Who is John Galt?

they should have told them to FO.

Ah yes, theft by Congressional Extortion. The Anti-American way.

Hope!

re: #2 redc1c4

they should have told them to FO.

AD.

Isn't that like financial water-boarding?

can't u go to jail for extortion?

so, how are things in Atlanta, Charles?

Pretty soon the Obama youth will be able to extort people to do anything the big O wants.

Thanks Charles.

Amazing how a guy charged with enforcing laws in the state of New York is so willing to adopt the practices of mobsters and thugs to win political points.

First they came for the executives...

So much for law and order in the United States. Thugs are running (and ruining) the country.

The state extorts money from private citizens, now that is messed up. We truly are living in bizarre times...

re: #6 badger1970

Isn't that like financial water-boarding?

Updings a plenty for that one.

re: #1 Milk in a Box

Who is John Galt?

Most folks don't know who John Galt is. There be the problem.

Neo-Bolshevism. That is what I call it.

Conn AG also is threatening AIG employees.

My employer is being harassed by the Conn. AG. I sit next to our legal department so am knowledgeable about what is going on.

It's amazing what a douchebag gov't officials are. Very dishonest. Their crimes aren't taking cash bribes, it's harassing private businesses. Demanding incredible amounts of internal documents to use on a fishing expedition.

For all you 52% out there that heard Obama was going to Fundamentally Change America and didn't seem to mind...is this fundamental enough for ya?
I can't wait till they come to get your shit. Hell, as a matter of fact I may even help.
/ Stupid Fucksticks.

Atlas wept...

re: #17 Dave the...

Conn AG also is threatening AIG employees.

My employer is being harassed by the Conn. AG. I sit next to our legal department so am knowledgeable about what is going on.

It's amazing what a douchebag gov't officials are. Very dishonest. Their crimes aren't taking cash bribes, it's harassing private businesses. Demanding incredible amounts of internal documents to use on a fishing expedition.

And here I thought the states were starting to become useless. Seems I was wrong.

Amazing how a guy charged with enforcing laws in the state of New York is so willing to adopt the practices of mobsters and thugs to win political points.

Yes, see my #7.

re: #16 rawmuse

Neo-Bolshevism. That is what I call it.

retro-Mafiaism

I would have taken the money and moved to the Caymans.

re: #10 karmic_inquisitor

Thanks Charles.

Amazing how a guy charged with enforcing laws in the state of New York is so willing to adopt the practices of mobsters and thugs to win political points.

Don't be surprised by this from Andrew Cuomo.

He was Clinton's HUD hit man that used your FedGov's powers to subvert the Second Amendment when lawmakers and the courts wouldn't do their dirty work.

IOW, he's absolutely USED to doing "business" this way.

re: #17 Dave the...

Conn AG also is threatening AIG employees.

My employer is being harassed by the Conn. AG. I sit next to our legal department so am knowledgeable about what is going on.

It's amazing what a douchebag gov't officials are. Very dishonest. Their crimes aren't taking cash bribes, it's harassing private businesses. Demanding incredible amounts of internal documents to use on a fishing expedition.

bury them in compliance: send them everything, all mixed together, with no index.

re: #10 karmic_inquisitor

Thanks Charles.

Amazing how a guy charged with enforcing laws in the state of New York is so willing to adopt the practices of mobsters and thugs to win political points.

Yeah, where does he think he is... New Jersey?

Don't bother trying to keep up with the Jones. Merely report them to the Police and the mob will do the rest.

re: #13 jimc

The state extorts money from private citizens, now that is messed up. We truly are living in bizarre times...

New? Tried not paying taxes, or arguing with the IRS?

re: #27 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Don't bother trying to keep up with the Jones. Merely report them to the Police and the mob will do the rest.

Our new era of change : Punish Wealth.

re: #28 OldLineTexan

New? Tried not paying taxes, or arguing with the IRS?

yes...they extorted alot of money from me then cut me loose

Resignation letter from an AIG exec:

I can no longer effectively perform my duties in this dysfunctional environment, nor am I being paid to do so. Like you, I was asked to work for an annual salary of $1, and I agreed out of a sense of duty to the company and to the public officials who have come to its aid. Having now been let down by both, I can no longer justify spending 10, 12, 14 hours a day away from my family for the benefit of those who have let me down...

The only real motivation that anyone at A.I.G.-F.P. now has is fear. Mr. Cuomo has threatened to “name and shame,” and his counterpart in Connecticut, Richard Blumenthal, has made similar threats — even though attorneys general are supposed to stand for due process, to conduct trials in courts and not the press...

I’m not sure how you will greet my resignation, but at least Attorney General Blumenthal should be relieved that I’ll leave under my own power and will not need to be “shoved out the door.”

Mark Steyn comments on the letter: [Link: corner.nationalreview.com...]

Government employees using the power of the state to extort private citizens.
...
"I'm shocked, shocked that there is gambling in Casablanca."

I can't wait until the Democrats and Dear Leader Obama reap the whirlwind of their stupidity...

re: #26 Zimriel

Yeah, where does he think he is... New Jersey?

Hey, hey, hey!
/

Do they get a unicorn in exchange for returning their bonus?

href="[Link: radioviceonline.com...] target="_blank">And now they're quitting.

He agreed to a $1 per year salary while dismantling AIG. He was pretty much doing a service, and he's donating all of his bonus to charity. But now he's quitting because the government is treating him like trash.

Once again, who is John Galt?

Dear AIG:

In the age of manufactured celebrity and Media-elected Presidents, please be aware that you can be right, look wrong, and lose big.

Depending on who your friends are, and what they want, that is.

I'm thinking now that most of the largest bonuses have been returned they may back off on passing that law. Internal politics withing AIG is going to be very tense between those who returned their bonuses and those who tried to hold on to them. The ones who tried to hold on may find themselves pushed out soon.

re: #33 jimc

I can't wait until the Democrats and Dear Leader Obama reap the whirlwind of their stupidity...

Yes, but it won't just be the Dems and Obama who receive it. We all will.

Hope and change!

re: #32 jaunte

Government employees using the power of the state to extort private citizens.
...
"I'm shocked, shocked that there is gambling in Casablanca."

Ramirez does it again.

I am not happy about the government coming in and taking those back or threatening to "tax them back". On the other hand, AIG would be out of business if the Feds did not give them all that money and there would be no pay, let alone bonus' for these guys. I am not sure of all the facts on the ground, but why do they get a bonus when the company they work for has basically hit an iceberg and would be out of business right now if the government did not come in and bail them out? I realize that only one division of AIG was to blame for most of it's fiscal problems, but does that matter?

I keep hearing about the contractual agreement to pay these bonus' out. If the company is insolvent and cannot pay it's bills, there is normally no bonus' given out. Usually, you lose your job and get nada. Perhaps I am missing something here and a better versed Lizard can explain this situation more clearly? When AIG took that money, they sold their souls to Congress and Obama. To think they can continue on like nothing has changed seems odd. Expensive meetings, lavish bonus', etc...that crap should temporarily end until they get their poop in a group, right?

The 0bama administration has just hired the Piranha Brothers, Doug and Dinsdale, in the new organization, SPecial Executive branch for Communism, Revenge, Taxation, and Extortion.

re: #32 jaunte

Government employees using the power of the state to extort private citizens.
...
"I'm shocked, shocked that there is gambling in Casablanca."

But wait. I thought it was Bush who was trampling on and destroying the Constitution?
/

Remember kids, work hard and play by the rules and you can have it all taken from you by communist shits who can rouse the rabble

re: #15 unrealizedviewpoint

Most folks don't know who John Galt is. There be the problem.

I'd be happy if they just knew who Francisco d'Anconia is.

"Then you will see the rise of the men of the double standard--the men who live by force, yet count on those who live by trade to create the value of their looted money--the men who are the hitchhikers of virtue. In a moral society, these are the criminals, and the statutes are written to protect you against them. But when a society establishes criminals-by-right and looters-by-law--men who use force to seize the wealth of disarmed victims--then money becomes its creators' avenger. Such looters believe it safe to rob defenseless men, once they've passed a law to disarm them. But their loot becomes the magnet for other looters, who get it from them as they got it. Then the race goes, not to the ablest at production, but to those most ruthless at brutality. When force is the standard, the murderer wins over the pickpocket. And then that society vanishes, in a spread of ruins and slaughter.

"Do you wish to know whether that day is coming? Watch money. Money is the barometer of a society's virtue. When you see that trading is done, not by consent, but by compulsion--when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing--when you see that money is flowing to those who deal, not in goods, but in favors--when you see that men get richer by graft and by pull than by work, and your laws don't protect you against them, but protect them against you--when you see corruption being rewarded and honesty becoming a self-sacrifice--you may know that your society is doomed. Money is so noble a medium that is does not compete with guns and it does not make terms with brutality. It will not permit a country to survive as half-property, half-loot.

"Whenever destroyers appear among men, they start by destroying money, for money is men's protection and the base of a moral existence. Destroyers seize gold and leave to its owners a counterfeit pile of paper. This kills all objective standards and delivers men into the arbitrary power of an arbitrary setter of values. Gold was an objective value, an equivalent of wealth produced. Paper is a mortgage on wealth that does not exist, backed by a gun aimed at those who are expected to produce it. Paper is a check drawn by legal looters upon an account which is not theirs: upon the virtue of the victims. Watch for the day when it bounces, marked, 'Account overdrawn.'

Anybody that wants to know a little about how Andy Cuomo rolls needs to read the link in #24 and interpret the coded phrases.

re: #28 OldLineTexan

New? Tried not paying taxes, or arguing with the IRS?

Nod. There's just something extra evil about the way this is going down though...

It's interesting how certain types always have a private corporation to demonzie and obssessively attack:

AIG
Halliburton
Wal-Mart
McDonalds
Exxon
A&P Grocery (Roosevelt through a fit over this one)

Welcome to the peoples Republic Comrades.
I wish that they would have tried to get an injunction against Cuomos thuggish threat.

Welcome to Fascism.

When asked by the reporters if there was any implied threat in Cuomo's request the employees return the money he said, "I do not threaten, nor do I use strong language."

By which definition was this not a threat?

it is disgusting how these bums will turn on anyone and throw them to the wolves
if they can look good and save their own skin.
this after authorizing the bonuses and then needing someone to blame.
we have some real cowards in gov't.
no honor. no integrity.

This is illegal and should be stopped immediately. The idea that any government representative would threaten someone's safety if they don't return money to their employer is Stasi based at best. A couple of AG's should be charged and arrested.

If they can do to these people, they can do it to us. The heck with tea bags - call the FBI.

re: #46 gmsc

I love this phrase:

the hitchhikers of virtue

That there just sums everything up in four words.

re: #39 vxbush

Yes, but it won't just be the Dems and Obama who receive it. We all will.

true. so the sooner they leave office, the better off we'll be. We need to get our act together and take back congress starting in 2010...

re: #32 jaunte

Government employees using the power of the state to extort private citizens.
...
"I'm shocked, shocked that there is gambling in Casablanca."

* * * *
Authoritarian extortionists fool "useful idiots" by calling extortion "revolutionary taxes". Or as Obama says, "investments" from your wallet.

Hey! Lefties/Liberals/Demos!

You called Bush Fascist over and over!

Now that your chosen one is on a mad power grab, whose the Fascist now?

/LLL, that's a trick question for you. I know you don't have the electrical power in your brain cells to power anything.

Repost from the open thread:

Dear A.I.G., I Quit! New York Times Op Ed.

...The profitability of the businesses with which I was associated clearly supported my compensation. I never received any pay resulting from the credit default swaps that are now losing so much money. I did, however, like many others here, lose a significant portion of my life savings in the form of deferred compensation invested in the capital of A.I.G.-F.P. because of those losses. In this way I have personally suffered from this controversial activity — directly as well as indirectly with the rest of the taxpayers.

...I think your initial decision to honor the contracts was both ethical and financially astute, but it seems to have been politically unwise. It’s now apparent that you either misunderstood the agreements that you had made — tacit or otherwise — with the Federal Reserve, the Treasury, various members of Congress and Attorney General Andrew Cuomo of New York, or were not strong enough to withstand the shifting political winds.
You’ve now asked the current employees of A.I.G.-F.P. to repay these earnings. As you can imagine, there has been a tremendous amount of serious thought and heated discussion about how we should respond to this breach of trust.

As most of us have done nothing wrong, guilt is not a motivation to surrender our earnings. We have worked 12 long months under these contracts and now deserve to be paid as promised. None of us should be cheated of our payments any more than a plumber should be cheated after he has fixed the pipes but a careless electrician causes a fire that burns down the house.

Read the whole thing...

re: #42 Desert Dog

I am not happy about the government coming in and taking those back or threatening to "tax them back". On the other hand, AIG would be out of business if the Feds did not give them all that money and there would be no pay, let alone bonus' for these guys. I am not sure of all the facts on the ground, but why do they get a bonus when the company they work for has basically hit an iceberg and would be out of business right now if the government did not come in and bail them out? I realize that only one division of AIG was to blame for most of it's fiscal problems, but does that matter?

I keep hearing about the contractual agreement to pay these bonus' out. If the company is insolvent and cannot pay it's bills, there is normally no bonus' given out. Usually, you lose your job and get nada. Perhaps I am missing something here and a better versed Lizard can explain this situation more clearly? When AIG took that money, they sold their souls to Congress and Obama. To think they can continue on like nothing has changed seems odd. Expensive meetings, lavish bonus', etc...that crap should temporarily end until they get their poop in a group, right?

And that same Congress told them it was ok (via an amendment to the bailout money) to give those bonuses.

Would Cuomo had any liability if he had released those names and harm had come to those people?

re: #54 Barb42

LOL! I love optimists. God bless you.

I'm afraid they were unfortunately well advised to give in to that thuggish blackmail.

Look what happened last night to a former banker who ran one of the bigest banks into the sand, 'Fred the shred' - and who has an enormous pension:

Anti-capitalist group boasts of attack on Sir Fred Goodwin's home

Thats how vandals operate - and here is a pertinent comment, because here in the UK as well there are lots of NuLab, neostalinist politicians who were 'outraged' by Fred-the-Shred's pension - although a minister, empolyed by Labour, had signed off in them:

'So, John Prescott, Gordon Brown, Harriet Harman, Lord Myners and others. Now Sir Fred Goodwin’s house and car have been vandalised in the middle of the night, I hope you are proud of yourselves.
Well done, everyone. Well done on whipping up public hatred against a man who is, let’s not forget, now a private citizen. Well done on ensuring that his children have been picked on at school and that his wife, according to people who know the family, been left “distraught”. On ensuring that the man’s life has been made so miserable he may have to go and live overseas. ... ... ...'
(Comment: a confederacy of hypocrites)

re: #55 vxbush

That there just sums everything up in four words.

Yep – and this part...

--when you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing--

...sums up the Cuomo extortion quite well, too.

In a Monday night news conference with reporters the attorney general said that releasing the names would be in the interest of explaining to taxpayers how their money was used—and that if the money were returned, it would severely diminish if not extinguish the need to release the names.

The threat is not over.

re: #31 gregg Oops... GMTA

re: #59 buzzsawmonkey

Ex post facto and bills of attainder only apply to criminal law, not tax law or immigration law. This is nothing new but it's an open secret in "right wing" circles. It's easy to check.

The city of New York is largely supported by about 40 thousand taxpayers.
If I were them, I would move out.

re: #62 MandyManners

Would Cuomo had any liability if he had released those names and harm had come to those people?

As far as I'm concerned, Outraged Bus Trips need to go to his house and all those in Congress who caused this in the first place...

re: #54 Barb42

This is illegal and should be stopped immediately. The idea that any government representative would threaten someone's safety if they don't return money to their employer is Stasi based at best. A couple of AG's should be charged and arrested.

If they can do to these people, they can do it to us. The heck with tea bags - call the FBI.

* * * *
hahahaha.

Obama has told Immigration to stop enforcing immigration laws, what makes you think that under Obama, the FBI will do what it was designed to do?

If I worked for AIG and wasn't responsible for the mess they got into, they would have to pry that bonus from my cold, dead fingers. (which, of course, they would love to do)

re: #68 Killgore Trout

Ex post facto and bills of attainder only apply to criminal law, not tax law or immigration law. This is nothing new but it's an open secret in "right wing" circles. It's easy to check.

This is a recording...

However, Professor John Coffee, of Columbia University believes the attorney general is well within his rights because a court has already ruled that the employees of Bank of America and Merrill did not have a right to confidentiality. As for physical threats he called "speculative," and added "We haven't seen any credible threats that have required police protection. I'll admit, its a high price to pay for privacy."

Is there a right to privacy or isn't there? What eliminates that right?

nice to see an AG not following the law and using threats and coercion to get what he wants. We are seeing the end of democracy as we know it. Hello big government! ( Don't mean to sound like a conspiracy person but all this stuff makes me worry and uncomfortable )

re: #66 MandyManners

The threat is not over.

It is only beginning.

i would have told cuomo 'if you want my bonus, come and get it.'

re: #70 LGoPs

As far as I'm concerned, Outraged Bus Trips need to go to his house and all those in Congress who caused this in the first place...

That's different because they're public figures. Employees of AIG are not.

re: #38 Killgore Trout

I'm thinking now that most of the largest bonuses have been returned they may back off on passing that law. Internal politics withing AIG is going to be very tense between those who returned their bonuses and those who tried to hold on to them. The ones who tried to hold on may find themselves pushed out soon.

They are already pushed out. These are retention bonuses made under a contract that they only had X amount of months left at work winding down operations. Betrayal, disillusion, and anger are what the AIG folks and, indeed, ALL Americans should be feeling.

re: #65 gmsc

...sums up the Cuomo extortion quite well, too.

Yes, and of those who seem to take the tack of going into politics. That, in and of itself, does not produce anything for society. It has been a necessary evil that has become far too capable of evil in and of itself.

Guess Cuomo decided publishing names would be easier than trying to place a horse head in each exec's bed.

re: #71 alegrias

* * * *
hahahaha.

Obama has told Immigration to stop enforcing immigration laws, what makes you think that under Obama, the FBI will do what it was designed to do?

Fuck that. If I was ICE, or CBP, I would continue to do my job, regardless of what the Thief-in-Chief says. The law is still the law.

re: #36 Milk in a Box

href="[Link: radioviceonline.com...] target="_blank">And now they're quitting.

He agreed to a $1 per year salary while dismantling AIG. He was pretty much doing a service, and he's donating all of his bonus to charity. But now he's quitting because the government is treating him like trash.

Once again, who is John Galt?

I do not know if anyone has answered who John Galt is for you. But in partial answer to your question, John Galt is the main protagonist in Ayn Rand's novel, Atlas Shrugged. Basically, the book outlines what happens when the "movers and shakers" stop moving and shaking. The result is not pretty.

re: #56 jimc

true. so the sooner they leave office, the better off we'll be. We need to get our act together and take back congress starting in 2010...

* * * *
Remember Nancy Pelosi is the top extortionist who wrote Obama's stimulus bill.

Her background in hardball politics, with her father as mayor of Baltimore Maryland and it's sizeable longshoremen and mafia population, is EXTORTION personified.

Don't be fooled by Pelosi's Armani designer wear, she knows how to play thug.

re: #68 Killgore Trout

Ex post facto and bills of attainder only apply to criminal law, not tax law or immigration law. This is nothing new but it's an open secret in "right wing" circles. It's easy to check.

You should read the constitution, because that is not what it says. (no matter how courts have "interpreted" it.) It says "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto law shall be passed." Seems pretty clear to me.

re: #76 Leonidas Hoplite

It is only beginning.

I was speaking of these folks in specific but, this seizing of bonuses from employees in companies that did not take this money is on the horizon.

re: #68 Killgore Trout

Ex post facto and bills of attainder only apply to criminal law, not tax law or immigration law. This is nothing new but it's an open secret in "right wing" circles. It's easy to check.

Dude - "Life, Liberty and Property"

Congress can't bypass the Constitution regarding Bills of Attainder by saying "but it isn't for a crime". If Congress targets a particular person or group of people for a punishment in response to an action that person or group took but Congress had failed to outlaw, and it is clear that Congress intends to outlaw that activity going forward, you have a Bill of Attainder.

Imagine the repercussions Bush would have seen if the AG of CA had threatened to release the names of the Code Pinkos in Berkley who were protesting the recruiting offices there.

Obama should call this AG and tell him under no circumstances is he allowed to release the names of these executives. He should also chastise this AG for even threatening anything that looks or smells like extortion.

re: #10 karmic_inquisitor

Thanks Charles.

Amazing how a guy charged with enforcing laws in the state of New York is so willing to adopt the practices of mobsters and thugs to win political points.

Considering his pedigree...

re: #62 MandyManners

Would Cuomo had any liability if he had released those names and harm had come to those people?

* * * *
No.
the new rules are, a few eggs have to be broken to make an Obama omelet.

I've said all I have to say about AG Andrew Cuomo and his thuggish ways on the DT, but I did want to thank CHARLES for putting this thread up and to ask y'all to PLEASE "Share This".

Caller to Rush said she just received her tax tables for her small business AND taxes have gone UP. She said she used to be able to make $160/week without any tax, and NOW, the new tax tables start at ZERO.

The government taxes the first penny.

"If you mention extortion again, I'll have your legs broken."
- Mayor Carmine DiFazio, Animal House

re: #76 Leonidas Hoplite

It is only beginning.

now you know why I hate the feds with a passion...my dire enemy, a giant out of control beast that will intrude into your life and wreak havoc...

re: #35 Cathypop

Do they get a unicorn in exchange for returning their bonus?

Yes, but it's just the head with the horn missing in their beds while they sleep.

This is the sort of thing that will rebuild our economy:

Stocks are higher following a report that orders for big-ticket manufactured goods showed an unexpected increase in February and a better than expected report on new-home sales. -www.finance.yahoo

Not that fucking monopoly money that Obama wants to print.

re: #74 MandyManners

Is there a right to privacy or isn't there? What eliminates that right?

Your agenda. If you are a leftist whack job, you have the right to do anything you want, whenever you want, irrespective of the rights of others.

To said leftist whack jobs, if you do not support that agenda you have no rights.

Where's the ACLU on this?

Meanwhile Chris Dodd, Barney Frank, Maxine Waters and ACORN are continuing business as usual x 2 Trillion. grumble.

re: #79 Russkilitlover

They are already pushed out. These are retention bonuses made under a contract that they only had X amount of months left at work winding down operations. Betrayal, disillusion, and anger are what the AIG folks and, indeed, ALL Americans should be feeling.

The good thing is that any other business may do whatever necessary to avoid dealing with the ODevil.

re: #98 Kenjen

Where's the ACLU on this?

Busy praising Cuomo.

Obama Poll Crash

Gerard Pasciucco was the guy in the Che shirt from these stories:

[Link: www.talkingpointsmemo.com...]
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

re: #26 Zimriel

Yeah, where does he think he is... New Jersey?

No, Chicago. Here, the politicians are the mobsters.

re: #88 Oxnuts

Imagine the repercussions Bush would have seen if the AG of CA had threatened to release the names of the Code Pinkos in Berkley who were protesting the recruiting offices there.

Obama should call this AG and tell him under no circumstances is he allowed to release the names of these executives. He should also chastise this AG for even threatening anything that looks or smells like extortion.

I agree with you but why the hell would Obama do that? This is his bread and butter. Community Organizing (aka Agitating) is based on stirring people up.
I have no doubt he loves this shit. Especially if his personal hands are clean. Which they're not, by the way.

re: #85 slterry40

You should read the constitution, because that is not what it says. (no matter how courts have "interpreted" it.) It says "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto law shall be passed." Seems pretty clear to me.

"Bills of attainder, ex post facto laws, and laws impairing the obligations of contracts, are contrary to the first principles of the social compact, and to every principle of sound legislation. ... The sober people of America are weary of the fluctuating policy which has directed the public councils. They have seen with regret and indignation that sudden changes and legislative interferences, in cases affecting personal rights, become jobs in the hands of enterprising and influential speculators, and snares to the more-industrious and less-informed part of the community." James Madison, Federalist Number 44, 1788.

re: #88 Oxnuts
You're right about Bush, but you're dreaming if you think Obama would ever do that to Cuomo. Obama HAS to let others do most of the attacking for him or else he'll lose his unicorn image.

re: #92 DistantThunder

Caller to Rush said she just received her tax tables for her small business AND taxes have gone UP. She said she used to be able to make $160/week without any tax, and NOW, the new tax tables start at ZERO.

The government taxes the first penny.

She said she used to tax her two employees when their earnings hit $160.00 a week. Now she begins withholding at 0.00. 7.6% on the very first dollar.

It reminds me of the practice of showing 'johns' photographs in the newspaper. The attorney generals should focus on enforcing existing laws, in this case determining if there was fraud committed by anyone at AIG and building a case against the allegedly guilty individuals.

Didn't millions of dollars dissappear from HUD under his watchful eye?

Un-FRAKKIN-believable. All the b.s. I had to listen to from coworkers who only vote for people (and I use the term loosely) with (D) after their names about how George Bush was taking away civil rights and shredding the Constitution...and the Zero and his demon-rat cronies swoop in and start pulling this gestapo-mafia extortion crap...and not a word about it from my coworkers. Shmucks.

This continuing abuse of power and REAL shredding of the Constitution just makes me want to get more mags for my WASR-10 and more ammo...and that's coming from a God-fearing Christian...

Lord help us all...

re: #88 Oxnuts

Imagine the repercussions Bush would have seen if the AG of CA had threatened to release the names of the Code Pinkos in Berkley who were protesting the recruiting offices there.

Obama should call this AG and tell him under no circumstances is he allowed to release the names of these executives. He should also chastise this AG for even threatening anything that looks or smells like extortion.

I guarantee you that FCBBHO knew what Cuomo was gonna' threaten.

re: #106 MandyManners

"Bills of attainder, ex post facto laws, and laws impairing the obligations of contracts, are contrary to the first principles of the social compact, and to every principle of sound legislation. ... The sober people of America are weary of the fluctuating policy which has directed the public councils. They have seen with regret and indignation that sudden changes and legislative interferences, in cases affecting personal rights, become jobs in the hands of enterprising and influential speculators, and snares to the more-industrious and less-informed part of the community." James Madison, Federalist Number 44, 1788.

Phht. Madison was just another Dead White Guy.
///

re: #77 nyc redneck

i would have told cuomo 'if you want my bonus, come and get it.'

My feelings exactly...

re: #74 MandyManners

Is there a right to privacy or isn't there? What eliminates that right?

* * * *
Republicans lost.

Chicago politicians won. What Obama fundraisers & supporters did to Joe the Plumber's privacy & tax data on government time, was a preview and a foretaste of the takeover to come on Inauguration day.

re: #81 Killer Tomato

Guess Cuomo decided publishing names would be easier than trying to place a horse head in each exec's bed.

Upon reading I broke out in applause - major funny!

re: #90 alegrias

* * * *
No.
the new rules are, a few eggs have to be broken to make an Obama omelet.

Could he claim governmental immunity? This is outside the scope of his duties.

re: #98 Kenjen

Where's the ACLU on this?

They are on the same team.

re: #88 Oxnuts

Imagine the repercussions Bush would have seen if the AG of CA had threatened to release the names of the Code Pinkos in Berkley who were protesting the recruiting offices there.

Obama should call this AG and tell him under no circumstances is he allowed to release the names of these executives. He should also chastise this AG for even threatening anything that looks or smells like extortion.

The Zero wias probably the one who told them to do it. Remember, do not let any crisis go with using it to your advantage. This is exactly th ekind of thing Zero was taught in his church and school

re: #52 MandyManners

By which definition was this not a threat?

Because it was a promise, not just a threat.

re: #81 Killer Tomato

Guess Cuomo decided publishing names would be easier than trying to place a horse head in each exec's bed.

Yep - and Cuomo didn't want PETA after him, for those dead horses ...

re: #97 Leonidas Hoplite

Your agenda. If you are a leftist whack job, you have the right to do anything you want, whenever you want, irrespective of the rights of others.

To said leftist whack jobs, if you do not support that agenda you have no rights.

Just a variation on my long held belief that to leftists "the rules are whatever the fuck we decide that they are, whenever we feel like it"...
Bastards.

re: #100 DistantThunder

The good thing is that any other business may do whatever necessary to avoid dealing with the ODevil.

FedEx is fighting "card check"...

re: #115 alegrias

* * * *
Republicans lost.

Maybe instead of a Republican running, a conservative should have.

re: #106 MandyManners

"Bills of attainder, ex post facto laws, and laws impairing the obligations of contracts, are contrary to the first principles of the social compact, and to every principle of sound legislation. ... The sober people of America are weary of the fluctuating policy which has directed the public councils. They have seen with regret and indignation that sudden changes and legislative interferences, in cases affecting personal rights, become jobs in the hands of enterprising and influential speculators, and snares to the more-industrious and less-informed part of the community." James Madison, Federalist Number 44, 1788.

Mandy, I see what you and others are saying regarding the Bills of attainder, but the fact is that the courts have shown an ability to ignore the clear writ of law and to go their own way. Kelo is just an example. While I wish Kilgore was wrong, I fear he may be right and that the law will not protect these contracts.

Should it be clear and obvious? Yes. But will the courts follow it? That is a big unknown, especially if you get a judge who has a desire for "social justice."

Anybody get a chance to read Jake DeSantis' resignation letter.

What is this country coming to? Waiting on the Democrat's guillotine, I guess.

re: #121 yma o hyd

Yep - and Cuomo didn't want PETA after him, for those dead horses ...

I think they're called "Running Kittens" now.

re: #109 studioTech

It reminds me of the practice of showing 'johns' photographs in the newspaper. The attorney generals should focus on enforcing existing laws, in this case determining if there was fraud committed by anyone at AIG and building a case against the allegedly guilty individuals.

No. People who participate in prostitution are breaking the law.

re: #81 Killer Tomato

Guess Cuomo decided publishing names would be easier than trying to place a horse head in each exec's bed.

* * * *
PETA would have a cow if he tried the dead horse head tactic.

re: #61 simonml

And that same Congress told them it was ok (via an amendment to the bailout money) to give those bonuses.

That part I understand. Congress specifically said it ok. And now, they are coming back after the "uproar" (they got caught, more or less). I think that is wrong and they should live (or die) by what they agreed to. Especially since these bonus' were specifically mentioned in the Stimulus bill.

My question is why does AIG think they should give these out in the first place? They are insolvent. If my company could not pay the bills and had debts in the same proportion as AIG, I would be out of business and my employees would not get a bonus, they would get laid off. They would be lucky to get paid at all and forget about severance packages. I know AIG is a vital cog in the banking and mortgage industry, but it still seems unrealistic for these guys to be passing out bonus' when they are in the red by billions.

High finance is obviously not my forte. Perhaps of the Financial Lizards can make matters more clear?

re: #87 karmic_inquisitor

Congress can't bypass the Constitution regarding Bills of Attainder by saying "but it isn't for a crime".

Yes they can. The government's technical reason for barring Tariq Ramadan from entering the country is because he gave money to a terrorist organization a year before is was declared illegal. Where's your outrage about that one?

re: #52 MandyManners

By which definition was this not a threat?

When the Attorney General says or does it, that means it is not a crime.

re: #81 Killer Tomato

Guess Cuomo decided publishing names would be easier than trying to place a horse head in each exec's bed.

That's what ACORN's bus tour is for.

re: #128 MandyManners

No. People who participate in prostitution are breaking the law.

Only if they were convicted of the crime. If the johns were convicted, the show the photos...

As a former New Yorker who still has family there I am very happy to see that the state is so thoroughly devoid of crime that the State AG has time to pursue this sh*t.

///

re: #125 vxbush

Mandy, I see what you and others are saying regarding the Bills of attainder, but the fact is that the courts have shown an ability to ignore the clear writ of law and to go their own way. Kelo is just an example. While I wish Kilgore was wrong, I fear he may be right and that the law will not protect these contracts.

Should it be clear and obvious? Yes. But will the courts follow it? That is a big unknown, especially if you get a judge who has a desire for "social justice."

"These clauses of the Constitution are not of the broad, general nature of the Due Process Clause, but refer to rather precise legal terms which had a meaning under English law at the time the Constitution was adopted. A bill of attainder was a legislative act that singled out one or more persons and imposed punishment on them, without benefit of trial. Such actions were regarded as odious by the framers of the Constitution because it was the traditional role of a court, judging an individual case, to impose punishment." William H. Rehnquist, The Supreme Court, page 166.

We are under mob/thug rule. The problem is that the mobs approve of the thug in office. Anyone who questions these populists winds up with a pitchfork waving mob outside their door telling them to support dear leader. The DOW soars so everyone thinks times are changing which is untrue.

Folks, when credit card/unsecured debts begins to default, get ready for the pain.

re: #88 Oxnuts

Imagine the repercussions Bush would have seen if the AG of CA had threatened to release the names of the Code Pinkos in Berkley who were protesting the recruiting offices there.

Obama should call this AG and tell him under no circumstances is he allowed to release the names of these executives. He should also chastise this AG for even threatening anything that looks or smells like extortion.

* * * *
Hello, Obama is from Extortion City.

re: #114 Leonidas Hoplite

My feelings exactly...

[Video]

it is rather disheartening that these people capitulated so quickly.
maybe they had too much to lose or thought they did.
i would have loved to see them fight back especially to explain how rotten
the gov't thugs were to twist this scenario so egregiously and deceitfully.

Great. Who is next on the government muscle hit list?

Oil executives make too much profit during a price spike? Threaten them so they will donate the money to some green foundation.

Doctors make too much money? Threaten the doctors so they will cut charges to medicare.

Need to lower costs of government funded schools? Threaten the slackard principals and teachers so they will donate their free time.

Football players making too much dough for just playing a game? Threaten them so they will donate to charity.

Hey Y'all - one more time: PLEASE SHARE THIS STORY - little button right under Charles comment for this thread.

I'm so mad I can spit.

re: #133 Who Watches the Watchmen?

That's what ACORN's bus tour is for.

A.k.a., "The Magical Misery Tour."

re: #128 MandyManners

No. People who participate in prostitution are breaking the law.

Wait. Are the photos published before or after they are convicted in a court? If not then that is trial by court of public opinion and is the same tactic employed by Cuomo.

"Mario, du bist a momzer!"--Bob Grant

re: #51 DistantThunder

Welcome to Fascism.

If any lizards haven't yet read Jonah Goldberg's "Liberal Fascism," I urge you to do so.

Interestingly, the recent actions by Congress and the proposals from the administration are really nothing new. The GIVE act, the restrictions on compensation, the request for greater regulatory powers...when taken in total appear to be strategies to consolidate power, and put the current administration in a position to control - through patronage and outright extortion - the upcoming mid-term and 2012 general elections.

Burton Fulsom, Jr's terrific book "New Deal or Raw Deal" includes a chapter (chapter 12) titled Patronage Transformed - The Elections of 1934 and 1936. Just change the name from Roosevelt to Obama, and you get a sense of the strategy.

And if you think "extortion" is an exaggeration, here's a letter from a Pennsylvania county chairman to a woman with a position under the WPA in that state (from 1936):

Dear Madam,
I am very much surprised that you have not responded to our previous letter requesting your contribution in the amount of $28.08 to the Indiana County Democratic Campaign Committee, as I was sure you appreciated your position to such an extent that you would make this contribution willingly and promptly. I must, however, now advise you that unless your contribution in the above amount is received promptly, it will be necessary to place your name on the list of those who will not be given consideration for any other appointment after the termination of the emergency relief work, which as you know will terminate in the near future.

re: #92 DistantThunder

Caller to Rush said she just received her tax tables for her small business AND taxes have gone UP. She said she used to be able to make $160/week without any tax, and NOW, the new tax tables start at ZERO.

The government taxes the first penny.

* * **
Revolutionary (change) taxes all right.

re: #125 vxbush

Very sad but true comment.

re: #112 MandyManners

You are probably right. It makes me sick to think of it though.

re: #16 rawmuse

Neo-Bolshevism. That is what I call it.

Personally, I like "neocom." The left had so much fun with neocon, I think it's time to return the favor.

re: #125 vxbush

Mandy, I see what you and others are saying regarding the Bills of attainder, but the fact is that the courts have shown an ability to ignore the clear writ of law and to go their own way. Kelo is just an example. While I wish Kilgore was wrong, I fear he may be right and that the law will not protect these contracts.

Kudos to you. It should make any difference if you are anti-bonus or pro-bonus. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion but not their own facts. I happen to be anti-bonus but my real pet peeve is all the dishonest pundits that are ignoring easily verified facts regarding the constitutionality of this because it doesn't happen to fit their agenda. It's important to be honest no matter which side of the argument you are on.

re: #127 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

I think they're called "Running Kittens" now.

Aww!
That would have made it even worse for Cuomo - who'd be so mean and stick the heads of dead, running kittens in people's beds!

re: #87 karmic_inquisitor

Dude - "Life, Liberty and Property"

Congress can't bypass the Constitution regarding Bills of Attainder by saying "but it isn't for a crime". If Congress targets a particular person or group of people for a punishment in response to an action that person or group took but Congress had failed to outlaw, and it is clear that Congress intends to outlaw that activity going forward, you have a Bill of Attainder.

Admittedly this isn't a legally binding precedent, but that's exactly the shit James II tried to pull from exile in Dublin.

His "Act of Attainder" didn't declare those 2000-3000 Anglo Protestants to be criminals; it just said that their property legally belonged to Catholics. That Act was therefore a civil action. Now, if any of them tried to get it back, they could go to Dublin to argue their case; but if they lost that suit, then the Act would declare them traitors fit for hanging, drawing, and quartering.

re: #152 Killgore Trout

PIMF

It should not make any difference...

re: #17 Dave the...

Conn AG also is threatening AIG employees.

My employer is being harassed by the Conn. AG. I sit next to our legal department so am knowledgeable about what is going on.

It's amazing what a douchebag gov't officials are. Very dishonest. Their crimes aren't taking cash bribes, it's harassing private businesses. Demanding incredible amounts of internal documents to use on a fishing expedition.

I heard that on the news this AM on the way to work. When media whore Blumenthal gets his nose into something all rules are out the window.

re: #139 nyc redneck

it is rather disheartening that these people capitulated so quickly.
maybe they had too much to lose or thought they did.
i would have loved to see them fight back especially to explain how rotten
the gov't thugs were to twist this scenario so egregiously and deceitfully.

Agreed but they no doubt feared for the safety of their families, and rightfully so. An acquaintance of mine used to work in PR for a drug firm, and he got a threatening letter in his mailbox from ALF. The extreme left will resort to extreme measures in pursuit of their agenda. Just ask the family of the Judge that Ayers and his pals tried to assassinate.

re: #140 Rednek

Great. Who is next on the government muscle hit list?

Oil executives make too much profit during a price spike? Threaten them so they will donate the money to some green foundation.

Doctors make too much money? Threaten the doctors so they will cut charges to medicare.

Need to lower costs of government funded schools? Threaten the slackard principals and teachers so they will donate their free time.

Football players making too much dough for just playing a game? Threaten them so they will donate to charity.

You can bet your ass it won't be movie stars.

re: #110 tappin52

Didn't millions of dollars dissappear from HUD under his watchful eye?

* * *
that's chump change! We're losing quadrillions now.

re: #92 DistantThunder

Hmmm. That's not what I see: [Link: www.irs.gov...]

I didn't compare every bit, but there's still a withholding floor.

re: #147 subsailor68

Great book that - it gives chapter and verse on what to expect, in practical terms, from the PB0 administration.

If you haven't read it yet - do so.
Its not that big ... and it pays to be prepared.

For once, I agree with Cuomo.

re: #130 Desert Dog

That part I understand. Congress specifically said it ok. And now, they are coming back after the "uproar" (they got caught, more or less). I think that is wrong and they should live (or die) by what they agreed to. Especially since these bonus' were specifically mentioned in the Stimulus bill.

My question is why does AIG think they should give these out in the first place? They are insolvent. If my company could not pay the bills and had debts in the same proportion as AIG, I would be out of business and my employees would not get a bonus, they would get laid off. They would be lucky to get paid at all and forget about severance packages. I know AIG is a vital cog in the banking and mortgage industry, but it still seems unrealistic for these guys to be passing out bonus' when they are in the red by billions.

High finance is obviously not my forte. Perhaps of the Financial Lizards can make matters more clear?

Some of that bonus money was owed to employees of profitable divisions that had nothing to do with the bad investments and economic meltdown. Dear A.I.G., I Quit! New York Times Op Ed.

"...As most of us have done nothing wrong, guilt is not a motivation to surrender our earnings. We have worked 12 long months under these contracts and now deserve to be paid as promised. None of us should be cheated of our payments any more than a plumber should be cheated after he has fixed the pipes but a careless electrician causes a fire that burns down the house."

re: #137 Jetpilot1101

We are under mob/thug rule. The problem is that the mobs approve of the thug in office. Anyone who questions these populists winds up with a pitchfork waving mob outside their door telling them to support dear leader.

Do not forget that we got here due to the greed and idiocy of the brahmins on Wall Street.

re: #164 DaddyG

"...As most of us have done nothing wrong, guilt is not a motivation to surrender our earnings. We have worked 12 long months under these contracts and now deserve to be paid as promised. None of us should be cheated of our payments any more than a plumber should be cheated after he has fixed the pipes but a careless electrician causes a fire that burns down the house."

Wrong.

Sue the electrician.

In this case it's even more direct - sue your management.

re: #165 itellu3times

Do not forget that we got here due to the greed and idiocy of the brahmins on Wall Street.

Actually, the housing bubble was caused by the goverment in the form of the Community Reinvestment Act. Just becasue Wall Street got in on the goverments' racket in no way makes them solely responsible.

re: #131 Killgore Trout

Yes they can. The government's technical reason for barring Tariq Ramadan from entering the country is because he gave money to a terrorist organization a year before is was declared illegal. Where's your outrage about that one?

Bills of Attainder apply specifically to -

1) Congress (2) issuing a punitive measure (3) against a specific person or group.

The Tariq Ramadan case was not the result of Congress singling him out. Furthermore, the Executive routinely asserts broad authority and discretion on actions related to national security during a national emergency/war.

No one (that I know of) likened that case to a Bill of Attainder.

re: #87 karmic_inquisitor

Dude - "Life, Liberty and Property"

Appropos of the demcrat ethos, I'd like to state that I think, and the founders clearly agreed, that property is a much bigger aspect of liberty than is privacy. Privacy is not irrelevant, but its funny how easy the more important economic liberty is taken by so-called liberals.

Anyway, I missed Dear Leader's speech last night. I had a more pressing engagement rolling balls around the floor with my one year old.

re: #168 karmic_inquisitor

No, it was ex post facto. But that only applies to criminal law, not immigration law or tax law.

re: #167 Leonidas Hoplite

Actually, the housing bubble was caused by the goverment in the form of the Community Reinvestment Act. Just becasue Wall Street got in on the goverments' racket in no way makes them solely responsible.

The "bubble" was the increase in prices to unsustainable levels.

That happened outside of the CRA and such.

Bubbles, happen.

Our financial leaders are supposed to know about such things. They failed utterly, while taking home seven, eight, nine, and ten digit compensation packages for many years.

Yes, the CRA made it worse. That's our government at work, but hey, that's what we (conservatives!) expect, from the government!

re: #165 itellu3times

Do not forget that we got here due to the greed and idiocy of the brahmins on Wall Street.

Of course congress and ACORN pushing them to provide bad loans to people who couldn't repay and threatening to paint them as racist if they didn't had nothing to do with this./

Of course greed has something to do with it but you are letting an awful lot of the architects of this disaster off way to easy. The Bush administration tried to warn them. That's the difference between documented history and democratic hysteria.

Thanks for the story. Isn't the AG pledged to protect people? Aren't these executives people? I was against the bonuses but realized a legal contract is a legal contract.Why is it ok to knowingly put these people in harms way?Why are the people being used as a tool of intimidation? I don't understand it.

re: #171 itellu3times

The "bubble" was the increase in prices to unsustainable levels.

That happened outside of the CRA and such.

Bubbles, happen.

Our financial leaders are supposed to know about such things. They failed utterly, while taking home seven, eight, nine, and ten digit compensation packages for many years.

Yes, the CRA made it worse. That's our government at work, but hey, that's what we (conservatives!) expect, from the government!

The CRA forced banks to make mortgage loans to those who could not repay them.

This is a mixed bag of cause and effect.

In my world, a bonus is given only when my company has had financial success in the previous year. It's basically performance based. I think most Americans would approve of $170,000,000 in bonuses to people who helped make a company strong.

When AIG went with their hat their hands to US---YOU AND ME---for help, we expected that help would be used to help the company survive. Fine. We get that part.

What we do not like is bonuses awarded at our expense for flying a company into a brick wall. And some of those guys a

Flip side is that these contracts were apparently in place. Someone in the Messiah administration should have flagged this and taken $170,000, 000 right off the top of the bailout money. (I'm opposed to any bailout at all---it encourages future bad behavior).

Now, it looks lilke BO is going start determining what is 'too much' salary, and what company is worthy over another.

Sorry to say, but Socialism is the ugly result of irresponsible crooks on Wall st. not being policed by their own. I'm a big time free-market guy, but you can easily see the path to this outrage and resultant confiscatory legislation.

re: #173 Rolltideroll

You are aboslutely correct. The AG is supposed to uphold the law. Not if its popular or he feels its not right. thats the difference between liberals and conservatives. We follow the law. They follow their feelings becaue "they know its the right thing to do"

re: #171 itellu3times

The "bubble" was the increase in prices to unsustainable levels.

That happened outside of the CRA and such.

Bubbles, happen.

Our financial leaders are supposed to know about such things. They failed utterly, while taking home seven, eight, nine, and ten digit compensation packages for many years.

Yes, the CRA made it worse. That's our government at work, but hey, that's what we (conservatives!) expect, from the government!

How exactly did the bubble happen outside of CRA? CRA forces banks, under threat of lawsuit (see a pattern here?), to make loans to people who can't pay them back. Thus artificial demand is created. The goverment then turns to Fan and Fred and enables them to buy these loans from the banks. More artifical demand. The banks, now with much more limited moral hazard, make more bad loans. More artificial demand. All this serves to drive housing prices higher. Higher prices casues more supply. There's your bubble. And this happened outside of CRA exactly how?

re: #164 DaddyG
Hmmm... Why doesn't the same standard hold for the GM workers and the UAW contracts.
The AIG fools and their gambling helped to destroy my IRA, and for that they want me to help fund their million dollar bonuses.
There were many people at GM who worked hard and had nothing to do with the losses, yet their contracts had to be thrown out the window and new contracts drawn up. How is a GM worker any different than the AIG worker except that his organization didnt play a role in helping to destroy my IRA?
The whole argument that tax payers should be forced to pay AIG bonuses would be like charging me for the bullet that you intend to shoot me with and then forcing my family to pay burial expenses.
A pox on them and all their house.

re: #31 gregg

Are we supposed to be impressed?

I worked with another type of AIG: Countrywide- where this whole financial collapse started two years ago. I saw RAMPANT, out-of-control greed and beyond belief spending. As a true capitalist, I get the free-market. But we are confusing greed and outright fraud with capitalism.

The two should---should--- be mutually exclusive. more and more, they are not.

re: #177 Leonidas Hoplite

How exactly did the bubble happen outside of CRA?

Real estate in California in million dollar neighborhoods went up to ridiculous prices - as it has in several previous cycles. No CRA involved. No Fannie or Freddie - all jumbos.

CRA just spread the participation to the middle class.

Maybe someday we'll have full numbers, but at least early in this crisis, the word was the speculators, not CRA home buyers, were the ones defaulting the fastest.

re: #7 Gella

can't u go to jail for extortion?

Not if you're in Congress.

re: #170 Killgore Trout

No, it was ex post facto. But that only applies to criminal law, not immigration law or tax law.

Look - I am not arguing that Congress can't impose taxes on monies previously earned or otherwise accumulated.

It comes down to motive - it would not be difficult to prove (and would, IMO, be very difficult to disprove) that the intent of Congress was punitive.

Given that, consider what Warren wrote in US. v. Brown -

“the legislative branch is not so well suited as politically independent judges and juries to the task of ruling upon the blameworthiness of, and levying appropriate punishment upon specific persons. “

Specifically, the Bill of Attainder provision is a separation instrument. Congress only gets authority to hold one kind of trial - impeachments. Other than that, they must defer to the judicial branch, and the due process clause only reinforces that.

Arguing tangential instances of expo facto is not really enough to overcome the simple fact that this is a punitive measure taken by congress against a specific group of people, and it denies those people due process of a trial before their property is appropriated as punishment for an act.

re: #173 Rolltideroll

Thanks for the story. Isn't the AG pledged to protect people? Aren't these executives people? I was against the bonuses but realized a legal contract is a legal contract.Why is it ok to knowingly put these people in harms way?Why are the people being used as a tool of intimidation? I don't understand it.

No. they are pledged to ensure justice. But publishing names in a Soviet -era style putsch is now apparently a shortcut to their interpretation of justice

re: #45 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

Remember kids, work hard and play by the rules and you can have it all taken from you by communist shits who can rouse the rabble

They didn't exactly play by the rules, though.

I don't care for Cuomo or his tactics, but I'm not sure anyone is going to feel a great deal of sympathy for AIG or its executives. It's like this:

AIG: Please sir, can you spare some change? I'm starving to death.

Us: Your health is important to me, brother. Here's enough for rent, utilities, and food for a month.

AIG: Sweet! I'm off to hit the slots, after I pick up some women and wine!

Us: I'm gonna smash your face.

Now the key to this scenario, I'd say -- in big economics just like the little economics we all practice on the street -- the key is to never give the down-and-out guy cash. Ever. Buy the food yourself, so you know the money's well spent.

So a bus load of facist Acorn brownshirts invade a neighborhood to protest at a private citizen's home and nobody cares. A government goon threatens to release the names of private citizens so thugs can threaten his children. You know this all happened before and no one cared then either. Funny how people still hide behind their shades when their neighbor WHO DID NOTHING WRONG is under assault by goons and thugs. Who said it cant happen here?

Treason doth never prosper: what's the reason? Why if it prosper, none dare call it treason. - Ovid

None Dare Call It Treason -- In 1970, Jerry Rubin was promoting his new book, Do It, on Donahue. He openly advocated a communist takeover of the USA. Just a little irony there, huh?

You can bet I'll be watching very closely for any hint of praise for feudal societies from this administration, OR from its supporters.

re: #184 Cognito

"Now the key to this scenario, I'd say -- in big economics just like the little economics we all practice on the street -- the key is to never give the down-and-out guy cash. Ever. Buy the food yourself, so you know the money's well spent".

I disagree with that sentiment. I feel it is my responsibility to help my brother, if I am able. What he does with it is on him.

If I were homeless and cold, I might some whiskey, too.

re: #113 BeerDrinking_VictoryMonkey

Phht. Madison was just another Dead White Guy.
///

Uh...I think he still is... :)

re: #190 SummerSong

I disagree with that sentiment. I feel it is my responsibility to help my brother, if I am able. What he does with it is on him.

If I were homeless and cold, I might some whiskey, too.

In which case -- just like with AIG -- you're not actually helping him. You're drawing the snare tighter around him.

And further, the analogy is limited by the statement, "your health is important to me." The only reason our government (of the people, for the people) came to AIG's rescue wasn't because they're a real decent bunch of guys. It's because they're dragging us down.

"However, Professor John Coffee, of Columbia University believes the attorney general is well within his rights because a court has already ruled that the employees of Bank of America and Merrill did not have a right to confidentiality."

The "angry populist mobs" apparently have a legal right to know the identities of the bonus bailout recipients.
Besides, what evidence is there of any physical threat or danger - or are we just talking about public embarrassment?
BTW when will these felons be indicted?

NYAG=Asshole

Wonder how much of the give back $$$ was allocated to ACORN.

Kitty Genovese could not be reached for comment.

re: #184 Cognito

They didn't exactly play by the rules, though.

As un popular and hated as credit Default Swaps are, there really weren't any rules for these or many other derivatives.

We are going through the very derivatives crisis that Warren Buffet has warned about for the last 10 years.

These derivatives, along with hedge funds, were designed to get around existing legislation and regulatory regimes. States like New York and Connecticut saw huge wealth windfalls and their powerful congressional and senatorial delegations had no interest whatsoever in bringing these instruments and their dealers under a regulatory regime.

So both Republican and Democrat congresses allowed the party to run its course.

Just the same, these were not illegal enterprises. There were no rules, and the congress had no incentive to create any.

It is sad when our media implies otherwise - it allows those who failed to create a regulatory framework off the hook as they go about blaming the people who were given incentives to take those risks.

Don't really understand the "extortion" angle.

Corrupt politicians are called out by name all the time in the press.

Why not corrupt executives?

I think we all knew this before the story broke. On principle, extortion is the basis for 90% of what the Democrats do. Whether it's "global warming" or Affirmative Action, it's all shakedowns.

re: #31 gregg

I saw on Huffpo that their posters thing this man is a major creep for complaining about his wages! This wealth envy is very destructive.

re: #184 Cognito

That is such a BS analogy, cog. AIG was given it's bailout, and with that money they honored the contracts they were obligated to pay- nothing underhanded about it because if Congress had taken the time to read their own legislation they'd have know about it. So to compare paying these contracts as akin to gambling is beneath even you.

re: #10 karmic_inquisitor

Thanks Charles.

Amazing how a guy charged with enforcing laws in the state of New York is so willing to adopt the practices of mobsters and thugs to win political points.

He's just following the lead of his predecessor, Slate columnist, Elliott Spitzer.

(And Rudy Giuliani, unfortunately.)

Can you make somebody work for $1 a year, and then when it comes time to pay them a bonus promised a year ago, pull the football away like Lucy and Charlie Brown?
If the companies didn't get Govt money, the individuals wouldn't be getting a bonus because there'd be no $$ and no company anymore, but the Gov did give the $$ to keep it viable and honoring previous employment contracts is just part of the good, the bad and the ugly. They should have made the terms clear 6 months ago, but everybody had to freak out and pass bills in 24 hours. So stupid. You can change the terms in midstream, but you can't make it retroactive. That's just basic. I as an employer cannot promise an employee money for work performed and then after the fact just say I don't feel like giving it to them because I think they make too much money. The best I can do is tell them from this point forward they can work for less or take a hike.
And the government cannot harass individuals like this- this is bullshit.

Microsoft did not set up a lobbying shop in Washington until after the Feds opened their antitrust case. The best investment any business can make, is in the correct politicians.

Cuomo's statements constitute a threat of mob violence.
Cuomo should be prosecuted for extortion.
He can't prosecute himself as A.G.
It would be up to Eric Holder, US A.G.
Fat chance.
Constitutional crisis?

Folks,

Forget about analyzing the constitutionality, legality or morality of what the AGs are doing. You are wasting your time.

Trying to convince someone that we are on the path to become Nazi Germany or Argentina or Facist Italy is farcical.

Worrying about how your nest egg or retirement assets based on todays laws and tax system is useless. The people in power will be able to change the rules at their whim in the future.

Don't get angry and protest or write letters to the editor. Accept what is happening as a fact. As real as an approaching hurricane.

Spend your time getting ready for life in a banana republic. When you are prepared, spend your time helping the ones close to you.

Wow!

I never though I'd say this:

Under the new Democrat administration, Congress and it's associates, America is now a thugocracy.

re: #7 Gella

can't u go to jail for extortion?

The AG is a Dem, so no.

re: #207 docremulac

Wow!

I never though I'd say this:

Under the new Democrat administration, Congress and it's associates, America is now a thugocracy.

Wow. . .I mean. . .holy SHIT! Do what we say or we will release the hounds. . .what FUCKING THUGS!

re: #208 mattm

The AG is a Dem, so no.

yep- good point. . .

We are indeed becoming a banana republic...

re: #69 rawmuse

The city of New York is largely supported by about 40 thousand taxpayers.
If I were them, I would move out.

I agree but it wouldn't help. If you work in the city of New York you pay income tax to the city REGARDLESS of where you live. Doesn't matter what city or state you live in.

re: #42 Desert Dog

I keep hearing about the contractual agreement to pay these bonus' out. If the company is insolvent and cannot pay it's bills, there is normally no bonus' given out. Usually, you lose your job and get nada. Perhaps I am missing something here and a better versed Lizard can explain this situation more clearly?

Since AIG wasn't forced into bankruptcy, they are not deemed insolvent by the government that is propping them up. Since they are getting the cash to operate, all contracts must be honored regardless of whether or not some stupid posturing politician wants to score points with the dumb masses.

re: #206 jester6

Spend your time getting ready for life in a banana republic. When you are prepared, spend your time helping the ones close to you.

My problem with this route is the blind acceptance of your fate as a subject that can be used and discarded by your government at whim.

I will say, in my entire life, i have never seen any craziness as bad as this AIG bonus issue. the more you learn about the situation, the more you realize that it is absolutely dead wrong to deny those bonuses. I know some polls say up to 75% of the people are opposed to them, but bluntly they are wrong, and i suspect, not told the whole story.

This is why Geitner wants authority to sieze institutions that don't want the government's help: because everyone in the business world knows how foul this is, and only the really, truly desperate companies want the government's help.

This is a piece of douchebagery the NYAG learned from his predecessor: Elliot Spitzer. In case anyone doesn't recall, his little foray into financial regulation in the early 2000s involved precisely the same sort of shakedown, using subpeona power to obtain records selectively released to the public to maximize embarassment of people who could not be proven to have broken the law. In case one doesn't recall, AIG was also one of his biggest victims. Personally, while I doubt these b**tards will ever face justice in this life, I hope there's a very special place in hell reserved for them.

According to Livy
Tarqinius cut off the heads of the tallest poppies in his garden as an allegory to instruct his son Sextus Tarquinius to pacify a recently-conquered enemy city by executing its leading citizens. This leads to the modern expression of "Tall Poppy Syndrome

At this rate Obama is going to enter an executive order that he now be pronounced; Obama Tarquinius Superbus Tyrannus.

Lucius Tarquinius Superbus

Remember the post-9/11 anthrax scare? The Bush administration (along with people like Charles Schumer) threatened to void the patent for an anti-anthrax drug if the price was too high. (Caution: according to the leftist link, such extortion doesn't go far enough!)

Weaponized anthrax is a national-security issue, so there might be some rationale for the Bush administration's behavior (although I'm inclined to doubt it).

The AIG bonuses are not a national-security issue.

IMHO we're going to see things that Bush did badly get done worse by Obama--but Obama wouldn't dare if Bush hadn't created a precedent for him.

re: #43 Kosh's Shadow:

"The 0bama administration has just hired the Piranha Brothers, Doug and Dinsdale...
It was called 'The Other Other Operation'.
Tonight on On 'Ethel the Frog':
Interviewer: I've been told Dinsdale Piranha nailed your head to the floor.
Stig: No. Never. He was a smashing bloke. He used to buy his mother flowers and that. He was like a brother to me.
Interviewer: But the police have film of Dinsdale actually nailing your head to the floor.
Stig: (pause) Oh yeah, he did that.
Interviewer: Why?
Stig: Well he had to, didn't he? I mean there was nothing else he could do, be fair. I had transgressed the unwritten law.
Interviewer: What had you done?
Stig: Er... well he didn't tell me that, but he gave me his word that it was the case, and that's good enough for me with old Dinsy. I mean, he didn't *want* to nail my head to the floor. I had to insist. He wanted to let me off. He'd do anything for you, Dinsdale would."

"...they began to operate what they called 'The Operation'... They would select a victim and then threaten to beat him up if he paid the so-called protection money. Four months later they started another operation which the called 'The Other Operation'. In this racket they selected another victim and threatened not to beat him up if he didn't pay them. One month later they hit upon 'The Other Other Operation'. In this the victim was threatened that if he didn't pay them, they would beat him up. This for the Piranha brothers was the turning point."

"...they didn't have their heads stuffed with all this Cartesian
dualism."

Andy Cuomo is now. in my minds eye, from this day forward "Dinsy" !
Thanks Kosh's Shadow/Monty Python !

re: #2 redc1c4

they should have told them to FO.

Everyone of them that caved should be let go, they are not the type that can solve complex problems in tough times.

Taxpaying union workers are supposed to renegotiate our contracts - take pay cuts - while we finance bail outs to capitalists and bonuses to corporate executives? I *almost* became a Republican - and behavior like this just repels me. So now it's between the Democrats who generally support workers and whose social policies are crap, and the Republicans - who despise workers but whose social policies are saner.

#221 nodeengineer 3/26/09 4:52:56 am

Taxpaying union workers are supposed to renegotiate our contracts - take pay cuts - while we finance bail outs to capitalists and bonuses to corporate executives?.. ... and behavior like this just repels me.

I don't see how the 2 separate issues are actually related to each other. While the Republicans are involved with the bail outs to an extent the Bailouts are owned by the Democrats so that's a push. The AIG bonus mess was created by the Democrats, and I don't see how the Republicans are involved with labor negotiations. If Unions are having to restructure their agreements that would seem to be dictated by necessity (not by Republicans). What exactly is the repulsive behavior by Republicans?

I'm pretty sure most people in general find the bonuses under the circumstances to be a bad idea although that should be looked at on a case by case basis. The issue should have been negotiated on the front end (pre-bailout). The beef being expressed on this thread is with out of control Govt. tactics against private citizens.

The issue should have been negotiated on the front end (pre-bailout).

Actually the bonuses were negotiated in by the Dodd et al, but it seems like the donks turned around and stabbed the AIG people in the back.