Florida City Cancels ‘Tea Party’ Because Organizers Refuse to Get Insurance

US News • Views: 14,482

I’m getting email from people outraged that the city of Cape Coral, Florida, has canceled a “tea party” protest, because (they say) the government fears too many attendees.

CAPE CORAL, Fla. - A tea party to protest government spending and taxing is canceled. Canceled by the government.

Why? They feel too many people could show-up.

Lynn Rosko planned to hold a tax payer tea party at Jaycee Park in Cape Coral on April 1st. The idea was announced at a Cape Coral City Council meeting, then an e-mail blast by the Republican Party and it was mentioned in the local media.

With all of that attention, the City of Cape Coral felt there could be more than 500 people attending the tea party.

But please, folks. Get a grip. The government is not trying to shut down the protest. They just wanted the organizers to take out a permit and insurance because the rally was going to be larger than originally planned.

Therefore Rosko needed to get a permit and insurance for the event. Rosko says she’s not willing to get insurance and accept liability for something that a stranger could do. Rosko told WINK News, “I have rescinded any organizing or supervision or what ever you want to call it over this tea party on April 1st.”

WINK News spoke to the director of parks for Cape Coral. He says that even now if Rosko is willing to get insurance for the event he’ll likely re-authorize it.

To me, this looks like the city government is being perfectly reasonable and responsible.

UPDATE at 3/29/09 2:43:53 pm:

Note that Cape Coral’s Special Event Permit Process very clearly states that events with more than 500 attendees must have permits and insurance. (Hat tip: Gus 802.)

The City of Cape Coral requires that all organizers who wish to conduct a special event for more than 500 people apply for a special event permit. Each permit is reviewed by all pertinent departments within the city, and serves as a tool to assist the event organizer in producing a safe, well planned event.

Event Insurance for events on city property is required.

The Insurance Accord Form needs to have these specifics:

1) Name of the event
2) Location of the event
3) Time and date of the event
4) Name the City of Cape Coral additional insured

Share these details with your insurance provider

Events Not on city property don’t require event insurance, but it is recommended.

Jump to bottom

599 comments
1 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 12:58:04pm

Even ANSWER gets permits and insurance. They budget for it.

The Tea Party organizers need to do exactly the same thing.

2 gulfloafer  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 12:58:36pm

They should get a permit.

3 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 12:58:41pm

And Louisville looks like they are in trouble also?

4 livefreeor die  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:00:30pm

re: #3 Nevergiveup

And Louisville looks like they are in trouble also?

What’s the score? (I’m too tired to move from my chair. The baby was up several times last night. I think he’s teething.)

5 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:00:56pm

U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said on Sunday that economic sanctions would be more effective than diplomatic overtures in bringing Iran to the negotiating table over its nuclear program.

“Perhaps if there is enough economic pressure placed on Iran, diplomacy can provide them an open door through which they can walk if they choose to change their policies,” Gates said on Fox News Sunday.

haaretz.com

Gates has been drinking way to much of something in that Obama White House.

6 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:01:17pm

re: #4 livefreeor die

What’s the score? (I’m too tired to move from my chair. The baby was up several times last night. I think he’s teething.)

49-40

7 jorline  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:01:35pm

Damn AIG.

Hands always in our pockets…can’t even have a “Tea Party”.

8 livefreeor die  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:01:36pm

re: #6 Nevergiveup

49-40

Thanks!

9 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:01:43pm
10 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:01:51pm

re: #8 livefreeor die

Thanks!

9:24 to go

11 brookly red  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:02:32pm

/ Hello, AIG ? yes, I wanted to some information on insuring an event… yes, OK… I will hold. :)

12 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:02:47pm

And Tigers charging in the Arnold Palmer Invitational

13 livefreeor die  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:03:35pm

re: #12 Nevergiveup

And Tigers charging in the Arnold Palmer Invitational

Double cool. Sounds like he’s recovered from surgery.

14 DistantThunder  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:03:52pm

But what if the cost for the insurance is prohibitive. How does that then iinfringe on the right to peaceable assembly as stated in the constitution?

15 NelsFree  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:04:28pm

Flash Mob Tea Party? I’ve never organized an activity like this. In Scouts you have to have a tour permit, medical forms for everyone, directions for each driver, and a list of who rides with whom. Well, I hope many more people attend.

16 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:04:32pm

Palestinian youth orchestra disbanded over concert for Holocaust survivors

By The Associated Press

Tags: Israel News, Jewish World

Palestinian authorities disbanded a youth orchestra from a West Bank refugee camp after it played for a group of Holocaust survivors in Israel, a local official said on Sunday.

haaretz.com

Yeah give peace a chance?

17 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:04:44pm
18 livefreeor die  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:04:54pm

re: #14 DistantThunder

But what if the cost for the insurance is prohibitive. How does that then iinfringe on the right to peaceable assembly as stated in the constitution?

Thank goodness the organizers of the original Tea Party didn’t have to worry about these things.

19 KingKenrod  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:05:47pm

I thought Newt Gingrich’s group American Solutions was getting involved in these protests. Can’t AS help them get a friggin’ permit?

20 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:06:05pm
21 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:06:06pm

This story is all over right-wing blogs and so far every one of them is screaming in outrage about suppression and first amendment rights being violated.

22 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:06:14pm

It’s a conspiracy! I know I’ve been picking on Glenn Reynolds a lot these days but here’s how he covered the same story…..


TEA PARTY UPDATE: Cancelled Due To Fear of Success?
CAPE CORAL, Fla. - A tea party to protest government spending and taxing is canceled. Canceled by the government.

Why? They feel too many people could show-up.

That would be awful.

23 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:06:21pm

So the idea is catching on, growing in popularity, and the organizers let it be shut down because they can’t be bothered to get the demo insurance? Not smart.

OTOH, I doubt the Sons of Liberty took out demo insurance.

OTOOH, I doubt the Sons of Liberty would have been sued if someone had been concussed with a tea crate.

24 pat  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:06:39pm

There is nothing in the Constitutions right to assembly that requires insurance.
This is a political protest , not a St Patrick’s day parade.
/rabble rousing

25 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:06:39pm

re: #18 livefreeor die

Thank goodness the organizers of the original Tea Party didn’t have to worry about these things.

Yeah. They only needed worry about things like gettin’ hanged.

26 gulfloafer  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:06:55pm

re: #17 MandyManners
Conservatives probably didn’t get any earmarks in the omnibus spending bill./

27 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:07:43pm

Last update - 18:24 29/03/2009

Iran to complete hospital that Israel started building in Mauritania

By Barak Ravid, Haaretz Correspondent

Tags: Israel News, Iran, Mauritania

Just a few weeks after the Israeli ambassador to Mauritania was ordered to leave the country, with encouragement from Iran, the regime in Tehran is attempting to take control of a hospital for cancer research and treatment in the Mauritanian capital, which has symbolized relations between Jerusalem and Nouakchott.


haaretz.com

Me. I’d blow the freak en Hospital up, but then I’m vindictive as hell.

28 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:08:12pm

re: #14 DistantThunder

But what if the cost for the insurance is prohibitive. How does that then iinfringe on the right to peaceable assembly as stated in the constitution?

Generally speaking, insurance like that isn’t prohibitive. When I was treasurer of a local history group, we carried liability insurance and it cost perhaps $300 per year. I don’t know what the expense would be, but if, as observed above, the anti-war types can get insurance, so can the Tea Party people.

29 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:08:23pm

re: #16 Nevergiveup

Palestinian youth orchestra disbanded over concert for Holocaust survivors

By The Associated Press

Tags: Israel News, Jewish World

Palestinian authorities disbanded a youth orchestra from a West Bank refugee camp after it played for a group of Holocaust survivors in Israel, a local official said on Sunday.

[Link: www.haaretz.com…]

Yeah give peace a chance?

You let them play music, they start hanging out with old Jews…these kids are never going to get on the straight and explosive at this rate.

30 turn  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:08:52pm

I’m all for obeying the law and all but I’d bet the protesters who made a martyr of the puke who murdered the four Oakland PD officers didn’t get a permit for their march. Just saying …

Hey what’s up in greater Lizardia this fine Sunday AM?

31 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:08:58pm

re: #21 Charles

This story is all over right-wing blogs and so far every one of them is screaming in outrage about suppression and first amendment rights being violated.

They’re wrong.

No city government in its right mind would issue a permit to a group without insurance.

32 pat  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:09:00pm

Do the anarchist get insurance?

33 livefreeor die  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:09:34pm

re: #25 unrealizedviewpoint

Yeah. They only needed worry about things like gettin’ hanged.

Yes, I think they wouldn’t be impressed by people not wanting to get insurance. Along those lines, wouldn’t insurance be in the best interests of the people organizing it in case they did get sued?

34 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:09:45pm

re: #1 Dianna

re: #2 gulfloafer

where to get the $$$$$$$. The permit is probably cheap, but the insurance would be prohibitive

35 CyanSnowHawk  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:09:49pm

re: #21 Charles

This story is all over right-wing blogs and so far every one of them is screaming in outrage about suppression and first amendment rights being violated.

They’re kind of new at this. “Code Pink” is laughing at them.

36 Killian Bundy  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:09:55pm

re: #17 MandyManners

If ANSWER can afford it, why not Conservatives?

Because they’re not organized professional protesters.

/they have actual day jobs

37 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:09:55pm

re: #32 pat

Yup, they have to.

38 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:09:56pm

Get a load of this rationalization:

Rosko says she’s not willing to get insurance and accept liability for something that a stranger could do.

Hello? The purpose of insurance is so that you are NOT liable for damages.

This is so ridiculous.

39 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:11:02pm

re: #18 livefreeor die

Thank goodness the organizers of the original Tea Party didn’t have to worry about these things.

They were vandals (even if I do approve of the action, let’s not mince words), or maybe robbery. It’s kind of hard to insure vandalism and robbery.

Against it, certainly, but not for it.

40 Athos  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:11:57pm

re: #21 Charles

This story is all over right-wing blogs and so far every one of them is screaming in outrage about suppression and first amendment rights being violated.

There is no suppression or first amendment rights being violated. As long as the organizers follow the basic rules to apply for a permit and have the needed insurance - they should be entitled to have their protest. Demanding a pass on these items is nothing more than demanding an exception or a pass on the standard requirements. Since left wing groups need to go through the process - there is no reason why conservative groups are entitled to an exception.

My town council is going to be having a series of town hall meetings over the next several months to education our community on issues and finances regarding incorporation - and we see no issue with ensuring that there is insurance coverage for those meetings. In today’s environment, it is the prudent path to take.

41 Colonel Panik  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:12:01pm

re: #32 pat

Do the anarchist get insurance?

Black Flag Insurance Co. Insuring Chaos since 1886!

42 livefreeor die  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:12:20pm

re: #38 Charles

Get a load of this rationalization:


Hello? The purpose of insurance is so that you are NOT liable for damages.

This is so ridiculous.

Sigh. If we’re going to retake Congress and the White House, people are going to have to toughen up.

43 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:12:43pm

So what’s the deal with Biden’s daughter doing a little Blow?

44 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:13:02pm

re: #32 pat

Do the anarchist get insurance?

No.

They’re the reason ANSWER always buys insurance.

45 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:13:22pm

re: #38 Charles

Get a load of this rationalization:


Hello? The purpose of insurance is so that you are NOT liable for damages.

This is so ridiculous.

The permit is a no problem. They;’re cheap and could be in anyones name. Roskos “explanation” is lame, at best. The problem is the insurance. Who pays, and how much (I’ll bet it would be pricey). Whose name is on the policy (that person or entity would be liable to lawsuits)

46 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:13:26pm

re: #36 Killian Bundy

Because they’re not organized professional protesters.

/they have actual day jobs

So let them pass the hat, or make a few calls.

47 VegasRick  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:13:34pm

re: #43 Nevergiveup

So what’s the deal with Biden’s daughter doing a little Blow?

She needed the money?
/

48 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:13:42pm

re: #34 sattv4u2

re: #2 gulfloafer

where to get the $$$$$$$. The permit is probably cheap, but the insurance would be prohibitive

I doubt it. Really, I do.

49 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:13:56pm

re: #33 livefreeor die

Yes, I think they wouldn’t be impressed by people not wanting to get insurance. period. We’re all a bunch of pansie-assed communists!

50 gulfloafer  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:14:02pm

re: #34 sattv4u2

I don’t know? Have a bake sale?

51 LGoPs  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:14:17pm

re: #36 Killian Bundy

Because they’re not organized professional protesters.

/they have actual day jobs

It does say something about our country that, all fiegned protests about oppression aside, it has a professional agitator class. And one that in many ways is supported by the taxes of the very citizens it is trying to undermine.
Makes my mind reel.

52 quickjustice  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:14:32pm

It’d be useful to know how much an insurance premium for something like this would cost.

53 HoosierHoops  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:14:44pm

re: #43 Nevergiveup

So what’s the deal with Biden’s daughter doing a little Blow?

It was a problem she inherited..
Louisville game is killing me.

54 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:14:46pm

re: #48 Dianna

I would guess the insurance might be a couple hundred bucks. I googled to verify, no luck.

55 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:14:48pm

re: #38 Charles

Get a load of this rationalization:

Hello? The purpose of insurance is so that you are NOT liable for damages.

This is so ridiculous.

That, or she knows nothing about what she’s doing, and should find someone who does.

56 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:14:56pm

I don’t know why but I don’t like Michigan St.. Never did.

57 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:15:00pm

Faux outrage is one of the things I detest most about bloggers and blogging. There’s enough real stuff out there to get mad about that you don’t have to make shit up. The whole “they are out to get us because there’s a conspiracy against the right/left” mindset you have to put on to fake that outrage might actually start to affect you if you practice it too long, look at Markos.

58 Fat Jolly Penguin  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:15:02pm

How much does insurance for an event like this cost, anyway?

59 CyanSnowHawk  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:15:14pm

re: #49 unrealizedviewpoint

Pussy-Communists?
Isn’t that the law that prevents using federal troops for law enforcement?

60 Killian Bundy  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:15:52pm

Conservatives turning out in the streets in numbers is a new phenomenon.

/they’re just not up to speed yet on all the protest organizational requirements Lefty has been perfecting for decades

61 LGoPs  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:16:01pm

fiegned = feigned. PIMF

62 Athos  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:16:18pm

re: #30 turn

I’m all for obeying the law and all but I’d bet the protesters who made a martyr of the puke who murdered the four Oakland PD officers didn’t get a permit for their march. Just saying …

If that was the case, then the organizers should have been arrested.

In LA, we saw some similar actions when the anti-Prop 8 groups would march and demonstrate. For the most part the police didn’t bother them, but once they entered the streets and started blocking traffic they received a quick warning followed by arrests if they did not comply.

63 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:16:24pm

re: #45 sattv4u2

The permit is a no problem. They;’re cheap and could be in anyones name. Roskos “explanation” is lame, at best. The problem is the insurance. Who pays, and how much (I’ll bet it would be pricey). Whose name is on the policy (that person or entity would be liable to lawsuits)

Then she needs to talk to an insurance agent, not whine.

64 quickjustice  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:16:32pm

It’s hard to take these protesters seriously when they won’t spring a hundred bucks for this important cause!

65 brookly red  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:16:38pm

re: #52 quickjustice

It’d be useful to know how much an insurance premium for something like this would cost.

What are they insuring against? Personal injury? Property damage? how does this work?

66 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:17:24pm

re: #58 Fat Jolly Penguin

How much does insurance for an event like this cost, anyway?

The last time I had to get insurance for an event was in 1983, it was under three hundred for the insurance and security guard. (I needed both because we held the event at a National Guard armory.) The other event I held at a softball field was under 100.

67 livefreeor die  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:17:56pm

re: #63 Dianna

Then she needs to talk to an insurance agent, not whine.

I’m sure she could easily get in contact with people who’ve run other Tea Parties and find out how they went about insuring the event, who they got the insurance from, etc.

68 Vero  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:18:04pm

Well one thing is for sure, the Left-idiots are wrong about LGF - we are not all in lockstep - I totally disagree with the head-lizard on this one -

But that is just me.

69 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:18:15pm

re: #54 Killgore Trout

I would guess the insurance might be a couple hundred bucks. I googled to verify, no luck.

I won’t begin to guess, but I’m sure any city attorney would be able to tell Resko, or any other organizer.

70 quickjustice  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:18:15pm

re: #65 brookly red

I’m no insurance agent, but probably insurance against liability and property damage if the demonstration gets out of hand.

71 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:18:26pm

re: #59 CyanSnowHawk

Pussy-Communists?
Isn’t that the law that prevents using federal troops for law enforcement?

I was going off on how we’ve changed as a people. Compared to how folks used to view govt’s role - we’re all bunch of pussy’s.

72 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:18:34pm

Gates: U.S. Not Prepared to Respond to North Korea Missile Launch
The defense secretary told “FOX News Sunday” that the United States can do nothing to stop North Korea from thumbing its nose at the international community by test-firing a long-range missile.

foxnews.com

I hate Gates more every day. Ya just can’t ever serve 2 masters.

73 LGoPs  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:19:48pm

re: #65 brookly red

What are they insuring against? Personal injury? Property damage? how does this work?

I was thinking along the same lines. When the commies apply for revolution insurance are they being ensured against breaking the country……..
/

74 livefreeor die  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:20:03pm

re: #72 Nevergiveup

Gates: U.S. Not Prepared to Respond to North Korea Missile Launch
The defense secretary told “FOX News Sunday” that the United States can do nothing to stop North Korea from thumbing its nose at the international community by test-firing a long-range missile.

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

I hate Gates more every day. Ya just can’t ever serve 2 masters.

Even if we’re not going to do anything about it, there’s no need for him to broadcast that fact.

75 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:20:07pm

Spanish Court Considers Criminal Case Against Ex-Bush Officials
Court has agreed to consider opening a criminal case against six former Bush administration officials, including former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, over allegations they gave legal cover for torture at Guantanamo Bay.

foxnews.com

How do you say Fuck You in Spanish?

76 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:20:33pm

re: #74 livefreeor die

Even if we’re not going to do anything about it, there’s no need for him to broadcast that fact.

Exactly.

77 livefreeor die  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:20:38pm

re: #75 Nevergiveup

Spanish Court Considers Criminal Case Against Ex-Bush Officials
Court has agreed to consider opening a criminal case against six former Bush administration officials, including former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, over allegations they gave legal cover for torture at Guantanamo Bay.

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

How do you say Fuck You in Spanish?

The finger is universal.

78 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:20:40pm

re: #68 Vero

Well one thing is for sure, the Left-idiots are wrong about LGF - we are not all in lockstep - I totally disagree with the head-lizard on this one -

But that is just me.

What do you disagree with? You think they should be allowed to demonstrate without a permit and insurance?

Would you say the same thing if this was an International ANSWER demonstration?

79 CyanSnowHawk  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:20:44pm

re: #71 unrealizedviewpoint

I was going off on how we’ve changed as a people. Compared to how folks used to view govt’s role - we’re all bunch of pussy’s.

And I was making a joke. Unsuccessfully apparently. Even Ginger the cat is telling me it was bad. Or at least I think that is what he is meowing about.

80 turn  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:20:51pm

re: #62 Athos

Athos, I heard the Oakland PD didn’t show up for that march. I’m still not sure I got that right, but it would be reasonable because I believe if they showed up things would have surely turned violent. Did you hear anything about them not showing up? Hey, is it windy in LA? Man it’s blowing like crazy in Sac.

81 brookly red  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:21:22pm

re: #70 quickjustice

I’m no insurance agent, but probably insurance against liability and property damage if the demonstration gets out of hand.

Thanks, I wonder how it works in a protest/counter protest situation?

82 LGoPs  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:21:45pm

re: #74 livefreeor die

Even if we’re not going to do anything about it, there’s no need for him to broadcast that fact.

That’s the diplomatic equivalent of hanging a kick-me sign on your back. If he didn’t have anything productive or useful to say then why didn’t he just STFU?
Sheesh.

83 VegasRick  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:21:46pm

Put a fork in Louisville.

84 Lincolntf  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:21:52pm

re: #52 quickjustice

Don’t know about the insurance premium, but up in MA they routinely give out the permits for cheap IF the person applying will pay the money required to pay “detail officers” from the Police force. Then the City tells the organizer how many detail officers he needs. It’s a nice way for the City to slap an extra tax on groups they don’t like. Those officers each get about $40 bucks an hour with 4 hour minmums, so it adds up quick.
The disparity between treatment of different groups has been a sore point for everyone from Car Show promoters to La Raza, but it’s still going on.

85 callahan23  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:22:08pm

re: #75 Nevergiveup

Spanish Court Considers Criminal Case Against Ex-Bush Officials
Court has agreed to consider opening a criminal case against six former Bush administration officials, including former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, over allegations they gave legal cover for torture at Guantanamo Bay.

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

How do you say Fuck You in Spanish?

Chupa me la pija. (Suck my d***)

86 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:22:37pm

re: #68 Vero

Well one thing is for sure, the Left-idiots are wrong about LGF - we are not all in lockstep - I totally disagree with the head-lizard on this one -

But that is just me.

I suspect you are amongst the minority at LGF. Lizards are mostly logical. It would be only logical to not only encourage but require insurance.

87 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:22:43pm

re: #17 MandyManners

If ANSWER can afford it, why not Conservatives?

500+ is a lot of people for a rally. All it takes are a few trouble makers to cause fights, and with 500 or more in attendance, things could get ugly quickly. Costs for the permit could be offset by collecting donations and it begs the question about forming a permanent nonprofit group for such events. Afterall, controversies with taxation aren’t just going to disappear when the Dems are no longer in power. A proactive group that holds events and educates the public at the same time may very well be a good idea for the long haul.

88 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:22:45pm

re: #85 callahan23

Chupa me la pija. (Suck my d***)

That will do. thanks.

89 livefreeor die  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:23:47pm

re: #82 LGoPs

That’s the diplomatic equivalent of hanging a kick-me sign on your back. If he didn’t have anything productive or useful to say then why didn’t he just STFU?
Sheesh.

Next thing you know, he’ll tell the terrorists we won’t respond to attacks.

90 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:23:52pm

Anyone see Magic Johnson in the audience. He looks like he has gained 100 lbs?

91 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:23:56pm

re: #81 brookly red

Thanks, I wonder how it works in a protest/counter protest situation?

In San Francisco, both parties get permits and insurance.

92 HoosierHoops  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:24:05pm

re: #83 VegasRick

Put a fork in Louisville.

Yup…I had Louisville and Pitt in the final..My record is perfect. I have never picked the winning team ever!
Think I’ll root for UConn now…

93 LGoPs  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:24:26pm

re: #83 VegasRick

Put a fork in Louisville.

Why?
BTW - how do you pronounce the capitol of Kentucky? Is it Looeeville or is it Lewisville……….hunh?

94 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:24:38pm

re: #92 HoosierHoops

Yup…I had Louisville and Pitt in the final..My record is perfect. I have never picked the winning team ever!
Think I’ll root for UConn now…

I’m rooting for UNC and Villinova.

95 HoosierHoops  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:25:15pm

re: #93 LGoPs

Why?
BTW - how do you pronounce the capitol of Kentucky? Is it Looeeville or is it Lewisville……….hunh?

Frankfurt
:)

96 VegasRick  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:25:28pm

re: #93 LGoPs

Why?
BTW - how do you pronounce the capitol of Kentucky? Is it Looeeville or is it Lewisville……….hunh?

down 64 - 49, 30 secs left. Subs are in the game now.

97 LGoPs  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:26:13pm

re: #95 HoosierHoops

Frankfurt
:)

Ya caught me. Dumb joke but I thought I’d give it a try…..
:)

98 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:26:29pm
Therefore Rosko needed to get a permit and insurance for the event. Rosko says she’s not willing to get insurance and accept liability for something that a stranger could do. Rosko told WINK News, “I have rescinded any organizing or supervision or what ever you want to call it over this tea party on April 1st.”

Who can blame her? I wouldn’t want to take responsibility for things some of these people might do either, especially with my money. If anyone wants to act like a freak at these protests, let them put up their own money.

99 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:26:40pm

re: #79 CyanSnowHawk

Hi Ginger.

100 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:26:44pm

re: #95 HoosierHoops

Frankfurt
:)

Frankfort

Frankfurt

101 Vero  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:26:52pm

re: #75 Nevergiveup

re: #78 Charles

Yes I would allow them (or anyone else ) to take issue with their government by ANY peaceful means. I would also be against a poll tax, voting tax, etc. but as I have already mentioned, that is just me.

I agree with you about 95% of the time, this ain’t one of those times.

102 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:26:52pm

re: #81 brookly red

Thanks, I wonder how it works in a protest/counter protest situation?

I believe San Francisco Voice for Israel gets a permit if we believe they’ll have a fairly large group. For things where it’s five guys and an Israeli flag standing across the street from the protestors, no. AFAIK. I don’t know about their insurance. Could ask.

103 brookly red  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:26:57pm

re: #91 Dianna

In San Francisco, both parties get permits and insurance.

Thanks…

I bet that could make for some interesting law suites.

104 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:27:21pm

re: #83 VegasRick

Put a fork in Louisville.

I can’t beleive it, after the way they looked Friday night

105 soxfan4life  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:27:28pm

re: #75 Nevergiveup

Spanish Court Considers Criminal Case Against Ex-Bush Officials
Court has agreed to consider opening a criminal case against six former Bush administration officials, including former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, over allegations they gave legal cover for torture at Guantanamo Bay.

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

How do you say Fuck You in Spanish?

I’d try doing it with a MOAB.

106 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:28:03pm

re: #90 Nevergiveup

Anyone see Magic Johnson in the audience. He looks like he has gained 100 lbs?

Probably a good thing. HIV and all.

107 Ariel  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:28:23pm

re: #21 Charles

FWIW, the US Supreme Court has held that fees that cover expected costs of policing are Constitutional. See, e.g., Cox v. New Hampshire. But more recently, the Court has held that a permit fee cannot be based on expenses to ensure order. See, e.g., Forsyth County, Georgia v. The Nationalist Movement.

The reasoning in the latter case was that it would financially burden and effectively ban the protest from happening. I’m not familiar of a case involving insurance, so I don’t know if this case would directly apply here, but I don’t think it’s obvious that it wouldn’t.

108 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:28:37pm

re: #102 SanFranciscoZionist

I believe San Francisco Voice for Israel gets a permit if we believe they’ll have a fairly large group. For things where it’s five guys and an Israeli flag standing across the street from the protestors, no. AFAIK. I don’t know about their insurance. Could ask.

I was under the impression they pretty much always got insurance - it’s cheaper than the alternative.

109 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:29:05pm

re: #75 Nevergiveup

Spanish Court Considers Criminal Case Against Ex-Bush Officials
Court has agreed to consider opening a criminal case against six former Bush administration officials, including former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, over allegations they gave legal cover for torture at Guantanamo Bay.

[Link: www.foxnews.com…]

How do you say Fuck You in Spanish?

In the Mexican dialect it’s chingaté.

110 turn  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:29:18pm

re: #106 unrealizedviewpoint

Probably a good thing. HIV and all.

I was going to comment on that, this guy seems to be doing fine considering he has had AIDS for so long.

111 VegasRick  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:29:21pm

re: #100 Thanos

Frankfort

Frankfurt

Capital of Massholefotosearch.com

112 Roses  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:29:29pm

Get a permit! Learn the rules, and follow them. Show the cities that these protests are peaceful and non-destructive. Don’t be like the Seattle WTO protestors. Do this RIGHT!

Then, take those Tea Parties and MARCH ON WASHINGTON D.C.

And if you can’t make it, let’s have a virtual March on DC - anybody have any ideas how to do that?

113 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:29:52pm

re: #108 Dianna

I was under the impression they pretty much always got insurance - it’s cheaper than the alternative.

Makes sense. I grew up in the Soviet Jewry movement, and we had it through the Bay Area Council.

114 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:30:08pm

re: #38 Charles

Wouldn’t she lose her money?

115 turn  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:30:27pm

re: #107 Ariel

That’s interesting …

116 livefreeor die  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:31:16pm

BBL

117 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:31:20pm

re: #110 turn

I was going to comment on that, this guy seems to be doing fine considering he has had AIDS for so long.

The some of the treatment available now is just amazing. And of course, I imagine he’s been getting state of the art care since he was diagnosed.

118 brookly red  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:31:21pm

re: #109 Sharmuta

In the Mexican dialect it’s chingaté.

i thought that was stewed chicken gizzards :)

119 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:31:28pm

re: #110 turn

I was going to comment on that, this guy seems to be doing fine considering he has had AIDS for so long.

He was diagnosed when the protease inhibitors were already in the pipeline, and he was in pretty good condition - his t-cell count was still high - as well. Magic Johnson got lucky, in so far as having HIV is lucky, in the timing.

Though the side effects of the drugs are pretty unpleasant, especially over the long term.

120 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:32:06pm

Russian President Dmitry Medvedev indicated he would not increase pressure on Iran over its nuclear program in exchange for the United States backing off on plans to deploy missile-defense elements in Eastern Europe.

jpost.com

Well when Obama made it clear he is going to shit can the system no matter what, why would you? Hell of a job Obama? Way to go?

121 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:32:10pm

re: #113 SanFranciscoZionist

Makes sense. I grew up in the Soviet Jewry movement, and we had it through the Bay Area Council.

That’s what I thought.

122 Killian Bundy  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:32:17pm

Turkey’s AK Party heading for clear poll win

Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan’s ruling AK Party was heading for a clear victory in Sunday’s local elections after nearly a quarter of the vote had been counted, according to private broadcasters.

The AK Party won 40.6 percent of the vote in provincial assemblies, CNN Turk and NTV said, a result that would hand Erdogan a fresh mandate to press on with political and economic reforms in the European Union candidate country.

/well, that’s not good news

123 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:32:33pm

re: #118 brookly red

i thought that was stewed chicken gizzards :)

No, that’s just what you say when you’re OFFERED stewed chicken gizzards.

124 LGoPs  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:32:59pm

re: #109 Sharmuta

re: #75 Nevergiveup

Spanish Court Considers Criminal Case Against Ex-Bush Officials
Court has agreed to consider opening a criminal case against six former Bush administration officials, including former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, over allegations they gave legal cover for torture at Guantanamo Bay.

[Link: foxnews.com…]

How do you say Fuck You in Spanish?


In the Mexican dialect it’s chingaté.

Tell them…”Tu Madre”……..

125 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:33:14pm

re: #114 Sharmuta

Wouldn’t she lose her money?

Insurance is a cost of doing business, in all senses. She’s being extraordinarily unprofessional in this.

126 turn  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:33:34pm

re: #117 SanFranciscoZionist

The some of the treatment available now is just amazing. And of course, I imagine he’s been getting state of the art care since he was diagnosed.

Yeah, I figured the same thing. I did’t realize basketball players had such a following or groupies until I heard about his lifestyle.

127 LGoPs  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:34:11pm

re: #118 brookly red

i thought that was stewed chicken gizzards :)

If Charles had chosen an avian motif we might all be called gizzards………
:)

128 gulfloafer  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:34:20pm

Anybody recall the story about the little girl and the lemonade stand issue in Florida? They take their permits seriously down there. /

129 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:34:26pm

re: #124 LGoPs

Tell them…”Tu Madre”……..

Is that something about their mother?

130 Ariel  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:34:40pm

re: #21 Charles

I should also mention that I have no real problem with the insurance requirement. I think the Supreme Court may be wrong on the issue of requiring more fees for speech that may involve damage to property. But as a matter of the law of the land, my opinion is not that relevant.

131 turn  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:34:50pm

re: #119 Dianna

Hopefully you’re not talking from experience.
/extreme sarc
Is it windy in SD?

132 turn  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:35:13pm

re: #131 turn

SJ turn

133 callahan23  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:35:14pm

re: #124 LGoPs

Tell them…”Tu Madre”……..

Have a look at my #85
“Chu Pamela”

134 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:35:23pm

re: #114 Sharmuta

Wouldn’t she lose her money?

When you buy insurance you don’t get the money back if the insurance isn’t used. It’s what you pay to be sure that you won’t be sued if someone breaks a leg or damages property.

135 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:35:27pm

re: #125 Dianna

I would think her problem might be shouldering the cost burden by herself. Let Lew Rockwell and paulbots get the insurance.

136 LGoPs  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:35:29pm

re: #129 Nevergiveup

Is that something about their mother?

Yes. In a very pejorative sense.

137 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:35:55pm

re: #110 turn

I was going to comment on that, this guy seems to be doing fine considering he has had AIDS for so long.

I’m pretty sure he has HIV and not AIDS.

138 brookly red  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:35:57pm

re: #127 LGoPs

If Charles had chosen an avian motif we might all be called gizzards………
:)

/My Grandfarther was not a boyd!

139 jorline  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:36:03pm

re: #11 brookly red

/ Hello, AIG ? yes, I wanted to some information on insuring an event… yes, OK… I will hold. :)

Put the premium on my stimulus tab.

140 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:36:04pm

re: #129 Nevergiveup

Is that something about their mother?

Yes. “Your mama”, basically.

141 LGoPs  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:36:20pm

re: #133 callahan23

Have a look at my #85
“Chu Pamela”

Well said.
:)

142 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:36:37pm

re: #136 LGoPs

Yes. In a very pejorative sense.

So if it’s used, I assume you better be ready to run or be very big?

143 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:36:46pm

re: #107 Ariel

FWIW, the US Supreme Court has held that fees that cover expected costs of policing are Constitutional. See, e.g., Cox v. New Hampshire. But more recently, the Court has held that a permit fee cannot be based on expenses to ensure order. See, e.g., Forsyth County, Georgia v. The Nationalist Movement.

The reasoning in the latter case was that it would financially burden and effectively ban the protest from happening. I’m not familiar of a case involving insurance, so I don’t know if this case would directly apply here, but I don’t think it’s obvious that it wouldn’t.

Interesting, thanks.

144 Vero  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:36:56pm

re: #86 unrealizedviewpoint

Reason is that i like this site (unlike Liberal sites ) is that we can have a discussion when we disagree without one of us calling the other names, accusing the other’s mother from being unwed when she gave birth, etc

I just happen to disagree. I know of not one single person who I went to the Cincinnati Tea Party with become even close to being non-respectful of other folks and property - Sorry, but we will just agree to disagree - regardless of what I feel, those folks will need insurance is the bottom line - Too bad there wasn’t a way to contribute funds for us to make it happen.

145 DistantThunder  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:37:28pm

re: #98 Sharmuta

Who can blame her? I wouldn’t want to take responsibility for things some of these people might do either, especially with my money. If anyone wants to act like a freak at these protests, let them put up their own money.

I don’t blame her either when we have not only a litigious society, but political enemies that would like to monkeywrench the operation. The counter protest is a great idea. Maybe these protests should happen in conjunction with official city events so that the insurance is already in place.

i would like to know if all those protestors in Colorado at the RNC convention - the anarchists took out permits and had insurance.

146 LGoPs  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:37:56pm

re: #133 callahan23

Have a look at my #85
“Chu Pamela”

Since the age of Clinton, this might be appropriately rephrased as ”Chu Monica”…..
:)

147 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:38:12pm

re: #134 Charles

When you buy insurance you don’t get the money back if the insurance isn’t used. It’s what you pay to be sure that you won’t be sued if someone breaks a leg or damages property.

Thanks. I would also not get the insurance then. The Tea Parties can find another way to provide insurance without the cost being placed on a lone organizer.

148 brookly red  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:38:16pm

re: #139 jorline

Put the premium on my stimulus tab.

what do all owe at this point? 200, 300 K ?

149 Dan G.  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:38:18pm

I graduated high school from Cape Coral High School. There are ACRES of flat, unused, unimproved land to hold such a gathering that would be beyond the scope of the city council (i.e. the park is within the council’s scope).

150 LGoPs  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:38:26pm

re: #142 Nevergiveup

So if it’s used, I assume you better be ready to run or be very big?

Big time.

151 callahan23  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:38:45pm

re: #146 LGoPs

Since the age of Clinton, this might be appropriately rephrased as ”Chu Monica”…..
:)

ROTFLMAO

152 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:39:02pm

re: #131 turn

Hopefully you’re not talking from experience.
/extreme sarc
Is it windy in SD?

No, but like SFZionist, I know a lot about it. Too many people we know have HIV for us not to.

Yes, it’s blowing here; and it’s a pretty chill wind.

153 HoosierHoops  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:39:10pm

re: #147 Sharmuta

Thanks. I would also not get the insurance then. The Tea Parties can find another way to provide insurance without the cost being placed on a lone organizer.

They might consider organizing on the Internet..

154 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:40:24pm

Tiger only 1 back on the 7th—he already made up 5 strokes

155 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:40:39pm

re: #135 Sharmuta

I would think her problem might be shouldering the cost burden by herself. Let Lew Rockwell and paulbots get the insurance.

She should ask the main organizers, and use the contact list she’s probably built up. She can definitely get contributions and advice.

If you’re the organizer, you get the insurance. That’s how it works.

156 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:41:19pm

re: #142 Nevergiveup

So if it’s used, I assume you better be ready to run or be very big?

Depends. My students think I go deaf when they speak Spanish, and I have heard some of the most foul stuff coming out of their cute little mouths, with no one involved being offended. (I suppose if you’re a fourteen year old boy, losing it when a very cute little girl says “Chinga tu madre”, or refers to you as ‘hijo de la gran puta’ is counterproductive.)

But man to man, on the street, I’d steer clear…very clear…do not mention the mother of any Latino you know unless you have met her personally, in which case she is “Senora Gonzalez, que Dios la bendiga”. (Sorry, don’t know where accent marks are on this machine.)

157 HoosierHoops  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:41:30pm

re: #154 Nevergiveup

Tiger only 1 back on the 7th—he already made up 5 strokes

Wow! Thanks!

158 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:42:12pm

This isn’t rocket science or hard to do. The public park/building/location or city usually has a one page form, and you get the insurance through them…

159 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:42:33pm

re: #153 HoosierHoops

They might consider organizing on the Internet..

Are the Tea Parties an actual organization, or is this a loose grass roots movement without any organizational structure?

160 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:42:33pm

re: #144 Vero

Reason is that i like this site (unlike Liberal sites ) is that we can have a discussion when we disagree without one of us calling the other names, accusing the other’s mother from being unwed when she gave birth, etc

I just happen to disagree. I know of not one single person who I went to the Cincinnati Tea Party with become even close to being non-respectful of other folks and property - Sorry, but we will just agree to disagree - regardless of what I feel, those folks will need insurance is the bottom line - Too bad there wasn’t a way to contribute funds for us to make it happen.

All she has to do, probably, is ask.

I repeat, she’s being extremely unprofessional.

161 jorline  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:43:08pm

re: #148 brookly red

what do all owe at this point? 200, 300 K ?

Sorry, we need more zeros…since the number trillion is being tossed around so loosely now days.
//

162 turn  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:43:21pm

re: #137 unrealizedviewpoint

I’m pretty sure he has HIV and not AIDS.

re: #152 Dianna

No, but like SFZionist, I know a lot about it. Too many people we know have HIV for us not to.

Yes, it’s blowing here; and it’s a pretty chill wind.

We had a neighbor who died from AIDS. Long story short he was my doctor and actually took me and the turnwife’s blood sample when we got married. He and his partner ran a clinic here in sac and both died from it.

163 brookly red  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:43:41pm

re: #161 jorline

Sorry, we need more zeros…since the number trillion is being tossed around so loosely now days.
//

I meant EACH.

164 DistantThunder  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:43:41pm

This coming up is a good thing, because it was bound to happen anyway. Insurance really does protect the organizers. Somebody has to be the brave organizing soul.

I started a neighborhood Organization in San Jose when I had 5 small children. i was dumb enough to apply and receive a foundation grant, but when the city folks showed up they said I didn’t have any black people in attendance and that was a concern. In my entire neighborhood, a bedroom community next to IBM there was exactly one elderly black woman, everyone else was white, japanese, vientnamese and Hispanic.

Luckily one of the city workers was an old japanese guy who just ripped into the young white liberal and told her that she was being ridiculous.

165 Spar Kling  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:43:45pm

Excellent! So, how much money do you think LGF will have to pay for “libel insurance” once the Obama administration gets the idea?

I think about $10,000 a week would make them happy. What do you think?

-sk

166 vagabond trader  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:44:41pm

Hmmm, I smell a minor capitalistic opportunity here.How to seminars for fledgling protest groups.

167 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:45:20pm

re: #162 turn

We had a neighbor who died from AIDS. Long story short he was my doctor and actually took me and the turnwife’s blood sample when we got married. He and his partner ran a clinic here in sac and both died from it.

A lot of people died before the treatments got really good. I recall 1993 as particularly miserable.

168 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:45:20pm

re: #155 Dianna

She should ask the main organizers, and use the contact list she’s probably built up. She can definitely get contributions and advice.

If you’re the organizer, you get the insurance. That’s how it works.

That’s what I’m wondering. Who are the national organizers? Is there a chairman? A board of directors? Why didn’t she contact them? Perhaps it’s because there isn’t an organized national committee? If so- than it’s a little ironic in that a lack of leadership is exactly the problem of the right at this moment.

169 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:45:20pm

re: #162 turn

We had a neighbor who died from AIDS. Long story short he was my doctor and actually took me and the turnwife’s blood sample when we got married. He and his partner ran a clinic here in sac and both died from it.

Sorry to hear that. There’s been a lot of good people lost over the years.

170 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:45:35pm
171 Killian Bundy  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:45:40pm

re: #165 Spar Kling

Excellent! So, how much money do you think LGF will have to pay for “libel insurance” once the Obama administration gets the idea?

/it’s almost impossible to defame public figures, so don’t worry about it

172 DistantThunder  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:45:43pm

re: #162 turn

We had a neighbor who died from AIDS. Long story short he was my doctor and actually took me and the turnwife’s blood sample when we got married. He and his partner ran a clinic here in sac and both died from it.

Mr DT and not just one but two separate bosses that died of AIDS - both gay. One had been married for 25 years with 5 daughters - a gold chain wearing italian macho type. He paid the ultimate price.

173 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:46:04pm

re: #144 Vero

Reason is that i like this site (unlike Liberal sites ) is that we can have a discussion when we disagree without one of us calling the other names, accusing the other’s mother from being unwed when she gave birth, etc

I just happen to disagree. I know of not one single person who I went to the Cincinnati Tea Party with become even close to being non-respectful of other folks and property - Sorry, but we will just agree to disagree - regardless of what I feel, those folks will need insurance is the bottom line - Too bad there wasn’t a way to contribute funds for us to make it happen.

I’m sure you’re right, for your group. Unfortunately, your group may not be representative of other groups. Insurance, its purpose, is to protect against the potentiality of loss. Certainly you cannot vouch for others, or pay their debt.

174 brookly red  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:46:16pm

re: #166 vagabond trader

Hmmm, I smell a minor capitalistic opportunity here.How to seminars for fledgling protest groups.

I think ACORN will have yer legs busted. :)

175 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:46:27pm

re: #147 Sharmuta

Thanks. I would also not get the insurance then. The Tea Parties can find another way to provide insurance without the cost being placed on a lone organizer.

I have no doubt that the organizer can find other like-minded folk with which to share the financial burden. I can’t believe that all of this falls on the shoulders of one lone organizer. It may require more behind the scenes organizing, but the effort would be worth it if it means making this event a reality.

176 jorline  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:46:31pm

re: #163 brookly red

I meant EACH.

Oh…that will work.

Party on Garth!

177 DistantThunder  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:47:42pm

re: #168 Sharmuta

That’s what I’m wondering. Who are the national organizers? Is there a chairman? A board of directors? Why didn’t she contact them? Perhaps it’s because there isn’t an organized national committee? If so- than it’s a little ironic in that a lack of leadership is exactly the problem of the right at this moment.

This is mainly a grass roots effort. But there is a website - The New American Tea Party

178 KingKenrod  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:47:58pm

New article at Newsweek by Christoper Hitchens about the changes in Texas schools regarding evolution:

newsweek.com

179 HoosierHoops  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:48:19pm

re: #166 vagabond trader

Hmmm, I smell a minor capitalistic opportunity here.How to seminars for fledgling protest groups.

Buying a protesting for Dummies book would be helpful..
Chapter 8 ’ What Chicago taught us ’ covers insurance issues in depth
/

180 turn  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:48:24pm

re: #169 SanFranciscoZionist

Yes, it was sad. Harvy was gay and a really fun guy, we loved to go to his parties. Talk about a fish out of the pond though …

181 Dan G.  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:48:56pm

re: #170 buzzsawmonkey

I agree. I also think that the choice of Tea Party is a bad one, the original Tea Party was relevant to the problem they were protesting, not some hollow symbolic gesture.

182 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:48:56pm

re: #168 Sharmuta

That’s what I’m wondering. Who are the national organizers? Is there a chairman? A board of directors? Why didn’t she contact them? Perhaps it’s because there isn’t an organized national committee? If so- than it’s a little ironic in that a lack of leadership is exactly the problem of the right at this moment.

Sharmuta, I really think she’s just not up to speed on how this sort of thing is done, and has gone stubborn about learning.

The problem is that the Tea Party idea is amorphous, and I’m not seeing any kind of central organization at all. Just volunteers, and not all are going to be hyper-competent.

This woman, clearly, is in over her head, and whinging, rather than trying to learn. She should step aside, or ask for help.

In any case, I’m not going to defend her. She’s in the wrong, and that’s all there is to it.

183 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:49:55pm

re: #175 eclectic infidel

I have no doubt that the organizer can find other like-minded folk with which to share the financial burden. I can’t believe that all of this falls on the shoulders of one lone organizer. It may require more behind the scenes organizing, but the effort would be worth it if it means making this event a reality.

Perhaps the participants should be charged a fee for coming. So you think they would be as large then if people had to cough up five buck a person to cover their own insurance?

184 DistantThunder  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:49:57pm

Leadership is not an easy thing.

185 DisturbedEma  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:50:07pm

OT- Has it been shown/supported that Edwards is that baby’s dad?

186 turn  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:50:13pm

re: #172 DistantThunder

Mr DT and not just one but two separate bosses that died of AIDS - both gay. One had been married for 25 years with 5 daughters - a gold chain wearing italian macho type. He paid the ultimate price.

That’s sad. My uncle was gay and lived in Berkley since the sixties, I’m still dumbfounded he didn’t die of AIDS.

187 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:50:37pm

Off topic:

any lizards know where I can find the html code to embed LGF headlines?

is there a way to send a fellow lizard a message - you know like an IM of sorts?

188 KingKenrod  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:50:38pm

I think Lynn Rosko wanted to protest a local tax issue (a utility tax hike) and things quickly got out of hand for her.

cape-coral-daily-breeze.com

Can’t some local businesses step up and help with the costs?

189 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:51:23pm

re: #177 DistantThunder

This is mainly a grass roots effort. But there is a website - The New American Tea Party

Seems there’s no structure like a board of directors or chairman.

190 DisturbedEma  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:51:58pm

re: #172 DistantThunder

Mr DT and not just one but two separate bosses that died of AIDS - both gay. One had been married for 25 years with 5 daughters - a gold chain wearing italian macho type. He paid the ultimate price.

Too true…I still remember Ryan White…

191 DistantThunder  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:52:06pm

There should be bumpersticker and T-shirt sales. Remember Dan’s bake sale and the thousands of dollars he raised?

80,000 people showed up.

192 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:52:18pm

re: #183 Sharmuta

Perhaps the participants should be charged a fee for coming. So you think they would be as large then if people had to cough up five buck a person to cover their own insurance?

A donations jar will easily cover the cost.

I repeat, if the leftists can do this, so can the Tea Party people. It’s not all that hard.

193 rusty_armor  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:52:31pm

Maybe they could all just tweet each other to show up at such and such a time. Then it would merely be a gathering of people and not officially a “Parade” …

194 pat  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:52:38pm

re: #185 DisturbedEma

yep

195 DisturbedEma  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:53:02pm

re: #186 turn

That’s sad. My uncle was gay and lived in Berkley since the sixties, I’m still dumbfounded he didn’t die of AIDS.


I have a few male friends, gay and straight who have said that…about themselves before they passed away…

196 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:53:18pm

Fargo mayor: More levees will be breached

apnews.myway.com

Is Spike lee gonna make a movie blaming the present VP for blowing the Levees? I know the VP and Blow are were used in the same sentence some where?
/ as sarcastic as I can be

197 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:53:28pm

re: #192 Dianna

A donations jar will easily cover the cost.

I repeat, if the leftists can do this, so can the Tea Party people. It’s not all that hard.

And I don’t disagree, but if if I was suddenly told I had to shoulder the cost burden, I would say . “f*ck it” too.

198 DisturbedEma  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:54:03pm

re: #196 Nevergiveup

Fargo mayor: More levees will be breached

[Link: apnews.myway.com…]

Is Spike lee gonna make a movie blaming the present VP for blowing the Levees? I know the VP and Blow are were used in the same sentence some where?
/ as sarcastic as I can be


Are we gonna NAME this one?

199 DistantThunder  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:54:19pm

I’m having an argument with my daughter about cleaning her room. She has a foot of clothes in there on the floor. She says she can find them easier that way. Sigh.

I’m feeling much better today. I hope Charles is feeling better too.

200 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:54:27pm

re: #197 Sharmuta

And I don’t disagree, but if if I was suddenly told I had to shoulder the cost burden, I would say . “f*ck it” too.

Maybe. But I don’t tend to jump into things without looking, first.

201 LGoPs  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:54:45pm

re: #181 Dan G.

I agree. I also think that the choice of Tea Party is a bad one, the original Tea Party was relevant to the problem they were protesting, not some hollow symbolic gesture.

I don’t agree. Like it or not the American public is in thrall to symbolism, mainly since that is the primary tool of the left and has infected public discourse for many years now. The concept of a Tea Party is understandable to those that have a minimalist grasp of American history and can resonate with them in what it represents.
It should be conducted maturely and within the law but the bottom line is that something needs to be done to start focusing attention on the fact that there is another side opposed to the leftists agenda.

202 nyc redneck  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:55:06pm

it will be interesting to see what happens if people show up anyway.
i bet some will.

203 turn  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:55:08pm

re: #195 DisturbedEma

I have a few male friends, gay and straight who have said that…about themselves before they passed away…

I loved uncle Lee. Still rember the day he handed my dad $3000 in cash to help pay his sister’s hospital bills (mom died of cancer).

204 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:55:28pm

re: #199 DistantThunder

I’m having an argument with my daughter about cleaning her room. She has a foot of clothes in there on the floor. She says she can find them easier that way. Sigh.

I’m feeling much better today. I hope Charles is feeling better too.

My oldest daughter is a neat freak. If you leave your door open, you’ll come back to find your room as neat as a pin.

205 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:55:29pm
206 The Other Les  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:55:30pm

re: #85 callahan23

Chupa me la pija. (Suck my d***)

From a short story by Gordon R. Dickson:

¡Su madre!

207 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:55:35pm

re: #198 DisturbedEma

Are we gonna NAME this one?

River floods don’t normally get names, do they?

208 DistantThunder  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:55:38pm

I think we need to adopt broken shackles as a symbol for breaking the shackles of debt.

209 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:55:53pm

How to turn your Tea Party into a money making scam.
Update: The donations page says all money goes to “the Tax Revolt Billboard”. According to google no such thing exists.

210 DistantThunder  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:56:09pm

re: #204 Nevergiveup

My oldest daughter is a neat freak. If you leave your door open, you’ll come back to find your room as neat as a pin.

OOh, I’m jealous. how did you train her that way? i think I’ve failed.

211 brookly red  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:56:27pm

re: #192 Dianna

A donations jar will easily cover the cost.

I repeat, if the leftists can do this, so can the Tea Party people. It’s not all that hard.

That would be like taking personal responsibility… a protest with-in a protest.

212 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:56:58pm

re: #210 DistantThunder

OOh, I’m jealous. how did you train her that way? i think I’ve failed.

If we did, we failed with her younger sister who is a pig?

213 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:57:11pm

re: #210 DistantThunder

OOh, I’m jealous. how did you train her that way? i think I’ve failed.

I swear, I think some of that is just genetic.

214 The Other Les  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:57:15pm

re: #112 Roses

Get a permit! Learn the rules, and follow them. Show the cities that these protests are peaceful and non-destructive. Don’t be like the Seattle WTO protestors. Do this RIGHT!

Then, take those Tea Parties and MARCH ON WASHINGTON D.C.

And if you can’t make it, let’s have a virtual March on DC - anybody have any ideas how to do that?

I’d want to do an actual march on Washington on Independence Day.

215 Dan G.  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:57:17pm

re: #201 LGoPs

Without a more sound basis, this movement will be a flash in the pan. I agree with the sentiment, but not the action taken. I want something more substantive and if I figure out what exactly that would be I’ll definitely share.

216 Emerald  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:57:34pm

re: #14 DistantThunder

But what if the cost for the insurance is prohibitive. How does that then iinfringe on the right to peaceable assembly as stated in the constitution?

As others have pointed out, insurance is easy to get for these things and not prohibitive. It does take an ounce of common sense and preparedness, though, to get all the ducks in a row before the event.

The conspiracy charges hurt the movement. Getting the insurance is not a big deal. Crazy loons manage to do this small amount of legwork to have their gatherings. If the crazy loons are more organized than the tea party folks, it doesn’t say a lot of about them.

217 DistantThunder  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:57:42pm

I willing to have her hypnotized - or myself so that I just don’t notice the mess.

218 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:57:46pm

re: #183 Sharmuta

Perhaps the participants should be charged a fee for coming. So you think they would be as large then if people had to cough up five buck a person to cover their own insurance?

If this event is as important as it seems to be to a specific group of people, and insurance is mandatory in order for it to happen, charging a nominal fee probably isn’t going to be a big deal. I mean, I get the impression that the tea parties, though grassroot in origin, are symptomatic of a need for real change regarding taxation. I could be wrong, as I am not intimately involved in this particular political scene of course.

219 HoosierHoops  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:57:55pm

re: #207 SanFranciscoZionist

River floods don’t normally get names, do they?

All I’ve heard of is the hundred year flood..
or a year..like the flood of 72

220 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:57:56pm

re: #209 Killgore Trout

How to turn your Tea Party into a money making scam.
Update: The donations page says all money goes to “the Tax Revolt Billboard”. According to google no such thing exists.

It was bound to happen.

221 DisturbedEma  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:58:01pm

re: #196 Nevergiveup

Fargo mayor: More levees will be breached

[Link: apnews.myway.com…]

Is Spike lee gonna make a movie blaming the present VP for blowing the Levees? I know the VP and Blow are were used in the same sentence some where?
/ as sarcastic as I can be

I have spent a fair amount of time in ND- you are not gonna have too many of them living in hotels on the government…

222 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:58:21pm

For all we know, this lady is a working class woman without the resources to pony up the money for insurance. Someone else can step up, pony up the money and the protest can go forward.

I think this is a good thing, BTW. This movement needs better structure and overall organization. I’m sure one of the founding parties of this grassroots movement can see to it that this effort is better coordinated. That is- if they feel this is something worth doing right.

Grassroots doesn’t mean anarchy, and no centralized power structure. The Tea Parties better figure out now how to best control their own movement.

223 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:58:26pm

Now reading the Christopher Hitchens piece in Slate that Disturbed Ema (I think) mentioned earlier.

I’m now nauseated. Officially.

224 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:58:41pm

re: #200 Dianna

Maybe. But I don’t tend to jump into things without looking, first.

Not everyone is as thoughtful as you.

225 DistantThunder  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:58:42pm

re: #216 Emerald

As others have pointed out, insurance is easy to get for these things and not prohibitive. It does take an ounce of common sense and preparedness, though, to get all the ducks in a row before the event.

The conspiracy charges hurt the movement. Getting the insurance is not a big deal. Crazy loons manage to do this small amount of legwork to have their gatherings. If the crazy loons are more organized than the tea party folks, it doesn’t say a lot of about them.

I think this is part of a natural learning curve for conservatives. most of us have never had to protest. I think we should have been protesting long before this.

226 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:58:45pm

re: #219 HoosierHoops

All I’ve heard of is the hundred year flood..
or a year..like the flood of 72

Or after the name of a city. What was that flood in PA, the Johnstown Flood?

227 engrpat  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:58:54pm

Oh sure we have the right to assemble and protest provided we have the necessary permits and insurance. Didn’t read that in the Constitution must be a new clause. I would just show up in the area anyway, I do have a right to be there.

228 DisturbedEma  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:59:04pm

re: #203 turn

I loved uncle Lee. Still rember the day he handed my dad $3000 in cash to help pay his sister’s hospital bills (mom died of cancer).

a true mensch…I am sorry for the loss…

229 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:59:30pm

re: #219 HoosierHoops

All I’ve heard of is the hundred year flood..
or a year..like the flood of 72

Someone referred to this one as a ‘five hundred year’ flood.

National Guard is already on the ground. I guess at this point we just pray.

230 DisturbedEma  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:59:38pm

re: #223 SanFranciscoZionist

Now reading the Christopher Hitchens piece in Slate that Disturbed Ema (I think) mentioned earlier.

I’m now nauseated. Officially.

sorry about that…

231 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:59:45pm

re: #199 DistantThunder

I’m having an argument with my daughter about cleaning her room. She has a foot of clothes in there on the floor. She says she can find them easier that way. Sigh.

That’s some logic she’s presenting. Liberal in the making.

232 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 1:59:53pm

re: #220 Dianna

Yeah, probably.

233 DistantThunder  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:00:23pm

re: #229 SanFranciscoZionist

Someone referred to this one as a ‘five hundred year’ flood.

National Guard is already on the ground. I guess at this point we just pray.

I think Obama is putting dynamite charges at the bottom of the levees so that he can blow them sky high! LOL

234 turn  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:00:26pm

Well turn has to get going. Been nice chatting, I don’t log on weekends much. Going to have to try and find more time. These home projects are keeeeling meeee! Take care all … What, a Windows PC worm? Have to check that out tomorrow AM.

235 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:00:29pm

re: #1 Dianna

Even ANSWER gets permits and insurance. They budget for it.

The Tea Party organizers need to do exactly the same thing.

The Tea Party organizers are not funded by Soros.

236 Dan G.  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:00:32pm

re: #205 buzzsawmonkey

I agree. The consequences we are facing is due to a void (in most people’s heads).

237 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:01:12pm

Tiger saved par with a 9 foot put. He has ice water in his veins.

238 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:01:14pm

re: #224 Sharmuta

Not everyone is as thoughtful as you.

I’m impulsive, sometimes, but I recognize that - when I act on impulse - I still own the consequences.

However, I must ask: who organizes a protest on impulse?

239 DistantThunder  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:01:18pm

re: #231 unrealizedviewpoint

That’s some logic she’s presenting. Liberal in the making.

I’d have to smother her with a pillow if I thought that was happening. Partial liberal birth abortion.

240 DistantThunder  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:02:34pm

My daughter is attending the San Diego State University, and so that she isn’t indoctrinated, I send her Thomas Sowell articles on a regular basis. I figure that it’s liberal innoculation.

241 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:03:02pm

re: #232 Killgore Trout

Yeah, probably.

It’s the old, “there’s a sucker born every minute.” The best any of us can do is try not to be one too often.

242 HoosierHoops  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:03:23pm

re: #237 Nevergiveup

Tiger saved par with a 9 foot put. He has ice water in his veins.

I wish they had TigerCam.. A camera on his golf bag.. That’s all I’d watch..

243 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:03:24pm

re: #230 DisturbedEma

sorry about that…

Better to know..than not to know…

/running toward bathroom…

244 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:03:48pm

re: #243 SanFranciscoZionist

Better to know..than not to know…

/running toward bathroom…

Gotta link?

245 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:04:00pm

re: #238 Dianna

I’m impulsive, sometimes, but I recognize that - when I act on impulse - I still own the consequences.

However, I must ask: who organizes a protest on impulse?

This is a national grassroots movement, so who exactly is heading this up on a national level? I’ve looked at a couple of tea party websites now, and I don’t see any specific names. Is there a national office? Who are these people? Why aren’t they helping Ms. Rosko?

246 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:04:06pm

re: #235 Alouette

The Tea Party organizers are not funded by Soros.

No, but this really, really, doesn’t seem that hard.

247 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:04:14pm

re: #242 HoosierHoops

I wish they had TigerCam.. A camera on his golf bag.. That’s all I’d watch..

Why would you want to watch his golf bag !?!?!?

248 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:05:00pm

re: #235 Alouette

The Tea Party organizers are not funded by Soros.

I’ve worked over the years with a dozen organizations that weren’t funded by anyone especially wealthy. This is doable. It’s a minor setback that it sounds like some of the organizers weren’t ready for, but they will figure it out.

249 Athos  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:05:29pm

re: #80 turn

I hadn’t heard anything about them not turning up, but I would venture to say that their presence would have been low-key - watching from the periphery in the event the march got out of hand. I do hope that they were there - as it is a very bad precedent to create ‘no-go’ areas or times when the police are ordered to stay away.

We aren’t getting heavy winds or Santa Ana’s today. Other than being about 12-15 degrees cooler than yesterday, its a nice day.

250 Spar Kling  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:05:38pm

re: #171 Killian Bundy

/it’s almost impossible to defame public figures, so don’t worry about it

I’m not worried about it. I simply dislike that “inalienable” rights and freedoms that supposedly cannot be infringed on can be taxed or regulated out of existence. So, we have freedom of assembly, but to exercise it, we must submit a request form (that can be denied) and buy insurance (that can also be denied or priced high in the future), and possibly even rent police. We can violate zoning regulations by holding a political meeting in a private home.

The fact of the matter is that your freedoms are now granted to you at the pleasure of government agencies. You might consider that your rights and freedoms are God-given, but until God makes a fuss about it or a “gun” is held to their heads, government officials really don’t care what you think your rights are. I hear about rights violations all the time regarding social workers, school superintendents, and homeschooling families.

-sk

251 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:05:46pm

re: #235 Alouette

The Tea Party organizers are not funded by Soros.

ANSWER has specific names and a national office in contrast to the tea parties.

252 MarineMomSue  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:06:05pm

re: #137 unrealizedviewpoint

I’m pretty sure he has HIV and not AIDS.

That was my understand also. I thought he’d retired from the NBA because he learned he was HIV positive. I never heard his condition had progressed to what they used to call ‘full blown’ AIDS.

253 hammerspawn  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:06:13pm

Can someone tell me what insurance agency Sam Adams used when he ran the original Tea Party? Was he required to use a Crown approved agent and fill out his permit in triplicate?

If you are going up against entrenched power you do not ask permission.
Just my opinion….

254 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:06:22pm

re: #245 Sharmuta

This is a national grassroots movement, so who exactly is heading this up on a national level? I’ve looked at a couple of tea party websites now, and I don’t see any specific names. Is there a national office? Who are these people? Why aren’t they helping Ms. Rosko?

So far as I can tell - and like you, I’m just looking at websites - it’s not really organized, and that is a problem. There should at least be people standing by to give advice and publish a FAQ.

As to why they’re not helping Ms. Rosko? I suspect she hasn’t asked.

255 DistantThunder  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:06:23pm

re: #245 Sharmuta

This is a national grassroots movement, so who exactly is heading this up on a national level? I’ve looked at a couple of tea party websites now, and I don’t see any specific names. Is there a national office? Who are these people? Why aren’t they helping Ms. Rosko?

It makes sense to me. One of the strategies of the opposition is decapitation - going after the leaders. I heard the woman from New American Tea Party on Hannity, and she talked about her site. Everyone is new, and I don’t think experienced. I think the democrat operatives have the long knives out. It does paint a target.

256 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:06:26pm

re: #244 Alouette

Gotta link?

Read at your own risk.

257 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:06:36pm

re: #240 DistantThunder

My daughter is attending the San Diego State University, and so that she isn’t indoctrinated, I send her Thomas Sowell articles on a regular basis. I figure that it’s liberal innoculation.

Your parenting was probably enough vaccination.

258 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:06:46pm

re: #242 HoosierHoops

I wish they had TigerCam.. A camera on his golf bag.. That’s all I’d watch..

I wish i had split screen so I can watch tiger and the UNC game at the same time.
Tip off.

259 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:06:55pm
260 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:07:04pm

re: #238 Dianna

I’m impulsive, sometimes, but I recognize that - when I act on impulse - I still own the consequences.

However, I must ask: who organizes a protest on impulse?

Very upset people.

261 Vicious Babushka  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:07:12pm

re: #251 Sharmuta

ANSWER has specific names and a national office in contrast to the tea parties.

They also have professional demonstrators who travel from protest to protest.

262 DistantThunder  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:07:18pm

re: #250 Spar Kling

I’m not worried about it. I simply dislike that “inalienable” rights and freedoms that supposedly cannot be infringed on can be taxed or regulated out of existence. So, we have freedom of assembly, but to exercise it, we must submit a request form (that can be denied) and buy insurance (that can also be denied or priced high in the future), and possibly even rent police. We can violate zoning regulations by holding a political meeting in a private home.

The fact of the matter is that your freedoms are now granted to you at the pleasure of government agencies. You might consider that your rights and freedoms are God-given, but until God makes a fuss about it or a “gun” is held to their heads, government officials really don’t care what you think your rights are. I hear about rights violations all the time regarding social workers, school superintendents, and homeschooling families.

-sk

I don’t think the founding fathers intended these restrictions at all.

263 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:07:31pm

re: #257 unrealizedviewpoint

Your parenting was probably enough vaccination.

It wasn’t enough for Ronald Reagan Jr.!

264 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:07:45pm

re: #252 MarineMomSue

That was my understand also. I thought he’d retired from the NBA because he learned he was HIV positive. I never heard his condition had progressed to what they used to call ‘full blown’ AIDS.

It hasn’t. Which is a very good thing for him.

265 HoosierHoops  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:07:47pm

re: #258 Nevergiveup

I wish i had split screen so I can watch tiger and the UNC game at the same time.
Tip off.

I’m Tivo’ng Tiger

266 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:08:19pm

re: #261 Alouette

My point is we need to learn how to organize ourselves. So far I’m seeing EPIC FAIL.

267 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:08:20pm

re: #263 sattv4u2

It wasn’t enough for Ronald Reagan Jr.!

But his mother is half a nut.

268 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:08:50pm

BBIAW

269 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:08:51pm
270 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:08:52pm

re: #253 hammerspawn

Can someone tell me what insurance agency Sam Adams used when he ran the original Tea Party? Was he required to use a Crown approved agent and fill out his permit in triplicate?

If you are going up against entrenched power you do not ask permission.
Just my opinion….

A vandal and a robber isn’t going to get insurance.

You may approve of his action, but you don’t get to pretend it was legal, or not a violation of others’ property rights.

271 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:08:52pm

re: #265 HoosierHoops

I’m Tivo’ng Tiger

So do you want me to keep my mouth shut about that?

272 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:09:06pm

Walkies time.

273 kaziggy2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:09:13pm

re: #227 engrpat

I totally agree with you. If a bunch of people just “show up” with signs and no one really has any speeches or such, what can they do? We do have the right to “be”there. I think there was probably no problems with insurance untill city/county leaders started to see how big this movement is getting.

274 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:09:18pm

re: #253 hammerspawn

If you are going up against entrenched power you do not ask permission.

Yes, the evil entrenched power of the Cape Coral city government. They’re notorious.

/gimme a break

275 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:09:20pm

re: #258 Nevergiveup

I wish i had split screen so I can watch tiger and the UNC game at the same time.
Tip off.

ahhh ,,, it’s good to be at work

Right now, I’m watching Golf, UNC/ Okla, NASCAR, Bulls/ Raptors NBA, Celtics pre-game, Soccer,,, and a few more

276 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:09:51pm

re: #255 DistantThunder

It makes sense to me. One of the strategies of the opposition is decapitation - going after the leaders. I heard the woman from New American Tea Party on Hannity, and she talked about her site. Everyone is new, and I don’t think experienced. I think the democrat operatives have the long knives out. It does paint a target.

A leaderless ship is going to run aground. The tea party people have to step up. If they’re too cowardly to do so, then what does that say?

277 SouthTexas  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:10:01pm

First Amendment?

278 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:10:26pm

re: #253 hammerspawn

re: #274 Charles

Yes, the evil entrenched power of the Cape Coral city government. They’re notorious.

/gimme a break

BIG CAPE CORAL IS RIPPING US OFF!

279 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:10:57pm

Go Tarheels 7-0

280 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:11:04pm

re: #277 SouthTexas

First Amendment?

Second Base!

281 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:12:06pm

re: #280 sattv4u2

Second Base!

bare breast?

282 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:12:10pm

Wasn’t the first Tea Party a bunch of vandals who polluted Boston Harbor? Maybe insurance isn’t a bad idea.

283 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:12:34pm

re: #281 Nevergiveup

bare breast?

FINALLY ,,,,Boob Thread

284 rightymouse  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:12:35pm

re: #167 Dianna

A lot of people died before the treatments got really good. I recall 1993 as particularly miserable.

I lost a friend back in 1984 to HIV. He wound up with Kaposi’s Sarcoma, then was hospitalized with pneumonia. We barely knew about HIV/AIDs at the time except we did know it was a death sentence. He told me what he had and my heart broke for him. He died at his mother’s home. Was in his early 30’s at the time.

285 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:12:53pm

re: #282 unrealizedviewpoint

Wasn’t the first Tea Party a bunch of vandals who polluted Boston Harbor? Maybe insurance isn’t a bad idea.

Weren’t they insured by the Paul Revere Company?

286 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:13:10pm

Just speaking for myself. I wouldn’t bear the cost burden alone, and if there was no national office for me to turn to to get help, I would resign my position as head organizer too.

I think Ms Resko is taking the heat here, but she’s not the one who should be. The real responsibility lies on the national organizers of this grassroots movement to organize themselves, and get better coordinated.

287 DeepThroat  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:13:28pm

re: #78 Charles

What do you disagree with? You think they should be allowed to demonstrate without a permit and insurance?

Would you say the same thing if this was an International ANSWER demonstration?

I don’t believe that is the issue.

She did in fact have a permit, it was rescinded and then she was told to get insurance.

288 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:13:31pm

re: #283 sattv4u2

FINALLY ,,,,Boob Thread

I gather if you put on the wrong tape, we could have one all over America?

289 Bloodnok  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:13:37pm

re: #285 Nevergiveup

Weren’t they insured by the Paul Revere Company?

That’s salada insurance.

290 nyc redneck  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:13:45pm

re: #255 DistantThunder

It makes sense to me. One of the strategies of the opposition is decapitation - going after the leaders. I heard the woman from New American Tea Party on Hannity, and she talked about her site. Everyone is new, and I don’t think experienced. I think the democrat operatives have the long knives out. It does paint a target.

you make a very good point. remember how during the campaign several elected
officials in st. louis were threatening to go after any one who slandered o.
iirc the county sheriff was in on it too. talk abt. a chilling effect on free speech.

291 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:14:11pm

Seriously- this is a microcosm of what ails the right.

We have no clue how grassroots movements work.

292 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:14:26pm

re: #288 Nevergiveup

I gather if you put on the wrong tape, we could have one all over America?

ONE? don’t they usually travel in PAIRS !?!?!?

293 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:14:33pm

re: #263 sattv4u2

It wasn’t enough for Ronald Reagan Jr.!

Ron Reagan Jr. has got other issues.

294 Athos  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:14:40pm

re: #266 Sharmuta

My point is we need to learn how to organize ourselves. So far I’m seeing EPIC FAIL.

Exactly. And, unfortunately, that organization efforts means that an organization has to be formed -501c(3) or some formal body on a local or national level. This creates a formal framework for fundraising as well as for supporting and assisting on the local permits and requirements for insurance.

We are in a society that has little hesitation to use litigation to gain from others - and as a result, organizations are needed to provide a degree of insulation and protection to individuals.

What I would like to see is the RNC take a far stronger organizing and supporting role in these tea party demonstrations. Of course, that would mean that they would have to take sides and piss off some of their current members / elected officials who are profitting from doing things the same old way.

295 Max Darkside  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:14:45pm

King of England: “Sorry, you colonies cannot revolt. You have not filled out the Revolt Permit, Form 34.5A in triplicate, submitted it to the Bureau of Revolutions and paid the necessary insurance if you muskets hurt someone.”

Colonist: “Oh, ok. Sorry.”

/seems like Monty Python material to me.

296 jorline  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:15:40pm

re: #280 sattv4u2

Second Base!



Homer

297 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:15:42pm

re: #292 sattv4u2

ONE? don’t they usually travel in PAIRS !?!?!?

Ya know it is not easy for me to go back and forth between the UNC game, Tiger and also type. Much less ding you up also.

298 rightymouse  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:15:46pm

re: #286 Sharmuta

Just speaking for myself. I wouldn’t bear the cost burden alone, and if there was no national office for me to turn to to get help, I would resign my position as head organizer too.

I think Ms Resko is taking the heat here, but she’s not the one who should be. The real responsibility lies on the national organizers of this grassroots movement to organize themselves, and get better coordinated.

What is the cost to get the insurance? It shouldn’t be that expensive, I would think?

299 Etaoin Shrdlu  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:16:03pm

This is one of a the few cases where I disagree with the Lizard King —

What do you disagree with? You think they should be allowed to demonstrate without a permit and insurance?

Would you say the same thing if this was an International ANSWER demonstration?

Yes and yes. The Bill of Rights wasn’t written with three pages of footnotes in 5pt Helvetica; “no law” means “no law”, not “provided your papers are in order”.

300 Athos  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:16:29pm

re: #291 Sharmuta

Seriously- this is a microcosm of what ails the right.

We have no clue how grassroots movements work.

We have no will or desire to capitalize on this grassroots movement which in many cases appears far closer to traditional conservatism than the RNC of 2006.

301 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:16:52pm

re: #297 Nevergiveup

Ya know it is not easy for me to go back and forth between the UNC game, Tiger and also type. Much less ding you up also.

Priotities, son

1st, ding me
2nd, UNC game
3rd Tiger
(it;’s early in the golf season,,, there is only ONE March Madness)

302 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:17:28pm

This gut Blake Griffin reminds me of Wes Unseld. Tough rebounder but not much of a shooter.

303 alegrias  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:18:01pm

re: #298 rightymouse

What is the cost to get the insurance? It shouldn’t be that expensive, I would think?

* * * * *
ACORN must know all about protest insurance. Bet ACORN & unions get a discount—so they’ll spend less of your tax dollars while they protest on your dime!

304 Emerald  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:18:03pm

re: #225 DistantThunder

I think this is part of a natural learning curve for conservatives. most of us have never had to protest. I think we should have been protesting long before this.

Excellent point. The Left has been having these things for decades now. They know what to expect.

re: #222 Sharmuta


Grassroots doesn’t mean anarchy, and no centralized power structure. The Tea Parties better figure out now how to best control their own movement.


Exactly. Someone needs to take charge, otherwise it’s going to be chaotic. You’ll have groups working at cross purposes to each other, the charges of conspiracies makes the people look like nuts, and nothing will ever get accomplished.

re: #227 engrpat

Oh sure we have the right to assemble and protest provided we have the necessary permits and insurance. Didn’t read that in the Constitution must be a new clause. I would just show up in the area anyway, I do have a right to be there.


We’re no longer living in the 18th century. Technology and the standard of living make it possible for the majority of the population to easily travel hundreds of miles for a rally. That was impossible at the time the Constitution was written, where a big crowd would have meant hundreds, possibly thousands at tops. The Founding Fathers had no way of imagining the crowds possible at one of today’s event, nor the logistics involved in dealing with that type of crowd. They also didn’t live in a litigation happy society.

305 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:18:05pm

re: #294 Athos

Exactly. And, unfortunately, that organization efforts means that an organization has to be formed -501c(3) or some formal body on a local or national level. This creates a formal framework for fundraising as well as for supporting and assisting on the local permits and requirements for insurance.

Thank you- that’s exactly my point. If no one on the national level wants to do this, then we will see more people balking at funding the real cost of protests by themselves and the tea parties will die for lack of organization. It’s incumbent on the supposed leaders of this grassroots effort to evolve at this point to a real organization with structure.

306 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:18:27pm
307 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:18:32pm

re: #299 Etaoin Shrdlu

This is one of a the few cases where I disagree with the Lizard King —

Yes and yes. The Bill of Rights wasn’t written with three pages of footnotes in 5pt Helvetica; “no law” means “no law”, not “provided your papers are in order”.

You’ve obviously never considered the:
yelling “Fire” in a crowded theatre argument.

308 Killian Bundy  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:18:41pm

re: #250 Spar Kling

So, we have freedom of assembly, but to exercise it, we must submit a request form (that can be denied) and buy insurance (that can also be denied or priced high in the future), and possibly even rent police.

It’s not an absolute right to publicly assemble without restriction.

/think Illinois Nazis

309 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:18:43pm

Funny — nobody was complaining about government restrictions on protests when Code Pink lost the right to demonstrate outside Walter Reed Hospital because they failed to renew their permits:

littlegreenfootballs.com

310 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:18:45pm

re: #301 sattv4u2

Priotities, son

1st, ding me
2nd, UNC game
3rd Tiger
(it;’s early in the golf season,,, there is only ONE March Madness)

Thank G-D for commercials

311 FlagPony  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:18:52pm

I think this whole discussion shows a few deep seeded problems that conservatives and the conservative movement has……

1) There is not a an effective major organization behind events, such as move on.org
2) The type of people who we are as conservatives tend to be a little less aggressive and kind of cower at any obstacle thrown in our way…including those who hold elected positions
3) As someone said before…the majority of like minded conservatives don’t have a network of unemployed people to do our groundwork…for instance before the election i met a group of central americans (with temp visas) at Yosemite National Park who were brought into the US specifically to go around registering voters before 11/4. We are just not that kind of people.
4) our networking…including internet skills are archaic thus far compared to the machine that helped get BHO elected…refer back to #1.

With all of this said, I fear that is going to take more than one election cycle to get this whole thing going…if we ever do. Even though I think the organizers should do what ever it takes to get this thing going I think that whether or not it’s cost prohibitive or not I don’t like the idea of having to get insurance to organize. I just don’t believe that those pro gaza groups protesting in san fran, ft. lauderdale etc had insurance…just a gut feeling.

312 KingKenrod  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:18:59pm

re: #299 Etaoin Shrdlu

This is one of a the few cases where I disagree with the Lizard King —

Yes and yes. The Bill of Rights wasn’t written with three pages of footnotes in 5pt Helvetica; “no law” means “no law”, not “provided your papers are in order”.

No one is saying they can’t gather on private property. The fact that they want to use public property is the issue, and there are competing rights. Should other residents of the city be forced to subsidize free speech that they might not agree with?

313 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:19:28pm

re: #309 Charles

Funny — nobody was complaining about government restrictions on protests when Code Pink lost the right to demonstrate outside Walter Reed Hospital because they failed to renew their permits:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

True, but they are so UGLY?

314 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:20:10pm

re: #298 rightymouse

What is the cost to get the insurance? It shouldn’t be that expensive, I would think?

I would think it’s very expensive. Think about what it would have to cover! Property damage alone! I’m not saying Tea Party demonstraters would be destructive, but things can get out of hand

Lets also say fights break out, people hurt. you don;t think they’d want some $$$$$$ as compensation

315 hazzyday  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:20:17pm

The organizer seems probably like a regular citizen and not used to requirements in life. Probably need to pick someone else to organize.

Critical Mass protests don’t get permits or insurance and are probably more effective in getting media coverage. Something to consider when structuring a protest.

Ideally, cities should probably have umbrella protest insurance where the cost is passed out over the population. a public insurance highway. Then use the $500 permit fee as reimbursement.

316 Athos  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:20:40pm

re: #299 Etaoin Shrdlu

This is one of a the few cases where I disagree with the Lizard King —


Yes and yes. The Bill of Rights wasn’t written with three pages of footnotes in 5pt Helvetica; “no law” means “no law”, not “provided your papers are in order”.

Remember that the Constitution is not absolute. There is no absolute protection of free speech - there are limitations that are defined by the need of the protection of society in general. One cannot use the 1st Amendment as a valid defense to creating a stampede by yelling fire in a crowded theater if there is no such threat present. The requirement for a permit to march is a tool that permits a city to gain information in order to position itself to ensure the general protection of the citizenry - marchers, countermarchers, or observers. The requirement for insurance or a bond is also a sensible step to ensure that damage or injuries are going to be covered by the organization and not by the population at large.

317 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:20:59pm

re: #298 rightymouse

What is the cost to get the insurance? It shouldn’t be that expensive, I would think?

I’m sticking with my position that this is a wake-up call to the overall movement to form a real organization. At this point we have chaos. Grassroots doesn’t mean anarchy.

318 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:21:06pm

re: #314 sattv4u2

I would think it’s very expensive. Think about what it would have to cover! Property damage alone! I’m not saying Tea Party demonstraters would be destructive, but things can get out of hand

Lets also say fights break out, people hurt. you don;t think they’d want some $$$$$$ as compensation

Who’s the guy who used to insure Oscar Madison with a handshake? His fees were reasonable.

319 victor_yugo  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:21:33pm

re: #299 Etaoin Shrdlu

This is one of a the few cases where I disagree with the Lizard King —

Yes and yes. The Bill of Rights wasn’t written with three pages of footnotes in 5pt Helvetica; “no law” means “no law”, not “provided your papers are in order”.

It also says “Congress shall make no law…” It does not speak to other legislative bodies.

320 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:21:57pm

re: #315 hazzyday

Ideally, cities should probably have umbrella protest insurance where the cost is passed out over the population. a public insurance highway. Then use the $500 permit fee as reimbursement.

You want govt to do this? Wow! Who’d you vote for?

321 jorline  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:22:16pm

re: #309 Charles

Funny — nobody was complaining about government restrictions on protests when Code Pink lost the right to demonstrate outside Walter Reed Hospital because they failed to renew their permits:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

Does ACORN have to carry coverage for it’s mass canvasing efforts?

322 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:22:17pm

re: #318 Nevergiveup

Who’s the guy who used to insure Oscar Madison with a handshake? His fees were reasonable.

True, but if Oscar ever tried to file a claim, he wouldn’t be able to find the guy!

323 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:22:21pm

re: #314 sattv4u2

I would think it’s very expensive.

I doubt it’s more than a couple hundred dollars. If these people aren’t even willing to come up with a couple hundred dollars to insure their protest, how committed are they really?

324 jvic  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:22:28pm

1. Rosko has posted more about her side of the story. Go to the Winknews link and scroll down to her comments on Friday, Mar 27 at 6:41 PM and Friday, Mar 27 at 6:47 PM.

2. On one hand, there’s the simplicity of the First Amendment’s words about free assembly. On the other, I have to agree that Rosko’s efforts were amateurish and uninformed. So what if they were? IMHO the powers that be have deliberately infested our society a with a context of counterproductive complexity.

325 rightymouse  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:22:55pm

re: #303 alegrias

* * * * *
ACORN must know all about protest insurance. Bet ACORN & unions get a discount—so they’ll spend less of your tax dollars while they protest on your dime!

Sharmuta does have a point about being organized - the tea parties are gaining momentum and should be coordinated. Still, I think SOMEONE down in Cape Coral could step forward and handle the insurance in the meantime.

326 alegrias  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:23:04pm

re: #305 Sharmuta

Thank you- that’s exactly my point. If no one on the national level wants to do this, then we will see more people balking at funding the real cost of protests by themselves and the tea parties will die for lack of organization. It’s incumbent on the supposed leaders of this grassroots effort to evolve at this point to a real organization with structure.

* * * *
I disagree with the proposition these tea parties should be organized from the top, like the LEFT does.

You WILL have a protest and you WILL like it? I don’t think so.

Sorry I disagree these protests are the equivalent of an organized political party’s activities.

327 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:23:07pm

re: #323 Charles

I doubt it’s more than a couple hundred dollars. If these people aren’t even willing to come up with a couple hundred dollars to insure their protest, how committed are they really?

How committed are they if they can’t take the time and money to form a real organization?

328 Athos  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:23:24pm

re: #305 Sharmuta

If this is a real movement, with a real calling, then there should not be a major challenge with the creation of a formal organization around it. But I will repeat myself, that this is a huge opportunity for the new leadership of the RNC to embrace the movement - which has strong conservative roots - and provide them with the assistance needed or umbrella to organize. Steele needs to the take the Party from being part of the problem to being part of the solution.

329 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:23:56pm
330 rawmuse  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:24:05pm

What is AIG doing? they’ll cover it.

331 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:24:06pm

re: #325 rightymouse

Sharmuta does have a point about being organized - the tea parties are gaining momentum and should be coordinated. Still, I think SOMEONE down in Cape Coral could step forward and handle the insurance in the meantime.

And perhaps someone will. But I personally wouldn’t bear the cost burden alone.

332 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:24:26pm

re: #323 Charles

I doubt it’s more than a couple hundred dollars. If these people aren’t even willing to come up with a couple hundred dollars to insure their protest, how committed are they really?

I agree re: committment, but again I beleive the insurance would be thousands, not hundreds. I’ll call my broker tomorrow and ask, just out of curiosity. i’ll give him the scenario of “X” amount of people going to Olympic Park here in Atlanta and see what liability ins would be for say one day

333 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:24:30pm

re: #326 alegrias

* * * *
I disagree with the proposition these tea parties should be organized from the top, like the LEFT does.

You WILL have a protest and you WILL like it? I don’t think so.

Sorry I disagree these protests are the equivalent of an organized political party’s activities.

Great- you’ll be providing the insurance for the FL protest then?

334 alegrias  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:24:55pm

re: #309 Charles

Funny — nobody was complaining about government restrictions on protests when Code Pink lost the right to demonstrate outside Walter Reed Hospital because they failed to renew their permits:

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com…]

* * * **
Are any tea party protesters planning to harass or harangue wounded veterans, amputees and their families?

335 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:24:56pm

re: #330 rawmuse

What is AIG doing? they’ll cover it.

They;re too busy covering their asses!

336 DistantThunder  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:25:04pm

Republican Steve Lonegan is running for Governor of New Jersey. He is an amazing communicator like Reagan.

Check out his radio ads

Why He Will Win
Steve Lonegan has the executive experience, the conservative philosophy and the political skills to win this election and be a great Governor for New Jersey.

Steve first attracted attention in 1995 when his aggressive campaign defeated a powerful and longtime Democratic incumbent. Because Bogota was a Democratic town, critics predicted that Lonegan would be a one-term Mayor.

But even though he reduced spending, cut payrolls with layoffs and stood up to entrenched special interest in town — including powerful public employee labor unions, Lonegan won reelection not once, but twice, and by solid double-digit margins.

And a Lonegan win meant wins for other Republicans as well. Mayor Lonegan’s conservative philosophy helped Republicans keep council control for ELEVEN STRAIGHT ELECTIONS even though this year Bogota voted 64% for Barack Obama and 66% for Frank Lautenberg. And in all three elections when Steve Lonegan ran for Mayor, every single Republican up and down the ballot carried Bogota.
Steve Lonegan is a principled leader whose record shows he believes in what he says and he fights for what he believes in.
Steve’s keen understanding of working families explains his cross-over appeal and ability to win the votes of Democrats, Independents and voters from all ethnic and religious backgrounds.

A strong fundraiser, Steve Lonegan will outraise all other candidates and run an aggressive and issue-oriented campaign focusing on his vision for New Jersey. Thanks to the matching funds program, Steve’s strong fundraising skills and your personal support, Steve will have enough money to insure everyone knows what he stands for and to counter anything Corzine and the Democrats say.

More importantly, unlike Corzine, Mayor Lonegan will have the crucial support of thousands of workers on the ground enthusiastic about the prospect of taking back our state.

Steve Lonegan is committed to winning and will not pull any punches when it comes to exposing the ultra left-wing Corzine record.

Steve Lonegan is a solid conservative and will gain the enthusiastic support of cultural, economic and social conservatives because he is a principled leader whose record shows he believes in what he says and he fights for what he believes in.

Steve will not cower and hide when his conservative views are attacked and he’s never going to apologize for his beliefs. That’s the kind of bold approach that will win back the “Reagan Democrats” our party has lost. Steve knows the way to win those voters is with a conservative vision of fighting for taxpayers, not pretending to be more like Democrats.

With Steve Lonegan at the top of our ticket, Republicans will once again be competitive in towns like Wallington and Lodi, Kearny and Belleville, Rahway and Linden, South River and South Brunswick and in Gloucester City and Gloucester County.

It’s time for a change. Time for a c

337 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:25:21pm

Drudge has buried the story about Biden’s daughter on the bottom of his page now

338 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:25:24pm

re: #332 sattv4u2

I agree re: committment, but again I beleive the insurance would be thousands, not hundreds.

No way.

339 AmeriDan  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:25:29pm

re: #324 jvic

deliberately infested our society a with a context of counterproductive complexity.

Talk about complexity!

340 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:25:43pm

re: #328 Athos

They can’t even cite real numbers in a counter-proposal budget.

341 Killian Bundy  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:25:55pm

re: #330 rawmuse

What is AIG doing? they’ll cover it.

/the “outrage” seems to gone away since last week, talk about a short attention span

342 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:26:02pm

re: #336 DistantThunder

Are you also from NJ?

343 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:26:33pm

re: #337 Nevergiveup

Drudge has buried the story about Biden’s daughter on the bottom of his page now

Probably where it belongs.

344 rightymouse  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:26:49pm

re: #314 sattv4u2

I would think it’s very expensive. Think about what it would have to cover! Property damage alone! I’m not saying Tea Party demonstraters would be destructive, but things can get out of hand

Lets also say fights break out, people hurt. you don;t think they’d want some $$$$$$ as compensation

I need some facts re: insurance cost, hon.

I don’t remember stories about insurance claims due to other types of protests, and many of them have been haven’t been exactly peaceful.

345 Emerald  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:26:50pm

Don’t you just love down dingers who are too cowardly to comment? I guess it makes them feel important.

346 sandbox  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:27:01pm

clarification: Are we talking about insurance against property damage that someone in the assembled crowd could cause? And if there was no insurance, the city could be liable for the damage.

347 DisturbedEma  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:27:03pm

re: #256 SanFranciscoZionist

Read at your own risk.

Not mine- I posted about U2 and Bono the tax cheat…

348 rawmuse  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:27:12pm

The time was when AIG would insure anything, even the Bohemian Grove, which is 3000 guys in the woods, drinking heavily, with fires.

No problem, got yer policy right here.

349 victor_yugo  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:27:22pm

re: #341 Killian Bundy

/the “outrage” seems to gone away since last week, talk about a short attention span

Or people finally realized they MSM was whipping up fury over a teensy smidgen.

The bonus payments, compared to the bailout money in general, is like comparing a sip of wine to a bottle of Jim Beam. Completely different scale.

350 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:27:32pm

re: #343 unrealizedviewpoint

Probably where it belongs.

Maybe but if it were a Republican’s Daughter, you know it would be all over CNN, MSNBC, and CBS

351 Gus  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:27:38pm

OK, here’s the wording from the City of Cape Coral:

Special Event Permit Process

The City of Cape Coral requires that all organizers who wish to conduct a special event for more than 500 people apply for a special event permit. Each permit is reviewed by all pertinent departments within the city, and serves as a tool to assist the event organizer in producing a safe, well planned event.

Event Insurance for events on city property is required.
The Insurance Accord Form needs to have these specifics:
1) Name of the event
2) Location of the event
3) Time and date of the event
4) Name the City of Cape Coral additional insured
Share these details with your insurance provider

Events Not on city property don’t require event insurance, but it is recommended.

Application Form

15. Insurance Requirement:(Events on City property)Workers’ Compensation: The policy must include Employer’s Liability with a limit of $500,000 each accident. Pleaseprovide the City of Cape Coral with a Certificate of Insurance for property and liability coverage of the event, naming theCity as additional insured. Combined Single Limit for Bodily Injury liability and Property Damage Liability havingminimum limits of $1,000,000 per occurrence must be provided prior to permit approval.Insurance must be event specific, certificate should list name, date and location of event.

352 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:27:47pm

I haven’t read every comment, but has anyone here volunteered to pay for this insurance for the FL people?

353 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:28:00pm

re: #287 DeepThroat

I don’t believe that is the issue.

She did in fact have a permit, it was rescinded and then she was told to get insurance.

Because of the size.

Look, you can’t have a kids’ party in the local park without extending your homeowner’s insurance to cover it. I really think this is just dumb to get upset about.

354 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:28:02pm

re: #345 Emerald

Don’t you just love down dingers who are too cowardly to comment? I guess it makes them feel important.

Give em a break. They focus all there profound thoughts into one click.

355 HoosierHoops  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:28:07pm

re: #338 Charles

No way.

Gov’t Help is on the way..
Contact the Office for Silly Protests
Washington DC
[no phone numbers allowed]

356 vagabond trader  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:28:35pm

re: #309 Charles

Why would we? If I were in charge those hags would not be allowed within 1 mile of our wounded vets.

357 Athos  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:28:47pm

re: #315 hazzyday

Cities do have general liability insurance policies that cover the actions that take place in the city and the actions of their employees. But that in itself is not the best solution to the problem. Cities make organizations file permits in order to assess risk and exercise some basic control over location and actions - ensuring hopefully adequate protections to those who march, countermarch, and just don’t care one way or the other.

However, the funds for these aren’t endless, the risks will impact costs, and all cities need to exercise a fair approach towards all groups in this process. Marches can take place without permits or insurance - but the organizers / leaders can be held personally liable for damages and can be subject for arrest if it gets out of control.

This shouldn’t be an issue around ignoring a law that is in place - but around conforming to that law (or petitioning to change the law) and focusing on getting the message organized and out.

358 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:28:48pm

re: #350 Nevergiveup

Maybe but if it were a Republican’s Daughter, you know it would be all over CNN, MSNBC, and CBS

True. But we’re supposed to be bigger and better.

359 Bloodnok  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:29:08pm

re: #334 alegrias

* * * **
Are any tea party protesters planning to harass or harangue wounded veterans, amputees and their families?

So are local governments supposed to make a judgment call on the relative peacefulness of the protesters? A window could be broken, a road sign pulled down. Who knows?

360 hazzyday  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:29:08pm

re: #320 unrealizedviewpoint

You want govt to do this? Wow! Who’d you vote for?

It’s protesting on public property. It’s a common good. The cost should be low.

I’m actually in favor of “no protests” as in Seattle we almost have a protest a day from looney tunes, that effectively block transportation for hours each time. It’s an unwanted cost to me.

Making protesting bland removes all the power they have. It’s been thought the the recent anti war protests were just exercises in self masturbation. No real sex occurred. Community organizing is where it’s at.

361 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:29:13pm
362 victor_yugo  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:29:15pm

re: #355 HoosierHoops

Gov’t Help is on the way..
Contact the Office for Silly Protests
Washington DC
[no phone numbers allowed]

Ha ha!

/nelson muntz

363 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:29:23pm

re: #344 rightymouse

Maybe it’s that “right wing” protesters want to be responsible, i.e. follow the rules, get the permits, play nice

As opposed to lefty protesters that don’t give a crap about the “rules”

364 Emerald  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:29:26pm

re: #314 sattv4u2

I would think it’s very expensive. Think about what it would have to cover! Property damage alone! I’m not saying Tea Party demonstraters would be destructive, but things can get out of hand

Lets also say fights break out, people hurt. you don;t think they’d want some $$$$$$ as compensation

But it’s not expensive, as others have pointed out. Lots of small groups manage it with no problems whatsoever. It’s coverage for a one-time event. It’s not an ongoing policy. It’s not a hindrance at any level.

365 sandbox  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:29:36pm

re: #336 DistantThunder

I am undecided between Lonnegan and Christie. I wish the other two candidates would get out of the race so we could have a head on contest between the two front runners.

366 jvic  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:29:38pm

re: #339 AmeriDan

deliberately infested our society a with a context of counterproductive complexity.

Talk about complexity!

Yeah, I know. English is my third language & it’s more in my head than in my gut.

367 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:30:10pm

re: #351 Gus 802

OK, here’s the wording from the City of Cape Coral:

Good find - I was looking for that too. So there’s a very clear existing regulation that events with 500 or more people must have a permit and insurance.

368 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:30:34pm

For some people, a couple hundred bucks might bust their personal budget.

369 victor_yugo  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:30:45pm

re: #361 buzzsawmonkey

Well, we can concentrate on the relative mote of bonus money in AIG’s eye while ignoring the Beam in our own.

Sounds like a plan.

370 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:30:58pm

re: #358 unrealizedviewpoint

True. But we’re supposed to be bigger and better.

Still she is suppose to be a social worker or something like that and anti-drug?

371 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:31:17pm

re: #327 Sharmuta

How committed are they if they can’t take the time and money to form a real organization?

Presently, it’s more a “hey, I like this idea” scramble than an organization.

372 Gus  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:31:43pm

re: #367 Charles

Good find - I was looking for that too. So there’s a very clear existing regulation that events with 500 or more people must have a permit and insurance.

Thanks. I tried using their search engine but ended up finding it like this.

“event permit site:capecoral.net”

373 victor_yugo  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:32:15pm

re: #350 Nevergiveup

Maybe but if it were a Republican’s Daughter, you know it would be all over CNN, MSNBC, and CBS

Case in point: Sarah Palin’s family.

374 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:32:22pm

re: #371 Dianna

Presently, it’s more a “hey, I like this idea” scramble than an organization.

I agree. But now that’s it’s growing, it’s time to put on the big boy pants.

375 vagabond trader  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:32:45pm

re: #368 Sharmuta

Heh, tell me about it. Here in the insurance whoredom of CT, everything has to be insured and it is very costly.

376 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:33:16pm
377 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:33:26pm

re: #368 Sharmuta

For some people, a couple hundred bucks might bust their personal budget.

If she knows that more than 500 people are attending, she’s got their emails. She can send out a mass mailing explaining the situation and asking for help.

I don’t care about her personal budget. She’s supposedly organizing this. She needs to organize.

378 victor_yugo  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:33:27pm

re: #375 vagabond trader

Heh, tell me about it. Here in the insurance whoredom of CT, everything has to be insured and it is very costly.

A government-granted corner on the market.

379 Bloodnok  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:34:16pm

re: #376 ericredwings

What a foolish thing to say. MOBY.

380 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:34:26pm

re: #374 Sharmuta

I agree. But now that’s it’s growing, it’s time to put on the big boy pants.

That goes especially for Ms. Rosko.

381 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:34:42pm

AP Source: GM CEO Wagoner to step down immediately

news.yahoo.com

382 eon  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:34:42pm

Actually, there are several “conservative” organizations that have known all there is to know about permits, insurance, etc., for public rallies, meetings, conventions, etc. literally for decades. They have to, because they are among the most hated organizations on Earth - hated by the “enlightened” left, that is.

Namely;

The National Rifle Association

Gun Owners of America

The Second Amendment Foundation

The Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms

Jews For The Preservation of Firearms Ownership

Now, it seems to me that there should be a considerable overlap between the kind of people who are members of these groups, and the sort who show up at, or organize, the Tea Parties. I’d think that at some point, some member of one would have already called up their national HQ and asked them how they handle insurance, permits, etc., for a public gathering.

There has to be someone there who does it. Ask them.

cheers

eon

383 AmeriDan  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:34:56pm

re: #376 ericredwings

Moby much?

384 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:35:04pm
385 rightymouse  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:35:18pm

re: #352 Sharmuta

I haven’t read every comment, but has anyone here volunteered to pay for this insurance for the FL people?


If I knew what the cost for event insurance there would be I would certainly volunteer. Guess I’ll have to check it out.

386 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:35:34pm

re: #377 Dianna

If she knows that more than 500 people are attending, she’s got their emails. She can send out a mass mailing explaining the situation and asking for help.

I don’t care about her personal budget. She’s supposedly organizing this. She needs to organize.

I don’t disagree. But this is an overall issue with the right- we don’t know how to do this. And at this point, she has no national office to turn to to help her.

387 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:35:37pm

re: #370 Nevergiveup

Still she is suppose to be a social worker or something like that and anti-drug?

Maybe now she’ll get serious about her calling.

388 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:35:45pm

re: #384 sattv4u2

Don’t quote things that are going to be deleted, Satt!

389 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:35:50pm

re: #324 jvic

1. Rosko has posted more about her side of the story. Go to the Winknews link and scroll down to her comments on Friday, Mar 27 at 6:41 PM and Friday, Mar 27 at 6:47 PM.

2. On one hand, there’s the simplicity of the First Amendment’s words about free assembly. On the other, I have to agree that Rosko’s efforts were amateurish and uninformed. So what if they were? IMHO the powers that be have deliberately infested our society a with a context of counterproductive complexity.

This is what Rozko posted:

Friday, Mar 27 at 6:47 PM Lynn Rosko wrote …
There is so much more to the story as it is written. I was never told of all the requirements when I initially contacted Mr. Pohlman. These only came to bear when they felt I had stirred up the troops and too many people might show up, in their opinion. The rules kept getting more and more onerous. So at 8:15 this morning I said enough is enough! They expected me to bear way too much liability!

But as Gus 802 posted above, this is simply not true. The rules did not change, and Rozko has only herself to blame for not finding out what the regulations said.

The city regulations very clearly state that events with more than 500 people must have permits and insurance.

capecoral.net

390 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:36:17pm

re: #388 Dianna

Don’t quote things that are going to be deleted, Satt!

ooopsss ,, THANK YOU! ,,,

REPLY ,,,, DON’T QUOTE ,,,, REPLY ,,, DON’T QUOTE

391 vagabond trader  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:36:36pm

re: #378 victor_yugo

Funny thing is when you are fortunate to have won a judgement against a contractor, good luck collecting from his insurance.

392 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:36:44pm

re: #380 Dianna

That goes especially for Ms. Rosko.

No- that goes for the entire movement.

393 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:37:01pm

re: #376 ericredwings

Post another comment like that and your account will be history.

394 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:37:12pm
395 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:37:32pm

re: #376 ericredwings

You’re calling for violence. Not good.

396 rightymouse  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:37:34pm

re: #363 sattv4u2

Maybe it’s that “right wing” protesters want to be responsible, i.e. follow the rules, get the permits, play nice

As opposed to lefty protesters that don’t give a crap about the “rules”

They need to focus on being committed to these tea party protests and anticipating the need for permits and event insurance.

We know lefties could care less about rules, but we do.

397 Gus  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:37:49pm

re: #389 Charles

But as Gus 802 posted above, this is simply not true. The rules did not change, and Rozko has only herself to blame for not finding out what the regulations said.

The city regulations very clearly state that events with more than 500 people must have permits and insurance.

[Link: www.capecoral.net…]

Also note the last date on the application: Updated 01/14/09

398 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:37:52pm

re: #392 Sharmuta

No- that goes for the entire movement.

Ms. Rosko is the one whining and making a fuss. The other organizers have stepped up and dealt, so she’s on the hot-seat on this one.

I admit that she’s annoying me.

399 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:38:14pm

re: #394 hazzyday

downding for agreeing with the call for violence

400 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:38:24pm
401 UberInfidel67  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:38:36pm

re: #309 Charles Meanwhile, wasn’t it Berkeley that painted the curb pink for those bitches to have a permit free zone in front of the Marine recruiter office?

402 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:38:46pm

re: #399 sattv4u2

downding for agreeing with the call for violence

It was gone before I saw it!

403 Emerald  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:38:47pm

re: #376 ericredwings

Hopefully that gets deleted. It’s sick and disgusting. Real life isn’t a video game where killing people solves problems. It’s also the type of comment that the left can use to paint LGF as a bunch of nuts.

404 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:39:14pm

UNC looking good

405 Dianna  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:39:41pm

Back to writing.

This topic’s making me mean.

406 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:40:08pm

re: #398 Dianna

Fair enough.

But now that I’m aware this grassroots movement is nothing more than chaos with the ability to email, I’m not impressed.

407 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:41:12pm

re: #402 Dianna

It was gone before I saw it!

same one you warmned me about. Mine’s now gone too

SORRY CHARLES

408 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:42:41pm
409 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:42:50pm

re: #396 rightymouse

They need to focus on being committed to these tea party protests and anticipating the need for permits and event insurance.

We know lefties could care less about rules, but we do.

I think that if those who started this movement cared, they’d organize and have a fund available to help provide locals with the needed money to keep this movement alive.

410 Killian Bundy  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:42:57pm

AP Source: GM CEO Wagoner to step down immediately

A person with knowledge of General Motors’ plans says Rick Wagoner will step down immediately as chairman and chief executive of the struggling Detroit automaker.

So, GM is obviously not going to make the Congressionally imposed Tuesday deadline for submitting their long term viability plan.

/mark my words, Obama will use this sword falling gesture to give GM more time and more taxpayer money to continue to fail

411 KingKenrod  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:43:20pm

re: #389 Charles

She also ran for city council in 2007, so you would think she’s learned something about city government.

412 nyc redneck  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:43:44pm

re: #389 Charles

But as Gus 802 posted above, this is simply not true. The rules did not change, and Rozko has only herself to blame for not finding out what the regulations said.

The city regulations very clearly state that events with more than 500 people must have permits and insurance.

[Link: www.capecoral.net…]

i wonder what, if anything, she means by ’ the rules kept getting more and more onerous’.
she needs to be specific abt. that, if in fact, she was singled out and
treated differently than other people seeking to assemble and protest.
i’m really curious abt. why she seems to have collapsed so easily.

413 Emerald  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:44:00pm

re: #406 Sharmuta

Fair enough.

But now that I’m aware this grassroots movement is nothing more than chaos with the ability to email, I’m not impressed.

The real problem isn’t that she wasn’t able to organize properly, it’s that she went nuts and starting making it into a federal case. And people are siding with her.

It’s a simple mistake. There’s a simple solution. Instead of just learning from the experience, she’s making the entire tea party movement look like a bunch of whiny complainers instead of a legitimate protest.

She’s done a lot more harm than she realizes. The vocals will rush to her side and claim the evil government is trying to shut her down, but the mainstream are just going to roll their eyes and think of the entire thing’s run by fruitcakes.

414 Photon Cowboy  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:44:43pm

accept liability for something that a stranger could do.

That’s the part that jumped out at me. If a few libtards show up at a tax rally and start any sort of trouble,guess who gets the blame ! I’m told that if you take your average protester and cleaned them up they could pass for normal. Must have insurance

415 Mithrax  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:44:46pm

re: #410 Killian Bundy

Actually from some of the articles, it may have been a condition for GM to get any money.

416 hazzyday  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:45:21pm

re: #399 sattv4u2

downding for agreeing with the call for violence

No problem. I am not in favor of the violence. But the MSM is. I think that was my point. Just not clearly put forth. When I was young I used to think violent solutions were acceptable. As I grew older I realized that by participating in such violence it would affect every aspect of life and those I love. And I would have to be a major loser to want to make my point by violence. Better not to make it at all. I always appreciate people who can point to valid success in non violent efforts especially in trying circumstances. It sorta rises above the noise level.

417 alegrias  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:45:27pm

re: #363 sattv4u2

Maybe it’s that “right wing” protesters want to be responsible, i.e. follow the rules, get the permits, play nice

As opposed to lefty protesters that don’t give a crap about the “rules”

* * * *
This week’s G-20 global professional protesters (and their legal teams) I’m sure have paid in advance for their protest permits, and have promised to be model citizens so they can break windows, destroy private property, injure cops, require thousands of police and fire & safety rescue employees…etc.

How much did the Oakland mobs pay in insurance to honor a copkiller?

418 Bloodnok  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:45:46pm

re: #413 Emerald

The real problem isn’t that she wasn’t able to organize properly, it’s that she went nuts and starting making it into a federal case. And people are siding with her.

It’s a simple mistake. There’s a simple solution. Instead of just learning from the experience, she’s making the entire tea party movement look like a bunch of whiny complainers instead of a legitimate protest.

She’s done a lot more harm than she realizes. The vocals will rush to her side and claim the evil government is trying to shut her down, but the mainstream are just going to roll their eyes and think of the entire thing’s run by fruitcakes.

I’d say they’re both big problems and will make the cause look silly. But I like your comment.

419 Geepers  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:46:15pm

Emerald (#403),

The left paints us as a bunch of nuts regardless of what we post.

420 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:46:28pm
421 KingKenrod  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:47:09pm

re: #381 Nevergiveup

AP Source: GM CEO Wagoner to step down immediately

[Link: news.yahoo.com…]

Politico is reporting that the government asked him to resign.

politico.com

422 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:47:26pm
423 WindHorse  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:47:43pm

wow….. Obama demands GM CEO’s head…… (at Drudge)

424 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:48:02pm

re: #422 buzzsawmonkey

I claim filbert! I claim filbert!

I’m cashew

/and no, I didn’t sneeze.

425 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:48:15pm

re: #421 KingKenrod

Politico is reporting that the government asked him to resign.

[Link: www.politico.com…]

Government is NOW running private business? Communism here we are!

426 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:48:21pm

re: #423 WindHorse

wow….. Obama demands GM CEO’s head…… (at Drudge)

And so it begins…

427 WindHorse  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:48:22pm

curiouser and curiouser said Alice…….

428 jorline  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:48:30pm

re: #410 Killian Bundy

AP Source: GM CEO Wagoner to step down immediately

So, GM is obviously not going to make the Congressionally imposed Tuesday deadline for submitting their long term viability plan.

/mark my words, Obama will use this sword falling gesture to give GM more time and more taxpayer money to continue to fail

How much will the buyout on his contract be?

Bailouts/Buyouts
Tomato/Tomado

429 Sharmuta  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:48:41pm

re: #413 Emerald

One way to deal with this would be a national umbrella organization, but I now sound like a broken record. The right does not know how to effectively support grassroots efforts. We need to learn and learn quickly or this opportunity will be wasted.

430 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:48:41pm
431 Killian Bundy  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:49:20pm

re: #415 Mithrax

Actually from some of the articles, it may have been a condition for GM to get any money.

The deadline for a viability plan is Tuesday and, as far as I know, GM still haven’t reached a satisfactory deal with the bond holders or the union.

/without those concessions, the public dime is supposed to stop Tuesday, but it won’t, because never fear Obama is here!

432 WindHorse  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:49:24pm

like Obama has some clue that GM doesn’t…. talk about hubris….

433 Gus  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:49:53pm

Thanks for the hat tip Charles. If Lynn Rosko refuses to get insurance then she should consider other options rather than fight what is clearly city law. This could be in the form of a march which might only require a right-of-way demonstration permit.

434 pink freud  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:50:20pm

re: #423 WindHorse

wow….. Obama demands GM CEO’s head…… (at Drudge)

…and gets it.

435 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:50:28pm

re: #431 Killian Bundy

The deadline for a viability plan is Tuesday and, as far as I know, GM still haven’t reached a satisfactory deal with the bond holders or the union.

/without those concessions, the public dime is supposed to stop Tuesday, but it won’t, because never fear Obama is here!

Too big to fail… too many juicy time-wasting, money hungry Union workers to get on the public dole.

Just watch.

436 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:51:03pm

re: #425 Nevergiveup

Government is NOW running private business? Communism here we are!

That seems to be the mantra over at hot air about this story too. The right just seems in reactionary mode and will oppose absolutely everything Obama says or does without even thinking.

437 Bobblehead  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:51:07pm

re: #428 jorline

How much will the buyout on his contract be?

Bailouts/Buyouts
Tomato/Tomado

At Obama’s request
politico.com

438 callahan23  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:51:10pm

re: #417 alegrias

* * * *
This week’s G-20 global professional protesters (and their legal teams) I’m sure have paid in advance for their protest permits, and have promised to be model citizens so they can break windows, destroy private property, injure cops, require thousands of police and fire & safety rescue employees…etc.

How much did the Oakland mobs pay in insurance to honor a copkiller?

Lights out for the green protesters.
Climate won’t be an issue this time around in London. The climate issue is postponed to the summer. The financial crisis is way more important.

439 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:51:15pm

re: #430 buzzsawmonkey

Cashew? On the barrelhead, I presume.

Just don’t ask for pecan…

440 Aviator  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:51:33pm

re: #431 Killian Bundy

The deadline for a viability plan is Tuesday and, as far as I know, GM still haven’t reached a satisfactory deal with the bond holders or the union.

/without those concessions, the public dime is supposed to stop Tuesday, but it won’t, because never fear Obama is here!

According to the story on drudge Obama demanded his resignation. If so, it is very troublesome.

441 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:52:02pm

re: #435 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Too big to fail… too many juicy time-wasting, money hungry Union workers to get on the public dole.

Just watch.

lets see. Either GM pays them $50 an hour to do not much, or GM goes under and the gov’t pays them $40 an hour to do a little less!

//

442 brookly red  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:52:20pm

re: #422 buzzsawmonkey

I claim filbert! I claim filbert!

I am a garden varity wingnut, so I am told.

443 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:52:47pm

re: #436 Killgore Trout

That seems to be the mantra over at hot air about this story too. The right just seems in reactionary mode and will oppose absolutely everything Obama says or does without even thinking.

I think when you have a President of the USA “Demanding” the CEO of a still private company resign, you are on slippery ground.

444 Abu Lahab  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:52:52pm

I thought it’s interesting to check how much event insurance cost, maybe this gives an idea
(From an insurance company on-line)
Total Event Attendance Premium
1,500 or less $383.00
1,501 to 3,000 $740.00
3,100 to 6,000 $1,479.00
6,001 to 12,000 $2,550.00

LIABILITY LIMITS
$2,000,000 General Aggregate
$1,000,000 Each Occurence
$1,000,000 Products/Completed Operations Aggregate
$1,000,000 Personal & Advertising Injury
$300,000 Damage To Premises Rented To You
$5,000 Medical Expense Payments

And from here:

Cost. Prices will always vary. General liability cost is based on the type of event, its duration, and the number of people attending. But after tossing around different scenarios with insurance experts to determine the general-liability cost of insuring a black-tie benefit for more than 500 people, including liquor and live entertainment, we estimate a price range of $400 to 600 for the typical $1 million policy. Certain additions, like a policy covering a terrorist attack, can be added with a 1 to 2 percent surcharge.
445 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:52:56pm

re: #441 sattv4u2

lets see. Either GM pays them $50 an hour to do not much, or GM goes under and the gov’t pays them $40 an hour to do a little less!

//

It’s a win win!

446 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:53:39pm

re: #443 Nevergiveup

I think when you have a President of the USA “Demanding” the CEO of a still private company resign, you are on slippery ground.’ve gone round the bend, down the rabbit hole, over the edge !

FTFY

447 WindHorse  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:54:01pm

re: #443 Nevergiveup

quit being so reactionary…..

448 Gus  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:54:08pm

re: #444 Abu Lahab

Thanks for that information. I was looking up some rate and came to a guess of about $500. If the event was an even 500 participants it would have meant a donation of $1 each.

449 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:54:10pm

Charles,
How about when a comment gets deleted (because it quotes another comment requiring deletion), it gets replaced with the wording like maybe:

Please do not quote comments destined for deletion.
—Stinky

Serves two purposes:
1) Demonstrates that there are actually very few required deletions.
2) Acts a constant reminder to hatchlings.

450 alegrias  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:54:22pm

re: #420 buzzsawmonkey

That’s setting the bar nice and high.

* * * *
Yes, sorry.

451 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:54:26pm

re: #443 Nevergiveup

I think when you have a President of the USA “Demanding” the CEO of a still private company resign, you’ve gone over the edge ,, down the rabbit hole ,,, over the edge are on slippery ground.

(don’t know what happened to the 1st one)

452 Bloodnok  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:54:36pm

re: #446 sattv4u2

Failed That For You?

453 rightymouse  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:54:38pm

re: #331 Sharmuta

And perhaps someone will. But I personally wouldn’t bear the cost burden alone.

Some of us may have to until there is an umbrella organization to do this with donations. I did a cursory check and it’s several hundred dollars which isn’t too awful.

454 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:54:54pm

re: #443 Nevergiveup

Not really. If the government is going to bail them out they are going to have to set conditions on the money. If Obama gave them money with no conditions the exact same people would complain about lack of oversight.

455 KingKenrod  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:55:00pm

I wouldn’t be surprised if the Wagoner resignation had something to do with proposed executive compensation restriction. Wagoner may have stood to lose millions by staying on. Just speculation.

456 Killian Bundy  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:55:04pm

re: #440 Aviator

According to the story on drudge Obama demanded his resignation. If so, it is very troublesome.

/it’s a ruse to allow GM to skip the deadline and be “given more time” to continue to suck off the taxpayer teat

457 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:55:06pm

re: #452 Bloodnok

Failed That For You?

bingo

458 eon  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:55:40pm

re: #414 Photon Cowboy

accept liability for something that a stranger could do.

That’s the part that jumped out at me. If a few libtards show up at a tax rally and start any sort of trouble,guess who gets the blame ! I’m told that if you take your average protester and cleaned them up they could pass for normal. Must have insurance

It’s no different than the liability insurance I carry on my house, and which you probably have on yours. When you read the fine print, a liability policy (from a legitimate insurer) has a “third party” clause. This is the bit that protects you (the insuree) from damages claimed by someone who is injured, etc., by someone else (the “third party”) who is on or within your property without permission or a legitimate reason to be there. An example of this would be a burglar who, in leaving your house, slugs somebody on the sidewalk in front of your front door in the process. Yes, the victim should sue the yob- but if he decides that you have deeper pockets, and can get a lawyer to take the case to a civil court, you’re covered.

An insurance policy for a public gathering should have a similar clause, and I’m betting that any insurer that provides such will already have it in their boilerplate version. If they don’t, ask. If they don’t want to do it that way, find another insurance agent.

There are a lot of them in the phone book.

cheers

eon

459 seekeroftruth  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:55:49pm
460 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:56:14pm

re: #454 Killgore Trout

Not really. If the government is going to bail them out they are going to have to set conditions on the money. If Obama gave them money with no conditions the exact same people would complain about lack of oversight.

Well time will tell. Lets see what happens. But me. I’d let them fail and then start over.

461 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:56:21pm

re: #454 Killgore Trout

Not really. If the government is going to bail them out they are going to have to set conditions on the money. If Obama gave them money with no conditions the exact same people would complain about lack of oversight.

the “conditions” HAVE to be set PRIOR to the money being given, not POST. If post, then the gov’t can move the goalposts at anytime

462 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:56:53pm
463 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:56:59pm

re: #461 sattv4u2

the “conditions” HAVE to be set PRIOR to the money being given, not POST. If post, then the gov’t can move the goalposts at anytime

Well this Government seems to think it can

464 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:57:50pm

re: #463 Nevergiveup

Well this Government seems to think it can DOES

aint no “think it can” bout it!

465 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:57:54pm

GM CEO Wagoner to Step Down

Wagoner has served as CEO since 2000. Under his leadership, GM has steadily lost market share in North America while becoming the dominant automaker in China, where it is currently number one.

For all of Wagoner’s international success, his inability to cut losses and make GM profitable in North America is ultimately the cause of his downfall. Vice Chairman and President Fritz Henderson is expected to step in upon Wagoner’s departure.


The guy failed. Why should the tax payers give GM money and keep this guy at the helm?

466 WindHorse  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:58:26pm

setting conditions is one thing…. changing the structure of the organization…. is sort of different….

467 Aviator  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:59:05pm

re: #454 Killgore Trout

Not really. If the government is going to bail them out they are going to have to set conditions on the money. If Obama gave them money with no conditions the exact same people would complain about lack of oversight.

Obama did not give them the money, Congress did. Did Congress give the President the power to replace executives at his whim?

468 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:59:17pm

re: #465 Killgore Trout

GM CEO Wagoner to Step Down


The guy failed. Why should the tax payers give GM money and keep this guy at the helm?

Should the US TAXPAYERS give them anymore money PERIOD!

469 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:59:21pm

re: #462 buzzsawmonkey

For united we stand, divided we fall, nuts
And if our backs should ever be against the walnuts,
We’ll be together, together you and I…

Oh, you’re good…

470 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:59:21pm
471 WindHorse  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:59:24pm

why should we taxpayers pay a nickel to any privately held company for any reason?

472 rightymouse  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:59:28pm

re: #409 Sharmuta

I think that if those who started this movement cared, they’d organize and have a fund available to help provide locals with the needed money to keep this movement alive.

The movement started with Santelli’s lovely rant. It’s early, we can get organized. I think Rosko is well-meaning and it just got over her head due to the potential turn-out & the subsequent legal requirements. The potential turn-out is not a bad thing, mind you. I happen to think it’s excellent that we should be happy to have minor irritants like event insurance.

473 summergurl  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 2:59:57pm

re: #218 eclectic infidel

If this event is as important as it seems to be to a specific group of people, and insurance is mandatory in order for it to happen, charging a nominal fee probably isn’t going to be a big deal. I mean, I get the impression that the tea parties, though grassroot in origin, are symptomatic of a need for real change regarding taxation. I could be wrong, as I am not intimately involved in this particular political scene of course.

Maybe the issue here is she is calling it an “event”. If you protest and march in the streets would that be considered an event or freedom of speech? The lady who organized this should have had her ducks in a row beforehand. One of the earlier articles said she could have only 499 attendees and there would be a ranger there with a clicker. Ranger? Must be held at a park which is typically city owned property and requiring insurance would be a no brainer for any seasoned organizer. Maybe she should have called Code Pinkos for help in setting this up.

474 jvic  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:00:16pm

re: #389 Charles re: #411 KingKenrod

Maybe she made a good-faith effort to find out the ground rules from the Parks Department. Maybe not. Maybe the PD also acted in good faith. Maybe not.

IMO the situation is not clearcut, and reasonable people can interpret the same facts differently. My benefit of the doubt goes to the individual citizen. The more political experience Rosko already has, the less slack I cut her.

475 jorline  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:00:28pm

re: #437 Bobblehead

At Obama’s request
[Link: www.politico.com…]

On Monday, President Obama is to unveil his plans for the auto industry, including a response to a request for additional funds by GM and Chrysler.

Industry sources had said the White House planned very tough medicine, which turned out to be an understatement. And it went to the very top. The measures to be imposed by the government will have a dramatic effect on workers, unions, suppliers, retirees and the communities where plants are located, the sources said.

From your link…his plans scare the shit out of me.
Looks like he may piss off his friend at the AFL CIO in the process.

476 WindHorse  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:00:30pm

re: #471 WindHorse

oh….. that’s right….. we have to distribute the wealth a little better…. I forgot…

477 Aviator  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:00:37pm

re: #471 WindHorse

why should we taxpayers pay a nickel to any privately held company for any reason?

We should not, they should have filed Chapter 11. That is not what was done.

478 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:01:11pm

re: #465 Killgore Trout

GM CEO Wagoner to Step Down


The guy failed. Why should the tax payers give GM money and keep this guy at the helm?

The company should not get tax money. What happens to the guy is up to the share holders, not the neophyte in the White House.

479 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:01:23pm

re: #461 sattv4u2

It is unclear if Wagoner’s resignation is one of the stipulations for the federal government to lend billions more to GM. But sources close to the talks say tough conditions will be attached to any future aid.

President Obama will update the public on the Treasury Department’s next step in helping GM and Chrysler on Monday afternoon.


It’s not Monday afternoon yet. Seriously guys, it is an interesting situation worth discussing but the knee jerk opposition and cries of fascism and totalitarianism aren’t constructive. We all watched the koskidz do it for 8 years. Why do the same thing?

480 Colonel Panik  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:01:42pm

Maybe they should hold their Tea Party on Martha’s Vineyard instead. I hear Muffy, Buffy, and Biff are down with it.

Yo, yo, where my WASPS at?

481 Photon Cowboy  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:01:50pm

re: #458 eonWhat I think you are saying is that there a too many lawyers.

Cheers back at you

482 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:02:06pm

I wonder of Wagoner voted for Obama?

483 Gus  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:02:41pm

re: #458 eon

And it protects the city. If someone were to fall into a drainage inlet and get swept away into a drainage pipe at Jaycee Park they wouldn’t sue the organizers, they would sue the City of Cape Coral.

Liability could also be effected by weather such as what occurred at an air show in Huntsville, Alabama in which a child of 5 years died during a high wind event. The family “is filing suit against those they feel responsible for the accident.”

484 Killgore Trout  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:02:41pm

re: #480 Colonel Panik

Good one.

485 WindHorse  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:02:47pm

the whole notion of spending ourselves out of this recession is asinine.

486 summergurl  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:02:49pm

re: #453 rightymouse

Some of us may have to until there is an umbrella organization to do this with donations. I did a cursory check and it’s several hundred dollars which isn’t too awful.

She would have to pay for the insurance and then ask for voluntary donations to defray expenses. Heaven forbid she gets more than she spent - then she would have to deal with a tax issue. Of course she could ask Tim how to avoid paying those pesky things….

487 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:02:50pm
488 pink freud  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:02:53pm

re: #478 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

Ahum! *King Neophyte* to you and me, bub.

489 brookly red  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:03:13pm

So, who chooses the new CEO?

490 Nevergiveup  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:03:20pm

re: #479 Killgore Trout

It’s not Monday afternoon yet. Seriously guys, it is an interesting situation worth discussing but the knee jerk opposition and cries of fascism and totalitarianism aren’t constructive. We all watched the koskidz do it for 8 years. Why do the same thing?

That is not what we are doing. But most of us do not like the Government of the US getting involved in private business to this extend. And we did not like it when Bush did it either!

491 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:03:26pm

re: #474 jvic

re: #411 KingKenrod

Maybe she made a good-faith effort to find out the ground rules from the Parks Department. Maybe not. Maybe the PD also acted in good faith. Maybe not.

IMO the situation is not clearcut, and reasonable people can interpret the same facts differently. My benefit of the doubt goes to the individual citizen. The more political experience Rosko already has, the less slack I cut her.

But it is extremely clear cut. The rules are right there in black and white.

492 jorline  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:03:58pm

re: #465 Killgore Trout

GM CEO Wagoner to Step Down


The guy failed. Why should the tax payers give GM money and keep this guy at the helm?

I vote for them to file bankruptcy and get rid of him…this should cover all bases.

No more bailout money!

493 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:05:08pm

re: #471 WindHorse

why should we taxpayers pay a nickel to any privately held company for any reason?

Well, what if they told you, the taxpayer, that if you the didn’t, the economy might completely collapse?

494 Aviator  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:05:34pm

re: #478 Vet_Missing_Parts (1LT, Ret)

The company should not get tax money. What happens to the guy is up to the share holders, not the neophyte in the White House.

Exactly. Will Obama be appointing the new CEO or will the BOD be trying to find his replacement? There will be a job highly qualified people want since they will know they could be out on the street at Obama’s (who clearly does not know squat about business) whim. Not.

495 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:05:41pm

re: #479 Killgore Trout

It is unclear if Wagoner’s resignation is one of the stipulations for the federal government to lend billions more to GM. But sources close to the talks say tough conditions will be attached to any future aid

That just made my point! Nobody knows if/ what there were conditions to GM et al getting the money. Now they’re going to make sure there are in the future! They;re making it up as they go along!

496 eon  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:05:45pm

re: #459 seekeroftruth


You might find this interesting.

Even simpler- pick up a copy of Take Back Your Government by Robert Heinlein.

I hate to disagree with the Old Man, but when he said (in a preface to one of the last editions published before his death) that the methods he described in the book were “outdated”, he was incorrect. A look at the way The One won the last election, and the way the Democrats keep beating Republicans nationwide clearly shows that “the old methods” still work, and are still very effective. TBYG is a handy handbook on how to run a grassroots political movement, of the type that we are supposedly trying to create to counterbalance the ones on the “progressive” side that have had all the advantages.

And it’s a paperback. You can stick it in your pocket for quick reference.

/Don’t forget to pick up a copy of Roberts’ Rules of Order, while you’re at it.

cheers

eon

497 kansas  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:06:48pm

ACORN would have permits.

498 rightymouse  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:07:48pm

re: #486 summergurl

She would have to pay for the insurance and then ask for voluntary donations to defray expenses. Heaven forbid she gets more than she spent - then she would have to deal with a tax issue. Of course she could ask Tim how to avoid paying those pesky things….

If I couldn’t afford it myself, I’d get a quote, go to a couple of friends who would likely chip in and just do it. It’s a minor irritant. Not that big of a deal. We’re not talking about forming a 501(c)3 or anything unless she wanted to be a full-time activist.

499 soccer fan  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:07:56pm

re: #9 MandyManners

If a buncha’ Commie pukes can follow the law, so can others.

My guess is they can afford it because they receive federal govt subsidies in one way or another.

500 Killian Bundy  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:08:10pm

re: #493 unrealizedviewpoint

Well, what if they told you, the taxpayer, that if you the didn’t, the economy might completely collapse?

That’s a good, valid argument for the banking system.

/GM declares bankruptcy today, you’ll still have plenty of car buying opportunities tomorrow

501 Photon Cowboy  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:08:24pm

re: #487 buzzsawmonkey


LOL You got with a good one. Hope you don’t mind if I use it at work

502 OldLineTexan  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:09:46pm

re: #479 Killgore Trout

Can you point me to a post in this thread with “fascism” or “totalitarianism”? Control-F isn’t finding those words anywhere but in your post.

503 jvic  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:10:11pm

re: #491 Charles

When a citizen of a free country wants to exercise her right of assembly, the burden shouldn’t be on her to be completely sure that she has satisfied all applicable regulations. IMO.

504 OldLineTexan  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:10:30pm

re: #489 brookly red

So, who chooses the new CEO?

AT GM? It used to be whoever the oldest surviving employee was.

;)

505 irongrampa  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:10:31pm

I guess I’ll withdraw my objection here if anyone can show me in black and white just what part of the Constitution states that i have to have a PERMIT to exercise my right to peaceful assembly.

Do that and I’ll shut up.

506 Photon Cowboy  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:10:54pm

sorry about that last post. It should read you got me with a good one.

507 OldLineTexan  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:12:01pm

re: #497 kansas

ACORN would have permits.

ACORN would have anything it needs.

/faux grass-roots

508 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:13:48pm

re: #503 jvic

When a citizen of a free country wants to exercise her right of assembly, the burden shouldn’t be on her to be completely sure that she has satisfied all applicable regulations. IMO.

If you want to be the organizer of a demonstration, it is incumbent on you to make sure you follow all the applicable regulations of the city where you’re holding the event.

509 kansas  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:14:15pm

re: #507 OldLineTexan

ACORN would have anything it needs.

No shit. Paid for by our tax money too.

510 alegrias  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:14:36pm

re: #475 jorline

From your link…his plans scare the shit out of me.
Looks like he may piss off his friend at the AFL CIO in the process.

* * * *

No union will be left behind! What aren’t the unions getting from Obama or Pelosi?

511 OldLineTexan  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:15:00pm

re: #509 kansas

No shit. Paid for by our tax money too.

Or a rich Hungarian uncle.

/Practically the same thing these days

512 OldLineTexan  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:15:53pm

You gotta worry about your “movement” if Boobs Not Bombs has less trouble organizing than you do.

513 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:16:15pm

re: #510 alegrias

* * * *

No union will be left behind! What aren’t the unions getting from Obama or Pelosi?

Wouldn’t it be delicious as part og GM/ Chryslers bail out package that not only do executives NOT get bonuses, but also blue collar workers MUST give back 90% of their vacation pay!

514 kansas  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:16:19pm

re: #508 Charles

If you want to be the organizer of a demonstration, it is incumbent on you to make sure you follow all the applicable regulations of the city where you’re holding the event.

No offense. But that sorta screws people who aren’t professional organizers and perhaps have other jobs that they have in order to pay for those like ACORN.

515 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:16:41pm

re: #512 OldLineTexan

You gotta worry about your “movement” if Boobs Not Bombs has less trouble organizing than you do.

Theres more interest in BOOBS than TEA!

516 alegrias  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:18:12pm

re: #497 kansas

ACORN would have permits.

* * * *
Paid by your tax dollars!

517 OldLineTexan  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:19:06pm

re: #515 sattv4u2

Theres more interest in BOOBS than TEA!

You’ve seen the boobs, right?

/I’ll have two sugars in mine

518 Emerald  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:19:09pm

re: #505 irongrampa

I guess I’ll withdraw my objection here if anyone can show me in black and white just what part of the Constitution states that i have to have a PERMIT to exercise my right to peaceful assembly.

Do that and I’ll shut up.

Read the damn link to where it’s been held Constitutional. Getting a permit and insurance is not a hindrance to gathering. It’s not a government conspiracy to silence you. Ignore that black helicopter outside your home. It’s not there to take you to the super-secret detainment camps where you’re going to be re-educated.

519 kansas  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:19:33pm

re: #516 alegrias

* * * *
Paid by your tax dollars!

Sorta my point. So how do people who aren’t professional leeches participate in demonstrations and gatherings that up to now seemed to be part of our rights?

520 OldLineTexan  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:19:46pm

Hey, more “fascism” in the next thread!

Still waiting for an answer on my # 502.

521 kansas  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:22:29pm

re: #518 Emerald

Read the damn link to where it’s been held Constitutional. Getting a permit and insurance is not a hindrance to gathering. It’s not a government conspiracy to silence you. Ignore that black helicopter outside your home. It’s not there to take you to the super-secret detainment camps where you’re going to be re-educated.

So you have to buy insurance in order to exercise your rights? If doing that is not a hindrance I don’t know what is.

522 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:22:39pm

re: #520 OldLineTexan

Hey, more “fascism” in the next thread!

Still waiting for an answer on my # 502.

you wo’t get one. I’bve gone round with ‘him” before

523 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:23:23pm

re: #522 sattv4u2

you wo’t WON’T get one. I’bve gone round with ‘him” before

damn new thumbs

524 OldLineTexan  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:24:34pm

re: #522 sattv4u2

Oh. I won’t go around. But the hyperbole is silly.

525 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:24:51pm

re: #260 SanFranciscoZionist

Very upset people.

I wanted to comment earlier on this point so here it goes now…

Yesterday a few members of our little protest group countered an impromptu anti-Israel meeting at a public library in the East Bay. We have a few of our own on their mailing list (it’s a Middle East studies group that originates from Alameda) so after our counter demo in front of Grand Lake, a simple group of 2 Zionists arrived on the scene and handed out literature that debunked theirs.

One reason that “the other side” holds impromptu meetings like this is to keep away our side. They don’t want competition. Fortunately we have infiltrated their mailing list. However, we aren’t always successful at this sort of thing. We have heard rumors that something is planned for tomorrow in San Francisco in front of the consulate (Israeli) but we can’t confirm this. The “other side” is keeping this quiet so as to avoid our presence there. Something about us seems to bring out the worst elements on their side. :)

526 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:26:41pm

re: #519 kansas

Sorta my point. So how do people who aren’t professional leeches participate in demonstrations and gatherings that up to now seemed to be part of our rights?

You make sure that you follow the rules. It’s not hard. If you don’t follow the rules, you shouldn’t be surprised if you have problems.

527 MarineMomSue  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:26:58pm

re: #350 Nevergiveup

Maybe but if it were a Republican’s Daughter, you know it would be all over CNN, MSNBC, and CBS

Sarah Palin’s daughter comes to mind. She was 16 but still fair game to the MSM. Biden’s daughter is 27, hardly a child.

Ms Biden’s daddy may want to remind her, like it or not, she’s the daughter of the sitting VP.

She might also want to consider using some care in choosing her the company she keeps. (especially when she intends to engage in illegal activity.)

Regardless of party, it’s sad that actions by the family members of one in the political spotlight should be automatic targets of opposition.

528 Emerald  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:28:53pm

re: #514 kansas

No offense. But that sorta screws people who aren’t professional organizers and perhaps have other jobs that they have in order to pay for those like ACORN.

Yet somehow, all over the country, groups of all sizes and without professional backing manage to get permits and insurance. You go to town/city hall. You ask the clerk what needs to be done. They give you the paperwork. You turn it in.

529 rightymouse  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:28:54pm

Chicken’s in the oven for dinner and needs my attention.

Later.

530 Emerald  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:30:12pm

re: #521 kansas

So you have to buy insurance in order to exercise your rights? If doing that is not a hindrance I don’t know what is.

Your rights are not absolute. They don’t include the ability to infringe on the rights or safety of others.

531 kansas  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:30:47pm

re: #526 Charles

You make sure that you follow the rules. It’s not hard. If you don’t follow the rules, you shouldn’t be surprised if you have problems.


I see your point, but having to pay for a permit and pay for insurance in order to gather and express a political opinion seems to favor those groups, like ACORN, who have professional tax supported organizers. I don’t like it.

532 Sheepdogess  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:31:08pm

re: #479 Killgore Trout

I don’t see anything good coming from this.

I wouldn’t be surprised if sometime down the road the feds confiscate the private homes of those who took bailout money, including the the $7,500 tax credit on first time home buyers. Private homeowners beware.

Read.
Your.
Contracts.
Carefully.

533 TechObjectivist  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:31:21pm

I sympathize with the sentiment that requiring permits, could be an infringement of first amendment rights. My advice for the organizers for the Tea Party is pick your battles. We can worry about issues like permits much further down the line.

Incidentally, in an ideal society, where all property is privately owned, this would never be an issue. But then if we lived in such a society, there would be no need for Tea Parties demonstrations. One step at a time.

534 kansas  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:31:36pm

re: #528 Emerald

Yet somehow, all over the country, groups of all sizes and without professional backing manage to get permits and insurance. You go to town/city hall. You ask the clerk what needs to be done. They give you the paperwork. You turn it in.

So you do this when you are at work? And you pay for the permit and insurance with what?

535 Emerald  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:31:42pm

re: #419 Geepers

Emerald (#403),

The left paints us as a bunch of nuts regardless of what we post.

So it’s okay to give them real ammunition? Did you even read the original comment to which I replied? It was sick.

536 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:32:37pm

Wow. So generally speaking, the CODE PINKOS are smarter, more organized, and more civics-savvy than the folks in the Tea Party?

How very sad.

537 kansas  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:32:52pm

re: #530 Emerald

Your rights are not absolute. They don’t include the ability to infringe on the rights or safety of others.

So having a gathering of 501 people is infringing on the rights and safety of others? I do not agree with this.

538 kansas  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:34:04pm

re: #536 Slumbering Behemoth

Wow. So generally speaking, the CODE PINKOS are smarter, more organized, and more civics-savvy than the folks in the Tea Party?

How very sad.

Generally speaking professionally organized groups are more organized. Sorta keeps the riff raff amateur protesters at home.

539 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:34:22pm

re: #536 Slumbering Behemoth

Wow. So generally speaking, the CODE PINKOS are smarter, more organized, and more civics-savvy than the folks in the Tea Party?

How very sad.

Not smarter, but they DO this for a living, whereas most “conservative” protests are spawned by people that ,, well,,, have LIVES,,,, jobs, family obligations ,, etc

540 Emerald  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:35:18pm

re: #534 kansas

So you do this when you are at work? And you pay for the permit and insurance with what?

There’s this thing called the telephone. It lets you talk to people who aren’t right next to you. There’s an even newer invention called e-mail where you can write to them. You pay with money. It’s not expensive. If you can’t afford it, you hook up with other people to share the costs. If you still can’t afford it, find an alternative. You don’t have the right to everything you want. If you want an event that runs the risk of causing a lot of damage, you have to pay for it.

541 Sheepdogess  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:37:50pm

re: #480 Colonel Panik

LMAO!

542 Catttt  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:37:54pm

re: #38 Charles

Get a load of this rationalization:


Hello? The purpose of insurance is so that you are NOT liable for damages.

This is so ridiculous.

Rolls eyes. Major duh!

Lot of people seem to be stuck on stupid these days, no?

543 Randall Gross  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:38:15pm

re: #323 Charles

I doubt it’s more than a couple hundred dollars. If these people aren’t even willing to come up with a couple hundred dollars to insure their protest, how committed are they really?

I went upstairs and into some old files, the insurance I paid in 1983 for several gatherings was 75 bucks. It probably hasn’t gone up too much since then. The security guard at a couple of them took it up to 300.00 I had 2000 people at one event, 500-1000 at the others.

544 kansas  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:38:42pm

re: #540 Emerald

There’s this thing called the telephone. It lets you talk to people who aren’t right next to you. There’s an even newer invention called e-mail where you can write to them. You pay with money. It’s not expensive. If you can’t afford it, you hook up with other people to share the costs. If you still can’t afford it, find an alternative. You don’t have the right to everything you want. If you want an event that runs the risk of causing a lot of damage, you have to pay for it.

Now that’s just smart ass.

545 MarkX  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:39:15pm
….clearly states that events with more than 500 attendees must have permits and insurance.

Too bad the Brits didn’t think on this one in 1775.

546 Emerald  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:39:25pm

re: #542 Catttt

Rolls eyes. Major duh!

Lot of people seem to be stuck on stupid these days, no?

This thread gives a lot of support to that idea.

547 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:40:28pm

re: #539 sattv4u2

Not smarter, but they DO this for a living, whereas most “conservative” protests are spawned by people that ,, well,,, have LIVES,,,, jobs, family obligations ,, etc

Yes, but apparently what they don’t have is the ability comply with city ordinances without getting apoplectic about it.

And as someone must have noted already, there are several “right wing” organizations that have no problem whatsoever when it comes to dotting all their i’s and crossing all their t’s for large gatherings on public property.

548 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:40:39pm

re: #543 Thanos

the insurance I paid in 1983 for several gatherings was 75 bucks.

We are WAY more litigious 25+ years later! The organizer and/ or their insurance carrier could be sued if someone there tripped over a curb and twisted their ankle. You think THAT would have happened in 1983?

549 kansas  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:41:33pm

re: #546 Emerald

This thread gives a lot of support to that idea.


Yeah. If we don’t agree with you, we are stupid.

550 sattv4u2  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:42:05pm

re: #547 Slumbering Behemoth

Yes, but apparently what they don’t have is the ability comply with city ordinances without getting apoplectic about it.

And as someone must have noted already, there are several “right wing” organizations that have no problem whatsoever when it comes to dotting all their i’s and crossing all their t’s for large gatherings on public property.

Oh yes. I agree with Charles, et al. Get the permit, get the insurance, do the “protest”

551 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:42:41pm

re: #473 summergurl

Maybe the issue here is she is calling it an “event”. If you protest and march in the streets would that be considered an event or freedom of speech?

Both.

Here in the SFBay Area, a parade requires a permit because the event blocks traffic, and requires the redirection of it. I think calling it an event is just a matter of semantics.

552 Catttt  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:44:17pm

re: #549 kansas

Yeah. If we don’t agree with you, we are stupid.

Has nothing to do with agreement. The Supreme Court has ruled that it is acceptable and allowed to have neutral regulation of mass gatherings - see Thomas v. Chicago Park Dist., No. 00-1249 (U.S. 01/15/2002).

This is not a free speech issue. To say that it is is ignorant.

553 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:50:07pm

re: #536 Slumbering Behemoth

Wow. So generally speaking, the CODE PINKOS are smarter, more organized, and more civics-savvy than the folks in the Tea Party?

How very sad.

It’s not sad. Code Pink has EXPERIENCE. Say what you will about them, but Code Pink is well organized with respect to having its ‘ducks lined up.’ My interactions with moonbats has led me to the conclusion that they are very well-read regarding their rights and what needs to be done to ensure that those rights are not infringed upon. This is something positive that can be taken from this group. Loathe your enemies all you want, but make sure to learn from them as well.

554 [deleted]  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:51:59pm
555 kansas  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 3:59:57pm

re: #552 Catttt

Has nothing to do with agreement. The Supreme Court has ruled that it is acceptable and allowed to have neutral regulation of mass gatherings - see Thomas v. Chicago Park Dist., No. 00-1249 (U.S. 01/15/2002).

This is not a free speech issue. To say that it is is ignorant.

Where was this called a free speech issue?

556 jvic  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 4:02:55pm

re: #508 Charles

If you want to be the organizer of a demonstration, it is incumbent on you to make sure you follow all the applicable regulations of the city where you’re holding the event.

Some city governments just might put bureaucratic obstacles in front of people that they disapprove of. And some city bureaucrats might take refuge in procedural CYA when an event starts looking bigger than they’d expected.

As I wrote before, I give the benefit of the doubt to the individual citizen.

Worthwhile discussion. I see that a case can be made for the city’s actions even though I don’t buy the case. IMHO I have nothing new to add and it’s unlikely that my mind will be changed. (And my DSL is acting wobbly: I’m right at the edge of the coverage zone.)

557 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 4:07:59pm

re: #556 jvic

Some city governments just might put bureaucratic obstacles in front of people that they disapprove of. And some city bureaucrats might take refuge in procedural CYA when an event starts looking bigger than they’d expected.

No one “put bureaucratic obstacles” in front of anyone. She did not follow the established rules. The city officials even said very clearly that if she got the necessary insurance they would allow the event to proceed.

558 tradewind  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 4:38:11pm

re: #3 Nevergiveup

Thank God and Greyhound, they’re gone…..

559 Munster  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 4:39:16pm

Wouldn’t it be interesting if the government rounded up the tea party protesters and hauled them to jail for not getting permission to exercise their RIGHT to assemble as GUARANTEED by the United States Constitution!
I never heard that the Boston Tea Party had the permission of the crown to carry out their protest.
Bull Honkey, they should have gone ahead with it anyhow.

560 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 4:41:11pm

re: #554 Iron Fist

Give this a read.

561 BLBfootballs  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 4:54:15pm

re: #556 jvic

Some city governments just might put bureaucratic obstacles in front of people that they disapprove of. And some city bureaucrats might take refuge in procedural CYA when an event starts looking bigger than they’d expected.

I don’t doubt that some governments/officials would be happy to use all manner of legal and bureaucratic obstacles to prevent speech by groups that disagree with them. (That is one of the fundamental assumptions of the Constitution!) And of course the bureaucratic mind will choose the zero-risk “easy” path whenever it can.

But there’s no indication that either of those things happened here.

So let’s not get all tinfoil’y about normal laws and standard regulations. Standards are standards. We can live with that (and it’s an awfully conservative-friendly position to boot!).

And I certainly agree that the insurance issue can be a hard problem for any group to solve…. and it could certainly become a de facto free speech chiller.

Have public demonstrations always needed private insurance coverage? I would’ve thought that for “normal” demonstrations (e.g. not involving neo-Nazis or whacked-out moonbats) either the municipality/county/state covers any fluke incidents…. or attendees understand that in the unlikely event that something bizarro happens nobody but an actual perpetrator is going to be liable. Has something changed?

562 Lynn B.  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 4:54:54pm

re: #277 SouthTexas

First Amendment?

Reasonable time, place and manner restrictions?

563 jvic  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 4:58:30pm

re: #557 Charles:

…The city officials even said very clearly that if she got the necessary insurance they would allow the event to proceed.

From the Wink link:

WINK News spoke to the director of parks for Cape Coral. He says that even now if Rosko is willing to get insurance for the event he’ll likely re-authorize it.

Afaic he hedged.

The Parks honcho could have said something like this:

“Ms. Rosko, this event might be bigger than I initially expected. The city could be exposed to liability, so I’d like you to buy insurance. Otherwise we might have to intervene if more than 500 people show up. To do this again, you need to understand the public-safety regulations that apply. We’ll work with you on that, of course.”

564 CapeCoddah  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 5:01:45pm

Hey all. This is not unusual at all. If a group of protesters does damage to city property, the residents should not be called upon to pay for damages. You would be pissed if someone came to your town and you ended up with the cleanup bill.
I see event insurance all the time with weddings, reunions, meeting etc… One can cover a wedding of up to 500 guests, including bodily injury, property damage and alcohol related issues for about $300,, with million dollar coverage in each category. Worth every penny, and any city or private property owner who does not require such insurance can only be called foolish.

565 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 5:05:42pm

re: #563 jvic

:

Afaic he hedged.

The Parks honcho could have said something like this:

“Ms. Rosko, this event might be bigger than I initially expected. The city could be exposed to liability, so I’d like you to buy insurance. Otherwise we might have to intervene if more than 500 people show up. To do this again, you need to understand the public-safety regulations that apply. We’ll work with you on that, of course.”

How do you know he didn’t say something like that?

And by the way, the insurance is NOT optional. The city regulations require it.

I really don’t get why this is so hard for some people to understand.

566 vero  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 5:26:28pm

re: #565 Charles

A Poll tax was a regulation as well - just because it is a regulation doesn’t make it right.

It is a moot point seen on Instapundit that it is now going forward

567 Gus  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 5:29:52pm
568 Gus  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 5:33:19pm

re: #567 Gus 802

Tea Party Back on in Coral City Cape Coral

I’ll assume they now have applied with the city and presented proof of insurance for the event.

Correction: Cape Coral

569 jvic  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 6:15:51pm

re: #565 Charles

How do you know he didn’t say something like that?

I don’t know, and IMO you don’t either. I give the benefit of the doubt to Rosko the citizen:

I was never told of all the requirements when I initially contacted Mr. Pohlman. These only came to bear when they felt I had stirred up the troops and too many people might show up, in their opinion. The rules kept getting more and more onerous.

And I think the city should have given Rosko the benefit of the doubt and not invoked the regulations that apply to 500+ people.

Charles:

And by the way, the insurance is NOT optional. The city regulations require it.

I really don’t get why this is so hard for some people to understand.

Maybe because they read the Winknews story:

With all of that attention, the City of Cape Coral felt there could be more than 500 people attending the tea party.

Therefore Rosko needed to get a permit and insurance for the event. [boldface mine—gs]

Btw, my reading of the permit page is that ‘special’ events require a permit but any event requires insurance, but the page doesn’t link to the text of the regulation.

Anyway, I’m glad that the party will proceed.

570 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 6:33:48pm

re: #569 jvic

Good grief. OK. If you want to insist that the evil Obamabots of Cape Coral are intent on suppressing freedom of speech for no reason, knock yourself out.

571 Wendya  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 6:38:06pm

re: #291 Sharmuta

Seriously- this is a microcosm of what ails the right.

We have no clue how grassroots movements work.

What ails the right is our determination to sit on our asses and wait for someone to come deliver us from whatever it is we’re upset about.

572 Gus  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 6:45:02pm

re: #569 jvic
Cape Coral, FL Code of Ordinances

CHAPTER 12: OFFENSES AND MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS

ARTICLE I: GENERAL PROVISIONS

§ 12-12 Temporary amusements involving city property; permit, insurance.

(a) Definitions. The following definitions shall apply to the terms used in this section.

OPERATOR. A party conducting or engaging in the business of providing temporary or transitory amusement, food, food products, entertainment, whether for profit or not for profit, regardless of whether admission charges are levied.

TEMPORARY AMUSEMENT. Any amusement with a fixed or approximate date of termination, usually of short duration, including but not limited to circuses, carnivals, amusements, rides, motion picture shows, shows of all kinds, all sporting contests or athletic events, holiday celebrations. Parades are not to be considered as temporary amusements for the purposes of this section.

(b) Insurance required. Every operator conducting or engaging in the business of providing temporary or transitory amusement or entertainment shall be subject to this section, wherever city property is involved. The person shall obtain a permit from the City Manager at least ten days in advance of the operations; provided, however, that before a permit shall be issued, the applicant for the same shall file with the City Clerk an indemnity agreement in a form approved by the City Attorney holding the city harmless for any liability occasioned by the activity conducted, and shall file certificate of insurance as described below with the city as an additional named insured. The minimum insurance coverage as required by this section shall include, but not be limited to, the following:

Comprehensive general liability

$1,000,000

Premises operations

$1,000,000

Products-completed operations

$1,000,000

Contractual liability

$1,000,000

Independent contractors

$1,000,000

Personal injury

$1,000,000

Comprehensive automobile liability

$1,000,000

Workers compensation

Statutory requirements

If beer, wine or any other liquor is to be dispensed, liquor liability shall be required; minimum limit

$1,000,000

(Ord. 1-84, §§ 1, 2, 2-6-1984)

573 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 7:06:29pm

I was just about to post a brilliant comment excoriating Big Brother Government for trampling all over our Constitution and its continuing efforts to strip away our civil rights (PATRIOT ACT anyone?), but I just noticed a few of Clinton’s, er Bush’s, um… Obama’s infamous Black Helicopters circling overhead, so I am gonna wait until they clear out before I post my super-awesome diatribe against The Man.
/

574 Catttt  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 7:23:35pm

re: #555 kansas

Where was this called a free speech issue?

Um - do I really need to answer that? The comments on the story? Comments here? Comments on other blogs? Blogs that are saying this flat out? By inference, the scare-tactic, misleading headline?

575 dwdw49  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 7:27:34pm

first of all, how do you know more than 500 people are going to attend? second of all, where in the constitution does it put a limit on those who want to peacefully petition their government? we are on a very slippery slope indeed.

576 Spar Kling  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 7:33:22pm

re: #308 Killian Bundy

It’s not an absolute right to publicly assemble without restriction.

/think Illinois Nazis

When you have to ask for permission to assemble, that’s not much of a right, is it?

I do understand limitations on rights when one person’s right infringes on someone else’s. I’m not very keen on assembly rights for those who would remove those rights, but who will be the judge of what groups are allowed to assemble and what groups are not?

-sk

577 hazzyday  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 7:33:41pm

As a past government customer service minion let it be known we all have our good days and our bad days. We are required to give a certain amount of help, but usually are waiting for 5 PM to roll around. Honest, well mannered, helpful people are always treated better than a grumpy, irritated, wild worded citizen. It’s best to talk to me in the AM. By 3 PM I am getting zonked out by the mind numbing explanations I have been giving all day long.

And let it be known that criminals get away with behavior that regular citizens have to pay for. Late on your payment and you have a job? You have to pay or else. You are a criminal in court? It can be negotiated out to a lower payment. It can be the exact same issue.

You’re a church and want to be included in the community calendar? My boss here doesn’t like churches and will take your application and trash can it using separation of church and state as a reason. (It actually happened)

Success in government intervention involves being polite, sticking to your reasons, and being persistent. That is just to get through the BS. You can still commonly run into government thought that it is “my way or the highway”, “ignorance is no excuse”, “we don’t have to tell you that unless you ask”.

Probably one of the biggest hurt put on the common citizen seeking assistance is the MSM doing an information request on a government agency. All personnel can be shifted to do data collection for two weeks straight and nothing else. This happened to me at least twice a year. And there is always a citizen or two that devote their lives to interrogating government offices about silly stuff that is important to them. They become famous is odd little circles of people you never hear about, but impact your property taxes.

578 Spar Kling  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 7:44:05pm

re: #299 Etaoin Shrdlu

This is one of a the few cases where I disagree with the Lizard King —

Yes and yes. The Bill of Rights wasn’t written with three pages of footnotes in 5pt Helvetica; “no law” means “no law”, not “provided your papers are in order”.

In my opinion, you’re right and it’s a big problem.

Some years ago, a Florida restaurant was brought to court for not soliciting enough minority applicants for their job openings. Witnesses were brought in who testified that the “word on the street” was that minorities need not apply. Never mind that the restaurant was minority owned. The court agreed and directed that all new hires would first have to be approved by the court. The restaurant owners complied, but they had their employees wear a button advertising that they were court-approved employees. The judge in the case was not amused and threatened contempt of court for “misuse of the first amendment.”

I probably did not get all my facts right but to have to go to court to determine whether something is or is not ok under the first amendment certainly means that you no longer have the right.

-sk

579 dwdw49  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 7:48:15pm

When you have to ask for permission to assemble, that’s not much of a right, is it?

I do understand limitations on rights when one person’s right infringes on someone else’s. I’m not very keen on assembly rights for those who would remove those rights, but who will be the judge of what groups are allowed to assemble and what groups are not?

dwdw49 says:

freedom is not about rights, it is about responsibility. that being said, how does a government know that petitioners will act irresponsibly? it is the function of the police to maintain order. i have not heard or seen any “tea party” out of control, so why would a local authority think that it will be out of control? did the framers think that insurance was necessary to petition the government?

580 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 8:13:23pm

The city government of Cape Coral has a duty to make sure that they aren’t sued into insolvency by someone who is injured at an event on city property. They are acting RESPONSIBLY.

And the tea party organizers are whining about it. Sorry, but I have absolutely no sympathy for the deceptive game they’re playing. Take out the insurance and follow the rules, or shut the hell up.

581 Soccer Fan  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 8:38:26pm

I have a comment - when for example a sports team wins a championship does the team need to have insurance for all of its fans that may assemble in the city square? I imagine no, as that is an impromptu affair. How about when people took the streets to protest Elian Gonzalez’ taking from his family? or Rodney Kings beating? or any other spontaneous occurrence? How about those flash mob thingies? I guess my point is why does a tea party need an official organizing entity? Just start a whisper campaign telling people to show up at such and such a place and such and such a time and you really want to tell me that a city won’t allow a peaceful assembly in a public place for lack of a permit? The negatives of having policemen not allow people to protest and dispersing crowds would reverberate and create even more public sympathy for the cause so I really don’t think the cities would block the parties.

582 Banner  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 10:54:11pm

So, if you can’t afford insurance, you aren’t entitled to freedom of speech…

Nice tactic that. Wonder if we’ll be seeing more of it?

583 Charles Johnson  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 10:56:57pm

re: #582 Banner

So, if you can’t afford insurance, you aren’t entitled to freedom of speech…

Nice tactic that. Wonder if we’ll be seeing more of it?

No, if you refuse to take out insurance when the city regulations require it in order to be responsible, you don’t get to hold your demonstration on city property.

Great googly moogly. The crazy dust is in the air tonight.

584 Banner  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 11:01:05pm

No. I’m not crazy, It’s really what it all boils down to: You can’t have a political gathering without buying insurance (what does that cost btw?) if the city thinks more than 500 people might show up.

That pretty much shoots freedom of assembly down right there, don’t you think. So the city has a regulation for it, so they’re following their regulation. Doesn’t mean that it’s legal, does it?

585 Roses  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 11:06:00pm

re: #214 The Other Les

I’d want to do an actual march on Washington on Independence Day.

I’d fly to join you - this is important. And the media could not ignore that.

586 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 11:12:16pm

re: #578 Spar Kling

In my opinion, you’re right and it’s a big problem.

Some years ago, a Florida restaurant was brought to court for not soliciting enough minority applicants for their job openings. Witnesses were brought in who testified that the “word on the street” was that minorities need not apply. Never mind that the restaurant was minority owned. The court agreed and directed that all new hires would first have to be approved by the court. The restaurant owners complied, but they had their employees wear a button advertising that they were court-approved employees. The judge in the case was not amused and threatened contempt of court for “misuse of the first amendment.”

I probably did not get all my facts right but to have to go to court to determine whether something is or is not ok under the first amendment certainly means that you no longer have the right.

-sk

Nope, you didn’t get your facts straight. The city is reasonable to ask for insurance; the intent is not suppress speech, but to protect itself against lawsuits.

587 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Mar 29, 2009 11:34:26pm

re: #583 Charles

The crazy dust is in the air tonight.

It’s being spread by a squadron of Black Helicopters stationed out of Cape Coral. It’s a mind control drug developed by city government officials designed to make True American Patriots forget about how Big Local Government is using fascistic, draconian, bureaucratic rules to silence our voices.

I mean seriously, why would any city require such jack-booted implements of oppression like permits and insurance for a large gathering of people on public property for an announced event?

I’ll tell you why. They’re obviously fascists.

/////NAZI FASCISTS!

588 A.W.  Mon, Mar 30, 2009 6:02:02am

I think the city should get the benefit of the doubt regarding the claim that there is politics behind it, but still, this strikes me as a content-neutral, but still overly repressive measure. I should be able to have a protest without becoming financially responsible for every moron who happens to show up.

Responsibility should run only as far as control does. And if you think a person calling up a group of 500 or more has any control over individuals, you are kidding yourself. The duty to control those crowds, to keep them within the range of “peaceful assembly” fall on the police, not on organizers, and the liability for failure should fall on the bad apples and the police, alone. Unless there is some kind of criminal incitement.

589 dwdw49  Mon, Mar 30, 2009 6:35:00am

old first amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

new first amendment-amendment:
…or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, that is unless the number is greater than 500, in which case any legal governing authority may set its own restrictions including but not limited to surety bonds, public liability insurance and or private public security forces. the governing authority at its discretion may dictate where the assembly is to be held and the hours that the said assembly will be permitted to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

590 gnargtharst  Mon, Mar 30, 2009 7:34:22am

The city may have a duty to protect itself from getting sued into insolvency, but they’ve already defaulted on that duty and are well on their way to insolvency anyway (I am a Cape Coral resident and know well about their fiscal responsibility).

Generally, though, I agree: event-planners should get a permit.

However, the event had morphed (before another party recently took the reins) into a spontaneous event, with no official sponsor. In that context, I don’t see *who* could get insurance. In the absence of an officially-named party sponsoring the event — i.e., a spontaneous rally — then presumably the city already has insurance.

591 medaura18586  Mon, Mar 30, 2009 7:52:38am

re: #274 Charles

Yes, the evil entrenched power of the Cape Coral city government. They’re notorious.

/gimme a break

Tea Parties would better avoid controversy wherever possible. There is nothing to be gained by adopting an explicitly adversarial position toward local authorities. If anything, such confrontational attitude over a reasonable requirement such as group insurance could attract the anarchist Ron Paul fringe element this movement could definitely do without. From a strategic standpoint, unless the imposed insurance fee is prohibitive, they should probably just gracefully comply.

592 Charles Johnson  Mon, Mar 30, 2009 8:34:18am

re: #591 medaura18586

Tea Parties would better avoid controversy wherever possible. There is nothing to be gained by adopting an explicitly adversarial position toward local authorities. If anything, such confrontational attitude over a reasonable requirement such as group insurance could attract the anarchist Ron Paul fringe element this movement could definitely do without. From a strategic standpoint, unless the imposed insurance fee is prohibitive, they should probably just gracefully comply.

The anarchist Ron Paul fringe is already deeply involved in these ‘tea parties’.

593 A.W.  Mon, Mar 30, 2009 9:34:14am

re: #592 Charles

The anarchist Ron Paul fringe is already deeply involved in these ‘tea parties’.

Well, I am creeped out by the Paulians, too, but let’s not allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good.

And i respectfully disagree on this regulation. It is apparently content nuetral, but i don’t think it is a reasonable restriction. I would be curious to see what the Supreme Court has to say on that, since we have a pretty strong free speech streak on the bench right now. But unless the insurance is alot less than i would rationally imagine it to be, i don’t see how this is a reasonable restriction.

but “reasonable” is a necessarily mushy term, of course, so rational minds can disagree on what is reasonable.

I think the cops just need to be ready to handle them if they get unruly, that is all, and yes, that means the community might have to pay more in taxes or whatever to do it. so what? that is what freedom is about.

594 Emerald  Mon, Mar 30, 2009 9:57:48am

re: #593 A.W.

I would be curious to see what the Supreme Court has to say on that, since we have a pretty strong free speech streak on the bench right now.


Check out the comments. SCOTUS already heard arguments about permits/insurance and ruled that it’s not an unreasonable request.

Every friggin’ day groups manage to get permits to hold gatherings. For a vast, evil conspiracy to silence the people, it sure sucks as far as effectiveness goes. Or maybe that’s the chemical contrails talking…

595 Scannit  Mon, Mar 30, 2009 10:28:54am

Some are complaining that they should just go and get the permit and insurance, ANSWER does it, so should these guys.

But ANSWER is a political organization with fund-raising. I wonder if the organizer of this event just thought it would be a good way for people gather and show the government our disapproval. Not specifically as an ‘organized event’ of this magnitude. Although seeing the responses probably put a smile on their face.

Getting the permit is one thing, a reasonable request from the local government But does anyone have any first hand knowledge on how much insurance would cost for an event like this? Maybe the organizer is just a normal schmo, like you and me, and just can’t afford to shell out extra money for the insurance? And asking for ‘Admittance’ to the event might set some people off, implying that its a revenue generator for the organizer.

Has any other organization offered to cover the insurance for the event?

596 Emerald  Mon, Mar 30, 2009 10:38:08am

re: #595 Scannit

ANSWER isn’t the only group that holds rallies and whatnot. Lots of small, non-professional organizations manage this trivial task on a daily basis. It’s not a case of big, mean government. It’s a case of whiny, unorganized rally sponsor.

597 A.W.  Mon, Mar 30, 2009 10:47:49am

re: #594 Emerald

Check out the comments. SCOTUS already heard arguments about permits/insurance and ruled that it’s not an unreasonable request.

Every friggin’ day groups manage to get permits to hold gatherings. For a vast, evil conspiracy to silence the people, it sure sucks as far as effectiveness goes. Or maybe that’s the chemical contrails talking…

First, a person can rationally question whether a speech restriction is too restrictive without wearing a tin foil hat. So stow the ad homs, okay?

And as a matter of fact, the case law would seem to go the opposite way. In Forsythe, mentioned above, the Court said:

> The county envisions that the administrator, in appropriate instances, will assess a fee to cover “the cost of necessary and reasonable protection of persons participating in or observing said … activit[y].” In order to assess accurately the cost of security for parade participants, the administrator ” ‘must necessarily examine the content of the message that is conveyed,’” estimate the response of others to that content, and judge the number of police necessary to meet that response. The fee assessed will depend on the administrator’s measure of the amount of hostility likely to be created by the speech based on its content. Those wishing to express views unpopular with bottle-throwers, for example, may have to pay more for their permit.

(citations omitted)

Now, I would doubt that the insurance company in question would ignore the content of the marchers’ message. I mean seriously, if you were an insurance company, and you had two groups wanting to march through Skokie, Illinois, would you really charge as much for the Yom Kippur parade as the NeoNazi movement? We all know one is more likely to cause violence than the others, the only question is whether this insurance takes account for that reality.

And the supreme court has said that even if content neutral, the restrictions still have to leave a lot of alternatives open. A fee that is too high can be a violation of the first amendment, even if content-neutral.

So I don’t think there is an conspiracy, except maybe to avoid all demonstrations and their attendant costs. And if you read the facts in Forsythe, you can see why a community might not want any protests at all. But, unfortunately, they don’t get to have that choice.

598 medaura18586  Mon, Mar 30, 2009 11:23:10am

re: #592 Charles

The anarchist Ron Paul fringe is already deeply involved in these ‘tea parties’.

Sad but true. I was impressed with the rightful moral indignation of Rick Santelli’s rant on CNBC. Too many unprecedented governmental outrages in rapid succession are desensitizing public opinion to the point that the default response to the latest jaw-dropper (e.g., the nationalization of General Motors) is glassy-eyed apathy. The Republicans’ partisan talking point are already stale. It’s as if Americans have lost the capacity for outrage.

The ‘tea parties’ held promising prospects for shaking off the apathy, and catalyzing the awakening of common sense in America. But they are rapidly devolving into disaffection for the sake of disaffection. When Ron Paulists co-opt your movement, you are sinking.

Sad… no focus, no purpose, no solutions. All of this while Obama is committing blunder after blunder — easy targets for ample and effective criticism and counter-proposals. Rare opportunities are being squandered here. Not good.

599 threeCents  Thu, Apr 2, 2009 7:03:03am

I wonder if the city is using their law to prevent “…right of the people to peaceably assemble”. as stated in the First Amendment. I think that it doesn’t really matter if the city is being reasonable or not. The city seems to be preventing the exercise of the protesters 1st Amendment rights by virtue of the insurance requirement, however smart it may be to have it.


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