Rasmussen’s Non-Apology Apology

World • Views: 2,130

Today, former Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen issued one of those political non-apology apologies we’ve come to know so well, intended to mollify the Islamic world while giving himself a way to argue that he didn’t really apologize at all.

And also intended to smooth the way for his position as secretary general of NATO.

Rasmussen gave his 2009-take on the cartoons earlier today. “I respect Islam as one of the world’s major religions as well as its religious symbols,” Rasmussen said during a panel discussion at a conference in Istanbul.

“I was deeply distressed that the cartoons were seen by many Muslims as an attempt by Denmark to mark and insult or behave disrespectively towards Islam or the Prophet Mohammad. Nothing could be further from my mind,” he added.

At least he didn’t bow.

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168 comments
1 BLBfootballs  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:12:51am

Oh, gag! What a pathetic game.

2 jdog29  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:12:59am

“I am so sorry ya’ll are a bunch of idiots”

3 CIA Reject  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:14:01am

Kinda like Ralph Kramden apologizing for calling his mother-in-law a “blabbermouth”.

4 wiffersnapper  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:14:31am

That was quite the apoLOLgy there, Rassy.

5 itellu3times  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:15:15am

Works for me.

6 Shug  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:15:28am

next he can apologize on behalf of people who murdered and rioted because they didn’t like the cartoons

7 Spider mensch  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:15:46am

re: #3 CIA Reject

Kinda like Ralph Kramden apologizing for calling his mother-in-law a “blabbermouth”.


” I know you mother doesn’t try to be mean, Alice, it’s just her nature….”

8 Big Steve  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:16:01am

wonder how may lawyers it took to draft this?

9 ConservatismNow!  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:16:16am

Basically he said: “I’m sorry you were insulted.” I do that quite a bit with Missus CN. She sees through it though.

10 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:16:36am

”,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,insult or behave disrespectively towards Islam or the Prophet Mohammad. Nothing could be further from my mind,”,, therefore, would you be so kind as to leave it attached to my shoulders!

11 Big Steve  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:17:09am

serious question here….has a Muslim leader ever apologized for 911?

12 DanishMade  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:17:27am
At least he didn’t bow.


lolz :D

13 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:17:35am

I’m not sure why we should criticize him for issuing a “non-apology apology”. Would we prefer that he REALLY apologized for “insulting Islam”?

Of course, I’d rather the whole absurd business hadn’t happened at all. But if he had to say something, I’d rather him give an “I’m sorry you’re [stupidly] offended” than “I’m sorry that we did such a terrible thing and insulted Islam”.

14 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:17:41am

This is kind of like Hitler saying “I am sorry you were insulted by the gas chambers. No disrespect was intended.”

OK. maybe that is going a little far. But only a little.

15 sneezey  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:18:09am

I wonder if he has read Neville Chamberlain’s biography.

16 Leonidas Hoplite  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:18:28am

For an encore I wonder if he’ll apologize to the Nazi collaborators that were shot after WW2, and pay reparations to the surviving family.

17 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:18:34am

Charles

You’re going to push the “bow” thing until you really piss some people off, aren’t you?

Go for it :)

18 jcm  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:18:41am

New seethe material for the Friday evening seethe!

19 debutaunt  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:19:07am

re: #6 Shug

next he can apologize on behalf of people who murdered and rioted because they didn’t like the cartoons

And then he can try to coax a little smile out of Rage Boy.

20 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:19:09am

And of course we’re still waiting for the apology from the Muslim Cleric Cartoon Fatwa Roadshow participants who used the cartoons to whip up (literally) homicidal hatred.

21 Pastorius  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:19:39am

Charles,
You are correct in pointing out the over-reaction of the right on the subject of Obama’s bow the King of Saudi Arabia.

However, please do me a favor and answer these questions:

1) Do you acknowledge that Obama is a Muslim by Muslim law - as his father was a Muslim? - (by American law he is what he says he is, a Christian)

2) Do you acknowledge that Obama knows that he is a Muslim by Islamic law?

3) Do you think it is incumbent upon him, as a defender of human rights, and the most powerful man in the world, to testify personally against the stoning of apostates?

4) Do you acknowledge that the right has a legitimate reason to question Obama’s possible allegiance to Islam, in that he was a member of a church which honored “The Reverend Louis Farrakhan” on more than one occasion?

22 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:19:52am

Okay, I read it. Read it twice. That was not an apology. Which is good, because the idea that he should apologize for what some newspaper in his country decided to do was absolutely absurd.

23 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:19:54am

re: #3 CIA Reject

Kinda like Ralph Kramden apologizing for calling his mother-in-law a “blabbermouth”.

A classic

24 Ringo the Gringo  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:20:19am

I’m sorry that so many Muslims don’t respect our tradition of free speech.

25 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:20:23am

re: #14 Ford_Prefect

This is kind of like Hitler saying “I am sorry you were insulted by the gas chambers. No disrespect was intended.”

OK. maybe that is going a little far. But only a little.

Whoa.
Whoa.
Whoa.

I ask again; is anyone here really saying that Rasmussen should have GENUINELY “apologized”?

A Hitler/gas chamber analogy? You’ve got to be kidding me.

26 joncelli  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:20:33am

“I’m sorry you’re a bunch of freedom-hating theocrats. Please take this bone and go away.”

27 Big Steve  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:20:58am

re: #21 Pastorius

Charles,
You are correct in pointing out the over-reaction of the right on the subject of Obama’s bow the King of Saudi Arabia.

However, please do me a favor and answer these questions:

1) Do you acknowledge that Obama is a Muslim by Muslim law - as his father was a Muslim? - (by American law he is what he says he is, a Christian)

2) Do you acknowledge that Obama knows that he is a Muslim by Islamic law?

3) Do you think it is incumbent upon him, as a defender of human rights, and the most powerful man in the world, to testify personally against the stoning of apostates?

4) Do you acknowledge that the right has a legitimate reason to question Obama’s possible allegiance to Islam, in that he was a member of a church which honored “The Reverend Louis Farrakhan” on more than one occasion?


I think the only acknowledgement Charles needs to do is to acknowledge the demise of your account…

28 _RememberTonyC  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:21:25am

Can we put a bow (pronounced bo) on this?

29 Kragar  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:21:37am

“I’m very sorry you are a bunch of humorless barbaric throwbacks. It distresses me deeply that we have to put up with your crap since too many people lack the back bone to let us slap you down effectively.”

30 Ford_Prefect  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:21:57am

re: #25 Occasional Reader

Whoa.
Whoa.
Whoa.

I ask again; is anyone here really saying that Rasmussen should have GENUINELY “apologized”?

A Hitler/gas chamber analogy? You’ve got to be kidding me.

Like I said. maybe a little too far. Charles, feel free to delete my number 14.

31 vxbush  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:22:20am

re: #29 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

“I’m very sorry you are a bunch of humorless barbaric throwbacks. It distresses me deeply that we have to put up with your crap since too many people lack the back bone to let us slap you down effectively.”

Now I would get behind that apology. :D

32 Big Steve  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:23:25am

How is “Fogh” pronounced anyway?

33 Pastorius  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:23:28am

Big Steve,
You are a funny man.

34 brookly red  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:24:03am

re: #29 Kragar (Proud to be Kafir)

“I’m very sorry you are a bunch of humorless barbaric throwbacks. It distresses me deeply that we have to put up with your crap since too many people lack the back bone to let us slap you down effectively.”

Your Danish is good, (or was that babalfish ?)

35 Occasional Reader  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:24:12am

re: #32 Big Steve

How is “Fogh” pronounced anyway?

The Fogh apology
creeps in
on little cat feet

36 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:24:14am

re: #21 Pastorius

Charles,
You are correct in pointing out the over-reaction of the right on the subject of Obama’s bow the King of Saudi Arabia.

However, please do me a favor and answer these questions:

1) Do you acknowledge that Obama is a Muslim by Muslim law - as his father was a Muslim? - (by American law he is what he says he is, a Christian)

2) Do you acknowledge that Obama knows that he is a Muslim by Islamic law?

3) Do you think it is incumbent upon him, as a defender of human rights, and the most powerful man in the world, to testify personally against the stoning of apostates?

4) Do you acknowledge that the right has a legitimate reason to question Obama’s possible allegiance to Islam, in that he was a member of a church which honored “The Reverend Louis Farrakhan” on more than one occasion?

Hey, Obama is what ever he claims to be, and whether you believe him or not, he claims to be a Christian. He has said this in public.

Next question?

37 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:24:14am

re: #27 Big Steve

I think the only acknowledgement Charles needs to do is to acknowledge the demise of your account…

Or he could just block the account without any particular acknowledgement. His choice.

38 Kragar  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:24:31am

re: #34 brookly red

Your Danish is good, (or was that babalfish ?)

You should try my cheesecake.

39 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:24:44am

re: #21 Pastorius

1) so what?
2) I would have no idea what Obamas knowledge of Muslim law is, and neither do you
3) I think it is incumbent upon him to denounce human rights violations, not to “testify” to individual instances
4) No. He has shown ZERO “allegience to Islam”. Again, see #2.

40 victor_yugo  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:25:03am

re: #33 Pastorius

Big Steve,
You are a funny man.

And you’re a holier-than-thou prick. Get off your moralizing high horse.

41 Golem Akbar  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:25:34am

I’m sorry you guys are such sh#ts. I’m sorry I had to say it.

42 Pastorius  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:26:56am

Walter Newton,
I acknowledged that in my comment. Did you see that?

43 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:27:27am

It’s a political statement (which, given Webster’s definition of “statement”, is an oxymoron)

44 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:28:01am

re: #28 _RememberTonyC

Can we put a bow (pronounced bo) on this?

A beaux?

45 brookly red  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:28:09am

/ well, under “Muslim law” isn’t everybody Muslim, whether they like it or not?

46 HoosierHoops  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:28:11am

re: #11 Big Steve

serious question here….has a Muslim leader ever apologized for 911?


Why should they? Everybody knows 911 was an inside job by the Joooos.
/

47 pat  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:28:41am

Actually he sort of did bow. What he should have said is “If you can’t take a joke, screw you.”

48 Big Steve  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:28:50am

re: #46 HoosierHoops

Why should they? Everybody knows 911 was an inside job by the Joooos.
/

damn I thought Cheney did it..

49 victor_yugo  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:28:51am

Maybe Rasmussen is practicing taqiyya.

50 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:29:22am

re: #45 brookly red

/ well, under “Muslim law” isn’t everybody Muslim, whether they like it or not?

Um, yeah, they are, as people who convert to Islam are considered “reverts”.

51 LionofDixon  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:29:26am

That’s like me apologizing for having bacon with my eggs.

52 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:29:39am
53 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:29:48am

re: #42 Pastorius

Let me ask YOU a question

1) do you personally know any Muslims?
2) If yes, have YOU asked them their feelings on your question 3?
3) if no, I suggest you widen your circle of friends, then come back and talk about “muslims”

54 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:30:15am

Kudos to Rasmussen. He basically said “I respect Islam. The government of Denmark respects Islam. Certain Danish people made some cartoons that caused some Muslims to get offended, but the government of Denmark nevertheless respects Islam and Muslims.” That’s the right policy, and Rasmussen stated it well.

Shame on Fogh for his initial statement that a Danish political official should prostrate himself to Muslims in general because of what certain Danish people did.

55 ConservatismNow!  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:30:15am

re: #51 LionofDixon

That’s like me apologizing for having bacon with my eggs.

No one should ever apologize for having bacon.

56 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:30:26am

As non-apology apologies go - this is pretty good.

Lets not forget that unfortunately Turkey is a not unimportant member if NATO, and he’s got to live with them.

Lets also not forget that under Erdogan, the current Turkish PM, the country has been dragged, by stealth, away from the secular state its founder, Kemal Ataturk, had in mind.
Erdogans wife wears the hijab - which is actually forbidden in secular Turkey.
Erdogan has sent his daughters to study in the USA - because there, they also can wear the hijab, which is forbidden at Turkish Universities.
His party has been stifling the military and judiciary.
He is supporting rabid fundamentalist muslim organisations in Germany.

Rasmussed did well - this is the real world, unfortunately, and Turkey should get rid of Erdogan and his islamic party.

57 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:30:38am

re: #49 victor_yugo

Maybe Rasmussen is practicing taqiyya.

I wonder how well it went over with Recip Taqiyya Erdogan.

58 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:30:56am

re: #42 Pastorius

Walter Newton,
I acknowledged that in my comment. Did you see that?

No, it was a conditional statement on your part. What does American law have to do with his statements on being a Christian? You stated “by American law he is what he says he is, a Christian.” What law are you talking about?

Your statement doesn’t even make sense.

Have your doctor check for Obama Derangement Syndrome .

59 MJ  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:31:33am

re: #24 Ringo the Gringo

I’m sorry that so many Muslims don’t respect our tradition of free speech.

I’m sorry that so many Europeans and American politicians don’t respect our tradition of free speech.

60 Big Steve  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:32:48am

re: #52 Iron Fist

Just a question. When referring to Jesus of Nazareth, does he use the term “Our Lord and Savior”? I find it odd that Mohammed (Piss Be Upon Him) gets singled out for this shameless obsequiousness when the leaders/founders of other religions aren’t treated with similar respect.
blockquote>

Isn’t that what the word “Christ” is? It is an honor title bestowed by later followers and not much different than (PBUH).

61 Last Mohican  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:33:17am

re: #20 Occasional Reader

And of course we’re still waiting for the apology from the Muslim Cleric Cartoon Fatwa Roadshow participants who used the cartoons to whip up (literally) homicidal hatred.

As I recall, the Muslim cleric who paraded the cartoons around the Muslim world in order to incite violence actually added a number of cartoons himself, in order to maximally inflame everyone and trigger the greatest possible violence. One of his additions depicted Mohammed having sex with a dog.

I would agree that a Muslim cleric who draws a cartoon of Mohammed having sex with a dog, and then goes around asking other Muslims to look at it, may have some apologizing to do.

62 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:33:28am

20:29 U.S. envoy George Mitchell arrives in Mideast April 13 to push peace talks (Haaretz)

I’ll be holding my breath?

63 Pastorius  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:33:31am

sattv4u2,


1) do you personally know any Muslims?

Yes, I am personal friends with people who are Muslims and also with many people who come from Muslim countries.

2) If yes, have YOU asked them their feelings on your question 3?

That’s a good and fair question. I do not bring that question up to my Muslim friends. However, Charles is attacking Conservatives on this issue (and, I think he is doing so wisely to an extent), but he is not acknowledging that there is actual reason for concern, IMO.

3) if no, I suggest you widen your circle of friends, then come back and talk about “muslims”

Answered that one already.

64 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:33:51am

re: #50 Honorary Yooper

Um, yeah, they are, as people who convert to Islam are considered “reverts”.

I think they have reverted, too. Reverted to uncivilized barbarian monsters.

65 Golem Akbar  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:34:15am

re: #54 Last Mohican

Kudos to Rasmussen. He basically said “I respect Islam. The government of Denmark respects Islam. Certain Danish people made some cartoons that caused some Muslims to get offended, but the government of Denmark nevertheless respects Islam and Muslims.” That’s the right policy, and Rasmussen stated it well.

Shame on Fogh for his initial statement that a Danish political official should prostrate himself to Muslims in general because of what certain Danish people did.

The Danish track record speaks for itself. Kudos to Rasmussen for sticking up for his principles and defense of democracy. Let’s not misunderstand what he did. He’s one of the good guys.

66 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:34:32am

re: #59 MJ

I’m sorry that so many Europeans and American politicians don’t respect our tradition of free speech.

Don’t forget, they’re keeping score and they know where you live.

67 brookly red  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:34:38am

re: #62 Nevergiveup

20:29 U.S. envoy George Mitchell arrives in Mideast April 13 to push peace talks (Haaretz)

I’ll be holding my breath?

“push” peace talks… hmmmm.

68 Kosh's Shadow  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:34:59am

re: #61 Last Mohican

As I recall, the Muslim cleric who paraded the cartoons around the Muslim world in order to incite violence actually added a number of cartoons himself, in order to maximally inflame everyone and trigger the greatest possible violence. One of his additions depicted Mohammed having sex with a dog.

I would agree that a Muslim cleric who draws a cartoon of Mohammed having sex with a dog, and then goes around asking other Muslims to look at it, may have some apologizing to do.

Yes, he should apologize for it being a dog, and not the more historically accurate camel or goat.

69 victor_yugo  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:34:59am

re: #60 Big Steve

Isn’t that what the word “Christ” is? It is an honor title bestowed by later followers and not much different than (PBUH).

According to the New Testament, Simon Peter acknowledged this to Jesus’ face: “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

Substitute “Messiah” if you want. Point is, it wasn’t bestowed later; it was said at the time.

70 Pastorius  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:35:16am

Walter Newton,
You asked: What does American law have to do with his statements on being a Christian? You stated “by American law he is what he says he is, a Christian.” What law are you talking about?

I’m talking about the First Amendment of our Constitution.

71 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:35:29am

re: #63 Pastorius

I’m still waiting. By what American law is Obama a Christian since he claims to be a Christian? I say he’s a Christian becuase he has stated that, not because of any make believe law that you have referenced.

Please clarify your statement.

72 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:35:30am

re: #62 Nevergiveup

20:29 U.S. envoy George Mitchell arrives in Mideast April 13 to push peace talks (Haaretz)

I’ll be holding my breath?

Nah - keep on breathing!
Lieberman will tell him what Israel understands under ‘peace talks’ … he’s made a good start already!

73 ladycatnip  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:36:05am

Sorta on the same topic:

Obama to muslims in Turkey:

“We will convey our deep appreciation for the Islamic faith, which has done so much over so many centuries to shape the world for the better, including my own country,” Obama said.

Obama also said, to a round of applause, that the United States supports Turkey becoming a member of the European Union.

How has islam shaped America for the better? Was the O thinking about the Ottoman Empire? The genocide of the Armenians?

74 MJ  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:36:29am

re: #62 Nevergiveup

20:29 U.S. envoy George Mitchell arrives in Mideast April 13 to push peace talks (Haaretz)

I’ll be holding my breath?

Check out this statement issued by the State Department:

Robert Wood

Acting Department Spokesman, Office of the Spokesman

Bureau of Public Affairs

Washington, DC

April 6, 2009


Special Envoy Mitchell will travel to the Middle East beginning April 13 to advance the goal of the two-state solution and comprehensive peace in the region. He is scheduled to meet with key officials in Israel and the Palestinian territories, Egypt, the Gulf, and North Africa. Special Envoy Mitchell’s aim for this trip is to discuss next steps in moving the parties toward a lasting peace that will benefit all the people of the region.


They’re not even going to bother with hearing any objections from the Israelis. It’s Obama’s way or we’ll piss on you.

75 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:36:46am

re: #72 yma o hyd

Nah - keep on breathing!
Lieberman will tell him what Israel understands under ‘peace talks’ … he’s made a good start already!

Maybe Mitchell will pull an egypt and refuse to meet with Lieberman? Kidding of course but ya never know?

76 Pastorius  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:37:03am

Look, I mean no disrespect to anyone here (except Big Steve).

:)

I am asking reasonable questions, in my opinion.

77 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:37:04am

re: #63 Pastorius

Then if you are so concerned with the issue of muslims stoning apostates, why don’t you have that converstaion with your “personal friends with people who are Muslims and also with many people who come from Muslim countries.” ?

78 Ben Hur  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:37:11am

A European leader appointed to head NATO needs Muslim approval?

79 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:37:13am

re: #67 brookly red

“push” peace talks… hmmmm.

…..down the throats of the Israelis.

80 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:37:15am

re: #70 Pastorius

Walter Newton,
You asked: What does American law have to do with his statements on being a Christian? You stated “by American law he is what he says he is, a Christian.” What law are you talking about?

I’m talking about the First Amendment of our Constitution.

That doesn’t make any sense. If there was NO FREEDOM OF SPEECH in the United States, and I said I was a Christian, then are you saying, according to the lack of freedom of speech in this country, I wouldn’t be a Christian?

Come on…

81 Douchecanoe and Ryan Too  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:37:17am

re: #73 ladycatnip

Sorta on the same topic:

Obama to muslims in Turkey:

How has islam shaped America for the better? Was the O thinking about the Ottoman Empire? The genocide of the Armenians?

For that matter, how has Islam shaped ANYTHING for the better? And don’t even bother trotting out the old canard about Arabic math; I’m not in a mood to bow.

82 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:37:32am

re: #76 Pastorius

Look, I mean no disrespect to anyone here (except Big Steve).

:)

I am asking reasonable questions, in my opinion.

Nope.

83 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:37:34am

re: #73 ladycatnip

Sorta on the same topic:

Obama to muslims in Turkey:

How has islam shaped America for the better? Was the O thinking about the Ottoman Empire? The genocide of the Armenians?

He must have been thinking about CAIR, being a community organiser himself …

84 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:37:41am

re: #74 MJ

Check out this statement issued by the State Department:

Robert Wood

Acting Department Spokesman, Office of the Spokesman

Bureau of Public Affairs

Washington, DC

April 6, 2009

Special Envoy Mitchell will travel to the Middle East beginning April 13 to advance the goal of the two-state solution and comprehensive peace in the region. He is scheduled to meet with key officials in Israel and the Palestinian territories, Egypt, the Gulf, and North Africa. Special Envoy Mitchell’s aim for this trip is to discuss next steps in moving the parties toward a lasting peace that will benefit all the people of the region.

They’re not even going to bother with hearing any objections from the Israelis. It’s Obama’s way or we’ll piss on you.

Then they better start buying umbrellas?

85 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:38:13am

re: #70 Pastorius

Walter Newton,
You asked: What does American law have to do with his statements on being a Christian? You stated “by American law he is what he says he is, a Christian.” What law are you talking about?

I’m talking about the First Amendment of our Constitution.

The 1st amendment deals with your profession of being from a certain faith?

86 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:38:30am

re: #76 Pastorius

Look, I mean no disrespect to anyone here (except Big Steve).

:)

I am asking reasonable questions, in my opinion.

Is it really a good idea to pick a fight with anyone named “Big”?

87 Pupdawg  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:38:46am

…he forgot the (PBUH) after using the Prophet Mohammad’s name (PBUH). A revised non-apology apology might be in order or else some followers of the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH) may be offended deja vu all over again Yogi Bera (PBUH,also) style.

88 Big Steve  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:39:05am

re: #76 Pastorius

Look, I mean no disrespect to anyone here (except Big Steve).

:)

I am asking reasonable questions, in my opinion.

your little smiley face doesn’t cut it with me……I am watching you ;)

89 jorline  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:39:45am
At least he didn’t bow.

But he did curtsy.

90 DaddyG  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:39:56am

re: #47 pat

Actually he sort of did bow. What he should have said is “If you can’t take a joke, screw you.”

The audio of the incident is as follows:

Obama: “Nice shoes King Abdullah!”

King: “Thank You B. Hussain. Say is that Ron Popeils instant hair? Nice coverage.”

91 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:40:00am

re: #73 ladycatnip

Sorta on the same topic:

Obama to muslims in Turkey:


How has islam shaped America for the better?

Without the Barbary Pirates, our Navy and Marines would have less of a proud history.

/knowing that’s NOT what Obama meant .. (whatever th’ F he did mean)

92 jcm  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:40:06am

re: #62 Nevergiveup

20:29 U.S. envoy George Mitchell arrives in Mideast April 13 to push peace talks (Haaretz)

I’ll be holding my breath?

20:29 U.S. envoy George Mitchell arrives in Mideast April 13 to push for more Israeli concessions.

Re-written for accuracy.

93 CIA Reject  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:40:15am

re: #86 Nevergiveup

Is it really a good idea to pick a fight with anyone named “Big”?


Never play cards with a man called “Doc”.

Never pick a fight with a man called “Tiny” - or “Big” for that matter.

/Rules to live (longer) by

94 Honorary Yooper  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:40:34am

re: #85 sattv4u2

The 1st amendment deals with your profession of being from a certain faith?

Last I looked, this was all the First Amendment had to say:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

Nothing about being of a certain faith in there at all.

95 Ben Hur  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:41:04am

This is an apology:

Youtube Video
96 joncelli  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:41:07am

re: #93 CIA Reject

And, of course, never have sex with a woman crazier than you are.

97 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:41:09am

re: #93 CIA Reject

Never play cards with a man called “Doc”.

Never pick a fight with a man called “Tiny” - or “Big” for that matter.

/Rules to live (longer) by

Never climb a mountain with a “sheila”

98 [deleted]  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:41:24am
99 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:41:35am

re: #75 Nevergiveup

Maybe Mitchell will pull an egypt and refuse to meet with Lieberman? Kidding of course but ya never know?

I’m thinking - the Israeli government is looking very carefully at the reaction of PB0 and the UN to that Nork missile launch.
They will have seen that there are lots of hot words bandied about, but that the PB0 administration is not prepared to do anything else.
So Mitchell will be heard - but Bibi and Lieberman and Barak will make their own, independent decisions, with a friendly wave in PB0’s general direction.

That visit of Bibi to Washington will show us how things will go.
Mitchell - is like eyewash for the ayrabs, right now.
I think.

100 Pastorius  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:41:45am

The First Amendment says,

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

In my opinion, that is an absolute protection of, what we now call, the Freedom of Conscience.

In other words, the freedom to choose which religion one will adhere to.

101 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:41:47am

re: #94 Honorary Yooper

Last I looked, this was all the First Amendment had to say:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

Nothing about being of a certain faith in there at all.


Nor anything about being compelled to tell anyone what that faith, or lack of, is

102 Ben Hur  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:42:07am

re: #91 pre-Boomer Marine brat

Without the Barbary Pirates, our Navy and Marines would have less of a proud history.

/knowing that’s NOT what Obama meant .. (whatever th’ F he did mean)

The real reason we have a Constitution.

The authority to go kick ass.

103 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:42:18am

re: #96 joncelli

And, of course, never have sex with a woman crazier than you are.

you are absolutely WRONG about that !

(that is,, as long as you have a week to recover)

104 Russkilitlover  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:42:57am

re: #81 thedopefishlives

For that matter, how has Islam shaped ANYTHING for the better? And don’t even bother trotting out the old canard about Arabic math; I’m not in a mood to bow.

Well, mosaics are quite nice, and moorish arches in architecture. Oh, and though they didn’t invent them, the Arab horse is the purest equine bloodline and truly magnificent.

105 CIA Reject  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:43:04am

re: #96 joncelli

re: #97 Nevergiveup

I’ll add those to the list - thanks!

106 Big Steve  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:43:15am

re: #93 CIA Reject

Never play cards with a man called “Doc”.

Never pick a fight with a man called “Tiny” - or “Big” for that matter.

/Rules to live (longer) by


“Never piss off a church lady in a fancy hat” - buzzsawmonkey

107 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:43:49am

re: #105 CIA Reject

re: #97 Nevergiveup

I’ll add those to the list - thanks!

What’s on the list from that movie “Vertical Limit”

108 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:43:57am

re: #100 Pastorius

The First Amendment says,

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

In my opinion, that is an absolute protection of, what we now call, the Freedom of Conscience.

In other words, the freedom to choose which religion one will adhere to.

the two are unrelated

109 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:44:04am

re: #78 Ben Hur

A European leader appointed to head NATO needs Muslim approval?

Yeah - sounds odd - but Turkey is a member of NATO, and the post of General Secretary of NATO must have unanimous approval.
Turkey obviously used its veto, as lone NATO member, and got her arms twisted by non other than PB0.
As, obviously, did Rasmussen in regard to making an ‘apology’ …

110 Wendya  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:44:12am

re: #21 Pastorius

2) Do you acknowledge that Obama knows that he is a Muslim by Islamic law?

He would at most be viewed an apostate by fundamentalist muslims since he chose as an adult not to be a Muslim. As for his schooling, I think you’d be hard pressed to find a school in Indonesia that didn’t have some type of religious instruction when he was a child. I, myself, was baptised a Christian and attended parochial school but I consider myself agnostic.

111 brookly red  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:44:34am

re: #105 CIA Reject

re: #97 Nevergiveup

I’ll add those to the list - thanks!

& don’t pee on the 3rd rail.

112 pre-Boomer Marine brat  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:44:43am

re: #102 Ben Hur

The real reason we have a Constitution.

The authority to go kick ass.

Yes, and th*nk you.

:D

113 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:45:03am

re: #111 brookly red

& don’t pee on the 3rd rail.

Or up wind.

114 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:45:10am

re: #111 brookly red

& don’t pee on the 3rd rail.

while holding it

115 Big Steve  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:45:11am

re: #109 yma o hyd

Yeah - sounds odd - but Turkey is a member of NATO, and the post of General Secretary of NATO must have unanimous approval.
Turkey obviously used its veto, as lone NATO member, and got her arms twisted by non other than PB0.
As, obviously, did Rasmussen in regard to making an ‘apology’ …

Yes and Turkey is an extremely important member of NATO give proximity to the Bear and the Islamic world.

116 MandyManners  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:45:16am

re: #100 Pastorius

The First Amendment says,

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

In my opinion, that is an absolute protection of, what we now call, the Freedom of Conscience.

In other words, the freedom to choose which religion one will adhere to.

Also, the freedom to not have a religion.

117 Ben Hur  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:45:34am

re: #109 yma o hyd

Yeah - sounds odd - but Turkey is a member of NATO, and the post of General Secretary of NATO must have unanimous approval.
Turkey obviously used its veto, as lone NATO member, and got her arms twisted by non other than PB0.
As, obviously, did Rasmussen in regard to making an ‘apology’ …


Ah! Thanks. Forgot that they are in NATO.

IT’s the EU Membership question that has Sarkozy and Merkel against THE ONE.

118 victor_yugo  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:45:36am

re: #94 Honorary Yooper

Last I looked, this was all the First Amendment had to say:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

Nothing about being of a certain faith in there at all.

Not even the establishment and prohibition clauses? You can be of any certain or uncertain faith you wish, and you are never prohibited by law from telling people about it.

119 MandyManners  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:45:57am

re: #113 Nevergiveup

Or up wind.

Or, up a rope.

120 Capitalist Tool  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:46:02am

re: #53 sattv4u2

Let me ask YOU a question

1) do you personally know any Muslims?
2) If yes, have YOU asked them their feelings on your question 3?
3) if no, I suggest you widen your circle of friends, then come back and talk about “muslims”

I had a Chem Lab partner who happened to be a Libyan woman. First day of lab, I asked her where she was from and she turned on me in an instant venomous rage and announced that she was from Libya and that she Hated Carteer (sic) and the US of A. and that was that. Since then I’ve met a few Palestinians with their universal lack of logic and hateful rhetoric and quite a number of Iranians who don’t give a damn any more about the Islam they fled and just want to be left alone to live as free men and women, i.e. as Americans.
Now, my town is getting quite a population of Moroccans and every one that I’ve met is pretty cool.

Are my anecdotes meaningful? Maybe. Universally applicable? Let’s hope not.

121 DaddyG  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:46:20am

re: #96 joncelli

And, of course, never have sex with a woman crazier than you are.

Wait a minute, if she’s married to me then she must be crazier than I am… what a dilemma.

There is a great joke from a comedian I saw on Comedy Central a few weeks back. He said if your significant other’s family is crazy and you think you got the “good one” think again. You just got a big old time release capsule of crazy.

122 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:46:24am

re: #117 Ben Hur

Ah! Thanks. Forgot that they are in NATO.

IT’s the EU Membership question that has Sarkozy and Merkel against THE ONE.

And all the “troops’ they are sending to Afghanistan?

123 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:46:30am

re: #100 Pastorius

The First Amendment says,

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

In my opinion, that is an absolute protection of, what we now call, the Freedom of Conscience.

In other words, the freedom to choose which religion one will adhere to.

And in my opinion, I don’t care if we have that freedom or not, there is no need to tie Obama’s profession of Christianity with our First Amendment.

You’re trying to say, yea, he has the RIGHT to say it, but you don’t believe it.

Why don’t you just say what you mean. Or I’ll ask you straight out, do you believe that Obama is a Christian as he professes it?

124 Shug  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:46:37am

re: #119 MandyManners

Or, up a rope.

up a windy rope

125 Ben Hur  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:46:43am

When was the last time you looked?

Really.

126 Pastorius  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:46:53am

#77 sattv4u2 ,
You said; if you are so concerned with the issue of muslims stoning apostates, why don’t you have that converstaion with your “personal friends with people who are Muslims and also with many people who come from Muslim countries.” ?

Believe me, I have asked my friends who are from Muslim countries. My wife is from Mindanao, Phillipines. Her family was chased out of the Phillipines for being Christians. My friend Romik is an Armenian who lived in what he calls “Persia” until it became Iran in 1979. His relatives are now having trouble with the people in the “suburbs of Paris.” My neighbor was kidnapped by Muslims in Morocco. Another neighbor Sarkis Takesian was an Armenian whose family had experience with the Armenian genocide. (You can look that up on Amazon).

I could go on. I have friends from all over the world.

Thing is, the reason I don’t ask my Muslim friends about it is because as individuals, they have no reason to speak up. It’s a free country. But, when one decides to become the leader of the most powerful nation on the face of the Earth, I think it becomes incumbent upon one to speak up and testify on that which one knows to be true.

127 yesandno  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:47:15am

I do hate it when people apologize for religious slights that are not religious. It is ideological Islam that is the problem…otherwise the outrage over the initial portrayal of the cartoons would have occurred with the original publication, not some time after they were able to rally the troops.

That said, had it been actually about offending a religion, then the apology falls far short…but then it was probably meant to.

128 CIA Reject  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:47:22am

re: #107 Nevergiveup

What’s on the list from that movie “Vertical Limit”

Dunno - I’ve never see that movie.

But I have lost money in a card game to a guy called “Doc” and I did get my *ss beat by a guy called “Tiny”.

129 victor_yugo  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:47:39am

re: #108 sattv4u2

the two are unrelated

Huh?

What?

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot are you talking about?

130 CyanSnowHawk  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:47:47am

re: #21 Pastorius

There are too many good reasons to confront Obama, this “Is he a muslim” thing is just a distracting tangent.

There are so many tangential issues, in fact, that if you drew a diagram of it, it would look like a Spirograph creation.

131 VioletTiger  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:48:02am

re: #126 Pastorius

WHAT is your point? Concisely, please.

132 Pastorius  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:48:37am

108 sattv4u2

re: #100 Pastorius

The First Amendment says,

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

In my opinion, that is an absolute protection of, what we now call, the Freedom of Conscience.

In other words, the freedom to choose which religion one will adhere to.

the two are unrelated

Really? Are they? If so, I am unaware of the legality of that. I’m not shitting you. I really do believe the First Amendment means that we have the Freedom to choose our religion.

Am I incorrect on that?

133 Ben Hur  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:48:54am

re: #122 Nevergiveup

And all the “troops’ they are sending to Afghanistan?

That’s because George Bush is a bully.

134 MandyManners  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:48:58am

re: #126 Pastorius

I think it becomes incumbent upon one to speak up and testify on that which one knows to be true.

You might think so but, there is no law in the United States of America which demands it.

135 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:49:06am

Burress’ grievance nets $1M from Giants

[Link: sports.espn.go.com…]

Will that buy you a nicer jail cell?

136 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:49:17am

re: #115 Big Steve

Yes and Turkey is an extremely important member of NATO give proximity to the Bear and the Islamic world.

It worked very well when the Military kept the politicians to the original, secular ideal Ataturk established.
Its only since that islamist Erdogan came to power that things have taken a very decided turn for the worse in Turkey.
That is one reason why the EU is not keen to give Turkey full EU membership …

137 Pastorius  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:49:31am

Cyan Snow Hawk,
Your answer seems legit to me (and I dinged you up for it). However, I don’t agree.

138 victor_yugo  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:50:15am

re: #126 Pastorius

But, when one decides to become the leader of the most powerful nation on the face of the Earth, I think it becomes incumbent upon one to speak up and testify on that which one knows to be true.

Right there’s your problem. You assume 0bama has a sense of objective truth, instead of convenience.

139 brookly red  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:50:20am

re: #135 Nevergiveup

room service…

140 J.D.  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:50:37am

Rightly or wrongly, people sometimes feel insulted.

Get a helmet.

141 MJ  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:50:39am

Daniel Pipes notes:

“The hoops that Fogh Rasmussen had to jump through to win Ankara’s support can be inferred from his cringe-inducing, dhimmi-like remarks on winning the appointment: “As secretary general of NATO, I will make a very clear outreach to the Muslim world to ensure cooperation and intensify dialogue with the Muslim world. I consider Turkey a very important ally and strategic partner and I will cooperate with them in our endeavors to ensure the best cooperation with Muslim world.”

We appear to be witnessing the emergence not of a robust NATO following the Claes-Aznar model, one leading the fight against radical Islam, but an institution hobbled from within, incapable of standing up to the main strategic threat for fear of offending a member government.

Nor is Islamism NATO’s only problem with Turkey. In what is emerging as a Middle Eastern cold war, with Tehran leading one faction and Riyadh the other, Ankara has repeatedly sided with the former – hosting Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, advocating for Iran’s nuclear program, developing an Iranian oil field, transferring Iranian arms to Hezbollah, openly supporting Hamas, viciously condemning Israel, and turning Turkish public opinion against the United States”.


[Link: www.danielpipes.org…]

142 jcm  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:50:42am

re: #126 Pastorius

My friend Romik is an Armenian who lived in what he calls “Persia” until it became Iran in 1979.

Persian became Iran in 1935.

143 Ben Hur  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:50:59am

Ataturk can also be used to compliment a Turkish person.

144 DaddyG  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:51:01am

re: #126 Pastorius

But, when one decides to become the leader of the most powerful nation on the face of the Earth, I think it becomes incumbent upon one to speak up and testify on that which one knows to be true.

Why? the President of the United States is as free to disclose or not disclose his private beliefs and faith as any other free citizen. We lost a great candidate in Romney because too many others felt a religious test was appropriate during the primaries.

I am much more concerned with the public actions of my president than his beliefs. He can worship Skittle pooping Unicorns for all I care as long as he defends this country from invasion and upholds the constitution.

145 Walter L. Newton  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:51:18am

re: #137 Pastorius

Would you please use the quote and reply functions that Charles worked so hard on to program for your use. Your cut and pasting of comments and your formatting makes it very difficult to understand what your answer is or the original comment is.

Please.

146 Nevergiveup  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:51:24am

re: #139 brookly red

room service…

From Bubba? That’s some tip he is gonna demand?

147 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:51:25am

re: #117 Ben Hur

Ah! Thanks. Forgot that they are in NATO.

IT’s the EU Membership question that has Sarkozy and Merkel against THE ONE.

Yes, well - there are enough muslims, and fundamentalist muslims in France and Germany already. Economical reasons aside - is it really a good idea to have a more and more islamic as opposed to secular Turkey become the largest state in the EU?

148 lawhawk  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:51:33am

re: #74 MJ

Check out this statement issued by the State Department:

Robert Wood

Acting Department Spokesman, Office of the Spokesman

Bureau of Public Affairs

Washington, DC

April 6, 2009

Special Envoy Mitchell will travel to the Middle East beginning April 13 to advance the goal of the two-state solution and comprehensive peace in the region. He is scheduled to meet with key officials in Israel and the Palestinian territories, Egypt, the Gulf, and North Africa. Special Envoy Mitchell’s aim for this trip is to discuss next steps in moving the parties toward a lasting peace that will benefit all the people of the region.

They’re not even going to bother with hearing any objections from the Israelis. It’s Obama’s way or we’ll piss on you.

It’s the same diplobabble that we’ve seen from the DC diplomats for a generation. They want a two-state solution, all while ignoring that one of the two sides (the Palestinians) do not want to live alongside Israel, but would rather want it seen destroyed and will stop at nothing to achieve that goal.

Any diplomatic effort on this front is doomed to failure because the Palestinians will see to it that it fails, but that the blame falls on Israel.

149 J.D.  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:51:49am

re: #121 DaddyG

Wait a minute, if she’s married to me then she must be crazier than I am… what a dilemma.


Upding.

150 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:52:04am

re: #129 victor_yugo

Huh?

What?

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot are you talking about?

The 1st amendment dictates that the gov’t sponsers no 1 religion over another. It also states that if you wanted to start the Religion Of Victor Yugo, it is to stay out of it (with the usual caveats, of course)

What it does NOt say is that you are compelled to choose a religion and publicly profess which it is.
That was the gist of Pastorious’s call for Obama vis a vis muslim/ christianity

151 MandyManners  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:52:29am

;..but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.

Article Six.

152 J.D.  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:52:40am

re: #143 Ben Hur

Ataturk can also be used to compliment a Turkish person.

True.

153 MJ  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:53:29am

re: #136 yma o hyd

It worked very well when the Military kept the politicians to the original, secular ideal Ataturk established.
Its only since that islamist Erdogan came to power that things have taken a very decided turn for the worse in Turkey.
That is one reason why the EU is not keen to give Turkey full EU membership …

Yes. But both Bush and Obama are pushing for Turkey to become a full member of the EU. The French basically told Obama to butt out but of course the MSM will not report that in any depth.

154 Zimriel  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:53:57am

re: #21 Pastorius

However, please do me a favor and answer these questions:

Ooh! Pick me! Pick me!

1) Do you acknowledge that Obama is a Muslim by Muslim law - as his father was a Muslim? - (by American law he is what he says he is, a Christian)

Possibly. By Rabbinic law I’m a Jew. (Unless the Essenes were right all along, which would suck for our Jewish lizards. But I digress.) I guess that makes me part of the Zionist Lobby! BECAUSE OF THE DUAL LOYALTY!

2) Do you acknowledge that Obama knows that he is a Muslim by Islamic law?

As above, who cares, other than lunatics?

3) Do you think it is incumbent upon him, as a defender of human rights, and the most powerful man in the world, to testify personally against the stoning of apostates?

I’m agreed on that.

4) Do you acknowledge that the right has a legitimate reason to question Obama’s possible allegiance to Islam, in that he was a member of a church which honored “The Reverend Louis Farrakhan” on more than one occasion?

Nope. The Right has the legitimate reason to criticise Obama as a member of a hateful (and heretical, In My Humble Papist Opinion) Christian church. The Muslim connexion is a total sideshow, cooked up to make Obama into some kind of foreign Other, and to feed the “Red Dawn” fantasies of extremists. It is stupid, and it is unhealthy, and it is a hazard to your character.

155 Kenneth  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:56:04am

Syrian Man Disguised as Aljazeera Reporter Arrested In Obama Murder Plot


As United States president Barack Obama began an official visit to Turkey on Monday, reports surfaced that a Syrian man was arrested in Istanbul in connection with a plot to kill him. The man - who sought to disguise himself as a journalist for the Arab TV network Al-Jazeera - managed to obtain press accreditation and allegedly planned to stab the US president with a knife, said Saudi daily al-Watan.

The Saudi daily contacted Al-Jazeera’s bureau in the Turkish capital Ankara and spoke with the bureau’s director Yusuf al-Sharif who claimed the Syrian man never worked with Al-Jazeera.

The suspect was arrested last Friday in Istanbul, where he had been permanently living for a number of years. After his arrest, al-Watan said he confessed to having planned Obama’s murder and that in case he failed, there were three other accomplices that would carry out the assassination.

156 victor_yugo  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:56:13am

re: #150 sattv4u2

The 1st amendment dictates that the gov’t sponsers no 1 religion over another. It also states that if you wanted to start the Religion Of Victor Yugo, it is to stay out of it (with the usual caveats, of course)

What it does NOt say is that you are compelled to choose a religion and publicly profess which it is.
That was the gist of Pastorious’s call for Obama vis a vis muslim/ christianity

Oh, that’s a good back-pedal.

You highlighted two sections of his #100, and then said they had nothing to do with each other.

My advice to you: PIYF.

157 alegrias  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:56:29am

I bet Obama twisted Mr. Rasmussen’s arm severely to get him to recant.

Rasmussen was a staunch ally of President Bush in the war against terror, sent troops to Iraq, and stood firm against the crazy islamists in his own country, who tried to inflame a global cartoonish war. Mullah Krekar the welfare cheat living in Denmark, tried to stoke the flames against the country that took him and his family in and fed & clothed this islamist creep.

Pres. Obama appeased the islamists and gave Turkey 3 high level appointments in NATO by extorting Mr. Rasmussen to apologize.

For the umpteenth time in under 75 days, yuck, Mr. President.

158 yma o hyd  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:56:40am

re: #153 MJ

Yes. But both Bush and Obama are pushing for Turkey to become a full member of the EU. The French basically told Obama to butt out but of course the MSM will not report that in any depth.

Exactly - even the British MFM don’t seem to grasp why having Turkey as EU member is not a good idea.
Its not about Sarkozy and Merkel dissing PB0 - its because both have huge problems, especially Germany, with fundamentalist muslims in their own countries.
Journalists and politicians from ‘far away’ do tend to overlook these little problems, like having the largest country in the EU being an islamic country … and thats without even taking the economical difficulties into account.

159 John  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:56:42am

Until we all firmly convince ourselves that we as individuals know better how to live our lives than does the State, we will continually hear this sort of claptrap from B. O. et al. It is Islamofascism, the kind where government and religion are one, that we fear and rightly so.
There probably have been instances where Islam has benefited others, but that’s not the problem. It’s Islamofascism that killed on 9/11, and it’s Islamofascism that continues to threaten everything that makes the West free, including liberty itself. Not that B. O. has any particular love for liberty. He believes in Socialism, yet another religion.

160 victor_yugo  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:59:00am

re: #155 Kenneth

Syrian Man Disguised as Aljazeera Reporter Arrested In Obama Murder Plot

Their first clue: Al-Jizz has no “reporters,” and it isn’t a “news” network.

161 sattv4u2  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 10:59:28am

re: #156 victor_yugo

Oh, that’s a good back-pedal.

You highlighted two sections of his #100, and then said they had nothing to do with each other.

My advice to you: PIYF.

scroll further back. His entire theory is based on Obama’s “muslimism”. He wants Obama to denounce, renounce and confront Islam. He wants Obama govern ‘christian” as to prove his loyalty to Christianity.
My answers to him reflected that. Mine to you was no backpeddle, but a caltification of the discussion with him

162 yesandno  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 11:03:49am

re: #153 MJ

Yes. But both Bush and Obama are pushing for Turkey to become a full member of the EU. The French basically told Obama to butt out but of course the MSM will not report that in any depth.

The Turks are not European….not in fact, not in mindset. This expansion has nothing to do with preserving the European culture but just the European economic base. This is a mistake…but then the whole concept of European Union is a mistake to my way of thinking.

163 Pastorius  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 11:11:46am

# 150 sattv4u2,
Yes, you are right, Obama is not compelled to state his beliefs vis a vis religion. However, in my opinion, it is morally incumbent upon him to do so, as he is, technically speaking, an apostate of Islam.

164 Peter_P3  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 11:14:50am

Daniels Pipes is way off on this one.

Mr. Rasmussens statement was no way near an apology for the cartoons. Seems to me that a lot of people can’t read…

Anyway his name is pronounced “Foe” and believe me - he is a friend of the free world. Just ask your former pres Bush.

165 Pastorius  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 11:16:18am

Zimriel,
You said: The Muslim connexion is a total sideshow, cooked up to make Obama into some kind of foreign Other, and to feed the “Red Dawn” fantasies of extremists. It is stupid, and it is unhealthy, and it is a hazard to your character.

I reply: Well, that seems like a reasonable answer to me. I disagree. I certainly do NOT agree that it is a hazard to my character to point out the truth. By Islamic law Obama is a Muslim. That is the truth.

And, the point I am trying to get at here is, I believe it is morally incumbent upon him to speak up about his “Apostasy”, because as the leader of the Free World, he is the leading spokesman for Human Rights.

And, the Islamic doctrine of killing apostates is a central issue of our time.

166 Zimriel  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 11:17:41am

re: #162 yesandno

The Turks are not European….not in fact, not in mindset. This expansion has nothing to do with preserving the European culture but just the European economic base. This is a mistake…but then the whole concept of European Union is a mistake to my way of thinking.

Oh, let’s not be afraid of bringing culture into it. Anatolia was “Asia” and “barbarian” even to the Greeks, even when they were speaking Indo-European languages like Lydian, maybe even when they were speaking Hittite. It’s not racial.

It’s a function of geography. Regimes change, peoples migrate, and the land remains the same. Anatolia is too close to Syria, and it is mountainous, and like Russians they have millennia of experience with petty despotism. Unlike Russians Anatolians also go for religious enthusiasm. Those habits won’t be broken by the EU, which is also rife with petty despotism.

167 KingKenrod  Mon, Apr 6, 2009 11:24:56am

Rasmussen’s comments are in line with things he has said in the past. Here is an excerpt from a CNN interview in 2006:

BLITZER: Looking back on this crisis, it started back in September when this newspaper in Denmark published these 12 cartoons. Looking back, what would you have done differently as prime minister of Denmark, if anything?

RASMUSSEN: Well, I don’t think we would have done anything differently.

I would like to remind you that the cartoons were published in a free and independent newspaper and, of course, neither the Danish government nor the Danish people can be held responsible for what is published in an independent newspaper.

But I would also like to remind you that the newspaper has apologized to the Muslim world for the events caused by the drawing.

BLITZER: What about the government of Denmark? Is an apology forthcoming? Should there be an apology by your government?

RASMUSSEN: As I said before, neither the government, nor the Danish people, can be held responsible for what is published in a free and independent newspaper.

However, I have made it clear that neither the Danish government, nor the Danish people have any intention whatsoever to insult Muslims or any other religious community in the world and I am also saying that I am deeply distressed that many Muslims have seen the cartoons and the defamation of the prophet Mohammed.

168 renagle  Tue, Apr 7, 2009 5:21:11am

to quote re: #20 Occasional Reader

As I recall, the Muslim cleric who paraded the cartoons around the Muslim world in order to incite violence actually added a number of cartoons himself, in order to maximally inflame everyone and trigger the greatest possible violence. One of his additions depicted Mohammed having sex with a dog.

I would agree that a Muslim cleric who draws a cartoon of Mohammed having sex with a dog, and then goes around asking other Muslims to look at it, may have some apologizing to do.

You don’t have to worry about that Palestinian POS Abu Laban anymore. He’s rotting in hell after dying of cancer in 2007.

[Link: www.nytimes.com…]


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