This is really bad.
When both the New York Times and the Washington Post publish a cartoon that belongs in a Nazi-era tabloid, we’ve crossed the line into very dangerous territory.
These newspapers should publish an apology for this absolutely outrageous cartoon. But I know they won’t.
4 |
WindHorse Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:51:05am |
And they wonder why their revenues are shrinking?
| 7 |
Ben Hur Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:52:22am |
1.5 BILLION MUSLIMS
500 MILLION ARABS
14 MILLION JEWS
| 10 |
Rednek Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:52:37am |
They deserve to go bankrupt rather than have the federal government give this shit a subsidy.
| 11 |
pink freud Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:52:39am |
No longer OT:
The Times Plans Temporary Pay Cuts
"Facing a steep drop in revenue, The New York Times Company plans to cut the pay of most employees by 5 percent for nine months, in return for 10 days’ leave, and will lay off 100 people and make other budget cuts, executives said on Thursday."
I think they should voluntarily give up much more than that, don't you?
Coming on top of not getting called on by the 0-chump at his lil press conference thingy, this has to sting.
| 12 |
JohnnyReb Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:52:42am |
I had better not type what I am thinking. Don't want to get [deleted].
| 14 |
LGoPs Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:53:06am |
To all who think that it can't happen ever again.....think again and be on guard. It is happening in front of our eyes.
| 16 |
Right mind left Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:53:09am |
re: #3 buzzsawmonkey
Is the figure on the left headless, or is the head just small and largely covered by the right arm?
The head is the Star, suggesting they are forging ahead beheaded on a quest to eat Gaza. Totally insane.
| 17 |
Sharmuta Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:53:12am |
re: #4 WindHorse
And they wonder why their revenues are shrinking?
Kind of makes me not feel bad the nyt is laying people off.
| 18 |
WindHorse Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:53:18am |
the day a law is passed to subsidize the likes of this bullshit with taxpayer money is the day I list my house and move elsewhere (anywhere!)
| 21 |
JohnnyReb Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:54:26am |
re: #14 LGoPs
To all who think that it can't happen ever again.....think again and be on guard. It is happening in front of our eyes.
You know what? A year or so ago I would have called you nuts for saying that. Not anymore.
| 23 |
FrogMarch Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:54:40am |
Disgusting and shameful. shame on the NYSlimes and the Wapo.
| 25 |
Guanxi88 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:54:58am |
Hi, I could do with out.
Like from the Mikado, he never would be missed.
| 26 |
Ward Cleaver Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:54:59am |
Like I just said on the last thread, Oliphant is a scumbag.
| 27 |
Ben Hur Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:55:09am |
re: #23 FrogMarch
Disgusting and shameful. shame on the NYSlimes and the Wapo.
They're just jumping on the bandwagon.
| 28 |
LGoPs Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:55:26am |
It's pretty badly done if you ask me. Oliphant is so driven to get his hate across that he forgot to be coherent.
Doesn't make it any less hateful though.
Bastard.
| 30 |
subsailor68 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:55:44am |
Mr. Oliphant,
I assure you that I fully understand that the First Amendment is there to protect speech with which I disagree. I defend to the death that concept, and your right to create that cartoon and send it out into the marketplace of ideas.
With your kind permission, I shall now exercise my right to free speech:
Your work is revolting, disgusting, and despicable.
There, now we've both had our say.
| 31 |
doppelganglander Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:55:44am |
Everytime I look at the news, I feel like I'm being Gaslighted.
| 32 |
redheadredstate Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:55:51am |
Oh my G-d! What the hell is going on in this country?
| 33 |
Ward Cleaver Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:55:51am |
re: #24 NukeAtomrod
What the hell does this even mean?!?!
Only Oliphant's fevered, ossified brain knows.
| 34 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:55:57am |
I haven't followed Oliphant, or any other print journalism, cartoonist in years.
Is this an out-of-the-blue wacko-out for him, or has it been building?
| 35 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:56:04am |
Why are we seeing this in the 21st century?
| 36 |
Guanxi88 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:56:16am |
re: #31 doppelganglander
Everytime I look at the news, I feel like I'm being Gaslighted.
Nice movie work-in.
| 37 |
Sharmuta Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:56:16am |
re: #20 Sharmuta
Wow- they updated that fast:
A 2009 cartoon about the recent war on Gaza sparked criticism amongst American Jews. Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director, issued the following statement: "Pat Oliphant's outlandish and offensive use of the Star of David in combination with Nazi-like imagery is hideously anti-Semitic. It employs Nazi imagery by portraying Israel as a jack-booted, goose-stepping headless apparition. The implication is of an Israeli policy without a head or a heart. Israel's defensive military operation to protect the lives of its men, women and children who are being continuously bombarded by Hamas rocket attacks has been turned on its head to show the victims as heartless, headless aggressors". The Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center, a Jewish rights group with more than 400,000 members in the United States, said the cartoon denigrates and demonizes Israel and mimics the Nazi propaganda. It called on The New York Times and other media groups to remove the cartoon from their Web sites.
| 38 |
Honorary Yooper Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:56:19am |
At first glance, I could've sworn this came from a mid-1930s German newspaper. I guess Jew hate is chic with the left again.
| 39 |
FloridaAnole Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:56:23am |
Unbelievable. And back in the 70's Pat Oliphant was some kind of great Liberal totem, second only to Herblock. One of their "good guys". The dude has gone completely off the rails, as have the two newspapers that actually printed this abomination. It shows you how liberalism has "evolved" -- into something unspeakable.
| 41 |
snowcrash Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:56:44am |
Is this an expression of unhappiness with Nettanyahu as PM or something more? American Jews cannot be ok with this poison.
| 42 |
Ward Cleaver Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:56:51am |
re: #32 redheadredstate
Oh my G-d! What the hell is going on in this country?
Stuff like this scares the hell out of me. It's like the MSM is trying to grease the skids for something.
| 43 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:57:00am |
re: #15 Silvergirl
Who is the cartoonist?
Oliphant -- one of the giants (a few decades ago, at least.)
| 44 |
NukeAtomrod Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:57:26am |
I'm thinking about moving Winston Churchill's remains to the Pet Sematary next to Reagan.
| 45 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:57:38am |
re: #16 Right mind left
The head is the Star, suggesting they are forging ahead beheaded on a quest to eat Gaza. Totally insane.
OH. OK, it's still disgusting, but now I at least sort of have the concept.
Why is his head on a wheel?
| 46 |
Dustyvet Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:57:47am |
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
Then they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.
Then they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews,
I did not speak out;
I was not a Jew.
When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out for me.
| 47 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:57:53am |
At least it's out in the open. This may open some eyes, make some people wake up and see what is going on. I'm thinking of people like my mother, who don't care about politics, but would be revolted by this.
| 48 |
Athos Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:58:01am |
Just what we need - a wanker trying to out Ted Rall Ted Rall.
The fact that the editorial page editors in the NYT or WaPo have an issue with this is a clear example of the moral and intellectual bankruptcy of the hard left.....and that fundamentally, they are the fascists they accuse the right of being.
| 49 |
Honorary Yooper Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:58:16am |
| 50 |
essayons7 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:58:30am |
That is astonishingly bad. Hard to believe it's from an American paper. Pure crap.
| 51 |
redheadredstate Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:58:38am |
This is NOT the country I grew up in. What do we have to do to remove the scales from people's eyes? When will they see? I'm not Jewish but I'm furious about this. The MSM isn't just irrelevant, they're evil!
| 52 |
Ward Cleaver Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:58:52am |
| 53 |
Ward Cleaver Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:59:17am |
re: #45 SanFranciscoZionist
OH. OK, it's still disgusting, but now I at least sort of have the concept.
Why is his head on a wheel?
It's a machine?
| 54 |
Ringo the Gringo Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:59:37am |
Oliphant, he's the same guy who bought us this knee-slapper.
| 55 |
Sharmuta Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:59:45am |
He has the right in this country to draw such things, to wish I'm free to say he can go fuck himself. But I'm more appalled the nyt and wapo would run it. Shame on them and may their bankruptcy come swiftly. They deserve it.
| 56 |
SecondComing Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:59:54am |
It's over the line. But this is the norm now. You can't go into a bookstore or coffee shop without hearing some college student advocating for the Palestinians and demonizing the Israelis. When professors and journalists are pushing this viewpoint is it any wonder?
| 57 |
Catttt Thu, Mar 26, 2009 10:59:56am |
My jaw hit the desk. Just when you think you've seen it all, something else rolls out of a hole.
| 58 |
Honorary Yooper Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:00:00am |
The asshole cartoonist even made sure to include jackboots on the figure.
| 59 |
LGoPs Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:00:03am |
re: #35 EmmmieG
Why are we seeing this in the 21st century?
Good question and a warning not to be deluded by thinking that we are enlightened and sophisticated and educated enough to ward off future evils. We are as gullible and prone to manipulation as any witch hunting crowd from the Dark Ages. perhaps more so because of the illusion of access to information, which without the attendant education and wisdom to process it can be used to whip people into a mindless frenzy. I'm not saying you are like this, btw. Just making the observation.
| 60 |
pink freud Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:00:03am |
re: #37 Sharmuta
You're mighty good at this, Sharm. You've become a valuable source of info for me. I think your posts hold top spot in my bookmarks. :-)
| 62 |
Sharmuta Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:00:36am |
re: #50 essayons7
That is astonishingly bad. Hard to believe it's from an American paper. Pure crap.
This is the sort of cartoon the arab papers run.
| 63 |
reloadingisnotahobby Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:00:36am |
This is imposible!
Everyone nows that Joooos own the media,banking,Gov...
The Electrical Grid...Coal mines,Natural gas....etc....
must I? ok/////////
| 64 |
summergurl Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:00:46am |
Oh now I understand why the government wants to bail them out - so they can continue their brainwashing of Americans.
They wouldn't have printed this if there a Koran in the picture.
| 65 |
Ariel Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:01:00am |
Supposedly, the media is about speaking truth to power. Here, would be truth to power - The jackbooted marcher, wearing a kaffiyeh, walks with his Muslim crescent trying to eat the innocent victims of Sderot.
Of course, such a cartoon would violate the Muhammad cartoons publication canon - thou shalt not publish something offensive to Muslims.
Further, people might reasonably argue that such a cartoon is anti-Muslim, demonizes a religion, etc. (despite its greater accuracy). Giving someone a platform to demonize a religion might not be such a great thing, particularly in our newspapers of record. Maybe that same standard should apply to non-Muslim religions as well?
| 66 |
Catttt Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:01:02am |
Are they going to use the excuse that this is about Zionism, not Judaism? Because that ain't going to fly this time.
| 67 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:01:03am |
Not only is it offensive, but that star of David looks like something from the Beatles Yellow Submarine movie.
I remember a great pro-Israel cartoon from Oliphant, celebrating the successful raid on Entebbe. He's fallen a long way since then.
I'm 99.999999999 percent sure you won't see me and other Jews rioting and making death threats over this.
| 69 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:01:28am |
re: #38 Honorary Yooper
At first glance, I could've sworn this came from a mid-1930s German newspaper. I guess Jew hate is chic with the left again.
It always has been.
| 70 |
ladycatnip Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:01:29am |
What a grief to my soul and the soul of America. These papers should be run out on a rail. This cannot be tolerated.
| 71 |
LGoPs Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:01:38am |
re: #55 Sharmuta
He has the right in this country to draw such things, to wish I'm free to say he can go fuck himself. But I'm more appalled the nyt and wapo would run it. Shame on them and may their bankruptcy come swiftly. They deserve it.
They would certainly censor themselves if the cartoon was in any way racist or homophobic or.....take your pick of any liberal cause.
Which means they actively suport this.
Bastards.
| 72 |
Ward Cleaver Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:01:57am |
re: #55 Sharmuta
He has the right in this country to draw such things, to wish I'm free to say he can go fuck himself. But I'm more appalled the nyt and wapo would run it. Shame on them and may their bankruptcy come swiftly. They deserve it.
Sadly, the Obama administration will bail them out, but it'll just be forestalling the inevitable.
| 73 |
Sharmuta Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:02:04am |
re: #67 Mad Al-Jaffee
Not only is it offensive, but that star of David looks like something from the Beatles Yellow Submarine movie.
It does remind me of Glove.
| 76 |
unreconstructed rebel Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:02:21am |
I can't help but wonder what passes for history classes these days. It is truly remarkable how misinformed most Americans are.
| 77 |
Guanxi88 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:02:29am |
re: #38 Honorary Yooper
At first glance, I could've sworn this came from a mid-1930s German newspaper. I guess Jew hate is chic with the left again.
Well, since we come every day to more and more resemble the worst aspects of the Weimar Republic, maybe this isn't as surprising as we'd all hoped it would be.
| 79 |
Sharmuta Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:02:53am |
re: #62 Sharmuta
This is the sort of cartoon the arab papers run.
I bet the arab papers ARE running this.
| 80 |
cminmn Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:02:58am |
It is a good thing congress wants to get the newspapers into the bailout lines. It is difficult not to be scared about where we seem to be headed.
| 82 |
Tom Taylor Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:03:10am |
They will get their bailout or will be bought by some Arabic investment group.
So what?
Writing the truth? - Never ever again.
| 83 |
Neoconundrum Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:03:27am |
Terrorism, financial crisis, doubt...
As history has shown, the perfect ingredients for anti-Semitism.
LGF and the participants here will keep a light on the subject I'm sure, and as long as the US remains free, we'll be fine.
If not, Israel is there.
| 84 |
Honorary Yooper Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:03:30am |
re: #56 SecondComing
The advocating for the Palestinians, IMHO, by the Left is not because they are pro-Palestinian, nor because they even care anything for the people in Gaza or the West Bank. It is, instead, symptomatic of their own personal Jew-hatred that they have within their soul. They are pro-Palestinian only because they are anti-Israel.
It is disgusting, and it is merely a cover for their Jew-hate.
| 85 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:03:30am |
| 86 |
CyanSnowHawk Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:03:35am |
re: #37 Sharmuta
That won't last long on WikiPedia.
| 87 |
Guanxi88 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:03:40am |
re: #74 buzzsawmonkey
I wonder what Oliphant's Al-Jazeera syndication deal looks like?
Signed in Blood, most likely. Maybe with some nice Kufic calligraphy across the top.
| 88 |
DaddyG Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:04:16am |
(Topical repost from previous thread)
Meanwhile the shape of a swirl on an ice cream cup that superficially resembled the name of Allah (whle squinting at it from 30 feet away) is enough to incite jihad...
Draw your own conclusions about who is civilized.
| 89 |
turn Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:04:20am |
re: #3 buzzsawmonkey
Is the figure on the left headless, or is the head just small and largely covered by the right arm?
My guess is it's headless, what this symbolizes I have no idea. I'll have to read on, I'm sure others have some suggestions. Pretty disgusting none the less.
| 90 |
SalsaNChips Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:04:21am |
That's really, really, really bad. Makes the Obama "monkey" cartoon from a few weeks back look positively tame in comparison.
The good news (if there is any) is that the NYT and WP are fading very quickly and soon enough (assuming the don't get a bail-out) will be no more.
| 91 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:04:22am |
re: #32 redheadredstate
Oh my G-d! What the hell is going on in this country?
Both Christians and conservative Jews get vilified in the press on a daily basis. Muslims get a pass. Historical references to pre war Germany are spot on and greatly disturbing. Couple this to Obama's civilian defense corp and you have a pretty good recreation of most depots.
| 92 |
realwest Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:04:32am |
I can't really add anything to the expressions of disgust and outrage folks out here have already expressed. However, some of you may recall that some folks have talked about the Federal Government supporting (propping up would be more like it) newspapers, I'd like to suggest that y'all write to you representative in the House of Representatives and to your Senators regarding both the horrid cartoon published by the WaPo and the NY Times as well as your views on President Obama's proposed budget and economic "plan". And, lest you think that it would be an exercise in futility, may I remind you that they are supposed to represent us. Firm (but polite) letters concerning this cartoon, the idea of the Government supporting newspapers and other matters can be sent to:[Link: www.house.gov...] as well as to: [Link: www.senate.gov...]
| 93 |
em_bug Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:04:53am |
Wow. That is too disgusting for words. Now let's see if CNN devotes an entire morning to talking about how offensive this is like they did with the ridiculous controversy over the chimp cartoon. NOT!
| 94 |
daledog Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:05:00am |
If someone told me that this came from a KKK publication I would have to believe them.
GWB is not around - time to double-down on the Jews I guess.
Sick.
| 95 |
Honorary Yooper Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:05:03am |
re: #69 SanFranciscoZionist
It always has been.
It seemed to fall out of favor, or be deeply buried in the Left after 1945 though. It's seeing a resurgence currently.
| 96 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:05:22am |
re: #41 snowcrash
Is this an expression of unhappiness with Nettanyahu as PM or something more? American Jews cannot be ok with this poison.
We ain't.
Netanyahu has something to do with it, I'm sure. He's always upset the American left a lot.
But this is getting more and more standard, as the endless poison drip that says that the Palestinian/Israeli conflict is the worst thing that's ever happened on God's earth.
| 97 |
pink freud Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:05:44am |
re: #38 Honorary Yooper
At first glance, I could've sworn this came from a mid-1930s German newspaper. I guess Jew hate is chic with the left again.
A kid that goes to college with my daughter declared that he wished to be Pres one day so that he could destroy Israel. She asked him why. His answer: 'Because without Israel the world would live in peace.' Knowing the REAL history, she queried him further. He knew NOTHING of the history of Israel ...nothing.
It just needed to be destroyed.
It was her first brush with that irrational hatred, and it shook her enough to call me and discuss it.
| 98 |
Gang of One Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:05:57am |
And these people -- Oliphant, the Times, the Post -- honestly believe they are being edgy "speaking truth to power". They truly do not see the parrallels between what they believe and what the National Socialist believed 70 years ago. Their projection is reaching epic proportions. When do we start fighting back and leaving welts?
| 99 |
ladycatnip Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:06:17am |
#72 Ward Cleaver
Sadly, the Obama administration will bail them out, but it'll just be forestalling the inevitable.
The only reason Pelosi and Obama want to bail out the press is to have their very own little Pravda churning out propaganda and lies.
| 100 |
Nevergiveup Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:06:19am |
Any of my Jewish relatives and friends who don't see how the left is deviating into dangerous anti-semitic territory, well just kneel down a bit and let have a good shot at that chin of yours.
| 101 |
MandyManners Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:06:19am |
Wiki:
Patrick Bruce "Pat" Oliphant (b. July 24, 1934 in Adelaide, Australia) is the most widely syndicated political cartoonist in the world, described by the New York Times as "the most influential cartoonist now working"
| 102 |
Athos Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:06:28am |
Hot Air is running a poll on this cartoon - Rational criticism or Anti-semitism? When I voted in the poll, it was showing 84% believe it is anti-semitic.
| 103 |
smokefire Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:06:30am |
Wow, imagine the furor if a Confederate flag and noose was depicted in a cartoon, or cartoons of Mohammad for that matter.
| 104 |
filetandrelease Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:06:33am |
Gross this is coming from MSM. You know the sames ones that refused to print the infamous Mo cartoons. What a bunch of chicken shits.
| 107 |
alegrias Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:07:01am |
re: #32 redheadredstate
Oh my G-d! What the hell is going on in this country?
* * *
Get a grip, the WashPost and NYT are NOT THE COUNTRY.
They are rapidly shrinking shrieking losers.
| 108 |
yma o hyd Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:07:09am |
re: #38 Honorary Yooper
At first glance, I could've sworn this came from a mid-1930s German newspaper. I guess Jew hate is chic with the left again.
It has always been chic - but for a time it was disguised behind the 'concern' for the poor pali refugees'.
Now they obviously feel its safe to show their Jew Hate openly.
| 109 |
MandyManners Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:07:32am |
re: #101 MandyManners
Oliphant's work, which from time to time employs ethnic caricatures, has occasionally been criticized. In 2001, the Asian American Journalists Association accused Oliphant of "cross[ing] the line from acerbic depiction to racial caricature".[1] In 2005, the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee expressed concern that some of Oliphant's caricatures were racist and misleading.[2] In 2007, two Oliphant cartoons produced a similar response.
A 2009 cartoon about the recent war on Gaza sparked criticism amongst American Jews. Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director, issued the following statement: "Pat Oliphant's outlandish and offensive use of the Star of David in combination with Nazi-like imagery is hideously anti-Semitic. It employs Nazi imagery by portraying Israel as a jack-booted, goose-stepping headless apparition. The implication is of an Israeli policy without a head or a heart. Israel's defensive military operation to protect the lives of its men, women and children who are being continuously bombarded by Hamas rocket attacks has been turned on its head to show the victims as heartless, headless aggressors". The Los Angeles-based Simon Wiesenthal Center, a Jewish rights group with more than 400,000 members in the United States, said the cartoon denigrates and demonizes Israel and mimics the Nazi propaganda. It called on The New York Times and other media groups to remove the cartoon from their Web sites.
| 111 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:07:46am |
re: #62 Sharmuta
This is the sort of cartoon the arab papers run.
The Soviet papers did the same. American cartoonists are slightly crippled by the fact that big honking noses on their Jews will not fly.
| 112 |
LGoPs Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:07:51am |
re: #39 FloridaAnole
Unbelievable. And back in the 70's Pat Oliphant was some kind of great Liberal totem, second only to Herblock. One of their "good guys". The dude has gone completely off the rails, as have the two newspapers that actually printed this abomination. It shows you how liberalism has "evolved" -- into something unspeakable.
Liberalism is a big lie that needs to be challenged wherever it's met. It benefits greatly from the perception that it is tolerant and generous and open-minded when it is exactly the opposite.
How it came to be this way is beyond me and how it survives, with daily examples of shrill, shrieking leftists, is even more perplexing. All the more reason to confront it and expose it for the hateful, fascist, totalitarian philosophy that it is.
| 113 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:07:55am |
re: #90 SalsaNChips
That's really, really, really bad. Makes the Obama "monkey" cartoon from a few weeks back look positively tame in comparison.
The good news (if there is any) is that the NYT and WP are fading very quickly and soon enough (assuming the don't get a bail-out) will be no more.
Uh, it dealt with Travis the chimp and two police officers commenting on the fact that the author of the bailout was dead. Obama didn't write the bill. Suspect it came from Pelosi's office.
| 114 |
Gang of One Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:07:56am |
re: #88 DaddyG
(Topical repost from previous thread)
Meanwhile the shape of a swirl on an ice cream cup that superficially resembled the name of Allah (whle squinting at it from 30 feet away) is enough to incite jihad...
Draw your own conclusions about who is scared shitless of those who would kill because they are offended
civilized.
FTFY
| 115 |
pink freud Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:08:03am |
re: #98 Gang of One
And these people -- Oliphant, the Times, the Post -- honestly believe they are being edgy "speaking truth to power". They truly do not see the parrallels between what they believe and what the National Socialist believed 70 years ago. Their projection is reaching epic proportions. When do we start fighting back and leaving welts?
Why do you believe they don't see the parallels? I think they know exactly what they are doing and see the parallels clearly.
| 116 |
JohnnyReb Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:08:16am |
re: #98 Gang of One
And these people -- Oliphant, the Times, the Post -- honestly believe they are being edgy "speaking truth to power". They truly do not see the parrallels between what they believe and what the National Socialist believed 70 years ago. Their projection is reaching epic proportions. When do we start fighting back and leaving welts?
All Hitler needed to come to power was a depression, big time unemployment and a bunch of people who believed in his mission statement. Just sayin.....
| 117 |
Guanxi88 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:08:29am |
re: #107 alegrias
* * *
Get a grip, the WashPost and NYT are NOT THE COUNTRY.
They are rapidly shrinking shrieking losers.
There's no grip to get, in this case. These publications are the official party and house organs for the leadership clique now in charge. This is where their opinions are aired, echoed, and confirmed. You see this, you see the left speaking to itself, telling itself the things it knows already.
| 118 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:08:30am |
re: #66 Catttt
Are they going to use the excuse that this is about Zionism, not Judaism? Because that ain't going to fly this time.
Uh, yes, they are going to use that excuse.
| 119 |
Dustyvet Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:08:40am |
re: #103 smokefire
Wow, imagine the furor if a Confederate flag and noose was depicted in a cartoon, or cartoons of Mohammad for that matter.
DAZZLE THEM WITH BRILLIANCE, BAFFLE THEM WITH BULLSHIT!
| 120 |
alegrias Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:08:41am |
re: #98 Gang of One
And these people -- Oliphant, the Times, the Post -- honestly believe they are being edgy "speaking truth to power". They truly do not see the parrallels between what they believe and what the National Socialist believed 70 years ago. Their projection is reaching epic proportions. When do we start fighting back and leaving welts?
* * *
We subscribe to their competition and let WaPo & NYT shrivel up & disappear.
| 121 |
hepcat Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:08:48am |
Which reminds me...
it's time to renew my donation to the Simon Wiesenthal Center and the ADL.
| 122 |
Kosh's Shadow Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:08:51am |
How long before the papers blame the Jooos for their losses?
Well, in a sense; I stopped buying the Boston Globe because of their anti-Israel attitude, and told them so, with an email to the editors listed on the editorial page.
I never received a response, but as they had stopped sending me the boilerplate receipt for letters to the editor, I think they put me in their spam filter.
| 123 |
joncelli Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:08:52am |
re: #107 alegrias
Ordinarily I would shrug and agree. But they are still influential, and what happens if they get a bailout? Maybe the NYT will become the house newspaper for the federal government. Then what? Look to the auto industry. If you take government gold then you take government orders.
| 125 |
Sharmuta Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:09:09am |
I went to look up a saudi paper, and they have a vile cartoon about Sarkozy.
| 126 |
Nevergiveup Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:09:22am |
re: #107 alegrias
* * *
Get a grip, the WashPost and NYT are NOT THE COUNTRY.
They are rapidly shrinking shrieking losers.
Yes very true, but the fact that they can print something like this and not have mass advertisers revolting and readership plunging over night is still reveling.
| 127 |
smokefire Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:09:27am |
re: #119 Dustyvet
glad to see that you are not asleep Dusty
| 128 |
Nevergiveup Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:09:55am |
re: #111 SanFranciscoZionist
The Soviet papers did the same. American cartoonists are slightly crippled by the fact that big honking noses on their Jews will not fly.
If this flys, just wait. Just wait.
| 129 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:09:57am |
re: #67 Mad Al-Jaffee
I'm 99.999999999 percent sure you won't see me and other Jews rioting and making death threats over this.
Maybe we should. Hey, ya wanna riot? Meet me at the Starbucks!
//
| 131 |
turn Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:10:23am |
re: #24 NukeAtomrod
What the hell does this even mean?!?!
Seriously. I was staring at that thing wondering if O had somehow already legalized pot and the cartoonist got the jump on the rest of us.
| 132 |
Spartacus50 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:10:30am |
The Final Solution to the Israel Question?
| 133 |
Westward Ho Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:10:34am |
The worst sin is that it is not even funny, it's more like a third rate propaganda poster.
| 134 |
realwest Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:10:45am |
re: #102 Athos Hello my friend. I don't understand how 4% in that poll could possibly be undecided (and also suspect that the 11% who don't think this cartoon is Anti-Semitic are themselves Anit-Semites). But thank you for linking that so I could go and register my vote.
| 135 |
smokefire Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:10:55am |
re: #129 SanFranciscoZionist
Maybe we should. Hey, ya wanna riot? Meet me at the Starbucks!
//
.................there are only riots when hot dogs are not kosher.
| 136 |
Dustyvet Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:11:00am |
| 138 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:11:16am |
re: #129 SanFranciscoZionist
Maybe we should. Hey, ya wanna riot? Meet me at the Starbucks!
//
Wouldn't the Asutralian embassy be more appropriate? :)
| 140 |
Nevergiveup Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:11:56am |
| 141 |
alegrias Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:12:03am |
re: #106 formercorpsman
This is unreal.
* * *
No, this IS real--recall both these publications also accused Pres. Bush of genocide, when he was liberating people, like Gen. Eisenhower liberated concentration camps.
Both these publications refused to blame Saddam Hussein for crimes against humanity.
| 143 |
dhg4 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:12:32am |
This isn't the first time. He is extremely anti-Israel, and in this case he's clearly crossed the line.
But consider that 3 years ago a pair of academics wrote a book condemning the influence of the "Israel lobby." And a recent government appointee echoed the charge when he withdrew from consideration.
Look at the FBI's Hate Crimes statistics for 2007, the most recent statistics available. There have been roughly twice as many anti-Black incidents as antisemitic. However given that there are roughly 7 times as many blacks as Jews in America, per capita the rate of antisemitic hate crimes is much higher!
Antisemitism - the hate that folks just don't worry about.
| 144 |
LGoPs Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:12:50am |
re: #139 buzzsawmonkey
Jimmy Carter actually used that phrase to praise Yossi Beilin's "Geneva Peace Plan" about five years ago.
What a mindless idiot. Even if he didn't mean it in that context, to be so historically illiterate and clueless of the infamy behind those words is mind boggling.
| 145 |
Dustyvet Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:12:52am |
re: #139 buzzsawmonkey
Jimmy Carter actually used that phrase to praise Yossi Beilin's "Geneva Peace Plan" about five years ago.
I suspect that Jimmy Carter mainlines chunky peanut butter...
/S
| 146 |
Nevergiveup Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:12:58am |
| 147 |
Gang of One Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:13:01am |
re: #115 pink freud
Why do you believe they don't see the parallels? I think they know exactly what they are doing and see the parallels clearly.
You know, on second thought, I believe you are right. They must be very proud of their 'insight'.
*SPIT*
| 148 |
realwest Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:13:13am |
re: #123 joncelli Respectfully, if you are concerned with the Fed's "bailing out" the newspapers, you might want to consider taking the time to write or e-mail your congresscritters as I suggested (and gave links to find how to reach yours) as my #92 above.
| 149 |
Opinionated Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:13:19am |
For us Jews, it's becoming more certain each day that what seemed like the paranoid fears of the Holocaust generation might be coming true- it can happen anywhere.
Anti Semitism is becoming respectable. The Olypant cartoon is not just hateful, it is a clear and present danger.
If the Star of David is the symbol of shark like unfeeling killers, who target innocents and children- these unfeeling killers must be put down.
You will find a Star of David on every Synagogue.
THE CARTOON IS A CALL TO HARM JEWS.
I fear we- Jews- may soon experience the shock that some of our parents recognized in the 30's and 40's when anti Semites who have hidden their hate for social expediency begin to be comfortable expressing their true feelings. Others may just join the mob.
Oliphant came out of the anti Semitic bunker today. Who will come next?
And as telling- who will stand up and object?
About the cartoon -from prominent sources -there is just silence.
| 150 |
hous bin pharteen Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:13:20am |
It does not surprising to me. The left has been indoctrinating our kids for years. In the universities and high schools throughout the country. Especially the universities. I saw it happening in the 80's! They wanted to get of R.O.T.C. then!
With the media now, no one saw anything wrong with it. It surprises me talk radio and Fox news is still around. But both are targets of those fools.
| 151 |
Sharmuta Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:13:23am |
re: #104 filetandrelease
Gross this is coming from MSM. You know the sames ones that refused to print the infamous Mo cartoons. What a bunch of chicken shits.
Hypocrites.
| 152 |
unrealizedviewpoint Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:13:48am |
re: #44 NukeAtomrod
I'm thinking about moving Winston Churchill's remains to the Pet Sematary next to Reagan.
What does this mean? I don't get it.
| 153 |
ModernDayPrayer Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:13:49am |
I really can't believe that this was published in a mainstream American newspaper. Disgusting.
| 154 |
DaddyG Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:13:52am |
re: #116 JohnnyReb
All Hitler needed to come to power was a depression, big time unemployment and a bunch of people who believed in his mission statement. Just sayin.....
It's not Godwin's law if they really are acting like Nazi's.
It is scary that so many Americans are ignorant enough of history to buy this repackaged 1930's and 1940's propaganda.
| 155 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:14:05am |
re: #116 JohnnyReb
All Hitler needed to come to power was a depression, big time unemployment and a bunch of people who believed in his mission statement. Just sayin.....
One thing more. Hitler rode to power by stoking the lie that Germany could have fought on in WWI, and won. The idea was that Germany had been betrayed by those in power -- that right-thinking Germans had been the victims of a vast conspiracy.
Does the underlying concept sound vaguely familiar?
| 156 |
turn Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:14:13am |
re: #37 Sharmuta
Thanks for that, now I understand. A headless, heartless goosestepper.
| 157 |
Sheila Broflovski Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:14:21am |
I spun this abomination last night.
| 158 |
pink freud Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:14:49am |
re: #107 alegrias
* * *
Get a grip, the WashPost and NYT are NOT THE COUNTRY.
They are rapidly shrinking shrieking losers.
Please don't attempt to diminish the power they still wield, this only minimizes the horror of what they are publishing.
They are losers who still happen to still be the cornerstone of the MFMSM.
| 159 |
dhg4 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:15:03am |
re: #92 realwest
I can't really add anything to the expressions of disgust and outrage folks out here have already expressed. However, some of you may recall that some folks have talked about the Federal Government supporting (propping up would be more like it) newspapers, I'd like to suggest that y'all write to you representative in the House of Representatives and to your Senators regarding both the horrid cartoon published by the WaPo and the NY Times as well as your views on President Obama's proposed budget and economic "plan". And, lest you think that it would be an exercise in futility, may I remind you that they are supposed to represent us. Firm (but polite) letters concerning this cartoon, the idea of the Government supporting newspapers and other matters can be sent to:[Link: www.house.gov...] as well as to: [Link: www.senate.gov...]
Since the sponsor of that bill is Ben Cardin (my *sigh* Senator) you might want to try his office directly.
| 161 |
LGoPs Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:15:25am |
re: #123 joncelli
Ordinarily I would shrug and agree. But they are still influential, and what happens if they get a bailout? Maybe the NYT will become the house newspaper for the federal government. Then what? Look to the auto industry. If you take government gold then you take government orders.
You get Pravda and Izvestia. Which, in my opinion, is what he have already to a large degree with the MFM.
| 162 |
AMER1CAN Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:15:40am |
Israeli cartoon fury claims lives
Israeli protesters outside the American embassy in Jerusalem
The American embassy in Jerusalem was the scene of angry protests
At least five people have been killed in Israel as protests against American cartoons swept across the country.Two people died when protesters turned on the US airbase although the US has had no involvement with the images, which originated in the New York Times.
Meanwhile in Serdot, a teenage boy died after protesters attacked police.
Israel announced it was halting trade with America, as protesters pelted the American embassy with petrol bombs.
....
Oh wait, sorry, that didn't happen.
| 163 |
FloridaAnole Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:15:40am |
What I fear is that this represents the attitude of Washington's new [gag] Power Elite, particularly in the Administration's State and NSC operations. We have Obama sending secret mash notes to dinnerjacket (so far a case of unrequited love), Hillary's on-again, off-again approach to Israel (as well as her assertion, by the way, that the Mexican Drug War is our fault), and of course in the background, the detestable Samantha Power and acolytes who have slid into the Foreign Policy apparatus carefully unremarked by the MSM.
| 164 |
Sheila Broflovski Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:15:41am |
re: #97 pink freud
A kid that goes to college with my daughter declared that he wished to be Pres one day so that he could destroy Israel. She asked him why. His answer: 'Because without Israel the world would live in peace.' Knowing the REAL history, she queried him further. He knew NOTHING of the history of Israel ...nothing.
It just needed to be destroyed.
It was her first brush with that irrational hatred, and it shook her enough to call me and discuss it.
He is probably on the fast track to tenure.
| 165 |
Ozymandias Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:15:58am |
I just noticed the teeth and the eye. strange. no rioting though. if it had been the ROP, i don't know if that would be the case.
| 166 |
LindaMarie Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:15:59am |
re: #99 ladycatnip
#72 Ward Cleaver
The only reason Pelosi and Obama want to bail out the press is to have their very own little Pravda churning out propaganda and lies.
Triple updings - I only get one?
Darn
| 167 |
reggie Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:16:00am |
I am, of course, insulted as a Jew and as a Zionist. Non-Jewish non-Zionist political cartoonists should be insulted, too, by the shear uncreativity of the scene.
| 168 |
DaddyG Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:16:37am |
re: #145 Dustyvet
I suspect that Jimmy Carter mainlines chunky peanut butter...
/S
The tainted stuff from PCA.
/
| 169 |
Kragar Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:16:43am |
WTF IS THIS HORSEHIT?
We are living in dark times
| 170 |
Neoconundrum Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:17:04am |
CAMERA already on it...
[Link: www.camera.org...]
| 171 |
yesandno Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:17:26am |
This isn't a cartoon....
Its a vile editorial comment....
It isn't the truth, it is propoganda.
Not a dime for the NY Times..
....hope they go down the toilet. Right after that POS Oliphant circles the bowl......
| 172 |
CyanSnowHawk Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:17:43am |
OT:
Looks like someone with an (R) next to their name is not too thrilled with this Global Currency idea.
| 173 |
NukeAtomrod Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:17:51am |
I have to admit I don't understand anti-Semites at all. I can't imagine what the problem is. It's just totally irrational.
All I can say is: When they come for you this time, I'm going to be standing beside you. We might as well fight the fascist-commie bastards together, rather then let them divide us and destroy us bit by bit.
Charles, I hope I'm not crossing the line. I don't advocate violence. I am willing to defend against those who would do violence to us.
| 174 |
vagabond trader Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:18:07am |
re: #149 Opinionated
I would like the outrage to first be voiced by prominent leftist Jews.Academics, politicians, business leaders,entertainers, journalists. Where are they on this?
| 175 |
Gang of One Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:18:39am |
re: #146 Nevergiveup
Just a hunch, but they'll endorse
excuseit.
So many liberal Jews I know talk about how they stand behind Israel -- but only when it appeases the Islamists that wish to annihilate it. I'm feeling a bit over the top today.
| 176 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:18:53am |
re: #142 Rancher
I wonder how this plays to liberal Jews?
That's a big umbrella. Some are infuriated, and busily sending out letters from the ADL and Wiesenthal websites, demanding that Oliphant apologize.
Some are disturbed by the image, but are convincing themselves that it's out of concern for the Palestinians, not hate for Jews, and they should be OK with it.
Some are thrilled, because now they can show how anti-Zionist they are by taping the cartoon outside their office door.
I like to think the first group is still the biggest.
| 178 |
LGoPs Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:19:04am |
re: #173 NukeAtomrod
I have to admit I don't understand anti-Semites at all. I can't imagine what the problem is. It's just totally irrational.
All I can say is: When they come for you this time, I'm going to be standing beside you. We might as well fight the fascist-commie bastards together, rather then let them divide us and destroy us bit by bit.
Charles, I hope I'm not crossing the line. I don't advocate violence. I am willing to defend against those who would do violence to us.
We'll fight the bastards shoulder to shoulder.
| 179 |
Nevergiveup Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:19:47am |
re: #175 Gang of One
So many liberal Jews I know talk about how they stand behind Israel -- but only when it appeases the Islamists that wish to annihilate it. I'm feeling a bit over the top today.
No, I know how you feel and understand. I often feel like putting my fist through .......
| 180 |
yma o hyd Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:20:10am |
re: #149 Opinionated
You are right.
A cartoon like that - and the silence of the cultural and academic elite to speak out against it, never mind its being printed in the first place, are like the tells on a sail - they show that the wind has turned.
I hope that the Holocaust survivours, few of them as they are, can still report about the change in Germany which led to their martyrdom. I hope young people may learn from that - and I hope that there is still enough time to turn this menace away.
| 181 |
DisturbedEma Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:20:10am |
re: #38 Honorary Yooper
At first glance, I could've sworn this came from a mid-1930s German newspaper. I guess Jew hate is chic with the left again.
STILL, not again. . .
| 182 |
vagabond trader Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:20:24am |
re: #153 ModernDayPrayer
It is a daily occurence in the Middle East and probably elsewhere.
[Link: images.google.com...]
| 183 |
Athos Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:20:33am |
re: #174 vagabond trader
I would like the outrage to first be voiced by prominent leftist Jews.Academics, politicians, business leaders,entertainers, journalists. Where are they on this?
/crickets
They will excuse it - say that it is not against Jews, but the 'evil racist' Israeli government which is persecuting and abusing the 'innocent' in Gaza who can do nothing but fire dozens of rockets into Israel on a daily basis.
The saddest part, is that they will have a straight face when talking that rubbish.....living in their naive hope that the alligator will eat them last.
| 184 |
jcm Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:20:42am |
Mr. Opliphant should be unemployed by Monday.
That is something I would have expected in Germany in 1939. It is utterly unacceptable in the United States in 2009.
| 185 |
fish Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:20:53am |
Even with as outrageous and offensive as this is, I would like to point out that Pat Oliphant, and The Publishers and Editors of both papers can walk around knowing that they will NOT be Beheaded over this. That no riots will begin and that it will be largely forgotten in a short amount of time. (now if it had been Mohammad with a suicide vest on...)
| 186 |
NukeAtomrod Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:20:58am |
re: #152 unrealizedviewpoint
What does this mean? I don't get it.
We were discussing this in the previous thread. It's a reference to Stephen King's story about a Indian Burial Ground that can reanimate the dead.
| 187 |
Mad Al-Jaffee Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:21:01am |
re: #173 NukeAtomrod
One of the reasons I chose to learn Krav Maga over other self-defense methods is it was created by a Jewish guy in response to attacks by anti-semitic gangs in Europe. If that shit starts again here in the US, I'm not going down without a fight!
| 188 |
kansas Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:21:14am |
Seems to me Pat Oliphant was a big Bush basher. I think the guy is nuts.
| 189 |
Dustyvet Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:21:15am |
If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.
Adolf Hitler
The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.
Adolf Hitler
| 191 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:21:20am |
You know, LGF is not unified in everything, and that is good. I think we have one issue where we are unified, however, and the only question we might have disagreements on is the best way to fight it.
| 192 |
hous bin pharteen Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:21:22am |
The next thing is doing away with the right to own guns. I have seen on the Communist News Nutcases a report about the Mexican drug gangs buying AK-47's and M-16 in the US and taking them to Mexico to arm the gangs to kill the police. They act like private US citizens are buying the guns and selling them to Mexican gangs.
| 193 |
varmint Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:21:26am |
re: #8 buzzsawmonkey
no, it isn't.
it is somewhat more successful as to clarity. the post's monkey cartoon could be misinterpreted by someone who really wanted to misinterpret it. this is pretty clear hate.
| 194 |
vagabond trader Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:22:12am |
re: #177 buzzsawmonkey
Many more are willfully ignorant.
| 195 |
pink freud Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:22:24am |
re: #172 CyanSnowHawk
OT:
Looks like someone with an (R) next to their name is not too thrilled with this Global Currency idea.
Bachman better hang on. Her face (along with Bayh's) is the new one on the bullseye.
Sidenote: "If Bayh is to be believed and his new group of moderates “literally have no agenda,” then what exactly are they doing? As MSNBC’s Rachel Maddow explained last night, it appears that Bayh and his colleagues have found at least one niche to fill by helping Republicans obstruct the President’s agenda and deny voters the policies they endorsed last November:
Anyone voting against a Democratic agenda voted Republican. Those votes produced a very small Republican minority in Congress. A small minority that now has way more power than they otherwise would because of conservative Democrats deciding to give Republicans as much power as they can."
| 196 |
paradox42 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:22:30am |
re: #142 Rancher
I wonder how this plays to liberal Jews?
Speaking as a liberal Jew, badly. Very, very, badly.
I'm as socially and economically liberal as they come.
But when it comes to defending Israel and fighting terrorists, I'm not a hawk, I'm a starving wolverine.
| 197 |
Earick Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:22:41am |
"Everybody's got to have somebody to look down on
Someone they can feel better than at anytime they please
Someone doing something, decent folks can frown on
If you can't find nobody else than help yourself to me"
Don't much care for Kristofferson's politics but he did write some good songs!
| 198 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:22:59am |
re: #170 Neoconundrum
CAMERA already on it...
[Link: www.camera.org...]
(re the question in my #34)
Thanks for that. I always knew Oliphant marched to his own drummer (the most polite way I can possibly phrase my prior opinion of him), but I didn't know how far off the cliff he'd gone over the past 25 years.
| 199 |
MandyManners Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:23:48am |
re: #184 jcm
Mr. Opliphant should be unemployed by Monday.
That is something I would have expected in Germany in 1939. It is utterly unacceptable in the United States in 2009.
Do syndicated cartoonists operate under contract?
| 200 |
unrealizedviewpoint Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:24:04am |
re: #186 NukeAtomrod
We were discussing this in the previous thread. It's a reference to Stephen King's story about a Indian Burial Ground that can reanimate the dead.
ahh. I'm glad I asked. For those not privy - bewilderment.
| 201 |
Ben Hur Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:24:47am |
re: #149 Opinionated
For us Jews, it's becoming more certain each day that what seemed like the paranoid fears of the Holocaust generation might be coming true- it can happen anywhere.
Anti Semitism is becoming respectable. The Olypant cartoon is not just hateful, it is a clear and present danger.
If the Star of David is the symbol of shark like unfeeling killers, who target innocents and children- these unfeeling killers must be put down.
You will find a Star of David on every Synagogue.
THE CARTOON IS A CALL TO HARM JEWS.
I fear we- Jews- may soon experience the shock that some of our parents recognized in the 30's and 40's when anti Semites who have hidden their hate for social expediency begin to be comfortable expressing their true feelings. Others may just join the mob.
Oliphant came out of the anti Semitic bunker today. Who will come next?
And as telling- who will stand up and object?
About the cartoon -from prominent sources -there is just silence.
This Jew is ready.
| 202 |
AMER1CAN Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:24:54am |
I'd like to see a facebook group started against this cartoon. Get the young people involved in a groundswell of dissaprovement over this cartoon.
| 203 |
tfc3rid Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:24:59am |
I posted this on the previous thread... Regarding John gibson...
He's had some lefties calling today and telling him to tone it down on Obama and Soros and Gibson basically screaming that we all told you the connections and that they share a mindset and now we are seeing it... He also called Ron Paul a geek and had some folks call and support Paul and Alex Jones and Gibson asked them if they are still wearing their tinfoil hat and that it was disgrace for Napolitano to have them on...
| 204 |
KenJen Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:25:09am |
I wish a reporter would ask Obama his opinion on this. Not gonna happen I know.
| 205 |
vagabond trader Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:25:11am |
re: #183 Athos
That was the mindset of many Jews in 1930s Europe.
| 206 |
joncelli Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:25:12am |
re: #195 pink freud
This gives me hope. I think that Republicans can bring two, maybe three senators and a clutch of representatives across the aisle because of just such rhetoric from the left. The GOP is the natural home of center-right politics, and maybe some of the Blue Dogs will see that.
| 207 |
FloridaAnole Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:25:28am |
re: #161 LGoPs
You get Pravda and Izvestia. Which, in my opinion, is what he have already to a large degree with the MFM.
Today's Pravda and Izvestia are often more impartial than our MSM
| 208 |
DaddyG Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:25:32am |
What we need are more people who realize that the Jews should be respected for being Jews. That many of our traditions (Christian or other) have their foundation in the Abrahamic covenant and owe their history and roots to Isaac and Jacob.
Even if we differ on fundamental issues we as a free society must respect their right to exist as a people who may worship as their conscience dictates.
(IMO respect for Israel does not include those who support Israel in order to bring about Armageddon).
| 209 |
Spider Mensch Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:25:36am |
oliphant is a coward, let him do a prophet mo cartoon tomorrow, sort of a mirror to the anti semetic garbage he draws...he hasn't the guts. the islam fanatics would slap a fatwa on his old gray ass so fast he'd be in hiding in the blink of an eye. and the slimes wouldn't have the nerve to print it either. also a bunch of hypocrites.
| 210 |
davinvalkri Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:25:38am |
...And this guy is supposed to be one of the most widely syndicated cartoonists in America? This is pathetic. Ridiculous!
| 211 |
jimc Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:25:54am |
Israel could be nuked and these idiots would still somehow blame Israel for the hardships caused to the Palestinians by the nuclear fallout...."If only you would have just ceased to exist on your own and not had to be nuked, then the poor Palestinian children would not have had to endure this callous disregard!"
| 212 |
ArchangelMichael Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:25:59am |
re: #184 jcm
Mr. Opliphant should be unemployed by Monday.
That is something I would have expected in Germany in 1939. It is utterly unacceptable in the United States in 2009.
In a rational world he would be trying to get an unemployment check next week and the 3-4 hard working friends I have that are currently victims of the recession would be working.
In the crazy screwed up world we are actually in, I wouldn't be surprised if this gets him a raise, dinner at the Kremli... I mean White House, and series of interviews on MSM paleonews, Jon Stewart, and Bill Maher (apparently the Twin Archons of the American Self Hating Jew).
| 213 |
tfc3rid Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:26:01am |
re: #199 MandyManners
Do syndicated cartoonists operate under contract?
I wonder if Al Sharpton is going to lead a march against this? Didn't think so...
| 214 |
WindHorse Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:26:05am |
I thought it had become politically incorrect to besmirch religion?
(what? not for everyone? oh..... I see.... silly me!)
| 215 |
Lincolntf Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:26:26am |
The NYT wants Israel to fail.
(Still trying to figure out the "fail" meme...)
| 216 |
Athos Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:26:32am |
re: #205 vagabond trader
It is as if we are reliving the 1930's again.....and making the same mistakes all over again.
| 218 |
filetandrelease Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:26:44am |
re: #149 Opinionated
I hope you are wrong and believe in this country, the U.S., there are significantly more supporters of Jews than anti semites. In my circle that is the case. It is one thing for a failing dying news paper to throw this trash out here for consumption, but another for things to get violent.
If it gets that bad in the U.S. where violence against a Jew, or any one for that matter, goes with little consequence, than the world will really be in trouble.
| 219 |
Honorary Yooper Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:27:16am |
re: #213 tfc3rid
I wonder if Al Sharpton is going to lead a march against this? Didn't think so...
Oh hell no. Wasn't Sharpton involved somehow in those riots in New York a decade or so ago?
| 220 |
vagabond trader Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:27:20am |
re: #216 Athos
Not here. Unlike Europa, we have the 2nd amendmant.
| 221 |
Right mind left Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:27:26am |
I've been following the discussion of the Serve America Act that is being pushed through the senate today. There is an amendment proposed against Acorn getting funding (seems like an obvious complaint) and the response is below it...shows more of the "nothing to see here" mentality. This is infuriating to me, but I think we need to be well aware of what is happening to the laws being produced hereto forward...
[Link: republican.senate.gov...]
Senator Vitter: (11:46 AM)
· Propounded a UC that Vitter Amendment # 705 to the Mikulski Substitute Amendment be considered (without objection).
· Spoke in favor of Vitter Amendment # 705 to the Mikulski Substitute Amendment.
o SUMMARY "So what does my amendment do? My amendment simply states that no money in this program can go to ACORN or any of its affiliate organizations in any way. Now, Madam President, as I say, on the face of it, that seems like a very specific, very focused amendment, and it is. We're talking about one organization that has done an enormous amount of suspect political activity in the past that many people in this chamber, more importantly, many people around the country, have deep reservations about. But, Madam President, the amendment also goes to the heart of this debate. And the heart of this debate is whether this new federal bureaucracy would, in effect, politicize charitable activity around the country which we certainly do not want."
RESPONSE:
Senator Mikulski: (12:00 PM)
· Spoke against Vitter Amendment #705 to the Mikulski Substitute Amendment.
o SUMMARY "When we look at the amendment by the gentleman from Louisiana, it is punitive towards other organizations that might be in the same building as ACORN, and it might be even a totally different one. It could be health care for the homeless. It could be a hotline for battered women and violence against women. They would be prohibited from getting AmeriCorps volunteers simply because they're in that building."
o SUMMARY "The other is it singles out ACORN, and ACORN hasn't received any AmeriCorps funds in a decade. And if ACORN should ever get federal funds, they would be prohibited from doing any of the activities that would give the other side of the aisle pause or concern. We would have that same pause or concern. One, engaging in legislative advocacy, and the other would be absolutely a red light if anyone applying for AmeriCorps volunteers had been convicted of a federal crime."
· Propounded a UC that at 2:30 PM, the Senate resume consideration of amendment #721; that upon disposition of that amendment, the Senate resume consideration of amendment #716; that upon the disposition of that amendment, the Senate resume consideration of amendment #705; that prior to a vote in relation to each amendment, there be two minutes of debate divided and controlled between the two leaders or their designees in the usual form and that no amendments being in order to any amendments in this agreement prior to a vote in relation to it. After the first vote in the sequence, the remaining votes be limited to 10 minutes each (without objection).
| 222 |
Dustyvet Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:27:35am |
Calling him a 'true hero', mourners hold vigil for suspected Oakland cop killer Lovelle Mixon
[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]
| 223 |
yma o hyd Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:27:45am |
re: #174 vagabond trader
I would like the outrage to first be voiced by prominent leftist Jews.Academics, politicians, business leaders,entertainers, journalists. Where are they on this?
Good question!
They'll be brushed off with the answer that its only a cartoon, and why can't they take a joke ...
Compare and contrast with the reaction to that gorilla cartoon earlier this year ...
| 224 |
doppelganglander Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:28:06am |
My daughter is visiting Eastern Europe on her spring break this week. The other day she was in Prague and visited the Jewish Museum. I've taught her to be pro-Israel (and in fact, my natural father was Jewish), so she was anxious to see the museum. It covers the entire history of Jews in the region, from the Middle Ages to the Holocaust and beyond. She was overwhelmed by the whole experience. She just could not believe the insanely evil things that were done at various times in history. The main impressions she got out of it, she said, where an appreciation of the courage of the Jews, their love of learning, and how they always found a way to survive and thrive despite the restrictions placed on them. And the ultimate irony is, all those restrictions and prohibitions that prevented them from assimilating are what helped them survive as a people for thousands of years.
| 226 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:28:15am |
re: #196 paradox42
Speaking as a liberal Jew, badly. Very, very, badly.
I'm as socially and economically liberal as they come.
But when it comes to defending Israel and fighting terrorists, I'm not a hawk, I'm a starving wolverine.
Bruder! (Shvester?) Go starving wolverines, go!
| 227 |
tfc3rid Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:28:20am |
re: #219 Honorary Yooper
Oh hell no. Wasn't Sharpton involved somehow in those riots in New York a decade or so ago?
He's always invovled in riots... I was referrinf to his recent protesting the NY Post over the monkey cartoon that ran there....
| 228 |
kansas Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:29:00am |
What type of actions would it take to get something like this stopped. Rational discussion? Reason? Appeal to humanity? What gets the Mo cartoons stopped? What made Salmon Rushie hide for years?
| 229 |
G.W. Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:29:00am |
I am not worried about the Jewish people. I am worried about the safety of my loved ones and myself, but not about the Jewish Nation. We just celebrated Purim, and in two weeks we will celebrate Passover. The third time, a maniacal evil man tried to destroy the entire Jewish people is of course more recent: the Holocaust. None of these worked out really well for the perpetrators.
Einstein once described madness as repeatedly trying the same thing and expecting different results. By this measure, it is indeed a mad mad world!
| 230 |
Honorary Yooper Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:29:10am |
re: #227 tfc3rid
He's always invovled in riots... I was referrinf to his recent protesting the NY Post over the monkey cartoon that ran there....
I was thinking those riots between Jews and Blacks in New York. I remember them on the news. IIRC, it started when a kid got hit by a car.
| 231 |
Athos Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:29:18am |
re: #219 Honorary Yooper
Oh hell no. Wasn't Sharpton involved somehow in those riots in New York a decade or so ago?
| 233 |
paradox42 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:29:38am |
re: #220 vagabond trader
Not here. Unlike Europa, we have the 2nd amendmant.
Maybe some good will come from this horrible "cartoon" in that liberal Jews will start showing in interest in gun ownership and tell the gun control crowd to GTFO.
| 234 |
DaddyG Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:29:40am |
re: #218 filetandrelease
I hope you are wrong and believe in this country, the U.S., there are significantly more supporters of Jews than anti semites. In my circle that is the case. It is one thing for a failing dying news paper to throw this trash out here for consumption, but another for things to get violent.
If it gets that bad in the U.S. where violence against a Jew, or any one for that matter, goes with little consequence, than the world will really be in trouble.
I hope you are correct. In my family and the circles I travel the Jewish religion, people and culture are all respected. I have been shocked at the garbage I've seen in our country the last couple of years that I thought would never be seen outside of a history museum exhibit on the holocaust or the civil rights movement, yet the same old stuff keeps surfacing. I can hardly believe my eyes at times.
| 236 |
doppelganglander Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:29:50am |
re: #222 Dustyvet
Calling him a 'true hero', mourners hold vigil for suspected Oakland cop killer Lovelle Mixon
[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]
[self-deleted]
| 237 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:29:56am |
re: #202 AMER1CAN
I'd like to see a facebook group started against this cartoon. Get the young people involved in a groundswell of dissaprovement over this cartoon.
How does that work? Can you really have a facebook group against one cartoon? What would its goals be? I don't think we can have Pat Oliphant drawn and quartered.
/seriously, don't know enough about facebook to know
| 238 |
Opinionated Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:30:06am |
re: #174 vagabond trader
I would like the outrage to first be voiced by prominent leftist Jews.Academics, politicians, business leaders,entertainers, journalists. Where are they on this?
It was published yesterday. I didn't know about it until I saw a report in the Israeli papers.
If you Google the story, it has appeared only in minor news sources- and only in the reportage of the comment from the ADL.
The vileness and defamation of Jews everywhere- the Star Of David is the recognized symbol of Judaism not just of Israel- seems not to bother too many.
It was published in the Washington Post- to silence in official Washington.
| 239 |
vagabond trader Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:30:18am |
re: #224 doppelganglander
When someone asks me how a Jew could still believe in G-D, I always reply, "We're still here, aren't we?"
| 240 |
unrealizedviewpoint Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:30:18am |
There should be a price these publications need pay for printing this crap and the like...
oh wait.. there is. They're paying it. It'll be paid off when they're gone.
/dreaming
| 241 |
LindaMarie Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:30:23am |
re: #180 yma o hyd
You are right.
A cartoon like that - and the silence of the cultural and academic elite to speak out against it, never mind its being printed in the first place, are like the tells on a sail - they show that the wind has turned.I hope that the Holocaust survivours, few of them as they are, can still report about the change in Germany which led to their
martyrdom.I hope young people may learn from that - and I hope that there is still enough time to turn this menace away.
Please don't use that word. Murdered is better. The innocent murdered by Islam extremists are " martyred ".
Thanks ---
| 242 |
alegrias Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:30:25am |
Remember the valiant young woman woman who sued the NYT for defamation recently when they accused her & John McCain of having an affair?
Hit the NYT and WashPost in their pockets. Their reputations are already in the toilet.
| 243 |
tfc3rid Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:30:25am |
re: #230 Honorary Yooper
I was thinking those riots between Jews and Blacks in New York. I remember them on the news. IIRC, it started when a kid got hit by a car.
Crown Heights riots... The ones that really threw the City into the pit thanks to Mayor Dinkins...
| 244 |
Eowyn2 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:30:27am |
re: #228 kansas
What type of actions would it take to get something like this stopped. Rational discussion? Reason? Appeal to humanity? What gets the Mo cartoons stopped? What made Salmon Rushie hide for years?
Just a bunch of harmless jihadis
| 245 |
Honorary Yooper Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:30:34am |
| 246 |
Kragar Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:30:40am |
re: #215 Lincolntf
The NYT wants Israel to fail.
(Still trying to figure out the "fail" meme...)
Not exactly news
| 247 |
LGoPs Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:31:26am |
re: #209 Spider Mensch
oliphant is a coward, let him do a prophet mo cartoon tomorrow, sort of a mirror to the anti semetic garbage he draws...he hasn't the guts. the islam fanatics would slap a fatwa on his old gray ass so fast he'd be in hiding in the blink of an eye. and the slimes wouldn't have the nerve to print it either. also a bunch of hypocrites.
These bastard retreads from the '60's who grew up with the mantra of 'speaking truth to power' are the same gutless cowards who wouldn't serve during Viet Nam. Uncanny how the only 'truth' they speak is against targets that they know will not retaliate against them.
Gutless in the '60's. Gutless today.
Fuck them.
| 249 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:31:58am |
Young people need to be taught the history of the Jews in order to understand why there needs to be an Israel.
They need to know about Spain. They need to know about Poland. They need to understand where "beyond the pale," comes from. The list goes on, and I think most current college graduates, let alone high school graduates, would know only a fraction of it.
| 251 |
gmsc Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:32:03am |
re: #14 LGoPs
To all who think that it can't happen ever again.....think again and be on guard. It is happening in front of our eyes.
World War II was completely different. There was not only anti-semitic hate, but there was a popular leader of a nation who used socialist policies to gain favor with the people and . . .
. . . uh, oh.
| 252 |
essayons7 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:32:26am |
re: #149 Opinionated
Not to worry - here's one gentile who's got your back. You can depend on it.
| 253 |
Opinionated Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:32:51am |
re: #230 Honorary Yooper
I was thinking those riots between Jews and Blacks in New York.
It wasn't riots between Jews and Blacks.
The Jews weren't rioting- or murdering anyone.
| 254 |
dhg4 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:33:02am |
re: #229 G.W.
I am not worried about the Jewish people. I am worried about the safety of my loved ones and myself, but not about the Jewish Nation. We just celebrated Purim, and in two weeks we will celebrate Passover. The third time, a maniacal evil man tried to destroy the entire Jewish people is of course more recent: the Holocaust. None of these worked out really well for the perpetrators.
Einstein once described madness as repeatedly trying the same thing and expecting different results. By this measure, it is indeed a mad mad world!
I think it's more than just three times, but the point's well taken and appropriate, as you note, this time of year.
| 255 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:33:12am |
re: #214 WindHorse
I thought it had become politically incorrect to besmirch religion?
(what? not for everyone? oh..... I see.... silly me!)
As my mother says when I get irate about stuff like this, "You know they don't mean you."
| 256 |
pre-Boomer Marine brat Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:33:18am |
re: #222 Dustyvet
Calling him a 'true hero', mourners hold vigil for suspected Oakland cop killer Lovelle Mixon
[Link: www.nydailynews.com...]
Will.bite.my.tongue.regarding.those.demonstrators.and.Mixon's.relatives.
Will.bite.my.tongue
Bite.my.tongue
| 257 |
albusteve Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:33:21am |
I log on and see this and I am simply stunned...I thought it was some sort of joke...very depressing and shameful
| 258 |
kansas Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:33:32am |
re: #253 Opinionated
It wasn't riots between Jews and Blacks.
The Jews weren't rioting- or murdering anyone.
Now there's an inconvenient truth.
| 259 |
Malleus Dei Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:33:46am |
This is racism, plain and simple, and it's a disgrace.
Everyone involved should apologize. Immediately. And the people involved need to be fired.
And, no, I'm not Jewish. I'm German. And I know right where this sort of thing leads and we must stop it now and to do that we cannot let this stand.
| 260 |
doppelganglander Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:33:50am |
re: #239 vagabond trader
When someone asks me how a Jew could still believe in G-D, I always reply, "We're still here, aren't we?"
That's similar to what I say. I tell people the continued existence of the Jewish people is proof they're God's chosen people. I can't think of a better explanation.
| 261 |
vagabond trader Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:34:13am |
re: #233 paradox42
lol, The librals I know would piss themselves if they even held a loaded weapon.
| 262 |
Earick Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:34:13am |
re: #218 filetandrelease
My mother was born and raised in Germany. As a girl, she sat on her swing and watched as the jews were rounded up.
My father, an MP, was at that same time rounding up American Japs.
Though the difference in treatment of the two groups is monumental, it must be stated... WE ALREADY DID IT ONCE!
| 263 |
kuchuklambat Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:34:25am |
re: #46 Dustyvet
Because it addresses motivations for staying silent, I like what Charlie Mingus had to say (in a documentary film about him) when talking about a Shoah survivor lady pianist he knew:
When they come for someone a few blocks from you, you think "maybe he was guilty, of something bad", when they come for those on , "maybe they are guilty too"
And when they come for you, by that time you are guilty. Guilty of doing nothing and staying silent.
| 264 |
Nevergiveup Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:34:29am |
re: #229 G.W.
I am not worried about the Jewish people. I am worried about the safety of my loved ones and myself, but not about the Jewish Nation. We just celebrated Purim, and in two weeks we will celebrate Passover. The third time, a maniacal evil man tried to destroy the entire Jewish people is of course more recent: the Holocaust. None of these worked out really well for the perpetrators.
Einstein once described madness as repeatedly trying the same thing and expecting different results. By this measure, it is indeed a mad mad world!
maybe maybe, but some of those madman took a terrible toll.
| 265 |
Dustyvet Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:34:55am |
re: #245 Honorary Yooper
That's what I thought I remembed. The Crown Heights Riot.
The Crown Heights Riot was a three-day riot that occurred in August 1991 in the Crown Heights neighborhood in the New York City borough of Brooklyn. The community was home to approximately 180,000 people – consisting of Caribbean-Americans and West Indians (50%), African Americans (39%), and Jewish residents (11%). The riots began on August 19, 1991 after a Guyanese boy was accidentally struck by an automobile in the motorcade of a prominent Hasidic rabbi. The boy subsequently died of his injuries. One historian described the subsequent riot as "the most serious anti-Semitic incident in American history".[1] The riot was also viewed as a pogrom by some members of the Jewish community.[2]
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]
| 266 |
Malleus Dei Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:35:21am |
"Not to worry - here's one gentile who's got your back. You can depend on it."
Here's two. Anybody going after the Jews again has to go through me.
| 267 |
doppelganglander Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:35:32am |
re: #249 EmmmieG
Young people need to be taught the history of the Jews in order to understand why there needs to be an Israel.
They need to know about Spain. They need to know about Poland. They need to understand where "beyond the pale," comes from. The list goes on, and I think most current college graduates, let alone high school graduates, would know only a fraction of it.
This is a good chance to ask you (and anyone else who cares to respond) if you're familiar with Paul Johnson's "A History of the Jews" and what you think of it. I have not gotten past the first few chapters but I do want to read it, since I've loved everything else of his that I've read.
| 268 |
DaddyG Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:35:55am |
re: #241 LindaMarie
Please don't use that word. Murdered is better. The innocent murdered by Islam extremists are " martyred ".
Thanks ---
It is a shame that genocide/suicide cults have co opted that word. It should mean someone who dies for a noble cause. In that sense the Jews who would not renounce their faith and died for it were martyrs. But I understand why that word seems inappropriate after its tainted use by those who seek glory by killing others.
A sad commentary on our times.
| 269 |
LGoPs Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:36:05am |
re: #266 Malleus Dei
"Not to worry - here's one gentile who's got your back. You can depend on it."
Here's two. Anybody going after the Jews again has to go through me.
Add me to the roster.....
| 270 |
albusteve Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:36:10am |
re: #261 vagabond trader
lol, The librals I know would piss themselves if they even held a loaded weapon.
my ex hates all guns...I just tell her well don't pull the trigger, or if you do don't point it yourself....she seems to think there is more to it
| 271 |
snowcrash Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:36:51am |
Sadly some posters at HotAir do not see this cartoon as anti-Semitic.
| 272 |
paradox42 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:37:05am |
re: #261 vagabond trader
lol, The librals I know would piss themselves if they even held a loaded weapon.
I'm still in school and living in a student housing complex so I can't have firearms, legally anyway, and since I'm not a criminal it doesn't look like I'll be arming myself for a bit.
BTW, what's a good "first gun"?
| 274 |
alegrias Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:37:25am |
Bankrupt these two publications. Don't buy their Newsweek or other properties. Don't go to their websites.
Tell your friends and relatives you've stopped reading them and now read....Wall Street Journal, Washington TIMES, The Weekly Standard or ANY OTHER decent publications.
Bankrupt these cowards.
| 275 |
albusteve Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:37:55am |
| 276 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:38:04am |
re: #230 Honorary Yooper
I was thinking those riots between Jews and Blacks in New York. I remember them on the news. IIRC, it started when a kid got hit by a car.
[Link: www.nationalcenter.org...]
In 1995, the building's owners decided to raise the rents on the business tenants. It's not an uncommon thing to do - many landlords have and continue to do this across Manhattan and across the country. But, because they couldn't afford the rent increase, several businesses, including some black-owned ones, were forced to move. The man who would be king, the Reverend Al Sharpton, decided to protest this - not by deriding the church elders, the landlords of the building, but by loudly denouncing the Jewish owners of Freddy's Fashion Mart.
He insisted that Freddy's owners were bloodsuckers and white interlopers who were forcing the other tenants out of the building to further their own "racist" agenda.
| 277 |
the1sgjohns Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:38:14am |
re: #270 albusteve
Well, I guess she couldn't reload for you either so your better off then.
| 278 |
Spare O'Lake Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:38:32am |
As a child of holocaust survivors I never thought I would see the day when such Nazi anti-Semitic propoganda would enjoy such fullsome display in the New York Times and the Washington Post.
This is a sad day for Jews around the world and a black mark on America's image.
If any good can come out of such a display, it will be to serve as a wake-up call to the MSM-enamoured Jewbots and other assorted Moonbats.
| 279 |
albusteve Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:38:48am |
re: #272 paradox42
I'm still in school and living in a student housing complex so I can't have firearms, legally anyway, and since I'm not a criminal it doesn't look like I'll be arming myself for a bit.
BTW, what's a good "first gun"?
12ga shotgun for home D...
| 280 |
filetandrelease Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:38:56am |
re: #262 Earick
My mother was born and raised in Germany. As a girl, she sat on her swing and watched as the jews were rounded up.
My father, an MP, was at that same time rounding up American Japs.Though the difference in treatment of the two groups is monumental, it must be stated... WE ALREADY DID IT ONCE!
Ummm, I am not accepting the premise that what we did in WWII regarding the Japanese is the same as what happened to the Jews during the same period.
| 281 |
Izzy Dunne Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:38:58am |
It won't be long now before the Jews start rioting and burning cars and bombing buiildings and marching and screaming and carrying signs and..
Oh, wait. They don't do things like that.
| 282 |
LGoPs Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:39:01am |
re: #274 alegrias
Bankrupt these two publications. Don't buy their Newsweek or other properties. Don't go to their websites.
Tell your friends and relatives you've stopped reading them and now read....Wall Street Journal, Washington TIMES, The Weekly Standard or ANY OTHER decent publications.
Bankrupt these cowards.
I've been trying for over 15 years now....
| 283 |
unrealizedviewpoint Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:39:43am |
re: #266 Malleus Dei
"Not to worry - here's one gentile who's got your back. You can depend on it."
Here's two. Anybody going after the Jews again has to go through me.
You hear that you racists sons-a-bitches. It's a different more tolerant of one another world today. We'll all rise-up and fight you.
| 284 |
yma o hyd Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:39:51am |
re: #238 Opinionated
It was published yesterday. I didn't know about it until I saw a report in the Israeli papers.
If you Google the story, it has appeared only in minor news sources- and only in the reportage of the comment from the ADL.
The vileness and defamation of Jews everywhere- the Star Of David is the recognized symbol of Judaism not just of Israel- seems not to bother too many.
It was published in the Washington Post- to silence in official Washington.
It is shocking that something vile like this has elicited no reaction at all.
Even if people were indifferent to Judaism generally - the Star of David is indeed the symbol of a state recognised by the UN (for how long - thats another question, alas!).
So why are people who aren't that bothered about Judaism, at least upset about the disrespect shown to an Ally of the United States?
Or are the times already such that nothing actually matters, respect, disrespect, religion - who cares? Provided its not the ROPMA - because, we know - they would not be silent about something like that cartoon ...
I cant begin to describe how sickened and saddened I am about seeing such a vile cartoon in the NYT.
| 285 |
6PointsOut Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:39:52am |
Thank G-d my grandparents (may their memories be for a blessing always) did not live to see this again.
I am speechless, but well-armed.
| 286 |
albusteve Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:40:09am |
re: #277 the1sgjohns
Well, I guess she couldn't reload for you either so your better off then.
she's a good woman and will fight like a tiger when she has to
| 287 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:40:13am |
re: #230 Honorary Yooper
I was thinking those riots between Jews and Blacks in New York. I remember them on the news. IIRC, it started when a kid got hit by a car.
OR ,, maybe you were thinking of the other incident
Likewise, Sharpton would also have you forget his 1991 involvement in the tragedy in the Crown Heights section of Brooklyn. A car driven by a Hassidic Jew accidentally struck and killed a seven-year-old black boy. Sharpton injected himself into the situation, falsely claiming in both the local and national media that a Jewish-owned ambulance refused to take the child for treatment
| 288 |
vagabond trader Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:40:21am |
| 289 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:40:28am |
re: #267 doppelganglander
This is a good chance to ask you (and anyone else who cares to respond) if you're familiar with Paul Johnson's "A History of the Jews" and what you think of it. I have not gotten past the first few chapters but I do want to read it, since I've loved everything else of his that I've read.
No, I haven't, but I'll check it out. I attended a fairly conservative school, so when I took a history of Spain, I got the truth without any defense of what had happened to the Jews. Same for the other countries. I did read Chaim Potok's history, just because I've always like him as a writer.
| 291 |
Honorary Yooper Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:41:27am |
re: #276 sattv4u2
I'd forgotten (due to distance mostly) what an anti-semitic scumbag Al Sharpton is.
| 292 |
yma o hyd Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:41:31am |
re: #241 LindaMarie
You are absolutely right - and I apologise.
I just didn't think thoroughly enough.
Won't make that mistake again, ever!
Thanks.
| 293 |
_RememberTonyC Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:41:38am |
at these rotten newsrags, the financial bankrupcy that is following their moral bankrupcy is quite appropriate.
| 294 |
paradox42 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:41:58am |
re: #279 albusteve
12ga shotgun for home D...
What brands are good?
Growing up in a liberal household has left me woefully ignorant about guns.
I only know the basics:
1) Don't point the gun at anything you don't want dead.
2) Assume the gun is ready to fire at all times.
| 295 |
devil in baggy pants Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:42:05am |
re: #202 AMER1CAN
I'd like to see a facebook group started against this cartoon. Get the young people involved in a groundswell of dissaprovement over this cartoon.
done and done
| 296 |
essayons7 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:42:17am |
re: #272 paradox42
Stick with something small caliber - .22 or .223. Don't go for the heavy artillery with your first gun.
Make sure you take a safety class if one is offered nearby. Can't stress that enough.
Oh, and buy lots of ammo - looks like there's a shortage for the forseeable future.
| 297 |
albusteve Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:42:23am |
re: #291 Honorary Yooper
I'd forgotten (due to distance mostly) what an anti-semitic scumbag Al Sharpton is.
he's lucky to be alive...I think he knows this...he is a bad guy imo
| 298 |
the1sgjohns Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:42:30am |
re: #286 albusteve
So then why the "ex"? I may have misunderstood you.
| 299 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:42:33am |
re: #291 Honorary Yooper
I'd forgotten (due to distance mostly) what an anti-semitic scumbag Al Sharpton is.
As a student of Screwy Louise Farahhkan and The Reverend Jesse Jackson, how could he not be?
| 300 |
hous bin pharteen Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:42:59am |
re: #236 doppelganglander
I see allot of anti-police articles on that web page. They are VERY happy about the new Commander and Thief, though.
| 301 |
paradox42 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:43:26am |
re: #296 essayons7
Stick with something small caliber - .22 or .223. Don't go for the heavy artillery with your first gun.
Make sure you take a safety class if one is offered nearby. Can't stress that enough.
Oh, and buy lots of ammo - looks like there's a shortage for the forseeable future.
I can't buy one for a while. I live in student housing and they are a "weapon free zone", better known as a "shooting gallery".
| 302 |
LindaMarie Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:43:36am |
re: #252 essayons7
Not to worry - here's one gentile who's got your back. You can depend on it.
Not one but two.
| 303 |
albusteve Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:44:02am |
re: #294 paradox42
What brands are good?
Growing up in a liberal household has left me woefully ignorant about guns.
I only know the basics:
1) Don't point the gun at anything you don't want dead.
2) Assume the gun is ready to fire at all times.
I have a Stoeger P350...it got a nice writeup in American Rifleman this month...very rugged and darn accurate...330$....very reasonable
| 304 |
Honorary Yooper Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:44:24am |
re: #299 sattv4u2
As a student of Screwy Louise Farahhkan and The Reverend Jesse Jackson, how could he not be?
Very true. I know Jackson is, but then again, this is Jackson's turf here in Chicagoland, and he's typically trying to hog the cameras.
"You're blockin' the cameras."
| 305 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:44:28am |
| 306 |
albusteve Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:44:46am |
re: #298 the1sgjohns
So then why the "ex"? I may have misunderstood you.
just the way things are...we are best buddies to this day
| 307 |
Oh no...Sand People! Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:44:52am |
Expect a WHOLE lot more of this once they are nationalized...
You can count on it.
| 308 |
the1sgjohns Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:45:28am |
re: #294 paradox42
3) keep your finger out of the trigger til your ready to shoot
4) be aware of your back stop.
Any liberal pinko commie well do; for a back stop...just being sarcastic.
| 309 |
jcm Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:45:43am |
re: #199 MandyManners
Do syndicated cartoonists operate under contract?
I've dropped notes to the Washington Post, the New York Times, and Universal Press Syndicate.
| 310 |
Earick Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:45:44am |
re: #294 paradox42
Never assume anything when it comes to guns!
Assume it is loaded and ...Click...click.. Whoops, you're dead!
Assume it is empty and ..Click/bang.. Whoops, your friend is dead!
Take the time to learn about guns before getting one.
| 311 |
JHW Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:45:58am |
Anybody here good at searching LGF's archives? I'm almost certain Oliphant was the topic of an LGF article and posting for a vile cartoon he made concerning US troops as murderers or something as offensive. He truly is a scumbag of the lowest order.
| 312 |
doppelganglander Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:46:00am |
re: #289 EmmmieG
No, I haven't, but I'll check it out. I attended a fairly conservative school, so when I took a history of Spain, I got the truth without any defense of what had happened to the Jews. Same for the other countries. I did read Chaim Potok's history, just because I've always like him as a writer.
Yes, he's terrific. I will move "A History of the Jews" up my "to be read" list and let you know how it is.
| 313 |
essayons7 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:46:14am |
re: #301 paradox42
Well, then when the time comes that you can purchase one there are plenty of resources out there. The salespeople at the sporting goods/gun store can more than answer your questions.
Best of luck!
| 315 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:46:28am |
re: #304 Honorary Yooper
Very true. I know Jackson is, but then again, this is Jackson's turf here in Chicagoland, and he's typically trying to hog the cameras.
"You're blockin' the cameras."
It is my distasteful duty, every Saturday morning between the hours of 11 am and 2 pm to broadcast not one but TWO one hour televison shows featuring the Rev. Jesse Jackson. The 1st is he and others at the pulpit of his church in Chicago, the second a 4-5 person rountable discussion
D I S G U S T I N G
| 316 |
albusteve Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:46:37am |
re: #301 paradox42
I can't buy one for a while. I live in student housing and they are a "weapon free zone", better known as a "shooting gallery".
fuck that...it's make believe....get a shotgun and don't wander around with it...keep it loaded, safetied and within easy reach
| 317 |
MarineMomSue Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:46:47am |
| 318 |
nordink Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:47:14am |
I don't have anything new to say on this -- nothing that hasn't already been said by someone else here. But I just need to add myself to the collective outrage and sadness. The upside-down-edness of the world is very depressing, as is this offensive and stupid cartoon.
| 319 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:47:29am |
re: #280 filetandrelease
Ummm, I am not accepting the premise that what we did in WWII regarding the Japanese is the same as what happened to the Jews during the same period.
Same thing, just a difference in magnitude. Property was confiscated, families separated, and people rounded up without a trial. Only thing missing on the American side was the mass murders.
| 320 |
Aye Pod Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:47:34am |
This cartoon is just a diagram of the cartoonists own unbelievable inanity and bigotry. Translated into words, it says :
Israel is evil and inhuman, and desperately wants to devour poor innocent Gaza, who is just a simple harmless little woman nobly trying to protect her child against this monstrous bully. And look behind Israel - there's a headless Nazi driving the whole thing.
Truly disturbing that a major national newspaper would think this printable.
| 321 |
vagabond trader Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:47:51am |
The first gentile who has my back is my hubby, and he's a righteous one. He's given more than one anti semite who slipped out of the closet in his presence what for over the years. lol.
| 322 |
the1sgjohns Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:48:32am |
re: #311 JHW
Anybody here good at searching LGF's archives? I'm almost certain Oliphant was the topic of an LGF article and posting for a vile cartoon he made concerning US troops as murderers or something as offensive. He truly is a scumbag of the lowest order.
See how long he will last showing a picture of Mohammad with a 9 year old girl bride, the original pedophile.
| 323 |
Oh no...Sand People! Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:49:15am |
100% of KosKids, Huffposters, and at least 98% of Diggers are now getting wet dreams.
*SPIT*
| 324 |
Gella Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:49:23am |
this is insane and disgusting, when will it end?
| 325 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:49:47am |
re: #322 the1sgjohns
See how long he will last showing a picture of Mohammad with a 9 year old girl bride, the original pedophile.
But see ,,, he wouldn't "satarize" that, as he sees that as nothing but Mohammeds religious beliefs in practice
| 326 |
MikeAlv77 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:49:48am |
re: #99 ladycatnip
#72 Ward Cleaver
The only reason Pelosi and Obama want to bail out the press is to have their very own little Pravda churning out propaganda and lies.
But they already do without having to pay them....
| 328 |
MarineMomSue Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:51:05am |
re: #287 sattv4u2
Let us not forget his involvement in the Tawana Brawley non-incident.
| 329 |
JHW Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:51:18am |
re: #322 the1sgjohns
You're right, I'm making a point this piss-poor excuse of a "cartoonist" has a history of being a revolting bastard, but for me when he compared our troops to the SS a couple years ago awoke me to how rabidly hateful and insane he is.
| 330 |
hous bin pharteen Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:51:35am |
re: #278 Spare O'Lake
I know. But you hear about the Nazi's killing Jews, but you don't hear much about the Communist Russians doing it. Or the Arabs supplied by the USSR doing it also.
| 331 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:51:54am |
re: #326 MikeAlv77
But they already do without having to pay them....
But as businesses they're sunk unless bailed out. The newspapers won't take the money TO propagandize for the dems,,, they'll take it so they can CONTINUE TO
| 332 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:52:22am |
Jews have referred to those killed for their faith as martyrs in English since Jews spoke English. I am not willing to give the word up.
re: #241 LindaMarie
Please don't use that word. Murdered is better. The innocent murdered by Islam extremists are " martyred ".
Thanks ---
| 333 |
essayons7 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:52:45am |
re: #321 vagabond trader
Excellent, but that is his job, after all. Me, I'd just do it as a hobby!
:-)
| 334 |
LindaMarie Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:52:48am |
re: #292 yma o hyd
No problem, da nada, kablis nes.
Just struck a nerve.
I hate the " 20 were martyred at a bazaar" news quote.
NO - they were murdered, butchered, deprived of life, etc.
whew - I feel better for writing that and appreciate your indulgence in reading it.
| 335 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:52:55am |
re: #330 hous bin pharteen
I know. But you hear about the Nazi's killing Jews, but you don't hear much about the Communist Russians doing it. Or the Arabs supplied by the USSR doing it also.
Happened during the czars as well. Czarist pogroms were pretty well known in the Russian Jewish communities.
| 336 |
captdiggs Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:53:04am |
It's through the looking glass, where now evil is good, and good is evil.
This cartoon is the sum total of the media jihad against Israel over the last month.
The world now eagerly eats up every false rumor and arab allegation at face value, while simultaneously looking the other way at the daily butchery done in the name of Islam.
| 337 |
sattv4u2 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:53:35am |
re: #328 MarineMomSue
Let us not forget his involvement in the Tawana Brawley non-incident.
AND
The television show HBO's Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel showed a 1983 FBI videotape in which Al Sharpton is seen talking about laundering drug money with former mobster Michael Franzese, a Mafioso-turned-undercover-FBI informant posing as a cocaine dealer. Now you might think something like this might be bad news for a presidential candidate, but to hear Sharpton talk about it, there's nothing unseemly about it.
| 338 |
FloridaAnole Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:54:00am |
re: #287 sattv4u2
OR ,, maybe you were thinking of the other incident
Likewise, Sharpton would also have you forget his 1991 involvement in the tragedy in the Crown Heights section of Brooklyn. A car driven by a Hassidic Jew accidentally struck and killed a seven-year-old black boy. Sharpton injected himself into the situation, falsely claiming in both the local and national media that a Jewish-owned ambulance refused to take the child for treatment
It says something that a flamethrowing demogogue like Sharpton is now accorded primo respectablility and is frequently seen as a guest talking head on MSM political shows, Crown Heights, (&Tawana Brawley, Duke Lacrosse Players etc.) notwithstanding.
| 339 |
jcm Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:55:07am |
re: #294 paradox42
What brands are good?
Growing up in a liberal household has left me woefully ignorant about guns.
I only know the basics:
1) Don't point the gun at anything you don't want dead.
2) Assume the gun is ready to fire at all times.
I've been using firearms since I was 10 years old.
If you aren't accustomed to them.
1) Sign up for a NRA or similar basic safety and handling course at your local range.
2) When you done that pay for some one on one instruction.
3) At that point rent different models at the range and find what caliber, type and makes you are comfortable with.
4) Become familiar with all the local laws pertaining to carrying, self defense etc.
5) Set aside time to regularly practice.
| 340 |
JHW Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:58:37am |
Here's the LGF article from 5 years ago when Oliphant smeared US veterans:
The Oliphant-Rall Convergence
Link to the Captain's Quarters blogspot posting referenced in LGF's posting
| 341 |
MarineMomSue Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:01:36pm |
| 342 |
godfrey Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:01:54pm |
This is a good time to put in a plug for Jamie Glazov's United in Hate: The Left’s Romance With Tyranny and Terror.
| 343 |
frater eosphoros Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:01:55pm |
When did they hire Julius Streicher?
| 345 |
godfrey Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:04:42pm |
It would serve Oliphant right to die penniless and deranged.
| 346 |
Dustyvet Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:05:00pm |
re: #311 JHW
Anybody here good at searching LGF's archives? I'm almost certain Oliphant was the topic of an LGF article and posting for a vile cartoon he made concerning US troops as murderers or something as offensive. He truly is a scumbag of the lowest order.
Hey JHW great to see you...
| 347 |
jcm Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:05:05pm |
re: #345 godfrey
It would serve Oliphant right to die penniless and deranged.
One out of two so far.....
| 348 |
godfrey Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:05:45pm |
re: #347 jcm
What does it take to sh*tcan someone's syndication?
| 349 |
paradox42 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:06:58pm |
re: #345 godfrey
It would serve Oliphant right to die penniless and deranged.
I'd rather see him penniless and rational.
That way he doesn't get to retreat into the comfort of madness and gets to fully experience the reality of his situation.
| 351 |
lurking faith Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:07:38pm |
re: #107 alegrias
* * *
Get a grip, the WashPost and NYT are NOT THE COUNTRY.
They are rapidly shrinking shrieking losers.
But they are important as reflections of what the current power players in this country - the elitist East Coast establishment - really believe.
This matters.
| 352 |
jcm Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:08:18pm |
re: #348 godfrey
What does it take to sh*tcan someone's syndication?
In this day and age? We could find him in bed with a dead prostitute and a live boy and it would be a career enhancer with the MFMSM.
| 353 |
Barking Pumpkin Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:09:03pm |
For some reason I was suddenly reminded of Robert Heinlein's Farnham's Freehold. If you haven't read it perhaps you should.
| 354 |
JHW Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:09:14pm |
re: #346 Dustyvet
Thanks Dusty, same here.. I've been too dogged tired to be here much lately, 130-150 miles one-way to work when I can get it, 30 miles or so of it on back roads, then go to work in the rain or snow, then a long ride back home soaking we., Nothing much different in this recession for a logger as the last 20 years. I'll be glad to hang up those caulk boots for the last time. How ya' doing .....great I hope.
| 355 |
LindaMarie Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:09:43pm |
re: #332 SanFranciscoZionist
Jews have referred to those killed for their faith as martyrs in English since Jews spoke English. I am not willing to give the word up.
I understand your point. People have been martyred for their faith - Joan of Arc, and countless others. No one promised her 72 virgins. Let's not even to there as to the gender question.
Maybe we should "take back" the word and not leave it to Islam and allow them to turn it into a trap.
| 356 |
Tom Taylor Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:09:43pm |
re: #301 paradox42
Than do not buy one now.
But go to a gun range and try some!
I suggest a .22 l.r. for first shootings - than a bigger one.
Than try a automatic - or 2...3 to find out what you prefer. A Glock and a SigSauer in 9mm or .40 caliber?
Give a .38 revolver a shot. Its different but maybe more your thing.
Than a rifle....223 sounds ok - but .308 and 30-06 is nice too.
A M1 Garand is a nice weapon.
For house-defense: a shotgun. Caliber 12, Mossberg...Remington...
Just try it!
| 357 |
Mr. Owl Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:09:52pm |
For some reason i doubt there are going to be huge protests calling for "death to those who insult Judaism."
| 358 |
ellem Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:10:59pm |
my goodness the riots, be-headings and fatwas that will ensue
| 359 |
RaiderDan Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:12:03pm |
The anti-Semitism on the left is becoming so mainstream, its not even shocking any more.
And yet, the average American liberal Jew thinks the threat comes from the paranoid neo-Nazi right, and can't see the blatant hate coming from International ANSWER, the Guardian, the United Nations, Amnesty International, the European Union....
There is no place anymore for a pro-Israel Jew on the left, and increasingly the Democrat party.
| 360 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:12:12pm |
re: #322 the1sgjohns
See how long he will last showing a picture of Mohammad with a 9 year old girl bride, the original pedophile.
Hardly the original.
Look, folks, I keep seeing this here, and there's a couple things I want to point out:
1. Mohammed's other wives, AFAIK, were grown-ups. Khadija was his senior by quite a bit.
2. We're talking about a community (early medieval Arabia) in which I'm pretty sure marriages of very young girls for political reasons were not uncommon.
3. Aisha, who grew up to become a religious leader in her own right, deserves better than to be a nameless figure in a regular crack on Muhammed.
The ick factor is quite real, here, but guys, IT WAS THE SEVENTH CENTURY. Mohammed wasn't a pedophile, he was a man of a very distant and very foreign time and place.
My two cents. Feel free to ignore them.
| 362 |
nyc redneck Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:13:39pm |
that is a wretched cartoon.
poorly conceived. poorly executed.
the headless nazi is ridiculous.
as is the shark fanged star of david.
it is so over wrought and hysterical.
the best political cartoons don't hit you over the head w/ such blatant
angry purpose.
they are more subtle and the power is in what they leave to the viewer's
imagination.
this guy is a hateful fcking idiot.
the cartoon is abt what an asshole he is.
| 364 |
uptight Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:17:08pm |
What do you think, folks - the cartoon looks sort of comfortable in it's natural setting
| 365 |
Wendya Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:17:45pm |
re: #66 Catttt
Are they going to use the excuse that this is about Zionism, not Judaism? Because that ain't going to fly this time.
Yes, that's exactly what they are doing.
| 366 |
Pupdawg Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:18:00pm |
| 367 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:18:24pm |
re: #360 SanFranciscoZionist
Different time and different mores? Hmmm, what is acceptable in one age might, over time, become unacceptable? That's a very accurate assessment of our civilization. Look at Mark Twain's work Tom Sawyer and the language by characters in there is unacceptable today. His work does stand as a classic American novel though. Taking war to civilians like Sherman did in the 1860s is, today considered a war crime.
| 368 |
yochanan Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:18:31pm |
SOME ONE HAVE THE LINK TO THE NEW YORK TIMES WERE IT IS RUNNING?
| 369 |
godfrey Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:18:36pm |
Glazov gets a bit too psychological here, but it's plausible:
In rejecting his own society, the [hard Leftist] believer spurns the values of democracy and individual freedom, which are anathema to him, since he has miserably failed to cope with both the challenges they pose and the possibilities they offer. Tortured by his personal alienation, which is accompanied by feelings of self-loathing, the believer craves a fairy-tale world where no individuality exists, and where human estrangement is thus impossible. The believer fantasizes about how his own individuality and self will be submerged within the collective whole.
Even if you're skeptical about that psychoanalysis, the basic ideas driving a Marxist "analysis" of things have several huge consequences:
This is a long tradition of the Left: progressives have always assumed that they understand the world much better than the people for whom they purport to speak. In terms of the terror war, there exists an obvious and profound racism in the believer’s disposition, since the implication is that Muslims and Arabs are not bright enough to understand their own circumstances, and therefore their explanations of their own actions cannot be taken seriously.Thus while bin Laden, Zarqawi, and Moussaoui may insist that the holy jihad is motivated by the desire to spread sharia throughout the world, to erase individual freedom, and to kill, convert, or subjugate infidels, the Western leftists is constrained to rationalize that they are saying such things only because they have been hurt by capitalism and Western imperialism. As David Horowitz points out, the leftist holds the Marxist perspective that religion is nothing more than a thought structure rooted in suffering under capitalism. Once the oppression stops, the believer assumes, the Islamist conceptions of Allah and jihad (which the believer privately considers ridiculous but would never dare say so in public) will simply disappear. Believers, therefore, inevitably deny the Islamic dimension that the terrorists themselves insist is their impetus for terror.
That is partly right, but the Marxism Horowitz attacks here is often referred to as the "vulgar" kind, the kind that sees ideology as simply the "epiphenomenon" (function of) underlying economic realities. Newer Marxists -- such as Gramsci and all the rest -- see things as more complicated than that, and this has led them to talk a lot about the power of language to control perception to further their communist ends. So we could add to Horowitz's analysis by saying that hard Left believers also insist that the jihad problem is in large part a problem of language (which they call "discourse"). This is why they refuse to name things accurately -- because they are not trying to reflect reality, but shape it. If they're successful linguistically, they think, the jihad problem will disappear.
Wrong on all counts.
| 370 |
Dreader1962 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:18:59pm |
- Figure representing Israel compared to Nazi stormtrooper - check
- Jewish religious symbol defiled - check
- Palis represented as small, defenseless victims - check
Yep, it's all here, in all of its 'subtle' glory. I remember Oliphant from the '80s constantly portrayed Reagan as an idiot.
Would they dare to put teeth on the star and crescent symbol of Islam? No - that would get them in trouble from those very 'victims' they are afraid of.
| 371 |
hous bin pharteen Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:19:35pm |
re: #356 Tom Taylor
With a revolver, get a reload tool. I forget what it is called. You can reload 6 rounds at a time with it. An automatic has a clip to reload. Any one who knows the name, feel free to chip in.
| 372 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:20:03pm |
re: #371 hous bin pharteen
With a revolver, get a reload tool. I forget what it is called. You can reload 6 rounds at a time with it. An automatic has a clip to reload. Any one who knows the name, feel free to chip in.
Speed loader?
| 374 |
pink freud Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:22:08pm |
re: #360 SanFranciscoZionist
Hardly the original.
Look, folks, I keep seeing this here, and there's a couple things I want to point out:
1. Mohammed's other wives, AFAIK, were grown-ups. Khadija was his senior by quite a bit.
2. We're talking about a community (early medieval Arabia) in which I'm pretty sure marriages of very young girls for political reasons were not uncommon.
3. Aisha, who grew up to become a religious leader in her own right, deserves better than to be a nameless figure in a regular crack on Muhammed.
The ick factor is quite real, here, but guys, IT WAS THE SEVENTH CENTURY. Mohammed wasn't a pedophile, he was a man of a very distant and very foreign time and place.
My two cents. Feel free to ignore them.
Having sex with a child is the same whether it occurred in some far away place in time or not. This is the type of thing I hear every day, an attempt to justify something so vile that there really is no sound justification ......just moral and cultural relativism.
| 375 |
godfrey Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:22:13pm |
re: #370 Dreader1962
Classic bully behavior: fear the people who will actually hit you, and act out your fear by brutalizing the people (Israelis) who won't.
Oliphant is hiding behind his inkpot. Coward and thug, rolled into one.
| 376 |
jcm Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:22:35pm |
re: #371 hous bin pharteen
With a revolver, get a reload tool. I forget what it is called. You can reload 6 rounds at a time with it. An automatic has a clip to reload. Any one who knows the name, feel free to chip in.
Speed Loader.
| 377 |
Pupdawg Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:22:47pm |
re: #266 Malleus Dei
"Not to worry - here's one gentile who's got your back. You can depend on it."
Here's two. Anybody going after the Jews again has to go through me.
...add one more.
| 378 |
alegrias Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:25:10pm |
If your employer, college or library buys the NYT or WashPost, complain about this travesty to the management, college president or top librarian.
Cancel subscriptions & bankrupt them!
| 379 |
rolltideroll Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:25:44pm |
Until I saw the woman representing Gaza, I swear I thought the cartoon was from the Beobachter in Germany during the Nazi years.Just replace Gaza with Germany, and this guy could be sued for infringement.
| 381 |
WriterMom Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:28:31pm |
I think it's stupid and I couldn't give a single shit about this cartoonist. He can kiss my Zionist tuches.
| 383 |
rolltideroll Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:31:16pm |
re: #382 ploome hineni
you mean the Jews are not the most vile, aggresive genocidal nation on earth?
who knew?
The NYT damn sure did not know that.These guys sicken me. Aside from the nation they reside in, they lack the guts to take on anyone else.
| 384 |
hous bin pharteen Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:31:30pm |
At least Notre Dame students were outraged when the leftist Professors wanted Barak Osama to speak at their graduation. At least some college students have brains that work.
| 385 |
J.S. Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:32:25pm |
I sent a "note" to the NY Times...not, of course, that it'll make any difference to the antisemites. (One would think that in this time of financial difficulties -- I remember reading the Seattle Post Intelligencer -- what a fine newspaper it was back then, yet now, that paper is no more -- one would think that the NY Times would make an attempt to refrain from aggravating its readership or even further marginalizing its readers -- does the New York Times really believe that its readership is pleased with expressions of nazi era antisemitism?
| 386 |
Spare O'Lake Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:34:30pm |
re: #362 nyc redneck
that is a wretched cartoon.
poorly conceived. poorly executed.
the headless nazi is ridiculous.
as is the shark fanged star of david.
it is so over wrought and hysterical.
the best political cartoons don't hit you over the head w/ such blatant
angry purpose.
they are more subtle and the power is in what they leave to the viewer's
imagination.
this guy is a hateful fcking idiot.
the cartoon is abt what an asshole he is.
The prominent publication of the cartoon in major American newspapers is what strikes home.
Welcome to Amabo's Acirema.
| 387 |
WriterMom Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:35:06pm |
re: #378 alegrias
Cancel subscription? I can't believe anyone here has a subscription to the NY Times.
| 388 |
WriterMom Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:36:10pm |
re: #278 Spare O'Lake
This is not new for the Times.
"Hundreds of thousands of Jews killed by Nazi forces, see p.A35."
| 389 |
Tom Taylor Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:36:54pm |
re: #371 hous bin pharteen
Thanx but I use UpLULA. Nice thing. (with enough spare magazines) And no revolver.
| 390 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:40:59pm |
re: #374 pink freud
Having sex with a child is the same whether it occurred in some far away place in time or not. This is the type of thing I hear every day, an attempt to justify something so vile that there really is no sound justification ......just moral and cultural relativism.
Look, the medieval Church--well after Mohammed's day--took a hard line insisting that girls could not be married before the age of twelve. What does that mean? It means that in early medieval Europe girls, especially noble heiresses WERE being married before that age, and the Church moved to stop it. Good on them. India has been working to ban girls as young as eight or nine being married for over a hundred years now, and the fight isn't won yet. That's Hindus as well as Muslims.
I'm not justifying anything--I'll happily criticize any culture that still practices child marriages, and protest against such. But the past is a foreign country, and often a very unpleasant one. Pointing fingers at Mohammed for a pedophile--which evidence does not suggest he was in any clinical sense--makes no sense, unless we're going to point fingers at everyone. And it distracts from issues we can address in the here and now.
| 391 |
uptight Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:41:09pm |
re: #360 SanFranciscoZionist
The ick factor is quite real, here, but guys, IT WAS THE SEVENTH CENTURY. Mohammed wasn't a pedophile, he was a man of a very distant and very foreign time and place.
"6 year olds, dude"
| 392 |
Obsidiandog Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:42:08pm |
This looks like something you'd find in Julius Streicher's Der Sturmer.
| 393 |
dkorta Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:43:29pm |
re: #364 uptight
What do you think, folks - the cartoon looks sort of comfortable in it's natural setting
Yep. That's where it belongs, all right
| 394 |
rumcrook Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:44:46pm |
re: #18 WindHorse
the day they take taxpayer money to subsidize the lefts political point of view while at the same time trying to shut down talk radio with the fairness doctrine is the day Im going to try and figure out a way to opt out of paying taxes.
| 395 |
deermusic Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:48:28pm |
re: #387 WriterMom
I'm actually thinking about subscribing... just so I can cancel. In fact, I'd like to repeat that cycle over and over!
| 396 |
zionblog Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:50:32pm |
How about cox and fulcrum doing a cartoon related to the efforts to get countries to recognize Hamas and Hizballah (recognize as what?) - a picture of two pigs in arab dress personified as people with a large tube of lipstick being applied to them labeled "international recognition". The arm holding the lipstick can be labeled with the names of the groups pushing this. What is interesting his how big the push is to get these groups recognize but the people pushing this are simultaneously telling Israel that it should negotiate with these groups but do not be worried that they do not recognize Israe or its right (or the right of Jews) to exist because that is not important.
| 397 |
dpdev Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:50:56pm |
Does anyone have a link showing that this was in the New York Times?
| 399 |
Dr. Shalit Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:54:28pm |
OK My Take -
Freedom of the Press includes the right to be insulting. Freedom of the Market includes the right to cancel subscriptions and advertising. Act accordingly.
-S-
| 400 |
Randall Gross Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:54:43pm |
re: #319 Perplexed
Same thing, just a difference in magnitude. Property was confiscated, families separated, and people rounded up without a trial. Only thing missing on the American side was the mass murders.
You are truly challenged if you think they were the same. In the German camps not a blade of grass was present, because it all got eaten. That's a starting point to rethink your statement over.
| 401 |
Mostly sane, most of the time. Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:55:49pm |
I had time to think about it when I was driving my daughter somewhere, and the following issue occurred to me:
Even if the US is not ever home to widescale persecutions, we need to condemn this because not to do so is to give permission to others.
If we're Israel's best friend, and we don't condemn this past-sell-by-date* cartoonist for this, we slip the line, and allow not-so-subtly anti-semitic nations (hello, France) permission to slip a little, too.
Yeah, I know, they don't like us. This would allow those countries to say, "I'm not that bad. Look what even the US is doing."
They need to be without excuse.
*I'm talking about retirement
| 402 |
vagabond trader Thu, Mar 26, 2009 12:58:29pm |
Expect more of the same since the attendee of the "G-d damn Amerika and that dirty word Israel" church was elected.
| 404 |
Wendya Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:03:00pm |
re: #374 pink freud
Having sex with a child is the same whether it occurred in some far away place in time or not. This is the type of thing I hear every day, an attempt to justify something so vile that there really is no sound justification ......just moral and cultural relativism.
This isn't specific to Islam or the middle east. Many cultures practiced child marriage, including europeans.
Not excusing it... just pointing out a historical fact.
| 405 |
Tom Taylor Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:05:22pm |
re: #403 Iron Fist
you won't believe it - i made this statement some days ago in a discussion why I would not become Muslim...
Big Mo was a pedo.
You do not wanna hear their excuses about it...
| 406 |
A.W. Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:06:05pm |
Let's give them a bailout!
Seriously, how on earth is it that the people who call for the murder of all jews not compared to nazis, but the jews defending themselves are?
| 407 |
A.W. Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:07:52pm |
re: #405 Tom Taylor
Its the ultimate proof that Mo was not a holy man. if he was, don't you think God would have said to him, at least once, "dude, she is nine! get the hell off of her?"
| 408 |
Tom Taylor Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:12:53pm |
re: #407 A.W.
they said: different times...was not uncommon even in europe...she was a special girl...and so on.
modern muslim is different...
*spit*
yeah sure!
| 409 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:14:00pm |
re: #403 Iron Fist
Um, according to reports made by him, he had sex with a girl when she was nine years old. In what way can that not be considered pedophila? Because some other people did it too?
I'm willing to concede the word, if you feel it's important. The point I'm trying to make is that Mohammed's marriage to Aisha does not point to some specific moral failing or sexual twistedness of the man himself, which is what is being implied by the repeated identification of him as a pedophile by critics of Islam.
If people really want to get worked up about child marriage in the early medieval world, I'm down for it, but it seems smarter to focus on, perhaps, trying to end child marriages in our own day. Finger-pointing and yells of 'ha-ha, your prophet was a perv' seem silly to me.
| 410 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:15:19pm |
re: #407 A.W.
Its the ultimate proof that Mo was not a holy man. if he was, don't you think God would have said to him, at least once, "dude, she is nine! get the hell off of her?"
If we start playing that game with the Bible, we're gonna be in trouble, folks.
| 411 |
Tom Taylor Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:16:19pm |
but they love this guy - he is a fecking role model to these people!
| 412 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:20:31pm |
re: #400 Thanos
Orders of magnitude. We weren't running death camps. We ran internment camps. We rounded up people based on their country of origin, confiscated their property (or allowed it to be looted), denied them due process, and broke up families. Like I said, the only thing missing was the massive murders (and you can kill by starvation).
| 413 |
aggieann Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:24:30pm |
re: #371 hous bin pharteen
With a revolver, get a reload tool. I forget what it is called. You can reload 6 rounds at a time with it. An automatic has a clip to reload. Any one who knows the name, feel free to chip in.
I can't quite recoil it just now.
| 414 |
looking closely Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:28:27pm |
re: #8 buzzsawmonkey
The draftsmanship is superior to the now-famous "monkey" cartoon, but in terms of clarity of metaphor it is just as ill-conceived.
Well, the difference here is that the image in question is clearly Jew-hating. There is no other way to interpret it.
Even though some thin-skinned persons or agitators may have (mis)interpreted as such, the dead monkey cartoon was pretty clearly NOT intended to be racist, as it tied together two contemporaneous events (the shooting of a rampant ape and the bailout).
| 415 |
Throbert McGee Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:29:27pm |
Has anyone pointed out the two horizontal bars at the top and bottom of the cartoon? One serves as the ground; the other is cleverly disguised as a trail of smoke drifting in the sky above.
But the defense offered by Oliphant and his editors will be -- if they haven't offered it already -- that those two bars or stripes bracketing the Star of David clearly turn an otherwise anti-Semitic cartoon into a legitimate political critique of Israel, the self-styled "free" "democracy" and "human-rights oasis" whose national flag has a stellated hexagon with a stripe above and below.
(And how do I know this'll be their defense, with or without the scare quotes? Because political cartoonists have done this before -- they can draw the Star of David fucking the bloody eye sockets of Arab children with its hentai tentacle cocks, so long as they remember to put the star between two horizontal stripes. It's like a cootie-protection shot that immunizes them from accusations of Judenhass.)
| 416 |
hellosnackbar Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:32:06pm |
I'm all for free speech but this cartoon is nauseating!
| 417 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:35:05pm |
re: #400 Thanos
You are truly challenged if you think they were the same. In the German camps not a blade of grass was present, because it all got eaten. That's a starting point to rethink your statement over.
Perhaps you should ask some of the survivors of our internment camps how much they enjoyed their 'vacation'. We did some pretty outrageous things to different ethnic groups (Japanese, Germans, Italians) during WWII in the name of security.
| 419 |
J.S. Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:42:41pm |
re: #417 Perplexed
With all due respect, I think you might want to read a bit more about the conditions of others during WWII, etc, (for example, Canadians, British, etc., in Japanese run internment camps, etc.) so as to develop a more balanced perspective (thereby putting all into proper context).
| 420 |
looking closely Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:43:00pm |
re: #371 hous bin pharteen
With a revolver, get a reload tool. I forget what it is called. You can reload 6 rounds at a time with it. An automatic has a clip to reload. Any one who knows the name, feel free to chip in.
Its called (appropriately enough) a "Speedloader".
Bianchi makes plastic strips called "Speed strips" that will hold six revolver cartridges in a line. These aren't nearly so fast to reload with as the speedloaders, but they have the advantage of lying flatter in your pocket.
If you want semantic correctness, the thing you stick in the bottom of a semi-automatic pistol is properly termed a "magazine".
A "clip" is a (usually) bent piece of steel that holds a number of cartridges together for fast loading. . .usually into a bolt-action rifle.
| 421 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:48:28pm |
re: #419 J.S.
With all due respect, I think you might want to read a bit more about the conditions of others during WWII, etc, (for example, Canadians, British, etc., in Japanese run internment camps, etc.) so as to develop a more balanced perspective (thereby putting all into proper context).
Well, this mess got started when I replied to comment 280:
re: #262 Earick
My mother was born and raised in Germany. As a girl, she sat on her swing and watched as the jews were rounded up.
My father, an MP, was at that same time rounding up American Japs.Though the difference in treatment of the two groups is monumental, it must be stated... WE ALREADY DID IT ONCE!
Ummm, I am not accepting the premise that what we did in WWII regarding the Japanese is the same as what happened to the Jews during the same period.
What we did was wrong. I know the historical reference to how both civilians and military were treated by the Japanese military running their camps. That wasn't a part of the discussion. Do we base what we do to innocents on how our innocents are treated? Wrong is wrong regardless of who does it and what the US did during WWII to those interned in our camps was wrong. Why don't you read up on some history?
| 422 |
slterry40 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:48:55pm |
I guess we shouldn't expect any outrage from the MSM since they are the ones who printed it.
Interesting to compare the level headed response of the joooooish community, compared to the riots and insanity following the dust up from the Mohammed cartoons in Europe. Says a lot about both cultures if you ask me.
| 423 |
A Kiwi Infidel Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:50:11pm |
Good morning lizards, just climbing onto the rock for some early morning sun.
What a disgusting cartoon, couldnt be more further from the truth. In actuality, the ones pushing the Gazan women and children toward the abyss are the Gazan men as well as the cowards who are in hiding in countries like Egypt, Syria and Lebanon.
| 424 |
funky chicken Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:51:02pm |
Um, I have read the comments and honestly, I still don't get it. What's he trying to say? Is Israel currently operating in Gaza, or is this just something he penned last fall?
Gaza has just been a paradise since Israel gave it back to the "palestinians?"
It was Jews who ruined those greenhouses that Bill Gates bought for the "palestinians?"
really, don't get it
| 425 |
looking closely Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:54:04pm |
re: #294 paradox42
What brands are good?
Growing up in a liberal household has left me woefully ignorant about guns.
I only know the basics:
1) Don't point the gun at anything you don't want dead.
2) Assume the gun is ready to fire at all times.
3) Keep your finger off the trigger until the sights are on your target.
4) Know your target and what is beyond it.
For a shotgun, you can't go wrong with Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 series.
For a handgun, there are MANY good makes, but its hard to go wrong with any .357 revolver that says "Smith and Wesson" on its side. With semi-automatics, there are many good makes, but its also hard to go wrong with any pistol made by Sigarms, Beretta, CZ, and a few others so long as the model in question fits your hand. You have a lot more latitude with semi-automatic guns to pick different sorts of models, depending on personal preferences.
| 426 |
pink freud Thu, Mar 26, 2009 1:56:43pm |
re: #425 looking closely
My personal favorite, .357 flavor.
| 427 |
kynna Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:00:33pm |
This is un-freaking-believable. Will anyone on the left even say anything?
There is no scum deserving of being compared to Oliphant at this point. Appalling.
| 428 |
A Kiwi Infidel Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:02:45pm |
One must wonder why a jerkoff like Oliphant can so distort the truth. Either he is a complete moron (a possibility) or he sincerely believes that by sucking up to militant islam he will save his sorry ass when the war arrives on his doorstep. I have news for him.
| 429 |
pink freud Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:04:15pm |
re: #428 A Kiwi Infidel
Useful idiots. Well worth watching.
| 430 |
pbird Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:04:25pm |
re: #152 unrealizedviewpoint
What does this mean? I don't get it.
I do believe he is trying to be offensive.
| 431 |
J.S. Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:05:07pm |
re: #421 Perplexed
Do we base what we do to innocents on how our innocents are treated?
Of course not. However, there is a problem which is recognized by academic historians -- it's called "presentism." What can happen is that someone will read a historical account of event X, then exclaim: "Why, that is utterly unacceptable!" (especially when viewed by today's standards.) Imperial Japan never signed the 1929 Geneva Conventions with regard to POWs...British, Canadians, Americans, etc., who were captured by the Japanese were routinely tortured, starved, beaten, and used for medical experiments, etc. That was "par for the course." (and even the POW treatment of those interned by the Japanese in no way compares to what the Jewish population of Europe underwent.) Given this context a moaning about the "horrors" of any American run camp, really, just pales by comparison...
| 432 |
pink freud Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:05:39pm |
| 433 |
Aceofwhat? Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:05:43pm |
re: #422 slterry40
I guess we shouldn't expect any outrage from the MSM since they are the ones who printed it.
Interesting to compare the level headed response of the joooooish community, compared to the riots and insanity following the dust up from the Mohammed cartoons in Europe. Says a lot about both cultures if you ask me.
agree completely. and it says something else about the msm - most of whom now avoid publishing "dust-up" potential pieces and then give off some puffery about being sensitive when pressed. amazing how statistically correlated their sensitivities are with potential threat levels. makes this cartoon even more cowardly, imho.
| 434 |
rumcrook Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:12:16pm |
re: #421 Perplexed
wrong is wrong? ok sounds to me a lot like moral relativism to me. what we did in interning japanese germans and italians is the same as murdering 6 million jews and assorted gypsies ect.?! what were we supposed to do with straight out bunde nazis living here in the us who actively wanted to fight for germany and were hardcore nazis?
im not defending what was done mostly based only on ethnicity but I really dispise arguments that seem to be clothed in arguments of moral relativism.
if you punch someone in the arm an argument can be made its wrong. if you shoot them in the face its wrong but if I had to pick between the two I would rather be punched then shot.
would you rather be on the "wrong" end of the stick as a japanese american during ww2 or the "wrong" end of the stick as a jew in nazi germany?
| 435 |
galtg Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:14:03pm |
I wonder if here drew any cartoons depicting crazed Hamas terrorists firing rockets at Israeli schools?
probably not..it would get him banned from the NYT
| 436 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:14:20pm |
re: #431 J.S.
Of course not. However, there is a problem which is recognized by academic historians -- it's called "presentism." What can happen is that someone will read a historical account of event X, then exclaim: "Why, that is utterly unacceptable!" (especially when viewed by today's standards.) Imperial Japan never signed the 1929 Geneva Conventions with regard to POWs...British, Canadians, Americans, etc., who were captured by the Japanese were routinely tortured, starved, beaten, and used for medical experiments, etc. That was "par for the course." (and even the POW treatment of those interned by the Japanese in no way compares to what the Jewish population of Europe underwent.) Given this context a moaning about the "horrors" of any American run camp, really, just pales by comparison...
Hmmm, so the civilians held by the Japanese faced starvation, non existent medical care, death by over work, rapes (in the case of women), forced prostitution, beatings, etc. The only difference was that the Japanese didn't engage in GENOCIDE/MUDERS, except on the Chinese. Sounds a whole lot like went on in the death camps run by Europeans.
What we did was unacceptable for our society and EXCEPT for the genocide/murders our camps were run like those holding the Jews. Suggest you read up on how civilians held by the Japanese were treated.
| 437 |
Throbert McGee Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:16:05pm |
re: #16 Right mind left
The head is the Star, suggesting they are forging ahead beheaded on a quest to eat Gaza. Totally insane.
No, not to eat it -- rather, the star is like a barking Rottweiler driving the woman and baby to the edge of a cliff. (I only just now noticed that the lower right-hand corner of the cartoon is to be read as a sharp vertical drop, as well as visually suggesting the corner of a flag. Contrast this with the lower left-side, where the ground can be understood to continue out of the cartoon's frame.)
Er, wait, did I say "edge of a cliff"? Silly me, I should've been more precise: it's the edge of an excavated trench, or possibly the edge of a natural ravine as at Babi Yar -- but in either case it's meant to represent a mass grave towards which the evil Mogen David is driving the Gazans.
/someone please tell me I'm reading too much into this.
| 438 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:16:19pm |
re: #434 rumcrook
wrong is wrong? ok sounds to me a lot like moral relativism to me. what we did in interning japanese germans and italians is the same as murdering 6 million jews and assorted gypsies ect.?! what were we supposed to do with straight out bunde nazis living here in the us who actively wanted to fight for germany and were hardcore nazis?
im not defending what was done mostly based only on ethnicity but I really dispise arguments that seem to be clothed in arguments of moral relativism.
if you punch someone in the arm an argument can be made its wrong. if you shoot them in the face its wrong but if I had to pick between the two I would rather be punched then shot.
would you rather be on the "wrong" end of the stick as a japanese american during ww2 or the "wrong" end of the stick as a jew in nazi germany?
Nope, not moral relativism. Read all of what I wrote. Three words, EXCEPT FOR THE MURDERS might make a whole lot of difference.
| 439 |
Brooklyn Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:22:21pm |
I wrote this email msg to the NY Times' Public Editor:
I read a report that you published this cartoon:Oliphant cartoon inserted here
All I can say is, this is a level of antisemitism that I expect to see in the Arab media, or in historical representations of Nazi propaganda. That you would publish something like this appalls me. This is beyond the pale.
If I subscribed to your paper, I'd be terminating my subscription right now. I occasionally look at articles on your web site. From now on, I'll be doing it with AdBlock turned on.
I got back a quick reply:
Thank you for your email. I am sorry you were offended by the Oliphant cartoon, The Times received many similar comments. Please read the explanation from Craig Whitney, the Assistant Managing Editor at The Times:Catherine - The offending cartoon by Oliphant will not be published in The New York Times. It did not appear on our Website yesterday, either. What does appear there, by contract with uclick.com, is an "Oliphant" button on the cartoons page that, yesterday, got those who clicked on it to that cartoon, which is now relegated to the Oliphant archive.
The contract dates back years and the Achilles heel in the arrangement is that we do not review the feed editorially. Nobody at The Times, therefore, made any decision yesterday to "publish" the cartoon. But, though the click gets you to a uclick.com page, the banner on the page says "The New York Times .....Cartoons."
We will review our procedures and arrangements, and I don't know what you want to say about this to all the queriers, but this is the arrangement. I haven't had time to go back to see if I can find who negotiated it and what the chances of revising it are.
best
CraigI hope this helps explain the Times' role in your being exposed to the offending cartoon, and The Times' position on its content.
Sincerely,
Scott Garapolo
Office of the Public Editor
The New York TimesNote: The public editor's opinions are his own and do not represent those of The New York Times.
I went to the NY Times web site, and it seems that his description of how you would get to Oliphant's antisemitic cartoon via the NY Times web site is correct.
It may have been more a case of inadvertent incompetence than anti-Jewish malice. But they still deserve to get hammered, and I hope everyone here sends them an email: public@nytimes.com is the address.
| 440 |
J.S. Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:23:19pm |
re: #436 Perplexed
Actually, I was discussing POWs -- that is an acronym for "Prisoner of War" meaning these were military personnel. And I fear I am at a loss with respect to what you're attempting to state (or argue.) I do not understand your points. What are you saying about American internment camps? (are you referring to the ones located inside the United States during WWII? those built to house Japanese nationals? were you attempting to say that that was no different from nazi camps, other than murders?)
| 441 |
rumcrook Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:25:23pm |
re: #438 Perplexed
yes and except for that boilerplate caveat you put in it still reads that you think it was "just as wrong"
| 443 |
pink freud Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:31:14pm |
re: #439 Brooklyn
You should post that update on the current thread for those who're no longer following this one.
| 444 |
brookly red Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:32:07pm |
re: #443 pink freud
You should post that update on the current thread for those who're no longer following this one.
I second that.
| 445 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:36:02pm |
re: #440 J.S.
Actually, I was discussing POWs -- that is an acronym for "Prisoner of War" meaning these were military personnel. And I fear I am at a loss with respect to what you're attempting to state (or argue.) I do not understand your points. What are you saying about American internment camps? (are you referring to the ones located inside the United States during WWII? those built to house Japanese nationals? were you attempting to say that that was no different from nazi camps, other than murders?)
Our internment camps were hell holes. We incarcerated people without due process. Poor food, little sanitation, little medical care. The only difference between our internment camps and those run by both the Japanese and Germans is that we weren't interested in murdering the occupants through many different means (gassing, starving, gunning them down, etc.). I am familiar with the term POWs and knew that Japan was not a signer to the Geneva Conventions during WWII.
I am referring to the camps run on US soil during WWII for internment of Japanese, German, and Italians and yes, except for the murders the conditions in our camps were very close to those run by the Axis powers.
| 446 |
Throbert McGee Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:38:43pm |
I can't decide whether the sword (as opposed to a modern rifle) is intended to have a specific meaning beyond generically signifying military force.
The design of the sword immediately suggested to me the weapon of Crusading knight -- that is, a figure historically associated with Christian militarism, rather than Jewish. So possibly it's a detail consciously chosen by Oliphant to deflect charges of anti-Semitism, by implying that mostly-Muslim Gaza is being driven to the cliff by the combined policies of mostly-Jewish Israel and mostly-Christian America. And whether the headless Christian Crusader is in control of the Jewish attack dog, or being guided by it, is left to the interpretations of the reader.
But then again, it could just as easily be a generic symbol of martial violence.
| 447 |
rumcrook Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:39:02pm |
re: #445 Perplexed
except for the murders the conditions in our camps were very close to those run by the Axis powers.
completely untrue. and thus you are trying to argue that they were "just as bad"
we didnt even remotely aproach the brutality of the axis powers. not even remotely.
| 448 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:43:57pm |
re: #447 rumcrook
completely untrue. and thus you are trying to argue that they were "just as bad"
we didnt even remotely aproach the brutality of the axis powers. not even remotely.
Read some of the links in 417 and tell me if you would stay in one of those camps for the duration of the war. Poor sanitation, little food, poor housing, poor to non existent medical care. Our camps, except for not wanting to kill the occupants, were as bad as those run by the axis powers.
| 449 |
rumcrook Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:53:28pm |
this is why your argument is really a moral relativism argument.
were the camps austere yes.
was it a hard life? yes
was it a black mark on the U.S.? yes.
austere is not remotely the same as the viscous evil perpetrated in the nazi death camps on a daily basis and the millions who werent gassed to death they were literally starved to death. the japanese internees were never subjected to a campaign of starvation.
and you never answered my question.
where would you rather be? in an american internment camp as a japanese american?
or in a nazi internment camp?
and you cant tell me that if you thru out the question of the nazi murdering you wouldnt care which camp you would have ended up in!
so come on put your money where your mouth is, if you had to be in a camp go ahead and say you would be willing to flip a coin and have had an equal chance of ending up a guest of the nazis.
| 450 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:57:13pm |
re: #449 rumcrook
As a POW or as a civilian in one of the death camps?
| 451 |
A Kiwi Infidel Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:58:55pm |
re: #429 pink freud
Useful idiots. Well worth watching.
Marked for extermination?! "Most of them, yes?!" Gark!
| 452 |
Eclectic Infidel Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:59:25pm |
As much as I'm disgusted, I'm also not surprised. Ever since Operation Cast Lead, I've noticed an uptake in anti-Israel sentiment in the media and anti-semitic behavior from the Pro-Palestinian mob/thugs in the SF Bay Area. I expect to see more of this.
On a side note, for those who remember my post regarding the March 21st Rally in San Francisco where 5 wannabe jihadi kids were arrested for attempting to incite violence against 4 unarmed Zionists...well, the SF DA will not be pressing charges. All of them have been released. A green light has just been given to Bay Area pro-Pali thugs that it's ok to harrass and threaten Zionists and Jews because the DA won't do anything.
| 453 |
Lincolntf Thu, Mar 26, 2009 2:59:37pm |
re: #448 Perplexed
Except for murdering the occupants of the Camps, the U.S. camps were the same?
Except for killing someone, not killing someone is just as bad? Check your moral relativism at the door, we're in the rabbit hole.
| 454 |
A Kiwi Infidel Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:01:29pm |
re: #432 pink freud
Even better, and links to all five parts.
Ya hear that, people!? Unplug the bananas from you ears and hear and see!
| 455 |
rumcrook Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:02:04pm |
well as steve mcqueen of course/
dont be obtuse.
im done ive proved my point. and im satisfied you didnt.
| 456 |
Brooklyn Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:02:05pm |
re: #443 pink freud
Thanks! I'm not familiar enough with this site, though. Where's "the current thread?" How do I find it?
| 457 |
pink freud Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:02:48pm |
re: #451 A Kiwi Infidel
Marked for extermination?! "Most of them, yes?!" Gark!
Chilling stuff, isn't it?
| 458 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:03:14pm |
re: #453 Lincolntf
Except for murdering the occupants of the Camps, the U.S. camps were the same?
Except for killing someone, not killing someone is just as bad? Check your moral relativism at the door, we're in the rabbit hole.
We didn't run death camps. Our camps were as bad as those run by the Axis powers. A better comparison would be the Axis POW camps were on par with our internment camps.
We did some pretty evil things in the name of security during WWII. It isn't moral relativism unless you want to gloss over our history. Read post 417.
| 459 |
tedzilla99 Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:05:26pm |
Can I hope that Oliphant fails, or is that off limits?
| 460 |
A Kiwi Infidel Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:05:51pm |
| 461 |
pink freud Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:05:56pm |
re: #456 Brooklyn
I posted it for you on the 'onion' thread, but we've since moved on to a newer one! Charles is rolling today.
To get to the newer threads just open a browser to the homepage of LGF and the newer thread will be at the top of the page.
Here is where I posted it for you. It is comment number 17; I linked it back to you here.
| 462 |
Render Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:06:48pm |
re: #436 Perplexed
Wrong. So wrong there isn't enough room in a LGF comment box to list all the ways that you are wrong.
JUST
WRONG,
R
| 463 |
ducktrapper Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:07:03pm |
Particularly nasty anti-semitism and really bad cartooning. What a winning combo!
| 464 |
pink freud Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:08:46pm |
re: #462 Render
Wrong. So wrong there isn't enough room in a LGF comment box to list all the ways that you are wrong.
JUST
WRONG,
R
I get a large whiff of Zinn revisionism in his comments, not to mention "America is BAD."
| 465 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:10:12pm |
re: #462 Render
Wrong. So wrong there isn't enough room in a LGF comment box to list all the ways that you are wrong.
JUST
WRONG,
R
So you would be happy with being rounded up, having your property confiscated, separated from your family, being detained indefinitely, dumped into an over crowded facility, fed with minimal rations, denied medical care,etc?
Sounds pretty much like what the axis powers did.
| 467 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:11:37pm |
re: #431 J.S.
Of course not. However, there is a problem which is recognized by academic historians -- it's called "presentism." What can happen is that someone will read a historical account of event X, then exclaim: "Why, that is utterly unacceptable!" (especially when viewed by today's standards.) Imperial Japan never signed the 1929 Geneva Conventions with regard to POWs...British, Canadians, Americans, etc., who were captured by the Japanese were routinely tortured, starved, beaten, and used for medical experiments, etc. That was "par for the course." (and even the POW treatment of those interned by the Japanese in no way compares to what the Jewish population of Europe underwent.) Given this context a moaning about the "horrors" of any American run camp, really, just pales by comparison...
Now, isn't that moral relativism...?
//
The problem I have here is that I don't hold the U.S. to a general world standard, I hold us to our own standard. Yes, people were treated far worse in many parts of the world at the time. FAR worse. So unbelievably worse it makes the mind shut down kind of worse.
That doesn't make internment right.
Sort of like it still being wrong to beat your wife, even though some wives in India are being set on fire by their in-laws.
| 468 |
pink freud Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:11:38pm |
re: #466 Brooklyn
You're welcome. 'Twas a good thing you did.
| 469 |
Cheese Eating Victory Monkey Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:12:06pm |
NY Times 1943: Relegates Holocaust reports to the back page in small print.
NY Times 2009: Features Neo-Nazi cartoons defaming Jews and Israel.
| 470 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:12:35pm |
re: #446 Throbert McGee
I can't decide whether the sword (as opposed to a modern rifle) is intended to have a specific meaning beyond generically signifying military force.
The design of the sword immediately suggested to me the weapon of Crusading knight -- that is, a figure historically associated with Christian militarism, rather than Jewish. So possibly it's a detail consciously chosen by Oliphant to deflect charges of anti-Semitism, by implying that mostly-Muslim Gaza is being driven to the cliff by the combined policies of mostly-Jewish Israel and mostly-Christian America. And whether the headless Christian Crusader is in control of the Jewish attack dog, or being guided by it, is left to the interpretations of the reader.
But then again, it could just as easily be a generic symbol of martial violence.
Throbert, I think that thinking about this too much might be bad for your health. The symbolism is...highly problematic.
| 471 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:13:40pm |
re: #464 pink freud
I get a large whiff of Zinn revisionism in his comments, not to mention "America is BAD."
America is bad? Nope, not always. We have messed up pretty badly in the past. The way American Indians were dealt with and the way the Japanese were dealt with, were black spots on our country's history. Denying those is to deny our history. It happened.
| 472 |
rumcrook Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:18:05pm |
re: #467 SanFranciscoZionist
no one here is defending mass internments of the japanese it was horrible and we should see it as a shame on america,
but it was not and close to nor anywhere in the same catagory as the what the nazis were perpetrating. and thats where ive been calling out bullshit on the argument.
rave all day that it was unjust. it was. and ive felt a sense of outrage over stories ive read of what many japanese american families went through, made my blood boil. but I dont accept the premise that perplexed is propagating.
| 473 |
Lincolntf Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:20:57pm |
re: #458 Perplexed
As well as reading Post #417 , I'll talk to my Japanese friends (somehow, their grandparents are still alive, unlike the "equally" oppressed grandparents of some of my Jewish friends) and ask them where they'd rather their ancestors were interned.
100% of them will choose California over Auschwitz, but that won't change your mind one bit, now will it?
| 474 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:24:33pm |
re: #472 rumcrook
no one here is defending mass internments of the japanese it was horrible and we should see it as a shame on america,
but it was not and close to nor anywhere in the same catagory as the what the nazis were perpetrating. and thats where ive been calling out bullshit on the argument.
rave all day that it was unjust. it was. and ive felt a sense of outrage over stories ive read of what many japanese american families went through, made my blood boil. but I dont accept the premise that perplexed is propagating.
Cold is cold.
Hungry is hungry.
Sick is sick.
Over crowded is over crowded.
Poor sanitation is poor sanitation.
| 475 |
rumcrook Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:25:27pm |
re: #471 Perplexed
re: #471 Perplexed
We have messed up pretty badly in the past. The way American Indians were dealt with and the way the Japanese were dealt with, were black spots on our country's history. Denying those is to deny our history. It happened.
that is the only thing we will agree on today.
| 476 |
pink freud Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:25:58pm |
NATIONAL SECURITY.
WAR IS HELL.
...and life ain't fair.
| 477 |
rumcrook Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:31:03pm |
re: #474 Perplexed
when I was in the army
I lived with cold (-30 degrees in the woods in a pup tent) and I couldnt leave..
there was poor sanitation, I was crappin into a trench in the ground and scraping my ass with anything I could get a hold of.
I felt terrafied and terrorized by the situation
I definately got sick....
using your argument my suffering was equal to what the japanese internees and the jews of auchwitz went through./
| 478 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:33:59pm |
re: #473 Lincolntf
As well as reading Post #417 , I'll talk to my Japanese friends (somehow, their grandparents are still alive, unlike the "equally" oppressed grandparents of some of my Jewish friends) and ask them where they'd rather their ancestors were interned.
100% of them will choose California over Auschwitz, but that won't change your mind one bit, now will it?
Hmmm, the Axis was hell bent to exterminate all Jews. We took in around 120,000 people and denied them basic human rights. Except for murdering the occupants of our camps our treatment of the detainees was quite similar to the way the axis powers dealt with their detainees. How hard is that to understand? Our detainees went hungry. Our detainees were denied medical care. Our detainees suffered in freezing temperatures. But you say that the Jews had it worse. Yes, I would agree with that. The Axis was trying to exterminate every Jew on the face of the earth. When you don't care if your detainees either live or die then the treatment descends into neglect to the point of death.
| 479 |
J.S. Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:34:24pm |
re: #467 SanFranciscoZionist
No one is claiming that the internment of the Japanese was a wonderful thing. Understood? however, to compare what America did (after the bombing of Pearl Harbor to Japanese nationals, etc) to what nazis did in WWII is to fundamentally distort history. Ok? Now you can either grasp the distinction or you can fail to grasp the distinction -- but, that's your problem, not mine.
| 480 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:35:22pm |
re: #477 rumcrook
when I was in the army
I lived with cold (-30 degrees in the woods in a pup tent) and I couldnt leave..
there was poor sanitation, I was crappin into a trench in the ground and scraping my ass with anything I could get a hold of.
I felt terrafied and terrorized by the situation
I definately got sick....
using your argument my suffering was equal to what the japanese internees and the jews of auchwitz went through./
You had food, and knew it was a temporary situation. Unlike either the Jews or the Japanese, they had no idea if they would ever be able to leave.
| 482 |
rumcrook Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:40:53pm |
re: #480 Perplexed
so if I add in the fact that I didnt feel they got enough food to me and I lost around 30 lbs of muscle mass during that time and I knew it would end but how?
would it fit your argument then?
its your argument not mine.
| 483 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:41:19pm |
Never again is right. Our government must never round up and intern any group of people just for who they are.
| 485 |
rumcrook Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:44:53pm |
re: #484 ducktrapper
that merits an upding for humor.
never underestimate the power of a good chuckle.
| 486 |
J.S. Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:48:17pm |
re: #478 Perplexed
"Except for murdering"
You keep writing this -- ah, yes, the little exception, eh? What the hell is wrong with you? You do realize that you're basically re-stating what neo-nazis state -- which is "Hitler was a wonderful leader, except, of course, for his murdering the Jews." How does this "exception" this "exemption" work here? Explain how you magically rewrite history and put in that "magic" exemption, exonerating a MASS MURDERER. Now, I have zero intentions of continuing with you.
| 487 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:49:57pm |
re: #481 Render
Roosevelt called them concentration camps.
What happened to the Japanese was:
They were rounded up.
Families were separated.
They lost all of their possessions.
They were locked up behind barbed wire fences.
They were fed substandard rations.
They were denied medical care.
They were indefinitely held in overcrowded facilities.
Sanitation was minimal since no plumbing was in the unheated buildings.
| 488 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 3:51:15pm |
re: #482 rumcrook
so if I add in the fact that I didnt feel they got enough food to me and I lost around 30 lbs of muscle mass during that time and I knew it would end but how?
would it fit your argument then?
its your argument not mine.
Sounds like the DMZ in S. Korea.
| 489 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 4:01:54pm |
re: #486 J.S.
So J.S. what was wrong with post 487? Was any of the content wrong/inaccurate?
| 491 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 4:13:22pm |
re: #490 Render
Union coal miner's strike of 1943? Government took over the operation of the mines.
Lincoln's civilian prison camps? If they were anything like Andersonville, then they were hell holes.
Racial segregation? Pretty bad when you consider the efforts put forth by a group people who had little to gain by supporting the federal government. Roosevelt? Not anywhere near either a _itler or Stalin. Both of those guys, by that time had the blood of millions on their hands. Roosevelt was beset by issues of his policies violating the Constitution both before and during WWII. The only thing that saved him was WWII rolling around when it did and providing nearly full employment.
As to threats, I don't take them lightly.
| 494 |
SanFranciscoZionist Thu, Mar 26, 2009 4:25:33pm |
re: #479 J.S.
No one is claiming that the internment of the Japanese was a wonderful thing. Understood? however, to compare what America did (after the bombing of Pearl Harbor to Japanese nationals, etc) to what nazis did in WWII is to fundamentally distort history. Ok? Now you can either grasp the distinction or you can fail to grasp the distinction -- but, that's your problem, not mine.
Do you disagree with anything I said? Because all I said was that there was no comparison, but that internment was a moral mistake, and that I hold the United States to a high moral standard. I said this in response to your post, which I did not disagree with, but added on to.
| 495 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 4:26:05pm |
re: #492 ploome hineni
Come on ploome. You can do better than ad hominem attacks. That's rather disappointing.
| 499 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 4:45:24pm |
re: #496 ploome hineni
That bit with the ship of refugees being returned to their deaths really pissed me off the first time I heard of it. There was no reason for the US to deny them entry into the US. It wasn't a thing where we were sitting on the fence trying to decide who to ally ourselves with because we were already supplying the UK with equipment under the Lend Lease Act. Always wondered why they were turned away.
| 500 |
Render Thu, Mar 26, 2009 4:56:42pm |
“Union coal miner's strike of 1943? Government took over the operation of the mines.”
-The government also took over the miners. Everything in your comment #487 is also true of what happened to those coal miners and their families. Ever heard of the company store? Uncle Sam took that over too. The mining companies and the union that ruled them through intimidation and fear also owned houses the miners lived in, and the land those houses sat on. Armed soldiers were placed in those towns, quitting the mines or the union was not a legal (or safe) option for the duration of the war.
“Lincoln's civilian prison camps? If they were anything like Andersonville, then they were hell holes.”
- They were bad enough considering the era, but that isn’t the point. Everything you described in your comment #487 was also done to those American citizens (Confederate sympathizers from northern states) by Abraham Lincoln’s direct (and documented) orders. So was Lincoln a nazi? I mean after all, that is kinda what this Charles Johnson/LGF post is about, isn’t it? I thought it was about Pat Oliphant comparing Israel to nazi Germany. You seemed to be way off on this tangent where you were comparing Roosevelt to _itler, US internment camps to nazi and Imperial Japanese death camps, and you are definitely missing just how important that distinction is - to a Jew.
“Racial segregation? Pretty bad when you consider the efforts put forth by a group people who had little to gain by supporting the federal government. Roosevelt? Not anywhere near either a _itler or Stalin. Both of those guys, by that time had the blood of millions on their hands. Roosevelt was beset by issues of his policies violating the Constitution both before and during WWII. The only thing that saved him was WWII rolling around when it did and providing nearly full employment.”
- So then, US internment (concentration) camps were not anywhere near comparable to the nazi or Imperial Japanese camps? Thanks for your participation in this exercise.
“As to threats, I don't take them lightly.”
- Then perhaps you might understand just how important this distinction is – to a Jew.
-There is another point you seem to be misunderstanding.
- Pat Oliphants cartoon isn’t offensive. It’s a warning sign. It’s a threat.
REPEATED,
R
| 501 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 5:08:44pm |
re: #500 Render
Render, I agree antisemitism, has never left the US. It went underground as being one of those things not discussed in "polite" company. It is disgusting that the Jews get held responsible for the woes of the world. It makes no sense when you see the contribution Jews have made to the world in nearly every significant field of endeavor. Literature, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Medicine, Mathematics, and the list goes on and on and on. I've never understood the thought processes behind antisemitism. Irrational? Don't know, but it seems counter productive.
| 502 |
Render Thu, Mar 26, 2009 5:20:53pm |
[Link: www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu...]
WAR
EFFORT,
R
| 503 |
Perplexed Thu, Mar 26, 2009 5:26:03pm |
re: #502 Render
Hmmm, thought that was more like the ends justify the means. More of Roosevelt's un-Constitutional behavior.
| 504 |
CLLRusso Thu, Mar 26, 2009 5:34:39pm |
re: #500 Render
What kind of threat? Pat Oliphant has always been obscene, and he is even worse in C-Span interviews when "explaining" his product. I simply had to turn the channel I felt nauseated just listening to his vulgar attack on Bill Clinton, and I don't LIKE Bill Clinton!
| 505 |
notutopia Thu, Mar 26, 2009 5:37:38pm |
This is absolute filth!
I swear it looks like Pre-WWII Hitler propaganda all over again.
| 506 |
kefirah Thu, Mar 26, 2009 5:41:19pm |
i just got back from my first trip to israel [b''h].
while i was there, i spent a day at yad vashem. i can say without hesitation that this cartoon would be right at home amidst the nazi and soviet cartoons that begin your tour through that hall of human-perpetrated horror.
that the day has come where this is acceptable in america scares me to the bones.
| 507 |
JHW Thu, Mar 26, 2009 5:49:54pm |
Japan considered overseas Japanese citizens of Japan, regardless of the citizenship status of their birth or overseas citizenship, based on ethnicity only:
Shoal of Time, a History of Hawaii
Some US-Japanese citizens spied for Japan prior to the Pearl Harbor attack.
See also Permanent Resident Alien vs. Enemy Alien
I detest these kind of equivalencies, another "Oh how horrible we are" scenario. Racism was not unique to the USA or Japan, either then or now. Go to japan, as I have (I love the country and people, and can speak and read passable Japanese) and you'll quickly find out what a "Gaijin" is, especially if you try to get a drink in a bar and get turned out "Japanese only, no gaijin"
Reading was suggested for us, well I've got one too.
War without Mercy :Race and Power in the Pacific War
You'll find racism was not confined to the USA. You might ask some Koreans about it also concerning Japanese attitudes toward them, try "comfort women".
I concur with Render, ploome and J.S, Any equivalencies to the treatment of Jews in Europe is contemptible.
| 508 |
Steffan Thu, Mar 26, 2009 6:24:44pm |
I just sent a nastygram to the WaPo, comparing them unfavorably to the Volkischer Beobachter and accusing their editorial board of being closer to Streicher and Goebbels than to Mencken or Pulitzer.
My money's on them dropping it in the shredder. I doubt it'll be printed.
| 509 |
Steffan Thu, Mar 26, 2009 6:29:05pm |
re: #507 JHW
You want to have a very short life? Go to Koreatown and make loud comments about all the "Japs" you see there.
Korea was under the Japanese boot from 1910 to 1945. Koreans and Chinese have no happy memories of Japanese occupation. The Japanese were every bit as bad to them, not to mention also to the Filipinos and Malays, as the Nazis were to the "subhuman" Slavs, Romani and Jews.
| 510 |
JHW Thu, Mar 26, 2009 6:39:06pm |
re: #509 Steffan
True. I once made the mistake in Tokyo of assuming a nan I was chatting with was Japanese, he became red-faced infuriated. "No, I'm a Korean, a 'Chosen-Jin', they brought me here as a sllave before the Pacific War. Don't ever call me a Japanese".
| 511 |
Opinionated Thu, Mar 26, 2009 6:39:13pm |
Anti Semitism is alive and well and in the open and gets no particular criticism.
Remember Michael F. Scheuer, the CIA official who didn't catch or stop Bin Ladin:
There is indeed an identifiable fifth column of pro-Israel U.S. citizens -- I have described them here and elsewhere as Israel-Firsters -- who have consciously made Israel's survival and protection their first priority, and who see worth in America only to the extent that its resources and manpower can be exploited to protect and further the interests of Israel in its religious war-to-the-death with the Arabs. These are disloyal citizens in much the same sense that the Civil War's disloyal northern "Copperheads" sought to help the Confederates destroy the Union. The Israel-Firsters help Israel suborn U.S. citizens to spy for Israel; they use their fortunes and political action organizations to buy U.S. politicians with campaign donations; and most of all they use their ready access to the media to disguise their own disloyalty by denigrating as anti-Semites or appeasers fellow citizens who dare to challenge them. The Israel-Firsters are unquestionably enemies of America’s republican experiment and will have to be destroyed as the Copperheads were destroyed -- by the people, after a full public deabte, at the ballot box.
[Link: security.nationaljournal.com...]
I wonder if he only wants us Jews destroyed or also our Gentile friends.
| 512 |
MJBrutus Thu, Mar 26, 2009 6:55:42pm |
Un-friggin-believable!
No thinking person is with a doubt that the NY Times sold their collective souls years ago, but for the most part, they still knew how to pander to their NY readership, which includes a great many Jews. What Jew would ever again consider buying an issue of this repulsive rag?
| 513 |
wun wabbit wun Thu, Mar 26, 2009 7:06:40pm |
I wonder if Oliphant will continue with his vitriol once the NY Slimes is a non-profit rag?
| 514 |
Catttt Thu, Mar 26, 2009 7:57:46pm |
Mr. Oliphant's nasty work is not only anti-Jewish - it is bad.
It's also derivative of a number of cartoons that have run in ME newspapers, where the Star of David and the Nazi swastika together with tiny, pitiful Palestinians and a large, scary Israeli soldier have been run for many years.
| 515 |
yochanan Thu, Mar 26, 2009 8:13:26pm |
re: #480 Perplexed
You had food, and knew it was a temporary situation. Unlike either the Jews or the Japanese, they had no idea if they would ever be able to leave.
every Jew and Romany in Nazi death camps would have loved to be in American internment or pow camps.
Nazi murdered American Jewish Pow's as well as soviet pow's.
| 516 |
Mr Spiffy Thu, Mar 26, 2009 8:22:19pm |
Where do I go to sign up for the headless, baby carriage brigade?
/////////////
| 517 |
Mr Spiffy Thu, Mar 26, 2009 8:27:12pm |
re: #30 subsailor68
Mr. Oliphant,
I assure you that I fully understand that the First Amendment is there to protect speech with which I disagree. I defend to the death that concept, and your right to create that cartoon and send it out into the marketplace of ideas.
With your kind permission, I shall now exercise my right to free speech:
Your work is revolting, disgusting, and despicable.
There, now we've both had our say.
didn't go far enough
but didn't get a downding either
| 518 |
Areopagitica Thu, Mar 26, 2009 9:39:24pm |
I wonder if this would pass muster under the new "Defamation of Religion" initiative of the OIC at the UN......oh, wait, all those islamic countries would probably be jumping for joy since this crap appears in their media all the time.
Did Oliphant learn to draw at the Julus Streicher School for the Arts?
Guys and gals, if this county doesn't pull its head out of its ass soon, we are going to be in trouble.
| 519 |
persiankippah Thu, Mar 26, 2009 11:34:15pm |
I am an American born citizen that is moving to Israel to join the IDF in May. I, along with 25 other young boys and girls, 17-23 y.o. from the Bay Area will be drafted to various functions of the IDF in November.
I am not joining the IDF because of the cartoons logic. I am joining because the cartoon is backwards, and the Star of David is actually a Crescent Moon.
| 520 |
paybacktime Fri, Mar 27, 2009 12:41:06am |
"It is reminiscent of the "Kosher Conspiracy?" illustration in the New Statesman - which featured a star of David impaling the Union Jack - a few years ago."
| 521 |
fat.elvis Fri, Mar 27, 2009 12:46:43am |
re: #296 essayons7
Yikes, .22 vs .223! You're comparing apples to grapefruits. This advice seems a little whack.
A .22 is highly-glorified (but extremely useful!) pellet gun. Extremely cheap to shoot but I'd only carry as a last ditch mouse gun. Rimfire cartridge for plinking or killing squirrels within 50-80 yards.
A .223 is what a Ruger Ranch Rifle or an AR-15 . It's a centerfire bottlenecked rifle cartridge. It can much more easily punch through walls and hurt innocent bystanders. Both are fairly awful choices for home defense. Unless you live in the middle of nowhere. Then pimp out your Bushmaster with all kinds of goodies I suppose. Although if you have to hurt someone they will paint you as a psycho gun nut in a court of law.
Video
Seriously, just get a Remington 870 12-gauge pump for your first gun --
about $250. Less if used. Probably the bedside go-to gun of most knowing gun people. Have someone show you how to use it. Learn how to clean it. (not so important in this weapon but still important). Research ammo but Wally World cheap birdshot if fine for most home defense situations.
Practice. And be safe. Then when you've learned that buy a pistol or revolver in a caliber you can safely and affordably learn to shoot.
| 523 |
bemused Fri, Mar 27, 2009 3:53:30am |
Pat Oliphant used to amuse me, but that was perhaps before I 'grew up' intellectually. He's another sad case of someone who's been around far too long for their own good.
| 524 |
rumcrook Fri, Mar 27, 2009 9:17:58am |
re: #522 Iron Fist
glocks are exellent, and safe, but for some one with no experience my worry is they wont handle it right and it wont cycle properly, the flex in the polymer frame sometimes keeps the action from resetting for some women becuase they cant hold the gun in the right way. ive not seen this problem with guys (unless they think thier a gangsta and shooting with a bent wrist.
right now the better deal in a polymer frame is the springfield xd in any caliber.
the best deal in a 357 magnum snubby is a ruger sp101.
im not seeing the immediate value in an ar-15 style 223 rifle for home defense even though I own one. but I would also try to acquire one and a stock of ammo for the future.
I would also suggest a remington 870 with a dear slayer barrel and a tube extension for a few extra shot shells of buckshot which is what ive set for home defense. its an exellent shotgun, reliable, priced reasonably. I payed around 120 for a deer slayer barrel if I remember correctly, and I picked up a tube extension for under 30 bucks.
shazzam instant death dealing machine without the pesky problem of looking like a nut weilding a black rifle commonly refered to by the msm as an asault weapon. even if your in your own home a zealous anti gun prosecutor might try to nifong you for defending yourself in your own home with a rifle. but a shotgun just doesnt have the dark side cache he can use to demigog you with. and its really less likely if you shoot it in your own home for any of the pellets to hurt an innocent nieghbor because of over penetration from your home through his home.
| 526 |
fat.elvis Sat, Mar 28, 2009 12:47:22am |
re: #522 Iron Fist
I agree. A .22 is GREAT first gun! I just objected to this weirdo "get a .22 or .223" comment from the said poster. Very misleading. I love shooting my friend's AR-15 in .223 but a) it's too expensive for me b) getting more expensive c) not even imaginably practical in anything but a Red Dawn situation and then you're dead anyway, so what. If things get bad you're much better off having a beat-up 12-gauge pump and a 500 shells and a 10/22 with 1000 rounds and a 9mm pistol with 500 rounds (this cost like what 200 dollars? to stock this much ammo?) This cost wouldn't fill but a dozen hi-cap magazines in any assault rifle these days.
All else you say is true. The .22 is probably the best SHTF gun there is by virtue of availability and cheapness of ammo. By virtue of cheapness and ease of handling, I'd recommend a couple .22s, 9mm, and 12 or 20 gauge weapons in every household.
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