focused on the sexual antics being criminal,
ie: sexual harassment

638 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:26:02pm

re: #634 Charles

Politicians have been known to occasionally spin the truth and even lie to make themselves look better, especially when caught doing something they shouldn't.

Noooo! Say it ain't so, Joe!

639 Kragar  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:26:44pm

re: #630 Catttt

All this chi kung tai talk is making me want to get out one of my Bruce Lee movies. I have them all on tape - need to get them on DVD.

You just reminded me of the fight scene I wanted to watch.

640 KingKenrod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:27:05pm

re: #634 Charles

Politicians have been known to occasionally spin the truth and even lie to make themselves look better, especially when caught doing something they shouldn't.

Some people might argue that's all they do.

641 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:27:25pm

re: #607 Josephine

From that article:

"Government officials dispute that they have abandoned the independent funding agency. The government's view is that it gave Genome Canada $100-million in 2007 and $140-million in 2008. Minister of Science and Technology Gary Goodyear insisted in Question Period yesterday that both of those sums were to be rolled out over five years and that the money should last the organization until 2013."

Also from that article:

The government has invested in buildings and training bright people, he said, but "without operating money what are they going to do?"

If the funding taps don't flow, he said, "We could start losing the best and the brightest, they'll go do something else — or they may just go somewhere else."

At the University of Toronto, senior scientist Corey Nislow and his wife Guri Giaever, who holds the Canada Research Chair in chemical genetics, wonder whether the apparent reluctance to provide strong research funding in Canada will drive them back to the United States.

In 2006, the couple left their California home and Stanford University lab for the U of T, frustrated by the lack of funding and support for research in the United States at the time. Now they fear the same scenario is playing out in their new home.

"Canada is not even keeping pace. It seems at first everyone thought that this (lack of funding to Genome Canada) must be a typo, but no, it seems like very bad news."

Dr. Nislow said he and his wife have started to talk about whether they will return to the States. "After 21/2 years here we are in the sweet spot of our research … and the last thing I want to do is think about moving. But we have to be realistic.

Michael Hayden, a world-renowned geneticist at the University of British Columbia and the scientist dubbed "researcher of the year" by the CIHR, said the lack of new research funding here is "a missed opportunity for Canada."

"Our future depends on innovation and knowledge creation," he said. "Relatively small measures, including significantly increasing the budgets of our national granting councils and Genome Canada, together with moves to stimulate investment, such as tax incentives, could transform new discoveries into products and services — which would create sustainable knowledge-based jobs for the future.

"The USA , the UK and EU are already on this path and we will need an urgent plan not evident in this budget to remain competitive."

Liberal MP Marc Garneau said the government knows "that small amount of money [pledged in previous years] is already fully committed and has been for some time. Genome Canada's world-leading research programs are in jeopardy and thousands of jobs will be lost if the Conservatives fail to fund them."

"[The government's money] doesn't keep pace with future funding," Dr. Godbout said. "We cannot even ask someone to even start writing a grant proposal if we don't have the money in the bank."

One project now in doubt, for example, is the so-called Regulome Consortium, a massive international effort to map the genetic circuitry of stem cells. Canada was to lead the $84-million venture, which involves 64 investigators in 12 countries and is considered crucial to programming stem cells for future treatments.

"I'm hoping there will be an outcry from the Canadian public about the lack of new research funds.

"It shows a lack of understanding in the value of research."

642 brookly red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:27:39pm

re: #601 Dianna

*Snicker!*

True.

Excuse my giggling.

You are mean. I like that. No belief required.

643 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:29:04pm

re: #623 rebnatan

Are people who believe in God banned from government now?

Nope, but evolutionary illiterates shouldn't be appointed Science Ministers of first-world countries.

644 Gus  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:29:04pm

So far we have a chiropracter in Canada. A dentist in Texas and s student of interior design in Turkey.

All three fail to have the qualifications in both profession or education.

645 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:29:16pm

re: #625 FurryOldGuyJeans

Because the furor the Dems created deflected all the attention from the criminal acts Clinton perpetrated and focused it on the man's sexual antics.

But Clintons trasgressions were all out there.
I got tired of hearing, "It's just about sex." Wrong it was about perjury in a sexual harassment trial.
The loony Lefist Femenists lost all of their credibility in my opinion.
I recall very well Patricia Ireland of NOW admitting that the Juanita Broderick rape allegation was credible, but she dismissed it as unimportant because the Statute of Limitations had run.

646 NonNativeTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:29:24pm

re: #641 Salamantis

What researcher doesn't complain about lack of funds?

647 callahan23  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:29:28pm

re: #628 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

It was only 3 bean burritos, no onions

Fair enuff, but then on second thought was there beef in the bean burritos? And how about the spiciness?
It's not only that nefarious onion-bean mixture that creates those gas bombs. Other mixtures also have their effect.

648 LGoPs  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:29:42pm

re: #614 opnion

Interestingly enough, the worse that the Democrats acted, the more popular Clinton became.

I know. It's depressing. But now that I think of it, it also shows the brilliance and the genius of the Founding Fathers for giving us a Representative Republic to protect us from the democratic Mob that this phenomenon represents. The mob is dangerous. It is mindless and it can be whipped up as easily in today's modern era by the media as it could in ancient times by tyrants. Jeez Looeez, I'm starting to sound like some ancient Roman Patrician.........which I'm freaking not.

649 debutaunt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:29:45pm

re: #623 rebnatan

Are people who believe in God banned from government now?

Certainly, and they aren't allowed to buy Wheaties.

650 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:30:51pm

re: #623 rebnatan

Are people who believe in God banned from government now?

Nobody here is saying that and you know it. How about having an honest debate.

651 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:30:51pm
652 Basho  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:30:58pm

re: #644 Gus 802

A chiropracter in Canada. A dentist in Texas and a student of interior design in Turkey.

By their powers combined...

(not clever enough to come up with a punchline...)

653 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:31:20pm

re: #623 rebnatan

We all went to a good Creationist thread, and all we got were three lame-ass trolls.

654 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:31:22pm

re: #635 JustAHouseWife

:0)

re: #615 Salamantis
Sheesh, I think President Bush was just about the only President to put a scientist in as head of the EPA. Correct me if I am wrong. Now what do we have? Do you care?

Yep, I care. Just like I care about evolutionry illiterates being appointed heads of government Science ministries.

655 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:31:37pm

re: #623 rebnatan

Are people who believe in God banned from government now?

Karma: -4

rebnatan

(Logged in)
Registered since: Nov 8, 2004 at 9:28 am
No. of comments posted: 37
No. of links posted: 13

Oh Goody. Another one has crawled out from under the bridge.

But to answer your question, no. Nor has it been, to the best of my knowledge, even suggested by regular posters here. Just by trolls trying to stir up sh*t.

656 freetoken  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:32:02pm

re: #644 Gus 802

So... a chiropractor, a dentist, and a student of interior design walk into a bar.....

657 brookly red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:32:13pm

re: #610 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh boy, Taco Bell for lunch. I feel sorry for my office mates. The poor bastards.

White Castel. pay back is a bitch.

658 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:32:17pm

re: #622 Salamantis

You reckon it might have just a little bit to do with the Science Minister's evolutionary ignorance and religious convictions?

First, he has said that he believes in evolution.

Second, you would have to prove that his religious convictions stopped him from performing his job as mandated by the Government of Canada.

Third, you seem to be assuming that he is a one-man office and that no one else is involved in making these decisions.

The government has given millions of dollars to the Genome Project and expects that money to last a while. The government has a huge budget deficit right now. It doesn't have limitless funds to hand out. The Genome Project wanted new money and didn't get it, so it is unhappy. It will probably get more money in the future.

659 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:32:45pm

re: #646 NonNativeTexan

What researcher doesn't complain about lack of funds?

In this case, based upon the nonfunding of and resultant curtailment of ANY new genome research, the complaints are eminently justified.

660 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:32:59pm

re: #634 Charles

Politicians have been known to occasionally spin the truth and even lie to make themselves look better, especially when caught doing something they shouldn't.

You just made a statement that is so applicable to the Dem controlled Congress and their (mis)handling of the financial crisis.

661 callahan23  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:33:03pm

re: #644 Gus 802

So far we have a chiropracter in Canada. A dentist in Texas and s student of interior design in Turkey.

All three fail to have the qualifications in both profession or education.

If I could I would grant you 10 up-dings for that statement. Excellent.

662 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:33:16pm

re: #648 LGoPs

I know. It's depressing. But now that I think of it, it also shows the brilliance and the genius of the Founding Fathers for giving us a Representative Republic to protect us from the democratic Mob that this phenomenon represents. The mob is dangerous. It is mindless and it can be whipped up as easily in today's modern era by the media as it could in ancient times by tyrants. Jeez Looeez, I'm starting to sound like some ancient Roman Patrician.........which I'm freaking not.

Don't cross the Rubicon. If you do though skip work the day that your wife tells you to. You know, cause..............

663 albusteve  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:33:39pm

re: #610 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Oh boy, Taco Bell for lunch. I feel sorry for my office mates. The poor bastards.

any taco is a good taco

664 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:33:52pm

re: #634 Charles

Politicians have been known to occasionally spin the truth and even lie to make themselves look better, especially when caught doing something they shouldn't.

Our Conservative PM Stephen Harper has more character in his baby finger than Obama has in his whole body, and he chose Goodyear. Goodyear certainly blew the interview, but he corrected himself in a timely fashion and I see nothing to indicate that he is some kind of American-style religious zealot.
The program cuts are unfortunate but were moderate and certainly necessary in order to reduce program spending to cope with the recession.

665 Catttt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:33:54pm

re: #627 Salamantis

Jan. 30th:

[Link: www.globecampus.ca...]

Gary Goodyear's bald and unsupported assertion does nothing to refute it.

There is already funding for Genome Canada's current projects that had received a full commitment for funding in 2007 and 2008. Ongoing projects from those years already have funding, in other words.

There is no government funding for 2009 for Genome Canada, so no new projects begun this year would get any funding from the government. This is what Genome Canada is talking about when they say they were not funded for this year.

There IS funding totaling $240 million that covers 2010 through 2013. This is what Dr. Goodyear is talking about.

666 Gus  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:34:01pm

re: #656 freetoken

So... a chiropractor, a dentist, and a student of interior design walk into a bar.....

I know, it's like that isn't it? I also started to think: "Butcher, baker, beggar, thief, doctor, lawyer, tribal chief. Which one are you?"

667 DEZes  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:34:49pm

re: #656 freetoken

So... a chiropractor, a dentist, and a student of interior design walk into a bar.....


The Politician ducked.

668 Dianna  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:35:27pm

Heading for home.

I will not be in tomorrow until after (gulp!) the Trustees' meeting, which I am...(gulp!) attending and minuting.

To say nothing of being put on the spot to explain the idiocies of grantees and the financial markets.

Wish me luck. Think soothing thoughts from about 10:00 a.m. tomorrow. Most of all, don't call my office!

669 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:35:44pm

re: #634 Charles

Politicians have been known to occasionally spin the truth and even lie to make themselves look better, especially when caught doing something they shouldn't.

If this is proven about Gary Goodyear, then we'll have proof. For now, it is an unproven accusation.

At this point, I'm not going to assume that the Genome folks didn't get additional money because Goodyear is a Christian.

670 Gus  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:35:51pm

re: #661 callahan23

If I could I would grant you 10 up-dings for that statement. Excellent.

Thank you.

671 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:36:35pm

re: #658 Josephine

First, he has said that he believes in evolution.

Second, you would have to prove that his religious convictions stopped him from performing his job as mandated by the Government of Canada.

Third, you seem to be assuming that he is a one-man office and that no one else is involved in making these decisions.

The government has given millions of dollars to the Genome Project and expects that money to last a while. The government has a huge budget deficit right now. It doesn't have limitless funds to hand out. The Genome Project wanted new money and didn't get it, so it is unhappy. It will probably get more money in the future.

He went into political CYA mode, after his previous remarks invoking an argument from ignorance and deeming a question about evolution to be religious ignited a firestorm. Since his zeroing of funding seems to have been selectively directed at bioscience research, the implication is easily drawn. What the already allocated money will NOT allow to happen is the pursuit of needed and promising new genome research. And he HAS to hold considerable sway over the budgetary allocations of a ministry that he heads.

672 Aye Pod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:37:15pm

Never trust a chiropractor.

673 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:37:18pm

re: #669 Josephine

If this is proven about Gary Goodyear, then we'll have proof. For now, it is an unproven accusation.

At this point, I'm not going to assume that the Genome folks didn't get additional money because Goodyear is a Christian.

And neither am I.

I think it's a good possibility, though, that the funding for new projects was cut because of Goodyear's creationist views.

Not his Christianity.

674 LGoPs  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:37:51pm

re: #662 opnion

Don't cross the Rubicon. If you do though skip work the day that your wife tells you to. You know, cause..............

I'm good for another year since the ides has passed........
:)

675 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:37:56pm

re: #668 Dianna

Heading for home.

I will not be in tomorrow until after (gulp!) the Trustees' meeting, which I am...(gulp!) attending and minuting.

To say nothing of being put on the spot to explain the idiocies of grantees and the financial markets.

Wish me luck. Think soothing thoughts from about 10:00 a.m. tomorrow. Most of all, don't call my office!

Okay. Give me your office phone so I can't call it:)

676 NonNativeTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:38:19pm

re: #659 Salamantis

I also read the part about the funding lasting at least until 2013.
The money is to be paid over a five year period.

677 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:38:23pm

re: #671 Salamantis

I'm not so convinced but I will keep reading about the subject.

678 Zimriel  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:38:45pm

re: #658 Josephine

First, he has said that he believes in evolution.

Oh no, he di'n't! Try reading his comment; he defined "evolution" as an individual's attempt to "evolve to its environment"; not as change over tens of millions of years.

Second, you would have to prove that his religious convictions stopped him from performing his job as mandated by the Government of Canada.

In a court of law, sure. But conflict-of-interest law takes precedence for government positions.

Third, you seem to be assuming that he is a one-man office and that no one else is involved in making these decisions.

Irrelevant. He's the guy in a leadership position. He's Harper's public face on his science policy.

You need to do a better job of defending your position.

679 WhiteRasta  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:38:45pm

Quite frankly, I don't care what his beliefs are as long as he is not a member of the stinking Liberal party.

Having said that, I expect him to do his job in a proper manner and not bring up teaching witchcraft in the classroom.

680 Basho  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:39:45pm

re: #672 Jimmah

Never trust a chiropractor.

Forget it, Jimmah. It's Chiro-town.

681 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:40:06pm

OT - OT - OT

I haven't seen Killgore on this thread, but I have been told by him to remind him every week... LOST is on tonight, a new episode after the mid season break.

Tonight's episode...

"Namaste (New, TV14) When old friends drop in unannounced, Sawyer must perpetuate his lie to protect them."

682 Throbert McGee  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:40:13pm

re: #608 callahan23

based on really bad fudged data.

Wipple - Scrumptious Fudgemallow Delight

Word-origin Trivia: The name of the candy "fudge" comes from the slang verb "to fudge" (meaning either "to screw up" or "to try to make the best out of something already screwed up") -- and not the other way around, as many people assume.

The candy got its name when a 19th-century American confectioner got distracted while boiling a batch of syrup for caramels, so that they turned out with a very un-caramel-y texture. But since the "ruined" candies still tasted quite good, he decided to try selling them at a discount with the label "Fudged Caramels" -- and they were a surprise hit with customers.

683 Catttt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:40:37pm

The government either screwed up and missed 2009 or left it out on purpose. If they left it out by accident, this shows why people are saying they don't have a comprehensive plan. If they did it on purpose, it's debatable as to why and silly that they seem to want to obfuscate it.

Either way, it's stupid to just skip a year for funding a research project.

684 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:40:49pm

re: #669 Josephine

The man's religion is not being questioned; what is being questioned is the man's scientific competency that is directly affected due to his possible support of Creationism.

685 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:40:51pm

re: #664 Spare O'Lake

Our Conservative PM Stephen Harper has more character in his baby finger than Obama has in his whole body, and he chose Goodyear. Goodyear certainly blew the interview, but he corrected himself in a timely fashion and I see nothing to indicate that he is some kind of American-style religious zealot.
The program cuts are unfortunate but were moderate and certainly necessary in order to reduce program spending to cope with the recession.

I view the zeroing out of the entire budget for new genome research to be extremist, not moderate. Even Dubya allowed federal funding research to proceed in certain established embryonic stem cell lines.

686 Gus  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:41:29pm

re: #680 Basho

Forget it, Jimmah. It's Chiro-town.

Any word from the osteopaths and their professional opinion on evolution>

687 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:41:33pm

re: #673 Charles

And neither am I.

I think it's a good possibility, though, that the funding for new projects was cut because of Goodyear's creationist views.

Not his Christianity.

I understand the distinction you are making and did not intend to confuse the two or put words in your mouth. (Oh great Lao Stinky.)

He has since said that he believes in evolution. If true, that would make him a Christian who accepts evolution as part of the workings of God.

688 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:42:14pm

Anybody else her think that Letterman is a flaming A Hole?
I quit watching him years ago. He is mean spirited & not funny.
I did catch a clip of his Monday Night monolouge on FNC last night.
He informed his audience that Palin's daughter & the boy who "knocked her up" are not getting married. The reason, the boy is not ready just like Palin wasn't ready to be VP.
Oh narf, narf. He uses these kids for his snarky humor. A little ironic , since he has an eight year old son & did not marry the mother.
Hey, his business, but he should leave these kids alone.

689 callahan23  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:42:40pm

re: #682 Throbert McGee

Word-origin Trivia: The name of the candy "fudge" comes from the slang verb "to fudge" (meaning either "to screw up" or "to try to make the best out of something already screwed up") -- and not the other way around, as many people assume.

The candy got its name when a 19th-century American confectioner got distracted while boiling a batch of syrup for caramels, so that they turned out with a very un-caramel-y texture. But since the "ruined" candies still tasted quite good, he decided to try selling them at a discount with the label "Fudged Caramels" -- and they were a surprise hit with customers.

Now, that's some interesting trivia.

690 Spare O'Lake  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:42:50pm

Gotta run now, but I just wanted to thank you all for taking an interest in Canadian politics.
BTW, did you all notice that the CEO of Genome Canada makes approx. $400K/yr., was appointed by the Liberal Party, comes from Quebec, and has a bone to pick with the Conservative government?

691 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:43:05pm

re: #676 NonNativeTexan

I also read the part about the funding lasting at least until 2013.
The money is to be paid over a five year period.

But NO funding has been approved for new research.

692 NonNativeTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:43:14pm

re: #688 opnion

Yep, quit watching him because of that, and he isn't very funny.

693 Catttt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:43:30pm

re: #688 opnion

Anybody else her think that Letterman is a flaming A Hole?

Who? /

694 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:43:30pm

re: #678 Zimriel

You need to do a better job of defending your position.

I'm still formulating my position. I've given links to other articles that present more information.

695 Catttt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:44:01pm

Must be something up in the hood - a helicopter is circling us.

696 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:44:10pm

re: #674 LGoPs

I'm good for another year since the ides has passed........
:)

True

697 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:44:32pm

re: #687 Josephine

I understand the distinction you are making and did not intend to confuse the two or put words in your mouth. (Oh great Lao Stinky.)

He has since said that he believes in evolution. If true, that would make him a Christian who accepts evolution as part of the workings of God.

That interpretation doesn't jive with his first answer, invoking the argument from ignorance and deeming a question about his acceptance of evolution to be a religious rather than a scientific question.

698 debutaunt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:44:56pm

re: #672 Jimmah

What the heck kind of trouble were you stiring up at the White House today?

699 NonNativeTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:45:12pm

re: #691 Salamantis


Come on, Sal, you're splitting hairs. So they are just going to do
OLD research for 5 years?

700 snowcrash  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:45:13pm

Dodd is admitting to "changing the language" in the stimulus bill under pressure from the Treasury Dept. This is what led to protecting bonuses that AIG recieved. source FOX tv

701 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:45:15pm

re: #692 NonNativeTexan

re: #693 Catttt
Consensus!

702 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:45:16pm

OT - The future of socialized health care in America... brought to you by the NHS of England...

Britain apologises for 'Third World' hospital...

"Between 400 and 1,200 more people died than would have been expected in a three-year period at the National Health Service (NHS) hospital, according to an investigation by the Healthcare Commission watchdog."

""What we saw in those eight weeks will haunt us for the rest of our lives," said the 47-year-old. "We saw patients drinking out of flower vases they were so thirsty."

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

703 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:45:31pm
704 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:45:34pm

re: #633 HelloDare

Are you saying that Goodyear didn't lie? Or that Goodyear didn't lie for God?

I'm saying you're making a big leap there.

705 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:45:57pm

re: #682 Throbert McGee

Sounds like the urban legend of how hard pretzels were first created.

706 Kragar  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:46:15pm

re: #700 snowcrash

Dodd is admitting to "changing the language" in the stimulus bill under pressure from the Treasury Dept. This is what led to protecting bonuses that AIG recieved. source FOX tv

Hot Potato! Hot Potato! Keep it moving! Hot Potato!

707 WhiteRasta  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:46:21pm

re: #688 opnion

Is that senile boob still on TV?

708 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:48:06pm

re: #706 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Hot Potato! Hot Potato! Keep it moving! Hot Potato!

No. Dodd is toast.

709 doppelganglander  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:48:07pm

re: #682 Throbert McGee

That reminds me, I have an amazing fudge truffle from a Brazilian bakery with my name on it in my kitchen right now. But I was raised to eat dinner before dessert. So I guess I'd better eat dinner.

710 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:48:13pm

re: #699 NonNativeTexan

Come on, Sal, you're splitting hairs. So they are just going to do
OLD research for 5 years?

Yep. They are going to continue to pursue already-begun projects, but are fiscally prevented from embarking on new ones. That hair is a bright line a mile wide.

711 NonNativeTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:48:17pm

re: #706 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Dodd is a little kid, He made me do it!

712 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:48:22pm

re: #703 buzzsawmonkey

Letterman has been unwatchable for years. Little-known fact: he needs a second dressing room simply to store his self-regard.

Craig Ferguson, who comes on after him in New York, is much funnier. You get the impression that he is actually enjoying himself and that he likes his audience, both of which Letterman does not.

Yeah, as I recall Letterman acts so bored just being there.
I also remember he was not usually prepared to interview his guests.

713 DEZes  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:48:26pm

re: #688 opnion
I have to say I have never found him even remotely amusing, He is just another jerk on the air waves.

714 WhiteRasta  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:48:34pm

re: #702 Walter L. Newton

State supplied medical care: We can all be neglected, equally.
(Except the ruling classes.)

715 debutaunt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:48:48pm

re: #675 Walter L. Newton

Okay. Give me your office phone so I can't call it:)

If you have her Fax number, we can send stuff to get it ringing, too.

716 LGoPs  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:49:00pm

re: #702 Walter L. Newton

OT - The future of socialized health care in America... brought to you by the NHS of England...

Britain apologises for 'Third World' hospital...

"Between 400 and 1,200 more people died than would have been expected in a three-year period at the National Health Service (NHS) hospital, according to an investigation by the Healthcare Commission watchdog."

""What we saw in those eight weeks will haunt us for the rest of our lives," said the 47-year-old. "We saw patients drinking out of flower vases they were so thirsty."

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

I thought it was interesting to hear that Natasha Richardson's family has her in a New York hospital even though she had her skiing accident in Canada. Sorry to here about her accident but think that their choice is a ringing endorsement of our current medical system.

717 Aviator  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:49:13pm

re: #700 snowcrash

Dodd is admitting to "changing the language" in the stimulus bill under pressure from the Treasury Dept. This is what led to protecting bonuses that AIG recieved. source FOX tv

Looks more and more like Turbo Tax Timmy is being set up as a fall guy.

718 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:49:17pm

re: #697 Salamantis

That interpretation doesn't jive with his first answer, invoking the argument from ignorance and deeming a question about his acceptance of evolution to be a religious rather than a scientific question.

I'd have to hear or see a recording of both interviews so I could decide for myself the context in which the statements were made.

719 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:50:11pm

re: #710 Salamantis

Yep. They are going to continue to pursue already-begun projects, but are fiscally prevented from embarking on new ones. That hair is a bright line a mile wide.

Come to Canada and increase our tax base, please.

720 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:50:39pm

re: #688 opnion

Anybody else her think that Letterman is a flaming A Hole?
I quit watching him years ago. He is mean spirited & not funny.
I did catch a clip of his Monday Night monolouge on FNC last night.
He informed his audience that Palin's daughter & the boy who "knocked her up" are not getting married. The reason, the boy is not ready just like Palin wasn't ready to be VP.
Oh narf, narf. He uses these kids for his snarky humor. A little ironic , since he has an eight year old son & did not marry the mother.
Hey, his business, but he should leave these kids alone.

Letterman is pathetic..I have never thought him in the least funny...
Everytime I hear somebody bragging about how he went to high school 20 minutes from here..I think about Al Pacino at the final scene of the scent of a woman..
If I had a flamethrower..I'd burn this place to the ground!
/top 10 of all scenes in movies for me...
//right behind the ending of Any Given Sunday where he is giving the football speech about..We take every inch! Those inches belong to me!
I almost tackled the TV..yelling hell ya!

721 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:50:48pm

re: #708 HelloDare

No. Dodd is toast.

I'll believe that when he is slathered in butter and served up to the American people as some members of Congress have tried to do to AIG's CEO. Who, by the way, was appointed to that position by some of the same flaming assholes who are now trying to incite the American people into lynching.

722 JustAHouseWife  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:50:50pm

re: #643 Salamantis

I think you just like being mad.
My Canadian friend, who is in a wheel chair BTW, complains about his government wasting money all the time. Without specifics about this Canadian research being done, (which is a government funded only thing right?) I wouldn't get emotional about it, and I certainly wouldn't blame it on a man who believes in God, and is pressed by the press to say something about Evolution. That would be emotional, illogical and unscientific-just like the moonbats handle complex issues.

I need data. Un- fudged without nuts. :0)

723 brookly red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:50:54pm

re: #695 Catttt

Must be something up in the hood - a helicopter is circling us.

might have been your 683.. hope not :)

724 Aye Pod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:51:10pm

re: #688 opnion

Jay Leno plays to a similar audience but he is a lot funnier. There's something very boring about Letterman - a bit like that old guy with the braces - what's his name again?

725 NonNativeTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:51:13pm

re: #710 Salamantis

So I guess they should not have been funded for 2007 and 2008 because
their current projects aren't worth pursuing, They want to start new ones.

726 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:51:15pm

re: #710 Salamantis

Yep. They are going to continue to pursue already-begun projects, but are fiscally prevented from embarking on new ones. That hair is a bright line a mile wide.


Ya know reading what the guy said, you can say that I think Or I feel that he cut funding because he is a closet Creationist, but he didn't say or even imply that.

727 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:51:26pm
728 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:52:09pm

re: #713 DEZes

I have to say I have never found him even remotely amusing, He is just another jerk on the air waves.

But, well paid partiularly for so little talent.

729 KingKenrod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:52:19pm

re: #718 Josephine

I'd have to hear or see a recording of both interviews so I could decide for myself the context in which the statements were made.

I think you are being very reasonable. I would love to hear the original question posed to Goodyear in context. The Globe and Mail provided its own context, which makes me suspicious.

730 joncelli  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:52:29pm

Testing new avatar...

731 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:53:00pm

re: #718 Josephine

I'd have to hear or see a recording of both interviews so I could decide for myself the context in which the statements were made.

Posted by Charles at the head of the thread:

Science minister Gary Goodyear now says he believes in evolution.

“Of course I do,” he told guest host Jane Taber during an appearance on the CTV program Power Play. “But it is an irrelevant question.”

That’s a different answer from the one Mr. Goodyear, a chiropractor and minister of state for science and technology, gave The Globe and Mail when asked the same thing during an interview published in Tuesday’s paper.

“I’m not going to answer that question. I am a Christian, and I don’t think anybody asking a question about my religion is appropriate,” he said at the time. “I do believe that just because you can’t see it under a microscope doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It could mean we don’t have a powerful enough microscope yet. So I’m not fussy on this business that we already know everything. ... I think we need to recognize that we don’t know.”

Evoking religion in response to a question about evolution drew heavy criticism from people like Brian Alters, an expert in evolution at McGill University in Montreal, and Jim Turk, executive director of the Canadian Association of University Teachers.

On Tuesday, Mr. Goodyear said twice during the CTV interview that he did believe in evolution.

“We are evolving every year, every decade. That’s a fact, whether it is to the intensity of the sun, whether it is to, as a chiropractor, walking on cement versus anything else, whether it is running shoes or high heels, of course we are evolving to our environment. But that’s not relevant and that is why I refused to answer the question. The interview was about our science and tech strategy, which is strong.”

Sal: and notice that in his walkback, his description of evolution is not even darwinian, but Lamarckian - and Lamarckism is a long-discredited theory.

732 WhiteRasta  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:53:38pm

re: #729 KingKenrod

The Globe and Mail is the Grey lady of Canadian newspapers. Neo-leftist crap sheet.

733 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:53:59pm

OT
Pestilential Swamp => Environmentally Sensitive Habitat Area.

734 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:54:04pm

re: #728 opnion

But, well paid partiularly for so little talent.

You talking about Letterman or Congress Critters?

735 DEZes  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:54:41pm

re: #728 opnion

But, well paid partiularly for so little talent.


Well over paid IMHO.

736 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:54:44pm

re: #719 Josephine

Come to Canada and increase our tax base, please.

And why was bioscience research selectively zeroed out? Why not just cut both it and other science programs a little, and achieve the same savings?

Sems like an anti-bioscience prejudice to me.

737 debutaunt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:54:44pm

re: #707 WhiteRasta

Is that senile boob still on TV?

Most likely still telling the same lame Bush 'joke'.

738 KingKenrod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:55:21pm

re: #731 Salamantis

Posted by Charles at the head of the thread:

Science minister Gary Goodyear now says he believes in evolution.

“Of course I do,” he told guest host Jane Taber during an appearance on the CTV program Power Play. “But it is an irrelevant question.”

That’s a different answer from the one Mr. Goodyear, a chiropractor and minister of state for science and technology, gave The Globe and Mail when asked the same thing during an interview published in Tuesday’s paper.

“I’m not going to answer that question. I am a Christian, and I don’t think anybody asking a question about my religion is appropriate,” he said at the time. “I do believe that just because you can’t see it under a microscope doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It could mean we don’t have a powerful enough microscope yet. So I’m not fussy on this business that we already know everything. ... I think we need to recognize that we don’t know.”

Evoking religion in response to a question about evolution drew heavy criticism from people like Brian Alters, an expert in evolution at McGill University in Montreal, and Jim Turk, executive director of the Canadian Association of University Teachers.

On Tuesday, Mr. Goodyear said twice during the CTV interview that he did believe in evolution.

“We are evolving every year, every decade. That’s a fact, whether it is to the intensity of the sun, whether it is to, as a chiropractor, walking on cement versus anything else, whether it is running shoes or high heels, of course we are evolving to our environment. But that’s not relevant and that is why I refused to answer the question. The interview was about our science and tech strategy, which is strong.”

Sal: and notice that in his walkback, his description of evolution is not even darwinian, but Lamarckian - and Lamarckism is a long-discredited theory.

The G&M is providing its own context. I want a transcript.

739 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:55:22pm

re: #721 FurryOldGuyJeans

I'll believe that when he is slathered in butter and served up to the American people as some members of Congress have tried to do to AIG's CEO. Who, by the way, was appointed to that position by some of the same flaming assholes who are now trying to incite the American people into lynching.


CT-Sen: Simmons Will Challenge Dodd

740 NonNativeTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:55:26pm

re: #730 joncelli

Hard to tell what it is without clicking on it. Funny though:)

741 reine.de.tout  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:55:26pm

re: #727 buzzsawmonkey

Caught him last night during channel-switch talking to Julia Roberts. He was crass enough to say something, apropos her marriage, about "Well, I guess there's no chance for me, is there?"

I have never cared for Roberts much, but the utter crassness of saying, in effect, "Gee, I'd like to f*ck you" on national TV was breathtaking in its vulgarity. That's not "talk," that's construction-worker hooting at passing women, dolled up in a fancy suit.

Thank you, Buzzsawmonkey.
This, ladies, is how a genuine and emotionally mature man thinks.

742 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:55:44pm

re: #734 FurryOldGuyJeans

You talking about Letterman or Congress Critters?

Could cut both ways.

743 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:55:59pm

re: #722 JustAHouseWife

I think you just like being mad.
My Canadian friend, who is in a wheel chair BTW, complains about his government wasting money all the time. Without specifics about this Canadian research being done, (which is a government funded only thing right?) I wouldn't get emotional about it, and I certainly wouldn't blame it on a man who believes in God, and is pressed by the press to say something about Evolution. That would be emotional, illogical and unscientific-just like the moonbats handle complex issues.

I need data. Un- fudged without nuts. :0)

re: #736 Salamantis

And why was bioscience research selectively zeroed out? Why not just cut both it and other science programs a little, and achieve the same savings?

Sems like an anti-bioscience prejudice to me.

744 Aye Pod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:56:16pm

re: #698 debutaunt

What the heck kind of trouble were you stiring up at the White House today?

You must be talking about the other, lesser Jimmah ;)

745 KingKenrod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:56:17pm

re: #730 joncelli

Testing new avatar...

Very nice...I like it!

746 albusteve  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:56:38pm

re: #737 debutaunt

Most likely still telling the same lame Bush 'joke'.

speaks volumes for the watchers that keep him employed imo

747 itellu3times  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:56:43pm

re: #281 sambo the lightning

Well, I am a scientist, and the last thing you could accuse me of is being a creationist, but I find it difficult not to agree with the simple observation that there are lots of things we still do not understand.

Amongst the proper company that statement will be properly understood, but even there it is only a statement of the obvious.

Amongst the improper company it is taken as a license to argue with no evidence whatsoever, since we are never certain, yada yada.

Therefore, when talking science, the emphasis must be on what is known, and the degree of certainty (eg, evidence) that is in hand, and not on what is missing, for in all science, all subjects, at all times, we only have so much evidence in hand, there is always one more rock we have not looked under, and no science can tell us in advance what can be found there - and yet, that is not a reason for us to abandon all science, or to expect to find fairies and unicorns when we do look.

/viz "Russell's teapot" from the other day

748 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:56:53pm

re: #730 joncelli

Testing new avatar...

up ding! cool avatar

749 brookly red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:57:15pm

re: #737 debutaunt

Most likely still telling the same lame Bush 'joke'.

you know, if people would just stop watching TV it would all just go away.

750 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:57:36pm

re: #739 HelloDare

CT-Sen: Simmons Will Challenge Dodd

I'll applaud when Dodd's ouster is a fait accompli. Voters have been notoriously fickle and unpredictable as of late.

751 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:57:49pm

re: #725 NonNativeTexan

So I guess they should not have been funded for 2007 and 2008 because
their current projects aren't worth pursuing, They want to start new ones.

No, they should be funded for 2009 also, so they can pursue BOTH current AND new projects. Kinda like waking and chewing gum simultaneously.

752 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:57:59pm
753 WhiteRasta  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:58:23pm

Jonathan Kay's comments on the Glob and Mail's witch hunt:

[Link: network.nationalpost.com...]

754 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:58:24pm

re: #707 WhiteRasta

Is that senile boob still on TV?

Yeah

755 FrogMarch  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:58:33pm

re: #702 Walter L. Newton

OT - The future of socialized health care in America... brought to you by the NHS of England...
...
""What we saw in those eight weeks will haunt us for the rest of our lives," said the 47-year-old. "We saw patients drinking out of flower vases they were so thirsty."

[Link: www.breitbart.com...]

Blind/bad faith Democrats will be sucking that nasty flower pot juice- singing- Praise Obama! It's FREEEEEE.

756 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:58:50pm

re: #749 brookly red

you know, if people would just stop watching TV it would all just go away.


Wouldn't that be the happiest thing in decades!

757 NonNativeTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:59:06pm

re: #751 Salamantis

758 Aye Pod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:59:16pm

Isn't Letterman gay?

759 DEZes  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:59:18pm

re: #707 WhiteRasta

Is that senile boob still on TV?


Thats why its called a boob tube.

760 debutaunt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:59:21pm

re: #730 joncelli

Testing new avatar...

Love it!

761 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:59:34pm

re: #749 brookly red

you know, if people would just stop watching TV it would all just go away.

But then people wouldn't know what to think or how to vote.

///

762 FrogMarch  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 3:59:51pm

re: #739 HelloDare

CT-Sen: Simmons Will Challenge Dodd

Who is going to challenge Barney Frank? *Barney Frank should step down and go hang himself in disgrace, but he won't.

763 WhiteRasta  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:00:04pm

Crap! Linkee no workee. Sorry.

764 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:00:37pm

re: #759 DEZes

Thats why its called a boob tube.


But it has march Madness! Right Hoops? Hoooops!

765 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:00:58pm

re: #684 FurryOldGuyJeans

The man's religion is not being questioned; what is being questioned is the man's scientific competency that is directly affected due to his possible support of Creationism.

What about Catholics who believe in transubstantiation? If they have any jobs in government or elsewhere that pertain to science, should their every decision be checked against their belief in something so unscientific?

766 brookly red  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:01:02pm

re: #761 FurryOldGuyJeans

But then people wouldn't know what to think or how to vote.

///

we can only hope...

767 itellu3times  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:01:19pm

re: #727 buzzsawmonkey

Caught him last night during channel-switch talking to Julia Roberts. He was crass enough to say something, apropos her marriage, about "Well, I guess there's no chance for me, is there?"

I have never cared for Roberts much, but the utter crassness of saying, in effect, "Gee, I'd like to f*ck you" on national TV was breathtaking in its vulgarity. That's not "talk," that's construction-worker hooting at passing women, dolled up in a fancy suit.

Now, now.

First of all, it's a convention (if absurd) for many (esp female) guests to flirt with Letterman no matter their real-world situation. Second of all, Julia Roberts and Letterman in particular have been playing this game for many years, it's just schtick.

I watched Letterman for many years and enjoyed it, but about a year ago I think he passed his expiration date, or maybe I passed mine, and I can't bear to watch him at all any more.

768 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:01:39pm

re: #726 opnion

Ya know reading what the guy said, you can say that I think Or I feel that he cut funding because he is a closet Creationist, but he didn't say or even imply that.

If he did, he wouldn't be a closet creationist, but an open one. However, his invocation of an argument from ignorance, and his deeming a question as to whether he accepted evolution to be religious rather than scientific, almost crosses that line. Which is why, being a politician and being faced with a public disaster, he cya backtracked, but did so clumsily, by invoking the long discredited Lamarckian view, and thus further demonstrating his abject ignorance of evolution.

769 OldLineTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:01:57pm

re: #757 NonNativeTexan

I see you are a man (or woman) of few words ...

770 Mirage  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:02:20pm

re: #577 opnion

The hypocrisy is beyond belief. Frank badgered the new AIG CEO without mercy.
He actually demanded names of those that got the bonuses. He said if the CEO did not give them up , he would use the subpoena power.
AIG offices have received death threats & the guy read one . Barney was not impressed.

Barney and others need to be badgered to death about how many "bonuses" they have received from companies that received bailouts and why they are entitled to money when they have utterly failed to do their job.

771 WhiteRasta  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:02:25pm

re: #741 reine.de.tout

A Shit-Leopard never changes his stripes........

772 OldLineTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:02:46pm

re: #761 FurryOldGuyJeans

But then people who voted for Obama wouldn't know what to think or how to vote.

///

Polished it up a bit for ya (didn't fix it, not broken!)

773 nyc redneck  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:02:59pm

re: #769 OldLineTexan

LOL,
come on, haven't you ever done that?

774 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:03:01pm

re: #765 Josephine

What about Catholics who believe in transubstantiation? If they have any jobs in government or elsewhere that pertain to science, should their every decision be checked against their belief in something so unscientific?

Transubstantiation doesn't collide with or contradict evolution, Creationism does.

775 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:03:29pm

re: #738 KingKenrod

The G&M is providing its own context. I want a transcript.

“I’m not going to answer that question. I am a Christian, and I don’t think anybody asking a question about my religion is appropriate,” he said at the time. “I do believe that just because you can’t see it under a microscope doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It could mean we don’t have a powerful enough microscope yet. So I’m not fussy on this business that we already know everything. ... I think we need to recognize that we don’t know.”

Kinda hard to take an entire long paragraph out of context.

776 Walter L. Newton  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:03:49pm

re: #765 Josephine

What about Catholics who believe in transubstantiation? If they have any jobs in government or elsewhere that pertain to science, should their every decision be checked against their belief in something so unscientific?

Yes, if they want to teach it in science class, or fund scientific research in it, or make it part of the countries public school education.

Why are you having so much trouble understanding that it's not his/her/they're belief in any supernatural concept, but in the fact that those concepts do not belong in the publicly funded discourse?

Stuck on stupid or something?

777 Aye Pod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:04:05pm

re: #731 Salamantis

Yep. He seems to be 'agreeing' that evolution is true in the sense that 'things change'. Admitting this does not amount to an acceptance of biological evolution at all. But then for a chiropractor who is also a politician, being dishonest must come very, very easily.

778 KingKenrod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:04:15pm

re: #775 Salamantis

“I’m not going to answer that question. I am a Christian, and I don’t think anybody asking a question about my religion is appropriate,” he said at the time. “I do believe that just because you can’t see it under a microscope doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It could mean we don’t have a powerful enough microscope yet. So I’m not fussy on this business that we already know everything. ... I think we need to recognize that we don’t know.”

Kinda hard to take an entire long paragraph out of context.

What was the question? I missed that.

779 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:04:18pm

re: #765 Josephine

Well in the USA there is a constitutional prohibition of any religious test for holding public office. (Article VI, last paragraph).

780 Lincolntf  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:04:31pm

re: #762 FrogMarch

His district is a gerrymandered mess that includes New Bedford and Fall River all the way up to Newton and Brookline. It's like a huge, misshapen Berkeley campus. He'll serve as long as he wants.

781 Only The Lurker Knows  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:04:50pm

BBIAW, maybe.

782 OldLineTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:05:21pm

re: #765 Josephine

What about Catholics who believe in transubstantiation? If they have any jobs in government or elsewhere that pertain to science, should their every decision be checked against their belief in something so unscientific?

HAH!

/ur logicks maek mai brane hurt!

783 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:05:27pm
784 OldLineTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:05:48pm

re: #773 nyc redneck

LOL,
come on, haven't you ever done that?

Of course not. Just everything else. ;)

785 albusteve  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:05:52pm

re: #776 Walter L. Newton

Yes, if they want to teach it in science class, or fund scientific research in it, or make it part of the countries public school education.

Why are you having so much trouble understanding that it's not his/her/they're belief in any supernatural concept, but in the fact that those concepts do not belong in the publicly funded discourse?

Stuck on stupid or something?

not brag but my whiz bang super mind had no trouble with that very concept...pretty simple or is it just me?

786 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:05:54pm

re: #765 Josephine

What about Catholics who believe in transubstantiation? If they have any jobs in government or elsewhere that pertain to science, should their every decision be checked against their belief in something so unscientific?

Catholics accept evolutionary theory.

787 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:06:04pm

I'm a little behind on the fudge posts, all...three? of them...but I have to tell you about the fudge sample I had at the Chocolate fest.

The zoo fudge ladies (the zoo, across from the place the Chocolate Fest was held, sells fudge) must have felt that they had to do something radical, something new, something unexpected for the Chocolate Fest. After all, it is pretty gourmet.

So they came up with...maple and bacon fudge.

I had a sample. I was laughing the whole time I ate it. It was excellent--the laugh I mean. I wish I could have at least one laugh like that every day, but I think the fudge was only good for one laugh.

The fudge was just plain weird.

788 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:06:24pm

re: #768 Salamantis

If he did, he wouldn't be a closet creationist, but an open one. However, his invocation of an argument from ignorance, and his deeming a question as to whether he accepted evolution to be religious rather than scientific, almost crosses that line. Which is why, being a politician and being faced with a public disaster, he cya backtracked, but did so clumsily, by invoking the long discredited Lamarckian view, and thus further demonstrating his abject ignorance of evolution.

Good call, of course if he said 'I am a Creationist", he would not be in the closet.
All that is really clear is that he is a Christian, which does not equate to Creationist.
You are making an assumption which may or may not be accurate, but still an assumption.

789 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:06:28pm

re: #729 KingKenrod

The only thing I like about the Globe and Mail is Christie Blatchford. She's brilliant.

790 FrogMarch  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:06:32pm

re: #780 Lincolntf

His district is a gerrymandered mess that includes New Bedford and Fall River all the way up to Newton and Brookline. It's like a huge, misshapen Berkeley campus. He'll serve as long as he wants.

figures. Plus, it;s taxachusettes - they love their uber-left wing idiots up there.

791 debutaunt  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:06:38pm

re: #775 Salamantis

“I’m not going to answer that question. I am a Christian, and I don’t think anybody asking a question about my religion is appropriate,” he said at the time. “I do believe that just because you can’t see it under a microscope doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It could mean we don’t have a powerful enough microscope yet. So I’m not fussy on this business that we already know everything. ... I think we need to recognize that we don’t know.”

Kinda hard to take an entire long paragraph out of context.

I am, therefore I'll think.

792 NonNativeTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:06:38pm

re: #769 OldLineTexan
Actually, it is a way of acknowledging Sal's reply, but also saying
I wish to move on... I not saying I haven't done it by accident,
but that one was intentional.

793 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:06:48pm

re: #778 KingKenrod

What was the question? I missed that.

The whole article reads like a prosecution brief. So much exculpatory information is apparently being withheld, starting with what exactly was asked of the man to generate such a response.

794 doppelganglander  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:06:59pm

Harvard Chaplain Oversees Godless 'Congregations' for Humanists

Now nonbelievers can enjoy all the tedious meetings, coerced "volunteer" opportunities, and hideous potluck meals that Christians have been enjoying enduring for years!

795 KingKenrod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:07:27pm

re: #762 FrogMarch

Who is going to challenge Barney Frank? *Barney Frank should step down and go hang himself in disgrace, but he won't.

The only things that could get Frank out of office are death and prison.

796 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:07:28pm

re: #774 FurryOldGuyJeans

Transubstantiation doesn't collide with or contradict evolution, Creationism does.

But what about science?

This isn't my original question; I read it in the National Post and thought it was interesting.

797 zombie  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:07:36pm

re: #295 SanFranciscoZionist

Oh, IF, I was going to mention from yesterday's thread that no one in SF has ever taken their kindergarteners to the Folsom Street Fair, God be praised. We think you meant that class that got taken to the same-sex wedding.

re: #576 Iron Fist

I responded about 6:30 this morning. I was referring to an individual who brought their kids (very young) to it (not a school class, as I remembered). It was off of Michelle Malkin's site. I think the same thing is also off of Zombietime.

Actually, here's the real story:

SanFranciscoZionist: Despite what you have been led to believe, there were kids and young children at the Folsom Street Fair, at least the years that I went. I saw them with my own eyes. Not a lot, but some.

However:

Iron Fist: No, I did not include any photos of any uinderage people in my report. Why? Because I did not want anyone to accuse me of doing something illegal by having photos of children and naked penises in the same Web page. After consulting with some lawyer types, they recommended NOT having any kid pics on that page, for obvious reasons.

So, you're both half-right and half-wrong.

In 2008, at the Dore Street Fair, I noticed increased vigilance at some of the gates scanning for kids entering -- probably because of the hubbub that Michelle and I caused the previous year.

798 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:07:47pm

re: #778 KingKenrod

What was the question? I missed that.

The question was Do you accept evolution?

799 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:08:05pm

re: #770 Mirage

Barney and others need to be badgered to death about how many "bonuses" they have received from companies that received bailouts and why they are entitled to money when they have utterly failed to do their job.


That would be interesting.

800 albusteve  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:08:24pm

re: #792 NonNativeTexan

Actually, it is a way of acknowledging Sal's reply, but also saying
I wish to move on... I not saying I haven't done it by accident,
but that one was intentional.

new fu?...never have tried that before...hmmm

801 Ojoe  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:08:29pm

re: #794 doppelganglander

What's not to like about macaroni casserole with tuna?

LOL

802 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:08:38pm

re: #780 Lincolntf

His district is a gerrymandered mess that includes New Bedford and Fall River all the way up to Newton and Brookline. It's like a huge, misshapen Berkeley campus. He'll serve as long as he wants.

Yes. He'll serve even if his roommate were a gay prostitute who ran a call service out of Barney's apartment. Not that something like that could ever happen, of course.

803 OldLineTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:08:45pm

re: #776 Walter L. Newton

Yes, if they want to teach it in science class, or fund scientific research in it, or make it part of the countries public school education.

Why are you having so much trouble understanding that it's not his/her/they're belief in any supernatural concept, but in the fact that those concepts do not belong in the publicly funded discourse?

Stuck on stupid or something?

Rude and un-called for, based on the prior discussion.

804 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:09:19pm

re: #788 opnion

Good call, of course if he said 'I am a Creationist", he would not be in the closet.
All that is really clear is that he is a Christian, which does not equate to Creationist.
You are making an assumption which may or may not be accurate, but still an assumption.

Not when he deems the question of whether he accepts evolution to be a religious rather than a scientific question, and goes on to invoke the oft-creationist-employed argument from ignorance. That pretty much gives the game away.

805 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:09:31pm

re: #796 Josephine

But what about science?

This isn't my original question; I read it in the National Post and thought it was interesting.

What about science? Is there even an attempt to learn instead of trying to be clever?

806 OldLineTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:10:10pm

re: #779 Ojoe

Well in the USA there is a constitutional prohibition of any religious test for holding public office. (Article VI, last paragraph).

Yet Kennedy's Catholicism was seen as a definite barrier to the Presidency. His election was a breakthrough in that regard.

807 bellamags  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:10:18pm

OT - way off topic.

Has anyone else noticed the slow reaction of children to get out of the way of cars in the road? When I was little, I would get my butt paddled if I didn't RUN to get out of the road if a car was in sight, not to mention, I was told not to play in the STREET.

The annoying children in my neighborhood play in the road and if you pull up behind them to get by on the street, they look at you like YOU are the one in the way. Then they yell at you to "slow down" even if you are going 5 under the speed limit. Parents just stand there and watch.

Here's an idea "Don't play in the f*cking street!" Every house has a generous back yard. When did this switch? It is indicative of the way this country seems to be going. The one with the power and advantage (automobile) must slow down and pander to the one with the disadvantage (kid in street) with the approval and encouragement of parents (government).

Sheesh. sorry if this made no sense but I had to get if off my chest.

808 NonNativeTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:10:25pm

re: #776 Walter L. Newton

Yes, if they want to teach it in science class, or fund scientific research in it, or make it part of the countries public school education.

Why are you having so much trouble understanding that it's not his/her/they're belief in any supernatural concept, but in the fact that those concepts do not belong in the publicly funded discourse?

Stuck on stupid or something?

Walter, I respect you. But Josephine has been anything but stupid and hasn't
resorted to name calling. I wish you would refrain from it, it isn't warranted.

809 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:10:42pm

re: #793 FurryOldGuyJeans

The whole article reads like a prosecution brief. So much exculpatory information is apparently being withheld, starting with what exactly was asked of the man to generate such a response.

That's an upding!

810 OldLineTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:11:04pm

re: #802 HelloDare

Yes. He'll serve even if his roommate were a gay prostitute who ran a call service out of Barney's apartment. Not that something like that could ever happen, of course.

You VRWCers and your wacky theories!

//////

811 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:11:36pm

re: #794 doppelganglander

I was at the Centre for Inquiry Monday night to hear Maryam Namazie speak about freedom of speech and political Islam.

In response to someone's question about not being able to find soup kitchens or charitable organizations at which to volunteer that weren't run by religious groups, she said that secular humanists need to start such organizations.

812 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:12:13pm

Both the Hoopster and Buzzsaw dislike Letterman..That's a fact..But Buzzsaw hasn't been completely honest why he dislikes Letterman..right buzz?
I have it on good info that you are the chief of Staff for The Tonight Show..Hey I know the limo driver that takes you to your secret hidaway on the Upper East Side in NYC when you are in town...Sighted frequently by Roger Freidman at the exclusive Oak room..Buzzsaw is often holding company with the rich and movers and Shakers..Currently according to the NYtimes Buzzsaw is in contract talks with the new staff Leno is forming on his latest project...
Always jetting cross country with his entourage buzzsaw is seldom without his trusty laptop.
/Limo drivers know everything..
...

813 OldLineTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:13:07pm

re: #807 bellamags

Nope, it's a phenomenon I have seen in our neighborhood.

The worst offenders around here are the 7-10 yo boys on their bikes. I have had one or two mock-throw things at my van (unprovoked, I might add).

814 albusteve  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:13:11pm

re: #803 OldLineTexan

my apologies for piling on...bad manners

815 KingKenrod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:13:24pm

re: #798 Salamantis

The question was Do you accept evolution?

If that's true, I totally agree with the position that Goodyear's response is bizarrely defensive and strongly suggests an overtly creationist approach to his job. But I couldn't find that quote with a google news search. Is there audio?

816 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:13:58pm

re: #793 FurryOldGuyJeans

The whole article reads like a prosecution brief. So much exculpatory information is apparently being withheld, starting with what exactly was asked of the man to generate such a response.

It's surpassingly clear from the excerpt Charles posted at the head of the thread precisely what was being asked:

Science minister Gary Goodyear now says he believes in evolution.

“Of course I do,” he told guest host Jane Taber during an appearance on the CTV program Power Play. “But it is an irrelevant question.”

That’s a different answer from the one Mr. Goodyear, a chiropractor and minister of state for science and technology, gave The Globe and Mail when asked the same thing during an interview published in Tuesday’s paper.

817 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:14:00pm

re: #804 Salamantis

Not when he deems the question of whether he accepts evolution to be a religious rather than a scientific question, and goes on to invoke the oft-creationist-employed argument from ignorance. That pretty much gives the game away.

Do you think that he may have reacted that way because he felt insulted?
What preceeded the question? There is not enough here to declare that this guy is a Creationist. It just isn't there.

818 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:14:07pm
819 HelloDare  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:14:17pm

re: #807 bellamags

OT - way off topic.

Has anyone else noticed the slow reaction of children to get out of the way of cars in the road? When I was little, I would get my butt paddled if I didn't RUN to get out of the road if a car was in sight, not to mention, I was told not to play in the STREET.

The annoying children in my neighborhood play in the road and if you pull up behind them to get by on the street, they look at you like YOU are the one in the way. Then they yell at you to "slow down" even if you are going 5 under the speed limit. Parents just stand there and watch.

Here's an idea "Don't play in the f*cking street!" Every house has a generous back yard. When did this switch? It is indicative of the way this country seems to be going. The one with the power and advantage (automobile) must slow down and pander to the one with the disadvantage (kid in street) with the approval and encouragement of parents (government).

Sheesh. sorry if this made no sense but I had to get if off my chest.

People don't want to judgmental about traffic or cars.

820 albusteve  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:14:26pm

re: #814 albusteve

my apologies for piling on...bad manners

to josephine...bad manners, bad fu, bad hair etc

821 Randall Gross  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:14:46pm

re: #623 rebnatan

Oh please.

Can you name five professed atheist politicians who hold office at national level?

Meanwhile I can point blindfolded to almost anyone who is in office in the US and Canada and say "xtian" and be correct more than 90% of the time.

822 bellamags  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:14:51pm

re: #813 OldLineTexan

Nope, it's a phenomenon I have seen in our neighborhood.

The worst offenders around here are the 7-10 yo boys on their bikes. I have had one or two mock-throw things at my van (unprovoked, I might add).

Oh HELL no. I wish one of those little turds would throw something at my car.

823 OldLineTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:15:28pm

re: #792 NonNativeTexan

Actually, it is a way of acknowledging Sal's reply, but also saying
I wish to move on... I not saying I haven't done it by accident,
but that one was intentional.

Cool, sorry.

824 Aviator  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:15:38pm

re: #795 KingKenrod

The only things that could get Frank out of office are death and prison.

How about Pelosi and a strap on?

825 bellamags  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:15:55pm

re: #824 Aviator

How about Pelosi and a strap on?

eeeeeeeewwwwwwwww

826 opnion  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:16:25pm

Good night Lizards , have fun.

827 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:16:55pm

re: #816 Salamantis

Yet where is the exact quote provided that is the question he was asked? I see a response only; no question.

828 Digital Display  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:17:07pm

re: #818 buzzsawmonkey

Actually, I turned against Letterman when he rejected my suggestion that he get with the times and change his name to either "Textman" or "Emailman" if he wanted to stay relevant.

OR said it was alright if i teased you..LOL

...Tornado siren just went off..stand by

829 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:17:52pm

re: #776 Walter L. Newton

Stuck on stupid or something?

Name-calling.

830 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:18:25pm

re: #815 KingKenrod

If that's true, I totally agree with the position that Goodyear's response is bizarrely defensive and strongly suggests an overtly creationist approach to his job. But I couldn't find that quote with a google news search. Is there audio?

Here's the original interview article:

[Link: www.theglobeandmail.com...]

831 JustAHouseWife  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:19:04pm

re: #743 Salamantis

Seems is a good word. But maybe you are just biased? I don't believe a biology department is a protected group. LOL
Come on. We don't know the details.

re: #777 Jimmah

Yep. He seems to be 'agreeing' that evolution is true in the sense that 'things change'. Admitting this does not amount to an acceptance of biological evolution at all. But then for a chiropractor who is also a politician, being dishonest must come very, very easily.

There's that "seems" thing again. Everyone is supposed to explain The Theory of Evolution exactly correctly the way you want on the spot ? I don't think so. I think you are thinking too much and then projecting some stuff that is not there. He's a chiropractor, not a biologist. He wouldn't speak like that. you have no proof he's dishonest either.

832 NonNativeTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:19:09pm

re: #823 OldLineTexan

833 ArchangelMichael  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:19:39pm

re: #797 zombie

I think SFZ meant that it was not a teacher taking young students for a "teachable moment" field trip which was sanctioned by the school.

834 doppelganglander  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:19:57pm

re: #811 Josephine

I was at the Centre for Inquiry Monday night to hear Maryam Namazie speak about freedom of speech and political Islam.

In response to someone's question about not being able to find soup kitchens or charitable organizations at which to volunteer that weren't run by religious groups, she said that secular humanists need to start such organizations.

And good for them if they do. I just find it comical that this group wants to copy all the trappings of your typical evangelical church, minus God. I'd like to find a church that doesn't have small group meetings, forced handshakes in the middle of the service, name tags, fellowship as a verb, gossip disguised as a prayer request, or green bean casserole.

835 doppelganglander  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:20:29pm

re: #807 bellamags

Were you in my subdivision today? You should have stopped in and said hello!

836 krisstingle  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:20:42pm

Thank you God for a really OLD earth with all of it's beautiful treasures. Without you're million's of years of SCIENCE where would we be today?Thank you Charles. Please keep up the good fight.

837 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:20:45pm

re: #817 opnion

Do you think that he may have reacted that way because he felt insulted?
What preceeded the question? There is not enough here to declare that this guy is a Creationist. It just isn't there.

Minister won't confirm belief in evolution
Researchers aghast that key figure in funding controversy invokes religion in science discussion
[Link: www.theglobeandmail.com...]

Canada's science minister, the man at the centre of the controversy over federal funding cuts to researchers, won't say if he believes in evolution.

“I'm not going to answer that question. I am a Christian, and I don't think anybody asking a question about my religion is appropriate,” Gary Goodyear, the federal Minister of State for Science and Technology, said in an interview with The Globe and Mail.

A funding crunch, exacerbated by cuts in the January budget, has left many senior researchers across the county scrambling to find the money to continue their experiments.

Some have expressed concern that Mr. Goodyear, a chiropractor from Cambridge, Ont., is suspicious of science, perhaps because he is a creationist.

When asked about those rumours, Mr. Goodyear said such conversations are not worth having.

“Obviously, I have a background that supports the fact I have read the science on muscle physiology and neural chemistry,” said the minister, who took chemistry and physics courses as an undergraduate at the University of Waterloo.

“I do believe that just because you can't see it under a microscope doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It could mean we don't have a powerful enough microscope yet. So I'm not fussy on this business that we already know everything. … I think we need to recognize that we don't know.”

Asked to clarify if he was talking about the role of a creator, Mr. Goodyear said that the interview was getting off topic.

Brian Alters, founder and director of the Evolution Education Research Centre at McGill University in Montreal, was shocked by the minister's comments.

Evolution is a scientific fact, Dr. Alters said, and the foundation of modern biology, genetics and paleontology. It is taught at universities and accepted by many of the world's major religions, he said.

“It is the same as asking the gentleman, ‘Do you believe the world is flat?' and he doesn't answer on religious grounds,” said Dr. Alters. “Or gravity, or plate tectonics, or that the Earth goes around the sun.”

Jim Turk, executive director of the Canadian Association of University Teachers, said he was flabbergasted that the minister would invoke his religion when asked about evolution.

“The traditions of science and the reliance on testable and provable knowledge has served us well for several hundred years and have been the basis for most of our advancement. It is inconceivable that a government would have a minister of science that rejects the basis of scientific discovery and traditions,” he said.

Mr. Goodyear's evasive answers on evolution are unlikely to reassure the scientists who are skeptical about him, and they bolster the notion that there is a divide between the minister and the research community.

838 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:21:35pm

re: #805 FurryOldGuyJeans

What about science? Is there even an attempt to learn instead of trying to be clever?

More name-calling.

I'm bringing up a subject that I read about and think might be related.

839 NonNativeTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:22:53pm

re: #814 albusteve

my apologies for piling on...bad manners

You must be Walter's sock puppet?

840 OldLineTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:23:47pm

re: #822 bellamags

Oh HELL no. I wish one of those little turds would throw something at my car.

Not me. I stopped parenting other people's rude children after I got married. I once broke up a bully's fight in MY yard (I rented a corner house and was home sick) and got his MOMMY in my face, LOL.

841 zombie  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:24:15pm

re: #833 ArchangelMichael

I think SFZ meant that it was not a teacher taking young students for a "teachable moment" field trip which was sanctioned by the school.

Ah, OK.

I might add the proviso,

"No one has ever taken a kindergarten class to the Folsom Street Fair -- that we know of."

842 OldLineTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:24:22pm

re: #839 NonNativeTexan

You must be Walter's sock puppet?

No, he's just a very naughty boy!

//////

843 Charles Johnson  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:24:23pm

re: #811 Josephine

I was at the Centre for Inquiry Monday night to hear Maryam Namazie speak about freedom of speech and political Islam.

In response to someone's question about not being able to find soup kitchens or charitable organizations at which to volunteer that weren't run by religious groups, she said that secular humanists need to start such organizations.

A list of charities run by atheists and/or secular groups.

844 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:25:09pm

re: #831 JustAHouseWife

Seems is a good word. But maybe you are just biased? I don't believe a biology department is a protected group. LOL
Come on. We don't know the details.

Maybe Gary Goodyear is biased. And maybe you are, too.

We hve a lot of details. The man was asked if he accepted evolution, and meandered from claiming it was a religious rather than a scientific question to hauling out the old creationist argument from ignorance canard.

845 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:28:27pm

re: #827 FurryOldGuyJeans

Yet where is the exact quote provided that is the question he was asked? I see a response only; no question.

Here is the original interview article:

[Link: www.theglobeandmail.com...]

Canada's science minister, the man at the centre of the controversy over federal funding cuts to researchers, won't say if he believes in evolution.

“I'm not going to answer that question. I am a Christian, and I don't think anybody asking a question about my religion is appropriate,” Gary Goodyear, the federal Minister of State for Science and Technology, said in an interview with The Globe and Mail.

846 KingKenrod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:29:10pm

re: #830 Salamantis

Here's the original interview article:

[Link: www.theglobeandmail.com...]

Well, I don't think you understand my question; I've read the article; I just want to know what question the G&M asked. It isn't in the article. Only a transcript of the exchange, from beginning to end, will have what I want. But thanks for trying to help.

847 WhiteRasta  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:29:12pm

re: #783 buzzsawmonkey

No, no, no. A Shit Leopard has stripes! Ask Mr Leahey at the Sunnyvale Trailer Park.

848 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:30:12pm

re: #843 Charles

A list of charities run by atheists and/or secular groups.

Thank you.

I had a nice chat with another one of the founders of One Law for All (she was travelling with Maryam) and we're in touch via email. I'll pass it along to her.

I videotaped most of Maryam's speech and the Q&A and hope to have it up on YouTube soon. I completely agree with her secular humanist approach.

849 bellamags  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:31:18pm

re: #835 doppelganglander

Were you in my subdivision today? You should have stopped in and said hello!

LOL. HI!

850 bellamags  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:31:40pm

re: #840 OldLineTexan

Not me. I stopped parenting other people's rude children after I got married. I once broke up a bully's fight in MY yard (I rented a corner house and was home sick) and got his MOMMY in my face, LOL.

Jeez. Great example she sets.

851 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:32:21pm

re: #846 KingKenrod

Well, I don't think you understand my question; I've read the article; I just want to know what question the G&M asked. It isn't in the article. Only a transcript of the exchange, from beginning to end, will have what I want. But thanks for trying to help.

The question was obviously whether or not he accepted evolution, as can be readily seen from this excerpt:

[Link: www.theglobeandmail.com...]

Canada's science minister, the man at the centre of the controversy over federal funding cuts to researchers, won't say if he believes in evolution.

“I'm not going to answer that question. I am a Christian, and I don't think anybody asking a question about my religion is appropriate,” Gary Goodyear, the federal Minister of State for Science and Technology, said in an interview with The Globe and Mail.

Sal: the question obviously wasn't about Presbyterianism, optimum tire rotation schedules, or the Big Bang theory.

852 Aye Pod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:32:36pm

re: #831 JustAHouseWife

Maybe it's because we've seen this kind of obfuscation too many times now to mistake it for anything else. Most people find conveying their basic opinions on issues like this to be a very easy thing to do. Yet we are now to believe that this politician, someone with, one would expect, an elevated ability to get his ideas across, couldn't manage this simple thing without everyone coming away with the exact opposite impression. It's not a question of proof - I just don't believe it.

853 OldLineTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:32:55pm

re: #850 bellamags

Jeez. Great example she sets.

This was in 1985. Just think, that kid (if he's alive) is in his THIRTIES.

854 bellamags  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:33:08pm

see ya later lizards. me having company.

855 bellamags  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:33:21pm

re: #853 OldLineTexan

This was in 1985. Just think, that kid (if he's alive) is in his THIRTIES.

oh thats really bad.

856 bellamags  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:33:36pm

re: #853 OldLineTexan

This was in 1985. Just think, that kid (if he's alive) is in his THIRTIES.

probably an Obama supporter.

857 zombie  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:33:58pm

re: #843 Charles

A list of charities run by atheists and/or secular groups.

My favorite one on that list is The Nature Conservancy. They use the power of good old-fashioned capitalism to help the environment. Instead of whining about misuse of land, or trying to create political pressure, they simply do the obvious: They freakin' buy the land at fair market value, and then set it aside permanently as undeveloped natural open space. I love it. No room for argument, no one is unhappy. No voting, no changing political winds. It's almost like an alternative National Park system created privately.

858 FrogMarch  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:34:06pm

re: #795 KingKenrod

The only things that could get Frank out of office are death and prison.

Barney needs to go.

859 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:34:12pm

re: #820 albusteve

to josephine...bad manners, bad fu, bad hair etc

Thank you, albusteve.

860 OldLineTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:34:34pm

re: #856 bellamags

probably an Obama supporter.

Unless he ended up a felon. Outside of FLA or Chicago, I mean.

/

861 WhiteRasta  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:34:41pm

re: #850 bellamags

I saw a guy fly off the handle and FREAK OUT on a little 8 year old who had the nerve to tell they guy not to smoke, while the guy was sitting on a park bench, minding his own business.

The little shit ran away screaming and crying. Bet that's the last time the little fascist tells a stranger anything.

862 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:36:56pm
863 NonNativeTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:37:28pm

re: #857 zombie

My favorite one on that list is The Nature Conservancy. They use the power of good old-fashioned capitalism to help the environment. Instead of whining about misuse of land, or trying to create political pressure, they simply do the obvious: They freakin' buy the land at fair market value, and then set it aside permanently as undeveloped natural open space. I love it. No room for argument, no one is unhappy. No voting, no changing political winds. It's almost like an alternative National Park system created privately.

Couldn't agree more. I support em.

864 OldLineTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:38:12pm

re: #861 WhiteRasta

I saw a guy fly off the handle and FREAK OUT on a little 8 year old who had the nerve to tell they guy not to smoke, while the guy was sitting on a park bench, minding his own business.

The little shit ran away screaming and crying. Bet that's the last time the little fascist tells a stranger anything.

I don't believe in that. Like I said, I kicked the habit, but with the bully for example I tried to make the kid explain to me why he was holding fights in my side yard. When he gave me some advanced lip, I informed him that I would join his fight in the title round. THEN he ran to Mommy.

Kids these days are like bear cubs. Momma is usually foraging nearby with half an eye on the little jewel.

My kids were not allowed to ANNOY strangers, LOL.

865 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:38:41pm

re: #834 doppelganglander

Gossip in church? Why, I never! ; )

Maryam Namazie said twice that gays have been denied food at Christian soup kitchens. I'm not gay and I've never been in a soup kitchen, so I can only hope this doesn't happen or that, if it did happen somewhere, it was an isolated event that was remedied tout de suite. Maryam is from the UK, so who knows?

866 bellamags  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:38:55pm

re: #861 WhiteRasta

LOL. fascist bastid.

867 OldLineTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:38:57pm

re: #862 ACron

Nice opening salvo.

868 CyanSnowHawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:39:51pm

re: #867 OldLineTexan

Nice opening salvo.

Single shot should be all it gets.

869 OldLineTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:40:39pm

re: #862 ACron

Even as a Fascist freak, I'm going to miss you.

870 KingKenrod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:40:52pm

re: #857 zombie

My favorite one on that list is The Nature Conservancy. They use the power of good old-fashioned capitalism to help the environment. Instead of whining about misuse of land, or trying to create political pressure, they simply do the obvious: They freakin' buy the land at fair market value, and then set it aside permanently as undeveloped natural open space. I love it. No room for argument, no one is unhappy. No voting, no changing political winds. It's almost like an alternative National Park system created privately.

That's very interesting; thanks for the tip. I'll read more about them.

871 OldLineTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:41:19pm

re: #868 CyanSnowHawk

Single shot should be all it gets.

Maybe he's a fast pooper ... squat rise throw repeat

///

872 Buck  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:42:26pm

re: #407 Salamantis

Umm...he's not cutting OTHER areas of the science budget...

Ummm yes he is...

873 Aye Pod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:42:47pm

re: #862 ACron

Such courage./ Run along now and recount your tale of heroic defiance and martyrdom to whatever little circle of complete and utter cretins it is that you are trying to impress.

874 rightymouse  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:46:13pm

re: #862 ACron

You haven't been paying attention here, have you?

Fascism? Why that's just Sulliness.

875 screaming_eagle  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:46:24pm

re: #862 ACron

You wouldn't know facism if it bit you on the ass.

876 funky chicken  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:49:32pm

re: #690 Spare O'Lake

Gotta run now, but I just wanted to thank you all for taking an interest in Canadian politics.
BTW, did you all notice that the CEO of Genome Canada makes approx. $400K/yr., was appointed by the Liberal Party, comes from Quebec, and has a bone to pick with the Conservative government?

Heh. How interesting.

877 NonNativeTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:50:47pm

re: #870 KingKenrod

That's very interesting; thanks for the tip. I'll read more about them.


Second Nature supports them. Excellent and beautiful screen
savers
[Link: www.secondnaturecd.com...]

878 Kronocide  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:54:16pm

re: #862 ACron

Join so you could kicked out. If you had a sack you'd stay a while and debate while disagreeing. But you cannot without being a child. Grow up and come back later.

879 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:54:29pm
880 lawhawk  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:54:30pm

re: #862 ACron

Gee, insulting the blog host? Looking for a banning? Or just a serious attention grabber because mommy didn't love you or you had daddy issues?

Take it somewhere else.

881 Cathypop  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:54:37pm

re: #862 ACron
This LITTLE man (?) needs a time out. And a major whack up side the head.

882 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:55:37pm

re: #875 screaming_eagle

You wouldn't know facism if it bit you on the ass.

And neither does Wishing, who updinged ACron's rancid little rant.

883 OldLineTexan  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:55:59pm

re: #882 Salamantis

And neither does Wishing, who updinged ACron's rancid little rant.

I saw that - I hope it was poor aim.

884 Aye Pod  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 4:56:37pm

Yo wishing - cough - think you might have had a bit of a dinger malfunction on #862...

885 Wishing  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 5:02:24pm

re: #882 Salamantis

And neither does Wishing, who updinged ACron's rancid little rant.

what? LOL i must have hit the wrong key...where was this? I just down dinged him!

886 [deleted]  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 5:03:49pm
887 Wishing  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 5:04:04pm

well drat it is gone now...Charles please check 862 for me?

888 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 5:06:01pm

re: #887 Wishing

well drat it is gone now...Charles please check 862 for me?

Too late!

/not that it matters now...;~)

889 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 5:06:15pm

re: #862 ACron

FINALLY! A ripe and piquant troll worth serving up, diced and sliced at the peak of gaminess!

890 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 5:07:17pm

Some trolls we have to hunt down and kill; others just walk right up to us and commit hari kiri...;~)

891 Wishing  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 5:08:06pm

re: #888 Salamantis

Too late!

/not that it matters now...;~)

They call US fascists...ridiculous...am glad Stinky whacked him..

892 Kronocide  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 5:08:47pm

MisDinging is a serious malfarcation. It has been noted in your file.

That is all.

893 FurryOldGuyJeans  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 5:09:42pm

re: #891 Wishing

They call US fascists...ridiculous...am glad Stinky whacked him..

Let 'em call me a fascist. Just shows how little "they" know and comprehend.

894 lostlakehiker  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 5:10:14pm

re: #811 Josephine

I was at the Centre for Inquiry Monday night to hear Maryam Namazie speak about freedom of speech and political Islam.

In response to someone's question about not being able to find soup kitchens or charitable organizations at which to volunteer that weren't run by religious groups, she said that secular humanists need to start such organizations.

Well, there's also the option for the secular humanist to volunteer and help a religious organization with its work. Suppose you think the Salvation Army does a good job per dollar donated at helping people who have suddenly fallen into poverty. Secular humanists are practical folk who look for results, right?

895 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 5:18:11pm

re: #807 bellamags


Has anyone else noticed the slow reaction of children to get out of the way of cars in the road?

Punk kids have been doing that for as long as I can remember. Back in the late '80s, my solution was to floor the gas pedal. That got them moving pretty quick, and I even got to see one punk run right into a telephone pole.

Ahh, memories.

896 JustAHouseWife  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 5:25:20pm

re: #852 Jimmah

Sometimes government funded research is bad and wasteful spending. My husband worked for California EPA and quit for the private sector because of the waste (and the private sector is more honest, because they will be sued if they sell bad data and overspend) He didn't want to be a part of that-our tax dollars wasted on things by government scientists you would not believe. Sometimes these scientists want to be funded just to have their job. So, since MOST people believe in God one way or another, and most people make all kinds of professional and business choices in spite of it, I think jumping to an all out conspiracy theory in Canada's government (of all places) is a bit over the top.
I want all the facts, and this sounds political to me.

My Canadian friend in the wheel chair, has a rare nerve/brain disease.
He will not let Health Canada touch him anymore.
He says they treated him like a guinea pig.

So I have some insight into all of this too, besides suspecting a Creationist plot to not fund science.

I can't seem to type a short comment ever!

897 Throbert McGee  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 5:43:39pm

re: #807 bellamags

OT - way off topic.

Has anyone else noticed the slow reaction of children to get out of the way of cars in the road?

This reminds me of a classic Charles Addams cartoon -- a standard traffic sign with the warning "SLOW CHILDREN PLAYING" and all around it are exhausted-looking kids playing hopscotch and jumping rope veeeery sluggishly, as though they were astronauts under the effects of Jupiter's gravity.

898 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 5:44:10pm

re: #896 JustAHouseWife

Sometimes government funded research is bad and wasteful spending. My husband worked for California EPA and quit for the private sector because of the waste (and the private sector is more honest, because they will be sued if they sell bad data and overspend) He didn't want to be a part of that-our tax dollars wasted on things by government scientists you would not believe. Sometimes these scientists want to be funded just to have their job. So, since MOST people believe in God one way or another, and most people make all kinds of professional and business choices in spite of it, I think jumping to an all out conspiracy theory in Canada's government (of all places) is a bit over the top.
I want all the facts, and this sounds political to me.

My Canadian friend in the wheel chair, has a rare nerve/brain disease.
He will not let Health Canada touch him anymore.
He says they treated him like a guinea pig.

So I have some insight into all of this too, besides suspecting a Creationist plot to not fund science.

I can't seem to type a short comment ever!

There is ample and abundant evidence, provided by Minister Goodyear's own words, to consider him to be evolutionarily illiterate at best and anti-evolution at worst. And his selective actions concerning zeroing out the budget of Genome Canada to pursue new research, but not similarly treating the scientific funding of other non-bioscience concerns, only serves to buttress such considerations.

899 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 5:52:30pm

re: #897 Throbert McGee

This reminds me of a classic Charles Addams cartoon -- a standard traffic sign with the warning "SLOW CHILDREN PLAYING" and all around it are exhausted-looking kids playing hopscotch and jumping rope veeeery sluggishly, as though they were astronauts under the effects of Jupiter's gravity.

Every time I would pass one of those signs with my grandma in the car she would always say "I feel so sorry for those slow children".

900 Throbert McGee  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 5:53:51pm

re: #787 EmmmieG

The zoo fudge ladies (the zoo, across from the place the Chocolate Fest was held, sells fudge) must have felt that they had to do something radical, something new, something unexpected for the Chocolate Fest. After all, it is pretty gourmet.

So they came up with...maple and bacon fudge.

On paper (so to speak), the combination sounds like such a winner that it almost makes me horny. I mean, the smoky fattiness of bacon goes brilliantly with the maple syrup running off a stack of pancakes; throw in the, um, fudginess of fudge and you've got mouth-nirvana. In theory.

But I can see how it could go terribly wrong in real life...

901 Mirage  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 5:56:18pm

Darn... went to lunch and missed a troll. *snap*

902 JustAHouseWife  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 6:00:20pm

re: #898 Salamantis

I understand what you are saying, but until we know what Genome Canada was spending money on last year, the whole argument is silly to me. But carry on with the cause. I googled, and this man studied biomechanics too, but has no degree. Maybe it all just didn't make sense to him? ;0)

I think, and my last words are: political "out rage" stuff, nothing more then that.
It's like the stem cell thing, some say adult stem cells have more hope.
What if they do but the "believers" move money to the other kind for research?
Such is life.

903 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 6:03:54pm

re: #894 lostlakehiker

Well, there's also the option for the secular humanist to volunteer and help a religious organization with its work. Suppose you think the Salvation Army does a good job per dollar donated at helping people who have suddenly fallen into poverty. Secular humanists are practical folk who look for results, right?

During the Q & A Monday night, a guy who called himself an atheist told Maryam Namazie that he had searched for a non-religious charity at which to volunteer and couldn't find one (in the Toronto area). He is currently volunteering at a Jewish charity.

Maryam seemed to believe that all beneficiaries of religious charities are subject to mandatory, unwelcome proselytizing. She lives in the UK, so who knows how things are set up there? It sounds like the only nursery school or daycare she could find for her child is a Christian one and she doesn't like that he is told, "Jesus loves you." Again, I don't know the situation in the England. When I was researching daycares for my child, they were all secular and either owned privately or partially subsidized by the government.

I have the utmost respect for the Salvation Army's charity work.

904 reine.de.tout  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 6:05:05pm

re: #903 Josephine

During the Q & A Monday night, a guy who called himself an atheist told Maryam Namazie that he had searched for a non-religious charity at which to volunteer and couldn't find one (in the Toronto area). He is currently volunteering at a Jewish charity.

Maryam seemed to believe that all beneficiaries of religious charities are subject to mandatory, unwelcome proselytizing. She lives in the UK, so who knows how things are set up there? It sounds like the only nursery school or daycare she could find for her child is a Christian one and she doesn't like that he is told, "Jesus loves you." Again, I don't know the situation in the England. When I was researching daycares for my child, they were all secular and either owned privately or partially subsidized by the government.

I have the utmost respect for the Salvation Army's charity work.

I have had the great good fortune to have had dealings with Catholic Charities, and I will say that their services are available to all, and there is no proselytizing.

905 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 6:06:24pm

PIMF
the England

906 Josephine  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 6:07:38pm

re: #904 reine.de.tout

I have had the great good fortune to have had dealings with Catholic Charities, and I will say that their services are available to all, and there is no proselytizing.

That fits with my expectations and I don't doubt that you are correct.

907 Gretchen  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 6:14:52pm

OT

Unbelievable testimony at the Ward Churchill trial

CU attorney Patrick O'Rourke is finishing his cross-examination of Yellow Bird, which began Tuesday afternoon.

O'Rourke is asking why passages that Churchill stated as fact in his writings do not appear in the citations he made in his footnotes.

Yellow Bird said professors often lay out hypotheses in their work and see if it fits into the entire historical picture. Then various scholars test those facts.

O'Rourke asked him if there aren't commonly accepted standards at universities, like rules against plagiarism and falsification. He asked Yellow Bird if it's okay to just invent facts.

"You may be perpetrating a falsehood that others will be relying on," O'Rourke said.

"They don't invent facts, they invent the possibility that these things happen," the professor responded.

Yellow Bird said it's important that oral tradition in American Indian studies aren't ignored. Doing so, he told the jury, would be the equivalent of calling his people "liars."


So basically gossip becomes "fact" if you are an Indian studies professor, just to be politically correct and not call people liars. I understand that various groups have been exploited in the history of the world, however, that doesn't mean academics should make stuff up based on grievances or myth. Shouldn't they investigate claims to make sure they are historically accurate and indicate in writing that they have a hypothesis based on various facts A, B and C, one of which could be oral tradition?

908 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 6:43:09pm

re: #902 JustAHouseWife

I understand what you are saying, but until we know what Genome Canada was spending money on last year, the whole argument is silly to me. But carry on with the cause. I googled, and this man studied biomechanics too, but has no degree. Maybe it all just didn't make sense to him? ;0)

[Link: www.cbc.ca...]

Genome Canada research aims to improve forests, crops, the environment, health and new technology development.

Dewar is working on sequencing strains of C. difficile bacteria that have been plaguing hospitals.

He pointed to a project to sequence the genomes of 50 different types of cancer, led by Ontario Institute of Cancer Research scientific director Tom Hudson, as one project that would be short of funding without further federal support.

Hudson is participating in a worldwide effort to study the genetics of cancer. The Ontario government is funding a $25 million project on pancreatic cancer, and researchers were hoping the federal government would commit to studying other forms of cancer, said Rhea Cohen, a spokeswoman for the Ontario institute.

[Link: www.globecampus.ca...]

While the United States took steps to add billions to research budgets, Adrian Tsang, a molecular geneticist at Concordia University in Montreal, worried that his long-time effort to find a biofuel alternative will be compromised with Genome Canada — the only agency in the country that regularly funds large-scale science — receiving no new money in 2009.

Dr. Tsang, who collaborates with Dutch researchers and the U.S. Department of Energy, is developing enzymes from fungi to generate a clean energy source, as well as enzymes that can reduce energy consumption in the manufacturing of pulp and paper.

Dr. Hayden, whose own discoveries, which include the genes behind Huntington's disease and pain, have led to spin-off companies, has also received support from Genome Canada.

One project now in doubt, for example, is the so-called Regulome Consortium, a massive international effort to map the genetic circuitry of stem cells. Canada was to lead the $84-million venture, which involves 64 investigators in 12 countries and is considered crucial to programming stem cells for future treatments.

They were spending money last year on the same things they will be spending money on this year, because they have not been funded one iota for new research. But the guy is either anti-evolution or evolutionarily illiterate, or both. You seem to think it's evolutionarily illiterate; I think it's both.

I think, and my last words are: political "out rage" stuff, nothing more then that.
It's like the stem cell thing, some say adult stem cells have more hope.
What if they do but the "believers" move money to the other kind for research?
Such is life.

Actually, the reason that adult stem cell research has advanced in the US while embryonic stem cell research has not is not only because Dubya restricted that research to a handful of pre-existing lines, but also because he refused to spend federal funds on it, pumping federal dollars into adult stem cell research instead. Unless stem cell researchers wanted to starve or move elsewhere, they had to follow the money.

It reminds me of the drunk who dropped a quarter in a dark alley but searched for it under a streetlight because he could see better (the light being grant money).

909 joncelli  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 7:55:58pm

re: #760 debutaunt

You guys are so nice. It tickled my funny bone so I had to have it.

910 el guape  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 10:10:30pm

"which could be directly related to his creationist beliefs."

It could also be that he has an allergy to Dr. Tsang. Who knows.

McCarthyism, anyone?

911 Westward Ho  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 10:50:23pm

re: #589 JustAHouseWife

Get back to your dishes hon.

912 Salamantis  Wed, Mar 18, 2009 11:07:50pm

re: #910 el guape

"which could be directly related to his creationist beliefs."

It could also be that he has an allergy to Dr. Tsang. Who knows.

McCarthyism, anyone?

We have his words and his actions; what else do you want?

913 Zimriel  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:59:17am

re: #911 Westward Ho

Get back to your dishes hon.

I don't care if you're for us or against us; you're still a sexist (and unfunny) wanker.

914 El Guape  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 11:42:28am

re: #912 Salamantis

Intentions are hard to prove, and that is why I put the word 'could' in bold. What do you know about the Canadian Genome Project? Who do you know that was involved in it? Which party endorsed it? Started it? How politicized was it?

I just think it's not as simple as his Creationist bent forced him to cancel the project.

Oh, and BTW, Canada has no Minister of State for Science. And ya, Canada matters. Most of America's oil comes from there.

915 Salamantis  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:02:31pm

re: #914 El Guape

Intentions are hard to prove, and that is why I put the word 'could' in bold. What do you know about the Canadian Genome Project? Who do you know that was involved in it? Which party endorsed it? Started it? How politicized was it?

I just think it's not as simple as his Creationist bent forced him to cancel the project.

Oh, and BTW, Canada has no Minister of State for Science. And ya, Canada matters. Most of America's oil comes from there.

I know about the valuable work they do, and have posted on it in this thread. And while individual scientists may be politicized, empirical science itself is neither conservative nor liberal.

Goodyear's Creationist bent might have not been the sole reason that he zeroed out evolutionary bioscience funding, and ONLY that, but you cannot credibly maintain that it played no contributing part in such an action.

What is Goodyear, if not Canada's Science Minister? He is widely reported as being such.

And I never sid that Canada doesn't matter. Our northern neighbor is our largest trading partner, and matters immensely. Which is a solid reason that Americans should be gravely concerned about the possible creationist politicization of their science ministry.

916 El Guape  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 10:12:59pm

Agreed with your first paragraph.

I think you are using your own terminology here when you argue that Goodyear pulled funding for "evolutionary bioscience". It looks as though he pulled funding for a multifaceted genome project, which was investigating cancer, Huntingtons, several others and their various genetic roots. You can call it 'evolutionary bioscience' if you want to, but you could also call it a genome research fund, the genetic mapping of human diseases, the genome project for viable biofuels etc.

And Canada does have a Minister of Science, just not a Minister of State for Science. We have no State department (well, we might...I have been living in the Middle East for over a year now, they could have made one :).

I know you didn't say Canada didn't matter, several others did. That was a shot at all the other comments I read that were making the usual Blame Canada jokes. Not all of us are anti-American. I know where my national security comes from, and believe me, it's not the Canadian Forces.

917 Salamantis  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 11:01:36pm

re: #916 El Guape

Agreed with your first paragraph.

I think you are using your own terminology here when you argue that Goodyear pulled funding for "evolutionary bioscience". It looks as though he pulled funding for a multifaceted genome project, which was investigating cancer, Huntingtons, several others and their various genetic roots. You can call it 'evolutionary bioscience' if you want to, but you could also call it a genome research fund, the genetic mapping of human diseases, the genome project for viable biofuels etc.

And Canada does have a Minister of Science, just not a Minister of State for Science. We have no State department (well, we might...I have been living in the Middle East for over a year now, they could have made one :).

I know you didn't say Canada didn't matter, several others did. That was a shot at all the other comments I read that were making the usual Blame Canada jokes. Not all of us are anti-American. I know where my national security comes from, and believe me, it's not the Canadian Forces.

Well, without the impetus that was provided by evolutionary theory, perhaps Watson & Crick would not have been inspired to endeavor to isolate and identify DNA in the first place, and there would BE NO genome projects.

And considering all the good they do, would YOU have zeroed out their fiscal year 2009 funding? Or would you have cut the other programs a little deeper, and funded new projects perhaps less, but still some?

918 RoyalCanadian  Sat, Mar 21, 2009 9:58:29am

Let me start by saying that some of my best friends are Jewish, I know people who are gay (not that there is anything wrong with that!) and that not all muslims are terrorists. Oh yeah and I BELIEVE that from the information I have been able to read that the theory of evolution is almost certainly correct. Frankly, given what I think I know, the notion that the earth is less than 10,000 years old seems ridiculous. Of course, I wasn't there when "it" whatever “it” may be, happened, and science demands that one keep an open mind even if you think something seems ridiculous at a given point in time. I will admit that I cannot tell you how “something” was originally created by a bunch of nothings bumping into each other, but my ability to ridicule creationists is that little something that helps me past the annoying "something from nothing problem" by focusing on how wrong the creationist must be.

I admit I enjoy the jihad against the Christian Fundamentalists. We can crap on them from our impression of what we think they actually believe and we can pooh-pooh their ideas out of hand just because they are Christian Fundamentalists. Most importantly, we can preemptively keep them out of office to be certain they will never be guilty of crimes we will not let them commit. I get the same endorphin release that the taliban must get when they behead someone for their ideas rather than going through the bother of finding out if they are guilty of anything. Once we blow the creationists back to the stone age they don’t even believe in to keep them out of office we can the focus our attention on keeping the Jews and the gays and the muslims and anyone else we don’t like out of office to ensure that none of their unpalatable thought crimes have a chance to even get started. If the global warming fair minded geniuses can use science to subjugate discussion we can too.

919 Salamantis  Sat, Mar 21, 2009 6:32:04pm

re: #918 RoyalCanadian

Let me start by saying that some of my best friends are Jewish, I know people who are gay (not that there is anything wrong with that!) and that not all muslims are terrorists. Oh yeah and I BELIEVE that from the information I have been able to read that the theory of evolution is almost certainly correct. Frankly, given what I think I know, the notion that the earth is less than 10,000 years old seems ridiculous. Of course, I wasn't there when "it" whatever “it” may be, happened, and science demands that one keep an open mind even if you think something seems ridiculous at a given point in time. I will admit that I cannot tell you how “something” was originally created by a bunch of nothings bumping into each other, but my ability to ridicule creationists is that little something that helps me past the annoying "something from nothing problem" by focusing on how wrong the creationist must be.

I admit I enjoy the jihad against the Christian Fundamentalists. We can crap on them from our impression of what we think they actually believe and we can pooh-pooh their ideas out of hand just because they are Christian Fundamentalists. Most importantly, we can preemptively keep them out of office to be certain they will never be guilty of crimes we will not let them commit. I get the same endorphin release that the taliban must get when they behead someone for their ideas rather than going through the bother of finding out if they are guilty of anything. Once we blow the creationists back to the stone age they don’t even believe in to keep them out of office we can the focus our attention on keeping the Jews and the gays and the muslims and anyone else we don’t like out of office to ensure that none of their unpalatable thought crimes have a chance to even get started. If the global warming fair minded geniuses can use science to subjugate discussion we can too.

Pastor Chris Fox? Is that you?

[Link: unreasonablefaith.com...]

Mobys are dicks.


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