Bush Bowed Too

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More than a few people on the right are screaming that Barack Obama should be impeached for bowing to King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia.

Those of you who are buying into this hyperventilating nonsense need to see this video. (Click the image to watch.)

This deference to a very bad country has been going on for decades; it didn’t start with Barack Obama, or with George W. Bush, or with John F. Kennedy for that matter.

Instead of impeaching Barack Obama, America needs to impeach its gas tanks.

And just imagine how much screaming there would be if Obama had let Abdullah hang a medal around his neck.

(Hat tip: Zach.)

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1002 comments
1 zombie  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:36:55pm

I thought we outlawed slavery back in 1865?

2 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:38:03pm

when the karma bill comes due ... the saudis are going to be in a world of hurt

3 zombie  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:38:24pm

'Cause we are veritably enslaved to these desert-dwelling monsters.

4 yochanan  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:38:32pm

we have been kissing saudi touckas for years.

5 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:39:29pm

Bowing before a foreign dictator who is spending huge sums of money to fund terrorism against the United States is incredibly offensive, no matter which president is doing it.

6 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:39:38pm

will they help us deal with iran?

7 screaming_eagle  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:39:40pm

Drill ANWAR now. Screw the Saudis.

8 Bloodnok  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:39:50pm

I had an inkling this was the case. The more things change and etc.

9 zombie  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:39:50pm

Is it possible to slant-drill from 8,000 miles away?

10 VegasRick  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:39:54pm

I agree that the zero should not be impeached for bowing to the saudi's. There are about 3 trillion other reasons to do so though.

11 Racer X  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:40:02pm

I'm loving the Global Warming hysteria.

Unintended consequence - Fuck the Saudis.

12 Gella  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:40:42pm

money, money, money, money

13 Racer X  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:40:47pm

re: #9 zombie

Is it possible to slant-drill from 8,000 miles away?

I bet we could get there from Israel.

14 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:40:51pm

It's Jacques Cousteau's fault. He got his start doing oil exploration in the gulf.

15 brookly red  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:40:55pm

Is it a considered a bow? What was placed around his neck, & do I want to know? Eww

16 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:40:58pm

re: #9 zombie

Is it possible to slant-drill from 8,000 miles away?

You have given me a new idea for a jobs stimulus program.

17 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:41:08pm

the only good part of the shitty economy is less $$ for islamonazi oil sheikhs

18 razorbacker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:41:14pm

I'm a little peeved by this topic. It is a lie. Obama did not bow to the Saudis. He did not. Bush bowed to them, but Obama did not.

Obama curtsied. A bow is from the waist. When you do that little 'knee-bendy' thing while doing it, it is a curtsy.

19 Opinionated  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:41:37pm

Is bending over to get an award placed around your neck a bow? I think not.

In any event I wouldn't use a Bush as an example for how an American President should conduct himself in the presence of Saudis.

20 daledog  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:42:00pm

Impeach gas tanks?

21 Bagua  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:42:06pm

Bush was bowing to receive some sort of medal he was being presented with, a bit different from bowing in reverent greeting, nevertheless, he then kisses the evil monarch on both cheeks, and he willfully allowed himself to be photographed with his head bowed in front of the obese tyrant.

22 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:42:45pm

re: #15 brookly red

Is it a considered a bow? What was placed around his neck, & do I want to know? Eww


good point ... it might have been Dub receiving an award or something and not "technically" a bow. He prefered hand holding, didn't he?

23 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:42:46pm

re: #19 Opinionated

Is bending over to get an award placed around your neck a bow? I think not.

Perhaps. But if I were making the rules, Bush would have been impeached merely for standing in the same room with that maggot.

24 zombie  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:43:00pm

If you ever doubted that it's all about money, our deference to these primitive tribal warriors should open your eyes.

Do American presidents bow to the chief of the Yanomamo tribe in Brazil? No. And why not? Because they don't have any money.

Rich people can get away with anything, especially on the international stage.

25 modnar  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:43:18pm

Is this really comparable to Obama? Obama just straight-up bowed. In this video Bush is receiving some kind of medallion necklace. It's quite common for people bow so the person awarding the honor can get it over their head and around the neck. Unless the person awarding the gift is Yao Ming or something.

26 freedombilly  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:43:24pm

There are enough real issues to attack The Messiah with. Why must some on "our side" make stuff up? It just doesn't make any sense.

27 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:43:35pm

Oh please. "Technically" not a bow? This is silly.

America has been bowing to these throwbacks for decades.

28 zombie  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:43:37pm

re: #11 Racer X

I'm loving the Global Warming hysteria.

Unintended consequence - Fuck the Saudis.

I like the way you think. 'Cause I think the same way.

29 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:43:40pm
30 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:43:54pm

If your family was receiving many millions you would bow too.

31 monkey den  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:44:19pm

I know nothing about Obama bowing but was Bush really bowing? He appeared to bend over to accept a medal of some sort.

32 freetoken  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:44:23pm

re: #4 yochanan

we have been kissing saudi touckas for years.

Since FDR.

33 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:44:27pm

re: #27 Charles

Oh please. "Technically" not a bow? This is silly.

America has been bowing to these throwbacks for decades.

On top of that later in video you can see him doing the neck only bow to two different Saudi's.

34 jcm  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:44:38pm

Impeach your gas tank.

Tesla S

Not from Detroit, not mandated by Congress.

Invented the American way!

35 Opinionated  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:44:55pm

re: #27 Charles

Oh please. "Technically" not a bow? This is silly.

America has been bowing to these throwbacks for decades.

Also kissing their ass. Still it would shock me to see it in public.

36 jimmyk  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:44:56pm

That was not a bow. He leaned over so the Saudi could put the medal around his neck.

Yes, Bush was too nice to the Saudis. But a bow like Obama's is not the same thing. A bow has a very specific meaning: It says "I am your subject." "You are my sovereign." That's in an entirely different league from what Bush did, which is just have friendly relations. It's like the difference between a handshake and sex.

37 VegasRick  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:45:00pm

re: #30 Spare O'Lake

If your family was receiving many millions you would bow too.

I bow to Jesus and God, that is all I will ever bow to.

38 jordash1212  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:45:09pm

New technology companies need money to create greener technologies that people can equate to their beloved automobiles as well as things that they didn't know they want (i.e. Apple). Hopefully the debt Obama is deepening will be reversible.

39 Racer X  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:45:21pm

re: #27 Charles

Oh please. "Technically" not a bow? This is silly.

America has been bowing to these throwbacks for decades.

Sorry Charles - I'm not seeing a "bow" in this video.

40 monkey den  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:45:34pm

re: #27 Charles

Oh please. "Technically" not a bow? This is silly.

America has been bowing to these throwbacks for decades.

I don't know about literally, but certainly figuratively.

41 gatewaypundit  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:45:47pm

Charles- It looks like Bush was bowing to receive an award.

42 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:45:48pm

whatever that thing was, it had some serious "bling" on it ...

43 Bagua  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:46:34pm

Bow, curtsy or bowing to receive a medal, its all just tripe, Bush had a long history of kow towing to the Saudi rulers, as did prior presidents, Obama has just made one polite greeting.

Attacking Bambi on this issue is a distraction.

44 monkey den  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:46:58pm

re: #42 _RememberTonyC

whatever that thing was, it had some serious "bling" on it ...

it's called "hush money", or "hush bling" as it were.

45 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:47:03pm

Cool. So go ahead and keep refusing to face reality, folks. It was so different, what Obama did. He's evil, and Bush was just "accepting an award."

If that makes you feel better, knock yourselves out.

46 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:47:32pm

re: #27 Charles

Oh please. "Technically" not a bow? This is silly.

America has been bowing to these throwbacks for decades.

It's my party and I'll bow if I want to,
Bow if I want to,
Bow if I want to,
You would bow too if it happened to you,
Ba ba ba ba ba!

47 zombie  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:47:39pm

re: #29 Iron Fist

Shit, we're going to get called "expansionist" and "colonizers" and such no matter what we do. Take the oil fields, and leave the rest of the desert to those who enjoy living there.

The Left loves to say, sarcastically, "What's our oil doing under their sand?"

To which I reply,

"What's our technology doing in their pre-medieval sheikdom?"

With US and British exploration, development and technology, the House of Saud would still be living in tattered tents and stealing each other's camels.

48 jcm  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:47:55pm

Saudi Oil Reserves -- 260,000,000,000 barrels.
US Reserves,
offshore, sand
and shale. -- 3,000,000,000,000

That's almost 12x Saudi.
Our cousins north of the border?
Another -- 5,000,000,000,000

49 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:48:08pm

re: #34 jcm

Impeach your gas tank.

Tesla S

Not from Detroit, not mandated by Congress.

Invented the American way!

That whole company does seem to be kind of heavy on the hype, and light on the production. But I admit I've been checking out that new model S lately.

Here's something else I might direct everyone's attention to at this juncture:

Set America Free

The Set America Free coalition brings together prominent individuals and non-profit organizations from across the political spectrum. Concerned about the security and economic implications of America's growing dependence on foreign oil, members include security experts, environmental leaders, former prisoners of war, 9-11 families, business and religious leaders. While each member's individual ideology may differ—one thing unites us: the belief that fuel choice in the transportation sector can strip oil of its strategic value, deny our adversaries the wherewithal they use to harm us, and help protect our quality of life and economy against the effects of cuts in foreign energy supplies and rising costs of oil.

The only way we can ensure our national safety and our economic security is to break the monopoly of oil in the transportation sector. Our entire way of life depends on it.

50 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:48:25pm

re: #27 Charles

Oh please. "Technically" not a bow? This is silly.

America has been bowing to these throwbacks for decades.


I'm in agreement with you there, but #25 is also valid. Bush kow towed to the Saudis often, but this video shows someone bending to get a medalion placed over his head, not a bow of reverence

51 modnar  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:48:27pm

re: #27 Charles

I agree on the bowing to Saudi for decades. I certainly wish we wouldn't deal with them at all and tell them to go pound sand.

But it just seems a little disingenuous to call this single instance of Bush a bow for receiving (what appears to be) some kind of award or somesuch. Unless there's another video of photo of him doing so.

52 zombie  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:48:35pm

With US and British exploration, development and technology, the House of Saud would still be living in tattered tents and stealing each other's camels.

=

WithOUT US and British exploration, development and technology, the House of Saud would still be living in tattered tents and stealing each other's camels.

Big PIMF. Sorry!

53 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:49:35pm

re: #47 zombie

With[out] US and British exploration, development and technology, the House of Saud would still be living in tattered tents and stealing each other's camels.

And may they be doing so again, as soon as possible.

54 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:49:44pm

re: #41 gatewaypundit

Charles- It looks like Bush was bowing to receive an award.

I absolutely agree.
What Obama did appeared to be a true bow and does not compare.

/except in policy

55 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:50:12pm

re: #45 Charles

Cool. So go ahead and keep refusing to face reality, folks. It was so different, what Obama did. He's evil, and Bush was just "accepting an award."

If that makes you feel better, knock yourselves out.

So they're both obsequious assholes, symbolizing the dhimmification of America.
There, is that better?

56 Racer X  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:50:13pm

The bowing doesn't bother me near as much as the blatant "bending over and taking it in the ass" that America has been doing for decades.

57 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:50:21pm
58 Opinionated  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:50:33pm

re: #45 Charles

Cool. So go ahead and keep refusing to face reality, folks. It was so different, what Obama did. He's evil, and Bush was just "accepting an award."

If that makes you feel better, knock yourselves out.

It has nothing to do with evil.

It evidences a mindset. Yes, a mindset Bush also demonstrated but in a manner - which seemed bad at the time- but today seems less repulsive then Obama's clear bow.

59 monkey den  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:51:14pm

Bush's was so subtle. Look at Obama's

Obama Bows to Saudi King

I guess I'm a regular dude and don't know the first thing about curtsy/bowing. Certainly Obama's was more exaggerated, whatever it was. Either way, American officials need to stop kissing the ring.

60 Opinionated  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:51:15pm

re: #56 Racer X

The bowing doesn't bother me near as much as the blatant "bending over and taking it in the ass" that America has been doing for decades.

The bow is foreplay.

61 jcm  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:51:19pm

re: #49 Last Mohican

That whole company does seem to be kind of heavy on the hype, and light on the production. But I admit I've been checking out that new model S lately.


True, I think the Roadster is in production, or very close. All they need is enough orders placed to make investors jump in also.

62 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:51:21pm

Personally, I find it as disgusting, if not more so, that Bush accepted an award from these people. He bowed to accept an award from the most repressive theocracy on the planet.

Oh, I forgot. Obama is evil.

63 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:51:49pm

Great post, Charles.

I support this litmus test for anyone who wishes to be our next president:
"Would you ever bow to another nation's leader?"
If yes, then GTFO.

64 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:52:02pm

re: #45 Charles

Cool. So go ahead and keep refusing to face reality, folks. It was so different, what Obama did. He's evil, and Bush was just "accepting an award."

If that makes you feel better, knock yourselves out.

It's not a big deal to me, to be honest with you. Every President sucks up to the saudis. I'm one of the people on this board who has been very fair to Obama, even though I didn't vote for him.

65 Racer X  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:52:16pm

re: #59 monkey den

Bush's was so subtle. Look at Obama's

Obama Bows to Saudi King

I guess I'm a regular dude and don't know the first thing about curtsy/bowing. Certainly Obama's was more exaggerated, whatever it was. Either way, American officials need to stop kissing the ring.

OK - THAT was a fucking bow.

66 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:52:29pm

re: #62 Charles

Personally, I find it as disgusting if not more that Bush accepted an award from these people. He bowed to accept an award from the most repressive theocracy on the planet.

Oh, I forgot. Obama is evil.

At least he didn't curtsy.

67 Bagua  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:52:49pm

re: #41 gatewaypundit

Charles- It looks like Bush was bowing to receive an award.

Its disgusting that Bush as POTUS would bow his head to this tyrant to receive an award. However it is a small insult compared with his overt support for the Saudi dictatorship.

Attacking Obama on this point is no different from alleging that he's a muslim, kenyan, and so on... i

68 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:52:55pm
69 Killian Bundy  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:52:57pm

Mecca mosques 'wrongly aligned'

Some 200 mosques in Islam's holiest city, Mecca, point the wrong way for prayers, reports from Saudi Arabia say.

All mosques have a niche showing the direction of the most sacred Islamic site, the Kaaba, an ancient cube-like building in Mecca's Grand Mosque.

But people looking down from recently built high-rises in Mecca found the niches in many older mosques were not pointing directly towards the Kaaba.

Some worshippers are said to be anxious about the validity of their prayers.

/all those years of praying in the wrong direction, they're doomed!

70 monkey den  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:53:43pm

re: #65 Racer X

OK - THAT was a fucking bow.

That's rich in humor, er, "humour"

71 vxbush  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:53:57pm

re: #62 Charles

Personally, I find it as disgusting if not more that Bush accepted an award from these people. He bowed to accept an award from the most repressive theocracy on the planet.

Oh, I forgot. Obama is evil.

I always was upset with the Bush family and their acceptance of the Saudi royal family, but it seems every president has been extremely deferential to them. I often wonder what the Sauds have to cause us to be so deferential. Is it really just the oil? I wonder sometimes.

72 Gella  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:53:59pm

re: #62 Charles

Personally, I find it as disgusting if not more that Bush accepted an award from these people. He bowed to accept an award from the most repressive theocracy on the planet.

Oh, I forgot. Obama is evil.

its a family business for Bush, so he an accepting an award from another part of the family, and as we know we are we are and judged by family, therefore its wrong

P.S. Obama is evil

73 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:54:30pm

Imagine the screaming if Obama had let Abdullah hang a medal around his neck.

74 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:54:38pm
75 jcm  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:54:42pm

re: #69 Killian Bundy

Mecca mosques 'wrongly aligned'

/all those years of praying in the wrong direction, they're doomed!

Thank G-d there is only one UP!
;-)

76 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:54:44pm

re: #69 Killian Bundy

Simple solution: tear down the high-rises and forget it ever happened.

77 freetoken  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:55:08pm

Some of you are failing to appreciate the poetic metaphor that Charles is using.

Being the recipient of praise (in this case which happens to include a token such as a medal) as re-payment for services rendered, is a form of "bowing".

Too many people are concerned only with the anatomical definition of "bow" (that is, to bend the spine), but "bow" also means "submit to pressure or to someone's demands", which GWB and all previous Presidents performed.

78 Bloodnok  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:55:13pm

Can you imagine if 0bama had received an award from SA last week? There would have been howling for the past few days.

79 Gella  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:55:36pm

re: #73 Charles

Imagine the screaming if Obama had let Abdullah hang a medal around his neck.

there wouldn't be any screaming, MSM adores him, what ever he does is saint

80 HelloDare  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:55:48pm

NYT scolded Clinton for almost bowing to royalty

81 MSMaj  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:55:54pm

Okay... so where was the bow? I saw President Bush lower his head to have a medal placed on around his neck which is very different from a supplicating bow of greeting.

82 wong fei hung  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:56:18pm

Bush and Obama's actions were both completely deferential and EQUALLY disgusting. But hey, they were merely kissing their bosses ass. Nobody should be surprised at these lapdogs.

-WFH

83 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:56:35pm

Intellectual dishonesty is unbecoming. I am disgusted any American President would bow to a Saud, but it's not an impeachable offense. Anyone who suggests otherwise needs to read up on the history of impeachment, including the British use, which is where the Constitutional use derived.

84 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:56:38pm

Last week Hilary accepted an award named in honor of a eugenicist.

Speaking of alignment problems, this nation's got it's share.

85 Killian Bundy  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:57:02pm

Obama addresses the Turkish Parliament tomorrow.

/this ought to be priceless, considering he's already bad mouthed the U.S. in front of an audience of European kids

86 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:57:04pm

re: #73 Charles

Imagine the screaming if Obama had let Abdullah hang a medal around his neck.

I suspect we'll soon find out ...

87 wong fei hung  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:57:43pm

Screw the bow. He kissed the guy.

Same shit, different asshole.

-WFH

88 Gella  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:57:59pm

re: #87 wong fei hung

Screw the bow. He kissed the guy.

Same shit, different asshole.

-WFH

the front or the back?

89 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:58:00pm

Can't wait for the 0bama sword dance.

90 zombie  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:58:24pm

Look, all of this is symbolic.

Everyone knows that the US government in general absolutely kowtows to the to Saudis at every turn. It matters not who is president. All the way back to Truman they've been acting this way.

Bow, curtsy, medal, award -- meaningless body gestures.

What matters -- the only thing that matters -- is whether or not we stand up to them.

None has done it yet. And it's quite apparent Obama won't either. He's quickly joined a long line of appeasers.

91 avanti  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:58:40pm

re: #58 Opinionated

It has nothing to do with evil.

It evidences a mindset. Yes, a mindset Bush also demonstrated but in a manner - which seemed bad at the time- but today seems less repulsive then Obama's clear bow.

It is a mindset. Earlier we were discussing BHO's desire for a nuke free world and it was taken as a example of stupidity, yet the desire was the same as espoused by Reagan 30 years ago. Bush's bow/kiss and Obama's bow might be perceived differently depending on how you feel about them.

92 Racer X  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:58:51pm

Bush set in motion actions that kept America safe and prosperous for many years.

Obama has undone just about all of them in the past 3 months.

I could care less about a bow.

93 jcm  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:58:52pm

re: #81 MSMaj

Okay... so where was the bow? I saw President Bush lower his head to have a medal placed on around his neck which is very different from a supplicating bow of greeting.

Why does any President accept anything from this regime?
These people let school girls burn rather than have them appear with out the tent in public.

The awards and bows are symbolic that we are beholden to the oil ticks while they flog 72 year women for having delivered by a couple of men.

94 Archimedes  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:59:22pm

Maybe this all started with Nixon meet with the Chicoms.

95 Racer X  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:59:24pm

re: #87 wong fei hung

Screw the bow. He kissed the guy.

Same shit, different asshole.

-WFH

Air kiss.

Doesn't count.

96 jcm  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:59:35pm

re: #93 jcm

Why does any President accept anything from this regime?
These people let school girls burn rather than have them appear with out the tent in public.

The awards and bows are symbolic that we are beholden to the oil ticks while they flog 72 year women for having delivered by a couple of men.

having lunch delivered....
PIMF

97 HelloDare  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:59:47pm

re: #81 MSMaj

Okay... so where was the bow? I saw President Bush lower his head to have a medal placed on around his neck which is very different from a supplicating bow of greeting.

Yes. And they "kiss" on both cheeks afterward. That's hardly supplication.

98 snowcrash  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:59:48pm

Its all about the petrodollars.

99 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:59:54pm

Denial: not just a river in Saudi Arabia.

I mean, Egypt.

100 Salem  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 5:59:55pm

Um, yeah, whatever.

101 jcm  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:00:03pm

re: #95 Racer X

Air kiss.

Doesn't count.

*smooch*

*runs like hell*

;-P

102 carmella  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:00:29pm

Bowing to rec. a medal is not the same. Just wanted to weigh in. Drill ANWR now.

103 RighTexan  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:01:08pm

Charles,

I expected better of you. There is no comparison with W bowing to allow a medal to be put around his neck & the won bowing in subservience.

104 DEZes  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:01:12pm

Queen of denial, take a bow.

105 Archimedes  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:01:19pm

re: #94 Archimedes

Maybe this all started with Nixon meet with the Chicoms.

That should be:

meet = meeting

106 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:01:29pm

It's a horse.
It's a mule!
A horse!
A mule!
Horse!
Mule!
*neigh*
*bray*

107 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:01:38pm

Ye verily, four legs are good, two legs are bad.

Ideologues from either side of the aisle will make excuses for their guy/gal while excoriating their opposition. Hypocrisy knows no party lines.

108 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:01:39pm

to quote an earlier thread, we fought a war so we wouldn't have to prostrate ourselves in front of a monarch

109 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:01:40pm

I'm just stunned anyone would think 0bama bowing to a foreign king was an impeachable offense. That's really ignorant.

110 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:01:58pm

re: #93 jcm

Why does any President accept anything from this regime?
These people let school girls burn rather than have them appear with out the tent in public.

The awards and bows are symbolic that we are beholden to the oil ticks while they flog 72 year women for having delivered by a couple of men.

Because of 1.48 MILLION barrels of oil PER DAY imported from them

[Link: www.ask.com...]

111 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:01:58pm

re: #7 screaming_eagle

Drill ANWAR now. Screw the Saudis.

Drill the Saudis now.

Three guesses just why, the Saudis would present Bush with a medal?

/hint: so he would bow to receive it

Bush's relations with our-friends-the-saudis was never my favorite feature of his, so I don't see it raising my opinion of 0bambi. If anything, it proves how little ever really changes.

112 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:02:01pm

re: #103 RighTexan

Charles,

I expected better of you. There is no comparison with W bowing to allow a medal to be put around his neck & the won bowing in subservience.

I'll just have to live with your disappointment.

113 Geepers  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:02:02pm

Obama liked to give Hillary and others the finger.

Apparently it's all explained in the palm of his hand:

Obama’s Palm

Yesterday after the Obama’s meeting in London with other politicians, Russian bloggers has concluded that newly elected American president has a Russian curse word on his right palm.

If erase some lines it will be “хуй”.
“Хуй” means dick but the word is obscene.

Obviously Obama is a soviet plant.

114 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:02:02pm

noble
2.a. Having or showing qualities of high moral character, such as courage, generosity, or honor: a noble spirit.
....b. Proceeding from or indicative of such a character; showing magnanimity: "What poor an instrument/May do a noble deed!" Shakespeare.

[..c. What G.W. Bush called the R.O.P. in a public address.]

115 avanti  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:02:06pm

re: #73 Charles

Imagine the screaming if Obama had let Abdullah hang a medal around his neck.

Now that is a excellent point, but it's early in BHO administration, we may yet see it.

116 _RememberTonyC  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:02:09pm

re: #99 Charles

Denial: not just a river in Saudi Arabia.

I mean, Egypt.

speaking of egypt , if obama bows to mubarak ...

117 Gella  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:02:12pm

re: #103 RighTexan

Charles,

I expected better of you. There is no comparison with W bowing to allow a medal to be put around his neck & the won bowing in subservience.

it all depends who gives u that metal, u know u can always say no to the metal

118 Archimedes  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:02:21pm

Good one, Charles. I think what is necessary is perspective! The big issues are what matter here. Don't ignore the details, but don't lose site of the big picture!

119 little boomer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:02:25pm

We just got a wood pellet stove. American stove burning American trees.
We're silly with trees, make the Arabs work for a living!

120 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:02:40pm

re: #92 Racer X

COULDN'T, you mean.

(grr.)

121 Bagua  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:02:45pm

re: #92 Racer X

Bush set in motion actions that kept America safe and prosperous for many years.

Obama has undone just about all of them in the past 3 months.

I could care less about a bow.

Bush utterly failed to stand up to the Saudis in any way, he is also out of power so that is his permanent legacy, as is Iran and Syria closer to nuclear power.

Obama by contrast has just started, while we may fear or suspect what he will do, he still has 4 years to act.

122 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:03:05pm

re: #103 RighTexan

Charles,

I expected better of you. There is no comparison with W bowing to allow a medal to be put around his neck & the won bowing in subservience.

That's it Tex. Come out swingin'

123 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:03:09pm

re: #90 zombie

Look, all of this is symbolic.

Everyone knows that the US government in general absolutely kowtows to the to Saudis at every turn. It matters not who is president. All the way back to Truman they've been acting this way.

Bow, curtsy, medal, award -- meaningless body gestures.

What matters -- the only thing that matters -- is whether or not we stand up to them.

None has done it yet. And it's quite apparent Obama won't either. He's quickly joined a long line of appeasers.

You said it, Z.

124 Racer X  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:03:22pm

re: #109 Sharmuta

I'm just stunned anyone would think 0bama bowing to a foreign king was an impeachable offense. That's really ignorant.

I must not have been paying attention. Were posters here saying Obama should be impeached for bowing?

125 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:03:28pm

re: #68 Iron Fist

Don't forget their desalinization plants that produce the water they have to have to support their population. It's not like Mohammad gifted them with that bit of high-tech when he set up their pet rock as an idol to their patron devil.

I would hazard to bet their desalinization plants were of either Norwegian or German design.

126 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:03:28pm

re: #89 Sharmuta

Why can’t I just eat my falafel?

127 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:03:33pm
128 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:03:34pm

Who gives a shit that Obama or Bush bowed. Guess what? They are not like any of you early risers that go to work to pay bills to feed your children to live a good life...ok I'll stop.

129 David Simon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:03:40pm

Sometimes, the choice isn't between good and bad; it's between bad and worse. Like it or not, KSA (like Pakistan, Egypt et al) is a nominal ally in the WOT. If we overthrow the royal family...what happens?

130 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:03:58pm

re: #109 Sharmuta

I'm just stunned anyone would think 0bama bowing to a foreign king was an impeachable offense. That's really ignorant.

Anything is an impeachable offense, because impeachment is a political act, not a statutory one.

But in general I agree, this - by itself - does not rise (er, fall) to that level. Just one more checkmark on 0bambi's permanent record.

131 wong fei hung  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:04:15pm

I understand that what's freaky about Obama's bow is that he did it out of nowhere. He sees the guy and he just bows. Point taken.

But taking that medal and kissing that rat bastard is equally repulsive.

We should have NOTHING to do with that country.

But hey, parse away...

-WFH

132 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:04:20pm
133 avanti  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:04:26pm

re: #87 wong fei hung

Screw the bow. He kissed the guy.

Same shit, different asshole.

-WFH

GW may have made some mistakes, but a asshole he was not, nor is BHO IMHO.

134 anchors_aweigh  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:04:30pm

re: #73 Charles

Every member of the US Armed Forces, who was in theater during Desert Shield/Storm, received a medal from the Saudis.

And yes, it's the most blingy of all the medals I received during my military career.

Not that I'm bragging or anything.

135 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:04:41pm

A million updings. Very few on the right have the bravery to be honest these days.

136 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:04:48pm

re: #124 Racer X

I must not have been paying attention. Were posters here saying Obama should be impeached for bowing?

Yes.

137 formercorpsman  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:04:55pm

I made some comments about this just recently.

More or less, my argument was that it would not surprise me to hear of, or see footage of similar actions with past presidents of either party.

All in all, my impression of the ass kissing has lateral correlation to the issues related to the cold war.

I think quite a few monarchies were deathly afraid of what they saw in a revolutionary Iran. At the end of world war 2, there were tensions, and factions aligned politically with either the western nations, or the soviets.

Mosaddeq was shown to certainly have open sympathies with communism.

Despite the hate factor of anything not Wahhab, they knew their ass was in a sling if total war enveloped the middle east.

A marriage of convenience was made.

All in all, Charles is correct. The only way to truly not make yourself a slave to these animals, is to free yourself from the power they hold over you. Make no mistake, they hold it over us in the number of barrels they decide to pump put every day.

What I can say, is do not read into my words as being some granola type, I am far from it. I have 2 SUV's. I am of the ilk of building a better mousetrap, not boxing myself into a Prius. As well, we need to decrease our need for their oil. What I can't figure out, is what is driving both sides from realizing our real vulnerability under these circumstances.

Am I surprised by this video?

No.

138 jcm  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:04:57pm

re: #110 sattv4u2

Because of 1.48 MILLION barrels of oil PER DAY imported from them

[Link: www.ask.com...]

Nuclear.
Clean Coal.
Offshore.
ANWR.
Natural Gas.
Oil sand and shale.

We have enough. We don't need Saudi.

We just need the WILL to develop our own.

139 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:05:01pm

re: #132 Iron Fist

Maybe it is because I've spent most of my life in a sub-culture where bowing to one another is simply common courtesy (the Martial Arts subculture. It isn't exactly the same as Japanese culture, but it borrows heavily from it), but I don't see either one as a problem. Context is important, of course, but this is hardly the worst thing either one has done.

Compare and contrast the way that terrorists at Gitmo were treated and will be treated from both Administrations. That is a more important basis for judging their performance and their intentions.


That being said, apparently no one else in the room bowed.

140 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:05:13pm

re: #124 Racer X

I must not have been paying attention. Were posters here saying Obama should be impeached for bowing?

I don't know about here, but I'll take Charles at his word when he said above that some on the right are saying 0bama should be impeached for this. A bow is hardly a "high crime or misdemeanor".

141 Gella  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:05:33pm

just wondering, is Zero trying to copy Lenin?

142 DEZes  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:05:39pm

re: #113 Geepers

Obama liked to give Hillary and others the finger.

Apparently it's all explained in the palm of his hand:

Obama’s Palm

Obviously Obama is a soviet plant weed.


FTFY

143 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:05:56pm

re: #127 buzzsawmonkey

Can we try him for war crimes?
///

144 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:06:24pm

re: #139 Hengineer

That being said, apparently no one else in the room bowed.

That, perhaps, is the most interesting aspect of this.

145 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:06:26pm

re: #132 Iron Fist

Maybe it is because I've spent most of my life in a sub-culture where bowing to one another is simply common courtesy (the Martial Arts subculture. It isn't exactly the same as Japanese culture, but it borrows heavily from it), but I don't see either one as a problem. Context is important, of course, but this is hardly the worst thing either one has done.

Compare and contrast the way that terrorists at Gitmo were treated and will be treated from both Administrations. That is a more important basis for judging their performance and their intentions.

You've done it again. Well said. BTW. Benelli Nova pump or Mossberg 590?

146 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:06:31pm

re: #143 Slumbering Behemoth

Can we try him for war crimes?
///

He sent poor misguided drones into pakistan to fight his war!

No machinery for oil!

147 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:07:28pm

re: #138 jcm

Nuclear.
Clean Coal.
Offshore.
ANWR.Natural Gas.
Oil sand and shale.

We have enough. We don't need Saudi.

We just need the WILL to develop our own.


Agreed, but all highlighted are beintg held hostage by the Enviro- NIMBY coalition

148 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:07:29pm

re: #132 Iron Fist

Maybe it is because I've spent most of my life in a sub-culture where bowing to one another is simply common courtesy (the Martial Arts subculture. It isn't exactly the same as Japanese culture, but it borrows heavily from it), but I don't see either one as a problem. Context is important, of course, but this is hardly the worst thing either one has done.

In fencing, we salute the judges and the opponent - with a sword. I wouldn't mind seeing Obama do that!

149 Geepers  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:07:42pm

DEZes (#142),

Obviously Obama is a soviet plant weed.

FTFY

Yes, I like that. Far more fitting.

150 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:07:55pm
151 Racer X  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:08:01pm

re: #121 Bagua

Bush utterly failed to stand up to the Saudis in any way, he is also out of power so that is his permanent legacy, as is Iran and Syria closer to nuclear power.

Obama by contrast has just started, while we may fear or suspect what he will do, he still has 4 years to act.

So $4 a gallon gas was not high enough?

Imagine what it would be if we were to piss off the Saudis now. The left will not let us drill. They won't let us build nuclear plants. They will not let us build a nuclear waste storage facility in Nevada. And the Saudis know it.

152 DEZes  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:08:38pm

re: #149 Geepers

;)
Howdy.

153 jwb7605  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:08:39pm

re: #138 jcm

Nuclear.
Clean Coal.
Offshore.
ANWR.
Natural Gas.
Oil sand and shale.

We have enough. We don't need Saudi.

We just need the WILL to develop our own.

I struck out the currently unavailable options.
Nuclear is iffy, and only under consideration if it's "safe".
We're working on battery and solar panel technology, remember?

154 brookly red  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:08:40pm

re: #146 Hengineer

He sent poor misguided drones into pakistan to fight his war!

No machinery for oil!

I think the drones were guided pretty well, jus sayin.

155 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:08:42pm

re: #132 Iron Fist

I think we should save our outrage for actions that merit it more than this action does. Do I like kissing saudi ass? Of course not, but it's not changing any time soon. Releasing Gitmo detainees and allowing them to live on American soil? Now THAT'S worthy of real outrage.

156 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:08:58pm

re: #150 Iron Fist

Probably. Or Israeli. IIRC the Israelis have done a lot with desalinization. One thing is certain, they aren't home-grown in the sand kingdom.

I haven't dealt with plants of that magnitude, just the ones onboard the ship's I've sailed on. The two manufacturers of distillers I've dealt with are either Alfa-Laval or Aqua-Chem.

157 Kalixiri  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:09:01pm

Here this might help. This is the news article that accompanied the pic.
[Link: www.foxnews.com...]

Bush was receiving the King Abdul Aziz Order of Merit and was bending his head down so that the medal could go over his head. Here is the description of the medal: "For meritorious service while in government office, for extraordinary deeds of bravery, and for other deeds of service to the state."
[Link: www.medals.org.uk...]

One can argue that this is no less an insult to the U.S. than is bowing to the Saudi King, but it is disingenuous to present the picture as Bush "bowing" before the King.

158 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:09:17pm

re: #154 brookly red

I think the drones were guided pretty well, jus sayin.

In a few years, maybe we'll be able to send a drone to bow to the Saudis.

159 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:09:35pm

re: #154 brookly red

I think the drones were guided pretty well, jus sayin.

I know that but they were conned into joining the military to fight for President Obama's war machine!

/s

160 The Other Les  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:09:37pm

re: #18 razorbacker

I'm a little peeved by this topic. It is a lie. Obama did not bow to the Saudis. He did not. Bush bowed to them, but Obama did not.

Obama curtsied. A bow is from the waist. When you do that little 'knee-bendy' thing while doing it, it is a curtsy.

Ladies curtsy. Gentlemen bow.

161 captdiggs  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:09:39pm

re: #19 Opinionated

I'm glad someone else noted that Bush did NOT bow in greeting the saudi king.

162 DEZes  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:10:15pm

re: #145 NYCHardhat

There you are.
G-Day mate. ;)

163 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:10:19pm

re: #138 jcm

Nuclear.
Clean Coal.
Offshore.
ANWR.
Natural Gas.
Oil sand and shale.

We have enough. We don't need Saudi.

We just need the WILL to develop our own.

You do need to add domestic oil to the list. We already produce plenty of oil ourselves that we don't import.

Just sayin'

164 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:10:28pm

re: #160 The Other Les

Ladies curtsy. Gentlemen bow.

Cowboys shake hands, or just spit.

165 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:10:38pm

re: #158 itellu3times

The future is now. What, you mean Obama is not a drone?
///

166 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:10:42pm

re: #161 captdiggs

I'm glad someone else noted that Bush did NOT bow in greeting the saudi king.

No, just made some stupid sword dance thing

167 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:10:54pm

re: #164 itellu3times

Cowboys shake hands, or just spit.

draw

168 Bob Dillon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:11:04pm

re: #71 vxbush

I always was upset with the Bush family and their acceptance of the Saudi royal family, but it seems every president has been extremely deferential to them. I often wonder what the Sauds have to cause us to be so deferential. Is it really just the oil? I wonder sometimes.

They purchase lots of our best hi tech military hardware.

169 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:11:07pm

If it's all about the oil, then how come y'all don't bow down to Canadian leaders?
/

170 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:11:08pm

Here come the sleepers with their first comments. Amazing how this happens with any post that deviates from the talking points.

171 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:11:08pm

re: #162 DEZes

There you are.
G-Day mate. ;)

What up dude?

Youtube Video
172 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:11:13pm

re: #163 Hengineer

Also coal gasification for aviation fuel if not gasoline.

173 brookly red  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:11:35pm

re: #159 Hengineer

I know that but they were conned into joining the military to fight for President Obama's war machine!

/s

waaaait... they ARE war machines.

174 jwb7605  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:11:46pm

re: #170 Charles

Here come the sleepers with their first comments. Amazing how this happens with any post that deviates from the talking points.

?

175 Jimash  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:11:53pm

Yeah Ok. What was that thing he was putting on George tho' ?

176 Racer X  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:12:02pm

re: #136 Charles

Yes.

I have never heard of that poster. He has 8 posts under his belt. I would wager most Lizards are smarter than that. Now, I have seen similar ridiculous comments on other blogs, but not so much here.

177 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:12:04pm

re: #39 Racer X

Sorry Charles - I'm not seeing a "bow" in this video.

I didn't see a physical "bow" in this video, either, not at all similar to Obama's bow.

But there is no doubt that all parties (Rs and Ds) have "bowed" to the Saudis in some way.

Zombie is right - this is about money, and I'll even join those who want to scream "It's about OIL" on this one.

178 DEZes  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:12:32pm

re: #171 NYCHardhat

Monday cometh. :(

179 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:12:34pm

OT:
[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

180 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:12:39pm

The point Charles made is that we all bow to the Saudis every time we put fuel into our gas tanks.

181 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:12:39pm

re: #157 Kalixiri

Did you watch the video? Did Obama kiss him too?

182 jaunte  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:12:40pm

If some Americans don't want our Presidents to be put in subservient positions vis-a-vis the Saudis, they might have to accept some offshore drilling on the east and west coasts.

183 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:12:40pm

re: #165 Slumbering Behemoth

... saw that coming half a mile down the road ... but it's still good.

184 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:13:11pm
185 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:13:14pm

re: #182 jaunte

If some Americans don't want our Presidents to be put in subservient positions vis-a-vis the Saudis, they might have to accept some offshore drilling on the east and west coasts.

Well tell that to the NIMBY's with their self-defeating positions.

186 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:13:15pm

re: #157 Kalixiri

Bush was receiving the King Abdul Aziz Order of Merit...

And what would your reaction be if Barack Obama bowed his head to receive the King Abdul Aziz Order of Merit?

187 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:13:42pm

re: #180 Hengineer

The point Charles made is that we all bow to the Saudis every time we put fuel into our gas tanks.

And every time I eat beans, I dedicate it to them.

188 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:13:47pm

re: #180 Hengineer

The point Charles made is that we all bow to the Saudis every time we put fuel into our gas tanks.

Not me, I buy mine from Hugo.

189 jaunte  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:14:05pm

re: #185 Hengineer

They're waiting for the magic invention that will save them.
Why won't those mean scientists oblige?

190 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:14:06pm

re: #178 DEZes

Monday cometh. :(

Yeah, I'm not looking forward to that. But hey, it could be worse.

191 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:14:09pm
192 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:14:10pm

re: #183 itellu3times

Saw it coming? I thought you specifically set that up.

193 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:14:12pm

re: #188 unrealizedviewpoint

Not me, I buy mine from Hugo.

Cute, you buy gas at Citgo?

194 Geepers  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:14:43pm

Bagua (#121),

Obama by contrast has just started, while we may fear or suspect what he will do, he still has 4 years to act.

By what he will do?

I'm already pretty unenamored to him for what he's already done.

195 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:14:43pm

re: #186 Charles

And what would your reaction be if Barack Obama bowed his head to receive the King Abdul Aziz Order of Merit?

I wouldn't give a shit. The man is still fucking the country to the ground.

196 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:14:57pm

re: #189 jaunte

They're waiting for the magic invention that will save them.
Why won't those mean scientists oblige?

They're too busy getting money for their man-made global warming agenda?

197 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:15:01pm

re: #186 Charles

And what would your reaction be if Barack Obama bowed his head to receive the King Abdul Aziz Order of Merit?

I just don't like this bowing in front of guys wearing bathrobes, y'know?

198 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:15:30pm

re: #192 Slumbering Behemoth

Yeah, I guess. :)

199 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:15:34pm

re: #193 Hengineer

Cute, you buy gas at Citgo?

I don't use oil. I ride the bus.

200 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:15:44pm

re: #197 itellu3times

I just don't like this bowing in front of guys wearing baathrobes, y'know?

fixed

201 DEZes  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:15:50pm

re: #190 NYCHardhat

Yeah, I'm not looking forward to that. But hey, it could be worse.

I'm still making prototypes for the military, gotta keep on it for our troops!

202 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:15:58pm

re: #199 unrealizedviewpoint

LOL!

203 Racer X  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:16:01pm

You wanna really tell the Saudis to fuck off?

Build nuke plants. Drill in ANWAR. Drill off the coasts. Become more energy efficient. Build all-electric cars - not just hybrids.

The Saudi regime would collapse if oil went below $20 a barrel and stayed there.

204 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:16:02pm

Electric version. Gives me the chills.

Youtube Video
205 freetoken  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:16:08pm

re: #163 Hengineer

You do need to add domestic oil to the list. We already produce plenty of oil ourselves that we don't import.

Averaged 5 million barrels per day (crude oil and condensate) in 2008, but we consume closer to 20 million barrels per day of liquids (includes all types of hydro-carbon liquids.) Even counting the US natural gas plant liquids, we still import 2/3 of our liquid hydro carbon needs.

206 Cognito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:16:24pm

Calling for Barack Obama to be impeached would certainly rank as hyperventilation. But it really, deeply ticks me off to see him -- and George Bush -- bowing to kings.

We fought a little war to avoid that nonsense.

207 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:16:24pm

re: #199 unrealizedviewpoint

I don't use oil. I ride the bus.

That's not the real point though. Do you use anything made from plastic in your daily life?

You use petroleum products.

208 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:16:36pm

re: #182 jaunte

If some Americans don't want our Presidents to be put in subservient positions vis-a-vis the Saudis, they might have to accept some offshore drilling on the east and west coasts.

Drilling offshore Louisiana has not harmed Louisiana's environment.
Now, perhaps some of the refineries have, back in the day when such things were not regulated as they are today.

I might add - we here in Louisiana seem to not be having the same level of financial distress as the rest of the country is right now, and part of that is due to the money that oil brings to the state. We may yet feel the distress, but it has not hit hard here yet. I'm thinking California might stand to relieve much of its problems if it were to allow offshore drilling.

209 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:16:40pm
210 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:16:42pm

re: #201 DEZes

I'm still making prototypes for the military, gotta keep on it for our troops!

What do you do?

211 Bagua  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:16:44pm

re: #194 Geepers

Bagua (#121),

By what he will do?

I'm already pretty unenamored to him for what he's already done.

Bush had eight years to stand up to the Saudis, he did nothing, instead he supported, empowered and covered for this evil regime.

I have no love for Obama but so far what has he done to support the Saudis?

212 azcon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:16:45pm

re: #62 Charles

Good point.

213 Racer X  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:16:55pm

re: #180 Hengineer

The point Charles made is that we all bow to the Saudis every time we put fuel into our gas tanks.

OK - I'll give you that point.

214 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:17:01pm

re: #203 Racer X

You wanna really tell the Saudis to fuck off?

Build nuke plants. Drill in ANWAR. Drill off the coasts. Become more energy efficient. Build all-electric cars - not just hybrids.

The Saudi regime would collapse if oil went below $20 a barrel and stayed there.

Tell that to China, which is building up.

215 DEZes  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:17:21pm

re: #199 unrealizedviewpoint

I don't use oil. I ride the bus.

A bus that uses no oil, film at 11.

216 Jimash  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:17:31pm

re: #186 Charles

"And what would your reaction be if Barack Obama bowed his head to receive the King Abdul Aziz Order of Merit? "
Is tat it the kng abdul aziz order of merit. Ack ack adack
Same. "Oy I puked a little in my mouth there ". But Obama would have to bow more because he's taller.

217 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:17:38pm

re: #202 Taqiyyotomist

LOL!

Is a rotating title. No originality at this station.

218 Cognito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:17:47pm

re: #197 itellu3times

I just don't like this bowing in front of guys wearing bathrobes, y'know?

It's got nothing to do with the king being Arab. It's got to do with the king being a king. Full stop.

219 Ringo the Gringo  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:17:51pm

They all do it.

If you're offened, that's fine....so long as your offensive is not specific to Barack Obama.

220 Racer X  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:18:01pm

re: #197 itellu3times

I just don't like this bowing in front of guys wearing bathrobes, y'know?

You know why they wear bathrobes right?

221 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:18:05pm

re: #206 Cognito

Calling for Barack Obama to be impeached would certainly rank as hyperventilation. But it really, deeply ticks me off to see him -- and George Bush -- bowing to kings.

We fought a little war to avoid that nonsense.

So an American dignitary should NOT bow (or curtsie, as the case may be) to the Queen of England?

222 DEZes  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:18:05pm

re: #210 NYCHardhat

What do you do?

Tool and die maker.

223 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:18:22pm

re: #209 Iron Fist

Benelli. I think the Nova is even reasonably priced. Mossberg will probably be the best pricewise, though. I'm a bit pissed at Mossberg right now as it is. I bought a breacher barrel from them and it's of acceptible quality (the finish isn't the best, but I'm refinishing the thing anyway), but the ghost ring sites that I bought for it won't work with the barrel. So I've got to ditch the barrel and get a Remington one.

If money is not a big problem, you might want to look at buying one from Wilson Combat. They are built on a Remington 870 action, and they appear to really be a good value. You can't buy all the seperate pieces and put together the same basic shotgun and save any money on the project. I'm very impressed with the quality I've seen from Wilson.

Thank you Fist.

224 little boomer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:18:23pm

re: #215 DEZes

A bus that uses no oil, film at 11.

Bu the bus would use oil even if he didn't take it SO- technically he doesn't.

225 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:18:23pm

re: #207 Hengineer

That's not the real point though. Do you use anything made from plastic in your daily life?

You use petroleum products.

LOL
/

226 Bagua  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:18:39pm

With the media concerned with personality politics, and the "right" doing the same, there is little hope for a meaning opposition based upon actual policy, actions and substance.

227 The Shadow Do  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:18:54pm

Americans should not bow. Ever. Bush, Obama, me...should never happen. I expect our fearless leaders are taking their cues from State, but that is a whole 'nother matter.

228 razorbacker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:18:59pm

re: #160 The Other Les

Ladies curtsy. Gentlemen bow.

Oh, sure. Drag your hetronormative bias into it.

*hetronormative? Is that a word? Sounds good; I'm going with it.*

229 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:19:03pm

u.v.p. #199 was satire. it's a rotating title, some moonbat or other said it way back when. "We don't use oil, we ride the bus."

230 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:19:07pm

re: #221 sattv4u2

So an American dignitary should NOT bow (or curtsie, as the case may be) to the Queen of England?

Definitely not, an American Dignitary should approach the Queen of England as a foreign dignitary should.

Remember we are NOT any monarchs' subjects.

231 HDrepub  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:19:10pm

re: #138 jcm

Nuclear.
Clean Coal.
Offshore.
ANWR.
Natural Gas.
Oil sand and shale.

We have enough. We don't need Saudi.

We just need the WILL to develop our own.

Please people, building forty new nuke power plants, or forty clean coal power plants, would make hardly a dent in our oil usage. We use very little oil to produce electricity, less than 2% of our annual production, and that figure is still falling.
Nuke and clean coal would be good for the environment, but they won't put OPEC out of business.
EIA - Electricity Data, Analysis, Surveys

232 Cognito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:19:10pm

Er.... Charles, come on, man.

I took the video still at face value. That's misleading.

233 The Other Les  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:19:16pm

re: #169 Spare O'Lake

If it's all about the oil, then how come y'all don't bow down to Canadian leaders?
/

Because they would look around to see if The Queen was in the room.

/

234 Geepers  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:19:18pm

Hengineer (#207),

I don't use oil. I ride the bus.

That's not the real point though. Do you use anything made from plastic in your daily life?

You use petroleum products.

That's a play on a sign from a hippie protester posted here at LGF years ago.

235 Cognito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:19:18pm

re: #221 sattv4u2

So an American dignitary should NOT bow (or curtsie, as the case may be) to the Queen of England?

No.

236 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:19:31pm
237 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:19:41pm
238 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:19:57pm

re: #206 Cognito

Calling for Barack Obama to be impeached would certainly rank as hyperventilation. But it really, deeply ticks me off to see him -- and George Bush -- bowing to kings.

We fought a little war to avoid that nonsense.

Welcome to the real world.

239 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:20:08pm

re: #234 Geepers

Hengineer (#207),

That's a play on a sign from a hippie protester posted here at LGF years ago.

Oh, I missed that I guess, it IS rather ignorant haha.

240 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:20:12pm

I wouldn't mind if they bowed to each other.
Preferably at the same time, at close range, good and hard.

241 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:20:32pm

re: #220 Racer X

You know why they wear bathrobes right?

esplain it to cognito, pleeze.

242 Cognito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:20:37pm

re: #238 Charles

Welcome to the real world.

I've been in the real world a long time, dude. What about my comment suggests otherwise?

243 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:20:43pm

Hey, buzz, have you rewritten "Proud Barry" from Credence yet?

244 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:20:58pm

re: #222 DEZes

Tool and die maker.

Tool.

Youtube Video
245 monkey den  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:20:58pm

re: #240 Spare O'Lake

I wouldn't mind if they bowed to each other.
Preferably at the same time, at close range, good and hard.

[recalls 3 Stooges]

246 Cognito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:21:03pm

re: #241 itellu3times

esplain it to cognito, pleeze.

Oh, yes. By all means.

Explain Arab culture to me.

247 Geepers  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:21:04pm

Bagua (#211),

So you believe Obama will stand up to the Saudis?

248 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:21:07pm

If I met the Queen, I would not bow, I would do a "Gentleman's Bow", tilting my head.

249 Opinionated  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:21:21pm

re: #62 Charles

Personally, I find it as disgusting, if not more so, that Bush accepted an award from these people. He bowed to accept an award from the most repressive theocracy on the planet.

Oh, I forgot. Obama is evil.

Obama has been in office less then three months. If you are not yet throughly disgusted with his behavior with the Saudis, if the bow didn't do it for you, just wait.

250 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:21:22pm

re: #248 Hengineer

If I met the Queen, I would not bow, I would do a "Gentleman's Bow", tilting my head.

I am not her Subject.

251 DEZes  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:21:24pm

re: #224 little boomer

Bu the bus would use oil even if he didn't take it SO- technically he doesn't.

So technically the bus would use less if he didn't use the it.

252 Racer X  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:21:33pm

re: #220 Racer X

You know why they wear bathrobes right?

Goats can hear a zipper from 1000 yards away.

253 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:21:41pm

re: #246 Cognito

Sheep and goats can hear a zipper from a long ways away.

254 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:21:42pm

I use public transportation, car pool and/or walk to all of my destinations. I don't own a car and don't need to. But I'm always a bit appalled to see people driving to the corner store a block away from their house when a short walk would save them money and help with reducing America's need for oil. Perhaps I'm naive to think there are a lot of small ways in which we could all use less gas/oil, but it's not too hard to make small changes that will keep at least some money out of the pockets of our enemies.

255 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:21:51pm

DOH!

256 Cognito  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:22:06pm

Wow.

World-class, guys.

257 Kalixiri  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:22:13pm

re: #186 Charles

And what would your reaction be if Barack Obama bowed his head to receive the King Abdul Aziz Order of Merit?

Oh it was disgusting when Bush was playing as the King's best friend for the last 8 years. Note that the point of my post was that you used one frame from a video to imply that Bush "bowed" before the King as a comparison to Obama bowing is misleading. You can argue that we have been subservient to the Saudi's in other ways, but this the first time that a President has expressly bowed before the King that I know of.

Oh, and I got your reference to first time posters. This is the first time that I saw something you wrote that was obviously wrong and in need of correction.

258 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:22:18pm

Charles -

On the DAY we have sufficient Alternative AND Conventional Domestic Sources of Energy, This Nonsense CAN - AND WILL - STOP. The Saudis and their ILK can be consigned BACK to their Sandbox - and the Dustbin of History. That is all.

-Dr. Shalit -

259 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:22:57pm
260 Racer X  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:23:06pm

re: #231 HDrepub

Please people, building forty new nuke power plants, or forty clean coal power plants, would make hardly a dent in our oil usage. We use very little oil to produce electricity, less than 2% of our annual production, and that figure is still falling.
Nuke and clean coal would be good for the environment, but they won't put OPEC out of business.
EIA - Electricity Data, Analysis, Surveys

Uh, cheap electricity means electric cars.

This is the only way to wean America off the Saudis.

261 Bagua  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:23:10pm

In the movies, the mob boss kisses one marked for death on both cheeks...

Deeds matter, social decorum is re: #247 Geepers

Bagua (#211),

So you believe Obama will stand up to the Saudis?

I'm not trying to predict the future, I'm merely pointing out that Obama should be judged by his actual policies and actions, and he has years left to act.

Bush alternatively has finished his term, and he did nothing to oppose the Saudis.

262 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:23:27pm

re: #249 Opinionated

Obama has been in office less then three months. If you are not yet throughly disgusted with his behavior with the Saudis, if the bow didn't do it for you, just wait.

I expect him to be exactly as nauseatingly obsequious toward the Saudis as every US President has been for the past century.

263 Sunlight  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:23:35pm

re: #45 Charles

Cool. So go ahead and keep refusing to face reality, folks. It was so different, what Obama did. He's evil, and Bush was just "accepting an award."

If that makes you feel better, knock yourselves out.

He is leaning over so the Saudi guy can put on the medallion... And then they kiss cheeks like they do everywhere... Here's the one that made me nauseous. And it happened many times. I talked to a guy who spent time working in the Middle East and he said that they want to hold hands all the time and he wouldn't let them. So we know that Pres. Bush could have just said no.

But the real point is that Obama promoted himself as "Change". Not beholden to an Uncle Abdullah and here he is bowing like a servant. It's not evil; it's weak.

264 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:23:54pm
265 Zimriel  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:23:59pm

re: #109 Sharmuta

I'm just stunned anyone would think 0bama bowing to a foreign king was an impeachable offense. That's really ignorant.

Apart from the usual suspects, the Daily Pundit is one of 'em.

266 Racer X  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:24:06pm

re: #256 Cognito

I are cultured.

267 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:24:24pm

re: #259 buzzsawmonkey

Big bailout keep burgeoning
Proud Barry not yet learning
Roll up (roll up), roll up (roll up)
Rollin' up the trillions...

No, not yet.

Buzz -

No Not Yet - and No Not Never if it is palyed right.

-S-

268 Opinionated  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:24:28pm

re: #206 Cognito

But it really, deeply ticks me off to see him -- and George Bush -- bowing to kings.

They don't bow to all Kings.

Now one is going to bow to that midget in Jordan. Or to the Spanish King. Or to someone somewhere else.

They bow only to the Saudis. The worst POS on Earth.

269 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:24:30pm

Why does nobody else in the room bow before the king at these things? Just the American president?

270 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:24:39pm

re: #262 Charles

I expect him to be exactly as nauseatingly obsequious toward the Saudis as every US President has been for the past century.

Pretty much, especially if they are expected to be the biggest US Muslim friend inthe middle east (UAE being a close second)

271 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:24:49pm

re: #257 Kalixiri

Oh it was disgusting when Bush was playing as the King's best friend for the last 8 years. Note that the point of my post was that you used one frame from a video to imply that Bush "bowed" before the King as a comparison to Obama bowing is misleading. You can argue that we have been subservient to the Saudi's in other ways, but this the first time that a President has expressly bowed before the King that I know of.

Oh, and I got your reference to first time posters. This is the first time that I saw something you wrote that was obviously wrong and in need of correction.

So that's not a bow? Looks like a bow to me.

Oh, but it's a better bow. Right.

272 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:25:05pm

Did the Queen of England bow before this man?

273 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:25:51pm

re: #269 Taqiyyotomist

Why does nobody else in the room bow before the king at these things? Just the American president?

Because Obama didn't know the protocol.

274 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:25:54pm

Imagine the UK papers. Oh, man. :)

275 HelloDare  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:26:12pm

re: #272 Taqiyyotomist

Did the Queen of England bow before this man?

They both bowed and bumped heads.

276 brookly red  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:26:15pm

Is any oil coming out of Iraq yet? (no snark, that is a real question)

277 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:26:16pm

re: #256 Cognito

Wow.

World-class, guys.

Hey Sharmuta, I liked it!

278 hiddenlizard  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:26:52pm

America needs to take backs its oil, i.e. the creators of the oil in the Middle East, the individual Western scientists and businessmen, need to take back their property from the people who stole (nationalized) it.

279 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:26:53pm

re: #272 Taqiyyotomist

Did the Queen of England bow before this man?

she might fall over...there are exceptions

280 Opinionated  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:27:00pm

re: #262 Charles

I expect him to be exactly as nauseatingly obsequious toward the Saudis as every US President has been for the past century.

I'll take that bet.

Bush started out strong with some handholding. Sword dancing and putting his wife in a sack came latter.

Obama's early bow has him taking the lead, IMHO.

281 Bagua  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:27:22pm

re: #264 Iron Fist

I'm not the least bit impressed with anything Obama has done so far, nor do I hold out much hope that he will see the light and do the right thing.

In bowing and scraping to the Saudi King he is no different than Bush, so far, his eventual record may be far worse, we will find out.

282 pink freud  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:27:23pm

Re Tea Parties:

Littleoldlady and us LNDT folks were batting around this idea last night and I told her I would run it by the daytime folks:

Here are her posts, in two parts:

"So, I was thinking...

/ouch! ;-)

Much as I like the symbolic idea of the Tea Parties I don't think they will do much good. The MSM won't publish actual numbers of the crowds, if they cover the events at all. And April 15th is a work day. Not a lot of people can afford (or risk!) to take the day off.

Am I right so far?

Back when CAIR was shutting down sites and/or people, eliciting apologies left and right from anyone who "insulted" Islam, they were doing it with emails from just a few hundred people off their mailing lists. I kept saying that we could do the same thing to counteract, but NATURALLY nobody listened to me...

/stay tuned; Part II (with the actual idea) coming up..."

283 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:27:25pm

In martial arts if one guy bows and other doesn't, doesn't one of them run up the wall, do a triple flip and kill the other guy?

284 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:27:41pm

To anyone who thinks this post was "misleading" ... excuse me, but I wrote very clearly that you should "click the image to watch."

285 Lee Coller  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:27:45pm

re: #1 zombie

I thought we outlawed slavery back in 1865?

We did, the Saudi's didn't.

286 mich-again  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:27:45pm

Maybe Obama thought he was in Japan?

287 pink freud  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:28:24pm

Part II

"WHAT IF we were able to deliver to each Senator's office a petition (non-internet; hand signed)? It would just be a simple statement (or two or three statements) of belief, i.e.:

"We believe that The Constitution is the law of the land and no international or current government power can override the vision of the Founding Fathers...and yadda yadda."

"We believe in the private enterprise system and government ownership and control of major industries runs counter to American values...and yadda yadda."

Stuff like that.

/obviously, SOMEBODY ELSE needs to write this thing. ;-)

And WHAT IF we could deliver these petitions with ONE MILLION signatures to each and every senator? What if we used a multi-level marketing format to break this task into little bits, so that 100 people could get 100 other people to take 100 petitions to give to 100 other people to get 100 signatures?

/I think I have 1 100 too many in there, but anyway...

100 x 100 x 100 = 1,000,000 (right, gmsc?)

How powerful would that be?"

Feedback?

288 Ojoe  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:28:25pm

Speaking for myself, I bow to no man. It's a freedom thing™

Here are the lengthening shadows of evening on the San Gabriel Mountains of California. The Towercam, Pacific time zone.


You can see all the little north-south running canyons at the moment.

Be back Tomorrow, Good night.

289 DEZes  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:28:36pm

re: #286 mich-again

Maybe Obama thought he was in Japan?

That's not where I wish him to go.;)

290 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:28:44pm

re: #254 Sharmuta

I use public transportation, car pool and/or walk to all of my destinations. I don't own a car and don't need to. But I'm always a bit appalled to see people driving to the corner store a block away from their house when a short walk would save them money and help with reducing America's need for oil. Perhaps I'm naive to think there are a lot of small ways in which we could all use less gas/oil, but it's not too hard to make small changes that will keep at least some money out of the pockets of our enemies.

Not to mention the fact that for many people, the walk would do them a lot of good.

291 jorline  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:29:02pm

I would have suckered the King into a bow then hit him with the Sham Bow!

Yessssssss He shoots...He scores!

Good evening my little green friends.

292 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:29:29pm

re: #290 reine.de.tout

Not to mention the fact that for many people, the walk would do them a lot of good.

Sadly too many of them can't do the walk as their bodies are physically incapable.

293 pink freud  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:29:38pm

re: #291 jorline

Hi Jorline!

294 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:29:44pm
295 Bagua  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:29:45pm

re: #231 HDrepub

The point is not to put them out of business, if we keep the price of crude in the $20 a barrel region, the Saudis, Iranians et. Al. will have little money to pursue their hostile designs, they will dry out their wells at bargain prices.

296 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:30:03pm

re: #292 Hengineer

Sadly too many of them can't do the walk as their bodies are physically incapable.

like that guy in Dune?

297 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:30:16pm

re: #296 albusteve

like that guy in Dune?

lmao yes.

298 Kalixiri  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:30:20pm

re: #271 Charles

So that's not a bow? Looks like a bow to me.

Oh, but it's a better bow. Right.

Did you watch the video? People lower the heads to allow the person bestowing the award to be able to reach over and around the receiver's head. It happens at every awards ceremony, and the receivers are not showing subservience that would be shown in a "bow." I can't believe that you are arguing this point when there are so many other instances of Bush holding hands/kissing/or otherwise sucking up to the King that you could show.

299 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:30:22pm

re: #292 Hengineer

Sadly too many of them can't do the walk as their bodies are physically incapable.

You are probably correct.
Thankfully, I enjoy walking, a great way to clear the mind and re-energize the body.

300 sattv4u2  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:30:45pm

QUESTION

When the Suadi King is visiting the White House, does (has) the then sitting President bowed when the king is brought in to say the Oval Office? I'm wondering if it is a "place" thing. In that Obama (or Bush) was the "visitor", perhaps thats why!

301 David Simon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:30:46pm

re: #268 Opinionated

They don't bow to all Kings.

Now one is going to bow to that midget in Jordan. Or to the Spanish King. Or to someone somewhere else.

They bow only to the Saudis. The worst POS on Earth.

Upding.

If the royal family didn't sit on 20% of the world's proven oil reserves, their "king" would receive no deference - from any U.S. president, be it Democrat or Republican.

302 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:30:48pm

re: #273 Hengineer

Because Obama didn't know the protocol.

I think maybe you're right Hengineer. That, or he was just really effin' anxious and just responded nervously by bowing.

303 Digital Display  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:30:49pm

re: #291 jorline

I would have suckered the King into a bow then hit him with the Sham Bow!

Yessssssss He shoots...He scores!

Good evening my little green friends.

Good Evening Jorline..

304 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:30:50pm

re: #290 reine.de.tout

Not to mention the fact that for many people, the walk would do them a lot of good.

It's not hard to walk a few blocks, and it is great exercise. People are always surprised by my walking. But then, I'm surprised by their laziness.

305 jorline  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:30:55pm

re: #293 pink freud

Hi Jorline!

Hey pink...what's going on tonight?

306 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:31:04pm
307 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:31:07pm

re: #272 Taqiyyotomist

Did the Queen of England bow before this man?

You're kidding, right?

308 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:31:08pm

re: #295 Bagua

The point is not to put them out of business, if we keep the price of crude in the $20 a barrel region, the Saudis, Iranians et. Al. will have little money to pursue their hostile designs, they will dry out their wells at bargain prices.

Are you people simple?

To do that we have to have WORLD COLLUSION as to GLOBAL DEMAND of oil.
You people are VERY elitist to think that we can control the price of a global commodity all by ourselves.

309 Basho  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:31:13pm

re: #254 Sharmuta

I'm always a bit appalled to see people driving to the corner store a block away from their house when a short walk would save them money and help with reducing America's need for oil. Perhaps I'm naive to think there are a lot of small ways in which we could all use less gas/oil, but it's not too hard to make small changes that will keep at least some money out of the pockets of our enemies.

If the response to Earth Hour is any indication, that kind of well-meaning talk will cause many to respond with something along the lines of "I will use three times as much energy from now on to spite you". C'est le vie.

310 HelloDare  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:31:16pm

Bush should have faked a bow and head butted him.

311 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:31:30pm

re: #292 Hengineer

Sadly too many of them can't do the walk as their bodies are physically incapable.

Bullshit- they're more than capable to walk to their car!

312 mich-again  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:31:32pm

That gold medallion W got from the King was pretty sweet. It would make a nice belt buckle.

313 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:31:43pm

re: #262 Charles

I expect him to be exactly as nauseatingly obsequious toward the Saudis as every US President has been for the past century.

Charles -

Agreed here. In the Days of FDR - they were "risable" - slaughtering goats and sheep at the stern of a US Navy vessel for dinner. Today, not so much.
I truly believe that Dr. Kissinger had t right in the 1970's. Support an "Iranian"/Persian Regime as a counterweight and rmind the "Saudis" that the greater parts of their OIL Producing Provinces were and are MAJORITY SHIA.
That is all, for now.

Dr. Shalit

314 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:31:51pm

Bush did bow to King Abdullah, in this video and in every Saudi-related decision he made during his presidency. If you think there's something special and different about what Barack Obama did, you are fooling yourself.

315 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:32:09pm

re: #304 Sharmuta

It's not hard to walk a few blocks, and it is great exercise. People are always surprised by my walking. But then, I'm surprised by their laziness.

go to NYC or Chicago....people walk, and not just a block or two

316 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:32:11pm

re: #311 Sharmuta

Bullshit- they're more than capable to walk to their car!

And you watch as their car literally drops 5 inches as they step in....

/s

317 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:32:27pm

re: #307 Dianna

It was rhetorical, yes.

318 Sosigado  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:32:49pm

I guess I don't quite understand the intent behind these 'in defense of Barack Obama' threads. At least that's the flavor they kind of have, to me.

319 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:32:54pm

re: #309 Basho

If the response to Earth Hour is any indication, that kind of well-meaning talk will cause many to respond with something along the lines of "I will use three times as much energy from now on to spite you". C'est le vie.

Yeah- you might be right. It's their own pocketbook they're hurting though, not me. They're more that welcome to keep feeding the saudi east they claim to hate though.

320 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:33:20pm

Bush was in S.A. in this video?

Obama was where during his obsequiousness?

321 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:33:25pm

re: #311 Sharmuta

Bullshit- they're more than capable to walk to their car!

Sharm, just sit in a mall parking lot. You will see cars do laps up and down to get the closest parking spot available, when there are good parking spots no more than 5-6 parking aisles away!

322 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:33:41pm

re: #318 Sosigado

I guess I don't quite understand the intent behind these 'in defense of Barack Obama' threads. At least that's the flavor they kind of have, to me.

You just might be missing the point.

323 David Simon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:33:42pm

re: #311 Sharmuta

Bullshit- they're more than capable to walk to their car!

lol. I can't stand those fucking mandated "handicapped" parking spots for that very reason.

324 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:33:43pm

re: #318 Sosigado

It's called intellectual honesty. The world could use more of it.

325 gander  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:33:46pm

CAPTION: President Bush receives a medal from Satan's Minion.

326 Opinionated  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:33:46pm

Charles, the bow didn't stand on its own.

It comes with this:

US Envoy George Mitchell Says Obama backs Arab Peace Initiative

Date: 05 / 04 / 2009

The Saudi-backed Arab Peace Initiative has US President Barack Obama's support, according to US envoy to the Middle East George Mitchell.

327 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:33:52pm

re: #318 Sosigado

I guess I don't quite understand the intent behind these 'in defense of Barack Obama' threads. At least that's the flavor they kind of have, to me.

He's not defending Obama. He's deflecting the attacks, there IS A difference.

328 jorline  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:33:53pm

re: #303 HoosierHoops

Good Evening Jorline..

Hi Hoopster...my son is pissed because I told him Michigan State would own U Conn last night...lol

329 freetoken  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:33:53pm

re: #286 mich-again

Maybe Obama thought he was in Japan?

In which case his method was wrong. The Japanese symbolic bow has a definite method.

All of this concern about perfunctory genuflecting is just a way of venting about the real issue (dependence, and inter-dependence), about which any real solution is quite difficult.

330 HDrepub  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:33:55pm

re: #260 Racer X

Uh, cheap electricity means electric cars.

This is the only way to wean America off the Saudis.

I understand your point, but most people think in terms of replacing oil produced electricity with nuke power, even politicians who should know better. Actually I think some of them do but just use it because it just sounds good to say it out loud.
America is a big country and so far we haven't come up with an electric vehicle that can make the long haul.
New construction of any type of power plant is expensive these days, and the debt has to be retired with the price of the new power.
I worked in the electric power industry for thirty years, and don't pretend to be an expert, but I do know a little more than the average consumer of electricity.

331 Bagua  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:33:59pm

re: #308 Hengineer

Are you people simple?

To do that we have to have WORLD COLLUSION as to GLOBAL DEMAND of oil.
You people are VERY elitist to think that we can control the price of a global commodity all by ourselves.

Your entire argument was destroyed over the last few months when the price of Crude Oil collapsed due to a small slow down in consumption, by contrast, a major effort by the worlds largest consumer of Crude to build nuclear plants, coal plants, drill, convert coal to fuel, etc. etc. would further collapse the price of Crude and keep it there for decades.

332 jaunte  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:34:05pm

Master Kim Soo always advised his students not to take their eyes off their opponents while bowing.

333 acwgusa  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:34:22pm

I would love to impeach my gas tank. Unfortunately, there is no real electric option until 2011. Oh well. Off to the Ducati store!

334 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:34:25pm

re: #310 HelloDare

Bush should have faked a bow and head butted him.

But, he really wanted the shiny gold medal.

335 razorbacker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:34:34pm

re: #294 Iron Fist

Cheap electricity pretty much requires nulear power. So, too, does any reasonable approach toward cutting our CO2 emmisions (if that is a concern of yours)

As a boy, I remember reading that, by the year 2000, electricity would be so cheap to produce that it would be unmetered, and thus free.

'Course there were a couple of bumps in the road towards that nuclear nirvana, but still.

336 Sosigado  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:34:34pm

re: #322 Charles

You just might be missing the point.

Wouldn't be the first time, for that.

337 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:34:47pm

My two cents:

1) I thought Obama's bow was awful and humiliating. But impeachable? of course not. Not a high crime or misdemeanor.

2) I'm not happy about Bush or any previous President kowtowing in any way to these Dark Age goons.

3) Nevertheless, no, what Bush did was not a "bow".

4) "Impeach our gas tanks" sounds nice, but is a little unrealistic.

338 Lee Coller  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:34:48pm

re: #318 Sosigado

I guess I don't quite understand the intent behind these 'in defense of Barack Obama' threads. At least that's the flavor they kind of have, to me.

It's called being honest.

339 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:34:51pm
340 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:35:04pm

bow bow bow
bow bow berann

(Brian Wilson)

341 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:35:21pm

re: #331 Bagua

Your entire argument was destroyed over the last few months when the price of Crude Oil collapsed due to a small slow down in consumption, by contrast, a major effort by the worlds largest consumer of Crude to build nuclear plants, coal plants, drill, convert coal to fuel, etc. etc. would further collapse the price of Crude and keep it there for decades.

That may be true, but there are consumers on the up and up....

342 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:35:25pm

This is the funniest thread of the week.

343 DEZes  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:35:31pm

Gonna bow out, have a good night all.

344 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:35:43pm

re: #321 Hengineer

Sharm, just sit in a mall parking lot. You will see cars do laps up and down to get the closest parking spot available, when there are good parking spots no more than 5-6 parking aisles away!

That's not because they're not capable of walking, it's because they're lazy and don't want to. If they want to waste gas and time, they can be my guest, it's just my opinion that they're part of the problem. And it's stopping behaviors such as mall lapping that I'm talking about. Small things- it adds up eventually.

345 pat  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:35:47pm

I would not consider that a bow. And the Sunni do not bow. Only the Shia. Who ever is in charge of Obama's protocol office ia a national disgrace.

346 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:35:53pm

re: #326 Opinionated

Charles, the bow didn't stand on its own.

It comes with this:

US Envoy George Mitchell Says Obama backs Arab Peace Initiative

Date: 05 / 04 / 2009

And do you really believe there weren't similar quid pro quo deals with George W. Bush?

347 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:35:57pm

re: #328 jorline

Hi Hoopster...my son is pissed because I told him Michigan State would own U Conn last night...lol

not only that but they WILL defeat UNC...bet me

348 David Simon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:36:00pm

re: #318 Sosigado

I guess I don't quite understand the intent behind these 'in defense of Barack Obama' threads. At least that's the flavor they kind of have, to me.

I'm sorry you see it that way. I prefer to see it as an "in defense of the facts" thread.

349 acwgusa  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:36:00pm

re: #309 Basho

If the response to Earth Hour is any indication, that kind of well-meaning talk will cause many to respond with something along the lines of "I will use three times as much energy from now on to spite you". C'est le vie.

I loved Earth Hour! I loved waving with my plugged in X-Box 360 as it whizzed by!

/That's why those damn things RROD! They suck enough power to light a city block!

350 mich-again  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:36:04pm

re: #318 Sosigado

I guess I don't quite understand the intent behind these 'in defense of Barack Obama' threads. At least that's the flavor they kind of have, to me.

No. I think its more fact-checking the hyperventilators.

351 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:36:15pm

re: #344 Sharmuta

That's not because they're not capable of walking, it's because they're lazy and don't want to. If they want to waste gas and time, they can be my guest, it's just my opinion that they're part of the problem. And it's stopping behaviors such as mall lapping that I'm talking about. Small things- it adds up eventually.

I know it does, I was bein a lil sarcastic about their ability to walk. I know they can walk, just too lazy too.

352 pink freud  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:36:26pm

re: #305 jorline

Trying to drum up support for littleoldlady's hand-signed petition idea. :-)

353 Kalixiri  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:36:31pm

re: #284 Charles

To anyone who thinks this post was "misleading" ... excuse me, but I wrote very clearly that you should "click the image to watch."

Yes but the title of the post is "Bush Bowed Too." Since he was receiving an award, I call that misleading or a mistake.

re: #314 Charles

Bush did bow to King Abdullah, in this video and in every Saudi-related decision he made during his presidency. If you think there's something special and different about what Barack Obama did, you are fooling yourself.

Could you link to any other cases where Bush "bowed" to the King? I remember none specifically.

354 Digital Display  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:36:33pm

re: #328 jorline

Hi Hoopster...my son is pissed because I told him Michigan State would own U Conn last night...lol

LOL It was a shocka!
Monday night is like Christmas for me..The National Championship game

355 grahamski  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:36:36pm

He is not bowing, he is allowing the medal to be placed around his neck...The kiss on the other hand...

356 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:36:37pm

re: #323 David Simon

lol. I can't stand those fucking mandated "handicapped" parking spots for that very reason.

It's not the spaces you're really pissed at David. It's the pigs who abuse the system who park in them to go the gym.

357 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:36:38pm

re: #314 Charles

Bush did bow to King Abdullah, in this video and in every Saudi-related decision he made during his presidency.

The Saudis did not exactly turn somersaults over the idea of invading Iraq. Nor were they crazy about Bush's relatively strong support for Israel.

358 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:36:49pm

Also- I take public transportation to the mall. Drops me off right at the door where it also picks me up.

359 jwb7605  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:36:58pm

re: #342 Spare O'Lake

This is the funniest thread of the week.


Upding.
I keep hoping the argument will turn to whether somebody took their shoes off in Japan, or something.

360 HelloDare  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:37:14pm

re: #318 Sosigado

If you want to understand the purpose of a thread, I suggest you check how it's tagged.

Tags: Saudi Arabia, Islam, Wahhabism, Misogyny, Women's Rights, Sharia, Apartheid, Barack Obama, George W. Bush
361 Lee Coller  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:37:24pm

re: #337 Occasional Reader

My two cents:

1) I thought Obama's bow was awful and humiliating. But impeachable? of course not. Not a high crime or misdemeanor.

2) I'm not happy about Bush or any previous President kowtowing in any way to these Dark Age goons.

3) Nevertheless, no, what Bush did was not a "bow".

4) "Impeach our gas tanks" sounds nice, but is a little unrealistic.

I disagree, Bush bowed down to receive a medal, there should be no debate about that. To be honest, I'm not sure that still of saw of Obama was a bow, it appeared to me that he was simply looking at something. I'll admit though I haven't followed that closely (I have more important things to do), so I'm willing to be corrected.

In any case, Charles is right, we've been bowing to the Saudi's for generations.

362 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:37:26pm

re: #318 Sosigado

I guess I don't quite understand the intent behind these 'in defense of Barack Obama' threads. At least that's the flavor they kind of have, to me.

sosigado -

What Charles is trying to say, to my mind, is that we - The US - have kissed the "Saudi" Ring for many years - AND - that Pres. Obama is NO EXCEPTION.
On this one can see either "diplomacy" - Our Version - OR - SUBMISSION - Their Version. I would prefer a Day and situation to give them NO VERSION!

Dr. Shalit

363 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:37:33pm
364 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:37:39pm

re: #318 Sosigado

I guess I don't quite understand the intent behind these 'in defense of Barack Obama' threads. At least that's the flavor they kind of have, to me.

These don't seem to me to be "in defense of Barack Obama" threads at all.

They are about applying the same standards (of glee or disgust, take your pick) regardless of the person's political affiliation.

I got very upset with a lib friend of mine recently, when she said something and it became clear to me that she was applying a different standard of what is right, depending upon a person's religious views and race.

Much as it might make me uncomfortable, the fact is that all of our national leaders, Dem or Rep, have "bowed" to the Saudis, if not physically, then through their deference to them.

365 avanti  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:37:47pm

re: #318 Sosigado

I guess I don't quite understand the intent behind these 'in defense of Barack Obama' threads. At least that's the flavor they kind of have, to me.

Sometimes a defense of fairness might favor Obama, but in the long run, fairness makes the legitimate criticisms seem more valid.

366 Geepers  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:37:59pm

Opinionated (#326),

Charles, the bow didn't stand on its own.

It comes with this:

US Envoy George Mitchell Says Obama backs Arab Peace Initiative

Date: 05 / 04 / 2009

Yeah, that's worse than a bow.

367 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:38:02pm

re: #356 unrealizedviewpoint

It's not the spaces you're really pissed at David. It's the pigs who abuse the system who park in them to go the gym.

I think it was at UCLA, but there was a college-athlete scandal involving handicapped parking spaces....

368 Basho  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:38:27pm

re: #329 freetoken

All of this concern about perfunctory genuflecting is just a way of venting about the real issue (dependence, and inter-dependence), about which any real solution is quite difficult.

Whining about Obama bowing to the head of Saudi Arabia is much more easier than making any actual lifestyle changes that could have a real effect. Sort of like those people in the Bible who thought making a goat sacrifice was a substitute to actually living the life God wanted them to.

369 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:38:44pm

re: #308 Hengineer

Are you people simple?

To do that we have to have WORLD COLLUSION as to GLOBAL DEMAND of oil.
You people are VERY elitist to think that we can control the price of a global commodity all by ourselves.

There's also the slight problem that if we somehow did manage to drive down the price of oil back to $20/bbl, that would favor increased market share for the lowest-cost producers. And guess who they are, folks?

370 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:38:46pm

So regardless, how come the "bow" was NEVER displayed in the news? And how come Bush's so-called "bows" were never displayed on CNN or MSNBC?

That in my mind is the real question...

371 jorline  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:39:07pm

re: #347 albusteve

not only that but they WILL defeat UNC...bet me

May have to agree with you...I love the underdog.

372 Bagua  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:39:09pm

re: #341 Hengineer

My point is this whole "we can do nothing to lower the price of oil" is just nonsense. They said it would be 10 years before the price of petrol would come down, even a little, even with a massive increase in drilling, yet, we all witnessed the price of Crude Oil make a historic drop, that with absolutely no new supply. Now image if we made a massive effort to develop our domestic supply, along with coal, nuclear, Nat. Gas? The Saudis would still sell their Oil, but at very low prices.

373 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:39:13pm

I'm not quite sure what we're fighting about; I'm reading some rather sharp tones here.

We all agree that US administrations have been too obsequious to the Saudis, right?

374 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:39:15pm

re: #357 Occasional Reader

The Saudis did not exactly turn somersaults over the idea of invading Iraq. Nor were they crazy about Bush's relatively strong support for Israel.

All true. And by 2008, more like 2006, the Saudis were good and sick of Bush. What's the date of this tape?

However, in another world than this, it might not have been Iraq that we invaded after 9/11.

375 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:39:18pm

re: #287 pink freud

The economic situation is very complicated and there's a lot of misinformation being passed around. So far everything the government has been done is Constitutional no mater how many times people claim otherwise. We might eventually see some of this challenged in court but don't hold you breath.
There's also a lot of misinformation about the bailouts and how much control/ownership the government is taking in private companies.

In some ways this situation is very much like the bow we're talking about in this thread. We aren't seeing anything new. Pretty much any competent leader would be doing more or less the same thing with the economy that Obama is doing. The only thing that has changed is now the right is in a tizzy about the Constitution and government power grabs instead of the left.

I think the best thing to do is stay calm, watch, learn, read, educate yourself and think rationally.

376 David Simon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:39:18pm

re: #356 unrealizedviewpoint

It's not the spaces you're really pissed at David. It's the pigs who abuse the system who park in them to go the gym.

lol. Yes, I detest them the most. But the others are disgusting too. If you're that feeble, what are you doing shopping at the fucking mall?

377 Opinionated  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:39:21pm

re: #346 Charles

And do you really believe there weren't similar quid pro quo deals with George W. Bush?

It's a strange debate we're having.

If you've read my opinions on your board I am the last person to ever defend Bush vis a vis the Saudis.

The difference, I beleive, is that with Bush it was likely more of the just business variety. With Obama it's more personal.

378 Zimriel  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:39:36pm

re: #318 Sosigado

I guess I don't quite understand the intent behind these 'in defense of Barack Obama' threads. At least that's the flavor they kind of have, to me.

I will assume that you are asking this in good faith, and aren't just posting a [deleted]able "but whyyy Charrrles can't you post on something elllllsse" whine.

The sort of person who visits LGF is the sort of person who visits other pro-Western sites. Those other sites have their share of excitable people. Many of these sites, sadly, gin up traffic by keeping the OUTRAGE pot on a boil. We want this stuff here because it gives us perspective, that would be lacking if we hung out at extreme sites all the time.

379 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:39:38pm

re: #361 Lee Coller

To be honest, I'm not sure that still of saw of Obama was a bow,

That was my first reaction. But there's video, too (check Youtube or whatever). Yes, it was a bow.

380 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:39:38pm

re: #353 Kalixiri

Could you link to any other cases where Bush "bowed" to the King? I remember none specifically.

Why don't you do your own research? It's pretty easy to find examples of Bush kow-towing to the Saudis. Unless you're blinded by partisan politics, of course.

381 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:39:47pm

re: #339 Iron Fist

I used to walk a lot. It is a good activity to keep the body active while freeing the mind to dwell on other, more important things. I used to do a lot of dwelling :-)

Nowadays walking is somewhat problematic. It's kind of like my body has passed its expiration date or something. Oh, well. That's life. They say it beats the alternative :-)

Sorry, Iron Fist. My hubby has peripheral neuropathy, can't feel his feet and so has to be very careful when walking, and if he grips something for awhile, like a steering wheel or the handles of the mower, his hands will be "frozen" in that position for a good while afterwards. It's miserable.

382 jorline  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:40:11pm

re: #352 pink freud

Trying to drum up support for littleoldlady's hand-signed petition idea. :-)

Send me a link...I missed it.

383 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:40:27pm

Obama will gift the Saudis with his daughters, and we'll have an alliance of Kingdoms.
hehe.
/

384 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:40:30pm

re: #318 Sosigado

How about 'in the defense of reason'? Does that sound better? That's how it tastes to me.

385 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:40:36pm

re: #367 Hengineer

I think it was at UCLA, but there was a college-athlete scandal involving handicapped parking spaces....

Yes, it certainly occured at UCLA, about, oh, three years ago? Actually, happens about every three or four years, it seems, like some kind of cicada.

386 mich-again  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:40:41pm

re: #353 Kalixiri

Could you link to any other cases where Bush "bowed" to the King? I remember none specifically.

I know he kissed cheeks, held hands and strolled, and even danced the sword dance with the King, but I don't recall any bows. But I think the cheek-cheek kiss is about on par with a bow.

387 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:40:46pm

re: #373 Dianna

I'm not quite sure what we're fighting about; I'm reading some rather sharp tones here.

We all agree that US administrations have been too obsequious to the Saudis, right?

Well, I do.

388 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:40:47pm

Figured it out yet?

Youtube Video
389 Jimash  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:40:51pm

re: #370 Hengineer

They didn't need to. they had better pictures of hand-holding and kissing.
Regardless.
What did GWB do to earn the King Abdul Aziz Order of Merit necklace ?

390 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:40:58pm

re: #371 jorline

May have to agree with you...I love the underdog.

heh...must be an aquired taste

391 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:41:04pm

re: #345 pat

I would not consider that a bow. And the Sunni do not bow. Only the Shia. Who ever is in charge of Obama's protocol office ia a national disgrace.

I'll bet a dozen donuts (or fruit-cups) Obama didn't know and when he saw all the royalty, got anxious, and just bowed, as a commoner should.

392 Archimedes  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:41:06pm

re: #373 Dianna

I'm not quite sure what we're fighting about; I'm reading some rather sharp tones here.

We all agree that US administrations have been too obsequious to the Saudis, right?

I agree, at any rate.

393 razorbacker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:41:08pm

re: #356 unrealizedviewpoint

It's not the spaces you're really pissed at David. It's the pigs who abuse the system who park in them to go the gym.

Last time I dislocated my kneecap, it took a bit longer to heal than it usually does. A friend asked why I didn't get one of those handicapped stickers. I told him that I wasn't handicapped, I was injured. I intended to get better. Those tags were for the poor sods who weren't going to get better.

394 Bob Dillon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:41:12pm

re: #373 Dianna

I'm not quite sure what we're fighting about; I'm reading some rather sharp tones here.

We all agree that US administrations have been too obsequious to the Saudis, right?

Right!

395 Lee Coller  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:41:24pm

re: #379 Occasional Reader

That was my first reaction. But there's video, too (check Youtube or whatever). Yes, it was a bow.

I'll take your word for it.

396 Sosigado  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:41:24pm

OK, already! My musing was more rhetorical, than anything else. It wasn't meant to be confrontational. Whew.

397 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:41:34pm

re: #383 Taqiyyotomist

You're twisting my melon, man.

398 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:41:36pm

re: #339 Iron Fist

I used to walk a lot. It is a good activity to keep the body active while freeing the mind to dwell on other, more important things. I used to do a lot of dwelling :-)

Nowadays walking is somewhat problematic. It's kind of like my body has passed its expiration date or something. Oh, well. That's life. They say it beats the alternative :-)

{Cousin Fist}. I enjoy walking for the thought pondering myself. It's when I've done some of my best thinking.

399 pat  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:41:36pm

No question Bush was a Saudi kiss ass.

400 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:41:38pm

re: #346 Charles

And do you really believe there weren't similar quid pro quo deals with George W. Bush?

Do you believe that Obama will support Israel more than Bush did, or less?

401 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:41:48pm

re: #372 Bagua

My point is this whole "we can do nothing to lower the price of oil" is just nonsense. They said it would be 10 years before the price of petrol would come down, even a little, even with a massive increase in drilling, yet, we all witnessed the price of Crude Oil make a historic drop, that with absolutely no new supply. Now image if we made a massive effort to develop our domestic supply, along with coal, nuclear, Nat. Gas? The Saudis would still sell their Oil, but at very low prices.

I do agree we should but I really doubt that oil will ever lower to $20 a barrel.

402 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:41:52pm

re: #383 Taqiyyotomist

Even with the tag, I don't like that one.

403 jcm  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:42:01pm

re: #147 sattv4u2

Agreed, but all highlighted are beintg held hostage by the Enviro- NIMBY coalition

re: #153 jwb7605

I struck out the currently unavailable options.
Nuclear is iffy, and only under consideration if it's "safe".
We're working on battery and solar panel technology, remember?

That's the point.
We've (collective) decided to be beholden to the oil ticks.

404 David Simon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:42:02pm

re: #357 Occasional Reader

The Saudis did not exactly turn somersaults over the idea of invading Iraq.

True, but they did offer up Prince Sultan air base (so long as it was used for "non-attack" missions).

405 The Shadow Do  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:42:12pm

This whole respect for royalty thing is or, in the case of the Saudis, should be regarded as an anachronism we as a people jettisoned in 1776.

When, as a kid growing up as an American in England, I went with my mother to "see" the Queen who was coming through a little town near us I was admonished that as an "ambassador for my Country" (a heavy burden for a ten year old by the way) that I was not to look directly at Her Majesty. What? Didn't we come here to see her?

Needless to say, I boldly stared and even took a photo as she passed even as the crowd stared at its' feet. I was surprised to see an old Brit next to me looking on as well. He looked at me and I looked at him and then he went on a 5 minute rant about the ridiculous royalty thing! Unforgettable old coot. He should have been an American.

406 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:42:28pm

re: #375 Killgore Trout

The economic situation is very complicated and there's a lot of misinformation being passed around. So far everything the government has been done is Constitutional no mater how many times people claim otherwise. We might eventually see some of this challenged in court but don't hold you breath.
There's also a lot of misinformation about the bailouts and how much control/ownership the government is taking in private companies.

In some ways this situation is very much like the bow we're talking about in this thread. We aren't seeing anything new. Pretty much any competent leader would be doing more or less the same thing with the economy that Obama is doing. The only thing that has changed is now the right is in a tizzy about the Constitution and government power grabs instead of the left.

I think the best thing to do is stay calm, watch, learn, read, educate yourself and think rationally.

good grief what bullshit

407 Basho  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:42:30pm

re: #373 Dianna

We all agree that US administrations have been too obsequious to the Saudis, right?

In principle, yes. But we love their oil which makes us all a little hypocritical.

408 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:42:34pm
409 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:42:44pm

My bad, if stinky has to do his thing.

411 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:43:05pm
412 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:43:12pm

re: #405 The Shadow Do

This whole respect for royalty thing is or, in the case of the Saudis, should be regarded as an anachronism we as a people jettisoned in 1776.

When, as a kid growing up as an American in England, I went with my mother to "see" the Queen who was coming through a little town near us I was admonished that as an "ambassador for my Country" (a heavy burden for a ten year old by the way) that I was not to look directly at Her Majesty. What? Didn't we come here to see her?

Needless to say, I boldly stared and even took a photo as she passed even as the crowd stared at its' feet. I was surprised to see an old Brit next to me looking on as well. He looked at me and I looked at him and then he went on a 5 minute rant about the ridiculous royalty thing! Unforgettable old coot. He should have been an American.


That my friends is exactly right.

413 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:43:28pm
414 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:43:31pm
415 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:43:33pm

re: #406 albusteve

Ron Paul! Tea Party!

416 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:43:45pm

re: #337 Occasional Reader

My two cents:

1) I thought Obama's bow was awful and humiliating. But impeachable? of course not. Not a high crime or misdemeanor.

2) I'm not happy about Bush or any previous President kowtowing in any way to these Dark Age goons.

3) Nevertheless, no, what Bush did was not a "bow".

4) "Impeach our gas tanks" sounds nice, but is a little unrealistic.

Just wait until something truly impeachable comes along! Will the Right be the Boy who cried Wolf?

As for the "bow", one would have to be even shorter than me in order to not have to dip his head for a medal.

417 Bagua  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:43:46pm

re: #401 Hengineer

Back when it was $147 a barrel people were wittering on about how we'd never see it below $80. Last I looked, they were wrong.

$20 a barrel would be a high estimate if we did the things we should.

418 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:43:49pm

re: #409 Taqiyyotomist

My bad, if stinky has to do his thing.

No, I don't think it's out of line, just ... painful.

419 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:44:00pm

Yikes.

420 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:44:04pm
421 pink freud  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:44:05pm

re: #363 buzzsawmonkey

Something in lieu of the tea parties, see [Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

422 David Simon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:44:07pm

re: #393 razorbacker

Last time I dislocated my kneecap, it took a bit longer to heal than it usually does. A friend asked why I didn't get one of those handicapped stickers. I told him that I wasn't handicapped, I was injured. I intended to get better. Those tags were for the poor sods who weren't going to get better.

Except, like any other well meaning government program, it gets mercilessly abused.

423 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:44:10pm

re: #400 Occasional Reader

Do you believe that Obama will support Israel more than Bush did, or less?

I think all American politicians are simply trying to tread water. Nobody is really working toward a genuine solution.

424 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:44:14pm

re: #404 David Simon

True, but they did offer up Prince Sultan air base (so long as it was used for "non-attack" missions).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we wind up having to more or less bug out of that air base, and build a brand new one in Qatar (IIRC), precisely because of Saudi intransigence?

425 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:44:32pm

re: #411 Dasher

*whack*

When are you gonna' piss on Charles' coffee table?

426 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:44:32pm

re: #415 Killgore Trout

Ron Paul! Tea Party!

DRINK!....(I'll buy)

427 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:44:41pm

re: #411 Dasher

How long do you think you'll last?

428 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:44:54pm

re: #407 Basho

In principle, yes. But we love their oil which makes us all a little hypocritical.

I have nothing to say to that. Hypocrisy being the courtesy that vice pays to virtue and all that.

429 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:44:55pm

re: #400 Occasional Reader

Do you believe that Obama will support Israel more than Bush did, or less?

What's up with the downding, Basho? It's a straightforward question.

430 Opinionated  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:45:06pm

When he was a child living in an Islamic country, who would you think Obama would respect more, the President of the United States or the Saudi King?

431 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:45:12pm
432 mich-again  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:45:14pm

There had been speculation that Obama would visit the Pope while in Europe, but apparently it didn't happen. I wonder if he would have bowed then?

433 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:45:22pm

re: #367 Hengineer

I think it was at UCLA, but there was a college-athlete scandal involving handicapped parking spaces....

I think the going rate for a handicap placard is $30. Available at most any Valet Parking facility.

434 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:45:24pm

re: #410 HelloDare

Remember all the commotion about President Bush and Abdullah holding hands?

Clearly, Bush is gay.
//

435 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:45:30pm

re: #430 Opinionated

When he was a child living in an Islamic country, who would you think Obama would respect more, the President of the United States or the Saudi King?

His nonexistent daddy?

436 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:45:34pm
437 jaunte  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:45:37pm

re: #427 Sharmuta

You don't often see him without Prancer and Vixen.

438 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:45:39pm

re: #424 Occasional Reader

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we wind up having to more or less bug out of that air base, and build a brand new one in Qatar (IIRC), precisely because of Saudi intransigence?

more like transigence

439 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:45:42pm

re: #423 Charles

I think all American politicians are simply trying to tread water. Nobody is really working toward a genuine solution.

It almost seems as if they've given up, and are grabbing all the loot they can.

440 NYCHardhat  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:45:43pm

re: #431 Lee Coller

Going for a record on down-dings? You've a long way to go to match annefrance.

Does anyone have a link to annefrance?

441 Zimriel  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:45:45pm

Back in 2002, when most of the blogosphere was libertarianish and pro-American, I find this. Quite a few of us were, in fact, taking Bush to task for his lapses, including with respect to the Saudies (to whom no respect is due).

442 Basho  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:45:51pm

re: #429 Occasional Reader

What's up with the downding, Basho? It's a straightforward question.

Sounded like a false dichotomy to me.

443 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:45:58pm

re: #432 mich-again

There had been speculation that Obama would visit the Pope while in Europe, but apparently it didn't happen. I wonder if he would have bowed then?

Doubt it, Obama's not Catholic.

444 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:46:09pm
445 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:46:21pm

re: #437 jaunte

LOL

446 David Simon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:46:25pm

re: #373 Dianna

I'm not quite sure what we're fighting about; I'm reading some rather sharp tones here.

We all agree that US administrations have been too obsequious to the Saudis, right?

Bears repeating.

447 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:46:28pm

re: #423 Charles

I think all American politicians are simply trying to tread water. Nobody is really working toward a genuine solution.

So why are we so paralyzed? There ought to be a pretty obvious alliance between the energy independence crowd and the greens. Yet those two parties are at daggers' drawn.

448 pink freud  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:47:16pm

re: #382 jorline

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

449 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:47:17pm
450 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:47:19pm

re: #442 Basho

Sounded like a false dichotomy to me.

Um... how is "more" or "less" a false dichotomy?

451 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:47:21pm

re: #447 Dianna

So why are we so paralyzed? There ought to be a pretty obvious alliance between the energy independence crowd and the greens. Yet those two parties are at daggers' drawn.

Because they are split between Energy independence, being green and NIMBY.

NIMBY usually trumps, for some reason.

452 HelloDare  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:47:29pm

re: #434 Slumbering Behemoth

Clearly, Bush is gay.
//

Democratic Underground amused themselves with this.

453 Bob Dillon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:47:34pm

re: #407 Basho

In principle, yes. But we love their oil which makes us all a little hypocritical.

Not me - I love our oil and have fought for it's development from the 60s to present.

454 Kalixiri  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:47:42pm

re: #380 Charles

Why don't you do your own research? It's pretty easy to find examples of Bush kow-towing to the Saudis. Unless you're blinded by partisan politics, of course.

I have looked. The only example I can find is when Bush bowed to the Pope.
[Link: politics.randomplayground.net...]

But the reason I asked is because you made the assertion that Bush bowed to the Saudis at every meeting between the two. All I asked for was evidence. Note that, while I agree that Bush did kow-tow to the Saudis, I don't consider "kow-towing" and bowing the same.

455 Digital Display  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:47:51pm

Bang bang
Thats whens Charles hammer came down on his head
Bang Bang
Thats when Charles hammer made sure he was dead

456 jaunte  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:48:00pm

re: #447 Dianna

I think the greens believe in magical solutions, and aren't ready to accept the technology that we'll need to use to keep our economy running.

457 nyc redneck  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:48:04pm

pres. bush accepting the medal and doing the sword dance w/ the saudi king
is difficult to watch.
but because i trust him more to have the best interests of our country in mind, i can let his actions slide more easily than o's dashing up to the saudi king and eagerly bowing like a school girl.
his behavior is untrustworthy on it's face, since he has been bowing and scraping and begging to get the jihadis to notice him and see what a lightworker he is and consequently "unclench" their barbarian fists.
he is coming from a point of weakness across the board from day one.
i don't trust o to put us first, to protect our country. his groveling to the saudi is
a bad omen to me.
way worse than pres, bush making nice w/ the king.

458 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:48:05pm

re: #449 buzzsawmonkey

Charles: you may want to take out my #420. I shouldn't have quoted.

Same with my #413

459 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:48:06pm
460 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:48:11pm

re: #447 Dianna

So why are we so paralyzed? There ought to be a pretty obvious alliance between the energy independence crowd and the greens. Yet those two parties are at daggers' drawn.

Because the greens' solution doesn't include drilling our own oil. That would still be damaging to the environment for them.

461 jorline  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:48:14pm

re: #354 HoosierHoops

LOL It was a shocka!
Monday night is like Christmas for me..The National Championship game

My routine before any major sporting event is to get one of those 24 count beer trays...fill all the cups to the brim...strap that sucker on and walk around the living room harking...Beer here, Get your cold beer here.

When I don't get any takers I sit in my favorite easy chair and enjoy the fruits of my hard work...lol

462 Zimriel  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:48:23pm

re: #449 buzzsawmonkey

Charles: you may want to take out my #420. I shouldn't have quoted.

At least you can blame it on #420!

463 HDrepub  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:48:32pm

re: #335 razorbacker

As a boy, I remember reading that, by the year 2000, electricity would be so cheap to produce that it would be unmetered, and thus free.

'Course there were a couple of bumps in the road towards that nuclear nirvana, but still.


The actual production of power is cheaper, but the amount of debt required to construct a plant drives the cost up over a long term.
A few utilities have gone bankrupt over nuclear power construction debt.
Aubrey Wagner, one time chairman of the Tennessee Valley Authority was the person who said nuke power would be too cheap to meter. Note that TVA scrapped a large portion of his overly ambitious construction of nuke power plants. I have nothing against nuke power, it's just not the panacea it's perceived to be by many.

464 Basho  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:48:52pm

re: #450 Occasional Reader

Um... how is "more" or "less" a false dichotomy?

I mean with respect to... ah nevermind I canceled the downding. I'm too tired.

465 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:49:02pm

re: #451 Hengineer

Because they are split between Energy independence, being green and NIMBY.

NIMBY usually trumps, for some reason.

I've never had much time for the NIMBYs.

466 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:49:09pm

re: #452 HelloDare

Democratic Underground amused themselves with this.

That is kind of amusing, though.

467 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:49:13pm

re: #463 HDrepub

The actual production of power is cheaper, but the amount of debt required to construct a plant drives the cost up over a long term.
A few utilities have gone bankrupt over nuclear power construction debt.
Aubrey Wagner, one time chairman of the Tennessee Valley Authority was the person who said nuke power would be too cheap to meter. Note that TVA scrapped a large portion of his overly ambitious construction of nuke power plants. I have nothing against nuke power, it's just not the panacea it's perceived to be by many.

Only because they've been regulated to the point of oblivion.

468 jaunte  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:49:17pm

Kow-tow:
Kau tàuh) is the act of deep respect shown by kneeling and bowing so low as to touch the head to the ground.
[Link: en.wikipedia.org...]

469 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:49:17pm

re: #423 Charles

I think all American politicians are simply trying to tread water. Nobody is really working toward a genuine solution...

...for most every problem.

470 jwb7605  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:49:19pm

re: #403 jcm

That's the point.
We've (collective) decided to be beholden to the oil ticks.

52% of us seem to have decided that.
Those people actually think we can bring up solar and battery technology in short fashion.
You know, the ones that bray about oil drilling being 10 years out?
You know, the ones that claim stem cell research will cure everything in 2 or 3 years?
You know, the ones that think Solar Cells (at 25% efficiency) is cool, and block trying to put them in the desert for environmental reasons?

What do we do with depleted batteries when we get that working quickly?
Is there a "Yucca Mountain" option?
Why is Gallium arsenide (GaAs) multijunction technology considered clean?

//rant OFF. That lit my grumpy panel, and it's not your fault.

471 azcon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:49:20pm

There is no denying that Bush sucked up to the POS Saudis. We just have to get our leaders (both rep. and dem) out of that mindset. It's freaking disgusting. Just because someone holds the title of king, queen, prince etc. they are no better than you or me. They should not bow to anyone any more than what Obama did to the queen. Basically a little more than a nod of the head.

I would bow to Wayne Gretzky (the Great One) before bowing to anyone of these world leaders.

472 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:49:20pm

Well, updings for the pennyfarthing bicycle reference.

473 albusteve  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:49:31pm

re: #451 Hengineer

Because they are split between Energy independence, being green and NIMBY.

NIMBY usually trumps, for some reason.

of course...the politicians own the real estate itself

474 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:49:54pm

re: #456 jaunte

I think the greens believe in magical solutions, and aren't ready to accept the technology that we'll need to use to keep our economy running.

It is once again the constrained vision vs. the unconstrained. Very different mindsets at play. You can give them the same problem and each will arrive at very different solutions.

475 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:49:57pm

re: #471 azcon

There is no denying that Bush sucked up to the POS Saudis. We just have to get our leaders (both rep. and dem) out of that mindset. It's freaking disgusting. Just because someone holds the title of king, queen, prince etc. they are no better than you or me. They should not bow to anyone any more than what Obama did to the queen. Basically a little more than a nod of the head.

I would bow to Wayne Gretzky (the Great One) before bowing to anyone of these world leaders.

Joe Pesci

476 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:49:58pm

Dinner time!

477 Basho  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:50:33pm

re: #453 Bobibutu

Not me - I love our oil and have fought for it's development from the 60s to present.

Well, you're the wonderful exception. If people against what the Saudis stand for actually did something about it, we wouldn't be in this mess.

478 Taqyia2Me  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:50:34pm

Charles is quite correct in that the mfm will use this to paint the big zero as moderate and conservatives as whack jobs. It's a tough enough row to hoe to beat back this dem/lib/mfm insanity without giving them more easy money.

479 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:51:05pm

re: #459 Iron Fist

I've got it in my feet. It started comming on me about five years ago. At first, the doctor thought it was just my shoes, or just my going barefoot on concrete floors, or similar. They even did a morning bloodsugar test and I was at 105 which is a little high, but it is a far cry from diabetes. For the past couple of weeks I've been running 500-600. They've put me on an insulin now that is almost not for human use. It is very, very powerful (it really is marked "Not for ordinary use" on the label), and that has brought my sugars down rapidly. I've been on it almost a week, and things are looking much better for me than they were a couple of weeks ago.

Now if I can do something about all of the weight I've gained...

Well, I'm glad to hear a possible solution for you is in the works!
Hubby's condition was not diabetes induced - it developed from a spinal cord injury (disc cut into the spinal cord).

480 jorline  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:51:11pm

re: #448 pink freud

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

[Link: littlegreenfootballs.com...]

Thanks

481 snowcrash  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:51:22pm

Most oil sales throughout the world are designated in U. S. dollars. Most countries rely on oil imports and they are forced to maintain stockpiles of dollars in order to continue imports. This causes demand for USDs to remain high, regardless of economic conditions in the United States. Its all about the petrodollar and the american economy.

482 David Simon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:51:30pm

re: #424 Occasional Reader

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we wind up having to more or less bug out of that air base, and build a brand new one in Qatar (IIRC), precisely because of Saudi intransigence?

You're not wrong. Like I said up thread, they're a nominal ally. But what's the alternative?

483 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:52:12pm

re: #474 Sharmuta

It is once again the constrained vision vs. the unconstrained. Very different mindsets at play. You can give them the same problem and each will arrive at very different solutions.

I would also point out that those of the constrained vision have no problem with green technology so far as it's viable, it is those of the unconstrained that do not want to compromise in the short term for future long term advantage.

484 jwb7605  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:52:15pm

A charming female just invited me to watch a movie with her.
Good evening, all.

485 jorline  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:53:09pm

Hey Dasher...screw you and the horse you rode in on.

....and exited on!

486 avanti  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:53:20pm

re: #423 Charles

I think all American politicians are simply trying to tread water. Nobody is really working toward a genuine solution.

I think Obama might push Israel a bit harder about settlement expansion for example. He might try to appear more of a fair broker for peace, but that risks appearing to be anti Israel.
Yea, we'll probably tread water now that I've thought about it.

487 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:53:26pm

re: #459 Iron Fist

Aww- try to get back to doing some walking when you can. It's one of the best exercises for anyone.

488 ciaospirit  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:53:37pm

That was not a bow.

489 NonNativeTexan  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:53:37pm

I really do not care about the bowing. I genuinely have
a 12 round mind battle on whether it is common courtesy
or whether a point should be made when a female American
political figure covers her head in the presence of heads of
societies which require that.

490 razorbacker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:53:44pm

re: #447 Dianna

So why are we so paralyzed? There ought to be a pretty obvious alliance between the energy independence crowd and the greens. Yet those two parties are at daggers' drawn.

Think back to olden times. How much longer would the whales have lasted, had man continued to hunt them for their oil? But whaddayaknow, somebody in PA struck oil and kerosene became available. Cheaper than whale oil, and you didn't have to wander the world sticking whales to get it.

And, as long as we're making kerosene, might as well find something to do with all these other oil byproducts. Now what in the world can we do with this here 'gasoline'?

The energy independence crowd is interested in finding a way to shed entanglements to crappy third world hellholes just because they have oil. The Greens just want to run your life.

491 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:53:45pm

re: #426 albusteve

Cheers!

492 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:53:54pm

re: #482 David Simon

You're not wrong. Like I said up thread, they're a nominal ally. But what's the alternative?

I think we're agreeing. It is a thorny situation, and no US President has been in the position to tell the Saudis to simply f**k off.

But I thought that in purely protocol terms, the Obama bow was a new low. As Cognito (!) pointed out, it will be viewed in the Muslim world exactly the way many of us have seen it; as an explicit symbol of obeisance.

493 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:55:10pm

re: #488 ciaospirit

That was not a bow.

That's a lot of Lizards in disagreement with ya, Charles.

Whaddaya say, a poll?

494 Bob Dillon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:55:28pm

re: #477 Basho

Well, you're the wonderful exception. If people against what the Saudis stand for actually did something about it, we wouldn't be in this mess.

No I'm not. Anyone who has spent time in or near an oil patch across the US has the same attitude. It's our fucking congress that is the problem.

495 jorline  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:55:46pm

re: #485 jorline

Hey Dasher...screw you and the horse you rode in on.

....and exited on!

Did Dasher curtsy before leaving?

496 Lee Coller  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:55:58pm

re: #489 NonNativeTexan

I really do not care about the bowing. I genuinely have
a 12 round mind battle on whether it is common courtesy
or whether a point should be made when a female American
political figure covers her head in the presence of heads of
societies which require that.

That's a good point, and there's always a tradeoff with "being diplomatic" and calling someone out on the carpet. The question really becomes how badly we need these allies. In the Saudi's case, we shouldn't be afraid of them, I think we have much more influence over them than they have over us. Remember, Al Qaeda hates the Saudi Monarchy.

497 freetoken  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:55:58pm

re: #372 Bagua

The Saudis would still sell their Oil, but at very low prices.

This is a very complex issue because the price of oil is not purely set by traders in a free market. As is usual, price is set on the margin (and as you've pointed out, we've seen that recently with recession causing reduced demand worldwide, and the plummeting of oil prices.)

However, the curve ball, as I understand it, is the oil depletion means that the oil companies must continually do exploration, which costs money, and to develop lower quality resources into product requires investments in highly complex production schemes (such as with the Canadian tar sands.)

Thus the supply of oil is continually decreasing unless one explores or tries new methods, all of which are costly. This indeed is the Peak-Oil-ers wet dream... the never ending cycle of ever increasing costs on ever declining production.

On top of all of this is the probability that the world will not want to do what the US may want... Low oil prices that you project would arise out of a concerted US effort of reducing import oil demand simply means other countries (less wealthy than the US) could finally afford to import Saudi oil. India is the classic case.

Not saying we (the US) should not go all out in moving away from imported oil... that has been my theme I've preached here since I joined LGF... just that I don't believe that low oil price is a given even if the US moves strongly in the desired direction (of moving off of imported oil.)

498 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:56:52pm

Whether or not it was a bow, the Saudis have certainly been giving it to us up the stern for way too long.

499 jorline  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:57:23pm

bbl

500 razorbacker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:57:28pm

re: #463 HDrepub

The actual production of power is cheaper, but the amount of debt required to construct a plant drives the cost up over a long term.
A few utilities have gone bankrupt over nuclear power construction debt.
Aubrey Wagner, one time chairman of the Tennessee Valley Authority was the person who said nuke power would be too cheap to meter. Note that TVA scrapped a large portion of his overly ambitious construction of nuke power plants. I have nothing against nuke power, it's just not the panacea it's perceived to be by many.

You don't have to tell me. Look up Arkansas Nuclear One, and read about how one state's attempt to produce energy lead to that state's citizens being forced to subsidize other state's power due to a power compact they'd entered into.

Still a sore point.

501 HDrepub  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:57:46pm

re: #467 Hengineer

Only because they've been regulated to the point of oblivion.

I see you get it too. Most everything in this country is over-regulated, which drives the cost out the roof.

502 Basho  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:57:47pm

I don't care how something is viewed in the muslim world. Everything is either a sign of weakness or an insult. Those people need some positive-thinking books airdropped en masse throughout the middle east. That'll do a lot of good.

503 The Shadow Do  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:58:04pm

re: #430 Opinionated

When he was a child living in an Islamic country, who would you think Obama would respect more, the President of the United States or the Saudi King?

Woa! That is a little mind arresting.

504 ciaospirit  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:58:11pm

re: #493 Taqiyyotomist

That's a lot of Lizards in disagreement with ya, Charles.

Whaddaya say, a poll?

It's a free country. At least for now.

505 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:58:17pm

I kissed a Saudi girl's feet once. She wasn't royalty or anything, just really kinky.

///only partly true

506 NY Nana  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:58:28pm

re: #440 NYCHardhat

Does anyone have a link to annefrance?

You called?

507 mich-again  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:58:36pm

re: #417 Bagua

$20 a barrel would be a high estimate if we did the things we should.

Crash the price by creating a glut. A coupe ideas to contribute to that. Go to a 4-day school week (longer days) and 4-day per week US Mail (which is primarily junk) delivery.

We won't get there fast enough by tweaking machines. We need big things fast.

508 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:58:39pm

Water Runner Robot


Developing a robot which can run across the surface of water in a fashion similar to the Basiliscus basiliscus and other water-running lizards.


Liveleak Video
509 Lee Coller  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:58:48pm

re: #505 Slumbering Behemoth

I kissed a Saudi girl's feet once. She wasn't royalty or anything, just really kinky.

///only partly true

I'm not sure I want to know which part is true.

510 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:59:05pm

What about the well documented Bush hand holding with King Abdullah?

511 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:59:27pm

re: #492 Occasional Reader

I think we're agreeing. It is a thorny situation, and no US President has been in the position to tell the Saudis to simply f**k off.

But I thought that in purely protocol terms, the Obama bow was a new low. As Cognito (!) pointed out, it will be viewed in the Muslim world exactly the way many of us have seen it; as an explicit symbol of obeisance.

I disagree, an equally rare occasion as your agreement with Cognito. This is not a new low, it's just another point on a long continuum of obeisance, and the Muslim world has not reacted at all as far as I've been able to tell. (I've been checking.)

The people who are most upset are American right-wingers.

512 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:59:36pm

I personally believe that the "bowing" should depend on whose house you are in.

His house? Bow to him.
Your house? He bows to you.
Neutral house? Say howdy.

But, hell; I'm as dumb as a sack of hammers.

513 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:59:43pm

re: #509 Lee Coller

Everything but the Saudi part.

514 Digital Display  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 6:59:44pm

Let's say George Washington after the war visited England and held court with King George..His mortal enemy..
Do you think he would have bowed?
I kind of think he would.

515 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:00:23pm

re: #501 HDrepub

I see you get it too. Most everything in this country is over-regulated, which drives the cost out the roof.

That's the funny thing too, its very NIMBY- oriented, with news-story sensationalism attached.

Remember a while back that Florida nuclear plant that shut down? Shepherd Smith (prick) was trying to get more out of a story that just wasn't there. He was asking a spokesperson "omg what happened omg what happened?" The spokesperson was like "Dude, the automation shut down the plant, like it was supposed to. This is a non-story" And Shepherd kept poking and prodding to get a story just for ratings.

516 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:01:06pm

re: #511 Charles

I disagree, an equally rare occasion as your agreement with Cognito. This is not a new low, it's just another point on a long continuum of obeisance, and the Muslim world has not reacted at all as far as I've been able to tell. (I've been checking.)

The people who are most upset are American right-wingers.

Our world hasn't reacted either, as far as I can tell there hasn't been ANY story on Fox, CNN, or MSNBC

517 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:01:15pm

re: #511 Charles

The people who are most upset are American right-wingers.

Then I guess that's what I am.

(Odd, since I'm a Democrat, but, whatever.)

518 little boomer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:01:24pm

re: #514 HoosierHoops

Let's say George Washington after the war visited England and held court with King George..His mortal enemy..
Do you think he would have bowed?
I kind of think he would.

John Adams was the first ambassador to George III. Yes he bowed at the first meeting-multiple times.

519 M. Bensson-Levi  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:01:40pm

Howdy All,

Have to call BS on equating Bush's, and Obama's, actions. There is a world of difference between accommodating an individual that is placing a chain like device around one's neck, and bowing deeply, with bended knee to a Sovereign. To the arab, and Islamic world, this gesture carries great meaning, intended, or not.

Obviously, this does not justify impeachment, nor even a call for it, but it is a most unseemly action for any POTUS. Any America, for that matter, as far as I'm concerned.

Disgraceful? Almost, but We, the People, are not so easily disgraced.

Obama, brings whatever shame devolves from this action only on himself.
He's obviously a damned fool, remarkably ignorant, and uncultured.

He is the only man ever to have lived, to make Jimmy Carter seem a sage, by comparison.

520 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:02:09pm

Kissing and holding hands.

Just as disgusting if not more so than a bow.

521 Gus  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:02:28pm

President Obama bowing to the Saudi King is a non issue and reflect a minor error in protocol. There's no doubt he will be repeating that mistake again -- one would think.

That being said President Bush isn't bowing in the video and simply leaning over to receive a medal. However, President Bush did indeed "bow" by continuing America's obeisance to the Saudis since the discovery of oil in the Mid-East region. This included some questionable actions following the discovery of unofficial Saudi involvement with 911 hijackers. If this involved the Executive Branch is unknown to me.

Obama will continue this obeisance to the Saudis and in effect continue the virtual bowing of America to the Arabs in the face of questionable ties in the region and a terrible human rights record.

522 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:02:28pm

re: #513 Slumbering Behemoth

Yup, I'm freaky.

523 The Shadow Do  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:02:29pm

re: #463 HDrepub

The actual production of power is cheaper, but the amount of debt required to construct a plant drives the cost up over a long term.
A few utilities have gone bankrupt over nuclear power construction debt.
Aubrey Wagner, one time chairman of the Tennessee Valley Authority was the person who said nuke power would be too cheap to meter. Note that TVA scrapped a large portion of his overly ambitious construction of nuke power plants. I have nothing against nuke power, it's just not the panacea it's perceived to be by many.

I'm not sure how accurate that is. I work closely with a utility that built a nuke with the assumption it would take 20 or more years to recover the investment. It happened in less than ten and is now a huge money maker.

524 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:02:49pm

re: #517 Occasional Reader

Then I guess that's what I am.

(Odd, since I'm a Democrat, but, whatever.)

Well, I'm upset too -- but only in the sense that I'm always upset when an American President defers to these Neanderthals.

Which means every American president.

525 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:03:08pm

re: #519 M. Bensson-Levi

Howdy All,

Have to call BS on equating Bush's, and Obama's, actions. There is a world of difference between accommodating an individual that is placing a chain like device around one's neck, and bowing deeply, with bended knee to a Sovereign. To the arab, and Islamic world, this gesture carries great meaning, intended, or not.

Obviously, this does not justify impeachment, nor even a call for it, but it is a most unseemly action for any POTUS. Any America, for that matter, as far as I'm concerned.

Disgraceful? Almost, but We, the People, are not so easily disgraced.

Obama, brings whatever shame devolves from this action only on himself.
He's obviously a damned fool, remarkably ignorant, and uncultured.

He is the only man ever to have lived, to make Jimmy Carter seem a sage, by comparison.

But do you get Charles' point that Bush shouldn't have cared about receiving a medal from the Saudis? He's still being all buddy-buddy chum-pals with a despotic tyrant who rules with a religious iron fist.

526 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:03:21pm

KISSING AND HOLDING HANDS!

Spin that.

527 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:03:30pm

re: #520 Sharmuta

I'm still waiting to hear you weigh in on the 'feet' thing.
///

528 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:03:57pm

Goodnight Lizards.

I still think this is threadworthy, to understate it:
al-Qaeda Magazine Based In United States
Flopping Aces

529 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:04:06pm

re: #524 Charles

Get ready to get some very irate emails from some very angry neanderthals.

530 The Shadow Do  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:04:09pm

re: #471 azcon

There is no denying that Bush sucked up to the POS Saudis. We just have to get our leaders (both rep. and dem) out of that mindset. It's freaking disgusting. Just because someone holds the title of king, queen, prince etc. they are no better than you or me. They should not bow to anyone any more than what Obama did to the queen. Basically a little more than a nod of the head.

I would bow to Wayne Gretzky (the Great One) before bowing to anyone of these world leaders.

Or Lance Armstrong.

531 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:04:11pm

re: #527 Slumbering Behemoth

I'm still waiting to hear you weigh in on the 'feet' thing.
///

I didn't take you for one who kisses and tells. Last time you see my feet, mister! ;)

532 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:04:46pm

re: #518 little boomer

John Adams was the first ambassador to George III. Yes he bowed at the first meeting-multiple times.

If ya want to see it reenacted rent John Adams
A wonderful wonderful series.

533 jaunte  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:05:03pm

re: #526 Sharmuta

I've seen the spin on the hand-holding: 'Bush is making him hold his left hand.'

534 Lee Coller  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:05:06pm

re: #521 Gus 802

President Obama bowing to the Saudi King is a non issue and reflect a minor error in protocol. There's no doubt he will be repeating that mistake again -- one would think.

Actually its not an error in protocol, its errors in protocols that make statements. Were the Saudi Kingdom a place where women were respected and there was freedom of religion, such protocol would be appropriate. In this case, a violation of protocol is what make news and makes a statement.

Had Obama refused to bow it would have sent a message to the Saudi's that things have changed. I guess in the case of the Saudi's, nothing has changed as far as Obama is concerned.

535 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:05:28pm

re: #526 Sharmuta

KISSING AND HOLDING HANDS!

Spin that.

That's some man-love right there!
Makes Bush's anti-gay marriage thing seem a bit contradictory.

/s

536 Sosigado  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:05:28pm

I find the right-winger label rather disconcerting. That used to be almost exclusively a leftist pejorative. Maybe I'm (once again) missing the context.

537 David Simon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:05:32pm

re: #492 Occasional Reader

I think we're agreeing. It is a thorny situation, and no US President has been in the position to tell the Saudis to simply f**k off.

But I thought that in purely protocol terms, the Obama bow was a new low. As Cognito (!) pointed out, it will be viewed in the Muslim world exactly the way many of us have seen it; as an explicit symbol of obeisance.

We are agreeing to a point. Bush held hands and danced (literally) with the House of Saud. Even after the royal family booted us off their air base, they (quietly) "allowed" us to leave troops behind to advise them. We do what we do because they have so much oil. We don't have a choice right now. It's realpolitick.

538 little boomer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:05:54pm

re: #532 unrealizedviewpoint

If ya want to see it reenacted rent John Adams
A wonderful wonderful series.

It's on my Netflix queue.

539 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:06:03pm

re: #511 Charles

I disagree, an equally rare occasion as your agreement with Cognito. This is not a new low, it's just another point on a long continuum of obeisance, and the Muslim world has not reacted at all as far as I've been able to tell. (I've been checking.)

The people who are most upset are American right-wingers.

And I am an American right-winger, who is very upset with the O's deep bow.
But I was just as upset with Bush extending an invitation to the Saudis to come to Crawford, and the whole hand-holding thing was disgusting beyond words.

And you are correct, this is just another point on a long continuum of deference to these people.

540 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:06:21pm

re: #531 Sharmuta

Generally I am not, but I couldn't resist with this topic.

So, no more foot rubs for you?
//

541 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:06:32pm
542 pink freud  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:06:39pm

re: #526 Sharmuta

Sharm, it just plays differently. 0bama is such a prissy little beta-male metrosexual, nothing like the stereotypical American male (as Bush is), that it just hits you in the gut to see it (unlike seeing Bush in your examples).

It appears to be grovelling. Not so with Bush, even holding hands -- not grovelling.

543 brookly red  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:06:56pm

re: #528 Taqiyyotomist

wtf?

544 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:07:21pm
545 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:07:27pm

re: #423 Charles

I think all American politicians are simply trying to tread water. Nobody is really working toward a genuine solution.

Swimming against the current?/

546 HDrepub  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:07:32pm

re: #523 The Shadow Do

I'm not sure how accurate that is. I work closely with a utility that built a nuke with the assumption it would take 20 or more years to recover the investment. It happened in less than ten and is now a huge money maker.

My opinion doesn't hold true in every case, I'll be the first to admit.
What size is the plant, in MWs? The reason I ask is it seems to be the really big ones that turn out to be duds sometimes.

547 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:07:52pm

re: #545 Spare O'Lake

Swimming against the current?/

treading water to get elected and maintain their power base in washington.

548 Digital Display  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:08:24pm

It would send a tingle up my leg if I could hold a King's hand.
/

549 avanti  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:08:40pm

I've been watching for a Obama bow story to show up off in the MSN, and this is the first hit, but wrong bow.

bow.

550 yochanan  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:09:03pm

re: #423 Charles

I think all American politicians are simply trying to tread water. Nobody is really working toward a genuine solution.

well i doubt there is a genuine solution that any president will support.

seems the only solution would for one side or the other to win.

551 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:09:21pm

re: #548 HoosierHoops

It would send a tingle up my leg if I could hold a King's hand.
/

If I could piss on a Presidents' shoes

/

552 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:09:44pm

re: #542 pink freud

I'm disgusted by both.

553 The Shadow Do  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:10:19pm

re: #518 little boomer

John Adams was the first ambassador to George III. Yes he bowed at the first meeting-multiple times.

For which, along with other impressions he left, was regarded as a monarchist. John was not at all opposed to an American king.

Now Jefferson, on the other hand....

554 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:10:36pm

Anyone link to this yet?

555 pink freud  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:10:40pm

re: #552 Sharmuta

I'm disgusted by both.

So'm I. Just different types of disgust.

556 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:11:09pm

re: #520 Sharmuta

Kissing and holding hands.

Just as disgusting if not more so than a bow.

Oh, golly. My X could tell some tales about those customs.

557 nyc redneck  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:11:30pm

re: #520 Sharmuta

Kissing and holding hands.

Just as disgusting if not more so than a bow.

those are mutual activities of 'friendship"

the bowing can only be interpreted as subservience.
nothing else.

558 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:11:45pm

re: #556 MandyManners

Oh, golly. My X could tell some tales about those customs.

that why he's your ex?

/

559 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:12:04pm

Except the saudis are not our friends.

560 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:12:51pm

re: #557 nyc redneck

those are mutual activities of 'friendship"

the bowing can only be interpreted as subservience.
nothing else.

Well, I guess. Although I don't usually kiss my friends on the lips.

561 mad mullah  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:13:39pm

Bush has done plenty of things that I didn't like. I cringe every time I see that photo of him holding hands with the Saudi ruler, as if they were gay lovers. That's quite ironic, considering how gays are treated in extremist Islamic countries like that.

Regardless of what Bush has done that I object to, that won't hinder me from criticizing Obama for his actions. I do see a difference in accepting a medal from somebody and bowing to that same person. Not taking the medal would be seen as disrespectful, and while I believe that Saudi Arabia is a nasty shithole, they were supposedly allied with us in the War against Terror, now known as the Overseas Contingency Operation, thanks to Obama. Is there any video footage of Bush first meeting the Saudi leaders? I wonder how Bush greeted them or if he bowed.

On a very related issue, Obama did not bow to the Queen of England. He has also returned a bust of Churchill which was on loan from the UK govt in the oval office (received after 9-11) and he has dissed Gordon Brown when he visited the US by not granting the usual courtesy given to a visiting head of state, especially by such an important ally as England. Perhaps Obama would have taken the time out of his busy schedule if the Taliban had visited or the President of Iran.

This is the video of Obama not bowing to the Queen of England.

Youtube Video

In my opinion, it's not just about Obama bowing to the Saudis and Obama not bowing to the Queen of England. It is a whole combination of related things that Obama does and does not do that leads me to question his motives and loyalties.

562 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:13:45pm

re: #559 Sharmuta

Except the saudis are not our friends.

Good point. I guess I should have said "I don't usually kiss my mortal enemies who are trying to murder me because I don't share their religion on the lips."

563 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:14:08pm

re: #559 Sharmuta

Shit, Charles has been lying to us all along. Bet he works for the Illuminaughty.
////

564 yesandno  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:14:14pm

re: #25 modnar

Is this really comparable to Obama? Obama just straight-up bowed. In this video Bush is receiving some kind of medallion necklace. It's quite common for people bow so the person awarding the honor can get it over their head and around the neck. Unless the person awarding the gift is Yao Ming or something.

No...Obama genuflected....altogether different.

/

565 Archimedes  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:14:29pm

King? Who made you king, then? I didn't vote for you.

You don't vote for a king!

How'd you become king, then?

The lady of the lake clad in the shimmeringest of white samite.

etc. etc. :~D

566 razorbacker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:14:48pm

re: #559 Sharmuta

Except the saudis are not our friends.

My business dealings with middle eastern fellows indicates that they call everybody with which they do business 'my friend'. When they call you 'my dear, good friend' be especially wary. That means they intend to screw you, and hope to snow you so well that you don't notice.

567 jaunte  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:14:57pm

re: #559 Sharmuta

Except the saudis are not our friends.

Remember this?

Youtube Video
568 The Shadow Do  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:15:01pm

re: #546 HDrepub

My opinion doesn't hold true in every case, I'll be the first to admit.
What size is the plant, in MWs? The reason I ask is it seems to be the really big ones that turn out to be duds sometimes.

2 units, 2300MW. It's a big boy all right.

569 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:15:31pm

re: #559 Sharmuta

But, the sell us petroleum at prices clearly based on...
But, they treat all of their citizens...
But, they treat everyone as...

Oh. You're right.

570 NonNativeTexan  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:15:39pm

re: #526 Sharmuta

KISSING AND HOLDING HANDS!

Spin that.

Be honest though, the spin was equating Bush leaning down
to accept a medal on his neck with a bow.

571 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:15:46pm

re: #565 Archimedes

King? Who made you king, then? I didn't vote for you.

You don't vote for a king!

How'd you become king, then?

The lady of the lake clad in the shimmeringest of white samite.

etc. etc. :~D

And now for our monty python moment for the thread.

572 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:15:48pm

re: #556 MandyManners

Oh, golly. My X could tell some tales about those customs.

Just like a paperback novel?

573 jcm  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:15:54pm

re: #548 HoosierHoops

It would send a tingle up my leg if I could hold a King's hand.
/

Jamie King I presume?

574 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:16:15pm

I'm just going to go for now. I suspect my stalkers are driving their cars around the block repeatedly just to show me what for. In the end, it doesn't matter what president is doing what with the saudis. If you want to quit feeding the beast, quit driving so much.

575 cppwizard  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:16:22pm

Not a bow. I call Shenanigans.

576 Gus  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:16:22pm

re: #559 Sharmuta

Except the saudis are not our friends.

20 billion dollar of US Military Aid went to Saudi Arabia in 2007 alone. There's a also a massive US naval presence in the region effectively providing free security for the Saudis and other regional oil producing countries.

577 NY Nana  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:17:13pm

re: #520 Sharmuta

How about this?

578 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:17:19pm

re: #574 Sharmuta

I'm just going to go for now. I suspect my stalkers are driving their cars around the block repeatedly just to show me what for. In the end, it doesn't matter what president is doing what with the saudis. If you want to quit feeding the beast, quit driving so much.

crap she caught me

579 scrubjay  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:17:31pm

I am just as grossed-out by Bush's bowing as Obama's. To hell with their friggen oil. We should have been drilling our own oil and mining our own coal and developing nuclear power for all stationary energy needs long ago. I invoke the name of Palin, the goddess of domestic energy.

580 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:17:49pm

re: #557 nyc redneck

those are mutual activities of 'friendship"

the bowing can only be interpreted as subservience.
nothing else.

Yep. Not that I'm not disgustipated by the "friendship", too, but the symbolism is very different.

581 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:17:51pm

Sleepers coming out of the woodwork.

582 M. Bensson-Levi  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:17:55pm

Charles,

Regarding Bush, and the Saudis, Bush was a complete horse's ass, groomed to be so by Daddy Bush's long, and lucrative association with the Magic Kingdom. He was lead around by the nose, willingly or not, time and again, and it may be justly said that he FIGURATIVELY bowed down to the Saudis, but he did not, publicly, ever bow to the Saudi King, as did Obama. To use this particular episode to state that he ACTUALLY did so, is, I believe, an uncharacteristic error on your part.

We all make 'em, now and then.

583 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:18:02pm

re: #567 jaunte

Holy carp! Did the band really play that tune?

584 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:18:22pm

re: #581 Charles

Sleepers coming out of the woodwork.

solution? Burn the woodwork!

585 jaunte  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:18:24pm

re: #583 Slumbering Behemoth

Yes, it was quite a sensation at the time.

586 mich-again  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:18:43pm

re: #511 Charles

The people who are most upset are American right-wingers.

Them and the latest outrage du jour.

587 jcm  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:18:54pm

re: #584 Hengineer

solution? Burn the woodwork!

With Oil!

/;-P

588 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:19:08pm

re: #585 jaunte

Oh, that is just fucking awesome!

589 Hengineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:19:28pm

re: #587 jcm

With Oil!

/;-P

what else is there?

/

590 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:19:32pm

re: #574 Sharmuta

Shar? I do not have a choice.

Please understand... none of my driving is by choice.

I have to go.

Do not appreciate people accusing me of "feeding the beast".

591 Adrenalyn  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:19:57pm

Bush appears to be in Saudi Arabia in this clip
seems to me 0bama was in England when he bowed

as for Bush holding the old guys hand
he was steadying the old bugger, as he can barely walk

and since when is tilting your body to receive a medal constituting anything subservient of Bush ?

so let me see, if I am a busty waitress and a male, tall and male, customer leans over to whisper in my ear, he is "bowing"

no, we should not bash Bush over "this" one episode
as others ahve said, plenty to bash him for
BUT

HE IS NO LONGER POTUS
what he did means nothing

0bama is POTUS, what he does, means something

it can't get any simpler than that

592 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:20:05pm

re: #582 M. Bensson-Levi

Charles,

Regarding Bush, and the Saudis, Bush was a complete horse's ass, groomed to be so by Daddy Bush's long, and lucrative association with the Magic Kingdom. He was lead around by the nose, willingly or not, time and again, and it may be justly said that he FIGURATIVELY bowed down to the Saudis, but he did not, publicly, ever bow to the Saudi King, as did Obama. To use this particular episode to state that he ACTUALLY did so, is, I believe, an uncharacteristic error on your part.

We all make 'em, now and then.

Well, you go ahead and believe that a bow is not a bow, because he's accepting a medal from Abdullah.

Because that's so much better than what Barack Obama did.

593 dormain  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:20:07pm

I don't like Bush "bowing" here either but it is demonstrably different to what Obama was doing - Obama was genuflecting in subservience, not bending to enable a feeble old man to put a medal around his neck.

594 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:20:22pm
595 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:20:35pm

re: #24 zombie

If you ever doubted that it's all about money, our deference to these primitive tribal warriors should open your eyes.

Do American presidents bow to the chief of the Yanomamo tribe in Brazil? No. And why not? Because they don't have any money.

Rich people can get away with anything, especially on the international stage.

I bet the Yanomamo chief is a much nicer person.

596 Arbalest  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:20:38pm

I see a considerable difference between the way George Bush bowed (stand formally, lean over so Abdullah, with his chubby arms raised, could hang a medal on him), and the way Barak Obama bowed (a greeting).

I dislike the Saudis, particularly the clergy and the government, but I can see the necessity of making nice with them, and accepting a medal. I also see the reciprocity in the following actions in the clip; George Bush bowed, but he received a higher honor, the recognition and admiration of a foreign ruler, implicitly an honor few receive.

But President Obama seems to have walked up to a man (has he ever met this man before?), a king, and genuflected (bow, curtsey, whatever) in greeting. No reciprocity, no clear indication that equals are greeting each other. The imagery reminds me of a cartoon, from an Egyptian paper I think.

I see this as a break-even of Bush, and a poor reflection on Obama, for a number of reasons, and for the US in general.

597 yesandno  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:20:57pm

re: #272 Taqiyyotomist

Did the Queen of England bow before this man?

Umm.....she's a woman....do you think she would get an audience?

598 Basho  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:21:04pm

re: #593 dormain

Obama was genuflecting in subservience

Seriously... no sane person is actually buying that.

599 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:21:44pm

re: #524 Charles

Well, I'm upset too -- but only in the sense that I'm always upset when an American President defers to these Neanderthals.

Which means every American president.

Every Living...

Teddy Roosevelt never did this ....

600 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:22:06pm

re: #594 Iron Fist

Yeah, it could be a lot worse. I've got a friend who is just ate up with neuropathy from an adverse reaction to some drug (an antibiotic, IIRC). He's got in his hands as well as his feet. Sometimes things are broke beyond fixing. I believe that I will have nerve pain in my feet until the day I die. My late Sensei was ate up by diabetes. They were going to take his lower loegs, but he elected to discontinue kidney dialysis. It was hard for all of us, for Sensei had touched a lot of lives in his time on earth. I was supposed to take up the Olkinawan weapons that we teach at the dojo, but my neuropathy has made that much more difficult.

Oh, has your husband tried Lyrica? If he hasn't it might help him. It doesn't make my pain go away, but it does keep it down into a lever that I can function with. I donk know if it'll help him, but it might.

Can't for job reasons.

601 nyc redneck  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:22:43pm

re: #559 Sharmuta

Except the saudis are not our friends.

of course they are not our friends but pres, bush's greeting of the king is much more standard accepted protocol btw heads of state,
than o dashing like a gazelle to to prostrate himself before the king.
it was deeply disgusting to me, given what we know abt, o.

602 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:22:43pm

re: #585 jaunte

That's my favorite score from those films.

Youtube Video
603 snowcrash  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:22:46pm

Are they sleepers or displaced lounge lizards?

604 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:23:32pm

re: #329 freetoken

Freetoken -

I would rather a US President "Bow in Respect" to a Japanese Emperor than the "King" of "Saudi" Arabia. My Scorecard?

1. Forgetting the "Unpleasantness" between the US and Japan - a/k/a WW II,
the arguably toughest infantrymen in the US Army during WWII were the 442nd "Nisei" Division in Europe.

2. Japan - as a nation - has been a force for modernity in Asia since the 1870's, at times unfortunately, copying the worst practices of "Western Powers" - even Chiang Kai Shek & Mao understood this. That Chinese and Japanese national aims conflicted is a pity beyond the war casualties. The end of the war saw them BOTH Poor and in Rags - retarding the advance of East Asia for about 25 years in the case of Japan and 40 to 45 years in the case of China. In between, KOREA was their Mutual Sin - the Japanese - Pre- 1945, the Chinese Post- 1950.

3. Since 1945 (1932 Actually) - The "Saudis" as a Nation have hardly advanced "One Whit." Their Oil Money has allowed them to BUY modern technology. AND - the next time you go to a store other than a Gas Station, try and find ANYTHING marked "Made in Saudi Arabia" - YOU, I or ANYONE ELSE CANNOT. Go to a Library and try to find a book written by a "Saudi" author, YOU, I or ANYONE ELSE CANNOT. Islamic Calendar Clocks, by the way are MADE IN CHINA - have seen and used one from an abandoned apartment before giving it as a "gag" gift.

4. Little Israel, on the other hand, has become the biggest trusted producer of generic drugs (TEVA). The perfecter of Computer Chips and Operating Systems - (Pentium/Windows XP). And ON and ON - including, from the time of my youth - PLANTING TREES!

That is all, for now.

-S-

605 Randall Gross  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:24:03pm

re: #603 snowcrash

Are they sleepers or displaced lounge lizards?

Scrabbling to exist in a new ecological niche :)

606 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:25:07pm

re: #574 Sharmuta

I'm just going to go for now. I suspect my stalkers are driving their cars around the block repeatedly just to show me what for. In the end, it doesn't matter what president is doing what with the saudis. If you want to quit feeding the beast, quit driving so much.

America is finished without the automobile.
Fuck the beast.
*puts the pedal to the metal*

607 sarr  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:25:14pm

Bending vs Bowing

"Bending" you head and shoulders down so someone can hang something around you neck vs "bowing" your head, shoulders and right knee to someone as a sign of whatever ( i won't go there) are worlds apart. Not say either is right in this case - just worlds apart.

608 David Simon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:25:26pm

re: #576 Gus 802

20 billion dollar of US Military Aid

I think you mean military sales.

609 hous bin pharteen  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:25:31pm

How do we fix it? No one wants oil fields in this country or off shore. You have been bowing to the King for years, so get over it.

610 Gus  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:26:05pm

re: #598 Basho

Seriously... no sane person is actually buying that.

The whole event is being blown out of proportion. It's nitpicking on a trivial event that should be disregarded especially if one consider the historical obeisance the USA shows to the Saudis.

There are more serious issues that should be focused on. Turning this into a golf game in which every move or action by Obama is analyzed and mixed in with innuendo serves no purpose.

611 pink freud  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:26:33pm

This post has made the top right of the page at memeorandum.

612 HDrepub  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:27:05pm

re: #568 The Shadow Do

2 units, 2300MW. It's a big boy all right.

Yup, those are big boys alright. As I said before I worked in the electric power industry for thirty years, but I don't pretend to be an expert, I just relate to what I read in the industry publications over the years. Of course there are successful nuke plants, and failures as well, and the same goes for coal. The point I've always tried to make on LGF is we don't produce much power with oil, and building a lot of new anything is not going to matter much with our oil usage, until we have the technology to produce an electric vehicle with the range for the long haul. Which do you build first? You can't build expensive new generating plants with only an anticipation for a market that may or not materialize.

613 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:27:20pm

re: #601 nyc redneck

of course they are not our friends but pres, bush's greeting of the king is much more standard accepted protocol btw heads of state,
than o dashing like a gazelle to to prostrate himself before the king.
it was deeply disgusting to me, given what we know abt, o.

I also thought he sort of sprinted over there.
But I honestly had to step back and ask if I weren't just reading that into the video, because I so do not like the O.

614 The Shadow Do  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:27:21pm

My take -
Pissed at Bush
Disgusted with Obama

That is all.

615 NY Nana  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:27:39pm

re: #557 nyc redneck

For you re annefrance....

616 voluble  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:27:41pm

Wow. This picture is the most misleading thing I have seen on the right side of the blogosphere in quite a while. I didn't realize the Saudi had a medal in his hands and wouldn't have known it had I not read the comments. If your eyesight is as bad as mine it would be easy to be mislead.

You might want to fix the caption Charles. This type of thing is beneath you.

617 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:27:42pm

re: #610 Gus 802

The whole event is being blown out of proportion. It's nitpicking on a trivial event that should be disregarded especially if one consider the historical obeisance the USA shows to the Saudis.

There are more serious issues that should be focused on. Turning this into a golf game in which every move or action by Obama is analyzed and mixed in with innuendo serves no purpose.

The last thing we need right now is a sense of perspective./

618 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:27:47pm

re: #83 Sharmuta

Intellectual dishonesty is unbecoming. I am disgusted any American President would bow to a Saud, but it's not an impeachable offense. Anyone who suggests otherwise needs to read up on the history of impeachment, including the British use, which is where the Constitutional use derived.

Having watched first the Great Lewinsky Scandal unfold, then sat through eight years of watching left-leaning Americans hatch fruitless plans to impeach Bush, now watching right-leaning Americans starting up fruitless plans to impeach Obama--folks, we need to stop doing this. One of our greatest traditions is peaceful transfer of power between administrations. That's going to become much harder if we start treating impeachment like the equivalent of a vote of no confidence.

619 M. Bensson-Levi  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:27:53pm

re: #525 Hengineer

But do you get Charles' point that Bush shouldn't have cared about receiving a medal from the Saudis? He's still being all buddy-buddy chum-pals with a despotic tyrant who rules with a religious iron fist.

Absolutely. Bush, vis a vis the Saudis (I believe that this is the first time that I've ever written that silly fwnch fwaze) was, and no doubt remains, a horse's ass, but he never publicly bowed to the Saudi King, as Charles says he did, in this video. That's all.

620 NonNativeTexan  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:28:01pm

re: #603 snowcrash

Are they sleepers or displaced lounge lizards?

Don't care either way. I enjoy reading opinions from lizards I
haven't read before. We should encourage dialog and not mock.

621 Adrenalyn  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:28:04pm

re: #609 hous bin pharteen

How do we fix it?

simple, at least for starters

stop bashing Bush with the left !

he is NOT President any more for cripes sake

nothing good is going to happen as long as the left gets "help" from our side (even if the "help" is accidental or unintentional)

622 Basho  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:28:18pm

re: #610 Gus 802

The whole event is being blown out of proportion. It's nitpicking on a trivial event that should be disregarded especially if one consider the historical obeisance the USA shows to the Saudis.

There are more serious issues that should be focused on. Turning this into a golf game in which every move or action by Obama is analyzed and mixed in with innuendo serves no purpose.

Amen.

623 Gus  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:28:21pm

re: #608 David Simon

I think you mean military sales.

OK, arms deal/sales. The military presence in the Gulf is essentially "aid."

624 razorbacker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:28:22pm

Been fun, but I must go for now.

See y'all later, unless my third girlfriend's parting wish comes true and I drop dead and rot.

*charming young lady in so many ways. Bucktoothed, though. Poor thing could eat corn on the cob through a picket fence. NTTAWWT.*

625 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:28:39pm

re: #610 Gus 802

It's like the nirth certifikat thing. Big waste of time chasing rabbits down endless holes.

626 mich-again  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:28:49pm

If you freeze the video on the medallion and count the points on the star it is a heptogram. First used as a symbol in the Kabbalah. Ha.

627 Gus  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:29:42pm

re: #625 Slumbering Behemoth

It's like the nirth certifikat thing. Big waste of time chasing rabbits down endless holes.

And since no one is listening it's like a dog chasing its tail.

628 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:29:55pm

re: #615 NY Nana

For you re annefrance....

Aw, heck!
I wanted to do a "Hall of Flame" in Vol 2 where I listed everyone who dinged DOWN that post, but I can't copy the names of the dingers. Heck.

629 Only The Lurker Knows  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:30:01pm

Just new to the this thread. Charles you got a down ding. Bush DID NOT BOW to the saudi king. He leaned over to allow him to hang the medal on him. Nothing more. To say that President Bush bowed is factually false.

Let the cards fall were they may

630 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:30:09pm

re: #616 voluble

It's not a picture, it's a video, click on it. Duh.

631 Basho  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:30:10pm

re: #627 Gus 802

And since no one is listening it's like a dog chasing its tail.

Except that fun to watch...

632 Walter L. Newton  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:30:30pm

re: #616 voluble

Wow. This picture is the most misleading thing I have seen on the right side of the blogosphere in quite a while. I didn't realize the Saudi had a medal in his hands and wouldn't have known it had I not read the comments. If your eyesight is as bad as mine it would be easy to be mislead.

You might want to fix the caption Charles. This type of thing is beneath you.

Well, aren't you a busy little commenter. What hole did you come out of?

633 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:30:32pm

re: #611 pink freud

This post has made the top right of the page at memeorandum.

What do you mean by that?

634 Gus  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:30:54pm

re: #631 Basho

Except that fun to watch...

Especially once they grab a hold of their tail and "go for it." That's when the spinning gets serious. //

635 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:31:09pm

This thread is a microcosm of the reason why this country is in such a mess.

Way too many people treat politics like sports. We have to root for our team and scream insults at the other side, no matter what the facts say.

"Kill the ump!"

Barack Obama was just doing what's been expected of every American president, since oil was discovered under the sand of the Persian Peninsula. When you scream that Obama should be impeached, and his bow was worse than the bowing and scraping of every other American president, you're just playing into the hands of the Saudis.

And meanwhile, the gas tanks just keep pumping, and the Saudis just keep getting richer.

636 Adrenalyn  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:31:12pm

re: #625 Slumbering Behemoth

It's like the nirth certifikat thing. Big waste of time chasing rabbits down endless holes.

again, another issue that should NOT be brought up again, here, there or anywhere
we should not talk about it on the web
we should not talk about it with uncle Jeb

we should not give it the light of day
because our side, every time does pay

(sung to the tune of green eggs and ham)

637 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:31:20pm

re: #616 voluble

It sez to click the image to watch.
Did you?

638 jaunte  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:31:54pm

re: #628 reine.de.tout

I copied them for you.

639 reine.de.tout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:32:16pm

re: #638 jaunte

I copied them for you.

GREAT!
That'll be fun.

640 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:32:18pm

re: #636 Adrenalyn

I speak of it only to mock it, sir.

641 pink freud  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:32:32pm

re: #633 itellu3times

Nothing other than that memeorandum has picked up this thread post. It's unlike them; they primarily cover MSM stories.

642 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:32:37pm

re: #166 Hengineer

No, just made some stupid sword dance thing

If he hadn't been surrounded by Saudis, that would have been very cute.

643 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:32:42pm

It seems to me that lowering one's head to allow someone to put a medal around your neck is still bowing. It in effect signifies that you are honored and humbled by the award you are receiving, and that you recognize and respect the authority of the person who is giving it to you. In effect, "I recognize your authority to decide whether I am or am not worthy of this award."

On the other hand, I'm no expert on etiquette. Miss Manners says never to bow to a foreign monarch, even if you're an ordinary non-president citizen, because the bow signifies that you accept the monarch's power over you.

644 freetoken  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:33:05pm

re: #604 Dr. Shalit

All I meant was that President Obama's method of genuflecting would be considered improper in Japan. His posture was wrong, his limbs were wrong, etc. If he wanted to bow to him who sits on the Chrysanthemum Throne, Obama would need some training.

As an American, I believe we should not honor (except in the most diplomatic of ways) royalty, as we are children of the Enlightenment and see all people as fundamentally equivalent (in a legal, if not genetic or financial sense.)

645 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:33:26pm

re: #629 Bubblehead II

Just new to the this thread. Charles you got a down ding. Bush DID NOT BOW to the saudi king.

I also kinda almost disagree, but he gets an upding from me for creating another provocative thread.

646 Slumbering Behemoth Stinks  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:33:28pm

Beer run! Who's pitching in for what?

bbl

647 UrbanRevival  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:33:29pm

In no way is that a bow.

648 Basho  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:33:40pm

re: #629 Bubblehead II

Just new to the this thread. Charles you got a down ding. Bush DID NOT BOW to the saudi king. He leaned over to allow him to hang the medal on him.

Bush could have channeled his qi into a ball of energy and be all like HADOUKEN! But nooooo.

Yeah... I have nothing to add to this thread hahaha.

649 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:33:41pm

re: #169 Spare O'Lake

If it's all about the oil, then how come y'all don't bow down to Canadian leaders?
/

Because the Canadian leaders would be quite embarassed by such behavior. We're polite folks, down here.

/

650 Fat Bastard Vegetarian  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:33:51pm

OT, just to say, "Calm down folks". Take 50 deep breaths and listen....

G'night friends.

651 Gus  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:34:02pm

re: #643 Last Mohican

It seems to me that lowering one's head to allow someone to put a medal around your neck is still bowing. It in effect signifies that you are honored and humbled by the award you are receiving, and that you recognize and respect the authority of the person who is giving it to you. In effect, "I recognize your authority to decide whether I am or am not worthy of this award."

On the other hand, I'm no expert on etiquette. Miss Manners says never to bow to a foreign monarch, even if you're an ordinary non-president citizen, because the bow signifies that you accept the monarch's power over you.

Good point. I've seen other times when they place the medal from behind.

652 Adrenalyn  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:34:57pm

re: #640 Slumbering Behemoth

I speak of it only to mock it, sir.

indeed, I know you do kind poster

I am trying to convey my 2 cents, ever so humbly
that even Charles should not bring it up here

give it no more air time, so to speak

653 The Shadow Do  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:35:25pm

re: #612 HDrepub

Yup, those are big boys alright. As I said before I worked in the electric power industry for thirty years, but I don't pretend to be an expert, I just relate to what I read in the industry publications over the years. Of course there are successful nuke plants, and failures as well, and the same goes for coal. The point I've always tried to make on LGF is we don't produce much power with oil, and building a lot of new anything is not going to matter much with our oil usage, until we have the technology to produce an electric vehicle with the range for the long haul. Which do you build first? You can't build expensive new generating plants with only an anticipation for a market that may or not materialize.

I agree my friend. I do think the electric car becomes viable only on the expansion of nuclear generation. It is a symbiotic relationship that is obvious but not likely to ever get rationalized barring a complete energy production melt down. Sadly, nothing happens in this country short of total crisis in my humble opinion. We tend to lurch this way and that until we find a new equilibrium.

654 pat  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:36:07pm

Frankly I missed the entire impeachment argument. I know of no bill in Congress, no investigation, nothing of the sort. Not a single Congressman that I am aware of has asked for Obama's impeachment. As for this bow, it was frankly bizarre, and the Brits, sticklers for protocol were the ones that harped on it for days. I think Obama was trying to apologize to Muslims for some imagined transgression as he as apologized every day since he stepped onto Europe. He is sounding tiresome, and close to sounding very weak.

655 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:36:20pm

I've always been disturbed by the tendency of American administrations to be pleasant to our clients, the Saudis.

656 M. Bensson-Levi  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:36:30pm

re: #561 mad mullah

He did bow to the Queen of England. That is an accepted form called a "head bow". Also not to be done by any POTUS, IMO, and the opinion of the head monkey muck of protocol.

657 Only The Lurker Knows  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:37:08pm

re: #645 unrealizedviewpoint

It is called politics. You give me a medal, I give you a a medal.

Those of us whom live in the real real world call it a circle jerk.

658 yesandno  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:37:09pm

Why does an American President bow to anyone except to the American People?....after all, he works for us. I would never make it as a diplomat because if I thought it, I would probably say it and there are way too many people looking for the opportunity to be offended whether you mean to offend them or not.

We are a strong country. A powerful country. Our leaders should act accordingly....as leaders. I sometimes think that the subservience we show the Saudis is so that they can look powerful in a region where other countries would like to tear them down. They support terrorism in the hope to control it. They control oil in the hope it can buy them both their inflated lifestyles and security. They control their women so that they can pretend to be all powerful in a fantasy world.

One day, they will be taken over. Maybe we are attempting to protect them from it happening too soon. Better to be drilling and to be building nuclear and developing other alternative energies now, instead of propping up the devil.

659 Adrenalyn  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:37:23pm

ok, so I am 5-10

I walk up to a large scary looking ______
use your imagination
the blank line is a football player, boxer, gangster, dictator, etc?


so he does not hear my insult clearly
and leans down to inquire as to the nature of my insult again

and then I hit him with a nice mocking

" ha sucker, made you bow to me"

I don't think so.....

660 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:37:41pm

Charles, I reported MY comment in the links since I forgot to attribute it. Rewrote it with attribution.

661 mich-again  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:37:50pm

re: #635 Charles

Way too many people treat politics like sports. We have to root for our team and scream insults at the other side, no matter what the facts say.

Political Granfalloons.

662 Kalixiri  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:38:01pm

re: #592 Charles

Well, you go ahead and believe that a bow is not a bow, because he's accepting a medal from Abdullah.

Because that's so much better than what Barack Obama did.

I see now that you simply believe that to lower ones head in the presence of another, for any reason, is to bow and show subservience to the other person. I suppose that you are free to believe as you do, but most people will see a difference lowering ones head to allow another to place a medal around their neck, and bowing as Obama did before the King.

Have you yet to find any evidence of other Bush bows that you say happened at every Bush-Saudi meeting?

663 Orangutan  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:38:17pm

I agree Obama didn't do anything out of the ordinary with the Saudis. I hope he didn't hand them an iPod, too......but since this complaint is vacuous, I would like to substitute another one.

IKEA really sucks.

I am pretty mechanically inclined. I do some modifications to my motorcycle, have wired a house, have restored over 20 cedar double-hung windows, made/hung cabinets, done all sorts of plumbing, etc......and this hinge set on some bathroom cabinet we bought is simply beyond installation. I've tried my usual tricks, and some others. Of course, in IKEA's directions, they simply install by hand with a neat little "click". Well, that's what's in the sketch.

Their store is so bad I am not even going to bother returning it, or trying to give them a piece of my mind. I'm going to write the experience off.

IKEA Cabinet complaint > HopenchangeBow complaint.

664 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:38:28pm

re: #635 Charles

This thread is a microcosm of the reason why this country is in such a mess.

Way too many people treat politics like sports. We have to root for our team and scream insults at the other side, no matter what the facts say.

"Kill the ump!"

Barack Obama was just doing what's been expected of every American president, since oil was discovered under the sand of the Persian Peninsula. When you scream that Obama should be impeached, and his bow was worse than the bowing and scraping of every other American president, you're just playing into the hands of the Saudis.

And meanwhile, the gas tanks just keep pumping, and the Saudis just keep getting richer.

You said it, man.

Big wheel keeps on turnin'
Proud Mary keeps on burnin'

665 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:38:45pm

re: #618 SanFranciscoZionist

Having watched first the Great Lewinsky Scandal unfold, then sat through eight years of watching left-leaning Americans hatch fruitless plans to impeach Bush, now watching right-leaning Americans starting up fruitless plans to impeach Obama--folks, we need to stop doing this. One of our greatest traditions is peaceful transfer of power between administrations. That's going to become much harder if we start treating impeachment like the equivalent of a vote of no confidence.

SF Zionist -

RIGHT-O! I do not wish the Impeachment of President Obama. Considering time frames, Impeachment is Irrelevant. Win as many Congressional and Senatorial seats in 2010 as is possible. Defeat his Re-Election in 2012. That is the "American Way." Let's DO IT.

-S-

666 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:39:15pm

re: #662 Kalixiri

I see now that you simply believe that to lower ones head in the presence of another, for any reason, is to bow and show subservience to the other person. I suppose that you are free to believe as you do, but most people will see a difference lowering ones head to allow another to place a medal around their neck, and bowing as Obama did before the King.

Have you yet to find any evidence of other Bush bows that you say happened at every Bush-Saudi meeting?

Do your own research.

667 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:39:23pm

re: #651 Gus 802

Good point. I've seen other times when they place the medal from behind.

Indeed. Way upthread I noted, mostly seriously, that they gave him the medal precisely to see him bow.

If he was such a hero, why didn't they bow to him?

Like Aragorn bowed to Frodo ...

668 Mad Mullah  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:39:57pm

I've never received a medal for anything, but briefly watching a few medal ceremonies etc (non political, such as the Olympics) on youtube, most of the recipients do bend down to allow the medal to be placed around their neck, it just seems like common sense.

669 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:40:12pm

re: #644 freetoken

freetoken -

Thanks for getting the point. That is all.

-S-

670 Archimedes  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:40:19pm

re: #664 Spare O'Lake

You said it, man.

Big wheel keeps on turnin'
Proud Mary keeps on burnin'

Fogerty!

671 pat  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:40:46pm

Did Michelle curtsy? Or was the Queen not good enough for her? I really don't know the answer. A curtsy, unlike a bow, is a formal female greeting. It merely replaces a hand shake, yet shows respect.

672 Kot Begemot  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:41:29pm

Funny how most people who complain about this place being an echo chamber are only angry because it's not their echo chamber. I sympathize with Charles for having to put up with this crap.

These days, Obama derangement syndrome is a litmus test to separate the rational right from the nutcases, just as Bush derangement syndrome was a litmus test to separate the rational left from the nutcases. Let's hope that, somehow, this can eventually lead rational people of either stripe to reclaim center stage instead of isolating them.

673 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:41:43pm

re: #671 pat

Did Michelle curtsy? Or was the Queen not good enough for her? I really don't know the answer. A curtsy, unlike a bow, is a formal female greeting. It merely replaces a hand shake, yet shows respect.

*Snort*

Michelle Obama would have to practice curtsying. It's not exactly easy.

674 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:41:46pm

re: #221 sattv4u2

So an American dignitary should NOT bow (or curtsie, as the case may be) to the Queen of England?

It's my understanding that unless you are a subject of the Queen, you do not bow to her. Americans properly do not.

675 mich-again  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:42:23pm

Another explanation for politics become sports. Minimal Group Paradigm.


Minimal group paradigm (MGP) is a term used in social psychology experiments (e.g. Tajfel, 1970) where people are assigned to random groups.

Once in these random groups, group members are made aware that they are part of a group. From here a natural phenomenon occurs, where group members will begin to associate superiority to their group over and above other out-groups. This is done via mechanism explained in social identity theory and self-categorization theory, where in-group members seek for collective-esteem building social comparisons with other groups.

For example, in-group members may attribute the achievements of out-groups to luck, or contextual circumstances; additionally, in-group members will attribute their own achievements to the success of the group and the benefits of their aims and ethos. In-group members will also make biased comparisons with less-fortunate out-groups to support the validity and legitimacy of their beliefs, values and behaviours.

676 jmoss1976  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:42:28pm

Not at all the same. Bush bowed for a medal, not in subservience. Large difference, and in line with established protocal. If your going to bash Bush or compare this with Obama's act you need to move away from the pipe.

677 freetoken  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:42:58pm

re: #635 Charles

This thread is a microcosm of the reason why this country is in such a mess.

Have you noticed the proclivity for literalism amongst so many of the naysayers?

Didn't someone, long ago, mention something about straining on a gnat while swallowing a camel?...

678 Bloodnok  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:43:01pm

re: #672 Kot Begemot

Funny how most people who complain about this place being an echo chamber are only angry because it's not their echo chamber. I sympathize with Charles for having to put up with this crap.

These days, Obama derangement syndrome is a litmus test to separate the rational right from the nutcases, just as Bush derangement syndrome was a litmus test to separate the rational left from the nutcases. Let's hope that, somehow, this can eventually lead rational people of either stripe to reclaim center stage instead of isolating them.

Hear, hear.

679 NY Nana  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:43:01pm

re: #628 reine.de.tout

Aw, heck!
I wanted to do a "Hall of Flame" in Vol 2 where I listed everyone who dinged DOWN that post, but I can't copy the names of the dingers. Heck.

Darn. I just looked, and I don't think all the nics are even visible. It was an avalanche of nics. Maybe Charles Might be able to help you?

Someone would have to call out the nics so that you could actually write them down.

Amazing, wasn't it?

680 Adrenalyn  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:43:45pm

re: #667 itellu3times

Indeed. Way upthread I noted, mostly seriously, that they gave him the medal precisely to see him bow.

If he was such a hero, why didn't they bow to him?

Like Aragorn bowed to Frodo ...

do we have a tape of his ENTIRE visit ?
perhaps they did bow to him

I think some people need to re-register as democrats and try to change that party from within, because they're doing a good job of sabotaging the right, from within

/in other words - giving any credibility to ludicrous arguements of the left or insane theories of the right, does not help

681 Gus  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:43:48pm

4 cops were killed in Oakland a couple of weeks ago. 13 people were killed in Binghamton on Friday and the very next day 3 cops were slaughtered in Pittsburgh.

North Korea launches a what many see as a nuclear delivery vehicle directly over Japan and lands in the Pacific. The trajectory effectively was leading towards North and Central America and it didn't go to orbit.

The economy is in shambles and regulations are growing before our very eyes. Domestic spending is skyrocketing under the leadership of Obama and Democratic party controlled congress.

Obama's bowing to the Saudi King as a talking point in light of these and other events borders on the irresponsible especially if it comes from official channels of the GOP.

682 hous bin pharteen  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:43:59pm

re: #635 Charles

Hey! Quit copying from my comments!

683 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:44:07pm

re: #635 Charles

This thread is a microcosm of the reason why this country is in such a mess.

Way too many people treat politics like sports. We have to root for our team and scream insults at the other side, no matter what the facts say..

Charles, as I am unable to give you a hundred updings for that comment, could you please go ahead and adjust your karma upward by a hundred on my behalf?

Back when I used to hang out at digg.com (yes, it was a traumatic experience that left me rather scarred for life), every time the Saudis would execute a rape victim for adultery or some other horrible thing, the story would shoot to the top of the front page. And everyone's comments would be about how this just goes show how evil that bastard Bush is, because the Saudis are Bush's best friends. As though every other president of both parties hasn't been equally subservient to the Saudis.

Most Americans don't care what's right or wrong any more -- they pick a side, and then they process every event that happens in the world by trying to figure out how to spin it so that it helps their side. When I was growing up in the 70's and 80's, it wasn't like this.

684 Bagua  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:44:26pm

re: #497 freetoken

This is a very complex issue because the price of oil is not purely set by traders in a free market. As is usual, price is set on the margin (and as you've pointed out, we've seen that recently with recession causing reduced demand worldwide, and the plummeting of oil prices.)

However, the curve ball, as I understand it, is the oil depletion means that the oil companies must continually do exploration, which costs money, and to develop lower quality resources into product requires investments in highly complex production schemes (such as with the Canadian tar sands.)

Thus the supply of oil is continually decreasing unless one explores or tries new methods, all of which are costly. This indeed is the Peak-Oil-ers wet dream... the never ending cycle of ever increasing costs on ever declining production.

On top of all of this is the probability that the world will not want to do what the US may want... Low oil prices that you project would arise out of a concerted US effort of reducing import oil demand simply means other countries (less wealthy than the US) could finally afford to import Saudi oil. India is the classic case.

Not saying we (the US) should not go all out in moving away from imported oil... that has been my theme I've preached here since I joined LGF... just that I don't believe that low oil price is a given even if the US moves strongly in the desired direction (of moving off of imported oil.)

Nothing to disagree with there Freetoken, nothing is ever a given in such a complex market, however, the recent historic crash in the price of crude, in the absence of any increase in production, strongly suggests, if not proves, that the Pelosi, et. al. were all incorrect in stating that the price of crude would stay high regardless of an increase in production, which in terms of market dynamics is similar to a drop in consumption.

Also, you are correct in pointing out that if we buy less Saudi oil, others will step up to buy, this is highly probable, however, the Saudis and Iranians will find themselves selling the Crude at low prices that don't leave much money for Jihad.

685 Kalixiri  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:44:27pm

re: #635 Charles


Barack Obama was just doing what's been expected of every American president, since oil was discovered under the sand of the Persian Peninsula. When you scream that Obama should be impeached, and his bow was worse than the bowing and scraping of every other American president, you're just playing into the hands of the Saudis.

I don't believe I've said that Obama should be impeached. I took issue only with the statement that "Bush Bowed Too." Once again, Bush was far too deferential to the feelings of the Saudis, and it appears that Obama will be the same or worse. But that does not change the fact that Bush did not bow. He accepted a medal that he probably should not have accepted.

686 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:44:34pm

re: #228 razorbacker

Oh, sure. Drag your hetronormative bias into it.

*hetronormative? Is that a word? Sounds good; I'm going with it.*

'heteronormative', actually, and yes it's a word. However, 'lady' and 'gentleman' are social roles, so regardless of the sex of the person involved, ladies curtsey and gentlemen bow.

687 Killgore Trout  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:44:39pm

This is kinda cool. The Coos Bay webcam now has 24 Timelapses. Here's what happened yesterday

688 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:44:53pm

re: #666 Charles

Do your own research.

Didn't you tell him that earlier?

689 avanti  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:45:16pm

re: #646 Slumbering Behemoth

Beer run! Who's pitching in for what?

bbl

Tens bucks toward some cold Sam Adams.

690 M. Bensson-Levi  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:45:18pm

re: #592 Charles

Well, you go ahead and believe that a bow is not a bow, because he's accepting a medal from Abdullah.

Because that's so much better than what Barack Obama did.

It is not a matter of better, or not. It is simply not the same thing.

Your blog. I'll not argue with you over such a silly matter.

691 jaunte  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:45:19pm

re: #679 NY Nana

I have them, just selected all, copied and pasted into a text document. All the way from .45LC to ZooMom.

692 Archimedes  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:45:40pm

re: #635 Charles

This thread is a microcosm of the reason why this country is in such a mess.

Way too many people treat politics like sports. We have to root for our team and scream insults at the other side, no matter what the facts say.

"Kill the ump!"

Kill! Kill! The dirty bum. He was out by a mile! Guy needs a new pair of glasses.

693 Sarr  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:45:43pm

When each winner at the olympics bent there heads down to receive their medals i never thought they were bowing. Did anyone else? I didn't think so!

Bending vs Bowing again....

694 Gus  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:45:46pm

re: #667 itellu3times

Indeed. Way upthread I noted, mostly seriously, that they gave him the medal precisely to see him bow.

If he was such a hero, why didn't they bow to him?

Like Aragorn bowed to Frodo ...

In light of all of military defense we provide for the region you would think. Also in light of how many billions we pour into SA for oil. I did notice that he does bend over rather delicately.

695 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:46:12pm

re: #685 Kalixiri

I'm getting the sense that we all basically agree about the substantive issues. Here on this site, at least.

I'm sure if I google hard enough, I'll find a site where they're claiming that Obama's bow proves that he really is a secret Muslim.

696 Occasional Reader  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:46:25pm

Good night.

697 Adrenalyn  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:46:44pm

re: #681 Gus 802

4 cops were killed in Oakland a couple of weeks ago. 13 people were killed in Binghamton on Friday and the very next day 3 cops were slaughtered in Pittsburgh.

North Korea launches a what many see as a nuclear delivery vehicle directly over Japan and lands in the Pacific. The trajectory effectively was leading towards North and Central America and it didn't go to orbit.

The economy is in shambles and regulations are growing before our very eyes. Domestic spending is skyrocketing under the leadership of Obama and Democratic party controlled congress.

Obama's bowing to the Saudi King as a talking point in light of these and other events borders on the irresponsible especially if it comes from official channels of the GOP.

you forgot something

0bama wants to scrap our nuclear weapons

so, let's distract from his bad judgment by AGAIN bashing Bush, even though he is NOT President any more

698 Bloodnok  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:46:50pm

re: #676 jmoss1976

Not at all the same. Bush bowed for a medal, not in subservience. Large difference, and in line with established protocal. If your going to bash Bush or compare this with Obama's act you need to move away from the pipe.

Who is "bashing Bush"? The point is that Presidents have been showing subservience to the House of Saud for generations by bowing, kowtowing, and yes, accepting medals from them. That is the point of the post.

699 jcm  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:46:54pm

Do we stand on principal.

Life
Liberty
Property & Pursuit of Happiness.

Do we stand?

Except when cheap oil is to be had, then we can bend a little to a regressive, misogynistic, theocracy because it's more convenient?

When we do have a choice. A choice to develop our own resources, a choice to be independent of a oil theocracy. It easier to to use Saudi oil, it's harder to overcome all the resistance at home from all sides to develop our own.

Bow, bend, kiss, hold hands, accept awards; it all signifies we choose to set aside our principals for easy cheap oil.

Regardless of which president is paying homage:
Do we stand on our principals?

700 avanti  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:47:30pm

re: #671 pat

Did Michelle curtsy? Or was the Queen not good enough for her? I really don't know the answer. A curtsy, unlike a bow, is a formal female greeting. It merely replaces a hand shake, yet shows respect.

She did not, it's optional, and she choose not to.

701 Orangutan  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:47:49pm

re: #681 Gus 802

...

Obama's bowing to the Saudi King as a talking point in light of these and other events borders on the irresponsible especially if it comes from official channels of the GOP.

No really, IKEA is a more serious situation than this whole bow thing.

We don't know half the favors our leaders have done in the past for corrupt, naughty foreign, ah, "dignitaries".

I think we should demonstrate in front of an IKEA in a show of support for...me.

702 Gus  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:48:14pm

re: #697 Adrenalyn

you forgot something

0bama wants to scrap our nuclear weapons

so, let's distract from his bad judgment by AGAIN bashing Bush, even though he is NOT President any more

Well, yeah, I think the comparison is mute at this point. I think it's best to let the history speak for itself in that we all bow to the Saudis every time we fill up our cars with gasoline.

703 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:48:20pm

re: #676 jmoss1976

If you want to disagree with me, make your case. But since just want to insult me, you can piss off.

704 lobo91  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:48:28pm

re: #681 Gus 802

4 cops were killed in Oakland a couple of weeks ago. 13 people were killed in Binghamton on Friday and the very next day 3 cops were slaughtered in Pittsburgh.

North Korea launches a what many see as a nuclear delivery vehicle directly over Japan and lands in the Pacific. The trajectory effectively was leading towards North and Central America and it didn't go to orbit.

The economy is in shambles and regulations are growing before our very eyes. Domestic spending is skyrocketing under the leadership of Obama and Democratic party controlled congress.

Obama's bowing to the Saudi King as a talking point in light of these and other events borders on the irresponsible especially if it comes from official channels of the GOP.

Personally, I'm far more concerned by Obama's newly announced plan to unilateraly disarm America than by his making an ass of himself in front of the Saudi king.

I know, I have an odd set of priorities...

705 Sarr  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:48:41pm

Good night is right.
Remember: It's not what it seems, but it is what it is.
Now ponder that for a spell.

706 Macker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:48:52pm

re: #52 zombie

With US and British exploration, development and technology, the House of Saud would still be living in tattered tents and stealing humping each other's camels.

=

WithOUT US and British exploration, development and technology, the House of Saud would still be living in tattered tents and stealing humping each other's camels.

Big PIMF. Sorry!

There, fixed that for ya!

707 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:48:54pm

re: #700 avanti

She did not, it's optional, and she choose not to.

The Miss Manners excerpt that I saw suggests that curtsying to a foreign monarch is equivalent to bowing, and shouldn't be done.

708 Digital Display  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:49:06pm

re: #646 Slumbering Behemoth

Beer run! Who's pitching in for what?

bbl

Sorry.. You can't buy beer in Indiana on Sundays...The church crowd rules here.
/Wish the mafia or somebody would step up to the plate and fill a need in the community.
//

709 Gus  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:49:19pm

re: #704 lobo91

Personally, I'm far more concerned by Obama's newly announced plan to unilateraly disarm America than by his making an ass of himself in front of the Saudi king.

I know, I have an odd set of priorities...

I think that's an excellent priority and talking point.

710 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:49:41pm

re: #310 HelloDare

Bush should have faked a bow and head butted him.

Now, that I would have paid money to see.

When one of the Saudis--can't remember which--went to stay at the Bush ranch, a dear female relative of mine expressed the wish that the Bush's dog would hump his leg, or perhaps pee on him.

711 Kalixiri  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:50:01pm

re: #666 Charles

Do your own research.

Do you not believe that it is the burden of accuser to present the evidence? Again, I have looked, and I have not found any other such instances of Bush bowing. I only ask that you back up your accusation with a link. I don't think that is too much to ask. I had thought this blog was concerned with facts and making sure that those things posted on the front page were correct.... Have I been mistaken?

712 Adrenalyn  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:50:21pm

re: #702 Gus 802

Well, yeah, I think the comparison is mute at this point. I think it's best to let the history speak for itself in that we all bow to the Saudis every time we fill up our cars with gasoline.

again, and with all due respect and politeness

this is not relevant


and to the other posters who think Bush woulda/coulda/shoulda done more to wean off Saudi/OPEC oil

you folks never stop to think that Congress (the democrats in Congress) made that hard by not allowing drilling, nuclear energy, etc. ?

713 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:50:34pm

re: #704 lobo91

No, you don't.

Charles is right. However little I liked the image of Obama bowing (and I didn't like it at all), it's a distraction from other, more important issues.

714 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:51:11pm
715 Adrenalyn  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:52:05pm

re: #707 Last Mohican

The Miss Manners excerpt that I saw suggests that curtsying to a foreign monarch is equivalent to bowing, and shouldn't be done.

gah !

and in Asian society people BOW
they do not shake hands


so what, we insult our Asian allies ?

716 Zimriel  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:52:10pm

Sigh.

To the obtuse ones who think that bowing for a medal isn't like bowing in subservience - imagine that you had made a post here, and then you got kudos from Stormfront for "tellin' it like it is!" Wouldn't that make you feel just a little bit unclean? Now imagine if they mocked up a whole bronze medal with a "Celtic Cross" on it and then offered to present it to you. Would you go, and accept that medal around your neck, while a bunch of people taped it?

No?

Now that that's established, the opinions of the Saudi monarchy and those of Stormfront differ not one whit; except, perhaps, in that Saudi propaganda is listened to by more people.

717 avanti  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:52:10pm

re: #697 Adrenalyn

you forgot something

0bama wants to scrap our nuclear weapons

so, let's distract from his bad judgment by AGAIN bashing Bush, even though he is NOT President any more

Again in fairness, Reagan suggested a nuke free world also, did reduce nukes by 80 % and many of us supported Reagan's judgement.

718 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:52:26pm

This might be gone come morning. If you haven't seen this yet you might want to.
CBS 60 MINUTES INTERVIEW

Youtube Video
719 Claire  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:52:32pm

re: #672 Kot Begemot

Is this litmus test an organized effort? It feels like it.

720 rain of lead  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:53:11pm

hey guys,
just to step away for this stuff for a bit
watching the country music awards Trace Adkins did a very moving
tribute to the men who gave their lives for this country
the chorus is sung by the West Point glee club
give a listen
"Till the last shots fired"

721 NY Nana  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:53:17pm

re: #691 jaunte

{Jaunte},

You are a hero! I hope that Reine reads your post!

722 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:53:19pm

re: #711 Kalixiri

You didn't find it with a simple google search? I find that surprising. My google-fu is (as everyone here will be happy to attest) pretty darn weak, and I found at least an article from the American Thinker.

723 Ghost707  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:53:46pm

re: #635 Charles

This thread is a microcosm of the reason why this country is in such a mess.

Way too many people treat politics like sports. We have to root for our team and scream insults at the other side, no matter what the facts say.

"Kill the ump!"

Barack Obama was just doing what's been expected of every American president, since oil was discovered under the sand of the Persian Peninsula. When you scream that Obama should be impeached, and his bow was worse than the bowing and scraping of every other American president, you're just playing into the hands of the Saudis.

And meanwhile, the gas tanks just keep pumping, and the Saudis just keep getting richer.

And it will be like that long after we are gone.
Since the greens pretty much control this country, we will not be drilling for any more oil since Al Gore convinced the world that oil is bad.

We will not have a replacement for oil that can offset imports.
Even though a majority of Americans are in favor of drilling locally, we do not have a government of the people any more.
Congress is just in it for re-election and lining their own pockets, the citizens be damned.

724 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:53:47pm

re: #671 pat

pat -

From what I saw on tape, Michelle Obama gets a "pass" on this one. I am certainly not Michelle's fan - AND - must be fair. Her Britannic Majesty reached out first unless the tape was altered. Give Elizabeth Windsor credit for doing her best to maintain the Special (US/UK) Relationship. My tweaked DVD Player remains available to PM Brown as long as he has a 120/60 Hz to 50 Hz converter, who knows - the movies might well be good.

-S-

725 Bagua  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:53:53pm

re: #507 mich-again

Crash the price by creating a glut. A coupe ideas to contribute to that. Go to a 4-day school week (longer days) and 4-day per week US Mail (which is primarily junk) delivery.

We won't get there fast enough by tweaking machines. We need big things fast.

That would work also, however, its not necessary. The last few months prove that a small decrease has a potential for a dramatic effect - it is arguable that a massive increase in production would do the same thing.

726 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:53:54pm

re: #712 Adrenalyn

No one is free from blame.

727 Gus  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:53:59pm

re: #712 Adrenalyn

again, and with all due respect and politeness

this is not relevant

and to the other posters who think Bush woulda/coulda/shoulda done more to wean off Saudi/OPEC oil

you folks never stop to think that Congress (the democrats in Congress) made that hard by not allowing drilling, nuclear energy, etc. ?

That why I said the point is essentially mute. Both physical events and our allegiance to the Saudis has been going on for decades. Obama and the Democrats are as you said more relevant.

728 Dustyvet  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:54:01pm

re: #12 Gella

money, money, money, money

Youtube Video
729 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:54:14pm

re: #715 Adrenalyn

gah !

and in Asian society people BOW
they do not shake hands

so what, we insult our Asian allies ?

Yeah, I wondered about that. In Japan, as far as I can tell, bowing isn't a sign of subservience, just a sign of respect. People mutually bow to each other. It seems like that should be acceptable.

That's what I get for linking to one single-page excerpt of Miss Manners' book, instead of buying the whole thing.

730 Adrenalyn  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:54:15pm

re: #714 Iron Fist

Man, you went about it wrong. Grab his testicles and squeeze. Then you can thank him for giving you a respectful bow. OT, but somewhat relevant, when I was tauhgt to bow, we were taught to bend from the waist but to keep our eyes on the person we were bowing to. There used to be obne of the black belts that was very adamant about you looking at him when you bowed. He might take that as an oppertunity to get a free punch in if you didn't :-)

well, not 100% true in all styles
for example, Kung Fu schools have a very elaborate, and I think elegant bow, that involves taking your eye-eye contact off a bit

/and I think my use of the comma is not quite right, above

731 NonNativeTexan  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:54:27pm

re: #720 rain of lead

Love Trace, his Arlington brings me to tears every time.

732 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:54:51pm
733 mich-again  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:55:45pm

re: #725 Bagua

it is arguable that a massive increase in production would do the same thing.

Yes it would. Even the credible threat of an increase in supply would.

734 Adrenalyn  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:56:01pm

re: #726 Dianna

No one is free from blame.

yes
and again
a hearty (and polite)

GAH !


why must "we" continue to bash Bush

one of the great arguments of the left (IMHO)
when we used......but Clinton this, and Clinton that

was to point out that he was no longer POTUS
and man, that really was a good comeback, in my mind

735 Macker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:56:10pm

re: #732 Iron Fist

Now, do you apply said comment to all #666s on LGF?

/snicker

736 capitalist piglet  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:56:37pm

re: #520 Sharmuta

Kissing and holding hands.

Just as disgusting if not more so than a bow.

Sharm, in the last day or two, I saw that kiss photo being used on DU to bludgeon Bush, and some other people there identified it as a Photoshop. I don't know whether it is (I read that they just kissed cheeks, as is the custom there), but I thought I should let you know that's what I saw there.

I didn't look at your source; if it's a legit one, then please disregard.

737 PSGInfinity  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:56:54pm

Can I be the first to declare the whole 'bowing' thing tedious?

738 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:56:56pm

re: #727 Gus 802

Hon? You want "moot", not "mute." "moot" is "no longer relevant", "mute" is "silent."

It's driving me slightly mad.

739 Kalixiri  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:57:06pm

re: #695 Last Mohican

I'm getting the sense that we all basically agree about the substantive issues. Here on this site, at least.

I'm sure if I google hard enough, I'll find a site where they're claiming that Obama's bow proves that he really is a secret Muslim.

All people who make such claims should have the evidence to back it up, or should cease saying such things. If we insist on evidence in all cases, then claims like the secret Muslim thing, or the Obama birth records thing, suddenly loose credibility. Wasn't it just recently that Charles showed that a person's claims about Obama's birth certificate originated at 9/11 truther site? That was yet another case of someone not insisting on hard evidence and it making them look like a fool.

740 Bagua  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:57:17pm

re: #733 mich-again

re: #733 mich-again

Yep, and no doubt the new production would come on line in stages, over the next 10 years and the next 10 thereafter, keeping a constant downward pressure on the price of Crude, and giving us a new era of prosperity.

741 tedzilla99  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:57:26pm

re: #45 Charles

Cool. So go ahead and keep refusing to face reality, folks. It was so different, what Obama did. He's evil, and Bush was just "accepting an award."

If that makes you feel better, knock yourselves out.

It's lightyears different, yes, but it's not impeachable either way. A big difference between being polite, as Bush was, and completely deferential, as Barry was.

742 Gus  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:57:34pm

re: #726 Dianna

No one is free from blame.

Isn't it funny how in politics we always want to forget about what our own parties did if it's to our benefit? It's like people want to blame Clinton who left the White House over 8 years ago and thus never forget his failures and indiscretions. However, when they are on "our side" we have to forget any of the low points. It's self-censorship for the most part and fails to see the benefit from critical analysis.

PS: OK, Moot/Moot/Moot ;)

743 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:57:51pm

re: #359 jwb7605

Upding.
I keep hoping the argument will turn to whether somebody took their shoes off in Japan, or something.

Well, President Bush Sr. threw up on a Japanese dignitary once. That was a real breach of protocol, but he didn't do it on purpose.

744 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:58:02pm

re: #590 Fat Bastard Vegetarian

I wasn't talking about you or any other person who has drive for a living. I'm talking about wasteful driving like driving a block away, or circling the parking lot for twenty minutes just to get a good parking spot. I'm sorry if you mistook my comment as being directed at you, because it wasn't.

745 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:58:08pm

re: #711 Kalixiri

Kill the ump!

746 Kalixiri  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:58:22pm

re: #722 Dianna

You didn't find it with a simple google search? I find that surprising. My google-fu is (as everyone here will be happy to attest) pretty darn weak, and I found at least an article from the American Thinker.

link?

747 avanti  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:58:32pm

re: #713 Dianna

No, you don't.

Charles is right. However little I liked the image of Obama bowing (and I didn't like it at all), it's a distraction from other, more important issues.

It's been a few days, and the only mention of the bowing issue has been the blogs. Maybe if we fan the flames enough the MSM will pick it up. If they do, I'd hope that it would show that we discussed it fairly.

748 Dustyvet  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:58:38pm

re: #708 HoosierHoops

Sorry.. You can't buy beer in Indiana on Sundays...The church crowd rules here.
/Wish the mafia or somebody would step up to the plate and fill a need in the community.
//

You can't buy beer in Minnesota on Sunday either...:)

/S

749 Archimedes  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:58:41pm

re: #711 Kalixiri

Do you not believe that it is the burden of accuser to present the evidence? Again, I have looked, and I have not found any other such instances of Bush bowing. I only ask that you back up your accusation with a link. I don't think that is too much to ask. I had thought this blog was concerned with facts and making sure that those things posted on the front page were correct.... Have I been mistaken?

What is your view of Nixon visiting China? Or presidents in the past visiting and respecting horrific regimes? It's happened too many times. I'm against it on principle, but the point is it has happened many times, and Bush has certainly appeased bad governments.

I remember Clinton telling China we were as bad as they were, which was probably the worst thing I've heard of a president doing wrt foreign relations. Wait, no, sending Elian Gonzales back to Cuba was the worst thing.

I think we need to step back and look at the big picture here.

750 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:59:16pm

And with that, sleeper "kalixri' graduated to insults, and is now welcome to piss right off.

751 hous bin pharteen  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:59:41pm

GUNNER!
LOAD HEAT!


READY....................................

752 Adrenalyn  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:59:51pm

re: #745 Charles

Kill the ump!

no, bad idea

get the ump to toss out a new game ball


/new thread, in other words

753 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 7:59:52pm

re: #727 Gus 802

MOOT. not mute.

(grr.)

754 Gus  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:00:18pm

re: #753 Taqiyyotomist

MOOT. not mute.

(grr.)

I've already been told so your point is moot. ;)

755 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:00:22pm

re: #376 David Simon

lol. Yes, I detest them the most. But the others are disgusting too. If you're that feeble, what are you doing shopping at the fucking mall?

I don't quite understand this. Handicapped people should not shop at the mall?

756 PSGInfinity  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:00:40pm

re: #745 Charles

Kill the ump!

I just wanted to see that again...

757 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:00:51pm

re: #737 PSGInfinity

Can I be the first to declare the whole 'bowing' thing tedious?

I think it's more like Bevis and Butthead, "heh, made him bow!"

758 hous bin pharteen  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:01:12pm

FIRE!

759 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:01:15pm

re: #754 Gus 802

Sorry, I'm always late to these things./ :)

760 pat  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:01:18pm

There is a huge difference between holding hand/kissing than bowing. Not to us, of course. I will take the bow any day. But to Muslims . Sunni bow only to Allah. This will be seen as a bow to The Custodian Of The Two Mosques: Mecca and Medina. I think Obama was set up.

761 hous bin pharteen  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:01:25pm

Image: M1A1-Firing-Iraq-svg-01.jpg

762 Adrenalyn  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:01:36pm

look, a new thread !

763 NukeAtomrod  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:01:58pm

Bush bowed because he thought he was supposed to.
Obama bowed because he liked it!

/ Obligatory unsubstantiated pro-Bush claim. Folks bad-mouthed him so much, for so long, he deserves it.

764 hous bin pharteen  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:02:10pm

It was just the 666 comment!

765 jaunte  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:02:19pm

It is the little rift within the lute
That by-and-by will make the music moot

766 OldLineTexan  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:02:22pm

re: #760 pat

There is a huge difference between holding hand/kissing than bowing. Not to us, of course. I will take the bow any day. But to Muslims . Sunni bow only to Allah. This will be seen as a bow to The Custodian Of The Two Mosques: Mecca and Medina. I think Obama was set up.

By Soros, sure.

/

767 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:02:22pm

re: #383 Taqiyyotomist

Obama will gift the Saudis with his daughters, and we'll have an alliance of Kingdoms.
hehe.
/

Now, back when everyone was explaining that the Afghanis wouldn't give us Bin Laden because he was a 'guest', my idea was that Jenna and Barbara should marry into influential Afghani families, and then we'd be family.

I think the kids would have to live in Texas, though.

768 barere  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:02:38pm

I'm not much a fan of France.

But I think I'd enjoy showing my respect to the French First Lady.

DAYUM!

769 PSGInfinity  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:03:04pm

re: #757 itellu3times

I think it's more like Bevis and Butthead, "heh, made him bow!"

And didn't we stop finding silly gotcha games amusing sometime during high school?

770 Dustyvet  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:03:06pm

re: #758 hous bin pharteen

FIRE!

Shot over, Shot out...:)

771 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:03:09pm

re: #760 pat

There is a huge difference between holding hand/kissing than bowing. Not to us, of course. I will take the bow any day. But to Muslims . Sunni bow only to Allah. This will be seen as a bow to The Custodian Of The Two Mosques: Mecca and Medina. I think Obama was set up.

The ONLY people who've even noticed this are right-wing bloggers in the US. Not a single Arab media source has even mentioned it.

772 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:03:40pm

re: #742 Gus 802

Isn't it funny how in politics we always want to forget about what our own parties did if it's to our benefit? It's like people want to blame Clinton who left the White House over 8 years ago and thus never forget his failures and indiscretions. However, when they are on "our side" we have to forget any of the low points. It's self-censorship for the most part and fails to see the benefit from critical analysis.

PS: OK, Moot/Moot/Moot ;)

I'm not disagreeing. Politics, in my household, is the favored blood sport. I don't happen to think that way, mostly because I'm usually too distracted to dial in.

I never believed any administration could - or would! - do precisely what I thought right. I viewed, and still view, Clinton as a corrupt southern pol, and the country's survived those in the past. Bush started out as a president who viewed himself as tinkering around the edges, and to his astonishment found that he'd have to rise to meet a moment. He did as well as could be expected, given his opposition and some of his starting premises (with which I disagreed, but that's neither here nor there at this point).

Obama worries me. I can't pretend that I don't view him with deep disfavor, and my reasons have everything to do with what I view as his nanny-state thinking.

Bowing? That's the least of my worries!

I try to keep my mental balance. I don't find it easy.

773 Mad Mullah  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:03:49pm

I found raw footage of Bush arriving in Saudi Arabia with the ruler waiting to greet him. Bush does kiss him twice on each cheek and gives a hand shake. There is no bow though.

Youtube Video
774 mich-again  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:03:58pm

re: #745 Charles

Kill the ump!

In 8th grade my CYO team played a game at Holy Redeemer in SW Detroit and someone in the crowd shot at the ump's backside with a BB gun and he stopped the game to bitch at everyone in the crowd but no one fessed up or left. They were chuckling about it.

775 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:04:04pm

re: #755 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't quite understand this. Handicapped people should not shop at the mall?

I didn't want to argue, but that was quite a statement.

776 capitalist piglet  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:04:04pm

re: #743 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, President Bush Sr. threw up on a Japanese dignitary once. That was a real breach of protocol, but he didn't do it on purpose.

Actually, I read last night via HotAir - someone gave me a news source -that President Bush actually didn't throw up on anyone else. He did, however, throw up on himself.

Not to nitpick...I was surprised to find that out, as I was under the same impression you were, because that's been the meme for so long.

777 Only The Lurker Knows  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:04:33pm

Iron Fist rule being employed.

Should have done it sooner

You are still wrong Charles.

I thi`nl...........................................................

778 rain of lead  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:04:58pm

re: #746 Kalixiri

and this user is BLOCKED!

779 barere  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:05:01pm

Then there's this....
Pres Bush shows Prince Abdullah around

780 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:05:17pm

re: #747 avanti

It's been a few days, and the only mention of the bowing issue has been the blogs. Maybe if we fan the flames enough the MSM will pick it up. If they do, I'd hope that it would show that we discussed it fairly.

You're kidding, right?

The msm has every reason to portray blogs as places of anarchy and extremism.

781 nyc redneck  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:05:18pm

well i don't like ANY deference or subservience to these saudis.
they don't warrant it at all.
in this situation w/ o, there was no need to bow,
it was a casual setting. everyone milling around.
there was no special ceremony that required formal behavior.
o eagerly went above and beyond the call of duty.
he jumped at the opportunity to bow, deeply,

i wish o could have just shook the king's hand like everyone else.

782 lobo91  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:05:24pm

re: #740 Bagua

re: #733 mich-again

Yep, and no doubt the new production would come on line in stages, over the next 10 years and the next 10 thereafter, keeping a constant downward pressure on the price of Crude, and giving us a new era of prosperity.

Great plan. Now, somebody go call the aliens from Mars Attacks to come and vaporize Congress so we can implement this new production.

That's the only way I see us increasing domestic oil production, unfortunately.

783 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:05:41pm

re: #778 rain of lead

and this user is BLOCKED!

Good thing I didn't reply with the link, then, isn't it?

784 Gus  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:06:11pm

re: #772 Dianna

I'm not disagreeing. Politics, in my household, is the favored blood sport. I don't happen to think that way, mostly because I'm usually too distracted to dial in.

I never believed any administration could - or would! - do precisely what I thought right. I viewed, and still view, Clinton as a corrupt southern pol, and the country's survived those in the past. Bush started out as a president who viewed himself as tinkering around the edges, and to his astonishment found that he'd have to rise to meet a moment. He did as well as could be expected, given his opposition and some of his starting premises (with which I disagreed, but that's neither here nor there at this point).

Obama worries me. I can't pretend that I don't view him with deep disfavor, and my reasons have everything to do with what I view as his nanny-state thinking.

Bowing? That's the least of my worries!

I try to keep my mental balance. I don't find it easy.

Right, I didn't think you were disagreeing. I was just making a point about how we tend to be selective in our criticisms of former presidents.

785 Bagua  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:07:03pm

re: #782 lobo91

Great plan. Now, somebody go call the aliens from Mars Attacks to come and vaporize Congress so we can implement this new production.

That's the only way I see us increasing domestic oil production, unfortunately.

We don't need the help of aliens, we have an opportunity to vote every two years.

786 Sosigado  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:07:20pm

Bowing, schmowing. The bottom line for me is that Barack Obama has not done a single, solitary thing so far that even comes close to giving me any warm fuzzies that he can effectively lead this country. The dude scares the crap outta me. That's just my opinion, but I stand by it.

787 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:07:24pm

6.3 Earthquake in l'Aquila, Italy

788 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:07:29pm

Why is everyone arguing over Obama bowling?

789 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:07:39pm

re: #763 NukeAtomrod

I updinged for the second para.

790 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:08:06pm

re: #769 PSGInfinity

And didn't we stop finding silly gotcha games amusing sometime during high school?

Errr, well, um, ...

791 yesandno  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:08:17pm

re: #754 Gus 802

I've already been told so your point is moot. ;)

Maybe he thought you couldn't hear him.....

/ : )

792 avanti  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:08:33pm

re: #780 Dianna

You're kidding, right?

The msm has every reason to portray blogs as places of anarchy and extremism.

Yes, but this one seems the least extreme in a pretty extreme blog world.

793 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:08:43pm

re: #785 Bagua

We don't need the help of aliens, we have an opportunity to vote every two years.

Considering the state of the Republican Party, I think we got a better shot with the Martians.

794 rain of lead  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:08:49pm

re: #783 Dianna


bwahaahahahahahahaha

795 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:08:54pm

re: #771 Charles

That's worth noting.

796 Zimriel  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:09:01pm

re: #760 pat

There is a huge difference between holding hand/kissing than bowing. Not to us, of course. I will take the bow any day. But to Muslims . Sunni bow only to Allah. This will be seen as a bow to The Custodian Of The Two Mosques: Mecca and Medina. I think Obama was set up.

I understand that Muslims used to prostrate themselves to the Caliph, who was Allah's representative. I think that practice lasted until at least Ma'mun (the last 'Abbasid who mattered).

Mind you that was before Sunnism had fully formed. (Everyone always forgets that Sunnism as a sectarian system was a late development.) The hadith reports that several Sunnite founding imams got public floggings, or had to hide, because they showed too little deference to the Caliph.

797 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:09:03pm

re: #788 unrealizedviewpoint

Why is everyone arguing over Obama bowling?

Last week I said Obama was trying out for the Special Olympics bowing team.
Nobody thought it was funny.
:(

798 Claire  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:09:15pm

re: #683 Last Mohican

Most Americans don't care what's right or wrong any more -- they pick a side, and then they process every event that happens in the world by trying to figure out how to spin it so that it helps their side. When I was growing up in the 70's and 80's, it wasn't like this.

Basic politeness and levels of respect have broken down in society a little all the time in my entire lifetime. Now we have regressed to Elementary School level where if you like somebody, they can do no wrong, and if you dislike somebody they absolutely can do no right.

799 traderjoe9  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:09:17pm

re: #230 Hengineer

Definitely not, an American Dignitary should approach the Queen of England as a foreign dignitary should.

Remember we are NOT any monarchs' subjects.

Obama DIDN'T bow to the queen; but he did bow to the King.

That's frankly what bothers me.

800 Gus  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:09:21pm

re: #791 yesandno

Maybe he thought you couldn't hear him.....

/ : )

Whew, good thing I'm not president! ;)

801 PSGInfinity  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:09:40pm

re: #782 lobo91

Great plan. Now, somebody go call the aliens from Mars Attacks to come and vaporize Congress so we can implement this new production. That's the only way I see us increasing domestic oil production, unfortunately.

You make a sad, startling point: we're much closer to ruin than redemption, and absent Divine intervention, our odds don't look good. (Sniffle)

802 NonNativeTexan  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:09:51pm

re: #788 unrealizedviewpoint

Why is everyone arguing over Obama bowling?

Because he said he looked like a special Olympian when he did it. /

803 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:10:11pm

re: #799 traderjoe9

Obama DIDN'T bow to the queen; but he did bow to the King.

That's frankly what bothers me.

And he was in the Queen's domain...but not in Abdullah's.

804 PSGInfinity  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:10:21pm

re: #770 Dustyvet

Shot over, Shot out...:)

Ready! Fire! Aim!

805 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:10:37pm

re: #797 Taqiyyotomist

Last week I said Obama was trying out for the Special Olympics bowing team.
Nobody thought it was funny.
:(

That's funny. It is.

806 lobo91  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:10:52pm

re: #793 unrealizedviewpoint

Considering the state of the Republican Party, I think we got a better shot with the Martians.

So do I.

807 Sosigado  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:11:10pm

BTW, the auto comments thingy is pretty cool. First time I've really tried it.

808 NonNativeTexan  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:11:15pm

re: #797 Taqiyyotomist

I am too slow.

809 Dr. Shalit  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:11:28pm

re: #748 Dustyvet

You can't buy beer in Minnesota on Sunday either...:)

/S

Dusty -

Beer was always available on Sunday in NJ - One Way or Another. Fellow Jersey dwellers who are old enough will know what I mean.

-S-

810 David Simon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:11:35pm

re: #755 SanFranciscoZionist

I don't quite understand this. Handicapped people should not shop at the mall?

By all means. Now a couple of questions for you:

How does being able to park ten feet closer to the entrance help them shop at the mall?

Why do parking spaces go unused just so they can be held open for people who are old, recovering from an illness, or just plain lazy and milking it?

811 Bagua  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:11:38pm

re: #793 unrealizedviewpoint

Considering the state of the Republican Party, I think we got a better shot with the Martians.

Yes I agree, but... we must oppose this mantra that it is futile and inevitable, and that only unworkable 'alternatives' such as wind and solar are the only way.

First we must win the intellectual battle, then the political one will be easier.

Alternatively, we can waste our time on silly things.

812 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:12:01pm

No matter what's going on out there in the world,.. we still have bright, blessed day and dark, sacred night.


Youtube Video
813 voluble  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:12:18pm

And just what was Bush supposed to have done? I guess he could have stood straight and made the guy jump up and down or run off and get a stool? He could have told him to shove the medal? That probably wouldn't be the wisest choice when dealing with the provider of a crucial natural resource. Especially one that we are not allowed to produce at home and that we need to keep our troops in the field. There certainly would have been a lot of support for picking another fight in the middle east.

If someone wants to make an argument that Bush liberating 50 million people and fighting the jihadists on multiple fronts is the same as Obama making kiss-kiss with the Iranians and hanging our allies out to dry across the globe because both presidents were nice to the provider of a vital resource then they can do it. But mislabeling a picture for public consumption is not the way to go. Bush did enough bad things without having to make up more.

Now if you tell me the medal was for killing efforts to allow off-shore drilling in the US I may have another opinion.

814 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:12:42pm

re: #799 traderjoe9

Obama DIDN'T bow to the queen; but he did bow to the King.

That's frankly what bothers me.

It's disturbing, isn't it? And furthermore, from what I've read, nobody else at G20 felt the need to bow to the Saudi piece of shit king.

Note that I am NOT trying to argue that Obama is a secret Muslim! I just know that someone out there is trying to make that inference, and it ain't gonna be me.

815 jaunte  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:12:55pm

Arab media not focused on bowing, but exporting:

In 2008, the United States imported 24.1% of its oil from Arab countries compared to 21.6% in 2007, which means that the US reliance on Arab oil is still on the rise. It is worth mentioning in this respect that Arab countries, specifically Saudi Arabia, are solely building the surplus production capacity for contingencies.


[Link: english.daralhayat.com...]

816 PSGInfinity  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:13:03pm

re: #790 itellu3times

Errr, well, um, ...

Upding for honesty. Now can we get OFF THE SUBJECT PLEASE?!

817 HDrepub  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:13:04pm

re: #780 Dianna

You're kidding, right?

The msm has every reason to portray blogs as places of anarchy and extremism.

Except for the Daily Kos, that one is okay with the MSM.

818 barere  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:13:32pm

The fake problem: "Obama is a Muslim".
The real problem: "Obama will expand the scope of government".

End of.

819 Claire  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:13:32pm

re: #780 Dianna

Anarchy? Seriously, which blogs are anarchist and right-wing? Simply curious, I don't get out much.......

820 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:13:39pm

re: #807 Sosigado

BTW, the auto comments thingy is pretty cool. First time I've really tried it.

I like it, cept sometimes I scroll back up and loose my place.

821 Dustyvet  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:13:49pm

re: #809 Dr. Shalit

Dusty -

Beer was always available on Sunday in NJ - One Way or Another. Fellow Jersey dwellers who are old enough will know what I mean.

-S-

Atlantic City is one hell of a commute from Minneapolis for a 12 pack...:)

822 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:13:52pm
823 Lively  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:13:59pm

re: #787 Spare O'Lake

6.3 Earthquake in l'Aquila, Italy

I don't have a map or anything. But a rocket blasted off from North Korea today and landed in the Pacific. I wonder if there's any cause and effect....

824 traderjoe9  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:14:03pm

re: #814 Last Mohican

It's disturbing, isn't it? And furthermore, from what I've read, nobody else at G20 felt the need to bow to the Saudi piece of shit king.

Note that I am NOT trying to argue that Obama is a secret Muslim! I just know that someone out there is trying to make that inference, and it ain't gonna be me.

Secret Muslim or not, hes definitely bending over backwards and kissing their asses.

825 MARedneck  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:14:03pm

This is a bow.

826 NukeAtomrod  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:14:12pm

re: #810 David Simon

By all means. Now a couple of questions for you:

How does being able to park ten feet closer to the entrance help them shop at the mall?

Why do parking spaces go unused just so they can be held open for people who are old, recovering from an illness, or just plain lazy and milking it?

Not to be rude- or maybe to be rude- Isn't there some greater injustice for you to fight? Do you really care about this that much?

827 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:14:31pm

re: #796 Zimriel

I know the Turks prostrated themselves to the Ottoman Emperor.

However, one prostrated oneself three times to the Byzantine Emperor. And bowed far more to medieval kings than one does to modern ones.

The Greeks got upset because Alexander required the proskynesis (kissing the fingers and gesturing upwards) after he conquered Persia (the Greeks only made that gesture to the gods).

Maybe we're being silly?

828 mich-again  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:14:31pm

re: #810 David Simon

Why do parking spaces go unused just so they can be held open for people who are old, recovering from an illness, or just plain lazy and milking it?

Do you drive a minivan? How long would you drive around looking for a closer parking spot than the easy ones? Why are you going to the mall anyway?

829 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:14:34pm

re: #810 David Simon

By all means. Now a couple of questions for you:

How does being able to park ten feet closer to the entrance help them shop at the mall?

Why do parking spaces go unused just so they can be held open for people who are old, recovering from an illness, or just plain lazy and milking it?

Because, IMO, we f***ing rock, with respect to how we treat the disabled in America. I wonder if S.A. has handicapped parking?

That said, I cannot stand to see someone bound out of their car like Bo and Luke Duke and strut to the store entrance after parking where someone with a mobility-destroying disability should be able to find a spot.

830 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:14:57pm

re: #823 Lively

I don't have a map or anything. But a rocket blasted off from North Korea today and landed in the Pacific. I wonder if there's any cause and effect....

Nope.

831 hous bin pharteen  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:15:01pm

re: #770 Dustyvet

Cool tank, but I never got to play with it. They were coming on to the Armor Div first.

Nice arguing with you lizards. But there is much more important things for me to do!

(I left the ice cream in the freezer, and it keeps calling me! Help! Help!)

832 lostlakehiker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:15:06pm

re: #29 Iron Fist

Shit, we're going to get called "expansionist" and "colonizers" and such no matter what we do. Take the oil fields, and leave the rest of the desert to those who enjoy living there.

Ah, but if we did that, we would actually be not just expansionists and colonizers, but predators and thieves.

Any nation that had anything of value would be arming like mad to defend it. What if we ran short of gold? Copper? Molybdenum? Uranium? Good farmland? The list is endless, when you think of things others have. The mindset that goes--Your ownership of anything I want renders you a pig, and pigs are unworthy of owning stuff. Give it over and nobody will get hurt. --- is a mindset that is addictive and leads to ruin.

833 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:15:09pm

re: #810 David Simon

By all means. Now a couple of questions for you:

How does being able to park ten feet closer to the entrance help them shop at the mall?

Why do parking spaces go unused just so they can be held open for people who are old, recovering from an illness, or just plain lazy and milking it?

Oh, for fuck's sake.

I hope that you're never in need of help along this line.

Oh, shut up, Mandy. You're about to pitch a major hissy-fit.

834 PSGInfinity  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:15:16pm

re: #812 MandyManners

No matter what's going on out there in the world,.. we still have bright, blessed day and dark, sacred night.

Best song ever?

835 Buster Bunny  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:15:20pm

There must have been a party in 2007 where some nuts decided 'sleeper' registration at LGF was the fun thing to do after a good night out on the town .. a couple of strippers .. and then various statements about how wonderful it was to be this drunk and still standing.

.... They just keep coming !

836 NukeAtomrod  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:15:28pm

re: #814 Last Mohican

It's disturbing, isn't it? And furthermore, from what I've read, nobody else at G20 felt the need to bow to the Saudi piece of shit king.

Note that I am NOT trying to argue that Obama is a secret Muslim! I just know that someone out there is trying to make that inference, and it ain't gonna be me.

Obama don't bow to chicks. The ladies all bow to him, G!

/ I think I'm kidding.

837 sleepyone  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:15:59pm

Good grief, I don't want to comment on this thread.


...... oh wait.

838 David Simon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:16:36pm

re: #826 NukeAtomrod

Not to be rude- or maybe to be rude- Isn't there some greater injustice for you to fight? Do you really care about this that much?

No, I don't. I'm simply answering a question. Is there a reason why you care?

839 Salem  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:16:47pm

Seems like another unusually tight-focused issue, but okay. Bush didn't beat the prince about the head so I guess he's no better than Obama, as long as you don't pull back and look at the bigger picture.

People are getting distraught about this current president and his strange statements, actions and attitudes. It's silly to say that Obama should be impeached for this thing in particular, sure, but when people are venting they are prone to exaggerate and in a casual environment they don't assume they are under oath or anything. I figure that point, that impeachment would be way out of proportion for this relative non-event, can be made without belaboring it, but whatever. I can't imagine taking it that seriously. After all, who on this forum has the power to actually bring impeachment proceedings? So who really cares?

And if anyone here does have such powers, I'll leave it to someone else to talk you out of it.

840 Taqiyyotomist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:16:52pm

re: #819 Claire

Anarchy? Seriously, which blogs are anarchist and right-wing? Simply curious, I don't get out much.......

It's just a matter of time before the inevitable redefinition of "Anarchy" to mean "opposing the Obama government". You know, like they did with "Racist" and "Fascist". Give it time.

841 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:16:54pm

re: #810 David Simon

By all means. Now a couple of questions for you:

How does being able to park ten feet closer to the entrance help them shop at the mall?

Why do parking spaces go unused just so they can be held open for people who are old, recovering from an illness, or just plain lazy and milking it?

Do you have any fucking idea how hard it is to get a placard/plate?

Good grief.

AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

842 itellu3times  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:17:08pm

re: #814 Last Mohican

It's disturbing, isn't it? And furthermore, from what I've read, nobody else at G20 felt the need to bow to the Saudi ... king.

Obama knows how to party.

843 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:17:38pm

This so fucking nuts. We have our own oil, coal and nuc power. Fuck the Saudis and the camel theyrode in on. Gas is going back up. How do I know? My neighbor is a geoligist on the North Slope. They just laid off a whole shit load of the exploration branch of his company. No money in finding oil you can't drill for.

844 Zimriel  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:17:38pm

Yep, a quick google on "prostrated himself before the Caliph" turns up the Arabian Nights, which mentions plenty of examples of prostration before the Caliph. That would be a story in public domain, the stuff every good Muslim knew was proper etiquette in 'Abbasid days.

845 PSGInfinity  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:17:56pm

re: #837 sleepyone

Good grief, I don't want to comment on this thread.
...... oh wait.

...Neither did I, until I realized an *entire thread* needed a whack with a fishwrap.

Sigh

846 Sharmuta  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:18:03pm

Handicapped parking isn't the problem. People driving for twenty minutes to get close to the door is the problem. Just park and walk and quit being lazy and wasting gas.

847 David Simon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:18:08pm

re: #833 MandyManners

Oh, for fuck's sake.

I hope that you're never in need of help along this line.

Oh, shut up, Mandy. You're about to pitch a major hissy-fit.

No, don't shut up. I'm not against helping the truly needy. Too many people abuse the program.

848 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:18:32pm

re: #810 David Simon

By all means. Now a couple of questions for you:

How does being able to park ten feet closer to the entrance help them shop at the mall?

Why do parking spaces go unused just so they can be held open for people who are old, recovering from an illness, or just plain lazy and milking it?

You should get down on your knees and thank God that you don't need one of those slots.

849 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:18:34pm

re: #715 Adrenalyn

gah !

and in Asian society people BOW
they do not shake hands


so what, we insult our Asian allies ?

I will say that I think there is a difference between bowing in a culture where it is done between equals as a sign of respect (much of Asia), and bowing in a culture where it is done inferior to superior (Britain, I suppose Saudi). In the Asian case, I think it's proper for an American to bow in greeting, in the English case, by long tradition not.

But I don't work for State.

850 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:18:38pm

re: #810 David Simon

How does being able to park ten feet closer to the entrance help them shop at the mall?

Spoken like someone for whom ambulating ten feet isn't much of a problem.

And sometimes it's not ten feet, it's three hundred feet closer to the entrance to the mall.

851 NukeAtomrod  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:18:48pm

re: #838 David Simon

No, I don't. I'm simply answering a question. Is there a reason why you care?

Not at all, good sir.

852 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:18:51pm

re: #810 David Simon

By all means. Now a couple of questions for you:

How does being able to park ten feet closer to the entrance help them shop at the mall?

Why do parking spaces go unused just so they can be held open for people who are old, recovering from an illness, or just plain lazy and milking it?

Not to be difficult, but my father had enough difficulty with walking that, without the handicapped spaces, he would not have been able to go shopping at the grocery store, go out to dinner, or bank, without the handicapped spaces.

It's not always obvious.

Oh, and when my autistic nephew was younger, the handicapped spaces made it a lot easier when my brother and his wife had to deal with a freaking-out kid. It contributed to everyone's safety and comfort.

The handicapped placard is abused. But it's not always a bad thing.

853 Last Mohican  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:19:17pm

re: #847 David Simon

Too many people abuse the program.

I agree.

854 Buster Bunny  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:19:21pm

i dre: #842 itellu3times

Obama knows how to party.

If you went to a school in Indonesia for a good portion of your growing up and the IDEALS of the class were something along the lines of 'mecca is great' and 'its ruled by his majesty King Abdullah' you'd end up with a certain either respect or awe for him.

It may just be what Obama was trained like that has him doing that.

Doesnt say I have to like it tho.

855 Gella  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:19:35pm

re: #846 Sharmuta

Handicapped parking isn't the problem. People driving for twenty minutes to get close to the door is the problem. Just park and walk and quit being lazy and wasting gas.

especially in front of health club

856 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:19:36pm

re: #817 HDrepub

Except for the Daily Kos, that one is okay with the MSM.

Not really. It gets held up as an absurd example, too.

857 Spare O'Lake  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:19:41pm

re: #841 MandyManners

{Mandy}

858 David Simon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:19:50pm

re: #841 MandyManners

Do you have any fucking idea how hard it is to get a placard/plate?

Good grief.

AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHH.

Hard to get, maybe. Easy to keep.

859 Zimriel  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:20:04pm

re: #827 Dianna

I know the Turks prostrated themselves to the Ottoman Emperor.
...
Maybe we're being silly?

I've given up arguing with fools and have settled back to what I'm good at, which is being pedantic about the early Middle Ages. So yeah, I'm being silly. :^)

860 MandyManners  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:21:17pm

I'm outta' here, folks.

Have a great week, Lizards!

Red roses, too!

Youtube Video
861 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:21:40pm

re: #819 Claire

Anarchy? Seriously, which blogs are anarchist and right-wing? Simply curious, I don't get out much.......

Wander into the comments sections of Ace, or Hot Air, or (hell!) here, some nights.

It's pretty chaotic and anarchic. Without being idealistically anarchist.

862 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:21:48pm

re: #860 MandyManners
Night Mandy!

863 lobo91  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:21:54pm

re: #843 pingjockey

This so fucking nuts. We have our own oil, coal and nuc power. Fuck the Saudis and the camel theyrode in on. Gas is going back up. How do I know? My neighbor is a geoligist on the North Slope. They just laid off a whole shit load of the exploration branch of his company. No money in finding oil you can't drill for.

Which is precisely why we need to invite the Martians to address a joint session of Congress.

864 hous bin pharteen  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:21:56pm

re: #841 MandyManners

My wife got one for me. I try not to use it to much. The excercise helps me. But some times I have to use it. Like in bad weather.

865 nyc redneck  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:22:18pm

re: #846 Sharmuta

Handicapped parking isn't the problem. People driving for twenty minutes to get close to the door is the problem. Just park and walk and quit being lazy and wasting gas.

exactly,
i always park as FAR away as i can. i like the exercise.

866 David Simon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:22:42pm

re: #852 Dianna

The handicapped placard is abused. But it's not always a bad thing.

Totally agree.

867 [deleted]  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:22:49pm
868 Zimriel  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:22:50pm

re: #810 David Simon

By all means. Now a couple of questions for you:

How does being able to park ten feet closer to the entrance help them shop at the mall?

Why do parking spaces go unused just so they can be held open for people who are old, recovering from an illness, or just plain lazy and milking it?

GAZE

869 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:23:24pm

re: #863 lobo91
I don't know. 'Ol Marvin just kept wanting to blow us up!

870 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:23:36pm

re: #776 capitalist piglet

Actually, I read last night via HotAir - someone gave me a news source -that President Bush actually didn't throw up on anyone else. He did, however, throw up on himself.

Not to nitpick...I was surprised to find that out, as I was under the same impression you were, because that's been the meme for so long.

Well, that's kind of a relief, at least for the guy he was supposed to have thrown up on. It must have been horribly embarassing for everyone, especially the president, though.

871 pingjockey  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:24:21pm

Hmm...cool man, a pot thread.

872 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:24:58pm

re: #847 David Simon

No, don't shut up. I'm not against helping the truly needy. Too many people abuse the program.

For Sale - Handicap placards - only $30.
Go here.

873 Dustyvet  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:25:58pm

re: #869 pingjockey

I don't know. 'Ol Marvin just kept wanting to blow us up!

"I'm going to blow it up. It obstructs my view of Venus."


Marvin The Martian

874 Claire  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:26:04pm

Arre: #861 Dianna

Gotcha.

875 tradewind  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:26:17pm

Bowing, curtsying, whatever....... they're just local , more formal versions of our handshake. I don't care if BHO bows or not. It's the ass-kissing that bothers me.

876 lostlakehiker  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:26:20pm

re: #810 David Simon

By all means. Now a couple of questions for you:

How does being able to park ten feet closer to the entrance help them shop at the mall?

Why do parking spaces go unused just so they can be held open for people who are old, recovering from an illness, or just plain lazy and milking it?


The value to the handicapped person of the parking space where they need it, when they need it, is considerable. The other parking spaces may be 50 yards out, and on a windy, wet, or icy day, that can be insuperable for a handicapped person.

The inconvenience to everybody else amounts to merely this: each person must park some fraction of one space further from the store entrance---details depend on how many parking rows are in play.

877 lobo91  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:26:34pm

re: #869 pingjockey

I don't know. 'Ol Marvin just kept wanting to blow us up!

President Dale: I want the people to know that they still have 2 out of 3 branches of the government working for them, and that ain't bad.

878 NY Nana  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:26:40pm

re: #810 David Simon

I am disabled, and I dug you down for that cruel, cold uncaring post.

If it was not for the handicap parking spots, I would never get out of the house. We cannot park in one in NYC, unless I appear before a board to approve it, even though my tag was approved by my MD and is a NYS tag.

In London and Toronto, we never had to pay for being in a handicap spot, or a parking lot, nor put money in a meter, etc. In Canada, we had our NY license plate and in London, a rented car, with my NYS tag.

There have been numerous times that I had to stay in the car, as all the handicap spots were taken. Many places do not have nearly enough reserved spots, and yes, they do make a difference, as I personally can attest to.

Do you have the ability to walk in another person's shoes, and understand what their life is like? Apparently not. It is called rachmonet in Hebrew.

No one can tell what the future has in store. No one.

879 Adrenalyn  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:26:47pm

re: #822 Iron Fist

They do things a bit different in kung fu, although in open copmpetitions they tend to go with the near mandatory bow if for no other reason than that your judge may not know what you are doing, and write down his score based on that. In a similar vein, one year at Blue Grass Nationals, after the competition was settled (IIRC I got third place on forms) two of my judges had a dispute about my form. The form I did was Seisan Kata, a moderately complex form. The debate between the judges centered about at what level was I taught that particuloarly form. I told them (truthfully) that it was one of the first kata we learned. It was a black belt level form in the style he practiced, while the female judge had thought it was one of the first I was taught.

It is kind of both. Isshinryu is a fairly modern style of karate. It borrows heavily from Naha Te, Shuri Te, and one other indigenous art. It has gone on to add in such things as brazillian jujitsu, small circle jujitsu,some from Torite Jutsu (pressurepoint fighting) and a host of other innovations from its original Okinawan roots. This has caused even the best instructores to throw up their hands and schism (I'm getting pretty far afield here. Gotta love Ambien :-).

The short answer was that they were both correct: in some styles of karate Seisan is a black belt level form. In the style I practice, Seisan is one of the first (if not the first) katas that we are taught.

hey, no worry mate!
all styles are different
the other thing that makes one better than the others is the participant

and my own quote

"he who strikes first, strikes best"

pretty much sums it up

because in all arts, there are practical applications
but in two equally matched opponents
it is the first to strike with the advantage
even in unequally matched, it can affect the outcome

880 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:27:05pm

re: #866 David Simon

Totally agree.

Then you need to be a little more careful in your statements - that prior comment set a lot of people off.

881 Claire  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:27:23pm

re: #865 nyc redneck

Me too- plus it cuts down on the door dings-

882 Dustyvet  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:27:53pm

re: #873 Dustyvet

"I'm going to blow it up. It obstructs my view of Venus."

Marvin The Martian

"Where's the kaboom? There was supposed to be an Earth shattering kaboom? The the eludium pu36 explosive space modulator. That creature has stolen the space modulator. Delays, delays. Capture that creature, and return the eludium pu36 explosive space modulator!"

Marvin The Martian

883 NY Nana  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:27:57pm

re: #826 NukeAtomrod

Thank you.

884 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:27:58pm

re: #867 Iron Fist

Eep! I downdinged when all I meant to do was say goodnight! Sorry!

885 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:28:12pm

re: #878 NY Nana

Who didn't see this post coming?

886 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:29:38pm

re: #810 David Simon

By all means. Now a couple of questions for you:

How does being able to park ten feet closer to the entrance help them shop at the mall?

Why do parking spaces go unused just so they can be held open for people who are old, recovering from an illness, or just plain lazy and milking it?

You think those are the three categories of people using handicapped spaces?

People with mobility problems have trouble getting across a big parking lot that I, and I presume you, don't have trouble with. So we reserve them spaces nearer to the entrances. Occasionally, this may mean that a space goes unused, but...eh? Whatever.

887 pat  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:31:03pm

re: #771 Charles

The ONLY people who've even noticed this are right-wing bloggers in the US. Not a single Arab media source has even mentioned it.

There have been no Arab media reports I have seen as yet, and i read a couple Arab papers an an irregular basis. As for the reporting, I learned about this from the British press who did make something of it. I still believe that Obama has failed to avail himself of the State's protocol office. he is relying on ham-fisted amateurs who are winging it.

888 Dianna  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:31:16pm

The new thread involves a subject I am not discussing, because people are going to land on me as intolerant and prissy.

Only the first is true, so I'm going to sign off.

Night, all!

889 Zimriel  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:31:23pm

re: #880 Dianna

Then you need to be a little more careful in your statements - that prior comment set a lot of people off.

I assumed Asberger's... and self [deleted] what was on my mind.

Re, handicapped spaces: my ex gf had a back problem, and yes, we needed the handicapped spaces so we could totter a few less steps to the movie theatre. The back problem was, praise the Almighty, eventually fixed.

Did I mention I self [deleted] what was on my mind when I read his post?

890 SanFranciscoZionist  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:31:26pm

re: #834 PSGInfinity

Best song ever?

I want it played at my funeral.

891 avspatti  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:36:21pm

re: #129 David Simon

Sometimes, the choice isn't between good and bad; it's between bad and worse. Like it or not, KSA (like Pakistan, Egypt et al) is a nominal ally in the WOT. If we overthrow the royal family...what happens?

Look what happened after the Shah for your answer.

892 PSGInfinity  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:38:32pm

re: #890 SanFranciscoZionist

I want it played at my funeral.

Thanks for the upding! I can't grant that wish, but tell ya' what: if/when we get to Heaven, let's shake Satchmo's hand together...

893 traderjoe9  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:41:36pm

re: #876 lostlakehiker

The value to the handicapped person of the parking space where they need it, when they need it, is considerable. The other parking spaces may be 50 yards out, and on a windy, wet, or icy day, that can be insuperable for a handicapped person.

The inconvenience to everybody else amounts to merely this: each person must park some fraction of one space further from the store entrance---details depend on how many parking rows are in play.

It's not even worthy of an argument. It's called courtesy.

Besides, who is he to know the conditions of the handicapped person? Like you said, the weather could be bad outside. Or the person could simply rely on using a cart to lean on while the shop and keep their balance, or someone who plans to use one of those electric cars that some stores have. There could be an enormous amount of health reasons why someone might need a handicapped parking spot. If several spots have to be given up for that cause, then who gives a fuck. Be fucking happy that you're healthy.

894 NY Nana  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:44:05pm

re: #841 MandyManners

{{{{{{ Mandy }}}}}}

Bless you. Yes, it is hard to get one, and I wish it was not needed, but am so glad that there at least is a system in place.

895 NY Nana  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:47:22pm

re: #893 traderjoe9

Thank you for your rachmonet.

896 capitalist piglet  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:50:37pm

re: #870 SanFranciscoZionist

Well, that's kind of a relief, at least for the guy he was supposed to have thrown up on. It must have been horribly embarassing for everyone, especially the president, though.

Yes, definitely - he was apparently quite sick.

I believed he had thrown up on this man because the distorted version was the only version I'd ever heard, a bit like the business about Palin seeing Alaska from her house. Though there's not a great deal of distinction here, I'm glad to know what really happened.

897 avspatti  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:57:05pm

re: #813 voluble

And just what was Bush supposed to have done? I guess he could have stood straight and made the guy jump up and down or run off and get a stool? He could have told him to shove the medal? That probably wouldn't be the wisest choice when dealing with the provider of a crucial natural resource. Especially one that we are not allowed to produce at home and that we need to keep our troops in the field. There certainly would have been a lot of support for picking another fight in the middle east.

If someone wants to make an argument that Bush liberating 50 million people and fighting the jihadists on multiple fronts is the same as Obama making kiss-kiss with the Iranians and hanging our allies out to dry across the globe because both presidents were nice to the provider of a vital resource then they can do it. But mislabeling a picture for public consumption is not the way to go. Bush did enough bad things without having to make up more.

Now if you tell me the medal was for killing efforts to allow off-shore drilling in the US I may have another opinion.

Well, if people will notice, Olympic champions "bow" when receiving their medals. Bush got his medal from the old king before Abdulla. That king was really old and probably couldn't jump up! LOL BTW, King Abdulla is no spring chicken himself; he's 88, I think.

898 hous bin pharteen  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 8:57:51pm

re: #886 SanFranciscoZionist

Handicapped have trouble crossing the parking lot. I do sometimes. You get morons driving faster in the parking lot, and then go slower out in the street!
It is allot better for people to park next to the curb then cross the parking lot when they have trouble walking. At least in the mall or grocery store they can only be hit by shopping carts of idiots walking through the mall. As normal people, you don't notice it much, but being handicapped for a time, then you realize how stupid people behave sometimes.

899 unrealizedviewpoint  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 9:00:01pm

Nana's a nice lady. You should give her your parking space David.

900 NY Nana  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 9:00:50pm

re: #885 unrealizedviewpoint

Who didn't see this post coming?

I should have seen it coming, damn it.

/Does the schmuck think that people sit there hoping to become disabled in order to get a handicap parking space?

901 Dark_Falcon  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 9:01:53pm

Hi, all. I'm going to stay off the next thread for now, so I'm here. Really bad weather here in Chicago tonight.

902 traderjoe9  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 9:01:56pm

I'll admit it - I'm not without sin. I sometimes use my grandmothers handicapped sign....

903 wordsworth  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 9:04:14pm

There is nothing compelling about the Bush did it too argument...
Plus there really is a difference.......in that this happened on the heels of Obama not following protocol with other world leaders.

Obama also made Bush's relationship with the Saudi's one of his billion campaign issues so continuing it is yet one more breach of the platform he ran on.

904 NavyGunner  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 9:05:29pm

Impeach its gas tanks? I must be a tad slow tonight.

905 saxonman  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 9:29:03pm

Obama bowed, deeply from the waist in a sign of deference that we in the west do not understand, but they certainly do in dar al islam. Did Sarkozy bow, did Merkel bow? I think not. And why is it that no MSM printed the photo? I can only imagine how many times it was shown on Al Jazeera. Obama will pander and grovel before the feet of the beasts like no other president has before him. And this is only the beginning.

906 deanayer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 9:47:37pm

Bending down so the short little dictator can put a necklace on you is not the same as keeling over in deference like a sycophant the way Obama did.

In the Bush case he is receiving some kind of recognition in the Obama case he is the one providing the gift - the gift was submission.

907 Eclectic Infidel  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 9:57:12pm

re: #25 modnar

Is this really comparable to Obama? Obama just straight-up bowed. In this video Bush is receiving some kind of medallion necklace. It's quite common for people bow so the person awarding the honor can get it over their head and around the neck. Unless the person awarding the gift is Yao Ming or something.

It's not necessary to discern nuances with the behaviors of former President Bush and current President Obama. Let's say Obama bowed and Bush danced and be done with it. At the end of the day, both presidents paid homage to the Kingdom of Saud because of black gold, Texas tea.

It will be a glorious day in the United States when we have the best state-of-the-art, top notch public transportation on the globe that runs on alternative energy. We can make it reliable, safe and efficient. We can.

908 Old Engineer  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 9:59:10pm

When I first cogitated on this matter I thought "I would bow too if that helped keep a supply of oil coming to us to meet our needs.". Then I thought again, and realized the Saudis need our money as badly as we need their oil. It seems to me that it is a reasonable tradeoff. The bowing is merely a form of greeting there. No point is getting your pants in a twist over it. Just keep the oil coming. When we don't have to depend on the desert dwellers, only then we can afford to snub them. Not now.
Old Engineer

909 Wetfun  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 10:03:59pm

Charles:
The problem is not our gas tanks, but our unwillingness to face up to our energy requirements and the will to do something about it that actually would work.

910 Adrenalyn  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 10:12:44pm

re: #908 Old Engineer

When I first cogitated on this matter I thought "I would bow too if that helped keep a supply of oil coming to us to meet our needs.". Then I thought again, and realized the Saudis need our money as badly as we need their oil. It seems to me that it is a reasonable tradeoff. The bowing is merely a form of greeting there. No point is getting your pants in a twist over it. Just keep the oil coming. When we don't have to depend on the desert dwellers, only then we can afford to snub them. Not now.
Old Engineer


they depend not only on our money
but our protection (think NAVY, tankers, etc....)
and our food and medicine

(not to mention our military keeping Iran at bay and their own indigenous militancy)

911 Turtler  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 10:24:33pm

OK Charles, I realize that you are probably not going to like this, but here me out.

Firstly, YES I get the point: that Bush and many presidents before him had to symbolically Walk to Riyadh in order to fulfill their diplomatic duties, and that this is distasteful to the extreme but necessary.

That being said, the thread title is still disingenuous. No buts. And here's why:

A. There is a fine line between bowing one's head to recieve a medal and bowing in greeting. Do not think that we do not notice this, and do not notice that the audience that REALLY matters -the Jihadists- have either.

B. You defend yourself against charges of disingenuously naming the thread by pointing out that you asked people to watch the video first.

However, when most people put "Bush Bowed Too", "Obama Bows to Saudis", etc and than has "click image to watch", you expect to see Bush or Obama doing a clear and indisputable bow, not to merely have one crane their neck for a medal.

And I will not insult your intelligence by even positing the idea that you meant to do anything else when you titled this thread the way you did.

Do you have a point?

Absolutely.

But it is buried under hyperbole and indefensible rustication.

If Bush OR Obama were to have done these very same neck movements to recieve an award from the British government or another friendly government, would you be throwing HALF a stink as you are now?

No. And Neither Would I. And for good reason.

You do nothing but disservice to your cause by trying to hammer this square peg into this triangle cutout and defending yourself by symbolic metaphors rather than real, concrete motions. And the same goes to those advocating Obama be lynched for his indisputable BOW to the Saudis. As you pointed out, it is hardly the worst thing he has done so far, and might as well symbolize a century of Western pandering to he House of Saud in particular and despotic regimes in general for the greater good.

But you needlessly weaken your point by replying in a smart-Aleck fashion about it "looking like a bow" to you- something that is instantly deflated when you view pictures, video, or paintings of Presidents receiving foreign decorations- and most of them craning their necks to do so- from Allied or "Allied" nations, some of them monarchies, and some of them having to go far further and to "airkiss" more than Bush did in this picture.

Cont.

912 LC LaWedgie  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 10:32:02pm

Let's see, legalize MJ and make the Mexican Mafia legally rich, or put gas in the ol' hot rod... that could really be a hard choice.
I guess that I'd rather get to work and stuff and watch IRL & NASCAR rather than wander around in a fog and watch Penn & Teller.
I guess I'm broken.

913 Turtler  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 10:33:40pm

And your hyperbole as to this being "exactly" like Obama also misses a key point.

This is not how it is seen by the single most important audience of this, the audience that matters above all.

Not the West.

Not the Chinese.

Not the Russians.

Not the Yanomamo Tribe.

But the Jihadists themselves.

Bush's antics with Sword and with this may be unpleasant, but they were clearly in his duties as a sovereign and independent head of state, albeit one who has to pander to unpleasant "Allies."

Obama's bow and ring kiss, on the other hand, is a clear and global sign of submission. It was seen that way in Europe, Feudal/Imperial Japan, Imperial China, and the Muslim Monarchies of old.

So it is hardly ambiguous in meaning or connotations.

And while I would LIKE to think that Obama's bow was a jab at the Saudis for their religious law forbidding it, Obama's reasons for doing so are moot given how this WILL be taken.

Bush's antics- indefensible as they were- merely allowed the Jihadis to paint the Saudis as collaborators with the Infidel or as the masterminds behind the Great Satan.

Obama's bow, on the other hand, shows the leader of the Western World in apparent submission to the keeper of Mecca and Medina- a fact that gets the Saudis some degree of respect from both Sunnis and Shiites- and thus (as the Islamists see it) to Islam symbolically.

They've already begun to pass it around the net in triumph, something that even these videos never got to the point of being (and yes, I have seen the SD and this on Jihadists websites).

To claim that these are somehow equivalent is beyond laughable: they both betray a problem, but on entirely different levels.

Believe it or not, but I actually AGREE with you on this more than I disagree. But one of the first lessons I learned in debate club is that you don't try and convey your argument using comparisons that are liable to blow up in your face, as yours clearly did with much of the commenting population here.

You have an all too valid and tragic point here. You could do it more justice by not resorting to thin equivocations on this.

And, to answer your questions about if Obama were to receive the King Abdul Aziz Order of Merit, I would first have to ask why he is being so "honored."

Is it because (humor my hypotheticals for a moment) the Nirthers and CO are actually right about Obama being a sleeper Islamist agent who, after his discovery and defection fled to Saudi Arabia and was awarded this for his damaging of the West?

In that case, the only honorable response to him, or to ANY who would do such a thing, must be delivered to the head at high velocities as the reward for treason.

But, if back in the real world, Obama was to awarded this waste of perfectly good metal for some symbolic reason like Bush was, than I would not blink. Part of the job of being POTUS is to manage diplomacy with other nations, and in the course of that, Obama would have to do so, and I can bear him no additional ill will for doing so.

And, more importantly, it could hardly give the Jihadi propagandists the Grade A ammunition he handed to them with his bow, or that Bush did with a few of his actions, etc.

There, I've said it, and I shall own all of it, for better or worse.

914 Charles Johnson  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 10:37:31pm

Denial is a powerful drug.

915 Turtler  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 10:57:49pm
Denial is a powerful drug.

Apparently, you didn't read what I said, did I?

916 free  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 10:59:00pm

Bending over to have a medal put on is in no way the same as what Obama did.

917 Turtler  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 10:59:03pm

#915

Second I= you.

918 Colonel Panik  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 11:07:23pm

re: #447 Dianna

So why are we so paralyzed? There ought to be a pretty obvious alliance between the energy independence crowd and the greens. Yet those two parties are at daggers' drawn.

Because the greens have been blocking our path to energy independence for years. Opposing nuclear and offshore drilling. Using their stooges in Hollywood to demonize both the oil and nuclear industries.

Their agenda is "enviro-guilt free" energy, not energy independence.

I don't have any problem with solar, wind, hydro or biodiesel. But if the greens think we are going to run the entire American economy on just those sources alone, they are smoking something green.

919 horse  Sun, Apr 5, 2009 11:19:36pm

The Saudis are both an authoritarian regime and our "allies" of convenience in the region. We saved their behinds back in 90-91, and have provided them all the military hardware and training their petro dollars could buy. They do appreciate what we have done for them and have provided many awards and medals to our military members and government leaders. The medals come on a ribbon and are placed around your head. You bow your head forward so the medal can be placed around your neck; it's not a big deal and is not a "bow" to the person presenting you the medal.

However, the Saudis are about as alien of a culture on this planet as we could find from our own and have laws and customs that can only be described as barbaric and depraved. I spent some extended military time there and interacted with both their military, government, and local businesses (all males of course). It is a schizophrenic and barely stable society with one face west and one face in the sand. On the one hand they have western chains like KFC, but they are divided into two, males on one side, families on the other, with women always trapped in their "ninja" outfits as we called them.

We don't want them going Iran or Pakistan on us, and the world does need the oil under their ground for the next 10-20 years, but being so closely allied with an authoritarian regime with such practices and some major strategic objectives conflicting with our own is just not acceptable. The most viable solution to this tar pit relationship is getting off the petro teat and cleansing ourselves of their residue as quickly as possible. If anything, Obama has shown he really isn't about fixing anything when it comes to our most troubling international relationships. Indeed, he seems to be on a path to making most of them even more troubling.

920 Seax  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 2:44:57am

I always thought that in the Arab Middle East you greeted
someone you are equal to with (and knew well), with the cheek kiss/huggy thing...
Example:-."Ahh Achmed good to see you etc etc 'kiss kiss' blah blah blah 'huggy thing' and how is you father, bless his cotton socks...and your second cousin twice removed etc etc..."
But if you were greeting a person of much higher rank that could
clap your ass in irons, remove body parts , make life a tad bit miserable etc etc ( think of a lowly Marsh Arab Iraqi meeting the late Mr Saddam Hussein) - or you wanted to submit to/butter up etc etc
You would bow low...real Low..like ..like ...like
well like the "0" did to the Saudi King.
But then again we could be actually missing the obvious
...and the guy really is an idiot. LOL !

921 Miles  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 3:09:46am

re: #919 horse

Most excellent post. During Desert Storm, we were sent some CARE packages that included the ultimate contraband, The Holy Bible, which somehow made it through the censors and prompted an immediate response from our illustrious cadre, who advised us of the seriousness of the situation, while protecting the Saudi's sensitive behinds from SCUD-punting Saddam, at the time.

Anyway...

There was a female medical specialist who asked me if I wanted to leave base and walk around in downtown Nowhereistan with a few of her male friends, one evening. I was under the weather and decided to spend the rest of the day relaxing with a Stephen King book.

Now, she had long(er) hair and breasts, but otherwise, you'd have to practically do a full exam to confirm her gender. Think Jay Leno's chin, along with the birth-control glasses and a gait of Godzilla and the mouth of a sailor. Beautiful woman to a deaf, dumb and blind kid. In other words, just another US Army soldier.

Apparently, she was spotted by one of the "Religious Police", who proceeded to slap her on the back of her thighs with his enlightenment stick, for not wearing ninja attire. Being the pitbull that she was, this woman turned on that guy and he (as I was told), ran away screaming some Arabic complaints in a high-pitched voice. And what's the deal with Arab's yelling? Why is it that the Saudi's are always yelling? It's like they're all deaf.

Sorry for the blatant waste of bandwidth. It's early and I haven't had a sufficient amount of caffeine, yet.

Good morning, though!

922 Cdat88  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 3:49:40am

re: #62 Charles

So anyone who accepts an award from Saudi Arabia is bad Charles? Does that include those of us who received this?

923 eaglewingz08  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 3:57:06am

This is the most disingenuous thread I've seen on LGF for many a year. To equate BUSH's bending (NOT BOWING) the head to receive a medal, with Obama's obsequious BOW from the WAIST with his hand across his waist, while HOLDING the hand of the SAUDI KING, and bending one's face to KISS the HAND of the SAUDI KING is ridiculous. Whether we should have relations with Saudi Arabia at the present time is a different issue.
Since we are not about to get rid of the anti energy democraps in Congress and certainly not a filibuster proof Repub majority that would allow us to drill here drill now, we could not afford to alienate Saudi Arabia in the near term. Anyone here who believes that we should alienate the Saudi King, before we have had a drill here drill now policy in place is as naive as Obama seeking a nuke free world. In a just world the troglydite wahabbis would be sand eaters without any power to influence anything in the world. But the fact is that God, whatever His purpose, has planted a precious commodity there, that the modern world runs on. You may not like it, but until you make either the west oil independent either through a miracle, or through energy policies, then carping about any President maintaining civil relations with such countries is asinine. However CIVIL relations is NOT BOWING and SCRAPING or screwing up PROTOCOL which is ONLY SLIGHTLY INCLINING the HEAD and NECK to indicate acceptance of a head of state. IT IS NOT BOWING FROM THE WAIST SO THAT YOUR HEAD IS AT THE KING'S GROIN as OBAMA NOT BUSH did on this occasion. You cannot whitewash this away, no more than we could whitewash Bush's handholding or mankiss (nor should we). Bush was wrong to mankiss the King, Obama was wrong to act servilely with bowing.

924 Rusky123  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 4:15:43am

Why does it matter that Bush also bowed to King Abdullah?
To use the age old saying about jumping off of a cliff - if someone else jumps off the cliff first, does that make jumping off of the cliff less of a stupid idea?
I'm not saying that Bush was right - he was wrong - and we should free our gas tanks from these Arabs, but Obama's actions are in no way justified by the fact that Bush did the same thing. After all, if Obama passed a Sedition act, forbidding offensive speech against government officials, would we say "that's not so bad..." simply because President John Adams had already done so in 1798?
Obama should not be impeached - there is nothing treasonous or against the law in bowing to a foreign leader - but the action shows an attitude that Obama is developing that should not make us happy to have him as a president.
And - this whole idea that what he does is okay simply because someone else already did it - nonsense in the highest possible degree.

925 tryptic67  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 4:32:15am

The difference between George Walker Bush bending to receive some award (followed by air kisses and masculine handshake) and Barack Hussein Obama performing full-on obsequious bent-waist homage to a sovereign is not even close. To paraphrase the incomparable Jules Winfield (as brilliantly played by Samuel L. Jackson):

[It] ain't the same [deleted ] ballpark, it ain't the same league, it ain't even the same [deleted] sport.

926 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 5:35:40am
927 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 5:50:11am
928 Joel  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 6:00:31am

re: #62 Charles

Personally, I find it as disgusting, if not more so, that Bush accepted an award from these people. He bowed to accept an award from the most repressive theocracy on the planet.

Oh, I forgot. Obama is evil.

Obama is not evil, he is an ideologue who is in way over his head. American presidents of both Democratic and Republican persuasions have been Lewinskying the Saudis for almost 65 years.

929 meh130  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 6:05:53am

It is allowed for one head of state to lower one's head to another head of state receive a medal which is hung around the neck.

From my years in the military, I have forgotten more than I remember in the area of foreign protocol. But it is amazing how much one does pick up, and retain. I do recall somewhere something about receiving an award hung around the neck from a foreign government. I do remember that avoiding excessive bending at the waist was one of the guidelines. I seem to recall something about receiving an medal from an much shorter presenter, too, but I do not remember the protocol there.

Obama made a mistake, a protocol faux pas. That is a fact. To make a protocol mistake as President can be bad, because it can send a wrong message to both our friends and enemies around the globe. Personally, I think Obama's head nod to the Queen was way to close to a head bow.

The important thing here the President is a head of state. Therefore, in terms of international relations, he is equal to the Queen Elizabeth, and equal to King Abdulla. One head of state does not bow to another.

There are "don'ts" in the world of protocol. Sometimes, no matter how personally friendly you are, or how much you want to do something, or how jet lagged you are, you don't, because of the signal it will send. Protocol is all about such signals.

This should be chalked up as a protocol error likely due to Obama not having good help in this area. Which is not unusual given this trip is only 60 days into his presidency, and a change in parties occurred, so there were no holdover appointees in the protocol office.

930 Joel  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 6:15:02am

Someone on Hotair posted this (sounds prescient to me)

we’ll all be speaking Esperanto soon anyway. His Overlord, Soros, is one of the few native speakers, and pushes its acceptance

931 Aye Pod  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 6:27:57am

re: #926 OneGyT

I used to read LGF all the time. I'm really glad I pivoted to HotAir. I don't remember Charles being so disingenuous when I read LGF a lot.

By the way, remember at the end of Star Wars when Han and Luke bowed to the people giving them their medals? No? Right, because THEY DIDN'T BOW. They leaned forward to receive their medals, as Bush was doing.

You can say the US has been subservient for too long, you can say Bush was weak in the knees, you can say he shouldn't have accepted a medal from them. That's all fine and dandy. But don't lie about him bowing. And that's exactly what you're doing.

Don't you see that bending down to recieve a shiny present from someone legitimizes and endorses that persons authority more, if anything, than a mere bow anyway? No, because it seems unfortunately that you're the kind of moron who finds the extra thinking required at LGF to be altogether too much. Go back to Hot Air, they need every idiot they can get.

932 Doda McCheesle  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 6:48:35am

re: #9 zombie

Is it possible to slant-drill from 8,000 miles away?

About 15 years ago I read an article about a guy in Israel who had a dream about a verse in the Bible that talked about "oil under the feet" in some specific location in Israel. The guy pursued putting together the resources and permits to do a test drilling in that location...

And found oil.

But not just any oil. Oil that was identical to that found under Saudi Arabia (i.e., tapped from the same field).

Israeli govt. then suddenly outlawed drilling in this location, declaring it a wild life preserve.

I will attempt to find more info and post.

933 Doda McCheesle  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 6:55:31am

OK, here's one link to more info on what I remembered hearing about. It's still not necessarily a reliable source of info, so I'm searching for more...

[Link: www.thepropheticyears.com...]

934 Joel  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 6:58:09am

re: #931 Jimmah

Don't you see that bending down to recieve a shiny present from someone legitimizes and endorses that persons authority more, if anything, than a mere bow anyway? No, because it seems unfortunately that you're the kind of moron who finds the extra thinking required at LGF to be altogether too much. Go back to Hot Air, they need every idiot they can get.

Way too harsh. The post was "Bush bowed too" and Bush was not bowing. I agree that the Saudi's are odious to all civilized mankind but Bush was not bowing to them (although I would not put it past him and his family to bow to the House of Saud.).

935 Doda McCheesle  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 6:59:14am

OK, here's info from Givat Olam Oil company web site:

[Link: www.givot.co.il...]

A map showing oil field placement in the Middle East, showing how same deposits under Saudi Arabia also reach under Israel. Could Israel tapping into this precipitate WWIII?

936 tryptic67  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 7:18:58am

931 ... classy post, Jimmah. Everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. Or, perhaps, everyone who disagrees with Charles is an idiot because you're here to toe the party line?

I won't insult your intelligence by assuming you actually believe (a) receiving some meaningless medal while visiting a foreign monarch after having met him numerous times before is the equivalent of a (b) fawning, unprecedented, eyes-down bow when meeting a monarch for the first time. I'll just assume you disfavor disagreement with management - sort of like it is on Andrew's blog these days.

I quake with fear to see the next act of submission from Obama to the House of Ibn Saud. Perhaps he'll give Abdullah a Kindle(TM) with a copy of his birth certificate on it [certified only, of course] [snark]

Note that while watching the video of the photo-op prep - when all the G-20 heads do one of those stupid photographs where they all line up and smile - who in their right mind would keep a copy of that (?), I failed to see Barack bow to anyone else OR anyone else bow to Abdullah. Hmmmmmm .... what message was being sent?

937 tryptic67  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 7:25:51am

PS - and yes, I know Sully doesn't "do" comments ... but he does love to post fan e-mails from those who follow his socio-economic-political contortions with aplomb. Thank you for allowing me to clean up that apparent non sequitur.

PPS - no, I am not a "nirther" despite my little snark line. No need for any one to get agitated on my account on that issue. As a lawyer, I routinely ignore the probative value of original documents for a living.

PPPS - yes. In case there is any question on the subject, am an idiot too. You can just ask my wife.

938 A.W.  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 7:35:04am

Mmm, bending forward to recieve a medal is not the same as bowing. Apparently this saudi guy is really, really short.

And, bluntly, it doesn't quite mean the same thing when Bush "bows" to a man, when everyone knows that Bush wouldn't hesitate to kick the guy's ass if necessary. When you carry a big stick, you can speak much more softly. I would say the real equivalent is bush holding hands with the saudis, literally.

But then i wasn't up in arms about Obama's bow either. more depressed really.

939 SlothB77  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 7:42:53am

I am surprised LGF did not post a thread on the Obama arrogant comments last Friday. I would think apologizing for and trashing America would upset a lot of idiotarians. apparently not.

940 pcalver  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 7:44:19am

Charles,
I'm surprised that you try to make this physical gesture to accept an award the equivalent of an honorific bow to a royal. They are not the same, and as the previous commenter stated, Bush and his administration bowed to NO ONE. Obama, not so much.

941 A.W.  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 7:44:47am

Btw, IMAO points out that technically Obama didn't bow. he bent his knee. So that's technically a courtsy.

So there, don't you feel better?

942 Red Lion  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 7:45:02am

Once again, Charles calls a spade a spade. Way to keep the crazies honest, Charles!

943 geckomon  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 7:50:42am

Another reader appalled by the intellectual dishonesty.

Bush is bending over to receive a medal. He is not "bowing," as in genuflecting. Really. Is this your evidence of non-precedent by our "non"-president?

This site is growing weak.

944 tryptic67  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 7:53:44am

941 - it looked to me more like he fell of balance and had to do the leg kick thing to keep from tipping over than a curtsy (which is sort of a incline the head and genuflect, rather than a bend at the waist thing). Obama loves hoops - maybe he can say he was trying to draw a charge from Ibn Saud.

Or something.

945 Zimriel  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 7:57:14am

Jeff Goldstein has decided to turn his place into a stalkerblog over this. And he's again calling us a bunch of sycophants.

946 Aye Pod  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 7:57:46am

re: #934 Joel

Way too harsh.

Oh sure, those who post comments like the following deserve to be treated with respect?:

I used to read LGF all the time. I'm really glad I pivoted to HotAir. I don't remember Charles being so disingenuous when I read LGF a lot.

Pathetic.

The post was "Bush bowed too" and Bush was not bowing. I agree that the Saudi's are odious to all civilized mankind but Bush was not bowing to them (although I would not put it past him and his family to bow to the House of Saud.)

The point is not whether Bush technically speaking bowed, the point is that both Obama and Bush played the game of treating the Saudis with the deference one would rather not see given to leaders of such a state. It's a game played by both Republiucan and Democrat presidents. Those on either side who are blindly partisan choose, in the face of the evidence, to believe that only their political opponents would stoop to such behaviour, but the facts say otherwise.

947 Zimriel  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 8:01:27am

re: #932 Doda McCheesle

About 15 years ago I read an article about a guy in Israel who had a dream about a verse in the Bible that talked about "oil under the feet" in some specific location in Israel.

The Bible's also been put to good effect by the Israeli Army, when they used descriptions of ancient battles to plot out modern tactics. They reasoned that the Bible was about the land of Israel, and that the topography hasn't changed since then.

The Arabs figured they didn't need no Jew bible as it has been abrogated by the Qur'an, and besides the Jews forged all that stuff to stake a claim to the land.

The battles ended in their predictably amusing fashion.

948 Aye Pod  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 8:07:07am

re: #936 tryptic67

931 ... classy post, Jimmah. Everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot.

Where did I say that everyone who disagrees with me is an idiot?

Or, perhaps, everyone who disagrees with Charles is an idiot because you're here to toe the party line?

Another stupid strawman argument. I've been arguing against this kind of blindly partisan view, whether from the right or the left, consistently, and independently of Charles or anyone else.

949 A.W.  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 8:07:40am

Jimmah

Yes, actually he did deserve to be treated with respect. It was a low class moment for you, one of many.

950 Zimriel  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 8:07:58am

re: #922 Cdat88

So anyone who accepts an award from Saudi Arabia is bad Charles? Does that include those of us who received this?

I am not going to downding this; it's a good point.

First, we didn't know back then that Wahhabism was going to hit us so hard, as they were still our allies, or potential allies, against Iraq, Iran, and the Soviets; second, you'd received an order from your superiors to accept the thing. I don't think any less of the grunts who accepted that medal.

Knowing what I know now, I'd say the brass should not have allowed their soldiers to accept a medal from Saudi, or Kuwait, or any other unfree nation. The war wasn't about them anyway.

951 Aye Pod  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 8:12:53am

re: #949 A.W.

Jimmah

Yes, actually he did deserve to be treated with respect. It was a low class moment for you, one of many.

From the post in question:

I used to read LGF all the time. I'm really glad I pivoted to HotAir. I don't remember Charles being so disingenuous when I read LGF a lot.

So calling our host a liar and shitting on LGF deserves respect? And you want to try to lecture others about low-class behaviour? Wow...

952 Aye Pod  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 8:15:00am

re: #950 Zimriel

I downdinged it because it's a strawman.

953 A.W.  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 8:17:13am

Jimmah

Well, i am sorry that he isn't sufficiently sucking up to charles, iyao. (in your arrogant opinion).

some of us think Charles is a big boy who can stand up to criticism.

But hey, i am sure it would be an exciting discussion if everyone debated about whether Charles is totally awesome or totally fucking awesome.

I would never sell the guy so far short to think he wants or expects everyone to agree with him all the time.

954 Aye Pod  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 8:21:52am

re: #919 horse

You bow your head forward so the medal can be placed around your neck; it's not a big deal and is not a "bow" to the person presenting you the medal.

It's not about the neck-action, it's about the whole business of showing deference to, and endorsing the authority of, a regime we'd all much rather be helping to dismantle, or at least keeping at arms length. Both Republican and Democrat presidents have a history of playing this game. It's not for either side to claim that the submissiveness and acceptance is all on one side.

955 Al in St. Lou  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 8:25:02am

re: #109 Sharmuta

If his bow meant "I am your obedient servant," then it should be impeachable.

956 Aye Pod  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 8:36:05am

re: #953 A.W.

Jimmah

Well, i am sorry that he isn't sufficiently sucking up to charles, iyao. (in your arrogant opinion).

some of us think Charles is a big boy who can stand up to criticism.

But hey, i am sure it would be an exciting discussion if everyone debated about whether Charles is totally awesome or totally fucking awesome.

I would never sell the guy so far short to think he wants or expects everyone to agree with him all the time.

More pathetic strawman-strewn idiocy. It is possible to disagree without insulting your host and disparaging the site with a classic troll meltdown post, which is all the post that you are defending is. Shame that's too hard for you to figure out.

957 Tarheel  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 8:41:01am

re: #48 jcm

Saudi Oil Reserves -- 260,000,000,000 barrels.
US Reserves,
offshore, sand
and shale. -- 3,000,000,000,000

That's almost 12x Saudi.
Our cousins north of the border?
Another -- 5,000,000,000,000

So, the leftist in our congress will not let us use this. So what's the point of this post?

958 clarice  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 8:54:48am

Let's recap--against all protocol and for no good reason I can think of, Obama genuflects to the King of Saudi Arabia. Obama's minions respond that it wasn't a bow. Bloggers find videos from two different angles which show hw practically touched the King's shoes with his nose.
They then cite with glee the ravings of some self-promoting "etiquette expert" that this is a ok. It is not.
Still, the story spreads online and still the mainstream media refuses to let its consumers know what's up--something that has engendered a visceral, angry reaction in all but the most swampy environs.

So, then what? Charles comes up with a perfectly ridiculous "comparison" which will now be the lefts' meme.

PHEH, Charles. Not your finest hour.

959 Cry of defiance and not of fear  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 9:00:30am

Unless the person bestowing a medal, order or decoration is at least one head higher in height than the recipient, it is entirely natural for the recipient to incline his/her head to receive, comfortably, the bestowing of the honor. It is not a sign of obeisance to do so. It is entirely proper, and indeed logical, to smile, nod slightly and/or shake the hand of the bestower. It is also the case that a kiss/kisses may be exchanged; neither is this to be interpreted sexually, it is a hold-over from times when it was a sign of mutual trust. Also, nodding to others after the ceremony is merely courteous. No national honor or integrity has been compromised by such gestures.

The situation with Obama was quite different. He is a Head of State and as such, all heads of state are equal with one another. Also, the President of the United States of America, any private citizen of the US and any member of the US Armed Forces does NOT bow, curtsy or display towards a foreign head of state any gesture which would be regarded as a sign of obeisance because we Americans are citizens of our own land and not servants of, or citizens of, a foreign power. (This is not the same as when a member of the US Armed Forces salutes a head of state; there are specific rules re that in every service's manual.) That said, it is neither a hanging, nor even an impeachment offense to do so! The Queen, for example, is very relaxed about such matters, whether such demonstrations, or the lack of them, come from her own subjects or from citizens of other countries.

I have watched the video of Obama at Buckingham Palace. He approaches the Saudi king, bows deeply, bends one knee and keeps his head somewhat inclined when he eventually rights himself. He displays a complete lack of understanding of correct protocol. No other head of state commits such a gaffe; indeed, after the photo session breaks up, another head of state extends his hand to the Saudi king, keeping his body and head upright. Obviously, there are grounds for people to interpret Obama's gestures as those of a Moslem to a high authority in the islamic world. I would imagine the reason some people have uttered such silliness as calling for his impeachment is because interpreting it as a sign of obeisance would imply that Obama might conduct himself in a manner injurious to our nation.

960 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 9:13:28am

Listen to you folks.

"It's not a bow, he was only receiving a medal."

"This is nothing like what Obama did."

Right, because accepting a medal from the misogynist, religious apartheid kingdom is really just so much better than that horrible Barack Obama, who did something no other president has ever done!

"Impeach him!"

This is Obama Derangement Syndrome, plain as day.

Please, take a look around the Arab papers, and see if any of them are crowing over how Obama prostrated himself. Here's a hint -- they are not. The only people who noticed this at all are right wing bloggers, and the denial on the right over the simple fact that Barack Obama was following in a long line of US presidents who pander to the Saudis is purely hypocritical.

961 Opinionated  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 9:32:07am

re: #960 Charles

Listen to you folks.

"It's not a bow, he was only receiving a medal."

"This is nothing like what Obama did."

Right, because accepting a medal from the misogynist, religious apartheid kingdom is really just so much better than that horrible Barack Obama, who did something no other president has ever done!

Receiving a medal from the Saudis is bad. Dancing with them is bad. Doing business with them is bad. Not recognizing them for what they are is bad.

So Bush and other American Presidents acted badly.

I'm sorry, but this was different.

No one else bowed. Did someone in his entourage advice Obama to bow- that person should be fired.

Or is there something innate in Obama that causes an instinctive Bow to the Saudi King- and to the Saudi King ONLY.

I don't know how you now dismiss it Charles, when in real time it struck you enough to immediately post a thread.

Think me irrational and deranged but it bothers me.

962 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 9:36:22am

re: #961 Opinionated

I don't know how you now dismiss it Charles, when in real time it struck you enough to immediately post a thread.

Think me irrational and deranged but it bothers me.

And when I posted that first thread, I pointed out the same thing. This outrage is hypocritical. All presidents pander to the Saudis. You're letting your dislike of Barack Obama lead you into intellectual dishonesty.

963 horse  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 9:39:52am

re: #954 Jimmah

It's not about the neck-action, it's about the whole business of showing deference to, and endorsing the authority of, a regime we'd all much rather be helping to dismantle, or at least keeping at arms length. Both Republican and Democrat presidents have a history of playing this game. It's not for either side to claim that the submissiveness and acceptance is all on one side.

And if you read the entire post, I would hope you could see I get that point. As long as the Sauds are our "allies", we are going to have close relationships where our military and missions commingle. In that environment you will be presented with awards and medals. Until we don't need them, they are going to be our "allies" of convenience. Bush did not change that relationship, if anything he probably made it closer, something with which I did not agree.

Receiving that medal was just Bush continuing that relationship. Obama doing the deep bow, after treating the British monarchy like commoners, could be communicating he is on a path of voiding the special relationship with the British, while continuing the special relationship with the Sauds. It's not like he is just a nice guy treating everyone the same. He is showing disregard to some, and respect toward others. It just appears he got this respect/disregard thing completely bass ackwards with regards to the Sauds and Brits. He is either diplomatically incompetent or communicating a message. Which is it?

FYI, one of the worst traits a leader can demonstrate is inconsistency. It creates significant and unnecessary uncertainty and stress among those being led. This event was possibly just another example of Obama's strength in being inconsistent.

964 JacksonTn  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 9:40:23am

re: #962 Charles

And when I posted that first thread, I pointed out the same thing. This outrage is hypocritical. All presidents pander to the Saudis. You're letting your dislike of Barack Obama lead you into intellectually dishonesty.

You are so very right about it Charles ... I know for myself ... I don't even like the way Obama combs his hair ... I do not like so much about the man that it colors almost everything he says ... in my heart I can tell the difference between what he does and what almost every other president has and probably will continue to do ... it is just that from so many of Obama's past and present statements ... I just do not get the feeling that he always has America's best interest at heart ... I am hoping that he changes and performs for all Americans ... I especially hope he does for the sake of our military who continue to protect this country no matter who is in the White House ...

965 horse  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 9:53:23am

re: #963 horse

And to be clear, I do agree criticizing Obama's gesture while forgiving Bush's close relationship vis-a-vis the Sauds is overall hypocritical. I understand why Bush did what he did, and understand if Obama does the same, but I will still be critical of them both. I am rather surprised Obama is not charting a better course, and still do not understand why he would treat the Brits and Sauds so differently.

966 Joel  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 9:59:17am

re: #962 Charles

A lot of people who voted for Bush (and he was not much of a conservative at all) such as I (because we feared a Kerry Presidency) had no illusions that he was a Reagan or Teddy Roosevelt , just like we were under no illusions about John Maverick McCain being one of us. and were very critical of our pandering to the Saudis. In fact his father G.H.W. Bush was one of the worst (along with his two flunkies Brent Scowcroft and James Baker) when it came to Saudi suck-ups. Unfortunately all Presidents from FDR (starting in 1944) to the present guy, get down on their knees for those Wahabi *******. The Saudi Ambassador Prince Bandar was practically an adopted son according to Barbara Bush. (Side note - as a Dallas Cowboys fans I almost broke the TV screen back in 19923 when I saw Jerry Jones having Bandar as a guest on the sidelines during a game). Even though he has shown himself to be extremely incompetent and in way over his head (not ready for prime time), I am not aware of any serious people calling (not counting nutjobs) for Obama to be impeached. I am hoping that the GOP recovers its nerves and gets back on path with the right message because it should be in an excellent position to gain significant ground in 2010. Too bad the Bush name has made the GOP toxic for too many people but a year of Obama misrule might be what the Republicans need.

967 morning star  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:03:47am

re: #314 Charles

Bush did bow to King Abdullah, in this video and in every Saudi-related decision he made during his presidency. If you think there's something special and different about what Barack Obama did, you are fooling yourself.

The difference is that Bush pandered to the Saudis, while Obama bows to the Saudi King because he believes America should apologize for treating Islam disrespectfully.

968 clarice  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:10:33am

Why couldn't you just say the calls for impeachment about this are over the top, something I could readily agree with..though I think the gesture is worthy of censure and he really ought to name a head of protocol and listen to that person?
The bow was on the front page of s Saudi paper in less than 24 hours, and unless they are lying American Thinker has several comments from Saudis which suggest they did see it.

Instead you do something dumb--make a stupid and inept comparison and take this to a global level (US dependence on Saudi Arabia and its effect on policy) which lets Obama off the hook.

Charles I have great respect for what you do , but this is not your finest hour, IMO.

969 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:15:57am

re: #968 clarice

Instead you do something dumb--make a stupid and inept comparison and take this to a global level (US dependence on Saudi Arabia and its effect on policy) which lets Obama off the hook.

Charles I have great respect for what you do , but this is not your finest hour, IMO.

Lets Obama off the hook -- right. That's my point! I'm sekritly trying to excuse Obama!

Dumb is exactly the word for all of this hyperventilating.

970 A.W.  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:25:52am

Guys, everyone needs to take a deep breath. And i do mean everyone.

First, accepting a medal from them isn't in the same league as bowing to them (or courtsying, as IMAO points out). One is "thanks for this token, i accept" the other is, "my liege." We are americans and we should not bow to any "royalty" especially one who is a barely more than a dictator. They are no more royalty than Michael Jackson is the king of pop.

Impeachable? Nah. I mean given how Obama sold himself, we should be lucky he didn't give him the full Monica while he was down there. There is no high crime and misdimeanor, except by the Hillary Clinton defintion offered during watergate.

So, lame of Obama? yes. worth getting super-duper worked up over? no. And did Bush do anything that bad? not quite, but closer than most of us like. But this is a new low in our relationship with Saudi.

971 tryptic67  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:28:37am

#960 ... Charles, I simply don't get it. I haven't heard a legitimate argument advanced for impeachment predicated on the bow, so to my way of thinking that is is an argument worthy of an Obama. But it was monumentally dumb. I get you point about generational pandering to the Saudis. What is surprising, however, is that you embrace the notion that Obama's bow is nothing exceptional .... just "nothing is wrong ... it's the same old, same old ... Bush did it too" which follows the classic meme of the left (i.e., first deny, then ridicule, then say the Republicans did it too even though we bashed 'em for it). No one here loves Saudi Arabia. It is an apartheid government. It has virtual slavery. It was the among the last nations to ban chattel slavery if not the last. It is a reprehensible place. But there is pandering and then there is obeisance. Obama made an obeisance. That is the difference. I don't understand why you're so entrenched in opposition to that position, but c'est la vie.

# 948 ... Jimmah, is the irony lost on you that by saying I used a classic "troll" straw-man argument, you yourself therefore employing a straw-man argument? It's the same as dismissing an opponent's argument as merely reductionist ... which is classic reductionism in itself ipso facto. I guess you don't. In any event, your post # 931 was classless. You said OneGyt was a "moron" and an "idiot". You said that those who post at HotAir are somehow intellectually below those who post at LGF ... while I imagine there is a huge cross-over. It's clear you were being a homer. I called you out on it. No straw man there.

If you want an example of a clear straw-man argument, look no further than the suggestion that everyone angry about the Obama-bow wants to use it as grounds for immediate impeachment. That's in the same category as "Rush is the real leader of the GOP" and "Those who oppose the Stimulus Bill would have us do nothing."

972 ExCamelJockey  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:31:15am

I was going to agree with this post when I saw the still image. My thought was that a precedent had been set and that I have a permanent dislike for ultra leftists like Obama that was clouding my judgement. After watching the video I see that Bush wasn't bowing but rather receiving a honkin' necklace from the King. There's a difference between having a "good ole boy" relationship with the enemy and bowing to show your servitude.

Now I'm back to where I started ... Obama is a run from a fight, appease your enemies, give my money to street bums, resolve every problem sitting around a campfire singing kumbaya, bow down in servitude to our enemies kinda guy.

Until Obama proves that he has a pair, my judgment will happily be clouded when it comes to these types of issues.

973 clarice  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:48:01am

re: #969 Charles


I don't plan on belaboring this .You know enough about opinion shaping to know that your post was helpful to Obama in getting off the hook on this..There is simply no excuse he could give should by any remote chance someone have the guts to ask him about it,and the fact that your post slows down the IT drumbeat that he be held to account helps him.
If it wasn't being effective why do you suppose Lucianne made a point on her Must Reads to link to the entire CNN clip of the medal ceremony?

974 RebeccaLH  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 11:02:14am

Bush's "bow" wasn't remotely the same thing as Obama's obvious subservience. Bush bent down to let the shorter Saudi put a medal around his neck, and then showed respect for an Arab head of state with their traditional greeting. What Obama did was bow from the hips to a monarch, his sole intent, and something no American president should EVER do.

975 jaunte  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 11:04:40am

re: #974 RebeccaLH

What's your opinion of American Presidents kissing Saudi tyrants?

976 Aye Pod  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 11:05:46am

Yes you did create a strawman argument ie dismissed a weak argument that I didn't make - as though I had. Here it is again:

Everyone who disagrees with you is an idiot.

And no, correctly pointing out that someone has used a strawman is not an example of a strawman argument.

You said OneGyt was a "moron" and an "idiot".

Because he is. Suck it up.

If you want an example of a clear straw-man argument, look no further than the suggestion that everyone angry about the Obama-bow wants to use it as grounds for immediate impeachment.

Nobody has said that on this thread. There have been many, many criticisms here of those who have called for impeachment on this, but I can't see a single instance of anyone saying that everyone who is unhappy about this is calling for impeachment. Looks like you just made yet another strawman. One day you should really try addressing what people actually say.

PS:

As for Hot Air, there are some smart posters there, to be fair, but unfortunately a lot of extremists and dumbasses too. 'OneGyt' is clearly one of the latter.

977 Aye Pod  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 11:07:53am

*above post directed at #071 tryptic67

978 free  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 11:42:17am

re: #969 Charles

Lets Obama off the hook -- right. That's my point! I'm sekritly trying to excuse Obama!

Dumb is exactly the word for all of this hyperventilating.

You weren't "sekritly trying to excuse Obama" you were blatantly excusing him. I don't know what else you would call this post. What other possible reason would you have had for posting this video shot, hell the title of the post is Bush bowed too.

979 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 11:43:33am

re: #978 free

You weren't "sekritly trying to excuse Obama" you were blatantly excusing him. I don't know what else you would call this post. What other possible reason would you have had for posting this video shot, hell the title of the post is Bush bowed too.

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, obviously.

980 spudly  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 12:16:51pm

re: #27 Charles

Oh please. "Technically" not a bow? This is silly.

America has been bowing to these throwbacks for decades.

A bow is like a handshake, only it specifically denotes supplication at some level. It a specific act of protocol when dealing with royalty.

Accepting a medal is NOT a bow, period. If you duck to pass under a low doorway, you are not bowing to the person inside the room. A "bow" requires the intent to bow for formality.

Bush absolutely did not bow in that video. Technically or otherwise.

I don't argue that we are too friendly with many in the ME by far, but it is flatly wrong to suggest that a bow and this Bush video are the same thing when they clearly are not.

981 avspatti  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 1:08:37pm

re: #930 Joel

Someone on Hotair posted this (sounds prescient to me)

There are NO NATIVE speakers of Esperanto.

982 Joel  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 1:44:39pm

re: #981 avspatti

I know that, however puppet master Soros wants us all to speak Esperanto.

983 Cdat88  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 3:33:11pm

re: #960 Charles

Listen to you folks.

"It's not a bow, he was only receiving a medal."

"This is nothing like what Obama did."

Right, because accepting a medal from the misogynist, religious apartheid kingdom is really just so much better than that horrible Barack Obama, who did something no other president has ever done!

"Impeach him!"

This is Obama Derangement Syndrome, plain as day.

Please, take a look around the Arab papers, and see if any of them are crowing over how Obama prostrated himself. Here's a hint -- they are not. The only people who noticed this at all are right wing bloggers, and the denial on the right over the simple fact that Barack Obama was following in a long line of US presidents who pander to the Saudis is purely hypocritical.

Okay, I will ask again, what do you think of those of us that accepted medals from the "misogynist, religious apartheid kingdom"? Or is that different?

The medal in question is this.

I hate to repeat myself.

984 Charles Johnson  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 4:11:44pm

re: #983 Cdat88

Okay, I will ask again, what do you think of those of us that accepted medals from the "misogynist, religious apartheid kingdom"? Or is that different?

The medal in question is this.

I hate to repeat myself.

Are you the President of the United States?

985 Hawaii69  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 4:31:19pm

re: #980 spudly

A bow is like a handshake, only it specifically denotes supplication at some level. It a specific act of protocol when dealing with royalty.

Accepting a medal is NOT a bow, period. If you duck to pass under a low doorway, you are not bowing to the person inside the room. A "bow" requires the intent to bow for formality.

Bush absolutely did not bow in that video. Technically or otherwise.

I don't argue that we are too friendly with many in the ME by far, but it is flatly wrong to suggest that a bow and this Bush video are the same thing when they clearly are not.


Well, if you dig a bit you can find photos of Bush greeting Abdullah with a kiss on the cheek, and
then holding his hand as they stroll and talk.

At least it wasn't a bow, I suppose.....

986 Hawaii69  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 4:50:31pm

re: #957 Tarheel

So, the leftist in our congress will not let us use this. So what's the point of this post?


"and shale" is an enormous qualifier. Mining the shale and and extracting the oil is energy intensive. We don't have Oil Sands like the Canadians...we have mountains
to carve up. Something like 50% of the energy gained
from oil shale is lost in the process.

Our problem isn't in running out completely....yet. It's
in meeting demand, and doing it economically.

987 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 5:24:26pm
988 L'ano Itar  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 7:41:26pm

As so many have said, GW's bow was a dipping of the head to receive a medal. Produce a shot of him walking up to fatass and damned near falling on his face to kow-tow before the ruler of the asteroid temple, and I'll agree with you. As to whether or not GW should have accepted a medal from that same fatass... now I'm on your side. Same goes for the hand holding and kissing on the cheek. Hopefully GW just fell off the wagon that day. You know how those saudis love to suck up the go-juice when the religious police aren't around.

989 rightwinger  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 5:09:09am

Not a bow. He is bending to get a medal around his neck. Big difference.

Ask your wife or another person shorter than yourself to put something around your neck. You will bend down to allow/help them place it around your neck.

990 luco-brazzi  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 1:38:01pm

he is not bowing Charles, he's accepting a medal. And I don't think the O should be impeached.

I haven't been here for a couple of months since when did Charles become an Obama-thumper?

991 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 2:26:11pm

re: #990 luco-brazzi

he is not bowing Charles, he's accepting a medal.

Wow! You know, I didn't even notice that!

Of course, all those words up there about watching the video might lead you to think I'm being sarcastic when I say that, which I am.

He's bowing to accept a medal. Of course, folks like you would be screaming even more if Barack Obama had accepted a medal from King Abdullah, and bowed his head to do it. But let's just ignore the hypocrisy, shall we?

I haven't been here for a couple of months since when did Charles become an Obama-thumper?

When did you lose the ability to read and understand words?

992 badger1  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 2:40:13pm

I think this post is an ill-advised and inaccurate defense of Obama's diplomatic weakness on Charles part.

It was a mistake.

It would be a mistake (even if Bush had bowed) to assert that since one President had made such an error that somehow excuses another President's error.

That's OK. Everyone makes mistakes. This one of Obama's is annoying but hardly earth-shattering. Charles error pales in comparison to the brilliance of LGF in general.

993 Charles Johnson  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 3:02:13pm

re: #992 badger1

I think this post is an ill-advised and inaccurate defense of Obama's diplomatic weakness on Charles part.

It was a mistake.

It would be a mistake (even if Bush had bowed) to assert that since one President had made such an error that somehow excuses another President's error.

That's OK. Everyone makes mistakes. This one of Obama's is annoying but hardly earth-shattering. Charles error pales in comparison to the brilliance of LGF in general.

You're entitled to your opinion, but I do not agree. It was not a mistake, and I have nothing to apologize for.

994 jmwcctx  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:02:18pm

Wow. That's the first Kos-like post I've seen from Charles.

And no--in diplo-speak, bowing and bending to receive a medal DO NOT have the same meaning. And the double-kiss is a sign of mutual respect--not a sign of deference by either party.

995 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:19:57pm
996 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 7:22:16pm
997 [deleted]  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 8:25:39pm
998 n2stox  Wed, Apr 8, 2009 2:30:29pm

Americans do not bow to foreign monarchs because that act signifies the monarch's power over his subjects.

If bush did it, chalk that up as another gaffe. I am of the opinion that Bush is bowing to have something put around his nect, like in Star Wars, but hey, that's me.

Bush also gave about $400 billion in the farm bill, and tacked on another trillion with prescription meds. Does that mean I have to like it?

At least he gave us a tax cut and 2 solid Supremes.

I guess this whole bowing thing, in the midst of his "I'm Sorry America is so bad" and "We love Islam" tour just makes me dislike Obama more.

At what point does this guy stop campaigning and begin leading? He is making a mockery of himself it seems.

999 SAM8  Wed, Apr 8, 2009 5:01:24pm

The Saudi press noticed it and appreciated what they perceived was a bow.

I'm sure they thought the same thing when Bush held Abdullah's hand, which was appalling and strange.

But to suggest that Obama's bow is the same as Bush receiving a medal from Abdullah is silly. The reason people reacted the way they did was because Obama looked subservient, weak and out of his league.

If Obama received the medal Bush received I wouldn't have thought he bowed to Abdullah, either. Our Presidents receive gifts from other world leaders all the time whether it's garments, statues or a 25 DVD set of movies. I doubt any President would offend their host by turning a gift away in his or her face.

1000 [deleted]  Wed, Apr 8, 2009 8:24:02pm
1001 Charles Johnson  Wed, Apr 8, 2009 9:39:16pm

So long, folks! Take care now.

1002 [deleted]  Sat, Apr 11, 2009 10:00:48am

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