Praise "Bob"!

Neither.

So soon? Or is the LNDT yet to come?

Maybe now I have a shot at not replying to comments that were made 200 comments ago.

Is this the FMDT?

Who is John Galt?

Sunset above a sea of clouds. San Gabriel Mountains of California. Towercam. Pacific time zone.

Good Evening all.

We are each circling the drain. Along the river vortex we rise from the seeds we've sewn. Some pass through never knowing nor wanting to know. Others find infinite survival in the higher baptismal flow.

Howdy, barkeep! Two fingers, please!

Science!

Yes, I'm being more than a little sarcastic. My high school counselor warned me about this.

re: #7 Mirage

Who is John Galt?

Re-reading that now

There are plenty of religious monsters, and anyone who claims otherwise is deluded, lying or both.

Atheists: evil monsters, or immoral monsters?

Why can't we be both, like the late Earl Warren?

re: #8 Ojoe

Wow....look at all that Global Warming Climate Change.

re: #7 Mirage

Who is John Galt?

The answer is about 1500 pages long in hardcover.

re: #8 Ojoe

Sunset above a sea of clouds. San Gabriel Mountains of California. Towercam. Pacific time zone.

Good Evening all.

Really cool tonight!

11XX in soft

re: #16 Fenway_Nation

Not that the climatic has been static, ever.

re: #20 Ojoe

Not that the climatic has been static, ever.

So we've got Climatic and Anti-Climatic?

arrogant,and anti-knowledge

I forgot how much BS Hank Reardon got from the fam!

re: #12 Charles

And it's probably in your permanent record.

The spectrum of human mental dispositions runs the gamut.
John Brown was a Christian, and some would say a terrorist.
Joan of Arc saw visions, and she would draw scrutiny from a shrink, if she ever saw one.
So would John the Baptist, for sure.
It defies pat analysis, IMHO.
Good subject for a Masters thesis.

Intellectuals or contrarians?

Cool video of programmed cell death

re: #23 venomx

arrogant,and anti-knowledge

Huh?

The only purpose of life is to reproduce it's self!
The only purpose to sentience is to control life's environment!

re: #13 jamgarr

Re-reading that now

My hardcover copy is at my mother's house. A three hour drive. I should have one or two paperbacks stashed away around here though.

and closed-minded

No other choices? Darn.

re: #31 The Other Les

My hardcover copy is at my mother's house. A three hour drive. I should have one or two paperbacks stashed away around here though.

The font size is smaller than I remembered!

I am a Christian.

One of the most moral, kindest, best people I have ever known was an atheist. I am glad I knew him.

Nothing more to say about that.

Atheists: evil monsters, or immoral monsters?

Like Sharm said, neither. Religion can help a person be good, but it is not essential to being good.

Looks like we got a live one here.

re: #26 rawmuse

The spectrum of human mental dispositions runs the gamut.
John Brown was a Christian, and some would say a terrorist.
Joan of Arc saw visions, and she would draw scrutiny from a shrink, if she ever saw one.
So would John the Baptist, for sure.
It defies pat analysis, IMHO.
Good subject for a Masters thesis.

All groups, sub-cultures, religions, and professions are represented by an equal representation of both typical and atypical human behaviors and types.

re: #34 jamgarr

The font size is smaller than I remembered!

I think it was called eight-point eyestrain.

Our Government Engaged In EXTORTION With Our Banks!

By Judge Andrew Napolitano
FOX News Senior Judicial Analyst

The Federal government committed extortion and they’re not being held accountable. What’s next? Listen to this: I recently met with the Chair and CEO of one of the country’s top 10 bank holding companies. His bank is worth in excess of $250 billion, has no bad debt, no credit default swaps, no liquidity problems, and no subprime loans. He told me that he and others were forced by Treasury and FDIC threats to take TARP funds, even though he did not want or need them.

There is simply no authority in the U.S. Constitution for Congress to exercise the level of control it now seeks over private industry.

The FDIC — with Treasury backing — threatened to conduct public audits of his bank unless his board created and issued a class of stock for the Feds to buy. The audit, which he is confident his bank would survive, would cost it millions in employee time, bad press, and consequent lost business.

He pleaded with the Feds to leave his successful bank alone. He begged his board to let him tell the Feds to take a hike. But they gave in. The Feds are now just a tiny shareholder, but want to begin asserting more and more control. This is a classic extortion: Controlling someone’s free will by threatening to perform a lawful act. (Blackmail is the threat is to perform an unlawful act in order to control someone else’s free will.) There are no exceptions in the statutes prohibiting extortion for government persons

This happened in September 2008, but the demands for more control are more recent. It sounds to me like Paulson, Geithner, Bernanke, and Sheila Blair have all read a biography of Benito Mussolini. I guess they skipped the last chapter.

There is simply no authority in the U.S. Constitution for Congress to exercise the level of control it now seeks over private industry. In fact, this level of control will wind up costing the businesses that took TARP (voluntarily or involuntarily) money since they will lose key employees who will go to work elsewhere and because the reporting requirements will take time and time is money. The Constitution basically says that if the government wants to take time or freedom or money from someone or something, it must sue for it. It cannot just give itself the authority to do so via legislation. ...

re: #31 The Other Les

My hardcover copy is at my mother's house. A three hour drive. I should have one or two paperbacks stashed away around here though.

That's some serious devotion. I'm afraid I've never been able to get through more than a few pages of Ayn Rand.

re: #12 Charles

Yes, I'm being more than a little sarcastic. My high school counselor warned me about this.

When did you stop beating your monster?

re: #29 Sharmuta

if you think humanity is the highest form of existence,and theres nothing superior ,thats arrogance.

re: #39 The Other Les

I think it was called eight-point eyestrain.

Nothin' my 1.75s can't handle!

Yep. A live one.

re: #33 coloradobuff

No other choices? Darn.

On the order of a CNN poll about pretty much anything?

Venomx we can only have one tfk. You're not him.

What are you trying to say?

re: #43 venomx

If you think making assumptions about what I think makes you superior, then you've made an ass of yourself.

Atheists: evil monsters, or immoral monsters?

Atheists can be anything they aspire to be.

re: #45 Charles

Yep. A live one.

I'll pop some popcorn and get another beer.

There are atheists who don't believe in God, and there are atheists who believe there is no God. Not a slight difference. One is based on logic, the other is based on faith.

re: #43 venomx

if you think humanity is the highest form of existence,and theres nothing superior ,thats arrogance.

what other form of life,has better puntshuayshun than wedo?

re: #48 Sharmuta

well you obviously needed an explanation.suck my ass.

re: #43 venomx

He's hot to go .. and rarin ...

Wots 'e on about?

Going, going . . .

Maybe venomx is really "Dr." mspfacs. Call in the forensic document analysts!

We have a venomx and a venomX.
Interesting and boring at the same time.

Why do we have to choose? Can't we be both?

re: #53 venomX

I sought clarification. In the future I'll know better than to seek it from you.

re: #41 doppelganglander

That's some serious devotion. I'm afraid I've never been able to get through more than a few pages of Ayn Rand.

I was working in contract security at the time. Lots of time to sit down and read. And at the time it was also easier for me to pick up a used copy than to dig around the boxes I used to store my personal library.

re: #53 venomX

Nice! I'm sure that made Jesus proud.

Stick needed, see No. 53.

The band Rush dedicated their album 2112 to Ayn Rand.

Ayn Rand books left me feeling somewhat empty. I'd have to try one again to see if it goes down any better.

J. Michael Straczynski, the creator and writer of Babylon 5, is an atheist, and yet treated religion quite respectfully and very well in the TV show.
In fact, one of the most powerful episodes (though not part of the story line), is Passing Through Gethsemane, which treats several aspects of crime, punishment, and religion.
So not all atheists are evil.

I think there is an atheist conspiracy to silence the paranoiacs.

re: #43 venomx

if you think humanity is the highest form of existence,and theres nothing superior ,thats arrogance.

It's the highest form of life that we know of. That's science.

re: #56 doppelganglander

Maybe venomx is really "Dr." mspfacs. Call in the forensic document analysts!

Oh goody! Another episode of CSI:LGF

Cool!

"Its a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" is on AMC now.

re: #53 venomX

Would it be impolite to announce that were you in my vicinity you would be picking yourself up off of yours?

re: #13 jamgarr

Re-reading that now

Me too. Great book.

re: #15 Occasional Reader

Heh, beat me to that one.

re: #43 venomx

if you think humanity is the highest form of existence,and theres nothing superior ,thats arrogance.

I don't know... I wouldn't deny humanity being enslaved or wiped out by extraterrestrial aliens someday.

Atheists - NOT MONSTERS - In my way of reasoning - WRONG, AND Still Fellow Humans. That is all.

-S-

venomX and venomx. Instant sockpuppet.
Is this like in Diablo 2 when Baal summons his clone and their names are slightly different?

re: #51 Mich-again

There are atheists who don't believe in God, and there are atheists who believe there is no God. Not a slight difference. One is based on logic, the other is based on faith.

On occasion I would wish that there really was a God and that he would come down and clean up this mess.

re: #59 buzzsawmonkey

On the other hand, I have seen gargoyles on cathedrals.

Gargoyles? Those French waiters?

re: #74 Dr. Shalit

Atheists - NOT MONSTERS - In my way of reasoning - WRONG, AND Still Fellow Humans. That is all.

-S-

There's a lot of "wrong" people in this world. ;)

re: #53 venomX

well you obviously needed an explanation.suck my ass.

Is that the best you got? You are so F*cked..

re: #53 venomX

well you obviously needed an explanation.suck my ass.

What kind of fucking little 12 year old are you? Get out of your stinky bedroom, but on some clean clothes and get outside and realize that you are not the only asshole in this world. There are a whole tribe of them, waiting for you.

re: #53 venomX

Really? Are you serious. Did you just type that?

re: #53 venomX

The hammer descendeth from on high, we knowest where it shalt strike.

re: #62 Jim D

you think im a creationist jesus freak?nah.just saying you so-called self fancied"intellectuals" are not as smart as you think you are.and charles to call me a live one...ehh.i like you man but i dont j/o to everything you say or believe in.sorry

re: #62 Jim D

Nice! I'm sure that made Jesus proud.

Ah...no kidding.
I doubt a true Christian would have said "suck my a$$'.

re: #53 venomX

well you obviously needed an explanation.suck my ass.

Have you been into the Lemon Pledge again?

Sorry Charles, I'm AGNOSTIC on this issue.

(And I won't spend a nickel to see Bill Maher!)

re: #66 Hhar

That's some karma you got there. -80? Yikes.

Charles, you know how to bring 'em in doncha?

Evil or immoral? These things are not mutually exclusive.

re: #80 buzzsawmonkey

I see we've been to the same Paris restaurants.

No French jokes. French rules.

This is so cool.
And the chick's voice is sexy,too.

re: #40 J.D.

You do realize that Andrew Napolitano is the goof-up who let Alex Jones on a Fox web show. I'm not sure if he has much credibility at this point.

re: #67 Walter L. Newton

and arrogance.

Atheists: evil monsters, or immoral monsters?

Are you a good witch, or a bad witch?
- Dorothy, The Wizard of Oz

re: #84 venomX

you think im a creationist jesus freak?nah.just saying you so-called self fancied"intellectuals" are not as smart as you think you are.and charles to call me a live one...ehh.i like you man but i dont j/o to everything you say or believe in.sorry

You type creepily.

Reading the headline I missed the word Athiests, and thought you were referring to Obama, in which case I wondered why you didn't use the word amoral rather than immoral. Sorry. Tired eyes.

re: #84 venomX

you think im a creationist jesus freak?nah.just saying you so-called self fancied"intellectuals" are not as smart as you think you are.and charles to call me a live one...ehh.i like you man but i dont j/o to everything you say or believe in.sorry

See, until you said that, I didn't know who the live one was. Dipshit.

When I was an atheist I was neither evil nor immoral, but I was a hell of a lot more sarcastic than I am now.

re: #84 venomX

you think im a creationist jesus freak?nah.just saying you so-called self fancied"intellectuals" are not as smart as you think you are.and charles to call me a live one...ehh.i like you man but i dont j/o to everything you say or believe in.sorry

But you evidently jerk off too much, fried your brain, ass-wad.

re: #86 Occasional Reader

Have you been into the Lemon Pledge again?

Lemon Pledge - A swearing of loyalty to pres 44

Did I miss the blood letting?

I think I'm smart, but only compared to some.

Maybe venomX is just upset because he went to a Catholic school and the nuns punished him for his bad grammar, incomprehensible writing , and incorrect punctuation, so he's taking it out on the rest of us.

re: #102 ArmyWife

Did I miss the blood letting?

No, you got time.

Immoral, bad
Amoral, possibly bad, but only defined by actions, not philosophy
Moral, can't beat it.

re: #92 Dark_Falcon

You do realize that Andrew Napolitano is the goof-up who let Alex Jones on a Fox web show. I'm not sure if he has much credibility at this point.

I know nothing about that, but I think he may have a point here.

re: #53 venomX

noob

re: #84 venomX

Hey. I honestly think Jesus would be impressed with you. I certainly am.

Newt Gingrich has a twitter thread all his own, which I discovered today:

Newt's Tweets

did i ever say i was christian?sheesh. all i said was arrogance and anti-knowledge

re: #109 buzzsawmonkey

A ban on French jokes? Paris the thought!

Be Nice.

re: #53 venomX

OK, who let the troll in?

GAZE

(and I'll get the charcoal bag out to the grill)

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is my co-pilot. ;-)

re: #93 venomX

and arrogance.

Common sense, Einstein.

re: #1 The Other Les

Praise "Bob"!

Yeah!

To answer the question: atheists are just lacking the whole picture.

LIKE ALL OF US.

"I don't pretend to understand the universe - it's much bigger than I am. " - Einstein, who believed in Spinoza's God

re: #95 buzzsawmonkey

Ever been sad that you were not first to ding a comment? Nice, Buzz.

re: #84 venomX

.and charles to call me a live one...ehh.i like you man but i dont j/o to everything you say or believe in.sorry

I'm sure Charles is crushed to hear it.

Atheists: evil monsters, or immoral monsters?

Neither. Not believing in God does not equate to evil or immorality. A person can be an atheist and still lead a moral life, where moral is defined in terms of what is accepted in society.

People who do believe in God can potentially lead evil or immoral lives. It's all in what you do in the world.

re: #101 Buster Bunny

Lemon Pledge - A swearing of loyalty to pres 44

Ow!

Ow! Ow! Ow!

re: #40 J.D.

I'm worried about shenanigans like this. But first consider:

- Napolitano is given to fits of exaggeration
- Banks that offer FDIC insurance have to follow FDIC dictate
- Almost everything the govt does is extortion.

Now for what may be behind the FDIC move, this is what I've heard: The Feds are worried that "sick" banks will be abandoned for sound ones, and that may cause some of the "sick" banks like Citi to go under, or at least require billions more in taxpayer aid. They are trying to avoid this by forcing all banks to jump on the TARP bandwagon whether they need to or not.

Now I don't put it past the power grabbers in Obama's administration from biting off too much, given the (allegedly) dire situation that Obama doesn't want to "waste" in his pursuit of anti-Capitalism. But this is something that can get hashed out in the courts. FDR lost tons of battles in the courts, and the Carter/LBJ era judges are becoming few and far between.

re: #102 ArmyWife

Did I miss the blood letting?

Hi you..been while, Hope you are well

re: #109 buzzsawmonkey

A ban on French jokes? Paris the thought!

You Lyon son of a ...

re: #102 ArmyWife

Did I miss the blood letting?

Not yet, but fire up the grill, the troll should be whacked soon.

re: #104 Kosh's Shadow

Maybe venomX is just upset because he went to a Catholic school and the nuns punished him for his bad grammar, incomprehensible writing , and incorrect punctuation, so he's taking it out on the rest of us.

Or maybe, or just maybe, he's handicapped?

re: #103 Sharmuta

I think I'm smart, but only compared to some.

You are smart compared to even those who inhabit Mount Olympus.

re: #115 SDC

The Flying Spaghetti Monster is my co-pilot. ;-)

WHAT?

NO-ONE TOLD YOU? SPAGHETTI MONSTERS CANT FLY !

re: #109 buzzsawmonkey

A ban on French jokes? Paris the thought!

You have a lot of Gaul!

There are boggie men everywhere

re: #126 Kosh's Shadow

Not yet, but fire up the grill, the troll should be whacked soon.

But first we must remove the "venom" before we serve the gamey buttocks!

//

I'm closer to being an atheist than ever before in my life, and I've never felt more spiritual.
Hard to explain it. Ever since I stopped trying to force my faith and let it go..........

.....and I don't feel immoral or monstrous at all...........

My question would be. Do Atheists believe in sin? I always fail to ask.

I say immoral, because obviously morality can only come from the genocidal God(s) of the desert tribes.

re: #36 Dark_Falcon

Like Sharm said, neither. Religion can help a person be good, but it is not essential to being good.

Religion can also help a person be bad. Ever hear of suicide bombers?

re: #135 hazzyday

My question would be. Do Atheists believe in sin? I always fail to ask.

Right and wrong? Sure, IMO.

Where else on the web can you find quality entertainment like this?

Ok, I was wrong. How did this one get a capital "X" at the end of the name, sometimes, and a lowercase one other times? Looked at the last few posts, and both names show up.

Are our usernames not case-sensitive?

-taQ (?)

re: #125 Occasional Reader

You Lyon son of a ...

That's a Nice one.

re: #128 Walter L. Newton

wow arent you classy.would it please you if i was?mr.intellectual?

re: #109 buzzsawmonkey

A ban on French jokes? Paris the thought!

Stop. The French don't deserve such treatment. Have you ever been to France? Have you ever hob-nob along the quay's of the Seine, taking in the culture and the wonderful inhabitants of Paris?

You can't joke about that.

re: #137 Optimizer

Religion can also help a person be bad. Ever hear of suicide bombers?

Hence my #14.

re: #43 venomx

if you think humanity is the highest form of existence,and theres nothing superior ,thats arrogance.

Well, I have actually contemplated the magnificence of the sand crab. Does that make me a bad Christian?

What is monstrous about a mere man, anyway?

re: #127 venomX

Charles, will you please boot this nasty little piece of garbage?

re: #84 venomX

I doubt anyone thinks you are a creationist, or a Jesus freak (whatever that is) either.

I think you are kinda cute, that's all.

But then again, I think pentastomids are cute.

(look it up!)

re: #45 Charles

Yep. A live one.

DRADIS contact, heading 144 carom 33. Starbuck, Hotdog, check him out.

re: #102 ArmyWife

HEY! Moved yet? It's a bitch, ain't it?

I think venomX is even cooler than Spacejesus!

re: #123 kingkenrod

Time will tell.

re: #144 Walter L. Newton

But if we can't tease France, who can we tease?

re: #139 Charles

Where else on the web can you find quality entertainment like this?

* * **
You really know how to get the party going Charles!

re: #94 Spare O'Lake

Are you a good witch, or a bad witch?
- Dorothy Glinda, the Witch of the North, The Wizard of Oz

re: #139 Charles

Where else on the web can you find quality entertainment like this?

It is going into the top fav's..Come on Charles let him live a little bit longer..
I'll take one for the team...

re: #133 Gus 802

But first we must remove the "venom" before we serve the gamey buttocks!

//

You have to remove the brain; that's where the venom lies, and that can take a microscope.
Also you need to remove trolls' bleeding hearts; that can get very messy.
(Paraphrased from a troll recipe I sent reine)

President "Bobby": Mr. Gardner, do you agree with Ben, or do you think that we can stimulate growth through temporary incentives?
[Long pause]
Chance the Gardener: As long as the roots are not severed, all is well. And all will be well in the garden.
President "Bobby": In the garden.
Chance the Gardener: Yes. In the garden, growth has it seasons. First comes spring and summer, but then we have fall and winter. And then we get spring and summer again.
President "Bobby": Spring and summer.
Chance the Gardener: Yes.
President "Bobby": Then fall and winter.
Chance the Gardener: Yes.
Benjamin Rand: I think what our insightful young friend is saying is that we welcome the inevitable seasons of nature, but we're upset by the seasons of our economy.
Chance the Gardener: Yes! There will be growth in the spring!
Benjamin Rand: Hmm!
Chance the Gardener: Hmm!
President "Bobby": Hm. Well, Mr. Gardner, I must admit that is one of the most refreshing and optimistic statements I've heard in a very, very long time.
[Benjamin Rand applauds]

re: #143 venomX

wow arent you classy.would it please you if i was?mr.intellectual?

I don't give a fuck. Next question.

All evil acts are immoral, but not all immoral acts are evil.

re: #148 Dark_Falcon

Charles, will you please boot this nasty little piece of garbage?

Give him a minute. Troll fun is like a cat with a mouse .. you want to play with it a little while before you decide its lunch.

re: #124 HoosierHoops

It is! I've been in and out today. Moving to Virginia is keeping me busy! I am home right now staging the house to sell, dumpster arrives Saturday and all kinds of stuff going in it. Storage room rented today - all kinds of stuff going in that. Right now I'm moving all the boxes to the living room so at least the mess is confined - but it's still messy!

Add house hunting to the mix, and well - chaos. I do have an apartment in Virginia now - I've never lived in an apartment. I've never lived by myself!

re: #153 Jim D

I think venomX is even cooler than Spacejesus!

Wouldn't that be a fun cage match? lol

Atheists:

Gambling that the roulette ball won't land on red or black.

re: #137 Optimizer

Religion can also help a person be bad. Ever hear of suicide bombers?

Yep, I have. But, all things considered, I still think religion is a force for good overall. Some religions are better than others in that overall.

re: #144 Walter L. Newton

Stop. The French don't deserve such treatment. Have you ever been to France? Have you ever hob-nob along the quay's of the Seine, taking in the culture and the wonderful inhabitants of Paris?

You can't joke about that.

Want to buy some French rifles? Never fired and only dropped once.

re: #64 hazzyday

Forget it, just keep listening to RUSH and you'll forget all about that Rand character.

venomX finds himself at the center of said vortex with very little time to plant a new seed of existence.

re: #143 venomX

Synapse jerky

re: #140 buzzsawmonkey

If they are Spanish-speaking, they not only believe in "sin," they manage to do without it.

I believe in living sin pecado.

(Translation: Living in sin with fish)

BBIAB - I have to post this weeks LOST article on Doc Arzt. Leave the gamy parts for me, back in a few.

re: #140 buzzsawmonkey

If they are Spanish-speaking, they not only believe in "sin," they manage to do without it.

* * **
We call them PECADOS, Los Siete Pecados Mortales.

Some Spaniard wrote a hysterical book about the 7 deadly sins. Guess you had to be there.

re: #166 Cognito

Atheists:

Gambling that the roulette ball won't land on red or black.

Atheists:

Deciding that the glass isnt half full or half empty .. its just a glass.

re: #159 Kosh's Shadow

You have to remove the brain; that's where the venom lies, and that can take a microscope.
Also you need to remove trolls' bleeding hearts; that can get very messy.
(Paraphrased from a troll recipe I sent reine)

Yes, the brain has to be removed in order to prevent Mad Cow Troll Disease. If not one becomes a Mad Troll having a Cow about anything and everything!

//

re: #167 Dark_Falcon

Yep, I have. But, all things considered, I still think religion is a force for good overall. Some religions are better than others in that overall.

That's why it comes down to the individual, and not the belief system.

re: #144 Walter L. Newton

Stop. The French don't deserve such treatment. Have you ever been to France? Have you ever hob-nob along the quay's of the Seine, taking in the culture and the wonderful inhabitants of Paris?

You can't joke about that.

Oh, please.

re: #165 Sharmuta

battle royal idiotarian edition

re: #135 hazzyday

My question would be. Do Atheists believe in sin? I always fail to ask.

Sin, as I understand the concept, is an offense against the divine power. So from where I'm standing the answer would have to be in the negative.

Sin = self harm for the most part.
Gluttony, Pride, Envy, Lust, Greed, Sloth, Anger, Lust all result in ultimate harm to the self.
So do atheists believe in sin? I'd say it's likely.

re: #166 Cognito

Atheists:

Gambling that the roulette ball won't land on red or black.

What?

Let's get to the important issues. venomx, what is your position on vaccines and autism?

re: #146 rightymouse

re: #68 Killer Tomato

Oh goody! Another episode of CSI:LGF

Grissom: "I've got crabs!"

Willows: "Thank you for NOT sharing!"

Grissom: "Under the microscope, Catherine."

Ban-stick in 5-4-3-2...

re: #69 stevieray

Cool!

"Its a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World" is on AMC now.

Right, Wrong, and Meaningless

• "Why do I keep dropping things?"
• "It’s the shoons."
• "What are shoons?"
• "Invisible beings that pull things out of your hands and throw them on the floor."
• "Why would I believe that?"
• "Well, if you can’t disprove it, you have to believe it."
• "But you didn’t prove it."
• "I can feel them. You can feel them too You’re just in denial."
• "Well I don’t believe it."
• "So you are an ashoonist."
• "What’s an ashoonist?"
• "One who arbitrarily refuses to believe in shoons. You wonder why you drop things, but you arbitrarily reject the explanation."
• "Okay then, I’m an ashoonist."
• "But ashoonists are all cynics and killjoys! Is that the kind of company you want to keep?"

What a silly way to argue! Or is it? If you separate the method of argument from the content, then you might notice that it is the most common of all methods of argument: the arbitrary declaration. They say that something is so, and you have to either disprove it or agree with it. Refusing to do either is joining the Meanies.

It’s a paradox. You cannot reject an assertion without reason, but you could waste the whole day finding reasons to reject arbitrary assertions. An epistemology of reason solves the paradox by taking away permission to make assertions in the first place without reasons.

Come to think of it, where did that permission come from? If an assertion does not come with an observable connection to reality, why would anybody pay attention to it? Well, if it has to be either right or wrong, then you have to decide which, and you have to be reasonable. So you can’t reject anything without disproving it.

But what if a statement could be something else besides right or wrong? What if it could also be simply meaningless?

Right and wrong are relationships to reality – correspondence and non-correspondence. To judge a statement as right or wrong, you compare it to reality, by finding what part of reality it compares to. If a statement does not say what part of reality it compares to, then it is presented without connection to reality. It could mean all sorts of things, depending on where it fits in reality. Since that is not specified, it means nothing. It conveys words, but not meaning. Since you cannot call it right, and you cannot call it wrong, you call it arbitrary. Arbitrary means lacking any evidence of a relationship to reality.

To treat arbitrary assertions as right is to be a self-made sucker. To treat them as wrong is to try judging without evidence. The objective way is to realize that assertions without evidence are meaningless. No matter how much emotion they contain, nothing has been said.

Here’s a completion of the original argument:

• "Wait! Before you told me about the shoons, was I a shoonist, or an ashoonist?"
• "Well, neither. That word just meant nothing to you."
• "And it still means nothing to me. Try me again when you’ve got evidence."

People who would have you abandon reason by utilizing generalities, are trying to sell you smoke.

And that, itself, is a generality.

re: #185 venomX

Well said. Specific, non-intellectual and to the point.

re: #161 Walter L. Newton

do you spit or swallow?

If you go to the Museum of Natural History in Manhattan, there is a descending ramp which is the exit from the Planetarium. It is a time line for creation, and as you descend the long spiral ramp, it takes you through the ages of the universe and earth. It is a long descent.

At the end is a human hair, which represents the entire time that hominids have been around, in the scale of that representation.

So, humans are either the very crown of creation, or a mere blip on the cosmic radar screen.

They live as atheist, die as repentants. Too late. A misunderstanding of redemption.

re: #26 rawmuse

The spectrum of human mental dispositions runs the gamut.
John Brown was a Christian, and some would say a terrorist.
Joan of Arc saw visions, and she would draw scrutiny from a shrink, if she ever saw one.
So would John the Baptist, for sure.
It defies pat analysis, IMHO.
Good subject for a Masters thesis.

John Brown challenges me. His cause was righteous. His means were horrifying, and without a doubt terroristic--and yet, eventually, his cause, among other things, would lead to a war that make his actions look, if not mild, right at home. I look at him, and try to assess him, and it's not easy. What do others make of the man?

re: #143 venomX

I'm thinking "?mr.intellectual?" answers the question in and of itself, actually.

re: #193 venomX

do you spit or swallow?

This is not a dating site, and I'm pretty sure Walter isn't your type.

re: #193 venomX

Real classy.

re: #172 Occasional Reader

oh my - I think there is counseling for that. I hope, at least.

Atheists: evil monsters, or immoral monsters?

Here is the popcorn!

re: #196 SanFranciscoZionist

John Brown challenges me. His cause was righteous. His means were horrifying, and without a doubt terroristic--and yet, eventually, his cause, among other things, would lead to a war that make his actions look, if not mild, right at home. I look at him, and try to assess him, and it's not easy. What do others make of the man?

I have a hard time getting past all that sword butchery.

re: #166 Cognito

Atheists:

Gambling that the roulette ball won't land on red or black.

Now you got me doing it. Atheists haiku.

re: #184 buzzsawmonkey

I thought The Pecado was that operetta by Gilbert and Sullivan that was set in a Japanese fishing village.

* * * *
That was The Mikado, silly!
(Did you see "Topsy Turvy" the great movie about the making of the Mikado?)

re: #183 doppelganglander

Let's get to the important issues. venomx, what is your position on vaccines and autism and abortion and 911 and Terri Schiavo ane eugenics and global warming?

Added some fun there...

re: #193 venomX

You just messed up..

re: #13 jamgarr

Re-reading that now

NYTimes, or L.A. Times?

re: #194 rawmuse

If you go to the creationist museums they also have a ramp. But its more like a 2 foot non trip ramp, and its covered with hair.

re: #193 venomX

You're pathetic. Really.

Get help.

like i said arrogance.

re: #184 buzzsawmonkey

I thought The Pecado was that operetta by Gilbert and Sullivan that was set in a Japanese fishing village.

* * *
But Bizet's "The Pearl Fishers" is not bad either.

re: #193 venomX

Talk about anti-intellectual!

re: #198 buzzsawmonkey

There's no truth to the rumor that there's a sex shop in Spain called Pecadildos, is there?

LOL!

You know there's a Master Bait & Tackle down my way.

re: #206 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Added some fun there...

Hey, FBV! Are you in the ATL this week?

re: #193 venomX

do you spit or swallow?

Like me, He spits on you, troll.

This is unreal.

re: #211 venomX

You have it in spades.

re: #166 Cognito

Atheists:

Gambling that the roulette ball won't land on red or black.

Atheists:

Hey God! Nyahh Nyahh Nyahh Nyahh Nyahhhhhh!

re: #104 Kosh's Shadow

Maybe venomX is just upset because he went to a Catholic school and the nuns punished him for his bad grammar, incomprehensible writing , and incorrect punctuation, so he's taking it out on the rest of us.

Those nuns were tough.

Monsters are available across all belief systems -- atheists may have monsters as well as highly moral individuals amongst them. It seems to me that one of the deficiencies of atheists is an inability to imagine a power greater than themselves.

re: #59 buzzsawmonkey

Yet I've never seen a dragon in tallis and tefillin, nor observed a gryphon taking communion. On the other hand, I have seen gargoyles on cathedrals.

I think the question here is, have you ever seen a dragon that was NOT wearing tallis and tefillin?

(All mongooses are Seventh Day Adventists. Think about it. Have you ever seen a mongoose drink, or smoke, or drive a fast car with a loose woman on its arm? Of course not.)

re: #184 buzzsawmonkey

I thought The Pecado was that operetta by Gilbert and Sullivan that was set in a Japanese fishing village.

The one with the song "Three Little Maids From Sole"?

re: #193 venomX

do you spit or swallow?

Good grief. Shut the hell up, you foul mouthed half-wit!

re: #210 Occasional Reader

ehh walking into a circle jerk does that to me.all i said was"arrogance" and i get jumped on so yeah.now wipe off my leg ya freak.

re: #193 venomX
Oh, how will anyone ever win an argument against such impressive debating skills like that.

Yeah. Pretty underwhelming display so far.

re: #214 J.D.

LOL!

You know there's a Master Bait & Tackle down my way.

My husband and son enjoyed that enormously on their dad 'n lad trip to Florida a few years ago.

? Atlas Shrugged

re: #214 J.D.

LOL!

You know there's a Master Bait & Tackle down my way.

There used to be a seasonal bait store near me, called The Bass Hole

re: #212 alegrias

* * *
But Bizet's "The Pearl Fishers" is not bad either.

I like the part when they have cod balls and hot oil, and sing "Au Fondue Temple Saint".

re: #193 venomX

Another self hating troll with attractions he can't cope with.

re: #222 born conservative

dont project your fantasies on me.i have enough.thanx!

re: #206 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Added some fun there...

* * * *
Gotta have Octomom & IVF and surrogacy on your list.

re: #222 born conservative

I can imagine it just fine. I'd just like some evidence.

re: #85 rightymouse

Ah...no kidding.
I doubt a true Christian would have said "suck my a$$'.

It all depends on the context.

re: #148 Dark_Falcon

Charles, will you please boot this nasty little piece of garbage?

Why, what do you mean? I think venomX is making some excellent points.

re: #211 venomX

like i said arrogance.

Look behind you dipshit..You just burned the bridge behind you and I'm standing in front of you...

re: #226 venomX

ehh walking into a circle jerk does that to me.all i said was"arrogance" and i get jumped on so yeah.now wipe off my leg ya freak.

Why, sure. Where do you live?

So venomX, what was it that led you to your ideas about atheists?

A sex video....of sorts

re: #233 hazzyday

lol wtf are you talking about?did you get your degree at NYU or what?

re: #94 Spare O'Lake

Are you a good witch, or a bad witch?
- Dorothy, The Wizard of Oz

Most witches are theistic. Or theaistic. Or something.

re: #238 Charles

Why, what do you mean? I think venomX is making some excellent points.

Like the one on top of it's head?

re: #226 venomX

You flung poo, and were asked to clarify, and in response you just flung more poo. A monkey can fling poo and is much cuter at doing it than you.

re: #241 Hhar

So venomX, what was it that led you to your ideas about atheists?

Ideas? I don't see no stinking ideas.

f'n lol

venomx, there is this key underneath the zxcvbnm row, called the spacebar. It is typically used after, not just letters, but punctuation as well...

ah nevermind.

Atheists haiku

I don't believe it
Take my chances after death
Just rollin' the dice

re: #226 venomX

Does anyone know the Golly Wog prayer to drive out a troll and praise Charles?

re: #228 doppelganglander

My husband and son enjoyed that enormously on their dad 'n lad trip to Florida a few years ago.

I can't help but smile when I drive by it.

Hahahaha .. OMG .. #241 followed by #242 .. a classic !

Now here is a bunch of items we could all use:

Top 10 Utterly Pointless USB Devices

Number 10 is ideal for the LNDT.

And, if we all purchased number 7, we could help out Charles hampsters.

re: #238 Charles

Why, what do you mean? I think venomX is making some excellent points.

He's still entertaining, and some of us lizards are enjoying playing with our food.
Which troll recipe tonight?

re: #74 Dr. Shalit

Atheists - NOT MONSTERS - In my way of reasoning - WRONG, AND Still Fellow Humans. That is all.

-S-

My experience is that atheists get confused and lost along the way in life - an intellectual 'cynical pause'. I rejected G-d early in life as I had dogma/scripture jammed down my throat without rhyme, reason, nor rational explanation (before Dad figured things out too) - this did not sit well with me because I was/am a 'prove it' kind of person. Then things changed. It's a long story and I won't bore anyone here, but I did find my way in nature, marveling at sand crabs on a beach in Thailand.

Everyone needs to find their own 'truth'. The key is to not jam it down the throats of others by legal means. Be peaceful in whatever truth you find for yourself.

re: #243 venomX

lol wtf are you talking about?did you get your degree at NYU or what?

I know you well.

venomX will next type that it has an IQ of 167.

re: #238 Charles

Why, what do you mean? I think venomX is making some excellent points.

Hahaha. He is certainly giving us intellectuals a run for our money. Our Ivory Towers aren't safe.

re: #231 Kosh's Shadow

There used to be a seasonal bait store near me, called The Bass Hole

LOL!

Great marketing, really.
You just don't forget those names!

re: #128 Walter L. Newton

Or maybe, or just maybe, he's handicapped?

That might explain the spelling, but not the behavior.

re: #238 Charles

thank you charles .dont know if youre being sarcastic or not but im a big fan since 04.this thread just attracted me and i threw in my.02 and wow ...we can disagree but im still gonna read this blog.

re: #247 kansas

Ideas? I don't see no stinking ideas.

Well, this whole notion of arrogance and so on. I'm interested.

re: #254 Kosh's Shadow

He's still entertaining, and some of us lizards are enjoying playing with our food.
Which troll recipe tonight?

somebody needs to send in a vol2 recipe entitled "venomx".

re: #250 Dark_Falcon

Does anyone know the Golly Wog prayer to drive out a troll and praise Charles?

golly wog

Our Overlord, who art in cyberspace
Hallowed be thy flame.
Thy downding come, thy ban stick flung
On Nirth as it is on Nodrog.
Give us this day our daily thread
And forgive us our spins
As we forgive those who spin upon us.
For thine is the website
And the powerblog, and the rational
Forever and ever
GAZE!

Evening from Crook County, Chicago. Blago indicted- what else is new.

re: #196 SanFranciscoZionist

John Brown challenges me. His cause was righteous. His means were horrifying, and without a doubt terroristic--and yet, eventually, his cause, among other things, would lead to a war that make his actions look, if not mild, right at home. I look at him, and try to assess him, and it's not easy. What do others make of the man?

As a Kansan, he is generally an embarassment to me. He fought against a horrible evil by horribly evil means. I don't know how much he wrestled in his mind with the immorality of his actions, but you can't fight for man's freedom by arbitrarily picking up a gun and telling others that you are their judge, jury, and executioner.

re: #168 onyxraven1979

Want to buy some French rifles? Never fired and only dropped once.

Actually that's not true. Frenchmen can and will put up a stiff fight for something they believe in. Their main problem is that their political and military leadership tends to be fouled up most of time.

For example:

"The French as a nation have a long history of insisting on being different and claiming it's a superior practice. A case in point is that at the beginning of the First World War is that while all other nations had adopted earth toned uniforms for their soldiers the French politicians INSISTED that their soldiers go into combat with the traditional dark blue coats and bright red trousers. As you can imagine this didn't work out well for the French Army. The French also had the best bayonets mounted on the worst rifle, but that's another story."

re: #178 Occasional Reader

Oh, please.

Thank you :)

re: #253 Cheechako

Bad link...