Le Pen Calls Nazi Gas Chambers ‘A Detail’ of WWII

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Jean Marie Le Pen, the leader of French neo-Nazi party “Front National” and friend and ally of Filip DeWinter of the Belgian fascist group Vlaams Belang, is back in the news again — for reiterating his Holocaust denial in a speech to the European Parliament: Le Pen calls gas chambers “detail” of WW II.

PARIS (JTA) — Extreme rightist Jean-Marie Le Pen told the EU Parliament that “gas chambers were a detail in the history of the Second World War.”

Following the remark, which he made on Wednesday, European Union Parliament members drafted an accord that could prevent the 81-year-old Le Pen from presiding over July’s inaugural session of parliament, Reuters reported.

Youtube Video

Meanwhile, so-called “anti-jihad” bloggers continue to promote DeWinter and the Vlaams Belang, despite his longstanding alliances with Le Pen and American Jew-haters like Pat Buchanan, because his anti-Muslim bigotry agrees with theirs.

A photograph taken in May 2007 at the funeral of Vlaams Blok founder Karel Dillen, showing Vlaams Blok/Belang leaders Filip DeWinter and Frank Vanhecke, with French National Front leaders Jean-Marie Le Pen and Bruno Gollnisch.

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467 comments
1 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 12:54:07pm

A mere detail......

The devil is in the details.

2 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 12:55:25pm

A detail
A mere happenstance
A peccadillo
A blip
An aberration

//

3 Kronocide  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 12:55:49pm

6 million minor details asshole.

4 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 12:56:15pm

After WWII, how could a Frenchman(!) side with fucking nazis?

5 Digital Display  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 12:56:41pm

re: #1 JCM

A mere detail......

The devil is in the details.

Seem to recall 2 Nuclear Bombs were dropped during WW2..Details...just details
Is this guy insane?

6 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 12:56:48pm

re: #4 pingjockey

After WWII, how could a Frenchman(!) side with fucking nazis?

becuase DURING WW2 many many many did !

7 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 12:57:02pm

re: #4 pingjockey

After WWII, how could a Frenchman(!) side with fucking nazis?

Some of them were doing it during the war.

8 BryanS  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 12:57:46pm

The US can elect members of its minority classes to be leaders. When will a European country elect a Jew to a prominent position of power? Maybe they exist and I don't know it, but Jews do not seem readily nominated to appointed positions let alone elected ones in Europe.

9 Nevergiveup  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 12:57:55pm

re: #4 pingjockey

After WWII, how could a Frenchman(!) side with fucking nazis?

Petain?

10 scottishbuzzsaw  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 12:58:17pm

Senility or a darkness that reaches deep into his soul?

11 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 12:58:32pm

re: #6 sattv4u2

re: #7 SanFranciscoZionist

I know, but sheesh, I keeping hoping that in my lifetime commonsense will break out. Well, pigs may fly one day.

12 ilzito guacamolito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 12:58:46pm

These f@#kers wear suits while muslims don't, but what the f@#k is the difference?!?

13 funky chicken  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 12:59:06pm

Shallow comment--the guy looks like a grouper. Apologies to groupers, I guess since they at least make for tasty eating.

14 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 12:59:06pm

re: #3 BigPapa

6 million minor details asshole.

Details with names.

Bentzion Abramovicz 46 Auschwitz 1943
Sara Abramson 23 Livani, Latvia 1941
Pnina Adler 42 Auschwitz 1942
Feiga Adam 25 Warszawa, Poland 1942
Rika Auerbach 65 Lodz, Poland 1942
Shabtai Augustowski 39 Janow, Poland 1941
Chajm Awroblanski 47 Treblinka 1942
Bernhard Altman 47 Kopaygorod, Ukraine (USSR) 22/02/42
Menachem Amsterdamski 19 Kaufering, Germany 23/04/45
Isaac Angel 64 Poland 1940
Chaim Anderman 60 Buczacz, Poland 1942
Sendl Apelbojm 37 Treblinka 1941
Eti Akselrad 19 Jagielnica, Poland 1942
Chana Oslerner 41 Treblinka 1941
Moshe Aranowicz 64 Lodz, Poland 1942
Micheline Aaronson 23 Auschwitz 27/03/44
Sara Obstbaum 30 Warszawa, Poland 1942
Mose Ogurek 55 Warszawa, Poland 1940
Liba Ozerowicz 41 Zdzieciol, Poland 21/07/41
Hersch Ojcer 30 Lodz, Poland 1942
Avraham Ostfeld 51 Bershad, Ukraine (USSR) 1942
Salom Ostrer 32 Stanesti, Romania 1941
Joshua Oselka 44 Treblinka 1942

and many, many more.

Glorified and sanctified be God’s great name throughout the world which He has created according to His will. May He establish His kingdom in your lifetime and during your days, and within the life of the entire House of Israel, speedily and soon; and say, Amen.

May His great name be blessed forever and to all eternity.

Blessed and praised, glorified and exalted, extolled and honored, adored and lauded be the name of the Holy One, blessed be He, beyond all the blessings and hymns, praises and consolations that are ever spoken in the world; and say, Amen.

May there be abundant peace from heaven, and life, for us
and for all Israel; and say, Amen.

He who creates peace in His celestial heights, may He create peace for us and for all Israel; and say, Amen.

15 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:00:07pm

re: #12 ilzito guacamolito
One bunch will cut your head off, the other bunch prefers gas chambers, other than that, not much.

16 Nevergiveup  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:00:34pm

Obama will meet Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan and President Abdullah Gul, and will deliver an address to parliament in Ankara on Monday.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

So for those with weak stomachs eat lightly tonight and tomorrow morning.

17 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:01:10pm

re: #8 BryanS

The US can elect members of its minority classes to be leaders. When will a European country elect a Jew to a prominent position of power? Maybe they exist and I don't know it, but Jews do not seem readily nominated to appointed positions let alone elected ones in Europe.

Sarkozy has Jewish roots, and IIRC, that was an issue during the elections.

18 Cathypop  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:01:31pm

re: #10 scottishbuzzsaw

Senility or a darkness that reaches deep into his soul?


He has no soul. Just evil

19 ilzito guacamolito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:02:31pm

re: #15 pingjockey

One bunch will cut your head off, the other bunch prefers gas chambers, other than that, not much.

Nice suits, though.
/

20 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:02:40pm

BBL

21 DEZes  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:02:59pm

Bones shattered, starvation, brutal torture, concentration camps.
And gas chambers.
And this asshole just shrugs it off as a minor detail.
*SPITS*

22 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:03:08pm

re: #16 Nevergiveup

Obama will meet Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan and President Abdullah Gul, and will deliver an address to parliament in Ankara on Monday.

[Link: www.haaretz.com...]

So for those with weak stomachs eat lightly tonight and tomorrow morning.

With my luck, he'll somehow find a way to accomplish all of the following before he's finished clearing his throat:

1) He'll exacerbate the NATO fracture around Turkey;
2) He'll give a green-light to the forces of barbarism already ascendant in the land of Ataturk (how we miss him now, eh?);
3) He'll certainly encourage or tolerate, at least, the growing anti-Westernism of Turks in Europe;
4) He'll offend the Turks sufficiently to put the kibosh on my little side-business of importing pipes from Turkey.

23 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:03:11pm

re: #19 ilzito guacamolito
Oh yeah. Just like some mafia dons!

24 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:03:18pm

It's no coincidence that these extremist movements, including communism and Fascism, were born in Europe, or that millions died in these massive social "experiments".

LePen hasn't fallen far from the Fascist tree. But which tree has Obama fallen from?

25 coloradobuff  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:03:22pm

The old man should know better. Since he does not, he should be locked up someplace where he cannot do anyone (including himself) harm.

26 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:03:45pm

re: #24 quickjustice

But which tree has Obama fallen from?

Racist!
///

27 Kronocide  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:03:47pm

re: #14 JCM

That's just too real. Makes it more infuriating when you see idiots deny it.

Why again is this guy considered 'right wing?'

28 yma o hyd  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:03:49pm

re: #4 pingjockey

After WWII, how could a Frenchman(!) side with fucking nazis?

Why not?
Half of them at least sided with the Nazis during WWII.
It was called 'Vichy France' ...

29 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:03:55pm

re: #24 quickjustice
Lenin, Marx, et al.

30 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:04:07pm

re: #27 BigPapa

That's just too real. Makes it more infuriating when you see idiots deny it.

Why again is this guy considered 'right wing?'

Because he's not a communist.

31 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:04:14pm

Europe is...slippin into darkness

32 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:04:46pm

And since I have Jewish family who died in Holocaust, that makes it personal. "Never Again" is personal for many of us.

33 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:04:49pm

re: #28 yma o hyd
Yeah, I know, I know. I was thinking logically and logic doesn't apply with these fuckers.

34 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:05:08pm

Really BBL.

35 gegenkritik  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:05:20pm

Interesting essay about the issue by John Rosenthal.

36 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:05:23pm

re: #28 yma o hyd

Why not?
Half of them at least sided with the Nazis during WWII.
It was called 'Vichy France' ...

tough guys...we kicked their frog asses in N Africa

37 yma o hyd  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:05:46pm

re: #8 BryanS

The US can elect members of its minority classes to be leaders. When will a European country elect a Jew to a prominent position of power? Maybe they exist and I don't know it, but Jews do not seem readily nominated to appointed positions let alone elected ones in Europe.

The tiny 'detail', as LePen calls it, of the gas chambers, and the death of six million of them, might have a little bit to do with that, don't you think?

38 BryanS  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:05:47pm

re: #17 SanFranciscoZionist

Sarkozy has Jewish roots, and IIRC, that was an issue during the elections.

Interesting. Though I'm sure it was an issue--as in negative issue--hopefully it will convince more in France that his ascension to power was not such a horrible thing.

39 lurking faith  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:06:09pm

You can't make an omelet without breaking a few million eggs.
/

[self-deleted]
*spit*

40 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:06:15pm

If you follow the link to the "anti-jihad blogger" above, you'll see crazy Pamela Geller praising Filip DeWinter as a hero, while her commenters insult and denigrate LGF.

41 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:07:55pm

re: #40 Charles

If you follow the link to the "anti-jihad blogger" above, you'll see crazy Pamela Geller praising Filip DeWinter as a hero, while her commenters insult and denigrate LGF.

Amazes me, these people. Don't they realize that oven-stuffers (and those who attempt to minimize or downplay them) are at least as dangerous as, and maybe even more dangerous than, folks who scream out Allahu Akbar?

When these suited thugs are done with the Turks, I wonder who's next on the list?

42 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:08:02pm

re: #35 gegenkritik

Interesting essay about the issue by John Rosenthal.

What the hell?

43 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:08:18pm

re: #27 BigPapa

That's just too real. Makes it more infuriating when you see idiots deny it.

Why again is this guy considered 'right wing?'

Right wing = nazis is a canard and an old one.

Both are socialist / statist in nature. One must always keep in mind NAZI stands for National Socialist German Workers’ Party, Nationalsozialismus (National Socialism).

44 yma o hyd  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:08:36pm

re: #36 albusteve

tough guys...we kicked their frog asses in N Africa

Yeah - and another interesting point is that after the Liberation, all of France had of course been in the Resistance - just as no German had ever had anything to do with the Nazis.

45 Nevergiveup  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:09:14pm

re: #31 albusteve

Europe is...slippin into darkness

They are usually in darkness and only slip out of it occasionally. That's the the smart ones high tailed it outa there to the NEW WORLD.

46 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:09:43pm

re: #45 Nevergiveup

They are usually in darkness and only slip out of it occasionally. That's the the smart ones high tailed it outa there to the NEW WORLD.

Might be something to that.

47 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:10:17pm

re: #28 yma o hyd

As noted, a majority of the French, General De Gaulle and a few others excepted, collaborated with the Nazis after the fall of France. At the same time, there are memorials all over Paris to those Frenchmen who died resisting the Nazis.

After the war, of course, everyone in France suddenly remembered that they had been members of the Resistance! On the other hand, you can't reasonably expect everyone living under an occupying power to be a hero.

48 Nevergiveup  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:11:15pm

re: #47 quickjustice

As noted, a majority of the French, General De Gaulle and a few others excepted, collaborated with the Nazis after the fall of France. At the same time, there are memorials all over Paris to those Frenchmen who died resisting the Nazis.

After the war, of course, everyone in France suddenly remembered that they had been members of the Resistance! On the other hand, you can't reasonably expect everyone living under an occupying power to be a hero.

No but it seemed the French had a rather high percentage of traitors?

49 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:11:26pm

re: #35 gegenkritik

A quote from that article:

Who knows what in fact Le Pen was driving at when he first uttered his famous phrase way back in 1987?

Is Rosenthal actually trying to make excuses for Le Pen?

50 jvic  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:11:45pm

Are bigots, kooks, and haters the only people with spines nowadays? A civilization like that will come to no good end.

Okay, they're not the only people with spines, but I'd bet they're a disproportionate fraction of them.

51 Macker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:11:46pm

re: #48 Nevergiveup

I'll bet a higher percentage of Traitors than any other country?

52 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:12:28pm

re: #35 gegenkritik

Interesting essay about the issue by John Rosenthal.

ritualized denunciation?...indeed that is interesting

53 Kronocide  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:12:58pm

re: #35 gegenkritik

It's a good point to be made, but Le Pin should know how sensitive a subject it is for him. I don't think he does because he feels the need to communicate how he feels on the subject.

At least he's honest.

54 gegenkritik  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:13:07pm

re: #42 Charles

What the hell?


It is very clear, that Le Pen is an disgusting anti-semite, not only because he used the phrase of the "details" to relativize the Holocaust. Though, his critics in the European Parliament are mostly hypocrites.

55 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:13:24pm

re: #44 yma o hyd

Yeah - and another interesting point is that after the Liberation, all of France had of course been in the Resistance - just as no German had ever had anything to do with the Nazis.

ever seen film footage of the bald ladies?

56 bruxellesblog  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:15:27pm

What is sad is I bet about 40-60% of the parliament agrees with him.

57 lurking faith  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:15:32pm

re: #35 gegenkritik

What do you mean by "interesting"? It looks to me like Rosenthal is trying to downplay the significance of LePen's comments, and downplay the significance of the Nazis' attempt to exterminate the Jews.

In other words, more of the same type of garbage.

58 scottishbuzzsaw  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:15:40pm

re: #42 Charles

What the hell?

New Majority...isn't that David Frum's group?

59 yma o hyd  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:15:43pm

re: #47 quickjustice

As noted, a majority of the French, General De Gaulle and a few others excepted, collaborated with the Nazis after the fall of France. At the same time, there are memorials all over Paris to those Frenchmen who died resisting the Nazis.

After the war, of course, everyone in France suddenly remembered that they had been members of the Resistance! On the other hand, you can't reasonably expect everyone living under an occupying power to be a hero.

No - of course one can't expect everybody to be a hero.
But the betrayals of the SOE agents to the Gestapo alone were on a pretty large scale - and, as there are two biopics in the offing, its worth remembering that the fashion icon Coco Chanel actually lived with a Nazi officer during the occupation, tried to get the property of the Jewish family who produced her famous scent - and had to flee to Switzerland after the war, for 10 years.

60 gegenkritik  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:15:47pm

re: #49 Charles

A quote from that article:

Is Rosenthal actually trying to make excuses for Le Pen?


No, his critique is against those hypocrites like German EP-Member Martin Schulz, who is defending rackets like Hamas but is outraged about an anti-semite like Le Pen.

61 Kronocide  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:16:33pm

re: #49 Charles

I see a parallel here between the author's point and the current anti-jihadis relationship with DeWinter/fascists. I think he's making the point that LePin's alternate is a socialist and bad in his own right, and that spending too much time on LePin's 'detail' comment would detract them from the bigger picture.

Maybe. But he comes perilously close to minimizing or defending Le Pen.

That's how I read the first run through.

62 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:16:54pm

re: #60 gegenkritik

No, his critique is against those hypocrites like German EP-Member Martin Schulz, who is defending rackets like Hamas but is outraged about an anti-semite like Le Pen.

that's my take...."canned outrage"

63 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:16:55pm

re: #35 gegenkritik

Rosenthal is parsing LePen's words about an extremely sensitive topic as if they fell from the lips of a seer. He's bending over backwards to soften the impact of what LePen said. LePen already has a decades-long track record of incendiary remarks about Jews. No "reasonable" observer will give him the benefit of a doubt.

64 yma o hyd  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:18:04pm

re: #55 albusteve

ever seen film footage of the bald ladies?

Yep - pretty impressive!
There's heros - and there are ordianry people who try to survive without compromising their principles.
And then there are those who don't give a damn.
They get their heads shorn, afterwards ...

65 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:18:52pm

OT ,, and apropos of absolutely nothing,,,

Regardless of what you think of Mormonism as a religion, or your thoughts on Mitt Romney or Harry Reid or The Osmond's,,,

The Mormon Tabernacle Choir is stunning!

(we now return you to your normal scheduled outrage)

66 ajaxlikid  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:20:04pm

Charles,
Front National. No final "e".

A fwench reader.

67 bungie  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:20:19pm

It seems the French as individuals have an historical tendency to look out for themselves. . . and a tendency towards antisemitism as well.

As the boy scouts sing " . . . Here's my cheese, here's my wine, uh oh, I surrender." (Loses something without the hand motions.)

Still, I can't imagine them dreaming up the idea of the gas chambers.

Where o' where is Winston Churchill? I fear we are going to need him again.

68 Macker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:20:28pm

re: #55 albusteve

ever seen film footage of the bald ladies?

Is this what you're referring to?

69 yma o hyd  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:20:35pm

Gotta go and look after Madame now - seeya tomorrow, all being well!

70 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:21:27pm

re: #68 Macker

Is this what you're referring to?

yes, shorn whores

71 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:22:07pm

re: #67 bungie

It seems the French as individuals have an historical tendency to look out for themselves. . . and a tendency towards antisemitism as well.

Yes, I seem to recall someone making the quip that they were "Merciless toward the weak, and weak toward the merciless," or words to that effect.

72 scottishbuzzsaw  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:22:20pm

re: #69 yma o hyd

Gotta go and look after Madame now - seeya tomorrow, all being well!

Take care, {yma}...scritches to Madame.

73 bruxellesblog  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:22:21pm

re: #7 SanFranciscoZionist

After WWII, how could a Frenchman(!) side with fucking nazis?

becuase DURING WW2 many many many did !

Scratch the surface of a French Socialist, and a Fascist crawls out of the puss...

The most damming of all charges against Mitterrand and his right wing connections is probably his long lasting friendship with René Bousquet, ex secrétaire général of the Vichy police. Charles de Gaulle said of Mitterrand and Bousquet "they are ghosts who come from the deepest depths of the collaboration."[24] Georges-Marc Benamou quotes Mitterrand as saying of Bousquet "his career shattered at the age of 35, it was dreadful... Bousquet suffered badly. Imagine the break, the career shot to pieces"[25] which shows Mitterrand felt that Bousquet was undeservedly badly treated. In 1974, René Bousquet gave financial help to François Mitterrand for his presidential campaign against Valéry Giscard d'Estaing. In an interview with Pierre Favier et Michel Martin-Roland Mitterrand claimed that he was not the only left wing politician to benefit from Bousquet's money, as René Bousquet helped finance all the principal left wing politicians from the 1950s to the beginning of the 1970s, including Pierre Mendès France. Worse still after Mitterrand's 1981 win René Bousquet was received at the Élysée palace “to talk politics”. In an interview with Pascale Froment (René Bousquet's biographer) Mitterrand declared "I listened to him as a political commentator. He saw me as a continuation of his halted career."[26] Only in 1986, when media criticism of Bousquet began to gain in volume, did Mitterrand stop seeing him and he did not comment on the matter until the 1994 interview with Jean-Pierre Elkabach.[27] Lionel Jospin commented that he was little impressed by the President's explanation saying "One would have liked a simpler and more transparent rise to power for the leader of the French left during the 70s and 80s. What I can't understand is the continuing relationship into the 80s with the likes of Bousquet who organized the mass arrests of Jews"[28]

[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

74 Macker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:22:26pm

re: #70 albusteve

Serves 'em right then.

75 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:22:27pm

re: #48 Nevergiveup

Vichy himself included. But remember the premise of the movie "Casablanca", admittedly a U.S. propaganda masterpiece, that opportunism doubtless play a large part in French attitudes at the time. WWII was the second time we had kicked the Germans out of France, and it was in our interests to do so.

Some old WWII U.S. vets I knew remembered fondly the extremely "enthusiastic" welcomes they got from French women at the time of liberation!

76 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:23:47pm

re: #75 quickjustice

Some old WWII U.S. vets I knew remembered fondly the extremely "enthusiastic" welcomes they got from French women at the time of liberation!

I would wager those same women gave the same welcome to the Germans as they entered Paris (no ,, not HILTON)

77 Athos  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:24:14pm

Just another confirmation that we should not and do not need to make deals with the devil (compromising our ethics and morals) in order to fight the fight that is needed.

Excusing, parsing, or ignoring odious comments like this reflects a moral and intellectual bankruptcy that invalidates any position being taken based on morality or intellectual standing.

I will not join with or excuse a lessor version of what I dispise. I will win with my morals intact or I will fail being true to myself. Otherwise I cheapen myself and my allies.

78 Nevergiveup  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:24:17pm

re: #68 Macker

Is this what you're referring to?

The men traitors they just shot.

79 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:24:18pm

re: #67 bungie

Where o' where is Winston Churchill? I fear we are going to need him again.

You didn't hear? Teh One sent him back.

"A bust of the former prime minister once voted the greatest Briton in history, which was loaned to George W Bush from the Government's art collection after the September 11 attacks, has now been formally handed back.

The bronze by Sir Jacob Epstein, worth hundreds of thousands of pounds if it were ever sold on the open market, enjoyed pride of place in the Oval Office during President Bush's tenure.

But when British officials offered to let Mr Obama to hang onto the bust for a further four years, the White House said: "Thanks, but no thanks."

80 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:24:25pm

re: #74 Macker

Serves 'em right then.

get a hair cut for treason?....if the shoe were on the other foot the Germans would have killed her

81 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:25:30pm

re: #80 albusteve

get a hair cut for treason?....if the shoe were on the other foot the Germans would have killed her

Yes, but the shaved heads marked them, publicly, as collaborators of the lowest order.

82 esch  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:25:55pm

re: #79 Guanxi88

It says SO MUCH about his basic motivations.

Damn despicable coward.

83 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:26:16pm

Sorry I'm so dense about this...

What does "detail" mean here? What is he trying to say?

84 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:27:04pm
85 Summer Seale  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:27:05pm

I watched it in French, and Le Pen starts to rant towards the end. And then he finishes by saying that the accusations against him are lies.

86 horse  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:27:42pm

The point where extreme right and left meet: when they are both stomping their boots on the Jewish people. Jean and Jean whip the fringes up, into a frothing acid to pour on the unfortunate chosen people. Thank goodness they are minor parties; the majors are bad enough.

And what the heck are so called "conservatives" doing supporting allies of this nut? Aren't these "conservatives" supposed supporters of Israel?

87 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:27:59pm

re: #82 esch

It says SO MUCH about his basic motivations.

Damn despicable coward.

There's an interesting psychology to the thing, as well. The sight of Churchill must surely have served as some reminder of the existence of a great man (a real one, at that) prior to Barry's ascension on high.

88 Jim708  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:28:18pm

wiki research?

Seriously?

89 esch  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:29:20pm

re: #87 Guanxi88

That's what frightens me.

What, couldn't he stand Churchill's 'eyes' on him? WTF, is he THAT insecure?!

90 Summer Seale  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:29:46pm

It's interesting what he says in French but even more interesting how he says it. It's kind of like watching a breakdown occurring.

Very satisfying.

91 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:30:19pm

re: #83 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Sorry I'm so dense about this...

What does "detail" mean here? What is he trying to say?

Triviality.

92 pass the moonbaticide  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:30:34pm

A visit to Auchwitz is compulsory for all German schoolchildren at least once in their school career.
I reckon all French schoolchildren should do likewise.

93 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:30:40pm

re: #89 esch

That's what frightens me.

What, couldn't he stand Churchill's 'eyes' on him? WTF, is he THAT insecure?!

Churchill, even cast in bronze, would be an unbearable rebuke to him, a sort of icon of a greatness of which Barry believes himself worthy, but which, in secret, he knows he is not. It'd be too much for so obvious an impostor as Teh One to have to endure. So out it goes.

94 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:31:08pm
95 pink freud  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:31:26pm

re: #89 esch

That's what frightens me.

What, couldn't he stand Churchill's 'eyes' on him? WTF, is he THAT insecure?!

Yes. In spades.

96 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:31:46pm

re: #83 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Sorry I'm so dense about this...

What does "detail" mean here? What is he trying to say?

TRANSLATION ,,,

"NO BIG DEAL!"
"MINOR"

97 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:32:00pm
98 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:32:05pm

re: #86 horse

The point where extreme right and left meet: when they are both stomping their boots on the Jewish people. Jean and Jean whip the fringes up, into a frothing acid to pour on the unfortunate chosen people. Thank goodness they are minor parties; the majors are bad enough.

And what the heck are so called "conservatives" doing supporting allies of this nut? Aren't these "conservatives" supposed supporters of Israel?

Charles has a long history debunking these assholes. You might want to check out the search function.

99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:32:09pm

re: #91 MandyManners

I'm not defending him, by any stretch of the imagination here. Isn't everything a detail? A detail of WWII was Normandy... did he imply "minor detail"?

Is it that I just don't understand the context?

100 Yankee Division Son  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:32:12pm

Just a mere detail...

101 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:32:20pm

re: #89 esch

That's what frightens me.

What, couldn't he stand Churchill's 'eyes' on him? WTF, is he THAT insecure?!

can you imagine the WH living quarters?....portraits of the great Huey Long etc

102 scottishbuzzsaw  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:32:32pm

re: #89 esch

What, couldn't he stand Churchill's 'eyes' on him? WTF, is he THAT insecure?!

I can imagine BHO being irritated under Churchill's gaze. How dare he be judged by this relic of history!

103 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:32:40pm

re: #10 scottishbuzzsaw

Darkness, and Stan.

104 gegenkritik  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:32:49pm

re: #57 lurking faith

What do you mean by "interesting"? It looks to me like Rosenthal is trying to downplay the significance of LePen's comments, and downplay the significance of the Nazis' attempt to exterminate the Jews.


I don't think so. Rosenthal downplays the importance of LePen, and I agree with him.
For every sane person, it should be very clear, that there can be no co-operation with People/Organizations like LePen, the FN, the BNP, FPÖ, Vlaams Belang and so on, just because they are also speaking out against jihad (by the way, this does not apply for the FN anymore, some people there have already declared sympathy for Islamists, as long as they are against the USA and Israel).
Not only because they are anti-western-fanatics, but also because they aren't critizing Islam as an ideology, but denouncing Muslims.

The point is, that the above-mentioned are (more or less) minorities. Sure, Le Pen's "details"-phrase is disgusting, but I think it's a bigger danger, if a majority of European politicians denounce Israel or support Hamas.

105 pink freud  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:33:03pm

SFZ, check your spam.

106 Emerald  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:33:05pm

A rather important detail they'd rather pretend didn't happen.

This is deliberate ignorance and bigotry. There is no way to pretend otherwise. Any group that thinks they need the support of these groups had better give up; their cause is lost and worthless if it needs Nazis of any stripe.

107 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:33:09pm

re: #97 buzzsawmonkey

Not to mention a reminder of a time when a leader could take a smoke without huddling under the portico.

Yes, Winston, smoking in a bathtub, swilling down the booze at 10 Downing. By Jove! Those were the days, eh?

108 ilzito guacamolito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:33:19pm

re: #75 quickjustice

Vichy himself included. But remember the premise of the movie "Casablanca", admittedly a U.S. propaganda masterpiece, that opportunism doubtless play a large part in French attitudes at the time. WWII was the second time we had kicked the Germans out of France, and it was in our interests to do so.

Some old WWII U.S. vets I knew remembered fondly the extremely "enthusiastic" welcomes they got from French women at the time of liberation!

You call Vichy a guy and then refer to a film?
WTF?

109 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:33:52pm

re: #89 esch

That's what frightens me.

What, couldn't he stand Churchill's 'eyes' on him? WTF, is he THAT insecure?!

A real President would have images of Washington, Lincoln and Reagan and always ask the question; "Would they approve?"

110 opinionated  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:33:59pm

Meanwhile in the United States:

I wasn't 30 hours off the plane from Israel to give a presentation at Chicago's DePaul University on March 16, before I was greeted with the kind of direct anti-Semitism that legitimizes Kassam rockets fired at Sderot.

Several anti-Israel posters draped the entrance to the building in which I began my presentation to a small audience of around 20. Then the room began filling with people not merely against Israel's political policies and action but in clear support of the Hamas terrorist organization.

I wasn't able to utter a word, so the event was shut down. After I'd collected my belongings, the local police - teamed with university security - escorted me to my car. The combination of unceasing anti-Semitic chants, personal harassment and solidarity with a terrorist organization hijacked the event.

[Link: www.jpost.com...]

111 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:34:20pm

re: #109 JCM

A real President would have images of Washington, Lincoln and Reagan and always ask the question; "Would they approve?"

Hell, I'd settle for Coolidge and Nixon, at this point.

112 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:34:35pm

re: #99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm not defending him, by any stretch of the imagination here. Isn't everything a detail? A detail of WWII was Normandy... did he imply "minor detail"?

Is it that I just don't understand the context?

Normandy a detail?...huh?

113 abolitionist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:35:01pm

France's Le Pen insists Nazi death camps were 'detail'
Shorter version (0:46), but with official(?) translation to English.

114 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:35:06pm

I guess the translation just doesn't show what he actually meant. Sorry kids. I didn't get it. In Fwench simply using the word detail must trivialize the whole thing.

115 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:35:28pm

re: #76 sattv4u2

At the time of WWII, even the French, whatever their politics and genders, knew the difference between the Americans and the Nazis. How times have changed!

116 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:35:31pm

re: #111 Guanxi88

Hell, I'd settle for Coolidge and Nixon, at this point.

LOL!

117 Macker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:35:58pm

re: #109 JCM

A real President would have images of Washington, Lincoln and Reagan and always ask the question; "Would they approve?"

I guess for БХО that would be Gramisci, Alinsky, and Ayers?

118 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:36:37pm

re: #107 Guanxi88

Yes, Winston, smoking in a bathtub, swilling down the booze at 10 Downing. By Jove! Those were the days, eh?

at breakfast!...we're gonna kick some arse today!....drink!

119 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:36:42pm

re: #79 Guanxi88

re: #67 bungie


Where o' where is Winston Churchill? I fear we are going to need him again.


LGF is the collective William Churchill, it is the electronic William Churchill for the age we are living in. We have to keep this up. And I think we are about in the equivalent of the year 1936 or 1937.

120 Summer Seale  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:36:51pm

re: #114 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I guess the translation just doesn't show what he actually meant. Sorry kids. I didn't get it. In Fwench simply using the word detail must trivialize the whole thing.

He used detail as if to say that it is simply a footnote, or something to not be terribly concerned about. As in "a little detail of history".

121 pink freud  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:37:30pm

re: #101 albusteve

can you imagine the WH living quarters?....portraits of the great Huey Long etc

...creator of the forerunner to the New Deal, the "Share Our Wealth" program, in 1934

Long created the Share Our Wealth program in 1934, with the motto "Every Man a King," proposing new socialist wealth redistribution measures in the form of a net asset tax on corporations and individuals to curb the poverty and crime resulting from the Great Depression. To stimulate the economy, Long advocated federal spending on public works, public education, old-age pensions and other social programs. He was an ardent critic of the Federal Reserve System's policies to reduce lending.

Charismatic and immensely popular for his social reform programs and willingness to take forceful action, Long was accused by his opponents of dictatorial tendencies for his near-total control of the state government. At the height of his popularity, the colorful and flamboyant Long was shot on September 8, 1935, at the Louisiana State Capitol in Baton Rouge; he died two days later at the age of 42. His last words were reportedly, "God, don't let me die. I have so much left to do."

/sound like anyone we know?

122 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:37:37pm

re: #114 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I guess the translation just doesn't show what he actually meant. Sorry kids. I didn't get it. In Fwench simply using the word detail must trivialize the whole thing.

diminished...of lesser importance

123 ilzito guacamolito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:37:38pm

re: #97 buzzsawmonkey

Not to mention a reminder of a time when a leader could take a smoke without huddling under the portico.

Or anyone for that matter.

124 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:37:45pm

re: #116 JCM

LOL!

I recall David Brudnoy, late radio host at WBZ in Boston, arguing that Coolidge was one of the great unacknowledged geniuses of White House history. Like an ideal ruler as described by the Taoists or even by Confucius his own bearded self, he governed by not governing, acted by not acting, ruled by not ruling, fully in accord with the Way of Heaven.

125 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:38:11pm

re: #120 Summer

He used detail as if to say that it is simply a footnote, or something to not be terribly concerned about. As in "a little detail of history".

please see my #2

126 gegenkritik  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:38:18pm

Not to be mistaken: I didn't meant that Rosenthal downplays the importance of LePen, but estimates it in a realistic level.

127 abolitionist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:38:35pm

Pour Le Pen, les chambres à gaz restent un "détail" de la Seconde Guerre Mondiale...

Longer version, not translated, but with audio picking up more sounds in the chamber - catcalls, boos, laughter.

128 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:38:35pm

Got it y'all. Thanks. And...of course, Normandy was not trivial.

129 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:38:35pm

re: #121 pink freud

/sound like anyone we know?

I hope that he does not meet the same end as the great Kingfish. Sad and stupid, indeed.

130 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:38:52pm

re: #121 pink freud

ha!...I wondered if you'd chime in after I said that....Long just came to mind and yes it is eerily familiar....nice catch

131 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:39:00pm

re: #84 buzzsawmonkey

Thanks for the correction. A senior moment confusing Vichy and Petain. Petain's people were rather too enthusiastic in helping out their Nazi counterparts. Thank G-d the Brits sank the French fleet before the Germans could get it.

132 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:39:53pm

re: #131 quickjustice

Also the French scuttled a lot of their fleet.

133 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:39:54pm

re: #128 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

Got it y'all. Thanks. And...of course, Normandy was not trivial.

you knew that I know you knew that....

134 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:39:58pm

re: #99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm not defending him, by any stretch of the imagination here. Isn't everything a detail? A detail of WWII was Normandy... did he imply "minor detail"?

Is it that I just don't understand the context?

In a sense all history is details.

Some have greater significance.

Sept. 1 '39
Dec. 7 '41
June 6 '44
May 8 '45
Aug. 15 '45

All are "details" but significant ones.
The 11 million killed in the camps is a significant detail.

135 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:40:23pm
136 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:40:55pm

re: #108 ilzito guacamolito

Vichy-- Petain-- fused, FUSED, in my mind! ;-)

137 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:41:07pm

re: #124 Guanxi88

I recall David Brudnoy, late radio host at WBZ in Boston, arguing that Coolidge was one of the great unacknowledged geniuses of White House history. Like an ideal ruler as described by the Taoists or even by Confucius his own bearded self, he governed by not governing, acted by not acting, ruled by not ruling, fully in accord with the Way of Heaven.

Coolidge enacted the first set of tax cuts that increased revenue.

Something The One could learn.

138 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:41:20pm

re: #134 JCM

That's what I meant! Thanks.

139 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:41:56pm

re: #132 Ojoe

Proof that within France itself, loyalties were divided.

140 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:42:19pm
141 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:42:39pm

re: #139 quickjustice

DeGaulle was wanted, for instance.

BBL - lawn mowing.

142 Summer Seale  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:42:43pm

They don't have the full first sentence in his speech on the video. I haven't really looked into the full story yet, but from what he says, basically he is describing that he did, at one time, say that the gas chambers are a "detail" of WWII - basically not stating it outright again but just stating that he did in fact say that at one point (which everyone knows). But then he goes on to say "ce qui est evident", which means basically "which is obvious"...he doesn't make it exactly clear if he says that it is obvious that he said it, or that it is obvious that they are merely a "detail" of WWII.

However, the way the other MPs react to his statement is with jeers and catcalls, making it clear that they think what he said is evident is that "the gas chambers are a detail of WWII".

Then he accuses the head of the socialist party of fabricating lies against him and demands that they formulate an apology.

143 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:43:04pm

re: #137 JCM

Coolidge enacted the first set of tax cuts that increased revenue.

Something The One could learn.

The genius of Wu Wei in action; get out of the way, do nothing, and, in a properly-ordered nation with liberty and the rule of law, prosperity will follow. Confucius once said that it was foolish for a leader (or even an official) to concern himself with agriculture, taxation, commerce, etc. "If the land be empty but justice prevails, the peasants will carry their children on their backs to immigrate."

144 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:43:09pm

re: #114 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I guess the translation just doesn't show what he actually meant. Sorry kids. I didn't get it. In Fwench simply using the word detail must trivialize the whole thing.

Think of a suit. The shape of the lapels is a detail. The buttons are details. Perhaps the fabric of the suit is what the Holocaust was to WW2.

145 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:43:13pm

re: #134 JCM

In a sense all history is details.

Some have greater significance.

Sept. 1 '39
Dec. 7 '41
June 6 '44
May 8 '45
Aug. 15 '45

All are "details" but significant ones.
The 11 million killed in the camps is a significant detail.

Nov 19 1942.....Stalingrad counter offensive begins....the beginning of the end of the war in Europe

146 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:43:43pm

re: #143 Guanxi88

The genius of Wu Wei in action; get out of the way, do nothing, and, in a properly-ordered nation with liberty and the rule of law, prosperity will follow. Confucius once said that it was foolish for a leader (or even an official) to concern himself with agriculture, taxation, commerce, etc. "If the land be empty but justice prevails, the peasants will carry their children on their backs to immigrate."

Adam Smith.
The invisible hand of enlightened self interest.

147 pink freud  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:43:54pm

re: #130 albusteve

ha!...I wondered if you'd chime in after I said that....Long just came to mind and yes it is eerily familiar....nice catch

Back when I was in middle school we all took trips to the State Capitol building and stuck our fingers into the bullet holes in the marble walls near the elevator.

148 zombie  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:43:56pm

What -- is today Nazi Day or something? There seems to be an outbreak all over. I'm checking my calendar, but April 20 isn't for two more weeks.

Looks like Europe is going through another Beer-Hall Clench.

149 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:44:04pm

re: #140 buzzsawmonkey

Thanks for the three course dinner of crow-- with a light Bernaise sauce? ;-)

150 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:44:12pm
151 Summer Seale  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:44:22pm

re: #127 abolitionist

Pour Le Pen, les chambres à gaz restent un "détail" de la Seconde Guerre Mondiale...

Longer version, not translated, but with audio picking up more sounds in the chamber - catcalls, boos, laughter.

I'm watching this version now which seems to be the more complete version. The one I just wrote about really was cut off from the start at the wrong moment to fully understand what he was going on about.

152 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:44:35pm

re: #137 JCM

Coolidge enacted the first set of tax cuts that increased revenue.

Something The One could learn.

1st, The One would have to be aware that there were Presidents prior to Kennedy (another tax cutter/ revenue increaser, BTW)
2nd, The One would have to have advisors that showed him the numbers, not ones that fill his head with the "TAX THE RICH ,, WINDFALL TAX ON CORPORATIONS" nonsense

153 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:44:55pm

re: #145 albusteve

Nov 19 1942.....Stalingrad counter offensive begins....the beginning of the end of the war in Europe

Just watched a History Channel piece on Stalingrad.
Ugliness at its ugliest, Stalingrad.

154 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:44:58pm

re: #147 pink freud

Back when I was in middle school we all took trips to the State Capitol building and stuck our fingers into the bullet holes in the marble walls near the elevator.

I love that kind of stuff....little traces of history

155 scottishbuzzsaw  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:45:05pm

re: #150 buzzsawmonkey

And Le Pen was venting.

Cuff him.

156 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:47:19pm

re: #146 JCM

Adam Smith.
The invisible hand of enlightened self interest.

It is in some respects amazing to me how very close ancient China came to becoming the birthplace of liberty, enterprise, and even industrialism. One of the great ironies of history is that the Mandarin class that grew up around the Imperial System, the men who'd earned their positions (meritocracy in action) on the basis of their literacy, education, and familiarity with the principles of Confucianism, were the very ones who ties China down in a million ways with pointless and petty bureaucratic red-tape, ultimately strangling liberty and progress in its cradle. And this by precisely the sort of stupid over-regulation that Confucius had warned against.

157 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:47:23pm

re: #153 JCM

Just watched a History Channel piece on Stalingrad.
Ugliness at its ugliest, Stalingrad.

yes...read War of the Rats and you get a good feel for it....

158 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:48:16pm

re: #153 JCM

Just watched a History Channel piece on Stalingrad.
Ugliness at its ugliest, Stalingrad.

Knew a fellow who was a veteran of Leningrad; he said, in attempting to describe what it was like, that it looked like a demon's nightmare, but was worse.

159 ilzito guacamolito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:48:49pm

re: #135 buzzsawmonkey

Now, of course, someone engaging in such behavior is all but publicly flogged, even as the taxing entities seek to stave off bankruptcy on the back of his indulgence.

Yes. Smoking in New York has become just that. Do any school districts still teach history?

160 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:50:31pm

re: #156 Guanxi88

It is in some respects amazing to me how very close ancient China came to becoming the birthplace of liberty, enterprise, and even industrialism. One of the great ironies of history is that the Mandarin class that grew up around the Imperial System, the men who'd earned their positions (meritocracy in action) on the basis of their literacy, education, and familiarity with the principles of Confucianism, were the very ones who ties China down in a million ways with pointless and petty bureaucratic red-tape, ultimately strangling liberty and progress in its cradle. And this by precisely the sort of stupid over-regulation that Confucius had warned against.

The Mandarin, bureaucratic class of Washington DC.
History once again repeating itself.

161 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:51:07pm

re: #159 ilzito guacamolito

Yes. www.nypost.com...]>Do any school districts still teach history?

It has become prohibitively expensive to do so, as the textbooks keep changing with each passing fad.

162 zombie  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:51:20pm

Well, even if no one else likes it, I think "Beer-Hall Clench" is currently my personal Neologism of the Month.

163 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:51:46pm

re: #160 JCM

The Mandarin, bureaucratic class of Washington DC.
History once again repeating itself.

Ah yes, the treason of the clerks.

164 jdog29  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:52:17pm

If you take away a few of the details of Nazi Germany, their policies were as peaceful as a springtime meadow.

165 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:53:09pm

re: #164 jdog29

If you take away a few of the details of Nazi Germany, their policies were as peaceful as a springtime meadow.

Norko is a paradise!
'cept for a couple o' details!

166 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:53:15pm

re: #162 zombie

Well, even if no one else likes it, I think "Beer-Hall Clench" is currently my personal Neologism of the Month.

Mine too!

(((neologism ,,,, neologism ,,,,,, damn , where the hell did I put my dictionary !)))) ((((damn ,,, can't find it ,, I'll have to wait and make it for NEXT month!)))

////

167 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:54:07pm

Teach the controversy! Why don't the want a discussion about the evidence?
//////////

168 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:55:01pm

looking at that photo up top, those guys look like the biggest bunch of weasels I've ever seen. they'll never stand up to the hordes. the europeans surrendered long ago when they stopped having kids. although I can't blame any eurobabe who refused to mate with any of those tools. good people of europe .... it's 11:58pm ...

169 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:55:10pm

re: #156 Guanxi88

The Chinese had a brilliant and ancient civilization. Mao and his followers, of course, finished much of that. (I found out about Mao's connection to Yale several year ago.) And dreams died at Tiananmen Square, the very mention of which still will get you arrested in the People's Republic.

There's quite a bit of scholarship about why the Chinese never exploited their cultural strengths the way the Europeans did to colonize the world. Boorstin's "The Discoverers" and "The Seekers" [Link: www.amazon.com...] have interesting cultural insights about that issue.

170 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:55:17pm

re: #163 Guanxi88

Ah yes, the treason of the clerks.

Pitchforks & Torches
Tar & Feathers

Clerks on a rail!

171 lostlakehiker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:56:04pm

re: #99 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I'm not defending him, by any stretch of the imagination here. Isn't everything a detail? A detail of WWII was Normandy... did he imply "minor detail"?

Is it that I just don't understand the context?

The trouble with the word "detail" is that it suggests something relatively inconsequential. If I underreport my income by 0.1 percent, I can argue before a jury that it's just a detail. If I underreport it by 10 percent, I have a problem.

Considering that maybe 30 million people died across the world in WW2, the gas chambers, responsible for over 1 million of those deaths, and maybe 3, are surely one of the single largest "details" of that war. [The holocaust ran in all to about 6 million, but shootings, starvation, and so on were other tools of that mass murder, so one can't put it all at the doors of the gas chambers.]

As a detail, the gas chambers overshadow Hiroshima, or the rape of Nanjing, or the Normandy campaign, or the battle of Kursk, in terms of casualties. Depending which number you pick, this "detail" might be bigger than the battle of Stalingrad, or it might not be.

This purely numerical take on the story wrongly ignores the moral dimensions of the thing. War is always cruel, but the battle of Stalingrad was a fight between warriors, and that has been the way of war in all ages---warriors kill each other until one side runs out of heart for the fight.

But this was different. It takes a special sort of moral grotesquery to turn the weapons of war, and further weapons one would not use in war because they are beyond the pale, against civilians who would in the normal course of events have been either purely neutral, or perhaps even part of your own war effort. To divert substantial energies to this campaign, even when the news from the front was shattering and the home front was in flames, was ---what? It's not easy to find the right word.

Demonic.

172 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:56:09pm

re: #162 zombie

It was the "Hoffbrau Haus" in Munich where Hitler's early ambitions dissolved in several large steins of spilled bier.

173 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:56:58pm

re: #167 Killgore Trout

Teach the controversy! Why don't the want a discussion about the evidence?
//////////

It's always amazed me, these minimizers and deniers, making arguments that the VERY FREAKING AUTHORS AND ACTORS of the genocide in Europe never dared make. They never denied there was a plan to do it, they never denied that they worked as hard and as fast as they could to do it, they never quibbled over the numbers, saying "Well, I think that's a bit of an exaggeration." No, these guys all said the same thing: "It wasn't illegal; we were acting as representatives of a sovereign nation, in compliance with orders received from our superiors."

174 Zimriel  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:57:28pm

Meanwhile, support for the BNP is running at 20-25%. EU Referendum is saying that the political class has noticed, and has been talking up the UKIP as the respectable protest vote. Unfortunately that 20% (mostly white lower-middle class) isn't quite as stupid as the politicos think, and they have reacted by making UKIP irrelevant.

25% is about what the LibDems get in Britain's two-and-a-half party system; the BNP could easily parlay that into parliamentary seats just by hitting white working-class Labour districts. Moreover if the Tories don't get their majority, the Tories will be in the thankless position of having to choose between Labour, Lib, or the BNP just to govern.

175 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:58:54pm

re: #169 quickjustice

The Chinese had a brilliant and ancient civilization. Mao and his followers, of course, finished much of that. (I found out about Mao's connection to Yale several year ago.) And dreams died at Tiananmen Square, the very mention of which still will get you arrested in the People's Republic.

There's quite a bit of scholarship about why the Chinese never exploited their cultural strengths the way the Europeans did to colonize the world. Boorstin's "The Discoverers" and "The Seekers" [Link: www.amazon.com...] have interesting cultural insights about that issue.

There's always old Oswald Spengler's "Faustian Culture" explanation for why we in the West picked up these ideas and ran with them, while others did not. Spengler was a fraud and a vulgar Nietzschean, but the man did have a point about that.

176 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:59:10pm

re: #168 _RememberTonyC

looking at that photo up top, those guys look like the biggest bunch of weasels I've ever seen.

Maybe they're the SECOND biggest bunch.

Image: 539w.jpg

nominee for #1

177 jdog29  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 1:59:17pm

re: #165 JCM

Norko is a paradise!
'cept for a couple o' details!

The sun is inhabitable,
'cept for a couple o' details.

178 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:00:27pm

re: #159 ilzito guacamolito

The public skools in NYC no longer teach Shakespeare, and the history taught is confined to the history of the oppressed races and classes victimized by dead white males. The old NYC commies from the 1920s and 1930s would be proud.

No wonder the youngsters love Obama: he's the outcome of decades of fierce public skool indoctrination under the radar.

179 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:00:37pm

re: #177 jdog29

The sun is inhabitable,
'cept for a couple o' details.

Aside from that, though, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

180 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:01:10pm

OT ... I have an idea to fix the Michigan auto industry. Do I send it to CEO-Bama or Tim Geithner?

181 ilzito guacamolito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:02:02pm

re: #178 quickjustice

The public skools in NYC no longer teach Shakespeare, and the history taught is confined to the history of the oppressed races and classes victimized by dead white males. The old NYC commies from the 1920s and 1930s would be proud.

No wonder the youngsters love Obama: he's the outcome of decades of fierce public skool indoctrination under the radar.

You spelled 'school' wrong.
/

182 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:02:30pm

re: #176 sattv4u2

looking at that photo up top, those guys look like the biggest bunch of weasels I've ever seen.

Maybe they're the SECOND biggest bunch.

[Link: cache.boston.com...]

nominee for #1

LOL ... the NEW three stooges? and not a "Moe" among em!

183 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:02:30pm

re: #180 _RememberTonyC

OT ... I have an idea to fix the Michigan auto industry. Do I send it to CEO-Bama or Tim Geithner?

No; send it to Fiat.

184 ilzito guacamolito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:03:59pm
185 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:04:01pm

re: #182 _RememberTonyC

LOL ... the NEW three stooges? and not a "Moe" among em!

Moe Larry and Curly were intellectual giants compared to those guys

186 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:04:02pm

re: #183 Guanxi88

No; send it to Fiat.


they may not like my idea ... but Toyota and Nissan might.

187 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:04:26pm

re: #181 ilzito guacamolito

In the last election, balloting in my local NYC district was conducted at a local public school. The hand-lettered sign on the door welcomed voters to the "poles".

188 zombie  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:04:44pm

re: #172 quickjustice

It was the "Hoffbrau Haus" in Munich where Hitler's early ambitions dissolved in several large steins of spilled bier.

Actually, it was the Bürgerbräukeller.

189 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:05:31pm

re: #186 _RememberTonyC

they may not like my idea ... but Toyota and Nissan might.

If it involves a new automobile engine that is powered entirely by Barry's boundless capacity for self-satisfaction, which appears to be our most abundant, energy-dense, and renewable power source, then I think everybody would be pleased to have it on the market.

190 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:06:02pm

Speaking of nuts: Pamela has a hilarious, typo ridden, and gramitically impossible rant posted....
No one has suffered the libelous slings and arrows more than Sarah Palin. Simply because she represents greatness. yes greatness. The better the person, the more debased and vile the attacks. Palin represents the right's best hope. Smart, hardworking, accomplished, clear, rational - every attribute the leftopaths lack. She came up the hard way, married a delicious guy that she is crazy about (and he her), has a wonderful family. And this is what riles the left. They hate normal. Despise - like Dracula hates the silver cross. Her daughter has suffered unmercifully all because she didn't get an abortion - that's what it's all about. The leftopaths are giving our five year old sex ed in school, handing our condoms in the hundreds of thousands, and offering abortion without parental consent to underage girls but Bristol Palin is a bad girl.

She's trying to start a campaign to censor anti-Palin comments in newspaper websites.

They're giving away 100's of thousands of our condoms! Tea Party!

191 Macker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:06:03pm

re: #189 Guanxi88

If it involves a new automobile engine that is powered entirely by Barry's boundless capacity for self-satisfaction, which appears to be our most abundant, energy-dense, and renewable power source, then I think everybody would be pleased to have it on the market.

But will it fit under the hood of the 2012 Pelosi?

192 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:06:54pm

re: #188 zombie

You mean I made the "pilgrimage" in Munich to the wrong beer hall? How humiliating! Nonetheless, I can vouch for the quality of the beer, and the vivacity of the well-endowed ladies serving it!

193 Macker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:07:19pm

re: #192 quickjustice

No 54-double Ds?

194 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:07:40pm

re: #191 Macker

But will it fit under the hood of the 2012 Pelosi?

The engine and drive-train should fit, no problem, but the fuel tank might be a bit of a hassle, unless we move it to the rear and put it outside the frame of the vehicle.

195 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:08:16pm

re: #187 quickjustice

In the last election, balloting in my local NYC district was conducted at a local public school. The hand-lettered sign on the door welcomed voters to the "poles".

Obama goes to Europe and has divided Poland like Chamberlain did to Czechoslovakia in 1939!?!?!?

196 Macker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:08:20pm

re: #194 Guanxi88

The engine and drive-train should fit, no problem, but the fuel tank might be a bit of a hassle, unless we move it to the rear and put it outside the frame of the vehicle.

Now there's a HIT if I ever saw one!

197 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:08:27pm

re: #190 Killgore Trout

doncha just love Amerika?

198 ilzito guacamolito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:08:35pm

re: #187 quickjustice

In the last election, balloting in my local NYC district was conducted at a local public school. The hand-lettered sign on the door welcomed voters to the "poles".

I am not surprised unless of course you vote at Kraków High.
/

199 Honorary Yooper  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:08:38pm
Jean-Marie Le Pen told the EU Parliament that “gas chambers were a detail in the history of the Second World War.”

Minor detail!?! Minor detail!?!

Twelve million people killed by the Nazis in WWII for just existing, and LePen calls it a "minor detail"!?! WTF!?!

I have some very strong words for Mr. LePen that would wind up with me getting either deleted or banned, but I will say this much...

FUCK YOU, YOU MOTHER FUCKING JEW-HATING, HOLOCAUST-DENYING, SHITHEADED SON-OF-A-BITCH ASSHOLE, LE-PIG-PEN!

200 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:08:44pm

re: #196 Macker

Now there's a HIT if I ever saw one!

Hey, it worked before, why not now? The 70's are back, baby!

201 abolitionist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:09:25pm

Le Pen repeats slur that Nazi gas chambers were a 'detail'

France 24 news story includes text (in English), and a video containing several clips of Le Pen, along with some historical commentary, and a 2nd very short video of the "detail" statement, with translation.

Le Pen was fully aware that he was enjoying parliamentary immunity.

202 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:10:16pm

re: #197 albusteve

Condom Ackbar!

203 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:10:27pm

re: #189 Guanxi88

If it involves a new automobile engine that is powered entirely by Barry's boundless capacity for self-satisfaction, which appears to be our most abundant, energy-dense, and renewable power source, then I think everybody would be pleased to have it on the market.

The Smug-o-motivator!

204 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:11:13pm

re: #189 Guanxi88

If it involves a new automobile engine that is powered entirely by Barry's boundless capacity for self-satisfaction, which appears to be our most abundant, energy-dense, and renewable power source, then I think everybody would be pleased to have it on the market.

wait ... you stole my idea.

Seriously ... the Big Three need to become the Big Two. There's enough good ideas in the two survivors (of GM Ford Chrysler etc) to drive a competitive American auto scene. And The Japanese automakers need to move into the vacant Michigan factories. But the union will need to back WAY down on salary demands to save jobs.

But if autoworkers want to work in Michigan, they can take the jobs or leave them. It may not work out to $72/hour, but $48/hour is not bad. What do you suppose unemployed auto workers would do if given the option?

205 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:11:19pm

re: #193 Macker

Come to think of it, I made the "pilgrimage" to several of the beers halls. (There used to be seven in total, representing each of Munich's major beer manufacturers. It's a bit of a haze, come to think of it, but I don't actually remember Burgerbrau. I don't remember any burgers, either!) And yes, Dr. Brassiere had many amply endowed customers in all of those establishments!

206 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:12:16pm

re: #203 JCM

The Smug-o-motivator!

Can you imagine, it though?

Lamborghini pricing, Le Car performance, Yugo quality.

207 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:12:53pm

re: #202 Killgore Trout

Condom Ackbar!

HA!...BIG AROUSAL IS RIPPING US OFF!

208 scottishbuzzsaw  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:13:04pm

Have a great evening, Lizard Clan!

Until we meet again, keep the anti-idiotarian faith!

209 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:14:17pm

re: #203 JCM

re: #206 Guanxi88

Can you imagine, it though?

Lamborghini pricing, Le Car performance, Yugo quality.

Tail Light Guarantee,,,,,,,,

"Guarantted for as long as I can see your tailights as you drive away from the dealership"

210 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:14:28pm

re: #206 Guanxi88

Can you imagine, it though?

Lamborghini pricing, Le Car performance, Yugo quality.

Now that's a sales pitch!

Meanwhile an entrepreneur has actual introduced something that makes sense.

Telsa S.

Other than a rebate, no Mandarin's involved.

211 pink freud  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:14:53pm

re: #190 Killgore Trout

Speaking of nuts: Pamela has a hilarious, typo ridden, and gramitically impossible rant posted....
No one has suffered the libelous slings and arrows more than Sarah Palin. Simply because she represents greatness. yes greatness. The better the person, the more debased and vile the attacks. Palin represents the right's best hope. Smart, hardworking, accomplished, clear, rational - every attribute the leftopaths lack. She came up the hard way, married a delicious guy that she is crazy about (and he her), has a wonderful family. And this is what riles the left. They hate normal. Despise - like Dracula hates the silver cross. Her daughter has suffered unmercifully all because she didn't get an abortion - that's what it's all about. The leftopaths are giving our five year old sex ed in school, handing our condoms in the hundreds of thousands, and offering abortion without parental consent to underage girls but Bristol Palin is a bad girl.

Wow.

FTR, let it be known that that five year old sex-ed has got to go! They should be learning the up-to-date stuff!

212 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:15:01pm
213 debutaunt  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:15:09pm

re: #41 Guanxi88

Amazes me, these people. Don't they realize that oven-stuffers (and those who attempt to minimize or downplay them) are at least as dangerous as, and maybe even more dangerous than, folks who scream out Allahu Akbar?

When these suited thugs are done with the Turks, I wonder who's next on the list?

Ignoring reality is a special kind of crazy.

214 Zimriel  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:15:17pm

re: #190 Killgore Trout

Speaking of nuts: Pamela has a hilarious, typo ridden, and gramitically impossible rant posted....

She's trying to start a campaign to censor anti-Palin comments in newspaper websites.

They're giving away 100's of thousands of our condoms! Tea Party!

First, she isn't trying to start that campaign; she is linking to Conservatives For Palin. The C4P site is probably embarrassed by Gellar's support.

Second, C4P isn't trying to censor the Anchorage Daily News via the State of Alaska; it's getting readers to contact advertisers, so that the ADN quits running slander.

Third, as for the anti-Palin comments, they include slander like Trig Trooferism. Which, in your eyes, is legitimate political discourse.

Other than that, your comment was accurate./

215 pat  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:15:27pm

It is a detail that I suspect Le Pen approves of.

216 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:16:00pm

re: #210 JCM

Now that's a sales pitch!

Meanwhile an entrepreneur has actual introduced something that makes sense.

Telsa S.

Other than a rebate, no Mandarin's involved.

A wonderful idea. Pair that up with cheap nuclear power on the grid, and the Mid-East oil ticks can eat their damned petroleum for all I care.

217 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:17:06pm
218 Zimriel  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:17:16pm

Pardon the link. Conservatives4Palin is here. On the blogroll, no mention of Atlas Shrugs or JihadWatch or the stalker site or any of that shit.

219 ilzito guacamolito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:17:19pm

re: #199 Honorary Yooper

Minor detail!?! Minor detail!?!

Twelve million people killed by the Nazis in WWII for just existing, and LePen calls it a "minor detail"!?! WTF!?!

I have some very strong words for Mr. LePen that would wind up with me getting either deleted or banned, but I will say this much...

FUCK YOU, YOU MOTHER FUCKING JEW-HATING, HOLOCAUST-DENYING, SHITHEADED SON-OF-A-BITCH ASSHOLE, LE-PIG-PEN!

I think I get what you are saying, but you are being a trifle vague...
/

220 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:19:05pm

re: #199 Honorary Yooper

Minor detail!?! Minor detail!?!

Twelve million people killed by the Nazis in WWII for just existing, and LePen calls it a "minor detail"!?! WTF!?!

I have some very strong words for Mr. LePen that would wind up with me getting either deleted or banned, but I will say this much...

FUCK YOU, YOU MOTHER FUCKING JEW-HATING, HOLOCAUST-DENYING, SHITHEADED SON-OF-A-BITCH ASSHOLE, LE-PIG-PEN!


you left out "foul smelling."

221 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:19:19pm

North Korea rocket fizzles....


This should be a thread.

222 Macker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:19:34pm

re: #210 JCM

Now that's a sales pitch!

Meanwhile an entrepreneur has actual introduced something that makes sense.

Telsa S.

Other than a rebate, no Mandarin's involved.

What I wonder is: should one of the Big 3 die in order for Tesla to arise?

223 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:20:25pm

re: #222 Macker

What I wonder is: should one of the Big 3 die in order for Tesla to arise?

Fool! Tesla will arise as soon as the great planet Nabiru returns, to take him back to his people.

224 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:20:42pm

Meanwhile in Milan

[Link: jta.org...]

this meetup included BNP, Front Nationale, Forza Nuova, and others

225 ilzito guacamolito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:21:43pm

re: #217 buzzsawmonkey

"Le Pen, lizards!"

--Little War Orphan Annie

/sorry, just had to say it

OK, that does it! This shiksa has to go change her undies and throw a few pork chops on the grill for the family. Have a good evening all!

Too bad I can only give one upding for that!
226 zombie  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:22:08pm

re: #221 NYCHardhat

North Korea rocket fizzles....

This should be a thread.

Looks like their Taepodong missile needed some Viagra.

227 Macker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:22:58pm

re: #223 Guanxi88

Ain't he a disciple of Xenu?

228 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:23:35pm

re: #214 Zimriel

Third, as for the anti-Palin comments, they include slander like Trig Trooferism. Which, in your eyes, is legitimate political discourse.


Did you see the comments she wants removed?

Alaskan4Ever wrote on 04/04/2009 01:50:58 PM: The Palin Family is an embarrassment to Alaska and Alaskans. GO AWAY SARAH! And take your crazy family with you!


Why should that opinion be censored? She has no right to dictate what people say on other blogs. If she doesn't like it then she shouldn't visit their site. Trying to bully a company by threats of advertiser boycotts is not conducive to free speech.

229 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:23:39pm

re: #222 Macker

What I wonder is: should one of the Big 3 die in order for Tesla to arise?

The big 3 are nearly dead anyway. Ford is the healthiest.

GM has the Volt, but it's a POS compared to the Telsa.

230 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:23:40pm

re: #221 NYCHardhat

North Korea rocket fizzles....


This should be a thread.

re: #226 zombie

Looks like their Taepodong missile needed some Viagra.

"Plop Plop, Fizz Fizz, Oh what a mistake it is!"

(with apologies to the old Alka Seltzer theme)

231 Macker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:23:59pm

re: #226 zombie

Looks like their Taepo NOdong missile needed some Viagra.

There, fixed that for ya!

232 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:24:04pm

In a recent Joods Actueel interview Filip DeWinter took pains to state that his path is "diverging" from that of Lepen, but he's pushed Lepen away in the past only to pull him back and hug him. He wouldn't wouldn't answer the question about Lepen's picture appearing in the bookcase at his home. (choosing instead to deflect the question by the mistake the interviewer made of calling it his "mantle", he said "I don't have a fireplace in my home". True in itself, but really just a dodge of the question.

233 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:24:34pm

re: #228 Killgore Trout

...and if she doesn't want her kids to learn about sex then she can use a private school or home school them.

234 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:25:25pm

re: #227 Macker

Ain't he a disciple of Xenu?

There's this weird cult built up around Nikola Tesla; never fully grasped it, but have heard folk arguing, matter-of-factly, that the guy was, at a minimum, a re-incarnated Atlantean.

235 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:26:08pm

re: #227 Macker

Ain't he a disciple of Xenu?

Beats a minion of Gozer any day.
//

236 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:26:26pm

re: #226 zombie

Looks like their Taepodong missile needed some Viagra.

Mai Dong No Rise!

237 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:26:55pm

re: #233 Killgore Trout

...and if she doesn't want her kids to learn about sex then she can use a private school or home school them.

sex ed in public schools should not be mandatory...there is no legit reason for it to be...meanwhile maybe the public schools should try to put out a better product eh comrade?

238 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:27:23pm
239 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:27:26pm

re: #236 JCM

Mai Dong No Rise!

Sounds like the #3 plate at the local chow-mein joint, for the carb-conscious.

240 Jr Ewing  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:28:24pm

Sorry to be off topic.

Look what Al Jazeera arabic has been airing.
Al Jazeera arabic.

241 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:31:17pm

Guys, you have to see this. I put a huge smile on my face:

242 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:32:03pm

re: #238 Thanos

Ringo and Paul together

to bad those guys never got back together again...I always thought they had alot of unfinished business

243 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:32:45pm

re: #241 UberInfidel67

Guys, you have to see this. I put a huge smile on my face:




tickling yourself again?

244 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:33:44pm

re: #243 sattv4u2

No. lol It is just the cutest thing I have ever seen. There really are some happy people in the world!

245 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:33:45pm

re: #243 sattv4u2

tickling yourself again?

Easy, there! The threads don't go "blue" till late-night.

246 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:34:18pm

re: #244 UberInfidel67

No. lol It is just the cutest thing I have ever seen. There really are some happy people in the world!

faux

247 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:34:47pm

*it is that better Mr. Spelling Policeman?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

/damn typos

248 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:36:31pm

re: #247 UberInfidel67

*it is that better Mr. Spelling Policeman?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

/damn typos

I call them Thumb O's

My Big Fat Thumb dragging on the keys!

249 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:36:44pm

re: #246 albusteve

faux

So, what of it? Look, the West is in the final stages of a spiral toward destruction, the last remaining super-power is in the hands of a smug incompetent, and our enemies around the world are continuing to hone and refine their implements of destruction. Maybe something as trivial and contrived, but pleasing, as this little vid could be just the sort of thing to chase away care for a moment. Lord knows we could all use it.

250 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:37:43pm

re: #214 Zimriel

Ah, I followed the link and discovered that's the same blog trying to pressure Hot Air to censor anti-Palin comments....
UPDATED: Allahpundit Will Ban Commenters Who Insult Sarah Palin
Who do they think they are? They have no control over what other people say on websites that don't belong to them. Period.

251 Zimriel  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:37:51pm

Okay, so there wasn't Trig Trutherism on that thread. (That was mentioned in reference to ADN's regular staff. So that's all right, then!)

There is however plenty of comments about Palin "pallin' around with criminals" because, her husband's half-sister was arrested. That is slander; it implies Palin knew that her sister-in-law was a criminal.

There are also comments about Biden's daughter snorting coke. That's slander too (until they prove that the woman in the video is her). The ADN's comment problems aren't limited to righties.

Not to mention that it's just ugly for the ADN to run articles about a tangential relative of the governor, and then to leave the comments open to gloating, and to off-topic comments about the governor's immediate family.

252 Jimash  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:38:01pm

re: #240 Jr Ewing

Whaoa talk about your demonic smiles !
falalalal anthrax lalallalalmexico lalalalal Oy vey !~

253 stevieray  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:38:19pm

Le Pen's use of the word "detail" just doesn't sit right with me. I've been mulling it over, trying to put my finger on why it seems so wrong, and it finally dawned on me:

If the gas chambers and the murder of millions can be seen as a "detail", whether a major or minor one, it can be removed from the "core" of Nazi ideology. It can be presented as a "detour" from an otherwise mainstream movement.

I think that's what Le Pen wants -- to pretend that Nazism can be a regular political movement. By acknowledging the holocaust even as he moves it to the periphery of Nazi ideology, he can present his beliefs as part of the mainstream.

254 Dustyvet  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:38:46pm

How many teleprompters does it take to screw in Obama's light bulb? 12.

[Link: dinahlord.typepad.com...]

255 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:38:52pm

re: #249 Guanxi88

So, what of it? Look, the West is in the final stages of a spiral toward destruction, the last remaining super-power is in the hands of a smug incompetent, and our enemies around the world are continuing to hone and refine their implements of destruction. Maybe something as trivial and contrived, but pleasing, as this little vid could be just the sort of thing to chase away care for a moment. Lord knows we could all use it.

And, in replying to myself, as is my wont, let me add that if I couldn't see re-runs of Beavis and Butthead on a regular basis, I'd very likely find myself painted blue and running the streets in a loincloth and sneakers, running amok with a flamethrower. The human mind can only take so much.

256 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:39:50pm

re: #240 Jr Ewing

Sorry to be off topic.

Look what Al Jazeera arabic has been airing.
Al Jazeera arabic.

I'm been looking for that video with a large screen. Thanks!

257 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:40:12pm

re: #254 Dustyvet

How many teleprompters does it take to screw in Obama's light bulb? 12.

[Link: dinahlord.typepad.com...]

I thought the joke went like this?

How many Obamas does it take to change a light-bulb?

Just one; he holds the bulb, and the whole freaking world revolves around him.

258 Zimriel  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:40:35pm

re: #250 Killgore Trout

Ah, I followed the link and discovered that's the same blog trying to pressure Hot Air to censor anti-Palin comments....
UPDATED: Allahpundit Will Ban Commenters Who Insult Sarah Palin
Who do they think they are? They have no control over what other people say on websites that don't belong to them. Period.

C4P think they're a bunch of private individuals like any other, with any other private individual's right to make noise about offensive comments. He has the same right you have to complain about Gellar and, now, C4P. AP has the counter-right to tell C4P to pound sand; or not, as here.

259 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:42:31pm

The Anchorage Daily News is a McClatchy rag, they will be rabidly frothing against Sarah Palin from now until 2012 at minimum. It's perfectly legitimate to run campaigns against what they are saying, and that's not censorship. Carrying that campaign beyond the paper to the blogosphere is just sincerely nuts however, so for that part I agree with KT.

260 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:43:03pm

re: #240 Jr Ewing

Sorry to be off topic.

Look what Al Jazeera arabic has been airing.
Al Jazeera arabic.

Eh, more clap-trap. Let them keep talking; there is One Who sees and Who hears, and he will settle their hash.

261 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:43:40pm

Howdy.

Back from a road bike ride. Off for a quick mountain bike ride. I am reluctantly admitting that, while I love the sleek lines of the road bike, I have much more fun on the mountain bike.

Anyway, here's Mark Steyn, on Why We're Going to Hell in a Handbasket, Part 367,423:

President Sarkozy, the Times of London reported, "said that the summit provided a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to give capitalism a conscience." What he means by "a conscience" is a global regulatory regime that ensures there's nowhere to move to. If you're France, which has a sluggish, uncompetitive, protectionist, high-unemployment business environment whose best and brightest abandon the country in ever-greater droves, it obviously makes sense to force the entire planet to submit to the same growth-killing measures that have done wonders for your own economy. But it's not good news for the rest of the world.

262 yesandno  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:44:17pm

re: #253 stevieray

Le Pen's use of the word "detail" just doesn't sit right with me. I've been mulling it over, trying to put my finger on why it seems so wrong, and it finally dawned on me:

If the gas chambers and the murder of millions can be seen as a "detail", whether a major or minor one, it can be removed from the "core" of Nazi ideology. It can be presented as a "detour" from an otherwise mainstream movement.

I think that's what Le Pen wants -- to pretend that Nazism can be a regular political movement. By acknowledging the holocaust even as he moves it to the periphery of Nazi ideology, he can present his beliefs as part of the mainstream.

You make an excellent point.

263 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:44:28pm

re: #261 Occasional Reader

Howdy.

Back from a road bike ride. Off for a quick mountain bike ride. I am reluctantly admitting that, while I love the sleek lines of the road bike, I have much more fun on the mountain bike.

Anyway, here's Mark Steyn, on Why We're Going to Hell in a Handbasket, Part 367,423:

Leave Le France!

264 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:45:23pm

re: #250 Killgore Trout

What the hell is wrong with calling Palin "Caribou Barbie"?! To me, it's a huge compliment while sticking it to her detractors.

265 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:47:05pm

re: #233 Killgore Trout

...and if she doesn't want her kids to learn about sex evolution then she can use a private school or home school them.

FTFY.

Sex, unlike evolution, is not a subject that should be taught in public school.

266 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:47:08pm

re: #264 MandyManners

At least it has some elements of humor to it. The comments on both of those sites say a lot of really bad stuff about Obama and nobody's trying to shut them down.

267 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:47:32pm

re: #261 Occasional Reader

Howdy.

Back from a road bike ride. Off for a quick mountain bike ride. I am reluctantly admitting that, while I love the sleek lines of the road bike, I have much more fun on the mountain bike.

Anyway, here's Mark Steyn, on Why We're Going to Hell in a Handbasket, Part 367,423:

Global governance of the economy?

268 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:48:00pm

re: #264 MandyManners

What the hell is wrong with calling Palin "Caribou Barbie"?! To me, it's a huge compliment while sticking it to her detractors.

all this petty blog spatting is just another AmIdol reality diversion for people with nothing better to do...some get a little to deep in imo....who gives a shit

269 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:48:45pm

re: #266 Killgore Trout

At least it has some elements of humor to it. The comments on both of those sites say a lot of really bad stuff about Obama and nobody's trying to shut them down.

I can tolerate just about anything toward a politician except racism and sexism. Oh, and religious bigotry on a personal level.

270 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:48:53pm

re: #265 Alouette

Too bad. It is taught in public school. those who don't like it should find an alternative. Don't expect the world to cater to your sensitivities.

271 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:49:04pm

re: #248 sattv4u2

I call them Thumb O's

My Big Fat Thumb dragging on the keys!

I blame my keyboard it has a mind of its own.

272 Jr Ewing  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:49:13pm

re: #256 unrealizedviewpoint

I'm been looking for that video with a large screen. Thanks!


Np dude.. does anyone know who that guy is?

273 esch  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:49:44pm

re: #267 MandyManners

Global governance of the economy?

That's just begging for 1000 black markets to flourish.

274 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:49:50pm

re: #272 Jr Ewing

Np dude.. does anyone know who that guy is?

Memory serves, the hawk-faced guy with the tea towel was a Kuwaiti; cleric, scholar, something like that.

275 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:50:18pm

re: #273 esch

That's just begging for 1000 black markets to flourish.

Yes, let a thousand flowers bloom, and a hundred schools contend. (Channeling Mao)

276 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:50:20pm

re: #265 Alouette

FTFY.

Sex, unlike evolution, is not a subject that should be taught in public school.

For many many kids today, if it's not learned at school, it will mostly only be learned on the intertubes.

277 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:50:31pm

re: #268 albusteve

all this petty blog spatting is just another AmIdol reality diversion for people with nothing better to do...some get a little to deep in imo....who gives a shit

Just like some like to discuss WAB's wardrobe and the possibility that the demise of newspapers might lead to a memory-hole, some have the ability to "give a shit" about several issues on different levels.

278 esch  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:51:32pm

re: #275 Guanxi88

Yes, let a thousand flowers bloom, and a hundred schools contend. (Channeling Mao)

GMTA. That's what I originally was going to post.

Freaky.

279 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:51:36pm

re: #275 Guanxi88

Yes, let a thousand flowers bloom, and a hundred schools contend. (Channeling Mao)

"Channeling Mao" would make a great name for a punk band; it's a lousy way to run a country, though.

280 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:51:36pm

re: #270 Killgore Trout

Too bad. It is taught in public school. those who don't like it should find an alternative. Don't expect the world to cater to your sensitivities.

those that don't like it should resist through the system....what a ridiculous notion that people have to fold up and do what the NEA tells them

281 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:52:02pm

re: #270 Killgore Trout

Too bad. It is taught in public school. those who don't like it should find an alternative. Don't expect the world to cater to your sensitivities.

There's nothing wrong with providing an opt-out option for parents who would rather teach their kids about an extremely private matter outside of a government-run class. This is not on the same level as evolution.

282 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:52:13pm

re: #271 JCM

I blame my keyboard it has a mind of its own.

That explains the lucid posts from your IP address when you're not typing!

// j/k

283 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:52:38pm

re: #273 esch

That's just begging for 1000 black markets to flourish.

And, more policing to shut them down.

284 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:53:42pm

re: #277 MandyManners

Just like some like to discuss WAB's wardrobe and the possibility that the demise of newspapers might lead to a memory-hole, some have the ability to "give a shit" about several issues on different levels.

do you hate narrow minded people?

285 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:53:48pm

re: #272 Jr Ewing

Np dude.. does anyone know who that guy is?

I believe he's a Palestinian simply speaking his mind.
/

286 ilzito guacamolito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:54:07pm

Back for one more on anOT~
Congratulations to BrawnGP and Jenson Button for their second win in F1 in Malaysia!

Good evening now for real.

287 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:54:09pm

re: #240 Jr Ewing

Sorry to be off topic.

Look what Al Jazeera arabic has been airing.
Al Jazeera arabic.

That asshole needs a visit from a Delta operator team, pronto.

I'd like to see that nuclear power plant on Lake Michigan that "supplies all the electricity of North Africa", though. Man, the things I learn from Islamic "professors".

288 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:54:19pm
289 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:54:40pm

re: #283 MandyManners

And, more policing to shut them down.

Great thing about the black market, though, is that the crooks are always one step ahead of the regulators, even as the writers are always one step ahead of the censors.

290 Racer X  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:55:08pm

Jeff Gordon still sucks.

291 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:55:39pm

re: #290 Racer X

Jeff Gordon still sucks.

General Franco is still dead.

292 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:55:43pm

AGAIN ,,, OT ,, and apropos of absolutely nothing,,,

Regardless of what you think of Mormonism as a religion, or your thoughts on Mitt Romney or Harry Reid or The Osmond's,,,

The Mormon Tabernacle Choir is stunning!

(we now return you to your normal scheduled outrage)

293 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:55:50pm

re: #284 albusteve

do you hate narrow minded people?

Right now, I can't think of anyone I hate. Not even FCBBHO.

294 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:56:10pm

re: #267 MandyManners

Global governance of the economy?

As Steyn points out, despite all the hand-waving at the G20 summit about tax havens and so forth, these things had absolutely zilch to do with the financial/economic crisis.

If Obama wants to go after the roots of the crisis, he could just ring up his buddy Barney Frank.

295 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:56:44pm

re: #293 MandyManners

Right now, I can't think of anyone I hate. Not even FCBBHO.

I do give a shit about stuff...really

296 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:56:46pm

re: #293 MandyManners

Right now, I can't think of anyone I hate. Not even FCBBHO.

You're a better Lizard than I, then.

297 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:56:58pm

re: #289 Guanxi88

Great thing about the black market, though, is that the crooks are always one step ahead of the regulators, even as the writers are always one step ahead of the censors.

Maybe in the past.

298 snowcrash  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:57:00pm

re: #281 MandyManners
My kids are in public school. We have to give permission to allow them to view sex ed/health films. There is also a parent night so you can preview the film. It doesn't have to be a big deal and makes me wonder about school districts that make it one.

299 stevieray  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:57:03pm

re: #262 yesandno

Le Pen is doing what magicians do -- misdirecting your eyes. People like that Rosenthal guy linked to upthread will focus on the small victory, (i.e. getting a Nazi to admit the holocaust occurred), all the while missing the their main objective (remove the stain of mass murder).

That is not a step forward. The holocaust is permanently a part of Nazism, not a one-time aberration in an otherwise acceptable ideology.

300 esch  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:57:15pm

re: #283 MandyManners

Of course. Gonna be tons of fun.

301 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:57:25pm

re: #297 MandyManners

Maybe in the past.

I hope that the past is a reliable guide to the future, but these days....

302 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:57:29pm

re: #290 Racer X

Jeff Gordon still sucks.

That may be so, but he's doing it with the Texas Motor Speedway 1st place trophy in his hands tonight!

303 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:57:32pm

re: #294 Occasional Reader

As Steyn points out, despite all the hand-waving at the G20 summit about tax havens and so forth, these things had absolutely zilch to do with the financial/economic crisis.

If Obama wants to go after the roots of the crisis, he could just ring up his buddy Barney Frank.

Never let a good crisis go to waste!

304 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:57:43pm

re: #293 MandyManners

Right now, I can't think of anyone I hate. Not even FCBBHO.

Osama bin Laden? Nasrallah? I cheerfully confirm that I hate them. No problem t'all saying that.

305 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:57:47pm

re: #249 Guanxi88

I even giggled. And for the record, I don't giggle. Ever.

306 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:58:05pm

re: #282 sattv4u2

That explains the lucid posts from your IP address when you're not typing!

// j/k

That's it! Out with the Mac, getting a dumb PC!

//

307 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:58:11pm

re: #295 albusteve

I do give a shit about stuff...really

We need to talk about your toilet-training, dude.

308 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:58:38pm

re: #269 MandyManners

I don't get upset either. The racism stuff would be offensive no matter who it was directed to. I'm personally making an effort to be more respectful the the Pres but I don't get offended if other people call him names. If they're funny names I laugh.

309 Sunlight  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:59:04pm

re: #41 Guanxi88

Amazes me, these people. Don't they realize that oven-stuffers (and those who attempt to minimize or downplay them) are at least as dangerous as, and maybe even more dangerous than, folks who scream out Allahu Akbar?

Proven to be more... until the screamers get a nuke.

310 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:59:19pm

re: #296 Guanxi88

You're a better Lizard than I, then.

Oh, I deeply dislike quite a few. Well, FCBBHO and his ilk. And, jihadis. And, Nazis. The usual suspects.

311 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:59:42pm

re: #298 snowcrash

My kids are in public school. We have to give permission to allow them to view sex ed/health films. There is also a parent night so you can preview the film. It doesn't have to be a big deal and makes me wonder about school districts that make it one.

To me, this is a good approach.

312 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:59:45pm

re: #305 UberInfidel67

I even giggled. And for the record, I don't giggle. Ever.

You're human - so giggle, already! Guffaw! Get it out of your system. There's nothing wrong with any of it; even during these days (and, may it please the Lord never to allow it to be) and in darker days to come, we're going to need just this edge, the full richness of humanity - the seriousness, the folly, the good, the bad, and the ugly (great flick!) to get through with anything like even a vestigal soul left at the end.

313 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 2:59:54pm

re: #273 esch

That's just begging for 1000 black markets to flourish.

Won't even need to be a "black" market, exactly. If the G20 countries all decide to uniformly tax corporations up the wazoo (to take one example), there will always be plenty of non G20 countries who will be happy to step in and offer tax breaks.

314 ciaospirit  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:00:00pm

re: #190 Killgore Trout

Tea Party!

When are you, all impuning all insightful one, going to start ragging on Pajamas Media ?

There will be some HUGE announcements coming out over the next ten days regarding the Tea Party Movement. Some of these announcements will include exciting news about our new partnership with Pajamas Media TV.

The Tea Party Movement Coalition will be LIVE in the Los Angeles TV studio this coming Monday, April 6th, to do a LIVE broadcast of the Tea Party Coalition TV Show.

Join us LIVE at [Link: www.pjtv.com...] at 4:00 PM Pacific Coast time this coming Monday for a LIVE nationwide broadcast for the Tea Party Movement.

315 razorbacker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:00:53pm

Details. Naught but mere details.

In the '60s, at a deer camp, I was a boy among men (literally). These rough fellows had, just a little over twenty years before, been locked in mortal combat with what had been one of the world's finest armed forces. It was hard to comprehend that these foul-mouthed, flatulent, hard-drinking S.O.B.s had actually been part of that war, much less the winners. But they had.

One night a fellow from Stuttgart, Arkansas, was telling about a raid that his bomber group had been on in September, 1943. They were over ball-bearing factories in Stuttgart, Germany. Rough raid. Lost a lot of B-17s and their crews. One thing that he said stuck with me. "You know, I was prolly dropping bombs on kinfolk. Cousins, aunts, uncles, who knows? Kinfolk were trying their level best to kill me, up there high above them. On another day, under different circumstances, we'd have been drinking beer together and talking sports, instead of trying to kill each other. War is a strange thing."

War is a strange thing. Composed of details, mere details. But those details make a difference in how things work out, in the end.

316 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:01:24pm

Keeping the faith.

Soldier's body identified after half a century

Robert Schoening was a skinny 17-year-old from a dairy farm in Blaine when he lied about his age and joined the army. He went to Korea, where his company came under intense enemy attack, and Schoening was listed missing in action on Nov. 27, 1950.

Nearly 60 years later, the U.S. Department of Defense announced last week that it had identified Schoening's remains. He will be buried in June at Arlington National Cemetery near Washington, D.C., with full military honors.

"It's a great honor to be buried at Arlington," said his brother, William Schoening, 76, of Salem, Ore. He had learned in December that the government had identified his older brother, and was flooded with a mix of feelings: Gratitude that he was home, relief that he hadn't been imprisoned, sadness that he had suffered violently.

317 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:01:36pm

re: #307 MandyManners

We need to talk about your toilet-training, dude.

I'm eating more fiber lately...that might explain my attitude

318 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:01:41pm

re: #288 buzzsawmonkey

I just figured out what Pamela's rant was about. I thought it was funny because it appeared to be just a mishmash of unrelated lunacy: Wahabiism, sex ed, Obama, condoms, Palin, etc. But now I see it's a list of stuff that proves the world isn't catering to her sensitivities.

319 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:01:51pm

re: #304 Occasional Reader

Osama bin Laden? Nasrallah? I cheerfully confirm that I hate them. No problem t'all saying that.

I might change my mind about this tomorrow but, I don't want to engage in hatred 'cause it hurts me to carry that negative emotion in my heart. That doesn't mean I'd not know what to do with ObL, Nassie, et al., if I were to run into them in a dark alley.

320 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:02:35pm

re: #308 Killgore Trout

I don't get upset either. The racism stuff would be offensive no matter who it was directed to. I'm personally making an effort to be more respectful the the Pres but I don't get offended if other people call him names. If they're funny names I laugh.

I have to include misogyny.

321 J.S.  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:02:37pm

re: #263 Guanxi88

"France" is a feminine noun...thus, one has "de la France"...

322 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:02:40pm

re: #314 ciaospirit

When are you, all impuning all insightful one, going to start ragging on Pajamas Media ?

When? I've already started.

323 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:03:01pm

re: #319 MandyManners

I That doesn't mean I'd not know what to do with ObL, Nassie, et al., if I were to run into them in a dark alley.

Offer your outstretched hand to their unclenched fists?

/

324 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:03:24pm

re: #313 Occasional Reader

Won't even need to be a "black" market, exactly. If the G20 countries all decide to uniformly tax corporations up the wazoo (to take one example), there will always be plenty of non G20 countries who will be happy to step in and offer tax breaks.

Won't those companies just up and leave all the G20 nations?

325 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:03:29pm

re: #312 Guanxi88
I think I had a mild nervous breakdown the other day. I went to the beer distributor to look at the loose tobacco prices. I started chuckling and said "THEY GOTTA BE KIDDING!" The girl behind the counter said "This was Bush's idea". I almost fell over. Then, someone who I thought looked like a hippy said "No miss, this belongs to Obama". I started chanting HOPE&CHANGE HOPE&CHANGE. People were looking at me like I was nuts. I had plenty who agreed with me though. lol Now, instead of cussing, I say 'hope&change".

I'm nookin' futz

326 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:03:41pm
327 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:03:56pm

re: #321 J.S.

"France" is a feminine noun...thus, one has "de la France"...

Eh, but the sound of it doesn't invoke that famous rallying cry. Besides, I make it a point of pride not to learn Latinate languages created out of whole cloth by Romans with head colds.

328 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:04:12pm

re: #288 buzzsawmonkey

Why need it be? What benefit does it serve? "Sex education" has increased mightily in the past 4 decades or so; can anyone really say with certainty or honesty that the public schools' assumption of this task has improved people's sexual conduct?

For that matter, given the public schools' demonstrated incompetence at teaching grammar, literacy generally, simple mathematics, history, geography, or civics, why would anyone think that public school instruction in sex is a good idea?

Usually I feel compelled to leap to the defense of public school teachers, but I can't argue with you about the teaching of grammar. At some point districts decided that grammar instruction didn't impact writing. Current English ed majors aren't even taught how to teach grammar.

Another irritation: unless ad administrator is holding teachers accountable for teaching the curriculum, NO ONE know what a a teacher is teaching. I can prove what I've taught, but I know colleagues who shut the door and do as they like.

329 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:04:21pm

re: #320 MandyManners

I have to include misogyny.

Don't worry your pretty little head about misogyny, darlin'
/Misogynist

330 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:04:56pm

re: #329 Killgore Trout

Don't worry your pretty little head about misogyny, darlin'
/Misogynist

Ha!

331 stevieray  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:05:11pm

re: #326 buzzsawmonkey

I didn't realize that what was being discussed was an Atlas rant.

I went there seldom even before she went off the rails because the site was balky and ugly to look at, and her commentary was too breathy and demi-hysterical even at its best to make for interesting narrative.

Yep. Took forever to load, and gave a headache after it did.

332 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:05:26pm

re: #324 MandyManners

Won't those companies just up and leave all the G20 nations?

It could go like this; first they re-incorporate in tax havens. (Nothing new there.) Then Obama & Co. try to tax/regulate them more based on where they produce. So they move (even more) production abroad. Then O & Co. try to punish them with trade restrictions. Then a trade war starts. Wheee!

Anyway, off to do some mountain biking (sans mountains).

333 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:05:40pm

re: #323 Occasional Reader

Offer your outstretched hand to their unclenched fists?

/

Damn hard to hold a Desert Eagle with an out-stretched hand.

334 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:05:59pm

re: #331 stevieray
Sounds like crappy beer.

335 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:06:32pm

Woot1 The Kid's back from the movie with his GPa. bbiab Gotta' go hug him.

336 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:07:11pm

re: #325 UberInfidel67

I think I had a mild nervous breakdown the other day. I went to the beer distributor to look at the loose tobacco prices. I started chuckling and said "THEY GOTTA BE KIDDING!" The girl behind the counter said "This was Bush's idea". I almost fell over. Then, someone who I thought looked like a hippy said "No miss, this belongs to Obama". I started chanting HOPE&CHANGE HOPE&CHANGE. People were looking at me like I was nuts. I had plenty who agreed with me though. lol Now, instead of cussing, I say 'hope&change".

I'm nookin' futz

If you're into making your own, might I suggest you take a look at certain bulk pipe tobaccos? Prince Albert is very cheap by the pound, and is 100% burley tobacco; there are other brands out there (Five Brothers, Granger, etc.) that are all-burley, and are not taxed at the same rate as cigarette tobacco, as they are technically "pipe tobacco". Interesting to note - for many decades, folks smoked the same tobacco in pipes and cigarettes, here in the states; it was all burley, all the time.

337 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:07:59pm

re: #320 MandyManners

re: #329 Killgore Trout

Don't worry your pretty little head about misogyny, darlin'
/Misogynist

And while you're at it, get me a beer and a sammich!

338 USBeast  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:08:31pm

re: #241 UberInfidel67

Thanks, Ub. I needed that.

339 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:08:34pm

re: #333 MandyManners

Damn hard to hold a Desert Eagle with an out-stretched hand.

Careful with dat there gun missy!

/Misogynist

340 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:10:28pm
341 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:10:56pm

re: #336 Guanxi88
Thanks for the information. Until I quit completely, that is a good option. I will quit though....I refuse to support the Man. I have already cut back quite a bit and I will NEVER, even under threat of death, pay these prices. No. Way.

342 esch  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:11:00pm

re: #336 Guanxi88

Just keep in mind the big 'C'.

My Grandfather smoked a pipe for years. I watched him die gasping for breath because the C started in his lungs and ended up in his brain eating away his speech and respiratory control centers. It does happen.

343 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:11:38pm

re: #336 Guanxi88

If you're into making your own, might I suggest you take a look at certain bulk pipe tobaccos? Prince Albert is very cheap by the pound, and is 100% burley tobacco; there are other brands out there (Five Brothers, Granger, etc.) that are all-burley, and are not taxed at the same rate as cigarette tobacco, as they are technically "pipe tobacco". Interesting to note - for many decades, folks smoked the same tobacco in pipes and cigarettes, here in the states; it was all burley, all the time.

Let me add, as well, that the ribbon-cut of these cheap bulk pipe tobaccos is exactly right for cigarette-making as well, adn tehir moisture content is low enough to allow a reliable burn

344 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:12:23pm

re: #342 esch

Just keep in mind the big 'C'.

My Grandfather smoked a pipe for years. I watched him die gasping for breath because the C started in his lungs and ended up in his brain eating away his speech and respiratory control centers. It does happen.

No denying it - I quite tobacco some years ago, dangerous stuff. But, if one is to indulge a dangerous vice, why go broke doing it?

345 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:12:44pm

re: #338 USBeast
I would probably pee my pants with glee if I saw that happen somewhere. It just....made me feel good : ) And you are quite welcome : )

346 J.S.  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:13:22pm

re: #340 buzzsawmonkey

The only time in Canada when English grammar is taught (inadvertently) is during lessons teaching French as a second language.

347 jorline  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:13:57pm

details...details...details Le Pen is a fucking Nimrod.

348 eon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:14:21pm

re: #221 NYCHardhat

North Korea rocket fizzles....

This should be a thread.

CBS News' coverage fizzled, too.

Money quote from correspondent David Marin;

The North Korean launch represents little danger strategically, as it is much harder to launch a nuclear warhead than a satellite.

Uhh, don't tell NASA that, David.

/Warheads are heavier, true. They also don't have to reach as high a velocity...dude.

cheers

eon

349 esch  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:14:49pm

re: #344 Guanxi88

Sad to say it will be an effective deterrent for many. The wrong way to go about it, of course. If someone chooses to smoke, that's their right and I respect it.

350 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:15:45pm

re: #340 buzzsawmonkey

I don't like to dump on teachers gratuitously, but I see my nephews, going to "good" schools, totally unable to spell and uninterested in learning how to do so, and using barbarous locutions like "I brang this home" without any sense that such things might be wrong or, if wrong, something that requires correction.

I run into people daily who cannot calculate simple charges even with the aid of a computerized cash register. I find that my students, about to graduate something referred to as college, have no concept of how the society in which they will shortly be theoretically-functioning adults is governed or organized.

I cannot help but deduce from this that basic pedagogy has been wiped from most primary and secondary schools as if it were chalk on a blackboard passed over by a wet sponge.

But I'm sure they're praised for expressing themselves so well...never mind if no one else can understand them.

My home room kids were answering some cultural questions, and I was appalled at their ignorance--I called them "Visigoths." I wouldn't tell them what that meant, so several of them actually looked it up.

351 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:16:14pm

re: #349 esch
It took my Father 6 months to die from mesothelioma. There are soooo many other causes of cancer.I am not really worried about it. Being female, there are many ways for it to hit me. Smoking is just one of them. Remember, I did say I was trying to quit : )

352 solomonpanting  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:16:41pm

re: #340 buzzsawmonkey

I cannot help but deduce from this that basic pedagogy has been wiped from most primary and secondary schools as if it were chalk on a blackboard passed over by a wet sponge.

While children may or may not enter school with minds of blank slates, it sure does seem that many leave in that state.

353 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:16:41pm

re: #349 esch

Sad to say it will be an effective deterrent for many. The wrong way to go about it, of course. If someone chooses to smoke, that's their right and I respect it.

That's the thing about these taxes that always bothered me: If tobacco is so bad, if it wreaks so much damage, why, oh why, is the State so dependent on revenue from its taxation? If it's evil, ban it already, or just shut your collective mouths and keep collecting the taxes, but keep in mind that you will, at some point, have to come to terms with the fact that the Government makes more money from tobacco taxes (and settlements) than the tobacco companies do from sales of their products.

354 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:16:43pm

re: #348 eon

If you are going to launch a warhead to a specific target, then that is indeed more complicated than getting a satellite into any old orbit.

355 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:17:40pm

re: #350 goddessoftheclassroom
My niece is half black. She started with this "Yes she do" kind of grammer. I told her not to speak to me until she put to use the english skills she learned. I. Hate. That.

356 esch  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:18:14pm

re: #351 UberInfidel67

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be patronizing.

I share that story to motivate people 'on-the-edge' to stick with the quitting plan.

357 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:18:46pm

re: #356 esch
I didn't take it that way at all. Really I didn't. I was just replying. It's cool : )

358 Racer X  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:18:55pm

re: #355 UberInfidel67

My niece is half black. She started with this "Yes she do" kind of grammer. I told her not to speak to me until she put to use the english skills she learned. I. Hate. That.

Word.

359 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:19:18pm

re: #356 esch

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be patronizing.

I share that story to motivate people 'on-the-edge' to stick with the quitting plan.

Nothing at all wrong with that, either. You wish to spare others the pain you and yours had to endure.

360 esch  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:19:26pm

re: #355 UberInfidel67

Oh no you din't!

/

361 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:19:41pm

re: #353 Guanxi88

Imperial Russia made something like a third of its revenue from tax on vodka, a bad situation in the big picture. The government had no incentive to discourage drunkenness & the revenue surely was a pittance compared to the cost to the country of widespread alcoholism.

362 eon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:20:06pm

re: #354 Ojoe

If you are going to launch a warhead to a specific target, then that is indeed more complicated than getting a satellite into any old orbit.

Also true. But what if the specific target is, say, the West Coast of the United States?

/That might be "specific" enough for Lil' Kim.

cheers

eon

363 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:20:12pm

re: #358 Racer X
And that too! Biggest irritation: the use of "prolly". People need to stop! They sound stupid! AAARRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

364 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:20:35pm

re: #360 esch
Don't make me get up from this desk!

365 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:20:38pm

re: #362 eon

True, as Kim is nuts.

366 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:20:39pm

re: #361 Ojoe

Imperial Russia made something like a third of its revenue from tax on vodka, a bad situation in the big picture. The government had no incentive to discourage drunkenness & the revenue surely was a pittance compared to the cost to the country of widespread alcoholism.

Of course, I can see their side of it, too: Folks are gonna booze up, and so we might as well get something for the trouble it's bound to cause us.

367 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:21:26pm

re: #366 Guanxi88

LOL

368 Jr Ewing  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:21:31pm

re: #285 unrealizedviewpoint

I believe he's a Palestinian simply speaking his mind.
/

whats shocking is that they aired it live for the entire ME to see..

Al Jazeera English, the international television channel belonging to the Emir of Qatar's news network, has a fight on its hands to conquer America.

Is anyone even trying to block them?

369 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:21:47pm
370 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:21:58pm

re: #366 Guanxi88

Of course, I can see their side of it, too: Folks are gonna booze up, and so we might as well get something for the trouble it's bound to cause us.

Turkey has a government monopoly on Tobacco, Salt, and Alcohol; manufacturers have to pay an insanely high licensing fee to be allowed into the market at all.

371 esch  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:22:02pm

re: #357 UberInfidel67

Ok. Just wanted to make sure.

Since I have Asperger's I tend to be a jerk sometimes. 8P

372 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:22:13pm

So if everyone stops smoking...there will be no revenue for the "undocu....I mean "uninsured" Americans. How is this supposed to work?

373 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:22:28pm

re: #365 Ojoe

True, as Kim is nuts.

An insult to nuts!

374 jwb7605  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:23:33pm

re: #347 jorline

details...details...details Le Pen is a fucking Nimrod.

He hunts well?

375 shiplord kirel  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:23:44pm

re: #340 buzzsawmonkey

I don't like to dump on teachers gratuitously, but I see my nephews, going to "good" schools, totally unable to spell and uninterested in learning how to do so, and using barbarous locutions like "I brang this home" without any sense that such things might be wrong or, if wrong, something that requires correction.

I run into people daily who cannot calculate simple charges even with the aid of a computerized cash register. I find that my students, about to graduate something referred to as college, have no concept of how the society in which they will shortly be theoretically-functioning adults is governed or organized.

I cannot help but deduce from this that basic pedagogy has been wiped from most primary and secondary schools as if it were chalk on a blackboard passed over by a wet sponge.

I've mentioned before the young Moon-hoax believer I met a few years ago. She was arguing that the Moon landings had to have been faked. Her main "proof": Her boyfriend was interested in photography and he thought the shadows were wrong. I responded by mentioning the ease with which Soviet and other foreign military analysts could track the missions and detect any hoax. She almost yelped that the military were all robots and "they do as they're told." It eventually emerged that she did not know there is more than one military force in the world. She thought all "military" was American and they all took orders from the Pentagon. She thought the armed foreigners she saw from time to time on TV were simply spontaneously created resistance groups.
This person was a junior pre-med student.

376 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:24:03pm

re: #371 esch
Well since I am female and trying to quit smoking and strongly disliking what is happening to my country, I can be a bitch sometimes. lol lol : )

377 eon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:24:53pm

re: #363 UberInfidel67

And that too! Biggest irritation: the use of "prolly". People need to stop! They sound stupid! AAARRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

That word grates on the ear like an out-of-tune guitar.

As does "brung", a "word" I have actually heard TV newsreaders use as the past tense of "bring".

(Apparently, their dictionaries do not include "brought".)

Past tense is tricky, but I am now forced to conclude that they aren't even bothering to try.

cheers

eon

378 screaming_eagle  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:24:55pm

re: #362 eon

Also true. But what if the specific target is, say, the West Coast of the United States?

/That might be "specific" enough for Lil' Kim.

cheers

eon

Just hitting land would be good enough.

379 Colonel Panik  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:25:10pm

re: #255 Guanxi88

You don't need to watch reruns. New episodes of Beavis and Butthead are running live from Washington DC.

Beavis is now our Treasury Secretary.

380 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:25:28pm

Good afternoon, everyone!

Global warming in action.

Right now, at 5:24 p.m., it is 83 degrees and sunny in Baton Rouge.
We are under a FREEZE WATCH for tomorrow, as unseasonably cold air will filter down and bring possibly record low temps.

I've already turned off the pilot for my heater - guess I need to restart it!

381 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:26:00pm
382 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:26:03pm

re: #371 esch

Ok. Just wanted to make sure.

Since I have Asperger's I tend to be a jerk sometimes. 8P

You, too, huh? It's not that bad, provided you keep in mind, as you seem to be doing, that most people's expectations and interpretations do not coincide in most ways with our own. What distinguishes the sane from the insane is the recognition of the difference, and the conclusion that the universe should not bend to accommodate our preferences.

383 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:26:26pm

re: #379 Colonel Panik

You don't need to watch reruns. New episodes of Beavis and Butthead are running live from Washington DC.

Beavis is now our Treasury Secretary.

No way! hehehehe! Cool!

384 Sunlight  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:26:42pm

If Charles keeps up with these Euro threads, we may get some more current info bubbling up from under the rocks. The creepiness of these Euro types and their snakey connections into U.S. (creationist?) groups make for informative threads and keep me from falling asleep in the sun.

385 Cognito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:26:56pm

re: #340 buzzsawmonkey

How old are your nephews? If they're older than about six, that would drive me crazy.

(Although if they're in kindergarten I wouldn't expect them to properly conjugate 'bring' just yet.)

386 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:27:06pm

re: #354 Ojoe

If you are going to launch a warhead to a specific target, then that is indeed more complicated than getting a satellite into any old orbit.

We've gotten so good at it we are considering convention warheads on our SLICBM as super bunker busters.

387 yesandno  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:27:14pm

re: #340 buzzsawmonkey

I don't like to dump on teachers gratuitously, but I see my nephews, going to "good" schools, totally unable to spell and uninterested in learning how to do so, and using barbarous locutions like "I brang this home" without any sense that such things might be wrong or, if wrong, something that requires correction.

I run into people daily who cannot calculate simple charges even with the aid of a computerized cash register. I find that my students, about to graduate something referred to as college, have no concept of how the society in which they will shortly be theoretically-functioning adults is governed or organized.

I cannot help but deduce from this that basic pedagogy has been wiped from most primary and secondary schools as if it were chalk on a blackboard passed over by a wet sponge.

The use of myself as a subject in a sentence..."Myself and Billy went..." is guaranteed to have the same effect on me as fingernails on the chalkboard. I think someone told everyone that to use I or me was selfish and in order to seem less selfish they used myself to substitute for I or me.

Drives me bonkers.....

388 Macker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:27:50pm

re: #377 eon

And don't forget "gooder"....

389 debutaunt  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:28:06pm

re: #292 sattv4u2

AGAIN ,,, OT ,, and apropos of absolutely nothing,,,

Regardless of what you think of Mormonism as a religion, or your thoughts on Mitt Romney or Harry Reid or The Osmond's,,,

The Mormon Tabernacle Choir is stunning!

(we now return you to your normal scheduled outrage)

I always laugh when it is called the Morbid Tabernacle Choir.

390 Cognito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:28:10pm

re: #382 Guanxi88

You guys are making me curious whether there's a higher-than-usual incidence of Asperger's here, or on political sites in general.

391 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:28:10pm
392 esch  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:28:21pm

re: #382 Guanxi88

Yeah there's a lot of it in my family. A cranky bunch of eccentric geniuses.

393 Cognito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:28:26pm

re: #391 buzzsawmonkey

Man, that's a shame.

394 yesandno  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:30:22pm

re: #349 esch

Sad to say it will be an effective deterrent for many. The wrong way to go about it, of course. If someone chooses to smoke, that's their right and I respect it.

Really strange thing is they don't want to use it as a deterrent....they want the extra revenue from those that smoke. And they think everyone will still smoke the same amount with the additional tax....hell, they are already spending the increased revenue. It is a source of revenue, was always that. Deterrence had little to do with it...except among the naive.

395 eon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:31:34pm

re: #372 UberInfidel67

So if everyone stops smoking...there will be no revenue for the "undocu....I mean "uninsured" Americans. How is this supposed to work?

Rather like the increase in taxes on tobacco products that went into effect April 1st will lead to ever-increasing revenue for childrens' health programs.

One of the fundamental flaws in "sin taxes" is that those advocating them invariably assume that the money they collect for their "idealistic" programs will always be there, often in ever-increasing amounts. They fail to consider the element of human nature which holds that "if a luxury costs more than I think it should, I won't buy it".

Tobacco is a luxury item, not a necessity, just like spirits. If taxes make it too expensive, people who use it will cut back, or even quit. And what funds the childrens' health programs, then?

Once more, the "enlightened ones", and especially The One, are about to get an object lesson in the Law of Unintended Consequences. Of course, it probably won't sink in.

/I'm anticipating tantrums, actually.

cheers

eon

396 USBeast  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:31:37pm

I quit smoking cigarettes (Lucky Strikes, non-filter) 15 years ago next month. I have never regretted it. Until three years ago, I had no contact with any tobacco product. Then much to my surprise (and not so secret delight) my wife presented me with a fine cigar and a bottle of brandy for Christmas. I enjoyed both.

Since we broke up last August I have treated myself to one cigar a week. On Sunday night (my Friday night) I fix myself a nice dinner, plug in my Netflix movie and light up. Tonight's dinner; a bacon wrapped tenderloin and salad. Tonight's movie; "The Man Who Fell To Earth". Tonight's cigar; a $12, hand rolled Partagas.

397 esch  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:31:37pm

re: #390 Cognito

My theory is that we're more comfortable in these settings because of the lack of eye contact and a greater conversational lag giving more time to formulate your thoughts into words. Less of a 'rushed' feeling.

398 Cognito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:32:35pm

re: #397 esch

My theory is that we're more comfortable in these settings because of the lack of eye contact and a greater conversational lag giving more time to formulate your thoughts into words. Less of a 'rushed' feeling.

Hey, that's fascinating.

I'd love to know how many Asperger's guys are here. No way of knowing, really.

399 Zimriel  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:32:50pm

re: #380 reine.de.tout

Good afternoon, everyone!

Global warming in action.

Right now, at 5:24 p.m., it is 83 degrees and sunny in Baton Rouge.
We are under a FREEZE WATCH for tomorrow, as unseasonably cold air will filter down and bring possibly record low temps.

I've already turned off the pilot for my heater - guess I need to restart it!

Gaah! It's going down to 43 tonight and 36 tomorrow. In Houston. In April.

400 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:32:58pm

re: #377 eon I actually have relatives that are so stupid, they say things like "She can't hear you, she's death." (instead of deaf, get it) I just want to wrap my hands around their neck! Oh the pain!

401 JCM  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:34:28pm

re: #400 UberInfidel67

I actually have relatives that are so stupid, they say things like "She can't hear you, she's death." (instead of deaf, get it) I just want to wrap my hands around their neck! Oh the pain!

Can I axe you a question?
///////

402 solomonpanting  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:34:57pm

re: #377 eon

As does "brung", a "word" I have actually heard TV newsreaders use as the past tense of "bring".

I wanted to be the all American kid from New York,
and I walked in, sat down, I was hung down, brung down, hung up, and all
kinds o' mean nasty ugly things.

It's in a song, so it must be a word.

403 esch  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:35:17pm

re: #401 JCM

Can I axe you a question?
///////

Sure, I'll glaive you an answer.

404 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:35:17pm
405 eon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:35:53pm

re: #400 UberInfidel67

I actually have relatives that are so stupid, they say things like "She can't hear you, she's death." (instead of deaf, get it) I just want to wrap my hands around their neck! Oh the pain!

There is one mistake that I often hear on news broadcasts that drives me insane. That being the use of "digged" as the past tense of "dig". The correct word is "dug", of course, but they don't seem to teach that insignificant detail in Schools of Journalism.

/To me, it's like fingernails scraping across a blackboard.

cheers

eon

406 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:36:28pm

re: #397 esch

My theory is that we're more comfortable in these settings because of the lack of eye contact and a greater conversational lag giving more time to formulate your thoughts into words. Less of a 'rushed' feeling.

I suspect your theory is accurate.

I have a nephew who seems to be a bright kid, but he will not make eye contact with anyone, and he will actually physically flinch or move away if somebody gets too close to him. He needed help with a tie, and my husband was helping him, and he turned his head to the side and up a bit, and did not move from that position until the tie was finished.

He spends huge amounts of time on the computer, and tends to not want to go anywhere outside of school or home.

My brother and sis-in-law are convinced he's just "shy" - but his behavior goes beyond shyness, imo.

I think it is a real shame that they refuse to deal with him in a way where he could be learning how to better interact with people.

407 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:36:29pm

re: #401 JCM
AAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH! My head almost exploded there. Thank God I had it wrapped with tin foil AND duct tape!

408 razorbacker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:36:36pm

Education is a strange critter. If someone wants to get an education, nothing on earth seems able to stop them. If they don't want to get an education, nothing on earth seems able to compel them.

Not class size, not per-child expenditure, not leaky roofs or poor computer connectivity. Nothing.

And I believe that fewer and fewer want to be educated.

Prolly some kind of plot. Betcha KKKarl Rooooove is behind it. Mebbe Bushitler, too.

Thank Obama all that is changing. Notice how much smarter kids seem the last few months?

409 debutaunt  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:36:54pm

re: #328 goddessoftheclassroom

Usually I feel compelled to leap to the defense of public school teachers, but I can't argue with you about the teaching of grammar. At some point districts decided that grammar instruction didn't impact writing. Current English ed majors aren't even taught how to teach grammar.

Another irritation: unless ad administrator is holding teachers accountable for teaching the curriculum, NO ONE know what a a teacher is teaching. I can prove what I've taught, but I know colleagues who shut the door and do as they like.

It's a shame that dumbing-down is deliberate.

410 Jimash  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:36:59pm

re: #407 UberInfidel67


Duck Tape.

411 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:37:09pm

re: #401 JCM

Can I axe you a question?
///////

That's my fave.
Of course, I know people who eat bald eggs.

412 Sheila Broflovski  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:37:25pm

re: #270 Killgore Trout

Too bad. It is taught in public school. those who don't like it should find an alternative. Don't expect the world to cater to your sensitivities.

Why should it be taught in public school?

413 callahan23  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:37:44pm

Better late than never:

Never again!

I am not Jewish but take it personal as a Lizard!

414 Zimriel  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:37:45pm

re: #398 Cognito

Hey, that's fascinating.

I'd love to know how many Asperger's guys are here. No way of knowing, really.

On a blog thread, obsessiveness in detail is the biggest "poker tell" of which I know. If they like, for instance, punk rock, then you'll hear all about the MC5 this and they influenced the Ramones that and blah blah blah blah. Lack of empathy too, although admittedly that's harder to guage in a text medium.

415 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:37:51pm

re: #387 yesandno

The use of myself as a subject in a sentence..."Myself and Billy went..." is guaranteed to have the same effect on me as fingernails on the chalkboard. I think someone told everyone that to use I or me was selfish and in order to seem less selfish they used myself to substitute for I or me.

Drives me bonkers.....

I think it's a way of avoiding using "I" and "me" because the speaker isn't sure which is correct.

416 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:37:54pm

re: #405 eon
"I know a kid who hung himself". WTF? I should teach....really, I should.

417 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:38:01pm

re: #390 Cognito

You guys are making me curious whether there's a higher-than-usual incidence of Asperger's here, or on political sites in general.

re: #397 esch

My theory is that we're more comfortable in these settings because of the lack of eye contact and a greater conversational lag giving more time to formulate your thoughts into words. Less of a 'rushed' feeling.

re: #398 Cognito

I'll second the eye-contact thing, and make a motion to include the absence of any non-verbal cues, always my weak suit.

The pace is different here, and in online fora in general; it allows more of the sort of intellectual and linguistic riffing for which most Aspies are known; we're wonderful on paper. Face-to-face, at least for me, not so much.

The 'net has been a blessing for us, but a mixed one. It is very easy to withdraw into this other world for the safety, security, and freedom that anonymity and absence-of-self that it offers.

Hey, that's fascinating.

I'd love to know how many Asperger's guys are here. No way of knowing, really.

418 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:38:43pm
419 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:38:49pm

re: #411 reine.de.tout

That's my fave.
Of course, I know people who eat bald eggs.

Warshing machines were quite popular where I was raised.

420 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:39:15pm

re: #384 Sunlight

If Charles keeps up with these Euro threads, we may get some more current info bubbling up from under the rocks. The creepiness of these Euro types and their snakey connections into U.S. (creationist?) groups make for informative threads and keep me from falling asleep in the sun.

Few people realize how influential some of these Euro groups are on the far right in the US. There are several connected groups who appear "social conservative" at a glance, but who are all somewhat netted together by white supremacism. They range from Birchers, to CoCC, to Vdare, Stormfront, and cross spectrum into libertarian circles via Jason Raimondo and Lew Rockwell. Many of them write for a rag founded by one of the Godfathers of Conservatism, Paul Weyrich. Weyrich was also profoundly influenced by Serbian nationalist lobby groups, Serbian/Russian Melkite Orthodoxy, and there are ties to Jihad watch and that nexus as well. (American Council for Kosovo, Sam Francis, etc.) It would blow your mind if anyone ever diagrammed it all out, I somewhat refuse to do so simply because it would be so destructive to the right and would take a lot of innocents down with the evil ones.

421 esch  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:39:31pm

re: #406 reine.de.tout

That sure sounds like Asperger's to me. He likely could use some help. NOT pharmaceutical. Just communication skills and dealing with the anxiety. That's what we do with my son and it has worked wonders.

422 Colonel Panik  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:39:44pm

re: #383 Guanxi88

No way! hehehehe! Cool!

Somebody on some website has done a "separated at birth" pic of Beavis side by side with TurboTax Timmy. The resemblance is remarkable.

"Stimulus" huh huh huh.

423 goddessoftheclassroom  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:39:49pm

re: #408 razorbacker

Education is a strange critter. If someone wants to get an education, nothing on earth seems able to stop them. If they don't want to get an education, nothing on earth seems able to compel them.

Not class size, not per-child expenditure, not leaky roofs or poor computer connectivity. Nothing.

And I believe that fewer and fewer want to be educated.

Prolly some kind of plot. Betcha KKKarl Rooooove is behind it. Mebbe Bushitler, too.

Thank Obama all that is changing. Notice how much smarter kids seem the last few months?

That's the attitude I'm seeing now.

424 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:40:35pm

re: #419 Guanxi88

Really? I remember them being wooshing machines. That one there drives my daughter NUTS! lol

425 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:41:18pm

re: #414 Zimriel

On a blog thread, obsessiveness in detail is the biggest "poker tell" of which I know. If they like, for instance, punk rock, then you'll hear all about the MC5 this and they influenced the Ramones that and blah blah blah blah. Lack of empathy too, although admittedly that's harder to guage in a text medium.

The obsessiveness is there, true, and the lack of empathy thing often takes the form of inappropriate humor, from what I've seen.

That lack of empathy thing makes my poor wife crazy, though. I'm working on it; anything to keep that super-touchy, hyper-emotional lunatic quiet....
//

426 screaming_eagle  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:41:23pm

re: #408 razorbacker

Education is a strange critter. If someone wants to get an education, nothing on earth seems able to stop them. If they don't want to get an education, nothing on earth seems able to compel them.

Not class size, not per-child expenditure, not leaky roofs or poor computer connectivity. Nothing.

And I believe that fewer and fewer want to be educated.

Prolly some kind of plot. Betcha KKKarl Rooooove is behind it. Mebbe Bushitler, too.

Thank Obama all that is changing. Notice how much smarter kids seem the last few months?

I have had many conversations regarding this. Goverment/Schools can't provide the motivation/inspiration to learn.

427 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:41:51pm

re: #421 esch

That sure sounds like Asperger's to me. He likely could use some help. NOT pharmaceutical. Just communication skills and dealing with the anxiety. That's what we do with my son and it has worked wonders.

Yeah, second the behavioral recommendation.

428 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:42:00pm

re: #397 esch

My dad, an officer in WW2, and Jesuit educated before that, found that if he gave an order to an enlisted man, using precise and economical language, it was often not comprehended, but if he gave the same order interspersed with a number of foul words, it was understood. He said that the extra words were spacers, in order to give the receiving person time enough to comprehend the words that had the order's meaning in them.

Some things do not change, apparently.

429 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:42:32pm

re: #425 Guanxi88
This Aspergers stuff sounds soooo like my son.

430 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:44:08pm

re: #429 UberInfidel67

This Aspergers stuff sounds soooo like my son.

Try to get him in with a good neurologist, following a referral from a pediatrician, if that's age-appropriate. There are signs, but you really need a competent diagnostician first; it took many years of pointless pharmaco-therapy for depression and anxiety before I met with a neurologist who was able to figure out what was wrong.

431 So?  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:45:17pm

Why is it that the real assholes of the world never get seem to get an irreversible illness that truly causes them to suffer?

432 AuntAcid  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:45:31pm

re: #419 Guanxi88

Warshing machines were quite popular where I was raised.

you ever fall down a whale?

433 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:45:49pm

re: #431 So?

Why is it that the real assholes of the world never get seem to get an irreversible illness that truly causes them to suffer?

No, they have one; I'd take physical cancer (may the Lord shield me from it!) over spiritual any day.

434 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:46:28pm

re: #432 AuntAcid

you ever fall down a whale?

Weren't too many of those in the hollers. Springs, mostly.

435 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:47:42pm

re: #430 Guanxi88
He's 21. I can't force him to do anything. He was always extremely smart. He finished 4 of 5 tests for his GED. He said he can't do the essay part because "he knows what he wants to say, he just can't get it from his head to the paper". He didn't talk until he was about three years old. He was evaluated then, they found no problem. Then, the SCHOOL diagnosed him with ADD. Yes, the SCHOOL. I did the ritalin for about a month until I couldn't take his mood swings anymore. He has friends, but he was always an introvert in school. He played no team sports. He gets uncomfortable around large groups of people...even to this day. Just a lot of things you guys are mentioning fit him to a tee.

436 So?  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:47:53pm

re: #433 Guanxi88

No, they have one; I'd take physical cancer (may the Lord shield me from it!) over spiritual any day.

where did the physical Vs the spiritual come from?

in my opinion if you have one you have the other. i've been dealing with the big C for 7.5 years, so I know of what I speak

437 razorbacker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:48:06pm

re: #428 Ojoe

When, I wonder, did what used to be foul language become acceptable? Don't try to tell me that it is not, there is too much evidence that it is.

When I was a boy, and one of the men would curse, they would immediately wince, look my way, and say, "Sorry, Son. Pardon my French."

And women? They did not curse. My mother's strongest curse was "Suuuugar".

But I knew that she meant shit.

438 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:49:12pm

re: #437 razorbacker
I have replaced bad words with HOPE&CHANGE.

439 razorbacker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:49:14pm

re: #434 Guanxi88

Ever been up thar to Chicargo?

440 AuntAcid  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:49:52pm

re: #431 So?

Why is it that the real assholes of the world never get seem to get an irreversible illness that truly causes them to suffer?

I figure they're here to teach me life's lessons...no pain no gain, so to speak.

441 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:49:52pm

re: #439 razorbacker
A lot of my family likes to drive UP to PICKSBURGH.

442 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:49:53pm

re: #436 So?

where did the physical Vs the spiritual come from?

in my opinion if you have one you have the other. i've been dealing with the big C for 7.5 years, so I know of what I speak

May you be healed and restored to your health.
What I'm getting at is that being an evil, rotten son of a bitch is its own punishment, in this world and in the world to come.

443 debutaunt  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:50:16pm

re: #385 Cognito

How old are your nephews? If they're older than about six, that would drive me crazy.

(Although if they're in kindergarten I wouldn't expect them to properly conjugate 'bring' just yet.)

Little kids generally say bringed, which makes sense to them.

444 So?  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:51:00pm

re: #442 Guanxi88

May you be healed and restored to your health.
What I'm getting at is that being an evil, rotten son of a bitch is its own punishment, in this world and in the world to come.

Yes, I'd have to agree with that statement.

445 debutaunt  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:51:25pm

re: #387 yesandno

The use of myself as a subject in a sentence..."Myself and Billy went..." is guaranteed to have the same effect on me as fingernails on the chalkboard. I think someone told everyone that to use I or me was selfish and in order to seem less selfish they used myself to substitute for I or me.

Drives me bonkers.....

I think they don't know whether to say I or me, so they use myself.

446 quickjustice  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:52:50pm

re: #395 eon

I don't think it's the law of unintended consequences. I think it intentional bootstrapping to get the program enacted. It's the classic: "This expensive government program won't cost you anything, because tobacco taxes will pay for it." You then agree to the program. Five years later, with the tobacco tax base eroding, it becomes, "Oh, we must tax you to pay for this wonderful, existing program, because tobacco tax isn't carrying its weight anymore."

447 J.S.  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:53:46pm

re: #420 Thanos

Melkites Russian? Aren't they Middle Eastern (you know, Syria, Lebanon, Turkey, etc.) they all speak Arabic in their church services, etc.

448 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:54:08pm

re: #444 So?

Yes, I'd have to agree with that statement.

And to repeat, may you be healed and restored to your health.

449 esch  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:54:27pm

re: #435 UberInfidel67

I put an Asperger's link in the spinoff. Check it out.

I know a number of people who can attest that just knowing it's real and they're not crazy or abnormal made a world of difference for their confidence and anxiety. Including me.

450 eon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:54:54pm

re: #416 UberInfidel67

"I know a kid who hung himself". WTF? I should teach....really, I should.

The past tense of "hang" is actually one of the trickier ones in the English language. For instance, in this context, it is quite correct to say that "Several of the Nazi officials convicted of war crimes at Nuremberg were hung." But in official U.S. government documents, that sentence would use the word "hanged" instead, following the traditional judicial usage, "This court orders you to be hanged by the neck until you are dead."

By comparison, if I say, "I hanged a picture on the wall", I just sound like an illiterate dolt.

English is in fact one of the simplest, and yet most expressive, languages ever conceived, with the capability to deliver more raw data in less word--count than any other language capable of being spoken by a human. But some of its more obscure rules can even confound experts in its use.

/I'm by no means an expert, but I got straight "A's" in English throughout public school, and was not required to take any English classes in college after taking the entry exams.

cheers

eon

451 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:55:04pm

re: #449 esch
Will do. Thank you.

452 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:56:51pm

re: #451 UberInfidel67

Will do. Thank you.

Beware, though, of the pitfalls. There are a number of groups out there who can cause real harm. Over-diagnosis of the condition is always a hazard, of course, but even more pernicious are the Aspie Advocates (Aspies for Freedom come to mind) who argue that the condition is not a disorder, but is in fact better than being what they sneeringly call NT (neuro-typical).

453 Guanxi88  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:57:59pm

Adios, honcos!

454 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:59:40pm

re: #452 Guanxi88

Some of the parallels with my son are staggering. I will look into this further.

455 eon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 3:59:50pm

re: #446 quickjustice

I don't think it's the law of unintended consequences. I think it intentional bootstrapping to get the program enacted. It's the classic: "This expensive government program won't cost you anything, because tobacco taxes will pay for it." You then agree to the program. Five years later, with the tobacco tax base eroding, it becomes, "Oh, we must tax you to pay for this wonderful, existing program, because tobacco tax isn't carrying its weight anymore."

That is distinctly possible. A similar bait-and-switch has been used repeatedly here in Ohio to justify higher taxes "for the schools", when the Ohio Lottery was supposed to pay for same. As yet, Ohio's schools haven't seen one penny of "lottery money"- it gets spent on lottery operations, for the most part, feeding and sustaining a large addition to the State bureaucracy. All unionized, and all voting for... guess which party's candidates.

/Hint- They always call any Republican who is opposed to casino gambling, or new and more expensive lottery game programs, a "reactionary who doesn't want people to have fun."

cheers

eon

456 UberInfidel67  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 4:01:07pm

I'm out for now. Catch ya'll later. Thanks for the good conversation and good advice : )

457 esch  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 4:01:09pm

re: #451 UberInfidel67

You are MOST welcome. Anything I can do to save other young people (esp young men) from going what I went through is worth it.

Just out of curiosity, let me know what he thinks of the material. I suspect his reaction will be something along the lines of "HOLY ****!"

458 screaming_eagle  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 4:02:00pm

re: #455 eon

That is distinctly possible. A similar bait-and-switch has been used repeatedly here in Ohio to justify higher taxes "for the schools", when the Ohio Lottery was supposed to pay for same. As yet, Ohio's schools haven't seen one penny of "lottery money"- it gets spent on lottery operations, for the most part, feeding and sustaining a large addition to the State bureaucracy. All unionized, and all voting for... guess which party's candidates.

/Hint- They always call any Republican who is opposed to casino gambling, or new and more expensive lottery game programs, a "reactionary who doesn't want people to have fun."

cheers

eon

You forgot to mention. Use lotto tickets as bribes to get out of speeding tickets.

459 irongrampa  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 4:44:30pm

Tobacco tax is, to me, just another example of social engineering. I will FORCE you to conform to my idea of how to live your life.

I object to that view vehemently.No one's business how I live, long as it's legal, moral and ethical.

So spare me the "it's for your own good".

460 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:04:36pm

re: #450 eon

English is in fact one of the simplest, and yet most expressive, languages ever conceived, with the capability to deliver more raw data in less word--count than any other language capable of being spoken by a human.

Conrad, whose native language was polish, but who wrote masterpieces in English, would agree with that.

461 Code Red 21  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:06:13pm

A detail.......mmm I wonder if this POS would like to take a little walk into one of those little "details". When will people wake-up to this de ju vu 1930's shit that's coming down?

462 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:06:52pm

"Polish" with a capital P.

Oh my.


PIMF

463 medaura18586  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:11:02pm

Le Pen,

What a sick scandalmonger.

/spit!

464 wiffersnapper  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 9:54:57pm

*bangs head repeatedly against the wall*

465 Pupdawg  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 6:04:33am

Surprised he didn't label the slaughter of 6 million men, women and children a mere distraction.

466 Land Shark  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 8:17:38am

Sigh. You just can't fix stupid. The gas chambers were a "detail?" Soon it will become a mere "misunderstanding" if these creeps keep it up.

It's distressing to see so many in the anti-jihad camp look the other way when it comes to who they associate with. Those white supremacists can't help themselves, no matter how much they may try to fool people, their hatred of Jews is too strong to be contained for long.

467 P-DEX  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 8:22:22am

To quote Indiana Jones:

"Nazi's...I hate these guys."


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