The Case of the Creationist Mom

US News • Views: 4,061

Our post about the child custody case in North Carolina (in which a judge ordered a home-schooling mother to put her kids in public school) was hotly debated, with more than 1400 comments; now there’s a written decision from the judge making it clear that the media’s reporting of the case was distorted and misleading. It turns out that the father was not the plaintiff in the case, and the mother’s creationist views were only part of the problem. It was the mother who sued to deprive the father of all authority over the children’s education and religion — and she did this because she belongs to a religious cult with some very unsavory practices.

Timothy Sandefur has a good post on this:

Most notably, this case is not one in which the father sought to deprive the mother of custody; on the contrary, the mother is the Plaintiff—she is the one asking the judge to deprive the father of “all decision making authority…related to education and religion,” as well as overnight visits, visits on Sundays, and other things. It is the mother, not the father, who is seeking to enlist the judiciary’s help in forcing an ideology on the children. The court has denied these requests in an eminently sensible ruling.

Moreover, that decision has virtually nothing to do with evolution or science education. As you can see from reading the order, the court received extensive evidence and individual testimony to the effect that the mother in the case has joined a cult which engages in some very disturbing practices. One former member of the cult testified that it “is not a healthy place for kids to grow up[;] it is run by fear and manipulation…. People are constantly beaten down mentally and live a miserable existence….” Other former members testified that the cult’s leader “made several inappropriate comments about girls as young as 4 years old” and “condoned a ‘boot camp style regimen’ that involved waking children as young as 4 up in the night screaming at them to do push-ups.” The mother’s own father testified that one of the children “exhibit[ed] signs of extreme strain.”

The cultish nature of this group is indicated by the fact that the mother asked the court to forbid the father from “allow[ing] the children to have contact with any ex-Sound Doctrine members or anyone hostile to the organization.”

Jump to bottom

739 comments
1 screaming_eagle  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:00:12pm

Sounds like a even BIGGER mess than first thought.

2 johnnyreb  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:01:05pm

This sounds like some Scientology custody cases that I have read about.

3 Mirage  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:01:10pm

Talk about a seriously convoluted situation ...

4 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:03:20pm

YIKES!

5 UberInfidel67  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:03:20pm

it “is not a healthy place for kids to grow up[;] it is run by fear and manipulation.... People are constantly beaten down mentally and live a miserable existence....” Other former members testified that the cult’s leader “made several inappropriate comments about girls as young as 4 years old”

She converted to Islam?

Really, what is the difference between what she is doing compared to islam? But they get a pass?

6 simonml  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:04:29pm

Media strikes again! Or strikes out, which is it?

7 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:04:49pm

no details about the cults practices....they leave it to your imagination...why would that be?....why even write the story if you leave that info out?

8 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:04:53pm

re: #6 simonml

Media strikes again! Or strikes out, which is it?

Yes.

9 UberInfidel67  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:05:08pm

BTW, I am not sticking up for this woman. I really do see parallels here.

10 Salamantis  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:05:39pm

The truth will eventually out, despite the efforts of those with ulterior motivs and creationist agendas to dismiss, ignore, deny or obfucate it.

11 JCM  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:06:04pm

re: #6 simonml

Media strikes again! Or strikes out, which is it?

Media swings, misses, Strikes out, and on the follow through strikes self in the family jewels.

12 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:06:07pm

Didn't the judge say Mom's creationism was a factor in his decision?

13 nyc redneck  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:06:36pm

if the mother is involved in an abusive cult, then putting the kids in public school is the least of the problems.
the kids should be taken from her completely if they are being subject to abuse
like this.

14 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:06:42pm

the notorious Push Up Cult

15 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:06:59pm

Let's all say a little prayer for the kids here, and for all the ones still stuck in this cult

16 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:07:21pm

re: #15 Shug

Let's all say a little prayer for the kids here, and for all the ones still stuck in this cult

Amen!
*prayers*

17 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:07:27pm

re: #14 albusteve

the notorious Push Up Cult

Distant cousins of the flaming hoop jumpers

18 dapperdave  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:07:50pm

What's the name of the cult? I hope they're not waiting for a comet like those folks down here in San Diego.

19 simonml  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:07:51pm

The "cult" is called Sound Doctrine. A website [Link: www.sounddoctrine.com...] has a statement that says "No Quarter No Compromise No Retreat No Regret"

Doesn't sound like a loving religion. Sounds like Gen. Patton (sorry if that insults any Patton fans. It was not intended to)

20 leww37334  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:07:59pm

In the new Obama world Everything will be taken away from you including your rights as a parent.

Get ready to lose the rest of your rights.

21 JCM  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:08:24pm

re: #15 Shug

Let's all say a little prayer for the kids here, and for all the ones still stuck in this cult

AMEN!

22 Last Mohican  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:09:23pm

re: #20 leww37334

In the new Obama world Everything will be taken away from you including your rights as a parent.

Get ready to lose the rest of your rights.

Huh?

23 Bloodnok  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:09:38pm

re: #20 leww37334

You do not have the right to put your children in an abusive situation. You just don't.

24 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:09:46pm

At the Lord's direction, this site is currently unavailable

Apparently, God scrubbed the sound cult's website

25 Empire1  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:09:52pm

re: #15 Shug

Let's all say a little prayer for the kids here, and for all the ones still stuck in this cult

Done.

26 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:10:51pm

The "former cult memebers", as quoted, were not specific. Nor was there a reference to her children s academic achievements.

27 scottishbuzzsaw  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:11:11pm

May the children's father be granted custody.

28 Last Mohican  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:12:02pm

I confess that I didn't read the initial report, the one that tried to make it look like the kids were being taken away from the mom because she was teaching them creationism. So where did that story come from? Who was trying to spin it that way?

29 funky chicken  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:12:07pm
the media’s reporting of the case was distorted and misleading. It turns out that the father was not the plaintiff in the case, and the mother’s creationist views were only part of the problem. It was the mother who sued to deprive the father of all authority over the children’s education and religion — and she did this because she belongs to a religious cult with some very unsavory practices.

I thought this was the most likely explanation all along. I didn't get involved in the thread here and only posted at hotair that the case was really sad for the kids because the mother unilaterally chose to join an extreme church and pull the kids out of school against her husband's wishes.

One would think conservatives would be offended by that kind of behavior from one parent, since it's pretty obvious that her behavior was NOT in the best interests of the children.

30 JCM  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:12:37pm

re: #20 leww37334

In the new Obama world Everything will be taken away from you including your rights as a parent.

Get ready to lose the rest of your rights.

What's the custody case have to do with BHO?

31 nikis-knight  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:12:55pm

Sounds like the creationism bit was a bit of a red herring.
Fathers often get hosed by Social services these days. It's just as much a shame for the kids when a dad is pushed away by the state or vengeful mothers as when they flee their responsibilities.

But it's pretty hard to judge these situations accurately from the outside, especially with just second or third hand reports.

32 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:12:58pm

what are the juicy details?....I'm not reading that whole document...I have drinks to mix...

33 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:13:11pm

re: #19 simonml

The "cult" is called Sound Doctrine. A website [Link: www.sounddoctrine.com...] has a statement that says "No Quarter No Compromise No Retreat No Regret"

Doesn't sound like a loving religion. Sounds like Gen. Patton (sorry if that insults any Patton fans. It was not intended to)

Sounds like it should be a plank in the conservative platform: It would be a nice change of pace.

General Patton and his fans would agree.

34 funky chicken  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:13:21pm

re: #28 Last Mohican

I confess that I didn't read the initial report, the one that tried to make it look like the kids were being taken away from the mom because she was teaching them creationism. So where did that story come from? Who was trying to spin it that way?

The quotes all came from the mother, of course. And they were pretty standard creationist type boilerplate. That's what made me suspicious of her from the outset.

35 Irenike  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:14:16pm

Unfortunately, this case will only give ammunition to those who oppose homeschooling. They'll point their fingers at this crazy mom and say: "See? Homeschooling parents just want to isolate and brainwash their kids."

Every time a story like this crops up, I shudder. A few years ago, when that other wacky homeschooling incident her in California got the attention of the law and the media, a liberal cousin of mine rather smugly suggested that parents are not necessarily better than public schools and that those particular kids would have been better off in a public school. (My kids are homeschooled, her kids go to private schools). I thought to myself that maybe she should just come out and say that most people shouldn't be allowed to raise their own children, period, since most parents are inferior by liberal social-engineering standards. Brave new world, indeed.

36 Yashmak  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:14:21pm

Reading the judge's decision, it sounds quite equitable under the circumstances.

After reading the facts of the case in the judge's decision, it sounds to me like it should be the father requesting sole custody. . .and that it would probably be in the children's best interest for him to get it.

Children should not be around anyone who would make 'inappropriate comments about girls as young as 4'.

37 dapperdave  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:14:33pm

They link to a lot of Baptist websites...I don't think they're kool-aid drinkers.

38 Last Mohican  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:15:16pm

re: #20 leww37334

In the new Obama world Everything will be taken away from you including your rights as a parent.

Get ready to lose the rest of your rights.

Actually, if I lose the right to subject my children to an abusive cult in which children as young as four years old are awakened, yelled at, and forced to do pushups in the middle of the night, and subjected to sexual comments... I think I'll be okay with that.

39 Karagush  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:15:57pm

this is a case of child abuse and cult abuse. i wish they hadnt made this into a parental rights issue, and a lifestyle issue.

40 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:15:58pm

re: #36 Yashmak

Reading the judge's decision, it sounds quite equitable under the circumstances.

After reading the facts of the case in the judge's decision, it sounds to me like it should be the father requesting sole custody. . .and that it would probably be in the children's best interest for him to get it.

Children should not be around anyone who would make 'inappropriate comments about girls as young as 4'.

maybe the judge is a crackpot...maybe people are lying...not many facts here

41 funky chicken  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:16:20pm

re: #5 UberInfidel67

it “is not a healthy place for kids to grow up[;] it is run by fear and manipulation.... People are constantly beaten down mentally and live a miserable existence....” Other former members testified that the cult’s leader “made several inappropriate comments about girls as young as 4 years old”

She converted to Islam?

Really, what is the difference between what she is doing compared to islam? But they get a pass?

Just because Islam gets a pass, doesn't mean this group should too.

42 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:16:43pm

re: #39 Karagush

this is a case of child abuse and cult abuse. i wish they hadnt made this into a parental rights issue, and a lifestyle issue.

how were children abused?....

43 Salamantis  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:16:49pm

It turns out that I was sadly correct; this chilling pdf is indeed authored by the Timothy Williams led Sound Doctrine church to which Venessa Mills belongs:

[Link: carriedcross.org...]

44 Bloodnok  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:17:25pm

re: #26 BatGuano

The "former cult memebers", as quoted, were not specific. Nor was there a reference to her children s academic achievements.

I believe the abuse allegations trump the children's academic achievements. They could be geniuses; if they are being abused or are in a threatening environment they should be removed.

45 UberInfidel67  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:17:40pm

re: #41 funky chicken That is NOT at all what I meant. And I posted a BTW below it.

46 Karagush  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:18:18pm

re: #42 albusteve

reading between the lines thats what it looks like. the issue has been handled badly in the media but from everything i read it looks like thats what the concern was, and NOT just homeschooling.

47 funky chicken  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:18:48pm

re: #39 Karagush

this is a case of child abuse and cult abuse. i wish they hadnt made this into a parental rights issue, and a lifestyle issue.

I'd call it a father's rights issue, because the mother sought to terminate the father's right to make decisions involving his childrens' upbringing. One has to assume that he was supporting the wife and kids while she was dragging them into a cult.

48 Catttt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:19:39pm

Well! The media certainly DID distort this case. Thanks for the clarification.

Before, I was too confused to make up my mind - now it is clear.

I'd still rather talk about Rasputin's penis, but I guess this is more important and timely............/

49 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:19:40pm

re: #46 Karagush

reading between the lines thats what it looks like. the issue has been handled badly in the media but from everything i read it looks like thats what the concern was, and NOT just homeschooling.

you don't make these types of allegations and expect people to read between the lines do you?....

50 JohnnyReb  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:19:59pm

As said above, there are not a whole lot of facts in any of these articles. Pretty much second party hearsay stuff from what I read in the links.

51 dapperdave  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:20:23pm

re: #43 Salamantis

I opened that up and the first word was "love" and then a lot of fine print, what does it say?

52 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:21:00pm

re: #48 Catttt

Well! The media certainly DID distort this case. Thanks for the clarification.

Before, I was too confused to make up my mind - now it is clear.

I'd still rather talk about Rasputin's penis, but I guess this is more important and timely............/

you can buy a replica for 20$....

53 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:21:10pm

re: #44 Bloodnok

Agreed. Abuse trumps academic achievement. What was the abuse?

54 Bloodnok  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:21:16pm

re: #26 BatGuano

The "former cult memebers", as quoted, were not specific. Nor was there a reference to her children s academic achievements.

The cult members are named in the decision. Read the whole thing.

55 allan5oh  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:21:41pm

Sounds like scientology

56 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:21:46pm

re: #53 BatGuano

Agreed. Abuse trumps academic achievement. What was the abuse?

push ups....

57 Salamantis  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:21:50pm

re: #50 JohnnyReb

As said above, there are not a whole lot of facts in any of these articles. Pretty much second party hearsay stuff from what I read in the links.

The judge's decision is filled with facts.

58 funky chicken  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:22:02pm

re: #43 Salamantis

It turns out that I was sadly correct; this chilling pdf is indeed authored by the Timothy Williams led Sound Doctrine church to which Venessa Mills belongs:

[Link: carriedcross.org...]

Holy shit.

59 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:22:31pm

(Beyond saying that I see the wisdom in the judge's ruling - good decision)

After reading the sworn testimony about what goes on in that "Church", I think it best that I do not comment further on this subject, on the "ministers" ... or on the mother.

/deletion would probably be near-instantaneous

60 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:22:41pm

I' have been here since January 17, 2009. How does one contact Charles? I don't know?

61 Bloodnok  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:22:45pm

re: #53 BatGuano

Agreed. Abuse trumps academic achievement. What was the abuse?

Read the whole thing.

62 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:23:21pm

re: #42 albusteve

how were children abused?....

Have you read the ruling?
The sworn testimony?

63 funky chicken  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:24:22pm

re: #45 UberInfidel67

Yeah, I know. You certainly weren't excusing her or anything. And we agree that it's disgusting that Islam gets a pass out of political correctness.

But I don't want anybody conflating this insane group with me or with my decision to home-school now or in the future if I so choose.

64 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:24:55pm

re: #62 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Have you read the ruling?
The sworn testimony?

just surfed it...

65 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:25:09pm

re: #61 Bloodnok

I will.

66 Throbert McGee  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:25:17pm

re: #26 BatGuano

The "former cult memebers", as quoted, were not specific. Nor was there a reference to her children s academic achievements.

But if I'm not misremembering, in the original stories we had only the mother's claim that her kids were performing academically about two years above grade level. Of course, she may well have been telling the truth about this, but it should be recognized as a claim made by one of the parties in a legal dispute, and has not necessarily been verified by a neutral source.

67 JCM  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:25:32pm

re: #51 dapperdave

I opened that up and the first word was "love" and then a lot of fine print, what does it say?

Quick read through. He picks on up on the fruit of the Spirit being love, to the exclusion of all other things. Also from the web site, "Standing on the 1611 Authorized King James Bible," the KJV is a poor translation to base an entire doctrine upon.

68 nyc redneck  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:25:54pm

the cult leader made inappropriate comments abt. girls as young as 4 yrs. old.
that kind of a behavior is a big red flag.
mothers who subject their children to an environment like this are not
fit to parent.

69 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:26:31pm

re: #64 albusteve

Mo9st of us do. That is why if you ask someone for specifics they refer you to the doc.

70 Karagush  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:26:32pm

re: #49 albusteve

you don't make these types of allegations and expect people to read between the lines do you?....

i do so i guess i thought you would see it too. when somone wants to isolate the kids with no contact and stuff somones up to no good, or been up to no good. in this case it looks like moms got some kind of problem, and yes shes unfairly messing with the fathers reasonable rights. I consider that a deal where the kids might be in an abusive or abuse ripe situation.

I do not consider this issue to be rightly reduced just to "homeschooling" or "christian lifestyle" at all. TO play it that way may be to either shield the mom from looking like a whackjob
or to make all homeschoolers devout christians look like whackadoos

71 debutaunt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:26:39pm

re: #18 dapperdave

What's the name of the cult? I hope they're not waiting for a comet like those folks down here in San Diego.

Quick! Check their footwear!

72 Photon Cowboy  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:26:52pm

Don't forget that every dollar this father sent for support probably went to the grand leader dude.I kind of fell sorry for the mother,when your dumb enough to join a cult no amount of school will ever make you smarterre: #47 funky chicken

73 Salamantis  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:26:56pm

re: #51 dapperdave

I opened that up and the first word was "love" and then a lot of fine print, what does it say?

I previously copied and pasted it here for the list to read, in four posts:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

It is truly marrow-chilling.

74 funky chicken  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:27:00pm

re: #43 Salamantis

It turns out that I was sadly correct; this chilling pdf is indeed authored by the Timothy Williams led Sound Doctrine church to which Venessa Mills belongs:

[Link: carriedcross.org...]

I have to recommend that anybody still questioning this decision go read the massive crazy that Sal found. It's truly frightening.

It's also sad that the father felt he shouldn't seek full custody, although the way the courts treat fathers, he probably would have had a tough time winning and would have caused the kids more pain in the battle.

75 debutaunt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:27:32pm

re: #24 Shug

At the Lord's direction, this site is currently unavailable

Apparently, God scrubbed the sound cult's website

In a new world second.

76 dapperdave  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:27:41pm

re: #67 JCM

I noticed the 1611 ver. I wonder who could understand that?

77 Karagush  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:28:18pm

re: #58 funky chicken

Holy shit.

OK anyone wanna give me any more trouble for thinking "gee this is about abuse and not really homeschooling?"

78 funky chicken  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:28:23pm

re: #70 Karagush

AMEN + 1000 if I could

79 dapperdave  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:28:23pm

re: #71 debutaunt

Get your Nikes on and have a drink.

80 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:28:54pm

re: #69 BatGuano

Mo9st of us do. That is why if you ask someone for specifics they refer you to the doc.

I don't really see any specifics in the document...child abuse is extremely serious...duh...I would thing these allegations would be clearly spelled out

81 JohnnyReb  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:28:57pm

re: #57 Salamantis

The judge's decision is filled with facts.


I am reading that now. The judge calls them facts, but the whole thing truly looks like a classic he said/she said case to me.

82 dapperdave  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:29:13pm

re: #73 Salamantis

Thanks!

83 Yashmak  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:29:23pm

re: #40 albusteve

maybe the judge is a crackpot...maybe people are lying...not many facts here

And I note that there's none to support that hypothesis.

84 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:29:45pm

re: #64 albusteve

just surfed it...

"Findings of Fact"
Start with item 11, bottom of page 2.
It's long, but wading through it is critical to understanding the issues.

I "liked" (*barf*) item 32.

85 A Kiwi Infidel  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:30:02pm

Sound white noise Doctrine

fixed

86 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:30:10pm

I am so sad to read this--I read the entire judge's ruling. She really presented herself as a Christian homeschooler being bashed by an adulterous husband.

Now we learn that her parents, her sister, and her former best friend are all calling this a cult in sworn affidavits. Not his family, and his friends, but her family and her friends.

This homeschooler says to put those kids back in school, and she owes homeschoolers an apology for allowing us to defend her.

87 Karagush  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:30:33pm

re: #78 funky chicken

AMEN + 1000 if I could

thanks FC this subject is close to my heart. My foster daughter has a wacky family. I know icky when i smell it.

BTW i home schooled her.

88 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:30:43pm

Anyone who has not read the entire decision, cease and desist posting, otherwise we get a Tower of Babel posts; everyone not understanding everyone else. I am not a speed reader like most you.

89 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:31:21pm

It is absolutely disgusting when a mother seeks to deprive her children of a relationship with their father in the absence of documented physical and emotional abuse.

I'll never forget my husband's ex-wife's statement to the court appointed psychologist in their custody battle - "I'ts not about their education, it's about control".

The truth and motivation of the parties tend to be clear after time.

90 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:31:23pm

I saw the mom of TV this morning. She looked cute. That's about all I have to say.

91 Salamantis  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:31:25pm

re: #81 JohnnyReb

I am reading that now. The judge calls them facts, but the whole thing truly looks like a classic he said/she said case to me.

Nope. There's a lot of corroborating testimony from other people, and a lot of other evidence presnted.

92 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:32:45pm

re: #73 Salamantis

I previously copied and pasted it here for the list to read, in four posts:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

It is truly marrow-chilling.

Their idea of "love" is to crucify themselves, and others.

93 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:32:48pm

I feel terrible for the thousands of children across America who are held hostage on a daily basis because of their parents' commitment to fundamentalist, intolerant, and radical religious zeal. This abuse must end.

94 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:33:01pm

re: #84 pre-Boomer Marine brat

MWAH!

95 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:33:08pm

re: #73 Salamantis

Met a very nice Mennonite couple (he was actually a Mennonite pastor). I asked about the head coverings that the women wore (have always wanted to understand that concept) they explained it (briefly and well) and he asked for my address and told me he'd send me a pamphlet.

Damn thing was 20 pages long...single spaced, about 6 point type...

If they ask if you want to read it, just decline....

Religious folks like to cite.

They like to cite A LOT!

96 Yashmak  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:33:19pm

re: #43 Salamantis

It turns out that I was sadly correct; this chilling pdf is indeed authored by the Timothy Williams led Sound Doctrine church to which Venessa Mills belongs:

[Link: carriedcross.org...]

Quoted again for emphasis. Chilling. I stand by my earlier statement. The judge's call was the right one.

97 Bloodnok  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:33:21pm

GAZE

98 HelloDare  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:33:31pm

Mighty bad reporting in the first story. Should have known.

99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:34:47pm

re: #86 EmmmieG

I did not home school my children, but I greatly admire those who do competently. But, I am frightened of idiots who home school.

100 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:35:16pm

re: #43 Salamantis

It turns out that I was sadly correct; this chilling pdf is indeed authored by the Timothy Williams led Sound Doctrine church to which Venessa Mills belongs:

[Link: carriedcross.org...]

This, however, only refers to outward things. At Sound Doctrine Church we also love each other enough to give up our own opinions and way of thinking. Other people often shamelessly label this as “brainwashing” but, for us who know the power of the cross, it is simply the love of God at work in our minds and thoughts.

Oh, hell yes!
Sure!
*[deleted]*

101 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:35:36pm

re: #93 SpaceJesus

I feel terrible for the thousands of children across America who are held hostage on a daily basis because of their parents' commitment to fundamentalist, intolerant, and radical religious zeal. This abuse must end.


Especially the ones who behead their wives and kill their daughters here in America in the name of their religion. Sickening.

102 alegrias  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:36:23pm

OT

Obama appointee Richard Holbrooke took nearly $250,000 per year from AIG--as one of its Board members from 2001-2008!

Holbrooke was also going to get a bonus. What a sleazeball! In addition,
Holbrooke was allegedly a wife abuser, as neighbors in their grand DC coop apartment reported.

(from the most recent post at the weeklystandard.com blog)

103 Karagush  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:36:24pm

re: #93 SpaceJesus

I feel terrible for the thousands of children across America who are held hostage on a daily basis because of their parents' commitment to fundamentalist, intolerant, and radical religious zeal. This abuse must end.

the problem is people tend to see this thru the prism of their own biases. Its not just a Christian Fundy problem but crosses into many many other religions and lifestyles. Unfortunately, control freaks with OCD and cults come in all flavors ethnicities and backgrounds.

104 reine.de.tout  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:36:52pm

re: #86 EmmmieG

I am so sad to read this--I read the entire judge's ruling. She really presented herself as a Christian homeschooler being bashed by an adulterous husband.

Now we learn that her parents, her sister, and her former best friend are all calling this a cult in sworn affidavits. Not his family, and his friends, but her family and her friends.

This homeschooler says to put those kids back in school, and she owes homeschoolers an apology for allowing us to defend her.

Actually, if it were my decision, I would go further than that, and would give custody of these kids to the father alone, with the mom only allowed to have supervised visits with them.

I have no patience for cults - for what they do to people, how they tear families apart, take from people what they've earned.

The issue in this case turns out not to be homeschooling, as it appeared earlier. Many people defended homeschooling as a practice, and it is worth defending imo.

The issue in this case is what appears to be a complete nut-case of a mom.

105 Alberta Oil Peon  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:37:30pm

It's about what I expected.

106 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:37:55pm

re: #99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I did not home school my children, but I greatly admire those who do competently. But, I am frightened of idiots who home school.

For those sane individuals who cannot afford private schools for their children, home-schooling is the best option. Public schools in many areas are awful. I would hate to see this option taken away from decent people just because there are a few crack-pots out there.

107 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:38:09pm

re: #94 goddessoftheclassroom

MWAH!

............................

108 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:38:42pm

re: #99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I did not home school my children, but I greatly admire those who do competently. But, I am frightened of idiots who home school.

You have to make school a priority. I treat it like a job, and put most of my energy into it, because I consider my children's education that important.

109 reine.de.tout  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:38:46pm

re: #93 SpaceJesus

I feel terrible for the thousands of children across America who are held hostage on a daily basis because of their parents' commitment to fundamentalist, intolerant, and radical religious zeal. This abuse must end.

Here you go again.
Children must be sent to school so that the teachers and appropriate state officials can rid them of the evil influence of their parents.

This is one case. There may be others.

But the vast vast majority of home-schooled kids live in loving homes with normal parents.

110 Mr. Owl  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:39:00pm
it is run by fear and manipulation.... People are constantly beaten down mentally and live a miserable existence....

this sounds familiar for some reason.....?

111 dapperdave  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:39:44pm

Fox news is running current pics of Charles Manson, now that guy was a cult leader to the 10th degree of sickness.

112 Catttt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:41:11pm

re: #52 albusteve

you can buy a replica for 20$....

I'll bet it's not sold on Amazon.....

113 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:41:50pm

re: #103 Karagush

the problem is people tend to see this thru the prism of their own biases. Its not just a Christian Fundy problem but crosses into many many other religions and lifestyles. Unfortunately, control freaks with OCD and cults come in all flavors ethnicities and backgrounds.

Well I never said it was, but unfortunately in America, the vast majority of religious fundamentalism does emanate from Evangelical Christian communities, societies and churches

114 reine.de.tout  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:41:53pm

re: #111 dapperdave

Fox news is running current pics of Charles Manson, now that guy was a cult leader to the 10th degree of sickness.

Can you believe Manson is now 74 years old?
Those murders were so chillingly strange, so frightening, it sure doesn't seem to me like it was 30 years ago.

115 Aviator  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:42:00pm

re: #60 BatGuano

I' have been here since January 17, 2009. How does one contact Charles? I don't know?

Just say something really nasty. He'll get in touch with you.

116 Zimriel  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:42:02pm

Having seen Newdow + ACLU on one side, and the Disco Dudes on th'other, this was definitely a case for the Twenty Four Hour Rule.

117 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:42:11pm

re: #61 Bloodnok

OK. I read it. What is the abuse?

118 Alberta Oil Peon  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:42:13pm

re: #32 albusteve

what are the juicy details?....I'm not reading that whole document...I have drinks to mix...

How about the cult's "pastor" making suggestive remarks about the sexual seductiveness of cult members' children?

You OK with that?

Jonestown, here we come. Yee-haw!
/

119 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:42:44pm

re: #102 alegrias

OT

Obama appointee Richard Holbrooke took nearly $250,000 per year from AIG--as one of its Board members from 2001-2008!

Holbrooke was also going to get a bonus. What a sleazeball! In addition,
Holbrooke was allegedly a wife abuser, as neighbors in their grand DC coop apartment reported.

(from the most recent post at the weeklystandard.com blog)

YuP:
Obama administration special envoy Richard Holbooke was on the American International Group Inc. board of directors in early 2008 when the insurance company locked in the bonuses now stoking outrage across the U.S.

Holbrooke, a veteran diplomat who is now the administration's point man on Pakistan and Afghanistan, served on the board between 2001 and mid-2008. During that period, AIG undertook the aggressive investment strategies that led to a near-collapse and forced a multibillion-dollar federal bailout.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

No wonder he was so happy to hot foot it over to Afghanistan?

120 Aviator  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:42:45pm

re: #115 Aviator

Oops forgot the
/

121 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:43:30pm

re: #108 EmmmieG

You have to make school a priority. I treat it like a job, and put most of my energy into it, because I consider my children's education that important.

A gazillion updings!

122 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:43:38pm

re: #94 goddessoftheclassroom

MWAH!

NOW! (Back in from getting supper in the microwave.)

How are you doing?!

123 Karagush  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:43:39pm

re: #113 SpaceJesus

Well I never said it was, but unfortunately in America, the vast majority of religious fundamentalism does emanate from Evangelical Christian communities, societies and churches

well i guess because i live where there is great deal of hindu and Muslim as well as sikh people, and have experience with that i sorta gotta say the Xtian fundies arent so extreme to me. They dont GENERALLY marry at 13 or 14.

124 Bloodnok  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:43:41pm

re: #117 BatGuano

OK. I read it. What is the abuse?

I can't help you then.

125 Salamantis  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:44:17pm

re: #117 BatGuano

OK. I read it. What is the abuse?

Terrorizing 4 year olds is pouring the milk of human kindnes?

126 UberInfidel67  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:44:18pm

re: #110 Mr. Owl
See my #5.

127 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:44:28pm

re: #106 rightymouse

Agreed. Speaking for myself, if I had home schooled my children, they'd have been fluent in "Blazing Saddles", "Ghostbusters", and maybe "Big Trouble in Little China" and otherwise knuckle dragging mouth breathers.

128 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:44:30pm

re: #113 SpaceJesus

Well I never said it was, but unfortunately in America, the vast majority of religious fundamentalism does emanate from Evangelical Christian communities, societies and churches


Really? You have a linky for those stats?

129 father_of_10  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:45:26pm

This has nothing to do with creationism.

130 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:45:27pm

re: #115 Aviator

Just say something really nasty. He'll get in touch with you.

Ok. I've gathered that. I don't want to say anything nasty. I have a wonderful, amazing, paradigm changing suggestion to make. I want to know how to contact him without being sent to the cornfield. :-)

131 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:45:55pm

re: #109 reine.de.tout

Here you go again.
Children must be sent to school so that the teachers and appropriate state officials can rid them of the evil influence of their parents.

This is one case. There may be others.

But the vast vast majority of home-schooled kids live in loving homes with normal parents.

How come the vast majority of home-schooled kids are socially-stunted among other things? It's totally possible the parents have the best of intentions, but they are really doing their children an enormous disservice by denying them a normal upbringing.

132 dapperdave  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:46:03pm

re: #114 reine.de.tout

Ya, the jerk will probably live to be 100 and then go to hell.

133 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:46:21pm

re: #128 rightymouse

Really? You have a linky for those stats?

I was about to ask it for it's definition of "religious fundamentalism" ... but then I came to my senses.

*yawn*

134 Dustyvet  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:46:25pm

re: #122 pre-Boomer Marine brat

NOW! (Back in from getting supper in the microwave.)

How are you doing?!

Hey boomer hold up your right hand, now please fold down all your fingers but your pinkie. Now wiggle it like up and down...:)

Congratulations you have a new micro wave...:)

135 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:46:28pm

re: #117 BatGuano

OK. I read it. What is the abuse?

I read it too...it looks to me like a bunch of overbearing, manipulative kooks all mixed up in some whacky commune....the abuse seems to be mostly mental I guess....and the mid night push ups...I don't want to sound flip but it does not seem to be a whole lot here from a legal standpoint

136 Salamantis  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:46:35pm

re: #129 father_of_10

This has nothing to do with creationism.

And everything to do with cult brainwashing and control.

137 father_of_10  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:46:39pm

re: #131 SpaceJesus

How come the vast majority of home-schooled kids are socially-stunted among other things? It's totally possible the parents have the best of intentions, but they are really doing their children an enormous disservice by denying them a normal upbringing.

Linky?

138 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:46:46pm

re: #130 BatGuano

Ok. I've gathered that. I don't want to say anything nasty. I have a wonderful, amazing, paradigm changing suggestion to make. I want to know how to contact him without being sent to the cornfield. :-)

Look for the union label......I mean look up top left and click contact.

139 UberInfidel67  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:46:52pm

re: #132 dapperdave
Heaven doesn't want him and hell is afraid he'll take over.

140 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:47:06pm

re: #118 Alberta Oil Peon

How about the cult's "pastor" making suggestive remarks about the sexual seductiveness of cult members' children?

You OK with that?

Jonestown, here we come. Yee-haw!
/

what a stupid question to ask

141 Aviator  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:47:11pm

re: #130 BatGuano

Ok. I've gathered that. I don't want to say anything nasty. I have a wonderful, amazing, paradigm changing suggestion to make. I want to know how to contact him without being sent to the cornfield. :-)

Look at the top left of this page. You will see "Contact", click on that.

142 father_of_10  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:47:11pm

re: #136 Salamantis

And everything to do with cult brainwashing and control.

yup

143 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:47:17pm

re: #117 BatGuano

OK. I read it. What is the abuse?

It is not normal for a child to not be allowed to go to the bathroom.

It is not normal for a child to be woken up at 4 am to do pushups.

It is not normal for decent, loving fathers and grandparents to be cut off from children.

It is not normal to make sexual remarks about a child.

It is not normal for children to be afraid of their mother. Eleven year-olds are usually a little mouthy, and kind of twerpy. This is why we call them "immature." Because they are, by the technical definition of immature--not yet grown up.

If you can't understand this, something is wrong with you.

144 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:47:44pm

re: #124 Bloodnok

I won't call on you as recourse then. Thank s for the response.

145 brookly red  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:47:55pm

So what is the old cliche? ... the first 3 reports are always wrong?

I kinda think that the court should be above the media's reproach... but then again I don't trust courts. Well I don't trust media for that matter either... This might just take a while to sort out. I guess am am just not a trusting person. Let me vote "present"

146 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:48:39pm

re: #114 reine.de.tout

Can you believe Manson is now 74 years old?
Those murders were so chillingly strange, so frightening, it sure doesn't seem to me like it was 30 years ago.

Manson should convert to Islam and ask for a transfer to Gitmo.

He'll finally make parole

147 reine.de.tout  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:48:45pm

re: #131 SpaceJesus

How come the vast majority of home-schooled kids are socially-stunted among other things? It's totally possible the parents have the best of intentions, but they are really doing their children an enormous disservice by denying them a normal upbringing.

I have seen no evidence that that is true.
Please provide links to whatever studies you have that support your assertion.

148 nyc redneck  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:49:02pm

the mother wanted to cut the father off from all contact w/ their children.
cult members seek to do this. it is an us and them mentality.
she was incapable of making sound and positive decisions abt. their children's
welfare.
this was a custody battle that could have turned out very badly for those kids.
children never do well in cults.

149 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:49:11pm

re: #128 rightymouse

Really? You have a linky for those stats?


gee, ever heard of the KKK?

150 Macker  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:49:12pm

re: #114 reine.de.tout

DIE MOTHERFRAKKER DIE!

151 Zimriel  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:49:20pm

re: #127 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Agreed. Speaking for myself, if I had home schooled my children, they'd have been fluent in "Blazing Saddles", "Ghostbusters", and maybe "Big Trouble in Little China" and otherwise knuckle dragging mouth breathers.

LOL. If I had been taught the way I wanted to be taught, I'd have applied for a university palaeontology programme at age 8. History? Reading? Arithmetic? Who needs 'em when there are AWESOME DINOSAURS out there?

152 LGoPs  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:49:25pm

re: #88 BatGuano

Anyone who has not read the entire decision, cease and desist posting, otherwise we get a Tower of Babel posts; everyone not understanding everyone else. I am not a speed reader like most you.

Precisely why I'm not saying anything. I was misled the first time around when I heard about this, so.....twice shy.

153 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:49:27pm

re: #131 SpaceJesus

How come the vast majority of home-schooled kids are socially-stunted among other things? It's totally possible the parents have the best of intentions, but they are really doing their children an enormous disservice by denying them a normal upbringing.

Give us a link to at least one well-documented study regarding that.

154 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:49:38pm

After 69-Year Delay, WWII Veteran Gets High School Diploma

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

But the best part is:

hill deployed to Hawaii in January 1941. He was stationed on the destroyer USS Ward and was part of the crew that fired the country's first shots in the war, sinking a Japanese submarine as it tried to enter Pearl Harbor in the early morning on Dec. 7, 1941, the Star Tribune reported.

155 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:49:44pm

re: #131 SpaceJesus

How come the vast majority of home-schooled kids are socially-stunted among other things? It's totally possible the parents have the best of intentions, but they are really doing their children an enormous disservice by denying them a normal upbringing.

Link?

156 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:50:13pm

re: #131 SpaceJesus

How come the vast majority of home-schooled kids are socially-stunted among other things? It's totally possible the parents have the best of intentions, but they are really doing their children an enormous disservice by denying them a normal upbringing.

piss off

157 Salamantis  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:50:31pm

Are YOU in a cult? Eveluate your situation!

[Link: www.unc.edu...]

158 JCM  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:50:46pm

re: #153 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Give us a link to at least one well-documented study regarding that.

He's Jesus, he knows everything....
///////

159 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:51:02pm

re: #134 Dustyvet

Hey boomer hold up your right hand, now please fold down all your fingers but your pinkie. Now wiggle it like up and down...:)

Congratulations you have a new micro wave...:)

*pointing shotgun at monitor*
*cocking both barrels*
... uh ... wait a minute ... ... never mind

:D

160 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:51:29pm

re: #125 Salamantis

Terrorizing 4 year olds is pouring the milk of human kindnes?

Terrorizing children of any age is abominable. I'm out of computer paper so what line was that in the decision? have the decision in pdf and will have to switch from the decision to pdf.

161 Irenike  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:51:37pm

re: #131 SpaceJesus

How come the vast majority of home-schooled kids are socially-stunted among other things? It's totally possible the parents have the best of intentions, but they are really doing their children an enormous disservice by denying them a normal upbringing.

What does "socially stunted" mean? Do you personally know enough homeschooled kids to label the majority of them "socially stunted"?

162 reine.de.tout  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:51:44pm

re: #150 Macker

DIE MOTHERFRAKKER DIE!

Not me, I hope?

163 Cathypop  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:52:23pm

re: #139 UberInfidel67
I have no pity for this worthless piece of shit but he looks like a very old weak thing. Can't bring myself to call him a man or even a person.

164 alegrias  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:52:34pm

re: #119 Nevergiveup

YuP:
Obama administration special envoy Richard Holbooke was on the American International Group Inc. board of directors in early 2008 when the insurance company locked in the bonuses now stoking outrage across the U.S.

Holbrooke, a veteran diplomat who is now the administration's point man on Pakistan and Afghanistan, served on the board between 2001 and mid-2008. During that period, AIG undertook the aggressive investment strategies that led to a near-collapse and forced a multibillion-dollar federal bailout.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

No wonder he was so happy to hot foot it over to Afghanistan?

* * *
Clintonista Holbrooke took nearly $800,000 from AIG & helped drive it over the cliff! And his "spokesperson" who's taking the calls for Holbrooke is Tommy Vietor, a defense attorney, if not a criminal defense attorney.

Bwahahaha, Obama's democrats are all over this nightmare corrupt orgy.

165 brookly red  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:52:34pm

re: #149 SpaceJesus

gee, ever heard of the KKK?

I suppose I would need to add .org ?

166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:52:55pm

re: #158 JCM

No, he's Hatey McChristianson.

167 screaming_eagle  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:52:55pm

re: #131 SpaceJesus

How come the vast majority of home-schooled kids are socially-stunted among other things? It's totally possible the parents have the best of intentions, but they are really doing their children an enormous disservice by denying them a normal upbringing.

Normal would mean not like you.

168 reine.de.tout  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:53:11pm

re: #163 Cathypop

I have no pity for this worthless piece of shit but he looks like a very old weak thing. Can't bring myself to call him a man or even a person.

He was young and weak when he talked an entire group of people into those murders.

He is evil.

169 Mr. Owl  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:53:34pm

re: #126 UberInfidel67

i was thinking of something a little closer to home. The ever increasing "everyone's a winner" mentality, specifically. instead of lifting everyone up it pushes the best down into a miserable place where excellence is frowned upon.

170 JCM  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:53:34pm

re: #157 Salamantis

Are YOU in a cult? Eveluate your situation!

[Link: www.unc.edu...]

Good link.

171 WhiteRasta  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:53:35pm

re: #163 Cathypop

I wonder when the do-gooders and social workers will start calling for his parole?

172 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:53:56pm

re: #149 SpaceJesus

gee, ever heard of the KKK?

That is not a link.
It's not even a rational opinion -- the KKK isn't a church.
Provide a link to a well-documented study.

GAZE

173 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:53:56pm

re: #152 LGoPs

This is why I want to know how to contact Charles. I have an idea that might mitigate the problem of posting before you post.

174 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:53:57pm

re: #164 alegrias

* * *
Clintonista Holbrooke took nearly $800,000 from AIG & helped drive it over the cliff! And his "spokesperson" who's taking the calls for Holbrooke is Tommy Vietor, a defense attorney, if not a criminal defense attorney.

Bwahahaha, Obama's democrats are all over this nightmare corrupt orgy.

Chicago, Chicago my kinda town?

175 dapperdave  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:54:01pm

re: #139 UberInfidel67

Reminds me of an old Andrew Dice Clay clip, heaven didn't want and Satan kick him back to earth to be with his wife who had chronic pms.

176 reine.de.tout  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:54:15pm

re: #161 Irenike

What does "socially stunted" mean? Do you personally know enough homeschooled kids to label the majority of them "socially stunted"?

I'm beginning to think SpaceJesus may be speaking from personal experience.

177 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:54:34pm

re: #147 reine.de.tout

I have seen no evidence that that is true.
Please provide links to whatever studies you have that support your assertion.


I rely on good old empirical evidence of every single one I have ever met, lived with or worked with. They are socially retarded to the point where their basic communication skills, not to mention higher-level stuff like creativity and humor are completely absent. I'm not knocking them. I feel extremely sorry for them.

178 Shakey Jakey  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:55:10pm

re: #131 SpaceJesus

Had to "down ding" you
4 of my grandchildren are home schooled and they are not socially stunted. They are some of the most outgoing children I have ever met. I also have 3 more grandkids in public school and their is not a dimes worth of difference socially between all 7 of them.

179 brookly red  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:55:17pm

re: #168 reine.de.tout

He was young and weak when he talked an entire group of people into those murders.

He is evil.

he was young, & he is evil... 2 out of 3.

180 Cathypop  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:55:20pm

re: #168 reine.de.tout

He was young and weak when he talked an entire group of people into those murders.

He is evil.


I have never thought of Manson as weak. The people around him yes but not that creature.

181 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:55:24pm

re: #144 BatGuano

Resource. PIMF

182 reine.de.tout  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:55:29pm

re: #172 pre-Boomer Marine brat

That is not a link.
It's not even a rational opinion -- the KKK isn't a church.
Provide a link to a well-documented study.

GAZE

LOL!

183 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:55:30pm

re: #173 BatGuano

This is why I want to know how to contact Charles. I have an idea that might mitigate the problem of posting before you post.

just e mail him...up above on the left...contact in green

184 Catttt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:55:31pm

I just read an old bulletin board with former members making comments on how they were manipulated and why they left, and then I read this piece at a site called Moriel Ministries.

In a nutshell, Moriel Ministries' article boils the Sound Doctrine Church (SDC) and Pastor Tim Williams as positing that God's grace and obedience are one and the same. Therefore, to have God's grace, you must obey. Pastor Williams is the conduit, obviously, and you therefore must obey him for God's grace. Any Christian with a lick of sense knows this is flat wrong, and alarm bells should go off right there. The concept of the Holy Spirit and God's grace is just flat basic to Christianity, and you in essence must ignore Romans and Paul completely to believe it!

John 3:16: "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

Note John didn't add "and obeys all the rules all the time."

185 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:55:39pm

re: #177 SpaceJesus

I rely on good old empirical worthless anecdotal evidence of every single one I have ever met, lived with or worked with. They are socially retarded to the point where their basic communication skills, not to mention higher-level stuff like creativity and humor are completely absent. I'm not knocking them. I feel extremely sorry for them.

fixed for accuracy

186 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:55:41pm

re: #127 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Agreed. Speaking for myself, if I had home schooled my children, they'd have been fluent in "Blazing Saddles", "Ghostbusters", and maybe "Big Trouble in Little China" and otherwise knuckle dragging mouth breathers.

What? No 'Blues Brothers'? How about 'Liar, Liar?"? Teenlet can recite the dialogue verbatim.

Tonight, we're going to TRY and watch "Elizabeth" again. He's studying Queen Mary (the bloody one) right now in school. This movie is full of errors, but that's my job to help him sort out fact from fiction, just like we did watching "Braveheart". I'm such a stinker.

187 JCM  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:56:07pm

re: #177 SpaceJesus

I rely on good old empirical evidence of every single one I have ever met, lived with or worked with. They are socially retarded to the point where their basic communication skills, not to mention higher-level stuff like creativity and humor are completely absent. I'm not knocking them. I feel extremely sorry for them.

All one of them I take it.

188 Salamantis  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:56:12pm

re: #160 BatGuano

Terrorizing children of any age is abominable. I'm out of computer paper so what line was that in the decision? have the decision in pdf and will have to switch from the decision to pdf.

[Link: www.newsobserver.com...]

Check items 15, 22, 23, 28, 29, 30, and 32,

189 Aviator  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:56:29pm

re: #131 SpaceJesus

How come the vast majority of home-schooled kids are socially-stunted among other things? It's totally possible the parents have the best of intentions, but they are really doing their children an enormous disservice by denying them a normal upbringing.

Were you home-schooled?

190 WhiteRasta  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:56:33pm

re: #177 SpaceJesus

Oh, fer crying out loud! What nonsense you speak.

191 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:56:56pm

How do you spell STUPID and F-CKED?

MIAMI — A Miami television station and newspaper are reporting that blood tests show that Cleveland Browns wide receiver Donte' Stallworth was driving drunk when he fatally struck a pedestrian last weekend.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Does stupidity seem to be running in NFL wide receivers?

192 reine.de.tout  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:56:57pm

re: #177 SpaceJesus

I rely on good old empirical evidence of every single one I have ever met, lived with or worked with. They are socially retarded to the point where their basic communication skills, not to mention higher-level stuff like creativity and humor are completely absent. I'm not knocking them. I feel extremely sorry for them.

Space - have you ever considered the possibility that maybe this is their reaction to YOU?

193 screaming_eagle  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:57:03pm

re: #177 SpaceJesus

I rely on good old empirical evidence of every single one I have ever met, lived with or worked with. They are socially retarded to the point where their basic communication skills, not to mention higher-level stuff like creativity and humor are completely absent. I'm not knocking them. I feel extremely sorry for them.

Homeschooling isn't the cause of that. No social contact is. Use some common sense. Dumbass.

194 ConservatismNow!  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:57:07pm

re: #94 goddessoftheclassroom

Heya Goddess!

This looks familiar...

195 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:57:28pm

re: #141 Aviator

thank you.

196 JCM  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:57:42pm

re: #186 rightymouse

What? No 'Blues Brothers'? How about 'Liar, Liar?"? Teenlet can recite the dialogue verbatim.

Tonight, we're going to TRY and watch "Elizabeth" again. He's studying Queen Mary (the bloody one) right now in school. This movie is full of errors, but that's my job to help him sort out fact from fiction, just like we did watching "Braveheart". I'm such a stinker.

What? Movies aren't historically accurate?

You mean John Wayne didn't save the old west and invade Normandy himself?

This turns my whole world view upside down!

//

197 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:57:44pm

Whenever I want to definitively prove a point, I always throw in an anecdote. That's definitive.

198 Cathypop  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:57:56pm

re: #186 rightymouse

What? No 'Blues Brothers'? How about 'Liar, Liar?"? Teenlet can recite the dialogue verbatim.

Tonight, we're going to TRY and watch "Elizabeth" again. He's studying Queen Mary (the bloody one) right now in school. This movie is full of errors, but that's my job to help him sort out fact from fiction, just like we did watching "Braveheart". I'm such a stinker.

And lots of Warner Brothers Cartoons. My Favorite!

199 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:58:08pm

re: #177 SpaceJesus

I rely on good old empirical evidence of every single one I have ever met, lived with or worked with.

How many have you met, lived with or worked with?

Give us either a precise number, or a +/- 10% estimate.

GAZE
/you can't do it, asshole

200 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:58:08pm

Spacejesus if you played Russian roulette and survived, would your good old fashioned empirical evidence tell you that it was a safe thing to do ?

201 ConservatismNow!  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:58:11pm

re: #166 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

No, he's Hatey McChristianson.

I admit it. I laughed.

202 UberInfidel67  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:58:12pm

re: #191 Nevergiveup
yes

203 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:58:25pm

re: #161 Irenike

What does "socially stunted" mean? Do you personally know enough homeschooled kids to label the majority of them "socially stunted"?


Yes, and every single person my own age agrees with this. It's pretty much common knowledge.

204 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:58:43pm

honestly I don't know why I even waste the keystrokes on that douchebag.

done

205 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:58:45pm

re: #158 JCM

He's Jesus, he knows everything....
///////

Well then...

NOTE: I'm intensely devout, but I do have a sense of humor. I mean no disrespect or blasphemy.

206 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:59:06pm

re: #196 JCM

What? Movies aren't historically accurate?

You mean John Wayne didn't save the old west and invade Normandy himself?

This turns my whole world view upside down!

//

You forgot he also saved Iwo Jima?

207 JCM  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:59:22pm

re: #199 pre-Boomer Marine brat

How many have you met, lived with or worked with?

Give us either a precise number, or a +/- 10% estimate.

GAZE
/you can't do it, asshole

Himself.......

208 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:59:31pm

re: #188 Salamantis

[Link: www.newsobserver.com...]

Check items 15, 22, 23, 28, 29, 30, and 32,

I just hope she can't beat this rap in court...the whole jist of my querry...doubletalk take take you a long way...I can't understand why Social Services or whoever is not involved

209 ConservatismNow!  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:59:32pm

re: #206 Nevergiveup

But he died in the process.

210 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:59:40pm

re: #149 SpaceJesus

gee, ever heard of the KKK?

You're kidding, right? Was that supposed to be a cogent answer? If so, did you know that most KKK members were southern democrats?

211 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:59:41pm

re: #177 SpaceJesus

I rely on good old empirical evidence of every single one I have ever met, lived with or worked with. They are socially retarded to the point where their basic communication skills, not to mention higher-level stuff like creativity and humor are completely absent. I'm not knocking them. I feel extremely sorry for them.

Not wanting to talk to you, and not finding you funny are not necessarily an indication that someone else has a problem.

212 screaming_eagle  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:59:49pm

re: #200 Shug

Spacejesus if you played Russian roulette and survived, would your good old fashioned empirical evidence tell you that it was a safe thing to do ?

Ahhh. That's worth a thousand updings!

213 funky chicken  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 4:59:58pm

re: #143 EmmmieG

It is not normal for a child to not be allowed to go to the bathroom.

It is not normal for a child to be woken up at 4 am to do pushups.

It is not normal for decent, loving fathers and grandparents to be cut off from children.

It is not normal to make sexual remarks about a child.

It is not normal for children to be afraid of their mother. Eleven year-olds are usually a little mouthy, and kind of twerpy. This is why we call them "immature." Because they are, by the technical definition of immature--not yet grown up.

If you can't understand this, something is wrong with you.

how could anybody disagree with this?

I really feel sad for this father, who has watched helplessly while his ex-wife dragged her kids into this situation for 3 years now. I can't even imagine...

214 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:00:13pm

re: #28 Last Mohican

I confess that I didn't read the initial report, the one that tried to make it look like the kids were being taken away from the mom because she was teaching them creationism. So where did that story come from? Who was trying to spin it that way?

My guess is someone sympathetic to the Sound Doctrine folks and/or the mother...either that or it's simply the standard sloppy MFMSM reporting.

215 Dustyvet  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:00:15pm

re: #196 JCM

What? Movies aren't historically accurate?

You mean John Wayne didn't save the old west and invade Normandy himself?

This turns my whole world view upside down!

//

"Well gather your mongol hoards...wa ha"

John Wayne as Ghengis Khan

216 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:00:17pm

re: #197 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Whenever I want to definitively prove a point, I always throw in an anecdote. That's definitive.

and quote 'what's his name'

217 screaming_eagle  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:00:22pm

re: #203 SpaceJesus

Yes, and every single person my own age agrees with this. It's pretty much common knowledge.

that is 8?

218 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:00:41pm

re: #209 ConservatismNow!

But he died in the process.

The good always die young.

219 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:00:58pm

home-schooled kids are weird as hell, and the only way to help them develop into functioning adults is to get them out of there as soon as possible.

220 brookly red  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:01:00pm

re: #191 Nevergiveup

How do you spell STUPID and F-CKED?

MIAMI — A Miami television station and newspaper are reporting that blood tests show that Cleveland Browns wide receiver Donte' Stallworth was driving drunk when he fatally struck a pedestrian last weekend.

[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Does stupidity seem to be running in NFL wide receivers?

well if arrogance is stupid, then yes. 15 years should fix the arrogance, the stupidity well we shall see.

221 Catttt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:01:07pm

re: #177 SpaceJesus

I rely on good old empirical evidence of every single one I have ever met, lived with or worked with. They are socially retarded to the point where their basic communication skills, not to mention higher-level stuff like creativity and humor are completely absent. I'm not knocking them. I feel extremely sorry for them.

In case you don't realize it, allow me to point out that you NEVER have any evidence to support your assertions.

How do you know so many homeschooled people, and how do you know people are homeschooled? Do you go up, stick out your hand, and say, "Hi! I'm SJ! Were you homeschooled? If so, let me follow you around to see if you are socially inept, k?"

222 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:01:13pm

re: #60 BatGuano

I' have been here since January 17, 2009. How does one contact Charles? I don't know?

You don't. Charles contacts you.

/que creepy theremin music

223 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:01:30pm

re: #210 rightymouse

You're kidding, right? Was that supposed to be a cogent answer? If so, did you know that most KKK members were southern democrats?


uh, and also Christian Evangelicals?

224 Shakey Jakey  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:01:36pm

re: #203 SpaceJesus

I would like to see a link where every single person your age agrees with you. your either extremely stupid or 3 years old

225 JCM  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:01:37pm

re: #205 goddessoftheclassroom

Well then...

NOTE: I'm intensely devout, but I do have a sense of humor. I mean no disrespect or blasphemy.

LOL!

226 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:02:22pm

re: #182 reine.de.tout

LOL!

My ex was getting her Masters of Ed in mental retardation while we were dating. She was in my apartment one evening, waiting while I got ready for us to go out. My (sophmore/sophmoric) roommate was spouting off generalizations about retardates. She asked him ... "How many retardates have you known?"

He replied ... "Two."

227 Bloodnok  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:02:34pm

re: #224 Shakey Jakey

I would like to see a link where every single person your age agrees with you. your either extremely stupid or 3 years old

Those are not mutually exclusive.

228 Ning the Merciless  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:02:42pm

Sounds like a kooky cult. How long before we have another Jonestown or Waco?

229 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:02:42pm

thread whore....GAZE only works if you make it work

230 JCM  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:03:08pm

Gotta run.....

231 LGoPs  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:03:12pm

re: #177 SpaceJesus

I rely on good old empirical evidence of every single one I have ever met, lived with or worked with. They are socially retarded to the point where their basic communication skills, not to mention higher-level stuff like creativity and humor are completely absent. I'm not knocking them. I feel extremely sorry for them.

Shit, I just figured it out. You are confusing home schooled with Liberals/Progressives.

232 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:03:49pm

re: #205 goddessoftheclassroom

You missed a "who" and "whom" argument today. Kept hoping you'd show up.

233 Cathypop  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:03:55pm

re: #231 LGoPs

Shit, I just figured it out. You are confusing home schooled with Liberals/Progressives.


Exactly!

234 Zimriel  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:04:03pm

I wonder if Charles can create a feature by which comments are only enabled if you download the relevant PDF...

This Sound Doctrine church demands its members call Tim Williams variants of "mom" and "dad". Williams commented about the four year old: "she's going to grow up using her looks to seduce men". And, that the seven year old might try to seduce Williams himself. This is a disgusting creature.

Williams needs to be in prison already.

235 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:04:33pm

Coach K Disses Obama.

Responding to an Associated Press reporter's question about Barack Obama picking against Duke in his much-hyped tournament picks which were broadcast on ESPN today, Krzyzewski said:

"Somebody said that we're not in President Obama's Final Four, and as much as I respect what he's doing, really, the economy is something that he should focus on, probably more than the brackets."

heh

236 dapperdave  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:04:59pm

re: #210 rightymouse

Space Jesus you are the glittered crowned jewel of colossal ignorance!

237 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:05:17pm

re: #177 SpaceJesus

I rely on good old empirical evidence of every single one I have ever met, lived with or worked with. They are socially retarded to the point where their basic communication skills, not to mention higher-level stuff like creativity and humor are completely absent. I'm not knocking them. I feel extremely sorry for them.


You're knocking your communication skills, creativity and humor out of the park. Not.

Sorry.

238 midwestgak  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:05:35pm

re: #203 SpaceJesus

Yes, and every single person my own age agrees with this. It's pretty much common knowledge.

You shouldn't take seriously the voices/messages which seep into your porous brain matter. BTW, 1 + 1 = 2 is common knowledge. I don't need a linky for common knowledge.

239 brookly red  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:05:36pm

re: #223 SpaceJesus

uh, and also Christian Evangelicals?

Sooo does jesus have a problem with Evangelicals? Not that I care but it is an interesting issue.

240 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:06:01pm

re: #221 Catttt

In case you don't realize it, allow me to point out that you NEVER have any evidence to support your assertions.

How do you know so many homeschooled people, and how do you know people are homeschooled? Do you go up, stick out your hand, and say, "Hi! I'm SJ! Were you homeschooled? If so, let me follow you around to see if you are socially inept, k?"


Gee, I dunno. Maybe I had neighbors growing up? maybe I had to work with one for 6 months? maybe one of my roommates in undergrad was one? perhaps I know of other families?

241 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:06:03pm

re: #203 SpaceJesus

every single person my own age agrees with this

Do you realize how asinine that statement is?
You haven't a clue, do you?

/TWIT

242 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:06:05pm

re: #232 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

You missed a "who" and "whom" argument today. Kept hoping you'd show up.

Oh, drat!

In case anyone cares, "who" is the nominative case (used for subjects and predicate nominatives) and "whom" is the objective case (used as the direct or indirect object of the sentence, object of the preposition, etc.)

243 Zimriel  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:06:07pm

re: #219 SpaceJesus

home-schooled kids are weird as hell, and the only way to help them develop into functioning adults is to get them out of there as soon as possible.

SpaceJesus, kindly take your gamey buttocks elsewhere.

244 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:06:08pm

I'm backing out this child abuse angle. Thank you for you responses.

245 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:06:50pm

re: #235 Shug

Coach K Disses Obama.

heh

He also said he respected what Obama was trying to do? But then again he coached at West Point and I think ( I may be wrong but I don't think so ) that one of his daughters married a West Point Grad so I am not sure where he really stands/

246 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:06:59pm

re: #239 brookly red

Sooo does jesus have a problem with Evangelicals? Not that I care but it is an interesting issue.

I have a big problem with the ones who are radical and violent, like I said way up there earlier.

247 pink freud  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:07:09pm

re: #131 SpaceJesus

How come the vast majority of home-schooled kids are socially-stunted among other things? It's totally possible the parents have the best of intentions, but they are really doing their children an enormous disservice by denying them a normal upbringing.

Just my 2 cents, but ...

The one-on-one attention given to a child during the home schooling process, in the long run, far benefits a child in establishing and normalizing socializing skills.

When I think of socially stunted kids, I think of kids who are lost in the masses, kids who receive no one-on-one attention, kids who are at the mercy of bullies and educator indoctrination, and kids who feel there is nothing special about themselves.

Unfortunately, many of our public schools turn out kids with social deficits - or even worse - kids who have learned some god-awful behaviors from those very schools.

Just for fun, I'll take the relativistic position here and ask you, "What exactly is "normal"? In education today, Noam Chompsky, Paolo Frierre, and Howard Zinn assist in setting the norm. No thanks.

I find most of your posts repellant, spacejesus, but on this one especially, I think you are wrong.

248 reine.de.tout  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:07:15pm

re: #226 pre-Boomer Marine brat

My ex was getting her Masters of Ed in mental retardation while we were dating. She was in my apartment one evening, waiting while I got ready for us to go out. My (sophmore/sophmoric) roommate was spouting off generalizations about retardates. She asked him ... "How many retardates have you known?"

He replied ... "Two."

I think SpaceJesus really believes that kids need to be in school so that the state education system can rid kids of their parents' evil influence.

He feels so very strongly about that - I can't help but wonder why. Personal experience? Himself or his own kids?

249 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:07:34pm

re: #205 goddessoftheclassroom

Well then...

NOTE: I'm intensely devout, but I do have a sense of humor. I mean no disrespect or blasphemy.

AAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHH!
*foam at the mouth*

/(-:

250 Catttt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:08:04pm

re: #240 SpaceJesus

Gee, I dunno. Maybe I had neighbors growing up? maybe I had to work with one for 6 months? maybe one of my roommates in undergrad was one? perhaps I know of other families?

Liar liar pants on fire. I don't think you know anyone.

251 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:08:15pm

re: #207 JCM

Himself.......

*snicker* !

252 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:08:27pm

re: #245 Nevergiveup

He also said he respected what Obama was trying to do? But then again he coached at West Point and I think ( I may be wrong but I don't think so ) that one of his daughters married a West Point Grad so I am not sure where he really stands/

who knows. says he hosted a fundraiser for Liddy Dole back in 2002.

all that says to me is he has lousy taste in politicians.

no sweet 16 for you!

253 screaming_eagle  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:08:35pm

re: #240 SpaceJesus

Gee, I dunno. Maybe I had neighbors growing up? maybe I had to work with one for 6 months? maybe one of my roommates in undergrad was one? perhaps I know of other families?

Hello there, Barney Fwank. I didn't realize you where a member here.

254 Karagush  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:08:41pm

re: #203 SpaceJesus

Yes, and every single person my own age agrees with this. It's pretty much common knowledge.

ooooo Everybody says! Its common knowledge!

thats not an argument.
The same could as accurately be said about the public school system. Everyone knows its broken. All the kids that go to public schools are under served.

my personal experience:
I took an abused child with asberger's syndrome, ADD ADHD and Brain damage, and some residual deafness issues pretty much a wild animal, and turned her into a reliable little person who works as a day spa receptionist, has a license to do sports therapy massage, is an awesome Vet tech to me on my horse breeding farm and who is universally loved by just about everyone she meets. People dont say that to me to make me feel good, they say it in sheer awe at the enormous change in the girl.

Shes now getting ready to go to school to learn how to do special effects costume design. Shes 20. When she came to my home she was 14 and could barely read, got along with nobody, and had bare rudimentary writing and math skills. Being enrolled in public school certainly hadn't done her any good.

255 razorbacker  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:09:13pm

re: #221 Catttt

I didn't think that I personally knew anyone who had home-schooled their kids. My wife said, 'Yes, you do. Doug and his wife home-schooled all three of their boys.'

SpaceJesus is right. All three of these boys came to bad ends. They all earned National Merit honors. One graduated Rice, and now is in law school. So he's pretty much a lost cause, I guess. One is on the Dean's List (or whatever they call it there) in Vanderbilt. Another bust, 'cause we all know those brainiacs are just itchin' to climb a clock tower and start blasting away. The third, poor sod, is worst of all. He's started Texas Tech, and will forevermore be tarred with the curse of being a Red Raider. Even the name sounds evil.

Yep, Spacejesus is right. Might as well not argue with him.

256 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:09:41pm

re: #219 SpaceJesus

home-schooled kids are weird as hell, and the only way to help them develop into functioning adults is to get them out of there as soon as possible.

Links!
Proof!

257 father_of_10  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:09:45pm

re: #177 SpaceJesus

I rely on good old empirical evidence of every single one I have ever met, lived with or worked with. They are socially retarded to the point where their basic communication skills, not to mention higher-level stuff like creativity and humor are completely absent. I'm not knocking them. I feel extremely sorry for them.

Evidently you haven't hung around many recent high school grads recently! LOL!

258 midwestgak  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:09:55pm

re: #240 SpaceJesus

Gee, I dunno. Maybe I had neighbors growing up? maybe I had to work with one for 6 months? maybe one of my roommates in undergrad was one? perhaps I know of other families?

um, maybe and perhaps. Now I SEE?/

259 debutaunt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:10:01pm

re: #250 Catttt

Liar liar pants on fire. I don't think you know anyone.

Just the imaginary home-schooled annoying kids.

260 Dustyvet  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:10:11pm

re: #249 pre-Boomer Marine brat

AAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHH!
*foam at the mouth*

/(-:

Use the shot gun lad...:)

261 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:10:14pm

Never allow yourself to get into an argument with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience

262 Catttt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:10:26pm

re: #203 SpaceJesus

Yes, and every single person my own age agrees with this. It's pretty much common knowledge.

If all your friends ran in front of a moving bus, would you do it too?

Does you mom know you are using her computer?

263 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:10:31pm

re: #93 SpaceJesus

I feel terrible for the thousands of children across America who are held hostage on a daily basis because of their parents' commitment to fundamentalist, intolerant, and radical religious zeal. This abuse must end.

If you're referring to homeschoolers in general, then I have a few choice words for you:

Go eat a big bag of d**ks....

264 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:10:31pm

re: #252 Shug

who knows. says he hosted a fundraiser for Liddy Dole back in 2002.

all that says to me is he has lousy taste in politicians.

no sweet 16 for you!

Well I'd kinda guess he is basically on our side then.

265 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:10:51pm

re: #242 goddessoftheclassroom

Wasn't the argument. It was..."whom is archaic and no longer necessary in the English language."

266 brookly red  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:10:51pm

re: #246 SpaceJesus

I have a big problem with the ones who are radical and violent, like I said way up there earlier.

OK, well violent is a pretty black or white, yes or no kinda position. Care to define radical? (just for the record)

267 Racer X  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:11:17pm

All of the SpaceJesus' that I have known, personally, that is to say, known by me personally, in this life and all previous ones, were delusional crackheads with a lack of social skills, who generalize way to much. Every single one.

268 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:11:23pm

re: #265 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wasn't the argument. It was..."whom is archaic and no longer necessary in the English language."

ACK! Not as long as I have breath in my body!

269 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:11:24pm

re: #234 Zimriel

MY idea that Is that a thread is posted and an interval of time is allowed before anything can be posted. Give every one a chance to read the thread before anyone can post. The way it is now, there is a new thread, you read the material, and you are 120 comments in the hole. Wanna read all the comments? You are 240 comments behind.

270 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:11:25pm

re: #259 debutaunt

Just the imaginary home-schooled annoying kids.

the whole argument is contrived and everyone feeds his ego...just what he wants...I can't believe people here fall for it...he doesn't give a shit what he's saying

271 father_of_10  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:11:26pm

re: #203 SpaceJesus

Yes, and every single person my own age agrees with this. It's pretty much common knowledge.

What age is that? 3?

272 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:11:55pm

Thanks Mandy

273 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:12:02pm

re: #261 Shug

Never allow yourself to get into an argument with an idiot. They bring you down to their level and beat you with experience

an oldie but goldie....

274 Bloodnok  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:12:08pm

re: #265 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wasn't the argument. It was..."whom is archaic and no longer necessary in the English language."

Wherefore did someone say that?

275 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:12:13pm

Wow, sorry for being on the side of these poor kids. I think the real reason parents do this is for control purposes, and they know they are depriving their children of essential communication, interaction, and confidence skills in order to make them forever dependent on them. It's a control-freak situation in sheep's clothing, and comes dangerously close to domestic abuse.

Sorry for being on the side of the kids, and not their over-bearing and jaded parents.

276 phoenixgirl  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:12:27pm

the dad needs to get sole custody of these children. the mom is unfortunately nuts, and until she becomes un-nuts she should have no contact with them at all. this isn't about home schooling or creationism it's about someone who naively got caught up in a "cult" and is currently not in possession of her marbles. i hope she gets better and i hope she hasn't damaged her children permanently. these people need our prayers and support.

277 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:12:33pm

re: #240 SpaceJesus

Gee, I dunno. Maybe I had neighbors growing up? maybe I had to work with one for 6 months? maybe one of my roommates in undergrad was one? perhaps I know of other families?

Maybe ... maybe ... maybe ... perhaps.
Asshole, you just admitted that you DO NOT KNOW ANY!
GAZE
FOAD!

278 Zimriel  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:12:45pm

I'm beginning to think Charles keeps SpaceJesus around solely to test the lower limits of the karma system.

279 screaming_eagle  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:12:53pm

re: #267 Racer X

All of the SpaceJesus' that I have known, personally, that is to say, known by me personally, in this life and all previous ones, were delusional crackheads with a lack of social skills, who generalize way to much. Every single one.

WoW. Same thing here. Must be something to it.

280 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:13:35pm
281 jaunte  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:13:38pm

re: #275 SpaceJesus

It's quite possible that you are generalizing from a too-small sample.
.

282 Dustyvet  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:13:41pm

The English Teacher felt odd after being fired: it was post-grammatic stress disorder.

283 ConservatismNow!  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:13:53pm

Congratulation Lizards. You guys got trolled. SpaceJesus has you guys hook, line, and sinker. He gave away the trolling when he started talking about empirical evidence. I'd give it a 7/10. The "statements of fact" got even more ridiculous as the thread went on.

284 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:14:06pm

re: #157 Salamantis

Are YOU in a cult? Eveluate your situation!

[Link: www.unc.edu...]

Cool. I am gonna email that to a friend who not too long ago left what he thought might be a christian cult.

285 Catttt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:14:15pm

re: #242 goddessoftheclassroom

Oh, drat!

In case anyone cares, "who" is the nominative case (used for subjects and predicate nominatives) and "whom" is the objective case (used as the direct or indirect object of the sentence, object of the preposition, etc.)

I hate it when people don't know that. Glad I missed it - glad you were there.

286 screaming_eagle  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:14:26pm

re: #275 SpaceJesus

Wow, sorry for being on the side of these poor kids. I think the real reason parents do this is for control purposes, and they know they are depriving their children of essential communication, interaction, and confidence skills in order to make them forever dependent on them. It's a control-freak situation in sheep's clothing, and comes dangerously close to domestic abuse.

Sorry for being on the side of the kids, and not their over-bearing and jaded parents.

What a fucking moron. Not to provide better education but for control.

You were dropped on your head as a baby weren't you?

287 jaunte  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:14:27pm

Charles, thanks for doing the follow-up on this story.

288 pink freud  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:14:38pm

re: #254 Karagush

Wow. Talk about your success stories!

Congratulations to you and her for beating the odds. Wow.

289 Bloodnok  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:14:40pm

re: #283 ConservatismNow!

Congratulation Lizards. You guys got trolled. SpaceJesus has you guys hook, line, and sinker. He gave away the trolling when he started talking about empirical evidence. I'd give it a 7/10. The "statements of fact" got even more ridiculous as the thread went on.

Prick-Trolled?

290 razorbacker  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:14:46pm

New UK work visa program working fine

A Christian musician and a team of missionaries from the United States were recently denied entry into the United Kingdom under new immigration rules that require religious workers to obtain a visa.

Christian singer Don Francisco arrived at Heathrow Airport on March 2 and was detained, fingerprinted and escorted onto a flight back to the U.S.

"I felt like they were looking for reason to keep me out," Francisco said.

Immigration officials said he lacked the proper paperwork.

"My main concern is that this one misinterpretation and misapplication of immigration law will result in my being unable to return to the U.K. in the future," Francisco added.

Missionaries Deported

The previous day, a Master's Commission team from Arkansas was denied entrance into Scotland. They would have volunteered in soup kitchens with Assemblies of God churches in Edinburgh.

I don't blame them a bit. Never know when some Christian is going to start bombing train stations or chopping heads. And we see how well it is working at keeping out radical musselmen. Well, if there were such a thing, that is.

291 lawhawk  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:14:49pm

I'm shocked that the media got the reporting on this wrong. That they could have gotten the plaintiff confused with the defendant is particularly galling.

That said, divorce cases are particularly depressing for all concerned, particularly the children. They're at the heart of this tug of war between the parents. Divorcing parents sometimes treat the kids as pawns in a power play. They'll do it with the china (the one that both hate because some relative gave 'em the most disgustingly out of date floral pattern), so they will do so with the kids.

Here, the judge faced a tough decision since the kids appeared to be well adjusted and thriving in a homeschooling situation, but there were serious concerns from the mother's family and friends over her involvment in the Sound Doctrine Church and the affect it may be having on the mom and the kids. That became the key for the judge to find that the kids were to attend public school.

I think that those proponents of homeschooling may have overreached on castigating the judge on this. If the mother chooses to contest this and it goes up on appeal, the press will focus on the most salacious details - the church and the homeschooling, all while ignoring what is in the best interests of the children. That remains and should be the key here.

292 dapperdave  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:14:57pm

re: #275 SpaceJesus

Gee your right! I prefer kids to be out of control, much better that way.///

293 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:14:58pm

re: #281 jaunte

It's quite possible that you are generalizing from a too-small sample.
.


That's what I kept telling all my girlfriends growing up and....ha....nevermind.

294 reine.de.tout  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:15:18pm

re: #281 jaunte

It's quite possible that you are generalizing from a too-small sample.
.

Himself?

295 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:15:35pm

another islamic "scholar" checks in ...

[Link: www.ejpress.org...]

given the fact that this was done in the presence of a concentration camp survivor, it really makes me want to punch that motherfu*ker right in the face.

296 Racer X  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:15:37pm

SJ,

I jest. You clearly have issues you may want to deal with. I suggest a visit to a decent therapist.

Sincerely,
RX

297 jaunte  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:15:50pm

re: #294 reine.de.tout

"Le poll c'est moi!"

298 Catttt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:15:52pm

re: #265 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wasn't the argument. It was..."whom is archaic and no longer necessary in the English language."

Passive voice takes the subjective case.

299 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:16:20pm

re: #196 JCM

What? Movies aren't historically accurate?

You mean John Wayne didn't save the old west and invade Normandy himself?

This turns my whole world view upside down!

//

Every time I watch one of Hollywood's 'historical' movies, I wind up cringing. Even HBO's 'John Adams' series, which was actually well done, had so many factual errors in it I wanted to cry. History is wonderful by itself that I'm not quite sure why they feel compelled to change or embellish the facts.

300 Catttt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:16:24pm

re: #298 Catttt

Passive voice takes the subjective case.

Put whom in quotations. :D

301 The Shadow Do  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:16:47pm

re: #219 SpaceJesus

home-schooled kids are weird as hell, and the only way to help them develop into functioning adults is to get them out of there as soon as possible.

SpaceSpud, you really have no idea what you are talking about do you, kid?
Regular bleeding heart you are. Touching the sympathy you profess to feel for poor, "retarded" home schoolers.

Trenche de vie: Spud ascends about noon from the basement to find mom has left him his favorite poptarts for breakfast, followed by several rousing hours with his Playstation; he then comes here with nose in air (finger inserted) to define "normal" for the rest of us

302 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:16:51pm

re: #268 goddessoftheclassroom

I'll go find it for you. You can note the name, and politely bring up next time you see them....

NukeAtomrod 3/19/09 10:32:22 am reply quote

No one uses "whom" any more. It's archaic. Just let it go.


Runs down the hallway, laughing maniacally!

303 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:17:05pm

re: #295 _RememberTonyC

another islamic "scholar" checks in ...

[Link: www.ejpress.org...]

given the fact that this was done in the presence of a concentration camp survivor, it really makes me want to punch that motherfu*ker right in the face.


that same teacher probably hypes the so-called Holocaust in Gaza to his students.

sickening

304 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:17:16pm

re: #247 pink freud

Just my 2 cents, but ...

The one-on-one attention given to a child during the home schooling process, in the long run, far benefits a child in establishing and normalizing socializing skills.

When I think of socially stunted kids, I think of kids who are lost in the masses, kids who receive no one-on-one attention, kids who are at the mercy of bullies and educator indoctrination, and kids who feel there is nothing special about themselves.

Unfortunately, many of our public schools turn out kids with social deficits - or even worse - kids who have learned some god-awful behaviors from those very schools.

Just for fun, I'll take the relativistic position here and ask you, "What exactly is "normal"? In education today, Noam Chompsky, Paolo Frierre, and Howard Zinn assist in setting the norm. No thanks.

I find most of your posts repellant, spacejesus, but on this one especially, I think you are wrong.


As a linguist, I'm going to have to call you an idiot for knocking Chomsky, I may not agree with his historical revisionism or his politics but there is plenty to learn from his academic work.

Anyway, kids who don't think there is anything special about themselves are kids who are probably neglected at home or have some sort of clinical disorder or chemical imbalance etc.

Also, you cannot possibly develop peer to peer communication skills if the person who is "overseeing" you the whole day is your parent. Not only that, but you don't gain the communication skills you need in dealing with other adults either. That sort of isolation is what leads these poor kids to not be able to handle even basic social situations in the future. It's absolutely horrible.

305 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:17:44pm

re: #303 Shug

that same teacher probably hypes the so-called Holocaust in Gaza to his students.

sickening

The Gaza "Holocaust" is the one that never happened.

306 father_of_10  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:17:49pm

I think the only way to bet over 800 negative karma is to try really hard. so, spacejesus actually is a very successful LGF contributor!

307 father_of_10  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:18:08pm

re: #306 father_of_10

I think the only way to bet over 800 negative karma is to try really hard. so, spacejesus actually is a very successful LGF contributor!

bet=get pimf

308 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:18:26pm

re: #304 SpaceJesus

As a linguist, I'm going to have to call you an idiot for knocking Chomsky, I may not agree with his historical revisionism or his politics but there is plenty to learn from his academic work.

Anyway, kids who don't think there is anything special about themselves are kids who are probably neglected at home or have some sort of clinical disorder or chemical imbalance etc.

Also, you cannot possibly develop peer to peer communication skills if the person who is "overseeing" you the whole day is your parent. Not only that, but you don't gain the communication skills you need in dealing with other adults either. That sort of isolation is what leads these poor kids to not be able to handle even basic social situations in the future. It's absolutely horrible.

You are a cunning linguist.

309 Dustyvet  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:18:27pm

re: #299 rightymouse

Every time I watch one of Hollywood's 'historical' movies, I wind up cringing. Even HBO's 'John Adams' series, which was actually well done, had so many factual errors in it I wanted to cry. History is wonderful by itself that I'm not quite sure why they feel compelled to change or embellish the facts.

The first battle in the movie Braveheart was Stirling Bridge...Mel Gibson just sort of over looked that he forgot to put the bridge in.

310 doppelganglander  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:18:56pm

I'm very late to the party, but I wanted to comment since I vigorously defended homeschooling on the original thread. Clearly, with the additional information we now have, this is a horse of a different color. These kids will certainly benefit from their father's involvement to counteract mom's, shall we say, extreme views. And in this case, public school is probably the better choice.

311 LGoPs  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:18:56pm

re: #219 SpaceJesus

home-schooled kids are weird as hell, and the only way to help them develop into functioning adults is to get them out of there as soon as possible.

re: #177 SpaceJesus

I rely on good old empirical evidence of every single one I have ever met, lived with or worked with. They are socially retarded to the point where their basic communication skills, not to mention higher-level stuff like creativity and humor are completely absent. I'm not knocking them. I feel extremely sorry for them.

I'd love to see some of that good ol' empirical evidence to back up your assertion about home schooled kids being wierd.......
And oh, btw, the correct spelling around these parts is wierod.

312 ConservatismNow!  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:19:17pm

re: #308 Alouette

You are a cunning linguist.

I want to upding you for that, but I also want to down ding you because you said it before I could.

313 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:19:18pm

re: #309 Dustyvet

The first battle in the movie Braveheart was Stirling Bridge...Mel Gibson just sort of over looked that he forgot to put the bridge in.

A bridge to far?

314 jaunte  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:19:19pm

re: #304 SpaceJesus

Also, you cannot possibly develop peer to peer communication skills if the person who is "overseeing" you the whole day is your parent. Not only that, but you don't gain the communication skills you need in dealing with other adults either. That sort of isolation is what leads these poor kids to not be able to handle even basic social situations in the future. It's absolutely horrible.

You are inventing your own version of the facts, and it doesn't connect with many home-schooled kids reality.

315 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:19:21pm

re: #304 SpaceJesus

As a linguist...

Oh really?!

316 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:19:25pm

re: #309 Dustyvet

The first battle in the movie Braveheart was Stirling Bridge...Mel Gibson just sort of over looked that he forgot to put the bridge in.

The real Wallace was something like 6'6". What's Mel Gibson, like 5'4"?

317 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:19:26pm

re: #302 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'll go find it for you. You can note the name, and politely bring up next time you see them....

NukeAtomrod 3/19/09 10:32:22 am reply quote


Runs down the hallway, laughing maniacally!

I look forward to making his or her acquaintance...

318 doppelganglander  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:19:46pm

re: #265 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Wasn't the argument. It was..."whom is archaic and no longer necessary in the English language."

Blasphemer!

/old-fashioned, pedantic, and proud of it

319 debutaunt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:19:46pm

re: #308 Alouette

You are a cunning linguist.

Oh geez - I was using my gaze mantra on him.

320 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:19:57pm

re: #275 SpaceJesus

Oh, go piss up a rope.

321 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:20:01pm

re: #277 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Maybe ... maybe ... maybe ... perhaps.
Asshole, you just admitted that you DO NOT KNOW ANY!
GAZE
FOAD!


I know and know of, many. I've met many, and have worked with one for six months when we interned together, and I live with another and his brother as roommates in my undergrad. All have been incredibly weird, bordering on creepy with regard to the ones I lived with.

322 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:20:14pm

re: #306 father_of_10

I think the only way to bet over 800 negative karma is to try really hard. so, spacejesus actually is a very successful LGF contributor!

Naw, he's a piker, a wanna-be.

323 jaunte  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:20:31pm

re: #310 doppelganglander

I'm very late to the party, but I wanted to comment since I vigorously defended homeschooling on the original thread. Clearly, with the additional information we now have, this is a horse of a different color. These kids will certainly benefit from their father's involvement to counteract mom's, shall we say, extreme views. And in this case, public school is probably the better choice.

If the choice is a cult versus public school, then public school is definitely the saner choice.

324 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:20:33pm

re: #303 Shug

that same teacher probably hypes the so-called Holocaust in Gaza to his students.

sickening

the odds of you being correct are 100%

325 Racer X  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:20:33pm

re: #304 SpaceJesus

As a linguist, I'm going to have to call you an idiot for knocking Chomsky, I may not agree with his historical revisionism or his politics but there is plenty to learn from his academic work.

Ahh. Things are getting much clearer now.

How long have you had Moby aspirations?

326 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:20:41pm

re: #316 Alouette

The real Wallace was something like 6'6". What's Mel Gibson, like 5'4"?

He is really that short? Kinda dangerous if your anti-Semitic isn't it?

327 reine.de.tout  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:20:56pm

re: #291 lawhawk

I'm shocked that the media got the reporting on this wrong. That they could have gotten the plaintiff confused with the defendant is particularly galling.
. . .
Here, the judge faced a tough decision since the kids appeared to be well adjusted and thriving in a homeschooling situation, but there were serious concerns from the mother's family and friends over her involvment in the Sound Doctrine Church and the affect it may be having on the mom and the kids. That became the key for the judge to find that the kids were to attend public school.

I think that those proponents of homeschooling may have overreached on castigating the judge on this. If the mother chooses to contest this and it goes up on appeal, the press will focus on the most salacious details - the church and the homeschooling, all while ignoring what is in the best interests of the children. That remains and should be the key here.

I agree that proponents of homeschooling may have overreached on this.

But the press apparently did such a poor job of reporting this, people were given the impression that the issue was homeschooling as a means of education, when the issue isn't really that - the issue in this case seems to be that the family is concerned that these kids will not be well-served being left with the Mom.

If this were happening in my family, I would be trying to make sure somebody other than mom had custody.

328 LGoPs  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:21:01pm

re: #282 Dustyvet

The English Teacher felt odd after being fired: it was post-grammatic stress disorder.

And the math teacher was nonplussed over the whole thing......

329 Zimriel  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:21:02pm

re: #309 Dustyvet

The first battle in the movie Braveheart was Stirling Bridge...Mel Gibson just sort of over looked that he forgot to put the bridge in.

Clearly the fault of the Jews/

330 ConservatismNow!  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:21:08pm

re: #320 MandyManners

Oh, go piss up a rope.

It's not a thread without Mandy telling someone to piss up a rope.

331 screaming_eagle  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:21:21pm

re: #315 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Oh really?!

I think he means:
Spacelinguist

332 reine.de.tout  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:21:31pm

re: #297 jaunte

"Le poll c'est moi!"

LOL!
Can I use that sometime!
that's great.

333 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:21:39pm

re: #315 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Oh really?!


My undergrad diploma would like to have a word with you then

334 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:21:49pm

re: #242 goddessoftheclassroom

Oh, drat!

In case anyone cares, "who" is the nominative case (used for subjects and predicate nominatives) and "whom" is the objective case (used as the direct or indirect object of the sentence, object of the preposition, etc.)

Could you say that again, please, but say it like you're talking to a moron. For my benefit.
///

335 Bloodnok  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:21:54pm

re: #328 LGoPs

And the math teacher was nonplussed over the whole thing......

The gym teacher exercised restraint.

336 ConservatismNow!  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:22:10pm

re: #328 LGoPs

And the math teacher was nonplussed over the whole thing......

The history teach was so upset over the firing that he kept repeating himself in class.

337 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:22:18pm

Most trolls are virulent like Ebola. They flare up, kill the host ( their account) and die out quickly.

Some trolls are like genital herpes. they stick around a long long time, causing considerable irritation and suffering, racking up much negative karma. .

eventually though, somebody pulls out the forum Valtrex and they disappear

338 Dustyvet  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:22:30pm

re: #313 Nevergiveup

A bridge to far?

The Scots waited as the English knights and infantry made their slow progress across the bridge on the morning of 11 September. The disorderly Scottish army of 1296 was gone: Wallace and Moray's hold over their men was firm. They held back earlier in the day when many of the English and Welsh archers had crossed, only to be recalled because Surrey had overslept. The two commanders now waited, according to the Chronicle of Hemingburgh, until "as many of the enemy had come over as they believed they could overcome." When the vanguard, comprising 5,400 English and Welsh infantry and several hundred cavalry had crossed the Bridge, the attack was ordered. The Scots spearmen came down from the high ground in rapid advance towards Stirling Bridge, quickly seizing control of the English bridgehead. Surrey's vanguard was now cut off from the rest of the army. The heavy cavalry to the north of the river was trapped and cut to pieces, their comrades to the south powerless to help.

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

339 pink freud  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:22:39pm

re: #304 SpaceJesus

As a linguist, I'm going to have to call you an idiot for knocking Chomsky, I may not agree with his historical revisionism or his politics but there is plenty to learn from his academic work.

Ruh Roh.

/why am I not surprised?

340 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:22:45pm

re: #203 SpaceJesus

Yes, and every single person my own age agrees with this. It's pretty much common knowledge.


Let me guess.

You are bigoted and biased towards white Christians of any religious affiliation.

Did you know that Asian Americans home-school their kids too?

Would it surprise you that there are many non-lily-white-skinned parents who home-school their kids?

341 screaming_eagle  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:22:46pm

re: #321 SpaceJesus

I know and know of, many. I've met many, and have worked with one for six months when we interned together, and I live with another and his brother as roommates in my undergrad. All have been incredibly weird, bordering on creepy with regard to the ones I lived with.

So with your 6 split-personalities, we now have figured this out.

342 Killian Bundy  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:22:51pm
SpaceJesus

Karma: -833

/did someone mention socially stunted?

343 father_of_10  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:22:52pm

re: #304 SpaceJesus

As a linguist, I'm going to have to call you an idiot for knocking Chomsky, I may not agree with his historical revisionism or his politics but there is plenty to learn from his academic work.

Anyway, kids who don't think there is anything special about themselves are kids who are probably neglected at home or have some sort of clinical disorder or chemical imbalance etc.

Also, you cannot possibly develop peer to peer communication skills if the person who is "overseeing" you the whole day is your parent. Not only that, but you don't gain the communication skills you need in dealing with other adults either. That sort of isolation is what leads these poor kids to not be able to handle even basic social situations in the future. It's absolutely horrible.

Lousy generalizations. You are assuming that all home-schooled kids spend the whole day with their parents, that they do not deal with other adults, that they are home-schooled because they have a clinical disorder or are chemically imbalanced. On top of that, you say they must have low self-esteem?

Your answer then, is the public school system? that is your answer to generating good self-esteem and finding role models?

Really?

Using the public school system as a positive example in this argument is seriously funny.

344 doppelganglander  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:22:52pm

re: #304 SpaceJesus

Wasting my time, I know, but here goes. Most of your life, your peers will be adults. Learning to communicate with your fellow teenagers has limited application in later life. Every homeschooler I know, and I know many, gets along well with adults and can communicate clearly and effectively. This is a lot more important and useful than eyerolling, text-speak, and other aspects of teenage communication.

345 Catttt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:22:57pm

re: #302 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'll go find it for you. You can note the name, and politely bring up next time you see them....

NukeAtomrod 3/19/09 10:32:22 am reply quote


Runs down the hallway, laughing maniacally!

I use "whom" when necessary - obviously, not when it's not necessary. It's a word, and I use it. It's NOT ARCHAIC! Example of an archaic word: methinks. Example of a NOT archaic word: whom.

I also say "This is she" when someone asks for me on the phone. :D

346 jaunte  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:23:05pm

re: #332 reine.de.tout

LOL!
Can I use that sometime!
that's great.

Sure, go ahead. Some of my clients like to ignore their consumer research data and just make executive decisions; I wrote it for them.

347 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:23:13pm

re: #321 SpaceJesus

I know and know of, many. I've met many, and have worked with one for six months when we interned together, and I live with another and his brother as roommates in my undergrad. All have been incredibly weird, bordering on creepy with regard to the ones I lived with.

You've "documented" two.
Only two.
You say "many", but you've only "documented" two.

You, sir, are a bald-faced liar.

348 Racer X  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:23:16pm

re: #334 Slumbering Behemoth

Could you say that again, please, but say it like you're talking to a moron. For my benefit.
///

"Pretend I'm a moron. OK, fine. Don't pretend".

349 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:23:39pm

re: #342 Killian Bundy

/did someone mention socially stunted?

oh if I could I would create 1000 sock puppet accounts just to ding that 1000 times

350 reine.de.tout  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:23:48pm

re: #321 SpaceJesus

I know and know of, many. I've met many, and have worked with one for six months when we interned together, and I live with another and his brother as roommates in my undergrad. All have been incredibly weird, bordering on creepy with regard to the ones I lived with.

Well, I've got to ask you again - have you ever considered the possibility that the weird, creepy one is YOU and not THEM?

351 pink freud  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:24:01pm

re: #304 SpaceJesus

As a linguist, I'm going to have to call you an idiot for knocking Chomsky, I may not agree with his historical revisionism or his politics but there is plenty to learn from his academic work.

Anyway, kids who don't think there is anything special about themselves are kids who are probably neglected at home or have some sort of clinical disorder or chemical imbalance etc.

Also, you cannot possibly develop peer to peer communication skills if the person who is "overseeing" you the whole day is your parent. Not only that, but you don't gain the communication skills you need in dealing with other adults either. That sort of isolation is what leads these poor kids to not be able to handle even basic social situations in the future. It's absolutely horrible.

PULL.
YOUR.
HEAD.
OUTTA YER.
ASS.

352 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:24:02pm

re: #313 Nevergiveup

A bridge to far?

the bridge was in Madison Co.....

353 father_of_10  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:24:07pm

re: #310 doppelganglander

I'm very late to the party, but I wanted to comment since I vigorously defended homeschooling on the original thread. Clearly, with the additional information we now have, this is a horse of a different color. These kids will certainly benefit from their father's involvement to counteract mom's, shall we say, extreme views. And in this case, public school is probably the better choice.

Home-schooling isn't the problem here. It is the brainwashing and stupidity of the mother. This is not a home-schooling issue, it is a parenting issue.

354 midwestgak  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:24:13pm

re: #283 ConservatismNow!

Congratulation Lizards. You guys got trolled. SpaceJesus has you guys hook, line, and sinker. He gave away the trolling when he started talking about empirical evidence. I'd give it a 7/10. The "statements of fact" got even more ridiculous as the thread went on.

I've never responded to a troll before tonight. Knowing that changing its mind is not the goal, I decided to just point out silliness. No down dings needed.

355 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:24:29pm

re: #345 Catttt

Buzz used the word "who"

Then posted "whom, pimf"

That was when the debate began.

I was in the corner stirring up the pot.

356 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:24:40pm

Sometimes I feel so sorry for many of you misinformed ignorant posters...

I just want to huddle all ye unwashed masses to my bossom, where you can suckle from the teet of knowledge till you are fat with wisdom.

357 funky chicken  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:24:43pm

[Link: www.newsobserver.com...]

How horrifying. This woman is a prime candidate to kidnap these kids and run off to cult headquarters with them.

358 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:24:43pm

re: #333 SpaceJesus

My undergrad diploma would like to have a word with you then

I'm going on evidence (or lack thereof) which you've presented here.

359 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:24:58pm

re: #351 pink freud

PULL.
YOUR.
HEAD.
OUTTA YER.
ASS.

You know he has a humongous crick in his neck by now.

360 ladycatnip  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:25:11pm

#246 Space Jesus

#239 brookly red

Sooo does jesus have a problem with Evangelicals? Not that I care but it is an interesting issue.

I have a big problem with the ones who are radical and violent, like I said way up there earlier.

You mean the ones who chop off limbs and heads, honor kill their daughters, blow up people on buses or in pizza parlors, threaten to kill anyone who mocks or draws cartoons about their religion...you mean those Evangelicals?

361 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:25:15pm

re: #354 midwestgak

I've never responded to a troll before tonight. Knowing that changing its mind is not the goal, I decided to just point out silliness. No down dings needed.

the whole point is to waste your time

362 Catttt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:25:33pm

re: #304 SpaceJesus

Listen, everyone - I'm the Queen of England!

363 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:25:40pm

re: #337 Shug

Most trolls are virulent like Ebola. They flare up, kill the host ( their account) and die out quickly.

Some trolls are like genital herpes. they stick around a long long time, causing considerable irritation and suffering, racking up much negative karma. .

eventually though, somebody pulls out the forum Valtrex and they disappear


(heh ... I'm trying to do just that ... :D)

364 jaunte  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:25:57pm
"I know and know of, many. I've met many, and have worked with one for six months when we interned together, and I live with another and his brother as roommates in my undergrad. All have been incredibly weird, bordering on creepy with regard to the ones I lived with..."

This is known to linguists as the SJ Proximity Effect.

365 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:26:01pm

re: #350 reine.de.tout

Well, I've got to ask you again - have you ever considered the possibility that the weird, creepy one is YOU and not THEM?


Yeah, I wasn't the one throwing a cat in the air in the driveway till its legs broke, then smashed it while it was crippled with a bag of dry cement. Woo, go home-schooled kids.

366 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:26:06pm

re: #356 SpaceJesus

Sometimes I feel so sorry for many of you misinformed ignorant posters...

I just want to huddle all ye unwashed masses to my bossom, where you can suckle from the teet of knowledge till you are fat with wisdom.

You misspelled "teat"

Or did you mean "teeth"?

367 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:26:09pm

I think # 342 is the best comment I've seen all year.

368 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:26:16pm

re: #356 SpaceJesus

Holy shit. SpaceJesus is Barack Obama.

369 reine.de.tout  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:26:20pm

re: #356 SpaceJesus

Sometimes I feel so sorry for many of you misinformed ignorant posters...

I just want to huddle all ye unwashed masses to my bossom, where you can suckle from the teet of knowledge till you are fat with wisdom.

Mr. Linguist - describe for me this "bossom". I can't find it.

370 Bloodnok  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:26:21pm

re: #361 albusteve

the whole point is to waste your time

Exactly. I've said it before and I'll say it again.

"TAKE THIS THREAD TO CUBA!"

371 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:26:31pm

re: #356 SpaceJesus

Sometimes I feel so sorry for many of you misinformed ignorant posters...

I just want to huddle all ye unwashed masses to my bossom, where you can suckle from the teet of knowledge till you are fat with wisdom.

It's "teat" you fucking moron.

372 Catttt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:26:33pm

re: #355 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Buzz used the word "who"

Then posted "whom, pimf"

That was when the debate began.

I was in the corner stirring up the pot.

I love that I am a part of a blog that can get into a scuffle about grammar and usage.

373 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:26:39pm

re: #362 Catttt

Listen, everyone - I'm the Queen of England!


I always had you figured for much better looking than that?

374 pink freud  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:26:43pm

re: #321 SpaceJesus

I know and know of, many. I've met many, and have worked with one for six months when we interned together, and I live with another and his brother as roommates in my undergrad. All have been incredibly weird, bordering on creepy with regard to the ones I lived with.

You really don't see the irony here (with a neg karma of 843) ....?

375 razorbacker  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:26:50pm

re: #356 SpaceJesus

Sometimes I feel so sorry for many of you misinformed ignorant posters...

I just want to huddle all ye unwashed masses to my bossom, where you can suckle from the teet of knowledge till you are fat with wisdom.

I wondered what you get out of a teet. I know milk comes from a teat, but those teets have always baffled me.

376 Dustyvet  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:27:06pm

re: #362 Catttt

Listen, everyone - I'm the Queen of England!

Your Majesty...:)


Dophing hat and bowing deeply...:)

377 reine.de.tout  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:27:11pm

re: #371 MandyManners

It's "teat" you fucking moron.

And "bosom", not "bossom".

378 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:27:14pm

I need to cook or post. Dinner wins. See you all.

379 father_of_10  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:27:17pm

re: #333 SpaceJesus

My undergrad diploma would like to have a word with you then

You know, I never put my internet credentials out. i tdoes not good because people judge me for what I say, not on the fact that I am a jet fighter pilot attorney MD college professor race car driver.

380 Pvt Bin Jammin  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:27:21pm

re: #371 MandyManners

ROTFLMAO I needed a good laugh.

381 abaleh  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:27:31pm

re: #321 SpaceJesus

I know and know of, many. I've met many, and have worked with one for six months when we interned together, and I live with another and his brother as roommates in my undergrad. All have been incredibly weird, bordering on creepy with regard to the ones I lived with.

I count three.
Is three many?

382 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:27:34pm

re: #356 SpaceJesus

Sometimes I feel so sorry for many of you misinformed ignorant posters...

I just want to huddle all ye unwashed masses to my bossom, where you can suckle from the teet of knowledge till you are fat with wisdom.

Do you feel better now?

383 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:27:34pm

re: #304 SpaceJesus

As a linguist, I'm going to have to call you an idiot for knocking Chomsky, I may not agree with his historical revisionism or his politics but there is plenty to learn from his academic work.

Anyway, kids who don't think there is anything special about themselves are kids who are probably neglected at home or have some sort of clinical disorder or chemical imbalance etc.

Also, you cannot possibly develop peer to peer communication skills if the person who is "overseeing" you the whole day is your parent. Not only that, but you don't gain the communication skills you need in dealing with other adults either. That sort of isolation is what leads these poor kids to not be able to handle even basic social situations in the future. It's absolutely horrible.

My Dad is a PhD linguist and thinks Chomsky's theories are useless. And I bet he's older than you and has much more experience in the field.

384 screaming_eagle  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:27:45pm

This is even more comical than the Ones last speech.

385 kynna  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:27:47pm

Ick. Sounds awful. The first article sounded awful, too, but the complete opposite way.

Wonder what I'm supposed to believe. The media's not helping me out, here.

386 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:28:16pm

re: #334 Slumbering Behemoth

Could you say that again, please, but say it like you're talking to a moron. For my benefit.
///

VERY basically:

Before a verb or after a linking verb (such as a form of "to be"), use WHO.
Who will bell the cat?
The leader is who?

After a verb or prepositions, use WHOM.

You gave whom the letter?
To whom should I address the letter?

387 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:28:25pm

re: #377 reine.de.tout

And "bosom", not "bossom".

I thought it was "blossom"

388 doppelganglander  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:28:31pm

re: #353 father_of_10

Home-schooling isn't the problem here. It is the brainwashing and stupidity of the mother. This is not a home-schooling issue, it is a parenting issue.

Exactly. And in this particular, limited situation, homeschooling is not appropriate. The judge can't order the woman to leave the church, or forbid her from taking her children, but he can keep the father involved and require them to go to school.

389 razorbacker  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:28:47pm

re: #377 reine.de.tout

And "bosom", not "bossom".

Bit harsh, don't you think?

I mean, until he gets to actually see one, why bother to learn to spell it?

390 The Shadow Do  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:28:49pm

re: #356 SpaceJesus

Sometimes I feel so sorry for many of you misinformed ignorant posters...

I just want to huddle all ye unwashed masses to my bossom, where you can suckle from the teet of knowledge till you are fat with wisdom.

Dear Spud,
Go suck your own bosom please. I suspect you are rather accomplished at that - and other self gratifying acts.

391 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:29:10pm

re: #383 rightymouse

My Dad is a PhD linguist and thinks Chomsky's theories are useless. And I bet he's older than you and has much more experience in the field.

That's fantastic, maybe he can come out of your imagination and give a speech at my undergrad university.

392 Bloodnok  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:29:10pm

re: #389 razorbacker

Bit harsh, don't you think?

I mean, until he gets to actually see one, why bother to learn to spell it?

LOL!

393 brookly red  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:29:18pm

re: #356 SpaceJesus

Sometimes I feel so sorry for many of you misinformed ignorant posters...

I just want to huddle all ye unwashed masses to my bossom, where you can suckle from the teet of knowledge till you are fat with wisdom.

and here is my other cheek... never more, never more.

394 screaming_eagle  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:29:18pm

re: #362 Catttt

Listen, everyone - I'm the Queen of England!

May I have an Estate in the North?

395 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:29:21pm

re: #369 reine.de.tout

Mr. Linguist - describe for me this "bossom". I can't find it.

And WTF is a "teet"?
/some linguist!

396 jaunte  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:29:26pm

Blossom got the 'ell out. She coudden stannit ennymore.

397 pink freud  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:29:34pm

re: #359 MandyManners

You know he has a humongous crick in his neck by now.

Trolls have necks?

398 alegrias  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:29:37pm

There's an immigration activist on Fox called Carolyn Murray, with BDS, who is as dense as one of our posters on this thread.

Laura Ingraham finally had to GAZE or glaze over the liberal talking pointyhead.

399 reine.de.tout  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:29:38pm

re: #389 razorbacker

Bit harsh, don't you think?

I mean, until he gets to actually see one, why bother to learn to spell it?

Ah, you're right.
Same goes for "teet" I guess.

400 Irenike  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:29:41pm

re: #203 SpaceJesus

Yes, and every single person my own age agrees with this. It's pretty much common knowledge.

You didn't define "socially stunted." I'm waiting for the definition.

How old are you?

I'm 42. I homeschool my kids. I've done a lot of reading about the so-called "socialization" problem of homeschooled kids, and I have yet to see an operative definition that accurately describes any real phenomenon. It's a straw man.

Now, if you disagree with me, go ahead and give me a definition and some real evidence, not just your unsupported assertions.

401 dapperdave  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:29:54pm

re: #356 SpaceJesus

Son, I'm fixing to give you some flash light therapy!

402 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:29:56pm

re: #356 SpaceJesus

Sometimes I feel so sorry for many of you misinformed ignorant posters...

I just want to huddle all ye unwashed masses to my bossom, where you can suckle from the teet of knowledge till you are fat with wisdom.

'teet?

403 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:30:05pm

re: #377 reine.de.tout

And "bosom", not "bossom".

that one is gonna leave a huge mark!

404 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:30:12pm

spelling is hard when I have to respond to 8 million internet idiots at once

405 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:30:15pm

re: #343 father_of_10

Lousy generalizations. You are assuming that all home-schooled kids spend the whole day with their parents, that they do not deal with other adults, that they are home-schooled because they have a clinical disorder or are chemically imbalanced. On top of that, you say they must have low self-esteem?

Your answer then, is the public school system? that is your answer to generating good self-esteem and finding role models?

Really?

Using the public school system as a positive example in this argument is seriously funny.

Some of us who teach in public schools feel that being a good role model is the greatest calling of our profession, so please be careful with your generalizations.

406 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:30:17pm

re: #386 goddessoftheclassroom

Thanks GotC. I used to know this stuff, but it has since leaked out of my ears.

407 LGoPs  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:30:42pm

re: #336 ConservatismNow!

The history teach was so upset over the firing that he kept repeating himself in class.

The Geography teacher couldn't stick around to comment. He had to run to catch the 5:00 terrain.....

408 ConservatismNow!  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:30:50pm

re: #356 SpaceJesus

Sometimes I feel so sorry for many of you misinformed ignorant posters...

I just want to huddle all ye unwashed masses to my bosun, where you can suckle from the Tete of knowledge till you are fat with wisdom.

I fixed that because I like sailing. What's in Tete?

409 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:30:57pm

re: #188 Salamantis

[Link: www.newsobserver.com...]

Check items 15, 22, 23, 28, 29, 30, and 32,

Read them all:

15: Boot camp regime
22: They were "distant:.
23: They were "isolated"
28: Hearsay, not related to Vanessa.
30. Mr. Williams. Not involved.
32. Daniel had to finish his chores before going to the bathroom. Now, I would have let him go. Child abuse?

410 [deleted]  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:31:00pm
411 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:31:04pm

I milked a cat once.
Just grabbed her little teet and milked her.
Collected the milk in a little saucer.

Fed it to the runt of the litter.
I named him Jepetto.

412 father_of_10  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:31:05pm

re: #391 SpaceJesus

That's fantastic, maybe he can come out of your imagination and give a speech at my undergrad university.

Kindergarten is now considered undergrad?

413 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:31:09pm

re: #404 SpaceJesus

spelling is hard when I have to respond to 8 million internet idiots at once

Can't walk and chew gum at the same time?

414 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:31:26pm

re: #404 SpaceJesus

spelling is hard when I have to respond to 8 million internet idiots at once

Do you feel better now?

415 Dustyvet  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:31:27pm

re: #404 SpaceJesus

spelling is hard when I have to respond to 8 million internet idiots at once

Why you condescending dork...!

416 jaunte  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:31:28pm

248 online. Innumeracy too!

417 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:31:41pm

you guys should stop attacking the idiot.

give up the teet offensive

/

418 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:31:45pm

re: #394 screaming_eagle

May I have an Estate in the North?

Have you ever rendered service onto the UK?

419 Bloodnok  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:31:58pm

re: #410 Iron Fist

*sniff* *snif*

Anyone smell a sock?

Just a heel.

420 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:32:15pm

or continue your little teet a teet if you prefer

421 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:32:24pm

re: #377 reine.de.tout

And "bosom", not "bossom".

I was laughing so I missed that one.

422 screaming_eagle  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:32:39pm

re: #404 SpaceJesus

spelling is hard when I have to respond to 8 million internet idiots at once

You don't have to answer all the voices in your head.

423 doppelganglander  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:32:42pm

re: #373 Nevergiveup

I always had you figured for much better looking than that?

I'll have you know my mother looks eerily like the Queen and she was a beautiful woman in her youth. (She's still beautiful to me of course.)

424 jaunte  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:32:51pm

It's got to be teet ime somewhere.

425 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:33:02pm

re: #410 Iron Fist

*sniff* *snif*

Anyone smell a sock?

I do but it's just fleeting hint

426 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:33:05pm

re: #417 Shug

you guys should stop attacking the idiot.

give up the teet offensive

/

No time for puns at the moment. Git outta th' Hue.

427 Sharmuta  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:33:27pm

Thank you very much for the follow up, Charles.

Imagine my surprise that the msm distorts stories! And a mom trying to push out the dad from decision making authority- that's new.

428 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:33:28pm

Villinova is getting spanked by American Univ. 45-31.

429 Dustyvet  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:33:35pm

re: #424 jaunte

It's got to be teet ime somewhere.

Trick or Teet?


/S

430 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:33:35pm

I love a good bube thread

431 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:33:47pm

re: #420 Shug

or continue your little teet a teet if you prefer

teet for tat...they can't stop

432 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:33:53pm

re: #397 pink freud

Trolls have necks?

Very thick ones.

433 _RememberTonyC  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:34:03pm

re: #404 SpaceJesus

spelling is hard when I have to respond to 8 million internet idiots at once


dude ... as we say in basketball: get that weak shit out of here. whining is integral to the liberal playbook, but it just looks pathetic in a forum like this.

434 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:34:13pm

re: #391 SpaceJesus

That's fantastic, maybe he can come out of your imagination and give a speech at my undergrad university.

He's a published Biblical linguist and translation consultant and well respected.

More than I can say for you at this point.

435 screaming_eagle  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:34:14pm

re: #418 Nevergiveup

Have you ever rendered service onto the UK?

Sure, traded food with them.

436 Irenike  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:34:23pm

re: #177 SpaceJesus

I rely on good old empirical evidence of every single one I have ever met, lived with or worked with. They are socially retarded to the point where their basic communication skills, not to mention higher-level stuff like creativity and humor are completely absent. I'm not knocking them. I feel extremely sorry for them.

Okay, I found your thread. Is this what you mean by "socially retarded?" Wow. My experience with homeschooled kids --including my own-- is just the opposite from your experience. We must inhabit totally different worlds.

437 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:34:31pm

re: #404 SpaceJesus

spelling is hard when I have to respond to 8 million internet idiots at once

Math's not your strong suit, either.

438 Catttt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:34:35pm

re: #365 SpaceJesus

I see you attended your National Enquirer 101 class at I Heard it Through the Grapevine Public School.

439 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:34:41pm

re: #423 doppelganglander

I'll have you know my mother looks eerily like the Queen and she was a beautiful woman in her youth. (She's still beautiful to me of course.)

Then I bend and humbly apologize.

440 father_of_10  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:35:00pm

re: #405 goddessoftheclassroom

Some of us who teach in public schools feel that being a good role model is the greatest calling of our profession, so please be careful with your generalizations.

OK, generally speaking, home-school kids perform better in standardized tests than public school kids.

Generally speaking, home school kids have better role models than public school kids.

Generally speaking, public school teachers strive to be good role models.

Generally speaking, of course.

441 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:35:00pm

re: #356 SpaceJesus

Sometimes I feel so sorry for many of you misinformed ignorant posters...

I just want to huddle all ye unwashed masses to my bossom, where you can suckle from the teet of knowledge till you are fat with wisdom.

"bossom"?

442 reine.de.tout  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:35:12pm

re: #436 Irenike

Okay, I found your thread. Is this what you mean by "socially retarded?" Wow. My experience with homeschooled kids --including my own-- is just the opposite from your experience. We must inhabit totally different worlds.

Nobody lives in SpaceJ's world.
'cept him.

443 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:35:48pm

re: #435 screaming_eagle

Sure, traded food with them.

How are their rations?

444 Bloodnok  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:35:49pm

re: #441 rightymouse

"bossom"?

He has breste issues. (teet, bossum)

445 doppelganglander  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:35:53pm

re: #439 Nevergiveup

Then I bend and humbly apologize.

No harm, I was just being offended for comic effect. How could you know what my mother looks like? Now, if you want to talk about Camilla...

446 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:35:56pm

re: #203 SpaceJesus

Yes, and every single person my own age agrees with this. It's pretty much common knowledge.

I call shens on your bullshit claims...put up hard evidence to back it up or STFU.

Don't be like Dear Leader and his crew....don't be writing checks you can't cash.

447 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:35:56pm

re: #410 Iron Fist

*sniff* *snif*

Anyone smell a sock?

Otingoc. That "teet" comment and his "8 million" comment sound familiar.

448 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:36:20pm

re: #442 reine.de.tout

Nobody lives in SpaceJ's world.
'cept him.

Oh that I had more updings to give!

449 screaming_eagle  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:36:25pm

re: #443 Nevergiveup

How are their rations?

Better then ours.

450 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:36:29pm

re: #440 father_of_10

OK, generally speaking, home-school kids perform better in standardized tests than public school kids.

Generally speaking, home school kids have better role models than public school kids.

Generally speaking, public school teachers strive to be good role models.

Generally speaking, of course.

could you keep that private general?

451 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:36:39pm

another argument won. rationality and common sense prevail once more.

I am like an aegis of logic, braced against a tidal wave of unbridled idiocy.

452 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:36:53pm

No, not Cog...Cog is literate.

453 ladycatnip  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:36:56pm
As a linguist...

A linquist? Really? Normally when one has graduated with a degree in linguistics, one should possess good writing skills along with a modicum of erudition. I'm seeing neither.

454 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:37:12pm

re: #444 Bloodnok

He has breste issues. (teet, bossum)

mammeree's

455 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:37:24pm

OP gets one down ding from someone with the nic "snapped shot". Should we take this to mean that "snapped shot" is in favor of cultist child abuse?

456 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:37:27pm

re: #445 doppelganglander

No harm, I was just being offended for comic effect. How could you know what my mother looks like? Now, if you want to talk about Camilla...

I don't even want to think about Camilla. And as far as the Queen is concerned, actually I admire her. She hung tough for her country in WW2.

457 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:37:31pm

re: #440 father_of_10

OK, generally speaking, home-school kids perform better in standardized tests than public school kids.

Generally speaking, home school kids have better role models than public school kids.

Generally speaking, public school teachers strive to be good role models.

Generally speaking, of course.


Generally speaking these data suffer from selection bias don't they?

Highly motivated parents home school their children. Children with special needs, learning problems or parents who don't give a shit are part of the pool of the public school kids and their test results.

So generally speaking, you can't compare the two groups.

458 Zimriel  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:37:39pm

re: #436 Irenike

Okay, I found your thread. Is this what you mean by "socially retarded?" Wow. My experience with homeschooled kids --including my own-- is just the opposite from your experience. We must inhabit totally different worlds.

Lucky you. In my world, there's a jagoff called "SpaceJesus" who comes into threads to troll. I think I like yours better. Can I move?

459 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:37:46pm

re: #451 SpaceJesus

another argument won. rationality and common sense prevail once more.

I am like an aegis of logic, braced against a tidal wave of unbridled idiocy.

*yawns* at the distant sound of masturbation

460 Dustyvet  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:37:48pm

re: #448 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Oh that I had more updings to give!

"Somewhere over the rainbow..."...ahem...

461 funky chicken  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:37:51pm

re: #409 BatGuano

Read them all:

15: Boot camp regime
22: They were "distant:.
23: They were "isolated"
28: Hearsay, not related to Vanessa.
30. Mr. Williams. Not involved.
32. Daniel had to finish his chores before going to the bathroom. Now, I would have let him go. Child abuse?

Dude. You are defending the way this woman treats her children. The people who testified against her are her own parents, siblings, and life-long friends.

But you think her behavior sounds OK, and don't think she is abusive toward her children.

You are nuts.

462 pink freud  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:38:06pm

re: #451 SpaceJesus

another argument won. rationality and common sense prevail once more.

Where!? Did I miss something?

463 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:38:06pm

re: #449 screaming_eagle

Better then ours.

Wow, wouldn't have thought that.

464 screaming_eagle  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:38:08pm

re: #451 SpaceJesus

another argument won. rationality and common sense prevail once more.

I am like an aegis of logic, braced against a tidal wave of unbridled idiocy.

Quit Pissing in the wind. It confuses you.

465 father_of_10  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:38:21pm

re: #453 ladycatnip

A linquist? Really? Normally when one has graduated with a degree in linguistics, one should possess good writing skills along with a modicum of erudition. I'm seeing neither.

Not only that, but I think he's a retard.

466 ConservatismNow!  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:38:25pm

Is it wrong if SpaceJesus actually makes me laugh?

467 Catttt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:39:00pm

re: #373 Nevergiveup

I always had you figured for much better looking than that?

Here I am with my husband. This was before I lost my head. :D

468 Alberta Oil Peon  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:39:06pm

re: #140 albusteve

what a stupid question to ask

Steve, I apologize if my question to you appeared so snarky. I was just kind of astonished to see someone like yourself, who I've come view as pretty level-headed poster, could read that court decision, and not see the evil in that cult.

But then I see later, that you hadn't read the decision.

Me, I'd sooner read the decision itself, and skip the media's filtering of it.

469 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:39:18pm

re: #451 SpaceJesus

Wow. Here, for you Spacey.

470 Dustyvet  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:39:21pm

re: #464 screaming_eagle

Quit Pissing in the wind. It confuses you.

"The answer my friend is pissing in the wind"

/S

471 funky chicken  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:39:21pm

Eh. gotta go.

472 father_of_10  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:39:32pm

re: #457 Shug

Generally speaking these data suffer from selection bias don't they?

Highly motivated parents home school their children. Children with special needs, learning problems or parents who don't give a shit are part of the pool of the public school kids and their test results.

So generally speaking, you can't compare the two groups.

Exactly. Which is why spacejesus is a putz.

473 dapperdave  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:40:18pm

re: #466 ConservatismNow!

As long as you laugh at him and not with him.

474 midwestgak  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:40:24pm

re: #454 albusteve

mammeree's


Mammeree, Mammaray, Mammaree, MammaHAHAHAHA, Mammerree . . .

475 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:40:29pm

re: #472 father_of_10

Exactly. Which is why spacejesus is a putz.

the troll who shall remain nameless is a putz either way.

476 screaming_eagle  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:40:29pm

re: #463 Nevergiveup

Wow, wouldn't have thought that.

Well, after eating the same shit for months on end it certainly seemed that way. Hell they took our MRE's for the same reason. Told us we had good things in them.

477 SpaceJesus  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:40:36pm

re: #440 father_of_10

OK, generally speaking, home-school kids perform better in standardized tests than public school kids.

Generally speaking, home school kids have better role models than public school kids.

Generally speaking, public school teachers strive to be good role models.

Generally speaking, of course.


try comparing home-schooled kids with AP track students' stats (such as myself) and see how they fall short. Home schooled kids only perform well in math, because their parents find it easiest to follow the textbook.

When I was 18, I would absolutely destroy any home-schooled kid who didn't have a lab in his house growing up in physics, chem and biology not to mention liberal arts type stuff.

those poor damn kids.

478 Killgore Trout  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:40:57pm

Thanks for the update on this one, Charles.

479 razorbacker  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:41:06pm

re: #453 ladycatnip

A linquist? Really? Normally when one has graduated with a degree in linguistics, one should possess good writing skills along with a modicum of erudition. I'm seeing neither.

It never said that it was a cunning linguist, now did it?

480 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:41:06pm

re: #471 funky chicken

Bye.

481 Catttt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:41:16pm

re: #356 SpaceJesus

Sometimes I feel so sorry for many of you misinformed ignorant posters...

I just want to huddle all ye unwashed masses to my bossom, where you can suckle from the teet of knowledge till you are fat with wisdom.

Have you tried Firefox? It has a built in spellchecker.

BOSSOM/TEET thread!

482 Sharmuta  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:41:22pm

I just remember everyone being up in arms that the judge had mentioned it was the religion that was a problem. Well, I guess we now know why he said so and it's clearly a case in which a family court judge SHOULD be concerned about the religion of one of the parents. Hope the dad gets these kids.

483 [deleted]  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:41:36pm
484 phoenixgirl  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:41:37pm

re: #466 ConservatismNow!

Is it wrong if SpaceJesus actually makes me laugh?

lol! i wish they'd stop feeding him but i find myself reading everything he posts.

485 doppelganglander  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:41:47pm

I think what we have here with SpaceJesus is a failure to communicate. May I assist with a SpaceJesus-to-English glossary?

undergrad = community college
linguistics = shooting your mouth off
roommates = imaginary friends
8 million = 2,042 online, 284 logged in (see also: Katrina math)

486 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:41:51pm

re: #461 funky chicken

Dude. You are defending the way this woman treats her children. The people who testified against her are her own parents, siblings, and life-long friends.

But you think her behavior sounds OK, and don't think she is abusive toward her children.

You are nuts.

bullshit...do you think she has a fair chance to twist this in court and win?....I do...where is the state in this case?...if children are being abused how come SS has not stepped in?...nobody here supports crackpot parents or abusive treatment of children...can the court prevail on appeal?

487 nyc redneck  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:42:11pm

re: #254 Karagush

ooooo Everybody says! Its common knowledge!

thats not an argument.
The same could as accurately be said about the public school system. Everyone knows its broken. All the kids that go to public schools are under served.

my personal experience:
I took an abused child with asberger's syndrome, ADD ADHD and Brain damage, and some residual deafness issues pretty much a wild animal, and turned her into a reliable little person who works as a day spa receptionist, has a license to do sports therapy massage, is an awesome Vet tech to me on my horse breeding farm and who is universally loved by just about everyone she meets. People dont say that to me to make me feel good, they say it in sheer awe at the enormous change in the girl.

Shes now getting ready to go to school to learn how to do special effects costume design. Shes 20. When she came to my home she was 14 and could barely read, got along with nobody, and had bare rudimentary writing and math skills. Being enrolled in public school certainly hadn't done her any good.

karagush,
you have done something really incredible and amazing.

488 screaming_eagle  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:42:29pm

re: #477 SpaceJesus

Obama?

489 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:42:48pm

re: #477 SpaceJesus

When I was 18, I would absolutely destroy any home-schooled kid who didn't have a lab in his house growing up in physics, chem and biology not to mention liberal arts type stuff.

You appear to be very well adjusted.

490 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:42:51pm
491 Dustyvet  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:43:01pm

re: #485 doppelganglander

I think what we have here with SpaceJesus is a failure to communicate. May I assist with a SpaceJesus-to-English glossary?

undergrad = community college
linguistics = shooting your mouth off
roommates = imaginary friends
8 million = 2,042 online, 284 logged in (see also: Katrina math)


roommates = imaginary friends or a twin bed full of stuffed animals...:)

492 Bloodnok  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:43:06pm

re: #482 Sharmuta

I just remember everyone being up in arms that the judge had mentioned it was the religion that was a problem. Well, I guess we now know why he said so and it's clearly a case in which a family court judge SHOULD be concerned about the religion of one of the parents. Hope the dad gets these kids.

Good evening Sharm!

493 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:43:15pm

re: #482 Sharmuta

I just remember everyone being up in arms that the judge had mentioned it was the religion that was a problem. Well, I guess we now know why he said so and it's clearly a case in which a family court judge SHOULD be concerned about the religion of one of the parents. Hope the dad gets these kids.

What about supervised parenting time for the mom to make sure that the kids are not further mistreated?

494 LGoPs  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:43:21pm

re: #451 SpaceJesus

another argument won. rationality and common sense prevail once more.

I am like an aegis of logic, braced against a tidal wave of unbridled idiocy.

Hey, Mr Linguist. Your use of aegis is awkward to say the least. A better term would be font of logic perhaps.....
Let me know if you'd like me to proof your posts before you hit 'post'........

495 Racer X  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:43:26pm

re: #404 SpaceJesus

spelling is hard when I have to respond to 8 million internet idiots at once

I've told you a hundred million times to not exaggerate.

496 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:43:39pm

re: #483 Iron Fist

Could be. He's not banned, though.

Do you need to be banned to have a sock?

497 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:44:07pm

re: #309 Dustyvet

The first battle in the movie Braveheart was Stirling Bridge...Mel Gibson just sort of over looked that he forgot to put the bridge in.


What I objected to was the relationship between Isabella and Wallace, especially the pregnancy, ostensibly by him, and her telling her FIL at his death (which actually occurred much later) that she was bearing Wallace's child. Utter Hollywood fabrication.

498 Pvt Bin Jammin  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:44:34pm

re: #496 MandyManners

Maybe he's that poster with the 167 IQ.

499 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:45:08pm

re: #482 Sharmuta

I just remember everyone being up in arms that the judge had mentioned it was the religion that was a problem. Well, I guess we now know why he said so and it's clearly a case in which a family court judge SHOULD be concerned about the religion of one of the parents. Hope the dad gets these kids.

I'm kinda of a dadhead myself...I hope the decision sticks

500 Dustyvet  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:45:08pm

re: #497 rightymouse

What I objected to was the relationship between Isabella and Wallace, especially the pregnancy, ostensibly by him, and her telling her FIL at his death (which actually occurred much later) that she was bearing Wallace's child. Utter Hollywood fabrication.

Yup!

501 pink freud  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:45:09pm

re: #485 doppelganglander

I think what we have here with SpaceJesus is a failure to communicate. May I assist with a SpaceJesus-to-English glossary?

undergrad = community college
linguistics = shooting your mouth off
roommates = imaginary friends
8 million = 2,042 online, 284 logged in (see also: Katrina math)

"poor damn kids" = I hate myself

502 Irenike  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:46:01pm

re: #451 SpaceJesus

another argument won. rationality and common sense prevail once more.

I am like an aegis of logic, braced against a tidal wave of unbridled idiocy.

Keep smokin' that pipe, dude.

I mean, you totally wonthe argument as far as I'm concerned. Starting tomorrow, I'm going to enroll my kids in the nearest public school, thanks to you. I can see now that when my children get complimented all the time about their polite behavior in public places, when they interact well with other adults and children, it's all a ruse because the poor darlings have been socially handicapped. When my kids have to quit studying algebra and advanced fiction writing from two parents with Ph.D.'s, when they have to quit getting one-on-one instruction in two foreign languages from native speakers, and instead go back to grade level, I'll be thanking you, Space Jesus. ///

Can I refill that bong for ya?

503 jorline  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:46:06pm

re: #398 alegrias

There's an immigration activist on Fox called Carolyn Murray, with BDS, who is as dense as one of our posters on this thread.

Laura Ingraham finally had to GAZE or glaze over the liberal talking pointyhead.

I saw her picture in the dictionary under moonbat.

This woman was a complete moron who loves to talk in circles. Blame Bush for the immigration problems due to his bad economy.

504 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:46:12pm

re: #477 SpaceJesus

a lab in his house growing up in physics, chem and biology not to mention liberal arts type stuff

And you obviously did ... and became a linguist too!
A real Renaissance Man you are!

You're a liar, and a self-inflating braggart.

505 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:46:13pm

Some little guy on AU is throwing up 3's from all over the place

506 razorbacker  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:46:24pm

I FORGOT

OK, by now, you've either paid your taxes, or you're about to. If you've already paid them, congratulations! That means you've already accomplished a feat that just about everybody Barack Obama knows couldn't.
And whether you've paid or you're going to pay, either way you're about to be handed the bill for the biggest increase in government spending and government debt in 250 years.
I think we need to show Mister Obama and the Congress just how much we appreciate their little gift. And April 15th is the perfect day to do it. So here are a few suggestions:

1. OBEY THE LAW. None of you are Friends of Barry, even if you voted for him, even if you -- brace yourselves -- donated to him. So fill out the right forms, include all the right attachments, and pay it if you owe it. This year, anyway.

2. THEN, after you fill out your proper and lawful taxes, and send them in, take a new form, a blank 1040A, 1040EZ, whatever you filed in the first place, and fill it out as follows:

I FORGOT

Just scrawl it across the page, like below, and mail it to the SAME IRS PO box you sent your return to. They're opened mechanically and scanned, but every one of them that does not register has to be reviewed manually. Let's show them how much we appreciate the gift Obama, Nancy and Harry have given us!

BTW: You probably want to leave your return address off the envelope. Just sayin'...

507 ConservatismNow!  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:46:35pm

New topic. Raquel Welch, 68 years old. Hot, smoking or otherwise?

Discuss amongst yourselves.

508 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:46:55pm

re: #255 razorbacker

I didn't think that I personally knew anyone who had home-schooled their kids. My wife said, 'Yes, you do. Doug and his wife home-schooled all three of their boys.'

SpaceJesus is right. All three of these boys came to bad ends. They all earned National Merit honors. One graduated Rice, and now is in law school. So he's pretty much a lost cause, I guess. One is on the Dean's List (or whatever they call it there) in Vanderbilt. Another bust, 'cause we all know those brainiacs are just itchin' to climb a clock tower and start blasting away. The third, poor sod, is worst of all. He's started Texas Tech, and will forevermore be tarred with the curse of being a Red Raider. Even the name sounds evil.

Yep, Spacejesus is right. Might as well not argue with him.

I regret that I only have one upding to give... ;-P

509 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:47:09pm

re: #496 MandyManners

Do you need to be banned to have a sock?

I should set up a sock. Name it Tom Jones.

510 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:47:12pm

re: #507 ConservatismNow!

New topic. Raquel Welch, 68 years old. Hot, smoking or otherwise?

Discuss amongst yourselves.

Thanks for making me feel old

511 Sharmuta  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:47:17pm

re: #493 MandyManners

What about supervised parenting time for the mom to make sure that the kids are not further mistreated?

I would think if she's subjected to the children to situations in which they could be abused, that she should have supervised visits.

I'd also like to point out that a large number of children are kidnapped every year by the non-custodial parent. I would be concerned with her cult involvement this woman might do such a thing. These children need protection, and supervised visits might be the best solution.

512 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:47:33pm

re: #498 Pvt Bin Jammin

Maybe he's that poster with the 167 IQ.

Nah. Mr. Smart wouldn't make spelling errors.

513 VioletTiger  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:47:45pm

re: #93 SpaceJesus

I feel terrible for the thousands of children across America who are held hostage on a daily basis because of their parents' commitment to fundamentalist, intolerant, and radical religious zeal. This abuse must end.

Week after week, thousands of innocent bloggers are subjected to the mindless ramblings of a spaced out dork, spouting unsupported nonsense.
This abuse must end.

514 Zimriel  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:48:07pm

re: #507 ConservatismNow!

New topic. Raquel Welch, 68 years old. Hot, smoking or otherwise?

Discuss amongst yourselves.

MROWR!

515 doppelganglander  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:48:11pm

There's an article about SpaceJesus in Slate this week:

What is narcissistic personality disorder, and why does everyone seem to have it?

516 NYCHardhat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:48:34pm
517 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:48:35pm

re: #509 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I should set up a sock. Name it Tom Jones.

We'd figure it out easily now.

518 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:48:47pm

re: #498 Pvt Bin Jammin

Maybe he's that poster with the 167 IQ.

That poster (167IQ) railed against the evils of testosterone, so... could be.

519 [deleted]  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:48:49pm
520 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:49:12pm

re: #444 Bloodnok

He has breste issues. (teet, bossum)

Perhaps he's been denied the breste all his life.

521 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:49:23pm

The kids are now in government school. I have nothing more to say.

522 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:49:31pm

re: #511 Sharmuta

I would think if she's subjected to the children to situations in which they could be abused, that she should have supervised visits.

I'd also like to point out that a large number of children are kidnapped every year by the non-custodial parent. I would be concerned with her cult involvement this woman might do such a thing. These children need protection, and supervised visits might be the best solution.

Maybe an RO for them, especially at school.

523 CharlieBravo  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:50:02pm

Lost me --- Putting the kids in public school will protect them from the cult?

524 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:50:17pm

We have allowed this little pipsqueak to take over this thread. I am going to pretend he doesn't exist.

When it comes to SpaceJesus? I just became an atheist.

525 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:50:22pm

re: #519 Iron Fist

No, it's not a requirement. I guess that maybe I'd expect better than this from Cog. This one isn't very good at what he does. Unless he's trying to be a lame troll. Kind of like the way a momma-bird will fake a broken wing to lead a cat away from the nest...

I didn't know that. That's sweet.

526 Dustyvet  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:50:33pm

re: #510 Nevergiveup

Thanks for making me feel old

I got to see her at the 1967 Bob Hope Christmas show at Bearcat Base...getting my high school year book and a bowl of soggy corn flakes...;(

527 [deleted]  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:50:36pm
528 Bloodnok  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:51:03pm

re: #516 NYCHardhat

Obama guarantees economy will improve.

"We are not always going to be right," he said. "And I don't want everybody disappointed if we make a mistake here or there."

Change I can believe in.

529 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:51:09pm

re: #524 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

We have allowed this little pipsqueak to take over this thread. I am going to pretend he doesn't exist.

When it comes to SpaceJesus? I just became an atheist.

300 posts too late...resistance is futile!

530 razorbacker  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:51:11pm

re: #507 ConservatismNow!

New topic. Raquel Welch, 68 years old. Hot, smoking or otherwise?

Discuss amongst yourselves.

She started from a higher plane, lookswise. So if she's only 25% as pretty as she once was, she still beats the general population by a pretty fair margin.

That said, sixtyeight? Come'ere, Granny.

531 Catttt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:51:22pm

re: #394 screaming_eagle

May I have an Estate in the North?

No, but I can give you a baronetcy.

532 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:51:39pm

re: #523 CharlieBravo

Lost me --- Putting the kids in public school will protect them from the cult?

It will keep them out of harm's way during the school day and beyond especially if the father has full parenting rights and responsibilities and the mother has none and no unsupervised parenting time.

533 Irenike  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:51:41pm

re: #477 SpaceJesus

try comparing home-schooled kids with AP track students' stats (such as myself) and see how they fall short. Home schooled kids only perform well in math, because their parents find it easiest to follow the textbook.

Who gives a damn why it is that kids perform well in math? The important thing is that they perform well. My 10-year-old just completed an algebra textbook. She can do algebra at the age of 10. Is it bad that she followed the textbook if she can actually do the math?

You should quit while you're ahead. You come off sounding like a total schmuck.

534 jorline  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:51:51pm

I see we have space junk on the thread tonight.

535 hazzyday  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:52:00pm

re: #93 SpaceJesus

I feel terrible for the thousands of children across America who are held hostage on a daily basis because of their parents' commitment to fundamentalist, intolerant, and radical religious zeal. This abuse must end.

Stop jacking off then and the world will be the better place you seek.

536 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:52:01pm

re: #527 Iron Fist

When you refill his bong, replace the water with Bacardi 151. Trust me, he'll thank you for it :-)

*whoosh*

537 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:52:51pm

re: #530 razorbacker

She started from a higher plane, lookswise. So if she's only 25% as pretty as she once was, she still beats the general population by a pretty fair margin.

That said, sixtyeight? Come'ere, Granny.

omg...think it through amigo...really

538 Alberta Oil Peon  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:52:51pm

re: #442 reine.de.tout

Nobody lives in SpaceJ's world.
'cept him.


Would you have it any other way?

539 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:53:05pm

re: #534 jorline

I see we have space junk on the thread tonight.

re: #535 hazzyday

Stop jacking off then and the world will be the better place you seek.

ROFLMAO!

540 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:53:07pm

re: #500 Dustyvet

Yup!


Since we're descended from this odd marriage (Isabella and Edward II), I made it a point to tell my son that many of the facts were nonsense.

Schooling at home. :)

541 NYCHardhat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:53:12pm

re: #528 Bloodnok

"We are not always going to be right," he said. "And I don't want everybody disappointed if we make a mistake here or there."

Change I can believe in.

What in God's name were people thinking when then voted for this bag of wind?

542 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:53:14pm

Sorry, I think Ms. Welch looks ridiculous. I'll recheck...

543 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:53:16pm

re: #530 razorbacker

She started from a higher plane, lookswise. So if she's only 25% as pretty as she once was, she still beats the general population by a pretty fair margin.

That said, sixtyeight? Come'ere, Granny.

She's doing VERY well, but for my money, she can't beat Marlene Dietrich at that age.

544 Dustyvet  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:53:19pm

re: #531 Catttt

No, but I can give you a baronetcy.

I still bowing with hat doffed, but there's cat sitting in it eating pastrami...:(

545 Zimriel  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:53:29pm

re: #535 hazzyday

[to SpaceJesus:]Stop jacking off ...

good luck with that

546 phoenixgirl  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:53:48pm

re: #507 ConservatismNow!

New topic. Raquel Welch, 68 years old. Hot, smoking or otherwise?

Discuss amongst yourselves.

she is gorgeous. i loved her in the movie with cary grant i think it was called houseboat. he was a widower with young children, they ended up getting married....so sweet

547 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:54:14pm

re: #538 Alberta Oil Peon

Would you have it any other way?

LOL!

548 midwestgak  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:54:20pm

re: #534 jorline

I see we have space junk on the thread tonight.

Does this happen a lot? Not usually here at this hour.

549 [deleted]  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:54:25pm
550 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:54:37pm

re: #532 MandyManners

It will keep them out of harm's way during the school day and beyond especially if the father has full parenting rights and responsibilities and the mother has none and no unsupervised parenting time.

if this woman is abusive she should lose these kids...I don't get all of this story...there is something missing

551 The Shadow Do  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:54:41pm

re: #507 ConservatismNow!

New topic. Raquel Welch, 68 years old. Hot, smoking or otherwise?

Discuss amongst yourselves.

Amazing

552 NYCHardhat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:54:56pm

Thats some karma SpaceJesus.

553 CharlieBravo  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:55:02pm

re: #532 MandyManners

It will keep them out of harm's way during the school day and beyond especially if the father has full parenting rights and responsibilities and the mother has none and no unsupervised parenting time.

Yes, 'if'.

554 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:55:19pm

re: #545 Zimriel

good luck with that

But SJ's just a little squirt.

555 midwestgak  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:55:37pm

re: #541 NYCHardhat

What in God's name were people thinkingfeeling when then voted for this bag of wind?

sorry, had to.

556 Racer X  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:55:40pm

Back on topic in
3

2

1.

557 Dustyvet  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:55:48pm

re: #554 pre-Boomer Marine brat

But SJ's just a little squirt.

Oh a pea shooter...;)

558 ConservatismNow!  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:55:48pm

re: #530 razorbacker

She started from a higher plane, lookswise. So if she's only 25% as pretty as she once was, she still beats the general population by a pretty fair margin.

That said, sixtyeight? Come'ere, Granny.

I had to look at a picture of Helen Thomas to get my mind off Raquel Welch. That did the trick.

559 NYCHardhat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:56:07pm

re: #555 midwestgak

sorry, had to.

Good call.

560 goddessoftheclassroom  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:56:17pm

Good night, dear Lizards. Take care.

561 Sheepdogess  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:56:40pm
Other former members testified that the cult’s leader “made several inappropriate comments about girls as young as 4 years old”

I wonder if Phil Donahue is a member.

562 jorline  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:57:04pm

re: #539 MandyManners

ROFLMAO!

Evening Mandy.

563 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:57:20pm

Is anyone familiar with the California textbook, " Through the Centuries"? Its a 7th grade textbook from about 2003?

564 Catttt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:57:21pm

re: #516 NYCHardhat

Obama guarantees economy will improve.

Suddenly, I am thinking of Joe Isuzu.

565 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:57:42pm

re: #552 NYCHardhat

Thats some karma SpaceJesus.

It's pay-value to him.
It's what his presence here is all about.

*genuflecting to His Regal Presence*

/pants down, facing away

566 Eclectic Infidel  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:57:46pm

Gee, I wonder which group of people mispresented the facts in this case.

/

567 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:57:50pm

Ann Margaret is 67, still looks beautiful...

How many staples, stucco, and zippers are holding these ladies together?

Just not afraid of aging... my wife is fighting it like a tiger.

It's good to be a boy, I guess.

568 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:58:11pm

re: #477 SpaceJesus

try comparing home-schooled kids with AP track students' stats (such as myself) and see how they fall short. Home schooled kids only perform well in math, because their parents find it easiest to follow the textbook.

When I was 18, I would absolutely destroy any home-schooled kid who didn't have a lab in his house growing up in physics, chem and biology not to mention liberal arts type stuff.

those poor damn kids.


But you chose linguistics as an undergrad?

Fascinating.

569 Sharmuta  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:58:13pm

re: #553 CharlieBravo

Yes, 'if'.

It's the family court judge's job to determine what is in the best interests of the children. So far, this judge seems unwilling to allow the kids to be abused by a strange cult. If I had to pick between the public schools or abuse of children by a cult, I'd go with the public schools every day.

570 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:58:33pm

re: #549 Iron Fist

Ether will work, too. It'd be a hell of a trip. So to speak...

Trim his eyebrows.

571 brookly red  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:58:49pm

re: #507 ConservatismNow!

New topic. Raquel Welch, 68 years old. Hot, smoking or otherwise?

Discuss amongst yourselves.

Well lemmie see, she would be at the same reunion table as Pelosie...

572 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:59:08pm

re: #550 albusteve

if this woman is abusive she should lose these kids...I don't get all of this story...there is something missing

Did you read the decision?

573 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:59:19pm

re: #557 Dustyvet

Oh a pea shooter...;)

Just go thru the room looking for the guy with little white dribbles on the toe of his shoes.

574 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:59:49pm

re: #560 goddessoftheclassroom

Good night, dear Lizards. Take care.

{goddess}
MWAH!

575 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:59:52pm

re: #553 CharlieBravo

Yes, 'if'.

I think he SHOULD get the whole enchilada.

576 HDrepub  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 5:59:55pm

re: #476 screaming_eagle

Well, after eating the same shit for months on end it certainly seemed that way. Hell they took our MRE's for the same reason. Told us we had good things in them.

Ah but nothing beats the taste of C-rats which came over on the Mayflower and stored in a warehouse somewhere until some GI's and Marines were hungry and brainwashed enough to actually eat them.

577 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:00:32pm

re: #569 Sharmuta

It's the family court judge's job to determine what is in the best interests of the children. So far, this judge seems unwilling to allow the kids to be abused by a strange cult. If I had to pick between the public schools or abuse of children by a cult, I'd go with the public schools every day.

if they are being abused why doesn't he take them away from the cult?...it's a weird half measure...something is better than nothing of course but it seems odd to me that Social Services is not involved

578 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:00:38pm

I am thinking of Winston Groom's Forrest Gump (the book). There is a chapter that involves Raquel Welch. Funny as hell!

579 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:00:47pm

re: #572 MandyManners

Did you read the decision?

yes

580 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:00:47pm

re: #567 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ann Margaret is 67, still looks beautiful...

How many staples, stucco, and zippers are holding these ladies together?

Just not afraid of aging... my wife is fighting it like a tiger.

It's good to be a boy, I guess.

Things sag on boys, too.

581 pink freud  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:01:21pm

re: #571 brookly red

Well lemmie see, she would be at the same reunion table as Pelosie...

It needed doin'.

582 razorbacker  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:01:27pm

I like ol' spacejesus a lot. I admire him, too. I imagine that when you're confined to some state-run home for the mentally negligible and finish your long day of plaiting lanyards and coloring with those pathetic little stubs of Crayolas that the bigger inmates allow you and you finally get your computer time it takes a lot of gumption to wander onto a populated blog and poke a sharp stick through the bars.

Spacejesus is my kind of fellow. Ignoring the Special Olympics, who would welcome him with open arms, to compete in the regular race with the other kids.

I applaud him, and wish him well. It's like watching a monkey paint. You don't criticize the brush strokes, but rather marvel that he can paint at all.

583 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:01:32pm

re: #569 Sharmuta

It's the family court judge's job to determine what is in the best interests of the children. So far, this judge seems unwilling to allow the kids to be abused by a strange cult. If I had to pick between the public schools or abuse of children by a cult, I'd go with the public schools every day.

And, with a parent who is not subjecting them to a cult.

584 Zimriel  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:01:50pm

Speaking of trolls,

585 Emerald  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:01:55pm

re: #477 SpaceJesus

try comparing home-schooled kids with AP track students' stats (such as myself) and see how they fall short. Home schooled kids only perform well in math, because their parents find it easiest to follow the textbook.

When I was 18, I would absolutely destroy any home-schooled kid who didn't have a lab in his house growing up in physics, chem and biology not to mention liberal arts type stuff.

those poor damn kids.

Actually, the reality doesn't match your opinion. Try page 11

The most recent and most comprehensive study
of American home schooling was led by leading
statistician and measurement expert, Dr. Lawrence
Rudner of the University of Maryland. The
study measured 20,760 home schooled students
in all 50 states (Rudner, 1999). Rudner concluded
that,
“Those parents choosing to make a commitment
to home schooling are able to provide a very
successful academic environment.” For example,
“In every subject and at every grade level of the
[tests], home schooled students scored significantly
higher than their public and private school
counterparts.”
586 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:02:00pm

re: #579 albusteve

yes

Then, what's missing in your eyes?

587 Sheepdogess  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:02:03pm

re: #568 rightymouse

But you chose linguistics as an undergrad?

Fascinating.

Noam Chomsky wanna be.

588 Sharmuta  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:02:13pm

re: #577 albusteve

if they are being abused why doesn't he take them away from the cult?...it's a weird half measure...something is better than nothing of course but it seems odd to me that Social Services is not involved

The case is still pending- she may lose the kids, But again- for a father to be awarded even a minor decision in a divorce case is usually indicative of something more going on in the case. It's rare a dad wins anything, and that was my first clue there was more going on here than we were being told in the last report.

589 phoenixgirl  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:02:17pm

i think mom needs some serious help. she needs some deprogramming and the kids need to be with dad. and when mom is better, she should be reintroduced into their lives. until then, dad needs to protect the kids. if mom chooses not to get help, then she shouldn't see the kids until they turn 18 and decide to let her back into their lives.

590 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:02:31pm

re: #580 MandyManners

Yeah, but my point was, I don't care. My wife is stunning, you'd think she looked like Helen Thomas by the she looks at herself.

591 brookly red  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:02:43pm

re: #581 pink freud

It needed doin'.

yeah, but not to me

592 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:02:48pm

re: #586 MandyManners

Then, what's missing in your eyes?

that the mother has custody

593 ConservatismNow!  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:03:19pm

re: #582 razorbacker

Wow. That was rather eloquent

594 Zimriel  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:03:22pm

Speaking of PIMF.

Alan Keyes is the troll to whom I was referring. He's got an opinion on this case. Guess who's side he's on!

595 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:03:31pm

“I didn’t want anybody under my command to die.”

[Link: www.militarytimes.com...]

Staff Sergeant Omar Hernandez is our hero of the week.

596 alegrias  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:03:41pm

re: #580 MandyManners

Things sag on boys, too.

* * *
And viva la difference!

I'd wager women overwhelmingly support the trillion dollar plastic surgery industry in this country.

I admire people who can deal with gravity's ravages like adults instead of like narcissistic body-obsessed navel gazers.

597 jorline  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:03:47pm

re: #548 midwestgak

Does this happen a lot? Not usually here at this hour.

Not a lot...whenever the stars are aligned.

{gak}

598 MandyManners  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:03:47pm

bbiab

599 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:03:51pm

Goodnight folks.

600 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:04:03pm

re: #568 rightymouse

But you chose linguistics as an undergrad?

Fascinating.

And the summer of his third grade year, he preached a two-hour rebuttal of Thomas Aquinas on the steps of St. Peter's.

/while the Pope sat at his feet, gazing up in awe

601 phoenixgirl  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:04:13pm

re: #599 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Goodnight folks.

nite

602 Vicious Babushka  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:04:30pm

re: #498 Pvt Bin Jammin

Maybe he's that poster with the 167 IQ.

The one who played 3D chess? Or twho had a 36DD chest?

603 NYCHardhat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:04:34pm

re: #564 Catttt

Suddenly, I am thinking of Joe Isuzu.


[Video]

My Trooper II went a quarter of a million miles. Needed a tetanus shot to look at it though.

604 Nevergiveup  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:04:45pm

Sometimes it takes fresh eyes to see what others overlook. On March 4th, 251 servicemen and women were sworn in as American citizens. But the oath of citizenship wasn’t conducted in the United States. Instead, it was held where they serve - in Iraq - the 13th such naturalization ceremony held since the beginning of the war. Read, “Troops Earn U.S. Citizenship in Iraq“, and take note of the statements by some of our newest brothers and sisters. They come from 65 different countries, but they already understand what it means to be an American.

[Link: www.militarytimes.com...]

605 midwestgak  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:04:51pm

re: #597 jorline

Not a lot...whenever the stars are aligned.

heh. Thanks for the chuckle.

606 pink freud  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:04:55pm

re: #591 brookly red

Some women seem to have an intrinsic understanding of sexuality. Raquel Welch is one. Pelosi, not so much.

/my apologies, brookly red

607 NYCHardhat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:05:14pm

re: #580 MandyManners

Things sag on boys, too.

She's right...mine is damn near hitting the floor./

608 Emerald  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:06:20pm

re: #568 rightymouse

But you chose linguistics as an undergrad?

Fascinating.

Hey, you're talking to a stellar AP student. Actually being able to write a single grammatically correct sentence is overrated.

609 Luigi  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:06:22pm

Geez. I just saw video of Geithner on Hannity. His nose literally seems to be getting longer.

610 Zimriel  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:06:25pm

re: #606 pink freud

Some women seem to have an intrinsic understanding of sexuality. Raquel Welch is one. Pelosi, not so much.

/my apologies, brookly red

Thanks for mentioning "sexuality" and "Pelosi" in the same context.

I think I've just become gay.

611 Shug  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:06:25pm

re: #507 ConservatismNow!

New topic. Raquel Welch, 68 years old. Hot, smoking or otherwise?

Discuss amongst yourselves.


My reply to you

612 alegrias  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:06:32pm

Speaking of sagging boys, Senator Fred Thompson is on Fox News!

613 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:06:40pm

re: #588 Sharmuta

The case is still pending- she may lose the kids, But again- for a father to be awarded even a minor decision in a divorce case is usually indicative of something more going on in the case. It's rare a dad wins anything, and that was my first clue there was more going on here than we were being told in the last report.

I did not know that more was pending...so this temporary custody order puts them in public schools and that's good...I don't read where the father wants custody...maybe that's a foregone conclusion

614 Sharmuta  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:07:31pm

re: #592 albusteve

that the mother has custody

Again- that may have been a temporary decision. Mothers tend to get temporary custody of kids during divorce proceedings because usually it's the mother who is the primary care giver. That could all change with the final decision.

615 Catttt  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:07:37pm

re: #557 Dustyvet

Oh a pea shooter...;)

Look! SJ made the cover of the NY Times! /

616 NYCHardhat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:08:15pm

re: #507 ConservatismNow!

New topic. Raquel Welch, 68 years old. Hot, smoking or otherwise?

Discuss amongst yourselves.

Older women are better.....IMHO.

617 brookly red  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:08:17pm

re: #606 pink freud

Some women seem to have an intrinsic understanding of sexuality. Raquel Welch is one. Pelosi, not so much.

/my apologies, brookly red

apology accepted... (please allow 72 hours for the order of protection to be reascended).

618 HDrepub  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:08:29pm

re: #607 NYCHardhat

She's right...mine is damn near hitting the floor./

You need to get some Viagra man. It should be watching you shave in the mornings.

619 [deleted]  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:08:30pm
620 FrogMarch  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:08:32pm

“is not a healthy place for kids to grow up[;] it is run by fear and manipulation.... People are constantly beaten down mentally and live a miserable existence....”

Mommy sounds nuts.

621 NYCHardhat  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:09:01pm

re: #618 HDrepub

You need to get some Viagra man. It should be watching you shave in the mornings.

LMAO!

622 Salamantis  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:10:15pm

re: #409 BatGuano

Read them all:

15: Boot camp regime
22: They were "distant:.
23: They were "isolated"
28: Hearsay, not related to Vanessa.
30. Mr. Williams. Not involved.
32. Daniel had to finish his chores before going to the bathroom. Now, I would have let him go. Child abuse?

This guy sound ripe for David Koresh style sexual abuse of the nubile young female children of his captive-audience parishoners. He has already groomed and primed them to accept such an arrangement without much objection. I wouldn't trust him on the other side of an open door with a young girl.

623 Emerald  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:10:43pm

I avoided commenting when this was first posted because my limited experience with divorce courts and reporting convinced me we weren't hearing the whole story. Everything in the original story was so one-sided from the mother, which is common both in divorce hearings and news stories. The additional information certainly justifies the judge's decision.

624 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:10:45pm

re: #614 Sharmuta

I found it...the father indeed wants sole custody...my bad...that certainly changes everything

625 The Shadow Do  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:12:38pm

re: #567 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Ann Margaret is 67, still looks beautiful...

How many staples, stucco, and zippers are holding these ladies together?

Just not afraid of aging... my wife is fighting it like a tiger.

It's good to be a boy, I guess.

Saw Ann two years ago. She still has 'it'

626 albusteve  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:13:58pm

re: #622 Salamantis

This guy sound ripe for David Koresh style sexual abuse of the nubile young female children of his captive-audience parishoners. He has already groomed and primed them to accept such an arrangement without much objection. I wouldn't trust him on the other side of an open door with a young girl.

and another thing...this is not a criminal court so alleged abuse is neither here nor there....the judge can do whatever he sees fit....I think he's stalling for just a little more look see before those kids go to their dad...

627 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:14:19pm

re: #587 Sheepdogess

Noam Chomsky wanna be.

Yep.

Noam Chomsky is a joke among serious linguists. Dad would often remark about Chomsky's gibberish when he was in graduate school.

628 brookly red  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:15:04pm

re: #619 Iron Fist

Lemmy? He's one ugly motherfucker, ain't he?

why how thoughtful....

629 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:15:07pm

re: #622 Salamantis

Who he?

630 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:16:04pm

re: #612 alegrias

Speaking of sagging boys, Senator Fred Thompson is on Fox News!


Hey! I happen to love Fred Thompson.

631 brookly red  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:17:50pm

goat

632 Sharmuta  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:18:19pm

re: #624 albusteve

I found it...the father indeed wants sole custody...my bad...that certainly changes everything

That makes sense, and I wished we'd had this information during the first thread. Regardless, I'm glad I stood up for this man's rights as a parent. That the judge sided with him on the education issues bodes well that the judge will likely give him full custody.

633 Zimriel  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:19:04pm

re: #627 rightymouse

Yep.

Noam Chomsky is a joke among serious linguists. Dad would often remark about Chomsky's gibberish when he was in graduate school.

Kind of like Edward Said among Orientalists...

634 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:22:31pm

re: #223 SpaceJesus

uh, and also Christian Evangelicals?

Go study your history, honey. Early 1900's. Southern states and places like where Truman was born and raised. KKK was rampant in the Democrat party.

Apparently when you were in college, some facts slipped by.

635 Euler  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:25:10pm

re: #43 Salamantis

Compare and contrast.

Sheikh 'Ikrimeh Sabri:

We tell them: in as much as you love life -- the Muslim loves death and martyrdom. There is a great difference between he who loves the hereafter and he who loves this world. The Muslim loves death and [strives for] martyrdom.


Timothy Williams for Sound Doctrine Ministries
:

In order for Jesus to give life to our Bible studies,
we must allow Him to drive nails into our
hands and feet. We too, by the Holy Spirit, must
allow Him to place a crown of thorns upon our
thoughts. We must permit our very hearts and
lives to be taken.
636 Salamantis  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:25:49pm

re: #486 albusteve

bullshit...do you think she has a fair chance to twist this in court and win?....I do...where is the state in this case?...if children are being abused how come SS has not stepped in?...nobody here supports crackpot parents or abusive treatment of children...can the court prevail on appeal?

If the kids are isolated from everyone except the brainwashed mom and her cultish church, who in hell is gonna report abuse?

I'm damn glad the father manned up on this and raised objections with the mother; he was most probably their last chance at protection. Which is why the indoctrinated mother filed the motion to have him excluded. But in her programmed blindness she never figured on the possibility of her own horrified family supporting HIM. Or maybe she was told to do this by the cult church itself, and THEY were blind, or else had gotten away with it before. Regardless, the kids are gonna be a LOT better off now. But I still think that the father should get primary custody; as far as I'm concerned, the mother has abundantly proven that she doesn't deserve it.

637 Cato the Elder  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:26:01pm

"Sound Doctrine."

The name alone says it all.

638 ladycatnip  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:27:18pm

#497 rightymouse

What I objected to was the relationship between Isabella and Wallace, especially the pregnancy, ostensibly by him, and her telling her FIL at his death (which actually occurred much later) that she was bearing Wallace's child. Utter Hollywood fabrication.

The license Gibson took with the historical timeline irritated me as well. The movie was loosely based on The Scottish Chiefs, a novel printed in 1809 by Jane Porter. I read it from cover to cover and there is absolutely no mention of primae noctis, which is still debated by scholars whether or not this took place during the middle ages. Also Wallace died in 1305, and Longshanks' son went to France to marry Isabella in 1308. Little hard for her to have Wallace's child.

639 Zimriel  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:28:17pm

re: #637 Cato the Elder

"Sound Doctrine."

The name alone says it all.

Not really. That's a literal translation of "orthodox" into English.

You can't always judge a book by its cover...

640 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:29:57pm

re: #563 BatGuano

Is anyone familiar with the California textbook, " Through the Centuries"? Its a 7th grade textbook from about 2003?

I'll answer myself. It was a 7th grade textbook from about 2003. My daughters were 7th graders that year. I asked to see that text book. Thae chapter on Islam told the story as if it were fact, Gabriel spoke to Abraham, there were no wars etc.

641 SummerSong  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:30:00pm

re: #505 Nevergiveup

Some little guy on AU is throwing up 3's from all over the place

? AU = gold!

642 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:30:29pm

re: #633 Zimriel

Kind of like Edward Said among Orientalists...

Yep.
I bet it thinks that the Battle of Hastings happened in the Civil War and the Renaissance era happened under Clinton.

643 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:30:35pm

re: #640 BatGuano

this was a government school!.

644 Salamantis  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:31:00pm

re: #523 CharlieBravo

Lost me --- Putting the kids in public school will protect them from the cult?

It will give them time away from the indoctrination, so they can keep connected to the noncult world.

645 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:33:35pm

God protect our children from government schools.

646 Salamantis  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:37:53pm

re: #577 albusteve

if they are being abused why doesn't he take them away from the cult?...it's a weird half measure...something is better than nothing of course but it seems odd to me that Social Services is not involved

For social services to be involved, a report has to be filed. And who would file it? The brainwashed mother? Other members of her cultic church?

The only other person the kids seem to have had sporadic contact with was the father, and the mother, most likely at the church's behest, was endeavoring to end it. But her judicial power play backfired on her, and on her church, due to the testimony of her own family, who were appalled at the drastic changes their sister and daughter had undergone.

647 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:42:43pm

I anyone is interested the real issue here is creationism.

648 rightymouse  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:44:49pm

re: #638 ladycatnip

#497 rightymouse


The license Gibson took with the historical timeline irritated me as well. The movie was loosely based on The Scottish Chiefs, a novel printed in 1809 by Jane Porter. I read it from cover to cover and there is absolutely no mention of primae noctis, which is still debated by scholars whether or not this took place during the middle ages. Also Wallace died in 1305, and Longshanks' son went to France to marry Isabella in 1308. Little hard for her to have Wallace's child.

Was very annoyed by the historical 'license' taken by this movie, mostly because so much is wrong and there are people who watch the movie and may think it's all true, which it is not.

Wallace was executed in 1305 as you point out.

Edward II married Isabella in January 25, 1307/08 (old date time) in France as you noted. He was also bi-sexual. His death was particularly awful.

Longshanks died 1307 in Burgh-on-the-Sands, Near Carlisle.

Haven't researched the 'primae noctis'. Will do that.

649 Salamantis  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:45:51pm

re: #629 BatGuano

Who he?

Timothy Williams, the head of the Sound Doctrine chuch to which the mother belongs. The one who made the sexual remarks about the little girls that can be read in the judge's decision.

650 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:52:09pm

re: #649 Salamantis

What sexual remarks did he make to judge?

651 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 6:58:58pm

line 28?

652 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:00:19pm

re: #651 BatGuano

I tried to copy and paste but it didn't work.

653 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:00:38pm

re: #275 SpaceJesus

I don't know what homeschooler pissed in your Wheaties way back when, but I sense nothing but irrational seething rage and hatred from you on this.

I don't need or want to listen to shit like this and I doubt anyone else here does either...frankly, why don't you do us all a favor and go for your martyr cookie already...

654 Cato the Elder  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:10:55pm

re: #639 Zimriel

Not really. That's a literal translation of "orthodox" into English.

You can't always judge a book by its cover...

Not really. "Orthodox" means "straight opinion" - straight in the sense of "true". Hence "orthodontia" - straight teeth.

And in the modern American context, a sect calling itself "Sound Doctrine" should set off all kinds of alarms. It would be prima facie reason for me not to rent to them.

655 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:13:02pm

My last word on this subject. All your children belong to the government.

656 Macker  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:18:57pm

re: #162 reine.de.tout

Not me, I hope?

No. Charles Manson.

657 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:26:31pm

re: #655 BatGuano

My last word on this subject. All your children belong to the government.

No, but they do belong to both parents,* and one parent appears to be trying to take the children away from the other parent. Read the decision.

*usual caveats about non-abusive, etc.

658 Sharmuta  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:26:59pm

re: #655 BatGuano

My last word on this subject. All your children belong to the government.

That is just not true! I'm sorry but the public schools, for all their flaws, are better for these kids than an abusive situation. Children can and do survive public schools. Also bear in mind the worst public schools are usually inner-city schools, and that's not what these children will be attending. These kids will be fine.

Also- this is not about creationism- this is about parental rights, and the parent who shows they're more capable of providing stability and a decent environment to raise the children is likely the parent that's going to win custody. In this case, it is imperative to the well being of the children to not be in an environment where they can be abused. The dad simply must fight for his children if he's a good father at all. And in this case the children are lucky they have a dad who cares about them. A caring Dad can really make a difference in a kid's life.

659 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:31:31pm

re: #657 EmmmieG

I Read the decision.

660 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:32:49pm

re: #658 Sharmuta

The children were sent to the government school.

661 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:34:35pm

See my #563

662 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:42:03pm

re: #659 BatGuano

Just so you understand where I am coming from:

I am a homeschooler.

I am pro-parent's rights.

I have a cousin whose wife and her family went into a cult, and he's used up his parents' savings just to try and get the visitation he has.

I had a friend, years back, who was supposed to have died at Jonestown. Her mother was hiding her from her father, who was the cult member.

I realize all of this is personal and not factual. When your own family is testifying it's a cult, there is a problem, and it isn't the homeschooling. HSLDA wouldn't touch this one, which shows you just how much it isn't actually about homeschooling.

If Mommy was my sister, I would tell her to go to a real church, repair the damage to her marriage, and ask if she can't homeschool using Calvert or some other neutral curriculum.

663 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:49:48pm

re: #662 EmmmieG

It is settled. The children are in government school where they can learn ( as my children did before I corrected them) about Muhammad and Gabriel. See #640.

664 Emerald  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:57:54pm

I'm really, really trying to understand the logic that allowing children to remain in an abusive cult with absolutely no contact with one parent is preferential to letting the children go to a public school. If there is something a parent objects to in the public school's curriculum, the parent has choices. They can complain to the school board; they can send their child to private school or opt to homeschool; they can take the radical step of explaining to the child that what they're learning is a viewpoint and expose them to the alternative. The child in the cult has none of these options, and any step to interfere with the brainwashing is likely to result in severe and possibly permanent injury.

665 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:58:02pm

Ok, she is in a cult. Her children are in government school. The children will no longer be creationists. Everything has been righted,

666 Salamantis  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 7:59:42pm

re: #663 BatGuano

It is settled. The children are in government school where they can learn ( as my children did before I corrected them) about Muhammad and Gabriel. See #640.

The children are in public school, where they will not be brainwashed into a religious cult, but will be taught math, science, english, and history.

667 Salamantis  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:01:15pm

re: #665 BatGuano

Ok, she is in a cult. Her children are in government school. The children will no longer be creationists. Everything has been righted,

They may indeed remain creationists. But now that choice is up to them to make for themselves. It wasn't up to them to make before.

668 Sharmuta  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:01:52pm

re: #665 BatGuano

Well, we don't know just yet. Should the father win custody, he might put the kids in a different school- private, charter, who knows. But in the mean time, the court does see the public schools as a neutral choice until the entire matter is decided.

669 Ben G. Hazi  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:06:25pm

re: #535 hazzyday

Stop jacking off then and the world will be the better place you seek.

All SpaceJesus has been doing in this thread has been mental masturbation...makes him feel good, but leaves a mess all over the place...

670 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:06:53pm

re: #664 Emerald

All parents should send there children to government schools where they can get good educations. I recommend the Washington DC school system. Washington DC spends more per student than any other state and the results speak for itself.

671 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:13:54pm

re: #670 BatGuano

All parents should send there children to government schools where they can get good educations. I recommend the Washington DC school system. Washington DC spends more per student than any other state and the results speak for itself.

Homeschooling is not so important that these children should have been cut off from their father and raised in a "religion" that uses fear and manipulation as a tool.

672 Emerald  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:16:39pm

re: #670 BatGuano
How is a public school worse than child abuse? Please answer the question.

673 Salamantis  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:17:57pm

re: #650 BatGuano

What sexual remarks did he make to judge?

He made his sexual remarks about the children in the hearing of duly sworn court witnesses, Jessica Gambill and Tina Wasik, who could go to prison for 5 years if they are found to have lied (perjury).

[Link: www.newsobserver.com...]

27. Jessica Gambill stated under oath that "Veness Mills has told me that she would like to move to Washington, but that "It's not God's will right now." The court finds this as a fact.

28. She added, "After I joined Sound Doctrine, Tim Williams [the leader of the cultic Sound Doctrine church] told me that my oldest daughter (then age 120 was the kind of girl men would take advntage of, that my middle daughter (then age 7) was the kind of girl that would sleep with any guy, and that my youngest daughter (age 4) was the kind of girl that would use her looks to seduce men."

29. Tina Wasik also addd "Timothy once told us that our daughter Jessica was the type of girl who would probably end up trying to seduce a pastor. She was 7 years old at the time!"

30. Further Jessica gambill stated in her affidavit that "Mr. William directed me to develop a "boot camp style" program to instill better manners in my children. The point of this program, ccording to Mr. Williams, should be to "break" the children and to establish my authority as a parent, so that the children would obey me right away. The program that I ultimately devised, and that Mr. Williams approved, involved waking the children up in the middle of the night to do push-ups and physical exercises, and screming at them "boot camp style." This program lasted approximately one month. My children were ages 11, 7, and 4 at the time. During this month of 'training", my middle child became stressed out to the point of throwing up. When I informed Mr. Williams that she was stressed out and needed to lie down and rest, he told me that she did not need rest, but she needed work and tht I needed to "break her."

674 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:18:29pm

re: #672 Emerald

How is a public school worse than child abuse? Please answer the question.

BatGuano (I don't know if this is Ms. BatGuano or Mr. BatGuano) has already stated that they don't see child abuse here, even in the urination incident.

675 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:19:53pm

re: #672 Emerald

It's not.

676 Salamantis  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:20:11pm

re: #670 BatGuano

All parents should send there children to government schools where they can get good educations. I recommend the Washington DC school system. Washington DC spends more per student than any other state and the results speak for itself.

My guess is that you are being sarcastic, and you would actually prefer the children to continue to be abused by a cult.

If this cult did not claim to be Christian, would your opinion change? But Jim Jones and David Koresh claimed to be Christian, and look what they did.

677 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:23:04pm
678 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:27:26pm

Makes for long fuse meltdowns.

679 Emerald  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:27:29pm

re: #675 BatGuano

It's not.

Then I doubt you actually read the incident or you have a very different view of abuse than is normal.

680 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:27:50pm

None of these questionsre: #674 EmmmieG

I did say that I would not allowed that to happen.

681 Sharmuta  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:33:34pm

re: #675 BatGuano

Have you read the court's finding of fact? This is utterly horrid what this woman has done to her children! She should lose custody of them, they should be in a normal school setting. DO NOT side with this abusive bitch because of your bias against public schools- she is not the martyr you are making her out to be. She is a bitch!

682 Sharmuta  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:34:46pm

She caused her child to piss himself! She is a horrible woman!

683 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:37:26pm

I think think it is interesting that I got my highest Karma rating on this very subject .And there are cowards who do not comment but down-ding. What is happening here?

684 paradox42  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:37:36pm

re: #681 Sharmuta

Losing custody is not enough.

She should be locked away where she can never hurt anyone again.

685 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:41:11pm

re: #684 paradox42

Losing custody is not enough.

She should be locked away where she can never hurt anyone again.

Are you being sarcastic? That's a serious question.

686 Sharmuta  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:41:16pm

re: #683 BatGuano

Please stop defending this woman- she is horrible.

687 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:41:19pm

Stunning moral equivalence, that attending public school is put on the same level as child abuse. That children being saved from a cult is to be lamented.

Bat, you need to reevaluate your stance. Perhaps you should stick with your proclamation in your #655 post and take some time to think about this.

688 paradox42  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:43:48pm

re: #685 EmmmieG

I'm dead serious.

I have no compassion for people who abuse children.

689 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:44:09pm

Ire: #681 Sharmuta

She is not a martyr, and I ever said she was! And and I think the word "bitch" is offensive.

690 Sharmuta  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:45:06pm

re: #689 BatGuano

I

She is not a martyr, and I ever said she was! And and I think the word "bitch" is offensive.

The other word I have in mind for her is not allowed on this blog.

691 BatGuano  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:45:40pm

re: #688 paradox42

I'm dead serious.

I have no compassion for people who abuse children.

I have no compassion for those who abuse children.

692 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:49:03pm

re: #688 paradox42

I'm dead serious.

I have no compassion for people who abuse children.

She was once a good mother; I think she could be again, if she could get free of this cult. I'm not defending her--her children's best interests lie in her becoming whole again and getting free from the brainwashing. They are bonded to her; the relationship is not trivial.

693 paradox42  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 8:53:42pm

re: #692 EmmmieG

I don't believe in giving second chances to people who are cruel to children. I will admit I have had personal experience that colors my views on the subject, but that's the way I feel.

694 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 9:01:10pm

Good evening, Lynn.

695 Lynn B.  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 9:05:43pm

Hi EmmmieG! How are you doing?

696 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 9:06:07pm

Sitting here watching LGF and working on my arthropod lesson for tomorrow.

697 Sharmuta  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 9:07:54pm

re: #693 paradox42

I don't believe in giving second chances to people who are cruel to children. I will admit I have had personal experience that colors my views on the subject, but that's the way I feel.

I too have a bias, and won't apologize for it. Reading the decision, I am mortified by this judge. He has granted joint custody in all matters to both parents. If this was a man doing these horrible things to these kids, there is no way in hell the courts would allow any such father joint custody of the kids.

I still see the misandry of the system. Sad. These kids were poorly served.

698 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 9:17:20pm

re: #210 rightymouse

You're kidding, right? Was that supposed to be a cogent answer? If so, did you know that most KKK members were southern democrats?

That's not exactly a cogent answer either. I assume nearly all of them would have identified themselves as Christians, which I assume is SpaceYehoshua's point. (Can I call you Josh, SJ?)

But people I would call Christians don't consider the KKK, er, fellow travelers.

699 SanFranciscoZionist  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 9:21:19pm

re: #234 Zimriel

I wonder if Charles can create a feature by which comments are only enabled if you download the relevant PDF...

This Sound Doctrine church demands its members call Tim Williams variants of "mom" and "dad". Williams commented about the four year old: "she's going to grow up using her looks to seduce men". And, that the seven year old might try to seduce Williams himself. This is a disgusting creature.

Williams needs to be in prison already.

I realize we have this pesky legal system, but I tend to agree. No one is going to convince me that a man who's sizing up pre-school aged girls for their future sexual sins is not also molesting. I really hope someone with a badge is keeping a close, close watch on this character.

700 Syrah  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 9:26:34pm

re: #177 SpaceJesus

I rely on good old empirical evidence of every single one I have ever met, lived with or worked with. They are socially retarded to the point where their basic communication skills, not to mention higher-level stuff like creativity and humor are completely absent. I'm not knocking them. I feel extremely sorry for them.

You set a hell of an example for them.

701 nom de boom  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 9:44:36pm

Well, I for one am not too proud to admit I was taken in by the initial coverage of this story. (Guilty of my own charge of prejudice, I'm afraid) I'm still somewhat suspicious of judicial activism because of the narrow parameters of the judge's decision, vis a vis mandating a specific mode of education, but I can understand that he might have done so out of exasperation at the parents' inability to agree on what sort of school their kids would attend. For me, the bottom line is that these waters are murky at best, and I will be leery of anyone who appears to want to make hay out of this before turbidity decreases.
Also, I don't know if anyone has posted this, but the News and Observer has posted audio of Judge Mangum reading the gist of his decision, explaining it (briefly), and fielding a couple of questions from the Mom and her lawyer.
Here's the link

702 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 9:45:28pm

re: #699 SanFranciscoZionist

Seriously, what kind of person conceptualizes children in such a sexual manner? That just ain't right.

703 Emerald  Thu, Mar 19, 2009 9:57:39pm

re: #691 BatGuano

Apparently, you do, as you are standing up for a woman who wants her children locked inside an abusive cult.

704 Sharmuta  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 1:48:09am

re: #357 funky chicken

[Link: www.newsobserver.com...]

How horrifying. This woman is a prime candidate to kidnap these kids and run off to cult headquarters with them.

I agree- she should not have been given joint custody. She is a flight risk.

705 Sharmuta  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 2:35:21am

re: #409 BatGuano

32. Daniel had to finish his chores before going to the bathroom. Now, I would have let him go. Child abuse?

I know you wrote this hours ago, perhaps you've changed your mind on this woman's abuse of her children. Perhaps you haven't. I cannot express the horror I felt when I read of this incident, but I'm going to say this:

Any parent who uses the toilet as a means to control a child is a sick, deprived person. This child knew to use the toilet. This child was shamed with their own normal bodily functions into thinking they'd done something wrong. The only thing this child did was get "caught" doing chores when the need to urinate came upon him. This woman intentionally disregarded her child's needs simply so she could be a tyrant.

My heart breaks for this boy. It's hard enough on kids when they have accidents- they feel ashamed of themselves, and it can be tough getting them to stop being embarrassed. But his mother did this to him intentionally! Toilet training is one of the first things a parent does to teach their child self reliance, and she wields it like a weapon! I cannot stress this enough. Imagine you are small and at the whim of an adult authority figure who dictates your bladder function. If you can't see the depravity of this, I just don't know what else to say about it. She's a sick mom. And btw- no public school teacher would get away with such treatment of a child in their care.

I suppose if one's never been involved or at least become intimately acquainted with an abuser who uses the toilet as a reward and punishment, then it might be difficult to see how terribly abusive and degrading the reported incident might be to others. I am utterly horrified by this incident, and likewise horrified this judge gave this abuser joint custody.

Other than that- I have to say I feel a little vindicated in my previous comments about this case. I hope the father keeps plugging away and can eventually get full custody and I hope this mom gets help.

706 DoesNotMatter  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 5:01:57am

And shit like this is why I think that allowing homeschooling is an stupid idea, as are denomination only schools.

Children can't make an informed decision about belief or indeed almost anything and allowing fundamental of any stripe to be the sole providers of education is ruining the children subjected to their abuses.

Sect members should loose custody for any children they produce.

707 locogalt  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 5:47:59am

ahhh socialist mind control advocated in the name of the children.

I think back to the crap i was taught in public school and laugh, these people disturb me too but to say that the child cant learn to think independently is BS.
Some will some wont, but to say that the government should have complete control over what we are taught is beyond ridicule.

this story should be more geared to the idea of don't marry and procreate with morons.

708 Bubblehead II  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 5:58:09am

Karma: 6

DoesNotMatter

Registered since: Nov 25, 2007 at 12:15 pm
No. of comments posted: 35
No. of links posted: 3

Karma: 3

locogalt

(Logged in)
Registered since: Oct 11, 2008 at 7:02 pm
No. of comments posted: 11
No. of links posted: 5

Fucking Trolls

709 reine.de.tout  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 6:08:17am

re: #706 DoesNotMatter

And shit like this is why I think that allowing homeschooling is an stupid idea, as are denomination only schools.

Children can't make an informed decision about belief or indeed almost anything and allowing fundamental of any stripe to be the sole providers of education is ruining the children subjected to their abuses.

Sect members should loose custody for any children they produce.

The issue here isn't homeschooling or private schools vs. public schools.

The issue here is the mother's custody and decision-making about these kids while the mom is under the influence of a cult that appears to promote the abuse of children.

You sound like SpaceJesus who believes all kids should go to public school so that the state, through the education system, can rid kids of the evil influence of their parents. Now, that's a cult mind-set of a different kind than this mom's.

710 locogalt  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 6:19:07am

bubblehead
what about my comment makes me a troll .
the fact that i post so little isn't trollish its a dislike of the accusation of expressing my opinion being trollish.

the fact that my beliefs in evolution lead me to LGF. My post was directly related to the topic and in reference to several comments in the thread
that isn't trolling that's discussion. unclench your fists a little

711 MandyManners  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 6:34:18am

re: #707 locogalt

ahhh socialist mind control advocated in the name of the children.

I think back to the crap i was taught in public school and laugh, these people disturb me too but to say that the child cant learn to think independently is BS.
Some will some wont, but to say that the government should have complete control over what we are taught is beyond ridicule.

this story should be more geared to the idea of don't marry and procreate with morons.

Good luck forcing the court to focus on that.

712 MandyManners  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 6:40:06am

re: #706 DoesNotMatter

And shit like this is why I think that allowing homeschooling is an stupid idea, as are denomination only schools.

Children can't make an informed decision about belief or indeed almost anything and allowing fundamental of any stripe to be the sole providers of education is ruining the children subjected to their abuses.

Sect members should loose custody for any children they produce.

I take it English is not your first language. If it is, which school taught you basic grammar? You seem to have trouble with basics.

713 Sharmuta  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 6:45:06am

re: #710 locogalt

bubblehead
what about my comment makes me a troll .
the fact that i post so little isn't trollish its a dislike of the accusation of expressing my opinion being trollish.

the fact that my beliefs in evolution lead me to LGF. My post was directly related to the topic and in reference to several comments in the thread
that isn't trolling that's discussion. unclench your fists a little

Both of your comments make no sense to me whatsoever. Who exactly were you directing your comments towards? Who was saying the government should have complete control over what children are taught? What comment #? Where in the linked information did you see where this mother was acting like a moron before her children were born? Are you sticking up for the dad who asked the children be placed in public schools where they'd learn about evolution, or were you sticking up for homeschooling?

714 locogalt  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 7:15:10am

well there are several posts that i was referring to but the #706 would be the one that actually brought me into the conversation.
The second post was in direct response to #708
i am sorry if my lack of posting skill lead to a misunderstanding but that too would indicate that I'm not a troll as they are much more familiar with the format.

Who was saying the government should have complete control over what children are taught? Dosenotmatter #706

Where in the linked information did you see where this mother was acting like a moron before her children were born?
in the previous thread, linked in this thread in the first 2 words the couples background is eluded to in the time frame of the homeschooling.
Are you sticking up for the dad who asked the children be placed in public schools where they'd learn about evolution, or were you sticking up for homeschooling? the father doesn't need sticking up for she took him to court not the other way around he won. the right to home school is worth fighting for despite the fact that it can be abused as this lady seems to have done. again the comment in 706 being my primary disagreement was assuming that bad ideas are not taught in public schools .

ah still scatterbrained time to get some sleep

715 Sharmuta  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 7:25:50am

re: #714 locogalt

We have these little blue words by the nics, "reply" and "quote". They are useful functions with which you should get acquainted. That certainly would have helped in understanding what you were trying to get across. You did poorly.

As for any signs of this woman being a "moron" in your words, I saw nothing to suggest that prior to her involvement in this cult that she displayed any sign that she was capable of abuse. And I say this as one who did nothing but defend the father previously.

716 lurking faith  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 8:13:00am

re: #683 BatGuano

I think think it is interesting that I got my highest Karma rating on this very subject .And there are cowards who do not comment but down-ding. What is happening here?

Here's why I've down-dinged you: You are so focused on bitching about the inadequacies of public schools, that you don't seem to care that the mother is trying to drag her kids with her into what looks like a sicko cult.

(I also don't like that you seem to be blaming Charles for some people's propensity to post an opinion before reading up on the facts. If anybody doesn't have the self-control to read the linked story before posting on the thread, that's their problem, and any flak they take for getting it wrong is fully deserved.)

We have here a case in which the mother has attempted to strip her husband of ALL rights concerning their children; the mother is known to have abused one child by forcing him to pee himself; the mother is deeply involved in what appears to be a cult (and not incidentally, exposing her daughter to an adult male who views little girls sexually); the mother's new religion is known to advocate "breaking" children; the children are afraid of their mother and can't have a normal conversation even with people they have known for years; and the mother's own closest family and friends think she is currently a danger to the children. (Not only that, but the mother's attorney wants to be removed from being her attorney-of-record. Do you realize how bad a plaintiff's case has to be before most attorneys will make such a request?)

I totally support home-schooling by any reasonably competent parent, and on the previous thread on this case, I came out strongly against forcing the kids into public schools if they were indeed thriving, but with the facts as laid out in the judge's finding, the kids are NOT thriving. The mother also has no right to remove them from the influence and care of a good father.

I most certainly do not support leaving kids completely under the control of an emotional abuser (even if the mother doesn't realize that this is what she's become).

I am very glad that the mother has been ordered for evaluation very soon. I hope that she does not try to kidnap the kids to Washington in the meantime.

717 StillAMarine  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 8:35:02am

This incident opens up a sticky wicket in that making one's decision between seeing home schooling as a basic right of all parents to decide their children's education or as a means of parents to overly restrict and control what their children experience in their formative years is not an easy one. For example, we would like our children to to be free of indoctrination by leftist public schools, but some use the privilege of home schooling to brainwash and abuse their children in what most of us might view as a strange, cultist philosophy. Child abuse is definitely over the line, but I am unsure of just where the line is.

The whole subject is very difficult.

718 locogalt  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 8:35:13am

re: #715 Sharmuta

lol that's how that works

people don't suddenly become morons when they join a cult causality would force a conclusion that they join a cult because there morons, or mentally ill.

i understand if you would argue that point but that is enough at least to leave me with the impression that the mother was a moron in the first place.

in saying that people should not procreate and marry morons i am simply trying to say that a person should know the philosophical leanings of there prospective mate, which obviously was overlooked in this relationship.

P.S. thanks for the lesson

719 locogalt  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 8:39:20am

re: #711 MandyManners


i was more hoping that people would focus on that
but good luck indeed

720 Sharmuta  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 9:05:47am

re: #718 locogalt

I think I understand your point. But then- every divorce, with or without children involved, should be a lesson in mating. People make mistakes, and after going through this with his kids, I'm not going to beat this man up for not having the best ability to pick a mate. Most people can say they've been there, done that.

721 jimc  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 9:58:27am

re: #717 StillAMarine

We homeschool our children and we root each subject in Christian values but we do also strongly believe in our freedom to raise our children how we want and with our own values not the values of the state.

It is a very dangerous thing to hand over power like that over to the state for ANY reason, even if a few abuse the right, we must take great care to ensure our freedoms are protected. You're correct in that liberal agenda has invaded the public schools, in fact the public school system itself is a product of socialism, empowered now by a left leaning academia.

We don't have any "cult" like things like this case had but that is a relative thing. In fact, some on here would probably go so far as call my family and I cultist because we teach our children a Biblical view of creation. That alone is enough to send some off the deep end calling for state intervention...so while I agree, this case sounds like the mother involved the children in a cult, she and her children should not be the target, the cult should be. How can a judge deem the mother has involved the children in a cult and decide against her and not address the cult itself. Seems to me that would be a ruling that could be easily overturned. The judge should have deferred to local authorities to determine the legal status of the cult and if found to breaking laws, taken action against the "church" not the mother. Until this "church" has broken any laws, this judge in my opinion is in error.

As much as I disagree with other mainstream religions, I would defend their right to practice their religion without interference from the state except in cases where laws were broken...

722 BatGuano  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 10:01:04am

re: #716 lurking faith

I apologize to everyone who witnessed my rude, offensive illogical posts on this thread. I was wrong all the way. I finally read back through my posts and realized I needed to invoke the Iron Fist rule.
I worked hard for every down-ding and deserved every one. The irony: After reading the ruling again in a more "rational" state, the Judge made the correct ruling.

723 Salamantis  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 10:08:58am

re: #721 jimc

How can a local family court judge's ruling in North Carolina have any power whatsoever on a church based in Washington State?

Answer: it can't. The church is not within the court's legal jurisdiction. Nor is it within a family court's legal purview. The family, however, IS. On both counts.

The judge is doing what he can for the welfare of these children, given the scope and parameters of his powers.

724 Sharmuta  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 10:09:56am

re: #721 jimc

You contradict yourself when you say we should defend our rights but then turn around and call for the judiciary to intervene where they do not have the authority to do so. Which is it- defend our right to Free Exercise, or open up judicial activism?

In this case, the judge was charged with making a determination about which party should be given custody of these children. Since the mother was/is abusing these kids, she lost. While her involvement with a cult apparently is playing a role in her abuse, it doesn't change the fact she's abusing her kids nor that the state in this case has the authority to remove children from such conditions- regardless of the role any religion is playing into the situation.

725 jimc  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 10:11:42am

re: #723 Salamantis

Well I must not have read the news correctly, I was under the impression it was a local church...regardless the precedent must be taken very seriously.

726 jimc  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 10:13:51am

re: #724 Sharmuta

No you misread what I said. I said unless the church is breaking any laws, then how can a judge use or even mention it in the case? If she was abusing her kids, that ok, make that case, but unless the church has broken laws, it was wrong to even bring it up...

727 Sharmuta  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 10:23:37am

re: #725 jimc

Well I must not have read the news correctly, I was under the impression it was a local church...regardless the precedent must be taken very seriously.

You obviously didn't. It was the mother who pressed the religion issue because she wanted the father kept out of it.

728 Salamantis  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 10:31:37am

re: #726 jimc

No you misread what I said. I said unless the church is breaking any laws, then how can a judge use or even mention it in the case? If she was abusing her kids, that ok, make that case, but unless the church has broken laws, it was wrong to even bring it up...

According to sworn testimony, this church has been instructing its brainwashed indoctrinees to abuse their own children. By your standards, Charles Manson would never have gone to prison, because he didn't personally commit any murders; he just told others to commit them. And by the same token, had they survived the self-started fire and the mass cyanide drinking, the cases againt David Koresh and Jim Jones would have been dismissed.

729 jimc  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 10:36:08am

After reading the court papers, it is clear this woman was not acting in the interest of her family or the husband and given the husband's right, I think I was in error in my original comment regarding the judge's decision.

But on a broader scale, matters of homeschooling is a fundamental right, especially when both parents are in accord. When they are not, however, that can be very difficult and I feel the judge did the right thing. I still think this cult needs to be looked at by appropriate authorities to makes sure no laws are being broken.

730 jimc  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 10:44:59am

re: #728 Salamantis

No that's not my standards at all. Please stop twisting my words. David Koresh was breaking the law and the authorities has legal reason to intervene (they just screwed up the op). I don't know about the Jones case specifics.

However, my point is and was that it is dangerous to allow any one person or group to label another's religion as a cult and the state take action without specific laws being broken or suspicion of illegal activity. Now since this "church" clearly teaches abuse (in this case clearly seemed like abuse but some believe spanking as a form of punishment is abuse so great care must be taken there as well), then yes there was valid reason to intervene and I think this church and any member should still should be investigated for abuses and fraud.

731 BatGuano  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 10:50:37am

re: #729 jimc

I think I fell into the same trap. I am all for homeschooling and I am against judicial activism. I had blinders on in my earlier posts (aided by a fine California Napa Valley wine) but I realized that a cult can be more dangerous than a public school system. The Judge had to weigh all factors and make a decision that was in the best interests of the children. After reviewing the decision in a more lucid state, I had to agree that the Judge made the right decision based on the facts presented to him.

732 Salamantis  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 10:53:57am

Just fyi, jimc, here's some information about Jim Jones and the Peoples Temple, responsible for the deaths of 918 people:

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

I strongly concur that this church is very bad mojo. Here is one of their brochures; I found it to be marrow-chilling:

[Link: carriedcross.org...]

733 BatGuano  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 11:13:26am

re: #730 jimc

Speaking of spanking (besides some men paying good money for it), when I was in 6th grade in Oklahoma, the "paddle" was in clear view of us students.
I had occasion to meet the paddle on several occasions. It had holes in it because I think my teacher liked to hear the wind blow through it when administered; or the holes were there to decrease air resistance and increase velocity at the expense of mass.
In any case I do not believe that I was abused when it was used on me. But had been done to my children (illegal in California), I would have initiated assault charges on those who did it. I now think that corporal punishment is reserved to the parents, consonant with local law and conscience. My application of corporal punishment on my three girls has been limited to a light swat on the butt.

734 Mostly sane, most of the time.  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 11:13:33am

Learning to love at Sound Doctrine is a tough
road, full of many bruises. Like Jesus, who was
bruised so that we might be healed, the great joy
and love at Sound Doctrine Church results from
us being bruised with Christ.

Whoa. I would think this brochure would be admissable as evidence.

735 BatGuano  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 11:15:45am

re: #732 Salamantis

My marrow has gone sub-zero.

736 lurking faith  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 12:20:49pm

re: #722 BatGuano

Definitely, the Iron Fist rule is there for all our sakes!

This blog comes without training wheels, so posting while impaired or without full facts tends to bring swift reactions.

Very few of us make it through our first year without some kind of Stupid Lizard Trick. We learn, we grow, we molt and show off our shiny new skin!

737 BatGuano  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 12:57:04pm

re: #736 lurking faith

Definitely, the Iron Fist rule is there for all our sakes!

This blog comes without training wheels, so posting while impaired or without full facts tends to bring swift reactions.

Very few of us make it through our first year without some kind of Stupid Lizard Trick. We learn, we grow, we molt and show off our shiny new skin!

Thank you. I got so comfortable (and Belligerent) and did not know what I was posting. Iron Fist is a wise man/woman. I'm learning. Thank you for understanding. :-)

738 BatGuano  Fri, Mar 20, 2009 12:59:27pm

re: #737 BatGuano

Also, my apology extends to everyone working in the public school systems. I meant no offense. I am growing.

739 Ayeless in Ghazi  Sat, Mar 21, 2009 6:58:23am

re: #113 SpaceJesus

Well I never said it was, but unfortunately in America, the vast majority of religious fundamentalism does emanate from Evangelical Christian communities, societies and churches

This comment - a plain statement of fact - gets downdinged because?

Pathetic.


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